From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 1 06:24:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA04541; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 06:24:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 06:24:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3753DE89.EB760805@harti.com> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:22:17 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Chernetski self generating discharge Pics uploaded ! X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Zd5Rk.0.s61.sxzKt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10693 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have uploaded the 3 pics: http://www.overunity.com/chern/chern1.jpg http://www.overunity.com/chern/chern2.jpg http://www.overunity.com/chern/chern3.jpg to my site. These are from the MPEG movie about the Russian physicist Chernetski. He experimented with H2 gas at 1.5 to 2 Torr pressure and could get 5 times more energy out than in ! You can see his long glas tube filled with H2. When the pressure or the voltage is not in the right condition, there is just a yellow glow and the power input (seen on the meter in the background is high) and just 2 lamps are illuminated. When the pressure and the voltage is right tuned ( LC Oscillation circuit tuning) the input power goes down (meter decreases) and the gas is changing its color, now illuminated blue ! Also now all the output lamps are fully lightning ! This is the condition for more output power than input power. It seems to depend all on the right pressure level and the right gas used. Something simular is happening inside (between) the Newman commutator electrodes ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 1 15:24:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA00904; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:17:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:17:45 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <10047dfb.2485ac67@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:36:39 EDT Subject: Re: More VACE tests, etc. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Resent-Message-ID: <"E1Vx42.0.tD.8m5Lt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10694 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello all, I have a comment or two on Dave's work, but also did a magnetic test with results *I* didn't expect: suppose you have a straight permanent magnet PM, and two small ferromagnetic pieces M1 and M2. Now you approach the South pole of isolated PM with M1 so M1 is just attracted to PM (and measure the force). Hold M1 and PM fixed. Now from the North pole side you approach PM with M2. As M2 approaches PM, does the force on M1 increase, decrease, or remain about the same?? It seemed clear to me the magnetic field lines would redistribute and become more concentrated on the N side of PM as M2 approached, decreasing the force on M1. Needless to say I guess, it *increases* significantly. Interesting and posssibly useful to understand, I thought. Ken In a message dated 5/31/99 10:15:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: << Hi All, In my last post I was testing the interaction of a toroidal electromagnet with a permanent magnet toroid. I had found that I could reverse the slight attraction/repulsion by changing either the current or the sense of the PM toroid (CW/CCW). I estimate the relative permibility of the electromagnet core to be about 50 to 100. Well, I have replaced the toroidal electromagnet with a single loop, without any ferromagnetic material, to get a clearer idea of what's going on. The loop is still on the end of a pendulum. Although the loop isn't an "isolated" straight current element, portions do seem to act that way with just a small neodym. magnet (Fields circulating around the wire, strongest at the wire surface, etc). With the axis of the PM toroid and wire segment aligned, I could see the same attraction/repulsion as with the toroid, but much stronger. However, I found another factor that has a big effect. If I rotate the PM toroid about its axis, I can change the direction of the force. The PM toroid does not have constant cross-sectional area. so the current density varies with 1/this area, if total flux = constant.>> If I understand the set up, it sounds like the loop tending to align itself with the stray magnetic fields of the toroid(?) The virtual current of the toroid should be similiar everywhere, so from the perspective of forces between currents you wouldn't expect a change in direction -- <> This sounds reasonable, but if you reverse the current in the loop is it repelled (all parts) from the toroid? <> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 1 16:42:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA16244; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:41:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:41:09 -0700 Message-ID: <001001beac91$16d75a00$667988d1@monorailpc> From: "code" To: Subject: Re: More VACE tests, etc. Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:44:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"rH4VI3.0.gz3.K-6Lt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10695 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken/Dave/et al, Have you ever looked into the works of Lester Hendershot? I know a lot of people think he was a fraud but I built one of his devices and had some success with it, ( all be it, meager ); thus I feel there's something to what he was doing; what though??? However...he apparently constructed a motor along the lines of what you're working with. I obviouly don't know all the details, but from what I do understand, he wound a circular core with wire in a certain geometric configuration, mounted it on a shaft...steel, I believe...and gave it a momentary pulse to get it started; thereafter, it ran by itself; producing work/excess power in the process. This motor apparently used the Earth's magnetic field in some way, and it seems likely, that were someone to utilize today's neodymium PM's in conjunction with Hendershot's designs... :) Just a thought. I applaud what you're doing and wish you the best of luck. Best regards, Alan -----Original Message----- From: Keasy@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 4:32 PM Subject: Re: More VACE tests, etc. >Hello all, > > I have a comment or two on Dave's work, but also did a magnetic test with >results *I* didn't expect: suppose you have a straight permanent magnet PM, >and two small ferromagnetic pieces M1 and M2. Now you approach the South >pole of isolated PM with M1 so M1 is just attracted to PM (and measure the >force). Hold M1 and PM fixed. Now from the North pole side you approach >PM with M2. As M2 approaches PM, does the force on M1 increase, decrease, or >remain about the same?? It seemed clear to me the magnetic field lines would >redistribute and become more concentrated on the N side of PM as M2 >approached, decreasing the force on M1. Needless to say I guess, it >*increases* significantly. Interesting and posssibly useful to understand, I >thought. > Ken > > > >In a message dated 5/31/99 10:15:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >ddameron@earthlink.net writes: > ><< > Hi All, > In my last post I was testing the interaction of a toroidal electromagnet > with a permanent magnet toroid. I had found that I could reverse the slight > attraction/repulsion by changing either the current or the sense of the PM > toroid (CW/CCW). I estimate the relative permibility of the electromagnet > core to be about 50 to 100. > > Well, I have replaced the toroidal electromagnet with a single loop, > without any > ferromagnetic material, to get a clearer idea of what's going on. The loop > is still on the end of a pendulum. Although the loop isn't an "isolated" > straight current element, portions do seem to act that way with just a > small neodym. magnet (Fields circulating around the wire, strongest at the > wire surface, etc). > > With the axis of the PM toroid and wire segment aligned, I could see the > same attraction/repulsion as with the toroid, but much stronger. However, I > found another factor that has a big effect. If I rotate the PM toroid about > its axis, > I can change the direction of the force. The PM toroid does not have > constant cross-sectional area. so the current density varies with 1/this > area, if total flux = constant.>> > >If I understand the set up, it sounds like the loop tending to align itself >with the stray magnetic fields of the toroid(?) The virtual current of the >toroid should be similiar everywhere, so from the perspective of forces >between currents you wouldn't expect a change in direction -- > > < I tried running the wire through the toroid, coinciding real and virtual > currents, and it always was attracted to some part of the toroid.>> > >This sounds reasonable, but if you reverse the current in the loop is it >repelled (all parts) from the toroid? > > < If the loop axis is still horizontal, but the PM axis is now vertical, the > interaction is like a normal magnet, that is, attracted to one side or > other of the wire. > > I have found some small ceramic ring magnets, but haven't tried to repole > them. > -Dave >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 1 17:45:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA09016; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:42:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:42:57 -0700 Message-ID: <001901beac95$878b23e0$667988d1@monorailpc> From: "code" To: Subject: OT: Fun with magnets Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:16:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ln1GE1.0.nC2.Hu7Lt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10696 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Just a quick letter to see if you want to try something kinda fun with those magnets you have lying around... Take one of your ring magnets, put it on a slightly smaller diameter non-magnetic shaft...hard copper tubing works very well as does brass. Rest the ring magnet on a support...brass compression fittings work well...then hold your electromagnet at about a 45degree angle to the bottom of the ring and turn on the juice. If everything is right, the ring will start vibrating with the AC and soon be spinning like mad! What value this has...unknown; but it's a heck of a lot of fun and will eventually demagnetize those rings for you; whether you want it too or not. ;) Here's a very simple diagram: l l l l copper tubing l l _______l_l_______ ring magnet l________________l \_ / compression fitting support ____ l l l \ l l l \ l l l \ l l l \ l l l \ l l l l AC electromagnet It takes a little doing but once it's going...!!! Have fun and best regards, Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 2 09:21:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA30685; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:17:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:17:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990602074728.203fbe54@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 07:47:28 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: More VACE tests, etc. In-Reply-To: <001001beac91$16d75a00$667988d1@monorailpc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"TCUF11.0.MV7.LaLLt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10697 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, At 05:44 PM 6/1/99 -0700, Alan wrote: >Hi Ken/Dave/et al, > >Have you ever looked into the works of Lester Hendershot? I know a lot of >people think he was a fraud but I built one of his devices and had some >success with it, ( all be it, meager ); thus I feel there's something to >what he was doing; what though??? What (little) success did you find? I tried monitoring the voltage of an electrolytic capacitor inside an air bore coil (AC or DC), and did not measure any effect, such as from a change in capacitance. I haven't found much specific info. on the net, such as any wiring diagram, but various stories like has his device been duplicated or lost... Did you buy any material from his son? I notice that Rex Research also has some info. on it. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 2 09:22:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA30714; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:17:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:17:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990602073934.203f6b08@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 07:39:34 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: More VACE tests, etc. In-Reply-To: <10047dfb.2485ac67@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"B2TX82.0.lV7.NaLLt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10698 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken and all, At 05:36 PM 6/1/99 EDT, you wrote: > I have a comment or two on Dave's work, but also did a magnetic test with >results *I* didn't expect: suppose you have a straight permanent magnet PM, >and two small ferromagnetic pieces M1 and M2. Now you approach the South >pole of isolated PM with M1 so M1 is just attracted to PM (and measure the >force). Hold M1 and PM fixed. Now from the North pole side you approach >PM with M2. As M2 approaches PM, does the force on M1 increase, decrease, or >remain about the same?? It seemed clear to me the magnetic field lines would >redistribute and become more concentrated on the N side of PM as M2 >approached, decreasing the force on M1. Needless to say I guess, it >*increases* significantly. Interesting and posssibly useful to understand, I >thought. > Ken I would have guessed "about the same", but will try it soon. With the variety of magnets I've collected, don't have a plain bar magnet. > With the axis of the PM toroid and wire segment aligned, I could see the > same attraction/repulsion as with the toroid, but much stronger. However, I > found another factor that has a big effect. If I rotate the PM toroid about > its axis, > I can change the direction of the force. The PM toroid does not have > constant cross-sectional area. so the current density varies with 1/this > area, if total flux = constant.>> > >If I understand the set up, it sounds like the loop tending to align itself >with the stray magnetic fields of the toroid(?) The virtual current of the >toroid should be similiar everywhere, so from the perspective of forces >between currents you wouldn't expect a change in direction -- Yes, a uniform toroid is what I need next. Whatever the cause, the effect predominated. > > < I tried running the wire through the toroid, coinciding real and virtual > currents, and it always was attracted to some part of the toroid.>> > >This sounds reasonable, but if you reverse the current in the loop is it >repelled (all parts) from the toroid? I would have been excited if it had. This would have meant the wire would be forced to the center of the bore, and thus could be "levitated". > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 2 13:37:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA04681; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:36:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:36:14 -0700 Message-ID: <000101bead37$992ca900$91c41bca@rae> From: "Stuart Rae" To: "FREENRG-L" Subject: Test - Ignore Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:34:44 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEAD9B.EEAB6A60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"BrPNV.0.091.zMPLt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10699 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEAD9B.EEAB6A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Test Only - Please Ignore ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEAD9B.EEAB6A60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Test Only - Please Ignore
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEAD9B.EEAB6A60-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 2 14:25:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21301; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:24:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:24:16 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01bead41$2c5b1a00$667988d1@monorailpc> From: "code" To: Subject: Re: More VACE tests, etc. Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:45:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"F3Br41.0.kC5._3QLt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10700 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Dave Dameron To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 10:27 AM Subject: Re: More VACE tests, etc. >Hi all, >At 05:44 PM 6/1/99 -0700, Alan wrote: >>Hi Ken/Dave/et al, >> >>Have you ever looked into the works of Lester Hendershot? I know a lot of >>people think he was a fraud but I built one of his devices and had some >>success with it, ( all be it, meager ); thus I feel there's something to >>what he was doing; what though??? > >What (little) success did you find? I tried monitoring the voltage of an >electrolytic capacitor inside an air bore coil (AC or DC), and did not >measure any effect, such as from a change in capacitance. > >I haven't found much specific info. on the net, such as any wiring diagram, >but various stories like has his device been duplicated or lost... >Did you buy any material from his son? I notice that Rex Research also has >some info. on it. >-Dave > Sometimes, it's those "little" successes that are the stepping stones to major discoveries. I constructed a set of Hendershot coils...basket weave...with internal capacitors, etc.. Upon completion, I was able to measure a constant output of both voltage/amperage. The levels were low...high levels at hundreds of millis on both v/a...but it was constant and was charging the caps associated with the circuit with no external energy input. I never did figure out where the energy was coming from...thought maybe induction from wiring or local radio station but it was neither of these...and like to believe it was aether related. The strangest thing was the effect people, weather, lunar phase and/or orientation would have on the device. Never got any usable power out of it though and I eventually abandoned it to pursue electromedicine. I did purchase a manual that was put out by Mark Hendershot after I began work on the device and it included pictures/diagrams of both the device and of the motor I mentioned earlier. The same information used to be available on the net; I'll look around and see if I can find something. I've seen some info through Borderlands but know nothing of Rex. Do you have an addy for them? I believe that Hendershot may have actually been onto something...based on the available information, everything in his device precisely coincided with the current harmonic theories advanced by several individuals...but I think he utilized radium chloride, which is a powerful emitter of alpha particles and was commonly available as paint during his time, to generate the levels of power he did. Anyway, I appreciate the feedback and wish you success...be it little or great...in all your ventures. Best regards, Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 2 23:13:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA31868; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:12:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:12:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990602214857.37bff780@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 21:48:57 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Hendershot In-Reply-To: <000a01bead41$2c5b1a00$667988d1@monorailpc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1NilI2.0.rn7.RpXLt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10701 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Alan and all, At 02:45 PM 6/2/99 -0700, Alan wrote: > >Sometimes, it's those "little" successes that are the stepping stones to >major discoveries. > >I constructed a set of Hendershot coils...basket weave...with internal >capacitors, etc.. Upon completion, I was able to measure a constant output >of both voltage/amperage. The levels were low...high levels at hundreds of >millis on both v/a...but it was constant and was charging the caps >associated with the circuit with no external energy input. I never did >figure out where the energy was coming from...thought maybe induction from >wiring or local radio station but it was neither of these...and like to >believe it was aether related. The strangest thing was the effect people, >weather, lunar phase and/or orientation would have on the device. Never got >any usable power out of it though and I eventually abandoned it to pursue >electromedicine. Can you give the rough dimensions of your basketweave coils, the capacitor values, and how you connected them up? Could you see daily variations- light or temperature related? If it's not too complicated, I will try it. > >I did purchase a manual that was put out by Mark Hendershot after I began >work on the device and it included pictures/diagrams of both the device and >of the motor I mentioned earlier. The same information used to be available >on the net; I'll look around and see if I can find something. I've seen >some info through Borderlands but know nothing of Rex. Do you have an addy >for them? Bob Paddock has placed his catalog on line: http://www.csonline.net/bpaddock/rex/catalog.htm > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 3 08:02:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA03108; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:01:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:01:36 -0700 Message-ID: <375698C4.CC847DB@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 08:01:24 -0700 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: harti@harti.com CC: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: Chernetski self generating discharge - a possible explaination. References: <3753DE89.EB760805@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AhY_S.0.Pm.FZfLt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10702 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Hi All, > I have uploaded the 3 pics: > > http://www.overunity.com/chern/chern1.jpg > http://www.overunity.com/chern/chern2.jpg > http://www.overunity.com/chern/chern3.jpg > Stefan- Most exellent and thank you. I have seen the little mpeg video, it's a teaser! I wonder if anyone has a verified circuit diagram for this device?? > Something simular is happening inside (between) the Newman commutator > electrodes ! A true enough statement! I think what we are seeing is similar to the effects of an RF coherer in a primitive AM receiver. The spark gap with it's massive E field and the broadbanded harmonics that are generated, perhaps in conjunction with the B field of the Earth, is opening a quantum-tunnel, from ordinary space directly into the Aether's flux! (So many of the OU devices utilize sparking currents, this has to be the mechanism!) Plasma is said to be a 4th state of Matter..should we be surprised that it might act as a coherer for energies at a relatively higher state from the ordinary space around it? All the best, Erik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 3 10:23:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA19904; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:23:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:23:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01beadee$a83c5320$e27988d1@monorailpc> From: "code" To: Subject: Re: Hendershot Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:26:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"rG_UN1.0.vs4.2ehLt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10703 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Can you give the rough dimensions of your basketweave coils, the capacitor >values, and how you connected them up? I'ts been a few years and I'm going from memory, but here's what I remember without my notes: The coils...there were 3 of them wound above each other...were roughly 6" in diameter, wound on 57 wooden dowels. I believe the dowels were 1/8" diameter, 5" high and spaced evenly around a 6" circumference. I can't recall the exact size of magnet wire I used but I think it was 19 guage. I also can't recall the exact number of windings each coil had, I'll find that info later ) but the whole thing was based on the harmonics of light and thus the number of windings correlated to such; I think the bottom coil had approx 60 turns and the other two coils had 20 but I'm not certain. I wound the coils in opposite directions...CW/CCW...for each set of three. The wire was woven in and out of the dowels...very diffficult and time consuming...and each layer was pressed tight against the former layer. If you have some type of coil winder that can do this, it would make it a whole lot easier! The capacitors...which went inside the coils and were held in place with parrafin wax...were formed from thin guage aluminum tubing wound with alternating layers of polypropylene " caution" tape...the stuff you see police using to surround a dangerous area/crime scene, etc....and strips of aluminum foil wound in alternating layers. I don't recall the exact lengths of the foil strips nor the cap values...again, it's been awhile...but they, too, correlated to the harmonics of light and were of the exact same value; I think they were .032mf but am not certain. The inner caps were connected to one of the coils...don't recall which...and the other coils were connected to the remaining components in the circuit; caps, multivibrator, xfmrs, etc.. Like I said, I'm going from memory but will see if I can find my construction notes/log for more precise future info. Could you see daily variations- >light or temperature related? Yes, there were daily variations/fluctuations...I charted these for awhile and I remember they correlated to the time of day, peaking at certain times, dipping at others...but I didn't do anything intentional with temp/light. Weather seemed to have an effect also. If it's not too complicated, I will try it. It is complicated but if a person could fabricate some jigs and/or had the right tools, it could be pretty easy. I'll dredge up the construction notes/material I have on it, see about constructing a web site and posting it there. Here's an old Keelynet article on the Hendershot device and some info Bill B. has available; if you're interested: http://www.keelynet.com/energy/hender1.txt http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hender.txt Thanx for the info and best regards, Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 3 12:03:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA26884; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:00:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:00:36 -0700 From: "Martin" To: Subject: Re: More VACE tests, etc. Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:28:15 +0200 Message-ID: <01beadd5$b339c6e0$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"KcAdx.0.dZ6.I3jLt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10704 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HI For the obvious question. Can we have some further details of your device? Regards Martin http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ >Have you ever looked into the works of Lester Hendershot? I know a lot of >people think he was a fraud but I built one of his devices and had some >success with it, ( all be it, meager ); thus I feel there's something to >what he was doing; what though??? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 3 16:21:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA31435; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:20:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:20:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199906032150.XAA07569@irene.ctv.es> Old-X-Envelope-To: From: "Vicente Jose Ramos" To: Subject: RE: Hendershot Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:24:41 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aJht43.0.kg7.-smLt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10705 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all . More info In: http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/main.html Yes, I know Mr. Perrault have some enemies here, but I think everybody must be respected. I have two Hendershot schematics at: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm Vicente. ---------- > De: code > A: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Asunto: Re: Hendershot > Fecha: jueves 3 de junio de 1999 20:26 > > >Can you give the rough dimensions of your basketweave coils, the capacitor > >values, and how you connected them up? > > I'ts been a few years and I'm going from memory, but here's what I remember > without my notes: > > The coils...there were 3 of them wound above each other...were roughly 6" in > diameter, wound on 57 wooden dowels. I believe the dowels were 1/8" > diameter, 5" high and spaced evenly around a 6" circumference. > I can't recall the exact size of magnet wire I used but I think it was 19 > guage. I also can't recall the exact number of windings each coil had, > I'll find that info later ) but the whole thing was based on the harmonics > of light and thus the number of windings correlated to such; I think the > bottom coil had approx 60 turns and the other two coils had 20 but I'm not > certain. > I wound the coils in opposite directions...CW/CCW...for each set of three. > The wire was woven in and out of the dowels...very diffficult and time > consuming...and each layer was pressed tight against the former layer. If > you have some type of coil winder that can do this, it would make it a whole > lot easier! > The capacitors...which went inside the coils and were held in place with > parrafin wax...were formed from thin guage aluminum tubing wound with > alternating layers of polypropylene " caution" tape...the stuff you see > police using to surround a dangerous area/crime scene, etc....and strips of > aluminum foil wound in alternating layers. I don't recall the exact lengths > of the foil strips nor the cap values...again, it's been awhile...but they, > too, correlated to the harmonics of light and were of the exact same value; > I think they were .032mf but am not certain. > The inner caps were connected to one of the coils...don't recall which...and > the other coils were connected to the remaining components in the circuit; > caps, multivibrator, xfmrs, etc.. > > Like I said, I'm going from memory but will see if I can find my > construction notes/log for more precise future info. > > > Could you see daily variations- > >light or temperature related? > > Yes, there were daily variations/fluctuations...I charted these for awhile > and I remember they correlated to the time of day, peaking at certain times, > dipping at others...but I didn't do anything intentional with temp/light. > Weather seemed to have an effect also. > > If it's not too complicated, I will try it. > > It is complicated but if a person could fabricate some jigs and/or had the > right tools, it could be pretty easy. > > I'll dredge up the construction notes/material I have on it, see about > constructing a web site and posting it there. > > Here's an old Keelynet article on the Hendershot device and some info Bill > B. has available; if you're interested: > http://www.keelynet.com/energy/hender1.txt > > http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hender.txt > > > Thanx for the info and best regards, > > Alan > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 3 18:47:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA30354; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:46:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 18:46:36 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRFEBBHZT3XmkZoqHKecdOH42FJjgIUWHaUvKJe4gIu8KgV/iUDTykoXok= From: B777b77@webtv.net (R B) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:46:28 -0500 (EST) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Free Energy Message-ID: <25787-37572FF4-28@postoffice-121.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"lNJDg2.0.BQ7.y_oLt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10706 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Interesting Free Energy page; Free Unlimited Energy Lever (FUEL) Address:http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/urbania/physics3.htm RB From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 4 01:10:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA25412; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 01:08:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 01:08:59 -0700 Message-Id: <199906040807.KAA31720@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Fuelink?? and Negre-air... Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:10:30 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Qs9YU.0.zC6.QcuLt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10707 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear all, I heard there was a program on discovery about an American inventor called fuelink who has made cars using Tesla-technology... I couldn't find anything on the net............... BTW I received a prospectus of the Negre-air-car and I'm thinking of uploading it to my homepage......but I wonder if this is this legal in terms of copy-right and common-sense?? Regards, Aris... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 4 05:47:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA08963; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 05:47:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 05:47:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3757CAE5.E8384E1@cyberia.net.lb> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 15:47:33 +0300 From: Eddy Nassar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: no more mails please Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vUCN-.0.uB2.dhyLt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10708 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: i have been getting millions of forwarded messages from this address. Please if i am Subscribed , then unsubcrsibe me , please just stop sending me mails Thank you ! eddyn@cyberia.net.lb From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 4 11:06:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA22004; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:03:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:03:37 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Fuelink?? and Negre-air... Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:40:38 -0400 Message-ID: <19990604164038562.AAA223@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"YOIeB1.0.MN5.uJ1Mt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10709 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Aris wrote: >BTW I received a prospectus of the Negre-air-car and I'm thinking of >uploading it to my >homepage......but I wonder if this is this legal in terms of copy-right and >common-sense?? > >Regards, > >Aris... You might want to get written permission before putting any copyrighted material on your webpage, especially if you have any more than $500 in assets. Every doctor that I know has been sued at least once _for saving_ their patients. I'm just wrapping up 2 out of 3 lawsuits that I got involved in, and the lawyers made sure that there were plenty of wide open back doors for more suits to come. Just a thought... Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 4 11:38:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA03025; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:38:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:38:04 -0700 Message-ID: <005901beaeb9$8c3021e0$6bb87018@shprd1.on.wave.home.com> From: "Bahamut" To: Subject: Levitation Info Request Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:39:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"L61bA.0.8l.Cq1Mt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10710 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'm sure that many of you have by now see this webpage: http://www-hfml.sci.kun.nl/hfml/levitate.html I'm interested in any more information anyone has regarding this or if anyone has attempted to conduct a similar experiment? Much thanks, Arlo Gingerich arlo@mindless.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 4 12:32:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA28593; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:32:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:32:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199906041932.VAA49524@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: Fuelink?? and Negre-air... Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:34:17 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZnJhh3.0.g-6.zc2Mt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10711 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > You might want to get written permission before putting any copyrighted > material on your webpage, especially if you have any more than $500 in Hmmm $500... In Holland we say one can't get feathers from a bold chicken!! > assets. Every doctor that I know has been sued at least once _for saving_ > their patients. I'm just wrapping up 2 out of 3 lawsuits that I got > involved in, and the lawyers made sure that there were plenty of wide open > back doors for more suits to come. Just a thought... Good thought, I will consider to become a laywer, just for the money!! More serious, this lawyer "thing", seems to me that this really influences "freedom of information"..?? Hmmm a very difficult subject I can imagine... > Knuke From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 4 17:07:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA32213; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:06:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:06:31 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:08:07 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated Resent-Message-ID: <"42wkz2.0.9t7.7e6Mt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10712 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ Most New Data Files are at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT All new revisions are in the file: http://www.padrak.com/ine/REVISIONS.html ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ June 4, 1999 Added: The 1999 INE Conference 1999 AntiGravity Conference New Date: 7th Russian Conference on Cold Nuclear Transmutation, 9/26-10/3/99 Website: Joe Newman's Free Energy Claims- are they valid? Updated: Announcements of Meetings Commercial Sources Information Sources Subjects and Authors New URLs for Edward Lewis in Subjects and Authors. Websites Site Counter = 377,890 June 2, 1999 Added: A New Documentray Videotape on Cold Fusion: Cold Fusion: Fire From Water: The New Videotape By Infinite Energy Magazine Added: NEN TOC Vol. 6, No. 9, May 1999 Suppressed Inventions & Other Discoveries Even Sigmund Freud Commented On The Suppression Of Innovation By Science Transmutation Of Nuclear Waste Light May Slow Down Nucleovoltaic Cell INTERENERGORESURS: Knowledge Knows No Borders And No Limits Defining The Energy Market What If Cold Fusion Is Real? - Wired Magazine Article On The Web!, Nov. 1998 The Cosmic Light: 50th Anniversary Of The Walter Russell Foundation From Global Energy Outlook Freedom In Chains, The Rise Of The State And The Demise Of The Citizen Keeping America Un-Informed: Government Secrecy In The 1980s New Theory On The Bessler/Orffyreus Wheel NASA To Search For Energy Regarding Gravity, The Stevens Device, And Disk-Shaped Magnets Cold Fusion Bibliography New Energy News Bibliography Added: NEN TOC Vol. 6, No. 8, March 1999 Blacklight Power, Inc. The First Commercialization Of A New-Energy Device! Editorial: When Is A Scientist Not A Scientist? Report on 6th Russian Conference on Cold Nuclear Transmutation of Chemical Elements New Energy - Where Is It? Big Bang Theory Disproven Scientifically Jerry Decker About Energy NASA Pledges $600,000 For Antigravity Research Smith Coil Cold Fusion Is Proven Technology (Anthony Sutton's Book) Resonant Frequency Of The Aether Subjects and Authors Site Counter = 377,250 May 19, 1999 Added: The War Against Cold Fusion - What's really behind it? 5/17/99 SF News Revised: The Main Page and the FAQ Page to reflect that INE Members now get 6 NENs per year for 2 years, and no issues of Infinite Energy magazine. Updated: Subjects and Authors Site Counter = 372,488 Apr. 12, 1999 Added: Edward Lewis's summary websites to the main page. Fixed: All files RE refs. to the "Free Energy" videotape. Products Updated: Subjects and Authors Websites Site Counter = 358,582 Mar. 24, 1999 Added: What If Cold Fusion Is Real? - Wired Magazine Article, Nov. 1998 Updated: Subjects and Authors Websites Site Counter = 351,466 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 4 22:36:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA27702; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:36:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 22:36:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990604211119.22d7005c@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 21:11:19 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: RE: Hendershot, parametric tests In-Reply-To: <199906032150.XAA07569@irene.ctv.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"SDpi61.0.lm6.VTBMt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10713 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Vicente and all, At 11:24 PM 6/3/99 +0200, you wrote: >I have two Hendershot schematics at: >http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm > An interesting picture. Do you know the date? The coils looked like the old basketweave type, but the bulb and electrolytic capacitors looked modern. That is the first time I have seen a schematic. Cannot say much about it yet except it appears to be a balanced pair of RF, AF transformers, etc. Have you had any results with your variable capacitor parametric circuit? I tried some varacter circuits, similar to theose described by Fred Epps on Jean-Louis' page, but with a DC bias provision. I never got any f/2 output, my output looked like a variable amplitude sine wave where the zero crossing positions did not vary. Another way to get a variable capacitor is to have one plate fixed and the other connected mechanically to a voice coil of a loudspeaker. This way you can get higher frequencies, up to the frequency response of the speaker. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 5 06:21:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA21159; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 06:19:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 06:19:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199906051319.PAA18436@irene.ctv.es> Old-X-Envelope-To: From: "Vicente Jose Ramos" To: Subject: RE: Hendershot, parametric tests Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:17:31 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"utULg1.0.QA5.uFIMt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10714 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Dave. Yes , This seems a reproduction of the original, I don't know more about these pictures. I remember there are pictures of the original in some place, but I don't remember where... The Variable Capacitor Generator is already patented and was used in early soviet satellites, but not is an O/U device. Maybe Hendershod device was using radium clorhide as dielectric inside the two capacitors forming the two tanks... You must consider something was used to unbalance the system and keep the oscillations. Maybe radium clorhide was used as "catalyzer" not as FUEL. Vicente. ---------- > De: Dave Dameron > A: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Asunto: RE: Hendershot, parametric tests > Fecha: viernes 4 de junio de 1999 23:11 > > Hi Vicente and all, > At 11:24 PM 6/3/99 +0200, you wrote: > > >I have two Hendershot schematics at: > >http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm > > > An interesting picture. Do you know the date? The coils looked like the old > basketweave type, but the bulb and electrolytic capacitors looked modern. > > That is the first time I have seen a schematic. Cannot say much about it > yet except it appears to be a balanced pair of RF, AF transformers, etc. > > Have you had any results with your variable capacitor parametric circuit? I > tried some varacter circuits, similar to theose described by Fred Epps on > Jean-Louis' page, but with a DC bias provision. I never got any f/2 output, > my output looked like a variable amplitude sine wave where the zero > crossing positions did not vary. > > Another way to get a variable capacitor is to have one plate fixed and the > other connected mechanically to a voice coil of a loudspeaker. This way you > can get higher frequencies, up to the frequency response of the speaker. > -Dave > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 5 06:32:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA23554; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 06:30:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 06:30:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199906051329.PAA19177@irene.ctv.es> Old-X-Envelope-To: From: "Vicente Jose Ramos" To: Subject: Barkhausen Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:27:48 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5bYRk1.0.xl5.YPIMt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10715 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all. Someone have and HV gen? Test this... http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/bark.htm Vicente. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 6 13:13:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA09650; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 13:12:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 13:12:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199906062011.WAA07702@irene.ctv.es> Old-X-Envelope-To: From: "Vicente Jose Ramos" To: Subject: test Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:55:42 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DlaZJ.0.hM2.nOjMt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10716 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: test (delete) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 6 19:29:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA15220; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 19:29:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 19:29:10 -0700 Message-ID: <00a801beb08c$fdce0540$b7ec060c@davelook> From: "davelook" To: "FREE ENERGY" Subject: electrostatic generator Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:25:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"N_4K92.0.jj3.svoMt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10717 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I've just bought about $100 worth of 1/4" thick Lexan sheeting and 1/8" thick fiberglass resin sheets. I am going to make an electrostatic generator loosely based on the "Dirod" concept. Instead of charge carriers consisting of 1/4 diameter aluminum rods, I was going to use 10 sectors of aluminum foil per side glued to lexan sheet rotor-disks and spin these between square lexan sheets with aluminum foil also acting as Charge inductors and collectors. The problem is, I've suddenly realized I may be missing a very important point. I know that a wimshurst uses foil segments, and they seem to work OK, BUT am I wasting my time with foil charge collectors? What I mean is, charge always moves to the edge or outside of an object. Are only the very edges of my charge collectors going to act to store charge? If I have, say, a 1 ft diameter disk of metal charged to say 10,000 volts, what percentage of the charge is pushed all the way to the very edge of the disk? What percentage of charge is left 1" from the center? What percentage is left in the next 3'' ring outward? Approximately. Thanks in advance, Dave L. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 7 14:17:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA25011; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:15:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:15:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199906072114.XAA13895@irene.ctv.es> Old-X-Envelope-To: From: "Vicente Jose Ramos" To: Subject: Everybody's dead? Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:53:12 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kLxiX.0.d66.eP3Nt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10718 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I'm the only human in the Earth? No new messages from list in three days!!! Vicente. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 7 14:24:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA29298; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:22:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:22:28 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Everybody's dead? Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:27:00 -0400 Message-ID: <19990607212700625.AAA285@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"uPOSq1.0.h97.KW3Nt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10719 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vicente wrote: >Hi, I'm the only human in the Earth? No new messages from list in three >days!!! >Vicente. Didn't they tell you? We're all on the moon now.:-) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 7 14:35:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA32561; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:32:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:32:57 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <2e9ccd2b.248d9454@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:32:04 EDT Subject: Re: Everybody's dead? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vramos@ctv.es MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Resent-Message-ID: <"1zyAj1.0.gy7.8g3Nt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10720 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 07/06/99 23:18:26, vramos@ctv.es wrote : > Hi, I'm the only human in the Earth? No new messages from list in three > days!!! No I am always here... :-) but very busy on my ARDA Project... My ARDA v2.0 mk2 the EHD flying wing is now finished at 98%, the first flight is now planned for the June 13th, 1999..... look at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ardav22.htm I shall keep you informed, stay tuned on this list... Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 7 14:49:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA06820; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:47:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:47:26 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990607174421.00952c80@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 17:44:44 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: Re: Everybody's dead? In-Reply-To: <199906072114.XAA13895@irene.ctv.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"oGU9n3.0.Tg1.kt3Nt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10721 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ooh..it's a conspiracy :] but really..where'd everyone go? >Hi, I'm the only human in the Earth? No new messages from list in three >days!!! >Vicente. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 7 15:53:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA02610; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:52:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:52:20 -0700 From: MATTIARO@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:51:40 EDT Subject: Re: Everybody's dead? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"s8xkJ3.0.Ze.Zq4Nt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10722 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Aybe everybody is learning the cause for the meters' over reading, and trying to adjust the SWR and finding out that the OU in Newmans (and many others) actually does not exist. :-) Matti From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 7 17:33:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA07673; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:33:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:33:09 -0700 Message-ID: <19990608003237.4158.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.6] From: flytch er To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Everybody's dead? Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 17:32:36 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"LO28x.0.ot1.5J6Nt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10723 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Someone said shut up and we did!!!! >From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Everybody's dead? >Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:27:00 -0400 > >Vicente wrote: > >Hi, I'm the only human in the Earth? No new messages from list in three > >days!!! > >Vicente. > >Didn't they tell you? We're all on the moon now.:-) > >Knuke > > >Michael T. Huffman >Huffman Technology Company >1121 Dustin Drive >The Villages, Florida 32159 >(352)259-1276 >knuke@LCIA.COM >http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 7 21:53:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA18660; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:50:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:50:58 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Everybody's dead? Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 00:55:28 -0400 Message-ID: <19990608045528890.AAA204@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"H3Tar2.0.GZ4.n4ANt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10724 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Matti wrote: >Aybe everybody is learning the cause for the meters' over reading, and trying >to adjust the SWR and finding out that the OU in Newmans (and many others) >actually does not exist. :-) > > Matti Hi Matti, It's not clear to me that the meters are over reading, so much as it is clear that in arc experiments, the meters are just not up to the task and are being improperly interpreted. It seems that the meters may be over reading in some circumstances and under reading in others. This is largely in part due to our paltry understanding of the underlying physics of electricity itself. There is much being learned and observed and reported, and the interpretations of the observations vary. It is not a time to take anything for granted or anyone's interpretation as being the last word. Careful observation and detailed reporting of the facts are, and always have been the bedrock of science. When enough people observe and report the same kind of results, we can add to our understanding of nature and say that we have progressed. I'm not very familiar with Newman's work, even after it has been discussed to such great length in this forum, and in the Vortex Group. I basically avoided reading it because of the shouting matches that ensued between the two opposing camps, and that most of the information that I read, in fact nearly all of it, had to do with patent suppression, legal battles, and a lot of other unpleasant things. I have enough of those in my own life, and would like to see more of the actual science of the device discussed. One thing that I did notice about the Newman device is that it has one heck of a lot of copper wire, and if I had the time to look at a detailed set of construction plans, and the operating protocol, I may be able to add some insight (or at least another opinion) as to what is happening in his device in light of some of the more recent discoveries. I just don't want to waste my time reading a bunch of political stuff. I find the ARDA fascinating, the Brown's/Rhodes gas, and the Mills Hydrino theories very thought provoking, as well. I think that we are very fortunate to have these people on the various groups who are willing to share what they have found. The discussions on meter design, and power measurement by the people who actually helped design some of them is pretty incredible, too. We might actually learn something here:-) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 7 22:09:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA23520; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:09:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:09:17 -0700 Message-ID: <375CA567.2968A717@technologist.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 22:08:55 -0700 From: Brian Snyder Organization: Ultimate Security Systems Corp. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: TAPPING EARTH'S ENERGY References: <19990608045528890.AAA204@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"O3qhu3.0.Pl5.yLANt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10725 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello All! Im wondering if anyone on this list has checked this out yet? I have no oscilloscope but am interested in knowing whether this can be valid???? Anyone have any info on this?? TAPPING EARTH'S ENERGY "The Prentice Earth Energy Tap," Nexus New Times Magazine, vol 6, no. 1, Dec 98-Jan 99, page 43. EDITOR'S DISCUSSION A Frank Wyatt Prentice patent issued September 18th, 1923, claims that power can be obtained from 500,000 cps energy fluctuations located about six inches above the earth. To tap this energy, Prentice used a half-mile of wire. In addition, he located a closed oscillatory loop antenna 18 feet in length about 20 feet from the "transmission antenna." If this is true, then anyone with a good oscilloscope can put up an 6-inch high line and determine the energy fluctuations at 500 kilohertz. Prentice claims to have been able to power fifty, sixty-watt lamps. In the thirties, Dr. Henry Moray, a Utah scientist was demonstrating the ability to light a bank of lamps in a similar fashion. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 05:01:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA29950; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 05:01:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 05:01:20 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990608075710.0094f820@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 07:58:11 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: Re: Everybody's dead? In-Reply-To: <2e9ccd2b.248d9454@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"r7WCU.0.tJ7.GOGNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10726 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: So you've put in a control system already? i haven't been lookin at the site lately.. >No I am always here... :-) but very busy on my ARDA Project... > >My ARDA v2.0 mk2 the EHD flying wing is now finished at 98%, the first flight >is now planned for the June 13th, 1999..... >look at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ardav22.htm > >I shall keep you informed, stay tuned on this list... > >Best Regards >Jean-Louis Naudin >Email: Jnaudin509@aol.com >Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 06:40:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA25230; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 06:39:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 06:39:21 -0700 Message-ID: <375D1CF7.C0276664@prairienet.org> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 08:39:04 -0500 From: Zack Widup X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TAPPING EARTH'S ENERGY References: <19990608045528890.AAA204@mail.lcia.com@lizard> <375CA567.2968A717@technologist.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YnC_F.0.7A6.9qHNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10727 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Does anyone have the patent number of this invention? I would like to see it. Zack > > TAPPING EARTH'S ENERGY > > "The Prentice Earth Energy Tap," Nexus New Times Magazine, vol 6, no. 1, > Dec 98-Jan 99, page 43. > > EDITOR'S DISCUSSION > > A Frank Wyatt Prentice patent issued September 18th, 1923, claims that > power can be obtained from 500,000 cps energy fluctuations located about > six inches above the earth. To tap this energy, Prentice used a > half-mile of wire. In addition, he located a closed oscillatory loop > antenna 18 feet in length about 20 feet from the "transmission antenna." > If this is true, then anyone with a good oscilloscope can put up an > 6-inch high line and determine the energy fluctuations at 500 kilohertz. > Prentice claims to have been able to power fifty, sixty-watt lamps. In > the thirties, Dr. Henry Moray, a Utah scientist was demonstrating the > ability to light a bank of lamps in a similar fashion. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 07:14:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA05168; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 07:12:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 07:12:49 -0700 Message-ID: <009701beb1b7$47d622a0$28e388d0@paul> From: "Paul Delisle" To: "Free Energy List" Subject: water torch? Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:00:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"HqncM3.0.aG1.XJINt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10728 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jorg, I am referring to the Brown's gas machine for welding. After reading some of the material on Eric Krieg's site about Dennis Lee: http://www.syc.org/e/dennis.html it appears that even though the Brown's gas machine has some very interesting properties it is not very practical commercially. There is an article at this site by an experienced welder. So things don't look to good for Dennis Lee so far. This could of course be a conspiracy against him, but that seem unlikely. On the other hand it would be good to investigate Eric Krieg as well and see if he has any hidden agenda and evaluate the quality of his information. I have read information on his site concerning other matters with which I am very familiar and the information was greatly distorted and exaggerated. Paul >You said: "What do you think of the brown gas torch that Dennis Lee's >>company sells?" >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- - >>Paul: Where did this come from? This is new. You don't mean George >>Wiseman, do you? Thanks for clarifying this. Jorg ostrowski > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 07:31:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA13184; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 07:30:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 07:30:28 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:29:26 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" X-Sender: jdo@acs6.acs.ucalgary.ca To: Paul Delisle Cc: Free Energy List Subject: Re: water torch/Dennis Lee In-Reply-To: <009701beb1b7$47d622a0$28e388d0@paul> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZT9aU.0.vD3.3aINt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10729 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Paul: Further to your note on the above, this product is commercially available in Calgary Alberta Canada. If you need details, I will look it up for you. Does anyone know if Dennis Lee is really ready to go commercial soon? Jorg Ostrowski _________________________________________________________________________ On Tue, 8 Jun 1999, Paul Delisle wrote: > > I am referring to the Brown's gas machine for welding. After reading > some of the material on Eric Krieg's site about Dennis Lee: > http://www.syc.org/e/dennis.html > it appears that even though the Brown's gas machine has some very > interesting properties it is not very practical commercially. There is > an article at this site by an experienced welder. So things don't look > to good for Dennis Lee so far. This could of course be a conspiracy > against him, but that seem unlikely. > > On the other hand it would be good to investigate Eric Krieg as well and > see if he has any hidden agenda and evaluate the quality of his > information. I have read information on his site concerning other > matters with which I am very familiar and the information was greatly > distorted and exaggerated. > > Paul > > > > > >You said: "What do you think of the brown gas torch that Dennis Lee's > >>company sells?" > >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > >>Paul: Where did this come from? This is new. You don't mean George > >>Wiseman, do you? Thanks for clarifying this. Jorg ostrowski > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 08:39:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA06930; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:38:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:38:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199906081538.RAA99275@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: Everybody's dead? Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:41:35 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sEA7H1.0.Bi1.4aJNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10730 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For those who are interested, I'm cracking nuts at the moment!! Aris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 08:56:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA18088; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:56:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:56:19 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Tue, 08 Jun 1999 11:54:26 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Tue, 08 Jun 1999 11:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 11:46:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: CF, a pattern of success? In-reply-to: <375C590B.E946FA8@earthlink.net> To: vortex-l , freenrg-l Cc: melmiles , mike_mckubre Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 11:54:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2086ZXYOH0R2Y X400-MTS-identifier: [;62451180609991/3785297@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"1PB2a1.0.XQ4.ZqJNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10731 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, Has anyone looked for a pattern? In any of the CF experiments that have had any positive results has anyone charted the successes and failures in relation to time. Then tried to find a correlation to anything outside of the test environment. For instance in relation to solar or lunar cycles. 1) There has been discussion here in the past of apparent measurable changes of chemical processes as they relate to the current phase of the moon. An example being in the production of colloidal silver. 2) One could also point to the statistical observation that people are more likely to behave erratically during a full moon. 3) Many mental problems can be related to chemical imbalances. Could not the connection be made between these three observations? May there be a similar effect on the chemical reactions at the nuclear level in CF experiments? Two examples: >Melvin H. Miles [ melmiles@ridgecrest.ca.us, milesmh@navair.navy.mil, >760-939-1652w, 760-371-1766h ], again reported data from runs in 1993 >and 1994 at China Lake that showed helium and excess heat from >electrolysis with Pd and heavy water: 28 of 94 runs had excess heat. >McKubre [ mike_mckubre@qm.sri.com ] of Stanford Research Institute. >About a dozen Case cells have been run, with a success rate of about >one in two or three. Bill webriggs@concentric.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 09:12:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA30510; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:11:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:11:22 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990608120708.00c66280@world.std.com> X-Sender: mica@world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 12:07:08 -0400 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: CF, a pattern of success? Cc: melmiles , mike_mckubre In-Reply-To: References: <375C590B.E946FA8@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Cjbpi2.0.WS7.f2KNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10732 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:46 AM 6/8/99 -0400, Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: >All, > >Has anyone looked for a pattern? In any of the CF experiments that >have had any positive results has anyone charted the successes and >failures in relation to time. Then tried to find a correlation to >anything outside of the test environment. For instance in relation >to solar or lunar cycles. There are simpler scientific explanations to explore before diverging to such irrelevant things. You might consider getting the ICCF-7 Proceedings, or Swartz. M.., 1998, Patterns of Failure in Cold Fusion Experiments, Proceedings of the 33RD Intersociety Engineering Conference on Energy Conversion, IECEC-98-I229, Colorado Springs, CO, August 2-6, 1998. Mitchell Swartz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 09:42:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA16054; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:42:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:42:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990608123413.010e9190@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 12:34:13 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: Everybody's dead? In-Reply-To: <199906081538.RAA99275@poindexter.wirehub.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5cyt.0.lw3.SVKNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10733 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: That's totally amazing! My wife told me that everybody on Freenrg was crackin' nuts, but I never believed her! Colin At 05:41 PM 06/08/99 +0200, Aris wrote: > >For those who are interested, I'm cracking nuts at the moment!! > >Aris > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 09:58:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA24173; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:57:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:57:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199906081657.SAA12366@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: Everybody's dead? Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 19:00:03 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tQhj62.0.Xv5.kjKNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10734 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: And it is really killing me, metaphorically speaking!! :>) ---------- > Van: Aris > Aan: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Onderwerp: Re: Everybody's dead? > Datum: dinsdag 8 juni 1999 17:41 > > > For those who are interested, I'm cracking nuts at the moment!! > > Aris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 12:15:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA01277; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:12:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:12:13 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990608145330.00951830@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 14:58:50 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: HV Experiments In-Reply-To: <199906081657.SAA12366@poindexter.wirehub.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0RbUx.0.qJ.CiMNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10735 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, i got a question for you all... I'm very interested in high voltage and electrostatics/gravitics, and from what i keep reading for building a high voltage generator (tesla coil, van de graaf..), most of them say to use a transformer from an old tv or microwave. I dunno bout you guys, maybe your area has an abundance of used appliances, but where i live it's extremely rare to see these things lying around. TV repair shops won't even give me a flyback transformer. So can anyone help me out with suggestions of sources for parts? Maybe even how to build one? Also, can someone tell me what i should expect when doing these experiments? Like...noise to be expected, how loud a discharge is from a tesla coil...and more importantly...do i need some kind of license to do this stuff? Thanks A Lot -Rymel Just trying to make the list come back again...kinda miss the flood :) Oh, and by the way...i'm not exactly financially well off, i'm just a hobbyist, so please don't tell me to get it from a place that sells them for a lot of money..wouldn't mind knowing about it though From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 12:46:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA27493; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:46:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:46:23 -0700 Message-ID: <19990608194547.5430.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.25] From: flytch er To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HV Experiments Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 12:45:47 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"MUoK72.0.Uj6.DCNNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10736 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hay rymel, Where in the world are you???... I have seen some good buys on TV at yard sells... try church rumage sells... thrift stores... or trash dumpstars behind the local tv repare place ... hear we have a major salvage yard and can buy amost anything by the pound.... cheep!!! lut us know what works for you... :) flytch >Hi, i got a question for you all... > >I'm very interested in high voltage and electrostatics/gravitics, and from >what i keep reading for building a high voltage generator (tesla coil, van >de graaf..), most of them say to use a transformer from an old tv or >microwave. I dunno bout you guys, maybe your area has an abundance of used >appliances, but where i live it's extremely rare to see these things lying >around. TV repair shops won't even give me a flyback transformer. So can >anyone help me out with suggestions of sources for parts? Maybe even how >to build one? Also, can someone tell me what i should expect when doing >these experiments? Like...noise to be expected, how loud a discharge is >from a tesla coil...and more importantly...do i need some kind of license >to do this stuff? > >Thanks A Lot >-Rymel > >Just trying to make the list come back again...kinda miss the flood :) > >Oh, and by the way...i'm not exactly financially well off, i'm just a >hobbyist, so please don't tell me to get it from a place that sells them >for a lot of money..wouldn't mind knowing about it though > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 13:03:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA06679; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:02:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:02:52 -0700 From: "Martin" To: "Keelynet" Cc: Subject: Barkhausen Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:57:33 +0200 Message-ID: <01beb1c7$a082fda0$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZmgsI.0.Ge1.iRNNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10737 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All In view of a recent posting on Bruce Perrault's Barkhausen conversion scheme. I would be interested to know if anyone else has done anywork along these lines or anything similar involving the Barkhausen effect. I have a HV DC source an intend to take a look at this proposed experiment however I would like to avoid repeating others experiments if possible. So far an Internet search has not turned up much of use except the aforementioned experiment and some others involving scalar detectors. Regards Martin http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 13:12:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA00401; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:10:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Everybody's dead? Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:03:43 -0400 Message-ID: <19990608190343921.AAA267@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"zHSGA1.0.66.0ZNNt"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10739 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Aris wrote: >At 05:41 PM 06/08/99 +0200, Aris wrote: >> >>For those who are interested, I'm cracking nuts at the moment!! >> >>Aris If you come across a particularly tough nut to crack, let us know. We have the technology! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 13:13:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA00362; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:10:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: water torch? Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:44:40 -0400 Message-ID: <19990608174440500.AAA204@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"70sFS2.0.U5.wYNNt"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10738 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Paul wrote: >Jorg, > >I am referring to the Brown's gas machine for welding. After reading >some of the material on Eric Krieg's site about Dennis Lee: >http://www.syc.org/e/dennis.html >it appears that even though the Brown's gas machine has some very >interesting properties it is not very practical commercially. There is >an article at this site by an experienced welder. I looked at that stuff by Krieg, too, and I think that some of what he is saying is true. After talking to some people that made devices of their own, and others who bought them from different places, I decided that the torch wasn't the best for every welding application, but there is no method of welding that will work in every situation. Look in any welding book and you'll see 50 different types of welding machines. I wouldn't try to use it to build a boat, for example, but for other things that are difficult to weld, such as dissimilar metals and materials that normally don't weld at all like brick or glass, BG does work according to everyone I've spoken with. There are other uses for it as well in metallurgy, that according to Todd Knudson, are far superior to what that industry now uses. Todd also said that he had used it in combination with arc welders and other gases in ways that greatly improved the abilities of those older welding approaches. We spoke about it's ability to be used in a fuel cell, as well, so there is another entire area to consider. Wiseman just posted some new findings on his website that are quite interesting, and underscore the fact that BG, even after 25+ years, is still something that needs to be examined and developed. There are mysteries about it that still remain for experimenters to uncover. The gas itself evidently has some electrical properties that are unique that Brown or Rhodes may not even have known about. I'm just surprised that industry hasn't picked up on this thing, and developed it like it should have been developed into a widely available commercial product. I'm surprised that the steel and other metal manufacturing industries haven't incorporated it into their manufacturing process lines. As for Kreig, I think it is always good to separate the reality of something from the hype, and from the original hype, I was under the impression that it could do everything. I'm still in the process of gathering information, and materials to build one of my own. It looks like an incredibly easy, and inexpensive project to do, although all of the safety precautions must be observed. For what I want to use it for, I think it will be just the ticket. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 13:32:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA25127; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:32:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:32:22 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990608133038.00968560@pop.netaddress.usa.net> X-Sender: LR@pop.softhome.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 13:35:04 -0400 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: LR Subject: Re: TAPPING EARTH'S ENERGY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9UjkE.0.W86.MtNNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10740 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Zack, Brian and All ! I have the "Frank Wyatt Prentice" patent on paper in my own FE library. The patent name is "Electrical Power Accumulator", by Frank Wyatt Prentice, September 18th, 1923. I think you will not find it on the IBM patent site. A few years ago (june 10th, 1994), I have reproduced the patent on computer and I have uploaded it on Jerry Decker BBS at that time. Make a search on Keelynet Web site. If you cannot find it, I will send you a copy by email. Good luck. Bye! Louis Roy. LR@softhome.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 13:59:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA07767; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:59:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:59:02 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 16:51:17 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: More VACE tests Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"YTCIg3.0.Fv1.LGONt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10741 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave and all, Recognizing my wife's observation that when we get right down to it, we are all just crackin' nuts, :) ..and my perceived need for inexpensive VACE toroids-- and knowledge that an unbroken magnetic circuit will retain it's flux, I tried to magnetize some rather large steel washers with a circular magnetic field. For the magnetizing coil, I used 4 loops of battery cable though the washer holes-- . The 12 Volt battery is brand new, fully charged, and is rated at 850 cold cranking amps. (Deep cycle marine) After application of about one second of current, the 30 inches of cable was warm to the touch. I assumed over 15 Kilowatts flowing. I removed the cable and individually suspended each washer with two threads-- one meter lengths. I observed the washers closely as they were positioned next to each other, but there was no observable interaction. I'm hoping to repeat the experiment with transformer core lamination material, in the future. Have you had any luck with re polling the ceramic ring magnets? Best regards, Colin At 08:31 PM 05/31/99, Dave Dameron wrote: > >I have found some small ceramic ring magnets, but haven't tried to repole >them. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 16:37:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA18460; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:36:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:36:32 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990608162406.009500c0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 19:33:28 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: Re: HV Experiments In-Reply-To: <19990608194547.5430.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA18437 Resent-Message-ID: <"lMofj2.0.GW4.0aQNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10742 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: heh, the 'burbs of nyc. people haven't been replacing tv's lately (they were doin like crazy before i got into this...why'd they stop..) besides that point, and more importantly, i have no job! :Þ and yea i've been to some yard sales, so far no tv's...didn't try the midnight tv repair shop sale tho :]...and where are you from? >Hay rymel, Where in the world are you???... I have seen some good buys on TV >at yard sells... try church rumage sells... thrift stores... or trash >dumpstars behind the local tv repare place ... hear we have a major salvage >yard and can buy amost anything by the pound.... cheep!!! > >lut us know what works for you... :) > >flytch > >>Hi, i got a question for you all... >> >>I'm very interested in high voltage and electrostatics/gravitics, and from >>what i keep reading for building a high voltage generator (tesla coil, van >>de graaf..), most of them say to use a transformer from an old tv or >>microwave. I dunno bout you guys, maybe your area has an abundance of used >>appliances, but where i live it's extremely rare to see these things lying >>around. TV repair shops won't even give me a flyback transformer. So can >>anyone help me out with suggestions of sources for parts? Maybe even how >>to build one? Also, can someone tell me what i should expect when doing >>these experiments? Like...noise to be expected, how loud a discharge is >>from a tesla coil...and more importantly...do i need some kind of license >>to do this stuff? >> >>Thanks A Lot >>-Rymel >> >>Just trying to make the list come back again...kinda miss the flood :) >> >>Oh, and by the way...i'm not exactly financially well off, i'm just a >>hobbyist, so please don't tell me to get it from a place that sells them >>for a lot of money..wouldn't mind knowing about it though >> > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 17:50:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA12815; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:49:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:49:34 -0700 Message-ID: <19990609004902.48055.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.83] From: flytch er To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HV Experiments Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 17:49:01 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"wnzqo2.0.683.UeRNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10743 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Rymel, I'm in san luis obispo, CA that's 1/2 between san fran and la... since your unemployed and do electronics.... why not apply at your local repair shop.... fix'n tv's is easy.... and you can gather all the scraps you need.... in fact if their are busy try offering your sweeping services for an exchange... most small businesses have odd jobs and if they don't have to lay out any $$$$$ they are happy to train you.... think of it as free class at summer school... flytch.... >heh, the 'burbs of nyc. people haven't been replacing tv's lately (they >were doin like crazy before i got into this...why'd they stop..) besides >that point, and more importantly, i have no job! : >and yea i've been to some yard sales, so far no tv's...didn't try the >midnight tv repair shop sale tho :]...and where are you from? _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 19:33:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20022; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 19:33:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 19:33:33 -0700 Message-ID: <375DD226.A138DFC3@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 21:32:06 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TAPPING EARTH'S ENERGY References: <4.1.19990608133038.00968560@pop.netaddress.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BQr7c1.0.du4.y9TNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10744 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Here is the entire patent; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/prentice.htm -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 19:58:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA05679; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 19:57:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 19:57:46 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <81cd9c86.248f31c7@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:56:07 EDT Subject: Re: HV Experiments To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Resent-Message-ID: <"_KcNV1.0.eO1.fWTNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10745 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/8/99 12:48:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, flytch@hotmail.com writes: << Also, can someone tell me what i should expect when doing >these experiments? Like...noise to be expected, how loud a discharge is >from a tesla coil...and more importantly...do i need some kind of license >to do this stuff? > >Thanks A Lot >-Rymel >> If you are in the US, and I would guess most anywhere, you don't need a license unless there is some sort of local ordinance regulating electronic experiments (which I have never heard of, but stranger laws exist), BUT do be sure you know what you are doing. HV circuits can be dangerous --- ken keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 21:08:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA31238; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 21:08:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 21:08:16 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: HV Experiments Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 00:12:50 -0400 Message-ID: <19990609041250625.AAA271@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"-n1J12.0._d7.lYUNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10746 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rymel wrote: I dunno bout you guys, maybe your area has an abundance of used >appliances, but where i live it's extremely rare to see these things lying >around. TV repair shops won't even give me a flyback transformer. So can >anyone help me out with suggestions of sources for parts? Maybe even how >to build one? Also, can someone tell me what i should expect when doing >these experiments? Like...noise to be expected, how loud a discharge is >from a tesla coil...and more importantly...do i need some kind of license >to do this stuff? > >Thanks A Lot >-Rymel Hi Rymel, >From your e-mail address, I gather you are living in the US, which produces the most trash per capita of any nation in the world. While salvaging junk has become a cottage industry, and a TV repair shop will probably keep any component that still functions because it is cheaper than ordering new parts, it's because _that is their business_. There is no end to the junk that you can find if you know where to look. I was born in Gary, Indiana, which IS a landfill. Ask your garbage man where to find stuff. As for the license, no, they haven't figured out a way to regulate guys like us:-) but you should use your head. If you damage the power company's lines, make a big stink, or even just freak out the neighbors, you could be charged in a civil action and fined. You could also hurt someone or yourself, so read as much as you can before you start building anything and go flipping HV switches, and be careful. If you are not sure about something, ask questions. A lot of guys here have built that kind of stuff, and are glad to help you. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 22:50:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA23604; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:49:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:49:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 21:22:28 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: More VACE tests In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"3e7741.0.jm5.v1WNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10747 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Colin and all, At 04:51 PM 6/8/99 -0700, you wrote: >Recognizing my wife's observation that when we get right down to it, we are >all just crackin' nuts, :) >..and my perceived need for inexpensive VACE toroids-- and knowledge that >an unbroken magnetic circuit will retain it's flux, I tried to magnetize >some rather large steel washers with a circular magnetic field. > >For the magnetizing coil, I used 4 loops of battery cable though the washer >holes-- . >The 12 Volt battery is brand new, fully charged, and is rated at 850 cold >cranking amps. (Deep cycle marine) >After application of about one second of current, the 30 inches of cable >was warm to the touch. I assumed over 15 Kilowatts flowing. Meaning over 15/12 Kiloamps? I bet the cables would get warm! To estimate the current, I would calculate the resistance of a short length of the cable, then measure the voltage drop along this length. Whatever the current was, maybe >1000Amps, I would guess it would be enough to magnetically saturate the washer. Think soft steel needs only approx. 500 Amp-turns/meter to saturate. Why do you think it would retain its flux? >I removed the cable and individually suspended each washer with two >threads-- one meter lengths. >I observed the washers closely as they were positioned next to each other, >but there was no observable interaction. An interesting test. For this reason (not knowing if the lack or interaction is from lack of flux) and leakage flux from my Alnico "toroids", I went to one circuit being electric, so I could toggle it on/off, makes it much more easy to see small static deflections. Otherwise you would carefully move one close to the other and see if the second shows any deflection. > >I'm hoping to repeat the experiment with transformer core lamination >material, in the future. I would guess they would be worse than the soft steel, one characteristic of less hysteresis material is less remanent field. > >Have you had any luck with re polling the ceramic ring magnets? No, but I have been trying to find the type of ferrites used in computer core memory, which were poled in just this fashion. To tell if they were poled, a sense voltage was detected when the toroid was repoled in the opposite direction. These toroids were small, typically 1mm or smaller outer diameter. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 23:29:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA31500; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:27:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:27:00 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. Message-ID: <012501beb241$00f49580$431bc018@vic.bigpond.net.au> From: "Robin van Spaandonk" To: References: <4.1.19990608133038.00968560@pop.netaddress.usa.net> <375DD226.A138DFC3@keelynet.com> Subject: Re: TAPPING EARTH'S ENERGY Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:26:26 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"O1_iG.0.0i7.qaWNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10748 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For those looking for a mile long wire, if you live in the country, you might be lucky enough to be able to make use of the bottom strand of a long wire fence. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 23:41:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA01982; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:41:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:41:01 -0700 Message-ID: <19990609064029.51164.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.96] From: flytch er To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TAPPING EARTH'S ENERGY Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 23:40:29 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"QQbip2.0.tU.znWNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10749 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >For those looking for a mile long wire, if you live in the country, you >might be lucky enough to be able to make use of the bottom strand of a >long wire fence. > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk Robin, wouldn't it have to be insolated ?????...ie. fences are usually very well grounded..... flytch... _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 8 23:53:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA04886; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:53:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:53:09 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. Message-ID: <015101beb244$a6496260$431bc018@vic.bigpond.net.au> From: "Robin van Spaandonk" To: References: <19990609064029.51164.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: TAPPING EARTH'S ENERGY Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:52:31 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"bqfoO2.0.EC1.LzWNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10750 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: flytch er > Robin, wouldn't it have to be insolated ?????...ie. fences are usually very > well grounded..... flytch... [snip] See if you can find one that has wooden posts. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 9 01:22:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA19601; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 01:21:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 01:21:40 -0700 Message-ID: <19990609082109.80159.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.131] From: flytch er To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TAPPING EARTH'S ENERGY Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 01:21:09 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"7fAze2.0.Ao4.KGYNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10751 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >See if you can find one that has wooden posts. > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk wooden posts wont do as they are still grounded .... try string an electric fence to wooden posts.... doesn't work.... ttfn, flytch... _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 9 01:59:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA23406; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 01:58:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 01:58:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199906090858.KAA18908@poindexter.wirehub.nl> From: "Aris" To: Subject: Re: Everybody's dead? Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:00:31 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ua4WA1.0.Zj5.8pYNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10752 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > If you come across a particularly tough nut to crack, let us know. We have > the technology! Actually I am looking for Borg assimilation technology, can you get me some? Aris [resistance is futile] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 9 04:52:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA12987; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 04:51:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 04:51:37 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. Message-ID: <015701beb26e$59c54600$431bc018@vic.bigpond.net.au> From: "Robin van Spaandonk" To: References: <19990609082109.80159.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: TAPPING EARTH'S ENERGY Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 21:51:01 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"VNZUZ1.0.qA3.8LbNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10753 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: flytch er > wooden posts wont do as they are still grounded .... try string an electric > fence to wooden posts.... doesn't work.... It does if it's an old fence, where the timber has had years to dry out. Me again. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 9 05:58:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA12564; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 05:56:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 05:56:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000a01beb277$4bf43320$dd1b16cb@ppp.lm.net.au> From: "Roger Weichert" To: Subject: Re:Hendershot Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 22:24:09 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"KZFd_2.0.943.8IcNt"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10754 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: snip G'day Alan and welcome, I was really interested to read of your results with the Hendershot Gen. having myself built two versions of his device (but with no result so far) Having tried several variations of the circuit I would be most interested to know which one you used? There are many other questions I would ask regarding some of the finer points of construction, so if you do go ahead and put up a web page I'll be hanging out to see it. I also bought Mark's book and have spoken to him several times on the phone. Seeing the details of his fathers first generator (in this book) got me interested in attempting to replicate it, but again no results. My idea being that it should be easier to get a result with a first generation type device than his more complicated (albeit much higher output) generator of the late 50's. Despite all this I still firmly believe there is something to it and your email is great encouragement. Regards Roger Weichert >>Hi all, >>At 05:44 PM 6/1/99 -0700, Alan wrote: >>>Hi Ken/Dave/et al, >>> >>>Have you ever looked into the works of Lester Hendershot? I know a lot of >>>people think he was a fraud but I built one of his devices and had some >>>success with it, ( all be it, meager ); thus I feel there's something to >>>what he was doing; what though??? >I constructed a set of Hendershot coils...basket weave...with internal >capacitors, etc.. Upon completion, I was able to measure a constant output >of both voltage/amperage. The levels were low...high levels at hundreds of >millis on both v/a...but it was constant and was charging the caps >associated with the circuit with no external energy input. I never did >figure out where the energy was coming from...thought maybe induction from >wiring or local radio station but it was neither of these...and like to >believe it was aether related. The strangest thing was the effect people, >weather, lunar phase and/or orientation would have on the device. Never got >any usable power out of it though and I eventually abandoned it to pursue >electromedicine. > >I did purchase a manual that was put out by Mark Hendershot after I began >work on the device and it included pictures/diagrams of both the device and >of the motor I mentioned earlier. The same information used to be available >on the net; I'll look around and see if I can find something. I've seen >some info through Borderlands but know nothing of Rex. Do you have an addy >for them? > >I believe that Hendershot may have actually been onto something...based on >the available information, everything in his device precisely coincided with >the current harmonic theories advanced by several individuals...but I think >he utilized radium chloride, which is a powerful emitter of alpha particles >and was commonly available as paint during his time, to generate the levels >of power he did. > >Anyway, I appreciate the feedback and wish you success...be it little or >great...in all your ventures. > >Best regards, > >Alan > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 9 10:32:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA04591; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:28:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:28:25 -0700 From: "Martin" To: "Keelynet" Cc: Subject: Koenig Winding Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 19:25:21 +0200 Message-ID: <01beb29d$0d885280$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"665Ef1.0.e71.uGgNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10755 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All Regarding US Patent 4806834 the Koenig Winding. Has this thing finally been discredited? I have to rewind a transformer here and was wondering if it was worth trying. Of course if it has been tried and discredited I won't bother. Regards Martin http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 9 12:33:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA29585; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:33:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:33:30 -0700 Posted-Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 22:28:11 +0400 (MEDT) Message-ID: <375EC140.9CA34AE2@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 22:32:16 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Koenig Winding References: <01beb29d$0d885280$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fOzEA2.0.AE7.96iNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10756 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Martin wrote: > > Hi All > > Regarding US Patent 4806834 the Koenig Winding. Has this thing finally been > discredited? I have to rewind a transformer here and was wondering if it was > worth trying. Of course if it has been tried and discredited I won't bother. > > Regards > Martin > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ It appears some ambiguities on the patent text. Only voltage and DC resistance figures are mentioned, nothing about current figures. I suspect the author missed some basics on the scope of the knowledge the patent covers. But anyway design arguments not suffice to discredit the invention. Interestingly there two other patent to reference this one. One is ferroresonant transformer. Worth to look more clossely. Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 9 15:13:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA31267; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:12:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:12:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 18:04:24 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: More VACE tests In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8AUop3.0.Re7.sQkNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10757 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Dave and all, At 09:22 PM 06/08/99, you wrote: >Why do you think it would retain its flux? Because of something that I read right here. I wish I could remember who noted the phenomena just a few weeks ago on freeng-L: A closed ferrite core, when opened [after a significantly long duration]-- gives up an EM pulse to it's coil. Who said it? Also-- I was mentioning this to an old experimenter friend. (He has a Phd in physics and many patents under his belt,) and he told me yes-- in fact, that his soft iron electromagnet retains it's flux LONG after the current stops, but ONLY when the magnetic circuit is tightly closed-- IOW, his [soft-iron] magnetic poles must be bridged with a perfectly fitting [soft-iron] slug. The soft iron of his electromagnet normally does not retain ANY residual magnetism. He also noted this same [flux retention] phenomena with an ordinary flyback transformer. That's three experiments all showing the same thing, so I'm convinced that it's real-- but of course I know nothing about the percentage of saturation of retention with this method, since it is SFAIK-- a new phenomena. >>I'm hoping to repeat the experiment with transformer core lamination >>material, in the future. > >I would guess they would be worse than the soft steel, one characteristic >of less hysteresis material is less remanent field. It is only the path of the magnetic circuit that is responsible for this particular flux retention-- it must be tightly closed. I'm expecting that transformer core iron will saturate with more flux than will a standard steel washer. Colin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 9 15:56:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA19856; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:55:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:55:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199906092257.TAA25404@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 19:58:44 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Koenig ... Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Resent-Message-ID: <"eGkOM.0.4s4.-3lNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10758 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Courier NewFrom: 0000,0000,8000"Marcelo Puhl" < Organization: 0000,0000,8000Computec Ltda To: 0000,0000,8000freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date sent: 0000,0000,8000Wed, 9 Jun 1999 19:42:28 - 3 Subject: 0000,0000,8000Re: Koenig Winding Send reply to: 0000,0000,8000mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: 0000,0000,8000normal 0000,0000,FF00> > Hi All > > > > Regarding US Patent 4806834 the Koenig Winding. Has this thing finally > > been discredited? I have to rewind a transformer here and was wondering > > if it was worth trying. Of course if it has been tried and discredited I > > won't bother. > > > > Regards > > Martin > > 0000,8000,0000http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7 919/ 0000,0000,FF00> > It appears some ambiguities on the patent text. Only voltage and DC > resistance figures are mentioned, nothing about current figures. I suspect > the author missed some basics on the scope of the knowledge the patent > covers. > > But anyway design arguments not suffice to discredit the invention. > Interestingly there two other patent to reference this one. One is > ferroresonant transformer. Worth to look more clossely. > > Regards, hamdi ucar > Take a look at the INE website. I found a file there where the Koenig patent is described. I didn't understand it. They put four times input power on an eletromagnet to obtain just the double magnetic flux. And they say the efficience was increased. 0000,8000,0000http://www.padrak.com/ine/KOENIG.html http://www.padrak.com/ine/KOENIG2.html --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 9 16:28:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA01910; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:27:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:27:54 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. Message-ID: <002501beb2cf$9d6b9380$431bc018@vic.bigpond.net.au> From: "Robin van Spaandonk" To: References: <199906092257.TAA25404@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Subject: Re: Koenig ... Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:27:17 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01BEB323.6EAB4D20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"datOi.0.lT.vXlNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10759 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BEB323.6EAB4D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you double the voltage across *any* coil, the current will double = (and so also will the magnetic field), and the power will go up four times. Same power consumption increase, = same mag. field increase, no need to change coil configuration. No magic. The only question is whether or not the coil can handle the = extra heat. This problem is common to both configurations. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BEB323.6EAB4D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you double the voltage across *any* coil, the = current=20 will double (and so also will the magnetic field),
and the power will go up four times. Same power=20 consumption increase, same mag. field increase, no need to change coil=20 configuration.
No magic. The only question is whether or not = the coil can=20 handle the extra heat. This problem is common to both=20 configurations.
 
Regards,
 
Robin van Spaandonk
------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BEB323.6EAB4D20-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 9 16:30:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA03714; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:30:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:30:27 -0700 Message-ID: <00bf01beb2cf$a5b48c40$2001a8c0@corpsys.com> From: "Dennis Kerrisk" To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> Subject: Re: More VACE tests Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:27:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"Viegp3.0.pv.JalNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10760 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Isn't that the same principal that core memory used to work on. I know that whan power was removed from it , the data was retained. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Quinney To: Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 1999 6:04 PM Subject: Re: More VACE tests > To Dave and all, > > At 09:22 PM 06/08/99, you wrote: > >Why do you think it would retain its flux? > > Because of something that I read right here. I wish I could remember who > noted the phenomena just a few weeks ago on freeng-L: A closed ferrite > core, when opened [after a significantly long duration]-- gives up an EM > pulse to it's coil. Who said it? > > Also-- I was mentioning this to an old experimenter friend. (He has a Phd > in physics and many patents under his belt,) and he told me yes-- in fact, > that his soft iron electromagnet retains it's flux LONG after the current > stops, but ONLY when the magnetic circuit is tightly closed-- IOW, his > [soft-iron] magnetic poles must be bridged with a perfectly fitting > [soft-iron] slug. The soft iron of his electromagnet normally does not > retain ANY residual magnetism. He also noted this same [flux retention] > phenomena with an ordinary flyback transformer. That's three experiments > all showing the same thing, so I'm convinced that it's real-- but of course > I know nothing about the percentage of saturation of retention with this > method, since it is SFAIK-- a new phenomena. > > >>I'm hoping to repeat the experiment with transformer core lamination > >>material, in the future. > > > >I would guess they would be worse than the soft steel, one characteristic > >of less hysteresis material is less remanent field. > > It is only the path of the magnetic circuit that is responsible for this > particular flux retention-- it must be tightly closed. > I'm expecting that transformer core iron will saturate with more flux than > will a standard steel washer. > > Colin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 9 18:20:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA12278; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:19:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:19:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990609211146.00874820@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 21:11:46 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: More VACE tests In-Reply-To: <00bf01beb2cf$a5b48c40$2001a8c0@corpsys.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qSSby2.0.k_2.UAnNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10761 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:27 PM 06/09/99 -0700, Dennis wrote: >Isn't that the same principal that core memory used to work on. I know >that whan power was removed from it , the data was retained. > >Dennis >> I know nothing about the percentage of saturation of retention with this >> method, since it is SFAIK-- a new phenomena. >> Oops-- Yes. As a matter of fact, that's also what Dave Dameron mentioned. Yes-- it's not a new phenomena. It's only new in trying to try scale it up to a 3 inch toroid washer-type VACE holding 2 to 6000 gauss. I'm still searching my parts bin for an old transformer to dismantle :-) Colin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 9 20:06:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA31387; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 20:03:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 20:03:37 -0700 Message-ID: <375F0131.21EB@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 20:05:05 -0400 From: Alik Shereshevsky Reply-To: alik@intergate.bc.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Koenig Winding References: <01beb29d$0d885280$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> <375EC140.9CA34AE2@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QfS1n2.0.Dg7.8ioNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10762 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > But anyway design arguments not suffice to discredit the invention. Interestingly there two other patent to reference this one. One is ferroresonant transformer. Worth to look more clossely. > > Regards, hamdi ucar The patent is ridiculous except for one thing, the winding arrangement resembles the Smith or Caduceus coil. I doubt however that the author had a foggy clue what they were doing. Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 9 20:40:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA18612; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 20:39:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 20:39:55 -0700 Message-ID: <001901beb2f7$19abac60$7e7988d1@monorailpc> From: "code" To: Subject: Re: Re:Hendershot Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 21:09:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"X1T7p.0.jY4.BEpNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10763 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Roger, Thanx for the feedback. I'll try to address your questions below... > >G'day Alan and welcome, > >I was really interested to read of your results with the Hendershot Gen. >having myself built two versions of his device (but with no result so far) > I just constructed the one...based on the old unit...but spent several months researching what information I could find on Hendershot's works and concluded that he designed the whole thing around the harmonics of light. I constructed my device on this basis and...as stated...had meager success. >Having tried several variations of the circuit I would be most interested to >know which one you used? I started with the original diagrams that were in the manual by Mark Hendershot but had no success and found some problems with both the original and Mark's modification. I recall tracing the circuits and it became apparent that the flows bucked each other. I don't have the information/diagrams in front of me but I recall modifying the circuit to allow for a continuous flow through the entire circuit without the bucking aspect. This included reversals at several points but I'm not certain where. I also changed the number of windings in the main coils and the size of wire used, plus changed the value/type of secondary capacitors and xfmrs. > >There are many other questions I would ask regarding some of the finer >points of construction, so if you do go ahead and put up a web page I'll be >hanging out to see it. I appreciate the support. It may be a little while before I actaully get the site set up...I'm in transition now...but hopefully, it should be up by month's end. > >I also bought Mark's book and have spoken to him several times on the phone. >Seeing the details of his fathers first generator (in this book) got me >interested in attempting to replicate it, but again no results. My idea >being that it should be easier to get a result with a first generation type >device than his more complicated (albeit much higher output) generator of >the late 50's. I tried contacting Mark several times but...sadly...never got in touch with him. I got in touch with someone who reportedly got in touch with him and said he had a working device for sale for $5000. I opted to spend considerably less, buy the manual and build my own device. > >Despite all this I still firmly believe there is something to it and your >email is great encouragement. I, too, feel there is something to Hendershot's device. I'm not certain if he used radium or not...it would certainly explain a lot...but I am certain that, either by coincidence or design, he used the harmonics of light in the construction of his device; I believe this is key. Thanx again and I look forward to sharing more in the future. Best regards, Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 9 23:50:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA24007; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 23:50:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 23:50:20 -0700 From: Trevmaniac@aol.com Message-ID: <17eeeae4.2490b9d3@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 02:48:51 EDT Subject: Re: electrostatic generator To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZMLjd.0.ws5.h0sNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10764 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave, I built a Dirod generator just a few months ago. Mine is loosely based on the Radial Dirod Junior, but with two 10 inch diameter rotors. I use the output of one rotor to keep both sets of inductors charged. I extract useful voltage from the remaining rotor, currently about 45,000 volts before I burn through insulation, etc. It is important to eliminate sharp edges as much as possible or you will induce corona discharge. If you do use flat surfaces, you will need to apply Corona Dope or silicone glue etc around the perimeter. But this could cause you to have larger gaps than necessary between inductors and foils or collectors and foils. This in turn will reduce the voltage output of your machine. Flat surface inductors are OK in principle, provided the edges are treated. Flat surface collectors will not work in my opinion. Collectors work on the principle of the Faraday cage. A brush is used to draw the charge from the rod to the inside of the Faraday cage. Once there, it will migrate to the outside of the Faraday cage. A flat surface collector will not work because the potential of the surface will soon exceed the potential of the rod or foil it is trying to pull charge from. In my design I used about 8 inches of 1/4 inch copper rod bent into a hoop. I then soldered a copper plate to one side. I used one of these arrangements on each side of the rotor and had them electrically connected with some more rod. I had a brush running from the inside surface of one of the plates out to the spinning rotor. To answer your question about the voltage gradient on a flat surface, I suspect it will stay fairly uniform. But that can mean uniformly low, if the charge manages to escape at the edges. In summary I would say: Redesign your collectors for sure. Get as close to a metal box as possible but with rounded edges. Keep your inductors as flat plates but put a fat bead of RTV silicone adhesive around the edges. The disk may be OK with minor RTV treatment of the foil edges. It would be best if you could first glue each foil segment to a piece of cardboard of the same shape but just a shade smaller, and then glue the cardboard to the disk. That way the foil will step down at the edges, and you can fill the gaps between the segments with RTV etc. Hope this helps. Trevor PS Let me know how things go! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 01:08:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA04117; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:03:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:03:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 22:38:17 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: More VACE tests In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> References: <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"OUo8k1.0.E01.Q5tNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10765 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Colin and all, At 06:04 PM 6/9/99 -0700, you wrote: >>Why do you think it would retain its flux? > >Because of something that I read right here. I wish I could remember who >noted the phenomena just a few weeks ago on freeng-L: A closed ferrite >core, when opened [after a significantly long duration]-- gives up an EM >pulse to it's coil. Who said it? If I remember right, it was shorting (or opening) a secondary winding after everything had settled down, and seeing a primary pulse? > >Also-- I was mentioning this to an old experimenter friend. (He has a Phd >in physics and many patents under his belt,) and he told me yes-- in fact, >that his soft iron electromagnet retains it's flux LONG after the current >stops, but ONLY when the magnetic circuit is tightly closed-- IOW, his >[soft-iron] magnetic poles must be bridged with a perfectly fitting >[soft-iron] slug. The soft iron of his electromagnet normally does not >retain ANY residual magnetism. I tried this, and could detect some residual B field by the force on a keeper. So you are right. It was a small amount of force compared to the force required to remove the keeper when the electromagnet was on, and decayed in seconds once the keeper was removed. I have no numerical force measurements. I would say it is still retentivity but in a closed circuit configuration. (Retentivity = B field remaining with H field (amp-turns/meter) removed) He also noted this same [flux retention] >phenomena with an ordinary flyback transformer. I also tried this with zero force detected with current off. There must however be some saturation effect, as the ferrite "U" pieces in a flyback transformer normally have pieces of paper or plastic separating them. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 04:25:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA28267; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 04:22:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 04:22:44 -0700 Message-ID: <002801beb334$42b0b1e0$e31b16cb@ppp.lm.net.au> From: "Roger Weichert" To: Subject: Re: Re:Hendershot Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:57:43 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ahLZE2.0.av6.30wNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10766 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: G'day Alan, Thanks for your response. I shall wait until you get an opportunity to put the info on line. I also have wondered at times about the use of radioactive material, but had dismissed it because I was sure that some of the guys associated with him would have twigged to it. Ed Skilling and Arthur Aho both independantly built generators under Hendershot's instructions and whilst not being able to get them working (themselves) watched while Hendershot coaxed them into life. I started with the circuits from the Rex Research material and like you couldn't get any results. So I redrew every circuit that I could find into a common format and then was able to compare them a bit more easily. Even after that the circuits still didn't make sense, so I redrew it to what I thought looked symetrical etc. but having tried them all with no success I put things on hold. Regards Roger. >Hi Roger, > >Thanx for the feedback. I'll try to address your questions below... > > >> >>G'day Alan and welcome, >> >>I was really interested to read of your results with the Hendershot Gen. >>having myself built two versions of his device (but with no result so far) >> > >I just constructed the one...based on the old unit...but spent several >months researching what information I could find on Hendershot's works and >concluded that he designed the whole thing around the harmonics of light. I >constructed my device on this basis and...as stated...had meager success. > > >>Having tried several variations of the circuit I would be most interested >to >>know which one you used? > >I started with the original diagrams that were in the manual by Mark >Hendershot but had no success and found some problems with both the original >and Mark's modification. I recall tracing the circuits and it became >apparent that the flows bucked each other. I don't have the >information/diagrams in front of me but I recall modifying the circuit to >allow for a continuous flow through the entire circuit without the bucking >aspect. This included reversals at several points but I'm not certain >where. I also changed the number of windings in the main coils and the size >of wire used, plus changed the value/type of secondary capacitors and xfmrs. > > >> >>There are many other questions I would ask regarding some of the finer >>points of construction, so if you do go ahead and put up a web page I'll be >>hanging out to see it. > >I appreciate the support. It may be a little while before I actaully get >the site set up...I'm in transition now...but hopefully, it should be up by >month's end. > >> >>I also bought Mark's book and have spoken to him several times on the >phone. >>Seeing the details of his fathers first generator (in this book) got me >>interested in attempting to replicate it, but again no results. My idea >>being that it should be easier to get a result with a first generation type >>device than his more complicated (albeit much higher output) generator of >>the late 50's. > >I tried contacting Mark several times but...sadly...never got in touch with >him. I got in touch with someone who reportedly got in touch with him and >said he had a working device for sale for $5000. I opted to spend >considerably less, buy the manual and build my own device. > > >> >>Despite all this I still firmly believe there is something to it and your >>email is great encouragement. > >I, too, feel there is something to Hendershot's device. I'm not certain if >he used radium or not...it would certainly explain a lot...but I am certain >that, either by coincidence or design, he used the harmonics of light in the >construction of his device; I believe this is key. > > >Thanx again and I look forward to sharing more in the future. > > >Best regards, > >Alan > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 08:16:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA07017; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:15:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:15:12 -0700 Posted-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:10:39 +0400 (MEDT) Message-ID: <375F84C6.152BD11B@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:26:30 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Koenig Winding References: <01beb29d$0d885280$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> <375EC140.9CA34AE2@verisoft.com.tr> <375F0131.21EB@intergate.bc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"F6WDC.0.Yj1._PzNt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10767 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alik Shereshevsky wrote: > > > > > But anyway design arguments not suffice to discredit the invention. Interestingly there two other patent to reference this one. One is ferroresonant transformer. Worth to look more clossely. > > > > Regards, hamdi ucar > > The patent is ridiculous except for one thing, the winding > arrangement resembles the Smith or Caduceus coil. Yes, ridiculous and claims does not makes sense. However author may had found something valuable in his experiments. But may had failed to reflect this to the patent. But more probable that is you state: > I doubt however that the author had a foggy clue what they were doing. > > Alik S. Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 10:07:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA29781; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:06:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:06:59 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01beb36c$6144eee0$546154d8@monorailpc> From: "code" To: Subject: Re: Re:Hendershot Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:09:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"fGQKC2.0.iG7.o2_Nt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10768 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Roger, >G'day Alan, > >Thanks for your response. I shall wait until you get an opportunity to put >the info on line. > >I also have wondered at times about the use of radioactive material, but had >dismissed it because I was sure that some of the guys associated with him >would have twigged to it. I wonder...I recall reading somewhere that Hendershot originally used old, steel coffee cans on the inner capacitors and that these cans would eventually corrode. Assuming correct recollection on my part, why would the cans corrode? Additionally, I don't recall the inner can playing a part in the actual capacitance, but were it to have been coated with radium chloride paint, it would've provided a strong source of alpha particles to the outer foils and eventually caused those steel cans to corrode. I could be mistaken but I believe this was the argument put forward by those who assume use of radium in Hendershot's device. However...even if radium was used in his devices, what does that say about the current availability of radium and the appication of such in free energy devices? Ed Skilling and Arthur Aho both independantly >built generators under Hendershot's instructions and whilst not being able >to get them working (themselves) watched while Hendershot coaxed them into >life. I think I have heard of Ed Skilling but I really don't know who either of these guys are. Do you know anything more about the devices they constructed and what Hendershot reportedly did to get them working? I tried virtually everything to get mine working and actually heard a sound...kind of a hiss...come out of the thing one time; but no great volumes of power and never got the oscillator to buzz. I wonder what kind of magic is necessary to bring the thing to life? >I started with the circuits from the Rex Research material and like you >couldn't get any results. So I redrew every circuit that I could find into a >common format and then was able to compare them a bit more easily. > >Even after that the circuits still didn't make sense, so I redrew it to what >I thought looked symetrical etc. but having tried them all with no success I >put things on hold. I can identify with what you're saying. I hooked everything up per those schematics/diagrams I had and eventually concluded that the schematics being presented as "original" were not going to work. I'll have to dig out all the materials I have...several boxes, books and logs... to see what it is I eventually did; but I remember reversing several connections and changing several things before I got any results at all. I really do feel that the harmonics associated with light came into play. I don't know if you're familiar with the works of Bruce Cathie...(not sure of the spelling)...but some of his concepts were instrumental in determining what I based my design/work with this device on. I found several parallels between what Cathie was saying in his works and the Hendershot design...far too many to just be coincidence. I also feel that given the time frame of Hendershot's works, ( especially considering his lack of calculators and/or modern measurements ), that he was almost dead on with regard to his designs and the harmonics of light mentioned in several people's works. If his figures...size of coils, number of turns, values, etc...were merely random or intuitive, then it is indeed an astounding series of coincidence; I, for one, don't think this to be the case. Lastly, while I was researching Hendershot's device, one person wrote to me to suggesting that I be very careful where I operated it because of the potential to disturb the natural medium. This person...who never responded to my email and remained anonymous, claimed to have a working Hendershot device; they also claimed that it worked via human influence and that you had to "feel" it working before it would "come to life". Sounds like metaphysics to me but who knows... Thanx again and best regards, Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 10:16:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA03934; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:15:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:15:43 -0700 From: "Martin" To: Subject: Re: Koenig Winding Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:44:21 +0200 Message-ID: <01beb30c$ac0a7ae0$LocalHost@Martin.icon.co.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"fMww13.0.Nz._A_Nt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10769 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi >It appears some ambiguities on the patent text. Only voltage and DC resistance figures are mentioned, nothing about current figures. I suspect the author missed some basics on the scope of the knowledge the patent covers. Yes on examining the text of the patent I have to agree with you. I may try a small winding this waybut I think basically the guy was a bit confused > >One is ferroresonant transformer. Worth to look more clossely. Thanks that sounds more interesting. > Regards Martin http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 10:16:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA04365; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:16:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:16:32 -0700 Message-ID: <005901beb36d$b9056be0$546154d8@monorailpc> From: "code" To: "freenrg" Subject: Fw: pmm Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:19:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01BEB333.0C0F8400"; type="multipart/alternative" Resent-Message-ID: <"K20UL1.0.541.mB_Nt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10770 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BEB333.0C0F8400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0054_01BEB333.0C0F8400" ------=_NextPart_001_0054_01BEB333.0C0F8400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone investigating this? -----Original Message----- From: code To: tnerta@codenet.net Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 10:30 AM Subject: pmm Now I am going to explain the construction and working of a PMM which may not be very efficient but will prove that it is possible. A wheel and axle is actually a permanent lever. The multiplied force from it can be stored in a spring which can be fed back to the wheel by using hammer drop or impact movement principle and a free wheel arrangement as in a bicycle. Take a wheel with 20 inch radius which has gear on the inside of its rim and has a half gear with 2 inch radius on its hub. Take two freewheels which have gears. Each freewheel has one partial and one full gear each with 9 inch radius. Mount these wheels on the stand. The freewheel's full gears mesh with the bigger wheel. Attach two flat spiral springs (with 100 lb.. tension when wound) to the partial gears of the freewheels whose other ends are attached to the stand so that the partial gears can swing back and forth. (The inner end of the spring is welded to the frame and the outer end is attached to the freewheel on the side of the partial gear). The spring, after transferring its force, works as its own brake and comes back to its normal position quickly and is ready for the next winding. When everything is in place according to the diagram, move the outer wheel by hand with about 10 lb. force in the counterclockwise direction until the middle gear has disengaged. Now the partial gear of the second feewheel engages and the first one starts to drive the bigger wheel with ten times more force than the original force given by hand. Now, let the wheel move on its own power. The force on the wheel depends upon the strength of the spring. The more the force of the springs, the faster the wheel will turn. All the wheels are with lubricated ball bearings to minimize friction. In the first independent half revolution 100 lbs. will be transferred to turn the wheel, out of which 10 lbs. will be consumed in stretching the other spring and 5 lbs.(hypothetical figure) will be consumed overcoming resistance. In the next half revolution again, about 15 lbs. will be consumed and about 85 lbs. will be transferred, making the speed faster until a balance between stretching of springs and the speed of the system is reached. If a built-in generator is in its hub which consumes 20 lbs. (hypothetical figure) every half revolution, it can generate electricity without any outside help. There are many ways to make PMM. A PMM without gears is also possible which is very simple and most efficient. The former proves that a PMM can be made while the latter has no wear and tear except at the ball bearings which take a long time to wear out and is feasible in daily life. Copyright January, 1999=20 Back to physics Back to main page ------=_NextPart_001_0054_01BEB333.0C0F8400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Anyone investigating = this?
 
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 code <tnerta@codenet.net>
To: = tnerta@codenet.net <tnerta@codenet.net>
Date:= =20 Friday, June 04, 1999 10:30 AM
Subject: = pmm

Now I am going to explain the construction  and working of a = PMM=20 which
may not be very efficient but will prove that it is possible. A = wheel
and axle is actually a permanent lever. The multiplied force = from it=20 can
be stored in a spring which can be fed back to the wheel by using = hammer
drop or impact movement principle and a free wheel arrangement = as in=20 a
bicycle.

Take a wheel with 20 inch radius which has gear on = the=20 inside of its
rim and has a half gear with 2 inch radius on its hub. = Take=20 two
freewheels which have gears. Each freewheel has one partial and = one=20 full
gear each with 9 inch radius. Mount these wheels on the stand.=20 The
freewheel's full gears mesh with the bigger wheel. Attach two=20 flat
spiral springs (with 100 lb.. tension when wound) to the partial = gears
of the freewheels whose other ends are attached to the stand so = that=20 the
partial gears can swing back and forth. (The inner end of the = spring=20 is
welded to the frame and the outer end is attached to the freewheel = on
the side of  the partial gear). The spring, after = transferring=20 its
force, works as its own brake and comes back to its normal=20 position
quickly and is ready for the next winding.

When = everything is=20 in place according to the diagram, move the outer
wheel by hand with = about 10=20 lb. force in the counterclockwise direction
until the middle gear has = disengaged. Now the partial gear of the second
feewheel engages and = the first=20 one starts to drive the bigger wheel with
ten times more force than = the=20 original force given by hand. Now, let the
wheel move on its own=20 power.

The force on the wheel depends upon the strength of the = spring.=20 The
more the force of the springs, the faster the wheel will turn. = All=20 the
wheels are with lubricated ball bearings to minimize = friction.

In=20 the first independent half revolution 100 lbs. will be transferred
to = turn=20 the wheel, out of which 10 lbs. will be consumed in stretching
the = other=20 spring and 5 lbs.(hypothetical figure) will be consumed
overcoming=20 resistance. In the next half revolution again, about 15 lbs.
will be = consumed=20 and about 85 lbs. will be transferred, making the speed
faster until = a=20 balance between stretching of springs and the speed of
the system is = reached.=20 If a built-in generator is in its hub which
consumes 20 lbs. = (hypothetical=20 figure) every half revolution, it can
generate electricity without = any=20 outside help.

There are many ways to make PMM. A PMM without = gears is=20 also possible
which is very simple and most efficient. The former = proves that=20 a PMM
can be made while the latter has no wear and tear except at the = ball
bearings which take a long time to wear out and is feasible in=20 daily
life.

Copyright January, 1999=20

Back to = physics

Back to = main=20 page

------=_NextPart_001_0054_01BEB333.0C0F8400-- ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BEB333.0C0F8400 Content-Type: image/gif Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <004b01beb36d$b85d9320$546154d8@monorailpc> R0lGODlhGQAZAPcAAAAAAAAAQAAAgAAA/wAgAAAgQAAggAAg/wBAAABAQABAgABA/wBgAABgQABg gABg/wCAAACAQACAgACA/wCgAACgQACggACg/wDAAADAQADAgADA/wD/AAD/QAD/gAD//yAAACAA QCAAgCAA/yAgACAgQCAggCAg/yBAACBAQCBAgCBA/yBgACBgQCBggCBg/yCAACCAQCCAgCCA/yCg ACCgQCCggCCg/yDAACDAQCDAgCDA/yD/ACD/QCD/gCD//0AAAEAAQEAAgEAA/0AgAEAgQEAggEAg /0BAAEBAQEBAgEBA/0BgAEBgQEBggEBg/0CAAECAQECAgECA/0CgAECgQECggECg/0DAAEDAQEDA gEDA/0D/AED/QED/gED//2AAAGAAQGAAgGAA/2AgAGAgQGAggGAg/2BAAGBAQGBAgGBA/2BgAGBg QGBggGBg/2CAAGCAQGCAgGCA/2CgAGCgQGCggGCg/2DAAGDAQGDAgGDA/2D/AGD/QGD/gGD//4AA AIAAQIAAgIAA/4AgAIAgQIAggIAg/4BAAIBAQIBAgIBA/4BgAIBgQIBggIBg/4CAAICAQICAgICA /4CgAICgQICggICg/4DAAIDAQIDAgIDA/4D/AID/QID/gID//6AAAKAAQKAAgKAA/6AgAKAgQKAg gKAg/6BAAKBAQKBAgKBA/6BgAKBgQKBggKBg/6CAAKCAQKCAgKCA/6CgAKCgQKCggKCg/6DAAKDA QKDAgKDA/6D/AKD/QKD/gKD//8AAAMAAQMAAgMAA/8AgAMAgQMAggMAg/8BAAMBAQMBAgMBA/8Bg AMBgQMBggMBg/8CAAMCAQMCAgMCA/8CgAMCgQMCggMCg/8DAAMDAQMDAgMDA/8D/AMD/QMD/gMD/ //8AAP8AQP8AgP8A//8gAP8gQP8ggP8g//9AAP9AQP9AgP9A//9gAP9gQP9ggP9g//+AAP+AQP+A gP+A//+gAP+gQP+ggP+g///AAP/AQP/AgP/A////AP//QP//gP///ywAAAAAGQAZAAcIUAABCBxI sKDBgwgTKlzIsKHDhxAjFgRHsWLFfxgXWtxIEeM/hRw5ekwYUmRGhBwlAkgpkWVElxBLbhxJUmbH kzVl0tRYcqfKn0CDCh1KVGhAACH+5VRoaXMgZmlsZSB3YXMgY3JlYXRlZCBieSAgICANDUdyYXBo aWMgV29ya3Nob3AgZm9yIFdpbmRvd3MgMS4xeQ0NZnJvbSBBbGNoZW15IE1pbmR3b3JrcyBJbmMu DVAuTy4gQm94IDUwMA1CZWV0b24sIE9udGFyaW8NTDBHIDFBMCBDQU5BREENDVRoaXMgaW1hZ2Ug bWF5IGhhdmUgYmVlbiBjcmVhdGVkIGJ5DWEgcGFydHkgb3RoZXIgdGhhbiBBbGNoZW15IE1pbmR3 b3JrcyBJbmMuDQ1Vc2Ugbm8gaG9va3MAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BEB333.0C0F8400-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 11:39:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09446; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:36:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:36:36 -0700 Message-ID: <37600557.B6E7BF01@harti.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:35:03 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, code , Newman-L Mailing List , Roger Weichert Subject: Re: Hendershot device References: <000e01beb36c$6144eee0$546154d8@monorailpc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RAYYC3.0.PJ2.qM0Ot"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10772 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, how did you design your LC circuits ? What Q did they have ? Did they oscillate (ring) long enough , when fed with a DC pulse ? If they don´t ring, it will not work ! Did you get the "Doorbell ringer" to work with a spark gap ? How did you adjust this ? What was the resonance frequencies of your LC systems ? Did they match ? Was there any beat frequency ? (DC component) Did your "doorbell ringer" circuit have a simular resonance frequency like your LC circuits ? I believe you have to have a mechanical electrical resonance system to get it to work ! Very important ! I don´t belive in this Radium Chloride rumour ! This is also not true in the Testatika machine ! This was just a joke by Bruce Perrault ! Regards, Stefan. code schrieb: > > Hi Roger, > > >G'day Alan, > > > >Thanks for your response. I shall wait until you get an opportunity to put > >the info on line. > > > >I also have wondered at times about the use of radioactive material, but > had > >dismissed it because I was sure that some of the guys associated with him > >would have twigged to it. > > I wonder...I recall reading somewhere that Hendershot originally used old, > steel coffee cans on the inner capacitors and that these cans would > eventually corrode. Assuming correct recollection on my part, why would the > cans corrode? Additionally, I don't recall the inner can playing a part in > the actual capacitance, but were it to have been coated with radium chloride > paint, it would've provided a strong source of alpha particles to the outer > foils and eventually caused those steel cans to corrode. I could be > mistaken but I believe this was the argument put forward by those who assume > use of radium in Hendershot's device. However...even if radium was used in > his devices, what does that say about the current availability of radium and > the appication of such in free energy devices? > > Ed Skilling and Arthur Aho both independantly > >built generators under Hendershot's instructions and whilst not being able > >to get them working (themselves) watched while Hendershot coaxed them into > >life. > > I think I have heard of Ed Skilling but I really don't know who either of > these guys are. Do you know anything more about the devices they > constructed and what Hendershot reportedly did to get them working? > I tried virtually everything to get mine working and actually heard a > sound...kind of a hiss...come out of the thing one time; but no great > volumes of power and never got the oscillator to buzz. I wonder what kind > of magic is necessary to bring the thing to life? > > >I started with the circuits from the Rex Research material and like you > >couldn't get any results. So I redrew every circuit that I could find into > a > >common format and then was able to compare them a bit more easily. > > > >Even after that the circuits still didn't make sense, so I redrew it to > what > >I thought looked symetrical etc. but having tried them all with no success > I > >put things on hold. > > I can identify with what you're saying. I hooked everything up per those > schematics/diagrams I had and eventually concluded that the schematics being > presented as "original" were not going to work. I'll have to dig out all > the materials I have...several boxes, books and logs... to see what it is I > eventually did; but I remember reversing several connections and changing > several things before I got any results at all. > > I really do feel that the harmonics associated with light came into play. I > don't know if you're familiar with the works of Bruce Cathie...(not sure of > the spelling)...but some of his concepts were instrumental in determining > what I based my design/work with this device on. I found several parallels > between what Cathie was saying in his works and the Hendershot design...far > too many to just be coincidence. I also feel that given the time frame of > Hendershot's works, ( especially considering his lack of calculators and/or > modern measurements ), that he was almost dead on with regard to his designs > and the harmonics of light mentioned in several people's works. If his > figures...size of coils, number of turns, values, etc...were merely random > or intuitive, then it is indeed an astounding series of coincidence; I, for > one, don't think this to be the case. > > Lastly, while I was researching Hendershot's device, one person wrote to me > to suggesting that I be very careful where I operated it because of the > potential to disturb the natural medium. This person...who never responded > to my email and remained anonymous, claimed to have a working Hendershot > device; they also claimed that it worked via human influence and that you > had to "feel" it working before it would "come to life". Sounds like > metaphysics to me but who knows... > > Thanx again and best regards, > > Alan -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! QUIT From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 11:40:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09140; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:35:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:35:23 -0700 Message-ID: <37600596.9D888220@harti.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:36:06 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, code , Newman-L Mailing List , Roger Weichert Subject: Re: Hendershot device References: <000e01beb36c$6144eee0$546154d8@monorailpc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jOUsW2.0.jE2.hL0Ot"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10771 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, how did you design your LC circuits ? What Q did they have ? Did they oscillate (ring) long enough , when fed with a DC pulse ? If they don´t ring, it will not work ! Did you get the "Doorbell ringer" to work with a spark gap ? How did you adjust this ? What was the resonance frequencies of your LC systems ? Did they match ? Was there any beat frequency ? (DC component) Did your "doorbell ringer" circuit have a simular resonance frequency like your LC circuits ? I believe you have to have a mechanical electrical resonance system to get it to work ! Very important ! I don´t belive in this Radium Chloride rumour ! This is also not true in the Testatika machine ! This was just a joke by Bruce Perrault ! Regards, Stefan. code schrieb: > > Hi Roger, > > >G'day Alan, > > > >Thanks for your response. I shall wait until you get an opportunity to put > >the info on line. > > > >I also have wondered at times about the use of radioactive material, but > had > >dismissed it because I was sure that some of the guys associated with him > >would have twigged to it. > > I wonder...I recall reading somewhere that Hendershot originally used old, > steel coffee cans on the inner capacitors and that these cans would > eventually corrode. Assuming correct recollection on my part, why would the > cans corrode? Additionally, I don't recall the inner can playing a part in > the actual capacitance, but were it to have been coated with radium chloride > paint, it would've provided a strong source of alpha particles to the outer > foils and eventually caused those steel cans to corrode. I could be > mistaken but I believe this was the argument put forward by those who assume > use of radium in Hendershot's device. However...even if radium was used in > his devices, what does that say about the current availability of radium and > the appication of such in free energy devices? > > Ed Skilling and Arthur Aho both independantly > >built generators under Hendershot's instructions and whilst not being able > >to get them working (themselves) watched while Hendershot coaxed them into > >life. > > I think I have heard of Ed Skilling but I really don't know who either of > these guys are. Do you know anything more about the devices they > constructed and what Hendershot reportedly did to get them working? > I tried virtually everything to get mine working and actually heard a > sound...kind of a hiss...come out of the thing one time; but no great > volumes of power and never got the oscillator to buzz. I wonder what kind > of magic is necessary to bring the thing to life? > > >I started with the circuits from the Rex Research material and like you > >couldn't get any results. So I redrew every circuit that I could find into > a > >common format and then was able to compare them a bit more easily. > > > >Even after that the circuits still didn't make sense, so I redrew it to > what > >I thought looked symetrical etc. but having tried them all with no success > I > >put things on hold. > > I can identify with what you're saying. I hooked everything up per those > schematics/diagrams I had and eventually concluded that the schematics being > presented as "original" were not going to work. I'll have to dig out all > the materials I have...several boxes, books and logs... to see what it is I > eventually did; but I remember reversing several connections and changing > several things before I got any results at all. > > I really do feel that the harmonics associated with light came into play. I > don't know if you're familiar with the works of Bruce Cathie...(not sure of > the spelling)...but some of his concepts were instrumental in determining > what I based my design/work with this device on. I found several parallels > between what Cathie was saying in his works and the Hendershot design...far > too many to just be coincidence. I also feel that given the time frame of > Hendershot's works, ( especially considering his lack of calculators and/or > modern measurements ), that he was almost dead on with regard to his designs > and the harmonics of light mentioned in several people's works. If his > figures...size of coils, number of turns, values, etc...were merely random > or intuitive, then it is indeed an astounding series of coincidence; I, for > one, don't think this to be the case. > > Lastly, while I was researching Hendershot's device, one person wrote to me > to suggesting that I be very careful where I operated it because of the > potential to disturb the natural medium. This person...who never responded > to my email and remained anonymous, claimed to have a working Hendershot > device; they also claimed that it worked via human influence and that you > had to "feel" it working before it would "come to life". Sounds like > metaphysics to me but who knows... > > Thanx again and best regards, > > Alan -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 13:53:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA05574; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:51:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:51:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199906102050.WAA00538@irene.ctv.es> From: "Vicente Jose Ramos" To: , "code" , "Newman-L Mailing List" , "Roger Weichert" Subject: RE: Hendershot device Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:54:39 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5wVR32.0.zM1.BL2Ot"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10773 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Stefan I want belive these machines don't used Radium Clorhide too... but I don't understand other way to break the balance. Vicente. ---------- > De: Stefan Hartmann > A: freenrg-l@eskimo.com; code ; Newman-L Mailing List ; Roger Weichert > Asunto: Re: Hendershot device > Fecha: jueves 10 de junio de 1999 20:35 > > Hi, > > how did you design your LC circuits ? > > What Q did they have ? > > Did they oscillate (ring) long enough , > when fed with a DC pulse ? > > If they don´t ring, it will not work ! > > Did you get the "Doorbell ringer" to work with > a spark gap ? > > How did you adjust this ? > > What was the resonance frequencies of your LC systems ? > > Did they match ? > > Was there any beat frequency ? (DC component) > > Did your "doorbell ringer" circuit have a simular resonance > frequency like your LC circuits ? > > I believe you have to have a mechanical electrical resonance system > to get it to work ! > > Very important ! > > I don´t belive in this Radium Chloride rumour ! > > This is also not true in the Testatika machine ! > This was just a joke by Bruce Perrault ! > > > Regards, Stefan. > > > code schrieb: > > > > Hi Roger, > > > > >G'day Alan, > > > > > >Thanks for your response. I shall wait until you get an opportunity to put > > >the info on line. > > > > > >I also have wondered at times about the use of radioactive material, but > > had > > >dismissed it because I was sure that some of the guys associated with him > > >would have twigged to it. > > > > I wonder...I recall reading somewhere that Hendershot originally used old, > > steel coffee cans on the inner capacitors and that these cans would > > eventually corrode. Assuming correct recollection on my part, why would the > > cans corrode? Additionally, I don't recall the inner can playing a part in > > the actual capacitance, but were it to have been coated with radium chloride > > paint, it would've provided a strong source of alpha particles to the outer > > foils and eventually caused those steel cans to corrode. I could be > > mistaken but I believe this was the argument put forward by those who assume > > use of radium in Hendershot's device. However...even if radium was used in > > his devices, what does that say about the current availability of radium and > > the appication of such in free energy devices? > > > > Ed Skilling and Arthur Aho both independantly > > >built generators under Hendershot's instructions and whilst not being able > > >to get them working (themselves) watched while Hendershot coaxed them into > > >life. > > > > I think I have heard of Ed Skilling but I really don't know who either of > > these guys are. Do you know anything more about the devices they > > constructed and what Hendershot reportedly did to get them working? > > I tried virtually everything to get mine working and actually heard a > > sound...kind of a hiss...come out of the thing one time; but no great > > volumes of power and never got the oscillator to buzz. I wonder what kind > > of magic is necessary to bring the thing to life? > > > > >I started with the circuits from the Rex Research material and like you > > >couldn't get any results. So I redrew every circuit that I could find into > > a > > >common format and then was able to compare them a bit more easily. > > > > > >Even after that the circuits still didn't make sense, so I redrew it to > > what > > >I thought looked symetrical etc. but having tried them all with no success > > I > > >put things on hold. > > > > I can identify with what you're saying. I hooked everything up per those > > schematics/diagrams I had and eventually concluded that the schematics being > > presented as "original" were not going to work. I'll have to dig out all > > the materials I have...several boxes, books and logs... to see what it is I > > eventually did; but I remember reversing several connections and changing > > several things before I got any results at all. > > > > I really do feel that the harmonics associated with light came into play. I > > don't know if you're familiar with the works of Bruce Cathie...(not sure of > > the spelling)...but some of his concepts were instrumental in determining > > what I based my design/work with this device on. I found several parallels > > between what Cathie was saying in his works and the Hendershot design...far > > too many to just be coincidence. I also feel that given the time frame of > > Hendershot's works, ( especially considering his lack of calculators and/or > > modern measurements ), that he was almost dead on with regard to his designs > > and the harmonics of light mentioned in several people's works. If his > > figures...size of coils, number of turns, values, etc...were merely random > > or intuitive, then it is indeed an astounding series of coincidence; I, for > > one, don't think this to be the case. > > > > Lastly, while I was researching Hendershot's device, one person wrote to me > > to suggesting that I be very careful where I operated it because of the > > potential to disturb the natural medium. This person...who never responded > > to my email and remained anonymous, claimed to have a working Hendershot > > device; they also claimed that it worked via human influence and that you > > had to "feel" it working before it would "come to life". Sounds like > > metaphysics to me but who knows... > > > > Thanx again and best regards, > > > > Alan > > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > > QUIT > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 14:15:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA16680; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:13:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:13:02 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:05:19 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: More VACE tests In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Wkqme1.0.O44.Sf2Ot"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10774 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave and all, At 10:38 PM 06/09/99, Dave wrote: >> >>He also noted this same [flux retention] >>phenomena with an ordinary flyback transformer. > >I also tried this with zero force detected with current off. There must >however be some saturation effect, as the ferrite "U" pieces in a flyback >transformer normally have pieces of paper or plastic separating them. And we are only referring to unbroken magnetic circuits, so try it with the paper removed. The ferrite sections must be firmly touching. Colin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 14:23:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA19906; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:22:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:22:32 -0700 Message-ID: <37602CCC.1409F2ED@harti.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:23:24 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: code , Newman-L Mailing List , Roger Weichert , Vicente Jose Ramos Subject: Re: Hendershot device and second law heat pump kit violater X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <199906102050.WAA00538@irene.ctv.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uPIpo1.0.vs4.Oo2Ot"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10775 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vicente Jose Ramos schrieb: > > Hi, Stefan > I want belive these machines don't used Radium Clorhide too... but I don't > understand other way to break the balance. > Vicente. > Hi, it is exactly as the Newman Machine a MECHANICAL-ELECTRICAL Resonance system with a nonlinear rectifier part (built with a commutator or diodes parts) to rectify the "beat" frequency and to switch and output the energy in the right moment ! Newman´s first big machine had a LC resonance frequency (of the coil) in the range of the mechanical rotation frequency of the magnet ! I just listened again to a taped phone call I did make to Dr. Roger Hastings a few years back and he told that to me....(I am recapturing these facts now..) If you have the LC circuit at the same resonance frequency as the magnet rotates inside the LC circuit (coil) this will be a parametric induced resonance system. Now if you switch it in the right moment you can extract useful electrical power ! The same was probably true with the Hendershot device and the Testatika machine. Hendershot uses the doorbell ringer to resonante mechanically with the same frequency as his LC circuits and switch currents with it and the Testatika uses a crystal diodes and a special stepper like motor to accomplish this task. See it this way: You just have to get the poles of the LC circuits to this aera, where oscillation occurs, so you have to reduce the damping (and increase Q) by nonlinear parametric oscillation ! Maybe also a key factor is a heat energy to electrical energy conversion process this way, so that the LC circuits and magnets get colder and via the parametric resonance the environment heat is converted into electrical energy. These are circular processes which violate the second law of thermodynamics. See it as a electrical powered heat to electrial energy pump ! There is coming soon (about July 99) a kit from a company that will show this heat pump effect by cooling down the environment by 1 to 2 degrees celsius ! :) I can not tell you more in this moment ! :) Stay tuned ! Best regards, Stefan. > ---------- > > De: Stefan Hartmann > > A: freenrg-l@eskimo.com; code ; Newman-L Mailing List > ; Roger Weichert > > Asunto: Re: Hendershot device > > Fecha: jueves 10 de junio de 1999 20:35 > > > > Hi, > > > > how did you design your LC circuits ? > > > > What Q did they have ? > > > > Did they oscillate (ring) long enough , > > when fed with a DC pulse ? > > > > If they don´t ring, it will not work ! > > > > Did you get the "Doorbell ringer" to work with > > a spark gap ? > > > > How did you adjust this ? > > > > What was the resonance frequencies of your LC systems ? > > > > Did they match ? > > > > Was there any beat frequency ? (DC component) > > > > Did your "doorbell ringer" circuit have a simular resonance > > frequency like your LC circuits ? > > > > I believe you have to have a mechanical electrical resonance system > > to get it to work ! > > > > Very important ! > > > > I don´t belive in this Radium Chloride rumour ! > > > > This is also not true in the Testatika machine ! > > This was just a joke by Bruce Perrault ! > > > > > > Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 15:49:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA14440; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:46:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:46:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990610180408.0098cd60@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:04:08 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: T.H.Moray In-Reply-To: <37602CCC.1409F2ED@harti.com> References: <199906102050.WAA00538@irene.ctv.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Y34nL2.0.UX3.E14Ot"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10776 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all, I'm looking for a reputable reference to one of T.H. Moray's two main inventions. I understand that he purportedly had a type of solid state Free Energy device, but that he also had a healing device, similar perhaps to a Rife tube. Are there any of those Moray vacuum tubes still left [in existence] or even pictures of them ?? Thanks very, Colin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 17:50:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA19368; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:46:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:46:00 -0700 Message-ID: <003201beb3a7$20f9ba60$ea7988d1@monorailpc> From: "code" To: "freenrg" Subject: neodymium Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:09:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002F_01BEB36C.625F3880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"hbGV02.0.Rk4.7n5Ot"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10777 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BEB36C.625F3880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, I was recently informed that the element, neodymium, is radioactive! = The individual told me that I could prove this to myself by heating a = neo magnet, in a test tube, to incandescence and let it cool to room = temp.. Within a week it will reportedly start emitting beta particles = and make a geiger counter go nuts! Can anyone substantiate/refudiate this claim? Thanx and best regards, Alan=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BEB36C.625F3880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello All,
 
I was recently informed that the = element,=20 neodymium, is radioactive!  The individual told me that I could = prove this=20 to myself by heating a neo magnet, in a test tube, to incandescence and = let it=20 cool to room temp..  Within a week it will reportedly start = emitting beta=20 particles and make a geiger counter go nuts!
 
Can anyone substantiate/refudiate = this=20 claim?
 
Thanx and best regards,
 
Alan 
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BEB36C.625F3880-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 19:07:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA26936; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:06:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:06:19 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. Message-ID: <008901beb3ae$e4535320$431bc018@vic.bigpond.net.au> From: "Robin van Spaandonk" To: References: <003201beb3a7$20f9ba60$ea7988d1@monorailpc> Subject: Re: neodymium Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:05:33 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0086_01BEB402.B5791C20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"y2qmB3.0.ia6.Qy6Ot"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10778 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01BEB402.B5791C20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 23.8% of natural Nd is Nd144 with a half life of 2.29E15 years (IOW very = slightly radioactive). It decays via alpha decay to Ce140 with decay energy of 1.853 MeV. As Ce140 is a stable isotope, I am most curious as to how Nd can = suddenly become a beta emitter. (Though you friend may have been confused by secondary electrons emitted = as a consequence of alpha absorption). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk ----- Original Message -----=20 From: code=20 To: freenrg=20 Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 11:09 AM Subject: neodymium Hello All, =20 I was recently informed that the element, neodymium, is radioactive! = The individual told me that I could prove this to myself by heating a = neo magnet, in a test tube, to incandescence and let it cool to room = temp.. Within a week it will reportedly start emitting beta particles = and make a geiger counter go nuts! =20 Can anyone substantiate/refudiate this claim? =20 Thanx and best regards, =20 Alan=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01BEB402.B5791C20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
23.8% of natural Nd is Nd144 with a half life of = 2.29E15=20 years (IOW very slightly radioactive). It decays
via alpha decay to Ce140 with decay energy of = 1.853=20 MeV.
As Ce140 is a stable isotope, I am most curious = as to how=20 Nd can suddenly become a beta emitter.
(Though you friend may have been confused by = secondary=20 electrons emitted as a consequence of
alpha absorption).
 
Regards,
 
Robin van Spaandonk
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 code
To: freenrg
Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 = 11:09=20 AM
Subject: neodymium

Hello All,
 
I was recently informed that the = element,=20 neodymium, is radioactive!  The individual told me that I could = prove=20 this to myself by heating a neo magnet, in a test tube, to = incandescence and=20 let it cool to room temp..  Within a week it will reportedly = start=20 emitting beta particles and make a geiger counter go = nuts!
 
Can anyone substantiate/refudiate = this=20 claim?
 
Thanx and best = regards,
 
Alan 
------=_NextPart_000_0086_01BEB402.B5791C20-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 22:02:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13937; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:02:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:02:08 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:22:43 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: More VACE tests In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> References: <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8rheZ3.0.gP3.GX9Ot"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10779 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Colin and all, At 05:05 PM 6/10/99 -0700, you wrote: >>>He also noted this same [flux retention] >>>phenomena with an ordinary flyback transformer. >> >>I also tried this with zero force detected with current off. There must >>however be some saturation effect, as the ferrite "U" pieces in a flyback >>transformer normally have pieces of paper or plastic separating them. > >And we are only referring to unbroken magnetic circuits, so try it with the >paper removed. The ferrite sections must be firmly touching. > Yes, I had removed the spacers. The ends of the ferrite "U" pieces were polished, so they joined better than the soft steel. By the way I found for Alnico 5 the remnant B(r)= 1.25 Tesla = weber/meter^2. This high a value must be also for a closed circuit. The H(c) to unpole it was stated to be 44x10^3 Amp-turns/meter. I found that I can reverse the poling. easily with a pulser. 44x10^3 Amp-turns/meter in air would produce only a field of about 500 Gauss (0.05 Tesla). I have found that the ceramic ring magnets I have have 4 poles on each face, 2 N and 2 S. These still exist with an estimated H applied of 90x10^3 Amp-turns/meter (max) to pole them circularly like your washers. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 10 22:12:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA17239; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:12:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:12:34 -0700 Message-ID: <37609AB1.390DCA39@prairienet.org> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 00:12:18 -0500 From: Zack Widup X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: T.H.Moray References: <199906102050.WAA00538@irene.ctv.es> <3.0.5.32.19990610180408.0098cd60@inforamp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Sg73i2.0.GD4.1h9Ot"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10780 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Quinney wrote: > To all, > > I'm looking for a reputable reference to one of T.H. Moray's two main > inventions. > I understand that he purportedly had a type of solid state Free Energy device, > but that he also had a healing device, similar perhaps to a Rife tube. > > Are there any of those Moray vacuum tubes still left [in existence] or even > pictures of them ?? > > Thanks very, > Colin Hi Colin, Bruce Perreault has a CD-ROM of T. H. Moray's works listed on his website. I have been thinking of getting a copy. Check out: http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/main.html Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 11 00:08:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA11947; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 00:07:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 00:07:56 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: neodymium Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 03:12:29 -0400 Message-ID: <19990611071229468.AAA121@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"VURZf.0.aw2.CNBOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10781 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hello All, > >I was recently informed that the element, neodymium, is radioactive! The individual told me that I could prove this to myself by heating a neo magnet, in a test tube, to incandescence and let it cool to room temp.. Within a week it will reportedly start emitting beta particles and make a geiger counter go nuts! > >Can anyone substantiate/refudiate this claim? > >Thanx and best regards, > >Alan Quite a few magnets have radioactive materials in them, although I'm not sure if neodymium does. I called around to some magnet manufacturers about four or five years ago when I was testing a DC motor and my geiger counter went wild. When I stated the nature of the call, most of the places said they would check and call back, but never did. However, a couple of engineers did call back and confirmed that small amounts of radioactive material were in my magnets. I reported this in the early days of the Vortex Group. As it turned out, the motor wasn't what was setting off my geiger counter, it was the tiles on my kitchen walls. I had about 15 square feet of yellow tiles which were colored with yellowcake, or uranium oxide. Geiger counters are just a good thing to have around.8^) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 11 01:54:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA30748; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 01:49:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 01:49:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199906110847.KAA34642@hermes.fontys.nl> From: "w" To: , Subject: Sound Can Power Engines Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:39:09 +0200 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vPl2i2.0.FW7.GsCOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10782 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sound Can Power Engines 11.45 a.m. ET (1545 GMT) May 30, 1999By Mark Prigg LONDON — Sound could be the key to engines of the future according to American researchers. A team at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico has developed an environmentally friendly engine with no moving parts that is powered by sound waves.The new engine is made from steel tubing and is cheap to produce. Calleda thermoacoustic Stirling heat engine, it consists of a long baseball-bat-shaped resonator with an oval chamber instead of a handle. The engine is filled with compressed helium and when heat is applied tothe "handle" acoustic energy in the form of sound waves is produced. This can be used to drive a piston and create electricity. The team isalso working on a similar system to cool refrigerators. Scott Backhaus, one of the inventors of the engine, says: "Conventionalengines are limited by the laws of thermodynamics and their complexity. Typically the most efficient engines are the huge turbines used in power stations. "Our small engine is actually 10 percent more efficient than the bestturbine, largely because of its simplicity," he says. The engine is alsomaintenance-free as it has no moving parts. The team is working on a way to use solar energy to power the engine andconsidering a system that uses a car's exhaust heat to power its air-conditioning system. A home version of the engine, also underdevelopment, could be used both to generate electricity and providedomestic heating. The principle behind the engine was discovered by Robert Stirling, a19th-century Scottish inventor, who found that cooling and heating gasescould drive a piston. -- http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/ Regards, WJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 11 07:15:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA11334; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:12:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:12:09 -0700 Message-ID: <37611927.176631D8@cyberia.net.lb> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 17:11:51 +0300 From: Eddy Nassar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ae@listproc.sjsu.edu CC: Rutherford@mail.ccsu.edu, web4lib@sunsite.berkeley.edu, bennettt@am.appstate.edu, dleng@unitel.co.kr, auras@chollian.net, canata@rad.net.id, company@ltd, megagood@pacific.net.hk, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OY5Lv2.0.zm2.taHOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10783 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Unsubscribe me please !!!!!!!1 This is the last mail i will send or alse i am changing my mail adress From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 11 07:17:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA11929; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:15:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:15:24 -0700 Message-ID: <009b01beb415$8565b260$ca1b16cb@ppp.lm.net.au> From: "Roger Weichert" To: Subject: Re: Re:Hendershot Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 23:50:07 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Uw0A-.0.Dw2.ydHOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10784 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: G'day Alan >Hi Roger > >>G'day Alan, >> >>I also have wondered at times about the use of radioactive material, but >had >>dismissed it because I was sure that some of the guys associated with him >>would have twigged to it. > >I wonder...I recall reading somewhere that Hendershot originally used old, >steel coffee cans on the inner capacitors and that these cans would >eventually corrode. Assuming correct recollection on my part, why would the >cans corrode? Additionally, I don't recall the inner can playing a part in >the actual capacitance, but were it to have been coated with radium chloride >paint, it would've provided a strong source of alpha particles to the outer >foils and eventually caused those steel cans to corrode. I also recall reading this but always assumed that the corrosion was caused by the residue of the electrolyte from the rewound electrolytic capacitors and that was why he went to stainless steel..... but your argument could certainly still be correct. > > Ed Skilling and Arthur Aho both independantly >>built generators under Hendershot's instructions and whilst not being able >>to get them working (themselves) watched while Hendershot coaxed them into >>life. > >I think I have heard of Ed Skilling but I really don't know who either of >these guys are. Ed was a researcher of all sorts of phenomena, tied up with the American Psychotronics Assoc. plus I believe one of the early magazines (Round Robin ?) Was a respected scientist too I believe. Ed went on to replicate some of the so called "Rife Generators". Was also tied up with Bob Beck. Arthur Aho I dont know much about but he did write a book called " Tomorrows' Energy ....need not be fuel ! " in which he touched on his involvement with Hendershot. Do you know anything more about the devices they >constructed and what Hendershot reportedly did to get them working? The instructions to build a Hen. Gen. obtained from Rex Research are a mixture of Skilling's plus Aho's work. In there it mentions Hendershot shorting parts of the circuit out with a piece of wire, until he could get it going and that sometimes it took even him, hours ! Aho's details also showed carbon granules between the outer of the 6" capacitor and the inside of the honeycomb coils...... I gotta admit, that made me wonder about some sort of radioactive material! In case the carbon was important I wondered if I should crush up some ferrite and pour that in. >I tried virtually everything to get mine working and actually heard a >sound...kind of a hiss...come out of the thing one time; but no great >volumes of power and never got the oscillator to buzz. I wonder what kind >of magic is necessary to bring the thing to life? That is very interesting. I read something in Aho's book that I've never seen anywhere else .... that Hendershot ... ' used common earphones to listen for electical activity in it. He stated " When I hear a sound like a seashell hum, then I know it is ready to start pumping. " ' > >I really do feel that the harmonics associated with light came into play. I >don't know if you're familiar with the works of Bruce Cathie...(not sure of >the spelling)...but some of his concepts were instrumental in determining >what I based my design/work with this device on. I found several parallels >between what Cathie was saying in his works and the Hendershot design...far >too many to just be coincidence. I also feel that given the time frame of >Hendershot's works, ( especially considering his lack of calculators and/or >modern measurements ), that he was almost dead on with regard to his designs >and the harmonics of light mentioned in several people's works. If his >figures...size of coils, number of turns, values, etc...were merely random >or intuitive, then it is indeed an astounding series of coincidence; I, for >one, don't think this to be the case. I only vaguely understand Cathie's work but have seen an attempt at a connection to Hendershot's designs by an Argentinian researcher, ( Jorges Resine ? ? ) I wasn't all that convinced by his work, but I'm wide open for your ideas. >Lastly, while I was researching Hendershot's device, one person wrote to me >to suggesting that I be very careful where I operated it because of the >potential to disturb the natural medium. There was a letter to Hendershot himself ( reproduced in Mark's book ) which suggested much the same thing. This person...who never responded >to my email and remained anonymous, claimed to have a working Hendershot >device; they also claimed that it worked via human influence and that you >had to "feel" it working before it would "come to life". Sounds like >metaphysics to me but who knows... Aho also gives this impression in his book. Thanks for all your info. Very encouraging. Regards Roger. >Thanx again and best regards, > >Alan > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 11 07:51:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA26963; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:51:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:51:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3760F893.1771@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:52:51 -0400 From: Alik Shereshevsky Reply-To: alik@intergate.bc.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sound Can Power Engines References: <199906110847.KAA34642@hermes.fontys.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uhIWg1.0.Cb6.d9IOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10785 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: w wrote: > > Sound Can Power Engines > 11.45 a.m. ET (1545 GMT) May 30, 1999By Mark Prigg > > LONDON — Sound could be the key to engines of the future according > to American researchers. A team at the Los Alamos National Laboratory > in New Mexico has developed an environmentally friendly engine with no This sounds like what is being done by Mcrosonix (or -ics) They have several patents you can look-up. Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 11 12:18:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA07675; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:18:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:18:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 20:18:20 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@exeter To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: New paper Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KyRDL3.0.qt1.04MOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10786 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello all, I have a new paper that I'd like to distribute. I'm having trouble getting a word to html converter that does excatly what I want and so for now I shall try to get a ftp site or send it to enquirers direct, pkzipped. I now have an academic base at a v.good university and experiments are just around the corner. This one will be a joy to engineer because there are so many easy parameters, take a look at the paper. Remi. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 11 12:32:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12601; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:31:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:31:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990611152428.00907a00@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:24:28 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: T.H.Moray Cc: war123@aztec.asu.edu In-Reply-To: <37609AB1.390DCA39@prairienet.org> References: <199906102050.WAA00538@irene.ctv.es> <3.0.5.32.19990610180408.0098cd60@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-f6vr.0.n43.lGMOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10787 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:12 AM 06/11/99 -0500, Zack wrote: >>Quinney wrote: >> ....but that he also had a healing device, similar perhaps to a Rife tube. >> >> Are there any of those Moray vacuum tubes still left [in existence] or even >> pictures of them ?? >Hi Colin, > >Bruce Perreault has a CD-ROM of T. H. Moray's works listed on his website. I have >been thinking of getting a copy. > >Check out: http://www.cyberportal.net/nuenergy/main.html Thanks, Zack. It certainly appeared comprehensive, but $35 ? I just need to see a close-up picture of Moray's healing tubes, or at least a good description of them. I am trying to determine if they were anything like Raymond Rife's vacuum tubes. (The Rife Generator.) All descriptive comments are most welcome. Thanks, Colin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 11 13:18:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26572; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:13:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:13:32 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <614b159b.2492c7be@aol.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 16:12:46 EDT Subject: "Simple" magnetics question To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Resent-Message-ID: <"BT7WI.0._U6.htMOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10788 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Suppose we have 7 identical disk magnets polarized on their flat surfaces. On a straight line in space we place the magnets, equally spaced, nsnsnsns--- so the straight line is centered on the disks, parallel to the B field, (and we hold them so they don't all crash together). Now we twist every magnet 45 degrees to the straight line (with all the flat magnet surfaces still parallel). We know the center magnet is force balanced so it will not be attracted to the 2nd or 4th magnet, BUT will it try to twist to align itself perpendicular to the straight line? OK, how about if the magnet polarities were nssnnssnnssnns? If anyone believes there will be a torque I will post the next question: why can't we make a overunity device by --- Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 11 14:17:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA00080; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:14:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:14:19 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: harti@harti.com Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:09:31 -0700 Subject: Re: Hendershot device and second law heat pump kit violater Message-ID: <19990611.141341.-1029751.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"k0YrH.0.11.gmNOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10789 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stephan, Does it also produce some power as well ?? Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) >Stefan Hartmann said: >There is coming soon (about July 99) a kit from a company that will >show this >heat pump effect by cooling down the environment by 1 to 2 degrees >celsius ! :) >I can not tell you more in this moment ! :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 11 15:05:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA14654; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:00:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:00:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199906112131.SAA01378@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 18:32:18 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Re:Hendershot Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <009b01beb415$8565b260$ca1b16cb@ppp.lm.net.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Resent-Message-ID: <"kDTc7.0.ta3.0SOOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10790 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Do you know anything more about the devices they > >constructed and what Hendershot reportedly did to get them working? > > The instructions to build a Hen. Gen. obtained from Rex Research are a > mixture of Skilling's plus Aho's work. In there it mentions Hendershot > shorting parts of the circuit out with a piece of wire, until he could get > it going and that sometimes it took even him, hours ! > The same appears to happen with Hans Coler and his "Coler device". Sometimes he got the output voltage raised quickly, sometimes didn't. I guess they were using the same "trial & error" approach... --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 11 16:34:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA19259; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 16:33:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 16:33:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990611192531.00b37b80@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:25:31 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: More VACE tests In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Oarbo2.0.qi4.noPOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10791 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:22 PM 06/10/99, you wrote: >>And we are only referring to unbroken magnetic circuits, so try it with the >>paper removed. The ferrite sections must be firmly touching. >> >Yes, I had removed the spacers. The ends of the ferrite "U" pieces were >polished, so they joined better than the soft steel. > Ok. Thank you for doing the experiment. I've now received one report positive and one negative for flybacks. >By the way I found for Alnico 5 the remnant B(r)= 1.25 Tesla = weber/meter^2. >This high a value must be also for a closed circuit. >The H(c) to unpole it was stated to be 44x10^3 Amp-turns/meter. I found >that I can reverse the poling. easily with a pulser. 44x10^3 >Amp-turns/meter in air would produce only a field of about 500 Gauss (0.05 >Tesla). > >I have found that the ceramic ring magnets I have have 4 poles on each >face, 2 N and 2 S. These still exist with an estimated H applied of 90x10^3 >Amp-turns/meter (max) to pole them circularly like your washers. I have read that they ceramics very difficult to re magnetize. (Perhaps reheating is also required?) If you are still unsuccessful, Tom Phipps had a friend from Argentina who did it successfully whom I could slow-mail request for the method if you wish-- or I can Email to you, that name and address. I'm still hunting around for a transformer core that I can 'destroy' for it's laminations. Colin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 00:06:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA03098; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:03:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:03:55 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990611223731.23b7f1ce@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:37:31 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: More VACE tests In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990611192531.00b37b80@inforamp.net> References: <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"pVGVS3.0.Jm.RPWOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10793 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Colin and all, At 07:25 PM 6/11/99 -0700, you wrote: >I have read that they ceramics very difficult to re magnetize. (Perhaps >reheating is also required?) If you are still unsuccessful, Tom Phipps had >a friend from Argentina who did it successfully whom I could slow-mail >request for the method if you wish-- or I can Email to you, that name and >address. Is that Jorge Valverde who was the co-author in the 21st Century magazine article? I would be interested in any further info. I have found the Curie temp. for typical ceramic magnets to be 460 deg.C, and a magnetization required is at least 500x10^3 Amp-turns/meter. I do not know if heating to 460 deg. C changes the grain structure, or if the magnets have any preferred poling direction. Neodym magnets require even more. > >I'm still hunting around for a transformer core that I can 'destroy' for >it's laminations. > Look for bad VCR's, stereo receivers, etc, the older the better. Microwave ovens have larger transformers, but the laminations usually are welded together. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 00:08:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA03075; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:03:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:03:51 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990611222204.23b7a90c@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:22:04 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: "Simple" magnetics question In-Reply-To: <614b159b.2492c7be@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"oST5v1.0.tl.MPWOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10792 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken and all, At 04:12 PM 6/11/99 EDT, you wrote: >Suppose we have 7 identical disk magnets polarized on their flat surfaces. >On a straight line in space we place the magnets, equally spaced, nsnsnsns--- >so the straight line is centered on the disks, parallel to the B field, (and >we hold them so they don't all crash together). Now we twist every magnet 45 >degrees to the straight line (with all the flat magnet surfaces still >parallel). We know the center magnet is force balanced so it will not be >attracted to the 2nd or 4th magnet, BUT will it try to twist to align itself >perpendicular to the straight line? I tried this, if I understand the problem correctly. I used 3 magnets, all that I could hold and twist with my hands, anything special about ? The magnets were like: \\ \\ \\ N\\S N\\S N\\S \\ \\ \\ The center magnet had a CW torque to 90 deg. from the outer 2. OK, how about if the magnet polarities >were nssnnssnnssnns? If anyone believes there will be a torque I will post >the next question: why can't we make a overunity device by --- Maybe no torque only exactly at this point? > > Ken Keasy@aol.com > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 00:18:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA06945; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:18:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:18:13 -0700 Message-ID: <000001beb4a3$f0e8a540$98c41bca@rae> From: "Stuart Rae" To: "FREENRG-L" References: <199808021430.KAA17481@centi.mks.com> Subject: Re: http://www.u36.com/fred/patents - bunch more added Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:57:13 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01BEB505.61C64400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"zNyNp1.0.Li1.qcWOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10794 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BEB505.61C64400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi there Fred, You said recently :...... > I've added a bunch more old patents (Tesla, Moray) as .pdf files to: > http://www.u36.com/fred/patents > I keep trying to access your URL but it keeps failing:......... I would give my right arm to have access to some of Tesla's old Patents, = but the UERL keeps failing. Is it me, or is there something wrong with your reference....?? Regards, SR. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Stuart. Rae, Blenheim, =20 New Zealand. srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BEB505.61C64400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Hi there Fred,
 
You said recently :......

> I've added a bunch more old patents (Tesla, = Moray) as=20 .pdf files to:
> http://www.u36.com/fred/patents<= /A>
>
 
I keep trying to access your URL but it keeps=20 failing:.........
 
I would give my right arm to have access to some of = Tesla's=20 old Patents, but the UERL  keeps failing.
 
Is it me, or is there something wrong with your=20 reference....??
 
Regards,
 
SR.
 
 
Stuart. = Rae,
Blenheim,     =20
New Zealand.
srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz
------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BEB505.61C64400-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 02:34:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA08821; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 02:34:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 02:34:20 -0700 Message-ID: <376229A4.E301AFD4@harti.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:34:28 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eric@phact.org CC: burleyr@scsbrk.synstar.co.uk, rogerdw@lm.net.au, tnerta@codenet.net, Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: free energy hendershot & Testatika References: <3761CD15.7565ECB1@voicenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZUUsP.0.e92.ScYOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10795 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Eric Krieg schrieb: > >Subject: Re: Hendershot device and second law heat pump kit violater > >Date: Fri, 11 Jun 99 12:09:54 PDT > > > >Hi its Roger > > This sounds very interesting please keep me informed The Hendershot > > device and the Testatika have always been of great interest to me > > All the best > > Roger Burley > Sir, > > as far as I know from others, the Hendershot and Testatika are frauds >that still haven't been found to work in spite of many laboring for decades. Eric, Well, the Testatika is definately NO fraud ! I know personally a few people, who have been there, touching it and seen it running, and powering loads of 2 to 3 KWatts, like Mr. Hauser (Denmark), Stefan Marinov (Austria, now dead) Dr. Ing. Harms (Hannover, Germany) Dr. Nieper (Hannover, Germany), etc.. I also have been there in 1989 and unfortunately just did see only the video tape. At this time Methernitha was again more secretive, cause they did not want to have all these "technical spectatators" anymore. Eric, just as you don´t understand these devices, it is NOT that these devices are frauds ! > > Eric Krieg eric@phact.org > > http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 03:07:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA13357; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 03:05:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 03:05:43 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:05:36 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199906121005.MAA16802@front2.grolier.fr> X-Sender: jplentin@pop3.club-internet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: quinney@inforamp.net From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Re: T.H.Moray Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"uTNVB1.0.cG3.t3ZOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10796 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Colin Moray 1949 patent "Electrotherapeutic apparatus" has fairly precise descriptions and 3 sheets of drawings. I have a zipped PDF copy I can send you if you wish (675 kb). PS. IMHO it is very different from Rife. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 03:29:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA15933; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 03:25:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 03:25:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:24:50 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@exeter To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Paper not ftp'ed binary Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"7Aii93.0.ou3.1MZOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10797 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Like it says, will resend. Remi. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 09:01:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02662; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:59:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:59:30 -0700 Message-ID: <3762841D.51E3DC2F@harti.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:00:29 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: N-Machine ! The final understanding of the real effect ! X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"M0d3G.0.Pf.YFeOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10798 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is an important new study of the real effect, that produces the induction voltage inside a dePalma like N-Machine ! http://members.teleweb.at/preiss If you can´t understand German language, translate it via http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/ Mr. Preiss has done a great job ! >From the understanding of the delta A aera changement of the 2 areas, a new device can be build, that is much more efficient than the old dePalma type N-Machine with all its high current losses ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 10:53:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA30009; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 10:53:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 10:53:34 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:00:52 +0200 Message-Id: <199906121800.UAA01146@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Re: New paper Resent-Message-ID: <"w3-pw1.0.nK7.UwfOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10799 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Remi ! >I have a new paper that I'd like to distribute. I'm having trouble getting >a word to html converter that does excatly what I want and so for now I >shall try to get a ftp site or send it to enquirers direct, pkzipped. I am interested in your paper ! If you send me the file privately ? Sincerely Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 11:24:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA06236; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:23:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:23:41 -0700 Message-ID: <001701beb500$c39e1fe0$3b519ac2@default> From: "Sergei M.Godin" To: Subject: Re: N-Machine ! The final understanding of the real effect ! Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:24:03 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Resent-Message-ID: <"3jhU-2.0.LX1.jMgOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10800 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan! I think that it good page, but "coming soon"...."comming soon" when? -Sergei >Here is an important new study of the real effect, that >produces the induction voltage inside >a dePalma like N-Machine ! > >http://members.teleweb.at/preiss > >If you can´t understand German language, > >translate it via >http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/ > > >Mr. Preiss has done a great job ! >>From the understanding of the delta A aera >changement of the 2 areas, a new device can >be build, that is much more efficient >than the old dePalma type N-Machine >with all its high current losses ! > >Regards, Stefan. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 11:24:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA06312; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:24:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:24:12 -0700 Message-ID: <001601beb500$c2eea600$3b519ac2@default> From: "Sergei M.Godin" To: Subject: Re: New paper Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:20:50 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Resent-Message-ID: <"egJuZ3.0.XY1.BNgOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10801 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Remi, I'd like to have this paper too! Regards, Sergei Godin >Hello Remi ! > >>I have a new paper that I'd like to distribute. I'm having trouble getting >>a word to html converter that does excatly what I want and so for now I >>shall try to get a ftp site or send it to enquirers direct, pkzipped. > >I am interested in your paper ! If you send me the file privately ? > >Sincerely > >Dieter Bauer > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 12:07:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19105; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:07:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:07:02 -0700 Message-ID: <3762B00F.88F80A9F@harti.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:07:59 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "Sergei M.Godin" Subject: Re: N-Machine ! The final understanding of the real effect ! References: <001701beb500$c39e1fe0$3b519ac2@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uYB3Z1.0.Mg4.M_gOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10802 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Sergei M.Godin" schrieb: > > Hi Stefan! > > I think that it good page, but "coming soon"...."comming soon" when? > > -Sergei > > >Here is an important new study of the real effect, that > >produces the induction voltage inside > >a dePalma like N-Machine ! > > > >http://members.teleweb.at/preiss Haven´t you found the explanation about the N-effect on this link page ?? it is here: http://world.conk.com/world/trp/ It is very good. Now I have understood, that the induction voltage is NOT generated by the wires outside of the disc, but really inside the disc via the brush changing the 2 different areas ! Best regards, Stefan. > > > >If you can´t understand German language, > > > >translate it via > >http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/ > > > > > >Mr. Preiss has done a great job ! > >>From the understanding of the delta A aera > >changement of the 2 areas, a new device can > >be build, that is much more efficient > >than the old dePalma type N-Machine > >with all its high current losses ! > > > >Regards, Stefan. > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 12:25:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA24045; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:20:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:20:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:20:49 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@exeter To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New paper In-Reply-To: <199906121800.UAA01146@ns.b.vossnet.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gY_9M3.0.ct5.MChOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10803 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dieter Bauer, I just sent you the file. At the moment I am setting up ftp and considering putting the file in postscript, pdf, word97 and html format. If you had problems with the file earlier, it was because I sent it up to the unix host via ftp as (duh!) ascii instead of binary. I nag people at work about ftp'ing too! Remi. P.S. obviously unix users can just 'cat' the postscript file. On Sat, 12 Jun 1999, W.D. BAUER wrote: > Hello Remi ! > > >I have a new paper that I'd like to distribute. I'm having trouble getting > >a word to html converter that does excatly what I want and so for now I > >shall try to get a ftp site or send it to enquirers direct, pkzipped. > > I am interested in your paper ! If you send me the file privately ? > > Sincerely > > Dieter Bauer > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 12:36:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA27770; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:33:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:33:52 -0700 Message-ID: <00c501beb509$e66ba520$63684fc6@default> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: New paper Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:29:31 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"t5Alt1.0.jn6.VOhOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10804 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Remi, I also am interested in your paper! Can you send me the file? Will it be, in the future on a web site? Thanks - Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 12:57:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA03063; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:56:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:56:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:56:39 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi@exeter To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New paper In-Reply-To: <00c501beb509$e66ba520$63684fc6@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ieGwD1.0.ml.xjhOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10805 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael, I'm trying to get it at least onto an anonymous ftp server in postscript and word97 format. Zipped, these files are about 250K which is reasonable. I'll send you postscript? It unzips to >10M. postscript is more universal, no? Remi. On Sat, 12 Jun 1999, mrand@access wrote: > Hi Remi, > > I also am interested in your paper! Can you send me the file? Will it be, > in the future on a web site? > > Thanks - Michael Randall > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 13:21:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA12347; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:20:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:20:34 -0700 Message-ID: <00d801beb510$6ca7e800$63684fc6@default> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: New paper Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:16:14 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"sDD3X.0.q03.I4iOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10806 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Remi, Word97 format is more universal than postscript in the PC/ Windows world. Could not read the postscript unzipped file in Lotus Wordpro or Win/Word programs. If you have a word97 zip file please send me a copy. Thanks - Michael >Michael, > >I'm trying to get it at least onto an anonymous ftp server in postscript >and word97 format. Zipped, these files are about 250K which is reasonable. >I'll send you postscript? It unzips to >10M. postscript is more universal, >no? >Remi. > >On Sat, 12 Jun 1999, mrand@access wrote: > >> Hi Remi, >> >> I also am interested in your paper! Can you send me the file? Will it be, >> in the future on a web site? >> >> Thanks - Michael Randall >> >> >> >> >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 13:35:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA17116; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:34:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:34:41 -0700 From: dtmiller@nevia.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: T.H.Moray Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:34:49 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@nevia.net Message-ID: <3762a206.45126192@mail.nevia.net> References: <199906121005.MAA16802@front2.grolier.fr> In-Reply-To: <199906121005.MAA16802@front2.grolier.fr> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA17099 Resent-Message-ID: <"TyFv-.0.LB4.WHiOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10807 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jean-Pierre, I'd sure like a copy of that Moray patent. I'd like to see what principle it uses -- and how different it is from the Hulda Clark device. On Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:05:36 +0200 (MET DST), Jean-Pierre Lentin wrote: >Hello Colin > >Moray 1949 patent "Electrotherapeutic apparatus" has fairly precise >descriptions and 3 sheets of drawings. I have a zipped PDF copy I can send >you if you wish (675 kb). > >PS. IMHO it is very different from Rife. >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Jean-Pierre Lentin >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 14:22:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA27064; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:19:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:19:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990612171213.01190320@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:12:13 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: More VACE tests In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990611223731.23b7f1ce@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19990611192531.00b37b80@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"yA1g42.0.ic6.-xiOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10808 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave and all, At 10:37 PM 06/11/99, Dave wrote: >Hi Colin and all, >At 07:25 PM 6/11/99 -0700, you wrote: > >>I have read that they ceramics very difficult to re magnetize. (Perhaps >>reheating is also required?) If you are still unsuccessful, Tom Phipps had >>a friend from Argentina who did it successfully whom I could slow-mail >>request for the method if you wish-- or I can Email to you, that name and >>address. >Is that Jorge Valverde who was the co-author in the 21st Century magazine >article? I would be interested in any further info. I have found the Curie >temp. for typical ceramic magnets to be 460 deg.C, and a magnetization >required is at least 500x10^3 Amp-turns/meter. I do not know if heating to >460 deg. C changes the grain structure, or if the magnets have any >preferred poling direction. >Neodym magnets require even more. > Yes, thanks.. and I just recently received that paper from Tom-- "21st Century", Summer of 1998: 'Simulation of Amperian Current Elements by Magnetic Toroids' by Thomas E. Phipps, Jr., and Jorge Guala Valverde. On reading, it indicates that JGV used [over] 6,000 gauss Alnico for the magnetic material and not ceramic-- as I had surmised. A complete unbroken toroid with a circular B-field. Jorge's VACE dimensions were; OD-- 6 cm. ID-- 2 cm. I'm not sure of the thickness-- ( 6 cm?) I will send you his [Jorge's] address privately. BTW, here's something I don't understand: Phipps mentions in his papers that the longitudinal VACE force falls off approximately as the inverse sixth power. And yet, at 5.5 cm distance, there still remains 60 mg of force. I can not do the mathematical calculation, but if that is true, would not the forces at the centre, say at .05 cm, be extremely high? High enough to REALLY notice? Phipps chose not to reveal these force measurements in the VACE papers, since they were not germane to the paper, but I understand that you have been calculating these VACE forces. Does Phipps' "fall-off" measurements [inverse sixth power] seem ball park to you? I have magnetized 2 neutral 3" diameter ceramic (surplus & unknown) toroids, using the car battery. When the toroids were free, they did not interact except for a new phenomena of points of "stickiness" as they slid against each other. The sticky points corresponded with the inside and outside edges, and the effect was quite weak. Results: indeterminate to negative. Colin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 14:25:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA29488; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:21:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:21:18 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: http://www.u36.com/fred/patents - bunch more added Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:25:59 -0400 Message-ID: <19990612212559656.AAA173@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"QBnLC1.0.bC7.EziOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10809 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stuart wrote: >> I've added a bunch more old patents (Tesla, Moray) as .pdf files to: >> http://www.u36.com/fred/patents >> > >I keep trying to access your URL but it keeps failing:......... Hi, I just tried it and couldn't get on either. I've been trying to get this one for the last three days as well. http://www.eden.com/~little/Inc-W/2ndtry/run5.html Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 14:29:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA07183; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:27:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:27:01 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: T.H.Moray Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:31:26 -0400 Message-ID: <19990612213126640.AAA122@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"oMxDl.0.2m1.b2jOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10810 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Pierre wrote: >Moray 1949 patent "Electrotherapeutic apparatus" has fairly precise >descriptions and 3 sheets of drawings. I have a zipped PDF copy I can send >you if you wish (675 kb). > >PS. IMHO it is very different from Rife. >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Jean-Pierre Lentin >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'd like to see it too, if I could. With something that large though, is there any way you could post it to a website? Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 14:58:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA20491; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:54:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:54:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3762D6EA.6CF82A42@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 00:53:46 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: More VACE tests References: <3.0.5.32.19990611192531.00b37b80@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990612171213.01190320@inforamp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WMG3h2.0.405.DSjOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10811 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Quinney wrote: > [snip quoted parts] > > I have magnetized 2 neutral 3" diameter ceramic (surplus & unknown) > toroids, using the car battery. When the toroids were free, they did not > interact except for a new phenomena of points of "stickiness" as they slid > against each other. The sticky points corresponded with the inside and > outside edges, and the effect was quite weak. Results: indeterminate to > negative. > > Colin I am curious whether or not iron powder is spread up on one of these toroids will interact/align. Is there a difference on interactions between stacked toroids when fluxes are on the same direction and on counter direction? Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 15:47:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05356; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:47:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:47:13 -0700 Message-ID: <3762E7AF.74AC60C1@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:05:19 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: VACE FE motor?? References: <3.0.5.32.19990611192531.00b37b80@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990612171213.01190320@inforamp.net> <3762D6EA.6CF82A42@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P3hIt.0.WJ1.nDkOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10812 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi everyone, Glad to see some talk about VACEs here. Last year I designed a VACE motor. When I did the calculations using Ampere's force equation between 2 current elements to see if the idea would really work, the reults looked real good. But I think I must be missing something. Anyway, if you can find something wrong with the idea, please let me know. You can find the design, some calculations and diagrams at http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/VACE/vace01.html Let me know what you think. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 15:50:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06044; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:50:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:50:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990612184248.00fc46e0@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:42:48 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: More VACE tests In-Reply-To: <3762D6EA.6CF82A42@verisoft.com.tr> References: <3.0.5.32.19990611192531.00b37b80@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990612171213.01190320@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"KS2aa3.0.LU1.tGkOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10813 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Hamdi and all, At 12:53 AM 06/13/99 +0300, you wrote: > >I am curious whether or not iron powder is spread up on one of these toroids will interact/align. A good suggestion to observe flux leakage.. I will check for that after I obtain some iron filings. > >Is there a difference on interactions between stacked toroids when fluxes are on the same direction and on counter direction? Unfortunately, the effect was tiny. I reversed one of the toroids and continued sliding them, and it seemed at first momentarily stronger, but after a while the effect seemed to disappear. Either my imagination was overactive, or I was demagnetizing the toroids [through induction] from sliding them back and forth too quickly. Colin. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 16:15:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA12347; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:14:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:14:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3762E9F1.4DB944EC@harti.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 01:14:57 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: DC voltage with stacked permanent magnets toroids ? X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4SLTo1.0.l03.kdkOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10814 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I have a question, food for thought, which might seem to be the logical conclusion of the following experiment: Please have a look at: http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/ortho1.htm and especially at the lower part of the picture: http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/fig3.gif The lower part of this picture could be interpreted as 5 linearly stacked permanent magnet toroids (red colored circles) (VACE), where the A-Field could generate an E-Field (DC Voltage) on the conductor (blue color) ? Is this possible ? Just take 5 donut permanent magnet toroids, where the B-Field is inside the toroids, stack them up top on top, put a wire through it (through the hole), or just better a coil and you will have a free DC power source ? Even better, take many more toroids and stack them together in a 360 degree circular position, (e.g. 36 pieces each 10 degrees angle spaced) A conductor closed loop placed inside this loop of circular inner A-Field should heat up, cause it is a short circuited DC power source...? Is this right ? Will this work ? It just sounds too simple. Where is my thinking error ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 16:21:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA13179; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:17:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:17:10 -0700 Message-ID: <3762EA60.EE42D41C@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 02:16:48 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: More VACE tests References: <3.0.5.32.19990611192531.00b37b80@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990612171213.01190320@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990612184248.00fc46e0@inforamp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2gXPA2.0.qD3.rfkOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10815 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: An other idea to test irregularity/leaks on toroids: suspend one of them by a tread on it center like in the diagram at http://www.gravity.org/try.htm And place the other one on the same axis below it and see how the suspended one re-position itself, change its rotation and inclination angles by the weak interaction like just it's wanted on the gravity modification experiment. Keeping the arm (1) at zero length or even negative (attaching the tread at the middle position along the thickness of the toroid) will increase the inclination sensitivity (and instability). After then it would be pausible to suspend toroids vertically and see how the are sycronize. If no strong interactions are present it would be useful to place them inside boxes to avoid distubance by air movements. Quinney wrote: > > Hi Hamdi and all, > [snip] > Unfortunately, the effect was tiny. [snip] > Colin. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 16:36:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA18455; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:30:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:30:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3762EDC6.3C6DBB28@harti.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 01:31:18 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: DC voltage with stacked permanent magnets toroids ? X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Bk5aZ2.0.GW4.AskOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10816 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, just as I have posted my message I find curiously a message from Robert Gray in my mailbox having simular ideas ! Have a look at his pics, then it gets clearer what I mean at: http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/VACE/vace01.html especially the picture: http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/VACE/motor01.gif >Even better, >take many more toroids and stack them together >in a 360 degree circular position, >(e.g. 36 pieces each 10 degrees angle spaced) > >A conductor closed loop placed inside this loop of circular >inner A-Field should heat up, >cause it is a short circuited DC power source...? > >Is this right ? >Will this work ? > >It just sounds too simple. >Where is my thinking error ? > Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 17:09:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA28511; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:08:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:08:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990612200046.00fc4330@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:00:46 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? In-Reply-To: <3762E7AF.74AC60C1@servtech.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990611192531.00b37b80@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990612171213.01190320@inforamp.net> <3762D6EA.6CF82A42@verisoft.com.tr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Pd5IS2.0.Oz6.-PlOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10817 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob, Welcome to the VACE list. We were sort of trying to keep the FE possibilities kinda quiet while we experimented like mad in secret, but now you've blown all that ;-)) Very nice drawings, btw. Colin At 07:05 PM 06/12/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi everyone, > >Glad to see some talk about VACEs here. > >Last year I designed a VACE motor. When I did the calculations >using Ampere's force equation between 2 current elements >to see if the idea would really work, the reults looked real good. > >But I think I must be missing something. > >Anyway, if you can find something wrong with the idea, please let >me know. > >You can find the design, some calculations and diagrams at > >http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/VACE/vace01.html > >Let me know what you think. > >Bob Gray > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 18:05:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA05225; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:04:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:04:37 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990612205653.00fcd680@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:56:53 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: DC voltage with stacked permanent magnets toroids ? In-Reply-To: <3762EDC6.3C6DBB28@harti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"BO2d93.0.UH1.bEmOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10818 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan, At 01:31 AM 06/13/99 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, > >just as I have posted my message I find >curiously a message from >Robert Gray in my mailbox having simular ideas ! > Great minds! >Have a look at his pics, >then it gets clearer what I mean at: > >http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/VACE/vace01.html > >especially the picture: >http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/VACE/motor01.gif > >>Even better, >>take many more toroids and stack them together >>in a 360 degree circular position, >>(e.g. 36 pieces each 10 degrees angle spaced) >> >>A conductor closed loop placed inside this loop of circular >>inner A-Field should heat up, >>cause it is a short circuited DC power source...? >> >>Is this right ? >>Will this work ? >> >>It just sounds too simple. >>Where is my thinking error ? Yes, there should be an electric field, but it's probably just the virtual E-field. To make it real, there probably has to be a relative motion of some kind. IOW, it may be similar to a situation in the homopolar motor, where if the measuring device is rotating with the system, you cannot measure current and voltage. It's there though, all the same. That's my shot and I'm sticking to it. :-)) I'm still trying to shoot Robert Gray's FE VACE theory down, but it's difficult with virtual currents resulting in a real forces. Colin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 19:13:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20135; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:13:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:13:19 -0700 Message-ID: <376317FA.7A741813@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:31:22 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DC voltage with stacked permanent magnets toroids ? References: <3.0.5.32.19990612205653.00fcd680@inforamp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xF7FP3.0.Ww4._EnOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10819 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > I'm still trying to shoot Robert Gray's FE VACE theory down, but it's > difficult with virtual currents resulting in a real forces. > > Colin This is exaclty the kind of response I was looking for. Yes, take it apart!!! Find the error! So far, I can't. Unless I use the energy equations, that is. If I use the energy equations then there is no force because there is no difference in energy between one orientation and another. On the other hand, if you *start* with energy conservation your not going to get any OU effects! ;) Which is why I try to use force questions. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 19:19:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22835; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:19:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:19:15 -0700 Message-ID: <3763195E.3F75043C@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:37:18 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DC voltage with stacked permanent magnets toroids ? References: <3762E9F1.4DB944EC@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ifRGI1.0.da5.XKnOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10820 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Hi, > > I have a question, food for thought, > which might seem to be the logical conclusion > of the following experiment: > > Please have a look at: > http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/ortho1.htm > > and especially at the lower part of the picture: > http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/fig3.gif > Very nice.... I need to spend more time with it, but so far I like what I see.... > > The lower part of this picture > could be interpreted as > 5 linearly stacked permanent magnet toroids > (red colored circles) (VACE), > where the A-Field > could generate an E-Field > (DC Voltage) on the conductor (blue color) ? > > Is this possible ? > I would not have expected a current to be induced in the wire. I say this because the Ampere current element does not seem to be the same as an electron flow current. And if the VACE is just like an Ampere current element, I wouldn't expect it to induce an electron flow current. I don't *know* for sure, just my guess. But I am always willing to learn. So when I get a little more time, I'll look over the above web page in a little more detail. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 19:31:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA25655; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:27:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:27:04 -0700 Message-ID: <37631B36.93FA6893@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:45:11 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DC voltage with stacked permanent magnets toroids ? References: <3762EDC6.3C6DBB28@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JuS9A3.0.mG6.uRnOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10821 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Hi, > > just as I have posted my message I find > curiously a message from > Robert Gray in my mailbox having simular ideas ! The talk of VACEs here reminded me of the work I did last year on VACEs and I thought I should get the ideas I had out before someone else did!! And because I see an interest in others in this subject and thought I could help out. Anyway, I am trying to remember why I stoped looking at VACEs. I think I rememeber doing some calculations with some energy relations and finding that the device I describe on my web page would not rotate. But now I think *those* calculations may have been wrong.... Also, I wanted to have some VACEs made to do some testing. But what I wanted to do turned out to cost too much. When thing cost too much, I tend to loose interest.... I also seem to remember reading in Graneau's book that Ampere's force is a conservative force. Which means no OU effects? Anyway, as I said, good to see others taking an interest in VACEs. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 19:42:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA29231; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:40:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:40:16 -0700 Message-ID: <012801beb546$53af7b20$62a645d1@nimmachine> From: "Psy-Kosh" To: References: <199808021430.KAA17481@centi.mks.com> <000001beb4a3$f0e8a540$98c41bca@rae> Subject: Re: http://www.u36.com/fred/patents - bunch more added Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:42:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"WsNMX3.0.X87.FenOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10822 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If you want Tesla's patents, there's a book put out by Barnes&Noble Books Called "The Complete Patents of Nikola Tesla" and it has all of them. Now stop drooling and go get it. :) Psy-Kosh DC2.!(scientist)/?(?(H)) r++/r+++! Gm a- s++ u-.5 (Carestaff member) "The scientist who would rather refute than comprehend demonstrates he has chosen the wrong calling." -The Forever Machine ------------------------------------------------ I keep trying to access your URL but it keeps failing:......... I would give my right arm to have access to some of Tesla's old Patents, but the UERL keeps failing. Is it me, or is there something wrong with your reference....?? Regards, SR. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Stuart. Rae, Blenheim, New Zealand. srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 12 19:49:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA00641; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:49:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:49:09 -0700 Message-ID: <37631B94.E5B3E557@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:46:44 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: http://www.u36.com/fred/patents - bunch more added References: <199808021430.KAA17481@centi.mks.com> <000001beb4a3$f0e8a540$98c41bca@rae> <012801beb546$53af7b20$62a645d1@nimmachine> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bQR7l2.0.w9.bmnOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10823 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Fred Walters Tesla patent page is mirrored at; http://www.keelynet.com/tesla/index.html -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 00:05:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA07418; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 00:04:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 00:04:13 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990612223855.18970e16@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:38:55 To: Stefan Hartmann , freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: DC voltage with stacked permanent magnets toroids ? In-Reply-To: <3762E9F1.4DB944EC@harti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hDMMv1.0.lp1.iVrOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10824 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan and all, At 01:14 AM 6/13/99 +0200, Stefan wrote: >Hi, > >I have a question, food for thought, >which might seem to be the logical conclusion >of the following experiment: > >Please have a look at: >http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/ortho1.htm > >and especially at the lower part of the picture: >http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/fig3.gif > >The lower part of this picture >could be interpreted as >5 linearly stacked permanent magnet toroids >(red colored circles) (VACE), >where the A-Field >could generate an E-Field >(DC Voltage) on the conductor (blue color) ? > >Is this possible ? > Yes, the toroids will produce an A field through the center of the toroids. The question is whether this is a "whorl in the aether"? As far as this producing an E field, I have seen no indication of it. I suspect an AC is required. Running a current through the wire running through the center results in a force on it, which I am now trying to figure out. Would there be a force between a "real" and "virtual" current, both in the same location? So far it appears it may be some leakage or nonuniform flux, I am looking into better (uniform) toroids at the moment. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 00:37:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA11051; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 00:36:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 00:36:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990612230918.2f77d348@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:09:18 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? In-Reply-To: <3762E7AF.74AC60C1@servtech.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990611192531.00b37b80@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990612171213.01190320@inforamp.net> <3762D6EA.6CF82A42@verisoft.com.tr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"KVRm-3.0.ai2.D-rOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10825 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob and all, At 07:05 PM 6/12/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi everyone, > >Glad to see some talk about VACEs here. > >Last year I designed a VACE motor. When I did the calculations >using Ampere's force equation between 2 current elements >to see if the idea would really work, the reults looked real good. > >But I think I must be missing something. > Yes, there sure seems to be a difference between the conventional (energy and symmetry) and the VACE force explanation!! The force at the bottom is zero,, as your example shows, and a net same torque on either side. Have you worked out if there are some opposing torques, say at the upper part of the torus? If "alpha" is the angle of the elements in the torus, this angle goes through 1 complete revolution. Of course the distances change too. Or would this only be if the torus was large enough so the angle with the single vace were larger than 35.3 deg.? I have not bought Peter Graneau's book(s), yet, can you explain more the differences between forces on "virtual" and real currents? In particular, why cannot the torus of vace elements be replaced by a (real) current loop (as for a test)? Ampere used only real currents and in complete loops, as far as I know, so does Dr. Graneau explain how "current elements" are found and measured. >Anyway, if you can find something wrong with the idea, please let >me know. > >You can find the design, some calculations and diagrams at > >http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/VACE/vace01.html > >Let me know what you think. > >Bob Gray > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 06:08:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA24145; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 06:00:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 06:00:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3763AFBB.2E99D441@servtech.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:18:51 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? References: <3.0.5.32.19990611192531.00b37b80@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990612171213.01190320@inforamp.net> <3762D6EA.6CF82A42@verisoft.com.tr> <3.0.6.16.19990612230918.2f77d348@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Rr6JJ3.0.Av5._jwOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10826 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave Dameron wrote: > Hi Bob and all, > At 07:05 PM 6/12/99 -0400, you wrote: > > > >Hi everyone, > > > >Glad to see some talk about VACEs here. > > > >Last year I designed a VACE motor. When I did the calculations > >using Ampere's force equation between 2 current elements > >to see if the idea would really work, the reults looked real good. > > > >But I think I must be missing something. > > > Yes, there sure seems to be a difference between the conventional (energy > and symmetry) and the VACE force explanation!! The force at the bottom is > zero,, as your example shows, and a net same torque on either side. Have > you worked out if there are some opposing torques, say at the upper part of > the torus? At the very top, the force is zero again. Just to the right and left, at the top, the forces "should" contribute to the torque. I'll add this case to my web page. > If "alpha" is the angle of the elements in the torus, this angle > goes through 1 complete revolution. Of course the distances change too. Or > would this only be if the torus was large enough so the angle with the > single vace were larger than 35.3 deg.? Yes, the VACEs making up the torus travel through 360 degrees. So there is a torque on these VACEs. But the torque is about the middle of the VACE and not about the center of the torus. And since the VACEs are "glued in" and can not rotate within the torus, these torques should have no effect. > I have not bought Peter Graneau's > book(s), yet, can you explain more the differences between forces on > "virtual" and real currents? In particular, why cannot the torus of vace > elements be replaced by a (real) current loop (as for a test)? Ampere used > only real currents and in complete loops, as far as I know, so does Dr. > Graneau explain how "current elements" are found and measured. > There seems to be 3 types of "current" here, maybe more. The first is the "normal" electron flow current. The second is the Ampere current element. This may include, in part, the normal electron flow current but its more than that. For example, Ampere's current elements can develop longitudenal forces between current elements (which results in exploding wires.) The 3rd "current" seems to be the VACEs. I don't know to what degree all these overlap. My guess is that the applied voltage induces dipole moments in the atoms in addition to cause the electrons to "flow". The resulting dipole-dipole interactions between the atoms (plus the electron flow) may be an Ampere current. And the VACEs may be "just" the vector potential. The problem with using "normal" wire and currents to test some of these things out is that you get a magnet field everywhere. Then you have to figure out if the effect is due to the magnetic field or not. With the VACE, as you know, the magnetic field is only in the material and not "all over the place" so its easier to say that the effect is not due to the magnetic field. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 08:23:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA14422; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:20:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:20:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990613065321.2387c2fc@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 06:53:21 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: More VACE tests In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990612171213.01190320@inforamp.net> References: <3.0.6.16.19990611223731.23b7f1ce@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990611192531.00b37b80@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"42DGL2.0.FX3.EnyOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10827 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Colin and all, At 05:12 PM 6/12/99 -0700, you wrote: >>Is that Jorge Valverde who was the co-author in the 21st Century magazine >>article? >Yes, thanks.. and I just recently received that paper from Tom-- "21st >Century", Summer of 1998: 'Simulation of Amperian Current Elements by >Magnetic Toroids' by Thomas E. Phipps, Jr., and Jorge Guala Valverde. >On reading, it indicates that JGV used [over] 6,000 gauss Alnico for the >magnetic material and not ceramic-- as I had surmised. A complete unbroken >toroid with a circular B-field. >Jorge's VACE dimensions were; OD-- 6 cm. ID-- 2 cm. I'm not sure of the >thickness-- ( 6 cm?) Yes, 6cm also. > >BTW, here's something I don't understand: >Phipps mentions in his papers that the longitudinal VACE force falls off >approximately as the inverse sixth power. And yet, at 5.5 cm distance, >there still remains 60 mg of force. I can not do the mathematical >calculation, but if that is true, would not the forces at the centre, say >at .05 cm, be extremely high? High enough to REALLY notice? Phipps chose >not to reveal these force measurements in the VACE papers, since they were >not germane to the paper, but I understand that you have been calculating >these VACE forces. Does Phipps' "fall-off" measurements [inverse sixth >power] seem ball park to you? They could be. The B field of a short wire segment falls off as the square of distance and of a current loop as the cube of the distance, and if the force is proportional to B^2, then you would get fourth and sixth powers. I have tried some current loop tests to see if they show the same results as a VACE. They don't; in particular, the force isn't along the line between their centers. If there is no external B field, then conventional physics has no explanation that I know of to predict the distance fall off. Usually one sees the equations with something added to the r, so the fall off is only far away. For example, 1/(r^2+a^2)^1.5 so one sees the 1/r^3 form only when r is larger than a. > >I have magnetized 2 neutral 3" diameter ceramic (surplus & unknown) >toroids, using the car battery. When the toroids were free, they did not >interact except for a new phenomena of points of "stickiness" as they slid >against each other. The sticky points corresponded with the inside and >outside edges, and the effect was quite weak. Results: indeterminate to >negative. > Do you think the effect disappears quickly like the soft steel magnetization tests? Do they actually have to touch? Can you have a piece of paper between them. It would be helpful to somehow independently verify the enclosed field. I can think of: 1) Have a broken one, that you can measure the separation force. 2) Definite VACE results. 3) Repole with a sense wire, exactly as was done with the computer core memories. 4) Some type of laser Aharonov-Bohm effect? 5) Some type of "Curl free" A field detector. No. 4 and 5 are more speculative... Does anyone have any others? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 08:53:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA22841; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:53:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:53:20 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990613072624.25570876@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:26:24 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? In-Reply-To: <3763AFBB.2E99D441@servtech.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990611192531.00b37b80@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990612171213.01190320@inforamp.net> <3762D6EA.6CF82A42@verisoft.com.tr> <3.0.6.16.19990612230918.2f77d348@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ozYdM.0.ka5.mFzOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10828 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob and all, At 09:18 AM 6/13/99 -0400, you wrote: > >> Yes, there sure seems to be a difference between the conventional (energy >> and symmetry) and the VACE force explanation!! The force at the bottom is >> zero,, as your example shows, and a net same torque on either side. Have >> you worked out if there are some opposing torques, say at the upper part of >> the torus? > >At the very top, the force is zero again. Just to the right and left, at the >top, >the forces "should" contribute to the torque. I'll add this case to my web >page. For understanding, I was thinking of a single VACE tangentially on a wheel and another fixed radially. Plot the torque as the wheel VACE is rotated 360 deg. It is zero at the top and bottom, and all the same sign to either of these 2 points. Is it the same sign for all angles between? You have sort have done this in a polar plot on your page. >> If "alpha" is the angle of the elements in the torus, this angle >> goes through 1 complete revolution. Of course the distances change too. Or >> would this only be if the torus was large enough so the angle with the >> single vace were larger than 35.3 deg.? > >Yes, the VACEs making up the torus travel through 360 degrees. So there is >a torque on these VACEs. But the torque is about the middle of the VACE and >not about the center of the torus. And since the VACEs are "glued in" and can >not >rotate within the torus, these torques should have no effect. Yes, only the rotating torque will be of interest, as opposed to some radial force. >There seems to be 3 types of "current" here, maybe more. The first is the >"normal" >electron flow current. The second is the Ampere current element. This may >include, >in part, the normal electron flow current but its more than that. For example, >Ampere's >current elements can develop longitudenal forces between current elements >(which >results in exploding wires.) The 3rd "current" seems to be the VACEs. I don't >know >to what degree all these overlap. My guess is that the applied voltage induces >dipole >moments in the atoms in addition to cause the electrons to "flow". The >resulting dipole-dipole interactions between the atoms (plus the electron flow) >may >be an Ampere current. And the VACEs may be "just" the vector potential. > >The problem with using "normal" wire and currents to test some of these >things out is that you get a magnet field everywhere. Then you have to figure >out if the effect is due to the magnetic field or not. Yes, that's the big question. Have you read how Ampere did it in the 1820's? I wonder if the "normal" currents and the "magnetization" currents can be treated the same?? If not, maybe they would be more so in a superconductor? With the VACE, as you >know, >the magnetic field is only in the material and not "all over the place" so its >easier >to say that the effect is not due to the magnetic field. Yes, determinining what "stray" magnetic fields there are is a good part of the tests. If one can rotate a single VACE element around its axis and see differences, then there must be some residual magnetic field. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 09:05:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA26948; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:04:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:04:15 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990613120032.009585f0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:01:29 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: Re: HV Experiments In-Reply-To: <19990609041250625.AAA271@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"VM3DG1.0.za6._PzOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10829 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: i know that i'm supposed to look for a tv flyback transformer or a microwave or neon transformer, but what voltage and amps am i looking for? And Mike, I live in Staten Island, New York. We're a landfill too. I'll see about askin the garbage man, if i can ever catch him. Also...do you guys suggest any sites? >Hi Rymel, > >From your e-mail address, I gather you are living in the US, which produces >the most trash per capita of any nation in the world. While salvaging junk >has become a cottage industry, and a TV repair shop will probably keep any >component that still functions because it is cheaper than ordering new >parts, it's because _that is their business_. There is no end to the junk >that you can find if you know where to look. I was born in Gary, Indiana, >which IS a landfill. Ask your garbage man where to find stuff. As for the >license, no, they haven't figured out a way to regulate guys like us:-) but >you should use your head. If you damage the power company's lines, make a >big stink, or even just freak out the neighbors, you could be charged in a >civil action and fined. You could also hurt someone or yourself, so read as >much as you can before you start building anything and go flipping HV >switches, and be careful. If you are not sure about something, ask >questions. A lot of guys here have built that kind of stuff, and are glad >to help you. > >Knuke > > >Michael T. Huffman >Huffman Technology Company >1121 Dustin Drive >The Villages, Florida 32159 >(352)259-1276 >knuke@LCIA.COM >http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 09:18:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA32449; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:17:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:17:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990613120939.00e67df0@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:09:39 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: More VACE tests In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990613065321.2387c2fc@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19990612171213.01190320@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990611223731.23b7f1ce@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990611192531.00b37b80@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"DBSt3.0.ww7.EczOt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10830 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave and all, At 06:53 AM 06/13/99, you wrote: >>I have magnetized 2 neutral 3" diameter ceramic (surplus & unknown) >>toroids, using the car battery. When the toroids were free, they did not >>interact except for a new phenomena of points of "stickiness" as they slid >>against each other. The sticky points corresponded with the inside and >>outside edges, and the effect was quite weak. Results: indeterminate to >>negative. >> >Do you think the effect disappears quickly like the soft steel >magnetization tests? Yes >Do they actually have to touch? Can you have a piece of paper between them. If not touching, they were too weak to really sense. >It would be helpful to somehow independently verify the enclosed field. I >can think of: >3) Repole with a sense wire, exactly as was done with the computer core >memories. > >Does anyone have any others? Re #3 above, [taking it further,] why not a small flat high impedance coil layed flat against the toriod's flat face. Any sine wave applied to that coil should see a flattening of the scope signal from an induction-- a directional bias? (Does that make any sense?) Colin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 10:27:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA17506; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:26:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:26:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3763BFED.7B9C@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:27:57 -0400 From: Alik Shereshevsky Reply-To: alik@intergate.bc.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: More VACE tests References: <3.0.5.32.19990612171213.01190320@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990611223731.23b7f1ce@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990611192531.00b37b80@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990613120939.00e67df0@inforamp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IMm5_.0.RH4.-c-Ot"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10831 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This may or may not be of any use with respect to VACEs but may be it will give someone an extra idea. In 1982 or so I came across a paper by Gunner Sandberg from U.of Southampton on experiments they did to replicate Searl's magnets (the antigrav thing). They used toroidal NeFeB magnets and magnetized them with a pulse of DC current + a few cycles of AC (60hz ?) on top of DC. The result was a magnet with whole bunch of little poles looking out of its perimeter. The e-mail about the toroids having 'sticky points' reminded me of this. I have no idea how valid that info was. Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 12:38:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18353; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:29:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:29:43 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:28:45 EDT Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Resent-Message-ID: <"4sAAO1.0.cU4.cQ0Pt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10832 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/13/99 6:01:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rwgray@servtech.com writes: << > Yes, there sure seems to be a difference between the conventional (energy > and symmetry) and the VACE force explanation!! The force at the bottom is > zero,, as your example shows, and a net same torque on either side. Have > you worked out if there are some opposing torques, say at the upper part of > the torus? At the very top, the force is zero again. Just to the right and left, at the top, the forces "should" contribute to the torque. I'll add this case to my web page. > If "alpha" is the angle of the elements in the torus, this angle > goes through 1 complete revolution. Of course the distances change too. Or > would this only be if the torus was large enough so the angle with the > single vace were larger than 35.3 deg.? Yes, the VACEs making up the torus travel through 360 degrees. So there is a torque on these VACEs. But the torque is about the middle of the VACE and not about the center of the torus. And since the VACEs are "glued in" and can not rotate within the torus, these torques should have no effect. >> If I understand correctly you are saying each individual VACE has a torque at each position of its 360 degrees and it does not sum to zero. If this is true and they are all held in place by some frame so the individual VACEs do not change their relative orientations, then the whole frame, including VACEs should rotate. That is, the FRAME sees a net rotational moment on it and will rotate. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 13:02:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20136; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <376410AB.8D8BD283@servtech.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:12:27 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jUIV73.0.Xw4.qt0Pt"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10833 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > If I understand correctly you are saying each individual VACE has a torque at > each position of its 360 degrees and it does not sum to zero. If this is > true and they are all held in place by some frame so the individual VACEs do > not change their relative orientations, then the whole frame, including VACEs > should rotate. That is, the FRAME sees a net rotational moment on it and > will rotate. > > Ken Keasy@aol.com That's what I am trying to figure out. Either 1) I did the calculations wrong, and it doesn't work, 2) Or the calculations are correct, but there is another effect I haven't taken into consideration, so it doesn't work 3) Or its physicaly imposible to construct, so it doesn't mater if it really works or not 4) Or it really works and we should be able to construct it. I am hoping someone else will check the calculations so we can rule that one out. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 13:41:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA04731; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:36:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:36:44 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <4826b92.24956fe9@aol.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:34:49 EDT Subject: Re: "Simple" magnetics question To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Resent-Message-ID: <"D-mUD2.0.m91.RP1Pt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10834 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave and all, In a message dated 6/12/99 12:05:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: << >Suppose we have 7 identical disk magnets polarized on their flat surfaces. >On a straight line in space we place the magnets, equally spaced, nsnsnsns--- >so the straight line is centered on the disks, parallel to the B field, (and >we hold them so they don't all crash together). Now we twist every magnet 45 >degrees to the straight line (with all the flat magnet surfaces still >parallel). We know the center magnet is force balanced so it will not be >attracted to the 2nd or 4th magnet, BUT will it try to twist to align itself >perpendicular to the straight line? I tried this, if I understand the problem correctly. I used 3 magnets, all that I could hold and twist with my hands, anything special about ? >> Nothing special about 7. I was just hoping to use a large enough number to reduce end effects. <> If that is true then one might think that if you used a large number of magnets all rotated to 45 degrees that they would all experience a torque, except for possibly the ones very near the end. Then you may be able to bend the whole thing into a large circle without changing the torque on the individual magnets very much. Then you hold all of the magnets relative to each other with a frame. The frame then feels a net rotational moment and will rotate. This is virtually the same geometry as is being proposed for the toroidal array of VACEs. Ken OK, how about if the magnet polarities >were nssnnssnnssnns? If anyone believes there will be a torque I will post >the next question: why can't we make a overunity device by --- >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 16:39:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA16710; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:38:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:38:55 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990613193426.009595a0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: rymel@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:36:09 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rymel Subject: transformer for sale on ebay In-Reply-To: <376410AB.8D8BD283@servtech.com> References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_25179161==_.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <"tL6Np.0._44.E44Pt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10835 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_25179161==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" hey guys, is this a good deal? should i grab it? sony tv flyback transformer http: //cgi-new.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=115349601 --=====================_25179161==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" hey guys, is this a good deal? should i grab it?

sony tv flyback transformer
http://cgi-new.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=115349601
--=====================_25179161==_.ALT-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 17:52:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA04721; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:51:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:51:54 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: HV Experiments Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:56:33 -0400 Message-ID: <19990614005633921.AAA140@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"2dWy7.0.f91.f85Pt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10836 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >i know that i'm supposed to look for a tv flyback transformer or a >microwave or neon transformer, but what voltage and amps am i looking for? >And Mike, I live in Staten Island, New York. We're a landfill too. I'll >see about askin the garbage man, if i can ever catch him. > >Also...do you guys suggest any sites? Ahoy! Someone posted this one some time ago, and I flipped when I saw it. I dug around in there and found something called Sam Goldwasser's Bookmarks. There is a great deal of stuff on HV and a million other electronics subjects. A lot of good safety info, too. http://www.repairfaq.org/ Good Luck! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 18:23:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA14051; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:23:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:23:00 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: transformer for sale on ebay Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:27:39 -0400 Message-ID: <19990614012739406.AAA267@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"c57Rv2.0.RR3.qb5Pt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10837 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >hey guys, is this a good deal? should i grab it? > >sony tv flyback transformer Looks like it weighs a few pounds, and you would have to pay the shipping. As long as you're not employed, time is cheaper than money. Tell your garbage man that there's a fiver in it for him for a TV, and I doubt if you'll have to wait too long. Tell him you don't want any junk ones though! 8^) Or maybe that should be, only the finest junk will do. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 21:33:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA02107; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:32:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:32:26 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? Message-Id: <929334736.10803.809@excite.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:32:16 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"Mnpj12.0.mW.PN8Pt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10838 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:05:19 -0400, Robert Gray wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Glad to see some talk about VACEs here. > > Last year I designed a VACE motor. When I did the calculations > using Ampere's force equation between 2 current elements > to see if the idea would really work, the reults looked real good. > > But I think I must be missing something. > > Anyway, if you can find something wrong with the idea, please let > me know. > > You can find the design, some calculations and diagrams at > > http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/VACE/vace01.html > > Let me know what you think. > > Bob Gray > In the middle 80's I had an idea that recently returned with modifications. I think I submitted this once before under Norris Magnetic Ring Motor on 2/99. At that time several people noted that it could not work as advertised in that conception as the working principle the ring cannot rotate without without some kind of bearing or physical connection to prevent the ring from hugging the field coils at some point. I can fully agree with this. This is why we have a discussion list so that if an idea is outlandish or even impossible we can throw it out to others to gauge their opinions. Rather than getting bogged down over a preliminary argument I would wish the readers of freenrg-l to again consider this through the entirety to understand how a toroidal magnetic field might be effectively be decoupled to interact with field coils by the use of aluminum segments to create this decoupling through traditional eddy currents that occur most effectively in aluminum, in contrast to copper which has a lesser resistance. No one has explained to me why this is so. Rather than directing to my message board at http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 I am resubmitting the previous post from February 99 with no corrections. Imagine a copper magnetic motor that has a ring armature that rotates freely in space with no connections Imagine a hula hoop or plastic toroidal magnet container. You have many aluminum and neodmium discs that you shove into the hoop in alternating sequence until the ring is completed. Before this ring is completed field windings are slipped over the width of the hoop before closing it in a ring formation. Each of these field coils have an appreciable air gap between their interior diameters and the ring diameter encompassed in a section so that the ring can freely spin in this space with no support or bearings. Each of the field coils are the length of the discs. Let us start by considering this system without the aluminum and an air space instead. Aligning the magnets all in the exterior polar space of the field coils and inputing a dc amperage to the field coils will result in the hoop picking itself up and suspending itself perfectly in the interior space that the ring occupies with no other physical contacts. This happens because each magnet will go to the position where it is in maximum field alignment with its corresponding field coil. It is the containing plastic ring that will allow each of the magnets to remain suspended at its maximum alignment position. The simplicity of this magnetically levitated ring is also dependent on each magnet successfully interacting with each field coil; which in the case of a purely toriodal magnetic rotor may not be the case: I don' t know enough physics to say. Now of course if these coils undergo a polarity change the magnets will be expelled outside the coils and the next polarity change will bring them into the next set of coils. This is my model for a high frequency copper magnetic motor. The first thing that leaves people aghast is how are you going to turn anything with this since you have a ring revolving in space touching nothing. The second thing that baffles them is the modification of including aluminum. To deal with the first issue every force has an equal and opposite reaction force. If you put a fan on a sailboat the force the fan makes on the sail is cancelled by force the fan makes on the boat. But in this case the magnetic rotor is like the fan being off or disconnected from the boat. The field coils exercize a force that propels the magnets, but the magnets also could move the field coils if they were mounted on a turntable like the old record players. So essentially the relative movement between the field coils and magnets can express itself as a torque by the field coils on a movable shaft ! What a wild contraption where a spinning ring in space couples magnetically to spin a set of field coils spinning in the opposite direction. Of course such a motor could function at a fantastically high input frequency and the rotational inertia of the ring could be made quite high and the rpms attainable might start to degrade the structural integrity of the plastic magnet holder from centrifugal forces. The need for a braking effect introduced by aluminum eddy currents on segments might become necessary if the input frequency requirements became extraordinairily high. Additionally I think these would become effective decouplers of the toroidal magnetic field on every other segment that should act when the eddy currents produce a magnetic field in opposition to that established in the same direction by the neodymium magnets. As the aluminum segments cross the interior of the field coils they produce an opposing force on the magnetic rings rotation, but in turn this pinches off the toroidal field so that the magnets can more interact in a isolated condition with the field coils. The gain employed by this effect is to essentially pulse the toroidal field to produce a more effective interaction of the field coil immediately prior to its entrance and after its exit from the field coils. Food for thought, HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 21:43:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA04639; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:39:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:39:31 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Sensitivity of Multi Turn Recieving Loops Message-Id: <929335149.29422.73@excite.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:39:09 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"yCVxd2.0.O81.3U8Pt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10839 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thought this web page would be of interest to the group. http://members.aol.com/us66soft/looptheo.htm Hope I didnt mess up the address as I have done in the past. Sincerly Harvey D Norris _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 21:58:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA10679; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37648A71.E9A90B4B@harti.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:52:01 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_kwmA2.0.mc2._k8Pt"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10840 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://members.teleweb.at/preiss/update1.html Hi All, read this. This is the update how to construct a new type of N-machine, which is able to scale up the output power pretty easy and also get much higher voltages out. Mr. Preiss really has understood the basic principle of the N-Machine with its reaction (drag) free principle to generate electricity. This is a new form of Lenz law violation ! Read it ! For english translation use: http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/ Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 22:07:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA11602; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:05:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:05:25 -0700 Message-ID: <006c01beb62b$c5955620$807988d1@monorailpc> From: "code" To: Subject: Re: Sensitivity of Multi Turn Recieving Loops Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:04:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"W3oMj3.0.Br2.Ks8Pt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10841 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wow! Something in this sure seems to correlate to the Newman devices. Is it possible that the large coils Newman used in his early devices were just giant receiving coils for the aether-related frequencies and that the sparks associated with his commutator somehow allowed for translation of those received frequencies into usable energy? Best regards, Alan -----Original Message----- From: Harvey Norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, June 13, 1999 10:48 PM Subject: Sensitivity of Multi Turn Recieving Loops >Thought this web page would be of interest to the group. >http://members.aol.com/us66soft/looptheo.htm >Hope I didnt mess up the address as I have done in the past. Sincerly Harvey >D Norris > > > > >_______________________________________________________ >Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 22:16:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15524; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:16:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:16:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3764904D.DECDF493@harti.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:17:01 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: Newman-L Mailing List , "ddameron@earthlink.net" , atg0317 , atglab , "JNaudin509@aol.com" Subject: Re: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage ! References: <37648A71.E9A90B4B@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"r0zvy.0.Po3.L09Pt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10842 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://members.teleweb.at/preiss/update1.html For easier understanding I am just explaining the main principle here: A conductor is glued onto a permanent magnet, so the real length of the conductor, that sees the induction voltage, can NOT move, so NO DRAG FORCE can be delivered onto it, cause it is glued onto the permanent magnet ! the only part of the conductor which will move is the connector wire, but at 90 degrees, so there the Lorentz drag force is pretty small... Now the trick is to make the area delta A big (long conductor) and you get a bigger induction voltage by using the formular: Vind.=dPhi/dt= B x dA/dt As the magnet is NOT moved, but just the area delta A is varied you can see, that there is not much Lenz law drag onto the conductor who generates the induction voltage, even if you draw a bigger current from it, cause it is glued onto the permanent magnet ! Also it generates AC power which can be easily transformed to other voltage levels. I also have a few ideas how to scale up a normal rotating N-machine. now as the basic principle is clear to me, so one could get a higher voltage output from a rotating type N-machine. Regards, Stefan. Stefan Hartmann schrieb: > > http://members.teleweb.at/preiss/update1.html > > Hi All, > > read this. > > This is the update how to construct a new type > of N-machine, which is able to scale up the output power > pretty easy and also get much higher voltages out. > > Mr. Preiss really has understood the basic principle of the > N-Machine with its reaction (drag) free principle to generate > electricity. > This is a new form of Lenz law violation ! > > Read it ! > > For english translation use: > http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/ > > Regards, Stefan. > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 22:39:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA21379; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:39:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:39:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990613205910.229f0eb0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:59:10 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: More VACE tests In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990613120939.00e67df0@inforamp.net> References: <3.0.6.16.19990613065321.2387c2fc@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990612171213.01190320@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990611223731.23b7f1ce@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990611192531.00b37b80@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990610202243.22675ea6@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990610170519.01065a50@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990609223817.2c5f8a48@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990609180424.00fb2100@inforamp.net> <3.0.6.16.19990608212228.239faf5c@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990608165117.009ae4c0@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"IFlVg1.0.yD5.wL9Pt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10843 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Colin and all, At 12:09 PM 6/13/99 -0700, you wrote: >>It would be helpful to somehow independently verify the enclosed field. I >>can think of: >>3) Repole with a sense wire, exactly as was done with the computer core >>memories. >> >>Does anyone have any others? > >Re #3 above, [taking it further,] why not a small flat high impedance coil >layed flat against the toriod's flat face. Any sine wave applied to that >coil should see a flattening of the scope signal from an induction-- a >directional bias? (Does that make any sense?) Yes, the magnetic fluxes would have to be coupled. I think Tesla tried to make a magnetic rectifier on this principle. Also, magnetic amplifiers use a control winding to saturate a magnetic path and change the impedance of another winding. > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 13 22:42:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA22525; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:42:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:42:13 -0700 Message-ID: <007901beb630$e5db6a00$807988d1@monorailpc> From: "code" To: Subject: Re: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage ! Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:41:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"fXmV91.0.oV5.qO9Pt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10844 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan, I am looking at the site you have graciously provided information on but am having no luck getting that information translated from German to English, using the AltaVista program. Do you have a translated version you can send to me or any suggestions? Addtionally, I am very interested in constructing one of these devices, am encouraged by the information you have provided and thank you for your willingness to share. Best regards, Alan -----Original Message----- From: Stefan Hartmann To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: Newman-L Mailing List ; ddameron@earthlink.net ; atg0317 ; atglab ; JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sunday, June 13, 1999 11:26 PM Subject: Re: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage ! >http://members.teleweb.at/preiss/update1.html >For easier >understanding I am just explaining the main principle here: > >A conductor is glued onto a permanent magnet, >so the real length of the conductor, that sees >the induction voltage, can NOT move, >so NO DRAG FORCE can be delivered onto it, cause >it is glued onto the permanent magnet ! >the only part of the conductor which will >move is the connector wire, but at 90 degrees, >so there the Lorentz drag force is pretty small... > >Now the trick is to make the area delta A big >(long conductor) and you get a bigger induction voltage >by using the formular: > >Vind.=dPhi/dt= B x dA/dt > >As the magnet is NOT moved, but just the area >delta A is varied you can see, that there is >not much Lenz law drag onto the conductor >who generates the induction voltage, >even if you draw a bigger current from it, >cause it is glued onto the permanent magnet ! > >Also it generates AC power which can be easily transformed >to other voltage levels. > >I also have a few ideas how to scale up a >normal rotating N-machine. now as the basic >principle is clear to me, >so one could get a higher voltage output from >a rotating type N-machine. > > >Regards, Stefan. > >Stefan Hartmann schrieb: >> >> http://members.teleweb.at/preiss/update1.html >> >> Hi All, >> >> read this. >> >> This is the update how to construct a new type >> of N-machine, which is able to scale up the output power >> pretty easy and also get much higher voltages out. >> >> Mr. Preiss really has understood the basic principle of the >> N-Machine with its reaction (drag) free principle to generate >> electricity. >> This is a new form of Lenz law violation ! >> >> Read it ! >> >> For english translation use: >> http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/ >> >> Regards, Stefan. >> > > >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, >Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 00:13:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA05413; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 00:11:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 00:11:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:46:46 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? In-Reply-To: <376410AB.8D8BD283@servtech.com> References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"RMu8r3.0.UK1.riAPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10845 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob and all, At 04:12 PM 6/13/99 -0400, you wrote: >> >> If I understand correctly you are saying each individual VACE has a torque at >> each position of its 360 degrees and it does not sum to zero. If this is >> true and they are all held in place by some frame so the individual VACEs do >> not change their relative orientations, then the whole frame, including VACEs >> should rotate. That is, the FRAME sees a net rotational moment on it and >> will rotate. >> >> Ken Keasy@aol.com > >That's what I am trying to figure out. >Either >1) I did the calculations wrong, and it doesn't work, I think your 3 points calculations are OK, but more points need to be taken. In the case of the I(4), the angular force was -.6632. If the rotating VACE is continued rotated so it is 90 deg. from bottom, the angular factor is now +.5, an opposite force, with a larger lever arm and net torque. Please check me: alpha = beta= 45 deg, and epsilon = 0 deg. (I assumed a zero net radial position of the fixed VACE) I need a trig. computer for many more angular points. >2) Or the calculations are correct, but there is another effect I haven't > taken into consideration, so it doesn't work >3) Or its physicaly imposible to construct, so it doesn't mater if > it really works or not I see no major problem, it could be tried with 2 good VACE's, one on a wheel. >4) Or it really works and we should be able to construct it. > >I am hoping someone else will check the calculations so we can rule that one out. > Can you calculate the force every 30 deg.? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 01:09:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA15610; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:08:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:08:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3764B89A.C3A2FCBF@harti.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:08:58 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, code , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage ! References: <007901beb630$e5db6a00$807988d1@monorailpc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XhBHA3.0.pp3.oXBPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10846 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: code schrieb: > > Hi Stefan, > > I am looking at the site you have graciously provided information on but am > having no luck getting that information translated from German to English, > using the AltaVista program. Do you have a translated version you can send > to me or any suggestions? > Addtionally, I am very interested in constructing one of these devices, am > encouraged by the information you have provided and thank you for your > willingness to share. > > Best regards, > > Alan Sorry not yet , you must translate it step by step by cutting and pasting the Web-page text into the box on the page at: http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stefan Hartmann > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Cc: Newman-L Mailing List ; ddameron@earthlink.net > ; atg0317 ; atglab > ; JNaudin509@aol.com > Date: Sunday, June 13, 1999 11:26 PM > Subject: Re: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage ! > > >http://members.teleweb.at/preiss/update1.html > >For easier > >understanding I am just explaining the main principle here: > > > >A conductor is glued onto a permanent magnet, > >so the real length of the conductor, that sees > >the induction voltage, can NOT move, > >so NO DRAG FORCE can be delivered onto it, cause > >it is glued onto the permanent magnet ! > >the only part of the conductor which will > >move is the connector wire, but at 90 degrees, > >so there the Lorentz drag force is pretty small... > > > >Now the trick is to make the area delta A big > >(long conductor) and you get a bigger induction voltage > >by using the formular: > > > >Vind.=dPhi/dt= B x dA/dt > > > >As the magnet is NOT moved, but just the area > >delta A is varied you can see, that there is > >not much Lenz law drag onto the conductor > >who generates the induction voltage, > >even if you draw a bigger current from it, > >cause it is glued onto the permanent magnet ! > > > >Also it generates AC power which can be easily transformed > >to other voltage levels. > > > >I also have a few ideas how to scale up a > >normal rotating N-machine. now as the basic > >principle is clear to me, > >so one could get a higher voltage output from > >a rotating type N-machine. > > > > > >Regards, Stefan. > > > >Stefan Hartmann schrieb: > >> > >> http://members.teleweb.at/preiss/update1.html > >> > >> Hi All, > >> > >> read this. > >> > >> This is the update how to construct a new type > >> of N-machine, which is able to scale up the output power > >> pretty easy and also get much higher voltages out. > >> > >> Mr. Preiss really has understood the basic principle of the > >> N-Machine with its reaction (drag) free principle to generate > >> electricity. > >> This is a new form of Lenz law violation ! > >> > >> Read it ! > >> > >> For english translation use: > >> http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/ > >> > >> Regards, Stefan. > >> > > > > > >-- > >Hartmann Multimedia Service, > >Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > >Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > >email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > > > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 01:15:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA16400; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:10:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:10:25 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Keelynet Archives Message-Id: <929347792.10605.39@excite.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:09:52 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"PZ43v.0.904.nZBPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10847 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Been trying to access Keelynet archives for a while now, it seems to be working now, after a transition to new provider. Dont know why the archive access seems to have been down for a while. I stopped receiving messages from the list about a month ago because of the tesla4@excite.com faux address. Hey its great to be able to access this info again anyways. The address is http://www.keelynet.com/interact/Archives.html Anyone considering joining the list must of course abide by the posted guidelines and realize that unlike freenrg-l list which is public, the keelynet list is private and hosted by Jerry Decker who makes frequent contributions to the freenrg-l list, not to mention the whole free energy field. I was very impressed with the wealth of web addresses that Jerry personally has submitted as interesting info and in fact he had mentioned my own meager message board before I got his permission to join. Anyone not aquainted with Keely the inventor and the great amount of information that Jerry has placed online would be advised to check it out. HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 01:19:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA17750; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000a01beb63d$d464f900$9bc41bca@rae> From: "Stuart Rae" To: "FREENRG-L" References: <006c01beb62b$c5955620$807988d1@monorailpc> Subject: Re: Sensitivity of Multi Turn Recieving Loops Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:12:53 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEB6A2.49101320" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"Y9gfX2.0.EL4.sgBPt"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10848 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEB6A2.49101320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi there Alan, > > Wow! Something in this sure seems to correlate to the Newman devices. = Is > it possible that the large coils Newman used in his early devices were = just > giant receiving coils for the aether-related frequencies and that the = sparks > associated with his commutator somehow allowed for translation of = those > received frequencies into usable energy? > Yes I have to agree with that thought Alan. This is in fact the literal truth. But few today seem to appreciate it, or have even half a brain to see it. An awful lot of people on this list will argue vehemently to the = contrary, but it is an historical and experimentally confirmed fact for anyone who = has the will to research the matter diligently. This matter has been also clearly and experimentally confirmed in the = work of many others from Tesla to Dollard, (and others who are lesser known = in contemporary scientific circles.) As you note, the matter of the "spark" is also immensely important. In generally accepted switching terms, conventional thinking regards the = matter simply as the interruption of an electrical current, ...i.e. in terms of charge carriers. But this of course is patently not true. A vague approximation of the reality is found in some of the comments and work to Thomas Beardon, but this only covers half of the truth. Nicolla Tesla's comments were far closer to the reality, and a careful study of his comments made earlier = in the century is extremely worth while. Good hunting........ :-), Stuart -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Stuart. Rae, Blenheim, =20 New Zealand. srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEB6A2.49101320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi there Alan,

>
> Wow!  = Something in=20 this sure seems to correlate to the Newman devices.  Is
> it = possible=20 that the large coils Newman used in his early devices were just
> = giant=20 receiving coils for the aether-related frequencies and that the = sparks
>=20 associated with his commutator somehow allowed for translation of = those
>=20 received frequencies into usable energy?
>

Yes I have to = agree=20 with that thought Alan.  This is in fact the
literal = truth. =20 But few today seem to appreciate it, or have even half a
brain to see = it.

An awful lot of people on this list will argue = vehemently  to=20 the contrary,
but it is an historical and experimentally confirmed = fact for=20 anyone who has
the will to research the matter = diligently.

This matter=20 has been also clearly and experimentally confirmed in the work
of = many others=20 from Tesla to Dollard,  (and others who are lesser known = in
contemporary=20 scientific circles.)

As you note, the matter of the "spark" is = also=20 immensely important.  In
generally accepted switching terms,=20 conventional thinking regards the matter
simply as the interruption = of an=20 electrical current, ...i.e. in terms of
charge carriers.

But = this of=20 course is patently not true.  A vague approximation of = the
reality is=20 found in some of the comments and work to Thomas Beardon, but
this = only=20 covers half of the truth. Nicolla Tesla's comments were = far
closer to=20 the reality, and a careful study of his comments made earlier in = the
century=20 is extremely worth while.

Good hunting........ = :-),

Stuart

Stuart. Rae,
Blenheim,     
New=20 Zealand.
srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEB6A2.49101320-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 01:40:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA24988; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:39:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:39:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3764BFE0.CBD07115@harti.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:40:00 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: code , Newman-L Mailing List , Preiss Subject: Re: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage ! X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <007901beb630$e5db6a00$807988d1@monorailpc> <3764B89A.C3A2FCBF@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MmVvs3.0.L66.j-BPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10849 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I have been putting a translated English version now onto my server. It is at: http://www.overunity.com/nmachine It is just a ruff translation via an automatic translation program... Stefan Hartmann schrieb: > > code schrieb: > > > > Hi Stefan, > > > > I am looking at the site you have graciously provided information on but am > > having no luck getting that information translated from German to English, > > using the AltaVista program. Do you have a translated version you can send > > to me or any suggestions? > > Addtionally, I am very interested in constructing one of these devices, am > > encouraged by the information you have provided and thank you for your > > willingness to share. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Alan > > > > >http://members.teleweb.at/preiss/update1.html > > >For easier > > >understanding I am just explaining the main principle here: > > > > > >A conductor is glued onto a permanent magnet, > > >so the real length of the conductor, that sees > > >the induction voltage, can NOT move, > > >so NO DRAG FORCE can be delivered onto it, cause > > >it is glued onto the permanent magnet ! > > >the only part of the conductor which will > > >move is the connector wire, but at 90 degrees, > > >so there the Lorentz drag force is pretty small... > > > > > >Now the trick is to make the area delta A big > > >(long conductor) and you get a bigger induction voltage > > >by using the formular: > > > > > >Vind.=dPhi/dt= B x dA/dt > > > > > >As the magnet is NOT moved, but just the area > > >delta A is varied you can see, that there is > > >not much Lenz law drag onto the conductor > > >who generates the induction voltage, > > >even if you draw a bigger current from it, > > >cause it is glued onto the permanent magnet ! > > > > > >Also it generates AC power which can be easily transformed > > >to other voltage levels. > > > > > >I also have a few ideas how to scale up a > > >normal rotating N-machine. now as the basic > > >principle is clear to me, > > >so one could get a higher voltage output from > > >a rotating type N-machine. > > > > > > > > >Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 03:07:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA11140; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:05:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:05:43 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage ! Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:05:09 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3766d39d.355979933@mail-hub> References: <007901beb630$e5db6a00$807988d1@monorailpc> <3764B89A.C3A2FCBF@harti.com> <3764BFE0.CBD07115@harti.com> In-Reply-To: <3764BFE0.CBD07115@harti.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id DAA11119 Resent-Message-ID: <"i9CMQ1.0.zj2.tFDPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10850 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:40:00 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote: >Hi, > >I have been putting a translated English version now onto my server. > >It is at: > >http://www.overunity.com/nmachine > >It is just a ruff translation via an automatic translation program... [snip] You can also get an immediate translation of the whole document done at: http://www.systransoft.com/ Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 03:29:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA14887; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:28:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:28:31 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Sensitivity of Multi Turn Recieving Loops Message-Id: <929356099.3460.324@excite.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:28:19 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"30HZ02.0.We3.EbDPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10851 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:12:53 +1200, Stuart Rae wrote: > Hi there Alan, > > > > > Wow! Something in this sure seems to correlate to the Newman devices. = > Is > > it possible that the large coils Newman used in his early devices were = > just > > giant receiving coils for the aether-related frequencies and that the = > sparks > > associated with his commutator somehow allowed for translation of = > those > > received frequencies into usable energy? > > > > Yes I have to agree with that thought Alan. This is in fact the > literal truth. But few today seem to appreciate it, or have even half a > brain to see it. > Good point Stuart Rae. An example of this is magnifier system that has been built over and over by different people touting Teslas great experiments at Colorado Springs. Yet how many of them use his advise contained in the Colorado Spring Notes which was dated September 19, 1899. In this example 6 different methods are noted in which the last two seem to be ignored because no actual physical connection between the extra coil and the secondary are made. Tesla noted example 4 to be the best effect and this appears to be simply his way of noting that that best discharges were made by this method. To someone simply wishing to make a big spark this may be true. However methods 5 and 6 use INDEPENDENT GROUNDINGS on the secondary and the extra coil. The ground takes the place of the wire connection. Indeed in the mind of Tesla who wanted to manufacture ground fluctuations to send energy through the earth he did not omit these last methods at all but made these comments: The plan in figure 4 being found best, the question is what is the best length to give to the wires. With each secondary and extra coil having one quarter of a wave length the action on the condenser is not most intense. I discovered this for myself by building two coils of entirely different geometries but equal lengths of wire both at the quarter wavelength. However the intiating impulse would not excite the other coil. Tesla continues: With the extra coil 1/2 wavelength and the secondary 1/4 they both cooperate on the condenser producing on the ball a much greater pressure. This appears to be the best relation in figure 4.(This is the typical design used to produce higher voltages on the extra coil by direct electrical connection to the secondary.) In the last two methods ( where the secondary and extra coil were independently grounded with no direct electrical connection) Tesla writes: It is found best to make extra coil 3/4 wavelength and the secondary 1/4 for obvious reasons. When I first read this I was somewhat mystified as to why this should be obvious! It wasnt obvious to me! However a little thinking did make it obvious. Teslas secondary encompassed a large diameter, and the extra coil existed inside the SPACE of the secondary. The last two methods relied more on the induced currents from induction than from a direct electrical connection. If the big coil is producing a N what is the effect produced on the smaller? An S is that agreement and in order for this to do this is like a third harmonic, or in the case of wire length this would be 3 times the length of wire to produce agreement or instead of 1/4 the second resonator must be 3/4 wavelength. So today when a magnifier system is built and demonstrated the magnifier or extra coil hardly ever uses the original design because us stupid humans find that we can surpass the original intention of creating two inductions in interaction by simply making an electrical contact in the form of a wire connection between the two systems to achieve the same effect. Of course I could be totally wrong also, but how many magnifier designs are made according to the geometry that Tesla used? None that I am aware of. All cheap imitations just to make a spark because of this convenvience of using a direct electrical connection instead of using the spatial induction aspects. However these latter methods noted by tesla are not forgotten in history because he had the good common sense to write them down for perusal by others. Richard Hull has wrote a commentary on the Colorado Spring Notes which can be like deciphering a riddle: I hope to read his commentary soon. It may be that these comments I have made are without basis; but nothing ventured=nothing gained HDN _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 04:37:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA26486; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:34:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:34:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3764ECF9.F91D0AB9@servtech.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:52:26 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ri5kP1.0.hT6.uYEPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10852 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave Dameron wrote: > > >1) I did the calculations wrong, and it doesn't work, > > I think your 3 points calculations are OK, but more points need to be taken. > In the case of the I(4), the angular force was -.6632. If the rotating VACE > is continued rotated so it is 90 deg. from bottom, the angular factor is > now +.5, > an opposite force, with a larger lever arm and net torque. Please check me: > alpha = beta= 45 deg, and epsilon = 0 deg. (I assumed a zero net radial > position of the fixed VACE) > I need a trig. computer for many more angular points. > I wrote a computer program to calculate the force at every degree increaments. The circle with radial lines shows the force magnitudes for every 10 degree interval. I am not sure the case you mention is actually possible with the "external" VACE. That is, you have the torus of VACEs and a single VACE at a position outside the torus. For a VACE as part of the the torus at 90 degrees, say on the y-axis, you need the external VACE, which is on the x-axis, far enough away so that alpha = beta < 35.5 degrees. I'll look again at the calculations/program... > Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 08:53:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA00818; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:53:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:53:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990614070802.2257d140@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:08:02 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? In-Reply-To: <3764ECF9.F91D0AB9@servtech.com> References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HXpJj2.0.hC.hLIPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10853 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob and all, At 07:52 AM 6/14/99 -0400, you wrote: > >I am not sure the case you mention is actually possible with the "external" >VACE. That is, you have the torus of VACEs and a single VACE at a position >outside the torus. > >For a VACE as part of the the torus at 90 degrees, say on the y-axis, you >need the external VACE, which is on the x-axis, far enough away so that >alpha = beta < 35.5 degrees. > Yes, this crossed my mind, but I haven't done any force calculations yet. Wouldn't it be weird if it would only work if the stationary VACE was far enough away so the angle with that VACE was less than ~35.3 degrees = inverse cosine(sqrt(2)/3) and would stop if it was closer. No, this doesn't seem intuitive to me, but... >I'll look again at the calculations/program... > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 08:53:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA00932; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:53:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:53:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990614072650.26572eb6@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:26:50 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: magnetic ring FE motor?? In-Reply-To: <929334736.10803.809@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UjoG91.0.CE.sLIPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10855 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Harvey and all, At 09:32 PM 6/13/99 PDT, you wrote: >In the middle 80's I had an idea that recently returned with modifications. >I think I submitted this once before under Norris Magnetic Ring Motor on >2/99. > At that time several people noted that it could not work as advertised >in that conception as the working principle the ring cannot rotate without >without some kind of bearing or physical connection to prevent the ring from >hugging the field coils at some point. >I can fully agree with this. This is why we have a discussion list so that >if an idea is outlandish or even impossible we can throw it out to others to >gauge their opinions. > >Imagine a copper magnetic motor that has a ring armature that rotates freely >in space with no connections >Imagine a hula hoop or plastic toroidal magnet container. You have many >aluminum and neodmium discs that you shove into the hoop in alternating >sequence until the ring is completed. Have you seen drawings of the Gramme ring motor? It was popular in the 19'th century and is sort of like your ring motor, but the coils and magnets switched. The toroid windings rotate, and the magnets inside are fixed. Actually the core magnetic material is soft iron and does rotate, but it is magnetized by an external magnet, so the its poles are fixed in space. The poles need to be NSSN, not NSNS like with a VACE. Think of pushing a magnet through a coil and how you would do it continuously, and you come up with the Gramme geometry. It also raised the question of induced EMF's, change of flux vs. wires cutting flux. Do the wires on the inside of the toroid, which don't "see" any flux, contribute to the operation (as a generator). -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 08:53:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA00854; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:53:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:53:20 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990614071449.2257bd18@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:14:49 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: "Simple" magnetics question In-Reply-To: <4826b92.24956fe9@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"t_ryg1.0.BD.lLIPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10854 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken and all, At 04:34 PM 6/13/99 EDT, you wrote: > I tried this, if I understand the problem correctly. > I used 3 magnets, all that I could hold and twist with my hands, anything > special about ? >> >Nothing special about 7. I was just hoping to use a large enough number to >reduce end effects. > >< > \\ \\ \\ > N\\S N\\S N\\S > \\ \\ \\ > The center magnet had a CW torque to 90 deg. from the outer 2.>> > >If that is true then one might think that if you used a large number of >magnets all rotated to 45 degrees that they would all experience a torque, >except for possibly the ones very near the end. I think the torque alternates on every other magnet, so that they may balance out.. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 09:07:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08255; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:06:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:06:36 -0700 Message-ID: <376524C8.43E141F2@teleweb.at> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:50:32 +0200 From: Preiss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [de]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: N-Effect - Message by the author Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"V7e-a1.0.t02.BYIPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10856 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi everybody ! I'm the author of "The final understanding of the real N-Effect" and of the first update "A new linear enhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage" provided here by Stefan Hartmann - Many thanks to you Stefan. I wrote this docs in german language and I want to give thanks to all the people who translate this docs to english. So I received today a mail from Stefan Hartmann, that the first english version of the update is ready for viewing ( http://www.overunity.com/nmachine ). I will work on the correct translation an will put this on my server ( http://members.teleweb.at/preiss ). Also the second update will by ready on the next weekend (In this update I show some little more things about the nonreaction, and I will guide you from one spoke to two and three spokes and finaly to the disc of DePalma. Also I present the ultimate math. formular of the induced voltage) - sorry but all in german language - I have great time problems with my page updates - because I don't have seen this high response at the beginning. I'm online since 9 days. So please if you have a translated version of my docs please mail it to me ( preiss@teleweb.at ). I will check it for correct translation and put it on my server. I will only protect the right meaning of my words written in this docs for variation of translation programms. Many thanks to all interested people Thomas Preiss From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 11:40:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA10779; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:39:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:39:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:13:18 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? In-Reply-To: <3764ECF9.F91D0AB9@servtech.com> References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"pupdv1.0.Ke2.fnKPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10857 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Bob again, At 07:52 AM 6/14/99 -0400, you wrote: > >I am not sure the case you mention is actually possible with the "external" >VACE. That is, you have the torus of VACEs and a single VACE at a position >outside the torus. > >For a VACE as part of the the torus at 90 degrees, say on the y-axis, you >need the external VACE, which is on the x-axis, far enough away so that >alpha = beta < 35.5 degrees. > I did some more calculations with the fixed VACE 1 radius away from the rotating VACE. The maximum alpha for this case is about 31 deg. Beta (=epsilon-alpha) will vary over the whole 360 deg, as will the angle epsilon= 90 deg -rotation angle. I get the following, for angle of the rotating VACE (0 deg = bottom) Angle in degrees, Force = angular factor only. Angle Force 0 0 10 0.66 20 1.05 30 1.22 40 1.17 50 1.03 60 0.84 70 0.68 max lever arm about here 80 0.55 90 0.42 100 0.30 110 0.14 120 -0.02 130 -0.12 140 -0.17 150 -0.20 160 -0.12 170 -0.09 180 0 It is unknown what the net torque is, as the lever arms need to be factored in (as well as the unknown radial factors), It does look like there might be a net amount. I also don't think the other side of the circle is symmetric either. (alpha is now negative, but doesn't change the sign of cos(alpha), but on the other side, 190 to 360 deg., cos(epsilon) has the opposite sign.) Are you about to build a test model? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 20:14:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA27605; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:13:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:13:36 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:06:43 EDT Subject: Re: "Simple" magnetics question To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Resent-Message-ID: <"VBi7t.0.8l6.VJSPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10858 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/14/99 9:00:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: << >< > \\ \\ \\ > N\\S N\\S N\\S > \\ \\ \\ > The center magnet had a CW torque to 90 deg. from the outer 2.>> > >If that is true then one might think that if you used a large number of >magnets all rotated to 45 degrees that they would all experience a torque, >except for possibly the ones very near the end. I think the torque alternates on every other magnet, so that they may balance out.. -Dave >> Well, except that ideally all the magnets, their spacing and angles are all identical. How does mother nature decide which ones to make have a CW torque and which ones to have a CCW torque? And if there are an odd number there still would be a net torque, it would seem. Since overunity devices are so difficult to design my guess is that somehow the torque on each magnet --at least in a circle -- turns out to be zero. If I ever get my computer program working well I will do a quick calculation to see if a net torque looks reasonable. It should be similiar to the VACE calculations some are doing now. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 20:52:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA10668; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990614234526.007c5720@mail.netrover.com> X-Sender: trebla@mail.netrover.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:45:26 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Marcus Cole Subject: A puzzle about electro-magnetics device In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1lISi.0.Hc2.5pSPt"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10859 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all I have been thinking lately about a file i read long ago on a bbs about magnetic fields and their effects. There was one file mentioning something that goes like this : "We made 2 conical electro-magnets, which we setup face to face, (sharp point facing each other) One was fixed and the other was adjustable (distance). When we started the device, we then use iron dust to make the magnetic fields visible. As we tweaked with the machine, the magnetic fields formed a sphere surrounded by a thorus. Upon reaching this form, every persons in our block started feeling nauseated, some more affected than others. What is stranger still, is that a thunderstorm developped right above our block within the next 1/2hour, where there was no cloud in the sky before. As the storm grew in strenght we were at the end of our limits and disconnected the device. Peole started getting better and the storm subsided in a matter of minutes." Now, i can't remember who the 'we' was, nor the exact location of the experiments took place, but i do remember it was somewhere in the US. Is it possible that such a thing can alter the wheater patern this fast and so forcefully? Why were those people in the guys block affected by the magnetic output? As anyone heard of such a thing? Any info/comments/flame? are welcome as this won't let me think of much else lately. P.S. it was rigged to used the wall outlet to power the electro-magnets. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 21:10:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA14287; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009301beb6e4$c06e37c0$9ca645d1@nimmachine> From: "Psy-Kosh" To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990614234526.007c5720@mail.netrover.com> Subject: Re: A puzzle about electro-magnetics device Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:08:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"c01b_2.0.zU3.97TPt"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10860 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Were they pumping AC or DC into the coils, and how were the polls orienterd with respect to each other? (like to like, or not) Psy-Kosh DC2.!(scientist)/?(?(H)) r++/r+++! Gm a- s++ u-.5 (Carestaff member) "The scientist who would rather refute than comprehend demonstrates he has chosen the wrong calling." -The Forever Machine ------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 23:08:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA25173; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:07:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:07:58 -0700 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 02:07:00 EDT Subject: 10-kg battery to supply up to 150 horsepower To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"uO9n53.0.E96.zsUPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10861 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: << You guys know the book that called: Earthquake Machine by Nicola Telsa Some where I would say middle of that book: The writer talks about the book that was written 30 or 40 yrs a go. How X-ray tube waves was capable of producing out of ordinary water very large amount of Hydrogen and the book was written all about that. Right after book was published, banned by some so called Government Agents and called as Top Secret information and books was destroyed. (In my opinion) So, people can remain dependable on fossil fuel conspiracy, planned and setup by money changers in the land, that not only control people but as well as the media and the government. So, unless some major cosmic spanking by God can turn this earth upside down, power and money thirsty gods will continue to milk and control common people on this earth. But here below; There is another company that skinned the cat differently. MKSB.>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Executive Summary Overview BlackLight Power, Inc., incorporated in the state of Delaware, has discovered and filed patents on a class of novel chemical compounds that are likely to be of extraordinary commercial value. The company believes that the chemical process it has developed (the "BlackLight Process") causes the electrons of hydrogen atoms to drop to lower energy states (or orbits around each atom's nucleus) than conventionally thought possible. The lower-energy atomic hydrogen product ("hydrino") produced by the BlackLight Process reacts with an electron to form a hydride ion which further reacts with elements other than hydrogen (e.g. K, Ti, etc.) to form novel compounds which are the proprietary property of the company. The company has contracted with 20 independent labs to perform 25 types of analytical experiments to confirm the existence and properties of a number of these novel compounds. The analytical experimental results indicate that the properties of hydrino hydride compounds (HHCs) have unique characteristics due to their extraordinary binding energy (the energy required to remove an electron that determines chemical reactivity and properties). This new class of matter may become a base material for the manufacture of many commercially viable chemical compounds. The compounds already identified may impact a variety of industries including the chemical, computer, defense, energy, battery, propellant, surface coatings, electronics, telecommunications, aerospace, and automotive. For example, the company has identified a compound with ionization properties that would enable a 10-kg battery to supply up to 150 horsepower and run 1000 miles before recharging. A battery of this type would allow automobile manufacturers to offer electric vehicles with superior performance to conventional automobiles with zero emissions. The impact of such vehicles on the automobile industry would be transformational. A by-product of manufacturing these compounds is heat, which can be easily converted to electric power. This by-product represents a diversified source of income, since electric power is a well-defined commodity that can be sold to electric utility companies at about 3 cents/kWh. The potential value of some of these products is discussed below. http://www.blacklightpower.co m/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 14 23:48:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA01869; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:47:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:47:20 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990614222018.325fd176@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:20:18 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: "Simple" magnetics question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0-9En3.0.rS.tRVPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10862 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken and all, At 11:06 PM 6/14/99 EDT, you wrote: > > > > \\ \\ \\ > > N\\S N\\S N\\S > > \\ \\ \\ > > The center magnet had a CW torque to 90 deg. from the outer 2.>> > > > >If that is true then one might think that if you used a large number of > >magnets all rotated to 45 degrees that they would all experience a torque, > >except for possibly the ones very near the end. > > I think the torque alternates on every other magnet, so that they may > balance out.. > -Dave > >> > Well, except that ideally all the magnets, their spacing and angles >are all identical. How does mother nature decide which ones to make have a >CW torque and which ones to have a CCW torque? And if there are an odd >number there still would be a net torque, it would seem. Well that does sounds right, so maybe an end effect or one magnet is held more firmly than another, and once some move, the arrangement is unstable and the magnets rearrange at 90 deg, to each other, ignoring end effects. In my simple test, I probably held an end magnet more firmly than the center one. I have assumed the pivot point of each magnet is at its center, and would be interested in any simulation results you produce. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 00:07:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA04763; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:03:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:03:53 -0700 Message-ID: <3765FA83.1CEFF287@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 02:02:27 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 10-kg battery to supply up to 150 horsepower References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aw7Av2.0.KA1.OhVPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10863 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! ...Reality Check... MKSBoysal@aol.com wrote; > You guys know the book that called: Earthquake Machine by Nicola > Telsa Some where I would say middle of that book: The writer talks > about the book that was written 30 or 40 yrs a go. How X-ray tube > waves was capable of producing out of ordinary water very large > amount of Hydrogen and the book was written all about that. > Right after book was published, banned by some so called Government > Agents and called as Top Secret information and books was destroyed. The title implies it, but in fact Tesla didn't write the book, the Earthquake Machine, that was written by Walter Baumgartner and Dale Pond, based on their attempted duplication of the unit. The book was not banned by the government or anyone else and is still available at; http://www.dxshop.com/_shop/shop-indy.mhtml?shop=spectrum&cart=929430035-15705.db&tstamp=929430035&category=20&code=B0010992 Dales' website is http://www.svpvril.com Similar statements have been made about Dr. Gavraud and his infrasonics research at 7cps yet none of the claims of suppression are true. An excellent description of this and other fascinating work is in 'Lost Science' by Gerry Vassilatos available from Borderlands at; http://borderlands.com/newstuff/Newbooks/newbook.htm -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 03:41:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA15212; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 03:40:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 03:40:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3766268A.5C0673E1@harti.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:10:18 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, eduard.sawicki@partner.bmw.de, Dave Dameron , Preiss Subject: Re: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage! X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <007901beb630$e5db6a00$807988d1@monorailpc> <3764B89A.C3A2FCBF@harti.com> <3.0.6.16.19990615000636.2bf7afbc@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_ahdv2.0.bj3.NsYPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10865 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave Dameron schrieb: > > Hi Stefan and all, > Thank you for this article. > I think the voltage generated by this machine will be very small. The area > of the flux is changed only at the top and bottom of the magnets between > the edges and the green pulleys where the wire turns to leave the magnet area. Hmm, yes, but the yellow area is changed and that is the main effect. If you make the glued wire very long you will get a big area delta A, which is changed ! > >> > >Vind.=dPhi/dt= B x dA/dt > >> > > > >> > >As the magnet is NOT moved, but just the area > >> > >delta A is varied you can see, that there is > The yellow center area of the magnet is always on the left of the wires, > so this area isn not changed. Yes, but this whole yellow area is changed in its surface ! Imagine using a glued conductor of 1 Meter. If you then change the connector wires also for delta s= 1 Meter, you have an aera change of 100 cm x 100 cm. You would need pretty huge permanent magnets ... but this is just an engeneering problem which could be solved... Now if you use a plastic foil based multiple traces amorphous copper conductor, like these which are used in ink jet printers today for the printer head, you could build a real coil by connecting these multiple traces in series. This would increase the output voltage ! The real question is, will it be possible to violate the Lenz law and will there be no drag back effect on the unit, when load current is applied to this wire loop ? Regards, Stefan. > -Dave -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 03:41:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA12149; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:33:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:33:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990615000636.2bf7afbc@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:06:36 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage ! In-Reply-To: <3764BFE0.CBD07115@harti.com> References: <007901beb630$e5db6a00$807988d1@monorailpc> <3764B89A.C3A2FCBF@harti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UkbpY2.0.fz2.g_WPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10864 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan and all, Thank you for this article. I think the voltage generated by this machine will be very small. The area of the flux is changed only at the top and bottom of the magnets between the edges and the green pulleys where the wire turns to leave the magnet area. At 10:40 AM 6/14/99 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, > >I have been putting a translated English version now onto my server. > >It is at: > >http://www.overunity.com/nmachine > >It is just a ruff translation via an automatic translation program... > > >> > >Vind.=dPhi/dt= B x dA/dt >> > > >> > >As the magnet is NOT moved, but just the area >> > >delta A is varied you can see, that there is >> > >not much Lenz law drag onto the conductor >> > >who generates the induction voltage, >> > >even if you draw a bigger current from it, >> > >cause it is glued onto the permanent magnet ! The yellow center area of the magnet is always on the left of the wires, so this area isn not changed. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 09:11:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA11487; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:08:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:08:42 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <2eb9c94d.2497d430@aol.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:07:12 EDT Subject: Re: A puzzle about electro-magnetics device To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Resent-Message-ID: <"Z3zxN.0.Op2.9gdPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10866 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/14/99 9:02:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, trebla@netrover.com writes: << "We made 2 conical electro-magnets, which we setup face to face, (sharp point facing each other) One was fixed and the other was adjustable (distance). When we started the device, we then use iron dust to make the magnetic fields visible. As we tweaked with the machine, the magnetic fields formed a sphere surrounded by a thorus. Upon reaching this form, every persons in our block started feeling nauseated, some more affected than others. What is stranger still, is that a thunderstorm developped right above our block within the next 1/2hour, where there was no cloud in the sky before. As the storm grew in strenght we were at the end of our limits and disconnected the device. Peole started getting better and the storm subsided in a matter of minutes." Now, i can't remember who the 'we' was, nor the exact location of the experiments took place, but i do remember it was somewhere in the US. Is it possible that such a thing can alter the wheater patern this fast and so forcefully? Why were those people in the guys block affected by the magnetic output? As anyone heard of such a thing? Any info/comments/flame? are welcome as this won't let me think of much else lately. P.S. it was rigged to used the wall outlet to power the electro-magnets. >> Well, I think standard theory would say there is nothing very special about this configuration -- the fields can be calculated, etc. etc. At high frequencies there may be interesting radiation patterns, but at 60 hz there should not be anything very interesting going on. Why these electromagnets would effect people or the weather would clearly have to fall into the "not expected by standard theory" category. ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 09:28:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA18740; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:27:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:27:25 -0700 Message-ID: <37667AF2.B30021D8@teleweb.at> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:10:26 +0200 From: Preiss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [de]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage! References: <007901beb630$e5db6a00$807988d1@monorailpc> <3764B89A.C3A2FCBF@harti.com> <3.0.6.16.19990615000636.2bf7afbc@earthlink.net> <3766268A.5C0673E1@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-WdYB2.0.ja4.ixdPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10867 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave, Stefan and all ! This is the author and the developer of the LN-Machine. All statements written by Stefan are absolute correct. It is not important whether the yellow area is on the left of or on the right of the conducting circuit. The yellow area shows only the modification of the conducters loop area. You are absolute right when you wrote, that the yellow area is always on the left. But this is in the special case of my drawings. But what happens when you move the two wire reels to the left and not to the right as shown in my drawings. You increase the area of the conducting loop area (modification of area means induction of electrical voltage - induction law). When you move it from the left to the right you decrease the area an the same effect appears (induction of the voltage - but in this case the voltage is negative to the first case). With this right to left and left to right moves you generate the voltage (it is a sine-voltage). Also right is that the area of the flux is changed at the top and bottom of the magnets between the edges and the green pulleys where the wire turns to leave the magnet area. This is good, but I hope you mean it so like I. Where ist the area? The area, is between three points. First point: The pulley Second point: the point where the wire leaves the magnet Third point: please see below | |__________________ | | |------------------ | third point It is right that this modification also generates a voltage (I wrote about the Lorentzforce in this part of the machine), but the main voltage comes from the big conductors loop area because it is changed in the same way and under the same law of induction. If in this big area no voltage will be inducted, we all have to explain the induction law u=delta phi/delta t in a new way. Best regards Thomas Stefan Hartmann schrieb: > > Dave Dameron schrieb: > > > > Hi Stefan and all, > > Thank you for this article. > > I think the voltage generated by this machine will be very small. The area > > of the flux is changed only at the top and bottom of the magnets between > > the edges and the green pulleys where the wire turns to leave the magnet area. > > Hmm, yes, but the yellow area is changed and that is the main effect. > > If you make the glued wire very long you will get a big area delta A, > which is changed ! > > > >> > >Vind.=dPhi/dt= B x dA/dt > > >> > > > > >> > >As the magnet is NOT moved, but just the area > > >> > >delta A is varied you can see, that there is > > > The yellow center area of the magnet is always on the left of the wires, > > so this area isn not changed. > > Yes, but this whole yellow area is changed in its surface ! > > Imagine using a glued conductor of 1 Meter. > If you then change the connector wires also for > delta s= 1 Meter, you have an aera change of > 100 cm x 100 cm. > > You would need pretty huge permanent magnets ... > but this is just an engeneering problem which could be solved... > > Now if you use a plastic foil based multiple traces amorphous copper > conductor, > like these which are used in ink jet printers today for the printer > head, > you could build a real coil by connecting these multiple traces in > series. > > This would increase the output voltage ! > > The real question is, > will it be possible to violate the Lenz law and will there be no drag > back effect > on the unit, when load current is applied to this wire loop ? > > Regards, Stefan. > > > -Dave > > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 09:39:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA24715; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:39:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:39:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990615081232.22cf6756@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:12:32 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage! In-Reply-To: <3766268A.5C0673E1@harti.com> References: <007901beb630$e5db6a00$807988d1@monorailpc> <3764B89A.C3A2FCBF@harti.com> <3.0.6.16.19990615000636.2bf7afbc@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"rEv-I1.0.z16.x6ePt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10868 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan and all, At 12:10 PM 6/15/99 +0200, you wrote: >Dave Dameron schrieb: >> >> Hi Stefan and all, >> Thank you for this article. >> I think the voltage generated by this machine will be very small. The area >> of the flux is changed only at the top and bottom of the magnets between >> the edges and the green pulleys where the wire turns to leave the magnet area. > > >Hmm, yes, but the yellow area is changed and that is the main effect. > >If you make the glued wire very long you will get a big area delta A, >which is changed ! > The glued wire defines the right edge, and the dispenced wires define the top and bottom of the yellow area. However, the left edge is arbitrary, there is no wire there. One has to continue the path of the external connections to see what the actual area and d(phi)/dt = B x dA/dt is. Note, this is more like a normal generator (a loop turning in a B field), not a homopolar one where it can be difficult to show an area which is changing with time. The whole circuit for a homopolar disk generator can be in the plane defined by the shaft axis and the radial direction where the brush is located. The area and "motion" of this area is fixed in time. I guess this is one reason for the interest in homopolar devices, induction, etc. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 10:13:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA04376; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:12:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:12:55 -0700 Message-ID: <376685F8.40D3B2E4@teleweb.at> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:57:28 +0200 From: Preiss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [de]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage! References: <007901beb630$e5db6a00$807988d1@monorailpc> <3764B89A.C3A2FCBF@harti.com> <3.0.6.16.19990615000636.2bf7afbc@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990615081232.22cf6756@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cqLiD1.0.H41.McePt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10869 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Dave ! I see the problem you have. You don't read me document "The final understanding of the real N-Effect". In chapter 2 I showed also a loop like this, to explain the induction law (The glued wire defines the right edge, and the dispenced wires define thetop and bottom of the yellow area. However, the left edge is arbitrary, there is no wire there). Also I showed the modification of the areas (there are two areas changing) in a DePalma-Machine. You can find this document under http://members.teleweb.at/preiss direct access is also possible, because I put it on http://trp.conk.com - sorry but this doc is written in german language - I work on the translation. But you can look at the pictures. Read this document (translation via http://babelfish.altavista.com/)(chapter 2 - it shows the induction law from the todays site of physics. You can also find this "open" loop area (for explanation of delta A modification) in a german technical book (ISBN 3-519-26400-5) this loop area is also limited by three wires. Also you wrote that the voltage is inducted in the little wire parts (top and bottom of the magnet). Where is here your loop area limited by four wires and not by three or two wires (when you say there will be a voltage inducted this is very critical - because in this case you have a loop area limited by two wires) Best regards Thomas Dave Dameron schrieb: > > Hi Stefan and all, > At 12:10 PM 6/15/99 +0200, you wrote: > > >Dave Dameron schrieb: > >> > >> Hi Stefan and all, > >> Thank you for this article. > >> I think the voltage generated by this machine will be very small. The area > >> of the flux is changed only at the top and bottom of the magnets between > >> the edges and the green pulleys where the wire turns to leave the magnet > area. > > > > > >Hmm, yes, but the yellow area is changed and that is the main effect. > > > >If you make the glued wire very long you will get a big area delta A, > >which is changed ! > > > The glued wire defines the right edge, and the dispenced wires define the > top and bottom of the yellow area. However, the left edge is arbitrary, > there is no wire there. One has to continue the path of the external > connections to see what the actual area and d(phi)/dt = B x dA/dt is. > > Note, this is more like a normal generator (a loop turning in a B field), > not a homopolar one where it can be difficult to show an area which is > changing with time. The whole circuit for a homopolar disk generator can be > in the plane defined by the shaft axis and the radial direction where the > brush is located. > The area and "motion" of this area is fixed in time. I guess this is one > reason for the interest in homopolar devices, induction, etc. > > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 13:30:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA16509; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:28:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:28:39 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:30:14 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: The 1999 Bay Area UFO Expo Schedule is now Available Resent-Message-ID: <"5sULo3.0.s14.sThPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10870 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The 1999 Bay Area UFO Expo Schedule is now Available at: http://www.padrak.com/baufoexpo/ The current titles of the speaker's 45 minute free lectures (with admission ticket) and the titles of the speaker's 90 workshops (extra ticket required) and a summary of each talk is available at: http://www.hathorproductions.com Tickets (in advance) are only $40 for both days and only $15.00 per workshop. This is the big UFO Event this year on the West Coast! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 15:29:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA27431; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:26:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:26:30 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A puzzle about electro-magnetics device Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:25:50 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3766d221.486709320@mail-hub> References: <2eb9c94d.2497d430@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <2eb9c94d.2497d430@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA27339 Resent-Message-ID: <"prBwe3.0.Vi6.MCjPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10871 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:07:12 EDT, Keasy@aol.com wrote: [snip] >Well, I think standard theory would say there is nothing very special about >this configuration -- the fields can be calculated, etc. etc. At high >frequencies there may be interesting radiation patterns, but at 60 hz there >should not be anything very interesting going on. Why these electromagnets >would effect people or the weather would clearly have to fall into the "not >expected by standard theory" category. [snip] Perhaps this was a powerful torsion field generator, and the resultant torsion field caused water vapour to condense into clouds (as well as affecting various chemical reactions in the human body). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 16:27:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA20571; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:22:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:22:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3766E494.F71BBAF8@servtech.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:41:08 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Kjq-U1.0.G15.C1kPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10872 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave Dameron wrote: > > I did some more calculations with the fixed VACE 1 radius away from the > rotating VACE. The maximum alpha for this case is about 31 deg. Beta > (=epsilon-alpha) will vary over the whole 360 deg, as will the angle > epsilon= 90 deg -rotation angle. > > I get the following, for angle of the rotating VACE (0 deg = bottom) > Angle in degrees, Force = angular factor only. > Angle Force > 0 0 > 10 0.66 > 20 1.05 > 30 1.22 > 40 1.17 > 50 1.03 > 60 0.84 > 70 0.68 max lever arm about here > 80 0.55 > 90 0.42 > 100 0.30 > 110 0.14 > 120 -0.02 > 130 -0.12 > 140 -0.17 > 150 -0.20 > 160 -0.12 > 170 -0.09 > 180 0 > It is unknown what the net torque is, as the lever arms need to be factored in > (as well as the unknown radial factors), It does look like there might be a > net amount. I also don't think the other side of the circle is symmetric > either. > (alpha is now negative, but doesn't change the sign of cos(alpha), but on > the other side, 190 to 360 deg., cos(epsilon) has the opposite sign.) > I think I can show that the force is anti-symmetric. That is, for any point on the right side say the force is F at that point. Then on the left side, at the mirror point to the right side, the force will be -F. > > Are you about to build a test model? > > -Dave I've been calling around looking for magnets and companies that can do the magnetization. I found a couple of companies that can do "something" for about $100.00, but I am not ready to spend the money. (I have too little as it is.) And I am more and more convinced that I am forgetting something *very* basic in the calculations and computer simulations. (See my next e-mail post.) So, no, I am not about to build one.... Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 16:40:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA27205; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:40:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:40:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3766E896.5CB092FD@servtech.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:58:14 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE is DIPOLE motor?? References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EdX7u2.0.ze6.dHkPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10873 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, I remembered today that I did a comparison of the Ampere force equation and the equation for the force between 2 dipoles last year. The results are on my web page at http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/Lynn/ampdip/ampdip.html Basically, I show that there is an interesting correspondence/relation between the dipole equation and Ampere's equation. So, using the *dipole* force interaction equation instead of the Ampere force equation, and doing the same kind of force simulation on a circle of dipoles due to a single "external to the circle" dipole, I get similar results as in the VACE case.... The left side of the circle of dipoles will have a net force (so net torque) opposite to the net force on the right side (so torque in same direction.) This results in a net torque on the circle of dipoles. But this result is wrong (isn't it?). And like the VACE situation, I can't see where in the calculations I made the mistake! (Very frustrating!!) Again, I can easily see that there will be no net torque from *energy* considerations. (Since there is no difference in energy between any 2 orientations of the dipole ring, there is no net torque.) But when I use the force equation and sum up the forces on each side of the circle, I get non-zero results (for each side). So, in a nutshell, if you can get a *dipole* motor to work, then you can get a VACE motor to work. And I think the reverse is true as well. And since magnets are pretty good dipoles, there's no lack of dipoles to play with. Speaking from my conventional physics education: Since you can't make a dipole motor, I doubt you can make a VACE motor. But where is the mistake I keep making!!! ;) Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 19:14:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA14095; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:13:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:13:45 -0700 Message-ID: <3766DE81.6DCA@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:15:13 -0400 From: Alik Shereshevsky Reply-To: alik@intergate.bc.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A puzzle about electro-magnetics device References: <3.0.5.32.19990614234526.007c5720@mail.netrover.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ROOZx2.0.yR3.OXmPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10874 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Marcus Cole wrote: that goes like this : > > "We made 2 conical electro-magnets, which we setup face to face, (sharp > point facing each other) One was fixed and the other was adjustable > (distance). When we started the device, we then use iron dust to make the A few years ago a patent was issued for a 'levitator' working against earth's magnetic field. For a while even NASA got interested (according to Aviation Week). That thing had multiple conical electromagnets pointing towards each other. Inventor's name was something like 'Watchspress' (I may have missed a letter or two). Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 20:59:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA19484; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:57:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:57:56 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: magnetic ring FE motor?? Message-Id: <929505468.27161.878@excite.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:57:48 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"IJce82.0.Lm4.43oPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10875 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:26:50, Dave Dameron wrote: > Hi Harvey and all, > At 09:32 PM 6/13/99 PDT, you wrote: > > >In the middle 80's I had an idea that recently returned with modifications. > >I think I submitted this once before under Norris Magnetic Ring Motor on > >2/99. > > At that time several people noted that it could not work as advertised > >in that conception as the working principle the ring cannot rotate without > >without some kind of bearing or physical connection to prevent the ring from > >hugging the field coils at some point. > >I can fully agree with this. This is why we have a discussion list so that > >if an idea is outlandish or even impossible we can throw it out to others to > >gauge their opinions. > > > >Imagine a copper magnetic motor that has a ring armature that rotates freely > >in space with no connections > >Imagine a hula hoop or plastic toroidal magnet container. You have many > >aluminum and neodmium discs that you shove into the hoop in alternating > >sequence until the ring is completed. > > Have you seen drawings of the Gramme ring motor? It was popular in the > 19'th century and is sort of like your ring motor, but the coils and > magnets switched. > The toroid windings rotate, and the magnets inside are fixed. Actually the > core magnetic material is soft iron and does rotate, but it is magnetized > by an external magnet, so the its poles are fixed in space. The poles need > to be NSSN, not NSNS like with a VACE. Think of pushing a magnet through a > coil and how you would do it continuously, and you come up with the Gramme > geometry. > > It also raised the question of induced EMF's, change of flux vs. wires > cutting flux. Do the wires on the inside of the toroid, which don't "see" > any flux, contribute to the operation (as a generator). > -Dave > You raise a good point and I am unfamiliar with the Gramme geometry and this design you speak of. As theorists most of us are aware that the flux change within a closed loop can generate an emf on the loop without the majority of flux lines actually crossing or intersecting the loop. This of course is mysterious but usually a experiment shows a feeble effect. I thought I read in a simple physics text explanation some time ago that the emf on an outside loop of wide area only experiences an emf proportional to the effective area of the flux change divided by the area of the loop itself. With loops encompassing a large area in comparison to that of the flux change this ratio rapidly drops off with distance. Forgive me for going off topic here on the ring motor/generator idea but when we are talking of large areas of flux change we are usually talking of using a high frequency and air core as used by tesla coils. It is easy to understand how a large coil can be built (ie teslas >100 ft diameter colorado springs coil) and the interior coils within the vicinity to be excited or magnified, but the reverse application where a small coil is excited and the big coil picks up energy though allowed by flux change laws to be feeble could be enhanced. In fact what is ringing all about? The larger coil can still be made to have the SAME inductance as the inner by simply altering the spacing between wires on the outer. In fact one of the first experiments I did on this was to surround a 20 inch diameter tesla coil of primitive design that only produced a 3 inch arc on top secondary with a 7 foot diameter coil using 1/3 the length of wire but the spacings separated so that the same inductance should be approximated using Wheelers inductance formula. This was before I even had an inductance meter! Relying on formula alone produced a half inch discharge on the outer coil between beginning and ending leads. My friend thought this remarkable in that hardly any of the tesla coils flux change was crossing that outer coil wires but an emf was present. This was a very haphazard construction and days later when I went to demonstrate it to others it produced only a small fraction of an inch discharge because the wire had sagged (I used toothpicks as the wire holders, what a hillbilly construction!) Unfortunately I have done no experimental work on the ring motor and only threw it out in accordance with the VACE concepts being shown by others doing this excellent work. Toroidal geometry is fascinating. Knowing how a piece of aluminum demonstrates a great eddy curent mechanical resistance to moving magnetic fields I supposed that if these aluminum segments could do this job in accordance with a moving toroidal magnetic field I thought perhaps it was a idea that could be used by others so that the normal toroidal closed magnetic loop could OPEN up and THEN react with the field windings when these aluminum pieces became under the influence of the field windings. As such it would then become "pinched" because of the discontinuity of the toroidal magnetic field and then react in the conventional magnetic motor sense. As for any over unity effects I am sure everyone is becoming sceptical of those words over the years, but some of us like myself are willing to try anything to see if it is possible and some time in my future this is on the drawing board. Thanx for the info on Gramme. Sincerly Harvey D Norris _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 22:17:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15236; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:16:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:16:51 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990615201445.2387d002@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:14:45 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage! In-Reply-To: <376685F8.40D3B2E4@teleweb.at> References: <007901beb630$e5db6a00$807988d1@monorailpc> <3764B89A.C3A2FCBF@harti.com> <3.0.6.16.19990615000636.2bf7afbc@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990615081232.22cf6756@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"3TSDg.0.sj3.3DpPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10876 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Thomas and all, At 06:57 PM 6/15/99 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, Dave ! > >I see the problem you have. You don't read me document "The final >understanding of the real N-Effect". In chapter 2 I showed also a loop >like this, to explain the induction law (The glued wire defines the >right edge, and the dispenced wires define thetop and bottom of the >yellow area. However, the left edge is arbitrary, there is no wire >there). Also I showed the modification of the areas (there are two areas >changing) in a DePalma-Machine. > >Also you wrote that the voltage is inducted in the little wire parts >(top and bottom of the magnet). Where is here your loop area limited by >four wires and not by three or two wires (when you say there will be a >voltage inducted this is very critical - because in this case you have a >loop area limited by two wires) > >Best regards Thomas > I have a related question first. Suppose you have a wire a-b moving through an area of constant B field: The loop (no sliding contacts) is moving at a velocity V and the segment a-b is moving through the magnetic flux xxx (out of the screen). The flux through this loop abcd is increasing. VM. is a voltmeter. Suppose at the same time you connect another voltmeter to a and b, but located on the right side of the flux area. The flux through this loop abc'd' is decreasing at the same rate it is increasing on the left. Does it read the same sign as the first because the loop is now the opposite sense(clockwise vs. counterclockwise), so the "normal vector" to the area is reversed? The B x velocity x length is obviously the same for both circuits. The return flux is outside of both loops, as typical. d__________a..................d' | | --->Velocity | |+ xxxx|xxxx | + VM. xxxx|xxxx Second Voltmeter |- xxxx|xxxx | - | | | c-----------b.................c' -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 22:17:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15346; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:16:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:16:56 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990615204952.2387b3ea@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:49:52 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? In-Reply-To: <3766E494.F71BBAF8@servtech.com> References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"X096d2.0.hl3.8DpPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10877 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob and all, At 07:41 PM 6/15/99 -0400, you wrote: > >> It is unknown what the net torque is, as the lever arms need to be factored in >> (as well as the unknown radial factors), It does look like there might be a >> net amount. I also don't think the other side of the circle is symmetric >> either. >> (alpha is now negative, but doesn't change the sign of cos(alpha), but on >> the other side, 190 to 360 deg., cos(epsilon) has the opposite sign.) >> > >I think I can show that the force is anti-symmetric. That is, for any point on >the right side say the force is F at that point. Then on the left side, at the >mirror point to the right side, the force will be -F. Yes, I see that now. Cos(alpha) doesn't change sign, but the other 2 cos(angles) do. > and: > VACE is DIPOLE motor?? > >The results are on my web page at > >http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/Lynn/ampdip/ampdip.html > >Basically, I show that there is an interesting correspondence/relation >between the dipole equation and Ampere's equation. This is interesting. If you don't go to the abstraction of the B field of a toroid being similar to that of a current element, but look at the ferromagnetic current loops themselves, then the total force interaction is a sum of many magnetic dipole interactions. Did you calculate the dipole force interaction equation, or have a reference? I have found so far only the "far field" of a dipole, not the force. I did, as a reality check, check the forces between 2 permanent magnets as their angles varied, for the Tom Phipps cases (A), (B), (C) and got: Ampere Permanent magnets, relative magnitudes only (A) cos(angle) -sin(angle) (B) -2sin(angle) sin(angle) (C) 3cos^2(angle)-2 cos(2*angle) > >So, using the *dipole* force interaction equation instead of the >Ampere force equation, and doing the same kind of force simulation >on a circle of dipoles due to a single "external to the circle" dipole, >I get similar results as in the VACE case.... The left side of the >circle of dipoles will have a net force (so net torque) opposite >to the net force on the right side (so torque in same direction.) >This results in a net torque on the circle of dipoles. > >But this result is wrong (isn't it?). > >And like the VACE situation, I can't see where in the calculations I made the >mistake! (Very frustrating!!) > In spite of claims by Johnson, Minato etc. of working PM motors, all my tests of a ring of magnets in various geometries with an external magnet or DC current have not run. Of course, conventional energy physics says they will not.... -Dave ps. The induction between 2 solenoids also has a null at that angle ~35.2 degrees. This was used in early radio receivers (1920's) when they were made mostly of wood and shielding wasn't used as often. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 15 22:42:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA25641; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:42:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:42:05 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990615211630.2f072c0c@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:16:30 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: magnetic ring FE motor?? In-Reply-To: <929505468.27161.878@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"sUbwX3.0.TG6.japPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10878 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Harvey and all, At 08:57 PM 6/15/99 PDT, you wrote: >> Have you seen drawings of the Gramme ring motor? It was popular in the >> 19'th century and is sort of like your ring motor, but the coils and >> magnets switched. >> The toroid windings rotate, and the magnets inside are fixed. Actually >the >> core magnetic material is soft iron and does rotate, but it is magnetized >> by an external magnet, so the its poles are fixed in space. >You raise a good point and I am unfamiliar with the Gramme geometry and this >design you speak of. As theorists most of us are aware that the flux change >within a closed loop can generate an emf on the loop without the majority of >flux lines actually crossing or intersecting the loop. I haven't found a diagram on the net, but here is an article which has a description: http://www.thomasedison.com/england.htm -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 16 04:44:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA21240; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 04:39:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 04:39:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990616134144.00a45810@mail.bahnhof.se> X-Sender: david@mail.bahnhof.se X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:41:44 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: David Jonsson Subject: Re: Keelynet Archives In-Reply-To: <929347792.10605.39@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2mj1P3.0.nB5.tpuPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10879 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:09 1999-06-14 PDT, you wrote: >Been trying to access Keelynet archives for a while now, it seems to be >working now, after a transition to new provider. Dont know why the archive >access seems to have been down for a while. I stopped receiving messages >from the list about a month ago because of the tesla4@excite.com faux >address. > Hey its great to be able to access this info again anyways. The address >is http://www.keelynet.com/interact/Archives.html I have an archive covering 1200 older articles from Keelynet. Look at http://www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/ David From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 16 04:47:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA22805; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 04:44:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 04:44:53 -0700 Message-ID: <37679281.BD3173B0@servtech.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:03:14 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990615204952.2387b3ea@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"A33hT2.0.Ea5.quuPt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10880 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave Dameron wrote: > > >Basically, I show that there is an interesting correspondence/relation > >between the dipole equation and Ampere's equation. > > This is interesting. If you don't go to the abstraction of the B field of a > toroid being similar to that of a current element, but look at the > ferromagnetic current loops themselves, then the total force interaction is > a sum of many magnetic dipole interactions. Did you calculate the dipole > force interaction equation, or have a reference? Jackson gives the interaction energy relation on p.143, from which you can take the derivative to get the force. Eyges give the energy equation on page 159, and Griffiths (first edition) give it on p. 241. Maybe I took the derivative wrong? Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 16 14:40:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA03639; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 14:32:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 14:32:05 -0700 Message-ID: <37681803.3FB03414@harti.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:32:51 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , Preiss Subject: Error in N-machine Document from Thomas Preiss !? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JFIxg2.0.eu.LV1Qt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10881 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I had today a longer conversation with the 5 KW N-machine builder from company PSItron, Germany, who had published their test report in 1987, about their failure to build an overunity N-machine with their 5 KW N-Machine. They also corresponded a lot with Bruce de Palma, but also he and PSItron did not get any drag free N-Machine to build. There seems to be an error inside the document from Mr. Preiss, that in his new design LN-machine, there is just a voltage induced in the moving parts, not in the stationare conductor. I have put put the error picture into: http://www.overunity.com/nmachine/ Have a look there... Too bad... it looked good for the first moment. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 16 15:32:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA01618; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:22:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:22:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <44912318.24997b2c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:11:56 EDT Subject: Re: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Resent-Message-ID: <"pNDPA2.0.6P.gE2Qt"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10882 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/15/99 10:17:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: << I have a related question first. Suppose you have a wire a-b moving through an area of constant B field: The loop (no sliding contacts) is moving at a velocity V and the segment a-b is moving through the magnetic flux xxx (out of the screen). The flux through this loop abcd is increasing. VM. is a voltmeter. Suppose at the same time you connect another voltmeter to a and b, but located on the right side of the flux area. The flux through this loop abc'd' is decreasing at the same rate it is increasing on the left. Does it read the same sign as the first because the loop is now the opposite sense(clockwise vs. counterclockwise), so the "normal vector" to the area is reversed? The B x velocity x length is obviously the same for both circuits. The return flux is outside of both loops, as typical. d__________a..................d' | | --->Velocity | |+ xxxx|xxxx | + VM. xxxx|xxxx Second Voltmeter |- xxxx|xxxx | - | | | c-----------b.................c' -Dave > My reaction is that VM is in a loop of increasing flux with the resultant E field CCW (by your set up of the problem) and the second voltmeter is in a loop of decreasing flux so the electric field must be CW and the polarity you will see is as you have indicated. However, that is if the xxxx represent a B field into the screen, if I understand the set-up correctly, (E = v x B -vector cross product-, or E= - d phi / dt). But the two meters should always read the same sign, as seems logical. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 16 15:43:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06121; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:43:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:43:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3767FA22.37223D9C@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:25:22 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Torsion List Subject: News Release from the University of Toronto and The Hospital for Sick Children: MAGNETIC FIELD EXPOSURE ASSOCIATED WITH CHILDHOOD LEUKEMIA Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A7AAD53E0BEC022A9C142CC8" Resent-Message-ID: <"LjWuT2.0.YV1.JY2Qt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10883 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A7AAD53E0BEC022A9C142CC8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 60 Hz is dangereous enough, what about magnetic fields on RF? http://www.library.utoronto.ca/researchnews/news_july26_99.html --------------A7AAD53E0BEC022A9C142CC8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8; name="news_july26_99.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="news_july26_99.html" Content-Base: "http://www.library.utoronto.ca/researc hnews/news_july26_99.html" Content-Location: "http://www.library.utoronto.ca/researc hnews/news_july26_99.html" News Release from the University of Toronto and The Hospital for Sick Children: MAGNETIC FIELD EXPOSURE ASSOCIATED WITH CHILDHOOD LEUKEMIA

News Release from the University of Toronto
  and The Hospital for Sick Children ...

Magnetic Field Exposure Associated with Childhood Leukemia

June 15, 1999

Researchers at the University of Toronto and the Hospital for Sick Children have found an association between magnetic field exposures in residences and the risk of developing childhood leukemia.

The study, reported in two separate papers in the current issues of the International Journal of Cancer (IJC) and the journal Cancer Causes and Control (CCC), shows that children with higher exposures to magnetic fields in residences are two to four times more likely to develop leukemia compared to children who are less exposed. The study comprehensively measured magnetic field exposures inside and outside the children's homes. Wire code was also assigned to each residence. For some children, EMF exposure s were measured by a personal monitor.

The authors report in IJC that overall, wire code -- a surrogate indicator of magnetic field exposure based on the physical characteristics of the line and proximity of the residence to power lines -- was not associated with an increased risk of developin g leukemia. However, measured magnetic field exposure was associated with an elevated incidence of leukemia in children under age six who were exposed in residences occupied during the first two years of life.

A subset of the total study population wore a personal monitoring device which measured EMF during usual activities in the home over 48 hours. As reported in CCC, exposure to magnetic fields was associated with a two-fold increase in risk of developing le ukemia.

When other factors such as residential mobility, power consumption, child's medical history and other environmental exposures were taken into account, children exposed to higher levels of magnetic fields were 4.5 times more likely to develop leukemia comp ared to less exposed children. Risks were higher for children diagnosed at less than six years of age and for those with acute lymphoblastic leukemia -- the most common type of leukemia in children.

"As the methods of assessing exposure were refined, we found that the association between magnetic fields and the risk of developing childhood leukemia became stronger, particularly in children diagnosed at a younger age," says lead author Dr. Lois Green, epidemiologist in the department of public health sciences at U of T and at Ontario Power Generation. "But this study does not establish that magnetic fields cause cancer. To date, laboratory research has not shown a plausible biologic mechanism supporti ng a cause and effect relationship."

Researchers compared 201 children living in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) who were diagnosed with leukemia at 0 to 14 years of age between 1985 and 1993 at the Hospital for Sick Children with 406 control children.

Where possible, magnetic field exposures were measured at all the GTA residences occupied by the child during the period of inquiry -- the only study to date to consider several different exposure time periods. A detailed questionnaire was also administe red to gather information about other factors such as family history, which might be related to leukemia risk.

"Acute lymphoblastic leukemia is most commonly seen in children two to six years of age. The association we saw with this age group is interesting because the range of exposures to possible risk factors is smaller and shorter," says Dr. Mark Greenberg, pr ofessor of pediatrics at U of T and pediatric oncologist at the Hospital for Sick Children. "We don't know what it means however, because there is no good biologic explanation for how such exposure might work."

Another consideration, Green adds, is the possibility that lifetime exposures to magnetic fields may have been measured more accurately for younger children because the interval between diagnosis and measurement was short, thus reducing possible misclassi fication of exposure.

Funding was provided in part by the Ontario Hydro Services Company (formerly part of Ontario Hydro) and the Canadian Electrical Association.

Questions and answers about electric and magnetic fields
and U of T/HSC leukemia research

For more on the study or to reach Dr. Green, contact:
Steven de Sousa
U of T Public Affairs
(416) 978-5949
e-mail: steven.desousa@utoronto.ca
Back to: [ University of Toronto News Releases ]

Last Updated: June 15, 1999

--------------A7AAD53E0BEC022A9C142CC8-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 16 22:43:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA24254; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:43:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:43:00 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990616211518.22af2b78@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:15:18 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: A new linear emhanced N-Machine with bigger output voltage! In-Reply-To: <44912318.24997b2c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2ySBD2.0.mw5.ah8Qt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10884 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:11 PM 6/16/99 EDT, Ken wrote: >> d__________a..................d' >> | | --->Velocity | >> |+ xxxx|xxxx | + >> VM. xxxx|xxxx Second Voltmeter >> |- xxxx|xxxx | - >> | | | >> c-----------b.................c' >> -Dave > >My reaction is that VM is in a loop of increasing flux with the resultant E >field CCW (by your set up of the problem) and the second voltmeter is in a >loop of decreasing flux so the electric field must be CW and the polarity you >will see is as you have indicated. > However, that is if the xxxx represent a B field into the screen, if I >understand the set-up correctly, (E = v x B -vector cross product-, or E= - >d phi / dt). But the two meters should always read the same sign, as seems >logical. > Yes, you understand the setup correctly. Before I would have stated the meters should read the same, but now first check for "weird" transformer induction effects in the voltmeter leads, such as the homopolar disk with spinning magnet, that problem on your web site, or a closed resistive loop where the voltage is induced and "dropped" in the same element. This problem would look more like a transformer if the moving wire in the field were placed in a cylindrical ferromagnetic shield. There would still be the d phi/dt, but no flux at the wire. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 16 22:43:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA24316; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:43:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:43:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990616210254.2397d958@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:02:54 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: VACE is DIPOLE motor?? In-Reply-To: <3766E896.5CB092FD@servtech.com> References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"SiSx_.0.rx5.fh8Qt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10885 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob and all, At 07:58 PM 6/15/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Well, I remembered today that I did a comparison of the Ampere >force equation and the equation for the force between 2 dipoles last year. > >The results are on my web page at > >http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/Lynn/ampdip/ampdip.html > >Basically, I show that there is an interesting correspondence/relation >between the dipole equation and Ampere's equation. >>> >But this result is wrong (isn't it?). > >And like the VACE situation, I can't see where in the calculations I made the >mistake! (Very frustrating!!) > Permanent magnets are much easier to come by than VACE elements. I mounted 2 permanent magnets on a rotor like this: (O=axis). N S -----O----- S N and explored the torque from a third magnet, outside. Two glaring differences showed up: 1. The force (and thus torque) is not always along the vector between the magnets. Although it may be for masses (gravity) or 2 point charges, for (electric or magnetic) dipoles where there is a difference between 2 _almost_ identical vectors, the resultant can be 90 deg. from the original 2. I believe a "current element" would behave much like a dipole, it has direction, etc. 2. The magnets are a finite size and changes in the torque are a strong function of the angular size of the third magnet. In particular, if the third magnet is pointed radially, the torque is always CW or CCW except where they are ~aligned, where the torque is strongest in the opposite sense. The amount of this angular size is approx. the angular size of the third magnet. If this opposite force and torque could be eliminated, such as in the VACE force relation, I believe the rotor would spin on its own, and this opposite torque is what people try to remove in "regauging" of their PM motors. 1 and 2 are somewhat related. I believe they would be factors for VACE elements too, but not in the present basic equations. In some configurations, I can see a stable point at an angle that may approach 35.3 deg. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 17 04:33:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA16560; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 04:33:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 04:33:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3768E14B.6F7881F6@servtech.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:51:39 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE is DIPOLE motor?? References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990616210254.2397d958@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Y60JI1.0.f24._pDQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10886 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, I finally see my error in the DIPOLE case.... When I did the comparison of the dipole force equation, I *fixed* the orientation of the 2 dipoles. (Because that was the case I was considering) and then took only the partial derivative with respect to the distance between the dipoles to get the force equation. For the *general* diopole case, I need to take the gradient of the energy equation which introduces derivatives with respect to the angle parameters and introduces tems in the sine function..... So the general force equation on dipoles does not look so much like the Ampere force equation after all!! Forget about the dipole case. Sorry to have brought it up. So, I am back to considering the Ampere force law. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 17 09:13:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA10376; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:12:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:12:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990617074520.237fdeb6@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:45:20 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: VACE is DIPOLE motor?? In-Reply-To: <3768E14B.6F7881F6@servtech.com> References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990616210254.2397d958@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Gj7Z-.0.1Y2.kvHQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10887 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:51 AM 6/17/99 -0400, Bob wrote: >Well, I finally see my error in the DIPOLE case.... > >When I did the comparison of the dipole force equation, I *fixed* >the orientation of the 2 dipoles. (Because that was the case I was considering) >and then took only the partial derivative with respect to the distance between >the dipoles to get the force equation. > >For the *general* diopole case, I need to take the gradient of the energy equation > >which introduces derivatives with respect to the angle parameters and introduces >tems in the sine function..... So the general force equation on dipoles does >not look so much like the Ampere force equation after all!! Forget about the >dipole case. Sorry to have brought it up. Well I am glad you brought it up. 1. A restricted dipole configuration looks like the Ampere force equation. Is there any physical correspondence for this?? 2. The restricted configuration may be desired instead of the more general dipole relation. You has some reason to do the analysis. One could use slides, links, etc. to keep the orientation of a rotating magnet or dipole fixed.... >So, I am back to considering the Ampere force law. > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 17 09:44:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA24814; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:43:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:43:16 -0700 Message-ID: <376921EC.BE5EDD43@teleweb.at> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:27:24 +0200 From: Preiss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [de]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Error in N-machine Document from Thomas Preiss !? References: <37681803.3FB03414@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jmOFX3.0.Y36.aMIQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10888 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann schrieb: > > Hi, > > I had today a longer conversation with the > 5 KW N-machine builder from company PSItron, Germany, > who had published their test report in 1987, > about their failure to build an overunity N-machine > with their 5 KW N-Machine. > They also corresponded a lot with Bruce de Palma, > but also he and PSItron did not get any drag free > N-Machine to build. ==> This effect which appears in this machines is clear to me since a half year - I will report it in my next update on sunday. > > There seems to be an error inside the document from Mr. Preiss, > that in his new design LN-machine, there is just a voltage > induced in the moving parts, not in the stationare conductor. > > I have put put the error picture into: > > http://www.overunity.com/nmachine/ > > Have a look there... > > Too bad... it looked good for the first moment. > ==> Seems to be a error (OK a voltage is also inducted in this parts, but I don't wrote about this because it will be to complicated) but I will show in the next update why this is also not correct (that the voltage will only appear in the parts shown by Stefan). I send him an Email privatly (earlier) with a other constuction of this device - and when his Email to freenrg is correct, in the other machine no voltage will be inducted. And when this seems to be also correct, we have a big problem with the induction law. Best regards, Thomas > Regards, Stefan. > > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 17 12:43:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA05875; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:43:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:43:13 -0700 Message-ID: <37694F3E.A153AC@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:40:46 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Electromagnetic Zero Point Field as Active Energy Source in the Intergalactic Medium (eprint:gr-qc/9906067) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WYsMx2.0.WR1.G_KQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10889 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9906067 This paper appeared today on LANL archive. Regards, hamdi ucar General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology, abstract gr-qc/9906067 From: Bernhard Haisch Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:09:47 GMT (10kb) Electromagnetic Zero Point Field as Active Energy Source in the Intergalactic Medium Authors: Alfonso Rueda, Hiroki Sunahata, Bernhard Haisch Comments: 7 pages, no figures Report-no: AIAA paper 99-2145 Journal-ref: 35th AIAA/ASME/SAE/ASEE Joint Propulsion Conference and Exhibit, 20-24 June 1999, Los Angeles For over twenty years the possibility that the electromagnetic zero point field (ZPF) may actively accelerate electromagnetically interacting particles in regions of extremely low particle density (as those extant in intergalactic space (IGS) with n < 1 particle/m^3 has been studied and analyzed. This energizing phenomenon has been one of the few contenders for acceleration of cosmic rays (CR), particularly at ultrahigh energies. The recent finding by the AGASA collaboration (Phys. Rev. Lett., 81, 1163, 1998) that the CR energy spectrum does not display any signs of the Greisen-Zatsepin-Kuzmin cut-off (that should be present if these CR particles were indeed generated in localized ultrahigh energies CR sources, as e.g., quasars and other highly active galactic nuclei), may indicate the need for an acceleration mechanism that is distributed throughout IGS as is the case with the ZPF. Other unexplained phenomena that receive an explanation from this mechanism are the generation of X-ray and gamma-ray backgrounds and the existence of Cosmic Voids. However recently, a statistical mechanics kind of challenge to the classical (not the quantum) version of the zero-point acceleration mechanism has been posed (de la Pena and Cetto, The Quantum Dice, 1996). Here we briefly examine the consequences of this challenge and a prospective resolution. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 17 13:38:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31765; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:36:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:36:59 -0700 Message-ID: <001f01beb902$7a1014e0$187e3cd1@default> From: "Robin Dye: The Credit Zone/VisionQuest Productions" To: Subject: Tesla...The Movie Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:46:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01BEB8C7.CC618B60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"Aipd13.0.Em7.gnLQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10890 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BEB8C7.CC618B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable THE SECRET OF NIKOLA TESLA: THE MOVIE was a biographical film produced = in the 1980s by Zagreb Films, was released for home videos and then = disappeared after the price for the video soared to $79. Now its back = for only $29.95 + S/H! Exotic Research is proud to be the first retail = dealer to make the video available. To see a brief overview of the film = go to: http://www.exoticresearch.com =20 MARK BEAN TO APPEAR AT 1999 PHOENIX EXOTIC RESEARCH CONFERENCE=20 Mark Bean is putting together a Tesla Coil demonstration to be shown at = the 1999 Exotic Research Conference. Pre-registration is strong and = members are urged to get their registration in early to get both the = discount and be assured they can get in. Do not forget to make hotel = reservations before June 30, 1999 at 1-800-HOLIDAY... and be sure to = tell them it is for the Exotic Research Conference. For Program: http://www.exoticresearch.com Any questions or comments, please call Steve Elswick at (520) 424-3581 ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BEB8C7.CC618B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
THE SECRET OF NIKOLA TESLA: THE MOVIE was a=20 biographical film produced in the 1980s by Zagreb Films, was released = for home=20 videos and then disappeared after the price for the video soared to $79. = Now its=20 back for only $29.95 + S/H! Exotic Research is proud to be the first = retail=20 dealer to make the video available. To see a brief overview of the film = go=20 to:
http://www.exoticresearch.com<= /FONT>
 
MARK BEAN TO APPEAR AT 1999 PHOENIX EXOTIC = RESEARCH=20 CONFERENCE
Mark Bean is putting together a Tesla Coil demonstration to be = shown at the=20 1999 Exotic Research Conference. Pre-registration is strong and members = are=20 urged to get their registration in early to get both the discount and be = assured=20 they can get in. Do not forget to make hotel reservations before June = 30, 1999=20 at 1-800-HOLIDAY... and be sure to tell them it is for the Exotic = Research=20 Conference. For Program:
http://www.exoticresearch.com<= /DIV>
 
Any questions or comments, please call Steve = Elswick at=20 (520) 424-3581
------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BEB8C7.CC618B60-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 17 17:21:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA09681; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 17:21:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 17:21:09 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <1650b06c.249aeac9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:20:25 EDT Subject: New "simple" magnetics question To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Resent-Message-ID: <"3dgpi2.0.AN2.r3PQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10891 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello all, My latest thoughts for a free energy machine boil down to a simple magnetics issue. It is as follows: Suppose there is a uniform field in space B0. I take an electromagnet (M1) with a current and a resultant field at its center: -B1 and place it in the field B0 so the field near the center of M1 is B0-B1, where the magnitude of B1 is less than the mag of B0. Now I uniformly decrease B0 and B1 to zero at the same time so that the ratio of B0 and B1 remains constant. The question is, as I decrease the current in the electromagnet to zero, will I need to add energy or will the process yield energy? If the process yields energy will it be more than the 1/2 L I * I that I had to put into the electromagnet originally. (Energy considerations of B0 are not important). It turns out that if the answer is that it yields energy instead of requiring energy, prospects for a overunity machine look quite good. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 17 18:46:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA09527; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:45:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:45:45 -0700 Message-ID: <3769A914.E9CDEA7A@servtech.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:04:04 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990615204952.2387b3ea@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NCAGh3.0.gK2.9JQQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10892 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have just added an interactive web page which calculates the net "relative" torque on a VACE torus due to a single "external" VACE. Try it out at http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/VACE/calc2/ct.html As far as I can tell, there is a net torque. But I am still expecting a calculation mistake to appear.... After all, we all know this can't work. ;) Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 17 19:54:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA03393; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:52:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:52:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3769B711.A9F158F0@servtech.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:03:45 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"g6q-73.0.wq.lHRQt"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10893 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave Dameron wrote: > > I did some more calculations with the fixed VACE 1 radius away from the > rotating VACE. The maximum alpha for this case is about 31 deg. Beta > (=epsilon-alpha) will vary over the whole 360 deg, as will the angle > epsilon= 90 deg -rotation angle. > > I get the following, for angle of the rotating VACE (0 deg = bottom) > Angle in degrees, Force = angular factor only. > Angle Force > 0 0 > 10 0.66 > 20 1.05 > 30 1.22 > 40 1.17 > 50 1.03 > 60 0.84 > 70 0.68 max lever arm about here > 80 0.55 > 90 0.42 > 100 0.30 > 110 0.14 > 120 -0.02 > 130 -0.12 > 140 -0.17 > 150 -0.20 > 160 -0.12 > 170 -0.09 > 180 0 Dave, I have tried to reproduce the Ampere force numbers you calculated. I was not able to reproduce them exactly, but up to about theta = 100 degrees, the match is pretty good. (I ignore the difference in the sign between what you calculated and what I calculated.) Bob Dave 0 0.000 0 10 -.649 0.66 20 -1.068 1.05 30 -1.214 1.22 40 -1.172 1.17 50 -1.035 1.03 60 -.865 0.84 70 -.693 0.68 80 -.536 0.55 90 -.399 0.42 100 -.285 0.30 110 -.193 0.14 120 -.123 -0.02 130 -0.071 -0.12 140 -0.036 -0.17 150 -0.015 -0.20 160 -0.004 -0.12 170 -0.000 -0.09 180 0.0 0.0 The most important aspect of this comparison is that you calculate a sign change in the force at 120 degrees whereas I calculate no sign change. This difference is key to getting the calculations correct. So, I picked angle 150 degrees and did the calculation again. I have alpha=69.896, beta=9.896, epsilon= -60. So 2 * cos(epsilon) = 1.0, 3 * cos(alpha) * cos(beta) = 1.015833. Then just the angle part of Ampere's force equation gives -0.0158. I assume here that the torus of VACEs has a radius of 1 and that the "external" VACE is located a distance of 1 away from the *closest* vace. That is, one VACE of the torus is at (1, 0) and the external VACE is at (2, 0). The angle between the VACE at (1, 0) and the VACE in the torus used in the above force calculation is 150 degrees with the coordinate (0, 0) at defining the point about which this angle is measured. Then the coordinate for the VACE used in the calculation is given by x2 = 1 * cos(150) = -0.866025 y2 = 1 * sin(150) = 0.5 And with the external VACE at x1 = 2 y1 = 0 The distance between the 2 VACEs is d = sqrt((2 + 0.866025)^2 + (0.5)^2) = 2.9093 Now, d * sin(beta) = 1 * sin(150) = 0.5 so beta = arcsin(0.5 / 2.9093) = 9.896 Since alpha = theta + beta - 90, we get alpha = 69.896 degrees. With epsilon = beta - alpha, we have epsilon = -60 degrees. Well, that's how I calculated the force... Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 17 20:02:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA32547; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:00:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990617183249.201744d4@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:32:49 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: New "simple" magnetics question In-Reply-To: <1650b06c.249aeac9@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0HfsL.0.My7.wORQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10894 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken and all, At 08:20 PM 6/17/99 EDT, you wrote: >Hello all, > My latest thoughts for a free energy machine boil down to a simple >magnetics issue. It is as follows: > Suppose there is a uniform field in space B0. I take an electromagnet >(M1) with a current and a resultant field at its center: -B1 and place it in >the field B0 so the field near the center of M1 is B0-B1, where the >magnitude of B1 is less than the mag of B0. Now I uniformly decrease B0 and >B1 to zero at the same time so that the ratio of B0 and B1 remains constant. >The question is, as I decrease the current in the electromagnet to zero, will >I need to add energy or will the process yield energy? If the process >yields energy will it be more than the 1/2 L I * I that I had to put into >the electromagnet originally. (Energy considerations of B0 are not >important). > It turns out that if the answer is that it yields energy instead of >requiring energy, prospects for a overunity machine look quite good. > I vote that you need to supply less energy from the supply than with no external B field. When you charge an inductor, you are supplying less power than with a pure resistive load, but are supplying energy to the field. If now you add an opposing field, this EMF adds to the supply, so the supply adds more energy. If you then remove the opposing field, the EMF opposes the supply, so it supplies less power during the change. I assume this would still hold during the continuous discharge case you describe. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 17 23:36:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA14433; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:36:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:36:00 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990617220857.238fe1a2@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:08:57 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? In-Reply-To: <3769B711.A9F158F0@servtech.com> References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2PqnZ3.0.QX3.GZUQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10895 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob and all, At 11:03 PM 6/17/99 -0400, you wrote: > > Bob Dave > 0 0.000 0 > 10 -.649 0.66 > 20 -1.068 1.05 > 30 -1.214 1.22 > 40 -1.172 1.17 > 50 -1.035 1.03 > 60 -.865 0.84 > 70 -.693 0.68 > 80 -.536 0.55 > 90 -.399 0.42 >100 -.285 0.30 >110 -.193 0.14 >120 -.123 -0.02 >130 -0.071 -0.12 >140 -0.036 -0.17 >150 -0.015 -0.20 >160 -0.004 -0.12 >170 -0.000 -0.09 >180 0.0 0.0 > I think your calculations are right, as well as understanding the setup! I just used the function 3cos(alpha)cos(beta)-2cos(epsilon), so had a positive result. Both terms are + for theta (rotation of the toroid) between 0 and 180 deg. I measured the angle alpha with the fixed VACE with a protractor and ruler, and could have been off a degree or so. This doesn't make much difference with cos(alpha), but it does for beta which is zero at about theta=60 deg. Cos(epsilon) is given directly as epsilon = 90 deg. -theta, so there is no error in the second term. The 2 terms are about equal for theta >110 deg., so the difference shows any error. I remeasured and found for >110 deg, the result could be zero within my graph measurements. So sorry for the noisy data. So it still seems either your VACE toroid will rotate, or there is something missing from the Ampere force? I wonder if there is a force not directed between the elements? I plan still on trying a current loop, which seems to be what the VACE toroid is. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 18 04:27:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA32013; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:26:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:26:33 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:33:10 +0200 Message-Id: <199906181133.NAA03339@ns.b.vossnet.de> X-Sender: leoguitar@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 2 (High) To: eric@phact.org From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: PSItron N-machine, N-machine theory.... Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id EAA31996 Resent-Message-ID: <"vwig11.0.6q7.epYQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10896 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >-- Do you know if that company is still making FE machines? >BTW: I had a few emails with Bruce DePalma and found him to be very abusive. > PSITRON has put about 75.000 to 100.000 US$ into their machines and just got more and more from 95 and 105 % efficiency into direction 100 % the more money they put into it ! They did write a very good report in 1987, why an N-machine does not work overunity and just works according to normal theory. It was published in the German magazine: "Raum & Zeit" in 1987 Aug/Setp. Issue, 6. Jahrgang. They have stopped working on it from then on. Their last 5 KWatt machine still exists, is very nice and professional built and can be demonstrated, but it is under unity. They also pretty much convinced Bruce de Palma, that his theory was nonsense... but he did not admit this publically. When I myself visited dePalma in August 1987 I saw, that he used the money he got from sponsors for a very good lifestyle in his house in Santa Barbara but did not get his machine to run overunity. >From then on I believed, that the N-machine theory can not go overunity. Mr. Preiss now came up with new ideas how a drag free N-machine could work, but now after discussing it with the guys from PSItrion I think, that he also has some flaws in it. I will still discuss a few ideas with him, we will see, what will come out of it. With dePalma type N-machines, the induction voltage is induced inside the brushes and the outer conductor loop, due to the air magnetic back-field (closed magnetic flux lines) ! Not inside the disc, where there is NO relative movement between magnet and conductor (disc) ! Otherwise Faraday´s law of induction would be violated. So also dePalma was wrong with his basic concept and his "incremental overunity effects" were nothing more than differential negative resistance effects of the brushes, when the huge DC current was outputed under load conditions... He never got any machine run really overunity, where the total electrical input was lower than the total electrical output ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann WEB-Site: www.harti.com www.ccard.net email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 18 04:50:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA05926; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:50:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:50:12 -0700 Message-ID: <376A36CC.87BAFAAB@servtech.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:08:44 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990617220857.238fe1a2@earthlink.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------04BEE03A96BD71D4886E965F" Resent-Message-ID: <"e9bGr2.0.US1.q9ZQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10897 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --------------04BEE03A96BD71D4886E965F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Dameron wrote: > > So sorry for the noisy data. > Not a problem.... I think that's why we're all here. You check me, I check you and eventually we'll get to something that really works (or at least we'll all learn something....) > > So it still seems either your VACE toroid will rotate, or there is > something missing from the Ampere force? I wonder if there is a force not > directed between the elements? I plan still on trying a current loop, which > seems to be what the VACE toroid is. > -Dave I have been thinking that the VACEs will be too weak to test this out. And that we'll have to do as you suggest and use real Ampere current elements. That is, the torus of VACEs get replaced with a ring carrying a "real" current. Also, the external VACE might be replaced by a "real" current. I have a particular design in mind. The ring carries a current. Outside the ring you have wires in the same plane as the ring and carrying current radially toward the ring. The question is where does the current go when it gets close the outer edge of the ring. I am looking at the current splitting and going "up" and "down" in the z-axis direction, hoping that the "up" part will cancel with the "down" part to leave only the radial current effecting the ring. But I need to do the calculations. The ring is in the xy-plane. So, you are essentually making a large, square cross-section coil in which you put the ring. I I -<----^ ^------->--- I | | --->---| o o |--<------ | ring | I \|/ \|/ ---<--- I I ---->---- This is a cross section. You see a current coming in from the left and from the right. Then they split and go up and down. The "o" s show the cross section of the ring in the "square: coil. The up and down part should be long so the return current is further away than the radial current coming in. Bob Gray --------------04BEE03A96BD71D4886E965F Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Dave Dameron wrote:

 
So sorry for the noisy data.
 
Not a problem....  I think that's why we're all here.  You check me, I check you and
eventually we'll get to something that really works (or at least we'll all learn something....)
 
So it still seems either your VACE toroid will rotate, or there is
something missing from the Ampere force? I wonder if there is a force not
directed between the elements? I plan still on trying a current loop, which
seems to be what the VACE toroid is.
-Dave
I have been thinking that the VACEs will be too weak to test this out.  And that
we'll have to do as you suggest and use real Ampere current elements.  That is, the
torus of VACEs get replaced with a ring carrying a "real" current.  Also, the external
VACE might be replaced by a "real" current.

I have a particular design in mind.

The ring carries a current.  Outside the ring you have wires in the same plane as
the ring and carrying current radially toward the ring.  The question is where
does the current go when it gets close the outer edge of the ring.  I am looking
at the current splitting and going "up" and "down" in the z-axis direction, hoping
that the "up" part will cancel with the "down" part to leave only the radial current
effecting the ring. But I need to do the calculations.  The ring is in the xy-plane.

So, you are essentually making a large, square cross-section coil in which you put
the ring.

      I              I
 -<----^            ^------->---
   I   |            |
--->---| o        o |--<------
       |   ring     |    I
      \|/          \|/
---<--- I          I ---->----

This is a cross section. You see a current coming
in from the left and from the right.  Then they
split and go up and down.  The "o" s show the
cross section of the ring in the "square: coil.
The up and down part should be long so  the return
current is further away than the radial current
coming in.

Bob Gray --------------04BEE03A96BD71D4886E965F-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 18 08:29:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA15262; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:29:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:29:07 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:25:02 EDT Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Resent-Message-ID: <"FwcZQ3.0.Jk3.2NcQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10898 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/17/99 6:46:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rwgray@servtech.com writes: << I have just added an interactive web page which calculates the net "relative" torque on a VACE torus due to a single "external" VACE. Try it out at http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/VACE/calc2/ct.html As far as I can tell, there is a net torque. But I am still expecting a calculation mistake to appear.... After all, we all know this can't work. ;) Bob Gray >> Impressive page, but on my browser (AOL, I think some version of IE) no calculation results are ever displayed, it just goes back to the same page. I'm not sure it is clear that if the calculations are correct in showing a net torque, there will be a net torque if the VACE/VACE toroid is built. We are counting on the VACEs behaving like real current elements. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 18 09:29:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08879; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:29:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:29:31 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:24:39 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:29:15 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:40:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? In-reply-to: <3769A914.E9CDEA7A@servtech.com> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2096ZXYYHQLI6 X400-MTS-identifier: [;93422181609991/3809654@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"8wpBx3.0.eA2.hFdQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10899 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob, If your formula is correct, and there aren't any unaccounted for influences: Since theta is just the number of measuring points I left it at default. Magnitude was left initially constant, it would just be a multiplier later on once we found the best combination for the other values. I then just looked at varying the distance and radius. No matter what the radius was, the closer the distance the better. I settled on .1 to be as close as reasonable in most home hobbiest lab setups. Then I did a binary search on the radius values until I maximized the result, at about 13.9, again within the limitations of a hobbiest. I don't know the units you are using for radius, I also don't know what unit of torque your using, or if it would be enough to overcome any friction in the device. I was able to get a positive torque of up to 6.2331, then of course you could scale this up by increasing your magnitude. Bill webriggs@concentric.net I came up with a radius of 13.9 of whatever unit you were assuming in your equations. (Which was?) I also don't know what unit of torque your using, or if it would be enough to overcome any friction in the device. >I have just added an interactive web page which >calculates the net "relative" torque on a VACE torus >due to a single "external" VACE. >Try it out at >http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/VACE/calc2/ct.html >As far as I can tell, there is a net torque. But I am still expecting >a calculation mistake to appear.... After all, we all know this can't work. ;) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 18 09:54:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA19585; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:54:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:54:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990618082819.264700ce@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:28:19 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? In-Reply-To: <376A36CC.87BAFAAB@servtech.com> References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990617220857.238fe1a2@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jQbto1.0.wn4.fcdQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10900 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob and all, At 08:08 AM 6/18/99 -0400, you wrote: >I have been thinking that the VACEs will be too weak to test this out. And >that >we'll have to do as you suggest and use real Ampere current elements. That is, >the >torus of VACEs get replaced with a ring carrying a "real" current. Also, the >external >VACE might be replaced by a "real" current. I still wonder why the VACE forces are so much less than "real" current forces. The ferromagnetic currents still are in loops, but I believe even in a loop, an edge or segment can be isolated force wise. Like in your design below. Have you read any of Ampere's experiments, who also used closed circuits? > >I have a particular design in mind. > >The ring carries a current. Outside the ring you have wires in the same plane >as >the ring and carrying current radially toward the ring. The question is where >does the current go when it gets close the outer edge of the ring. I am >looking >at the current splitting and going "up" and "down" in the z-axis direction, >hoping >that the "up" part will cancel with the "down" part to leave only the radial >current >effecting the ring. But I need to do the calculations. The ring is in the >xy-plane. > >So, you are essentually making a large, square cross-section coil in which you >put >the ring. > > I I > -<----^ ^------->--- > I | | >--->---| o o |--<------ > | ring | I > \|/ \|/ >---<--- I I ---->---- > Yes, this looks good. I am looking at torsion springs to first feed current into the ring. Interesting that the square coil, if duplicated 360 deg. around the ring, becomes 2 electromagnetic toroids (upper and lower). These 2 VACE elements are fed so the virtual currents oppose and the ring is placed in the plane where the 2 toroids meet, in the bore. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 18 14:30:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04566; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:30:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:30:06 -0700 Message-ID: <376ABA92.782A5F12@harti.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:30:58 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: http://www.overunity.com/zaev/paper34.htm X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AwPMn1.0.E71.TfhQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10901 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A Thermodynamic Cycle and Thermo-electric Converter utilising the Magneto-calorific Effect is now online at: http://www.overunity.com/zaev/paper34.htm from Remi Cornwall. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 18 14:40:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA09413; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:40:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:40:29 -0700 Message-ID: <376AC116.F9EDAB99@servtech.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:58:46 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990617220857.238fe1a2@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990618082819.264700ce@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HRGzE2.0.mI2.BphQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10902 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave Dameron wrote: > > I still wonder why the VACE forces are so much less than "real" current > forces. I wonder as well. > > The ferromagnetic currents still are in loops, but I believe even in a > loop, an edge or segment can be isolated force wise. Like in your design > below. Have you read any of Ampere's experiments, who also used closed > circuits? Only what is in Graneaus' books. > > > > > > > > I I > > -<----^ ^------->--- > > I | | > >--->---| o o |--<------ > > | ring | I > > \|/ \|/ > >---<--- I I ---->---- > > > Yes, this looks good. I am looking at torsion springs to first feed current > into the ring. I don't think this is as good as I thought this morning.... After a quick look at the equations, we need the UP and DOWN currents to be reversed from what I showed. Otherwise the force due to the up and down part are opposed to the inward radial current. I don't see how to wire this. All the current would then come to a point. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 18 14:45:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12151; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:44:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:44:48 -0700 Message-ID: <376AC229.729CB78F@servtech.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:03:21 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kDqip2.0.lz2.GthQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10903 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keasy@aol.com wrote: > Impressive page, but on my browser (AOL, I think some version of IE) no > calculation results are ever displayed, it just goes back to the same page. I am sorry to hear this. I am using Dynamics HTML and JAVA script to do the calculation and to create the "result" web page. I tried this on IE I have and Netscape and they worked. I don't know what to tell you that will make it work for you. > > I'm not sure it is clear that if the calculations are correct in showing a > net torque, there will be a net torque if the VACE/VACE toroid is built. We > are counting on the VACEs behaving like real current elements. > > Ken > Keasy@aol.com I agree.... we don't *know*. This is why Phipp's experiments with VACEs (and other people's experiments) are important. We need to know if VACEs actually follow the angular part of Ampere's force equation. I am still looking into having some VACEs made. I think its going to be too expensive for me.... But I'll let you know. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 18 14:52:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA16370; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:52:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:52:36 -0700 Message-ID: <376AC3F9.F6AD0BCB@servtech.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:11:05 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yWAgD1.0.Q_3.Z-hQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10904 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: > Bob, > > If your formula is correct, and there aren't any unaccounted for influences: > > Since theta is just the number of measuring points I left it at default. > > Magnitude was left initially constant, it would just be a multiplier later on > once we found the best combination for the other values. > > I then just looked at varying the distance and radius. > > No matter what the radius was, the closer the distance the better. I settled > on .1 to be as close as reasonable in most home hobbiest lab setups. > > Then I did a binary search on the radius values until I maximized the result, > at about 13.9, again within the limitations of a hobbiest. > Good work... > > I don't know the units you are using for radius, I also don't know what unit > of torque your using, or if it would be enough to overcome any friction in > the device. > I am not using any units. When you enter the radius of the torus, the "units" are one unit of length. It could be "cm" or "yards".... At this point, since I don't know what units and magnitudes to assign to the VACE currents, we can only determine the angular behaviour of the device. And the angular behaviour seems to point toward a net torque. How big that torque is (what units) I don't know. So I don't know if it will every overcome friction. Phipp's results seemed to indicate that the VACEs do not follow the 1/r^2 part of Ampere's equation. I think it was more like 1/r^5 or so. (I don't have his paper in fornt of me.) But this doesn't change whether or not there is a net torque.... > > I was able to get a positive torque of up to 6.2331, then of course you could > scale this up by increasing your magnitude. > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 18 19:20:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA03663; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:20:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:20:27 -0700 Message-ID: <376B02BC.B3AA96B4@servtech.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 22:38:53 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE FE motor?? References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990617220857.238fe1a2@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990618082819.264700ce@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6toG3.0.7v.hvlQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10905 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have updated my VACE web pages with: * New calculation program for tabulating the Ampere force on the VACE torus. It now prints the (x, y) coordinates and the distance between the 2 VACEs. * Proof that for any force on the right hand side of the torus, the mirror force on the left hand side is just its negative. (So we only need to consider the forces and torques on the right hand side of the torus. If the torques on the right sum to a non-zero number then the overall torque on the torus is just twice this number. Again, not zero.) http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/VACE/vace01.html I am still not willing to declare "victory" until more people confirm the calculations and, the most important proof of them all, experimentation is done to confirm the calculations. The weakest point, as I see it, is whether or not 2 VACEs really experience a force on one another with the angular relationship given by Ampere's equation. Phipp's paper *seems* to say "yes", but I'd like to see several more tests done. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 18 21:34:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA09743; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:33:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:33:54 -0700 Message-ID: <376AF3DB.7D53@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:35:23 -0400 From: Alik Shereshevsky Reply-To: alik@intergate.bc.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Patents References: <376ABA92.782A5F12@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WqctS3.0.3O2.osnQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10906 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harold Puthoff appears to have patented a scalar communicator: 5,845,220 The conical-coil levitator patent (How Wachspress) 4,874,346 (it may be of interest to VACE experimenters since it disscuses interaction between toroidal coils and also longitudinal forces between currents). And here is a real weird one (sounds a little bit like radionics): 5,905,265 A neat paper : "On the field of a torus and the role of vector potential" N.J.Carron, Am J. Phys. Aug 95 Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 19 07:06:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA22383; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 07:06:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 07:06:16 -0700 From: "Peter Fred" To: "Alik Shereshevsky" Subject: Producing antigravity in the laboratory using heat and sphericity Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:59:54 -0400 Message-ID: <000001beb992$d7cc3240$b48eadd1@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"KTcAL.0.eT5.OFwQt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10907 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am trying to find someone to replicate my ~3.7 % decrease and 0.5 % increase of a 0.97 kg test mass using a design prompted by my alternate or heat-related gravity theory. The theory and my experiments are posted at http://ww4.choice.net/~pbfred/ . If anyone is interested in trying to replicate my work, please email me. Peter Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 21 02:32:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA28878; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 02:32:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 02:32:03 -0700 Message-ID: <376DFEA7.4C2A2C42@harti.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:58:15 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , CHRIS KUELZOW , Free Energy Subject: Incremental overunity success with your Newman machine...!? X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <376C0007.D59A5A6@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"t6Bpo3.0.337.JQWRt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10908 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: CHRIS KUELZOW schrieb: > > Hello All, > > FYI some new test data. Please visit > http://members.home.net/ckuelzow/ > > Regards > Chris Kuelzow Hi Chris, see: http://members.home.net/ckuelzow/image10B.JPG you probably did not realize, that you already have achieved an incremental overunity success ! Compare your results for the 3 runs ! 1st run without any load had 18.74 Watts of input power and also your 2 other runs with loads ! No increasing input power ! So as you draw 1.7 and 2.2 milli HP mechanical load from your machine, your electrical input power DOES NOT RISE !! Maybe your input amperemeter is not good enough to show the real values, but I suggest you should try my low pass filter input current measurement setup. Then you can really see, if the input current changes due to loads on the mechanical side. Normally Newman motors behave according to normal theory, that when you load them mechanically, they also draw more input current. But maybe there is some lag between it , when you use these multiple commutator breaks in series as you used them. Tips: Keep on doing some more tests with this configuration and increase the mechanical load onto the rotor and see, how much the input power raises ! Try to use my lowpassfilter proposal for measuring the input current correctly. Can you increase RPM in any way at this voltage ? 130 RPM is a little slow. Adjust your commutator on/off pulse period or fire/rotor-phase angle... Maybe just use only half of your coils, so every second coil gets the doubled voltage ! That would help to get more RPM, if you have no higher HV power supply ! A Newman motor runs best at 5 to 10 mA input current with such small wire size. Good luck ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 21 12:31:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA31762; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:30:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:30:31 -0700 Message-ID: <376E8F07.3FA7344C@teleweb.at> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:14:15 +0200 From: Preiss X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [de]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: N-Effect "New Update" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qwubx3.0.Bm7.MBfRt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10909 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi to everyone! A new update appeared on my page (http://members.teleweb.at/preiss). Also i spoke with people from PSitron. They told me there theory. It is a different to my theorie, because PSitron thought, that the voltage will be inducted outside the machine. They also have a math. formula (I don't know this formula) but I think it will be the same as described in my update2. In my next update (hope I can fix it on next weekend), I will explain the theorie from PSitron - and I will show you some impossible things with this theorie. Also I will show a modified N-Machine to prove the two different theories and to check which theorie is right. Best regards, Thomas From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 21 13:20:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA17908; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:19:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:19:15 -0700 Message-ID: <376E9E71.5327F5C1@harti.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:20:01 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: N-Effect "New Update" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <376E8F07.3FA7344C@teleweb.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a7FjC1.0.jN4.2vfRt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10910 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Preiss schrieb: > > Hi to everyone! > > A new update appeared on my page (http://members.teleweb.at/preiss). The exact URL is: http://members.teleweb.at/preiss/update2.html Go to: http://translator.go.com/ for an english translation or any other language. Just copy the upper URL into the translator box and you will get an automatic translation ! The translation is pretty good ! > > Best regards, > Thomas Thanks Thomas for the update. I will study it now too. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 21 14:00:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA01882; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:59:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:59:37 -0700 Message-ID: <376EA765.B85E72B1@harti.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:58:13 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: N-Effect "New Update" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <376E8F07.3FA7344C@teleweb.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EvmmQ2.0.HT.vUgRt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10911 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, from the PSItron paper I want to add, that the induction voltage follows exactly the following formular: Vind= - f x phi = -f x B x A f= revolution per second phi= magnetic flux inside the disc ring area A This is in addition to the presented formular at: http://members.teleweb.at/preiss/Image41.gif PSItron confirmed that their machine worked exactly to this formular and also the dePalma and Trombley- Kahn machine worked according to this formular. Inside this update2: http://members.teleweb.at/preiss/update2.html it is still claimed, that the N-machine power generating effect is drag free, which PSItron thinks, is not the case, cause the air flux field is reduced, if current is drawn from the machine. Lenz law unfortunately at action ! Regards, Stefan. Preiss schrieb: > > Hi to everyone! > > A new update appeared on my page (http://members.teleweb.at/preiss). The exact URL is: http://members.teleweb.at/preiss/update2.html Go to: http://translator.go.com/ for an english translation or any other language. Just copy the upper URL into the translator box and you will get an automatic translation ! The translation is pretty good ! > > Best regards, > Thomas Thanks Thomas for the update. I will study it now too. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 21 19:32:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA00139; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:32:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:32:05 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:31:10 EDT Subject: Looking for Investor in NW USA To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"48O5j3.0.02.aMlRt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10912 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am currently looking for an investor/inventor to help me finance/build my prototype in Seattle... All preliminary tests are done... Looks very promising... Local investor or someone that can travel here so that I can meet with personally.... Thankyou, Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 21 21:36:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA09177; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:35:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:35:41 -0700 From: "Harvey Norris" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Old Hat Syndrome Message-Id: <930026117.15800.625@excite.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:35:17 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 207.220.167.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"R8_b61.0.HF2.TAnRt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10913 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Youve heard it before and an old man cant ever get away from his karma. Just add it to the list. How are the series and parallel resonant circuits connected together? They are two separate circuits in their entirety. The Binary Resonant System is configured in the formation of a switch. When the switch is in a open position two series resonant circuits that are 180 degrees out of phase , or backwards with respect to one another. Essentially they are mirror images of each other or phase conjugates. This has nothing to do with the backwards time hypothesis deduced as an explanation of OPTICAL or lightwave phenomenon where a reflection uses the same pathway on a return journey where theorists have speculated that in order to explain some effects the speculation is made that the return signal is going backwards in time to explain Schrodingers cat paradox. However it is analogous. It is because of the fact that so few people understand the difference between series and parallel resonance that is necessary to back to kindergarten to explain this discovery. Series resonance gives a rise of voltage within the elements of the inductor and capacitor AGAINST each other. When a meter is placed across either of these elements, the rise of voltage with respect to its input is shown, which is Q times the input. The Q of my prototype is 15 which means that I will record 15 times the input voltage when I place the meter across either the coil OR capacitor. However if I place the meter ACROSS both of these in series, I will only record the actual voltage of the source voltage. The voltage rise that occurs only exists WITHIN each element and in OPPOSITION. That is why only the source voltage is read when the meter is connected across both. As such I have reffered to this as an UNOBVIOUS voltage. When the meter reads this higher than input voltage it is connected from the midpoint, or spot btween the coil and capacitor and EITHER end. Thus there are two ways to measure this resonant rise of voltage. The voltage across the coil is in a opposite direction from that of the cap which is why they are said to be in opposition. In parallel resonance or the often named TANK circuit instead of the cap and coil being in SERIES they are in PARALLEL. Assuming a preschool knowledge that the two quantities can resonate by having equal reactances the condition then shows something entirely different. Instead of a voltage rise beyond the input taking place an amperage rise exists in its place. The meter measuring amperage conduction across each element is in excess of the input amperage, but each amperage itself is going in OPPOSITE directions so that the Kirchoff junction rule still applies at each node or junction. The AMOUNT of amperage into the junction is the same that leaves on the branches. In order to simplify things it is not mentioned that the differences of these amperages represents the actual input amperage. Now as any schoolboy knows power is amperage times voltage. If both series and parallel resonance existed at the same time that would mean that more energy existed inside than was inputed which is impossible. AS such that circuit is impossible. However a special circuit was discovered where a open position switch yeilds the nonconduction across the switch where the voltage rises to TWICE the value that the series resonant value normally assumes.This is the situation when the midpoints of TWO opposite series or conjugate mirror 180 degree phases are allowed to interact. When that voltage causes an arc or short to form between them it represents the closing of the switch. On the closing of the switch represented by the arc itself the whole circuit becomes an entirely different configuration. It then becomes a special heretofore unknown PARALLEL resonant condition where TWICE the AMPERAGE exists across this midpoint path than on either side alone. This is two current paths (inductive and capacitive sharing a common pathways from opposite directions) that add to unity. Because no voltage rise exists in the twin tank circuit the arc then extinguishes or automatically quenches which puts the circuit back in a open switch position which in turn reinstitutes a voltage rise starting the whole process over again. It is found that these oscillations occur with such rapidity the electrons inside the coil never have time to reach the end of the wire because the oscillation far exceeds the typical 1/4 wavelength value used in tesla coils. In fact the natural quenching of the arc because of voltage drop circumvents the normal special measures such as a rotary arc gap that must be used in tesla coils of appreciable power. In fact what I have just described will more than likely result in a new generation of tesla coil technique. Harvich Demetrious Norrisky _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 21 23:52:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA16829; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:52:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:52:04 -0700 Message-ID: <376F1818.1AA27EF8@telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:59:04 -0500 From: Don Adams Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Pictures On The Radio References: <376E8F07.3FA7344C@teleweb.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o6-qM3.0.d64.IApRt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10914 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: By Tristan Chytroschek BBC News Science 6-20-99 A new way to transmit pictures has been developed that could hugely cut the cost of sending information around the world. The same technology used to transmit shortwave radio signals could be used to send images without the need for expensive cables or satellites. High-frequency radio waves can be picked up virtually anywhere in the world with a relatively cheap radio set, as everyone who listens to the BBC World Service on shortwave knows. But radio waves that can carry sound and voice can also carry data. This has been exploited by engineers working for the British Defense Evaluation and Research Agency and for Lancaster University in the UK, who have developed a system that connects a digital camera to a radio transmitter. Static problems Pictures taken with the camera are translated into electrical signals and then transmitted via radio without the need for expensive landlines or satellites. But there is one problem - static. The interference that often makes it impossible to listen to radio transmissions. The scientists faced the same problem when they tried to transmit their pictures, but they say they can separate the signal from the background noise. "We've come up with a special unique coding technique that actually gives enough protection to the data, so that when it's passed over this quite distortive medium, we can still get images out at the other end," said scientist Paul Arthur. They have successfully tested this system by sending pictures over a distance of 80 kilometres and the nature of shortwave radio means it is actually simpler to transmit signals over much longer distances. This system could be used to transmit x-ray photographs between hospitals, send electronic books to schools or simply as a fax machine without a telephone network. For many people living in remote areas, pictures on the radio could open a whole new window to the world. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 22 07:40:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA20850; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:39:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:39:06 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bebcbc$cf354180$96d2989e@callaghansystems.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: "David Callaghan" From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Producing antigravity in the laboratory using heat and sphericity Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:54:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"JNDuY.0.e55.A0wRt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10915 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Peter I have downloaded your entire site for off-line viewing. I have only skipped through it at the moment, but I intend to go through it thoroughly later. Your site doesn't seem to have any contradictory content. Can you think of any observable phenomena or thought experiments that contradict your theory? Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk -----Original Message----- From: Peter Fred To: Alik Shereshevsky Date: Saturday 19 June 1999 03:15 Subject: Producing antigravity in the laboratory using heat and sphericity >I am trying to find someone to replicate my ~3.7 % decrease and 0.5 % >increase of a 0.97 kg test mass using a design prompted by my alternate or >heat-related gravity theory. > >The theory and my experiments are posted at http://ww4.choice.net/~pbfred/ . >If anyone is interested in trying to replicate my work, please email me. > > >Peter Fred > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 22 08:54:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA15665; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:53:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:53:01 -0700 From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:51:46 EDT Subject: Re: Looking for Investor in NW USA To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Resent-Message-ID: <"CWrxa.0.Pq3.P5xRt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10916 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/21/99 7:34:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Grod123456@AOL.COM writes: << am currently looking for an investor/inventor to help me finance/build my prototype in Seattle... All preliminary tests are done... Looks very promising... Local investor or someone that can travel here so that I can meet with personally.... Thankyou, Rod >> Hi What are you making a prototype of? And how much money are you looking for?? Ron Hammar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 22 09:49:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA04449; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:46:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:46:33 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:42:10 EDT Subject: Re: Looking for Investor in NW USA To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"YC1kK3.0.Q51.etxRt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10917 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My prototype is of a gravity engine. I found a way for gravity to 'push' water uphill in a never ending loop. The design is quite simple. When anyone sees it they probably go 'duh'. I've got 2 cylinders complete and working as plan. I need 10 more. The prototype is quite small... each cylinder is only about 6 inches long by 2 inches diameter. The actual model that will run a house will be around 18" long by 10"diam cylinders and will stand about 6 or 7 feet tall by 3 feet wide by 1 foot deep. On my prototype, I'm not going to hook a generator to it because I don't have to prove that part. All I need to do is get the model turning on its own. Also, one point to make, I'll be able to stop this and when I let go, it will start turning again. This is not based on momentum whatsoever. I will need an additional $2k to $5k to finish developing the product and when completed and successful, I will offer the initial investor up to 40% ownership for somewhere around $50k. ONLY THE PERSON THAT HELPS ME IN THE EARLY STAGES!!! After that, well, we'll let the professionals figure out how much its worth :) If you would like to discuss this in detail please let me know... And for all the negative people out there... Don't shoot this idea or any idea down before you know the details... Unless your the individual that DOES know everything, maybe you can learn something new from time to time. Take care and good luck to all the other inventors/experimenters out there...Someone maybe closer to the answer than we think... Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 22 13:38:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA06447; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <376F54FE.9A18A950@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:18:54 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Pictures On The Radio References: <376E8F07.3FA7344C@teleweb.at> <376F1818.1AA27EF8@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TCbEr2.0.Ya1.JF_Rt"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10918 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am very impressed. It appears that scientists are discovered "the modem", with error correction of course. :) Maybe the press release was accidentally embargoed for some 20-30 years. Forgive me for this little joke. I am sure that an ordinary modem is not suitable for SW transmission. Maybe by this invention SW would live its second golden age. In principle one could send transmit TV signals on SW if he/she dont care "minutes per frame" rate. :). hamdi ucar > > By Tristan Chytroschek > BBC News Science > 6-20-99 > > A new way to transmit pictures has been developed that could > hugely cut the cost of sending information around the world. [snip] > But radio waves that can carry sound and voice can also carry > data. > This has been exploited by engineers working for the British > Defense Evaluation and Research Agency and for Lancaster > University in the UK, who have developed a system that > connects a digital camera to a radio transmitter. > [snip] > "We've come up with a special unique coding technique that actually > gives enough protection to the data, so that when it's passed > over this quite distortive medium, we can still get images out at > the other end," said scientist Paul Arthur. > > They have successfully tested this system by sending pictures over a > distance of 80 kilometres and the nature of shortwave radio > means it is actually simpler to transmit signals over much longer > distances. > [snip] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 22 14:23:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA15297; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:22:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:22:14 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:33:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Looking for Investor in NW USA Message-ID: <19990622.170144.133.0.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-51,53 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"cZP6A.0.wk3.6w_Rt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10919 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is this similar to the one George Wiseman has designed? http://www.eagle-research.com/fenergy/gravity.html Dave On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:42:10 EDT Grod123456@aol.com writes: > My prototype is of a gravity engine. I found a way for gravity to > 'push' > water uphill in a never ending loop. The design is quite simple. > When > anyone sees it they probably go 'duh'. I've got 2 cylinders > complete and > working as plan. I need 10 more. The prototype is quite small... > each > cylinder is only about 6 inches long by 2 inches diameter. The > actual model > that will run a house will be around 18" long by 10"diam > cylinders > and will stand about 6 or 7 feet tall by 3 feet wide by 1 foot deep. > On my > prototype, I'm not going to hook a generator to it because I don't > have to > prove that part. All I need to do is get the model turning on its > own. Also, > one point to make, I'll be able to stop this and when I let go, it > will start > turning again. This is not based on momentum whatsoever. I will > need an > additional $2k to $5k to finish developing the product and when > completed and > successful, I will offer the initial investor up to 40% ownership > for > somewhere around $50k. ONLY THE PERSON THAT HELPS ME IN THE EARLY > STAGES!!! > After that, well, we'll let the professionals figure out how much > its worth :) > If you would like to discuss this in detail please let me know... > And for all the negative people out there... Don't shoot this idea > or any > idea down before you know the details... Unless your the individual > that DOES > know everything, maybe you can learn something new from time to > time. > Take care and good luck to all the other inventors/experimenters out > > there...Someone maybe closer to the answer than we think... > Rod > ============================================ dave.tingley@juno.com http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/3992/dt.html The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 22 14:58:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA32042; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:57:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:57:39 -0700 Message-ID: <377006BB.8D2C810C@bway.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:57:15 -0400 From: Caigan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: donadams@telusplanet.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Pictures On The Radio References: <376E8F07.3FA7344C@teleweb.at> <376F1818.1AA27EF8@telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mgf_H1.0.Wq7.IR0St"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10920 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Don Adams wrote: > > By Tristan Chytroschek > BBC News Science > 6-20-99 > > A new way to transmit pictures has been developed that could > hugely cut the cost of sending information around the world. > > The same technology used to transmit shortwave radio signals > could be used to send images without the need for expensive cables > or satellites. Sounds like 'slow-scan TV'/SSTV, which radio amateurs have been employing for some time. Here's a URL with a bit more info: http://www.openstore.com/yra/sstv.html --Khem Caigan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 22 15:07:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03029; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:06:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:06:20 -0700 Message-ID: <377008D3.1D47FB46@bway.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:06:11 -0400 From: Caigan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Pictures On The Radio References: <376E8F07.3FA7344C@teleweb.at> <376F1818.1AA27EF8@telusplanet.net> <377006BB.8D2C810C@bway.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"59AR73.0.El.SZ0St"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10921 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Caigan wrote: > > Sounds like 'slow-scan TV'/SSTV, which radio amateurs have been > employing for some time. Here's a URL with a bit more info: > http://www.openstore.com/yra/sstv.html Here's a MUCH BETTER URL re: SSTV: http://kitel.co.kr/~hl2dnz/sstv.htm Lots o' Links, --Khem Caigan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 22 15:33:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA20815; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:32:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:32:56 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:22:09 -1000 Subject: Re: Looking for Investor in NW USA From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199906221832.SM00213@[192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"f9EjY.0.255.Ny0St"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10922 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rod - These two statements: > I've got 2 cylinders complete and > working as plan. and ... > All I need to do is get the model turning on its own. ...seem to be somewhat at odds with each other. Do you or do you not have an actual working model that *does* turn on its own and demonstrate obvious performance that cannot be explained by momentum and so forth? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 22 19:51:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA19890; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:50:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:50:40 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:44:09 EDT Subject: Re: Looking for Investor in NW USA To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"llHfv3.0.hs4.0k4St"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10923 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Rick, No I do not have a model that turns on its own because it needs 12 cylinders not 2... Thats why I am asking for help. Each 'pair' work together and independently of the other pairs but need the others to make a complete rotation... However, what the 2 do, lift water about 2 feet and when I turn them 180 degrees they lift water 2 feet again... they refill each other back and forth... but momentum will not rotate them 180 degrees to do this on their own...Plus I don't want to rely on momentum because once I put a load on them, it will probably negate it. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 22 21:11:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA17070; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:11:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:11:11 -0700 X-Sender: knuke@mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Pictures On The Radio Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:16:05 -0400 Message-ID: <19990623041605343.AAE247@mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"8ZlpV2.0.WA4.Vv5St"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10924 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hamdi wrote: >I am very impressed. It appears that scientists are discovered "the modem", >with error correction of course. :) > >Maybe the press release was accidentally embargoed for some 20-30 years. > > >Forgive me for this little joke. I am sure that an ordinary modem is not >suitable for SW transmission. Maybe by this invention SW would live its >second golden age. In principle one could send transmit TV signals on SW >if he/she dont care "minutes per frame" rate. :). > >hamdi ucar Digital communications and packet switching networks run by volunteer ham radio operators have been around for almost 2 decades now that I know of. There was work done on packet switching field radio/telephone networks for the military going back to the Vietnam war era. I made my first free long distance call from Santiago, Chile to Indiana in 1969, although the technology at that time was strictly a manual patch to a telephone on the receiving end and it was all analog. We could have had free long distance international telephones many years ago. Want to venture a guess as to why we don't have them? :-) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 22 22:34:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA08609; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:33:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:33:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990622210600.2397eff8@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:06:00 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: VACE FE motor, theory + experiments. In-Reply-To: <376AC116.F9EDAB99@servtech.com> References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990617220857.238fe1a2@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990618082819.264700ce@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qON_e3.0.Q62.s67St"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10925 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob and all, At 05:58 PM 6/18/99 -0400, you wrote: > >> > I I >> > -<----^ ^------->--- >> > I | | >> >--->---| o o |--<------ >> > | ring | I >> > \|/ \|/ >> >---<--- I I ---->---- >> > >> Yes, this looks good. I am looking at torsion springs to first feed current >> into the ring. > >I don't think this is as good as I thought this morning.... After a quick look >at the equations, we need the UP and DOWN currents to be reversed from >what I showed. Otherwise the force due to the up and down part are >opposed to the inward radial current. I don't see how to wire this. All the >current would then come to a point. > >Bob Gray Have you done any calculations of the relative forces (or know how with an unknown 1/r^? factor.) of the up/down currents and the radial? If beta is the angle of the up down currents w.r.t. the distance vector: And it is in the same plane, then the 2 dot products, (or epsilon = beta = 90 deg.) = zero so the Ampere force is zero. If the element is above or below the ring, then epsilon = 90 deg. still, so the 2*cos(epsilon) term still = zero. Furthermore, the angle beta is always < or > 90 deg, so this factor always has the some sign. This means the force is ~cos(alpha), which looks like another net torque result. Moving this current to the other side and reversing its direction doesn't change this force. As for experiments, I wound a ring (40 turns, 6 amps = 240 Amp-turns), and first mounted it on a pendulum, then built torsion springs and used them too. It is sort of like a d'Arsonval meter movement. I wish it was more sensitive, I can see gram type forces easily. With a permanent magnet, I first expolored this dipole interaction behavior. No torque, of course, but saw some interesting things. With a permanent magnet VACE element, I discovered (again) that it has a weak dipole N-S magnet across a diameter. This swamped any other interaction. To get a more uniform VACE element, I used an electromagnet toroid (42 turns, 30 amps ~1200 Amps flowing through the center. This toroid is wound as a single layer without a "compensating" turn in the opposite sense. The largest interaction was the attraction of the ring to the ferromagnetic toroid core, with the toroid either on or off. A secondary interaction: There was a slight repulsion with the toroid on, with the toroid in either direction. No torque was noted. This was with the long. axis of the toroid pointing toward the ring. I will next try the other orientations, off axis, and the toroid inside the ring, etc. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 23 13:40:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08917; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:39:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:39:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:28:50 -1000 Subject: Re: Looking for Investor in NW USA From: "Rick Monteverde" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199906231639.SM00218@[192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"VSkwB2.0.DB2.9OKSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10926 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rod - > No I do not have a model that turns on its own because it needs 12 cylinders > not 2... Thats why I am asking for help. Each 'pair' work together and > independently of the other pairs but need the others to make a complete > rotation... However, what the 2 do, lift water about 2 feet and when I turn > them 180 degrees they lift water 2 feet again... they refill each other back > and forth... but momentum will not rotate them 180 degrees to do this on > their own...Plus I don't want to rely on momentum because once I put a load > on them, it will probably negate it. Ok. I would suggest that momentum could make up for the temporary absence of the other cylinders and show apparent over unity or gravity driven operation. That is, if the two cylinders really do tap some energy, a fly wheel on a good bearing could demonstrate the effect as a continually running machine, even if the net power is really tiny. If you're serious about getting proving your effect and getting investors lined up, the way to go would seem to be the track that gets a proof-of-concept demo up and running soonest. Otherwise, it will be hard since devices substantially similar to yours have been built and proven wrong many times over. Who would want to take the bet again without convincing evidence? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 23 18:11:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA07142; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:11:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:11:31 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:10:47 EDT Subject: Re: Looking for Investor in NW USA To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"yIQIY3.0.Vl1.3NOSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10927 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks for the advice Rick. I am still progressing on the project. It will be slower by myself thats why I was looking for investors to step up the project. Oh well, I know seeing is believing. I'm sure the investors will flock once I have something up and running... Take care, Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 23 22:29:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15871; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:29:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:29:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3771C21A.17144372@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:28:58 -0700 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Looking for Investor in NW USA References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"45K_Z1.0.pt3.V8SSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10928 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rod, Take a serious look at this..I'm not kidding, and you should know better by this time! Grod123456@aol.com wrote: > My prototype is of a gravity engine. I found a way for gravity to 'push' > water uphill in a never ending loop. The design is quite simple. When Uhuh... I will need an > additional $2k to $5k to finish developing the product and when completed and > successful, Uhh...$2-5K to add another 10 cyls? OK..let's assume $5k...and that makes it $500 PER CYLINDER...right? So you are telling us you've invested a whopping $1000 of your own money in this so far?? (read below) > I will offer the initial investor up to 40% ownership for > somewhere around $50k. ONLY THE PERSON THAT HELPS ME IN THE EARLY STAGES!!! Whats all this " 40% ownership for somewhere around $50k." about? Let this professional assure you that there isnt a court of law on this miserable Planet that wouldnt award 5/6ths ownership to your initial investor! Since 10 of 12 cyls were bought with his/her money... And just exactly what do you plan to do with $50k up front?? Get real! Publish! Do you think for ONE SECOND that you're going to actually get someone to do what you are asking? Not bluddy likely! > > After that, well, we'll let the professionals figure out how much its worth :) > If you would like to discuss this in detail please let me know... I think the history of this group speaks a mouthful in it's silence about what you are asking...here we PUBLISH...let the others test the results and the design is subjected to experimental scrutiny. > > And for all the negative people out there... Don't shoot this idea or any > idea down before you know the details... Unless your the individual that DOES > know everything, maybe you can learn something new from time to time. Oh please...grow up~! It's thinking like this that has kept OU out of the marketplace for 1200 years! PUBLISH! You cant possibly be serious about getting a patent, the government will simply sweep this under the rug as a part of Title 35...go read about it on KeelyNet...unless you PUBLISH - you dont stand a chance in hell of actually deploying this. > > Take care and good luck to all the other inventors/experimenters out > there...Someone maybe closer to the answer than we think... > Rod You too Rod...and remember, for every inventor who has claimed to have OU or something like it...and has refused to PUBLISH...we have yet-another anecdotal tale about the "conspiracy"...dont be the next one in the history of this work! Erik From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 24 01:22:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA20553; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:21:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:21:53 -0700 Message-ID: <3771D03C.41AD7433@telusplanet.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 01:29:16 -0500 From: Don Adams Reply-To: donadams@telusplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eks1@earthlink.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: EKS1 Attn Erik, Re: Looking for Investor in NW USA References: <3771C21A.17144372@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dgKDQ2.0.215.XgUSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10929 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Erik, I'm afraid I dont understand why all the negative attitude directed towards Rod? He's simply trying his best, could you not have indicated your concerns with out the 'attitude'? Commets like 'growup' seemed horribly out of place to me... eks1 wrote: > Rod, > > Take a serious look at this..I'm not kidding, and you should know better by this > time! > > Grod123456@aol.com wrote: > > > My prototype is of a gravity engine. I found a way for gravity to 'push' > > water uphill in a never ending loop. The design is quite simple. When > > Uhuh... > > I will need an > > additional $2k to $5k to finish developing the product and when completed and > > successful, > > Uhh...$2-5K to add another 10 cyls? OK..let's assume $5k...and that makes it > $500 PER CYLINDER...right? So you are telling us you've invested a whopping > $1000 of your own money in this so far?? (read below) > > > I will offer the initial investor up to 40% ownership for > > somewhere around $50k. ONLY THE PERSON THAT HELPS ME IN THE EARLY STAGES!!! > > Whats all this " 40% ownership for somewhere around $50k." about? > > Let this professional assure you that there isnt a court of law on this miserable > > Planet that wouldnt award 5/6ths ownership to your initial investor! Since 10 of > 12 cyls were bought with his/her money... > > And just exactly what do you plan to do with $50k up front?? Get real! Publish! > Do you think for ONE SECOND that you're going to actually get someone to do > what you are asking? Not bluddy likely! > > > > > After that, well, we'll let the professionals figure out how much its worth :) > > If you would like to discuss this in detail please let me know... > > I think the history of this group speaks a mouthful in it's silence about what > you > are asking...here we PUBLISH...let the others test the results and the design is > subjected to experimental scrutiny. > > > > > And for all the negative people out there... Don't shoot this idea or any > > idea down before you know the details... Unless your the individual that DOES > > know everything, maybe you can learn something new from time to time. > > Oh please...grow up~! It's thinking like this that has kept OU out of the > marketplace > for 1200 years! PUBLISH! You cant possibly be serious about getting a patent, > the government will simply sweep this under the rug as a part of Title 35...go > read > about it on KeelyNet...unless you PUBLISH - you dont stand a chance in hell of > actually deploying this. > > > > > Take care and good luck to all the other inventors/experimenters out > > there...Someone maybe closer to the answer than we think... > > Rod > > You too Rod...and remember, for every inventor who has claimed to have OU or > something like it...and has refused to PUBLISH...we have yet-another anecdotal > tale about the "conspiracy"...dont be the next one in the history of this work! > > Erik -- *********************************************************** Dance like no one's watching, love like you'll never be hurt, sing like no one's listening, live like it's heaven on earth. -- William Pukey ... You cannot find yourself, only create yourself. -- Anne Sekel ... My candle burns at both ends, It will not last the night, But, ah, my foes, and oh, my friends - it gives a lovely light. -- Edna St. Vincent Millay ... Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. -- Einstein ... We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are. -- Talmudic Saying ... Yesterday is a canceled check; tomorrow is a promissory note; today is the only cash you have. Spend it wisely. ... What if there were no hypothetical situations? -- Andrew Kohlsmith ... How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. -- Annie Dillard ... ====================================================================== Don J.S. Adams, Overseer and Registered Agent for Domhnall C G N Adams - (Corporation Sole - Lawful Entity Name) RAVE Communications 206-849-7966 Cell Phone - USA 780-998-4066 Canada http://www.intergate.bc.ca/rave alt e-mail address donjsadams@rocketmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 24 14:03:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA01580; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:01:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:01:39 -0700 Message-ID: <37729C90.2E42115D@harti.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:01:04 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Grod123456@aol.com, Free Energy Subject: Re: gravity overunity device ? X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <24ae4469.24a25f5a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Wy4yc.0.bO.pofSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10930 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > http://www.eagle-research.com/fenergy/gravity.html Grod123456@aol.com schrieb: > > Hi Stephan, > Yes its quite a bit like George Wiseman...hmmm... I wonder if my idea leaked > out....damn! Well, it is pretty obvious, that a device should work pretty simular to this, if it could at all work via gravity, so your idea is probably pretty common in this area... Grueter Blasius also tried it simular, but did not use the capilar effect, which could probably be used to pump (press) water higher than the center of gravity axis was... If you don´t publish your idea, you will probably end up like all the others OU inventors which wanted to make a quick big buck... Can you post at least a picture or a movie of your device on a website, so there is some validation that you really have something ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 24 15:05:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA29068; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:04:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:04:40 -0700 Message-ID: <008901bebe8d$e235dec0$c2a645d1@nimmachine> From: "Psy-Kosh" To: References: <24ae4469.24a25f5a@aol.com> <37729C90.2E42115D@harti.com> Subject: Re: gravity overunity device ? Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:06:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"zk1WQ1.0.567.tjgSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10931 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Actually, Wiseman's gravity engine looked to me to be based on negentropy. The energy of the gas particles is what carries the gas from one cylinder to another, which is what is powering the thing, in my view. Psy-Kosh DC2.!(scientist)/?(?(H)) r++/r+++! Gm a- s++ u-.5 (Carestaff member) "The scientist who would rather refute than comprehend demonstrates he has chosen the wrong calling." -The Forever Machine ------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 24 16:42:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA28707; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:41:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:41:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3772C255.FB10EDC1@harti.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 01:42:13 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Gravity converter works ? X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cj4cz2.0.N07.z8iSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10932 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, where is the error in this picture: http://www.eagle-research.com/images/sidebar/fenergy/gravity.gif ??? I have just tried to calculate it using just the 2 cylinders, that are connceted via the yellow hose. You can put these 2 cylinders just above each other and put the rotation axis between them. and indeed you can get the water to the higher reservoir cylinder by using the hydrostatic paradoxon by making the hose diameter small and the cylinder diameter big ! If you now compare the torque onto the axis when the water is still in the lower cylinder and when it was moved via the weights to the upper cylinder, you can see that there is more torque in the upper cylinder, when all water has been transferred to the upper cylinder. Now the whole 2 cylinder can turn 180 degrees and the same cycle begins again ! That is probably the design ROD Grod123456@aol.com is now having ! It is amazing, but it seems it just uses the hydrostatic paradoxon to shift the water via a small hose from a lower reservoir cylinder uphill to a higher reservoir cylinder and this way changing the torque arms ! What do you think ? Where is my error ?? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 24 17:47:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA19002; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:46:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:46:46 -0700 Message-ID: <00af01bebea4$23dc32a0$c2a645d1@nimmachine> From: "Psy-Kosh" To: References: <3772C255.FB10EDC1@harti.com> Subject: Re: Gravity converter works ? Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:45:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"BY4cv.0.oe4.r5jSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10933 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I thought the thing was using a gas. What is the hydrostatic paradoxon? Psy-Kosh DC2.!(scientist)/?(?(H)) r++/r+++! Gm a- s++ u-.5 (Carestaff member) "The scientist who would rather refute than comprehend demonstrates he has chosen the wrong calling." -The Forever Machine ------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 24 19:31:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA17888; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:31:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:31:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:31:35 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: Free Energy Subject: Re: gravity overunity device ? In-Reply-To: <37729C90.2E42115D@harti.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"k5y_g3.0.JN4.9ekSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10934 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Yes its quite a bit like George Wiseman...hmmm... I wonder if my idea leaked > > out....damn! > > Well, it is pretty obvious, > that a device should work pretty simular to this, > if it could at all work via gravity, > so your idea is probably pretty common in this area... About "negative" people... if somebody makes a discovery that threatens others, then those others will respond negatively. On the other hand, if somebody makes an obvious mistake but refuses to confront this fact, then anyone who points out the mistake... must be a "negative" person! Sometimes the nay-sayers are honest, and anyone who calls them "negative" is just trying to avoid looking at the mistake and trying to justify their blindness. And sometimes the nay-sayers are driven by fear, and if they object to the "negative" lable, it's because they cannot stand to see their own negativity. If people start pointing out a mistake, is it because they are negative nitpickers, or because they can honestly see a *genuine* mistake? Without being able to read minds, it's very hard to tell. About the Wiseman drawing with the yellow tube... one mistake is that if the whole thing rotates CCW by one sector, this is the same amount of work as lifting two of the weights upwards, while on the other hand, if the whole thing rotates CW by one sector, this is the same as lifting one cylinderfull of water upwards. It looks to me like the two effects cancel out exactly. What if the the weighted pistons are heavier than a cylinderfull of water? Then they will fall down through their cylinders and lift the water to the top, but the lifted water will be too light to turn the wheel and thereby restore the next pair of weights to the original height. What if the water is heavier than the pistons? Then the water in the yellow tube will try to fall downwards, and the pistons won't be able to push the water up to the upper cylinder. What if someone actually built this device? Maybe something unexpected would happen, and it would start turning. However, that's a longshot bet, and we have no reason to expect that this would happen. Investors should expect to probably lose their money. If we had some clearly-stated maverik-physics theory that suggests that the machine will work, then that's different. Or, if somebody built a tiny desktop model and saw that it worked, then that's different too. If there is no theory, and experiment, and we just say "it's so complicated that we don't know what it will do", then I suspect that we are just trying to avoid sitting down and figuring it out (and making the complexity go away.) If gravity is to be tapped as a source of energy, I think we need some sort of nonlinear phenomenon. Lifting weights and lifting water both involve linear ratios of work per height. We should not expect to find any free energy there. On the other hand, if there are weird things contributing to the motion of the weights or the water, such as accelerated vortex motion of water, then all bets are off. Yet if this device is supposed to rely on vortex motion, nobody has said so. The device isn't based on vortex effects. Also, why not build a simplified device which uses the vortex directly, and lacks all the friction of the sliding weights and the moving chain of cylinders? I remember one report from Keelynet by a person who, as a kid, had a perpetual-motion toy built by a relative. In it the marbles circulated down a funnel-shaped path, whacked into a sort of "waterwheel" device at the bottom, and that wheel operated an elevator which lifted marbles back to the top. Sounds like a harnessing of vortex-motion, eh? What would happen if water spun as a vortex through a large funnel, and the outlet of the funnel was used to run a small turbine which in turn ran a water pump? If the vortex motion of the water in the funnel makes it shoot out of the bottom faster than conventional theory allows, then the whole thing would start running in closed-loop mode. (maybe the water temperature would go down as the vortex converted heat into water-motion?) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 24 21:16:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA30090; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:15:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:15:48 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:13:50 EDT Subject: More Info on the Gravity Wheel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"nat6r2.0.1M7.p9mSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10935 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Just so everyone knows, I have a machine shop now sponsoring my project so now we proceed for free!!! (Well the shop owner has to pay for the use of machinery)...He saw my two cylinders and as I flipped them back and forth in my hand it seemed quite obvious to him... Does anyone know how long George Wiseman's drawing has been on his website? I'm just curious if my drawing leaked out or if 2 people in fact came up with the same idea...The 'gas' that everyone is confused over is in fact "transmission fluid" (well at least thats what I'm using right now) ... It is pretty fluid and has lubricating properties to help the O-rings on the pistons... I have researched physics books diligently in search of formulas for water properties and so forth.... I now know how much weight it takes to lift the water per foot( in square inches)... Also how much steel weighs per cubic inch...It doesn't matter the size of the transfer tube or how much water the pistons lift (ok people you can slam me now) the only thing to factor in is how 'high' the liquid is to be lifted...I have found it takes 1.6" of steel piston to lift the liquid 1 foot... it does not matter the diameter of the cylinder, it still is the same...But wait, we get to cheat.... One piston is pushing the water up while the top piston is 'sucking' the water up...I don't know if the suction lifts the liquid as high as the pushing effect but it is close... I know this because I tested first one cylinder and measured the height it moves up a tube...Then I hooked the other cylinder at top, flipped it upside down, and it was real close to double... One more thing to address: someone mentioned that the 2 sides would cancel each other out...the answer to that would be no... the cylinders and pistons all cancel each other out, while all the liquid is on one side thus making the left side heavier than the right... the system will rotate counterclockwise trying to balance out(lets say just one-fourth of the way around) well by then, another 2 cylinders will be vertical thus, making 2 more cylinders fall to the bottom and shooting more liquid to the top cylinder and once again, throwing the system out of balance...(neverending loop) Now a math problem for all you guys...From my calculations, this is how a small system will perform... I need to check my math and find out if my power formula is correct... Lets say there is 336 lbs. of water on the left side (I know there will be friction but for now lets say it is minimal) if the top pulley is 4 foot diameter and the pulley is rotating at 4 rpm's (trying to be conservative), would this be roughly 1/4 horsepower??? 8,400 ft lbs./min? And one more thing...OF COURSE I WANT TO PROFIT FROM THIS!!! Wouldn't you? I dream of the day when I don't have to worry about bills...I would LOVE to be wealthy!!!! But I will draw the line if it means this idea dies without getting it out to the public...My ultimate goal is to see this succeed (or fail) either way, at least I'll know...I would just like some help or suggestions.... Thanks for your time guys... Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 24 21:17:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA30896; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:17:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:17:18 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:16:15 EDT Subject: Re: Gravity converter works ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Resent-Message-ID: <"Tdrzd3.0.fY7.DBmSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10936 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/24/99 4:42:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, harti@harti.com writes: << Hi All, where is the error in this picture: http://www.eagle-research.com/images/sidebar/fenergy/gravity.gif ???>> Unfortunately, this can be analyzed with fairly basic physics considerations. As one of the weights makes a complete loop the amount of energy you get from it coming down is exactly equal to the energy it takes to move it up. For each molecule of water the same statement holds. The interactions between the weights and water, hose, pressure, etc., while possibly interesting and complex, do not effect the basic physics considerations or final outcome. That is a result of gravity being a conservative field. Unfortunate, but true. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 24 22:01:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA11117; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:00:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:00:52 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 01:00:12 EDT Subject: Re: Gravity converter works ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"XogUS2.0.cj2.4qmSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10937 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken, Hope you don't mind a little debating but your comment is exactly the part that no one is getting...Both weights ALWAYS drop... Look at the drawing...The chain is always balanced correct? The cylinders(without liquid) always balance themselves out correct? The pistons always balance out correct???Now with all of that in mind then it is obvious that the weight of the liquid which is all on the left side will make the left side of the system heavier which will make it 'seek' balance point....balance point would of course be half the full cylinders on the left and half on the right... but wait... that can't happen! when the cylinders are on the right side are full, that means the piston is on top of the water.... also the cylinder opposite the right cylinder has the piston 'resting' at the top of the cylinder... well, because gravity will make those 2 cylinders fall, the liquid has to be pushed back to the left side and thus throwing the system out of balance once again.... If someone is still confused, please contact me and I'll try to explain it in a different way... Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 24 22:07:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13098; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:06:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:06:55 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 01:06:07 EDT Subject: Re: Gravity converter works ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"a-XoL1.0.VC3.jvmSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10938 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken, Hope you don't mind a little debating but your comment is exactly the part that no one is getting...Both weights ALWAYS drop... Look at the drawing...The chain is always balanced correct? The cylinders(without liquid) always balance themselves out correct? The pistons always balance out correct???Now with all of that in mind then it is obvious that the weight of the liquid which is all on the left side will make the left side of the system heavier which will make it 'seek' balance point....balance point would of course be half the full cylinders on the left and half on the right... but wait... that can't happen! when the cylinders are on the right side are full, that means the piston is on top of the water.... also the cylinder opposite the right cylinder has the piston 'resting' at the top of the cylinder... well, because gravity will make those 2 cylinders fall, the liquid has to be pushed back to the left side and thus throwing the system out of balance once again.... If someone is still confused, please contact me and I'll try to explain it in a different way... Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 24 22:10:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA14250; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:09:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:09:44 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 01:08:54 EDT Subject: Re: Gravity converter works ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"GvqUb1.0.YU3.NymSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10939 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'm Sorry, I said gravity will make both cylinders fall... I meant to say gravity will make both PISTONS fall... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 24 22:37:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA22551; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:35:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:35:03 -0700 Message-ID: <004a01bebecc$7348a8a0$bc21c6d0@schnabel.netkonnect.net> From: "William W. Schnabel" To: Subject: Re: Gravity converter works ? Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 01:34:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"iT1U23.0.GW5.6KnSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10940 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How do you plan to make the hose connection to the moving cylinders? You could make pipe spokes on the wheel, and a water inlet in the hub(like a hose reel). A fixed opening around the hub would assure that the right spokes got the fluid. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 24 23:18:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA03351; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:18:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:18:27 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: <312d7ca2.24a4784e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 02:14:38 EDT Subject: Re: Gravity converter works ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"kA3CM1.0.Gq.pynSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10941 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: That part is easy... I don't follow George Wiseman's design... I have seperate hoses hooked permanently to every pair of cylinders :) That way they can transfer back and forth with absolutely no fluid loss... the one hose connection could make some mixed up fluid levels in the cylinders... Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jun 24 23:39:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA06857; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:38:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:38:48 -0700 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: <2db2db98.24a47d55@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 02:36:05 EDT Subject: I purchased 4 x Wisemans Plans :-( To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA06833 Resent-Message-ID: <"iqwzA1.0.zg1.uFoSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10942 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: << Hi Folks It was about some years a go, I saw George Wiseman's advertisement was trying to sell some free energy plans so I purchased all 4 of them 10 dollars a piece for total of 40 bucks. I have to be honest and tell you that I felt sorry for myself every time I read something about those plans. George Wiseman, I think he's a rather writer then inventor. That was my own perception. I felt dumb full wasting my 40 bucks then. Sorry Mr. Wiseman even if yourself read this email. If you sell plans wishing to make money so you can continou to making research I would say don't do it its not worth it you'll make many people unhappy with your plans and their bad thinking of you may influence your creativity to invent. I hope you got the message, because has been few yrs that I purchase your plans and as soon as I read your name bad memories came bach again. Mehmet.>> > http://www.eagle-research.com/fenergy/gravity.html Grod123456@aol.com schrieb: > > Hi Stephan, > Yes its quite a bit like George Wiseman...hmmm... I wonder if my idea leaked > out....damn! Well, it is pretty obvious, that a device should work pretty simular to this, if it could at all work via gravity, so your idea is probably pretty common in this area... Grueter Blasius also tried it simular, but did not use the capilar effect, which could probably be used to pump (press) water higher than the center of gravity axis was... If you don´t publish your idea, you will probably end up like all the others OU inventors which wanted to make a quick big buck... Can you post at least a picture or a movie of your device on a website, so there is some validation that you really have something ? Regards, Stefan. >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 00:41:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA25208; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:40:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:40:45 -0700 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:39:53 EDT Subject: I made a gravity machine 8 yrs a go To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"-bqMv2.0.n96.z9pSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10943 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: << Hi Rod, I have made this 2 cylinder gravity motor about 8 yrs a go that spouse to work with push/pull force free moving pistons to transfer the fluid which was water from cylinder to cylinder so that main wheel which cylinders was attached to I thought always would try to find its own balance so wheel would likewise forever would spin I made the cylinders out of 3" PVC pipes they were 18" long and the pistons I made them (cast) out of pure lead about 5lbs each I had a problem how to make the seals, which then I used leather seals the whole gizmo looked like figure 8. I spend much money and time doing that machine. The result was negative, came to middle way and stayed like that, I was a frustrated for a while. Some of the mistakes I made was everything was glued, so I couldn't take a part to work on it. seals was definitely the major problem, I had no access to machine shop, If had it would have been much easier. At the end I cut off the pipes and destroyed the machine. But I haven't lot the faith, I know there a solution some where but couldn't make it then to work. The drawing on the paper looks great and very logical but making the machine is very delicate work. I hope you will achieve the victory, with yours. I wish you much success. Mehmet.>> << That part is easy... I don't follow George Wiseman's design... I have seperate hoses hooked permanently to every pair of cylinders :) That way they can transfer back and forth with absolutely no fluid loss... the one hose connection could make some mixed up fluid levels in the cylinders... Rod >> From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 01:42:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA01759; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 01:42:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 01:42:11 -0700 Message-ID: <19990625084140.15195.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.200] From: flytch er To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Why pistons and cylinders... Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 01:41:39 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"aiSv33.0.KR.Y3qSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10944 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Rod, why use pistons and cylinders when it seems to me that blatters or diaphragms would/could have less drag??? and could operate the same way....????? just a thought :) ___________ !( )! !( )! !( )! !( )! !(_______)! ! XXXXX ! XXXXX XXXXX flytch... _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 02:46:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA07916; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 02:46:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 02:46:01 -0700 Message-ID: <37734FEF.4CDC68A8@harti.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:46:23 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Gravity converter pic posted ! X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UX1U33.0.bx1.O_qSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10945 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.overunity.com/gravcon/gravcon1.gif Hi, take a look at this picture and let me know, where the error is !? I can not find one and when you use the hydrostatic paradoxon and make the hose diameter small versus the cylinder diameter you can really get the water up and have a bigger torque arm above the rotation axis ! So this device can rotate again and again.. The cycle just repeats itsself. Let me know your view. Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !QUIT From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 02:46:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA08003; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 02:46:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 02:46:34 -0700 Message-ID: <37735006.1811E18C@harti.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:46:46 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Gravity converter pic posted ! X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BV85q.0.yy1.v_qSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10946 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.overunity.com/gravcon/gravcon1.gif Hi, take a look at this picture and let me know, where the error is !? I can not find one and when you use the hydrostatic paradoxon and make the hose diameter small versus the cylinder diameter you can really get the water up and have a bigger torque arm above the rotation axis ! So this device can rotate again and again.. The cycle just repeats itsself. Let me know your view. Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 03:01:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA11660; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:01:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:01:07 -0700 Message-ID: <19990625100036.11748.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.200] From: flytch er To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity converter pic posted ! Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:00:36 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"rOy_3.0.5s2.ZDrSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10947 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: what about moment arm... the weight at/near the fulcrum + the water is equal to the weight extended away from the fulcrum... so no net gain exists by just moving the water to either side... it wants to be horizontal not vertical... so it would just stop 1/2 way!!! flytch... >From: Stefan Hartmann >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List > >Subject: Gravity converter pic posted ! >Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:46:23 +0200 > >http://www.overunity.com/gravcon/gravcon1.gif > >Hi, >take a look at this picture and >let me know, >where the error is !? > >I can not find one >and when you use the hydrostatic paradoxon >and make the hose diameter small versus >the cylinder diameter you can really get the water >up and have a bigger torque arm above the rotation axis ! >So this device can rotate again and again.. >The cycle just repeats itsself. > >Let me know your view. >Thanks ! > >Regards, Stefan. > > >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, >Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !QUIT > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 03:11:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA17287; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:10:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:10:57 -0700 Message-ID: <377355E1.EBB180FA@harti.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:11:45 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Newman-L Mailing List , flytch er Subject: Re: Gravity converter pic posted ! References: <19990625100036.11748.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SRZsU2.0.wD4.nMrSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10948 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: flytch er schrieb: > > what about moment arm... the weight at/near the fulcrum + the water is equal > to the weight extended away from the fulcrum... so no net gain exists by > just moving the water to either side... it wants to be horizontal not > vertical... so it would just stop 1/2 way!!! > flytch... > http://www.overunity.com/gravcon/gravcon1.gif See it this way: the weight has 10 KG, ha 10 cm height and 100 Litern Water are inside the cylinder. The water height is 1 Meter , so the lower cylinder all in all is 110 cm. so you get a lower Torque Arm of 60,5 Meter Kilogramm and for the upper Zylinder 10.5 mKg. Now the water is moved up via the small diameter hose and now you have 60,5 Meter Kilogramm in the upper cylinder and just 10.5 mKg in the lower ! Now this is the condition it can rotate by 180 degrees ! Now the cycle starts again ! Think about it. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 03:20:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA21663; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:20:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:20:38 -0700 Message-ID: <3773581C.8ABFE02A@harti.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:21:16 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity converter pic posted ! References: <19990625100036.11748.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bW0NA.0.OI5.sVrSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10949 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: No, all 2 weights allways go down all the way inside the cylinders ! They won´t stop at 1/2 way ! Why should they ? Gravity allways pulls them down completely ! The trick is using the hydrostatic paradoxon, you can lift the lower diameter hose fluid much higher than the bigger diameter cylinder water ! But allmost all water mass is transfered via the small diameter mass to the cylinder above ! There we have a variable shaped water-mass (nonlinear mass) in a gravity field. Maybe here we can violate the conservation laws ? flytch er schrieb: > > what about moment arm... the weight at/near the fulcrum + the water is equal > to the weight extended away from the fulcrum... so no net gain exists by > just moving the water to either side... it wants to be horizontal not > vertical... so it would just stop 1/2 way!!! > flytch... > >Subject: Gravity converter pic posted ! > >Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:46:23 +0200 > > > >http://www.overunity.com/gravcon/gravcon1.gif > > > >Hi, > >take a look at this picture and > >let me know, > >where the error is !? > > > >I can not find one > >and when you use the hydrostatic paradoxon > >and make the hose diameter small versus > >the cylinder diameter you can really get the water > >up and have a bigger torque arm above the rotation axis ! > >So this device can rotate again and again.. > >The cycle just repeats itsself. > > > >Let me know your view. > >Thanks ! > > > >Regards, Stefan. > > > > > >-- > >Hartmann Multimedia Service, > >Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > >Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > >email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB !QUIT > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 03:31:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA27278; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:31:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:31:16 -0700 Message-ID: <37735A93.1668D8AB@harti.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:31:47 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Re: Gravity converter pic posted ! References: <37734FEF.4CDC68A8@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3QD8f1.0.7g6.qfrSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10950 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann schrieb: > > http://www.overunity.com/gravcon/gravcon1.gif Hi, for those, who don´t understand the motion and the cycling of the upper device, have a look again at the Grueter Blasius machine RealVideo movie: http://mars.spaceports.com/~over/movies/gb05.rm Although the Grueter Blasius machine did not work, http://www.overunity.com/gravcon/gravcon1.gif could probably work, as ROD Grod123456@aol.com confirmed with this email: Just so everyone knows, I have a machine shop now sponsoring my project so now we proceed for free!!! (Well the shop owner has to pay for the use of machinery)...He saw my two cylinders and as I flipped them back and forth in my hand it seemed quite obvious to him... Does anyone know how long George Wiseman's drawing has been on his website? I'm just curious if my drawing leaked out or if 2 people in fact came up with the same idea...The 'gas' that everyone is confused over is in fact "transmission fluid" (well at least thats what I'm using right now) ... It is pretty fluid and has lubricating properties to help the O-rings on the pistons... I have researched physics books diligently in search of formulas for water properties and so forth.... I now know how much weight it takes to lift the water per foot( in square inches)... Also how much steel weighs per cubic inch...It doesn't matter the size of the transfer tube or how much water the pistons lift (ok people you can slam me now) the only thing to factor in is how 'high' the liquid is to be lifted...I have found it takes 1.6" of steel piston to lift the liquid 1 foot... it does not matter the diameter of the cylinder, it still is the same...But wait, we get to cheat.... One piston is pushing the water up while the top piston is 'sucking' the water up...I don't know if the suction lifts the liquid as high as the pushing effect but it is close... I know this because I tested first one cylinder and measured the height it moves up a tube...Then I hooked the other cylinder at top, flipped it upside down, and it was real close to double... One more thing to address: someone mentioned that the 2 sides would cancel each other out...the answer to that would be no... the cylinders and pistons all cancel each other out, while all the liquid is on one side thus making the left side heavier than the right... the system will rotate counterclockwise trying to balance out(lets say just one-fourth of the way around) well by then, another 2 cylinders will be vertical thus, making 2 more cylinders fall to the bottom and shooting more liquid to the top cylinder and once again, throwing the system out of balance...(neverending loop) Now a math problem for all you guys...From my calculations, this is how a small system will perform... I need to check my math and find out if my power formula is correct... Lets say there is 336 lbs. of water on the left side (I know there will be friction but for now lets say it is minimal) if the top pulley is 4 foot diameter and the pulley is rotating at 4 rpm's (trying to be conservative), would this be roughly 1/4 horsepower??? 8,400 ft lbs./min? And one more thing...OF COURSE I WANT TO PROFIT FROM THIS!!! Wouldn't you? I dream of the day when I don't have to worry about bills...I would LOVE to be wealthy!!!! But I will draw the line if it means this idea dies without getting it out to the public...My ultimate goal is to see this succeed (or fail) either way, at least I'll know...I would just like some help or suggestions.... Thanks for your time guys... Rod -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 03:31:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA27384; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:31:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:31:42 -0700 Message-ID: <37735A82.2257F969@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:31:30 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity converter pic posted ! References: <37735006.1811E18C@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GIuS-.0.nh6.DgrSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10951 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Hi, > take a look at this picture and > let me know, > where the error is !? > Replace the 10 Kg weight with a balloon filled with 10 liters of water and see there is never enough pressure to pump the water to upper cylinder. Actually the setup want to work as a syphon, creating negative pressure (vacuum) at the upper cylinder. Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 03:46:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA00081; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:46:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 03:46:37 -0700 Message-ID: <37735E28.4FC943D5@harti.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:47:04 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Newman-L Mailing List , hamdi ucar Subject: Re: Gravity converter pic posted ! X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <37735006.1811E18C@harti.com> <37735A82.2257F969@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"d19Wf1.0.51.DurSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10952 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hamdi ucar schrieb: > > > Hi, > > take a look at this picture and > > let me know, > > where the error is !? > > > > Replace the 10 Kg weight with a balloon filled with 10 liters of water and see there is never >enough pressure to pump the water to upper cylinder. Actually the setup want to work as a syphon, >creating negative pressure (vacuum) at the upper cylinder. > Well, yes, all only depends on the diameter differences of the hose versus the cylinder ! The hydrostatic pressure law can be written as: F1/A1=F2/A2 If you make hose area A1 very small (small diameter) and cylinder area pretty big (A2), you get a big force F1 lifting the water inside the hose up very high ! High enough to get it into the upper cylinder ! Additionally we have a claim of ROD, who actually said that he has built it, says that it works ! Best regards, Stefan. > Regards, hamdi ucar -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 04:23:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA06967; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 04:22:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 04:22:51 -0700 Message-ID: <3773654F.FCF233D@gamewood.net> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:17:35 -0400 From: "James F. (Jim) Hawn" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Heat Engine References: <930026117.15800.625@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OAlxO2.0.mi1.AQsSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10953 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I ran across a web site, that had a patent for a thermal engine. Seems like I found it as a heat engine. http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?pg=q&kl=en&q=heat+engine The impression I got was it was "released into the public domain". Imagine if you will, instead of water (in the pic below) you used propane, http://www.overunity.com/gravcon/gravcon1.gif and removed the weights. Put a set of coils on your roof, and heat water. Dump the warm water into a pool below. Maybe even add some furry stuff to the outsides of the containers (evaporative cooling). Expansion and contraction does the rest From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 05:26:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA18624; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:25:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:25:39 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:45:23 -0400 Subject: Re: More Info on the Gravity Wheel Message-ID: <19990625.082603.349.0.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-11 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"UXkyV1.0.rY4.2LtSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10954 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The booklet I ordered from him which contains all the details and calculations is dated 4/98. Dave On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:13:50 EDT Grod123456@aol.com writes: ... Does anyone know how long > George > Wiseman's drawing has been on his website? I'm just curious if my > drawing > leaked out or if 2 people in fact came up with the same idea... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 05:32:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA20571; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:32:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:32:35 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:22:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Gravity converter works ? Message-ID: <19990625.082603.349.1.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-20,22 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"mg5Nj1.0.K15.XRtSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10955 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Actually his design does too. The picture on his web page only shows one just to illustrate the principle. (that confused me at first too) He uses flexible garden hoses which go around the outside making sure that the rising water is on the side you want to be heavier so that it contributes to the imbalance. On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 02:14:38 EDT Grod123456@aol.com writes: > That part is easy... I don't follow George Wiseman's design... I have > > seperate hoses hooked permanently to every pair of cylinders :) > That way they can transfer back and forth with absolutely no fluid > loss... > the one hose connection could make some mixed up fluid levels in the > > cylinders... > Rod > ============================================ dave.tingley@juno.com http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/3992/dt.html The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 09:21:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA16638; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:20:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:20:27 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:19:50 EDT Subject: Re: I purchased 4 x Wisemans Plans :-( To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"yiO6u.0.W34.AnwSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10956 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Mehmet, Did you purchase the gravity design back then? I'm just trying to figure out when he came up with the idea... Thanks Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 09:24:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA18173; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:24:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:24:08 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: <28a440b.24a50700@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:23:28 EDT Subject: Re: Why pistons and cylinders... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"_5UPD.0.rR4.dqwSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10957 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You need the weight of the pistons to drop due to gravity...If we didn't use a heavy weight, the water would never get 'lifted' to the higher cylinder... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 09:33:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA23837; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:33:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:33:05 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:32:07 EDT Subject: Re: Gravity converter pic posted ! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"u6Ueb.0.Iq5.0zwSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10958 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stephan, No this design wont work... I've tried this one...That's why my design has evolved due to a few failures... The reason it dosen't work is that the water probably weighs about 2 or 3 kg... When the water gets pushed up the top piston is now closer to the axis while the bottom piston is further from the axis... With that in mind the 'torque' factor on the axis now comes in to play... The cylinder with the closer piston and water has less torque on the axis than the empty cylinder with the piston further away...You can mathematically prove this one... Hope this clears things up for you! Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 09:42:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA30996; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:42:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:42:31 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: <81092cf0.24a50b4c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:41:48 EDT Subject: Re: Gravity converter pic posted ! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"nQJ7u1.0.6a7.s5xSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10959 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey guys!!!! No offense to you but since you are just getting involved in the idea you are thinking about the stuff I did 4 months ago... I made the mistake that this would work but it does not... you can not take the weight of the cylinder as a whole with water and piston...since they are different masses, you must take the measurement of the center of mass of the water in relation to the axis... You must also take the center mass of the piston in relation to the axis... You then multiply the weight of each to the distance of each, add them together and you will ALWAYS get less than the weight times distance of the empty cylinder with the piston further away...Sad but true...IF you find one that isn't, then your mistake is that the piston weight won't be heavy enough to lift the water to the height you want...Try it...you'll see...That was one of my BIG mistakes!! Take care, Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 09:49:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA01689; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:49:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:49:17 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: <4977067c.24a50cd9@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:48:25 EDT Subject: Re: Gravity converter pic posted ! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"bC14O1.0.IQ.CCxSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10960 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stephan, Try this experiment : Make a cylinder with a piston like the drawings... Attach a small diameter hose to it ...measure the height... Now attach a large diameter hose to it....Guess what ? The same height!!! The diameter of the hose does not matter (as long as its not bigger than the cylinder) I found in an old physics book, that at sea level, it takes .43 lbs per square inch of mass to lift water 1 foot in height.... So how ever many square inches of the surface of your piston, and to what height you want to lift the water, that will determine how much weight your piston needs to be.... period.... The size of the transfer hose does not matter... In fact, the larger it is, the faster the fluid will get displaced (less pressure to transfer) After all, we want this sucker to turn as fast as possible... Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 09:53:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA04050; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:52:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:52:45 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: <84a2da18.24a50d9b@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:51:39 EDT Subject: Re: Gravity converter pic posted ! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"cYYqw2.0.6_.SFxSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10961 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: EXACTLY! The top cylinder is supposed to act like a vacuum! The 2 cylinders work together to lift the water to the upper reservoir! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 10:20:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA21802; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:20:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:20:27 -0700 Message-ID: <19990625171953.26880.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.254.227.49] From: flytch er To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Why pistons and cylinders... Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:19:53 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"RkNfo3.0.UK5.QfxSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10962 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >You need the weight of the pistons to drop due to gravity...If we didn't >use >a heavy weight, the water would never get 'lifted' to the higher >cylinder... Ok ... attach the weight to one end of a blatter or diaphragm.... work is the same but no drag from seals...??? _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 12:45:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA21142; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:44:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:44:47 -0700 Message-ID: <3773DC5D.77B9B46F@harti.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:45:33 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Subject: Gravity converter picture from ROD posted ! X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"t1nFO3.0.AA5.kmzSt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10963 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.overunity.com/gravcon/index.htm Have a look here ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 18:58:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA02438; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:58:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:58:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:57:59 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: More Info on the Gravity Wheel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9iN2r2.0.qb.hE3Tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10964 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 Grod123456@aol.com wrote: > One more thing to address: someone mentioned that the 2 sides would cancel > each other out...the answer to that would be no... Nope, that's not exactly what I said. There are many things that cancel out. (BTW, think about the problems with secrecy. If Wiseman didn't have that webpage, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Secrecy doesn't protect discoveries, it causes DAMAGE. If the "men in black" want to suppress a real discovery, they hardly have to do anything, since secretive inventors will suppress it themselves.) There are five energy-effects here: 1. the two metal pistons which fall and push the water up the hose 2. the water trying to fall down the hose, but which gets lifted by the pistons instead 3. The friction that brakes the pistons to a halt and eats the difference between 1 and 2 4. the two pistons which *essentially* get lifted whenever the chain rotates by one step. 5. the water of the single full cylinder which *essentially* moves downwards to the lowest postion each time the chain rotates once What gets cancelled out? 1 and 4. Also 2 and 5. This leaves 3 which is an energy-eater, not an energy source. There is also that column of water-filled pistons on one side. I'll get to that in a minute. If the metal is heavier than the water, then the pistons will push the water upwards. In other words, the falling of the pistons gives us more energy than the falling of the water would, therefor the pistons must fall and the water rise. This transfers energy from the falling pistons to the rising water. The sinking of the pistons gives out energy, say 10 units. The rising of the water stores less energy, say 9 units. Where does the difference go? In a frictionless system, the pistons would move very fast, the water would still be moving when the pistons hit bottom, so the motion of the water would slam the pistons back and forth like a pendulum until the energy was lost as sound waves. On the other hand, if there is fluid friction, it would act as a brake, and make the pistons be lowered slowly as the water gets slightly warm from friction. The friction "eats" the difference between the output energy of the falling pistons and the stored energy of the rising water. OK, in order for the chain to turn by one step, it must lower the water, and once it has turned, there is an empty cylinder at the top, and a full one at the bottom. This gives us 9 units back. However, once the chain has turned one step, we find that the two pistons at the top and bottom have been restored to the "lifted" position. This takes 10 units, but we only have 9. Where can the energy for this lifting come from? Yes, we had to initially store some energy by pre-filling all of the cylinders along one side. But if we use the energy stored there by not allowing each upper cylinder to fill completely, the energy in the column of full cylinders will be gone. It won't be returned over the next cycles because there are no "overunity physics" injecting new ZPE into the system. On each step of the wheels, we lose energy. What will happen? It should stall. Or, if you only let the cylinders each fill half way per step, then it should turn several steps but only until all of the cylinders are left half-filled. Yes, I'm a know-it-all nay-sayer! :) I have come to the belief that perpetual motion machines are impossible. Then why do I host FREENRG-L? Because an overunity device is not a perpetual motion machine, it is more like a "solar cell" for cosmic energy. If somebody discovers how to convert hydrogen directly into helium without radioactivity, or builds a water-vortex device that taps the sea of the ZPE, or discovers a hole in electromagnetic physics which charges a capacitor more than it slows down a magnet, then that is an overunity device. It might be possible to tap gravity. But not by lifting a block of water up, and then lowering it again to the original level. On the other hand, I'd love to see the finished device in operation. As long as it is being built out of curiousity and creative drive, then that's excellent, since it doesn't matter what the end result will be, and new knowledge will be gained. Also, people who look for perpetual motion have a much better chance than an orthodox scientist of accidentally stumbling upon an overunity phenomenon. What if overunity processes are laying all around us, unseen? It's because of our blindness that we can't see them. Orthodox scientists intentionally pursue this blindness. "Crackpot" hobbyists might see something interesting that highly trained experts could never see. If your device is being built because of dreams of fame and riches, or because the chance of fame and riches have been promised to others, then that sucks. It's like gambling on million-to-one bets. We can chase the illusion of easy riches, inflate our ego and self-importance, pour money and time down a hole, wreck our families, etc., and never have any success. One reason that orthodox scientists hate perpetual motion machines is because they know the lessons of history: obsessive, secretive pursuit of them can swallow life-savings and wreck families just as surely as addictive gambling does. What if it does work????? It should not, since there is no reason to expect any excess energy to appear. But what if it works anyway? If your machine should keep spinning forever, then there is something important to ask: exactly what stage in the process is injecting some major amounts of energy into the system? If your machine really works, then this question can be answered, and then you can probably build a *very* simple free energy device based on your analysis. It might look like a Schauberger device, like a solid flywheel with some funny-shaped grooves carved in it, immersed underwater, and it would speed up to horrifically fast rates like a steam turbine. The goal of O/U research is not to find a "perpetual motion" machine. Our goal is to find a PERPETUAL ACCELERATION device: a device which taps energy and therefor moves faster and faster until, if there is no regulator mechanism, it explodes violently. Wasn't Keely always being hospitalized from accidental explosions as he worked on his inventions? Tesla and Chernetski blew up big electric generators without meaning to. If an invention tends to burst apart for no known reason, or if it suddenly puts out mysterious radiation pulses that kill everything for yards around, then this indicates that the inventor is close to success! :) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 19:01:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA03266; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 19:00:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 19:00:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 19:00:19 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity converter works ? In-Reply-To: <312d7ca2.24a4784e@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"kbkPB1.0.xo.xG3Tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10965 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 Grod123456@aol.com wrote: > That part is easy... I don't follow George Wiseman's design... I have > seperate hoses hooked permanently to every pair of cylinders :) > That way they can transfer back and forth with absolutely no fluid loss... > the one hose connection could make some mixed up fluid levels in the > cylinders... Ah, then the whole thing can be a wheel, rather than a rotating chain. Lots simpler, and easier to build quickly to see who's right. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 22:15:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA16913; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:15:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:15:36 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: <35190df8.24a5bbc7@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 01:14:47 EDT Subject: Re: Why pistons and cylinders... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"cBmRy3.0.A84.t76Tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10966 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Ok ... attach the weight to one end of a blatter or diaphragm.... work is >the same but no drag from seals...??? hmmm...that sounds interesting... I will give that some thought:) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jun 25 22:35:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA20643; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:35:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:35:22 -0700 From: Grod123456@aol.com Message-ID: <415ecdab.24a5c077@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 01:34:47 EDT Subject: Re: Gravity converter works ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"3t0ZF.0.S25.QQ6Tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10967 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nope...A wheel won't work mathematically speaking... because weight has a different torque on the axis due to the distance between the piston and the axis...and also the angle of the piston in relation to the axis... For example a weight weighing one pound will have a torque of 1 lb to the axis at the 3 oclock position and the 9 oclock position... this same weight will have a weight of Zero pounds at the 12 oclock and the 6 oclock position... There is a geometric formula to figure this out.... Rod From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 26 00:44:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA09377; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:43:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:43:53 -0700 From: MKSBoysal@aol.com Message-ID: <2a3da7bb.24a5de92@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 03:43:14 EDT Subject: Re: I purchased 4 x Wisemans Plans :-( To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"nwdOq.0.LI2.vI8Tt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10968 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: << Hi Mehmet, Did you purchase the gravity design back then? I'm just trying to figure out when he came up with the idea... Thanks Rod >> << Hi Rod, Gravity wheel it was my idea, I spend many years tying to invent gravity motor. The plans I bought from Mr. Wiseman were nothing to do with gravity force. Mehmet.>> . From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 26 02:50:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA25682; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 02:50:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 02:50:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3774A109.F49AFCC8@harti.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:44:41 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, William Beaty Subject: Re: More Info on the Gravity Wheel References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Fj_Sw3.0.BH6.b9ATt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10969 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty schrieb: > > On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 Grod123456@aol.com wrote: > > > One more thing to address: someone mentioned that the 2 sides would cancel > > each other out...the answer to that would be no... > > Nope, that's not exactly what I said. There are many things that cancel > out. > Hi Bill, can you explain this statement from Rod Baker: Remember, I don't have the 2 cylinders rotating, I'm holding them in my hand.... I have one upside down (as it would be on the left side of the design) and one right side up ... Now I hold the left one about 18" higher than the right one to simulate the drawing ... all the liquid (about 3 ounces, it is quite small) shoots up to the top cylinder in about 1 sec... now I twist my arms so that the left cylinder is now the lower cylinder and upside down... the reverse for the other cylinder...the liquid shoots up again... I do this over and over until my arms are tired :) Now when I get the other cylinders done, they will complete the loop.... Rod === Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 26 06:23:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA20002; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 06:23:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 06:23:00 -0700 Message-ID: <3774D8B0.509CAC1D@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 09:42:08 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: More Info on the Gravity Wheel References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dcn611.0.Ru4.pGDTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10970 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > > > There are five energy-effects here: > > 1. the two metal pistons which fall and push the water up the hose > > 2. the water trying to fall down the hose, but which gets lifted > by the pistons instead > > 3. The friction that brakes the pistons to a halt and eats the > difference between 1 and 2 > > 4. the two pistons which *essentially* get lifted whenever the > chain rotates by one step. > > 5. the water of the single full cylinder which *essentially* moves > downwards to the lowest postion each time the chain rotates once > (I cut the rest... Don't need to keep recycling messages ;) I liked your response a lot and it echoes my opinion. I can't see how any "mechanical" device can produce more energy than it takes to go through one cycle. I just don't see how the "mechanical" device is "tapping into" any kind of "new" energy source. Gravity, at the level of mechanical devices (as opposed to quantum, vacuum structure level) only produces kinetic effects. We've got a system of mathematical description for this level of mechanics which works *very* well. And no over unity effects have been calculated. So either there is another energy input source (which takes us out of the "classical" mechanics realm) or the mathematics is wrong for this level of mechanics. I don't see any new or additional energy source (could be I am blind) and I think we've had *so much* experience with this level of mathematical description of mechanics that I don't think the mathematics is at fault. But I am willing to learn.... Show me something new! Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 26 06:34:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA22064; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 06:34:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 06:34:21 -0700 Message-ID: <3774DB5B.F4543DCD@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 09:53:31 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity converter works ? References: <415ecdab.24a5c077@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Kat-F.0.fO5.SRDTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10971 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry, but I can't follow what your saying here. Grod123456@aol.com wrote: > Nope...A wheel won't work mathematically speaking... because weight has a > different torque on the axis due to the distance between the piston and the > axis...and also the angle of the piston in relation to the axis... > For example a weight weighing one pound will have a torque of 1 lb The "torque" will be 1 lb times the distance from the pivot axis. So "torque" would be, for example, 1 lb yard if the level arm is 1 yard in length. (at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions) > to the > axis at the 3 oclock position and the 9 oclock position... this same weight > will have a weight of Zero pounds at the 12 oclock and the 6 oclock > position... The "weight" would be the same, wouldn't it, but the torque would be different. > There is a geometric formula to figure this out.... > Rod I don't think torque is any big deal. Nothing special in torques. What needs to be looked at is energy. Look at the total energy of the device in each of its positions. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 26 06:48:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA26333; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 06:48:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 06:48:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3774DE91.6613F993@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:07:13 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: More Info on the Gravity Wheel References: <3774A109.F49AFCC8@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4dWYp3.0.5R6.HeDTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10972 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > Remember, I don't have the 2 cylinders rotating, I'm holding them in my > hand.... I have one upside down (as it would be on the left side of the > design) and one right side up ... Now I hold the left one about 18" > higher > than the right one to simulate the drawing ... all the liquid (about 3 > ounces, it is quite small) shoots up to the top cylinder in about 1 > sec... > now I twist my arms so that the left cylinder is now the lower cylinder > and > upside down... > the reverse for the other cylinder...the liquid shoots up > again... But you have lost energy to friction all over the place. The liquid is not frictionless, so you loose energy as the liquid flows. And any kind of re-orientation of the cylinders will result in a lose of energy. So, where is the energy coming from to make up for these loses? The total energy will always be less, unless you have some other energy input. When you move mass from one position/place to another, whether its left to right or up and down, you will always lose energy. At best, and only theoreticaly, you will break even. If you have 2 tanks of water, one higher then the other, you can make the water in the lower go into the upper tank. But only if you supply more energy then the total energy of all the water in the upper tank. So you have lost energy. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 26 07:26:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA08763; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 07:26:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 07:26:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3774E33E.AAC1208@harti.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 16:27:10 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Newman-L Mailing List , William Beaty , Grod123456@aol.com Subject: Re: Gravity converter, it does not work ! X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <3774A109.F49AFCC8@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JNwWT3.0.q82.HCETt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10973 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I have updated the page again ! It can not work. http://www.overunity.com/gravcon/ Rod is just adding energy by twisting his arms. He did not realize this. Have a look at the page. Best regards, Stefan. Stefan Hartmann schrieb: > > William Beaty schrieb: > > > > On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 Grod123456@aol.com wrote: > > > > > One more thing to address: someone mentioned that the 2 sides would cancel > > > each other out...the answer to that would be no... > > > > Nope, that's not exactly what I said. There are many things that cancel > > out. > > > > Hi Bill, > can you > explain this statement from Rod Baker: > > Remember, I don't have the 2 cylinders rotating, I'm holding them in my > hand.... I have one upside down (as it would be on the left side of the > design) and one right side up ... Now I hold the left one about 18" > higher > than the right one to simulate the drawing ... all the liquid (about 3 > ounces, it is quite small) shoots up to the top cylinder in about 1 > sec... > now I twist my arms so that the left cylinder is now the lower cylinder > and > upside down... the reverse for the other cylinder...the liquid shoots up > again... I do this over and over until my arms are tired :) Now when I > get > the other cylinders done, they will complete the loop.... > Rod > > === > > Regards, Stefan. > > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. In. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 26 13:00:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA03392; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 12:59:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 12:59:12 -0700 Message-ID: <37753570.A3CDD0BE@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 16:17:52 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: VACE costs References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990617220857.238fe1a2@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990618082819.264700ce@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990622210600.2397eff8@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mvzDt.0.rq.G4JTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10974 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The latest cost estimate I have to make **one** VACE out of bonded Neodymium Iron Boron material is....$250. You will need 2 of these to test Ampere's force equation. So, it will cost approximately $500 to *start* any testing on the VACE idea. The VACEs will be made out of 20 sections each. (I can find no way to make a VACE out of one piece using Neo magnets because the magnetization is not possible with a small inner diameter on the VACEs.) Because its made out of sections, there will be some "flux leakage". I have no idea how bad the leakage will be. Anyone willing to spend that kind of money on VACEs, let me know. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 26 14:13:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA17901; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 14:12:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 14:12:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 14:12:54 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: More Info on the Gravity Wheel In-Reply-To: <3774A109.F49AFCC8@harti.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"7YuXc3.0.cN4.N9KTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10975 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Hi Bill, > can you > explain this statement from Rod Baker: > > > Remember, I don't have the 2 cylinders rotating, I'm holding them in my > hand.... I have one upside down (as it would be on the left side of the > design) and one right side up ... Now I hold the left one about 18" > higher > than the right one to simulate the drawing ... all the liquid (about 3 > ounces, it is quite small) shoots up to the top cylinder in about 1 > sec... > now I twist my arms so that the left cylinder is now the lower cylinder > and > upside down... the reverse for the other cylinder...the liquid shoots up > again... I do this over and over until my arms are tired :) Now when I > get > the other cylinders done, they will complete the loop.... > Rod Sure. I think I understand the device. The above message sounds exactly like the operation of Wiseman's chain-wheel thing. The weights fall down, which gives out energy. The water is lifted, which takes in enery and stores it. Turning the cylinders upside-down, as well as reversing their position, does one very important thing: it essentially lifts the pistons back to the tops of their cylinders. If the pistons are LOTS heavier than the water, then turning them upside-down should take quite a bit of work. It should take more work than lifting the water up to the top cylinder. Think like this: if there was no water, then if we lower one entire cylinder while raising the other at the same time, it should take no energy. But turning both of the empty cylinders upside-down DOES take energy, because it puts the weights back to the top of each one. Now think of the cylinders with water but no pistons. If the water is in the upper cylinder, then lowering that cylinder while raising the other one must give us back some energy. In the actual machine, we can use this energy from the falling water to help lift the heavy pistons back to the tops of the cylinders. The central fact here: lowering those pistons through one cylinder-length MUST give out MORE energy than raising the water all the way up to the top of the chain. If it didn't, then the pistons couldn't lift the water in the first place. If the water friction was very low, and if the weight of the pistons was adjusted so they would fall very slowly, then it would take very little energy to force the whole device to turn. On the other hand, if the pistons fall with a big thump, and if they are braked to a halt by "inelastic" properties of the cylinders and the hose, then that eats a lot of energy, and the whole device should be very hard to manually turn. If it's possible to tap gravitational energy, then we need some sort of nonlinear effect. Like in the movie "Flubber", where strange things happen during the huge transient forces of impact, and so the rubber ball bounces higher and higher. Or like a gyroscope which weighs one amount on its way down the chain, but has a smaller weight on its way back up. Physicists don't like "antigravity" experiments because, if they are successful, they probably lead to a free energy device. Make one side of a huge wheel weigh slightly less, and the wheel will turn faster and faster. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 26 20:11:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14848; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:11:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:11:12 -0700 Message-ID: <002301bec04b$15aea5c0$80a645d1@nimmachine> From: "Psy-Kosh" To: References: <3774D8B0.509CAC1D@servtech.com> Subject: Re: More Info on the Gravity Wheel Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:13:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"VYIic1.0.vd3.GPPTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10976 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A mechanical device may be able to generate negative entropy effects, which I, for one, would consider a good thing. Psy-Kosh DC2.!(scientist)/?(?(H)) r++/r+++! Gm a- s++ u-.5 (Carestaff member) "The scientist who would rather refute than comprehend demonstrates he has chosen the wrong calling." -The Forever Machine ------------------------------------------------ > I liked your response a lot and it echoes my opinion. I can't see how > any "mechanical" device can produce more energy than it takes to > go through one cycle. I just don't see how the "mechanical" device > is "tapping into" any kind of "new" energy source. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 26 20:21:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA18339; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:20:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:20:39 -0700 Message-ID: <37756EB6.42B1@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:22:15 -0400 From: Alik Shereshevsky Reply-To: alik@intergate.bc.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VACE costs References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990617220857.238fe1a2@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990618082819.264700ce@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990622210600.2397eff8@earthlink.net> <37753570.A3CDD0BE@servtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"54EE22.0.SU4.7YPTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10977 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robert Gray wrote: > > The latest cost estimate I have to make **one** VACE out of > bonded Neodymium Iron Boron material is....$250. You can buy a VACE TV-antenna from IAS Communications for less than that, check iascom.com. :-)))) There is a bunch of patents for it under Counterwound toroidal helical antenna, issued to U of W-Virginia. Jokes aside, this thing is like a toroidal smith/caduceus coil and so far it has kept everyone puzzled with multiple resonances like Smith coil. Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 26 20:46:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24065; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:46:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:46:04 -0700 Message-ID: <37759DFD.31DAFC38@net-serv.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:43:57 -0500 From: Chad May Reply-To: chadmay@net-serv.com Organization: I'm not organized! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fe Subject: Geet: network/mail-list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NklV8.0.st5.xvPTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10978 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, My name is Chad May and I have been following FE for 10 years now. I would like to network with others on the "Geet" invention. If there exists no mail-list, newsgroup, or web-board already for high-mileage carburetors, I would like to set one up. I have written email to pms@geet.com asking for more information. They might be swamped at the time. I am an optimist but I have also watched many inventions come and go in the last 10 yrs. I successfully ran my VW engine with cold vapors ala Tom Ogle. That much is possible. I would like to investigate Paul Pantone's claims. I would like to buy his plans, as planned for in my family budget. But before I buy it would be good to talk to others who have bought his plans. email me at chadmay@net-serv.com All the best, Chad May From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jun 26 22:32:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA09246; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:32:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:32:14 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990626210337.224722f0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:03:37 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: VACE costs In-Reply-To: <37753570.A3CDD0BE@servtech.com> References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990617220857.238fe1a2@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990618082819.264700ce@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990622210600.2397eff8@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_O2QM3.0.NG2.UTRTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10979 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob and all, At 04:17 PM 6/26/99 -0400, you wrote: > >The latest cost estimate I have to make **one** VACE out of >bonded Neodymium Iron Boron material is....$250. > >You will need 2 of these to test Ampere's force equation. Is it poled correctly fot that price? That amount seems high for my budget. Can you please give some more details? I can buy 20 neodym. magnets about 4mm thick for $1 each. I do not know how much 20 steel wedges (18 degrees) would cost to machine. Would this be similar to your approach? A magnet guy on ebay sometimes sells neodym. magnet rings, but they appear harder to repole than even ceramic ones. $5 each. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 27 06:31:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA08324; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 06:31:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 06:31:28 -0700 Message-ID: <001201bec0a1$c7eb3220$15684fc6@default> From: "mrand@access" To: Cc: "freenrg-l" Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 06:34:23 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"shSEo1.0.z12.lUYTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10980 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Chad, Please include me in a GEET dicusion group. I just heard that the output from a 5 kw generator set fueled by 80% seawater to 20% crude oil fuel was calculated to be under $0.02/kwh. This is lower than the 5 to 10 cents/kwh "avoided cost" for California electric utilities. This would be a cost breakthrough. There is a large demand for low cost electricity here in California and worldwide. Regards, Michael Randall -----Original Message----- From: Chad May To: fe Date: Saturday, June 26, 1999 8:37 PM Subject: Geet: network/mail-list >Dear All, > >My name is Chad May and I have been following FE for 10 years now. > >I would like to network with others on the "Geet" invention. > >If there exists no mail-list, newsgroup, or web-board already for >high-mileage carburetors, I would like to set one up. > >I have written email to pms@geet.com asking for more information. They >might be swamped at the time. I am an optimist but I have also watched >many inventions come and go in the last 10 yrs. > >I successfully ran my VW engine with cold vapors ala Tom Ogle. That >much is possible. I would like to investigate Paul Pantone's claims. > >I would like to buy his plans, as planned for in my family budget. But >before I buy it would be good to talk to others who have bought his >plans. > >email me at chadmay@net-serv.com > >All the best, > >Chad May > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 27 12:35:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA31435; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 12:34:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 12:34:43 -0700 Message-ID: <37767C4B.B38DB821@net-serv.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 14:32:27 -0500 From: Chad May Reply-To: chadmay@net-serv.com Organization: I'm not organized! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pms@geet.com, fe , prof_shields@hotmail.com Subject: Geet: making money from energy inventions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"byfKj.0.4h7.JpdTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10981 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: An excerpt from a web-page of Bob Paddock: http://www.csonline.net/bpaddock//amin/amincyc.htm "..Many of these early ideas did improve the steam engine considerably, especially those of the Scottish inventor James Watt, who patented the first really efficient steam engine in 1769. Watts engine was so efficient that he was able to give it away rather than sell it directly. All the users of the engines had to pay Watt was the money saved on fuel costs for the first three years of operation of the engine. Watt and his partner Matthew Boulton became wealthy, and the Industrial Revolution in England received a tremendous boost from a new source of cheap power... " Just spreading the word... Chad May From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 27 22:23:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA20908; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:23:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:23:21 -0700 From: PetMagic@aol.com Message-ID: <42522bb6.24a86091@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:22:25 EDT Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"HYY7B3.0.b65.8RmTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10983 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/27/99 8:32:46 AM Central Daylight Time, mrand@iols.net writes: > Hi Chad, > > Please include me in a GEET dicusion group. > Hi Chad, I've visited Paul Pantone 2 years ago and was impressed by his shop and 5kw generators. I drove in the converted Van with his dealer Al Thor(....) in Denver . I boughtg the carburator plans, but did not get to use them for lack of time. I hear through my f From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 27 22:23:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA20893; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:23:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:23:20 -0700 From: PetMagic@aol.com Message-ID: <8f310097.24a8609e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:22:38 EDT Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"72t5R1.0.A65.7RmTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10982 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/27/99 8:32:46 AM Central Daylight Time, mrand@iols.net writes: > Hi Chad, > > Please include me in a GEET dicusion group. > Hi Chad, I've visited Paul Pantone 2 years ago and was impressed by his shop and 5kw generators. I drove in the converted Van with his dealer Al Thor(....) in Denver . I boughtg the carburator plans, but did not get to use them for lack of time. I hear through my f From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 27 22:24:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA20954; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:23:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:23:26 -0700 From: PetMagic@aol.com Message-ID: <81110928.24a8609b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:22:35 EDT Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"d6RZk2.0.E75.DRmTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10984 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/27/99 8:32:46 AM Central Daylight Time, mrand@iols.net writes: > Hi Chad, > > Please include me in a GEET dicusion group. > Hi Chad, I've visited Paul Pantone 2 years ago and was impressed by his shop and 5kw generators. I drove in the converted Van with his dealer Al Thor(....) in Denver . I boughtg the carburator plans, but did not get to use them for lack of time. I hear through my f From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 27 22:24:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA21057; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:23:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:23:47 -0700 From: PetMagic@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:22:40 EDT Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"sGSZz2.0.t85.YRmTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10985 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/27/99 8:32:46 AM Central Daylight Time, mrand@iols.net writes: > Hi Chad, > > Please include me in a GEET dicusion group. > Hi Chad, I've visited Paul Pantone 2 years ago and was impressed by his shop and 5kw generators. I drove in the converted Van with his dealer Al Thor(....) in Denver . I boughtg the carburator plans, but did not get to use them for lack of time. I hear through my f From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 27 22:24:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA21254; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:24:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:24:02 -0700 From: PetMagic@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:22:28 EDT Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ig_gc.0.nB5.mRmTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10987 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/27/99 8:32:46 AM Central Daylight Time, mrand@iols.net writes: > Hi Chad, > > Please include me in a GEET dicusion group. > Hi Chad, I've visited Paul Pantone 2 years ago and was impressed by his shop and 5kw generators. I drove in the converted Van with his dealer Al Thor(....) in Denver . I boughtg the carburator plans, but did not get to use them for lack of time. I hear through my f From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 27 22:24:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA21195; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:23:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:23:58 -0700 From: PetMagic@aol.com Message-ID: <5f98efa5.24a86096@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:22:30 EDT Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ye8893.0.XA5.iRmTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10986 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/27/99 8:32:46 AM Central Daylight Time, mrand@iols.net writes: > Hi Chad, > > Please include me in a GEET dicusion group. > Hi Chad, I've visited Paul Pantone 2 years ago and was impressed by his shop and 5kw generators. I drove in the converted Van with his dealer Al Thor(....) in Denver . I boughtg the carburator plans, but did not get to use them for lack of time. I hear through my f From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 27 22:25:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA22723; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:24:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:24:53 -0700 From: PetMagic@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:22:32 EDT Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"QORBR2.0.mY5.aSmTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10988 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/27/99 8:32:46 AM Central Daylight Time, mrand@iols.net writes: > Hi Chad, > > Please include me in a GEET dicusion group. > Hi Chad, I've visited Paul Pantone 2 years ago and was impressed by his shop and 5kw generators. I drove in the converted Van with his dealer Al Thor(....) in Denver . I boughtg the carburator plans, but did not get to use them for lack of time. I hear through my f From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 27 22:28:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA26056; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:27:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:27:45 -0700 From: PetMagic@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:23:48 EDT Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"k-ELi3.0.1N6.GVmTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10989 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 6/27/99 8:32:46 AM Central Daylight Time, mrand@iols.net writes: > Hi Chad, > > Please include me in a GEET dicusion group. > Hi Chad, I've visited Paul Pantone 2 years ago and was impressed by his shop and 5kw generators. I drove in the converted Van with his dealer Al Thor(....) in Denver . I boughtg the carburator plans, but did not get to use them for lack of time. I hear through my friend Rus Rosser, that they have a large lineup of related products now. Paul and family are mostly on tour now. Peter From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 27 22:42:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA32580; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:41:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:41:57 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990628014226.00e973a0@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:42:26 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna with Ultra Wideband radio? (was Re: VACE costs) In-Reply-To: <37756EB6.42B1@intergate.bc.ca> References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990617220857.238fe1a2@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990618082819.264700ce@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990622210600.2397eff8@earthlink.net> <37753570.A3CDD0BE@servtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"c0tKL2.0.zy7.bimTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10990 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To All, Here are some patent numbers for that Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna {for those interested}: Not exactly a VACE-- but a very efficient antenna indeed. I have been wondering if that super toroidal antenna is compatible with the incredible efficiencies of Ultra Wide Band Radio. See Time Domain's "Technology Overview" at: Comments? Colin Quinney At 08:22 PM 06/26/99 -0400, you wrote: >Robert Gray wrote: >> >> The latest cost estimate I have to make **one** VACE out of >> bonded Neodymium Iron Boron material is....$250. > >You can buy a VACE TV-antenna from IAS Communications >for less than that, check iascom.com. :-)))) > >There is a bunch of patents for it under Counterwound toroidal helical >antenna, issued to U of W-Virginia. Jokes aside, this >thing is like a toroidal smith/caduceus coil and so far it has >kept everyone puzzled with multiple resonances like Smith coil. > >Alik S. > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jun 27 23:24:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA07091; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:23:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:23:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:23:21 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Rex Research almost online In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990628014226.00e973a0@inforamp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"317X31.0.ik1.SJnTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10991 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just saw a message from Bob Paddock mentioning that the Rex Research infolio list is online. See: http://www.biogate.com/rexresearch ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 28 04:41:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA28884; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:40:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:40:53 -0700 Message-ID: <37775EC9.C7B8AE8B@net-serv.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:38:49 -0500 From: Chad May Reply-To: chadmay@net-serv.com Organization: I'm not organized! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"seLzN.0.937.5zrTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10992 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Regarding a mailing list and networking of those interested in GEET: Four people have written to me so far wanting to be on a list. I will wait to see if there exists such a list. I have also written to pms@geet.com with this suggestion... would like for them to respond. I have a stationary VW 1600 air-cooled engine with which to experiment. My partner-in-crime is a top machinist. I'm hopeful that something ground-breaking can come of this. I'll write again in a few days and try to have a list started by the end of the week. What about using a dual-stage vortex chamber? So many possibilities. Thanks to all who have/will respond. Chad May From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 28 09:02:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA15967; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:58:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:58:12 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:57:52 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:50:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list In-reply-to: <37775EC9.C7B8AE8B@net-serv.com> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2105ZXZIH32T4 X400-MTS-identifier: [;25751182609991/3829655@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"TxSet3.0.Kv3.JkvTt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10993 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chad, I too would be interested in a discussion group. I have tried to contact the distributer for my area, my email was returned as undeliverable. So I don't know if they are still even working with it. I also tried emailing the head office a number of times with no response. I want to get a GEET for my car and my diesel generator. Anyone who can get them to respond to inquiries would be greatly appreciated. By the way, where are you located? Bill webriggs@concentric.net briggs@XLNsystems.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 28 17:48:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA27187; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:48:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:48:21 -0700 Message-ID: <37781836.7721BBAA@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:49:58 -0700 From: alik X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna with Ultra Wideband radio? (was Re: VACE costs) References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990617220857.238fe1a2@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990618082819.264700ce@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990622210600.2397eff8@earthlink.net> <37753570.A3CDD0BE@servtech.com> <3.0.5.32.19990628014226.00e973a0@inforamp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iEUi-1.0.ee6.LV1Ut"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10994 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Quinney wrote: > To All, > > Here are some patent numbers for that Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna > {for those interested}: > > > > Not exactly a VACE-- but a very efficient antenna indeed. > > I have been wondering if that super toroidal antenna is compatible with the > incredible efficiencies of Ultra Wide Band Radio. > See Time Domain's "Technology Overview" at: > > > Comments? > > Colin Quinney > I think there are couple more patents. These antennas are not all that great for very wideband use. They do however occasionally outperform anything else out there (like very large dipoles). I think it is due to the same effect that makes smith-coil an interesting antenna. How do you see it being different from a VACE ? The original idea was to create a perfect little donut of magnetic flux while cancelling out electric fields around the toroid. The result was supposed to be an electric field running along the axis of the toroid semi-equivalent to a dipole with voltage across it. Alik S. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 28 21:05:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA29833; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:05:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:05:22 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990629000552.01198100@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 00:05:52 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna with Ultra Wideband radio? (was Re: VACE costs) In-Reply-To: <37781836.7721BBAA@intergate.bc.ca> References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990617220857.238fe1a2@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990618082819.264700ce@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990622210600.2397eff8@earthlink.net> <37753570.A3CDD0BE@servtech.com> <3.0.5.32.19990628014226.00e973a0@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Of7M43.0.1I7.2O4Ut"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10995 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To All, At 05:49 PM 06/28/99 -0700, Alik wrote: >Quinney wrote: >> Here are some patent numbers for that Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna >> {for those interested}: >> >> >> >> Not exactly a VACE-- but a very efficient antenna indeed. >> >> I have been wondering if that super toroidal antenna is compatible with the >> incredible efficiencies of Ultra Wide Band Radio. >> See Time Domain's "Technology Overview" at: >> > > >I think there are couple more patents. These antennas are not all that great >for >very wideband use. They do however occasionally outperform anything else out >there (like very large dipoles). I think it is due to the same effect that >makes smith-coil >an interesting antenna. >Alik S. Good old Smith. May he rest in peace :-) Yes. I also think there are more patents. Strangely, it took me a while to trace those two patents. I had to do it back from the assignee, West Virginia University. I'd love to purchase stock in Time Domain, but they are not yet a public company. I can foresee Ultra Wide Band's future in global cell phone technology (i.e: Iridium satellite cell phones. Iridium uses 65 satellites with current cell technology to DBS anywhere on the planet. Costs about $5.00 per minute for usage, but great if you are a prospector, or the CEO at your cottage. Imagine how much more effective UWB would be.) Yes. The Smith coil has many resonances. I imagine it's possibly a good wide band antenna. Within the tech section of Time Domain's Web Site (or was it one of the patents?) reference was made to their antenna's response: 0.5 to approximately 45 MHz. That seemed pretty wide band. The impedances must be low if self cancelling windings are employed-- and I assume low impedance antennas for fast rise time pulses in Ultra Wide Band.. >How do you see it being different from a VACE ? The original idea was to create >a perfect little donut of magnetic flux while cancelling out electric fields >around the toroid. The result was supposed to be an electric field running >along the axis of the toroid semi-equivalent to a dipole with voltage across >it. > In the sense that the VACE is a static non-cancelling primary field, whereas we are referencing secondary time dependent fields that cancel. In the VACE, I understand the static magnetic field (PM) gives rise to a virtual current that is not electrically real. In an electromagnet toroid, there should also arise a VACE *similar* to a Permanent Magnet VACE-- but that experiment has not been done [unless David has done it]. Even if a VACE arises from an electromagnet toroid, those antennas are sets of self cancelling *alternating* coils. IMO, there are just too many variables to consider them as VACEs. But I understand your meaning-- you are simply referring to opposing VACEs from opposing variable magnetic fields? I think Tom Beardon might have something to say about those antenna configurations, and why they are so efficient in creating or detecting Electromagnetic Fields [whose wavelengths are so much greater than the toroid aperture or the resonant electrical lengths of the coils]. I find the subject interesting, but on reading Beardon, it is too advanced for me. Perhaps someone could explain it in simpler terms? Colin Q. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 28 22:11:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA21414; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:11:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:11:30 -0700 Message-ID: <377855E2.5DCB3DA8@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:13:06 -0700 From: alik X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna with Ultra Wideband radio? (was Re: VACE costs) References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990617220857.238fe1a2@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990618082819.264700ce@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990622210600.2397eff8@earthlink.net> <37753570.A3CDD0BE@servtech.com> <3.0.5.32.19990628014226.00e973a0@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990629000552.01198100@inforamp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JcxtV1.0.VE5.1M5Ut"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10996 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Quinney wrote: > > > Good old Smith. May he rest in peace :-) He has been doing that for a while. > Yes. I also think there are more patents. Strangely, it took me a while to > trace those two patents. I had to do it back from the assignee, West > Virginia University. Look for Vanvoorhies. > I'd love to purchase stock in Time Domain, but they > are not yet a public company. FCC just aprooved some UWB stuff for general use - see Aviation Week > The impedances must be low if self cancelling windings are employed-- and I > assume low impedance antennas for fast rise time pulses in Ultra Wide Band.. There is no self-cancelling that you are thinking about in ctha L's add-up. > But I understand your meaning-- you are simply > referring to opposing VACEs from opposing variable magnetic fields? > > I think Tom Beardon might have something to say about those antenna > configurations, and why they are so efficient in creating or detecting > Electromagnetic Fields [whose wavelengths are so much greater than the > toroid aperture or the resonant electrical lengths of the coils]. I find > the subject interesting, but on reading Beardon, it is too advanced for me. > Perhaps someone could explain it in simpler terms? > > Colin Q. > Nope :-) The windings in S-coil and CTHA have their H's add-up and only E's cancel. There is a popular misconception that S-coil is non inductive - it is wrong. Windings that are counterwound AND have currents in opposite direction as ctha and s-coil do, are inductive. The guys that made ctha tried to make a nice little magnetic dounut with no stray electric fields (except for the one resulting from dB/dt aroud toroid). In the process they may have made something more interesting. Alik S. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 28 22:43:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA30487; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:42:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:42:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990628211548.2277a7e2@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:15:48 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna with Ultra Wideband radio? (was Re: VACE costs) In-Reply-To: <377855E2.5DCB3DA8@intergate.bc.ca> References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990617220857.238fe1a2@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990618082819.264700ce@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990622210600.2397eff8@earthlink.net> <37753570.A3CDD0BE@servtech.com> <3.0.5.32.19990628014226.00e973a0@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990629000552.01198100@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hVZUh2.0.GS7.Ip5Ut"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10997 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:13 PM 6/28/99 -0700, Alik wrote: > >The windings in S-coil and CTHA have their H's add-up and only E's cancel. >There is a popular misconception that S-coil is non inductive - it is wrong. >Windings that are counterwound AND have currents in opposite direction >as ctha and s-coil do, are inductive. Yes, just like a normal 2 layer solenoid which also is "contrawound". > >The guys that made ctha tried to make a nice little magnetic dounut with no >stray electric fields (except for the one resulting from dB/dt aroud toroid). > >In the process they may have made something more interesting. > This sounds interesting, where can I find more info. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jun 28 23:11:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA05827; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:11:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:11:11 -0700 Message-ID: <377863DE.EB583DB1@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:12:46 -0700 From: alik X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna with Ultra Wideband radio? (was Re: VACE costs) References: <872e9b40.2495606d@aol.com> <3.0.6.16.19990613224646.1fffd1c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990614101318.239fd990@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990617220857.238fe1a2@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990618082819.264700ce@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19990622210600.2397eff8@earthlink.net> <37753570.A3CDD0BE@servtech.com> <3.0.5.32.19990628014226.00e973a0@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990629000552.01198100@inforamp.net> <377855E2.5DCB3DA8@intergate.bc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jST3j.0.uQ1.zD6Ut"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10998 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > I think Tom Beardon might have something to say about those antenna > configurations, and why they are so efficient in creating or detecting > Electromagnetic Fields [whose wavelengths are so much greater than the > toroid aperture or the resonant electrical lengths of the coils]. Actually it likes having the wire lenght equal to wavelenght or 1/2wavelenght- see patents. I know the guys that are working on the ctha and they are not treating it as 'weird sci' , so when it does something weird everyone is thoroughly puzzled. Sometimes it seriously outperforms conventional antennas. UWV is completely cluless and do not know a thing about S-coil. > I find > the subject interesting, but on reading Beardon, it is too advanced for me. > Perhaps someone could explain it in simpler terms? I think it would have to be someone other than Bearden. If he was right every phased-array radar would be the focal point of poltergeist activity - the beam is created by cancellation of EMs in one direction so they will head in another. I do not know where TB got his ideas, but usually when EMs are cancelling out they do not miraculously disappear but go somewhere else. This is how antireflection coatings on camera lenses work. So here is a question: has anyone ever seen EM energy 'cancel out' without showing up somewhere else in the immediate vicinity ? Alik S. > > > Colin Q. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 29 04:49:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA12598; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 04:49:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 04:49:20 -0700 From: PetMagic@aol.com Message-ID: <4255777a.24aa0c36@aol.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:47:02 EDT Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list To: chadmay@net-serv.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <"eGAG33.0.l43.0BBUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10999 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Chad, Be sure to use the materials specified. Appearantly there is a magnetic field produced by the high voltage accompanieng fast moving gases. That's the field that "pre-digests" the fuel particles. Peter From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 29 04:59:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA14645; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 04:59:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 04:59:38 -0700 Message-ID: Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "FREE ENERGY" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Mike Connolly" Date: Tue, 29 Jun 99 06:59:48 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"D04lh.0.ka3.gKBUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11000 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: what's the scoop about the hutchinson guy doing tesla high-voltage "levitations"? he was featured on a learning channel show last night thanks G'DAY! Mike Connolly Bulk Feed Tank Product Manager GRAIN SYSTEMS, INC. P.O. BOX 20 Assumption, IL 62510 PH: 217.226.4421 FAX: 217.226.4420 U.S. FAX: 800.800.5329 E-MAIL: mconnolly@grainsystems.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 29 07:40:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA03190; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:37:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:37:45 -0700 Message-ID: <001a01bec23c$7efd2c20$35dc82d1@felis> From: "Felis Catus" To: Subject: Re: Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna with Ultra Wideband radio? (was Re: VACE costs) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:34:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"YSJ7C1.0.ln.ueDUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11001 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, As an Amateur Radio Operator(WA2YIX), i am interested. Can you cite for me any media/internet articles on this new antenna invention? felis catus felis@frontiernet.net 6/29/99 -----Original Message----- From: Quinney To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 12:10 AM Subject: Re: Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna with Ultra Wideband radio? (was Re: VACE costs) >To All, >At 05:49 PM 06/28/99 -0700, Alik wrote: >>Quinney wrote: >>> Here are some patent numbers for that Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna >>> {for those interested}: >>> >>> >>> >>> Not exactly a VACE-- but a very efficient antenna indeed. >>> >>> I have been wondering if that super toroidal antenna is compatible with the >>> incredible efficiencies of Ultra Wide Band Radio. >>> See Time Domain's "Technology Overview" at: >>> >> >> >>I think there are couple more patents. These antennas are not all that great >>for >>very wideband use. They do however occasionally outperform anything else out >>there (like very large dipoles). I think it is due to the same effect that >>makes smith-coil >>an interesting antenna. >>Alik S. > >Good old Smith. May he rest in peace :-) >Yes. I also think there are more patents. Strangely, it took me a while to >trace those two patents. I had to do it back from the assignee, West >Virginia University. I'd love to purchase stock in Time Domain, but they >are not yet a public company. I can foresee Ultra Wide Band's future in >global cell phone technology (i.e: Iridium satellite cell phones. Iridium >uses 65 satellites with current cell technology to DBS anywhere on the >planet. Costs about $5.00 per minute for usage, but great if you are a >prospector, or the CEO at your cottage. Imagine how much more effective UWB >would be.) > >Yes. The Smith coil has many resonances. I imagine it's possibly a good >wide band antenna. > >Within the tech section of Time Domain's Web Site (or was it one of the >patents?) reference was made to their antenna's response: 0.5 to >approximately 45 MHz. That seemed pretty wide band. The impedances must be >low if self cancelling windings are employed-- and I assume low impedance >antennas for fast rise time pulses in Ultra Wide Band.. > >>How do you see it being different from a VACE ? The original idea was to >create >>a perfect little donut of magnetic flux while cancelling out electric fields >>around the toroid. The result was supposed to be an electric field running >>along the axis of the toroid semi-equivalent to a dipole with voltage across >>it. >> > >In the sense that the VACE is a static non-cancelling primary field, >whereas we are referencing secondary time dependent fields that cancel. In >the VACE, I understand the static magnetic field (PM) gives rise to a >virtual current that is not electrically real. In an electromagnet toroid, >there should also arise a VACE *similar* to a Permanent Magnet VACE-- but >that experiment has not been done [unless David has done it]. Even if a >VACE arises from an electromagnet toroid, those antennas are sets of self >cancelling *alternating* coils. IMO, there are just too many variables to >consider them as VACEs. But I understand your meaning-- you are simply >referring to opposing VACEs from opposing variable magnetic fields? > >I think Tom Beardon might have something to say about those antenna >configurations, and why they are so efficient in creating or detecting >Electromagnetic Fields [whose wavelengths are so much greater than the >toroid aperture or the resonant electrical lengths of the coils]. I find >the subject interesting, but on reading Beardon, it is too advanced for me. >Perhaps someone could explain it in simpler terms? > >Colin Q. > > >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 29 08:28:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA30019; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:27:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:27:12 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990629112746.00ee5a80@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:27:46 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna with Ultra Wideband radio? (was Re: VACE costs) In-Reply-To: <001a01bec23c$7efd2c20$35dc82d1@felis> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"EIFBn2.0.uK7.FNEUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11002 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:34 AM 06/29/99 -0400, felis catus wrote: >Hi, > As an Amateur Radio Operator(WA2YIX), i am interested. Can you cite for >me any media/internet articles on this new antenna invention? >felis catus felis@frontiernet.net 6/29/99 Click 'News' at , for the antenna. There is an article about it's use with Ham Radio-- March 9. Colin. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 29 08:29:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA30887; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:28:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:28:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3778E687.A1F0F261@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:30:15 -0700 From: alik X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna with Ultra Wideband radio? (was Re: VACE costs) References: <001a01bec23c$7efd2c20$35dc82d1@felis> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FAdjG3.0.WY7.aOEUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11003 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Felis Catus wrote: > Hi, > As an Amateur Radio Operator(WA2YIX), i am interested. Can you cite for > me any media/internet articles on this new antenna invention? Hi Felis Catus, Iascom.com is the web site of IAS communications. You can contact Larry Hawks, who is also a ham, who works with IAS. See their web site. USAF MARS program head borrowed Larry's own antenna at Dayton for some experimenting and just loved it. Also search for the 'fractenna' on Internet. There are some interesting fractal antennas being developed by one co in US. Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 29 11:06:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA19151; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:05:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:05:17 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:04:56 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:05:05 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:49:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna with Ultra Wideband In-reply-to: <001a01bec23c$7efd2c20$35dc82d1@felis> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2111ZXZJK4BXS X400-MTS-identifier: [;65404192609991/3832844@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"hiDMp.0.4h4.ShGUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11004 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Felis, Checkout: WWW.IASCOM.COM The Revolutionary Low Profile Hawks Antenna is a low profile environmentally friendly Television antenna which is only 14" in diameter and 1" thick, receiving all local TV and FM stereo stations within a 60-mile radius, without amplification. Replacing existing rabbit ears and unsightly fishbone antennas, this antenna is easily mounted on a TV or rooftop, inside an attic or recreational vehicle, or behind a satellite dish. Performance, reliability, versatility and ease of installation all combine to underscore what this revolutionary antenna is all about. Ideal for homes, apartments, mobile homes, condos, and offices. The Hawks Antenna eliminates virtually any remaining dead spots. This antenna can be connected to a VCR and will pull in all local (VHF/UHF) stations with clarity equal to a log periodic antenna. Price for the Hawks TV Antenna is $39.95(u.s.d.) $49.95(Cnd.) The amazing IAS Ham type Hawks Antenna receives and transmits a wide range of broadband frequencies (from 0.5 to 54 MHz), while measuring a mere 36 inches in diameter with a height of only two inches. The Hawks technology tuned at 7.2 MHz or 14.2 MHz replaces dipoles of 66 ft and 33 ft long respectively. Price for the Ham type Hawks Antenna is $179.95(u.s.d.) $259.95(Cnd.) I've just ordered the TV version for about $50 after shipping. I'll let everyone know how it works out. Unfortunatly I can only compare it too my rabbit ears antenna that I am currently using. I'll ask around and see if I can send it home with someone else who has a rooftop type TV antenna to compare it against. Bill webriggs@concentric.net briggs@XLNsystems.com Felis wrote: > As an Amateur Radio Operator(WA2YIX), i am interested. Can you cite for >me any media/internet articles on this new antenna invention? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 29 13:44:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02772; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:42:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:42:08 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01bec26f$cab88000$885cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: , Subject: new Bearden book online Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:41:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"4GyZ_1.0.Dh.W-IUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11005 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just found out that Warren York is hosting a new (some parts just written a few days ago) book by Tom Bearden at http://personal.bellsouth.net/lig/i/n/infonet/BCover.htm . I haven't had time to read it all, but it seems to be quite detailed and full of references. He has a lot of material I've never seen before on negative resistors, as well as new conspiracy claims. (I was wondering what ever happened to the Kawai motor; apparently the Yakuza got their hands on it!) -- Secretary, Williamsport Area Computer Club Member, Susquehanna Valley Amateur Astronomers Personal Home Page: http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 29 13:55:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA05664; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:54:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:54:36 -0700 Message-ID: <001601bec271$8d6d5c00$885cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna with Ultra Wideband Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:54:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"9lhEY1.0.PO1.CAJUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11006 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here's an interesting quote from the website, speaking about using a CTHA to transmit: "Evidence points to the ability of the HAWKS Antenna's signal to actually ride the Earth's magnetic field near or just below the surface, allowing broadcasts to reach the far side of obstacles (such as mountains) that have traditionally hampered conventional antenna." Something a little odd going on, eh? -- Secretary, Williamsport Area Computer Club Member, Susquehanna Valley Amateur Astronomers Personal Home Page: http://woodstock.csrlink.net/~jshaffer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 29 15:34:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA12641; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:32:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:32:29 -0700 Message-ID: <37794974.5CCDF2FD@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 01:32:20 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: new Bearden book online References: <000d01bec26f$cab88000$885cadd1@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"isv1g1.0.Q53.ybKUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11007 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, The "Offline Explorer" program is very useful to download multiple pages documents, especially if images are embedded on html pages. Many times manually saving images within html pages does not work as the embedded images are originally reside on differen t directories. This program is small, work incredibly fast, does not trash windows registry and have many options to accommodate most of cases. It is shareware. http://www.metaproducts.com/mpFrames.html Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 29 16:59:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08043; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:57:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:57:34 -0700 Message-ID: <37795DCF.E6410293@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:59:11 -0700 From: alik X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna with Ultra Wideband References: <001601bec271$8d6d5c00$885cadd1@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"viqs83.0.Vz1.krLUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11008 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote: > Here's an interesting quote from the website, speaking about using a CTHA to > transmit: > > "Evidence points to the ability of the HAWKS Antenna's signal to actually ride > the Earth's magnetic field near or just below the surface, allowing broadcasts > to reach the far side of obstacles (such as mountains) that have traditionally > hampered conventional antenna." > > Something a little odd going on, eh? > > I would not get too excited, because this quote originates from UWV and they simply did not know what to make of this antenna. Sounds like nonsense to me. Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jun 29 23:27:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA19112; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 23:26:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 23:26:31 -0700 Message-ID: <00de01bec2c1$7a287120$649a0fcb@-> From: "Peter Nielsen" To: Subject: Re: Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna with Ultra Wideband radio? (was Re: VACE costs) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:59:53 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"je9EM.0.Wg4.MYRUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11009 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I think it would have to be someone other than Bearden. If he was right >every phased-array radar would be the focal point of poltergeist activity - >the beam is created by cancellation of EMs in one direction so they will >head in another. > That's steering, not cancellation. For a scalar translation to occur, the EM vectors must sum to zero. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 30 00:00:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA24326; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 00:00:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 00:00:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bec2c6$76ee6280$03000004@mrand> From: "mrand" To: , Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 23:17:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"WexAh1.0._x5.-1SUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11010 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Powering internal combustion engines (ICE) with plasma energy, thought GEET technology, this field is still unexplored and offers exciting possibilites. Regards, Michael Randall -----Original Message----- From: PetMagic@aol.com To: chadmay@net-serv.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 4:41 AM Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list >Hi Chad, > >Be sure to use the materials specified. Appearantly there is a magnetic field >produced by the high voltage accompanieng fast moving gases. That's the field >that "pre-digests" the fuel particles. >Peter > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 30 15:58:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA32316; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:56:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:56:05 -0700 Message-ID: <19990630225647.440.rocketmail@web117.yahoomail.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:56:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Arthur C. Clarke and F/E To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"wIxr23.0.ou7.42gUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11011 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello All, The latest issue of the Secular Humanist magazine "Free Inquiry" has an interview with Arthur C. Clarke. Seems that Clarke seems to think that there's something to what we are all looking for here at Freenrg-L. see http://www.SecularHumanism.org/library/fi/clarke_19_2.html for the article In the meantime, here's the excerpt: "Clarke: I think most of the major changes will be biological, involving advances in DNA research and technologies, among other things. But there's also potentially revolutionary research going on in the physical sciences. The thing that I'm most interested in at the moment is the so-called Infinite Energy solution - the possibility of finding new ways of tapping into virtually limitless sources of energy. It's been about ten years since cold fusion was touted and then laughed at. But since then there's been a groundswell of scientific opinion and lots of experimentation suggesting that maybe there's something important going on, that maybe we can solve our energy needs once and for all. This field is subject to hype and disappointment, yet I'm seeing evidence now that hints that we may be on the verge of an energy breakthrough. This would cause a total transformation of our society, an end of the fossil-fuel age and all the geopolitical implications of that. No more worry about global warming; now we start worrying about global cooling. So an energy revolution is the biggest joker in the pack at the moment. FI: Do you think that the breakthrough will be in cold fusion or something different? Clarke: I don't know whether it will come in cold fusion or warm fission or something else. I suspect it might be something totally unexpected-perhaps a way of tapping into quantum fluctuations of space-zero-point energy, as it's sometimes called. Now, this new finding may turn out to be an experimental laboratory curiosity that can't be scaled up. But remember, nuclear power started as a small laboratory curiosity. " === Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 30 18:09:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA13463; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:08:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:08:14 -0700 Message-ID: <377ABFD0.421C1803@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:09:36 -0700 From: alik X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Counterwound Toroidal Helical Antenna with Ultra Wideband radio? (was Re: VACE costs) References: <00de01bec2c1$7a287120$649a0fcb@-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vSyRJ3.0.8I3.zzhUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11012 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Peter Nielsen wrote: > >I think it would have to be someone other than Bearden. If he was right > >every phased-array radar would be the focal point of poltergeist activity - > >the beam is created by cancellation of EMs in one direction so they will > >head in another. > > > > That's steering, not cancellation. For a scalar translation to occur, the EM > vectors must sum to zero. > > Peter Nielsen That is precisely my point. How do you get a 'perfect' cancellation without'cancelled' energy showing up somewhere close-by (like going in another direction) ? Alik S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 30 21:53:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA26603; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:53:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:53:07 -0700 Message-ID: <377AF3BC.96FBCA22@net-serv.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:51:08 -0500 From: Chad May Reply-To: chadmay@net-serv.com Organization: I'm not organized! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZqSQ42.0.aV6.pGlUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11013 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: > > Chad, > > I too would be interested in a discussion group. > > I have tried to contact the distributer for my area, my email was returned as > undeliverable. So I don't know if they are still even working with it. > > I also tried emailing the head office a number of times with no response. > > I want to get a GEET for my car and my diesel generator. > > Anyone who can get them to respond to inquiries would be greatly appreciated. > > By the way, where are you located? > > Bill > webriggs@concentric.net > briggs@XLNsystems.com Dear Bill, I'm located here in Nashville, TN. I'll try and give you a call sometime when and if I'm home some night. Where are you located? I'll try and look-up where 614 is... Chad From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jun 30 22:23:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA05764; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:23:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:23:05 -0700 Message-ID: <377AFAC2.C50678F3@net-serv.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 00:21:06 -0500 From: Chad May Reply-To: chadmay@net-serv.com Organization: I'm not organized! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Geet: network/mail-list References: <000201bec2c6$76ee6280$03000004@mrand> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9yVjL.0.kP1.uilUt"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/11014 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello to you All, I've been working on a small GEET info site on XOOM.com, the free web-page service. Also, I signed-up a mail-list but it will be tomorrow before its ready. Send me your suggestions. Thanks to all who responded. I'm moving now and planning a trip to East Germany and Poland but I should be able to set-aside time for this timely project. No-one from GEET has written me back?! Chad May