From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 02:30:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA17961; Thu, 1 May 1997 02:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 02:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970501022910.2d9f99aa@holly.colostate.edu> X-Sender: trex@holly.colostate.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 02:29:10 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Thomas A. Rice" Subject: Researches of Burr In-Reply-To: <199704280416.VAA00176@mx1.eskimo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"R8cw3.0.XO4.QA6Qp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2880 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greetings to All, Is anyone aware of and have information pertaining to the research of Harold Saxton Burr? A reference is found in _The Secret Life of Plants_, page 195. Anyone with information, or comments concerning the above writting, please contact me directly. Sincerely, Thomas A. Rice From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 02:36:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA00797 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 1 May 1997 02:36:30 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 02:36:30 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Thu May 1 02:36:27 1997 Received: from hil-img-8.compuserve.com (hil-img-8.compuserve.com [149.174.177.138]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA00588 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 02:36:27 -0700 Received: by hil-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id FAA03808; Thu, 1 May 1997 05:35:56 -0400 Old-Date: 01 May 97 00:28:44 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970501042843_515664.456256_JHN36-47@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 18 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Researches of Burr Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id FAA29321; Thu, 1 May 1997 05:30:32 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA17960; Thu, 1 May 1997 02:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 02:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970501022910.2d9f99aa@holly.colostate.edu> X-Sender: trex@holly.colostate.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 02:29:10 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Thomas A. Rice" Subject: Researches of Burr In-Reply-To: <199704280416.VAA00176@mx1.eskimo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"R8cw3.0.XO4.QA6Qp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2880 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Greetings to All, Is anyone aware of and have information pertaining to the research of Harold Saxton Burr? A reference is found in _The Secret Life of Plants_, page 195. Anyone with information, or comments concerning the above writting, please contact me directly. Sincerely, Thomas A. Rice From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 03:03:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA19104; Thu, 1 May 1997 03:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 03:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970501030251.00a60814@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 03:02:52 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"xPUSx.0.Pg4.if6Qp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2881 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have confirmed Greg's observation some time age experimentally. With 10ohm air core coil, 0.05ohm current sensing resistor and a constant voltage power supply, the voltage drop across the current sensing resistor indeed decreased markedly while a non-conductive ferrite core approached the coil. Note: the voltage across the current-sensing resistor represented the current flowing through the coil. I find the above to be as expected because the product [0.5LI^2] expressing the total electrical energy stored by the coil system will have to be equal before and after the approach of the ferrite core. Since the [L] is increased significantly upon the approach of the core, the [I] will have decrease accordingly to keep the [0.5LI^2] product constant (ie. [L] 10,000 increase ... [I] 100 decrease) This whole situation can be greatly simplified if you consider a closed coil WITHOUT a power supply, with zero resistance. An established current circulating through such coil will continue forever since there is no resistance to dissipate it as heat. Thus no unnecessary complications involving the balance of energy provided by an external power supply VERSUS the energy dissipated in the coil's resistance. The time factor also disappears and the rate of change dI/dt and dL/dt become IRRELEVANT in a closed coil with zero resistance. Regarding the constant voltage VS. constant current power supply, the issue is very simple: since the electric energy stored in the coil tends to be kept constant by the coil's inductance the product [EI] (a.k.a. VI) integrated over the coil's charge/discharge time will have to remain constant, thus [I] will have to decrease if the [E] is forcefully kept constant ***in order to compensate*** for coil's increased charge/discharge integration time, caused by increased [L] as a result of approaching ferrite core with high permeability. The situation where [E] is kept constant and [I] allowed to vary, is analogous. I dare to state that I expect the coil's stored electrical energy [0.5LI^2] be the same before and after the approach of the ferrite core. At 06:49 AM 4/28/97 -0700, you wrote: >Greg Watson wrote: > >> Hold supply voltage constant and supply current DROPS as the core is >> attracted. >> >> Hold supply current constant and the supply voltage DROPS as the core is >> attracted. >> >> Don't believe me? TRY it yourself! > >Curious, Greg. > >I am going by the formula V = LdI/dt + IdL/dt. The first partial will be >zero under constant current conditions, which reduces the formula to V = >IdL/dt which says the voltage across the inductor will increase as the >rate of change of inductance which, in this case, will be positive >because the rod is moving into the coil increasing the inductance. But >you say the voltage across the inductor will DROP. Why? > >This formula says the overall loop voltage will have to increase, ie >driving force within the constant current power supply will have to >increase (or loop resistance decrease), in order to overcome the >positive going EMF induced across the inductor to maintain constant >current. Thus work is done within the power supply to maintain constant >current. The actual work done is VxI where V is the driving voltaage >within the power supply and I is the current plowing in the constant >current loop. > >Correct? > >Maxwell. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 03:08:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA04207 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 1 May 1997 03:08:33 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 03:08:33 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Thu May 1 03:08:30 1997 Received: from hil-img-3.compuserve.com (hil-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.177.133]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA03994 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 03:08:29 -0700 Received: by hil-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id GAA04012; Thu, 1 May 1997 06:07:58 -0400 Old-Date: 01 May 97 06:02:28 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970501100227_515664.456256_CHU68-20@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 19 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by hil-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id GAA03576; Thu, 1 May 1997 06:03:51 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA19103; Thu, 1 May 1997 03:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 03:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970501030251.00a60814@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 03:02:52 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: PARAMETRIC POWER CONVERSION Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"xPUSx.0.Pg4.if6Qp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2881 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have confirmed Greg's observation some time age experimentally. With 10ohm air core coil, 0.05ohm current sensing resistor and a constant voltage power supply, the voltage drop across the current sensing resistor indeed decreased markedly while a non-conductive ferrite core approached the coil. Note: the voltage across the current-sensing resistor represented the current flowing through the coil. I find the above to be as expected because the product [0.5LI^2] expressing the total electrical energy stored by the coil system will have to be equal before and after the approach of the ferrite core. Since the [L] is increased significantly upon the approach of the core, the [I] will have decrease accordingly to keep the [0.5LI^2] product constant (ie. [L] 10,000 increase ... [I] 100 decrease) This whole situation can be greatly simplified if you consider a closed coil WITHOUT a power supply, with zero resistance. An established current circulating through such coil will continue forever since there is no resistance to dissipate it as heat. Thus no unnecessary complications involving the balance of energy provided by an external power supply VERSUS the energy dissipated in the coil's resistance. The time factor also disappears and the rate of change dI/dt and dL/dt become IRRELEVANT in a closed coil with zero resistance. Regarding the constant voltage VS. constant current power supply, the issue is very simple: since the electric energy stored in the coil tends to be kept constant by the coil's inductance the product [EI] (a.k.a. VI) integrated over the coil's charge/discharge time will have to remain constant, thus [I] will have to decrease if the [E] is forcefully kept constant ***in order to compensate*** for coil's increased charge/discharge integration time, caused by increased [L] as a result of approaching ferrite core with high permeability. The situation where [E] is kept constant and [I] allowed to vary, is analogous. I dare to state that I expect the coil's stored electrical energy [0.5LI^2] be the same before and after the approach of the ferrite core. At 06:49 AM 4/28/97 -0700, you wrote: >Greg Watson wrote: > >> Hold supply voltage constant and supply current DROPS as the core is >> attracted. >> >> Hold supply current constant and the supply voltage DROPS as the core is >> attracted. >> >> Don't believe me? TRY it yourself! > >Curious, Greg. > >I am going by the formula V = LdI/dt + IdL/dt. The first partial will be >zero under constant current conditions, which reduces the formula to V = >IdL/dt which says the voltage across the inductor will increase as the >rate of change of inductance which, in this case, will be positive >because the rod is moving into the coil increasing the inductance. But >you say the voltage across the inductor will DROP. Why? > >This formula says the overall loop voltage will have to increase, ie >driving force within the constant current power supply will have to >increase (or loop resistance decrease), in order to overcome the >positive going EMF induced across the inductor to maintain constant >current. Thus work is done within the power supply to maintain constant >current. The actual work done is VxI where V is the driving voltaage >within the power supply and I is the current plowing in the constant >current loop. > >Correct? > >Maxwell. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 03:18:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA19887; Thu, 1 May 1997 03:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 03:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 14:36:55 +0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: otecnor@emirates.net.ae (otecnor) Subject: Re: Researches of Burr Resent-Message-ID: <"cAKNp1.0.cs4.8u6Qp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2882 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Regarding Harold saxton Burr, you should be able to find something on : Orgone Biophysical Research Laboratory Greensprings Research and Educational Center PO Box 1148, Ashland, Oregon 97520 USA telephone/fax (541) 552-0118 e-mail: demeo@mind.net Internet Web Site for OBRL: http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm I think James hold a compilation or extract of H.S.B works With Best Regards >Greetings to All, > Is anyone aware of and have information pertaining to the research of >Harold Saxton Burr? A reference is found in _The Secret Life of Plants_, >page 195. Anyone with information, or comments concerning the above >writting, please contact me directly. > > Sincerely, > Thomas A. Rice FRANCK ROUSSEL http://www.infoemirates.com/otecnor otecnor@emirates.net.ae Tel: -- 971 4 341 335 Fax: -- 971 4 341 271 Po box 4613 Dubai United Arab Emirates Time: GMT + 4 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 03:25:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA20391 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 1 May 1997 03:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 03:25:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Thu May 1 03:25:04 1997 Received: from hil-img-10.compuserve.com (hil-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.177.140]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA20198 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 03:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id GAA28137; Thu, 1 May 1997 06:24:06 -0400 Old-Date: 01 May 97 01:17:17 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970501051716_515664.456256_CHU65-46@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 20 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Researches of Burr Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id GAA07266; Thu, 1 May 1997 06:19:17 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA19886; Thu, 1 May 1997 03:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 03:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 14:36:55 +0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: otecnor@emirates.net.ae (otecnor) Subject: Re: Researches of Burr Resent-Message-ID: <"cAKNp1.0.cs4.8u6Qp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2882 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, Regarding Harold saxton Burr, you should be able to find something on : Orgone Biophysical Research Laboratory Greensprings Research and Educational Center PO Box 1148, Ashland, Oregon 97520 USA telephone/fax (541) 552-0118 e-mail: demeo@mind.net Internet Web Site for OBRL: http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm I think James hold a compilation or extract of H.S.B works With Best Regards >Greetings to All, > Is anyone aware of and have information pertaining to the research of >Harold Saxton Burr? A reference is found in _The Secret Life of Plants_, >page 195. Anyone with information, or comments concerning the above >writting, please contact me directly. > > Sincerely, > Thomas A. Rice FRANCK ROUSSEL http://www.infoemirates.com/otecnor otecnor@emirates.net.ae Tel: -- 971 4 341 335 Fax: -- 971 4 341 271 Po box 4613 Dubai United Arab Emirates Time: GMT + 4 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 03:32:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA20751; Thu, 1 May 1997 03:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 03:32:09 -0700 (PDT) From: mindtech@om.com.au Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 20:16:46 +1000 Message-Id: <9705011016.AB22749@atom.om.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@om.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: faster than light Resent-Message-ID: <"_EZtX3.0.845.d47Qp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2883 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Seekers of the bizarre and unconventional who find solice in seeing the "laws" of physics overtuned, note the article on page 187 in the March 1997 issue of "Electronic World". It describes the properties of "elves", a "new" type of stratospheric lightning which originates as a powerful EMP pulse advancing radially from a conventional lightning stroke. Upon encountering the electrically charged ionosphere (atoms), an expanding ring of superluminal light is generated. To quote: "The pulse travels at the speed of light, with the first part of the wave front hitting the ionosphere as a small ring above the lightning stroke. This expands outward as portions of the pulse travel longer and longer distances strike the ionosphere. The ring expands _faster than the speed of light_ for the same reason that waves, when striking the beach at an angle, travel along the shore at a faster speed than the waves move through the water. Because of the ring's superluminal expansion rate, light from its newer parts actually reaches the (measuring) instrument before the light from the older parts ..." Now, what about those faster than light electrons? PETER M. NIELSEN >< Ph: 61 66 85 5967 - Fax: 61 66 86 3149 - mindtech@om.com.au Electronics Engineer <> PO Box 87, Byron Bay NSW 2481 AUSTRALIA From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 03:39:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA05683 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 1 May 1997 03:39:38 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 03:39:38 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Thu May 1 03:39:36 1997 Received: from dub-img-1.compuserve.com (dub-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.206.131]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA05465 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 03:39:35 -0700 Received: by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id GAA19633; Thu, 1 May 1997 06:39:05 -0400 Old-Date: 01 May 97 01:30:38 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970501053037_515664.456256_CHU73-9@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 21 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 faster than light Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id GAA13336; Thu, 1 May 1997 06:32:38 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA20750; Thu, 1 May 1997 03:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 03:32:09 -0700 (PDT) From: mindtech@om.com.au Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 20:16:46 +1000 Message-Id: <9705011016.AB22749@atom.om.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@om.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: faster than light Resent-Message-ID: <"_EZtX3.0.845.d47Qp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2883 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Seekers of the bizarre and unconventional who find solice in seeing the "laws" of physics overtuned, note the article on page 187 in the March 1997 issue of "Electronic World". It describes the properties of "elves", a "new" type of stratospheric lightning which originates as a powerful EMP pulse advancing radially from a conventional lightning stroke. Upon encountering the electrically charged ionosphere (atoms), an expanding ring of superluminal light is generated. To quote: "The pulse travels at the speed of light, with the first part of the wave front hitting the ionosphere as a small ring above the lightning stroke. This expands outward as portions of the pulse travel longer and longer distances strike the ionosphere. The ring expands _faster than the speed of light_ for the same reason that waves, when striking the beach at an angle, travel along the shore at a faster speed than the waves move through the water. Because of the ring's superluminal expansion rate, light from its newer parts actually reaches the (measuring) instrument before the light from the older parts ..." Now, what about those faster than light electrons? PETER M. NIELSEN >< Ph: 61 66 85 5967 - Fax: 61 66 86 3149 - mindtech@om.com.au Electronics Engineer <> PO Box 87, Byron Bay NSW 2481 AUSTRALIA From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 03:43:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA05865; Thu, 1 May 1997 03:42:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 03:42:57 -0700 Message-ID: <3368720F.7327@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 20:05:59 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnetic Forces Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------72AC2D2360E6" Resent-Message-ID: <"wi6h4.0.ER1.lE7Qp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2884 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------72AC2D2360E6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I have been asked by several readers about the relative forces of magnets in various configurations. I ran a series of spacing verus magnet configuration. The configurations I tested were : 1) FF SN (Ferrite to magnet attraction forces) 2) SN SN (2 magnets in attraction) 3) NS SN (2 magnets in opposition) The sizes of the test samples were the same. The magnet material as ceramic. The ferrite was steel. The results are attached. The result is not what I would have expected. I expected the opposing results to be the greatest. Just goes to show that magnets do strange things. Suspect the weak opposing results were due to the magnets being driven down their B/H curves and reducing their flux output. Enjoy. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. 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ZUsB5lgSJlT201y6lWEiUVWylGLOkWBGpl9SJvHwJVYciVPuUtNdpiViIuXnPaaVPaVSNiah QddnGoVp1l1d9mVRlmZbDqVlqtpsjuZbxWVtfpJscmZW5OZe8hNWFOZtcmYS9ZNw7mZw9mZn uiVzNqdzPucnBQQAOw== --------------72AC2D2360E6-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 03:53:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA21871; Thu, 1 May 1997 03:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 03:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33687557.2343@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 20:19:59 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robin van Spaandonk CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest References: <33672D92.35C@microtronics.com.au> <336d2019.25355493@mail.eisa.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qq0973.0.ZL5.jO7Qp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2885 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:01:30 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: > [snip] > >It is my intention for the basic technology of the unit to be available > >to any and all by way of a upfront fee (depending on usage) and royality > >fee (based on power generated). Everything from a home generator to a > >power station. > Hi Greg, > > If by "based on power generated" you mean "based on power generating > capacity", then I wish you well. This is my intent. > However I would consider any attempt > to earn ongoing royalties from the "sale" of any energy generated to > be an example of the worst kind of ripoff. Please make your intentions > clear. I want the technology to be available to all. I never expected ANY mpney from the generation of power. The license fee will be based on that you wish to do. IE any user who wishes to build a unit would pay a one time fee for use of the technology and a ongoing fee based on the size and number of generators they wish to build. I have NEVER had any intention to "TAX" energy generation. > "Free-energy" has always been a dream of mine, and of many > others, yourself included (I suspect). It is my dream too................ > To now want to charge for it > would bear witness to greed beyond measure, because the profits from > manufacturing and sale of the equipment alone would make you the > richest man on earth anyway. Rich to the point you wouldn't know what > to do with the money. I plan to have many others who will share in the dream. I am not turned on by money. Never have been. > PS You can see by the effect this has on me, what effect it may also > have on others. Hi Robin, I thank you for being so straight. Sorry for not being clearer. I have reposted your post. I think it is important to share your concerns with others. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 05:27:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA27138; Thu, 1 May 1997 05:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 05:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705011228.IAA24896@ns.bluegrass.net> From: "SAM GORDON" To: Subject: Re: faster than light Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 08:29:06 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GZkXZ1.0.xd6.-m8Qp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2886 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have seen this interesting accurance on a few weather videos studing lightning but I believe that these phenominon where called sprites. There was some speculation about a year ago on the web and news groups web that the science community wanted research done in the belief that in some way this could be a future source for power. Has anyone any information to back this up?? ---------- > From: mindtech@om.com.au > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: faster than light > Date: Thursday, May 01, 1997 6:16 AM > > Seekers of the bizarre and unconventional who find solice in seeing the > "laws" of physics overtuned, note the article on page 187 in the March 1997 > issue of "Electronic World". > > It describes the properties of "elves", a "new" type of stratospheric > lightning which originates as a powerful EMP pulse advancing radially from a > conventional lightning stroke. Upon encountering the electrically charged > ionosphere (atoms), an expanding ring of superluminal light is generated. > > To quote: > > "The pulse travels at the speed of light, with the first part of the wave > front hitting the ionosphere as a small ring above the lightning stroke. > This expands outward as portions of the pulse travel longer and longer > distances strike the ionosphere. The ring expands _faster than the speed of > light_ for the same reason that waves, when striking the beach at an angle, > travel along the shore at a faster speed than the waves move through the > water. Because of the ring's superluminal expansion rate, light from its > newer parts actually reaches the (measuring) instrument before the light > from the older parts ..." > > Now, what about those faster than light electrons? > > > > PETER M. NIELSEN >< Ph: 61 66 85 5967 - Fax: 61 66 86 3149 - > mindtech@om.com.au > Electronics Engineer <> PO Box 87, Byron Bay NSW 2481 AUSTRALIA > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 05:35:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA28311 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 1 May 1997 05:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 05:35:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Thu May 1 05:34:44 1997 Received: from arl-img-10.compuserve.com (arl-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.217.140]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA28109 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 05:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id IAA04582; Thu, 1 May 1997 08:33:45 -0400 Old-Date: 01 May 97 08:30:31 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970501123030_515664.456256_JHN39-54@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 22 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: faster than light Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id IAA02518; Thu, 1 May 1997 08:29:52 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA27137; Thu, 1 May 1997 05:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 05:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705011228.IAA24896@ns.bluegrass.net> From: "SAM GORDON" To: Subject: Re: faster than light Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 08:29:06 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GZkXZ1.0.xd6.-m8Qp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2886 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have seen this interesting accurance on a few weather videos studing lightning but I believe that these phenominon where called sprites. There was some speculation about a year ago on the web and news groups web that the science community wanted research done in the belief that in some way this could be a future source for power. Has anyone any information to back this up?? ---------- > From: mindtech@om.com.au > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: faster than light > Date: Thursday, May 01, 1997 6:16 AM > > Seekers of the bizarre and unconventional who find solice in seeing the > "laws" of physics overtuned, note the article on page 187 in the March 1997 > issue of "Electronic World". > > It describes the properties of "elves", a "new" type of stratospheric > lightning which originates as a powerful EMP pulse advancing radially from a > conventional lightning stroke. Upon encountering the electrically charged > ionosphere (atoms), an expanding ring of superluminal light is generated. > > To quote: > > "The pulse travels at the speed of light, with the first part of the wave > front hitting the ionosphere as a small ring above the lightning stroke. > This expands outward as portions of the pulse travel longer and longer > distances strike the ionosphere. The ring expands _faster than the speed of > light_ for the same reason that waves, when striking the beach at an angle, > travel along the shore at a faster speed than the waves move through the > water. Because of the ring's superluminal expansion rate, light from its > newer parts actually reaches the (measuring) instrument before the light > from the older parts ..." > > Now, what about those faster than light electrons? > > > > PETER M. NIELSEN >< Ph: 61 66 85 5967 - Fax: 61 66 86 3149 - > mindtech@om.com.au > Electronics Engineer <> PO Box 87, Byron Bay NSW 2481 AUSTRALIA > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 06:49:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA19413; Thu, 1 May 1997 06:49:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 06:49:25 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 08:47:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199705011347.IAA14354@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: faster than light Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"loCul1.0.Dl4.az9Qp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2887 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >Seekers of the bizarre and unconventional who find solice in seeing the >"laws" of physics overtuned, note the article on page 187 in the March 1997 >issue of "Electronic World". > >It describes the properties of "elves", a "new" type of stratospheric >lightning which originates as a powerful EMP pulse advancing radially from a >conventional lightning stroke. Upon encountering the electrically charged >ionosphere (atoms), an expanding ring of superluminal light is generated. Is this the same thing as "Red Sprites and Blue Jets"? Check out http://elf.gi.alaska.edu/sprites.html > >To quote: > >"The pulse travels at the speed of light, with the first part of the wave >front hitting the ionosphere as a small ring above the lightning stroke. >This expands outward as portions of the pulse travel longer and longer >distances strike the ionosphere. The ring expands _faster than the speed of >light_ for the same reason that waves, when striking the beach at an angle, >travel along the shore at a faster speed than the waves move through the >water. Because of the ring's superluminal expansion rate, light from its >newer parts actually reaches the (measuring) instrument before the light >from the older parts ..." > >Now, what about those faster than light electrons? > Yes, it it possible for the wavefront phase to travel faster than the speed of light. This does not mean that the photons themselves are traveling that fast. (Altough it doesn't mean they aren't, either.) This is an interesting phenomenon! > > >PETER M. NIELSEN >< Ph: 61 66 85 5967 - Fax: 61 66 86 3149 - >mindtech@om.com.au >Electronics Engineer <> PO Box 87, Byron Bay NSW 2481 AUSTRALIA Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 07:04:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA21210; Thu, 1 May 1997 07:04:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 07:04:50 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 06:08:55 -0800 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, Robin van Spaandonk From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"VubOG1.0.1B5._BAQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2888 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 8:19 PM 5/1/97, Greg Watson wrote: [snip] > >I want the technology to be available to all. I never expected ANY >mpney from the generation of power. > >The license fee will be based on that you wish to do. IE any user who >wishes to build a unit would pay a one time fee for use of the >technology and a ongoing fee based on the size and number of generators >they wish to build. > [snip] This is all premature isn't it? Until the loop is closed and the experiment independently replicated, there's nothing to sell reputably, is there? Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 07:18:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA08296 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 1 May 1997 07:18:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 07:18:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Thu May 1 07:18:27 1997 Received: from hil-img-3.compuserve.com (hil-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.177.133]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA08094 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 07:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id KAA08836; Thu, 1 May 1997 10:17:29 -0400 Old-Date: 01 May 97 05:08:46 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970501090845_515664.456256_IHJ68-42@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 35 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Expressions of Interest Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id KAA06794; Thu, 1 May 1997 10:10:40 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA21209; Thu, 1 May 1997 07:04:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 07:04:49 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 06:08:55 -0800 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, Robin van Spaandonk From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"VubOG1.0.1B5._BAQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2888 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 8:19 PM 5/1/97, Greg Watson wrote: [snip] > >I want the technology to be available to all. I never expected ANY >mpney from the generation of power. > >The license fee will be based on that you wish to do. IE any user who >wishes to build a unit would pay a one time fee for use of the >technology and a ongoing fee based on the size and number of generators >they wish to build. > [snip] This is all premature isn't it? Until the loop is closed and the experiment independently replicated, there's nothing to sell reputably, is there? Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 07:38:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA24230; Thu, 1 May 1997 07:38:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 07:38:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3368D4D3.4B98@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 10:37:23 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EzYzh.0.Vw5.GhAQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2889 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > This is all premature isn't it? Until the loop is closed and the > experiment independently replicated, there's nothing to sell reputably, is > there? > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner Agreed!!!! Personally, I'd like to hear Bill Beaty's ideas on how this ramp might be operating conventionally. It's interesting to see how little attention his post on this idea generated. How about it Bill? Whats your thinking on this? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 08:19:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA16854; Thu, 1 May 1997 08:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 08:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705011518.IAA16730@mx2.eskimo.com> Date: 01 May 1997 11:11 EDT Sender: "Gene Batten" To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Gene Batten" Subject: re:Magnetic Forces Resent-Message-ID: <"4o-022.0.F74.hHBQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2890 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, Very interesting data. Thanks for sharing it. What are the units on the attached graph? When I detached the graph, there were no units listed on the graph. It would be helpful to know if you are using inches, centemeters, pounds, etc. My guess is that you are using metric units. Could you also share how you obtained this data? I have no reason to doubt it, I just wonder about the relative accuracy. I have always suspected that the attraction and repulsive forces of magnets were not equal, but I never tried to measure it. Your data indicates a rather significant difference between attraction and repulsion forces (if I understand your chart correctly). So, if this information really is what it appears to be, how can we exploit this force difference to do work? Maybe you are already doing this? Regards, Gene Batten mdleb@nortel.ca In message "Magnetic Forces", you write: > Hi All, > > I have been asked by several readers about the relative forces of > magnets in various configurations. > > I ran a series of spacing verus magnet configuration. > > The configurations I tested were : > > 1) FF SN (Ferrite to magnet attraction forces) > > 2) SN SN (2 magnets in attraction) > > 3) NS SN (2 magnets in opposition) > > The sizes of the test samples were the same. The magnet material as > ceramic. The ferrite was steel. > > The results are attached. > > The result is not what I would have expected. I expected the opposing > results to be the greatest. Just goes to show that magnets do strange > things. Suspect the weak opposing results were due to the magnets being > driven down their B/H curves and reducing their flux output. > > Enjoy. > > -- > Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au > Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > 61 18 833 461 Mobile > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 09:57:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA14448; Thu, 1 May 1997 09:57:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 09:57:07 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 11:59:39 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: re: Magnetic Forces Resent-Message-ID: <"e84cY3.0.fX3.YjCQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2891 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Greg, > >Very interesting data. Thanks for sharing it. What are the units on >the attached graph? When I detached the graph, there were no units snip--- >this information really is what it appears to be, how can we exploit >this force difference to do work? > >Maybe you are already doing this? > >Regards, >Gene Batten >mdleb@nortel.ca > snip--- >> >> The result is not what I would have expected. I expected the opposing >> results to be the greatest. Just goes to show that magnets do strange >> things. Suspect the weak opposing results were due to the magnets being >> driven down their B/H curves and reducing their flux output. >> >> Enjoy. >> -- >> Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >> Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >> 61 18 833 461 Mobile Dear List members, With respect to the inequality of Attraction/Repulsion forces --- To quote from page 91 [Chapter 16, GRAVITY, The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman, originally published 1984]: "Section 29-C "The unlike charges will see to obtain the least possible distance between themselves with respect to the two, separate masses; and the like charges will seek to obtain the greatest possible distance between themselves with respect to the two separate masses. [Remember that the charges being simultaneously repelled are also being simultaneously attracted and such charges cannot physically move far from one another.] "Consider the implication of the Inverse-Square Law with respect to the attracting or repelling force of charges. The most dominant forces are those _between_ the charges existing _within_ each separate mass. Consequently, THE ATTRACTION FORCE IS GREATER THAN THE REPULSION FORCE between the two separate masses -- but (as an order of magnitude) _this difference is unimaginably small_. [A simple mathematical analogy demonstrates this "unimaginably small" difference: If we assign to equal attraction and repulsion forces a "unity of 1," then the difference (in the attracting forces being greater than the repulsion forces) would be an extremely small percentage of such "unity of 1," e.g., only .0001.] "Such a small difference is clearly demonstrated by the fact that the attraction force of Gravity (the observed _effect_ of the interaction of unobserved electromagnetic fields comprising Matter) is _extremely less_ than the ("unity of 1") attraction/repulsion forces of _Obvious_ electrical charges as well as those same forces (gyroscopic-action-particles) which comprise magnetic fields or Matter itself. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "As a result of such Unequaling Forces, the ATTRACTION FORCE IS ALWAYS MINUTELY GREATER THAN THE REPULSION FORCE." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Section 29-D. "I hypothesize that the following represents the Law of Gravity with respect to the Inverse-square Law: The difference in the Unequaling Forces (in accordance with the law of distances sought between "like" and "unlike" gyroscopic-action-particles) of the two, above-mentioned masses causes a Force of Gravity to be a very small percentage (example only: .0001 of a "unity of 1") of the equally attracting and repulsion forces having a "unity of 1." [Refer to Section 25-E.] "Such equal forces (with a "unity of 1") represent a balance of all the "negative" and "positive" gyroscopic-action-particles comprising all Matter. [I remind the reader that such "negative" and "positive" gyroscopic-action-particles are actually composed of only one type of gyroscopic-action-entity which appears to move in opposite directions depending upon the frame of reference of the observer.] "As a result of such Unequaling Forces, the ATTRACTION force is always MINUTELY GREATER than the REPULSION force. Such an inequality of forces is still incredibly less than the attraction/repulsion forces of _Obvious_ electric charges or magnetism which have a "unity (force) of 1." "NOTE: For the convenience of expression, I am arbitrarily assigning this "unity (force) of 1" value to electric charges and magnetism in order to provide the reader with some subjective means to distinguish such forces from the very weak gravitational force which would have --- as an order of magnitude --- a value of approximately .0001 based upon the above forces having a value of "1." --- Joseph Newman Posted by: Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html ".... the magnetic field consists of gyroscopic-type particles which are the mechanical essence of E=mc^2 and represent an orderly flow of kinetic energy." --- JOSEPH NEWMAN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 10:05:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA15712 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 1 May 1997 10:05:00 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 10:05:00 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Thu May 1 10:04:55 1997 Received: from hil-img-10.compuserve.com (hil-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.177.140]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA15453 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 10:04:53 -0700 Received: by hil-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id NAA08906; Thu, 1 May 1997 13:04:17 -0400 Old-Date: 01 May 97 12:58:32 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970501165831_515664.456256_JHG46-9@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 34 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 re: Magnetic Forces Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by hil-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id MAA08715; Thu, 1 May 1997 12:59:08 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA14447; Thu, 1 May 1997 09:57:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 09:57:06 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 11:59:39 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: re: Magnetic Forces Resent-Message-ID: <"e84cY3.0.fX3.YjCQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2891 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Greg, > >Very interesting data. Thanks for sharing it. What are the units on >the attached graph? When I detached the graph, there were no units snip--- >this information really is what it appears to be, how can we exploit >this force difference to do work? > >Maybe you are already doing this? > >Regards, >Gene Batten >mdleb@nortel.ca > snip--- >> >> The result is not what I would have expected. I expected the opposing >> results to be the greatest. Just goes to show that magnets do strange >> things. Suspect the weak opposing results were due to the magnets being >> driven down their B/H curves and reducing their flux output. >> >> Enjoy. >> -- >> Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >> Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >> 61 18 833 461 Mobile Dear List members, With respect to the inequality of Attraction/Repulsion forces --- To quote from page 91 [Chapter 16, GRAVITY, The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman, originally published 1984]: "Section 29-C "The unlike charges will see to obtain the least possible distance between themselves with respect to the two, separate masses; and the like charges will seek to obtain the greatest possible distance between themselves with respect to the two separate masses. [Remember that the charges being simultaneously repelled are also being simultaneously attracted and such charges cannot physically move far from one another.] "Consider the implication of the Inverse-Square Law with respect to the attracting or repelling force of charges. The most dominant forces are those _between_ the charges existing _within_ each separate mass. Consequently, THE ATTRACTION FORCE IS GREATER THAN THE REPULSION FORCE between the two separate masses -- but (as an order of magnitude) _this difference is unimaginably small_. [A simple mathematical analogy demonstrates this "unimaginably small" difference: If we assign to equal attraction and repulsion forces a "unity of 1," then the difference (in the attracting forces being greater than the repulsion forces) would be an extremely small percentage of such "unity of 1," e.g., only .0001.] "Such a small difference is clearly demonstrated by the fact that the attraction force of Gravity (the observed _effect_ of the interaction of unobserved electromagnetic fields comprising Matter) is _extremely less_ than the ("unity of 1") attraction/repulsion forces of _Obvious_ electrical charges as well as those same forces (gyroscopic-action-particles) which comprise magnetic fields or Matter itself. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "As a result of such Unequaling Forces, the ATTRACTION FORCE IS ALWAYS MINUTELY GREATER THAN THE REPULSION FORCE." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Section 29-D. "I hypothesize that the following represents the Law of Gravity with respect to the Inverse-square Law: The difference in the Unequaling Forces (in accordance with the law of distances sought between "like" and "unlike" gyroscopic-action-particles) of the two, above-mentioned masses causes a Force of Gravity to be a very small percentage (example only: .0001 of a "unity of 1") of the equally attracting and repulsion forces having a "unity of 1." [Refer to Section 25-E.] "Such equal forces (with a "unity of 1") represent a balance of all the "negative" and "positive" gyroscopic-action-particles comprising all Matter. [I remind the reader that such "negative" and "positive" gyroscopic-action-particles are actually composed of only one type of gyroscopic-action-entity which appears to move in opposite directions depending upon the frame of reference of the observer.] "As a result of such Unequaling Forces, the ATTRACTION force is always MINUTELY GREATER than the REPULSION force. Such an inequality of forces is still incredibly less than the attraction/repulsion forces of _Obvious_ electric charges or magnetism which have a "unity (force) of 1." "NOTE: For the convenience of expression, I am arbitrarily assigning this "unity (force) of 1" value to electric charges and magnetism in order to provide the reader with some subjective means to distinguish such forces from the very weak gravitational force which would have --- as an order of magnitude --- a value of approximately .0001 based upon the above forces having a value of "1." --- Joseph Newman Posted by: Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html ".... the magnetic field consists of gyroscopic-type particles which are the mechanical essence of E=mc^2 and represent an orderly flow of kinetic energy." --- JOSEPH NEWMAN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 12:49:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA27787; Thu, 1 May 1997 12:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 12:49:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705011948.PAA18296@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Tesla Page HAs Been Updated With... To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 15:48:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"A7ISw2.0.0o6.3FFQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2892 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My TESLA BOOKSTORE PAGE HAS BEEN UPDATED! I have many new books and sites as well is some images. If you are looking to learn about Tesla or get a copy of EVERY patient, then this is the place to look. I have many books covering almost every subject about Tesla! Please take a peek at: http://www.frognet.net/~cantino/tesla/tesla.html Andrew Cantino -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 14:11:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA27710; Thu, 1 May 1997 14:11:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 14:11:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3369147A.1432@keelynet.com> Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 15:08:58 -0700 From: Jerry Decker Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Researches of Burr References: <3.0.1.16.19970501022910.2d9f99aa@holly.colostate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LmBMQ2.0.tm6.wRGQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2893 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Thomas! Harold Saxton Burr, editor of a Yale Journal (can't remember on what), discovered what he called an 'electrodynamic field' which is similar to Rupert Sheldrakes 'morphogenetic field' and which appears to be a kind of dynamic and very complex electrical pattern possibly even an 'attenuating Meissner field' (it gets weaker with age). The best book is 'Blueprint for Destiny' written by a fellow named Russell, then there is another book that has 'Life' in the title, but can't recall it, have a copy somewhere around here, will look it up, they were VERY HARD TO FIND, but Burr has been a hero of mine since I was about 16.... He did long term experiments with trees to monitor their electrical fields for many years (I remember something about 30 years for one tree) and developed a means of measuring ovulation in human females by inserting a couple of fingers into a saltwater mixture...the books have details on his many experiments.... Russell postulated two kinds of fields in his book 'Blueprint', an L field (for Life) that actually produced the field (aura) which the body recorded in the form of tissue and the M field (doesn't sound right) but it had to do with the mind being the creator and sustainer of the L field. The idea was that by sustained thought you could alter the L field to produce healing or mutation as desired.....and there are dozens of reports, if not hundreds that verify tissue can experience 'spontaneuos mutation' or in response to stimuli or environment, not requiring thousands of years.... Anyway, I'll look for my books and get you the titles...you can also try http://www.amazon.com for thousands of book titles or you can try for an interlibrary loan.....I could stay home all the time and read very rare books borrowed from libraries all over the US....seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 14:57:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA02076; Thu, 1 May 1997 14:57:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 14:57:17 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC563F.B134B0C0@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: energy travel velocity Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 14:55:20 -0700 Encoding: 26 TEXT, 42 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"CxPWc.0.HW.z6HQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2894 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, please forgive if this subject has been covered, but... Fred Epps wrote: > I think the electrostatic potential is simultaneous. At the instant >the switch is closed (in a circuit with a switch, a load, and a >resistor) the potential gradient is established over the circuit and the >current begins to flow. Several experiments have shown that energy can >travel through a wire at many times c. !!! So this would mean that information can be / is transmitted FTL? I thought that speed of propagation was theoretically one of the limiting factors in designing faster computer circuits? > The current doesn't need to believe there is a return path, it knows >there is one. > Fred Well, on a really long scale, how does it know? can we fool it? :-) Dan begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A45`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, ,````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965N0#'" $%@ ,`#@```,T'!0`!``X`-P`4``0`-P$!(( # M``X```#-!P4``0`.`#<`% `$`#E:\`1X`< `! M````%P```&5N97)G>2!TL"@P!0$P-4`@!C: K ?,C4U M`H *@8,-L0M@;F$>( 6@'< 7H1S@8G5T M+BX@0 J%"H5&%Z$@111P< 0@=P-@=&4Z.PJ'&WMP(@(>P0J%/B#E)+!)'A)N M:QX1'5 6,(L>L0-@ >40=P=6S)`9!N90A@!_*? J("L@*=0@`) F$/T%L"DE4R:("< L M\ B0`C#W)Q('D &1; 0`%B A@!^2OR53*T8M,B5A)#8K<'(7H'\OX1\P': & M,2Y0'6 7,'>/*! &8!^A)O%E>' &" M8R!F&U\<8 J%(3Q0K2!\4S0`'B-W"&!L(8#_!X #D39S"X =<0# )D "(',W M(A\A("\G$C?A`(!MARGP(B A@$943#\DT_0 M;B<%0"? (7$S\1\P_S"0-)$E4CD1'D$K($0Q"'"?`Z *L!X@'. KD6MN-$#^ M$$\ = 91S@ M-B'O3#-/-D%0/Z)W'5(&\$\QL4%0.BTI('P*A40W1R])WR/;('P6P0!>X `# M`! 0``````,`$1 `````0 `', #:H^%W5KP!0 `(,*")]%QZ5KP!'@`]``$` 4```!``````````,`#33]-P``3TW: ` end From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 18:46:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA08111; Thu, 1 May 1997 18:46:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 18:46:16 -0700 Message-ID: <33685557.B6E@triode.net.au> Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 01:33:27 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy List Subject: Wacky patents! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gprgy.0.e-1.dTKQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2895 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is an amusing link for all patent-heads http://colitz.com/site/wackyf.htm --- Maxwell Eccles: "Hey! What are you doing here?!" Bluebottle: "Dont you talk to me that way my man. Dont you know that I have 2 O-levels and a budgerigar?" Spike Milligan - Goon Show - From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 18:54:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA23365 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 1 May 1997 18:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 18:54:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Thu May 1 18:53:57 1997 Received: from hil-img-1.compuserve.com (hil-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.177.131]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA23094 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 18:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id VAA20322; Thu, 1 May 1997 21:52:54 -0400 Old-Date: 01 May 97 16:46:14 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970501204613_515664.456256_IHJ68-18@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 33 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Wacky patents! Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by hil-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id VAA27678; Thu, 1 May 1997 21:48:06 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA08110; Thu, 1 May 1997 18:46:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 18:46:16 -0700 Message-ID: <33685557.B6E@triode.net.au> Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 01:33:27 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy List Subject: Wacky patents! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gprgy.0.e-1.dTKQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2895 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Here is an amusing link for all patent-heads http://colitz.com/site/wackyf.htm --- Maxwell Eccles: "Hey! What are you doing here?!" Bluebottle: "Dont you talk to me that way my man. Dont you know that I have 2 O-levels and a budgerigar?" Spike Milligan - Goon Show - From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 19:27:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA27361; Thu, 1 May 1997 19:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 19:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33695098.684E@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 11:55:28 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7CoHJ.0.Hh6.u3LQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2896 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > At 8:19 PM 5/1/97, Greg Watson wrote: > [snip] > > > >I want the technology to be available to all. I never expected ANY > >mpney from the generation of power. > > > >The license fee will be based on that you wish to do. IE any user who > >wishes to build a unit would pay a one time fee for use of the > >technology and a ongoing fee based on the size and number of generators > >they wish to build. > > > [snip] > > This is all premature isn't it? Until the loop is closed and the > experiment independently replicated, there's nothing to sell reputably, is > there? > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner Hi Horace, I agree, thats why I asked for expressions of interest and NOT MONEY. I hope to be able to generate enough interest to be able to take the device to the next stage using the talents and money which exist with-in these groups. My request for expressions of interest was to judge the amount and level of support available. I am not asking for your money Horace, only a expression of your interest. If I can't deliver, its my face which will wear the egg. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 19:48:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA00114; Thu, 1 May 1997 19:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 19:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3369558A.C9@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 12:16:34 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Forces References: <199705011518.AAA11145@orca.microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4bakv.0.a1.PNLQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2897 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gene Batten wrote: > > Greg, > > Very interesting data. Thanks for sharing it. What are the units on > the attached graph? When I detached the graph, there were no units > listed on the graph. It would be helpful to know if you are using > inches, centemeters, pounds, etc. My guess is that you are using > metric units. Magnets / ferrite was 10cm thick, 15cm wide and 100cm long. The x axis (spacing) is in Cms. The y axis (force) is in Newtons > Could you also share how you obtained this data? I have no reason > to doubt it, I just wonder about the relative accuracy. The data was from Quick Field simulations and backed up by actual (simple) testing. > I have always suspected that the attraction and repulsive forces of > magnets were not equal, but I never tried to measure it. The reduction in opposing forces is due to the magnets being forced down their B/H curves and therefore reducing their face generated field strength. The attractive forces drive the magnets up their B/H curves and increase their face generated field strengths. What really suprised me was the opposing plot tracks the ferromagnetic plot. I suspect the use of stiffer magnetic material would generate plots closer together. > Your data indicates a rather significant difference between attraction > and repulsion forces (if I understand your chart correctly). So, if > this information really is what it appears to be, how can we exploit > this force difference to do work? > > Maybe you are already doing this? > > Regards, > Gene Batten -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 20:10:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA20636; Thu, 1 May 1997 20:09:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 20:09:53 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 22:11:39 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: FYI Resent-Message-ID: <"rS0e72.0.E25.0iLQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2898 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: List Members: I relay the following important message to you from Dr, Woolman. Please read, note the new URL and lets take this campaign to the next level. This push will hopefully accomplish the amending of the current Senate patent bill to come in line with the recently passed House version. Let's let all the Senate get the message loud and clear. Tucson Kid pmurray@azstarnet.com Blazing Barrels Posts Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 18:09:30 +0100 From: "R. Daniel Woolman" Reply-To: woolman@in-search-of.com Organization: In Search Of. . . To: InventorsD@aol.com Subject: On S 507 - ISO E-mail campaign Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, This will be my last post to you concerning Senate Bill S 507. We have sent a total of 300 individual letters to every member of the Senate Judiciary in the last two days. The total number of letters thus far mailed on this effort now stands at 5,400. It is now time to include the full senate in our efforts. I have rewritten the initial letter sent to the Judiciary. It appears that either John Ashcroft, or Fred Thompson, or perhaps even both may consider an amendment to S 507. This is only my opinion and can not be substantiated at this time. The new ISO E-mail page for the Judiciary is: http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/government/campaign/s507.shtml Additionally, I have placed a letter written for the entire US Senate concerning our opposition at: http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/government/campaign/s507_senate.shtml So, it is now time to come back to ISO and mail to the US Senate Judiciary and the full US Senate! I apologize to those of you who did not want to receive this mail. Most respectfully, R. Daniel Woolman, Ph.D. -- http://www.in-search-of.com/directory.shtml From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 20:17:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA21463 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 1 May 1997 20:17:45 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 20:17:45 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Thu May 1 20:17:42 1997 Received: from arl-img-6.compuserve.com (arl-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.217.136]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA21220 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 20:17:40 -0700 Received: by arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA27996; Thu, 1 May 1997 23:17:08 -0400 Old-Date: 01 May 97 23:11:27 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970502031126_515664.456256_BHG90-27@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 33 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 FYI Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA27375; Thu, 1 May 1997 23:11:57 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA20635; Thu, 1 May 1997 20:09:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 20:09:53 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 22:11:39 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: FYI Resent-Message-ID: <"rS0e72.0.E25.0iLQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2898 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com List Members: I relay the following important message to you from Dr, Woolman. Please read, note the new URL and lets take this campaign to the next level. This push will hopefully accomplish the amending of the current Senate patent bill to come in line with the recently passed House version. Let's let all the Senate get the message loud and clear. Tucson Kid pmurray@azstarnet.com Blazing Barrels Posts Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 18:09:30 +0100 From: "R. Daniel Woolman" Reply-To: woolman@in-search-of.com Organization: In Search Of. . . To: InventorsD@aol.com Subject: On S 507 - ISO E-mail campaign Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, This will be my last post to you concerning Senate Bill S 507. We have sent a total of 300 individual letters to every member of the Senate Judiciary in the last two days. The total number of letters thus far mailed on this effort now stands at 5,400. It is now time to include the full senate in our efforts. I have rewritten the initial letter sent to the Judiciary. It appears that either John Ashcroft, or Fred Thompson, or perhaps even both may consider an amendment to S 507. This is only my opinion and can not be substantiated at this time. The new ISO E-mail page for the Judiciary is: http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/government/campaign/s507.shtml Additionally, I have placed a letter written for the entire US Senate concerning our opposition at: http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/government/campaign/s507_senate.shtml So, it is now time to come back to ISO and mail to the US Senate Judiciary and the full US Senate! I apologize to those of you who did not want to receive this mail. Most respectfully, R. Daniel Woolman, Ph.D. -- http://www.in-search-of.com/directory.shtml From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 1 23:02:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA10574 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 1 May 1997 23:02:06 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:02:06 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Thu May 1 23:02:02 1997 Received: from arl-img-7.compuserve.com (arl-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.217.137]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA10324 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 23:02:00 -0700 Received: by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id CAA09030; Fri, 2 May 1997 02:01:27 -0400 Old-Date: 01 May 97 17:12:48 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970501211247_515664.456256_CHU64-0@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 33 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Researches of Burr Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA17570; Thu, 1 May 1997 17:14:13 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA27709; Thu, 1 May 1997 14:11:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 14:11:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3369147A.1432@keelynet.com> Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 15:08:58 -0700 From: Jerry Decker Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Researches of Burr References: <3.0.1.16.19970501022910.2d9f99aa@holly.colostate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LmBMQ2.0.tm6.wRGQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2893 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Thomas! Harold Saxton Burr, editor of a Yale Journal (can't remember on what), discovered what he called an 'electrodynamic field' which is similar to Rupert Sheldrakes 'morphogenetic field' and which appears to be a kind of dynamic and very complex electrical pattern possibly even an 'attenuating Meissner field' (it gets weaker with age). The best book is 'Blueprint for Destiny' written by a fellow named Russell, then there is another book that has 'Life' in the title, but can't recall it, have a copy somewhere around here, will look it up, they were VERY HARD TO FIND, but Burr has been a hero of mine since I was about 16.... He did long term experiments with trees to monitor their electrical fields for many years (I remember something about 30 years for one tree) and developed a means of measuring ovulation in human females by inserting a couple of fingers into a saltwater mixture...the books have details on his many experiments.... Russell postulated two kinds of fields in his book 'Blueprint', an L field (for Life) that actually produced the field (aura) which the body recorded in the form of tissue and the M field (doesn't sound right) but it had to do with the mind being the creator and sustainer of the L field. The idea was that by sustained thought you could alter the L field to produce healing or mutation as desired.....and there are dozens of reports, if not hundreds that verify tissue can experience 'spontaneuos mutation' or in response to stimuli or environment, not requiring thousands of years.... Anyway, I'll look for my books and get you the titles...you can also try http://www.amazon.com for thousands of book titles or you can try for an interlibrary loan.....I could stay home all the time and read very rare books borrowed from libraries all over the US....seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 04:02:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA09815; Fri, 2 May 1997 04:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 04:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 13:01:46 +0200 (METDST) Message-Id: <199705021101.NAA07552@imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin@mail2.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: TV program in France Resent-Message-ID: <"QW8xA1.0.GP2.tcSQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2899 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Freenrgians This is to announce, specially formember of this list in France and Belgium, the airing of our documentary about new energy and alternative science, saturday may 10th, 13 h 30, on the TV channel Canal Plus (in a weekly series called L=92=9Cil du cyclone / Eye of the cyclone). The film is called =AB Ils vont sauver la planete ! =BB (They=92re going to= save the planet ! ). It features Martin Fleischmann, Jim Griggs, Frank Stenger & Frank Znidarsic, Hal Fox, Teruo Kawai, Reidar Finsrud, Stanley Meyer, James E. Bare, Gaston Naessens, Arthur C. Clarke and French researchers Jacques Benveniste, Joel Sternheimer, Guy Arnaud and Gilles Thuny. Thanks to every one who helped ! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin lentin@imaginet.fr --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 04:11:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA05849 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 2 May 1997 04:11:46 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 04:11:46 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Fri May 2 04:11:38 1997 Received: from arl-img-3.compuserve.com (arl-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.217.133]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA05627 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 04:11:36 -0700 Received: by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id HAA00893; Fri, 2 May 1997 07:11:05 -0400 Old-Date: 02 May 97 07:01:32 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970502110131_515664.456256_JHR48-2@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 22 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 TV program in France Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id HAA12049; Fri, 2 May 1997 07:02:54 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA09814; Fri, 2 May 1997 04:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 04:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 13:01:46 +0200 (METDST) Message-Id: <199705021101.NAA07552@imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin@mail2.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: TV program in France Resent-Message-ID: <"QW8xA1.0.GP2.tcSQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2899 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Freenrgians This is to announce, specially formember of this list in France and Belgium, the airing of our documentary about new energy and alternative science, saturday may 10th, 13 h 30, on the TV channel Canal Plus (in a weekly series called L=92=9Cil du cyclone / Eye of the cyclone). The film is called =AB Ils vont sauver la planete ! =BB (They=92re going to= save the planet ! ). It features Martin Fleischmann, Jim Griggs, Frank Stenger & Frank Znidarsic, Hal Fox, Teruo Kawai, Reidar Finsrud, Stanley Meyer, James E. Bare, Gaston Naessens, Arthur C. Clarke and French researchers Jacques Benveniste, Joel Sternheimer, Guy Arnaud and Gilles Thuny. Thanks to every one who helped ! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin lentin@imaginet.fr --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 04:43:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA08938; Fri, 2 May 1997 04:43:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 04:43:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3369D316.5665@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 21:12:14 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jNqXz3.0.TB2.BDTQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2900 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Greg - > > > My request for expressions of interest was > > to judge the amount and level of support > > available. > > Greg, I doubt the level of interest is any higher than you see now it > because it's already pressed pretty hard up against the ceiling! This is > the reason many people have joined these lists in the first place, to see > if such things are possible and to find out how they might be constructed, > tested, and ultimately exploited to provide cheap/"free" energy to the > world. It's why I'm here. I think we're *all* very interested. But what can > we do? Apparently as of this moment you still have patent and secrecy > considerations on the technology, and perhaps you are not completely sure > that you've got a working model on your hands which unequivocally shows an > overunity effect. We ordinary list denizens really can't do anything about > it until you've got things to the point where you are completely > comfortable and confident of *demonstrable & duplicable* OU and of showing > it publically at least, if not putting various people here under NDA and > sending working models or plans. > > What's *your* plan with this? What's *your* schedule? I've been on the edge > of my seat here for weeks now waiting to see the triumphant messages about > how you've closed the loop and it keeps going like that damn pink rabbit. > > You've got all the interest and attention you need here, IMO. You've got > labs like EarthTech and people like Gene/Jed/Chris and other qualified > scientists and engineers who I'm sure would love to measure and verify what > you've got. The rest of us (like me) can be your cheering section. When > you're ready, I'm sure the folks on this list will be too. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI Hi Rick, Thanks for the genuine comments. Looks like I have been too close to this thing. Maybe I can't see the woods for the trees. I have explained the results I am getting with my linear model. I ask for feedback as to where and / or how I may be making a mistake. I ask for feedback as to how I can improve my test setup. But the only feedback I get is "CLOSE THE LOOP". I can show a real energy gain and I ask for comment on where the energy may be coming from. What do I get, "CLOSE THE LOOP". I express concern for the cost of using this energy and ask for comment. "CLOSE THE LOOP" comes back. When I do close the loop, with all respect, don't need the unit to be tested to tell me its working. Any pair of Mark 1 human eyes will do the job very well. I asked for feedback to involve ALL of you in this. I expected more than just a group of "CLOSE THE LOOP" lurkers. Thats why I asked for expressions of interest. I am trying to sort the interest. Maybe I am too close and have got this reply all wrong. I don't want to offend anyone. If I do, I apologize in advance. You probably don't realize how much I value the feedback from this group (both positive and negative). But I get so little. I set up a special interest group to discuss and duplicate elements of the device my patent attorney will allow me to disclose without choping my keyboard cable. But even with them I can only go so far, although some are getting warm. I have done a business plan and cash flow for the first 12 months and will be looking at raising around US $750,000. I still hope to be able to raise that much from here. I want to keep this thing as public as possible. I would rather have 500 investors at $1,500 each than 1 at $750,000. Large investors are hard to work with as they know the golden rule, IE.... "He Who Has The Gold, Makes The Rules". Remember: NONE OF US IS AS SMART AS ALL OF US. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 07:02:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA21762; Fri, 2 May 1997 07:02:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 07:02:41 -0700 Message-ID: <336A1DF0.3B71@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 10:01:36 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest References: <3369D316.5665@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"emYTL3.0.xJ5._FVQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2901 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > I have explained the results I am getting with my linear model. I ask > for feedback as to where and / or how I may be making a mistake. I ask > for feedback as to how I can improve my test setup. But the only > feedback I get is "CLOSE THE LOOP". Not quite correct Greg! > I can show a real energy gain and I ask for comment on where the energy > may be coming from. What do I get, "CLOSE THE LOOP". What about Bill's posting that magnets, like springs, can indeed do work, and that there may be a conservatitive explaination for the device? Clearly this was not a call to close the loop, but to eliminate any possible conventional explainations. I don't think this has been done yet. > I express concern for the cost of using this energy and ask for > comment. "CLOSE THE LOOP" comes back. > > When I do close the loop, with all respect, don't need the unit to be > tested to tell me its working. Any pair of Mark 1 human eyes will do > the job very well. Can you see that the magnets have not lost any potential, however small this loss might be? Mark 1 human eyes are not sufficient, their track record in evaluating over unity systems is dismal at best. > I asked for feedback to involve ALL of you in this. I expected more > than just a group of "CLOSE THE LOOP" lurkers. Thats why I asked for > expressions of interest. I am trying to sort the interest. It seems that the reaction to feedback is very selective on nearly everyones part. > Maybe I am too close and have got this reply all wrong. I don't want to > offend anyone. If I do, I apologize in advance. You probably don't > realize how much I value the feedback from this group (both positive and > negative). But I get so little. Ok, please lets be really sure that we have eliminated any possible conventional explaination before we assume (and that is the correct word in this case) that we have an over unity effect. Mark 1 eyeballs are known not to have a reasonable success rate at evaluating energy input and output ratios. Look at the magnetic gate thread as an example of how this level of testing simply fails to show us whats really going on in magnetic systems. > I set up a special interest group to discuss and duplicate elements of > the device my patent attorney will allow me to disclose without choping > my keyboard cable. But even with them I can only go so far, although > some are getting warm. The magnetic experiment posted by Jean looks a lot like this ramp device, and seems to predate it as well. Does this present any patent issues? Is the device in Jean's posting conventional (conservative), and/or does it operate in the same manner as your device? > I have done a business plan and cash flow for the first 12 months and > will be looking at raising around US $750,000. I still hope to be able > to raise that much from here. I want to keep this thing as public as > possible. I would rather have 500 investors at $1,500 each than 1 at > $750,000. Large investors are hard to work with as they know the golden > rule, IE.... "He Who Has The Gold, Makes The Rules". Personally, I think you have your cart way out in front of your horse here Greg. We must consider and eliminate any possible conventional explainations. Bill posted quite some time ago that he may have a conventional explaination, and I saw no responses to his posting at all. It seems that the possibility of a conventional explaination has been dismissed without any real discussion, mush less actual testing. This is a very big danger sign to me. Before contacting a lawyer and investigating the level of commercial interest, you might have made a simple (boiler plate NDA) agreement with another researcher, and had them duplicate the device. It seems that the only efforts at reproduction have not been exact duplications of the original. I'm also not at all sure how much actual testing of the apparent energy gain has been done. This should be an important first step in my opinion. How do you know that your not using stored potential from the magnets if we don't have good measurments of the apparent energy gain? I should think that all these questions and many more would need to be addressed before testing the potential investment waters. If the measurments were made with the level of detail needed to put a business plan together for a three-quarters of a million dollars, we would know a lot more about this device than we do today. A great many people want to beleive in ANY over unity system that they do not look at possible conventional explainations before assuming that their effect is unconventional. History shows us that this is a very dangerous path. I would like to see an expression of interest (on your part) in protecting your potential investors from suffering a loss before you test the investment waters. Eliminate any and all possible conventional explainations, have the device exactly duplicated by another researcher (under a solid NDA of course!) and get detailed measurments, not Mark 1 eyeball guesstimates and assumptions. Please understand the long history of claimed free energy devices. Note that in the vast majority of cases, exact reproductions, proper (detailed) measurments were not made, and conventional effects and explainations were not first eliminated before the assumption was made that something unconventional was at work. How many of these devices ever passed muster in the long run? (None!) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 07:29:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA27665; Fri, 2 May 1997 07:29:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 07:29:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:28:27 -0400 (EDT) From: woods@most.weird.com (Greg A. Woods) To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest In-Reply-To: Greg Watson's message of "Fri, May 2, 1997 21:12:14 +0930" regarding "Re: Expressions of Interest" id <3369D316.5665@microtronics.com.au> References: <3369D316.5665@microtronics.com.au> Reply-To: woods@weird.com (Greg A. Woods) X-Mailer: ViewMail (vm) Version 5.96 (beta) with GNU Emacs 19.34.1 (m68k.68881-sun-sunos4.1.1, X toolkit) of Thu Sep 12 1996 on most Organization: Planix, Inc.; Toronto, Ontario; Canada Resent-Message-ID: <"GENxH2.0.6m6.8fVQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2902 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [ On Fri, May 2, 1997 at 21:12:14 (+0930), Greg Watson wrote: ] > Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest > > I express concern for the cost of using this energy and ask for > comment. "CLOSE THE LOOP" comes back. I assure you I to would rather know the source of the energy than to just explit it unknowingly! BTW, in recent recreational reading on an entirely different subject I've found reference to papers by Ralph E. Juergens who writes (in these instances) about the effect of the Sun's electrical field on the rotation of the Earth. He claims there have been measurements made by Andre Danjon in 1960 and by Plagmann and Gribbin in 1972 that show the rotation of the Earth has been temporarily slowed down (by microseconds) during the effect of large solar flares. [in a journal called Kronos, Volume II, 2, pp. 15-16 and 3, pp. 12-15] Perhaps what you're observing is a similar or related effect. I've no idea what this might imply, but if these guys are right, and your effect is related, the consequences could be quite devastating, if only on a longer term. (NOTE: I know little or nothing of the journal Kronos, though I understand it is a peer review publication. Be skeptical. I've only read small quotations from these papers.) -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 443-1734 VE3TCP robohack!woods Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 09:36:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA11197; Fri, 2 May 1997 09:36:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:36:05 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC56DC.052BED50@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: permanent? magnets Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:34:22 -0700 Encoding: 8 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"2tapZ.0.sk2.qVXQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2903 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A while back someone asked if there have been any studies on permanent magnets that have been in use for a long time, to see what changes may have occurred. I don't recall seeing any response to that. PM electric motors and the like have been around for a long time now, so it seems we should have some information about long-term effects. Does anyone know of such information? Dan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 10:14:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA15702; Fri, 2 May 1997 10:13:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:13:59 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC56E1.5063CF40@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: RE: Expressions of Interest Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:12:16 -0700 Encoding: 31 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"hCsU5.0.Ar3.M3YQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2904 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, Bob, and all: Bob and others seem concerned that there may be a conventional explanation for the device, that it is not "overunity". But overunity is just a relative term, isn't it? I mean, coal could be looked at as overunity because *we* didn't put the energy into it, right? Depends on how big you draw the box. If indeed the magnets lose potential over time, so what? Whether that is an issue or not depends on how much energy we can get out of them compared to how long it takes to wear them out and how much energy went into magnetizing them. *if* they are wearing out, and *if* we get lots of clean energy out of them, then they are very efficient, clean, compact energy storage batteries. That in itself would be valuable. Maybe not worth $billions, only millions :-) Closing the loop is important. It is the best can't-fool-you measure of input vs output energy when the difference is subtle. I'll have to see that before I invest money. But it's not the only important thing here, and Greg's right to want to develop other aspects of the idea further before needing to close the loop. He's not asking for investment, he's asking who *might* invest "if I can demonstrate a working unit". If he's getting close to a working model, it's reasonable to be testing the investment waters. About the device posted by Jean-Louis Naudin from "Sciences et Vie": it is a related device, but it is using quite a different magnetic configuration. Also, its exit point is 10mm below its entry point; Greg's is quite an improvement in design and efficiency. Additionally, it doesn't seem like Greg is looking to patent the ramp itself. No conflict there, it seems. Dan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 10:24:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA21481; Fri, 2 May 1997 10:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC56E2.9A2C8DA0@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" , "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Simple OU Device effects Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:21:29 -0700 Encoding: 35 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"OqYHW3.0.WF5.cCYQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2905 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This started out as a preliminary stab at the effects of using Greg's magnetic ramp as an energy source. But it ends up skirting the issue, and becomes sort of a way of conventionally explaining what's going on, in real shallow terms :-). First, magnets have been doing work ever since we started using them. When you put a magnet up on the refrigerator, it does work as it pulls your hand with it toward the metal. You do an equivalent amount of work when you un-stick it later, but the magnet still did work. The magnet's work was balanced by your work. Gravity also does work, no? When you climb up a flight of stairs, you do lots of work to counter gravity. If you fall back down, gravity has done work. The system is balanced (even if you are not). In a permanent-magnet motor, the magnets are doing work. It is balanced by the work of the electromagnets, using electricity as their energy source. Permanent magnets are in wide use, and they are doing work. It's just that their work is usually balanced by energies that we provide. Greg's ramp is using one form of energy (gravitational) that we usually have to balance with our own energy, to offset another form of energy (magnetic) that we also usually have to balance with our own efforts. No big deal, right? Does anyone ever wonder whether we're depleting the Earth's gravitational energy when we fall down? In the same way, we've never stopped to wonder what the *efffects* of using magnets may be. Greg's asking a good question that maybe should be answered for our current, "conventional" widespread use of magnets. Dan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 13:38:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA13966; Fri, 2 May 1997 13:38:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 13:38:12 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:43:12 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Looking for meter Resent-Message-ID: <"CsFxM2.0.7Q3.p2bQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2906 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am trying to locate a reasonably priced meter to measure very low currents (in nA) and voltages (uV). The best I've located so far is The TENMA AC Millivolt Meter ($175 from MCM Electronics, cat #72-450). It has the disadvantage of being AC voltage only and analog, but goes down to a 0-300 uV range, and has amplified output for an oscilloscope. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 14:06:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA26253 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 14:06:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Fri May 2 14:06:06 1997 Received: from hil-img-7.compuserve.com (hil-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.177.137]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA26021 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA28782; Fri, 2 May 1997 17:04:59 -0400 Old-Date: 02 May 97 11:38:48 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970502153847_515664.456256_IHJ62-7@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 34 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Looking for meter Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Contents: 1 Internet Message Header 2 ================================= Begin Part 1 ================================= Topic: Internet Message Header Format: ASCII Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA07048; Fri, 2 May 1997 16:40:45 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA13965; Fri, 2 May 1997 13:38:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 13:38:11 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:43:12 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Looking for meter Resent-Message-ID: <"CsFxM2.0.7Q3.p2bQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2906 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ========================== End Part 1 / Begin Part 2 =========================== Format: ASCII I am trying to locate a reasonably priced meter to measure very low currents (in nA) and voltages (uV). The best I've located so far is The TENMA AC Millivolt Meter ($175 from MCM Electronics, cat #72-450). It has the disadvantage of being AC voltage only and analog, but goes down to a 0-300 uV range, and has amplified output for an oscilloscope. Regards, Horace Heffner ================================== End Part 2 ================================== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 14:38:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA23596; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:38:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 14:38:18 -0700 Message-ID: <336A88D0.384E@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 17:37:36 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: permanent? magnets References: <01BC56DC.052BED50@ristra.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"W6YAm2.0.bm5.9xbQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2907 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan Quickert wrote: > > A while back someone asked if there have been any studies on permanent > magnets that have been in use for a long time, to see what changes may have > occurred. I don't recall seeing any response to that. PM electric motors > and the like have been around for a long time now, so it seems we should > have some information about long-term effects. Does anyone know of such > information? > > Dan Yep, they demagnetize in many situations. This is due to several reasons such as heat, shock, and induced counter EMF effects. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 14:54:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA03071; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 14:54:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Keasy@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 17:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970502175302_-1031400530@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: permanent? magnets Resent-Message-ID: <"QJxbj.0.sl.JAcQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2908 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't have any references, but I know the standard theory is, and my experience has been, so long as you do not introduce reverse fields large enough to actually start to demagnetize a magnet, a "good" magnet is not in any measurable way effected by use. ie you can use it in reversible field configurations indefinitely without in any way "consuming" its energy. Does anyone else have any other opinions? Keasy From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 15:10:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA04913; Fri, 2 May 1997 15:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 15:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <336A904B.310A@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 18:09:31 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest References: <01BC56E1.5063CF40@ristra.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"32Z522.0.fC1.bPcQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2909 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan Quickert wrote: > Greg, Bob, and all: > > Bob and others seem concerned that there may be a conventional explanation > for the device, that it is not "overunity". But overunity is just a > relative term, isn't it? I mean, coal could be looked at as overunity > because *we* didn't put the energy into it, right? Depends on how big you > draw the box. Actually my concern is that there has been nearly no attention to the elimination of any conventional effects before proceeding to testing the investment waters. How many responses to Bill's post have there been? Is this at all objective? > If indeed the magnets lose potential over time, so what? Whether that is an > issue or not depends on how much energy we can get out of them compared to > how long it takes to wear them out and how much energy went into > magnetizing them. *if* they are wearing out, and *if* we get lots of clean > energy out of them, then they are very efficient, clean, compact energy > storage batteries. That in itself would be valuable. Maybe not worth > $billions, only millions :-) Bingo Dan! It does indeed depend on the ratio of how much energy we get out and how much energy went into making the magnet. How much energy is being produced by Greg's device? Do we know if the magnets are being depolarized at all? Do we even know how much energy goes into their production? This question is actually more important than closing the loop. If you close the loop, and it runs, great! But if it runs only for a time, and delivers less energy in that time than was used to make the magnets, you have just lost your investment. Isn't it really important to know this before investing? As far as magnets being very efficient energy storage devices, I think not. How can we assume the efficiency is high without knowing the ratio of input to output energy? Clearly this (high efficiency claim) is an assumption, unless I misses some posting with lots of hard data along the line. > Closing the loop is important. It is the best can't-fool-you measure of > input vs output energy when the difference is subtle. I'll have to see that > before I invest money. But it's not the only important thing here, and > Greg's right to want to develop other aspects of the idea further before > needing to close the loop. He's not asking for investment, he's asking who > *might* invest "if I can demonstrate a working unit". If he's getting close > to a working model, it's reasonable to be testing the investment waters. If the differance is subtle, how can we say the efficiency is high? But closing the loop does seperate ideas from facts quite efficiently. It's a critical milestone for sure, but it does not tell us everything we need to know. > About the device posted by Jean-Louis Naudin from "Sciences et Vie": it is > a related device, but it is using quite a different magnetic configuration. > Also, its exit point is 10mm below its entry point; Greg's is quite an > improvement in design and efficiency. Additionally, it doesn't seem like > Greg is looking to patent the ramp itself. No conflict there, it seems. Is an 'improvement' sufficient to warrent a seperate patent? I've been told that the answer is no, but I'm not a lawyer. Exactly what is greg seeking a patent for here if not the ramp? Clearly the process at work is very similar, why is there no conflict in your opinion? If the device in Jean-Louis Naudin's post operates conventionally, how do we know that Greg's does not also operate conventionally? Or is the "Sciences et Vie" device operating by some non-conventional process, in which case I would think there is a very clear conflict here, one that might well preclude a patent. If greg were issued a patent, what would prevent the originator of the "Sciences et Vie" device from filing a really messy lawsuit? But this is not the real issue in my opinion. What I'm interested in is the very basic question, is this effect conventional, or not? I think we are getting a bit too far downstream with this question unaddressed. I personally do not know the answer, but I think this must be THE most important question on all of our minds. It's clearly far more important than working out the details of a business plan or lining up potential investors at this point (in my opinion, of course). I really hope the thing works by some unconventional process, but the testing data I've seen so far does not tell me that this is the case at all. The lack of discussion of possible conventional processes is a very clear danger sign based on past history. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 17:03:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA19435; Fri, 2 May 1997 17:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 17:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970503093150.2b673c64@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 09:31:50 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: TV program in France In-Reply-To: <199705021101.NAA07552@imaginet.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"Q1Id-1.0.al4.w2eQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2910 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:01 PM 5/2/97 +0200, you wrote: >Freenrgians > >This is to announce, specially formember of this list in France and= Belgium, >the airing of our documentary about new energy and alternative science, >saturday may 10th, 13 h 30, on the TV channel Canal Plus (in a weekly= series >called L=92=9Cil du cyclone / Eye of the cyclone). > >The film is called =AB Ils vont sauver la planete ! =BB (They=92re going to= save >the planet ! ). It features Martin Fleischmann, Jim Griggs, Frank Stenger & >Frank Znidarsic, Hal Fox, Teruo Kawai, Reidar Finsrud, Stanley Meyer, James >E. Bare, Gaston Naessens, Arthur C. Clarke and French researchers Jacques >Benveniste, Joel Sternheimer, Guy Arnaud and Gilles Thuny. > >Thanks to every one who helped ! > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Jean-Pierre Lentin >lentin@imaginet.fr > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Pity there's not an English version and some commercial or the ABC could air it in Australia Geoff http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 17:56:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA27721; Fri, 2 May 1997 17:55:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 17:55:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <336A8CAD.2EC@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 10:24:05 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple OU Device Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"O2A6w1.0.1n6.NqeQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2911 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HI All, Thanks for all the feedback. I vaule it all. Here is my test setup and the results I get with my linear unit. Test Setup: =========== The test setup is composed of 4 sections, all joined end to end and made as level as possible. The release is on the right side and the exit is on the left. The sections are composed of 12mm alum "U" channel upon which a 12mm steel boll rolls from right to left. ......Exit......Black Box.......Entry.......Release 1) Release section: This is a 100mm section of alum 12mm alum "U" channel attached to the entry track. The release section is bent up at approx 5 deg. A small notch has been filed up the ramp as a index to assist the ball being released every time at the same position. The notch position was determined with the "Black Box" section removed and varying the release point to get the ball to just roll to the end of the 1mtr entry track without dropping over the end. This I assumed gave me as close as zero ball energy at the entry point of the "Black Box" as possible. 2) Entry section: This is a 1mtr long section of 12mm alum "U" channel as level as I can make it. 3) Black Box Section: This unit contains magnets and more of the 12mm alum "U" channel. The entry and exit track are at the same level. The ball is pulled up the ramp by a graduated B field. 4) Exit section: This is a 1mtr long sectin of 12mm alum "U" channel as level as I can make it. All sections are level and at the same height. Test Results: ============= The steel ball is placed on the "calibrated" release notch and released. It roll down the release ramp and onto the entry track. As it rolls along the entry track, the ball starts to slow. Then it gets to with-in 75-100mm from the end of the entry track or from the start of the "Black Box" section. the ball starts rolling at a constant speed and slightly accelerates as it crosses over into the "Black Box" section. It leaves the "Black Box" section showing some slight drag back with-in the first 25-50mm and then happily rolls off the end of the 1 mtr exit track. Further Testing: ================ I have constructed a working three ramp unit to investigate the change in "Black Box" input alterations due to the influence of the exit field. The testing here was to investigate the problems in attempting to close the loop. I could not get two units oriented at right angles to work due to the complexs interactions of the exit and entry fields. My idea here was to use 4 units set a right angles to each other to form a square and thus close the loop. The three unit linear model does work. Conclusions on the Linear Unit: =============================== A real energy gain is shown as well as the ability to move a mass. The energy gain seems to be around 20-30%. Closing the loop with such a model seems difficult as the frictional losses in returning the ball to the enrty point would be large. Rotary Unit: ============ My current work is centered on a rotary unit, quite different to the above. Long Term Intentions: ===================== I do not intend to manuf a thing. A license to use the technology will be available to any one who wishes to use it at a VERY LOW COST. My current thinking is around $100 upfront and $1 / 1kw generation capacity per unit on a decreasing sliding scale. I believe if the technology is available cheaply enough, its simpler and less costly in the long run to license it than steal it. As to getting rich, if my shareholders do, so will I. References: =========== US Patent 4,215,330 issued 29 July, 1980. Check it out. Test Group: =========== This patent was posted to the 9 members of my test group. While is is not my device, is is close and an understanding of the patent would be of benefit. To my knowledge, 4 members have constructed actual units. I included in the group several critics to help keep us all honest. , , , *Constructed* , *Constructed* , *Constructed* , *Constructed* , *Working on a unit* , , , *Constructed* The group was formed to reduce list traffic and help to keep discussions in control. If you wish to jon the group and be involved in actual construction and discussions please let me know. I should point out that the guys at Earth Tech are willing to test a "closed loop unit" unit at no charge. I have accepted. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 18:05:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA17372 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 2 May 1997 18:05:37 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:05:37 -0700 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Fri May 2 18:05:35 1997 Received: from relay7.UU.NET (relay7.UU.NET [192.48.96.17]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA17306 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 18:05:34 -0700 Received: from localhost by relay7.UU.NET with internal (peer crosschecked as: localhost) id QQcnwe02708; Fri, 2 May 1997 21:05:53 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 21:05:53 -0400 (EDT) From: MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.uu.net (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="QQcnwe02708.862621553/relay7.UU.NET" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to JULIANB@BGEARN.BITNET bounced 3 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --QQcnwe02708.862621553/relay7.UU.NET The original message was received at Fri, 2 May 1997 21:05:51 -0400 (EDT) from mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to cornellc.cit.cornell.edu.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 Host 'BGEARN.BITNET' Unknown 550 ... User unknown --QQcnwe02708.862621553/relay7.UU.NET Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; relay7.UU.NET Received-From-MTA: dns; mx2.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 21:05:51 -0400 (EDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; JULIANB@BGEARN.BITNET Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: dns; cornellc.cit.cornell.edu Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 Host 'BGEARN.BITNET' Unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 21:05:53 -0400 (EDT) --QQcnwe02708.862621553/relay7.UU.NET Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Return-Path: Received: from mx2.eskimo.com by relay7.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) id QQcnwe02703; Fri, 2 May 1997 21:05:51 -0400 (EDT) From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA27828; Fri, 2 May 1997 17:56:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 17:56:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705030056.RAA27828@mx2.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #156 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/156 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --QQcnwe02708.862621553/relay7.UU.NET-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 18:42:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA05298; Fri, 2 May 1997 18:42:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:42:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <336A97BD.11AE@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 11:11:17 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple Ou Device Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FGSgl2.0.gI1.5WfQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2912 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Here is the link to the Patent 4,215,330 : Right click on each image/page to save it to disk and then use any gif viewer to view or print it. This is not my device, but is close enough for you to build if you want to have a go and experiment. It does work. http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4215330 -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 18:51:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA06694 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 2 May 1997 18:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:51:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: jgassaway@webzone.net Fri May 2 18:51:29 1997 Received: from ns.webzone.net (ns.webzone.net [205.219.23.2]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA06675 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 18:51:25 -0700 (PDT) From: jgassaway@webzone.net Received: from justin.gorilla.net ([208.137.187.13]) by ns.webzone.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-12689) with SMTP id AAA227 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 20:46:15 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970503015141.006ec20c@webzone.net> X-Sender: jgassaway@webzone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Old-Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 20:51:41 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #156 X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: unsubscribe me from the list.At 05:56 PM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >freenrg-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 156 > >Today's Topics: > Re: Researches of Burr > energy travel velocity > Wacky patents! > Re: Expressions of Interest > Re: Magnetic Forces > FYI > TV program in France > Re: Expressions of Interest > Re: Expressions of Interest > Re: Expressions of Interest > permanent? magnets > RE: Expressions of Interest > Simple OU Device effects > Looking for meter > Re: permanent? magnets > Re: permanent? magnets > Re: Expressions of Interest > Re: TV program in France >Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 15:08:58 -0700 >From: Jerry Decker >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Researches of Burr >Message-ID: <3369147A.1432@keelynet.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Hi Thomas! > >Harold Saxton Burr, editor of a Yale Journal (can't remember on what),=20 >discovered what he called an 'electrodynamic field' which is similar to=20 >Rupert Sheldrakes 'morphogenetic field' and which appears to be a kind of= =20 >dynamic and very complex electrical pattern possibly even an 'attenuating= =20 >Meissner field' (it gets weaker with age). > >The best book is 'Blueprint for Destiny' written by a fellow named=20 >Russell, then there is another book that has 'Life' in the title, but=20 >can't recall it, have a copy somewhere around here, will look it up, they= =20 >were VERY HARD TO FIND, but Burr has been a hero of mine since I was=20 >about 16.... > >He did long term experiments with trees to monitor their electrical=20 >fields for many years (I remember something about 30 years for one tree)=20 >and developed a means of measuring ovulation in human females by=20 >inserting a couple of fingers into a saltwater mixture...the books have=20 >details on his many experiments.... > >Russell postulated two kinds of fields in his book 'Blueprint', an L=20 >field (for Life) that actually produced the field (aura) which the body=20 >recorded in the form of tissue and the M field (doesn't sound right) but=20 >it had to do with the mind being the creator and sustainer of the L=20 >field. > >The idea was that by sustained thought you could alter the L field to=20 >produce healing or mutation as desired.....and there are dozens of=20 >reports, if not hundreds that verify tissue can experience 'spontaneuos=20 >mutation' or in response to stimuli or environment, not requiring=20 >thousands of years.... > >Anyway, I'll look for my books and get you the titles...you can also try=20 > http://www.amazon.com for thousands of book titles or >you can try for an interlibrary loan.....I could stay home all the time=20 >and read very rare books borrowed from libraries all over the=20 >US....seeya! >--=20 > Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 >Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 14:55:20 -0700 >From: Dan Quickert >To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" >Subject: energy travel velocity >Message-ID: <01BC563F.B134B0C0@ristra.ucdavis.edu> > >Hi all, please forgive if this subject has been covered, but... > >Fred Epps wrote: > >> I think the electrostatic potential is simultaneous. At the instant >>the switch is closed (in a circuit with a switch, a load, and a >>resistor) the potential gradient is established over the circuit and the >>current begins to flow. Several experiments have shown that energy can >>travel through a wire at many times c. > >!!! > >So this would mean that information can be / is transmitted FTL? I thought= =20 >that speed of propagation was theoretically one of the limiting factors in= =20 >designing faster computer circuits? > >> The current doesn't need to believe there is a return path, it knows >>there is one. >> Fred > >Well, on a really long scale, how does it know? can we fool it? :-) > > >Dan > > > >begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT >M>)\^(A45`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` >M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ >MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, ,````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` >M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965NM5% `9G)E96YR9RUL0&5S:VEM;RYC;VT``!X``C !````!0```%--5% ````` >M'@`#, $````5````9G)E96YR9RUL0&5S:VEM;RYC;VT``````P`5# $````# >M`/X/!@```!X``3 !````%P```"=3DFM"S !````&@```%--5% Z1E)%14Y21RU,0$532TE-3RY#3TT````#```Y```` >M``L`0#H!`````@'V#P$````$`````````UPT`02 `0`7````96YEM879E;"!V96QO8VET>0#'" $%@ ,`#@```,T'!0`!``X`-P`4``0`-P$!(( # >M``X```#-!P4``0`.`#<`% `$`#M,4(W,34P,$$P,C1"03$V,S<`ZP8!`Y &`+0$```4````"P`C```````#`"8` >M``````L`*0```````P`N```````#`#8``````$ `.0```_-<>E:\`1X`< `! >M````%P```&5N97)G>2!TM5GIM# $````7````9&5Q=3D6EC:V5R=3D$!U8V1A=3DFES+F5D=3D0```P`&$+'KVLT#``<0 >M6P(``!X`"! !````90```$A)04Q,+%!,14%3149/4D=3D)5D5)1E1(25-354)* >M14-42$%30D5%3D-/5D52140L0E541E)%1$504%-74D]413I)5$A)3DM42$5% >M3$5#5%)/4U1!5$E#4$]414Y424%,25-324T``````@$)$ $````K`P``)P,` >M`!\%``!,6D9US:#CKO\`"@$/`A4"I /D!>L"@P!0$P-4`@!C: K M``;#`H,R`\8'$P*#$C,3#V8T#WIH96S1`R!$;&<"@'T*@ C/Q0G9.Q>?,C4U >M`H *@8,-L0M@;FM$')G:78=3D4!$&D"!T: 0`('-UO&)J!9 %0!' !"!B">$>( 6@'< 7H1S@8G5T >M+BX@0 J%"H5&%Z$@111P< 0@=3DP-@=3D&4Z.PJ'&WMP(@(>P0J%/B#E)+!)'A)N >M:QX1'5 6,(L>L0-@ >40=3DP=3D6S)`9!N90A@M< 5 ?R5B"X F$0(P)#8E8@/A=3D+L1L"<28QM(>!_*? J("L@*=3D0@`) F$/T%L"DE4R:("< L >M\ B0`C#W)Q('D &1; 0`%B A@!^2OR53*T8M,B5A)#8K<'(7H'\OX1\P': & >M,2Y0'6 7,'>/*! &8!^A)O%E>' &MD"? '9!Y'W `<#\I%R^0'< #(!X@`V!U9_\K\@/P%Z " >M8R!F&U\<8 J%(3Q0K2!\4S0`'B-W"&!L(8#_!X #D39S"X =3D<0# )D "(',W >M(A\A("\G$C?A`(!MARGP(B A@$943#\DT_M/T1W'P$E806P$@#_)E M#; `D&<#`$7C)A Q(06@G&UP("!'HBM40 >M;B<%0"? (7$S\1\P_S"0-)$E4CD1'D$K($0Q"'"?`Z *L!X@'. KD6MN-$#^ >M$$\ =3D 91S@ >M-B'O3#-/-D%0/Z)W'5(&\$\QL4%0.BTI('P*A40W1R])WR/;('P6P0!>X `# >M`! 0``````,`$1 `````0 `', #:H^%W5KP!0 `(,*")]%QZ5KP!'@`]``$` >4```!``````````,`#33]-P``3TW: >` >end >Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 01:33:27 -0700 >From: Maxwell >To: Free Energy List >Subject: Wacky patents! >Message-ID: <33685557.B6E@triode.net.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Here is an amusing link for all patent-heads > >http://colitz.com/site/wackyf.htm >--- >Maxwell > >Eccles: "Hey! What are you doing here?!" >Bluebottle: "Dont you talk to me that way my man. > Dont you know that I have 2 O-levels and a budgerigar?" >Spike Milligan - Goon Show - >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 11:55:28 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest >Message-ID: <33695098.684E@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Horace Heffner wrote: >>=20 >> At 8:19 PM 5/1/97, Greg Watson wrote: >> [snip] >> > >> >I want the technology to be available to all. I never expected ANY >> >mpney from the generation of power. >> > >> >The license fee will be based on that you wish to do. IE any user who >> >wishes to build a unit would pay a one time fee for use of the >> >technology and a ongoing fee based on the size and number of generators >> >they wish to build. >> > >> [snip] >>=20 >> This is all premature isn't it? Until the loop is closed and the >> experiment independently replicated, there's nothing to sell reputably,= is >> there? >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Horace Heffner > >Hi Horace, > >I agree, thats why I asked for expressions of interest and NOT MONEY. > >I hope to be able to generate enough interest to be able to take the >device to the next stage using the talents and money which exist with-in >these groups. > >My request for expressions of interest was to judge the amount and level >of support available. > >I am not asking for your money Horace, only a expression of your >interest. > >If I can't deliver, its my face which will wear the egg. > >--=20 >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > 61 18 833 461 Mobile >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 12:16:34 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Magnetic Forces >Message-ID: <3369558A.C9@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Gene Batten wrote: >>=20 >> Greg, >>=20 >> Very interesting data. Thanks for sharing it. What are the units on >> the attached graph? When I detached the graph, there were no units >> listed on the graph. It would be helpful to know if you are using >> inches, centemeters, pounds, etc. My guess is that you are using >> metric units. > >Magnets / ferrite was 10cm thick, 15cm wide and 100cm long. > >The x axis (spacing) is in Cms. > >The y axis (force) is in Newtons > >> Could you also share how you obtained this data? I have no reason >> to doubt it, I just wonder about the relative accuracy. > >The data was from Quick Field simulations and backed up by actual >(simple) testing. > >> I have always suspected that the attraction and repulsive forces of >> magnets were not equal, but I never tried to measure it. > >The reduction in opposing forces is due to the magnets being forced down >their B/H curves and therefore reducing their face generated field >strength. > >The attractive forces drive the magnets up their B/H curves and increase >their face generated field strengths. > >What really suprised me was the opposing plot tracks the ferromagnetic >plot. > >I suspect the use of stiffer magnetic material would generate plots >closer together. > >> Your data indicates a rather significant difference between attraction >> and repulsion forces (if I understand your chart correctly). So, if >> this information really is what it appears to be, how can we exploit >> this force difference to do work? >>=20 >> Maybe you are already doing this? >>=20 >> Regards, >> Gene Batten > >--=20 >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > 61 18 833 461 Mobile >Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 22:11:39 -0600 >From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: FYI >Message-Id: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" > >List Members: I relay the following important message to you from Dr, >Woolman. Please read, note the new URL and lets take this campaign to the >next level. This push will hopefully accomplish the amending of the= current >Senate patent bill to come in line with the recently passed House version. >Let's let all the Senate get the message loud and clear. > >Tucson Kid >pmurray@azstarnet.com >Blazing Barrels Posts > >Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 18:09:30 +0100 >From: "R. Daniel Woolman" >Reply-To: woolman@in-search-of.com >Organization: In Search Of. . . >To: InventorsD@aol.com >Subject: On S 507 - ISO E-mail campaign >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Hello everyone, > >This will be my last post to you concerning Senate Bill S 507. > >We have sent a total of 300 individual letters to every member of the >Senate Judiciary in the last two days. The total number of letters thus >far mailed on this effort now stands at 5,400. > >It is now time to include the full senate in our efforts. I have >rewritten the initial letter sent to the Judiciary. It appears that >either John Ashcroft, or Fred Thompson, or perhaps even both may >consider an amendment to S 507. This is only my opinion and can not be >substantiated at this time. > >The new ISO E-mail page for the Judiciary is: > >http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/government/campaign/s507.shtml > >Additionally, I have placed a letter written for the entire US Senate >concerning our opposition at: > >http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/government/campaign/s507_senate.shtml > >So, it is now time to come back to ISO and mail to the US Senate >Judiciary and the full US Senate! > >I apologize to those of you who did not want to receive this mail. > >Most respectfully, > >R. Daniel Woolman, Ph.D. >-- >http://www.in-search-of.com/directory.shtml >Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 13:01:46 +0200 (METDST) >From: Jean-Pierre Lentin >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: TV program in France >Message-Id: <199705021101.NAA07552@imaginet.fr> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > >Freenrgians > >This is to announce, specially formember of this list in France and= Belgium, >the airing of our documentary about new energy and alternative science, >saturday may 10th, 13 h 30, on the TV channel Canal Plus (in a weekly= series >called L=92=9Cil du cyclone / Eye of the cyclone). > >The film is called =AB Ils vont sauver la planete ! =BB (They=92re going to= save >the planet ! ). It features Martin Fleischmann, Jim Griggs, Frank Stenger & >Frank Znidarsic, Hal Fox, Teruo Kawai, Reidar Finsrud, Stanley Meyer, James >E. Bare, Gaston Naessens, Arthur C. Clarke and French researchers Jacques >Benveniste, Joel Sternheimer, Guy Arnaud and Gilles Thuny. > >Thanks to every one who helped ! > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Jean-Pierre Lentin >lentin@imaginet.fr > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 21:12:14 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest >Message-ID: <3369D316.5665@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Rick Monteverde wrote: >>=20 >> Greg - >>=20 >> > My request for expressions of interest was >> > to judge the amount and level of support >> > available. >>=20 >> Greg, I doubt the level of interest is any higher than you see now it >> because it's already pressed pretty hard up against the ceiling! This is >> the reason many people have joined these lists in the first place, to see >> if such things are possible and to find out how they might be= constructed, >> tested, and ultimately exploited to provide cheap/"free" energy to the >> world. It's why I'm here. I think we're *all* very interested. But what= can >> we do? Apparently as of this moment you still have patent and secrecy >> considerations on the technology, and perhaps you are not completely sure >> that you've got a working model on your hands which unequivocally shows= an >> overunity effect. We ordinary list denizens really can't do anything= about >> it until you've got things to the point where you are completely >> comfortable and confident of *demonstrable & duplicable* OU and of= showing >> it publically at least, if not putting various people here under NDA and >> sending working models or plans. >>=20 >> What's *your* plan with this? What's *your* schedule? I've been on the= edge >> of my seat here for weeks now waiting to see the triumphant messages= about >> how you've closed the loop and it keeps going like that damn pink rabbit. >>=20 >> You've got all the interest and attention you need here, IMO. You've got >> labs like EarthTech and people like Gene/Jed/Chris and other qualified >> scientists and engineers who I'm sure would love to measure and verify= what >> you've got. The rest of us (like me) can be your cheering section. When >> you're ready, I'm sure the folks on this list will be too. >>=20 >> - Rick Monteverde >> Honolulu, HI > >Hi Rick, > >Thanks for the genuine comments. =20 > >Looks like I have been too close to this thing. Maybe I can't see the >woods for the trees. > >I have explained the results I am getting with my linear model. I ask >for feedback as to where and / or how I may be making a mistake. I ask >for feedback as to how I can improve my test setup. But the only >feedback I get is "CLOSE THE LOOP". =20 > >I can show a real energy gain and I ask for comment on where the energy >may be coming from. What do I get, "CLOSE THE LOOP". > >I express concern for the cost of using this energy and ask for >comment. "CLOSE THE LOOP" comes back. > >When I do close the loop, with all respect, don't need the unit to be >tested to tell me its working. Any pair of Mark 1 human eyes will do >the job very well. > >I asked for feedback to involve ALL of you in this. I expected more >than just a group of "CLOSE THE LOOP" lurkers. Thats why I asked for >expressions of interest. I am trying to sort the interest. > >Maybe I am too close and have got this reply all wrong. I don't want to >offend anyone. If I do, I apologize in advance. You probably don't >realize how much I value the feedback from this group (both positive and >negative). But I get so little. > >I set up a special interest group to discuss and duplicate elements of >the device my patent attorney will allow me to disclose without choping >my keyboard cable. But even with them I can only go so far, although >some are getting warm. > >I have done a business plan and cash flow for the first 12 months and >will be looking at raising around US $750,000. I still hope to be able >to raise that much from here. I want to keep this thing as public as >possible. I would rather have 500 investors at $1,500 each than 1 at >$750,000. Large investors are hard to work with as they know the golden >rule, IE.... "He Who Has The Gold, Makes The Rules". > > >Remember: > > NONE OF US IS AS SMART AS ALL OF US. > > >--=20 >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > 61 18 833 461 Mobile >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 10:01:36 -0700 >From: Bob Shannon >To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au >CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest >Message-ID: <336A1DF0.3B71@tiac.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Greg Watson wrote: >=20 >> I have explained the results I am getting with my linear model. I ask >> for feedback as to where and / or how I may be making a mistake. I ask >> for feedback as to how I can improve my test setup. But the only >> feedback I get is "CLOSE THE LOOP". > >Not quite correct Greg! >=20 >> I can show a real energy gain and I ask for comment on where the energy >> may be coming from. What do I get, "CLOSE THE LOOP". > >What about Bill's posting that magnets, like springs, can indeed do >work, and that >there may be a conservatitive explaination for the device? > >Clearly this was not a call to close the loop, but to eliminate any >possible conventional explainations. > >I don't think this has been done yet. >=20 >> I express concern for the cost of using this energy and ask for >> comment. "CLOSE THE LOOP" comes back. >> >> When I do close the loop, with all respect, don't need the unit to be >> tested to tell me its working. Any pair of Mark 1 human eyes will do >> the job very well. > >Can you see that the magnets have not lost any potential, however small >this loss might be? Mark 1 human eyes are not sufficient, their track >record in evaluating over unity systems is dismal at best. >=20 >> I asked for feedback to involve ALL of you in this. I expected more >> than just a group of "CLOSE THE LOOP" lurkers. Thats why I asked for >> expressions of interest. I am trying to sort the interest. > >It seems that the reaction to feedback is very selective on nearly >everyones part. > >> Maybe I am too close and have got this reply all wrong. I don't want to >> offend anyone. If I do, I apologize in advance. You probably don't >> realize how much I value the feedback from this group (both positive and >> negative). But I get so little. > >Ok, please lets be really sure that we have eliminated any possible >conventional explaination before we assume (and that is the correct word >in this case) that we have an over unity effect. > >Mark 1 eyeballs are known not to have a reasonable success rate at >evaluating energy input and output ratios. Look at the magnetic gate >thread as an example of how this level of testing simply fails to show >us whats really going on in magnetic systems. > >> I set up a special interest group to discuss and duplicate elements of >> the device my patent attorney will allow me to disclose without choping >> my keyboard cable. But even with them I can only go so far, although >> some are getting warm. > >The magnetic experiment posted by Jean looks a lot like this ramp >device, and seems to predate it as well. Does this present any patent >issues? Is the device in Jean's posting conventional (conservative), >and/or does it operate in the same manner as your device? > >> I have done a business plan and cash flow for the first 12 months and >> will be looking at raising around US $750,000. I still hope to be able >> to raise that much from here. I want to keep this thing as public as >> possible. I would rather have 500 investors at $1,500 each than 1 at >> $750,000. Large investors are hard to work with as they know the golden >> rule, IE.... "He Who Has The Gold, Makes The Rules". > >Personally, I think you have your cart way out in front of your horse >here Greg. > >We must consider and eliminate any possible conventional explainations.=20 >Bill posted quite some time ago that he may have a conventional >explaination, and I saw no responses to his posting at all. > >It seems that the possibility of a conventional explaination has been >dismissed without any real discussion, mush less actual testing. This >is a very big danger sign to me. > >Before contacting a lawyer and investigating the level of commercial >interest, you might have made a simple (boiler plate NDA) agreement with >another researcher, and had them duplicate the device. It seems that >the only efforts at reproduction have not been exact duplications of the >original. > >I'm also not at all sure how much actual testing of the apparent energy >gain has been done. This should be an important first step in my >opinion. How do you know that your not using stored potential from the >magnets if we don't have good measurments of the apparent energy gain? > >I should think that all these questions and many more would need to be >addressed before testing the potential investment waters. > >If the measurments were made with the level of detail needed to put a >business plan together for a three-quarters of a million dollars, we >would know a lot more about this device than we do today. A great many >people want to beleive in ANY over unity system that they do not look at >possible conventional explainations before assuming that their effect is >unconventional. > >History shows us that this is a very dangerous path. =20 > >I would like to see an expression of interest (on your part) in >protecting your potential investors from suffering a loss before you >test the investment waters. Eliminate any and all possible conventional >explainations, have the device exactly duplicated by another researcher >(under a solid NDA of course!) and get detailed measurments, not Mark 1 >eyeball guesstimates and assumptions. > >Please understand the long history of claimed free energy devices. Note >that in the vast majority of cases, exact reproductions, proper >(detailed) measurments were not made, and conventional effects and >explainations were not first eliminated before the assumption was made >that something unconventional was at work. > >How many of these devices ever passed muster in the long run? (None!) >Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:28:27 -0400 (EDT) >From: woods@most.weird.com (Greg A. Woods) >To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest >Message-Id: > >[ On Fri, May 2, 1997 at 21:12:14 (+0930), Greg Watson wrote: ] >> Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest >> >> I express concern for the cost of using this energy and ask for >> comment. "CLOSE THE LOOP" comes back. > >I assure you I to would rather know the source of the energy than to >just explit it unknowingly! > >BTW, in recent recreational reading on an entirely different subject >I've found reference to papers by Ralph E. Juergens who writes (in these >instances) about the effect of the Sun's electrical field on the >rotation of the Earth. He claims there have been measurements made by >Andre Danjon in 1960 and by Plagmann and Gribbin in 1972 that show the >rotation of the Earth has been temporarily slowed down (by microseconds) >during the effect of large solar flares. [in a journal called Kronos, >Volume II, 2, pp. 15-16 and 3, pp. 12-15] > >Perhaps what you're observing is a similar or related effect. I've no >idea what this might imply, but if these guys are right, and your effect >is related, the consequences could be quite devastating, if only on a >longer term. > >(NOTE: I know little or nothing of the journal Kronos, though I >understand it is a peer review publication. Be skeptical. I've only >read small quotations from these papers.) > >--=20 > Greg A. Woods > >+1 416 443-1734 VE3TCP robohack!woods >Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird >Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:34:22 -0700 >From: Dan Quickert >To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" >Subject: permanent? magnets >Message-ID: <01BC56DC.052BED50@ristra.ucdavis.edu> > >A while back someone asked if there have been any studies on permanent=20 >magnets that have been in use for a long time, to see what changes may have= =20 >occurred. I don't recall seeing any response to that. PM electric motors=20 >and the like have been around for a long time now, so it seems we should=20 >have some information about long-term effects. Does anyone know of such=20 >information? > >Dan >Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:12:16 -0700 >From: Dan Quickert >To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" >Subject: RE: Expressions of Interest >Message-ID: <01BC56E1.5063CF40@ristra.ucdavis.edu> > >Greg, Bob, and all: > >Bob and others seem concerned that there may be a conventional explanation= =20 >for the device, that it is not "overunity". But overunity is just a=20 >relative term, isn't it? I mean, coal could be looked at as overunity=20 >because *we* didn't put the energy into it, right? Depends on how big you= =20 >draw the box. > >If indeed the magnets lose potential over time, so what? Whether that is an= =20 >issue or not depends on how much energy we can get out of them compared to= =20 >how long it takes to wear them out and how much energy went into=20 >magnetizing them. *if* they are wearing out, and *if* we get lots of clean= =20 >energy out of them, then they are very efficient, clean, compact energy=20 >storage batteries. That in itself would be valuable. Maybe not worth=20 >$billions, only millions :-) > >Closing the loop is important. It is the best can't-fool-you measure of=20 >input vs output energy when the difference is subtle. I'll have to see that= =20 >before I invest money. But it's not the only important thing here, and=20 >Greg's right to want to develop other aspects of the idea further before=20 >needing to close the loop. He's not asking for investment, he's asking who= =20 >*might* invest "if I can demonstrate a working unit". If he's getting close= =20 >to a working model, it's reasonable to be testing the investment waters. > >About the device posted by Jean-Louis Naudin from "Sciences et Vie": it is= =20 >a related device, but it is using quite a different magnetic configuration.= =20 >Also, its exit point is 10mm below its entry point; Greg's is quite an=20 >improvement in design and efficiency. Additionally, it doesn't seem like=20 >Greg is looking to patent the ramp itself. No conflict there, it seems. > >Dan >Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:21:29 -0700 >From: Dan Quickert >To: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" , > "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" > >Subject: Simple OU Device effects >Message-ID: <01BC56E2.9A2C8DA0@ristra.ucdavis.edu> > >This started out as a preliminary stab at the effects of using Greg's=20 >magnetic ramp as an energy source. But it ends up skirting the issue, and= =20 >becomes sort of a way of conventionally explaining what's going on, in real= =20 >shallow terms :-). > >First, magnets have been doing work ever since we started using them. When= =20 >you put a magnet up on the refrigerator, it does work as it pulls your hand= =20 >with it toward the metal. You do an equivalent amount of work when you=20 >un-stick it later, but the magnet still did work. The magnet's work was=20 >balanced by your work. > >Gravity also does work, no? When you climb up a flight of stairs, you do=20 >lots of work to counter gravity. If you fall back down, gravity has done=20 >work. The system is balanced (even if you are not). > >In a permanent-magnet motor, the magnets are doing work. It is balanced by= =20 >the work of the electromagnets, using electricity as their energy source. > >Permanent magnets are in wide use, and they are doing work. It's just that= =20 >their work is usually balanced by energies that we provide. > >Greg's ramp is using one form of energy (gravitational) that we usually=20 >have to balance with our own energy, to offset another form of energy=20 >(magnetic) that we also usually have to balance with our own efforts. No=20 >big deal, right? > >Does anyone ever wonder whether we're depleting the Earth's gravitational= =20 >energy when we fall down? > >In the same way, we've never stopped to wonder what the *efffects* of using= =20 >magnets may be. Greg's asking a good question that maybe should be answered= =20 >for our current, "conventional" widespread use of magnets. > > >Dan >Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:43:12 -0800 >From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Looking for meter >Message-Id: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" > >I am trying to locate a reasonably priced meter to measure very low >currents (in nA) and voltages (uV). The best I've located so far is The >TENMA AC Millivolt Meter ($175 from MCM Electronics, cat #72-450). It has >the disadvantage of being AC voltage only and analog, but goes down to a >0-300 uV range, and has amplified output for an oscilloscope. > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner =20 >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 17:37:36 -0700 >From: Bob Shannon >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: permanent? magnets >Message-ID: <336A88D0.384E@tiac.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Dan Quickert wrote: >>=20 >> A while back someone asked if there have been any studies on permanent >> magnets that have been in use for a long time, to see what changes may= have >> occurred. I don't recall seeing any response to that. PM electric motors >> and the like have been around for a long time now, so it seems we should >> have some information about long-term effects. Does anyone know of such >> information? >>=20 >> Dan > >Yep, they demagnetize in many situations. This is due to several >reasons such as heat, shock, and induced counter EMF effects. >Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 17:53:07 -0400 (EDT) >From: Keasy@aol.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: permanent? magnets >Message-ID: <970502175302_-1031400530@emout09.mail.aol.com> > >I don't have any references, but I know the standard theory is, and my >experience has been, so long as you do not introduce reverse fields large >enough to actually start to demagnetize a magnet, a "good" magnet is not in >any measurable way effected by use. ie you can use it in reversible field >configurations indefinitely without in any way "consuming" its energy. = Does >anyone else have any other opinions? > > > > = Keasy >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 18:09:31 -0700 >From: Bob Shannon >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Expressions of Interest >Message-ID: <336A904B.310A@tiac.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Dan Quickert wrote: > >> Greg, Bob, and all: >>=20 >> Bob and others seem concerned that there may be a conventional= explanation >> for the device, that it is not "overunity". But overunity is just a >> relative term, isn't it? I mean, coal could be looked at as overunity >> because *we* didn't put the energy into it, right? Depends on how big you >> draw the box. > >Actually my concern is that there has been nearly no attention to the >elimination of any conventional effects before proceeding to testing the >investment waters. > >How many responses to Bill's post have there been? Is this at all >objective? >=20 >> If indeed the magnets lose potential over time, so what? Whether that is= an >> issue or not depends on how much energy we can get out of them compared= to >> how long it takes to wear them out and how much energy went into >> magnetizing them. *if* they are wearing out, and *if* we get lots of= clean >> energy out of them, then they are very efficient, clean, compact energy >> storage batteries. That in itself would be valuable. Maybe not worth >> $billions, only millions :-) > >Bingo Dan! It does indeed depend on the ratio of how much energy we get >out and how much energy went into making the magnet. How much energy is >being produced by Greg's device? > >Do we know if the magnets are being depolarized at all? Do we even know >how much energy goes into their production? This question is actually >more important than closing the loop. If you close the loop, and it >runs, great! But if it runs only for a time, and delivers less energy >in that time than was used to make the magnets, you have just lost your >investment. Isn't it really important to know this before investing? > >As far as magnets being very efficient energy storage devices, I think >not. How can we assume the efficiency is high without knowing the ratio >of input to output energy? > >Clearly this (high efficiency claim) is an assumption, unless I misses >some posting with lots of hard data along the line.=20 >=20 >> Closing the loop is important. It is the best can't-fool-you measure of >> input vs output energy when the difference is subtle. I'll have to see= that >> before I invest money. But it's not the only important thing here, and >> Greg's right to want to develop other aspects of the idea further before >> needing to close the loop. He's not asking for investment, he's asking= who >> *might* invest "if I can demonstrate a working unit". If he's getting= close >> to a working model, it's reasonable to be testing the investment waters. > >If the differance is subtle, how can we say the efficiency is high? > >But closing the loop does seperate ideas from facts quite efficiently.=20 >It's a critical milestone for sure, but it does not tell us everything >we need to know. > >> About the device posted by Jean-Louis Naudin from "Sciences et Vie": it= is >> a related device, but it is using quite a different magnetic= configuration. >> Also, its exit point is 10mm below its entry point; Greg's is quite an >> improvement in design and efficiency. Additionally, it doesn't seem like >> Greg is looking to patent the ramp itself. No conflict there, it seems. > >Is an 'improvement' sufficient to warrent a seperate patent? I've been >told that the answer is no, but I'm not a lawyer. Exactly what is greg >seeking a patent for here if not the ramp? Clearly the process at work >is very similar, why is there no conflict in your opinion? > >If the device in Jean-Louis Naudin's post operates conventionally, how >do we know that Greg's does not also operate conventionally? Or is the >"Sciences et Vie" device operating by some non-conventional process, in >which case I would think there is a very clear conflict here, one that >might well preclude a patent.=20 > >If greg were issued a patent, what would prevent the originator of the >"Sciences et Vie" device from filing a really messy lawsuit? > >But this is not the real issue in my opinion. What I'm interested in is >the very basic question, is this effect conventional, or not? I think >we are getting a bit too far downstream with this question unaddressed.=20 >I personally do not know the answer, but I think this must be THE most >important question on all of our minds. =20 > >It's clearly far more important than working out the details of a >business plan or lining up potential investors at this point (in my >opinion, of course). > >I really hope the thing works by some unconventional process, but the >testing data I've seen so far does not tell me that this is the case at >all. The lack of discussion of possible conventional processes is a >very clear danger sign based on past history. >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 09:31:50 >From: Geoff Egel >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: TV program in France >Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970503093150.2b673c64@main.murray.net.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > >At 01:01 PM 5/2/97 +0200, you wrote: >>Freenrgians >> >>This is to announce, specially formember of this list in France and= Belgium, >>the airing of our documentary about new energy and alternative science, >>saturday may 10th, 13 h 30, on the TV channel Canal Plus (in a weekly= series >>called L=92=9Cil du cyclone / Eye of the cyclone). >> >>The film is called =AB Ils vont sauver la planete ! =BB (They=92re going= to save >>the planet ! ). It features Martin Fleischmann, Jim Griggs, Frank Stenger= & >>Frank Znidarsic, Hal Fox, Teruo Kawai, Reidar Finsrud, Stanley Meyer,= James >>E. Bare, Gaston Naessens, Arthur C. Clarke and French researchers Jacques >>Benveniste, Joel Sternheimer, Guy Arnaud and Gilles Thuny. >> >>Thanks to every one who helped ! >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------= - >>Jean-Pierre Lentin >>lentin@imaginet.fr >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------= - >> >>Pity there's not an English version and some commercial or the ABC could >air it in Australia > >Geoff >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 18:53:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA06838; Fri, 2 May 1997 18:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502185246.00a5e1b4@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 18:52:47 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"r5t9X1.0.lg1.AgfQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2913 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, I agree magnets do work (just like springs)... I don't think anybody with a little logic could disagree with this. The work done by the magnet is simply the amount of force exercised by the magnet over the distance which this force acts on something. If [W] denotes work, [F] force, [m] mass, [a] acceleration, [v] velocity, [d] distance traveled ...according to the basic formula [W=fd] meaning that if a magnets attract ANY mass with a force of 1 Newton over the distance of 1 meter than the work done by/against the magnet will equal to 1 Joule. NOTE: that it doesn't matter if the attracted mass is 1 gram or 1 ton, the amount of work the magnet does to attract it for over 1 meter is 1 Joule, IN BOTH CASES ! You can express the work [W] done by the magnet in variety of other ways, for example [W=mad] meaning a certain mass [m] accelerating at a certain rate [a] for a certain distance [d] denotes certain work done by the magnet ... or [W=0.5mv^2] meaning that a magnet attracting certain mass [m] will accelerate it to a certain velocity [v] and the expression [0.5mv^2] will represent the amount of work [W] the magnet has done. The issue whether any work has to be done AGAINST the magnet before any work is done BY the magnet, is a completely different issue and very dependent on how large the "box" is. At 10:21 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >This started out as a preliminary stab at the effects of using Greg's >magnetic ramp as an energy source. But it ends up skirting the issue, and >becomes sort of a way of conventionally explaining what's going on, in real >shallow terms :-). > >First, magnets have been doing work ever since we started using them. When >you put a magnet up on the refrigerator, it does work as it pulls your hand >with it toward the metal. You do an equivalent amount of work when you >un-stick it later, but the magnet still did work. The magnet's work was >balanced by your work. > >Gravity also does work, no? When you climb up a flight of stairs, you do >lots of work to counter gravity. If you fall back down, gravity has done >work. The system is balanced (even if you are not). > >In a permanent-magnet motor, the magnets are doing work. It is balanced by >the work of the electromagnets, using electricity as their energy source. > >Permanent magnets are in wide use, and they are doing work. It's just that >their work is usually balanced by energies that we provide. > >Greg's ramp is using one form of energy (gravitational) that we usually >have to balance with our own energy, to offset another form of energy >(magnetic) that we also usually have to balance with our own efforts. No >big deal, right? > >Does anyone ever wonder whether we're depleting the Earth's gravitational >energy when we fall down? > >In the same way, we've never stopped to wonder what the *efffects* of using >magnets may be. Greg's asking a good question that maybe should be answered >for our current, "conventional" widespread use of magnets. > > >Dan > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 19:06:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA09144; Fri, 2 May 1997 19:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 19:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502190537.00a5e1b4@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:05:39 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"R_L-M1.0.gE2.RsfQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2914 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ...and the sum of earth's angular momentum + the heat radiated into space after we slowed down the earth a little with our infernal device, should be equal to the earth's angular momentum before we starting to perform our evil deed. ...I don't understand why any one of you would like to limit the conservation of energy "generalization" ONLY to the mechanical angular momentum. Electrical energy or EM radiation like heat are as "good" forms of energy as mechanical momentum. If these energies could, they would sue you for unfair discrimination (anthropomorphically speaking...) P.S. I remember reading somewhere that the earth's rotation rate is altered by man-made water reservoirs. (ballerina effect) At 10:36 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >Larry Wharton wrote: >> No such invention can possibly work because of conservation of angular >> momentum. If the Earth's rotation slows down then the angular momentum >> would decrease and that is not allowed. Only if angular momentum is >> exchanged with some third body orbiting the Earth, like the Moon, such that >> the total is constant could this idea work. Through the years there have >> been many schemes like this proposed and they all don't involve the Moon >> and they all don't work. > >The moon has nothing to do with this particular invention. >I will dig out some info about this device and post a >description. > >For sure, angular momentum must be conserved in a closed system. >But the earth-moon is not a closed system. In fact, given >an ample amount of time, the only truly closed system is >the entire universe -- maybe not even that. > >In this particular invention, angular momentum is transferred >from the body of the earth, to an electro-magnetic field and/or >mechanical device which can do useful work on or near the earth's >surface, and then to waste heat at the surface and in the >atmosphere, and eventually radiated into space. > >Regards, >Robert Stirniman > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 19:49:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA29951; Fri, 2 May 1997 19:49:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 19:49:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502194910.00a69d00@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:49:11 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Looking for meter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Y1IDC1.0.uJ7.dUgQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2915 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tucker Surplus gas some 6 digit desktop DMM with 10uA DC range. I gave seen other equipment in other catalogs but don't want to go and search through stack of ne right now. If you are still unsuccessful in finding what you need, I'll browse. Let me know At 12:43 PM 5/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >I am trying to locate a reasonably priced meter to measure very low >currents (in nA) and voltages (uV). The best I've located so far is The >TENMA AC Millivolt Meter ($175 from MCM Electronics, cat #72-450). It has >the disadvantage of being AC voltage only and analog, but goes down to a >0-300 uV range, and has amplified output for an oscilloscope. > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 19:54:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA14226; Fri, 2 May 1997 19:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 19:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502195339.00a6bdfc@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:53:41 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: permanent? magnets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"a9RGF3.0.BU3.IZgQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2916 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, a permanent magnet not subjected to H fields above the B/H curve demagnetization knee, or curie temperature or critical G shock, will last forever. At 05:53 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >I don't have any references, but I know the standard theory is, and my >experience has been, so long as you do not introduce reverse fields large >enough to actually start to demagnetize a magnet, a "good" magnet is not in >any measurable way effected by use. ie you can use it in reversible field >configurations indefinitely without in any way "consuming" its energy. Does >anyone else have any other opinions? > > > > Keasy > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 21:55:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA27844; Fri, 2 May 1997 21:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 21:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502215412.00a68180@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 21:54:16 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-saOc2.0.wo6.PKiQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2917 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I disagree. If you look at Greg's description below, the inclined release track is there ONLY to overcome the frictional losses of the entry track. Greg clearly states "zero ball energy at the entry point...", also the statement "... with the Black Box section removed..." is significant. In Greg's device the ball does NOT suffer repulsion as it enters the BlackBox, on the contrary, the ball is always attracted to the entry point. The reason for the calibrated release track is simple. If the release track was not used and the ball was far away from the Black Box on the level entry track only, the magnetic attraction would not be strong enough to get the ball moving from such a distance. Please remember that static friction is greater than dynamic (moving) friction. By using the inclined release track Greg overcomes the starting friction and is able to measure the work [W=Fd] over a large distance even if the distance [d] is is large and [F] to small to get the ball rolling. Please remember that if the Black Box was absent, the system of the release and exit track would impart exactly ZERO kinetic energy to the ball at the entry point (end of the entry track) The dilution of the back attraction force over a large distance is what worries me, and I dare to state that this is the only possible flaw in Greg's analysis. (back-attraction force integrated over exit distance). All of the other objections that people have been voicing (ie. demagnetization of the magnets, input energy, eddy currents, etc..) are silly, insignificant and could be all avoided if they took the time to understand what Greg is writing. Permanent magnets do not get demagnetized by performing work in the form of ferrite attraction. Demagnetization and magnet breakdown only happens if you push them to hard (ie. excessive H field from a coil or another stronger magnet, mechanical shock over critical G and thermal curie point). Almost everything can be destroyed if you push it to hard, it doesn't mean that it gets used up otherwise... At 11:34 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >One thing that bothers me is that Greg says the release track is ramped >at about 5 deg - so this rig DOES have an input energy At 10:24 AM 5/3/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >>...with the "Black Box" section removed and varying the release >>point to get the ball to just roll to the end of the 1mtr entry track >>without dropping over the end. This I assumed gave me as close as zero >>ball energy at the entry point of the "Black Box" as possible. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 22:12:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA29716; Fri, 2 May 1997 22:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:12:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: bailey@best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:11:40 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated Resent-Message-ID: <"lAvoa2.0.9G7.eaiQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2918 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ Most New Data Files are at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ May 3, 1997 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 4, No. 12, April 1997 So You Want To Be Involved In New Energy? Calibration For Cold Fusion Cold Fusion Bibliography Updated! NASA Preparing For The Future Gravitation Shielding Possible The Nature Of The Aether World Energy Report Letter From Hal Puthoff (On SHARP Drive) Added: Proceedings of The 1996 International Conference On New Ideas In Natural Sciences (Forward, Conclusions, and Videotapes Available) Updated: Fabulous Facts File, Websites, People, Organizations, etc. Site Counter = 98,515 Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 22:25:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA00994; Fri, 2 May 1997 22:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502222428.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:24:30 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"vFECI3.0.RF.imiQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2919 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I agree to the paragraph below. Does Greg disagree ? At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >But in the case of an RLC in series >with a constant current power supply the supply voltage will have to >increase in order for the current to remain constant as the voltage >across the inductor increases trying to reduce the current such that the >energy remains the same in the inductor, thus energy in the inductor >will increase as L increases because the current has NOT changed >(assuming the P/S has done its job) - and this extra energy has come >from the power supply. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 22:32:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA01719; Fri, 2 May 1997 22:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223143.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:31:45 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8DWD6.0.lQ.OtiQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2920 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I agree. The voltage across the coil must increase and be positive to keep the coil current constant. That is what constant-current P/S does. If this P/S wasn't doing its job than the I would decrease as the L increased. The more interesting question is whether the work [W=Fd] done by the inductor when attracting the ferrite is done at the expense of stored electrical energy [0.5LI^2] ????????????? No conservation of energy arguments allowed here ! :-) At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >The point of contention has to do with the SIGN of the voltage across >the coil. The maths say it is positive. Greg Watson says it is negative >- but he has not responded to that point. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 22:34:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA17513; Fri, 2 May 1997 22:34:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:34:24 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223421.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:34:22 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"P91vQ3.0.YH4.UviQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2921 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Err.. I have a problem with: "...due to a positive voltage induced across the L..." Please rephrase and elaborate. ... At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >In the case of a constant-voltage P/S in series with the RLC there would >be no voltage change across the P/S but the current in R would drop due >to a positive voltage induced across the L. > > >L R >////--0------<><><><>----------0 `````````` >//// ^ | | >//// | dL/dt V | P/S | >////--0------------------------0 |......... > >--- >Maxwell > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 22:38:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA02320; Fri, 2 May 1997 22:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223748.00a7d2e4@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:37:50 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "Francis J. Stenger" From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qySOh2.0.0a.CziQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2922 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: > >OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >approach. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 23:00:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA20335; Fri, 2 May 1997 23:00:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 23:00:49 -0700 Message-ID: <336AD443.2938@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 15:29:31 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects References: <3.0.32.19970502223748.00a7d2e4@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R2bTM.0.ez4.GIjQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2923 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite > centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and > pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. I agree, even though I haven't seen the referenced post. > At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: > > > >OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were > >doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce > >friction to a mimimum Wouldn't work. >> - but that's old news and Greg probably has good > >reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction > >approach. Hi Guys, Seems I haven't received the post you refer to, anyhow the reason I use a alum "U" channel for the ball to roll on is the requirement for the ball to be in a balanced magnetic state if reference to the side to side magnetic attraction forces exerted by the two side magnet assy. The alum channel allows for some unbalanced sideways magnetic forces to exist. To be pulled side ways off the track requires the ball to be pulled up and over the side of the alum track. I tried tubing but found this allows side ways slop and greatly reduces the graduated mag ramp forces. For max pull into the graduated field, side to side magnetic influences must be reduced to less than 5%. The alum channel didn't just happen. it was the best of several methods, considering the job it has to do. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 2 23:38:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA07243; Fri, 2 May 1997 23:38:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 23:38:20 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Cc: vortext-L@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:31:33 PST Subject: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info Message-ID: <19970220.233139.11894.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,3-10 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"ee6Eg2.0.0n1.NrjQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2924 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I posted a Web page about the invention of Wesley Gary and his magnet motor including the missing diagrams that several of you wanted but I could not attach to email for some reason involving my mail server. The URL of the "Gary Effect" page is: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810 Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 00:40:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA28736; Sat, 3 May 1997 00:39:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 00:39:59 -0700 Message-ID: <336AF94A.7157@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 01:37:30 -0700 From: Jerry Decker Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info References: <19970220.233139.11894.0.tv@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"93Ijv.0.v07.FlkQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2925 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tim! Excellent! Thanks, will add the URL.... -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 01:06:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA13259; Sat, 3 May 1997 01:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 01:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 00:10:49 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects Resent-Message-ID: <"Vu9mO2.0.zE3.l7lQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2926 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:37 PM 5/2/97, Epitaxy wrote: >Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. A pendulum like so is useful (B are bearings, rest is rigid): ------B------------B----- \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \/ xx > >At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >>OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >>doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >>friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >>reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >>approach. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 01:20:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA14865; Sat, 3 May 1997 01:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 01:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <336AF513.24C9@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 17:49:31 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IkiGe2.0.Ae3.CLlQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2927 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > At 10:37 PM 5/2/97, Epitaxy wrote: > >Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite > >centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and > >pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. > > A pendulum like so is useful (B are bearings, rest is rigid): > > ------B------------B----- > \ / > \ / > \ / > \ / > \ / > \/ > xx > > > > >At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: > >> > >>OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were > >>doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce > >>friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good > >>reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction > >>approach. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner Hi Guys, Nice pendulum idea Horace. Sorry, but I can't use it. Will file it for future reference. Check out the patent below to get a idea of what is happening in the "Black Box" : http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4215330 Just click on the link, it will load the first page of the patent. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 06:41:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA15614; Sat, 3 May 1997 06:41:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 06:41:05 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 06:40:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199705031340.GAA15335@mx1.eskimo.com> X-Sender: johnnyfg@mail.algonet.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) Subject: Strange pattern on a glass-window Resent-Message-ID: <"DvVkB1.0.Op3.j1qQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2928 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have updated my WEB-pages with some pictures showing strange pattern on a glass-window that appears when they are misty... Kind of reminds me about the David Hammel story. exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 08:32:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA12943; Sat, 3 May 1997 08:32:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 08:32:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Keasy@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970503113042_-1031323492@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! Resent-Message-ID: <"oQpO41.0.6A3.qfrQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2929 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Regarding this "don't slow down the earth!" issue everyone knows the rotation rate of the earth (earth-moon system, actually) is constantly slowing down because of tidal effects --- a very small change, however. An interesting calculation shows what will eventually happen. Results are posted at http://members.aol.com/Keasy and follow the earth/moon link. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 11:04:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA21206 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 11:04:17 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:04:17 -0700 X-Envelope-From: KngDoug@aol.com Sat May 3 11:04:15 1997 Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com (emout18.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.44]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA21110 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 11:04:05 -0700 From: KngDoug@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id OAA22447 for freenrg-l@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 14:03:31 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 14:03:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970503140330_1618095217@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: getting off the list X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: guys I've misplaced my letter that explains how to get off the list.... I really have enjoyed the list, but have to much school work to keep up...maybe I'll get back on in the summer though. If someone could just send an e-mail to me and let me know how to unsubscribe from the list I'd appreciate it. Doug KngDoug@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 11:11:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA05396; Sat, 3 May 1997 11:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705031807.LAA09874@claim.goldrush.com> From: "WESLY" To: Subject: coler document Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:36:05 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dHk_92.0.DK1.8_tQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2930 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: TO ALL: Can anyone tell me where I can get the original HANS COLER DOCUMENT in GERMAN? THANKS WES From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 11:27:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA23701; Sat, 3 May 1997 11:27:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:27:08 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 14:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970503142631_-1299795460@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple OU Device Resent-Message-ID: <"zrwid.0.Eo5.xDuQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2931 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all, This is in response to Greg's posting of his set up and testing with his linear unit. Several questions/comments/suggestions: 1. How is it determined that the exit section is the same level as the entry section? This is of course critical. 2. If the magnets in the "black box" are in a configuration such that the magnetic circuit can be closed to minimize effects outside the "black box" volume that might be useful to consider. 3. What happens if you add a release ramp (properly set up as in #1) on the left of the exit ramp and did the experiment WITH THE BLACK BOX REVERSED, from left to right? If you do this and get the same results as from right to left (without touching anything else) but turning the "black box" around, then things are much more interesting. If, in addition, you measure the fields at the entry point and end of exit ramp and they are on the same order (in any direction) as the earth's magnetic field, then it does become difficult to understand why it is not OU. There are undoubtedly other useful approaches to understanding this OU device better but these come to mind. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 12:01:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA28273; Sat, 3 May 1997 12:01:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 12:01:12 -0700 Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:55:42 +0200 Message-ID: X-Sender: BUSHI@multinet.net.il X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Bushi@multinet.net.il (Lev Robert) Subject: Free Energy receiver Resent-Message-ID: <"SuCrL2.0.Yv6.sjuQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2932 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All Why should you work so hard in order to obtain free energy when there are devices like the Radiant Energy. I read about it some time ago in the Tesla page. There is a patent on this too from 1901 "Utilization of Radiant Energy. Since the group is now fairly mature in coil design and since this kind of energy generation has no moving parts perhaps the has arived to give it a try. Robert BUSHILEV From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 12:23:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA30867 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 12:23:34 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 12:23:34 -0700 X-Envelope-From: rgd872@leonard.anu.edu.au Sat May 3 12:23:32 1997 Received: from anugpo.anu.edu.au (anugpo.anu.edu.au [150.203.2.6]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA30838 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 12:23:30 -0700 Received: from leonard.anu.edu.au (rgd872@leonard.anu.edu.au [150.203.2.15]) by anugpo.anu.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA04402 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 05:23:27 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (rgd872@localhost) by leonard.anu.edu.au (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA05282 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 05:23:25 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: leonard.anu.edu.au: rgd872 owned process doing -bs Old-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 05:23:24 +1000 (EST) From: Rodney Davies To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free Energy receiver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Hi Robert, On Sat, 3 May 1997, Lev Robert wrote: > Hi All > Why should you work so hard in order to obtain free energy when there are > devices like the Radiant Energy. I read about it some time ago in the Tesla > page. There is a patent on this too from 1901 "Utilization of Radiant > Energy. Since the group is now fairly mature in coil design and since this > kind of energy generation has no moving parts perhaps the has arived to give > it a try. > Robert > BUSHILEV Interesting you should mention that... A couple of years ago I did a few experiments of several aparatii made from the same patent (patent #685,957, 1901) with pleasing results. Although they were made from "junk" simply chucked together, I was able to obtain a steady current. I've seen later schematic diagram variations on the patent to show that instead of having a load in parallel with the capacitor, try having a spark-gap...however, I have not tried this configuration as yet... The only thing that I'd really like to know is some discrete farad values for the capacitor....I've tried from as low as pico-farads to 10,000uF... Still, the only thing I noticed that changed with the farad change was current...voltage seemed to stay fairly constant. The only way I managed to change voltage was by the size of the receiving panel, its elevation and N,S,E,W orientation... The highest values I managed to obtain one time was 6.4 volts @ 460mA DC constant for 0.5 hours... However, without knowing some discrete values, ie panel size, height, etc and capacitor values, it made the experiments too open for many variables...but I'm hoping to work something out one day soon... :-) An idea I have is not to have the receiving panel in a stationary position, but infact rotating in some particular direction... Hopefully to obtain 'more' free electrons... Anyway, I'd like to hear from you (and of course others) who may have used this patent design for various experiments and their results... Catchya later! Rod "Electric power is everywhere present in unlimited quantities and can drive the world's machinery without the need of coal, oil gas, or any other fuels." -- Nikola Tesla From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 14:08:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA25590 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 14:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 14:08:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sat May 3 14:07:42 1997 Received: from hil-img-10.compuserve.com (hil-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.177.140]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA25356 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 14:07:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA19702; Sat, 3 May 1997 17:06:37 -0400 Old-Date: 03 May 97 16:47:03 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970503204702_515664.456256_CHU66-45@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 23 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Free Energy receiver Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Contents: 1 Internet Message Header 2 ================================= Begin Part 1 ================================= Topic: Internet Message Header Format: ASCII Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id PAA06597; Sat, 3 May 1997 15:02:24 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA28272; Sat, 3 May 1997 12:01:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 12:01:12 -0700 Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:55:42 +0200 Message-ID: X-Sender: BUSHI@multinet.net.il X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Bushi@multinet.net.il (Lev Robert) Subject: Free Energy receiver Resent-Message-ID: <"SuCrL2.0.Yv6.sjuQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2932 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ========================== End Part 1 / Begin Part 2 =========================== Format: ASCII Hi All Why should you work so hard in order to obtain free energy when there are devices like the Radiant Energy. I read about it some time ago in the Tesla page. There is a patent on this too from 1901 "Utilization of Radiant Energy. Since the group is now fairly mature in coil design and since this kind of energy generation has no moving parts perhaps the has arived to give it a try. Robert BUSHILEV ================================== End Part 2 ================================== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 14:08:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA25802 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 14:08:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 14:08:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sat May 3 14:08:13 1997 Received: from arl-img-2.compuserve.com (arl-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.217.132]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA25603 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 14:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA07827; Sat, 3 May 1997 17:07:13 -0400 Old-Date: 03 May 97 16:56:26 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970503205625_515664.456256_IHJ62-59@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 23 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Contents: 1 Internet Message Header 2 ================================= Begin Part 1 ================================= Topic: Internet Message Header Format: ASCII Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id DAA21591; Sat, 3 May 1997 03:45:25 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA28735; Sat, 3 May 1997 00:39:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 00:39:59 -0700 Message-ID: <336AF94A.7157@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 01:37:30 -0700 From: Jerry Decker Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info References: <19970220.233139.11894.0.tv@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"93Ijv.0.v07.FlkQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2925 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ========================== End Part 1 / Begin Part 2 =========================== Format: ASCII Hi Tim! Excellent! Thanks, will add the URL.... -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 ================================== End Part 2 ================================== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 14:15:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA12915; Sat, 3 May 1997 14:15:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 14:15:36 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:06:07 PST Subject: Re: coler document Message-ID: <19970221.140924.9558.0.tv@juno.com> References: <199705031807.LAA09874@claim.goldrush.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-14 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"rb2kO3.0.h93.thwQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2933 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Hans Coler document was never written in German it was a British intelligence report, part of Project Paper Clip. Some of the document that it quotes however were originally in German and were translated by British Intellignence. You could inquire with the British Government archives whatever it is called. Tim On Sat, 3 May 1997 11:36:05 -0700 "WESLY" writes: >TO ALL: Can anyone tell me where I can get the original HANS COLER >DOCUMENT >in GERMAN? >THANKS WES > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 15:04:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA17960; Sat, 3 May 1997 15:03:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 15:03:55 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:07:15 +0200 Message-Id: <199705032207.AAA03491@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: This is what we are building ! Cc: newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Jmsz33.0.TO4.APxQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2934 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi to all, cause I am pretty busy with other things I did not have much time to post recently on the free-energy lists. But I wanted to keep you all updated, what we are currently building: It is a flux switch unit. Today we ordered the plastic revolver chamber to hold the iron core material. Have a look at this picture. It was drawn by Dieter Bauer and he is the one, who pushes it foward. Here is the URL for the picture: http://www.overunity.de/ecklin/fig15.gif It should be a 3 dimensional side view... I hope you can imagine how it works... We hope, that in about 1 month we can have the first measurement results... Please also check out: http://www.overunity.de/ecklin/ecklin3.htm Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: www.detours.com www.overunity.com www.berlin-city.com www.nylon-fetish.com email: harti@harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 15:17:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA19692 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 15:17:45 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 15:17:45 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sat May 3 15:17:42 1997 Received: from arl-img-4.compuserve.com (arl-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.217.134]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA19470 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 15:17:40 -0700 Received: by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA02867; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:17:08 -0400 Old-Date: 03 May 97 17:42:35 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970503214234_515664.456256_JHR51-32@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 24 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Looking for meter Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Contents: 1 Internet Message Header 2 ================================= Begin Part 1 ================================= Topic: Internet Message Header Format: ASCII Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA04562; Fri, 2 May 1997 22:51:02 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA29950; Fri, 2 May 1997 19:49:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 19:49:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502194910.00a69d00@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:49:11 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Looking for meter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Y1IDC1.0.uJ7.dUgQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2915 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ========================== End Part 1 / Begin Part 2 =========================== Format: ASCII Tucker Surplus gas some 6 digit desktop DMM with 10uA DC range. I gave seen other equipment in other catalogs but don't want to go and search through stack of ne right now. If you are still unsuccessful in finding what you need, I'll browse. Let me know At 12:43 PM 5/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >I am trying to locate a reasonably priced meter to measure very low >currents (in nA) and voltages (uV). The best I've located so far is The >TENMA AC Millivolt Meter ($175 from MCM Electronics, cat #72-450). It has >the disadvantage of being AC voltage only and analog, but goes down to a >0-300 uV range, and has amplified output for an oscilloscope. > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner > > > ================================== End Part 2 ================================== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 16:29:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA27654 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 16:29:27 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 16:29:27 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sat May 3 16:29:24 1997 Received: from hil-img-5.compuserve.com (hil-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.177.135]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA27431 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 16:29:23 -0700 Received: by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id TAA29811; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:28:53 -0400 Old-Date: 03 May 97 19:02:33 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970503230232_515664.456256_JHG47-60@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 24 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 coler document Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Contents: 1 Internet Message Header 2 * Latin-1 * ================================= Begin Part 1 ================================= Topic: Internet Message Header Format: ASCII Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-9.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id OAA26851; Sat, 3 May 1997 14:12:32 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA05395; Sat, 3 May 1997 11:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705031807.LAA09874@claim.goldrush.com> From: "WESLY" To: Subject: coler document Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:36:05 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dHk_92.0.DK1.8_tQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2930 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ========================== End Part 1 / Begin Part 2 =========================== Format: LATIN-1 TO ALL: Can anyone tell me where I can get the original HANS COLER DOCUMENT in GERMAN? THANKS WES ================================== End Part 2 ================================== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 16:50:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA13368; Sat, 3 May 1997 16:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 16:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 16:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705032350.QAA13321@mx2.eskimo.com> X-Sender: johnnyfg@mail.algonet.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) Subject: Re: coler document Resent-Message-ID: <"9pA_M3.0.nG3.DzyQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2935 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >The Hans Coler document was never written in German it was a British >intelligence report, part of Project Paper Clip. Some of the document >that it quotes however were originally in German and were translated by >British Intellignence. You could inquire with the British Government >archives whatever it is called. I have a copy of the Hans Coler report from the British Imperial War museum in London. Its on my WEB-pages found thru my signature-file below. exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 17:05:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA15665 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 17:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:05:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sat May 3 17:04:50 1997 Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com (arl-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.217.135]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA15431 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 17:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA13377; Sat, 3 May 1997 20:03:49 -0400 Old-Date: 03 May 97 19:28:57 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970503232856_515664.456256_JHL66-56@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 24 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Strange pattern on a glass-window Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Contents: 1 Internet Message Header 2 ================================= Begin Part 1 ================================= Topic: Internet Message Header Format: ASCII Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id JAA14375; Sat, 3 May 1997 09:42:15 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA15613; Sat, 3 May 1997 06:41:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 06:41:05 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 06:40:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199705031340.GAA15335@mx1.eskimo.com> X-Sender: johnnyfg@mail.algonet.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) Subject: Strange pattern on a glass-window Resent-Message-ID: <"DvVkB1.0.Op3.j1qQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2928 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ========================== End Part 1 / Begin Part 2 =========================== Format: ASCII I have updated my WEB-pages with some pictures showing strange pattern on a glass-window that appears when they are misty... Kind of reminds me about the David Hammel story. exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm ================================== End Part 2 ================================== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 17:19:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA17010; Sat, 3 May 1997 17:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970504094814.2b7f9cc6@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 09:48:14 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Free Energy receiver In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8k9px.0.g94.kNzQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2936 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:55 PM 5/3/97 +0200, you wrote: >Hi All >Why should you work so hard in order to obtain free energy when there are >devices like the Radiant Energy. I read about it some time ago in the Tesla >page. There is a patent on this too from 1901 "Utilization of Radiant >Energy. Since the group is now fairly mature in coil design and since this >kind of energy generation has no moving parts perhaps the has arived to give >it a try. >Robert >BUSHILEV > > >Correct me if I am wrong But I believe Tesla never actually constructed this device but only imagined it. Note that this is not problem most of his inventions he conceived this way and then had them constructed by his engineers and he claimed they always worked. Geoff Egel http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 17:35:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA00748; Sat, 3 May 1997 17:32:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:32:36 -0700 Message-ID: <336BD903.1294@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 10:02:03 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Device References: <970503142631_-1299795460@emout07.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FvSQ5.0.cB.aazQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2937 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keasy@aol.com wrote: > > To all, > This is in response to Greg's posting of his set up and testing with his > linear unit. > Several questions/comments/suggestions: > 1. How is it determined that the exit section is the same level as the > entry section? This is of course critical. By sighting along the "U" channels. Its not really critical. > 2. If the magnets in the "black box" are in a configuration such that > the magnetic circuit can be closed to minimize effects outside the "black > box" volume that might be useful to consider. Very difficult. > 3. What happens if you add a release ramp (properly set up as in #1) on > the left of the exit ramp and did the experiment WITH THE BLACK BOX REVERSED, > from left to right? If you do this and get the same results as from right to > left (without touching anything else) but turning the "black box" around, > then things are much more interesting. Hadn't thought of that. I have however taken it appart and put it together many times in many different ways. Still works. > If, in addition, you measure the > fields at the entry point and end of exit ramp and they are on the same order > (in any direction) as the earth's magnetic field, then it does become > difficult to understand why it is not OU. There are no real entry and exit points. > There are undoubtedly other useful approaches to understanding this OU > device better but these come to mind. > > Ken Keasy@aol.com Hi Ken, Thanks for the input. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 18:27:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA04218; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:21:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 18:21:15 -0700 Message-ID: <336BE3CD.1503@bciu.k12.pa.us> Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:18:10 -0400 From: "O'Connor" Reply-To: poconnor@bciu.k12.pa.us X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: LIGHTNING References: <970503111849_-97920586@emout11.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kWuja2.0.W11.2I-Qp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2939 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'm just wondering if anyone else out there is wondering why lightning is not being harnessed for power usage. I am positively sure that we have enough technology to capture/harness the energy...but we aren't using it in our homes ect yet... -Shannon ======================== = "Eschew Obfuscation" = ======================== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 18:28:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA04200; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:21:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 18:21:06 -0700 Message-ID: <336BE3BD.20ED@bciu.k12.pa.us> Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:17:54 -0400 From: "O'Connor" Reply-To: poconnor@bciu.k12.pa.us X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Positive Nrg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lnRts2.0.S11.2I-Qp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2938 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Does anyone have any opinions on telekenisis? Any unique ways of looking at it, or any possible ways of showing that it is a reality? Personally, I believe in it 100%, but I don't have much logical proof behind it. I believe that every object contains a certain amount of positive nrg, and that nothing unreal exists...but I need some other observations and ideas. Please share whatever is on your mind. -Shannon "Eschew Obfuscation" From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 18:51:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA08064 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:51:57 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 18:51:57 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sat May 3 18:51:53 1997 Received: from hil-img-8.compuserve.com (hil-img-8.compuserve.com [149.174.177.138]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA07844 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:51:51 -0700 Received: by hil-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id VAA25939; Sat, 3 May 1997 21:51:20 -0400 Old-Date: 03 May 97 21:36:12 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504013611_515664.456256_CHU36-21@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 23 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: coler document Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Contents: 1 Internet Message Header 2 ================================= Begin Part 1 ================================= Topic: Internet Message Header Format: ASCII Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id TAA12505; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:52:16 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA13367; Sat, 3 May 1997 16:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 16:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 16:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705032350.QAA13321@mx2.eskimo.com> X-Sender: johnnyfg@mail.algonet.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) Subject: Re: coler document Resent-Message-ID: <"9pA_M3.0.nG3.DzyQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2935 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ========================== End Part 1 / Begin Part 2 =========================== Format: ASCII >The Hans Coler document was never written in German it was a British >intelligence report, part of Project Paper Clip. Some of the document >that it quotes however were originally in German and were translated by >British Intellignence. You could inquire with the British Government >archives whatever it is called. I have a copy of the Hans Coler report from the British Imperial War museum in London. Its on my WEB-pages found thru my signature-file below. exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm ================================== End Part 2 ================================== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 18:52:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA24370; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 18:44:37 -0700 (PDT) From: jgassaway@webzone.net Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970504014501.0069cbdc@webzone.net> X-Sender: jgassaway@webzone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 20:45:01 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #157 Resent-Message-ID: <"JpBKu3.0.iy5.3e-Qp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2940 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: get me off the list1At 06:28 PM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >freenrg-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 157 > >Today's Topics: > Simple OU Device > Simple Ou Device > Re: Simple OU Device effects > Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! > Re: Looking for meter > Re: permanent? magnets > Re: Simple OU Device effects > The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated > Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? > Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? > Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? > Re: Simple OU Device effects > Re: Simple OU Device effects > Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info > Re: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info > Re: Simple OU Device effects > Re: Simple OU Device effects > Strange pattern on a glass-window > Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! > coler document > Simple OU Device > Free Energy receiver > Re: coler document > This is what we are building ! > Re: coler document > Re: Free Energy receiver > Re: Simple OU Device > LIGHTNING >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 10:24:05 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, > freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Simple OU Device >Message-ID: <336A8CAD.2EC@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >HI All, > >Thanks for all the feedback. I vaule it all. > >Here is my test setup and the results I get with my linear unit. > > >Test Setup: >=========== > >The test setup is composed of 4 sections, all joined end to end and made >as level as possible. The release is on the right side and the exit is >on the left. The sections are composed of 12mm alum "U" channel upon >which a 12mm steel boll rolls from right to left. > > ......Exit......Black Box.......Entry.......Release > >1) Release section: > This is a 100mm section of alum 12mm alum "U" channel attached to the >entry track. The release section is bent up at approx 5 deg. A small >notch has been filed up the ramp as a index to assist the ball being >released every time at the same position. The notch position was >determined with the "Black Box" section removed and varying the release >point to get the ball to just roll to the end of the 1mtr entry track >without dropping over the end. This I assumed gave me as close as zero >ball energy at the entry point of the "Black Box" as possible. > >2) Entry section: > This is a 1mtr long section of 12mm alum "U" channel as level as I can >make it. > >3) Black Box Section: > This unit contains magnets and more of the 12mm alum "U" channel. The >entry and exit track are at the same level. The ball is pulled up the >ramp by a graduated B field. > >4) Exit section: > This is a 1mtr long sectin of 12mm alum "U" channel as level as I can >make it. > >All sections are level and at the same height. > > >Test Results: >============= > >The steel ball is placed on the "calibrated" release notch and released. > >It roll down the release ramp and onto the entry track. > >As it rolls along the entry track, the ball starts to slow. > >Then it gets to with-in 75-100mm from the end of the entry track or from >the start of the "Black Box" section. the ball starts rolling at a >constant speed and slightly accelerates as it crosses over into the >"Black Box" section. > >It leaves the "Black Box" section showing some slight drag back with-in >the first 25-50mm and then happily rolls off the end of the 1 mtr exit >track. > > >Further Testing: >================ > >I have constructed a working three ramp unit to investigate the change >in "Black Box" input alterations due to the influence of the exit >field. The testing here was to investigate the problems in attempting >to close the loop. I could not get two units oriented at right angles >to work due to the complexs interactions of the exit and entry fields. >My idea here was to use 4 units set a right angles to each other to form >a square and thus close the loop. The three unit linear model does >work. > > >Conclusions on the Linear Unit: >=============================== > >A real energy gain is shown as well as the ability to move a mass. The >energy gain seems to be around 20-30%. Closing the loop with such a >model seems difficult as the frictional losses in returning the ball to >the enrty point would be large. > > >Rotary Unit: >============ > >My current work is centered on a rotary unit, quite different to the >above. > > >Long Term Intentions: >===================== > >I do not intend to manuf a thing. A license to use the technology will >be available to any one who wishes to use it at a VERY LOW COST. My >current thinking is around $100 upfront and $1 / 1kw generation capacity >per unit on a decreasing sliding scale. I believe if the technology is >available cheaply enough, its simpler and less costly in the long run to >license it than steal it. > >As to getting rich, if my shareholders do, so will I. > > >References: >=========== > >US Patent 4,215,330 issued 29 July, 1980. Check it out. > > >Test Group: >=========== > >This patent was posted to the 9 members of my test group. While is is >not my device, is is close and an understanding of the patent would be >of benefit. To my knowledge, 4 members have constructed actual units. >I included in the group several critics to help keep us all honest. > >, >, >, *Constructed* >, *Constructed* >, *Constructed* >, *Constructed* >, *Working on a unit* >, >, >, *Constructed* > > >The group was formed to reduce list traffic and help to keep discussions >in control. If you wish to jon the group and be involved in actual >construction and discussions please let me know. > >I should point out that the guys at Earth Tech are willing to test a >"closed loop unit" unit at no charge. I have accepted. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > 61 18 833 461 Mobile >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 11:11:17 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, > freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Simple Ou Device >Message-ID: <336A97BD.11AE@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Hi All, > >Here is the link to the Patent 4,215,330 : > >Right click on each image/page to save it to disk and then use any gif >viewer to view or print it. > >This is not my device, but is close enough for you to build if you want >to have a go and experiment. It does work. > >http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4215330 > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > 61 18 833 461 Mobile >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 18:52:47 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502185246.00a5e1b4@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Yes, I agree magnets do work (just like springs)... I don't think anybody >with a little logic could disagree with this. > > >The work done by the magnet is simply the amount of force exercised by the >magnet over the distance which this force acts on something. > >If [W] denotes work, [F] force, [m] mass, [a] acceleration, [v] velocity, >[d] distance traveled > >...according to the basic formula [W=fd] meaning that if a magnets attract >ANY mass with a force of 1 Newton over the distance of 1 meter than the >work done by/against the magnet will equal to 1 Joule. > >NOTE: that it doesn't matter if the attracted mass is 1 gram or 1 ton, the >amount of work the magnet does to attract it for over 1 meter is 1 Joule, >IN BOTH CASES ! > >You can express the work [W] done by the magnet in variety of other ways, >for example [W=mad] meaning a certain mass [m] accelerating at a certain >rate [a] for a certain distance [d] denotes certain work done by the magnet > >... or [W=0.5mv^2] meaning that a magnet attracting certain mass [m] will >accelerate it to a certain velocity [v] and the expression [0.5mv^2] will >represent the amount of work [W] the magnet has done. > > >The issue whether any work has to be done AGAINST the magnet before any >work is done BY the magnet, is a completely different issue and very >dependent on how large the "box" is. > > > > >At 10:21 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>This started out as a preliminary stab at the effects of using Greg's >>magnetic ramp as an energy source. But it ends up skirting the issue, and >>becomes sort of a way of conventionally explaining what's going on, in real >>shallow terms :-). >> >>First, magnets have been doing work ever since we started using them. When >>you put a magnet up on the refrigerator, it does work as it pulls your hand >>with it toward the metal. You do an equivalent amount of work when you >>un-stick it later, but the magnet still did work. The magnet's work was >>balanced by your work. >> >>Gravity also does work, no? When you climb up a flight of stairs, you do >>lots of work to counter gravity. If you fall back down, gravity has done >>work. The system is balanced (even if you are not). >> >>In a permanent-magnet motor, the magnets are doing work. It is balanced by >>the work of the electromagnets, using electricity as their energy source. >> >>Permanent magnets are in wide use, and they are doing work. It's just that >>their work is usually balanced by energies that we provide. >> >>Greg's ramp is using one form of energy (gravitational) that we usually >>have to balance with our own energy, to offset another form of energy >>(magnetic) that we also usually have to balance with our own efforts. No >>big deal, right? >> >>Does anyone ever wonder whether we're depleting the Earth's gravitational >>energy when we fall down? >> >>In the same way, we've never stopped to wonder what the *efffects* of using >>magnets may be. Greg's asking a good question that maybe should be answered >>for our current, "conventional" widespread use of magnets. >> >> >>Dan >> >> >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:05:39 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502190537.00a5e1b4@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >...and the sum of earth's angular momentum + the heat radiated into space >after we slowed down the earth a little with our infernal device, should be >equal to the earth's angular momentum before we starting to perform our >evil deed. > >...I don't understand why any one of you would like to limit the >conservation of energy "generalization" ONLY to the mechanical angular >momentum. Electrical energy or EM radiation like heat are as "good" forms >of energy as mechanical momentum. > >If these energies could, they would sue you for unfair discrimination >(anthropomorphically speaking...) > >P.S. > >I remember reading somewhere that the earth's rotation rate is altered by >man-made water reservoirs. (ballerina effect) > >At 10:36 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>Larry Wharton wrote: >>> No such invention can possibly work because of conservation of angular >>> momentum. If the Earth's rotation slows down then the angular momentum >>> would decrease and that is not allowed. Only if angular momentum is >>> exchanged with some third body orbiting the Earth, like the Moon, such that >>> the total is constant could this idea work. Through the years there have >>> been many schemes like this proposed and they all don't involve the Moon >>> and they all don't work. >> >>The moon has nothing to do with this particular invention. >>I will dig out some info about this device and post a >>description. >> >>For sure, angular momentum must be conserved in a closed system. >>But the earth-moon is not a closed system. In fact, given >>an ample amount of time, the only truly closed system is >>the entire universe -- maybe not even that. >> >>In this particular invention, angular momentum is transferred >>from the body of the earth, to an electro-magnetic field and/or >>mechanical device which can do useful work on or near the earth's >>surface, and then to waste heat at the surface and in the >>atmosphere, and eventually radiated into space. >> >>Regards, >>Robert Stirniman >> >> >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:49:11 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Looking for meter >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502194910.00a69d00@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Tucker Surplus gas some 6 digit desktop DMM with 10uA DC range. I gave >seen other equipment in other catalogs but don't want to go and search >through stack of ne right now. If you are still unsuccessful in finding >what you need, I'll browse. Let me know > >At 12:43 PM 5/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >>I am trying to locate a reasonably priced meter to measure very low >>currents (in nA) and voltages (uV). The best I've located so far is The >>TENMA AC Millivolt Meter ($175 from MCM Electronics, cat #72-450). It has >>the disadvantage of being AC voltage only and analog, but goes down to a >>0-300 uV range, and has amplified output for an oscilloscope. >> >>Regards, >> >>Horace Heffner >> >> >> >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:53:41 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: permanent? magnets >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502195339.00a6bdfc@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Yes, a permanent magnet not subjected to H fields above the B/H curve >demagnetization knee, or curie temperature or critical G shock, will last >forever. > > >At 05:53 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >>I don't have any references, but I know the standard theory is, and my >>experience has been, so long as you do not introduce reverse fields large >>enough to actually start to demagnetize a magnet, a "good" magnet is not in >>any measurable way effected by use. ie you can use it in reversible field >>configurations indefinitely without in any way "consuming" its energy. Does >>anyone else have any other opinions? >> >> >> >> Keasy >> >> >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 21:54:16 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502215412.00a68180@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I disagree. If you look at Greg's description below, the inclined release >track is there ONLY to overcome the frictional losses of the entry track. >Greg clearly states "zero ball energy at the entry point...", also the >statement "... with the Black Box section removed..." is significant. > >In Greg's device the ball does NOT suffer repulsion as it enters the >BlackBox, on the contrary, the ball is always attracted to the entry point. > >The reason for the calibrated release track is simple. If the release >track was not used and the ball was far away from the Black Box on the >level entry track only, the magnetic attraction would not be strong enough >to get the ball moving from such a distance. Please remember that static >friction is greater than dynamic (moving) friction. By using the inclined >release track Greg overcomes the starting friction and is able to measure >the work [W=Fd] over a large distance even if the distance [d] is is large >and [F] to small to get the ball rolling. > >Please remember that if the Black Box was absent, the system of the release >and exit track would impart exactly ZERO kinetic energy to the ball at the >entry point (end of the entry track) > >The dilution of the back attraction force over a large distance is what >worries me, and I dare to state that this is the only possible flaw in >Greg's analysis. (back-attraction force integrated over exit distance). > >All of the other objections that people have been voicing (ie. >demagnetization of the magnets, input energy, eddy currents, etc..) are >silly, insignificant and could be all avoided if they took the time to >understand what Greg is writing. > >Permanent magnets do not get demagnetized by performing work in the form of >ferrite attraction. Demagnetization and magnet breakdown only happens if >you push them to hard (ie. excessive H field from a coil or another >stronger magnet, mechanical shock over critical G and thermal curie point). >Almost everything can be destroyed if you push it to hard, it doesn't mean >that it gets used up otherwise... > > > > > >At 11:34 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >>One thing that bothers me is that Greg says the release track is ramped >>at about 5 deg - so this rig DOES have an input energy > >At 10:24 AM 5/3/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >>>...with the "Black Box" section removed and varying the release >>>point to get the ball to just roll to the end of the 1mtr entry track >>>without dropping over the end. This I assumed gave me as close as zero >>>ball energy at the entry point of the "Black Box" as possible. >Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:11:40 -0800 >From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated >Message-Id: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: > >http://www.padrak.com/ine/ > >Most New Data Files are at: > >http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT > >------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ >Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions >------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ > >May 3, 1997 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 4, No. 12, April 1997 > So You Want To Be Involved In New Energy? > Calibration For Cold Fusion > Cold Fusion Bibliography Updated! > NASA Preparing For The Future > Gravitation Shielding Possible > The Nature Of The Aether > World Energy Report > Letter From Hal Puthoff (On SHARP Drive) > Added: Proceedings of The 1996 International Conference On > New Ideas In Natural Sciences (Forward, > Conclusions, and Videotapes Available) > Updated: Fabulous Facts File, > Websites, People, Organizations, etc. > Site Counter = 98,515 > >Dr. Patrick G. Bailey >President, Institute for New Energy >http://www.padrak.com/ine/ >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:24:30 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell >Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502222428.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I agree to the paragraph below. > >Does Greg disagree ? > >At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>But in the case of an RLC in series >>with a constant current power supply the supply voltage will have to >>increase in order for the current to remain constant as the voltage >>across the inductor increases trying to reduce the current such that the >>energy remains the same in the inductor, thus energy in the inductor >>will increase as L increases because the current has NOT changed >>(assuming the P/S has done its job) - and this extra energy has come >>from the power supply. >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:31:45 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell >Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223143.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I agree. The voltage across the coil must increase and be positive to keep >the coil current constant. That is what constant-current P/S does. If >this P/S wasn't doing its job than the I would decrease as the L increased. > >The more interesting question is whether the work [W=Fd] done by the >inductor when attracting the ferrite is done at the expense of stored >electrical energy [0.5LI^2] ????????????? > >No conservation of energy arguments allowed here ! :-) > >At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>The point of contention has to do with the SIGN of the voltage across >>the coil. The maths say it is positive. Greg Watson says it is negative >>- but he has not responded to that point. >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:34:22 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell >Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223421.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Err.. I have a problem with: "...due to a positive voltage induced across >the L..." > >Please rephrase and elaborate. >... > >At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>In the case of a constant-voltage P/S in series with the RLC there would >>be no voltage change across the P/S but the current in R would drop due >>to a positive voltage induced across the L. >> >> >>L R >>////--0------<><><><>----------0 `````````` >>//// ^ | | >>//// | dL/dt V | P/S | >>////--0------------------------0 |......... >> >>--- >>Maxwell >> >> >> >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:37:50 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "Francis J. Stenger" >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223748.00a7d2e4@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. > >At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >>OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >>doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >>friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >>reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >>approach. >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 15:29:31 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-ID: <336AD443.2938@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Epitaxy wrote: >> >> Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >> centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >> pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. > >I agree, even though I haven't seen the referenced post. > >> At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >> > >> >OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >> >doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >> >friction to a mimimum > >Wouldn't work. > >>> - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >> >reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >> >approach. > >Hi Guys, > >Seems I haven't received the post you refer to, anyhow the reason I use >a alum "U" channel for the ball to roll on is the requirement for the >ball to be in a balanced magnetic state if reference to the side to side >magnetic attraction forces exerted by the two side magnet assy. The >alum channel allows for some unbalanced sideways magnetic forces to >exist. To be pulled side ways off the track requires the ball to be >pulled up and over the side of the alum track. > >I tried tubing but found this allows side ways slop and greatly reduces >the graduated mag ramp forces. For max pull into the graduated field, >side to side magnetic influences must be reduced to less than 5%. > >The alum channel didn't just happen. it was the best of several methods, >considering the job it has to do. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:31:33 PST >From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) >To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com >Cc: vortext-L@eskimo.com >Subject: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info >Message-ID: <19970220.233139.11894.0.tv@juno.com> > >I posted a Web page about the invention of Wesley Gary and his magnet >motor >including the missing diagrams that several of you wanted but I could not >attach >to email for some reason involving my mail server. > >The URL of the "Gary Effect" page is: > >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810 > >Tim >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 01:37:30 -0700 >From: Jerry Decker >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info >Message-ID: <336AF94A.7157@keelynet.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Hi Tim! > >Excellent! Thanks, will add the URL.... >-- > Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 00:10:49 -0800 >From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-Id: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >At 10:37 PM 5/2/97, Epitaxy wrote: >>Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >>centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >>pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. > >A pendulum like so is useful (B are bearings, rest is rigid): > > ------B------------B----- > \ / > \ / > \ / > \ / > \ / > \/ > xx > >> >>At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >>> >>>OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >>>doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >>>friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >>>reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >>>approach. > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 17:49:31 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-ID: <336AF513.24C9@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Horace Heffner wrote: >> >> At 10:37 PM 5/2/97, Epitaxy wrote: >> >Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >> >centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >> >pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. >> >> A pendulum like so is useful (B are bearings, rest is rigid): >> >> ------B------------B----- >> \ / >> \ / >> \ / >> \ / >> \ / >> \/ >> xx >> >> > >> >At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >> >>OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >> >>doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >> >>friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >> >>reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >> >>approach. >> >> Regards, >> >> Horace Heffner > >Hi Guys, > >Nice pendulum idea Horace. Sorry, but I can't use it. Will file it for >future reference. > >Check out the patent below to get a idea of what is happening in the >"Black Box" : > >http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4215330 > >Just click on the link, it will load the first page of the patent. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 06:40:37 -0700 >From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Strange pattern on a glass-window >Message-Id: <199705031340.GAA15335@mx1.eskimo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I have updated my WEB-pages with some pictures showing strange >pattern on a glass-window that appears when they are misty... >Kind of reminds me about the David Hammel story. >exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! >mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se >http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:30:43 -0400 (EDT) >From: Keasy@aol.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! >Message-ID: <970503113042_-1031323492@emout07.mail.aol.com> > >Regarding this "don't slow down the earth!" issue everyone knows the rotation >rate of the earth (earth-moon system, actually) is constantly slowing down >because of tidal effects --- a very small change, however. An interesting >calculation shows what will eventually happen. Results are posted at >http://members.aol.com/Keasy and follow the earth/moon link. >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:36:05 -0700 >From: "WESLY" >To: >Subject: coler document >Message-Id: <199705031807.LAA09874@claim.goldrush.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >TO ALL: Can anyone tell me where I can get the original HANS COLER DOCUMENT >in GERMAN? >THANKS WES >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 14:26:32 -0400 (EDT) >From: Keasy@aol.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Simple OU Device >Message-ID: <970503142631_-1299795460@emout07.mail.aol.com> > >To all, > This is in response to Greg's posting of his set up and testing with his >linear unit. > Several questions/comments/suggestions: > 1. How is it determined that the exit section is the same level as the >entry section? This is of course critical. > 2. If the magnets in the "black box" are in a configuration such that >the magnetic circuit can be closed to minimize effects outside the "black >box" volume that might be useful to consider. > 3. What happens if you add a release ramp (properly set up as in #1) on >the left of the exit ramp and did the experiment WITH THE BLACK BOX REVERSED, >from left to right? If you do this and get the same results as from right to >left (without touching anything else) but turning the "black box" around, >then things are much more interesting. If, in addition, you measure the >fields at the entry point and end of exit ramp and they are on the same order >(in any direction) as the earth's magnetic field, then it does become >difficult to understand why it is not OU. > There are undoubtedly other useful approaches to understanding this OU >device better but these come to mind. > > Ken Keasy@aol.com >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:55:42 +0200 >From: Bushi@multinet.net.il (Lev Robert) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Free Energy receiver >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi All >Why should you work so hard in order to obtain free energy when there are >devices like the Radiant Energy. I read about it some time ago in the Tesla >page. There is a patent on this too from 1901 "Utilization of Radiant >Energy. Since the group is now fairly mature in coil design and since this >kind of energy generation has no moving parts perhaps the has arived to give >it a try. >Robert >BUSHILEV >Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:06:07 PST >From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: coler document >Message-ID: <19970221.140924.9558.0.tv@juno.com> > >The Hans Coler document was never written in German it was a British >intelligence report, part of Project Paper Clip. Some of the document >that it quotes however were originally in German and were translated by >British Intellignence. You could inquire with the British Government >archives whatever it is called. > >Tim > >On Sat, 3 May 1997 11:36:05 -0700 "WESLY" writes: >>TO ALL: Can anyone tell me where I can get the original HANS COLER >>DOCUMENT >>in GERMAN? >>THANKS WES >> >> >Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:07:15 +0200 >From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) >To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Cc: newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: This is what we are building ! >Message-Id: <199705032207.AAA03491@mail.bbtt.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi to all, > >cause I am pretty busy with other things I did not have much time >to post recently on the free-energy lists. > >But I wanted to keep you all updated, what we are currently building: > >It is a flux switch unit. Today we ordered the plastic revolver >chamber to hold the iron core material. Have a look at this picture. > >It was drawn by Dieter Bauer and he is the one, who pushes it foward. >Here is the URL for the picture: > >http://www.overunity.de/ecklin/fig15.gif > >It should be a 3 dimensional side view... > >I hope you can imagine how it works... > >We hope, that in about 1 month we can have the first measurement results... > > >Please also check out: > >http://www.overunity.de/ecklin/ecklin3.htm > >Best regards, Stefan. > >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service >Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: >www.detours.com www.overunity.com www.berlin-city.com >www.nylon-fetish.com >email: harti@harti.com >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 16:50:26 -0700 (PDT) >From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: coler document >Message-Id: <199705032350.QAA13321@mx2.eskimo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>The Hans Coler document was never written in German it was a British >>intelligence report, part of Project Paper Clip. Some of the document >>that it quotes however were originally in German and were translated by >>British Intellignence. You could inquire with the British Government >>archives whatever it is called. > >I have a copy of the Hans Coler report from the British Imperial War >museum in London. Its on my WEB-pages found thru my signature-file below. >exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! >mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se >http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm >Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 09:48:14 >From: Geoff Egel >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Free Energy receiver >Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970504094814.2b7f9cc6@main.murray.net.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >At 09:55 PM 5/3/97 +0200, you wrote: >>Hi All >>Why should you work so hard in order to obtain free energy when there are >>devices like the Radiant Energy. I read about it some time ago in the Tesla >>page. There is a patent on this too from 1901 "Utilization of Radiant >>Energy. Since the group is now fairly mature in coil design and since this >>kind of energy generation has no moving parts perhaps the has arived to give >>it a try. >>Robert >>BUSHILEV >> >> >>Correct me if I am wrong > >But I believe Tesla never actually constructed this device but only >imagined it. >Note that this is not problem most of his inventions he conceived this way >and then had them constructed by his engineers and he claimed they always >worked. > >Geoff Egel >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel >Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 10:02:03 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device >Message-ID: <336BD903.1294@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Keasy@aol.com wrote: >> >> To all, >> This is in response to Greg's posting of his set up and testing with his >> linear unit. >> Several questions/comments/suggestions: >> 1. How is it determined that the exit section is the same level as the >> entry section? This is of course critical. > >By sighting along the "U" channels. Its not really critical. > >> 2. If the magnets in the "black box" are in a configuration such that >> the magnetic circuit can be closed to minimize effects outside the "black >> box" volume that might be useful to consider. > >Very difficult. > >> 3. What happens if you add a release ramp (properly set up as in #1) on >> the left of the exit ramp and did the experiment WITH THE BLACK BOX REVERSED, >> from left to right? If you do this and get the same results as from right to >> left (without touching anything else) but turning the "black box" around, >> then things are much more interesting. > >Hadn't thought of that. I have however taken it appart and put it >together many times in many different ways. Still works. > >> If, in addition, you measure the >> fields at the entry point and end of exit ramp and they are on the same order >> (in any direction) as the earth's magnetic field, then it does become >> difficult to understand why it is not OU. > >There are no real entry and exit points. > >> There are undoubtedly other useful approaches to understanding this OU >> device better but these come to mind. >> >> Ken Keasy@aol.com > >Hi Ken, > >Thanks for the input. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:18:10 -0400 >From: "O'Connor" >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: LIGHTNING >Message-ID: <336BE3CD.1503@bciu.k12.pa.us> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >I'm just wondering if anyone else out there is wondering why lightning >is not being harnessed for power usage. > >I am positively sure that we have enough technology to capture/harness >the energy...but we aren't using it in our homes ect yet... > >-Shannon > >======================== >= "Eschew Obfuscation" = >======================== > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 19:18:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA27849 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:18:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 19:18:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sat May 3 19:18:33 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA27819 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA06153 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:17:28 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 3 May 1997 19:16:45 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Simple OU Device effects Sent: Fri, May 2, 1997 6:53 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 7:16 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 19:18:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA11375 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:18:16 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 19:18:16 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sat May 3 19:18:14 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA11345 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:18:10 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA06154 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:17:28 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 3 May 1997 19:16:46 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! Sent: Fri, May 2, 1997 7:07 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 7:16 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 19:22:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA11093; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:16:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 19:16:33 -0700 From: jgassaway@webzone.net Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970504021737.006aaf44@webzone.net> X-Sender: jgassaway@webzone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:17:37 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #158 Resent-Message-ID: <"x23GN3.0.Fj2.06_Qp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2941 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lots of white light hits the sun and passes thru the atmosphere. The deeper it gets the more the blue light spreads away. By the time it hits the ground, the white light turns yellow. I think everybody should drive BMWs, and Jeeps. I like 'em, don't you? Make sure your trash can lids are on tight! Nighty-night, and have a pleasant tommarrow!!!At 06:53 PM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >freenrg-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 158 > >Today's Topics: > Positive Nrg >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:17:54 -0400 >From: "O'Connor" >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Positive Nrg >Message-ID: <336BE3BD.20ED@bciu.k12.pa.us> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Does anyone have any opinions on telekenisis? Any unique ways of looking >at it, or any possible ways of showing that it is a reality? > >Personally, I believe in it 100%, but I don't have much logical proof >behind it. I believe that every object contains a certain amount of >positive nrg, and that nothing unreal exists...but I need some other >observations and ideas. Please share whatever is on your mind. > >-Shannon > >"Eschew Obfuscation" > From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 19:40:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA14673 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:40:47 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 19:40:47 -0700 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Sat May 3 19:40:44 1997 Received: from relay3.UU.NET (relay3.UU.NET [192.48.96.8]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA14589 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:40:44 -0700 Received: from localhost by relay3.UU.NET with internal (peer crosschecked as: localhost) id QQcoac15165; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:41:01 -0400 (EDT) From: MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.uu.net (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="QQcoac15165.862713661/relay3.UU.NET" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to JULIANB@BGEARN.BITNET bounced 4 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 4 X-Diagnostic: Removed: JULIANB@BGEARN.BITNET 32734 X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --QQcoac15165.862713661/relay3.UU.NET The original message was received at Sat, 3 May 1997 22:40:55 -0400 (EDT) from mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to cornellc.cit.cornell.edu.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 Host 'BGEARN.BITNET' Unknown 550 ... User unknown --QQcoac15165.862713661/relay3.UU.NET Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; relay3.UU.NET Received-From-MTA: dns; mx1.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:40:55 -0400 (EDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; JULIANB@BGEARN.BITNET Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: dns; cornellc.cit.cornell.edu Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 Host 'BGEARN.BITNET' Unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:41:01 -0400 (EDT) --QQcoac15165.862713661/relay3.UU.NET Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Return-Path: Received: from mx1.eskimo.com by relay3.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) id QQcoac15150; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:40:55 -0400 (EDT) From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA12256; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:22:17 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 19:22:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199705040222.TAA12256@mx1.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #159 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/159 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --QQcoac15165.862713661/relay3.UU.NET-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 19:53:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA15920 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:53:04 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 19:53:04 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sat May 3 19:53:03 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA15887 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:53:00 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA06244 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:52:28 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 3 May 1997 19:51:29 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. 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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 20:02:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA16625 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 20:02:10 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 20:02:10 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sat May 3 20:02:07 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA16539 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 20:02:06 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA06255 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 20:01:33 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 3 May 1997 20:00:55 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. 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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 21:38:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA25949 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 21:38:44 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 21:38:44 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sat May 3 21:38:40 1997 Received: from arl-img-8.compuserve.com (arl-img-8.compuserve.com [149.174.217.138]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA25726 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 21:38:40 -0700 Received: by arl-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA09661; Sun, 4 May 1997 00:38:09 -0400 Old-Date: 03 May 97 19:01:25 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970503230124_515664.456256_JHL60-61@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 22 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Free Energy receiver Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Contents: 1 Internet Message Header 2 ================================= Begin Part 1 ================================= Topic: Internet Message Header Format: ASCII Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA26232; Sat, 3 May 1997 20:19:46 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA17009; Sat, 3 May 1997 17:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970504094814.2b7f9cc6@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 09:48:14 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Free Energy receiver In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8k9px.0.g94.kNzQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2936 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ========================== End Part 1 / Begin Part 2 =========================== Format: ASCII At 09:55 PM 5/3/97 +0200, you wrote: >Hi All >Why should you work so hard in order to obtain free energy when there are >devices like the Radiant Energy. I read about it some time ago in the Tesla >page. There is a patent on this too from 1901 "Utilization of Radiant >Energy. Since the group is now fairly mature in coil design and since this >kind of energy generation has no moving parts perhaps the has arived to give >it a try. >Robert >BUSHILEV > > >Correct me if I am wrong But I believe Tesla never actually constructed this device but only imagined it. Note that this is not problem most of his inventions he conceived this way and then had them constructed by his engineers and he claimed they always worked. Geoff Egel http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel ================================== End Part 2 ================================== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 21:40:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA13311 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 21:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 21:40:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sat May 3 21:40:01 1997 Received: from arl-img-8.compuserve.com (arl-img-8.compuserve.com [149.174.217.138]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA13087 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 21:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA09729; Sun, 4 May 1997 00:38:57 -0400 Old-Date: 03 May 97 19:13:27 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970503231326_515664.456256_JHM62-46@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 22 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? 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Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #157 Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Contents: 1 Internet Message Header 2 ================================= Begin Part 1 ================================= Topic: Internet Message Header Format: ASCII Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id VAA27270; Sat, 3 May 1997 21:48:05 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA24370; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 18:44:37 -0700 (PDT) From: jgassaway@webzone.net Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970504014501.0069cbdc@webzone.net> X-Sender: jgassaway@webzone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 20:45:01 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #157 Resent-Message-ID: <"JpBKu3.0.iy5.3e-Qp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2940 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ========================== End Part 1 / Begin Part 2 =========================== Format: ASCII get me off the list1At 06:28 PM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >freenrg-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 157 > >Today's Topics: > Simple OU Device > Simple Ou Device > Re: Simple OU Device effects > Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! > Re: Looking for meter > Re: permanent? magnets > Re: Simple OU Device effects > The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated > Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? > Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? > Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? > Re: Simple OU Device effects > Re: Simple OU Device effects > Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info > Re: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info > Re: Simple OU Device effects > Re: Simple OU Device effects > Strange pattern on a glass-window > Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! > coler document > Simple OU Device > Free Energy receiver > Re: coler document > This is what we are building ! > Re: coler document > Re: Free Energy receiver > Re: Simple OU Device > LIGHTNING >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 10:24:05 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, > freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Simple OU Device >Message-ID: <336A8CAD.2EC@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >HI All, > >Thanks for all the feedback. I vaule it all. > >Here is my test setup and the results I get with my linear unit. > > >Test Setup: >=========== > >The test setup is composed of 4 sections, all joined end to end and made >as level as possible. The release is on the right side and the exit is >on the left. The sections are composed of 12mm alum "U" channel upon >which a 12mm steel boll rolls from right to left. > > ......Exit......Black Box.......Entry.......Release > >1) Release section: > This is a 100mm section of alum 12mm alum "U" channel attached to the >entry track. The release section is bent up at approx 5 deg. A small >notch has been filed up the ramp as a index to assist the ball being >released every time at the same position. The notch position was >determined with the "Black Box" section removed and varying the release >point to get the ball to just roll to the end of the 1mtr entry track >without dropping over the end. This I assumed gave me as close as zero >ball energy at the entry point of the "Black Box" as possible. > >2) Entry section: > This is a 1mtr long section of 12mm alum "U" channel as level as I can >make it. > >3) Black Box Section: > This unit contains magnets and more of the 12mm alum "U" channel. The >entry and exit track are at the same level. The ball is pulled up the >ramp by a graduated B field. > >4) Exit section: > This is a 1mtr long sectin of 12mm alum "U" channel as level as I can >make it. > >All sections are level and at the same height. > > >Test Results: >============= > >The steel ball is placed on the "calibrated" release notch and released. > >It roll down the release ramp and onto the entry track. > >As it rolls along the entry track, the ball starts to slow. > >Then it gets to with-in 75-100mm from the end of the entry track or from >the start of the "Black Box" section. the ball starts rolling at a >constant speed and slightly accelerates as it crosses over into the >"Black Box" section. > >It leaves the "Black Box" section showing some slight drag back with-in >the first 25-50mm and then happily rolls off the end of the 1 mtr exit >track. > > >Further Testing: >================ > >I have constructed a working three ramp unit to investigate the change >in "Black Box" input alterations due to the influence of the exit >field. The testing here was to investigate the problems in attempting >to close the loop. I could not get two units oriented at right angles >to work due to the complexs interactions of the exit and entry fields. >My idea here was to use 4 units set a right angles to each other to form >a square and thus close the loop. The three unit linear model does >work. > > >Conclusions on the Linear Unit: >=============================== > >A real energy gain is shown as well as the ability to move a mass. The >energy gain seems to be around 20-30%. Closing the loop with such a >model seems difficult as the frictional losses in returning the ball to >the enrty point would be large. > > >Rotary Unit: >============ > >My current work is centered on a rotary unit, quite different to the >above. > > >Long Term Intentions: >===================== > >I do not intend to manuf a thing. A license to use the technology will >be available to any one who wishes to use it at a VERY LOW COST. My >current thinking is around $100 upfront and $1 / 1kw generation capacity >per unit on a decreasing sliding scale. I believe if the technology is >available cheaply enough, its simpler and less costly in the long run to >license it than steal it. > >As to getting rich, if my shareholders do, so will I. > > >References: >=========== > >US Patent 4,215,330 issued 29 July, 1980. Check it out. > > >Test Group: >=========== > >This patent was posted to the 9 members of my test group. While is is >not my device, is is close and an understanding of the patent would be >of benefit. To my knowledge, 4 members have constructed actual units. >I included in the group several critics to help keep us all honest. > >, >, >, *Constructed* >, *Constructed* >, *Constructed* >, *Constructed* >, *Working on a unit* >, >, >, *Constructed* > > >The group was formed to reduce list traffic and help to keep discussions >in control. If you wish to jon the group and be involved in actual >construction and discussions please let me know. > >I should point out that the guys at Earth Tech are willing to test a >"closed loop unit" unit at no charge. I have accepted. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > 61 18 833 461 Mobile >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 11:11:17 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, > freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Simple Ou Device >Message-ID: <336A97BD.11AE@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Hi All, > >Here is the link to the Patent 4,215,330 : > >Right click on each image/page to save it to disk and then use any gif >viewer to view or print it. > >This is not my device, but is close enough for you to build if you want >to have a go and experiment. It does work. > >http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4215330 > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > 61 18 833 461 Mobile >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 18:52:47 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502185246.00a5e1b4@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Yes, I agree magnets do work (just like springs)... I don't think anybody >with a little logic could disagree with this. > > >The work done by the magnet is simply the amount of force exercised by the >magnet over the distance which this force acts on something. > >If [W] denotes work, [F] force, [m] mass, [a] acceleration, [v] velocity, >[d] distance traveled > >...according to the basic formula [W=fd] meaning that if a magnets attract >ANY mass with a force of 1 Newton over the distance of 1 meter than the >work done by/against the magnet will equal to 1 Joule. > >NOTE: that it doesn't matter if the attracted mass is 1 gram or 1 ton, the >amount of work the magnet does to attract it for over 1 meter is 1 Joule, >IN BOTH CASES ! > >You can express the work [W] done by the magnet in variety of other ways, >for example [W=mad] meaning a certain mass [m] accelerating at a certain >rate [a] for a certain distance [d] denotes certain work done by the magnet > >... or [W=0.5mv^2] meaning that a magnet attracting certain mass [m] will >accelerate it to a certain velocity [v] and the expression [0.5mv^2] will >represent the amount of work [W] the magnet has done. > > >The issue whether any work has to be done AGAINST the magnet before any >work is done BY the magnet, is a completely different issue and very >dependent on how large the "box" is. > > > > >At 10:21 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>This started out as a preliminary stab at the effects of using Greg's >>magnetic ramp as an energy source. But it ends up skirting the issue, and >>becomes sort of a way of conventionally explaining what's going on, in real >>shallow terms :-). >> >>First, magnets have been doing work ever since we started using them. When >>you put a magnet up on the refrigerator, it does work as it pulls your hand >>with it toward the metal. You do an equivalent amount of work when you >>un-stick it later, but the magnet still did work. The magnet's work was >>balanced by your work. >> >>Gravity also does work, no? When you climb up a flight of stairs, you do >>lots of work to counter gravity. If you fall back down, gravity has done >>work. The system is balanced (even if you are not). >> >>In a permanent-magnet motor, the magnets are doing work. It is balanced by >>the work of the electromagnets, using electricity as their energy source. >> >>Permanent magnets are in wide use, and they are doing work. It's just that >>their work is usually balanced by energies that we provide. >> >>Greg's ramp is using one form of energy (gravitational) that we usually >>have to balance with our own energy, to offset another form of energy >>(magnetic) that we also usually have to balance with our own efforts. No >>big deal, right? >> >>Does anyone ever wonder whether we're depleting the Earth's gravitational >>energy when we fall down? >> >>In the same way, we've never stopped to wonder what the *efffects* of using >>magnets may be. Greg's asking a good question that maybe should be answered >>for our current, "conventional" widespread use of magnets. >> >> >>Dan >> >> >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:05:39 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502190537.00a5e1b4@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >...and the sum of earth's angular momentum + the heat radiated into space >after we slowed down the earth a little with our infernal device, should be >equal to the earth's angular momentum before we starting to perform our >evil deed. > >...I don't understand why any one of you would like to limit the >conservation of energy "generalization" ONLY to the mechanical angular >momentum. Electrical energy or EM radiation like heat are as "good" forms >of energy as mechanical momentum. > >If these energies could, they would sue you for unfair discrimination >(anthropomorphically speaking...) > >P.S. > >I remember reading somewhere that the earth's rotation rate is altered by >man-made water reservoirs. (ballerina effect) > >At 10:36 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>Larry Wharton wrote: >>> No such invention can possibly work because of conservation of angular >>> momentum. If the Earth's rotation slows down then the angular momentum >>> would decrease and that is not allowed. Only if angular momentum is >>> exchanged with some third body orbiting the Earth, like the Moon, such that >>> the total is constant could this idea work. Through the years there have >>> been many schemes like this proposed and they all don't involve the Moon >>> and they all don't work. >> >>The moon has nothing to do with this particular invention. >>I will dig out some info about this device and post a >>description. >> >>For sure, angular momentum must be conserved in a closed system. >>But the earth-moon is not a closed system. In fact, given >>an ample amount of time, the only truly closed system is >>the entire universe -- maybe not even that. >> >>In this particular invention, angular momentum is transferred >>from the body of the earth, to an electro-magnetic field and/or >>mechanical device which can do useful work on or near the earth's >>surface, and then to waste heat at the surface and in the >>atmosphere, and eventually radiated into space. >> >>Regards, >>Robert Stirniman >> >> >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:49:11 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Looking for meter >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502194910.00a69d00@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Tucker Surplus gas some 6 digit desktop DMM with 10uA DC range. I gave >seen other equipment in other catalogs but don't want to go and search >through stack of ne right now. If you are still unsuccessful in finding >what you need, I'll browse. Let me know > >At 12:43 PM 5/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >>I am trying to locate a reasonably priced meter to measure very low >>currents (in nA) and voltages (uV). The best I've located so far is The >>TENMA AC Millivolt Meter ($175 from MCM Electronics, cat #72-450). It has >>the disadvantage of being AC voltage only and analog, but goes down to a >>0-300 uV range, and has amplified output for an oscilloscope. >> >>Regards, >> >>Horace Heffner >> >> >> >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:53:41 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: permanent? magnets >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502195339.00a6bdfc@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Yes, a permanent magnet not subjected to H fields above the B/H curve >demagnetization knee, or curie temperature or critical G shock, will last >forever. > > >At 05:53 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >>I don't have any references, but I know the standard theory is, and my >>experience has been, so long as you do not introduce reverse fields large >>enough to actually start to demagnetize a magnet, a "good" magnet is not in >>any measurable way effected by use. ie you can use it in reversible field >>configurations indefinitely without in any way "consuming" its energy. Does >>anyone else have any other opinions? >> >> >> >> Keasy >> >> >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 21:54:16 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502215412.00a68180@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I disagree. If you look at Greg's description below, the inclined release >track is there ONLY to overcome the frictional losses of the entry track. >Greg clearly states "zero ball energy at the entry point...", also the >statement "... with the Black Box section removed..." is significant. > >In Greg's device the ball does NOT suffer repulsion as it enters the >BlackBox, on the contrary, the ball is always attracted to the entry point. > >The reason for the calibrated release track is simple. If the release >track was not used and the ball was far away from the Black Box on the >level entry track only, the magnetic attraction would not be strong enough >to get the ball moving from such a distance. Please remember that static >friction is greater than dynamic (moving) friction. By using the inclined >release track Greg overcomes the starting friction and is able to measure >the work [W=Fd] over a large distance even if the distance [d] is is large >and [F] to small to get the ball rolling. > >Please remember that if the Black Box was absent, the system of the release >and exit track would impart exactly ZERO kinetic energy to the ball at the >entry point (end of the entry track) > >The dilution of the back attraction force over a large distance is what >worries me, and I dare to state that this is the only possible flaw in >Greg's analysis. (back-attraction force integrated over exit distance). > >All of the other objections that people have been voicing (ie. >demagnetization of the magnets, input energy, eddy currents, etc..) are >silly, insignificant and could be all avoided if they took the time to >understand what Greg is writing. > >Permanent magnets do not get demagnetized by performing work in the form of >ferrite attraction. Demagnetization and magnet breakdown only happens if >you push them to hard (ie. excessive H field from a coil or another >stronger magnet, mechanical shock over critical G and thermal curie point). >Almost everything can be destroyed if you push it to hard, it doesn't mean >that it gets used up otherwise... > > > > > >At 11:34 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >>One thing that bothers me is that Greg says the release track is ramped >>at about 5 deg - so this rig DOES have an input energy > >At 10:24 AM 5/3/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >>>...with the "Black Box" section removed and varying the release >>>point to get the ball to just roll to the end of the 1mtr entry track >>>without dropping over the end. This I assumed gave me as close as zero >>>ball energy at the entry point of the "Black Box" as possible. >Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:11:40 -0800 >From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated >Message-Id: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: > >http://www.padrak.com/ine/ > >Most New Data Files are at: > >http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT > >------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ >Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions >------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ > >May 3, 1997 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 4, No. 12, April 1997 > So You Want To Be Involved In New Energy? > Calibration For Cold Fusion > Cold Fusion Bibliography Updated! > NASA Preparing For The Future > Gravitation Shielding Possible > The Nature Of The Aether > World Energy Report > Letter From Hal Puthoff (On SHARP Drive) > Added: Proceedings of The 1996 International Conference On > New Ideas In Natural Sciences (Forward, > Conclusions, and Videotapes Available) > Updated: Fabulous Facts File, > Websites, People, Organizations, etc. > Site Counter = 98,515 > >Dr. Patrick G. Bailey >President, Institute for New Energy >http://www.padrak.com/ine/ >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:24:30 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell >Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502222428.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I agree to the paragraph below. > >Does Greg disagree ? > >At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>But in the case of an RLC in series >>with a constant current power supply the supply voltage will have to >>increase in order for the current to remain constant as the voltage >>across the inductor increases trying to reduce the current such that the >>energy remains the same in the inductor, thus energy in the inductor >>will increase as L increases because the current has NOT changed >>(assuming the P/S has done its job) - and this extra energy has come >>from the power supply. >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:31:45 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell >Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223143.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I agree. The voltage across the coil must increase and be positive to keep >the coil current constant. That is what constant-current P/S does. If >this P/S wasn't doing its job than the I would decrease as the L increased. > >The more interesting question is whether the work [W=Fd] done by the >inductor when attracting the ferrite is done at the expense of stored >electrical energy [0.5LI^2] ????????????? > >No conservation of energy arguments allowed here ! :-) > >At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>The point of contention has to do with the SIGN of the voltage across >>the coil. The maths say it is positive. Greg Watson says it is negative >>- but he has not responded to that point. >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:34:22 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell >Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223421.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Err.. I have a problem with: "...due to a positive voltage induced across >the L..." > >Please rephrase and elaborate. >... > >At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>In the case of a constant-voltage P/S in series with the RLC there would >>be no voltage change across the P/S but the current in R would drop due >>to a positive voltage induced across the L. >> >> >>L R >>////--0------<><><><>----------0 `````````` >>//// ^ | | >>//// | dL/dt V | P/S | >>////--0------------------------0 |......... >> >>--- >>Maxwell >> >> >> >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:37:50 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "Francis J. Stenger" >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223748.00a7d2e4@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. > >At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >>OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >>doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >>friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >>reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >>approach. >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 15:29:31 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-ID: <336AD443.2938@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Epitaxy wrote: >> >> Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >> centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >> pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. > >I agree, even though I haven't seen the referenced post. > >> At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >> > >> >OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >> >doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >> >friction to a mimimum > >Wouldn't work. > >>> - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >> >reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >> >approach. > >Hi Guys, > >Seems I haven't received the post you refer to, anyhow the reason I use >a alum "U" channel for the ball to roll on is the requirement for the >ball to be in a balanced magnetic state if reference to the side to side >magnetic attraction forces exerted by the two side magnet assy. The >alum channel allows for some unbalanced sideways magnetic forces to >exist. To be pulled side ways off the track requires the ball to be >pulled up and over the side of the alum track. > >I tried tubing but found this allows side ways slop and greatly reduces >the graduated mag ramp forces. For max pull into the graduated field, >side to side magnetic influences must be reduced to less than 5%. > >The alum channel didn't just happen. it was the best of several methods, >considering the job it has to do. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:31:33 PST >From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) >To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com >Cc: vortext-L@eskimo.com >Subject: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info >Message-ID: <19970220.233139.11894.0.tv@juno.com> > >I posted a Web page about the invention of Wesley Gary and his magnet >motor >including the missing diagrams that several of you wanted but I could not >attach >to email for some reason involving my mail server. > >The URL of the "Gary Effect" page is: > >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810 > >Tim >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 01:37:30 -0700 >From: Jerry Decker >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info >Message-ID: <336AF94A.7157@keelynet.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Hi Tim! > >Excellent! Thanks, will add the URL.... >-- > Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 00:10:49 -0800 >From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-Id: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >At 10:37 PM 5/2/97, Epitaxy wrote: >>Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >>centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >>pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. > >A pendulum like so is useful (B are bearings, rest is rigid): > > ------B------------B----- > \ / > \ / > \ / > \ / > \ / > \/ > xx > >> >>At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >>> >>>OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >>>doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >>>friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >>>reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >>>approach. > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 17:49:31 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-ID: <336AF513.24C9@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Horace Heffner wrote: >> >> At 10:37 PM 5/2/97, Epitaxy wrote: >> >Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >> >centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >> >pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. >> >> A pendulum like so is useful (B are bearings, rest is rigid): >> >> ------B------------B----- >> \ / >> \ / >> \ / >> \ / >> \ / >> \/ >> xx >> >> > >> >At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >> >>OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >> >>doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >> >>friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >> >>reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >> >>approach. >> >> Regards, >> >> Horace Heffner > >Hi Guys, > >Nice pendulum idea Horace. Sorry, but I can't use it. Will file it for >future reference. > >Check out the patent below to get a idea of what is happening in the >"Black Box" : > >http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4215330 > >Just click on the link, it will load the first page of the patent. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 06:40:37 -0700 >From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Strange pattern on a glass-window >Message-Id: <199705031340.GAA15335@mx1.eskimo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I have updated my WEB-pages with some pictures showing strange >pattern on a glass-window that appears when they are misty... >Kind of reminds me about the David Hammel story. >exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! >mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se >http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:30:43 -0400 (EDT) >From: Keasy@aol.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! >Message-ID: <970503113042_-1031323492@emout07.mail.aol.com> > >Regarding this "don't slow down the earth!" issue everyone knows the rotation >rate of the earth (earth-moon system, actually) is constantly slowing down >because of tidal effects --- a very small change, however. An interesting >calculation shows what will eventually happen. Results are posted at >http://members.aol.com/Keasy and follow the earth/moon link. >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:36:05 -0700 >From: "WESLY" >To: >Subject: coler document >Message-Id: <199705031807.LAA09874@claim.goldrush.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >TO ALL: Can anyone tell me where I can get the original HANS COLER DOCUMENT >in GERMAN? >THANKS WES >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 14:26:32 -0400 (EDT) >From: Keasy@aol.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Simple OU Device >Message-ID: <970503142631_-1299795460@emout07.mail.aol.com> > >To all, > This is in response to Greg's posting of his set up and testing with his >linear unit. > Several questions/comments/suggestions: > 1. How is it determined that the exit section is the same level as the >entry section? This is of course critical. > 2. If the magnets in the "black box" are in a configuration such that >the magnetic circuit can be closed to minimize effects outside the "black >box" volume that might be useful to consider. > 3. What happens if you add a release ramp (properly set up as in #1) on >the left of the exit ramp and did the experiment WITH THE BLACK BOX REVERSED, >from left to right? If you do this and get the same results as from right to >left (without touching anything else) but turning the "black box" around, >then things are much more interesting. If, in addition, you measure the >fields at the entry point and end of exit ramp and they are on the same order >(in any direction) as the earth's magnetic field, then it does become >difficult to understand why it is not OU. > There are undoubtedly other useful approaches to understanding this OU >device better but these come to mind. > > Ken Keasy@aol.com >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:55:42 +0200 >From: Bushi@multinet.net.il (Lev Robert) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Free Energy receiver >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi All >Why should you work so hard in order to obtain free energy when there are >devices like the Radiant Energy. I read about it some time ago in the Tesla >page. There is a patent on this too from 1901 "Utilization of Radiant >Energy. Since the group is now fairly mature in coil design and since this >kind of energy generation has no moving parts perhaps the has arived to give >it a try. >Robert >BUSHILEV >Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:06:07 PST >From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: coler document >Message-ID: <19970221.140924.9558.0.tv@juno.com> > >The Hans Coler document was never written in German it was a British >intelligence report, part of Project Paper Clip. Some of the document >that it quotes however were originally in German and were translated by >British Intellignence. You could inquire with the British Government >archives whatever it is called. > >Tim > >On Sat, 3 May 1997 11:36:05 -0700 "WESLY" writes: >>TO ALL: Can anyone tell me where I can get the original HANS COLER >>DOCUMENT >>in GERMAN? >>THANKS WES >> >> >Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:07:15 +0200 >From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) >To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Cc: newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: This is what we are building ! >Message-Id: <199705032207.AAA03491@mail.bbtt.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi to all, > >cause I am pretty busy with other things I did not have much time >to post recently on the free-energy lists. > >But I wanted to keep you all updated, what we are currently building: > >It is a flux switch unit. Today we ordered the plastic revolver >chamber to hold the iron core material. Have a look at this picture. > >It was drawn by Dieter Bauer and he is the one, who pushes it foward. >Here is the URL for the picture: > >http://www.overunity.de/ecklin/fig15.gif > >It should be a 3 dimensional side view... > >I hope you can imagine how it works... > >We hope, that in about 1 month we can have the first measurement results... > > >Please also check out: > >http://www.overunity.de/ecklin/ecklin3.htm > >Best regards, Stefan. > >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service >Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: >www.detours.com www.overunity.com www.berlin-city.com >www.nylon-fetish.com >email: harti@harti.com >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 16:50:26 -0700 (PDT) >From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: coler document >Message-Id: <199705032350.QAA13321@mx2.eskimo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>The Hans Coler document was never written in German it was a British >>intelligence report, part of Project Paper Clip. Some of the document >>that it quotes however were originally in German and were translated by >>British Intellignence. You could inquire with the British Government >>archives whatever it is called. > >I have a copy of the Hans Coler report from the British Imperial War >museum in London. Its on my WEB-pages found thru my signature-file below. >exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! >mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se >http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm >Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 09:48:14 >From: Geoff Egel >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Free Energy receiver >Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970504094814.2b7f9cc6@main.murray.net.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >At 09:55 PM 5/3/97 +0200, you wrote: >>Hi All >>Why should you work so hard in order to obtain free energy when there are >>devices like the Radiant Energy. I read about it some time ago in the Tesla >>page. There is a patent on this too from 1901 "Utilization of Radiant >>Energy. Since the group is now fairly mature in coil design and since this >>kind of energy generation has no moving parts perhaps the has arived to give >>it a try. >>Robert >>BUSHILEV >> >> >>Correct me if I am wrong > >But I believe Tesla never actually constructed this device but only >imagined it. >Note that this is not problem most of his inventions he conceived this way >and then had them constructed by his engineers and he claimed they always >worked. > >Geoff Egel >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel >Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 10:02:03 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device >Message-ID: <336BD903.1294@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Keasy@aol.com wrote: >> >> To all, >> This is in response to Greg's posting of his set up and testing with his >> linear unit. >> Several questions/comments/suggestions: >> 1. How is it determined that the exit section is the same level as the >> entry section? This is of course critical. > >By sighting along the "U" channels. Its not really critical. > >> 2. If the magnets in the "black box" are in a configuration such that >> the magnetic circuit can be closed to minimize effects outside the "black >> box" volume that might be useful to consider. > >Very difficult. > >> 3. What happens if you add a release ramp (properly set up as in #1) on >> the left of the exit ramp and did the experiment WITH THE BLACK BOX REVERSED, >> from left to right? If you do this and get the same results as from right to >> left (without touching anything else) but turning the "black box" around, >> then things are much more interesting. > >Hadn't thought of that. I have however taken it appart and put it >together many times in many different ways. Still works. > >> If, in addition, you measure the >> fields at the entry point and end of exit ramp and they are on the same order >> (in any direction) as the earth's magnetic field, then it does become >> difficult to understand why it is not OU. > >There are no real entry and exit points. > >> There are undoubtedly other useful approaches to understanding this OU >> device better but these come to mind. >> >> Ken Keasy@aol.com > >Hi Ken, > >Thanks for the input. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:18:10 -0400 >From: "O'Connor" >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: LIGHTNING >Message-ID: <336BE3CD.1503@bciu.k12.pa.us> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >I'm just wondering if anyone else out there is wondering why lightning >is not being harnessed for power usage. > >I am positively sure that we have enough technology to capture/harness >the energy...but we aren't using it in our homes ect yet... > >-Shannon > >======================== >= "Eschew Obfuscation" = >======================== > ================================== End Part 2 ================================== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 22:08:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA28246 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:08:13 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:08:13 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sat May 3 22:08:11 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA28217 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:08:10 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA06451 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:07:37 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 3 May 1997 22:07:20 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Simple OU Device effects Sent: Fri, May 2, 1997 9:55 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 10:07 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 22:16:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA29184 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:16:00 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:16:00 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sat May 3 22:15:58 1997 Received: from dub-img-2.compuserve.com (dub-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.206.132]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA28965 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:15:56 -0700 Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA19684; Sun, 4 May 1997 01:15:25 -0400 Old-Date: 03 May 97 19:47:07 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970503234706_515664.456256_IHB46-2@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 23 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: permanent? magnets Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by hil-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA01588; Fri, 2 May 1997 22:57:35 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA14225; Fri, 2 May 1997 19:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 19:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502195339.00a6bdfc@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:53:41 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: permanent? magnets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"a9RGF3.0.BU3.IZgQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2916 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Yes, a permanent magnet not subjected to H fields above the B/H curve demagnetization knee, or curie temperature or critical G shock, will last forever. At 05:53 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >I don't have any references, but I know the standard theory is, and my >experience has been, so long as you do not introduce reverse fields large >enough to actually start to demagnetize a magnet, a "good" magnet is not in >any measurable way effected by use. ie you can use it in reversible field >configurations indefinitely without in any way "consuming" its energy. Does >anyone else have any other opinions? > > > > Keasy > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 22:16:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA16779 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:16:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sat May 3 22:16:30 1997 Received: from dub-img-2.compuserve.com (dub-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.206.132]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA16562 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:16:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA19719; Sun, 4 May 1997 01:15:28 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 00:54:49 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504045448_515664.456256_JHR43-15@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 21 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 This is what we are building ! Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA28610; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:09:31 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA17959; Sat, 3 May 1997 15:03:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 15:03:55 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:07:15 +0200 Message-Id: <199705032207.AAA03491@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: This is what we are building ! Cc: newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Jmsz33.0.TO4.APxQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2934 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi to all, cause I am pretty busy with other things I did not have much time to post recently on the free-energy lists. But I wanted to keep you all updated, what we are currently building: It is a flux switch unit. Today we ordered the plastic revolver chamber to hold the iron core material. Have a look at this picture. It was drawn by Dieter Bauer and he is the one, who pushes it foward. Here is the URL for the picture: http://www.overunity.de/ecklin/fig15.gif It should be a 3 dimensional side view... I hope you can imagine how it works... We hope, that in about 1 month we can have the first measurement results... Please also check out: http://www.overunity.de/ecklin/ecklin3.htm Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: www.detours.com www.overunity.com www.berlin-city.com www.nylon-fetish.com email: harti@harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 22:16:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA16791 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:16:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sat May 3 22:16:41 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA16665 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA06466 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:15:37 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 3 May 1997 22:15:35 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated Sent: Fri, May 2, 1997 10:12 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 10:15 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 22:37:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA30506 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:37:16 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:37:16 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sat May 3 22:37:14 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA30468 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:37:13 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA06485 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:36:40 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 3 May 1997 22:36:12 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Sent: Fri, May 2, 1997 10:25 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 10:36 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 22:37:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA30538 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:37:18 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:37:18 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sat May 3 22:37:15 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA30469 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:37:13 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA06484 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:36:40 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 3 May 1997 22:36:12 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Sent: Fri, May 2, 1997 10:32 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 10:36 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 22:37:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA18499 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sat May 3 22:37:42 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA18449 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA06486 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:36:40 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 3 May 1997 22:36:13 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Sent: Fri, May 2, 1997 10:35 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 10:36 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 22:40:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA18197; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <336C659F.729@triode.net.au> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 03:32:00 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? References: <3.0.32.19970502223421.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PUXJZ.0.8S4.102Rp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2942 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > Err.. I have a problem with: "...due to a positive voltage induced across > the L..." > > Please rephrase and elaborate. > ... > >L R > >////--0------<><><><>----------0 `````````` > >//// ^ | | > >//// | dL/dt V | P/S | > >////--0------------------------0 |......... ok. While the current through L and the value of L is constant there will be no voltage appearing across L. if, however, the value of L changes (due to the u-no-wot going into the u-no-where) then a voltage will appear across L of I*dL/dt. I said 'induced' because we can also think of the voltage being caused by a magnet, magnetised by the flux of L, moving into the coil causing and induced voltage = dPhi/dt (where Phi is the flux in the coil). The flux in the coil changes as the rod is attracted, which will cause the induced voltage across the terminals of the coil. Inductance is derive from Flux. EMF =N*dPhi/dt = N*(dPhi/dI)*(dI/dt) = LdI/dt where L = N*dPhi/dI N is number of turns I is current Phi is flux in coil EMF is induced voltage if L itself is time variant (ie depends on time and not current, L(t)) then EMF = d(LI)/dt = LdI/dt + IdL/dt enuf. -- Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 23:06:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA00151 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 23:06:53 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 23:06:53 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sat May 3 23:06:49 1997 Received: from arl-img-2.compuserve.com (arl-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.217.132]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA32673 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 23:06:47 -0700 Received: by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id CAA04866; Sun, 4 May 1997 02:06:16 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 01:24:11 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504052410_515664.456256_IHJ44-23@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 22 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Simple OU Device effects Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id EAA13086; Sat, 3 May 1997 04:06:55 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA13257; Sat, 3 May 1997 01:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 01:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 00:10:49 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects Resent-Message-ID: <"Vu9mO2.0.zE3.l7lQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2926 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 10:37 PM 5/2/97, Epitaxy wrote: >Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. A pendulum like so is useful (B are bearings, rest is rigid): ------B------------B----- \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \/ xx > >At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >>OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >>doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >>friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >>reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >>approach. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 23:07:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA00327 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 23:07:49 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 23:07:49 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sat May 3 23:07:46 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA00295 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 23:07:45 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA06540 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 23:07:42 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 3 May 1997 23:06:51 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Simple OU Device effects Sent: Fri, May 2, 1997 10:38 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 11:06 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 23:21:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA22286; Sat, 3 May 1997 23:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 23:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:20:01 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: "O'Connor" Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Positive Nrg In-Reply-To: <336BE3BD.20ED@bciu.k12.pa.us> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fOJRt.0.7S5.Kh2Rp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2943 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 3 May 1997, O'Connor wrote: > > Does anyone have any opinions on telekenisis? Any unique ways of looking > at it, or any possible ways of showing that it is a reality? > > Personally, I believe in it 100%, but I don't have much logical proof > behind it. I believe that every object contains a certain amount of > positive nrg, and that nothing unreal exists...but I need some other > observations and ideas. Please share whatever is on your mind. Hi! Actually, my theory is that telekinesis, as well as many, if not all psionic or psychic powers *may* be possible through our minds creating or manipulating virtual particles. Virtual particles facilitate the exchange of energy. We all can do this to some degree, but those with the correct neural nets can do it efficiently enough to produce semi regular results. Just a theory, but..... John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 3 23:55:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA03551 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 23:55:18 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 23:55:18 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sat May 3 23:55:17 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA03521 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 23:55:16 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA06582 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 23:54:43 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 3 May 1997 23:53:10 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info Sent: Fri, May 2, 1997 11:38 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 11:53 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 00:00:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA04142 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 00:00:46 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:00:46 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 00:00:44 1997 Received: from dub-img-1.compuserve.com (dub-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.206.131]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA03976 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 00:00:43 -0700 Received: by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id DAA02222; Sun, 4 May 1997 03:00:13 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 02:55:12 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504065511_515664.456256_IHL66-38@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to hil-img-10.compuserve.com bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Simple OU Device effects Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by hil-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA16510; Sat, 3 May 1997 01:39:40 -0400 Received: from mx2.eskimo.com by relay2.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) id QQcnww02577; Sat, 3 May 1997 01:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA02319; Fri, 2 May 1997 22:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223748.00a7d2e4@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:37:50 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "Francis J. Stenger" From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qySOh2.0.0a.CziQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2922 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: > >OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >approach. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 00:02:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA04533 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 00:02:39 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:02:39 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 00:02:25 1997 Received: from dub-img-2.compuserve.com (dub-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.206.132]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA04262 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 00:02:25 -0700 Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id DAA26727; Sun, 4 May 1997 03:01:54 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 02:55:55 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504065554_515664.456256_FHA37-48@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 23 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: TV program in France Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA14964; Fri, 2 May 1997 20:04:58 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA19434; Fri, 2 May 1997 17:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 17:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970503093150.2b673c64@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 09:31:50 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: TV program in France In-Reply-To: <199705021101.NAA07552@imaginet.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"Q1Id-1.0.al4.w2eQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2910 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 01:01 PM 5/2/97 +0200, you wrote: >Freenrgians > >This is to announce, specially formember of this list in France and= Belgium, >the airing of our documentary about new energy and alternative science, >saturday may 10th, 13 h 30, on the TV channel Canal Plus (in a weekly= series >called L=92=9Cil du cyclone / Eye of the cyclone). > >The film is called =AB Ils vont sauver la planete ! =BB (They=92re going to= save >the planet ! ). It features Martin Fleischmann, Jim Griggs, Frank Stenger & >Frank Znidarsic, Hal Fox, Teruo Kawai, Reidar Finsrud, Stanley Meyer, James >E. Bare, Gaston Naessens, Arthur C. Clarke and French researchers Jacques >Benveniste, Joel Sternheimer, Guy Arnaud and Gilles Thuny. > >Thanks to every one who helped ! > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Jean-Pierre Lentin >lentin@imaginet.fr > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Pity there's not an English version and some commercial or the ABC could air it in Australia Geoff http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 01:00:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA07874 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 01:00:58 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 01:00:58 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 01:00:54 1997 Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com (arl-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.217.135]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA07648 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 01:00:53 -0700 Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id EAA29741; Sun, 4 May 1997 04:00:22 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 03:38:04 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504073803_515664.456256_IHB15-18@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 24 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA06990; Sat, 3 May 1997 01:27:15 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA00993; Fri, 2 May 1997 22:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502222428.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:24:30 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"vFECI3.0.RF.imiQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2919 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I agree to the paragraph below. Does Greg disagree ? At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >But in the case of an RLC in series >with a constant current power supply the supply voltage will have to >increase in order for the current to remain constant as the voltage >across the inductor increases trying to reduce the current such that the >energy remains the same in the inductor, thus energy in the inductor >will increase as L increases because the current has NOT changed >(assuming the P/S has done its job) - and this extra energy has come >from the power supply. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 01:07:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA28042 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 01:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 01:07:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sun May 4 01:07:55 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA28011 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 01:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA06640 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 01:06:52 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 4 May 1997 01:05:50 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info Sent: Sat, May 3, 1997 12:40 AM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 1:05 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 01:28:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA09944 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 01:28:47 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 01:28:47 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 01:28:45 1997 Received: from dub-img-2.compuserve.com (dub-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.206.132]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA09777 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 01:28:44 -0700 Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id EAA04496; Sun, 4 May 1997 04:28:14 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 04:15:06 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504081505_515664.456256_JHL52-51@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to arl-img-4.compuserve.com bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Simple OU Device effects Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA08713; Sat, 3 May 1997 00:57:54 -0400 Received: from mx2.eskimo.com by relay2.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) id QQcnwt28681; Sat, 3 May 1997 00:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA27843; Fri, 2 May 1997 21:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 21:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502215412.00a68180@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 21:54:16 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-saOc2.0.wo6.PKiQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2917 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I disagree. If you look at Greg's description below, the inclined release track is there ONLY to overcome the frictional losses of the entry track. Greg clearly states "zero ball energy at the entry point...", also the statement "... with the Black Box section removed..." is significant. In Greg's device the ball does NOT suffer repulsion as it enters the BlackBox, on the contrary, the ball is always attracted to the entry point. The reason for the calibrated release track is simple. If the release track was not used and the ball was far away from the Black Box on the level entry track only, the magnetic attraction would not be strong enough to get the ball moving from such a distance. Please remember that static friction is greater than dynamic (moving) friction. By using the inclined release track Greg overcomes the starting friction and is able to measure the work [W=Fd] over a large distance even if the distance [d] is is large and [F] to small to get the ball rolling. Please remember that if the Black Box was absent, the system of the release and exit track would impart exactly ZERO kinetic energy to the ball at the entry point (end of the entry track) The dilution of the back attraction force over a large distance is what worries me, and I dare to state that this is the only possible flaw in Greg's analysis. (back-attraction force integrated over exit distance). All of the other objections that people have been voicing (ie. demagnetization of the magnets, input energy, eddy currents, etc..) are silly, insignificant and could be all avoided if they took the time to understand what Greg is writing. Permanent magnets do not get demagnetized by performing work in the form of ferrite attraction. Demagnetization and magnet breakdown only happens if you push them to hard (ie. excessive H field from a coil or another stronger magnet, mechanical shock over critical G and thermal curie point). Almost everything can be destroyed if you push it to hard, it doesn't mean that it gets used up otherwise... At 11:34 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >One thing that bothers me is that Greg says the release track is ramped >at about 5 deg - so this rig DOES have an input energy At 10:24 AM 5/3/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >>...with the "Black Box" section removed and varying the release >>point to get the ball to just roll to the end of the 1mtr entry track >>without dropping over the end. This I assumed gave me as close as zero >>ball energy at the entry point of the "Black Box" as possible. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 01:37:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA10296 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 01:37:27 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 01:37:27 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sun May 4 01:37:25 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA10262 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 01:37:25 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA06683 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 01:36:52 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 4 May 1997 01:36:26 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Simple OU Device effects Sent: Sat, May 3, 1997 1:06 AM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 1:36 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 02:46:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA02019; Sun, 4 May 1997 02:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 02:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336C2568.3F2A@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 22:58:00 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Creepy attack on the Hall effect Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pGZFQ2.0.NV.zh5Rp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2944 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Horace and all others interested in the "creepy attack", I'll be the first to admit that I have not been reading the "creepy" posts with any regularity so I am truly jumping in where angels fear to tread, but I will speak my piece anyway. I agree with you that there is a magnetostatic gradient effect (or effects). It's also possible that there are magnetic monopoles as Ehrenfest reported in his experiments with making Hydrogen with a magnet. I think these effects are well worth investigating for their basic science value. The gradient is used as a power source in the Spence patent and I would recommend looking this up. Apparently this device worked but self-destructed after several hours because of electron damage to the magnets or something. I'm not going to dwell on theses types of effects here but on the Hall effect and the basic nature of the physical processes we are discussing. The Hall effect, the Corbino effect, and certain microwave effects are nonreciprocal processes. What this means is that the energy conversion process is one-way. If you take a circuit containing one of these devices and apply an output to the input and an input to the output the effects are not the same. Often there is no energy coming out the input even if energy is applied at the output. It was proven in the 40's and 50's that these systems could exist, based on the work of Tellegen on gyrators. Nonreciprocal microwave devices based on the gyromagnetic properties of ferrites were quickly developed, and are used extensively in this region with high efficiency. It is more difficult to efficiently implement true nonreciprocal systems at lower frequencies, with one exception, the mechanical gyroscopic system, which I'll talk about in another post. It is possible to create a number of overunity generators from the Hall and Corbino efects, but they must be built with the proper materials to reach high efficiencies. I've suggested using Bismuth, the original Hall effect material, in a certain way. Herbert, the difficulty with your approach as I see it (and admittedly I see it very vaguely if at all) is that you are trying to create a completely magnetostatic system. You are naturally avoiding using a power source in your proposed device to avoid any questions about whether it is O/U or not. But a small amount of power in and a lot of power out is better than no power in and a little power out. My research into nonreciprocal systems, causality, and time indicate that a noreciprocal system must be joined with a highly resonant system in order to create an overunity measurement in the apparatus outside. I use the word "measurement" carefully. In the case of a Hall or Corbino effect device the resonant circuit can be supplied by an oscillating DC magnetic field. To accomplish this an inductor is wound around a permanent magnet so that the PM field is .04 T., and an inductor is wound around the PM with a sine input such that the combined field ranges between between 0 and .08 T. This is a fairly small field. Use a sine wave frequency generator and a high impedance voltage follower to drive the parallel resonant circuit including the inductor/PM combination and a capacitor. Use a frequency of about 10 Khz at first (depending on the magnetic material of the PM) then pan up from there. Placed on the end of this inductor is a disc of pure Bismuth (the magnetic field must be 90 degrees from the plane of the disc). You could also try undoped arsenic antimonide (commercial magnetoresistors are doped and have to high losses). Bismuth is by far the easiest choice. The disc has an electrode (preferably silver of gold, but copper's ok) through the center, and an electrode ring aound the edge. It is important to get good metal to metal bonding there. The central and outer electrodes are connected through the test load. The disc is about 5-10 cm. thick. When the tank circuit is operated and there is an oscillating magnetic field through the Bi disc, it generates an alternating potential across the two electrodes, thus an alternating current in the load. Low-voltage currents of about one A. should be possible with a device like I describe. This device operates because of the third Corbino effect, which says that when a varying magnetic field is applied to discs made of materials with large Hall coefficients and relatively high conductivities, a current will flow from center to periphery or the reverse. Note that this is a form of the Hall effect, a proven nonreciprocal effect used to create nonreciprocal devices in the lab. The current in the plate has no effect on the magnetic field or inductance of the magnet. The point of this is that the current generated in the hall or Corbino plate is NOT THE RESULT OF INDUCTION in the normal sense and has NO LOADING of the resonant input cicuit, by the definition of a nonreciprocal system. Thus if the input circuit has a high Q the same current (so to speak) can be used over and over again to generate the hall current, the only losses being the coil resistance, capacitor leakage, and iron and hysteresis losses. Of course it is not a perfect arrangement because of the losses, but the circuit as a whole should AT LEAST operate a little more than 100% as a total system. This was the first Hall effect design I made up about 6 months ago. Recently I saw how you could use commercial Hall sensors, even though the resistance is fairly high. This device uses a resonant circuit, a number of Hall effect plates, and a number of powerful magnets. It simply consists of a high Q resonant tank circuit with a goodly number (the more the better) of HE plates connected in parallel so their total resistance is minimized. Each HE plate has an associated powerful magnet, or they use different poles of the same magnet. Each HE plate of course also has its output voltage and these outputs are connected together to drive a load. If the Q of the circuit can be made high enough, losses from the driver will be less than the voltage or current output from the Hall plates. Power outputs from these devices are low but they demonstrate principles. Fred BTW I have refs to back this up if anybody's interested. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 03:36:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA18281 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 03:36:09 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 03:36:09 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 03:36:06 1997 Received: from arl-img-7.compuserve.com (arl-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.217.137]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA18055 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 03:36:05 -0700 Received: by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id GAA16929; Sun, 4 May 1997 06:35:35 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 06:29:39 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504102938_515664.456256_CHU63-14@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 23 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Creepy attack on the Hall effect Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-9.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id FAA26376; Sun, 4 May 1997 05:47:07 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA02017; Sun, 4 May 1997 02:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 02:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336C2568.3F2A@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 22:58:00 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Creepy attack on the Hall effect Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pGZFQ2.0.NV.zh5Rp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2944 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Horace and all others interested in the "creepy attack", I'll be the first to admit that I have not been reading the "creepy" posts with any regularity so I am truly jumping in where angels fear to tread, but I will speak my piece anyway. I agree with you that there is a magnetostatic gradient effect (or effects). It's also possible that there are magnetic monopoles as Ehrenfest reported in his experiments with making Hydrogen with a magnet. I think these effects are well worth investigating for their basic science value. The gradient is used as a power source in the Spence patent and I would recommend looking this up. Apparently this device worked but self-destructed after several hours because of electron damage to the magnets or something. I'm not going to dwell on theses types of effects here but on the Hall effect and the basic nature of the physical processes we are discussing. The Hall effect, the Corbino effect, and certain microwave effects are nonreciprocal processes. What this means is that the energy conversion process is one-way. If you take a circuit containing one of these devices and apply an output to the input and an input to the output the effects are not the same. Often there is no energy coming out the input even if energy is applied at the output. It was proven in the 40's and 50's that these systems could exist, based on the work of Tellegen on gyrators. Nonreciprocal microwave devices based on the gyromagnetic properties of ferrites were quickly developed, and are used extensively in this region with high efficiency. It is more difficult to efficiently implement true nonreciprocal systems at lower frequencies, with one exception, the mechanical gyroscopic system, which I'll talk about in another post. It is possible to create a number of overunity generators from the Hall and Corbino efects, but they must be built with the proper materials to reach high efficiencies. I've suggested using Bismuth, the original Hall effect material, in a certain way. Herbert, the difficulty with your approach as I see it (and admittedly I see it very vaguely if at all) is that you are trying to create a completely magnetostatic system. You are naturally avoiding using a power source in your proposed device to avoid any questions about whether it is O/U or not. But a small amount of power in and a lot of power out is better than no power in and a little power out. My research into nonreciprocal systems, causality, and time indicate that a noreciprocal system must be joined with a highly resonant system in order to create an overunity measurement in the apparatus outside. I use the word "measurement" carefully. In the case of a Hall or Corbino effect device the resonant circuit can be supplied by an oscillating DC magnetic field. To accomplish this an inductor is wound around a permanent magnet so that the PM field is .04 T., and an inductor is wound around the PM with a sine input such that the combined field ranges between between 0 and .08 T. This is a fairly small field. Use a sine wave frequency generator and a high impedance voltage follower to drive the parallel resonant circuit including the inductor/PM combination and a capacitor. Use a frequency of about 10 Khz at first (depending on the magnetic material of the PM) then pan up from there. Placed on the end of this inductor is a disc of pure Bismuth (the magnetic field must be 90 degrees from the plane of the disc). You could also try undoped arsenic antimonide (commercial magnetoresistors are doped and have to high losses). Bismuth is by far the easiest choice. The disc has an electrode (preferably silver of gold, but copper's ok) through the center, and an electrode ring aound the edge. It is important to get good metal to metal bonding there. The central and outer electrodes are connected through the test load. The disc is about 5-10 cm. thick. When the tank circuit is operated and there is an oscillating magnetic field through the Bi disc, it generates an alternating potential across the two electrodes, thus an alternating current in the load. Low-voltage currents of about one A. should be possible with a device like I describe. This device operates because of the third Corbino effect, which says that when a varying magnetic field is applied to discs made of materials with large Hall coefficients and relatively high conductivities, a current will flow from center to periphery or the reverse. Note that this is a form of the Hall effect, a proven nonreciprocal effect used to create nonreciprocal devices in the lab. The current in the plate has no effect on the magnetic field or inductance of the magnet. The point of this is that the current generated in the hall or Corbino plate is NOT THE RESULT OF INDUCTION in the normal sense and has NO LOADING of the resonant input cicuit, by the definition of a nonreciprocal system. Thus if the input circuit has a high Q the same current (so to speak) can be used over and over again to generate the hall current, the only losses being the coil resistance, capacitor leakage, and iron and hysteresis losses. Of course it is not a perfect arrangement because of the losses, but the circuit as a whole should AT LEAST operate a little more than 100% as a total system. This was the first Hall effect design I made up about 6 months ago. Recently I saw how you could use commercial Hall sensors, even though the resistance is fairly high. This device uses a resonant circuit, a number of Hall effect plates, and a number of powerful magnets. It simply consists of a high Q resonant tank circuit with a goodly number (the more the better) of HE plates connected in parallel so their total resistance is minimized. Each HE plate has an associated powerful magnet, or they use different poles of the same magnet. Each HE plate of course also has its output voltage and these outputs are connected together to drive a load. If the Q of the circuit can be made high enough, losses from the driver will be less than the voltage or current output from the Hall plates. Power outputs from these devices are low but they demonstrate principles. Fred BTW I have refs to back this up if anybody's interested. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 03:36:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA18496 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 03:36:17 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 03:36:17 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 03:36:06 1997 Received: from arl-img-7.compuserve.com (arl-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.217.137]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA18056 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 03:36:06 -0700 Received: by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id GAA16937; Sun, 4 May 1997 06:35:36 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 06:29:55 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504102954_515664.456256_BHP59-16@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 18 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #158 Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-9.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA23758; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:21:03 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA11093; Sat, 3 May 1997 19:16:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 19:16:33 -0700 From: jgassaway@webzone.net Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970504021737.006aaf44@webzone.net> X-Sender: jgassaway@webzone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:17:37 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #158 Resent-Message-ID: <"x23GN3.0.Fj2.06_Qp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2941 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Lots of white light hits the sun and passes thru the atmosphere. The deeper it gets the more the blue light spreads away. By the time it hits the ground, the white light turns yellow. I think everybody should drive BMWs, and Jeeps. I like 'em, don't you? Make sure your trash can lids are on tight! Nighty-night, and have a pleasant tommarrow!!!At 06:53 PM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >freenrg-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 158 > >Today's Topics: > Positive Nrg >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:17:54 -0400 >From: "O'Connor" >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Positive Nrg >Message-ID: <336BE3BD.20ED@bciu.k12.pa.us> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Does anyone have any opinions on telekenisis? Any unique ways of looking >at it, or any possible ways of showing that it is a reality? > >Personally, I believe in it 100%, but I don't have much logical proof >behind it. I believe that every object contains a certain amount of >positive nrg, and that nothing unreal exists...but I need some other >observations and ideas. Please share whatever is on your mind. > >-Shannon > >"Eschew Obfuscation" > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 05:59:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA09586 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 05:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 05:59:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: jgassaway@webzone.net Sun May 4 05:59:35 1997 Received: from ns.webzone.net (ns.webzone.net [205.219.23.2]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA09576 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 05:59:30 -0700 (PDT) From: jgassaway@webzone.net Received: from justin.gorilla.net ([208.137.185.55]) by ns.webzone.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-12689) with SMTP id AAA196 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 07:54:41 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970504125945.006bc85c@webzone.net> X-Sender: jgassaway@webzone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Old-Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 07:59:45 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #159 X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: unssubscribeAt 07:22 PM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >freenrg-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 159 > >Today's Topics: > Re: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #157 >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 20:45:01 -0500 >From: jgassaway@webzone.net >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #157 >Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970504014501.0069cbdc@webzone.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >get me off the list1At 06:28 PM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >>freenrg-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 157 >> >>Today's Topics: >> Simple OU Device >> Simple Ou Device >> Re: Simple OU Device effects >> Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! >> Re: Looking for meter >> Re: permanent? magnets >> Re: Simple OU Device effects >> The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated >> Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? >> Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? >> Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? >> Re: Simple OU Device effects >> Re: Simple OU Device effects >> Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info >> Re: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info >> Re: Simple OU Device effects >> Re: Simple OU Device effects >> Strange pattern on a glass-window >> Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! >> coler document >> Simple OU Device >> Free Energy receiver >> Re: coler document >> This is what we are building ! >> Re: coler document >> Re: Free Energy receiver >> Re: Simple OU Device >> LIGHTNING >>Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 10:24:05 +0930 >>From: Greg Watson >>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, >> freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Simple OU Device >>Message-ID: <336A8CAD.2EC@microtronics.com.au> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >>HI All, >> >>Thanks for all the feedback. I vaule it all. >> >>Here is my test setup and the results I get with my linear unit. >> >> >>Test Setup: >>=========== >> >>The test setup is composed of 4 sections, all joined end to end and made >>as level as possible. The release is on the right side and the exit is >>on the left. The sections are composed of 12mm alum "U" channel upon >>which a 12mm steel boll rolls from right to left. >> >> ......Exit......Black Box.......Entry.......Release >> >>1) Release section: >> This is a 100mm section of alum 12mm alum "U" channel attached to the >>entry track. The release section is bent up at approx 5 deg. A small >>notch has been filed up the ramp as a index to assist the ball being >>released every time at the same position. The notch position was >>determined with the "Black Box" section removed and varying the release >>point to get the ball to just roll to the end of the 1mtr entry track >>without dropping over the end. This I assumed gave me as close as zero >>ball energy at the entry point of the "Black Box" as possible. >> >>2) Entry section: >> This is a 1mtr long section of 12mm alum "U" channel as level as I can >>make it. >> >>3) Black Box Section: >> This unit contains magnets and more of the 12mm alum "U" channel. The >>entry and exit track are at the same level. The ball is pulled up the >>ramp by a graduated B field. >> >>4) Exit section: >> This is a 1mtr long sectin of 12mm alum "U" channel as level as I can >>make it. >> >>All sections are level and at the same height. >> >> >>Test Results: >>============= >> >>The steel ball is placed on the "calibrated" release notch and released. >> >>It roll down the release ramp and onto the entry track. >> >>As it rolls along the entry track, the ball starts to slow. >> >>Then it gets to with-in 75-100mm from the end of the entry track or from >>the start of the "Black Box" section. the ball starts rolling at a >>constant speed and slightly accelerates as it crosses over into the >>"Black Box" section. >> >>It leaves the "Black Box" section showing some slight drag back with-in >>the first 25-50mm and then happily rolls off the end of the 1 mtr exit >>track. >> >> >>Further Testing: >>================ >> >>I have constructed a working three ramp unit to investigate the change >>in "Black Box" input alterations due to the influence of the exit >>field. The testing here was to investigate the problems in attempting >>to close the loop. I could not get two units oriented at right angles >>to work due to the complexs interactions of the exit and entry fields. >>My idea here was to use 4 units set a right angles to each other to form >>a square and thus close the loop. The three unit linear model does >>work. >> >> >>Conclusions on the Linear Unit: >>=============================== >> >>A real energy gain is shown as well as the ability to move a mass. The >>energy gain seems to be around 20-30%. Closing the loop with such a >>model seems difficult as the frictional losses in returning the ball to >>the enrty point would be large. >> >> >>Rotary Unit: >>============ >> >>My current work is centered on a rotary unit, quite different to the >>above. >> >> >>Long Term Intentions: >>===================== >> >>I do not intend to manuf a thing. A license to use the technology will >>be available to any one who wishes to use it at a VERY LOW COST. My >>current thinking is around $100 upfront and $1 / 1kw generation capacity >>per unit on a decreasing sliding scale. I believe if the technology is >>available cheaply enough, its simpler and less costly in the long run to >>license it than steal it. >> >>As to getting rich, if my shareholders do, so will I. >> >> >>References: >>=========== >> >>US Patent 4,215,330 issued 29 July, 1980. Check it out. >> >> >>Test Group: >>=========== >> >>This patent was posted to the 9 members of my test group. While is is >>not my device, is is close and an understanding of the patent would be >>of benefit. To my knowledge, 4 members have constructed actual units. >>I included in the group several critics to help keep us all honest. >> >>, >>, >>, *Constructed* >>, *Constructed* >>, *Constructed* >>, *Constructed* >>, *Working on a unit* >>, >>, >>, *Constructed* >> >> >>The group was formed to reduce list traffic and help to keep discussions >>in control. If you wish to jon the group and be involved in actual >>construction and discussions please let me know. >> >>I should point out that the guys at Earth Tech are willing to test a >>"closed loop unit" unit at no charge. I have accepted. >> >>-- >>Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >>Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >> 61 18 833 461 Mobile >>Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 11:11:17 +0930 >>From: Greg Watson >>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, >> freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Simple Ou Device >>Message-ID: <336A97BD.11AE@microtronics.com.au> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >>Hi All, >> >>Here is the link to the Patent 4,215,330 : >> >>Right click on each image/page to save it to disk and then use any gif >>viewer to view or print it. >> >>This is not my device, but is close enough for you to build if you want >>to have a go and experiment. It does work. >> >>http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4215330 >> >>-- >>Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >>Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >> 61 18 833 461 Mobile >>Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 18:52:47 -0700 >>From: Epitaxy >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >>Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502185246.00a5e1b4@mail.localaccess.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>Yes, I agree magnets do work (just like springs)... I don't think anybody >>with a little logic could disagree with this. >> >> >>The work done by the magnet is simply the amount of force exercised by the >>magnet over the distance which this force acts on something. >> >>If [W] denotes work, [F] force, [m] mass, [a] acceleration, [v] velocity, >>[d] distance traveled >> >>...according to the basic formula [W=fd] meaning that if a magnets attract >>ANY mass with a force of 1 Newton over the distance of 1 meter than the >>work done by/against the magnet will equal to 1 Joule. >> >>NOTE: that it doesn't matter if the attracted mass is 1 gram or 1 ton, the >>amount of work the magnet does to attract it for over 1 meter is 1 Joule, >>IN BOTH CASES ! >> >>You can express the work [W] done by the magnet in variety of other ways, >>for example [W=mad] meaning a certain mass [m] accelerating at a certain >>rate [a] for a certain distance [d] denotes certain work done by the magnet >> >>... or [W=0.5mv^2] meaning that a magnet attracting certain mass [m] will >>accelerate it to a certain velocity [v] and the expression [0.5mv^2] will >>represent the amount of work [W] the magnet has done. >> >> >>The issue whether any work has to be done AGAINST the magnet before any >>work is done BY the magnet, is a completely different issue and very >>dependent on how large the "box" is. >> >> >> >> >>At 10:21 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>>This started out as a preliminary stab at the effects of using Greg's >>>magnetic ramp as an energy source. But it ends up skirting the issue, and >>>becomes sort of a way of conventionally explaining what's going on, in real >>>shallow terms :-). >>> >>>First, magnets have been doing work ever since we started using them. When >>>you put a magnet up on the refrigerator, it does work as it pulls your hand >>>with it toward the metal. You do an equivalent amount of work when you >>>un-stick it later, but the magnet still did work. The magnet's work was >>>balanced by your work. >>> >>>Gravity also does work, no? When you climb up a flight of stairs, you do >>>lots of work to counter gravity. If you fall back down, gravity has done >>>work. The system is balanced (even if you are not). >>> >>>In a permanent-magnet motor, the magnets are doing work. It is balanced by >>>the work of the electromagnets, using electricity as their energy source. >>> >>>Permanent magnets are in wide use, and they are doing work. It's just that >>>their work is usually balanced by energies that we provide. >>> >>>Greg's ramp is using one form of energy (gravitational) that we usually >>>have to balance with our own energy, to offset another form of energy >>>(magnetic) that we also usually have to balance with our own efforts. No >>>big deal, right? >>> >>>Does anyone ever wonder whether we're depleting the Earth's gravitational >>>energy when we fall down? >>> >>>In the same way, we've never stopped to wonder what the *efffects* of using >>>magnets may be. Greg's asking a good question that maybe should be answered >>>for our current, "conventional" widespread use of magnets. >>> >>> >>>Dan >>> >>> >>Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:05:39 -0700 >>From: Epitaxy >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! >>Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502190537.00a5e1b4@mail.localaccess.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>...and the sum of earth's angular momentum + the heat radiated into space >>after we slowed down the earth a little with our infernal device, should be >>equal to the earth's angular momentum before we starting to perform our >>evil deed. >> >>...I don't understand why any one of you would like to limit the >>conservation of energy "generalization" ONLY to the mechanical angular >>momentum. Electrical energy or EM radiation like heat are as "good" forms >>of energy as mechanical momentum. >> >>If these energies could, they would sue you for unfair discrimination >>(anthropomorphically speaking...) >> >>P.S. >> >>I remember reading somewhere that the earth's rotation rate is altered by >>man-made water reservoirs. (ballerina effect) >> >>At 10:36 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>>Larry Wharton wrote: >>>> No such invention can possibly work because of conservation of angular >>>> momentum. If the Earth's rotation slows down then the angular momentum >>>> would decrease and that is not allowed. Only if angular momentum is >>>> exchanged with some third body orbiting the Earth, like the Moon, such that >>>> the total is constant could this idea work. Through the years there have >>>> been many schemes like this proposed and they all don't involve the Moon >>>> and they all don't work. >>> >>>The moon has nothing to do with this particular invention. >>>I will dig out some info about this device and post a >>>description. >>> >>>For sure, angular momentum must be conserved in a closed system. >>>But the earth-moon is not a closed system. In fact, given >>>an ample amount of time, the only truly closed system is >>>the entire universe -- maybe not even that. >>> >>>In this particular invention, angular momentum is transferred >>>from the body of the earth, to an electro-magnetic field and/or >>>mechanical device which can do useful work on or near the earth's >>>surface, and then to waste heat at the surface and in the >>>atmosphere, and eventually radiated into space. >>> >>>Regards, >>>Robert Stirniman >>> >>> >>Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:49:11 -0700 >>From: Epitaxy >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: Looking for meter >>Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502194910.00a69d00@mail.localaccess.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>Tucker Surplus gas some 6 digit desktop DMM with 10uA DC range. I gave >>seen other equipment in other catalogs but don't want to go and search >>through stack of ne right now. If you are still unsuccessful in finding >>what you need, I'll browse. Let me know >> >>At 12:43 PM 5/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >>>I am trying to locate a reasonably priced meter to measure very low >>>currents (in nA) and voltages (uV). The best I've located so far is The >>>TENMA AC Millivolt Meter ($175 from MCM Electronics, cat #72-450). It has >>>the disadvantage of being AC voltage only and analog, but goes down to a >>>0-300 uV range, and has amplified output for an oscilloscope. >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>>Horace Heffner >>> >>> >>> >>Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:53:41 -0700 >>From: Epitaxy >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: permanent? magnets >>Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502195339.00a6bdfc@mail.localaccess.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>Yes, a permanent magnet not subjected to H fields above the B/H curve >>demagnetization knee, or curie temperature or critical G shock, will last >>forever. >> >> >>At 05:53 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >>>I don't have any references, but I know the standard theory is, and my >>>experience has been, so long as you do not introduce reverse fields large >>>enough to actually start to demagnetize a magnet, a "good" magnet is not in >>>any measurable way effected by use. ie you can use it in reversible field >>>configurations indefinitely without in any way "consuming" its energy. Does >>>anyone else have any other opinions? >>> >>> >>> >>> Keasy >>> >>> >>Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 21:54:16 -0700 >>From: Epitaxy >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >>Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502215412.00a68180@mail.localaccess.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>I disagree. If you look at Greg's description below, the inclined release >>track is there ONLY to overcome the frictional losses of the entry track. >>Greg clearly states "zero ball energy at the entry point...", also the >>statement "... with the Black Box section removed..." is significant. >> >>In Greg's device the ball does NOT suffer repulsion as it enters the >>BlackBox, on the contrary, the ball is always attracted to the entry point. >> >>The reason for the calibrated release track is simple. If the release >>track was not used and the ball was far away from the Black Box on the >>level entry track only, the magnetic attraction would not be strong enough >>to get the ball moving from such a distance. Please remember that static >>friction is greater than dynamic (moving) friction. By using the inclined >>release track Greg overcomes the starting friction and is able to measure >>the work [W=Fd] over a large distance even if the distance [d] is is large >>and [F] to small to get the ball rolling. >> >>Please remember that if the Black Box was absent, the system of the release >>and exit track would impart exactly ZERO kinetic energy to the ball at the >>entry point (end of the entry track) >> >>The dilution of the back attraction force over a large distance is what >>worries me, and I dare to state that this is the only possible flaw in >>Greg's analysis. (back-attraction force integrated over exit distance). >> >>All of the other objections that people have been voicing (ie. >>demagnetization of the magnets, input energy, eddy currents, etc..) are >>silly, insignificant and could be all avoided if they took the time to >>understand what Greg is writing. >> >>Permanent magnets do not get demagnetized by performing work in the form of >>ferrite attraction. Demagnetization and magnet breakdown only happens if >>you push them to hard (ie. excessive H field from a coil or another >>stronger magnet, mechanical shock over critical G and thermal curie point). >>Almost everything can be destroyed if you push it to hard, it doesn't mean >>that it gets used up otherwise... >> >> >> >> >> >>At 11:34 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >>>One thing that bothers me is that Greg says the release track is ramped >>>at about 5 deg - so this rig DOES have an input energy >> >>At 10:24 AM 5/3/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >>>>...with the "Black Box" section removed and varying the release >>>>point to get the ball to just roll to the end of the 1mtr entry track >>>>without dropping over the end. This I assumed gave me as close as zero >>>>ball energy at the entry point of the "Black Box" as possible. >>Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:11:40 -0800 >>From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated >>Message-Id: >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: >> >>http://www.padrak.com/ine/ >> >>Most New Data Files are at: >> >>http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT >> >>------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ >>Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions >>------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>May 3, 1997 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 4, No. 12, April 1997 >> So You Want To Be Involved In New Energy? >> Calibration For Cold Fusion >> Cold Fusion Bibliography Updated! >> NASA Preparing For The Future >> Gravitation Shielding Possible >> The Nature Of The Aether >> World Energy Report >> Letter From Hal Puthoff (On SHARP Drive) >> Added: Proceedings of The 1996 International Conference On >> New Ideas In Natural Sciences (Forward, >> Conclusions, and Videotapes Available) >> Updated: Fabulous Facts File, >> Websites, People, Organizations, etc. >> Site Counter = 98,515 >> >>Dr. Patrick G. Bailey >>President, Institute for New Energy >>http://www.padrak.com/ine/ >>Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:24:30 -0700 >>From: Epitaxy >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell >>Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? >>Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502222428.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>I agree to the paragraph below. >> >>Does Greg disagree ? >> >>At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>>But in the case of an RLC in series >>>with a constant current power supply the supply voltage will have to >>>increase in order for the current to remain constant as the voltage >>>across the inductor increases trying to reduce the current such that the >>>energy remains the same in the inductor, thus energy in the inductor >>>will increase as L increases because the current has NOT changed >>>(assuming the P/S has done its job) - and this extra energy has come >>>from the power supply. >>Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:31:45 -0700 >>From: Epitaxy >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell >>Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? >>Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223143.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>I agree. The voltage across the coil must increase and be positive to keep >>the coil current constant. That is what constant-current P/S does. If >>this P/S wasn't doing its job than the I would decrease as the L increased. >> >>The more interesting question is whether the work [W=Fd] done by the >>inductor when attracting the ferrite is done at the expense of stored >>electrical energy [0.5LI^2] ????????????? >> >>No conservation of energy arguments allowed here ! :-) >> >>At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>>The point of contention has to do with the SIGN of the voltage across >>>the coil. The maths say it is positive. Greg Watson says it is negative >>>- but he has not responded to that point. >>Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:34:22 -0700 >>From: Epitaxy >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell >>Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? >>Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223421.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>Err.. I have a problem with: "...due to a positive voltage induced across >>the L..." >> >>Please rephrase and elaborate. >>... >> >>At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>>In the case of a constant-voltage P/S in series with the RLC there would >>>be no voltage change across the P/S but the current in R would drop due >>>to a positive voltage induced across the L. >>> >>> >>>L R >>>////--0------<><><><>----------0 `````````` >>>//// ^ | | >>>//// | dL/dt V | P/S | >>>////--0------------------------0 |......... >>> >>>--- >>>Maxwell >>> >>> >>> >>Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:37:50 -0700 >>From: Epitaxy >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "Francis J. Stenger" >>Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >>Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223748.00a7d2e4@mail.localaccess.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >>centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >>pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. >> >>At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >>> >>>OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >>>doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >>>friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >>>reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >>>approach. >>Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 15:29:31 +0930 >>From: Greg Watson >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >>Message-ID: <336AD443.2938@microtronics.com.au> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >>Epitaxy wrote: >>> >>> Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >>> centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >>> pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. >> >>I agree, even though I haven't seen the referenced post. >> >>> At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >>> > >>> >OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >>> >doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >>> >friction to a mimimum >> >>Wouldn't work. >> >>>> - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >>> >reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >>> >approach. >> >>Hi Guys, >> >>Seems I haven't received the post you refer to, anyhow the reason I use >>a alum "U" channel for the ball to roll on is the requirement for the >>ball to be in a balanced magnetic state if reference to the side to side >>magnetic attraction forces exerted by the two side magnet assy. The >>alum channel allows for some unbalanced sideways magnetic forces to >>exist. To be pulled side ways off the track requires the ball to be >>pulled up and over the side of the alum track. >> >>I tried tubing but found this allows side ways slop and greatly reduces >>the graduated mag ramp forces. For max pull into the graduated field, >>side to side magnetic influences must be reduced to less than 5%. >> >>The alum channel didn't just happen. it was the best of several methods, >>considering the job it has to do. >> >>-- >>Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >>Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >>Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:31:33 PST >>From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) >>To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com >>Cc: vortext-L@eskimo.com >>Subject: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info >>Message-ID: <19970220.233139.11894.0.tv@juno.com> >> >>I posted a Web page about the invention of Wesley Gary and his magnet >>motor >>including the missing diagrams that several of you wanted but I could not >>attach >>to email for some reason involving my mail server. >> >>The URL of the "Gary Effect" page is: >> >>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810 >> >>Tim >>Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 01:37:30 -0700 >>From: Jerry Decker >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info >>Message-ID: <336AF94A.7157@keelynet.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >>Hi Tim! >> >>Excellent! Thanks, will add the URL.... >>-- >> Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com >> http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" >> Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 >> KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 >>Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 00:10:49 -0800 >>From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >>Message-Id: >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>At 10:37 PM 5/2/97, Epitaxy wrote: >>>Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >>>centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >>>pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. >> >>A pendulum like so is useful (B are bearings, rest is rigid): >> >> ------B------------B----- >> \ / >> \ / >> \ / >> \ / >> \ / >> \/ >> xx >> >>> >>>At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >>>> >>>>OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >>>>doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >>>>friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >>>>reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >>>>approach. >> >>Regards, >> >>Horace Heffner >>Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 17:49:31 +0930 >>From: Greg Watson >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >>Message-ID: <336AF513.24C9@microtronics.com.au> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >>Horace Heffner wrote: >>> >>> At 10:37 PM 5/2/97, Epitaxy wrote: >>> >Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >>> >centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >>> >pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. >>> >>> A pendulum like so is useful (B are bearings, rest is rigid): >>> >>> ------B------------B----- >>> \ / >>> \ / >>> \ / >>> \ / >>> \ / >>> \/ >>> xx >>> >>> > >>> >At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >>> >> >>> >>OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >>> >>doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >>> >>friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >>> >>reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >>> >>approach. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Horace Heffner >> >>Hi Guys, >> >>Nice pendulum idea Horace. Sorry, but I can't use it. Will file it for >>future reference. >> >>Check out the patent below to get a idea of what is happening in the >>"Black Box" : >> >>http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4215330 >> >>Just click on the link, it will load the first page of the patent. >> >>-- >>Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >>Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >>Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 06:40:37 -0700 >>From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Strange pattern on a glass-window >>Message-Id: <199705031340.GAA15335@mx1.eskimo.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>I have updated my WEB-pages with some pictures showing strange >>pattern on a glass-window that appears when they are misty... >>Kind of reminds me about the David Hammel story. >>exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! >>mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se >>http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm >>Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:30:43 -0400 (EDT) >>From: Keasy@aol.com >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! >>Message-ID: <970503113042_-1031323492@emout07.mail.aol.com> >> >>Regarding this "don't slow down the earth!" issue everyone knows the rotation >>rate of the earth (earth-moon system, actually) is constantly slowing down >>because of tidal effects --- a very small change, however. An interesting >>calculation shows what will eventually happen. Results are posted at >>http://members.aol.com/Keasy and follow the earth/moon link. >>Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:36:05 -0700 >>From: "WESLY" >>To: >>Subject: coler document >>Message-Id: <199705031807.LAA09874@claim.goldrush.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >>TO ALL: Can anyone tell me where I can get the original HANS COLER DOCUMENT >>in GERMAN? >>THANKS WES >>Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 14:26:32 -0400 (EDT) >>From: Keasy@aol.com >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Simple OU Device >>Message-ID: <970503142631_-1299795460@emout07.mail.aol.com> >> >>To all, >> This is in response to Greg's posting of his set up and testing with his >>linear unit. >> Several questions/comments/suggestions: >> 1. How is it determined that the exit section is the same level as the >>entry section? This is of course critical. >> 2. If the magnets in the "black box" are in a configuration such that >>the magnetic circuit can be closed to minimize effects outside the "black >>box" volume that might be useful to consider. >> 3. What happens if you add a release ramp (properly set up as in #1) on >>the left of the exit ramp and did the experiment WITH THE BLACK BOX REVERSED, >>from left to right? If you do this and get the same results as from right to >>left (without touching anything else) but turning the "black box" around, >>then things are much more interesting. If, in addition, you measure the >>fields at the entry point and end of exit ramp and they are on the same order >>(in any direction) as the earth's magnetic field, then it does become >>difficult to understand why it is not OU. >> There are undoubtedly other useful approaches to understanding this OU >>device better but these come to mind. >> >> Ken Keasy@aol.com >>Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:55:42 +0200 >>From: Bushi@multinet.net.il (Lev Robert) >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Free Energy receiver >>Message-ID: >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>Hi All >>Why should you work so hard in order to obtain free energy when there are >>devices like the Radiant Energy. I read about it some time ago in the Tesla >>page. There is a patent on this too from 1901 "Utilization of Radiant >>Energy. Since the group is now fairly mature in coil design and since this >>kind of energy generation has no moving parts perhaps the has arived to give >>it a try. >>Robert >>BUSHILEV >>Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:06:07 PST >>From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: coler document >>Message-ID: <19970221.140924.9558.0.tv@juno.com> >> >>The Hans Coler document was never written in German it was a British >>intelligence report, part of Project Paper Clip. Some of the document >>that it quotes however were originally in German and were translated by >>British Intellignence. You could inquire with the British Government >>archives whatever it is called. >> >>Tim >> >>On Sat, 3 May 1997 11:36:05 -0700 "WESLY" writes: >>>TO ALL: Can anyone tell me where I can get the original HANS COLER >>>DOCUMENT >>>in GERMAN? >>>THANKS WES >>> >>> >>Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:07:15 +0200 >>From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) >>To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au >>Cc: newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: This is what we are building ! >>Message-Id: <199705032207.AAA03491@mail.bbtt.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>Hi to all, >> >>cause I am pretty busy with other things I did not have much time >>to post recently on the free-energy lists. >> >>But I wanted to keep you all updated, what we are currently building: >> >>It is a flux switch unit. Today we ordered the plastic revolver >>chamber to hold the iron core material. Have a look at this picture. >> >>It was drawn by Dieter Bauer and he is the one, who pushes it foward. >>Here is the URL for the picture: >> >>http://www.overunity.de/ecklin/fig15.gif >> >>It should be a 3 dimensional side view... >> >>I hope you can imagine how it works... >> >>We hope, that in about 1 month we can have the first measurement results... >> >> >>Please also check out: >> >>http://www.overunity.de/ecklin/ecklin3.htm >> >>Best regards, Stefan. >> >>-- >>Hartmann Multimedia Service >>Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >>Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >>http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: >>www.detours.com www.overunity.com www.berlin-city.com >>www.nylon-fetish.com >>email: harti@harti.com >>Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 16:50:26 -0700 (PDT) >>From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: coler document >>Message-Id: <199705032350.QAA13321@mx2.eskimo.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>>The Hans Coler document was never written in German it was a British >>>intelligence report, part of Project Paper Clip. Some of the document >>>that it quotes however were originally in German and were translated by >>>British Intellignence. You could inquire with the British Government >>>archives whatever it is called. >> >>I have a copy of the Hans Coler report from the British Imperial War >>museum in London. Its on my WEB-pages found thru my signature-file below. >>exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! >>mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se >>http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm >>Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 09:48:14 >>From: Geoff Egel >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: Free Energy receiver >>Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970504094814.2b7f9cc6@main.murray.net.au> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>At 09:55 PM 5/3/97 +0200, you wrote: >>>Hi All >>>Why should you work so hard in order to obtain free energy when there are >>>devices like the Radiant Energy. I read about it some time ago in the Tesla >>>page. There is a patent on this too from 1901 "Utilization of Radiant >>>Energy. Since the group is now fairly mature in coil design and since this >>>kind of energy generation has no moving parts perhaps the has arived to give >>>it a try. >>>Robert >>>BUSHILEV >>> >>> >>>Correct me if I am wrong >> >>But I believe Tesla never actually constructed this device but only >>imagined it. >>Note that this is not problem most of his inventions he conceived this way >>and then had them constructed by his engineers and he claimed they always >>worked. >> >>Geoff Egel >>http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel >>Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 10:02:03 +0930 >>From: Greg Watson >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: Simple OU Device >>Message-ID: <336BD903.1294@microtronics.com.au> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >>Keasy@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> To all, >>> This is in response to Greg's posting of his set up and testing with his >>> linear unit. >>> Several questions/comments/suggestions: >>> 1. How is it determined that the exit section is the same level as the >>> entry section? This is of course critical. >> >>By sighting along the "U" channels. Its not really critical. >> >>> 2. If the magnets in the "black box" are in a configuration such that >>> the magnetic circuit can be closed to minimize effects outside the "black >>> box" volume that might be useful to consider. >> >>Very difficult. >> >>> 3. What happens if you add a release ramp (properly set up as in #1) on >>> the left of the exit ramp and did the experiment WITH THE BLACK BOX REVERSED, >>> from left to right? If you do this and get the same results as from right to >>> left (without touching anything else) but turning the "black box" around, >>> then things are much more interesting. >> >>Hadn't thought of that. I have however taken it appart and put it >>together many times in many different ways. Still works. >> >>> If, in addition, you measure the >>> fields at the entry point and end of exit ramp and they are on the same order >>> (in any direction) as the earth's magnetic field, then it does become >>> difficult to understand why it is not OU. >> >>There are no real entry and exit points. >> >>> There are undoubtedly other useful approaches to understanding this OU >>> device better but these come to mind. >>> >>> Ken Keasy@aol.com >> >>Hi Ken, >> >>Thanks for the input. >> >>-- >>Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >>Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >>Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:18:10 -0400 >>From: "O'Connor" >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: LIGHTNING >>Message-ID: <336BE3CD.1503@bciu.k12.pa.us> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >>I'm just wondering if anyone else out there is wondering why lightning >>is not being harnessed for power usage. >> >>I am positively sure that we have enough technology to capture/harness >>the energy...but we aren't using it in our homes ect yet... >> >>-Shannon >> >>======================== >>= "Eschew Obfuscation" = >>======================== >> > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 06:21:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA24784 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 06:21:04 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 06:21:04 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 06:21:02 1997 Received: from dub-img-5.compuserve.com (dub-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.206.135]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA24616 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 06:21:01 -0700 Received: by dub-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id JAA20913; Sun, 4 May 1997 09:20:30 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 09:02:50 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504130249_515664.456256_IHJ62-12@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to hil-img-9.compuserve.com bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by hil-img-9.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA26257; Sat, 3 May 1997 01:35:18 -0400 Received: from mx2.eskimo.com by relay2.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) id QQcnww02228; Sat, 3 May 1997 01:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA01718; Fri, 2 May 1997 22:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223143.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:31:45 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8DWD6.0.lQ.OtiQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2920 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I agree. The voltage across the coil must increase and be positive to keep the coil current constant. That is what constant-current P/S does. If this P/S wasn't doing its job than the I would decrease as the L increased. The more interesting question is whether the work [W=Fd] done by the inductor when attracting the ferrite is done at the expense of stored electrical energy [0.5LI^2] ????????????? No conservation of energy arguments allowed here ! :-) At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >The point of contention has to do with the SIGN of the voltage across >the coil. The maths say it is positive. Greg Watson says it is negative >- but he has not responded to that point. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 06:57:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA27023 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 06:57:40 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 06:57:40 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 06:57:38 1997 Received: from dub-img-8.compuserve.com (dub-img-8.compuserve.com [149.174.206.138]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA26806 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 06:57:37 -0700 Received: by dub-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id JAA17097; Sun, 4 May 1997 09:57:06 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 09:40:38 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504134037_515664.456256_JHG44-23@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 22 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA28950; Sun, 4 May 1997 01:35:57 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA18197; Sat, 3 May 1997 22:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <336C659F.729@triode.net.au> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 03:32:00 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? References: <3.0.32.19970502223421.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PUXJZ.0.8S4.102Rp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2942 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Epitaxy wrote: > > Err.. I have a problem with: "...due to a positive voltage induced across > the L..." > > Please rephrase and elaborate. > ... > >L R > >////--0------<><><><>----------0 `````````` > >//// ^ | | > >//// | dL/dt V | P/S | > >////--0------------------------0 |......... ok. While the current through L and the value of L is constant there will be no voltage appearing across L. if, however, the value of L changes (due to the u-no-wot going into the u-no-where) then a voltage will appear across L of I*dL/dt. I said 'induced' because we can also think of the voltage being caused by a magnet, magnetised by the flux of L, moving into the coil causing and induced voltage = dPhi/dt (where Phi is the flux in the coil). The flux in the coil changes as the rod is attracted, which will cause the induced voltage across the terminals of the coil. Inductance is derive from Flux. EMF =N*dPhi/dt = N*(dPhi/dI)*(dI/dt) = LdI/dt where L = N*dPhi/dI N is number of turns I is current Phi is flux in coil EMF is induced voltage if L itself is time variant (ie depends on time and not current, L(t)) then EMF = d(LI)/dt = LdI/dt + IdL/dt enuf. -- Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 07:07:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA27610 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 07:07:11 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 07:07:11 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sun May 4 07:07:10 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA27580 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 07:07:09 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA07022 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 07:06:36 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 4 May 1997 07:06:06 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Strange pattern on a glass-window Sent: Sat, May 3, 1997 6:41 AM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 7:06 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 08:20:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA00472; Sun, 4 May 1997 08:19:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 08:19:50 -0700 Message-ID: <336CB68A.1BF4@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 09:17:14 -0700 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Lost Technology & the Aten Band References: <336C2568.3F2A@mail.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qDbId.0.H7.LaARp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2945 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Thought some of you might be interested in some connections from ancient material that might have energy applications; http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/ship.htm seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 08:24:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA01324 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 08:24:07 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 08:24:07 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 08:24:04 1997 Received: from hil-img-10.compuserve.com (hil-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.177.140]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA01109 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 08:24:03 -0700 Received: by hil-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id LAA04587; Sun, 4 May 1997 11:23:32 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 11:20:16 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504152015_515664.456256_IHL71-39@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 19 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Lost Technology & the Aten Band Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by hil-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id LAA04413; Sun, 4 May 1997 11:20:55 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA00471; Sun, 4 May 1997 08:19:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 08:19:50 -0700 Message-ID: <336CB68A.1BF4@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 09:17:14 -0700 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Lost Technology & the Aten Band References: <336C2568.3F2A@mail.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qDbId.0.H7.LaARp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2945 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Folks! Thought some of you might be interested in some connections from ancient material that might have energy applications; http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/ship.htm seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 08:34:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA20993 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 08:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 08:34:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 08:34:34 1997 Received: from hil-img-8.compuserve.com (hil-img-8.compuserve.com [149.174.177.138]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA20800 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 08:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id LAA09170; Sun, 4 May 1997 11:33:34 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 11:18:02 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504151801_515664.456256_IHS117-34@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 20 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Simple OU Device effects Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id VAA20515; Fri, 2 May 1997 21:54:22 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA06837; Fri, 2 May 1997 18:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502185246.00a5e1b4@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 18:52:47 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"r5t9X1.0.lg1.AgfQp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2913 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Yes, I agree magnets do work (just like springs)... I don't think anybody with a little logic could disagree with this. The work done by the magnet is simply the amount of force exercised by the magnet over the distance which this force acts on something. If [W] denotes work, [F] force, [m] mass, [a] acceleration, [v] velocity, [d] distance traveled ...according to the basic formula [W=fd] meaning that if a magnets attract ANY mass with a force of 1 Newton over the distance of 1 meter than the work done by/against the magnet will equal to 1 Joule. NOTE: that it doesn't matter if the attracted mass is 1 gram or 1 ton, the amount of work the magnet does to attract it for over 1 meter is 1 Joule, IN BOTH CASES ! You can express the work [W] done by the magnet in variety of other ways, for example [W=mad] meaning a certain mass [m] accelerating at a certain rate [a] for a certain distance [d] denotes certain work done by the magnet ... or [W=0.5mv^2] meaning that a magnet attracting certain mass [m] will accelerate it to a certain velocity [v] and the expression [0.5mv^2] will represent the amount of work [W] the magnet has done. The issue whether any work has to be done AGAINST the magnet before any work is done BY the magnet, is a completely different issue and very dependent on how large the "box" is. At 10:21 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >This started out as a preliminary stab at the effects of using Greg's >magnetic ramp as an energy source. But it ends up skirting the issue, and >becomes sort of a way of conventionally explaining what's going on, in real >shallow terms :-). > >First, magnets have been doing work ever since we started using them. When >you put a magnet up on the refrigerator, it does work as it pulls your hand >with it toward the metal. You do an equivalent amount of work when you >un-stick it later, but the magnet still did work. The magnet's work was >balanced by your work. > >Gravity also does work, no? When you climb up a flight of stairs, you do >lots of work to counter gravity. If you fall back down, gravity has done >work. The system is balanced (even if you are not). > >In a permanent-magnet motor, the magnets are doing work. It is balanced by >the work of the electromagnets, using electricity as their energy source. > >Permanent magnets are in wide use, and they are doing work. It's just that >their work is usually balanced by energies that we provide. > >Greg's ramp is using one form of energy (gravitational) that we usually >have to balance with our own energy, to offset another form of energy >(magnetic) that we also usually have to balance with our own efforts. No >big deal, right? > >Does anyone ever wonder whether we're depleting the Earth's gravitational >energy when we fall down? > >In the same way, we've never stopped to wonder what the *efffects* of using >magnets may be. Greg's asking a good question that maybe should be answered >for our current, "conventional" widespread use of magnets. > > >Dan > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 08:53:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA03717 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 08:53:24 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 08:53:24 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sun May 4 08:53:19 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA03673 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 08:53:18 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA07114 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 08:52:42 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 4 May 1997 08:52:04 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! Sent: Sat, May 3, 1997 8:32 AM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 8:52 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 09:36:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA26536; Sun, 4 May 1997 09:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 09:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336C855F.23C6@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 05:47:27 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Correction to "creepy attack" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hiUem3.0.XU6.uhBRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2946 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In my post of (late) last night I said: > n inductor is wound around a permanent magnet so that the PM field is > .04 T., and an inductor is wound around the PM with a sine input such > that the combined field ranges between between 0 and .08 T. This is a > fairly small field. Use a sine wave frequency generator and a high THIS IS A MISPRINT! There is only one inductor, wound around a permanent magnet. Sorry about the confusion... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 11:11:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA16933 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 11:11:27 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:11:27 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 11:11:22 1997 Received: from dub-img-10.compuserve.com (dub-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.206.140]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA16669 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 11:11:22 -0700 Received: by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id OAA18852; Sun, 4 May 1997 14:10:50 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 13:53:41 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504175340_515664.456256_IHB49-34@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 21 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Correction to "creepy attack" Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by hil-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id MAA11136; Sun, 4 May 1997 12:38:46 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA26535; Sun, 4 May 1997 09:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 09:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336C855F.23C6@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 05:47:27 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Correction to "creepy attack" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hiUem3.0.XU6.uhBRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2946 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In my post of (late) last night I said: > n inductor is wound around a permanent magnet so that the PM field is > .04 T., and an inductor is wound around the PM with a sine input such > that the combined field ranges between between 0 and .08 T. This is a > fairly small field. Use a sine wave frequency generator and a high THIS IS A MISPRINT! There is only one inductor, wound around a permanent magnet. Sorry about the confusion... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 11:26:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA18148 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 11:26:24 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:26:24 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sun May 4 11:26:22 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA18118 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 11:26:21 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA07324 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 11:25:47 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 4 May 1997 11:24:46 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: coler document Sent: Sat, May 3, 1997 11:11 AM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 11:24 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 11:32:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA09519 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 11:32:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:32:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 11:32:15 1997 Received: from arl-img-9.compuserve.com (arl-img-9.compuserve.com [149.174.217.139]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA09185 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 11:32:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-9.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id OAA16086; Sun, 4 May 1997 14:31:13 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 14:24:38 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504182437_515664.456256_IHR50-8@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 19 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA16870; Sat, 3 May 1997 01:36:02 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA17512; Fri, 2 May 1997 22:34:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:34:24 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223421.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:34:22 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"P91vQ3.0.YH4.UviQp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2921 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Err.. I have a problem with: "...due to a positive voltage induced across the L..." Please rephrase and elaborate. ... At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >In the case of a constant-voltage P/S in series with the RLC there would >be no voltage change across the P/S but the current in R would drop due >to a positive voltage induced across the L. > > >L R >////--0------<><><><>----------0 `````````` >//// ^ | | >//// | dL/dt V | P/S | >////--0------------------------0 |......... > >--- >Maxwell > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 11:56:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA12833 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 11:56:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:56:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sun May 4 11:56:54 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA12795 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 11:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA07376 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 11:55:49 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 4 May 1997 11:55:29 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Simple OU Device Sent: Sat, May 3, 1997 11:35 AM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 11:55 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 12:27:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA24981 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 12:27:26 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 12:27:26 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sun May 4 12:27:24 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA24951 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 12:27:23 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA07456 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 12:26:49 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 4 May 1997 12:26:05 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Free Energy receiver Sent: Sat, May 3, 1997 12:01 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 12:26 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 13:50:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA27434 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 13:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 13:50:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 13:50:24 1997 Received: from arl-img-7.compuserve.com (arl-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.217.137]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA27233 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 13:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA21114; Sun, 4 May 1997 16:49:22 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 16:41:00 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504204059_515664.456256_IHS56-17@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 20 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Positive Nrg Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id CAA14159; Sun, 4 May 1997 02:22:14 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA22285; Sat, 3 May 1997 23:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 23:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:20:01 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: "O'Connor" Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Positive Nrg In-Reply-To: <336BE3BD.20ED@bciu.k12.pa.us> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fOJRt.0.7S5.Kh2Rp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2943 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 3 May 1997, O'Connor wrote: > > Does anyone have any opinions on telekenisis? Any unique ways of looking > at it, or any possible ways of showing that it is a reality? > > Personally, I believe in it 100%, but I don't have much logical proof > behind it. I believe that every object contains a certain amount of > positive nrg, and that nothing unreal exists...but I need some other > observations and ideas. Please share whatever is on your mind. Hi! Actually, my theory is that telekinesis, as well as many, if not all psionic or psychic powers *may* be possible through our minds creating or manipulating virtual particles. Virtual particles facilitate the exchange of energy. We all can do this to some degree, but those with the correct neural nets can do it efficiently enough to produce semi regular results. Just a theory, but..... John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 14:08:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA05566; Sun, 4 May 1997 14:08:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 14:08:14 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705042108.RAA28800@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: Positive Nrg To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 17:08:06 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "John R. Tooker" at May 4, 97 00:20:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"-8KhA.0.tM1.zgFRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2947 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: We all run on electricity! Why can't we control it to some extent? Andrew > > > > > > On Sat, 3 May 1997, O'Connor wrote: > > > > > Does anyone have any opinions on telekenisis? Any unique ways of looking > > at it, or any possible ways of showing that it is a reality? > > > > Personally, I believe in it 100%, but I don't have much logical proof > > behind it. I believe that every object contains a certain amount of > > positive nrg, and that nothing unreal exists...but I need some other > > observations and ideas. Please share whatever is on your mind. > Hi! > Actually, my theory is that telekinesis, as well as many, if not all > psionic or psychic powers *may* be possible through our minds creating or > manipulating virtual particles. Virtual particles facilitate the exchange > of energy. We all can do this to some degree, but those with the correct > neural nets can do it efficiently enough to produce semi regular results. > Just a theory, but..... > John > > -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 14:46:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA04513 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 14:46:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 14:46:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sun May 4 14:46:20 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA04478 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 14:46:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA07671 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 14:45:15 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 4 May 1997 14:45:02 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: coler document Sent: Sat, May 3, 1997 2:16 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 2:45 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 15:24:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA15018; Sun, 4 May 1997 15:24:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:24:27 -0700 Message-ID: <336D0C78.1115@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 15:23:52 -0700 From: "Philip R. Gantt" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Positive Nrg References: <199705042108.RAA28800@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2OxZ01.0.Vg3.QoGRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2948 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Science wig. sig. wrote: > > We all run on electricity! Why can't we control it to some extent? > Andrew We can. You only need a little guidance on how to manipulate the energy. > > On Sat, 3 May 1997, O'Connor wrote: > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any opinions on telekenisis? Any unique ways of looking > > > at it, or any possible ways of showing that it is a reality? > > > > > > Personally, I believe in it 100%, but I don't have much logical proof > > > behind it. I believe that every object contains a certain amount of > > > positive nrg, and that nothing unreal exists...but I need some other > > > observations and ideas. Please share whatever is on your mind. > > Hi! > > Actually, my theory is that telekinesis, as well as many, if not all > > psionic or psychic powers *may* be possible through our minds creating or > > manipulating virtual particles. Virtual particles facilitate the exchange > > of energy. We all can do this to some degree, but those with the correct > > neural nets can do it efficiently enough to produce semi regular results. > > Just a theory, but..... > > John -- In Love and Light, Phil Gantt http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 15:25:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA09339 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 15:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:25:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sun May 4 15:25:12 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA09301 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 15:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA07713 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 15:24:09 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 4 May 1997 15:23:29 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: This is what we are building ! Sent: Sat, May 3, 1997 3:08 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 3:23 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 15:33:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA16000 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 15:33:12 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:33:12 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 15:33:07 1997 Received: from hil-img-4.compuserve.com (hil-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.177.134]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA15786 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 15:33:06 -0700 Received: by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA22594; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:32:32 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 18:26:52 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504222651_515664.456256_JHN59-36@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 16 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Positive Nrg Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by hil-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA27752; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:26:15 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA15017; Sun, 4 May 1997 15:24:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:24:27 -0700 Message-ID: <336D0C78.1115@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 15:23:52 -0700 From: "Philip R. Gantt" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Positive Nrg References: <199705042108.RAA28800@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2OxZ01.0.Vg3.QoGRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2948 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Science wig. sig. wrote: > > We all run on electricity! Why can't we control it to some extent? > Andrew We can. You only need a little guidance on how to manipulate the energy. > > On Sat, 3 May 1997, O'Connor wrote: > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any opinions on telekenisis? Any unique ways of looking > > > at it, or any possible ways of showing that it is a reality? > > > > > > Personally, I believe in it 100%, but I don't have much logical proof > > > behind it. I believe that every object contains a certain amount of > > > positive nrg, and that nothing unreal exists...but I need some other > > > observations and ideas. Please share whatever is on your mind. > > Hi! > > Actually, my theory is that telekinesis, as well as many, if not all > > psionic or psychic powers *may* be possible through our minds creating or > > manipulating virtual particles. Virtual particles facilitate the exchange > > of energy. We all can do this to some degree, but those with the correct > > neural nets can do it efficiently enough to produce semi regular results. > > Just a theory, but..... > > John -- In Love and Light, Phil Gantt http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 15:40:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA17239; Sun, 4 May 1997 15:40:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:40:08 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:40:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199705042240.PAA17176@mx1.eskimo.com> X-Sender: johnnyfg@mail.algonet.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) Subject: Re: Positive Nrg Resent-Message-ID: <"5T_yU2.0.FD4.71HRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2949 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >We all run on electricity! Why can't we control it to some extent? >Andrew >> > Does anyone have any opinions on telekenisis? Any unique ways of looking >> > at it, or any possible ways of showing that it is a reality? Maybe a security function of nature itself. Only those who can use those forces are going have access to them ... You have to be emotionally stable to reach you mental-level. exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 15:47:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA13098 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 15:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:47:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 15:46:47 1997 Received: from hil-img-4.compuserve.com (hil-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.177.134]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA12864 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 15:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA23853; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:45:46 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 18:39:38 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504223937_515664.456256_IHS49-27@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 16 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Positive Nrg Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA24852; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:41:06 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA17238; Sun, 4 May 1997 15:40:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:40:08 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:40:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199705042240.PAA17176@mx1.eskimo.com> X-Sender: johnnyfg@mail.algonet.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) Subject: Re: Positive Nrg Resent-Message-ID: <"5T_yU2.0.FD4.71HRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2949 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >We all run on electricity! Why can't we control it to some extent? >Andrew >> > Does anyone have any opinions on telekenisis? Any unique ways of looking >> > at it, or any possible ways of showing that it is a reality? Maybe a security function of nature itself. Only those who can use those forces are going have access to them ... You have to be emotionally stable to reach you mental-level. exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 16:22:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA24099; Sun, 4 May 1997 16:22:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 16:22:49 -0700 From: mindtech@om.com.au Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:07:39 +1000 Message-Id: <9705042307.AA16193@atom.om.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@om.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Creepy attack on the Hall effect Resent-Message-ID: <"LUERj.0.Su5.8fHRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2950 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >When the tank circuit is operated, and there is an oscillating >magnetic field through the Bi disc, it generates an alternating >potential across the two electrodes, thus an alternating current in the >load. Low-voltage currents of about one A. should be possible with a >device like I describe. > Use converging coils, one on each side. Place the Bismuth disk between two others of slightly smaller diameter, any conductive material. Sandwich mylar film between. Use the resulting capacitance, in series, to tune your (HV) tank circuit. Rotate the Bismuth disk CCW between the outer two. Measure again. >Recently I saw how you could use commercial Hall sensors, even though >the resistance is fairly high. > Has anyone experimented with Pielter effect devices or solar cells under applied fields? There is work being done at the University of NSW on boosting the output of solar cells by placement with an electrostatic field. It is apparently not being discussed openly, but I know results are positive. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 16:32:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA25355 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 16:32:26 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 16:32:26 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 16:32:22 1997 Received: from hil-img-2.compuserve.com (hil-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.177.132]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA25143 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 16:32:22 -0700 Received: by hil-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id TAA09036; Sun, 4 May 1997 19:31:51 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 19:22:52 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970504232251_515664.456256_IHJ33-25@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 17 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Creepy attack on the Hall effect Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by hil-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id TAA06632; Sun, 4 May 1997 19:24:15 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA24098; Sun, 4 May 1997 16:22:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 16:22:50 -0700 From: mindtech@om.com.au Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:07:39 +1000 Message-Id: <9705042307.AA16193@atom.om.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@om.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Creepy attack on the Hall effect Resent-Message-ID: <"LUERj.0.Su5.8fHRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2950 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >When the tank circuit is operated, and there is an oscillating >magnetic field through the Bi disc, it generates an alternating >potential across the two electrodes, thus an alternating current in the >load. Low-voltage currents of about one A. should be possible with a >device like I describe. > Use converging coils, one on each side. Place the Bismuth disk between two others of slightly smaller diameter, any conductive material. Sandwich mylar film between. Use the resulting capacitance, in series, to tune your (HV) tank circuit. Rotate the Bismuth disk CCW between the outer two. Measure again. >Recently I saw how you could use commercial Hall sensors, even though >the resistance is fairly high. > Has anyone experimented with Pielter effect devices or solar cells under applied fields? There is work being done at the University of NSW on boosting the output of solar cells by placement with an electrostatic field. It is apparently not being discussed openly, but I know results are positive. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 16:56:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA28069 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 16:56:51 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 16:56:51 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sun May 4 16:56:50 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA28039 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 16:56:49 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA07857 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 16:56:15 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 4 May 1997 16:55:09 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: coler document Sent: Sat, May 3, 1997 4:51 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 4:55 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 17:49:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA29599 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 17:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 17:49:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sun May 4 17:49:23 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA29554 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 17:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA07954 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 17:48:17 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 4 May 1997 17:47:54 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Free Energy receiver Sent: Sat, May 3, 1997 5:19 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 5:47 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 18:28:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA05611; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:21:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 18:21:05 -0700 Message-Id: <336D0038.73A8@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 14:31:36 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electromechanical Overunity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"g9V6R2.0.bN1.0OJRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2951 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Epitaxy and all, Epitaxy wrote > I would prefer if the tunning fork was moving ferromagnetic cores in and > out of air core coils, thus changing the parameter [L} inductance instead > of changing the capacitance by moving the plates of the capacitor. This > would be much easier to analyze and easier to build. HV capacitors with > movable plates are a pain to work with and would depend on the humidity of > air if not sealed. Movable ferrite core seems much better to me. in reference to my electromechanical overunity device based on nonreciprocal principles. Epitaxy, I'm fully aware of the cumbersome nature of plate capacitors and was describing a thought experiment, not a working model. I have several designs which would be more efficient and not as difficult to get working. According to the papers on reciprocity I've been reading, for the device to be nonreciprocal the input must be electromagnetic and the output must be electric (non-magnetic). According to the articles, which I'm still studying, if an electric and a magnetic transducer are mechanically coupled the device works like a sort of gyrator, converting a magnetic field storage into electric field storage through the coupling. In any set of self-consistent electrical analogies, one transducer will be seen as reciprocal and the other as anti-reciprocal. It was proven that a combination of an antireciprocal and a reciprocal element could be NONreciprocal, that is...a one-way system. I am not claiming that these systems are overunity; they are normal, lossy electromechanical systems in that respect. Their uniqueness comes because changing the output loading doesn't change the state of the inputs. I believe that if the nonreciprocal idea is combined with the principle of resonance an overunity electromechanical machine can be built. I have come up with several designs but the one that would be likely to have the highest overunity performance is this: AN OVERUNITY ELECTROSTATIC PARAMETRIC GENERATOR This device borrows from the prior art of parametric electrostatic generators. These generators usually consist of thin capacitor plates with a rotating dielectric wedge or shield between them. As the dielectric rotates in and out of the plates the capacitance varies which parametrically creates a current in the resonant circuit. How does loading occur in this machine? The energy needed to pull the dielectric out from between the two plates is the same as the attractive energy of the same plates on the other side. This is by the definition of electric force as a conservative force, like magnetism. So there can be no loading of such a machine over a full rotation because of electrostatic induction. At the same time the parametric current generated at 1/2 F in the output circuit imposes a varying voltage on the plates as they rotate, but this sine voltage simply adds and subtracts equally from the momentum of the rotating disc. It can be seen that there is no loading of the motor in these rotational parametric generators. All the loading arises from friction, windage, etc. One would expect that the motor would operate in a no-load condition if the rotating dielectric sector was made thin, light and strong, and the device was operated in a vacuum (which is desirable because of the high voltages possible). The motor would be the the type used in gyros (permanent magnet?) that runs in resonance off-load (In addition I'd add a tuned circuit to the motor so that it has a high Q). I would also put in a second independent half-circular set of capacitor plates situated below the first ones so that the dielectric sector travels through both capacitors alternately. This makes sure that parametric currents in the two separate circuits are 180 degrees out of phase so that their effects on the shaft loading cancel. With proper design this machine would operate at efficiencies over 10000 percent. I believe that the Hyde Generator was tying to do something like this but got mixed up trying to work with both parametric and E/S inductive processes. It is certainly possible to combine both process but not in the same rotor at the same time, Hence the irregular output of the Hyde generator (assuming it worked at all). The nonreciprocal nature of the relationship between electric field properties and magnetic field properties allows for the generation of energy from nothing. :^) just being provocative... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 18:29:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA04842 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 18:29:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 18:29:09 1997 Received: from dub-img-10.compuserve.com (dub-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.206.140]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA04535 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id VAA02562; Sun, 4 May 1997 21:28:06 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 21:24:36 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970505012435_515664.456256_JHR35-44@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 16 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Electromechanical Overunity Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-9.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id VAA12005; Sun, 4 May 1997 21:23:50 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA05611; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:21:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 18:21:05 -0700 Message-Id: <336D0038.73A8@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 14:31:36 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electromechanical Overunity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"g9V6R2.0.bN1.0OJRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2951 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello Epitaxy and all, Epitaxy wrote > I would prefer if the tunning fork was moving ferromagnetic cores in and > out of air core coils, thus changing the parameter [L} inductance instead > of changing the capacitance by moving the plates of the capacitor. This > would be much easier to analyze and easier to build. HV capacitors with > movable plates are a pain to work with and would depend on the humidity of > air if not sealed. Movable ferrite core seems much better to me. in reference to my electromechanical overunity device based on nonreciprocal principles. Epitaxy, I'm fully aware of the cumbersome nature of plate capacitors and was describing a thought experiment, not a working model. I have several designs which would be more efficient and not as difficult to get working. According to the papers on reciprocity I've been reading, for the device to be nonreciprocal the input must be electromagnetic and the output must be electric (non-magnetic). According to the articles, which I'm still studying, if an electric and a magnetic transducer are mechanically coupled the device works like a sort of gyrator, converting a magnetic field storage into electric field storage through the coupling. In any set of self-consistent electrical analogies, one transducer will be seen as reciprocal and the other as anti-reciprocal. It was proven that a combination of an antireciprocal and a reciprocal element could be NONreciprocal, that is...a one-way system. I am not claiming that these systems are overunity; they are normal, lossy electromechanical systems in that respect. Their uniqueness comes because changing the output loading doesn't change the state of the inputs. I believe that if the nonreciprocal idea is combined with the principle of resonance an overunity electromechanical machine can be built. I have come up with several designs but the one that would be likely to have the highest overunity performance is this: AN OVERUNITY ELECTROSTATIC PARAMETRIC GENERATOR This device borrows from the prior art of parametric electrostatic generators. These generators usually consist of thin capacitor plates with a rotating dielectric wedge or shield between them. As the dielectric rotates in and out of the plates the capacitance varies which parametrically creates a current in the resonant circuit. How does loading occur in this machine? The energy needed to pull the dielectric out from between the two plates is the same as the attractive energy of the same plates on the other side. This is by the definition of electric force as a conservative force, like magnetism. So there can be no loading of such a machine over a full rotation because of electrostatic induction. At the same time the parametric current generated at 1/2 F in the output circuit imposes a varying voltage on the plates as they rotate, but this sine voltage simply adds and subtracts equally from the momentum of the rotating disc. It can be seen that there is no loading of the motor in these rotational parametric generators. All the loading arises from friction, windage, etc. One would expect that the motor would operate in a no-load condition if the rotating dielectric sector was made thin, light and strong, and the device was operated in a vacuum (which is desirable because of the high voltages possible). The motor would be the the type used in gyros (permanent magnet?) that runs in resonance off-load (In addition I'd add a tuned circuit to the motor so that it has a high Q). I would also put in a second independent half-circular set of capacitor plates situated below the first ones so that the dielectric sector travels through both capacitors alternately. This makes sure that parametric currents in the two separate circuits are 180 degrees out of phase so that their effects on the shaft loading cancel. With proper design this machine would operate at efficiencies over 10000 percent. I believe that the Hyde Generator was tying to do something like this but got mixed up trying to work with both parametric and E/S inductive processes. It is certainly possible to combine both process but not in the same rotor at the same time, Hence the irregular output of the Hyde generator (assuming it worked at all). The nonreciprocal nature of the relationship between electric field properties and magnetic field properties allows for the generation of energy from nothing. :^) just being provocative... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 18:32:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA03916; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 18:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336D01AB.49EE@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 14:37:48 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Toroid with center wire Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DuhTG1.0.4z.ETJRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2952 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi folks! On May 7 Scott little wrote: > Horace, here's the ultimate xfmr example: Consider a perfect toroid (Greg > will remember this) with a uniform sheet of AC current flowing around in the > usual direction that toroidal windings are applied. This geometry creates > an AC B field in the interior of the toroid but, due to perfect > cancellations, the B is identically zero everywhere outside the toroid. Now > pass a turn of heavy wire through the center hole in the toroid and connect > the free ends making a loop...POW! a big fat spark occurs as the wires touch > and a LARGE AC current flows. (Try this yourself using the toroidal core > from a Variac...it WORKS). Scott, interesting you should use this as an example because it would not be a standard transformer, even if there were an H field outside the toroid. The magnetic field of the central wire when the large current flows is at right angles to the field through the toroid. There would be a change in the permeability of the toroid as the momentary current flowed, but for the most part this is an example of the one-way interactions I've been talking about in my other posts. It would be interesting to see what effects the secondary current has on the primary in your example. This reminds me of some experiments that I think Alexander Frolov was doing with open circuited transformers. It was pretty interesting stuff but I can't remember it too well. Alexander, are you out there? Fred Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 18:35:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA07815 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:34:59 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 18:34:59 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 18:34:56 1997 Received: from arl-img-2.compuserve.com (arl-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.217.132]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA07602 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:34:54 -0700 Received: by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id VAA08447; Sun, 4 May 1997 21:34:24 -0400 Old-Date: 04 May 97 21:26:57 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970505012656_515664.456256_IHH52-15@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 18 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Toroid with center wire Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id VAA14342; Sun, 4 May 1997 21:28:40 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA03916; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 18:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336D01AB.49EE@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 14:37:48 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Toroid with center wire Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DuhTG1.0.4z.ETJRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2952 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi folks! On May 7 Scott little wrote: > Horace, here's the ultimate xfmr example: Consider a perfect toroid (Greg > will remember this) with a uniform sheet of AC current flowing around in the > usual direction that toroidal windings are applied. This geometry creates > an AC B field in the interior of the toroid but, due to perfect > cancellations, the B is identically zero everywhere outside the toroid. Now > pass a turn of heavy wire through the center hole in the toroid and connect > the free ends making a loop...POW! a big fat spark occurs as the wires touch > and a LARGE AC current flows. (Try this yourself using the toroidal core > from a Variac...it WORKS). Scott, interesting you should use this as an example because it would not be a standard transformer, even if there were an H field outside the toroid. The magnetic field of the central wire when the large current flows is at right angles to the field through the toroid. There would be a change in the permeability of the toroid as the momentary current flowed, but for the most part this is an example of the one-way interactions I've been talking about in my other posts. It would be interesting to see what effects the secondary current has on the primary in your example. This reminds me of some experiments that I think Alexander Frolov was doing with open circuited transformers. It was pretty interesting stuff but I can't remember it too well. Alexander, are you out there? Fred Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 18:47:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA08826 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:46:58 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 18:46:58 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sun May 4 18:46:56 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA08778 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:46:51 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA08028 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:46:19 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 4 May 1997 18:45:36 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #157 Sent: Sat, May 3, 1997 6:45 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 6:45 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. <<<<<< Attached TEXT file named "Re- freenrg-digest Digest V97 #" follows >>>>>> get me off the list1At 06:28 PM 5/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >freenrg-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 157 > >Today's Topics: > Simple OU Device > Simple Ou Device > Re: Simple OU Device effects > Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! > Re: Looking for meter > Re: permanent? magnets > Re: Simple OU Device effects > The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated > Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? > Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? > Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? > Re: Simple OU Device effects > Re: Simple OU Device effects > Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info > Re: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info > Re: Simple OU Device effects > Re: Simple OU Device effects > Strange pattern on a glass-window > Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! > coler document > Simple OU Device > Free Energy receiver > Re: coler document > This is what we are building ! > Re: coler document > Re: Free Energy receiver > Re: Simple OU Device > LIGHTNING >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 10:24:05 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, > freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Simple OU Device >Message-ID: <336A8CAD.2EC@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >HI All, > >Thanks for all the feedback. I vaule it all. > >Here is my test setup and the results I get with my linear unit. > > >Test Setup: >=========== > >The test setup is composed of 4 sections, all joined end to end and made >as level as possible. The release is on the right side and the exit is >on the left. The sections are composed of 12mm alum "U" channel upon >which a 12mm steel boll rolls from right to left. > > ......Exit......Black Box.......Entry.......Release > >1) Release section: > This is a 100mm section of alum 12mm alum "U" channel attached to the >entry track. The release section is bent up at approx 5 deg. A small >notch has been filed up the ramp as a index to assist the ball being >released every time at the same position. The notch position was >determined with the "Black Box" section removed and varying the release >point to get the ball to just roll to the end of the 1mtr entry track >without dropping over the end. This I assumed gave me as close as zero >ball energy at the entry point of the "Black Box" as possible. > >2) Entry section: > This is a 1mtr long section of 12mm alum "U" channel as level as I can >make it. > >3) Black Box Section: > This unit contains magnets and more of the 12mm alum "U" channel. The >entry and exit track are at the same level. The ball is pulled up the >ramp by a graduated B field. > >4) Exit section: > This is a 1mtr long sectin of 12mm alum "U" channel as level as I can >make it. > >All sections are level and at the same height. > > >Test Results: >============= > >The steel ball is placed on the "calibrated" release notch and released. > >It roll down the release ramp and onto the entry track. > >As it rolls along the entry track, the ball starts to slow. > >Then it gets to with-in 75-100mm from the end of the entry track or from >the start of the "Black Box" section. the ball starts rolling at a >constant speed and slightly accelerates as it crosses over into the >"Black Box" section. > >It leaves the "Black Box" section showing some slight drag back with-in >the first 25-50mm and then happily rolls off the end of the 1 mtr exit >track. > > >Further Testing: >================ > >I have constructed a working three ramp unit to investigate the change >in "Black Box" input alterations due to the influence of the exit >field. The testing here was to investigate the problems in attempting >to close the loop. I could not get two units oriented at right angles >to work due to the complexs interactions of the exit and entry fields. >My idea here was to use 4 units set a right angles to each other to form >a square and thus close the loop. The three unit linear model does >work. > > >Conclusions on the Linear Unit: >=============================== > >A real energy gain is shown as well as the ability to move a mass. The >energy gain seems to be around 20-30%. Closing the loop with such a >model seems difficult as the frictional losses in returning the ball to >the enrty point would be large. > > >Rotary Unit: >============ > >My current work is centered on a rotary unit, quite different to the >above. > > >Long Term Intentions: >===================== > >I do not intend to manuf a thing. A license to use the technology will >be available to any one who wishes to use it at a VERY LOW COST. My >current thinking is around $100 upfront and $1 / 1kw generation capacity >per unit on a decreasing sliding scale. I believe if the technology is >available cheaply enough, its simpler and less costly in the long run to >license it than steal it. > >As to getting rich, if my shareholders do, so will I. > > >References: >=========== > >US Patent 4,215,330 issued 29 July, 1980. Check it out. > > >Test Group: >=========== > >This patent was posted to the 9 members of my test group. While is is >not my device, is is close and an understanding of the patent would be >of benefit. To my knowledge, 4 members have constructed actual units. >I included in the group several critics to help keep us all honest. > >, >, >, *Constructed* >, *Constructed* >, *Constructed* >, *Constructed* >, *Working on a unit* >, >, >, *Constructed* > > >The group was formed to reduce list traffic and help to keep discussions >in control. If you wish to jon the group and be involved in actual >construction and discussions please let me know. > >I should point out that the guys at Earth Tech are willing to test a >"closed loop unit" unit at no charge. I have accepted. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > 61 18 833 461 Mobile >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 11:11:17 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, > freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Simple Ou Device >Message-ID: <336A97BD.11AE@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Hi All, > >Here is the link to the Patent 4,215,330 : > >Right click on each image/page to save it to disk and then use any gif >viewer to view or print it. > >This is not my device, but is close enough for you to build if you want >to have a go and experiment. It does work. > >http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4215330 > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > 61 18 833 461 Mobile >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 18:52:47 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502185246.00a5e1b4@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Yes, I agree magnets do work (just like springs)... I don't think anybody >with a little logic could disagree with this. > > >The work done by the magnet is simply the amount of force exercised by the >magnet over the distance which this force acts on something. > >If [W] denotes work, [F] force, [m] mass, [a] acceleration, [v] velocity, >[d] distance traveled > >...according to the basic formula [W=fd] meaning that if a magnets attract >ANY mass with a force of 1 Newton over the distance of 1 meter than the >work done by/against the magnet will equal to 1 Joule. > >NOTE: that it doesn't matter if the attracted mass is 1 gram or 1 ton, the >amount of work the magnet does to attract it for over 1 meter is 1 Joule, >IN BOTH CASES ! > >You can express the work [W] done by the magnet in variety of other ways, >for example [W=mad] meaning a certain mass [m] accelerating at a certain >rate [a] for a certain distance [d] denotes certain work done by the magnet > >... or [W=0.5mv^2] meaning that a magnet attracting certain mass [m] will >accelerate it to a certain velocity [v] and the expression [0.5mv^2] will >represent the amount of work [W] the magnet has done. > > >The issue whether any work has to be done AGAINST the magnet before any >work is done BY the magnet, is a completely different issue and very >dependent on how large the "box" is. > > > > >At 10:21 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>This started out as a preliminary stab at the effects of using Greg's >>magnetic ramp as an energy source. But it ends up skirting the issue, and >>becomes sort of a way of conventionally explaining what's going on, in real >>shallow terms :-). >> >>First, magnets have been doing work ever since we started using them. When >>you put a magnet up on the refrigerator, it does work as it pulls your hand >>with it toward the metal. You do an equivalent amount of work when you >>un-stick it later, but the magnet still did work. The magnet's work was >>balanced by your work. >> >>Gravity also does work, no? When you climb up a flight of stairs, you do >>lots of work to counter gravity. If you fall back down, gravity has done >>work. The system is balanced (even if you are not). >> >>In a permanent-magnet motor, the magnets are doing work. It is balanced by >>the work of the electromagnets, using electricity as their energy source. >> >>Permanent magnets are in wide use, and they are doing work. It's just that >>their work is usually balanced by energies that we provide. >> >>Greg's ramp is using one form of energy (gravitational) that we usually >>have to balance with our own energy, to offset another form of energy >>(magnetic) that we also usually have to balance with our own efforts. No >>big deal, right? >> >>Does anyone ever wonder whether we're depleting the Earth's gravitational >>energy when we fall down? >> >>In the same way, we've never stopped to wonder what the *efffects* of using >>magnets may be. Greg's asking a good question that maybe should be answered >>for our current, "conventional" widespread use of magnets. >> >> >>Dan >> >> >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:05:39 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502190537.00a5e1b4@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >...and the sum of earth's angular momentum + the heat radiated into space >after we slowed down the earth a little with our infernal device, should be >equal to the earth's angular momentum before we starting to perform our >evil deed. > >...I don't understand why any one of you would like to limit the >conservation of energy "generalization" ONLY to the mechanical angular >momentum. Electrical energy or EM radiation like heat are as "good" forms >of energy as mechanical momentum. > >If these energies could, they would sue you for unfair discrimination >(anthropomorphically speaking...) > >P.S. > >I remember reading somewhere that the earth's rotation rate is altered by >man-made water reservoirs. (ballerina effect) > >At 10:36 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>Larry Wharton wrote: >>> No such invention can possibly work because of conservation of angular >>> momentum. If the Earth's rotation slows down then the angular momentum >>> would decrease and that is not allowed. Only if angular momentum is >>> exchanged with some third body orbiting the Earth, like the Moon, such that >>> the total is constant could this idea work. Through the years there have >>> been many schemes like this proposed and they all don't involve the Moon >>> and they all don't work. >> >>The moon has nothing to do with this particular invention. >>I will dig out some info about this device and post a >>description. >> >>For sure, angular momentum must be conserved in a closed system. >>But the earth-moon is not a closed system. In fact, given >>an ample amount of time, the only truly closed system is >>the entire universe -- maybe not even that. >> >>In this particular invention, angular momentum is transferred >>from the body of the earth, to an electro-magnetic field and/or >>mechanical device which can do useful work on or near the earth's >>surface, and then to waste heat at the surface and in the >>atmosphere, and eventually radiated into space. >> >>Regards, >>Robert Stirniman >> >> >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:49:11 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Looking for meter >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502194910.00a69d00@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Tucker Surplus gas some 6 digit desktop DMM with 10uA DC range. I gave >seen other equipment in other catalogs but don't want to go and search >through stack of ne right now. If you are still unsuccessful in finding >what you need, I'll browse. Let me know > >At 12:43 PM 5/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >>I am trying to locate a reasonably priced meter to measure very low >>currents (in nA) and voltages (uV). The best I've located so far is The >>TENMA AC Millivolt Meter ($175 from MCM Electronics, cat #72-450). It has >>the disadvantage of being AC voltage only and analog, but goes down to a >>0-300 uV range, and has amplified output for an oscilloscope. >> >>Regards, >> >>Horace Heffner >> >> >> >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 19:53:41 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: permanent? magnets >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502195339.00a6bdfc@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Yes, a permanent magnet not subjected to H fields above the B/H curve >demagnetization knee, or curie temperature or critical G shock, will last >forever. > > >At 05:53 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >>I don't have any references, but I know the standard theory is, and my >>experience has been, so long as you do not introduce reverse fields large >>enough to actually start to demagnetize a magnet, a "good" magnet is not in >>any measurable way effected by use. ie you can use it in reversible field >>configurations indefinitely without in any way "consuming" its energy. Does >>anyone else have any other opinions? >> >> >> >> Keasy >> >> >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 21:54:16 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502215412.00a68180@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I disagree. If you look at Greg's description below, the inclined release >track is there ONLY to overcome the frictional losses of the entry track. >Greg clearly states "zero ball energy at the entry point...", also the >statement "... with the Black Box section removed..." is significant. > >In Greg's device the ball does NOT suffer repulsion as it enters the >BlackBox, on the contrary, the ball is always attracted to the entry point. > >The reason for the calibrated release track is simple. If the release >track was not used and the ball was far away from the Black Box on the >level entry track only, the magnetic attraction would not be strong enough >to get the ball moving from such a distance. Please remember that static >friction is greater than dynamic (moving) friction. By using the inclined >release track Greg overcomes the starting friction and is able to measure >the work [W=Fd] over a large distance even if the distance [d] is is large >and [F] to small to get the ball rolling. > >Please remember that if the Black Box was absent, the system of the release >and exit track would impart exactly ZERO kinetic energy to the ball at the >entry point (end of the entry track) > >The dilution of the back attraction force over a large distance is what >worries me, and I dare to state that this is the only possible flaw in >Greg's analysis. (back-attraction force integrated over exit distance). > >All of the other objections that people have been voicing (ie. >demagnetization of the magnets, input energy, eddy currents, etc..) are >silly, insignificant and could be all avoided if they took the time to >understand what Greg is writing. > >Permanent magnets do not get demagnetized by performing work in the form of >ferrite attraction. Demagnetization and magnet breakdown only happens if >you push them to hard (ie. excessive H field from a coil or another >stronger magnet, mechanical shock over critical G and thermal curie point). >Almost everything can be destroyed if you push it to hard, it doesn't mean >that it gets used up otherwise... > > > > > >At 11:34 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >>One thing that bothers me is that Greg says the release track is ramped >>at about 5 deg - so this rig DOES have an input energy > >At 10:24 AM 5/3/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >>>...with the "Black Box" section removed and varying the release >>>point to get the ball to just roll to the end of the 1mtr entry track >>>without dropping over the end. This I assumed gave me as close as zero >>>ball energy at the entry point of the "Black Box" as possible. >Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:11:40 -0800 >From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated >Message-Id: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: > >http://www.padrak.com/ine/ > >Most New Data Files are at: > >http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT > >------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ >Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions >------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ > >May 3, 1997 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 4, No. 12, April 1997 > So You Want To Be Involved In New Energy? > Calibration For Cold Fusion > Cold Fusion Bibliography Updated! > NASA Preparing For The Future > Gravitation Shielding Possible > The Nature Of The Aether > World Energy Report > Letter From Hal Puthoff (On SHARP Drive) > Added: Proceedings of The 1996 International Conference On > New Ideas In Natural Sciences (Forward, > Conclusions, and Videotapes Available) > Updated: Fabulous Facts File, > Websites, People, Organizations, etc. > Site Counter = 98,515 > >Dr. Patrick G. Bailey >President, Institute for New Energy >http://www.padrak.com/ine/ >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:24:30 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell >Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502222428.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I agree to the paragraph below. > >Does Greg disagree ? > >At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>But in the case of an RLC in series >>with a constant current power supply the supply voltage will have to >>increase in order for the current to remain constant as the voltage >>across the inductor increases trying to reduce the current such that the >>energy remains the same in the inductor, thus energy in the inductor >>will increase as L increases because the current has NOT changed >>(assuming the P/S has done its job) - and this extra energy has come >>from the power supply. >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:31:45 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell >Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223143.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I agree. The voltage across the coil must increase and be positive to keep >the coil current constant. That is what constant-current P/S does. If >this P/S wasn't doing its job than the I would decrease as the L increased. > >The more interesting question is whether the work [W=Fd] done by the >inductor when attracting the ferrite is done at the expense of stored >electrical energy [0.5LI^2] ????????????? > >No conservation of energy arguments allowed here ! :-) > >At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>The point of contention has to do with the SIGN of the voltage across >>the coil. The maths say it is positive. Greg Watson says it is negative >>- but he has not responded to that point. >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:34:22 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Maxwell >Subject: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223421.00a743f8@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Err.. I have a problem with: "...due to a positive voltage induced across >the L..." > >Please rephrase and elaborate. >... > >At 07:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >>In the case of a constant-voltage P/S in series with the RLC there would >>be no voltage change across the P/S but the current in R would drop due >>to a positive voltage induced across the L. >> >> >>L R >>////--0------<><><><>----------0 `````````` >>//// ^ | | >>//// | dL/dt V | P/S | >>////--0------------------------0 |......... >> >>--- >>Maxwell >> >> >> >Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 22:37:50 -0700 >From: Epitaxy >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "Francis J. Stenger" >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502223748.00a7d2e4@mail.localaccess.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. > >At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >>OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >>doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >>friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >>reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >>approach. >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 15:29:31 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-ID: <336AD443.2938@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Epitaxy wrote: >> >> Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >> centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >> pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. > >I agree, even though I haven't seen the referenced post. > >> At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >> > >> >OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >> >doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >> >friction to a mimimum > >Wouldn't work. > >>> - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >> >reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >> >approach. > >Hi Guys, > >Seems I haven't received the post you refer to, anyhow the reason I use >a alum "U" channel for the ball to roll on is the requirement for the >ball to be in a balanced magnetic state if reference to the side to side >magnetic attraction forces exerted by the two side magnet assy. The >alum channel allows for some unbalanced sideways magnetic forces to >exist. To be pulled side ways off the track requires the ball to be >pulled up and over the side of the alum track. > >I tried tubing but found this allows side ways slop and greatly reduces >the graduated mag ramp forces. For max pull into the graduated field, >side to side magnetic influences must be reduced to less than 5%. > >The alum channel didn't just happen. it was the best of several methods, >considering the job it has to do. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:31:33 PST >From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) >To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com >Cc: vortext-L@eskimo.com >Subject: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info >Message-ID: <19970220.233139.11894.0.tv@juno.com> > >I posted a Web page about the invention of Wesley Gary and his magnet >motor >including the missing diagrams that several of you wanted but I could not >attach >to email for some reason involving my mail server. > >The URL of the "Gary Effect" page is: > >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810 > >Tim >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 01:37:30 -0700 >From: Jerry Decker >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Gary Magnet Motor Pix and Info >Message-ID: <336AF94A.7157@keelynet.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Hi Tim! > >Excellent! Thanks, will add the URL.... >-- > Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 00:10:49 -0800 >From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-Id: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >At 10:37 PM 5/2/97, Epitaxy wrote: >>Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >>centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >>pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. > >A pendulum like so is useful (B are bearings, rest is rigid): > > ------B------------B----- > \ / > \ / > \ / > \ / > \ / > \/ > xx > >> >>At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >>> >>>OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >>>doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >>>friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >>>reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >>>approach. > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 17:49:31 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device effects >Message-ID: <336AF513.24C9@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Horace Heffner wrote: >> >> At 10:37 PM 5/2/97, Epitaxy wrote: >> >Yup, the pendulum presents an engineering problem, with keeping the ferrite >> >centered exactly between the track magnets. The long pendulums arm and >> >pivot is just not able to withstand the side-to-side forces. >> >> A pendulum like so is useful (B are bearings, rest is rigid): >> >> ------B------------B----- >> \ / >> \ / >> \ / >> \ / >> \ / >> \/ >> xx >> >> > >> >At 01:23 AM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >> >>OK, I see I still don't understand the details of his rig. If I were >> >>doing this type of experiment, I would use a pendulum rig to reduce >> >>friction to a mimimum - but that's old news and Greg probably has good >> >>reasons for these track models. It just seems a rather high-friction >> >>approach. >> >> Regards, >> >> Horace Heffner > >Hi Guys, > >Nice pendulum idea Horace. Sorry, but I can't use it. Will file it for >future reference. > >Check out the patent below to get a idea of what is happening in the >"Black Box" : > >http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4215330 > >Just click on the link, it will load the first page of the patent. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 06:40:37 -0700 >From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Strange pattern on a glass-window >Message-Id: <199705031340.GAA15335@mx1.eskimo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I have updated my WEB-pages with some pictures showing strange >pattern on a glass-window that appears when they are misty... >Kind of reminds me about the David Hammel story. >exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! >mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se >http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:30:43 -0400 (EDT) >From: Keasy@aol.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Aaaa... don't slow down Earth ! >Message-ID: <970503113042_-1031323492@emout07.mail.aol.com> > >Regarding this "don't slow down the earth!" issue everyone knows the rotation >rate of the earth (earth-moon system, actually) is constantly slowing down >because of tidal effects --- a very small change, however. An interesting >calculation shows what will eventually happen. Results are posted at >http://members.aol.com/Keasy and follow the earth/moon link. >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:36:05 -0700 >From: "WESLY" >To: >Subject: coler document >Message-Id: <199705031807.LAA09874@claim.goldrush.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >TO ALL: Can anyone tell me where I can get the original HANS COLER DOCUMENT >in GERMAN? >THANKS WES >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 14:26:32 -0400 (EDT) >From: Keasy@aol.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Simple OU Device >Message-ID: <970503142631_-1299795460@emout07.mail.aol.com> > >To all, > This is in response to Greg's posting of his set up and testing with his >linear unit. > Several questions/comments/suggestions: > 1. How is it determined that the exit section is the same level as the >entry section? This is of course critical. > 2. If the magnets in the "black box" are in a configuration such that >the magnetic circuit can be closed to minimize effects outside the "black >box" volume that might be useful to consider. > 3. What happens if you add a release ramp (properly set up as in #1) on >the left of the exit ramp and did the experiment WITH THE BLACK BOX REVERSED, >from left to right? If you do this and get the same results as from right to >left (without touching anything else) but turning the "black box" around, >then things are much more interesting. If, in addition, you measure the >fields at the entry point and end of exit ramp and they are on the same order >(in any direction) as the earth's magnetic field, then it does become >difficult to understand why it is not OU. > There are undoubtedly other useful approaches to understanding this OU >device better but these come to mind. > > Ken Keasy@aol.com >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:55:42 +0200 >From: Bushi@multinet.net.il (Lev Robert) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Free Energy receiver >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi All >Why should you work so hard in order to obtain free energy when there are >devices like the Radiant Energy. I read about it some time ago in the Tesla >page. There is a patent on this too from 1901 "Utilization of Radiant >Energy. Since the group is now fairly mature in coil design and since this >kind of energy generation has no moving parts perhaps the has arived to give >it a try. >Robert >BUSHILEV >Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:06:07 PST >From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: coler document >Message-ID: <19970221.140924.9558.0.tv@juno.com> > >The Hans Coler document was never written in German it was a British >intelligence report, part of Project Paper Clip. Some of the document >that it quotes however were originally in German and were translated by >British Intellignence. You could inquire with the British Government >archives whatever it is called. > >Tim > >On Sat, 3 May 1997 11:36:05 -0700 "WESLY" writes: >>TO ALL: Can anyone tell me where I can get the original HANS COLER >>DOCUMENT >>in GERMAN? >>THANKS WES >> >> >Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:07:15 +0200 >From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) >To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Cc: newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: This is what we are building ! >Message-Id: <199705032207.AAA03491@mail.bbtt.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi to all, > >cause I am pretty busy with other things I did not have much time >to post recently on the free-energy lists. > >But I wanted to keep you all updated, what we are currently building: > >It is a flux switch unit. Today we ordered the plastic revolver >chamber to hold the iron core material. Have a look at this picture. > >It was drawn by Dieter Bauer and he is the one, who pushes it foward. >Here is the URL for the picture: > >http://www.overunity.de/ecklin/fig15.gif > >It should be a 3 dimensional side view... > >I hope you can imagine how it works... > >We hope, that in about 1 month we can have the first measurement results... > > >Please also check out: > >http://www.overunity.de/ecklin/ecklin3.htm > >Best regards, Stefan. > >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service >Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: >www.detours.com www.overunity.com www.berlin-city.com >www.nylon-fetish.com >email: harti@harti.com >Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 16:50:26 -0700 (PDT) >From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: coler document >Message-Id: <199705032350.QAA13321@mx2.eskimo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>The Hans Coler document was never written in German it was a British >>intelligence report, part of Project Paper Clip. Some of the document >>that it quotes however were originally in German and were translated by >>British Intellignence. You could inquire with the British Government >>archives whatever it is called. > >I have a copy of the Hans Coler report from the British Imperial War >museum in London. Its on my WEB-pages found thru my signature-file below. >exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! >mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se >http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm >Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 09:48:14 >From: Geoff Egel >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Free Energy receiver >Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970504094814.2b7f9cc6@main.murray.net.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >At 09:55 PM 5/3/97 +0200, you wrote: >>Hi All >>Why should you work so hard in order to obtain free energy when there are >>devices like the Radiant Energy. I read about it some time ago in the Tesla >>page. There is a patent on this too from 1901 "Utilization of Radiant >>Energy. Since the group is now fairly mature in coil design and since this >>kind of energy generation has no moving parts perhaps the has arived to give >>it a try. >>Robert >>BUSHILEV >> >> >>Correct me if I am wrong > >But I believe Tesla never actually constructed this device but only >imagined it. >Note that this is not problem most of his inventions he conceived this way >and then had them constructed by his engineers and he claimed they always >worked. > >Geoff Egel >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel >Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 10:02:03 +0930 >From: Greg Watson >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Simple OU Device >Message-ID: <336BD903.1294@microtronics.com.au> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Keasy@aol.com wrote: >> >> To all, >> This is in response to Greg's posting of his set up and testing with his >> linear unit. >> Several questions/comments/suggestions: >> 1. How is it determined that the exit section is the same level as the >> entry section? This is of course critical. > >By sighting along the "U" channels. Its not really critical. > >> 2. If the magnets in the "black box" are in a configuration such that >> the magnetic circuit can be closed to minimize effects outside the "black >> box" volume that might be useful to consider. > >Very difficult. > >> 3. What happens if you add a release ramp (properly set up as in #1) on >> the left of the exit ramp and did the experiment WITH THE BLACK BOX REVERSED, >> from left to right? If you do this and get the same results as from right to >> left (without touching anything else) but turning the "black box" around, >> then things are much more interesting. > >Hadn't thought of that. I have however taken it appart and put it >together many times in many different ways. Still works. > >> If, in addition, you measure the >> fields at the entry point and end of exit ramp and they are on the same order >> (in any direction) as the earth's magnetic field, then it does become >> difficult to understand why it is not OU. > >There are no real entry and exit points. > >> There are undoubtedly other useful approaches to understanding this OU >> device better but these come to mind. >> >> Ken Keasy@aol.com > >Hi Ken, > >Thanks for the input. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax >Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:18:10 -0400 >From: "O'Connor" >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: LIGHTNING >Message-ID: <336BE3CD.1503@bciu.k12.pa.us> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >I'm just wondering if anyone else out there is wondering why lightning >is not being harnessed for power usage. > >I am positively sure that we have enough technology to capture/harness >the energy...but we aren't using it in our homes ect yet... > >-Shannon > >======================== >= "Eschew Obfuscation" = >======================== > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 18:54:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA06158; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 18:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <336D3B0F.799B@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 11:12:39 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electromechanical Overunity References: <336D0038.73A8@mail.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4S34t2.0.8W1.PjJRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2953 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred B. Epps wrote: > > I am not claiming that these systems are overunity; they are normal, > lossy electromechanical systems in that respect. Their uniqueness comes > because changing the output loading doesn't change the state of the > inputs. Hi Fred, If loading on the output (drawing varying amounts of power) has NO effect on the input (doesn't change the loading on the energy source driving the input and the device in total), they you have broken the link between cause and effect and it's may be a way to OU. What examples of one way systems do you have in stock? -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 19:48:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA15858 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 19:48:03 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 19:48:03 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sun May 4 19:48:01 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA15817 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 19:47:58 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA08092 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 19:47:25 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 4 May 1997 19:47:03 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #158 Sent: Sat, May 3, 1997 7:17 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 7:47 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 20:18:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA14513 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 20:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 20:18:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Sun May 4 20:18:12 1997 Received: from orca.microtronics.com.au (root@orca.microtronics.com.au [203.30.55.1]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA14303; Sun, 4 May 1997 20:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppp.microtronics.com.au (ppp0g.microtronics.com.au [203.30.55.106]) by orca.microtronics.com.au (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA25254; Mon, 5 May 1997 12:45:17 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <336D4FE1.488D@microtronics.com.au> Old-Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 12:41:29 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple Ou Device Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1ED97BF77454" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1ED97BF77454 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I have attached the some data on the patent 4,215,330. Here is more data on my "Black Box". The length of the ramp is 250mm. The lift at the end is 30mm. There are two 300mm long side magnet assy. The ball rolls on 12mm wide, 12mm high, 10mm inside alum "U" channel. The ball is a 12mm dia chrome plated steel. Unlike the patent 4,215,330, my ball always is in contact with the track. I use multiple magnets, but not as the patent shows. My exit is very different. Its the exit where its all at. Side to side balancing of the magnetic forces is critical. The ball must always stay balanced or on the "Neutral Line" as Wesley Gray would say. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. 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Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970505041036_515664.456256_IHO59-16@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 16 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Electromechanical Overunity Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by hil-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA12592; Mon, 5 May 1997 00:09:40 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA26901; Sun, 4 May 1997 21:08:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 21:08:34 -0700 Message-Id: <336D27B6.6A1E@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 17:20:06 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electromechanical Overunity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bJzDi3.0.Ba6.1rLRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2954 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Greg and all, You said, > If loading on the output (drawing varying amounts of power) has NO > effect on the input (doesn't change the loading on the energy source > driving the input and the device in total), they you have broken the > link between cause and effect and it's may be a way to OU. > > What examples of one way systems do you have in stock? At this point, passive one-way systems consist of: 1) gyroscopes- high-efficiency because of use of low-friction bearings. 2) hall effect gyrators -low efficiency because of resistance in semiconductors. 3) microwave nonreciprocal phase-shifters- high efficiency because of high resonance of ferrites at their gyromagnetic frequency. 4) mechanical couplings of an electromagnetic and an electrostatic transducer- moderate efficiency because of losses in each transducer. "To grasp the fundamental significance of nonreciprocal passive fourpoles which we shall now discuss, let us start with an exemplifying stipulation that sounds at first like utter nonsense, or at least like a contradiction of terms, namely: Is it possible to have a passive unilateral "transformer" that (1) sees always the same input impedance irrespective of the load and (2) passes no energy in the reverse direction? Such a unidirectional or one-way device would eliminate all reaction from the secondary or load circuit into the primary circuit, would eliminate the need for isolating amplifiers (as for instance, cathode followers) and would permit a fundamental extension of passive circuit design heretofore reserved for active elements. Now, we are not concerned with wishful thinking here. Rather, we shall show later that such fourpoles can exist with certain anisotropic materials..." ("Essentials Of Dielectromagnetic Engineering", Schlicke) The anisotropic materials referred to here are ferrites. Interesting, huh? I would add to the list of nonreciprocal (NR) devices the magnetocapacitor that was the main component of the Hendershot device. I believe that the Hyde generator and the Testatika machine may use these principles as well. It has been proven by those who prove these things (the first two refs) that a one-way system must include either a static magnetic field or a mechanical coupling (such as the gyro or transducer combinations). At this point it's just an intuition, but I think that combining a resonant system such as a tank circuit or a smoothly rotating body with this type of device is what will make the whole thing work. I'll close with a quote from a book written before it was proven that NR systems could exist: "..If the reciprocity conditions are not satisfied, the mathematical description will imply sources and/or sinks of energy in the coupling field that can lead to nonphysical results." (Electromechanical Dynamics, Woodson) Refs: "Violation Of The Reciprocity Theorem In Linear Passive Electromechanical Systems" by Edwin McMillan, Jour. Acous. Soc. Am. (18), 344 (1946) "Coordinates And The Reciprocal Theorem In Electromechanical Systems" by John W. Miles, Jour. Acous. Soc. Am. (19), 910 (1947) "The Elements Of Nonreciprocal Microwave Devices" by C. Lester Hogan, Proc. IRE, p. 1345, Oct. 1956 "Electromechanical One-way Systems" by Hideya Gamo, J. Acous. Soc. Japan (10), 65 (1954) "Some Aspects Of Onsager's Theory Of Reciprocal Relations In Irreversible Processes" by H.B.G. Casimir, Nuovo Cimento Suppl. (6), 227 (1949) "Reciprocal Relations In Irreversible Processes I,II" by Lars Onsager, Phys. Rev. (37), 405 (1931), and (38), 2265 (1931) "Hall Effect Modulators And Gyrators" by W.P Mason, W.H. Hewitt, Jour. Appl. Phys. (24), 166 (1953) "A New Approach To The Dynamics Of Systems With Gyroscopic Coupling Terms" by A. Bloch, Phil. Mag., (7) 35, 305 (May 1944) "Electromechanical Dynamics, I" (p.77-79) by Herbert Woodson, John Wiley, 1968 "Essentials Of Dielectromagnetic Engineering" (p.202-215) by H. M. Schlicke, John Wiley, 1961 "Solid State Magnetic And Dielectric Devices" (p. 501-511) by H.W. Katz, John Wiley, 1959 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 21:17:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA26901; Sun, 4 May 1997 21:08:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 21:08:34 -0700 Message-Id: <336D27B6.6A1E@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 17:20:06 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electromechanical Overunity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bJzDi3.0.Ba6.1rLRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2954 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg and all, You said, > If loading on the output (drawing varying amounts of power) has NO > effect on the input (doesn't change the loading on the energy source > driving the input and the device in total), they you have broken the > link between cause and effect and it's may be a way to OU. > > What examples of one way systems do you have in stock? At this point, passive one-way systems consist of: 1) gyroscopes- high-efficiency because of use of low-friction bearings. 2) hall effect gyrators -low efficiency because of resistance in semiconductors. 3) microwave nonreciprocal phase-shifters- high efficiency because of high resonance of ferrites at their gyromagnetic frequency. 4) mechanical couplings of an electromagnetic and an electrostatic transducer- moderate efficiency because of losses in each transducer. "To grasp the fundamental significance of nonreciprocal passive fourpoles which we shall now discuss, let us start with an exemplifying stipulation that sounds at first like utter nonsense, or at least like a contradiction of terms, namely: Is it possible to have a passive unilateral "transformer" that (1) sees always the same input impedance irrespective of the load and (2) passes no energy in the reverse direction? Such a unidirectional or one-way device would eliminate all reaction from the secondary or load circuit into the primary circuit, would eliminate the need for isolating amplifiers (as for instance, cathode followers) and would permit a fundamental extension of passive circuit design heretofore reserved for active elements. Now, we are not concerned with wishful thinking here. Rather, we shall show later that such fourpoles can exist with certain anisotropic materials..." ("Essentials Of Dielectromagnetic Engineering", Schlicke) The anisotropic materials referred to here are ferrites. Interesting, huh? I would add to the list of nonreciprocal (NR) devices the magnetocapacitor that was the main component of the Hendershot device. I believe that the Hyde generator and the Testatika machine may use these principles as well. It has been proven by those who prove these things (the first two refs) that a one-way system must include either a static magnetic field or a mechanical coupling (such as the gyro or transducer combinations). At this point it's just an intuition, but I think that combining a resonant system such as a tank circuit or a smoothly rotating body with this type of device is what will make the whole thing work. I'll close with a quote from a book written before it was proven that NR systems could exist: "..If the reciprocity conditions are not satisfied, the mathematical description will imply sources and/or sinks of energy in the coupling field that can lead to nonphysical results." (Electromechanical Dynamics, Woodson) Refs: "Violation Of The Reciprocity Theorem In Linear Passive Electromechanical Systems" by Edwin McMillan, Jour. Acous. Soc. Am. (18), 344 (1946) "Coordinates And The Reciprocal Theorem In Electromechanical Systems" by John W. Miles, Jour. Acous. Soc. Am. (19), 910 (1947) "The Elements Of Nonreciprocal Microwave Devices" by C. Lester Hogan, Proc. IRE, p. 1345, Oct. 1956 "Electromechanical One-way Systems" by Hideya Gamo, J. Acous. Soc. Japan (10), 65 (1954) "Some Aspects Of Onsager's Theory Of Reciprocal Relations In Irreversible Processes" by H.B.G. Casimir, Nuovo Cimento Suppl. (6), 227 (1949) "Reciprocal Relations In Irreversible Processes I,II" by Lars Onsager, Phys. Rev. (37), 405 (1931), and (38), 2265 (1931) "Hall Effect Modulators And Gyrators" by W.P Mason, W.H. Hewitt, Jour. Appl. Phys. (24), 166 (1953) "A New Approach To The Dynamics Of Systems With Gyroscopic Coupling Terms" by A. Bloch, Phil. Mag., (7) 35, 305 (May 1944) "Electromechanical Dynamics, I" (p.77-79) by Herbert Woodson, John Wiley, 1968 "Essentials Of Dielectromagnetic Engineering" (p.202-215) by H. M. Schlicke, John Wiley, 1961 "Solid State Magnetic And Dielectric Devices" (p. 501-511) by H.W. Katz, John Wiley, 1959 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 22:23:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA02640 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 22:23:23 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:23:23 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 22:23:20 1997 Received: from arl-img-3.compuserve.com (arl-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.217.133]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA02429 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 22:23:19 -0700 Received: by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA06806; Mon, 5 May 1997 01:22:48 -0400 Old-Date: 05 May 97 01:16:29 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970505051628_515664.456256_JHN47-11@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 17 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Photocells, Peltier effect and applied fields Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by hil-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA02304; Mon, 5 May 1997 01:18:09 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA01751; Sun, 4 May 1997 22:17:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <336D37CF.6C77@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 18:28:48 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Photocells, Peltier effect and applied fields Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l0i9p3.0.GR.FrMRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2955 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Peter and all, Peter said > Has anyone experimented with Pielter effect devices or solar cells under > applied fields? There is work being done at the University of NSW on > boosting the output of solar cells by placement with an electrostatic field. > It is apparently not being discussed openly, but I know results are positive. This sounds like the gadget that Harold Aspden and a guy named Strachan patented a while back (don't have the #). It was a thermoelectric pile consisting of aluminum plates separated by dielectric layers. A small AC current flowed through the layers. Without the AC current the device was a very inefficient converter of heat into electricity, with the current the efficiency was around 80% as I remember. Someone might know more about this one... I have an article or two about it I can dig up if anyone's interested. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 22:28:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA01751; Sun, 4 May 1997 22:17:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <336D37CF.6C77@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 18:28:48 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Photocells, Peltier effect and applied fields Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l0i9p3.0.GR.FrMRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2955 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Peter and all, Peter said > Has anyone experimented with Pielter effect devices or solar cells under > applied fields? There is work being done at the University of NSW on > boosting the output of solar cells by placement with an electrostatic field. > It is apparently not being discussed openly, but I know results are positive. This sounds like the gadget that Harold Aspden and a guy named Strachan patented a while back (don't have the #). It was a thermoelectric pile consisting of aluminum plates separated by dielectric layers. A small AC current flowed through the layers. Without the AC current the device was a very inefficient converter of heat into electricity, with the current the efficiency was around 80% as I remember. Someone might know more about this one... I have an article or two about it I can dig up if anyone's interested. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 22:49:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA06126 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 22:49:49 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 22:49:49 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sun May 4 22:49:47 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA06095 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 22:49:46 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA08400 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 22:49:35 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 4 May 1997 22:49:23 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Maxwell: 0.5LI^2 or not ? Sent: Sat, May 3, 1997 10:35 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 10:49 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 23:07:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA03957; Sun, 4 May 1997 23:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336D428C.24B6@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 19:14:36 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: electric field around Homopolar motor. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BDk3N.0.lz.kWNRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2956 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, Horace, Frank, and all, In discussing how to measure the electric field around a rotating magnet, Frank said > The most you can do is try to detect the electric field - but the easy > way to do this is to probe the rim and the axis with sliding > contacts. There is a tiny electrostatic field around the magnet you > could try to detect - but I guess this would not convince anyone that > the field rotates. A "E" pickup capacitor on one end of a coax line > with the FET at a remote spot might work. Thought I'd bring this article to your attention. As far as I know, this is the most sensitive test so far performed on the moving vs. nonmoving lines controversy. Their conclusion: "we have searched in vain for such an effect and conclude that if the magnetic field lines are moved at all by the rotation of the magnet about its axis they are dragged with a coefficient less than 1.4 X 10-4". "Spinning Magnet's And Jehle's Model Of The Electron" by D.F. Bartlett, etc., Physical Review D (16), 12, p.3459 (15 Dec 1977) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 23:13:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA04660 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 23:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:13:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Sun May 4 23:13:35 1997 Received: from dub-img-9.compuserve.com (dub-img-9.compuserve.com [149.174.206.139]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA04471 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 23:13:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-9.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id CAA16769; Mon, 5 May 1997 02:12:35 -0400 Old-Date: 05 May 97 02:05:23 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970505060522_515664.456256_JHO38-35@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 17 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 electric field around Homopolar motor. Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-9.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id CAA15291; Mon, 5 May 1997 02:04:49 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA03957; Sun, 4 May 1997 23:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336D428C.24B6@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 19:14:36 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: electric field around Homopolar motor. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BDk3N.0.lz.kWNRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2956 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello, Horace, Frank, and all, In discussing how to measure the electric field around a rotating magnet, Frank said > The most you can do is try to detect the electric field - but the easy > way to do this is to probe the rim and the axis with sliding > contacts. There is a tiny electrostatic field around the magnet you > could try to detect - but I guess this would not convince anyone that > the field rotates. A "E" pickup capacitor on one end of a coax line > with the FET at a remote spot might work. Thought I'd bring this article to your attention. As far as I know, this is the most sensitive test so far performed on the moving vs. nonmoving lines controversy. Their conclusion: "we have searched in vain for such an effect and conclude that if the magnetic field lines are moved at all by the rotation of the magnet about its axis they are dragged with a coefficient less than 1.4 X 10-4". "Spinning Magnet's And Jehle's Model Of The Electron" by D.F. Bartlett, etc., Physical Review D (16), 12, p.3459 (15 Dec 1977) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 4 23:40:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA06282 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 4 May 1997 23:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:40:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Sun May 4 23:40:55 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA06251 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 23:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA08435 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 23:39:52 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 4 May 1997 23:39:13 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Positive Nrg Sent: Sat, May 3, 1997 11:21 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 11:39 PM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 00:17:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA13335; Mon, 5 May 1997 00:11:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:11:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970505164052.304fce44@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 16:40:52 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re:Wanted details on the Smith Coil or antenna ,bifilar coils In-Reply-To: <336D37CF.6C77@mail.halcyon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lcGud.0.HG3.vWORp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2957 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:28 PM 5/4/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi to all > >I am currently doing some experimental work with coils. I have heard of the canadian smith coil can some one please tell me how they were constructed and used and other additional info would be help. > >I also need construction details for cadacus coils I think that's how you spell it and any revelant info as well Ditto for bifiliar winding as well Thanking you in advance Geoff http:/www2.murray.net.au/users/egel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 00:18:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA14376 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 00:18:01 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:18:01 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon May 5 00:17:58 1997 Received: from hil-img-7.compuserve.com (hil-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.177.137]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA14167 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 00:17:57 -0700 Received: by hil-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id DAA18305; Mon, 5 May 1997 03:17:26 -0400 Old-Date: 05 May 97 03:11:14 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970505071113_515664.456256_JHL69-7@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 18 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re:Wanted details on the Smith Coil or antenna ,bifilar coils Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id DAA08005; Mon, 5 May 1997 03:12:38 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA13335; Mon, 5 May 1997 00:11:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 00:11:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970505164052.304fce44@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 16:40:52 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re:Wanted details on the Smith Coil or antenna ,bifilar coils In-Reply-To: <336D37CF.6C77@mail.halcyon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lcGud.0.HG3.vWORp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2957 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 06:28 PM 5/4/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi to all > >I am currently doing some experimental work with coils. I have heard of the canadian smith coil can some one please tell me how they were constructed and used and other additional info would be help. > >I also need construction details for cadacus coils I think that's how you spell it and any revelant info as well Ditto for bifiliar winding as well Thanking you in advance Geoff http:/www2.murray.net.au/users/egel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 03:03:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA25888 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 03:03:39 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 03:03:39 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Mon May 5 03:03:36 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id DAA25818 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 03:03:35 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA08725 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 03:03:02 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 5 May 1997 03:02:19 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Creepy attack on the Hall effect Sent: Sun, May 4, 1997 2:46 AM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 3:02 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 03:18:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA16740; Mon, 5 May 1997 03:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 03:13:53 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 06:11:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970505061140_1785639347@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: dansway@pacbell.net, jdecker@keelynet.com Subject: The David Hamel Scalar Generator Resent-Message-ID: <"Ub1hx1.0.J54.TBRRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2958 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Dan LaRochelle had recently visited David Hamel in Canada and he sent to me some interesting informations about the David Hamel Scalar Generator. You will find some schemes of this device at : http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/hamscgen.htm I hope that this information will interest you, Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 04:01:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA28636; Mon, 5 May 1997 03:49:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 03:49:50 -0700 Message-ID: <336DBB1B.3213@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 20:18:59 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple Ou Device Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------48E0555B187D" Resent-Message-ID: <"IPDwQ1.0.H_6.EjRRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2959 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------48E0555B187D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I have attached the data on the patent 4,215,330 for reference. Here is more data on my "Black Box". The length of the ramp is 250mm. The lift at the end is 30mm. There are two 300mm long side magnet assy. The ball rolls on 12mm wide, 12mm high, 10mm inside alum "U" channel. The ball is a 12mm dia chrome plated steel. Unlike the patent 4,215,330, my ball is always in contact with the track. I use multiple magnets, but not as the patent shows. My method of generation the graduated B field for the ramp and exit is very different. Its the exit where its all at. Side to side balancing of the magnetic forces is critical. The ball must always stay balanced or on the "Neutral Line" as Wesley Gray would say. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. 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k6yv0u6b4AkH9EhLrevt7npgCnNYdlZtaRs7LOIRk7jEJj4xitlbAAA7 --------------48E0555B187D-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 07:03:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA03198; Mon, 5 May 1997 06:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 06:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <336E106D.6DD4@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 09:53:01 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: poconnor@bciu.k12.pa.us CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LIGHTNING References: <970503111849_-97920586@emout11.mail.aol.com> <336BE3CD.1503@bciu.k12.pa.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jqQmB.0.nn.DQURp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2960 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: O'Connor wrote: > > I'm just wondering if anyone else out there is wondering why lightning > is not being harnessed for power usage. > > I am positively sure that we have enough technology to capture/harness > the energy...but we aren't using it in our homes ect yet... > > -Shannon I'm not quite as sure as you are on this. Exactly what types of conductors would you use to withstand the bolt? And then, how you you store the energy? What make and model capacitors could survive in this type of application? Once we had the charge collected (assuming the collector survived the strike, and some form of technology could store the energy) how would the energy be converted into a practical form? Some sort of AC inverters? What switching devices could possibly withstand the voltages found in a lightning bolt? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 07:10:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA04304; Mon, 5 May 1997 07:07:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 07:07:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <336E1372.60A2@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 10:05:54 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Creepy attack on the Hall effect References: <336C2568.3F2A@mail.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vGCzg.0.931.PcURp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2961 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred B. Epps wrote: > Herbert, the difficulty with your approach as I see it (and > admittedly I see it very vaguely if at all) is that you are trying to > create a completely magnetostatic system. You are naturally avoiding > using a power source in your proposed device to avoid any questions > about whether it is O/U or not. But a small amount of power in and a lot > of power out is better than no power in and a little power out. I'd have to agree here, regretfully. There are designs for devices with no power input, and a small output power, but these draw very little attention as compared to other designs which have an external input energy source. Oddly, this is true even if the output energe is less than the input energy! Any hope for decent output energy levels, regardless of the actual efficiency, is apparently still more 'interesting' than infinite efficiency at low delivered energy levels. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 08:51:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA19060 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 08:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 08:51:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Mon May 5 08:51:17 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA19026 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 08:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA10015 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 08:50:09 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 5 May 1997 08:48:58 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Lost Technology & the Aten Band Sent: Sun, May 4, 1997 8:20 AM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 8:48 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 09:19:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA23902 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:19:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Mon May 5 09:19:18 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA23857 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA10247 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:18:13 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 5 May 1997 09:17:16 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Correction to "creepy attack" Sent: Sun, May 4, 1997 9:38 AM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 9:17 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 09:20:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA24055 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:20:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Mon May 5 09:20:42 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA24001 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA10273 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:19:32 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 5 May 1997 09:17:26 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Positive Nrg Sent: Sun, May 4, 1997 2:09 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 9:17 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 09:21:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA24157 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:21:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:21:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Mon May 5 09:20:51 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA24067 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA10295 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:19:44 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 5 May 1997 09:17:31 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Positive Nrg Sent: Sun, May 4, 1997 3:25 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 9:17 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 09:21:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA24151 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:21:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:21:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Mon May 5 09:20:54 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA24068 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA10294 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:19:43 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 5 May 1997 09:17:32 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Positive Nrg Sent: Sun, May 4, 1997 3:40 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 9:17 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 09:22:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA24556 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:22:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:22:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Mon May 5 09:21:58 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA24436 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:21:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA10319 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:20:52 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 5 May 1997 09:17:35 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Creepy attack on the Hall effect Sent: Sun, May 4, 1997 4:23 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 9:17 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 09:21:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA32058 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:21:44 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:21:44 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Mon May 5 09:21:34 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA31944 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:21:33 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA10336 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:21:01 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 5 May 1997 09:17:40 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Electromechanical Overunity Sent: Sun, May 4, 1997 6:23 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 9:17 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 09:21:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA32057 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:21:44 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:21:44 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Mon May 5 09:21:34 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA31947 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:21:33 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA10338 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:21:01 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 5 May 1997 09:17:41 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Toroid with center wire Sent: Sun, May 4, 1997 6:27 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 9:17 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 09:48:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA27343 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:48:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Mon May 5 09:48:31 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA27305 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:48:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA10966 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:47:25 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 5 May 1997 09:19:49 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re: Electromechanical Overunity Sent: Sun, May 4, 1997 9:09 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 9:19 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 09:48:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA04017 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:48:14 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:48:14 -0700 X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Mon May 5 09:48:12 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com (neptune.lmms.lmco.com [129.197.67.33]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA03983 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:48:10 -0700 Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA10987 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:47:34 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 5 May 1997 09:20:16 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Re:Wanted details on the Smith Coil or antenna ,bifilar coils Sent: Mon, May 5, 1997 12:13 AM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 9:20 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 09:48:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA27429 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:48:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:48:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Mon May 5 09:48:38 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA27351 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA10986 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:47:34 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 5 May 1997 09:20:14 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: Photocells, Peltier effect and applied fields Sent: Sun, May 4, 1997 10:17 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 9:20 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 09:48:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA27427 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:48:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:48:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Mon May 5 09:48:41 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA27359 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA10985 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:47:33 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 5 May 1997 09:20:15 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: electric field around Homopolar motor. Sent: Sun, May 4, 1997 11:04 PM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 9:20 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 09:49:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA27512 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:49:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:49:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: SSD_Special@spmm.lmms.lmco.com Mon May 5 09:48:57 1997 Received: from neptune.lmms.lmco.com ([129.197.67.33]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA27470 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmm.lmms.lmco.com (mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.83.19]) by neptune.lmms.lmco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA11014 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:47:48 -0700 Message-ID: Old-Date: 5 May 1997 09:20:21 -0700 From: "SSD Special" Subject: Undeliverable Mail X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP for Quarterdeck Mail; Version 4.0.0 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows. Message: The David Hamel Scalar Generator Sent: Mon, May 5, 1997 3:14 AM To: Schalk Rudy On Server: CRSS Mail Server Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 9:20 AM Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server could not be found. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 09:56:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA03920; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:47:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:47:20 -0700 Message-Id: <336DD985.4A89@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 05:58:45 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: wharton@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov Subject: Conservation laws-- proof impossible? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EKi273.0.6z.OyWRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2962 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Good morning Larry and all! Larry Wharton said: > A "CLOSE THE LOOP" demo would be nice but the work is still of great > interest without it. The linear model testing is very significant and it > could be that Greg has made a major discovery. My guess for the source of > the energy is conversion of thermal energy into magnetic energy and then > into mechanical energy. In a previous posting I showed that the power > density for magnetic interactions, S , was given by: > > S = d(mu)/dt H dot H > > with B = mu H . This result comes from standard E&M theory and I think > that it is remarkable that standard theory gives an energy conservation > equation with a non-zero source term. A proof of conservation of energy is > only possible under certain circumstances such as: > > mu = constant (the linear region - then d(mu)/dt = 0 ) > H applied only in one direction. > In more than one dimension mu is isotropic. Larry, I am very interested in rerreading your other post on this subject. Could you resend it to me? The subject is of natural interest to me. I have been working with Jean-Louis Naudin on parametric machines where mu varies with time to create energy out of random thermal vibrations in the output circuit, and the energy required to change mu is less than the energy added to the circuit by the change. I am also interested in microwave phase shifters that are one-way systems. These use a ferrite material with a directionally anisotropic mu to make a nonreciprocal system, a system where energy can only move in one direction. These systems may be in violation of conservation laws. I would appreciate any textbook references, journal articles, etc. on the proof that "a conservation of energy law is only possible under certain circumstances..." In the meantime I will do a search of my own. Thanks in advance, Larry! Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 10:30:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA01066; Mon, 5 May 1997 10:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <336E3E2B.5230@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 13:08:11 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: dansway@pacbell.net Subject: Re: The David Hamel Scalar Generator References: <970505061140_1785639347@emout04.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"N5hRQ3.0.VG.JHXRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2963 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > Hi All, > > Dan LaRochelle had recently visited David Hamel in Canada and he sent to me > some interesting informations about the David Hamel Scalar Generator. > > You will find some schemes of this device at : > > http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/hamscgen.htm > > I hope that this information will interest you, > > Sincerely, > > Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Interesting device. Where are the south poles of the ring magnets? These do not appear to be shown. As the cam rotates the rings, where and how is any magnetic flux being canceled? I beleive (not knowing the full details of the mangets poles) that this device will simply distort flux, rather than cause magnetic flux to undergo actual vector superposition as in a bifilar coil. If this is the case, by what process are 'scalar' effects being produced? A question on the 'fogged' of 'double exposed' pictures: was any attempt made to duplicate these effects with another camera and film by Dan LaRochelle? Has this device been evalutaed by any 'known' scalar detector designs? Is there any consensus on Benini's gate devices here? From the freenrg-l message traffic, I beleive that there may have been a consensus that the device is fully conservative, with a small replusion over a large area at the input, etc. Does anyone have anything that directly addresses this issue with the Bedini gate device? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 10:32:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA02153; Mon, 5 May 1997 10:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336DE032.2B42@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 06:27:15 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: re: LIGHTNING! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9c8yO1.0.WX.gNXRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2964 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon and O'connor wrote: > > I am positively sure that we have enough technology to capture/harness > > the energy...but we aren't using it in our homes ect yet... > > > > -Shannon > > I'm not quite as sure as you are on this. Exactly what types of > conductors would you use to withstand the bolt? > > And then, how you you store the energy? What make and model capacitors > could survive in this type of application? > > Once we had the charge collected (assuming the collector survived the > strike, and some form of technology could store the energy) how would > the energy be converted into a practical form? > > Some sort of AC inverters? What switching devices could possibly > withstand the voltages found in a lightning bolt? Since here I am in ensconced in my armchair, with a dearth of technical knowledge on the subject, I am in a perfect position to speculate on ways this could be done. First my lightning system would convert the lightning into other forms of energy at the point of contact so that some of the force was dissipated in the conversion process. You have to speak of a collector before anything else. This discussion so far implies that lightning is easy to get, but no one is going to build a huge generating station unless lightning is available on demand. Soo-- cover an area around the lightning to ground channel with a metallic sheet and charge it to high voltage BELOW ground. The potential lightning will "see" this area the same as it would a very high building because the work needed for it to cross the potential difference is much less. In the middle of your lightning attractor you have a tall, totally smooth copper rod about 8 feet across. This must project high enough over the collector that discharges will only go to the rod. This huge rod passes underground into a very large tank about a third full of water. The lightning is made to pass through the water on its way to ground. The longitudinal current and thermal dissipation effects combine to create a wall of intensely hot steam which then goes to turbines. BTW, "Ground" is an extensive network of very thick copper cables spread over a large area in intimate contact with the Earth. The whole thing sounds like an amazing opportunity for the government to create a boondoggle. THe interesting part for me is the lightning collector. Is it possible that a lower energy form of this could attract microdischarges or air electricity? from The Federal Lightning Project..to you, Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 10:34:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA13484 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 10:34:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:34:27 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon May 5 10:34:24 1997 Received: from arl-img-8.compuserve.com (arl-img-8.compuserve.com [149.174.217.138]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA13282 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 10:34:23 -0700 Received: by arl-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id NAA19056; Mon, 5 May 1997 13:33:51 -0400 Old-Date: 05 May 97 13:27:19 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970505172718_515664.456256_IHL82-41@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 13 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Conservation laws-- proof impossible? Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id MAA15519; Mon, 5 May 1997 12:49:25 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA03920; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:47:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:47:20 -0700 Message-Id: <336DD985.4A89@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 05:58:45 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: wharton@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov Subject: Conservation laws-- proof impossible? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EKi273.0.6z.OyWRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2962 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Good morning Larry and all! Larry Wharton said: > A "CLOSE THE LOOP" demo would be nice but the work is still of great > interest without it. The linear model testing is very significant and it > could be that Greg has made a major discovery. My guess for the source of > the energy is conversion of thermal energy into magnetic energy and then > into mechanical energy. In a previous posting I showed that the power > density for magnetic interactions, S , was given by: > > S = d(mu)/dt H dot H > > with B = mu H . This result comes from standard E&M theory and I think > that it is remarkable that standard theory gives an energy conservation > equation with a non-zero source term. A proof of conservation of energy is > only possible under certain circumstances such as: > > mu = constant (the linear region - then d(mu)/dt = 0 ) > H applied only in one direction. > In more than one dimension mu is isotropic. Larry, I am very interested in rerreading your other post on this subject. Could you resend it to me? The subject is of natural interest to me. I have been working with Jean-Louis Naudin on parametric machines where mu varies with time to create energy out of random thermal vibrations in the output circuit, and the energy required to change mu is less than the energy added to the circuit by the change. I am also interested in microwave phase shifters that are one-way systems. These use a ferrite material with a directionally anisotropic mu to make a nonreciprocal system, a system where energy can only move in one direction. These systems may be in violation of conservation laws. I would appreciate any textbook references, journal articles, etc. on the proof that "a conservation of energy law is only possible under certain circumstances..." In the meantime I will do a search of my own. Thanks in advance, Larry! Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 11:06:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA18984 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 11:06:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 11:06:29 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon May 5 11:06:24 1997 Received: from hil-img-5.compuserve.com (hil-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.177.135]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA18777 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 11:06:23 -0700 Received: by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id OAA15811; Mon, 5 May 1997 14:05:52 -0400 Old-Date: 05 May 97 13:27:42 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970505172741_515664.456256_IHB72-22@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 12 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 re: LIGHTNING! Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id NAA02116; Mon, 5 May 1997 13:29:06 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA02153; Mon, 5 May 1997 10:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336DE032.2B42@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 06:27:15 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: re: LIGHTNING! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9c8yO1.0.WX.gNXRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2964 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bob Shannon and O'connor wrote: > > I am positively sure that we have enough technology to capture/harness > > the energy...but we aren't using it in our homes ect yet... > > > > -Shannon > > I'm not quite as sure as you are on this. Exactly what types of > conductors would you use to withstand the bolt? > > And then, how you you store the energy? What make and model capacitors > could survive in this type of application? > > Once we had the charge collected (assuming the collector survived the > strike, and some form of technology could store the energy) how would > the energy be converted into a practical form? > > Some sort of AC inverters? What switching devices could possibly > withstand the voltages found in a lightning bolt? Since here I am in ensconced in my armchair, with a dearth of technical knowledge on the subject, I am in a perfect position to speculate on ways this could be done. First my lightning system would convert the lightning into other forms of energy at the point of contact so that some of the force was dissipated in the conversion process. You have to speak of a collector before anything else. This discussion so far implies that lightning is easy to get, but no one is going to build a huge generating station unless lightning is available on demand. Soo-- cover an area around the lightning to ground channel with a metallic sheet and charge it to high voltage BELOW ground. The potential lightning will "see" this area the same as it would a very high building because the work needed for it to cross the potential difference is much less. In the middle of your lightning attractor you have a tall, totally smooth copper rod about 8 feet across. This must project high enough over the collector that discharges will only go to the rod. This huge rod passes underground into a very large tank about a third full of water. The lightning is made to pass through the water on its way to ground. The longitudinal current and thermal dissipation effects combine to create a wall of intensely hot steam which then goes to turbines. BTW, "Ground" is an extensive network of very thick copper cables spread over a large area in intimate contact with the Earth. The whole thing sounds like an amazing opportunity for the government to create a boondoggle. THe interesting part for me is the lightning collector. Is it possible that a lower energy form of this could attract microdischarges or air electricity? from The Federal Lightning Project..to you, Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 12:13:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA28215 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 12:13:31 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 12:13:31 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon May 5 12:13:27 1997 Received: from dub-img-1.compuserve.com (dub-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.206.131]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA28006 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 12:13:25 -0700 Received: by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id PAA14964; Mon, 5 May 1997 15:12:53 -0400 Old-Date: 05 May 97 15:07:17 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970505190716_515664.456256_JHO36-30@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 13 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re; John Hutchison Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id PAA10928; Mon, 5 May 1997 15:08:50 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA17337; Mon, 5 May 1997 12:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 12:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336DF9BB.50BB@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 08:16:11 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re; John Hutchison Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"slsGR3.0.nE4.hzYRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2965 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all, Having met John Hutchison I can say from my own perception John is absolutely incapable of creating a deliberate fraud. He is an otherworldly type who is more interested in the phenomena at hand than getting any gain from it. We had a hard time keeping him focussed on ways to market one of his inventions. He seems perpetually surprised at the attention that this video has gotten him. If it's all a front then I am a much poorer judge of character than I think I am. For what it's worth, Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 12:21:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA17337; Mon, 5 May 1997 12:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 12:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336DF9BB.50BB@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 08:16:11 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re; John Hutchison Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"slsGR3.0.nE4.hzYRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2965 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, Having met John Hutchison I can say from my own perception John is absolutely incapable of creating a deliberate fraud. He is an otherworldly type who is more interested in the phenomena at hand than getting any gain from it. We had a hard time keeping him focussed on ways to market one of his inventions. He seems perpetually surprised at the attention that this video has gotten him. If it's all a front then I am a much poorer judge of character than I think I am. For what it's worth, Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 13:21:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA06669; Mon, 5 May 1997 13:10:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:10:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:18:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Jason Aldo To: "Fred B. Epps" Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Photocells, Peltier effect and applied fields In-Reply-To: <336D37CF.6C77@mail.halcyon.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Vq1za2.0.6e1.owZRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2966 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 4 May 1997, Fred B. Epps wrote: > Hi Peter and all, > > Peter said > > > Has anyone experimented with Pielter effect devices or solar cells under > > applied fields? There is work being done at the University of NSW on > > boosting the output of solar cells by placement with an electrostatic field. > > It is apparently not being discussed openly, but I know results are positive. > > This sounds like the gadget that Harold Aspden and a guy named Strachan > patented a while back (don't have the #). It was a thermoelectric pile > consisting of aluminum plates separated by dielectric layers. A small > AC current flowed through the layers. Without the AC current the device > was a very inefficient converter of heat into electricity, with the > current the efficiency was around 80% as I remember. > Someone might know more about this one... I have an article or two > about it I can dig up if anyone's interested. > Fred > > Fred, I would be very interested in any information you might have regarding this patent. I have been keeping an eye open for a long time for devices that convert low- grade heat into electricity efficiently. Coupled with a heat pump with a C.O.P. of over 1, such a configuration may be over-unity. Pete (different than above) Pete Aldo 56 Central Ave. Athens, Ohio 45701 614- 594-3651 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 13:22:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA29719 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 13:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:22:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon May 5 13:22:01 1997 Received: from arl-img-8.compuserve.com (arl-img-8.compuserve.com [149.174.217.138]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA29529 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 13:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA26013; Mon, 5 May 1997 16:20:59 -0400 Old-Date: 05 May 97 16:15:07 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970505201506_515664.456256_JHR105-40@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 13 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Photocells, Peltier effect and applied fields Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by hil-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA02456; Mon, 5 May 1997 16:15:37 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA06669; Mon, 5 May 1997 13:10:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:10:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:18:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Jason Aldo To: "Fred B. Epps" Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Photocells, Peltier effect and applied fields In-Reply-To: <336D37CF.6C77@mail.halcyon.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Vq1za2.0.6e1.owZRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2966 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 4 May 1997, Fred B. Epps wrote: > Hi Peter and all, > > Peter said > > > Has anyone experimented with Pielter effect devices or solar cells under > > applied fields? There is work being done at the University of NSW on > > boosting the output of solar cells by placement with an electrostatic field. > > It is apparently not being discussed openly, but I know results are positive. > > This sounds like the gadget that Harold Aspden and a guy named Strachan > patented a while back (don't have the #). It was a thermoelectric pile > consisting of aluminum plates separated by dielectric layers. A small > AC current flowed through the layers. Without the AC current the device > was a very inefficient converter of heat into electricity, with the > current the efficiency was around 80% as I remember. > Someone might know more about this one... I have an article or two > about it I can dig up if anyone's interested. > Fred > > Fred, I would be very interested in any information you might have regarding this patent. I have been keeping an eye open for a long time for devices that convert low- grade heat into electricity efficiently. Coupled with a heat pump with a C.O.P. of over 1, such a configuration may be over-unity. Pete (different than above) Pete Aldo 56 Central Ave. Athens, Ohio 45701 614- 594-3651 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 13:34:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA10479; Mon, 5 May 1997 13:26:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:26:36 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705052026.QAA07309@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: Positive Nrg To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:26:20 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <336D0C78.1115@ix.netcom.com> from "Philip R. Gantt" at May 4, 97 03:23:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"-4uua.0.fZ2.x9aRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2967 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In what way can you teach (me/anyone) to control it? Andrew > > Science wig. sig. wrote: > > > > We all run on electricity! Why can't we control it to some extent? > > Andrew > > We can. You only need a little guidance on how to manipulate the > energy. > > > > On Sat, 3 May 1997, O'Connor wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any opinions on telekenisis? Any unique ways of looking > > > > at it, or any possible ways of showing that it is a reality? > > > > > > > > Personally, I believe in it 100%, but I don't have much logical proof > > > > behind it. I believe that every object contains a certain amount of > > > > positive nrg, and that nothing unreal exists...but I need some other > > > > observations and ideas. Please share whatever is on your mind. > > > Hi! > > > Actually, my theory is that telekinesis, as well as many, if not all > > > psionic or psychic powers *may* be possible through our minds creating or > > > manipulating virtual particles. Virtual particles facilitate the exchange > > > of energy. We all can do this to some degree, but those with the correct > > > neural nets can do it efficiently enough to produce semi regular results. > > > Just a theory, but..... > > > John > > -- > In Love and Light, > > Phil Gantt > http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html > > -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 13:49:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA01844; Mon, 5 May 1997 13:34:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:34:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705052034.QAA08557@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: LIGHTNING! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:34:08 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <336DE032.2B42@mail.halcyon.com> from "Fred B. Epps" at May 5, 97 06:27:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"REjS72.0.eS.dHaRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2968 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: But, if you use the high voltage, you lose energy as well as gain. My idea may use less energy, I'm not sure: Fire a high powered laser beam into the storm clowd. This will create an ion trail upto to storm. The lightning should come down the laser beam just like it had been a wire. NOTE: The beam should be reflected off a shiny metalic mirror so that the charge goes through the mirror, not continueing to the laser. Any ideas? Andrew > > Bob Shannon and O'connor wrote: > > > > > I am positively sure that we have enough technology to capture/harness > > > the energy...but we aren't using it in our homes ect yet... > > > > > > -Shannon > > > > I'm not quite as sure as you are on this. Exactly what types of > > conductors would you use to withstand the bolt? > > > > And then, how you you store the energy? What make and model capacitors > > could survive in this type of application? > > > > Once we had the charge collected (assuming the collector survived the > > strike, and some form of technology could store the energy) how would > > the energy be converted into a practical form? > > > > Some sort of AC inverters? What switching devices could possibly > > withstand the voltages found in a lightning bolt? > > Since here I am in ensconced in my armchair, with a dearth of > technical knowledge on the subject, I am in a perfect position to > speculate on ways this could be done. > First my lightning system would convert the lightning into other > forms of energy at the point of contact so that some of the force was > dissipated in the conversion process. > You have to speak of a collector before anything else. This > discussion so far implies that lightning is easy to get, but no one is > going to build a huge generating station unless lightning is available > on demand. > Soo-- cover an area around the lightning to ground channel with a > metallic sheet and charge it to high voltage BELOW ground. The potential > lightning will "see" this area the same as it would a very high building > because the work needed for it to cross the potential difference is much > less. > In the middle of your lightning attractor you have a tall, totally > smooth copper rod about 8 feet across. This must project high enough > over the collector that discharges will only go to the rod. This huge > rod passes underground into a very large tank about a third full of > water. The lightning is made to pass through the water on its way to > ground. The longitudinal current and thermal dissipation effects combine > to create a wall of intensely hot steam which then goes to turbines. > BTW, "Ground" is an extensive network of very thick copper cables spread > over a large area in intimate contact with the Earth. > The whole thing sounds like an amazing opportunity for the government > to create a boondoggle. > THe interesting part for me is the lightning collector. Is it > possible that a lower energy form of this could attract microdischarges > or air electricity? > from The Federal Lightning Project..to you, > Fred > > -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 13:58:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA02963; Mon, 5 May 1997 13:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:43:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705052043.QAA09412@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: LIGHTNING! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:43:11 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199705052034.QAA08557@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> from "Science wig. sig." at May 5, 97 04:34:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"oeBBC1.0.Ck.4QaRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2969 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Just to add to the last post: can you get energy out of a storm clowd just by collecting the static from ground level. No lightning needed. You know, how your hair stands on end. Could you use that to collect energy? Andrew From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 15:05:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA27371; Mon, 5 May 1997 14:52:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:52:01 -0700 Message-ID: <336E641D.315@cmet.net> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 18:50:05 -0400 From: ce3cwf = felix meyer Reply-To: ce3cwf@cmet.net Organization: CE3CWF X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Positive Nrg References: <199705052026.QAA07309@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zRn3u2.0.Zh6._PbRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2971 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Science wig. sig. wrote: > > In what way can you teach (me/anyone) to control it? > Andrew > (snip ...) > > Science wig. sig. wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I believe in it 100%, but I don't have much logical proof > > > > > behind it. I believe that every object contains a certain amount of > > > > > positive nrg, and that nothing unreal exists...but I need some other > > > > > observations and ideas. Please share whatever is on your mind. > > > > Hi! > > > > Actually, my theory is that telekinesis, as well as many, if not all > > > > psionic or psychic powers *may* be possible through our minds creating or > > > > manipulating virtual particles. Virtual particles facilitate the exchange > > > > of energy. ... Wonderful ! The only problem is, that these particles are VIRTUAL and NOT REAL !!! Regards Felix Meyer mailto:ce3cwf@cmet.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 15:10:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA10957; Mon, 5 May 1997 14:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:31:32 -0700 (PDT) From: M2Milly@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970505172812_1652145562@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Positive Nrg Resent-Message-ID: <"xVoTQ2.0.1h2.X6bRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2970 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 97-05-03 21:27:01 EDT, Shannon writes: << Does anyone have any opinions on telekenisis? Any unique ways of looking at it, or any possible ways of showing that it is a reality? Personally, I believe in it 100%, but I don't have much logical proof behind it. I believe that every object contains a certain amount of positive nrg, and that nothing unreal exists...but I need some other observations and ideas. Please share whatever is on your mind. >> Phil Gantt writes <> OK heres a little guidance for you.... They have many advanced abilities, one of which you would describe as telepathy. They have the ability not only to function as single units, but also as one consolidated thought form. When travelling across the universe, these thought form energies group together in a close compact formation, and it is this mass density that makes them appear as being semi-manifest to other eyes. Their appearance within the environs of another dense mass, such as a planet, can often be mistaken as that of a comet or shooting star. They also have the ability to individualise their energy when necessary, to the level of what you would call the Lightbody. This Lightbody can then be contained within an outer form, you could almost call it a "space suit", in order that they can manifest in the third dimension. But the result of this individualisation, and third dimensional manifestation, is that they become more vulnerable to a drain upon their energies, especially when in close contact with those of lower energy. It was in this form that they often appeared to human beings at the time of which your bible speaks, when they were called Angels. (This is name was given by you because of their ability to cross between dimensions using the 90 degree angle technique. Thus the word Angle became Angel, although they can be more accurately described by the name of E-L-ohim.) Because of the potential drain to their energies in assuming denser form, they would more often simply communicate with the minds of men, so that they thought that they saw them, in forms that were most suited to the ideas and expectations of the people with which they were dealing." Telepathy is a higher vibration pattern. Telekinesis is the dense pattern - which is very draining. On/In the higher dimensions, telepathy and telekinesis are the same. What are your expectations? MjMichael Would you know one if it shook hands with you? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 15:26:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA32582; Mon, 5 May 1997 15:17:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 15:17:22 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 01:18:06 +0300 (EET DST) From: Mika Letonsaari Reply-To: Mika Letonsaari To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LIGHTNING! In-Reply-To: <199705052043.QAA09412@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"CCbz42.0.xy7.onbRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2972 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 5 May 1997, Science wig. sig. wrote: > Just to add to the last post: can you get energy out of a storm clowd just > by collecting the static from ground level. No lightning needed. You > know, how your hair stands on end. Could you use that to collect energy? Scientific American had an article "Electrostatic motors are powered by the electric field of the earth." on The Amateur Scientist by C. L. Stong. This was probably at early 70's (?). Article says: "During fair weather the antenna will pick up potential at the rate of 100 volts for each meter of height between the points and the earth's surface up to a few hundred feet." and "a single sharp point can draw electric current from the surrounding air at a rate of only about a millionth of an ampere." No power ratings of built devices are mentioned on the article, but some electrostatic motors are powered by a 300 feet antenna lifted up by weather balloons. Has anyone developed this device further? -------------------------------------------- Mika Letonsaari, mletonsa@cc.hut.fi, http://www.hut.fi/~mletonsa Student of Engineering Physics at Helsinki University of Technology "All science is either physics or stamp collecting." - Ernest Rutherford -------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 17:38:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA15263 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 17:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:38:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon May 5 17:37:10 1997 Received: from hil-img-6.compuserve.com (hil-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.177.136]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA14922 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 17:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA01150; Mon, 5 May 1997 20:36:06 -0400 Old-Date: 05 May 97 20:29:45 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970506002944_515664.456256_IHR73-21@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 16 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: LIGHTNING Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA01091; Mon, 5 May 1997 20:31:13 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA23175; Mon, 5 May 1997 17:25:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:25:14 -0700 From: mindtech@om.com.au Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:10:08 +1000 Message-Id: <9705060010.AB06837@atom.om.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@om.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LIGHTNING Resent-Message-ID: <"j1-Qv.0.1g5.ffdRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2973 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >> I'm just wondering if anyone else out there is wondering why lightning >> is not being harnessed for power usage. >> >> I am positively sure that we have enough technology to capture/harness >> the energy...but we aren't using it in our homes ect yet... >> >> -Shannon > >I'm not quite as sure as you are on this. Exactly what types of >conductors would you use to withstand the bolt? > This has been done using barium titanate, which is very sensitive to electrical fields. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 17:40:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA23175; Mon, 5 May 1997 17:25:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:25:14 -0700 From: mindtech@om.com.au Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:10:08 +1000 Message-Id: <9705060010.AB06837@atom.om.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@om.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LIGHTNING Resent-Message-ID: <"j1-Qv.0.1g5.ffdRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2973 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> I'm just wondering if anyone else out there is wondering why lightning >> is not being harnessed for power usage. >> >> I am positively sure that we have enough technology to capture/harness >> the energy...but we aren't using it in our homes ect yet... >> >> -Shannon > >I'm not quite as sure as you are on this. Exactly what types of >conductors would you use to withstand the bolt? > This has been done using barium titanate, which is very sensitive to electrical fields. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 17:41:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA27636 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 17:41:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:41:27 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon May 5 17:41:23 1997 Received: from arl-img-2.compuserve.com (arl-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.217.132]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA27422 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 17:41:21 -0700 Received: by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA21019; Mon, 5 May 1997 20:40:49 -0400 Old-Date: 05 May 97 20:35:33 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970506003532_515664.456256_JHN46-31@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 16 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Electromechanical Overunity Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA02432; Mon, 5 May 1997 20:36:07 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA12688; Mon, 5 May 1997 17:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:25:53 -0700 (PDT) From: mindtech@om.com.au Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:10:05 +1000 Message-Id: <9705060010.AA06837@atom.om.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@om.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electromechanical Overunity Resent-Message-ID: <"pIiFt1.0.563.BgdRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2974 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >It has been proven by those who prove these things (the first two >refs) that a one-way system must include either a static magnetic field >or a mechanical coupling (such as the gyro or transducer combinations). > What about ES fields? Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 17:42:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA12688; Mon, 5 May 1997 17:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:25:53 -0700 (PDT) From: mindtech@om.com.au Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:10:05 +1000 Message-Id: <9705060010.AA06837@atom.om.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@om.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electromechanical Overunity Resent-Message-ID: <"pIiFt1.0.563.BgdRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2974 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >It has been proven by those who prove these things (the first two >refs) that a one-way system must include either a static magnetic field >or a mechanical coupling (such as the gyro or transducer combinations). > What about ES fields? Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 19:20:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA01913; Mon, 5 May 1997 19:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 19:11:14 -0700 (PDT) From: tmwsiy@mail2.wilmington.net Message-Id: <199705060209.WAA23619@mail2.wilmington.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 18 Jan 1980 22:14:04 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: DePalma web site up!! Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"oSy7j.0.YT.pCfRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2975 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello All, This is my first post to the newsgroup. I have been interested in free energy and especially the work of Bruce DePalma for awhile. I would like to announce a web site put up by his people of his latest papers. His latest designs allow for 4-1 overunity ratio. As demonstrated by Paramahamsa Tewari of India, in his most recent machines encorperationg Dr. DePalma's designs. All of the theory and most of the technical knowledge needed to build a useable free energy system in the existing infrastructure. Dr. DePalma freely gives this intellectual property to humanity in hopes that our race can come through the darkness of oppression and greed and into the radiance of enlightenment. the url is http://www.depalma.org.nz comments? I am pretty well versed with Dr. DePalma's work tmwsiy@wilmington.net Eddie Dunn From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 19:20:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA14319 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 19:20:35 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 19:20:35 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon May 5 19:20:31 1997 Received: from dub-img-10.compuserve.com (dub-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.206.140]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA14108 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 19:20:29 -0700 Received: by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA00863; Mon, 5 May 1997 22:19:58 -0400 Old-Date: 05 May 97 22:14:13 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970506021412_515664.456256_IHO44-9@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 16 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 DePalma web site up!! Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA16449; Mon, 5 May 1997 22:15:44 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA01913; Mon, 5 May 1997 19:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 19:11:14 -0700 (PDT) From: tmwsiy@mail2.wilmington.net Message-Id: <199705060209.WAA23619@mail2.wilmington.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 18 Jan 1980 22:14:04 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: DePalma web site up!! Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"oSy7j.0.YT.pCfRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2975 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello All, This is my first post to the newsgroup. I have been interested in free energy and especially the work of Bruce DePalma for awhile. I would like to announce a web site put up by his people of his latest papers. His latest designs allow for 4-1 overunity ratio. As demonstrated by Paramahamsa Tewari of India, in his most recent machines encorperationg Dr. DePalma's designs. All of the theory and most of the technical knowledge needed to build a useable free energy system in the existing infrastructure. Dr. DePalma freely gives this intellectual property to humanity in hopes that our race can come through the darkness of oppression and greed and into the radiance of enlightenment. the url is http://www.depalma.org.nz comments? I am pretty well versed with Dr. DePalma's work tmwsiy@wilmington.net Eddie Dunn From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 21:11:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA18678; Mon, 5 May 1997 21:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <336EF19B.10D2@triode.net.au> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 01:53:47 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DePalma web site up!! References: <199705060209.WAA23619@mail2.wilmington.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"elzu-1.0.kZ4.dtgRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2976 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: tmwsiy@mail2.wilmington.net wrote: > the url is http://www.depalma.org.nz > > comments? I am pretty well versed with Dr. DePalma's work > tmwsiy@wilmington.net > > Eddie Dunn I tried this link and the URL is wrong. Can you please check it and email the correct URL? Thanks and welcome to the list ;-) -- Maxwell. Be reckless! Practice senseless acts of compassion! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 21:17:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA20483 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 21:17:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:17:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon May 5 21:16:52 1997 Received: from dub-img-4.compuserve.com (dub-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.206.134]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA20231 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 21:16:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA01471; Tue, 6 May 1997 00:15:47 -0400 Old-Date: 06 May 97 00:08:04 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970506040803_515664.456256_JHM112-17@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to dub-img-8.compuserve.com bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: DePalma web site up!! Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by dub-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA16586; Tue, 6 May 1997 00:08:32 -0400 Received: from mx2.eskimo.com by relay2.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) id QQcohs18055; Tue, 6 May 1997 00:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA18678; Mon, 5 May 1997 21:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <336EF19B.10D2@triode.net.au> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 01:53:47 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DePalma web site up!! References: <199705060209.WAA23619@mail2.wilmington.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"elzu-1.0.kZ4.dtgRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2976 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com tmwsiy@mail2.wilmington.net wrote: > the url is http://www.depalma.org.nz > > comments? I am pretty well versed with Dr. DePalma's work > tmwsiy@wilmington.net > > Eddie Dunn I tried this link and the URL is wrong. Can you please check it and email the correct URL? Thanks and welcome to the list ;-) -- Maxwell. Be reckless! Practice senseless acts of compassion! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 21:25:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA32108; Mon, 5 May 1997 21:18:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:18:23 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:18:16 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LIGHTNING In-Reply-To: <336E106D.6DD4@tiac.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"t2hKE3.0.cr7.D4hRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2977 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 5 May 1997, Bob Shannon wrote: > O'Connor wrote: > > > > I'm just wondering if anyone else out there is wondering why lightning > > is not being harnessed for power usage. Because it's eeeeeeeeeeevil! ;) See: "Destroy the world with a piece of wire", http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/dworld.txt .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 21:25:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA00980 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 21:25:41 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:25:41 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon May 5 21:25:37 1997 Received: from arl-img-6.compuserve.com (arl-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.217.136]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA00771 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 21:25:35 -0700 Received: by arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA00558; Tue, 6 May 1997 00:25:03 -0400 Old-Date: 06 May 97 00:18:21 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970506041820_515664.456256_JHR40-0@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 17 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: LIGHTNING Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA00623; Tue, 6 May 1997 00:20:00 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA32108; Mon, 5 May 1997 21:18:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:18:23 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:18:16 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LIGHTNING In-Reply-To: <336E106D.6DD4@tiac.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"t2hKE3.0.cr7.D4hRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2977 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 5 May 1997, Bob Shannon wrote: > O'Connor wrote: > > > > I'm just wondering if anyone else out there is wondering why lightning > > is not being harnessed for power usage. Because it's eeeeeeeeeeevil! ;) See: "Destroy the world with a piece of wire", http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/dworld.txt .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 21:43:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA22642; Mon, 5 May 1997 21:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC599B.BC62B640@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: DePalma web site up!! Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:31:46 -0700 Encoding: 30 TEXT, 41 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"x8TSE1.0.fX5.yIhRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2978 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Looks like it's the correct URL, but a down site. AltaVista has a listing for it, URL as stated, but I can't connect either. Dan Quickert ---------- From: Maxwell Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 1997 1:53 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DePalma web site up!! tmwsiy@mail2.wilmington.net wrote: > the url is http://www.depalma.org.nz > > comments? I am pretty well versed with Dr. DePalma's work > tmwsiy@wilmington.net > > Eddie Dunn I tried this link and the URL is wrong. Can you please check it and email the correct URL? Thanks and welcome to the list ;-) -- Maxwell. Be reckless! Practice senseless acts of compassion! begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(B\$`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965N`!X,`0````4```!33510 M`````!X`'PP!````%P```&1E<75I8VME``@0`0```&4```!,3T]+4TQ)2T5)5%-42$5#3U)214-4 M55),+$)55$%$3U=.4TE414%,5$%625-404A!4T%,25-424Y'1D]2250L55), M05-35$%4140L0E5424-!3E1#3TY.14-414E42$521$%.``````(!"1 !```` M`0,``/T"``!R!0``3%I&=5'SKW'_``H!#P(5`J0#Y 7K`H,`4!,#5 (`8V@* MP'-E=.XR!@`&PP*#,@/&!Q,"@R(S#WIH96P#($1LZF<"@S03#7T*@ C/"=GB M.Q>?,C4U`H *@0VQP0M@;FP 0@(&$?8&0> M=$F;'; `<"<%0 6@;FX>`K9E'3 4\'(?A@J%1 .1\%%U:6,=```@)*P*])$< MX#$T- +1:2TGH^<,T">C"UDQ-@J@`V ?8'T>$2TJ1PJ'*/L,,"G&1CT#83HK M3BG&#((%T&%X_G<5`2KO*_T&8 (P+2\N.\)4"E!S9&%Y'G O`!!Y(# V'G Q M.3FB-S20.C4S$W!-+W]Y*_U4;S&_+CL#4 GA4 `P+D#$#(N`_ _<"%!= (@5BXCX 5 =RG2.B2L/C\=D6W1;0A@2H!L_F4@L!VA%/ E\!TA4L) ]=9E0Y(=?C\DK%01P%*@ M_R#!4N$O,3IQ'1!$8!US(0+P(#LM*22L*D E!B\%;1^&0AT0'?%K5, $$"'8 M(%!R`- A,&,=$!'P/P" %0!=H1[ 'A $(&]F]TF202 $$&D"($!]0/\;J! To: ce3cwf = felix meyer Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Positive Nrg In-Reply-To: <336E641D.315@cmet.net> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_rPt71.0.qL.CfiRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2979 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Wonderful ! > > The only problem is, that these particles are VIRTUAL and NOT REAL !!! > > Regards > Felix Meyer > > mailto:ce3cwf@cmet.net > > Actually, these are the same virtual particles that affect every reaction from a photon emission to the detonation of an atomic bomb. Or, so quantam physics predicts..... John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 23:13:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA12082 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 5 May 1997 23:13:48 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:13:48 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Mon May 5 23:13:45 1997 Received: from dub-img-9.compuserve.com (dub-img-9.compuserve.com [149.174.206.139]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA11871 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 23:13:44 -0700 Received: by dub-img-9.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id CAA21022; Tue, 6 May 1997 02:13:14 -0400 Old-Date: 06 May 97 02:07:33 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970506060732_515664.456256_JHR60-18@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 17 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Positive Nrg Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by hil-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id CAA15536; Tue, 6 May 1997 02:07:13 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA01402; Mon, 5 May 1997 23:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 00:02:06 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: ce3cwf = felix meyer Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Positive Nrg In-Reply-To: <336E641D.315@cmet.net> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_rPt71.0.qL.CfiRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2979 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > Wonderful ! > > The only problem is, that these particles are VIRTUAL and NOT REAL !!! > > Regards > Felix Meyer > > mailto:ce3cwf@cmet.net > > Actually, these are the same virtual particles that affect every reaction from a photon emission to the detonation of an atomic bomb. Or, so quantam physics predicts..... John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 23:26:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA13143; Mon, 5 May 1997 23:21:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:21:42 -0700 Message-ID: <336ECDA9.4E8B@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 15:50:25 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Simple OU Device] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5879BBC4364" Resent-Message-ID: <"N73K51.0.ED3.rtiRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2980 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5879BBC4364 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax --------------5879BBC4364 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.eisa.net.au (root@mail.eisa.net.au [203.63.152.11]) by orca.microtronics.com.au (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA16014 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 12:36:07 +0930 (CST) Received: from ppp4-55.eisa.net.au (ppp4-55.eisa.net.au [210.8.16.55]) by mail.eisa.net.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA31926 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 13:05:33 +1000 From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Subject: Re: Simple OU Device Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 03:05:37 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <336af0a5.35300248@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <336A8CAD.2EC@microtronics.com.au> In-Reply-To: <336A8CAD.2EC@microtronics.com.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 03 May 1997 10:24:05 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: [snip] Greg, I may have missed a few replies, so just in case no one else has suggested it yet, why not simply raise the exit point till it is higher than the entry point? If energy is really being added in the black box, and the friction is sufficiently low, you should be able to achieve a situation where the ball will end up higher than its starting point. If you can also show that the ball is not attracted to the black box on a level track at the same starting distance, then you have a fairly strong indication that you have an OU effect. In fact you could probably run the ball around a curved track back to the starting point, so that it keeps on going by itself. Also as a way of reducing friction still further, you might like to replace most of the track sections outside the black box with "angle-iron" ( :-) aluminium. (Angle pointed down, ball rolling on two sharp edges). Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* --------------5879BBC4364-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 23:33:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA13664; Mon, 5 May 1997 23:24:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:24:41 -0700 Message-ID: <336ECDC4.71A6@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 15:50:52 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Simple OU Device] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------AA34FFC15E7" Resent-Message-ID: <"Oo8qH2.0.JL3.ewiRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2981 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AA34FFC15E7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax --------------AA34FFC15E7 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <336D1773.18EA@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 08:40:43 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robin van Spaandonk Subject: Re: Simple OU Device References: <336A8CAD.2EC@microtronics.com.au> <336af0a5.35300248@mail.eisa.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Sat, 03 May 1997 10:24:05 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: > [snip] > Greg, > > I may have missed a few replies, so just in case no one else has > suggested it yet, why not simply raise the exit point till it is > higher than the entry point? If energy is really being added in the > black box, and the friction is sufficiently low, you should be able to > achieve a situation where the ball will end up higher than its > starting point. Haven't tried that. will give it a go. > If you can also show that the ball is not attracted to the black box > on a level track at the same starting distance, then you have a fairly > strong indication that you have an OU effect. With a stationary ball, attraction seems to start at about 40-50mm. Further away with a rolling ball. > In fact you could probably run the ball around a curved track back to > the starting point, so that it keeps on going by itself. Tried that, too much friction. Every tried to radius 12mm alum "U" channel? > Also as a way of reducing friction still further, you might like to > replace most of the track sections outside the black box with > "angle-iron" ( :-) aluminium. (Angle pointed down, ball rolling on two > sharp edges). The ball is 12mm dia, the alum "U" channel is 12mm wide, 10mm wide inside. The ball rolls on the inside edge of the "U" channel. Its fairly sharp. > Robin van Spaandonk Hi Robin, Will try the raised exit track idea. The only problem I can see is where to try it. Too close and magnetic drag back may effect the result (you can see it slow down the ball in the first 100mm or so), too far and not much energy left. But as a gut feel, I believe I could achieve at least 4-5mm. I have tested the required release height on the exit path of the "Black Box" (with the magnets removed) to achieve the same roll out distance and have found that drag back seems to kill about 75-80% of the energy. >From memory, I would say that the height was about 3-4mm above the release height on the release track. Will repeat the tests and post the results. I would like to forward this post. OK? -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax --------------AA34FFC15E7-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 5 23:34:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA14477; Mon, 5 May 1997 23:30:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:30:51 -0700 Message-ID: <336ECE7B.47AA@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 15:53:55 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Device References: <336A8CAD.2EC@microtronics.com.au> <336af0a5.35300248@mail.eisa.net.au> <336D1773.18EA@microtronics.com.au> <336eb759.32572174@mail.eisa.net.au> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7EF1129128F" Resent-Message-ID: <"ssVwB.0.3Y3.Q0jRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2982 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7EF1129128F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Mon, 05 May 1997 08:40:43 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: > [snip] > >Tried that, too much friction. Every tried to radius 12mm alum "U" > >channel? > [snip] > No, but I can imagine that it would have a strong tendency to kink. > What might be easier, if you can get a reasonable height difference, > is to put a hole in the bottom of the exit track (raised), and let the > ball fall through into another track that leads it back to the > beginning. That way you can get 180 deg. change in direction, with no > bending. Hi Robin, What about this? -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. 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<336ED0C7.51C0@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 16:03:43 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Device References: <336A8CAD.2EC@microtronics.com.au> <336C2A3D.73F8@loc1.tandem.com> <336D1313.72FC@microtronics.com.au> <336EBC24.201A@loc1.tandem.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tBeBU1.0.me3.B4jRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2983 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Horst wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > With all respect Bob, the test unit does exhibit OU. Several others > > have duplicated the device. What is left to do now is to work to fully > > understand what is going on and how to increase the energy gain and how > > to scale it up. > > Greg -- > > I do not doubt that your device is doing what you say it does and that others have replicated it. > I am just trying to think of other possible explanations. The air resistance idea was probably far > fetched, but I just thought of another possiblity. Rolling friction is proportional to the normal > force (weight) of the ball bearing. If your black box has magnets arranged in such a way that they > pull up on the ball, it reduces the rolling friction. Even if the magnets pull mostly to the side > of the track, the curve of the ball would tend to make it ride toward one rail, and to make it ride > higher in the track. Either effect would be sort of like a primative magnetic bearing. It would > not be too far fetched to think that this could reduce total friction by around half, letting it > roll 2.4 m instead of 1.1 m. You have probably already discounted this somehow, but I am curious > as to how you can be sure this is not the effect you are seeing. > > > > > I am working to develop a rotary unit which will deliver 1 watt of > > electrical power to a small bulb. > > > If you accomplish this, it should put all questions to rest. > > Good luck, > > -- Bob Hi Bob, The ball rolls slightly above the centre line of the magnets. This is done to increase the downward force vectors to help overcome unbalanced side to side attraction. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 00:20:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA19691; Tue, 6 May 1997 00:12:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 00:12:14 -0700 Message-ID: <336ED994.3D7F@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 16:41:16 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Subject: Simple OU Device Tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-3JbW2.0.Tp4.DdjRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2984 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Thanks to Robin, I have revisited my linear model test setup. What I found was not what I wanted to find. I created a release ramp based on the idea of delivering the ball to the entry point of the "Black Box" at at zero energy or as close to it as I could get. What actually occured was the "Black Box" attracted the ball 100-150mm from the entry point (while the ball was still rolling). The ball at this point had some kinetic energy and the exit energy calcs (based on zero entry energy) were in error. I have now modified the test setup to a 75mm level entry track. The ball is placed on the end of the entry track and restrained from moving by a balsa stick. The stick is drawn upward and the ball is allowed to enter the "Black Box". The ball still exits the "Black Box", but stops about 600mm along the exit track. It is NOT drawn back! Further tesing is under way. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 00:28:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA10210; Tue, 6 May 1997 00:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 00:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <336EDE0F.2278@gorge.net> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 00:30:23 -0700 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LIGHTNING! References: <199705060634.XAA14743@mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Je26s.0.RV2.LojRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2985 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: One could look at lightning as a failure of a capacitor. The potential between two capacitor "plates" (ie cloud and ground) becomes so great that the dielectric (air) becomes ionized and fails. Instead of trying to take advantage of a failure, why not build a huge capacitor to take the built up charge from the air. Maybe a highly saline pond, with with an insulating barrier (Polyethelene) surrounding the bottom half. Then a conductor to a balloon, feeding to the bottom half. the top half would be at ground. A somewhat similar idea was used by TESLA: a wire to a balloon, current flows through the witre, to ground. BUT.. instead, it charges a capacitor, which fires across a apark gap, to a transformer. High frequency AC, from the sky!! Tom Miller From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 02:32:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA10051; Tue, 6 May 1997 02:28:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 02:28:07 -0700 Message-ID: <336EF999.6CB0@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 02:27:53 -0700 From: "Philip R. Gantt" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Positive Nrg References: <199705052026.QAA07309@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Kga5G1.0.zS2.cclRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2986 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Science wig. sig. wrote: > > In what way can you teach (me/anyone) to control it? > Andrew Hi Andrew, Well, for starters check out my web page and read the article that I wrote on telepathy. Practice the exercises in that paper and you will begin to see how to manipulate the energy that we all can control. Also check out the Aum Ru pages. The exercises in this discipline are akin to Yoga exercises and disciplines. Like any skill worth gaining, it takes work and practice (not belief or faith). The key element to controlling the forces of nature outside of the physical body is to first control those forces within the physical body. This takes mental and emotional energy, focused and controlled. The effects are amplified by controlled breathing to establish a resonant condition between body, emotion and mental substance. You may write me directly if you have any more questions (pgantt@ix.netcom.com). -- In Love and Light, Phil Gantt http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 02:39:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA17875 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 6 May 1997 02:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 02:39:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue May 6 02:38:55 1997 Received: from dub-img-5.compuserve.com (dub-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.206.135]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA17689 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 02:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id FAA19189; Tue, 6 May 1997 05:37:54 -0400 Old-Date: 06 May 97 05:31:02 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970506093101_515664.456256_JHL61-37@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 18 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Positive Nrg Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id FAA18982; Tue, 6 May 1997 05:31:33 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA10051; Tue, 6 May 1997 02:28:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 02:28:07 -0700 Message-ID: <336EF999.6CB0@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 02:27:53 -0700 From: "Philip R. Gantt" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Positive Nrg References: <199705052026.QAA07309@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Kga5G1.0.zS2.cclRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2986 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Science wig. sig. wrote: > > In what way can you teach (me/anyone) to control it? > Andrew Hi Andrew, Well, for starters check out my web page and read the article that I wrote on telepathy. Practice the exercises in that paper and you will begin to see how to manipulate the energy that we all can control. Also check out the Aum Ru pages. The exercises in this discipline are akin to Yoga exercises and disciplines. Like any skill worth gaining, it takes work and practice (not belief or faith). The key element to controlling the forces of nature outside of the physical body is to first control those forces within the physical body. This takes mental and emotional energy, focused and controlled. The effects are amplified by controlled breathing to establish a resonant condition between body, emotion and mental substance. You may write me directly if you have any more questions (pgantt@ix.netcom.com). -- In Love and Light, Phil Gantt http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 05:34:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA29491; Tue, 6 May 1997 05:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 05:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970506215018.28e7bf2c@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 21:50:18 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Re; John Hutchison In-Reply-To: <336DF9BB.50BB@mail.halcyon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ebxeY3.0.iC7.k8oRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2987 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:16 AM 5/5/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi all, > > Having met John Hutchison I can say from my own perception John is >absolutely incapable of creating a deliberate fraud. He is an >otherworldly type who is more interested in the phenomena at hand than >getting any gain from it. We had a hard time keeping him focussed on >ways to market one of his inventions. He seems perpetually surprised at >the attention that this video has gotten him. If it's all a front then >I am a much poorer judge of character than I think I am. > For what it's worth, > Fred > > > could you enlighten me on John Hutchinson and his claims Geoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 05:40:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA01508 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 6 May 1997 05:40:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 05:40:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue May 6 05:40:17 1997 Received: from arl-img-8.compuserve.com (arl-img-8.compuserve.com [149.174.217.138]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA01320 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 05:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id IAA10051; Tue, 6 May 1997 08:39:16 -0400 Old-Date: 06 May 97 08:31:23 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970506123122_515664.456256_JHO47-39@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 17 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Re; John Hutchison Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id IAA19854; Tue, 6 May 1997 08:32:58 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA29491; Tue, 6 May 1997 05:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 05:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970506215018.28e7bf2c@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 21:50:18 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Re; John Hutchison In-Reply-To: <336DF9BB.50BB@mail.halcyon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ebxeY3.0.iC7.k8oRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2987 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 08:16 AM 5/5/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi all, > > Having met John Hutchison I can say from my own perception John is >absolutely incapable of creating a deliberate fraud. He is an >otherworldly type who is more interested in the phenomena at hand than >getting any gain from it. We had a hard time keeping him focussed on >ways to market one of his inventions. He seems perpetually surprised at >the attention that this video has gotten him. If it's all a front then >I am a much poorer judge of character than I think I am. > For what it's worth, > Fred > > > could you enlighten me on John Hutchinson and his claims Geoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 07:00:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA04703; Tue, 6 May 1997 06:58:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 06:58:39 -0700 From: tmwsiy@mail2.wilmington.net Message-Id: <199705061357.JAA18343@mail2.wilmington.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 19 Jan 1980 10:03:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: DePalma web site Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"azeYS2.0.L91.EapRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2988 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello again, I am not sure what the problem is... http://www.depalma.org.nz works for me. Also the real domain name is http://www.iconz.co.nz/commercial/depalma/default.html which also works for me, sorry for any confusion. I am not sure why everyone is having trouble, any explanations? The information is very worth it though :) Eddie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 07:06:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA07996 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 6 May 1997 07:06:18 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 07:06:18 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue May 6 07:06:15 1997 Received: from hil-img-2.compuserve.com (hil-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.177.132]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA07783 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 07:06:14 -0700 Received: by hil-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id KAA02473; Tue, 6 May 1997 10:05:43 -0400 Old-Date: 06 May 97 10:00:02 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970506140001_515664.456256_IHB49-30@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 19 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 DePalma web site Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id JAA20922; Tue, 6 May 1997 09:59:35 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA04703; Tue, 6 May 1997 06:58:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 06:58:39 -0700 From: tmwsiy@mail2.wilmington.net Message-Id: <199705061357.JAA18343@mail2.wilmington.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 19 Jan 1980 10:03:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: DePalma web site Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"azeYS2.0.L91.EapRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2988 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello again, I am not sure what the problem is... http://www.depalma.org.nz works for me. Also the real domain name is http://www.iconz.co.nz/commercial/depalma/default.html which also works for me, sorry for any confusion. I am not sure why everyone is having trouble, any explanations? The information is very worth it though :) Eddie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 08:06:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA15444; Tue, 6 May 1997 07:57:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 07:57:43 -0700 Message-ID: <336F70E2.6B84@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 10:56:50 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DePalma web site References: <199705061357.JAA18343@mail2.wilmington.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"20Rf83.0.En3.cRqRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2989 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: tmwsiy@mail2.wilmington.net wrote: > > Hello again, > > I am not sure what the problem is... http://www.depalma.org.nz works > for me. Also the real domain name is > http://www.iconz.co.nz/commercial/depalma/default.html > which also works for me, sorry for any confusion. I am not sure why everyone is having > trouble, any explanations? The information is very worth it though > :) > > Eddie My question is whats new from DePalma? We have read of the Sunburst device being over unity according to DePalma, only to find that this device was not in fact over unity. So whats changed? The photo on the web site shows an older device, from the days when Sunburst was still claimed to be over unity. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 09:58:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA04397 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 6 May 1997 09:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 09:58:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue May 6 09:57:38 1997 Received: from hil-img-7.compuserve.com (hil-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.177.137]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA04115 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 09:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id MAA29033; Tue, 6 May 1997 12:56:32 -0400 Old-Date: 06 May 97 12:48:48 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970506164847_515664.456256_JHL61-42@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 17 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Earth gyro power Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by hil-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id MAA11205; Tue, 6 May 1997 12:48:35 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA02289; Tue, 6 May 1997 09:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 09:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336F29EA.4629@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 05:54:02 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: Jean-Louis Naudin Subject: Re: Earth gyro power Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tUOwQ3.0.eZ.T0sRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2990 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Jean-Louis, I am going to pick up a copy of the gyro-power patent at the nearby engineering library so if you can't get the file, I will send you the patent. It's very strange to me to see this discussion of the tapping of the Earth's rotation. I was inspired to study this two years ago after reading Martin Rudefer's paper called "Tapping The Earth's Rotation For Power" which very clearly delineates the ways to do this. Based on his work I did many studies of gyro characteristics, motors, lubrication, etc. I designed a machine that sounds very similar to this patent. When the discussion began on this subject on the list I held back from commenting because I thought maybe people were tired of me butting in on every discussion. There's no question that it is possible to do this. The physics is basic and inaruguable (and I won't argue it!) and will be apparent to anyone who understands gyros, inertial frames of reference, and Foucalt's pendulum. The slowing down of the Earth's rotation was calculated to be insignificant in the lifetime of the human race on the planet, even with a huge power usage. (Sorry I don't have the figures with me). The gyro rotor in my machine was a bicycle-wheel like disc with a thick rim and high-quality bearings, in a vacuum container, intermittently driven by a permanent magnet or pulsed gyro motor. To arrive at this design I evaluated possible modes of operation, moments of inertia, characteristics of all gyro suspension systems, and motors. Someone mentioned earlier on the list the possibility of using a gear train to make the rotational power usable. This is what I did. With the rotor configuration I've described the apparent "gyroscopic torque" (actually the rotation of the earth!) is at its highest: plenty of torque to drive a gear train. The problem with this kind of device is its efficiency. Necessarily there is some input power into the gyro rotor. There are also considerable mechanical losses involved in the gear train, and electromechanical conversion losses. After adding up all the losses I think I arrived at a figure of 120% "apparent" efficiency. At this point I abandoned the idea because I wanted MORE :-) I have not looked a the patent yet so I can't say what the problem is, but my design had no difficulty with having to be stopped and restarted. The orientation of the whole gyro platform relative to the earth's surface determines the motion of the gyro. There are several operational modes possible. Some of them would tend to "lock". Mine did not. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 10:06:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA02289; Tue, 6 May 1997 09:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 09:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <336F29EA.4629@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 05:54:02 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: Jean-Louis Naudin Subject: Re: Earth gyro power Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tUOwQ3.0.eZ.T0sRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2990 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis, I am going to pick up a copy of the gyro-power patent at the nearby engineering library so if you can't get the file, I will send you the patent. It's very strange to me to see this discussion of the tapping of the Earth's rotation. I was inspired to study this two years ago after reading Martin Rudefer's paper called "Tapping The Earth's Rotation For Power" which very clearly delineates the ways to do this. Based on his work I did many studies of gyro characteristics, motors, lubrication, etc. I designed a machine that sounds very similar to this patent. When the discussion began on this subject on the list I held back from commenting because I thought maybe people were tired of me butting in on every discussion. There's no question that it is possible to do this. The physics is basic and inaruguable (and I won't argue it!) and will be apparent to anyone who understands gyros, inertial frames of reference, and Foucalt's pendulum. The slowing down of the Earth's rotation was calculated to be insignificant in the lifetime of the human race on the planet, even with a huge power usage. (Sorry I don't have the figures with me). The gyro rotor in my machine was a bicycle-wheel like disc with a thick rim and high-quality bearings, in a vacuum container, intermittently driven by a permanent magnet or pulsed gyro motor. To arrive at this design I evaluated possible modes of operation, moments of inertia, characteristics of all gyro suspension systems, and motors. Someone mentioned earlier on the list the possibility of using a gear train to make the rotational power usable. This is what I did. With the rotor configuration I've described the apparent "gyroscopic torque" (actually the rotation of the earth!) is at its highest: plenty of torque to drive a gear train. The problem with this kind of device is its efficiency. Necessarily there is some input power into the gyro rotor. There are also considerable mechanical losses involved in the gear train, and electromechanical conversion losses. After adding up all the losses I think I arrived at a figure of 120% "apparent" efficiency. At this point I abandoned the idea because I wanted MORE :-) I have not looked a the patent yet so I can't say what the problem is, but my design had no difficulty with having to be stopped and restarted. The orientation of the whole gyro platform relative to the earth's surface determines the motion of the gyro. There are several operational modes possible. Some of them would tend to "lock". Mine did not. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 12:40:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA28021; Tue, 6 May 1997 12:13:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 12:13:28 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705061913.PAA09463@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: LIGHTNING! (fwd) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:13:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"RH-h23.0.jr6.MBuRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2991 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Forwarded message: > From rgd872@leonard.anu.edu.au Mon May 5 17:09:52 1997 > X-Authentication-Warning: leonard.anu.edu.au: rgd872 owned process doing -bs > Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 07:09:36 +1000 (EST) > From: Rodney Davies > Reply-To: Rodney Davies > To: "Science wig. sig." > Subject: Re: LIGHTNING! > In-Reply-To: <199705052034.QAA08557@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Hi Andrew, > > (Sorry, I can read from the listserve, but it won't let me write to it.. > so this message is going directly to you...please forward it to the list > if you wish...) > > On Mon, 5 May 1997, Science wig. sig. wrote: > > > But, if you use the high voltage, you lose energy as well as gain. My > > idea may use less energy, I'm not sure: > > Fire a high powered laser beam into the storm clowd. This will create an > > ion trail upto to storm. The lightning should come down the laser beam > > just like it had been a wire. NOTE: The beam should be reflected off a > > shiny metalic mirror so that the charge goes through the mirror, not > > continueing to the laser. Any ideas? > > Andrew > > Your idea seems interesting....very! > > I'm assuming that when you refer to using a laser beam like a wire, you > mean that the plasma that surrounds a laser beam is the conductive medium? > > If that is the case, then your idea I think has already been in use for a > few years now... > Some research facility in Japan was employing this technique by using > visible and invisible laser beams (relatively high power, > 10Watts > output) to attract lightning. > > There may be several techniques employed in extracting the energy from the > beams themselves, such as induction and direct 'tapping' > of the laser beam. > > The induction method would use huge (high-current) coil (or a number > of them) which is heavily insulated and surrounds the beam. When the > lightning passes down the beam, there is effectively an EMF created along > the "wire". This EMF produces a _huge_ magnetic field which can be used > for inducing voltages. > In this case, you will have only a small number of turns in the coil(s) as > to generate a small voltage but relatively high-current. This can then be > used much easily that a "pure" lightning bolt. > > There would then need to be filters which catch any stray EMF which makes > it past the coil(s) before it reaches the laser source. > > > The direct tapping method would use a star-pattern of conductors > penetrating the laser beam at right angles - > > > \ | / <- conductors > -- . -- (looking into the "." laser beam) > / | \ > > These would only just penetrate the laser beam through the plasma > conductive layer (not all the way into the beam) as to be able to "tap" > the EMF flowing through it. > > These conductors would be connected together then perhaps passed through > some ultra-high voltage step-down transformers or to some other device to > then employ the use of the energy that has been tapped.... > > Anyway, they're my ideas, not sure if they're the techniques used in > Japan, but I developed them myself.... > > See what everyone else says! > > Catchya Later! > > Rod > > > -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 13:09:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA03660; Tue, 6 May 1997 12:53:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 12:53:48 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970506155158_1189505226@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: bshannon@tiac.net Subject: Update about : The David Hamel Scalar Generator Resent-Message-ID: <"idQIV1.0.2v.AnuRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2992 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have updated "The David Hamel Scalar Generator" with new schemes and some details about the magnet polarity. You will find these informations at : http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/hamscgen.htm I hope that this information will interest you, Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 13:43:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA10369; Tue, 6 May 1997 13:27:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:27:32 -0700 Message-ID: <336F92A7.E81E74D5@sihope.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 15:20:55 -0500 From: Geoffm1 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b3 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: (no subject) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A6C3795627D080D962D15851" Resent-Message-ID: <"TANht3.0.xX2.pGvRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2993 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A6C3795627D080D962D15851 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PLEASE FORWARD INFO ON UNSUb CRIBING --------------A6C3795627D080D962D15851 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Geoffm1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Geoffm1 n:;Geoffm1 email;internet:geoffm1@sihope.com x-mozilla-cpt:;0 x-mozilla-html:TRUE end:vcard --------------A6C3795627D080D962D15851-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 13:50:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA15244 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 6 May 1997 13:50:34 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:50:34 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue May 6 13:50:29 1997 Received: from hil-img-5.compuserve.com (hil-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.177.135]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA15011 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 13:50:20 -0700 Received: by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA19698; Tue, 6 May 1997 16:44:49 -0400 Old-Date: 06 May 97 16:37:01 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970506203700_515664.456256_GHQ39-54@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 21 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 (no subject) Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA09594; Tue, 6 May 1997 16:36:39 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA10369; Tue, 6 May 1997 13:27:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:27:32 -0700 Message-ID: <336F92A7.E81E74D5@sihope.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 15:20:55 -0500 From: Geoffm1 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b3 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: (no subject) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A6C3795627D080D962D15851" Resent-Message-ID: <"TANht3.0.xX2.pGvRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2993 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A6C3795627D080D962D15851 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PLEASE FORWARD INFO ON UNSUb CRIBING --------------A6C3795627D080D962D15851 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Geoffm1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Geoffm1 n:;Geoffm1 email;internet:geoffm1@sihope.com x-mozilla-cpt:;0 x-mozilla-html:TRUE end:vcard --------------A6C3795627D080D962D15851-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 15:51:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA00349 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 6 May 1997 15:51:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:51:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue May 6 15:50:04 1997 Received: from arl-img-8.compuserve.com (arl-img-8.compuserve.com [149.174.217.138]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA29869 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 15:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA11518; Tue, 6 May 1997 18:48:49 -0400 Old-Date: 06 May 97 18:42:16 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970506224215_515664.456256_IHB43-14@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 22 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 What's new with DePalma Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA06834; Tue, 6 May 1997 18:41:42 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA01789; Tue, 6 May 1997 15:31:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:31:45 -0700 From: tmwsiy@mail2.wilmington.net Message-Id: <199705062230.SAA17402@mail2.wilmington.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 19 Jan 1980 18:36:49 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: What's new with DePalma Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"Qophu2.0.pR.H5xRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2994 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com FIrst of all the Sunburst Machine operates on exactly the same principles as Tewari's machine (which operates on DePalma's principles) his (Tewari's) latest machies are the only ones built on these principles which offer overunity in the strictest sense (i.e. more electrical output than input). In the case of the Sunburst machine in a strict sense, It was not overunity because it required power for the electro-magnet (all the new machines use permanent magnets) and the A.C. drive motor. But the DIFFERENCE in energy required to merely spin the charged electromagnet with an open circuit and that required when closing the loop and generating 2 or 3 kilowatts was about a 4 or 5 to 1 ratio out to in. I am not at liberty to discuss DePalma's current plans other than is well and in New Zealand. A word about the latest "bad press" about DePalma: These recent posts originated with ZENergy company, a former backer of DePalma. These people have a good history of trying to exploit Scientists for there knowledge and then discarding them. When DePalma realized this pulled out from the deal they sent a group of Foriegn Nationals (illegally) to his home in New Zealand to confiscate the machines which they had funded. I nor Dr. DePalma is in the buisness of providing plans for over-unity machines at risk of being shot, however as I said all the information required to build such a machine is contained in the papers and in the excepts from Tewari's book. Eddie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 15:52:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA01789; Tue, 6 May 1997 15:31:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:31:45 -0700 From: tmwsiy@mail2.wilmington.net Message-Id: <199705062230.SAA17402@mail2.wilmington.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 19 Jan 1980 18:36:49 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: What's new with DePalma Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"Qophu2.0.pR.H5xRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2994 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FIrst of all the Sunburst Machine operates on exactly the same principles as Tewari's machine (which operates on DePalma's principles) his (Tewari's) latest machies are the only ones built on these principles which offer overunity in the strictest sense (i.e. more electrical output than input). In the case of the Sunburst machine in a strict sense, It was not overunity because it required power for the electro-magnet (all the new machines use permanent magnets) and the A.C. drive motor. But the DIFFERENCE in energy required to merely spin the charged electromagnet with an open circuit and that required when closing the loop and generating 2 or 3 kilowatts was about a 4 or 5 to 1 ratio out to in. I am not at liberty to discuss DePalma's current plans other than is well and in New Zealand. A word about the latest "bad press" about DePalma: These recent posts originated with ZENergy company, a former backer of DePalma. These people have a good history of trying to exploit Scientists for there knowledge and then discarding them. When DePalma realized this pulled out from the deal they sent a group of Foriegn Nationals (illegally) to his home in New Zealand to confiscate the machines which they had funded. I nor Dr. DePalma is in the buisness of providing plans for over-unity machines at risk of being shot, however as I said all the information required to build such a machine is contained in the papers and in the excepts from Tewari's book. Eddie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 16:32:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA06457 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 6 May 1997 16:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 16:32:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue May 6 16:31:51 1997 Received: from arl-img-4.compuserve.com (arl-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.217.134]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA06192 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 16:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id TAA09732; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:30:36 -0400 Old-Date: 06 May 97 19:24:55 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970506232454_515664.456256_JHG41-26@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 23 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: LIGHTNING Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id TAA02382; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:24:34 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA09241; Tue, 6 May 1997 16:19:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 16:19:04 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:16:17 -0500 (CDT) From: John Fields Subject: Re: LIGHTNING To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <9705060010.AB06837@atom.om.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PJaSE3.0.JG2.dnxRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2995 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 6 May 1997 mindtech@om.com.au wrote: > >> I'm just wondering if anyone else out there is wondering why lightning > >> is not being harnessed for power usage. > >> > >> I am positively sure that we have enough technology to capture/harness > >> the energy...but we aren't using it in our homes ect yet... > >> > >> -Shannon > > > >I'm not quite as sure as you are on this. Exactly what types of > >conductors would you use to withstand the bolt? > > > > This has been done using barium titanate, which is very sensitive to > electrical fields. > > Peter Nielsen --------------- As far as I know, Barium Titanate is not a conductor of electricity. On the other hand, once it has been poled it becomes a fairly good piezoelectric material with a high dielectric constant. The point could be made that if a capacitor were to be constructed using poled barium titanate as the dielectric and it was excited with an AC voltage, it would appear to be a conductor since current could be caused to flow "through" it. Interestingly, since the piezoelectric qualities of the material would cause the capacitor to change shape, the capacitance of the capacitor would be parametric and would change as a function of the voltage applied across it. I suppose it would be possible, if you had a big enough chunk of the stuff and it got hit by lightning, to do an impedance transformation and more or less "tame" the energy in the lightning bolt so it could be stored at voltage levels we could more easily work with to convert to the 120V 60Hz we (here in the US) are familiar with. John Fields ----------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 16:32:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA09241; Tue, 6 May 1997 16:19:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 16:19:04 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:16:17 -0500 (CDT) From: John Fields Subject: Re: LIGHTNING To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <9705060010.AB06837@atom.om.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PJaSE3.0.JG2.dnxRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2995 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 6 May 1997 mindtech@om.com.au wrote: > >> I'm just wondering if anyone else out there is wondering why lightning > >> is not being harnessed for power usage. > >> > >> I am positively sure that we have enough technology to capture/harness > >> the energy...but we aren't using it in our homes ect yet... > >> > >> -Shannon > > > >I'm not quite as sure as you are on this. Exactly what types of > >conductors would you use to withstand the bolt? > > > > This has been done using barium titanate, which is very sensitive to > electrical fields. > > Peter Nielsen --------------- As far as I know, Barium Titanate is not a conductor of electricity. On the other hand, once it has been poled it becomes a fairly good piezoelectric material with a high dielectric constant. The point could be made that if a capacitor were to be constructed using poled barium titanate as the dielectric and it was excited with an AC voltage, it would appear to be a conductor since current could be caused to flow "through" it. Interestingly, since the piezoelectric qualities of the material would cause the capacitor to change shape, the capacitance of the capacitor would be parametric and would change as a function of the voltage applied across it. I suppose it would be possible, if you had a big enough chunk of the stuff and it got hit by lightning, to do an impedance transformation and more or less "tame" the energy in the lightning bolt so it could be stored at voltage levels we could more easily work with to convert to the 120V 60Hz we (here in the US) are familiar with. John Fields ----------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 17:03:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA06986; Tue, 6 May 1997 16:34:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 16:34:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:31:32 -0500 (CDT) From: John Fields Subject: Re: Earth gyro power To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Jean-Louis Naudin In-Reply-To: <336F29EA.4629@mail.halcyon.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_b0gW2.0.0j1.M0yRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2996 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 6 May 1997, Fred B. Epps wrote: > Hi Jean-Louis, > > I am going to pick up a copy of the gyro-power patent at the nearby > engineering library so if you can't get the file, I will send you the > patent. > It's very strange to me to see this discussion of the tapping of the > Earth's rotation. I was inspired to study this two years ago after > reading Martin Rudefer's paper called "Tapping The Earth's Rotation For > Power" which very clearly delineates the ways to do this. Based on his > work I did many studies of gyro characteristics, motors, lubrication, > etc. I designed a machine that sounds very similar to this patent. When > the discussion began on this subject on the list I held back from > commenting because I thought maybe people were tired of me butting in on > every discussion. > There's no question that it is possible to do this. The physics is > basic and inaruguable (and I won't argue it!) and will be apparent to > anyone who understands gyros, inertial frames of reference, and > Foucalt's pendulum. The slowing down of the Earth's rotation was > calculated to be insignificant in the lifetime of the human race on the > planet, even with a huge power usage. (Sorry I don't have the figures > with me). > The gyro rotor in my machine was a bicycle-wheel like disc with a > thick rim and high-quality bearings, in a vacuum container, > intermittently driven by a permanent magnet or pulsed gyro motor. To > arrive at this design I evaluated possible modes of operation, moments > of inertia, characteristics of all gyro suspension systems, and motors. > Someone mentioned earlier on the list the possibility of using a gear > train to make the rotational power usable. This is what I did. With the > rotor configuration I've described the apparent "gyroscopic torque" > (actually the rotation of the earth!) is at its highest: plenty of > torque to drive a gear train. > The problem with this kind of device is its efficiency. Necessarily > there is some input power into the gyro rotor. There are also > considerable mechanical losses involved in the gear train, and > electromechanical conversion losses. After adding up all the losses I > think I arrived at a figure of 120% "apparent" efficiency. At this point > I abandoned the idea because I wanted MORE :-) > I have not looked a the patent yet so I can't say what the problem > is, but my design had no difficulty with having to be stopped and > restarted. The orientation of the whole gyro platform relative to the > earth's surface determines the motion of the gyro. There are several > operational modes possible. Some of them would tend to "lock". Mine did > not. > Fred > > -------------------------------------------- I have done many paper designs and have always found, during the translation to reality, that "There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip." Build it. John Fields ----------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 17:05:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA17716 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:05:32 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:05:32 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue May 6 17:05:29 1997 Received: from dub-img-1.compuserve.com (dub-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.206.131]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA17503 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:05:27 -0700 Received: by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA26096; Tue, 6 May 1997 20:05:05 -0400 Old-Date: 06 May 97 19:58:50 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970506235849_515664.456256_IHJ70-20@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 16 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Earth gyro power Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com ([204.122.16.49]) by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id TAA00783; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:58:42 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA06986; Tue, 6 May 1997 16:34:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 16:34:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:31:32 -0500 (CDT) From: John Fields Subject: Re: Earth gyro power To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Jean-Louis Naudin In-Reply-To: <336F29EA.4629@mail.halcyon.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_b0gW2.0.0j1.M0yRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2996 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 6 May 1997, Fred B. Epps wrote: > Hi Jean-Louis, > > I am going to pick up a copy of the gyro-power patent at the nearby > engineering library so if you can't get the file, I will send you the > patent. > It's very strange to me to see this discussion of the tapping of the > Earth's rotation. I was inspired to study this two years ago after > reading Martin Rudefer's paper called "Tapping The Earth's Rotation For > Power" which very clearly delineates the ways to do this. Based on his > work I did many studies of gyro characteristics, motors, lubrication, > etc. I designed a machine that sounds very similar to this patent. When > the discussion began on this subject on the list I held back from > commenting because I thought maybe people were tired of me butting in on > every discussion. > There's no question that it is possible to do this. The physics is > basic and inaruguable (and I won't argue it!) and will be apparent to > anyone who understands gyros, inertial frames of reference, and > Foucalt's pendulum. The slowing down of the Earth's rotation was > calculated to be insignificant in the lifetime of the human race on the > planet, even with a huge power usage. (Sorry I don't have the figures > with me). > The gyro rotor in my machine was a bicycle-wheel like disc with a > thick rim and high-quality bearings, in a vacuum container, > intermittently driven by a permanent magnet or pulsed gyro motor. To > arrive at this design I evaluated possible modes of operation, moments > of inertia, characteristics of all gyro suspension systems, and motors. > Someone mentioned earlier on the list the possibility of using a gear > train to make the rotational power usable. This is what I did. With the > rotor configuration I've described the apparent "gyroscopic torque" > (actually the rotation of the earth!) is at its highest: plenty of > torque to drive a gear train. > The problem with this kind of device is its efficiency. Necessarily > there is some input power into the gyro rotor. There are also > considerable mechanical losses involved in the gear train, and > electromechanical conversion losses. After adding up all the losses I > think I arrived at a figure of 120% "apparent" efficiency. At this point > I abandoned the idea because I wanted MORE :-) > I have not looked a the patent yet so I can't say what the problem > is, but my design had no difficulty with having to be stopped and > restarted. The orientation of the whole gyro platform relative to the > earth's surface determines the motion of the gyro. There are several > operational modes possible. Some of them would tend to "lock". Mine did > not. > Fred > > -------------------------------------------- I have done many paper designs and have always found, during the translation to reality, that "There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip." Build it. John Fields ----------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 17:40:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA20522; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:27:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:27:23 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC5A53.805A05A0@pittypat.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Positive Nrg Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:49:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SQM5E2.0.W05.hnyRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2998 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If I understand, Virtual particals exist for a very short time, are very small, and go in and out of the space vac. (Not a true vac.) Am I right on this? I only remember reading a newspaper article on it. Anyone know more than this? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 17:44:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA22737 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:44:06 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:44:06 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue May 6 17:44:01 1997 Received: from hil-img-10.compuserve.com (hil-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.177.140]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA22464 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:43:30 -0700 Received: by hil-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA29406; Tue, 6 May 1997 20:43:16 -0400 Old-Date: 06 May 97 20:35:50 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970507003549_515664.456256_GHQ68-25@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 23 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 RE: Positive Nrg Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA26120; Tue, 6 May 1997 20:35:25 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA20522; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:27:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:27:23 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC5A53.805A05A0@pittypat.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Positive Nrg Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:49:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SQM5E2.0.W05.hnyRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2998 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If I understand, Virtual particals exist for a very short time, are very small, and go in and out of the space vac. (Not a true vac.) Am I right on this? I only remember reading a newspaper article on it. Anyone know more than this? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 17:45:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA23204 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:45:05 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:45:05 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue May 6 17:45:02 1997 Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com (arl-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.217.135]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA22991 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:44:59 -0700 Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA02682; Tue, 6 May 1997 20:44:26 -0400 Old-Date: 06 May 97 20:37:59 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970507003758_515664.456256_JHN36-39@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 17 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Microwaves! Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by hil-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA05481; Tue, 6 May 1997 20:37:50 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA14594; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC5A53.72EDBE20@pittypat.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Microwaves! Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:40:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NbKHY3.0.vZ3.vnyRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2997 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I have a old microwave and I want to know what can I use it for? (Other than the norm. and the water-powered mower.) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 17:45:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA14594; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC5A53.72EDBE20@pittypat.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Microwaves! Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:40:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NbKHY3.0.vZ3.vnyRp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2997 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have a old microwave and I want to know what can I use it for? (Other than the norm. and the water-powered mower.) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 18:30:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA30309; Tue, 6 May 1997 18:27:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:27:26 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705070127.VAA06690@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: Positive Nrg To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 21:27:19 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <01BC5A53.805A05A0@pittypat.mdm.mke.execpc.com> from "Hawkeye" at May 6, 97 05:49:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"IQ3Me.0.VP7.-fzRp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/2999 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: They comeout 2 at a time. One antimater, one mater. This might make a good energy source... See my page on antimater at: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/science/science.html look for it. I don't remember exactly where it is. > > If I understand, Virtual particals exist for a very short time, are very small, and go in and out of the space vac. (Not a true vac.) > > Am I right on this? I only remember reading a newspaper article on it. Anyone know more than this? > > -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 19:04:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA03475; Tue, 6 May 1997 18:57:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:57:42 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970506185741.00a6f3e8@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 18:57:42 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple OU Device Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qg4R71.0.Ds.M6-Rp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3000 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Most of the data between the replicators is exchanged on Greg's private mailing list. I would gladly share the details with you if it is OK with Greg (...or perhaps he could copy you with the email exchanges from the list's log...) For myself I can say that I have replicated Greg's lift with an 8" ramp (NdFeB) to a height of 2" with NO kinetic energy input. Furthermore I can vouch that Greg's setup doesn't suffer from the imperceivable "entrance pumping" like the TOMI device did. I have constructed 2 identical ramps yet I was unable to close the loop. The possibility of an egineering error on my part still remains. The only possible flaw with this device is the POSSIBILITY that the energy lost during the back attraction (ie. force integrated over distance) is equal to the work done by the forward attraction like the conventional theory predicts. I am unable to prove/disprove this mathematically since it is beyond my ability to come up with an equation of mechanical attraction VS. distance from a N-S magnetic gap (no it is not 1/d^3 like with a single magnetic dipole !!!). Perhaps one of you can help ? Another good question to consider is whether moving a ferromagnetic from 500 to 2000 gauss will always take the same amount of work independently of the force VS. distance distribution (a.k.a. F-d phase) ??? The is definitively false in the voltage VS. current analogy. PS. I am sorry Horace will have to suffer from reading this hopeless EM OU stuff... At 09:33 AM 5/6/97 -0800, you wrote: > >I don't doubt it either, but so far there is no indication of ou, only >gravity and magnetic potential wells acting together. I'd like to hear >from the replicators. Why aren't they posting? Come on replicators, let's >not be sheepish! 8^) > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 19:07:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA05265 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:07:37 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:07:37 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue May 6 19:07:29 1997 Received: from dub-img-1.compuserve.com (dub-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.206.131]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA04999 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:07:27 -0700 Received: by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA14176; Tue, 6 May 1997 22:06:52 -0400 Old-Date: 06 May 97 21:59:20 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970507015919_515664.456256_GHQ66-52@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 24 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Simple OU Device Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id VAA02611; Tue, 6 May 1997 21:59:01 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA03475; Tue, 6 May 1997 18:57:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:57:42 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970506185741.00a6f3e8@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 18:57:42 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple OU Device Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qg4R71.0.Ds.M6-Rp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3000 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Most of the data between the replicators is exchanged on Greg's private mailing list. I would gladly share the details with you if it is OK with Greg (...or perhaps he could copy you with the email exchanges from the list's log...) For myself I can say that I have replicated Greg's lift with an 8" ramp (NdFeB) to a height of 2" with NO kinetic energy input. Furthermore I can vouch that Greg's setup doesn't suffer from the imperceivable "entrance pumping" like the TOMI device did. I have constructed 2 identical ramps yet I was unable to close the loop. The possibility of an egineering error on my part still remains. The only possible flaw with this device is the POSSIBILITY that the energy lost during the back attraction (ie. force integrated over distance) is equal to the work done by the forward attraction like the conventional theory predicts. I am unable to prove/disprove this mathematically since it is beyond my ability to come up with an equation of mechanical attraction VS. distance from a N-S magnetic gap (no it is not 1/d^3 like with a single magnetic dipole !!!). Perhaps one of you can help ? Another good question to consider is whether moving a ferromagnetic from 500 to 2000 gauss will always take the same amount of work independently of the force VS. distance distribution (a.k.a. F-d phase) ??? The is definitively false in the voltage VS. current analogy. PS. I am sorry Horace will have to suffer from reading this hopeless EM OU stuff... At 09:33 AM 5/6/97 -0800, you wrote: > >I don't doubt it either, but so far there is no indication of ou, only >gravity and magnetic potential wells acting together. I'd like to hear >from the replicators. Why aren't they posting? Come on replicators, let's >not be sheepish! 8^) > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 23:18:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA25256; Tue, 6 May 1997 23:11:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 23:11:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 00:05:10 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Microwaves! In-Reply-To: <01BC5A53.72EDBE20@pittypat.mdm.mke.execpc.com> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"iHZ-H.0.YA6.qp1Sp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3001 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, aside from a *really powerful* K band police radar jammer, you could possibly research a way to use the klystron setup to produce useable amounts of steam for a steam engine powered automobile, or electrical generator. Any thoughts, anybody? John On Mon, 5 May 1997, Hawkeye wrote: > > I have a old microwave and I want to know what can I use it for? (Other than the norm. and the water-powered mower.) > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 23:19:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA02735 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 6 May 1997 23:19:44 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 23:19:44 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Tue May 6 23:19:37 1997 Received: from hil-img-2.compuserve.com (hil-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.177.132]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA02510 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 23:19:35 -0700 Received: by hil-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id CAA10796; Wed, 7 May 1997 02:19:04 -0400 Old-Date: 07 May 97 02:12:04 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970507061203_515664.456256_GHQ44-15@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 17 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Microwaves! Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id CAA05958; Wed, 7 May 1997 02:11:51 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA25256; Tue, 6 May 1997 23:11:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 23:11:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 00:05:10 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Microwaves! In-Reply-To: <01BC5A53.72EDBE20@pittypat.mdm.mke.execpc.com> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"iHZ-H.0.YA6.qp1Sp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3001 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well, aside from a *really powerful* K band police radar jammer, you could possibly research a way to use the klystron setup to produce useable amounts of steam for a steam engine powered automobile, or electrical generator. Any thoughts, anybody? John On Mon, 5 May 1997, Hawkeye wrote: > > I have a old microwave and I want to know what can I use it for? (Other than the norm. and the water-powered mower.) > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 6 23:55:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA05232; Tue, 6 May 1997 23:49:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 23:49:47 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 02:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970507024905_-433063324@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Subject: Re : Help about : Earth-Gyro Power Transducer Patent Resent-Message-ID: <"11O6Z3.0.ZH1.AO2Sp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3002 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 06/05/1997 22:36:47 , I wrote : << Hi All, Does someone has been able to download this patent at : http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=5313850 The graphics file of this patent at IBM site seems corrupted ( ?? ), I would be very grateful, If someone would sent this file to me... >> Hi All, Today, I have been able to download this patent, the IBM patent server work fine again. It is a very interesting patent, and I suggest you to read it..... Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5313850 : Earth/gyro power transducer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ INVENTORS:Finvold; Rodger C., San Diego, CA 921176 ABSTRACT: This specification describes a completely new and different concept, method, mechanization, apparatus configuration and sequencing procedure for obtaining commercially useful energy and power, namely: the use of a gyroscope to generate output power from the earth's stored inertial rotational (flywheel) energy by fixing the housing of the gyroscope to the earth and using the rotation of the earth relative to the gyroscope's spatially stable rotor/gimbal assembly to rotate the input shaft(s) of a power transducer(s). This provides a power-output stroke over a near 180o precession excursion (near pole-to-pole alignment) until the rotor spin axis of the gyroscope is nearly aligned with the polar axis of the earth. Re-precession torques are then created on the inner gimbal within the gyroscope to re-orient the rotor spin axis vector direction by re-precessing the rotor spin by somewhat more than 180o to the near polar alignment direction required for the resumption of power output in a manner requiring essentially zero energy and power to provide relatively continuous, but intermittent, power output generation along with a multi-unit assembly for producing continuous uninterrupted power output. An "Advanced Concept" based on rate gyro characteristics showing promise of enhanced performance is included. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 01:03:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA03892; Wed, 7 May 1997 01:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 01:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 19:29:05 +1000 Message-Id: <199705070929.TAA09608@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Microwaves! Resent-Message-ID: <"01ZNy.0.iy.hR3Sp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3003 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:40 PM 5/5/97 -0500, you wrote: >I have a old microwave and I want to know what can I use it for? (Other than the norm. and the water-powered mower.) > > >Try setting it up to zap police radar traps A story has done the circuit here where an Australian air force teck type took a radar microwave transmitter from an old canberra bomber and used to fry the victorian police speed traps might be a bit difficult now though with police using laser guns however. Geoff http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 01:11:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA12281 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 7 May 1997 01:11:03 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 01:11:03 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Wed May 7 01:10:58 1997 Received: from dub-img-4.compuserve.com (dub-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.206.134]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA12051 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 01:10:57 -0700 Received: by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id EAA09851; Wed, 7 May 1997 04:10:26 -0400 Old-Date: 07 May 97 04:02:49 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970507080248_515664.456256_JHM97-0@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 18 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Microwaves! Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id EAA22570; Wed, 7 May 1997 04:02:27 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA03892; Wed, 7 May 1997 01:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 01:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 19:29:05 +1000 Message-Id: <199705070929.TAA09608@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Microwaves! Resent-Message-ID: <"01ZNy.0.iy.hR3Sp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3003 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 05:40 PM 5/5/97 -0500, you wrote: >I have a old microwave and I want to know what can I use it for? (Other than the norm. and the water-powered mower.) > > >Try setting it up to zap police radar traps A story has done the circuit here where an Australian air force teck type took a radar microwave transmitter from an old canberra bomber and used to fry the victorian police speed traps might be a bit difficult now though with police using laser guns however. Geoff http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 02:33:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA01623; Wed, 7 May 1997 02:30:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 02:30:34 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 03:27:02 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Microwaves! In-Reply-To: <199705070929.TAA09608@main.murray.net.au> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uisag.0.DP.wk4Sp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3004 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > A story has done the circuit here where an Australian air force teck type > took a radar > microwave transmitter from an old canberra bomber and used to fry the victorian > police speed traps > > might be a bit difficult now though with police using laser guns however. In Alberta, the police are experimenting with the laser radar. I've seen plans, and toyed with some ideas for circuits that can modulate laser diodes, such as ones found in cd players, to jam that kind of radar. However, in many areas, at least in North America, both X and K band radar units are still in wide useage. As well, Ka band radar is used in certain models of the "photo radar". Microwave ovens work at a frequency that excites the water molecules in, well, anything that is placed inside the oven. I forget the frequency, but due to research I've done on radar and stealth tech, I know that it falls within the K microwave band. K band radar is more often used as "highway" radar, as it lends itself to the longer straightline distances. Consequently, if one knows that the police in ones area use K band radar (a fact that can be ascertained by taking a gander at a unit, and looking up it's specs in a library), one can jigger up an effective radar blaster, if one knows some high school electronics. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 02:40:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA09283 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 7 May 1997 02:40:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 02:40:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Wed May 7 02:39:56 1997 Received: from arl-img-3.compuserve.com (arl-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.217.133]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA09090 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 02:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id FAA20369; Wed, 7 May 1997 05:38:54 -0400 Old-Date: 07 May 97 05:32:47 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970507093246_515664.456256_JHM97-57@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 24 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Microwaves! Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by hil-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id FAA25360; Wed, 7 May 1997 05:32:35 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA01623; Wed, 7 May 1997 02:30:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 02:30:34 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 03:27:02 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Microwaves! In-Reply-To: <199705070929.TAA09608@main.murray.net.au> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uisag.0.DP.wk4Sp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3004 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > A story has done the circuit here where an Australian air force teck type > took a radar > microwave transmitter from an old canberra bomber and used to fry the victorian > police speed traps > > might be a bit difficult now though with police using laser guns however. In Alberta, the police are experimenting with the laser radar. I've seen plans, and toyed with some ideas for circuits that can modulate laser diodes, such as ones found in cd players, to jam that kind of radar. However, in many areas, at least in North America, both X and K band radar units are still in wide useage. As well, Ka band radar is used in certain models of the "photo radar". Microwave ovens work at a frequency that excites the water molecules in, well, anything that is placed inside the oven. I forget the frequency, but due to research I've done on radar and stealth tech, I know that it falls within the K microwave band. K band radar is more often used as "highway" radar, as it lends itself to the longer straightline distances. Consequently, if one knows that the police in ones area use K band radar (a fact that can be ascertained by taking a gander at a unit, and looking up it's specs in a library), one can jigger up an effective radar blaster, if one knows some high school electronics. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 03:15:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA11034 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 7 May 1997 03:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 03:15:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: Robin.Gilham@DataVoice.co.za Wed May 7 03:15:05 1997 Received: from cheetah.stb.dfs.co.za (cheetah.datavoice.co.za [196.3.229.1]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA11001 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 03:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by cheetah.stb.dfs.co.za with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC5AE0.31303BB0@cheetah.stb.dfs.co.za>; Wed, 7 May 1997 12:14:20 +0200 Message-ID: From: Robin Gilham To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Microwaves! Old-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 12:14:18 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 9 TEXT X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Out here in deep dark South Africa we have law prohibiting the Traffic Police from using Radar. Something about not been certain which car was speeding I think. No here they string two tubes across the surface of the road. When the car crosses the tubes then the air in the air is squeezed out and triggers a timer. What makes things even more peculiar is that they trap most times at the same place. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 06:32:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA23546; Wed, 7 May 1997 06:31:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 06:31:12 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:29:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199705071329.IAA11756@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Microwaves! Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"wIaeR.0.ql5.VG8Sp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3005 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > >Well, aside from a *really powerful* K band police radar jammer, you could >possibly research a way to use the klystron setup to produce useable >amounts of steam for a steam engine powered automobile, or electrical >generator. >Any thoughts, anybody? >John > > >On Mon, 5 May 1997, Hawkeye wrote: > >> >> I have a old microwave and I want to know what can I use it for? (Other than the norm. and the water-powered mower.) >> Most of the microwave ovens (in the U.S., anyway) use magnetrons and operate in the S band (~ 2.4 GHz). Some radio amateurs have successfully phase-locked a magnetron to 2304 MHz and use it with a dish antenna to operate what we call EME (Earth-Moon-Earth, or moonbounce) communication on this band. I haven't tried this yet but have an article of how to construct the phase-locking equipment. It isn't simple and it isn't cheap! Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 07:04:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA00987; Wed, 7 May 1997 06:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 06:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC5AB4.79435440@ip79.ts3.phx.inficad.com> From: Reed Huish To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: What's new with DePalma Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 21:40:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC5AB4.79B13140" Resent-Message-ID: <"2q4jB.0.JF.Ag8Sp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3006 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5AB4.79B13140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A word about the latest "bad press" about DePalma: These recent posts originated with ZENergy company, a former backer of=20 DePalma. These people have a good history of trying to exploit = Scientists=20 for there knowledge and then discarding them. When DePalma realized = this=20 pulled out from the deal they sent a group of Foriegn Nationals = (illegally)=20 to his home in New Zealand to confiscate the machines which they had = funded. This is not a forum for attack, but since the issue was raised, I will = clarify. Two of the principals of Zenergy appx. 4 years ago formed a = company to support DePalma's technology. They helped DePlama obtain New = Zealand citizenship and invested substantial funds in his technology. = After delays and excuses by DePalma, the investors had to obtain a court = order through proper legal channels to even see (let alone test) the = machine they funded. At best, the machine tested 70% efficiency. There = was no unique phenomena. DePalma's N-machine is not an over-unity = device nor ever has been. Tom Valone has written an excellent book on = this subject, called The Homopolar Handbook. =20 All the documentation, test reports, and contracts are available for = review if anyone desires to contact us for copies. If the machine really does work, lets see an independent lab report to = prove it. - Reed Huish Zenergy Corporation http://zenergy.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5AB4.79B13140 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhkOAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAQAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAABF40AQSAAQAcAAAAUkU6 IFdoYXQncyBuZXcgd2l0aCBEZVBhbG1hABkJAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcFAAYAFQAoADoAAgBYAQEggAMA DgAAAM0HBQAGABUAKAA6AAIAWAEBCYABACEAAAA0QUEwNkNEMDQ0QzZEMDExQjk3QzAwNDA5NTQw MjdDRgAHBwEDkAYAcAYAABQAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAA AAAAQAA5ACD/X9ugWrwBHgBwAAEAAAAcAAAAUkU6IFdoYXQncyBuZXcgd2l0aCBEZVBhbG1hAAIB cQABAAAAFgAAAAG8WqDbNdBsoFHGRBHQuXwAQJVAJ88AAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAf DAEAAAARAAAAcmVlZEB6ZW5lcmd5LmNvbQAAAAADAAYQqaBfHwMABxBYBAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAA QVdPUkRBQk9VVFRIRUxBVEVTVCJCQURQUkVTUyJBQk9VVERFUEFMTUE6VEhFU0VSRUNFTlRQT1NU U09SSUdJTkFURURXSVRIWkVORVJHWUNPTVBBTlksQUZPUk1FUkJBQ0tFUgAAAAACAQkQAQAAAOIE AADeBAAAKQcAAExaRnXj9zwO/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzID xgcTAoMyMxMPZjQDxQIAcHJCcRIic3RlbQKAfRcKgAjPCdk7F58yNTUPAoAKgQ2xC2BuZzEwhjMU IAsDbGkzNg3wrwtVFCIMARXwbxZwYwVAyEEgdwWwZCABoAhg4QVAdGhlIAtgFnAWYHAgImJhHXAV 8AeQc2IiHYVEZVAHQADAOq0KhVQeABHwIBegYwnwOQVAcG8WYAQgBbBpZx8LgB5BHXAD8B3wIFpF oQfAcmd5IAWgbQqwqG55LB2AIAIQcgeAEwXAHrBjayRRb2YgiwqFH8UuIKVwZW8LUJseEBHAdh4Q I/BnbwRwuybgBAB0BbAjQCTxdCgAhQuAZx3gbyBleAtQ9m8ioAYAYwiQAjAnwQQgDwqFJBEd4heg IGtub9J3JsBkZychbh1wHfF1A6BkBABjCxEokx4AbXkmACBXLDIfxSEBB0BpHnoiYR3wBAAlFnB1 bP8rgSHQHcEDUh3jDbAHQB3inyNAEfAhUSdBA2B1cCTiUkYh4WVnA6BOHkBptwIgB0AEICgDECbA ZwdAuGx5KSUWKNEvAmgDcPceEAuAB7NaLnEr4yjgBaB8bmYsghZwHeMAwSewbn0HkXcnsBGwMTQR wB1wZvZ1K/AJgC4KixtvAdAlFvcK+xLyDAFjAEAgoS8RLxH3K1AxwiQRdTCQKqIeQAGQ2ySgI9Bi HcEAkG4hMB3j1wQBClAdMGEEIHILcBHw+mQj0EkigS/QI1ALYAaB+nktYVQdQCgjHgEV8D/xPwUg M3Ik8TYQOAAjImFwxHB4JgA0IHkucBHg/x2AJ2AkBB1xI1YowkCgRNDbF0EfticEIBzRaCtQFzDn IzBCgjizZWwmgB1wH8HzC2AuMW9iAZA1rSmQKdD/LrAAgCewMkAr4guAJxAWYfsdcECgYhZgAHAp 0DEROTLvPdEDoC8CSEtBAYAkUQ2wzwtgFlAr0ykAY3UR8AQg/mIjQB/FI9BAQ0yTBbA1Mf8ewSjR SlVGUghwBUAdUSRR+x3wMhFnIsAcoSaABcAz4/sjUBHAbjgAM4Eo0icQA6D7EfAeECgmwDHBFzA4 AEgxfxZgNFA3eTE0OTVPUQVAYo8eYVGkWFdMtDcwJSjw9w3QOGApoWNCcSCxKxFA4qUrUCA5QGlx QLFwLDHPNWEiMC1hR6hOLVhWPfalA6BvJxByLV1BdCNA/Q2wdjhgHhArUAXAVnEFwN8RwFDhCeFC gjCBVldUYgL+dwUQAkAsQQORUIFJcCbA8yFRBuBvayHQA6Au800RPmoc4SPQLKAv0yCxIEjvA3Am oAbwCsFIK+Fk8i1hbzu1O7cb2z1iQUHhMLNv/1CgXgEBkDMyUaEeYhegR1L+cyPRS1ICIUEgHPBF gSsR/ycAC3ALYAJgHhAqohegYSD3B9EGkCvReVdyDbAAkB8BvzaFP0EFQFCwKpMFoHAIkNxzLjx/ PYBoXElDBFhW/y5iNDBq0TgSBbA/cVcRZaH/VtEDkQuADbAmgDlRIVFuEX9sFSjCHKEnESKgOZY7 tS2nB/AJ4B1wSHUEAGg7tXctcERGCFByR1EzI3qHaGECQHA6Ly9LwSMSLi8jYWhcO7UWwQB/gAAA AwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzAgXFgRnVq8AUAACDAg/1/boFq8AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAA AAAAAwANNP03AABU8A== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5AB4.79B13140-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 07:10:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA30063 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 7 May 1997 07:10:50 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:10:50 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Wed May 7 07:10:47 1997 Received: from hil-img-3.compuserve.com (hil-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.177.133]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA29845 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 07:10:46 -0700 Received: by hil-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id KAA27814; Wed, 7 May 1997 10:10:16 -0400 Old-Date: 07 May 97 10:02:17 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970507140216_515664.456256_JHM113-46@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 19 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 RE: What's new with DePalma Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by hil-img-9.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id KAA13722; Wed, 7 May 1997 10:02:03 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA00987; Wed, 7 May 1997 06:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 06:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC5AB4.79435440@ip79.ts3.phx.inficad.com> From: Reed Huish To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: What's new with DePalma Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 21:40:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC5AB4.79B13140" Resent-Message-ID: <"2q4jB.0.JF.Ag8Sp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3006 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5AB4.79B13140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A word about the latest "bad press" about DePalma: These recent posts originated with ZENergy company, a former backer of=20 DePalma. These people have a good history of trying to exploit = Scientists=20 for there knowledge and then discarding them. When DePalma realized = this=20 pulled out from the deal they sent a group of Foriegn Nationals = (illegally)=20 to his home in New Zealand to confiscate the machines which they had = funded. This is not a forum for attack, but since the issue was raised, I will = clarify. Two of the principals of Zenergy appx. 4 years ago formed a = company to support DePalma's technology. They helped DePlama obtain New = Zealand citizenship and invested substantial funds in his technology. = After delays and excuses by DePalma, the investors had to obtain a court = order through proper legal channels to even see (let alone test) the = machine they funded. At best, the machine tested 70% efficiency. There = was no unique phenomena. DePalma's N-machine is not an over-unity = device nor ever has been. Tom Valone has written an excellent book on = this subject, called The Homopolar Handbook. =20 All the documentation, test reports, and contracts are available for = review if anyone desires to contact us for copies. If the machine really does work, lets see an independent lab report to = prove it. - Reed Huish Zenergy Corporation http://zenergy.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5AB4.79B13140 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhkOAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAQAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAABF40AQSAAQAcAAAAUkU6 IFdoYXQncyBuZXcgd2l0aCBEZVBhbG1hABkJAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcFAAYAFQAoADoAAgBYAQEggAMA DgAAAM0HBQAGABUAKAA6AAIAWAEBCYABACEAAAA0QUEwNkNEMDQ0QzZEMDExQjk3QzAwNDA5NTQw MjdDRgAHBwEDkAYAcAYAABQAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAA AAAAQAA5ACD/X9ugWrwBHgBwAAEAAAAcAAAAUkU6IFdoYXQncyBuZXcgd2l0aCBEZVBhbG1hAAIB cQABAAAAFgAAAAG8WqDbNdBsoFHGRBHQuXwAQJVAJ88AAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAf DAEAAAARAAAAcmVlZEB6ZW5lcmd5LmNvbQAAAAADAAYQqaBfHwMABxBYBAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAA QVdPUkRBQk9VVFRIRUxBVEVTVCJCQURQUkVTUyJBQk9VVERFUEFMTUE6VEhFU0VSRUNFTlRQT1NU U09SSUdJTkFURURXSVRIWkVORVJHWUNPTVBBTlksQUZPUk1FUkJBQ0tFUgAAAAACAQkQAQAAAOIE AADeBAAAKQcAAExaRnXj9zwO/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzID xgcTAoMyMxMPZjQDxQIAcHJCcRIic3RlbQKAfRcKgAjPCdk7F58yNTUPAoAKgQ2xC2BuZzEwhjMU IAsDbGkzNg3wrwtVFCIMARXwbxZwYwVAyEEgdwWwZCABoAhg4QVAdGhlIAtgFnAWYHAgImJhHXAV 8AeQc2IiHYVEZVAHQADAOq0KhVQeABHwIBegYwnwOQVAcG8WYAQgBbBpZx8LgB5BHXAD8B3wIFpF oQfAcmd5IAWgbQqwqG55LB2AIAIQcgeAEwXAHrBjayRRb2YgiwqFH8UuIKVwZW8LUJseEBHAdh4Q I/BnbwRwuybgBAB0BbAjQCTxdCgAhQuAZx3gbyBleAtQ9m8ioAYAYwiQAjAnwQQgDwqFJBEd4heg IGtub9J3JsBkZychbh1wHfF1A6BkBABjCxEokx4AbXkmACBXLDIfxSEBB0BpHnoiYR3wBAAlFnB1 bP8rgSHQHcEDUh3jDbAHQB3inyNAEfAhUSdBA2B1cCTiUkYh4WVnA6BOHkBptwIgB0AEICgDECbA ZwdAuGx5KSUWKNEvAmgDcPceEAuAB7NaLnEr4yjgBaB8bmYsghZwHeMAwSewbn0HkXcnsBGwMTQR wB1wZvZ1K/AJgC4KixtvAdAlFvcK+xLyDAFjAEAgoS8RLxH3K1AxwiQRdTCQKqIeQAGQ2ySgI9Bi HcEAkG4hMB3j1wQBClAdMGEEIHILcBHw+mQj0EkigS/QI1ALYAaB+nktYVQdQCgjHgEV8D/xPwUg M3Ik8TYQOAAjImFwxHB4JgA0IHkucBHg/x2AJ2AkBB1xI1YowkCgRNDbF0EfticEIBzRaCtQFzDn IzBCgjizZWwmgB1wH8HzC2AuMW9iAZA1rSmQKdD/LrAAgCewMkAr4guAJxAWYfsdcECgYhZgAHAp 0DEROTLvPdEDoC8CSEtBAYAkUQ2wzwtgFlAr0ykAY3UR8AQg/mIjQB/FI9BAQ0yTBbA1Mf8ewSjR SlVGUghwBUAdUSRR+x3wMhFnIsAcoSaABcAz4/sjUBHAbjgAM4Eo0icQA6D7EfAeECgmwDHBFzA4 AEgxfxZgNFA3eTE0OTVPUQVAYo8eYVGkWFdMtDcwJSjw9w3QOGApoWNCcSCxKxFA4qUrUCA5QGlx QLFwLDHPNWEiMC1hR6hOLVhWPfalA6BvJxByLV1BdCNA/Q2wdjhgHhArUAXAVnEFwN8RwFDhCeFC gjCBVldUYgL+dwUQAkAsQQORUIFJcCbA8yFRBuBvayHQA6Au800RPmoc4SPQLKAv0yCxIEjvA3Am oAbwCsFIK+Fk8i1hbzu1O7cb2z1iQUHhMLNv/1CgXgEBkDMyUaEeYhegR1L+cyPRS1ICIUEgHPBF gSsR/ycAC3ALYAJgHhAqohegYSD3B9EGkCvReVdyDbAAkB8BvzaFP0EFQFCwKpMFoHAIkNxzLjx/ PYBoXElDBFhW/y5iNDBq0TgSBbA/cVcRZaH/VtEDkQuADbAmgDlRIVFuEX9sFSjCHKEnESKgOZY7 tS2nB/AJ4B1wSHUEAGg7tXctcERGCFByR1EzI3qHaGECQHA6Ly9LwSMSLi8jYWhcO7UWwQB/gAAA AwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzAgXFgRnVq8AUAACDAg/1/boFq8AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAA AAAAAwANNP03AABU8A== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5AB4.79B13140-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 10:00:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA23644; Wed, 7 May 1997 09:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33707BA7.4D7D@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 05:55:03 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: egel@main.murray.net.au Subject: The Smith coil Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"81Hsc3.0.Mn5.k5BSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3007 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Geoff and all, Here is some info about the Smith Coil > The sort information I am looking for is construction type details. > like what size wire,spacing, diameter of windings ,type of winding > formers(plastic cardboard wood ect, vanish or not vanish ect ,frequency > required to make these > things do as others seem to have claimed. > power supply and what I can expect to happen when they are constucted. > > Like I said before any help gratefully received. CONSTRUCTION Central core: ferrite, the standard ferrite rods "an inch and a half in diameter and nine or ten inches in length". "The coil winding is composed of insulated wire, either double cotton covered or enameled. Generally, the size of the wire has been given as #18 gauge copper, although aluminum, iron, and even silver have also been used. The coil is caduceus wound-- caducueus meaning that it is wound with two wires-- the wires opposite each other around the core, and these two wires crossing each other on two opposite sides of the core's diameter with each complete turn. Hence, the coil when created will have two rows of bumps on it. These bumps willl be opposite one another and on each side of the coil, formed where the two wires cross. Great care should be taken in making this winding exact, so that these "crossovers" (bumps) remain in a straight line on opposite sides of the core. Another way of winding the coil can be used by applying additional care and forming a long, slow, two-sided spiral of these bumps around the core. As far as I have been able to ascertain, the coil is but one layer of wire thick. I have heard of no multilayered Smith Coils... ...It is readily understandible that this type of coil can be wound only by hand because the winder continually needs to keep the "twist" out of the two winding wires. This twist comes from the winding process itself. It proves much easier to keep the winding wires straight if two persons wind the coil together-- one doing the winding of the coil, the other "unwinding" the twist!... EFFECTS "...The coils are most adaptable in the radio and/or electronic fields. In the radio it had been indicated that the coil is adptable for both transmission and reception of electromagnetic signals of both terrestrai land extraterrestrial origin. I have never witnessed the actual rcxeption of extraterrestrail signals but I have listened to tape recordings..the messages recieved were not in words but in sounds of various lengths, like a code... ...A man who has had much first-hand experience with the Smith Coil in terrestrial radio work, and who was for some time in direct communication with Mr. Smith, observed, "I use mine as an antenna on 20 meters. I communicate with stations in all parts of the USA and Canada with it-- using it ONLY as an antenna, I even took my other antennas down so they would not be radiating. It has an infinite number of dips when connected to a grid dip meter. Ordinarily, a coil has a dip on its fundamental, on the half wave and the third harmonic. But this one had an infinite number, randomly spaced in the spectrum. The Smith coil has zero impedance! And infinite resonance! Thiss is impossible-- but true! It acts as a a dead short on any other frequency than its own! It acts a dead short on a reciever. One coil cannot be coupled to another, by RF, AF, or anything. One will not pick up the signal from another one! This startled me. To be honest, I have been baffled by it ever since I got it!" There's a great deal more, but this gives the gist of it. Hope this helps! Fred Ref "The Smith Coil" by Gaston Burridge, Psychic Observer, V. XXXV, n. 5, p. 410 Thanks to Reed Huish of Zenergy for supplying the ref! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 10:05:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA24899 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 7 May 1997 10:05:14 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:05:14 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Wed May 7 10:05:11 1997 Received: from dub-img-10.compuserve.com (dub-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.206.140]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA24676 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 10:05:07 -0700 Received: by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id NAA25040; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:04:36 -0400 Old-Date: 07 May 97 12:57:06 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970507165705_515664.456256_IHJ44-30@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 20 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 The Smith coil Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id MAA05703; Wed, 7 May 1997 12:56:48 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA23644; Wed, 7 May 1997 09:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33707BA7.4D7D@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 05:55:03 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: egel@main.murray.net.au Subject: The Smith coil Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"81Hsc3.0.Mn5.k5BSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3007 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Geoff and all, Here is some info about the Smith Coil > The sort information I am looking for is construction type details. > like what size wire,spacing, diameter of windings ,type of winding > formers(plastic cardboard wood ect, vanish or not vanish ect ,frequency > required to make these > things do as others seem to have claimed. > power supply and what I can expect to happen when they are constucted. > > Like I said before any help gratefully received. CONSTRUCTION Central core: ferrite, the standard ferrite rods "an inch and a half in diameter and nine or ten inches in length". "The coil winding is composed of insulated wire, either double cotton covered or enameled. Generally, the size of the wire has been given as #18 gauge copper, although aluminum, iron, and even silver have also been used. The coil is caduceus wound-- caducueus meaning that it is wound with two wires-- the wires opposite each other around the core, and these two wires crossing each other on two opposite sides of the core's diameter with each complete turn. Hence, the coil when created will have two rows of bumps on it. These bumps willl be opposite one another and on each side of the coil, formed where the two wires cross. Great care should be taken in making this winding exact, so that these "crossovers" (bumps) remain in a straight line on opposite sides of the core. Another way of winding the coil can be used by applying additional care and forming a long, slow, two-sided spiral of these bumps around the core. As far as I have been able to ascertain, the coil is but one layer of wire thick. I have heard of no multilayered Smith Coils... ...It is readily understandible that this type of coil can be wound only by hand because the winder continually needs to keep the "twist" out of the two winding wires. This twist comes from the winding process itself. It proves much easier to keep the winding wires straight if two persons wind the coil together-- one doing the winding of the coil, the other "unwinding" the twist!... EFFECTS "...The coils are most adaptable in the radio and/or electronic fields. In the radio it had been indicated that the coil is adptable for both transmission and reception of electromagnetic signals of both terrestrai land extraterrestrial origin. I have never witnessed the actual rcxeption of extraterrestrail signals but I have listened to tape recordings..the messages recieved were not in words but in sounds of various lengths, like a code... ...A man who has had much first-hand experience with the Smith Coil in terrestrial radio work, and who was for some time in direct communication with Mr. Smith, observed, "I use mine as an antenna on 20 meters. I communicate with stations in all parts of the USA and Canada with it-- using it ONLY as an antenna, I even took my other antennas down so they would not be radiating. It has an infinite number of dips when connected to a grid dip meter. Ordinarily, a coil has a dip on its fundamental, on the half wave and the third harmonic. But this one had an infinite number, randomly spaced in the spectrum. The Smith coil has zero impedance! And infinite resonance! Thiss is impossible-- but true! It acts as a a dead short on any other frequency than its own! It acts a dead short on a reciever. One coil cannot be coupled to another, by RF, AF, or anything. One will not pick up the signal from another one! This startled me. To be honest, I have been baffled by it ever since I got it!" There's a great deal more, but this gives the gist of it. Hope this helps! Fred Ref "The Smith Coil" by Gaston Burridge, Psychic Observer, V. XXXV, n. 5, p. 410 Thanks to Reed Huish of Zenergy for supplying the ref! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 10:36:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA26301; Wed, 7 May 1997 10:19:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:19:26 -0700 Message-Id: <33708284.6541@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 06:28:31 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Subject: Vote of appreciation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MqPu_2.0.pQ6.TcBSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3008 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, Just got around to reading your email of a while back: > Those of us not frozen concrete or by our budgets, I believe, enjoy > Horace, Fred and others. Who knows when the creative mind will one day > link something Fred mentioned with a posting from Horace and change the > world. Thanks a lot for recognizing the true value of cross-pollination and creative synergy! Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 10:42:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA30210 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 7 May 1997 10:42:08 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:42:08 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Wed May 7 10:42:05 1997 Received: from dub-img-5.compuserve.com (dub-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.206.135]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA29987 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 10:42:03 -0700 Received: by dub-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id NAA19234; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:42:02 -0400 Old-Date: 07 May 97 13:34:57 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970507173456_515664.456256_IHH70-4@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 24 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Vote of appreciation Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id NAA19621; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:34:22 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA26301; Wed, 7 May 1997 10:19:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:19:26 -0700 Message-Id: <33708284.6541@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 06:28:31 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Subject: Vote of appreciation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MqPu_2.0.pQ6.TcBSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3008 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Greg, Just got around to reading your email of a while back: > Those of us not frozen concrete or by our budgets, I believe, enjoy > Horace, Fred and others. Who knows when the creative mind will one day > link something Fred mentioned with a posting from Horace and change the > world. Thanks a lot for recognizing the true value of cross-pollination and creative synergy! Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 13:01:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA16963; Wed, 7 May 1997 12:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 12:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705071946.PAA20611@marlin3.me.mtu.edu> Subject: tte To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:46:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "S. Marcel Lizotte" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sA0B62.0.z84.gnDSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3009 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: unsubscribe freenrg-l lizotte@mtu.edu -- ************************************************************************** S. Marcel Lizotte e-mail: lizotte@mtu.edu (steven) Quote to live by: Michigan Technological University "We cannot solve today's Fourth Year Scholar of problems with the same Mechanical Engineering level of thinking that created them" -Albert Einstein ************************************************************************** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 13:02:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA20907 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:02:58 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:02:58 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Wed May 7 13:02:54 1997 Received: from arl-img-7.compuserve.com (arl-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.217.137]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA20684 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:02:48 -0700 Received: by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA22087; Wed, 7 May 1997 16:02:17 -0400 Old-Date: 07 May 97 15:55:38 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970507195537_515664.456256_IHS9-60@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 20 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 tte Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by dub-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id PAA13082; Wed, 7 May 1997 15:55:21 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA16963; Wed, 7 May 1997 12:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 12:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705071946.PAA20611@marlin3.me.mtu.edu> Subject: tte To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:46:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "S. Marcel Lizotte" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sA0B62.0.z84.gnDSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3009 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com unsubscribe freenrg-l lizotte@mtu.edu -- ************************************************************************** S. Marcel Lizotte e-mail: lizotte@mtu.edu (steven) Quote to live by: Michigan Technological University "We cannot solve today's Fourth Year Scholar of problems with the same Mechanical Engineering level of thinking that created them" -Albert Einstein ************************************************************************** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 13:13:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA18870; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705072055.PAA26103@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: The Smith coil Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:57:18 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6_dSP3.0.lc4.SzDSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3010 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I *still* say this sounds a lot more like a Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna than not. "I don't want the world -- I just want your half." --T.M.B.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 13:16:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA22784 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:16:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:16:46 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Wed May 7 13:16:36 1997 Received: from dub-img-4.compuserve.com (dub-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.206.134]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA22491 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:16:33 -0700 Received: by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA21268; Wed, 7 May 1997 16:16:31 -0400 Old-Date: 07 May 97 16:09:20 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970507200919_515664.456256_BHP82-14@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 21 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: The Smith coil Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA05611; Wed, 7 May 1997 16:09:02 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA18870; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705072055.PAA26103@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: The Smith coil Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:57:18 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6_dSP3.0.lc4.SzDSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3010 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I *still* say this sounds a lot more like a Contrawound Toroidal Helical Antenna than not. "I don't want the world -- I just want your half." --T.M.B.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 13:29:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA24207; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:25:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:25:49 -0700 Message-ID: <33710F44.36BC@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 16:24:52 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What's new with DePalma References: <199705062230.SAA17402@mail2.wilmington.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EbpQL1.0.3w5.BLESp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3012 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: tmwsiy@mail2.wilmington.net wrote: > > FIrst of all the Sunburst Machine operates on exactly the same > principles as Tewari's machine (which operates on DePalma's > principles) his (Tewari's) latest machies are the only ones built on these > principles which offer overunity in the strictest sense (i.e. more > electrical output than input). > In the case of the Sunburst machine in > a strict sense, It was not overunity because it required power for > the electro-magnet (all the new machines use permanent magnets) > and the A.C. drive motor. But the DIFFERENCE in energy > required to merely spin the charged electromagnet with an open > circuit and that required when closing the loop and generating 2 or 3 kilowatts > was about a 4 or 5 to 1 ratio out to in. But a number of people have build homopolar generators using permenent magnets, and these have not reached 100% efficiency, much less greater efficiencies. It seems that homopolar generators are fully conservative. Are you claiming that this is not the case? > I am not at liberty to discuss DePalma's current plans other than is > well and in New Zealand. > > A word about the latest "bad press" about DePalma: > These recent posts originated with ZENergy company, a former backer of > DePalma. These people have a good history of trying to exploit Scientists > for there knowledge and then discarding them. When DePalma realized this > pulled out from the deal they sent a group of Foriegn Nationals (illegally) > to his home in New Zealand to confiscate the machines which they had funded. Not all the 'press' about DePalma has come from ZENergy I beleive. There are a number of permanent magnet homopolar generators that have been very carefully tested. > I nor Dr. DePalma is in the buisness of providing plans for > over-unity machines at risk of being shot, however as I said all the > information required to build such a machine is contained in the > papers and in the excepts from Tewari's book. > > Eddie In your opinion, what is it about a permanent magnet homopolar generator that allows it to operate at efficiencies greater than 100%? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 13:45:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA21566; Wed, 7 May 1997 13:20:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:20:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33710DC2.7B7D@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 16:18:26 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LIGHTNING References: <970503111849_-97920586@emout11.mail.aol.com> <336BE3CD.1503@bciu.k12.pa.us> <336E106D.6DD4@tiac.net> <3371d48b.27121895@mail.eisa.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EoAjA2.0.tG5.vFESp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3011 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Mon, 05 May 1997 09:53:01 -0700, Bob Shannon wrote: > [snip] > >Some sort of AC inverters? What switching devices could possibly > >withstand the voltages found in a lightning bolt? > > > How about simply not withstanding the voltages? At present we put > lightening rods on our buildings. Why not put a few turns in the cable > of the conductor that goes to ground, and use it as the primary of a > transformer. Then draw energy off from the secondary. The voltage drop > over the primary would be low, but the current is quite high. You > wouldn't tap a large percentage of the available power, but if your > lightening rod is the only one, mounted on the highest object for > miles around, then you should get a fair few strikes during the storm > season. More a fun approach than practical, I know :). I agree that inductivly coupling the live bolt to a load appears to be the most practical solution, but the insulation resistance between primary and secondary is close to insignificant in the face of a bolt that just jumpped a arc a few thousand feet or more. Lightning often fails to take what we think is the path of least resistance (through the primary to ground) and may well arc over to the secondary. UL / CSA approvals could be a problem. ;-> Would the reactance of a primary coil with enough turns to reach a safe step down ratio be high enough for the high frequancy content of a lightning bolt to wish to seek some other path than the primary circuit? As long as we are thinking about lightning, we might want to speculate a bit about the phenomena of 'whistlers' and the theory of their production by troposhearic ducting (yeah, right, I but this one, it sounds like star treknobabble to me!). If the ducting theory of whistler generation is correct, an artificial system might duct a high percentage of the bolts energy and deliver it in a highly coherent form that would be easier to enginner than the bolt itself. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 15:43:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA07399; Wed, 7 May 1997 15:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33710119.5591@bciu.k12.pa.us> Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 18:24:27 -0400 From: "O'Connor" Reply-To: poconnor@bciu.k12.pa.us X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Microwaves! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BNUtx2.0.Xp1.X6GSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3013 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is really corny, but it has to be said: I suggest that you use the microwave to make NACHOS!!! YUM! -Shannon From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 18:31:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA29135; Wed, 7 May 1997 18:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <337129F6.6227@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 10:48:46 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple OU Device Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8W9dB2.0.477.3gISp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3014 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Just a short note to all those suggestions to use multi straight ramps or curved return tracks to close the loop. I have tried various schemes without success. What I have found is that with any angled scheme, the ball will not be able to stay on the "Neutral Line" of side to side attraction between the magnet assys and will loose energy because of the much larger side ways attractions very quickly. Seems angled schemes are doomed to fail. The ball must stay on the "Neutral Line". -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 18:53:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA01788; Wed, 7 May 1997 18:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:39:53 -0700 (PDT) From: tmwsiy@mail2.wilmington.net Message-Id: <199705080138.VAA04172@mail2.wilmington.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 20 Jan 1980 21:44:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: DePalma discussion continued... CC: tmwsiy@wilmington.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"xDKCJ2.0.oR.axISp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3015 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I will respond to Bob Shannon and Reed Huish in one post... < Reed Huish > wrote: > This is not a forum for attack, but since the issue was raised, I will clarify. Two of the principals of Zenergy appx. 4 years ago formed a company to support DePalma's technology. They helped ... I will be finished talking about the legal battle that ensued from DePalma's involvement with members of ZENergy by stating that if anyone from thier former company sets foot on New Zealand soil they are at risk of being arrested by standing court order over the confiscation of the machine. Which was later sold to members of New Zealand mafia. > All the documentation, test reports, and contracts are available for review if >anyone desires to contact us for copies.If the machine really does work, lets > see an independent lab report to prove it. Paramahamsa Tewari has built machines and performed tests on the latest generation of N-machines with unity occuring at about 4000 rpm with a 4-1 out to in ratio at 6000 rpm Someone who works for the atomic energy board of India is pretty independant from DePalma. Bob Shannon wrote: >In your opinion, what is it about a permanent magnet homopolar >generator that allows it to operate at efficiencies greater than 100%? There is a newly discovered principle called compensation that allows for the "drag" ensued by the elctricity being genertated to be compensated for (has to be series machine like N-1 and after) by allowing electricity to flow opposite the original direction. this creates a similar effect to coaxial cable which the purpose is to cancel out any field created by the electricty in the center wire by the counterpoise in the metal "sheath". The machine does not respond any differently in regards to power consumption with this configuration. ALso a nice side benifit is the voltage doubling with each set of these compensators one uses. I hope this helps... Eddie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 18:59:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA03095; Wed, 7 May 1997 18:49:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:49:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33712FCE.D4A@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 11:13:42 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What's new with DePalma References: <199705062230.SAA17402@mail2.wilmington.net> <33710F44.36BC@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rd7lj.0.Hm.r4JSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3016 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > But a number of people have build homopolar generators using permenent > magnets, and these have not reached 100% efficiency, much less greater > efficiencies. > > It seems that homopolar generators are fully conservative. Are you > claiming that this is not the case? > > In your opinion, what is it about a permanent magnet homopolar generator > that allows it to operate at efficiencies greater than 100%? Hi Bob, I have also reviewed the web site and have found several inaccurate descriptions. I would support your comments on Homopolars, they are not OU. The generated current and its related magnetic field causes source interactions that are not OU. Nothing I saw or read on the web site could go OU. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 19:18:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA09098 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 7 May 1997 19:18:56 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 19:18:56 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Wed May 7 19:18:51 1997 Received: from arl-img-4.compuserve.com (arl-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.217.134]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA08866 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 19:18:49 -0700 Received: by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA23681; Wed, 7 May 1997 22:18:17 -0400 Old-Date: 07 May 97 21:49:41 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970508014940_515664.456256_JHN51-62@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 22 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 DePalma discussion continued... Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id VAA29056; Wed, 7 May 1997 21:49:23 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA01788; Wed, 7 May 1997 18:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:39:53 -0700 (PDT) From: tmwsiy@mail2.wilmington.net Message-Id: <199705080138.VAA04172@mail2.wilmington.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 20 Jan 1980 21:44:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: DePalma discussion continued... CC: tmwsiy@wilmington.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"xDKCJ2.0.oR.axISp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3015 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I will respond to Bob Shannon and Reed Huish in one post... < Reed Huish > wrote: > This is not a forum for attack, but since the issue was raised, I will clarify. Two of the principals of Zenergy appx. 4 years ago formed a company to support DePalma's technology. They helped ... I will be finished talking about the legal battle that ensued from DePalma's involvement with members of ZENergy by stating that if anyone from thier former company sets foot on New Zealand soil they are at risk of being arrested by standing court order over the confiscation of the machine. Which was later sold to members of New Zealand mafia. > All the documentation, test reports, and contracts are available for review if >anyone desires to contact us for copies.If the machine really does work, lets > see an independent lab report to prove it. Paramahamsa Tewari has built machines and performed tests on the latest generation of N-machines with unity occuring at about 4000 rpm with a 4-1 out to in ratio at 6000 rpm Someone who works for the atomic energy board of India is pretty independant from DePalma. Bob Shannon wrote: >In your opinion, what is it about a permanent magnet homopolar >generator that allows it to operate at efficiencies greater than 100%? There is a newly discovered principle called compensation that allows for the "drag" ensued by the elctricity being genertated to be compensated for (has to be series machine like N-1 and after) by allowing electricity to flow opposite the original direction. this creates a similar effect to coaxial cable which the purpose is to cancel out any field created by the electricty in the center wire by the counterpoise in the metal "sheath". The machine does not respond any differently in regards to power consumption with this configuration. ALso a nice side benifit is the voltage doubling with each set of these compensators one uses. I hope this helps... Eddie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 19:27:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA06702; Wed, 7 May 1997 19:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 19:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3372204D.5EC9@dove.net.au> Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 11:49:49 -0700 From: "Glenville T. Sawyer" Reply-To: gsawyer@dove.net.au Organization: Outback Communications - Lighting, Theatre Concerts and Special Events. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Microwaves! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HFV3l2.0.ee1.mWJSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3017 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I should clarify what the Australian "Speed" RADAR (used) to be .. Most of the systems operated in the 10 Gig region. Domestic and Commercial Microwave ovens operate in the 2.3-2.6 Gig part of the spectrum, I do not think that you would achieve a great deal of success attempting to "fool" a Fuzz RADAR with a modified microwave. Yes we heard the story too, I filed it in the same basket as the ... " There was this couple out on a lonely road .. not too far from here .. and the guy gets out and tells his Girl that he will be back shortly ... Well he is gone for ages ... then She hears a slow Thump-Thump-Thump on the roof ....... " - Yes folks EVEN WE had the " Headless Boyfriend " yarn to grow up with too !. As far as "Laser" speed cameras and etc, did you realise that a greatly amplified "Remote Control Tester" - can and DOES provide a usable indication of an upcoming "speed trap" ? Something to ponder while not thinking directly about FREE-NRG ! Regards, Glenville. -- Rgds, Glenville T. Sawyer ( Glen ) gsawyer@dove.net.au http://dove.net.au/~gsawyer - visit and sign the guestbook Lighting, Concerts, Special Events & Extra Special Effects From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 21:14:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA25309 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 7 May 1997 21:14:21 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:14:21 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Wed May 7 21:14:15 1997 Received: from dub-img-10.compuserve.com (dub-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.206.140]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA25033 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 21:14:13 -0700 Received: by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA21757; Thu, 8 May 1997 00:13:42 -0400 Old-Date: 08 May 97 00:09:48 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970508040947_515664.456256_IHL113-39@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 23 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 RE: DePalma discussion continued... Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by dub-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA16572; Thu, 8 May 1997 00:09:36 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA24184; Wed, 7 May 1997 21:06:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:06:21 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC5B2A.DCD48300@ip134.ts6.phx.inficad.com> From: Reed Huish To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: DePalma discussion continued... Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:02:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC5B2A.DCE54BE0" Resent-Message-ID: <"DKo7s2.0.kv5.y4LSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3018 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5B2A.DCE54BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >I will be finished talking about the legal battle that ensued from=20 >DePalma's involvement with members of ZENergy by stating that if=20 >anyone from thier former company sets foot on New Zealand soil they=20 >are at risk of being arrested by standing court order over the=20 >confiscation of the machine. Which was later sold to members of New = >Zealand mafia.=20 Eddie: Actually, we have a letter from the New Zealand police which states that = no charges have ever existed. I would be happy to fax you a copy of the = letter, if desired. The prototype was advertised in New Energy News and = other energy journals, which was sold for US$5,000 for scrap value = (since it didn't work). We later found that we are the latest on a list = of at least a dozen investors that have put money into DePalma's = technology with no working (over-unity) machine. I would love to see = independent, certified test reports. Please post them! Or, I would be = happy to post our test results. N-machines were hot in the 80's. Numerous experimenters have tried to = reproduce DePalma's claims, but no one seems to be able to get around = the problem of back torque. My partner, Mike Fisher, met Tewari in = India in 1993. He appears to be a man of great integrity, however, he = did not demonstrate an over-unity device at that time. He claims to = have an o-u device, but we are unaware of any independent test results = which prove such. If you have any, please post them for all to see. Ironically enough, the picture of N-machine on DePalma's web-site (the = N-1) is stated to be over-unity, but DePalma told Mike that this version = never was o-u. And Prof. Kincholoe of Stamford University confirmed = this. We would love to see an o-u N-machine, but we fear that unless = the problem of back torque (Lenz's law) can be overcome, this will never = be realized. DePalma claims that his stator-less machine is the = solution, however, as soon as the output circuit is closed, this output = circuit becomes, in effect, the stator, and as soon as current is drawn, = the proportional back torque is developed at the shaft. Therefore = preventing the phenomenon of over-unity. The field of new energy would be served greater if the facts about free = energy technologies were discussed and this forum not used for character = assassination. - Reed Huish Zenergy Corp http://zenergy.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5B2A.DCE54BE0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjMEAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAkAAAAUkU6 IERlUGFsbWEgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBjb250aW51ZWQuLi4AXAwBBYADAA4AAADNBwUABwAVAAIAOQAD ADMBASCAAwAOAAAAzQcFAAcAFAArABAAAwAyAQEJgAEAIQAAADRBNkJDQ0ZDMEFDN0QwMTFCOTdD MDA0MDk1NDAyN0NGADoHAQOQBgBgCAAAFAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAA AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAwEKqtmRbvAEeAHAAAQAAACQAAABSRTogRGVQYWxtYSBkaXNjdXNzaW9u IGNvbnRpbnVlZC4uLgACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvFtktmf8zGtLxwoR0Ll8AECVQCfPAAAeAB4MAQAA AAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEQAAAHJlZWRAemVuZXJneS5jb20AAAAAAwAGEAaZmtgDAAcQ UwcAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAElXSUxMQkVGSU5JU0hFRFRBTEtJTkdBQk9VVFRIRUxFR0FMQkFUVExF VEhBVEVOU1VFREZST01ERVBBTE1BU0lOVk9MVkVNRU5UV0lUSE1FTUJFUlNPRlpFTkVSR1lCWVNU QVQAAAAAAgEJEAEAAADJBgAAxQYAAKULAABMWkZ1wvYrp/8ACgEPAhUCpAPkBesCgwBQEwNUAgBj aArAc2V07jIGAAbDAoMyA8YHEwKDujMTDX0KgAjPCdk7Ff94MjU1AoAKgQ2xC2BuMGcxMDMUIAsD bGm8MzYN8AtVEvIMAWMAQFwgPgtGFCIMAXADYHRTBZAFQEkgA/BsAyBiWGUgZguABABoCYAgyQGQ bGsLgGcgAaAIYIUFQHQdsCBsZWcHQL0dIGECQB8QHsEfgCAJ8O5zClAd0ANSIAqHGj8bT7EcVURl UAdAAMAnBCDlC4B2BvB2ZQeAAjAc0T0e0CAHgAbQBJAEIG9miCBaRQfAcmd5HSD1JtBzAZB0HjIf 4waQIO/3If8jDwBweQIgHUEgsh7QvwiRHVAFsAeABcAFoG0KsP8rUCcQEgAEIAIQHGAmMAOgOQfC WmUHQABwHdBzb/8DER7RJtAoLyk/Kk8WAB5gcwVABRBzayYyHTAeM3L/FgAnIB3BJvQusB4yBaAI cPct0QsgLDFvJQAFwB7SL4/3MJ8bzgWgbh1gBPAnQS3xHyZBHtIAwSwQK4AuIFf3LBARsBzQYQQg C2AccAXA9S7gbB3RbyW6B8I3Dzgf7xw3LmYAwB1gYTtgNp8b+5MKjz5MRWQ08GU6Q3UVQ3VBHJB1 B0BseSz/HNAdQBHAJQAeYB8BAkAsMncrxB1ALipwBvA7oB1Ad287kyciB5Ef42484BGyZ8sHkUdz ZTYSZXgEADRBPztgHLIIYDyhHTERwHBwQybQPNFmYXggK2B1/0exBaBOATqFR+RHICfxDbB3AJAW AUzxVB7hHEIcYHnmcEnxO/FhZDYRJ1AR8Pcd0AuAB7NFK4AmsgfBUhFfLrEcYB2wTGFTZGoIYW49 B0BzRyE7lzyDLGEgVeBTJDUsMFdAVqME8ZlN4CB2B0AKUCAoAJAObknhJYBQYGlkbifzJVEFsGsp O2Ee8TwzAhD+dS6xH+NHQTKiHtNKki3T/0fBTKEmMiABHxA78CshUGD8b3oJ8CSiNCEFsErFR3P+ cB6hBGArgCbQC4A80SQY/RxxaEswFZAmwSVzSzFZkjUeMig2Ai1asCWAeSn/OuhNFxWQR5E80RHw WNEusP5lUcBlgQIwRyBJ4FJxHWBfHcJcIhYASaAAIHNM8VCbXWJRMW9cMR7RbSFNAPwgT1ARTS88 0WhDCGFm1s0gUGxngUXMTi069QQgO0dAMrFoLcFS4R7SODDzJIBM8U51LJEIYAQgTIDfUcAFECUi JgJHc3QIgTyzs2cxA2BkdUnhJBhjC2H6bVWRYh6hSzErcmUxcsD/PMIdMQGgH7I84EugMoJapX9R M3SBINAzYgDQM0BekXHbClBM8U0m0EOhdFNhRyDoTWlrHUBGHZJQEQeArQVAVAfQCsBpUtJJNOFD R8BS4TE5OTNM8Uj/MsFN8C5wXrJ0JDrhOmMJwf8nwnABCcBjQUcgbdBHQDYR/31xHUBZIUshWQEl EAIgJyC/V+AccCsxNfNjFFBhdknS/yABH+MnUAeAerRyhDzCR3S/OmFjEIBlcuRbRVqwYXlh/x1A XQItIWV5axtKBRxBR5H/IFARsEzyJlBOooKlRxELUN9n/FajRuFk9WvtSQNgAwDPOhBG8SAhCGBn aEcgdaN/O6BGwITkbNct4iQYR0Bili0AkH9hKEijLTFjcP8EAEpkPLMdMWLYcuQkFTzB/zyheDOB FCwQBCA2EQCQLfFfK4A2EjvigyFM8UEusVD1A2BmO2BLWKFt0BWQhPPaUwGQbSxhHdBVAwCUs/+A QTmzLIFa0gQATPFaAWRf94LmbNeDx2Z7QR/UWrAfEK8EEXWvdrdYcEwJ8Hokgf0LYHdjcDoQA6CR xSzRg7H/lGMc45U0HTF8kRnAXgBM4t+S9oIGXvOQ9QWwLZ2Tjnb/kPEe0jyBHqA6QX15VjNcYped xB6RX4JjUKBjdVjx/5DxcoBoUAmAoVWorR0woRL/VZFS4Q3BHIGNRKTUp5EusV+nualANAElQZDx ZFfgd/+m8Z3lZ1I6QR9Dnviu8kwxvxWQUcCtoR60HaBBMHRQ5P8WACxhUTJMMQIwJ2RRMR2w/0sw JSE6VGLYa+1REmaRPKG/JkErgAfgVLVpdxHwciUA/x3QfIMsMSfxHtJOYByQUhH/HoMDUGVBVLVh FwiQbWU08P8E8G9QUqIuopRjLGFvAH6Df29QIHIFsRGyuqEsMTvwc+/AMQuAOiNr7S0H8AngHdD+ SKlQHaBDdU0ALmBTZAhQFHJwwrdoAkBwOi/2L14BJqIuLNFFzEN1FSECAMdAAAAAAwAQEAEAAAAD ABEQAAAAAEAABzDAyTv2YVu8AUAACDDAyTv2YVu8AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03 AAD+1A== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5B2A.DCE54BE0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 21:17:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA24184; Wed, 7 May 1997 21:06:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:06:21 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC5B2A.DCD48300@ip134.ts6.phx.inficad.com> From: Reed Huish To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: DePalma discussion continued... Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:02:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC5B2A.DCE54BE0" Resent-Message-ID: <"DKo7s2.0.kv5.y4LSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3018 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5B2A.DCE54BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >I will be finished talking about the legal battle that ensued from=20 >DePalma's involvement with members of ZENergy by stating that if=20 >anyone from thier former company sets foot on New Zealand soil they=20 >are at risk of being arrested by standing court order over the=20 >confiscation of the machine. Which was later sold to members of New = >Zealand mafia.=20 Eddie: Actually, we have a letter from the New Zealand police which states that = no charges have ever existed. I would be happy to fax you a copy of the = letter, if desired. The prototype was advertised in New Energy News and = other energy journals, which was sold for US$5,000 for scrap value = (since it didn't work). We later found that we are the latest on a list = of at least a dozen investors that have put money into DePalma's = technology with no working (over-unity) machine. I would love to see = independent, certified test reports. Please post them! Or, I would be = happy to post our test results. N-machines were hot in the 80's. Numerous experimenters have tried to = reproduce DePalma's claims, but no one seems to be able to get around = the problem of back torque. My partner, Mike Fisher, met Tewari in = India in 1993. He appears to be a man of great integrity, however, he = did not demonstrate an over-unity device at that time. He claims to = have an o-u device, but we are unaware of any independent test results = which prove such. If you have any, please post them for all to see. Ironically enough, the picture of N-machine on DePalma's web-site (the = N-1) is stated to be over-unity, but DePalma told Mike that this version = never was o-u. And Prof. Kincholoe of Stamford University confirmed = this. We would love to see an o-u N-machine, but we fear that unless = the problem of back torque (Lenz's law) can be overcome, this will never = be realized. DePalma claims that his stator-less machine is the = solution, however, as soon as the output circuit is closed, this output = circuit becomes, in effect, the stator, and as soon as current is drawn, = the proportional back torque is developed at the shaft. Therefore = preventing the phenomenon of over-unity. The field of new energy would be served greater if the facts about free = energy technologies were discussed and this forum not used for character = assassination. - Reed Huish Zenergy Corp http://zenergy.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5B2A.DCE54BE0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjMEAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAkAAAAUkU6 IERlUGFsbWEgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBjb250aW51ZWQuLi4AXAwBBYADAA4AAADNBwUABwAVAAIAOQAD ADMBASCAAwAOAAAAzQcFAAcAFAArABAAAwAyAQEJgAEAIQAAADRBNkJDQ0ZDMEFDN0QwMTFCOTdD MDA0MDk1NDAyN0NGADoHAQOQBgBgCAAAFAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAA AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAwEKqtmRbvAEeAHAAAQAAACQAAABSRTogRGVQYWxtYSBkaXNjdXNzaW9u IGNvbnRpbnVlZC4uLgACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvFtktmf8zGtLxwoR0Ll8AECVQCfPAAAeAB4MAQAA AAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEQAAAHJlZWRAemVuZXJneS5jb20AAAAAAwAGEAaZmtgDAAcQ UwcAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAElXSUxMQkVGSU5JU0hFRFRBTEtJTkdBQk9VVFRIRUxFR0FMQkFUVExF VEhBVEVOU1VFREZST01ERVBBTE1BU0lOVk9MVkVNRU5UV0lUSE1FTUJFUlNPRlpFTkVSR1lCWVNU QVQAAAAAAgEJEAEAAADJBgAAxQYAAKULAABMWkZ1wvYrp/8ACgEPAhUCpAPkBesCgwBQEwNUAgBj aArAc2V07jIGAAbDAoMyA8YHEwKDujMTDX0KgAjPCdk7Ff94MjU1AoAKgQ2xC2BuMGcxMDMUIAsD bGm8MzYN8AtVEvIMAWMAQFwgPgtGFCIMAXADYHRTBZAFQEkgA/BsAyBiWGUgZguABABoCYAgyQGQ bGsLgGcgAaAIYIUFQHQdsCBsZWcHQL0dIGECQB8QHsEfgCAJ8O5zClAd0ANSIAqHGj8bT7EcVURl UAdAAMAnBCDlC4B2BvB2ZQeAAjAc0T0e0CAHgAbQBJAEIG9miCBaRQfAcmd5HSD1JtBzAZB0HjIf 4waQIO/3If8jDwBweQIgHUEgsh7QvwiRHVAFsAeABcAFoG0KsP8rUCcQEgAEIAIQHGAmMAOgOQfC WmUHQABwHdBzb/8DER7RJtAoLyk/Kk8WAB5gcwVABRBzayYyHTAeM3L/FgAnIB3BJvQusB4yBaAI cPct0QsgLDFvJQAFwB7SL4/3MJ8bzgWgbh1gBPAnQS3xHyZBHtIAwSwQK4AuIFf3LBARsBzQYQQg C2AccAXA9S7gbB3RbyW6B8I3Dzgf7xw3LmYAwB1gYTtgNp8b+5MKjz5MRWQ08GU6Q3UVQ3VBHJB1 B0BseSz/HNAdQBHAJQAeYB8BAkAsMncrxB1ALipwBvA7oB1Ad287kyciB5Ef42484BGyZ8sHkUdz ZTYSZXgEADRBPztgHLIIYDyhHTERwHBwQybQPNFmYXggK2B1/0exBaBOATqFR+RHICfxDbB3AJAW AUzxVB7hHEIcYHnmcEnxO/FhZDYRJ1AR8Pcd0AuAB7NFK4AmsgfBUhFfLrEcYB2wTGFTZGoIYW49 B0BzRyE7lzyDLGEgVeBTJDUsMFdAVqME8ZlN4CB2B0AKUCAoAJAObknhJYBQYGlkbifzJVEFsGsp O2Ee8TwzAhD+dS6xH+NHQTKiHtNKki3T/0fBTKEmMiABHxA78CshUGD8b3oJ8CSiNCEFsErFR3P+ cB6hBGArgCbQC4A80SQY/RxxaEswFZAmwSVzSzFZkjUeMig2Ai1asCWAeSn/OuhNFxWQR5E80RHw WNEusP5lUcBlgQIwRyBJ4FJxHWBfHcJcIhYASaAAIHNM8VCbXWJRMW9cMR7RbSFNAPwgT1ARTS88 0WhDCGFm1s0gUGxngUXMTi069QQgO0dAMrFoLcFS4R7SODDzJIBM8U51LJEIYAQgTIDfUcAFECUi JgJHc3QIgTyzs2cxA2BkdUnhJBhjC2H6bVWRYh6hSzErcmUxcsD/PMIdMQGgH7I84EugMoJapX9R M3SBINAzYgDQM0BekXHbClBM8U0m0EOhdFNhRyDoTWlrHUBGHZJQEQeArQVAVAfQCsBpUtJJNOFD R8BS4TE5OTNM8Uj/MsFN8C5wXrJ0JDrhOmMJwf8nwnABCcBjQUcgbdBHQDYR/31xHUBZIUshWQEl EAIgJyC/V+AccCsxNfNjFFBhdknS/yABH+MnUAeAerRyhDzCR3S/OmFjEIBlcuRbRVqwYXlh/x1A XQItIWV5axtKBRxBR5H/IFARsEzyJlBOooKlRxELUN9n/FajRuFk9WvtSQNgAwDPOhBG8SAhCGBn aEcgdaN/O6BGwITkbNct4iQYR0Bili0AkH9hKEijLTFjcP8EAEpkPLMdMWLYcuQkFTzB/zyheDOB FCwQBCA2EQCQLfFfK4A2EjvigyFM8UEusVD1A2BmO2BLWKFt0BWQhPPaUwGQbSxhHdBVAwCUs/+A QTmzLIFa0gQATPFaAWRf94LmbNeDx2Z7QR/UWrAfEK8EEXWvdrdYcEwJ8Hokgf0LYHdjcDoQA6CR xSzRg7H/lGMc45U0HTF8kRnAXgBM4t+S9oIGXvOQ9QWwLZ2Tjnb/kPEe0jyBHqA6QX15VjNcYped xB6RX4JjUKBjdVjx/5DxcoBoUAmAoVWorR0woRL/VZFS4Q3BHIGNRKTUp5EusV+nualANAElQZDx ZFfgd/+m8Z3lZ1I6QR9Dnviu8kwxvxWQUcCtoR60HaBBMHRQ5P8WACxhUTJMMQIwJ2RRMR2w/0sw JSE6VGLYa+1REmaRPKG/JkErgAfgVLVpdxHwciUA/x3QfIMsMSfxHtJOYByQUhH/HoMDUGVBVLVh FwiQbWU08P8E8G9QUqIuopRjLGFvAH6Df29QIHIFsRGyuqEsMTvwc+/AMQuAOiNr7S0H8AngHdD+ SKlQHaBDdU0ALmBTZAhQFHJwwrdoAkBwOi/2L14BJqIuLNFFzEN1FSECAMdAAAAAAwAQEAEAAAAD ABEQAAAAAEAABzDAyTv2YVu8AUAACDDAyTv2YVu8AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03 AAD+1A== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5B2A.DCE54BE0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 21:21:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA21485; Wed, 7 May 1997 21:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33717C8A.FFD@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 00:11:06 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DePalma discussion continued... References: <199705080138.VAA04172@mail2.wilmington.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DlxxD3.0.cF5.sALSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3019 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: tmwsiy@mail2.wilmington.net wrote: > I will be finished talking about the legal battle that ensued from > DePalma's involvement with members of ZENergy by stating that if > anyone from thier former company sets foot on New Zealand soil they > are at risk of being arrested by standing court order over the > confiscation of the machine. Which was later sold to members of New Zealand > mafia. Ok, this is really interesting stuff here! First, there was a claim that "they (ZENergy?) sent a group of Foriegn Nationals (illegally) to his (Depalma's) home in New Zealand to confiscate the machines which they had funded". This was met with the claim that "After delays and excuses by DePalma, the investors had to obtain a court order through proper legal channels to even see (let alone test) the machine they funded." Now, having no associations or interests with either ZENergy or DePalma, I'm left wondering just what happened that is being described as an illeagal seizure of a device made by DePalma, but funded by ZENergy, from DePalma's home. If it was funded by ZENergy, (both posters have apparently agreed on this point!) then exactly why was ZENergy's taking possesion of the device illeagal? If it was theirs (funded by ZENergy) why is their taking possesion being described as "confiscation"? Standing court orders for arrest? (This sound better than Newman vs. the PTO.) Clearly there is a lot more to this story than either poster has described so far. And one poster is already finished with this issue?! What exactly are the facts here? >> All the documentation, test reports, and contracts are available for review if >> anyone desires to contact us for copies. If the machine really does work, lets >> see an independent lab report to prove it. > > Paramahamsa Tewari has built machines and performed tests on the > latest generation of N-machines with unity occuring at about 4000 rpm > with a 4-1 out to in ratio at 6000 rpm Someone who works for the > atomic energy board of India is pretty independant from DePalma. As are the builders (and investors) of many permenent magnet hompolar generators in a myriad of configurations, none of which supported DePalma's earlier claims. As I understand the situation, India is still operating its nuclear plants, and its fossil fuel plants for power generation, as well as investing in more of the same. It's been quite some time scince Tewari built his first (published) devices. I wonder what the rest of this story might be? Suppression, confiscation, leagal problems, that pesky New Zeland mafia, what? >From the DePalma web site: (in relation to the pictured N-1 device) "This device - and many others like it - have been proven to possess "over-unity" characteristics, ie: the power output is more than 100% of the input." The exact device shown as the N-1 design has appeared in a free energy publication quite a few years ago. There has been a very great deal of interest, time and money expended on N machines scince that publication (which included test data on Sunburst). So where exactly are the 'many others' that have "been proven to possess "over-unity characteristics..."? The vast weight of evidence suggests that these are fully conservative devices. There is no valid reason for a truly working device to have any lack of supporting evidence based on conventional, accepted testing methods. > Bob Shannon wrote: > >In your opinion, what is it about a permanent magnet homopolar > >generator that allows it to operate at efficiencies greater than 100%? > > There is a newly discovered principle called compensation that allows > for the "drag" ensued by the elctricity being genertated to be > compensated for (has to be series machine like N-1 and after) > by allowing electricity to flow opposite the original > direction. this creates a similar effect to coaxial > cable which the purpose is to cancel out any field created by the > electricty in the center wire by the counterpoise in the metal > "sheath". The machine does not respond > any differently in regards to power consumption with this > configuration. ALso a nice side benifit is the voltage doubling with > each set of these compensators one uses. > > I hope this helps... Err, is this flux cancellation, is it actual vector superposition, or simple field distrotion? No, no, never mind, lets not go there just yet.....(ever heard of a scalar wave?) So your adding more opposing flux to get rid of the opposing flux that limits operation to the under unity realm? And this is how the machine 'illegally confiscated' from DePalma by 'Forgin Nationals', and then sold to the local mafia by the people who had actually paid for its development works eh? Don't get me wrong here, it's not at all that I do not think 'free' energy is impossible. I am not a skeptic at all, but I am aware that there are far more claimed free energy machines than there are working (or workable) designs. DePalma's web site shows an old machine, but no hard data. So where is the data on this 'newly discovered principle', which is also not all that new? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 22:04:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA30636; Wed, 7 May 1997 21:58:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:58:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: cmetnet.cmet.net: [206.48.24.49] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <33716B5F.5370@cmet.net> Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 01:57:51 -0400 From: ce3cwf = felix meyer Reply-To: ce3cwf@cmet.net Organization: CE3CWF X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Patent 5 313 850 pictures References: <33707BA7.4D7D@mail.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8-BfJ1.0.cU7.orLSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3020 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: US Patent 5'313'850 pictures ---------------------------- Someone was asking for these pictures. I lost this name due to computer faulure. I could download them without any problem. If you want a copy then send me a mail. Regards Felix Meyer mailto:ce3cwf@cmet.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 22:16:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA00310; Wed, 7 May 1997 22:14:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:14:00 -0700 From: mindtech@om.com.au Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 14:58:30 +1000 Message-Id: <9705080458.AB23475@atom.om.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@om.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Microwaves! Resent-Message-ID: <"OwvsG2.0.m4.N4MSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3021 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >gander at a unit, and looking up it's specs in a library), one can jigger >up an effective radar blaster, if one knows some high school electronics. > The March issue of "Electronics World" magazine has an article on how qualified technicans can convert microwave ovens to laboratory use. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 22:22:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA01421 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 7 May 1997 22:22:49 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:22:49 -0700 X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Wed May 7 22:22:46 1997 Received: from dub-img-4.compuserve.com (dub-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.206.134]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA01198 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 22:22:44 -0700 Received: by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA08682; Thu, 8 May 1997 01:22:12 -0400 Old-Date: 08 May 97 01:15:41 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970508051540_515664.456256_JHO38-7@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 24 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: Microwaves! Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA06342; Thu, 8 May 1997 01:15:13 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA00310; Wed, 7 May 1997 22:14:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:14:00 -0700 From: mindtech@om.com.au Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 14:58:30 +1000 Message-Id: <9705080458.AB23475@atom.om.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@om.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Microwaves! Resent-Message-ID: <"OwvsG2.0.m4.N4MSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3021 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >gander at a unit, and looking up it's specs in a library), one can jigger >up an effective radar blaster, if one knows some high school electronics. > The March issue of "Electronics World" magazine has an article on how qualified technicans can convert microwave ovens to laboratory use. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 22:51:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA05155; Wed, 7 May 1997 22:49:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:49:40 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 01:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970508014903_-1433691277@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: Freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Rex Research Resent-Message-ID: <"98iS43.0.QG1.pbMSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3022 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Howdy! Have you ever heard of Rex Research? They had a catalog offering items similar to those you've got here. I have an old address for them, but its out of date and the phone number I have for them is no good either. Would at least like to be able to track down some of their items if possible. Please let me know if you know anything. Thanks. I can be reached at Bmd2323@aol.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 23:20:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA08117 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:20:12 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:20:12 -0700 X-Envelope-From: hheffner@corecom.net Wed May 7 23:20:10 1997 Received: from home.corecom.net (root@[199.237.128.11]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA08072; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:20:04 -0700 Received: from [199.237.131.225] (palmer05.corecom.net [199.237.131.225]) by home.corecom.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA12658; Wed, 7 May 1997 22:26:38 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Old-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:25:08 -0800 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Simple OU Device X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: At 10:48 AM 5/8/97, Greg Watson wrote: >Hi All, > >Just a short note to all those suggestions to use multi straight ramps >or curved return tracks to close the loop. > >I have tried various schemes without success. > >What I have found is that with any angled scheme, the ball will not be >able to stay on the "Neutral Line" of side to side attraction between >the magnet assys and will loose energy because of the much larger side >ways attractions very quickly. > >Seems angled schemes are doomed to fail. The ball must stay on the >"Neutral Line". > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax If you have a couple of the black boxes maybe you could try them in series. If there is any o-u performance, enough boxes in series might eventually give enough energy for a return trip. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 23:22:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA03476; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:11:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:11:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705080606.XAA10755@claim.goldrush.com> From: "WESLY" To: Subject: NEWMAN CAPACITORS Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:34:43 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JsFyg1.0.Ds.ovMSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3023 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Greg East: If you are looking for capacitors, I can get you some large 1.5 microfarad caps rated at 33,000 volts for 20 to 40 dollars each. The only problem is that they weigh 150 to 250 lbs each. I don't have your email handy so let me know if you are interested. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 23:26:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA05164 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:26:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Wed May 7 23:26:08 1997 Received: from arl-img-9.compuserve.com (arl-img-9.compuserve.com [149.174.217.139]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA04948 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-9.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id CAA24807; Thu, 8 May 1997 02:25:06 -0400 Old-Date: 08 May 97 02:16:53 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970508061652_515664.456256_IHH70-45@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx2.eskimo.com bounced 22 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx2.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 NEWMAN CAPACITORS Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by hil-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id CAA03743; Thu, 8 May 1997 02:16:44 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA03476; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:11:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:11:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705080606.XAA10755@claim.goldrush.com> From: "WESLY" To: Subject: NEWMAN CAPACITORS Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:34:43 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JsFyg1.0.Ds.ovMSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3023 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com To Greg East: If you are looking for capacitors, I can get you some large 1.5 microfarad caps rated at 33,000 volts for 20 to 40 dollars each. The only problem is that they weigh 150 to 250 lbs each. I don't have your email handy so let me know if you are interested. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 23:34:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA09454; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:32:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:32:54 -0700 Message-ID: <33717347.4CE@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 16:01:35 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Horace Heffner CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Device References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sqcNJ1.0.RJ2.KENSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3024 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > At 10:48 AM 5/8/97, Greg Watson wrote: > >Hi All, > > > >Just a short note to all those suggestions to use multi straight ramps > >or curved return tracks to close the loop. > > > >I have tried various schemes without success. > > > >What I have found is that with any angled scheme, the ball will not be > >able to stay on the "Neutral Line" of side to side attraction between > >the magnet assys and will loose energy because of the much larger side > >ways attractions very quickly. > > > >Seems angled schemes are doomed to fail. The ball must stay on the > >"Neutral Line". > > > If you have a couple of the black boxes maybe you could try them in series. > If there is any o-u performance, enough boxes in series might eventually > give enough energy for a return trip. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner Hi Horace, Isn't a good engineering solution as the "Tuning" of the exit is sensitive to the ball speed (too much and it leaved the exit track and is attracted to one of the side magnets). While the ramps are simple to build and seem to indicate OU, I feel they are NOT the way to close the loop. My testing seems to indicate that out of a vertical lift and drop of 20mm, I can recover around 2-3mm worth of energy on exit. For a 12mm steel ball, that's not a lot of energy to play with. They can, however, teach us about what is going on and why. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 23:38:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA06567 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:38:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: hheffner@corecom.net Wed May 7 23:37:59 1997 Received: from home.corecom.net (root@[199.237.128.11]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA06515; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [199.237.131.225] (palmer05.corecom.net [199.237.131.225]) by home.corecom.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA13514; Wed, 7 May 1997 22:44:15 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Old-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:42:44 -0800 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Simple OU Device X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: At 10:48 AM 5/8/97, Greg Watson wrote: >Hi All, > >Just a short note to all those suggestions to use multi straight ramps >or curved return tracks to close the loop. > >I have tried various schemes without success. > >What I have found is that with any angled scheme, the ball will not be >able to stay on the "Neutral Line" of side to side attraction between >the magnet assys and will loose energy because of the much larger side >ways attractions very quickly. > >Seems angled schemes are doomed to fail. The ball must stay on the >"Neutral Line". > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax If you have a couple of the black boxes maybe you could try them in series. If there is any o-u performance, enough boxes in series might eventually give enough energy for a return trip. If you can accumulate enough energy to get far enough away from a box to turn a corner, then you could line up black boxes on the return trip to make the final corner as well, or you could just make a big circle of magnet boxes. If you had one working you could easily rent a business space and charge $10 admission just to see the world's first successful perpetual motion machine. That should cover your patenting, development, and marketing costs till you really got going. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 7 23:46:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA07199 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:46:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:46:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: hheffner@corecom.net Wed May 7 23:46:22 1997 Received: from home.corecom.net (root@[199.237.128.11]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA07140; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [199.237.131.225] (palmer05.corecom.net [199.237.131.225]) by home.corecom.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA13738; Wed, 7 May 1997 22:52:31 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Old-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:51:00 -0800 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Simple OU Device Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: At 4:01 PM 5/8/97, Greg Watson wrote: >Horace Heffner wrote: >> >> At 10:48 AM 5/8/97, Greg Watson wrote: >> >Hi All, >> > >> >Just a short note to all those suggestions to use multi straight ramps >> >or curved return tracks to close the loop. >> > >> >I have tried various schemes without success. >> > >> >What I have found is that with any angled scheme, the ball will not be >> >able to stay on the "Neutral Line" of side to side attraction between >> >the magnet assys and will loose energy because of the much larger side >> >ways attractions very quickly. >> > >> >Seems angled schemes are doomed to fail. The ball must stay on the >> >"Neutral Line". >> > >> If you have a couple of the black boxes maybe you could try them in series. >> If there is any o-u performance, enough boxes in series might eventually >> give enough energy for a return trip. >> >> Regards, >> >> Horace Heffner > >Hi Horace, > >Isn't a good engineering solution as the "Tuning" of the exit is >sensitive to the ball speed (too much and it leaved the exit track and >is attracted to one of the side magnets). Use the speed to gain potential energy. You could even put the box on an upwar incline if necessary to avoid excessive speed. The the ball will not leave the track. > >While the ramps are simple to build and seem to indicate OU, I feel they >are NOT the way to close the loop. My testing seems to indicate that >out of a vertical lift and drop of 20mm, I can recover around 2-3mm >worth of energy on exit. For a 12mm steel ball, that's not a lot of >energy to play with. That's plenty. Ten boxes and you have a rise of 2-3 cm. that's plenty of elevation to roll around a corner - plus an initial 10 m of track to get away from the box. > >They can, however, teach us about what is going on and why. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 8 00:00:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA12156; Wed, 7 May 1997 23:59:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:59:22 -0700 Message-ID: <33717709.B23@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 16:17:37 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Device References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pxz7K3.0.ez2.8dNSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3025 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > If you had one working you could easily rent a business space and charge > $10 admission just to see the world's first successful perpetual motion > machine. That should cover your patenting, development, and marketing costs > till you really got going. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner Hi Horace, And to think I thought you were the straight man. Silly me. At least now I know that you only believe in "OU according to Horace". Join the discussion group, spectics keep us ALL honest. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 8 00:25:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA14681; Thu, 8 May 1997 00:20:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 00:20:33 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:48:46 +1000 Message-Id: <199705080848.SAA15062@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: FREE COPIES of my Encyclopedia of free energy Resent-Message-ID: <"kPU5j1.0.Jb3.0xNSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3026 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >To those that have asked I will be from the 24 of May 97 be placing a seperate page from the html version of my encyclopedia of free energy with a new page replacing it each week, so that it can be download by you and stored on your disk or hard disk to give you a complete up to date free version. Period that this will run for will be approx twenty weeks no repeats will occurr in those weeks. Unfortunately I cannot email those page seperately to users. For more information check out my website http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel Geoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 8 00:31:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA10695 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 8 May 1997 00:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 00:31:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM Thu May 8 00:30:53 1997 Received: from hil-img-10.compuserve.com (hil-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.177.140]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA10462 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 00:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hil-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id DAA25371; Thu, 8 May 1997 03:29:50 -0400 Old-Date: 08 May 97 03:22:07 EDT From: Electronic Postmaster Comments: Returned from: <100405.1410@CompuServe.COM> Message-Type: Delivery Report To: Subject: Undeliverable message Message-ID: <970508072206_515664.456256_JHM48-7@CompuServe.COM> X-Diagnostic: Mail to mx1.eskimo.com bounced 25 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 8 X-Diagnostic: Not confident enough to autoremove the offending address bilb@eskimo.com 19908 mx1.eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Re: ? EMDRNF - Mail Delivery Failure. Receiver not found. 100405,1410 Re: FREE COPIES of my Encyclopedia of free energy Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message --- Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by arl-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id DAA18545; Thu, 8 May 1997 03:21:53 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA14681; Thu, 8 May 1997 00:20:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 00:20:33 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:48:46 +1000 Message-Id: <199705080848.SAA15062@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: FREE COPIES of my Encyclopedia of free energy Resent-Message-ID: <"kPU5j1.0.Jb3.0xNSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3026 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >To those that have asked I will be from the 24 of May 97 be placing a seperate page from the html version of my encyclopedia of free energy with a new page replacing it each week, so that it can be download by you and stored on your disk or hard disk to give you a complete up to date free version. Period that this will run for will be approx twenty weeks no repeats will occurr in those weeks. Unfortunately I cannot email those page seperately to users. For more information check out my website http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel Geoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 8 01:00:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA18030; Thu, 8 May 1997 00:54:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 00:54:58 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 03:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970508035422_-699555199@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: ce3cwf@cmet.net cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: Patent 5 313 850 pictures Resent-Message-ID: <"kXJrz2.0.eP4.HROSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3027 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 08/05/1997 08:09:39 , you wrote : << Suj : Re: Patent 5 313 850 pictures Date : 08/05/1997 08:09:39 From: ce3cwf@cmet.net (ce3cwf = felix meyer) US Patent 5'313'850 pictures ---------------------------- Someone was asking for these pictures. I lost this name due to computer faulure. I could download them without any problem. If you want a copy then send me a mail. Regards Felix Meyer >> Hi Felix, Thanks for your help, I have been able to download this patent, the IBM patent server work fine again. It is a very interesting patent, and I have found another patent about gyroscopic energy.....: 5024112 : Gyroscopic apparatus I have an italian document (in paper form) coming from Prof. Alberto Basso-Ricci ( Institute " L.Settembrini" Milan - Italy ). He has built and experimented successfully a "antigravitional" engine based on the same principle, I have some difficulties to translate the italian text, but the drawing, pictures and formulas show clearly that this device seems work. He use 3 gyroscopes in rotation to thrust the apparatus upward. The device use 3+1 electrical motors. I have scanned some pictures and schemes for those are interested, simply ask me... :-) Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 ----------------------------------------------------- 5024112 : Gyroscopic apparatus ------------------------------------------------------------------------ INVENTORS:Kidd; ALexander D., Barnhill, Scotland ABSTRACT: * A gyroscopic apparatus (100), having application as a prime mover, comprises a pair of discs (102) disposed opposite one another with arms (104) rotatably supporting the discs (102) connected at a pivot point, the pivot axis thereof lying in a plane midway between the discs (102). A drive arrangement (124, 126, 180) operates to spin the discs (102) in opposite directions while simultaneously rotating the whole assembly of discs (102) and arms (104) about a second axis in the same plane as, but perpendicular to, the pivot axis. A camming arrangement (144, 146, 152) working in conjunction with the rotation about the second axis periodically forces the spinning discs (102) to pivot about the pivot axis to thereby generate a force along the second axis which can be used to perform useful work. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 8 01:54:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA22957; Thu, 8 May 1997 01:49:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 01:49:56 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 04:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970508044917_-365827060@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Subject: About Epsilon0/MuO Resent-Message-ID: <"PPRps3.0.Zc5.pEPSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3028 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Fred and all, Please, I would like to known the answers about some questions bellow, could someone help me : 1) Do you know a mean for modifying the permitivity (epsilon 0) or the permeability ( mu 0 ) of the VACUUM in a defined space volume dV ( without material inside ) ? 2) Do you think that a high stress of magnetic energy in compression, for instance in two N-N poles in repulsion, can modify the main characteristics of the vacuum "constants" (epsilon0/mu0) ? Thanks for your help, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 8 10:53:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA13262; Thu, 8 May 1997 10:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 10:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC5B9D.56F01920@ip134.ts6.phx.inficad.com> From: Reed Huish To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: DePalma Discussion Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 10:47:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"orXkw.0.8F3.y4XSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3030 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I will be finished talking about the legal battle that ensued from=20 >DePalma's involvement with members of ZENergy by stating that if=20 >anyone from thier former company sets foot on New Zealand soil they=20 >are at risk of being arrested by standing court order over the=20 >confiscation of the machine. Which was later sold to members of New = >Zealand mafia.=20 Eddie: Actually, we have a letter from the New Zealand police which states that = no charges have ever existed. I would be happy to fax you a copy of the = letter, if desired. The prototype was advertised in New Energy News and = other energy journals, which was sold for US$5,000 for scrap value = (since it didn't work). We later found that we are the latest on a list = of at least a dozen investors that have put money into DePalma's = technology with no working (over-unity) machine. I would love to see = independent, certified test reports. Please post them! Or, I would be = happy to post our test results. N-machines were hot in the 80's. Numerous experimenters have tried to = reproduce DePalma's claims, but no one seems to be able to get around = the problem of back torque. My partner, Mike Fisher, met Tewari in = India in 1993. He appears to be a man of great integrity, however, he = did not demonstrate an over-unity device at that time. He claims to = have an o-u device, but we are unaware of any independent test results = which prove such. If you have any, please post them for all to see. Ironically enough, the picture of N-machine on DePalma's web-site (the = N-1) is stated to be over-unity, but DePalma told Mike that this version = never was o-u. And Prof. Kincholoe of Stamford University confirmed = this. We would love to see an o-u N-machine, but we fear that unless = the problem of back torque (Lenz's law) can be overcome, this will never = be realized. DePalma claims that his stator-less machine is the = solution, however, as soon as the output circuit is closed, this output = circuit becomes, in effect, the stator, and as soon as current is drawn, = the proportional back torque is developed at the shaft. Therefore = preventing the phenomenon of over-unity. The field of new energy would be served greater if the facts about free = energy technologies were discussed and this forum not used for character = assassination. - Reed Huish Zenergy Corp http://zenergy.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 8 10:54:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA13235; Thu, 8 May 1997 10:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 10:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC5B9D.335A99E0@ip134.ts6.phx.inficad.com> From: Reed Huish To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: DePalma Discussion Continued Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 10:45:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"rdKJV2.0.bE3.t4XSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3029 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If it was funded by ZENergy, (both posters have apparently agreed on this point!) then exactly why was ZENergy's taking possesion of the device illeagal? If it was theirs (funded by ZENergy) why is their taking possesion being described as "confiscation"? Standing court orders for arrest? (This sound better than Newman vs. the PTO.) Clearly there is a lot more to this story than either poster has described so far. And one poster is already finished with this issue?! = DePalma wouldn't let us see the prototype we funded, because he knew it = didn't work -- and the longer he delayed, the longer he drained our = wallets. Oh, yes. There is a lot more to this story. But I'm wasting bandwith = on a decadent technology that had its chance. To avoid wasting = people's time on this board, just give me a call or post me directly and = we'll fill you in on more details. I've got better things to do with my = time. However, I do want to avoid other investors falling into the trap = we did. =20 Eddie, I also invite you to call us. Before you get in too deep with = DePalma, you should at least hear the 'other side' of the story. - Reed Huish Zenergy Corp http://zenergy.com 602.814.7865 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 8 14:11:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA21095; Thu, 8 May 1997 13:59:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 13:59:33 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:58:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970508165711_314631071@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Smith Coil Resent-Message-ID: <"kgXZJ3.0.X95.qwZSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3031 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I read with interest the description of the Smith coil. But there are a couple of questions someone on the list may be able to answer. What is the "proper" way of connecting the two windings to have a Smith coil? They can be series, aiding or opposing; or parallel, aiding or opposing. I would guess opposing, and the result is a very low inductance coil. Any knowledge or guesses as to how the caduceus winding effects the coil properties? To first order (if connected opposing) the coil is almost a short circuit, but I assume other things are going on. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 8 15:51:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA14912; Thu, 8 May 1997 15:43:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 15:43:28 -0700 From: geoff@compcafe.co.uk (Geoff Greaves) Reply-To: geoff@compcafe.co.uk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Five Various Date: 08 May 1997 22:50:03 GMT Message-Id: <14548990.26151045@compcafe.co.uk> Organization: via Computer Cafes FC BBS Wales, UK Resent-Message-ID: <"rGEp9.0.se3.FSbSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3032 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lightning: This topic seems hung up on electricity and hence electrical conversion and storage. Why not use lightning for vapourization to drive a turbine, provide a heat source for a heat pump or a relaxing bath etc? (Unless you've been robbing graveyards.......?) Microwaves: So the reason the majority here want an OU device is to thrash around in cars at illegal speeds, eh? Seems a fair enough objective to me. Greg's device: If this is a linear ball-bearing accelerator wouldn't the simplest way to 'close the loop' be to return the ball to the begining via a route either above or more probably below the 'black-box'? This avoids any tricky bendy bits, just a see-saw. Fred Epps: Unless Fred dictates his e-mails or has a daily calorific intake equivalent to eating three horses I have (roughly) calculated that he is OVER UNITY! Inspirational thought: "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it true. You may have to work for it, however." Richard Bach in 'Illusions' ---------------------------------------- >From Geoff Greaves: geoff@compcafe.co.uk ---------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 8 16:16:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA09275; Thu, 8 May 1997 16:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33725CC6.1D0F@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 08:37:50 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Five Various References: <14548990.26151045@compcafe.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4AOiq2.0.rG2.KqbSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3033 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Geoff Greaves wrote: > > Greg's device: > If this is a linear ball-bearing accelerator wouldn't the simplest way to > 'close the loop' be to return the ball to the begining via a route either > above or more probably below the 'black-box'? This avoids any tricky bendy > bits, just a see-saw. > > From Geoff Greaves: geoff@compcafe.co.uk Hi Geoff, Have you seen the Magnetic ferris wheel graphics yet? What do you think? -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 8 17:13:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA21620; Thu, 8 May 1997 17:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 17:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC5BE2.D93CACA0@polaris.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Newsletter Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 17:00:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"inrPh1.0.aH5.GgcSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3034 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am trying to start a newsletter and I would like a discription of zero = point energy and the work being done to use it to provide electricity. = Although a lot will need to be cut out (Because of size restriction) I = would like all help you could give me. After my newsletter gets = published a few more people will know about free energy. Social = pressures and curiosity will force more people to do work in this area. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 8 18:07:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA14970; Thu, 8 May 1997 18:05:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:05:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3372A244.1FB9@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 21:04:20 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Smith Coil References: <970508165711_314631071@emout19.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PrkmH2.0.kf3.EXdSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3035 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keasy@aol.com wrote: > > I read with interest the description of the Smith coil. But there are a > couple of questions someone on the list may be able to answer. What is the > "proper" way of connecting the two windings to have a Smith coil? They can > be series, aiding or opposing; or parallel, aiding or opposing. I would > guess opposing, and the result is a very low inductance coil. Any knowledge > or guesses as to how the caduceus winding effects the coil properties? To > first order (if connected opposing) the coil is almost a short circuit, but I > assume other things are going on. Caduceus coils are commonly used in the research (production) of scalar waves. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 8 20:52:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA16309; Thu, 8 May 1997 20:44:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 20:44:07 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705090311.XAA25095@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: Newsletter To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 23:11:11 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <01BC5BE2.D93CACA0@polaris.mdm.mke.execpc.com> from "Hawkeye" at May 8, 97 05:00:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"RJG1y.0.8-3.1sfSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3036 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Come to think of it. I would'nt mind a direct discription my self. I know a lot about it, but what would a direct discription be? Like on paragraph. Andrew > > I am trying to start a newsletter and I would like a discription of zero point energy and the work being done to use it to provide electricity. Although a lot will need to be cut out (Because of size restriction) I would like all help you could give me. After my newsletter gets published a few more people will know about free energy. Social pressures and curiosity will force more people to do work in this area. > > -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 8 21:33:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA29675; Thu, 8 May 1997 21:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:29:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 23:30:42 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: *ANNOUNCEMENT* Resent-Message-ID: <"uROo13.0.aF7.OWgSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3037 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: * * * * * * A N N O U N C E M E N T * * * * * * Energy machine inventor JOSEPH NEWMAN has been invited to make a Presentation at the upcoming FOURTH INTERNATIONAL SYMPOSIUM ON NEW ENERGY. Date: Memorial Day Weekend, May 23-26, 1997 Place: Denver, Colorado Marriott Denver Tech Center [Reservations: (303) 779-1100 or (800) 228-9290] For further information, contact the: ACADEMY FOR NEW ENERGY (970) 482-3731 (970) 482-3120 (fax) 216 Commerce Dr., #4, Fort Collins, Colorado 80524 * * * * * * A N N O U N C E M E N T * * * * * * From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 8 23:06:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA13948; Thu, 8 May 1997 23:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 23:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3372D1E0.1825@triode.net.au> Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 00:27:28 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: Bmd2323@aol.com Subject: Re: Rex Research References: <970508014903_-1433691277@emout05.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-IQIk3.0.oP3.7thSp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3038 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The last address I have is: REX RESEARCH PO BOX 19250 JEAN NV 89019 USA Unless he has moved again! Bmd2323@aol.com wrote: > > Howdy! > > Have you ever heard of Rex Research? They had a catalog offering items > similar to those you've got here. I have an old address for them, but its > out of date and the phone number I have for them is no good either. Would at > least like to be able to track down some of their items if possible. Please > let me know if you know anything. Thanks. I can be reached at > Bmd2323@aol.com. -- Maxwell. Be reckless! Practice senseless acts of compassion! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 9 04:18:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA18493; Fri, 9 May 1997 04:13:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 04:13:52 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 07:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970509071315_-1533610402@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Levitron in action color video Resent-Message-ID: <"CzfmR3.0.tW4.lRmSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3039 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, If you want to see by yourself, a magnetic levitation device in action ( in ambiant temperature.....). I put a small color video ( 135 ko in AVI, Video for Windows format ) of my Levitron device. ( weight : 25 gr , 1000 RPM, 40 mm above the base during 2mn30 ) So, you will be able to dream about some antigravity devices floating above the ground with this video..... You can download this video at : http://members.aol.com/overunity2/images/lvtclr.avi Have fun, Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 9 13:58:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA07823; Fri, 9 May 1997 13:49:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 13:49:09 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970509164025_20246116@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: jdecker@keelynet.com Subject: The Hamel Antigravity device scheme Resent-Message-ID: <"jUWl91.0.4w1.3tuSp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3040 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, You will find in my web server the Hamel Antigravity device scheme at : http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/hamelfs.htm This is a weird device, not tested by myself, today....but interesting to study..... Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 11 01:15:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA01526; Sun, 11 May 1997 01:02:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 01:02:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3375475D.447A@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 21:13:17 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: chocolate-fueled overunity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YolcS1.0.mN.KqNTp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3041 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All! > Fred Epps: > Unless Fred dictates his e-mails or has a daily calorific intake equivalent > to eating three horses I have (roughly) calculated that he is OVER UNITY! My caloric intake is quite high as I have a fondness for swiss chocolate and I am sure that the sugar buzz fuels my unremitting posts :-] Together we are "more than one"--- overunity, Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 11 02:44:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA07303; Sun, 11 May 1997 02:35:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 02:35:36 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 05:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970511053501_675247497@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : chocolate-fueled overunity Resent-Message-ID: <"s7XFI2.0.-n1.dBPTp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3042 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 11/05/1997 09:12:03 , Fred Epps wrote : << My caloric intake is quite high as I have a fondness for swiss chocolate and I am sure that the sugar buzz fuels my unremitting posts :-] Together we are "more than one"--- overunity, Fred >> Hi Fred, You have perhaps found a PARAMETRIC EXCITATION with chocolate :-) Jean-Louis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 11 02:48:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA07809; Sun, 11 May 1997 02:40:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 02:40:01 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 05:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970511052909_2051611937@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: jdecker@keelynet.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au, teague@es.co.nz, Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca, mrandall@earthlink.net Subject: Hamel "antigravity" device animation Resent-Message-ID: <"bQ9PO2.0.uv1.mFPTp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3043 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, If you want to see the Hamel "Antigravity (?)" device virtualy running.... You will find a detailled animation of this weird device at : http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/hamelfs.htm Have fun and a good week-end.... :-) Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 11 23:35:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA08632; Sun, 11 May 1997 23:20:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 23:20:14 -0700 Message-Id: <337680C6.5A42@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 19:30:30 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LIGHTNING! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8mZLD3.0.k62.TQhTp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3044 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Just some random thought about atmospheric electricity, lightning etc. It seems to me that people are missing the point if they focus on the actual lightning bolt. The electrostatic potential is about 200 V./meter (acknowledged, a very low current). A laser with a wavelength that partially ionizes a constituent molecule of the air would provide a conductive path for this voltage to ground. A piece of conductive glass placed over the laser would collect this voltage and power a load interposed between it and ground. The question in this scheme is whether the ionized path could be made long enough to generate enough power to run the laser and supply a load. I don't know enough about lasers, atmospheric optics, or chemistry to say anything about that. I had mentioned a method for attracting lightning bolts in another post. It involved using a HV generator attached to a rod or a sheet of metal that would set its potential BELOW ground. Lightning would "see" this rod or sheet as if it were an immensely tall object. It's possible that this method could be used without the lightning. If the potential difference between the rod and any arbitrary point in the atmosphere over the rod was raised high enough there would be a flashover between the two points, or possibly a continuous ion current which would tend to neutralize the device potential. If this energy could be collected instead, there might be an excess over and above that necessary to power the machine. Oleg Jeffimenko succesfully ran motors with 5 W. mechanical power output off the electrical potential from long wires attached to balloons. As far as I know, no-one is experimenting with this now. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 12 00:16:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA13041; Mon, 12 May 1997 00:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 00:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 18:31:03 +1000 Message-Id: <199705120831.SAA03568@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: LIGHTNING! Resent-Message-ID: <"GsCnf3.0.eB3.a0iTp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3045 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:30 PM 5/11/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi All, > > Just some random thought about atmospheric electricity, lightning >etc. It seems to me that people are missing the point if they focus on >the actual lightning bolt. The electrostatic potential is about 200 >V./meter (acknowledged, a very low current). A laser with a wavelength >that partially ionizes a constituent molecule of the air would provide a >conductive path for this voltage to ground. > A piece of conductive glass placed over the laser would collect this >voltage and power a load interposed between it and ground. > The question in this scheme is whether the ionized path could be made >long enough to generate enough power to run the laser and supply a >load. I don't know enough about lasers, atmospheric optics, or >chemistry to say anything about that. > I had mentioned a method for attracting lightning bolts in another >post. It involved using a HV generator attached to a rod or a sheet of >metal that would set its potential BELOW ground. Lightning would "see" >this rod or sheet as if it were an immensely tall object. > It's possible that this method could be used without the lightning. >If the potential difference between the rod and any arbitrary point in >the atmosphere over the rod was raised high enough there would be a >flashover between the two points, or possibly a continuous ion current >which would tend to neutralize the device potential. If this energy >could be collected instead, there might be an excess over and above that >necessary to power the machine. > Oleg Jeffimenko succesfully ran motors with 5 W. mechanical power >output off the electrical potential from long wires attached to >balloons. As far as I know, no-one is experimenting with this now. > Fred > > >I always though glass was an excellent insulator to certain voltage levels could you please explain how you get conductive glass Geoff http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 12 00:20:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA13688; Mon, 12 May 1997 00:00:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 00:00:55 -0700 Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 18:31:24 +1000 Message-Id: <199705120831.SAA03573@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Capacitor design help needed Resent-Message-ID: <"R8TM52.0.oL3.c0iTp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3046 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I am doing some experiments with high voltage generated from a Wimhurst electrostatic machine and would like some comment on a possible design of a capacitor built this way as described below ^Insulated middle electrode ^ |------ ^ ------| > | ----^------ | | | | | | | Sealed | | | | metal | | area of two cans filled with air | | can | | or pure oil | | | | | ------------ | |==Insulation====| |----------------|------ outer electrode electrode The Capacitor would be two metal tin cans similiar to those that are filled with coffee. The outer can capacity is about 2.5 kgs the inner one about 2kgs. One can is smaller than the other and is supported by means of a Insulated Plastic support between the two bottoms of cans . Around the sides the spaces would be made to be equal on all sides. The space between the two cans will either be filled with air or a pure machine oil and maybe the centre can will be filled with oil as well The oil will be filled so that it will cover the middle can entirely The top lid is centre drilled to allow an insulated metal electrode to make contract with the middle can and the second electrode is connected to the outer shell. There will holes in the centre can to allow oil flow if centre is filled. I thought I might also add a smith type tpe coil winding on the outer can side amd discharge the high voltage fron the capacitor throught it. Before I build this however I would like some comment from the more experienced members of this newsgroup into what I could expect some of the results to be however speculative it could be. What measurement of mfd can I expect What Voltage could it hold without cross over. what Resonance frequency could it be. Thanking you in advance Geoff Egel http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 12 00:35:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA16455; Mon, 12 May 1997 00:26:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 00:26:34 -0700 Message-Id: <3376906D.1B79@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 20:37:18 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: LIGHTNING! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yCb6P3.0.114.fOiTp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3047 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Geoff, I'm pretty sure those computer screens that are supposed to protect against radiation are conductive glass. Basically it has a layer of metal on it that is thin enough to be transparent. Probaly you could make a glass that was itself conductive if you doped it properly, like an amorphous semiconductor only moreso. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 12 08:50:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA05646; Mon, 12 May 1997 08:36:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 08:36:07 -0700 Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 08:41:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199705121341.IAA16544@bluestem.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: LIGHTNING! Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"3fH-Q.0.1O1.bZpTp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3048 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >Hi Geoff, > > I'm pretty sure those computer screens that are supposed to protect >against radiation are conductive glass. Basically it has a layer of >metal on it that is thin enough to be transparent. Probaly you could >make a glass that was itself conductive if you doped it properly, like >an amorphous semiconductor only moreso. > Fred > > The manufacturers actually put lead in the glass. It is sufficient to reduce radiation hazards but not enough to make the glass conductive. That is the reason TV's and computer monitors keep getting heavier, while the electronics gets smaller. Glass CAN be made conductive by putting a layer of metal on it by vapor deposition. In fact, the mirrors on a laser are made this way. The mirror at the rear of the laser is close to 100% reflective; the one in the front is approx. 70% reflective. This allows the laser to be an optical cavity resonator while also allowing a smaller percentage of the light to get out of the laser. We used gold on glass for a LIDAR project I was working on some years ago. It was conductive. I imagine you could use aluminum or some other cheaper metal fairly easily. Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 12 09:11:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA02825; Mon, 12 May 1997 09:00:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 09:00:01 -0700 From: M2Milly@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 11:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970512115912_35203365@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : chocolate-fueled overunity XXX Resent-Message-ID: <"lLxOP2.0.1i._vpTp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3049 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: << << My caloric intake is quite high as I have a fondness for swiss chocolate and I am sure that the sugar buzz fuels my unremitting posts :-] Together we are "more than one"--- overunity, Fred >> Hi Fred, You have perhaps found a PARAMETRIC EXCITATION with chocolate :-) Jean-Louis >> Actually its not the sugar that gives the buzz, but the chocolate itself. Sugar acts as a catalyst in the chemical reaction between the phenylethylamine, caffeine and theobromine. Chocolate as self-medication... Donald F. Klein and Michael R. Liebowitz argue that some people who suffer from wide fluctuations in mood may have a faulty mechanism for controlling the body levels of phenylethylamine, a naturally occurring substance that has amphetaminelike effects. The evidence for this is that certain drugs called monoamine oxidase inhibitors, which inhibit the enzymes that break down phyenylethylamine, lift the spirits of people for whom the standard mood-elevating drugs don't work. According to the doctors, cholcolate is rich in phenylethylamine. So self-professed chocolate "addicts" who turn to the candy for solace after depression may be doing so in an unconscious effort to stabilize their body chemistry. (On Food and Cooking, 408) Judith Wurtman, Ph.D. MIT speculates that people crave chocolate because it stimulates seratonin release and calms them. Chocolate also contain theobromine and caffeine. A compound in chocolate called phenylethylamine stimulates the nervous system, increases blood preassure and heart rate, and is suspected to produce feelings similar to those when a person is in love. It is also linked to endorphins and the pleasure response. (Food and Mood, 80) My favorite is a cup of coffee and a chocolate donut or cookie to counteract the acidic effects of the caffeine in my system. BUT BE CAREFUL because you are probably stripping out *B* and *C* vitamins from your system with PROLONGED CHOCOLATE ABUSE which, over time, will give you the opposite effect from the chocolate high, i.e. depression. Supplement with a *b-c vitamin complex* at 2 to 3 times recommended dosage on a daily basis. Always interested in fuel for the mind.... FutrTools software for your head, MjMichael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 12 11:23:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA32202; Mon, 12 May 1997 10:59:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 10:59:38 -0700 Message-Id: <337724A9.3F61@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 07:09:45 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: electromechanical overunity] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"5kcNW3.0.3t7.8grTp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3050 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Message-ID: <3377216F.7B87@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 06:55:59 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: electromechanical overunity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter and All, Peter Nielsen said on May 5th, > >It has been proven by those who prove these things (the first two > >refs) that a one-way system must include either a static magnetic field > >or a mechanical coupling (such as the gyro or transducer combinations). > > > > What about ES fields? No, there doesn't need to be an E/S field present. Microwave gyrators are nonreciprocal elements that consist only of a ferrite sheet in a waveguide, biased by a permanent magnet. The signal is flipped 90 degrees so the electric vector becomes the magnetic one and vice versa (I think I have that right). On the other hand, at lower frequencies the most useful way to create these nonreciprocal effects is to mechanically couple an electromagnetic transducer to an electrostatic (cap, PZ) one. The Hall effect device is a purely magnetic nonreciprocal device but the efficiency is low because Hall effect substances are magnetoresistors. A possible exception might be the Corbino effect device I described in posts where the Hall effect occurs in bulk metals (i.e Bismuth). Since an electrostatic generator driven by a motor is an electromagnetic transducer (motor) mechanically coupled to an electrostatic one, these are nonreciprocal as well. The implication is that loading the output of an E/S generator will not load the motor. Efficiency ratings for E/S generators must then be solely based on the efficiency of the motor. The motor does not have to be overunity for the whole system to be overunity. The E/S rotor as an inertial system can rotate without any loading other than that caused by friction and still provide power. The motor only serves the purpose of compensating for frictional losses, much as the motors in commercial gyros do. I believe that this is the working principle behind the Hyde and Testatika devices. For best operation these types of machines should be run as parametric machines without excitation (I won't get into the hot air about why unless you're really interested). A modified electrostatic generator can be a straightforward overunity system. It will work. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 12 13:34:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA16563; Mon, 12 May 1997 13:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <337784FF.1F22@cmet.net> Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:00:47 -0400 From: ce3cwf = felix meyer Reply-To: ce3cwf@cmet.net Organization: CE3CWF X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: electromechanical overunity : HYDE Gen. References: <337724A9.3F61@mail.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2TwwX3.0.j24.EXtTp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3051 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Fred wrote: > ....... > The motor only serves the purpose of compensating for frictional losses, > much as the motors in commercial gyros do. > I believe that this is the working principle behind the Hyde and > Testatika devices. > For best operation these types of machines should be run as parametric > machines without excitation (I won't get into the hot air about why > unless you're really interested). > A modified electrostatic generator can be a straightforward overunity > system. Hi Fred and others: Who has any figures about the HYDE GENERATOR (based on actual measurements) ? The patent text mentions 10% mechanical input power for 100% electrical output. How high is the consumption of the input field voltage supplied to the electrodes ? any input on the subject is welcome gyroscopically Felix Meyer -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 12 15:38:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA32737; Mon, 12 May 1997 15:30:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 15:30:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3377642E.2EB2@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 11:40:46 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Hyde generator Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RlrwN.0.N_7.vdvTp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3052 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Felix and All, > Who has any figures about the HYDE GENERATOR (based on actual > measurements) ? > The patent text mentions 10% mechanical input power for 100% electrical > output. > How high is the consumption of the input field voltage supplied to the > electrodes ? I neglected to mention in my reference to the Hyde generator that it didn't work :-) I know that George Hathaway and (I think) others have built and tested this machine and they have not even found the circuit behaviour that Hyde described, much less overunity performance. I'm working from memory here, but it seems that Hyde wanted an absurd sum of money for his invention too. The reson I brought his machine up at all was because it was a handy, relatively well-known reference point for this type of rotational E/S generator. I was remiss in not mentioning the small point that it was bogus :-) In my opinion, the machine truly worthy of reexamination is the "Parametric Electric Machine" invented by Ferdinand Cap (#4,622,510) based on the 1930's research of Mandleshtam and Papaleksi. It is referenced in the Hyde patent. Though this is a very simple machine in principle, only slight modifications would allow it to be overunity, based on my research on nonreciprocal systems. The Cap machine consists of one or more sets of vane-like metal rotors between fixed capacitor plates. The capacitance of the plates is in series with a load and an inductor. When the vanes rotate the capacitance varies which parametrically induces a current through the load. There is no source of E/S excitation in the Cap machine, all the energy is derived parametrically. If you picture a single half-circular vane rotor passing across a half-circular capacitor stator you will see that, just as there is no output power from standard E/S induction, there is no mechanical loading from this cause: the energy needed to move the rotor off the stator is equal to that gained by moving it onto the stator. The situation is conservative. However, there is loading due to the parametric induction. The output of a parametric machine is at half the frequency of the input (in this case, rotation). In the one-vane system described above, this means that the current induced in the output circuit opposes the rotation twice in each cycle. My proposed modification to the Cap machine (in its simplest form) uses two electrically separate half-circular capacitive stators connected to two separate loads and inductors, keeping the one rotating vane. The two parametric output currents are 180 degrees out of phase with each other so that any mechanical forces which might oppose the rotor's movement are cancelled by vector addition (one pushes as the other pulls). The only mechanical losses are frictional and can be mostly overcome by good design. Anybody who is interested in more building details let me know. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 12 16:24:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA10556; Mon, 12 May 1997 16:14:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:14:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3377A345.5C59@alliance.net> Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 19:09:57 -0400 From: I C V R X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Capacitor design help needed References: <199705120831.SAA03573@main.murray.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P0ixJ2.0.qa2.fHwTp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3053 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have fabricated a lot HKV caps from 30KV up to 200KV ranging up to a full fared. Using a 55galon plastic drum. (Now there is a big capacitor) It seems to me that your are striving for some sort of high frequency resonating circuit. Well you giving some thought into this so let me put my 2 cents in. From what I see this….. First.: If you intend to apply any HKV to this can, you will find that the outer can will be charged and extremely dangerous, even lethal. Second: If a HKV is to be applied to this capacitor, I would definitely use pure mineral oil. Air is is not a good insulator with HKV and the cans will ark, therefor no capacitance. I don't know why you wont to use a pica fared capacitor. But if you are trying for something close to a fared or .5f then you need to increase your plate size tremendously. Good luck and keep pulsating. I ndependent C urrent V oltage R esearch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 12 16:57:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA16057; Mon, 12 May 1997 16:43:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:43:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3377B8D5.10E8@cmet.net> Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 20:41:57 -0400 From: ce3cwf = felix meyer Reply-To: ce3cwf@cmet.net Organization: CE3CWF X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hyde generator References: <3377642E.2EB2@mail.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1gEFt3.0.lw3.QiwTp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3054 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred B. Epps wrote: > > > I neglected to mention in my reference to the Hyde generator that it > didn't work :-) > I know that George Hathaway and (I think) others have built and tested > this machine and they have not even found the circuit behaviour that > Hyde described, much less overunity performance. I'm working from memory > here, but it seems that Hyde wanted an absurd sum of money for his > invention too. > The reson I brought his machine up at all was because it was a handy, > relatively well-known reference point for this type of rotational E/S > generator. I was remiss in not mentioning the small point that it was > bogus :-) ... ... --- Thanks Fred, for your excellent comment. By studying the Hyde Gen. I came to the conclusion that the output circuit is a nonsense. By changing the output circuit and preventing the error in circuiting the stator segments 82 of Fig.3, the design might work correctly. gyroscopically Felix -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 12 18:49:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA19864; Mon, 12 May 1997 18:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 18:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3377C217.7214@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:51:27 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple Ou Device Offline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jYwtq.0.Cs4.TAyTp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3055 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Sorry to say, but my patent attorney has pulled the plug. By the way, I closed the loop late last night! It is sort of ramp based. Not much power yet. It has been running (self powered) for 12 hours now. Must close now. I will post again as soon as posible. To all thouse of you who have built ramps, all I can say is get three linked ramps working and then study the second (middle) ramp. Think outside the square. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 12 20:25:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA28132; Mon, 12 May 1997 20:12:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 20:12:44 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 20:00:00 PST Subject: O/U Device & Gary Effect Message-ID: <19970302.200003.3174.0.tv@juno.com> References: <3377C217.7214@microtronics.com.au> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4,7-39 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"eY3NO2.0.Ut6.hmzTp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3056 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Since Mr. Watson's device is apparently based on the same principle as that of Wesley Gary (1874), is it not reasonable to re-examine this remarkable but ignored invention from the 19th centrury ? Even though the inventions of Wesley Gary and Greg Watson generate only flee power, they should not be dismissed as just toys. The GARY EFFECT (or Gary-Watson Effect) can certtainly be enhanced to any level of power when it is better understood. Consider the invention of Hans Coler as a possible example of such advancement. I think Beatty's electronic think-tank is working ! Tim Vaughan (tv@juno.com) On 5/5/97 Greg Watson wrote: >My method of generation the graduated B field for the ramp and exit is >very different. Its the exit where its all at. Side to side balancing >of the magnetic forces is critical. The ball must always stay balanced >or on the "Neutral Line" as Wesley Gary would say. And then on 5/13/97 Greg wrote: > I closed the loop late last night! It is sort of ramp >based. Not much power yet. It has been running (self powered) for 12 >hours now. >To all thouse of you who have built ramps, all I can say is get three >linked ramps working and then study the second (middle) ramp. Think >outside the square. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 >Home/Office/Fax > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 12 21:21:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA08793; Mon, 12 May 1997 21:13:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 21:13:12 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 13 May 97 16:12 NZST X-Sender: srae@shoppe.mlb.planet.gen.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz (Stuart Rae) Subject: Re: Hyde generator X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"ZObVQ3.0.J92.Nf-Tp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3057 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Fred, You wrote: >However, there is loading due to the parametric induction. The output >of a parametric machine is at half the frequency of the input (in this >case, rotation). In the one-vane system described above, this means that >the current induced in the output circuit opposes the rotation twice in >each cycle. > >My proposed modification to the Cap machine (in its simplest form) >uses two electrically separate half-circular capacitive stators >connected to two separate loads and inductors, keeping the one rotating >vane. The two parametric output currents are 180 degrees out of phase >with each other so that any mechanical forces which might oppose the >rotor's movement are cancelled by vector addition (one pushes as the >other pulls). >snip This Cap patent is extremely interesting. I note he claims some 1050 volts at 300 Hz output. Do you think it would be possible to accomplish the same parametric action by simply switching in and out capacitance at an appropriate moment - i.e. at twice the resonant frequency? Would this overcome the problem of loading due to parametric induction? Or has this idea been been discussed before - I have a vague idea it has. If so, did anyone do any experiments, or come to any informed conclusions? > Anybody who is interested in more building details let me know. Yes please, I'm most interested. Regards, SR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 12 22:07:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA18068; Mon, 12 May 1997 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 06:49:48 +0200 Message-Id: <199705130449.GAA27384@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re:Greg Watson´s perpetual motion machine ! Resent-Message-ID: <"YZ-ia.0.EQ4.gF_Tp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3058 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:51 13.05.97 +0930, gwatson@microtronics.com.au wrote: >Hi All, > >Sorry to say, but my patent attorney has pulled the plug. > >By the way, I closed the loop late last night! It is sort of ramp >based. Not much power yet. It has been running (self powered) for 12 >hours now. Must close now. > >I will post again as soon as posible. > >To all thouse of you who have built ramps, all I can say is get three >linked ramps working and then study the second (middle) ramp. Think >outside the square. > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > Dear Greg, congratulations again to you to make it happen. Long hard work finally paid off ! :) Well, after I have speaken to you on the phone, I wanted still to add to you and all the other guys, who work on theses systems, that you could probably extract some small electrical energy by putting a few coils around the ramp magnets. As you have used the ramps inside the rotor this would be probably much more complicated, but if you build it the other way around, that you would have the ramps as the stator and the "ball" as the rotor, then it could be easily done, that you wind a few coils and place them onto the permanent magnets and as the "ball" moves accross the ramps there will be some induction voltage inside the coils. Also it would be very interesting to study the waveform of this induction voltage. This could also maybe lead to a better understanding of the physics effects involved there. You could probably not draw much power out of the coils, but if you could at least run a LED lighting in the night with it, hey, that would be a first step ! :) Good luck with your patent application ! Hope you can soon report a lot more. Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 13 00:12:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA15129; Tue, 13 May 1997 00:09:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 00:09:08 -0700 Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:40:33 +1000 Message-Id: <199705130840.SAA09274@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re:Help need to build wally minto wheel Resent-Message-ID: <"Ax5UB1.0.Ji3.JE1Up"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3059 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have recieved a request for some construction detials for the Wally Minto Temperature wheel could anyone with some details Please send an email to the the following Address and help him out (please) Paul Skelly >Thanking you in advance > >Geoff Egel >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 13 03:36:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA24913; Tue, 13 May 1997 01:35:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 01:35:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3377F20D.72CF@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 21:46:05 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU device offline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QmXJB2.0.B56.CV2Up"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3060 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, I'm sure I will be only one of many to say CONGRATULATIONS!!! Best of luck on the future development of your device! Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 13 07:12:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA05918 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 13 May 1997 07:12:40 -0700 Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 07:12:40 -0700 X-Envelope-From: little@eden.com Tue May 13 07:12:33 1997 Received: from natasha.eden.com (root@ntpserv.eden.com [199.171.21.14]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA05833; Tue, 13 May 1997 07:12:32 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (net-3-043.austin.eden.com [206.81.244.43]) by natasha.eden.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA27651; Tue, 13 May 1997 09:12:12 -0500 (CDT) Old-Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 09:12:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199705131412.JAA27651@natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little@mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Simple Ou Device Offline X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: At 10:51 5/13/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >Sorry to say, but my patent attorney has pulled the plug. OK, you don't have to tell us anything about the workings of yr device, but... >By the way, I closed the loop late last night! It is sort of ramp >based. Not much power yet. It has been running (self powered) for 12 >hours now. I would appreciate a more detailed description of this phenomena. As I presently understand it, you have a ball or some such roller that moves around in a more-or-less circular path thru a series of magnetic ramps and this roller continues to move around and around by itself...totally unaided by any external means whatsoever (including powered switching mechanisms that you think are not putting energy into the loop)? Again, Greg, don't feel obliged to reveal any details of your invention...just describe in considerable detail what it's _performance_ is. Please include a description of any nearby devices that might be delivering power to the subject device. Along those lines, have you tried moving your invention to a new location to see if it still works? Thanks Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little@eden.com (email) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 13 11:43:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA03267; Tue, 13 May 1997 09:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 09:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC5F7F.C2FD3270@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Simple Ou Device Offline Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 09:26:38 -0700 Encoding: 28 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"E_W--.0.io.jn9Up"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3061 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Congratulations, Greg! I hope the next steps go well for you. Of course, I'm also anxious to hear more about it when you're free to do so. I've just ordered a batch of Neodymium magnets, enough to experiment with multiple ramps. Also hoping to get more lift. It's frustrating how little net power we can get from these ramps. I'm working with the idea of making the field contours less "thick" in the vertical axis, and other ways to shape the field for better exit. If you're still working with a ball rolling on a track, I had these ideas: - try a non-metallic but low-friction track. This would eliminate any opposing induced fields in the track. How about a couple of glass rods? - vary the width of the track relative to the ball. This changes the rotational velocity of the ball; a wider track makes the ball rotate faster but slows its forward velocity. One way to use this is to have a very narrow track for more forward momentum. Then make it wider just at the end; this would slow its forward speed (and start it dropping) but increase the angular velocity, giving it more of a roll over the edge. Once over the edge the track could narrow again. Dan Quickert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 13 12:21:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA22945; Tue, 13 May 1997 11:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 11:53:40 -0700 (PDT) To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 11:30:41 PST Subject: Real over unity devices Message-ID: <19970303.113045.11822.0.tv@juno.com> References: <3377C217.7214@microtronics.com.au> <33789A2C.321B@interlaced.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,3-12,14,16-17,19,21-23,25,27-32,34-37,40,44,46-48, 50-52,54,57,59-63,66-71 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"L5pqK.0.Zb5.IYBUp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3062 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If Greg Watson does not want to tell us how he built his ball and track gizmo, it really does not matter. It will only be a matter of time before these types of magnetic motors are going to be popping up all over the world. I believe this for the following reasons: 1. We now can be more confident than ever that it is possible to build perpetual motion machines and free energy devices of the 2nd kind. (Apparently violating the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics). 2. We know of at least one other well documented device that used the same principle and produced the same magnitude of power output (between flea and mouse), the Gary Magnet Motor. 3. Hans Coler demonstrated that solid state ferromagnetic devices can be made to produce substantial power output (up 5 KW in the most advanced model). He was even given money by the German Government to develop his technology and demonstrate it to Hitler near the end of the war. Fortunately, for the rest of the world at that time, the Third Reich did not get to exploit this technology. 4. Even a low powered self-driven device demonstrates that the 2nd Law does not preclude the possibility of cohering fluctuation energy as predicted by the Nobel Laureate Physicist Percy William Bridgman. (Read his book, THE NATURE OF THERMODYNAMICS) The ferromagnetic ratchet mechanisms at work in these devices are not well understood and so the conditions under which they operate is not clear. However, the invention of Wesley Gary shows that the fluctuation coherence effects are more apparent when there is a transition boundary established in the magnetic material (the Neutral Line). Both Wesley Gary and Hans Coler had devices that were difficult to adjust and depended on proper conditioning of the iron components that cohered the energy. The Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger (current creator) was able to produce substantial power levels. However, the Gary Magnetic motor is probably a better target for someone who would like to demonstrate a free energy device. Once the conditions are better understood, the solid state design like that of Hans Coler should be the best source of energy yet developed ! If you are interested in building a free energy machine, check out the Gary Magnet Motor. I have it posted on the Web at < http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810 > Gary demonstrated this device to numerous witnesses and openly described its principles and construction as he understood them. Since his device only produced enough power to keep itself moving, (like Watson's ball and track machine), it did not gather the interest that it should have in the 1870's when people were looking for machines that "would do peoples work". To learn more about Hans Coler check out < http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3752/hcoler1.htm >. It is from the British Intelligence report from Project Paperclip. Project Paperclip was the massive gathering of large amounts of technical information from Germany at the end of WWII. Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 13 14:08:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA09205; Tue, 13 May 1997 13:51:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 13:51:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33789E37.655B@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:00:39 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: hheffner@corecom.net Subject: Lorentz force Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nwAlV3.0.kF2.7HDUp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3063 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Horace, At the risk of beating a dead horse it still seems like my research on Hall and Corbino effects has relevance to your thermal drift theory. > The primary objective of this paper is to demonstrate an inconsistency > between the second law of thermodynamics and the Lorentz force. The Hall effect and Corbino effects are Lorentz force effects. For comparison purposes it's best to refer to the third Corbino effect: A metallic disc with electrodes at center and periphery will show a potential across those electrodes if a changing, nonreversing magnetic field is applied at right angles. This is not an EM inductive effect in the usual sense and it is not eddy currents. This is demonstrated by the fact that the effect DECREASES with magnetic field intensities above .8 T for Bismuth, the material with the highest Corbino coefficient. It is a Lorentz force effect. The Lorentz force effects are nonreciprocal, that is, there is no back EMF imposed on the changing magnetic field. The current flow through the disc produces a field at right angles to the changing field. Changing the magnetic field in an area of space does not require energy. As a thought experiment, imagine a cylindrical magnet projecting at right angles from a spinning rod. A Hall effect sensor will detect a changing magnetic field but this detection process does not slow the rod down. An inductive sensor on the other hand will slow it down. A very simple overunity device could be made consisting of such a rod/ pole magnet combination surrounded by these Corbino discs. A small motor maintains rotation against frictional forces. A less "efficient" version could be made, as I have said, with the magnet as part of a high Q tank circuit. I am not trying to conflate our researches together, they are obviously quite different. But my entirely different line of attack leads to the same conclusion: Orthogonal forces like the Lorentz effect are nonreciprocal (gyroscopic) and thus violate Newton's law of action and reaction, and thus violate so-called "laws" of thermodynamics. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 13 14:56:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA13922; Tue, 13 May 1997 14:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 14:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33795716.6635@tu-bs.de> Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 23:09:26 -0700 From: Tameer Hohnsbein Reply-To: T.Hohnsbein@tu-bs.de Organization: Technische Universität Braunschweig X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple Ou Device Offline References: <3377C217.7214@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m253t2.0.yO3.GmDUp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3064 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Greg, Congratulations !!! I was a bit astonished. I already came to know you from your postings as a modest man, but first I couldn't believe it that you wrote : > By the way, I closed the loop late last night! Your invention is not something like "by the way". As I see it it was hard work to do. Surely something you can really be proud of !!! Hurray ! You have made it happen !!! I wish you the very best for your next steps. Please put the plug into your patent attorney ;-) and after you have your device patented please come back soon. Good luck! :-) -- Best regards Tameer _________________________________________ Tameer Hohnsbein Hagenring 80, 38106 Braunschweig, Germany E-Mail: T.Hohnsbein@tu-bs.de phone : ++49 531 / 335348 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 13 15:54:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA23066; Tue, 13 May 1997 15:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 15:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:22:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199705132222.RAA23836@bluestem.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Real over unity devices Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"scRCX1.0.Ee5.WhEUp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3065 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >4. Even a low powered self-driven device demonstrates that the 2nd Law >does > not preclude the possibility of cohering fluctuation energy as >predicted by > the Nobel Laureate Physicist Percy William Bridgman. > (Read his book, THE NATURE OF THERMODYNAMICS) > Also see the works of Nobel laureate Ilya Prigogine (non-equilibrium statistical mechanics). Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 13 15:57:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA02164; Tue, 13 May 1997 15:46:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 15:46:40 -0700 Message-ID: <3378EF06.2666@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:15:26 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple Rotary Ou Device Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VcWRe3.0.dX.GzEUp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3066 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Just a short note to try to answer those questions I can. 1) There is NO outside power source. 2) The device contains only ceramic magnet and ferromagnetic materials (some balsa, a few bearings and some plactic "U" channel as well). 3) The device produces rotary torque. Can be stopped with very little pressure from two fingers on a steel 4mm shaft. 4) The device has been moved to the middle of my lounge and my back garden. It still works. 5) The device will not auto start. However the energy necessary to start is only that required to overcome friction. 6) I don't think the device is worthy of a Nobel or my picture on Business Week. I know of several other devices (Finstrud, Gary, Kawai, Bob Shannon's Barkenhausen Effect Battery and many US patents) which show magnetic devices can do work. For some strange reason, we seem to "Not want to believe" or maybe just want to believe in our own area of research as the "One true path". 7) I have posted enough details and ideas for those of you who REALLY want to duplicate the device to do so. Read my postings. 8) Much work still remains to be able to light a 1 watt bulb. When I can do that, I will make available through Stephan's and Bill's OU web sites a Mpeg of the device working. If I can't light a bulb, it will still make a nice toy and maybe a starting place for someone else. 9) The magnets don't appear to be getting weaker or colder, but then I am not generating much power yet. 10) I still call the effect DNMEC (Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion). Like my flux gate DNMEC effect, both these effects revolve around ferromagnetic and magnet interactions. I believe the Kawai motor is another variation of the DNMEC effect (like the Rod & Coil we discussed earlier). Come on guys (and gals), start thinking outside of the square. There is always more than one way to crack eggs. Stop talking .............. BUILD SOMETHING!!!!!!!!! -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 13 18:57:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA32365; Tue, 13 May 1997 18:39:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:39:08 -0700 Message-ID: <3379158D.39FA@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:59:49 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Greg & Shirley Watson Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4CAA1C6B5C51" Resent-Message-ID: <"Sevxb.0.Vv7.xUHUp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3067 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4CAA1C6B5C51 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, For those of you who asked, here is a photo (about 1 year old) of my wife Shirley & I. I have made a video of the device. I am having it turned into a Mpeg. Thanks for all the supportive posts, but I really don't think my device is all that great. I have been in business too long not to understand that there is a very long and rocky road until I or others can offer a 10kw home unit for sale. I really believe someone else will achieve a better solution. Just remember : "None of us is as smart as all of us" Think outside the square and BUILD SOMETHING...................! -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. 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gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple Rotary Ou Device References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"18yCg3.0.vi.fkHUp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3068 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > > I disagree about the Nobel. Should Tesla/Marconi not be recognized, just > because H. Hertz was there first? That sort of thing doesn't really turn me on. > Best of luck at slipping a "pm" machine through the patent process! Is > the system in .au more tolerant towards this sort of thing than in .usa? By "pm" I suppose you mean perpetual motion? We will cover that the same way Johnson did in his rotary magnet motor. Suggest where the energy is coming from. We will also have a working device for them to test. > > 7) I have posted enough details and ideas for those of you who REALLY > > want to duplicate the device to do so. Read my postings. > > I hope this is true, but you can't know this until someone else is > sucessful. Think about Heathkit instructions: it took DC Heath many > passes of beta testing to create instructions which people could follow. > Humans bring preconceptions with them to any task, even humans with > expertise in the field. If your preconceptions are slightly different > than everyone elses, then you can give out all sorts of information, yet > everyone will keep making the same mistake, or exhibiting the same bit of > blindness, and will be unable to do what you've done. As a hint, think of how to build a ramp where the field graduations REDUCE as the ball rolls up the ramp. Sounds impossible, but I guarantee it can be done. Think outside the square. Then BUILD IT!!!!!!!!!! > .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. > William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 > EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ > Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 13 19:39:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA24420; Tue, 13 May 1997 19:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC5FE4.D35B75E0@littledeuce-coupe.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" , "neotech@xbn.shore.net" , "newman-l@emachine.com" , "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Subject: RE: Simple Ou Device Offline Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:10:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jdEII1.0.Oz5.2HIUp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3069 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What did you use to build your device and would you care to give me directions on building it? BTW: when you are done you might want to get that independent study, or whatever it is. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 13 20:15:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA27999; Tue, 13 May 1997 20:02:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:02:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33792A60.6D52@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 22:58:40 -0400 From: David DeLeo Reply-To: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg & Shirley Watson References: <3379158D.39FA@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"D1UG61.0.Or6.JjIUp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3070 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Thanks for all the supportive posts, but I really don't think my device > is all that great. I have been in business too long not to understand > that there is a very long and rocky road until I or others can offer a > 10kw home unit for sale. > Greg, Give yourself the credit you deserve.... You have worked hard on the development of this device and you succeded. Sure the comercial aspects of it have not been worked out, but the priciple is there. Remember the Wright brothers, their first plane skimmed the ground for about 100 yards or so (not much by modern terms, also not very usefull comercialy, certainly no Concorde) but it was the first powered flight and they deserve the credit they have recieved. So do you. You made the first? successful pm machine, the 10kw unit will come with time. Let me know when you are ready for investors..... Good Luck, Dave DeLeo ddeleo@ix.netcom.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 14 08:23:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA00378 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 14 May 1997 08:23:28 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:23:28 -0700 X-Envelope-From: Puthoff@aol.com Wed May 14 08:23:24 1997 Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com (emout18.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.44]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA15158; Wed, 14 May 1997 07:13:14 -0700 From: Puthoff@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id KAA08560; Wed, 14 May 1997 10:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970514101237_1414979292@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple Rotary Ou Device X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Greg, In a message dated 5/14/97 6:02:25 AM, you wrote: <> By this do you mean that the field intensity reduces, or that the gradient in the intensity (force) reduces? Hal Puthoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 14 14:21:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA05703 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 14 May 1997 14:21:23 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:21:23 -0700 X-Envelope-From: harti@harti.com Wed May 14 14:21:16 1997 Received: from mail.bbtt.com ([193.203.161.7]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA05511; Wed, 14 May 1997 14:20:47 -0700 Received: from ns.bbtt.de ([193.203.161.162]) by mail.bbtt.com (8.6.9/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA10690; Wed, 14 May 1997 23:23:54 +0200 Old-Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 23:23:54 +0200 Message-Id: <199705142123.XAA10690@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@shell2.ba.best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Simple Rotary Ou Device X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: At 08:15 14.05.97 +0930, gwatson@microtronics.com.au wrote: >Hi All, > >Just a short note to try to answer those questions I can. > > >1) There is NO outside power source. > >2) The device contains only ceramic magnet and ferromagnetic materials >(some balsa, a few bearings and some plactic "U" channel as well). > >3) The device produces rotary torque. Can be stopped with very little >pressure from two fingers on a steel 4mm shaft. > > Hi Greg, one important question. What is the revolution per minute of your device ? Can you at least post a JPEG pic of it, just showing the "body case housing" of it, not revealing the contens ? ( So that nobody can say, Greg is just "joking"..) How big (size) is it in this moment ? I talked with Dieter Bauer about your PM motor today and he suggested that it might work on eddy currents building up in the iron stator and thus the "V" form is important how fast the iron is sucked into the rotating track and how fast it gets out. Maybe you could try it with ferrite as the stator material and if this still works, eddy currents do not play any role... He also has some ideas of a theory of moving "potentials" which are NOT conservative he told me, so energy could be generated by these "moving potentials". He will try to formulate this with some new mathematical formulas ! Good luck for your patent application. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 14 15:06:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA29837; Wed, 14 May 1997 15:06:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:06:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <337A36BD.79AC@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 07:33:41 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple Rotary Ou Device References: <970514101237_1414979292@emout18.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"65axN1.0.1I7.uSZUp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3071 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Puthoff@aol.com wrote: > > Greg, > > In a message dated 5/14/97 6:02:25 AM, you wrote: > > < REDUCE as the ball rolls up the ramp. >> > > By this do you mean that the field intensity reduces, or that the gradient in > the intensity (force) reduces? > > Hal Puthoff Hi Hal, The field intensity decreases along the uphill path. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 14 16:03:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA15520; Wed, 14 May 1997 16:02:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:02:47 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705142302.TAA19720@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Tesla To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:02:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"0oOr22.0.Ko3.LIaUp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3072 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Tesla book store has been updated! http://www.frognet.net/~cantino/tesla/tesla.html -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 14 16:19:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA12047; Wed, 14 May 1997 16:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC6093.1556CB80@isetta.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "gwatson@microtronics.com.au" Cc: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" , "neotech@xbn.shore.net" , "newman-l@emachine.com" , "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Subject: RE: Greg & Shirley Watson Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:42:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"g3JB32.0.8y2.ZXaUp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3073 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I would invest too, but my funds are very low at the moment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 14 16:23:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA19876; Wed, 14 May 1997 16:23:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:23:03 -0700 Message-ID: <337AB96C.48A3@netcomuk.co.uk> Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:21:16 -0700 From: Rob King Organization: Me X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-NC260 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple OU Device Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3BOGn3.0.Hs4.LbaUp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3074 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, Con-grats on getting the looped closed on your device. Like a lot of people I have been watching your posts with baited breath, waiting for the point at which you succeed and you have, well done! As soon as I saw your post I went downstairs to the kitchen, fetched out all my magnets, 2 alu carpet gripper rods, a mouse ball and had a play. I set up the magnets in an arrow shape under the track with like poles acting towards the centre of the rod. \\\ \\\\\\\\ =========================0======= //////// /// It seemed to go further along the track when there were magnets there, but I cannot be absolutely sure, because I may tend to push the ball quicker with the magnets in place because I want it to work. I would love some pointers to get me off in the right direction with trying to reproduce this, anything you can give me? I cannot help thinking that the answer to it working has something to do with the ball rolling though the field. In other words it would fail to work if the ball was attached to an arm that passed it though the device. Maybe the Searl device works on a similar principle. Look forward to hearing from you :) Rob King From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 14 21:30:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA05876; Wed, 14 May 1997 21:30:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 21:30:24 -0700 Message-ID: <337A9101.7567@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 13:58:49 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Device References: <337AB96C.48A3@netcomuk.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"padyn2.0.eR1.U5fUp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3075 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rob King wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > Con-grats on getting the looped closed on your device. > Like a lot of people I have been watching your posts with baited breath, > waiting for the point at which you succeed and you have, well done! > > As soon as I saw your post I went downstairs to the kitchen, fetched out > all my magnets, 2 alu carpet gripper rods, a mouse ball and had a play. > > I set up the magnets in an arrow shape under the track with like poles > acting towards the centre of the rod. In my magnetic ramps, the poles are unlike ie NS Ball NS with varing magnetic strength to the top. Your setup is interesting and I will give it a try. Repelling poles cause sometimes strange effects. > \\\ > \\\\\\\\ > =========================0======= > //////// > /// > > It seemed to go further along the track when there were magnets there, > but I cannot be absolutely sure, because I may tend to push the ball > quicker with the magnets in place because I want it to work. Would suggest you bend up a bit of the track at the start (not too much) and always release the ball at the top of the ramp. This will reduce variations in release energy and allow you to try different magnet configs. > I would love some pointers to get me off in the right direction with > trying to reproduce this, anything you can give me? Experiment, but try to develope testing systems which reduce human variations. > I cannot help thinking that the answer to it working has something to do > with the ball rolling though the field. In other words it would fail to > work if the ball was attached to an arm that passed it though the device. > > Maybe the Searl device works on a similar principle. > > Look forward to hearing from you :) > > Rob King Hi Rob, My rotary device doesn't use a ramp (well as least not a angled ramp). Keep building, it can happen! -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 14 23:58:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA19891; Wed, 14 May 1997 23:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 23:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:30:08 +1000 Message-Id: <199705150830.SAA22402@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Need to find a supplier of ferrite rods In Australia Resent-Message-ID: <"3iWeH3.0.fs4._FhUp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3076 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:48 PM 5/8/97 +1000, you wrote: >Could someone on this newsgroup inform where I can purchase a ferrite rod to the following dimensions in Australia >> ferrite rods "an inch and a half >in diameter and nine or ten inches in length". >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel > >Geoff > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 15 00:12:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA02467; Thu, 15 May 1997 00:12:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:12:44 -0700 X-Sender: otecnor@emirates.net.ae (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 11:31:44 +0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: otecnor@emirates.net.ae (otecnor) Subject: Re: OBRL - Your vote needed to block new Nazi Usenet group Resent-Message-ID: <"v2vNU1.0.Sc.hThUp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3077 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi everybody, I now the herbelow message does not relate to the activities of this email list,but I know for sure that if such people were left in power there may be no more email list as this one,also,please,"lets put some sand in their wheels" it will only take you few seconds... Apologise again for the disgression. Best Wishes to all -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Orgone Biophysical Research Lab http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm Forwarded News Item Please copy and distribute to other interested individuals and groups ********** Submitted by Friedeman Becker, Germany > We have understood that a few Neo-Nazi groups are trying to create > (again) a usenet group where they want to keep in contact with each other > regarding their activities. I believe it is not necessary to dwell further > on these activities. > The group is rec.music.white-power > To create such a group, they have to win a referendum that is always > organised when a new usenet group is created. All persons with an email > address, and only those, can vote in this referendum. > It is IMPORTANT to vote only once, otherwise the vote is cancelled. > To prevent the creation of this group, you have to: > 1. Send this message to people you know > 2. Send an email to the following address: > music-vote@sub-rosa.com > with as contents (not 'subject') ONLY the following line: > I vote NO on rec.music.white-power > Since the vote is automatic, it is IMPORTANT to send the exact line as it > is given above, without adding anything, not even a name. And please send > it only once or it becomes invalid ! Also, > PLEASE FORWARD THIS LETTER TO > EVERYONE YOU KNOW WITH AN E-MAIL > ADDRESS TO PREVENT THE GROUP FOUNDERS > FROM CREATING THIS GROUP. ------ End of forwarded message ------- FRANCK ROUSSEL http://www.infoemirates.com/otecnor otecnor@emirates.net.ae Tel: -- 971 4 341 335 Fax: -- 971 4 341 271 Po box 4613 Dubai United Arab Emirates Time: GMT + 4 FRANCK ROUSSEL http://www.infoemirates.com/otecnor otecnor@emirates.net.ae Tel: -- 971 4 341 335 Fax: -- 971 4 341 271 Po box 4613 Dubai United Arab Emirates Time: GMT + 4 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 15 12:16:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA14257; Thu, 15 May 1997 12:15:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:15:00 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@best.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:16:04 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Schauberger Seminar Announcement Resent-Message-ID: <"zSj1o2.0.cU3.p2sUp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3078 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 22:51:19 -0700 From: Stephan Fuelling MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pgb@padrak.com Subject: Schauberger Seminar Announcement Dear Pat, I received a letter that was forwarded to me from Germany about a series of seminars in Bad Ischl, Austria. The schedule is July 11 - 13, July 14 - 17, and July 18 - 20. Title " Seminarreihe PKS & Familie Schauberger, Bad Ischl, Sommer 1997". PKS stands for 'Pythagoras - Kepler - Schule'. There is a forth seminar from July 25 - July 27, which is targeted to exchange experience of practitioners. I think with 'practitioners' are meant experimenters. The seminars are most definitely held in German, but if anybody is interested, I can fax or send copies of the seminar announcements to people that are interested. Seminar 1: 7/11 - 7/13 Victor Schauberger - Personality and concept of his teaching of nature: - Structural ignorance, the obstacle on the way to a better energy future - The protection of forest and water requires the respect of nature: The work of Victor Schauberger as an exemplary figure - From the observation of water to techniques in hydraulic engineering - Movie about 'Schwemmanlage' (alluvial plant ?) in Neuberg, sound recordings of Victor Schauberger Seminar 2: 7/14 - 7/17 Advanced Studies: - Substance and energy conversion processes from the viewpoint of Victor Schauberger - The 'roll in system' from the viewpoint of Victor Schauberger - Protection of water bodies requires the knowledge of the structure and the behavior of water. - Presentation of the CD-ROM "Water - the Blood of the Earth" - Structural ignorance, the obstacle on the way to a better energy future Seminar 3: 7/18 - 7/20 Basic Studies: - Victor Schauberger's observation in nature and conclusion - Victor Schauberger's practical works - Victor Schauberger's view with regards to substance and energy conversion processes - Construction view points for processes and devices adopted from nature - Nature's mathematics by Walter Schauberger - Reaction devices under the application of vortex processes Seminar 4: 7/25 - 7/27 Experience exchange of practitioners (experimenters): - Water thread experiment - Flow experiment with hyperbolical cylinders - 'Wendelrohr' (spiral tube), 'Sogwendel' (suction tube), and home power generator - Double membrane ('Repulsator', 'Repulsine') (I can't translate that, these are Victor Schaubergers own word inventions) - Agricultural devices made of copper - Chronology of inventions by Walter and Victor Schauberger The costs for seminar 1 or 3 are S 2,700.- each (about $230) for individuals and S 2,100 each (about $180) for students or retirees. The cost for seminar 2 is S 3,500.- (about $300) for individuals and S 2,800 (about $240) each for students or retirees. Accommodations can be made through the Kurdirektion (visitor center) Bad Ischl. The costs per day (incl. breakfast) are between S 1070.- (about $90) and S 370.- (about $35) per person. The dollar amounts are an educated guess of mine, and are not necessarily very accurate, but they should be within the bulk part. There is an e-mail address for reservations: schauberger@pks.or.at You might want to distribute this to your news group, and maybe post it also on your web page, if you like. The above is only a summary of the announcement I received by mail, but it reflects what it is about. With best regards, Stephan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 15 15:24:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA19063; Thu, 15 May 1997 15:24:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:24:17 -0700 Message-Id: <337B8CBB.726@centuryinter.net> Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 17:22:51 -0500 From: andrew Reply-To: gyro@centuryinter.net Organization: the truth is out there X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: keely's craft Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rRZc93.0.kf4.GquUp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3079 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Does anyone have any information about Keely's flying device ? -- ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ? ?...The truth is out there, ? ? if you know where to look...? ? -andrew r. ? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 15 15:39:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA20866; Thu, 15 May 1997 15:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 17:35:27 -0500 (CDT) From: John Fields Subject: Re: keely's craft To: andrew cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <337B8CBB.726@centuryinter.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"97J0G3.0.w55.72vUp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3080 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 15 May 1997, andrew wrote: > Does anyone have any information about Keely's flying device ? > -- > ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > ? ? > ?...The truth is out there, ? > ? if you know where to look...? > ? -andrew r. ? > ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? -------------------------------------------------------------- andrew, The truth is out there, whether you know where to look or not. John Fields ----------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 15 15:50:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA23286; Thu, 15 May 1997 15:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <337B92BD.605A@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 08:18:29 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple Rotary Ou Device References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"d2o6N3.0.Ih5.iCvUp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3081 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > > On Thu, 15 May 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > > > William Beaty wrote: > > > > > > Greg, does your rotary device have a perfectly circular path inside, or is > > > the active member moving up and down against gravity? > > > > Yes. > > Oops! 'Yes' it's a perfect circle, or 'yes' it's moving up and down? If > it moves up and down, then the path is more like a cylindrical surface. > (If it's a perfect circle, then the ball could easily be glued to the edge > of a wheel.) Up and down. > > > The ramp devices and the Finstrud device > > > both require gravity for operation. If your rotary version also usues > > > gravity, then perhaps the effect depends on gravity and cannot occur > > > without up/down motion. > > > > At present that is true, however I am currently building a new device > > which doesn't use gravity. There are many other linear restortative > > forces available. > > Have you seen o/u effects when no ramps were used? In other words, if you > flatten out your magnet ramp device, does the excess speed seem to become > less? I'm still wondering if gravity might be required. It's one thing > to theorize that gravity MAY not be necessary, or that another force MIGHT > be able to be substituted. It's quite a different matter to have tested > it and know for sure. Flattened ramps can MOVE objects with very little mag differential. > > I suspect wheel mounted balls will not work. The ramp works, I believe > > because the field contours up the ramp and on exit are different. > > So, if the iron ball takes a perfectly straight (not sawtooth) path > through the device, there's no way to juggle the magnet positions in order > to produce the o/u drive effect? There seems to be many active elements : 1) Highly distorted magnetic fields. 2) Highly different field contours on entry and exit, somewhat tied to ball size. 3) Differential restortative forces on entry and exit. 4) Staying on the centre line between the magnets. Sort of like Wesley Gary's experiments. This really complicates things as the ball experiences many magnetic forces. 5) Ball size and "U" channel width. 6) Physical geometry of the exit path (critical). 7) Probably some others I haven't thought of YET. > Imagine this: flatten the ramp, then curve it upwards slightly. Then, > rather than releasing a free iron ball, instead fling an iron pendulum bob > through the slot. If the length of the pendulum string matches the radius > of ramp curvature, then you have a nearly-frictionless system. Of course > the gravity effects at the exit of the ramp are gone. But if a > "flattened" magnet ramp device can work, then a curved one should work > too, no? The curvature could be pretty slight. If the pendulum is > attached to a 9ft ceiling, a 10inch magnet track's curvature would be > nearly undetectable. Hi Bill, I haven't been able to get a straight ramp to release a ball, but I haven't really done a lot of work on this. My throught are that the field contours are very severe on straight through exit. Look at the Gifs I posted on the field contours under the magnets. Very different than straight through exit. Johnson did a lot of work in this area. Seems the trick is to achieve a moderate field contour which somewhat matches the geometry of the ball and what is happening to its permeability movement on its B/H curve. I could be wrong here, but the data seems to be pointing that way. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 15 16:07:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA27168; Thu, 15 May 1997 16:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 16:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:04:01 -0500 (CDT) From: John Fields Subject: Re: OBRL - Your vote needed to block new Nazi Usenet group To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"rHe1c2.0.Ke6.YSvUp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3082 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 15 May 1997, otecnor wrote: > > Hi everybody, > > > I now the herbelow message does not relate to the activities of this email > list,but I know for sure that if such people were left in power there may > be no more email list as this one,also,please,"lets put some sand in their > wheels" it will only take you few seconds... > Apologise again for the disgression. > Best Wishes to all > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Orgone Biophysical Research Lab > http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm > Forwarded News Item > > Please copy and distribute to other interested individuals and groups > > ********** > > Submitted by Friedeman Becker, Germany > > > We have understood that a few Neo-Nazi groups are trying to create > > (again) a usenet group where they want to keep in contact with each other > > regarding their activities. I believe it is not necessary to dwell further > > on these activities. > > > The group is rec.music.white-power > > > To create such a group, they have to win a referendum that is always > > organised when a new usenet group is created. All persons with an email > > address, and only those, can vote in this referendum. > > It is IMPORTANT to vote only once, otherwise the vote is cancelled. > > > To prevent the creation of this group, you have to: > > 1. Send this message to people you know > > 2. Send an email to the following address: > > music-vote@sub-rosa.com > > with as contents (not 'subject') ONLY the following line: > > I vote NO on rec.music.white-power > > > Since the vote is automatic, it is IMPORTANT to send the exact line as it > > is given above, without adding anything, not even a name. And please send > > it only once or it becomes invalid ! Also, > > PLEASE FORWARD THIS LETTER TO > > EVERYONE YOU KNOW WITH AN E-MAIL > > ADDRESS TO PREVENT THE GROUP FOUNDERS > > FROM CREATING THIS GROUP. > > ------ End of forwarded message ------- > > FRANCK ROUSSEL > http://www.infoemirates.com/otecnor > otecnor@emirates.net.ae > Tel: -- 971 4 341 335 > Fax: -- 971 4 341 271 > Po box 4613 Dubai > United Arab Emirates > Time: GMT + 4 > > FRANCK ROUSSEL > http://www.infoemirates.com/otecnor > otecnor@emirates.net.ae > Tel: -- 971 4 341 335 > Fax: -- 971 4 341 271 > Po box 4613 Dubai > United Arab Emirates > Time: GMT + 4 --------------- Oh, I get it! First we block this Nazi group, then maybe another "unsavory" group, then maybe someone will ask us to block your comments, then... John Fields ----------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 15 17:26:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA12640; Thu, 15 May 1997 17:26:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 17:26:44 -0700 Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 11:59:47 +1000 Message-Id: <199705160159.LAA27233@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: OBRL - Your vote needed to block new Nazi Usenet group Resent-Message-ID: <"g4pnZ3.0.P53.3dwUp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3083 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:04 PM 5/15/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >On Thu, 15 May 1997, otecnor wrote: > >> >> Hi everybody, >> >> >> I now the herbelow message does not relate to the activities of this email >> list,but I know for sure that if such people were left in power there may >> be no more email list as this one,also,please,"lets put some sand in their >> wheels" it will only take you few seconds... >> Apologise again for the disgression. >> Best Wishes to all >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Orgone Biophysical Research Lab >> http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm >> Forwarded News Item >> >> Please copy and distribute to other interested individuals and groups >> >> ********** >> >> Submitted by Friedeman Becker, Germany >> >> > We have understood that a few Neo-Nazi groups are trying to create >> > (again) a usenet group where they want to keep in contact with each other >> > regarding their activities. I believe it is not necessary to dwell further >> > on these activities. >> >> > The group is rec.music.white-power >> >> > To create such a group, they have to win a referendum that is always >> > organised when a new usenet group is created. All persons with an email >> > address, and only those, can vote in this referendum. >> > It is IMPORTANT to vote only once, otherwise the vote is cancelled. >> >> > To prevent the creation of this group, you have to: >> > 1. Send this message to people you know >> > 2. Send an email to the following address: >> > music-vote@sub-rosa.com >> > with as contents (not 'subject') ONLY the following line: >> > I vote NO on rec.music.white-power >> >> > Since the vote is automatic, it is IMPORTANT to send the exact line as it >> > is given above, without adding anything, not even a name. And please send >> > it only once or it becomes invalid ! Also, >> > PLEASE FORWARD THIS LETTER TO >> > EVERYONE YOU KNOW WITH AN E-MAIL >> > ADDRESS TO PREVENT THE GROUP FOUNDERS >> > FROM CREATING THIS GROUP. >> >> ------ End of forwarded message ------- >> >> FRANCK ROUSSEL >> http://www.infoemirates.com/otecnor >> otecnor@emirates.net.ae >> Tel: -- 971 4 341 335 >> Fax: -- 971 4 341 271 >> Po box 4613 Dubai >> United Arab Emirates >> Time: GMT + 4 >> >> FRANCK ROUSSEL >> http://www.infoemirates.com/otecnor >> otecnor@emirates.net.ae >> Tel: -- 971 4 341 335 >> Fax: -- 971 4 341 271 >> Po box 4613 Dubai >> United Arab Emirates >> Time: GMT + 4 >--------------- >Oh, I get it! > >First we block this Nazi group, then maybe another "unsavory" group, then >maybe someone will ask us to block your comments, then... > >John Fields >----------- > >Whilst I don't agreee with the activities of any racial exclusive group I don't think they should be also not be be prevented from expressing an their views. Better to have it out in the open so all who wish can go and see what they are up to. > Geof From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 15 18:45:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA25203; Thu, 15 May 1997 18:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:44:45 -0700 (PDT) From: M2Milly@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:43:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970515214256_-1834390395@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: keely's craft Resent-Message-ID: <"VEj4H1.0.f96.AmxUp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3084 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 97-05-15 21:12:47 EDT, you write: << > Does anyone have any information about Keely's flying device ? > -- > ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > ? ? > ?...The truth is out there, ? > ? if you know where to look...? > ? -andrew r. ? > ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? -------------------------------------------------------------- andrew, The truth is out there, whether you know where to look or not. John Fields >> Methinks the truth is inside of each of us and I don't think its a place, but a personality -- intent not event. Polara :)) still smiling after all these years From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 15 20:41:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA15558; Thu, 15 May 1997 20:41:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:41:29 -0700 Message-ID: <337BD71D.EF63A8C@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:10:13 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg , List Server Vortex Subject: Re: Simple OU Device X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199705160322.UAA16181@ganymede.compumedia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kr3W13.0.zo3.dTzUp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3085 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Becker wrote: > > Hey Greg, > > If your patent application is denied, will you then detail your > device? > > Just curious, Scott Becker Hi Scott, As most of it has been posted already in bits and pieces, that seems to be the way to go. Hadn't thought of a knock back though. Its good to have many minds online. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 15 20:43:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA15616; Thu, 15 May 1997 20:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705160342.UAA16557@ganymede.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Gary Motor Resent-Message-ID: <"68Lda.0.vp3.HVzUp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3086 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Last night I read the article and built the second model shown. It worked as far as moving the metal away from the stationary magnet to less than half way toward the pivoting one did make the pivoting one go down. It barely works so I can't try to make it self running without a better setup. What I think is happening as far as the neutral zone is concerned is the iron is becoming saturated. When the metal is closer to the magnet it is saturated so there is extra flux appearing at the ends. If this is true then the polarity at the ends of the metal is changing but the flux direction through the middle is staying the same. In the article it says that the metal is sized according to the strength of the magnet. Which indicates that it is becoming saturated. I think that the rotary version of his device should be buildable. I'm not at all sure if the generator version is OU but if all we have to do is wind a coil with an under size core and move it in and out of saturation then it should be quite easy to find out. Scott Becker From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 15 21:35:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA25573; Thu, 15 May 1997 21:35:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 21:35:44 -0700 Message-ID: <337BE3DE.1D3EFC39@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 14:04:38 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gary Motor X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199705160342.UAA16557@ganymede.compumedia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9-6b9.0.UF6.VG-Up"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3087 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Becker wrote: > > Last night I read the article and built the second model shown. > It worked as far as moving the metal away from the stationary magnet > to less than half way toward the pivoting one did make the pivoting > one go down. It barely works so I can't try to make it self running > without a better setup. > > What I think is happening as far as the neutral zone is concerned is > the iron is becoming saturated. When the metal is closer to the magnet > it is saturated so there is extra flux appearing at the ends. > > If this is true then the polarity at the ends of the metal is changing > but the flux direction through the middle is staying the same. > > In the article it says that the metal is sized according to the > strength > of the magnet. Which indicates that it is becoming saturated. > > I think that the rotary version of his device should be buildable. > > I'm not at all sure if the generator version is OU but if all we have > to do is wind a coil with an under size core and move it in and out of > saturation then it should be quite easy to find out. > > Scott Becker Hi Scott, I too have played with some of Gary's ideas. Use ceramic magnets as Neos can easily saturate the iron and even punch flux through. Interesting stuff for the 1800's. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 02:57:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA01176; Fri, 16 May 1997 02:57:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 02:57:29 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 11:45:17 +0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: otecnor@emirates.net.ae (otecnor) Subject: Re: OBRL - Your vote needed to block new Nazi Usenet group Resent-Message-ID: <"F5rhh3.0.EI.6-2Vp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3088 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >On Thu, 15 May 1997, otecnor wrote: > >> >> Hi everybody, >> >> >> I now the herbelow message does not relate to the activities of this email ..snip... >Oh, I get it! > >First we block this Nazi group, then maybe another "unsavory" group, then >maybe someone will ask us to block your comments, then... > >John Fields >----------- Hi John, You are perfectly true,please accept apologies for my short view and resulting action.. All the Best FRANCK ROUSSEL http://www.infoemirates.com/otecnor otecnor@emirates.net.ae Tel: -- 971 4 341 335 Fax: -- 971 4 341 271 Po box 4613 Dubai United Arab Emirates Time: GMT + 4 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 03:39:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA22315; Fri, 16 May 1997 03:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 03:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 03:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705161039.DAA22285@mx2.eskimo.com> X-Sender: johnnyfg@mail.algonet.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) Subject: Re: FREE COPIES of my Encyclopedia of free energy Resent-Message-ID: <"KOFj22.0.aS5.tb3Vp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3089 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >To those that have asked I will be from the 24 of May 97 be placing >a seperate page from the html version of my encyclopedia of free energy with >a new page replacing it each week, so that it can be download by you and >stored on your disk or hard disk to give you a complete up to date free version. >Period that this will run for will be approx twenty weeks >no repeats will occurr in those weeks. >Unfortunately I cannot email those page seperately to users. >For more information check out my website >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel A idea could be to announce a site where all these pages will be stored so others could get this information after this period of twenty weeks... exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 05:54:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA03213; Fri, 16 May 1997 05:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 05:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <337BF262.2152@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 05:36:35 +0000 From: Dorian-Blue Reply-To: Dorian-Blue@prodigy.net Organization: Prodigy Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OBRL - Your vote needed to block new Nazi Usenet group References: <199705160159.LAA27233@main.murray.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sAPGS.0.6o.Oa5Vp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3090 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Geoff Egel wrote: > > Whilst I don't agreee with the activities of any racial exclusive group > I don't think they should be also not be be prevented from expressing an > their views. > > Better to have it out in the open so all who wish can go and see what they > are up to. > > > Geof I like your thinking, Geof. Kind of reminds me of the sage advice, "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer." More than that, I fear censorship under any disguise. Dorian From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 08:18:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA25126; Fri, 16 May 1997 08:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 08:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705161513.IAA25663@claim.goldrush.com> From: "WESLY" To: Subject: Re: Muller/Curtiss/The Wrights Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 08:39:42 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RE6pI2.0.V86.dg7Vp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3091 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: Newman-l > To: crosiar@goldrush.com > Subject: Muller/Curtiss/The Wrights > Date: Friday, May 16, 1997 7:03 AM > > From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) > Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 08:03:13 -0600 > Subject: Muller/Curtiss/The Wrights > > From: HLafonte@aol.com > Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 22:42:54 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: Muller motor > > Hey guys, (and gals) > Is the work of a Mr. Muller in the area of electrical motors and > generators (overunity) " common knowledge" or is he new on the scene (with > respect to going public) ? I found some pretty wild claims at his web site > http://www.aa.net/~mwm/magnet/mmtechpro7.html > Let me know what you think. > Thanks, Butch LaFonte > > > Dear Butch, > > We have been aware of Muller for over a year. My initial awareness came > after I posted informational documents regarding Joseph Newman's technology > on another List and a Mr. Mandeville (Mr. Muller's representative) > responded with unwarranted and initiated sarcastic attacks upon myself and > Joseph Newman. After that time, the interface between Mr. Mandeville and > myself has been hostile, at best. Later, Mr. Mandeville posted information > regarding Muller. > > Joseph Newman has placed Mr. Mandeville on notice that any attempt to steal > his technology by Mr. Muller and/or others will be met with a legal > response. While it would be so easy for all parties to reach a mutually > profitable licensing agreement (and Joe has always indicated a very modest > royalty for the utilization of his technology), there are those who prefer > theft to moral utilization of the technology developed by another. > > Evan:Can you tell me exactly what the Newman patent covers. It has long been understood that uning more [longer] wire will increase efficiency. The latest Newman design is the same as the 1888 Tesla patent #381,970 including the permanent magnets on the rotor, the phasing and winding setup [magnetic polarity reversal every one hundred and eighty degrees], as well as the same commutator design. The only difference in this motor [Tesla,s] is that it uses generator windings on the same core as the motor windings, which actually should be an improvment. Also the stator windings are wound on a torroidal core made of multiple strips of soft wire, which may or may not be an improvment over the Newman design. Using multiple segments on the commutator has been practiced for years on commercial generators. Does Joe have patent protection without a patent. Also how does the Newman motor design resemble the Muller technology or John Bedini's motor designs. While it is apparent that the Newman motor uses the best of existing technology, what is it that is new. I wanted to ask these questions when I first saw the Newman motor design, because I had the 1888 Tesla patent on the desk at the same time I saw the Newman schematic, but I didn't want to offend anyone. This is not meant as an attack, I believe the Newman motor is a great motor. I just don't understand what exactly is being patented here and what technology is being stolen. THANKS WES From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 09:51:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA15338 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 16 May 1997 09:51:15 -0700 Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 09:51:15 -0700 X-Envelope-From: jcsatary@worldchat.com Fri May 16 09:51:12 1997 Received: from barb.worldchat.com (root@barb.wchat.on.ca [204.138.239.65]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA15306 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 09:51:11 -0700 Received: from mail.worldchat.com (g2-p1.hamilton.wchat.on.ca [207.61.164.33]) by barb.worldchat.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA12011 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 12:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705161646.MAA12011@barb.worldchat.com> X-Sender: jcsatary@worldchat.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Old-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:49:06 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Julius Csatary Subject: Re: (no subject) X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: At 03:20 PM 5/6/97 -0500, you wrote: >PLEASE FORWARD INFO ON UNSUb >CRIBING >Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Description: Card for Geoffm1 >Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" > >Attachment Converted: C:\WCHAT\jcsatary.dir\vcard.vcf Geoff: I have been trying to unsuscribe for some time now BUT am unable to do so... I keep getting the List... When I first subscribed it at - wchat.on.ca - Since then the name has changed to - worldchat.com - They tell me either address is OK... I have tried both ways but to no avail... I do not undestand your "vcard.vcf" so maybe you could enlighten me... Either way I do want to UNSUBSCRIBE from freenrg-l RGDS Julius PS:... This is the original message I used when I subscribed... To subscribe to freenrg-digest, send a blank message to: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "subscribe" in the subject line of the message header. Once you have started receiving digests, you can unsubscribe from the normal freenrg-L message traffic. To unsubscribe, send a blank message to: freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com with the word "subscribe" in the subject line of the message header. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 10:26:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA22646; Fri, 16 May 1997 10:26:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 10:26:19 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:28:13 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Muller/Curtiss/The Wrights Resent-Message-ID: <"ooWs03.0.hX5.wY9Vp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3092 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >---------- >> From: Newman-l >> To: crosiar@goldrush.com >> Subject: Muller/Curtiss/The Wrights >> Date: Friday, May 16, 1997 7:03 AM >> >> From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) >> Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 08:03:13 -0600 >> Subject: Muller/Curtiss/The Wrights >> >> From: HLafonte@aol.com >> Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 22:42:54 -0400 (EDT) >> Subject: Muller motor >> snip-- > THANKS WES Dear Wes, No offense taken and I appreciate the sincerity of your honest questions. Personally, I would love to provide you with a detailed response to your query. However, out of deference to the specific legal advice of Joseph Newman's attorney, and since these are claim issues which may directly bear upon future litigation, I cannot provide you at this time with an answer to your honest query. As I have stated before, the ultimate fault lies not with any given individual and/or inventor --- IMHO, the ultimate fault lies with the patent office and with the PROVEN technical incompetent(s) which that office has chosen to employ. Very sincerely, Evan Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "How few understand the PHYSICAL lines of force! They will not see them, yet all the researches on the subject tend to confirm the views I put forth many years since. Thompson of Glasgow seems almost the only one who acknowledges them. He is perhaps the nearest to understanding what I meant. I am content to wait convinced as I am of the truth of my views." --- MICHAEL FARADAY "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood LITERALLY. All energy is the same as mechanical energy, whether it exists in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form. The energy in electromagnetic phenomena is _mechanical_ energy." --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL "According to the general theory of relativity, space is equipped with PHYSICAL qualities; an aether in this sense therefore exists. Space without aether is unthinkable with respect to the general theory of relativity..." --- ALBERT EINSTEIN ".... the magnetic field consists of gyroscopic-type particles which are the mechanical essence of E=mc^2 and represent an orderly flow of kinetic energy." --- JOSEPH NEWMAN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 10:57:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA27580; Fri, 16 May 1997 10:56:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 10:56:58 -0700 Message-ID: <337CAD12.7D7C@keelynet.com> Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 11:53:06 -0700 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: keely's craft References: <970515214256_-1834390395@emout19.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6brAL3.0.rk6.f_9Vp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3093 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Andrew! Do a search on AIRSHIP, if that does not show it at a KeelyNet mirror, I will post what information I have on the device along with a graphic of the aerial propeller, it was supposed to have done 500 mph in a demonstration for the US War Department in 1893....(there was only the War Department, no division in services at that time)....strange that many of the 1897 airship mysteries occurred shortly after this demonstration.....we also have several related files about the airship mysteries and an old fellow with a long beard who claimed to have been shown 'by his uncle', how to cause any object to float in the air by using a wire, and I don't mean suspended from something else....bits and pieces...good luck, let me know if you can't find the airship files and I'll post a special page on them at KeelyNet below....but give me some time, will be on a project for the next 3 weeks or so....seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 16:10:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA26156; Fri, 16 May 1997 16:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 16:10:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: cmetnet.cmet.net: [206.48.24.42] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <337C9E24.64EF@cmet.net> Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:49:24 -0400 From: ce3cwf = felix meyer Reply-To: ce3cwf@cmet.net Organization: CE3CWF X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Muller/Curtiss/The Wrights References: <199705161513.IAA25663@claim.goldrush.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RLu153.0.ZO6.EbEVp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3094 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: WESLY wrote: > > ... ... > > The latest Newman design is the same as the 1888 Tesla patent #381,970 > including the permanent magnets on the rotor, the phasing and winding setup > [magnetic polarity reversal every one hundred and eighty degrees], as well > as the same commutator design. The only difference in this motor [Tesla,s] > is that it uses generator windings on the same core as the motor windings, > which actually should be an improvment. > ... Hi WES, Re: #381,970 I was searching the IBM Patent Server and could not find this one. Can you tell me where to find it ? Many thanks Felix -- mailto:ce3cwf@cmet.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 16:11:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA16607; Fri, 16 May 1997 16:10:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 16:10:54 -0700 Message-ID: <337CE92D.3449@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 08:39:33 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: The "Watson Effect" by the Numbers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1Zyht1.0.234.xbEVp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3095 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have just finished the first version of my OU toy. It is a closed loop system. Over the next several weeks, I will release a series of "How to Duplicate" posts. These posts will be restricted to Bill Beaty's Freenrg list. If you wish to be involved and ACTUALLY build a unit yourself, subscribe to freenrg. I am doing this to reduce traffic on the other lists. The unit I will describe is only flee power, but it will work and PROVES magnetic based OU is possible. I am doing this to ENCOURAGE others to think outside the square and maybe see further than I have. Each post will present a simple to build device. I encourage ALL of you to BUILD and ACTUALLY experiment. I expect much discussion from our more theory enriched friends on WHY and HOW the presented device works, hopefully based on the unit they have built. In the final installment, I will show you how to tie all the previous experiments together and build your own OU toy. I hope some of you will do this yourself and beat me there. If so, be patient and wait for me to finish before you present the other 100 ways you have found to make it happen. What do I want from all this? 1) To find out what the cost will be of tapping this energy source! 2) To create a spark in one of you, who will see how to do this better! 3) For the "Watson Effect" to be remembered! 4) Because the world has too many people who just talk theory! 5) Because I am a nice guy who wants to give something back, REALLY! So ............. Tune into the Freengr channel and be a part of history. I will start on Tuesday (Much to prepare before then). And NO the toy is NOT my device, just another way to do it (Hopefully the second of many). -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 17:00:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA25350; Fri, 16 May 1997 16:59:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 16:59:58 -0700 Message-ID: <337E9DFC.43A1@t-online.de> Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:13:16 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01DT [de] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OBRL - Your vote needed to block new Nazi Usenet group References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: 0333429017-0002@t-online.de (Schenk & Trieloff,=st=Software, Herr Schenk) From: J.F.Schenk@t-online.de (Juergen F. Schenk) Resent-Message-ID: <"p6Iy83.0._B6.zJFVp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3096 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, FRANCK ROUSSEL sent a message with this: >Please copy and distribute to other interested individuals and groups >********** > >Submitted by Friedeman Becker, Germany > and some of us replied in the same sense as John Fields wrote: >Oh, I get it! >First we block this Nazi group, then maybe another "unsavory" group, >then >maybe someone will ask us to block your comments, then... and I also thought so when I received this message yesterday. Since I live in germany like Friedeman Becker, I wrote him directly and he replied me today that he mailed these things only to some friends a long time ago and does not know, how it could reach our mailing list. So I think we should simply skip the whole thing. Best Regards Juergen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 20:13:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA22120; Fri, 16 May 1997 20:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 20:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <337D21F2.54F@centuryinter.net> Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 22:11:46 -0500 From: andrew Reply-To: gyro@centuryinter.net Organization: the truth is out there X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: keely's craft References: <970515214256_-1834390395@emout19.mail.aol.com> <337CAD12.7D7C@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rLvjB.0.XP5.X9IVp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3097 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jerry wrote: > > Hi Andrew! Do a search on AIRSHIP, if that does not show it at a > KeelyNet mirror, I will post what information I have on the device along > with a graphic of the aerial propeller, it was supposed to have done 500 > mph in a demonstration for the US War Department in 1893....(there was > only the War Department, no division in services at that time)....strange > that many of the 1897 airship mysteries occurred shortly after this > demonstration.....we also have several related files about the airship > mysteries and an old fellow with a long beard who claimed to have been > shown 'by his uncle', how to cause any object to float in the air by > using a wire, and I don't mean suspended from something else....bits and > pieces...good luck, let me know if you can't find the airship files and > I'll post a special page on them at KeelyNet below....but give me some > time, will be on a project for the next 3 weeks or so....seeya! > -- > Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 Thank you! I'll try that! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 20:49:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA26408; Fri, 16 May 1997 20:49:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 20:49:16 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: skot@compumedia.com Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 20:40:19 PST Subject: Re: Gary Motor Message-ID: <19970306.204021.9910.1.tv@juno.com> References: <199705160342.UAA16557@ganymede.compumedia.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6,8,10-12,14,16,18,20-29,32,36,39-43,46-58,60-88 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"GBTfb.0.SS6.xgIVp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3098 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Scott, I am also gathering materials to try to replicate the Gary Magnet Motor. The facts included in the article and some genealogical and geographical research I have done convince me that the article is true. I believe Wesley Gary built the device but could not attract enough interest in it at the time because of the very low power levels. It has many parallels to the ball and track machine that Greg Watson has been telling us (a little) about. I am very much encouraged to try these experiments now that Greg Watson has succeeded in making his ball and track contraption run. We have to take his word for it, but I have been reading all of his posting and they have the ring of truth, especially since he says it is working on the same principle (apparently) as Gary's device. I would very much like to keep a correspondence going with you as we progress. We can be an encouragement to each other as well. Please be patient with your experimenting and keep careful notes. As Wesley Gary found out, it requires considerable patience to obtain a continuous motion. I am first trying to duplicate the beam balance version first since it seems the simplest to understand. I am making mine quite large so I can work with it easily. I found it easy to confirm the neutral point effects with small nail described in the article. The "neutral point" seems to be were the soft iron has a net zero magnetization. In other words, as many spins aligned in one direction as the other. There may even be an internal magnetic path established in the soft iron that create adjacent ustable regions of polorization (large domain boundaries). Have you seen a good source of large horseshoe magnets ? How about cow magnets ? They are steel like Wesley Gay would have used and they are certainly cheap enough, about $1.50 each at local vet supply. What are you using for the soft iron ? Mostly what I have found seems to be steel. Tim ( tv@juno.com ) On Thu, 15 May 1997 20:42:24 -0700 (PDT) skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) writes: > >Last night I read the article and built the second model shown. >It worked as far as moving the metal away from the stationary magnet >to less than half way toward the pivoting one did make the pivoting >one go down. It barely works so I can't try to make it self running >without a better setup. > >What I think is happening as far as the neutral zone is concerned is >the iron is becoming saturated. When the metal is closer to the magnet >it is saturated so there is extra flux appearing at the ends. > >If this is true then the polarity at the ends of the metal is changing >but the flux direction through the middle is staying the same. > >In the article it says that the metal is sized according to the >strength >of the magnet. Which indicates that it is becoming saturated. > >I think that the rotary version of his device should be buildable. > >I'm not at all sure if the generator version is OU but if all we have >to do is wind a coil with an under size core and move it in and out of >saturation then it should be quite easy to find out. > > > Scott Becker > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 21:10:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA28572; Fri, 16 May 1997 21:09:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 21:09:52 -0700 Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 15:43:15 +1000 Message-Id: <199705170543.PAA01904@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: FREE COPIES of my Encyclopedia of free energy Resent-Message-ID: <"x3GgS2.0.L-6.F-IVp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3099 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:39 AM 5/16/97 -0700, you wrote: >>To those that have asked I will be from the 24 of May 97 be placing >>a seperate page from the html version of my encyclopedia of free energy with >>a new page replacing it each week, so that it can be download by you and >>stored on your disk or hard disk to give you a complete up to date free >version. >>Period that this will run for will be approx twenty weeks >>no repeats will occurr in those weeks. >>Unfortunately I cannot email those page seperately to users. >>For more information check out my website >>http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel > >A idea could be to announce a site where all these pages will be stored so >others could get this information after this period of twenty weeks... >exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! >mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se >http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/ >I sorry after twenty weeks they will no longer be available and I can only place one page each week and then it is removed .If I have any more I exceed my web page allocation. Geoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 21:26:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA29174; Fri, 16 May 1997 21:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 21:26:29 -0700 (PDT) To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 21:16:20 PST Subject: Re: The "Watson Effect" by the Numbers Message-ID: <19970306.211622.9910.2.tv@juno.com> References: <337CE92D.3449@microtronics.com.au> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,5-6,8,11-12,14-23,25-33 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"MiW_s1.0.k77.oDJVp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3100 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, Most excellent !! I will following your serial with great interest and will put every effort I can to follow your instructions in an attempt to duplicate it. Thank You for not falling into the patent trap ! If you would like to read a confirmation of the wisdom of your decision to publish and share your discovery, read the articles by Don Lancaster, a famous electronics author in the US. He writes articles in Popular Electronics, Electronics Now, and Nuts and Volts magazine. His web page is < www.tinaja.com >. He gives many compelling reasons why patents are a big money and energy sink. But first, please write your articles on the "ball and track machine". I am waiting with great interest as history unfolds ! Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com) Electronics Instructor, Yosemite Community College On Sat, 17 May 1997 08:39:33 +0930 Greg Watson writes: >Hi All, > >I have just finished the first version of my OU toy. > >It is a closed loop system. > >Over the next several weeks, I will release a series of "How to >Duplicate" posts. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 22:17:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA05639; Fri, 16 May 1997 22:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 22:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 22:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705170514.WAA05167@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: The "Watson Effect" by the Numbers Resent-Message-ID: <"56y9B2.0.-N1.wyJVp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3101 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, Great news! This would save time and money for your device to be duplicated by others. We can then proceed to figure out how to make a home power size unit. I look forward to building the closed loop system! Best Regards, Michael Randall At 08:39 AM 5/17/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >Hi All, > >I have just finished the first version of my OU toy. > >It is a closed loop system. > >Over the next several weeks, I will release a series of "How to >Duplicate" posts. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 16 23:53:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA12631; Fri, 16 May 1997 23:53:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 23:53:46 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 02:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970517025305_1557239989@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : The "Watson Effect" by the Numbers Resent-Message-ID: <"s7Hcl.0.453.vNLVp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3102 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 17/05/1997 01:25:07 , you wrote : << Date : 17/05/1997 01:25:07 From: gwatson@microtronics.com.au (Greg Watson) I have just finished the first version of my OU toy. It is a closed loop system. Over the next several weeks, I will release a series of "How to Duplicate" posts. These posts will be restricted to Bill Beaty's Freenrg list. If you wish to be involved and ACTUALLY build a unit yourself, subscribe to freenrg. I am doing this to reduce traffic on the other lists. The unit I will describe is only flee power, but it will work and PROVES magnetic based OU is possible. >> Hi Greg, WONDERFULL, I think that you have choosen the good way. You will perhaps be remembered for O/U as ORWILL WRIGHT or CLEMENT ADER for aviation. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 17 01:02:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA19833; Sat, 17 May 1997 01:02:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 01:02:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970517010230.00a94884@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 01:02:32 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Gary Motor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"MP80x.0.or4.IOMVp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3103 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Warning: Horshoe magnets are very often magnetized only on the ends instead of their whole volume. 4" to 6" horseshoe magnets made out of alnico are $100s USD. Much cheaper way is to assemble them out of thin alnico bars with rectangular cross-section. Another good way to simulate an end-only-magnetized horseshoe magnet is by using soft steel horseshoe rod with a NdFeB magnet on each end. Cow magnets are cylindrical with rounded ends and are difficult to work with. The AlNiCo alloy is very brittle and prone to demagnetization (low coercivity) and any cutting/machining tends to grossly disturb AlNiCo magnetization. I guess you could build a horseshoe magnet out of 3 cow magnets and a lot of epoxy resin, but it wouldn be "nice". Soft steel should be a quite an efficient substitute for iron. As a matter of fact pure iron is rather rare, in 1800s a carbon-iron steel was most likely called iron although they were really talking about soft-steel. The usage of the adjective "soft" betrays this, since a pure iron would have rather constant softness and the adjective "soft" would not be necessary. At 08:40 PM 3/6/97 PST, you wrote: >Hi Scott, > >I am also gathering materials to try to replicate the Gary Magnet Motor. > >The facts included in the article and some genealogical and geographical >research I have done convince me that the article is true. I believe >Wesley Gary built >the device but could not attract enough interest in it at the time >because >of the very low power levels. It has many parallels to the ball and >track >machine that Greg Watson has been telling us (a little) about. > >I am very much encouraged to try these experiments now that Greg Watson >has >succeeded in making his ball and track contraption run. We have to take >his word >for it, but I have been reading all of his posting and they have the ring >of truth, >especially since he says it is working on the same principle (apparently) >as >Gary's device. > >I would very much like to keep a correspondence going with you as we >progress. We can be an encouragement to each other as well. > > Please be patient with your experimenting and keep careful >notes. As Wesley Gary found out, it requires considerable patience to >obtain a continuous motion. > >I am first trying to duplicate the beam balance version first since it seems the simplest to understand. I am making mine quite large so I can >work with it easily. >I found it easy to confirm the neutral point effects with small nail >described in the article. The "neutral point" seems to be were the soft >iron has a net zero magnetization. In other words, as many spins aligned >in one direction as the other. >There may even be an internal magnetic path established in the soft iron >that create adjacent ustable regions of polorization (large domain >boundaries). > > >Have you seen a good source of large horseshoe magnets ? > >How about cow magnets ? They are steel like Wesley Gay would have used >and they are certainly cheap enough, about $1.50 each at local vet supply. > >What are you using for the soft iron ? > >Mostly what I have found seems to be steel. > > >Tim >( tv@juno.com ) > > > > >On Thu, 15 May 1997 20:42:24 -0700 (PDT) skot@compumedia.com (Scott >Becker) writes: >> >>Last night I read the article and built the second model shown. >>It worked as far as moving the metal away from the stationary magnet >>to less than half way toward the pivoting one did make the pivoting >>one go down. It barely works so I can't try to make it self running >>without a better setup. >> >>What I think is happening as far as the neutral zone is concerned is >>the iron is becoming saturated. When the metal is closer to the magnet >>it is saturated so there is extra flux appearing at the ends. >> >>If this is true then the polarity at the ends of the metal is changing >>but the flux direction through the middle is staying the same. >> >>In the article it says that the metal is sized according to the >>strength >>of the magnet. Which indicates that it is becoming saturated. >> >>I think that the rotary version of his device should be buildable. >> >>I'm not at all sure if the generator version is OU but if all we have >>to do is wind a coil with an under size core and move it in and out of >>saturation then it should be quite easy to find out. >> >> >> Scott Becker >> >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 17 16:27:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA07774; Sat, 17 May 1997 16:27:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 16:27:15 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC62EF.EC4B60C0@supersaurus.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: RE: Gary Motor Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 18:23:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"S32de2.0.Jv1.IxZVp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3104 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson, If you really want everyone to know about what you have = done and you want people to duplicate your work, Then I would be happy = to put the info in my newsletter I am making. Everyone else, I still could use a basic discryption of Zero Point = Energy. Also, If there is any free energy work you do that you want out = in the open tell me and I will put it in the newsletter. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 17 20:08:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA18742; Sat, 17 May 1997 20:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 20:07:29 -0700 (PDT) X-ROUTED: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:03:54 -0500 X-TCP-IDENTITY: Paula Message-ID: <337E719B.3E96@southconn.com> Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:03:56 -0400 From: paula opelc Organization: sisters of silicone, inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gary Motor References: <01BC62EF.EC4B60C0@supersaurus.mdm.mke.execpc.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6386744D38" Resent-Message-ID: <"onsdQ1.0.ia4.j9dVp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3105 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6386744D38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hawkeye wrote: > > Greg Watson, If you really want everyone to know about what you have done and you want people to duplicate your work, Then I would be happy to put the info in my newsletter I am making. > > Everyone else, I still could use a basic discryption of Zero Point Energy. Also, If there is any free energy work you do that you want out in the open tell me and I will put it in the newsletter. Hawkeye wrote: > > Greg Watson, If you really want everyone to know about what you have done and you want people to duplicate your work, Then I would be happy to put the info in my newsletter I am making. > > Everyone else, I still could use a basic discryption of Zero Point Energy. Also, If there is any free energy work you do that you want out in the open tell me and I will put it in the newsletter. Am attaching a paper by Puthoff that has a pretty good explanation (I think) of the zpe.....hope this helps.....steve --------------6386744D38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="Zpe.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Zpe.txt" Quantum Vacuum Fluctuations: A New Rosetta Stone of Physics? Dr. H. E. Puthoff Institute for Advanced Studies 1301 Capital Of Texas Highway S., Suite B 121 Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5751 In a recent article in the popular press (The Economist, January 7, 1989, pp. 71-74) it was noted how many of this century's new technologies depend on the Alice-in-Wonderland physics of quantum mechanics, with all of its seeming absurdities. For starters, one begins with the observation that classical physics tells us that atoms, which can be likened to a miniature solar system with electron planets orbiting a nuclear sun, should not exist. The circling electrons should radiate away their energy like microscopic radio antennas and spiral into the nucleus. But atoms do exist, and multitudinous other phenomena which don't obey the rules do occur. To resolve this cognitive dissonance physicists introduced quantum mechanics, which is essentially a set of mathematical rules to describe what in fact does happen. But when we re-ask the question, "why didn't the electron radiate away its energy?" the answer is, basically, "well, in quantum theory it doesn't." It's at this point that not only the layman but some physicists can begin to feel that someone's not playing fair. I say only some physicists because the majority of working physicists are content simply to use quantum rules that work, that describe (if only statistically) what will happen in a given experiment under certain conditions. These are the so-called "logical positivists" who, in a philosophical sense, are like the news reporter whose only interest is the bottom line. There are nevertheless individuals here and there who still want to know why the electron didn't radiate, why Einstein's equations are in this form and not another, where does the ubiquitous zero- point energy that fills even empty space come from, why quantum theory, and perhaps the biggest question of all, how did the universe get started anyway? Surprisingly enough, there may be answers to these seemingly unanswerable meta-level questions. Perhaps even more surprising, they seem to be emerging, as a recent book title put it, from "Something called Nothing" (1), or to put it more correctly, from empty space, the vacuum, the void. To comprehend the significance of this statement, we will have to take a detour into the phenomenon of fluctuations with which quantum theory abounds, including the fluctuations of empy space itself. Before the advent of quantum theory, physics taught that any simple oscillator such as a pendulum, when excited, would eventually come to rest if not continuously energized by some outside force such as a spring. This is because of friction losses in the system. After it was recognized that quantum theory was a more accurate representation of nature, one of the findings of quantum theory was that such an oscillator would in fact not come to total rest but rather would continue to "jiggle" randomly about its resting point with a small amount of energy always present, the so-called"zero-point energy." Although it may not be observable to the eye on your grandfather clock because it is so minute, it is nonetheless very real, and in many physical systems has important consequences. One example is the presence of a certain amount of "noise" in a microwave receiver that can never be gotten rid of, no matter how perfect the technology. This is an example which shows that not only physical devices such as pendulums have this property of incessant fluctuation, but also fields, such as electromagnetic fields (radio waves, microwaves, light, X-rays, etc.). As it turns out, even though the zero-point energy in any particular mode of an electromagnetic field is minute, there are so many possible modes of propagation (frequencies, directions) in open space, the zero-point energy summed up over all possible modes is quite enormous; in fact, greater than, for example, nuclear energy densities. And this in all of so-called "empty" space around us. Let us concentrate on the effects of such electromagnetic zero-point fluctuations. With such large values, it might seem that the effects of electromagnetic zero-point energy should be quite obvious, but this is not the case because of its extremely uniform density. Just as a vase standing in a room is not likely to fall over spontaneously, so a vase bombarded uniformly on all sides by millions of ping pong balls would not do likewise because of the balanced conditions of the uniform bombardment. The only evidence of such a barrage might be minute jiggling of the vase, and similar mechanisms are thought to be involved in the quantum jiggle of zero-point motion. However, there are certain conditions in which the uniformity of the background electromagnetic zero-point energy is slightly disturbed and leads to physical effects. One is the slight perturbation of the lines seen from transitions between atomic states known as the Lamb Shift (2), named after its discoverer, Willis Lamb. Another, also named for its discoverer, is the Casimir Effect, a unique attractive quantum force between closely-spaced metal plates. An elegant analysis by Milonni et. al. at Los Angeles National Laboratory (3) shows the Casimir force to be due to radiation pressure from the background electromagnetic zero-point energy which has become unbalanced due to the presence of the plates, and which results in the plates being pushed together. From this it would seem that it might be possible to extract electrical energy from the vacuum, and indeed the possibility of doing so (at least in principle) has been shown in a paper of that same name by Robert Forward (4) at Hughes Research Laboratories in Malibu, California. What does this have to do with our basic questions? Let's start with the question as top why the electron in a simple hydrogen atom doesn't radiate as it circles the proton in its stable ground state atomic orbit. This issue has been re-addressed in a recent paper by the author, this time taking into account what has been learned over the years about the effects of zero-point energy. (5) There it is shown that the electron can be seen as continually radiating away its energy as predicted by classical theory, but simultaneously absorbing a compensating amount of energy from the ever-present sea of zero-point energy in which the atom is immersed, and an assumed equilibrium between these two processes leads to the correct values for the parameters known to define the ground-state orbit. Thus the ground-state orbit is set by a dynamic equilibrium in which collapse of the state is prevented by the presence of the zero-point energy. The significance of this observation is that the very stability of matter itself appears to depend on the presence of the underlying sea of electromagnetic zero-point energy. With regard to the gravitational attraction that is described so well by Einstein's theory, its fundamental nature is still not well understood. Whether addressed simply in terms of Newton's Law, or with the full rigor of general relativity, gravitational theory is basically descriptive in nature, without revealing the underlying dynamics for that description. As a result, attempts to unify gravity with the other forces (electromagnetic, strong and weak nuclear forces) or to develop a quantum theory of gravity have foundered again and again on difficulties that can be traced back to a lack of understanding at a fundamental level. To rectify these difficulties, theorists by and large have resorted to ever-increasing levels of mathematical sophistication and abstraction, as in the recent development of supergravity and superstring theories. Taking a completely different tack when addressing these difficulties in the sixties, the well-known Russian physicist Andrei Sakharov put forward the somewhat radical hypothesis that gravitation might not be a fundamental interaction at all, but rather a secondary or residual effect associated with other (non- gravitational) fields. (6) Specifically, Sakharov suggested that gravity might be an induced effect brought about by changes in the zero-point energy of the vacuum, due to the presence of matter. If correct, gravity would then be understood as a variation on the Casimir theme, in which background zero-point-energy pressures were again responsible. Although Sakharov did not develop the concept much further, he did outline certain criteria such a theory would have to meet such as predicting the value of the gravitational constant G in terms of zero-point-energy parameters. The approach to gravity outlined by Sakharov has recently been addressed in detail, and with positive reults, again by the author. (7) The gravitational interaction is shown to begin with the fact that a particle situated in the sea of electromagnetic zero-point fluctuations develops a "jitter" motion, or ZITTERBEWEGUNG as it is called. When there are two or more particles they are each influenced not only by the fluctuating background field, but also by the fields generated by the other particles, all similarly undergoing ZITTERBEWEGUNG motion, and the inter-particle coupling due to these fields results in the attractive gravitational force. Gravity can thus be understood as a kind of long-range Casimir force. Because of its electromagnetic unerpinning, gravitational theory in this form constitutes what is known in the literature as an "already-unified" theory. The major benefit of the new approach is that it provides a basis for understanding various characteristics of the gravitational interaction hitherto unexplained. These include the relative weakness of the gravitational force under ordinary circumstances (shown to be due to the fact that the coupling constant G depends inversely on the large value of the high-frequency cutoff of the zero-point-fluctuation spectrum); the existence of positive but not negative mass (traceable to a positive-only kinetic-energy basis for the mass parameter); and the fact that gravity cannot be shielded (a consequence of the fact that quantum zero-point-fluctuation "noise" in general cannot be shielded, a factor which in other contexts sets a lower limit on the detectability of electromagnetic signals). As to where the ubiquitous electromagnetic zero-point energy comes from, historically there have been two schools of thought: existence by fiat as part of the boundary conditions of the universe, or generation by the (quantum-fluctuation) motion of charged particles that constitute matter. A straightforward calculation of the latter possibility has recently been carried out by the author. (8) It was assumed that zero-point fields drive particle motion, and that the sum of particle motions throughout the universe in turn generate the zero-point fields, in the form of a self-regenerating cosmological feedback cycle not unlike a cat chasing its own tail. This self-constistent approach yielded the known zero-point field distribution, thus indicating a dynamic-generation process for the zero-point fields. Now as to the question of why quantum theory. Although knowledge of zero-point fields emerged from quantum physics as that subject matured, Professor Timothy Boyer at City College in New York took a contrary view. He bagan asking in the late sixties what would happen if we took classical physics as it was and introduced a background of random, classical fluctuating fields of the zero-point spectral distribution type. Could such an all-classical model reproduce quantum theory in its entirety, and might this possibility have been overlooked by the founders of quantum theory who were not aware of the existence of such a fluctuating background field? (First, it is clear from the previously-mentioned cosmological calculation that such a field distribution would reproduce itself on a continuing dynamic basis.) Boyer began by tackling the problems that led to the introduction of quantum theory in the first place, such as the blackbody radiation curve and the photoelectric effect. One by one the known quantum results were reproduced by this upstart neoclassical approach, now generally referred to as Stochastic Electrodynamics (SED) (9), as contrasted to quantum electrodynamics (QED). Indeed, Milonni at Los Alamos noted in a review of the Boyer work that had physicists in 1900 thought of taking this route, they would probably have been more comfortable with this classical approach than with Planck's hypothesis of the quantum, and one can only speculate as to the direction that physics would have taken then. The list of topics successfully analyzed within the SED formulation (i.e., yielding precise quantitative agreement with QED treatments) has now been extended to include the harmonic oscillator, Casimir and Van der Waals forces and the thermal effects of acceleration through the vacuum, to name a few. Out of this work emerged the reasons for such phenomena as the uncertainty principle, the incessant fluctuation of particle motion, the existence of Van der Waals forces even at zero temperature, and so forth, all shown to be due to the influence of the unceasing activity of the random background fields. There are also some notable failures in SED, such as transparent derivation of something as simple as Schrodinger's equation, which turns out as yet to be an intractable problem. Therefore, it is unlikely that quantum theory as we have come to know it and love it will be entirely replaced by a refurbished classical theory in the near future. Nonetheless, the successes to date of the SED approach, by its highlighting of the role of background zero-point-fluctuations, means that when the final chapter is written on quantum theory, field fluctuations in empty space will be accorded an honored position. And now to the preeminent question of all, where did the Universe come from? Or, in modern terminology, what started the Big Bang? Could quantum fluctuations of empty space have something to do with this also? Well, Prof. Edward Tryon of Hunter College of the City University of New York thought so when he proposed in 1973 that our Universe may have originated as a fluctuation of the vacuum on a large scale, as "simply one of those things which happen from time to time." (10) This idea was later refined and updated within the context of inflationary cosmology by Alexander Vilenkin of Tufts University, who proposed that the universe is created by quantum tunneling from literally nothing into the something we call our universe. (11) Although highly speculative, these types of models indicate once again that physicists find themselves turning again and again to the Void (and the fluctuations thereof) for their answers. Those with a practical bent of mind may be left with yet one more unanswered question. Can this emerging Rosetta Stone of physics be used to translate such lofty insights into mundane application? Could the engineer of the future specialize in "vacuum engineering?" Could the energy crisis be solved by harnessing the energies of the zero-point sea? After all, since the basic zero-point energy form is highly random in nature, and tending towards self-cancellation, if a way could be found to bring order out of chaos, the, because of the highly energetic nature of the vacuum fluctuations, relatively large effects could in principle be produced. Given our relative ignorance at this point, we must fall back on a quote given by Podolny (12) when contemplating this same issue. "It would be just as presumptuous to deny the feasibility of useful application as it would be irresponsible to guarantee such application." Only the future can reveal the ultimate use to which Mankind will put this remaining Fire of the Gods, the quantum fluctuations of empty space. REFERENCES 1. R. Podolny, "Something Called Nothing" (Mir Publ., Moscow,1986) 2. W. E. Lamb, Jr., and R. C. Retherford, "Fine Structure of the Hydrogen Atom by a Microwave Method," Phys. Rev. 72, 241 (1947) 3. P. W. Milonni, R. J. Cook and M. E. Goggin, "Radiation Pressure from the Vacuum : Physical Interpretation of the Casimir Force," Phys. Rev. A 38, 1621 (1988) 4. R. L. Forward, "Extracting Electrical Energy from the Vacuum by Cohesion of Charged Foliated Conductors," Phys. Rev. B 30, 1700 (1984) 5. H. E. Puthoff, "Ground State of Hydrogen as a Zero-Point Fluctuation-Determined State," Phys. Rev. D 35, 3266 (1987) See also science news article, "Why Atoms Don't Collapse," in New Scientist, p. 26 (9 July 1987) 6. A. D. Sakharov, "Vacuum Quantum Fluctuations in Curved Space and the Theory of Gravitation, Dokl. Akad. Nauk. SSSR (Sov. Phys. - Dokl. 12, 1040 (1968). See also discussion in C. W. Misner, K. S. Thorne and J. A. Wheeler, Gravitation (Freeman, San Francisco,1973), p. 426 7. H. E. Puthoff, "Gravity as a Zero-Point Fluctuation Force," Phys. Rev. A 39, 2333 (1989) 8. H. E. Puthoff, "Source of Vacuum Electromagnetic Zero-Point Energy," subm. to Phys. Rev. A, (March 1989) 9. See review of SED by T. H. Boyer, "A Brief Survey of Stochastic Electrodynamics," in Foundations of Radiation Theory and Quantum Electrodynamics, edited by A. O. Barut (Plenum, New York, 1980) See also the very readable account "The Classical Vacuum," in Scientific American, p. 70 (August 1985) 10. E. P. Tryon, "Is the Universe a Vacuum Fluctuation?" Nature 246, 396 (1973) 11. A. Vilenkin, "Creation of Universes from Nothing," Phys. Lett. 117B, 25 (1982) 12. R. Podolny, Ref. 1, p. 211 from http://www.clas.ufl.edu/anthro/ZPE.html --------------6386744D38-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 17 20:09:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA19098; Sat, 17 May 1997 20:08:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 20:08:56 -0700 Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 20:08:48 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: Greg Watson cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The "Watson Effect" by the Numbers In-Reply-To: <337CE92D.3449@microtronics.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"B72q32.0.Jg4.7BdVp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3106 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 17 May 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > Hi All, > > I have just finished the first version of my OU toy. > > It is a closed loop system. Just to clarify: you mean you just finished building it and you hope it will work? Or do you mean that you've just managed to create another *working* closed-loop device, one which is based some other patent?! If the latter, then this is more astounding news! .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 17 20:44:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA23385 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 17 May 1997 20:44:49 -0700 Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 20:44:49 -0700 X-Envelope-From: Puthoff@aol.com Sat May 17 20:44:47 1997 Received: from emout29.mail.aol.com (emout29.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.134]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA23332; Sat, 17 May 1997 20:44:45 -0700 From: Puthoff@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout29.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id XAA06663; Sat, 17 May 1997 23:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970517233421_484905075@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au cc: newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The "Watson Effect" by the Numbers X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Greg, Before you have everyone follow you in a replication attempt, IMO it is very important for you to build a second one yourself, using completely new parts to build the second (different magnets, ball, etc.). There is always that chance that in your first version you just stumbled serendipitously on magnets, balls etc. that just happened to have some special flaws or whatever that turn out to be key, unknown even to you. I know I'll feel better when you say that you yourself have had success with a completely independent replica. (This concern was brought to my attention by my son, Brendan, an engineering student, who is also going to follow your recipe.) Hal Puthoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 17 22:32:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA09059; Sat, 17 May 1997 22:32:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 22:32:22 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970517223211.00a8b51c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 22:32:12 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: o/u ramp is not o/u? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Yxw1Z3.0.SD2.aHfVp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3107 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Looks like you're stirring them up :) >John Logajan wrote: >> William Beaty worte: >> > "Round one" must be awarded to the o/u supporters. Refusing to do >> > this would be a form of cheating, of Goalpost Moving. >> >> If I CLAIM I can knock out Mike Tyson, am I awarded the first round? > >I don't understand. Do you mean that Greg is probably lying about having >achived closed-loop operation? I see him as claiming that he DID knock >out Mike Tyson, a different thing entirely. > >If Greg Watson is lying than it can be for several reasons: > >1. To extort money from investors >2. To gain attention and feed his ego >3. To avoid admitting that he was unsuccesful in "closing the loop " >4. To mislead/discourage us on vortex-l or freenrg-l for debunking purposes >5. To mislead/discourage us on vortex-l or freenrg-l for distraction >purposes (ie. the TED device) > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 17 23:24:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA11036; Sat, 17 May 1997 23:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC6318.07AF86C0@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: o/u ramp is not o/u? Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:14:10 -0700 Encoding: 40 TEXT, 57 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"D3wmB1.0.Ii2.BvfVp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3108 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Saturday, May 17, 1997 10:32 PM Epitaxy wrote: >Looks like you're stirring them up :) >>John Logajan wrote: >>> William Beaty worte: >>> > "Round one" must be awarded to the o/u supporters. Refusing to do >>> > this would be a form of cheating, of Goalpost Moving. >>> >>> If I CLAIM I can knock out Mike Tyson, am I awarded the first round? >> >>I don't understand. Do you mean that Greg is probably lying about having >>achived closed-loop operation? I see him as claiming that he DID knock >>out Mike Tyson, a different thing entirely. >> >>If Greg Watson is lying than it can be for several reasons: >> >>1. To extort money from investors >>2. To gain attention and feed his ego >>3. To avoid admitting that he was unsuccesful in "closing the loop " >>4. To mislead/discourage us on vortex-l or freenrg-l for debunking purposes >>5. To mislead/discourage us on vortex-l or freenrg-l for distraction >>purposes (ie. the TED device) (BTW, where'd this last come from? I didn't receive that post) and etcetera... Good grief, gang, where's the substance in this thread? The recent wave of humor had more technical basis. What's been spewing lately sounds like Frederick's Hot F.A.R.T. unit got loose and sprung a leak! With all due respect (and I truly do have a *great* deal of respect for most of the participants here), how about putting a cork in it until Greg posts his instructions? Then you can build the thing or not. If nobody can get it to work, *then* start the critique. Your sometimes-humble uncredentialed amateur, Dan Quickert begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@L&`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965NL"@P!0$P-4`@!C: K M([&N\R-34"@ J!#;'!"V!N9S$P,Q0@ M"P,@;&DQ-#0"T6DMWQ[3#- >TPM5&)(Q&) 4P%IO%4!C!4 &$'0(<&0887DL M!= AT" Q-R$A\#$Y.30A@)V4:\" 5,&ER M!1 =\" "=!:0;2!U<" Z'BDG)25-*&\F3#Y*;\9H`Z J4&=A:@.1).NR/C&@ M(%<#$!ZP82PP?$)E(8 DP1J1,1LQP"(A" !U;F0@`B!E(D@@;745,"!B*N!A M;G<+$0F *_!O*_(T4"^V=2M@+%!P,M(1X"XD0)Y2#< TP"O#-39@8V,'D#=0`R!8T2*O2)(KQ2J@21(B,30,3(V8&)#PO]=H%X"..,L`%010; NC"1 ?E0U\7!R3J$U M0'#!.C%H_G4$8 7 $< T0'M!<-$%D/\P(&N@4^%&``"0-O C;GC^_E=%$7;Q M-0`)\"M@26 #\'\KT0M@%4!&,3^P-"$JE49O&O$&<3[0=O%((1"!<"[@02Y2 M+E0W`#0@4K&_6H %0$D!$?!9DW_0S4@%K%D M"E!4`7_1(4$H_UFB/!Y\?<#H$1R4N-U`Q! M$[4 M!;&]/K!T-P`]D3ZP!N!D(C"_/F)FH 5 4K$UL3+!:R'P^BHL`6Z)0$/!5E$U MX@4![2N <0I0 ^RN !X$M>R$"8&:Q=\"!DK]/00= -8$R,(!A M"' L+*RZ1 .149&@/M $D'0C; LFGAH1`)X``P`0$ `````#`!$0`````$ ` M!S#@Y!,63V.\`4 `"##@Y!,63V.\`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B ``````P`- '-/TW```G3&.\ ` end From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 18 07:51:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA26828; Sun, 18 May 1997 07:50:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 07:50:31 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:54:23 +1200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Paul Callender Subject: OU Ramp Resent-Message-ID: <"qM3q02.0.5Z6.rSnVp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3109 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, This is about the second time I have popped my head in this conference in the last 6 months but I have been quietly reading and experimenting with ideas tossed around here. Firstly I must say congratulations to Greg Watson. I have been impressed with the way he is handling the distribution of instructions on his device and am eagerly anticipating his instructions on building it. I'll be watching from across the Tasman in NZ. What I want to know is if I have overunity in this situation. I take a ramp of small incline upwards with magnets alongside it (like the patent referred to in Greg's info earlier, patent 4,215,330) and place a stationery steel ball at the bottom. Then I allow it to roll up it,when at the end it drops suddenly (say a cm or two) at the end onto a downward sloping ramp without magnets, thereby converting the gravity potential into kinetic. Is the gravity cancelling the magnetic draw-back effect causing overunity? Or does the magnetic potential and gravational potential cancel out any chance of OU? I have a feeling this may be similar to the Bedini magnetic gate, looks like OU but it aint. Thanks, ................... Paul Callender Email: klicco@es.co.nz Christchurch 5, New Zealand From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 18 11:15:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA06055 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 18 May 1997 11:15:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 11:15:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: kbrown@tnc.com Sun May 18 11:15:23 1997 Received: from nisku.blackgold.ab.ca (nisku.blackgold.ab.ca [198.53.152.12]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA05992 for ; Sun, 18 May 1997 11:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.134.251.35] (tc1ppp25.superiway.net [207.134.251.35]) by nisku.blackgold.ab.ca (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id MAA11870 for ; Sun, 18 May 1997 12:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970517223211.00a8b51c@mail.localaccess.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Old-Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 12:15:51 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Ken G. Brown" Subject: Re: o/u ramp is not o/u? X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: By chance came across this patent info at 11/14/61 3,009,136 Flux-Doubling In Magnetic Cores 1K Inventors - David R. Bennion, Douglas C. Engelbart & E. K. Van De Riet 1K1 There are a few more related patents listed there as well. Am passing it along in case it might be helpful. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 18 11:32:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA06923; Sun, 18 May 1997 11:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 11:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 12:23:35 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Ken G. Brown" Subject: Re: o/u ramp is not o/u? Resent-Message-ID: <"xtReq.0.3i1.CaqVp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3110 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: By chance came across this patent info at 11/14/61 3,009,136 Flux-Doubling In Magnetic Cores 1K Inventors - David R. Bennion, Douglas C. Engelbart & E. K. Van De Riet 1K1 There are a few more related patents listed there as well. Am passing it along in case it might be helpful. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 18 13:38:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA24192; Sun, 18 May 1997 13:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 13:28:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705182027.QAA28498@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: AI To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 16:27:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"LPFuq3.0.gv5.XPsVp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3111 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just read a great book on AI. The problem is, it was written around 1985. Can anyone recommend some newer reasources on AI? Does anyone know Lisp? Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 18 16:49:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA20929; Sun, 18 May 1997 16:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 16:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC63BA.8BEC0920@pallas.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: science Subject: RE: AI Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 18:36:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NL6Xb.0.s65.3CvVp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3112 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Try these!!!! AI and Robotics from my AI and Robotics folder. http://ai.iit.nrc.ca/ai_point.html http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/misc/ai/ http://robotics.jpl.nasa.gov/people/welch/other-robotics.html http://piglet.cs.umass.edu:4321/robotics.html/ http://198.110.216.210/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 18 18:56:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA03001; Sun, 18 May 1997 18:56:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 18:56:00 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:30:38 +1000 Message-Id: <199705190330.NAA12728@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: RE: o/u ramp is not o/u? Resent-Message-ID: <"76VfM.0.nk.lCxVp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3113 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:14 PM 5/17/97 -0700, you wrote: >Saturday, May 17, 1997 10:32 PM Epitaxy wrote: > >>Looks like you're stirring them up :) > >>>John Logajan wrote: >>>> William Beaty worte: >>>> > "Round one" must be awarded to the o/u supporters. Refusing to do >>>> > this would be a form of cheating, of Goalpost Moving. >>>> >>>> If I CLAIM I can knock out Mike Tyson, am I awarded the first round? >>> >>>I don't understand. Do you mean that Greg is probably lying about having >>>achived closed-loop operation? I see him as claiming that he DID knock >>>out Mike Tyson, a different thing entirely. >>> >>>If Greg Watson is lying than it can be for several reasons: >>> >>>1. To extort money from investors >>>2. To gain attention and feed his ego >>>3. To avoid admitting that he was unsuccesful in "closing the loop " >>>4. To mislead/discourage us on vortex-l or freenrg-l for debunking >purposes >>>5. To mislead/discourage us on vortex-l or freenrg-l for distraction >>>purposes (ie. the TED device) > >(BTW, where'd this last come from? I didn't receive that post) > >and etcetera... > >Good grief, gang, where's the substance in this thread? The recent wave of >humor had more technical basis. What's been spewing lately sounds like >Frederick's Hot F.A.R.T. unit got loose and sprung a leak! With all due >respect (and I truly do have a *great* deal of respect for most of the >participants here), how about putting a cork in it until Greg posts his >instructions? Then you can build the thing or not. If nobody can get it to >work, *then* start the critique. > >Your sometimes-humble uncredentialed amateur, > >Dan Quickert > >begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT >M>)\^(@L&`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` >M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ >MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` >M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965NM5% `9G)E96YR9RUL0&5S:VEM;RYC;VT``!X``C !````!0```%--5% ````` >M'@`#, $````5````9G)E96YR9RUL0&5S:VEM;RYC;VT``````P`5# $````# >M`/X/!@```!X``3 !````%P```"=FM"S !````&@```%--5% Z1E)%14Y21RU,0$532TE-3RY#3TT````#```Y```` >M``L`0#H!`````@'V#P$````$`````````EHT`02 `0`9````4D4Z(&\O=2!R >M86UP(&ES(&YO="!O+W4_`+,'`06 `P`.````S0<%`!$`%P`.``H`!@`?`0$@ >M@ ,`#@```,T'!0`1`!8`, `2``8`2 $!"8 !`"$````S-C W1#8W03-!0T9$ >M,#$Q0CM)@``````"P`I```````#`"X```````,`-@``````0 `Y`!#+8;-28[P!'@!P >M``$````9````4D4Z(&\O=2!R86UP(&ES(&YO="!O+W4_``````(!<0`!```` >M%@````&\8U*S6'K6!S?/.A'0MQ@`H"2Z%C<``!X`'@P!````!0```%--5% ` >M````'@`?# $````7````9&5Q=6EC:V5R=$!U8V1A=FES+F5D=0```P`&$%U* >MI%(#``<0KP0``!X`"! !````90```%-!5%521$%9+$U!63$W+#$Y.3M,E!-15!)5$%865=23U1%.DQ/3TM33$E+15E/55)%4U1)4E))3D=42$5-55 Z >M*4I/2$Y,3T=!2D%.5U)/5$4Z5TE,3$E!34)%05195T\``````@$)$ $```"X >M!0``M 4``!$)``!,6D9UDTS@X/\`"@$/`A4"I /D!>L"@P!0$P-4`@!C: K >MM1&QG`H,U$P_L9C8/?Q"$?0J ",\)V>([&N\R-34"@ J!#;'!"V!N9S$P,Q0@ >M"P,@;&DQ-#0"T6DMWQ[3#- >TPM5&)(Q&) 4P%IO%4!C!4 &$'0(<&0887DL >M!= AT" Q-R$A\#$Y.3M.@J'"V078@P!(/8*CPTCN#XEOR$43&]O:T,$(!ZP:V4@>0A@)V4:\" 5,&ER >M!1 =\" "=!:0;2!U<" Z'BDG)25-*&\F3#Y*;\9H`Z J4&=A:@.1).NR/C&@ >M(%<#$!ZP82PP?$)E(8 DP1J1,1LQP"(A" !U;F0@`B!E(D@@;745,"!B*N!A >M;G<+$0F *_!O*_(T4"^V=2M@+%!P,M(1X"XD0)Y2#< TP"O#-M! `RL75L-$ U`B#%`A!R+#!O9B 1L#)QYRO!(? Z,4=O!T VD#31:$UO=BO! >M+C$Y,3E)`3I 22!#3$%)304]L6,#D6MN;V-K[310=3NA*L)4%2 "("'P_S(Q >M/< U-S7Q'R 1X 5 `V ]-"$_,3M*P$TH#)P`Z L`"& .R :\-MT#CPFG8U@6,:@!'P9"T:@+YO+&!)( 20.I$"(#\D0-\]P!'P*N X\"PP800@ >M2) ="W!M*\1%(37Q1$E$WSZ4,3<_#S?@!I!F!) )\+\%0#CA*]%.D2N0%J!Y >M/"CW0F@[$45B5R& /[%%DD9D_T4!4;$%0#YB-0$YX4HA2%#?28 #(!KP2K " >M(',Q*#$WRC$W`%0UP&5X-; `(-\TH#1A(C #4D60;DA0%3#U!;!S,3M< N -2#_`D!/,E&A0^$YT G@-$ X\IM%<#@(,U7#1S!O:31 _&%D2R "0$LZ >M-4 $(#0@>39@8V,'D#=0`R!8T2*O2)(KQ2J@21(B,3M, 3PN0AA86MPMYP"' [<0>0,3M?TP0#; [X%V@+)8C;2M_T+Q6\!#,AKP7:!(043T.W*?+)U9HA(`7: VP6$NM9B'POS!P.L)N% 0@->(V8&)#PO]=H%X"..,L`%010; NC"1 ?E0U\7!R3J$U >M0'#!.C%H_G4$8 7 $< T0'M!<-$%D/\P(&N@4^%&``"0-O C;GC^_E=%$7;Q >M-0`)\"M@26 #\'\KT0M@%4!&,3^P-"$JE49O&O$&<3[0=O%((1"!<"[@02Y2 >M+E0W`#0@4K&_6H %0$D!$?!9DW_0S4@%K%D >M"E!4`7_1(4$H_UFB/M8#31.C$UXG0!*X!C7P4@`'!1@$NQ&O I(?!H_F\'X$;$9#!<-#G !:$^X/]8 >MT5*Q-" K@ ,@15,[!Y\?<#H$1R4N-U`Q! M$[4 >M!;&]/K!T-P`]D3ZP!N!D(C"_/F)FH 5 4K$UL3+!:R'P^BHL`6Z)0$/!5E$U >MX@4![2N <0I0 ^RN !X$M>R$"8&:Q=\"!DK]/00= -8$R,(!A >M"' L+*RZ1 .149&@/M $D'0C; LFGAH1`)X``P`0$ `````#`!$0`````$ ` >M!S#@Y!,63V.\`4 `"##@Y!,63V.\`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B ``````P`- >'-/TW```G3&.\ >` >end > >how can I decode this above Geoff > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 18 19:31:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA13905; Sun, 18 May 1997 19:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 19:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <337F82EE.4009@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 15:30:06 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Fred gets new computer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kGDwT2.0.5P3.caxVp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3114 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all my friends out in e-mail land! I will be out of commission for a couple of days because I got a new computer and all sorts of things need to be done. Will talk to you next week with full multimedia :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 18 22:22:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA03555; Sun, 18 May 1997 22:22:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 22:22:03 -0700 Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 22:21:56 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: o/u ramp is not o/u? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"O3NFk3.0.St.wD-Vp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3115 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: message below .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 11:15:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ken G. Brown" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: o/u ramp is not o/u? By chance came across this patent info at 11/14/61 3,009,136 Flux-Doubling In Magnetic Cores 1K Inventors - David R. Bennion, Douglas C. Engelbart & E. K. Van De Riet 1K1 There are a few more related patents listed there as well. Am passing it along in case it might be helpful. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 18 22:32:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA05378; Sun, 18 May 1997 22:31:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 22:31:43 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC63DB.54C18E90@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Cc: "'egel@main.murray.net.au'" Subject: RE: MIME appendages Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 22:32:10 -0700 Encoding: 21 TEXT, 52 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"ToD3i3.0.xJ1.-M-Vp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3116 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I've been getting complaints again about a bunch of garbage attached at the end of my posts. Explained it once before, and thought I had it fixed, but one more time... It's MIME-encoded Microsoft Mail garbage - allows it to send other Microsoft mail clients formatting information. Unfortunately I have no indications here when the stuff is being put out or not - I can't see it. There's a way to turn it off, but that apparently doesn't always work and when it does, it doesn't stick. It's frustrating as hell. I'll be upgrading the mail client soon, hopefully that will take care of it. Meanwhile I'll be sure to toggle the feature on/off each time before sending any posts; that should help. If I can't get it resolved in a reasonable time I may use a different mail program to post to the list. Sorry for the inconvenience, Dan begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@T%`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`J (```(````,`````P``, ,````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965N2YN970N874`4TU44 !E9V5L0&UA:6XN;75R``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !````& ```&5G96Q ;6%I;BYM M=7)R87DN;F5T+F%U``,`%0P"`````P#^#P8````>``$P`0```!H````G96=E M;$!M86EN+FUU2YN970N874G`````@$+, $````=````4TU44#I%1T5, M0$U!24XN35524D%9+DY%5"Y!50`````#```Y``````L`0#H``````@'V#P$` M```$````````! (!^0\!````30````````"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"```! M`&5G96Q ;6%I;BYM=7)R87DN;F5T+F%U`%--5% `96=E;$!M86EN+FUU2YN970N874`````78`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````%P```&1E<75I8VME``@0`0```&4```!)5D5" M145.1T545$E.1T-/35!,04E.5%-!1T%)3D%"3U5404)53D-(3T9'05)"04=% M051404-(141!5%1(145.1$]&35E03U-44T584$Q!24Y%1$E43TY#14)%1D]2 M12Q!3D14``````(!"1 !````90,``&$#``#\! ``3%I&=6'[8UK_``H!#P(5 M`J0#Y 7K`H,`4!,#5 (`8V@*P'-E=.XR!@`&PP*#,@/&!Q,"@Q(S$P]F- ]Z M:&5LT0,@1&QG`H!]"H (S\4)V3L7GS(U-0* "H&##;$+8&YG,3 S%" '"PH4 M(@'0($DG=F6D(&()X2!G$@!T"X!49R %H&T+4W0$(&&N9PMQ'@`&X'4%0&$< M@,1U;A&P(&]F'- *P'9B'A <<&$"0 #0%B!DZ1_Q('06(" )\"!P'U% ;7D@ M<&]S'> NV"!%> M3(&%I!4 "(.YC''("$!>@+!X`(1$@P,D(8&=H!4!)(!' M(I/X9FEX"8 CD![P(L(<<.\$8!>@(+ '<2XF@ J%"H4(270G#]%)344MSPGP M!: -L"!P36D%`"&PNQ]0!4!-"W #(!^&+1X`&19 ;W<$("*Q=&\@?Q'P(1(@ MP07!*,<`P ,18_YL") =TB-1`, =! N +336:0(@(?!5+?)T'P`@`&\6,"& M)'(<86XJ\ N 9-\HP"Y#!" K@1QP=Q8@`Z#[(,(AP'4-T"*@!" @_2D`;!Q@ M(I$>44IA/( "(/\!H$221E(D< # (8 [X!_AWS?@!I!%`#>"+%1P`V ^@?YM M*M(AHC6C(-$LP"' )JWZ4P6P$T[1(7%!4CX;7!<``$"_)Q8*^Q+R'!%:51;!`%RP`````P`0$ `` M```#`!$0`0```$ `!S"0 Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 20:19:25 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OU Ramp References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ugoWu.0.gx7.g13Wp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3117 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Paul Callender wrote: > > Hi, > This is about the second time I have popped my head in this conference in > the last 6 months but I have been quietly reading and experimenting with > ideas tossed around here. > > Firstly I must say congratulations to Greg Watson. I have been impressed > with the way he is handling the distribution of instructions on his device > and am eagerly anticipating his instructions on building it. I'll be > watching from across the Tasman in NZ. > > What I want to know is if I have overunity in this situation. I take a ramp > of small incline upwards with magnets alongside it (like the patent > referred to in Greg's info earlier, patent 4,215,330) and place a > stationery steel ball at the bottom. Then I allow it to roll up it,when at > the end it drops suddenly (say a cm or two) at the end onto a downward > sloping ramp without magnets, thereby converting the gravity potential into > kinetic. Is the gravity cancelling the magnetic draw-back effect causing > overunity? Or does the magnetic potential and gravational potential cancel > out any chance of OU? I have a feeling this may be similar to the Bedini > magnetic gate, looks like OU but it aint. > > Thanks, > ................... > > Paul Callender Hi Paul, Assuming the ball has NO starting energy, then : 1) If the ball, on exit, drops lower than the starting height then it is not OU. 2) If the ball, on exit, drops to the starting level, but doesn't roll away (still on the starting level), then it is not OU. 3) if the ball, on exit, drops to the starting level and rolls away (still on the starting level) then its is OU. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 19 07:10:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA19725; Mon, 19 May 1997 06:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 06:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705191358.GAA19673@mx2.eskimo.com> Date: 19 May 1997 09:47 EDT Sender: "Gene Batten" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Gene Batten" Subject: re:The "Watson Effect" by the Numbers Resent-Message-ID: <"mBgqg3.0.2q4.6o5Wp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3118 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Great idea Greg. Thanks for sharing your work. I agree with others that this is the best way to proceed. Please consider posting pictures and/or drawings on a web page somewhere if possible. A few pictures can really help achieve understanding of your design. Pictures and drawings attached to e-mail postings to freenrg-l may work for some people, but there will be some who will have trouble viewing the images because of format problems, etc. Even with professionally written instructions and drawings, many people have difficulty understanding and assembling even simple devices such as Christmas toys, etc. Hopefully, members of freenrg-l are "above average" in this regard and will be able to follow your instructions well enough to successfully duplicate your device. I expect much discussion about the construction details of your device. I look forward to your postings. Regards, Gene Batten mdleb@nortel.ca In message "The "Watson Effect" by the Numbers", you write: > Hi All, > > I have just finished the first version of my OU toy. > > It is a closed loop system. > > Over the next several weeks, I will release a series of "How to > Duplicate" posts. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 19 09:04:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA12910; Mon, 19 May 1997 09:04:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:04:28 -0700 X-Sender: wharton@128.183.251.148 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:04:09 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Larry Wharton Subject: Re: Simple OU Device Resent-Message-ID: <"ylfhE3.0.d93.Be7Wp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3119 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greetings freenrg subscribers. I haven't posted much here but since Greg Watson is going to place his "Watson Effect" by the numbers here, I will put this here. As I understand it, theory is discouraged on freenergy in lieu of experimental results. I think that is a good thing as most theories introduced in a forum like this are worthless and a total waist of time, whereas experimental results are always of great value. The theory given here is simply the accepted form that could be taken out of any standard text on E&M. I am not introducing a new theory here but simply suggesting that existing theory may be applied to Greg's device to produce ou. In a message dated 5/17/97 8:04:23 AM, Greg wrote: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:45:02 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Correction Resent-Message-ID: <"LgYJE3.0.A55.jB8Wp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3120 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: snip---- This is the case of the the Tesla motor (imagined by Joe Newman to be his invention). snip---- >Lawrence E. Wharton >NASA/GSFC code 913 >Greenbelt MD 20771 >(301) 286-3486 Email - wharton@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov Dear Mr. Wharton, A correction to your above statement: Joseph Newman does not claim nor "imagine" the Tesla motor to be his invention. Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a physical existence in that intermediate space." --- MICHAEL FARADAY From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 19 10:26:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA16617; Mon, 19 May 1997 10:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:12:31 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970519131031_1854912561@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Muller motor Resent-Message-ID: <"r8wo1.0.Y34.qd8Wp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3121 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Would anyone care to comment on the work of a Mr. Muller (overunity electric motor & generator) I just found his site on the web and wanted to hear what others think about his claims. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 19 12:57:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA18888; Mon, 19 May 1997 12:55:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:55:43 -0700 Message-Id: <338079CB.25C5@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:03:23 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: test message Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vaJzM.0.zc4.z0BWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3122 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: test message From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 19 15:24:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA26033; Mon, 19 May 1997 15:23:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:23:18 -0700 From: geoff@compcafe.co.uk (Geoff Greaves) Reply-To: geoff@compcafe.co.uk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Muller motor Date: 19 May 1997 22:26:06 GMT Message-Id: <11784093.83238588@compcafe.co.uk> Organization: via Computer Cafes FC BBS Wales, UK Resent-Message-ID: <"ZMdfY.0.dM6.KBDWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3123 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com writes: Would anyone care to comment on the work of a Mr. Muller (overunity electric motor & generator) I just found his site on the web and wanted to hear what others think about his claims. Thanks, Butch LaFonte Making comments is not what I do as I'm just an inventive chap with nothing to sell, but if you send me some money I'll let you have a licence for limited use of my method for making comments that you can try to write your own with. Actually I thought there was a careful avoidance of making any claims other than being only interested in dealing with large (rich?) companies. Sorry, must be the residual toothache. I'll swallow an anti-cynicism capsule along with the anti-biotics! ---------------------------------------- >From Geoff Greaves: geoff@compcafe.co.uk ---------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 19 16:01:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA02255; Mon, 19 May 1997 15:59:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:59:46 -0700 Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 01:03:21 +0200 Message-Id: <199705192303.BAA07125@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Permanent Magnet motors are possible ! New theory article available ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"3uTmy3.0.uY.VjDWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3124 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A brand new article about permanent magnet motors by W.D. Bauer is on my server at http://www.overunity.de/magmotor/magmotor.htm It describes conditions under which the conservation laws of energy and angular momentum can be violated and be used for new energy production. The practical applications of this are perpetual motion machines. Some version proposed by e.g. Ecklin or Gary and their variations are discussed. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: www.detours.de www.overunity.de www.berlin-city.com email: harti@harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 19 21:07:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA00459; Mon, 19 May 1997 21:05:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 21:05:25 -0700 Message-Id: <338122A7.6913@centuryinter.net> Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 23:03:51 -0500 From: andrew Reply-To: gyro@centuryinter.net Organization: the truth is out there X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Hopper Coil Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BrakA.0.07.3CIWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3125 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: does anyone have any information on the Hopper Coil ? here's a link telling a little bit about it http://www.world-famous.com/DonKellyStuff/*KellyAntiGra.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 19 22:18:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA22030; Mon, 19 May 1997 22:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:01:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <11784093.83238588@compcafe.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:58:23 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Muller motor Resent-Message-ID: <"6fpg7.0.yN5.B0JWp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3126 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Geoff - > I'll swallow an anti-cynicism capsule... WHOAH! Don't swallow that capsule yet - it might stunt your sense of humor! You were doing so well. :) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 19 22:28:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA25334; Mon, 19 May 1997 22:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:13:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:53:50 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Simple OU Device Resent-Message-ID: <"S-omz.0.gB6.DCJWp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3127 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Larry Wharton wrote: > This is the case of the Tesla motor (imagined > by Joe Newman to be his invention). Could you be more specific about which Tesla motor you're refering to? He patented quite a few motors of various types, and some of them were homopolar. Was it one of those? I think one tended to use the magnetism from eddy currents in the conductive disc in some regenerative way. Thanks for posting your notes too, I think they might prove to be useful in the eventual understanding of the process by which Greg's gizmo works. Thermodynamics seems like a good place to look for the source of the energy. If it's organizing random heat into useable magnetic energy though, isn't that an apparent 2nd law violation, or do you think it will turn out to be just a sort of tricky heat pump after all? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 03:43:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA14063; Tue, 20 May 1997 03:42:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 03:42:48 -0700 Message-ID: <33803B57.6408@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 21:06:55 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple Ou Toy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"A0Yub2.0.XR3.e0OWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3128 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have finished the drawings and instructions for the phase 1 device. I designed it to be very simple to build (only a ruler, hacksaw, file, balse knife and superglue) and to use very easy to find material (3mm sheet balsa, 12mm alum "U" channel, 3x10mm steel bar, small ceramic fridge type magnets (4.5x10x13mm), 4 x straight pins and a 12mm steel ball). The design is based on the "KISS" principal. Cost is around $20 or Aust ($15 US). The phase 1 device is a single class two ramp (ball climbs ramp, exits and drops to original level) with a 250mm ramp and a 25mm lift. It is based on one of my working ramp, only simpler. The building of ramps and the mastering of the magnet adjustments are very necessary for success in the following 3 phases. To double check, I decided to follow my own instructions and build a unit "strictly" from the instructions. Well, it simple to build and looks great but, after four hours of playing, checking, fiddlying and then getting mad, I can't get the ball to fully climb the ramp! I suspect I have built up the side magnet assys incorrectly or some of my "NEW" magnets are soft. I will still try for Tuesday, but I may be a little late. I want the design to be 100% solid. PS, I will post to both Freenrg-l and Vortex-l due to many requests. Thanks for the support guys. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 04:14:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA16947; Tue, 20 May 1997 04:13:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 04:13:45 -0700 Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 13:13:42 +0200 (METDST) Message-Id: <199705201113.NAA15785@imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin@mail2.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Nazi Usenet Hoax Resent-Message-ID: <"8PYir.0.i84.eTOWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3129 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all ! Well, seems the old "New Nazi Usenet Group" hoax made a brief appearance on this list recently. It also resurfaced in France a few weeks ago. Actually it's not originally a hoax, unlike the "Good Times virus" scare mails, but it breeds the same way. Mailing lists are of course a good ecological niche for those critters, except there they meet two potent predators. One is The Guy Who Bothers To Check With The Supposed Originator - thanks J.F. Schenk here. The other predator is The Guy Who Has Read The Straight Dope From A Computer Journal - that's me today. The original affair dates from 1994. The Nazi group was efficiently vetoed, with hundreds of "no" and only 23 "yes". Since then no other attempt was made, at least under that name. But the mails keep reappearing, in a characteristic non-linear chaotic way. I'm sure we'll meet them again some day... Cheers --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin lentin@imaginet.fr --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 07:50:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA14238; Tue, 20 May 1997 07:49:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 07:49:30 -0700 Message-ID: <338184F9.D0D00C98@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 20:33:21 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg , List Server Vortex Subject: Simple OU Toy X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eU8z_3.0.MU3.udRWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3130 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Just a few answers : 1) The Simple OU Toy is not my rotary device. Same leg action, different dog. 2) It is a closed loop version of the patent 4,215,330, with improvements. 3) There will be 4 phases of construction : Phase 1, Single straignt mag ramp. Phase 2, Multiple linked straight mag ramps. Phase 3, Single curved ramp. (Yes, the secret is sort of out. Don't curve the connecting track, curve the ramp!) Phase 4, Multiple linked curved ramp (in a circle if you must). Yes, the little ball rolls around and around, while stayng on the "Neutral Line". No, you can't just wait for the final installment to build one as certain skills must be mastered along the way to get the thing working. Construction cost per ramp is around $20 Aust ($15 US). 4) I am trying to arrange a US and European web page to host the construction details along with actual pictures (still and moving) of the working devices. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 07:52:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA14865; Tue, 20 May 1997 07:51:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 07:51:45 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 06:49:07 -0800 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Simple Ou Toy Resent-Message-ID: <"YdSWe1.0.4e3.0gRWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3131 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 9:06 PM 5/19/97, Greg Watson wrote: >Hi All, > >I have finished the drawings and instructions for the phase 1 device. > >I designed it to be very simple to build (only a ruler, hacksaw, file, >balse knife and superglue) and to use very easy to find material (3mm >sheet balsa, 12mm alum "U" channel, 3x10mm steel bar, small ceramic >fridge type magnets (4.5x10x13mm), 4 x straight pins and a 12mm steel >ball). The design is based on the "KISS" principal. Cost is around $20 >or Aust ($15 US). >[snip] >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax Greg, This is terrific! I am especially impressed with the small size, which is very handy. Would you consider putting together kits? Add 100% profit or more and charge mailing. It would be well worth it to be working with the same kinds of parts as most everyone else, and not to have to go looking for parts. I just wrote: "Now, if we could get an estimate from Greg of an elevation and resulting rolling distance, we have a basis for determining the rolling friction. It is then a question of how many balls move at what speed in the looping device to be tested. The dimensions of 5 cm by 15 cm were given, but it would be useful to know the third dimension, including rise. I forgot to mention that we also need the weight of the ball(s)." If the ball size is exactly 12mm , then we don't need the weight, it can be calculated. Here's tha calorimeter data again: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - I just did a quick check on a large wide mouth Dewar flask (about 4.5 liter) made of thick glass to get a worst case feel for sensitivity (much worse than with the much smaller food jar pairs and fine wire leads, high impedence thermistors.) I didn't use a second opposing flask, only the polypropylene top that came with the flask. I set the flask upside down with thermister leads and calibration resistor leads going through the LN2 vent holes in the side of the lid, which were not sealed. The lid, with attached upside down flask, was set on top of a large block of polyurethane packing foam. No outside temperature controlled environment was provided. Temperature outside the flask was measured at 3 points and averaged, and the temperature inside the flask was measured at the top and bottom of the flask, and averaged. A large but stable temperature gradient developed inside the flask. An outside enclosure and inside fan are needed for best results. The 5 probe Cole-Parmer thermistor thermometer (H-08502-12) and probes (08430-00) used are certified traceable to NIST standards and have a rated accuracy of 0.2 deg. C or 0.36 deg. F absolute and 0.01 C or 0.01 F relative. A 1.2 K resistor (measured at 1.199 K) was used for calibration. Only one calibration point was run due to the long time constant for the device (about 60 min.) The run took 5 hours to reach equilibrium. The supply voltage was measured at 10.07 V. The current was 8.4 mA, giving total power of 0.0846 W. This gives a calibration constant of 49.2 mW/deg. C, or 38.26 mW/deg. F. A limit to yes/no resolution is thus about 1 mW. I should mention that when the power was put on the resistor that it was apparent in the top thermistor readings within seconds. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - A sample calculation with roughly estimated data: Now, using 6mm as a ball radius, that's a volume of 4/3 Pi r^3 = 1.5 cm^3. Using the density of iron, that gives a ball weight of (7.86 g/cm^3)(1.5 cm^3) = 11.8 g. Let's assume a drop of 1 cm results in a total rollout distance of 1m in about 5 seconds. Assuming a very short dropping ramp and ignoring rotational energy the initial rollout speed is V = (2 g h)^0.5 = ((2)(9.8 m/sec^2)(0.01 m))^0.5 = 0.44 m/sec. This gives a kinetic energy Ek = 0.5 m v^2 = (0.5)(0.0118 kg)(01.96 m^2 s^-2) = 1.156x10^-3 kg m/s^2. Assuming a rollout distance of 1 m we have friction energy loss of 1.156x10^-3 J/m. Assuming the ball in the device averages a speed of 0.2 m/s we have a power output of only 2.31x10^-4 J/s = 0.231 mW. This is almost measurable using the crude techniques above. A little refinement in technique and insulation, and the use of some high impedence thermistors (a few dollars each) in a temperature differential bridge should provide an adequate test to determine something about the source of energy. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 08:43:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA28401; Tue, 20 May 1997 08:35:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 08:35:57 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705201535.LAA11260@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Parts To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:35:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"SQ5KY2.0.bx6.RJSWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3132 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Any ideas what I can do with a 9 volt, 60 ma solar panel (I have 2)? What about a 1 rpm gear motor? Also, can anyone tell me how to configure a photo flash transformer? Can I get high voltages out of it? Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 11:05:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA28063; Tue, 20 May 1997 11:04:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:04:42 -0700 Message-Id: <3381B111.1F38@mail.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 07:14:08 -0700 From: "Fred B. Epps" Organization: Pegasus Products X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Dispute: a means or an end? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6h1Vk3.0.Ns6.vUUWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3133 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All: Is it possible that those who wish to dispute the subject of the Newman machine could confine themselves to private email exchanges, or some other medium of communication? Am I the only one who is tired of this endless flame war? Isn't it obvious that the detractors of the Newman machine are never going to accept that it works, and isn't it equally obvious that its proponents will always accept that it works? A consequence of these truisms is that discussion between these two groups is futile. The fact that these truisms are not acknowledged by the parties involved tells me that they enjoy the disputation for its own sake. More power to them, but perhaps they could have their 200-round boxing match somewhere else. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 11:36:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA01388; Tue, 20 May 1997 11:35:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:35:41 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC6512.067E79E0@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Dispute: a means or an end? Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:36:14 -0700 Encoding: 17 TEXT, 42 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"VjMIK3.0.WL.yxUWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3134 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred Epps wrote: > Is it possible that those who wish to dispute the subject of the > Newman machine could confine themselves to private email exchanges, or > some other medium of communication? > Am I the only one who is tired of this endless flame war? [snip] I, too, wish the Newman dispute would go elsewhere. To those who argue with Newman/Soule': I'm on your side of the fence but you're wasting your time and clogging up the list with noise. You must know by now that any mention of Newman that isn't positive will result in a response by Soule'. If Newman must be mentioned, accept the fact that Soule' will post a response, rational or not, and let it pass. Please don't continue the argument. Spinning topic ally yours, Dan Quickert begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@\2`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965N# $` M```%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!<```!D97%U:6-K97)T0'5C9&%V:7,N M961U```#``8076-./0,`!Q!.`@``'@`($ $```!E````1E)%1$504%-74D]4 M13I)4TE44$]34TE"3$542$%45$A/4T572$]725-(5$]$25-0551%5$A%4U5" M2D5#5$]&5$A%3D5734%.34%#2$E.14-/54Q$0T].1DE.151(14U314Q610`` M```"`0D0`0````\#```+`P````4``$Q:1G55,V@)_P`*`0\"%0*D`^0%ZP*# M`% 3`U0"`&-H"L!S973N,@8`!L,"@S(#Q@<3`H,B,P]Z:&5L`R!$;.IG`H,T M$PU]"H (SPG9XCL7GS(U-0* "H$-L<$+8&YG,3 S%" +"A,5P@'0($87H2!% M<(IP!"!W`V!T93H*AY<;>@J@'/)C!4 ^(!\R71V]8P! 'V\>IDD$(&DI!4!P M;P00:0)@92"^=!' !4 C("*@(P!W(X!;'- $`&@C$"/P9 0`< YU'1 C$2,` MXF]F)0(*A1\A!\$#@IT`P6@+@",`!:!U;!QP606@;F8G@B41;1'P M;,YV!Y$D81Z@:78C0",`YRC "W #(&5X$;$:H >0ZBPEP'(F.',#<",`'0#/ M%/ %P > ))!U;27"!:"H;6UU`P!C(T!I`B"N/QU/&_,?(T$LT$DE`WD"(&QY M,#$CM 0`(Q!I[QQ2)=,Q$0GP9"+P!!$:<34K\7<*P#\?, J%6W-Y`P!P72X/ M("<*BPS0,6PT-!Z!-,])*O D8&]?*O D%"4A)M4DEG K 9PI0) $C((DFQ2]3)]%E)SHB(+8G+-$#H'D(825 :0VP MUR7%,I )\&,C`&(DT#Y"]B<7H#+Q M`C MP27")M4C(P0`;OXG(G,B8"F@/((5$1>@)5#V;$<1`Z!A2&(BD " /Z&W M,' ]9#M024971"-B(P#_1<4)@"KP`- _D 4Q/R,`T/\C4B-!/61(%"*116%) M)RKPWG(MHP= *P%#871,(4&AKR+P1Q$B<4" IE6E%L$`7/ ``P`0$ `````#`!$0 M`````$ `!S @-3U[3&6\`4 `"# @-3U[3&6\`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B ` -`````P`--/TW```91F6\ ` end From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 12:07:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA06620; Tue, 20 May 1997 12:06:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:06:12 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705201906.PAA26693@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: UFO Scope To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:06:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"f6Kec1.0.Ld1.YOVWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3135 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey, I just built a light-listining device useing a .75 volt solor cell and an audio amp. Any ideas of what I should look at with it? The computer screen, incendecent, and phosperecent lights all sound different. Any other ideas? Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 12:07:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA06811; Tue, 20 May 1997 12:06:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:06:50 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705201906.PAA26725@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Electronics To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:06:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"BiogV1.0.Kg1.9PVWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3136 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Can some one please recomend a good book on learning electronics? I know some of the basics, but not much. Can someone tell me where to look to learn more? Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 13:03:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA03758; Tue, 20 May 1997 12:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3381F034.EC255D7C@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 22:40:52 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re:Dispute: a means or an end? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YqDao2.0.cw.51WWp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3137 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan Quickert wrote: > If Newman must be mentioned, accept the fact that Soule' will post a > response, rational or not, and let it pass. Please don't continue the > argument. Thank you very much for your warnings. Sorry for I read your postings lately just after posting my final letter, although I thought the same thing. This is a hopeless case. There will be only a profit from such a debate is to learning how to manage frauds and isolate them for not harming the real free energy researches. This issue will have prime importance when the Greg's work is become available. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 13:18:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA18295; Tue, 20 May 1997 13:17:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 13:17:24 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:14:47 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Electronics Resent-Message-ID: <"QIuIl3.0.iT4.JRWWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3138 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 3:06 PM 5/20/97, Science wig. sig. wrote: >Can some one please recomend a good book on learning electronics? I know >some of the basics, but not much. Can someone tell me where to look to >learn more? >Andrew -- >+-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ I'm just learing electronics myself, as time permits, so I've been through a few of these hoops lately. One of the best for beginner self study is "Grob Basic Electronics", by Grob, McGraw Hill, ISBN 0-02-800762-X (Call 1-800-262-4729 to get McGraw Hill toll free). Lots of physics along with the electronics. It goes very slow, but that's why it is good for self study. It spells out everything. I recommend you do lots of the problems with answers supplied. It's boring but well worth the time. For lots of circuits to play with, try the McGraw Hill "Encyclopedia of Electronics". Don't spend a lot of money on the books like I have, though, get the CD ROM version. I got the first four book volumes super cheap, for like about $15, by joining the McGraw Hill EE Book Club, but the follow on volumes have cost a bit. You can print the circuit diagrams from the CD on a PC. "Electrionic Devices", Floyd, Prentice Hall, ISBN 0-13-363599-6 (electron flow version) seems pretty good. An absolute must eventually is "The Art of Electronics", second edition, by Paul Horowiz and Winfield Hill, Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0-521-37095-7. Also, the "cookbooks" are a must - the "TTL Cookbook", "CMOS Cookbook", and "Op Amp Cookbook". I don't have those yet so don't have other info. Would appreciate it if anyone does. As with most things, I'm just plodding along a bit at a time. That's an amateur viewpoint. I'm eager to hear what someone who knows what he is doing has to say. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 13:24:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA19270; Tue, 20 May 1997 13:23:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 13:23:04 -0700 Message-ID: <33823203.4F47@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:21:39 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Dispute: a means or an end? References: <01BC6512.067E79E0@ristra.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QSfJJ3.0._i4.dWWWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3139 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan Quickert wrote: > > Fred Epps wrote: > > Is it possible that those who wish to dispute the subject of the > > Newman machine could confine themselves to private email exchanges, or > > some other medium of communication? > > Am I the only one who is tired of this endless flame war? > [snip] > > I, too, wish the Newman dispute would go elsewhere. To those who argue with > Newman/Soule': I'm on your side of the fence but you're wasting your time > and clogging up the list with noise. You must know by now that any mention > of Newman that isn't positive will result in a response by Soule'. If > Newman must be mentioned, accept the fact that Soule' will post a response, > rational or not, and let it pass. Please don't continue the argument. I agree that any discussion of the technical merits of Newman's work is futile. As the Newman camp will not discuss any specifics of their basis for threatening and suppressing other inventors with legal action, I see no point in any direct discussions at all. >From a purly technical standpoint, it might be interesting to discuss some of Tesla's motors, but I fear any such discussion would degenerate into more of the same flame-wars we all have suffered in the past. (And my apologies to all for the bandwidth I've wasted on this in the past!) So, what do we do when a new freenrg-l subscriber shows up and asks the question? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 15:19:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA08631; Tue, 20 May 1997 15:18:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:18:14 -0700 From: mindtech@om.com.au Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:02:42 +1000 Message-Id: <9705202202.AA15642@atom.om.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@om.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: o/u ramp is not o/u? Resent-Message-ID: <"z-QHk3.0.m62.cCYWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3140 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>purposes (ie. the TED device) >> Can you provide a ref or more infor on the TED device? Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 15:57:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA25918; Tue, 20 May 1997 15:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:42:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 17:41:27 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re:Dispute: a means or an end? Resent-Message-ID: <"ejddI2.0.tK6.PZYWp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3141 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Dan Quickert wrote: > >> If Newman must be mentioned, accept the fact that Soule' will post a >> response, rational or not, and let it pass. Please don't continue the >> argument. > > >Thank you very much for your warnings. Sorry for I read your postings >lately just after posting my final letter, although I thought the same >thing. >This is a hopeless case. There will be only a profit from such a debate >is to learning how to manage frauds and isolate them for not harming the >real free energy researches. This issue will have prime importance when >the Greg's work is become available. > >Regards, > >Hamdi Ucar Dear Mr. Ucar, The only thing which is "hopeless" is your Cremonini-attitude. It is obvious that you have no conception or understanding of this technology and yet you believe yourself qualified to "pass judgement." If you wish to learn how to 'manage frauds,' I would suggest you borrow Mr. Rothwell's "mirror" --- when he isn't observing his own reflection --- and begin by observing your own actions. Gyroscopically yours, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html P.S. Since you had earlier requested additional information, I have separately forwarded same to your email address. "Light is electromagnetic in nature and consists of 'negative' and 'positive' gyroscopic particles traveling in the same direction and having opposite spins." --- JOSEPH NEWMAN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 16:22:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA28882; Tue, 20 May 1997 16:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33822E58.17A74790@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:36:00 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg , List Server Vortex Subject: Simple Ou Toy web sites X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lDN9J1.0.x27.gxYWp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3142 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Jean-Louis and Stefan have agreeded to host the "Simple OU Toy" details. 1) They will publish the construction plans. Jean-Louis will clean up my hand draw sketches. Thanks Jean-Louis. 2) They will build the devices from the plans. 3) They will test the devices and publish the results. 4) They will publish Jpeg's and Mpeg's of the working devices. ANY QUESTIONS SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO ME. Anyone else who wishes to post details on their web sites is free to do so. PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING : The "Simple OU Toy" is a modification of the device in US patent 4,215,330. It is NOT the device I am patenting. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 16:44:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA01810; Tue, 20 May 1997 16:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:25:26 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Status of Toy OU Device Resent-Message-ID: <"bMUNU.0.vR.tEZWp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3143 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It appears the Toy OU device some of us are about to build is, or is soon to be, public domain. The Hartman patent, 4,215,330, was issued Jul. 29, 1980, almost 17 years ago. I am not sure if the provision made it in to the recent patent legislation, but it is possible the Hartman patent will be extended to 20 years, assuming the fees are paid up to date. Most patents expire early due to failure to pay the expensive renewal fees. Depending on whether the fees are paid up it may or may not be OK to sell kits right now. The other extensions to the Hartman idea, like sending the ball back around in a circle, were posted here on a public domain list. If the basic idea works, it will mean free energy (however small) to all who can afford to build and maintain the device. Maybe an eventual big quesion: can it be scaled up? Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 17:01:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA03480; Tue, 20 May 1997 16:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:42:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 18:43:12 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Dispute: a means or an end? Resent-Message-ID: <"bEqu_1.0.Es.DRZWp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3144 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Dan Quickert wrote: >> >> Fred Epps wrote: >> > Is it possible that those who wish to dispute the subject of the >> > Newman machine could confine themselves to private email exchanges, or >> > some other medium of communication? >> > Am I the only one who is tired of this endless flame war? >> [snip] >> >> I, too, wish the Newman dispute would go elsewhere. To those who argue with >> Newman/Soule': I'm on your side of the fence but you're wasting your time >> and clogging up the list with noise. You must know by now that any mention >> of Newman that isn't positive will result in a response by Soule'. If >> Newman must be mentioned, accept the fact that Soule' will post a response, >> rational or not, and let it pass. Please don't continue the argument. > >I agree that any discussion of the technical merits of Newman's work is >futile. > >As the Newman camp will not discuss any specifics of their basis for >threatening >and suppressing other inventors with legal action, I see no point in any >direct discussions at all. > I would hope one would agree that it is generally best to follow the advice of one's attorney -- especially when he has specifically advised you to follow such a course. And let's establish this for the record: I have no desire to argue with anyone. I was minding my own business -- now and then posting information as appropriate -- when, out-of-the-blue, Mr. Rothwell chooses to publicly post insults. Mr. Rothwell's action began this particular series of bandwidth threads. If anyone have any problems with the nature of the bandwidth discussion, I would invite them to take such problems up with Mr. Rothwell. Gyroscopically yours, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html The First Law of Thermodynamics proves that the implications of the Second Law of Thermodynamics are incorrect." --- JOSEPH NEWMAN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 17:45:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA07664; Tue, 20 May 1997 17:42:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 17:42:42 -0700 Message-ID: <33824491.E9F9777E@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 10:10:49 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server Freenrg Subject: Re: Simple Ou Toy web sites X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <33822E58.17A74790@microtronics.com.au> <338234DB.3BD5@math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dOoBW2.0.9t1.vJaWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3145 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > > PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING : > > > > The "Simple OU Toy" is a modification of the device in US patent > > 4,215,330. > > > > It is NOT the device I am patenting. > > > > Please clarify: what is the relation to the ball-on-track > device you described, and also the relation to your > recently completed quest to "close the loop"?? > > -- > Barry Merriman Hi Barry, Both are "Close The Loop Devices". Shall we call them "CTLD"? I believe the "Simple OU Toy" CTLD is very much in the public domain, but will show mag based OU is possible. It is different enough not to clash with the patent 4,215,330 but that's just my opinion. My latest CTLD, is very different. I will disclose details of that device some time in the future. The "Simple OU Toy" CTLD is an attempt to prove what I have, without giving the farm away. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 20:46:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA02381; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:44:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 20:44:12 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 18:16:08 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Peter Nielson's question on TED device Resent-Message-ID: <"XTm8J2.0.xZ.zzcWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3147 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 8:02 AM 5/21/97, mindtech@om.com.au wrote: > >Can you provide a ref or more infor on the TED device? > >Peter Nielsen This a concept that I cooked up recently. I have posted on vortex an idea for an n-type Ge device that is expected to produce current in violation of the second law. It was batted about there a bit, but mostly dismissed as not feasible. I'll post today's version of the document here on freenrg in two parts. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 20:49:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA04869 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:49:24 -0700 Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 20:49:24 -0700 X-Envelope-From: hheffner@corecom.net Tue May 20 20:48:12 1997 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA04528 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:48:09 -0700 Received: from home.corecom.net (root@[199.237.128.11]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA27141 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 19:18:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [199.237.131.246] (palmer26.corecom.net [199.237.131.246]) by home.corecom.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA12128 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 18:28:50 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Old-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 18:16:00 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Thermal Electromagnetic Drift (TED) - Part 2 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: THERMAL ELECTROMAGNETIC DRIFT (TED) - Horace Heffner 5/20/97 (Part 2) A RATCHET MECHANISM The field E generated by charge accumulation at x axis ends of the cell is backwards, i.e. contrary to the current flow. The negative side is the left side towards which electrons migrate. It is the E that thwarts the migration. Keeping up the current flow is a matter of keeping the resistance of the loop low to avoid much of an E. E and the ion speeds, and diversion due to collisions, are the primary things that limit the current flow. Despite drift speed limitations, the right-left drift should be finite and continue indefinitely. The electrons should leave the left side of the compartment "hot", i.e. under pressure and with relatively high average speed. Their energy is spent in the resistive loop, heating it, and they return on the right side cool. This is ignoring electrode work functions, etc. However, there is some hope that if the idea is sound then an experiment could be successful because the right to left electrostatic gradient is additive. Therefore, many such cells or an arbitrarily long cell can be strung together to achieve any desired potential. The key to success then is simply obtaining a medium that maintains a supply of ions, electrons or holes, capable of cyclotronic drift at ambient temperatures. The proposed semiconductor medium should fulfill that role nicely. As mentioned earlier, the dopant (e.g. P) atoms tend to trap electrons with a binding energy of about -0.01 eV, which is less than the average thermal kinetic energy of about 0.023 eV for a 270 deg. kelvin operating environment for the germanium crystal lattice. Given no resistance, and thus no potential barrier, significant and measurable currents might be detected from a TEDD cell at an operating B of about 0.5 T and dB/dy of about 0.1 T and dopant density of about 10^22 atoms/m^2. Resistance in the crystal lattice is mostly in the form of heat due to collisions with lattice atoms, and interactions with dopants and impurities. However, in the face of a building reverse electrostatic field barrier built due to resistance to electron flow, the electron interaction with the dopant might provide a ratchet mechanism to permit the gradual overcoming of a potential barrier. As an electron drifts against a potential field, it loses kinetic energy, meaning it cools. This makes the cool electron susceptible to recapture by a dopant atom, especially after the electron cools to below the 0.01 eV binding energy with the dopant. Once captured, the electron is hung on a notch of the ratchet mechanism. It will not get out, nor move backwards, until it has absorbed sufficient thermal energy from the dopant atom and surrounding lattice, etc., to overcome the -0.01 eV well. When it does get out, it then again drifts forward until captured again. If the electron should sufficiently slow, due to Brownian motion, or motion mostly in the z axis, etc., it can drift backwards in a direction with the E field. However, it then should pick up kinetic energy in the xy plane from that backward movement with the E field, and then tend to be much more likely to drift to the left, and to drift left at an increasingly higher rate. The ratchet mechanism should be very fine toothed, in that even in the purest crystals and lowest operating temperatures only a few orbits an be achieved on average. The ratchet tooth height of about 1/2 the average kinetic energy seems about ideal. The ratchet mechanism greatly reduces the current due to the time delay required for the electrons to pick up the required thermal energy while pinned to the dopant atoms. However, it does permit movement of the drift current against a potential barrier, and thus permits useful work to be done at the expense of cooling the crystal lattice. SAMPLE CURRENT ESTIMATE WITH R AND E ASSUMED TO BE ZERO Let's assume we can achieve operation in an average of a 0.5 T field with a dB/dy magnetic field gradient of -0.1 T/cm, and a drift electron density of Nd = 10^22/m^3. Assume M* to be about Me/10 = 0.91 10^-31 kg. Elementary charge e = 1.6x10^-19 C. We get the angular frequency Wc = (e)(B)/m* = (1.6x10^-19 C)(0.5 T)/(0.91 10^-31 kg) = 1.76x10^12 rad s^-1, or a frequency: f = 1.4x10^11 sec^-1. Assume average thermal energy 270 deg. kelvin. At 11,600 deg. K/eV that's 0.023 eV. At 1.6x10^-19 J/eV we have an average free electron energy of 3.7x10^-21 J. Assuming we can apply E = 0.5(M*)(Vxyz^2), we have: 3.7x10^-21 k*m^2/s^2 = 0.5(0.91 10^-31 kg)(Vxyz^2) Vxyz = 2.85x10^5 m/s However, 2/3 of v should be in the xy plane and 1/3 in the z plane on average, so we get an xy plane velocity of: Vxy = v = 1.9x10^5 m/s Given a time of 1/f = 1/(1.4x10^11 sec^-1) = 7.14x10^-12 sec, this give an orbital circumference of v/f = (1.9x10^5 m/s)(7.14x10^-12 sec) = 1.36x10^-6 m. This gives an orbital diameter of: Do = 4.33x10^-7 m Given that dB/dy = -0.1 T/cm = -10 T/m, we have delta B = (-10 T/m)(4.33x10^-7 m) = -4.33x10^-6 T across the range of the loop. This means the bottom radius averages roughly about (0.5)(4.33x10^-6 T)/(0.5 T) = 4.33x10^-6 times the top radius in the loop, giving a Td on the x axis of: Td = (4.33x10^-6)(4.33x10^-7 m) = 1.86x10^-12 m. Note that the factor 0.5 is used in order to average the B across the top loop, and to similarly average B over the bottom loop. Given a repetition rate of f = 1.4x10^11 sec^-1 we have a drift rate: Vd = (Td)(f) = (1.86x10^-12 m)(1.4x10^11 sec^-1) = 1.6 m/s. Using Nd = 10^22 m^-3 we get a current density: J = (Vd)(Nd)/(6x10^18 electrons/s/ampere) = (1.6 m/s)(10^22 m^-3)/(6x10^18 electrons/s/ampere) = 2660 amperes/m^2. Assuming a conductor of 10^-3 m on a side, or 10^-6 m^2 cross section, we should get a current of 2.66 mA, assuming no resistance. Checking orbital radius with formula: Ro = (m*)(v)/((q)(B)) = (0.91 10^-31 kg)(1.9x10^5 m/s)/((1.6x10^-19 C)(0.5 T)) Ro = 2.16x10^-7 m Ro = Do/2 = (4.33x10^-7 m)/2 = 2.165x10^-7 check DESIGNS FOR SCALING UP ELECTRIC CURRENT GENERATION FIG. 5 is a drawing of a side view cross section, z axis top to bottom, of a device using two magnets, M1 and M2, where chamber X meets the above description from the viewer's perspective (he is at the bottom looking up,) and chamber Y reverses those flows, etc. -------------------- "Top | N M1 S | of -------------------- "Bottom of page" page" --------- --------- | X | | Y | Electrons flow out of page in X --------- --------- and into page in Y -------------------- | S M2 N | -------------------- 8^) <--------- Viewer FIG. 5 Note that the B field can be further shaped to control dB/dy by contouring the magnets or by ferrous material insertion. There is no limit to the length of the x axis in the configuration shown in FIG. 5. Looking at FIG. 6, X might be a cross section of two sides of a TEDD shaped like a ring. -------------------- -------------------- | N M1 S | | S M1 N | -------------------- -------------------- --------- --------- | X | | X | --------- --------- -------------------- -------------------- | S M2 N | | N M2 S | -------------------- -------------------- FIG. 6 The chamber could be placed to the outside of the ring, as with Y in FIG. 7, or some combination of the two. -------------------- -------------------- | N M1 S | | S M1 N | -------------------- -------------------- --------- --------- | Y | | Y | --------- --------- -------------------- -------------------- | S M2 N | | N M2 S | -------------------- -------------------- FIG. 7 A device might be formed into a coil, as shown in FIG. 8. -------------------- | N M1 S | -------------------- --------- --------- | X | | Y | --------- --------- -------------------- | S M2 N | -------------------- --------- --------- | Q | | R | --------- --------- -------------------- | N M1 S | -------------------- --------- --------- | X | | Y | --------- --------- -------------------- | S M2 N | -------------------- --------- --------- | Q | | R | --------- --------- ... etc. FIG. 8 A TEDD can be built by cutting or etching a chip into a spiral configuration where the magnetic field diminishes radially, as in FIG. 9. Multiple chips can be stacked in three dimensions, the outer end of the spiral of one level attached to the inner end of the next level. | S | \ / \ / \ / \/ ========== <------- Spiral chip layers ---------- | N | | | FIG. 9 Note that the primary objective of the TEDDs in Figures 5 through 9 is electric current generation and not heat. In this case lateral heat flow between opposite conducting chambers X and Y is good, as it helps maintain the thermal energy of the TED. This can be used to advantage to form layered chip technology, as in FIG 10, can be made using ferrous prisms, designated M in FIG 10, between semiconductor layers to shape the magnetic field to achieve the gradient dB/dy. Electrons flow into page in chambers X and out of page in chambers (semiconductors) Y. Each layer can thus be made from a single chip where the x' and Y's are all one continuous piece of semiconductor cut or etched into folds that serpentine back and forth across the chip, and separated by supporting and insulating material. The substrate, if any, would have to be non-conductive. | | | S | ------------------------- M M M M M M M M M XY XY XY XY XY XY XY XY M M M M M M M M M XY XY XY XY XY XY XY XY M M M M M M M M M XY XY XY XY XY XY XY XY M M M M M M M M M XY XY XY XY XY XY XY XY M M M M M M M M M ------------------------- | N | | | FIG. 10 A PRELIMINARY TEST OF N-TYPE SILICON A solar cell was obtained that was made up of many pieces of probably surplus silicon chip fragment tiled together in a protective plastic box with dimensions about 45x75x5 mm. Some of the tiles had only parallel conductive strips deposited on their surfaces. They were affixed to a metal foil on the bottom and had strips of foil laid over their tops to collect the current. A 5x12 mm trapezoidal chip fragment was removed that had only 3 parallel metal strips on the top. The parallel metal strips were about 2.5 mm apart and ran diagonally across the chip. The chip had a lacework of metal grid lines deposited on its back side. The potential front to back under a fluorescent light was 23 mV. Two pieces of No.40 copper wire were soldered to the outer most metal strips on the top of the chip. The leads were then soldered back onto the original lugs in the protective plastic package from which the much larger composite cell had been removed . Resistance was 26.7 ohms in the dark. Holding it up to the light made the resistance drop to under 25 ohms. The light exposed side of the chip was negative, indicating an n-type silicon surface layer. The DMM was then set to a 200 mV range. A 35 MGo magnet was then moved about the chip. There was no sign of voltage. There was no response on the micro-amp scale either. When set to measure resistance, however, the motion of the magnet was clearly sensed by the meter, i.e. the change in sensed current due to moving flux, but there was no sustained change in resistance measured when no element was in motion. A much more sensitive meter is needed. A PRELIMINARY CHECK ON COPPER FOR A TED EFFECT In an attempt to determine if easily measurable thermal electromagnetic drift (TED) occurs in copper wires the following configuration was tried: | | | | | | | | 0.5" radius x 5" long steel plumb bob | | with conical tip on 45 deg. slope | S | \ / oo\ /oo ooo\ /ooo oooo\/oooo oooooooooo <------- Coil of insulated wire, about 100 turns ---------- (Telephone cross connect wire) | N | | | | | | | | | 1x1x1.5" 35 MGO magnet | S | ---------- Coil resistance was 0.7 ohms. No voltage or current was detected. AN EXPERIMENT WITH SOME CLUES? An attempt was being made to measure a rotating magnetic field by using a FET, due to the gate's effect being due to potential: Rotating Flux (moving toward reader, out of page) . . S---------------------- . | =====G-+ FET probe . | . D----------------------- S - source D - drain G - gate == - active area of probe .. - flux line rotating toward reader, out of page A dual gate MOSFET, NTE455, was tried, with the two gates tied together to make a probe tip. It was a very sensitive probe. It picked up fluorescent bulb at about 2 feet, and was very good at sensing ambient noise. It went totally dead when a magnet was initially brought near it. As viewed on an oscilloscope the background noise was flat lined, the MOSFET had zero conductivity. When the magnet was removed the MOSFET conducted and showed ambient noise again. With a magnet near it, but not too close, the two were moved toward a fluorescent bulb and the MOSFET eventually picked up the signal, but the proximity of the magnet set a threshold for the distance it would start sensing. The MOSFET could make a gauss meter in an appropriate circuit. Since it is nearly impossible to have no gradient dB/dx or DB/dy, it is desirable to investigate this phenomenon a little further. The effect may be a Hall type effect, a TED type effect, or some other semiconductor related effect. CONCLUSION It seems it may be very worthwhile to test appropriate semiconducting material, in particular very pure Ge doped with P, but also others like Si doped with P, for the TED effect, using very accurate DC meters. It may also be useful to check GaAs and other semiconductors as well. Meters accurate to the uV might be built using circuits similar to those used in PH meters. (See the McGraw Hill Encyclopedia of Electronic Circuits for example.) One possible source of materials for a quick check are Hall effect devices. It is simply necessary to place the semiconductor in a magnetic field with an appropriate gradient as spelled out above, and measure any persistent current whatsoever. A very sensitive voltmeter or ammeter is required. It is of further interest to study EM radiation from semiconductors with free thermal electrons. Such electrons should radiate. If compartment B radiates in a manner that is channeled to and absorbed by compartment A, and there is a lack of symmetry, ie. the lack of magnetic field in compartment A prevents radiating energy back toward compartment B until a higher temperature is reached, allowing black body radiation to match, then the objective of demonstrating the incompatibility of the second law with one (or more) laws of electromagnetism is achieved. Also of further interest to study is the use of thermopiles (tall broad stack of thermocouple junctions) for compartment B in order to use the junctions as ratchets for the TED effect. This configuration is expected to be effective due to the low voltage generated across the junctions. The temperature gradient achieved from "compartment A waste heat" can then be used to assist in maintaining the favorable potential gradient. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 20:50:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA00772; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 20:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33826CCF.CAB1A4D1@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:02:31 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server Freenrg Subject: Re: Simple Ou Toy web sites X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qhz2m2.0.oB.CscWp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3146 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve Ekwall wrote: > > On Wed, 21 May 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > > Jean-Louis and Stefan have agreeded to host the "Simple OU Toy" > details. > > 1) They will publish the construction plans. Jean-Louis will clean > up > > my hand draw sketches. Thanks Jean-Louis. > > GREAT, WHAT ARE THEIR (2)WEB SITE ADDRESS' ?? > > > > > 2) They will build the devices from the plans. > > CAN'T WE PLAY TOO?? or do we have to wait for them to build these two > models.. before> 3) They will test the devices and publish the > results. > > > > 4) They will publish Jpeg's and Mpeg's of the working devices. > > LOOKING FORWARD TO THE PIC's > > steve Hi Steve, Sorry for the confusion. I will publish the construction plans via attachments to my posts to freenrg-l and vortex-l. The web sites will also have the details. Anyone can build the devices. Anyone can display the results on there web sites. I hope many do. The Jean-Louis and Stefan will build the devices and display the results to assist others. They both have still and video capabilities. Stefan Hartman's site is : http://www.overunity.de Jean-Louis's site is : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 20:49:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA04885 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:49:29 -0700 Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 20:49:29 -0700 X-Envelope-From: hheffner@corecom.net Tue May 20 20:48:09 1997 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA04507 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:48:05 -0700 Received: from home.corecom.net (root@[199.237.128.11]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA27184 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 19:18:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [199.237.131.246] (palmer26.corecom.net [199.237.131.246]) by home.corecom.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA12118 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 18:28:42 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Old-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 18:15:51 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Thermal Electromagnetic Drift (TED) - Part 1 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: THERMAL ELECTROMAGNETIC DRIFT (TED) - Horace Heffner 5/20/97 (PART 1) BACKGROUND AND OBJECTIVE The first and second laws of thermodynamics are assumptions, or at least based upon assumptions. It is possible that multiple assumed "laws" can be mutually inconsistent. In such a case, using logic or an example to produce a more evident inconsistency from the laws is useful in order to see or understand the inconsistency. The primary objective of this paper is to demonstrate an inconsistency between the second law of thermodynamics and the Lorentz force. The Lorentz force is a force exerted on a charged particle, like an electron, moving through an electromagnetic field. Given F, E, v, and B, vectors representing force, electrostatic field strength, velocity, and magnetic field strength, a particle of charge q0 experiences a force given by the Lorentz relation: F = (q0 E) + (q0 V) x B Here x means vector product. This implies, for example, that an electron in the absence of field E, and traveling left to right, perpendicular to a magnetic field B that is out of the page, will experience an upward force (see FIG. 1). This further implies that, if B is out of the page, electrons of a fixed speed will move in counter clockwise circles of fixed radius, ignoring any of their motion in the axis normal to the page. Positrons will move in exactly the same manner, except in a clockwise direction. The radius of such a circle is called the cyclotron radius. Such circular motion, including any additional motion due to a field E, is called here cyclotronic motion. B out of page toward reader ^ | force F | | velocity v (e-)----------> FIG. 1 - Lorentz force (E assumed zero) The circular motion that results has a characteristic frequency f, called the cyclotron frequency, that is independent of speed, because the cyclotron radius is proportional to speed. This frequency is given by: f = q B / (2 Pi m) where m is mass and Pi is 3.14159.... The first law of thermodynamics is the law of conservation of energy: "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed." The second law of thermodynamics is the law of entropy, and is stated in various ways, one of which is:"It is impossible for any cycling device to exchange heat with only a single reservoir and produce work." It is an objective here to define a physically realizable system which for all practical consideration is a closed, isolated system that (1) has no moving parts other than electrons, and no stored potential energy other than the thermal energy of the system and that of a permanent magnetic field, (2) has two compartments, A and B, (3) has a given starting condition that all parts have a uniform temperature of 270 degrees Kelvin, (4) spontaneously moves heat from compartment A to compartment B and (5) thus either does useful work during the transfer process (e.g. electrical) and/or makes it possible to use the temperature difference to do useful work while transferring or conducting the heat from compartment B back to compartment A. The looping of heat back to compartment A closes the energy loop and creates "perpetual motion". If a true physical embodiment of (1) through (4) can exist then the second law of thermodynamics is no longer a law; it then needs qualifications or restrictions in scope. It is maybe more accurate to say that such a system would actually fall totally outside the realm of thermodynamics as normally defined, in that it violates what is commonly called the "zeroth law of thermodynamics". This "law" is actually a definition upon which the second law is based, namely: "Two systems which are equal in temperature with a third are equal in temperature with each other." This definition is based on the idea that two systems are equal in temperature if no change in property occurs when they are in thermal contact. This is the characteristic that validates use of mercury thermometers, for example. If a thermometer does not change its physical properties when moved from one compartment to another, then the two compartments must have the same temperature. Inherently assumed in this concept is the notion that a closed isolated system at a uniform temperature can not self modify its own physical properties. If the temperature of such a compartment is verified to be the same as a thermometer by the lack of change of state of the thermometer, and the thermometer is moved to another similar compartment to compare temperatures, and the temperature is found equal, it can only be said the first and second compartments are the same temperature if it is known that the first compartment can not spontaneously change its temperature in the interim. Compartment A --------------- | | | | | Resistor R | Hot (>270 K) | | | | --------------- ^ | | | | | (e-) Heat (e-) | | | | | | | v v --------------- | | | | | <--- (e-) | Cool (<270 K) | | | | --------------- Compartment B FIG. 2 - Block Diagram of System in Equilibrium In the proposed system (see FIG. 2), compartment A contains a current generating mechanism except for the resistive current loop, and any device it may power, which is in compartment B. Electrical connection is made between the right side of compartment A to the right side of compartment B, and similarly on the left side. The compartments are thermally connected. Some of the heat of compartment A is converted to electrical energy which is transferred to compartment B, the resistive circuit, where it does useful work and thereby heats compartment B. Compartment A is spontaneously cooled while compartment B is heated, all with no active components. The waste heat from compartment B is allowed to flow back to A to maintain it's heat so it can continue to generate power. If a compartment A is defined which can perpetually maintain a potential difference and a corresponding current flow, however small, then the objectives have been achieved. THERMAL ELECTROMAGNETIC DRIFT In a uniform magnetic field coming out of the page, thermal positive ions (or holes) will tend to move in a clockwise circle, negative ions will tend to move in a counterclockwise circle. If the magnetic field is non-uniform, a gradient with the field B stronger at the bottom of the page than at the top, then drift occurs. Positive ions (or holes) will tend to drift to the right, negative ions to the left. The drift is caused by the fact that the cyclotron radius is smaller on average on the bottom portion of the loop. Thus positive particles move in long arcs to the right and short arcs to the left, for example. Electrons move in long arcs to the left and short arcs to the right. Assume that the x axis is left to right, the y axis bottom to top of page, and the z axis is increasing out of page toward the reader (see FIG. 3). That thermally energized drift occurs implies that in the proposed magnetic gradient, dB/dy, the energy from ambient heat can be used to form an electrostatic gradient, negative to the left and positive to the right. With a completed circuit, the configuration takes thermal energy from ions in the magnetic field gradient and converts it to current. If the thermally drifting ions have bounds to their motion to the left and right , then a field E should be formed in the X axis due to the accumulation of charged particles at the boundaries. In the proposed cell, the magnitude of B decreases linearly with an increase in y and is constant at all z, and x, for a given y. The direction cosines of B are constant at (0,0,1). For this reason it seems sufficient to use a two dimensional (2D) model to analyze the effect. In a uniform magnetic field coming out of the page, thermal positive ions will tend to rotate in a clockwise circle. If the field is stronger at the bottom of the page (decreasing B in y direction) the path, as viewed in the x,y plane of the paper, might look something like the path shown in FIG. 3. |<---------------- Td --------------->| -->o o--> o o o o B smaller o o o | o o | dB/dy o o | o V B larger FIG. 3 - Motion of positive particle in graduated B field. Electrons would tend to drift in the opposite or left-wise direction. It appears that any motion in the z axis would be irrelevant to these dynamics. Also, it seems that, if there is any resistance at the left or right boundaries, or if they are closed, as the top and bottom are assumed to be, then a right to left electrostatic gradient will form. An effect called ExB drift will then increase pressure toward the top of the cell, which will quickly reach equilibrium, due to the cell boundaries at top and bottom. It is assumed the top and bottom cell boundaries do not destroy or neutralize the charge, but do confine it within the cell. If resistance at the right and left boundaries is partial, then a net current, consisting of the combination of positive flow to right and negative flow to the left, should occur. In the proposed thermal electromagnetic drift, particles of different charge move in opposite directions. The apparent current moves in one direction. The x axis drifting effect due to repeated regular displacements Td at the cyclotronic frequency is called here thermal electromagnetic drift (TED). A device using the TED effect is called a TED device (or TEDD). Note that in practice Td would be very small in relation to the cyclotronic radius, but the drift not so small due to the fast cyclotron frequency. A REVERSE ENTROPY DEVICE It is proposed that a TED device can be achieved in an actual n-type lattice. Consider FIG. 4: B ~= 0.5 T out of page ----------------------- | | | | | | | n-type | | | lattice | | | | dB/dy = -0.1 T / cm | (-) (+) | | | | V | | ----------------------- Small E ------> <------ Hot electron TED direction Cool electron drift in E field ---> FIG. 4 The leftward TED induced by dB/dy creates a small negative charge to the left, leaving a small positive charge to the right. This creates an electrostatic field E across the lattice, but reaches an equilibrium, with hot electrons drifting to the left, due to TED, at the same rate as cool electrons drift to the right, due to E. However, this tendency for hot electrons to drift left and cool electrons to drift right should create a higher temperature to the left. To disprove the second law it is only necessary to show that a TEDD can generate whatsoever either any potential or any thermal gradient across a TED, no matter how small the effect. However, the fundamental question regarding practical use or even an experimental test is the question of whether TED cells can be put in series, or alternatively made long, in order to increase the total electrostatic potential achievable at a given temperature. The magnetic field does not add energy to the ions. The kinetic energy of the ions is there initially only in the form of heat. The magnetic field gradient only serves to organize things. Since 1 eV = 11,600 deg. K, at 270 K the average ion should have a kinetic energy of about 0.0233 eV. This means that a maximum cell potential is about 0.023 V if the full kinetic energy of the average ion is to be sapped before reaching the cell boundaries in the course of overcoming a reverse field gradient E (not likely!). This cell operating voltage of 0.0233 V establishes a minimum of 26 cells that must work in series at 270 K to produce a meaningful potential of about 0.6 V to do electrolysis, for example. In practice it should be a much larger number. Of interest is the fact that faster moving ions will have a large Td and thus drift faster than slow ones. This implies that a thermal gradient might be established. It should be coldest in the middle of the cell, warmest near the right and left boundaries in a cell with the magnetic gradient bottom to top as in our examples. However, in a cell with both positive and negative ions flowing, the thermal gradient tends to balance except at the cell boundaries. This implies that the ions can move toward the cell boundaries in small increments. That is to say the following stage-wise process would be repeated: (1) the drift causes motion against the field gradient and a loss of kinetic energy. (2) collisions with impurities or the lattice phonons cause, on average, a restoration of kinetic energy (3) the drift repeats. In other words, fast moving (hot) particles tend to drift in their own direction faster than slow (cold) ones tend to fall back. The above seems to imply that, provided the heat is continually replenished, say from the top side of the cell via a heat conduit from compartment B, that large electrostatic potentials, like 0.6 V, can be achieved by making the TED cells sufficiently long or by placing a sufficient number in series, provided there is a viable means of charge exchange at the right and left boundaries. It appears a good material for a test may be germanium doped with group V elements, like phosphorous or arsenic, an n-type germanium. A perfect germanium crystal is transparent to free electrons, but the electron acts as if it has mass m*, where m* ~= m/10. [see Hall, "Solid State Physics"] The problem is in achieving high enough purity to approximate "perfect". The dopants trap free electrons with a binding energy of about -0.01 eV, which is less than the average thermal kinetic energy of about 0.026 eV, so many of the impurity sites will be ionized, providing the free electrons. The ground state wave function for the dopant bound electrons has a radius of about 50 Angstroms, which accounts for the low energy binding. It is of interest that cyclotron resonance is used to determine m* experimentally. The electrons, of apparent mass m*, move in circular orbits at an angular frequency of f = (e)(B)/(m*), independent of their energy, and thus can absorb EM radiation at frequency f. At 1 tesla we get f to be approximately 10^12 s^-1. One of the problems in measuring cyclotron resonance, and a possible problem to drift detection, is getting the electrons to complete a few orbits on average before disruption by impurities or thermal vibrations. For this reason extremely pure material is used at liquid He temperatures to determine m*. For our purposes, which does not require resonance, it does not seem like these extreme measures are necessary. The loops would in effect be borken into many small increments, but the average effect should be the same. It is also of interest that holes can be used as well as electrons for determining m*, and that it is possible to use a mixture of n and p type dopants to achieve electron migration to the left and hole migration to the right when the B gradient is vertical as in our example (i.e. dB/dx = 0, dB/dy = -|ky|, dB/dz=0). Since there are no moving parts, and the proposed TEDD can do useful work in a system where heat is initially totally uniform, it appears to be a successful attack on the second law. The actual current generated may be so small as to require a SQUIB or Josephson junction type device to detect it, but the demonstration of the perpetual generating of a current while cooling a device below ambient would still be a very useful experiment from a theoretical standpoint. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 22:26:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA23158; Tue, 20 May 1997 22:17:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 22:17:43 -0700 Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 22:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705210517.WAA20197@ganymede.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Re: Status of Toy OU Device Resent-Message-ID: <"zYg_C2.0.Ff5.pLeWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3148 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --snip-- > >Maybe an eventual big quesion: can it be scaled up? > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner > I firmly believe that with an adequate understanding of what the magnetic fields are doing, it would have to be scalable. It may be a hundred pounds per horsepower and therefore not appropriate for driving a car but would still be able to run a house or at least reduce your heating bill. Scott Becker Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /**********************************************************/ /* has anyone ever proven to you that energy is conserved */ /**********************************************************/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 20 22:52:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA04639; Tue, 20 May 1997 22:50:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 22:50:51 -0700 Message-ID: <33828CDC.D67C0942@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:19:16 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg , List Server Vortex Subject: [Fwd: Simple Ou Toy web sites] X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1ECA84DF44C2E1210EB57B7E" Resent-Message-ID: <"vDN2K1.0.L81.tqeWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3149 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1ECA84DF44C2E1210EB57B7E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------1ECA84DF44C2E1210EB57B7E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <33828CA8.AD8F3841@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:18:24 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: William Beaty Subject: Re: Simple Ou Toy web sites X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William Beaty wrote: > > On Wed, 21 May 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > > > The "Simple OU Toy" CTLD is an attempt to prove what I have, without > > giving the farm away. > > Hi Greg! > > Something not totally clear: have you succeeded in getting the Hartman > patent to actually work in closed-loop mode? It SHOULD work, but if you > haven't actually succeeded, there is a chance that some weird little > difference will prevent operation of the "o/u toy". My Simple Magnetic Ou Toy is a modification of the Hartman patent (4,215,330) using multi curved ramps. You are correct, it does work! Building and adjusting the magnetic contours is tricky. The ramp designs I will present, make it easy to develop the skill necessary to master the adjustments. > Also: I don't think you've mentioned the total number of closed-loop > systems you've successfully made work. Are more than one of them up and > running, including non-patent versions? Yes there are, two similar but different systems. One based on the patent and one I am working on the patent for. The Simple Magnetic OU Toy (SMOT) is based on the old patent as I said but the Rotary Magnetic OU Device (RMOD) is not. I am currently building the second version of the RMOD in plexi-glass (See NO wires). > William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 Hi Bill, Sorry to be so confusing, but I really am not ready to disclose my rotary shaft device (RMOD) yet. I took the path of returning to the Hartman patent and working on it to develop a proof of mag ou device (SMOT) to settle the doubts without giving away my real device. I believe there are many variations possible (the Gary devices I believe will work as well). What I am attempting to do is to infuse in as many people as possible, the desire to stop talking and get their hands dirty building OU devices of ANY kind. To show that OU is possible, without a doubt! In closing I have build two classes of magnetic based closed loop devices which have no known power input other than that supplied by hard and soft ferromagnetic material : 1) SMOT (Simple Magnetic Ou Toy) which I will fully disclosed in 4 phases. 2) RMOD (Rotary Magnetic Ou Device) which will NOT be disclosed until the patent is in progress. --------------1ECA84DF44C2E1210EB57B7E-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 01:07:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA00774; Wed, 21 May 1997 00:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 00:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 22:34:00 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Simple Ou Toy web sites] Resent-Message-ID: <"43DKi1.0.-B.acgWp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3151 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 3:19 PM 5/21/97, Greg Watson wrote: [snip] > >My Simple Magnetic Ou Toy is a modification of the Hartman patent >(4,215,330) using multi curved ramps. You are correct, it does work! >Building and adjusting the magnetic contours is tricky. The ramp >designs I will present, make it easy to develop the skill necessary to >master the adjustments. > [snip] It seems like plastic or even glass tubing should be fairly easy to adjust. Is there some reason rails are necessary? Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 01:07:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA00664; Wed, 21 May 1997 00:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 00:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 22:57:55 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Peter Nielson's question on TED device Resent-Message-ID: <"FmstD1.0.GA.7cgWp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3150 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 6:16 PM 5/20/97, Horace Heffner wrote: >At 8:02 AM 5/21/97, mindtech@om.com.au wrote: > >> >>Can you provide a ref or more infor on the TED device? >> >>Peter Nielsen > > >This a concept that I cooked up recently. I have posted on vortex an idea >for an n-type Ge device that is expected to produce current in violation of >the second law. It was batted about there a bit, but mostly dismissed as >not feasible. > >I'll post today's version of the document here on freenrg in two parts. > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner Well, I sent the TED posts at the same time as the above, but they must be taking a while to grind through the server because they are big. Not beyond the limit though, I think. If they don't show up in a while I'll send them in three parts. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 04:52:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA04639; Tue, 20 May 1997 22:50:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 22:50:51 -0700 Message-ID: <33828CDC.D67C0942@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:19:16 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg , List Server Vortex Subject: [Fwd: Simple Ou Toy web sites] X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1ECA84DF44C2E1210EB57B7E" Resent-Message-ID: <"vDN2K1.0.L81.tqeWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3149 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1ECA84DF44C2E1210EB57B7E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------1ECA84DF44C2E1210EB57B7E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <33828CA8.AD8F3841@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:18:24 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: William Beaty Subject: Re: Simple Ou Toy web sites X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William Beaty wrote: > > On Wed, 21 May 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > > > The "Simple OU Toy" CTLD is an attempt to prove what I have, without > > giving the farm away. > > Hi Greg! > > Something not totally clear: have you succeeded in getting the Hartman > patent to actually work in closed-loop mode? It SHOULD work, but if you > haven't actually succeeded, there is a chance that some weird little > difference will prevent operation of the "o/u toy". My Simple Magnetic Ou Toy is a modification of the Hartman patent (4,215,330) using multi curved ramps. You are correct, it does work! Building and adjusting the magnetic contours is tricky. The ramp designs I will present, make it easy to develop the skill necessary to master the adjustments. > Also: I don't think you've mentioned the total number of closed-loop > systems you've successfully made work. Are more than one of them up and > running, including non-patent versions? Yes there are, two similar but different systems. One based on the patent and one I am working on the patent for. The Simple Magnetic OU Toy (SMOT) is based on the old patent as I said but the Rotary Magnetic OU Device (RMOD) is not. I am currently building the second version of the RMOD in plexi-glass (See NO wires). > William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 Hi Bill, Sorry to be so confusing, but I really am not ready to disclose my rotary shaft device (RMOD) yet. I took the path of returning to the Hartman patent and working on it to develop a proof of mag ou device (SMOT) to settle the doubts without giving away my real device. I believe there are many variations possible (the Gary devices I believe will work as well). What I am attempting to do is to infuse in as many people as possible, the desire to stop talking and get their hands dirty building OU devices of ANY kind. To show that OU is possible, without a doubt! In closing I have build two classes of magnetic based closed loop devices which have no known power input other than that supplied by hard and soft ferromagnetic material : 1) SMOT (Simple Magnetic Ou Toy) which I will fully disclosed in 4 phases. 2) RMOD (Rotary Magnetic Ou Device) which will NOT be disclosed until the patent is in progress. --------------1ECA84DF44C2E1210EB57B7E-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 09:30:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA04626; Wed, 21 May 1997 09:29:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 09:29:46 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:27:18 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: TED - Part 1 of 3 Resent-Message-ID: <"TndcT3.0.681.uBoWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3152 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: THERMAL ELECTROMAGNETIC DRIFT (TED) - Horace Heffner 5/20/97 BACKGROUND AND OBJECTIVE The first and second laws of thermodynamics are assumptions, or at least based upon assumptions. It is possible that multiple assumed "laws" can be mutually inconsistent. In such a case, using logic or an example to produce a more evident inconsistency from the laws is useful in order to see or understand the inconsistency. The primary objective of this paper is to demonstrate an inconsistency between the second law of thermodynamics and the Lorentz force. The Lorentz force is a force exerted on a charged particle, like an electron, moving through an electromagnetic field. Given F, E, v, and B, vectors representing force, electrostatic field strength, velocity, and magnetic field strength, a particle of charge q0 experiences a force given by the Lorentz relation: F = (q0 E) + (q0 V) x B Here x means vector product. This implies, for example, that an electron in the absence of field E, and traveling left to right, perpendicular to a magnetic field B that is out of the page, will experience an upward force (see FIG. 1). This further implies that, if B is out of the page, electrons of a fixed speed will move in counter clockwise circles of fixed radius, ignoring any of their motion in the axis normal to the page. Positrons will move in exactly the same manner, except in a clockwise direction. The radius of such a circle is called the cyclotron radius. Such circular motion, including any additional motion due to a field E, is called here cyclotronic motion. B out of page toward reader ^ | force F | | velocity v (e-)----------> FIG. 1 - Lorentz force (E assumed zero) The circular motion that results has a characteristic frequency f, called the cyclotron frequency, that is independent of speed, because the cyclotron radius is proportional to speed. This frequency is given by: f = q B / (2 Pi m) where m is mass and Pi is 3.14159.... The first law of thermodynamics is the law of conservation of energy: "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed." The second law of thermodynamics is the law of entropy, and is stated in various ways, one of which is:"It is impossible for any cycling device to exchange heat with only a single reservoir and produce work." It is an objective here to define a physically realizable system which for all practical consideration is a closed, isolated system that (1) has no moving parts other than electrons, and no stored potential energy other than the thermal energy of the system and that of a permanent magnetic field, (2) has two compartments, A and B, (3) has a given starting condition that all parts have a uniform temperature of 270 degrees Kelvin, (4) spontaneously moves heat from compartment A to compartment B and (5) thus either does useful work during the transfer process (e.g. electrical) and/or makes it possible to use the temperature difference to do useful work while transferring or conducting the heat from compartment B back to compartment A. The looping of heat back to compartment A closes the energy loop and creates "perpetual motion". If a true physical embodiment of (1) through (4) can exist then the second law of thermodynamics is no longer a law; it then needs qualifications or restrictions in scope. It is maybe more accurate to say that such a system would actually fall totally outside the realm of thermodynamics as normally defined, in that it violates what is commonly called the "zeroth law of thermodynamics". This "law" is actually a definition upon which the second law is based, namely: "Two systems which are equal in temperature with a third are equal in temperature with each other." This definition is based on the idea that two systems are equal in temperature if no change in property occurs when they are in thermal contact. This is the characteristic that validates use of mercury thermometers, for example. If a thermometer does not change its physical properties when moved from one compartment to another, then the two compartments must have the same temperature. Inherently assumed in this concept is the notion that a closed isolated system at a uniform temperature can not self modify its own physical properties. If the temperature of such a compartment is verified to be the same as a thermometer by the lack of change of state of the thermometer, and the thermometer is moved to another similar compartment to compare temperatures, and the temperature is found equal, it can only be said the first and second compartments are the same temperature if it is known that the first compartment can not spontaneously change its temperature in the interim. Compartment A --------------- | | | | | Resistor R | Hot (>270 K) | | | | --------------- ^ | | | | | (e-) Heat (e-) | | | | | | | v v --------------- | | | | | <--- (e-) | Cool (<270 K) | | | | --------------- Compartment B FIG. 2 - Block Diagram of System in Equilibrium In the proposed system (see FIG. 2), compartment A contains a current generating mechanism except for the resistive current loop, and any device it may power, which is in compartment B. Electrical connection is made between the right side of compartment A to the right side of compartment B, and similarly on the left side. The compartments are thermally connected. Some of the heat of compartment A is converted to electrical energy which is transferred to compartment B, the resistive circuit, where it does useful work and thereby heats compartment B. Compartment A is spontaneously cooled while compartment B is heated, all with no active components. The waste heat from compartment B is allowed to flow back to A to maintain it's heat so it can continue to generate power. If a compartment A is defined which can perpetually maintain a potential difference and a corresponding current flow, however small, then the objectives have been achieved. THERMAL ELECTROMAGNETIC DRIFT In a uniform magnetic field coming out of the page, thermal positive ions (or holes) will tend to move in a clockwise circle, negative ions will tend to move in a counterclockwise circle. If the magnetic field is non-uniform, a gradient with the field B stronger at the bottom of the page than at the top, then drift occurs. Positive ions (or holes) will tend to drift to the right, negative ions to the left. The drift is caused by the fact that the cyclotron radius is smaller on average on the bottom portion of the loop. Thus positive particles move in long arcs to the right and short arcs to the left, for example. Electrons move in long arcs to the left and short arcs to the right. Assume that the x axis is left to right, the y axis bottom to top of page, and the z axis is increasing out of page toward the reader (see FIG. 3). That thermally energized drift occurs implies that in the proposed magnetic gradient, dB/dy, the energy from ambient heat can be used to form an electrostatic gradient, negative to the left and positive to the right. With a completed circuit, the configuration takes thermal energy from ions in the magnetic field gradient and converts it to current. If the thermally drifting ions have bounds to their motion to the left and right , then a field E should be formed in the X axis due to the accumulation of charged particles at the boundaries. In the proposed cell, the magnitude of B decreases linearly with an increase in y and is constant at all z, and x, for a given y. The direction cosines of B are constant at (0,0,1). For this reason it seems sufficient to use a two dimensional (2D) model to analyze the effect. In a uniform magnetic field coming out of the page, thermal positive ions will tend to rotate in a clockwise circle. If the field is stronger at the bottom of the page (decreasing B in y direction) the path, as viewed in the x,y plane of the paper, might look something like the path shown in FIG. 3. |----------------- Td --------------->| -->o o--> o o o o B smaller o o o | o o | dB/dy o o | o V B larger FIG. 3 - Motion of positive particle in graduated B field. Electrons would tend to drift in the opposite or left-wise direction. It appears that any motion in the z axis would be irrelevant to these dynamics. Also, it seems that, if there is any resistance at the left or right boundaries, or if they are closed, as the top and bottom are assumed to be, then a right to left electrostatic gradient will form. An effect called ExB drift will then increase pressure toward the top of the cell, which will quickly reach equilibrium, due to the cell boundaries at top and bottom. It is assumed the top and bottom cell boundaries do not destroy or neutralize the charge, but do confine it within the cell. If resistance at the right and left boundaries is partial, then a net current, consisting of the combination of positive flow to right and negative flow to the left, should occur. In the proposed thermal electromagnetic drift, particles of different charge move in opposite directions. The apparent current moves in one direction. The x axis drifting effect due to repeated regular displacements Td at the cyclotronic frequency is called here thermal electromagnetic drift (TED). A device using the TED effect is called a TED device (or TEDD). Note that in practice Td would be very small in relation to the cyclotronic radius, but the drift not so small due to the fast cyclotron frequency. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 09:30:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA04751; Wed, 21 May 1997 09:30:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 09:30:06 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:27:34 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: TED - Part 3 of 3 Resent-Message-ID: <"-wdoe.0.5A1.DCoWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3154 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: DESIGNS FOR SCALING UP ELECTRIC CURRENT GENERATION FIG. 5 is a drawing of a side view cross section, z axis top to bottom, of a device using two magnets, M1 and M2, where chamber X meets the above description from the viewer's perspective (he is at the bottom looking up,) and chamber Y reverses those flows, etc. -------------------- "Top | N M1 S | of -------------------- "Bottom of page" page" --------- --------- | X | | Y | Electrons flow out of page in X --------- --------- and into page in Y -------------------- | S M2 N | -------------------- 8^) <--------- Viewer FIG. 5 Note that the B field can be further shaped to control dB/dy by contouring the magnets or by ferrous material insertion. There is no limit to the length of the x axis in the configuration shown in FIG. 5. Looking at FIG. 6, X might be a cross section of two sides of a TEDD shaped like a ring. -------------------- -------------------- | N M1 S | | S M1 N | -------------------- -------------------- --------- --------- | X | | X | --------- --------- -------------------- -------------------- | S M2 N | | N M2 S | -------------------- -------------------- FIG. 6 The chamber could be placed to the outside of the ring, as with Y in FIG. 7, or some combination of the two. -------------------- -------------------- | N M1 S | | S M1 N | -------------------- -------------------- --------- --------- | Y | | Y | --------- --------- -------------------- -------------------- | S M2 N | | N M2 S | -------------------- -------------------- FIG. 7 A device might be formed into a coil, as shown in FIG. 8. -------------------- | N M1 S | -------------------- --------- --------- | X | | Y | --------- --------- -------------------- | S M2 N | -------------------- --------- --------- | Q | | R | --------- --------- -------------------- | N M1 S | -------------------- --------- --------- | X | | Y | --------- --------- -------------------- | S M2 N | -------------------- --------- --------- | Q | | R | --------- --------- ... etc. FIG. 8 A TEDD can be built by cutting or etching a chip into a spiral configuration where the magnetic field diminishes radially, as in FIG. 9. Multiple chips can be stacked in three dimensions, the outer end of the spiral of one level attached to the inner end of the next level. | S | \ / \ / \ / \/ ========== <------- Spiral chip layers ---------- | N | | | FIG. 9 Note that the primary objective of the TEDDs in Figures 5 through 9 is electric current generation and not heat. In this case lateral heat flow between opposite conducting chambers X and Y is good, as it helps maintain the thermal energy of the TED. This can be used to advantage to form layered chip technology, as in FIG 10, can be made using ferrous prisms, designated M in FIG 10, between semiconductor layers to shape the magnetic field to achieve the gradient dB/dy. Electrons flow into page in chambers X and out of page in chambers (semiconductors) Y. Each layer can thus be made from a single chip where the x' and Y's are all one continuous piece of semiconductor cut or etched into folds that serpentine back and forth across the chip, and separated by supporting and insulating material. The substrate, if any, would have to be non-conductive. | | | S | ------------------------- M M M M M M M M M XY XY XY XY XY XY XY XY M M M M M M M M M XY XY XY XY XY XY XY XY M M M M M M M M M XY XY XY XY XY XY XY XY M M M M M M M M M XY XY XY XY XY XY XY XY M M M M M M M M M ------------------------- | N | | | FIG. 10 A PRELIMINARY TEST OF N-TYPE SILICON A solar cell was obtained that was made up of many pieces of probably surplus silicon chip fragment tiled together in a protective plastic box with dimensions about 45x75x5 mm. Some of the tiles had only parallel conductive strips deposited on their surfaces. They were affixed to a metal foil on the bottom and had strips of foil laid over their tops to collect the current. A 5x12 mm trapezoidal chip fragment was removed that had only 3 parallel metal strips on the top. The parallel metal strips were about 2.5 mm apart and ran diagonally across the chip. The chip had a lacework of metal grid lines deposited on its back side. The potential front to back under a fluorescent light was 23 mV. Two pieces of No.40 copper wire were soldered to the outer most metal strips on the top of the chip. The leads were then soldered back onto the original lugs in the protective plastic package from which the much larger composite cell had been removed . Resistance was 26.7 ohms in the dark. Holding it up to the light made the resistance drop to under 25 ohms. The light exposed side of the chip was negative, indicating an n-type silicon surface layer. The DMM was then set to a 200 mV range. A 35 MGo magnet was then moved about the chip. There was no sign of voltage. There was no response on the micro-amp scale either. When set to measure resistance, however, the motion of the magnet was clearly sensed by the meter, i.e. the change in sensed current due to moving flux, but there was no sustained change in resistance measured when no element was in motion. A much more sensitive meter is needed. A PRELIMINARY CHECK ON COPPER FOR A TED EFFECT In an attempt to determine if easily measurable thermal electromagnetic drift (TED) occurs in copper wires the following configuration was tried: | | | | | | | | 0.5" radius x 5" long steel plumb bob | | with conical tip on 45 deg. slope | S | \ / oo\ /oo ooo\ /ooo oooo\/oooo oooooooooo <------- Coil of insulated wire, about 100 turns ---------- (Telephone cross connect wire) | N | | | | | | | | | 1x1x1.5" 35 MGO magnet | S | ---------- Coil resistance was 0.7 ohms. No voltage or current was detected. AN EXPERIMENT WITH SOME CLUES? An attempt was being made to measure a rotating magnetic field by using a FET, due to the gate's effect being due to potential: Rotating Flux (moving toward reader, out of page) . . S---------------------- . | =====G-+ FET probe . | . D----------------------- S - source D - drain G - gate == - active area of probe .. - flux line rotating toward reader, out of page A dual gate MOSFET, NTE455, was tried, with the two gates tied together to make a probe tip. It was a very sensitive probe. It picked up fluorescent bulb at about 2 feet, and was very good at sensing ambient noise. It went totally dead when a magnet was initially brought near it. As viewed on an oscilloscope the background noise was flat lined, the MOSFET had zero conductivity. When the magnet was removed the MOSFET conducted and showed ambient noise again. With a magnet near it, but not too close, the two were moved toward a fluorescent bulb and the MOSFET eventually picked up the signal, but the proximity of the magnet set a threshold for the distance it would start sensing. The MOSFET could make a gauss meter in an appropriate circuit. Since it is nearly impossible to have no gradient dB/dx or DB/dy, it is desirable to investigate this phenomenon a little further. The effect may be a Hall type effect, a TED type effect, or some other semiconductor related effect. CONCLUSION It seems it may be very worthwhile to test appropriate semiconducting material, in particular very pure Ge doped with P, but also others like Si doped with P, for the TED effect, using very accurate DC meters. It may also be useful to check GaAs and other semiconductors as well. Meters accurate to the uV might be built using circuits similar to those used in PH meters. (See the McGraw Hill Encyclopedia of Electronic Circuits for example.) One possible source of materials for a quick check are Hall effect devices. It is simply necessary to place the semiconductor in a magnetic field with an appropriate gradient as spelled out above, and measure any persistent current whatsoever. A very sensitive voltmeter or ammeter is required. It is of further interest to study EM radiation from semiconductors with free thermal electrons. Such electrons should radiate. If compartment B radiates in a manner that is channeled to and absorbed by compartment A, and there is a lack of symmetry, ie. the lack of magnetic field in compartment A prevents radiating energy back toward compartment B until a higher temperature is reached, allowing black body radiation to match, then the objective of demonstrating the incompatibility of the second law with one (or more) laws of electromagnetism is achieved. Also of further interest to study is the use of thermopiles (tall broad stack of thermocouple junctions) for compartment B in order to use the junctions as ratchets for the TED effect. This configuration is expected to be effective due to the low voltage generated across the junctions. The temperature gradient achieved from "compartment A waste heat" can then be used to assist in maintaining the favorable potential gradient. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 09:30:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA04706; Wed, 21 May 1997 09:30:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 09:30:03 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:27:26 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: TED - Part 2 of 3 Resent-Message-ID: <"T2JjV3.0.R91.8CoWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3153 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A REVERSE ENTROPY DEVICE It is proposed that a TED device can be achieved in an actual n-type lattice. Consider FIG. 4: B ~= 0.5 T out of page ----------------------- | | | | | | | n-type | | | lattice | | | | dB/dy = -0.1 T / cm | (-) (+) | | | | V | | ----------------------- Small E ------> <------ Hot electron TED direction Cool electron drift in E field ---> FIG. 4 The leftward TED induced by dB/dy creates a small negative charge to the left, leaving a small positive charge to the right. This creates an electrostatic field E across the lattice, but reaches an equilibrium, with hot electrons drifting to the left, due to TED, at the same rate as cool electrons drift to the right, due to E. However, this tendency for hot electrons to drift left and cool electrons to drift right should create a higher temperature to the left. To disprove the second law it is only necessary to show that a TEDD can generate whatsoever either any potential or any thermal gradient across a TED, no matter how small the effect. However, the fundamental question regarding practical use or even an experimental test is the question of whether TED cells can be put in series, or alternatively made long, in order to increase the total electrostatic potential achievable at a given temperature. The magnetic field does not add energy to the ions. The kinetic energy of the ions is there initially only in the form of heat. The magnetic field gradient only serves to organize things. Since 1 eV = 11,600 deg. K, at 270 K the average ion should have a kinetic energy of about 0.0233 eV. This means that a maximum cell potential is about 0.023 V if the full kinetic energy of the average ion is to be sapped before reaching the cell boundaries in the course of overcoming a reverse field gradient E (not likely!). This cell operating voltage of 0.0233 V establishes a minimum of 26 cells that must work in series at 270 K to produce a meaningful potential of about 0.6 V to do electrolysis, for example. In practice it should be a much larger number. Of interest is the fact that faster moving ions will have a large Td and thus drift faster than slow ones. This implies that a thermal gradient might be established. It should be coldest in the middle of the cell, warmest near the right and left boundaries in a cell with the magnetic gradient bottom to top as in our examples. However, in a cell with both positive and negative ions flowing, the thermal gradient tends to balance except at the cell boundaries. This implies that the ions can move toward the cell boundaries in small increments. That is to say the following stage-wise process would be repeated: (1) the drift causes motion against the field gradient and a loss of kinetic energy. (2) collisions with impurities or the lattice phonons cause, on average, a restoration of kinetic energy (3) the drift repeats. In other words, fast moving (hot) particles tend to drift in their own direction faster than slow (cold) ones tend to fall back. The above seems to imply that, provided the heat is continually replenished, say from the top side of the cell via a heat conduit from compartment B, that large electrostatic potentials, like 0.6 V, can be achieved by making the TED cells sufficiently long or by placing a sufficient number in series, provided there is a viable means of charge exchange at the right and left boundaries. It appears a good material for a test may be germanium doped with group V elements, like phosphorous or arsenic, an n-type germanium. A perfect germanium crystal is transparent to free electrons, but the electron acts as if it has mass m*, where m* ~= m/10. [see Hall, "Solid State Physics"] The problem is in achieving high enough purity to approximate "perfect". The dopants trap free electrons with a binding energy of about -0.01 eV, which is less than the average thermal kinetic energy of about 0.026 eV, so many of the impurity sites will be ionized, providing the free electrons. The ground state wave function for the dopant bound electrons has a radius of about 50 Angstroms, which accounts for the low energy binding. It is of interest that cyclotron resonance is used to determine m* experimentally. The electrons, of apparent mass m*, move in circular orbits at an angular frequency of f = (e)(B)/(m*), independent of their energy, and thus can absorb EM radiation at frequency f. At 1 tesla we get f to be approximately 10^12 s^-1. One of the problems in measuring cyclotron resonance, and a possible problem to drift detection, is getting the electrons to complete a few orbits on average before disruption by impurities or thermal vibrations. For this reason extremely pure material is used at liquid He temperatures to determine m*. For our purposes, which does not require resonance, it does not seem like these extreme measures are necessary. The loops would in effect be borken into many small increments, but the average effect should be the same. It is also of interest that holes can be used as well as electrons for determining m*, and that it is possible to use a mixture of n and p type dopants to achieve electron migration to the left and hole migration to the right when the B gradient is vertical as in our example (i.e. dB/dx = 0, dB/dy = -|ky|, dB/dz=0). Since there are no moving parts, and the proposed TEDD can do useful work in a system where heat is initially totally uniform, it appears to be a successful attack on the second law. The actual current generated may be so small as to require a SQUIB or Josephson junction type device to detect it, but the demonstration of the perpetual generating of a current while cooling a device below ambient would still be a very useful experiment from a theoretical standpoint. A RATCHET MECHANISM The field E generated by charge accumulation at x axis ends of the cell is backwards, i.e. contrary to the current flow. The negative side is the left side towards which electrons migrate. It is the E that thwarts the migration. Keeping up the current flow is a matter of keeping the resistance of the loop low to avoid much of an E. E and the ion speeds, and diversion due to collisions, are the primary things that limit the current flow. Despite drift speed limitations, the right-left drift should be finite and continue indefinitely. The electrons should leave the left side of the compartment "hot", i.e. under pressure and with relatively high average speed. Their energy is spent in the resistive loop, heating it, and they return on the right side cool. This is ignoring electrode work functions, etc. However, there is some hope that if the idea is sound then an experiment could be successful because the right to left electrostatic gradient is additive. Therefore, many such cells or an arbitrarily long cell can be strung together to achieve any desired potential. The key to success then is simply obtaining a medium that maintains a supply of ions, electrons or holes, capable of cyclotronic drift at ambient temperatures. The proposed semiconductor medium should fulfill that role nicely. As mentioned earlier, the dopant (e.g. P) atoms tend to trap electrons with a binding energy of about -0.01 eV, which is less than the average thermal kinetic energy of about 0.023 eV for a 270 deg. kelvin operating environment for the germanium crystal lattice. Given no resistance, and thus no potential barrier, significant and measurable currents might be detected from a TEDD cell at an operating B of about 0.5 T and dB/dy of about 0.1 T and dopant density of about 10^22 atoms/m^2. Resistance in the crystal lattice is mostly in the form of heat due to collisions with lattice atoms, and interactions with dopants and impurities. However, in the face of a building reverse electrostatic field barrier built due to resistance to electron flow, the electron interaction with the dopant might provide a ratchet mechanism to permit the gradual overcoming of a potential barrier. As an electron drifts against a potential field, it loses kinetic energy, meaning it cools. This makes the cool electron susceptible to recapture by a dopant atom, especially after the electron cools to below the 0.01 eV binding energy with the dopant. Once captured, the electron is hung on a notch of the ratchet mechanism. It will not get out, nor move backwards, until it has absorbed sufficient thermal energy from the dopant atom and surrounding lattice, etc., to overcome the -0.01 eV well. When it does get out, it then again drifts forward until captured again. If the electron should sufficiently slow, due to Brownian motion, or motion mostly in the z axis, etc., it can drift backwards in a direction with the E field. However, it then should pick up kinetic energy in the xy plane from that backward movement with the E field, and then tend to be much more likely to drift to the left, and to drift left at an increasingly higher rate. The ratchet mechanism should be very fine toothed, in that even in the purest crystals and lowest operating temperatures only a few orbits an be achieved on average. The ratchet tooth height of about 1/2 the average kinetic energy seems about ideal. The ratchet mechanism greatly reduces the current due to the time delay required for the electrons to pick up the required thermal energy while pinned to the dopant atoms. However, it does permit movement of the drift current against a potential barrier, and thus permits useful work to be done at the expense of cooling the crystal lattice. CURRENT CALCULATION WITH R AND E ASSUMED TO BE ZERO Let's assume we can achieve operation in an average of a 0.5 T field with a dB/dy magnetic field gradient of -0.1 T/cm, and a drift electron density of Nd = 10^22/m^3. Assume M* to be about Me/10 = 0.91 10^-31 kg. Elementary charge e = 1.6x10^-19 C. We get the angular frequency Wc = (e)(B)/m* = (1.6x10^-19 C)(0.5 T)/(0.91 10^-31 kg) = 1.76x10^12 rad s^-1, or a frequency: f = 1.4x10^11 sec^-1. Assume average thermal energy 270 deg. kelvin. At 11,600 deg. K/eV that's 0.023 eV. At 1.6x10^-19 J/eV we have an average free electron energy of 3.7x10^-21 J. Assuming we can apply E = 0.5(M*)(Vxyz^2), we have: 3.7x10^-21 k*m^2/s^2 = 0.5(0.91 10^-31 kg)(Vxyz^2) Vxyz = 2.85x10^5 m/s However, 2/3 of v should be in the xy plane and 1/3 in the z plane on average, so we get an xy plane velocity of: Vxy = v = 1.9x10^5 m/s Given a time of 1/f = 1/(1.4x10^11 sec^-1) = 7.14x10^-12 sec, this give an orbital circumference of v/f = (1.9x10^5 m/s)(7.14x10^-12 sec) = 1.36x10^-6 m. This gives an orbital diameter of: Do = 4.33x10^-7 m Given that dB/dy = -0.1 T/cm = -10 T/m, we have delta B = (-10 T/m)(4.33x10^-7 m) = -4.33x10^-6 T across the range of the loop. This means the bottom radius averages roughly about (0.5)(4.33x10^-6 T)/(0.5 T) = 4.33x10^-6 times the top radius in the loop, giving a Td on the x axis of: Td = (4.33x10^-6)(4.33x10^-7 m) = 1.86x10^-12 m. Note that the factor 0.5 is used in order to average the B across the top loop, and to similarly average B over the bottom loop. Given a repetition rate of f = 1.4x10^11 sec^-1 we have a drift rate: Vd = (Td)(f) = (1.86x10^-12 m)(1.4x10^11 sec^-1) = 1.6 m/s. Using Nd = 10^22 m^-3 we get a current density: J = (Vd)(Nd)/(6x10^18 electrons/s/ampere) = (1.6 m/s)(10^22 m^-3)/(6x10^18 electrons/s/ampere) = 2660 amperes/m^2. Assuming a conductor of 10^-3 m on a side, or 10^-6 m^2 cross section, we should get a current of 2.66 mA, assuming no resistance. Checking orbital radius with formula: Ro = (m*)(v)/((q)(B)) = (0.91 10^-31 kg)(1.9x10^5 m/s)/((1.6x10^-19 C)(0.5 T)) Ro = 2.16x10^-7 m Ro = Do/2 = (4.33x10^-7 m)/2 = 2.165x10^-7 check Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 10:52:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA03965; Wed, 21 May 1997 10:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 10:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:30:57 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Prototype Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RSgAs1.0.mz.aCpWp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3155 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: First off, I'd like to apologise about being slightly off topic, but I'd like to refer those who are interested in my time travel project to my website, http://members.tripod.com/~jtooker/index-2.html . I'm going to be unveiling a prototype of my time machine at Con-Version XIV sf convention. Please refer to the site for more details. Many thanx to everyone else for their patience! :) It's appreciated! John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 11:30:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA14713; Wed, 21 May 1997 11:29:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:29:49 -0700 From: tim.vaughan@trex.ccc-infonet.edu (Tim Vaughan) Subject: Good Magnet Source Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 18:29:27 GMT Message-Id: <864239367@trex.ccc-infonet.edu> Organization: Yosemite Community College District To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"COZvp1.0.kb3.RypWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3156 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Using the online Thomas Register < http://noframes.thomasregister.com > , I found what looks like a handy supplier of all kinds of permanent magnets. Checkout < www.magnetsales.com >. They have a great online that catalog that is is easy to use. They may be cheaper than Edmond Scientific for large numbers of magnets. Tim ( tv@juno.com ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 13:29:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA13844; Wed, 21 May 1997 13:26:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:26:35 -0700 Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:26:15 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Comments from Weird Science (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Resent-Message-ID: <"GNnT01.0.9O3.ufrWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3157 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: see below =2E....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,...........................= =2E. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 07:20:29 -0700 From: Arlen To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Comments from Weird Science --- category --- ok --- comments --- \TROMBLY\ MAY 16, 1997 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, GLOBAL PEACE PROJECT,addre= ssing OUR GLOBAL ENVIRONMENTAL EMERGENCY, PROBLEMS AND SOLUTIONSContact: D= avid Crockett Williams, Santa Barbara Coordinator, 805-961-2701Addressing O= ur Global Environmental Emergency which threatens all Life on Earth, Adam T= rombly is giving his first radio interview in three years on this Sunday, M= ay 18th, from 9PM to midnight, locally on KTMS and nationally via Jeff Rens= e's syndicated radio show which can be accessed with sound card by internet= at his web page . Trombly is a physicist and climat= ologist at The Institute for Advanced Studies in Aspen, Colorado, which he = founded with Buckminster Fuller. Adam Trombly is an internationally acknow= ledged expert in the fields of Physics, Atmospheric Dynamics, Geophysics, R= otating and Resonating Electromagnetic Systems, and Environmental Global Mo= deling. Taking the advice of his friend and mentor, R. Buckminster Fuller,= Adam has maintained a "synergistic, global view" within a multi-disciplina= ry scientific background. From this perspective Adam offers unique insight= s into the changes humankind has affected on our environment, and the adjus= tments our future requires of us now.With other physicists at NASA, by the = late 1970's, Trombly became aware of what is now known as the zero-point en= ergy field from anomalous planetary energy measurements. While then consid= ering the potential of tapping this energy field, inherent in three dimensi= onal space itself, with a new alternative zero-point energy technology, he = became aware of the "n-Machine" experiments done in Santa Barbara by Bruce = DePalma in 1979. Recognizing that this was a zero-point device, he applied = himself to the principle and shortly developed an improved configuration ca= lled the "closed path homopolar generator" and disclosed full details in an= international patent which has inspired subsequent proof-of-concept around= the world. Trombly's name, along with Bruce DePalma, Edgar Mitchell, and = George Ainsworth-Land, appeared in a July 1981 Satellite News article predi= cting use of this generator in satellites. In 1985, Dr. Yonas, the Chief S= cientist for the Strategic Defense Initiative, testified in US Congressiona= l budget hearings that this technology (the "homopolar" generator as Michae= l Faraday called it in 1831) was a "critical technology" for the Strategic = Defense Initiative ("Star Wars" weapons). In subsequent years evidence ind= icates that this technology is in place in orbiting "rail gun" military sat= ellites. Trombly for some time was under a Federal Court gag order not to = talk about this technology after he found it under covert development for U= S submarine propulsion. Risking and surviving assasination attempts to shu= t him up, Adam has courageously decided (after several years hermetic lifes= tyle) to come once again to the forefront of public presentation of informa= tion regarding the seriousness of our global environmental crisis and how t= his new technology can help save our planet.We are calling for the immediat= e establishment of a GLOBAL ENVIRONMENTAL EMERGENCY RESPONSE PLAN AND TEAM = to implement solutions to this crisis. Adam has adjusted his schedule to co= me to Santa Barbara to take part in our June 1 briefing for the science adv= isor to His Holiness Dalai Lama, and has been invited to be one of the key = participants in the Public Briefing on these matters June 2, 7PM, at UCSB C= hem 1179, along with Brian O'Leary, former science & energy policy advisor = to four US Presidential candidates and author of a book about these zero-po= int "free energy technologies" called "Miracle in The Void", and with inves= tigative journalist Jeane Manning, author of "The Coming Energy Revolution"= =2EFor more details check out websites for Trombly at , Bruce DePalma at , & O'Leary The United States, through a 1952 Secrecy Order obtained under the Freedo= m of Information Act, has been suppressing the public development of this c= ritical technology in the US. However, Japan is putting millions of dollar= s into its development and negotiations are now under way, if the US policy= doesn't change, to build a $2.5 billion manufacturing plant in Germany to = produce a state-of-the-art home unit to allow individual homes to disconnec= t from utility power grids. Larger devices are also possible such as ones = to replace the electricity output of the three coal-fired electric power pl= ants in the Four Corners area which reportedly produce more acid rain pollu= tions than the top five US cities combined, and whose coal strip-mining is = the root of the genocidal US policy of the continuing forced removal of the= native American people on Arizona'a Black Mesa where Big Mountain is locat= ed. --RAA29329.864000851/coyote.rain.org--=20 --- money --- yes donate 5.00 --- money2 --- $10.00 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 14:26:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA28141; Wed, 21 May 1997 14:25:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:25:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3382954E.BFADBF4C@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:55:18 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server Freenrg Subject: Re: Greg...critical question! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RRsn33.0.Tt6.DXsWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3159 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Logajan wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > Sort of like a circular "Tomi" device. Up and down, round and round. > > Not too elegant, but it works. Don't get hung up on the way a "Tomi" > > works (or doesn't work), this is different. > > Speaking of the Tomi, the ANE Newsletter that was bundled with the most > recent IE magazine has a front page analysis of the Tomi -- these Academy > for New Energy guys (ANE) couldn't get the thing to work. > > - John Logajan -- jlogajan@skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - Hi John, I, like many others spend quite a lot of time on the "Tomi" device. I couldn't get it to work either. But I didn't give up there and I spent several more days (weeks) doing intensive simulation of the Tomi device on QField. I stopped when I could demonstrate to me and anyone else why it couldn't work. Every failure is a golden opportunity to learn. Failures should not just be chucked into the nearest rubbish bin and forgotten. Investigate, learn, and listen to what mother nature is teaching, then think outside the square. And never give up until you KNOW why it doesn't work and why you got it wrong! Experience, the best teacher From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 14:28:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA28907; Wed, 21 May 1997 14:27:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:27:30 -0700 X-Sender: harti@shell2.ba.best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: How many hours ? Date: Wed, 21 May 97 23:24:11 +0200 Message-Id: <97052123241108@odin> Resent-Message-ID: <"H-5u51.0.Z37.0ZsWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3160 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, just curious: How many hours did your device already run continiously now ? Maybe you can post an update on this ? Good luck for building the new toy thing... Regards, STefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: www.detours.de www.overunity.de www.berlin-city.com email: harti@harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 14:31:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA27997; Wed, 21 May 1997 14:25:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:25:06 -0700 Message-ID: <33829283.9B02DFDC@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:43:23 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server Freenrg Subject: Re: Greg...critical question! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199705210448.XAA06754@natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LCFCC3.0.Er6.nWsWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3158 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > At 01:25 PM 5/21/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: > > >Yes. Well not run but roll by itself. > > Maybe I'm being hard-headed here, Greg, but that statement is not clear and > seems a bit ambiguous. > > Just for the record could you please answer yes/no to the following: > > Does the simple O-U toy built from your own plans work in such as manner as > to create motion that continues unabated for many hours once started? > > Thanks. Hi Scott, In a simple single word answer (for the record) ....... YES! It rolls and rolls, around and around, up and down until you stop it (assuming the adjustments are in the middle of their ramge). With simple construction things can move. I have had a SMOT (Simple Magnetic OU Toy) rolling around and around for at best 3 hours and 27 minutes, at worst it even will not make it up and over one ramp! I am working on the design of the ramps and the way the magnet assys are adjusted to try to eliminate as much variation and widen out any narrow margins. Several others can tell you that once adjusted, the Phase two devices (multi linked straight ramps) will work every time, but the adjustments are tricky. I have never seen anything which would cause me to believe that the magnets are loosing strength during this process. The normal cause of a stoppage is for the spacing of the magnet assys at the top of the ramp to close or alter closer to the track and cause a hang or the ball sucked to one side. This is I believe because I retain the magnet assys with straight pins pushed into balse. Makes for easy adjustment. But the attractive forces between the magnets are greatest at the top of the ramp as the ball starts to exit and after several thousand passes, the magnets only have to move approx 0.25mm and things change. When you build a unit you will understand that my purpose with the SMOT is to prove mag ou is possible. Not to build a lab unit or anything that could work for a really long time. I am sure others will come up with better systems in time. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 14:36:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA31528; Wed, 21 May 1997 14:35:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:35:16 -0700 Message-ID: <33836A3F.614B2360@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 07:03:51 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg , List Server Vortex Subject: Request for photographs X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KfG2e.0.Li7.IgsWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3161 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, In setting up the SMOT (Simple Magnetic Ou Toy) discussion and construction project, I would request any of my original constructor group to send me, via attachments, photos of the ramps you have constructed. If you have achieved multi ramps so much the better. You can do this three ways : 1) Take a photo and have in scanned into a jpeg file on a floppy. 2) Take a digital photo and convert it to jpeg. 3) Take your ramp to a computer shop with a digital camera and do step 2. The photos and constructors will be shown on the web sites hosting this project. I appreciate your efforts, then, now and in the future. Thanks in advance, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 15:00:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA06143; Wed, 21 May 1997 15:00:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:00:07 -0700 Message-ID: <33837014.2835D0C7@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 07:28:44 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Simple Ou Toy web sites] X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KGGpD1.0.gV1.b1tWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3162 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > At 3:19 PM 5/21/97, Greg Watson wrote: > [snip] > > > >My Simple Magnetic Ou Toy is a modification of the Hartman patent > >(4,215,330) using multi curved ramps. You are correct, it does work! > >Building and adjusting the magnetic contours is tricky. The ramp > >designs I will present, make it easy to develop the skill necessary to > >master the adjustments. > > > [snip] > > It seems like plastic or even glass tubing should be fairly easy to adjust. > Is there some reason rails are necessary? > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner Hi Horace, Tubing was my first choice, but I quickly found that it allows the ball to slop sideways and not travel on the "Neutral Line". The side to side attractive magnetic forces are much greater than the up the ramp forces and it is critical for the ball to be restrained from ANY side ways movement, but be allowed unrestricted up the ramp movement. The rails came out as the best solution. Even with rails, unbalanced side forces can increase frictional losses very quickly and reduce up the ramp energy gain. Like all machines, you just got to KNOW now to make the stupid thing (sorry mother nature) work. Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 15:53:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA24779; Wed, 21 May 1997 15:52:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:52:24 -0700 Message-ID: <33837C2C.6D7300FE@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:20:20 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefan Hartmann CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, List Server Vortex Subject: Re: How many hours ? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <97052123241107@odin> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o9EuB1.0.t26.botWp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3163 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > just curious: > > How many hours did your device already run continiously now ? 1) The SMOT (Simple Magnetic Ou Toy) achieved approx 3.5 hours. 2) The RMOD (Rotary Magnetic Ou Device, the one I am patenting) ran for just on 4 days before it got tired (Not the magnets, just the physical construction). I have stopped it now and I am building a plexi-glass unit. "See NO Wires". > Maybe you can post an update on this ? See above. > Good luck for building the new toy thing... > > Regards, STefan. Best regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 18:03:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA28005; Wed, 21 May 1997 17:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 02:51:54 +0200 Message-Id: <199705220051.CAA20515@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Newman´s 2 Coil Experiment Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"ymVHu3.0.Qr6.RWvWp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3164 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:54 21.05.1997 GMT, Newman-l wrote: >From: Greg Watson >Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 16:24:15 +0930 >Subject: Re: Two Coil Experiment >Organization: Greg Watson Consulting > >Newman-l wrote: >>=20 >> From: Greg East >> Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 17:29:55 -0700 >> Subject: Re: Two Coil Experiment >>=20 >> Hi all, >>=20 >> Every once in a while I'll go to Newman's book for some refresher and >> some inspiration. I'll also review his video. This time I was >> reviewing his Two Coil Experiment demonstrated in the video. After >> viewing, I decided to run it again for myself (I had done it once >> before), but this time I decided to use a different winding technique on >> the big coil. =20 ....rest deleted for traffic reasons.. >> All I wanted to do was share this little tidbit with the list. >> Regards, >>=20 >> Greg East > >Hi Greg, > >I am sorry to say that you are comparing apples and oranges. > >There are two energy figures when dealing with coils : > >1) Energy used to CREATE the field. > >2) Energy used to MAINTAIN the field. > >What you are measuring and what Joe Newman quotes in his book is the >second MAINTENANCE energy. The energy necessary to maintain the field >is only related to the voltage and the DC resistance of the coil. You >are therefore right, increase the number of windings and the idle >current goes DOWN, while the coil's magnetic field increases. > >HOWEVER, this has nothing to do with the amount of energy necessary to >create the coil's magnetic field. This energy goes UP as the number of >windings increase. > >Nowhere, in the copies of Joe's book Evan sent me, is this FACT >mentioned. > >Both Bob Shannon and I have taken this up here before. > >While designing for min maintenance current can be the goal for certain >magnetic designs, this is not the case in a Newman motor. The coils are >continually being charged up. Any analysis which only takes into >account the maintanance current will give very wrong results. A Newman >motor is a dynamic device and therefore the energy used to ramp up the >coil's fields must be accounted for properly. Steady state analysis is >not the way to do this. Yes, that is very true ! A Newman motor is a very dynamic and Non-Linear system. The "charge-up time" is mostly much smaller or equals about tau=3DL/R. As some commutator designs have also breaks in them the voltage is applied to coil only at very short time intervals. This way Newman can use high voltage without consuminmg much input power. (the current does not build up fast enough to reach its end level) Also due to the rotating magnet inside the coil the factor i*dL/dt plays an important role and it need less energy to charge=20 up the coil. > >I am NOT saying that Joe's motors don't work. I believe there is valid >research to be done on some of the anomalies in his designs. > I am convinced from my own studies that the first big Nemwan motors are overunity, but probably not the smaller ones. Due to the high cost for all the coils and magnets and the low output ratio (only a few watts) Newman motors are in its current state pretty uninteresting when it comes to output/cost calculations. That is probably also why no company yet=20 has put it into production. We hope, that with Greg Watson=B4s new device or our upcoming magnetic flux switch this could dramatically change, cause they are easy and low cost to build and with the magnetic flux switch also high power levels could be reached easily ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: www.detours.de www.overunity.de www.berlin-city.com email: harti@harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 21 19:51:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA08787; Wed, 21 May 1997 19:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:33:48 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 22:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970521223211_-1331255632@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Physics help Resent-Message-ID: <"xotvs3.0.B92.92xWp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3165 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, I have a physics problem that deals with two permanent magnets. The Two magnets are in the repulsion mode. Friction and any resistance to movement from aerodynamic drag are not to be calculated. The problem is, if one magnet is moved at a rapid rate toward the other magnet, I need to know by using a formula ( I have no math background to speek of, but I can learn one formula I'm sure ) what takes place with respect to delay of movement between the first magnet that is moved and the second at rest magnet. If the first magnet is moved rapidly for one half inch for example, how long will it be before the second magnet is moved one half inch? I see the problem dealing with over coming the rest inerita of the second magnet and calculating a time to cover the same distance as the first magnet. The magnetic field of the two magnets would seem to " compress" for short period of time. This problem deals with a overunity design I am working on. Any help would be appreciated, any variables can be set by the person helping solve the problem ( type magnet, strength, rate of movement of first magnet, ) note: The first magnet reverses direction after one half inch. If more info is needed, please ask. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 22 02:01:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA16959; Thu, 22 May 1997 01:59:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 01:59:02 -0700 From: mindtech@om.com.au Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:43:16 +1000 Message-Id: <9705220843.AB20158@atom.om.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@om.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TED Resent-Message-ID: <"Ju4lv1.0.o84.Lh0Xp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3166 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks Horace for taking the time to post your concept. I have done a printout and will have some interesting reading for the weekend. It's always good to see more technical content on this list. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 22 10:13:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA03367; Thu, 22 May 1997 10:06:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:06:47 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:05:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970522130525_-1432154605@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Fwd: Addition to physics problem Resent-Message-ID: <"OA-6m3.0.Vp.Sq7Xp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3167 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Addition to physics problem Date: 97-05-22 13:04:41 EDT From: HLafonte To: newman-l@emachine.com I left out some information when explaining the physics problem: The second magnet is held in place by having a magnet in repulsion on it's opposite side. The second magnet is " balanced " between the first magnet which will be "jerked" and the third magnet that is fixed in place. The one half inch movement of the first magnet can not be matched by the second magnet in this configuration, but I am looking to find the time lapse between the " jerking " of the first magnet (at different rates) and the second (middle) magnet's completion of travel toward the fixed third magnet. The movement can't be instantaneous there has to be a delay the way I see it, and the faster the "jerk" the longer the delay. Sorry, but I typed the first message very late a night, to late as you can see. I know this is a complex problem, but it means a lot to my project. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 22 12:50:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA21326; Thu, 22 May 1997 12:35:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:35:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Keasy@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:33:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970522153344_-1699752342@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, harti@bbtt.de cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How many hours ? Resent-Message-ID: <"VvaYX3.0.1D5.O0AXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3168 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg and all, At the risk (justified, I think) of being tedious, let me see if we all understand what Greg says his devices will do: Once started, both the SMOT and RMOD will run on their own indefinitely (3 hours to four days demonstrated) and continuously WITHOUT EVER ANY HUMAN ANYWHERE NEAR THEM and without any additional electrical, magnetic, or other energy input of any kind. This precludes adjustments as the devices are running to keep them aligned (or whatever reason). While I certainly hope the claim is true (that is mostly what this group is all about), we all know many thousands, if not millions, of people have tried to accomplish this over the past 100 years or so. Further, the commercial value of its natural extensions would almost certainly be in the many billions, if not trillions, of dollars. So I think a bit of healthy skepticism is warranted. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 22 14:48:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA08938; Thu, 22 May 1997 14:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:34:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: wharton@128.183.200.226 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:31:54 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Larry Wharton Subject: Re: Simple OU Device Resent-Message-ID: <"bpCeb1.0.XB2.pkBXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3169 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In response to Rick Monteverde's question: >Larry Wharton wrote: > > > This is the case of the Tesla motor (imagined > > by Joe Newman to be his invention). > >Could you be more specific about which Tesla motor you're refering to? I was referring to the 1888 Tesla patent #381,970 which is identical to Joe Newman's machine. >If it's organizing random heat into useable magnetic energy though, isn't >that an apparent 2nd law violation, or do you think it will turn out to be >just a sort of tricky heat pump after all? Yes it would be a violation of the second law. The device would not be a heat pump because all the components are about the same temperature. In all magnetic heat pumps there is a significant change in temperature through the cycle. I will look up the magnetic thermodynamic relations and post them. That should make the basis of the second law violation clearer. Lawrence E. Wharton NASA/GSFC code 913 Greenbelt MD 20771 (301) 286-3486 Email - wharton@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 22 15:48:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA20049; Thu, 22 May 1997 15:47:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:47:07 -0700 From: BBowyer744@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:46:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970522184324_1888848929@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Prototype Resent-Message-ID: <"qYD1b1.0.Av4.gpCXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3171 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! I have been interested in time travel for a long time. It has been my dream to invent a time machine one day and witness famous events. I went to your site and it said you could send the scamatics and theory to anyone interested. I would really like to look over you're work. Could you please send me a copy? Here's my address: Blake Bowyer 1939 Mariner lane Woodbridge, Virginia 22192 Thank you very much. Blake From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 22 15:50:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA16601; Thu, 22 May 1997 15:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3384C934.7C98@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:01:16 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How many hours ? References: <97052123241107@odin> <33837C2C.6D7300FE@microtronics.com.au> <33839834.108E@math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Lm31F2.0.A34.EeCXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3170 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > > 1) The SMOT (Simple Magnetic Ou Toy) achieved approx 3.5 hours. > > > > That seems extremely important. The major question is: could > you restart it? Yes, many times. > If not, that is fairly clear evidence that > it exhausted some small amount of energy stored in the system, > > Also, as a benchmark, if the magnets are not present and the ball > is released from the highest point on the track ( how high is > that?), how long will it stay in motion before coming to a full > stop. This (plus knowing the release height) lets you calculate the > rate of energy loss for the mechanical part of the system. The max height is 12mm above the lowest point. If released at the high point, the ball will roll down the exit slope (approx 75 deg) to the entry of the next ramp and stop. Look at the patent 4,215,330. Its all there, the patent shows the linked ramps but not in a circle or the use of a curved ramp (my improvements). > -- > Barry Merriman Hi Barry, I would suggest you look at the patent. My improvements are in how the mag fields are generated, how the fields are made adjustable, how to link the ramps, how to build a curved ramp and how to link curved ramp units. Other than that, a study of the patent should provide all the basic understanding of what I will present. I don't claim to have invented the mag ramp, only improved it and made it easier to build and get working. You can view the patent at : http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4215330 Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 22 17:35:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA01632; Thu, 22 May 1997 17:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:17:40 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: How many hours ? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"ZtWFE3.0.NP.yBEXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3172 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, You mention your "improvements" to 4215330 below. Hope you aren't planning to apply for a patent on all those. At the very least I would expect a severe problem in the "obviousness test" as applied to improvements over and above the information posted in public domain. See a few relevent postings below: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - At 8:01 AM 5/23/97, Greg Watson wrote: [snip] > >Hi Barry, > >I would suggest you look at the patent. My improvements are in how the >mag fields are generated, how the fields are made adjustable, how to >link the ramps, how to build a curved ramp and how to link curved ramp >units. > >Other than that, a study of the patent should provide all the basic >understanding of what I will present. > >I don't claim to have invented the mag ramp, only improved it and made >it easier to build and get working. > >You can view the patent at : > > http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4215330 > > >Regards, > Greg - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:25:10 -0800 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Simple OU Device Cc: Bcc: X-Attachments: At 10:48 AM 5/8/97, Greg Watson wrote: >Hi All, >Just a short note to all those suggestions to use multi straight ramps or >curved return tracks to close the loop. >I have tried various schemes without success. >What I have found is that with any angled scheme, the ball will not be >able to stay on the "Neutral Line" of side to side attraction between the >magnet assys and will loose energy because of the much larger side ways >attractions very quickly. >Seems angled schemes are doomed to fail. The ball must stay on the >"Neutral Line". >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg >Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax If you have a couple of the black boxes maybe you could try them in series. If there is any o-u performance, enough boxes in series might eventually give enough energy for a return trip. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Resent-Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:46:33 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:51:00 -0800 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Simple OU Device Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6702 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com At 4:01 PM 5/8/97, Greg Watson wrote: >Horace Heffner wrote: >>At 10:48 AM 5/8/97, Greg Watson wrote: >>>Hi All, >>>Just a short note to all those suggestions to use multi straight ramps >>>or curved return tracks to close the loop. >>>I have tried various schemes without success. >>>What I have found is that with any angled scheme, the ball will not be >>>able to stay on the "Neutral Line" of side to side attraction between >>>the magnet assys and will loose energy because of the much larger side >>>ways attractions very quickly. >>>Seems angled schemes are doomed to fail. The ball must stay on the >>>"Neutral Line". >>If you have a couple of the black boxes maybe you could try them in >>series. If there is any o-u performance, enough boxes in series might >>eventually give enough energy for a return trip. >>Regards, >>Horace Heffner >Hi Horace, >Isn't a good engineering solution as the "Tuning" of the exit is sensitive >to the ball speed (too much and it leaved the exit track and is attracted >to one of the side magnets). Use the speed to gain potential energy. You could even put the box on an upwar incline if necessary to avoid excessive speed. The the ball will not leave the track. >While the ramps are simple to build and seem to indicate OU, I feel they >are NOT the way to close the loop. My testing seems to indicate that out >of a vertical lift and drop of 20mm, I can recover around 2-3mm worth of >energy on exit. For a 12mm steel ball, that's not a lot of energy to play >with. That's plenty. Ten boxes and you have a rise of 2-3 cm. that's plenty of elevation to roll around a corner - plus an initial 10 m of track to get away from the box. >They can, however, teach us about what is going on and why. >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg >Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax Regards, Horace Heffner - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 04:41:04 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 03:46:26 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Simple OU Device Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6705 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com At 4:17 PM 5/8/97, Greg Watson wrote: >Horace Heffner wrote: >> >> If you had one working you could easily rent a business space and charge >> $10 admission just to see the world's first successful perpetual motion >> machine. That should cover your patenting, development, and marketing costs >> till you really got going. >> >> Regards, >> >> Horace Heffner > >Hi Horace, > >And to think I thought you were the straight man. Silly me. I am serious. This is certainly what I would do if I was out to commercialize what you have, provided the miracle of closing the loop can be accomplished. I believe in starting small and growing when it is possible. I would certainly take that approach before going after investor money. This is not a big energy thing at this point, even if you close the loop. It would only be a demonstrator, but a very animated one. However, that has value. I think you should be be able to draw 100 people a day per 1,000,000 population for some time. You could franchise or expand to the major cities around the world. New York alone should be worth $10,000/day gross for some time. > >At least now I know that you only believe in "OU according to Horace". I believe in replicated data demonstrating success. OU is not a religion, and may not be a fact. However, since I spend all available money and most of my time when not busy in my full time job serving a family of four as cook, butler, shopper, chauffeur, handyman, mechanic, and errand boy, I suppose you could say I have a considerable amount of faith in the prospect of finding an improved energy source. I have given freely of many ideas in a public domain pulic forum. That makes me feel like maybe, just maybe, as a part of a synergistic whole, I am giving something significant to society. > >Join the discussion group, spectics keep us ALL honest. Just curious, is the intellectual property generated by the group property of the group, or is it public domain? > > >-- >Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au >Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax Regards, Horace Heffner - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Resent-Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 14:54:38 -0700 Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 07:23:49 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Device Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6716 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Horace Heffner wrote: > > >Join the discussion group, spectics keep us ALL honest. > > Just curious, is the intellectual property generated by the group property > of the group, or is it public domain? Hadn't thought of that. Its not mine. I guess its there to be used by all. -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson@microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 22 18:12:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA31744; Thu, 22 May 1997 18:11:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:11:28 -0700 Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:08:47 -0500 (CDT) From: John Fields Subject: Re: Electronics To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"C0-Eo1.0.sl7.-wEXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3173 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 20 May 1997, Horace Heffner wrote: > At 3:06 PM 5/20/97, Science wig. sig. wrote: > >Can some one please recomend a good book on learning electronics? I know > >some of the basics, but not much. Can someone tell me where to look to > >learn more? > >Andrew -- > >+-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ > > I'm just learing electronics myself, as time permits, so I've been through > a few of these hoops lately. > > One of the best for beginner self study is "Grob Basic Electronics", by > Grob, McGraw Hill, ISBN 0-02-800762-X (Call 1-800-262-4729 to get McGraw > Hill toll free). Lots of physics along with the electronics. It goes very > slow, but that's why it is good for self study. It spells out everything. > I recommend you do lots of the problems with answers supplied. It's boring > but well worth the time. > > For lots of circuits to play with, try the McGraw Hill "Encyclopedia of > Electronics". Don't spend a lot of money on the books like I have, though, > get the CD ROM version. I got the first four book volumes super cheap, for > like about $15, by joining the McGraw Hill EE Book Club, but the follow on > volumes have cost a bit. You can print the circuit diagrams from the CD on > a PC. > > "Electrionic Devices", Floyd, Prentice Hall, ISBN 0-13-363599-6 (electron > flow version) seems pretty good. > > An absolute must eventually is "The Art of Electronics", second edition, by > Paul Horowiz and Winfield Hill, Cambridge University Press, ISBN > 0-521-37095-7. > > Also, the "cookbooks" are a must - the "TTL Cookbook", "CMOS Cookbook", and > "Op Amp Cookbook". I don't have those yet so don't have other info. Would > appreciate it if anyone does. As with most things, I'm just plodding along > a bit at a time. > > That's an amateur viewpoint. I'm eager to hear what someone who knows what > he is doing has to say. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner > > > ---------------- Build it! John Fields ---------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 22 19:25:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA17662; Thu, 22 May 1997 19:10:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:10:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705230208.WAA00095@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: Prototype To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:08:00 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <970522184324_1888848929@emout03.mail.aol.com> from "BBowyer744@aol.com" at May 22, 97 06:46:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"VTTms.0.rJ4.foFXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3174 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Please send me the information soo. Andrew Cantino 33 Cable Lane Athens, OH 45701 Or, just send it by e-mail. Please do not use attached files. Andrew > > Hi! I have been interested in time travel for a long time. It has been > my dream to invent a time machine one day and witness famous events. I went > to your site and it said you could send the scamatics and theory to anyone > interested. I would really like to look over you're work. Could you please > send me a copy? Here's my address: > Blake Bowyer > 1939 Mariner lane > Woodbridge, Virginia > 22192 > Thank you very much. > Blake > > -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 22 20:07:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA23527; Thu, 22 May 1997 19:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:51:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705230251.TAA19976@ganymede.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Re: How many hours ? Resent-Message-ID: <"h6ZC53.0.Tl5.RQGXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3175 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > --snip-- >Further, the commercial value of its natural extensions >would almost certainly be in the many billions, if not >trillions, of dollars. So I think a bit of healthy >skepticism is warranted. > Ken Keasy@aol.com > To be more specific this huge market would not be for selling energy ( as many think ) but for selling the machines. Nobody would ever pay money for energy when it's free. Eventually if good enough devices were developed, all our computers, radios and appliances will be wireless. Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /**********************************************************/ /* has anyone ever proven to you that energy is conserved */ /**********************************************************/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 22 20:25:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA30743; Thu, 22 May 1997 20:24:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:24:11 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:52:04 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Tesla's or Neuman's machines? Resent-Message-ID: <"yBu-b.0.4W7.PtGXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3176 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Larry - > I was referring to the 1888 Tesla patent > #381,970 which is identical to Joe > Newman's machine. Thanks. I don't have a complete description of it, but I do have a few drawings from the patent. It's for a "system of electrical distribution", and looks like a fairly conventional-looking alternator connected to a big toroidal coil, then on to a distribution grid. Perhaps the drawings are incomplete, and the toroid is really part of a motor. That looks to be the case, as #382,279 "electro magnetic motor" or #390,413 "system of electrical distribution" & #390,414 "dynamo electric machine" look like motors and have that same or similar ring shaped coil, but now have armature windings on a shaft in the middle. Evan, if you see this, are any of these "identical" or even similar to JN's machine? Can you explain what those Tesla patents are, and what the important differences are between those and JN's? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 23 00:28:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA12253; Fri, 23 May 1997 00:28:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:28:09 -0700 Message-ID: <338541C5.10E5@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:35:41 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Physics help References: <970521223211_-1331255632@emout01.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3eb6O.0.M_2.8SKXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3177 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Hello, > I have a physics problem that deals with two permanent magnets. The Two > magnets are in the repulsion mode. Friction and any resistance to movement > from aerodynamic drag are not to be calculated. The problem is, if one magnet > is moved at a rapid rate toward the other magnet, I need to know by using a > formula ( I have no math background to speek of, but I can learn one formula > I'm sure ) what takes place with respect to delay of movement between the > first magnet that is moved and the second at rest magnet. If the first magnet > is moved rapidly for one half inch for example, how long will it be before > the second magnet is moved one half inch? I see the problem dealing with over > coming the rest inerita of the second magnet and calculating a time to cover > the same distance as the first magnet. The magnetic field of the two magnets > would seem to " compress" for short period of time. This problem deals with a > overunity design I am working on. Any help would be appreciated, any > variables can be set by the person helping solve the problem ( type magnet, > strength, rate of movement of first magnet, ) note: The first magnet reverses > direction after one half inch. If more info is needed, please ask. > Thanks, Butch LaFonte Hi Butch, To start with, the magnets would repel to the ends of the universe. Otherwise, I believe the second unit would feel the compression of the first by a light speed time interval. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 23 00:46:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA15758; Fri, 23 May 1997 00:45:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:45:58 -0700 Message-ID: <33854AE2.791A@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:14:34 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccHaynie@ix.netcom.com.erp CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How many hours ? References: <97052123241107@odin> <33837C2C.6D7300FE@microtronics.com.au> <33839834.108E@math.ucla.edu> <3384C934.7C98@microtronics.com.au> <33851A3E.246@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_ghYA.0.7s3.siKXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3179 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Craig Haynie wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > The max height is 12mm above the lowest point. > > > > If released at the high point, the ball will roll down the exit slope > > (approx 75 deg) to the entry of the next ramp and stop. > > Why does it stop? The patent indicates that it will continue up the next > ramp. From what I understand, you must have solved this problem. How did > you do it? > > Thanks, > > Craig Haynie > ccHaynie@ix.netcom.com Hi Craig, I stops because Barry asked me what happens when I remove the magnets and release the ball from the highest point. Best regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 23 00:48:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA05832; Fri, 23 May 1997 00:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33854842.A55@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:03:22 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How many hours ? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mB_nX.0.wQ1.IZKXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3178 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > Greg, > > You mention your "improvements" to 4215330 below. Hope you aren't planning > to apply for a patent on all those. At the very least I would expect a > severe problem in the "obviousness test" as applied to improvements over > and above the information posted in public domain. See a few relevent > postings below: Hi Horace, My RMOD (Rotary Magnetic Ou Device), which I am patenting, is VERY different to the patent. I based the SMOT (Simple Magnetic Ou Toy) on the patent as it is public domain. Best regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 23 00:58:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA17627; Fri, 23 May 1997 00:58:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:58:01 -0700 Message-ID: <33854DB6.233D@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:26:38 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Toy References: <970521124958_100060.173_JHB94-3@CompuServe.COM> <33833252.5A5B@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4xkHv1.0.KJ4.8uKXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3180 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Craig Haynie wrote: > > Greg: > > Is your ball-on-ramps device still running? No, but it will start whenever I can put up with the noise. > If so, what is the total distance of the circular track, and how many > revolutions per minute do you get of the ball moving around the track? It is approx 500mm in dia, uses 8 curved ramps and it takes about 12 seconds for a circuit. The unit I will show you how to build will be quite a bit more compact. The ramps will cost about $5 Aust ($3.50) US each. > I've taken a look at the patent, 4,215,330, and it still baffles me. I > can seen how an ever increasing magnetic field could induce a ball to > roll up a hill, but I don't see how the ball could get free of the > strong magnetic attraction at the top of the hill. I suppose the > magnetic field at the top of the ramp is not strong enough to suspend > the ball in mid-air when it reaches the hole, through which it is > supposed to fall, but if it isn't this strong, then how does it pull the > ball up the ramp? The magnetic field contours are very different in the ramp and under the ramp as the ball falls. It does work and my units are VERY easy to build and adjust compared to the patent. 6 others have duplicated the ramp, that I know of. > Hasta, > > Craig Haynie > ccHaynie@ix.netcom.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 23 01:20:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA10040; Fri, 23 May 1997 01:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33854FD1.25EE@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:35:37 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic OU: Discussion References: <970521204629_-664570232@emout02.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"g52sA1.0.iS2.U1LXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3181 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Puthoff@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/21/97 8:33:04 PM, the following question was asked: > > < pulls something toward it, it does work, but where is the conservation > of energy?>> > > Magnetic field energy is decreased as object moves into and quenches part of > the field distribution; Quenches part of the field? I don't understand this Hal. If the object is a soft ferromagnetic material, the field energy increases due to the additive action of the soft aligning domains in the ferrite. > shows up as kinetic energy of the object moving > toward the magnet. > > Hal Puthoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 23 01:27:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA21454; Fri, 23 May 1997 01:26:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:26:42 -0700 Message-ID: <33855415.6E45@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:53:49 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How many hours ? References: <970522153344_-1699752342@emout14.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NmAYB1.0.0F5.0JLXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3182 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keasy@aol.com wrote: > > Greg and all, > At the risk (justified, I think) of being tedious, let me see if we all > understand what Greg says his devices will do: > Once started, both the SMOT and RMOD will run on their own indefinitely > (3 hours to four days demonstrated) and continuously WITHOUT EVER ANY HUMAN > ANYWHERE NEAR THEM and without any additional electrical, magnetic, or other > energy input of any kind. This precludes adjustments as the devices are > running to keep them aligned (or whatever reason). Correct. > While I certainly hope the claim is true (that is mostly what this group > is all about), we all know many thousands, if not millions, of people have > tried to accomplish this over the past 100 years or so. Further, the > commercial value of its natural extensions would almost certainly be in the > many billions, if not trillions, of dollars. So I think a bit of healthy > skepticism is warranted. > Ken Keasy@aol.com Hi Ken, I really believe others have achieved what I have. Anyway, by mid week the plans will be out for the Phase 1 device. Build one (cost about $4 us) and experiment. In Phase 2 we will link 3 to 4 devices together. Best regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 23 01:40:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA11703; Fri, 23 May 1997 01:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3385533C.4CEF@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:50:12 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Toy References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------655243CD426D" Resent-Message-ID: <"pyhN41.0.js2.vJLXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3183 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------655243CD426D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Logajan wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > 1) The Simple OU Toy is not my rotary device. Same leg action, > > different dog. > > 2) It is a closed loop version of the patent 4,215,330, with > > improvements. > > A word of warning to replicators of the Hartman 4,215,330 patent: > > A single pass through the device might not verify the operation > of a closed loop version. The Hartman device might contain somewhat > of an illusion. > > Namely, though the gradual slope up and the steep slope down > guarantee that the ball returns to the same gravitational > potential (assuming the thing actually works) there is no > obvious guarantee that the ball also returns to the same > magnetic potential. > > Clearly the magnetic field is strongest above the "knee" in order > to pull the ball up to the knee point. The steep slope down > puts the ball at a point closer to the strongest magnetic field > than the starting point down the more distant shallow slope. > > It is very important to actually demonstrate that the ball can > return to the exact same starting point (close the loop.) > Otherwise the ball might actually have "fallen" to a lower > potential energy position that prohibits further motion, > ala conservation of energy rules. > > -- > - John Logajan -- jlogajan@skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - HI John, There are actually three possibilities with the ramp as per the attached drawing. Any of the three can be achieved depending on how the field contour under the magnets is massaged. The linked ramps as shown in the patent work. Others as well as I have verified this. I should be ready with the first Phase 1 plans by mid week. Build a unit (cost about $4 us) and then scratch your head. 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+0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Toy References: <970521124958_100060.173_JHB94-3@CompuServe.COM> <33833252.5A5B@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FAalg1.0.9-4.X1NXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3184 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Greg - > > > No, but it will start whenever > > I can put up with the noise. > > Noise costs power. Do you polish the rails? > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI Hi Rick, With graphite! Best regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 23 06:25:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA24875; Fri, 23 May 1997 06:24:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 06:24:44 -0700 Message-ID: <33858277.1097@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 21:11:43 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Callender CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: RMODs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wgxzK1.0.R46.QgPXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3185 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Paul Callender wrote: > > Hi Greg, > I have recently been working on ideas for a RMOD and have figured out a > setup that I think may work. I am trying to get the resources together to > try it out, I can't find anything down here in NZ. I just wanted to know if > I am working on the same lines as yourself, so if I may ask two questions > (you don't have to answer) it would tell me if I should pursue or if I am > just covering the same path you are currently working on. > > 1. Does your RMOD require gravity to function? It uses a restortative force in addition to magnetic forces. The SMOT device uses gravity as a restortative force. The effect seems to need two forces to function. > 2. If you use a gradiated magnetic field, is it linear or is the graph of > the strength of magnets vs. distance like a curve or even "S" shaped? Like the SMOT device, the magnetic field contours are distorted to that required. > Again, you don't have to answer, I respect that you have put a lot of time > into magnetic OU and would most likely wish to have some returns for the > time you put in. I don't mind cause I'll just keep experimenting till I get > something that works well, but it would help me if I know if we are, or are > not on the same paths. > > Thanks, > ................... > > Paul Callender Hi Paul, I can give you some clues. There seems to be four effects you must control to achieve success. 1) Distorted magnetic field contours which are different on entry and exit. 2) Linear restortative force which is equal but differential over input to exit. 3) A soft ferromagnetic material to act as a vector summing device for the forces. 4) A time and distance varying permeability in the soft ferrite. Blend them all together and drive a Phd nuts. Hope this helps. Never be afraid to ask. You never really know what the answer will be. Best regards, Greg. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 23 06:48:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA29416 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 23 May 1997 06:48:02 -0700 Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 06:48:02 -0700 X-Envelope-From: schall@it.sait.ab.ca Fri May 23 06:48:00 1997 Received: from cgate.ace.sait.ab.ca (SYSTEM@cgate.ace.sait.ab.ca [142.110.131.2]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA29382 for ; Fri, 23 May 1997 06:47:59 -0700 Received: from DN-RELAY by cgate.sait.ab.ca (PMDF V5.1-8 #20584) id <01IJ79HXHGO08WW3B9@cgate.sait.ab.ca> for freenrg-L@eskimo.com; Fri, 23 May 1997 07:47:52 MST Received: from it.sait.ab.ca (mail.it.sait.ab.ca) by acdm.sait.ab.ca (PMDF V5.1-8 #15163) with SMTP id <01IJ79IJGWII8WW4G5@acdm.sait.ab.ca> for freenrg-L@eskimo.com; Fri, 23 May 1997 07:48:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by it.sait.ab.ca; id AA02742; Fri, 23 May 1997 07:49:21 -0600 Old-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 07:48:57 -0600 From: Shane Hall Subject: Self Accelerating Plasma Tube To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Message-id: <3385A048.E687235C@mail.it.sait.ab.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Hello Ossie, I was very interested in your posting of the modified Siberian Coliu. Have there been any positive experiments since your post? Searching for the source, Shane Hall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 23 14:15:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA13125; Fri, 23 May 1997 14:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:01:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:03:29 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: diagrams/specs Resent-Message-ID: <"jFzSD3.0.zC3.pMWXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3186 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Larry - > > > I was referring to the 1888 Tesla patent > > #381,970 which is identical to Joe > > Newman's machine. > >Thanks. I don't have a complete description of it, but I do have a few >drawings from the patent. It's for a "system of electrical distribution", >and looks like a fairly conventional-looking alternator connected to a big >toroidal coil, then on to a distribution grid. Perhaps the drawings are >incomplete, and the toroid is really part of a motor. That looks to be the >case, as #382,279 "electro magnetic motor" or #390,413 "system of >electrical distribution" & #390,414 "dynamo electric machine" look like >motors and have that same or similar ring shaped coil, but now have >armature windings on a shaft in the middle. > >Evan, if you see this, are any of these "identical" or even similar to JN's >machine? Can you explain what those Tesla patents are, and what the >important differences are between those and JN's? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI Dear Rick, If you are able to locate drawings/specs for the above devices I would be happy to look at them. I endeavored to call up the patent info on the internet, but nothing came up. My mailing address is: P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684. Evan Soule' josephnewman@earthlink.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 23 14:39:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA10655; Fri, 23 May 1997 14:38:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:38:13 -0700 Message-ID: <33860DD4.37A3@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 07:06:20 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Toy References: <970521124958_100060.173_JHB94-3@CompuServe.COM> <33833252.5A5B@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gvJHu3.0.Dc2.2vWXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3187 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Greg - > > > With graphite! > > That's lubrication. I mean *polish* the rails. Very fine abrasives in > stages arriving at a mirror flat edge surface where the surface of the ball > rides. There should be no rumbling or other rough sound as the balls travel > on the raceways. If those rails have their edges flattened nicely, there > should be almost no significant sound from it at all except where there's > impact from a falling ball off the end of a ramp, and it shouldn't even > need lube. Not necessary I suppose with the SMOT if it works; working at > all is the thing. I run the side of a pencil over the side of the Alum "U" channel. Seems to remove most small bumps and dents. The graphite stays on the rails and provides dry lubrication. You are right, noise is wasted energy. My first stage SMOT is fairly quiet. > But wouldn't it be fun or useful to eliminate as much friction as possible > to see what the system will do - like accelerate a bit over the first few > revolutions? The initial SMOT devices are NOT rotary. That will happen later as you learn the characteristics of mag ramps. One small step at a time. > Does your RMOD accelerate a bit from a minimal initial starting push? My current RMOD plexi-glass unit is under continual torque. It self starts. The SMOT device does accelerate as it starts to climd the ramp. It will self start as well. > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI Hi Rick, The plans for the Phase 1 device will be out by mid week, maybe sooner. I have e-mailed the original drawings to Jean-Louis. Build a ramp and gives us some feedback on reducing friction. I have found that friction is a MAJOR source of energy loss and the biggest cause of unreliable / unstable operation. I have responded to both mail groups in this corro. That will be my standard reply unless you request your corro to be kept private. I am doing this to ensure we all get the benefit of all of our input and ideas. Best regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 23 19:40:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA03933; Fri, 23 May 1997 19:39:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:39:52 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@best.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:42:59 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated Resent-Message-ID: <"Jd-2G.0.Iz.tJbXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3188 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ Most New Data Files are at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT All the revisions are in the file: http://www.padrak.com/ine/REVISIONS.html ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ May 23, 1997 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 5, No. 1, May 1997 Promotion By Destruction - On Cold Fusion The New Energy Spectrum Fusion Briefings: Playing The Lose-Lose Game Gene Mallove In The News R&D Magazine Looks At Cold Fusion Einstein Would Have Called It "Cold Fission" New Patterson-Cravens Patent Finnish Gravity Research Summary in Nexus What Are Characteristics Of The Aether? Electrostatics Newsletter Apologies To Dr. Bockris Letter Letter From Don Kelly on Advanced Energy Projects Letter From Steve Smith Regarding P&F and Cold Fusion Added: Steven Mark's Device: Known Data from AU Orgone Energy Seminars Offered in Aug. 1997 Joseph Newman's Electric Lift Device Experiment A Compilation of Anti-Gravity Articles And References New Plasmiod Pictures and sites from Edward Lewis His new web site, new ELEWIS9 pictures link, and a new link (moved) for his ELEWIS8 page. Updated: Fabulous Facts File, Websites, People, Organizations, etc. Site Counter = 106,547 ! More than some other "adult sites"! HAPPY 4TH ISNE! (I hope someone demos something useful...) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 23 21:56:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA20156; Fri, 23 May 1997 21:44:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 21:44:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33860DD4.37A3@microtronics.com.au> References: <970521124958_100060.173_JHB94-3@CompuServe.COM> <33833252.5A5B@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:41:55 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Simple OU Toy Resent-Message-ID: <"gMo9V2.0.rw4.Q8dXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3189 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg - > Build a ramp and gives us some feedback on > reducing friction. I have found that friction > is a MAJOR source of energy loss and the > biggest cause of unreliable / unstable > operation. I'm in. > > I have responded to both mail groups in this > corro. That will be my standard reply > unless you request your corro to be kept > private. I am doing this to ensure we all get > the benefit of all of our input and ideas. Cool. I thought I *was* on list, until after I sent my reply I saw the reply button had resulted in an offlist message. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 23 22:31:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA28755; Fri, 23 May 1997 22:30:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 22:30:51 -0700 Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 22:30:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Rusi To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Comments from Weird Science (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Resent-Message-ID: <"KefLE.0.C17.BqdXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3190 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 21 May 1997, William Beaty wrote: > see below >=20 > .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,...........................= =2E. > William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 > EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~bill= b/ > Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page >=20 >=20 > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 07:20:29 -0700 > From: Arlen > To: billb@eskimo.com > Subject: Comments from Weird Science >=20 > --- category --- > ok >=20 > --- comments --- > \TROMBLY\ MAY 16, 1997 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, GLOBAL PEACE PROJECT,add= ressing OUR GLOBAL ENVIRONMENTAL EMERGENCY, PROBLEMS AND SOLUTIONSContact: = David Crockett Williams, Santa Barbara Coordinator, 805-961-2701Addressing= Our Global Environmental Emergency which threatens all Life on Earth, Adam= Trombly is giving his first radio interview in three years on this Sunday,= May 18th, from 9PM to midnight, locally on KTMS and nationally via Jeff Re= nse's syndicated radio show which can be accessed with sound card by intern= et at his web page . Trombly is a physicist and clim= atologist at The Institute for Advanced Studies in Aspen, Colorado, which h= e founded with Buckminster Fuller. Adam Trombly is an internationally ackn= owledged expert in the fields of Physics, Atmospheric Dynamics, Geophysics,= Rotating and Resonating Electromagnetic Systems, and Environmental Global = Modeling. Taking the advice of his friend and mentor, R. Buckminster Fulle= r, Adam has maintained a "synergistic, global view" within a multi-discipli= nary scientific background. From this perspective Adam offers unique insig= hts into the changes humankind has affected on our environment, and the adj= ustments our future requires of us now.With other physicists at NASA, by th= e late 1970's, Trombly became aware of what is now known as the zero-point = energy field from anomalous planetary energy measurements. While then cons= idering the potential of tapping this energy field, inherent in three dimen= sional space itself, with a new alternative zero-point energy technology, h= e became aware of the "n-Machine" experiments done in Santa Barbara by Bruc= e DePalma in 1979. Recognizing that this was a zero-point device, he applie= d himself to the principle and shortly developed an improved configuration = called the "closed path homopolar generator" and disclosed full details in = an international patent which has inspired subsequent proof-of-concept arou= nd the world. Trombly's name, along with Bruce DePalma, Edgar Mitchell, an= d George Ainsworth-Land, appeared in a July 1981 Satellite News article pre= dicting use of this generator in satellites. In 1985, Dr. Yonas, the Chief= Scientist for the Strategic Defense Initiative, testified in US Congressio= nal budget hearings that this technology (the "homopolar" generator as Mich= ael Faraday called it in 1831) was a "critical technology" for the Strategi= c Defense Initiative ("Star Wars" weapons). In subsequent years evidence i= ndicates that this technology is in place in orbiting "rail gun" military s= atellites. Trombly for some time was under a Federal Court gag order not t= o talk about this technology after he found it under covert development for= US submarine propulsion. Risking and surviving assasination attempts to s= hut him up, Adam has courageously decided (after several years hermetic lif= estyle) to come once again to the forefront of public presentation of infor= mation regarding the seriousness of our global environmental crisis and how= this new technology can help save our planet.We are calling for the immedi= ate establishment of a GLOBAL ENVIRONMENTAL EMERGENCY RESPONSE PLAN AND TEA= M to implement solutions to this crisis. Adam has adjusted his schedule to = come to Santa Barbara to take part in our June 1 briefing for the science a= dvisor to His Holiness Dalai Lama, and has been invited to be one of the ke= y participants in the Public Briefing on these matters June 2, 7PM, at UCSB= Chem 1179, along with Brian O'Leary, former science & energy policy adviso= r to four US Presidential candidates and author of a book about these zero-= point "free energy technologies" called "Miracle in The Void", and with inv= estigative journalist Jeane Manning, author of "The Coming Energy Revolutio= n".For more details check out websites for Trombly at , Bruce DePalma at , & O'Leary The United States, through a 1952 Secrecy Order obtained under the Freedo= m of Information Act, has been suppressing the public development of this c= ritical technology in the US. However, Japan is putting millions of dollar= s into its development and negotiations are now under way, if the US policy= doesn't change, to build a $2.5 billion manufacturing plant in Germany to = produce a state-of-the-art home unit to allow individual homes to disconnec= t from utility power grids. Larger devices are also possible such as ones = to replace the electricity output of the three coal-fired electric power pl= ants in the Four Corners area which reportedly produce more acid rain pollu= tions than the top five US cities combined, and whose coal strip-mining is = the root of the genocidal US policy of the continuing forced removal of the= native American people on Arizona'a Black Mesa where Big Mountain is locat= ed. --RAA29329.864000851/coyote.rain.org--=20 >=20 > --- money --- > yes donate 5.00 >=20 > --- money2 --- > $10.00 >=20 >=20 does anyone know how this homopolar generator works? This is a real technology. I am bummed that four corners might close, it's cooling pond is a destination windsurfing site. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 23 23:15:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA01989; Fri, 23 May 1997 23:14:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 23:14:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970523194130.0068f650@multinet.net.il> X-Sender: BUSHI@multinet.net.il X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:41:30 +0300 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lev Robert Subject: Looking for the lost magnetism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"EKOIl3.0.-U.LTeXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3191 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all I have read recently that an old Indian Emperor named ASHOKA ordered his scientist to enclosed everything they knew in a book. The name of this book was "Nine unknown Men". One of the books was called "The Secrets of Gravitation". So if someone could find this book all our magnetic and gravity problems would be solved. Anyone heard about the books??? Robert BUSHILEV From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 00:05:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA07802; Sat, 24 May 1997 00:05:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:05:20 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC67D5.DD783970@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Cc: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:03:02 -0700 Encoding: 15 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"4xE9C3.0.Uv1.kCfXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3192 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: >Build a ramp and gives us some feedback on reducing friction. I have >found that friction is a MAJOR source of energy loss and the biggest >cause of unreliable / unstable operation. Might there be one point where friction could be an aid? Just at the edge where the ball is about to fall off the end of the ramp, a *tiny* point of friction to brake the forward momentum, its angular momentum (because it's been spinning) carrying it over the edge? Dan Quickert dequickert@ucdavis.edu (916) 756-0575 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 02:08:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA16626; Sat, 24 May 1997 01:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 01:56:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 22:54:41 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: diagrams/specs Resent-Message-ID: <"DeTwZ3.0.h34.CrgXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3193 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Evan - > If you are able to locate drawings/specs for > the above devices I would be happy to look at > them. I found drawings but no text in one of those bizarre books by D.H. Childress : "The Fantastic Inventions of Nikola Tesla". According to this work, Tesla and Marconi discovered the secret to long life, faked their deaths, and are now living together somewhere down in South America building UFOs for the secret world government. Maybe they have a web site by now? Ahem...uh, there's another book out which claims to list *all* his patented inventions, but I don't have it. Compiled by Ratzlaff, $40 from the International Tesla Society. I could try to scan the pictures from the pages of the book I have and send them, but I'm afraid the details won't come through well enough to get a useful look. Feel like trying that? Anyone else know if this patent (#382,279) may be found somewhere online? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 02:17:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA18314; Sat, 24 May 1997 02:17:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 02:17:21 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 23:16:16 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Comments from Weird Science (fwd) Resent-Message-ID: <"k96kd.0._T4.W8hXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3194 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Toni Rusi wrote: > does anyone know how this homopolar > generator works? This is a real technology. I > am bummed that four corners might close, > it's cooling pond is a destination windsurfing > site. Windsurfing works for me, but I don't think any homopolars have been shown to be overunity. And Trombly was not listed on the "Sightings on Radio" web site as having been on the radio on the May 18th, or any other radio show. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 05:52:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA05033; Sat, 24 May 1997 05:52:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 05:52:05 -0700 From: Tixif@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 08:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970524085129_-397686377@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Watson/Teamwork Resent-Message-ID: <"0z0j-3.0.YE1.qHkXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3195 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Having anticipated Gregs construction plans for weeks, I saw them this morning on Jean-Louis' page. It was about 6 AM and I am ready to start building. I am looking up all my sources for materials at this time and will post local resource suggestions if anyone is interested. In addition, anyone in the Austin area that would like to put their heads together is welcome to contact me. And those on the list might consider the same for their local area. You guys are amazing! Shawn From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 07:19:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA10521; Sat, 24 May 1997 07:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 07:07:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705241406.KAA06499@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: diagrams/specs To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 10:06:31 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Rick Monteverde" at May 23, 97 10:54:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"PkFMw2.0.Ia2.dOlXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3196 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey, it could list all of his PATENTED inventions! Just, he did not patent most of his good ones. They were all in his head. I have a list of all the Tesla books around at: http://frognet.net/~cantino/tesla/tesla.html > > Evan - > > > If you are able to locate drawings/specs for > > the above devices I would be happy to look at > > them. > > I found drawings but no text in one of those bizarre books by D.H. > Childress : "The Fantastic Inventions of Nikola Tesla". According to this > work, Tesla and Marconi discovered the secret to long life, faked their > deaths, and are now living together somewhere down in South America > building UFOs for the secret world government. Maybe they have a web site > by now? Ahem...uh, there's another book out which claims to list *all* his > patented inventions, but I don't have it. Compiled by Ratzlaff, $40 from > the International Tesla Society. > > I could try to scan the pictures from the pages of the book I have and send > them, but I'm afraid the details won't come through well enough to get a > useful look. Feel like trying that? > > Anyone else know if this patent (#382,279) may be found somewhere online? > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > > -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 08:05:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA16262; Sat, 24 May 1997 07:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 07:54:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Tixif@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 10:52:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970524105239_-1130233143@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Crude Success Resent-Message-ID: <"Mpuzp2.0.-z3.L4mXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3197 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Since my local hobby store wasn't open yet, I' had to play with the materials I have: 1. Track made from 2 notebook binders space ~13mm apart. 2. Binder edges resting on a calculator ~10mm thick for the rise of the ramp. 3. A mouse track ball still with the rubber grip insulation around it (high friction!) 4. A pushpin to keep the ball from rolling back down during startup, stuck into the binders ~66mm from the exit end. 5. 4 ceramic mags (3/8"X3/4"X1 13/16"). The ball WILL roll up the ramp and drop out of the field. Shawn From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 09:59:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA25790; Sat, 24 May 1997 09:46:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 09:46:53 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 12:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970524124430_843036541@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: video Resent-Message-ID: <"XBhIt.0.pI6.ejnXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3198 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, Do you have any video of your ou device working for extended periods of time? Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 11:19:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA09097; Sat, 24 May 1997 11:17:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 11:17:03 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC682B.73268D00@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Cc: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Simple OU Toy Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 10:15:38 -0700 Encoding: 26 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"2C5k82.0.wD2.U2pXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3200 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Saw the plans for the SMOT late last night on Jean-Louis Naudin's website. Immediately reconfigured one of my test rigs to see how the design works. Length, height of the ramp and the field contour adjustment generally in concept with the posted design, but used parts on hand - different size magnets (4mm x 20mm x 25mm), steel bar twice too long, wooden plant pot labels for spacers. With all that variation from the specs, it worked first time, with a lift of 18mm. Some previous experience with the ramps influenced that result, of course. Positioned a previously working ramp (of different design) at the new one's exit (second ramp's entrance at the same elevation as the first ramp's entrance); the ball ran through both ramps after minor horizontal adjustment at their linkage point. Will try to get materials to more exactly duplicate the posted design soon. Meanwhile, I'd say that the plans are good if I can go so far from the specs and still have it work so well. Of course there's also the possibility that it wouldn't work without my changes, but from my experience the differences in my quick mock-up were in the direction away from optimal. I'd opine that the design works, within a wide margin of construction variability. Dan Quickert dequickert@ucdavis.edu 916-756-0575 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 11:19:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA09162; Sat, 24 May 1997 11:17:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 11:17:10 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 13:02:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970524130231_-431223555@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Fwd: Third party testing Resent-Message-ID: <"VtUOr.0._E2.a2pXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3201 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Third party testing Date: 97-05-24 13:01:13 EDT From: HLafonte To: newman-l@emachine.com Evan, Do you think Joe would let the Academy For New Energy test the Energy Machine ? They are " pro overunity " , and I believe they would be objective in their testing. By " pro overunity " I mean they believe that there are some devices out there that are over unity but they have not tested any to date that are. Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 11:20:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA09946; Sat, 24 May 1997 11:18:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 11:18:16 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 13:07:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970524130725_69948855@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: Tixif@aol.com Subject: Re : Watson/Teamwork Resent-Message-ID: <"QhGFd2.0.YQ2.Y3pXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3202 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 24/05/1997 13:54:19 , you wrote : << Suj : Watson/Teamwork Date : 24/05/1997 13:54:19 From: Tixif@aol.com Resent-from: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Having anticipated Gregs construction plans for weeks, I saw them this morning on Jean-Louis' page. It was about 6 AM and I am ready to start building. I am looking up all my sources for materials at this time and will post local resource suggestions if anyone is interested >> Hi Shawn, You will find the pictures and the video of my SMOT V1.0 device at : http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/smot1jln.htm Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 11:37:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA20835; Sat, 24 May 1997 11:36:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 11:36:51 -0700 Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 13:39:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970524133621.3eafceaa@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: regarding over unity ramp Resent-Message-ID: <"0tGms.0.S55.2LpXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3203 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello all, wouldn't the OU ramp that has been demonstrated qualify for the prise monies offered by groups offering a demo of it. also I beleive even the Sceptics group, (not sure of the name) is offering a nice purse. Once demonstrated and monies claimed, of course could fund further research. just thoughts Mike Slivinski sunbrite@mymail.net http://www.myhomepage.net/~sunbrite/ God helps those, that help themselves... so they may help others! MCS From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 16:17:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA03309; Sat, 24 May 1997 16:15:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 16:15:44 -0700 From: JWGSA@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 18:40:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970524184032_-995459600@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Watson/Teamwork Resent-Message-ID: <"Ah6LL1.0.So.NQtXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3204 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Shawn, I am in San Antonio and pass through Austin now and them. Jack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 16:17:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA03494; Sat, 24 May 1997 16:15:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 16:15:59 -0700 Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 16:30:01 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: diagrams/specs In-Reply-To: <199705241406.KAA06499@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Wk1Os3.0.Pr.cQtXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3205 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 24 May 1997, Science wig. sig. wrote: > > Hey, it could list all of his PATENTED inventions! Just, he did not > patent most of his good ones. They were all in his head. > > I have a list of all the Tesla books around at: > http://frognet.net/~cantino/tesla/tesla.html You might wish to check out the books on Tesla by George Trinkhaus (sp) through High Voltage Press. Those books cover some of his less well known work. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 16:18:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA03740; Sat, 24 May 1997 16:16:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 16:16:34 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 18:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970524182549_55381434@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork Resent-Message-ID: <"8wbJ52.0.1v._QtXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3206 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Could you give the the web address of Jean-Louis so I could see the drawings? Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 17:46:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA26766; Sat, 24 May 1997 17:45:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 17:45:46 -0700 Message-ID: <33878B39.B91@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:43:37 -0400 From: David DeLeo Reply-To: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork References: <970524182549_55381434@emout13.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OeKJf.0.1Y6.ukuXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3207 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Could you give the the web address of Jean-Louis so I could see the drawings? > Thanks, Butch LaFonte The address for Jean-Louis's overunity site is: http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm Dave DeLeo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 17:52:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA27636; Sat, 24 May 1997 17:51:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 17:51:34 -0700 Message-ID: <33878C87.61E0@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:49:11 -0400 From: Dave DeLeo Reply-To: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnets for simple OU Toy References: <01BC682B.73268D00@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UpAr02.0.cl6.LquXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3208 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Has anyone found a good supplier for magnets.... I have been using radio shack ceramics for my ramps but they are not the same size as in the plans. Also they are expensive and the plans recommend 64 per ramp, I have been using about 16 per ramp. Edmund Scientific didn't have any in 4x10x13mm at least not in the catalog I have (1996-97 optics and optical instruments catalog). I would like to build this as soon as possible so if someone could help me get my hands on these I would appreciate it. Dave DeLeo ddeleo@ix.netcom.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 18:44:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA29683; Sat, 24 May 1997 10:27:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 10:27:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 09:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705241605.JAA16252@germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Simple OU Toy Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"vcowq2.0.ME7.fEoXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3199 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > >The plans for the Phase 1 device will be out by mid week, maybe sooner. > >I have e-mailed the original drawings to Jean-Louis. > >Build a ramp and gives us some feedback on reducing friction. I have >found that friction is a MAJOR source of energy loss and the biggest >cause of unreliable / unstable operation. > Hi Greg, The plans for the Phase 1 device looks complete. Jean-Louis did a great job of drawing them up and posting the plans at his site: http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm Thanks Greg and Jean-Louis! With this kind of detailed information the probability of successful duplication should increase. A list of suppliers would be needed next. And then those that are "skilled in the art" can assemble a unit for sale for people that don't have the time to build one but would still like to experiment with. Looking forward to the next Phases! Best Regards, Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 20:03:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA10907; Sat, 24 May 1997 20:03:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:03:32 -0700 Message-ID: <3387AB67.5F2@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 23:00:55 -0400 From: Dave DeLeo Reply-To: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Watson/Teamwork References: <970524085129_-397686377@emout01.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wjhai3.0.Eg2.3mwXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3209 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tixif@aol.com wrote: >And those on the list might consider the same for their local > area. > You guys are amazing! > Shawn Maybe we can use IRC so that we can discuss things in real time. Might be more productive than email... Just something to consider, Dave DeLeo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 20:32:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA00116; Sat, 24 May 1997 20:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705250319.UAA13112@ganymede.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Score Resent-Message-ID: <"r76qb1.0.g1.90xXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3210 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Got it working Couldn't get it working Phase I 2 0 Phase II Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /********************************************************/ /* I don't think that energy is conserved, but it */ /* doesn't matter if useful over-unity operation works! */ /********************************************************/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 20:53:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA19484; Sat, 24 May 1997 20:53:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:53:32 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: eric@voicenet.com Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:44:19 PST Subject: Re: O/U Device & Gary Effect Message-ID: <19970314.204412.11582.0.tv@juno.com> References: <199705240447.AAA19656@mail3.voicenet.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,11-48 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"F8FEi2.0.Lm4.xUxXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3213 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Eric, I posted the Wesley Gary documents on a web page at < http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810 > It is from the orginal article of 1879. Tim ( tv@juno.com ) On Sat, 24 May 97 00:42:47 -0500 Eric Krieg -voicenet writes: >Could you please write me up a paragraph to post on the work of Wesley >Gary >to post on my PM FE history page? > >http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/dennis4.html > >eric >-------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > >Date: Sunday, 02-Mar-97 08:00 PM > >From: Tim D Vaughan \ Internet: (tv@juno.com) >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com \ Internet: (vortex-l@eskimo.com) >cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com \ Internet: (freenrg-l@eskimo.com) > >Subject: O/U Device & Gary Effect > >Since Mr. Watson's device is apparently based on the same principle as >that >of Wesley Gary (1874), is it not reasonable to re-examine this >remarkable >but ignored invention from the 19th centrury ? Even though the >inventions >of Wesley Gary and Greg Watson generate only flee power, they should >not be >dismissed as just toys. The GARY EFFECT (or Gary-Watson Effect) can >certtainly be enhanced to any level of power when it is better >understood. > >Consider the invention of Hans Coler as a possible example of such >advancement. > >I think Beatty's electronic think-tank is working ! > >Tim Vaughan >(tv@juno.com) > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 21:00:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA20336; Sat, 24 May 1997 21:00:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:00:31 -0700 Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:00:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705250400.VAA13781@ganymede.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Re: Magnets for simple OU Toy Resent-Message-ID: <"zyoE53.0.bz4.TbxXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3214 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Has anyone found a good supplier for magnets.... > >I have been using radio shack ceramics for my ramps but they are not the >same size as in the plans. Also they are expensive and the plans >recommend 64 per ramp, I have been using about 16 per ramp. Edmund >Scientific didn't have any in 4x10x13mm at least not in the catalog I >have (1996-97 optics and optical instruments catalog). I would like to >build this as soon as possible so if someone could help me get my hands >on these I would appreciate it. > >Dave DeLeo >ddeleo@ix.netcom.com > Edmund Scientific has a thinner catalog with more educational stuff and twice as many magnets. The section of ceramic magnets has many sizes and package prices ( e.g. 30ea. for $15 ). Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /********************************************************/ /* I don't think that energy is conserved, but it */ /* doesn't matter if useful over-unity operation works! */ /********************************************************/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 21:03:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA04911; Sat, 24 May 1997 20:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:51:40 -0700 (PDT) From: tim.vaughan@trex.ccc-infonet.edu (Tim Vaughan) Subject: Watson's Amazing (re)Discovery Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 03:50:07 GMT Message-Id: <864532207@trex.ccc-infonet.edu> Organization: Yosemite Community College District To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"xixK52.0.dC1.4TxXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3211 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks Greg for making this available for all of us play with !! So simple, yet so profound ! The Simple Overunity Toy is demonstrating a very interesting phenomena. Ferromagnetism probably has the inherent ability to cohere or organize fluctuation energy. But whatever is making the ball go round the track can be scaled up in a different form to produce large amounts of energy like Hans Coler did in 1930's in Germany. Let us not let Greg Watson's rediscovery of this important principle be ignored like it was in 1879 with Wesley Gary's device. History is in the making here ! Please keep posting your observations on the freenrg-l as it becomes available to all and is recorded for posterity. Thanks to Jean-Louis Naudin for the excellent web page describing it with great drawing, pictures, and a video: < http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/smot1.htm > Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 21:06:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA05240; Sat, 24 May 1997 20:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705250351.UAA05459@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork Resent-Message-ID: <"bkgKc2.0.gH1.AVxXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3212 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis, Nice video and photo's of your Phase 1 unit! I see that your unit also worked with different magnets. Can you describe your unit like: - What was the lenght and size of the aluminum(?) ramp, and height at the end point? - Size of your magnets and steel ball used? - Does the ball exit at the same level as the entry level? - At end drop did the ball roll away? This would help others in designing their units with more choices from available material sources. Best Regards, Michael Randall At 01:07 PM 5/24/97 -0400, you wrote: >On 24/05/1997 13:54:19 , you wrote : > ><< Suj : Watson/Teamwork > Date : 24/05/1997 13:54:19 > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 21:15:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA22011; Sat, 24 May 1997 21:15:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:15:20 -0700 Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:15:47 -0600 From: Shane Hall Subject: Re: diagrams/specs To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-id: <3387BCF2.870D758E@mail.it.sait.ab.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199705241406.KAA06499@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Resent-Message-ID: <"X-Gru2.0.qN5.NpxXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3215 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi everyone, I think we'd all be interested in Nikola's free energy machine. The Cosmic Ray Collector! Does anyone have any info on it? I've only heard rumors of it. ScHall Science wig. sig. wrote: > Hey, it could list all of his PATENTED inventions! Just, he did not > patent most of his good ones. They were all in his head. > > I have a list of all the Tesla books around at: > http://frognet.net/~cantino/tesla/tesla.html > > > > > Evan - > > > > > If you are able to locate drawings/specs for > > > the above devices I would be happy to look at > > > them. > > > > I found drawings but no text in one of those bizarre books by D.H. > > Childress : "The Fantastic Inventions of Nikola Tesla". According to > this > > work, Tesla and Marconi discovered the secret to long life, faked > their > > deaths, and are now living together somewhere down in South America > > building UFOs for the secret world government. Maybe they have a web > site > > by now? Ahem...uh, there's another book out which claims to list > *all* his > > patented inventions, but I don't have it. Compiled by Ratzlaff, $40 > from > > the International Tesla Society. > > > > I could try to scan the pictures from the pages of the book I have > and send > > them, but I'm afraid the details won't come through well enough to > get a > > useful look. Feel like trying that? > > > > Anyone else know if this patent (#382,279) may be found somewhere > online? > > > > - Rick Monteverde > > Honolulu, HI > > > > > > > > -- > +-----Andrew > Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ > | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html > | > | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ > | > + > ---------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > | > | > | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics > | > | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** > | > | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** > | > | > | > + > ---------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 22:16:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA13499; Sat, 24 May 1997 22:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:04:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 00:05:29 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Fwd: Third party testing Resent-Message-ID: <"zHphT3.0.oI3.0XyXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3216 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >--------------------- >Forwarded message: >Subj: Third party testing >Date: 97-05-24 13:01:13 EDT >From: HLafonte >To: newman-l@emachine.com > >Evan, > Do you think Joe would let the Academy For New Energy test the Energy >Machine ? They are " pro overunity " , and I believe they would be objective >in their testing. By " pro overunity " I mean they believe that there are >some devices out there that are over unity but they have not tested any to >date that are. >Butch LaFonte Dear Butch, Well, I staying at home (in New Orleans) "minding the fort" so-to-speak, so I don't honestly know what will transpire tomorrow (Sunday) in Denver. I know that Joe is planning a lecture and workshop to demonstrate the technology. Whether or not ANE has the ability to test and what arrangements they can/will make with Joe -- that will be for them to decide (if they wish)....I do know that a News Conference is planned by ANE on Monday in Denver. Positive announcements would be desirable. For what it's worth (re anyone wishing to reach anyone at the Denver Conference) the main telephone number is: (303) 779-1100. Gyroscopically yours, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "The day when we shall know exactly what electricity is, will chronicle an event probably greater than any other recorded in the human race." --- NIKOLA TESLA From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 22:24:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA31408; Sat, 24 May 1997 22:22:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:22:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3387CAD4.16A0@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:45:00 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Re: Simple OU Toy References: <01BC682B.73268D00@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SzbXT2.0.Rg7.GoyXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3218 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan Quickert wrote: > > Saw the plans for the SMOT late last night on Jean-Louis Naudin's website. > > Immediately reconfigured one of my test rigs to see how the design works. > Length, height of the ramp and the field contour adjustment generally in > concept with the posted design, but used parts on hand - different size > magnets (4mm x 20mm x 25mm), steel bar twice too long, wooden plant pot > labels for spacers. With all that variation from the specs, it worked first > time, with a lift of 18mm. Some previous experience with the ramps > influenced that result, of course. > > Positioned a previously working ramp (of different design) at the new one's > exit (second ramp's entrance at the same elevation as the first ramp's > entrance); the ball ran through both ramps after minor horizontal > adjustment at their linkage point. Good to see they linked so easily. Sometimes ramp linking is tricky. > Will try to get materials to more exactly duplicate the posted design soon. > Meanwhile, I'd say that the plans are good if I can go so far from the > specs and still have it work so well. Of course there's also the > possibility that it wouldn't work without my changes, but from my > experience the differences in my quick mock-up were in the direction away > from optimal. I'd opine that the design works, within a wide margin of > construction variability. > > Dan Quickert Hi Dan, Thanks for the good words. I spent quite a lot of time to design a simple to build ramp which also has inbuilt WIDE margins and is simple to adjust. KISS the best design. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 22:24:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA31520; Sat, 24 May 1997 22:22:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:22:51 -0700 Message-ID: <3387C8B1.4619@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:35:53 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnets for simple OU Toy References: <199705250400.VAA13781@ganymede.compumedia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pWqEA.0.Fi7.foyXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3219 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Becker wrote: > > >Has anyone found a good supplier for magnets.... Hi Scott, The magnets I use are ceramic fridge magnets. Nothing special or flash. They cost me $5 Aust ($3.50 US) for 100 (One Hundred!) at a local JayCar Electronics Store. Would you suggest you call suppliers of fridge magnet products. They have lots of interesting magnetic materials at LOW COST. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 22:38:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA15667; Sat, 24 May 1997 22:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3387CB90.6C8@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:48:08 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: regarding over unity ramp References: <1.5.4.16.19970524133621.3eafceaa@pop.mymail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BhX8R3.0.fq3.goyXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3217 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael C Slivinski wrote: > > Hello all, > wouldn't the OU ramp that has been demonstrated qualify for the prise monies > offered by groups offering a demo of it. also I beleive even the Sceptics > group, (not sure of the name) is offering a nice purse. Once demonstrated > and monies claimed, of course could fund further research. > just thoughts > Mike Slivinski sunbrite@mymail.net Hi Mike, The single SMOT ramp is not clearly OU. You need to finish the Phase 4 device for that. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 22:38:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA15982; Sat, 24 May 1997 22:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3387CC22.61C9@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:50:34 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Toy References: <970524193259_100433.1541_BHG76-1@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6AFDA2.0.cv3.bpyXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3220 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > Dan, > > > With all that variation from the specs, it worked first time, with > > a lift of 18mm. > > Are you saying that you are seeing continuous, unceasing motion in your > implementation of this device? > > I mean, like perpetual motion, like? > > Chris Hi Chris, The single SMOT ramp is not clearly OU. You will need to finish the Phase 4 device for that. But the ramp sure makes you think. Have you built yours yet? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 22:41:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA02359; Sat, 24 May 1997 22:41:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:41:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3387D039.1592@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:08:01 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Score References: <199705250319.UAA13112@ganymede.compumedia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9yYhV2.0.ka.s3zXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3223 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Becker wrote: > > Got it working Couldn't get it working > Phase I 2 0 > Phase II > > Scott Becker > skot@compumedia.com Hi Scott, Does that mean you have now BUILT two SMOT ramps and they BOTH work? If so, excellent work. If not, WHY NOT? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 22:42:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA02456; Sat, 24 May 1997 22:41:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:41:39 -0700 Message-ID: <3387CF6A.763C@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:04:34 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnets for simple OU Toy References: <01BC682B.73268D00@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> <33878C87.61E0@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"T-16L1.0.Dc.H4zXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3224 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave DeLeo wrote: > > Has anyone found a good supplier for magnets.... > > I have been using radio shack ceramics for my ramps but they are not the > same size as in the plans. Also they are expensive and the plans > recommend 64 per ramp, I have been using about 16 per ramp. Edmund > Scientific didn't have any in 4x10x13mm at least not in the catalog I > have (1996-97 optics and optical instruments catalog). I would like to > build this as soon as possible so if someone could help me get my hands > on these I would appreciate it. > > Dave DeLeo Hi Dave, You can use different size magnets. The only problem is the ramp length is designed for the mag field produced by the magnet arrays being 104mm long. If you alter the length of the arrays, you will have to alter the length of the ramp. The magnet arrays should be 13-15mm longer than the ramp. This allows for max energy transfer to the ball as it climbs the ramp and puts the exit point in the "sweet spot" at the end of the ramp's mag field. By the way, my magnets are ceramic fridge magnets and they cost me $5 ($3.50 US) for 100 (One Hundred). Nothing fancy, just cheap and easy to use to build different size arrays. Best Regards. Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 22:44:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA16931; Sat, 24 May 1997 22:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3387CD7C.607C@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:56:20 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork References: <970524182549_55381434@emout13.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"M4KEU1.0.K84.1wyXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3221 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Could you give the the web address of Jean-Louis so I could see the drawings? > Thanks, Butch LaFonte Hi Butch, Its at : http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/smot1.htm Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 22:47:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA17250; Sat, 24 May 1997 22:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3387CD18.1C47@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:54:40 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Crude Success References: <970524105239_-1130233143@emout06.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"O-j-H2.0.ID4.KzyXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3222 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tixif@aol.com wrote: > > Since my local hobby store wasn't open yet, I' had to play with the materials > I have: > 1. Track made from 2 notebook binders space ~13mm apart. > 2. Binder edges resting on a calculator ~10mm thick for the rise of the > ramp. > 3. A mouse track ball still with the rubber grip insulation around it (high > friction!) > 4. A pushpin to keep the ball from rolling back down during startup, stuck > into the binders ~66mm from the exit end. > 5. 4 ceramic mags (3/8"X3/4"X1 13/16"). > The ball WILL roll up the ramp and drop out of the field. > Shawn Hi Shawn, Good work. There are many variations possible. The SMOT plans will allow multi ramps to be easily linked. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 23:13:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA07744; Sat, 24 May 1997 23:12:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 23:12:32 -0700 Message-ID: <3387D5C3.761@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:31:39 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: video References: <970524124430_843036541@emout11.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"moUX51.0.vu1.EXzXp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3226 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Greg, > Do you have any video of your ou device working for extended periods of > time? > Butch LaFonte Hi Butch, Of the RMOD (working on the patent) device, Yes (But not for publication yet). Of the SMOT, No. But you will soon have a working device to play with. Started building yet? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 23:19:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA21066; Sat, 24 May 1997 23:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 23:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3387D3D8.3EBF@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:23:28 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: MY HAT'S OFF! References: <33879BCD.54FE@interlaced.net> <3387C6CB.1F69@skypoint.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3264381972D9" Resent-Message-ID: <"vaDQ31.0.g85.YRzXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3225 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3264381972D9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Logajan wrote: > > Francis J. Stenger wrote: > > My hat's off to Greg Watson and Jean-Louis Naudin for a CLEAR-AS-A-BELL > > description of the simple OU toy! > > Greg's simplification of the Hartman device is impressive. > > But allow me to continue to play the doubter. In Jean-Louis Naudin's > stills and AVI animation, the "exit" platform (in black) is obviously > lower than the start position on the raised rails. Therefore there > is yet no anomaly apparent when the ball rolls off-frame in the > animated AVI on the black exit platform. (The ball has effectively > fallen to a lower gravitational potential, which fully explains > its "pull" though the magentic "bump" and its gain in kinetic > energy.) > > -- > - John Logajan -- jlogajan@skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - Hi John, The SMOT ramp as designed was not intended to be a class 3 ramp (Roll away). That's tricky to build and adjust. I have posted my theory on how this happens before, but I have attached the Gif again. This design is intended to be a starting point to allow others the chance to build and play with mag ramps. In Phase 2 we will build 4 ramps and link them all together. When you SEE there is NO slow down as the ball moves through the ramps, you will start to BELIEVE where we are going. When we get to Phase 4, the ball WILL go round and round! Have you built your SMOT ramp yet? By the way, I can't get into Jean-Louis's server to look at his pictures. Seems to be very busy!!!!!! 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+0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, JNaudin509@aol.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT v1.0 - TESTS PASSED References: <970524114826_1889007739@emout12.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"s8rdn2.0.5a5.vezXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3227 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > Today, I have built and tested SUCCESSFULLY your SMOT v1.0. > You will find some pictures and a video ( AVI ) of my experiment. > No measurement has been made, today. > > I have updated my web site with this pictures and video at : > http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/smot1jln.htm > > Sincerely, > > Jean-Louis Naudin Hi Jean-Louis, Thanks for the excellent work. I can't get into your server. Seems a lot of people are interested. That's really good. Hope the server survives. I am still trying to get photos of MY unit to post. Phase 2 is next. We will need to build and link 4 ramps together and show all the doubters that the ball doesn't slow down as it moves through the ramps. That's when EVERYONE will start jumping up a down as it will then be very clear that a linked loop will work. Phase 3 will see a curved (45 deg) ramp. Tricker to adjust, but after building and linking 4 ramps, not too hard. Phase 4 will link 8 x 45 deg ramps and its all over except for the shouting match and fighting over how and why it works and who was and wasn't wrong. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 23:44:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA24654; Sat, 24 May 1997 23:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 23:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 23:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705250631.XAA16335@ganymede.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Re: Score Resent-Message-ID: <"MwXX93.0.716.gqzXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3228 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Scott Becker wrote: >> >> Got it working Couldn't get it working >> Phase I 2 0 >> Phase II >> >> Scott Becker >> skot@compumedia.com > >Hi Scott, > >Does that mean you have now BUILT two SMOT ramps and they BOTH work? > >If so, excellent work. > >If not, WHY NOT? > > >Best Regards, > Greg > > Actually I was counting the number of people who succeeded in building phase one ( two for two is really good for the first twelve hours ). If we get through phase 4 and still have a majority of success then not only will your plan designing skills be established but also over-unity operation will be undeniably proven ( some will always deny it ). Next will be the argument about where the energy is coming from: is energy not really conserved or is it coming from the aether. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't really matter. As long as we can build usable power! Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /********************************************************/ /* I don't think that energy is conserved, but it */ /* doesn't matter if useful over-unity operation works! */ /********************************************************/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 24 23:48:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA25922; Sat, 24 May 1997 23:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 23:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3387DC80.7B44@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 16:00:24 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: MY HAT'S OFF! References: <33879BCD.54FE@interlaced.net> <3387D559.58E45F66@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sqjSx2.0.xK6.luzXp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3229 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hamdi Ucar wrote: > > Francis J. Stenger wrote: > > > > My hat's off to Greg Watson and Jean-Louis Naudin for a CLEAR-AS-A-BELL > > description of the simple OU toy! It's refreshing to see such an > > HONEST EFFORT TO COMMUNICATE where an OU device is involved. Greg knows > > I tend to be a skeptic in this area, but he may be about ready to make > > me eat my shorts(from the dirty bag - not clean!)! Keep up the GOOD and > > HONEST work! (Thanks for not making me study a patent!!) > > > > Frank Stenger > > Warning! There is trick on this SMOT!: > > The device may work anyway with or without exhibiting OU. The trick is > that is very difficult to test it whether it is working in a OU mode or > not. > > I believe that this issue is known well by Greg Watson, but anybody will > not be aware of this and unconditionally they might believe that their > own build device is an OU. And the problem may rise when a third party > proof it is not. > > Criteria is already explained by Greg Watson by the letter: > > Re: Simple OU Toy > Resent-Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 01:27:42 -0700 (PDT) > Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:50:12 +0930 > From: Greg Watson > Organization: Greg Watson Consulting > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > > For the OU effect ball will exit with enough energy for getting free > from magnetic attraction. The bonus will be the self staring energy plus > the final energy at the exit remaing after freeing from attractions of > magnets. > Simply dropping from the ramp is not sign the OU! I agree fully. AND I have stated this before. > As summary, gravitational + magnetic potential energy on the ball must > be higher on the exit. Less the magnetic attaction is more the magnetic > potentional energy. > > Regards, > > Hamdi Ucar > > Everybody should know it! Hi Hamdi, The Phase 1 SMOT device is not clearly OU. It is not designed to be so. After we finish with Phase 4 (linking 4 ramps) and ALL can see the ball doesn't slow down while moving through the ramps, however the final destination will seem VERY clear. Have you started building your Phase 1 SMOT device yet? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 00:23:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA00495 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 25 May 1997 00:23:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 00:23:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: postmaster@bt.net Sun May 25 00:23:36 1997 Received: from relay.bt.net (relay.bt.net [194.72.6.52]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA00416 for ; Sun, 25 May 1997 00:23:09 -0700 (PDT) From: postmaster@bt.net Received: from bt.net by relay.bt.net id ; Sun, 25 May 1997 08:21:33 +0100 X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=BTNet/ADMD=BT/C=GB/;relay.bt.net:268330:970525072116] To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Subject: Delivery Report (failure) for julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk Message-Type: Delivery Report Old-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 08:21:33 +0100 Message-ID: <"relay.bt.net:268330:970525072116"@bt.net> Content-Identifier: freenrg-diges... X-Diagnostic: Mail to julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk bounced 2 times X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: ------------------------------ Start of body part 1 This report relates to your message: Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #176, Message-ID: <199705250524.WAA31810@mx1.eskimo.com>, To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com of Sun, 25 May 1997 06:34:08 +0100 Your message was not delivered to julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk for the following reason: Unknown Address MTA 'torran.almac.co.uk' gives error message ... User unknown ***** The following information is directed towards the local administrator ***** and is not intended for the end user * * DR generated by: mta BT.NET * in /PRMD=BTNet/ADMD=BT/C=GB/ * at Sun, 25 May 1997 08:21:16 +0100 * * Converted to RFC 822 at bt.net at Sun, 25 May 1997 08:21:33 +0100 * * Delivery Report Contents: * * Subject-Submission-Identifier: [/PRMD=BTNet/ADMD=BT/C=GB/;<199705250524.WAA31810@mx1.eskim] * Content-Identifier: freenrg-diges... * Original-Encoded-Information-Types: ia5-text * Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=BTNet/ADMD=BT/C=GB/arrival Sun, 25 May 1997 06:34:08 +0100 action Relayed * Content-Correlator: Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #176, * Message-ID: <199705250524.WAA31810@mx1.eskimo.com>, * To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com* Recipient-Info: julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk, * /RFC-822=julian.mallett(a)torran.almac.co.uk/O=BTnet/PRMD=BTNet/ADMD=BT/C=GB/; * FAILURE reason Unable-To-Transfer (1); * diagnostic Unrecognised-ORName (0); * last trace (ia5-text) Sun, 25 May 1997 06:34:08 +0100; * converted eits ia5-text; * supplementary info "MTA 'torran.almac.co.uk' gives error * message ... User unknown"; ****** End of administration information ------------------------------ Start of forwarded message 1 Received: from mx1.eskimo.com by relay.bt.net with SMTP (PP); Sun, 25 May 1997 06:34:17 +0100 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA31810; Sat, 24 May 1997 22:24:48 -0700 Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:24:48 -0700 From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199705250524.WAA31810@mx1.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #176 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/176 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com - ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain freenrg-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 176 Today's Topics: Re: Simple OU Toy The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated Re: Simple OU Toy Re: Comments from Weird Science (fwd) Looking for the lost magnetism Unidentified subject! Re: diagrams/specs Re: Comments from Weird Science (fwd) Watson/Teamwork Re: diagrams/specs Crude Success video RE: Simple OU Toy Fwd: Third party testing Re : Watson/Teamwork Re: regarding over unity ramp Re: Watson/Teamwork Re: diagrams/specs Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork Magnets for simple OU Toy Re: Simple OU Toy Re: Watson/Teamwork Score Re: O/U Device & Gary Effect Re: Magnets for simple OU Toy Watson's Amazing (re)Discovery Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork Re: diagrams/specs Re: Fwd: Third party testing - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 07:06:20 +0930 From: Greg Watson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Toy Message-ID: <33860DD4.37A3@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Greg - > > > With graphite! > > That's lubrication. I mean *polish* the rails. Very fine abrasives in > stages arriving at a mirror flat edge surface where the surface of the ball > rides. There should be no rumbling or other rough sound as the balls travel > on the raceways. If those rails have their edges flattened nicely, there > should be almost no significant sound from it at all except where there's > impact from a falling ball off the end of a ramp, and it shouldn't even > need lube. Not necessary I suppose with the SMOT if it works; working at > all is the thing. I run the side of a pencil over the side of the Alum "U" channel. Seems to remove most small bumps and dents. The graphite stays on the rails and provides dry lubrication. You are right, noise is wasted energy. My first stage SMOT is fairly quiet. > But wouldn't it be fun or useful to eliminate as much friction as possible > to see what the system will do - like accelerate a bit over the first few > revolutions? The initial SMOT devices are NOT rotary. That will happen later as you learn the characteristics of mag ramps. One small step at a time. > Does your RMOD accelerate a bit from a minimal initial starting push? My current RMOD plexi-glass unit is under continual torque. It self starts. The SMOT device does accelerate as it starts to climd the ramp. It will self start as well. > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI Hi Rick, The plans for the Phase 1 device will be out by mid week, maybe sooner. I have e-mailed the original drawings to Jean-Louis. Build a ramp and gives us some feedback on reducing friction. I have found that friction is a MAJOR source of energy loss and the biggest cause of unreliable / unstable operation. I have responded to both mail groups in this corro. That will be my standard reply unless you request your corro to be kept private. I am doing this to ensure we all get the benefit of all of our input and ideas. Best regards, Greg - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:42:59 -0800 From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ Most New Data Files are at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT All the revisions are in the file: http://www.padrak.com/ine/REVISIONS.html - ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions - ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ May 23, 1997 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 5, No. 1, May 1997 Promotion By Destruction - On Cold Fusion The New Energy Spectrum Fusion Briefings: Playing The Lose-Lose Game Gene Mallove In The News R&D Magazine Looks At Cold Fusion Einstein Would Have Called It "Cold Fission" New Patterson-Cravens Patent Finnish Gravity Research Summary in Nexus What Are Characteristics Of The Aether? Electrostatics Newsletter Apologies To Dr. Bockris Letter Letter From Don Kelly on Advanced Energy Projects Letter From Steve Smith Regarding P&F and Cold Fusion Added: Steven Mark's Device: Known Data from AU Orgone Energy Seminars Offered in Aug. 1997 Joseph Newman's Electric Lift Device Experiment A Compilation of Anti-Gravity Articles And References New Plasmiod Pictures and sites from Edward Lewis His new web site, new ELEWIS9 pictures link, and a new link (moved) for his ELEWIS8 page. Updated: Fabulous Facts File, Websites, People, Organizations, etc. Site Counter = 106,547 ! More than some other "adult sites"! HAPPY 4TH ISNE! (I hope someone demos something useful...) - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:41:55 -1000 From: Rick Monteverde To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Toy Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greg - > Build a ramp and gives us some feedback on > reducing friction. I have found that friction > is a MAJOR source of energy loss and the > biggest cause of unreliable / unstable > operation. I'm in. > > I have responded to both mail groups in this > corro. That will be my standard reply > unless you request your corro to be kept > private. I am doing this to ensure we all get > the benefit of all of our input and ideas. Cool. I thought I *was* on list, until after I sent my reply I saw the reply button had resulted in an offlist message. - - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 22:30:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Rusi To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Comments from Weird Science (fwd) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Wed, 21 May 1997, William Beaty wrote: > see below >=20 > .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,...........................= =2E. > William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 > EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~bill= b/ > Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page >=20 >=20 > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 07:20:29 -0700 > From: Arlen > To: billb@eskimo.com > Subject: Comments from Weird Science >=20 > --- category --- > ok >=20 > --- comments --- > \TROMBLY\ MAY 16, 1997 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, GLOBAL PEACE PROJECT,add= ressing OUR GLOBAL ENVIRONMENTAL EMERGENCY, PROBLEMS AND SOLUTIONSContact: = David Crockett Williams, Santa Barbara Coordinator, 805-961-2701Addressing= Our Global Environmental Emergency which threatens all Life on Earth, Adam= Trombly is giving his first radio interview in three years on this Sunday,= May 18th, from 9PM to midnight, locally on KTMS and nationally via Jeff Re= nse's syndicated radio show which can be accessed with sound card by intern= et at his web page . Trombly is a physicist and clim= atologist at The Institute for Advanced Studies in Aspen, Colorado, which h= e founded with Buckminster Fuller. Adam Trombly is an internationally ackn= owledged expert in the fields of Physics, Atmospheric Dynamics, Geophysics,= Rotating and Resonating Electromagnetic Systems, and Environmental Global = Modeling. Taking the advice of his friend and mentor, R. Buckminster Fulle= r, Adam has maintained a "synergistic, global view" within a multi-discipli= nary scientific background. From this perspective Adam offers unique insig= hts into the changes humankind has affected on our environment, and the adj= ustments our future requires of us now.With other physicists at NASA, by th= e late 1970's, Trombly became aware of what is now known as the zero-point = energy field from anomalous planetary energy measurements. While then cons= idering the potential of tapping this energy field, inherent in three dimen= sional space itself, with a new alternative zero-point energy technology, h= e became aware of the "n-Machine" experiments done in Santa Barbara by Bruc= e DePalma in 1979. Recognizing that this was a zero-point device, he applie= d himself to the principle and shortly developed an improved configuration = called the "closed path homopolar generator" and disclosed full details in = an international patent which has inspired subsequent proof-of-concept arou= nd the world. Trombly's name, along with Bruce DePalma, Edgar Mitchell, an= d George Ainsworth-Land, appeared in a July 1981 Satellite News article pre= dicting use of this generator in satellites. In 1985, Dr. Yonas, the Chief= Scientist for the Strategic Defense Initiative, testified in US Congressio= nal budget hearings that this technology (the "homopolar" generator as Mich= ael Faraday called it in 1831) was a "critical technology" for the Strategi= c Defense Initiative ("Star Wars" weapons). In subsequent years evidence i= ndicates that this technology is in place in orbiting "rail gun" military s= atellites. Trombly for some time was under a Federal Court gag order not t= o talk about this technology after he found it under covert development for= US submarine propulsion. Risking and surviving assasination attempts to s= hut him up, Adam has courageously decided (after several years hermetic lif= estyle) to come once again to the forefront of public presentation of infor= mation regarding the seriousness of our global environmental crisis and how= this new technology can help save our planet.We are calling for the immedi= ate establishment of a GLOBAL ENVIRONMENTAL EMERGENCY RESPONSE PLAN AND TEA= M to implement solutions to this crisis. Adam has adjusted his schedule to = come to Santa Barbara to take part in our June 1 briefing for the science a= dvisor to His Holiness Dalai Lama, and has been invited to be one of the ke= y participants in the Public Briefing on these matters June 2, 7PM, at UCSB= Chem 1179, along with Brian O'Leary, former science & energy policy adviso= r to four US Presidential candidates and author of a book about these zero-= point "free energy technologies" called "Miracle in The Void", and with inv= estigative journalist Jeane Manning, author of "The Coming Energy Revolutio= n".For more details check out websites for Trombly at , Bruce DePalma at , & O'Leary The United States, through a 1952 Secrecy Order obtained under the Freedo= m of Information Act, has been suppressing the public development of this c= ritical technology in the US. However, Japan is putting millions of dollar= s into its development and negotiations are now under way, if the US policy= doesn't change, to build a $2.5 billion manufacturing plant in Germany to = produce a state-of-the-art home unit to allow individual homes to disconnec= t from utility power grids. Larger devices are also possible such as ones = to replace the electricity output of the three coal-fired electric power pl= ants in the Four Corners area which reportedly produce more acid rain pollu= tions than the top five US cities combined, and whose coal strip-mining is = the root of the genocidal US policy of the continuing forced removal of the= native American people on Arizona'a Black Mesa where Big Mountain is locat= ed. --RAA29329.864000851/coyote.rain.org--=20 >=20 > --- money --- > yes donate 5.00 >=20 > --- money2 --- > $10.00 >=20 >=20 does anyone know how this homopolar generator works? This is a real technology. I am bummed that four corners might close, it's cooling pond is a destination windsurfing site. - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:41:30 +0300 From: Lev Robert To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Looking for the lost magnetism Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970523194130.0068f650@multinet.net.il> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all I have read recently that an old Indian Emperor named ASHOKA ordered his scientist to enclosed everything they knew in a book. The name of this book was "Nine unknown Men". One of the books was called "The Secrets of Gravitation". So if someone could find this book all our magnetic and gravity problems would be solved. Anyone heard about the books??? Robert BUSHILEV - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:03:02 -0700 From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Cc: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Unidentified subject! Message-ID: <01BC67D5.DD783970@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> Greg Watson wrote: >Build a ramp and gives us some feedback on reducing friction. I have >found that friction is a MAJOR source of energy loss and the biggest >cause of unreliable / unstable operation. Might there be one point where friction could be an aid? Just at the edge where the ball is about to fall off the end of the ramp, a *tiny* point of friction to brake the forward momentum, its angular momentum (because it's been spinning) carrying it over the edge? Dan Quickert dequickert@ucdavis.edu (916) 756-0575 - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 22:54:41 -1000 From: Rick Monteverde To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: diagrams/specs Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Evan - > If you are able to locate drawings/specs for > the above devices I would be happy to look at > them. I found drawings but no text in one of those bizarre books by D.H. Childress : "The Fantastic Inventions of Nikola Tesla". According to this work, Tesla and Marconi discovered the secret to long life, faked their deaths, and are now living together somewhere down in South America building UFOs for the secret world government. Maybe they have a web site by now? Ahem...uh, there's another book out which claims to list *all* his patented inventions, but I don't have it. Compiled by Ratzlaff, $40 from the International Tesla Society. I could try to scan the pictures from the pages of the book I have and send them, but I'm afraid the details won't come through well enough to get a useful look. Feel like trying that? Anyone else know if this patent (#382,279) may be found somewhere online? - - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 23:16:16 -1000 From: Rick Monteverde To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Comments from Weird Science (fwd) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Toni Rusi wrote: > does anyone know how this homopolar > generator works? This is a real technology. I > am bummed that four corners might close, > it's cooling pond is a destination windsurfing > site. Windsurfing works for me, but I don't think any homopolars have been shown to be overunity. And Trombly was not listed on the "Sightings on Radio" web site as having been on the radio on the May 18th, or any other radio show. - - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 08:51:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Tixif@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Watson/Teamwork Message-ID: <970524085129_-397686377@emout01.mail.aol.com> Having anticipated Gregs construction plans for weeks, I saw them this morning on Jean-Louis' page. It was about 6 AM and I am ready to start building. I am looking up all my sources for materials at this time and will post local resource suggestions if anyone is interested. In addition, anyone in the Austin area that would like to put their heads together is welcome to contact me. And those on the list might consider the same for their local area. You guys are amazing! Shawn - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 10:06:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Science wig. sig." To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: diagrams/specs Message-Id: <199705241406.KAA06499@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text Hey, it could list all of his PATENTED inventions! Just, he did not patent most of his good ones. They were all in his head. I have a list of all the Tesla books around at: http://frognet.net/~cantino/tesla/tesla.html > > Evan - > > > If you are able to locate drawings/specs for > > the above devices I would be happy to look at > > them. > > I found drawings but no text in one of those bizarre books by D.H. > Childress : "The Fantastic Inventions of Nikola Tesla". According to this > work, Tesla and Marconi discovered the secret to long life, faked their > deaths, and are now living together somewhere down in South America > building UFOs for the secret world government. Maybe they have a web site > by now? Ahem...uh, there's another book out which claims to list *all* his > patented inventions, but I don't have it. Compiled by Ratzlaff, $40 from > the International Tesla Society. > > I could try to scan the pictures from the pages of the book I have and send > them, but I'm afraid the details won't come through well enough to get a > useful look. Feel like trying that? > > Anyone else know if this patent (#382,279) may be found somewhere online? > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > > - -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 10:52:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Tixif@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Crude Success Message-ID: <970524105239_-1130233143@emout06.mail.aol.com> Since my local hobby store wasn't open yet, I' had to play with the materials I have: 1. Track made from 2 notebook binders space ~13mm apart. 2. Binder edges resting on a calculator ~10mm thick for the rise of the ramp. 3. A mouse track ball still with the rubber grip insulation around it (high friction!) 4. A pushpin to keep the ball from rolling back down during startup, stuck into the binders ~66mm from the exit end. 5. 4 ceramic mags (3/8"X3/4"X1 13/16"). The ball WILL roll up the ramp and drop out of the field. Shawn - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 12:44:32 -0400 (EDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: video Message-ID: <970524124430_843036541@emout11.mail.aol.com> Greg, Do you have any video of your ou device working for extended periods of time? Butch LaFonte - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 10:15:38 -0700 From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Cc: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Simple OU Toy Message-ID: <01BC682B.73268D00@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> Saw the plans for the SMOT late last night on Jean-Louis Naudin's website. Immediately reconfigured one of my test rigs to see how the design works. Length, height of the ramp and the field contour adjustment generally in concept with the posted design, but used parts on hand - different size magnets (4mm x 20mm x 25mm), steel bar twice too long, wooden plant pot labels for spacers. With all that variation from the specs, it worked first time, with a lift of 18mm. Some previous experience with the ramps influenced that result, of course. Positioned a previously working ramp (of different design) at the new one's exit (second ramp's entrance at the same elevation as the first ramp's entrance); the ball ran through both ramps after minor horizontal adjustment at their linkage point. Will try to get materials to more exactly duplicate the posted design soon. Meanwhile, I'd say that the plans are good if I can go so far from the specs and still have it work so well. Of course there's also the possibility that it wouldn't work without my changes, but from my experience the differences in my quick mock-up were in the direction away from optimal. I'd opine that the design works, within a wide margin of construction variability. Dan Quickert dequickert@ucdavis.edu 916-756-0575 - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 13:02:32 -0400 (EDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Fwd: Third party testing Message-ID: <970524130231_-431223555@emout05.mail.aol.com> - --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Third party testing Date: 97-05-24 13:01:13 EDT From: HLafonte To: newman-l@emachine.com Evan, Do you think Joe would let the Academy For New Energy test the Energy Machine ? They are " pro overunity " , and I believe they would be objective in their testing. By " pro overunity " I mean they believe that there are some devices out there that are over unity but they have not tested any to date that are. Butch LaFonte - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 13:07:26 -0400 (EDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: Tixif@aol.com Subject: Re : Watson/Teamwork Message-ID: <970524130725_69948855@emout20.mail.aol.com> On 24/05/1997 13:54:19 , you wrote : << Suj : Watson/Teamwork Date : 24/05/1997 13:54:19 From: Tixif@aol.com Resent-from: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Having anticipated Gregs construction plans for weeks, I saw them this morning on Jean-Louis' page. It was about 6 AM and I am ready to start building. I am looking up all my sources for materials at this time and will post local resource suggestions if anyone is interested >> Hi Shawn, You will find the pictures and the video of my SMOT V1.0 device at : http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/smot1jln.htm Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 13:39:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Michael C Slivinski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: regarding over unity ramp Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970524133621.3eafceaa@pop.mymail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all, wouldn't the OU ramp that has been demonstrated qualify for the prise monies offered by groups offering a demo of it. also I beleive even the Sceptics group, (not sure of the name) is offering a nice purse. Once demonstrated and monies claimed, of course could fund further research. just thoughts Mike Slivinski sunbrite@mymail.net http://www.myhomepage.net/~sunbrite/ God helps those, that help themselves... so they may help others! MCS - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 18:40:34 -0400 (EDT) From: JWGSA@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Watson/Teamwork Message-ID: <970524184032_-995459600@emout08.mail.aol.com> Shawn, I am in San Antonio and pass through Austin now and them. Jack - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 16:30:01 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: diagrams/specs Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 24 May 1997, Science wig. sig. wrote: > > Hey, it could list all of his PATENTED inventions! Just, he did not > patent most of his good ones. They were all in his head. > > I have a list of all the Tesla books around at: > http://frognet.net/~cantino/tesla/tesla.html You might wish to check out the books on Tesla by George Trinkhaus (sp) through High Voltage Press. Those books cover some of his less well known work. John - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 18:25:51 -0400 (EDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork Message-ID: <970524182549_55381434@emout13.mail.aol.com> Could you give the the web address of Jean-Louis so I could see the drawings? Thanks, Butch LaFonte - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:43:37 -0400 From: David DeLeo To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork Message-ID: <33878B39.B91@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Could you give the the web address of Jean-Louis so I could see the drawings? > Thanks, Butch LaFonte The address for Jean-Louis's overunity site is: http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm Dave DeLeo - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:49:11 -0400 From: Dave DeLeo To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnets for simple OU Toy Message-ID: <33878C87.61E0@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone found a good supplier for magnets.... I have been using radio shack ceramics for my ramps but they are not the same size as in the plans. Also they are expensive and the plans recommend 64 per ramp, I have been using about 16 per ramp. Edmund Scientific didn't have any in 4x10x13mm at least not in the catalog I have (1996-97 optics and optical instruments catalog). I would like to build this as soon as possible so if someone could help me get my hands on these I would appreciate it. Dave DeLeo ddeleo@ix.netcom.com - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 09:05:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Randall To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Toy Message-Id: <199705241605.JAA16252@germany.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greg Watson wrote: > >The plans for the Phase 1 device will be out by mid week, maybe sooner. > >I have e-mailed the original drawings to Jean-Louis. > >Build a ramp and gives us some feedback on reducing friction. I have >found that friction is a MAJOR source of energy loss and the biggest >cause of unreliable / unstable operation. > Hi Greg, The plans for the Phase 1 device looks complete. Jean-Louis did a great job of drawing them up and posting the plans at his site: http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm Thanks Greg and Jean-Louis! With this kind of detailed information the probability of successful duplication should increase. A list of suppliers would be needed next. And then those that are "skilled in the art" can assemble a unit for sale for people that don't have the time to build one but would still like to experiment with. Looking forward to the next Phases! Best Regards, Michael Randall - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 23:00:55 -0400 From: Dave DeLeo To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Watson/Teamwork Message-ID: <3387AB67.5F2@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tixif@aol.com wrote: >And those on the list might consider the same for their local > area. > You guys are amazing! > Shawn Maybe we can use IRC so that we can discuss things in real time. Might be more productive than email... Just something to consider, Dave DeLeo - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:19:19 -0700 (PDT) From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Score Message-Id: <199705250319.UAA13112@ganymede.compumedia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Got it working Couldn't get it working Phase I 2 0 Phase II Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /********************************************************/ /* I don't think that energy is conserved, but it */ /* doesn't matter if useful over-unity operation works! */ /********************************************************/ - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:44:19 PST From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: eric@voicenet.com Subject: Re: O/U Device & Gary Effect Message-ID: <19970314.204412.11582.0.tv@juno.com> Hi Eric, I posted the Wesley Gary documents on a web page at < http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810 > It is from the orginal article of 1879. Tim ( tv@juno.com ) On Sat, 24 May 97 00:42:47 -0500 Eric Krieg -voicenet writes: >Could you please write me up a paragraph to post on the work of Wesley >Gary >to post on my PM FE history page? > >http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/dennis4.html > >eric >-------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > >Date: Sunday, 02-Mar-97 08:00 PM > >From: Tim D Vaughan \ Internet: (tv@juno.com) >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com \ Internet: (vortex-l@eskimo.com) >cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com \ Internet: (freenrg-l@eskimo.com) > >Subject: O/U Device & Gary Effect > >Since Mr. Watson's device is apparently based on the same principle as >that >of Wesley Gary (1874), is it not reasonable to re-examine this >remarkable >but ignored invention from the 19th centrury ? Even though the >inventions >of Wesley Gary and Greg Watson generate only flee power, they should >not be >dismissed as just toys. The GARY EFFECT (or Gary-Watson Effect) can >certtainly be enhanced to any level of power when it is better >understood. > >Consider the invention of Hans Coler as a possible example of such >advancement. > >I think Beatty's electronic think-tank is working ! > >Tim Vaughan >(tv@juno.com) > - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:00:15 -0700 (PDT) From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnets for simple OU Toy Message-Id: <199705250400.VAA13781@ganymede.compumedia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Has anyone found a good supplier for magnets.... > >I have been using radio shack ceramics for my ramps but they are not the >same size as in the plans. Also they are expensive and the plans >recommend 64 per ramp, I have been using about 16 per ramp. Edmund >Scientific didn't have any in 4x10x13mm at least not in the catalog I >have (1996-97 optics and optical instruments catalog). I would like to >build this as soon as possible so if someone could help me get my hands >on these I would appreciate it. > >Dave DeLeo >ddeleo@ix.netcom.com > Edmund Scientific has a thinner catalog with more educational stuff and twice as many magnets. The section of ceramic magnets has many sizes and package prices ( e.g. 30ea. for $15 ). Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /********************************************************/ /* I don't think that energy is conserved, but it */ /* doesn't matter if useful over-unity operation works! */ /********************************************************/ - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 03:50:07 GMT From: tim.vaughan@trex.ccc-infonet.edu (Tim Vaughan) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Watson's Amazing (re)Discovery Message-Id: <864532207@trex.ccc-infonet.edu> Thanks Greg for making this available for all of us play with !! So simple, yet so profound ! The Simple Overunity Toy is demonstrating a very interesting phenomena. Ferromagnetism probably has the inherent ability to cohere or organize fluctuation energy. But whatever is making the ball go round the track can be scaled up in a different form to produce large amounts of energy like Hans Coler did in 1930's in Germany. Let us not let Greg Watson's rediscovery of this important principle be ignored like it was in 1879 with Wesley Gary's device. History is in the making here ! Please keep posting your observations on the freenrg-l as it becomes available to all and is recorded for posterity. Thanks to Jean-Louis Naudin for the excellent web page describing it with great drawing, pictures, and a video: < http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/smot1.htm > Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:51:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Randall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork Message-Id: <199705250351.UAA05459@sweden.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Jean-Louis, Nice video and photo's of your Phase 1 unit! I see that your unit also worked with different magnets. Can you describe your unit like: - - What was the lenght and size of the aluminum(?) ramp, and height at the end point? - - Size of your magnets and steel ball used? - - Does the ball exit at the same level as the entry level? - - At end drop did the ball roll away? This would help others in designing their units with more choices from available material sources. Best Regards, Michael Randall At 01:07 PM 5/24/97 -0400, you wrote: >On 24/05/1997 13:54:19 , you wrote : > ><< Suj : Watson/Teamwork > Date : 24/05/1997 13:54:19 > - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:15:47 -0600 From: Shane Hall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: diagrams/specs Message-id: <3387BCF2.870D758E@mail.it.sait.ab.ca> Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi everyone, I think we'd all be interested in Nikola's free energy machine. The Cosmic Ray Collector! Does anyone have any info on it? I've only heard rumors of it. ScHall Science wig. sig. wrote: > Hey, it could list all of his PATENTED inventions! Just, he did not > patent most of his good ones. They were all in his head. > > I have a list of all the Tesla books around at: > http://frognet.net/~cantino/tesla/tesla.html > > > > > Evan - > > > > > If you are able to locate drawings/specs for > > > the above devices I would be happy to look at > > > them. > > > > I found drawings but no text in one of those bizarre books by D.H. > > Childress : "The Fantastic Inventions of Nikola Tesla". According to > this > > work, Tesla and Marconi discovered the secret to long life, faked > their > > deaths, and are now living together somewhere down in South America > > building UFOs for the secret world government. Maybe they have a web > site > > by now? Ahem...uh, there's another book out which claims to list > *all* his > > patented inventions, but I don't have it. Compiled by Ratzlaff, $40 > from > > the International Tesla Society. > > > > I could try to scan the pictures from the pages of the book I have > and send > > them, but I'm afraid the details won't come through well enough to > get a > > useful look. Feel like trying that? > > > > Anyone else know if this patent (#382,279) may be found somewhere > online? > > > > - Rick Monteverde > > Honolulu, HI > > > > > > > > -- > +-----Andrew > Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ > | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html > | > | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ > | > + > ---------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > | > | > | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics > | > | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** > | > | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** > | > | > | > + > ---------------------------------------------------------------------+ - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 00:05:29 -0600 From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Third party testing Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >--------------------- >Forwarded message: >Subj: Third party testing >Date: 97-05-24 13:01:13 EDT >From: HLafonte >To: newman-l@emachine.com > >Evan, > Do you think Joe would let the Academy For New Energy test the Energy >Machine ? They are " pro overunity " , and I believe they would be objective >in their testing. By " pro overunity " I mean they believe that there are >some devices out there that are over unity but they have not tested any to >date that are. >Butch LaFonte Dear Butch, Well, I staying at home (in New Orleans) "minding the fort" so-to-speak, so I don't honestly know what will transpire tomorrow (Sunday) in Denver. I know that Joe is planning a lecture and workshop to demonstrate the technology. Whether or not ANE has the ability to test and what arrangements they can/will make with Joe -- that will be for them to decide (if they wish)....I do know that a News Conference is planned by ANE on Monday in Denver. Positive announcements would be desirable. For what it's worth (re anyone wishing to reach anyone at the Denver Conference) the main telephone number is: (303) 779-1100. Gyroscopically yours, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "The day when we shall know exactly what electricity is, will chronicle an event probably greater than any other recorded in the human race." --- NIKOLA TESLA - -------------------------------- End of freenrg-digest Digest V97 Issue #176 ******************************************* ------------------------------ End of forwarded message 1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 00:48:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA01255; Sun, 25 May 1997 00:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 00:36:04 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 03:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970525033308_-1431896744@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: mrandall@earthlink.net, gwatson@microtronics.com.au Subject: Re : Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork Resent-Message-ID: <"CdRFV3.0.WJ.Xl-Xp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3230 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 25/05/1997 05:10:10 , Michael Randall wrote : << Hi Jean-Louis, Nice video and photo's of your Phase 1 unit! I see that your unit also worked with different magnets. Can you describe your unit like: - What was the lenght and size of the aluminum(?) ramp, and height at the end point? - Size of your magnets and steel ball used? - Does the ball exit at the same level as the entry level? - At end drop did the ball roll away? This would help others in designing their units with more choices from available material sources. Best Regards, Michael Randall >> Hi Michael, Concerning a source of magnets, I can give you an idea, you can find strong ferrite magnet in cleaning tools for aquarium windows, it made with two strong magnets recovered by a sheet of fiber, you need only to brake it and extract the magnets, pay attention to the polarity of the magnet, magnetic poles must be on the biggest surfaces. I give you my SMOT v1.0 specs, I shall put my own design soon in my web : The size of his magnets is 25x40x10 mm ( for 3$ each ), I have used 2 x 5 magnets for the two ramps, The iron shield size is 20x25x2 mm, length 180 mm, I have use a 20x20 mm square U aluminium channel, and a 25 mm steel ball, The delta of the level between the input and the output is 12 mm. As said Greg in a previous email, this the only first version of the SMOT. The complete O/U setup is the SMOT V 4.0 in closed loop. Today I work on my own design of a closedloop magnetic wheel, using this magnetic regauging principle.....I have some interestings ideas and schemes to share for whose are interested. Overunity yours, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 01:09:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA02561; Sun, 25 May 1997 00:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 00:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3387D9FF.4A6B@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:49:43 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! References: <01BC67D5.DD783970@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4qXka3.0.wd.b3_Xp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3231 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan Quickert wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > >Build a ramp and gives us some feedback on reducing friction. I have > >found that friction is a MAJOR source of energy loss and the biggest > >cause of unreliable / unstable operation. > > Might there be one point where friction could be an aid? Just at the edge > where the ball is about to fall off the end of the ramp, a *tiny* point of > friction to brake the forward momentum, its angular momentum (because it's > been spinning) carrying it over the edge? > > Dan Quickert Hi Dan, You mean like a bur. Good idea, will try it. But it could be tricky to duplicate and I am trying to KISS the whole project. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 01:22:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA03348 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 25 May 1997 01:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:22:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Sun May 25 01:22:08 1997 Received: from orca.microtronics.com.au (root@orca.microtronics.com.au [203.30.55.1]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA03320; Sun, 25 May 1997 01:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppp.microtronics.com.au (ppp0j.microtronics.com.au [203.30.55.109]) by orca.microtronics.com.au (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02007; Sun, 25 May 1997 17:50:22 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <3387F230.6212@microtronics.com.au> Old-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 17:32:56 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Phase 1 Plans (Part 2) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------70CB6E933B0E" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------70CB6E933B0E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Here is part 2. 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2Mu9OMNxtMG2Dfm87du2ZBYnP7yzKBidTbfGBNrBlDuecvyz0FrHdjwn9bnHfNzHfvzHgGxp yhEBADs= --------------70CB6E933B0E-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 01:22:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA19622; Sun, 25 May 1997 01:21:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:21:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3387F2D4.20C7@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 17:35:40 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Phase 1 Plans (Part 4) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4F5833DA5388" Resent-Message-ID: <"xofZt.0.Vo4.DQ_Xp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3233 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. 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RRXYcaGNQQfSiikIGGOlH1NFFDGIT6DFISCvvRRQAE+9IeBmiigAHvRRRTA//9k= --------------2C8D220453A5-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 01:33:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA03316; Sun, 25 May 1997 01:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3387F1C4.25C8@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 17:31:08 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Phase 1 Plans (Part 1) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5CE7549A6DC6" Resent-Message-ID: <"S1hP72.0.Yp.JQ_Xp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3232 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5CE7549A6DC6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Here are the plans for the Phase 1 device. You will need to master building this device before we proced to Phase 2 and link 4 ramps. ------------------------------- The Greg Watson Simple Overunity Toy S.M.O.T Version 1.0 created on 23 May 1997 - drawing by Jean-Louis Naudin Last update 24 May 1997 CONSTRUCTION TIPS : Make magnet spacing adjustment holes (for the straight pins) in the balsa base every 0.5mm from the ALUM "U" channel. Alternate them up and down by 0.5 mm. This helps to reduce the balsa becoming totally destroyed by too many pin holes and aids returning to the same adjustment that worked before. Normally adjustments in 0.5mm increments are fine enough. The Alum "U" channel is NOT fixed to the balsa base. The balse side supports hold it firmly but still allow it to be moved for adjustment or removed for polishing, ect. "Polish" the side rails with a "HARD" lead pencil rubbed on the supporting edges used by the ball until you can feel no bumps. Leave the graphite on the edges. It really helps to reduce frictional losses. Remember "NOISE" is energy lost. The side magnet assys are made up of small 4x10x13mm ceramic fridge magnets. They are superglued togther. The 3x10x104mm steel bar serves as a support for building and helps to even out the magnetic graduations in the ramp. The steel bar should be outside the ramp. If placed on the inside, the field will be weakened as the soft domains will allow the magnets field to return to the other pole too easily. Treat the magnet assys with care, the combined strength is quite high and the assys will suck to each other over quite a distance and as the ferrite material is brittle, you could easily break your magnets. ADJUSTMENTS : RAMP and BALSA SUPPORT BASE : The bend in the 12mm Alum "U" channel should be adjusted for a 12mm clearance from the underside of the end of the ramp. In otherwords, the entry section of another ramp should just fit under the exit of the preceeding. Thats what the notch in the lower balse base piece is for. Once the bend angle is done and the rolling surfaces are polished, fit the channel into the balsa base and slide it up and down until the 20mm section just touches the level table or whatver you are sitting it on. Check that the bottom of the ramp just clears a spare section of channel. If not, sand or otherwise adjust the height of the end of the ramp supports. Now go back and recheck the 20mm section is still on the table. Mark a line on the bottom of the channel inline with the bottom edge of the balsa support base for future reference. It is very important for the end cut off of the ramp to be clean and at right angles to the ramp. It is the exit rails that the ball will use to exit. If the cut is off, the ball on exit will be thrown to one side or the other and a clean exit will be very hard to achieve. MAGNET POSITINING : Top magnet spacing (measured from the inside of the Alum "U" channel (1.5mm wall thickness) is approx 6mm, bottom spacing is approx 10mm. The bottom egde of the magnet assys are in line with the start of the ramp (the hacksaw cut). These spacing will vary with the strength of the magnets you use. As the ball rolls up the ramp, it will "Hit" a end wall. This wall is magnetic and is produces by the quick reduction in the field strength that occurs at the end of the magnet assys. If you slide the magnets down the ramp and release a ball on the 20mm start platform, you should see the ball climb the ramp and then, as it nears the end, quickly be thrown back down the ramp. What you must now do is to slowly move the magnet assys up the ramp until this bounce back point is just over the exit point. If you move the magnets too far up. the ball will be pulled off the end rails and be pulled onto one of the side magnets. There is a balance point where the ball drops over the end and rolls down the end rails, but is gently forced back onto the end rails as it falls. MAGNET VERTICAL POSITIONING : It is IMPORTANT that the vertical centre of the magnet arrays is ABOVE the centre of the steel ball. This helps to reduce rolling friction. Care must be observed as too high a magnet position and the ball will be sucked off the track by any unbalances side to side magnetic forces. I use paper to shim the side magnet assys up and down. The better the side to side balance, the higher the magnets can be moved and the better the whole thing works. GETTING THE BEST RESULTS : Once you have mastered the initial adjustments and can get the ball to climb and drop out every time, you are now into the fun part. BUT first, mark or otherwise record the current settings. Try varying the magnet positioning (top & bottom spacing, position up and down the ramp and vertical centre to centre) to margin your ramp. Vary all the adjustemnts to find the edges where the effect stops. Try this on all the adjustments until you can set the adjustments to optimal (IE in the middle). This margining is necessary to gain a good understanding of ramp characteristics as we will need to vary some of the adjustments when we get into linking 4 or more ramps in Phase 2. This margining is necessary to gain a good understanding of ramp characteristics as we will need to vary some of the adjustments when we get into linking 4 or more ramps in Phase 2. Meanwhile enjoy, experiment and record your results. Please feel free to discuss your problems. If you can post photos, so much the better. Over to you. ---------------------------- Best Regards and Good Luck in CONSTRUCTION Greg --------------5CE7549A6DC6 Content-Type: image/gif; name="smot1a-1.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="smot1a-1.gif" R0lGODdhLwJdAecAAAAAAAEBAQICAgMDAwQEBAUFBQYGBgcHBwgICAkJCQoKCgsLCwwMDA0N DQ4ODg8PDxAQEBERERISEhMTExQUFBUVFRYWFhcXFxgYGBkZGRoaGhsbGxwcHB0dHR4eHh8f HyAgICEhISIiIiMjIyQkJCUlJSYmJicnJygoKCkpKSoqKisrKywsLC0tLS4uLi8vLzAwMDEx MTIyMjMzMzQ0NDU1NTY2Njc3Nzg4ODk5OTo6Ojs7Ozw8PD09PT4+Pj8/P0BAQEFBQUJCQkND Q0REREVFRUZGRkdHR0hISElJSUpKSktLS0xMTE1NTU5OTk9PT1BQUFFRUVJSUlNTU1RUVFVV VVZWVldXV1hYWFlZWVpaWltbW1xcXF1dXV5eXl9fX2BgYGFhYWJiYmNjY2RkZGVlZWZmZmdn Z2hoaGlpaWpqamtra2xsbG1tbW5ubm9vb3BwcHFxcXJycnNzc3R0dHV1dXZ2dnd3d3h4eHl5 eXp6ent7e3x8fH19fX5+fn9/f4CAgIGBgYKCgoODg4SEhIWFhYaGhoeHh4iIiImJiYqKiouL i4yMjI2NjY6Ojo+Pj5CQkJGRkZKSkpOTk5SUlJWVlZaWlpeXl5iYmJmZmZqampubm5ycnJ2d nZ6enp+fn6CgoKGhoaKioqOjo6SkpKWlpaampqenp6ioqKmpqaqqqqurq6ysrK2tra6urq+v 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freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 01:33:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA03425; Sun, 25 May 1997 01:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3387F2A8.4B3D@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 17:34:56 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Phase 1 Plans (Part 3) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------34A8CF73248" Resent-Message-ID: <"bxXUt.0.Nr.-Q_Xp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3234 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------34A8CF73248 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Here are 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eOnKLmMY1zupHCV8j3EOrDRhZYjM+VxeKBUi6XNYYmi3CieD0T6gmN9NcNhbx3Krayz6qIVk lud0b39lUVafe1h3HB6FaIgZZAxzfSFS0kv+K6xdJ9M9zNSS8ENIq1UaX6WPJDcqRPLbDsDo hJqadtbmuSskkpMpLTjtXCmzS6hZx0VMAHmuwOFFF0GfgilV1PzUUQXR8u+ag/XO+SiiJBd+ pHyVVkyC+yiiLTyD0RpCBbMdVFESLv2h8kx/Uf8AUooorLGTv+q3NArjqooo6ZtQBuOAssAz J8wooq5NNjao8DyRhRRRaZ4G0FWtA38dAooqgtA80YHKQgeaoolWI/44h0spmgb+ByoopBVq OR807OAoohVxA8koPHpaoolSKz8R+Sv0gH5qKIoPAOubjohOMhRRRVRxG2v3kHAeY7HVRRWC xvwj5q+h26KKKoOlH6N3zVc3+0j5qKLkg8zi+ypf+vA6Vwoogt5jd/yqiPlvyUUUi1ZF+qk/ 5lVH+tPzUUXSLpvgHzCEJsz2ooi1Uwks5Vg4UUXCgRwniAL332Cii7jirGAerCrbnTvv94qK IsK8ei/ZNEAW8KKKxH//2Q== --------------34A8CF73248-- From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 01:41:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA23883 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 25 May 1997 01:41:46 -0700 Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:41:46 -0700 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Sun May 25 01:41:45 1997 Received: from localhost (localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with internal id BAA20093; Sun, 25 May 1997 01:41:45 -0700 Old-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:41:45 -0700 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199705250841.BAA20093@mx1.eskimo.com> To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="BAA20093.864549705/mx1.eskimo.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk bounced 3 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --BAA20093.864549705/mx1.eskimo.com The original message was received at Sun, 25 May 1997 01:22:56 -0700 from smartlst@localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to post.almac.co.uk.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk... User unknown --BAA20093.864549705/mx1.eskimo.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; mx1.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:22:56 -0700 Final-Recipient: rfc822; julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: dns; post.almac.co.uk Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 ... User unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:23:56 -0700 --BAA20093.864549705/mx1.eskimo.com Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA20039; Sun, 25 May 1997 01:22:56 -0700 Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:22:56 -0700 From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199705250822.BAA20039@mx1.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #178 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/178 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --BAA20093.864549705/mx1.eskimo.com-- From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 01:44:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA24126 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 25 May 1997 01:44:10 -0700 Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:44:10 -0700 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Sun May 25 01:44:08 1997 Received: from localhost (localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with internal id BAA19898; Sun, 25 May 1997 01:44:08 -0700 Old-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:44:08 -0700 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199705250844.BAA19898@mx1.eskimo.com> To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="BAA19898.864549848/mx1.eskimo.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk bounced 4 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 4 X-Diagnostic: Removed: julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk 32760 X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --BAA19898.864549848/mx1.eskimo.com The original message was received at Sun, 25 May 1997 01:22:10 -0700 from smartlst@localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 451 meier.landis@lshp1.fastnet.ch... timeout waiting for input during client greeting 451 meier.landis@lshp1.fastnet.ch... reply: read error from lshp1.fastnet.ch. ... while talking to post.almac.co.uk.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk... User unknown --BAA19898.864549848/mx1.eskimo.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; mx1.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:22:10 -0700 Final-Recipient: rfc822; julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: dns; post.almac.co.uk Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 ... User unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:28:25 -0700 --BAA19898.864549848/mx1.eskimo.com Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA19829; Sun, 25 May 1997 01:22:10 -0700 Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:22:10 -0700 From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199705250822.BAA19829@mx1.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #177 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/177 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --BAA19898.864549848/mx1.eskimo.com-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 02:00:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA25502; Sun, 25 May 1997 02:00:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 02:00:29 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199705250400.VAA13781@ganymede.compumedia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:59:24 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Magnets for simple OU Toy Resent-Message-ID: <"0dobm2.0.NE6.j-_Xp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3236 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: American Science and Surplus http://www.sciplus.com/ has a few magnets. Also for strong neos and so forth, try: The Magnet Source Master Magnetics, Inc. P.O. Box 279 607 S. Gilbert Castle Rock, CO 80104 (303) 688-3966 1-800-525-3536 - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 02:09:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA07427 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 25 May 1997 02:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 02:09:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Sun May 25 02:08:55 1997 Received: from localhost (localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with internal id CAA05020; Sun, 25 May 1997 02:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Old-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 02:08:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199705250908.CAA05020@mx2.eskimo.com> To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="CAA05020.864551335/mx2.eskimo.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --CAA05020.864551335/mx2.eskimo.com The original message was received at Sun, 25 May 1997 01:33:27 -0700 (PDT) from smartlst@localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 451 TechSys@austintx.net... austintx.net: Name server timeout ... while talking to post.almac.co.uk.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk... User unknown --CAA05020.864551335/mx2.eskimo.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; mx2.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk Action: failed Status: 4.4.3 Remote-MTA: dns; post.almac.co.uk Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:47:04 -0700 (PDT) --CAA05020.864551335/mx2.eskimo.com Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA04239; Sun, 25 May 1997 01:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:33:27 -0700 (PDT) From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199705250833.BAA04239@mx2.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #179 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/179 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --CAA05020.864551335/mx2.eskimo.com-- From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 02:10:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA07483 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 25 May 1997 02:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 02:10:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Sun May 25 02:10:04 1997 Received: from localhost (localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with internal id CAA05022; Sun, 25 May 1997 02:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Old-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 02:10:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199705250910.CAA05022@mx2.eskimo.com> To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="CAA05022.864551404/mx2.eskimo.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --CAA05022.864551404/mx2.eskimo.com The original message was received at Sun, 25 May 1997 01:33:41 -0700 (PDT) from smartlst@localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 451 TechSys@austintx.net... austintx.net: Name server timeout ... while talking to post.almac.co.uk.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk... User unknown --CAA05022.864551404/mx2.eskimo.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; mx2.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; julian.mallett@torran.almac.co.uk Action: failed Status: 4.4.3 Remote-MTA: dns; post.almac.co.uk Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:46:58 -0700 (PDT) --CAA05022.864551404/mx2.eskimo.com Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA04313; Sun, 25 May 1997 01:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:33:41 -0700 (PDT) From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199705250833.BAA04313@mx2.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #180 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/180 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --CAA05022.864551404/mx2.eskimo.com-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 04:57:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA13365; Sun, 25 May 1997 04:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 04:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33882493.64CB@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 21:07:55 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnet Selection, Simple Magnetic Ou Toy (SMOT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2F89636E2921" Resent-Message-ID: <"YVq6x1.0.dG3.2Q2Yp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3237 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2F89636E2921 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I thought I should comment here on the selection of magnets to build up the side arrays. The height of the magnets MUST be less than the lift otherwise you will not be able to get the ramps to link. The ramp shown by Jean-Louis will not be able to link as the height of the magnets is MUCH greater than the lift. My design is based on a 12mm lift as this is the height of the Alum "U" channel. My magnet height is 10mm and therefore the magnet arrays from two linking ramps can fit one under the other. I have attached a updated Gif showing why this is important. The SMOT ramp design did not just happen. Be carefull to change it too much. There are elements in the design which are based on MUCH pain and experience. I decided to use small magnets to build up the magnet arrays as this was the only way I could see to easily obtain the magnet array shape that I needed, very wide, long and low. Magnets like that are not easy to find in one block. Try to keep to the 104mm magnet array length as the 90mm ramp length is based on this. I encourage you to experiment, but first build a unit like the plans and then try your own design. Just remember, whatever you build, you must be able to link 3-4 units in Phase 2. 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75U6XtlkfvodnuaOsmeWtf+ZqOxyqDgqWAu4XC0DqfZWSYcHMRKlhuuWalh0m6bCh3wiMKUE eNH3L6FmKX46hAdHRjc5gxxUpNBnUQg3SnrXUhaVfq0GaklEqE+HhD6Yq4vafJAKjFc3JsX6 lChWQ6zKUsUUnd65hbTGndIajukpabe0bbN5oVRGhJgmiMnSKfnJXbsYe5qygqT6gcKXrDU1 quoKIW4ngsCKfaQncfMaZtxqhZKGUdFEbp0HU0MkQs5Kg/Zmg8hWg1qEfvqmlkOpKLJHcOP2 d3iXr6lTFgP3ee20iG0IZB0Ygpi3qC8qLuz6aM7jIy5Zrc82sih7i4qmobC4spTVq8DXHXMK s0P6KUKxZHzIB0v9snfZabNEJLApUyly5FC2Cq5Am7RKu7RM27RO+7RQG7VSO7Wns4fHmjWp Gq5aK6J6erVzyLFs6m0KFqQqK7J9In+XZyy7tm5k57MYS2wq6Kx25mvyVIEeC1Bu930fSHxw yEZ0+3Zil2hsm7UBx7c3ma73CrD4OrftNqvs5q76gm8PhbDB+riV63cTRXEpVG51NEdtVLbh MjBypKCBMmoLZX4Fm7OUpnlqybneVrq0ii+A8ro/M23xp2qd20p5RrV9dafyqaLcSrG8O5DY hob1WIvDm7zKu7zM27zO+7zQG73SO73UW73We73Ym73am70BAQA7 --------------2F89636E2921-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 10:20:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA07495; Sun, 25 May 1997 10:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:00:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705251700.KAA04782@iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: JNaudin509@aol.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Simple OU Toy USA dim. Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"ws-FH.0._q1.q17Yp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3238 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis Thanks for the info. on your SMOT v1.0 unit and look forward to hearing of your closed loop magnetic wheel unit experiments. I am trying to follow Greg's design and finding the materials that he used. Here in USA the manufacturer's of magnets, aluminum track, steel bars, and wood, use English dimensions. Now that Greg said to use magnets widths that are LESS than the delta height, so as to connect multiple ramps, there are several standard USA sizes that could work. For a 0.5" steel ball, 0.5" alum. track, and a delta of 0.5". USA standard ceramic block magnet dimensions: Part No. Grade Thick Width Lenght Cost per Qty 100 CB1434 5 0.25 0.375 0.75 $20 CB 14342 5 0.25 0.375 1.50 $35 CB65 5 0.393 0.430 1.875 $38 Supplier: The Magnet Source (800)525-3536, min. order $30 Going to give the CB65 a try. I'll post my results. Best Regards, Michael Randall At 03:33 AM 5/25/97 -0400, Jean-Louis Naudin wrote: >On 25/05/1997 05:10:10 , Michael Randall wrote : > ><< > Hi Jean-Louis, > > Nice video and photo's of your Phase 1 unit! I see that your unit also > worked with different magnets. Can you describe your unit like: > > - What was the lenght and size of the aluminum(?) ramp, and height at the > end point? > - Size of your magnets and steel ball used? > - Does the ball exit at the same level as the entry level? > - At end drop did the ball roll away? > > This would help others in designing their units with more choices from > available material sources. > > Best Regards, > Michael Randall > >> > >Hi Michael, > >Concerning a source of magnets, I can give you an idea, you can find strong >ferrite magnet in cleaning tools for aquarium windows, it made with two >strong magnets recovered by a sheet of fiber, you need only to brake it and >extract the magnets, pay attention to the polarity of the magnet, magnetic >poles must be on the biggest surfaces. > >I give you my SMOT v1.0 specs, I shall put my own design soon in my web : > >The size of his magnets is 25x40x10 mm ( for 3$ each ), >I have used 2 x 5 magnets for the two ramps, >The iron shield size is 20x25x2 mm, length 180 mm, >I have use a 20x20 mm square U aluminium channel, and a 25 mm steel ball, >The delta of the level between the input and the output is 12 mm. > >As said Greg in a previous email, this the only first version of the SMOT. >The complete O/U setup is the SMOT V 4.0 in closed loop. > >Today I work on my own design of a closedloop magnetic wheel, using this >magnetic regauging principle.....I have some interestings ideas and schemes >to share for whose are interested. > >Overunity yours, > >Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) >Email : JNaudin509@aol.com >my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ >WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 10:21:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA07555; Sun, 25 May 1997 10:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705251700.KAA04944@iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: RE: Simple OU Toy Resent-Message-ID: <"1Q5iS.0.yr1.G27Yp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3239 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dan, Good news about connecting multiple ramps! Looking forward to your design info. Earlier you mentioned that the drop was lower than the entry height. How did you solve that? Michael Randall At 10:15 AM 5/24/97 -0700, Dan Quickert wrote: >Saw the plans for the SMOT late last night on Jean-Louis Naudin's website. > >Immediately reconfigured one of my test rigs to see how the design works. > Length, height of the ramp and the field contour adjustment generally in >concept with the posted design, but used parts on hand - different size >magnets (4mm x 20mm x 25mm), steel bar twice too long, wooden plant pot >labels for spacers. With all that variation from the specs, it worked first >time, with a lift of 18mm. Some previous experience with the ramps >influenced that result, of course. > >Positioned a previously working ramp (of different design) at the new one's >exit (second ramp's entrance at the same elevation as the first ramp's >entrance); the ball ran through both ramps after minor horizontal >adjustment at their linkage point. > >Will try to get materials to more exactly duplicate the posted design soon. >Meanwhile, I'd say that the plans are good if I can go so far from the >specs and still have it work so well. Of course there's also the >possibility that it wouldn't work without my changes, but from my >experience the differences in my quick mock-up were in the direction away >from optimal. I'd opine that the design works, within a wide margin of >construction variability. > >Dan Quickert >dequickert@ucdavis.edu >916-756-0575 > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 10:32:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA01702; Sun, 25 May 1997 10:24:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:24:38 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC6906.94FA8EA0@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: RE: Watson/Teamwork Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:41:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"cD6D42.0.VQ.LN7Yp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3240 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Don't use IRC to chat in real time with each other. Use ICQ. On ICQ You = can see which one of your friends are online, chat with them, and send = files to each other. Search for it. I know it is out there. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 10:35:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA01782; Sun, 25 May 1997 10:24:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:24:55 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC6906.9F17F940@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Energy from "Nowhere" Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:08:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"NYe7v3.0.lR.cN7Yp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3241 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It is good to not only know how to make something work, but also know = why it works. From what I have read the energy comes from a field that = keeps objects in existance.=20 What would happed if you created a "Black hole." or multiple "Black = holes" around one area where all the ZPE was going into the "Black = holes" that capture the ZPE instead of keeping the objects in the one = area in existance? just a question. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 10:36:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA09312; Sun, 25 May 1997 10:25:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:25:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC6906.992B4000@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: RE: Re : Watson/Teamwork Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:47:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"XAsJ7.0.KH2.LO7Yp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3242 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I would like to know what the EMF looks like on Watson's device. Does it = change with the movement of the ball? Would an EMF picture, or video = give us further insite? And if what we are doing now does do into the = history books I would like at least one sentence about me. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 10:37:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA09351; Sun, 25 May 1997 10:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC6906.9BFB7700@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: RE: Magnets for simple OU Toy Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:50:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PJPqO3.0.zH2.SO7Yp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3243 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: American Science and Surplus. Cheap magnets. They only have small problems. They come in many different sizes and shapes. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 10:47:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA06025; Sun, 25 May 1997 10:46:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:46:51 -0700 From: geoff@compcafe.co.uk (Geoff Greaves) Reply-To: geoff@compcafe.co.uk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Gary's Neutral Line Date: 25 May 1997 17:49:34 GMT Message-Id: <25554942.113418005@compcafe.co.uk> Organization: via Computer Cafes FC BBS Wales, UK Resent-Message-ID: <"UGWQP.0._T1.9i7Yp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3244 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Can anyone tell me whether the neutral line is apparently: 1) infinitely thin, the iron bar changing polarity as its centre moves across it or 2) infinitely thin with the iron bar being N-S on the side nearest the magnet and S-N on the side away from the magnet at the same moment or 3) does it have thickness changing with the dimensions of the iron bar? Thanks. ---------------------------------------- >From Geoff Greaves: geoff@compcafe.co.uk ---------------------------------------- From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 11:09:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA14800 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 25 May 1997 11:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:09:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Sun May 25 11:09:12 1997 Received: from localhost (localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with internal id LAA09479; Sun, 25 May 1997 11:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Old-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:09:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199705251809.LAA09479@mx2.eskimo.com> To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="LAA09479.864583752/mx2.eskimo.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to ryb1989@dsuper.net bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --LAA09479.864583752/mx2.eskimo.com The original message was received at Sun, 25 May 1997 10:21:45 -0700 (PDT) from smartlst@localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ryb1989@dsuper.net ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 451 TechSys@austintx.net... austintx.net: Name server timeout 451 JULIANB%BGEARN.bitnet@plearn.edu.pl... reply: read error from plearn.edu.pl. 451 tom@gorge.net... timeout waiting for input during client greeting 451 tom@gorge.net... reply: read error from serv.gorge.net. 451 mage2@earthlink.net... timeout waiting for input during client greeting 451 mage2@earthlink.net... reply: read error from finland-c.it.earthlink.net. ... while talking to oracle.dsuper.net.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... Addressee unknown 550 ryb1989@dsuper.net... User unknown --LAA09479.864583752/mx2.eskimo.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; mx2.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; ryb1989@dsuper.net Action: failed Status: 4.4.3 Remote-MTA: dns; oracle.dsuper.net Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:04:35 -0700 (PDT) --LAA09479.864583752/mx2.eskimo.com Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA08804; Sun, 25 May 1997 10:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:21:45 -0700 (PDT) From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199705251721.KAA08804@mx2.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #181 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/181 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --LAA09479.864583752/mx2.eskimo.com-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 11:20:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA09144; Sun, 25 May 1997 11:09:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:09:40 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:09:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970525140901_270816989@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Magnet Selection, Simple Magnetic Ou Toy (SMOT) Resent-Message-ID: <"-hH-Q1.0.jE2.Y18Yp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3245 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 25/05/1997 13:02:51 , Greg Watson wrote : << Hi All, I thought I should comment here on the selection of magnets to build up the side arrays. The height of the magnets MUST be less than the lift otherwise you will not be able to get the ramps to link. The ramp shown by Jean-Louis will not be able to link as the height of the magnets is MUCH greater than the lift. My design is based on a 12mm lift as this is the height of the Alum "U" channel. My magnet height is 10mm and therefore the magnet arrays from two linking ramps can fit one under the other. >> Hi agree with you, Greg. Today, I rebuild a new ramp with your setup. I have already added your very important comment in my web server. Thanks for your help... :-) Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 11:38:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA12711 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 25 May 1997 11:38:43 -0700 Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:38:43 -0700 X-Envelope-From: JohnnyFG@chardonnay.niagara.com Sun May 25 11:38:42 1997 Received: from smtp.algonet.se (angel.algonet.se [194.213.74.112]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA12678 for ; Sun, 25 May 1997 11:38:36 -0700 Received: (qmail 24664 invoked from network); 25 May 1997 18:34:45 -0000 Received: from du70-2.ppp.algonet.se (195.100.2.70) by angel.algonet.se with SMTP; 25 May 1997 18:34:45 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970525203846.312724c0@mail.algonet.se> X-Sender: johnnyfg@mail.algonet.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Old-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 20:38:46 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Johnny Feelgood Subject: RE: Watson/Teamwork In-Reply-To: <01BC6906.94FA8EA0@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: At 11.41 1997-05-25 -0500, you wrote: >Don't use IRC to chat in real time with each other. Use ICQ. >On ICQ You can see which one of your friends are online, >chat with them, and send files to each other. >Search for it. I know it is out there. "http://www.mirabilis.com/" have it! exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 11:47:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA14133; Sun, 25 May 1997 11:46:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:46:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199705251845.UAA27295@centaure.worldnet.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Pascal" Organization: vmf To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 20:49:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Watson/Teamwork Priority: normal In-reply-to: <01BC6906.94FA8EA0@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"Gi_nZ3.0.kS3.hZ8Yp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3246 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The ICQ program can be found at http://www.mirabilis.com I use it with pleasure though still in beta test. I would also recommend using Netmeeting V2.0 : you can chat, you can draw pictures (if u have a drawing pad, mouse not recommended) and schematics, you can speak and even send and receive videos. Of course several users can be in conference at the same time. Anyone can be a named conference initiator. Might be interesting for devices setup brainstorming. I have a question for Jean-Louis Naudin, since you are in France. Can u tell to the lost french people of the list where we can find materials for building the SMOT ? :) Keep the things spinning... Pascal CAVY > From: Hawkeye > To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" > Subject: RE: Watson/Teamwork > Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:41:12 -0500 > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Don't use IRC to chat in real time with each other. Use ICQ. On ICQ > You can see which one of your friends are online, chat with them, > and send files to each other. > > Search for it. I know it is out there. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 12:26:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA21221; Sun, 25 May 1997 12:25:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:25:27 -0700 Message-ID: <33889194.3618@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:23:00 -0400 From: Dave DeLeo Reply-To: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Watson/Teamwork References: <01BC6906.94FA8EA0@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"f8myt.0.UB5.c89Yp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3247 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hawkeye wrote: > > Don't use IRC to chat in real time with each other. Use ICQ. On ICQ You can see which one of your friends are online, chat with them, and send files to each other. > > Search for it. I know it is out there. Thanks, I just downloaded and installed it.... My UIN # is 1318578 Is anyone else on the list using ICQ besides Greg and Jean-Lois? Dave DeLeo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 12:27:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA21330; Sun, 25 May 1997 12:26:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:26:09 -0700 Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 21:29:37 +0200 Message-Id: <199705251929.VAA17598@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re:Newman motor efficiencies ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net Resent-Message-ID: <"mvZG2.0.8D5.G99Yp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3248 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:36 25.05.1997 GMT, Newman-l wrote: >N>responses to responses to that post. One of the responses should have >N>stood out to you all. It was Stefan Hartman's response to Greg >N>Watson's's response to my post. Most should recognize Stefan as a >N>thorough, competent and sincere investigator, as well as a humble and >N>polite individual. Visit his pages, and you will draw those >N>conclusions. Part of Stefan's response, and I'll quote it: "I am >N>convinced from my own studies that the first big Newman motors are >N>overunity, but probably not the smaller ones." Before I decided to jump > > > >N>payback issues become resolved through refinement. Instead, everyone >N>goes off to explore other avenues. You know, it just might be that you >N>need a great big nasty looking motor/generator to harness this free >N>energy stuff. Just like there are limits to how small you can build a >N>deisel engine or a turbine engine before the heat losses kill you, there >N>may be similar limitations on OU. There may not be, but why not use > > > > Yes, that probably is correct. I make that statement based on my own >observations testing his machines. > > The big 12000# unit IMO, easily demonstrated OU or at least exhibited >some rather startling results, such as being able to belt drive a DC >motor backwards as a generator and then extracting an amount of power >from the generator somewhere between 98% to 110% of the value of input >power to the motor, depending on the particular test. > > The test setup was pretty basic. A bicycle wheel made of plastic >(minus the tire) was the driving pulley on the shaft of the Newman motor. >A rubber belt made from round 5/16" diameter tie-down strapping went >between the bike wheel and a V-belt pulley mounted on an idler shaft. > > The idler shaft had another V-belt pulley mounted on it, and more of >the rubber tie-down belting was used between that pulley and the V-belt >pulley mounted on the shaft of the DC PM motor which acted as a >generator. The belting mechanical ratio was about 15:1 step up, so the >DC generator ran faster than the Newman motor. > > The DC power input to the Newman motor was measured by reading the DC >voltage across the battery, and the input current was read by using a >D'Arsonval ammeter in series with the battery. On some tests, a >capacitor was placed across the ammeter to smooth the intermittent >current pulses drawn by the motor. It was found that as the motor >attained top speed, the capacitor was unnecessary to get a stable >reading. Multiplying E x I gave the input watts to the motor. > > The Generator was loaded with a series of 12 volt lamps, and the >generator output voltage and current were measured using standard >D'Arsonval meters. Again, E x I = Watts recovered from the generator. > > I certainly make no claims that these tests were error free, the >considering the expected inefficiency of a conventional motor built as >Newman built this one, such test results are, at least, surprising. > > Ralph > Hi Ralph and all, well, if the newer smaller Newman motors would be much more efficient than 100 % MECHANICALLY, it would be easy to drive a generator mechanically and generate enough High Voltage DC to drive the Newman motor again and thus close the loop. This seems not to be the case, otherwise Newman himself would have shown this and already done it long ago. As all my small Newman- motors were MECHANICALLY less efficient than 100 % this was NOT possible with my models. But I also just build the type of older "big open coil" models, where the WHOLE SYSTEM efficiency including winding heat generation has reached in one test 123 % efficiency, but the highest mechanical efficiency was only about 60 to 70 %, when I remember it correctly.. The newer type of Newman motor could get higher MECHANICAL efficiencies, but I doubt, that the small units like his "toy motor" is mechanically over 100 %, I guess more around 90 to 95 %. Also there have not been published any realistic measurement results on these new smaller machines, just the FAN motor was stated to draw less input power, than a normal FAN motor, but that does not show any overunity effect ! In about 1 - 2 week, we will test our new magnetic flux switch device, which will hopefully show better results. Most of the parts are ready to use now, only a few assemblings still has to be done. Have a look at: http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm for more info on this flux switch project. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: www.detours.de www.overunity.de www.berlin-city.com email: harti@harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 13:15:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA24309; Sun, 25 May 1997 12:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 21:55:29 +0200 Message-Id: <199705251955.VAA17704@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@shell2.ba.best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: geoff@compcafe.co.uk, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Gary's Neutral Line Cc: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, tv@juno.com Resent-Message-ID: <"7hJsC3.0.Zx5.HZ9Yp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3249 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 17:49 25.05.1997 GMT, geoff@compcafe.co.uk wrote: >Can anyone tell me whether the neutral line is apparently: > >1) infinitely thin, the iron bar changing polarity as its centre moves across >it or > >2) infinitely thin with the iron bar being N-S on the side nearest the magnet >and S-N on the side away from the magnet at the same moment or > >3) does it have thickness changing with the dimensions of the iron bar? > >Thanks. > I tried to understand the GARY invention this morning, before going to sleep. (still working at nights now...) Well, the "neutral line" seems to be the changing point, where in a highly distorted magnet field area, the magnetic induction on a ferromagenetic material like iron changes polarity inside the iron. At lower distance it depends on the foreground surface fields of the "Hufeisen"-PM-magnet and at wider distance above the "Hufeisen-PM-magnet" it seems to change polarity due to stray magnetic fields induced by the other end of the "Hufeisen-PM-magnet". Am I right ??? Otherwise the effects would be hard to explain.... Have a look at this: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810 It would be pretty interesting to simulate this with QuickField ? How about this Greg ? Regards, STefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: www.detours.de www.overunity.de www.berlin-city.com email: harti@harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 13:51:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA00150; Sun, 25 May 1997 13:47:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 13:47:29 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 16:46:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970525164616_1073769081@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: pascalc@mail.worldnet.fr Subject: Re : RE: Watson/Teamwork Resent-Message-ID: <"W4Z1j3.0.F2.WLAYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3251 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 25/05/1997 19:57:00 , you wrote : << I have a question for Jean-Louis Naudin, since you are in France. Can u tell to the lost french people of the list where we can find materials for building the SMOT ? :) Keep the things spinning... Pascal CAVY >> Bonjour Pascal, You can find some Magnets in FRANCE at : Aimants Goudsmit France Z.I. rue du vert Bois 59535 Neuville en Ferrain Cedex Tel : (33) 03 20 03 60 66 Fax: (33) 03 20 03 59 96 UGIMAG Avenue d'Uriage 38830 St Pierre D'Allevard Tel : (33) 04 76 45 39 70 Fax: (33) 04 76 08 96 69 I hope that will help you..... En ce qui me concerne je me fournis a Carrefour (Aimants pour aquarium) ou Loquets magnetique...... Magnetiquement votre.... :-) Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 13:52:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA31288; Sun, 25 May 1997 13:41:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 13:41:25 -0700 Message-ID: <3388A357.40CE@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 16:38:47 -0400 From: Dave DeLeo Reply-To: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Toy References: <199705251700.KAA04944@iceland.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UBXNY3.0.ne7.qFAYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3250 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Has anyone given any more thought into where the energy might be coming from? What about the possible "costs" associated with running such a device, I believe Greg had mentioned this a while back? Dave DeLeo ddeleo@ix.netcom.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 14:23:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA02755; Sun, 25 May 1997 14:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:11:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Tixif@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 17:09:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970525170918_-1330882573@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Fwd: Changes, Friction - tedious notes Resent-Message-ID: <"BGB-H1.0.wg.WhAYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3252 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Changes, Friction - tedious notes Date: 97-05-25 11:21:48 EDT From: Tixif To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au CC: Freeenrg@eskimo.com Gregg wrote. << Be carefull to change it too much. There are elements in the design which are based on MUCH pain and experience. >> A couple of notes for those interested. I have also used a differrent set up than the specs and began looking immediately at the drop from the field for the next ramp. I experimented with varying designs and distances, trying to keep those variations with the limits of Greggs original set up using percentages of the differrence between his material and mine. With the holiday weekend, I only found a few of the specified materials but had to play anyhow. Building an exact model of Greggs unit is obviously critical to a successful circuit, although I am fairly sure that the following tests showed that the ball will drop from one field to the entry of the next ramp. I did the following: 1. Ball Diameter vs. Inside Ramp Distance. Greggs ball diameter is 12mm on a 12mm track with walls 1.5mm thick. For my ball (.748" d) I built two test tracks with inside distance of (Track 1) .562" (closest to the ride that Greggs ball makes) and one with distance of (Track 2) .725" (this brought the ball way down in the track - which seemed to me worth a look because the actio n induced on the ball need not be as great to cause roll). 2. To Reduce Friction - I filed and sanded the tops of my track, the rails, to as close a 90d razor edge as possable to maintain a consistant tangent point for the balls ride. 3. Greggs ramps are ~86.5% of the magnetic drive assembly - I did the same. Major Differrence here in the set up - was that my mags were already too big to make an assembly, so I stayed with what had worked earlier using only a legnth of 1, increased in stregnth (Re: Crude Success). My mags (quite strong ceramics) are 1.875" long thus ramps were built 1.621" long. 4. Then the rise - Couple of problems here where the rise of Greggs track=ball diameter=75% of track inside distance=~13.4% of track legnth=11.5% of the mag drive assy. Mine wasn't going to work out that way. I chose to stay with a rise that would allow my next track to fit under the first = a rise of .312" (~3.5d pitch) vs. Greggs +7d pitch. 5. Found an optimum angle for the mags to be 30d off the center line of the track (note on this later). 6. To simulate the drop/exit to the next ramp, I included another track for it to drop to. Track 1. With the ball riding higher in the track: A. The induced roll was much faster making it easier to fine tune the mags for making the ball drop off the end. B. More difficult to adjust the mags to start the roll as the mags had to be much closer to the ball. C. The ball would infact traverse the track and drop to the next - but stayed coupled to the field and did not continue. Track 2. With the ball lower in the track: A. Travel was much slower, but the induced spin (more energy here!) was huge. B. The mags did not need to be nearly as close to start the roll. C. The ball traversed the track, fell off the end and continue on to a level surface of the same height as the entry. While this all seems very far off from Greggs info, the principles were the same. These preliminary runs tell me that: 1. While I have not tested multiple mag assemblies to create this unusual field that Gregg mentions, there is work being performed on the sphere great enough to overcome gravity and friction VS. its rest potential. 2. In early construction methods, variances in design only result in a variation of mag placement. Track 1 could quite likely achieve the roll away results by varying the height of the mags relative to the ball/track. 3. I'm curious to see how to set up the mags for the second track to avoid interferring (but to avoid repeating Greggs learning curve - I'll build it acording to his specs.) A side note on the 30d angle is that both mag drive assemblies are then 60d relative - An unusual comment from the bible is God asks if we have seen the power of the snowflake for he has reserved its power for times of war . . . The only thing I know about snowfake/ice crystal is that they grow at 60d angles. Also, while the induced spin of track 2 could be discounted as a trade for speed, I see something differrent in that when the ball drops from either track, it has the same gravitational potential. Since the DROP has nothing to with forward momentum, the spin is energy potential gained VS. time. I leave the advanced formulae argument to you guys. I am skilled in design/construction, electrical systems and mechanics and believe I can evaluate what I see happening. I'll rebuild the system according to Greggs specifications. Don't you guys leave me behind - Phase 2. Shawn From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 14:23:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA02896; Sun, 25 May 1997 14:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC6926.368FD1C0@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: RE: Simple OU Toy Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 16:09:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"FrD0k2.0.7j.hiAYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3253 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nuclear energy was supposed to be so wonderful, but now it seems to be = more of a curse. When going into the unknown you must be careful or else = you might end up falling to your doom. All I say is keep your eyes open. = You can't just look at the positive, but also the negative.=20 Like the ying and the yang, the positive side can not exist without a = negative side. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Every = choice has a consiquence. The cloud that has a silver lining also has = silver spikes.=20 You get the idea. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 14:46:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA07337; Sun, 25 May 1997 14:45:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:45:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3388AE81.3249@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 06:56:25 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Toy References: <970525141857_100433.1541_BHG81-1@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ePx_e.0.Qo1.LCBYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3254 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > Greg, > > > The single SMOT ramp is not clearly OU. You will need to finish > > the Phase 4 device for that. But the ramp sure makes you think. > > > > Have you built yours yet? > > No, I haven't. That doesn't mean I'm negative about what you are doing. > In fact if there were not the large crowds that there are, working on > it, I might well be tempted. Since so many are working on it, I think > I can afford to wait and see what happens. > > This is in fact truly weird, and could never really happen without the > 'net. We have you in Oz, being apparently very sane and reasonable > about all this, yet claiming that you have a magnetic O-U device. Two, > in fact - this 'toy' and the rotary one. "Sane and reasonable" is not > something we see much of (on either side) in discussions of O-U magnetic > or electrical devices. The inventor is usually bonkers and clutches his > gizmo to his bosom, fearful that someone will (a) prove it's nonsense, > (b) steal his ideas and improve on them, (c) that the dreaded oil > companies or the Men in Black will assassinate him, (d)... & (e)... you > can fill in yourself. Couple this with the fact that nowhere have I > seen these machines fully described, or secure test results on them, you > will understand my scepticism. That's why I am here. > But ... well, you don't seem even to hanker after the Nobel (not that > they'd give you one anyway, those are for Proper Scientists, not "lucky > tinkerers" like the Wrights). Nor do you seem to have gone demented > with the prospect of $$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!! - so I can only conclude that > (a) this is all a seriously impressive leg-pull, or (b) you've found > something very "interesting" indeed. I, and many others have found something. I think the difference is my approach. I am willing to gamble on the future and in the basic "Good Nature" of people. I basically believe if you trust people, the trust will come back. Sort of like Love. > I can't agree with whoever it was said that if it stops after a few > hours then it can't be O-U. I doubt that a rolling-ball device could > easily be made which would keep running for more than a few minutes > without energy input. Very right. Build a device, is really very simple and quick. When YOU see for yourself that the ball is not pulled back up the exit ramp by the same forces that pulled it up the ramp, the light comes on. When, in Phase 2, we link 3-4 ramps and YOU SEE there is no reduction in speed as the ball goes from ramp to ramp, YOU will really know whene we are going. > Jean-Louis' web site is clear and most helpful. I am glad Jean-Louis has helped. > I thought that the Logajan and Ucar comments were (as usual) most > interesting and helpful. I can't see how the device could be getting > energy by demagnetising the fridge magnets - or whether it could get > any useful energy if it was doing that. Neither can I. NONE of my testing has shown the magnets loosing strength! > If others confirm your findings, I will certainly build one of these. > If that happens and mine works too, maybe you would be willing to write > a piece for our little rag? OK, what's the publication? > Strange - this international stuff... > > Chris Hi Chris, The devices really work. This time the SMOT evidence will change things. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 14:59:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA09275; Sun, 25 May 1997 14:59:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:59:13 -0700 Message-ID: <3388B2B4.2147@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:14:20 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Toy USA dim. References: <199705251700.KAA04782@iceland.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Swl2e1.0.qG2.nOBYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3255 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > Hi Jean-Louis > > Thanks for the info. on your SMOT v1.0 unit and look forward to hearing of > your closed loop magnetic wheel unit experiments. > > I am trying to follow Greg's design and finding the materials that he used. > Here in USA the manufacturer's of magnets, aluminum track, steel bars, and > wood, use English dimensions. Now that Greg said to use magnets widths that > are LESS than the delta height, so as to connect multiple ramps, there are > several standard USA sizes that could work. > > For a 0.5" steel ball, 0.5" alum. track, and a delta of 0.5". > > USA standard ceramic block magnet dimensions: > Part No. Grade Thick Width Lenght Cost per Qty 100 > CB1434 5 0.25 0.375 0.75 $20 I would use this one, smaller, easier to make different size arrays. > CB 14342 5 0.25 0.375 1.50 $35 > CB65 5 0.393 0.430 1.875 $38 > > Supplier: > The Magnet Source (800)525-3536, min. order $30 > > Going to give the CB65 a try. I'll post my results. > > Best Regards, > Michael Randall Hi Michael, I woulds go for the smaller magnets. I have found that they work out better. As a hint to building the arrays and being able to reuse the magnets, I stack the maagnets together on a flat steel plate, get them square and them skim the magnets with a THIN coating of superglue. Let than dry and then apply to the other side. Now let the steel bar attach by itself. Building the arrays this way, I have found I can recover most uf the magnets. Other glues might work better. I just thought of using strong tape. Should work ok. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 15:09:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA10665; Sun, 25 May 1997 15:09:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:09:21 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970525150913.00ac14d0@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:09:14 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: AntiG Correlation (Re: SMOT or RMOT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"GJD8i.0.Yc2.GYBYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3257 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Although the source of energy for the SMOT or RMOT devices is not the primary point of attention at this time. Please notice the following correlation. 1) The experiment (described on Vortex) where a thin vertical sheet of bismuth between two magnets looses weight when it is on the neutral line between two magnets. 2) The free fall experiments by Donald A. Kelly where an increased fall time is observed in response to opposed magnetic fields. 3) The rumors that bifilar coils loose weight and inertia under microwave stimulation All of this examples involve a material on the "neutral line" loosing inertial mass or gravitational weight. *** Perhaps this small weight decrease is the effect that enables the OU toy to operate, because the ball is LIGHTER when the ramp pulls it up compared to when it exits and falls down. *** Of course the electron (and/or nucleus) ground state ZPE regeneration is still a plausible explanation for the source of energy as well as thermal negative-entropy, vibration rectification, chemical bond energy of the ferrite or PMs, remanent ferrite magnetization, etc... How big do you draw the "energy box"... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 15:14:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA08176; Sun, 25 May 1997 15:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970525150138.00abcdd0@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:01:39 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Non anomaly (Re: SMOT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"odcvb1.0.W_1.FSBYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3256 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wrong. The ceramic ferrite "refrigerator magnets" (BaFe2O3 or SrFe2O3) are MUCH LESS susceptible to demagnetization than AlNiCo magnets. I am listing the intrinsic coercivity force (demagnetizing force) for different magnetic materials (in Oersteds) Material Grade Demagnet Curie BH-Strength NdFeB g39 - 21,300 150 40 SmCo g26 - 10,000 300 26 AlNiCo g05 - 640 540 5.5 Ceramic g08 - 3,200 300 3.5 Flexible g01 - 1,300 100 0.6 Grade = Material quality grade (alloy type ie. ALNICO 5) Demagnet = Demagnetizing force in Oersteds Curie = Curie Temperature in Degrees Celsius BH-Strength = Maximum Energy Product in Mega Gauss Oersteds (MGO) The above clearly shows that AlNiCo is THE EASIEST to demagnetize. However AlNiCo has the highest Curie temperature of them all - 540degC. The Neodymium (NdFeB) magnets are the strongest (ie. they have the highest energy product) Also the statement "...a magnet can exhibit longer life if shunted..." IS MISLEADING. A ferromagnetic shunt between the poles (on let's say horseshoe magnet) ONLY decreases the magnet to an EXPOSURE to demagnetizing fields above the critical value. This shunt ONLY acts as a protection or a shield and doesn't prolong the magnetization of a magnet in the strictest sense. Theoretically a permanent magnet not exposed to a demagnetizing force above the critical value (listed above) or temperature above the Curie point or mechanical shock above a critical (g) value, WILL STAY MAGNETIZED FOREVER. Please remember that the demagnetizing force MUST oppose the magnetization polarity of a permanent magnet in order to do ANY "damage". This means S-S or N-N (ie. Repelling mode) is necessary to demagnetize a permanent magnet. *** In Greg's SMOT the magnets are in the ATTRACTING mode, so they are NOT subjected to any demagnetizing forces from each other !!!. *** At 04:26 PM 5/25/97 -0400, you wrote: > Briefly; rather large linear behavior as opposed to RE magnets >in general. Moderate resistancce to demagnetization, more resistance is >found in alnico alloys, and still more in Re types, but curves are different. > >>> > In general a magnet can exhibit longer life if shunted. Watson >steel ball acts as mild ... very mild .. shunt. > The design life of the magnets would then fall within the range >of open to slightly shunted. > > John Herman Schnurer > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 15:14:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA11920; Sun, 25 May 1997 15:14:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:14:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3388B5D3.6A8D@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:27:39 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork References: <01BC6906.992B4000@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ugx622.0.nv2.ucBYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3259 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hawkeye wrote: > > I would like to know what the EMF looks like on Watson's device. Does it change with the movement of the ball? Would an EMF picture, or video give us further insite? And if what we are doing now does do into the history books I would like at least one s entence about me. Hi Hawkeye, Don't understand your request. I will post a series of mag field sims on the ramp. It that what you wanted? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 15:15:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA11976; Sun, 25 May 1997 15:14:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:14:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3388B83B.6245@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:37:55 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT References: <33889380.3D82@gorge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"r-Gji3.0.mw2.-cBYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3260 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Miller wrote: > > Thank you for all the information you are giving us over > the internet. My pleasure, Tom. > Since it is not feasible for me to build even the simple > device, for now, I have been trying to "build" it in my > mind--a mental experiment. > > It would be helpful to me, and maybe a lot of others, > if you would publish some quickfield gifs of the > fields around the blocks of magnets. For instance: > > 1. Does the field on the inside face of each > array of magnets curve back into the end of each > small individual magnet? They function as a single large block. > 2. It "looks" like the ends of the little magnets > are "staggered." That is, the end of one set of > four (stacked vertically) seems to NOT be directly > across the track from the end of its counterpart. > (in the picture). Is this important? Yhe up and down the ramp alignment is not critical. The side arrays can be several mm out of alignment without causing any problems. Big misalignment at the top can cause the ball to be sucked sideways to one of the arrays causing exit problems. > 3. A series of shots showing how the fields of the > PMs interact with the steel ball, and what the field > inside the ball looks like (at various stages up the > ramp) would be very useful. Under way NOW. > 4. The most important place, though, must be the EXIT. > a side, and end, view of the fields here would be most > enlightening. Would one small magnet, strategically > placed, help the ball to move out of the fields of the > magnet sets, (assisting gravity) but not be strong enough > to hold the ball back, against gravity? No need. Properly built and adjusted, the SMOT device will exit every time! > Tom Miller Hi Tom, Maybe you and a friend could team up to build a SMOT. Ther are really VERY simple and easy to make. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 15:15:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA12033; Sun, 25 May 1997 15:14:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:14:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3388B959.3273@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:42:41 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnet Selection, Simple Magnetic Ou Toy (SMOT) References: <33882493.64CB@microtronics.com.au> <3388AC17.1CE9@ro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HmkIN1.0.ux2.5dBYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3261 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Patrick Reavis wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > I decided to use small magnets to build up the magnet arrays as this was > > the only way I could see to easily obtain the magnet array shape that I > > needed, very wide, long and low. Magnets like that are not easy to find > > in one block. > > > > Try to keep to the 104mm magnet array length as the 90mm ramp length is > > based on this. > > > > I encourage you to experiment, but first build a unit like the plans and > > then try your own design. > > > > Just remember, whatever you build, you must be able to link 3-4 units in > > Phase 2. > > > > Best Regards, > > Greg > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Mr. Watson, Greg is ok. > Have you considered strip magnets? ( the type used to secure > advertisement signs to cars and trucks)? The ones I have played with are too weak by a factor of 2-4. > Any sign painting/manufacturing company should be able to advise you on > where to purchase it. I've > seen it in rolls several feet long and a few inches wide. Good luck with > your design. Most fridge magnet suppliers can alsp source the material. But its too weak. > Patrick Reavis > > -- > The Double Naught Spy > http://ro.com/~preavis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 15:22:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA09253; Sun, 25 May 1997 15:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3388B49F.7DB9@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:22:31 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gary's Neutral Line References: <25554942.113418005@compcafe.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"20qzU.0.PG2.MZBYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3258 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Geoff Greaves wrote: > > Can anyone tell me whether the neutral line is apparently: > > 1) infinitely thin, the iron bar changing polarity as its centre moves across > it or > > 2) infinitely thin with the iron bar being N-S on the side nearest the magnet > and S-N on the side away from the magnet at the same moment or > > 3) does it have thickness changing with the dimensions of the iron bar? > > Thanks. > > ---------------------------------------- > >From Geoff Greaves: geoff@compcafe.co.uk > ---------------------------------------- Hi Geoff. The Neutral Line actually doesn't exist. It is a place between the magnet arrays where the side to side magnetic attractive forces are balanced and the ball only feels the magnetic attractive forces up the ramp. The "U" channel helps the ball to stay, sort of, on the line. Slight misadjustments are allowed as the ball must move up before it moves sideways. The better the balance, the better the SMOT device works as small unbalanced sideways forces will produce increasing frictional losses. Awaiting your test results. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 15:29:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA16251 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 25 May 1997 15:29:07 -0700 Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:29:07 -0700 X-Envelope-From: herman@antioch-college.edu Sun May 25 15:29:04 1997 Received: from antioch-college.edu (college.antioch-college.edu [192.131.123.11]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA16183; Sun, 25 May 1997 15:28:53 -0700 Received: by antioch-college.edu (SMI-8.6/1.63) id SAA08972; Sun, 25 May 1997 18:25:47 -0400 Old-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:25:47 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Greg Watson cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Strip magnets In-Reply-To: <3388B959.3273@microtronics.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Flexible strip magnets should be mapped with sheet of paper and iron grains..... many are magnetised as a series of N-S stipes. J On Mon, 26 May 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > Patrick Reavis wrote: > > > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > > I decided to use small magnets to build up the magnet arrays as this was > > > the only way I could see to easily obtain the magnet array shape that I > > > needed, very wide, long and low. Magnets like that are not easy to find > > > in one block. > > > > > > Try to keep to the 104mm magnet array length as the 90mm ramp length is > > > based on this. > > > > > > I encourage you to experiment, but first build a unit like the plans and > > > then try your own design. > > > > > > Just remember, whatever you build, you must be able to link 3-4 units in > > > Phase 2. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > Greg > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Mr. Watson, > > Greg is ok. > > > Have you considered strip magnets? ( the type used to secure > > advertisement signs to cars and trucks)? > > The ones I have played with are too weak by a factor of 2-4. > > > Any sign painting/manufacturing company should be able to advise you on > > where to purchase it. I've > > seen it in rolls several feet long and a few inches wide. Good luck with > > your design. > > Most fridge magnet suppliers can alsp source the material. But its too > weak. > > > Patrick Reavis > > > > -- > > The Double Naught Spy > > http://ro.com/~preavis > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 15:31:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA10140; Sun, 25 May 1997 15:18:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:18:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3388BA0B.619@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:45:39 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: MY HAT'S OFF! References: <33879BCD.54FE@interlaced.net> <3387C6CB.1F69@skypoint.com> <3387D3D8.3EBF@microtronics.com.au> <338894F7.40B1@skypoint.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7awAA2.0.5U2.kgBYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3262 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Logajan wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > The SMOT ramp as designed was not intended to be a class 3 ramp (Roll > > away). That's tricky to build and adjust. > > That's a mouth full! :-) > > I would say that if anyone could get a single ramp device to have the > ball (from a dead start) exit the ramp to a point a distance of, say, > the length of the ramp again, while remaining above or equal to the > start height, then anomalous behavior is indicated. I have done that. Others have also confirmed this. > A shorter roll distance would actually be all the would be required > since the magnetic field is unlikely to be horizontally symmetrical. > But it would be hard to say where that point exactly is, and so, > taking the asymmetrical assumption alone, then getting the same > distance away at the same or greater height pretty much proves > the anomalous nature. > > -- > - John Logajan -- jlogajan@skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - Hi John, How about 4 linked ramps with the ball moving through them and NOT slowing down? Think about all that frictional loss. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 15:32:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA16871; Sun, 25 May 1997 15:32:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:32:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3388BD89.4004@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:00:33 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple OU Toy References: <970525220442_100433.1541_BHG62-1@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7rG961.0.W74.htBYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3263 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > John, > > > If we accept that the ball makes it through the loop 1.001+ times > > (i.e. > 1.0) then getting energy from the magnets by weakening > > them becomes the first explanation to explore. > > I really should re-familiarise myself with all this stuff. But, as I > recall, the only difference between 'hard' ferromagnetic material which > is a magnet and the same material which is not, is that the 'domains' > in one case are aligned while in the other they are randomly oriented. > > I don't see (1) a lot of energy, if any, becoming available in the transition, > and (2) I can't off-hand think of one example of such a > mechanism being available to provide energy, or (3) of a simple machine > like Greg's which dis-aligns 'hard' materials in this way. > > So, while I take your point, I would prefer to assume that this is all > a big mistake or joke - unless or until others report the same effect. > > Queer business, though. Greg is impressive in his writings. And it is > true that rumours of such devices are indeed rife. I just don't know, > at this stage, what to make of it. But - odd though it may seem - I'm > reluctant to accept as explanations the "quasi-conventional" ideas such > as the one you suggest. They sound more like "explainings away" rather > than probable explanations. > > I can't help being reminded of a time of s.p.f where Frank Close > suggested that CF energy came from storage of energy in the 'deep' > electrons nearest the nucleus. Of course, having proposed this > startling new energy storage system, he was not interested in studying > it - I'd have thought such a discovery worth a few Nobels any year. > > > In fact, right off hand, alternate "non-anomalous" explanations do > > not leap to mind. > > Nor to mine. I think that either we are missing something obvious, or > Greg is pulling our leg, or his beastie is "interesting". > > Chris Hi Chris, Build a SMOT ramp (Phase 1), then build 3 more and link them together in Phase 4. See the ball transit through them without slowing down. Hear the frictional losses at work. Wonder at where the device gets its energy from. Look at the patent list I have posted before. BUT just BUILD a unit, play with it, SEE it work and then tell me I am pulling your leg. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 15:33:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA17894; Sun, 25 May 1997 15:33:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:33:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970525153318.00abc170@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:33:20 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Warning: Flexible Strip Magnets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"XQQCe.0.RN4.tuBYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3264 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: WARNING: The flexible strip magnets are TOTALLY unsuitable for Simple OU toy. They are polarized with south and north poles ON THE SAME SIDE. (ie. SNSNSNSNSNSN like this...). They are used to hold objects down and this pole configuration is much more efficient than one pole on one side and an opposite pole on another side of the strip. Many of the sheet magnets have up to 10 poles per square inch !!! The flexible magnets are also very weak. Compare in the chart below: Material Grade Demagnet Curie BH-Strength NdFeB g39 - 21,300 150 40 SmCo g26 - 10,000 300 26 AlNiCo g05 - 640 540 5.5 Ceramic g08 - 3,200 300 3.5 Flexible g01 - 1,300 100 0.6 Grade = Material quality grade (alloy type ie. ALNICO 5) Demagnet = Demagnetizing force in Oersteds Curie = Curie Temperature in Degrees Celsius BH-Strength = Maximum Energy Product in Mega Gauss Oersteds (MGO) The above clearly shows that AlNiCo is THE EASIEST to demagnetize. However AlNiCo has the highest Curie temperature of them all - 540degC. The Neodymium (NdFeB) magnets are the strongest (ie. they have the highest energy product). Flexible magnets are the weakest. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 15:58:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA13999; Sun, 25 May 1997 15:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3388C0A9.16E0@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:13:53 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnets for simple OU Toy References: <01BC682B.73268D00@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> <33878C87.61E0@ix.netcom.com> <3387CF6A.763C@microtronics.com.au> <3388646C.6EAE@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mtpaN3.0.dQ3.F5CYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3265 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave DeLeo wrote: > > I would like use the same size magnets so I can stick to the plans > throughout the other phases. I am going to go out and search for > magnets at least close to the right size today. If I can't find any > would it be possible for you to pick them up at your supplier and mail > them to me? I'll send you a check or money order (whatever you prefer) > to cover the magnets and shipping costs. By the way about what would > shipping costs and travel time be to ship between AU and US? I figured > I'll need about 800 or so. 64 X 4 for the straight phase 2 ramps and I > think you said there were 8 curved ramps in phase 4, I'm assuming they > use 9X4 mag arrays also. So that's 8X64. I figure if I superglue the > straight assemblys together I'm not going to be able to reuse them for > the curved ones. so I need 12 ramps at 64 mags apiece for a total of > 768 round that to 800..... > > Hopefully I'll be able to find something localy.... > Dave DeLeo > ddeleo@ix.netcom.com Hi Dave, Use strong tape on both sides of the arrays to hold them together. I have posted a corro about this. You can them re-use the magnets later. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 16:03:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA15927 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 25 May 1997 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 16:03:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Sun May 25 16:03:40 1997 Received: from localhost (localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with internal id QAA12064; Sun, 25 May 1997 16:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Old-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 16:03:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199705252303.QAA12064@mx2.eskimo.com> To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="QAA12064.864601420/mx2.eskimo.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to ryb1989@dsuper.net bounced 2 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --QAA12064.864601420/mx2.eskimo.com The original message was received at Sun, 25 May 1997 15:22:23 -0700 (PDT) from smartlst@localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ryb1989@dsuper.net ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 451 TechSys@austintx.net... austintx.net: Name server timeout 451 meier.landis@lshp1.fastnet.ch... reply: read error from lshp1.fastnet.ch. 451 zamcam@hotmail.com... reply: read error from mail.hotmail.com. ... while talking to oracle.dsuper.net.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... Addressee unknown 550 ryb1989@dsuper.net... User unknown --QAA12064.864601420/mx2.eskimo.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; mx2.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; ryb1989@dsuper.net Action: failed Status: 4.4.3 Remote-MTA: dns; oracle.dsuper.net Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:58:39 -0700 (PDT) --QAA12064.864601420/mx2.eskimo.com Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA11355; Sun, 25 May 1997 15:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:22:23 -0700 (PDT) From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199705252222.PAA11355@mx2.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #182 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/182 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --QAA12064.864601420/mx2.eskimo.com-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 17:21:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA21030; Sun, 25 May 1997 17:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 17:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 02:12:26 +0200 Message-Id: <199705260012.CAA18545@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@shell2.ba.best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"s4WpS1.0.V85.EJDYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3266 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:27 26.05.1997 +0930, gwatson@microtronics.com.au wrote: >Hawkeye wrote: >> >> I would like to know what the EMF looks like on Watson's device. Does it change with the movement of the ball? Would an EMF picture, or video give us further insite? And if what we are doing now does do into the history books I would like at least one sentence about me. > >Hi Hawkeye, > >Don't understand your request. > >I will post a series of mag field sims on the ramp. > >It that what you wanted? > He probably means, what I was suggesting a while ago. Put some coils around a few PM magnets of your SMOT and put a scope to these coils and look, if the moving ball induces some voltage (EMF) inside these coils ! The waveform of this EMF would be interesting to study ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: www.detours.de www.overunity.de www.berlin-city.com email: harti@harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 17:23:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA22165 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 25 May 1997 17:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 17:23:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Sun May 25 17:23:12 1997 Received: from mail1.halcyon.com (mail1.halcyon.com [206.63.63.40]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA22122 for ; Sun, 25 May 1997 17:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-pm0-ip3.halcyon.com by mail1.halcyon.com (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/10Nov96-0444PM) id AA05723; Sun, 25 May 1997 17:22:56 -0700 Message-Id: <9705260022.AA05723@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Lost Email Old-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 17:22:03 -0700 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have been setting up my new computer which is kludgy. I lost all my email for the period from last Tuesday to Saturday night as my computer froze while retrieving it. Thank you O great Satan Bill Gates! If anybody sent me anything in this time period they need to resend it. Hopefully I will get it this time :-( I missed the first three parts of Greg's O/U toy construction plans too, but presumably they will be posted on one of the participating websites. Sorry about the problems, Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 17:27:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA00099; Sun, 25 May 1997 17:26:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 17:26:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970525172648.006db94c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 17:26:49 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: SMOT Construction Tips Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jLls02.0.M1.IZDYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3268 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have found that a hollow glass marble filled with powdered iron (through a small drilled hole) achieves greater lift than a hard-steel ball. The hard glass surface also decreases friction losses and the powdered iron would eliminate any eddy current losses in the future. At 02:39 AM 5/26/97 +0400, you wrote: >Greg Watson wrote: > >>Have you started building your Phase 1 SMOT device yet? > >No, not yet. Because my two assistant cats had kidnapped my mouse ball >and made their own OU experiments! > >Actually, I will try to get the needed materials today. > >Regards, > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 17:36:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA22459; Sun, 25 May 1997 17:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 17:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3388D7A2.124C@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:51:54 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT QField Sims Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Tru5h3.0.hU5.3XDYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3267 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have posted 8 QField sims of the SMOT device to Jean-Louis. They should shortly be available to view. Jean-Louis will advise us when he is finished. I have been asked by several people about the SMOT site. As far as I am concerned, use any of it in anyway you see fit. Just remember to mention Jean-Louis and me. Its not nice to forget where the info came from. Build a SMOT, if you haven't started DO IT NOW! Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 17:40:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA03352; Sun, 25 May 1997 17:39:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 17:39:41 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970526044151.21df6412@ihug.co.nz> X-Sender: ksmith@ihug.co.nz X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:54:07 -1100 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Ken Smith Subject: Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork Resent-Message-ID: <"lwMaJ1.0.Hq.BlDYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3269 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>Hi Hawkeye, >> >>Don't understand your request. >> >>I will post a series of mag field sims on the ramp. >> >>It that what you wanted? >> > >He probably means, what I was suggesting a while ago. > >Put some coils around a few PM magnets of your SMOT and put a scope >to these coils and look, if the moving ball induces some >voltage (EMF) inside these coils ! > >The waveform of this EMF would be interesting to study ! > I will do same today - although JLN will prbably beat me to it and produce lovely piccies to boot. However it would be interesting. I have a ramp on the bench right now and a coil will only take a moment... Now where did I put the leads for the scope . Ken Ken Smith (ksmith@ihug.co.nz) http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ksmith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 18:36:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA10344; Sun, 25 May 1997 18:36:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:36:01 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC694B.36760860@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: FW: Re : Watson/Teamwork Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:38:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"njxWs3.0.XX2.0aEYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3270 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: Greg Watson[SMTP:gwatson@microtronics.com.au] Sent: Sunday, May 25, 1997 5:27 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork Hawkeye wrote: >=20 > I would like to know what the EMF looks like on Watson's device. Does = it change with the movement of the ball? Would an EMF picture, or video = give us further insite? And if what we are doing now does do into the = history books I would like at least one sentence about me. Hi Hawkeye, Don't understand your request. I will post a series of mag field sims on the ramp. It that what you wanted? Best Regards, Greg -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------------ Yes that is what I am talking about. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 18:37:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA10407; Sun, 25 May 1997 18:36:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:36:27 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC694B.47C6B600@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: FW: Re : Watson/Teamwork Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 19:50:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"179aU1.0.WY2.QaEYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3271 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- From: Stefan Hartmann[SMTP:harti@bbtt.de] Sent: Sunday, May 25, 1997 7:12 PM To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au; freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork At 07:27 26.05.1997 +0930, gwatson@microtronics.com.au wrote: >Hawkeye wrote: >> >> I would like to know what the EMF looks like on Watson's device. Does it change with the movement of the ball? Would an EMF picture, or video give us further insite? And if what we are doing now does do into the history books I would like at least one sentence about me. > >Hi Hawkeye, > >Don't understand your request. > >I will post a series of mag field sims on the ramp. > >It that what you wanted? > He probably means, what I was suggesting a while ago. Put some coils around a few PM magnets of your SMOT and put a scope to these coils and look, if the moving ball induces some voltage (EMF) inside these coils ! The waveform of this EMF would be interesting to study ! Regards, Stefan. -------------------------------------------------- I couldn't say it better. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 18:37:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA10466; Sun, 25 May 1997 18:36:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:36:43 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC694B.4F1D1160@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: To continue... Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 20:35:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"9iyOv2.0.QZ2.gaEYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3273 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Now, this e-mail may not be about ZPE but it may help people talk more = about ZPE. As already mentioned ICQ alows people to know who on their = contact list are online. If everyone got the ICQ program that can be = found at: http://www.mirabilis.com They can easily send files, messages, chat, and send URLs. This would mean that they could continue talking to people on this list = about old subjects, modifications to projects, and other items.=20 Once you get the free program all you have to do is tell us your UIN. If you don't think you need it remember: live chat with only the people you invite into the chat. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 18:46:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA12223; Sun, 25 May 1997 18:45:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:45:30 -0700 Message-Id: <9705260146.AA15545@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: lost email Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:45:22 -0700 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_Safc2.0.q-2.viEYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3274 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! I am hassling with a new computer that occasionally completely freezes. Nothing works but to shut it down, thus losing files. It did so while retrieving all my email of the last week and I lost all messages :-) If anybody wrote me in the last week you'll have to resend it. Sorry about the problems. All Hail the Geat Satan Bill Gates, Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 18:51:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA01646; Sun, 25 May 1997 18:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC694B.3FA876C0@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: FW: Warning: Flexible Strip Magnets Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:45:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"A04u63.0.bP.9bEYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3272 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- From: Epitaxy[SMTP:epitaxy@localaccess.com] Sent: Sunday, May 25, 1997 5:33 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Warning: Flexible Strip Magnets WARNING: The flexible strip magnets are TOTALLY unsuitable for Simple OU toy. They are polarized with south and north poles ON THE SAME SIDE. (ie. SNSNSNSNSNSN like this...). They are used to hold objects down and this pole configuration is much more efficient than one pole on one side and an opposite pole on another side of the strip. Many of the sheet magnets have up to 10 poles per square inch !!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well I think I will try one with strip magnets. They just might be what I want. WARNING: Don't say anything is "TOTALLY unsuitable" untill you try it. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 19:51:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA21802; Sun, 25 May 1997 19:50:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 19:50:42 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC6955.A8057D80@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: More questions... Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 21:49:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wkQYb.0.ZK5.1gFYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3275 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What would happen if a magnetized ball was used? In the search for over-unity wouldn't it be easier to make devices that use friction to make power? What if the ramp was replaced by a series of magnetic rings (large to small in order)? I am just throwing my thoughts into the air and looking at where they land. Robert Hawkins. 'Hawkeye" From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 20:43:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA13861; Sun, 25 May 1997 20:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 20:29:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: bailey@best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 20:30:11 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been Again updated Resent-Message-ID: <"VTSG-1.0.UO3.2EGYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3276 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ Most New Data Files are at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT All the revisions are in the file: http://www.padrak.com/ine/REVISIONS.html ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ May 25, 1997 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 5, No. 2, June 1997 Special Edition for the 4th ISNE A Challenge To Supporters Of New Energy A New Cold Fusion Experimental Device Biological Transmutation Patent Radioactive Waste Amelioration Patent Light Is The Ghost Of Mass Texas A&M Refuses Seminar (On Cold Fusion) $100,000 For Demonstration Of A Free Energy Machine Charge Cluster Transmutation, 4th ISNE Paper Videotape: Free Energy: The Race To Zero Point Conference on the Fundamentals of Physics and Cosmology International Cold Fusion Forum (ICCF-7) Updated: All files for 1997 NEN copyright dates. Announcements Page (Meetings). Products Page (Videotapes) Authors and Subjects Pages Site Counter = 107,231 Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 21:26:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA30996; Sun, 25 May 1997 21:25:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 21:25:51 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 00:25:35 -0400 (EDT) From: woods@most.weird.com (Greg A. Woods) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Re : Watson/Teamwork In-Reply-To: havveye@execpc.com's message of "Sun, May 25, 1997 11:47:56 -0500" regarding "RE: Re : Watson/Teamwork" id <01BC6906.992B4000@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> References: <01BC6906.992B4000@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> Reply-To: woods@weird.com (Greg A. Woods) X-Mailer: ViewMail (vm) Version 5.96 (beta) with GNU Emacs 19.34.1 (m68k.68881-sun-sunos4.1.1, X toolkit) of Thu Sep 12 1996 on most Organization: Planix, Inc.; Toronto, Ontario; Canada Resent-Message-ID: <"5TVJS2.0.Ca7.E3HYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3277 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [ On Sun, May 25, 1997 at 11:47:56 (-0500), havveye@execpc.com wrote: ] > Subject: RE: Re : Watson/Teamwork > > I would like to know what the EMF looks like on Watson's device. Does it = > change with the movement of the ball? Would an EMF picture, or video = > give us further insite? And if what we are doing now does do into the = > history books I would like at least one sentence about me. On that note I recall that the inside back cover of the March 1997 IEEE Spectrum magazine has an advertisement for Ansoft HFSS: Electromagnetic Field Simulation Software. http://www.ansoft.com/. Someone with access to this software or some similar might try building a model of Greg Watson's device(s) to see what's going on (assuming this software can actually model "static" magnetic fields. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 443-1734 VE3TCP robohack!woods Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 22:07:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA21539; Sun, 25 May 1997 21:54:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 21:54:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 06:57:21 +0200 Message-Id: <199705260457.GAA19231@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: ssp@best.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Added Link to JLNaudin´s Page Cc: JNaudin509@AOL.COM Resent-Message-ID: <"HCz582.0.OG5.PUHYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3278 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg and Jean-Louis, I added the link to J-L=B4s SMOT page at my site at: http://www.overunity.de/devices.htm and http://www.overunity.de/news.htm Keep on the good work. Hopefully in about 10 days, we will=20 know if also our flux switch will work OU. It will get a hot summer 1997 ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany http://www.harti.com Webmaster of: www.detours.de www.overunity.de www.berlin-city.com email: harti@harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 22:08:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA21840; Sun, 25 May 1997 21:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 21:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC6956.05BC1F10@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Changes, Friction - tedious notes Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 21:53:03 -0700 Encoding: 26 TEXT, 48 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"gW48X3.0.9L5.rVHYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3279 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Shawn wrote: [snip] >Track 2. With the ball lower in the track: >A. Travel was much slower, but the induced spin (more energy here!) >was huge. >B. The mags did not need to be nearly as close to start the roll. >C. The ball traversed the track, fell off the end and continue on to a >level surface of the same height as the entry. [snip] Thank you, Shawn, for the detailed account! I'm particularly interested in your experiment with different ball-to-track width ratios. A while ago I posted a suggestion about that, but never got a response and haven't had opportunity to try it myself. You've apparently confirmed my hunch. Do I understand it correctly, that you got dramatically better escape with the ball riding lower in the track? Also seems like that faster-spinning ball must be have some interesting currents induced in it, eh? Would be interesting to know how that affects the motion thru the field. BTW, how did you make your wider track? Dan Quickert dequickert@ucdavis.edu 916-756-0575 begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@0$`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, ,````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965N`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````%P```&1E<75I M8VME``@0`0```&4` M``!32$%73E=23U1%.E-.25!44D%#2S)7251(5$A%0D%,3$Q/5T5224Y42$54 M4D%#2SI!5%)!5D5,5T%3355#2%-,3U=%4BQ"55142$5)3D150T5$4U!)3BA- M3U)%14Y%4D=92$52``````(!"1 !````!P0```,$``#E!@``3%I&=4(2_Q/_ M``H!#P(5`J0#Y 7K`H,`4!,#5 (`8V@*P'-E=.XR!@`&PP*#,@/&!Q,"@R(S M#WIH96P#($1LZF<"@S03#7T*@ C/"=GB.Q>?,C4U`H *@0VQP0M@;F2 4\!>@_"$I(L\CWR3O)J$JKRNQ@RO_'[1H M=6=E+BH_NRM/+S]")@(A$0# 9P0@]&1I*)!N'0`TP G@*)"\=&\A,"$@*7 * MP&PIL-TFL6,7,!'P-5)S`9 `(#\@\P-@%1 PCS&?,J\@0_\SU2%#(F$F8!'A M-4$B-B>0^F85`F\-T"#S"? HD !P_RB0!: ", N "E ]<"(!-7"<82 W[SC_ M.@]L929AUT /+J\?AW,(<&8`T#[Q&3VD3?? M&^@=N^\*A30``' @4'D(8">0'(/_/1$%L2$"#; !D ,0*($`T!4%H'4","$* MA4DG;>8@"K$^L&-U"V U\@N ?QT0%Z V\"B!(?%+@07 9?QX< 9Q!X ",!S0 M(,(TD.\-T"GA40$A0BTU8%)@("-]`_!D(-$@(#ZP-H @@$&M'-!H30$V(&4*7 \$?X@5'!'43> M!Y!4P " 5$&G/A$1P"9@;B1'P;&;U((!9"& G)F V(%E@"L#'1^$V`3Z!9FER!X HD-M:L# Q;A&P((!$ M5()-D/\$@3;Q/A%:@06A%Z ?X#8`[R>05F)+!M!"!X;&EK(D%? M@D7P3[%R_BTHL@,`8Q$A0R;@-O U@O]8DB<@`W H$D]T8P).T%[A/P(P!" H M-B'Q(, GD&5H]C\@H A@;"B0-9%I&C5AMFLTT ?@:&TQ7W-A4:'?'^!'A 1@ M5;,@T')?X"$"&UR %0!D2#8*A4)45_\GD&UB-))?P@# 9B%0,U,!ER'!9!\* MP40#D5%U3L"O9B `( J%#;!Q=)5 )O!69"90! `N"8!U"H4Y(#$V+3=W@ J+9@`S-A]Q1'\?T@L*A1;!`'M ``,`$! ``````P`1$ ````! ``

`#T``0````4```!213H@``````,`#33] %-P``5K1I ` end From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 22:39:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA28086; Sun, 25 May 1997 22:27:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 22:27:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC695A.63CD8E00@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: demagnetizing force Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 22:24:07 -0700 Encoding: 20 TEXT, 39 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"GJcNA1.0.ks6.IzHYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3280 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote (in Re: Non anomaly (Re: SMOT)): [snip] >Please remember that the demagnetizing force MUST oppose the magnetization >polarity of a permanent magnet in order to do ANY "damage". This means S-S > or N-N (ie. Repelling mode) is necessary to demagnetize a permanent magnet. [snip] In all of the ramp setups, to make each side assembly, multiple magnets are laid end-to-end with like poles of both magnets facing the same direction. The ends have to be forced together and held there, because in that configuration there are opposing fields at the union between magnets. Is this going to demagnetize them? Dan Quickert dequickert@ucdavis.edu 916-756-0575 begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A0%`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965NFEN9R!F;W)C90"5!P$%@ ,`#@```,T'!0`9`!8`& `'````)P$!(( #``X` M``#-!P4`&0`6``$`,0```#H!`0F `0`A````-34P.#A!,S(W-T0U1# Q,3DU M1D(P,#(P049&-$8W,$8`&0# $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!<` M``!D97%U:6-K97)T0'5C9&%V:7,N961U```#``808^7^5P,`!Q A`@``'@`( M$ $```!E````15!)5$%865=23U1%*$E.4D4Z3D].04Y/34%,62A213I334]4 M*2DZ4TY)4%!,14%315)%345-0D525$A!5%1(141%34%'3D5425I)3D=&3U)# M14U54U1/4%!/4T542$5-04=.10`````"`0D0`0```,,"``"_`@``6 0``$Q: M1G5?P:SV_P`*`0\"%0*D`^0%ZP*#`% 3`U0"`&-H"L!S973N,@8`!L,"@S(# MQ@<3`H,B,P]Z:&5L`R!$;.IG`H,T$PU]"H (SPG9XCL7GS(U-0* "H$-L<$+ M8&YG,3 S%" +"@L2\@P!8P! ($5P:2$!D'AY('<#8'1ES" H"X '\&4Z![ " M(%8@`' #<6P !M $D"!T/Q' !4 DH!U #; `P&=N21(`:7H+@&<@`A!R M`F,=0$U54U0@;WAP<&\CX23R)58DP&E?`B C%R;@"V %$'0$ 00)$$><#>0^&UU;"6@"U G5@0@"L"+'4 + M860X(&YD+2M0_BT[$1SP'* X8"\P. $HT=\'D2EA!N [X3H&9@#0)=*O)/(P M8 > )2!I%Z!C* *_+' LH#@1.R $(!' =B<1_RM@)& F!#KP*U L0"3Q!<#? M`' Z\!3Q00%!<64WD"1@>&-A=2/A'7$DHP6@;OAF:6<(<"?S0C0Z$Y]BQP200@ From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: SMOT Construction Tips Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 22:52:12 -0700 Encoding: 13 TEXT, 37 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"4PyL8.0.eF.SNIYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3281 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: >I have found that a hollow glass marble filled with powdered iron (through >a small drilled hole) achieves greater lift than a hard-steel ball. > >The hard glass surface also decreases friction losses and the powdered iron >would eliminate any eddy current losses in the future. Sounds interesting. Where would one find a hollow glass marble? Dan Quickert dequickert@ucdavis.edu 916-756-0575 begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(AD%`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965N M`' ``0```!L```!213H@4TU/5"!#;VYS=')U8W1I;VX@5&EP#$P,Q0@"PH2 M\@P!8R$`0"!%<&D!D'AY["!W`V 8$#H*CPN1%<)W# $7D![!8P5 'P<='R F M/A_/(-1)(!' =F6"( (0=6YD('01P+T%0&$D< ;P&- 'X&<+8/L$$0# <@)@ M)+$#$":P)1!S`_ E,"!P)> $@25!3PZR_3)@5S"'!F M`- DL = _'-O+2 %D"ZQ$? $( -0^FDT8&DH41C0!! 'D0!P?R42)+ GJS2? M-:\VOS06=_T(8&PE$!4`!W +@"[1.Y'K'H )@&0>@&,(=.<$0++R S-C/Q1.LT'04880!2, ```P`0$ `````#`!$0 M`````$ `!S#P/BN0F&F\`4 `"##P/BN0F&F\`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B ` -`````P`--/TW```>_6F\ ` end From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 23:20:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA02261; Sun, 25 May 1997 23:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC6960.0BAF5C70@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: ICQ Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:04:39 -0700 Encoding: 26 TEXT, 50 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"wIOOC.0.DZ.7ZIYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3282 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hawkeye wrote: >Now, this e-mail may not be about ZPE but it may help >people talk more about ZPE. As already mentioned ICQ >alows people to know who on their contact list are online. >If everyone got the ICQ program that can be found at: >http://www.mirabilis.com >They can easily send files, messages, chat, and send >URLs. This would mean that they could continue talking >to people on this list about old subjects, modifications to >projects, and other items. Once you get the free program >all you have to do is tell us your UIN. > >If you don't think you need it remember: >live chat with only the people you invite into the chat. interesting, quite useful I'm sure. But major benefits of Freenrg list is it is (semi-) public and it is archived. I'd hate to see any discussions of Greg Watson's device go offline at this point. At the very least, we may be making history here, it would be nice to have a full record of it. And an idea said offline may not reach the ear of the one person that may use that idea to break through to a new understanding and implementation... Dan Quickert dequickert@ucdavis.edu 916-756-0575 begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C$&`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965NFAE;-$#($1L9P* M?0J ",_%"=D[%Y\R-34"@ J!@PVQ"V!N9S$P,Q0@%PL*$O(,`6,`0"!(88!W M:V5Y92!W`V#X=&4Z"H4*CPN1%"(<%,L=\!T28P5 (#X>G1_&@$YO=RP@=&@$ M`#@@92T`P ,1`,!Y(/)N'2 @8AS@`: (8 5 V%I012-0(\%I!4 BXCT6(7 = MUQZ_'\\@WG!ESF\+4!S@`9!L:R+0!; ](WDN$W $( = %Z!A9# `C!I M`B )@"!)_$-1)2\F/R=/+;8'0"'@8P0@*-9O(&LC( ?@=\YH,* "("(196D% MP 6@]P(P`- %0&P$`"^A*;$"('LR8"N@+BP?+2\N/S4&22IF(F!V!)!Y*Y$@ M9S\C,3&!*](HP -@"0(@`'@7-A9T3"$;'^="(``' KP$1"/Y] KT&_\4@F M55),/T ;7QQ@1N[K0L@B07<(8&PKP > `Y'_.1,Q@4-Q39,QX@N "E I,_T+ M@&=&CT>?2*]1UC"1*-4_,5,B03)D(Z,&\$8A=6+>:E(11-($< :0:3E@*W+_ M!" PD% _44]27RA7`V!6)9]&`AT@%B %P"1P96T_0+ @3VYC'. W@'4WP/\2 M`#@#`U )X#B&5Y]8KUF_OR](`R!=0A' -U P@F0PH'*=%$$D >03V%G(@!\<75T$F0@#O$:<#,A.B$B%'!O?W11*G$W M]#=2,E!#T471=_\V^F"Y,U%L$`G8 ```,`$! ``````P`1$ ````! ``

`#T``0````4```!213H@``````,`#33] %-P``#^=I ` end From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun May 25 23:27:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA02985; Sun, 25 May 1997 23:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC6961.34E6DAE0@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: lost email Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:13:07 -0700 Encoding: 15 TEXT, 39 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"NVTjL3.0.Yk.tgIYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3283 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Fred, Sorry about your computer troubles. Do you have competent help working on the problem? It is always difficult diagnosing things long-distance, but I have some experience and will offer any help I can give. Can't promise results, but the price is equally null, other than your time :-). Since you invoke the name of Gates I assume you're dealing with Win 95 or NT. I've more experience with the latter and with earlier Windows versions, but may be able to help with 95 also. Feel free to e-mail or call if I may be of assistance. Dan Quickert dequickert@ucdavis.edu 916-756-0575 home 916-754-9794 Tu-Fri 9-5 begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@@&`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965N`' ``0````\```!2 M13H@;&]S="!E;6%I; ```@%Q``$````6`````;QIF^#6,HH(:]5W$="5^P`@ MK_3W#P``'@`># $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!<```!D97%U:6-K M97)T0'5C9&%V:7,N961U```#``80\$GZJP,`!Q#T`0``'@`($ $```!E```` M2$E&4D5$+%-/4E)904)/55193U520T]-4%5415)44D]50DQ%4T1/64]52$%6 M14-/35!%5$5.5$A%3%!73U)+24Y'3TY42$504D]"3$5-/TE425-!3%=!65-$ M249&24-53%1$20`````"`0D0`0```*H"``"F`@``M ,``$Q:1G4>7\YE_P`* M`0\"%0*D`^0%ZP*#`% 3`U0"`&-H"L!S973N,@8`!L,"@S(#Q@<3`H,B,P]Z M:&5L`R!$;+IG`H!]"H (SPG9.Q9O>#(U-0* "H$-L0M@;O!G,3 S%" +"A+R M# &"8P! ($AI($86<18L"H4*A5,%L')Y(%!A!!!U)G$=<2<6<#TBX&4'0"#B`_ A4"!7,0N (#DU(1 %P$Y4^1[0 M22 #( -0"> Y0F7^ M+0# `Q$%L2CP%1$&D"71OSB5,)$Q0245+G8*A40#D?Q1=2,P+] `( J%#; L M(&$_M$!U8V0?< 0`+@4)@'4*A3DQ-BTW\C5"<# U0I ?4"9A0>L`-"TY-SDT M(%2<=2T;@!M@,R M-0J/=QIX(9$>$&,%0$55%9$``4@P```#`! 0``````,` M$1 `````0 `',,"54N"::;P!0 `(,,"54N"::;P!'@`]``$````%````4D4Z /( `````#``TT_3<``"(> ` end From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 00:03:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA05918; Sun, 25 May 1997 23:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC6966.1BD58510@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Simple OU Toy Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:48:07 -0700 Encoding: 27 TEXT, 43 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"9qkUh1.0.MS1.nBJYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3284 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: >Hi Dan, > >Good news about connecting multiple ramps! Looking forward to your design >info. Earlier you mentioned that the drop was lower than the entry height. >How did you solve that? [snip] Hi Michael, Improved by combination of: 1) changed field contours: Narrower magnets, and the angled side-magnet assemblies. 2) getting more lift. Once you get enough lift, the entry height is far enough below the exit field that the ball is not pulled back as much. My connecting "multiple ramps" was nothing elegant. Just a quick-and-dirty insertion of a small primitive ramp at the exit of the new one. In this case the exit of the second ramp was not as high as the exit of the first ramp. That will have to await my building of a second good ramp. Dan Quickert dequickert@ucdavis.edu 916-756-0575 begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@T&`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, ,````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965NP4!!8 #``X```#-!P4`&0`7`# `!P```$ !`2" `P`.```` MS0<%`!D`%P`P``<```! `0$)@ $`(0```#`' ``0```!(` M``!213H@4VEM<&QE($]5(%1O>0````(!<0`!````%@````&\::"YR#**"('5 M=Q'0E?L`(*_T]P\``!X`'@P!````!0```%--5% `````'@`?# $````7```` M9&5Q=6EC:V5R=$!U8V1A=FES+F5D=0```P`&$"=[]E #``<0E (``!X`"! ! M````90```$U)0TA!14Q204Y$04Q,5U)/5$4Z2$E$04XL1T]/1$Y%5U-!0D]5 M5$-/3DY%0U1)3D=-54Q425!,15)!35!33$]/2TE.1T9/4E=!4D143UE/55)$ M15-)1TY)3D9/14%23$E%4ED``````@$)$ $```!-`P``20,``.X%``!,6D9U M'>R4AO\`"@$/`A4"I /D!>L"@P!0$P-4`@!C: K ?,C4U`H *@8,-L0M@ M;F@P0N 9R!M=6PJP M0`&4@IG,S%F")!L*9 J82T0^0AP Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199705260709.AAA04140@mx2.eskimo.com> To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="AAA04140.864630577/mx2.eskimo.com" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to ryb1989@dsuper.net bounced 3 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --AAA04140.864630577/mx2.eskimo.com The original message was received at Sun, 25 May 1997 23:27:54 -0700 (PDT) from smartlst@localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ryb1989@dsuper.net ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to oracle.dsuper.net.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... Addressee unknown 550 ryb1989@dsuper.net... User unknown --AAA04140.864630577/mx2.eskimo.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; mx2.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; ryb1989@dsuper.net Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: dns; oracle.dsuper.net Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 ... Addressee unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 00:04:21 -0700 (PDT) --AAA04140.864630577/mx2.eskimo.com Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA03789; Sun, 25 May 1997 23:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:27:54 -0700 (PDT) From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199705260627.XAA03789@mx2.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #183 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/183 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --AAA04140.864630577/mx2.eskimo.com-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 00:19:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA15709; Mon, 26 May 1997 00:18:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 00:18:48 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 00:18:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705260718.AAA22241@iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: SMOT v1.0 Result & Design Notes Resent-Message-ID: <"vdZa_1.0.Mr3.NbJYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3285 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:14 AM 5/26/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >Michael Randall wrote: >> >> >> USA standard ceramic block magnet dimensions: >> Part No. Grade Thick Width Lenght Cost per Qty 100 >> CB1434 5 0.25 0.375 0.75 $20 > >I would use this one, smaller, easier to make different size arrays. Thanks for the info. >Hi Michael, > >I woulds go for the smaller magnets. I have found that they work out >better. > >As a hint to building the arrays and being able to reuse the magnets, I >stack the maagnets together on a flat steel plate, get them square and >them skim the magnets with a THIN coating of superglue. Let than dry >and then apply to the other side. Now let the steel bar attach by >itself. Building the arrays this way, I have found I can recover most >uf the magnets. Other glues might work better. I just thought of using >strong tape. Should work ok. > > >Best Regards, > Greg Hi Greg, Thanks for the tips, I'll give it a try. Results of experiments today: With Radio Shack magnets (0.75"x 0.25"x 0.875"L) and a close replica of your design. 1. The 0.75" steel ball drops off the 0.5" alum. track to the next track below. 2. The magnetic field still holds the ball lightly at the track below. 3. The next magnetic ramp and assembly pulled the ball away from the first assembly. Next building a second ramp to see if the 2nd magnetic field can carry it up and to the next drop. It should work as you and Dan have verified. I found it interesting that all that was needed was to get the ball to the next ramp. Once there the next magnetic assembly can pull it away even if the first ramp mag. assembly had a hold on it. I don't see any problem in closing the loop with multiple ramps. Design Notes: 1. The width of the magnets should be close to the width of the steel ball. 0.5" steel ball would not work with 0.75" width magnets but did work with 0.625" ball. 2. Greg's design with a magnet width even smaller than steel ball would probably be best. An added benefit being at the end drop the magnetic field would have a smaller effect on the steel ball sitting on the next lower track ramp verses larger width magnets. It works! Thanks again for sharing your designs. Best Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 01:08:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA18875; Mon, 26 May 1997 01:08:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 01:08:14 -0700 Message-ID: <3389448C.20B4@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:36:36 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: lost email References: <9705260146.AA15545@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"415gA1.0.pc4.jJKYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3286 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred Epps wrote: > > Hi Folks! > > I am hassling with a new computer that occasionally completely freezes. > Nothing works but to shut it down, thus losing files. It did so while > retrieving all my email of the last week and I lost all messages :-) > If anybody wrote me in the last week you'll have to resend it. Sorry about > the problems. > > All Hail the Geat Satan Bill Gates, > Fred Hi Fred, I have run Win95 since it came out. Best thing since sliced bread. I use Netscape 3.0 Gold. Seems to be a solid package. As a old computer designer, I would suspect your hardware. Get into the setup and try slowing down the ram. If things settle down, suspect you have some soft ram simms. If not, suspect your MotherBoard. I say again, Win95 seems to be very soild. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 01:19:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA20053; Mon, 26 May 1997 01:19:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 01:19:01 -0700 Message-ID: <33894717.6733@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:47:27 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork References: <01BC6906.992B4000@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_KO_e3.0.3v4.pTKYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3288 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg A. Woods wrote: > > [ On Sun, May 25, 1997 at 11:47:56 (-0500), havveye@execpc.com wrote: ] > > Subject: RE: Re : Watson/Teamwork > > > > I would like to know what the EMF looks like on Watson's device. Does it = > > change with the movement of the ball? Would an EMF picture, or video = > > give us further insite? And if what we are doing now does do into the = > > history books I would like at least one sentence about me. > > On that note I recall that the inside back cover of the March 1997 IEEE > Spectrum magazine has an advertisement for Ansoft HFSS: Electromagnetic > Field Simulation Software. http://www.ansoft.com/. > > Someone with access to this software or some similar might try building > a model of Greg Watson's device(s) to see what's going on (assuming this > software can actually model "static" magnetic fields. > > -- > Greg A. Woods > > +1 416 443-1734 VE3TCP robohack!woods > Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird Hi Greg, I have posted Quick Field Sims to Jean-Louis's web site. I had a look at the site you suggested and at a pricing of over $20,000 Aust, I think I will stay with QField. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 01:25:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA10483; Mon, 26 May 1997 01:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 01:13:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jiyani@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 04:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970526041206_551696720@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Positive Nrg Resent-Message-ID: <"-BlaZ3.0.hZ2.rOKYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3287 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In search of answers for myself, I made a grid on the frosted window and then selected specific squares, and with mental concentration tried to melt a selected spot sooner than the rest of the areas melted. Try it and keep track of the results. This takes a fairly long period of time to obtain the results but perhaps it will enlighten you toward your quest. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 01:37:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA11375; Mon, 26 May 1997 01:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 01:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33894892.2327@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:53:46 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: demagnetizing force References: <01BC695A.63CD8E00@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3NCa41.0.Yn2.jaKYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3289 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan Quickert wrote: > > Epitaxy wrote (in Re: Non anomaly (Re: SMOT)): > > [snip] > >Please remember that the demagnetizing force MUST oppose the > magnetization > >polarity of a permanent magnet in order to do ANY "damage". This means > S-S > > or N-N (ie. Repelling mode) is necessary to demagnetize a permanent > magnet. > [snip] > > In all of the ramp setups, to make each side assembly, multiple magnets are > laid end-to-end with like poles of both magnets facing the same direction. > The ends have to be forced together and held there, because in that > configuration there are opposing fields at the union between magnets. Is > this going to demagnetize them? > > Dan Quickert Hi Dan, Have not seen that happen. The sims I have done suggest they become like a larger magnet. The pull force grows as more magnets are added. This to me indicates that the magnets are moving up their B/H curve, not down. This agrees with theory of long V short magnets and how they self demag. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 01:45:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA12030; Mon, 26 May 1997 01:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 01:34:06 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 04:31:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970526043103_587577254@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, harti@bbtt.de, gwatson@microtronics.com.au Subject: SMOT 1.0 - UPDATE - Quickfield diagrams Resent-Message-ID: <"-4B491.0.nx2.vhKYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3290 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Today, I have updated my web site with the Quick Field simulation pictures of Greg Watson. You will find all these pictures and diagrams about the SMOT's magnetic flux density at : http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/smot1qfl.htm Overunity yours, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 02:06:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA23922; Mon, 26 May 1997 02:06:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 02:06:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3389521F.1502@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:34:31 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Magnets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QF4B62.0.Zr5.y9LYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3291 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Here is the info on my magnet supplier : Company : JayCar Electronics, PO Box 185, Concord NSW, 2137, Australia Phone 61 2 2743 6144 Fax 61 2 2743 2066 They accept : BankCard, Visa, MasterCard, American Express. Product description : TH1876, Frij Magnets-13x9x4mm, Pk100, $4.95 (Aust including 20% sales Tax) Hope this helps, I have verified that strong tape works ok to hold the magnet arrays together. Just use it on both sides. I build my latest arrays using a small flat piece of steel as a base. I stuck the magnets together using the steel base and the two side rails. Get everything together, nice and square and apply a piece of tape to the top of the magnets. Then slide the array off the steel base and apply the tape to the other side. Remove one of the side steel rails and the array is finished. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 02:22:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA25654; Mon, 26 May 1997 02:22:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 02:22:15 -0700 Message-ID: <338955EA.4679@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:50:42 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Nice SMOT Trick Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o2Jrl.0.iG6.7PLYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3293 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Here is a good party trick for the SMOT ramp. Hold 6 to 8 (or what ever you can hold) balls in you hand and drop them onto the flat starting ramp at about 2 per second. Most ramps will support 2 to 3 balls in flight at one time. Its really neat to watch so much mass moving through the SMOT ramp. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 02:26:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA26729; Mon, 26 May 1997 02:26:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 02:26:31 -0700 Message-ID: <338956E4.3BD@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:54:52 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: More questions... References: <01BC6955.A8057D80@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_VQsS1.0.OX6.4TLYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3294 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hawkeye wrote: > > What would happen if a magnetized ball was used? Don't think it would work. I believe part of the secret is the use of a soft ferromagnetic material. > In the search for over-unity wouldn't it be easier to make devices that use friction to make power? > What if the ramp was replaced by a series of magnetic rings (large to small in order)? Could work, but I would worry about the mag field contours on exit. Not too easy to control. > I am just throwing my thoughts into the air and looking at where they land. Its called thinking outside the square. > Robert Hawkins. 'Hawkeye" HI Robert, Thanks for the inout. Keep thinking and BUILD a SMOT ramp. Best Results, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 02:30:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA15959; Mon, 26 May 1997 02:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 02:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338954C7.68F@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:45:51 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: No SMOT balls? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SNxMk3.0.7v3.nLLYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3292 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Greg & all: > > Where are you people getting the balls to use with Greg's SMOT? I keep > seeing mouse balls mentioned. I have two, and there's no ferromagnetic > material in them. And now Epitaxy has hollow glass marbles he can fill with > filings or ferrite?! Hey Epitaxy, I've got some bismuth powder - want to > mix some of that in there and see if the sphere gets even lighter as it > rides the neutral line? If it is a gravitational effect, then Greg's more > advanced design(s) that might use springs for the return force might not > work. > > What kind of mouse balls have iron in them? I'd want to strip off the > rubber, but is the surface under there rough? I don't want to have to > figure out how to sand and polish to a perfect sphere. > > I've got magnets, I've got aluminum channel, I've got Sintra (great plastic > balsa substitute), but ... > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI Hi Rick, Call any bearing supplier. Ask for naked balls. Really! Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 02:30:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA27535; Mon, 26 May 1997 02:30:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 02:30:14 -0700 Message-ID: <338957A4.703@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:58:04 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT v1.0 Result & Design Notes References: <199705260718.AAA22241@iceland.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rVEAp3.0.5k6.bWLYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3295 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > At 07:14 AM 5/26/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: > >Michael Randall wrote: > >> > >> > >> USA standard ceramic block magnet dimensions: > >> Part No. Grade Thick Width Lenght Cost per Qty 100 > >> CB1434 5 0.25 0.375 0.75 $20 > > > >I would use this one, smaller, easier to make different size arrays. > > Thanks for the info. > > >Hi Michael, > > > >I woulds go for the smaller magnets. I have found that they work out > >better. > > > >As a hint to building the arrays and being able to reuse the magnets, I > >stack the maagnets together on a flat steel plate, get them square and > >them skim the magnets with a THIN coating of superglue. Let than dry > >and then apply to the other side. Now let the steel bar attach by > >itself. Building the arrays this way, I have found I can recover most > >uf the magnets. Other glues might work better. I just thought of using > >strong tape. Should work ok. > > > > > >Best Regards, > > Greg > > Hi Greg, > > Thanks for the tips, I'll give it a try. > > Results of experiments today: > With Radio Shack magnets (0.75"x 0.25"x 0.875"L) and a close replica of your > design. > > 1. The 0.75" steel ball drops off the 0.5" alum. track to the next track below. > 2. The magnetic field still holds the ball lightly at the track below. > 3. The next magnetic ramp and assembly pulled the ball away from the first > assembly. > > Next building a second ramp to see if the 2nd magnetic field can carry it up > and to the next drop. It should work as you and Dan have verified. > > I found it interesting that all that was needed was to get the ball to the > next ramp. Once there the next magnetic assembly can pull it away even if > the first ramp mag. assembly had a hold on it. I don't see any problem in > closing the loop with multiple ramps. > > Design Notes: > 1. The width of the magnets should be close to the width of the steel ball. > 0.5" steel ball would not work with 0.75" width magnets but did work with > 0.625" ball. > 2. Greg's design with a magnet width even smaller than steel ball would > probably be best. An added benefit being at the end drop the magnetic field > would have a smaller effect on the steel ball sitting on the next lower > track ramp verses larger width magnets. > > It works! Thanks again for sharing your designs. > > Best Regards, > Michael Hi Michael, Glad to hear of your success. Good work. Any chance of pictures? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 03:19:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA00466; Mon, 26 May 1997 03:18:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 03:18:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199705261018.MAA13316@mail2.isdnet.net> From: "chriser" To: Cc: Subject: Magnets Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 12:18:27 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"y_ZH13.0.B7.CEMYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3297 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Pascal You can find the magnets not expensive ( 6$ for 6 magnets 9mmx20x10mm) in supermarket : the magnets use for board magnetic. Greettings "Vous pouvez trouver des aimants, pas chers,( exemple 24 fr les 6 dim 9mmx20mmX10mm) dans les supermarchés : Les aimants utilisés pour les tableaux magnétiques. Greetings" Chriser - France serchri@hol.fr From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 03:28:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA19644; Mon, 26 May 1997 03:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 03:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970526031638.00ada010@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 03:16:40 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: RE: SMOT Construction Tips Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"b9D4s.0.qo4.4DMYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3296 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: One of these miniature versions of the child's toy that you shake and a differently colored liquids bubble up inside (kind of like a lavalamp). It is called "Magic marble". You drill a little hole in it where they epoxied the original inlet hole and replace the colored liquid with powdered iron and than epoxy it closed again. Presto - A very hard ball (low friction) with little eddy currents and high magnetic permeability. At 10:52 PM 5/25/97 -0700, you wrote: >Epitaxy wrote: > > >I have found that a hollow glass marble filled with powdered iron (through > >a small drilled hole) achieves greater lift than a hard-steel ball. > > > >The hard glass surface also decreases friction losses and the powdered iron > >would eliminate any eddy current losses in the future. > >Sounds interesting. Where would one find a hollow glass marble? > >Dan Quickert >dequickert@ucdavis.edu >916-756-0575 > > >Attachment Converted: "c:\DOWN\WINMAIL23.DAT" > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 03:40:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA20818; Mon, 26 May 1997 03:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 03:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970526032751.00ad6780@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 03:27:52 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: No SMOT balls? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"7tm1e.0.A55.cNMYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3298 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For regular bearing balls go to any shop that sells bearings. They always have replacement balls on hand. In USA the chain store called Bearing Inc. carries 6 pieces package of 1 inch (25mm) balls for $5.75. Smaller sizes also available ...but bearing balls do not have the best ferromagnetic properties, they are very hard (they ought to be for a ball bearing :) To get the best of both worlds get yourself one of these "Magic marbles" or miniature "Snow globes", drill a little pinhole, pour out the liquid and/or dissolve any plastic parts inside with paint thinner and then fill it up with powdered iron (not filings, they are to coarse for the small hole). Epoxy the hole shut and polish it up. Presto - A very hard ball (low friction) with little eddy currents and high magnetic permeability. ...or skin a mouse ball if you want. Hint: heating it up burns of the rubber and makes the hard steel softer..., unfortunately softer on the outside as well, which means higher friction. At 07:51 PM 5/25/97 -1000, you wrote: >Greg & all: > >Where are you people getting the balls to use with Greg's SMOT? I keep >seeing mouse balls mentioned. I have two, and there's no ferromagnetic >material in them. And now Epitaxy has hollow glass marbles he can fill with >filings or ferrite?! Hey Epitaxy, I've got some bismuth powder - want to >mix some of that in there and see if the sphere gets even lighter as it >rides the neutral line? If it is a gravitational effect, then Greg's more >advanced design(s) that might use springs for the return force might not >work. > >What kind of mouse balls have iron in them? I'd want to strip off the >rubber, but is the surface under there rough? I don't want to have to >figure out how to sand and polish to a perfect sphere. > >I've got magnets, I've got aluminum channel, I've got Sintra (great plastic >balsa substitute), but ... > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 03:41:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA02877; Mon, 26 May 1997 03:41:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 03:41:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970526034132.00ad6700@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 03:41:34 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: lost email Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qVg3Y2.0.si.QZMYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3299 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Don't forget the Service Pack 1 and Service Pack 2 and than the famous 28 "Win96" patches, to correct all of the holes and bugs in the original release of Windows95. ...and NO, I do not mean Microsoft Plus addon ! At 05:36 PM 5/26/97 +0930, you wrote: >Fred Epps wrote: >> >> Hi Folks! >> >> I am hassling with a new computer that occasionally completely freezes. >> Nothing works but to shut it down, thus losing files. It did so while >> retrieving all my email of the last week and I lost all messages :-) >> If anybody wrote me in the last week you'll have to resend it. Sorry about >> the problems. >> >> All Hail the Geat Satan Bill Gates, >> Fred > >Hi Fred, > >I have run Win95 since it came out. Best thing since sliced bread. I >use Netscape 3.0 Gold. Seems to be a solid package. As a old computer >designer, I would suspect your hardware. Get into the setup and try >slowing down the ram. If things settle down, suspect you have some soft >ram simms. If not, suspect your MotherBoard. I say again, Win95 seems >to be very soild. > > >Best Regards, > Greg > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 04:07:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA23238; Mon, 26 May 1997 03:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 03:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970526035522.00ad7650@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 03:55:24 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: SMOT balls? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"l7C5D2.0._g5.LnMYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3300 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Err... It should have been Bearings Inc. Also in response to the objections some of you voiced:... the glass marbles ARE harder than the bearing balls. As a matter of fact GLASS is harder than most iron based alloys ! At 03:27 AM 5/26/97 -0700, I wrote: > >For regular bearing balls go to any shop that sells bearings. They always >have replacement balls on hand. In USA the chain store called Bearing Inc. >carries 6 pieces package of 1 inch (25mm) balls for $5.75. Smaller sizes >also available > >...but bearing balls do not have the best ferromagnetic properties, they >are very hard (they ought to be for a ball bearing :) > >For best of both worlds, fill up a glass ball with powdered iron... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 06:34:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA15570; Mon, 26 May 1997 06:34:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 06:34:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:33:58 -0400 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: richarda@icx.net (Richard Austin) Subject: Re: To continue... Resent-Message-ID: <"DmpEU1.0.Bp3.D5PYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3301 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Just a note... It's not available for all operating systems yet...I can't use it yet. >Now, this e-mail may not be about ZPE but it may help people talk more >about ZPE. As already mentioned ICQ alows people to know who on their >contact list are online. If everyone got the ICQ program that can be found >at: >http://www.mirabilis.com >They can easily send files, messages, chat, and send URLs. >This would mean that they could continue talking to people on this list >about old subjects, modifications to projects, and other items. >Once you get the free program all you have to do is tell us your UIN. >If you don't think you need it remember: >live chat with only the people you invite into the chat. Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 07:28:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA04963; Mon, 26 May 1997 07:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:15:10 -0400 (EDT) From: woods@most.weird.com (Greg A. Woods) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork In-Reply-To: Greg Watson's message of "Mon, May 26, 1997 17:47:27 +0930" regarding "Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork" id <33894717.6733@microtronics.com.au> References: <01BC6906.992B4000@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> <33894717.6733@microtronics.com.au> Reply-To: woods@weird.com (Greg A. Woods) X-Mailer: ViewMail (vm) Version 5.96 (beta) with GNU Emacs 19.34.1 (m68k.68881-sun-sunos4.1.1, X toolkit) of Thu Sep 12 1996 on most Organization: Planix, Inc.; Toronto, Ontario; Canada Resent-Message-ID: <"Kj2ah.0.OD1.4jPYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3302 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [ On Mon, May 26, 1997 at 17:47:27 (+0930), Greg Watson wrote: ] > Subject: Re: Re : Watson/Teamwork > > I have posted Quick Field Sims to Jean-Louis's web site. > > I had a look at the site you suggested and at a pricing of over $20,000 > Aust, I think I will stay with QField. I was afraid of that, and I admit I've not had time to browse their site myself. Anyone who can advertise a specialized product like that on even the inside back cover of something like Spectrum must be charging a fair bit. Now that I've taken a quick tour I see that their EM Product family (in particular the Maxwell EM 3D Field Simulaor and the Electromechanical System Simulator) is indeed quite impressive. If anyone on the list does have access to this software it would be most interesting to see what they can discover from using it. Part of their price may include some hardware -- I read in the EM 3D press release of custom ASIC devices to assist the animation so maybe the software itself is not the larger part of the total price. I was not aware though that Quick Field was indeed a software package. Is there any chance it or something like it would run on unix/X11? I've access to all kinds of workstations and of course can use my display at home and powerful SGI or Alpha processors at client sites, or even my own DEC Alpha workstation. However I don't have a PC in the house, and no plans to acquire one, even if it means doing without the use of software like this. Soon my Alpha may run PC software though.... I'm particularly interested in software which could animate field simulations. I once dreamt (whether it was a day-dream or a true REM sleep dream I don't recall) of using magnets on ramps and gravity like this many years ago. I never really tried though as I couldn't see any way to make the field give up the ball if it were strong enough to lift it up the ramp in the first place. Unfortunately my undersanding of magnetics is extremely limited and my ability to visualize fields is nearly nil despite having spent many hours with magnets and iron filings in my younger years. I will build the "toys" though if I can find some spare time in my workshop, and if I can acquire the necessary materials for the experiments. However since software is my forte these days and since a full simulation may both be a great "marketing" aid as well as a tool that may help us understand what's going on, I'd like to see what's going on at the theoretical level. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 443-1734 VE3TCP robohack!woods Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 08:02:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA09054; Mon, 26 May 1997 07:51:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:51:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Tixif@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970526104929_1256851263@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: ICQList Resent-Message-ID: <"8ugvy1.0.ND2.UDQYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3303 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'm on the ICQ List. To develop the list, select only the address list and then reply and add yours. Shawn Shawn Stroud #1332533 (EMail=Tixif@aol.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 08:55:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA15464; Mon, 26 May 1997 08:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3389A9D4.5C5E@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:18:44 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: WWW Page Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cip7C1.0.Un3.G-QYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3304 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, New WWW page with Greg Watson Projecs online. I hope to have my own photos also soon online, But I have not yet found the right magnets! (the little ones are hard to find here...) See it at HTTP://www.worldonline.nl/~catware -- Thanks, Ronald de mol. catware@worldonline.nl WEB Page HTTP://www.worldonline.nl/~catware From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 10:00:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA25916; Mon, 26 May 1997 09:59:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:59:36 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 12:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970526125850_-1398170008@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: Tixif@aol.com Subject: Re : ICQList Resent-Message-ID: <"9qh4F2.0.qK6.t5SYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3305 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: << I'm on the ICQ List. To develop the list, select only the address list and then reply and add yours. Shawn Stroud #1332533 (EMail=Tixif@aol.com) Jean-Louis Naudin #747846 (Email=JNaudin509@aol.com) >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 10:26:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA24598; Mon, 26 May 1997 10:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:10:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705261708.NAA28412@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: SMOT v1.0 Result & Design Notes To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 13:08:51 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199705260718.AAA22241@iceland.it.earthlink.net> from "Michael Randall" at May 26, 97 00:18:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"we1pm2.0.C06.eFSYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3306 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Look, can you make the field cycle? Then when the ball falls down, it can be lifted back up. Where is the energy coming from? The earth's rotation? The gravity? Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 10:37:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA26456; Mon, 26 May 1997 10:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970526102117.00eb49e0@inc-g.com> X-Sender: maryc@inc-g.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:21:17 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Mary C." Subject: Re: lost email In-Reply-To: <9705260146.AA15545@mail1.halcyon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"P3z--3.0.GT6.CRSYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3307 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, Check the voltage jumpers for the CPU located on the motherboard. Most Intel chips want 3.3V exactly, while the default on many motherboards is 3.45V or higher. The symptoms of the mismatch match your description, especially on new "unproven" machines . Mary C. At 06:45 PM 5/25/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Folks! > > I am hassling with a new computer that occasionally completely freezes. >Nothing works but to shut it down, thus losing files. It did so while >retrieving all my email of the last week and I lost all messages :-) >If anybody wrote me in the last week you'll have to resend it. Sorry about >the problems. > > All Hail the Geat Satan Bill Gates, > Fred > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 10:43:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA02613; Mon, 26 May 1997 10:43:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:43:00 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC69D2.4F8FBD00@handkase.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: ICQ/ramp power! Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 12:36:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC69D2.4FF47240" Resent-Message-ID: <"jzQaB3.0.ge.ZkSYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3308 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC69D2.4FF47240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your talks (via chat ICQ) can be saved. any messages will be in your = history folder. I am not saying all talks should be on ICQ, but if you = are working on a device another person is working on, and they are = online, you can talk to them and see what you come up with. What you = come up with can be sent to this list.=20 BTW: The demagnetizing of the magnets might be the energy source that = the device uses. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC69D2.4FF47240 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ii4RAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACABAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEcAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbQBTTVRQAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tpbW8uY29tAAAe AAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAFQAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tpbW8uY29tAAAAAAMA FQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABcAAAAnZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20nAAACAQswAQAA ABoAAABTTVRQOkZSRUVOUkctTEBFU0tJTU8uQ09NAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAANcNAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAUAAAAUkU6 IElDUS9yYW1wIHBvd2VyIQAbBgEFgAMADgAAAM0HBQAaAAwAJAABAAEAJQEBIIADAA4AAADNBwUA GgAMABwABQABACEBAQmAAQAhAAAANEI4MjEyMjBDMkQ1RDAxMUFEQzY0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAAyQYB A5AGADgDAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAAHikR/tpvAEe AHAAAQAAAAgAAABSRTogSUNRAAIBcQABAAAAGwAAAAG8aZqx8jKKCGbVdxHQlfsAIK/09w8AF954 YQAeAB4MAQAAAAMAAABNUwAAHgAfDAEAAAAYAAAAV2luZG93cy9NQUlMQk9YL01BSUxCT1gAAwAG EAQL4x8DAAcQPAEAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAFlPVVJUQUxLUyhWSUFDSEFUSUNRKUNBTkJFU0FWRURB TllNRVNTQUdFU1dJTExCRUlOWU9VUkhJU1RPUllGT0xERVJJQU1OT1RTQVlJTkdBTExUQUxLU1NI T1VMREJFT05JQ1EAAAAAAgEJEAEAAADLAQAAxwEAALUCAABMWkZ1Gojqlv8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMA UALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMztwLkBxMCgzQDxhTINQPGXQ/d fQqACM8J2TsY7zI8NTUCgAqBDbELYG5neDEwMxRQCwoUUQvxIEpZCGEgAZBsawQgKBp2BzAgEXEF QElDUQYpHoADkWJlIHNhknYJgC4gAHB5IAeB7R+gZweRA/BsAyAfcQuA1CB5HaJoBAB0BbAgMC0C EGwEgR/wSSAAbSCsbm8FQB+geQuAZyAA8yEBHeRzaAhgIoAfYgIg9R7SLB9gdQVABpAhgiAA9xjw INAFsGsjoiUhHnANsF0eUGMfgABwI0BoBJAg+nAEkHMlIQQAJoklgABwXyTQKAEgMCZSAiBsC4Bl 3yWAJhIfMh3iHdBvKeIjEH8pshGwJnEeoisDA3AfgHXucCDRKAAf8Fcs7y3xHyf/CfAFQCvTKMEq oBPAH/AKhYEKhUJUVzogVCgQiydRAMBnKsB0aXom0x8l8CgBIEAy4wQgbWlnvmgFQB9xM8IJ8ASQ ZyAwfyiACHAnoSgAHrEzwidldS0RsHMxJxgRADhAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAEAAABAAAcwAM67K/pp vAFAAAgwAM67K/ppvAEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAIPX ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC69D2.4FF47240-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 11:10:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA08293; Mon, 26 May 1997 11:09:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:09:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3389FB8E.59A5@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 14:07:26 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Energy from "Nowhere" References: <01BC6906.9F17F940@bantha.mdm.mke.execpc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XmxBl2.0.T12.D7TYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3309 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hawkeye wrote: > > It is good to not only know how to make something work, but also know why it works. From what I have read the energy comes from a field that keeps objects in existance. > > What would happed if you created a "Black hole." or multiple "Black holes" around one area where all the ZPE was going into the "Black holes" that capture the ZPE instead of keeping the objects in the one area in existance? > > just a question. It would be a really bad thing. We might have to use a great deal more energy to repair this 'condition of space' created by the device than the total ammount of energy that device had produced during its total time of operation. From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 11:24:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA11339 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 26 May 1997 11:24:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:24:06 -0700 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Mon May 26 11:23:58 1997 Received: from localhost (localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with internal id LAA03003; Mon, 26 May 1997 11:23:58 -0700 Old-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:23:58 -0700 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199705261823.LAA03003@mx1.eskimo.com> To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="LAA03003.864671038/mx1.eskimo.com" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to ryb1989@dsuper.net bounced 4 times X-Diagnostic: Bounces exceed threshold of 4 X-Diagnostic: Removed: ryb1989@dsuper.net 32746 X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --LAA03003.864671038/mx1.eskimo.com The original message was received at Mon, 26 May 1997 10:43:58 -0700 from smartlst@localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ryb1989@dsuper.net ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to oracle.dsuper.net.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... Addressee unknown 550 ryb1989@dsuper.net... User unknown --LAA03003.864671038/mx1.eskimo.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; mx1.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:43:58 -0700 Final-Recipient: rfc822; ryb1989@dsuper.net Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: dns; oracle.dsuper.net Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 ... Addressee unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:15:44 -0700 --LAA03003.864671038/mx1.eskimo.com Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA02746; Mon, 26 May 1997 10:43:58 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:43:58 -0700 From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199705261743.KAA02746@mx1.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #184 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/184 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --LAA03003.864671038/mx1.eskimo.com-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 11:38:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA04403; Mon, 26 May 1997 11:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970526112235.00ae5728@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:22:36 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: SMOT v1.0 Result & Design Notes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Nwcal.0.i41.rKTYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3310 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Perhaps when the ball is subjected to the magnetic field (on the neutral center line) it looses a little of gravitational weight and/or mass inertia, thus it is easier to lift it up the ramp. The ball regains all of its weight and/or mass after it exits the ramp and the net difference manifests as the extra kinetic energy. Mr. Watson suggested that if this theory is correct the SMOT should be changed to SMAGOT (Simple Magnetic Anti Gravity OU Toy :) Of course the electron (and/or nucleus) ground state ZPE regeneration is still a plausible explanation for the source of energy as well as thermal negative-entropy, vibration rectification, chemical bond energy of the ferrite or PMs, remanent ferrite magnetization, etc... What matters the most - it works ! At 01:08 PM 5/26/97 -0400, you wrote: >Look, can you make the field cycle? Then when the ball falls down, it can >be lifted back up. Where is the energy coming from? The earth's >rotation? The gravity? > >Andrew -- >+-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ >| Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | >| Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | >+----------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| | >| "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | >| ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | >| ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | >| | >+----------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 11:45:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA15091; Mon, 26 May 1997 11:44:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:44:39 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970526114441.00ae6bec@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:44:42 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: RE: ICQ/ramp power! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0govB2.0.ih3.MeTYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3311 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: According to conventional theory, the demagnetization of the magnets can only happen if the magnets are subjected to an opposing (read: Repelling) magnetic field above the intrinsic demagnetization threshold. (That is aside from mechanical shock and Curie temperature.) In SMOT the magnet arrays are in the attracting mode and the eddy currents in the ball do not exceed the demagnetization threshold. The eddies are easily suppressed by using a glass ball filled with iron powder. In any case the magnetic field created by the eddy currents will not have greater intensity than the field of permanent magnets that are inducing the eddies in the ball with their magnetic field. If anything the presence of the ball between the two attracting magnetic arrays only helps to maintain the magnet's magnetization, because the ball form a high permeability path for the magnetic flux IN THE SAME DIRECTION as the polarization of the magnet's domains ! Look at the demagnetization values for various magnetic alloys. Material Grade Demagnet Curie BH-Strength NdFeB g39 - 21,300 150 40 SmCo g26 - 10,000 300 26 AlNiCo g05 - 640 540 5.5 Ceramic g08 - 3,200 300 3.5 (BaFe2O3 or SrFe2O3 ceramic alloys) Flexible g01 - 1,300 100 0.6 Grade = Material quality grade (alloy type ie. ALNICO 5) Demagnet = Minimum Demagnetizing force in Oersteds Curie = Curie Temperature in Degrees Celsius BH-Strength = Maximum Energy Product in Mega Gauss Oersteds (MGO) The above clearly shows that AlNiCo is THE EASIEST to demagnetize. However AlNiCo has the highest Curie temperature of them all - 540degC. The Neodymium (NdFeB) magnets are the strongest (ie. they have the highest energy product). Flexible magnets are the weakest. At 12:36 PM 5/26/97 -0500, you wrote: > >BTW: The demagnetizing of the magnets might be the energy source that the device uses. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 11:49:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA17031; Mon, 26 May 1997 11:48:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:48:42 -0700 Message-Id: <9705261849.AA18206@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: computer problems, and inspiration Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:42:34 -0700 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Eq9wa2.0.w94.8iTYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3312 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Dan, Greg, Epitaxy, and Mary...and all on the lists, I want to thank you all for the help that you've given me with my computer problem. Everything is running smoothly now (fingers crossed). The problem turned out be setup program that the manufacturer (NEC) "suggested" I use, ostensibly to make the desktop look like an NEC desktop, whatever that is. Of course I didn't run it. Turns out that Win95 won't run unless you do this! The variety of possible fixes suggested opened my eyes to the sheer number of things that can go wrong witrh a a computer. Kinda frightening, it's amazing that any of them work at all. The assistance I've been given, as well as the cooperation that Greg's device has engendered, give me new hope for the human race. As a bookseller that's been working with the public for 15 years with only short vacations, I have gone well into burnout. Burnout is characterized by a loss of idealism and cynicism about people and their motivations. Seeing the true idealism of Greg and all those who are working toward the same ends is REALLY inspiring to me. I can see the basic goodness of people again. This is a very important lesson for me. I hope that in my theoretical way I can be of some assistance to this project at some point, although I am at a loss to know how at this time. I am installing a flatbed scanner today (more fingers crossed). My intention is to make my voluminous files available to all on the list electronically. I think this is what I can do at this point to help the Quest for Overunity, as Jean-Louis calls it. Heartfelt Thanks, Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 12:01:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA21443; Mon, 26 May 1997 12:00:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 12:00:02 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970526115908.00ac6188@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:59:10 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Reflecting the flux of the SMOT magnets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Ehlax3.0.vE5.ksTYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3313 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes the eddie currents in the ball do reflect the magnetic flux of the magnet arrays back into the magnets. But this effect is very small and insignificant, unable to cause the demagnetization of the permanent magnets. Reflecting the full flux into the permanent magnet by eddie currents would require a superconducting ball anyway and zero distance between the ball and the magnetic array on either side of the ramp. In reality very little of the magnetic flux is reflected into the magnets by the eddie currents in the ball, most of the eddies are dissipated in the form of RI^2 heating within the ball and their magnetic flux dispersed in the air gap between the ball and magnetic arrays of the SMOT. Even under ideal conditions only 100% (not more) of the magnetic flux could be reflected back into the magnets. The eddies in the ball are easily suppressed by using a glass ball filled with iron powder. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 13:31:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA03210; Mon, 26 May 1997 13:30:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 13:30:21 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:29:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970526162939_1223327305@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: SMOT v1.0 Result & Design Notes Resent-Message-ID: <"SppPX.0.vn.SBVYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3314 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 26/05/1997 20:40:30 , Epitaxy wrote : << Mr. Watson suggested that if this theory is correct the SMOT should be changed to SMAGOT (Simple Magnetic Anti Gravity OU Toy :) Of course the electron (and/or nucleus) ground state ZPE regeneration is still a plausible explanation for the source of energy as well as thermal negative-entropy, vibration rectification, chemical bond energy of the ferrite or PMs, remanent ferrite magnetization, etc... What matters the most - it works ! >> Hi all, You may find some interesting explanations about the Magnetic Regauging effect at : http://www.virtualtimes.com/writers/bearden/mageng/p06.htm Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 14:37:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA14486; Mon, 26 May 1997 14:36:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 14:36:42 -0700 Message-ID: <3389F693.7811@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 22:46:11 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT QField Sims References: <3388D7A2.124C@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YjQhN3.0.AY3.e9WYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3315 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have posted 8 QField sims of the SMOT device to Jean-Louis. They > should shortly be available to view. Jean-Louis will advise us when he > is finished. > > > > Build a SMOT, if you haven't started DO IT NOW! > > Best Regards, > Greg Hi Greg, Thanks for the 8 Qfield Gifs. Could you make another 4 of them ? Like the 'Looking into the exit, linked ramp below', but then with a dropping ball, in four steps valling from the top exit to the bottem next ramp ? And for the BUILD phase... I have earlyer already 2 models made, one with round alnico-5 magnets and one with 50x19x5 magnets (Both a succes for a SINGLE model). The problem is that I really need the 13x10x5 magnets and I can't find them anywhere yet. Here comes my problem: In ALL the models I have made and seen, the exit point is just before the start of the last magnet. (could more people confirm that ?, or am i wrong.) if the lenght of one magnet is 50mm (as in my earlyer model) Then there is a approx 60mm 'behind' the drop point area and that is NOT good for linking ramps toghetter I think. And as second reason I want to duplicate the project as good as possible. Tomorrow I gonna call all the magnet supplyers I can find, in the hope that there is at least ONE that sells the 13x10x5 magnets ! (or verry similair ones.) If so I buy 1000 of them if not to $$$. Thanks in advance. Ronald. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 15:07:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA18712; Mon, 26 May 1997 15:06:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:06:40 -0700 Message-Id: <199705262206.AAA15421@centaure.worldnet.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Pascal" Organization: vmf To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 00:09:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: lost email Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19970526102117.00eb49e0@inc-g.com> References: <9705260146.AA15545@mail1.halcyon.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"s2I7a1.0.Ga4.kbWYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3317 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Also, an uncooled CPU processor is often the cause of spurious system failure and unexpected errors ! Pascal Cavy From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 15:07:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA18668; Mon, 26 May 1997 15:06:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:06:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199705262206.AAA15417@centaure.worldnet.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Pascal" Organization: vmf To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 00:09:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: ICQ/ramp power! Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.32.19970526114441.00ae6bec@mail.localaccess.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"bgvkd3.0.aZ4.fbWYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3316 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Just another fool's out of the square idea : To verify that magnet strength is "conserved" or not, why not design a SMOT stress machine ? Greg, I think, told us to try to drop 2 balls a second in the ramp... We could imagine a system that collect the balls at exit and feed back the system upon entry. Just a means as artificially closing the loop. After days of continuous run, if magnets are consumed a little by the process, is there a mean to measure the loss, if any ? Pascal cavy > Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:44:42 -0700 > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > From: Epitaxy > Subject: RE: ICQ/ramp power! > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > According to conventional theory, the demagnetization of the magnets > can only happen if the magnets are subjected to an opposing (read: > Repelling) magnetic field above the intrinsic demagnetization > threshold. (That is aside from mechanical shock and Curie > temperature.) > > In SMOT the magnet arrays are in the attracting mode and the eddy > currents in the ball do not exceed the demagnetization threshold. > The eddies are easily suppressed by using a glass ball filled with > iron powder. In any case the magnetic field created by the eddy > currents will not have greater intensity than the field of permanent > magnets that are inducing the eddies in the ball with their magnetic > field. > > If anything the presence of the ball between the two attracting > magnetic arrays only helps to maintain the magnet's magnetization, > because the ball form a high permeability path for the magnetic flux > IN THE SAME DIRECTION as the polarization of the magnet's domains ! > > Look at the demagnetization values for various magnetic alloys. > > > Material Grade Demagnet Curie BH-Strength > > NdFeB g39 - 21,300 150 40 > SmCo g26 - 10,000 300 26 > AlNiCo g05 - 640 540 5.5 > Ceramic g08 - 3,200 300 3.5 (BaFe2O3 or SrFe2O3 > ceramic alloys) Flexible g01 - 1,300 100 0.6 > > > Grade = Material quality grade (alloy type ie. ALNICO 5) > Demagnet = Minimum Demagnetizing force in Oersteds > Curie = Curie Temperature in Degrees Celsius > BH-Strength = Maximum Energy Product in Mega Gauss Oersteds (MGO) > > > The above clearly shows that AlNiCo is THE EASIEST to demagnetize. > However AlNiCo has the highest Curie temperature of them all - > 540degC. The Neodymium (NdFeB) magnets are the strongest (ie. they > have the highest energy product). Flexible magnets are the weakest. > > > > At 12:36 PM 5/26/97 -0500, you wrote: > > > >BTW: The demagnetizing of the magnets might be the energy source that the > device uses. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 15:25:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA21607; Mon, 26 May 1997 15:24:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:24:56 -0700 Message-ID: <338A0D4F.402C@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 07:53:11 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: More questions... References: <199705261711.NAA28728@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ma_iY2.0.SH5.rsWYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3319 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Science wig. sig. wrote: > > Does the ball float above the ramp? No, but magnetic forces reduce the frictional losses as it climbs the ramp. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 15:32:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA02711; Mon, 26 May 1997 15:18:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:18:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705262219.SAA07418@ns.bluegrass.net> From: "Sam Gordon" To: Subject: This SMOT thing works!! Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:13:41 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0bmMJ2.0.Cg.xmWYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3318 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Greg and all, First thanks for the posted info. I made a ramp somewhat like the one in your diagram. (do in part that most stores are closed today) I ended up glueing a piece of aluminum u channel on an old cd case then glueing a cd case on each side of the channel. I couldn't find any small refrig magnets so I used 16 round 11mm x 4mm ceramic mags i had here, That I glued on a piece of hacksaw blade which is 10mm wide x 1.5 or 2mm thick I managed to get the steel ball to roll up the ramp 8 mm higher than the starting elev. As soon as work and time permit I shall build one exactly as you have shown. I found the bearings at Napa auto parts the guys there save them for sling shot ammo. Looking forward to future posts. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 15:41:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA04293; Mon, 26 May 1997 15:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338A0E02.6590@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 07:56:10 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ICQ/ramp power! References: <01BC69D2.4F8FBD00@handkase.mdm.mke.execpc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"APE8f2.0.x21.2xWYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3320 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hawkeye wrote: > > BTW: The demagnetizing of the magnets might be the energy source that the device uses. Hi Hawkeye, Haven't seen that happen to any modern magnet. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 15:48:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA26943 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 26 May 1997 15:48:50 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:48:50 -0700 X-Envelope-From: harti@harti.com Mon May 26 15:48:49 1997 Received: from mail.bbtt.com ([193.203.161.7]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA26910 for ; Mon, 26 May 1997 15:48:45 -0700 Received: from ns.bbtt.de ([193.203.161.162]) by mail.bbtt.com (8.6.9/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA28570; Tue, 27 May 1997 00:51:49 +0200 Old-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 00:51:49 +0200 Message-Id: <199705262251.AAA28570@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@shell2.ba.best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Added Link to JLNaudin´s Page Cc: JNaudin509@AOL.COM, gwatson@microtronics.com.au X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg and Jean-Louis, I guess, that the field change of B via dB/dx in this picture must be different for the entrance and the exit, so the ball will role up and easily exit. If -dB/dx(exit) > dB/dx(entrance) the ball will roll up and exit easily ! Have a look again at this pic ! http://members.aol.com/overunity2/images/s-top-xy.gif Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 15:53:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA27610; Mon, 26 May 1997 15:52:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:52:23 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 00:55:10 +0200 Message-Id: <199705262255.AAA28579@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: -dB/dx(exit) > dB/dx(entrance) Cc: JNaudin509@AOL.COM, gwatson@microtronics.com.au Resent-Message-ID: <"KOrAI1.0.Hl6.bGXYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3323 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg and Jean-Louis, I guess, that the field change of B via dB/dx in this picture must be different for the entrance and the exit, so the ball will role up and easily exit. If -dB/dx(exit) > dB/dx(entrance) the ball will roll up and exit easily ! Have a look again at this pic ! http://members.aol.com/overunity2/images/s-top-xy.gif Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 15:56:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA28749; Mon, 26 May 1997 15:55:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:55:51 -0700 Message-ID: <338A1483.24A8@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:23:55 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Added Link to JLNaudin´s Page References: <199705262251.AAA28570@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"72fWe3.0.017.qJXYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3324 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Hi Greg and Jean-Louis, > > I guess, that the field change of B via > dB/dx > in this picture must be different for the > entrance and the exit, so the ball will role up > and easily exit. If > > -dB/dx(exit) > dB/dx(entrance) > > the ball will roll up and exit easily ! > > Have a look again at this pic ! > > http://members.aol.com/overunity2/images/s-top-xy.gif > > Regards, Stefan. Hi Stefan, You MUST also consider the size of the ball. Its diameter has a large effect in the function of the ramp. I believe my design has been tuned to a 12mm ball. I am not saying that ALL must use a 12mm ball, but be aware that ball size does effect opeartion. There is a real tie-in of the ball's diameter and the field coutours (the rate and distance over which the mag field changes). Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 15:58:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA06402; Mon, 26 May 1997 15:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:44:49 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970526184307_2086795648@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Don't call it a toy! Resent-Message-ID: <"_MUIx.0.wZ1.U9XYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3321 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, Calling this device a toy is like calling a volcano a lava lamp! If this turns out to be want has been claimed, (ou), then children (and adults) will be playing with the energy that makes the universe "tick". Please don't demean the discovery by calling it a toy! Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 16:07:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA07029; Mon, 26 May 1997 15:51:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:51:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338A1339.2C2B@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:18:25 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT QField Sims References: <3388D7A2.124C@microtronics.com.au> <3389F693.7811@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P5w6I.0.Zj1.PFXYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3322 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ronald de Mol wrote: > > Could you make another 4 of them ? > Like the 'Looking into the exit, linked ramp below', but then with a > dropping ball, in four steps valling from the top exit to the bottem > next ramp ? OK, will send in the next few hours. > And for the BUILD phase... > I have earlyer already 2 models made, one with round alnico-5 magnets > and one with 50x19x5 magnets (Both a succes for a SINGLE model). > The problem is that I really need the 13x10x5 magnets and I can't find > them anywhere yet. > Here comes my problem: In ALL the models I have made and seen, the > exit point is just before the start of the last magnet. 13-15mm in from the end. > (could more people confirm that ?, or am i wrong.) > if the lenght of one magnet is 50mm (as in my earlyer model) Then there > is a approx 60mm 'behind' the drop point area and that is NOT good for > linking ramps toghetter I think. > > And as second reason I want to duplicate the project as good as possible. > > Tomorrow I gonna call all the magnet supplyers I can find, in the hope > that there is at least ONE that sells the 13x10x5 magnets ! > (or verry similair ones.) > If so I buy 1000 of them if not to $$$. > > Thanks in advance. > Ronald. Hi Ronald, The exit point is not related to the size of the magnets used. It varies with magnet strength and top spacing but it is around 13-15mm down from the top end of the magnets. When smaller magnets are joined together (tightly), they function as a solid magnet. While the joins will cause some small field variations, it is really very small if they are tightly packed together. The steel bar along the back REALLY helps to even out the field. Its one of the secrets. Don't make it too thin, you may saturate it. I believe 3mm is a min thickness to get good mag field distribution in the ramp. Look at the ramp sims and see how the bar funnels flux back and forth to even things out. Its works like magic. Will the wonders of soft ferromagnetic material ever stop? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 16:17:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA09115; Mon, 26 May 1997 16:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338A15F2.7A7B@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:30:02 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT Magnets References: <3389521F.1502@microtronics.com.au> <33899A63.3BF3@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"c1gzg1.0.HE2.eQXYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3325 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave DeLeo wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > Here is the info on my magnet supplier : > > > > Company : > > > > JayCar Electronics, > > PO Box 185, > > Concord NSW, 2137, > > Australia > > > > Phone 61 2 2743 6144 > > Fax 61 2 2743 2066 > > > > They accept : BankCard, Visa, MasterCard, American Express. > > > > Product description : > > > > TH1876, > > Frij Magnets-13x9x4mm, > > Pk100, > > $4.95 (Aust including 20% sales Tax) > > > > Think they will ship to the US? > > Dave DeLeo Hi Dave, Yes. Minus 20% sales tax. Min order $50 Aust. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 16:19:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA00419; Mon, 26 May 1997 16:18:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:18:43 -0700 Message-ID: <338A19F1.3449@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:47:05 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT References: <338A18F3.2B08@gorge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3GU1F.0.S6.IfXYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3326 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Miller wrote: > > Greg: > > I have looked at the Qfield sims. Thanks, again. > > Suggestions: > > 1. Consider the iron band on the outside of each magnet > assembly. If you were to extend that band, around the > EXIT END of each individual magnet assembly, AND extend > it 1/2 inch (12.5 mm) BACK along the inside of the magnet > assembly, would it not diminish the B field at the exit end? > Wouldn't this help the ball to exit? Tried that some time ago. Really boosts the field in the ramp (joining the steel backing plates). Running the steel bar inside the magnet arrays would kill the field there and move the magnet bounce back wall further down the ramp. Any reduction in mag field strength along the ramp will cause the ball to be repelled back down the ramp. Its the same force that drives the ball up the ramp. The trick is to get a soft exit field (the field goes away slowly) and control the field contours below the magnet arrays as the ball exits. > 2. Less likely, but possible: How about an iron band > connecting the two ENTRANCE ends, (side to side, not exit > to entrance) but far enough away to have negligible effect > on the iron ball? Say, under the balsa wood. That will help, but really complicate being able to adjust the magnet array positions. The design as presented is the result of many hours of development work. It works and is simple to build. While I don't want to stop experimentation, PLEASE build the device first, SEE it working and then EXPERIMENT to your hearts content. > 3. Could these keepers allow the magnet assemblies to > be placed more parallel, and just maybe, render unnecessary > the use of gravity to break the ball free from the exit end? No. Its not gravity but the difference in the field contours that I believe makes the ramp work. Seems we are stuck with gravity to assist the change in the mag field's contours under the ramps for a while. > Tom Miller Hi Tom, I was keeping the linking of the steel backing plates at the end under my hat for awhile. Nothing like thinking, other than BUILDING. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 16:41:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA12638; Mon, 26 May 1997 16:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338A1B59.2182@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:53:05 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: This SMOT thing works!! References: <199705262219.SAA07418@ns.bluegrass.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nv0nF1.0.G53.ylXYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3327 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sam Gordon wrote: > > Hello Greg and all, > > First thanks for the posted info. I made a ramp somewhat like the one > in your diagram. (do in part that most stores are closed today) I ended up > glueing a piece of aluminum u channel on an old cd case then glueing a cd > case on each side of the channel. I couldn't find any small refrig magnets > so I used 16 round 11mm x 4mm > ceramic mags i had here, That I glued on a piece of hacksaw blade which is > 10mm wide x 1.5 or 2mm thick I managed to get the steel ball to roll up the > ramp 8 mm higher > than the starting elev. As soon as work and time permit I shall build one > exactly as you have shown. I found the bearings at Napa auto parts the guys > there save them for > sling shot ammo. Looking forward to future posts. > Hi Sam, Glad to welcome you to the SMOT club. Yes it does work. But the really big CHARGE is when we go to Phase 2 and get 4 linked ramps working. Seeing the ball travel through 4 linked ramps and NOT slow down is mind blowing. Things really get exciting then. The ball bearings for sling shot ammo is a good idea. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 16:40:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA04025; Mon, 26 May 1997 16:39:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:39:46 -0700 Message-Id: <9705262340.AA30344@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: computer problems Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:39:45 -0700 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2CItr.0.k-.1zXYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3328 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks, Well, I guess I spoke too soon. Freezeup started again when I tried to load scanner software. I think it must be a Win software problem because ScanDisk freezes up at the same point every time-- would think if it was hardware it wouldn't happen at the same place. Scandisk come on every time i run windows, and I have to shut it off to run programs. Obviously at any moment the horror will strike again :-() Whatever it is, it's over my head. I appreciate everyone's help but I'm not going to try to fix it, I'm going to take it back...maybe I can get them to give me an even fancier computer that I understand even less... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 17:03:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA06845; Mon, 26 May 1997 17:02:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:02:41 -0700 Message-ID: <338A2485.507B@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 02:02:13 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: computer problems References: <9705262340.AA30344@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LzBUc1.0.sg1.WIYYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3330 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred Epps wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > Well, I guess I spoke too soon. Freezeup started again when I tried to > load scanner software. I think it must be a Win software problem because > ScanDisk freezes up at the same point every time-- would think if it was > hardware it wouldn't happen at the same place. > Scandisk come on every time i run windows, and I have to shut it off to > run programs. > Obviously at any moment the horror will strike again :-() > Whatever it is, it's over my head. I appreciate everyone's help but I'm > not going to try to fix it, I'm going to take it back...maybe I can get > them to give me an even fancier computer that I understand even less... > Fred This is almost 100 % an EMS fault , Check if mem above F000 is used. if so turn it of. :+) Refards, Ronald. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 17:15:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA16524; Mon, 26 May 1997 17:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338A2366.7B05@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:27:26 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Other's inspected the closed loop? References: <199705261711.NAA28728@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> <338A0D4F.402C@microtronics.com.au> <338A1E30.490D@sn.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"skOEW.0.024.IGYYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3329 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frank Roed wrote: > > Hello Greg > > Are there other's who has inspected your closed loop > version of the SMOT? Some local's that could confirm the device > as working....Just a little sceptic you now.... No, not yet. But soon you can! > > Well it probably work's, since you sound very honest. > > I'am building one too, and got some questions. > > 1. Whith 12mm ball, what is your inner width of the aluminium track? 9mm. > 2. How important is the "steel bar" back the magnets? Very. Helps to even out the field. > 3. My magnets are 20mm x 10mm x 5mm , so my magnet ramp makes 100mm, > what length do you recommend on the aluminium track? 85mm. (Ramp should be about 13-15mm less than the length of the magnet arrays. > 4. And with my magnets, 5mm depth instead of your 4mm, your > recommendation on number of magnet layers? > (Or should i get exact your magnet spec.?) 3 should work ok. Its the overall width of the array thats important. With my ceramics, I found that 16mm worked well, so 15mm (3x5mm) should be ok. > Well, enough questions for now. > > Thank's for your interest in helping us, and for shareing your work!!! > > Best regards > Frank Hi Frank, Don't forget to tell us when you get it working. Can you send pictures? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 17:22:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA17458; Mon, 26 May 1997 17:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338A253D.2B85@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:35:17 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Don't call it a toy! References: <970526184307_2086795648@emout20.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RFSIF2.0.hG4.VNYYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3331 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Greg, > Calling this device a toy is like calling a volcano a lava lamp! If this > turns out to be want has been claimed, (ou), then children (and adults) will > be playing with the energy that makes the universe "tick". Please don't > demean the discovery by calling it a toy! > Butch LaFonte Hi Butch, I call it a Toy for several reasons : 1) The output is flea power. 2) The construction methods are very simple (KISS). 3) My critics will dismiss it as a Toy until it is too late. 4) The only difference between men and boys is the size of their Toys! 5) More people will build it if I call it a Toy. 6) The world should be a fun place, we need more Toys. 7) I plan to sell a version of the RMOD as a Toy. 8) Probably some more reasons I haven't realized yet. Lighten up Butch, build a SMOT ramp and PLAY with it. It wouldn't bite. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 20:35:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA21437; Mon, 26 May 1997 20:34:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:34:15 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: ben@clubelite.com (Ben Tammetta) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 00:29:58 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: 1 ramp works, 2 don't Reply-to: tammetta@mindspring.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199705262206.AAA15417@centaure.worldnet.net> References: <3.0.32.19970526114441.00ae6bec@mail.localaccess.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Message-ID: <19970527034016317.AAA48@jumanji> Resent-Message-ID: <"3gOXV2.0.oE5.sObYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3332 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, from Atlanta GA, I got all my parts today and spent a lot of time building and playing with my SMOT. My parts match Gregs pretty closely. 12mm ball, 12mm aluminum channel magnets: ~4x19x25mm ( Radio Shack) arranged 5 long and 4 wide for each rail. with a 1/8x1" (almost 4x24mm) wide steel backing. And thin plywood and cardboard for the base. I made 2 working SMOTS. Both work independently of each other. 1 independent SMOT is easy to get to work if you are not concerned with the hight you wish to achieve with the ramp. The higher you raise the ramp the harder it gets to tune. The higest I could get the 12mm Steel ball to climb was 12mm. It would climb to the top drop off and roll away...... (as long as there was not another track there)! When I put another piece of the track, where the ball drops off, to see if it would escape the magnetic field... it would most often just stop right there. The top of the seconrd track just fit under the bottom of the first track. The farthest the ball would get on the second track was just 5mm and then bounce right back. And that much was very hard to achieve. I spent many frustrating hours trying to get the 2 ramps to work but with no success. Unless Greg left out somemore details about connecting ramps. I can't figure out how to get 2 to work as is. Greg, What am I missing? :) If anyone is interested ... I can put up pictures and AVIs on my website within a day or so. If anyone wants to chat.... I'm online 40% of the day so you can WinTalk (Talk me) at ben@jumanji.clubelite.com OR ICQ me at 1326072 Thanks, Ben ###################### # Ben Tammetta # # ben@clubelite.com # ###################### From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 20:41:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA13869; Mon, 26 May 1997 20:41:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:41:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Tixif@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 23:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970526233933_-1531753109@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Fwd: Re : ICQList Resent-Message-ID: <"ob5Kd.0.bO3.BVbYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3333 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 97-05-26 12:59:21 EDT, JNaudin509 writes: << To develop the list, select only the address list and then reply and add yours. To use it in WIN95, just right click by the icon by the clock to "Open IQC" Shawn Stroud #1332533 (EMail=Tixif@aol.com) Jean-Louis Naudin #747846 (Email=JNaudin509@aol.com) >> --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re : ICQList Date: 97-05-26 12:59:21 EDT From: JNaudin509 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: Tixif << I'm on the ICQ List. To develop the list, select only the address list and then reply and add yours. Shawn Stroud #1332533 (EMail=Tixif@aol.com) Jean-Louis Naudin #747846 (Email=JNaudin509@aol.com) >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 20:43:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA22933; Mon, 26 May 1997 20:42:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:42:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:48:23 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: regarding over unity ramp In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970524133621.3eafceaa@pop.mymail.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"f5OXK1.0.Ac5.YWbYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3334 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 24 May 1997, Michael C Slivinski wrote: > Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 13:39:23 -0500 (CDT) > From: Michael C Slivinski > Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: regarding over unity ramp > Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 11:36:51 -0700 > Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Hello all, > wouldn't the OU ramp that has been demonstrated qualify for the prize monies > offered by groups offering a demo of it. also I beleive even the Sceptics > group, (not sure of the name) is offering a nice purse. Once demonstrated > and monies claimed, of course could fund further research. > just thoughts > Mike Slivinski sunbrite@mymail.net > http://www.myhomepage.net/~sunbrite/ > > God helps those, that help themselves... > so they may help others! MCS > I just hope WE all remember that Greg's release of this was that we only remember HIS name, and that we can take it the 'Thousands' of different ways that we will, as long as we remember "who & WHEN" we got it from. ----if any monie$ are to be made, they should 'formost' go to him! maybe he can catch-up with Bill Gates.. :) ---- if everyone takes-off (Great!).. i think I could handle selling little $15.00 boxes to school kids (my grandkids would like it), and everyone should be happy.... but, Foremost(!) is his request above! =My hat too, is off to the SMOT!= ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 20:51:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA24521; Mon, 26 May 1997 20:50:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:50:12 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:56:16 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Watson/Teamwork In-Reply-To: <970524184032_-995459600@emout08.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"DpeY91.0.2_5.pdbYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3335 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 24 May 1997 JWGSA@aol.com wrote: > Shawn, > I am in San Antonio and pass through Austin now and them. > Jack > > Heck, Im a bit up the hill in (mile-high) Denver, if you ramp it up here, I'll 'send' it back or we can keep building "Higher" you are close enough... i think this will 'ignite' though to being "world wide" -hats off to SMOT!- ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 21:48:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA20303; Mon, 26 May 1997 21:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <9705270446.AA29550@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: a NEW new computer Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:45:58 -0700 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6z9Pt.0.8z4.VScYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3336 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks, Thanks again for your help in fixing my computer. I tried some of the things you suggested, the ones I understood :-) but to no avail. I have taken the easy way out and returned the computer, now I'm on my NEW new computer. This one works fine, as of 30 mins after ignition. Sorry to bore everyone with my travails. I hope to have something more interesting to talk about soon. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 21:51:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA02445; Mon, 26 May 1997 21:50:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:50:58 -0700 Message-Id: <338AE69D.4BAF@ens.ascom.ch> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 06:50:21 -0700 From: Christian Korfmacher Reply-To: korfmach@ens.ascom.ch Organization: Ascom Business Systems AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ICQ/ramp power! References: <3.0.32.19970526114441.00ae6bec@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"U9asx1.0.6c.nWcYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3337 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Can someone shed some light on the total "energy content" of permanet magnets? You do work by lifting mass against gravity, dropping it at the end of the ramp does not bring the energy back into the magnet!? We can calculate the total amount of energy for 1 lift over a ramp as W-lift = m*g*h and accceleration work W-a = m/2 * v*v with v = speed at the end and rotational energy as W-r = J/2 * w*w with J = 2/5 * m * r*r If the total amount of the energy in the ball for a reasonable number of ramp runs is anywhere near the total energy content of the magnet, then we should be able to prove the demagnetization of the magnet by doing work. If someone has more insight in the physics of magnets, please let us know. I dont see why lifting a mass with a magnet should not degrade the magnet. Where else should the energy come from? And for Greg, I'm fascinated with your ramp and I'm going to build one soon. But I want to get more knowledge about permanet magnets so I can understand what's happening there! Epitaxy wrote: > > According to conventional theory, the demagnetization of the magnets can -------------------- is it true or just theory??? > only happen if the magnets are subjected to an opposing (read: Repelling) > magnetic field above the intrinsic demagnetization threshold. (That is > aside from mechanical shock and Curie temperature.) > > In SMOT the magnet arrays are in the attracting mode and the eddy currents > in the ball do not exceed the demagnetization threshold. The eddies are > easily suppressed by using a glass ball filled with iron powder. In any > case the magnetic field created by the eddy currents will not have greater > intensity than the field of permanent magnets that are inducing the eddies > in the ball with their magnetic field. > > If anything the presence of the ball between the two attracting magnetic > arrays only helps to maintain the magnet's magnetization, because the ball > form a high permeability path for the magnetic flux IN THE SAME DIRECTION > as the polarization of the magnet's domains ! > > Look at the demagnetization values for various magnetic alloys. > > Material Grade Demagnet Curie BH-Strength > > NdFeB g39 - 21,300 150 40 > SmCo g26 - 10,000 300 26 > AlNiCo g05 - 640 540 5.5 > Ceramic g08 - 3,200 300 3.5 (BaFe2O3 or SrFe2O3 ceramic > alloys) > Flexible g01 - 1,300 100 0.6 > > Grade = Material quality grade (alloy type ie. ALNICO 5) > Demagnet = Minimum Demagnetizing force in Oersteds > Curie = Curie Temperature in Degrees Celsius > BH-Strength = Maximum Energy Product in Mega Gauss Oersteds (MGO) > > The above clearly shows that AlNiCo is THE EASIEST to demagnetize. However > AlNiCo has the highest Curie temperature of them all - 540degC. The > Neodymium (NdFeB) magnets are the strongest (ie. they have the highest > energy product). Flexible magnets are the weakest. > > At 12:36 PM 5/26/97 -0500, you wrote: > > > >BTW: The demagnetizing of the magnets might be the energy source that the > device uses. -- Christian Korfmacher Ascom Business Systems Voice:+41 (0)32 6242716 Fax: +41 (0)32 6243156 mailto:hitsch@solnet.ch or mailto:korfmach@ens.ascom.ch Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are that good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats. - Howard Aiken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 22:15:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA07425; Mon, 26 May 1997 22:15:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 22:15:17 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 22:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705270515.WAA23699@iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: 1 ramp works, 2 don't Resent-Message-ID: <"1Cy1h.0.tp1.atcYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3338 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ben Tammetta wrote: >Hello, from Atlanta GA, > >I got all my parts today and spent a lot of time building and playing >with my SMOT. My parts match Gregs pretty closely. >12mm ball, 12mm aluminum channel >magnets: ~4x19x25mm ( Radio Shack) Here is where the problem most likely is occurring that I have experienced also. The width (19mm) of the magnets are too wide for the 12mm ball. Try a 0.625" (16mm) ball. This worked for me. Or use 10mm wide magnets as per Greg's design. I'm trying this out next with 0.375" magnets for the 0.5" ball. [snip] >I spent many frustrating hours trying to get the 2 ramps to work but >with no success. Unless Greg left out somemore details about >connecting ramps. I can't figure out how to get 2 to work as is. > >Greg, What am I missing? :) Also, with the 19mm magnets and a 12mm drop to the next ramp, I found that there wasn't enough clearance between the two mag. assy. Greg also mentioned a clearance between the mag assy will be needed for the Phase II connecting of ramps. >If anyone is interested ... I can put up pictures and AVIs on my >website within a day or so. > >If anyone wants to chat.... I'm online 40% of the day so you can >WinTalk (Talk me) at ben@jumanji.clubelite.com >OR > ICQ me at 1326072 > >Thanks, >Ben > > > >###################### ># Ben Tammetta # ># ben@clubelite.com # >###################### > Hi Ben, I hope the suggestions helps. I couldn't find any metric magnets locally so I'm using the equivalent English dimensioned componets. Will post my results this week. Best Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 22:32:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA09417; Mon, 26 May 1997 22:31:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 22:31:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970526223138.00abba2c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 22:31:40 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: This SMOT thing works!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0ZC_r2.0.2J2.o6dYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3339 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The hacksaw blade is made out of a very hard steel that is NOT very soft magnetically (low permeability). The hacksaw blade is not a good substitute for a strip of a real soft steel. BTW: The bearing ball is also made out of a very hard alloy and its permeability is not as high as iron or soft steel. At 06:13 PM 5/26/97 -0400, you wrote: I couldn't find any small refrig magnets >so I used 16 round 11mm x 4mm >ceramic mags i had here, That I glued on a piece of hacksaw blade which is >10mm wide x 1.5 or 2mm thick I managed to get the steel ball to roll up the >ramp 8 mm higher From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 23:54:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA14689; Mon, 26 May 1997 23:17:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 23:17:31 -0700 Message-ID: <338A7C1F.4F03@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:45:59 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: SMOT Magnets] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------434F2A8021BF" Resent-Message-ID: <"N6xrE1.0.Qb3.wndYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3341 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------434F2A8021BF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Got bounched first time --------------434F2A8021BF Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <338A7B3F.60D8@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:42:15 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT Magnets References: <3389521F.1502@microtronics.com.au> <33899A63.3BF3@ix.netcom.com> <338A15F2.7A7B@microtronics.com.au> <338A5D13.771E@math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry Merriman wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > > > > Here is the info on my magnet supplier : > > > > > > > > Product description : > > > > > > > > TH1876, > > > > Frij Magnets-13x9x4mm, > > > > Pk100, > > > > $4.95 (Aust including 20% sales Tax) > > Do you happen to know what these magnets are actually > made of? I would imagine a wide variety of materials > are possible, and it would be nice to nail it down for > the sake of science. Perhaps you could call them and ask them > for the specs on their magnets, or ask them who their > supplier is... > > -- > Barry Merriman Hi Barry, OK, I will try to find out all the specs. Jean-Louis has linked with much larger magnets and Epitaxy has linked with Neos and his glass/ferrite ball. Others have linked as well. I don't believe the magnet material is critical. Size, Yes. Have you started to build a SMOT ramp yet. Its really very simple to build and lots of really good fun. Best Regards, Greg --------------434F2A8021BF-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon May 26 23:58:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA22168; Mon, 26 May 1997 23:57:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 23:57:38 -0700 Message-ID: <338A7D87.7DDE@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:51:59 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Smot Magnet sizes Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------619E3C6A24B0" Resent-Message-ID: <"2FpAb2.0.6Q5.WNeYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3342 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------619E3C6A24B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI All, Here is the modified drawing showing my magnet height is critical to ease of linking. Best Regargs, Greg --------------619E3C6A24B0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="smot-phase-1b.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="smot-phase-1b.gif" R0lGODlh9AH6APcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPz8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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<338A79C9.642@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:36:01 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 1 ramp works, 2 don't References: <3.0.32.19970526114441.00ae6bec@mail.localaccess.com> <19970527034016317.AAA48@jumanji> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kx7ll3.0.1P3.eedYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3340 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ben Tammetta wrote: > > Hello, from Atlanta GA, > > I got all my parts today and spent a lot of time building and playing > with my SMOT. My parts match Gregs pretty closely. > 12mm ball, 12mm aluminum channel > magnets: ~4x19x25mm ( Radio Shack) > arranged 5 long and 4 wide for each rail. with a 1/8x1" (almost > 4x24mm) wide steel backing. And thin plywood and cardboard for the > base. The Magnet arrays are too long for the ramp. The magnets arrays should be 13-15mm longer than the ramp. The height of the magnet arrays (including the steel backing strip) MUST be less than 75% (a guess) of the height of the lift. My magnets are 9mm high for a 12mm lift. The steel backing strip MUST be approx the same height as the magnet arrays or the mag field contours will not be correct. Mine is 10mm. > I made 2 working SMOTS. Both work independently of each other. > 1 independent SMOT is easy to get to work if you are not concerned > with the hight you wish to achieve with the ramp. The higher you > raise the ramp the harder it gets to tune. This is correct. > The higest I could get the 12mm Steel ball to climb was 12mm. It > would climb to the top drop off and roll away...... (as long as there > was not another track there)! > > When I put another piece of the track, where the ball drops off, > to see if it would escape the magnetic field... it > would most often just stop right there. The top of the seconrd track > just fit under the bottom of the first track. The farthest the ball > would get on the second track was just 5mm and then bounce right > back. And that much was very hard to achieve. Your exit fields are not correct. Suspect your magnet array overhang is too long. I have found that the ramp mush be 13-15mm less than the length of the magnet arrays. There is a critical point of exit where the magnet wall at the end will just gently push the ball back onto the exit rails, yet allow the ball to settle on the front porch of the next ramp. The length of the front proch is also adjustable by sliding the initial flat frpnt porch under the exit of the proceeding ramp. Also critical is the position of the lower edges of the magnet arrays. Too far away and the ball will not be sucked into the entry field. In my units, I find that the arrays of the second ramp are just slightly under the higher ends of the first arrays. Anyway, you are going too fast. Build as the spec, I promise the ramps will link. Many others have been able to get this working. > I spent many frustrating hours trying to get the 2 ramps to work but > with no success. Unless Greg left out somemore details about > connecting ramps. I can't figure out how to get 2 to work as is. I have spent many 100's of hours to get you to here. Don't give up too easily. Check Jean-Louis's web page again. Look at the modified drawing of the ramps linking and you will SEE why the specs are as they are. It does work!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Greg, What am I missing? :) > > If anyone is interested ... I can put up pictures and AVIs on my > website within a day or so. > > If anyone wants to chat.... I'm online 40% of the day so you can > WinTalk (Talk me) at ben@jumanji.clubelite.com > OR > ICQ me at 1326072 > > Thanks, > Ben Hi Ben, Hope the above helps. Look at the modified 4th drawing on the web site. You may need to hit reload as the old image may be in your cache. Best of luck, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 01:58:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA31995; Tue, 27 May 1997 01:58:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 01:58:00 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:17:29 +0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: otecnor@emirates.net.ae (otecnor) Subject: Greg's idea(s) Resent-Message-ID: <"sbjFp1.0.qp7.N8gYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3343 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I built a crude version of the ramp (15 mns work...),I used what could "fall" to my hands: bearing ball dia 7.2 mm, two times 4 Alnico magnets dia 10 mm x lgth 10 mm tight together with tape + transformer Fe plate sticked behind each set and a V folded piece of plastic cardboard (instead of a U chanel) I fitted with tape the V chanel on to an (empty) visiting card plastic boxe and gave it an angle > to the dia of the ball (exit higher than entry by1.2 to 1.5 dia of the ball), usable track length approx 37 mm, I found out that by keeping the magnets axis above the V ramp near the entry point but slightly below near the exit point insured better ball exit.(I'have not yet fitted the 2 set of magnets and just played with the thing holding one set of mag in each hand...) I am pretty convinced that the loop can be closed,and this I will at least try in the coming days with more seriously built ramps... I read quite a lot on this list about "where is the energy coming from?"... frankly speaking,for the layman that I am and will remain,I do not see any mystery in That, Greg has just found a way of "stealing" a bit of the ball's Inertia by ingeniously using earth gravitation,There is to me and as Jean-Louis wrote few hours ago a similarity of procedure with T.Bearden concepts of getting "free" Energy from alternatively closing/opening a gate. I am thinking of building a rotary device using that process, only and as it is not really practicable to have a rotor longitudinaly (shaft axis wise) going up and down, as well as a motor that could only work in a certain positions relative to the earth field, it would require to shield the field(s) incoming from the magnets at the places they are closer to the rotor piece thus allowing the rotor piece(s) travelling in the "ramps" fields to keep enough energy/Inertia to enter the next ramp... It may/Will require magnets of different sizes on the inner set of ramps,smaller'ones (closer to shaft axis) and larger' ones on the outside (farther from the shaft) The rotor piece would travel between the inner and outer set of magnets,shield would be placed/spaced at "critical" points where inner and outer "races of magnets" would come the closest... I do not know if my description of the device is clear enough,pure fantaisy nor if it could help, but I had it in Brain for the last hours and had to spell it out. Best Wishes to All FRANCK ROUSSEL http://www.infoemirates.com/otecnor otecnor@emirates.net.ae Tel: -- 971 4 341 335 Fax: -- 971 4 341 271 Po box 4613 Dubai United Arab Emirates Time: GMT + 4 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 06:24:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA29111; Tue, 27 May 1997 06:24:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 06:24:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338ADDB6.1A0B@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:12:22 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Hompage update Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ltzSf1.0.l67.j1kYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3344 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All. Have just updated my home page. Changed: Where to find the magnets... Add : 8 Quickfield sims. (ball falling from top ramp) (maybe you must use the 'reload key' if you see nothing differend.) See it at HTTP:\\www.worldonline.nl\~catware Thank you Greg for the sims! Also i have finaly found a company here that has the right magnets. (13x10x4.9mm). Pitty that it takes 7-10 day for delivery. I have ordered a whole bunch of them. -- Ronald. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 07:09:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA04499; Tue, 27 May 1997 07:09:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 07:09:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338AEA60.7DD0@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:06:25 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hompage update References: <338ADDB6.1A0B@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e2-Qd.0.261.vhkYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3345 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ronald de Mol wrote: > > Hi All. > > Have just updated my home page. > > > See it at HTTP:\\www.worldonline.nl\~catware > err... :-X See it at HTTP://www.worldonline.nl/~catware -- Ronald. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 07:19:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA29007; Tue, 27 May 1997 07:17:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 07:17:11 -0700 Message-ID: <338AEC81.2B3@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:45:29 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT query References: <970527103115_100433.1541_BHG50-1@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zrC3K.0.157.cpkYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3346 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > One thing I'm not quite clear on. I had the impression from earlier > comments that the SMOT (in its completed, 4-ramp form) is intended to > keep on running, with the ball continually cycling around the ramps and > through its starting point. The 4 ramp version (Phase 2) is not a closed loop system. It is, like Phase 1, a teaching system designed to build a piece at a time to a closed loop system. We must go through Phase 2 to 4. > Is that the idea, is that the claim? Phase 1 is a simple ramp. Nothing more. But very interesting still, NO? Phase 2 is 4 linked Phase 1 ramps, showing no slowing of the ball as it travels through the linked ramps. That in itself should cause a deal of interest, and discontent! > Since people seem to be having considerable success with replicating the > basic single-ramp system, then I'm getting more interested. As you should. I don't claim anything I can't duplicate. Rev up the brain cells! This is real! > As far as I > can see, if the ball starts from rest, finishes up at its starting > height, and yet rolls clear of the magnets, then there is a real puzzle > here to be solved - even before the multi-ramp system is revealed. The ball will not roll clear in this configuration. It is NOT designed to do so as this is s class 2 ramp (reference my previous corros). It is designed to link. That is the key to the next phase (Phase 2). > Is that not correct? Not quite. Linking is the key, not rolling clear! Think about the physics of the second and third linked ramp and what it means for the ball to travel through those ramps and NOT slow down! > Chris Hi Chris, Its starting to get interesting, Yes? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 07:21:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA29426; Tue, 27 May 1997 07:19:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 07:19:18 -0700 From: Tixif@aol.com Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 10:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970527101837_-1229950643@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hompage update Resent-Message-ID: <"XsdqM.0.dB7.arkYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3347 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 97-05-27 09:28:15 EDT, you write: << Also i have finaly found a company here that has the right magnets. (13x10x4.9mm). Pitty that it takes 7-10 day for delivery. I have ordered a whole bunch of them. >> Ron Can you tell us the name and contact for the company you located. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 07:44:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA09387; Tue, 27 May 1997 07:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 07:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338AF1DB.78D1@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 00:08:19 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT query References: <199705271313.IAA06437@natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RBmB-.0.NI2.y9lYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3348 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > At 06:31 AM 5/27/97 EDT, Chris wrote: > > >As far as I > >can see, if the ball starts from rest, finishes up at its starting > >height, and yet rolls clear of the magnets, then there is a real puzzle > >here to be solved The SMOT ramp is a class 2 ramp (drops to entry level but doesn't roll clear) > Unless, as was the case with the TOMI device, you have to do work on the > ball to place it in the starting position. No Way, You have to restrain it from moving into the ramp. > This whole thing HAS gotten interesting. A good while ago I led a campaign > to cease discussion of the theory of o-u magnetic devices on Vortex. In > essence, I told Greg to go away and come back when he had constructed a > device that appeared to be o-u. He claims to have done so...by closing the > loop!!! Now I am eager to check him out. We, too, are constructing a SMOT > ramp. Good on you! > Scott Little Hi Scott, Its NOT like Tomi, its really real. Really glad to have you on board. Ask away, any questions, I really want this to be proved outside my house. But you have to BUILD the devices. Thats really important. Maybe ACC will write 4001, or a mod of 2001 based on SMOT and SHARP energy systems. This is the best news I have had since I closed the loop the first time and dropped my patent attorney jaw to the floor. SMOT is a Toy, but as others have stated, it is real and will change the world IF WE REALLY WANT IT TO DO SO! Thats what I, and all the rest of you really want. Yes? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 08:11:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA14708; Tue, 27 May 1997 08:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338B22ED.1A56@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:07:41 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: computer problems References: <9705262340.AA30344@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aFbUD.0.ib3.FblYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3349 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred Epps wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > Well, I guess I spoke too soon. Freezeup started again when I tried to > load scanner software. I think it must be a Win software problem because > ScanDisk freezes up at the same point every time-- would think if it was > hardware it wouldn't happen at the same place. > Scandisk come on every time i run windows, and I have to shut it off to > run programs. > Obviously at any moment the horror will strike again :-() > Whatever it is, it's over my head. I appreciate everyone's help but I'm > not going to try to fix it, I'm going to take it back...maybe I can get > them to give me an even fancier computer that I understand even less... > Fred Fred, I'm very sorry to hear that your machine is causing problems. Did I read that it's a NEC computer? I am a principle engineer for NEC Computer Systems Division, however I work in the portable products section. I do know most of the desktop people however. Can I be of any assistance with your problems? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 08:42:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA19588; Tue, 27 May 1997 08:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338AF692.5A58@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 00:28:26 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT query References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dboNq2.0.Jn4.B2mYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3351 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Logajan wrote: > > Chris Tinsley wrote: > > As far as I > > can see, if the ball starts from rest, finishes up at its starting > > height, and yet rolls clear of the magnets, then there is a real puzzle > > here to be solved - even before the multi-ramp system is revealed. > > Is that not correct? > > I believe so. I think the alleged miracle occurs at the exit, so the > use of multiple ramps is just to get the thing in a circle. I figure > that if you could avoid the rolling resistance, you could get the thing > to work in a single ramp. Have the ball exit, drop down a J shaped > channel that returns it back to the starting point. > > -- > - John Logajan -- jlogajan@skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - Hi John, Long ramps are a bitch. To obtain the necessary mag differential across the ball on a long ramp and get release is not EASY. Been there, done that. Stay with the program, then go off at a tangent. Have you got your single SMOT ramp working yet? If not why not? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 08:42:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA19561; Tue, 27 May 1997 08:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338AF9B3.34F5@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 00:41:47 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT query References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lAJZa2.0.Hn4.B2mYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3350 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Logajan wrote: > > Scott Little wrote: > > Unless, as was the case with the TOMI device, you have to do work on the > > ball to place it in the starting position. > > Actually, I believe the starting point is already within the magnetic > field (down the magnetic "hill") so you haven't added energy to the > system by placing the ball on the starting point. Given a flat plane > leading to the starting point, a ball should be pulled into that > position from some distance around. Which means that the magnets > could actually do work on the ball. At the entrance end, the analysis > is essentially no different than any ferrous object moving closer > to the poles of a magnet. All the magic allegedly happens when the > ball escapes at the exit. > > > We, too, are constructing a SMOT ramp. > > Since Greg's claims are unlikely to be measurement error (either it > loops the track or it doesn't) remember that in addition to: > > 1.) Greg being right > 2.) He could be hoaxing us > 3.) Or he could be delusional > > Though it doesn't look like it'll take too long to figure out > which of the three is the case. > > -- > - John Logajan -- jlogajan@skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - Hi John, Why wonden which of the three is true? BUILD a ramp! Then link then in Phase 2. Find out yourself. Its really simple and cheap! Do it. NOW! Stop talking, BUILD a ramp. Watch it work. Pour water on brain to stop meltdown, then think outside the square! But don't ever think of being a critic without BUILDING a SMOT ramp. That's not giving me or you a fair go! Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 09:01:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA16379; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:00:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:00:03 -0700 Message-ID: <338B048F.3F30@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 01:28:07 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Don't call it a toy! References: <970527114832_843363601@emout07.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l32XW3.0.c_3.0KmYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3352 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Greg, > What about the material I mentioned? It is used by Mr. Muller on his > device. Are you familiar with the material? > Butch Hi Butch, No I am not using his ferrite material. To me the only NEW element of his material is the ability of it to be moulded. ALL the rest is OLD hat, nothing new despite the web site claims. But I don't think many injection moulders would want such an abrassive material injected through their system. Soft plastic beads cause enough problems. By the way, my balls are made of chrome plated steel. Well the ones I run on the tracks anyway! Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 09:11:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA20062; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:10:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:10:54 -0700 Message-ID: <338B0722.3836@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 01:39:06 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT query References: <199705271539.IAA21413@sweden.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5mNAM1.0.Fv4.DUmYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3353 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > Hi Scott, > > Glad to hear your building a SMOT unit. It works and is simple to build by > following Greg's design. > > The metric size magnets will be have to be special ordered overseas. I'm > trying locally available english size magnets (0.375"w x 0.25"t x 0.75"l) > with 0.5" steel ball and all other components in english dimensions. It > should work just as well. > > Best Regards, > Michael Hi Michael, Should be close enough. Just remember, the ramp should be 13-15mm shorter than the magnet arrays and try to stay around 100-110mm length for the arrays. Believe it or not, longer arrays are harder to adjust. Seems the flux differential for a set width of magnet is fairly constant (top to bottom), but the differential across the ball is related to is ratio to the array length and as the pull up the ramp is related to the square of the flux differential across the ball, shorter ramps work better than longer ramps. IE, less magnets result in a higher lift. Seems strange unless you remember I predicted that any OU system would work in reverse to common reasoning and logic. You might wish to publish the source and cost of the magnets you have found. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 09:16:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA22277; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:15:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:15:54 -0700 Message-ID: <338B081D.2FCE@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:13:17 -0400 From: Dave DeLeo Reply-To: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hompage update References: <970527101837_-1229950643@emout08.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sOBqp2.0.vR5.uYmYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3354 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tixif@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-05-27 09:28:15 EDT, you write: > > << Also i have finaly found a company here that has the right magnets. > (13x10x4.9mm). Pitty that it takes 7-10 day for delivery. > I have ordered a whole bunch of them. >> > > Ron > Can you tell us the name and contact for the company you located. List of magnet supplyers: Company Info: JayCar Electronics PO Box 185, Concord NSW, 2137, Australia Phone 61 2 2743 6144 Fax 61 2 2743 2066 Prod. Descr.: TH1876, Frij Magnets-13x9x4mm, Pk100, $4.95 (Aust including 20% sales tax) Cards accept: BankCard, Visa, MasterCard, American Express Company Info: Weco Magneten B.V. Industrieweg 9A 3286 BW Klaaswaal Netherland Phone 0186 573 080 Fax ??? Prod. Descr.: Ceramic anisotropic magnet, Size 13x10x4,9mm FL 340.- For 1000 pices (Incl 17.5 BTW.) Cards accept: ??? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 09:26:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA28157; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338B0A10.12AE@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 01:51:36 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT QField Sims References: <199705271539.IAA21343@sweden.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cSOhO2.0.nt6.mgmYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3355 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > The QField Sims look very interesting at Jean-Louis Naudin's web site: > > http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/smot1qfl.htm > > I found the flux density curve w/ball unusual. It looks like a locally > induced "hole" in the mag. assy. with the ball always "falling inward" into > the hole. Interesting! Any conventional theory for explaination of this? > > Best Regards, > Michael Hi Michael, I have confirmed that the Qfield sims are correct. The "Hole" is caused by the return fields of the side magnets (they "Flow" in opposite directions). The "Hole" size and mag field contours are related to magnet geometry and spacing. The SMOT design looks simple, but as time goes on, we will see that a LOT of time and energy has gone into the design. Remember than null fields are an easy exit enemy as the quick mag field contour drop off is like hitting a brick wall to the ball. The linked field xy plot shows the linked case will result in a easier exit than if the linked ramp was not present, but the up the ramp performance will suffer and the magnet spacing (top and bottom) will have to be closed up to compensate for the effect of the linked ramp. Soon, you will understand why I used balsa and straight pins to build my mag array supports and adjustment system from. Been there, done that. Best regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 09:30:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA25486; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:29:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:29:47 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC6AC3.861632E0@ppp180.enterprise.net> From: Mike Butcher To: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" Cc: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: SMOT query and Toad Essence Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:28:42 +0100 Encoding: 23 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"DnImB1.0.-D6.ulmYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3356 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Greg, Thank you for your continuing support and encouragement and although I am eager to build the ramp I am having immense difficulty on getting hold of any quantity of magnets here in the UK. I am even having problems with the 12 mil rail. The wood - no problem I don't want you to think I'm a complete failure. I have located fridge magnets but they seem to incorporate Bugs Bunny/Deputy Dog moldings and I can see myself having to explain to people how an unknown energy source is pushing the ball round the secret being the correct positioning of rows of miscellaneous fictional cartoon characters. What I am getting round to is I expect I will eventually locate the components but could you possibly give a list of materials needed to complete the whole project as I don't relish the idea of thinking that I've got it all sorted out only to find out that to close the loop I have to start searching for "Essence of Toad" or "Virgin's Toe Nail Clippings". Thanks again, Mike Butcher From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 09:33:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA26001; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:32:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:32:40 -0700 Message-ID: <338B0C18.DDC@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:30:16 -0400 From: Dave DeLeo Reply-To: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: US magnet supplier Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WMGF22.0.AM6.domYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3357 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Has anyone had any luck finding the 13x10x4 magnets in the US? I am still searching....... will let you know if I find anything.... Dave DeLeo ddeleo@ix.netcom.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 09:51:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA30267 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:51:44 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:51:44 -0700 X-Envelope-From: little@eden.com Tue May 27 09:51:39 1997 Received: from natasha.eden.com (root@natasha.eden.com [199.171.21.14]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA30195; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:51:37 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (net-2-114.austin.eden.com [206.81.246.114]) by natasha.eden.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA28558; Tue, 27 May 1997 11:51:33 -0500 (CDT) Old-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:51:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199705271651.LAA28558@natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little@mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: SMOT query Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: At 12:08 AM 5/28/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >No Way, You have to restrain it from moving into the ramp. I see that. Logajan is correct in that the "trick" will be to get the ball away from the far end of the ramp. >SMOT is a Toy, but as others have stated, it is real and will change the >world IF WE REALLY WANT IT TO DO SO! I want it to do so. Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 09:52:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA30125; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:51:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:51:12 -0700 Message-ID: <338AF76C.2E27@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:02:04 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hompage update References: <970527101837_-1229950643@emout08.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yy-wJ3.0.XM7.-3nYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3358 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tixif@aol.com wrote: > > Ron > Can you tell us the name and contact for the company you located. Yes i can :-) It is: Weco Magneten B.V. Industrieweg 9A 3286 BW Klaaswaal Netherland Phone: 0186 573 080 Fax: ??? The 13x10x4.9 goes only per 1000 pices ! ( for FL 340.- ) -- Ronald. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 09:58:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA31367; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:57:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:57:18 -0700 Message-ID: <338B1203.265A@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 02:25:31 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT query and Toad Essence References: <01BC6AC3.861632E0@ppp180.enterprise.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1x6AX2.0.tf7.i9nYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3359 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike Butcher wrote: > > Dear Greg, > > Thank you for your continuing support and encouragement and although I am > eager to build the ramp I am having immense difficulty on getting hold of > any quantity of magnets here in the UK. I am even having problems with the > 12 mil rail. The wood - no problem I don't want you to think I'm a > complete failure. > > I have located fridge magnets but they seem to incorporate Bugs > Bunny/Deputy Dog moldings and I can see myself having to explain to people > how an unknown energy source is pushing the ball round the secret being the > correct positioning of rows of miscellaneous fictional cartoon characters. > > What I am getting round to is I expect I will eventually locate the > components but could you possibly give a list of materials needed to > complete the whole project as I don't relish the idea of thinking that I've > got it all sorted out only to find out that to close the loop I have to > start searching for "Essence of Toad" or "Virgin's Toe Nail Clippings". > > Thanks again, > > Mike Butcher Hi Mike, Ok, Here it a complete list for the SMOT Phase 1 device : 1) 64 x 13x10x4mm Ceramic Magnets (fridge type), 2) 1 x 100x267x3mm Balsa Sheet, 3) 1 x 110x12x12mm Alum "U" channel, (length to be 13-15mm shorter than magnet arrays), 4) 1 x 12mm dia Steel ball bearing (chrome plated), (More to play drop the ball) 5) 2 x 3x10x104mm Steel Backing Plates, 5) 1 x Balsa Knife, 6) 1 x Hacksaw, 7) 1 x Sheet Sandpaper (Medium grit), 8) 1 x 3ml Tube Superglue, 9) 4 x Straight Pins, 10) 1 x Ruler (To mark out mag array adjustment pin holes), 11) 1 x Small Flat Metal File, That should about do it. Sorry I didn't think to do this before. (SMOT web sites, please include this table) Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 10:07:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA00904; Tue, 27 May 1997 10:06:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 10:06:53 -0700 Message-ID: <338B1447.670A@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 02:35:11 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT query References: <199705271651.LAA28558@natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"c_4qG3.0.tD.hInYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3360 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > At 12:08 AM 5/28/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: > > >No Way, You have to restrain it from moving into the ramp. > > I see that. Logajan is correct in that the "trick" will be to get the ball > away from the far end of the ramp. No Problem. Look at the multi exit sims I have posted, The entry field of the linked ramp pulls the ball down and in! Jean-Louis has a soon to be released avi of the ramp link working. > >SMOT is a Toy, but as others have stated, it is real and will change the > >world IF WE REALLY WANT IT TO DO SO! > > I want it to do so. So do I! > Scott Little Hi Scott, Then BUILD and PUBLISH. There is not a lot more to say. Good luck, ask away if you run into problems. Best Regards, Greg PS: I have a feeling we will be seeing each other soon. Another chance to talk of string, sealing wax and other things. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 10:13:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA02694; Tue, 27 May 1997 10:13:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 10:13:26 -0700 Message-ID: <338B15CE.4311@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 02:41:42 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT query and Toad Essence References: <01BC6A85.9612F270@ristra.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ja6fS1.0.sf.qOnYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3361 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan Quickert wrote: > > Greg, I think Mike was looking for a list that would cover all the way through Closing the Loop. > > Dan Hi Dan, Not so quick. One step at a time. There is much to learn first. There are no free lunches here. All will be revealed (well really most of it is out already, in bits and pieces), but first you must BUILD and learn how to adjust SMOT ramps. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 10:59:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA13427; Tue, 27 May 1997 10:57:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 10:57:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC6A8C.A161FB10@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Cc: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Subject: RE: SMOT query and Toad Essence Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 10:56:28 -0700 Encoding: 28 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"58S0s2.0.eH3.32oYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3362 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: >Dan Quickert wrote: >> >> Greg, I think Mike was looking for a list that would cover all the way through Closing the Loop. >> >> Dan > >Hi Dan, >Not so quick. One step at a time. > >There is much to learn first. > >There are no free lunches here. > >All will be revealed (well really most of it is out already, in bits and >pieces), but first you must BUILD and learn how to adjust SMOT ramps. > > >Best Regards, > Greg Hey Greg, I wasn't looking for any secrets, or even a parts list. Just pointing out that that seemed to be what Mike was asking for. BTW, you said >Not so quick. One step at a time. But I don't need to be quick. I'm always Quicker(t) than most :-). Dan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 11:14:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA14926; Tue, 27 May 1997 11:12:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:12:26 -0700 Message-Id: <338B23B0.3229@centuryinter.net> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:10:56 -0500 From: andrew Reply-To: gyro@centuryinter.net Organization: the truth is out there X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : ICQList References: <970526125850_-1398170008@emout10.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EInGB.0.7f3.9GoYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3363 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > << I'm on the ICQ List. To develop the list, select only the address list > and > then reply and add yours. Shawn Stroud #1332533 (EMail=Tixif@aol.com) Jean-Louis Naudin #747846 (Email=JNaudin509@aol.com) Andrew R. #1279987 (Email=Gyro@centuryinter.net) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 11:34:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA19866; Tue, 27 May 1997 11:31:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:31:01 -0700 Message-ID: <338B279D.1258@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:27:41 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT query and Toad Essence References: <01BC6AC3.861632E0@ppp180.enterprise.net> <338B1203.265A@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pQQZe1.0.7s4.YXoYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3364 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > Ok, Here it a complete list for the SMOT Phase 1 device : > > < table snipped > > > Sorry I didn't think to do this before. (SMOT web sites, please include > this table) > > Best Regards, > Greg Hi Greg... Table included. at HTTP://www.worldonline.nl/~catware Some minor changes made to it. -- Ronald. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 12:34:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA01636; Tue, 27 May 1997 12:30:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:30:57 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705271930.PAA24748@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: SMOT v1.0 Result & Design Notes To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:30:47 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970526112235.00ae5728@mail.localaccess.com> from "Epitaxy" at May 26, 97 11:22:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"m6aIw.0.SP.lPpYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3365 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Make a loop and it would run forever in space! For that matter, would this work? Spin a steal ball on a string with the ball going through the center of a ring magnet. The magnet will pull it, then push it. In space, this ball should speed up untill it brakes the light barrer (and distroyes the universe). Please give me input on this! -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 12:35:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA01915; Tue, 27 May 1997 12:33:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:33:42 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705271933.PAA24902@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: Don't call it a toy! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:33:24 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <970526184307_2086795648@emout20.mail.aol.com> from "HLafonte@aol.com" at May 26, 97 06:43:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"Wy0vH2.0.qT.MSpYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3367 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Where is the energy really coming from? > > Greg, > Calling this device a toy is like calling a volcano a lava lamp! If this > turns out to be want has been claimed, (ou), then children (and adults) will > be playing with the energy that makes the universe "tick". Please don't > demean the discovery by calling it a toy! > Butch LaFonte > > -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 12:39:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA00116; Tue, 27 May 1997 12:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:32:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705271931.PAA24822@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: HOW TO GO FASTER THEN LIGHT To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:31:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"2Sfhv2.0.h1.TRpYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3366 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Make a loop and it would run forever in space! For that matter, would this work? Spin a steal ball on a string with the ball going through the center of a ring magnet. The magnet will pull it, then push it. In space, this ball should speed up until it brakes the light barrer (and distroys the universe). Please give me input on this! Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 13:09:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA05319; Tue, 27 May 1997 13:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970527223339.34e75e5e@ihug.co.nz> X-Sender: ksmith@ihug.co.nz X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:45:55 -1100 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Ken Smith Subject: SMOT - rationale Resent-Message-ID: <"fl7QN2.0.yI1.EypYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3368 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have noticed a good deal of anticipation on these pages to get ahead of the game with Greg Watson's SMOT. It is not really my place to say what I am about to - but I will anyway. Greg W is too polite to say it himself. "Get off his back about phase 2 / 3 and build the phase 1 ramp first." Anyone who has built and PROPERLY played with / adjusted / understood (as far as possible) the workings of the basic ramp will have plenty to occupy themselves with whilst Greg fines off the details of phase 2 before publication. There has been a whole bunch of work put into all this and only a small portion is obvious. Indeed the simplicity of the whole thing belies its' potential. Perhaps we would be happier if it involved 100s of miles of wire and a machine shop before a device could be built - then there would be an excuse to sit on our collective puds and theorise, criticise and whinge generally. But no, not this time folks. It's in the fan for the armchair warriors. A slack handful of magnets, some soft wood, a few pins and a breadknife will do it. Oh don't forget a bit of insulation tape and some superglue or a hot glue gun. Can't find those - get off my back. Greg has carefully put together an specific set of parts and specs (drawings even - thanks to JLN) and this is right down the centerline - easy as. But nothing in my setup conforms to these specs other than principle. A little lateral thought and a dash of application goes a long way here. I have been playing with magnets for many years - and really got nowhere, except to put so many discarded magnets onto my workshop roof that the area around my house is a local magnetic anomoly. It wasn't until Greg came up with the critical insights on the nature and shape of the exit field that I made any real progress. Now I am galloping away and ideas and working activities are all around the workbench. However there is still a very long way to go. GW realises that his answer is probably only one (or two) of many. Successful exploitation of this effect will require many more insights and ideas. Where Greg is being clever / cunning even, is to force us all to understand the basics before giving us the farm keys. Oh it is frustrating, since what we all want is a slack handful of steel balls galloping around the rails driving the dog to distraction and amazing the neighbours - and we all will - eventually. But if we are all forced to play with the basics, then we should mostly understand the principles of play when the game starts in ernest. This way we will all be little parts in a much bigger and connected research group - albeit an informal one. Then with all that building and playing going on, serendipity or some lateral thinking by one or many of us will produce further ideas and insights. This way we may be able to get 100 years of development into a few. This SMOT is an important chapter in the history of science and communications, both for the novelty and potential of the device and for the use of an open and InterNet connected group doing the driving. This breakthrough - since it is surely that - is not being hidden by paranoid androids seeking a quick profit from an under / un developed idea. This is open forum - warts and all. Greg has been very open since the getgo on this. Sure he is nominally keeping his stage 2 baby under wraps pending patent approval - but who wouldn't. Anyway, from my playings and makings it is patently (sic) obvious that most, if not all, of the concepts are there for the asking in previous posts. BUT I SAY AGAIN - YOU CAN'T SOLVE THIS ONE IN AN ARMCHAIR. Thinking this little connundrum through will not cut it. There is too much here that is totally counter intuitive and you must experience and play with this 'hands on'. There I have written a gutfull and I apologise if I am out of order. All the whiners - consider yourself bollocked and all the doers should now be empowered to do - and do some more. Anything less than that and the fault lies with my mastery of the English language. Have a nice day... Ken Smith (ksmith@ihug.co.nz) http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ksmith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 13:26:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA11135; Tue, 27 May 1997 13:24:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:24:01 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:29:50 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: Greg Watson cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: There are NO stupid questions (?) In-Reply-To: <338A1339.2C2B@microtronics.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"UzF_62.0.uj2.WBqYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3369 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 27 May 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > > And for the BUILD phase... > > I have earlyer already 2 models made, one with round alnico-5 magnets > > and one with 50x19x5 magnets (Both a succes for a SINGLE model). > > The problem is that I really need the 13x10x5 magnets and I can't find > > them anywhere yet. > > Here comes my problem: In ALL the models I have made and seen, the > > exit point is just before the start of the last magnet. Hopefully there are no stupid questions, but even my wife is excited about building one of these smot1 'toys' QUESTION: are these "bar magnets" like a tootsie roll shape OR Flat and Stacked "Disk (ceramic style)" stack.. Question arises as I SEE "BarS" stack nsnsnsn but NO "North/ South" as in jnaudin pics. My wife says you mean "Flat Round" coin shaped magnets. Of course she's a Chemist(!) so what does she know. Oddly we can both make your mm x mm x mm demensions fit our agrument! :) Thanks ( one of us will take the other out to dinner :) we both win! se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 13:32:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA12073; Tue, 27 May 1997 13:30:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:30:40 -0700 Message-ID: <338B4148.4CC0@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:17:12 -0400 From: Dave DeLeo Reply-To: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT query and Toad Essence References: <01BC6AC3.861632E0@ppp180.enterprise.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"puhlX2.0.Yy2.lHqYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3370 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike Butcher wrote: > any quantity of magnets here in the UK. I am even having problems with the > 12 mil rail. The wood - no problem I don't want you to think I'm a > complete failure. For the U channel I used a piece of the frame that is used for screen windows and doors. I got a long piece probably for the vertical part of a screen door for about $2 US. Then I just cut the top part of it off with my band saw and was left with aluminum U channel. I then had to file the sharp edges down (wouldn't want to cut yourself, even in the name of science) and then polish them with a the graphite from a pencil as Greg has suggested. Hope this helps.... Dave DeLeo ddeleo@ix.netcom.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 14:05:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA16663; Tue, 27 May 1997 14:02:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:02:37 -0700 From: geoff@compcafe.co.uk (Geoff Greaves) Reply-To: geoff@compcafe.co.uk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: SMOT query and Toad Essence Date: 27 May 1997 21:08:34 GMT Message-Id: <38207486.124517541@compcafe.co.uk> Organization: via Computer Cafes FC BBS Wales, UK Resent-Message-ID: <"CTMHY2.0.F44.ilqYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3371 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike Butcher wrote: >I am having immense difficulty on getting hold of >any quantity of magnets here in the UK. I am even having problems with the >12 mil rail. Strange but true, UK magnet suppliers congregate in Swindon. Try Magnet Sales & Service Ltd on 01793 488686 L25 min order and my filing system (piles of stuff covering all non-vertical areas) means I can't find their catalogue but I'm sure they'll have the exact size. RS Components sell 12mm, (well, half-inch anyway) aluminium U section. Give me a shout if I can help with sourcing by purchasing, sharing etc; e-mail or 01597 825253 day 825448 evenings. Any more Smotters in the UK listening? I haven't found any Bugs Bunny or Deputy Dawg fridge magnets and suspect you are just trying to maintain the morale of US Smotters. Let's face it, Wallace & Grommet have got that market pretty well stitched-up at the moment. I think I have some Essence of Toad left over from a previous anti-gravity experiment, (damn thing never flew, just hopped along) but I'm afraid that Virgin's Toe Nail Clippings have joined Rocking Horse Droppings in rarity value around these parts. Cheers, geoff ---------------------------------------- >From Geoff Greaves: geoff@compcafe.co.uk ---------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 14:10:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA15292; Tue, 27 May 1997 14:08:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:08:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338B4C94.CAE@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:05:24 -0400 From: Dave DeLeo Reply-To: ddeleo@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: ICQ UIN number list References: <199705271933.PAA24902@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Lq8l32.0.fk3.ArqYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3372 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is a list of all the freenrg-l members that are currently on ICQ: (let me know if I missed anyone) Dave DeLeo 1318578 Ben Tammetta 1326072 Andrew R. 1279987 Shawn Stroud 1332533 Paula Opelc 1201957 Greg Watson 748439 Jean-Louis Naudin 747846 Robert Hawkins 639814 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 14:49:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA22061; Tue, 27 May 1997 14:48:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:48:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:43:12 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT v1.0 Result & Design Notes In-Reply-To: <199705271930.PAA24748@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"UVJGi.0.YO5.cQrYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3373 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: well, we happen to live on a component of such a system, or at least, a system that exibits many of these characteristics. the solar system. Many people who call OU devices "impossible" seem to have no problem with the fact that many planets in this marvelous system actuallyemit much more energy than they have a right to, by conventional system. I would suggest that you peruse Richard Hoagland's work on "tetrahedral geometry", as well as Carl Munck's work. They seem to give a good scientific explanation as to how Brian DePalma's ou device works. John On Tue, 27 May 1997, Science wig. sig. wrote: > > Make a loop and it would run forever in space! For that matter, would > this work? > > Spin a steal ball on a string with the ball going through the center of a > ring magnet. The magnet will pull it, then push it. In space, this ball > should speed up untill it brakes the light barrer (and distroyes the > universe). Please give me input on this! > > > > > > > -- > +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ > | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | > | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | > +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | | > | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | > | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | > | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | > | | > +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 16:00:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA03267; Tue, 27 May 1997 15:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338B67A1.6E17@sn.no> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 01:00:49 +0200 From: Frank Roed Reply-To: frroed@sn.no Organization: SN Internett X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: ICQList Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vMPHq3.0.xo.HTsYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3374 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > << I'm on the ICQ List. To develop the list, select only the address list > and > then reply and add yours. Shawn Stroud #1332533 (EMail=Tixif@aol.com) Jean-Louis Naudin #747846 (Email=JNaudin509@aol.com) Andrew R. #1279987 (Email=Gyro@centuryinter.net) Dave DeLeo #1318578 (Email=ddeleo@ix.netcom.com) Ben Tammetta #1326072 (Email=tammetta@mindspring.com) Paula Opelc #1201957 Greg Watson #748439 (Email=gwatson@microtronics.com.au) Robert Hawkins #639814 Frank Roed #1213706 (Email=frroed@sn.no) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 16:29:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA07842; Tue, 27 May 1997 16:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 02:28:13 +0300 (EET DST) From: Mika Letonsaari Reply-To: Mika Letonsaari To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT - rationale In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970527223339.34e75e5e@ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"kRjVJ3.0.Pw1.vtsYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3375 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 28 May 1997, Ken Smith wrote: > Hi All, > I have noticed a good deal of anticipation on these pages to get > ahead of the game with Greg Watson's SMOT. It is not really my place to > say what I am about to - but I will anyway. Greg W is too polite to say it > himself. > > "Get off his back about phase 2 / 3 and build the phase 1 ramp first." There is a good reason for being anxious, because a single ramp shows nothing new or extraordinary. It is a nice toy and way to learn things but nothing more. Or have I missed something? But linking ramps and making the ball climb up all the way would be against what we have learnt from schoolbooks. I mean, the magnetic field can easily increase along one ramp and thus give a lift to an iron ball. But I can't see how multiple identical linked ramps could form an increasing magnetic field. That sounds interesting and it would be nice to know how this is done. That's why I'm not personally too excited yet. But if the phase 2 comes some day... Then we will see if there is a reason for that. -------------------------------------------- Mika Letonsaari, mletonsa@cc.hut.fi, tel. (09) 468 2583 Student of Engineering Physics at Helsinki University of Technology "All science is either physics or stamp collecting." - Ernest Rutherford -------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 17:08:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA28333; Tue, 27 May 1997 17:08:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:08:00 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705280007.UAA26662@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: HOW TO GET **VERY NEER** THE SPEED OF LIGHT ( Try 2) To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:07:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"8f6n7.0.cw6.VTtYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3376 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ok, I have found the problem with my first proposal, here is a better way: The problem brought to my attention was that the magnet might pull in both directions, stoping the ball. We can get around that by useing two electromagnets aligned backwards. When the ball (two magnets) approch the ring magnet, the electromagnets are set to pull, then when it is in the center of the ring they switch to push. It will use a little power and keep getting faster and faster. This should only work in space (or, what about useing superconductors?) Please tell me what you think. Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 17:10:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA16110; Tue, 27 May 1997 17:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970527170857.00e73568@inc-g.com> X-Sender: maryc@inc-g.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:08:57 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Mary C." Subject: Re: This SMOT thing works!! In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970526223206.00ab8e3c@mail.localaccess.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"02Py82.0.ax3.5VtYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3377 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, Forgive the stupid question, but my brain is fogged from lack of sleep. I have most of the stuff collected to play with the SMOT, but what are some examples of common sources for soft-steel strips suitable to back the magnets. Mary C. At 10:32 PM 5/26/97 -0700, you wrote: > >The hacksaw blade is made out of a very hard steel that is NOT very soft >magnetically (low permeability). The hacksaw blade is not a good >substitute for a strip of a real soft steel. > >BTW: The bearing ball is also made out of a very hard alloy and its >permeability is not as high as iron or soft steel. > > >At 06:13 PM 5/26/97 -0400, you wrote: > I couldn't find any small refrig magnets >>so I used 16 round 11mm x 4mm >>ceramic mags i had here, That I glued on a piece of hacksaw blade which is >>10mm wide x 1.5 or 2mm thick I managed to get the steel ball to roll up the >>ramp 8 mm higher > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 17:40:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA04490; Tue, 27 May 1997 17:39:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:39:48 -0700 X-ROUTED: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:37:26 -0500 X-TCP-IDENTITY: Paula Message-ID: <338B7E21.3C7C@southconn.com> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:36:49 -0400 From: paula opelc Organization: sisters of silicone, inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Help Finding magnets US/Canada/Mexico References: <199705280007.UAA26662@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"od_mV1.0._51.IxtYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3378 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Have been searching for the past two days for companies the sell magnets for the "toy", at reasonable prices (not radio shack), if anyone comes across a company in any of the above three places please pass on the info....especially ones the sell in metric sizes.....thanks for the help...steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 21:22:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA08519; Tue, 27 May 1997 21:15:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:15:21 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC6AE2.BEC66F00@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: where to get steel Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:12:38 -0700 Encoding: 22 TEXT, 41 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"Dajxf1.0.052.O5xYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3379 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mary C. wrote: >Hi All, > >Forgive the stupid question, but my brain is fogged from lack of sleep. I >have most of the stuff collected to play with the SMOT, but what are some >examples of common sources for soft-steel strips suitable to back the magnets. > >Mary C. Mary, Most hardware stores around here carry a variety of steel bar and rod stock. Much of it is harder steel, some zinc plated, but it will work - that's what I'm using. Also welding shops always have a variety of metal on hand and most are quite happy to sell you a bit, and even cut it to size for you. Welding shops, of all sizes, are virtually everywhere. Dan Quickert dequickert@ucdavis.edu 916-756-0575 begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C@$`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965NL"@P!0$P-4`@!C: K 2!#+B V=P-@%4 Z"H4*A2 ^7PM&%V(,`13 ']%C!4!(MFD31`A %P"V `8 ^ M+14Q%J DP041!"!S=>\KT &@*# K,F(GLB22`,"D9VX2`',N(O\^'S6_"H<> M:PJ/'IPBYC8E32F2^1'!9'@N ?F,K8BL!)<0^40/P%K%WVP6P)] M)($M$"<$("SS]$DG M)X!U`) =D!^0(K W+8 ?H!:@9$,!),!H;_\Q,0= .9 5(#E!)&$[>P> _P&0 M`R O41' .I$\XBF#+4+/)4 KT"1P$4880!8 MP ````,`$! ``````P`1$ ````! `` =`#T``0````4```!213H@``````,`#33]-P``B$EK ` end From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 21:49:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA01233; Tue, 27 May 1997 21:47:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:47:47 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: ben@clubelite.com (Ben Tammetta) To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 12:43:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: 1 ramp works, 2 don't, IT WORKS NOW! Reply-to: tammetta@mindspring.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Message-ID: <19970528045437449.AAA344@jumanji> Resent-Message-ID: <"K2HhP1.0.8J.lZxYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3380 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, SMOT day 2 Just 2 minutes ago on my desk, I got 2 ramps linked. Thanks to a few thought provoking suggestions that were sent. The only thing I changed was the size of the ball: From about 14mm to 19mm. The EXACT hight of the magnets that make up the magnetic array. > Ben Tammetta wrote: > > > > Hello, from Atlanta GA, > > I got all my parts today and spent a lot of time building and > > playing with my SMOT. My parts match Gregs pretty closely. 12mm > > ball, 12mm aluminum channel magnets: ~4x19x25mm ( Radio Shack) > > arranged 5 long and 4 wide for each rail. with a 1/8x1" (almost > > 4x24mm) wide steel backing. And thin plywood and cardboard for > > the > > base. > The height of the magnet arrays (including the steel backing strip) > MUST be less than 75% (a guess) of the height of the lift. My > magnets are 9mm high for a 12mm lift. Thanks Greg, this was also a key. Since my magnets are about 19mm high. I set my lift to 25mm. 25*75%=18.75 Very Close. An easier way to think of it is (1.333)(height)=(lift) > The steel backing strip MUST be approx the same height as the magnet > arrays or the mag field contours will not be correct. Mine is 10mm. Mine extent about 5mm above the magnets... might work better if I used a closer match. > > The higest I could get the 12mm Steel ball to climb was 12mm. It > > would climb to the top drop off and roll away...... (as long as > > there was not another track there)! > > > > When I put another piece of the track, where the ball drops off, > > to see if it would escape the magnetic field... it would most > > often just stop right there. The top of the seconrd track just > > fit under the bottom of the first track. The farthest the ball > > would get on the second track was just 5mm and then bounce right > > back. And that much was very hard to achieve. > Build as the spec, I promise the ramps will link. Many others have > been able to get this working. Yes, Good suggestion or at least to scale Once I got the right size ball I tuned 2 ramps to the correct specs, carefully pushed them together... and within a few minutes it was working. The funny part :) When I realized I needed bigger balls :) I called all over looking for them with no luck. The answer ended up in my hand :) Inside the mouse I was using :) I took out the tracking ball, scalped it with a razor blade and picked it apart, polished the rubber bits off with a brown paper bag... and wala. 19mm shinny steel ball. With the larger ball I was able to raise my lift 13mm higher, enough to link the ramps. In conclusion. For those gathering parts and having to scale the system, I would have to recommend the following: 1. That the ball diameter match the height of the magnetic array magnets. 2. Set your lift to (1.33)x(height of magnets) = LIFT Example: (1.33)x(19mm)~=25.33 3 USA Radio Shack magnet users, Use 35 magnets in each half of the array. four wide and five long. this will make your array 5 inches long (225mm) (I hope we can shorten this) .... and then skin your mouse :) Greg, can you come up with some more guidelines for scaling the rest of the SMOT so people having a hard time finding exact parts can try scaling instead. I'll try to fix up my SMOT some and post some AVI's and pictures soon. The loop is getting closer. Ben ben@clubelite.com ###################### # Ben Tammetta # # ben@clubelite.com # ###################### From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 21:59:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA05261; Tue, 27 May 1997 21:59:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:59:06 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: ben@clubelite.com (Ben Tammetta) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 12:55:11 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: 2 ramp SMOT works...webpage Reply-to: tammetta@mindspring.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199705280007.UAA26662@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Message-ID: <19970528050603235.AAA323@jumanji> Resent-Message-ID: <"SbgdH1.0.zH1.MkxYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3382 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From my webpage... Ben's SMOT Page Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy I'll put more details here soon, but, I thought many of you would like for me to quickly make some pictures and AVI's available to you. They are not the best quality and black and white, but it's something. Bottom Line: Two level SMOT ramps are linked together and working. The steel ball starts at the bottom of ramp 1 and continues past the end of ramp 2. The Steel ball starts by rolling up a ramp and end up 25mm higher, drops 25mm and does it again. (With nothing but Permanet magnets to move it.) KEY POINTS: The ramps are on a faily level surface (my desk) both ramp entrance channels bottoms are flush against the desk Both ramp exit channel bottoms are 25mm above the surface of the desk PARTS: 19mm ball from a PC Mouse, 12mm aluminum channel magnets: ~4x19x25mm ( Radio Shack) arranged 5 long and 4 wide for each rail. with a 1/8x1" (almost 4x24x235mm) wide steel backing. And thin plywood and cardboard for the base. The images and AVI's are here so you can see how big they are. http:/oscar.clubelite.com:8888/smot if that doesn't work http://205.152.8.132:8888/smot http:/205.152.8.132:8888/smot/images Greg what's next? Can I make a curved one now :) Ben ben@clubelite.com ###################### # Ben Tammetta # # ben@clubelite.com # ###################### From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 22:07:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA07886; Tue, 27 May 1997 22:06:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:06:14 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC6AE9.EA45D2E0@ip51.ts2.phx.inficad.com> From: Reed Huish To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Fwd: Third party testing Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:00:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC6AE9.EA4EFAA0" Resent-Message-ID: <"eXmN92.0.3x1.3rxYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3383 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6AE9.EA4EFAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, I staying at home (in New Orleans) "minding the fort" so-to-speak, = so I don't honestly know what will transpire tomorrow (Sunday) in Denver. = I know that Joe is planning a lecture and workshop to demonstrate the technology. Whether or not ANE has the ability to test and what arrangements they can/will make with Joe -- that will be for them to = decide (if they wish)....I do know that a News Conference is planned by ANE on Monday in Denver. Positive announcements would be desirable. Evan, I attended both Newman's presentation and workshop later that day (along = with 2 other people from my company). We were very disappointed that = Joe did not demonstrate his machine. Actually, during his workshop one = of our partners went out and bought a scale, along with a multimeter and = calculator to properly test Newman's machine, but he wouldn't allow it = to do so. I would definitely add us in the "pro overunity" camp and we would love = to see some positive results from Newman. =20 - Reed Huish Zenergy Corp http://zenergy.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6AE9.EA4EFAA0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig8FAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAmAMAAAIAAAAUAAAAAwAAMAUAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAHgAaAAEAAAAUAAAAUkVQT1JULklQTS5O T1RFLk5EUgBAADIAIOuWkyNrvAEDAAQMAAAAAAMABQz/////AwAVDAAAABADAP4PBgAAAB4AARAB AAAARAAAAE5vIHRyYW5zcG9ydCBwcm92aWRlciB3YXMgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGZvciBkZWxpdmVyeSB0 byB0aGlzIHJlY2lwaWVudC4AHgABMAEAAAAXAAAAJ2ZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tpbW8uY29tJwAAAgEL MAEAAAAaAAAAU01UUDpGUkVFTlJHLUxARVNLSU1PLkNPTQAAAAMAADkAAAAAAgESOgEAAABHAAAA AAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AU01UUABmcmVlbnJn LWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbQAAHgATOgEAAAAXAAAAJ2ZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tpbW8uY29tJwAAAgEUOgEA AAAaAAAAU01UUDpGUkVFTlJHLUxARVNLSU1PLkNPTQAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAA BQ4AAAADAAAwBgAAAAsADw4BAAAAAgH/DwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAA ZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AU01UUABmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABUAAABmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbQAAAAAeABoAAQAAAAgA AABJUE0uTk9URQMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABcAAAAnZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5j b20nAAACAQswAQAAABoAAABTTVRQOkZSRUVOUkctTEBFU0tJTU8uQ09NAAAAAwAAOQAAAAACARQ6 AQAAABAAAADkCgokddbQEbl8+AoEwQAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAGOcABBIABAB0A AABSRTogRndkOiBUaGlyZCBwYXJ0eSB0ZXN0aW5nANUJAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcFABsAFgAAACQAAgAw AQEGAAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIASCAAwAOAAAAzQcFABsACQA2AAYA AgA7AQEJgAEAIQAAAEU0MEEwQTI0NzVENkQwMTFCOTdDRjgwQTA0QzEwMDAwAPkGAQOQBgBwBQAA FQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAQL1pFCRrvAEe AHAAAQAAAB0AAABSRTogRndkOiBUaGlyZCBwYXJ0eSB0ZXN0aW5nAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8 ar8JBSQKCuXWdRHQuXz4CgTBAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAARAAAAcmVl ZEB6ZW5lcmd5LmNvbQAAAAADAAYQxFi9RQMABxA+AwAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAV0VMTCxJU1RBWUlO R0FUSE9NRShJTk5FV09STEVBTlMpIk1JTkRJTkdUSEVGT1JUIlNPLVRPLVNQRUFLLFNPSURPTlRI T05FU1RMWUtOT1dXSEFUV0lMTFRSQU5TUElSRVRPTQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAMMDAAC/AwAAfwUAAExa RnV7tnWR/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzIDxgcTAoO6MxMNfQqA CM8J2TsV/3gyNTUCgAqBDbELYG4wZzEwMxQgCwNsabwzNg3wC1UUIgwBcANgBnQFkAVAV2VsbCxQ IEkgcwGQeQuAZxQgYQVAaANwZSAoQwuAB7NPcmxlAHEpKCAibQuAZBxCdGgXHOACEAAgIhvwby10 6R9Qc3AdsGsbwB9ACoVVG+BkAiAnHJJuB5B0QGx5IGtubwfgd18RwAVAA/AboB6QcgBxcH5pFgAe kANwBbADYAfgKLxTdR5AHCAd8B0RRAnw8nYEkC4gG9AKhSGzHqBZHIFKbxzgBAAgC1Fu+wMAHFIg HaAbUAhwHOAAcKZkIfAFsGtzHLBwIzH9ILBlBGAAgCKhGzAekgqFTRsxaCHAFZBneSTxVz8esB6h BcAFsSHABUBBTnpFHKBhBCAeogGgAxBp/nQhkCixGzAcACfUIhEKhdsKwCKxZyjwCfB0LGMhkNpj AHAvIlMAwGsc4APwsx6gJjMtLSXkIlNiHsPlHpJtKKRjaQ2wCoUdAMZmL3QD8WgpLjSxIKKfJZkn QAfBBCAIUG5mBJD9CfBjJmgJgDIAIZAsAgIgnQqFTQIgJBEkW1BvAJD8dGkkwCfRIcAj8DbQLyT5 KCB1bDeRHOANsACQIrB5AmBlLgqPC5ES8gwBY6UAQCA8hUV2AHAsPIX/IDccgBswHkA3ghsgMOAH wX0DgScmkRYAEfACMByAaX8CICfcC2AbMDJiHIE44ij/B0ACIBxgMLMSIEDRK2EfsP8ogB2gHtAD YTBQL7EDcDyw3m4kMCriMJE2kSAkwSGQwR5Qc2FwcG8LgBswvygAJfceUCgAK8Io6mgmge8AwUqA IUAk8UEngQdAIYD9G8BkCHEcUUqCKCchMSuA7zPwCGEmoArAdCFAEeBHMY8CME2hLaQG4HVnaDXC uwTwB0BlG8BESSdAbTtw3zogB4BDYifiT/FjO3AcgP8yUijAGwEfsB2QLSEtgkEX+0rFG8BiTuEe sTtTIOJLof8h0S0AKKMowB9APHYgNztUnw2xC4AtABuQIZBhZCgA7nUEIB0RHqIiGwErgCTB/yPw LQEfIC/QRoAn1FVFJ1D/WlEoohHwHOAfQBzRSDA6Bf9BsVExBCBF40EUJPE/PDFQ5lIJ4CgASHU0 cTyFJQCeWgnwBJAqwDZBcnBgx4FPkHRwOi8vemFkLi5GYT88FSEAZOAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAA AEAABzAgwKuWvmq8AUAACDAgwKuWvmq8AQIBFDoBAAAAEAAAAOQKCiR11tARuXz4CgTBAAAeAD0A AQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAYpU= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6AE9.EA4EFAA0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 22:07:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA08114; Tue, 27 May 1997 22:06:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:06:34 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC6AE9.F7781EA0@ip51.ts2.phx.inficad.com> From: Reed Huish To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Fwd: Third party testing Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:02:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC6AE9.F77FBFC0" Resent-Message-ID: <"_68xO.0.b-1.OrxYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3384 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6AE9.F77FBFC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, I staying at home (in New Orleans) "minding the fort" so-to-speak, = so I don't honestly know what will transpire tomorrow (Sunday) in Denver. = I know that Joe is planning a lecture and workshop to demonstrate the technology. Whether or not ANE has the ability to test and what arrangements they can/will make with Joe -- that will be for them to = decide (if they wish)....I do know that a News Conference is planned by ANE on Monday in Denver. Positive announcements would be desirable. Evan, I attended both Newman's presentation and workshop later that day (along = with 2 other people from my company). We were very disappointed that = Joe did not demonstrate his machine. Actually, during his workshop one = of our partners went out and bought a scale, along with a multimeter and = calculator to properly test Newman's machine, but he wouldn't allow it = to do so. I would definitely add us in the "pro overunity" camp and we would love = to see some positive results from Newman. =20 - Reed Huish Zenergy Corp http://zenergy.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6AE9.F77FBFC0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiUFAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAmAMAAAIAAAAUAAAAAwAAMAUAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAHgAaAAEAAAAUAAAAUkVQT1JULklQTS5O T1RFLk5EUgBAADIAIOuWkyNrvAEDAAQMAAAAAAMABQz/////AwAVDAAAABADAP4PBgAAAB4AARAB AAAARAAAAE5vIHRyYW5zcG9ydCBwcm92aWRlciB3YXMgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGZvciBkZWxpdmVyeSB0 byB0aGlzIHJlY2lwaWVudC4AHgABMAEAAAAXAAAAJ2ZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tpbW8uY29tJwAAAgEL MAEAAAAaAAAAU01UUDpGUkVFTlJHLUxARVNLSU1PLkNPTQAAAAMAADkAAAAAAgESOgEAAABHAAAA AAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AU01UUABmcmVlbnJn LWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbQAAHgATOgEAAAAXAAAAJ2ZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tpbW8uY29tJwAAAgEUOgEA AAAaAAAAU01UUDpGUkVFTlJHLUxARVNLSU1PLkNPTQAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAA BQ4AAAADAAAwBgAAAAsADw4BAAAAAgH/DwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAA ZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AU01UUABmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABUAAABmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbQAAAAAeABoAAQAAAAgA AABJUE0uTk9URQMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABcAAAAnZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5j b20nAAACAQswAQAAABoAAABTTVRQOkZSRUVOUkctTEBFU0tJTU8uQ09NAAAAAwAAOQAAAAACARQ6 AQAAABAAAADkCgokddbQEbl8+AoEwQAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAGOcABBIABAB0A AABSRTogRndkOiBUaGlyZCBwYXJ0eSB0ZXN0aW5nANUJAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcFABsAFgACAB0AAgAr AQEGAAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIASCAAwAOAAAAzQcFABsACQA2AAYA AgA7AQEJgAEAIQAAAEU0MEEwQTI0NzVENkQwMTFCOTdDRjgwQTA0QzEwMDAwAPkGAQOQBgBwBQAA FQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkA4MOOVyRrvAEe AHAAAQAAAB0AAABSRTogRndkOiBUaGlyZCBwYXJ0eSB0ZXN0aW5nAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8 ar8JBSQKCuXWdRHQuXz4CgTBAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAARAAAAcmVl ZEB6ZW5lcmd5LmNvbQAAAAADAAYQxFi9RQMABxA+AwAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAV0VMTCxJU1RBWUlO R0FUSE9NRShJTk5FV09STEVBTlMpIk1JTkRJTkdUSEVGT1JUIlNPLVRPLVNQRUFLLFNPSURPTlRI T05FU1RMWUtOT1dXSEFUV0lMTFRSQU5TUElSRVRPTQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAMMDAAC/AwAAfwUAAExa RnV7tnWR/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzIDxgcTAoO6MxMNfQqA CM8J2TsV/3gyNTUCgAqBDbELYG4wZzEwMxQgCwNsabwzNg3wC1UUIgwBcANgBnQFkAVAV2VsbCxQ IEkgcwGQeQuAZxQgYQVAaANwZSAoQwuAB7NPcmxlAHEpKCAibQuAZBxCdGgXHOACEAAgIhvwby10 6R9Qc3AdsGsbwB9ACoVVG+BkAiAnHJJuB5B0QGx5IGtubwfgd18RwAVAA/AboB6QcgBxcH5pFgAe kANwBbADYAfgKLxTdR5AHCAd8B0RRAnw8nYEkC4gG9AKhSGzHqBZHIFKbxzgBAAgC1Fu+wMAHFIg HaAbUAhwHOAAcKZkIfAFsGtzHLBwIzH9ILBlBGAAgCKhGzAekgqFTRsxaCHAFZBneSTxVz8esB6h BcAFsSHABUBBTnpFHKBhBCAeogGgAxBp/nQhkCixGzAcACfUIhEKhdsKwCKxZyjwCfB0LGMhkNpj AHAvIlMAwGsc4APwsx6gJjMtLSXkIlNiHsPlHpJtKKRjaQ2wCoUdAMZmL3QD8WgpLjSxIKKfJZkn QAfBBCAIUG5mBJD9CfBjJmgJgDIAIZAsAgIgnQqFTQIgJBEkW1BvAJD8dGkkwCfRIcAj8DbQLyT5 KCB1bDeRHOANsACQIrB5AmBlLgqPC5ES8gwBY6UAQCA8hUV2AHAsPIX/IDccgBswHkA3ghsgMOAH wX0DgScmkRYAEfACMByAaX8CICfcC2AbMDJiHIE44ij/B0ACIBxgMLMSIEDRK2EfsP8ogB2gHtAD YTBQL7EDcDyw3m4kMCriMJE2kSAkwSGQwR5Qc2FwcG8LgBswvygAJfceUCgAK8Io6mgmge8AwUqA IUAk8UEngQdAIYD9G8BkCHEcUUqCKCchMSuA7zPwCGEmoArAdCFAEeBHMY8CME2hLaQG4HVnaDXC uwTwB0BlG8BESSdAbTtw3zogB4BDYifiT/FjO3AcgP8yUijAGwEfsB2QLSEtgkEX+0rFG8BiTuEe sTtTIOJLof8h0S0AKKMowB9APHYgNztUnw2xC4AtABuQIZBhZCgA7nUEIB0RHqIiGwErgCTB/yPw LQEfIC/QRoAn1FVFJ1D/WlEoohHwHOAfQBzRSDA6Bf9BsVExBCBF40EUJPE/PDFQ5lIJ4CgASHU0 cTyFJQCeWgnwBJAqwDZBcnBgx4FPkHRwOi8vemFkLi5GYT88FSEAZOAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAA AEAABzAgwKuWvmq8AUAACDAgwKuWvmq8AQIBFDoBAAAAEAAAAOQKCiR11tARuXz4CgTBAAAeAD0A AQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAcJY= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6AE9.F77FBFC0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 22:20:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA12379; Tue, 27 May 1997 22:19:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:19:43 -0700 X-Mailer: BeyondMail for Windows/SMTP 2.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary="BeyondBoundary_1_Tue_May_27_23:39:59_1997__29" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: JD Subject: re: HOW TO GO FASTER THEN LIGHT Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:39:50 -0700 X-BeyondMail-Priority: 1 Message-Id: Conversation-Id: <199705271931.PAA24822@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> In-Reply-To: <199705271931.PAA24822@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Reply-To: JD Resent-Message-ID: <"29qdq.0.K13.k1yYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3385 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --BeyondBoundary_1_Tue_May_27_23:39:59_1997__29 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit > From: "Science wig. sig." , on 5/27/97 2:00 PM: > Make a loop and it would run forever in space! For that matter, would > this work? > > Spin a steal ball on a string with the ball going through the center of a > ring magnet. The magnet will pull it, then push it. In space, this ball > should speed up until it brakes the light barrer (and distroys the > universe). Please give me input on this! > > Andrew Possibly, but it has been conclusively proven that stuffing ten Blue Chip Stamps in a parking meter will freeze time forever. 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Tue, 27 May 1997 23:34:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:34:52 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705280634.XAA23313@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: 2 ramp SMOT works...webpage Resent-Message-ID: <"k1t1s2.0.eo5.B8zYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3386 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ben, Nice website and video of your 2 SMOT ramps in action! That was quick work! I see you used a larger steel ball verses smaller width magnets, a longer ramp with higher exit drop and it still worked! At this rate, your Phase IV close-the-loop track will be the largest of the group! Keep up the good work! Best Regards Michael Randall BTW, what type of straight pins did you use to hold the mag assy in place. At 12:55 PM 5/28/97 +0000, Ben Tammetta wrote: >>From my webpage... > >Ben's SMOT Page >Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy > > I'll put more details here soon, but, I thought many of you would > like for me to quickly make some pictures and AVI's available to > you. They are not the best quality and black and white, but it's > something. > > Bottom Line: > Two level SMOT ramps are linked together and working. > > The steel ball starts at the bottom of ramp 1 and continues past > the end of ramp 2. The Steel ball starts by rolling up a ramp and > end up 25mm higher, drops 25mm and does it again. (With nothing > but Permanet magnets to move it.) > > KEY POINTS: > > The ramps are on a faily level surface (my desk) > both ramp entrance channels bottoms are flush against the > desk Both ramp exit channel bottoms are 25mm above the > surface of the desk > > PARTS: > > 19mm ball from a PC Mouse, 12mm aluminum channel > magnets: ~4x19x25mm ( Radio Shack) > arranged 5 long and 4 wide for each rail. with a 1/8x1" > (almost 4x24x235mm) wide steel backing. And thin plywood and > cardboard for the base. > > The images and AVI's are here so you can see how big they are. > >http:/oscar.clubelite.com:8888/smot >if that doesn't work >http://205.152.8.132:8888/smot >http:/205.152.8.132:8888/smot/images > >Greg what's next? >Can I make a curved one now :) > >Ben >ben@clubelite.com > > > > >###################### ># Ben Tammetta # ># ben@clubelite.com # >###################### > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 23:43:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA17278; Tue, 27 May 1997 23:42:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:42:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705280641.XAA04110@ganymede.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Re: SMOT - rationale Resent-Message-ID: <"PCR3F3.0.sD4.OFzYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3387 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mika Letonsaari wrote: > >There is a good reason for being anxious, because a single ramp shows >nothing new or extraordinary. It is a nice toy and way to learn things but >nothing more. Or have I missed something? > >But linking ramps and making the ball climb up all the way would be >against what we have learnt from schoolbooks. I mean, the magnetic field >can easily increase along one ramp and thus give a lift to an iron ball. >But I can't see how multiple identical linked ramps could form an >increasing magnetic field. That sounds interesting and it would be nice >to know how this is done. > >That's why I'm not personally too excited yet. But if the phase 2 comes >some day... Then we will see if there is a reason for that. > Mika, I don't think you quite understand the claim. The entrance of the linked ramps are all at the same elevation, they do not go successively higher. This may sound less impressive but if you put a hundred ramps together then the little ball will get pulled out of your fingers and travel 20 meters with no power! ( Of course the forth coming curved ramps will be more to the point. ) PS the "schoolbooks" say this is impossible. Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /********************************************************/ /* I don't think that energy is conserved, but it */ /* doesn't matter if useful over-unity operation works! */ /********************************************************/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 23:38:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA23728; Tue, 27 May 1997 23:34:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:34:52 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705280634.XAA23313@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: 2 ramp SMOT works...webpage Resent-Message-ID: <"k1t1s2.0.eo5.B8zYp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3386 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Ben, Nice website and video of your 2 SMOT ramps in action! That was quick work! I see you used a larger steel ball verses smaller width magnets, a longer ramp with higher exit drop and it still worked! At this rate, your Phase IV close-the-loop track will be the largest of the group! Keep up the good work! Best Regards Michael Randall BTW, what type of straight pins did you use to hold the mag assy in place. At 12:55 PM 5/28/97 +0000, Ben Tammetta wrote: >>From my webpage... > >Ben's SMOT Page >Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy > > I'll put more details here soon, but, I thought many of you would > like for me to quickly make some pictures and AVI's available to > you. They are not the best quality and black and white, but it's > something. > > Bottom Line: > Two level SMOT ramps are linked together and working. > > The steel ball starts at the bottom of ramp 1 and continues past > the end of ramp 2. The Steel ball starts by rolling up a ramp and > end up 25mm higher, drops 25mm and does it again. (With nothing > but Permanet magnets to move it.) > > KEY POINTS: > > The ramps are on a faily level surface (my desk) > both ramp entrance channels bottoms are flush against the > desk Both ramp exit channel bottoms are 25mm above the > surface of the desk > > PARTS: > > 19mm ball from a PC Mouse, 12mm aluminum channel > magnets: ~4x19x25mm ( Radio Shack) > arranged 5 long and 4 wide for each rail. with a 1/8x1" > (almost 4x24x235mm) wide steel backing. And thin plywood and > cardboard for the base. > > The images and AVI's are here so you can see how big they are. > >http:/oscar.clubelite.com:8888/smot >if that doesn't work >http://205.152.8.132:8888/smot >http:/205.152.8.132:8888/smot/images > >Greg what's next? >Can I make a curved one now :) > >Ben >ben@clubelite.com > > > > >###################### ># Ben Tammetta # ># ben@clubelite.com # >###################### > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue May 27 23:43:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA17278; Tue, 27 May 1997 23:42:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:42:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705280641.XAA04110@ganymede.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Re: SMOT - rationale Resent-Message-ID: <"PCR3F3.0.sD4.OFzYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3387 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mika Letonsaari wrote: > >There is a good reason for being anxious, because a single ramp shows >nothing new or extraordinary. It is a nice toy and way to learn things but >nothing more. Or have I missed something? > >But linking ramps and making the ball climb up all the way would be >against what we have learnt from schoolbooks. I mean, the magnetic field >can easily increase along one ramp and thus give a lift to an iron ball. >But I can't see how multiple identical linked ramps could form an >increasing magnetic field. That sounds interesting and it would be nice >to know how this is done. > >That's why I'm not personally too excited yet. But if the phase 2 comes >some day... Then we will see if there is a reason for that. > Mika, I don't think you quite understand the claim. The entrance of the linked ramps are all at the same elevation, they do not go successively higher. This may sound less impressive but if you put a hundred ramps together then the little ball will get pulled out of your fingers and travel 20 meters with no power! ( Of course the forth coming curved ramps will be more to the point. ) PS the "schoolbooks" say this is impossible. Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /********************************************************/ /* I don't think that energy is conserved, but it */ /* doesn't matter if useful over-unity operation works! */ /********************************************************/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 00:01:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA19915; Wed, 28 May 1997 00:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 00:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:01:53 +0300 (EET DST) From: Mika Letonsaari To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT - rationale In-Reply-To: <199705280641.XAA04110@ganymede.compumedia.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"OkTc02.0._s4.5XzYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3388 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 27 May 1997, Scott Becker wrote: > Mika, > > I don't think you quite understand the claim. The entrance of the > linked ramps are all at the same elevation, they do not go successively > higher. This may sound less impressive but if you put a hundred ramps > together then the little ball will get pulled out of your fingers and > travel 20 meters with no power! ( Of course the forth coming curved > ramps will be more to the point. ) Ok. Sorry. But now it sounds far more realistic and I'm building one too... -------------------------------------------- Mika Letonsaari, mletonsa@cc.hut.fi, tel. (09) 468 2583 Student of Engineering Physics at Helsinki University of Technology "All science is either physics or stamp collecting." - Ernest Rutherford -------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 01:31:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA04801; Tue, 27 May 1997 22:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970527202709.00ad6b18@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:27:10 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: SMOT Phase 1, 2 & 3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Cq0Gy1.0.h81.KcxYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3381 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For the record: I had success going all the way to phase #3 (Please don't ask me to reveal the details of #2 and #3, that would upset Greg's plan) I am using NdFeB grade-39 magnets, glass V channel and glass ball filled with iron powder all mounted on a plexiglass base. In phase #1 the SMOT ramp works every time and provides over 2inches of lift on a 1" (25mm) ball In Phase #2 the ramps (4pcs) link reliably and allow the ball to traverse all of them without slowing In Phase #3 a new construction of the ramp is used, but it still behaves like the ramp from phase #1 (ie. reliable lift & exit). The tuning experience gained in #1 is vital in adjusting the new ramp. I am only guessing that Greg will call this Phase #3 In Phase #4 the new ramps (4pcs) are joined and the loop is supposed to be closed. I was not successful at this step (probably engineering problems), I am getting partial success though. Note: I am not following Greg's directions at this point. The idea to link 4 ramps from Phase #2 at 90 degree angle does not work. I tried it, Greg tried it and we came to a conclusion that the ball has to move away from the ramp in the 3rd dimension (up/down) not sideways but parallel to the ramp's length. In order to link the 4 ramps into a loop you will have to wait for the secret in Phase #3 & #4. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 05:37:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA11061; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:36:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:36:51 -0700 Message-ID: <338C1BA3.55A9@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:18:51 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 2 ramp SMOT works...webpage References: <19970528050603235.AAA323@jumanji> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Or0Op1.0.ki2.YR2Zp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3390 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ben Tammetta wrote: > > Greg what's next? > Can I make a curved one now :) > > Ben Hi Ben, Great work. I have downloaded all your images. I would suggest you link 2 more ramps. The middle two then have to work with mag fields on each end. When you get 4 linked, try the party trick and see how many ball you can get in transit at one time. I could get 8 to 10 balls going at once. It really looks great. Then try lifting each succeding ramp by a few mm until you can get the final lift twice the first lift. When you get there, I will show you how to get a roll away! Best Regards and congrats on the results, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 05:39:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA19645; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338C2153.2155@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:43:07 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 3 or 4 ramps head to tail? References: <970527201835_72240.1256_EHB53-2@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OlhW81.0.ro4.HS2Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3391 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > To: Vortex > > John Logajan, who has taken to signing his messages twice -- John Logajan, who > has taken to signing his messages twice, says: > > And speaking of ramps in a series -- again there is the potential for > illusion, since the ramps are all adjusted by "feel", one might > unintentionally get the ball to move through all four ramps by making > each ramp magnetic field stronger than the previous one. Once adjusted for linked operation, the individual ramps can be swapped around. The field at the top of the last ramp is the same as that at the top of the first. There is no creeping field increase here. > Good point! > > Greg: > > Is there any reason why four ramps cannot be arranged head to tail, in a loop? > Does the ball object to turning 90 degrees after it falls? Would it jump out > of the second ramp, and if so, couldn't you prevent this with some kind of cup > to catch it? The ball must stay on the "Neutral line" between the magnet arrays. Some slight angular linking is possible, but I have found that the best I could get is around 7-8 deg. > For that matter, you might arrange three ramps in a triangle, instead of four > in a square. Wish it were that easy. > If you, or anyone else trying this experiment, can close the loop with three > or four ramps please do so as soon as possible. This is the acid test. The loop will close. > If the ball does not want to take a sharp turn between ramps, I suppose you > will need five or six to make a circle. Still much too sharp. > I do not think that we can be so sure > about Logajan's earlier statement that a "J" shaped return could make the ball > go back to the beginning with only one ramp. It seems to me the magnets above > might prevent it from rolling back. A series of ramps seems like a fairer > test. > > The descriptions, schematics, photographs and parts lists have been most > helpful. This already takes the prize for the most open, understated, and > apparently sane o-u magnetic motor project in history. It is also one of the > best cooperative efforts I have seen, reminiscent of the early days in > microcomputers. It is a shame CF is so hard to do. However, speaking of > history, I believe I have seen schematics for similar magnet-ramp-and-hole > gadgets in articles about perpetual motion machines. I recall one in the > Scientific American. In other words, people have tried similar approaches many > times, with no success. But you never know. Perhaps they never tried this > particular design. A slight change can make a world of difference in > technology. 99.999% of the time a slight change has a deleterious effect. > Years ago this was demonstrated at Intel when the workers ran frozen pizzas > through the chip fabrication ovens during slack hours. No kidding! Their > clean-room standards were tightened up since then, but several orders of > magnitude, I bet. As far as I know, my SMOT ramp design and linking system is unique. The design looks simple, but its not. There has been much work done on controlling the mag field under the ramp and the exit characteristics. Very small changes will stop the devices operation. But once adjusted, the operation is very soild! > - Jed Hi Jed, Hang in there. Four Linked ramps with 8-10 balls rolling up and down is really an eye opener. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 05:39:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA19661; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338C1EAD.4878@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:31:49 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: There are NO stupid questions (?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"97wo51.0.Vo4.9S2Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3389 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve Ekwall wrote: > > On Tue, 27 May 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > > > > And for the BUILD phase... > > > I have earlyer already 2 models made, one with round alnico-5 magnets > > > and one with 50x19x5 magnets (Both a succes for a SINGLE model). > > > The problem is that I really need the 13x10x5 magnets and I can't find > > > them anywhere yet. > > > Here comes my problem: In ALL the models I have made and seen, the > > > exit point is just before the start of the last magnet. > Hopefully there are no stupid questions, but even my wife is excited about > building one of these smot1 'toys' QUESTION: are these "bar magnets" like > a tootsie roll shape OR Flat and Stacked "Disk (ceramic style)" stack.. > Question arises as I SEE "BarS" stack nsnsnsn but NO "North/ South" as in > jnaudin pics. My wife says you mean "Flat Round" coin shaped magnets. > Of course she's a Chemist(!) so what does she know. Oddly we can both > make your mm x mm x mm demensions fit our agrument! :) > Thanks ( one of us will take the other out to dinner :) we both win! > se > > ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ > -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 Hi Steve, The magnets are rectangular blocks. Mine are 4x10x13mm, magnetised through the 4mm thickness. One array has the N pole facing into the ramp and the other array has the S pole facing into the ramp. Hope this helps, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 05:39:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA11994; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:38:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:38:40 -0700 From: M2Milly@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:38:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970528083803_-162445556@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HOW TO GO FASTER THEN LIGHT-stuff Resent-Message-ID: <"C3JCX.0.Ex2.ET2Zp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3392 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 97-05-28: << File: ATTRIBS.BND (2668 bytes) DL Time (28800 bps): < 1 minute ...... it has been conclusively proven that stuffing ten Blue Chip Stamps in a parking meter will freeze time forever. JD>> Beyond Packed Attributes????? OK where is the rest of your story??? You may enjoy some of the research below FOR MAGNETS SEE #6 ETHERIAL ELECTROGRAVITICS by Bill Hamilton 1. MODERN ETHER DRIFT EXPERIMENT A. Brillet and J.L. Hall conducted a modern ether drift experiment in 1979. Brillet and Hall put a laser on a rotating platform and split the beam. One part of the beam went into a Fabry-Perot interferometer, the other was directed via mirrors off the platform to be compared with a reference beam from a stationary laser. The frequency of the rotating laser was compared with that of the reference laser; the difference was Fourier analyzed. Any anisotropy of the speed of light would show up as a frequency shift which varied dependent on the direction of the interferometer. If the old pre-Lorentz ether theory were true (static ether), they would have found a frequency shift dependent on sidereal direction of the interferometer and found no such effect. They also found a frequency shift of 17 Hz at twice the table rotation rate, which they could not explain on direction of interferometer with respect to the lab. It is this effect which is predicted by an entrained ether theory. ***An entrained ether theory favors a dynamic ether, an ether that can be entrained in motion by a rotating object, such as earth, embedded within the dynamic ether.*** 2. ETHER EXPLANATIONS If a velocity-dependent medium such as the ether could be established by experiment, then it could open the door to alternative explanations to SR and GR regarding physical phenomena. If this ether is quantized, then we could explore the theoretical nature of a quantum ether. Is gravity a result of some state of the quantum ether? ***Does the quantum ether explain inertia?*** What does an electric ormagnetic field do to the state of the quantum ether? Are material particles some wave-state of the quantum ether? Can we unify physical principles by considering a quantum ether? 3. EXPERIMENTING WITH LIGHT A test of light speed could be made if some object holding a measuring device could accelerate to some sizable fraction of light speed, say .5c, and test the speed of an electromagnetic emission from this object through space to a reflection point and back to the object from the reference frame of the moving object. Also, Bryan Wallace delivered a paper on the 1961 measurements of the distance of Venus using radar. Wallace claims that the inconsistencies in the measurements are not supportive of SR, but ***support a C+v velocity for the radar signal.*** Perhaps a review of this data, and further refined experiments could determine if the data is consistent with SR or Galilean addition of velocities. 4. SPACE DRIVES Why is it important to determine the nature of the ether of space and time? One obvious answer is to determine whether we could find new ways to travel through space or time. ****The most common solution offered in the past has been to use hyperspatial dimensions to cross enormous distances that separate stellar systems.**** While it is true that space could harbor more than three dimensions, and time could be enfolded from greater than one dimension, the energy dimensions of ether have yet to be explored. NASA is now interested in breakthrough physics, on new solutions to space travel, on dispensing with rocket propellants ****and finding new sources of energy, and on theoretical means for breaking the light barrier.**** ****If the light barrier can be broken by some sort of inertial drive, a drive that changes the resistance of the ether, reducing that resistance in a forward direction, then the velocity of an object may, indeed, exceed the measured velocity of light.***** In actual fact, if the properties of weight and mass can be nullified by application of electromagnetic forces to the ether in the vicinity of our test object, the object may be propelled without inertial lag and "g" forces to reach incredible speeds with the slightest expenditure of energy. 5. EXPERIMENTS IN ELECTROGRAVITICS According to the Air Force Manual from Wright-Patterson AFB on Electrogravitics we have this description on the Thomas Townsend Brown discovery. Electrogravitics might be described as a synthesis of electrostatic energy used for propulsion - either vertical propulsion or horizontal or both - and gravitics, or dynamic counterbary, in which energy is also used to set up a local gravitational force independent of the earth's. Electrostatic energy for propulsion has been predicted as a possible means of propulsion in space when the thrust from a neutron motor or ion motor would be sufficient in a dragless environment to produce astronomical velocities. But the ion motor is not strictly a part of the science of electrogravitics, since barycentric control in an electrogravitics system is envisaged for a vehicle operating within the earth's environment and it is not seen initially for space application. Probably large scale space operations would have to await the full development of electrogravitics to enable large pieces of equipment to be moved out of the region of the earth's strongest gravity effects. So, though electrostatic motors were thought of in 1925, electrogravitics had its birth after the War, when Townsend Brown sought to improve on the various proposals that then existed for electrostatic motors sufficiently to produce some visible manifestation of sustained motion. Whereas earlier electrostatic tests were essentially pure research, Brown's rigs were aimed from the outset at producing a flying article. As a private venture he produced evidence of motion using condensers in a couple of saucers suspended by arms rotating round a central tower with input running down the arms. The massive-k situation was summarized subsequently in a report, Project Winterhaven, in 1952. Using the data some conclusions were arrived at that might be expected from ten or more years of intensive development - similar to that, for instance, applied to the turbine engine. Using a number of assumptions as to the nature of gravity, the report postulated a saucer as the basis of a possible interceptor with Mach 3 capability. Creation of a local gravitational system would confer upon the fighter the sharp-edged changes of direction typical of motion in space. The essence of electrogravitics thrust is the use of a very strong positive charge on one side of the vehicle and a negative on the other. The core of the motor is a condenser and the ability of the condenser to hold its charge (the k-number) is the yardstick of performance. With air as 1, current dielectrical materials can yield 6 and use of barium aluminate can raise this considerably, barium titanium oxide (a baked ceramic) can offer 6,000 and there is promise of 30,000, which would be sufficient for supersonic speed. The original Brown rig produced 30 fps on a voltage of around 50,000 and a small amount of current in the milliamp range. There was no detailed explanation of gravity in Project Winterhaven, but it was assumed that particle dualism in the subatomic structure of gravity would coincide in its effect with the issuing stream of electrons from the electrostatic energy source to produce counterbary. The Brown work probably remains a realistic approach to the practical realization of electrostatic propulsion and sustentation. Whatever may be discovered by the Gravity Research Foundation of New Boston a complete understanding and synthetic reproduction of gravity is not essential for limited success. The electrogravitics saucer can perform the function of a classic lifting surface - it produces a pushing effect on the under surface and a suction effect on the upper, but, unlike the airfoil, it does not require a flow of air to produce the effect. 6. AN EXPERIMENT IN MAGNETOGRAVITICS The limitation in potential difference achieved by the Brown apparatus has led some of us involved in gravity research to consider the use of magnets and magnetic fields. The basis of this concept in magnetogravitics is the MHD generator. If a hot gas is seeded with certain elements and the gas is totally ionized this will produce a plasma in which all nucleons and electrons are disassociated in a hydrodynamic mixture. This charged or stratified charged mixture is confined to a volume of space by bottling it inside a magnetic field. Varying magnetic fields are also used to deflect cathode rays in television tubes or particle acclerators. By confining the charges in a magnetic bottle very high potentials can develop without dielectric breakdown. Much is known concerning magnetic flux rotation through conductors or conduction currents confined by magnetic fields, but little is known about interacting magnetic fields. An experiment now being assembled tests the hypothesis that a homopolar generator, a generator consisting of a coupled conducting disk and magnet that co-rotates with the armature. Usually such an apparatus is tapped for high amperage currents. In my proposal the homopolar generator rotates within a time-varying magnetic field to increase the potential difference across the radius of the disk, maintaining this potential by magnetic confinement of rim charge. A conducting disk of Alnico with a slightly raised center would be an ideal armature as it should act as a one-piece homopolar generator. In previous measurements of spinning homopolar disks, the center becomes strongly positive and the rim of the disk, negative. This could be considered an open Brown capacitor that should exhibit an electrogravity effect. It is also proposed that measurements should be taken similar to the measurements taken in the Finnish superconductor weight-reduction experiments. 7. FUTURE DIRECTIONS In effect, electrogravitic or magnetogravitic propulsion if successfully developed would lead to a novel form of asymmetric thrust that could be adapted to ground, air, and space transport systems. Such devices could be energized using fuel cells or possibly so-called cold fusion cells and revolutionize our entire systems of transportation. Beyond this we must find means to extend our exploration of space. Bill Hamilton Executive Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable." MjMichael FutrTools Crosspollination seeds the universe of the mind. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 05:42:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA20122; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:41:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:41:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705281242.IAA01902@ns.bluegrass.net> From: "SAM GORDON" To: Subject: Re: This SMOT thing works!! Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:42:12 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"c1p2-3.0.Dw4.UV2Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3393 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- >> At 10:32 PM 5/26/97 -0700, you wrote: > > > >The hacksaw blade is made out of a very hard steel that is NOT very soft > >magnetically (low permeability). The hacksaw blade is not a good > >substitute for a strip of a real soft steel. > > > >BTW: The bearing ball is also made out of a very hard alloy and its > >permeability is not as high as iron or soft steel. > > > > > >At 06:13 PM 5/26/97 -0400, you wrote: > > I couldn't find any small refrig magnets > >>so I used 16 round 11mm x 4mm > >>ceramic mags i had here, That I glued on a piece of hacksaw blade which is > >>10mm wide x 1.5 or 2mm thick I managed to get the steel ball to roll up the > >>ramp 8 mm higher > > > > > > > I didn't realize this post would cause problems, I used the above only for a temporary trial, all sources where closed on memmorial day. I'm now gathering the items to make a proper smot. But you know, the thing still worked with the wrong stuff. But it may not work for the multi ramp phase so I plan on making the ramp as per Greg's design. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 05:51:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA21627; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Comments: Authenticated sender is From: ben@clubelite.com (Ben Tammetta) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:46:27 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: 2 ramp SMOT works...webpage Reply-to: tammetta@mindspring.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199705280634.XAA23313@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Message-ID: <19970528125732353.AAA107@jumanji> Resent-Message-ID: <"sOKUc1.0.kH5.ne2Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3394 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Michael, > Michael Randall > > BTW, what type of straight pins did you use to hold the mag assy in place. Push pins,/ Thumb tacts, used for putting infomation on cork boards. They go through a layer of cardboard and into plywood. > > > > The images and AVI's are here so you can see how big they are. > > > >http:/oscar.clubelite.com:8888/smot ###################### # Ben Tammetta # # ben@clubelite.com # ###################### From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 08:41:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA17412; Wed, 28 May 1997 08:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338C5F3D.574A@cmet.net> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 12:37:17 -0400 From: ce3cwf = felix meyer Reply-To: ce3cwf@cmet.net Organization: CE3CWF X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT : the SECRET to close loop Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AAESb1.0.lF4.t65Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3395 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How to close the loop ===================== With interest I am watching the SMOT project of Greg Watson. If you want to close the loop you have to modify the output side of the Mag Field. Bend it roughly 90 deg to both sides and you will be able to close the loop. Dont work linear, think 3 dimensional. I think Greg will explain in Phase 4 how to adjust the magnets. It works great ! Felix -- mailto:ce3cwf@cmet.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 10:23:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA04734 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 28 May 1997 10:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:23:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: Puthoff@aol.com Wed May 28 10:23:27 1997 Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com (emout16.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.42]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA04677; Wed, 28 May 1997 10:23:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Puthoff@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA19576; Wed, 28 May 1997 13:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970528132211_-1999881547@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic OU: Discussion X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 5/23/97 9:16:05 AM, Greg Watson asked for clarification of what I wrote: Hal: << Magnetic field energy is decreased as object moves into and quenches part of the field distribution; >> Greg: <> Actually, it is the opposite. When the domains align, the little, say, south poles are attracted to the external applied, say, north pole, and the little north poles are repelled. Therefore, the alignment of domains within the material serve to cancel out (weaken) locally the magnetic field that would have otherwise been there. The overall result is that the field energy has been reduced, this energy now going into moving the ball; i.e., field energy is transformed into kinetic energy. Hal From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 11:01:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA10769; Wed, 28 May 1997 10:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338C713B.68D4@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 19:54:03 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ben@clubelite.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 2 ramp SMOT works...webpage References: <19970528050603235.AAA323@jumanji> <338C685C.2741@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"u6wA_.0.9e2.d77Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3396 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ben Tammetta wrote: > > Ben's SMOT Page > Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy > > I'll put more details here soon, but, I thought many of you would > like for me to quickly make some pictures and AVI's available to > you. They are not the best quality and black and white, but it's > something. > > The images and AVI's are here so you can see how big they are. > > http://oscar.clubelite.com:8888/smot > if that doesn't work > http://205.152.8.132:8888/smot > http:/205.152.8.132:8888/smot/images > > > Ben > ben@clubelite.com > > ###################### > # Ben Tammetta # > # ben@clubelite.com # > ###################### Hi Ben, Great, Great, Great work !!! I have made a 'Link-to' page on my homepage where all the 'SMOT' type hompages are. ( i hope there are soon comming more. ) Can you immagine that i'm desperate waiting for my magnets... :-( P.S.: Why are youre AVI's in Hi quality and your photo's not so ? (Could you not 'photo video' the shots, and save them as stills ? ) -- Anyway Great ! Ronald. Homepage HTTP://www.worldonline.nl/~catware From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 11:18:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA18939; Wed, 28 May 1997 11:10:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:10:26 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:10:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: albec.net.mx: [207.3.135.31] didn't use HELO protocol Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970528122209.277f49f8@albec.net.mx> X-Sender: pascalin@albec.net.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: Arturo Pascalin Subject: flexible strip magnet Resent-Message-ID: <"etGne2.0.qd4.GK7Zp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3397 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello: I'm new to the list and at first I didnt understand what was going on, but Im starting to catch up. I want to try to build a smot for myself, but I have a question... I found a flexible strip magnet of 9.5 x 3.0 mm section and can be cut to any length. It cost only 10 pesos (1.25 USD)/meter in the local hardware store. Can this be use to build the smot? Thanks ____ _ __ | _ \ __ _ ___ ___ __ _| /_/_ __ | |_) / _` / __|/ __/ _` | | | '_ \ | __/ (_| \__ \ (_| (_| | | | | | | |_| \__,_|___/\___\__,_|_|_|_| |_| Arturo Pascalin < http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2508 > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 11:37:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA15718; Wed, 28 May 1997 11:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:31:57 +0200 Message-Id: <199705281831.UAA16287@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@shell2.ba.best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Intel bugs.. :) Resent-Message-ID: <"9imKl.0.Sr3.sb7Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3398 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Jed Rothwell wrote: >> A slight change can make a world of difference in > technology. 99.999% of the time a slight change has a deleterious effect. > Years ago this was demonstrated at Intel when the workers ran frozen pizzas > through the chip fabrication ovens during slack hours. No kidding! Their > clean-room standards were tightened up since then, but several orders of > magnitude, I bet. Now I know, why Intel chips seems to come with a few bugs every year ! :) Just kidding ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 12:05:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA21858; Wed, 28 May 1997 12:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 12:02:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970528122209.277f49f8@albec.net.mx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:58:21 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: flexible strip magnet Resent-Message-ID: <"h2cLT.0.RL5.558Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3399 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Arturo - > I found a flexible strip magnet [...] > Can this be use to build the smot? NO! Mixed polarity on the same face makes these unusable. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 13:39:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA07683; Wed, 28 May 1997 13:36:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:36:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970528133543.00ad2a1c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:35:45 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: 2 ramp SMOT + wedge Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Wx9Wy3.0.yt1.2T9Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3400 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ben, I have seen you video and noticed that you do not use a wedge between the 1st and 2nd ramp. I use a small wedge to transform the vertical fall from the 1st ramp to a horizontal movement in the 2nd ramp. Without the wedge quite a lot of energy is wasted when the ball hits the U channel of the 2nd ramp after it exits and falls from the 1st ramp. I am using thick glass for the wedge since it is nonferromagnetic, hard and doesn't dampen the fall like a soft aluminum does. At 12:55 PM 5/28/97 +0000, you wrote: >From my webpage... > >Ben's SMOT Page >Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy > > I'll put more details here soon, but, I thought many of you would > like for me to quickly make some pictures and AVI's available to > you. They are not the best quality and black and white, but it's > something. > > Bottom Line: > Two level SMOT ramps are linked together and working. > > The steel ball starts at the bottom of ramp 1 and continues past > the end of ramp 2. The Steel ball starts by rolling up a ramp and > end up 25mm higher, drops 25mm and does it again. (With nothing > but Permanet magnets to move it.) > > KEY POINTS: > > The ramps are on a faily level surface (my desk) > both ramp entrance channels bottoms are flush against the > desk Both ramp exit channel bottoms are 25mm above the > surface of the desk > > PARTS: > > 19mm ball from a PC Mouse, 12mm aluminum channel > magnets: ~4x19x25mm ( Radio Shack) > arranged 5 long and 4 wide for each rail. with a 1/8x1" > (almost 4x24x235mm) wide steel backing. And thin plywood and > cardboard for the base. > > The images and AVI's are here so you can see how big they are. > >http:/oscar.clubelite.com:8888/smot >if that doesn't work >http://205.152.8.132:8888/smot >http:/205.152.8.132:8888/smot/images > >Greg what's next? >Can I make a curved one now :) > >Ben >ben@clubelite.com > > > > >###################### ># Ben Tammetta # ># ben@clubelite.com # >###################### > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 13:44:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA16122; Wed, 28 May 1997 13:42:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:42:30 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970528134250.00adbaec@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:42:52 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: flexible strip magnet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"k8UtY.0.px3.rY9Zp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3401 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: WARNING: The flexible strip magnets are TOTALLY unsuitable for Simple OU toy. They are polarized with south and north poles ON THE SAME SIDE. (ie. SNSNSNSNSNSN like this...). They are used to hold objects down and this pole configuration is much more efficient than one pole on one side and an opposite pole on another side of the strip. Many of the sheet magnets have up to 10 poles per square inch !!! The flexible magnets are also very weak. Compare in the chart below: Material Grade Demagnet Curie BH-Strength NdFeB g39 - 21,300 150 40 SmCo g26 - 10,000 300 26 AlNiCo g05 - 640 540 5.5 Ceramic g08 - 3,200 300 3.5 (BaFe2O3 or SrFe2O3) Flexible g01 - 1,300 100 0.6 Grade = Material quality grade (alloy type ie. ALNICO 5) Demagnet = Demagnetizing force in Oersteds Curie = Curie Temperature in Degrees Celsius BH-Strength = Maximum Energy Product in Mega Gauss Oersteds (MGO) The above clearly shows that AlNiCo is THE EASIEST to demagnetize. However AlNiCo has the highest Curie temperature of them all - 540degC. The Neodymium (NdFeB) magnets are the strongest (ie. they have the highest energy product). Flexible magnets are the weakest. At 01:10 PM 5/28/97 -0500, you wrote: >Hello: > >I'm new to the list and at first I didnt understand what was going on, >but Im starting to catch up. I want to try to build a smot for myself, >but I have a question... > >I found a flexible strip magnet of 9.5 x 3.0 mm section and can be cut >to any length. It cost only 10 pesos (1.25 USD)/meter in the local hardware >store. > >Can this be use to build the smot? > >Thanks > ____ _ __ >| _ \ __ _ ___ ___ __ _| /_/_ __ >| |_) / _` / __|/ __/ _` | | | '_ \ >| __/ (_| \__ \ (_| (_| | | | | | | >|_| \__,_|___/\___\__,_|_|_|_| |_| >Arturo Pascalin >< http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2508 > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 14:00:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA19443; Wed, 28 May 1997 13:56:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:56:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:02:32 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: tammetta@mindspring.com cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 1 ramp works, 2 don't, IT WORKS NOW! In-Reply-To: <19970528045437449.AAA344@jumanji> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"V_3la1.0.el4.9m9Zp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3402 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 28 May 1997, Ben Tammetta wrote: > > > I got all my parts today and spent a lot of time building and > > > playing with my SMOT. My parts match Gregs pretty closely. 12mm ***> > > ball, 12mm aluminum channel magnets: ~4x19x25mm ( RadioShack) > > > arranged 5 long and 4 wide for each rail. with a 1/8x1" (almost > > > 4x24mm) wide steel backing. And thin plywood and cardboard for Ben, are these the radio shack 4x19x25mm Magnets Radio Shack sells "with a little ~5mm hole in the center" (i think they are designed for 'chokes' in electrical circuts. IF THESE WORK, then I'll get 40 of them for the 4 (upcoming linkable ramps).. didn't know if they were 'strong' enough however, as I have some small 'bar/tube' magnetics that are MUCH stronger.. appears you got the radio shack "Chokers" working OK! do you have 12mm+/- rise(lift)>? Thanks se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 14:19:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA15531; Wed, 28 May 1997 14:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:21:40 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: tammetta@mindspring.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 2 ramp SMOT works...webpage In-Reply-To: <19970528050603235.AAA323@jumanji> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"A0yKm2.0.Zo3.b2AZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3403 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 28 May 1997, Ben Tammetta wrote: > PARTS: > > 19mm ball from a PC Mouse, 12mm aluminum channel > magnets: ~4x19x25mm ( Radio Shack) ---------> arranged 5 long and 4 wide for each rail. with a 1/8x1" > (almost 4x24x235mm) wide steel backing. And thin plywood and > cardboard for the base. well, i bought 40 Radio Shack mags, but are you saying 5x4="20" per side (or 40!per ramp)(?) so i'll/you will need 160 for 4 ramps.. BACK to the store (if so,) don't know if they had that many left in the box though (sigh).. :( ALSO, how do you get "4wide" 4*19mm or US decimal "'s = ~3" to fit on a 1" wide metal strap (overlapping and hanging over?). thanks se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 15:17:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA25352; Wed, 28 May 1997 15:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705282215.PAA25304@mx2.eskimo.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Ben Tammetta" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:13:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: 2 ramp SMOT works...webpage Reply-to: ben@tammetta.com Priority: normal References: <19970528050603235.AAA323@jumanji> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"ziAKS3.0.1C6.ZwAZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3405 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, > > PARTS: > > > > 19mm ball from a PC Mouse, 12mm aluminum channel > > magnets: ~4x19x25mm ( Radio Shack) > ---------> arranged 5 long and 4 wide for each rail. with a 1/8x1" > > (almost 4x24x235mm) wide steel backing. And thin plywood and > > cardboard for the base. > > well, i bought 40 Radio Shack mags, but are you saying 5x4="20" per > side (or 40!per ramp)(?) so i'll/you will need 160 for 4 ramps.. YES There a chance you can shorten it to 4x4. But i have not tried it. I'd play it safe and build a 5x4 one. > box though (sigh).. :( ALSO, how do you get "4wide" 4*19mm or US decimal > "'s = ~3" to fit on a 1" wide metal strap (overlapping and hanging over?). The magnets are in english units... I just measured it in mm's to make things easier. instead of 1/8"X3/4"X1". mm's scale much easier. I wish the US would get on the metric system. The magnets are laid down longwais.... not up and down. not 1" high... 3/4" high. or 19mm high... measure in mm's > thanks welcome Ben ############################ # Ben Tammetta # # ben@interactive.ibm.com # ############################ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 15:34:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA06660; Wed, 28 May 1997 15:32:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:32:33 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:38:32 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: Arturo Pascalin cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: flexible strip magnet In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970528122209.277f49f8@albec.net.mx> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"nuzUW1.0.yd1.0ABZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3406 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 28 May 1997, Arturo Pascalin wrote: > > I'm new to the list and at first I didnt understand what was going on, > but Im starting to catch up. I want to try to build a smot for myself, > but I have a question... > I found a flexible strip magnet of 9.5 x 3.0 mm section and can be cut > to any length. It cost only 10 pesos (1.25 USD)/meter in the local hardware > store. > Can this be use to build the smot? > Thanks > < http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2508 > Arturo, I don't think so, hopefully others will reply to you, but the group seems to say that the 'flexable 'strip' magnetics' are lined up molecularly end to end as in nsnsnsnsnsnsnsnsnsns ALL the way through the strip. SMOT1 needs the "WIDE FACE" facing the ball to be either North or South... if square or round or flat.. the N/S MUST face out to the ball track and not END to END! (hence the super-Glue or tape .. as they will try to 'jump around and realign. Radio Shack has small 'Choke' type magnets for $0.32 US each (appears to take 10 - 40 per section depending on who's setup you follow.. when in doubt ASK GREG: He's the general/LEADER.. (i'm using radio shack until i can get his spec'd mags.) ----------------- Imagine that the magnets are COINS, 'Heads'=North Polarity, while 'Tails'=South Polarity... the Coins(mags) will be glued/fastened ALL HEADS OUT on one(1) side of the ramp & ALL TAILS OUT facing on the other side, the ball flies up the middle BETWEEN the row of coins/MAGNETS. - + - + - + - + tails heads(+) o <----- BALL goes UP! se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 15:45:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA29080; Wed, 28 May 1997 15:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338CB2F4.3022@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:34:28 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: catware@worldonline.nl CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic OU: Discussion References: <970528132211_-1999881547@emout16.mail.aol.com> <338C8A42.2331@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wzl5t2.0.B67.UEBZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3407 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Puthoff@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/23/97 9:16:05 AM, Greg Watson asked for > clarification of what I wrote: > > Hal: << Magnetic field energy is decreased as object moves into > and quenches part of the field distribution; >> > > Greg: < If the object is a soft ferromagnetic material, the field energy > increases due to the additive action of the soft aligning domains > in the ferrite.>> > > Actually, it is the opposite. When the domains align, the little, > say, south poles are attracted to the external applied, say, north pole, > and the little north poles are repelled. Therefore, the alignment of > domains within the material serve to cancel out (weaken) locally the > magnetic field that would have otherwise been there. The overall result > is that the field energy has been reduced, this energy now going into > moving the ball; i.e., field energy is transformed into kinetic energy. > > Hal Hi Hal, My book 'repertorium der natuurkunde' says: "magnetic property of the matter. --------------------------------- In the general a magnetic field is affected through the presence of matter in it's field. This matter becomes more or less magnatized and the hereof propagating induction lines are add by the orginal field. With the most materials this influence comes down on a merely adding (paramagnetism) or weakening (diamagnetism) of the magnetic field. There are nevertheless some materials, the so called ferromagnetic materials, which when put in a magnetic field, this field localy considerable strengthen (amplifies)." This text is dutch orginal, so here is the orginal text also: "Magnetische eigenschappen van de materie: ------------------------------------------ in het algemeen wordt een magnetisch veld beinvloed door de aanwezigheid van materie in dit veld. Deze materie wordt meer of minder gemagnetiseerd en de hieruit voortspruitende inductielijnen voegen zich bij het oorspronkelijke veld. Bij de meeste stoffen komt deze beinvloeding neer op een slechts geringe versterking (paramagnetisme) of verzwakking (diamagnetisme) van het magnetische veld. Er zijn echter enkele stoffen, de zogenaamde ferromagnetische materialen die, in een magnetisch veld gebracht, dit veld plaatselijk aanzienlijk versterken." This is also confirmed by the Quickfield simulation gifs. P.S.: Sorry if this msg appears twice, my outbox did strange... -- Ronald. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 15:45:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA00160; Wed, 28 May 1997 15:44:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:44:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338C8A42.2331@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:40:50 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic OU: Discussion References: <970528132211_-1999881547@emout16.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Sbvcp.0.F2.eKBZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3408 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Puthoff@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/23/97 9:16:05 AM, Greg Watson asked for > clarification of what I wrote: > > Hal: << Magnetic field energy is decreased as object moves into > and quenches part of the field distribution; >> > > Greg: < If the object is a soft ferromagnetic material, the field energy > increases due to the additive action of the soft aligning domains > in the ferrite.>> > > Actually, it is the opposite. When the domains align, the little, > say, south poles are attracted to the external applied, say, north pole, > and the little north poles are repelled. Therefore, the alignment of > domains within the material serve to cancel out (weaken) locally the > magnetic field that would have otherwise been there. The overall result > is that the field energy has been reduced, this energy now going into > moving the ball; i.e., field energy is transformed into kinetic energy. > > Hal Hi Hal, My book 'repertorium der natuurkunde' says: "magnetic property of the matter. --------------------------------- In the general a magnetic field is affected through the presence of matter in it's field. This matter becomes more or less magnatized and the hereof propagating induction lines are add by the orginal field. With the most material this influence comes down on a merely adding (paramagnetism) or weakening (diamagnetism) of the magnetic field. There are nevertheless some materials, the so called ferromagnetic materials, which put in a magnetic field this field localy considerable strengthen (amplifies)." This text is dutch orginal, so here is the orginal text also: "Magnetische eigenschappen van de materie: ------------------------------------------ in het algemeen wordt een magnetisch veld beinvloed door de aanwezigheid van materie in dit veld. Deze materie wordt meer of minder gemagnetiseerd en de hieruit voortspruitende inductielijnen voegen zich bij het oorspronkelijke veld. Bij de meeste stoffen komt deze beinvloeding neer op een slechts geringe versterking (paramagnetisme) of verzwakking (diamagnetisme) van het magnetische veld. Er zijn echter enkele stoffen, de zogenaamde ferromagnetische materialen die, in een magnetisch veld gebracht, dit veld plaatselijk aanzienlijk versterken." This is also confirmed by the Quickfield simulation gifs. -- Ronald. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 16:00:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA02149; Wed, 28 May 1997 15:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338CB705.5021@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 08:21:49 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Phase 2 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6E65D05C22" Resent-Message-ID: <"8glAL.0.SX.nUBZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3409 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6E65D05C22 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Attached are some suggested SMOT ramp mods to make linking easier. I guess that means we have started Phase 2. Some of you are really going fast. Slow down and HELP the others, spread your experiences around. Lets get dozens if not hundreds BUILDING and PLAYING with these SMOT ramps. In Phase 2 there are several goals that I would ask ALL of you to achieve : 1) Link 4 SMOT ramps in a straignt line. 2) Lift each suceeding ramp several mm above the preceeding ramp and achieve a final lift twice the lift in the first ramp. For links based on the plans, thats a 24mm final lift height. 3) Demonstrate 8-10 ball in transit through the linked ramps. 4) Achieve a ball roll away with the lifted linked ramps. This is the first REAL proof of OU! This may seem a difficult task, but it can be done! You will need to develope good skills in ramp adjustemnts and ramp linking. After a while, you will develop a sixth sense of how to adjust your ramps. You will KNOW what will happen if you do this or that. Meanwhile, theory guys (and gals), if you don't build ramps, think about how to explain this. Its real, its on the net and it needs to be explained. As we are now moving into real interesting territory now, I ask ALL of you (Builders and Thinkers) to be as open as I have been with you. If you REALLY want to change the world, we ALL must be a part of this. And as to you fence sitters, START BUILDING! As I have been asked by many .... many people for kits, I have done some checking and have come up with the following : SMOT PHASE 2 kit 4 x SMOT ramps, including ALL components and a manual! 4 x Base assy, 16 x Straignt pins, 4 x Polished Alum "U" channels, 8 x 12mm Steel balls, 8 x Magnet arrays, 1 x Instruction manual, 1 x Signed Certificate of Authenticity and a picture of me with the linked ramps. Air mailed to anywhere on the planet. Cost : $110 US (Money orders please) To : Greg Watson, 8 Brabham Grove, Aberfoyle Park, 5159, South Australia, Australia. Your SMOT ramp kit will be posted with-in 24 hours of receiving your money. 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1997 14:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:59:34 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970528175632_-730957027@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, harti@bbtt.de Subject: LINKED SMOTs : TEST PASSED Resent-Message-ID: <"lV0EZ1.0.DS5.0hAZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3404 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have tested SUCCESSFULLY two linked SMOTs, its work very well but the adjustement must be very accurate. The disruption gap between the magnetic potential ( in the null zone ) and the potential energy of gravity for regauging the system ( T.Bearden theory) must be adjusted precisely. ( look at my picture ) As said Grag Watson : " The height of the magnets MUST be less than the lift otherwise you will not be able to get the ramps to link. " I have linked two SMOTs ( V 1.02 ) devices, each SMOT is composed of : - 2 Magnetic RAMPS : Each ramp : 15 magnets in 3 layers of 5 magnets, Ceramic Magnets( ferrite ) : 25 x 40 x 10 mm A wide steel backing : 25 x 200 x 4 mm 25 mm steel ball 20 x 20 mm aluminum U channel Plywood and cardboard for the base Magnetic ramps spec : Input gauge : 70 mm Output gauge : 58 mm Height of slope : 25 mm Length : 90 mm (slope) + 20 mm ( entrance ) You will find all pictures and videos in my web site at : http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/s102jln.htm We are on the way of Overunity..... SMOTy yours, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 16:26:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA21920; Wed, 28 May 1997 16:25:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:25:14 -0700 Message-ID: <338CBE6C.5DC8@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 08:53:24 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: straight SMOT ramps OU? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a4Oec.0.CM5.OxBZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3410 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Vorts - > > Wow man, like, I just had a *heavy* SMOT flash... > > You have one straight ramp. Ball drops out to the starting level, but > sticks back against the drop rail with a certain amount of force at an > obviously lower magnetic potential than at the start. We are not very > impressed. You link two ramps. Ball ends up stuck at the end with the same > amount of force. Link three, then four ramps. Ball ends up stuck at the end > with the same amount of force. Oh! I see now - you could just keep on > linking and linking, and the ball sticks back with the *same* amount of > force at the final ramp - no matter how many ramps there are! Oh, I'm sure > there's a tiny cumulative effect for a force increase from more ramps > behind it, Not that I have seen, > but... If it were a no-win game, you'd have 4 times the force > after 4 ramps. But no matter how much friction and eddy currents and air > resistance is met, clackity clack, ramp after ramp, many feet away, you end > up with essentially the same back force. At some point, that back force > obviously isn't enough to account for all the energy spent getting the ball > to that point through all the ramps and losses. One ramp, maybe not. But > several... > > If you can link ramps (I saw Ben Tammetta's AVI - nice job, Ben), and the > back force at the end doesn't grow substantially with each ramp, (and the > magnets don't die), then Greg's gizmo *has* to be OU! > > Everybody knew this already, right? > > - 99th Monkey, > Honolulu HI Hi Rick, Its good when the light turns on. Good BUILDING and TESTING to you. Awaiting your SMOT Phase 2 results. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 16:35:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA23689; Wed, 28 May 1997 16:31:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:31:34 -0700 Message-ID: <338CBFE9.C00@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 08:59:45 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT QField Sims References: <199705281610.JAA01538@norway.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cM3Tt1.0.sn5.K1CZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3411 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > Yes I agree that you spent a LOT of time and energy on the SMOT design to > make it work and then to make it easy for duplication by others. We all > thank you for sharing this information. As people successfully duplicate the > closing the loop SMOT, maybe then we figure out how to power homes with this > technology. > > The Qfield simms are a great way to explain what is happening and maybe even > answer where the energy is coming from. Any info on the return fields and > why they flow in the opposite direction? Its what magnets do. The flux returns to the other pole. > Did you ever do a sim with the ball hitting the null field at the start and > end of the ramp? I would be interested in seeing them. Will do a series and post to the web sites. > Thanks again, > Michael Hi Michael, Remember in looking at the sims that a quick mag field drop off is to the ball, like hitting a brick wall. Part of the SMOT secret is the way the entry field strength increase is very sharp and the exit is very smooth and slow. Hard entry, soft exit. Best Regards and good testing, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 16:38:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA25591; Wed, 28 May 1997 16:36:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:36:28 -0700 Message-ID: <338CC10D.22E@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 09:04:37 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OU "toy" References: <199705281924_MC2-1775-50E5@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ownuv.0.gF6.w5CZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3412 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nicholas Palmer wrote: > > Hi Greg, just to let you know I'm following the excitement on Vortex. I am > asking around for British suppliers of suitable magnets and, if they can be > found, then I will attempt a replication. > BTW, I cannot seem to see the embedded GIFS etc in your messages - > they just stay in ASCII characters - I have tried reading the messages with > Netscape 2.0 and Wincim 3.0 - any suggestions? I assume they are similar to > those on Jean Louis' site? (which I have seen) > > Nick - Group Coordinator, Jersey FoE Hi Nick, I use Netscape 3.0 Gold and Win95. I don't use Mine. The gifs and Jpes are sent as attachments. More than that I can't say. Anyone else out there that can help??? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 18:09:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA12719; Wed, 28 May 1997 18:06:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:06:48 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705290106.VAA01876@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Direct energy transfer with SMOT To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:06:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"2u2FK1.0.B63.bQDZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3413 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey, if you linked hundreds of thousends of these together and made a chain around the world, and linked the end to the start, that would be a direct OU device. It would run around the planet forever. In that case, I would say it was powered by the gravity of the earth, though I'm not sure how. Would a SMOT run in space? Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 18:17:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA16432; Wed, 28 May 1997 18:16:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:16:26 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC6B92.E74B4BC0@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Cc: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: OU "toy" (about encoded files) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:07:44 -0700 Encoding: 46 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"QpQzF2.0.U04.cZDZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3414 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For encoded files that don't get decoded automatically, I use WINCODE, which will encode/decode lots of stuff. It's a Windows program, hope that works for you. I looked it up at http://WWW.shareware.com/ and came up with the following FTP address for the file: ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/win3/encode/wc273r16.zip Dan Quickert dequickert@ucdavis.edu 916-756-0575 >---------- >From: Greg Watson >Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 1997 4:34 PM >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: OU "toy" > >Nicholas Palmer wrote: >> >> Hi Greg, just to let you know I'm following the excitement on Vortex. I am >> asking around for British suppliers of suitable magnets and, if they can be >> found, then I will attempt a replication. >> BTW, I cannot seem to see the embedded GIFS etc in your messages - >> they just stay in ASCII characters - I have tried reading the messages with >> Netscape 2.0 and Wincim 3.0 - any suggestions? I assume they are similar to >> those on Jean Louis' site? (which I have seen) >> >> Nick - Group Coordinator, Jersey FoE > >Hi Nick, > >I use Netscape 3.0 Gold and Win95. I don't use Mine. The gifs and Jpes >are sent as attachments. More than that I can't say. Anyone else out >there that can help??? > > >Best Regards, > Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 18:41:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA27063; Wed, 28 May 1997 18:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:40:03 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970528213709_1107782466@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: BULLETIN !!! BULLETIN!!! IT WORKS OTHER WAYS ALSO!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"flcBC1.0.mc6.mvDZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3416 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, You are not going to believe what I am about to tell you! I was thinking about how long it would take me to round up all the parts for your fixture, and then I saw on the list the mention of the kit. Well I got to thinking how long It would take in the mail and I am the kind of person who likes to do things now or sooner. I got to looking in my " junk box" from old experments, and found two one inch long by 7/ 8 " diameter, neodymium-iron-boron magnets that I had use to play with about a year ago to see if the magnetic switches I had read about, worked. I had two soft steel bars 2 and one half inches long by one half inch thick by one inch wide. I put the magnet on the back of one of the one inch wide sides at the middle of the bars length. I did the same with the other bar. Then I placed the two on my table in a v shape as you do. Then I got a one and one half inch steel ball I had given to my daughter I found in a machine shop years ago, and put it in the center groove of a plastic foot ruler my daughter had. I put the ruller between the two bars and elevated the end one eight inch above the table top. I checked the ramp without the magnets to make sure the ball rolled down to prove it was a slope. It rolled down very fast. I then put the magnets back with nothing holding them in place, just their weight holding them down. I rolled the magnet up the ramp to about one half inch from the v and when I felt the slighest pull from the bars I let it go. The first time it stoped at the end of the magnets and I noticed that the end of the ruler was past the magnets. I moved it to just past the end of the magnets and the second time it rolled up the ramp from a dead stop to the end of the ruller and fell off !!! I want to put a video on the net and pictures of it. How do I go about it ? I have never done any of that before. It works every time and I want to show every one another way of doing what you have discovered. I am so excited I can hardly type, this is more fun than I've had in years! How do I get It on the net in video? Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 18:55:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA26497; Wed, 28 May 1997 18:54:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:54:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970528185421.00ad62b4@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:54:22 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: t Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_DaxM1.0.wT6.27EZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3417 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: t From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 19:26:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA32288; Wed, 28 May 1997 19:25:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 19:25:06 -0700 Message-ID: <338CE887.58FA@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 11:53:03 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Kits, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"y927K1.0.Iu7.0aEZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3419 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Sorry for the confusion. I am too used to dealing in US Dollars. The pricing is $150 Aust Dollars via an International Bank Cheque. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 19:30:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA04154; Wed, 28 May 1997 19:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 19:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:28:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: "Science wig. sig." cc: science Subject: Re: Direct energy transfer with SMOT In-Reply-To: <199705290106.VAA01876@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"aQYDd1.0.k01.YYEZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3418 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 28 May 1997, Science wig. sig. wrote: > > Hey, if you linked hundreds of thousends of these together and made a chain > around the world, and linked the end to the start, that would be a direct > OU device. It would run around the planet forever. In that case, I would > say it was powered by the gravity of the earth, though I'm not sure how. > Would a SMOT run in space? <--duh yep! > Andrew > > When it comes by here (Denver) I could put a note on it to you and you could get it when it passes by -eh? (smiles) like the note on the pigeon leg sans the pigeon / food /& coops/cages.... (still smiling).. -- i'm going on to the Rotary loop to power my bike, then to the back yard power the house version.. -- :) se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 20:09:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA09826; Wed, 28 May 1997 20:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:01:32 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 23:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970528230001_336934004@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: correction on ball dia. Resent-Message-ID: <"XzDyj3.0.PP2.86FZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3420 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, Steel ball dia. is 1 and 1/4 " not 1 and 1/2", I was very excited, sorry. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 21:33:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA23159; Wed, 28 May 1997 21:32:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:32:40 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 22:38:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: correction on ball dia. MINE WORKS In-Reply-To: <970528230001_336934004@emout15.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"rxWKQ3.0.hf5.cRGZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3421 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 28 May 1997 HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > Greg, > Steel ball dia. is 1 and 1/4 " not 1 and 1/2", I was very excited, sorry. > Butch > Finally got enough little magnets - COUNT ME IN on WORKING SMOT1! - I only have 3 Balls :) and some Buckshot and BB's :( laying around. ALL THREE BALLS WORK 18mm/20mm(mouse type ball)/25mm. or in decimal/US 3/4"/ 7/8" /15/16"(auto wheel bearing). They ALL Accelerate and jump! out of the raised end,.. to which my wife said the same thing as Gregs' wife " well, of course the do silly." I don't think she grasps just how much FASTER the EXIT (zoom) is to the INPUT (null) and its implications.... THIS IS GREAT GOING ON TO SMOT2! -------------------------- Oh, while waiting on exact parts (and I'm glad Greg is selling kits! WE ALL HIM ANYWAY HERE -eh?), I wanted to let some of you know that the RADIO SHACK part #64-1879 'Choke magnets' WORK OK! Rather than the 'V' entry exit, I set the side metal bars parallel and STACKED as someone mentioned earlier today. 1-2-3-4 DEEP (per side) North on one side SOUTH on the other.. noted N/N or S/S not near as FORCEFUL(zoomable)... Looking forward to CLOSE the LOOP... wish original plans were BIGGER though. This will make one hell of a MUFFLED RAIL GUN!!! I hope all this international "Brain-Power" can get us a Rotory-in-a-can so i can take it up camping. se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 00:01:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA19915; Wed, 28 May 1997 00:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 00:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:01:53 +0300 (EET DST) From: Mika Letonsaari To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT - rationale In-Reply-To: <199705280641.XAA04110@ganymede.compumedia.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"OkTc02.0._s4.5XzYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3388 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 27 May 1997, Scott Becker wrote: > Mika, > > I don't think you quite understand the claim. The entrance of the > linked ramps are all at the same elevation, they do not go successively > higher. This may sound less impressive but if you put a hundred ramps > together then the little ball will get pulled out of your fingers and > travel 20 meters with no power! ( Of course the forth coming curved > ramps will be more to the point. ) Ok. Sorry. But now it sounds far more realistic and I'm building one too... -------------------------------------------- Mika Letonsaari, mletonsa@cc.hut.fi, tel. (09) 468 2583 Student of Engineering Physics at Helsinki University of Technology "All science is either physics or stamp collecting." - Ernest Rutherford -------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 01:31:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA04801; Tue, 27 May 1997 22:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970527202709.00ad6b18@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:27:10 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: SMOT Phase 1, 2 & 3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Cq0Gy1.0.h81.KcxYp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3381 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For the record: I had success going all the way to phase #3 (Please don't ask me to reveal the details of #2 and #3, that would upset Greg's plan) I am using NdFeB grade-39 magnets, glass V channel and glass ball filled with iron powder all mounted on a plexiglass base. In phase #1 the SMOT ramp works every time and provides over 2inches of lift on a 1" (25mm) ball In Phase #2 the ramps (4pcs) link reliably and allow the ball to traverse all of them without slowing In Phase #3 a new construction of the ramp is used, but it still behaves like the ramp from phase #1 (ie. reliable lift & exit). The tuning experience gained in #1 is vital in adjusting the new ramp. I am only guessing that Greg will call this Phase #3 In Phase #4 the new ramps (4pcs) are joined and the loop is supposed to be closed. I was not successful at this step (probably engineering problems), I am getting partial success though. Note: I am not following Greg's directions at this point. The idea to link 4 ramps from Phase #2 at 90 degree angle does not work. I tried it, Greg tried it and we came to a conclusion that the ball has to move away from the ramp in the 3rd dimension (up/down) not sideways but parallel to the ramp's length. In order to link the 4 ramps into a loop you will have to wait for the secret in Phase #3 & #4. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 05:37:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA11061; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:36:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:36:51 -0700 Message-ID: <338C1BA3.55A9@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:18:51 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 2 ramp SMOT works...webpage References: <19970528050603235.AAA323@jumanji> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Or0Op1.0.ki2.YR2Zp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3390 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ben Tammetta wrote: > > Greg what's next? > Can I make a curved one now :) > > Ben Hi Ben, Great work. I have downloaded all your images. I would suggest you link 2 more ramps. The middle two then have to work with mag fields on each end. When you get 4 linked, try the party trick and see how many ball you can get in transit at one time. I could get 8 to 10 balls going at once. It really looks great. Then try lifting each succeding ramp by a few mm until you can get the final lift twice the first lift. When you get there, I will show you how to get a roll away! Best Regards and congrats on the results, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 05:39:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA19645; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338C2153.2155@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:43:07 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 3 or 4 ramps head to tail? References: <970527201835_72240.1256_EHB53-2@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OlhW81.0.ro4.HS2Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3391 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > To: Vortex > > John Logajan, who has taken to signing his messages twice -- John Logajan, who > has taken to signing his messages twice, says: > > And speaking of ramps in a series -- again there is the potential for > illusion, since the ramps are all adjusted by "feel", one might > unintentionally get the ball to move through all four ramps by making > each ramp magnetic field stronger than the previous one. Once adjusted for linked operation, the individual ramps can be swapped around. The field at the top of the last ramp is the same as that at the top of the first. There is no creeping field increase here. > Good point! > > Greg: > > Is there any reason why four ramps cannot be arranged head to tail, in a loop? > Does the ball object to turning 90 degrees after it falls? Would it jump out > of the second ramp, and if so, couldn't you prevent this with some kind of cup > to catch it? The ball must stay on the "Neutral line" between the magnet arrays. Some slight angular linking is possible, but I have found that the best I could get is around 7-8 deg. > For that matter, you might arrange three ramps in a triangle, instead of four > in a square. Wish it were that easy. > If you, or anyone else trying this experiment, can close the loop with three > or four ramps please do so as soon as possible. This is the acid test. The loop will close. > If the ball does not want to take a sharp turn between ramps, I suppose you > will need five or six to make a circle. Still much too sharp. > I do not think that we can be so sure > about Logajan's earlier statement that a "J" shaped return could make the ball > go back to the beginning with only one ramp. It seems to me the magnets above > might prevent it from rolling back. A series of ramps seems like a fairer > test. > > The descriptions, schematics, photographs and parts lists have been most > helpful. This already takes the prize for the most open, understated, and > apparently sane o-u magnetic motor project in history. It is also one of the > best cooperative efforts I have seen, reminiscent of the early days in > microcomputers. It is a shame CF is so hard to do. However, speaking of > history, I believe I have seen schematics for similar magnet-ramp-and-hole > gadgets in articles about perpetual motion machines. I recall one in the > Scientific American. In other words, people have tried similar approaches many > times, with no success. But you never know. Perhaps they never tried this > particular design. A slight change can make a world of difference in > technology. 99.999% of the time a slight change has a deleterious effect. > Years ago this was demonstrated at Intel when the workers ran frozen pizzas > through the chip fabrication ovens during slack hours. No kidding! Their > clean-room standards were tightened up since then, but several orders of > magnitude, I bet. As far as I know, my SMOT ramp design and linking system is unique. The design looks simple, but its not. There has been much work done on controlling the mag field under the ramp and the exit characteristics. Very small changes will stop the devices operation. But once adjusted, the operation is very soild! > - Jed Hi Jed, Hang in there. Four Linked ramps with 8-10 balls rolling up and down is really an eye opener. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 05:39:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA19661; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338C1EAD.4878@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:31:49 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: There are NO stupid questions (?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"97wo51.0.Vo4.9S2Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3389 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve Ekwall wrote: > > On Tue, 27 May 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > > > > And for the BUILD phase... > > > I have earlyer already 2 models made, one with round alnico-5 magnets > > > and one with 50x19x5 magnets (Both a succes for a SINGLE model). > > > The problem is that I really need the 13x10x5 magnets and I can't find > > > them anywhere yet. > > > Here comes my problem: In ALL the models I have made and seen, the > > > exit point is just before the start of the last magnet. > Hopefully there are no stupid questions, but even my wife is excited about > building one of these smot1 'toys' QUESTION: are these "bar magnets" like > a tootsie roll shape OR Flat and Stacked "Disk (ceramic style)" stack.. > Question arises as I SEE "BarS" stack nsnsnsn but NO "North/ South" as in > jnaudin pics. My wife says you mean "Flat Round" coin shaped magnets. > Of course she's a Chemist(!) so what does she know. Oddly we can both > make your mm x mm x mm demensions fit our agrument! :) > Thanks ( one of us will take the other out to dinner :) we both win! > se > > ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ > -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 Hi Steve, The magnets are rectangular blocks. Mine are 4x10x13mm, magnetised through the 4mm thickness. One array has the N pole facing into the ramp and the other array has the S pole facing into the ramp. Hope this helps, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 05:39:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA11994; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:38:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:38:40 -0700 From: M2Milly@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:38:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970528083803_-162445556@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HOW TO GO FASTER THEN LIGHT-stuff Resent-Message-ID: <"C3JCX.0.Ex2.ET2Zp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3392 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 97-05-28: << File: ATTRIBS.BND (2668 bytes) DL Time (28800 bps): < 1 minute ...... it has been conclusively proven that stuffing ten Blue Chip Stamps in a parking meter will freeze time forever. JD>> Beyond Packed Attributes????? OK where is the rest of your story??? You may enjoy some of the research below FOR MAGNETS SEE #6 ETHERIAL ELECTROGRAVITICS by Bill Hamilton 1. MODERN ETHER DRIFT EXPERIMENT A. Brillet and J.L. Hall conducted a modern ether drift experiment in 1979. Brillet and Hall put a laser on a rotating platform and split the beam. One part of the beam went into a Fabry-Perot interferometer, the other was directed via mirrors off the platform to be compared with a reference beam from a stationary laser. The frequency of the rotating laser was compared with that of the reference laser; the difference was Fourier analyzed. Any anisotropy of the speed of light would show up as a frequency shift which varied dependent on the direction of the interferometer. If the old pre-Lorentz ether theory were true (static ether), they would have found a frequency shift dependent on sidereal direction of the interferometer and found no such effect. They also found a frequency shift of 17 Hz at twice the table rotation rate, which they could not explain on direction of interferometer with respect to the lab. It is this effect which is predicted by an entrained ether theory. ***An entrained ether theory favors a dynamic ether, an ether that can be entrained in motion by a rotating object, such as earth, embedded within the dynamic ether.*** 2. ETHER EXPLANATIONS If a velocity-dependent medium such as the ether could be established by experiment, then it could open the door to alternative explanations to SR and GR regarding physical phenomena. If this ether is quantized, then we could explore the theoretical nature of a quantum ether. Is gravity a result of some state of the quantum ether? ***Does the quantum ether explain inertia?*** What does an electric ormagnetic field do to the state of the quantum ether? Are material particles some wave-state of the quantum ether? Can we unify physical principles by considering a quantum ether? 3. EXPERIMENTING WITH LIGHT A test of light speed could be made if some object holding a measuring device could accelerate to some sizable fraction of light speed, say .5c, and test the speed of an electromagnetic emission from this object through space to a reflection point and back to the object from the reference frame of the moving object. Also, Bryan Wallace delivered a paper on the 1961 measurements of the distance of Venus using radar. Wallace claims that the inconsistencies in the measurements are not supportive of SR, but ***support a C+v velocity for the radar signal.*** Perhaps a review of this data, and further refined experiments could determine if the data is consistent with SR or Galilean addition of velocities. 4. SPACE DRIVES Why is it important to determine the nature of the ether of space and time? One obvious answer is to determine whether we could find new ways to travel through space or time. ****The most common solution offered in the past has been to use hyperspatial dimensions to cross enormous distances that separate stellar systems.**** While it is true that space could harbor more than three dimensions, and time could be enfolded from greater than one dimension, the energy dimensions of ether have yet to be explored. NASA is now interested in breakthrough physics, on new solutions to space travel, on dispensing with rocket propellants ****and finding new sources of energy, and on theoretical means for breaking the light barrier.**** ****If the light barrier can be broken by some sort of inertial drive, a drive that changes the resistance of the ether, reducing that resistance in a forward direction, then the velocity of an object may, indeed, exceed the measured velocity of light.***** In actual fact, if the properties of weight and mass can be nullified by application of electromagnetic forces to the ether in the vicinity of our test object, the object may be propelled without inertial lag and "g" forces to reach incredible speeds with the slightest expenditure of energy. 5. EXPERIMENTS IN ELECTROGRAVITICS According to the Air Force Manual from Wright-Patterson AFB on Electrogravitics we have this description on the Thomas Townsend Brown discovery. Electrogravitics might be described as a synthesis of electrostatic energy used for propulsion - either vertical propulsion or horizontal or both - and gravitics, or dynamic counterbary, in which energy is also used to set up a local gravitational force independent of the earth's. Electrostatic energy for propulsion has been predicted as a possible means of propulsion in space when the thrust from a neutron motor or ion motor would be sufficient in a dragless environment to produce astronomical velocities. But the ion motor is not strictly a part of the science of electrogravitics, since barycentric control in an electrogravitics system is envisaged for a vehicle operating within the earth's environment and it is not seen initially for space application. Probably large scale space operations would have to await the full development of electrogravitics to enable large pieces of equipment to be moved out of the region of the earth's strongest gravity effects. So, though electrostatic motors were thought of in 1925, electrogravitics had its birth after the War, when Townsend Brown sought to improve on the various proposals that then existed for electrostatic motors sufficiently to produce some visible manifestation of sustained motion. Whereas earlier electrostatic tests were essentially pure research, Brown's rigs were aimed from the outset at producing a flying article. As a private venture he produced evidence of motion using condensers in a couple of saucers suspended by arms rotating round a central tower with input running down the arms. The massive-k situation was summarized subsequently in a report, Project Winterhaven, in 1952. Using the data some conclusions were arrived at that might be expected from ten or more years of intensive development - similar to that, for instance, applied to the turbine engine. Using a number of assumptions as to the nature of gravity, the report postulated a saucer as the basis of a possible interceptor with Mach 3 capability. Creation of a local gravitational system would confer upon the fighter the sharp-edged changes of direction typical of motion in space. The essence of electrogravitics thrust is the use of a very strong positive charge on one side of the vehicle and a negative on the other. The core of the motor is a condenser and the ability of the condenser to hold its charge (the k-number) is the yardstick of performance. With air as 1, current dielectrical materials can yield 6 and use of barium aluminate can raise this considerably, barium titanium oxide (a baked ceramic) can offer 6,000 and there is promise of 30,000, which would be sufficient for supersonic speed. The original Brown rig produced 30 fps on a voltage of around 50,000 and a small amount of current in the milliamp range. There was no detailed explanation of gravity in Project Winterhaven, but it was assumed that particle dualism in the subatomic structure of gravity would coincide in its effect with the issuing stream of electrons from the electrostatic energy source to produce counterbary. The Brown work probably remains a realistic approach to the practical realization of electrostatic propulsion and sustentation. Whatever may be discovered by the Gravity Research Foundation of New Boston a complete understanding and synthetic reproduction of gravity is not essential for limited success. The electrogravitics saucer can perform the function of a classic lifting surface - it produces a pushing effect on the under surface and a suction effect on the upper, but, unlike the airfoil, it does not require a flow of air to produce the effect. 6. AN EXPERIMENT IN MAGNETOGRAVITICS The limitation in potential difference achieved by the Brown apparatus has led some of us involved in gravity research to consider the use of magnets and magnetic fields. The basis of this concept in magnetogravitics is the MHD generator. If a hot gas is seeded with certain elements and the gas is totally ionized this will produce a plasma in which all nucleons and electrons are disassociated in a hydrodynamic mixture. This charged or stratified charged mixture is confined to a volume of space by bottling it inside a magnetic field. Varying magnetic fields are also used to deflect cathode rays in television tubes or particle acclerators. By confining the charges in a magnetic bottle very high potentials can develop without dielectric breakdown. Much is known concerning magnetic flux rotation through conductors or conduction currents confined by magnetic fields, but little is known about interacting magnetic fields. An experiment now being assembled tests the hypothesis that a homopolar generator, a generator consisting of a coupled conducting disk and magnet that co-rotates with the armature. Usually such an apparatus is tapped for high amperage currents. In my proposal the homopolar generator rotates within a time-varying magnetic field to increase the potential difference across the radius of the disk, maintaining this potential by magnetic confinement of rim charge. A conducting disk of Alnico with a slightly raised center would be an ideal armature as it should act as a one-piece homopolar generator. In previous measurements of spinning homopolar disks, the center becomes strongly positive and the rim of the disk, negative. This could be considered an open Brown capacitor that should exhibit an electrogravity effect. It is also proposed that measurements should be taken similar to the measurements taken in the Finnish superconductor weight-reduction experiments. 7. FUTURE DIRECTIONS In effect, electrogravitic or magnetogravitic propulsion if successfully developed would lead to a novel form of asymmetric thrust that could be adapted to ground, air, and space transport systems. Such devices could be energized using fuel cells or possibly so-called cold fusion cells and revolutionize our entire systems of transportation. Beyond this we must find means to extend our exploration of space. Bill Hamilton Executive Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable." MjMichael FutrTools Crosspollination seeds the universe of the mind. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 05:42:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA20122; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:41:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:41:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705281242.IAA01902@ns.bluegrass.net> From: "SAM GORDON" To: Subject: Re: This SMOT thing works!! Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:42:12 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"c1p2-3.0.Dw4.UV2Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3393 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- >> At 10:32 PM 5/26/97 -0700, you wrote: > > > >The hacksaw blade is made out of a very hard steel that is NOT very soft > >magnetically (low permeability). The hacksaw blade is not a good > >substitute for a strip of a real soft steel. > > > >BTW: The bearing ball is also made out of a very hard alloy and its > >permeability is not as high as iron or soft steel. > > > > > >At 06:13 PM 5/26/97 -0400, you wrote: > > I couldn't find any small refrig magnets > >>so I used 16 round 11mm x 4mm > >>ceramic mags i had here, That I glued on a piece of hacksaw blade which is > >>10mm wide x 1.5 or 2mm thick I managed to get the steel ball to roll up the > >>ramp 8 mm higher > > > > > > > I didn't realize this post would cause problems, I used the above only for a temporary trial, all sources where closed on memmorial day. I'm now gathering the items to make a proper smot. But you know, the thing still worked with the wrong stuff. But it may not work for the multi ramp phase so I plan on making the ramp as per Greg's design. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 05:51:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA21627; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Comments: Authenticated sender is From: ben@clubelite.com (Ben Tammetta) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:46:27 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: 2 ramp SMOT works...webpage Reply-to: tammetta@mindspring.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199705280634.XAA23313@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Message-ID: <19970528125732353.AAA107@jumanji> Resent-Message-ID: <"sOKUc1.0.kH5.ne2Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3394 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Michael, > Michael Randall > > BTW, what type of straight pins did you use to hold the mag assy in place. Push pins,/ Thumb tacts, used for putting infomation on cork boards. They go through a layer of cardboard and into plywood. > > > > The images and AVI's are here so you can see how big they are. > > > >http:/oscar.clubelite.com:8888/smot ###################### # Ben Tammetta # # ben@clubelite.com # ###################### From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 08:41:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA17412; Wed, 28 May 1997 08:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338C5F3D.574A@cmet.net> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 12:37:17 -0400 From: ce3cwf = felix meyer Reply-To: ce3cwf@cmet.net Organization: CE3CWF X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT : the SECRET to close loop Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AAESb1.0.lF4.t65Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3395 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How to close the loop ===================== With interest I am watching the SMOT project of Greg Watson. If you want to close the loop you have to modify the output side of the Mag Field. Bend it roughly 90 deg to both sides and you will be able to close the loop. Dont work linear, think 3 dimensional. I think Greg will explain in Phase 4 how to adjust the magnets. It works great ! Felix -- mailto:ce3cwf@cmet.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 10:23:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA04734 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 28 May 1997 10:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:23:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: Puthoff@aol.com Wed May 28 10:23:27 1997 Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com (emout16.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.42]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA04677; Wed, 28 May 1997 10:23:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Puthoff@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA19576; Wed, 28 May 1997 13:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970528132211_-1999881547@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic OU: Discussion X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 5/23/97 9:16:05 AM, Greg Watson asked for clarification of what I wrote: Hal: << Magnetic field energy is decreased as object moves into and quenches part of the field distribution; >> Greg: <> Actually, it is the opposite. When the domains align, the little, say, south poles are attracted to the external applied, say, north pole, and the little north poles are repelled. Therefore, the alignment of domains within the material serve to cancel out (weaken) locally the magnetic field that would have otherwise been there. The overall result is that the field energy has been reduced, this energy now going into moving the ball; i.e., field energy is transformed into kinetic energy. Hal From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 11:01:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA10769; Wed, 28 May 1997 10:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338C713B.68D4@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 19:54:03 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ben@clubelite.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 2 ramp SMOT works...webpage References: <19970528050603235.AAA323@jumanji> <338C685C.2741@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"u6wA_.0.9e2.d77Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3396 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ben Tammetta wrote: > > Ben's SMOT Page > Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy > > I'll put more details here soon, but, I thought many of you would > like for me to quickly make some pictures and AVI's available to > you. They are not the best quality and black and white, but it's > something. > > The images and AVI's are here so you can see how big they are. > > http://oscar.clubelite.com:8888/smot > if that doesn't work > http://205.152.8.132:8888/smot > http:/205.152.8.132:8888/smot/images > > > Ben > ben@clubelite.com > > ###################### > # Ben Tammetta # > # ben@clubelite.com # > ###################### Hi Ben, Great, Great, Great work !!! I have made a 'Link-to' page on my homepage where all the 'SMOT' type hompages are. ( i hope there are soon comming more. ) Can you immagine that i'm desperate waiting for my magnets... :-( P.S.: Why are youre AVI's in Hi quality and your photo's not so ? (Could you not 'photo video' the shots, and save them as stills ? ) -- Anyway Great ! Ronald. Homepage HTTP://www.worldonline.nl/~catware From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 11:18:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA18939; Wed, 28 May 1997 11:10:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:10:26 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:10:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: albec.net.mx: [207.3.135.31] didn't use HELO protocol Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970528122209.277f49f8@albec.net.mx> X-Sender: pascalin@albec.net.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: Arturo Pascalin Subject: flexible strip magnet Resent-Message-ID: <"etGne2.0.qd4.GK7Zp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3397 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello: I'm new to the list and at first I didnt understand what was going on, but Im starting to catch up. I want to try to build a smot for myself, but I have a question... I found a flexible strip magnet of 9.5 x 3.0 mm section and can be cut to any length. It cost only 10 pesos (1.25 USD)/meter in the local hardware store. Can this be use to build the smot? Thanks ____ _ __ | _ \ __ _ ___ ___ __ _| /_/_ __ | |_) / _` / __|/ __/ _` | | | '_ \ | __/ (_| \__ \ (_| (_| | | | | | | |_| \__,_|___/\___\__,_|_|_|_| |_| Arturo Pascalin < http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2508 > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 11:37:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA15718; Wed, 28 May 1997 11:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:31:57 +0200 Message-Id: <199705281831.UAA16287@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@shell2.ba.best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Intel bugs.. :) Resent-Message-ID: <"9imKl.0.Sr3.sb7Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3398 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Jed Rothwell wrote: >> A slight change can make a world of difference in > technology. 99.999% of the time a slight change has a deleterious effect. > Years ago this was demonstrated at Intel when the workers ran frozen pizzas > through the chip fabrication ovens during slack hours. No kidding! Their > clean-room standards were tightened up since then, but several orders of > magnitude, I bet. Now I know, why Intel chips seems to come with a few bugs every year ! :) Just kidding ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 12:05:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA21858; Wed, 28 May 1997 12:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 12:02:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970528122209.277f49f8@albec.net.mx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:58:21 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: flexible strip magnet Resent-Message-ID: <"h2cLT.0.RL5.558Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3399 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Arturo - > I found a flexible strip magnet [...] > Can this be use to build the smot? NO! Mixed polarity on the same face makes these unusable. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 13:39:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA07683; Wed, 28 May 1997 13:36:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:36:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970528133543.00ad2a1c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:35:45 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: 2 ramp SMOT + wedge Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Wx9Wy3.0.yt1.2T9Zp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3400 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ben, I have seen you video and noticed that you do not use a wedge between the 1st and 2nd ramp. I use a small wedge to transform the vertical fall from the 1st ramp to a horizontal movement in the 2nd ramp. Without the wedge quite a lot of energy is wasted when the ball hits the U channel of the 2nd ramp after it exits and falls from the 1st ramp. I am using thick glass for the wedge since it is nonferromagnetic, hard and doesn't dampen the fall like a soft aluminum does. At 12:55 PM 5/28/97 +0000, you wrote: >From my webpage... > >Ben's SMOT Page >Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy > > I'll put more details here soon, but, I thought many of you would > like for me to quickly make some pictures and AVI's available to > you. They are not the best quality and black and white, but it's > something. > > Bottom Line: > Two level SMOT ramps are linked together and working. > > The steel ball starts at the bottom of ramp 1 and continues past > the end of ramp 2. The Steel ball starts by rolling up a ramp and > end up 25mm higher, drops 25mm and does it again. (With nothing > but Permanet magnets to move it.) > > KEY POINTS: > > The ramps are on a faily level surface (my desk) > both ramp entrance channels bottoms are flush against the > desk Both ramp exit channel bottoms are 25mm above the > surface of the desk > > PARTS: > > 19mm ball from a PC Mouse, 12mm aluminum channel > magnets: ~4x19x25mm ( Radio Shack) > arranged 5 long and 4 wide for each rail. with a 1/8x1" > (almost 4x24x235mm) wide steel backing. And thin plywood and > cardboard for the base. > > The images and AVI's are here so you can see how big they are. > >http:/oscar.clubelite.com:8888/smot >if that doesn't work >http://205.152.8.132:8888/smot >http:/205.152.8.132:8888/smot/images > >Greg what's next? >Can I make a curved one now :) > >Ben >ben@clubelite.com > > > > >###################### ># Ben Tammetta # ># ben@clubelite.com # >###################### > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 13:44:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA16122; Wed, 28 May 1997 13:42:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:42:30 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970528134250.00adbaec@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:42:52 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: flexible strip magnet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"k8UtY.0.px3.rY9Zp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3401 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: WARNING: The flexible strip magnets are TOTALLY unsuitable for Simple OU toy. They are polarized with south and north poles ON THE SAME SIDE. (ie. SNSNSNSNSNSN like this...). They are used to hold objects down and this pole configuration is much more efficient than one pole on one side and an opposite pole on another side of the strip. Many of the sheet magnets have up to 10 poles per square inch !!! The flexible magnets are also very weak. Compare in the chart below: Material Grade Demagnet Curie BH-Strength NdFeB g39 - 21,300 150 40 SmCo g26 - 10,000 300 26 AlNiCo g05 - 640 540 5.5 Ceramic g08 - 3,200 300 3.5 (BaFe2O3 or SrFe2O3) Flexible g01 - 1,300 100 0.6 Grade = Material quality grade (alloy type ie. ALNICO 5) Demagnet = Demagnetizing force in Oersteds Curie = Curie Temperature in Degrees Celsius BH-Strength = Maximum Energy Product in Mega Gauss Oersteds (MGO) The above clearly shows that AlNiCo is THE EASIEST to demagnetize. However AlNiCo has the highest Curie temperature of them all - 540degC. The Neodymium (NdFeB) magnets are the strongest (ie. they have the highest energy product). Flexible magnets are the weakest. At 01:10 PM 5/28/97 -0500, you wrote: >Hello: > >I'm new to the list and at first I didnt understand what was going on, >but Im starting to catch up. I want to try to build a smot for myself, >but I have a question... > >I found a flexible strip magnet of 9.5 x 3.0 mm section and can be cut >to any length. It cost only 10 pesos (1.25 USD)/meter in the local hardware >store. > >Can this be use to build the smot? > >Thanks > ____ _ __ >| _ \ __ _ ___ ___ __ _| /_/_ __ >| |_) / _` / __|/ __/ _` | | | '_ \ >| __/ (_| \__ \ (_| (_| | | | | | | >|_| \__,_|___/\___\__,_|_|_|_| |_| >Arturo Pascalin >< http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2508 > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 22:20:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA30543; Wed, 28 May 1997 22:19:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 22:19:25 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 01:18:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970529011843_-1431474431@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: LINKED SMOTs : TEST PASSED Resent-Message-ID: <"8PeMy1.0.5T7.S7HZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3422 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have tested SUCCESSFULLY two linked SMOTs, its work very well but the adjustement must be very accurate. The disruption gap between the magnetic potential ( in the null zone ) and the potential energy of gravity for regauging the system ( T.Bearden theory) must be adjusted precisely. ( look at my picture ) As said Grag Watson : " The height of the magnets MUST be less than the lift otherwise you will not be able to get the ramps to link. " I have linked two SMOTs ( V 1.02 ) devices, each SMOT is composed of : - 2 Magnetic RAMPS : Each ramp : 15 magnets in 3 layers of 5 magnets, Ceramic Magnets( ferrite ) : 25 x 40 x 10 mm A wide steel backing : 25 x 200 x 4 mm 25 mm steel ball 20 x 20 mm aluminum U channel Plywood and cardboard for the base Magnetic ramps spec : Input gauge : 70 mm Output gauge : 58 mm Height of slope : 25 mm Length : 90 mm (slope) + 20 mm ( entrance ) You will find all pictures and videos in my web site at : http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/s102jln.htm We are on the way of Overunity..... SMOTy yours, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 14:00:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA19443; Wed, 28 May 1997 13:56:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:56:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:02:32 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: tammetta@mindspring.com cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 1 ramp works, 2 don't, IT WORKS NOW! In-Reply-To: <19970528045437449.AAA344@jumanji> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"V_3la1.0.el4.9m9Zp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3402 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 28 May 1997, Ben Tammetta wrote: > > > I got all my parts today and spent a lot of time building and > > > playing with my SMOT. My parts match Gregs pretty closely. 12mm ***> > > ball, 12mm aluminum channel magnets: ~4x19x25mm ( RadioShack) > > > arranged 5 long and 4 wide for each rail. with a 1/8x1" (almost > > > 4x24mm) wide steel backing. And thin plywood and cardboard for Ben, are these the radio shack 4x19x25mm Magnets Radio Shack sells "with a little ~5mm hole in the center" (i think they are designed for 'chokes' in electrical circuts. IF THESE WORK, then I'll get 40 of them for the 4 (upcoming linkable ramps).. didn't know if they were 'strong' enough however, as I have some small 'bar/tube' magnetics that are MUCH stronger.. appears you got the radio shack "Chokers" working OK! do you have 12mm+/- rise(lift)>? Thanks se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 14:19:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA15531; Wed, 28 May 1997 14:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:21:40 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: tammetta@mindspring.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 2 ramp SMOT works...webpage In-Reply-To: <19970528050603235.AAA323@jumanji> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"A0yKm2.0.Zo3.b2AZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3403 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 28 May 1997, Ben Tammetta wrote: > PARTS: > > 19mm ball from a PC Mouse, 12mm aluminum channel > magnets: ~4x19x25mm ( Radio Shack) ---------> arranged 5 long and 4 wide for each rail. with a 1/8x1" > (almost 4x24x235mm) wide steel backing. And thin plywood and > cardboard for the base. well, i bought 40 Radio Shack mags, but are you saying 5x4="20" per side (or 40!per ramp)(?) so i'll/you will need 160 for 4 ramps.. BACK to the store (if so,) don't know if they had that many left in the box though (sigh).. :( ALSO, how do you get "4wide" 4*19mm or US decimal "'s = ~3" to fit on a 1" wide metal strap (overlapping and hanging over?). thanks se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 15:17:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA25352; Wed, 28 May 1997 15:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705282215.PAA25304@mx2.eskimo.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Ben Tammetta" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:13:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: 2 ramp SMOT works...webpage Reply-to: ben@tammetta.com Priority: normal References: <19970528050603235.AAA323@jumanji> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"ziAKS3.0.1C6.ZwAZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3405 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, > > PARTS: > > > > 19mm ball from a PC Mouse, 12mm aluminum channel > > magnets: ~4x19x25mm ( Radio Shack) > ---------> arranged 5 long and 4 wide for each rail. with a 1/8x1" > > (almost 4x24x235mm) wide steel backing. And thin plywood and > > cardboard for the base. > > well, i bought 40 Radio Shack mags, but are you saying 5x4="20" per > side (or 40!per ramp)(?) so i'll/you will need 160 for 4 ramps.. YES There a chance you can shorten it to 4x4. But i have not tried it. I'd play it safe and build a 5x4 one. > box though (sigh).. :( ALSO, how do you get "4wide" 4*19mm or US decimal > "'s = ~3" to fit on a 1" wide metal strap (overlapping and hanging over?). The magnets are in english units... I just measured it in mm's to make things easier. instead of 1/8"X3/4"X1". mm's scale much easier. I wish the US would get on the metric system. The magnets are laid down longwais.... not up and down. not 1" high... 3/4" high. or 19mm high... measure in mm's > thanks welcome Ben ############################ # Ben Tammetta # # ben@interactive.ibm.com # ############################ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 15:34:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA06660; Wed, 28 May 1997 15:32:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:32:33 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:38:32 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: Arturo Pascalin cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: flexible strip magnet In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970528122209.277f49f8@albec.net.mx> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"nuzUW1.0.yd1.0ABZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3406 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 28 May 1997, Arturo Pascalin wrote: > > I'm new to the list and at first I didnt understand what was going on, > but Im starting to catch up. I want to try to build a smot for myself, > but I have a question... > I found a flexible strip magnet of 9.5 x 3.0 mm section and can be cut > to any length. It cost only 10 pesos (1.25 USD)/meter in the local hardware > store. > Can this be use to build the smot? > Thanks > < http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2508 > Arturo, I don't think so, hopefully others will reply to you, but the group seems to say that the 'flexable 'strip' magnetics' are lined up molecularly end to end as in nsnsnsnsnsnsnsnsnsns ALL the way through the strip. SMOT1 needs the "WIDE FACE" facing the ball to be either North or South... if square or round or flat.. the N/S MUST face out to the ball track and not END to END! (hence the super-Glue or tape .. as they will try to 'jump around and realign. Radio Shack has small 'Choke' type magnets for $0.32 US each (appears to take 10 - 40 per section depending on who's setup you follow.. when in doubt ASK GREG: He's the general/LEADER.. (i'm using radio shack until i can get his spec'd mags.) ----------------- Imagine that the magnets are COINS, 'Heads'=North Polarity, while 'Tails'=South Polarity... the Coins(mags) will be glued/fastened ALL HEADS OUT on one(1) side of the ramp & ALL TAILS OUT facing on the other side, the ball flies up the middle BETWEEN the row of coins/MAGNETS. - + - + - + - + tails heads(+) o <----- BALL goes UP! se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 15:45:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA29080; Wed, 28 May 1997 15:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338CB2F4.3022@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:34:28 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: catware@worldonline.nl CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic OU: Discussion References: <970528132211_-1999881547@emout16.mail.aol.com> <338C8A42.2331@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wzl5t2.0.B67.UEBZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3407 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Puthoff@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/23/97 9:16:05 AM, Greg Watson asked for > clarification of what I wrote: > > Hal: << Magnetic field energy is decreased as object moves into > and quenches part of the field distribution; >> > > Greg: < If the object is a soft ferromagnetic material, the field energy > increases due to the additive action of the soft aligning domains > in the ferrite.>> > > Actually, it is the opposite. When the domains align, the little, > say, south poles are attracted to the external applied, say, north pole, > and the little north poles are repelled. Therefore, the alignment of > domains within the material serve to cancel out (weaken) locally the > magnetic field that would have otherwise been there. The overall result > is that the field energy has been reduced, this energy now going into > moving the ball; i.e., field energy is transformed into kinetic energy. > > Hal Hi Hal, My book 'repertorium der natuurkunde' says: "magnetic property of the matter. --------------------------------- In the general a magnetic field is affected through the presence of matter in it's field. This matter becomes more or less magnatized and the hereof propagating induction lines are add by the orginal field. With the most materials this influence comes down on a merely adding (paramagnetism) or weakening (diamagnetism) of the magnetic field. There are nevertheless some materials, the so called ferromagnetic materials, which when put in a magnetic field, this field localy considerable strengthen (amplifies)." This text is dutch orginal, so here is the orginal text also: "Magnetische eigenschappen van de materie: ------------------------------------------ in het algemeen wordt een magnetisch veld beinvloed door de aanwezigheid van materie in dit veld. Deze materie wordt meer of minder gemagnetiseerd en de hieruit voortspruitende inductielijnen voegen zich bij het oorspronkelijke veld. Bij de meeste stoffen komt deze beinvloeding neer op een slechts geringe versterking (paramagnetisme) of verzwakking (diamagnetisme) van het magnetische veld. Er zijn echter enkele stoffen, de zogenaamde ferromagnetische materialen die, in een magnetisch veld gebracht, dit veld plaatselijk aanzienlijk versterken." This is also confirmed by the Quickfield simulation gifs. P.S.: Sorry if this msg appears twice, my outbox did strange... -- Ronald. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 15:45:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA00160; Wed, 28 May 1997 15:44:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:44:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338C8A42.2331@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:40:50 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic OU: Discussion References: <970528132211_-1999881547@emout16.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Sbvcp.0.F2.eKBZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3408 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Puthoff@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/23/97 9:16:05 AM, Greg Watson asked for > clarification of what I wrote: > > Hal: << Magnetic field energy is decreased as object moves into > and quenches part of the field distribution; >> > > Greg: < If the object is a soft ferromagnetic material, the field energy > increases due to the additive action of the soft aligning domains > in the ferrite.>> > > Actually, it is the opposite. When the domains align, the little, > say, south poles are attracted to the external applied, say, north pole, > and the little north poles are repelled. Therefore, the alignment of > domains within the material serve to cancel out (weaken) locally the > magnetic field that would have otherwise been there. The overall result > is that the field energy has been reduced, this energy now going into > moving the ball; i.e., field energy is transformed into kinetic energy. > > Hal Hi Hal, My book 'repertorium der natuurkunde' says: "magnetic property of the matter. --------------------------------- In the general a magnetic field is affected through the presence of matter in it's field. This matter becomes more or less magnatized and the hereof propagating induction lines are add by the orginal field. With the most material this influence comes down on a merely adding (paramagnetism) or weakening (diamagnetism) of the magnetic field. There are nevertheless some materials, the so called ferromagnetic materials, which put in a magnetic field this field localy considerable strengthen (amplifies)." This text is dutch orginal, so here is the orginal text also: "Magnetische eigenschappen van de materie: ------------------------------------------ in het algemeen wordt een magnetisch veld beinvloed door de aanwezigheid van materie in dit veld. Deze materie wordt meer of minder gemagnetiseerd en de hieruit voortspruitende inductielijnen voegen zich bij het oorspronkelijke veld. Bij de meeste stoffen komt deze beinvloeding neer op een slechts geringe versterking (paramagnetisme) of verzwakking (diamagnetisme) van het magnetische veld. Er zijn echter enkele stoffen, de zogenaamde ferromagnetische materialen die, in een magnetisch veld gebracht, dit veld plaatselijk aanzienlijk versterken." This is also confirmed by the Quickfield simulation gifs. -- Ronald. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 16:00:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA02149; Wed, 28 May 1997 15:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338CB705.5021@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 08:21:49 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Phase 2 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6E65D05C22" Resent-Message-ID: <"8glAL.0.SX.nUBZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3409 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6E65D05C22 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Attached are some suggested SMOT ramp mods to make linking easier. I guess that means we have started Phase 2. Some of you are really going fast. Slow down and HELP the others, spread your experiences around. Lets get dozens if not hundreds BUILDING and PLAYING with these SMOT ramps. In Phase 2 there are several goals that I would ask ALL of you to achieve : 1) Link 4 SMOT ramps in a straignt line. 2) Lift each suceeding ramp several mm above the preceeding ramp and achieve a final lift twice the lift in the first ramp. For links based on the plans, thats a 24mm final lift height. 3) Demonstrate 8-10 ball in transit through the linked ramps. 4) Achieve a ball roll away with the lifted linked ramps. This is the first REAL proof of OU! This may seem a difficult task, but it can be done! You will need to develope good skills in ramp adjustemnts and ramp linking. After a while, you will develop a sixth sense of how to adjust your ramps. You will KNOW what will happen if you do this or that. Meanwhile, theory guys (and gals), if you don't build ramps, think about how to explain this. Its real, its on the net and it needs to be explained. As we are now moving into real interesting territory now, I ask ALL of you (Builders and Thinkers) to be as open as I have been with you. If you REALLY want to change the world, we ALL must be a part of this. And as to you fence sitters, START BUILDING! As I have been asked by many .... many people for kits, I have done some checking and have come up with the following : SMOT PHASE 2 kit 4 x SMOT ramps, including ALL components and a manual! 4 x Base assy, 16 x Straignt pins, 4 x Polished Alum "U" channels, 8 x 12mm Steel balls, 8 x Magnet arrays, 1 x Instruction manual, 1 x Signed Certificate of Authenticity and a picture of me with the linked ramps. Air mailed to anywhere on the planet. Cost : $110 US (Money orders please) To : Greg Watson, 8 Brabham Grove, Aberfoyle Park, 5159, South Australia, Australia. Your SMOT ramp kit will be posted with-in 24 hours of receiving your money. 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1997 14:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:59:34 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970528175632_-730957027@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, harti@bbtt.de Subject: LINKED SMOTs : TEST PASSED Resent-Message-ID: <"lV0EZ1.0.DS5.0hAZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3404 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have tested SUCCESSFULLY two linked SMOTs, its work very well but the adjustement must be very accurate. The disruption gap between the magnetic potential ( in the null zone ) and the potential energy of gravity for regauging the system ( T.Bearden theory) must be adjusted precisely. ( look at my picture ) As said Grag Watson : " The height of the magnets MUST be less than the lift otherwise you will not be able to get the ramps to link. " I have linked two SMOTs ( V 1.02 ) devices, each SMOT is composed of : - 2 Magnetic RAMPS : Each ramp : 15 magnets in 3 layers of 5 magnets, Ceramic Magnets( ferrite ) : 25 x 40 x 10 mm A wide steel backing : 25 x 200 x 4 mm 25 mm steel ball 20 x 20 mm aluminum U channel Plywood and cardboard for the base Magnetic ramps spec : Input gauge : 70 mm Output gauge : 58 mm Height of slope : 25 mm Length : 90 mm (slope) + 20 mm ( entrance ) You will find all pictures and videos in my web site at : http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/s102jln.htm We are on the way of Overunity..... SMOTy yours, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 16:26:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA21920; Wed, 28 May 1997 16:25:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:25:14 -0700 Message-ID: <338CBE6C.5DC8@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 08:53:24 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: straight SMOT ramps OU? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a4Oec.0.CM5.OxBZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3410 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Vorts - > > Wow man, like, I just had a *heavy* SMOT flash... > > You have one straight ramp. Ball drops out to the starting level, but > sticks back against the drop rail with a certain amount of force at an > obviously lower magnetic potential than at the start. We are not very > impressed. You link two ramps. Ball ends up stuck at the end with the same > amount of force. Link three, then four ramps. Ball ends up stuck at the end > with the same amount of force. Oh! I see now - you could just keep on > linking and linking, and the ball sticks back with the *same* amount of > force at the final ramp - no matter how many ramps there are! Oh, I'm sure > there's a tiny cumulative effect for a force increase from more ramps > behind it, Not that I have seen, > but... If it were a no-win game, you'd have 4 times the force > after 4 ramps. But no matter how much friction and eddy currents and air > resistance is met, clackity clack, ramp after ramp, many feet away, you end > up with essentially the same back force. At some point, that back force > obviously isn't enough to account for all the energy spent getting the ball > to that point through all the ramps and losses. One ramp, maybe not. But > several... > > If you can link ramps (I saw Ben Tammetta's AVI - nice job, Ben), and the > back force at the end doesn't grow substantially with each ramp, (and the > magnets don't die), then Greg's gizmo *has* to be OU! > > Everybody knew this already, right? > > - 99th Monkey, > Honolulu HI Hi Rick, Its good when the light turns on. Good BUILDING and TESTING to you. Awaiting your SMOT Phase 2 results. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 16:35:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA23689; Wed, 28 May 1997 16:31:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:31:34 -0700 Message-ID: <338CBFE9.C00@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 08:59:45 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT QField Sims References: <199705281610.JAA01538@norway.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cM3Tt1.0.sn5.K1CZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3411 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > Yes I agree that you spent a LOT of time and energy on the SMOT design to > make it work and then to make it easy for duplication by others. We all > thank you for sharing this information. As people successfully duplicate the > closing the loop SMOT, maybe then we figure out how to power homes with this > technology. > > The Qfield simms are a great way to explain what is happening and maybe even > answer where the energy is coming from. Any info on the return fields and > why they flow in the opposite direction? Its what magnets do. The flux returns to the other pole. > Did you ever do a sim with the ball hitting the null field at the start and > end of the ramp? I would be interested in seeing them. Will do a series and post to the web sites. > Thanks again, > Michael Hi Michael, Remember in looking at the sims that a quick mag field drop off is to the ball, like hitting a brick wall. Part of the SMOT secret is the way the entry field strength increase is very sharp and the exit is very smooth and slow. Hard entry, soft exit. Best Regards and good testing, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 16:38:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA25591; Wed, 28 May 1997 16:36:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:36:28 -0700 Message-ID: <338CC10D.22E@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 09:04:37 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OU "toy" References: <199705281924_MC2-1775-50E5@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ownuv.0.gF6.w5CZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3412 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nicholas Palmer wrote: > > Hi Greg, just to let you know I'm following the excitement on Vortex. I am > asking around for British suppliers of suitable magnets and, if they can be > found, then I will attempt a replication. > BTW, I cannot seem to see the embedded GIFS etc in your messages - > they just stay in ASCII characters - I have tried reading the messages with > Netscape 2.0 and Wincim 3.0 - any suggestions? I assume they are similar to > those on Jean Louis' site? (which I have seen) > > Nick - Group Coordinator, Jersey FoE Hi Nick, I use Netscape 3.0 Gold and Win95. I don't use Mine. The gifs and Jpes are sent as attachments. More than that I can't say. Anyone else out there that can help??? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 18:09:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA12719; Wed, 28 May 1997 18:06:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:06:48 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705290106.VAA01876@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Direct energy transfer with SMOT To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:06:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"2u2FK1.0.B63.bQDZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3413 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey, if you linked hundreds of thousends of these together and made a chain around the world, and linked the end to the start, that would be a direct OU device. It would run around the planet forever. In that case, I would say it was powered by the gravity of the earth, though I'm not sure how. Would a SMOT run in space? Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 18:17:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA16432; Wed, 28 May 1997 18:16:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:16:26 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC6B92.E74B4BC0@chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Cc: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: OU "toy" (about encoded files) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:07:44 -0700 Encoding: 46 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"QpQzF2.0.U04.cZDZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3414 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For encoded files that don't get decoded automatically, I use WINCODE, which will encode/decode lots of stuff. It's a Windows program, hope that works for you. I looked it up at http://WWW.shareware.com/ and came up with the following FTP address for the file: ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/win3/encode/wc273r16.zip Dan Quickert dequickert@ucdavis.edu 916-756-0575 >---------- >From: Greg Watson >Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 1997 4:34 PM >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: OU "toy" > >Nicholas Palmer wrote: >> >> Hi Greg, just to let you know I'm following the excitement on Vortex. I am >> asking around for British suppliers of suitable magnets and, if they can be >> found, then I will attempt a replication. >> BTW, I cannot seem to see the embedded GIFS etc in your messages - >> they just stay in ASCII characters - I have tried reading the messages with >> Netscape 2.0 and Wincim 3.0 - any suggestions? I assume they are similar to >> those on Jean Louis' site? (which I have seen) >> >> Nick - Group Coordinator, Jersey FoE > >Hi Nick, > >I use Netscape 3.0 Gold and Win95. I don't use Mine. The gifs and Jpes >are sent as attachments. More than that I can't say. Anyone else out >there that can help??? > > >Best Regards, > Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 18:41:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA27063; Wed, 28 May 1997 18:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:40:03 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970528213709_1107782466@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: BULLETIN !!! BULLETIN!!! IT WORKS OTHER WAYS ALSO!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"flcBC1.0.mc6.mvDZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3416 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, You are not going to believe what I am about to tell you! I was thinking about how long it would take me to round up all the parts for your fixture, and then I saw on the list the mention of the kit. Well I got to thinking how long It would take in the mail and I am the kind of person who likes to do things now or sooner. I got to looking in my " junk box" from old experments, and found two one inch long by 7/ 8 " diameter, neodymium-iron-boron magnets that I had use to play with about a year ago to see if the magnetic switches I had read about, worked. I had two soft steel bars 2 and one half inches long by one half inch thick by one inch wide. I put the magnet on the back of one of the one inch wide sides at the middle of the bars length. I did the same with the other bar. Then I placed the two on my table in a v shape as you do. Then I got a one and one half inch steel ball I had given to my daughter I found in a machine shop years ago, and put it in the center groove of a plastic foot ruler my daughter had. I put the ruller between the two bars and elevated the end one eight inch above the table top. I checked the ramp without the magnets to make sure the ball rolled down to prove it was a slope. It rolled down very fast. I then put the magnets back with nothing holding them in place, just their weight holding them down. I rolled the magnet up the ramp to about one half inch from the v and when I felt the slighest pull from the bars I let it go. The first time it stoped at the end of the magnets and I noticed that the end of the ruler was past the magnets. I moved it to just past the end of the magnets and the second time it rolled up the ramp from a dead stop to the end of the ruller and fell off !!! I want to put a video on the net and pictures of it. How do I go about it ? I have never done any of that before. It works every time and I want to show every one another way of doing what you have discovered. I am so excited I can hardly type, this is more fun than I've had in years! How do I get It on the net in video? Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 18:55:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA26497; Wed, 28 May 1997 18:54:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:54:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970528185421.00ad62b4@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:54:22 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: t Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_DaxM1.0.wT6.27EZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3417 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: t From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 19:26:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA32288; Wed, 28 May 1997 19:25:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 19:25:06 -0700 Message-ID: <338CE887.58FA@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 11:53:03 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Kits, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"y927K1.0.Iu7.0aEZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3419 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Sorry for the confusion. I am too used to dealing in US Dollars. The pricing is $150 Aust Dollars via an International Bank Cheque. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 19:30:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA04154; Wed, 28 May 1997 19:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 19:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:28:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: "Science wig. sig." cc: science Subject: Re: Direct energy transfer with SMOT In-Reply-To: <199705290106.VAA01876@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"aQYDd1.0.k01.YYEZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3418 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 28 May 1997, Science wig. sig. wrote: > > Hey, if you linked hundreds of thousends of these together and made a chain > around the world, and linked the end to the start, that would be a direct > OU device. It would run around the planet forever. In that case, I would > say it was powered by the gravity of the earth, though I'm not sure how. > Would a SMOT run in space? <--duh yep! > Andrew > > When it comes by here (Denver) I could put a note on it to you and you could get it when it passes by -eh? (smiles) like the note on the pigeon leg sans the pigeon / food /& coops/cages.... (still smiling).. -- i'm going on to the Rotary loop to power my bike, then to the back yard power the house version.. -- :) se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 20:09:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA09826; Wed, 28 May 1997 20:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:01:32 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 23:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970528230001_336934004@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: correction on ball dia. Resent-Message-ID: <"XzDyj3.0.PP2.86FZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3420 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, Steel ball dia. is 1 and 1/4 " not 1 and 1/2", I was very excited, sorry. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 21:33:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA23159; Wed, 28 May 1997 21:32:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:32:40 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 22:38:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: correction on ball dia. MINE WORKS In-Reply-To: <970528230001_336934004@emout15.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"rxWKQ3.0.hf5.cRGZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3421 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 28 May 1997 HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > Greg, > Steel ball dia. is 1 and 1/4 " not 1 and 1/2", I was very excited, sorry. > Butch > Finally got enough little magnets - COUNT ME IN on WORKING SMOT1! - I only have 3 Balls :) and some Buckshot and BB's :( laying around. ALL THREE BALLS WORK 18mm/20mm(mouse type ball)/25mm. or in decimal/US 3/4"/ 7/8" /15/16"(auto wheel bearing). They ALL Accelerate and jump! out of the raised end,.. to which my wife said the same thing as Gregs' wife " well, of course the do silly." I don't think she grasps just how much FASTER the EXIT (zoom) is to the INPUT (null) and its implications.... THIS IS GREAT GOING ON TO SMOT2! -------------------------- Oh, while waiting on exact parts (and I'm glad Greg is selling kits! WE ALL HIM ANYWAY HERE -eh?), I wanted to let some of you know that the RADIO SHACK part #64-1879 'Choke magnets' WORK OK! Rather than the 'V' entry exit, I set the side metal bars parallel and STACKED as someone mentioned earlier today. 1-2-3-4 DEEP (per side) North on one side SOUTH on the other.. noted N/N or S/S not near as FORCEFUL(zoomable)... Looking forward to CLOSE the LOOP... wish original plans were BIGGER though. This will make one hell of a MUFFLED RAIL GUN!!! I hope all this international "Brain-Power" can get us a Rotory-in-a-can so i can take it up camping. se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed May 28 22:24:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA31498; Wed, 28 May 1997 22:23:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 22:23:43 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 01:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970529012304_-697365116@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: test - ignore Resent-Message-ID: <"JlK942.0.3i7.UBHZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3423 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry for this ping test... JLN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 00:01:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA07708; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: 29 May 97 02:59:18 EDT From: JEAN-LOUIS NAUDIN <100721.3620@CompuServe.COM> To: Free NRG list Cc: Jnaudin AOL Subject: test - ignore Message-ID: <970529065918_100721.3620_EHQ45-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"cc3gH3.0.Ku1.ZcIZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3424 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ping test - sorry From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 00:03:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA07973; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:03:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:03:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338D2926.2253@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 16:28:46 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Phase 2, 3, 4 References: <199705290603.XAA18984@iceland.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tEap3.0.Uy1.geIZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3425 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > Great idea to sell kits! Though I am planning on building all four phases, I > would be interested in buying your SMOT Phase 4, close the loop kit, if you > plan on putting one together, to see how you built it. > > Best Regards, > Michael With all the improvments happening, I have modified the Phases and will show how to close the loop in Phase 3 with the improved ramps. But others may be there before me! Details of the improvments will be posted in the next day or so. The improved ramps will be in the kits. The kits are very well made. Base of dark plexi-glass. Quite presentable for the "Exec Desk". Strong enough for the lab. Overall a well designed and built set of SMOT ramps. Each ramp will be numbered, dated and signed by me. I must try and get some sleep, sometime. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 00:14:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA13236; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:14:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:14:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705290714.AAA06042@iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: SMOT query Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"2HIqk1.0.jE3.7pIZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3426 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, Well the magnets (3/8"x1/4"x7/8", source posted 5/25) arrived today and I built a ramp using your design info converted into english dimensions. And it works! Due to the thicker dimension of the magnets, the assay magnetic field was too strong for 1/2" ball but worked great for the 5/8" steel ball. Next planning on Phase II, the four ramp SMOT. Glad to hear your offering kits! It will help those that can't find all of the parts and will be a real time saver without the need in experimenting with different componets. Best Regards, Michael Randall BTW, if anyone is having any problem with their unit or would like more info on my unit, feel free to ask me any question. I don't have access to computer video or scanning equipment just yet. The video's that others have done for their units says it all already! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 00:28:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA14661; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:27:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:27:47 -0700 Message-ID: <338D2F83.369B@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 16:55:55 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Professional fun and a damper for O/U. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jrgVo3.0.-a3.o_IZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3427 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Martin Sevior wrote: > > On Wed, 28 May 1997, Barry Merriman wrote: > > > > Get a grip. man. Next thing you know, you'll have your own > > theory of Anti-Gravity :-). > > > Can't help it. This SMOT thing is too much fun not to enjoy. Why can't > professionals have fun too! > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Meanwhile, I've been thinking about whether a permanent magnet is > in a lower energy state magnetized or unmagnetized and if one can make an > estimate of how much energy is stored in a ferromagnet. > > My answer is that a magnetized permanent magnet is in a state of higher > energy than unmagnetized. Here is my estimate of its energy. > > The energy stored in a magnetic field is E= 0.5*V*B**2/mu That works fine for a electromagnet's field, where we convert the input current flow into the coils mag field. In the same electromagnet, changes in the mag field caused by other moving magnetic sources are reflected into the coil's current and the coil's current alters to keep the coil's mag field constant. Using the same logic, its not the existing field thats of interest, but like the moving electrons in the wire of the coil, its what happening to the moving electrons in the domains / iron atoms that are required to supply any lost energy from the PM's field. Over to Hal and ZPE at this point. > Where V = volume in meters cubed, B= Magnetic field intensity (in Tesla) > and mu is the magnetic permeability of the material containing the magnetic > field. > > Typically for the sized magnets used by Greg Watson and everyone else on > SMOT bandwagon we can take, B = 0.1 tesla, V, Volume = > 0.1*0.1*0.1 = 0.001 meters cubed and mu = 4*pi*10**-7 for free space. > > In free space the Energy = 0.5*(0.1)**5/(4*3.14159*10**-7) = 4 Joules. > > Inside the magnet mu is about 10,000 times greater than free space so the > energy there is negligable. > > So my rough guess is that there is 4 Joules of energy in a typical > SMOT setup. > > How long would it take to consume this energy? Its not the energy in the field that's the concern. Its where this energy is coming from and WHY it stays (like a EM coil's field) constant. And I am NOT talking about the energy necessary to make the magnet or align the domains. > Greg Watson says that 4 linked ramps can lift a 12 mm ball, 12 mm in height. One ramp can do that. I have achieved 27mm as a max and still get release. Others have achieved over 50mm. > A 12 mm diameter ball weighs about 5 grams so the gravitational energy is: > > E = mgh = 0.005*9.8*0.12 = 0.006 Joules. > > Given that we have 4 Joules of energy, that means our typical 4 ramp > SMOT has a lifetime of about 680 lifts to 12 mm in height. After that we have > to worry about something else as a source of energy. I have exceeded that figure by approx 5 times to date with SMOT ramp testing. The RMOD was much .... much more. > That's quite a lot of runs, maybe that's all that's going on here. The effect > would be a slow decrease in magnetic field strength with use. Eventually the > effect would cease. I don't think you really believe that. Don't tell me there is more than one devil's advocate here! Nothing like a good theory fight!. And the winner of ROUND 1 is ???????? Where is Barry??????? > Martin Sevior Hi Martin, I have NEVER seen a magnet die by use. Heavy external demag field, yes, use within its B/H curve no. I have looked for reduced flux in some of my oldest magnets. No measurable (hall effect device) flux reduction. The magnets in the original RMOD device ran for almost 4 days until I stopped (it wore out physically). It was those that I measured before and after. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 00:40:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA16172; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:39:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:39:49 -0700 Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 01:45:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: Greg Watson cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT Phase 2, 3, 4 In-Reply-To: <338D2926.2253@microtronics.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"nO3fp1.0.Xy3.3BJZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3428 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 29 May 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > I must try and get some sleep, sometime. > Best Regards, > Greg I think I mentioned that to you once before .... please DO take some time off (Sleep) and let us catch up with smots in the raw... YOU'VE EARNED IT ALREADY.. we will BE here... waiting with bated breath. AND we're working like crazy to catch-up / jump over to new areas / and are trying to do ALL that you did in less time! ------------------------- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ------------------------- if you can't, I hope the 'fame' is what you first IMAGINED and is worth it for you & yours! -enjoy- ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX i could use the sleep too, but it's too much fun!!!!!!! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 00:40:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA16330; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:40:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:40:18 -0700 Message-ID: <338D3275.C2D@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:08:29 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cheap SMOT!! References: <970529070855_100433.1541_BHG58-1@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"f24671.0.v-3.XBJZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3429 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > Martin wrote to Terry: > > > In any case are you saying that starting at some initial height, > > the ball accelerates through the SMOT, and rolls away at the > > starting height? Can you make it roll away at a height above your > > starting point? If that's the case there is something very > > interesting going on with just one SMOT. > > Actually, I think that even if the heights are the same on entry and > exit, then we have an "apparent anomaly" since the magnetic potential > is lower at the start point than after the roll-away. The fact that > Terry is now making it clear that he gets (a) extra height and (b) > extra momentum as well as a lower magnetic potential - not to mention > the overcoming of friction and all the rest of it - makes me think that > ... er ... he should ... er ... double check everything ... I did the first time I got a roll away. But the device still worked and when I reported I, all I got was Bull.hit. Close the loop. Muffled laughter in the background. > It is weird though, innit? We are all very familiar with the old > story - there's this guy who says he can make a machine which just > goes and goes; then others try and theirs don't. So, when this guy > comes along and says his works, and we see people on just about every > continent on the planet reporting strange goings-on ... well, I hope to > see what happens here soon, but I know that even if I see a "Blanton > one-ramp rollaway" then I won't believe it. And I'll certainly be > looking for any reason (good reason) to explain it away. Explain it away? You think its not real? Why? Do yo really believe we KNOW everyting about everything. In time, you all will realize I DON'T claim anything I can't prove. Its not good for LONG TERM business. > And if *I* can't cope with a "rollaway" - how will some people I could > mention (but won't) handle it? Apoplexy, I shouldn't wonder. It took me several weeks to accept it. I still have problems with it. An I am only a EE. Would give most PHD's a severe headache and cause them to go running to hold onto their research grant. > By the way, IS there any good reason why a "one-ramp rollaway at the > same level" should not be regarded as something to take seriously, even > if there is no height gain? I'm feeling a dichotomy here (ouch), in > that half of me would like the security blanket of a *good* explanation > and the other half wants to believe that it is over-unity. I took it very seriously. Thats why we are here today. > Chris Hi Chris, Interesting times, NO? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 00:49:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA13838; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338D3410.57A8@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:15:20 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Art Bell WANTS smot-x References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"anT4A.0.zN3.AJJZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3430 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve Ekwall wrote: > > Hey all vorts > just sitting here playing smot1 to smot2 linkage and have ART BELL the > radio host (national?/international?) asking an old 'Ham radio' friend > where the hell are the time travelers (IF there are time machines) - where > are the UFO people (IF there are UFO's) -- and where are the o/u Over > Unity machines if O/U is possible! his guest mentioned he will 'soon be > invited to see the CF updates/releases -swears "it does work, but you > can't get a kit, because it needs super-sensitive calorometers to detect > the measurments and IF it runs 'dry' it might BLOW up! (ohhhhh)... > ---------------------------------------- > anyway, GREG , and SMOT'ters, ART said he "would 'Die' for even a little > TOY > to play with... anything to show that the potentional of of O/U, that he > could play with"..... this might /ormight not be a GREAT exposure medium. > He claims the largest night audiance of all the air-waves.. > -------------------------------------------- > presently however, he's guest is just now giving a way to 'make' a home > Cold Fusion experiment @ home using "nickels in water" and passing current > through it. (says answers are a YEAR OUT for practical units/kits) > ----------------------------------------------- > ps. he loved & promoted the levitron to a profitable endeavor.. Thoughts? > > ============================================ > Greg: would a freeby Kit pay off here (in your plan of things/exposure) > or are we too soon?? If I present it personally! > > ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ > -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 Hi Steve, Don't know Art Bell, but I would be interested in talking. By the way, I am a very good public speaker who presents and debates well. Any talk show, lecture circuit offers? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 00:48:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA17864; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:48:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:48:22 -0700 Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705290748.AAA11849@iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: SMOT Phase 2, 3, 4 Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"J8GXA3.0.vM4.5JJZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3431 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, Am I reading this correctly, that the kit can close-the-loop Phase 3 & 4? If so, please hold a unit for me, my postal money order will be in the mail tomorrow! Best Regards, Michael Randall At 04:28 PM 5/29/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >Michael Randall wrote: >> >> Hi Greg, >> >> Great idea to sell kits! Though I am planning on building all four phases, I >> would be interested in buying your SMOT Phase 4, close the loop kit, if you >> plan on putting one together, to see how you built it. >> >> Best Regards, >> Michael > >With all the improvments happening, I have modified the Phases and will >show how to close the loop in Phase 3 with the improved ramps. But >others may be there before me! > >Details of the improvments will be posted in the next day or so. > >The improved ramps will be in the kits. > >The kits are very well made. >Base of dark plexi-glass. >Quite presentable for the "Exec Desk". >Strong enough for the lab. >Overall a well designed and built set of SMOT ramps. >Each ramp will be numbered, dated and signed by me. > >I must try and get some sleep, sometime. > > >Best Regards, > Greg > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 00:51:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA18610; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:50:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:50:30 -0700 Message-ID: <338D34DC.4652@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:18:44 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT Phase 2, 3, 4 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eJ1JT3.0.cY4.3LJZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3432 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve Ekwall wrote: > > On Thu, 29 May 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > > > I must try and get some sleep, sometime. > > Best Regards, > > Greg > > I think I mentioned that to you once before .... please DO take some time > off (Sleep) and let us catch up with smots in the raw... YOU'VE EARNED > IT ALREADY.. we will BE here... waiting with bated breath. AND we're > working like crazy to catch-up / jump over to new areas / and are trying > to do ALL that you did in less time! > > ------------------------- > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > ------------------------- > if you can't, I hope the 'fame' is what you first IMAGINED and is worth it > for you & yours! -enjoy- > > ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ > -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 Hi Steve, I am an old trooper at this stuff. Built a Multi-million dollar business once before, then I semi-retired. Found out that is the challenge of making thing happen that keeps me a very young 50. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 00:55:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA14798; Thu, 29 May 1997 00:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338D359F.25F4@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:21:59 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT Phase 2, 3, 4 References: <199705290748.AAA11849@iceland.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TE3fG.0.7d3.-OJZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3433 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > Am I reading this correctly, that the kit can close-the-loop Phase 3 & 4? If > so, please hold a unit for me, my postal money order will be in the mail > tomorrow! > > Best Regards, > Michael Randall Hi Michael, Yes, the improved SMOT ramps in the kit will close. Send International Bank Cheque in Aust dollars, not money orders. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 03:38:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA23885; Thu, 29 May 1997 03:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 03:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970529033731.00ae1934@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 03:37:48 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Professional fun and a damper for O/U. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"J7OUy3.0.2r5.ToLZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3434 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Another good and error-free measurement of the energy stored in a permanent magnet is the measure of energy that is necessary to magnetize the unmagnetized magnetic material. The BaFe2O3 or SrFe2O3 ceramic magnet material is manufactured in an UNmagnetized state. Than a large sheet of this material is put inside of a coil an a bank of capacitors is discharged through the coil and a diode. The coil creates a magnetic pulse that has a higher intensity than the magnetic material permeability, thus aligning the domains. Later the large sheet is cut to little pieces. Sooo... by knowing the voltage in the capacitors powering the magnetizing coil and the capacitance of the capacitors and the inductance and DC resistance of the coil, it is easy to calculate HOW MUCH ENERGY IS EXPENDED TO MAGNETIZE THE MAGNET. The energy stored in a capacitor is 0.5CE^2. (so all you need is a multimeter to get a very accurate estimate of the stored energy) So if you charge the supply capacitors with 10 joules, you CAN be sure that only maximum of 10 joules of energy went to creating (magnetizing) the permanent magnet. Of course if you do not have access to a virgin magnetic alloy, you can always heat an already magnetized piece above the curie temperature, and you will end up with non-magnetized piece. For your reference I am including a list of the magnetizing/demagnetizing force required for variety of the permanent magnet alloys. Material Grade Demagnet Curie BH-Strength NdFeB g39 - 21,300 150 40 SmCo g26 - 10,000 300 26 AlNiCo g05 - 640 540 5.5 Ceramic g08 - 3,200 300 3.5 (BaFe2O3 or SrFe2O3) Flexible g01 - 1,300 100 0.6 Grade = Material quality grade (alloy type ie. ALNICO 5) Demagnet = Demagnetizing/Magnetizing force in Oersteds Curie = Curie Temperature in Degrees Celsius BH-Strength = Maximum Energy Product in Mega Gauss Oersteds (MGO) The above clearly shows that AlNiCo is THE EASIEST to demagnetize. However AlNiCo has the highest Curie temperature of them all - 540degC. The Neodymium (NdFeB) magnets are the strongest (ie. they have the highest energy product). Flexible magnets are the weakest. At 04:43 PM 5/29/97 +1000, you wrote: >The energy stored in a magnetic field is E= 0.5*V*B**2/mu > >Where V = volume in meters cubed, B= Magnetic field intensity (in Tesla) >and mu is the magnetic permeability of the material containing the magnetic >field. > >Typically for the sized magnets used by Greg Watson and everyone else on >SMOT bandwagon we can take, B = 0.1 tesla, V, Volume = >0.1*0.1*0.1 = 0.001 meters cubed and mu = 4*pi*10**-7 for free space. > >In free space the Energy = 0.5*(0.1)**5/(4*3.14159*10**-7) = 4 Joules. > >Inside the magnet mu is about 10,000 times greater than free space so the >energy there is negligable. > >So my rough guess is that there is 4 Joules of energy in a typical >SMOT setup. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 03:39:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA24023; Thu, 29 May 1997 03:39:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 03:39:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 11:37:39 +0100 From: Geoff Greaves Reply-To: geoff@compcafe.co.uk Organization: Computer Cafes Limited X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Flexible Magnets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <97May29.113329bst.74881@gatehouse.powys.gov.uk> Resent-Message-ID: <"9SyNP.0.Et5.MpLZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3435 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: As it keeps appearing here I thought I should correct some information about flexible magnetic strip. This is not necessarily polarized: NSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNS NSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNS NSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNS but is commonly available that way in narrow to wide strips of thin material, 1.5mm say, for those ubiquitous fridge magnets. Usually called tape and supplied self-adhesive. Thicker strip, 3-4mm say, of the sort found inside the seal around fridge doors (those things with cartoon characters on) and usually about 10mm wide is available polarized through, N one side and S the other, and I've also got some wacky strip from an old fridge polarized thus: SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS While the polarized-through would seem ideal for the SMOT it will only have (typically) one third the strength (BH) of sintered ferrite which is the material of Greg's magnets, I believe?. I doubt if even a multi-layer sandwich would do the job but thinking about this makes me wonder if at least one layer would help smooth out the field of the multiple sintered ferrite bars. Of course, the 13mm magnets specified undoubtedly started life as a long bar, and if purchasing from a magnet supplier rather than a store it would be easy to get 104mm magnets. I imagine Greg's response would be "Build a SMOT to my specification first and then experiment all you can." but if you can't get the exact parts straight away I guess the experimentation will come first! Cheers, geoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 04:15:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA26005; Thu, 29 May 1997 04:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 04:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970529041432.00ae275c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 04:14:50 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: A mundane explanation of SMOTs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UyZ1h.0.EM6.CLMZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3436 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A much more accurate estimate of the travel ling losses of the ball in the SMOT, could be done empirically by weighing the ball and accelerating it to a known velocity (i.e. by a sloped release ramp) and than measuring how far the ball will travel on an absolutely level U channel, before it stops. If you want to be more accurate, make several steps in the U channel to simulate the ball being dropped onto a channel from above as it exits a SMOT ramp and starts up another ramp. The above experiment must be performed without magnets, and that means that the eddy-current-breaking will not be accounted for... This experiment also requires a very long U channel to measure the "roll-out" distance before the ball completely stops. If this is a problem, bend the two ends of a U channel up so the ball will go back and fro / up and down the bent ends like a pendulum. Count how many times the balls swings before coming to a full stop and you will now the friction, air resistance, noise losses pretty exactly. I would do it but I don't have enough U channel on hand. P.S. Could somebody please do this empirical measurement and report the results to the list. The quantity of mechanical losses will become a very important issue very very soon, in estimating the energy output of the SMOT and evaluating explanations presented by scientists like Barry. Knowing the exact loss figure will also help to eliminate any faulty explanations of the source of SMOT's energy. THIS IS IMPORTANT ! At 01:45 AM 5/29/97 -0700, Barry Merriman wrote: >Here. Allow me to take a shot at a mundane explantion, >based on comments of Martin and Hal: > >Perhaps the energy that drives the ball in the closed >loop mode is simply the energy removed from the magnetic >field via the presence of the ball, which kills the field >energy in its vicinity (refer to >http://home.worldonline.nl/~catware/ld2.html >for a picture of this effect; refer to plot of B). > >Lets figure: the available energy from killing the >0.04 Tesla ambient field within a ~ 20 mm neighborhood of >of the ball is (in MKS) > >dE = (B^2/(2 mu0)) * volume > ~ ((0.04)^2/(2* 10^-6) * (20 x 10^-3)^3 > ~ 16 * 8/2 * 0.0001 > ~ 0.005 Joules > >The system has this much free energy to work with once >the ball is in place. Now, let us count the losses: >The dominant losses in a well built system will be friction >and drag from the air: > >Drag: > >the power loss to drag is P_drag F.V, where F is the drag force, >V the ball velocity. The drag force is > >F = C (rho_air V^2)/2 > >where C = drag coeff is about 20 for a sphere of that size moving >through air at 0.01 m/sec (=> Reynolds number ~ 1), rho_air >is the density of air ~ 1 kg/m^3, so > >F = 20 * 1 * 0.01^2 /2 = 0.001 Newtons > >and the power loss is > >P_drag = 10^-5 Watts > >If the velocity were 0.001 m/s, we woudl get instead >C ~ 200 and > >P_drag = 10^-6 Watts > >Friction: > >The power loss do to friction is due to the rolling fricition >of the ball on the track: P_friction = F.V, where F is >friction forc F = C W, W = wieght of ball, C = coeff of >rolling friction. We have W ~ 10 gram = 0.01 kg. Coeff. >of rolling friction is extremely small; I don't have any >precise numbers handy, but I would guess it is < 0.001, >since coeff's of *sliding* friction can get down to 0.04 or >so (teflon on steel). Thus > >P_friction < P_drag (probably << ) > >in any case, and we can neglect it. > >Based on the available energy dE ~ 0.005 J, and the loss >rate of P = 10^-5 W -- 10^-6 W, we would expect the thing to run >for 500 -- 5000 seconds ~ 10 -- 100 minutes. > >Greg said that in practice a version of his device ran for >about 200 minutes before it stopped. > >Seems pretty reasonable to me. I imagine a test would be >to position the ball *at rest* at the point of greatest >field cancellation (i.e. where B is strongest in the >ball-free set up) and then let it go. At this point it can't >pick up extra energy from additional field cancellation. > > >In any case, it should be clear from these comments and >Martin's that there is ample energy available from >minor alterations to the free space field (per >above) and/or magnetization (per martin's comments) >(Note a *1 part in 1000* reduction in magnetization would >give a few (~10) milli-Joules of energy, also enough to perform >as above) due to the perturbing presence of the ball in the system >are enough to "power" the device to run in "closed loop" mode for >a couple hours---exactly what is observed. Any reason to >think this is not what is occuring? > >-- >Barry Merriman >Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program >Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math >email: barry@math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 04:16:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA02224; Thu, 29 May 1997 04:15:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 04:15:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970529041529.00adf3cc@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 04:15:47 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: How long to consume SMOT ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZAa__.0.fY.PLMZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3437 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The energy calculation E = mgh = 0.005*9.8*0.12 = 0.006 Joules is not applicable to SMOT because the ball is NOT lifted to 12mm, 24mm, 36mm, 48mm, etc... BUT it always returns to the same level after it exits the ramp. Sooo... the only energy consumed is energy consumed by friction, air resistance, U channel damping, noise, eddy currents, etc... 680 lifts to 12mm height would raise the ball to 8.16 meters (26.77 feet) and THIS IS NOT HAPPENING WITH SMOT !!! P.S. Errors: 12mm = 0.012m (not 0.12) 5 grams for a 12mm steel ball seems a little small for me. >>> E = mgh = 0.005*9.8*0.12 = 0.006 Joules. m = mass in kilograms g = gravitational acceleration 9.8 meters/second^2 h = height in meters E = energy in joules At 04:43 PM 5/29/97 +1000, you wrote: >How long would it take to consume this energy? (4 joules stored in the magnetization of the magnets) > >Greg Watson says that 4 linked ramps can lift a 12 mm ball, 12 mm in height. >A 12 mm diameter ball weighs about 5 grams so the gravitational energy is: > >E = mgh = 0.005*9.8*0.12 = 0.006 Joules. > >Given that we have 4 Joules of energy, that means our typical 4 ramp >SMOT has a lifetime of about 680 lifts to 12 mm in height. After that we have >to worry about something else as a source of energy. > >That's quite a lot of runs, maybe that's all that's going on here. The effect >would be a slow decrease in magnetic field strength with use. Eventually the >effect would cease. > >Martin Sevior > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 04:22:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA26677; Thu, 29 May 1997 04:21:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 04:21:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970529042058.00ae23f8@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 04:21:16 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: SMOT err... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2Wfz1.0.jW6.ARMZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3438 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Err... It should have been: >The coil creates a magnetic pulse that has a higher intensity than the >magnetic material magnetizing/demagnetizing threshold (coercivity), thus aligning the domains. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 05:43:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA04411; Thu, 29 May 1997 05:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 05:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 07:44:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970529074130.3e174d5e@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: Little round radio shack magnets Resent-Message-ID: <"W_8pI3.0.q41.zcNZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3439 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello all, Jerry Decker (Jerry can you respond). regarding the radio shack little round magnets. I was at a meeting a couple years back and a fella had used the round magnets on edge like you guys are, and each side was parraell. and they were just one layer each side on a level service. And he was NOT using any soft metal stip and in stead of a ball he used a discarded (thread spool) and on each end he glued a radio shack magent. (no v groove here). placed it on one end and it would shoot towards the other end and slow down, but never left the other end. Now Jerry Decker with the Keely page is the man who I beleive made one also. Now this in a way seems more complex compared to the man gentleman who mentioned using his daughters ruler and stell ball and couple magnets, but as they say... here is another way to skin the cat... for the vegetarians... peel the banana??? anyway I am going to ask jerry to respond on his information, in fact I beleive there is a drawing or plans on how to build one on the keely data base. just thoughts here.... PS Jerry might not be able to respond as he is planning or has gone on a recent vacation so maybe I can track it down if he doen't respond. Mike Slivinski sunbrite@mymail.net http://www.myhomepage.net/~sunbrite/ God helps those, that help themselves... so they may help others! MCS From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 06:29:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA19771; Thu, 29 May 1997 06:28:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 06:28:43 -0700 Message-ID: <338D76A9.25EE@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:59:29 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: correction on ball dia. MINE WORKS References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RaQvd3.0.oq4.8IOZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3440 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve Ekwall wrote: > > On Wed, 28 May 1997 HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Greg, > > Steel ball dia. is 1 and 1/4 " not 1 and 1/2", I was very excited, sorry. > > Butch > > > Finally got enough little magnets - COUNT ME IN on WORKING SMOT1! - > I only have 3 Balls :) and some Buckshot and BB's :( laying around. > ALL THREE BALLS WORK 18mm/20mm(mouse type ball)/25mm. > or in decimal/US 3/4"/ 7/8" /15/16"(auto wheel bearing). > They ALL Accelerate and jump! out of the raised end,.. to which my wife > said the same thing as Gregs' wife " well, of course the do silly." > I don't think she grasps just how much FASTER the EXIT (zoom) is to the > INPUT (null) and its implications.... THIS IS GREAT GOING ON TO SMOT2! > -------------------------- > Oh, while waiting on exact parts (and I'm glad Greg is selling kits! WE > ALL HIM ANYWAY HERE -eh?), I wanted to let some of you know that the RADIO > SHACK part #64-1879 'Choke magnets' WORK OK! Rather than the 'V' entry > exit, I set the side metal bars parallel and STACKED as someone mentioned > earlier today. 1-2-3-4 DEEP (per side) North on one side SOUTH on the > other.. noted N/N or S/S not near as FORCEFUL(zoomable)... > Looking forward to CLOSE the LOOP... wish original plans were BIGGER > though. This will make one hell of a MUFFLED RAIL GUN!!! I hope all this > international "Brain-Power" can get us a Rotory-in-a-can so i can take it > up camping. > > se > > ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ > -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 Hi Steve, Sounds that you are talking about RMOD Mark II. NO ramps, no balls, no noise, only smooth powerfull rotation. Its only theory and sims at present, but its looking really good. Enough said for now. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 06:30:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA19973; Thu, 29 May 1997 06:29:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 06:29:02 -0700 Message-ID: <338D827D.39EF@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:49:57 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Newman-l CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: BULLETIN !!! BULLETIN!!! IT WORKS OTHER WAYS ALSO!!! References: <9705282137368173@emachine.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eSBYx1.0.wt4.TIOZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3442 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Newman-l wrote: > > From: HLafonte@aol.com > Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 22:27:28 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: Re: BULLETIN !!! BULLETIN!!! IT WORKS OTHER WAYS ALSO!!! > > Greg, > You are not going to believe what I am about to tell you! I was thinking > about how long it would take me to round up all the parts for your fixture, > and then I saw on the list the mention of the kit. Well I got to thinking how > long It would take in the mail and I am the kind of person who likes to do > things now or sooner. I got to looking in my " junk box" from old experments, > and found two one inch long by 7/ 8 " diameter, neodymium-iron-boron magnets > that I had use to play with about a year ago to see if the magnetic switches > I had read about, worked. I had two soft steel bars 2 and one half inches > long by one half inch thick by one inch wide. I put the magnet on the back of > one of the one inch wide sides at the middle of the bars length. I did the > same with the other bar. Then I placed the two on my table in a v shape as > you do. Then I got a one and one half inch steel ball I had given to my > daughter I found in a machine shop years ago, and put it in the center groove > of a plastic foot ruler my daughter had. I put the ruller between the two > bars and elevated the end one eight inch above the table top. I checked the > ramp without the magnets to make sure the ball rolled down to prove it was a > slope. It rolled down very fast. I then put the magnets back with nothing > holding them in place, just their weight holding them down. I rolled the > magnet up the ramp to about one half inch from the v and when I felt the > slighest pull from the bars I let it go. The first time it stoped at the end > of the magnets and I noticed that the end of the ruler was past the magnets. > I moved it to just past the end of the magnets and the second time it rolled > up the ramp from a dead stop to the end of the ruller and fell off !!! I want > to put a video on the net and pictures of it. How do I go about it ? I have > never done any of that before. It works every time and I want to show every > one another way of doing what you have discovered. I am so excited I can > hardly type, this is more fun than I've had in years! How do I get It on the > net in video? > Thanks, Butch LaFonte Hi Butch, Your setup sounds a lot like my very first ramp. It had three magnets on the back side of a short piece (50mm) of ferrite I had lying around (actually it was from old AM radio tuner coil). My arrays were in a wide "V" and I used a old dead ink pen tube for the ball to roll in. First time it ran up to the top, but hung. I then adjusted the tube down and it worked every time after that. Different dog, same leg action! Looking forward to your linking report. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 06:30:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA19910; Thu, 29 May 1997 06:28:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 06:28:58 -0700 Message-ID: <338D8099.6FF6@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:41:53 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT Criteria References: <338CF8A9.F1F59EB5@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------23B74A2E26D1" Resent-Message-ID: <"6LS2y.0.Zs4.LIOZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3441 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------23B74A2E26D1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hamdi Ucar wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > It will useful to include an over-unity criteria to describe exactly on > which condition the toy can be considered exhibiting over-unity effect > and not. I think on most cases the thickness of the ramp was not taken > account and when the ball go away from the exit on any conditions, it is > assumed as OU effect. > > Regards, > > Hamdi Ucar Hi Hamdi, Some time ago I defined 3 types of ramps : 1) Ball climbs to top of ramp and hangs. (Not Ou) 2) Ball climbs to top of ramp and drops to entry level, but doesn't roll away. (Not clearly Ou, but maybe if mag field is lower than that at entry) 3) Ball climbs to top of ramp and drops to entry level and rolls away. (High probability of Ou. Depends on zero entry energy of ball.) I have obtained all three classes of ramp. My theory on what divides the classes is based on where the equal entry mag field density is encountered on exit. The divisions based on ramp classes are as follows : 1) The entry field density is encountered just under the maagnet arrays and the ball hangs. 2) The entry field density is encountered below the entry level and the ball is held at the exit by the higher field density (than the start). 3) The entry field density is encountered between the hang point of item 1) and the exit level. This means that as the ball drops and reaches the exit / entry level, the encountered mag field density is below the entry mag field and the ball kinetic energy carries is away from the ramp exit. I have attached a Gif image showing this theory. 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+0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cheap SMOT!! References: <970529081140_100433.1541_BHG109-1@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4j1QQ3.0.rP5.ZPOZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3443 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > Terry, > > > Yes the excess momentum (plus the mechanical losses) seems to > > violate conservation of energy. > > If a "one-ramp rollaway" can be achieved with the exit slightly higher > than the entry (apologies for the 'if', but ...) then there is no > reason in principle why the ball can't be persuaded to find its way back > to the start point ... is there? In Phase 3, we WILL achieve a lift at the top of the 4th linked ramp of over twice the original. Any ideas of what to do then with a bit of plastic tubing? > > I wonder if I can get rotary motion by using curved magnets and > > and a non-conducting disk with some ferrite nodules? > > So do I. Thats RMOD Mark II. > Chris > (in mind-boggle mode) > PS - are we having fun yet? Hi Chris, Got a link to work yet? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 06:38:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA22565; Thu, 29 May 1997 06:37:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 06:37:47 -0700 Message-ID: <3247E12A.18AB@ats.com.au> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:24:58 +1000 From: Admiral Piett Organization: Bamboo Software Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Idea using 1 ramp References: <199705281242.IAA01902@ns.bluegrass.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AF3Zl3.0.GW5.gQOZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3444 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I don't know if this has been thought of yet and I missed it, but here goes ... What if one were to set up a single SMOT ramp so that the bearing goes up the ramp, drops off the end, then rolls back down to the base of the ramp by rolling UNDERNEATH the ramp. This could be achieved by use of a conduit, which would recieve the bearing at the top of the ramp, and channel it back down to the bottom. By having several bearings going at once, in a continuous chain, I submit that it is possible that the chain of ball bearings would move around this closed loop indefinitely. Let me know what you all think -- Be seeing you ... =8^) ------------------------------------------------------------------- BAMBOO SOFTWARE PRODUCTIONS, INC. "We love playing games, but not as much as making 'em!" ------------------------------------------------------------------- Matthew Etherington (aka Max Rebo) Senior Vice President and Head Programmer [ id4@ats.com.au ] ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Cynic? Ah yes ... 'cynic' is what an idealist calls a realist" --- Sir Humphrey Appleby ------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 06:50:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA26265; Thu, 29 May 1997 06:50:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 06:50:06 -0700 Message-ID: <338D8916.5201@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 23:18:06 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A mundane explanation of SMOTs References: <338D2F83.369B@microtronics.com.au> <338D422F.5182@math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YrCgJ.0.IQ6.DcOZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3445 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > Nothing like a good theory fight!. > > And the winner of ROUND 1 is ???????? > > Where is Barry??????? > > > > Here. Allow me to take a shot at a mundane explantion, > based on comments of Martin and Hal: > > Perhaps the energy that drives the ball in the closed > loop mode is simply the energy removed from the magnetic > field via the presence of the ball, which kills the field > energy in its vicinity (refer to > http://home.worldonline.nl/~catware/ld2.html > for a picture of this effect; refer to plot of B). > > Lets figure: the available energy from killing the > 0.04 Tesla ambient field within a ~ 20 mm neighborhood of > of the ball is (in MKS) > > dE = (B^2/(2 mu0)) * volume > ~ ((0.04)^2/(2* 10^-6) * (20 x 10^-3)^3 > ~ 16 * 8/2 * 0.0001 > ~ 0.005 Joules > > The system has this much free energy to work with once > the ball is in place. Now, let us count the losses: > The dominant losses in a well built system will be friction > and drag from the air: > > Drag: > > the power loss to drag is P_drag F.V, where F is the drag force, > V the ball velocity. The drag force is > > F = C (rho_air V^2)/2 > > where C = drag coeff is about 20 for a sphere of that size moving > through air at 0.01 m/sec (=> Reynolds number ~ 1), rho_air > is the density of air ~ 1 kg/m^3, so > > F = 20 * 1 * 0.01^2 /2 = 0.001 Newtons > > and the power loss is > > P_drag = 10^-5 Watts > > If the velocity were 0.001 m/s, we woudl get instead > C ~ 200 and > > P_drag = 10^-6 Watts > > Friction: > > The power loss do to friction is due to the rolling fricition > of the ball on the track: P_friction = F.V, where F is > friction forc F = C W, W = wieght of ball, C = coeff of > rolling friction. We have W ~ 10 gram = 0.01 kg. Coeff. > of rolling friction is extremely small; I don't have any > precise numbers handy, but I would guess it is < 0.001, > since coeff's of *sliding* friction can get down to 0.04 or > so (teflon on steel). Thus > > P_friction < P_drag (probably << ) > > in any case, and we can neglect it. > > Based on the available energy dE ~ 0.005 J, and the loss > rate of P = 10^-5 W -- 10^-6 W, we would expect the thing to run > for 500 -- 5000 seconds ~ 10 -- 100 minutes. > > Greg said that in practice a version of his device ran for > about 200 minutes before it stopped. I also repeatily said that I could restart it!. It stopped because of movement of the magnets. If you BUILD one of the SMOT ramps, you will see how sensitive they are to adjustment, but once you get it right they are VERY soild. The first version of the RMOD device ran for just short of 4 days until I STOPPED it. The magnets showed NO signs of weaking. > Seems pretty reasonable to me. I imagine a test would be > to position the ball *at rest* at the point of greatest > field cancellation (i.e. where B is strongest in the > ball-free set up) and then let it go. At this point it can't > pick up extra energy from additional field cancellation. > > In any case, it should be clear from these comments and > Martin's that there is ample energy available from > minor alterations to the free space field (per > above) and/or magnetization (per martin's comments) > (Note a *1 part in 1000* reduction in magnetization would > give a few (~10) milli-Joules of energy, also enough to perform > as above) due to the perturbing presence of the ball in the system > are enough to "power" the device to run in "closed loop" mode for > a couple hours---exactly what is observed. Any reason to > think this is not what is occuring? Ask any of the older builders if their magnets are loosing power. I KNOW the answer. My discussions with Hal and his ZPE powered electrons seems to fit what the BUILDERS are seeing. > -- > Barry Merriman Hi Barry, Come on man, join the world, BUILD a ramp. See it work with nothing other than your eyes, Feel it work with your fingers. Hear it work (create noise energy) with your ears. Drop a ball every 0.5 sec and watch all that moving mass. Barry , this is real. BUILD a ramp and help us work out what is happening. My Very Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 07:15:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA16580; Thu, 29 May 1997 07:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 07:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338D8EAC.C8B@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 23:41:56 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A mundane explanation of SMOTs--Corrected References: <199705291245.HAA15335@natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bUvVj3.0.z24.-yOZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3446 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > At 02:06 AM 5/29/97 -0700, Barry Merriman wrote: > > >....so the device could run for > >5000 seconds, or about 1 hour, which is in the range of > >what was actually observed. > > Greg claims 4 DAYS, Barry....not 1 hour...and he further claims that the > magnets are not detectably weakened after those 4 days. I'd say that you > can forget mundane explanations for this. Others have been Smotting for long enough to advise of any reduction in their mag strength. Ask them. > As others have concluded, either: > > 1. It works as he says and we have new physics to explore. > 2. It does not work as he says. It does work, but the physics has been here for ages. Read the list of OU patents I posted earlier. There have been many others. Maybe my timing and approach are the only real difference. Like I said before Scott, "I don't think I am the first". I just talk better. > Greg, you're not pulling the old "GE diamond" trick on us here, are you? > During the development of the industrial diamond, early results were > understandably erratic. One particularly fine example of an early success > was held up to the development team as a goal to learn to duplicate. They > eventually succeeded. Nothing works like faith. Believe hard enough that it can be done and IT WILL BE! That why there are 4 Phases and just enough info dribbled out to keep things rolling along. But this is not a diamond trick, its real. Link 4 SMOT ramps Scott. Feed in balls for a few days and measure the magnets. They will not weaken. > Long afterwards, that particular diamond was > discovered to be a natural diamond that sombody had slipped in! In this > case, by claiming to have closed the loop on yr device you have certainly > succeeded in getting a lot of folks working on it around the world!... > > On the positive side, at this point we have way more to go on than we did, > for example, when we started our investigation into the Potapov device. > This time we have the inventor himself willingly leading us along the > development path toward a claimed working device. It's > irresistible...especially in view of its simplicity and ease of construction. And so many others have claimed duplication. Not so risky now? > Scott Little Hi Scott, I do believe in enpowering people, but I have never claimed anything I can't prove. Life is too long for that and the world is getting smaller all the time. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 07:18:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA17167; Thu, 29 May 1997 07:17:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 07:17:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 10:16:55 -0400 (EDT) From: woods@most.weird.com (Greg A. Woods) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Professional fun and a damper for O/U. In-Reply-To: Greg Watson's message of "Thu, May 29, 1997 16:55:55 +0930" regarding "Re: Professional fun and a damper for O/U." id <338D2F83.369B@microtronics.com.au> References: <338D2F83.369B@microtronics.com.au> Reply-To: woods@weird.com (Greg A. Woods) X-Mailer: ViewMail (vm) Version 5.96 (beta) with GNU Emacs 19.34.1 (m68k.68881-sun-sunos4.1.1, X toolkit) of Thu Sep 12 1996 on most Organization: Planix, Inc.; Toronto, Ontario; Canada Resent-Message-ID: <"SPOqb3.0.8C4.J0PZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3447 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [ On Thu, May 29, 1997 at 16:55:55 (+0930), Greg Watson wrote: ] > Subject: Re: Professional fun and a damper for O/U. > > > Greg Watson says that 4 linked ramps can lift a 12 mm ball, 12 mm in height. > > One ramp can do that. I have achieved 27mm as a max and still get > release. Others have achieved over 50mm. > > > A 12 mm diameter ball weighs about 5 grams so the gravitational energy is: > > > > E = mgh = 0.005*9.8*0.12 = 0.006 Joules. > > > > Given that we have 4 Joules of energy, that means our typical 4 ramp > > SMOT has a lifetime of about 680 lifts to 12 mm in height. After that we have > > to worry about something else as a source of energy. > > I have exceeded that figure by approx 5 times to date with SMOT ramp > testing. The RMOD was much .... much more. I think it's important to measure the lift as the distance the ball falls *after* it has completely exited the field at the end of the last ramp. I'm thinking of this as a complete neophyte here. I'm so far out of touch with physics that the best I'm likely to remember are the basics I learned in high school which were re-inforced through two semesters of undergrad physics about 12 years ago! Anyway if gravity is responsible for pulling the ball out of the field then the the energy gain is the total lift minus the energy necessary to pull the ball out of the field at the end. So if we only calculate the lift to the height where the ball is completely free of the field then any difference can be considered gravy. ;-) The other thing I've not heard anyone talk about is whether there's a difference between the "work" necessary to lift the ball vertically vs. the work necessary to roll it up a low friction ramp. The friction calculation should be fairly simple I'd think -- I'm sure I've seen an experiment that demonstrates the method. However I don't even know if I remember enough to know if there's a difference between the rolling and the lifting work.... Perhaps it can be demonstrated by the size of a dent that can be made by rolling a ball down various inclines of ramp from vertical to nearly none from the same vertical height into a block of some kind of shock absorbing material. These magnetic field simulators should be able to show us where the falling ball is essentially free of the field, and perhaps can help calculate the pull against gravity as it drops out of the field. It would be most interesting to build a sturdy version of a multi-ramp SMOT with the best machined ramp to ensure no variations and lowest friction (perhaps also using the powder filled glass ball instead of an iron one). Then to build a mechanical mechanism that can return the ball from the drop to the start and recycle it. Then run it as long as possible, maybe with the ramp portion alone enclosed in a calorimeter. Has anyone put one of these ramps in a Faraday field cage that's good enough to dampen the earth's magnetic field (if indeed there is such a device)? Just some ideas as the first coffe of the morning kicks in, so don't flame me for being a complete ignoramus! ;-) Of course the RMOD will be the real test.... -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 443-1734 VE3TCP robohack!woods Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 07:44:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA02418; Thu, 29 May 1997 07:43:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 07:43:29 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 10:43:13 -0400 (EDT) From: woods@most.weird.com (Greg A. Woods) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A mundane explanation of SMOTs In-Reply-To: epitaxy@localaccess.com's message of "Thu, May 29, 1997 04:14:50 -0700" regarding "Re: A mundane explanation of SMOTs" id <3.0.32.19970529041432.00ae275c@mail.localaccess.com> References: <3.0.32.19970529041432.00ae275c@mail.localaccess.com> Reply-To: woods@weird.com (Greg A. Woods) X-Mailer: ViewMail (vm) Version 5.96 (beta) with GNU Emacs 19.34.1 (m68k.68881-sun-sunos4.1.1, X toolkit) of Thu Sep 12 1996 on most Organization: Planix, Inc.; Toronto, Ontario; Canada Resent-Message-ID: <"PBDhd3.0.cb.GOPZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3448 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [ On Thu, May 29, 1997 at 04:14:50 (-0700), epitaxy@localaccess.com wrote: ] > Subject: Re: A mundane explanation of SMOTs > > A much more accurate estimate of the travel ling losses of the ball in the > SMOT, could be done empirically by weighing the ball and accelerating it to > a known velocity (i.e. by a sloped release ramp) and than measuring how far > the ball will travel on an absolutely level U channel, before it stops. You can avoid the requirement for a long extremely level channel by using a soft 100% shock-absorbing material that leaves a dent mark where the ball strikes it. If a fresh dent is the same diameter between two different tests then the ball has delivered the same amount of energy. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 443-1734 VE3TCP robohack!woods Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 07:53:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA20918; Thu, 29 May 1997 07:50:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 07:50:45 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 10:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970529104916_642950598@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT v1.02 - Blueprints and Linking method diagram Resent-Message-ID: <"xacXZ1.0.i65.2VPZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3449 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Today, I have put in my web server the detailled schemes of my SMOT V1.02 units which works linked. ( schemes scale = 1 ) Also I have put the WORKING SETUP SCHEME of my linked configuration with all measurements. You will find all these informations at : http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/s102jlnp.htm I think that with these detailled schemes and linking configuration, you will be able to succeed in the SMOTs testing. Overunity yours, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 09:20:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA23205; Thu, 29 May 1997 09:18:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 09:18:44 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 12:18:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970529121759_1822686507@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT 1.02 - Additional info. Resent-Message-ID: <"J96XU3.0.Ug5.ZnQZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3450 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi SMOT'ters, Here some additional informations about my SMOT v1.02 : Steel ball : 12 mm diam. weight = 70 gr Magnets : Ferrite Barium 40 x 25 x 10 mm ( anisotrop ) Energy produced ( BxH ) max : 29.5 kJ/m^3 - 3.7 MGOe Remanence ( Br) : 400 mT - 4000 G Coercitivity ( T=20oC ) : bHc : 160 kA/m - 2000 Oe jHc : 165 kA/m - 2050 Oe Permeability : 1.1 mT/(kA/m) Temp. coef. -0.20% Max operating temp. : 200 oC Density : 4.9 g/cm^3 Curie point : 450 oC You can find this Magnets in FRANCE at : Aimants Goudsmit France Z.I. rue du vert Bois 59535 Neuville en Ferrain Cedex Tel : (33) 03 20 03 60 66 Fax: (33) 03 20 03 59 96 Sincerely, From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 09:48:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA08981; Thu, 29 May 1997 09:46:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 09:46:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705291646.JAA08946@mx2.eskimo.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Ben Tammetta" To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 12:43:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Art Bell WANTS smot-x Reply-to: ben@tammetta.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <338D3410.57A8@microtronics.com.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"Uz6ni.0.EC2.FBRZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3451 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All > > Greg: would a freeby Kit pay off here (in your plan of things/exposure) > > or are we too soon?? This was my thinking a year ago if I ever invented an Over Unity Device, and was able to create a kit. I would present it to Art Bell He loves this kind of stuff, has a great show and huge audience. He would definitely promote it. > > If I present it personally! Long Trip :) He's in Parumpt (sp?, near Las Vegas) Nevada in the US . > Don't know Art Bell, but I would be interested in talking. Greg, you can start by checking out his web page and listen to some of all his archived radio programs on the internet using a RealAudio Player. He's got some great ones. http://www.artbell.com Email or Fax him to tell him what you're doing and have (SMOT kit, OU) And I'm sure he'll be calling you back. The fastest way for you to make any money off the SMOT, and at the same time, put it in the hands of 1000's of people to prove OU, is to turn it into a kit and HAVE ART BELL ADVERTISE IT FOR YOU! 2 birds with one stone :) I guarantee it! :) If nothing else, at least look into it. > By the way, I am a very good public speaker who presents and debates > well. All the better. You'd make a great guest on his show! > Any talk show, lecture circuit offers? Art Bell will most likely give you one. I'm exited about this one!! Sincerely, Ben ben@clubelite.com ############################ # Ben Tammetta # # ben@interactive.ibm.com # ############################ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 10:18:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA04493; Thu, 29 May 1997 10:14:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 10:14:49 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC6C19.217291B0@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: hot SMOT Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 10:14:43 -0700 Encoding: 3 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"yZkvK.0.261.8cRZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3452 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I heated a ball bearing to red-hot with a propane torch, then cooled it slowly. Had to spend some time repolishing it afterwards. This made a small but noticeable improvement in performance. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 13:29:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA19228; Thu, 29 May 1997 13:28:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 13:28:00 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC6C44.DAD688C0@sy-snootles.mdm.mke.execpc.com> From: Hawkeye To: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Cc: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: RE: SMOT QField Sims Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 14:57:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BJj0x2.0.Hi4.GRUZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3453 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: one question about the SMOT. How many ways can you get power off of it? I can only think of two ways. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 15:15:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA10643; Thu, 29 May 1997 15:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:14:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3247E12A.18AB@ats.com.au> References: <199705281242.IAA01902@ns.bluegrass.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 12:10:37 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: SMOT Idea using 1 ramp Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"W9Gp92.0.0c2.f-VZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3454 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts - How about using a tube with a bend in it to kick the ball out *sideways* from between a *vertically* oriented (over-under) magnet array?! No ramp, just a level acceleration for momentum. The crook in the tube forces the issue of the ball exiting the array right where you want it. I haven't tried this yet, I will this afternoon. But if there's good roll-out momentum, then it's just a simple circle route on level ground back to the start. Terry Blanton's powerful stacked magnet array would probably be good with this setup. With enough roll-out momentum... - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 15:27:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA12679; Thu, 29 May 1997 15:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970529152504.00e17db8@inc-g.com> X-Sender: maryc@inc-g.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:25:04 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Mary C." Subject: How does a magnet work? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"tl87R1.0.x53.r9WZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3455 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Gents, Another simple question from the peanut gallery... How does a magnet actually pull iron to it? Does anyone have a simplified explanation of what a magnetic field is? (Or is that a bit like asking "What is gravity? ) Please don't dive into the waters of orthogonal B and E vector fields. Describing the fields is not the question. Rephrased... what is it that is being described? (BTW Greg, your Qfield sims have been Great!) Mary C. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 15:30:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA08809; Thu, 29 May 1997 15:29:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:29:19 -0700 Message-ID: <7luyIEAeYfjzEwYi@oroboros.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:33:18 +0100 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Chris Morriss Subject: Re: A mundane explanation of SMOTs In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 1.11 <5asEvod5709R6741eo9wbh3aEa> Resent-Message-ID: <"z06E1.0.W92.zCWZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3456 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In message , woods@most.weird.com writes >[ On Thu, May 29, 1997 at 04:14:50 (-0700), epitaxy@localaccess.com wrote: ] >> Subject: Re: A mundane explanation of SMOTs >> >> A much more accurate estimate of the travel ling losses of the ball in the >> SMOT, could be done empirically by weighing the ball and accelerating it to >> a known velocity (i.e. by a sloped release ramp) and than measuring how far >> the ball will travel on an absolutely level U channel, before it stops. > >You can avoid the requirement for a long extremely level channel by >using a soft 100% shock-absorbing material that leaves a dent mark where >the ball strikes it. If a fresh dent is the same diameter between two >different tests then the ball has delivered the same amount of energy. > Regarding the drop at the end of the ramp: As the ball climbs the ramp it is gaining linear momentum and also a rotational moment of inertia. Is it the case that the direction of rotation must stay absolutely the same as it falls so that the ball is driven onwards towards the next ramp by the rotation of the ball? I would think that this would be made easier if the drop was controlled by a steep descending ramp rather than a sudden drop with an abrupt change of direction as it hits the foot of the next ascending ramp. If the rotation is important in getting the ball to progress between ramps it may make it difficult to modify the design to a rotary one directly, as the ferro-magnetic moving pieces then are likely to be physically restrained on a 'fairground big-wheel' or equivalent. Just my few pence worth. Bye, -- Chris Morriss From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 15:53:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA17296; Thu, 29 May 1997 15:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338E07C5.15FF@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 08:18:37 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Phase 2 Details Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------310548FF5863" Resent-Message-ID: <"-JIiV3.0.9E4.kXWZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3457 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------310548FF5863 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Attached is a gif showing two treatments that can be used on the exit of the ramp. The simple one I used initially as the "S" curve is difficult to cut using hand tools and I wanted a high initial strike rate on the SMOT Phase 1 devices. All three exits will work : 1) Clean cut off. 2) Clean cut off with a 45 deg lip to shoot the ball into the next ramp. 3) "S" curve designed to give the ball the max kinetic energy into the next ramp. The exit mag fields required are very different for the class 3 exit. With the first 2 exits, the ball could become air borne as it leaves the sharply cut ramp end. If this happens, the ball will be sucked to one side array or the other. To overcome this problem, I developed the idea of using the exit mag wall to slightly push the ball back into the exit rails as it drops. This results in a good exit, but most of the balls kinetic energy has gone into the exit mag wall and very little is available to use in entering the next linked ramp. However its simple and works well. Now onto the real stuff. With the "S" curve exit, things are very different. Here we want to give back as little kinetic energy as possible. The 3mm radius at the top results in the ball seeing a slowly dropping field as it changes direction 90 deg. The top radius varies as the geometry of the ball, rail and mag field contours alter from design to design. If you wish to experiment with the "S", start with 3mm. It seems to be a good middle of the road value. The bottom curve should be larger than the rolling radius of the ball. My rolling radius is 4mm. The rolling radius is the radius the ball actualls roll on. If you try a "S" exit, be aware of the requirement for both the "S" to match exactly, otherwise the ball will be thrown to one side. I used a small round file mounted in a drill press (Wasn't switched on, just moved it up and down) to ensure the file cut was true to both sides. The "S" curve is used in the SMOT kits and they are now machine cut. The use of the "S" curve will take you back to to start in adjusting ramps. You will find in a lot easier to get exits and if you can get a lift of at least twice the balls diameter, you may be able to get a level roll away. Roll aways are not the point of Phase 2. Thats Phase 3. But that will not stop some of you. I have found that if you secure the linked ramps to a stable base (I use 12mm particle board) things will work much better. I use Blu-Tak to hold my ramps down. Seems to work well and still allows adjustment. Remember our goals in Phase 2 are : 1) Build and link at least 4 Smot ramps. 2) Achieve a lift on the last ramp of at least twice the lift of the first ramp. 3) Experiment with angular linking. 4) Play with the ramp exit curve to get the best speed into the next ramp. 5) Be able to get 8-10 balls in transit at once. 6) Report back. 7) Take pictures and videos if you can. 8) Tell as many people as you can. 9) Take a linked ramp setup to your local university. 10) Keep BUILDING and THINKING. Over to you, Greg PS : Web sites, please update your Phase 2 data with the attached drawings. --------------310548FF5863 Content-Type: image/gif; name="smot-phase-2b.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="smot-phase-2b.gif" R0lGODlh9AFMBPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPz8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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<338CF8A9.F1F59EB5@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6E112CBF21A" Resent-Message-ID: <"nketC1.0.z36.ZNXZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3458 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6E112CBF21A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Greg - > > Have you accidently switched the meanings of positions 2 and 3 in your GIF? > > - Rick Monteverde Hi Rick, No. Point 2 is where the equiv entry field is encountered on roll out (after dropping to the entry level) and the ball is sucked back to the exit ramp. Point 3 is where the equiv entry field density is encountered on the way down and the ball continues to fall to the entry level and roll away. Smot ramps can move between class 2 and class 3 with different mag array setups. Its all in the return fields of the arrays. I posted a series of gifs some time ago showing how the "Hole" between two attractive magnets varies with their spacing. Those Gifs are the basis of the way I "Control" the exit field contours in SMOT ramps. 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+0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT QField Sims References: <01BC6C44.DAD688C0@sy-snootles.mdm.mke.execpc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YcBko3.0.Vc5.ROXZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3459 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hawkeye wrote: > > one question about the SMOT. How many ways can you get power off of it? I can only think of two ways. Hi Hawkeye, The RMOD produces torque. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 17:40:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA32340; Thu, 29 May 1997 17:39:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:39:23 -0700 Message-ID: <338E2142.499D@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:07:22 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Smot Phase 2 Contest Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6TnSX2.0.7v7.u6YZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3460 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I will give away a SMOT ramp kit to the first 2 people who can show 4 linked SMOT ramps with a final lift at least 2 times the original and a roll away. Photos required. You now have ALL the necessary info to do this. The gun has sounded, the race has started, the clock is ticking, go for it! Good Building and Linking, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 18:03:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA06408; Thu, 29 May 1997 18:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338E2670.1247@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:29:28 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnets Don't Die References: <338DE458.93E6C61D@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cqZu_3.0.tZ1.ISYZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3461 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Barry - > > > 1. Look like major fool when device is shown to work > > via elementary physics. > > Hey, I bet it does work via elementary physics. Everything else does, why > should this be an exception? You wouldn't look foolish unless you were > assigning the inappropriate or incorrect physics to it. > > I think the #1 reason anyway would be 'it turns out it really doesn't work, > and you spoke publicly before *you* closed the loop.' I'm beginning to > doubt that its turning up non-functional will be the result, but until I > see it myself on my own benchtop, I'm not "speaking publicly" (claiming > myself) that it is an overunity device, it runs for hours longer than can > be accounted for by more or less conventional explanations, that the > magnets don't die out, etc. Greg has pretty much claimed these things > though, and has been open and honest about it all so far. It would be a big > surprise to see a major diversion from that at this point. > > Basically I'm not disagreeing with you very much - I think we should wait a > bit and see lots of closed-loop replications of Greg's design, 100+ hour > runs, no dead magnets - _then_ celebrate (and work hard on our own rotary > designs). > > And we do have to put your challenge about dying magnets firmly behind us > before we can expect to lock up our off-grid homes, jump into our shiny new > 1998 Smotmobiles and hum quietly off into the smog-free sunset. > > - Rick Monteverde Hi Rick, Well it seems we have gone very quickly past a very important point. Seems not too long ago, no one thought that you could get magnets to do work. Period. Impossible. No one has every done it. And so on. I have a whole archive of the stuff. Now that that fairy fail is dead, have we forgotten so quickly where we are now. MAGNETS CAN DO REAL WORK. Smot proves that. That alone is a major change in our view of the physical world. The question I asked some time ago about where the energy is coming from is now on the forefront. I did ask earlier. I don't know, but I know the magnets don't die. Would I have taken you this far as a joke? What I am sharing with you is a REAL device. It works. The magnets don't die. I am concerned as to what we will have to pay the ferryman for the energy. I know you need proof of my "magnet's don't die" claim. Who can rig up a ball dropper for Barry so 2 balls a secong can be dropped into the entry of a SMOT ramp? Who can come up with a solid set of figures for how many balls must pass through a SMOT ramp before a measurable drop in magnet field strength occurs. Hey theory guys, come up with a solid set of data and we will find someone (Jean-Louis) who can rig up a test setup and film it working. Maybe online to the net in real time? Meter showing magnet field strength, counter showing number of balls passing through the single SMOT ramp. Hey, I know they don't die, but what's my word worth? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 18:40:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA13975; Thu, 29 May 1997 18:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970529183803.00b23018@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:38:21 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: hot SMOT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"wuJxm2.0.9Q3.a-YZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3462 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Why the weird improbable explanation ? Ockham's Razor. The heating and slow cooling of a tempered steel used in a bearing ball MAKES IT SOFTER both mechanically and magnetically. Have you ever heated up a knife read-hot and than noticed that it doesn't stay sharp anymore (even if it is sharpened later) !!! Heating and SLOWLY cooling up tempered iron, carbon, nickel based alloys (ie. bearing ball) always makes them softer and increases their magnetic permeability, THIS IS CALLED ANNEALING. Annealing is really easy to notice by using a spring-weight-scale and measuring the pull force on the bearing ball before and after heating (using the same magnet of course) I have been achieving higher SMOT efficiencies by using a glass marble filled with powdered iron (this idea precedes the ""Ball suffering of magnetism!"" post). And NO the iron powder doesn't suffer at all after a lot of trips through the SMOT ramp. To: Dan Quickert If you have the same kind of bearing ball that has not been heated yet, compare the force it takes to separate the unheated ball VERSUS the heated ball from THE SAME magnet. Also notice how much easier it is to dent the heated ball with a hammer. Heating the ball however has a negative side effect on the friction efficiency. Firstly because the smooth surface is oxidized and becomes rough, secondly the mechanical harness decreases and that increases the friction against the U channel. Your observed higher SMOT efficiency comes from the good polishing job you did and the fact that the increased "magnetic softness" outweighs the mechanical friction increase. At 09:24 PM 5/29/97 +0400, you wrote: >Dan Quickert wrote: >> >> I heated a ball bearing to red-hot with a propane torch, then cooled >> it >> slowly. Had to spend some time repolishing it afterwards. This made a >> small >> but noticeable improvement in performance. >> >This is consistent with my observation by the posting >"Ball suffering of magnetism!" at Thu, 29 May 1997 01:53:05 +0400 > >Regards, > >Hamdi Ucar > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 19:03:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA17572; Thu, 29 May 1997 19:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:02:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705300200.WAA07144@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: New image file about SMOT movment. To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:00:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"mqSO22.0.TI4.SKZZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3463 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have created a nice, shiny, new image file about my around-the-earth SMOT idea. Please go to: http://frognet.net/~cantino/smot.html Thanks -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu May 29 23:59:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA26415; Thu, 29 May 1997 23:58:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 23:58:37 -0700 Message-ID: <338E7A2C.1CD5@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:26:44 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A mundane explanation of SMOTs References: <338D2F83.369B@microtronics.com.au> <338E32DE.6C4D@math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eHmUx2.0.NS6.RgdZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3464 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > > There seems to be some confusion over the mechanism > I am postulating for powering the SMOT. Let me clarify. > > I am *not* postulating that the permanent magnets become > demagnetized. I do not see any direct mechanism for > demagnetization (yet). However, it is important to note that > *if* demagnetization could occur, it would only require > a ~ 1 part in 1000 reduction in magnetization to power the > device as observed. (Toy SMOT runs for ~ 1 hour) > > What I am suggesting is the following: when the ball is > introduced into the field, its own magnetic response > nullifies the field energy in its vicinity (this is clearly > shows in the plots of B provided on the SMOT WWW site). > This energy is then available to power the rolling > of the ball against drag and friction (and other losses). > > Accounting for these energies seems to suggest the motion > would persist for ~ 1 hour. To the same degree of accuracy > as the calculations, this is how long Greg said the simple ball-on-track > SMOT would run before stopping. I said it ran for 3 hours and 27 minutes. It stopped because a ramp moved. It started again without problems. > Here are more precise estimates of the energies involved: > > Energy lost by the field due to presence of the ball: > ----------------------------------------------------- > > dE_B= > > (original field energy density)x(volume of depletion zone) > > = B0^2/(2 mu0) x (~ 20 * 10^-3 m)^3 > > B0 = 0.04 Tesla by Gregs field simulations > > = 0.005 Joules > > Kinetic energy of the ball: > --------------------------- > > K = (1/2) m v^2 > > m ~ 10 grams, v ~ 1 cm/sec (estimate---better value?) > > = .5 * 0.01 * 0.01^2 = 5*10^-7 > > or, for arbitrary velocity v, since K scales like v^2 > > K(v) = 5* 10^-7 * v (v in units of cm/sec) > > Gravitational Potential of Ball going up in elevation > ------------------------------------------------------ > > U = m g h = 0.01 kg * 10 m/s^2 * 0.01m (for h = 1 cm = 0.01m) > = 0.001 Joules > = 0.001 * h Joules (in general, if h is in units of cm) > > Losses to air Drag: > -------------- > > P_drag = drag power loss = C A (1/2) rho v^2 > > where A = cross sectional area of ball > = pi (r_ball)^2 = pi (0.006)^2 > = 0.0001 m^2 > rho = density of air = 1.4 kg/m^3 > v = ball velocity ~ 0.01 m/s > C = Drag Coeff > = 24/Re (Re = Reynolds number = 2 r_ball v/ nu_air, > nu_air = kinematic viscosity of air > = 10^-5 m/s^2, > So for r_ball = 0.006, v = 0.01, Re ~ 10, C ~ 2 > (Ref: Batchelor's Book on Fluid Mechanics, page 233) > > => P_drag = 10^-8 Watts > > (or, at arbitrary speed, since P scales like v overall, > > P_drag(v) = 10^-8 * v Watts (v in units of cm/sec) > > Rolling Friction losses: > ------------------------ > > P_fric = power loss to rolling friction > = F . v > where F = rolling friction force = c W, W = weight of > ball = 0.01 kg * 10 m/s^2 = 0.1 Newton, c = coeff of > rolling friction. According to the article on Friction in > Communications in Physics, vol 2, 1961, for polished > metals coefficients of sliding friction are in the range > of 0.3--1.5, and with lubrication (e.g the graphite used > by Greg) this is cut by ~ 10 fold, and coeffients of rolling > friction for hard surfaces are reduced ~ 1000 fold from the > sliding frcition coeff. Thus we can estimate that > c ~ 1 * (1/10) * (1/1000) with lubrication and polished surfaces. > Thus > > P_fric = 10^-4 * 0.1 * 0.01 Watts (at v = 0.01m/s) > > = 10^-7 Watts > > or, for arbitrary v, > > P_fric(v) = 10^-7 * v Watts, (v in units of cm/sec.) > > So, we now note the following: Overall dissipation is > around 10^-7 Watts (need to add in eddy current losses too, really) > while the available free energy is up to ~ 0.005 Joules. > This is enough energy to drive the system for 5 * 10^4 seconds, > which is 15 hours. My RMOD Mark I ran for almost 4 days. I stopped it manually as it was getting tired and noisy. It will still run today. > Thus, even if one assembles the closed loop system and it > goes for ~ 15 hours, there would not really be anything too > amazing, i.e. beyond the amounts of energy seeminly available > to drive such things. Not too amazing, you must be kidding. Where is there another example of a magnet powered device doing actual work! You have stated in the past that this was impossible. Now you seem to be trying to claim the effect is not worthy of further study. Worried about your own research program Barry? > As I said, one check on the above would be to start the ball > at rest from *the position of max field strength*, held there > for a while to let it cancel whatever field it can, so it > cannot gain further energy by diamagnetic cancellation of > the field. > > One extremeley important thing to note is that the Kinetic energy of > the ball is only K = 5*10^-7 v^2 Joules (v in cm/sec)---this is TINY! > We see the magnetic fields are perfectly capable of supplying > 1000 x this much with only a small perturbation of the overall field. > Also, the enrgy associated with the vertical motion of the ball > is U = 0.001 h Joules (h in cm)---this is also modest compared > to the readily available field energy ~ 0.005 J. > > Thus---pay attention here, this is the punch line---the energies > of all the *observed motion* (motion along track, and vertical > elevation)---are all *SMALL* compared to readily available > field energy in the vicinity of the ball. And, the energy > going to the dissipation mechanisms is all small compared to this > out time of ~ 10 hours. > > Thus, I see no reason to expect that it is anything other > than converting the energy from local field nullification > into vertical and horizontal motion of the ball, and the > the dissipative effects don't really impact this for 10's > of hours. A SMOT running for 100-1000 hours would be needed > to counter even my *minimal mechanism above* (it would run > almost forever--10,000 hours---if it were instead somehow > demagnetizing the magnetics, which is not what I suggested!). > > (Or, as Bill B. said, make a SMOT with about 100 x the friction > so that running for 1 hour would be meaningful). > > I think the Mystery of the SMOT is begining to fade rapidly, though > it may remain difficult to pin down the precise, detailed physics of > the magnet-ball interaction. I encourage Greg to devote his > life to this, though, if he so chooses. You are truely, really unreal. Get a real life Barry. > -- > Barry Merriman > Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program > Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math > email: barry@math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 00:32:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA02053; Fri, 30 May 1997 00:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 00:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 00:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705300730.AAA11402@ganymede.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Re: A mundane explanation of SMOTs Resent-Message-ID: <"DP6xl2.0.-V.c9eZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3465 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Barry Merriman wrote: snip >> Thus, I see no reason to expect that it is anything other >> than converting the energy from local field nullification >> into vertical and horizontal motion of the ball... snip >> Barry Merriman >> Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program >> Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math >> email: barry@math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry > Dude.. The local field nullification is totally reversed by the time the ball is clear of the ramp! The above explaination would only be valid if the ball kept moving continously toward the magnets. You've said that you agree that the magnets are not losing magnetic strength. Therefore after a ball has approached, gone through and left a ramp, the magnetic fields will be *identical* to the way they were before the ball came. This is pretty straight forward. Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /********************************************************/ /* I don't think that energy is conserved, but it */ /* doesn't matter if useful over-unity operation works! */ /********************************************************/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 01:45:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA06471; Fri, 30 May 1997 01:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 01:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970530014422.00b187e8@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 01:44:24 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Closed SMOT doesn't perform lift Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HKR6S2.0.0b1.tDfZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3466 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I agree than in a closed SMOT you only should count mechanical & eddy losses, because in a closed SMOT the ball always returns to the same level. It is NOT lifted Higher and Higher !!! At 11:54 PM 5/29/97 -0500, John Logajan wrote: >Carefull about mixing and matching configurations. A closed loop configuration >always returns the ball to the initial starting height. However, a multi- >ramp unclosed configuration could (if sapping the magnetic strength) gobble >up your .0006J per pass. But you'd always have to hand carry the ball. >Once you allow it to "fall" back to the starting point, you are getting back >that .0006J potential energy as kinetic energy (minus friction losses.) > >So I think as Barry has done, you only should count friction type losses >in a closed loop system. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 01:44:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA07106; Fri, 30 May 1997 01:44:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 01:44:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970530014442.00b19a30@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 01:44:44 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: SMOT - Underestimating rolling friction. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"K32C8.0.xk1.cDfZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3467 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I agree that the rolling friction is underestimated. Please notice that IF the U channel was infinitely thin (knife edge) than we would only have rolling friction. With a U channel that is as wide as the ball, we would have only sliding friction. In a practical U channel we have both the sliding and rolling friction, and perhaps a pinching effect as well. I PERFORMED THE FOLLOWING EXPERIMENT: I have bought 2pcs of 12.7mm (0.5inch) wide channels, 914mm (12inch) long. I have configured them in a following way. \ / \ / 1 inch lift, 3 inch long \______________________/ 18 degrees In reality the inclined rams are not so steep. The middle U channel is 914mm long and is level within 0.1mm. The inclined U channels are angled apx. 18deg. [ie. 25.4mm (1inch) for their 76mm (3inch) length measured between the rolling surfaces]. Both U channels are inclined with an accuracy of 0.1mm in respect to the horizontal channel and each other. The joints between the channels are aligned to within 0.05mm A 25.4mm (1inch) bearing ball (FeCNi alloy) is released from the very top of the inclined right channel and falls down 25.4mm (1inch) along the 76mm (3inch) inclined channel . The ball oscillates back and fro and eventually comes to rest after 26 one-way trips through the 914mm horizontal-level channel. I have made 50 trial runs with all ball sizes. The results were repeatable to within 0.5 trips with the 25.4mm ball. The 19mm ball (.75inch) made only 18 one-way trips. (accurate to 0.5 trips) After polishing the aluminum U channel with a pencil graphite. The 25.4mm ball made 34 trips and the 19mm ball made 22 trips, however the accuracy after the graphite polishing went down to 1 trip for both ball sizes. For the sake of "control", I also have tried to release the balls from the left inclined channel. No perceivable differences were observed. Note: the balls are traveling some distance up and down the inclined U channels as well, less and less every oscillation. P.S. Now somebody please do the math of the frictional and air resistance losses. I am too tired for this tonight, but I bet they will be much higher than Barry's figures. Now what about the eddy braking ? At 12:49 AM 5/30/97 -0500, Scott Little wrote: >Barry, I'm actually with you in the Mundane Explanation camp (it's where I >live...). However, I feel that something is wrong with your analysis. >Perhaps you underestimated the rolling friction. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 01:46:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA06695; Fri, 30 May 1997 01:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 01:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970530014511.00b1cacc@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 01:45:12 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: SMOT - eddy current braking Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"EhxzC.0.Se1.sEfZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3468 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, eddy current braking is significant with a bulky bearing ball. A 25mm ball has very little electrical resistance in its volume. Don't underestimate this effect, a 1inch cylindrical NdFeB grade 39 permanent magnet takes 11 seconds to fall vertically inside a 3 foot-long vertical copper pipe (schd40 wall thickness). The eddy current losses are very likely greater than the frictional and air resistance losses. At 02:42 PM 5/30/97 +1000, Martin Sevior wrote: >Barry, > you clearly haven't studied a SMOT ramp in person. There is a lot >of energy dissipated through eddy currents as the ball goes through a ramp >quickly and a lot more when it falls off the end and hits the next rail. > >I've set my ramp up so the ball doesn't fall off the end and let the ball >run into it. On the first rapid pass through the system, the ball gains >about 10 mm in height, then rapidly falls to about 3 mm in about 2 >oscillations. Thus I estimate about > >E = 0.005*9.8*0.007 / 2 = 2*10**-4 Joules lost through Eddy currents >alone. Three orders of magnitude higher than your estimates. I think a >better test of energy consumed is "height gained free of magnetic field". >It's far easier to quantify and still conservative. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 01:53:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA08169; Fri, 30 May 1997 01:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 01:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970530015212.00b1a0ec@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 01:52:13 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: SMOT - Remanent ferromagnetic magnetization Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"FprL-3.0.Y_1.ELfZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3469 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think Barry also proposed that the ball will get progressively magnetized, more and more until the whole SMOT effect dies. (re: remanent ferromagnetic magnetization) So, how much does the ball have to get magnetized before the magnetic field gradient between the SMOT magnets will no longer be able to pull the ball up ? To what degree can an iron or steel ball get magnetized anyway ? (not much apparently or we would be using iron (or steel) to make permanent magnets !) At 12:30 AM 5/30/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Dude.. > The local field nullification is totally reversed by the time >the ball is clear of the ramp! The above explaination would only be >valid if the ball kept moving continously toward the magnets. > >You've said that you agree that the magnets are not losing magnetic >strength. Therefore after a ball has approached, gone through and >left a ramp, the magnetic fields will be *identical* to the way they >were before the ball came. This is pretty straight forward. > > Scott Becker > skot@compumedia.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 05:48:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA22282; Fri, 30 May 1997 05:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 05:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970530173355.212f4a7e@ihug.co.nz> X-Sender: ksmith@ihug.co.nz X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 00:46:11 -1100 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Ken Smith Subject: Re: SMOT v1.02 - Linking questions Resent-Message-ID: <"oy4PQ2.0.2S5.XniZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3470 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Just an update and a few observations and not a few questions. First - what follows is not very scientific - since I am not qualified to spout science stuff. I am a tinkerer and watcher - not a number crunching rocket engineer. OK - I have got 6 ramps, four are carbon copies and two have minor differences. All lift, carry and drop my 22mm balls. I now use 9 magnets a side in a 3 * 3 array, but they are 38 * 10 * 4 ceramics and quite powerful. I use a magnetic side poled magnetic strip as backing and all my attachments are with hot glue. Only the outer edge magnet of the three in each block is glued to the mag strip - the other two are held by their own attraction and can be adjusted - more later on that. Observations 1 : The performance of a solitary ramp is different to that of a linked ramp. 2 : The sideways balance is almost impossible to get exactly right at the point of contruction, but sliding the inner two layers minutely fore and aft will make a big difference to the lateral balance and is a valid method of "centerline control". 3 : You need something to kick the ball forward on the "drop" - either a contoured ramp end (a la Greg) or a small piece of plastic lip or similar glued onto the ramp 1/2 ball radius below the ramp rolling edge. This converts the bounce to a forward shove to engage the next ramp. 4 : Ramps that will not disengage in isolation work well in sequence. This means that you can effectively get more lift out of ramps 2 ..3 ..4 etc than you can from ramp 1. 5 : Sideways balance is absolutely vital. I find moving the whole side assembly too coarse for accurate balance. But sliding a single magnet a fraction will achieve wonders. 6 : Very small variations in side magnet spacing makes a world of difference to the ramp's lifting ability. But the closer the sides are to the ball, the more touchy the side balance adjustment is (obvious really). 7 : I use a slightly curved end edge to my ramps. If the ball will just go there and hang - and not go to either side - I know it will disengage perfectly when linked. I have built a pretty little railway track of 3/16 copper pipe that will do the return journey for me, but the rub is I need 25mm of lift - 30 would be better - to do the return journey. Currently my best ramps give me a 7-9mm improvement in potential on the previous, but I need 10-12 mm to totally disengage so I am looking for 35-40mm of total lift. I have six working ramps, but two of them are real spastics and they get rebuilt tomorrow. If I can get all my ramps performing to equal the best I will get the lift I need tomorrow and then the railway lines are attached. Then we shall see. I cannot see how, as per Greg's contest, I can get progressive improvement from the ramps - all after No 1 seem to be equal. However there are still some aspects to linking that I don't really understand (at all). I have a distinct impression that the balls get warm in use. This is most probably from handling. However a cold ball from the box seems to work better than a warm one. I suspect this is nothing to get excited about and is probably a function of skin oils contaminating the surface and temperature induction from my hands. However it does seem strange. I can certainly not detect any residual magnetism on a ball bearing - even after prolonged use. All these questions will be answered soon though when I can get my six ramps working and avoid the handling problem. Anyone who still thinks this is a fluke should go and get professional advice. When you see the 22mm balls clacking merrily through the ramps and popping out of the end to freedom - with a significant potential improvement - let alone the kinetic extra, then you really have to wonder what is going on here..... Oh it's a flea bite in real terms, but that doesn't matter. I showed the wife the SMOT today (she was moaning as to why I hadn't cut the lawn). I showed her a six ramp lash up, but the exit was obviously well above the entry and there was a positive throw out on the last exit. Her first comment was - "That's not too clever - the magnets are doing the work." - Out of the mouth of babes ...... But I distinctly remember being told that permenant magnets cannot do real work. It defies some law or other . Now that is obviously not true. This I can live with - but what really worries me is that I am starting to wonder what else I was told, as an absolute truth, is also wrong... Ken Ken Smith (ksmith@ihug.co.nz) http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ksmith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 06:09:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA24505; Fri, 30 May 1997 06:03:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 06:03:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338EC951.1FDF@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 22:04:25 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Tool Time Tim References: <338E8DC5.F8C@loc1.tandem.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R_s5M1.0.d-5.C0jZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3471 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Horst wrote: > > Well, I was getting tired of waiting for my magnets to arrive from > Edmund Scientific, so I decided to try the Tim Taylor school of SMOT > design. I figured that what Greg really needed was MORE POWER, Not so Tool Time Tim. Bedford Industry Magnets are not needed here. Design and an understanding of the effects are the keys. > so I > picked up a couple of magnetic tool holders. Each has a pair of foot > long magnets separated by a square iron bar, and each is supposed to > lift 150 lbs. No wimpy fridge magnets here. > > So I built a SMOT with two of these bad boys, and got ready to try it > out. After prying my fingers from between the magnets, I fastened them > more securely to the board. Then, after carefully pointing it away from > the windows, I loaded the .5 inch ball bearing for a test fire. It not the fire in the belly that important here, more mental effort please. > After a few adjustments, I was able to get the ball climb about 9mm, > then drop to another U channel and roll away. But in tilting the other > U channel up, the best I could do was get it to roll up to within 3mm of > its original starting height. I did not polish the rails much or work > on S-curves for the drop at the end, which would improve these results > some. I can get over 30mm with wimpy fridge magnets. Wimps win? > But it looks like there is no clear evidence of OU in this setup. Even > with these big magnets, multiple ramps would be needed to have any > chance of closing the loop. > > Oh well, back to waiting for the Edmund package... > > -- Bob Hi Bob, Good results from bad magnets. Your tool bar are like fridge magnets and have N and S facing magnets into the ramp. You will get some coupling to the ball, but most of the flux goes from one pole to the other. Keep building, Keep thinking! Stop watching Tool Time Tim! Hope this helps, Greg, From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 09:29:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA04199; Fri, 30 May 1997 09:24:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:24:02 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC6CD9.229D2BC0@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: hot SMOT Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:09:09 -0700 Encoding: 26 TEXT, 43 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"_HOsJ3.0.w01.UylZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3473 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: >To: Dan Quickert >If you have the same kind of bearing ball that has not been heated yet, >compare the force it takes to separate the unheated ball VERSUS the heated >ball from THE SAME magnet. Also notice how much easier it is to dent the >heated ball with a hammer. > >Heating the ball however has a negative side effect on the friction >efficiency. Firstly because the smooth surface is oxidized and becomes >rough, secondly the mechanical harness decreases and that increases the >friction against the U channel. Your observed higher SMOT efficiency comes >from the good polishing job you did and the fact that the increased >"magnetic softness" outweighs the mechanical friction increase. > Hi Epitaxy, Right. I was aware of all that. Assumed it was common knowledge what the heating would do to the steel and its magnetic properties. Was trying to keep my message short and to the point :-). Dan begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@H0`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`( $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965N M``D`" `Y``4`1@$!"8 !`"$````T,3-$13@Q,S V1#E$,#$Q0CL"@P!0$P-4`@!C: K FAE M; ,@1&SJ9P*#-!,-?0J ",\)V>([%Y\R-34"@ J!#;'!"V!N9S$P,Q0@"PH+ M%<(,`6,`0"!%<&DA`9!X>2!W`V!T918Z"H<;>B *A2 ^5 QO.A4P`Y%1=6EC M"FL$D'0>QTEF('F%"& @$QP6@;0JQ M(82Y`A!R8R& '* AD&$@$.D$('1O(=!E"K$DP2&3#'5N)*4C,U9%4E-^507P M(:(DI!['(S,#4B#(5$A%!@!!32O0`, 49VX2`"X?($%LQRBZ`_ AH"#*82%!;0> MQQ['OD@DL2+R(:(C,RV192%P[P7 (](Q0"QP9S,1(7$`D/\-L"X0#= %D 5 M`B F5 40?38`:0(@'L<-P1_P")!N)&-Y+*%&:1'@=&SC'. BL&-A=1'P(90$ M8.L=("X`#6 :7HDX0!P*0$/!9$'@1['`V!U9V@L_R>Q M!: B4#C1(:('@!&Q`P#_.2 SX0K +' $$06!%Z CX/\'D3MR(X,+@#]&+WHV MIC$PSS4`"X XL"&352 ^$BQP6FPLH5D(82)P8A'P (F G`5,R)>$$ M8*4#H&LD$'=L"8!G(8"N=TH6)*(B\G<(8&PB8/YD)Z GD2&C'3 5`#MC'*!K M!"!+QW #8' @(0B0<\4LH%3,S)Z#_(! GT"PP'. '@2'@5G%($#\7 M03^T6%1'T N !4 Z+?XI3Y8*A1^1&U\<8!UO"^/_6B$=,#8!"H\+D1+R8$P6 MP0(`93 ````#`! 0``````,`$1 `````0 `',- !'L<3;;P!0 `(,- !'L<3 A;;P!'@`]``$````%````4D4Z( `````#``TT_3<``.!K ` end From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 11:18:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA01464; Fri, 30 May 1997 11:17:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 11:17:23 -0700 Message-ID: <338F4342.2650@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 14:14:42 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A mundane explanation of SMOTs References: <338D2F83.369B@microtronics.com.au> <338E32DE.6C4D@math.ucla.edu> <338E7A2C.1CD5@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DW_4R1.0.jM.ncnZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3474 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > Barry Merriman wrote: > > Thus, even if one assembles the closed loop system and it > > goes for ~ 15 hours, there would not really be anything too > > amazing, i.e. beyond the amounts of energy seeminly available > > to drive such things. > > Not too amazing, you must be kidding. Why must he be kidding Greg? You call this device an over unity toy, while maintaining a guarded stance on the subject of the device actually being over unity? Is it, or is it not over unity? Have you accounted for the energy is placing, then restraining the ball before its allowed to move up the ramp? If it's over unity, drive a load with it, however small. > Where is there another example of a magnet powered device doing actual > work! Well, if I hold two opposed magnets in proximity, and place a weight on one while the other remains fixed, I can release the magnet, and low and behold, the magnet appears to have moved my weight for me. The same is true for springs of course, but this is not what is meant when we say 'magnets cannot do work'. > You have stated in the past that this was impossible. > Now you seem to be trying to claim the effect is not worthy of further > study. Greg, I did not read anywhere in this posting that the device is not worthy of further study, yuour reading this into the posting in my opinion. As you yourself have written, we learn from failures as well as from sucesses. > Worried about your own research program Barry? Cheap shot Greg. Play nice. > > As I said, one check on the above would be to start the ball > > at rest from *the position of max field strength*, held there > > for a while to let it cancel whatever field it can, so it > > cannot gain further energy by diamagnetic cancellation of > > the field. That holding of the ball, thats energy going into the system! So, are we over unity or not? Where are the energy in vs. energy out measurments? > > One extremeley important thing to note is that the Kinetic energy of > > the ball is only K = 5*10^-7 v^2 Joules (v in cm/sec)---this is TINY! > > We see the magnetic fields are perfectly capable of supplying > > 1000 x this much with only a small perturbation of the overall field. > > Also, the enrgy associated with the vertical motion of the ball > > is U = 0.001 h Joules (h in cm)---this is also modest compared > > to the readily available field energy ~ 0.005 J. > > > > Thus---pay attention here, this is the punch line---the energies > > of all the *observed motion* (motion along track, and vertical > > elevation)---are all *SMALL* compared to readily available > > field energy in the vicinity of the ball. And, the energy > > going to the dissipation mechanisms is all small compared to this > > out time of ~ 10 hours. > > > > Thus, I see no reason to expect that it is anything other > > than converting the energy from local field nullification > > into vertical and horizontal motion of the ball, and the > > the dissipative effects don't really impact this for 10's > > of hours. A SMOT running for 100-1000 hours would be needed > > to counter even my *minimal mechanism above* (it would run > > almost forever--10,000 hours---if it were instead somehow > > demagnetizing the magnetics, which is not what I suggested!). > > > > (Or, as Bill B. said, make a SMOT with about 100 x the friction > > so that running for 1 hour would be meaningful). Or drive a small load, of any size! An engine that just overcame internal frixtion, but stalled with a load is useless. > > I think the Mystery of the SMOT is begining to fade rapidly, though > > it may remain difficult to pin down the precise, detailed physics of > > the magnet-ball interaction. I encourage Greg to devote his > > life to this, though, if he so chooses. > > You are truely, really unreal. Get a real life Barry. Get real Greg, over unity or not? By how much? If it's over unity on the balls first pass thrrough the circuit, then the second pass should be a bit quicker still, or we should have some excess energy left to drive a load. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 11:59:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA16522; Fri, 30 May 1997 11:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 11:58:41 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 14:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970530145708_1043325352@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Scale up ramp Resent-Message-ID: <"J1MVS1.0.024.SDoZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3475 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, In theory, could you scale up the ramp to say, a length of five feet long, with a lift of one inch? Then you could use a plastic tube to return the ball. One ramp, one ball, one return path, could it be done ? Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 12:00:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA21864; Fri, 30 May 1997 09:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:03:01 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970530103807_1889616378@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Smot Phase 2 Contest Resent-Message-ID: <"MFUi72.0.xE5.kblZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3472 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 30/05/1997 15:35:24 , you wrote : << I will give away a SMOT ramp kit to the first 2 people who can show 4 linked SMOT ramps with a final lift at least 2 times the original and a roll away. Photos required. >> Wonderfull Greg, a RMOD kit for the winner that is a good idea !! :-) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 15:39:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA29286; Fri, 30 May 1997 15:38:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 15:38:13 -0700 Message-ID: <338F8091.914@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 18:36:17 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Can magnets do work? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7j2n8.0.V97.JRrZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3476 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: After reading a few off the list posts I have received, I thought I might offer this little thought experiment in a bit more detail: Take two mangnets, and fix one to a low friction work surface. Place the other magnet in close proximity, opposing (repelling) the fixed magnet. Release the magent, and watch is slide away from the fixed magnet. Ok, fine, now place a small weight on the sliding magnet, and move in back into opposed proximity to the fixed magnet. Once again, release the magnet, and note that it again slides away from the fixed magnet, usually turning around 180 degrees, and then being drawn back to the fixed magnet. This reversal can easily be prevented by rails or guides of course. But we just moved the weight over a distance, and work WAS clearly done! Was this work done by the magnets? No, not at all! The magnets did no work here. To make this clear, lets try another experiment: Replace the magets with compression springs. One is fixed, while the second is free. First, we bring the springs together along their compression axis and compress them. When released, the free spring flys away from the fixed spring. Next, we place a weight in line with the springs, and compress them. Once released, the weight is moved as the springs release the stored tension. Again, work was done, as our weight was moved over a distance. But in this case it is a bit more clear that the springs stored the energy used to compress them. The springs did not supply the energy used to move the weight. This is the same situation as when the magnets moved apart when released while the free magnet carried the weight. The magnets did not supply the energy used to move the weight, and did not do the work. Now I do realize that these examples are quite different than Greg's device! Lets stop cutting bait, and get on with the fishing: But when we place the ball on the start of the ramp, we are putting energy into the system. We release the ball, adding a bit more energy. The ball goes up the ramp, and gravity returns the ball to the original level, where it finds another ramp. If the ramp added energy to the ball, it should travel up the second identical ramp a bit faster than it had before. After a few circuits through the ramps, it should be moving quite quickly if each trip up the ramp actually added energy to the motion of the ball. This added velocity could in theory be used to drive an external load of some kind. (by flux cutting, etc.) But if the ball moves up the ramps at a constant speed on each circuit through the ramps, where is our energy gain from the magnets 'doing work'? It would be quite a conincidence if the frictional and other losses were always equal to the energy gain, resulting in a contant average ball velocity. Such a coincidence would be far more remarkable in light of the different materials and methods used to build Greg's ramps. It would also mean that the device was NOT over unity, but operating right at unity (1:1). This would preclude driving an external load of course. If it's over unity, it MUST deliver this 'excess' energy to an external load, not dissapate it on internal losses. So, in Greg's ramps, are the magnets doing the work of moving the ball up the ramp, or are they translating the input energy into the balls motion? In a closed loop device, is there any evidence of the balls gaining net velocity over time on each circuit through the system? If I place a load, however small, on the balls motion, can I extract this energy that some claim is being supplied by the magnets? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 16:14:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA06121; Fri, 30 May 1997 16:12:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:12:58 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC6D14.5291C670@ristra.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Can magnets do work? Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:12:49 -0700 Encoding: 48 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"0FC8m1.0.NV1.vxrZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3477 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: [snipped - a nice experiment with opposing poles , magnet-as-spring analogy] OK, Bob, what about this: You're walking on a flat plain, carrying a large steel ball, say 1" diameter, in your pocket. You encounter a large object that's on the ground several meters away, and feel a strange attraction to it . It turns out to be a huge NIB magnet, a meter in diameter. Taking the ball out of your pocket, you struggle to restrain its movement toward the magnet. You place the ball on the ground, still restraining it. You let go. The ball races toward the magnet, hits it hard, puts a large chip in the surface, and sticks there rather permanently. Who/what did the work of moving that ball from you to the magnet? and [snip] >Now I do realize that these examples are quite different than Greg's >device! Lets stop cutting bait, and get on with the fishing: > >But when we place the ball on the start of the ramp, we are putting >energy into the system. We release the ball, adding a bit more energy. [snip] Huh? How does releasing the ball add energy? [snip] >After a few circuits through the ramps, it should be moving >quite quickly if each trip up the ramp actually added energy to the >motion of the ball. [snip] There is a limit to the resultant velocity in any given ramp. At some point the ramp will actually attenuate the incoming velocity. [snip] >If it's over unity, it MUST deliver this 'excess' energy to an external >load, not dissapate it on internal losses. [snip] How about placing a microphone near the ramp, and collecting the energy produced by the sound waves as the ball rumbles by? ;-) Dan Quickert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 16:26:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA09600; Fri, 30 May 1997 16:24:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:24:50 -0700 Message-ID: <338F6149.7D97@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 08:52:49 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Smot Testing and Mods Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X70N3.0.iL2._6sZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3478 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Well it is good to see so much real work and thought being done. One word of caution. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE build your first two SMOT ramps like the plans I have provided. They work and will link. I guarantee it! There are MANY design choices and variables I had to go through to get the device to work. Your first SMOT ramp is NOT the place or time for you to do this. When you get the ramps to link and you see for yourself that they work, THEN go and do it any way you want. Greg Watson's SMOT Rules of Testing and Development : 1) Duplicate MY design. 2) Test MY design. 3) Report on how My design works. 4) Build YOUR design. 5) Report on how YOUR design works. Please guys, do it this way. Really its the only way to progress the work. Anything else will lead to claims, cross claims and we will all be drawn off the point. And the point is : BUILD SMOT RAMPS AS PER MY DESIGN AND VERIFY THEY WORK AS CLAIMED. Best Regards and Good Building, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 16:38:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA05863; Fri, 30 May 1997 16:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:37:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705302336.TAA25426@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: SMOT works like this: To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 19:36:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"d6j8P3.0.VR1.uIsZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3479 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: When you think about it, there is only one place that the SMOT could get it's energy from: the Earth. The magnets pull the ball up, the Earth's gravity pulls it down, the magnets pull it up, ... YOu get the idea. I think that this might EVEN cover a continues loop. Just remember, this is slowing down the earth! Run it for 6 billion years and the earth might loss half a second (: Let me know what you think. Andrew -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 16:42:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA17168; Fri, 30 May 1997 16:41:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:41:48 -0700 Message-ID: <338F6546.7786@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 09:09:50 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can magnets do work? References: <338F8091.914@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lKxQN3.0._B4.uMsZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3480 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > After reading a few off the list posts I have received, I thought I > might offer this little thought experiment in a bit more detail: > > Take two mangnets, and fix one to a low friction work surface. > > Place the other magnet in close proximity, opposing (repelling) the > fixed magnet. Release the magent, and watch is slide away from the > fixed magnet. > > Ok, fine, now place a small weight on the sliding magnet, and move in > back into opposed proximity to the fixed magnet. > > Once again, release the magnet, and note that it again slides away from > the fixed magnet, usually turning around 180 degrees, and then being > drawn back to the fixed magnet. > > This reversal can easily be prevented by rails or guides of course. > > But we just moved the weight over a distance, and work WAS clearly done! > > Was this work done by the magnets? No, not at all! The magnets did no > work here. To make this clear, lets try another experiment: > > Replace the magets with compression springs. One is fixed, while the > second is free. > > First, we bring the springs together along their compression axis and > compress them. When released, the free spring flys away from the fixed > spring. Next, we place a weight in line with the springs, and compress > them. Once released, the weight is moved as the springs release the > stored tension. > > Again, work was done, as our weight was moved over a distance. > > But in this case it is a bit more clear that the springs stored the > energy used to compress them. The springs did not supply the energy > used to move the weight. > > This is the same situation as when the magnets moved apart when released > while the free magnet carried the weight. The magnets did not supply > the energy used to move the weight, and did not do the work. > > Now I do realize that these examples are quite different than Greg's > device! Lets stop cutting bait, and get on with the fishing: They have nothing at all to do with the physics that drives a SMO ramp! > But when we place the ball on the start of the ramp, we are putting > energy into the system. We release the ball, adding a bit more energy. NO ............. a thousand times NO. Bob, have you actually built a SMOT ramp? When you do so, you will see that this ststement is incorrect. > The ball goes up the ramp, and gravity returns the ball to the original > level, where it finds another ramp. If the ramp added energy to the > ball, it should travel up the second identical ramp a bit faster than it > had before. After a few circuits through the ramps, it should be moving > quite quickly if each trip up the ramp actually added energy to the > motion of the ball. Only if the added energy was greater than the frictional losses. If you build a SMOT ramp and play with the adjustments, you will learn that most of the energy gain in the ramp is lost in using the mag wall at the end of the ramp to push the ball back into the exit rails. Others will verify this. Using a sharp drop off, the SMOT ramps are sort of self regulating. The improved Phase 2 ramps with their "S" curved exits are another thing again. With these, we can actually hang onto more of the balls energy. Please Bob, before you say any more, BUILD 2 SMOT RAMPS. Then comment. > This added velocity could in theory be used to drive an external load of > some kind. (by flux cutting, etc.) > > But if the ball moves up the ramps at a constant speed on each circuit > through the ramps, where is our energy gain from the magnets 'doing > work'? > > It would be quite a conincidence if the frictional and other losses were > always equal to the energy gain, resulting in a contant average ball > velocity. Such a coincidence would be far more remarkable in light of > the different materials and methods used to build Greg's ramps. It > would also mean that the device was NOT over unity, but operating right > at unity (1:1). This would preclude driving an external load of course. As I said before, the way I designed the exit in the easy to build Phase 1 design makes the ramps sort of self regulating. Don't believe me? BUILD a Phase 1 SMOT ramp and see for yourself! > > If it's over unity, it MUST deliver this 'excess' energy to an external > load, not dissapate it on internal losses. > > So, in Greg's ramps, are the magnets doing the work of moving the ball > up the ramp, or are they translating the input energy into the balls > motion? Answer the question yourself. Build a SMOT ramp. > In a closed loop device, is there any evidence of the balls gaining net > velocity over time on each circuit through the system? If I place a > load, however small, on the balls motion, can I extract this energy that > some claim is being supplied by the magnets? Hi Bob, Build a SMOT ramp before you go on further. They REALLY do work. The Phase 1 design is self regulating. Honest! My Very Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 16:45:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA18344; Fri, 30 May 1997 16:45:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:45:12 -0700 From: "Science wig. sig." Message-Id: <199705302345.TAA26073@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: For god's sake, what is a magnet? To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (science) Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 19:45:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"4A5kq3.0.VU4.7QsZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3481 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Can someone PLEASE tell all of us laymen what a magnet really is. What is doing the pulling? With gravity it is (probably) the gravatron. It there a magnetron? What!? -- +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ | Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | | Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | | ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | | ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 16:49:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA08013; Fri, 30 May 1997 16:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338F6658.4394@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 09:14:24 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A mundane explanation of SMOTs References: <338D2F83.369B@microtronics.com.au> <338E32DE.6C4D@math.ucla.edu> <338E7A2C.1CD5@microtronics.com.au> <338F5D57.38BE@math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cGKZ_3.0.py1.1SsZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3482 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > > Where is there another example of a magnet powered device doing > > actual work! > > Take refrigerator magnet. Hold 0.5 cm from refrigerator. Release. > Magnet leaps to stick to fridge. Work was done. QED. > Do you think no one has ever noticed this capability before? > > > You have stated in the past that this was impossible. > > I stated no such thing. Refer to above. It is painfully > obvious that magnets can do work on things. In particular, > they atract/repel other magnets, so work is done. > > > Worried about your own research program Barry? > > Yes Greg. Your magnetic perpetual motion machine really > has me shook up. I'm resigning my position to start a > worm farm. :-) Why, we need you here. Barry, just build a ramp and PLAY with it. > -- > Barry Merriman Hi Barry, Build a ramp and play with it. You might learn something. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 17:22:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA28785; Fri, 30 May 1997 17:21:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:21:55 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970530172154.00af3c80@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:21:55 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Can magnets do work? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"q0WUs1.0.g17.XysZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3483 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: NO COINCIDENCE AT ALL. C'mon. It is quite obvious that the ball will reach certain TERMINAL VELOCITY because the eddy current braking and air resistance increase with speed. Soooo... since the losses are dependent on speed, they will very quickly reach an equilibrium. Just like a skydiver who reaches 160 miles per hour and does not accelerate any faster although the gravity is pulling on him with the same force as in the beginning. If it wasn't for this simple relationship the ball would go faster and faster and faster.................. At 06:36 PM 5/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >It would be quite a conincidence if the frictional and other losses were >always equal to the energy gain, resulting in a contant average ball >velocity. Such a coincidence would be far more remarkable in light of >the different materials and methods used to build Greg's ramps. It >would also mean that the device was NOT over unity, but operating right >at unity (1:1). This would preclude driving an external load of course. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 17:31:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA14579; Fri, 30 May 1997 17:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970530172804.00af5284@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:28:08 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: SMOT works like this: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"M_O5F3.0.cZ3.63tZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3484 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think that Greg's next stage device, the RMOD, is NOT utilizing gravity and would work in gravityless environment. Right Greg ? At 07:36 PM 5/30/97 -0400, you wrote: >When you think about it, there is only one place that the SMOT could get >it's energy from: the Earth. The magnets pull the ball up, the Earth's >gravity pulls it down, the magnets pull it up, ... > >YOu get the idea. I think that this might EVEN cover a continues loop. >Just remember, this is slowing down the earth! Run it for 6 billion years >and the earth might loss half a second (: > >Let me know what you think. > >Andrew > > >-- >+-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ >| Free Stuff page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html | >| Science page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/ | >+----------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| | >| "Nothing Unreal Exists" - Kir-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics | >| ** Information is power, use it wisely. ** | >| ** No matter where you go, there you are. ** | >| | >+----------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 17:39:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA01238; Fri, 30 May 1997 17:38:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:38:23 -0700 Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:38:15 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can magnets do work? In-Reply-To: <338F6546.7786@microtronics.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GxVVO.0.EJ.-BtZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3485 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 31 May 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > > The ball goes up the ramp, and gravity returns the ball to the original > > level, where it finds another ramp. If the ramp added energy to the > > ball, it should travel up the second identical ramp a bit faster than it > > had before. After a few circuits through the ramps, it should be moving > > quite quickly if each trip up the ramp actually added energy to the > > motion of the ball. > > Only if the added energy was greater than the frictional losses. Yes. And besides "rolling friction" and inductive braking, there is also demagnetization/remagnetization loss in the steel of the ball (also called hysterisis loss.) My gut feel is that this path for energy loss is greater than inductive braking. Shifting the permanent magnetization of the steel ball will slow the ball and heat it. One way to reduce hysterisis loss: don't use steel, use a ferromag material which cannot be permanently magnetized. Pure iron for example. I've heard that steel with extremely high carbon content is similar. I believe that the alloys used in transformer laminations are optimized for reduced hysterisis loss. However, perhaps the o/u effect involves hysterisis in the ball, and a pure iron ball actually will not run in closed-loop mode. > If you build a SMOT ramp and play with the adjustments, you will learn > that most of the energy gain in the ramp is lost in using the mag wall > at the end of the ramp to push the ball back into the exit rails. > Others will verify this. This is interesting. Why should this be? Since fields are conservative, the ball should "bounce off" the exit field, and any slowing that occurs should produce a speedup in a later part of the ball's trajectory. That is, unless there is a big dollop of hysterisis loss because of the nonlinear fields magnetizing the steel ball. > > It would be quite a conincidence if the frictional and other losses were > > always equal to the energy gain, resulting in a contant average ball > > velocity. I have to disagree. Physical systems with low power and high friction will accelerate only up to a speed where frictional loss is equal to excess energy input rate. If friction was constant, then the rate of energy loss increases with increasing speed. The system will "magically" find the special speed where power loss equals power input. (Imagine a wind-up toy boat driving across a bathtub; it doesn't speed up and up, instead it immediately settles to a constant speed.) In Greg's device, the average speed should remain constant, but if the s-curves are added, a new, higher speed is attained. If the rails are then polished, yet a higher speed results. If friction could be reduced by orders of magnitude (needle-bearing disk spinning in a vacuum?), the ball speed might be very very high. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 18:09:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA20836; Fri, 30 May 1997 18:03:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 18:03:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970530180231.00af1fb8@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 18:02:33 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: SMOT - Underestimating rolling friction. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"b-rno2.0.P55.JZtZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3486 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My 1inch ball weighs 66.1 grams, the .75inch ball weighs 27.9 grams. Pretty close to your estimate. I should have included these numbers originally. My little math yields similar results. The 66.1gram ball at the height of 25.4mm represents 0.0164 Joules of potential energy. In the unlubricated case the ball makes 26 one-way trips through the horizontal channel (914mm each trip) so the total traveled distance is apx. 24 meters. It can be safely said that 24meter of the U channel dissipates 0.0164 Joules of energy with 1inch ball. In other words 1 Joule of energy should propel the 1inch ball for 1449 meters (almost a mile) At 05:31 PM 5/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >Epitaxy wrote: >> >> rolling friction is underestimated. >> > >I agree. Actually, its not rolling friction that is underestimated, >since I used the real numbers for such things. Its just that the >real system can also slide, etc. I was considering the most >ideal system, as a starting point. Also, rolling in a channel >may differ from rolling on a plane...friction is slightly complicated. > >> Now somebody please do the math of the frictional and air resistance >> losses. > >Well, if you put the ball through a 1 = 2.5 cm inch drop, >you ball weighs about 60 grams (assuming 7 gm/cc) so it has an energy of >m g h = 0.06 10 0.025 = 0.015 Joules. The initial velocity is >( 3/10 of the energy is in rotational kinetic energy) >(1 + 3/10) 1/2 m v^2 = 0.015 J => v = SQRT(0.015/(0.65 * 0.06)) = .6 > >=> v = 60 cm/sec. (initially, of course) > >Since you said the ball went about 34 feet = 10 m before coming to >rest (polished and lubed case), the duration must have been >on the order of 10 m/ 0.6m/s ~ 20 seconds. > >You can ignore the air resistance losses, I showed (and the formulas >for that were from well known experiment/theory) The power loss >was like 4*10^-8 v Watts, so here it is 2*10^-6 Watts, and during >the ~ 20 second rund thius would dissipate about 0.0001 J = 1% of the >energy. > >So, we can get the effective coefficient of friction from > >F.distance = Energy >and >F = mu_eff m g (mu = coeff of fric) > >=> > >mu_eff = E/(d m g) > = 0.0015 J/ ( 10 m * 0.06kg * 10 m/s^2) > = 0.0015/(6) > > = 0.0025 > >This is pretty in line with standard theory, actually, which >said rolling is ~1000 less than sliding. We did not get the >10 x benefit from the lubrication, though---only a 50% improvement. > >However: Note this is just the effective friciton of your >test set up, which is probably not pure rolling, esp due to your >side ramps. This number would also be consistent with sliding >0.1% of the time with mu ~ 1 (say when it hit the sides) and >a rolling friction coeff that is 0.0001 (the figure I used) >the rest of the time. So its tricky to tell what frictional >mode is dominant. > >The moral I want everyone to take away from this is: measure >the friction of your track system experimentally (without >the magnets present) to get some baseline. But note the >presence of the magnets can *also* change the frictional losses, >if it changes the proportions of rolling and sliding motion---which >is very likely. > >> >> Now what about the eddy braking ? >> > >Probably important. A bit tricky to estimate---but why don't >you just measure it on your same track setup by placing magnets. > >-- >Barry Merriman >Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program >Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math >email: barry@math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 18:57:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA28982; Fri, 30 May 1997 18:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 18:55:40 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 21:54:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970530215358_-961267548@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Fwd: So much going on, I don't know were to start! Resent-Message-ID: <"VYySi1.0.l47.GKuZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3487 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: So much going on, I don't know were to start! Date: 97-05-30 21:34:40 EDT From: HLafonte To: sunbrite@mymail.net Mike, The developments of the last month with this device of Greg's has been what a lot of people have been waiting many years for as you already know. I don't know of a device that has ever made a magnet do work in cycle fashion. Over the years people have said if anyone would be able to get a magnet to do work then the magnet would lose it magnetism. The other school of thought is that the magnet would not lose it magnetism and the energy for the work done would come from a source we still don't understand the true nature of. Well the answer people have been waiting hundred's of years for it about to be told. The machine that can make a magnet do work in a continious fashion is here and now it's time to find out if a whole new area of physics is about to open up or if the magnets just lose their strength and roll over and die. If they do then there are going to be a lot of broken hearts out there and hundrend's of years of work done in everything from high tech labs, to late nights at the kitchen table, has all been done in vain. Their is one more possibilty, that is that the magnets do lose their strength, but in the process do more work than the amount of work done to magnetize the magnet material. Now that would be strange, it would be like going to get your magnets recharged ( like the gas station ) and then getting more energy out of the magnets than you put in at the charger, but never knowing where the extra energy is coming from! The device I built is, I believe one of a million different ways to build these ou devices using Gregs v shape. A rotary configuration is, I believe the easy way to get work out of it, but the hardest to build by an individual. I will put pictures on the list of my first proof of concept of Greg's device when I can figure out how to do it. I've only been using computers 15 years now, so bear with me! I have drawn a rotary layout I'll put on also. I asked Greg about scaling up the ramp to 5 feet long with just a one inch lift and a plastic tube to return the ball. I haven't heard from him though. Draw some angles for one inch lift at one foot, and five foot, ramp lengths, and see the difference in force required to pull the ball up the ramp. The one foot angle at a five foot lenght would lift to 7.5 inches! Let me know what you think, Butch LaFonte, Birmingham, Alabama USA From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 19:32:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA32447; Fri, 30 May 1997 19:31:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 19:31:46 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 22:31:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970530223105_1375870919@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Question? Very important question! Resent-Message-ID: <"CMxdt1.0.ow7.GsuZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3488 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, I have a book by Lester R, Moskowitz called, Permanent Magnet Design and Application Handbook. He states that one of the first things that a person who is handling permanent magnets for the first time ask's is, when they pull two magnets apart they pull each other back together again and if they do this sequence over and over again the magnets don't lose any strength and they ask where does the energy come from to keep them pulling each other back together again? He says it should be quite clear to them what is going on. When they let the magnets pull each other together the magnets do work and a certain amout of the magnets energy is reduced. What they don't see going on is, that when they pull the magnets apart they do work on the magnets and restore that lost energy back to the magnets. If this is not so, then every time we pull two magnets apart we are increasing the total energy of the magnets and if we were to do this a million times then the magnets would be so full of energy they would be about to " burst at the seams". What scares me is if what he says is true then every time you got the magnets to do work, then to maintain the original energy level of the magnets, you would half to return that work in total to the magnets and if any of that work was done external of the system, and not returned to the system in full, then the total energy of the magnets drops. Please tell me this is not so and why! Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 21:06:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA16686; Fri, 30 May 1997 21:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 21:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338F9C30.2C12@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 13:04:08 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: neotech@xbn.shore.net, newman-l@emachine.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Kits and SMOT Phases update (31st May, 1997) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EwMeB2.0.a44.VCwZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3489 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Here are the updated SMOT Kit and SMOT Phases details : ******************** Price : $150 Australian Dollars via International Bank Cheque made payable to Greg Watson Consulting. ~ 115 US Dollars, 70 UK Pounds, 660 French Francs, 158 Canadian Dollars, 3975 Belgium Francs, 195 German Marks, 13200 Japanese Yen, 165 New Zealand Dollars, 875 Swedish Krona, 192000 Italian Lira 1350 Austrian Schillings 160 Swish Francs Please remit funds via an International Bank Cheque in Australian Dollars. ******************** Where to send for your SMOT Kit : Greg Watson Consulting, 8 Brabham Grove, Aberfolye Park, 5159, South Australia, Australia. Contact Details : Home / Business / PC Fax .......... 61 8 8270 2737 E-Mail ............................ gwatson@microtronics.com.au ******************** What you will get for your $150 dollars : 4 x Heat formed perspex bases (Numbered, dated and signed my me), 4 x Linking ramps with "S" curve exits, 1 x Linking ramp with 90 deg exit (Rollaway / Rollaround use), 8 x Assembled Magnet Arrays, 4 x Steel Balls, 8 x Dress Making Pins, 1 x Instruction Manual, 1 x Frameable "Certificate of Authenticity", 1 x Photo of ME with the 4 linked SMOT ramps, The SMOT kits are "Exec Desk" Quality. One kit will produce 4 "Exec Desk" Toys. ******************** Delivery : Via international postal air mail. ******************** My Personal Guarantee : Assuming that the ramps are placed on a flat level surface, I Greg Watson personal guarantee that : 1) The 4 SMOT ramps will work as individual ramps. A ball statring at rest will climb the ramp and drop out. start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm, (Ramp 1) >>>>>>> This is Phase 1 of SMOT development and testing. 2) The 4 SMOT ramps will link and deliver a ball starting at rest to the end of the 4th linked ramp and drop out. start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm, (Ramp 1) start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm, (Ramp 2) start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm, (Ramp 3) start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm. (Ramp 4) >>>>>>> This is Phase 2 of SMOT development and testing. If your SMOT kit can't do this, I will refund your money. ******************** Additional claims : Depending on your skill in adjusting the ramps and their linking, you should expect to achieve the following : 1) That the 4 linked ramps can be placed on a base board that will elevate the ramps at an angle and achieve a final ramp height at least twice the original height. The use of a board allows gradual increase of the ramp heights while you learn to power up the ramps. start at 0mm, climb to 15mm, drop to 3mm, (Ramp 1) start at 3mm, climb to 18mm, drop to 6mm, (Ramp 2) start at 6mm, climb to 21mm, drop to 9mm, (Ramp 3) start at 9mm, climb to 24mm, drop to 0mm. (Ramp 4) >>>>>> This is Phase 3 of SMOT development and testing. 2) That with the tilted linking achieved, the ball on exiting the final ramp will fall to the entry level and roll away from the ramp assemblies (staying at the entry level). (This is the first OU claim). >>>>>> This is Phase 4 of SMOT development and testing. 3) That with the rollaway achieved, a rollaround using plastic tubing will allow the ball to return to the start. (This is the second OU claim) >>>>>> This is Phase 5 of SMOT development and testing. 4) That with the rollaround achieved, the ball will re-enter the first ramp and repeat the process. (This is the third OU claim) >>>>>> This is Phase 6 and final stage of SMOT development and testing. ******************** I can't guarantee that YOU will achieve all of the above. To do so will depend on how good you get in adjusting the magnets. Many others will support my claim that getting the adjustments right can require hours of fiddling or minutes. It all depends on how much you understand the dynamics of the ramps. The more you play, the more you understand and the adjustments become second nature. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Web sites who display this offer for at least 3 months will receive a FREE SMOT Kit. If you have already purchased a SMOT kit, I will refund your money. I will have photos of the finished SMOT kits available with-in a week. Best Regards, Good Smoting to all, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 21:25:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA19270; Fri, 30 May 1997 21:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 21:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338FA731.30AD@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 13:51:05 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can magnets do work? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aFoKp1.0.yi4.YVwZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3490 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > > On Sat, 31 May 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > > > Bob Shannon wrote: > > > The ball goes up the ramp, and gravity returns the ball to the original > > > level, where it finds another ramp. If the ramp added energy to the > > > ball, it should travel up the second identical ramp a bit faster than it > > > had before. After a few circuits through the ramps, it should be moving > > > quite quickly if each trip up the ramp actually added energy to the > > > motion of the ball. > > > > Only if the added energy was greater than the frictional losses. > > Yes. And besides "rolling friction" and inductive braking, there is also > demagnetization/remagnetization loss in the steel of the ball (also called > hysterisis loss.) My gut feel is that this path for energy loss is greater > than inductive braking. Shifting the permanent magnetization of the steel > ball will slow the ball and heat it. One way to reduce hysterisis loss: > don't use steel, use a ferromag material which cannot be permanently > magnetized. Pure iron for example. I've heard that steel with extremely > high carbon content is similar. I believe that the alloys used in > transformer laminations are optimized for reduced hysterisis loss. > However, perhaps the o/u effect involves hysterisis in the ball, and a > pure iron ball actually will not run in closed-loop mode. > > > If you build a SMOT ramp and play with the adjustments, you will learn > > that most of the energy gain in the ramp is lost in using the mag wall > > at the end of the ramp to push the ball back into the exit rails. > > Others will verify this. > > This is interesting. Why should this be? Since fields are conservative, > the ball should "bounce off" the exit field, and any slowing that occurs > should produce a speedup in a later part of the ball's trajectory. That > is, unless there is a big dollop of hysterisis loss because of the > nonlinear fields magnetizing the steel ball. The bounce off the exit field pushes the ball back into the now near vertical exit rails, otherwise the ball would be sucked to one of the mag arrays. With a 90 deg exit rail (easy to make for Phase 1), as the ball exits, it can become airborne and be quickly pulled sideways. If you slide the arrays up the ramp you will see this happen. If you pull them down, you will see the mag "bounce back" wall. Somewhere in between is the exit point. This exit characteristics acts like a speed limiter and regulates the max exit speed you can obtain to a very low value. The "S" curved exit changes that and allows the ball to retain more of its kinetic energy. But the design becomes more complicated and the magnets need different adjustments. > > > It would be quite a conincidence if the frictional and other losses were > > > always equal to the energy gain, resulting in a contant average ball > > > velocity. > > I have to disagree. Physical systems with low power and high friction > will accelerate only up to a speed where frictional loss is equal to > excess energy input rate. If friction was constant, then the rate of > energy loss increases with increasing speed. The system will "magically" > find the special speed where power loss equals power input. (Imagine a > wind-up toy boat driving across a bathtub; it doesn't speed up and up, > instead it immediately settles to a constant speed.) > > In Greg's device, the average speed should remain constant, but if the > s-curves are added, a new, higher speed is attained. If the rails are > then polished, yet a higher speed results. If friction could be reduced > by orders of magnitude (needle-bearing disk spinning in a vacuum?), the > ball speed might be very very high. > > .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. > William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 > EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ > Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 21:32:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA17162; Fri, 30 May 1997 21:28:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 21:28:16 -0700 Message-ID: <338FA805.6B64@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 13:54:37 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT works like this: References: <3.0.32.19970530172804.00af5284@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"d-8KU.0.2C4.VZwZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3491 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > I think that Greg's next stage device, the RMOD, is NOT utilizing gravity > and would work in gravityless environment. > > Right Greg ? Hi Epitaxy, RMOD Mark I ..... Gravity needed. RMOD Mark II .... Gravity NOT needed. (Still sims and theory, but looking good and powerfull) Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 21:41:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA21127; Fri, 30 May 1997 21:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 21:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338FAAFB.5D16@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 14:07:15 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A mundane explanation of SMOTs References: <199705310000.UAA27226@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"b0CFF3.0.u95.okwZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3492 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Science wig. sig. wrote: > > > > > Barry Merriman wrote: > > > > > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Where is there another example of a magnet powered device doing > > > > actual work! > > > > > > Take refrigerator magnet. Hold 0.5 cm from refrigerator. Release. > > > Magnet leaps to stick to fridge. Work was done. QED. > > > Do you think no one has ever noticed this capability before? > > > > > > > You have stated in the past that this was impossible. > > > > > > I stated no such thing. Refer to above. It is painfully > > > obvious that magnets can do work on things. In particular, > > > they atract/repel other magnets, so work is done. > > > > > > > Worried about your own research program Barry? > > > > > > Yes Greg. Your magnetic perpetual motion machine really > > > has me shook up. I'm resigning my position to start a > > > worm farm. :-) > > > > Why, we need you here. > > > > Barry, just build a ramp and PLAY with it. > > > > > -- > > > Barry Merriman > > > > Hi Barry, > > > > Build a ramp and play with it. > > > > You might learn something. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > Greg > > > > > Greg, > Way don't you help try and explain your great idea. You don't need to > jump on other people, just help us figure out where the energy is coming > from. I only get annoyed at folks that make statements about the SMOT device and they have never even built one. If you want to shoot it apart, thats fine, but first build one. Only seems fair, right? > It may not seem importaint to you, but there is no such thing is > FREE ENERGY. It is VERY important to me. I want to know how much I will have to pay the ferryman before I use his boat or energy. Reread my posts for the last few months. This concern has always been on the agenda. > It may seem free to us, but it has to come from somewhere. > No something for nothing in physics. It may come from Earth's gravity, as > I stated earlyer, it may come from some unknown source, but it is not > coming out of thin air. I agree. There are NO free lunches. > Andrew I have asked that same question many times. I am concerned to know where the energy is comming from. > P.s. Oh, and i'm getting the parts for this project on Saturday so don't just > tell me to build one. I am glad. If you have any problems, ask me. > I'm not saying you have not found anything here, > infact I think this may be a huge find. I think it should be quite > posable to make a loop. I just want to know where the energy is coming > from, that's all. > P.P.s Oh, do you have a list of all that parts you need to build this? > It would make my life easyer... -- Most of the web site with SMOT details have that info, some are : http://oscar.clubelite.com:8888/smot/ http://home.worldonline.nl/~catware/ http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm > +-----Andrew Cantino---------xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu---------------------+ Hi Andrew, Hope this helps. And I am really a very nice person. Best Regards and good Building, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 22:21:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA26237; Fri, 30 May 1997 22:19:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 22:19:57 -0700 Message-ID: <338FB485.52B6@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 14:47:57 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Design and Adjustment Hints References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uFpBy2.0.sP6.yJxZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3493 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Chris - > > > I've switched to 19*50*6mm (poles on large faces) > > [snip] > > > The ball is about 13mm > > Right off I'd say your magnets are too wide for the ball. Same problem > here. Single ramps work well, but linking doesn't. I'm waiting for a > shipment of small magnets to arrive. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI Hi Rick, You are right. The magnet height should be smaller than the balls diameter. Also the centre line of the magnets should be above the ball by about a mm or so. This helps to reduce rolling losses. Put the ball above the centre line of the magnets and you can HEAR the increases frictional losses. So here are some SMOT design guidelines : 1) Your magnet height should be around 75% of the lift you are trying to get. 2) Your ball should be 10-25% bigger than the magnet height. 3) Shorter ramps and mag arrays work better than longer setups. This is because the mag differential across the ball is greater for shorter ramps than long ones assuming that the entry and exit differentials remain the same. 4) Your ramp should be 13-15mm shorted than the mag array lengths. 5) Powerfull magnets don't make things better, they can actually cause problems. 6) Remember to back the mag arrays with a steel strip at least 3mm thick. Any thinner and the strip may saturate. 7) A 3mm radius on the top of the exit rail will assist exits and help to retain more of the balls kinetic energy. If you use a radiused exit, you will find that the magnets can be slid up the ramp to reduce losses in the mag "bounce back" wall at the end of the ramp. 8) The linking notch filed under the ramps end will allow inter ramp linking distance to be varied. This becomes important when we use radiused exits and slide the arrays up the ramp. Sliding the arrays up alters the takeoff point on entry and the adjustable linking notch allows for closer linking to compensate for the movement of the takeoff point. 9) Back plate linking can also assist. This is done by using a short bit of the backing strip and applying it to the ends of the magnet arrays. This increases the field in the ramp by providing a return path for some of the flux. 10) The cenrte line of the magnets should be 1 or 2mm above the centre line of the ball. This helps to reduce rolling friction and noise. To high and the ball will be difficult to keep on the centre line and will be sucked to one of the mag arrays. Hope these hints help to reduce some of the SMOT mystery. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri May 30 23:35:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA00124; Fri, 30 May 1997 23:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 23:34:01 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 02:32:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970531023239_843734192@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT project dedicated web page Resent-Message-ID: <"tdKBk2.0.l1.LPyZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3494 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HI Greg, Due to the success of the SMOT project, I have created a dedicted web page, you may access now directly to the SMOT project at : http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/smotidx.htm Overunity yours, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 00:27:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA03559; Sat, 31 May 1997 00:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 00:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 00:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705310725.AAA11866@ganymede.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Re: Can magnets do work? Resent-Message-ID: <"8raRB3.0.Wt.gAzZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3495 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Beaty wrote: >Pure iron for example. I've heard that steel with extremely >high carbon content is similar. I believe that the alloys used in >transformer laminations are optimized for reduced hysterisis loss. >However, perhaps the o/u effect involves hysterisis in the ball, and a >pure iron ball actually will not run in closed-loop mode. > I can't find the message but someone who linked two ramps said they used a glass ball filled with iron powder and it worked great. >> If you build a SMOT ramp and play with the adjustments, you will learn >> that most of the energy gain in the ramp is lost in using the mag wall >> at the end of the ramp to push the ball back into the exit rails. >> Others will verify this. > >This is interesting. Why should this be? Since fields are conservative, >the ball should "bounce off" the exit field, and any slowing that occurs >should produce a speedup in a later part of the ball's trajectory. To the contrary, the slow down *is* an "opposite reaction" to the energy gained by the ball going up the ramp. The reason the closed loop SMOT is overunity is because the ball doesn't hang at the top of the ramp like it should ( fields being conserved and all ). This is why there is so much interest in the field sims of the ball dropping from the ramp. >> > It would be quite a conincidence if the frictional and other losses were >> > always equal to the energy gain, resulting in a contant average ball >> > velocity. > >I have to disagree. Physical systems with low power and high friction >will accelerate only up to a speed where frictional loss is equal to >excess energy input rate. If friction was constant, then the rate of >energy loss increases with increasing speed. The system will "magically" >find the special speed where power loss equals power input. (Imagine a >wind-up toy boat driving across a bathtub; it doesn't speed up and up, >instead it immediately settles to a constant speed.) Good call. I agree. Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /********************************************************/ /* I don't think that energy is conserved, but it */ /* doesn't matter if useful over-unity operation works! */ /********************************************************/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 00:32:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA03601; Sat, 31 May 1997 00:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 00:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 00:25:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705310725.AAA11870@ganymede.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Re: For god's sake, what is a magnet? Resent-Message-ID: <"LL_KH2.0.Au.qAzZp"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3496 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Andrew Wrote >Can someone PLEASE tell all of us laymen what a magnet really is. What is >doing the pulling? With gravity it is (probably) the gravatron. It there >a magnetron? What!? Ok Andrew, hold on to your hat, are you ready? I'm gonna tell you the truth, right now. WE DON'T KNOW. That's why we have all this debate. By not knowing what a magnetic field really is, none of us can prove anything about it. All we know is how it acts. The traditional view of how a magnet acts is summed up by two characteristics: 1 Every field has two poles of equal and opposite strength. 2 The work done by two magnets as they pull together is equal and opposite to the work needed to pull them back apart. The reason that the SMOT is over-unity is because the symmetry of the work done and the work un-done has been broken. The ball gets more kinetic energy from the magnets than it looses back to the magnets, it is not symmetrical ( equal and opposite ). The answer to the question, "Where the energy is coming from?", can not be answered conclusively until we understand exactly what a magnetic field is. And yes, one of the theories is a "Magnetron". I used to think that energy is not conserved. Now I don't know. The energy may be coming from ZPE, aether or some other thing that we haven't even theorized about yet. Or an the other hand it may actually be coming out of *no-where*. This however is quite unlikely, and to agree with the majority of people throughout history, defys common sense. However my previous firm belief that evergy is not conserved has been turned into a firm belief that the "Conservation of Energy" law as held by Newtonion Physics is wrong. You can build a device to do useful work that doesn't use fuel. Newtonion Physics says you can't. The closed loop SMOT proves my belief that you can. This does not, however, mean that energy is not conserved. The explaination of where the energy is coming from can probably be found in "Quantum Physics", as it is developed more. By the way, I find it amazing that the criteria for "Over-Unity proof" for a hundred years has now suddenly changed. The SMOT device ( Phase 4 - four curved linked ramps with ball running continously ) has the following characteristics: No batteries. No fuel cells. No heavy, high speed flywheels. No chemical reactions. No input energy. It is an "Over-Unity Device". By the way, saying that the act of "letting go of the ball" is adding energy to the system is just like saying: "The effort expended to lift the knob on the light switch has caused the hundred watt bulb to put out more than a hundred watts." Farewell "Newtonion Physics"... Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /********************************************************/ /* I don't think that energy is conserved, but it */ /* doesn't matter if useful over-unity operation works! */ /********************************************************/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 03:22:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA08090; Sat, 31 May 1997 01:03:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 01:03:13 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 04:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970531040137_843742083@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, hamdix@verisoft.com.tr Subject: Re : My magnets sizes are same as Naudin's Resent-Message-ID: <"F2faU1.0.J-1._izZp"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3497 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 31/05/1997 03:36:28 , hamdix@verisoft.com.tr (Hamdi Ucar) wrote : << Hi, I have difficulties on working on one ramp and linking. My new magnets sizes are 25 x 40 x 10 (N-S=10). Magnets are very strong and this is point where the problem start. I could not open the aperture between magnets more to loose the exit because I need at least 25 mm to climb. On even optimum position ball weight is enough to fall down. It is 17 mm diameter bearing ball. It was easier to working with the flexible magnets. I strongly recommend again Greg's specs. But it is too late for me. >> Hi Hamdi, I have used a 25mm steel ball ( weight = 70 gr ), have you seen my complete scheme V1.02 of my setup. I suggest you to visit again my SMOT web page at : http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/smotidx.htm Check for the correct slope, the gap between magnets and the most important, the V angle between the magnets ramps. Look at again the QuickField simultation... The steel ball climb along the "magnetic neutral zone", convert magnetic energy into gravitic potential energy, and fall down just when the ball reach a "3 Dimensional neutral zone (vertical/horizontal ( magnetic, gravitic, time frame) )". I give you a very usefull tips to adjust the V shape of the magnets and the positionning of the Aluminium ramp : - replace your actual U shaped alum ramp, with a longer ramp, the normal fall down point must be replaced by the longer ramp. - put your steel ball at the theorical "fall down" point, if your V shape is correct and your estimated "fall down" point is the good one, the steel ball must be stay in equilibrium...... Check this....and play with the ball at this "3D point in the neutral zone", you will be able to understand the secret of the SMOT device..... I think that this tips will help you to adjust properly your mag.ramp. If you want more details or more pictures about the SMOT linking I can send it to you later.... SMOTy yours, From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 03:47:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA03881; Sat, 31 May 1997 03:47:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 03:47:20 -0700 Message-ID: <338FE2C1.30B0@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 18:05:13 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Art Bell WANTS smot-x References: <338DE458.93E6C61D@verisoft.com.tr> <338FB054.70B0@skypoint.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kYWJX3.0.My.t60ap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3498 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Logajan wrote: > > Rick Monteverde wrote: > > After the SMOT runs down, we have a phunny ball situation. It's not the > > magnets that go bad, it's the ball! What exactly is it about this 'used' > > ball that's different from a 'fresh' ball? Can I refresh depleted balls > > somehow? Do I just have to wait about two hours? I can't help but > > conclude you may mean that the ball has become magnetized. > > I think you've put your finger on a testable explanation. > > As Chris Tinsley has suggested, non-magnetized iron is really just > a horde of randomly aligned magnetic domains -- in a net higher energy > state. > > Therefore placing an un-magentized iron ball in the device is to put > a higher energy state object in the fields of the rail magnets. > > Since Chris suggests that these rail magnets cannot become de-magnetized > without energy being added, by reverse logic, the ball cannot become > magnetized without giving up energy. > > I believe Merriman, Sevoir and others have calculated that there is > quite a bit of delta energy in a magnetized versus unmagnetized > object. Therefore the ball actually has a good bit of energy to > give up (it only has to overcome the rolling friction losses etc). > > Two reasons why the ball may increasingly become magnetized -- it > is moving through varying (but not reversing) fields, and it keeps > getting periodic physical jolts as it drops from the ramp exits. > It has long been known that taping a metal object in a magnetic > field helps accelerate the object's magnetization (it knocks > the domains loose, if you will.) The rolling ball will encounter varying field curls and the domains will constantly be moving around. The bigger the ratio of ball diameter to magnet height, the bigger the domain movement will be. > This hypothesis suggests that balls do indeed get tired -- tired to > the extent that they get magnetized. Therefore if this conjecture > is true, the balls must eventually roll to a stop. They don't stop. > -- > - John Logajan -- jlogajan@skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - Hi John, I actually keep my spare balls stuck to a large ring magnet. I have not noticed any residual magnetism, but will check. Epitaxy's glass ferrite ball is very different. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 03:47:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA03948; Sat, 31 May 1997 03:47:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 03:47:27 -0700 Message-ID: <338FE54F.3ECC@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 18:16:07 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Question? Very important question! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"em8AW3.0.Xz.-60ap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3499 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Butch (I think) wrote: > > > What scares me is if what he says is true > > then every time you got the magnets to do > > work, then to maintain the original energy > > level of the magnets, you would half to > > return that work in total to the magnets and > > if any of that work was done external of the > > system, and not returned to the system in > > full, then the total energy of the magnets > > drops. > > Please tell me this is not so and why! > > Here's the wild-eyed free-energy believer reason why this works: fist of > all, it is so, but...it seems that you can take momentum (energy) from the > magnetic field of a spinning charge, apparently leaving it momentarily > "depleted" in some way. But that depletion is not really possible, so > immediately the lack is made up by the charge by dipping into the ZPF or > something for the difference. I support "ZPE" as the energy source. I view the ramps as if the magnet arrays were electromagnets. If that were so, we could "see" the input current varing as the balls moved and all would say "See the moving balls are drawing power from the input current supply". No Ou, just normal current to mag field to mechanical work conversion. Nothing new here. But now, because we are using "Permanent Magents", we can't "SEE" the current driving the magnets field, but its still there. Its the moving electrical charges called electrons flowing around the irom atoms in the "Permanent Magnets". Hals ZPE resupplying the electrons sounds right to me. > That's the idea, anyway. I don't know if it's true. Haven't heard a better > explanation yet - except maybe that you really *can't* get energy from > permanent magnets. But that doesn't appear to fit the SMOT situation, does > it. > > - Rick Monteverde Hi Rick, I favor Hal's ZPE theory. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 03:48:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA04059; Sat, 31 May 1997 03:47:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 03:47:40 -0700 Message-ID: <33900147.1ACF@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 20:15:27 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: JayCar Electronics (SMOT Magnets) References: <338DE458.93E6C61D@verisoft.com.tr> <338E2670.1247@microtronics.com.au> <338E4E8D.5FB2@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_GxtS1.0.9_.970ap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3500 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave DeLeo wrote: > > Greg, > > Can you please send me the phone number of JayCar Electronics. > > The number I have 61 2 2743 6144 doesn't go through, I get a message to > dial 61 29 then the local number. (61 29 2743 6144) That number is not > JayCar. I would appreciate it if you could look up the number for me. > I can't find any suitable magnets localy so I figured I'll just order > them. > > Thank You > Dave DeLeo Hi Dave, Sorry for the confusion, we (Aust) are changing our phone numbering to 8 digits. JayCar's data is as follows : JayCar ELectronics, PO Box 185, Concord NSW, 2137, Australia. 61 2 9743 6144 (Phone) 61 2 9743 2066 (Fax) Hope this helps, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 04:01:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA16492; Sat, 31 May 1997 03:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 03:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338FE721.2BD8@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 18:23:53 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My magnets sizes are same as Naudin's References: <338F3741.213CAB7E@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0zC3o3.0.I14.l90ap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3502 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hamdi Ucar wrote: > > Hi, > > I have difficulties on working on one ramp and linking. My new magnets > sizes are 25 x 40 x 10 (N-S=10). Magnets are very strong and this is > point where the problem start. I have pointed out before that strong magnets are NOT an advantage in SMOT ramps. > I could not open the aperture between > magnets more to loose the exit because I need at least 25 mm to climb. > On even optimum position ball weight is enough to fall down. It is 17 mm > diameter bearing ball. It was easier to working with the flexible > magnets. I strongly recommend again Greg's specs. But it is too late for > me. Try shorter ramps, they work better than long ramps. More differential across the ball. Try it, it might help. > By the I found an other style to stack the magnets and it show very > interesting effect on accelerating the ball. I will not to describe it > at this moment for not disturbing the concentration of the team. > > Regards, > > Hamdi Ucar Hi Hamdi, Send me more info in private and I will help you to get linking working. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 04:01:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA16404; Sat, 31 May 1997 03:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 03:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338FDFC5.2D15@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 17:52:29 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Barry's explanation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UuUUX3.0.C04.a90ap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3501 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > > On 30 May 1997, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > > To you, maybe, but I bet no other reader in this forum agrees. As far as I > > can tell, from my meager knowledge of physics, you are proposing a gross > > violation of c. of e. That's no "mechanism"! I admit there might be a c. of > > e. violation, assuming the thing actually goes for days, but I would not call > > that a "mechanism" and it sure as hell isn't plain as day! It is another way > > of saying I have not got the foggiest idea what could be happening. > > Unless I'm totally confused, Barry seems to be saying that: > > - when the ball is released at one particular point in the system, > strong magnetic forces launch it violently forward. There is a > one-time initial kick involved here. While there is a strong inward pull at the opening of the ramp, the rest of the ramp's magnets do assist the ball in its upward path. I can release the ball about 10-15mm down from the exit and get the ball to transit through the rest of the 4 linked SMOT ramps. At 10-15mm down from the exit, the pull up the ramp is very gently as it is driven by the differential mag fields across the ball. > - the friction around the whole loop is *extremely* low, > > - net forward force around the loop then is zero, and the ball > essentially drifts around the loop for 100's of seconds because of the > tiny friction. Eventually it should slow enough to hang up at > one particular place. > > But if the ball rolls at constant average speed, and does NOT slow down > continously, then his explanation is wrong. The ball doesn't slow as it goes through the linked ramps. > Or, if the ball is instead > released at a "worst case" point in the loop, then the "launching" forces > will be minimal and the ball will be launched gently rather than > violently, and if it THEN speeds up to a higher average speed and > maintains this speed, his explanation is wrong. > > Interesting note: I originally imagined that the ball must lose all its > accumulated K.E. as it falls over a dropoff and bounces off the next rail. With the 90 deg exits, that is right! As many will tell you it goes "Click" > If so, and if the ball then continues to move, it must be an anomalous > event. Not so! Since the top of the previous rail pulls upwards on the > ball as it falls, energy is therefor stored in the magnetic field and the > ball is lowered gently. Energy is put back as the ball is drawn upwards > along the next slope. With perfect adjustment, the ball might touch down > onto the next rail at zero velocity and lose no K.E. at all. No "click" > sound. Therefore the net friction around the whole loop might be very low > after all, it might be nearly equivalent to a perfectly flat circular > track having no magnets! Weird! I have never seen a ball at exit, gently lowered to the entry of the next ramp. They go "Click" quite loudly. > William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 Hi Bill, Seems you still haven't built a SMOT ramp yet. Your Wierd Science Page got me into this. Could say that you are the Grand Father of SMOT. You at least owe me to build a ramp and play. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 04:02:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA16839; Sat, 31 May 1997 03:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 03:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338FE622.4D61@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 18:19:38 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scale up ramp References: <970530145708_1043325352@emout14.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qpO_f.0.y64.IA0ap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3503 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Greg, > In theory, could you scale up the ramp to say, a length of five feet long, > with a lift of one inch? Then you could use a plastic tube to return the > ball. One ramp, one ball, one return path, could it be done ? > Butch LaFonte Hi Butch, Long ramps don't work as well as short ramps. See my earlier theory on this. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 04:14:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA08600; Sat, 31 May 1997 04:13:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 04:13:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3390033E.6DF@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 20:23:50 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: SMOT Design and Adjustment Hints] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"sW-zx3.0.862.jV0ap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3504 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Received: from orion.Localaccess.com (Orion.localaccess.com [206.64.48.2]) by orca.microtronics.com.au (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA19734 for ; Sat, 31 May 1997 16:29:15 +0930 (CST) Received: from orion.Localaccess.com by orion.Localaccess.com (NTMail 3.02.11) with ESMTP id da739755 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 23:59:05 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970530235929.00b07e70@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 23:59:30 -0700 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: SMOT Design and Adjustment Hints Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Amen. I can attest to this ! With NdFeB grade 39 magnets the "neutral line" balancing is very and I mean very hard to accomplish. Don't even try it without polycarbonate or plexiglass bases, very strong epoxy resin and precisely threaded adjustment screws. At 02:47 PM 5/31/97 +0930, you wrote: > > 5) Powerfull magnets don't make things better, they can actually > cause problems. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 04:30:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA00378; Sat, 31 May 1997 04:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 04:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33900775.4252@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 20:41:49 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT - residual magnetization References: <3397ca98.26448983@mail.eisa.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OB5eq.0.k5.ka0ap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3505 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > If the ball is slowly becoming magnetised, then it will also have a > tendency to keep the same poles toward the magnets time after time. > It might be interesting to paint an N and an S on the ball (stop it > during one of its hikes up the ramp), and see if it maintains its > orientation over many tours of the circuit. > At the moment, only Greg would appear to be in a position to do this. > > Robin van Spaandonk Hi Robin, I looked at that very early in the development cycle. While there seemed to be some linking of ball position, I believe it was more related to frictional costs in moving the ball sideways. By the way, circular ramps are much more lossy than straight ramps. One side of the ball is always sliding. Curved ramps work, but they are a bitch (sorry ladies no insult intended). They eat energy. As I mentioned before, the ball moves through fields of different curl. The domains are always moving. The RMOD is very different to the SMOT. The balls DO NOT move (rotate) as they return. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 04:49:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA09503; Sat, 31 May 1997 04:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 04:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33900C94.5A9@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 21:03:40 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT bank account details References: <338F9C30.2C12@microtronics.com.au> <338FE366.4D77@loc1.tandem.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8_9sm.0.OK2.8u0ap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3506 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Horst wrote: > > Greg -- > > I was wondering if there is a Western Union office near you. If so, we > can call Western Union at a toll-free number, give them a credit card > number, and have them wire you the money for the kits. It would be much > easier for us, you would get your money faster, and we would get the > kits faster. Direct TT is faster and better. > By the way, I got my new magnets and built the first ramp. Dimensions > are now close to yours, but with five more powerful magnets on each side > of the ramp in single rows. The magnets are 5/8 x 13/16 x 1/2, 5 oz > pull, 20 for $10, Edmund Scientific part number T53,556. > > I get about 17mm lift with one ramp and a 3/4 inch ball. To link the > ramps, it looks close. The magnets are 5/8 inch (16mm) high, giving me > about a mm to spare. Have not yet attempted linking them yet because the > fields are so strong I am not sure how I will anchor the magnets. You could have problems, that why I suggest max magnet height of 75% of lift heigth. Seem to work ok. > -- Bob Hi Bob and others, You can send money directly to my bank account. My bank (ANZ) charges me $10 Aust to process the TT : If you wish to remit funds via TT please send $160 Australian Dollars to : Acount Name : Mr. and Mrs. GO Watson, Account Number : 015-035 5774-67879 Bank : Australian and New Zealand Banking Group Ltd., (ANZ) 201 Victoria Square, Adelaide, 5001, South Australia, Australia. Advise request : Please advise Greg Watson on 8270 2737 of senders details. As banks sometimes get things wrong, please advise me when you send a TT. Hope this helps, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 04:56:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA12309; Sat, 31 May 1997 04:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 04:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33900DDF.7B41@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 21:09:11 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT works like this: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H0UQg3.0.E03.X-0ap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3507 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > >Epitaxy wrote: > >> > >> I think that Greg's next stage device, the RMOD, is NOT utilizing gravity > >> and would work in gravityless environment. > >> > >> Right Greg ? > > > >Hi Epitaxy, > > > >RMOD Mark I ..... Gravity needed. > > > >RMOD Mark II .... Gravity NOT needed. > > (Still sims and theory, but looking good and powerfull) > > > > > >Best Regards, > > Greg > > What is RMOD Mark II? First I recall hearing of it. Did I miss something > while I was gone? Would't be anything like what I wrote about in "Closing > the Hartman device loop" would it? > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner Hi Horace, No. I mentioned a new RMOD device some time ago. How are the house modification going? Any spare time to build a SMOT ramp? Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 05:10:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA14623; Sat, 31 May 1997 05:10:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 05:10:35 -0700 Message-ID: <33901369.39B6@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 14:02:49 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Homepage Update Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"d2zbN.0.Ja3.uK1ap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3508 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Homepage Updated http://home.worldonline.nl/~catware/index.html -- Ronald. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 05:25:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA15977; Sat, 31 May 1997 05:24:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 05:24:44 -0700 Message-ID: <3390113F.398D@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 21:23:35 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hartman 4,215,330, SMOT, etc. not public domain? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ntvF51.0.Pv3.AY1ap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3509 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > It appears it is a critical issue as to whether the renewal fees on the > Hartman patent 4,215,330 have been paid up. If so, then the intellectual > property is not public domain, as the patent expires Jul.29, 2000. > > I say this primarily because of claim 12, an independent claim that appears > to have a very broad coverage, especially of the things discussed here on > vortex: > > "12. In a permanent magnet propulsion system the combination of: a pair of > tracks; and a row of permanent magnets mounted directly outboard from each > of said tracks with all north seeking poles of the magnets of one of said > rows being adjacent one of said tracks and all south seeking poles of the > magnets of the other of said tracks being adjacent to the other said > tracks." > > Any two inventions falling within the same set of claims are the same > invention. To fall outside the scope of existing claims any new claims > have to be proven non-obvious to one who is skilled in the art. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner Hi Horace, If you remember when I started the SMOT discussion I clearly said the device was based on the patent 4,215,330. I encouraged people to read and review the patent. I provided links to the IBM patent server. I am not trying to take anything away from Hartman. BUT the Simple Magnetic Ou Toy is not the Hartman patent. There are several major innovations and improvements some of which are unique to SMOT : 1) The way the ball magnetically exits is different. 2) The way the differential field is achieved and constructed is different. 3) The way the entry and exit fields are adjusted is different. One adjustment, NOT forty or more. And they all track. Adjusting the Hartman device would be very difficult 4) The use of the steel backing plate is new and unique. The SMOT (as designed) will not work without the backing plate. Horace, I am not trying to take anything away from Hartman, only take his work to the next level. Read my earlier posts, most of my earlier corro referenced Hartman. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 05:30:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA28276; Sat, 31 May 1997 05:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 05:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33901812.47A0@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 21:52:42 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT now in 6 Phases and linked to the SMOT kits Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gjUwa2.0.bv6.zY1ap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3510 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Due to the use of the SMOT kit, I have modified the Phases as follows : 1) Single SMOT ramp construction. 2) Linking of 4 SMOT ramps on a level surface. 3) Achieving an increase of final lift height from 12mm to 24mm by mounting the 4 linked ramp on a board and lifting one end slowly up by 12mm. 4) Achieving a roll away. (First real proof of Ou) 5) Achieving a roll around of the ball back to the start. (Second real proof of Ou) 6) Achieving a repeat of 5. (Third real proof of Ou) Can we all agree on the above AND can we ALL accept Phases 4 - 6 as proof of Ou. We NEED real mile posts to work to. I will provide the STANDARD kits. Others will provide the sleepless nights getting every closer to the mile posts and feeling like a million dollars as they pass and see them in the rear vision mirror. But we need mile posts EVERYONE will accept. Can we get them? They should NOT be set by me. I should only suggest. They should link to the reality of the SMOT kits and many replicators of varying skills in many places around our shrinking planet. They should not be mile posts that can only be achieved or measured in someones lab, but instead on someones kitchen table by human eyes and hands. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 07:10:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA25250; Sat, 31 May 1997 07:09:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 07:09:41 -0700 Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 09:12:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970531090908.3c8743b2@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: TEETER TOTTER Resent-Message-ID: <"FZTCT1.0.RA6.a43ap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3511 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello All, No I haven't built the smot yet.Using my minds eye and videos at this time. But... looking at JLN's web page. I wonder if the first phase assembly/unit was placed so the whole assembly was evenly balanced on a pivot (like childrens teeter toter)( two kids on a ramp bouncing back and forth to keep the cycle going) so when the ball is over the half way point that the ramp and magnets tilt further giving added acceleration/momentum to the ball and then when it drops off the end the ramp and magents will telt back. Now will the added momentum be enough to get the ball back around to the begining. I mention this to possiblem help shorten the added phases. just thoughts.... Mike Slivinski sunbrite@mymail.net http://www.myhomepage.net/~sunbrite/ God helps those, that help themselves... so they may help others! MCS From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 08:32:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA04755; Sat, 31 May 1997 08:31:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 08:31:56 -0700 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Cc: vortex-L@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:21:15 PST Subject: Why SMOT is O/U Message-ID: <19970321.082117.12526.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-23 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"OlG-S.0.6A1.eH4ap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3512 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Fellow Pioneers, The Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy is a free energy machine and a real perpetual motion machine of the 2nd kind !! Why ? Can you think of a single example of an energy source that does not have some element that goes from a higher potential energy to a lower potential ? What part of a closed loop SMOT is doing this ? If some of the ferromagnets where settling into a lower energy state I think it would become obvious very quickly. The precisely adjusted SMOT would quit very quickly, not run for hours as Greg Watson has demonstrated. I doubt it would even make more than one loop ! It is interesting that this idea of "magnets running down" was used to attempt to explain away the inventions of both Wesley Gary and Hans Coler. Rather than try to explain away this amazing phenomena, try making one a SMOT ramp they are easy to make and fun ! They make great toys for older kids. Tim Vaughan (tv@juno.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 08:50:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA09198 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 31 May 1997 08:50:09 -0700 Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 08:50:09 -0700 X-Envelope-From: stevenj@paonline.com Sat May 31 08:50:08 1997 Received: from ftp.paonline.com (ftp.paonline.com [198.69.90.11]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA09165 for ; Sat, 31 May 1997 08:50:05 -0700 Received: from MAILER-DAEMON@ftp.paonline.com ([207.44.25.167]) by ftp.paonline.com with SMTP (IPAD 1.52) id 3477200 ; Sat, 31 May 1997 11:51:41 -0400 Message-ID: <339048B4.7879@paonline.com> Old-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 11:50:12 -0400 From: Judson Smales X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Hydraulic Overunity Devices Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Hi everybody! This is my first time to address this list but I'm a long time listener. I think I've got enough information together to develop a hydraulic overunity device but I'd like to know of other people out there that might have experimented in this area. I've looked at the clem.asc along with other items. If anybody can help me or is interested in what I've found, send me a line. stevenj@paonline.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 09:16:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA12523; Sat, 31 May 1997 09:15:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 09:15:45 -0700 Message-ID: <33904BDA.3F4A@paonline.com> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 12:03:38 -0400 From: Judson Smales X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Hydraulic overunity device Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ip0FN3.0.a33.nw4ap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3513 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi everybody! This is my first time to address this list but I'm a long time listener. I think I've got enough information together to develop a hydraulic overunity device but I'd like to know of other people out there that might have experimented in this area. I've looked at the clem.asc along with other items. If anybody can help me or is interested in what I've found, send me a line. judson.smales@paonline.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 10:25:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA03580; Sat, 31 May 1997 10:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 10:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 13:23:19 -0400 (EDT) From: woods@most.weird.com (Greg A. Woods) To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT now in 6 Phases and linked to the SMOT kits In-Reply-To: Greg Watson's message of "Sat, May 31, 1997 21:52:42 +0930" regarding "SMOT now in 6 Phases and linked to the SMOT kits" id <33901812.47A0@microtronics.com.au> References: <33901812.47A0@microtronics.com.au> Reply-To: woods@weird.com (Greg A. Woods) X-Mailer: ViewMail (vm) Version 5.96 (beta) with GNU Emacs 19.34.1 (m68k.68881-sun-sunos4.1.1, X toolkit) of Thu Sep 12 1996 on most Organization: Planix, Inc.; Toronto, Ontario; Canada Resent-Message-ID: <"koi4H1.0.nt.3x5ap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3514 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [ On Sat, May 31, 1997 at 21:52:42 (+0930), Greg Watson wrote: ] > Subject: SMOT now in 6 Phases and linked to the SMOT kits > > Can we all agree on the above AND can we ALL accept Phases 4 - 6 as > proof of Ou. No theory can be proved only by experiments that demonstrate the desired effect. The theory should also suggest experiments that would demonstrate a failure of the effect. We need to include an experiment that would will succeed only if the effect is not present. In order to get to that point I and others have suggested measuring the friction loss of the ball rolling on the track, and I've also suggested measuring the energy of a falling ball as compared to one rolling down a ramp from the same vertical height. These combined experiments should show if indeed the magnets are imparting any energy to the ball that cannot be explained with gravity alone. (What I had in mind for the shock absorbing material that would allow an easy measurement of the energy expended by stopping the ball was that dense green foam florists use for flower arrangements. It has little or no elasticity and the diameter of the mark made by the impacting ball should provide an easy to compare measurement (assuming a relatively constant density). A series of such marks made by dropping a ball in a low vacum column from various heights should make the translation of dent diameter to Joules fairly easy.) BTW, I'm currently forced to stick to the "thinker" mode as I'm extremely busy at my daytime work that currently extends to any and all hours.... -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 443-1734 VE3TCP robohack!woods Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 11:07:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA30563; Sat, 31 May 1997 11:07:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 11:07:06 -0700 Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 11:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705311806.LAA24281@feta.direct.ca> X-Sender: jfajber@direct.ca (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: James Fajber Subject: SMOT ball drop Resent-Message-ID: <"gzi2o3.0.RT7.9Z6ap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3515 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I recall that you can take a soft iron nail, point it north, give it a hard hit with a hammer, and some of the mechanical energy from the hammer blow will shift the magnetic domains to give magnetize the nail. The SMOT ball drops down to the next track in the presence of a magnetic field. I wonder if it could be picking up some magnetization through the same mechanism. That said, I'm going hunting for SMOT parts today. Any magnet only device that makes more than one loop is novel, interesting and something I've gotta see for myself. James From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 11:44:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA01824; Sat, 31 May 1997 11:43:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 11:43:26 -0700 Message-ID: <338F2D01.59D7@slkc.uswest.net> Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 12:39:45 -0700 From: jared bouck Reply-To: jarbou@slkc.uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: gravity resonance coil Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cCb1O3.0.PS.D57ap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3516 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! WOW alot has happend... as you all can see i havent posted anything in a LONG time, i have run into some problems, and have some stuff to report, ok if i rember right the last mesage i posted i had just finished winding the main coil and had put it into the "donut" well what had happend is i went to test the coil out, and the STRONG magnetic field totaly wiped out my computer, it formated the hdd, and all of my backup disks and today is the first day that i finaly have gotten back on the net. now that i have been able to update what i am doing i have some inprovments and modafactions that need to be made, the first and most inportant is go to the local hardware store and buy some coper toobing <1/4 DIA.> take 1 loop of it inside of the coil, < DO NOT LET IT CONTACT THE COIL ITS SELF> and win in use run water through it to cool the unit down! it heats up real fast, allso use glycern not wax as a di-electric. and the second and probly best inprovment is go to your local lumber retaler and buy alot of sheat lead and build a box around it, or do what i did, i moved this into a "tuff shed" out side and lead lined the entier inside with the lead. well that about does it, rember what i said and use caution if you dieside to make this project, i am about done winding the outer coil, win i am i will update you all again, if you have any questions email me at jarbou@slkc.uswest.net and i will email you asap! i know some of you had emailed me with questions, email them again to me, i lost them all! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 12:10:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA04910; Sat, 31 May 1997 12:09:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 12:09:34 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC6E07.0426A840@asd01-23.dial.xs4all.nl> From: Robin To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 00:06:58 +-200 Encoding: 1 TEXT, 25 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"wCGTw.0.dC1.jT7ap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3517 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: unsubscribe freenrg-l@eskimo.com begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@<3`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`" !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```$<`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!F``(P`0````4` M``!33510`````!X``S !````%0```&9R965N``$P`0```!<````G9G)E96YR9RUL0&5S:VEM M;RYC;VTG```"`0LP`0```!H```!33510.D92145.4D`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X`'PP!```` M$P```'-C:&]E;6%K0'AS-&%L;"YN; ```P`&$-CER(<#``<0'@```!X`"! ! M````'P```%5.4U5"4T-224)%1E)%14Y21RU,0$532TE-3T-/30```@$)$ $` M``"G````HP```"H!``!,6D9U7O!1U/\`"@$/`A4"J 7K`H,`4 +R"0(`8V@* MP'-E=#(W!@`&PP*#,@/%`@!P)S=&5M`H,SMP+D!Q,"@S02S!3%?0J M/PC/"=D"@ J!#;$+8&YG>#$P,Q10"PH58@'0(!)U`(!U8@3R8F4@@P-0">%R M9RUL0 >0DFL'<&\N!:!M( J'[QHJ"J #8!/08P5 "H46P0(`'Y ``P`0$ `` M```#`!$0`````$ `!S#@T8(-ZFJ\`4 `"##@T8(-ZFJ\`0,``ED"````'@`] /``$````!`````````/-B ` end From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 12:33:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA17810; Sat, 31 May 1997 12:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 12:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970531123203.00af5ac0@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 12:32:04 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: SMOT now in 6 Phases and linked to the SMOT kits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"4uBUp3.0.7M4.Bp7ap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3518 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I already have done the friction experiment and posted the results on vortex-l and freenrg-l. I think barry did the math on the results. Pay attention. At 01:23 PM 5/31/97 -0400, you wrote: >In order to get to that point I and others have suggested measuring the >friction loss of the ball rolling on the track, and I've also suggested >measuring the energy of a falling ball as compared to one rolling down a >ramp from the same vertical height. These combined experiments should >show if indeed the magnets are imparting any energy to the ball that >cannot be explained with gravity alone. Greg A. Woods > >+1 416 443-1734 VE3TCP robohack!woods >Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 12:56:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA20550; Sat, 31 May 1997 12:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 12:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 14:52:58 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970531140543.31cf17d0@albec.net.mx> X-Sender: pascalin@albec.net.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: Arturo Pascalin Subject: Re: SMOT Kits and SMOT Phases update (31st May, 1997) Resent-Message-ID: <"mDHdi3.0.y05.s78ap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3519 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:04 PM 31/05/97 +0930, you wrote: >Hi All, > > >Here are the updated SMOT Kit and SMOT Phases details : > > >******************** > > > Price : > > $150 Australian Dollars via International Bank Cheque > made payable to Greg Watson Consulting. > > ~ 115 US Dollars, > 70 UK Pounds, > 660 French Francs, > 158 Canadian Dollars, > 3975 Belgium Francs, > 195 German Marks, > 13200 Japanese Yen, > 165 New Zealand Dollars, > 875 Swedish Krona, > 192000 Italian Lira > 1350 Austrian Schillings > 160 Swish Francs > or about 906 Mexican Pesos -- ____ _ __ | _ \ __ _ ___ ___ __ _| /_/_ __ | |_) / _` / __|/ __/ _` | | | '_ \ | __/ (_| \__ \ (_| (_| | | | | | | |_| \__,_|___/\___\__,_|_|_|_| |_| Arturo Pascalin < http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2508 > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 15:50:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA00301; Sat, 31 May 1997 15:50:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 15:50:06 -0700 Message-ID: <3390D4DE.6ED0@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 18:48:15 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can magnets do work? References: <338F8091.914@tiac.net> <338F6546.7786@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1XZma.0.c4.TiAap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3520 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > Bob Shannon wrote: > > But when we place the ball on the start of the ramp, we are putting > > energy into the system. We release the ball, adding a bit more energy. > > NO ............. a thousand times NO. Greg, are you really saying it takes no energy to place the ball in the field? > > Bob, have you actually built a SMOT ramp? > > When you do so, you will see that this ststement is incorrect. > > > The ball goes up the ramp, and gravity returns the ball to the original > > level, where it finds another ramp. If the ramp added energy to the > > ball, it should travel up the second identical ramp a bit faster than it > > had before. After a few circuits through the ramps, it should be moving > > quite quickly if each trip up the ramp actually added energy to the > > motion of the ball. > > Only if the added energy was greater than the frictional losses. Exactly Greg, and this is what over unity means, input to output ratios... > If you build a SMOT ramp and play with the adjustments, you will learn > that most of the energy gain in the ramp is lost in using the mag wall > at the end of the ramp to push the ball back into the exit rails. > Others will verify this. > > Using a sharp drop off, the SMOT ramps are sort of self regulating. At unity, not 'over unity'? > > The improved Phase 2 ramps with their "S" curved exits are another thing > again. With these, we can actually hang onto more of the balls energy. So they accelerate on each circuit, or can drive a external load? > Please Bob, before you say any more, BUILD 2 SMOT RAMPS. Then comment. > As I said before, the way I designed the exit in the easy to build Phase > 1 design makes the ramps sort of self regulating. > > Don't believe me? > > BUILD a Phase 1 SMOT ramp and see for yourself! > Answer the question yourself. Build a SMOT ramp. > Build a SMOT ramp before you go on further. > They REALLY do work. > The Phase 1 design is self regulating. > Honest! Greg, didn't you recently invite theoretical discussions of this device on the list? Now I am asked not to discuss this further unless I've built the thing? Wow. I have no doubt it does what is claimed Greg, I was only commenting on what might be going on in this behavior. I have noever intended to doubt the claims themselves. I thought you had specifically invited such discussion. Sorry about that mate. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 15:58:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA02203; Sat, 31 May 1997 15:57:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 15:57:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3390D6B9.1960@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 18:56:09 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Epitaxy CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can magnets do work? References: <3.0.32.19970530172109.00af1aa8@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CGTW03.0.GY.opAap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3521 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > NO COINCIDENCE AT ALL. Really? > C'mon. It is quite obvious that the ball will reach certain TERMINAL > VELOCITY because the eddy current braking and air resistance increase with > speed. > > Soooo... since the losses are dependent on speed, they will very quickly > reach an equilibrium. Just like a skydiver who reaches 160 miles per hour > and does not accelerate any faster although the gravity is pulling on him > with the same force as in the beginning. > > If it wasn't for this simple relationship the ball would go faster and > faster and faster.................. Err, that ball always starts off at terminal velocity? That is what I might describe as a coincidence. It's got to accelerate to this point of equlibrium between any net energy gain and induced losses. This acceleration, or the lack of it will tell us a great deal about the operation of the ramp, reguardless of the fact that it should at some point reach equlibrium. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 16:03:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA14427; Sat, 31 May 1997 16:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 16:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3390D7BF.1A96@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 19:00:31 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can magnets do work? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JR63S1.0.DX3.cuAap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3522 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > > On Sat, 31 May 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > > > Bob Shannon wrote: > > > The ball goes up the ramp, and gravity returns the ball to the original > > > level, where it finds another ramp. If the ramp added energy to the > > > ball, it should travel up the second identical ramp a bit faster than it > > > had before. After a few circuits through the ramps, it should be moving > > > quite quickly if each trip up the ramp actually added energy to the > > > motion of the ball. > > > > Only if the added energy was greater than the frictional losses. > > Yes. And besides "rolling friction" and inductive braking, there is also > demagnetization/remagnetization loss in the steel of the ball (also called > hysterisis loss.) My gut feel is that this path for energy loss is greater > than inductive braking. Shifting the permanent magnetization of the steel > ball will slow the ball and heat it. One way to reduce hysterisis loss: > don't use steel, use a ferromag material which cannot be permanently > magnetized. Pure iron for example. I've heard that steel with extremely > high carbon content is similar. I believe that the alloys used in > transformer laminations are optimized for reduced hysterisis loss. > However, perhaps the o/u effect involves hysterisis in the ball, and a > pure iron ball actually will not run in closed-loop mode. Good point, I'd forgotten this source of loss. > > > If you build a SMOT ramp and play with the adjustments, you will learn > > that most of the energy gain in the ramp is lost in using the mag wall > > at the end of the ramp to push the ball back into the exit rails. > > Others will verify this. > > This is interesting. Why should this be? Since fields are conservative, > the ball should "bounce off" the exit field, and any slowing that occurs > should produce a speedup in a later part of the ball's trajectory. That > is, unless there is a big dollop of hysterisis loss because of the > nonlinear fields magnetizing the steel ball. > > > > It would be quite a conincidence if the frictional and other losses were > > > always equal to the energy gain, resulting in a contant average ball > > > velocity. > > I have to disagree. Physical systems with low power and high friction > will accelerate only up to a speed where frictional loss is equal to > excess energy input rate. If friction was constant, then the rate of > energy loss increases with increasing speed. The system will "magically" > find the special speed where power loss equals power input. (Imagine a > wind-up toy boat driving across a bathtub; it doesn't speed up and up, > instead it immediately settles to a constant speed.) Argeed, I was not quite clear. I understand the device will accelerate up to a point of equlibrium, its this acceleration up to that limit I was thinking of in my original posting. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 16:14:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA15692; Sat, 31 May 1997 16:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 16:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3390DA3F.19F2@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 19:11:11 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Question? Very important question! References: <970530223105_1375870919@emout02.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"28QYW2.0.5r3.V2Bap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3523 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Greg, > I have a book by Lester R, Moskowitz called, Permanent Magnet Design and > Application Handbook. He states that one of the first things that a person > who is handling permanent magnets for the first time ask's is, when they pull > two magnets apart they pull each other back together again and if they do > this sequence over and over again the magnets don't lose any strength and > they ask where does the energy come from to keep them pulling each other back > together again? He says it should be quite clear to them what is going on. > When they let the magnets pull each other together the magnets do work and a > certain amout of the magnets energy is reduced. What they don't see going on > is, that when they pull the magnets apart they do work on the magnets and > restore that lost energy back to the magnets. Gee, not totally unlike a spring? > If this is not so, then every time we pull two magnets apart we are > increasing the total energy of the magnets and if we were to do this a > million times then the magnets would be so full of energy they would be about > to " burst at the seams". > What scares me is if what he says is true then every time you got the > magnets to do work, then to maintain the original energy level of the > magnets, you would half to return that work in total to the magnets and if > any of that work was done external of the system, and not returned to the > system in full, then the total energy of the magnets drops. > Please tell me this is not so and why! > Butch LaFonte Maybe this has something to do with why the flux lines must always return back to their source? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 16:16:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA05677; Sat, 31 May 1997 16:15:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 16:15:14 -0700 Message-ID: <3390B087.5D4D@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 08:43:11 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Kit Offer Update (1st June, 1997), Web sites please update Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NXRs9.0.IO1._3Bap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3524 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Here are the updated SMOT Kit and SMOT Phases details : ******************** Price : $150 Australian Dollars via International Bank Cheque made payable to Greg Watson Consulting. ~ 115 US Dollars, 70 UK Pounds, 660 French Francs, 158 Canadian Dollars, 3975 Belgium Francs, 195 German Marks, 13200 Japanese Yen, 165 New Zealand Dollars, 875 Swedish Krona, 192000 Italian Lira 1350 Austrian Schillings 160 Swish Francs Please remit funds via an International Bank Cheque in Australian Dollars. You can ALSO send money directly to my bank account. My bank (ANZ) charges me $10 Aust to process the TT : If you wish to remit funds via TT please send $160 Australian Dollars to : Acount Name : Mr. and Mrs. GO Watson, Account Number : 015-035 5774-67879 Bank : Australian and New Zealand Banking Group Ltd., (ANZ) 201 Victoria Square, Adelaide, 5001, South Australia, Australia. Advise request : Please advise Greg Watson on 8270 2737 of senders details. As banks sometimes get things wrong, please advise me when you send a TT. ******************** Where to send for your SMOT Kit : Greg Watson Consulting, 8 Brabham Grove, Aberfolye Park, 5159, South Australia, Australia. Contact Details : Home / Business / PC Fax .......... 61 8 8270 2737 E-Mail ............................ gwatson@microtronics.com.au ******************** What you will get for your $150 dollars : 4 x Heat formed perspex bases (Numbered, dated and signed my me), 4 x Linking ramps with "S" curve exits, 1 x Linking ramp with 90 deg exit (Rollaway / Rollaround use), 8 x Assembled Magnet Arrays, 4 x Steel Balls, 8 x Dress Making Pins, 1 x Instruction Manual, 1 x Frameable "Certificate of Authenticity", 1 x Photo of ME with the 4 linked SMOT ramps, The SMOT kits are "Exec Desk" Quality. One kit will produce 4 "Exec Desk" Toys. ******************** Delivery : Via international postal air mail. ******************** My Personal Guarantee : Assuming that the ramps are placed on a flat level surface, I Greg Watson personal guarantee that : 1) The 4 SMOT ramps will work as individual ramps. A ball statring at rest will climb the ramp and drop out. start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm, (Ramp 1) >>>>>>> This is Phase 1 of SMOT development and testing. 2) The 4 SMOT ramps will link and deliver a ball starting at rest to the end of the 4th linked ramp and drop out. start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm, (Ramp 1) start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm, (Ramp 2) start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm, (Ramp 3) start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm. (Ramp 4) >>>>>>> This is Phase 2 of SMOT development and testing. If your SMOT kit can't do this, I will refund your money. ******************** Additional claims : Depending on your skill in adjusting the ramps and their linking, you should expect to achieve the following : 1) That the 4 linked ramps can be placed on a base board that will elevate the ramps at an angle and achieve a final ramp height at least twice the original height. The use of a board allows gradual increase of the ramp heights while you learn to power up the ramps. start at 0mm, climb to 15mm, drop to 3mm, (Ramp 1) start at 3mm, climb to 18mm, drop to 6mm, (Ramp 2) start at 6mm, climb to 21mm, drop to 9mm, (Ramp 3) start at 9mm, climb to 24mm, drop to 0mm. (Ramp 4) >>>>>> This is Phase 3 of SMOT development and testing. 2) That with the tilted linking achieved, the ball on exiting the final ramp will fall to the entry level and roll away from the ramp assemblies (staying at the entry level). (This is the first OU claim). >>>>>> This is Phase 4 of SMOT development and testing. 3) That with the rollaway achieved, a rollaround using plastic tubing will allow the ball to return to the start. (This is the second OU claim) >>>>>> This is Phase 5 of SMOT development and testing. 4) That with the rollaround achieved, the ball will re-enter the first ramp and repeat the process. (This is the third OU claim) >>>>>> This is Phase 6 and final stage of SMOT development and testing. ******************** I can't guarantee that YOU will achieve all of the above. To do so will depend on how good you get in adjusting the magnets. Many others will support my claim that getting the adjustments right can require hours of fiddling or minutes. It all depends on how much you understand the dynamics of the ramps. The more you play, the more you understand and the adjustments become second nature. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Web sites who WISH to display this offer for at least 3 months AND qualify to receive a FREE SMOT Kit, please contact me for the details. If you have already purchased a SMOT kit, I will refund your money. I will have photos of the finished SMOT kits available with-in a week. Best Regards, Good Smoting to all, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 16:53:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA11478; Sat, 31 May 1997 16:53:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 16:53:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3390E3AF.2677@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 19:51:27 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: can magnets do work? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_AVEu3.0.Fp2.cdBap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3525 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > Science wig. sig. wrote: > > Greg, > > Way don't you help try and explain your great idea. You don't need to > > jump on other people, just help us figure out where the energy is coming > > from. > > I only get annoyed at folks that make statements about the SMOT device > and they have never even built one. If you want to shoot it apart, > thats fine, but first build one. Only seems fair, right? Not if you invite theoretical discussion on the subject. Any exactly why would you assume that its remotely reasonable for you to set any limits on the discussion over an open list Greg? And why do you assume that this discussion of your device is 'shooting it apart'? What happened to the process of objective discussion that has been a part of doing science for all these years, has all that oly been 'shooting' each other down? Think about that for a minute, you might learn something. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 17:07:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA21319; Sat, 31 May 1997 17:06:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 17:06:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3390BC53.3B55@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 09:33:31 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A mundane explanation of SMOTs References: <199705310000.UAA27226@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> <338FAAFB.5D16@microtronics.com.au> <3390DBDE.41D2@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4AXQn3.0.0D5.npBap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3526 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > Science wig. sig. wrote: > > > > > > Greg, > > > Way don't you help try and explain your great idea. You don't need to > > > jump on other people, just help us figure out where the energy is coming > > > from. > > > > I only get annoyed at folks that make statements about the SMOT device > > and they have never even built one. If you want to shoot it apart, > > thats fine, but first build one. Only seems fair, right? > > Not if you invite theoretical discussion on the subject. Any exactly > why would > you assume that its remotely reasonable for you to set any limits on the > discussion > over an open list Greg? > > Think about that for a minute, you might learn something. Hi Bob, I fully believe in and support open discussion about SMOT. NO RESTRICTIONS. I also know that some wild ideas have flown about and that if a SMOT ramp had been played with before, the ideas could have been better directed. For the first time that I know, a quick, easy, low cost and simple to construct device has been placed in the public domain for all to play with and discuss. There is even video of the devices working to be viewed by all. When was the last time that happened? If the SMOT ramp required mega hours and/or dollars to build and a lab full of equipment to test, then more theory based discussion is to be expected. This has been the norm for most of the ideas presented on these groups. However, with SMOT that is NOT the case. For the first time, YOU can build a SMOT ramp in a few hours, play with it, think about what your eyes and hands are telling you. It then OPENS up a whole world of discussions based on the operational characteristics observed by so many. Pure theory based discussion is OK. Go for it. But I really believe YOU and all the rest of us will get a lot more out of the discussions once YOU have built a SMOT ramp. Thats why I keep on saying "Build a SMOT ramp, then talk". It improves the signal to noise ratio. My Very Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 17:43:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA25924; Sat, 31 May 1997 17:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 17:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BC6DE9.AB91D500@ip203.ts4.phx.inficad.com> From: Reed Huish To: "'free nrg'" Cc: "'egel@main.murray.net.au'" Subject: The Encyclopedia Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 15:18:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"_qnPl.0.xK6.oLCap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3527 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks to Geoff Egal, we have posted his complete Encyclopedia to Free = Energy on our web-site, located at http://zenergy.com under the Research = section. If anyone has research material or other technical information which = would be of benefit to individuals working in this new industry, please = let us know and we would be happy to post the information on our site. - Reed Huish Zenergy Corp http://zenergy.com 602.814.7865 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 18:13:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA28644; Sat, 31 May 1997 18:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 18:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3390CBE5.3507@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 10:39:57 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT balls becoming magnetised Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------50505B321CCC" Resent-Message-ID: <"OnQNR1.0.P_6.DoCap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3528 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------50505B321CCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I have attached a simple Gif showing how any ferromagnetic material will react as it moves through the different mag fields in a SMOT ramp (or any field differential where reversal doesn't occur). The material will trace out what is called a "Minor Loop" as the ball moves from the area of smallest field (at the bottom of the ramp) to the area of largest field (at the top of the ramp) and back. I have never seen any references to the fact that a ferromagnetic material moving through a minor loop will climb higher and higher up its B/H curve and increase its residual magnetism. I have many years of designing and working with ferromagnetic and have never seen it happen. I don't believe it works like that. I am working on a SMOT theory which ties in Barry's ideas (which I partly agree with), the Rod & Coil demo Epitaxy and I presented here and my DNMEC effect experience. If I am right, the energy is coming from the ball and not the magnets. 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eeRQL1.0.ZX5.GuCap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3529 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > I fully believe in and support open discussion about SMOT. > > > > NO RESTRICTIONS. > > > > I also know that some wild ideas have flown about and that if a SMOT > > ramp had been played with before, the ideas could have been better > > directed. > > > > For the first time that I know, a quick, easy, low cost and simple to > > construct device has been placed in the public domain for all to play > > with and discuss. There is even video of the devices working to be > > viewed by all. When was the last time that happened? > > > > If the SMOT ramp required mega hours and/or dollars to build and a lab > > full of equipment to test, then more theory based discussion is to be > > expected. This has been the norm for most of the ideas presented on > > these groups. However, with SMOT that is NOT the case. > > Whoa there, discussion of the theory plays just as important a role in an > easy to produce device as it does in a difficult to produce device. > > I fail to see your point here. For the first time, you can base discussion on a real device! > > For the first time, YOU can build a SMOT ramp in a few hours, play with > > it, think about what your eyes and hands are telling you. It then OPENS > > up a whole world of discussions based on the operational characteristics > > observed by so many. > > Clearly you prefer that anyone wishing to join the discussion has first built > your device. I guess you feel is unlikely people could discuss its operation > without first having built one. No, that's not so. Its just that, for most of us, the quality of the discussion seems higher once a device is built. > > Pure theory based discussion is OK. Go for it. But I really believe > > YOU and all the rest of us will get a lot more out of the discussions > > once YOU have built a SMOT ramp. > > > > Thats why I keep on saying "Build a SMOT ramp, then talk". > > > > It improves the signal to noise ratio. > > Your beginning to sound a bit like an 'infomercial' Greg, but I'll be happy > to do my part in keeping the SNR down by not posting on the subject from > now on. Hi Bob, That is NOT what I or this group needs. We need all the input we can get. Yours included!!!!!!!!!! Best Regards and Good Thinking, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 18:56:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA05338; Sat, 31 May 1997 18:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 18:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3390D57B.1C83@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 11:20:51 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT Kit Offer Update (1st June, 1997) References: <3390CB13.9FFDB53E@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iY0tg.0.BJ1.jODap"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3530 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hamdi Ucar wrote: > > Hi, > > This kit have historical value. I recommend that every one have one. > Build or keep it as original package. It will be the most precious piece > of the science museum in the next years. Greg, did you putting date and > serial number on it? > > I am still cautious about announcing this kit on a WEB page. A friend of > mine after who does not believe the miracle said after reading the KIT > option "He already closed the loop in other way". He implied business. > > Regards, > > Hamdi Ucar Hi Hamdi, Each SMOT ramp's base will be serial numbered, dated and signed my me. And there are 4 in each kit. Best Regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat May 31 19:24:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA31431; Sat, 31 May 1997 19:23:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 19:23:02 -0700 Message-ID: <3390DC62.6E61@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 11:50:18 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT sims and mesh size Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------244366B57DAF" Resent-Message-ID: <"7vcyR1.0.-g7.3qDap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3531 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------244366B57DAF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I have attached the mesh I used to generate the "looking from the top" sims. As Scott says, I am limited to 500 nodes, but the guys at Quick Field claim to do some fancy footwork and produce results much finer than 500 nodes would otherwise produce. It seems to work. Anyway, here is the mesh in the raw. 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XAA26797; Sat, 31 May 1997 23:45:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 23:45:55 -0700 Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 23:45:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706010645.XAA15828@ganymede.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: SMOT output Resent-Message-ID: <"HzFev3.0.ZY6.XgHap"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3532 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: One way to get an output from the closed loop SMOT would be to make the ball land on or bump a piezoelectric element when it falls off the end of the ramp. If it falls hard it might make an arc ( like in a gas grill ignition ) but it should at least make an LED light briefly. Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /********************************************************/ /* I don't think that energy is conserved, but it */ /* doesn't matter if useful over-unity operation works! */ /********************************************************/