From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 1 06:25:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA29691; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 06:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 06:23:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris Malcheski" To: Subject: Re: Self contained HIV supply Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:21:02 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19980701132118.DUVP10210@dialup.csn.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"c2yXw3.0.pF7.XXZcr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5111 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle, Nothing to apologize for! Your subject was "Self contained HV supply," which is perfectly legitimate. This is about my own unique mis-processing of the information coming into my head. :) -- Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 1 08:58:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13200; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 08:53:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 08:53:24 -0700 From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:52:58 -0400 Message-Id: <199807011552.LAA19909@centi.mks.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Self contained HV supply Resent-Message-ID: <"ycRLS.0.2E3.njbcr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5112 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From: "MartyDonna" >Why does people who aren't very smart love making other people seem dumb >and use a lot of technical words for to prove it? 'Technical words' are a part of the English language. If you want to communicate then it is a lot simpler to say "and hook up the HV transformer to the motor run capacitor" than to say "get the [insert long non-technical description of a HV transformer] and hook it up to the [insert long non-technical description of a motor run capacitor]". Your ignorance of the meaning of the 'technical words' reflects more upon you than upon the people using those words. (No matter what you believe, as evidenced by your statement above.) If you want to walk-the-walk, it helps a *lot* if you can talk-the-talk. If you aren't willing to spend the time to educate yourself (so you can to talk-the-talk), why should anyone else spend their time trying to talk to you? fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 1 09:24:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23932; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:20:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:20:11 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HYDROGEN Message-ID: <19980701.091904.13318.0.philip.pse@juno.com> References: <199807010133.VAA26936@centi.mks.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-47 From: philip.pse@juno.com (philip r Johnson) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:17:59 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"6k83C3.0.Xr5.t6ccr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5113 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Fred, in regard to electric A.C.-D.C. motors is there one out there that will turn 18-20,000 r.p.m. ? Thanks , Bob On Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:33:55 -0400 fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) writes: >>From: Patrick Tremblay >>He is also skeptical about the use of electrical pulses that match >>hydrogen's natural frequency to produce overunity. > >>From what I recall reading, if you use the right frequency/voltage >level >when electrolysing water you will produce some quantity of Brown's >gas. >Which can't (effectively) be used in any 'overunity' fashion, but >makes >for really cool cutting/welding effects. I bought George Wiseman's >Brown's Gas device plans/video a while back, but decided to not try >building >a BG generator because for the price (new) of the components, I can >pick up >(used) conventional welding/cutting/etc equipment. (Granted, this >convential >equipment won't be as 'cool' and I won't be able to generate as many >welding/cutting effects, but ...) > >Unless someone here knows of a source of really *CHEAP* 480 VAC motor >run >capacitors that can be used to form a capacitor bank of 1000 uF. >(If you don't know what 'motor run' means then you probably don't have >the right type of capacitors.) > >Or... has anyone here actually used the capacitor plans that are on >the Internet (usually on Tesla coil web-sites) to build capacitors? >If so, how did you determine the voltage rating? And what sort of >capacitance did you end up with, and what components/etc did you >use to get that capacitance? > >My concern with trying to make my own capacitors is not having a high >enough voltage rating, and having them explode in my face. > >In order to bring this post back to the 'free' energy theme, >a capacitor bank of this sort is also required for a "Don Smith" space >energy device. > > fred > >PS. "motor run" means they are used with electric motors when they are >running > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 1 09:25:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25063; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:22:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:22:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:22:14 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortcor-list@eskimo.com Subject: Don't you dare say "levitator!" In-Reply-To: <199807010606.XAA29271@www1.halcyon.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"LJwA73.0.F76.o8ccr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5114 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > You have a new entry in your guestbook: > ------------------------------------------------------ > On your home page, as you scroll down and get to Some Maglev Links, > Under *NASA LARGE GAP levitator. Please note that the Term Levitator is > TRADEMARKED by Superconductive Components Inc. Thank you. Bryan > Jeffries Columbus , Oh USA - > Tuesday, June 30, 1998 at 23:06:12 (PDT) > ------------------------------------------------------ Quite a reprehensible action of an out-of-control legal department, wouldn't you say? If you dare to tell your students that your superconductive demonstration is a "levitator", watch out, they might come after you! Next I suppose that Microsoft will warn us against using their trademarked term "software", and Nike will try to make you put (tm) after all uses of the word "swoosh." Anyone besides me want to send a complaint to these people? Besides bjeffries@superconducitvecomp.com, I find these addresses elsewhere: sales@superconductivecomp.com, jrgaines@superconductivecomp.com ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 1 10:06:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15463; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:00:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:00:56 -0700 Message-ID: <00bc01bda511$fde65640$133cd6d1@martylin> From: "MartyDonna" To: Subject: Re: Self contained HV supply Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:01:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"YNVTe3.0.Un3.6jccr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5115 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Then why are you wasting your time talking to me for>????????? This is suppose to be a list server about what? "Fred's bash", everybody who ask a question or has a suggestion? We both have broke rule 1. Lets grow up and stop it. I won't ask no more questions since it seems to bother people. FREENRG-L RULES ( WARNING! PLEASE READ! ) 1. NO FLAMEWARS: use private email for impolite messages. If your message is the least bit angry, hostile, or apt to be insulting, do not send it to freenrg-L. Instead, use private email to send it directly to your target. VIOLATORS RISK IMMEDIATE UNSUBSCRIPTION. If someone insults you, contact the moderator. See "Flamewars" below for details. 2. Heavy on experimentalism. Or theory-led experiments. Or theoretical implications of experiments. This is not a forum for all those controversial physics theories being ignored by mainstream science. Try NEOTECH for those. But if your theory leads directly to interesting, testable, real-world phenomena, then by all means discuss the experimental possibilites. If your experiments reveal anomalies not predicted by ANY theory, definitely jump right in and discuss your findings. Also it's very acceptable to publish theoretical work on a web page and announce its presence here. 3. Ridicule, debunkery and believer/skeptic flamewars are banned. Let's just say that freenrg-list is a big nasty nest of "true believers" (having maybe a bit of rational skepticism,) and let the skeptics leave in disgust. The tone should be one of legitimate disagreements and respectful debate. 4. Small email files please. The limit is set to 40K right now, those exceeding the limit will be bounced back to you. Some members are on limited service, or have to pay for received email. Larger diagrams and graphics can be mailed directly to interested parties. Or, contact me and we can place them on the FREENRG-L webpage for viewing. 5. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE: when you reply to a message DON'T include the ENTIRE message in your reply. Always edit it and delete as much as possible. The entire message should only be included if: (A) you are replying to a message that is several days old, or (B) you are doing a point-by-point reply to many parts of a message. Several users must pay by the kilobyte for receiving message traffic, and large amounts of redundant messages slow down eskimo.com and cause the freenrg-L traffic to be delayed. For those of us keeping logs of freenrg-L messages, the redundant messages unnecessarily double or triple the file size! So, when including a quoted message in your reply, ALWAYS DELETE SOMETHING. 6. "Junkmail" email advertizing will not be tolerated. While not illegal, widecasting of junk email ads to listserv sites is against the Unwritten Rules of the Internet. Anyone who spams freenrg-list with off-topic advertizing will be referred to the Internet Vigilante Justice team. ;) Occasional on-topic advertizing by regular freenrg-list users is acceptable. Used equipment ads yes, get rich quick schemes no. Note: WEIRD SCIENCE now has a free for-sale area. My Electronics Web Page http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/ -----Original Message----- From: Fred Walter To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, July 01, 1998 11:57 AM Subject: Re: Self contained HV supply >>From: "MartyDonna" >>Why does people who aren't very smart love making other people seem dumb >>and use a lot of technical words for to prove it? > >'Technical words' are a part of the English language. > >If you want to communicate then it is a lot simpler to say "and hook up >the HV transformer to the motor run capacitor" than to say "get the >[insert long non-technical description of a HV transformer] and hook it up >to the [insert long non-technical description of a motor run capacitor]". > >Your ignorance of the meaning of the 'technical words' reflects more upon >you than upon the people using those words. (No matter what you believe, >as evidenced by your statement above.) > >If you want to walk-the-walk, it helps a *lot* if you can talk-the-talk. > >If you aren't willing to spend the time to educate yourself >(so you can to talk-the-talk), why should anyone else spend >their time trying to talk to you? > > fred > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 1 10:07:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15520; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:01:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:01:05 -0700 From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: <199807011700.NAA24678@juliet.its.uwo.ca> X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 13:02:01 -0400 To: Fred Walter , freenrg-l@eskimo.com, KeelyNet-L@lists.kz Subject: Don Smith - Tesla 1894 Patent # 512,340 "Coil for Electromagnets" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5CTEm3.0.Do3.Djccr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5116 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred and all, In J. Manning's book on page 23 their is reference to the above. Do you know how to get it? Found in the 1997 Tesla catalog a number of Don Smith Work shops and videos - has any one seem these? Chris Gupta From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 1 10:32:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27242; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:29:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:29:08 -0700 From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: <199807011729.NAA00126@juliet.its.uwo.ca> X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 13:18:14 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Don't you dare say "levitator!" Cc: Bryan Jeffries In-Reply-To: References: <199807010606.XAA29271@www1.halcyon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"b0Uqm3.0.Yf6.a7dcr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5117 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thiink they will have to sue a lot of people. I for one ignore this stupid nonsence since we are not making any money - what are they going to sue for?? Chris At 09:22 AM 7/1/98 -0700, you wrote: > >> You have a new entry in your guestbook: >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> On your home page, as you scroll down and get to Some Maglev Links, >> Under *NASA LARGE GAP levitator. Please note that the Term Levitator is >> TRADEMARKED by Superconductive Components Inc. Thank you. Bryan >> Jeffries Columbus , Oh USA - >> Tuesday, June 30, 1998 at 23:06:12 (PDT) >> ------------------------------------------------------ > >Quite a reprehensible action of an out-of-control legal department, >wouldn't you say? > >If you dare to tell your students that your superconductive demonstration >is a "levitator", watch out, they might come after you! Next I suppose >that Microsoft will warn us against using their trademarked term >"software", and Nike will try to make you put (tm) after all uses of the >word "swoosh." > >Anyone besides me want to send a complaint to these people? > >Besides bjeffries@superconducitvecomp.com, >I find these addresses elsewhere: >sales@superconductivecomp.com, jrgaines@superconductivecomp.com > >((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) >William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website >billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb >EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science >Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 1 13:17:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16053; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:12:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:12:18 -0700 From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:12:12 -0400 Message-Id: <199807012012.QAA06904@centi.mks.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HYDROGEN Resent-Message-ID: <"FcdjK.0.ew3.XWfcr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5118 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From: philip.pse@juno.com (philip r Johnson) >Dear Fred, in regard to electric A.C.-D.C. motors is there one out there >that will turn 18-20,000 r.p.m. ? Thanks , Bob I don't know. Just curious, what sort of device requires 18k-20k RPM? fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 1 13:41:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26478; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:36:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:36:53 -0700 From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:36:41 -0400 Message-Id: <199807012036.QAA09404@centi.mks.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magtet Resent-Message-ID: <"SFwHC.0.OT6.Ztfcr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5119 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Has anyone here experimented with magtets, as in: http://www.techline.com/~palfac/MobiusInsight_html/magtet/magtet.htm Basically, this is a electromagnet that is wound around a tetrahedron rather than a cylinder. If you follow the links down, you'll get construction information. He has cool pictures of what his "project 1" (a single magtet) does, but doesn't discuss discuss what his "project 2" (4 magtets, arranged facing each other, located in the corners of a larger tetrahedron) does. If I can find a really cheap source of magnet wire, I want to try building a magtet to see if I can duplicate his "model of a black hole built with Crossman steel BB's" effect. fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 1 13:42:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27187; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:38:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:38:41 -0700 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HYDROGEN Message-ID: <19980701.163921.8247.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <199807010133.VAA26936@centi.mks.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,9-11 Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:37:06 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"Neg6P1.0.je6.Gvfcr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5120 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:33:55 -0400 fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) writes: > >My concern with trying to make my own capacitors is not having a high >enough voltage rating, and having them explode in my face. > When I worked at Valcom, we tested prototypes inside a plexiglass box. In theory, it was to protect us incase a capaciter decided to explode (and I have made many explode in my career, and not always on purpose!). Steve Heckman _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 1 14:03:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04420; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:57:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:57:16 -0700 From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:41:43 -0400 Message-Id: <199807012041.QAA09812@centi.mks.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HYDROGEN Resent-Message-ID: <"GaxlP1.0.-41.hAgcr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5121 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com >>My concern with trying to make my own capacitors is not having a high >>enough voltage rating, and having them explode in my face. > >When I worked at Valcom, we tested prototypes inside a plexiglass box. In >theory, it was to protect us incase a capaciter decided to explode Could you give the dimensions of the box/thickness of the plexiglass and the size/etc of the capacitors whose explosions were contained by this box? Thanx, fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 1 14:10:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08284; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:06:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:06:42 -0700 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Don't you dare say "levitator!" Message-ID: <19980701.170545.8247.3.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-7,10-16,18-19,22-26 Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:03:41 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"H1JXn1.0.f02.PJgcr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5122 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:22:14 -0700 (PDT) William Beaty writes: > >> You have a new entry in your guestbook: >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> On your home page, as you scroll down and get to Some Maglev Links, >> Under *NASA LARGE GAP levitator. Please note that the Term >> Levitator is TRADEMARKED by Superconductive Components Inc. Thank you. >> Bryan Jeffries Columbus , Oh USA - >> Tuesday, June 30, 1998 at 23:06:12 (PDT) >> ------------------------------------------------------ > >Quite a reprehensible action of an out-of-control legal department, >wouldn't you say? > I agree. I can say "Coke" all I want, I just can't make money off the name or try to market something else as a Coke. On another tangent, I do believe that T.T. Brown used the term Levitator in one of his patents, but I must of misfiled it, because i just put I away and now I can't find it. So much for clean desks! Steve Heckman _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 1 14:19:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09914; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:13:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:13:02 -0700 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HYDROGEN Message-ID: <19980701.171343.8247.4.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <199807012041.QAA09812@centi.mks.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-18,22-23,27-28,30-35 Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:11:28 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"bvn6O1.0.fQ2.RPgcr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5123 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:41:43 -0400 fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) writes: >>From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com >>>My concern with trying to make my own capacitors is not having a >high >>>enough voltage rating, and having them explode in my face. >> >>When I worked at Valcom, we tested prototypes inside a plexiglass >box. In >>theory, it was to protect us incase a capaciter decided to explode > >Could you give the dimensions of the box/thickness of the plexiglass >and the size/etc of the capacitors whose explosions were contained >by this box? > > Thanx, > fred > > The box was a cube approximately 1 foot each direction, made from 3/8" plexiglass, and was open on the bottom. We placed power supplies inside, the bottom was open, and cranked the voltage up using a variac. If nothing exploded, the cover was removed and testing proceded. The dimensions were not critical, and there is no reason why the box could not be made larger, or out of sheet metal or plywood, with only one side being plexiglass. Or perhaps the whole thing made of 1/2 inch plywood, and use a small piece of plexiglass as a peep-hole. The point is to contain any fragments in case the capaciter under test ruptures. Hope this helps. Steve Heckman _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 2 01:34:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA15683; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 01:27:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 01:27:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980702175543.007dc330@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 17:55:43 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: a simple pulse circuit needed In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980628083225.007da770@earthlink.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hYkES2.0.uq3.UHqcr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5124 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:32 AM 6/28/98 -0700, you wrote: >I about to build a modified wimhurst generator and will drive it with a pulsing circuit that will repell two same pole P/ magnet somthing akin to the adams motor. One pole will be used to trigger a pulse coil which will then fire an electromagnet on the opposite side. I'.m thinking Something along the line of a small coil placed next to a drive magnet The pulse thus generated in coil is then use to drive a transistor again used to fire a power transistor that is used to drive the main electromagnet in opposition to the main permanet (only one pole north will be required to be produced in the electromagnet winding. What I need is a circuit diagram and component values that will accomplish this I will be useing a twelve volt supply to fire main magnet. Does anyone have any ideas Thanks Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me. Like to hear from You From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 2 15:14:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA31759; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 15:09:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 15:09:05 -0700 Message-ID: <359C03F1.7933CD53@ctv.es> Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:04:34 +0200 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga Reply-To: vramos@ctv.es X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JNaudin509@aol.com, "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Warning on measurement!!. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BufOs2.0.2m7.0K0dr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5125 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Jean I'm a little confussed now, but, is the order correct ( first diode, then capacitor, or first capacitor, then diode) in each side of the shunt?. You must look for the voltage loosed in each diode. Try reversing one side, these components are in series, but the high frequency can give you a wrong mesurement . Is only a thinking, maybe I'm wrong (I HOPE). Vicente. -- Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga E-mail: vramos@ctv.es Home Page: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm Burriana (Castellon) SPAIN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 2 19:37:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02772; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:33:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:33:23 -0700 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Self contained HV supply Message-ID: <19980702.223037.2423.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <19980630224328.7007.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> <19980701.163921.8247.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-29,31-32,37-40 Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 22:28:36 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"p8Vi71.0.Dh.oB4dr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5126 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:39:57 steve-nyeoka writes: > >On Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:37:50 -0800 Richard Austin >writes: > >>I reviewed the document. Not your average construction project!!! >>I'm not able to pursue it, but I wish you well in your pursuits. >> >>I can't help but think that there must be a way to free energy >without >>using radiactive sources, even the alpha type you are working with. >>The dangers of the materials makes me shy away. Intuitively I feel >>that we must uncover some new principle of aether transfer of energy >>to solve our energy problems. We should be able to tap the sun's >>energies in a safe and continuous way. >> >> >>Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >>Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at >>http://user.icx.net/~richarda >> >I havn't seen the document yet, largely because I am not on the >internet yet. > >I have asked a coworker to download the file to disk for me, but if >that falls through, could you print out (if a couple of pages) or save >the file to disk for me? I will be happy to send you a couple of blank >disks (SASE) if you can do this for me. He came through! I looked at the document, and will study it in some detail. The thought of using an Alpha emitter really doesn't bother me, but obtaining uranium 238 will be greatly "inconvenient" (generally not available at your corner drug store), but I will track some down. Used depleted uranium in the Air Force as aircraft ballast, the stuff us unbelievably heavy! >Steve Heckman _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 2 20:59:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA03786; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <039d01bda62f$21854de0$94ec060c@davelook> From: "davelook" To: Subject: Re: Don't you dare say "levitator!" Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:12:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"G9a6e1.0.4x.FP5dr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5127 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> You have a new entry in your guestbook: >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> On your home page, as you scroll down and get to Some Maglev Links, >> Under *NASA LARGE GAP levitator. Please note that the Term Levitator is >> TRADEMARKED by Superconductive Components Inc. Thank you. Bryan >> Jeffries Columbus , Oh USA - >> Tuesday, June 30, 1998 at 23:06:12 (PDT) >> ------------------------------------------------------ > >Quite a reprehensible action of an out-of-control legal department, >wouldn't you say? > >Anyone besides me want to send a complaint to these people? > Yes, I do. Want to send an email with others listed as objectors? Here's a start.... Dear Mr. Jeffries, Thank you so much for pointing out that a word commonly used when refering to devices dealing with gravity has been, as you say, "TRADEMARKED", (glad you didn't forget to capitalize ALL the letters to make your point more seem more official). I for one, will go on gladly using that word whenever I feel like it. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 2 21:20:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00485; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:15:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:15:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199807030416.NAA08624@vodka.lynx.net.au> X-Sender: tbaur@lynx.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 13:45:41 +0930 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Tony Baur Subject: Fwd: Re: "Trademarked"? (Levitator) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"XmXLF2.0.Q7.rh5dr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5128 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is my little interchange with the poor superconductive salesman. >Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 09:00:06 -0400 >From: Bryan Jeffries >Reply-To: bjeffries@superconductivecomp.com >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-AIM1.1 (Win95; U) >To: Tony Baur >Subject: Re: "Trademarked"? > >I simply stated that Levitator is TradeMarked by SCI. That is all I >said. He makes it a point to call his Levitron a Product, well, a >Levitator is an actual product too. It is a 1" point to point, 0.8" >flat to flat, .5" thick, Melt Textured YBCO product that we sell for >$125.00. We also have a $70,000 SBIR Grant from NASA to further develop >said Levitator. And again, all I said that indeed it was trademarked >just like the Levitron is. Otherwise, I don't care I am just a lowly >salesman and again, all I mentioned was a statement of fact. I didn't >threaten legal action though I believe it is our right to do so. So >before you start damning statments of fact, please learn about the >subject first. > >Best Regards, >Bryan Jeffries >Superconductive Components Inc. > >Tony Baur wrote: >> >> You left the following message/veiled threat on Bill Beaty's guestbook: >> >> > On your home page, as you scroll down and get to Some Maglev Links, >> > Under *NASA LARGE GAP levitator. Please note that the Term Levitator is >> > TRADEMARKED by Superconductive Components Inc. Thank you. Bryan >> > Jeffries Columbus , Oh USA - >> > Tuesday, June 30, 1998 at 23:06:12 (PDT) >> >> Oh, really. You think you can make a trademark stick on the noun "levitator"? >> How about "lift"? Or maybe even "bounce"? >> >> Instead of making pointless (there is absolutely no way that BIll's use of >> the word >> could be construed as an infringement on a trademark) legalistic jabs, why >> don't >> you try doing something useful. >> >> Yours despairingly, >> TB. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 2 21:46:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07895; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:44:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:44:12 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 00:42:44 EDT To: vramos@ctv.es, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: josephnewman@earthlink.net, btpacker@hotmail.com, newman-l@emachine.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: New test results... I/O current flow confirmed (?? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 116 Resent-Message-ID: <"W1Nmx3.0.Hx1.S66dr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5129 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Vicente and All, I have used 2uF NP capacitors at 2% accuracy. I have also checked the asymetrical effect due to the capacity difference by swapping the Input from Output ( the I/O measurement bridge has been turned to 180 degree. I have also swapped the DVM. The RESULT WAS THE SAME. Output>INPUT This is a kind of INTEGRATOR which add all spikes ( positive and negative in each branch), the resistance in parallel is the DVM high internal resistance, if I put a 100 kohms resistor the average DC drops at about 2V, but with the same asymmetrical effect Out > In. This I/O bridege measurment setup works also with a simple resistive rectilinear wire ( 0.1 ohm). The I/O measurment bridge has been put close to the Newman's machine only for the photo. In the real measurement I have also checked the influence of the rotating magnet and the RF induction effect by putting the bridge up to 1 meter. Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 2 21:58:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10652; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:55:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:55:05 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <1426e5bd.359c6407@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 00:54:30 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: How my device works Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"tM3Zh3.0.Mc2.eG6dr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5130 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-02 06:36:30 EDT, you write: << To find a coil shortout setup, so that this helps the magnet going out of the ferrite. Then the coil current will be the "overunity power" ! >> Stefan, In my setup, the rotor magnet gains kinetic energy from the additional Flux generated by the coils magnetic field. This happens as the magnet is being attracted to top dead center (vertical). The reason the coil is able to generate a flux field during this period is because the field of the magnet is being divided in two equal parts. The reduction (or collapse) of the existing field as it is divided up causes a voltage/current to be induced into the coil windings.(see first two drawing on web site under moving rotor/coil motor/generator.) You have to remember that in all other rotor/stator setups, that as the rotor magnet is attracted to the stator (ferrite with coil windings), the attraction force is reduced as current is allowed to flow in the coil due to the expanding magnetic field thru the stator windings. This is why you have to put work into turning the rotor at this point. In my design, the attraction force is increased as the magnet approaches the stator. This is because the magnetic field is COLLAPSING thru the stator windings, NOT EXPANDING. All this means that the rotor magnet will have enough kinetic energy to overcome the drag between it's self and the stator as they move away from each other. It's a way of reversing the cause and effect in the basic magneto. Comments welcomed, Butch My web site is at > http://members.aol.com/hlafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html Also I would like to apologize for putting the text on my web site in the gif format. Stefan Hartman made me aware that it can't be copied. I will start changing it tomorrow. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 2 22:34:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA18904; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 22:31:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 22:31:49 -0700 Message-ID: <359C6C80.E9EA4AA3@t-link.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 19:30:40 -1000 From: Alastair Couper Reply-To: aquarius@t-link.net Organization: aquarian electronics X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: free energy l Subject: Signing off... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"V-Q_c1.0.Hd4.5p6dr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5131 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The following is a forwarded message: As you may know I have been pulled from Free energy l. I have had the same sort of ISP problems in the past that has generated this action on the part of this group. I have spoken with Bill and I know this is not in any way an action on his part to repress information. That would be totally against his nature. I do feel that these problems will continue no matter the willingness of any list that I may participate in. I do hope that in my time on this group, that others were stimulated, and will continue to look into Hydroxy reaction. Yull Brown is now lost to us all, and it will be through the efforts of many that this work continue. The value of early work in this and any other new discovery is what drives science. The conventional scientific world needs the work of those who are more willing to independently examine unusual properties of materials, or reactions as it is through the compiling this data that their interest is generated. When there is enough factual evidence gathered these things, will catch their eye. The problem is, that considering that most corporate research and development is profit motivated, it may be many years before any of this conventional work is released. This is why I support the investigation of claims via the Internet. I see the Internet, as a new hope for the democratization of information, albeit still not invulnerable. Thank you all for allowing me to participate. Love TR Knudtson trknute@earthlink.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 2 23:03:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25001; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:00:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:00:57 -0700 Message-ID: <359C72ED.4136@keelynet.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:58:05 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Repression Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cmUgp1.0.G66.OE7dr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5132 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! This was received today; ======================== I would ask you to do me a personal favor and post this to free energy l. Thank you TR Knudtson =============== As you may know I have been pulled from Free energy l. I have had the same sort of ISP problems in the past that has generated this action on the part of this group. I have spoken with Bill and I know this is not in any way an action on his part to repress information. That would be totally against his nature. I do feel that these problems will continue no matter the willingness of any list that I may participate in. I do hope that in my time on this group, that others were stimulated, and will continue to look into Hydroxy reaction. Yull Brown is now lost to us all, and it will be through the efforts of many that this work continue. The value of early work in this and any other new discovery is what drives science. The conventional scientific world needs the work of those who are more willing to independently examine unusual properties of materials, or reactions as it is through the compiling this data that their interest is generated. When there is enough factual evidence gathered these things, will catch their eye. The problem is, that considering that most corporate research and development is profit motivated, it may be many years before any of this conventional work is released. This is why I support the investigation of claims via the Internet. I see the Internet, as a new hope for the democratization of information, albeit still not invulnerable. Thank you all for allowing me to participate. Love TR Knudtson trknute@earthlink.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 2 23:12:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28890; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:09:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:09:04 -0700 Message-ID: <359C74D6.1B97@keelynet.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:06:14 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: trknute@earthlink.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Repression References: <3.0.5.32.19980702013116.007e4520@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980702120355.007eb8b0@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CBu2q.0.H37.0M7dr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5133 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Knuke and Freenrgiers! I did not realize you'd also asked Alistair to post it, so now it is posted twice. Alistairs' went through without a problem. I still think it is simply an aperiodically glitchy email system as I've seen it with the KeelyNet-L, vortex and freenrg have both had this problem in the past, where posts couldn't get past, it had nothing to do with repression. I was almost kicked off my own list when the email system got squirrelly, you know it turned out to be that I had over 10MB of undeleted emails on the hard drive of my flash.net account, so when I deleted all that old junk, the email bounces went away. I'd suggest you call your ISP and have them do a mass delete for you, its easy, clean and it'll fix what ails ya... The Internet email system is far from perfected, so I really think it is a glitch and not targeting, god knows, some of the stuff that is posted on the lists and newsgroups is much more inflammatory or politically incorrect and would have been repressed much sooner than your material. As I also said in the earlier reply to you, I've always found your posts very interesting and will definitely miss them if you give up so easily. Call your ISP, tell them to delete all your backed up emails...I'll bet you a beer that's what it is... -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 ICQ # - 13175100 / AOL - Keelyman KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 2 23:23:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01254; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:20:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:20:07 -0700 Message-ID: <007401bda64a$ec1c24a0$873cd6d1@martylin> From: "MartyDonna" To: Subject: Ok off the wall here, please no bashing just throwing something in the wind Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 02:22:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0071_01BDA629.63ED2DC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"gaELh1.0.QJ.MW7dr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5134 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BDA629.63ED2DC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gravity comes from a nuetron, but another force is introduced by the = circular motion of the electrons thus we circle a bigger object from the = all the circular force given off by the electron. If we remove the circular force created by the electron then the nuetron = would all come together & form a very dense mass of very strong = gravitional force and continue to collaspe until all the nuetron become = too close and then they would ?. If we could remove the electrons from a deuterium hydrogen atom and the = proton and rotate the nuetrons gravity would =3D 0. It's late please no bashing just help!=20 My Electronics Web Page http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/ ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BDA629.63ED2DC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gravity comes from a nuetron, = but another force is introduced by the circular = motion of=20 the electrons thus we circle a = bigger object=20 from the all the circular force given off by the electron.
If we remove the circular force created by the = electron then=20 the nuetron would all come together & form a very dense mass of very = strong=20 gravitional force and continue to collaspe until all the nuetron become = too=20 close and then they would ?.
If we could = remove the=20 electrons from a deuterium hydrogen atom and the proton and rotate the = nuetrons=20 gravity would =3D 0.
 
It's late please no bashing just help!
 
 
My Electronics Web Page
http://personal.l= ig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/
------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BDA629.63ED2DC0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 2 23:30:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20666; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:27:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:27:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 23:20:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807030620.XAA00739@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: aquarius@t-link.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Signing off... Resent-Message-ID: <"ynWP_1.0.m25.Ld7dr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5135 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:30 PM 7/2/98 -1000, you wrote: >The following is a forwarded message: > >As you may know I have been pulled from Free energy l. >... >Thank you all for allowing me to participate. > >Love > >TR Knudtson >trknute@earthlink.net > TR should try again. I am also on earthlink and was unsubscribed 3X since last Sun. It isn't clear what they (Earthlink) did to cause bounced mail, or to fix it, but my last "subscribe" has lasted for a few days now instead of a few hours. I'll keep my fingers crossed. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 3 02:06:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA04909; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 02:02:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 02:02:55 -0700 Message-ID: <359C9DC4.EBCE3FD0@harti.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 11:00:52 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "HLafonte@aol.com" Subject: Re: How my HLafonte device works References: <1426e5bd.359c6407@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ER_FM2.0.dC1._u9dr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5136 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-02 06:36:30 EDT, you write: > > << To find a coil shortout setup, so that this helps the magnet going out > of the > ferrite. Then the coil current will be the "overunity power" ! >> > Stefan, > In my setup, the rotor magnet gains kinetic energy from the additional Flux > generated by the coils magnetic field. This happens as the magnet is being > attracted to top dead center (vertical). The reason the coil is able to > generate a flux field during this period is because the field of the magnet is > being divided in two equal parts. The reduction (or collapse) of the existing > field as it is divided up causes a voltage/current to be induced into the coil > windings.(see first two drawing on web site under moving rotor/coil > motor/generator.) > Hmm, I donīt yet see the difference to normal designs ?? Is it important, that your coil rotates with the rotor ?? > You have to remember that in all other rotor/stator setups, that as the rotor > magnet is attracted to the stator (ferrite with coil windings), the attraction > force is reduced as current is allowed to flow in the coil due to the > expanding magnetic field thru the > stator windings. This is why you have to put work into turning the rotor at > this point. I agree ! > In my design, the attraction force is increased as the magnet approaches the > stator. > This is because the magnetic field is COLLAPSING thru the stator windings, NOT > EXPANDING. Hmm, Is this really a difference ?? > All this means that the rotor magnet will have enough kinetic > energy to overcome the drag between it's self and the stator as they move away > from each other. > It's a way of reversing the cause and effect in the basic magneto. > Comments welcomed, I really wish it will be true, that, when your coil current is shorted, that it will help to attract the rotor magnet and not weaken it, so you will have overunity output power from the coil ! If your measurements really show it, then you have won ! Please let me know. Does this only happen, when you rotate the coil with the PM rotor ?? Regards, Stefan. > Butch > My web site is at > > http://members.aol.com/hlafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html > Also I would like to apologize for putting the text on my web site in the gif > format. Stefan Hartman made me aware that it can't be copied. > I will start changing it tomorrow. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 3 05:52:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA21771; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 05:47:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 05:47:38 -0700 Message-ID: <359CD272.C16FDC3F@harti.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 14:45:38 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list CC: Jean Louis Naudin Subject: I just called Greg Watson.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EIvY2.0.5K5.fBDdr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5137 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: and woke him up almost in the night...10 or 11 pm I guess.. I just did not know, it was already 8 hours later and not just 7.... Anyway, he was pretty tired and asked all the time about the Newman news and when the Newman motor will ship etc...... He did not tell much about the SMOT deal, but still said, that he will post something for the weekend to let people know about the SMOT kit status. Maybe you all should check his web site at the weekend... He also said, that he is currently very busy with setting up a larger computer project for a customer of him, so he has not had much time to play around with the SMOT and his energy things... This customer work takes all of his time currently he told me... He also did not ask me, if I want to have a refund.... so it seems he has already forgotten, that about 26 people have already paid his unit in advance...but maybe he was just too tired....???? Just wanted to let you all know... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 3 13:39:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21654; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 13:37:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 13:37:05 -0700 Message-ID: <359D3D8C.50F4@microtec.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 16:22:36 -0400 From: Patrick Tremblay Reply-To: energeon@microtec.net Organization: Energeon X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: SING IN References: <199807030620.XAA00739@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pCIo-.0.AI5.m3Kdr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5138 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: People, If your ISP original Email service causes you trouble, why don't you get a free Email service at Hotmail or Lycosmail or yahoo. That way even if you have BIG problems with your ISP's Email service it won't affect your access to this list. Sincerely, -- Energeon, 7515 Jodelle, Laval West (quebec), Canada, H7R-5L5, FAX: 1-514-686-6083 PHONE: 1-514-962-1678 Patrick Tremblay energeon@microtec.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 3 18:06:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27167; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 18:05:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 18:05:27 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 20:57:14 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Comments on my design from Stefan Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"wlB5a1.0.Pe6.K_Ndr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5139 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Stefan, > You have to remember that in all other rotor/stator setups, that as the rotor > magnet is attracted to the stator (ferrite with coil windings), the attraction > force is reduced as current is allowed to flow in the coil due to the > expanding magnetic field thru the > stator windings. This is why you have to put work into turning the rotor at > this point. (from Butch) I agree ! (from Stefan) > In my design, the attraction force is INCREASED as the magnet approaches the > stator. > This is because the magnetic field is COLLAPSING thru the stator windings, NOT > EXPANDING. (from Butch) See web site http://members.aol.com/hlafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html Hmm, Is this really a difference ?? (from Stefan) >Yes, this is a very big difference, because the flux generated in the coil goes in different directions in the core when the field collapses and when it expands. (from Butch) > All this means that the rotor magnet will have enough kinetic > energy to overcome the drag between it's self and the stator as they move away > from each other. > It's a way of reversing the cause and effect in the basic magneto. > Comments welcomed, (from Butch) I really wish it will be true, that, when your coil current is shorted, that it will help to attract the rotor magnet and not weaken it, so you will have overunity output power from the coil ! If your measurements really show it, then you have won ! Please let me know. Does this only happen, when you rotate the coil with the PM rotor ?? Regards, Stefan. > No, after your suggestion that I not rotate the coil, I believe that the coil can be stationary, but it would have to lay only on the top and sides of the ferrite stator ring. If it were wrapped around the bottom side, the air gap for the magnet to clear the wire would be to large and so much of the magnets strength could not be put to use. (from Butch) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 3 20:40:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16854; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 20:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 20:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <359DAEAD.7F236BBF@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 13:55:17 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List FreeNrg Subject: SMOT STATUS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kQCg52.0.974.HAQdr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5140 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Its now a new financial year in OZ. Busy time for us computer consultants. The DMEC deal drags on. I am getting a good education in business / contract law. All parties have finally agreed that the SMOT Mk5 design is OUTSIDE the DMEC agreement. I am finishing up the working drawings for home fabrication of the Mk5 with an easy to work with plastic rail design that will allow 4 units to be linked for Rollarounds. I have gone through 4 other rail design ideas to get here. Each Mk5 is guaranteed to do level Rollaways. I get about 325mm (from the ends of the mag arrays) average rollaways. I will ship the backordered SMOT kits as 4 x Mk5 units in about 6 weeks. One Mk5 unit will be shipped to each of the verifiers in about 4 weeks. I you wish a refund, please email me directly with your bank account details. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 3 22:29:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA28581; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807040520.WAA23035@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Magtet Resent-Message-ID: <"8X7bM1.0.R-6.KrRdr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5141 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:36 PM 7/1/98 -0400, Fred Walter wrote: >Has anyone here experimented with magtets, as in: > http://www.techline.com/~palfac/MobiusInsight_html/magtet/magtet.htm > >Basically, this is a electromagnet that is wound around a tetrahedron >rather than a cylinder. > >If you follow the links down, you'll get construction information. > This sounds like something interesting to explore. A Tetrahedral vs. other shapes: pyramid, cone, or square coil. It looks hard to wind the layers from the large area base back to the apex, without the wire slipping off. I also did not see the "black hole" analogy reading it. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 00:52:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00082; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:47:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:47:23 -0700 Message-ID: <359DD97C.2118@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 19:27:56 +1200 From: Robbie Rowntree Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT STATUS References: <359DAEAD.7F236BBF@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"r7ebs.0.61.BuTdr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5142 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > Hi All, > > Its now a new financial year in OZ. Busy time for us computer > consultants. > > The DMEC deal drags on. I am getting a good education in business / > contract law. the splot deal drags on also Im getting a bad attitude toward con men liars lawyers and computer consultants. in OZ if you put consultant some were in your title dose that mean you can charge for nothingness,YES > All parties have finally agreed that the SMOT Mk5 design is OUTSIDE the DMEC agreement. what parties! where the freeking parties what about patient infringement {Im being sarcastic} > > I am finishing up the working drawings for home fabrication of the Mk5 > with an easy to work with plastic rail design that will allow 4 units to > be linked for Rollarounds. I have gone through 4 other rail design > ideas to get here. how many have you built? You claimed you were there, over a year ago and every other week since, > > Each Mk5 is guaranteed to do level Rollaways. I get about 325mm (from > the ends of the mag arrays) average rollaways. > > I will ship the backordered SMOT kits as 4 x Mk5 units in about 6 weeks. > we have all seen this before .bullshit! > One Mk5 unit will be shipped to each of the verifiers in about 4 weeks. > you claimed this for the 1,2,3,4,5,6th time!, you are a bullshiter. > I you wish a refund, please email me directly with your bank account > details. I.. me.... do wish a refund, you have my address ,I cannot trust a consultant of any kind with my bank account details , I no longer trust my bank ,since they stole my AMP life insurance and the shears ,and now class consultants ,banks, and other immoral swine with politichions lawers and other criminl > -- > Best Regards, > Greg Watson http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson I ll take the refund now !, will that take a another 48 weeks? your mark 5 track setup does not work !at all! stop fucking us around,return the money NOW! and come clean stop lying > Each Mk5 is guaranteed to do level Rollaways. I get about 325mm ---------- on a hill .bull!shit! your guarantie is worth 0000000000000000000!!!!!!!! is this what a $80,000 DMEG LAB resolt shows! well another $80,000 plus the $5,000 suckered from pepole like myself might show 650 mm wow ! money realy talks, big money big resolt big lye big money. more money more lies . yourve been taken by the beast, well enjoy that crate off red wine I payed for Greg Im just 3/4 through my bottle of Hunters Sauvignon Blanc ... hic.. hic lest my hangover wont be as large as yours... barsted bye **RRAMM** Good Waves Robbie Rowntree experimental research Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electric Gen*Anti gravity drive mailto:rown@xtra.co.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 05:09:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA25314; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 05:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 05:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <359E18B8.A08AEC78@harti.com> Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 13:57:44 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , freenrg-l Subject: Re: SMOT STATUS, ask for a refund ! References: <359DAEAD.7F236BBF@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uRH7q.0.SB6.shXdr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5143 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > Hi All, > > Its now a new financial year in OZ. Busy time for us computer > consultants. > > The DMEC deal drags on. I am getting a good education in business / > contract law. > > All parties have finally agreed that the SMOT Mk5 design is OUTSIDE the > DMEC agreement. > > I am finishing up the working drawings for home fabrication of the Mk5 > with an easy to work with plastic rail design that will allow 4 units to > be linked for Rollarounds. I have gone through 4 other rail design > ideas to get here. > > Each Mk5 is guaranteed to do level Rollaways. I get about 325mm (from > the ends of the mag arrays) average rollaways. > > I will ship the backordered SMOT kits as 4 x Mk5 units in about 6 weeks. > > One Mk5 unit will be shipped to each of the verifiers in about 4 weeks. > > I you wish a refund, please email me directly with your bank account > details. > > -- > Best Regards, > Greg Watson http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson I just donīt know, what is going on....on your side of the world.. and with your DMEC deal... But I guess, it is better now for all who have ordered and paid in advance a year ago to ask for a refund, cause when your SMOT Rollaround really works, one can also buy it again in half a year from now... This is just too long going now and I ask everybody to go for the refund to check if we still can trust Greg Watson. Just my point of view, you might have a different one... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 07:15:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA31051; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 07:11:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 07:11:37 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDA72B.67D226E0.stk@sunherald.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Magtet Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:07:14 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ouBbK2.0.0b7.PWZdr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5144 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: dave dameron [SMTP:ddameron@earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, July 04, 1998 12:20 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magtet >This sounds like something interesting to explore. A Tetrahedral vs. other >shapes: pyramid, cone, or square coil. It looks hard to wind the layers from >the large area base back to the apex, without the wire slipping off. >I also did not see the "black hole" analogy reading it. Interesting coil setup. I really have no idea what a coil like this would do, other than be an interesting looking solenoid. When several are put together as indicated on the page, I don't know. I agree, this might be interesting to pursue. Perhaps I will build a small one. Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 09:18:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA13210; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:16:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:16:06 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <3c7efe27.359e54f9@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:14:48 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Quickfields from Anton do as predicted! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"rYQoj1.0.KE3.6Lbdr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5145 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-04 00:17:26 EDT, you write: << What QF does seem to show is that the flux travels in the same manner as you proposed in your WWW page. What's the next step? Does this confirm what you were thinking? >> Anton, The Quickfields look great! It's good to see something do as I predicted for a change! The only improvements to the Quickfields would be to offset the magnet. The simple way to do that would be to put the magnet in the vertical position and move it up till you had an air gap of only .005" between the top of the magnet and the inside of the ferrite ring. I will then put them on the web site. I am very excited about this. I can not think of any reason that it will not work. When the flux collapses because it is being divided up, it will induce an ATTRACTION force on the magnet. That is just the opposite of what a rotor/stator in a magneto has done till now. Not only is the magnet gaining kinetic energy, the coil is putting out electrical power! Let me know if you don't understand offset directions. Thanks for the help, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 10:53:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25189; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:48:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:48:55 -0700 Message-ID: <19980704172809.20298.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:28:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: SMOT STATUS, ask for a refund ! To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"sv_-R1.0.V96.7icdr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5146 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well....It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that what Greg is building now is worth far less than the original offer. With the plans and some plastic rails we could all build and verify this thing for less than what each of you paid in for the original. Hell, most of us already have the magnets and such. For those who don't remember, the original offer was for magnets, ramps, and a CNC'ed plastic track base. The plastic base would have been costly for most of to machine, and made the oiffer seem worthwhile. Best bet here is for someone to take the time to verify if the new MK5 plans actually work. That should clear-up a lot. Looks like we have a few months to play with the plans.....before anyone gets pre-made hardware to play with. Anyone working on this? == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 14:07:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25283; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 14:04:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 14:04:24 -0700 Message-ID: <359E9791.B6BB3302@darknet.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 16:58:57 -0400 From: Steve Organization: DarkNet Online/Digital Fusion X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet-L@lists.kz, Freenrg , Vortex Subject: Re: new web page...gee...yay References: <000001bda74b$4c388440$9d3261cb@mrhohime> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qKTET2.0.zA6.NZfdr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5147 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/adze/ Hey Matthew, I added your link to DarkNet.. it's on the news page, as well as Quantum Thunder.. anyway, why would people get scared away? heh.. it's a cool site. :) ttyl -Steve p.s. while I'm updating my links page, anyone else have a page I can add? (links page is at http://www.darknet.net/thunder/links/ ) thanks! -- darklord@darknet.net | UIN: 5113616 DarkNet Online: http://www.darknet.net Digital Fusion: http://www.darknet.net/fusion From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 14:21:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28186; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 14:17:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 14:17:19 -0700 Message-ID: <359E9B60.F2265D12@harti.com> Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 23:15:13 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-list , Anton Rager Subject: Re: SMOT STATUS, ask for a refund ! References: <19980704172809.20298.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IWHlJ2.0.Fu6.Ulfdr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5148 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anton Rager wrote: > Well....It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that what Greg is > building now is worth far less than the original offer. With the > plans and some plastic rails we could all build and verify this thing > for less than what each of you paid in for the original. Hell, most > of us already have the magnets and such. > > For those who don't remember, the original offer was for magnets, > ramps, and a CNC'ed plastic track base. The plastic base would have > been costly for most of to machine, and made the oiffer seem worthwhile. > That is right.That is also why I ask everybody to call Greg for a refund ! Time has been running out to be nice... > Best bet here is for someone to take the time to verify if the new MK5 > plans actually work. That should clear-up a lot. Looks like we have > a few months to play with the plans.....before anyone gets pre-made > hardware to play with. Anyone working on this? Jean Louis Nadin told me in a phone call, that he has build 2 x MK5 units and both did not work as claimed by Greg Watson... And JL is an experienced builder, cause he already built many other SMOT ramps.. So I guess it is the best, if everybody who already paid in advance will now request a refund to see, how trustfull Greg Watson still is... I have already asked Greg for a refund at the beginning of this year and he did not send any money, although he agreed on it... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 15:04:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22360; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 15:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 15:02:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <4d7a1408.359ea341@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 17:48:47 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Wilhelm Reich's free energy motor Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"s3ZtR2.0.IT5.rPgdr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5149 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In the biography of Wilhelm Reich titled "Fury on Earth," it mentions a free energy type motor that Reich was working on at one time. It disappeared along with the researcher who was trying to develop it fully. The author of the bio recalls seeing it, but doesn't remember much about it and admits that he lacks the understanding of the necessary science to be able to figure out how the thing worked. I've checked the web site of the Wilhelm Reich Museum and PORE, but they don't list anything on it directly. Does anyone know any more about it? I know that Reich also postulated that UFOs ("Unconvential Flying Objects" to borrow a phrase) could be powered by orgone energy acting in a similar manner as TT Browns electrical work, but again, I know of no detailed information source. (Contrary to popular belief, the FDA didn't burn "everything" of Reich's. They merely supervised the burning of some of his published works. Reich himself did the actually burning, and the orginals of his materials are still extant, however, they have been kept sealed away and will not be published until sometime after 2007 when the fifty year "waiting period' in Reich's will expires.) I'll be grateful for anything anyone can tell me. Thanks. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 16:18:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11083; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:15:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:15:38 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <7ef25bfa.359eb777@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 19:15:02 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Quickfields uploaded for (Stefan and all) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"JwQgN1.0.3j2.QUhdr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5150 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-04 12:34:39 EDT, you write: << Butch, can you please put the QF Gifs onto your site please ? I want to have a look. Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. >> Hi Stefan, I just loaded Quickfields to web site. Regards, Butch http://members.aol.com/hlafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 16:40:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01223; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <359EBAB2.F9965324@harti.com> Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 01:28:50 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "HLafonte@aol.com" , newman-list Subject: Re: Quickfields uploaded for (Stefan and all) References: <7ef25bfa.359eb777@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GBAA32.0.1J.rphdr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5151 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-04 12:34:39 EDT, you write: > > << Butch, > can you please put the QF Gifs onto your site please ? > I want to have a look. > Thanks ! > > Regards, Stefan. >> > Hi Stefan, > I just loaded Quickfields to web site. > Regards, > Butch > http://members.aol.com/hlafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html Hi Butch, thanks a lot for posting the QFīs from Anton about your design. As I can see, all the flux is going to be inside the stator ferrite, so if you wind a coil around it and draw current from it, it will weaken this field, which will brake the rotation speed of the PM , I bet. So you will have no overunity power produced by this coil. If you want to use a coil outside the ferrite ring, there will just be NO flux, which you could use ! So I donīt understand, how it should be different from normal motor designs... Maybe you should look into: http://www.overunity.de/wankel.htm spilce up the stator track into multiple smaller stator parts to build a few coils around this stator track there and try to store the generated energy during the 270 degree rotation to overcome the upper drag when the rotor again goes into the smaller airgap ! Just an idea, I just had when viewing your page Butch... Thanks anyway for the ideas ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 17:06:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04085; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 17:04:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 17:04:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003b01bda7a7$6261de40$885cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: Wilhelm Reich's free energy motor Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 19:50:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"PzIQw.0.i_.zBidr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5152 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Reich himself did the actually burning, and the orginals of his materials are >still extant, however, they have been kept sealed away and will not be >published until sometime after 2007 when the fifty year "waiting period' in >Reich's will expires.) I never heard that. Who is supposed to be holding them? Also, do you know anything about the story that he was working on an antigravity theory in his prison cell, but all his papers disappeared when he died? -- "Volleyball is racquetless team ping-pong played with an inflated ball and an elevated net while standing on the table." --George Carlin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 20:06:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04258; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 20:03:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 20:03:11 -0700 From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <675c991b.359eecb6@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:02:13 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Marketing Free energy Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"ctuY62.0.P21.kpkdr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5153 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Recently, someone raised the issue of their not being any sort of free energy device availible that one could go to the store and buy. This comes on the heels of some questions surrounding the death of various experimenters, plus the lack of interest by large corporations in this area, for whatever reason. There's also the SMOT problem (i.e. an individual has an item, claims it works, offers to sell you it, but is never around when it comes time to ship.), I may have a partial solution to the matter. Its not a perfect solution, but it is one. First of all, the inventor needs to forget about trying to interest the large corporatations, they've got better things to do than "waste their time on something so unimportant." Besides, if you really do have something, you can expect them to steal it from you and not pay a cent of royalties to you (ask the guy who invented intermitant wipers about that one!). Finally, there is the matter of distribution. The common channels of distribution are only open to a product which has the backing of millions of dollars behind it. (Not to mention insurance against product liablity lawsuits, warranty claims, etc. etc.) Wal- Mart, one of the largest chains in the US won't have a thing to do with you unless you can deliver units in the 100's of thousands, if not millions, something difficult for the home inventor to do. Here is my proposal, it offers a start to anyone working in this field, helps to guard against another SMOT debacle, and gets much of the debate out of the way so something can be built. If someone who has a "free energy device" or something similar will agree to the following, I think it will really open up things: 1.) Construct a device which is relatively inexpensive, but provides a good test platform for their technology, a flash light, or radio for example. This can be something which is purchased used at, say, a yard sale, and then is converted to a free energy device. 2.) Several different people are chosen to be "testers." They agree to the following things: 1.) To be fair and honest in their assesment, and 2.) To not seize or exploit the technology for their own profit. 3.) Once the testing period is over, the inventor agrees to sell his or her device (if it works) to anyoine who wants to purchase it. This isn't a perfect situation as everyone is exposed to some risk, but I think that it minimizes the risk for everyone involved. It also leads to two things which everybody wants, namely a free energy device in someone's hand, and money in the inventors pocket. Every new invention has met with periods of opposition and each one has had its development delayed by years, if not centuries, because of the blindness of others. It is time we took free energy out of the realm of the lab and gave it to the people. Even in such a primitve form as a flashlight or radio, it is better than what we have now, which is a lot of talk, but not much to show for it. (Execpt for a few claims here and there.) Well, if anyone has a better idea, I'd love to hear it. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 20:12:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19135; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 20:10:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 20:10:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Bmd2323@aol.com Message-ID: <132740e2.359eecb4@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:02:11 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Reich materials Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"kafJz.0.pg4.-wkdr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5154 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Reich's materials are being held by the executor of his estate, a Mary Higgens I believe. (Her name appears on the copyright page as the director of the Wilhelm Reich Infant Trust.) She has refused to allow anyone access to his papers, including family members (Eva Reich, his eldest daughter has lost several court battles with her on the matter). As for anything Reich may have been working on in prison, the biographer seemed to believe that Reich was so paranoid about someone stealing his ideas that he didn't write them down. However, Reich was most definately writing something while he was in prison and the amount of written material known to have been with him when he died doesn't seem to be enough to match what he was known to have completed. Unfortunately, it appears that with Reich there are two central problems. The first is that his mental ability had become suspect by the time he was incarcerated. He had been under a great deal of emotional strain and didn't understand the workings of the US legal system and this is what led to his imprisonment. Had he followed his lawyers advice (and that of the judge), much of the case against him by the FDA would have been thrown out. The second problem with Reich is that many of the questions about him could be answered quite simply if the government would come clean on what it knows about Reich, or if it were to encourage research into Reich's work to see if it is valid or not. Its akin to the JFK assasination. The whole matter could have been conclusively put to rest when former Gov. John Connonly died. Had the government allowed an independant group to remove and weigh the bullet fragments in his arm, it could have determined if they had come from the "magic bullet." If they did, then it shuts down much of the conspiracy case, if not... In any case, what materials written by Reich which are currently availible contain enough information for people to construct their own accumulators and "cloudbusters." It is possible that someone out there has done enough work that they might have an idea of what Reich had in mind with his "free energy motor" to suggest a direction for design. Brian Drake (Bmd2323@aol.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 21:36:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16788; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 21:33:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 21:33:46 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 00:32:57 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re:Re: Quickfields (changing magnet and ferrite for outside flux) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"tpNgv1.0.E64.f8mdr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5155 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-04 19:37:28 EDT, you write: << As I can see, all the flux is going to be inside the stator ferrite, so if you wind a coil around it and draw current from it, it will weaken this field, which will brake the rotation speed of the PM , I bet. >> Hi stefan and all, Anton is make a new quickfield now with a stronger magnet and/or thinner ferrite to get the flux on the outside of the ferrite. Will post results as soon as I get them. Thanks for the suggestion on the stator. I will try it if this doesn't work, plus I have a few more tricks I can try. Stefan, I think this basic idea, is going to be in the end, overunity, I just have a feeling. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 22:12:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00672; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 22:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 22:10:45 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <1d5b523c.359f08e2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 01:02:15 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: newman-l@emachine.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Oxygen and air which is better for flux flow? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"jQdtE1.0.QA.Jhmdr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5156 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, Does anyone know if oxygen(I heard once that oxygen was "magnetic" to a certain degree) or some other gas offers less resistance to flux passage that air ? And if so how much better? 10% 25% ect. This is a very important question for me to get an answer on. For that matter, how much more resistant to flux passage is a vacuum as to air, if at all? Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 22:45:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA27669; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 22:36:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 22:36:58 -0700 Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 22:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807050537.WAA22378@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Quickfields uploaded for (Stefan and all) Resent-Message-ID: <"bK_Dk3.0.Fm6.v3ndr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5157 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:15 PM 7/4/98 EDT, Butch wrote: >In a message dated 98-07-04 12:34:39 EDT, you write: > >Butch >http://members.aol.com/hlafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html > HI Butch, I don't understand the OU operation of your device. When the magnet moves from horizontal to vertical, current is induced in the coil. Won't this cause a drag on the magnet as it is resisting the increasing field at the vertical position? Energy also needs to be added to move the magnet out of the vertical position, in the rotation. This seems to me the same effect as moving a bar magnet toward an iron or ferrite core solenoid, where current is induced. The second 180 degree would be like removing the bar magnet. What am I not understanding? Thanks, -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 23:08:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29372; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:03:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:03:05 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 02:02:20 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: to Dave from Butch Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ki-jw3.0.nA7.OSndr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5158 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-05 01:40:55 EDT, you write: << When the magnet moves from horizontal to vertical, current is induced in the coil. Won't this cause a drag on the magnet as it is resisting the increasing field at the vertical position? Energy also needs to be added to move the magnet out of the vertical position, in the rotation. >> Hi Dave, The field strength is increased in the attraction mode as the magnet moves from horizional to vertical. this just pulls the magnet that much harder to the vertical. The trick here is that the magnetic field strength decreases as the magnet moves toward an area of attraction (vertical) but only on the left side of the ring. The total field strength stays the same because it is being divided up into two seperate paths as it approaches the vertical. The partial collapse on the left as it divides up, induces an additional pull on the magnet because a collapsing magnetic field creates flux in the coil in the same direction that it is already "flowing" in the ferrite from the magnet. This increase in kinetic energy will push it thru and out of the vertical position. Does this help? If not let me know. Regards, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 23:13:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06233; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:04:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807050604.XAA03333@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Oxygen and air which is better for flux flow? Resent-Message-ID: <"5Sn1F3.0.BX1.dandr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5160 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:02 AM 7/5/98 EDT, you wrote: >Hi all, >Does anyone know if oxygen(I heard once that oxygen was "magnetic" to a >certain degree) or some other gas offers less resistance to flux passage that >air ? And if so how much better? 10% 25% ect. This is a very important >question for me to get an answer on. For that matter, how much more resistant >to flux passage is a vacuum as to air, if at all? >Thanks, >Butch > Hi Butch, Yes, but only slightly. I think oxygen is strongly paramagnetic compared to many gasses. It has a relative permeability of about 1.004. Other gasses, such as nitrogen are diamagnetic, a permeability of 0.99999+ (maybe more 9's?). They have more resistance than vacuum. -Dave A good reference for this type of thing is the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 23:12:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA30001; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:08:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:08:23 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <1eda42d2.359f1831@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 02:07:44 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Quickfields uploaded for (Stefan and all) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"fFqy22.0.hK7.MXndr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5159 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-05 01:40:55 EDT, you write: << The second 180 degree would be like removing the bar magnet. What am I not understanding? Thanks, -Dave >> Dave, In the second 180 degrees, the same effect starts to take place all over again. Regards, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 23:48:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10019; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:47:06 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 02:38:57 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Reply to Dave Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"5GmzT1.0.SS2.e5odr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5162 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: << -Dave A good reference for this type of thing is the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. >> Dave, Thanks for the info. I looking forward to finding out which gas or material has the highest resistance to flux passage also. I can use it to my advantage also in this design. I'm not out of tricks yet. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 4 23:48:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03912; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:44:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:44:13 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <5008dda2.359f20a6@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 02:43:49 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: test,delete Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"OZAOi.0.2z.y2odr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5161 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: test,delete From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 00:43:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA14676; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 00:40:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 00:40:12 -0700 Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 00:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807050740.AAA09525@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Reply to Dave Resent-Message-ID: <"TX1xo1.0.Eb3.Stodr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5163 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:38 AM 7/5/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< -Dave > A good reference for this type of thing is the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and > Physics. >> >Dave, >Thanks for the info. >I looking forward to finding out which gas or material has the highest >resistance to flux passage also. I can use it to my advantage also in this >design. I'm not out of tricks yet. >Thanks, >Butch > Maybe for more effects, larger changes in permeability, you can use liquids? Ferrofluids for large positive permeabilities, and bismuth (Pepto-pismol?) for diamagnetic liquids. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 03:46:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA25174; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 03:42:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 03:42:56 -0700 Old-X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: <359F5798.950BA68A@ctv.es> Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 12:38:17 +0200 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga Reply-To: vramos@ctv.es X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wilhelm Reich's free energy motor X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <4d7a1408.359ea341@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"v0KD23.0.B96.lYrdr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5164 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bmd2323@aol.com wrote: > In the biography of Wilhelm Reich titled "Fury on Earth," it mentions > a free > energy type motor that Reich was working on at one time. It > disappeared along > with the researcher who was trying to develop it fully. The author of > the bio > recalls seeing it, but doesn't remember much about it and admits that > he lacks > the understanding of the necessary science to be able to figure out > how the > thing worked. I've checked the web site of the Wilhelm Reich Museum > and PORE, > but they don't list anything on it directly. Does anyone know any > more about > it? > > I know that Reich also postulated that UFOs ("Unconvential Flying > Objects" to > borrow a phrase) could be powered by orgone energy acting in a similar > manner > as TT Browns electrical work, but again, I know of no detailed > information > source. (Contrary to popular belief, the FDA didn't burn "everything" > of > Reich's. They merely supervised the burning of some of his published > works. > Reich himself did the actually burning, and the orginals of his > materials are > still extant, however, they have been kept sealed away and will not be > > published until sometime after 2007 when the fifty year "waiting > period' in > Reich's will expires.) > > I'll be grateful for anything anyone can tell me. Thanks. > > Brian Drake > (Bmd2323@aol.com) Hi, Brian and all, You can try in a search engine for VACOR, a kind of vaccuum tube invented by Reich. You can also try http://home.sol.no/~torealf/tekno.html. Vicente. -- Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga E-mail: vramos@ctv.es Home Page: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm Burriana (Castellon) SPAIN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 07:03:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA25471; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 07:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 07:01:37 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <66c60616.359f855a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 09:53:29 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Test, delete Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"vifVj.0.vD6.-Sudr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5165 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Test, delete From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 07:20:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA12828; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 07:16:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 07:16:21 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <84d215ea.359f8a94@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 10:15:47 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Going to work at lab on project (Butch) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"qkar33.0.M83.rgudr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5166 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I'm leaving today for the gulf coast, (Gulf of Mexico) to work in a lab with a friend on my project. I will be back this coming Saturday. I will check my email and try to respond every day. I would like to thank everyone for there help on the project in the last two weeks. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 08:55:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23029; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 08:49:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 08:49:02 -0700 Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:49:13 +0200 Message-Id: <199807052149.XAA02796@cache.hb.vossnet.de> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Re: Wilhelm Reich's free energy motor Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA22997 Resent-Message-ID: <"N8wEp2.0.jd5.j1wdr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5167 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 17:48 04.07.98 EDT, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >In the biography of Wilhelm Reich titled "Fury on Earth," it mentions a free >energy type motor that Reich was working on at one time. It disappeared along >with the researcher who was trying to develop it fully. Thatīs correct, the effects and experimental setups on which he bases are very similar to the Correa tubes. However, it has to be said, that Reich bare of any founded electronic knowledge misinterpreted many trivial electronic phenomena and therefore used the term Orgone for otherwise well known phenomena. Therefore it is not so clear whether he had something really. >I know that Reich also postulated that UFOs ("Unconvential Flying Objects" to >borrow a phrase) could be powered by orgone energy acting in a similar manner >as TT Browns electrical work, but again, I know of no detailed information >source. If you read "Contact with Space" in Germany the book is available in german) Reich interpreted natural phenomena and strange observations as UFOīs. There live witnesses of these phenomena in the US still today. From outside these writings are not very careful written and sound sometimes very paranoid and reflect very much Reichīs own situation under stress . (Contrary to popular belief, the FDA didn't burn "everything" of >Reich's. They merely supervised the burning of some of his published works. >Reich himself did the actually burning, and the orginals of his materials are >still extant, however, they have been kept sealed away and will not be >published until sometime after 2007 when the fifty year "waiting period' in >Reich's will expires.) Whether the FBI or Reich himself burned the books is quite irrelevant because the whole thing was enforced by a US court. In his last year Reich was mobbed by the US government by blocking him with permanent difficulties from different institutions. The cause was probably that Reich was one of the first who described openly and independently lower level radiation sickness quite clearly. Similar observations you can find in the report on Tschernobyl. This was surely not on the line of the government, therefore they set him under fire in this way. Therefore, it has to be questioned whether his death in prison was Best regards Diter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 10:06:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14591; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 10:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 10:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980705125649.00c02074@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 12:56:49 +0000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, tesla@pupman.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Magnet Wire General Engineering Data Resent-Message-ID: <"XXHFg.0.uZ3.48xdr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5168 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just came across this site. You can down load the pdf manual at: http://www.cable.alcatel.com/magnet/geneng.html Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 10:38:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18335; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 10:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 10:36:13 -0700 (PDT) From: SHESUZ22@aol.com Message-ID: <142abedb.359fb7aa@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:28:09 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Wilhelm Reich's free energy motor Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Resent-Message-ID: <"fKZ8q1.0.MU4.Acxdr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5169 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What all else does the word "orgone" describe? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 11:17:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23547; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980705180703.006b4390@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 14:07:03 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Marketing Free energy Resent-Message-ID: <"4oLn72.0.ql5.IBydr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5170 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:02 PM 7/4/98 EDT, you wrote: > >Every new invention has met with periods of opposition and each one has had >its development delayed by years, if not centuries, because of the blindness >of others. It is time we took free energy out of the realm of the lab and >gave it to the people. Even in such a primitve form as a flashlight or radio, >it is better than what we have now, which is a lot of talk, but not much to >show for it. (Execpt for a few claims here and there.) > >Well, if anyone has a better idea, I'd love to hear it. > >Brian Drake >(Bmd2323@aol.com) > > My idea is to give it away.Let everyone on the list know how to build it and who developed it.Go for the zenergy prize unless they won't accept it because it has been disclosed which would cause me to doubt their motives.Call the media and get exposure so every one knows it works and who developed it.All you need is to keep an L.E.D. lit without input or a spinning wheel to prove your design.After that there should be some kind of offers for your services.I don't know where I read it it but it has always made sense to me -- They can steal my ideas but they can't steal my mind, and that will allways leave them 2 steps behind. The important thing is it has to work.Not an idea with a bit more tweaking will work but fully functional now.No bullshit. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 11:22:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12222; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:18:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:18:20 -0700 Message-ID: <19980705181426.11740.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:14:26 -0700 (PDT) From: DAN BRYANT Subject: Re: Oxygen and air which is better for flux flow? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"3YWkT1.0.u-2.iDydr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5171 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ===Buch you gotta remember of the flamability of oxygen in making your decision. one spark and its up in smoke. try argon wich is used in light bulbs F R O M DAN BRYANT m-16@rocketmail.com ---HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Hi all, > Does anyone know if oxygen(I heard once that oxygen was "magnetic" to a > certain degree) or some other gas offers less resistance to flux passage that > air ? And if so how much better? 10% 25% ect. This is a very important > question for me to get an answer on. For that matter, how much more resistant > to flux passage is a vacuum as to air, if at all? > Thanks, > Butch > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 11:38:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14790; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:34:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:34:34 -0700 Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 06:17:25 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" To: Freenrg Cc: KeelyNet-L@lists.kz, Vortex Subject: "Magnetic Rotating Apparatus" O/U In-Reply-To: <359E9791.B6BB3302@darknet.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"nFeMm.0.wc3.vSydr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5172 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is anyone going to see the demonstration of inventor Kohei Minato's "overunity/F/E/zero point energy" generating device in Mexico City on July 8,9 or 10? Please contact me off-list since I am not a member of this listserver. Thanks for considering my request. Jorg Ostrowski From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 11:49:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16698; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:43:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:43:45 -0700 Message-ID: <359FC8D9.42CBCB64@harti.com> Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 20:41:30 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: KeelyNet-L@lists.kz, Vortex , newman-list Subject: Re: "Magnetic Rotating Apparatus" O/U References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"V-L_O1.0.n44.Xbydr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5173 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jorg D. Ostrowski wrote: > Is anyone going to see the demonstration of inventor Kohei Minato's > "overunity/F/E/zero point energy" generating device in Mexico City on > July 8,9 or 10? Please contact me off-list since I am not a member of this > listserver. Thanks for considering my request. Jorg Ostrowski Yes, if anybody will attend there or has relatives living in Mexico City it would be extremely helpful if they would attend to have a live first hand report ! Please let us know. Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 12:10:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19546; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:05:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:05:42 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 15:04:53 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: to Dave from Butch Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"n32b.0.Fn4.5wydr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5174 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Butch, Just some thoughts on your design-- In a message dated 7/4/98 11:08:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, HLafonte@aol.com writes: << The total field strength stays the same because it is being divided up into two seperate paths as it approaches the vertical.>> ok, should be pretty close, anyway. << The partial collapse on the left as it divides up, induces an additional pull on the magnet because a collapsing magnetic field creates flux in the coil in the same direction that it is already "flowing" in the ferrite from the magnet >> The current does i think try to keep the field from collapsing, but since the coil resistance is finite (or you have a load connected to ) work is being done. Conventional theory says this work is accounted for by a reverse torque on the rotor. Looking at it another way, forget the coil and assume somehow we could insert a permanent magnet in the ferrite at the same position as the coil with polarity which adds to the flux already present from the moving rotor. It would, it seems to me, exert a retarding force on the rotor as it tries to turn through vertical. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 13:45:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01687; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:42:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:42:07 -0700 Message-ID: <19980705203119.15199.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:31:19 -0700 (PDT) From: DAN BRYANT Subject: Re: Marketing Free energy To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"4vyLm3.0.HQ.VK-dr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5175 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ===they can steal your mind with a gun! F R O M DAN BRYANT m-16@rocketmail.com ---wood wrote: > > At 11:02 PM 7/4/98 EDT, you wrote: > > > >Every new invention has met with periods of opposition and each one has had > >its development delayed by years, if not centuries, because of the blindness > >of others. It is time we took free energy out of the realm of the lab and > >gave it to the people. Even in such a primitve form as a flashlight or radio, > >it is better than what we have now, which is a lot of talk, but not much to > >show for it. (Execpt for a few claims here and there.) > > > >Well, if anyone has a better idea, I'd love to hear it. > > > >Brian Drake > >(Bmd2323@aol.com) > > > > > My idea is to give it away.Let everyone on the list know how to build it > and who developed it.Go for the zenergy prize unless they won't accept it > because it has been disclosed which would cause me to doubt their > motives.Call the media and get exposure so every one knows it works and who > developed it.All you need is to keep an L.E.D. lit without input or a > spinning wheel to prove your design.After that there should be some kind of > offers for your services.I don't know where I read it it but it has always > made sense to me -- > They can steal my ideas but they can't steal my mind, > and that will allways leave them 2 steps behind. > The important thing is it has to work.Not an idea with a bit more tweaking > will work but fully functional now.No bullshit. > > > > Woody > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 14:58:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14260; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:55:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:55:08 -0700 Message-ID: <008f01bda85f$9bc6d2e0$015cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: "freenrg-l" Subject: Re: Wilhelm Reich's free energy motor Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 17:14:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"lE84T1.0.iU3.xO_dr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5176 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >You can try in a search engine for VACOR, a kind of vaccuum tube >invented by Reich. I'm curious, has anyone tried putting a cheap neon bulb in an orac to see if it turns on at a different voltage than normal? -- "Volleyball is racquetless team ping-pong played with an inflated ball and an elevated net while standing on the table." --George Carlin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 15:43:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00307; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 15:42:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 15:42:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BDA83A.D8A05E40.stk@sunherald.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Spin field generator Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 17:32:11 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8eJ8h2.0.j4.w40er"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5177 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello all: Has anyone tried this: http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/tors/spin1.html If so, what were your results? Kyle R. Mcallister Email: stk@sunherald.infi.net Phone: 228-875-0629 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/5257 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 15:46:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22747; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 15:42:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 15:42:56 -0700 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oxygen and air which is better for flux flow? Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 22:42:29 GMT Message-ID: <35a10000.1813627@mail.zip.com.au> References: <19980705181426.11740.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> In-Reply-To: <19980705181426.11740.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA22557 Resent-Message-ID: <"AwxoQ.0.hY5.e50er"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5178 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:14:26 -0700 (PDT), DAN BRYANT wrote: >===Buch you gotta remember of the flamability of oxygen in making your >decision. one spark and its up in smoke. try argon wich is used in >light bulbs Nope! Nyet! Non! Nein! Oxygen is *NOT* flammable. Never has been, never will be. Flammables require the presence of oxygen before they can be flammable and oxygen *IS* consumed as combustion occurs. But you can have *PURE* oxygen and you can feed sparks into it until the cows come home or the sun burns cold and you will not get an explosion. After all, the IC engine doesn't run very well once you've run out of gas, does it? And it's still getting the same amount of oxygen . Add a flammable though, particularly in the correct ratio, and it's a whole new ballgame. alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 19:45:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA11051; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 19:42:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 19:42:21 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980706024111.006a9980@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 22:41:11 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Marketing Free energy Resent-Message-ID: <"9UzOx2.0.Vi2.Cc3er"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5179 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:31 PM 7/5/98 -0700, you wrote: > > > > >===they can steal your mind with a gun! > They can stop your mind with a gun not steal it.That is why I say give it away so there can be no conspiracy theories.The damage will have been done and free energy has been revealed.Not much point killing after the fact. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 20:41:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA27136; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 20:40:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 20:40:14 -0700 X-Lotus-Fromdomain: CBT From: "Scott Pennington" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: <85256639.000F722F.00@cinbell.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:48:43 -0400 Subject: Scott Pennington/CBT is out of the office. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZcZYx1.0.wd6.TS4er"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5180 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I will be out of the office from 07/05/98 until 07/13/98. I am at Disneyworld. I will respond to your message when I return. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 22:22:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA10991; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:19:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:19:51 -0700 From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 01:19:49 -0400 Message-Id: <199807060519.BAA12294@centi.mks.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Tesla US Patent 512,340 Resent-Message-ID: <"69nrr2.0.ah2.sv5er"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5181 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A few days ago someone asked for Tesla's US Patent 512,340. I scanned it in and was going to put it up on my web-site, but my friend's computer (which hosts my web-site) seems to be down. When it comes back up, I'll be sticking it up there. But until then, here is the text portion of the patent. (If you notice any mistakes, please let me know.) BTW, is anyone else scanning in/OCR'ing/PDF'ing old interesting patents in their spare time? --- UNITED STATES PATENT OFFICE. NIKOLA TESLA, OF NEW YORK, N.Y. COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS. SPECIFICATION forming part of Letters Patent No. 512,340, dated January 9, 1894. Application filed July 7, 1893. Serial No. 479,804. (No model.) To all whom it may concern: Be it known that I, NIKOLA TESLA, A citizen of the United States, residing at New York, in the county and State of New York, have invented certain new end useful Improvements in Coils for Electro-Magnets and other Apparatus, of which the following is a specification, reference being had to the drawings accompanying and forming a part of the same. In electric apparatus or systems in which alternating currents are employed the self-induction of the coils or conductors may, and in fact, in many cases does operate disadvantagely by giving rise to false currents which often reduce what is known as the commercial efficiency of the apparatus composing the system or operate detrimentally in other respects. The effects of self-induction, above referred to, are known to be neutralized by proportioning to a proper degree the capacity of the circuit with relation to the self-induction and frequency of the currents. This has been accomplished heretofore by the use of condensers constructed and applied as separate instruments. My present invention has for its object to avoid the employment of condensers which are expensive, cumbersome and difficult to maintain in perfect condition, and to so construct the coils themselves as to accomplish the same ultimate object. I would here state that by the term coils I desire to include generally helices, solenoids, or, in fact, any conductor the different parts of which by the requirements of its application or use are brought into such relations with each other as to materially increase the self-induction. I have found that in every coil there exists a certain relation between its self-induction and capacity that permits a current of given frequency and potential to pass through it with no other opposition than that of ohmic resistance, or, in other words, as though it possessed no self-induction. This is due to the mutual relations existing between the special character of the current and the self-induction and capacity of the coil, the latter quantity being just capable of neutralizing the self-induction for that frequency. It is well-known that the higher the frequency or potential difference of the current the smaller the capacity required to counteract the self-induction; hence, in any coil, however small the capacity, it may be sufficient for the purpose stated if the proper conditions in other respects be secured. In the ordinary coils the difference of potential between adjacent turns or spires is very small, so that while they are in a sense condensers, they possess but very small capacity and the relations between the two quantities, self-induction and capacity, are not such as under any ordinary conditions satisfy the requirements herein contemplated, because the capacity relatively to the self-induction is very small. In order to attain my object and to properly increase the capacity of any given coil, I wind it in such way as to secure a greater difference of potential between its adjacent turns or convolutions, and since the energy stored in the coil considering - the latter as a condenser, is proportionate to the square of the potential difference between its adjacent convolutions, it is evident that I may in this way secure by a proper disposition of these convolutions a greatly increased capacity for a given increase in potential difference between the turns. I have illustrated diagrammatically in the accompanying drawings the general nature of the plan which I adopt for carrying out this invention. Figure 1 is a diagram of a coil wound in the ordinary manner. Figure 2 is a diagram of a winding designed to secure the objects of my invention. Let A, Figure 1, designate any given coil the spires or convolutions of which are wound upon and insulated from each other. Let it be assumed that the terminals of this coil show a potential difference of one hundred volts, and that there are one thousand convolutions; then considering any two contiguous points on adjacent convolutions let it be assumed that there will exist between them a potential difference of one-tenth of a volt. If now, as shown in Figure 2, a conductor B be wound parallel with the conductor A and insulated from it, and the end of A be connected with the starting point of B, the aggregate length of the two conductors being such that the assumed number of convolutions or turns is the same, viz., one thousand, then the potential difference between any two points in A and B will be fifty volts, and as the capacity effect is proportionate to the square of this difference, the energy stored in the coil as a whole will now be two hundred and fifty thousand as great. Following out this principle, I may wind any given coil either in whole or in part, not only in the specific manner herein illustrated, but in a great variety of ways, well-known in the art, so as to secure between adjacent convolutions such potential difference as will give the proper capacity to neutralize the self-induction for any given current that may be employed. Capacity secured in this particular way possesses an additional advantage in that it is evenly distributed, a consideration of the greatest importance in many cases, and the results, both as to efficiency and economy, are the more readily and easily obtained as the size of the coils, the potential difference, or frequency of the currents are increased. Coils composed of independent strands or conductors wound side by side and connected in series are not in themselves new, and I do not regard a more detailed description of the same as necessary. But heretofore, so far as I am aware, the objects in view have been essentially different from mine, and the results which I obtain even if an incident to such forms of winding have not been appreciated or taken advantage of. In carrying out my invention it is to be observed that certain facts are well understood by those skilled in the art, viz: the relations of capacity, self-induction, and the frequency and potential difference of the current. What capacity, therefore, in any given case it is desirable to obtain and what special winding will secure it, are readily determinable from the other factors which are known. What I claim as my invention is: 1. A coil for electric apparatus the adjacent convolutions of which form parts of the circuit between which there exists a potential difference sufficient to secure in the coil a capacity capable of neutralizing its self-induction, as herein before described. 2. A coil composed of contiguous or adjacent insulated conductors electrically connected in series and having a potential difference of such value as to give to the coil as a whole, a capacity sufficient to neutralize its self-induction, as set forth. NIKOLA TESLA. Witnesses: Robt. F. Gaylord, Parker W. Page. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 23:10:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17130; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:04:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:04:03 -0700 Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807060604.XAA03276@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, stk@sunherald.infi.net From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Spin field generator Resent-Message-ID: <"8RUjk2.0.VB4.JZ6er"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5182 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Kyle and all, At 05:32 PM 7/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hello all: > >Has anyone tried this: > >http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/tors/spin1.html > >If so, what were your results? No, not yet. The closest thing I tried was a solenoid with a cylindrical steel core. The coil was fixed, but the core could be rotated about its axis. (Are the magnetic lines attached to the core?). I couldn't measure any effect. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 23:34:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21849; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:32:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:32:24 -0700 Message-ID: <19980706054231.28144.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:42:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: Permeabilty of O2, N2, and AIR To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"UBThS1.0.JL5.tz6er"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5183 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave/All, Could someone look this up in the "CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics", and see what the following gases have listed? 1 - O2 2 - N2 3 - Air -- sea level @ %95 humid, and %15 humid (would love to know for 5280ft...but prob to much to ask). >From Dave's reply....I am curious what value a true vacuum should have? 1.00? Also -- is O2/Air a linear value, or is the permeability non-linear with O2/air? ---dave dameron wrote: > > At 01:02 AM 7/5/98 EDT, you wrote: > >Hi all, > >Does anyone know if oxygen(I heard once that oxygen was "magnetic" to a > >certain degree) or some other gas offers less resistance to flux passage that > >air ? And if so how much better? 10% 25% ect. This is a very important > >question for me to get an answer on. For that matter, how much more resistant > >to flux passage is a vacuum as to air, if at all? > >Thanks, > >Butch > > > Hi Butch, > Yes, but only slightly. > I think oxygen is strongly paramagnetic compared to many gasses. It has a > relative permeability of about 1.004. Other gasses, such as nitrogen are > diamagnetic, a permeability of 0.99999+ (maybe more 9's?). They have more > resistance than vacuum. > -Dave > A good reference for this type of thing is the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and > Physics. > > == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 6 01:46:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA02007; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 01:45:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 01:45:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00a001bda8b9$44a19c20$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Oxygen and air which is better for flux flow? Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:30:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"1fl9n.0.GV.iw8er"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5184 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Butch A common trick with DC motors to increase power is to place films with good permeability between the armature and the PM's because the film reduces the 'air gap'. Acetate film is commonly used. Regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: HLafonte@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: newman-l@emachine.com Date: Sunday 05 July 1998 06:13 Subject: Oxygen and air which is better for flux flow? >Hi all, >Does anyone know if oxygen(I heard once that oxygen was "magnetic" to a >certain degree) or some other gas offers less resistance to flux passage that >air ? And if so how much better? 10% 25% ect. This is a very important >question for me to get an answer on. For that matter, how much more resistant >to flux passage is a vacuum as to air, if at all? >Thanks, >Butch > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 6 10:39:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12671; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:33:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:33:04 -0700 X-Deferral-Notification: 1998-07-06_05:26:53/2 Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 19:58:03 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, KeelyNet-L@lists.kz, Vortex , newman-list Subject: Re: "Magnetic Rotating Apparatus" O/U In-Reply-To: <359FC8D9.42CBCB64@harti.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gntlC.0.s53.FfGer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5185 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan: Please see note I sent to Scott Little attached. ____________________________________________________________________ "I am awaiting confirmation for a local person (Mexico City) to attend their 4:00-5:30PM demonstration on Friday July 10. If you are interested, I will keep you posted of salient events." Jorg Ostrowski _____________________________________________________________________ On Sun, 5 Jul 1998, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Jorg D. Ostrowski wrote: > > > Is anyone going to see the demonstration of inventor Kohei Minato's > > "overunity/F/E/zero point energy" generating device in Mexico City on > > July 8,9 or 10? Thanks for considering my request. Jorg Ostrowski > > Yes, if anybody will attend there or has relatives living in Mexico City it > would be extremely helpful if they would attend to have a live first hand > report ! > > Please let us know. > Thanks ! > > Regards, Stefan. > > > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann > Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com > Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 6 11:52:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11389; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:48:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:48:17 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 02:48:28 +0200 Message-Id: <199807070048.CAA25426@cache.hb.vossnet.de> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Re: Wilhelm Reich's free energy motor Resent-Message-ID: <"jOqYu1.0.Zn2.llHer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5187 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 13:28 05.07.98 EDT, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >What all else does the word "orgone" describe? > The term orgone energy is a synonym for life energy which played a big role in the natural philosophies (other synonyms: prana, Od, ki, vis vitalis ect.)before the age of rationalism. If you translate the observations there you would call orgone a cold plasma or static electricity in today terms. The different synonyms of life energy comprised elements of the systems of esoterics and acupuncture. Today this terminology survives in bioenergetics (or as other people say in psychohydraulics) and similar systems. You can say that the idea of electricity stems a little bit from these philosophies. In the age of rationalism this term was defined precisely and all other foggylike attributes belonging to life energy were skipped. Therefore quite oftenly these new life energies ideas are steps backwards of people who cannot deal with today science. But it should be said as well that due to this skipping of the other qualitative aspect of energy the today terminology of science lacks the possibility to understand many life problems. Some people therefore tried to handle life energy scientifically, sometimes they made interesting observation, but in effect the success was not very great. Sincerly Dieter Bauer P.S.: A book in german about life energy concepts is recommended at www.overunity.com/theory.htm. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 6 11:54:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11131; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:47:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:47:37 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:47:42 -0700 X-Intended-For: Message-Id: <199807061847.LAA16393@slave3.aa.net> X-Sender: knuke@pop.aa.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@aa.net (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Oxygen and air which is better for flux flow? Resent-Message-ID: <"Ael-M2.0.qj2.8lHer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5186 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alan Schneider wrote: >Oxygen is *NOT* flammable. Never has been, never will be. Flammables >require the presence of oxygen before they can be flammable and oxygen >*IS* consumed as combustion occurs. But you can have *PURE* oxygen and >you can feed sparks into it until the cows come home or the sun burns >cold and you will not get an explosion. Hi Alan, Do you have any references to back up this claim or any personal anecdotes that you could share that would indicate that this was correct? -knuke From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 6 12:43:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA27294; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:37:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:37:45 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Tesla US Patent 512,340 Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:42:28 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"VN2zu.0.Jg6.8UIer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5188 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I went ahead and scanned, OCR'ed, and converted to HTML the Tesla patent #8200 (UK). I find HTML much easier to work with than PDF, it doesn't require a special Acrobat reader, and the text can be scanned with search engines. Takes a little time to get a good result, but the source information in some these patents appears to be worth the effort. The downside is that there is no guarantee that there are no OCR conversion errors in the text. The ZIPped up file containing the HTML and JPEG files is about 52KB large. The file is public domain, and I would be happy to send it via private e-mail to anyone who wants it. Would appreciate a link to my web site if you decide to put the file on your web site. Plan to do more of these conversions as I get time, and source documents in paper form. Charles http://www.aton.com > -----Original Message----- > From: fredw@mks.com [SMTP:fredw@mks.com] > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 1998 10:20 PM > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Tesla US Patent 512,340 > > A few days ago someone asked for Tesla's US Patent 512,340. > > I scanned it in and was going to put it up on my web-site, but my > friend's > computer (which hosts my web-site) seems to be down. When it comes > back up, > I'll be sticking it up there. But until then, here is the text portion > of > the patent. (If you notice any mistakes, please let me know.) > > BTW, is anyone else scanning in/OCR'ing/PDF'ing old interesting > patents > in their spare time? > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 6 12:43:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA27515; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:38:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:38:00 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807061938.MAA20464@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Permeabilty of O2, N2, and AIR Resent-Message-ID: <"DGePU.0.rj6.MUIer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5189 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Anton and all, At 10:42 PM 7/5/98 -0700, you wrote: Could someone look this up in the "CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics", and see what the following gases have listed? There might be a better reference, The CRC book has things in cgs units. The relative permeabilities are unitless, but the susceptivities are not. >1 - O2 >2 - N2 >3 - Air -- sea level @ %95 humid, and %15 humid (would love to know >for 5280ft...but prob to much to ask). > My number for the relative permeability of about 1.004 for O2 was for Liquid oxygen. For gas O2 at one atmosphere, it is 1.0013 (If I did the calculations OK). For N2 it is 0.9999957, at one atmosphere For H2O it is 0.9999962, vapor For air, I think you can add the % of the gasses, so it is approx 20% of that of O2 +75+%N2 =1.00026, at one atmosphere. Not much as a magnetic material! >>From Dave's reply....I am curious what value a true vacuum should >have? 1.00? Yes. > >Also -- is O2/Air a linear value, or is the permeability non-linear >with O2/air? For different densities, like at 5280 feet, I would think the permeability is linear with density, with reference to a vacuum. Acetate, mentioned in another post for motors, like most non ferro. materials has a relative permeability also very close to 1.0. It may be used as an insulator, however. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 6 14:55:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06139; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:47:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:47:45 -0700 Message-ID: <35A1455F.17465FB1@harti.com> Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 23:45:04 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: Second law theory article online ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jiF_U.0.nV1.0OKer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5190 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A new article by Dieter Bauer is set up on the theory page of my server at http://www.overunity.com/theory.htm or more specific http://www.overunity.com/2ndlaw/2ndlaw.htm It proves that the second law is not an axiom because it can be derived from the principle of least action of mechanics. The article fills an open gap in the chain of argumentation, however it contains no overunity example. Therefore it is recommended especially for theory freaks. Best regards, Stefan Hartmann -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 6 15:23:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14137; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:12:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:12:34 -0700 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tesla US Patent 512,340 Message-ID: <19980706.181339.7359.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <199807060519.BAA12294@centi.mks.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4 Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 18:11:39 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"HoVAQ3.0.mS3.HlKer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5191 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 6 Jul 1998 01:19:49 -0400 fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) writes: >A few days ago someone asked for Tesla's US Patent 512,340. Is this the patent with the "bucking" coils? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 6 15:39:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22456; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:34:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:34:53 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Tesla UK Patent 8200 - "Improvements related to the transmission of electrical energy" Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:39:27 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"cb-uM3.0.UU5.A4Ler"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5192 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Should have included the patent title in the last post. The patent is titled "Improvements related to the transmission of electrical energy" issued by the British Patent Office in 1905. This patent describes exciting the planet Earth at a resonant frequency of 6 Hertz and using the resulting standing waves to transmit energy. It seems to be related to the Wardenclf project on Long Island, New York. The UK patents are interesting in that more description and theorizing is allowed than in US patents. I am sending you a copy via private e-mail. Charles > -----Original Message----- > From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com [SMTP:steve-nyeoka@juno.com] > Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 3:12 PM > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Tesla US Patent 512,340 > > > On Mon, 6 Jul 1998 01:19:49 -0400 fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) writes: > >A few days ago someone asked for Tesla's US Patent 512,340. > > Is this the patent with the "bucking" coils? > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 6 16:12:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA05073; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:06:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:06:30 -0700 Message-ID: <35A157EC.419A94D8@harti.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 01:04:13 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , freenrg-l Subject: Re: Free electricity from Ground potential problems...?? References: <19980706172604.AAA29155@ben.mobile.global.slb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"B1JkD1.0.BF1.rXLer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5193 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > --- > > Now maybe someone can help me: I have noticed a potential between my TV > cable ground and my power ground in my house. > > Ben Saucer Hi Ben and all ! Yes, that is sometimes a real problem, where you can also blow up your PC cards, when you use a TV-tuner card in your PC which you have plugged into the TV cable of your house. Also in my flat I have a difference voltage between the power ground socket and the cable TV ground socket. I always get an electrical shock, when I wanted to insert the TV-cable into my PC-Tuner card and touching the metal-case of PC and the TV-cable ground at the cable-connector ! It seems it has about at least 100 Volts or more difference voltage ! It is probably 50 Hz AC ! Maybe I could use this to power for FREE a load ??? I really have to try it again with a light bulb ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 6 18:49:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA17096; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:46:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:46:59 -0700 Message-ID: <35A17D9A.8DFB8140@harti.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 03:44:58 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: Update page updated ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5yGTv3.0.xA4.IuNer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5194 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I have corrected a few broken links and added the new theory article of Dieter Bauer on the update page at: http://www.overunity.com/update.htm Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 6 19:39:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA25534; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:33:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:33:12 -0700 (PDT) From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oxygen and air which is better for flux flow? Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 02:25:45 GMT Message-ID: <35a986c6.12870596@mail.zip.com.au> References: <199807061847.LAA16393@slave3.aa.net> In-Reply-To: <199807061847.LAA16393@slave3.aa.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id TAA25498 Resent-Message-ID: <"4K-dI3.0.qE6.bZOer"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5195 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:47:42 -0700, knuke@aa.net (Michael T Huffman) wrote: >Alan Schneider wrote: >>Oxygen is *NOT* flammable. Never has been, never will be. Flammables >>require the presence of oxygen before they can be flammable and oxygen >>*IS* consumed as combustion occurs. But you can have *PURE* oxygen and >>you can feed sparks into it until the cows come home or the sun burns >>cold and you will not get an explosion. >Hi Alan, > Do you have any references to back up this claim or any personal >anecdotes that you could share that would indicate that this was correct? -knuke Years of observation basically, backed up by teachings at school. So my certainty of rightness on this one is pretty high. Take the humble gas axe for example - ever tried to light one with the acetylene turned off and just O2 flowing? It don't light. Likewise the example I gave in my original email of a car engine failing to run when it's out of fuel. Everything else is still present and pretty much the same, the only altered factor is the initial presence and later absence of the distilled petroleum. Conversely, you can put out a fire by excluding oxygen from it. Combustion generally seems to require the *presence* of oxygen and the oxygen is used up in the process - it's not a passive bystander or simply a catalyst. It's not entirely incorrect to view combustion as very, very rapid rusting (or vice versa ). But the oxygen is only half of the equation. That is not to say that there is not some boundary condition, some state of matter where different conditions may obtain. But it does appear to be true enough in everyday life, under "normal" conditions. Do you have some evidence of exceptions, or are you just trying to make me think and to present my frames of reference . alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 6 20:01:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04044; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:48:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:48:53 -0700 From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:48:51 -0400 Message-Id: <199807070248.WAA25470@centi.mks.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tesla US Patent 512,340 Resent-Message-ID: <"aERwQ3.0.4_.KoOer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5196 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com >References: <199807060519.BAA12294@centi.mks.com> >>A few days ago someone asked for Tesla's US Patent 512,340. >Is this the patent with the "bucking" coils? The text of that patent was included in the email that you are responding to (according to your email's References: line). If you read that email then you could answer your own question, rather than depending on the kindness of strangers to read it for you. fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 7 03:28:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA22994; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 03:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 03:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35A1F596.E89A8DE9@harti.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 12:16:55 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l Subject: [Fwd: Newman:preliminary my mot/gen] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------70C3BB188B9D996B0531C7C0" Resent-Message-ID: <"7ApoH2.0.Cd5.IVVer"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5197 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------70C3BB188B9D996B0531C7C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net --------------70C3BB188B9D996B0531C7C0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <35A1F554.87A0E022@harti.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 12:15:48 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Greg East CC: Jean Louis Naudin Subject: Re: Newman:preliminary my mot/gen References: <35A17D9A.8DFB8140@harti.com> <35A184B1.F26@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Greg ! Great news ! Congratulations ! Hope to hear soon more of your motor/generator ! How much power are you currently about using for lighting the neon bulb ? 170 Volts DC x 0.5 milliamps= 84 MilliWatts of input power to light an 8 (eight) foot neon tube to about 20 to 30 Watts of light power ?? Sounds just great ! Please continue the good work ! Regards, Stefan. Greg East wrote: > Hi all, > > Over the holiday weekend, anxiety built up to the point that I finally > built a Newman Motor/Generator from the various junk lying around in my > machine shop. > > I've had this coil of mag. wire intimidating me for quite a while now. > It's about 29,000 ohms and right around 16 miles long. I wasn't about > to re-wind this into new coils, so I opted for a Newman design based on > his portable...but smaller. If you read the book, you know its the one > with a free-standing coil and the mag rotor/commutator off to the side. > > I've also had a whole lot of Neo's daring me to put them to good use as > well. Here's a description of what I built, how it runs, what it seems > to be doing, and my next steps. > > My commutator is about 4-1/2 in in dia. It's flat like JL's but > machined out of double clad circuit board material, .1 thick. It has > 36 pulsing segments...18 for each 1/2 rev/polarity. It's slip-ringed > for direct application of D.C. or rectified A.C. Also, the machined out > insulation spaces between the segments have been filled so that the > surface of the commutator is smoothe all over. > > My Neo's are stacked about 3 inches long and about 1-3/4 square. > They're mounted at one end of a SS shaft...Neo's one end, Commutator the > other, needle bearings in the middle...about 4 in. separation between > the Neo's and the Comm. > > My "burshes" are just wires wrapped around insulated posts that drag on > the commutator surface. Because the commutator is smoothe, the wires > don't jump any as they make and break with the segments. > > At present, I am powering the thing with rectified 'wall power'. When > running, It draws about 3/4 milliamp...that's right, less than a miliamp > and turns at about 90 RPM. Timing is set at around 30 (thirty) degrees > advnaced. > > If you read the book you recall that you can place a neon tube in > parallel across the coil and light it up. Well you be you can. I put > an 8 (eight) foot neon across my coil and it almost stays ignited > continuously. It's not as bright as fully lit, but it's impressive > nontheless. In addition, with the neon lit, the current dropped to 1/2 > (one half) milliamp!!!! and the thing sped up perceptibly!!!!.....as > Newman teaches. > > On the scope: Negative current? You bet! By inspection, if > integrated, the negative current is likely greater than the supply > current. > > Next I'm going to go to higher voltage, screw around with the timing, > sophisticate the instrumentation, improve the brushes and all that good > stuff. These things I will do when I have another block of free time. > Meanwhile, I'll just watch it run while the neon glows. > > I did this in less than two days. If I can, so can all of you. Try it, > you'll like it. I must admit, JLN and Stefan Hartman have been quite > the inspiration. Thanks guys. > > Happy building, > > Greg East -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net --------------70C3BB188B9D996B0531C7C0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 7 04:04:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA25622; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 04:02:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 04:02:53 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <26725fad.35a1fe74@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 06:54:42 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Trans. : Re: Newman:preliminary my mot/gen Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_899808883_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 116 Resent-Message-ID: <"A3Pvd2.0.FG6.S1Wer"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5198 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_899808883_boundary Content-ID: <0_899808883@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Dans un courrier dat=E9 du 07/07/1998 12:33:20 , JNaudin509@aol.com a = =E9crit : << On 07/07/1998 06:36:19 , gmeast@pacbell.net wrote : << I did this in less than two days. If I can, so can all of you. Try it= , you'll like it. I must admit, JLN and Stefan Hartman have been quite the inspiration. Thanks guys. Happy building, Greg East >> Dear Greg, I am glad that you have succeed in building the Newman's machine based o= n my diagrams and advices that I have published in my web site. CONGRATULATION GREG !!! Keep up your good work, so, I have added you comment in my web site in a= new topic about the Newman's Machine : the "Experiment's Feedback" at : http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NWMfb.htm I encourage anyone who has built a successful Newman's machine to send m= e his feedback with the detailled explanation of the setup used and I shall pu= blish it in my web site. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) >> --part0_899808883_boundary Content-ID: <0_899808883@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from relay17.mx.aol.com (relay17.mail.aol.com [172.31.106.71]) by air09.mail.aol.com (v45.13) with SMTP; Tue, 07 Jul 1998 06:33:19 -0400 Received: from sstar.com (sstar.com [204.27.72.1]) by relay17.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id GAA14452 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 06:33:14 -0400 (EDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com ([198.81.17.6]) by sstar.com with ESMTP (IPAD 2.06) id 7397600 ; Tue, 07 Jul 1998 05:23:06 -0500 Received: from JNaudin509@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 1MCFa27698; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 06:19:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 06:19:57 EDT To: "Newman-L Mailing List" Cc: harti@harti.com, leoguitar@vossnet.de, josephnewman@earthlink.net Subject: Re : Re: Newman:preliminary my mot/gen X-Mailer: IPAD 2.0 Sender: newm-err@emachine.com Reply-To: "Newman-L Mailing List" Errors-To: newm-err@emachine.com X-List-Post: X-List-Unsubscribe: X-List-Subscribe: X-List-Help: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 07/07/1998 06:36:19 , gmeast@pacbell.net wrote : << I did this in less than two days. If I can, so can all of you. Try it, you'll like it. I must admit, JLN and Stefan Hartman have been quite the inspiration. Thanks guys. Happy building, Greg East >> Dear Greg, I am glad that you have succeed in building the Newman's machine based on my diagrams and advices that I have published in my web site. CONGRATULATION GREG !!! Keep up your good work, so, I have added you comment in my web site in a new topic about the Newman's Machine : the "Experiment's Feedback" at : http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NWMfb.htm I encourage anyone who has built a successful Newman's machine to send me his feedback with the detailled explanation of the setup used and I shall publish it in my web site. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) --part0_899808883_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 7 08:05:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09195; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 08:00:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 08:00:40 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:55:27 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980707214918.09371d84@pop3.friend.ly.net> X-Sender: geet@pop3.friend.ly.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Bob Colvin Subject: Re: Marketing Free energy Resent-Message-ID: <"9etks2.0.bF2.OWZer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5199 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:02 PM 7/4/98 EDT, you wrote: >Recently, someone raised the issue of their not being any sort of free energy >device availible that one could go to the store and buy. This comes on the >heels of some questions surrounding the death of various experimenters, plus >the lack of interest by large corporations in this area, for whatever reason. >There's also the SMOT problem (i.e. an individual has an item, claims it >works, offers to sell you it, but is never around when it comes time to >ship.), I may have a partial solution to the matter. > >Its not a perfect solution, but it is one. First of all, the inventor needs >to forget about trying to interest the large corporatations, they've got >better things to do than "waste their time on something so unimportant." >Besides, if you really do have something, you can expect them to steal it from >you and not pay a cent of royalties to you (ask the guy who invented >intermitant wipers about that one!). Finally, there is the matter of >distribution. The common channels of distribution are only open to a product >which has the backing of millions of dollars behind it. (Not to mention >insurance against product liablity lawsuits, warranty claims, etc. etc.) Wal- >Mart, one of the largest chains in the US won't have a thing to do with you >unless you can deliver units in the 100's of thousands, if not millions, >something difficult for the home inventor to do. > >Here is my proposal, it offers a start to anyone working in this field, helps >to guard against another SMOT debacle, and gets much of the debate out of the >way so something can be built. If someone who has a "free energy device" or >something similar will agree to the following, I think it will really open up >things: >1.) Construct a device which is relatively inexpensive, but provides a good >test platform for their technology, a flash light, or radio for example. This >can be something which is purchased used at, say, a yard sale, and then is >converted to a free energy device. >2.) Several different people are chosen to be "testers." They agree to the >following things: 1.) To be fair and honest in their assesment, and 2.) To >not seize or exploit the technology for their own profit. >3.) Once the testing period is over, the inventor agrees to sell his or her >device (if it works) to anyoine who wants to purchase it. > >This isn't a perfect situation as everyone is exposed to some risk, but I >think that it minimizes the risk for everyone involved. It also leads to two >things which everybody wants, namely a free energy device in someone's hand, >and money in the inventors pocket. > >Every new invention has met with periods of opposition and each one has had >its development delayed by years, if not centuries, because of the blindness >of others. It is time we took free energy out of the realm of the lab and >gave it to the people. Even in such a primitve form as a flashlight or radio, >it is better than what we have now, which is a lot of talk, but not much to >show for it. (Execpt for a few claims here and there.) > >Well, if anyone has a better idea, I'd love to hear it. > >Brian Drake >(Bmd2323@aol.com) > > Hi, How about a "shareware" patent, similar to software? Since the patent system won't allow a free energy device to be patented. Any comments? Bob + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Bob Colvin - GEET of MD/WI + + + + http://www.Friend.ly.Net/GEET + + + + geet@friend.ly.net + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 7 09:41:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05260; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:36:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:36:58 -0700 Message-ID: <35A24E0E.51D4B930@harti.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:34:22 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , freenrg-l Subject: Re: **NEWMAN: NBS Report Evaluating Newman Device References: <6cfa0a23.35a244b8@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7bXaa2.0.3I1.ewaer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5200 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JBrandoni@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-07 09:51:45 EDT, you write: > > << John -- count me in! David >> > > You're in!! 4 orders for the NBS test report of Newman's device so far. > > Since this is a one-time thang, we'd like to get the cost per copy down as low > as we can. If 2 more folks sign up, we'll make it an even $5 (payable after > you get the report in the mail). Then I'll place the order. (Of course if more > sign up, the price will go down more.) > > I'd think that anyone experimenting with the machine would like to see the > results of ANY test -- poorly performed or not. Might learn something new to > try. Anyway... Yes, it is pretty interesting to see, what huge errors they did in measuring the machine....And this test did cost 100.000 US$ , what a shame... I have the printed report over here already since 10 years or so... They did not measure the mechanical output power and also grounded the machine and used resistors accross the coil, so there could not build up a spark at all, so they did not measure any RF, which is a key element in the Newman machine... Very badly done. So studying the NBS report is only good to see, how you DO NOT measure a Newman machine ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 7 18:04:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA32764; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:01:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:01:42 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Grat Crabtree" To: Subject: RE: Oxygen Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:59:07 -0700 Message-ID: <003701bdaa0c$09ee8d00$494368cf@gratnsue> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.1 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199807061847.LAA16393@slave3.aa.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"ohVwz3.0.r_7.rJier"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5201 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: pure high school physics combustion is the process of oxygenation rust is the slow combustion of iron. logically you cannot oxygenate oxygen. I know ozone is O3 but that is another story. Grat http://home.pacbell.net/gratnsue http://grat.home.ml.org -----Original Message----- From: Michael T Huffman [mailto:knuke@aa.net] Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 11:48 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oxygen and air which is better for flux flow? Alan Schneider wrote: >Oxygen is *NOT* flammable. Never has been, never will be. Flammables >require the presence of oxygen before they can be flammable and oxygen >*IS* consumed as combustion occurs. But you can have *PURE* oxygen and >you can feed sparks into it until the cows come home or the sun burns >cold and you will not get an explosion. Hi Alan, Do you have any references to back up this claim or any personal anecdotes that you could share that would indicate that this was correct? -knuke From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 7 19:28:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14243; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:26:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:26:00 -0700 (PDT) From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Scalar Term in Maxwell Equations Message-ID: <19980707.221405.8239.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-6,9-10,13-22,24-25,27 Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:11:54 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"KnNPi2.0.OU3.sYjer"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5202 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, Been reading Beardens books for quite some time, he mentioned early on that the modern version of maxwells equations were in quaternion form, and conveyed more information than the "simplified" modern form. However, in his books he have never actually given the equation for comparison. For those interested, the equations he discusses are found in Hey, just a quick note that I found the quaternion form of Maxwell's book, " A Treatise...." Found the scalar term in Vol. 2, starting at page 239. The real meat starts at page257, under the sub-heading "Quaternion Expressions for the Electromagnetic Equations." Chapter 10 also gives an explanations of units and symbols that should help understand the Whittacker papers. Hope this helps anyone who is interested in scalar theory. Steve Heckman PS Jerry Decker has proposed the "shareware" idea and has some info on Keelynet. Another PS. Sorry Fred, for my laziness. Actually shoud of got off my butt and looked in my file as I do have several of his patents _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 7 19:34:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29272; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:30:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:30:00 -0700 Message-ID: <001f01bdaa18$9748a760$0711a098@data> From: "Edward Kauffmann" To: "Jerry W. Decker" Cc: , , Subject: Re: more on Flipping Magnetic Fields Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:31:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDA9F7.085A6500" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"PX4ny2.0.I97.dcjer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5203 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDA9F7.085A6500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone, I just dug up this email Jerry sent a few months back and tried to = duplicate this effect. I got the effects mentioned except the poles do not appear = to flip as indicated below. This is the key statement: >> He says this happens not because the attraction to the plate is >> stronger than the pole repulsions (after all, it has magnetized the >> plate with the same polarity so is essentially an extension of the >> magnet pole energy)....but he says he watched the fields at = different >> points and when the magnets begin to attract, the moving magnet pole >> actually FLIPS! >From what I see, the attraction IS from the plate being stronger than = the pole repulsions. If the field flipped, wouldn't it then be possible to bring another magnet of unlike pole up next to the one now stuck to the other side of the plate and have it repel? Has anyone else played more with this? Regards, Ed -----Original Message----- From: Jerry W. Decker To: KeelyNet-L@lists.kz Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, March 07, 1998 1:23 PM Subject: Flipping Magnetic Fields?? >Hi Folks! > >This is an email I sent to a friend and researcher; > >> Well, better to try and fail....this info was shared courtesy of Wes >> Crosiar..so thank him if you have occasion to communicate...he's = been >> ill with a flu and is better now... > >> Something odd you might be interested in...a fellow (Wes) says you >> can take a magnet, like a cylinder or bar....put a thick metal piece >> on one pole (doesn't matter)....then bring a similar magnet close to >> the metal plate so that the approaching pole is identical to the one >> it is moving near to. > >> As I am told, when you slowly move the magnet towards the metal = plate, >> you will find the magnets repel until right before you get to the >> plate...then all of sudden, it will attract and both magnets will >> stick to the plate. > >> He says this happens not because the attraction to the plate is >> stronger than the pole repulsions (after all, it has magnetized the >> plate with the same polarity so is essentially an extension of the >> magnet pole energy)....but he says he watched the fields at = different >> points and when the magnets begin to attract, the moving magnet pole >> actually FLIPS! > >> He believes this is the key to the Sweet device, the Minato >> self-driven magnetic wheel and other devices....it is almost exactly >> what Wesley Gary said happened with his magnetic 'neutral line'..... > >> Isn't that interesting???? I'm going to do that when I get some = steel >> plate...he says the thicker the better....-------------------------------------------- >The email response was; > >>> Well - it does! (flip polarity) >>> I have a few rare earths. This effect can be seen at 4 to 6 inches. >>> The non metallic magnet turns and tries to spin around. (I just went >>> in the shop and tested it!) There is something else odd, the magnet = at >>> a distance, turns about 30 to 45 degrees and stays there. >>> (with regard to the Minato self-running bicycle wheel as at; >>> http://keelynet.com/gravity/curtis0.htm ) I am trying to find a >>> small smooth plate I can mount 1 nib to so I can see exactly what it >>> does. It would seem many on a plate will turn..... > >>> But I have to test this magnet thingy! I find heavy chrome from my = old >>> motorcycle makes super conductor for magnets. I get more power using >>> them than iron. If I can rig it, I will have pictures for you. ------------------------------------------------- >Many of my associates think the Sweet device used such a magnetic = bubble >switch effect, and Wes says Coler and Hendershot also used it..>>> = Jerry >-- > Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 > ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDA9F7.085A6500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Everyone,

I just dug up this email Jerry sent a few = months back=20 and tried to duplicate
this effect.  I got the effects mentioned = except=20 the poles do not appear to
flip as indicated below.

This is = the key=20 statement:

>>  He says this happens not because the = attraction=20 to the plate is
>>  stronger than the pole repulsions = (after all,=20 it has magnetized the
>>  plate with the same polarity so = is=20 essentially an extension of the
>>  magnet pole = energy)....but he=20 says he watched the fields at different
>>  points and = when the=20 magnets begin to attract, the moving magnet pole
>>  = actually=20 FLIPS!


From what I see, the attraction IS from the plate = being=20 stronger than the
pole repulsions.  If the field flipped, = wouldn't it=20 then be possible to
bring another magnet of unlike pole up next to = the one=20 now stuck to the
other side of the plate and have it = repel?

Has anyone=20 else played more with=20 this?

Regards,

Ed





-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Jerry W. Decker <jdecker@keelynet.com>
To: = KeelyNet-L@lists.kz <KeelyNet-L@lists.kz>
Cc: = freenrg-l@eskimo.com <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>; vortex-l@eskimo.com
<vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: = Saturday,=20 March 07, 1998 1:23 PM
Subject: Flipping Magnetic = Fields??


>Hi=20 Folks!
>
>This is an email I sent to a friend and=20 researcher;
>
>>  Well, better to try and = fail....this info=20 was shared courtesy of Wes
>>  Crosiar..so thank him if = you have=20 occasion to communicate...he's been
>>  ill with a flu and = is=20 better now...
>
>>  Something odd you might be = interested=20 in...a fellow (Wes) says you
>>  can take a magnet, like a = cylinder or bar....put a thick metal piece
>>  on one pole = (doesn't matter)....then bring a similar magnet close = to
>>  the=20 metal plate so that the approaching pole is identical to the=20 one
>>  it is moving near to.
>
>>  As = I am=20 told, when you slowly move the magnet towards the metal = plate,
>> =20 you will find the magnets repel until right before you get to=20 the
>>  plate...then all of sudden, it will attract and = both=20 magnets will
>>  stick to the = plate.
>
>>  He=20 says this happens not because the attraction to the plate = is
>> =20 stronger than the pole repulsions (after all, it has magnetized=20 the
>>  plate with the same polarity so is essentially an=20 extension of the
>>  magnet pole energy)....but he says he = watched=20 the fields at different
>>  points and when the magnets = begin to=20 attract, the moving magnet pole
>>  actually=20 FLIPS!
>
>>  He believes this is the key to the = Sweet=20 device, the Minato
>>  self-driven magnetic wheel and = other=20 devices....it is almost exactly
>>  what Wesley Gary said = happened=20 with his magnetic 'neutral line'.....
>
>>  Isn't = that=20 interesting????  I'm going to do that when I get some=20 steel
>>  plate...he says the thicker=20 the
better....--------------------------------------------
>The = email=20 response was;
>
>>> Well - it does! (flip=20 polarity)
>>> I have a few rare earths. This effect can be = seen at 4=20 to 6 inches.
>>> The non metallic magnet turns and tries to = spin=20 around. (I just went
>>> in the shop and tested it!) There = is=20 something else odd, the magnet at
>>> a distance, turns = about 30 to=20 45 degrees and stays there.
>>> (with regard to the Minato=20 self-running bicycle wheel as at;
>>> http://keelynet.com/grav= ity/curtis0.htm=20 ) I am trying to find a
>>> small smooth plate I can mount 1 = nib to=20 so I can see exactly what it
>>> does. It would seem many on = a plate=20 will turn.....
>
>>> But I have to test this magnet = thingy! I=20 find heavy chrome from my old
>>> motorcycle makes super = conductor=20 for magnets. I get more power using
>>> them than = iron.  If I=20 can rig it, I will have pictures for
you.=20 -------------------------------------------------
>Many of my = associates=20 think the Sweet device used such a magnetic bubble
>switch effect, = and Wes=20 says Coler and Hendershot also used it..>>>=20 Jerry
>--
>        &n= bsp;     =20 Jerry W. Decker  /   jdecker@keelynet.com
>&nbs= p;        =20 http://keelynet.com   = / =20 "From an Art to a = Science"
>      =20 Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214)=20 324-3501
>   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - = Republic of=20 Texas - 75187
>
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDA9F7.085A6500-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 7 19:40:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00384; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:37:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:37:17 -0700 Message-ID: <35A2DBA6.1032AE47@jps.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 19:38:31 -0700 From: Aaron McBride X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Hi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fwEmr.0.25.Pjjer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5204 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I'm new to this list. I found it when looking for information on arcing in microwaves. I have a lot of interest in lightning balls and the sort. I'm wondering if you ever discuss zero point energy, and if it has been concidered in relation to LB. I don't have any money to try any of the experiments that I have read about so far, but I hope that I can share in the experience on this list. : ) -Aaron McBride From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 7 19:49:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04501; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:46:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:46:02 -0700 Message-ID: <35A2DD5B.49D70A2A@dcache.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:45:47 -0400 From: "James J. Jiamachello" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalar Term in Maxwell Equations References: <19980707.221405.8239.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RIxKf.0.C61.frjer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5205 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: steve-nyeoka@juno.com wrote: snip > For those interested, the equations he discusses are found in Hey, just a > quick note that I found the quaternion form of Maxwell's book, " A > Treatise...." snip > > Steve Heckman > Hi Steve I have a Dover Publication, Unabridged Third Edition, that was published in 1891 which only has vector notation. Where did you obtain your copy? Publisher? Do you think they are still available? Just curious. Thanks Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 7 20:38:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23983; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:36:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:36:22 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:36:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Scalar Term in Maxwell Equations To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <35A2DD5B.49D70A2A@dcache.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"r_Cox2.0.fs5.raker"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5206 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, James J. Jiamachello wrote: > steve-nyeoka@juno.com wrote: > snip > > For those interested, the equations he discusses are found in Hey, just a > > quick note that I found the quaternion form of Maxwell's book, " A > > Treatise...." > snip > > > > Steve Heckman > > > > Hi Steve > > I have a Dover Publication, Unabridged Third > Edition, that was published in 1891 which only > has vector notation. > Where did you obtain your copy? Publisher? Do > you think they are still available? Just > curious. > > Thanks > > Jim > I found the original book (I believe published by Oxford Press, Oxford University) in the University of Illinois library. It contained the quaternion equations, as Steve described. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 8 10:53:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14625; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:44:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:44:16 -0700 Message-ID: <19980708174318.15805.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:43:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: JNL's Newman Motor Comments/Questions To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"fYVM52.0.lZ3.i_wer"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5207 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis/All, Reviewed some of the Newman stuff on your WWW yesterday, and came across some results that look real promising. On http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NMac0702.htm you show a forward voltage [input] of 25.7V and a reverse voltage [output?] of 28.4V. On http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NMac0627.htm your scope shows significantly more mA of negative [output] current spikes/20ms interval than positive [input] current. So -- Any idea how many Watts forward and reverse? Also - I assume that the large voltage drop at V1/V2 is because of the shunt and meter impedance? Any way to measure without the shunt? The 1Mohm/V DMM compared to the 2Mohm/V analog looks like you are getting a voltage increase of %9-10 [read %9-10 OU?]? Does this mean the actual overall increase back to the supply is around 62.6vdc? My math with electronics sucks...... If this is the case, then it looks like you are on the home stretch for a OU device! Best results I've seen so far! What's next? == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 8 17:33:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07242; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:26:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:26:22 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:10:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Scalar Term in Maxwell Equations Message-ID: <19980708.171549.7678.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <19980707.221405.8239.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> <35A2DD5B.49D70A2A@dcache.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,6-7,12-18,20-23,25-33,36-42,47-49 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com (Stephen L Heckman) Resent-Message-ID: <"njvF-1.0.ym1.ju0fr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5208 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all, first I must apologize for my terrible grammer in my origional post. "... he mentioned early on that the modern version of maxwells equations were in quaternion form" I meant to say the early versions of his equations were in guaternion form, later Heavyside helped transform them into the present format. As for this...."For those interested, the equations he discusses are found in Hey, just a quick note that I found the quaternion form of Maxwell's book, " A Treatise...." " it appears that I need to take English as a Second Language, after I figure out what my native tongue is. Sorry. Now on to my replies..... On Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:45:47 -0400 "James J. Jiamachello" writes: >steve-nyeoka@juno.com wrote: >snip >> For those interested, the equations he discusses are found in Hey, >>just a quick note that I found the quaternion form of Maxwell's book, " A >> Treatise...." >snip >> >> Steve Heckman >> > >Hi Steve > >I have a Dover Publication, Unabridged Third Edition, that was published in 1891 which only has vector notation. Where did you obtain your copy? Publisher? Do >you think they are still available? Just curious. > >Thanks > >Jim > I also have the Dover version (1954). The Quaternion expressions did not begin until page 257 of Volume 2 (Chapter 9 of part 4). I had the books for several years, and actually located the info Saturday morning while looking through the book for something else. Wish Bearden had given the page number in his footnotes, could of found it earlier. Steve _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 8 18:48:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29174; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:43:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:43:35 -0700 X-Deferral-Notification: 1998-07-08_16:43:24/1 Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 07:15:35 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: "Spangler, Paul" other e-mail address In-Reply-To: <35A2DD5B.49D70A2A@dcache.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Qu3dk.0.l77.712fr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5209 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Would Paul Spangler please get in touch with me please. Jorg Ostrowski From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 9 00:26:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11166; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 00:04:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 00:04:45 -0700 Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807090626.XAA22190@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Scalar Term in Maxwell Equations Resent-Message-ID: <"YbvYr1.0.Mk2.Ck6fr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5210 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Steve and all, At 05:10 PM 7/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >>I have a Dover Publication, Unabridged Third Edition, that was published >in 1891 which only has vector notation. Where did you obtain your copy? >Publisher? Do >>you think they are still available? Just curious. >> >>Thanks >> >>Jim >> >I also have the Dover version (1954). The Quaternion expressions did not >begin until page 257 of Volume 2 (Chapter 9 of part 4). I had the books >for several years, and actually located the info Saturday morning while >looking through the book for something else. Wish Bearden had given the >page number in his footnotes, could of found it earlier. > Could you please tell the Dover book title? I am very curious of what you find out. For example, the divergence of a vector B is defined as = dB(x)/dx +dB(y)/dy +dB(z)/dz, these are partial derivatives. It can be shown as = to the outward flux of B per unit volume. Am sure it's used in many other fields, such as fluid mechanics. Is this idea different in quaterion notation vs. vector notation, or is just the notation different? In vector Maxwell's equations, divergence B =0. Is there some term that was dropped, or is writing B as 3 (x,y,z) vector components the "error"? What was used before page 257 of Vo. 2? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 9 04:12:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA19346; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 04:09:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 04:09:36 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 07:09:05 EDT To: newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: josephnewman@earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Newman's Machine V1.4 : A COOLING effect has been observed. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 116 Resent-Message-ID: <"nI2nX3.0.7k4.lJAfr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5211 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, 07-09-98 - The entropy changes while the Machine runs, a COOLING effect has been observed... Today, I have conducted a new test about my Newman's machine V1.4. The purpose of this test is to check some eventual changes in the entropy of the Newman's Machine. I have used a dual probes digital thermometer (resolution 0.1 degrees) : - The first temperature probe has been used as reference for the lab temp (21.5 degrees) - The second temperature probe has been glued directly on the Newman's coil. I have wait one hour before starting the test for equalizing the temperature ( LabTemp = 21.5 degrees, Coil Temp = 21.5 degrees) The test has been conducted during one hour. Time (mn) Temp (degrees) 00 21.5 05 21.5 10 21.4 15 21.3 20 21.3 25 21.3 30 21.3 35 21.3 40 21.3 45 21.3 50 21.3 55 21.3 60 21.3 The Newman's machine has been stopped after the test (a 60 mn run) and 15 mn after the temperature has been EQUALIZED AGAIN at 21.5 degrees. This confirm the cooling effect observed in spite of the mechanical work generated and the joules' effect dissipated in the coil. The rotation speed was 286 RPM and the coil voltage used 626 V The differential voltages I/O measured on the "current control flow bridge" was 32V (Input) and 88V (Output) accross the 2uF cap with my new fast HV diodes. You will find all details and pictures about this test at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NMac0709.htm Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 9 06:26:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01173; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 06:22:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 06:22:08 -0700 Old-X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: <35A4C2A8.FBD83BAE@ctv.es> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 15:16:25 +0200 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga Reply-To: vramos@ctv.es X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Newman's Machine V1.4 : A COOLING effect has been observed. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dVb0_.0.AI.0GCfr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5212 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > Hi All, > > 07-09-98 - The entropy changes while the Machine runs, a COOLING > effect has > been observed... Hi, Jean and all... This is great!. I was sure if you made this test these were the results if this device is OU. I'M SURE YOUR MACHINE IS OU. THIS EFFECT IS IMPOSSIBLE IN A COMMON THERMODYNAMIC MACHINE. Vicente. -- Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga E-mail: vramos@ctv.es Home Page: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm Burriana (Castellon) SPAIN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 9 10:39:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18563; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:35:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:35:45 -0700 Message-ID: <35A4FDB6.197E909E@idt.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 13:28:23 -0400 From: Josef Katz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Spangler, Paul" other e-mail address References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nRoXV2.0.yX4.mzFfr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5213 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: sorry, no paul spangler here. -joey katz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 9 11:00:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23656; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:55:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:55:02 -0700 Message-ID: <35A503D0.E410BD9F@GroupZ.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 13:54:24 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" , "USA-TESLA@list.iex.net" , "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Sonofusion page Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AMrAA2.0.Ln5.rFGfr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5214 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ran across this sonofusion page that I though might be of interest to people on this list....steve opelc http://www.hooked.net/~rgeorge/sonof.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 9 11:40:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA17725; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35A5077E.571FD246@idt.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 14:10:06 -0400 From: Josef Katz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: re: "Re: "Spangler, Paul" other e-mail address" wrong posting References: <35A4FDB6.197E909E@idt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8V1LH2.0.tK4.kiGfr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5215 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: sorry, hit the wrong button, this was not meant to go here. -joey katz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 9 11:47:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05720; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:44:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:44:24 -0700 Message-ID: <19980709184631.27175.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:46:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: Newman's Machine V1.4 : A COOLING effect has been observed. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"938sE1.0.HP1.7-Gfr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5216 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: While the coooling effect is a really cool [argh! no pun intended!] -- I am far more intruiged by your new voltage readings....is this due soley to RPM, because of the temp probe on the coil, or are the new diodes working that much better? [btw -- what are those new diodes anyway? in case others want to try as well] before: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NMac0702.htm 358RPM @626Vdc: 25.7Vdc forward 28.4Vdc reverse now: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NMac0709.htm 286RPM @ 626Vdc 32Vdc forward 88Vdc reverse! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The reverse voltage is more than 2x forward! I have a few more questions...... 1 - Why 626V? Any possibilty lower voltages might work? 2 - How do the voltage readings vary with RPM? 3 - How do the current readings vary with RPM? Again -- is there any way to get an idea of how many watts of differential you have here?? I looked at the scope stuff, and it seems that the amperage should be equal or greater in reverse.... Is this really OU or is it just functioning as a transformer or sorts? A measurement of voltage and amperage should be the litmus test. You have my attention. Wish I had a scope to try some of this myself! Guess my DMM might work? == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 9 12:18:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA24341; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:14:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:14:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31E2AD1B.916067E0@harti.com> Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 21:03:55 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JNaudin509@aol.com CC: ddameron@earthlink.net, gmeast@pacbell.net, Stefan Hartmann , mrand910@yahoo.com, newman-list , freenrg-l Subject: Re: A COOLING effect has been observed. References: <478f9520.35a4a4d4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pG2qV1.0.Fy5.0QHfr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5217 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > Hi All, > > 07-09-98 - The entropy changes while the Machine runs, a COOLING effect has > been observed... > > Today, I have conducted a new test about my Newman's machine V1.4. The purpose > of this test is to check some eventual changes in the entropy of the Newman's > Machine. > > I have used a dual probes digital thermometer (resolution 0.1 degrees) : > - The first temperature probe has been used as reference for the lab temp > (21.5 degrees) > - The second temperature probe has been glued directly on the Newman's coil. > I have wait one hour before starting the test for equalizing the temperature ( > LabTemp = 21.5 degrees, Coil Temp = 21.5 degrees) > > The test has been conducted during one hour. > > Time (mn) Temp (degrees) > 00 21.5 > 05 21.5 > 10 21.4 > 15 21.3 > 20 21.3 > 25 21.3 > 30 21.3 > 35 21.3 > 40 21.3 > 45 21.3 > 50 21.3 > 55 21.3 > 60 21.3 > > The Newman's machine has been stopped after the test (a 60 mn run) and 15 mn > after the temperature has been EQUALIZED AGAIN at 21.5 degrees. This confirm > the cooling effect observed in spite of the mechanical work generated and the > joules' effect dissipated in the coil. > > The rotation speed was 286 RPM and the coil voltage used 626 V > The differential voltages I/O measured on the "current control flow bridge" > was 32V (Input) and 88V (Output) accross the 2uF cap with my new fast HV > diodes. > > You will find all details and pictures about this test at: > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NMac0709.htm > > Sincerely, > > Jean-Louis Naudin (France) Hi, couldnīt it be, that the airflow around the coil, when the motor is running also cools down the coil a bit ? I would be not surprised, if this 0.2 degrees change is just coming from the rotor doing the increased airflow around the coil ! Also oyu have to be very sure, that the RF power from the coil and commutator is not jamming your digital thermometer ! When I filmed my Newman machine with the videocamera, there was so much RF power, the tape recording was tottaly jammed with white noise patches inside the picture ! To get a better proof, you would need to use a normal analog thermometer and capsule the coil out of the airflow from the rotating rotor. It is really hard to measure ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 9 12:52:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29700; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:44:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:44:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35A51B19.4718D19F@harti.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 21:33:45 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: Minnato Mexico city Magnetic motor demonstration, how was it ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"g5ldA1.0.tF7.2sHfr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5218 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Did anybody already hear anything ? Was it demonstrated to run on itsself ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 9 14:24:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10246; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:15:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:15:40 -0700 Message-ID: <19980709202633.17234.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [206.175.71.242] From: "Melody O'Hare" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: REMOVE FROM DISTRIBUTION Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 13:26:30 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"PWtPl3.0._V2.yBJfr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5219 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 7 20:01:10 1998 >Received: (from smartlst@localhost) > by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29272; > Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:30:00 -0700 >Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:30:00 -0700 >Message-ID: <001f01bdaa18$9748a760$0711a098@data> >From: "Edward Kauffmann" >To: "Jerry W. Decker" >Cc: , , >Subject: Re: more on Flipping Magnetic Fields >Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:31:49 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDA9F7.085A6500" >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 >Resent-Message-ID: <"PX4ny2.0.I97.dcjer"@mx1> >Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5203 >X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Precedence: list >Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > >Hi Everyone, > >I just dug up this email Jerry sent a few months back and tried to = >duplicate >this effect. I got the effects mentioned except the poles do not appear = >to >flip as indicated below. > >This is the key statement: > >>> He says this happens not because the attraction to the plate is >>> stronger than the pole repulsions (after all, it has magnetized the >>> plate with the same polarity so is essentially an extension of the >>> magnet pole energy)....but he says he watched the fields at = >different >>> points and when the magnets begin to attract, the moving magnet pole >>> actually FLIPS! > > >From what I see, the attraction IS from the plate being stronger than = >the >pole repulsions. If the field flipped, wouldn't it then be possible to >bring another magnet of unlike pole up next to the one now stuck to the >other side of the plate and have it repel? > >Has anyone else played more with this? > >Regards, > >Ed > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jerry W. Decker >To: KeelyNet-L@lists.kz >Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; vortex-l@eskimo.com > >Date: Saturday, March 07, 1998 1:23 PM >Subject: Flipping Magnetic Fields?? > > >>Hi Folks! >> >>This is an email I sent to a friend and researcher; >> >>> Well, better to try and fail....this info was shared courtesy of Wes >>> Crosiar..so thank him if you have occasion to communicate...he's = >been >>> ill with a flu and is better now... >> >>> Something odd you might be interested in...a fellow (Wes) says you >>> can take a magnet, like a cylinder or bar....put a thick metal piece >>> on one pole (doesn't matter)....then bring a similar magnet close to >>> the metal plate so that the approaching pole is identical to the one >>> it is moving near to. >> >>> As I am told, when you slowly move the magnet towards the metal = >plate, >>> you will find the magnets repel until right before you get to the >>> plate...then all of sudden, it will attract and both magnets will >>> stick to the plate. >> >>> He says this happens not because the attraction to the plate is >>> stronger than the pole repulsions (after all, it has magnetized the >>> plate with the same polarity so is essentially an extension of the >>> magnet pole energy)....but he says he watched the fields at = >different >>> points and when the magnets begin to attract, the moving magnet pole >>> actually FLIPS! >> >>> He believes this is the key to the Sweet device, the Minato >>> self-driven magnetic wheel and other devices....it is almost exactly >>> what Wesley Gary said happened with his magnetic 'neutral line'..... >> >>> Isn't that interesting???? I'm going to do that when I get some = >steel >>> plate...he says the thicker the >better....-------------------------------------------- >>The email response was; >> >>>> Well - it does! (flip polarity) >>>> I have a few rare earths. This effect can be seen at 4 to 6 inches. >>>> The non metallic magnet turns and tries to spin around. (I just went >>>> in the shop and tested it!) There is something else odd, the magnet = >at >>>> a distance, turns about 30 to 45 degrees and stays there. >>>> (with regard to the Minato self-running bicycle wheel as at; >>>> http://keelynet.com/gravity/curtis0.htm ) I am trying to find a >>>> small smooth plate I can mount 1 nib to so I can see exactly what it >>>> does. It would seem many on a plate will turn..... >> >>>> But I have to test this magnet thingy! I find heavy chrome from my = >old >>>> motorcycle makes super conductor for magnets. I get more power using >>>> them than iron. If I can rig it, I will have pictures for >you. ------------------------------------------------- >>Many of my associates think the Sweet device used such a magnetic = >bubble >>switch effect, and Wes says Coler and Hendershot also used it..>>> = >Jerry >>-- >> Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com >> http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" >> Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 >> KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 >> > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 9 23:22:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA09528; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 23:18:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 23:18:56 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <37855564.35a5b1f0@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 02:17:19 EDT To: mrand910@yahoo.com, ddameron@earthlink.net, harti@harti.com, leoguitar@vossnet.de, gmeast@pacbell.net Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re : Re: A COOLING effect has been observed. Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 116 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA09500 Resent-Message-ID: <"9daCB1.0.nK2.F9Rfr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5220 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Michael, Stefan and all, On 09/07/1998 17:49:46 , mrand910@yahoo.com wrote : << Are you also planning on using batteries for your power source like Greg? >> Not yet, I have prefered to study and understand the main effect first, and now I shall try to charge the small 1.2V cad nickel accumulator that I have used for making my portable HV power supply. The power consumption needed for generating the HV is about 250mw....Now I need to find this power in the Newman's machine for recharging this small accumulator with the negative current. Now, I need to think about the electronic diagram principle for finding the best way to collect the excess of energy observed, this is only an electronic engineering problem. ---------------- On 09/07/1998 21:06:17 , harti@harti.com wrote : <> No, I don't think so, the turn speed is low (286RPM) and this generate a very weak aerodynamics effect generated by the rotation of the rotor and also because the rotor is a simple disk shaped. I have also put the temperature probe in the middle of the coil in the best area ( opposite side to the RF influence of the commutator and far from the rotor (see the picture in my web site). Don't forget that the Joules effects thermal losses can be strong due to the high resistance of the coil (17332 ohms) with 626V.... ------------- << When I filmed my Newman machine with the videocamera, there was so much RF power, the tape recording was tottaly jammed with white noise patches inside the picture !>> Does my pictures that I have showed in my web site and taken during the running with my video camescope are trouble ? :-) Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 10 02:21:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA06658; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 02:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 02:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35A5DA8A.4E7CC526@harti.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:10:34 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: mrand910@yahoo.com, ddameron@earthlink.net, Stefan Hartmann , gmeast@pacbell.net, newman-l@emachine.com, JNaudin509@aol.com Subject: Re: recharging your Newman battery !? References: <37855564.35a5b1f0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Aj6-32.0.yd1.IpTfr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5221 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > Hi Michael, Stefan and all, > > On 09/07/1998 17:49:46 , mrand910@yahoo.com wrote : > << Are you also planning on using batteries for your power source like > Greg? >> > > Not yet, I have prefered to study and understand the main effect first, and > now I shall try to charge the small 1.2V cad nickel accumulator that I have > used for making my portable HV power supply. The power consumption needed for > generating the HV is about 250mw....Now I need to find this power in the > Newman's machine for recharging this small accumulator with the negative > current. > Now, I need to think about the electronic diagram principle for finding the > best way to collect the excess of energy observed, this is only an electronic > engineering problem. Hmm, maybe it is better just to recharge 4 x 1.25 Volts batteries, so use a different HV portable device. (I mean your photo-flash device !) It is easier to recharge the device with 6 Volts at 41 mA than 1.2 Volts at 208 mA from the Newman output, right ? > > > No, I don't think so, the turn speed is low (286RPM) and this generate a very > weak aerodynamics effect generated by the rotation of the rotor and also > because the rotor is a simple disk shaped. I have also put the temperature > probe in the middle of the coil in the best area ( opposite side to the RF > influence of the commutator and far from the rotor (see the picture in my web > site). Don't forget that the Joules effects thermal losses can be strong due > to the high resistance of the coil (17332 ohms) with 626V.... > I donīt know, more testing is probably needed to have a final proof of the cooling effect ! > ------------- > << When I filmed my Newman machine with the videocamera, there was so much RF > power, > the tape recording was tottaly jammed with white noise patches inside the > picture > !>> > Does my pictures that I have showed in my web site and taken during the > running with my video camescope are trouble ? :-) Well, when I filmed it 10 years ago, I only had a VHS-C camcorder with a still tube image recording unit, no CCD sensor yet ! This tube also was influenced by the magnet rotating inside the coil ! Also it captured somehow all the RF power from my Newman machine and produced white sprinkle (fishes) noise inside the picture. You can see it in my MPEG movies at harti*.mpg at : www.overunity.com/nnew When I start the magnet rotor the noise appears also in the MPEG ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 10 08:21:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA29345; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:16:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:16:19 -0700 Message-ID: <19980710141734.21431.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:17:34 -0700 (PDT) From: mr mojo Subject: Re: Re : Re: A COOLING effect has been observed. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"dPeBn2.0.JA7.21Zfr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5222 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Hi Michael, Stefan and all, > > On 09/07/1998 17:49:46 , mrand910@yahoo.com wrote : > << Are you also planning on using batteries for your power source like > Greg? >> > > Not yet, I have prefered to study and understand the main effect first, and > now I shall try to charge the small 1.2V cad nickel accumulator that I have > used for making my portable HV power supply. The power consumption needed for > generating the HV is about 250mw....Now I need to find this power in the > Newman's machine for recharging this small accumulator with the negative > current. > Now, I need to think about the electronic diagram principle for finding the > best way to collect the excess of energy observed, this is only an electronic > engineering problem. > > ---------------- > On 09/07/1998 21:06:17 , harti@harti.com wrote : > < also cools down the coil a bit ? > I would be not surprised, if this 0.2 degrees change is just coming from > the rotor doing the increased airflow around the coil ! > Also oyu have to be very sure, that the RF power from the coil and commutator > is not jamming your digital thermometer ! > >> Point of order here... Cooling implies that there is a difference in temperature, from hot to cold. If the coil was warmer than RT then we can say that the cooling involved. What was reported is the reverse, the coil is cooler than RT. Reverse entropy if real. I would like to see this repeated with good calibrated regular thermometers. The 0.2 deg C may be real, but it is also likely to be in the normal measurement error of the device. Also a regular thermometer would not be influenced by the EMI running around.... If this true, we have a new method to cool our houses... > > No, I don't think so, the turn speed is low (286RPM) and this generate a very > weak aerodynamics effect generated by the rotation of the rotor and also > because the rotor is a simple disk shaped. I have also put the temperature > probe in the middle of the coil in the best area ( opposite side to the RF > influence of the commutator and far from the rotor (see the picture in my web > site). Don't forget that the Joules effects thermal losses can be strong due > to the high resistance of the coil (17332 ohms) with 626V.... > > ------------- > << When I filmed my Newman machine with the videocamera, there was so much RF > power, > the tape recording was tottaly jammed with white noise patches inside the > picture > !>> > Does my pictures that I have showed in my web site and taken during the > running with my video camescope are trouble ? :-) > > Jean-Louis Naudin > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 10 15:23:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22080; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:20:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:20:26 -0700 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalar Term in Maxwell Equations Message-ID: <19980710.181611.8239.5.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <199807090626.XAA22190@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-6,10-12,14-20,22-25,27-30,34-35,37-38,43-44, 46-47,51-52,57-61 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:16:38 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"gSYJF1.0.fO5.dEffr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5223 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 8 Jul 1998 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT) dave dameron writes: >Hi Steve and all, >Could you please tell the Dover book title? The Dover edition is called "A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism", first published in 1954, is a "slightly edited" (their words) of Maxwell's 1891 third edition. I got it at the Virginia Tech Bookstore back in 1992. >I am very curious of what you find out. For example, the divergence of >a vector B is defined as =dB(x)/dx +dB(y)/dy +dB(z)/dz, these are partial derivatives. >It can be shown as = to the outward flux of B per unit volume. Am sure >it's used in many other fields, such as fluid mechanics. >Is this idea different in quaterion notation vs. vector notation, or >is just the notation different? In vector Maxwell's equations, divergence B >=0. Is there some term that was dropped, or is writing B as 3 (x,y,z) >vector components the "error"? What appears to be dropped was the term for scalar potential (see page 177, and bottom of page 239). What was used before page 257 of Vo. 2? The equations were pretty much in the "classical form" that you gave, and are related to equations in fields such as fluid mechanics. In a sense, that was the position that Whittacker took in his 1903 paper, and tied it to gravitation. Whittacker's 1904 paper looks at the significance of the scalar term, and sort of anticipates the Aharonov-Bohm effect. Although Maxwell seldom uses quaternion format (really gives a summary), he uses four scalar terms...the electric potential (the little greek letter psi), the magnetic potential (greek letter omega, the "ohms" symbol), as well as the electric (e) and magnetic (m) density. The quanities were found on page 257. Chapter 11, titled "On Energy and Stress in the EM Field", straight off uses the scalar term for electric potential in his equations. It is interesting to note in the introduction to Aharonov and Bohm's 1959 paper, they mention that the potentials can be ignored for many applications (witness modern technology), but are in-fact both real and primary. It apprears to me that what Maxwell termed the magnetic potential in his equations, are what we call the A-field now. Yet it appears that what Bearden discusses in his books is closer to the electric potential. So it appears that there are at least two different types of scalar fields, perhaps more. Any comments? Steve Heckman _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 10 16:12:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10825; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:09:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:09:19 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Grat Crabtree" To: Subject: cool news-negative resistance Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:06:31 -0700 Message-ID: <001e01bdac57$d97b2360$734368cf@gratnsue> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.1 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199807091740.KAA19727@mx1.eskimo.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"pGfgz1.0.ze2.Uyffr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5224 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/upi/story.html?s=n/upi/98/07/10/general _state_and_regional_news/nvsuperco_1.html Grat http://home.pacbell.net/gratnsue http://grat.home.ml.org From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 10 21:56:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA03895; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:54:36 -0700 (PDT) From: BrianABQ@aol.com Message-ID: <52031bf.35a6ee2f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:46:38 EDT To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: PLEASE Help Me With Problem - BrianABQ Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"D4NqO.0.my.A0lfr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5225 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here in New Mexico I can't go out side without becoming a beetle habitat. Bug Sprays don't work so I'm turning to you Freenrg-L subscribers. There is a way with Ultrasonics, or High picyhed sound from speakers. SOMEONE please help... Thanks, BrianABQ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 10 22:42:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA10130; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 22:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 22:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35A8043F.63B36511@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 17:33:04 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: PLEASE Help Me With Problem - BrianABQ References: <52031bf.35a6ee2f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NS3rU1.0.BU2.Bilfr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5226 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes you can buy sonic bug repellers, they do work quite well BrianABQ@aol.com wrote: > Here in New Mexico I can't go out side without becoming a beetle habitat. Bug > Sprays don't work so I'm turning to you Freenrg-L subscribers. There is a way > with Ultrasonics, or High picyhed sound from speakers. SOMEONE please help... > > Thanks, > BrianABQ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 11 11:20:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00401; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:17:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:17:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009301bdacf7$3690c9c0$69298e8b@plassy> From: "Plasmatic" To: Subject: Re: Re : Re: A COOLING effect has been observed. Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:10:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"jM3wE.0.B6.4nwfr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5227 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: As for the cooling effect, it must be true cooling for one reason: That much power going through a coil of wire is going to create a fair amount of heat. That's one reason for the cooling fans in power supplies. There are MANY products out there that have cooling fans, if not just vents, to let off the heat from transformers and other high-stressed equipment. If the temperature is DROPPING, then this cannot just be the wind, because it shouldn't overcome the heat of the coil. How many joules are being worked with here? It shouldn't be too hard to find out the temperature rised caused by this energy flow. As for the RF from the magnets, I would have to say that you would see a fluctuation in the meter reading if it was being influenced by RF or EM radiation. Just my thoughts... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 11 12:35:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11999; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00b401bdad01$91a62800$2c3cd6d1@martylin> From: "MartyDonna" To: Subject: Re: Re : Re: A COOLING effect has been observed. Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:24:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"DvWWp1.0.Ix2.nsxfr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5228 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Probaly the Peltier effect. The current is heating one part of it so it's cooling another part. My Electronics Web Page http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/ -----Original Message----- From: Plasmatic To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, July 11, 1998 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Re : Re: A COOLING effect has been observed. >As for the cooling effect, it must be true cooling for one reason: That much >power going through a coil of wire is going to create a fair amount of heat. >That's one reason for the cooling fans in power supplies. There are MANY >products out there that have cooling fans, if not just vents, to let off the >heat from transformers and other high-stressed equipment. If the >temperature is DROPPING, then this cannot just be the wind, because it >shouldn't overcome the heat of the coil. How many joules are being worked >with here? It shouldn't be too hard to find out the temperature rised >caused by this energy flow. As for the RF from the magnets, I would have to >say that you would see a fluctuation in the meter reading if it was being >influenced by RF or EM radiation. Just my thoughts... > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 11 16:15:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25894; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 16:11:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 16:11:52 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01bdad21$2fe4ed20$583e19d0@thomas> From: "Thomas Spellman" To: Subject: Re: Marketing Free energy Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 16:11:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"lbDSj.0.WK6.u4_fr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5229 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The shareware patent is an excellent idea. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Colvin To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 8:11 AM Subject: Re: Marketing Free energy Hi, How about a "shareware" patent, similar to software? Since the patent system won't allow a free energy device to be patented. Any comments? Bob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 11 17:15:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02932; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 17:11:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 17:11:16 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Re: A COOLING effect has been observed. Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 00:11:16 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35a7fd78.48651247@mail-hub> References: <009301bdacf7$3690c9c0$69298e8b@plassy> In-Reply-To: <009301bdacf7$3690c9c0$69298e8b@plassy> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TC70P3.0.jj.Zy_fr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5230 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:10:35 -0600, Plasmatic wrote: >As for the cooling effect, it must be true cooling for one reason: That much >power going through a coil of wire is going to create a fair amount of heat. That "fair amount" is in fact about 650^2/17500 ~= 24 watts, about the power of a car tail lamp. On a coil that size, you probably wouldn't measure any temperature rise even with no cooling at all. The real question is: Did the room temperature also go down by the same amount at the same time? (Before and after measurements are not good enough). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 11 21:57:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07361; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:53:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:53:49 -0700 Message-ID: <35A84150.DDD0FB15@t-link.net> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 18:53:36 -1000 From: Alastair Couper Reply-To: aquarius@t-link.net Organization: aquarian electronics X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A COOLING effect has been observed References: <199807111820.LAA00859@mx2.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xg8C83.0.xo1.T54gr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5231 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greetings, I don't think that simply blowing wind past the coil is causing the reading in question. Our experience of wind caused cooling is only due to having moisture involved, and the evaporation results in cooling of the substrate. If the coil is totally without condensed moisture, then any amount of air flow could not lower the temperature beyond its thermal equilibrium with the environment. In fact, it may be that wind flow may actually be masking the effect, a totally enclosed unit may actually get colder than an open air unit, if indeed reverse entropy is occurring. -- Alastair Couper aquarius@ccmaui.net Aquarian Electronics Maui, Hawaii http://www.ccmaui.net/~aquarius/aquarian.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 11 23:05:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04598; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:00:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:00:38 -0700 Message-ID: <35A85113.5F8B6D93@pcmagic.net> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:00:51 -0700 From: Albert Yang X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy Subject: Obelisks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YnDSr1.0.h71.645gr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5232 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I was watching Nova the other day, and they were trying to raise an obelisk, I think I know how it was done. I wrote a cheezy paper on it, I don't really know how to explain what I'm thinking, I'm hoping someone who reads it will understand and explain it better. http://www.pcmagic.net/lithium if you go to the graphics section, under downloads, you can view my theory. Sorryt the file is so big, I don't know why it's so big, my ms word file was only 47K. But take a look, tell me what you think, and if someone out there is REALLY bored and just happen to have a 40 tone limestone laying around and would like to try out my theory, let me know. Do I really think it'll work, probably not. But I just want to add another theory out there, hopefully it will inspire someone else to come up with the correct theory. But as of yet, it hasn't been proven to not work. Albert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 11 23:43:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA08902; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:41:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:41:21 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 02:40:35 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au, aquarius@t-link.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re : Re: Re : Re: A COOLING effect has been observed. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 116 Resent-Message-ID: <"uJq5n.0.0B2.Hg5gr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5233 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 12/07/1998 02:15:23 , rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au wrote : << The real question is: Did the room temperature also go down by the same amount at the same time? (Before and after measurements are not good enough). >> During all the test phase, the lab temperature was constant (21.5 degrees). The observation of the Newman's Machine and the collect of the temperature datas has been done at a distance at least of 2 meters for avoiding any change in the surrounding of the experiment. A short exception has been done only for taking the two pictures snapshoot showed in my web site. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 11 23:57:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17171; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:56:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:56:33 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: A COOLING effect has been observed. Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 06:49:05 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35ab5bd5.72817414@mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RT3oG3.0.CC4.Vu5gr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5234 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 12 Jul 1998 02:40:35 EDT, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: >On 12/07/1998 02:15:23 , rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au wrote : > ><< The real question is: Did the room temperature also go down by the > same amount at the same time? > (Before and after measurements are not good enough). > >> > >During all the test phase, the lab temperature was constant (21.5 degrees). >The observation of the Newman's Machine and the collect of the temperature >datas has been done at a distance at least of 2 meters for avoiding any change >in the surrounding of the experiment. A short exception has been done only for >taking the two pictures snapshoot showed in my web site. [snip] Ok, what about a simple control test? I.e. run the two thermocouples(thermistors?) both for the same time, but just measure room temperature with both of them, and check for differences between the two. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 12 05:52:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA04905; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 05:49:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 05:49:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980712122612.007c8ad0@pop.xs4all.nl> X-Sender: shealiak@pop.xs4all.nl X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:26:12 +0100 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Timothy van der Linden Subject: Re: A COOLING effect has been observed. In-Reply-To: <35a7fd78.48651247@mail-hub> References: <009301bdacf7$3690c9c0$69298e8b@plassy> <009301bdacf7$3690c9c0$69298e8b@plassy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hJPKb.0.TC1.a3Bgr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5235 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin wrote: >That "fair amount" is in fact about 650^2/17500 ~= 24 watts, about the >power of a car tail lamp. On a coil that size, you probably wouldn't >measure any temperature rise even with no cooling at all. >The real question is: Did the room temperature also go down by the >same amount at the same time? >(Before and after measurements are not good enough). And if I understand the commutator design correctly, current flows only for 1/6 of the time. (ie. 1/6 of the suface of the commutator is conducting) However using the figure of 626 Volt may not be correct. The commutator is designed in such a way that the brushes don't touch the contacts. If it weren't for the sparks, there would not be a current at all. Futhermore the extremly high selfinductance of 220 Henry will increase the resistance of the coil at quite low frequencies. The normal frequency of 286 rotations per minute (say 5 Hz) will just get through the coil, but high frequency (>100 Hz) spikes from the sparks will have much more trouble. Timothy From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 12 09:41:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00549; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 09:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 09:40:04 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:29:30 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: test delete Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"5jc0I.0.U8.XREgr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5236 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: test delete From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 12 10:13:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23402; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:08:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:08:51 -0700 Message-ID: <35A8E8FB.9D98A41E@pcmagic.net> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 09:48:59 -0700 From: Albert Yang X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "KeelyNet-L-help@lists.kz" , Free Energy Subject: Obelisk theory, please give me some input Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jUXXw1.0.aj5.YsEgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5237 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OK, I have an obelisk theory. You can read more about it on my homepage where I have a cheezy diagram attached to the theory. http://www.pcmagic.net/lithium You'll find it under the download section. My theory: Combustion. You have the obelisk laying down, you anticipate where you want it to stand, and then build 3 retaining walls around where it's going to stand, so you don't actually have to measure that precisely or aim, because the retaining walls limit where the obelisk can stand. Walls are fairly easy to build to any height. Then, you fill a hole below the obelisk with some sort of combustable fluid, like crude oil or diesel, place a log or another piece of stone between the fluid and the obelisk, and ignite. You have a lot of factors, but they are all controllable factors. You can test Newton/litre as far as force generated by the fluid, we know how long the obelisk weighs, where the relative center of gravity is, and how much force at what point would be needed to erect it. We now control every factor of the erection of the obelisk. Also, from what I read about biodiesel, and the availability of crude in that part of the world, it would then seem feasible. Also, when I was young, I remember my uncle, who's a plumber, he used a method that was similar. He would need to insert a pipe that's about 20 feet long straight down a hole, but he can't really lift it up by himself. So he'd tie a firecracker (M-80) and a block of wood to one end, and have me light it. Pow, the pipe would stand staight up. He would know how far from the end he'd have to put the firecracker, depending on the length. Easy sum moment measurement. I'd love to try out my theory, but I am not really that great with combustion, and my physics is limited.... Not to mention the fact that I just don't have a 40 ton obelisk laying in my backyard to test my theory on. Your thoughts and input would be great. I'm probably bad at explaining things, so download my white paper and look at the pictures. Thanks. Albert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 12 14:29:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA30802; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 14:25:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 14:25:06 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <143cf6d2.35a92987@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 17:24:21 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Sorry for the tests, but having email problems Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"a25Wi3.0.7X7.ncIgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5238 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I am sorry for the tests (test delete) that have had to post to the lists. I am having very strange problems when I post to the lists only (Free Energy, Vortex, Newman,) all other lists post ok. I get a returned mail (bounced) to my address as if I sent it. These are the addresses, ----The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ---- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- Some times these addresses will go out with a post and other times they will not. I am working with the list people as I can contact them and have already talked with AOL about it. I did not want to use banwidth to explain this but I got one nasty post and thought I would explain that the test were needed as I was getting unsubscribed to Free Energy every time I posted due to bounced mail. I would like to thank everyone who did not send a nasty letter and could see that I was just having mail problems and did not use it as an excuse to vent there anxieties. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 12 19:20:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16530; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 19:14:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 19:14:45 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980713021334.0068ab74@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:13:34 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: PLEASE Help Me With Problem - BrianABQ Resent-Message-ID: <"LX7B43.0.A24.KsMgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5239 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:33 PM 7/11/98 -0700, you wrote: >Yes you can buy sonic bug repellers, they do work quite well > >BrianABQ@aol.com wrote: > >> Here in New Mexico I can't go out side without becoming a beetle habitat. Bug >> Sprays don't work so I'm turning to you Freenrg-L subscribers. There is a way >> with Ultrasonics, or High picyhed sound from speakers. SOMEONE please help... >> >> Thanks, >> BrianABQ > > I was on the Rife list for awhile an if I remember right one of the side effects of using the Rife beam was that it killed bugs. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 12 23:41:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11439; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:37:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:37:36 -0700 Message-ID: <004a01bdae27$97009fc0$3c3cd6d1@martylin> From: "MartyDonna" To: Subject: question Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 02:28:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"ELLMd2.0.fo2.miQgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5240 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: about a month ago when that country above china ( can't remember the name of it) conducted those underground A bomb test was anybody out there running a cap test like the one T T brown did. I was wondering if showed it or not? Also has anybody ever conducted any test of 2 metal plates rotating either relative or opposite to each other , set up in a vacum of course, & applied (DC or AC of different freq). I was wondering what the results would be if any. My Electronics Web Page http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 04:20:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA18826; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 04:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 04:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35A9EA9E.D6CA3197@harti.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:08:14 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l Subject: Greg Watson refunded you ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jAdZy2.0.4c4.hqUgr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5241 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, who did go for a refund for the not shipping SMOT unit and who did already get the refund ? Please let me know. My refund did not yet come in. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 05:12:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22555; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 05:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 05:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Sender: mthomas@estsa2.estec.esa.nl Message-ID: <35A9F76A.8286DBF6@astro.estec.esa.nl> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:02:51 +0200 From: Mark Thomas Organization: ESTEC/CARA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.17 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l Subject: Re: Greg Watson refunded you ? References: <35A9EA9E.D6CA3197@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UVjAb2.0.IW5.7bVgr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5242 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stephane, I informed Greg Watson, that I would like a refund if the SMOT 4 kits had not been shipped before the end of May 1998. I have not yet received a SMOT kit or a refund. Greg Watson is clearly a fraud and a cheat. Regards, Mark Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Hi, > who did go for a refund for the not shipping SMOT unit and > who did already get the refund ? > > Please let me know. > > My refund did not yet come in. > > Regards, Stefan. > > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann > Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com > Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 10:12:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04944; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:08:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:08:17 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:06:14 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re:Butch, any news from trip to lab ? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"SEpeA.0.AD1.1yZgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5243 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-12 12:46:43 EDT, you write: << Are you still in the lab at your friendīs location ? Did you test your new idea ? Regards, Stefan. >> Hi Stefan and all, Yes, I am back home and have had a very productive trip. I am putting together something for the list now. By the way, have any of you ever heard of "magnet wire" that is not copper, but made of other metals, steel, ect.? When I say magnet wire, I mean wire that is insulated in the same fashion as wire used in electric motor windings. Regards, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 10:15:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10897; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:14:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:06:50 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: weirdsci-list@eskimo.com Subject: Daily Affirmations Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GLSrd.0.5g2.c1agr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5244 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L DAILY AFFIRMATIONS * As I let go of my feelings of guilt, I can get in touch with my Inner Sociopath. * I have the power to channel my imagination into ever-soaring levels of suspicion and paranoia. * I assume full responsibility for my actions, except the ones that are someone else's fault. * I no longer need to punish, deceive or compromise myself. Unless, of course, I want to stay employed. * In some cultures what I do would be considered normal. * Having control over myself is nearly as good as having control over others. * My intuition nearly makes up for my lack of good judgment. * I honor my personality flaws, for without them I would have no personality at all. * Joan of Arc heard voices too. * I am grateful that I am not as judgmental as all those censorious, self-righteous people around me. * I need not suffer in silence while I can still moan, whimper and complain. * As I learn the innermost secrets of the people around me, they reward me in many ways to keep me quiet. * When someone hurts me, forgiveness is cheaper than a lawsuit. But not nearly as gratifying. * The first step is to say nice things about myself. The second, to do nice things for myself. The third, to find someone to buy me nice things. * As I learn to trust the universe, I no longer need to carry a gun. * All of me is beautiful and valuable, even the ugly, stupid, and disgusting parts. * I am at one with my duality. * Blessed are the flexible, for they can tie themselves into knots. * I will strive to live each day as if it were my 40th birthday. * Only a lack of imagination saves me from immobilizing myself with imaginary fears. * I honor and express all facets of my being, regardless of state and local laws. * Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so." * False hope is nicer than no hope at all. * A good scapegoat is nearly as welcome as a solution to the problem. * Just for today, I will not sit in my living room all day watching TV. Instead I will move my TV into the bedroom. * Who can I blame for my own problems? Give me just a minute... I'll find someone. * It's not whether you win or lose, but where you place the blame. * Why should I waste my time reliving the past when I can spend it worrying about the future? * The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign that the conspiracy is working. * I am learning that criticism is not nearly as effective as sabotage. * Becoming aware of my character defects leads me to the next step---blaming my parents. * To have a successful relationship I must learn to make it look like I'm giving as much as I'm getting. * I am willing to make the mistakes if someone else is willing to learn from them. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 10:52:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19155; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:48:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:48:37 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDAE5C.3B6A7A20.stk@sunherald.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Biefield-Brown effect questions Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:46:17 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NChJT2.0.Ch4.rXagr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5245 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: Does anyone here know what the factors are to the Biefield-Brown effect that increase the effect? If so, what are these factors. Thanks, Kyle R. Mcallister Email: stk@sunherald.infi.net Phone: 228-875-0629 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/5257 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 11:01:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21969; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:56:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:56:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199807131756.KAA21951@mx1.eskimo.com> From: "Edward Kauffmann" To: Subject: Re: Re:Butch, any news from trip to lab ? Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:35:51 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"El3F72.0.AN5.Zfagr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5246 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Butch, I've been learning a lot about magnetic motors is the past few weeks and have been experimenting myself. I would be interested in any new information you have, if you are willing to share it. I plan to do some animations of my own to show some of the ideas I have been digging up. I must admit, most of this stuff has been done before in one form or another over the years. It just comes down to getting a permanent magnet to turn on and off based on the spin of a PM rotor. It's like getting a laser to work before we knew how to do it. Once we can reproduce that little effect, there will be many different ways to come to the same conclusion. Like light bouncing off a mirror, one can patent a method of using mirrors and light, but one can not patent the principle itself. Regards, Ed ---------- > From: HLafonte@aol.com > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re:Butch, any news from trip to lab ? > Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 1:06 PM > > In a message dated 98-07-12 12:46:43 EDT, you write: > > << Are you still in the lab at your friendīs location ? > > Did you test your new idea ? > > Regards, Stefan. >> > Hi Stefan and all, > Yes, I am back home and have had a very productive trip. > I am putting together something for the list now. > By the way, have any of you ever heard of "magnet wire" that is not copper, > but made of other metals, steel, ect.? When I say magnet wire, I mean wire > that is insulated in the same fashion as wire used in electric motor windings. > Regards, > Butch > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 12:28:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03898; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:26:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:20:35 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Re: Obelisks Resent-Message-ID: <"ddXXd1.0.py.Ezbgr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5247 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You all should think of obelisks as being always in pairs. It was modern-day man that took one away and out it some city or another. Why in pairs? ---> Tuning forks. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 12:30:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03991; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:27:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:20:38 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Re: question Resent-Message-ID: <"5lBlO1.0.G-.F-bgr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5248 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See the info on the Swiss M-L Converter on the INE website at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ 5 kW from the air. Repeatable. Demonstrated. Not understood. PB. >about a month ago when that country above china ( can't remember the name of >it) conducted those underground A bomb test was anybody out there running a >cap test like the one T T brown did. I was wondering if showed it or not? > >Also has anybody ever conducted any test of 2 metal plates rotating either >relative or opposite to each other , set up in a vacum of course, & applied >(DC or AC of different freq). I was wondering what the results would be if >any. > >My Electronics Web Page >http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 13:43:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09408; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:38:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:38:28 -0700 Message-ID: <19980713201810.15406.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:18:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: Biefield-Brown effect questions To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"KtTSM2.0.wI2.31dgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5249 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle, Read thru some of the www.soteria.com TT Brown documents -- those docs mention the factors that increase the effect....same factors also seem to apply to the petrovoltaic effect as well. I wrote them down somewhere, but it's easier and more informative to read them on your own. [things like dielectric surface area, high K dielectric, and density of meterial come to mind] See: http://www.soteria.com/brown Browse thru the 'documents' section for Electrogravitic and Pertrovoltaic refs. ---"Kyle R. Mcallister" wrote: > > All: > > Does anyone here know what the factors are to the Biefield-Brown effect that increase the effect? If so, what are these factors. > > Thanks, > Kyle R. Mcallister > Email: stk@sunherald.infi.net > Phone: 228-875-0629 > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/5257 > > == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 13:54:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11732; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:49:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:49:01 -0700 Message-ID: <19980713204836.275.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [195.232.55.191] From: "margur gurmar" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:48:35 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"_9CHl1.0.Dt2.yAdgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5250 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If the machine is producing more output then input, and at the same time it cools down, it is possible that the exta output energy comes from the environment. In this case you do not have an over-unity machine, but some kind of heat pump which takes heat from the environment, and converts it somehow into electricity. I suggest leting the machine run some time in a thermally insulated box, and comparing the temperature inside the box to the temperature outside. In such a case a temperature differential should exist between some points of the machine (perhaps between the beginning and the end of the wire of the coil?), which would serve as cold and hot sinks. Should indeed the machine be able to run itself (and produce extra work) by extracting heat from the environment, our grand children should start preparing themselves to living in a very long and cold winter... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 14:50:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23261; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:35:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:35:43 -0700 Message-ID: <19980713211524.27672.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [195.232.55.191] From: "margur gurmar" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: re:cooling effect (repeat) Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:15:24 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"hg8o53.0.Nh5.ksdgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5251 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If the machine is producing more output then input, and at the same time it cools down, it is possible that the extra output energy comes from the environment. In this case you do not have an over-unity machine, but some kind of heat pump which takes heat from the environment, and converts it somehow into electricity. I suggest letting the machine run some time in a thermally insulated box, and comparing the temperature inside the box to the temperature outside. In such a case a temperature differential should exist between some points of the machine (perhaps between the beginning and the end of the wire of the coil?), which would serve as cold and hot sinks. Should indeed the machine be able to run itself (and produce extra work) by extracting heat from the environment, our grand children should start preparing themselves to living in a very long and cold winter... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 16:00:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21177; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:56:01 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:57:24 -0400 Subject: Re: cooling effect (repeat) Message-ID: <19980713.183447.6374.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <19980713211524.27672.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-4,6-10,14-15,18-20 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com (Stephen L Heckman) Resent-Message-ID: <"Hvvlm1.0.kA5.-1fgr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5252 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:15:24 PDT "margur gurmar" writes: >Should indeed the machine be able to run itself (and produce extra >work) by extracting heat from the environment, our grand children should >start preparing themselves to living in a very long and cold winter... > Not necessarily... we have been adding hear for centuries via fossile fuels, it was not the heat released by burning fossil fuels (which is considerable) that is responsible for the proposed "global warming", so I doubt that an equal amount of "cooling" would have any effect. On the other hand, the cooling effect at one point is most likely offset by heat at other points in the circuit (ie, the load), so the overall balance would be "zero" (and more than likely, an overall heating). Steve heckman _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 16:17:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA30591; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:13:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:13:42 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:13:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: re:cooling effect To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <19980713211524.27672.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0D15H.0.vT7.cIfgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5253 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, margur gurmar wrote: > If the machine is producing more output then input, > and at the same time it cools down, it is possible > that the extra output energy comes from the environment. > In this case you do not have an over-unity machine, but > some kind of heat pump which takes heat from the environment, > and converts it somehow into electricity. > I suggest letting the machine run some time in a thermally > insulated box, and comparing the temperature inside the box to the > temperature outside. > In such a case a temperature differential should exist between > some points of the machine (perhaps between the beginning and the > end of the wire of the coil?), which would serve as cold and hot sinks. > > Should indeed the machine be able to run itself (and produce extra work) > by extracting heat from the environment, our grand children should start > preparing themselves to living in a very long and cold winter... > It has been reported by several people who claim to have real O/U/O devices that parts run cold instead of hot (resistors and wire/coils get cold, even develop frost on the surface). Thomas E. Bearden has one explanation for this in several of his papers. It has to do with the source of the extra energy and the "Dirac Sea". Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 16:27:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA31826; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:17:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:17:00 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:59:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980713182004.4f0f39fa@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: question Resent-Message-ID: <"-PsQH.0.7n7.hLfgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5254 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello All, P Bailey, nice page but... which site on this page???? thanks mike s. At 12:20 PM 7/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >See the info on the Swiss M-L Converter on the INE website at: > >http://www.padrak.com/ine/ > >5 kW from the air. >Repeatable. Demonstrated. >Not understood. > >PB. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 17:15:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17986; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:10:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:10:50 -0700 Message-ID: <35AA9E94.567@microtec.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:56:04 -0400 From: Patrick Tremblay Reply-To: energeon@microtec.net Organization: Energeon X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: COOLING DEVICE References: <19980713211524.27672.qmail@hotmail.com> <19980713.183447.6374.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IPigT.0.xO4.A8ggr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5255 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, How could we build a SOLID STATE cooling apparaturs that would employ coils and/or resistors and/or capacitors to extract heat from a room, convert it in electricity and then conduct it via electric wires and then reject it with resistors loads or store it in a battery ? This would make a supreme air conditioning and heat sink that doesn't need any heat conducting liquids and chemicals, no mechanical parts to compress the heat liquid. They would cost less, be more compact, more efficient and powerfull and definetly outsell existing cooling systems. sincerely, -- Energeon, 7515 Jodelle, Laval West (quebec), Canada, H7R-5L5, FAX: 1-514-686-6083 PHONE: 1-514-962-1678 Patrick Tremblay energeon@microtec.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 17:22:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21175; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:20:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:20:20 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: "'energeon@microtec.net'" Subject: RE: COOLING DEVICE Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:25:46 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"f6dOI3.0.nA5.3Hggr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5256 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Small, relatively inexpensive refrigerators for use in campers, recreational vehicles and mobile homes are currently available based on semiconductor technology. Visit an RV or mobile home dealer to see or purchase some of these units. Charles > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick Tremblay [SMTP:energeon@microtec.net] > Sent: Monday, July 13, 1998 4:56 PM > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: COOLING DEVICE > > Hi, > > How could we build a SOLID STATE cooling apparaturs that would employ > coils and/or resistors and/or capacitors to extract heat from a room, > convert it in electricity and then conduct it via electric wires and > then reject it with resistors loads or store it in a battery ? > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 18:15:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00075; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:12:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:12:26 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BDAE5C.3B6A7A20.stk@sunherald.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:11:19 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Biefield-Brown effect questions Resent-Message-ID: <"9QaLU1.0.51.v1hgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5257 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle - > Does anyone here know what the factors are > to the Biefield-Brown effect that increase > the effect? If so, what are these factors. Mass allegedly, besides the obvious voltage level and dielectric constant of the material. I think mass might be the key to ferreting out any effect. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 18:30:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04965; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:27:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:27:31 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDAE9C.5886C380.stk@sunherald.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Biefield-Brown effect questions Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:25:14 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GJDTG.0.QD1.3Ghgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5258 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Rick Monteverde [SMTP:monteverde@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Monday, July 13, 1998 8:11 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Biefield-Brown effect questions >Mass allegedly, besides the obvious voltage level and dielectric constant >of the material. I think mass might be the key to ferreting out any effect. Mass...I hadn't considered that. By 'ferreting out any effect', I assume you mean a 'conventional' effect, correct? Kyle R. Mcallister P.S: I wonder what a Biefield-Brown effect device 7 foot in diameter, charged to very high (400kV+) voltage would do... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 23:54:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA05208; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807140644.XAA11208@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re:Butch, any news from trip to lab ? Resent-Message-ID: <"dhnzl3.0.HH1.d0mgr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5260 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Butch, At 01:06 PM 7/13/98 EDT, you wrote: >By the way, have any of you ever heard of "magnet wire" that is not copper, >but made of other metals, steel, ect.? When I say magnet wire, I mean wire >that is insulated in the same fashion as wire used in electric motor windings. >Regards, >Butch >MWS Wire industries makes wire of a lot of materials. They are expensive. Their number is 818 991-8553, in So. CA. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 23:55:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA05167; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:44:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807140644.XAA11167@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Magnet experiments (Fowarded) Resent-Message-ID: <"dLSiH1.0.fG1.T0mgr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5259 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, thought this may be interesting and am cross posting it: -Dave >> > I have been experementing with a magnetizer. It is 2 caps in parallel 4700 > uf 200 VDC each. The coil is about 500 turns of #24 wire. > > I have several small speaker magnets that I have been experimenting with > that measure 5/8" diameter by 5/8" long. > > 1. I tried to increase the magnetic field of each magnet by placing it in > the center of the coil and discharging the cap bank. If the magnet is > placed in the coil in the correct polarity the magnetic field strength > increase is very tiny. I would guess about 5% increase. > > 2. If I take the same magnet and put it in the same coil reverse polarity > and discharge the cap bank the magnet field is reversed. The end that use > to be north is now south and the end that use to be south is now north. The > magnetic strength is increased about 100% times but it lasts only a few > seconds then returns to normal. > > 3. If I stick 2 magnets together and place them in the coil and discharge > the cap bank the magnets strength increase much more than when doing the > same thing with only 1 magnet. If I stick 3 magnets together and discharge > the cap bank the magnets become so strong I can not pull them apart for > about 3 seconds. The magnet field strength doesn't last very long. It > reduces and stableizes in about 5 seconds but is much higher than before. > > 4. If I stick all 6 magnets together and discharge the cap bank the > strength of the magnets are increased 100 times. The magnets can not be > pulled apart for about 3 seconds. The magnet strength reduces and > stableizes in about 5 seconds. The magnet strength is much higher than > normal as long as I don't pull the magnets apart. If I set the magnets > aside and come back the next day or 2 weeks later the power of the magnets > are still very high. But if I pull the magnets apart they loose there super > power strength. > > 5. One magnet will lift a 1 lb. block of steel. After reverse magnetizing > 1 magnet it will lift 30 lbs for about 3 seconds. After 10 seconds the > magnet will list only 1 lb. > > 6. Six magnets in a stack after being super magnetized will lift a 100 lb. > block of steel off of my garage floor for about 3 seconds. After a few > seconds the magnets will lift only 16 lbs. If I pull the magnets apart and > then put them back together they loose some strength and will lift only 2 lbs. > > 7. I super charged 6 magnets and placed them on the work bench for 2 weeks. > They will still lift 16 lbs. after 2 weeks. After pulling the magnets apart > and putting them back together they will lift only 2 lbs. > > Its interesting that the magnets can be temperarly super charged. >> >>Gary >Sounds like you have alnico 5's Actually most high remenance magnetic materials >will exhibit the action you note. This is normal. It is the central magnets >that >are super charged. The end magnets are not. The internal magnets are shielded >from sliding back off the B-H curve to what is called Br or the " remenant >induction", which is far less than the magnetizing force. This only happens >when >the bulk of the hi mu magnetic magnetizing path is opened after magnetizing. >This is why may alnico structures are magnetizied "in situ" and never >magnetized >with a machine and then assembled in the final struture. As long as the >central >magnets are held with two end keepers (they don't have to be other magnets), >they >remain unusually strong. on separation, they quickly finish the normal slide >off >the curve, losing lots of there original induction which was protected by the >end >keepers.. > >Richard Hull, TCBOR > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 13 23:54:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04368; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:50:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:50:59 -0700 Message-ID: <19980714060214.28739.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:02:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: RE: Biefield-Brown effect questions To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"p8Rvb2.0.941.J_lgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5261 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---"Kyle R. Mcallister" wrote: > > P.S: I wonder what a Biefield-Brown effect device 7 foot in diameter, charged to very high (400kV+) voltage would do... > > Probably fly like the dickens.......Watch out though -- you might become classified like TT Brown did ;) == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 00:30:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10729; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:25:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:25:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980714165421.008616b0@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:54:21 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: question In-Reply-To: <004a01bdae27$97009fc0$3c3cd6d1@martylin> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"GxzFI.0.Ud2.mVmgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5262 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:28 AM 7/13/98 -0400, you wrote: >about a month ago when that country above china ( can't remember the name of >it) conducted those underground A bomb test was anybody out there running a >cap test like the one T T brown did. I was wondering if showed it or not? > >Also has anybody ever conducted any test of 2 metal plates rotating either >relative or opposite to each other , set up in a vacum of course, & applied >(DC or AC of different freq). I was wondering what the results would be if >any. > >My Electronics Web Page >http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/ > >You might like to check out my website overview page there is a link to an article to guy here in Australia that has been toying with something similiar. might be of interest to you. http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 and look for overview description of device Geoff > > > Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me. Like to hear from You From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 00:33:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10663; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980714165147.00842300@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:51:47 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: question In-Reply-To: <004a01bdae27$97009fc0$3c3cd6d1@martylin> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"yKDT13.0.Xc2.Zamgr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5263 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:28 AM 7/13/98 -0400, you wrote: >about a month ago when that country above china ( can't remember the name of >it) conducted those underground A bomb test was anybody out there running a >cap test like the one T T brown did. I was wondering if showed it or not? > >Also has anybody ever conducted any test of 2 metal plates rotating either >relative or opposite to each other , set up in a vacum of course, & applied >(DC or AC of different freq). I was wondering what the results would be if >any. > >My Electronics Web Page >http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/ > >atom bomb test carried out first in India and then by Pakistan they are near china but not above it on the Indian Sub continent (Goeff)> > > Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me. Like to hear from You From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 05:09:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA10116; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 05:05:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 05:05:56 -0700 Message-ID: <35AB480F.8E2CFAB2@ctv.es> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:59:12 +0200 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga Reply-To: vramos@ctv.es X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" , "JNaudin509@aol.com" Subject: Possible test X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5OWt_3.0.vT2.Zcqgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5264 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Jean and all. Please, put the Newman machine inside a box. Then inject hot hair from a hair dryer. You can also try with a resistance of several watts inside the box, and watch the measurements changes. Vicente. -- Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga E-mail: vramos@ctv.es Home Page: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm Burriana (Castellon) SPAIN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 08:58:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA10203; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:54:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:54:55 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDAF0D.1F375EC0.stk@sunherald.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Biefield-Brown effect questions Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:52:32 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qn7pk1.0.FV2.-4tgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5265 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Anton Rager [SMTP:a_rager@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 1:02 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Biefield-Brown effect questions >Probably fly like the dickens.......Watch out though -- you might >become classified like TT Brown did ;) Visions of a self levitating craft with a seat in it no less! If I can get the voltage I need, and have the electrostatic generator be light enough...I might try building it. Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 10:32:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07721; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:28:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:28:29 -0700 From: BrianABQ@aol.com Message-ID: <74de72fd.35ab951d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:27:56 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Cloudbusting Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"s7wvS1.0.Zu1.zKvgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5266 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Another question: Is the water that comes out dangerous to living\non\living things? Can you drink it? (Not that a want to...) Do multiple wires work better? Thanks again -BrianABQ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 10:36:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27683; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:34:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:34:03 -0700 (PDT) From: BrianABQ@aol.com Message-ID: <30d08b7c.35ab9459@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:24:40 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Cloudbuster Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"8oktg3.0.Sm6.8Qvgr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5267 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I attempted a very crude experiment concerning cloud busting. It appeared to work but it may have been a coincidence (?) does anyone have a way for me to really test it? I had a friend watching and helping who thought it was to simple a concept to work. Can someone tell me a way to test it (Setup) and really be sure that it is really working and NOT a coincidence? Thanks. - BrianABQ PS: Any info further on Cloudbusting would be appreciated. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 11:26:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26270; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:22:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:22:09 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDAF2A.16C469A0.stk@sunherald.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Dielectric materials Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:19:52 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"E6ta02.0.6Q6.G7wgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5268 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: I need to find a cheap, flexible, high K dielectric of some kind to separate two plates that will be charged to greater than 300kV. What can I use? (preferably not a liquid) Thanks, Kyle R. Mcallister Email: stk@sunherald.infi.net Phone: 228-875-0629 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/5257 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 12:15:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16101; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:13:44 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:59:49 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Lab test results (Butch) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"0DrKe3.0.Rx3.atwgr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5269 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anton, Ed, Stefan, and all, I had a very good trip to lab in south Alabama. This is what we found out. 1. The flux after saturating the upper part of the ferite ring will not try to go into the air but take the path of less resistance which is the lower ferrite ring. I would like to confirm this on Anton's Quickfield if he can. 2. The flux will have to stay in the ring upper portion only, when the magnet is horizonal to make the device work. This means that the collapse of the field that takes place as the magnet rotates will have to do it's work in the ring and not outside of it. This means that a portion of the ring must serve as a stator core and a coil all in one. The best way I know to do this is to make myself or have custom made a wire that is"soft ferro-magnetic"(square iron or mild steel C-1018 ect., would be ideal) and is insulated as normal magnet wire is. A portion of the stator (upper left part of ring) will have to be made of this wire. It will then act as part of the stator ring and give a low resistance path for the flux, and at the same time act as a coil when the field is collapsing thru it. This is a way of putting a problem (eddy current loss) to work. The eddy currents will have a straight path from - to + now in the coil wire. This current will cause a flux that will try to maintain the collapsing field strength. This will be additional "pull" on the magnet rotor as it approaches vertical where it is drawn to by the ever smaller air gap at the top. I am putting together a drawing now to put on my web site to show the "soft ferro-magnetic wire coil/stator" position in the stator ring. Will post to list when it is uploaded. Heat will be a problem due to resistance of the wire, but I believe that it can be solved. The big problem now is the wire that does not seem to exist. I have called MWS wire and they said they could coat the wire if I supplied them with it. I will keep calling to see if anyone has any in stock (fat chance). Comments please Regards, Butch LaFonte Web site: http://members.aol.com/hlafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 12:15:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09723; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:13:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:13:19 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BDAE9C.5886C380.stk@sunherald.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:12:09 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: RE: Biefield-Brown effect questions Resent-Message-ID: <"0oaNr2.0.qN2.Etwgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5270 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle - > Mass...I hadn't considered that. By 'ferreting > out any effect', I assume you mean a > 'conventional' effect, correct? I mean unconventional (and also meant to type "mass density" before). Say you have pendulums fobs made of a material having a certain dielectric constant and all having equal surface area, but differing in density. While charged opposite that of a nearby electrode, and the heavier ones deflect more than expected for their mass relative to the lighter ones at the given voltage, then you've seen BB and it isn't conventional. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 12:22:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12311; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:19:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:19:44 -0700 Message-ID: <35ABADD0.B4A4C75@ctv.es> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:13:21 +0200 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga Reply-To: vramos@ctv.es X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Dielectric materials X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <01BDAF2A.16C469A0.stk@sunherald.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dgLbb2.0.g_2.Fzwgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5271 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > All: > > I need to find a cheap, flexible, high K dielectric of some kind to > separate two plates that will be charged to greater than 300kV. What > can I > use? (preferably not a liquid) > > Thanks, > Kyle R. Mcallister > Email: stk@sunherald.infi.net > Phone: 228-875-0629 > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/5257 Hi all, You can try HV silicone, used in industrial world. But I don't know the isolation factor. Vicente. -- Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga E-mail: vramos@ctv.es Home Page: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm Burriana (Castellon) SPAIN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 12:40:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18339; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:33:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:33:44 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <30d08b7c.35ab9459@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:32:37 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Cloudbuster Resent-Message-ID: <"cxWhL1.0.MU4.NAxgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5272 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Brian - Do some runs with the cloudbuster and mark the percentage of times you have success or failure. Then do some runs where you try to cut lines in clouds by pointing a pencil at them and concentrating. If the results are close to one another then the cloudbuster's apparent effect is only coincidence. Unfortunately this experiment might leave you permanently wondering if you're not actually psychokinetically endowed. On the other hand, if you find you can write your name in the clouds with your pencil: post video! I find that I can part and dissipate clouds of cigarette smoke that drift near me in a bar or restaurant if I concentrate on them just right. It's weird - seems to work pretty reliably, but I suspect it's just coincidence. Might be body electricity or something if it's actually happening. The notion comes from some guru/adept/eastern thing from somewhere; supposedly it is a very easy thing to learn and master. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI "The voices have been very quiescent lately, and I feel I'm making real progress towards my eventual return to society. I realize some people may not share that view, but I think they can be persuaded. I know where they live." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 12:44:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20321; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:39:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:39:37 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BDAF2A.16C469A0.stk@sunherald.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:38:31 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Dielectric materials Resent-Message-ID: <"hDVOI3.0.Rz4.uFxgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5273 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle - The cheapest decent dielectric for large HV cap work is polyethylene sheet. Next is polyester, but I think besides only a slight gain in dielectric constant is better response at high frequency (?), but it's quite a bit more expensive than polyethylene. Use poly sheet. Glass is good too, but it's expensive and fragile. Polyester resins like surfboard resin and also epoxy resins are also good dielectrics and of course are great for casting or laminating up to some particular shape like, say, a sort of hemispherical or "saucer" shape. ;) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 13:33:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08391; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:25:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:25:52 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDAF3B.5E4EDD80.stk@sunherald.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Dielectric materials Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:23:34 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lOsh13.0.u22.Fxxgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5274 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Rick Monteverde [SMTP:monteverde@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 2:39 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Dielectric materials >Polyester resins like surfboard resin and also >epoxy resins are also good dielectrics and of course are great for casting >or laminating up to some particular shape like, say, a sort of >hemispherical or "saucer" shape. ;) A spy, eh? :-) Actually, I am building it in a hemispherical shape. I just happen to have an old 7 foot diameter satellite dish out in the shop that might make a fair Biefield-Brown effect levitator. Of course, I won't build something that severe until I test the effect out on a small, scale model. Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 14:07:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22512; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:02:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:02:14 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807142102.OAA07250@pop4.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq@peseta.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: Re: Lab test results (Butch) Cc: dequickert@ucdavis.edu Resent-Message-ID: <"iobP43.0.RV5.LTygr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5275 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >The big problem now is the wire >that does not seem to exist. Butch, try: California Fine Wire Company (805)489-5352 PO Box 446 Grover City, CA 93433 They sell wire of many materials. I have an (old) catalog list of theirs; will try to look it up when I get home, and see what they have in the way of steel/iron wire. Dan Quickert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 14:37:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00259; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:33:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:33:32 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:30:46 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re:Re: Lab test results (Butch) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZhuGK3.0.x3.iwygr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5276 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-14 17:07:00 EDT, you write: << Butch, try: California Fine Wire Company (805)489-5352 PO Box 446 Grover City, CA 93433 >> Dan, Thanks for the help. This could be a first! (steel magnet wire) Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 14:44:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03390; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:41:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:41:00 -0700 Message-ID: <35ABCFCD.CCD56047@harti.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:38:21 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "HLafonte@aol.com" Subject: Re: magnetic steel wire for building the coil References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qwOln1.0.sq.h1zgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5277 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-14 17:07:00 EDT, you write: > > << Butch, try: > > California Fine Wire Company > (805)489-5352 > PO Box 446 > Grover City, CA 93433 > >> > Dan, > Thanks for the help. This could be a first! (steel magnet wire) > Butch LaFonte Butch, your idea with the magnetic steel wire for building the coil is very interesting ! I guess, one can build really better OU motors with this idea due to using the generated flux in special ways for helping to get the Lenz law violated ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 15:40:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18210; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:35:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:35:48 -0700 Message-ID: <19980714200425.24954.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:04:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: Cloudbuster To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"2WvD-2.0.NS4.3rzgr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5278 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick, Any chance Brian might be talking about one of those Orgone cloudbuster devices instead of direct PK influence? Guess the two could be related, but I seem to remember one of the group was working an orgone buster....... If this is direct PK influence, then fill us in on your methods Brian. Have to try the PK smoke trick. Perhaps we can compile a list of those who are/aren't PK challenged, and make sure the endowed ones are nearby when testing magnetic motors ;) My designs need all the help they can get! PS -- I say 'yes' to the new sig. ---Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Brian - > > Do some runs with the cloudbuster and mark the percentage of times you have > success or failure. Then do some runs where you try to cut lines in clouds > by pointing a pencil at them and concentrating. If the results are close to > one another then the cloudbuster's apparent effect is only coincidence. > > Unfortunately this experiment might leave you permanently wondering if > you're not actually psychokinetically endowed. On the other hand, if you > find you can write your name in the clouds with your pencil: post video! > > I find that I can part and dissipate clouds of cigarette smoke that drift > near me in a bar or restaurant if I concentrate on them just right. It's > weird - seems to work pretty reliably, but I suspect it's just coincidence. > Might be body electricity or something if it's actually happening. The > notion comes from some guru/adept/eastern thing from somewhere; supposedly > it is a very easy thing to learn and master. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > > > "The voices have been very quiescent lately, and I feel > I'm making real progress towards my eventual return to > society. I realize some people may not share that view, > but I think they can be persuaded. I know where they live." > > > == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 17:20:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11230; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:12:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:12:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980714191233.140f2c74@tsrcom.com> X-Sender: jameshartman@tsrcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: James Hartman Subject: Re: Dielectric materials Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:13:28 -0500 Resent-Message-ID: <"az_ps.0.Ml2.MF_gr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5279 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:19 PM 7/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >All: > >I need to find a cheap, flexible, high K dielectric of some kind to >separate two plates that will be charged to greater than 300kV. What can I >use? (preferably not a liquid) > >Thanks, >Kyle R. Mcallister >Email: stk@sunherald.infi.net >Phone: 228-875-0629 >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/5257 Kyle, For some interesting dielectric effects I suggest you lookin into GEOMETRIC CAPACITANCE also. In a vacuum (if you can get one.) the capactance is also determined by its geometrical shape. I myself am looking for a way to form dielectrics in the form of English CROP Formations. I guess I'm being vane, But, I coined it "HARTMAN'S GEODIAELECTRIC EFFECT". You'll find shapes will reduce power requirements in theory. Unless I myself find a source. Perhaps you. I'm unable to advance this idea. JUST A THOUGHT, ---James Hartman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 14 17:26:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16303; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:21:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:21:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199807150021.UAA19834@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Over unity paradox. Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:23:46 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HE-dn1.0.K-3.3O_gr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5280 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The electric amd magnetic fields in resonance occupy space. Has anyone ever considered to engineer a situation where they could share the same space at right angles? I wish to create a water elctrolysis using these ideas of "spatial harnessing" of resonance. Normally resonant circuits have fields that occupy separate space and also separate times because the energy osscillates between kinetic magnetic form and potential electric which is stored energy. In the resonant circuit at point the electric field is maximum there is zero energy draw.With a single phase spatially interacting with itself .707 of an expandingmagnetic field could react with .707of an electric field collapsing yielding one unitout by lorentz interaction. So in this situation we might agree that one joule stored in the fields might yield one joule out by lorentz interaction neglecting losses. The paradox that this opens is that if one now uses two phases of resonance at 90 degrees phase angle(from a specially built generator) and allow the respective electric fields from each phase to share the same space at rt. angles with the OPPOSITE phases magnetic field, then the lorentz interaction should allow a FULL magnetic field to react with a FULL electric field instead of .707 as in the previous ex. The reaction should contain more energy than exists in either field alone. And the phase supplying the electric field is instantaneously drawing zero energy. In this scheme of things there are two inputs and two lorentz outputs. But the way I analyze it the outputs should exceed the inputs. Most importantly the second outputs wouldnt oscillate but occur as a DC pulse. Can someone show me the error in my thinking if it does exist? Sincerly; Harvey D. Norris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 15 03:58:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA12896; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 03:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 03:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:45:51 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199807151045.MAA23592@imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin@mail.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Re: PLEASE Help Me With Problem - BrianABQ Resent-Message-ID: <"AD5va2.0.Q93.2i8hr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5281 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Brian, Richard & all Richard Wood wrote : > I was on the Rife list for awhile an if I remember right one of the side > effects of using the Rife beam was that it killed bugs. Not quite true. Some intensive users of Rife electrotherapy devices (plasma tube models) noticed the cockroaches had left their premises, but did not find any dead bugs. Presumably the bugs were annoyed by the EM fields and moved somewhere else. Nevertheless, a 2000 $ therapy device as a bug repellent seems a bit expensive. A cheaper alternative would be the "Pest Free" device, invented in USA, 1978. The 1995 Australian version was discussed on the Rife-list at the same epoch. The device costs 80 $, runs on 7 watts, and it pulse modulates the background EM field caused by the electrical wiring in the house. Seems to work well for repelling cockroaches and other pests, but, contrary to the manufacturers' claim, it's not quite harmless on humans. People sensitive to "EM pollution" have reported loss of sleep and stress feelings when the device is on... I saved a long Australian magazine article about it, can mail it to anyone interested. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 15 11:53:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07813; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:50:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:50:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199807151743.NAA00076@surfergirl.spacey.net> Reply-To: From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Re: Re : Re: A COOLING effect has been observed. Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:40:27 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DA3nF3.0.wv1.OdFhr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5282 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lets not get carried away with ourselves.... I believe that I can help to clarify one of the current 'mysteries' that everyone is getting so worked up over. The cooling effect in Newmanesque dynamos, and in solid state high frequency zeroue devices is neither unusual nor does it require that 'reverse entropy' be invoked to explain it. It is not evidence of overunity performance, nor does it provide support for the theory of vacuum energy. The aether/vacuum/virtual particle flux/quantum state/dirac sea is not involved in this cooling process in any way, whatsoever. The cooling effect IS real, it most definately does occur, and it should surprise no one. In fact, we should find it more unusual if there were NOT a persistent refrigeration effect taking place in these devices. It is a phenomenon known as 'adiabatic paramagnetic demagnetization', and has been recognized for many years to occur when strong magentic fields are rapidly and repeatedly removed from certain conductive materials. It is known to be approximately as efficient as traditional mechanical refrigeration, when you take all of the system costs into account, but it is very energy intensive. Pulsed magnetic fields tend to dampen out the random molecular motion, thereby essentially eliminating heat; the heat doesn't go anywhere, it just stops. The process is not unlike nuclear magentic resonance used in medical Magnetic Resonance Imaging ("MRI") scans, where the magnetic moment of all of the atoms are suddenly aligned for a single instant by a strong outside magetic field; in APD refrigeration, the alignment is made to occur again and again, and this slowly overcomes the random molecular vibration that is heat. Its like putting your hand on a bell that has just been struck, and damping out the sound. Many industrial and scientific products are already on the market using adiabatic paramagnetic demagnetization to produce extremely cold temperatures. All of the record cold temperatures achieved in the last 20 years were obtained by this method, and nothing approaching absolute zero has ever been produced by any other means. This is also the only way that helium can be liquified. Laboratories around the world have deep cryo refrigeration units based on the technology, and they are now available off-the-shelf out of catalogues. In addition, the technology is being applied to the problem of cooling electronics enclosures where dense circuit boards radiate too much heat for simple air circulation via muffin fans to control. There is at least one IC out now which is a complete, compact, APD refrigerator on a single chip, sold under the trade name "Frigi-Chip"; you build it onto your printed circuit board along with the other discrete components, and it simply eats up the heat that the others throw off. Its pretty neat when you think about it....but it doesn't violate the superstitions of thermodynamics because it does require energy to eliminate the heat. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 15 11:57:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28707; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006701bdafad$548be820$6a298e8b@plassy> From: "Plasmatic" To: Subject: Re: Cloudbuster Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:59:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"wccO_3.0.R07._hFhr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5283 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'm not familiar with "cloudbusting", though it sounds very interesting to me. Can you explain this, or is here somewhere I can go to find out about it? Thanks :) -----Original Message----- From: BrianABQ@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 11:43 AM Subject: Cloudbuster >I attempted a very crude experiment concerning cloud busting. It appeared to >work but it may have been a coincidence (?) does anyone have a way for me to >really test it? I had a friend watching and helping who thought it was to >simple a concept to work. Can someone tell me a way to test it (Setup) and >really be sure that it is really working and NOT a coincidence? Thanks. > >- BrianABQ > >PS: Any info further on Cloudbusting would be appreciated. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 15 13:10:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11729; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Old-X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: <35AD0733.DEC94DC8@ctv.es> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:47:00 +0200 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga Reply-To: vramos@ctv.es X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cloudbuster X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <006701bdafad$548be820$6a298e8b@plassy> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BNzGy3.0.4t2.NgGhr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5284 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Plasmatic wrote: > I'm not familiar with "cloudbusting", though it sounds very > interesting to > me. Can you explain this, or is here somewhere I can go to find out > about > it? Thanks :) > -----Original Message----- > From: BrianABQ@aol.com > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 11:43 AM > Subject: Cloudbuster > > >I attempted a very crude experiment concerning cloud busting. It > appeared > to > >work but it may have been a coincidence (?) does anyone have a way > for me > to > >really test it? I had a friend watching and helping who thought it > was to > >simple a concept to work. Can someone tell me a way to test it > (Setup) and > >really be sure that it is really working and NOT a coincidence? > Thanks. > > > >- BrianABQ > > > >PS: Any info further on Cloudbusting would be appreciated. > > see my page -- Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga E-mail: vramos@ctv.es Home Page: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm Burriana (Castellon) SPAIN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 15 15:02:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00311; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:59:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:59:06 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980715215801.006adb04@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:58:01 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: RE: Dielectric materials Resent-Message-ID: <"7Spjp.0.i4.fOIhr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5285 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:23 PM 7/14/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Rick Monteverde [SMTP:monteverde@worldnet.att.net] >Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 2:39 PM >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Dielectric materials > > >A spy, eh? :-) Actually, I am building it in a hemispherical shape. I just >happen to have an old 7 foot diameter satellite dish out in the shop that >might make a fair Biefield-Brown effect levitator. Of course, I won't build >something that severe until I test the effect out on a small, scale model. > >Kyle R. Mcallister > Don't be a wimp go for the big one. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 15 19:43:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14060; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807160227.WAA25663@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: RE; dwenbert APD Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:37:35 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pcYNv1.0.cR3.MRMhr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5286 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Excellent info sir: this is certainly grist for the mill. Was wondering when I might find an intelligent response to a question. Always wondered about MRI technology. Dont know about Newmanesqe referance. Am working with Newman size coils in O.U. paradox previously sent. I have difficulty presenting idea because of language problems. Lorentz reaction has nothing to do with transformation in mathematics but only classical physics when an electric field exists at rt. angles to magnetic field a free charge has force exerted at right angles to both causitive fields. Too much language makes a simple 3-dimensional concept obscured, this is same as motor - generator principle observed in nature. My prognosis is to apply the situation to a dielectric such as water. First of all an electric field will elongate the water molecule. As such free charge separation occurs in space. If the electric field is high frequency a 3-d rotation of dipole occurs.A further introspection of the rotation reveals that it can also rotate in what is referred as to as 360 degrees of freedom within a 2-d plane. That means two spins might be viewed as going in opposition from the vantage point of view looking at a right angle to the electric field. If a magnetic field exists in concert or phase with that electric field at right angles then the magnetic field will exert a moment to cohere all the spins in one direction facing it. This cohered field action could serve to create a spin within a spin in three dimensions which has been mentioned as ZPE theories. Now is where the cooling effect comes into discussion. The first thing us lads were taught in physics is that linear momentum can be converted to angular momentum. This was shown as equal wt. cylinders differing in vel. on inclined plane where one cylinder is hollow. Now if we apply this idea to the translational bombardment of molec. in 3-d space in prescence of cohered E-M fields one might speculate a loss of temperature in medium. I never even got my physics degree but I would appreciate your opinion on this matter, dwenbert. Sincerly, H.D.N. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 15 22:49:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04120; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:47:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:47:57 -0700 Message-ID: <002c01bdb07d$636b0300$6e298e8b@plassy> From: "Plasmatic" To: Subject: Direct PK (was "Re: Cloudbuster") Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:48:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"j4_oV1.0.I01.DGPhr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5287 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Interesting with the PK there. That's something I've been interested in for many years. I like Anton's idea of compiling a list of PK's on here. I'm trying to find out everything about REAL LIFE PK! Not just "theories" about what SHOULD work. I've seen too many voodoo things on the 'net when looking into this. I have found somethings to be very effective, though I haven't had a good try at it. Yes, this sounds dumb, but I once looked into Chinese "Psi-Balls". It took a while, but I managed after awhile that I could actually make and use them! I couldn't see them, but I could feel them (kind of a tingling) and could pass them from hand to hand. Couldn't juggle though :) A good friend of mine actually practises "focused energy healing" as a career. Though I can't say my word is worth more than anyone else's, but it seriously works! It was her alternative to deep massage therapy. I have schematics for a PK Tester in a copy of Electronics Now that I just happen to have kicking around. If I had a scanner I could get you a copy, but I'm afraid I can only find the issue information for you. It works by supplying random numbers. It was originally collected from Radium I believe, but that's kinda dangerous, so instead they amplify noise from a reverse-biased transistor. It should provide VERY random data to work with (noise amplifyed, introducing even more noise :). What it does is count how many of on and off come up in a row. There are LED's lined in an almost complete circle. It normally stays in the very bottom middle if you have it calibrated properly, but with direct PK, you should be able to push it left or right, by causing either more on's or more off's. Seems like a fairly simple, easy experiment. Know of any other tests or methods? I've even tried some Alpha state relaxation suggestion techniques with good results. Though it's not like the guys you see up on stage :) This is more "suggestion" than "command" (something that is frowned upon in the psych community). I'd love to find some other info on Psych or PK or anything of that sort though, so please let me know. I even have one REALLY excellent link! It's where I got "psi balls" and many others from, and it's VERY reliable, though maybe a little slow :) Thanks, and sorry that this is kinda off-topic. Know of any psych lists? PS #1- I like the new sig Anton, very funny };) PS #2- If you think I'm a freak for believing in "psychic" abilites, explain how good friends can read each others minds? My and my friend can constantly finish each others sentences, to the very word! We counted, in one day we did it over 30 times! No, that is true. As well, have you ever felt you could influence something? Or you just had a "gut feeling"? Well that "gut feeling" (Intuition is the scientific name) is the basic tool for psych stuff. If you get alot of "feelings", then you probably have a bit more psych ability, not that anyone doesn't. Most do, just they don't know how to use it. This is something I can help you with ;) -----Original Message----- From: Rick Monteverde To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 12:34 PM Subject: Re: Cloudbuster >Brian - > >Do some runs with the cloudbuster and mark the percentage of times you have >success or failure. Then do some runs where you try to cut lines in clouds >by pointing a pencil at them and concentrating. If the results are close to >one another then the cloudbuster's apparent effect is only coincidence. > >Unfortunately this experiment might leave you permanently wondering if >you're not actually psychokinetically endowed. On the other hand, if you >find you can write your name in the clouds with your pencil: post video! > >I find that I can part and dissipate clouds of cigarette smoke that drift >near me in a bar or restaurant if I concentrate on them just right. It's >weird - seems to work pretty reliably, but I suspect it's just coincidence. >Might be body electricity or something if it's actually happening. The >notion comes from some guru/adept/eastern thing from somewhere; supposedly >it is a very easy thing to learn and master. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > >"The voices have been very quiescent lately, and I feel >I'm making real progress towards my eventual return to >society. I realize some people may not share that view, >but I think they can be persuaded. I know where they live." > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 16 01:17:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA29013; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009601bdb08f$3d422980$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: , Subject: Re: COOLING DEVICE Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:38:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"IxsWM3.0.E57.DQRhr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5288 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi In a recent New Scientist issue they demonstated a 50mm square device that provided enough cooling for a large refrigerator that was very efficient. It used (I forget exactly) two semiconductors seperated by a very small gap. By applying an electrical charge, electrons jump the gap, thereby transfering energy from one side of the device to the other. This sounded like the Peltier effect to me, but no mention of Peltier was made. Regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Tremblay To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday 14 July 1998 01:50 Subject: COOLING DEVICE >Hi, > >How could we build a SOLID STATE cooling apparaturs that would employ >coils and/or resistors and/or capacitors to extract heat from a room, >convert it in electricity and then conduct it via electric wires and >then reject it with resistors loads or store it in a battery ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 16 01:43:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA01307; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:40:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:40:48 -0700 Message-ID: <35ADBB54.B0E846F8@datacomm.ch> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:35:32 +0200 From: Felix Meyer Reply-To: hb9abx@datacomm.ch Organization: hb9abx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tesla US Patent 512,340 References: <199807060519.BAA12294@centi.mks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sSaDS3.0.LK.GoRhr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5289 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred Walter wrote: > > A few days ago someone asked for Tesla's US Patent 512,340. > > I scanned it in and was going to put it up on my web-site, but my friend's > computer (which hosts my web-site) seems to be down. ... ... Dear Fred, I am very interested in this Patent and would like to see the corresponding diagrams. Maybe I missed them on the free-nrg-List ? Do you know where I can find then on the Internet or would it be possible that you email them to me or to the free-nrg-L ? Many thanks Felix Meyer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 16 05:55:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA23606; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:54:07 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: COOLING DEVICE Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:46:39 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35b0f60c.21840800@mail-hub> References: <009601bdb08f$3d422980$96d2989e@david-callaghan> In-Reply-To: <009601bdb08f$3d422980$96d2989e@david-callaghan> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hyfru.0.mm5.jVVhr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5290 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:38:45 +0100, David Callaghan wrote: >Hi > >In a recent New Scientist issue they demonstated a 50mm square >device that provided enough cooling for a large refrigerator that >was very efficient. It used (I forget exactly) two semiconductors It was invented by http://www.borealis.com/ [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 16 12:12:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19164; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:08:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:08:28 -0700 Message-ID: <19980716190651.16850.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:06:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: Direct PK (was "Re: Cloudbuster") To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"_Nvcy.0.4h4.h-ahr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5291 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My comments were actually meant to be sarcastic. I think lots of people have perceptions/experiances that fall outside of the 'consensus reality'. Most folks don't want to publicize them for fear of the reaction from the 'consensus reality'. I have been one of them. With that said, I think compiling a list could be difficult. I have also decided to publicize my own wierd perceptions, so add them to your list if you like. ---------------------------------------------------- Anton's Wierd Adventures: None of this is PK -- but I think it might be related. Warning -- all of this is completely subjective, and un-scientific....and if doesn't match your 'model of reality' you will probably discard it as bullshit. This all started this winter. While hiking in the mountains this winter I noticed that I could feel 'heat/electrostatic' interactions between my gloved fingers [1/2 inch air gap]. Could even feel it with my eyes closed. Have been playing with this since. Have been able to sometimes detect this same feeling over pyramid/faceted shaped rocks and over muscles while massaging [works with bare hands as well as with gloves]. Seems that painful muscle areas are where the 'feeling' above the skin is weaker. Perhaps some of us have 'built-in' orgone/aether/electrostatic detectors? I'm at loss for explanations, but the effect is intriguing. Around the same time I did some limited telepathy testing with my wife. Not sure why, but one evening while reading I got the idea that maybe telepathy was some form of modulating or resonating. I told her that I was going to try to induce a 'sensation' in her mind......I wanted her to tell me what sensations she felt. I then created a resonating effect [hard to describe...but I kinda made my brain pulse] in my mind, and tried to imagine the same thing happening in her head. With my eyes closed, the effect started off real weak in my head, and increased by itself over a period of a several seconds. The effect suddently reduced back to almost nil...I then opened my eyes, and my wife was already stating back. Turns out that she described a very similar feeling [the brain pulsing], and had opened her eyes slightly before me. Guess that's when the 'feedback loop' amplification ended for me. I was somewhat excited that she had felt a similar effect, and tried it a few more times....she didn't particularly like the pulsing feeling, so the testing stopped. Funny thing is, we both kept getting the pusling feeling thru-out that evening -- even though neither of us were still trying to create the effect. Several evenings later, I decided that if 'remote resonating' kinda worked, that perhaps real telepathy actually might. Got her to agree to be a 'thought reciever' and I would try to send her some thoughts/images. We tried three tests with me sending, and all three were sucessful. Problem is -- she was unable to differentiate between her thoughts, and the ones I sent to her...but some of the imagery/thoughts I sent were interlaced into her stream of consciousness. We also tried the opposite - me reciever, her transmitter. None of my thoughts or imagery even came close to what she was trying to send. Bottom line : She's a good reciever, and I'm a good sender. We haven't tried this again, but I am quite sure that lots of us do this on an un-conscious level. Heard of visualization? I think it's actually a way of projecting your thoughts/desires to others, and getting them to help you with your goals. Sometimes they respond, sometimes they don't. Aside from some vivid RV/psycic dreams, these are the perceptions and experiances I've had that seem relevant and perhaps related to PK. There! I said it. Judge me as you must. Your turn! ;) == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 16 13:02:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02273; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:58:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:58:19 -0700 From: BrianABQ@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:57:46 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Cloudbuster Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"uyQ-P2.0.KZ.Rjbhr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5292 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I tried the pencil method and percentage rate was the same. I only did three tests on each and 2 times it worked for each. Psychokinetic power probably exists but only is not powerful enough to dissipate clouds so my experiment must have been concluded positively by coinincidence. Does anyone have a proved way of building a cloudbuster and an experiment? The best way to test for PK is to concentrate and reach out and try to feel clouds. That's what "phycics" claim that they do. It doesn't really work...for me, at least. -BrianABQ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 16 13:04:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02696; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:00:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:00:07 -0700 From: BrianABQ@aol.com Message-ID: <4a250fae.35ae5bad@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:59:40 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Cloudbuster Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"bO4lE.0.1g.7lbhr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5293 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 7/15/98 12:54:28 PM Mountain Daylight Time, plas@dlcwest.com writes: << I'm not familiar with "cloudbusting", though it sounds very interesting to me. Can you explain this, or is here somewhere I can go to find out about it? Thanks :) >> I'm not very familar with it either, thats probably why mine didn't work... -BrianABQ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 16 13:10:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05089; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:06:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:06:06 -0700 From: BrianABQ@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:05:47 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Direct PK (was "Re: Cloudbuster") Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"JlZK7.0.MF1.kqbhr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5294 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Can you send me that link? I am also very interested in PK. I've been watching this show all week called Science of the Impossible. It's on discovery channel. Last night's was about PK and other invisible forces. Lots of Free Energy related stuff... Can you help me do and find out about this kind of stuff? Thanx -BrianABQ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 16 13:19:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08733; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:14:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:14:54 -0700 From: BrianABQ@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:11:47 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: PLEASE Help Me With Problem - BrianABQ Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"tMuZP3.0.M82.zybhr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5295 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I turned on the radio to a station called the Peak (100.3) and the bugs went away. Theories? Is it the frequency? Try it. -BrianABQ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 16 14:06:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20932; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:00:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:00:46 -0700 Message-ID: <19980716205951.29857.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:59:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: Cloudbuster To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"vC0B31.0.y65.ydchr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5296 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My apologies Rick -- it appears that my reading is getting a bit careless lately. I mis-read you and thought you were talking about cloudbusting ala Robin Williams in "Fisher King". Am in the process of purchasing a house, so am a bit rushed/frazzled lately! Later ---Anton Rager wrote: > > Rick, > > Any chance Brian might be talking about one of those Orgone > cloudbuster devices instead of direct PK influence? Guess the two > could be related, but I seem to remember one of the group was working > an orgone buster....... If this is direct PK influence, then fill us > in on your methods Brian. > > Have to try the PK smoke trick. Perhaps we can compile a list of > those who are/aren't PK challenged, and make sure the endowed ones are > nearby when testing magnetic motors ;) My designs need all the help > they can get! > > > PS -- I say 'yes' to the new sig. > > ---Rick Monteverde wrote: > > > > Brian - > > > > Do some runs with the cloudbuster and mark the percentage of times > you have > > success or failure. Then do some runs where you try to cut lines in > clouds > > by pointing a pencil at them and concentrating. If the results are > close to > > one another then the cloudbuster's apparent effect is only > coincidence. > > > > Unfortunately this experiment might leave you permanently wondering if > > you're not actually psychokinetically endowed. On the other hand, if > you > > find you can write your name in the clouds with your pencil: post > video! > > > > I find that I can part and dissipate clouds of cigarette smoke that > drift > > near me in a bar or restaurant if I concentrate on them just right. > It's > > weird - seems to work pretty reliably, but I suspect it's just > coincidence. > > Might be body electricity or something if it's actually happening. The > > notion comes from some guru/adept/eastern thing from somewhere; > supposedly > > it is a very easy thing to learn and master. > > > > - Rick Monteverde > > Honolulu, HI > > == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 16 17:29:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27137; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35AE9824.F5A2A829@harti.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 02:17:40 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: Coming up: The Gravitational Converter, a selfrunner ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"peAtf2.0.td6.Pgfhr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5298 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Better than Besslerīs Wheels ! Works as a selfrunner. Can be scaled up to MegaWatts ! Uses "integral gears" and hydrostatic paradoxon to produce energy amplification and converting gravitation energy to FREE mechanical rotation energy ! Have you ever played around with an integral gear ? It works like a energy multiplier, the same force over a double as long distance means doubling the output energy... Dieter Bauer is preparing the article. Stay tuned ! It will be a hot August this summer , professors scratching their heads...they will not understand, why they have teached it wrong for all these years.... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 16 17:27:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08432; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:23:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:23:42 -0700 Message-ID: <003701bdb119$424ec840$66298e8b@plassy> From: "Plasmatic" To: Subject: Re: Direct PK (was "Re: Cloudbuster") Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:24:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"xt_6c2.0.g32.Dcfhr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5297 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, actually, I will judge you as being very honest and, hell, even making sense. I will explain each one as your message goes along: >---------------------------------------------------- >Anton's Wierd Adventures: > >None of this is PK -- but I think it might be related. Warning -- all >of this is completely subjective, and un-scientific....and if doesn't >match your 'model of reality' you will probably discard it as bullshit. > >This all started this winter. While hiking in the mountains this >winter I noticed that I could feel 'heat/electrostatic' interactions >between my gloved fingers [1/2 inch air gap]. Could even feel it with >my eyes closed. Have been playing with this since. Have been able to >sometimes detect this same feeling over pyramid/faceted shaped rocks >and over muscles while massaging [works with bare hands as well as >with gloves]. Seems that painful muscle areas are where the 'feeling' >above the skin is weaker. Perhaps some of us have 'built-in' >orgone/aether/electrostatic detectors? I'm at loss for explanations, >but the effect is intriguing. This is how "chinese healing" works alot of the time. Most methods use "energy" (known as Chi to many chinese people) concentrated on painful areas. This is what my friend does for a living. She tried it on me, and is it ever strange. In fact, when she first started learning how, though a course on it (it's actually a practised method), the guy she was trying it on jumped in shock when she first put her hands near him. Kinda funny, eh? > >Around the same time I did some limited telepathy testing with my >wife. Not sure why, but one evening while reading I got the idea that >maybe telepathy was some form of modulating or resonating. I told her >that I was going to try to induce a 'sensation' in her mind......I >wanted her to tell me what sensations she felt. I then created a >resonating effect [hard to describe...but I kinda made my brain pulse] >in my mind, and tried to imagine the same thing happening in her head. > With my eyes closed, the effect started off real weak in my head, and >increased by itself over a period of a several seconds. The effect >suddently reduced back to almost nil...I then opened my eyes, and my >wife was already stating back. Turns out that she described a very >similar feeling [the brain pulsing], and had opened her eyes slightly >before me. Guess that's when the 'feedback loop' amplification ended >for me. I was somewhat excited that she had felt a similar effect, >and tried it a few more times....she didn't particularly like the >pulsing feeling, so the testing stopped. Funny thing is, we both kept >getting the pusling feeling thru-out that evening -- even though >neither of us were still trying to create the effect. This is how telepathy can be done at home, for those who don't already know how. Imagination is key, as you will see from what you have to do. First, a setting. Imagine you are directly infront of your "partner". You must be totally relaxed, and the partner is usually more open to suggestion when doing something brainless like watching TV. If they are cooking dinner, they wouldn't notice if you whacked them with a hammer :) Now, opening a connection. Imagine, in your mind, a thought, a picture, or a sound. The mind works in pictures, so if you think of an elephant, or even the word elephant, you will also think of a picture of an elephant. Now you must concentrate hard on this and imagine it working its way on over. DON'T FORCE THIS! Let your mind drift, and you may see the speed at which it moves varying, though this will only be after you have practised alot. This can tell you when they finally get the idea :) Now, you must realize something. This transfers a thought to the other person, in the most general sense. This does not mean the person gets a big word ballon in there head saying "(So-and-So) is thinking of an elephant!". Instead, the thought passes through there head, just like the millions of others you have every second. The trick is that a few of those thoughts are concentrated on in your mind. When you are driving along and you remember something, it is because that thought was in the "back of your mind", and your brain finally figured to think about it for a second. So, just because the other person gets it, doesn't mean they will even notice. It may just go straight though there brain, since they weren't concentrating on that though, but a different one. This is why if you tell a partner about it, they will most likely not get it, because they were concentrating on getting it, rather than the actual thought itself. If you want to concentrate on ANYTHING, it's staying calm, relaxed, and clear minded. If you think of black, and think of the first thing that comes to mind, that will probably be a thought that was barried somewhere, very likely the one they were thinking of. And no, this is not a science, and you don' have to say your name three times and your astrological sign ;P > >Several evenings later, I decided that if 'remote resonating' kinda >worked, that perhaps real telepathy actually might. Got her to agree >to be a 'thought reciever' and I would try to send her some >thoughts/images. We tried three tests with me sending, and all three >were sucessful. Problem is -- she was unable to differentiate between >her thoughts, and the ones I sent to her...but some of the >imagery/thoughts I sent were interlaced into her stream of >consciousness. We also tried the opposite - me reciever, her >transmitter. None of my thoughts or imagery even came close to what >she was trying to send. Bottom line : She's a good reciever, and I'm >a good sender. We haven't tried this again, but I am quite sure that >lots of us do this on an un-conscious level. Heard of visualization? >I think it's actually a way of projecting your thoughts/desires to >others, and getting them to help you with your goals. Sometimes they >respond, sometimes they don't. This is EXACTLY what I just explained, which is why I totally believe you, and that it happened. The thought that you project, comes through like any other thought in her mind, and you can't distinguish the two, because she actually did think of it. Trying doing this one. Say you are out of catfood. You have mentioned it, but your partner has forgotten. Try this, think of catfood in the same way as I described above. It may take a while at first, but if all goes well, they should turn around and say, "oh yeah, remember to pick up some catfood". There is how you know that it worked. They can't even tell the difference. They think they just remembered, but they didn't, you actually had them think of it :) Visualization works in the same way. A picture is worth a thousand words, a wise man once said, and it is. Could you describe snow to someone in Jamaica, if they had never seen it? Of course not. Try as you would, you couldn't. But, show them a picture of two, and they will understand alot about it. So, why not show someone a picture of what you are thinking of? Because almost no one, other than the most talented artists, can draw as good as they think. Anyone can see an AWSOME picture of a rabbit in there mind, lifelike, even moving. That is how our imagination and dreams work. We can imagine, and even remember, photographic quality pictures. But could you ever draw your Cousin Henry EXACTLY the same as a photograph? Ha, YA RIGHT! Which is where visualization comes into play. Imagine it as you are explaining it, and the person will be more liekly to get it, because they are trying to imagine it, and you just happen to slip in a full blown picture of it. Much better than you could do in an hour with a pen and paper now isn't it :) That can be tried for almost ANYTHING, by thinking of a picture of a person while trying to describe them as having "big, blue eyes", you will have alot better chances of knowing who the hell out of the 40 some odd people in the room which "big, blue eyes" is the one they are thinking of :) > >Aside from some vivid RV/psycic dreams, these are the perceptions and >experiances I've had that seem relevant and perhaps related to PK. > >There! I said it. Judge me as you must. Your turn! ;) > > >== >Anton Rager Is it my turn already? Okay, good, cause I have another good one for you. About 4 years ago, my parents split up. This friend of mine, the one taking this weird classes (well, weird to most people) hasn't talken to her in about 5 years, though they still know eachothers phone numbers and such. Well, 3 days after they broke up, her friend called and asked "what was wrong". It was 11PM her time "in San Fransico" and my mom was amazed. But, she explained the whole thing as if she alreayd know what she was talking about. Hadn't spoken for 5 years and she knew that something bad enough happened that she had to phone is a coincidence, I doubt it... As for personal experience, I have tried alot of this out myself. Now, this is probably the dumbest thing you have ever heard, but it is true, and proves what I say about thinking in pictures. This is what happens when wires get crossed in PK. I had my sister, 9 at the time, do that same thing as you did with your wife, however, rather than having her feel something (a VERY EXCELLENT idea, as feelings don't come often, and are very noticable), I had her try and tell me what I was thinking. At the time I knew it happened, and I knew happened to me ALOT, but I didn't QUITE know all the tricks, or even understand it back then. So, I thought of my favorite musical group, The Rolling Stones. Well, she didn't quite think of the same thing, but she got the idea, for she saw none other than stones, rolling down a hill :) Strange, but true... If you want that URL, I'll send it to you, and you can see just how "psychic" you are :P From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 16 21:22:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28235; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000001bdb138$c1a5dec0$6a298e8b@plassy> From: "Plasmatic" To: Subject: Re: Direct PK (was "Re: Cloudbuster") Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:31:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"WHGcg3.0.5v6.C3jhr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5299 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, took me a little bit of playing around on Telnet to finally get back into my Freenet account without having to dialup, but I got on there. The link is a fairly fast one to a University, in the US I believe. The text was written by an ordinary joe, who doesn't talk in scientific terms or anything, and the drawins are hand done only to try and get the point across a little better (again, it's hard to describe something that only happens in your mind), but the text is no bull :) The URL is http://www.imsa.edu/~jgable/psy/index.html I'm certain you will get alot out of that, also, I have another URL I just found barried in my bookmarks, so I'm not sure how worthy it is, but you can take a look at it :) http://homepages.iol.ie/~dgbrowne/basic_ps.htm Those two, especially the first one, should give you plenty of reading for now. The former is the only good URL I could really find on the Internet, other than Magick groups on the 'net selling mystic candles and what not :) -----Original Message----- From: BrianABQ@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, July 16, 1998 2:18 PM Subject: Re: Direct PK (was "Re: Cloudbuster") >Can you send me that link? I am also very interested in PK. I've been watching >this show all week called Science of the Impossible. It's on discovery >channel. Last night's was about PK and other invisible forces. Lots of Free >Energy related stuff... Can you help me do and find out about this kind of >stuff? > >Thanx > >-BrianABQ > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 16 21:49:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA02151; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:47:48 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 00:38:57 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Web site updated (Butch) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"9hlpt3.0.XX.oTjhr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5300 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I have updated my web site at: http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html I am also in the process of putting together a second site that will have every drawing and animation, theory, ect., I have come up with to date regardless of how crazy. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 16 23:20:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19583; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:19:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:19:44 -0700 Message-ID: <002e01bdb14b$3de4a4a0$0d3cd6d1@martylin> From: "MartyDonna" To: Subject: Re: Direct PK (was "Re: Cloudbuster") Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 02:22:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"j767g1.0.vn4.0qkhr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5301 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Food works great. Have the person to think of the taste of a food. Make sure it's not something you & the other person have eaten that day. Then think about it, taste it , focus on it in your head. The other person will taste it or something close 75% of the time. You think of hotdog they say bolgana is close. It also seems that once you get a link like this other stuff like colors works great then try cards. They usually get the card color right, 50 50 chance there though, but then the card suite........, & then rather the card is higher than 10 or less....... On the average it's around 75%+. If you look into a bright light then close eyes & really picture the card the odds increase to around perfect. After that we got scared & quit. Was kinda scary but kewl in a way. Makes you feel real humble to say the least. My Electronics Web Page http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 17 05:54:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA20159; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 05:53:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 05:53:53 -0700 Message-ID: <35AF47AE.83251BF2@ctv.es> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:46:39 +0200 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga Reply-To: vramos@ctv.es X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JNaudin509@aol.com, "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: TRY THIS (NEWMAN MACHINE) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1ZqQY1.0.qw4.Xbqhr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5302 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Jean and all. I don't know if nobody received my last message. Jean, place the Newman machine inside a box, and the inject hot air from a hair dryer. Then measure Energy Input VS Energy Output. If this device extracts energy from enviroment, measures MUST change in this experiment. Vicente. -- Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga E-mail: vramos@ctv.es Home Page: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm Burriana (Castellon) SPAIN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 17 13:14:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11686; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:08:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:08:48 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <3298ddad.35afad64@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:00:34 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Steel coil looks good..(Reply from Butch to Stefan).. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"FNzhr2.0.Us2.Dzwhr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5303 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-17 07:00:28 EDT, you write: << Can you test this somehow ? >> Stefan and all, I believe that the entire Stator can be made of "steel magnet wire" for a test model. I would keep the resistance to flux passage constant around the stator ring. There would be ne ferrite need in the test model. All that is needed now is this odd wire! I believe that the collapse of the field will cause an attraction, not a repelling force. Remember that the only place the coil would have a closed circuit would be from around 270 to 360 degrees. The remaining wire would be just a path for the flux. Wood or any nonmagnetic material could be use to wrap the wire around. The flux must only saturate the portion of the coil next to the magnet poles. Regards, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 17 13:25:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29296; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:21:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:21:48 -0700 Message-ID: <35AFB1B6.10C4EEB1@harti.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 22:19:03 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "HLafonte@aol.com" Subject: Re: Steel coil looks good..(Reply from Butch to Stefan).. References: <3298ddad.35afad64@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2dQ0T2.0.b97.S9xhr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5304 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-17 07:00:28 EDT, you write: > > << Can you test this somehow ? >> > Stefan and all, > I believe that the entire Stator can be made of "steel magnet wire" for a test > model. > I would keep the resistance to flux passage constant around the stator ring. > There would be ne ferrite need in the test model. All that is needed now is > this odd wire! I believe that the collapse of the field will cause an > attraction, not a repelling force. Remember that the only place the coil would > have a closed circuit would be from around 270 to 360 degrees. The remaining > wire would be just a path for the flux. Well, I just think about, how this coil would be winded... As it must be insolated, there will always be an airgap between layers of the wire, so the flux density will not be as high as in normal ferrite or steel. This will be a very interesting experiment to carry out ! Maybe it was always wrong to use copper for the wire of electromotors ! Maybe steel wire is the way to go ! Good luck in finding out ! Regards, Stefan. > Wood or any nonmagnetic material could be use to wrap the wire around. The > flux must only saturate the portion of the coil next to the magnet poles. > Regards, > Butch -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 17 13:51:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17031; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35AFB389.1F0313D3@harti.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 22:26:50 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list , Greg Watson Subject: Watsonīs refund did not come in....maybe it is a fraud ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"moz0Q3.0.0A4.3Oxhr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5305 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Did anybody now finally got his refund ? It seems it was a fraud to sell SMOT kits in advance.... Well, one never learns enough... -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 18 00:16:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA24550; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 00:14:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 00:14:42 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Red-Leader" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 02:17:41 +0000 Subject: Re: Steel coil looks good..(Reply from Butch to Stefan).. Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <19980718021745.5f22d255.in@smtp.dabney.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"u2N3O.0.G_5.Wj4ir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5306 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan wrote: > This will be a very interesting experiment to carry out ! > Maybe it was always wrong to use copper for the wire of electromotors ! > Maybe steel wire is the way to go ! Copper wire has always been used for two reasons. 1. It's cheap 2. it's a good conductor. Steel isn't all that great of a conductor so the coil might get hot if you use very long lengths of steel or iron wire. Also might have a problem with flexibility but it is a very interesting thought and I can't think of anybody who has ever tried magnetic wire in a coil or motor before. Good luck in experimenting. Emmett Hawkins From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 18 04:57:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA14706; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 04:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 04:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980718211615.0085d840@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 21:16:15 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: New articles at my Solaris web site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"wMS1N3.0.db3.Gq8ir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5308 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:32 AM 6/28/98 -0700, you wrote: I have added some new stuff at my geocities Solaris site Article that I have promised for some time A radio powered motor circu 1930 http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/radmot.html Bruce Perreault Radiant Energy Research Manual in html format by kind permission on the Author http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/bruce.html A project I am currently working on in ralation to the Swiss ML with photos of some of the construction http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/project.html Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 18 04:58:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA14670; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 04:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 04:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BDB249.88CC77A0@que2-p7.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Scalar Term in Maxwell Equations Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 12:42:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDB249.88CC77A0" Resent-Message-ID: <"C9g9p3.0.5b3.2q8ir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5307 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDB249.88CC77A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, Steve wrote: >On Wed, 8 Jul 1998 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT) dave dameron > writes: >>Hi Steve and all, > >>Could you please tell the Dover book title? > >The Dover edition is called "A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism", >first published in 1954, is a "slightly edited" (their words) of >Maxwell's 1891 third edition. I got it at the Virginia Tech Bookstore >back in 1992. This are the same books I have, but their words are "slightly altered" and not "slightly edited". There is a big difference, as I believe that "alterations" refer to graphic composition changes and not content changes. Please note that this is an unabridged edition but not a facsimile edition. > >>I am very curious of what you find out. For example, the divergence of >>a vector B is defined as =dB(x)/dx +dB(y)/dy +dB(z)/dz, these are >partial derivatives. >>It can be shown as = to the outward flux of B per unit volume. Am sure >>it's used in many other fields, such as fluid mechanics. > True. Divergence is a differential operator that applies to any vector field and is zero in those points in space where are no sources or sinks. In the case of the magnetic field it is zero everywhere since it is a solenoidal field. There are no magnetic sources or sinks. > > >>Is this idea different in quaterion notation vs. vector notation, or >>is just the notation different? In vector Maxwell's equations, >divergence B >>=0. Is there some term that was dropped, or is writing B as 3 (x,y,z) >>vector components the "error"? This hasn't changed a bit since Maxwell. He does not use Quaternions anywhere. All maths in this book is done in vector notation. To be more precise, he develops his equations a space coordinate at a time and then summarizes his expressions in the compact vector notation. The concepts he developed are still in use today, and even if quaternion language would be developed (one such development can be found at http://world.std.com/~sweetser/quaternions/qindex/qindex.html), they would still be valid. (Seems that Bearden really goofed up again on this one.) > >What appears to be dropped was the term for scalar potential (see page >177, and bottom of page 239). > Once established that the electric potential is a scalar, why keep repeating it? > > >It apprears to me that what Maxwell termed the magnetic potential in his >equations, are what we call the A-field now. Yet it appears that what >Bearden discusses in his books is closer to the electric potential. So it >appears that there are at least two different types of scalar fields, >perhaps more. > >Any comments? > >Steve Heckman > In this context there are three potentials, and this hasn't changed over time. There is the electric potential, which is a scalar. There is the magnetostatic potential, which is also a scalar, and there is also the magnetic vector potential (the A-field) which is of course a vector. >From the first, the electric field "E" is found through the gradiant operator. >From the second, the magnetic field "H" is found in the same way in a current-free region of space. >From the third, the magnetic flux density is obtained through the curl operator. 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Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:11:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:11:26 -0700 From: BrianABQ@aol.com Message-ID: <6b77475f.35b0baf5@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 11:10:44 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Cloudbuster Diagram Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"Broay2.0._d6.TiBir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5309 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ANy good cloudbuster diagrams out there? I saw one on someones webpage but forgot who. Thanks. BrianABQ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 18 09:25:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14021; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 09:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 09:17:59 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 12:09:50 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Steel coil looks good (Reply from Butch to Emmett) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"XGyJN.0.wQ3.qgCir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5310 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-18 03:16:16 EDT, you write: << I can't think of anybody who has ever tried magnetic wire in a coil or motor before. Good luck in experimenting. Emmett Hawkins >> Hi Emmett, I have always had a feeling that it would not be just a unique arangement and timing of machine parts that would bring about overunity in a magnet type device. I have felt that a unique material composition would have to be used also. One that would be very hard for the average person to obtain. I know the offset magnet and the stator ring with it's air gap will cause an additional attraction force when the magnet is approaching top dead center, it's very clear that it will, it's just a matter of getting the right wire material in the right combination. It then has to be coated also. This is very hard to do and I wonder if this just might be a good sign. It appears that the perfect coil (90 degree segment) would have to be made up of steel on the inside of the ring and change over to copper as it leaves this area. Just think how hard it would be to have a wire that was copper magnet wire with a 2 inch segment of it made of steel that was insulated also! We are talking tens of thousands of dollars to manufacture it if anyone would take on the task to start with. I see this as a very good sign. If it was easy someone would have done it along time ago. I believe that all that stands between success with a true overunity device at this time is the manufacturing of this wire. I will put on my web page a drawing of this wire combination and post when it is uploaded. Let me know what you think. Regards, Butch Web site: http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 18 11:49:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02229; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 11:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 11:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35B0EAF8.8205206B@harti.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:35:37 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "HLafonte@aol.com" Subject: Re: Steel coil looks good (Reply from Butch to Emmett) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-L3KR.0.jY.irEir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5311 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-18 03:16:16 EDT, you write: > << I can't think of anybody who has ever tried > magnetic wire in a coil or motor before. Good luck in experimenting. > Emmett Hawkins >> > Hi Emmett, > I have always had a feeling that it would not be just a unique arangement and > timing of machine parts that would bring about overunity in a magnet type > device. I have felt that a unique material composition would have to be used > also. One that would be very hard for the average person to obtain. I know the > offset magnet and the stator ring with it's air gap will cause an additional > attraction force when the magnet is approaching top dead center, it's very > clear that it will, it's just a matter of getting the right wire material in > the right combination. It then has to be coated also. This is very hard to do > and I wonder if this just might be a good sign. It appears that the perfect > coil (90 degree segment) would have to be made up of steel on the inside of > the ring and change over to copper as it leaves this area. Just think how hard > it would be to have a wire that was copper magnet wire with a 2 inch segment > of it made of steel that was insulated also! We are talking tens of thousands > of dollars to manufacture it if anyone would take on the task to start with. I > see this as a very good sign. If it was easy someone would have done it along > time ago. I believe that all that stands between success with a true overunity > device at this time is the manufacturing of this wire. I will put on my web > page a drawing of this wire combination and post when it is uploaded. Let me > know what you think. > Regards, > Butch > Web site: http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html Hi Butch, I guess it will be just more easy to use just insolated steel wire, as you can get it probably from boat-ship addons shops. They probably have the 3 mm wire diameter with plastic insolation for fixing a sail-boat or something like this... I should be really available, maybe not very cheap, but surely pretty easy to get... Also you could first go with bigger diameter and just use less windings, so you also will have a lower DC resistance and thus much less loss power inside the wire. It must not be a Newman coil to try your idea ! It will also work with just a few windings, if your theory is right ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 18 15:02:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10344; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 14:59:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 14:59:52 -0700 Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 15:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807182200.PAA08502@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: RE: Scalar Term in Maxwell Equations Resent-Message-ID: <"5Cx0c1.0.SX2.OhHir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5312 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Antonio and all! Thanks for the info. At 12:42 PM 7/18/98 -0000, you wrote: >Hello everyone, > >>>Is this idea different in quaterion notation vs. vector notation, or >>>is just the notation different? In vector Maxwell's equations, >>divergence B >>>=0. Is there some term that was dropped, or is writing B as 3 (x,y,z) >>>vector components the "error"? > >This hasn't changed a bit since Maxwell. He does not use Quaternions anywhere. >All maths in this book is done in vector notation. To be more precise, he develops >his equations a space coordinate at a time and then summarizes his expressions >in the compact vector notation. The concepts he developed are still in use today, >and even if quaternion language would be developed (one such development can be >found at http://world.std.com/~sweetser/quaternions/qindex/qindex.html), they would >still be valid. (Seems that Bearden really goofed up again on this one.) > >> >>What appears to be dropped was the term for scalar potential (see page >>177, and bottom of page 239). >> That's good to know that one can follow the added scalar concepts in "normal" vector notation, as I am not familiar yet quaternions. > >Once established that the electric potential is a scalar, why keep repeating it? > To distinguish it from the "A" vector potential. One can say either "scalar" or "electric". (Ignoring the magnetostatic potential you mention :-)). I haven't found the books yet, so cannot describe what's done on page 177, etc. >> > >In this context there are three potentials, and this hasn't changed over time. >There is the electric potential, which is a scalar. >There is the magnetostatic potential, which is also a scalar, >and there is also the magnetic vector potential (the A-field) which is of course a vector. > >>From the first, the electric field "E" is found through the gradiant operator. >>From the second, the magnetic field "H" is found in the same way in a current-free region of space. Yes used in "mmf" type calculations. Flux in an air gap, etc. It is the special case you noted. >>From the third, the magnetic flux density is obtained through the curl operator. > >Hope this helps -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 18 16:19:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02816; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:12:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:12:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 14:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807182143.OAA09430@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: leoguitar@vossnet.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Steel coil looks good (Reply from Butch to Emmett) Resent-Message-ID: <"dztSe.0.wh.slIir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5313 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan, Butch and all, At 08:35 PM 7/18/98 +0200, you wrote: > > >HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 98-07-18 03:16:16 EDT, you write: >> << I can't think of anybody who has ever tried >> magnetic wire in a coil or motor before. Good luck in experimenting. >> Emmett Hawkins >> >> Hi Emmett, >> I have always had a feeling that it would not be just a unique arangement and >> timing of machine parts that would bring about overunity in a magnet type >> device. I have felt that a unique material composition would have to be used >> also. Soft drawn iron wire is easily found in hardware stores. For short lengths, you could string out the wire and paint it with varnish. I have tried this. For larger diameter, you can wrap paper around it, or cloth, the same way Faraday, etc. did. Then soak it in wax after it is wound. I also saw interesting wire in an automotive catalog: "Ferro-spiral" (trade mark) spark plug wire. Appears to be s steel winding, solenoid style, around a "copper-nickel" core. Maybe you could find the manufacturer for bulk lengths? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 18 17:46:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03458; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:41:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:41:04 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQPM0iKh+nJXmm8DOTSK1NQcYS5GgIUK8cokMu2kFd0pTPCEorgGeqIMmM= From: B777b77@webtv.net (R B) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 19:41:25 -0500 (EST) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Steel coil looks good (Reply from Butch to Emmett) Message-ID: <20315-35B140B5-4374@mailtod-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"3zeiq3.0.tr.V2Kir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5314 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Guitar strings come in many different sizes the smallest I believe is .008 In. stainless steel. The length may be a problem, Just a thought. RB From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 18 18:21:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15623; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 18:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 18:14:03 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 21:05:03 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Steel coil looks good (Reply from Butch to Emmett) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"y7Y0U3.0.1q3.PXKir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5315 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-18 20:47:12 EDT, you write: << The length may be a problem, Just a thought. RB >> RB, Thanks for the help, I need all I can get. Regards, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 18 20:08:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA26184; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:03:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:03:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199807190303.XAA09860@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: RE; Nickel-gold alloy Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 07:47:02 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"O4olU3.0.2P6.v7Mir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5316 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Butch, Electronic Surplus Inc. in Cleveland had a magnetic insulated wire that I bought years ago out of curiosity for induction arc experiments. I think it was 18 gauge and plastic coated. I dont know what it was used for, I think I heard it was for circuit board connections for good solder wire low resistance connections although that sounds illogical. Although it sounds exotic the cost range was not out of sight. Probably a very low percentage of gold in alloy or maybe wire has low melting point. Will make enquires as this wire interests me myself. I once bought a spool of twist tie paper coated steel wire to see if high induction effects were present. This was the kind used in bread bags ect. Obviously a magnetic wire will increase the inductance,but I always stand to be corrected. H. Norris email mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 18 20:50:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29283; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980718234514.0087b208@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:45:17 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: RE; Nickel-gold alloy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"yRA9u3.0.S97.WiMir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5317 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:47 AM 7/18/98 -0500, you wrote: > I once bought a spool of twist >tie paper coated steel wire to see if high induction effects were >present. This was the kind used in bread bags ect. Obviously a magnetic >wire will increase the inductance,but I always stand to be corrected. Very clever Meat Truck, or can I just call you Meat? Did it make a good ready-made inductor? How high was the Q? K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 18 23:10:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11251; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807190529.BAA18977@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Singing arc Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:15:01 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eXg_L1.0.gl2.HOOir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5318 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Years ago I investigated what we call induction arcing. This when the voltage at a break in a dc current to a large inductor rises so that it enables an arc to form. A lot of energy seems to be concentrated in that arc, at the time (early 90's) I thought there might be a free energy effect. After all I was melting metal with 150 watts input. In the study of the power supply it was noticed that a higher capacitance placed in parrallel with the pulsed DC from the rectification system would yield both higher voltage and better arcing. Normally I used about 10 microfarad for the filter. This was for a 56 Henry air core inductor. Then it occured to me to try an extremely low value that could resonate with the 120 hz pulse. This turned out to be hundreds of times lower , about .03 microfarad. The induction arc then took on an amazing penetrating laser like action. One day while playing with this the whole garage started resonating with a high pitched sound! This was the strangest experience, the sound seemed so all engulfing as if the whole garage was vibrating. Chalk this up as an analomous phenomenon, as we were never again able to produce this effect which lasted about 5 seconds. I recall something about the early day of radio when a singing arc was mentioned. I dont know if this was a high frequency arc used to make a radio reciever make a certain auditory frequency or whether the arc itself could emit musical tones. Would appreciate any info on this "singing arc" referance. Sincerly, H. Norris , email mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 18 23:35:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16629; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:02:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199807190602.CAA04702@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: RE; ready made inductor( to K) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:46:34 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3HLez3.0.l34.llOir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5319 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tie paper spool of steel had wide verticle spacing in layers due the fact that paper was flat. It was about 1,000 ohms. This was in the early 90's when I was playing with Newman machines and I didnt have an induction meter then. In fact I hadn't even started to realize the significance of resonating alternating currents and so back then I didnt know much about Q. Geez I hadnt even built my first Tesla coil. But I did do a lot of stuff along the way. I found out if You put a human body in a 20 inch diameter Tesla coil about body height you get a big loss of high potential at the high voltage end. Your hairs on you arm will stand out. You also might get clustrophobia. Thats what happened to me. Truly, HDN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 19 00:01:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA22372; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:28:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:28:04 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <171c9ce9.35b191d3@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 02:27:30 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Look at this strange coil ! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"X-5r12.0.UT5.q7Pir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5320 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I have just uploaded unique coil design to solve flux path problem in my new design. It's the half copper half steel coil drawings on my site. Thanks, Butch LaFonte My site: http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html I would also like to thank all the people that are helping with this project, I will list them on web site soon. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 19 00:23:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18394; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980719025359.0087e9e8@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 02:54:02 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: Singing arc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"gX-iZ1.0.KV4.PTPir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5321 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:15 AM 7/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >Years ago I investigated what we call induction arcing. This when the >voltage at a break in a dc current to a large inductor rises so that it >enables an arc to form. A lot of energy seems to be concentrated in that >arc, at the time (early 90's) I thought there might be a free energy >effect. After all I was melting metal with 150 watts input. In the study of >the power supply it was noticed that a higher capacitance placed in >parrallel with the pulsed DC from the rectification system would yield both >higher voltage and better arcing. Normally I used about 10 microfarad for >the filter. This was for a 56 Henry air core inductor. Then it occured to >me to try an extremely low value that could resonate with the 120 hz >pulse. This turned out to be hundreds of times lower , about .03 >microfarad. Best reference I have to the singing arc is a classic study done by Steinmetz. Long dissertation on the negative resistance properties of arcs. I can see the appeal to you. Steinmetz claimed the electrode material was critical to successful operation; what were yours made of? Also, a gas fill was critical for frequencies over audio. > The induction arc then took on an amazing penetrating laser >like action. One day while playing with this the whole garage started >resonating with a high pitched sound! This was the strangest experience, >the sound seemed so all engulfing as if the whole garage was vibrating. >Chalk this up as an analomous phenomenon, as we were never again able to >produce this effect which lasted about 5 seconds. I recall something about >the early day of radio when a singing arc was mentioned. I dont know if >this was a high frequency arc used to make a radio reciever make a >certain auditory frequency or whether the arc itself could emit musical >tones. Would appreciate any info on this "singing arc" referance. Sincerly, >H. Norris , email mnorris@akron.infi.net Used in early radio circuits as a source of RF, I've made oscillation in the MHz region. Inefficient, but you can really put alot of power into the arc. The arc itself can store energy. Where did you end up with this? K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 19 07:01:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA17174; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 06:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 06:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 08:22:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Singing arc To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <199807190529.BAA18977@fh102.infi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4VcYC.0.EC4.gJVir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5322 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 18 Jul 1998, Meat Truck wrote: > Years ago I investigated what we call induction arcing. This when the > voltage at a break in a dc current to a large inductor rises so that it > enables an arc to form. A lot of energy seems to be concentrated in that > arc, at the time (early 90's) I thought there might be a free energy > effect. After all I was melting metal with 150 watts input. In the study of > the power supply it was noticed that a higher capacitance placed in > parrallel with the pulsed DC from the rectification system would yield both > higher voltage and better arcing. Normally I used about 10 microfarad for > the filter. This was for a 56 Henry air core inductor. Then it occured to > me to try an extremely low value that could resonate with the 120 hz > pulse. This turned out to be hundreds of times lower , about .03 > microfarad. The induction arc then took on an amazing penetrating laser > like action. One day while playing with this the whole garage started > resonating with a high pitched sound! This was the strangest experience, > the sound seemed so all engulfing as if the whole garage was vibrating. > Chalk this up as an analomous phenomenon, as we were never again able to > produce this effect which lasted about 5 seconds. I recall something about > the early day of radio when a singing arc was mentioned. I dont know if > this was a high frequency arc used to make a radio reciever make a > certain auditory frequency or whether the arc itself could emit musical > tones. Would appreciate any info on this "singing arc" referance. Sincerly, > H. Norris , email mnorris@akron.infi.net > > Back in the early part of the century, when spark-gap transmitters were used for radio, there was a device used called a "rotary spark-gap". Instead of having two stationary points for the spark to jump, one point was fixed and a rotating wheel with many protruding pins supplied the other point. The wheel was rotated to produce modulation of the spark gap at a couple hundred to a couple thousand Hz. This is what was called a "singing spark gap". I think it is mentioned in the book "200 Meters And Down" by Clarence B. DeSoto, available from the American Radio Relay League, 225 Main St, Newington, CT 06111. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 19 09:09:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07705; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:06:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:06:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35B21707.71F5635@harti.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 17:55:51 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Singing arc References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8gkjv.0.Fu1.xbXir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5323 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zack Widup wrote: > On Sat, 18 Jul 1998, Meat Truck wrote: > > > Years ago I investigated what we call induction arcing. This when the > > voltage at a break in a dc current to a large inductor rises so that it > > enables an arc to form. A lot of energy seems to be concentrated in that > > arc, at the time (early 90's) I thought there might be a free energy > > effect. After all I was melting metal with 150 watts input. In the study of > > the power supply it was noticed that a higher capacitance placed in > > parrallel with the pulsed DC from the rectification system would yield both > > higher voltage and better arcing. Normally I used about 10 microfarad for > > the filter. This was for a 56 Henry air core inductor. Then it occured to > > me to try an extremely low value that could resonate with the 120 hz > > pulse. This turned out to be hundreds of times lower , about .03 > > microfarad. The induction arc then took on an amazing penetrating laser > > like action. One day while playing with this the whole garage started > > resonating with a high pitched sound! This was the strangest experience, > > the sound seemed so all engulfing as if the whole garage was vibrating. > > Chalk this up as an analomous phenomenon, as we were never again able to > > produce this effect which lasted about 5 seconds. I recall something about > > the early day of radio when a singing arc was mentioned. I dont know if > > this was a high frequency arc used to make a radio reciever make a > > certain auditory frequency or whether the arc itself could emit musical > > tones. Would appreciate any info on this "singing arc" referance. Sincerly, > > H. Norris , email mnorris@akron.infi.net > > > > > > Back in the early part of the century, when spark-gap transmitters were > used for radio, there was a device used called a "rotary spark-gap". > Instead of having two stationary points for the spark to jump, one point > was fixed and a rotating wheel with many protruding pins supplied the > other point. The wheel was rotated to produce modulation of the spark > gap at a couple hundred to a couple thousand Hz. > > This is what was called a "singing spark gap". > > I think it is mentioned in the book "200 Meters And Down" by Clarence B. > DeSoto, available from the American Radio Relay League, 225 Main St, > Newington, CT 06111. > > Zack I Have heard, that there exist "plasmas-loudspeakers" that use a plasma or an ARC to produce sound. The ARC is modulated with a sound wave and it is a very good loudspeaker with omnidirect sound output. The only problem is the Ozone, that this device produces... But for midrange to highrange audio frequency it is a perfect loudspeaker I was told... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 19 09:25:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10827; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35B21A9A.D2D48175@darknet.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:11:06 -0400 From: Steve Organization: DarkNet Online/Digital Fusion X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Singing arc References: <35B21707.71F5635@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vhRDk2.0.4f2.CsXir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5324 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > I Have heard, that there exist "plasmas-loudspeakers" that use a plasma or an ARC > to produce sound. The ARC is modulated with a sound wave and it is a very good > loudspeaker with omnidirect sound output. The only problem is the Ozone, > that this device produces... Hi all, I've heard of this too, but haven't been able to find much info on them.. I used to have a patent reference, but I can't find it anymore.. does anyone have any additional info? thanks! -Steve -- darklord@darknet.net | UIN: 5113616 DarkNet Online: http://www.darknet.net Digital Fusion: http://www.darknet.net/fusion From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 19 09:49:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02403; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:45:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:45:09 -0700 Message-ID: <001701bdb334$f7ff0ac0$4711a098@data> From: "Edward Kauffmann" To: , , Subject: Re: Flipping Magnetic Fields?? Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:44:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003D_01BDB312.FF4C0FC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"DZYX33.0.Sb.JAYir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5325 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BDB312.FF4C0FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry if you have already seen this, but if you haven't or you know more please take a look at this. I've attached the original email for reference. //////////////////////////////////////////// Hi Everyone, I just dug up this email Jerry Decker sent a few months back, and I tried to duplicate this effect. I got the effects mentioned except the poles do not appear to flip as indicated below. This is the key statement: >> He says this happens not because the attraction to the plate is >> stronger than the pole repulsions (after all, it has magnetized the >> plate with the same polarity so is essentially an extension of the >> magnet pole energy)....but he says he watched the fields at different >> points and when the magnets begin to attract, the moving magnet pole >> actually FLIPS! >From what I see, the attraction IS from the plate being stronger than the pole repulsions. If we have magnet A, B and C with A's north pole stuck to one side of an iron rod and then bring B's north pole close to the other side of the iron rod, we get a repelling zone until we bring B up closer to the rod and then it sticks. According to the attached email, the poles actually flip. Now if this were true, wouldn't we be able to bring magnet C's north side up to B's south side and they should repel? If this switching of poles did take place, I have an idea of how to make a device that should work and it would be very easy to build. However, this doesn't appear to be the case. Has anyone else played more with this and can comment? Thanks. Regards, Ed ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BDB312.FF4C0FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; name="Flipping Magnetic Fields.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Flipping Magnetic Fields.txt" From: Jerry W. Decker To: KeelyNet-L@lists.kz Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; vortex-l@eskimo.com = Subject: Flipping Magnetic Fields?? Date: Saturday, March 07, 1998 1:23 PM Hi Folks! This is an email I sent to a friend and researcher; > Well, better to try and fail....this info was shared courtesy of Wes=20 > Crosiar..so thank him if you have occasion to communicate...he's been = > ill with a flu and is better now... > Something odd you might be interested in...a fellow (Wes) says you=20 > can take a magnet, like a cylinder or bar....put a thick metal piece=20 > on one pole (doesn't matter)....then bring a similar magnet close to=20 > the metal plate so that the approaching pole is identical to the one=20 > it is moving near to. > As I am told, when you slowly move the magnet towards the metal = plate, > you will find the magnets repel until right before you get to the > plate...then all of sudden, it will attract and both magnets will=20 > stick to the plate. > He says this happens not because the attraction to the plate is=20 > stronger than the pole repulsions (after all, it has magnetized the=20 > plate with the same polarity so is essentially an extension of the=20 > magnet pole energy)....but he says he watched the fields at different = > points and when the magnets begin to attract, the moving magnet pole > actually FLIPS! > He believes this is the key to the Sweet device, the Minato=20 > self-driven magnetic wheel and other devices....it is almost exactly=20 > what Wesley Gary said happened with his magnetic 'neutral line'..... > Isn't that interesting???? I'm going to do that when I get some = steel > plate...he says the thicker the = better....-------------------------------------------- The email response was; >> Well - it does! (flip polarity) >> I have a few rare earths. This effect can be seen at 4 to 6 inches.=20 >> The non metallic magnet turns and tries to spin around. (I just went=20 >> in the shop and tested it!) There is something else odd, the magnet = at >> a distance, turns about 30 to 45 degrees and stays there.=20 >> (with regard to the Minato self-running bicycle wheel as at; >> http://keelynet.com/gravity/curtis0.htm ) I am trying to find a=20 >> small smooth plate I can mount 1 nib to so I can see exactly what it=20 >> does. It would seem many on a plate will turn.....=20 >> But I have to test this magnet thingy! I find heavy chrome from my = old=20 >> motorcycle makes super conductor for magnets. I get more power using=20 >> them than iron. If I can rig it, I will have pictures for you. = ------------------------------------------------- Many of my associates think the Sweet device used such a magnetic bubble = switch effect, and Wes says Coler and Hendershot also used it..>>> Jerry --=20 Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BDB312.FF4C0FC0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 19 10:41:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12148; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:37:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:37:06 -0700 Message-ID: <35B22E9A.254C@swipnet.se> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:36:26 +0200 From: Roger Natanaelsson X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Singing arc References: <35B21707.71F5635@harti.com> <35B21A9A.D2D48175@darknet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dJ-Oa2.0.kz2.2xYir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5326 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > I Have heard, that there exist "plasmas-loudspeakers" that use a > > plasma or an ARC to produce sound. Mitsubishi have a modern system called Arc Sound, working with different gases to 'protect' the arc.Since the sound is radiated from a single point, you can listen to stereo effect free from position between speakers. The Arc Sound system is for demonstration, not a consumer product ! Early in 1900 there was a lot of experiment going on with this technic. Roger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 19 10:51:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14317; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:45:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:45:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199807191744.NAA02593@surfergirl.spacey.net> Reply-To: From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: ZeroPoint/Overunity Devices Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:41:23 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"G6AaF1.0.dV3.t2Zir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5327 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: LETS FIND THE PROBLEM -- IT WILL LEAD TO THE SOLUTION. Could everyone please take a minute to post your best reason(s) as to why NO zero-point/over-unity/free energy device has EVER made it out of the lab, been put into production, and brought to market? History is replete with dozens of researchers stumbling onto what seems to be essentially the same phenomenon, from Tesla to Newman. Despite the fact that this technique is reproducible and even allowable under quantum mechanics, no one has seemed competent to put it to use to generate electric power. I'd like to know your opinions as to "Why?". While government conspiracies may well exist, the government can't deliver mail reliably, make Amtrak run on time, keep Plutonium away from Saddam Hussain, stop Cocaine at the borders, or do anything else well, thoroughly, and efficiently. I find it hard to believe that it can keep free energy suppressed for a century in the face of the economic incentive we (and everyone else) have to develop it. Something else is in the way and I'd like to know what the bugaboo is, for real. My Best Guesses: 1. Is the effect not scalable to useful power levels because the local energy density of the vacuum (aether, quantum particle flux, etc.) is much lower than Feynmann predicted? If the free energy available per unit volume of space is too meager, the rotating machinery approach will not work for commercial scale systems. Its like photovoltaics; at a net insolation power level of 250 watts/meter2, you will always need large solar panels to do anything useful, no matter how good the cells get. 2. Can nobody find an efficient way to convert the high frequency, high voltage Alternating Current output obtained from all of these systems to the simple 60 Hz, 120 Vac required by all of our appliances? Newman, and the Correas, and RQM have all faced this particular problem, and had to stop to go invent a power converter/conditioner to make their device output useable; yet none have gotten past it yet. If the downconversion losses are too great, free energy systems will not be practical, even if the effect is real. 3. Do the machines simply stop working as the permanent magnets run down and slowly become demagnetized from the conteropposing torquing forces of the opposite fields? Since you can magnetize a piece of iron by rotating it past an electromagnetic coil via induction, there is no reason to think they wouldn't become demagnetized in the same manner, when confronted with opposite field polarity. This explains why all these devices start working and then dry up and blow away after a short period of amazement; perhaps magnets are just like batteries that wear down and run out. 4. Are there toxic bioenergetic effects that the developers come to realize only after some period of extended operation, which would make any such technology unsuitable for widespread use? Does exporsure sicken people after a while, in some form of [EM] 'radiation poisoning'? The abnormally high mortality rate among free energy researchers provides impressive circumstancial statistical evidence for this. 5. Does the continuous extraction of energy from the vacuum/quantum spacetime/aether have unforeseen environmental consequences at the subdimensional level, for instance, allowing spiritual/psychic forces to more easily ('too' easily) interpenetrate into physical reality from 'beyond'? A home energy machine that brings with it its own haunting of the house into which it is installed would find it hard to maintain widespread public enthusiasm. Now, I'd like to hear all of yours.... David L. Wenbert dwenbert@spacey.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 19 12:58:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12607; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35B24AA8.1A2@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 14:36:08 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet-L@lists.kz CC: wwinters@texasonline.net, tbastian@dmv.com, Tebearden@aol.com, PiyushSaxena@usa.net, petkell@stc.net, pgb@padrak.com, krscfs@svn.net, herman@antioch-college.edu, jcollins@free-energy.co.uk, john1@nidlink.com, ktyls@bluecrow.com, hcurtis1@ix.netcom.com, pinegap@flash.net, halfox@uswest.net, vman@skylink.net, rivas@theriver.com, paijm001@wxs.nl, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ZeroPoint/Overunity Devices References: <199807191746.NAA02598@surfergirl.spacey.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PzBxC3.0.l43.vqair"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5328 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi David! IMO, all of your concerns about WHY we don't have free energy YET breaks down to one simple problem with some side issues. Basically, no one has demonstrated a working tabletop demo that others can build independently to verify the effect. Whether that be in a kit or plans that by god work, when others can directly experience the wonder of a working device, it will take off like wildfire and the inventor will be bombarded with all kinds of opportunities, offers and later awards for his/her sharing the basic technology. That is why we had the shareware offer at; http://www.keelynet.com/share.htm Instead the inventor goes nuts and seeks big money to build an overcomplex unit that fails to meet the inventors promises and the investors expectations. That in addition to ego, power and greed, all of which come into the mix, either singly or combined. One other MAJOR flaw is that of wanting to PERFECT THE DEVICE. We should all learn from Keely on this one as documented in the new book by Theo Paijmans 'Free Energy Pioneer: John Worrell Keely' where it clearly shows how over a 30 year period, despite numerous public demonstrations and PROMISES of production equipment, Keely failed to be content with what he'd done and willing to put it into production that others might help resolve any glitches. He kept it close to his chest all those years and died with many of his secrets LOST. So, forget about PERFECTING IT....just discover the anomaly, make sure others can duplicate that anomaly and LET IT GO that others can HELP to develop it to something useful. What follows is a TRUE story that happened with some in our group about 6 years ago. I know a guy who lives very close to me. He has over 50 patents and is a retired thermodynamics engineer. He has a turbine system which he claims will produce way overunity, enough to easily produce 10KW and self-run requiring nothing but AIR! He does say it is more efficient with other gases, but air works fine. He did a presentation to a small group of friends here and it was so excellent, one of our friends wanted to cut him a check for $5,000 despite never having seen hardware.....this is a GRAVE ERROR on the part of many investors, not seeing proof that could be independently tested, just taking someone flash presentation. I explained to him that we too were excited but we ALL need to see a working machine that we can TEST...he agreed and put up his checkbook. We asked the inventor how much he would need to make a prototype that we could test and verify ABSOLUTELY as working and self-running over a period of at least a month and he said about $50,000 would be all that he would need. That would include paying for his time, equipment, parts, construction to have a WORKING and TESTED UNIT...he said he had one but it wasn't hardy enough to be run for a long period or easily moved. He would guarantee it would be self-running and produce at least 5KW continuous. We were each FULLY PREPARED to put up $5,000 with the expectation of proving the unit OURSELVES then seeking more funding for manufacture here in Texas. I believe the deal was we would patent, license and manufacture the device locally and he would get something on the order of 20-30% of the profits from each unit made, after our initial investments were repaid. This was quite awhile ago and I don't recall the exact arrangement, but he agreed and we setup a time for a demo. We assured him the patent would be in his name and we would work to protect his interest and our investment without any shenanigans. Our primary interest was to get working units out to the world and we would be the INITIAL suppliers, though others could license the technology and improve on it, as our inventor friend would be able to do as consultant/chief scientist to the company. The witnesses to this preliminary test of the machine were to be me and a person of my choosing. One of those butterfly investor reps from England got wind of this and popped in. He wanted so badly to see the machine that he told the inventor his 'group' had around 60 million of venture capital and could get up to 300 million. The inventor fell into the trap and his eyes just lit up. He then insisted that it be only me and this butterfly investor rep. I was totally pissed because I knew this guy to never have done a single worthwhile thing in the time I'd known him, making this bogus 'offer' without ever having fulfilled one single promise. He had screwed up several inventor arrangements with these big buck promises that skewed the mind of the inventor so badly they could not see they were being trolled for information. So, our inventor went nuts and started talking about all this money he NOW NEEDED. Where before $50,000 was AMPLE, now he wouldn't consider such a deal unless it started at 10 million, then he increased it to 30, then 60 million...totally lost it because of a flakes 'promises' of 'potential' funding should the device work. Well, it came time for the demonstration so the flake from England flew in and we met at the guys house. The inventor was and is very paranoid and I tried to explain to him about this guys promises and that he was ruining his chances with his now asking for such vast sums of money, but he wouldn't budge, having faith in the butterfly investor rap. We went to the garage and here were all these turbine blades, some finished, many not, made from sheet and other metals. Hanging from a chain suspended from a rafter in the garage was this housing. It looked like a cannister vacuum cleaner and was obviously heavy. I'd say it was about 2 feet deep by 1 foot in diameter. He had it hooked up to a 220 3 phase motor to start the turbine. He plugged it in and the internal turbines were being spun by this electric motor. He showed no power coming out and when we asked him to unplug the motor, he said the turbine would stop, that he'd not had a chance to get it all put together before we met. Now, this was over a period of about 3 months, so he had almost 2 months to get it together and did not. He is retired and has no fixed activities so we were very disturbed that he could not get it together over a 2 month period. However, having known the guy for awhile now, I still had some faith in what he said and asked him to call me when he got it self-running and I'd come back over for another demonstration and test. He said he would do that but never did. The butterfly investor rep said that wasn't good enough and he was no longer interested. He and I had a BIG FALLING OUT because he had done this on a couple of other occasions, tempting potential inventors with these sugarplum business deals that he knew damn well he couldn't fulfill. What it did was to pollute the inventor with temptations of fantastic profits that ruin all rational thought, then he just leaves after ruining our chances to do something REAL. So, he and I no longer communicate. I could never figure out what his trip was, I knew he had money, because if he heard of anything, boom, he was HERE from England in less than 2 days after hearing about it. He said he represented a group of investors but I kind of think it was government. I'm not paranoid but these kind of 'contacts' I didn't NEED......so he's long gone. At any rate, the inventor has never called and still lives there, puttering around in his garage with no hope of backing. I called him once after this and he said he hadn't been able to get the unit self-running for a demo, but I still think he has something based on his original presentation. Perhaps I can get him to put that on videotape and I can strip it to papers and diagrams. It was truly well done and had all of us going. I keep his contact info in my back pocket ready for when we get our own lab going and he will be contacted again, at the time we were ready to do something, but 'things change'. He is using air instead of 'cooking oil' to tap the same effect as the Clem engine, negative VISCOSITY....but that's another story... Back to your original concerns, in the above experience; 1) Initial Good Faith Offer on both sides the inventor was initially just wanting to get his machines in use and we were ready to provide some initial backing 2) Inventor Fails to provide proof the inventor FAILED over a 2 month window to provide a self-sustained unit which he had PROMISED he could do at will 3) Inventor falls prey to false promises the inventor let GREED take over and somehow skewed his ability to be rational - we were still willing at the test point to fulfill our initial deal of $50,000 but the inventor failed to prove the claim Despite how wonderful his presentation was, despite seeing his workshop with numerous home made turbines (some very well done) and his forms, he failed in his demo. And the last time I talked to him, he was still not able to get it self-running. The PERFECT QUOTE for this case; > Only his machines WOULD NOT WORK because the copper > and bronze of his devices would > not acknowledge THE TRUTH of his philosophies. > We'll get it eventually by all working together. I can hear Ken Shoulders and Don Lancaster now, saying, "yeah, you'll get it when you realize free energy is IMPOSSIBLE".......hey, they mean well and we'll just have to show them TOO!! -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 ICQ # - 13175100 / AOL - Keelyman KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 19 15:32:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16459; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:28:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:28:27 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199807190529.BAA18977@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:27:21 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Singing arc Resent-Message-ID: <"b-qut2.0.514.BCdir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5329 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > One day while playing with this the whole garage started > resonating with a high pitched sound! I got a high pitched ringing from a lump of concrete for several seconds once while playing the arc-brush from a flyback transformer over it. Never got that to work again either. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 19 18:50:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11149; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 18:43:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 18:43:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199807200144.VAA00315@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re; dwenbert over unity Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 04:57:29 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lr0LP3.0.6k2.D3gir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5330 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Quest. No 2; Dwenbert asks "Can nobody find an efficient way to covert the high frequency, high voltage A.C. output from these systems into useable power? He assumes that we want120 volt. 60 hz . First let me describe a hypothetical free energy situation.This involves something known as electrical resonance which is assumed that everyone here is familiar with but a case example is not out of order. First of all we want to resonate big time so we use a large air core inductor. This is so higher frequencies can come into play. I use a 56 Henry coil of 20,000 winds of 23 gauge copper. Now we know the inductance and so by plugging it into the wall we can resonate it at 60 hz simply by choosing the right capacitance. Two choices become available; Wecan put the correct capacity of .12 mf in either series or parallel. We find by actual experiment that the voltage rises 15 times across each element when placed in series.But the voltage across the capacitor is opposite to the voltage across the coil and the difference between the two becomes what we read as the input voltage. But the primitive free energy explorer immediately decides to put a load across the high voltage on one of the elements to see if he can harness this "extra" voltage produced from resonance. What he finds is that the voltage to the load is correspondingly reduced by the ratio of it to the resistance of the coil.For simplicity we could say that if the load is across the electric field its potential is reduced according to its draw. This is not a free energy scheme.But what makes many to try this kind of thing is the fact that more energy can oscillate between fields than is actually wasted as heat transfer to the coil. It is a question of how to tap into that unobvious compression of voltage against itself. About 5 years ago I thought I had an answer to this, but I didn't get the pot at the end of the rainbow. But I came up with a discovery I call the Binary Resonant System. In series resonance the voltage is in phase with the current,when the current is maximum,so is the voltage. So at the midpoint of the series res.circuit a kind of "unobvious" compression of voltage takes place. But this could either be compressing electrons into a midpoint, or in the opposite polarity viewpoint withdrawing electrons. In other words an unobvious vacuum of electrons could occur at a midpoint simultaneous to a compression simply by having two series resonant circuits going in opposite directions. They call that being 180 degrees out of phase. It is done simply by putting the two series res. branches backwards with respect to each other and connected in parallel. Now by measuring the difference in midpts twice the voltage rise of either series res. side alone is observed. This is the connection of unobvious potentials and how that might be harnessed. What I think is a discovery may be only common knowledge to others so I am submitting here an amazing fact; When the midpoints are connected as a short the whole circuit becomes parallel resonant. Accordingly twice the amperage is observed in the connection than in either side alone, in conjunction with the previously mentioned fact of doubled potential when the circuit is open. This idea then takes the form of a switch;Open High voltage from twin series res. enables voltage to enable arc across gaps;Closed parallel res. circuit extinguishies arc in reduction of voltage and amperage demand. Then of course the circuit becomes open again to produce an arc again in repito. This represents a new class of high frequency phenomenon; An oscillation between resonances. As I always say however, I stand to be corrected. I am getting off the point I am trying to make. My point is essentially as dwenbert mentioned, what is the most sensible method of extraction? The above circuit will not do it, even though it might hold magnificent possibilities. What I have been saying for some time is that if both the elements of resonance were designed to exist in the same space at right angles a third force should act at right angles to both. In the case of a solitary phase made to harness this idea of spatial harnessing of resonance the output would have twice the frequency as the fields interaction. This is not good for dwenberts solution. He wants usable power and if high frequency goes in he cant use double of that. But if high frequency goes in and he gets a d.c. pulse out that should make everyone happy and prosper at over unity. This could be done by establishing two phases of resonance from 90 degree phasing generators that I will build and sell if necesary to prove a point. When someone hears that E and B are inphase it might make them think of Maxwell"s discovery of wave propagation in EM .Two in phase couplings producing a unidirectional output. This is my answer to dwenbert. Nature uses oscillation in resonance. That same kind of oscillation can be built by man but about a century of ignorance has prevented him from making these generators. If you dont believe it than try to have one built. I did that and will do more down the line. Sincerly, HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 19 19:38:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27483; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:33:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:33:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BDB35B.78F415A0.stk@sunherald.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Biefield-Brown effect real?? Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 21:20:40 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pDxDP2.0.Kj6._ngir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5331 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: Earlier today my grandfather watched the last part of a TV show on The Learning Channel about Thomas Townsend Brown's 'electrogravity effect'. He (my grandfather) said there was a man, possibly Marc Millis, at NASA's Breakthrough Propulsion Physics project who said that NASA was interested in taking another look at the effect using from 30 to 40kV. The man said there may be something to the effect after all. Note: this show was obviously produced after Talley's unsuccessful replication using only 19kV. Talley's test was done in 1991. The Breakthrough Propulsion Physics project didn't get off the ground until 1996. Anyone have any more info on this? Perhaps I should go ahead with my Biefield-Brown effect experiments... Kyle R. Mcallister Email: stk@sunherald.infi.net Phone: 228-875-0629 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/5257 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 19 19:59:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27216; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:43:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:43:40 -0700 Message-ID: <35B2AE64.4CC7@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 21:41:40 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ZeroPoint/Overunity Devices Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3Mkts2.0.4f6.Rxgir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5332 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Something else that could be of interest. The idea that inertia is in fact entrained aether/zpe means that matter presents a drag on the aether, especially when the mass is in motion. I wonder if there is a way inertia could be NOT CANCELLED but STORED somehow so that you could have a vehicle that would not be subject to it, but instead, everytime the vehicle stopped or turned or slowed or speeded up, it would capture the inertial force, possibly converting it to some other form. If Einsteins 1929 UFT is correct and electricity, magnetism, gravity and inertia are all in fact interchangeable, then this is yet another power source. -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 ICQ # - 13175100 / AOL - Keelyman KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 19 22:06:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17088; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:03:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:03:33 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <42880ac6.35b2cf7f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:02:54 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: ZeroPoint/Overunity Devices Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"2_sqM3.0.wA4.b-iir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5333 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 7/19/98 10:51:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dwenbert@spacey.net writes: << Could everyone please take a minute to post your best reason(s) as to why NO zero-point/over-unity/free energy device has EVER made it out of the lab, been put into production, and brought to market? >> My view is that no device which can be effectively scaled has ever been demonstrated. There is a possibility one or more potentially successful devices have been proposed and the inventor/'scientists" trying to develop the technique(s) simply did not have the required skills. I think this is somewhat unlikely, but people like Tesla and others even before him, experimenting before our knowledge of electromagnetism and physics was well developed , could well have had brilliant ideas without the means to pursue them effectively. And our records of their work are often sketchy at best. But be that as it may, to me there is clearly no fundamental reason overunity/free energy devices can not be developed, and it is only a matter of time before our whole society is changed by their existence. In fact, the biggest factor in their slow development is the reluctance of the established scientific community to consider an area of research if overunity/free energy could be a result of the work -----strange. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 19 22:44:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22165; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:38:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:38:14 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Reed Huish" To: "KeelyNet-L (E-mail)" , "Freenrg-L (E-mail)" , "Mike Fisher (E-mail)" , "Trevor Osborne (E-mail)" Subject: Newman show Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:56:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bdb399$b3abf080$5f5b96d1@reed-huish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"WY4Vq1.0.9Q5.5Vjir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5334 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just finished listening to the 30 minute Newman show broadcast in Phoenix. Newman spent this time discussing the millenial 2000 bug, global conspiracies, and how the religions are all tied together by the number 14, amongst other items not related to his energy technology. He referred listeners to his web-site (http://www.josephnewman.com) which I look at during the show. I find it interesting to note at the top of his web-page he says production of his energy machine will begin in June 1998, but when this link is clicked, it does not provide any further information about the machines which were apparently produced a month ago. Newman closes the show by saying, "If you hurt, I hurt for you. If you smile, I smile with you." I know nothing more or nothing new about his technology or marketing plans than I did before I listened to his show. I observe his interests might be better served if he focused on his technology, proof that it works, how the consumer might obtain one of his products, and his future marketing plans, instead of a political speech. He will be on the radio 12 more Sundays. - Reed ------------------------------------------ Reed N Huish, President & CEO Zenergy Corporation Post Office Box 73, Chandler Arizona 85244 Phone: 602.814.7865 Fax 602.821.0967 Direct Email: mailto:reed@zenergy.com General Email: mailto:info@zenergy.com Internet: http://zenergy.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 20 00:07:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA30423; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:59:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:59:39 -0700 X-Internal-ID: 35AF5BE4000029F6 Message-ID: <35B2EAC0.B94B97E7@freeline.ch> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:59:12 +0200 From: Martin Schmid X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: COOLING DEVICE References: <009601bdb08f$3d422980$96d2989e@david-callaghan> <35b0f60c.21840800@mail-hub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HSRYr.0.HR7.Rhkir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5335 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You're surely talking about peltier elements. These devices don't convert one energy in another form - besides losses due to their electrical resistance. They only transport thermal energy from one to the other side. It's a reversible effect: you can apply a thermal current and you get a small electrical current or you can apply an huge electrical current and get a thermal current. However, the losses are too important for economical use of them... Regards, Martin Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:38:45 +0100, David Callaghan wrote: > > >Hi > > > >In a recent New Scientist issue they demonstated a 50mm square > >device that provided enough cooling for a large refrigerator that > >was very efficient. It used (I forget exactly) two semiconductors > > It was invented by http://www.borealis.com/ > [snip] > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk -- 4L GmbH Tel: +41 62 867 4000 Martin Schmid Fax: +41 62 876 3111 Oberzeiherstr. 1 > new e-mail address < CH-5079 Zeihen mschmid@datacomm.ch is obsolete From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 20 04:31:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA13645; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 04:27:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 04:27:15 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: COOLING DEVICE Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:27:25 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35b928d3.106221710@mail-hub> References: <009601bdb08f$3d422980$96d2989e@david-callaghan> <35b0f60c.21840800@mail-hub> <35B2EAC0.B94B97E7@freeline.ch> In-Reply-To: <35B2EAC0.B94B97E7@freeline.ch> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FvFQj1.0.7L3.Icoir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5336 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:59:12 +0200, Martin Schmid wrote: >You're surely talking about peltier elements. [snip] No I was not. The device in question is based on a totally different principle, thermionic emission. What has been discovered are substances that are reasonably efficient thermionic emitters at room temperature or lower. >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >> >> On Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:38:45 +0100, David Callaghan wrote: >> >> >Hi >> > >> >In a recent New Scientist issue they demonstated a 50mm square >> >device that provided enough cooling for a large refrigerator that >> >was very efficient. It used (I forget exactly) two semiconductors >> >> It was invented by http://www.borealis.com/ >> [snip] >> >> Regards, >> >> Robin van Spaandonk Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 20 07:37:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07715; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:32:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:32:26 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: COOLING DEVICE Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:37:59 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"-nZTG1.0.Su1.wJrir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5337 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Recently received a catalog of misc electronics from Herbach and Rademan (1998 - Issue 3). On page 27 are several Peltier junction devices that can be purchased for $25 to $40. Act exactly like an ordinary mechanical heat pump or refrigerator, exept it is all solid state. Feed electricity in, then one side of the device gets hot, the other side gets cold. Currently being used as supplemental cooling for semiconductor devices, or for small refrigerators. Don't know how efficient these devices are, they may use more electricity per unit of cooling than the ordinary Freon gas mechanical units. Charles From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 20 07:51:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA11674; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35B35608.58F81A8E@midusa.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:36:56 -0500 From: Jon Flickinger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Look at this strange coil ! References: <171c9ce9.35b191d3@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7wFVU.0.Es2.IWrir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5338 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > Hi all, > I have just uploaded unique coil design to solve flux path problem in my new > design. > It's the half copper half steel coil drawings on my site. > Thanks, > Butch LaFonte > My site: http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html > I would also like to thank all the people that are helping with this project, > I will list them on web site soon. Hi Butch, I've been following your project and may have a possible alternative to your iron wire requirement. Take a look at the various sizes of stainless cable that I believe is used in making fishing leaders (I'm not a fisherman so excuse my ignorance here). This cable comes with a vinyl covering and has magnetic properties although it will not be as good as iron. Availability would be through any fishing supply or possibly mass merchandizers. Just a thot, Jon Flickinger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 20 09:43:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01559; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35B36FF8.F0564DB8@harti.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:27:36 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: COOLING DEVICE References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hphd02.0.BO.l9tir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5339 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Charles Wilde wrote: > Recently received a catalog of misc electronics from Herbach and Rademan > (1998 - Issue 3). On page 27 are several Peltier junction devices that > can be purchased for $25 to $40. Act exactly like an ordinary > mechanical heat pump or refrigerator, exept it is all solid state. Feed > electricity in, then one side of the device gets hot, the other side > gets cold. > > Currently being used as supplemental cooling for semiconductor devices, > or for small refrigerators. Don't know how efficient these devices are, > they may use more electricity per unit of cooling than the ordinary > Freon gas mechanical units. > > Charles Yes, I remember that they have at maximum 25 % efficiency, which is pretty low, so you need much electrical power to cool something down... It was used in earlier times also to cool down CPU chip temperatures, to get them running faster.... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 20 09:48:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07551; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:38:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:38:29 -0700 Message-ID: <35B371DE.F4491973@harti.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:35:43 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "HLafonte@aol.com" Subject: Re: Look at this strange coil ! References: <171c9ce9.35b191d3@aol.com> <35B35608.58F81A8E@midusa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4vnRe1.0.vr1.5Atir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5340 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jon Flickinger wrote: > HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I have just uploaded unique coil design to solve flux path problem in my new > > design. > > It's the half copper half steel coil drawings on my site. > > Thanks, > > Butch LaFonte > > My site: http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html > > I would also like to thank all the people that are helping with this project, > > I will list them on web site soon. > > Hi Butch, > > I've been following your project and may have a possible alternative to > your iron wire requirement. Take a look at the various sizes of stainless cable > that I believe is used in making fishing leaders (I'm not a fisherman so excuse > my ignorance here). This cable comes with a vinyl covering and has magnetic > properties although it will not be as good as iron. Availability would be > through > any fishing supply or possibly mass merchandizers. > > Just a thot, > > Jon Flickinger Hi Butch,you can also try to look for garden fence wires ! I was jogging the other day in my local park and I saw this iron wire being used for a fence protection. It is about 3 to 4 mm in diameter and also has a green plastic coating. Should be available in good quantities ! Well, the real questions is: Can one get OU by having a permanent magnet beeing attracted to a steel or iron coil and produce electrical power this way, when the magnet flies into the direction of the coil ? Yes, but is this energy more than it would take to get the magnet mechanically off of the coil ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 20 10:41:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26881; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:29:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:29:50 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 19:29:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Mathias Bage X-Sender: mathias@al To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Re: Biefield-Brown effect real?? In-Reply-To: <01BDB35B.78F415A0.stk@sunherald.infi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id KAA26486 Resent-Message-ID: <"GEgly.0.zY6.Awtir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5341 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > All: > > Earlier today my grandfather watched the last part of a TV show on The > Learning Channel about Thomas Townsend Brown's 'electrogravity effect'. Do you (or your grandfather) have a video copy of the show? I'd like to buy a copy. > [snip] > Perhaps I should go ahead with my Biefield-Brown effect experiments... Yes! And try rotating the field too - just like Tesla, T T Brown and John Searl. [more on that later] > Kyle R. Mcallister BTW, it's spelled BIEFELD-Brown - Paul Alfred Biefeld, classmate with Einstein when they studied in Zürich, Switzerland. (feld = german for field, bie = who knows...) /Mathias From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 20 12:32:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03704; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BDB3E9.2E40EA40.stk@sunherald.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Biefield-Brown effect real?? Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:17:50 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"L1epT1.0.av.4gvir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5342 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Mathias Bage [SMTP:mathias@Stacken.kth.se] Sent: Monday, July 20, 1998 12:30 PM To: 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com' Subject: Re: Biefield-Brown effect real?? >Do you (or your grandfather) have a video copy of the show? I'd like >to buy a copy. Unfortunately, no, we didn't get a copy. If it comes on again, I will tape it though. >Yes! And try rotating the field too - just like Tesla, T T Brown >and John Searl. [more on that later] The biggest problem with my experiments is getting high enough voltage. I need to produce on the order of 300-500kV.Such voltage is not easy to come by. I think I will probably go with a large Van De Graff machine, since they are simple to build and give high voltage. There is another design I want to try also, A.D. Moore's Dirod design. I'll post my results. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 20 14:53:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA31181; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:45:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:45:12 -0700 Message-ID: <19980720214421.27286.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:44:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: RE: Biefield-Brown effect real?? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"gbsjh1.0.5d7.dfxir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5343 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle, This may be a dumb question, but is it possible to combine the output of multiple influence machines to increase the potential? T.T. Brown must have had this problem as well -- he was looking into 'flamejet generators' to get higher potentials. ---"Kyle R. Mcallister" wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mathias Bage [SMTP:mathias@Stacken.kth.se] > Sent: Monday, July 20, 1998 12:30 PM > To: 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com' > Subject: Re: Biefield-Brown effect real?? > > > > >Do you (or your grandfather) have a video copy of the show? I'd like > >to buy a copy. > > Unfortunately, no, we didn't get a copy. If it comes on again, I will tape > it though. > > >Yes! And try rotating the field too - just like Tesla, T T Brown > >and John Searl. [more on that later] > > The biggest problem with my experiments is getting high enough voltage. I > need to produce on the order of 300-500kV.Such voltage is not easy to come > by. I think I will probably go with a large Van De Graff machine, since > they are simple to build and give high voltage. There is another design I > want to try also, A.D. Moore's Dirod design. I'll post my results. > > == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 20 15:55:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09786; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980720224330.006b3a74@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:43:30 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: ZeroPoint/Overunity Devices Resent-Message-ID: <"GEbYP2.0.iO2.ldyir"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5344 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:36 PM 7/19/98 -0500, you wrote: I agree with Jerry 100% on this one.Get your name on the invention and the honours and money will come later.But it has to work first.No B.S. >Hi David! > >IMO, all of your concerns about WHY we don't have free energy YET breaks >down to one simple problem with some side issues. > >Basically, no one has demonstrated a working tabletop demo that others >can build independently to verify the effect. > >Whether that be in a kit or plans that by god work, when others can >directly experience the wonder of a working device, it will take off >like wildfire and the inventor will be bombarded with all kinds of >opportunities, offers and later awards for his/her sharing the basic >technology. That is why we had the shareware offer at; > > http://www.keelynet.com/share.htm > >Instead the inventor goes nuts and seeks big money to build an >overcomplex unit that fails to meet the inventors promises and the >investors expectations. That in addition to ego, power and greed, all >of which come into the mix, either singly or combined. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 20 16:10:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26211; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:05:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:05:29 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDB407.CB1D2EA0.stk@sunherald.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Biefield-Brown effect real?? Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:56:58 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lTjiX1.0.HP6.sqyir"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5345 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Anton Rager [SMTP:a_rager@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 1998 4:44 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Biefield-Brown effect real?? Kyle, This may be a dumb question, but is it possible to combine the output of multiple influence machines to increase the potential? T.T. Brown must have had this problem as well -- he was looking into 'flamejet generators' to get higher potentials. I don't know. Dirod machines (an influence machine) won't combine. Wimshursts and Voss machines; I don't know. It's possible. For the HV I need I may go with a Van de Graaf. I picture a VDG with a sphere 28" in diameter and a column 4 feet tall :-) That, coupled to a large Brown effect setup, might just do something. Hopefully, I can solve HV leakage problems on the device. Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 20 20:31:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00611; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:21:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:21:23 -0700 From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:32:28 -0400 To: KeelyNet-L@lists.kz Subject: Re: ZeroPoint/Overunity Devices Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Fred Walter In-Reply-To: <199807191746.NAA02598@surfergirl.spacey.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"We7WU1.0.S9.oa0jr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5346 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David, Many of us share your concerns. Hopefully, as is happening in the alternative medicine field, the Internet will help with spreading of some of the ZP/OP issues. But do have a look at the following: http://www.thegrid.net/ambatty/suppression.html To better understand the role/relationship between business, government and military, Gerry Vassilatos "HAARP WITH NO STRINGS" in the 3rd Quarter 1996 Borderlands is a must read. Chris Gupta At 01:43 PM 7/19/98 -0400, you wrote: >LETS FIND THE PROBLEM -- IT WILL LEAD TO THE SOLUTION. > >Could everyone please take a minute to post your best reason(s) as to why >NO zero-point/over-unity/free energy device has EVER made it out of the >lab, been put into production, and brought to market? > >History is replete with dozens of researchers stumbling onto what seems to >be essentially the same phenomenon, from Tesla to Newman. Despite the >fact that this technique is reproducible and even allowable under quantum >mechanics, no one has seemed competent to put it to use to generate >electric power. I'd like to know your opinions as to "Why?". > >While government conspiracies may well exist, the government can't deliver >mail reliably, make Amtrak run on time, keep Plutonium away from Saddam >Hussain, stop Cocaine at the borders, or do anything else well, thoroughly, >and efficiently. I find it hard to believe that it can keep free energy >suppressed for a century in the face of the economic incentive we (and >everyone else) have to develop it. Something else is in the way and I'd >like to know what the bugaboo is, for real. > >My Best Guesses: > >1. Is the effect not scalable to useful power levels because the local >energy density of the vacuum (aether, quantum particle flux, etc.) is much >lower than Feynmann predicted? If the free energy available per unit >volume of space is too meager, the rotating machinery approach will not >work for commercial scale systems. Its like photovoltaics; at a net >insolation power level of 250 watts/meter2, you will always need large >solar panels to do anything useful, no matter how good the cells get. > >2. Can nobody find an efficient way to convert the high frequency, high >voltage Alternating Current output obtained from all of these systems to >the simple 60 Hz, 120 Vac required by all of our appliances? Newman, and >the Correas, and RQM have all faced this particular problem, and had to >stop to go invent a power converter/conditioner to make their device output >useable; yet none have gotten past it yet. If the downconversion losses >are too great, free energy systems will not be practical, even if the >effect is real. > >3. Do the machines simply stop working as the permanent magnets run down >and slowly become demagnetized from the conteropposing torquing forces of >the opposite fields? Since you can magnetize a piece of iron by rotating >it past an electromagnetic coil via induction, there is no reason to think >they wouldn't become demagnetized in the same manner, when confronted with >opposite field polarity. This explains why all these devices start >working and then dry up and blow away after a short period of amazement; >perhaps magnets are just like batteries that wear down and run out. > >4. Are there toxic bioenergetic effects that the developers come to >realize only after some period of extended operation, which would make any >such technology unsuitable for widespread use? Does exporsure sicken >people after a while, in some form of [EM] 'radiation poisoning'? The >abnormally high mortality rate among free energy researchers provides >impressive circumstancial statistical evidence for this. > >5. Does the continuous extraction of energy from the vacuum/quantum >spacetime/aether have unforeseen environmental consequences at the >subdimensional level, for instance, allowing spiritual/psychic forces to >more easily ('too' easily) interpenetrate into physical reality from >'beyond'? >A home energy machine that brings with it its own haunting of the house >into which it is installed would find it hard to maintain widespread public >enthusiasm. > >Now, I'd like to hear all of yours.... > >David L. Wenbert >dwenbert@spacey.net > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 20 23:05:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16243; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005101bdb46c$832130a0$543cd6d1@martylin> From: "MartyDonna" To: Subject: My view tonight Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:57:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01BDB44A.FB249460" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"87qLP3.0.jz3.Qy2jr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5347 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BDB44A.FB249460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I took your advice & read up on the junk on science & all. Too be honest = it sounds like a bunch of people who have no ideal as too what they are = doing LOL They make up stuff to prove something & are totally lost as = much as we are. Reminds me of religion. You have the jehovah witness's = on one side (changes the law) & the jews (the theory is the only law) & = us on the other side , the nuts in the middle who want to want to break = the law. Everything has done been solved just takes putting all the = pieces together to make it work. But then if you do you get the credit = for it. Kinda kewl! My Electronics Web Page http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/ ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BDB44A.FB249460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I took your advice & read up on = the junk on=20 science & all. Too be honest it sounds like a bunch of people who = have no=20 ideal as too what they are doing LOL They make up stuff to prove = something &=20 are totally lost as much as we are. Reminds me of religion. You have the = jehovah=20 witness's on one side (changes the law) & the jews (the theory is = the only=20 law) & us on the other side , the nuts in the middle who want to = want to=20 break the law. Everything has done been solved just takes putting all = the pieces=20 together to make it work. But then if you do you get the credit for it. = Kinda=20 kewl!
 
 
My Electronics Web Page
http://personal.l= ig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BDB44A.FB249460-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 20 23:05:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16325; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:03:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:03:49 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <51c5f41f.35b42d65@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:55:48 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: LaFonte Archives on web Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"vlXs-2.0.--3.2z2jr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5348 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I have put drawings of all the ideas I have come up with no matter how crazy they are on a web site. I lost about 50% of them when my hard drive crashed some time ago. I do backups every day now. If anyone has kept a copy of all my drawing posts (on their disk or backup) please let me know. I have hard copies but would like to avoid having to have them scanned. If anyone finds a drawing on the site that they would like to know more about, please email me. Thanks, Butch LaFonte http://members.aol.com/LTDFan1/lafontearchives.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 20 23:44:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21451; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807210635.CAA15318@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: My view tonight Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:42:14 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OHFvR3.0.5F5.TX3jr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5349 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The people who first break the laws do it from their conscience, while they are still able to do so. Of course there are those that dont want freedom to begin with. ---------- From: MartyDonna To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: My view tonight Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 12:57 AM I took your advice & read up on the junk on science & all. Too be honest it sounds like a bunch of people who have no ideal as too what they are doing LOL They make up stuff to prove something & are totally lost as much as we are. Reminds me of religion. You have the jehovah witness's on one side (changes the law) & the jews (the theory is the only law) & us on the other side , the nuts in the middle who want to want to break the law. Everything has done been solved just takes putting all the pieces together to make it work. But then if you do you get the credit for it. Kinda kewl! My Electronics Web Page http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 21 02:10:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA05013; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 02:09:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 02:09:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:46:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Mathias Bage X-Sender: mathias@al To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Biefield-Brown effect real?? In-Reply-To: <19980720214421.27286.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xebnd3.0.FE1.mg5jr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5350 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Anton Rager wrote: > > Kyle, > > This may be a dumb question, but is it possible to combine the output > of multiple influence machines to increase the potential? T.T. Brown > must have had this problem as well -- he was looking into 'flamejet > generators' to get higher potentials. T.T. Brown was said to use a series of increasingly larger metal spheres to increase the voltage. In our case, the first (smallest) sphere could be a VDG. /Mathias From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 21 04:54:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA17617; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 04:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 04:53:01 -0700 (PDT) From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:45:23 -0400 Message-Id: <199807211145.HAA25391@centi.mks.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: old patents Resent-Message-ID: <"VK76Z2.0.BJ4.R48jr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5351 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My web-site is back up, at: http://www.u36.com/fred Under http://www.u36.com/fred/patents you'll find a bunch of old patents (mostly stored as .pdf files). As I find time, I'll be scanning in the patents that were mailed and adding them to my web-site at the above location. fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 21 10:48:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10689; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:42:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:42:41 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:42:05 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Look at this strange coil ! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"oB9UT2.0.sc2.GCDjr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5352 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-20 10:48:56 EDT, you write: << Availability would be through any fishing supply or possibly mass merchandizers. >> Jon, Thanks for the info. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 21 12:46:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08669; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:36:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:36:33 -0700 Message-ID: <19980721191621.23119.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [206.175.71.242] From: "Melody O'Hare" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Remove from distribution list Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:16:20 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"SXp8N1.0.N72.0tEjr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5353 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 5 22:22:23 1998 >Received: (from smartlst@localhost) > by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA10991; > Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:19:51 -0700 >Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:19:51 -0700 >From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) >Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 01:19:49 -0400 >Message-Id: <199807060519.BAA12294@centi.mks.com> >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Tesla US Patent 512,340 >Resent-Message-ID: <"69nrr2.0.ah2.sv5er"@mx1> >Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5181 >X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Precedence: list >Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > >A few days ago someone asked for Tesla's US Patent 512,340. > >I scanned it in and was going to put it up on my web-site, but my friend's >computer (which hosts my web-site) seems to be down. When it comes back up, >I'll be sticking it up there. But until then, here is the text portion of >the patent. (If you notice any mistakes, please let me know.) > >BTW, is anyone else scanning in/OCR'ing/PDF'ing old interesting patents >in their spare time? > >--- > >UNITED STATES PATENT OFFICE. > >NIKOLA TESLA, OF NEW YORK, N.Y. > >COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS. > >SPECIFICATION forming part of Letters Patent No. 512,340, >dated January 9, 1894. > >Application filed July 7, 1893. Serial No. 479,804. (No model.) > >To all whom it may concern: > >Be it known that I, NIKOLA TESLA, A citizen of the United States, >residing at New York, in the county and State of New York, have invented >certain new end useful Improvements in Coils for Electro-Magnets and >other Apparatus, of which the following is a specification, reference >being had to the drawings accompanying and forming a part of the same. > >In electric apparatus or systems in which alternating currents are >employed the self-induction of the coils or conductors may, and in fact, >in many cases does operate disadvantagely by giving rise to false >currents which often reduce what is known as the commercial efficiency >of the apparatus composing the system or operate detrimentally in >other respects. The effects of self-induction, above referred to, >are known to be neutralized by proportioning to a proper degree the >capacity of the circuit with relation to the self-induction and >frequency of the currents. This has been accomplished heretofore >by the use of condensers constructed and applied as separate instruments. > >My present invention has for its object to avoid the employment of >condensers which are expensive, cumbersome and difficult to maintain >in perfect condition, and to so construct the coils themselves as >to accomplish the same ultimate object. > >I would here state that by the term coils I desire to include generally >helices, solenoids, or, in fact, any conductor the different parts of >which by the requirements of its application or use are brought into >such relations with each other as to materially increase the self-induction. > >I have found that in every coil there exists a certain relation between >its self-induction and capacity that permits a current of given frequency >and potential to pass through it with no other opposition than that of ohmic >resistance, or, in other words, as though it possessed no self-induction. >This is due to the mutual relations existing between the special character >of the current and the self-induction and capacity of the coil, the latter >quantity being just capable of neutralizing the self-induction for that >frequency. It is well-known that the higher the frequency or potential >difference of the current the smaller the capacity required to >counteract the self-induction; hence, in any coil, however small the >capacity, it may be sufficient for the purpose stated if the proper >conditions in other respects be secured. In the ordinary coils the >difference of potential between adjacent turns or spires is very small, >so that while they are in a sense condensers, they possess but very >small capacity and the relations between the two quantities, >self-induction and capacity, are not such as under any ordinary >conditions satisfy the requirements herein contemplated, because the >capacity relatively to the self-induction is very small. > >In order to attain my object and to properly increase the capacity >of any given coil, I wind it in such way as to secure a greater difference >of potential between its adjacent turns or convolutions, and since the >energy stored in the coil considering - the latter as a condenser, is >proportionate to the square of the potential difference between its >adjacent convolutions, it is evident that I may in this way secure by >a proper disposition of these convolutions a greatly increased capacity >for a given increase in potential difference between the turns. > >I have illustrated diagrammatically in the accompanying drawings the >general nature of the plan which I adopt for carrying out this invention. > >Figure 1 is a diagram of a coil wound in the ordinary manner. >Figure 2 is a diagram of a winding designed to secure the objects >of my invention. > >Let A, Figure 1, designate any given coil the spires or convolutions of >which are wound upon and insulated from each other. Let it be assumed >that the terminals of this coil show a potential difference of one hundred >volts, and that there are one thousand convolutions; then considering any >two contiguous points on adjacent convolutions let it be assumed that >there will exist between them a potential difference of one-tenth of a volt. >If now, as shown in Figure 2, a conductor B be wound parallel with the >conductor A and insulated from it, and the end of A be connected with >the starting point of B, the aggregate length of the two conductors being >such that the assumed number of convolutions or turns is the same, viz., >one thousand, then the potential difference between any two points in >A and B will be fifty volts, and as the capacity effect is proportionate >to the square of this difference, the energy stored in the coil as a whole >will now be two hundred and fifty thousand as great. Following out this >principle, I may wind any given coil either in whole or in part, not only >in the specific manner herein illustrated, but in a great variety of ways, >well-known in the art, so as to secure between adjacent convolutions >such potential difference as will give the proper capacity to neutralize >the self-induction for any given current that may be employed. Capacity >secured in this particular way possesses an additional advantage in that >it is evenly distributed, a consideration of the greatest importance in >many cases, and the results, both as to efficiency and economy, are the >more readily and easily obtained as the size of the coils, the potential >difference, or frequency of the currents are increased. > >Coils composed of independent strands or conductors wound side by side >and connected in series are not in themselves new, and I do not regard >a more detailed description of the same as necessary. But heretofore, >so far as I am aware, the objects in view have been essentially different >from mine, and the results which I obtain even if an incident to such >forms of winding have not been appreciated or taken advantage of. > >In carrying out my invention it is to be observed that certain facts are >well understood by those skilled in the art, viz: the relations of capacity, >self-induction, and the frequency and potential difference of the current. >What capacity, therefore, in any given case it is desirable to obtain and >what special winding will secure it, are readily determinable from the other >factors which are known. > >What I claim as my invention is: > >1. A coil for electric apparatus the adjacent convolutions of which form > parts of the circuit between which there exists a potential difference > sufficient to secure in the coil a capacity capable of neutralizing its > self-induction, as herein before described. > >2. A coil composed of contiguous or adjacent insulated conductors > electrically connected in series and having a potential difference > of such value as to give to the coil as a whole, a capacity sufficient > to neutralize its self-induction, as set forth. > > NIKOLA TESLA. > > Witnesses: > Robt. F. Gaylord, > Parker W. Page. > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 21 16:08:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00578; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:02:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:02:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:03:03 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Biefield-Brown effect real?? In-Reply-To: <19980720214421.27286.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cX1qf1.0.n8.TuHjr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5354 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Anton Rager wrote: > This may be a dumb question, but is it possible to combine the output > of multiple influence machines to increase the potential? That should work. Dirods put out maybe 50KV at most, unless you increase the size. Stack them for higher volts (all driven by insulating belts using a single motor) > T.T. Brown > must have had this problem as well -- he was looking into 'flamejet > generators' to get higher potentials. I've always wondered if anyone messed with these. Just build a VandeGraaff, but replace the belt with a stream of hot gas, stick a HV electrode into the flame, then pass the charged gas through a bunch of metal screens as your "collector comb". It might look like a VandeGraaff machine, but with a metal grating at the top of the big toroid and a burner at the base of the column. Perhaps high current could be had, since the gas velocity could be made far higher than the velocity of any physical belt. Of course some people are sure that such a thing already is built into stealth aircraft engines. Wait a few decades, then buy an old junker from a surplus yard! ;) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 21 20:31:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19156; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:28:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:28:09 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Biefield-Brown effect real?? Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 03:28:27 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35b95bbb.15609622@mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MgMT61.0.Dh4.9nLjr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5355 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:03:03 -0700 (PDT), William Beaty wrote: [snip] >burner at the base of the column. Perhaps high current could be had, >since the gas velocity could be made far higher than the velocity of any >physical belt. Of course some people are sure that such a thing already >is built into stealth aircraft engines. Wait a few decades, then buy an >old junker from a surplus yard! ;) [snip] There was an article on them in Popular Science about 30 years ago. A unit that looked to be about 2 m long, and driven by rocket fuel produced about 1 MW, from memory. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 21 22:05:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA07927; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:00:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:00:38 -0700 Message-ID: <005001bdb52e$0ddc33e0$213cd6d1@martylin> From: "MartyDonna" To: Subject: It's possible to design a space ship to travel faster Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:03:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01BDB50C.845F1220" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"sALWR3.0.mx1.r7Njr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5356 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BDB50C.845F1220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable then the speed of light. How? I will give a rough guess here. Not good = at typing and rather have a bad memory but here goes. You will really = have to picture all this and read between the lines. Gravity! The one thing that nobody can really 100% understand. There's = theory's that explain it but they always hit a snag. What's the snag? = Big bang, the universe is expanding faster then it should, etc. Do some = research and you find lots of things that don't add up. E =3D MC2 & all = the rest is 100% correct but light isn't the all magic speed in the = universe. There's something else. Much Much faster then 186,000 miles a = sec. It's gravity. Think of this. What would happen if a planet twice = the size of the sun appeared near pluto's orbit. Would it take 186,000 = miles a sec for the gravity to affect us or would it take a lot lot = less?=20 What would be the result? Would we start being pulled toward it or pushed away. The problem is = that if you sit down and make all the calculations you could come up = with several different models or somebody else would. Which either means = that you beleive in total chaos or that there are laws that applies and = we don't know all of them? You really have to be open minded about this. But it's also a form of energy from a mass pushing away another mass at = very very high speed. The speed changes. Here on the earth we lose to = the biggest mass, the sun which has a faster speed. We are also being = pulled toward the larger mass at the same time. This is the effect we = can see & feel every day. We see the moon the sun etc. We can prove it = with experiments that the earth is making a dent in space. Light will be = bent by gravity, time changes etc. We still can't measure gravity = though. It's too fast. Not such a small force just too fast. If you ever = read that it's the 100000X less than a magnet. Actually it's = 100000000000000000X stonger but it's just so fast we can't detect it. = It's also pushing away. That's the accerlating force pulling you down. = Same as what you feel in a car. The car is moving at 500 miles a hour = but your against the seat. You couldn't tell if it's gravity or = accerlation. Same is true with you sitting here now. Your moving at a = speed from all the gravity that you feel the force pushing you into the = chair. But the force doesn't push you into the sky cause your falling at = the same time. Which is greater? the 1st instance. Go near the center of = the earth & you can prove it! You would no longer be falling into = einstein math but would be pushed away, 2nd instance of gravity! That = would explain the increase in speed of the universe expanding. There = will never be another crunch time again. We will all drift away into the = void. Being repelled once we come over the falling/curving force of 1st = instance of gravity. The 2nd instance is the push. There's formula's and = math for the 1st but not for the 2nd yet. If the 1st is stronger then = the 2nd then a black hole will compress the mass and everthing else that = gets in it's way.Until the 2nd becomes stronger then the 1st and bam! There's math here & logic, just have to add it all up! My Electronics Web Page http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/ ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BDB50C.845F1220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
then the speed of light. How? I will = give a=20 rough guess here. Not good at typing and rather have a bad memory but = here goes.=20 You will really have to picture all this and read between the=20 lines.
 
Gravity! The one thing that nobody = can really=20 100% understand. There's theory's that explain it but they always hit a = snag.=20 What's the snag? Big bang, the universe is expanding faster then it = should, etc.=20 Do some research and you find lots of things that don't add up. E =3D = MC2 &=20 all the rest is 100% correct but light isn't the all magic speed in the=20 universe. There's something else. Much Much faster then 186,000 miles a = sec.=20 It's gravity. Think of this. What would happen if a planet twice the = size of the=20 sun appeared near pluto's orbit. Would it take 186,000 miles a sec for = the=20 gravity to affect us or would it take a lot lot less?
 
What would be the = result?
 
Would we start being pulled toward = it or pushed=20 away. The problem is that if you sit down and make all the calculations = you=20 could come up with several different models or somebody else would. = Which either=20 means that you beleive in total chaos or that there are laws that = applies and we=20 don't know all of them? You really have to be open minded about=20 this.
 
But it's also a form of energy from = a mass=20 pushing away another mass at very very high speed. The speed changes. = Here on=20 the earth we lose to the biggest mass, the sun which has a faster speed. = We are=20 also being pulled toward the larger mass at the same time. This is the = effect we=20 can see & feel every day. We see the moon the sun etc. We can prove = it with=20 experiments that the earth is making a dent in space. Light will be bent = by=20 gravity, time changes etc. We still can't measure gravity though. It's = too fast.=20 Not such a small force just too fast. If you ever read that it's the = 100000X=20 less than a magnet. Actually it's 100000000000000000X stonger  but = it's=20 just so fast we can't detect it. It's also pushing away. That's the = accerlating=20 force pulling you down. Same as what you feel in a car. The car is = moving at 500=20 miles a hour but your against the seat. You couldn't tell if it's = gravity or=20 accerlation. Same is true with you sitting here now. Your moving at a = speed from=20 all the gravity that you feel the force pushing you into the chair. But = the=20 force doesn't push you into the sky cause your falling at the same time. = Which=20 is greater? the 1st instance. Go near the center of the earth & you = can=20 prove it! You would no longer be falling into einstein math but would be = pushed=20 away, 2nd instance of gravity! That would explain the increase in speed = of the=20 universe expanding. There will never be another crunch time again. We = will all=20 drift away into the void. Being repelled once we come over  the=20 falling/curving force of 1st instance of gravity. The 2nd instance is = the push.=20 There's formula's and math for the 1st but not for the 2nd yet. If the = 1st is=20 stronger then the 2nd then a black hole will compress the mass and = everthing=20 else that gets in it's way.Until the 2nd becomes stronger then
the = 1st and=20 bam! There's math here & logic, just have to add it all = up!
 

 
My Electronics Web Page
http://personal.l= ig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/
------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BDB50C.845F1220-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 21 23:14:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18305; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:08:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:08:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199807220608.CAA31697@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re; Marty?/Donna Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:36:47 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8OTGQ.0.wT4.L7Ojr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5357 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sir; perhaps your wife understands this big bang theory better than you do. You know they accused Einstein of plagiarising from his wife. But of course history is open to question. My thought on the matter has already been expressed. The acceleration of gravity is 32 ft/sec(squared) on this planet. If a foreign body approaches the planet at that acceleration its gravity will not accelerate any further. Of course I always stand to be corrected. Oh and by the way we grow exotic tomatoes here too. Got yellow Romas inthe garden,Dixie Golds , and Goldies (yellow version of giant Belgium) Sincerly mnorris@akron.infi.net. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 22 02:35:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA08555; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 02:33:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 02:33:47 -0700 From: mindtech@nor.com.au Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980722192829.0068be54@pophost.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:28:29 +1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Biefield-Brown effect real?? In-Reply-To: <19980720214421.27286.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"nPfXW1.0.W52.w7Rjr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5358 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >This may be a dumb question, but is it possible to combine the output >of multiple influence machines to increase the potential? T.T. Brown >must have had this problem as well -- he was looking into 'flamejet >generators' to get higher potentials. > It has been asserted that the final development was rotation. This may have been due to a gyroscopic effect or altered charge distribution upon the conductors. Seems to suggest a connection to Searle's levity disks. High voltage plus rotation. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 22 08:12:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08305; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:09:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:09:03 -0700 Message-ID: <19980722133642.18005.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 06:36:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: Biefield-Brown effect real?? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"YLHmx2.0.h12.F2Wjr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5359 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle, I still think the real challenge will be to find a test chamber that you can pull a stong enough vacuum on. Otherwise it could be an ionic wind effect. Don't get me wrong -- I would love to have my own little scooter.....regardless of whether it's graviticly or ionicly motivated! ---"Kyle R. Mcallister" wrote: > > All: > > Earlier today my grandfather watched the last part of a TV show on The > Learning Channel about Thomas Townsend Brown's 'electrogravity effect'. He > (my grandfather) said there was a man, possibly Marc Millis, at NASA's > Breakthrough Propulsion Physics project who said that NASA was interested > in taking another look at the effect using from 30 to 40kV. The man said > there may be something to the effect after all. Note: this show was > obviously produced after Talley's unsuccessful replication using only 19kV. > Talley's test was done in 1991. The Breakthrough Propulsion Physics project > didn't get off the ground until 1996. Anyone have any more info on this? > Perhaps I should go ahead with my Biefield-Brown effect experiments... > > Kyle R. Mcallister > Email: stk@sunherald.infi.net > Phone: 228-875-0629 > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/5257 > > == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 22 08:31:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA11652; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:20:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:20:54 -0700 Message-ID: <008701bdb584$bb389500$213cd6d1@martylin> From: "MartyDonna" To: Subject: That wasn't the question Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:23:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"2u-uS2.0.wr2.MDWjr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5360 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What would happen if a planet twice the size of the sun appeared near pluto's orbit. Would it take 186,000 miles a sec for the gravity to affect us or would it take a lot lot less? Would it be instaneous or take 1 millionth a sec. My Electronics Web Page http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/ -----Original Message----- From: Meat Truck To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, July 22, 1998 2:11 AM Subject: Re; Marty?/Donna >Sir; perhaps your wife understands this big bang theory better than you do. >You know they accused Einstein of plagiarising from his wife. But of course >history is open to question. My thought on the matter has already been >expressed. The acceleration of gravity is 32 ft/sec(squared) on this >planet. If a foreign body approaches the planet at that acceleration its >gravity will not accelerate any further. Of course I always stand to be >corrected. Oh and by the way we grow exotic tomatoes here too. Got yellow >Romas inthe garden,Dixie Golds , and Goldies (yellow version of giant >Belgium) Sincerly mnorris@akron.infi.net. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 22 09:13:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25073; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:08:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:08:42 -0700 From: BrianABQ@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:07:17 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: It's possible to design a space ship to travel faster Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"HdAGL1.0.h76.AwWjr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5361 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: That's something I never thought of but it's actually very interesting. But lets talk about application of that. How can we harness that power to make a spaceship go faster than light? Brian From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 22 09:16:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25743; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:11:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:11:39 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDB561.3124EA80.stk@sunherald.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Spheres for a VDG Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:58:07 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"L4o2h1.0.2I6.wyWjr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5362 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: Anyone here know where I can get a spherical object 30" in diameter (47.1" circumference) that I can coat with fiberglass and conductive paint to make a sphere for a Van de Graff? I tried finding a beach ball large enough, but no dice. I think a while back someone mentioned using a weather balloon, but where can these be found? Thanks, Kyle R. Mcallister Email: stk@sunherald.infi.net Phone: 228-875-0629 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/5257 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 22 09:16:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26032; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:13:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:13:17 -0700 Message-ID: <19980722153538.24909.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:35:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: That wasn't the question To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"qi2eJ1.0.fM6.T-Wjr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5363 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't think anyone really knows the answer to that. The question is: How fast is gravity? I wondered the same. gravity iteraction - speed of light? faster? instantaneous? magnetic interaction - any ideas on interaction times? speed of light? anyone measured it? This exact reason is why electrogravitic devices appeal to me. If gravity is near-instantaneous, then we have a mechanism for FTL communications. Probably creates a gaggle of other problems, but still a cool concept. ---MartyDonna wrote: > > > What would happen if a planet twice the size of the sun appeared near > pluto's orbit. Would it take 186,000 miles a sec for the gravity to affect > us or would it take a lot lot less? Would it be instaneous or take 1 > millionth a sec. > > My Electronics Web Page > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Meat Truck > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 1998 2:11 AM > Subject: Re; Marty?/Donna > > > >Sir; perhaps your wife understands this big bang theory better than you do. > >You know they accused Einstein of plagiarising from his wife. But of course > >history is open to question. My thought on the matter has already been > >expressed. The acceleration of gravity is 32 ft/sec(squared) on this > >planet. If a foreign body approaches the planet at that acceleration its > >gravity will not accelerate any further. Of course I always stand to be > >corrected. Oh and by the way we grow exotic tomatoes here too. Got yellow > >Romas inthe garden,Dixie Golds , and Goldies (yellow version of giant > >Belgium) Sincerly mnorris@akron.infi.net. > > > > > > == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 22 15:33:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26899; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:26:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:26:37 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDB5C8.4BEAAF00@que1-p11.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: It's possible to design a space ship to travel faster than light Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:45:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDB5C8.4BEAAF00" Resent-Message-ID: <"BANuP.0.8a6.SScjr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5364 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDB5C8.4BEAAF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Marty and all, MartyDonna wrote: <> Nobody knows, I'm afraid. But it's funny enough you chose Pluto's orbit = for your scenario. It was because of it's anomaly and GR's success in = explaining it that credit was given to the assumption that gravity = travels at the speed of light. It doesn't, however, prove it. <> I am sorry, but I can't understand you. Could you please explain your = ideas more calmly? It seems as if you're running to catch a train while = trying to explain the secret of the universe :-) I believe that a useful approach to this question would be to try to = devise experiments to measure the speed of gravity. Look in http://www.ndt.net/library/www_cd96/eth/exp_3.htm for an = example. Also in http://physwww.ilantech.edu.tw/physics/faq/grav_speed.html = you'll find an interesting discussion on this topic. 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Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:39:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:39:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BDB5C8.5209C2E0@que1-p11.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Re; Marty?/Donna Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:02:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDB5C8.52116400" Resent-Message-ID: <"-edWk2.0.7L.Zecjr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5365 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDB5C8.52116400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Meat, Meat Truck wrote: << The acceleration of gravity is 32 ft/sec(squared) on this planet. If a foreign body approaches the planet at that acceleration its gravity will not accelerate any further.>> It seems to me that if a foreign body approaches the planet at that = acceleration it would be precisely BECAUSE of its gravity and not ASIDE = from it. But, of course, I always stand to be corrected. Best regards, Antonio Vilela ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDB5C8.52116400 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IikXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAVAAAAUkU6 IFJlOyBNYXJ0eT8vRG9ubmEAbgYBBYADAA4AAADOBwcAFgAXAAIAFQADACMBASCAAwAOAAAAzgcH ABYAFgAyACgAAwBlAQEJgAEAIQAAADZFNDBBRDVCQjlCNUJEMTE5NUE5QkE5RTg3NDg1QjAzAFMH AQOQBgB4AwAAFAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkA QOuQyMS1vQEeAHAAAQAAABUAAABSRTogUmU7IE1hcnR5Py9Eb25uYQAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAAB vbXEyJCZV2niIawR0rb2REVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAFwAAAHZp bGVsYUBtYWlsLnRlbGVwYWMucHQAAAMABhCJEDjhAwAHEGYBAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABIRUxMT01F QVQsTUVBVFRSVUNLV1JPVEU6PFNOSVA8PFRIRUFDQ0VMRVJBVElPTk9GR1JBVklUWUlTMzJGVC9T RUMoU1FVQVJFRClPTlRISVNQTEFORVRJRkFGT1JFSUdOQk9EAAAAAAIBCRABAAAA7AEAAOgBAAAt AwAATFpGdbtCPAP/AAoBDwIVAqQD5AXrAoMAUBMDVAIAY2gKwHNldO4yBgAGwwKDMgPGBxMCg8Yz A8UCAHBycRIgE4iGNBQ8BrBzdGVtAoP6NRMNfQqACM8J2QKACoHTDbELYG5nAdA3DfALClcXUgwB FMBvFtBjBUBIDGVsGMAF0GVhdCwHCoUKhR1iIFRydWMoayB3HJI6Hbw8cykDAHA+H608HtBoZbog ANBjHRAEkB2AaQIgECBvZiAJwGF2ach0eSAEACAzEiABgIIvEfBjKHNxdQrAzQmAKSLwA6B0aAQA CoVFC1FuEgAuIEkjEGFjJAAFsGVpZwOgBuBk+SOQYXAcgQDQIgAEICVA/yIQJfQiIAVAJUAesSI7 I3DPJXYjNgPwHSAgbhygIig1IhFuI5BmCHAoQXIu+j4g3UkFQBHwFuAoIR1A/weAKRQGkCafJ68o vynIHzC5CGBsZDBgMZEZMGMEAAMdECOQQkVDQVVTfkUi8ipBIycAcDPgK7JBeFNJRDUwA1IqMSZQ Qn51HZAi8gWgCHAR8DfgSfEiIGx3YRawLoABkDZRny7xNAEFoTRBFtBkLh28rkIHkAVAGTBnCxFz HabOQQIwAiAiwCBWAxAdEL5hC0YS8hxZCoUYUQA/wAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwYCCyJsO1 vQFAAAgwYCCyJsO1vQEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAA5eM= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDB5C8.52116400-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 22 19:41:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23205; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:38:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:38:02 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:37:41 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: That wasn't the question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"g72C61.0.Vg5.98gjr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5366 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 7/22/98 9:16:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, a_rager@yahoo.com writes: << I don't think anyone really knows the answer to that. The question is: How fast is gravity? I wondered the same. >> While this might seem somewhat off-topic for freenrg-l it actually isn't. Consider two isolated "heavenly bodies" (binary stars, earth-moon, whatever). They rotate about their common center of mass. If the speed of gravity is NOT infinite each is accelerated toward the position the other was a short period of time ago (the time lapse determined from the speed of gravity). This creates a torque on the two body system and it increases its angular rotation speed -and energy!-- with time. You ask why not set up scaled down version of this with electromagnetics where we know the propagation velocity is c? One answer appears to be that the effect is too small to be observed for sizes we can reasonably build. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 22 23:50:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06014; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:46:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:46:52 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: That wasn't the question Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 06:47:12 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35c0d6db.112694096@mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XY-Jw3.0.uT1.Snjjr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5367 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:37:41 EDT, Keasy@aol.com wrote: [snip] >While this might seem somewhat off-topic for freenrg-l it actually isn't. >Consider two isolated "heavenly bodies" (binary stars, earth-moon, whatever). >They rotate about their common center of mass. If the speed of gravity is NOT >infinite each is accelerated toward the position the other was a short period >of time ago (the time lapse determined from the speed of gravity). This >creates a torque on the two body system and it increases its angular rotation >speed -and energy!-- with time. [snip] Ignoring the speed of gravity for a moment, what would you get with two charged spheres orbiting one another (one + the other -)? (Here we "know" that the coupling is electromagnetic, and hence travels at the speed of light). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 23 00:18:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10355; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 00:15:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 00:15:06 -0700 Message-ID: <010201bdb60a$049d7c80$213cd6d1@martylin> From: "MartyDonna" To: Subject: I think I lost the train of thought of what I was thinking about last night after reading this, been a rough day, working overtime. need sleep I think Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 03:17:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00FF_01BDB5E8.7C993F20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Y4BUZ1.0.eX2.wBkjr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5368 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00FF_01BDB5E8.7C993F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok gravity, will try to explain if possible what I was saying last = night.We are falling from 32 feet point a to b ground at a speed of c. = If we was on the moon we would be falling the same from a to b but at a = slower speed then c.On the sun we would be falling from a to b but at a = much faster speed.The distance from a to b didn't change. It's still = the same 32 some feet. The watch in you hand would all show the same = time (- the time difference for the speed you was traveling) but you = would hit the b's at different speeds. If the mass was big enough could = you hit the b at the speed of light? ????????????????????????????/ Nope because the thing attracting you the 1st instance is greater than = the 2nd instance so you would increase your mass because of the 1st = instance in reference to the 2nd instance you are relative too so the = mass would increase which would take more force 2nd instance to overcome = which becomes impossible.=20 Unless your mass was increased to something times the size of the massr = in front you. You would be then be pushed back untill a state of the 1st = instance was more then the 2nd instance. Then you set up a orbit. = Everything said so far makes sense but the junk about the 2nd instance = right? The 2nd instance is the force pushing away. Everything I or we see in = life is opposites. Black/white, -/+, falling up/ falling down, = electron/proton etc. There's always the opposite & some grey area's. = grey,nuertal,floating,nuetron, etc The 1st instance is falling down. The 2nd is the push. The grey is well = the stuff the people on here are doing trying to defeat it I suppose. = Could be tied into magnets & electricity who knows? Or into something = else we haven't thought of. Right now I'm trying to figure out the 2nd. = To shield gravity would cause me to ram thru the wall, into the tree = onto my neighbor's house etc. To shield gravity would also shield any = force's period. The earth's rotation, light ,etc from the outside = universe. If I could push it. Nothing would happen.=20 But to create the 2nd instance you could control it. You would only = float if you produced the force so that the 2nd is stronger then the = 1st. Not at 12,000 mile per hour escape velocity but at <1 inch per hour = to whatever escape velocity. That's where the speed of the 1st instance = of gravity is so imporant.=20 The 2nd is faster then the 1st .=20 The strengh of the 1st is stronger then the 2nd. The effect we can measure would be the 1st minus the 2nd which would = make gravity appear so small a force to us. Unless you look at the distance traveled of the two and the 2nd can = travel further with more stength attached then the 1st so the 1st = cancelles the 2nd at close range. It would also make objects like = galaxies expand from each other. Kinda starting to sound like waves. Not where I wanted to go with this = last night. The only way we could prove it would be to head toward the center of the = earth or zap a star twice as big as the sun at pluto's orbit and see = what the result's would be.=20 My Electronics Web Page http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/ ------=_NextPart_000_00FF_01BDB5E8.7C993F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok gravity, will try to explain if = possible what=20 I was saying last night.We are falling from 32 = feet point a=20 to b ground at a speed of c. If we was on the moon we would=20 be falling the same from a to b but at a slower speed then = c.On the sun we would be falling from a to b but at a much  = faster=20 speed.The distance from a to b didn't change. It's = still the=20 same 32 some feet. The watch in you hand would all = show the=20 same time (- the time difference for the speed you was traveling) but = you would=20 hit the b's at different speeds. If the mass was big enough could you = hit the b=20 at the speed of light? ????????????????????????????/
 
Nope because the thing attracting you the 1st = instance is=20 greater than the 2nd instance so you would increase your mass because of = the 1st=20 instance in reference to the 2nd instance you are relative too so the = mass would=20 increase which would take more force 2nd instance to overcome which = becomes=20 impossible.
 
Unless your mass was increased to something times = the size of=20 the massr in front you. You would be then be pushed back untill a state = of the=20 1st instance was more then the 2nd instance. Then = you set up=20 a orbit. Everything said so far makes sense but = the junk=20 about the 2nd instance right?
 
The 2nd instance is the force pushing away. = Everything I or we=20 see in life is opposites. Black/white, -/+, falling up/ falling down,=20 electron/proton etc. There's always the opposite & some grey area's. = grey,nuertal,floating,nuetron, etc
The 1st instance is falling down. The 2nd is the = push. The=20 grey is well the stuff the people on here are doing trying to defeat it = I=20 suppose. Could be tied into magnets & electricity who knows? Or into = something else we haven't thought of. Right now I'm trying to figure out = the=20 2nd. To shield gravity would cause me to ram thru the wall, into the = tree onto=20 my neighbor's house etc. To shield gravity would also shield any force's = period.=20 The earth's rotation, light ,etc from the outside universe. If I could = push it.=20 Nothing would happen.
 
But to create the 2nd instance you could control it. = You would=20 only float if you produced the force so that the 2nd is stronger then = the 1st.=20 Not at 12,000 mile per hour escape velocity but at <1 inch per = hour  to=20 whatever escape velocity. That's where the speed of the 1st=20 instance of gravity is so imporant.
 
The 2nd is faster then the 1st .
The strengh of the 1st is stronger then the = 2nd.
The effect we can measure would be the 1st minus the = 2nd which=20 would make gravity appear so small a force to us.
Unless you look at the distance traveled of the = two  and=20 the 2nd can travel further with more stength attached then the 1st so=20 the 1st cancelles the 2nd at close range. It would = also make=20 objects like galaxies expand from each other.
 
Kinda starting to sound like waves. Not where I = wanted to go=20 with this last night.
 
The only way we could prove it would be to head = toward the=20 center of the earth or zap a star twice as big as the sun at pluto's = orbit and=20 see what the result's would be.
 
 
My Electronics Web Page
http://personal.l= ig.bellsouth.net/lig/j/j/jjf/
------=_NextPart_000_00FF_01BDB5E8.7C993F20-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 23 01:05:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA15176; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:00:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:00:32 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Red-Leader" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:45:41 +0000 Subject: Re: Steel coil looks good (Reply from Butch to Emmett) Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <19980723014645.0736bd88.in@smtp.dabney.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"XTK5A3.0.1j3.Vskjr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5369 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > From: HLafonte@aol.com > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 12:09:50 EDT > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Steel coil looks good (Reply from Butch to Emmett) > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > I believe that all that stands between success with a true overunity > device at this time is the manufacturing of this wire. I will put on my web > page a drawing of this wire combination and post when it is uploaded. Let me > know what you think. > Regards, > Butch Finally got a chance to look at your webpage. All I can say is I hope it works! Had an idea for the wire so here's another one you can add to your list of sugestions. Welding wire that is used in MIG welders, is mild steel wire that is coated with copper. It looks about 22 gauge or so, don't know how fine you need it. The copper coating would increase conductivity so you might not have to splice copper and steel sections. It's not insulated but I belive you said you had a source that could coat it if you needed them to. Just a thought. Emmett From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 23 13:35:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04190; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:26:13 -0700 (PDT) From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My view tonight Message-ID: <19980723.134605.8239.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <199807210635.CAA15318@fh102.infi.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-22,24-28 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:44:02 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"KXl3l2.0.O11.Ynvjr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5370 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:42:14 -0500 "Meat Truck" writes: >The people who first break the laws do it from their conscience, while >they >are still able to do so. Of course there are those that dont want >freedom >to begin with. > >---------- >From: MartyDonna >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: My view tonight >Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 12:57 AM > >I took your advice & read up on the junk on science & all. Too be >honest it >sounds like a bunch of people who have no ideal as too what they are >doing >LOL They make up stuff to prove something & are totally lost as much >as we >are. Reminds me of religion. Did I miss something? What issue was this a reply to? Maybe I need to lighten up on the delete button. Steve PS You can post me privately if you wish. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 23 21:57:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16787; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:49:41 -0700 (PDT) From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: <199807240441.AAA09676@juliet.its.uwo.ca> X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:44:13 -0400 To: KeelyNet-L@lists.kz, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: National Fuel Saver Corp. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id VAA16766 Resent-Message-ID: <"zhYuY1.0.C64.Y91kr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5371 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This looks like may even work?? Has anybody investigated this? Any input would be appreciated. Thanks Chris Gupta http://www.nationalfuelsaver.com/ Boston- National Fuel Saver Corp. of Boston has developed a low cost automotive accessory called the Platinum Gasaver which is guaranteed to increase gas mileage by 22% while meeting all federal and state emission standards. With a simple connection to a vacuum line, the Gasaver adds microscopic quantities of platinum to the air-fuel mixture entering the engine. Platinum has the unique ability to make non burning fuel burn. With platinum in the flame zone, you increase the percentage of fuel burning in the engine from 68% to 90%. Normally that additional 22% of the fuel would only burn when it came in contact with the platinum surfaces of the catalytic converter. Unfortunately , the converter process takes place outside the engine, where the energy produced cannot be harnessed to drive the vehicle. But with platinum in the combustion chamber, 22% more of each gallon burns inside the engine so that 22% fewer gallons are required to drive the same distance. After Studying this process for 5 years the government concluded : " Independent testing shows greater fuel savings with Gasaver than the 22% claimed by the developer". In addition to government confirmation of its fuel saving claims , the Gasaver has received patents for raising gasoline octane, and has been approved for reducing emissions to acceptable levels. Joel Robinson, the developer, commented: " We've already sold over 350,000 Gasaver. To our surprise, as many people buy the Gasaver because it extends engine life by cleaning out the abrasive carbon deposits as buy it to increase gas mileage." National Fuel Savers is currently looking for distributors around the world ! Contact National Fuel Saver today for more information on Platinum Gasaver. Toll Free  1-800-537-7427 | Home | Case Studies | Ordering Information | How NFS Works | About Our Company |  | PRNews Wire | Keepin Track of Vettes | Easy Reader | Opinions | * Developed, patented and manufactured by National Fuelsaver Corp. Newton, MA. Web Page Design By Simple Solutions From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 24 00:36:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA09235; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:34:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:34:56 -0700 (PDT) Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Red-Leader" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 02:24:32 +0000 Subject: Re: National Fuel Saver Corp. Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <19980724022437.0c7ff94b.in@smtp.dabney.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"pev3a1.0.CG2.Va3kr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5372 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:44:13 -0400 > Subject: National Fuel Saver Corp. > This looks like may even work?? Has anybody investigated this? Any input would > be appreciated. > > Thanks > > Chris Gupta Never seen it before. I've seen fuel saving devices that work by ionizing the fuel to make it burn more completely but nothing that works by adding platnum. If anybody buys one of these let us know. It certanly sounds plausable. Emmett From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 24 00:57:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA23949; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:56:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:56:05 -0700 X-Internal-ID: 35B3967D00005DD6 Message-ID: <35B83E23.590ACC45@freeline.ch> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:56:19 +0200 From: Martin Schmid X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: National Fuel Saver Corp. References: <199807240441.AAA09676@juliet.its.uwo.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"keGS01.0.7s5.Lu3kr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5373 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All It's off-topic, isn't it? Well, the theme strikes my interest and I went looking that web site. The idea is really cool! You pulverize the cheap metal platinum and add it to the process. What idee! How much platinum do you need per 10'000 miles? Less than a kilo? The cheapest way to improve the burning processes inside a motor is it to add pure hydrogen and oxygen to the gas mixture to help it burn more easily. The MIT published some credible results about their Plasmatron, GEET did it similarly, though, less credible, Nelson Camus and many others also. Whatever their design and terminology, it all leads into the question "how can I produce hydrogen?". Regards Martin mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca wrote: > > This looks like may even work?? Has anybody investigated this? Any input would > be appreciated. > > Thanks > > Chris Gupta > > http://www.nationalfuelsaver.com/ > > > Boston- National Fuel Saver Corp. of Boston has developed a low cost > automotive > accessory called the Platinum Gasaver which is guaranteed to increase gas > mileage by 22% while meeting all federal and state emission standards. > > With a simple connection to a vacuum line, the Gasaver adds microscopic > quantities of platinum to the air-fuel mixture entering the engine. > > Platinum has the unique ability to make non burning fuel burn. With > platinum in > the flame zone, you increase the percentage of fuel burning in the engine from > 68% to 90%. > > Normally that additional 22% of the fuel would only burn when it came in > contact with the platinum surfaces of the catalytic converter. > > Unfortunately , the converter process takes place outside the engine, where > the > energy produced cannot be harnessed to drive the vehicle. > > But with platinum in the combustion chamber, 22% more of each gallon burns > inside the engine so that 22% fewer gallons are required to drive the same > distance. > > After Studying this process for 5 years the government concluded : " > Independent testing shows greater fuel savings with Gasaver than the 22% > claimed by the developer". > > In addition to government confirmation of its fuel saving claims , the Gasaver > has received patents for raising gasoline octane, and has been approved for > reducing emissions to acceptable levels. > > Joel Robinson, the developer, commented: " We've already sold over 350,000 > Gasaver. To our surprise, as many people buy the Gasaver because it extends > engine life by cleaning out the abrasive carbon deposits as buy it to increase > gas mileage." > > National Fuel Savers is currently looking for distributors around the world ! > > Contact National Fuel Saver today for more information on Platinum Gasaver. > > Toll Free 1-800-537-7427 > > | Home | Case Studies | Ordering Information | How NFS Works | About Our > Company | > > | PRNews Wire | Keepin Track of Vettes | Easy Reader | Opinions | > > * Developed, patented and manufactured by National Fuelsaver Corp. Newton, > MA. > > Web Page Design By Simple Solutions -- 4L GmbH Tel: +41 62 867 4000 Martin Schmid Fax: +41 62 876 3111 Oberzeiherstr. 1 > new e-mail address < CH-5079 Zeihen mschmid@datacomm.ch is obsolete From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 24 06:00:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA12961; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 05:59:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 05:59:06 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:49:21 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980724194746.0b6f73e2@pop3.friend.ly.net> X-Sender: geet@pop3.friend.ly.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Bob Colvin Subject: Re: National Fuel Saver Corp. Resent-Message-ID: <"EsPPt3.0.MA3.PK8kr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5374 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:56 AM 7/24/98 +0200, you wrote: >Hi All > >It's off-topic, isn't it? Well, the theme strikes my interest and I >went looking that web site. The idea is really cool! You pulverize >the cheap metal platinum and add it to the process. What idee! >How much platinum do you need per 10'000 miles? Less than a kilo? > >The cheapest way to improve the burning processes inside a motor is >it to add pure hydrogen and oxygen to the gas mixture to help it burn >more easily. The MIT published some credible results about their >Plasmatron, GEET did it similarly, though, less credible, Nelson Camus >and many others also. > >Whatever their design and terminology, it all leads into the question >"how can I produce hydrogen?". > >Regards >Martin > > Hi, As far as I know GEET is the only company that actually has a fuel processor for sale today and demonstrates it publicly all over the country, to make Hydrogen using plasma reformer technology. Our 5 kW generator is available now with larger models available soon, and car and truck conversions will be on the market in 1999. None of the others have anything ready or it is still on the drawing boards. Take a look at my list of links to other companies working on similar technology also. http://www.friend.ly.net/GEET/reformer.htm Bob + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Bob Colvin - GEET of MD/WI + + + + http://www.Friend.ly.Net/GEET + + + + geet@friend.ly.net + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 24 06:10:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA14060; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 06:07:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 06:07:31 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: National Fuel Saver Corp. Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:07:46 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35bb86e1.223323808@mail-hub> References: <1.5.4.16.19980724194746.0b6f73e2@pop3.friend.ly.net> In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19980724194746.0b6f73e2@pop3.friend.ly.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TsfZ7.0.bR3.JS8kr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5375 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:49:21 -0400, Bob Colvin wrote: [snip] >Hi, >As far as I know GEET is the only company that actually has a fuel processor >for sale today and demonstrates it publicly all over the country, to make >Hydrogen using plasma reformer technology. Our 5 kW generator is available >now with larger models available soon, and car and truck conversions will be >on the market in 1999. None of the others have anything ready or it is still >on the drawing boards. Take a look at my list of links to other companies >working on similar technology also. > >http://www.friend.ly.net/GEET/reformer.htm [snip] How does Dolphin Pulse Charge technology compare? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 24 06:13:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA15377; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 06:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 06:12:17 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: National Fuel Saver Corp. Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:04:44 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35ba85a4.223005956@mail-hub> References: <199807240441.AAA09676@juliet.its.uwo.ca> <35B83E23.590ACC45@freeline.ch> In-Reply-To: <35B83E23.590ACC45@freeline.ch> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"N3JeT.0.Am3.lW8kr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5376 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:56:19 +0200, Martin Schmid wrote: >Hi All > >It's off-topic, isn't it? Well, the theme strikes my interest and I >went looking that web site. The idea is really cool! You pulverize >the cheap metal platinum and add it to the process. What idee! >How much platinum do you need per 10'000 miles? Less than a kilo? [snip] I checked out their site too, then calculated precious metals consumption against current world prices. The cost of precious metals consumed is only about 7% of the *savings* on a tank of gas. (i.e. 7% of 22% or 1.5% of the cost of a tank of gas). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 24 06:12:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA14286; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 06:09:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 06:09:58 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:00:14 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980724195840.0b7f5ba4@pop3.friend.ly.net> X-Sender: geet@pop3.friend.ly.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Bob Colvin Subject: Re: National Fuel Saver Corp. Resent-Message-ID: <"o3FKM3.0.8V3.cU8kr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5377 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:07 PM 7/24/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:49:21 -0400, Bob Colvin wrote: >[snip] >>Hi, >>As far as I know GEET is the only company that actually has a fuel processor >>for sale today and demonstrates it publicly all over the country, to make >>Hydrogen using plasma reformer technology. Our 5 kW generator is available >>now with larger models available soon, and car and truck conversions will be >>on the market in 1999. None of the others have anything ready or it is still >>on the drawing boards. Take a look at my list of links to other companies >>working on similar technology also. >> >>http://www.friend.ly.net/GEET/reformer.htm >[snip] >How does Dolphin Pulse Charge technology compare? > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > > Hi, Never heard of it, do you have any info or a link? Bob + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Bob Colvin - GEET of MD/WI + + + + http://www.Friend.ly.Net/GEET + + + + geet@friend.ly.net + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 24 06:27:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA17871; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 06:26:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 06:26:19 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: National Fuel Saver Corp. Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:26:39 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35b88b68.224482967@mail-hub> References: <1.5.4.16.19980724195840.0b7f5ba4@pop3.friend.ly.net> In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19980724195840.0b7f5ba4@pop3.friend.ly.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gq9cr1.0.3N4.wj8kr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5378 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:00:14 -0400, Bob Colvin wrote: [snip] >Hi, >Never heard of it, do you have any info or a link? Sure: http://www.baat.com/pr010698.htm Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 24 17:58:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10070; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:54:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:54:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199807250055.UAA07438@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Intro and Question Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:48:11 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"A8MsI2.0.FT2.LpIkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5379 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am sort of new to this group so I should introduce myself. I use the handle "Meat Truck" because I am using my brother's computer and that used to be his handle on the CB. My name is HarveyD. Norris. I have my own ideosyncrasies like anybody else. Likewise I have my own obsessions about how free energy should be attempted . Part of being here includes listening to everyones ideas so we are here. I started on free energy in 1988 . My most immediate fascination was the copper magnetic motor envisaged by Newman. I took money and time to try and duplicate, but my efforts fell short of copying it. In fact,Inever even came close to free energy. But in my efforts I made what I consider to be real discoveries. Such as the fact that a polar-side field arrangement around a rotor could supply more torque than either alone. I made a video of this copper magnetic motor rotating est. 400 rpm@ 50 lb. magnet rotor. But those efficiences were far blow what ferromagnetism could develope. Frustration with commutator design and breakdown quickly ted me to Tesla's idea concerning alternating currents. How back a century ago he had moved a DC working model into an AC motor.. My immediate thinking became , How can this "Newman Effect " be applied to AC? That thought has sent me into another world ever since. I could go on with this train of thought to describe about the next phase of endeavor, which was the building of Tesla coils of big size and the superb mentality of Russians who think bigger is better. But I will stop here to mention that every classically designed tall tesla coil has another counterpart that can use the same spacing between wires, the same length of wire, and yet appear geometrically as a ring around that coil with IDENTICAL inductance. Now in the Colorado Springs gig the exciting coil seems to have been an outside ring and in the interior were coils that could resonate correspondingly to their length. Tesla notes that 3/4 wavelength works good inside and gives the best results. I assume then that this is the basis of the magnifier system which I dont always see being practicised by those advocates. I never got that fancy but I did construct an identical system in reverse. That is I excited a central coil and constructed a ring to see if the effect could work backwards. This seems to be true, even though the ring is mostly outside classical field-wire interaction. So my first question was: Does Colorado Springs work backwards? Sincerly in the work, HDN mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 24 19:02:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA21590; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:01:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:01:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199807250201.WAA18320@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Question#2:Browns gas. Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:54:15 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wS-dK3.0.FH5.gnJkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5380 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: G. Wiseman states to figure 1 amp conduction per 2 square inches of plate area. His design then entails 120 cells in series to produce 2 volts across each cell with 240 volts input, @ 3/8 inch separation of plates. Using that constant a 6 inch diameter plate model should encompass 28 sq. in. or 14 amps @ 240 volts. That would be 3360 watts. Yet that actual 6 inch diameter model is advertised as 1200 watts consumption. Perhaps George was in a hurry and failed to mention the contribution of ohmic resistance of all the cells in series. This could also contribute to the consternation of builders who worry about building too big. Just a note for anyone to consider: Sincerly, HDN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 24 20:19:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01648; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:17:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:17:31 -0700 Message-ID: <35B94CDC.69D1@keelynet.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 22:11:24 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet-L@lists.kz CC: danyork@iadfw.net, wwinters@texasonline.net, paijm001@wxs.nl, tbastian@dmv.com, Tebearden@aol.com, zumma@zumma.com, info@escribe.com, reed@zenergy.com, PiyushSaxena@usa.net, petkell@stc.net, psc@ont.com, pgb@padrak.com, mbking.ORM2-1.OREM2@gw.novell.com, knuke@aa.net, blackice@pavilion.co.uk, lloydpye@i-55.com, krscfs@svn.net, herman@antioch-college.edu, jcollins@free-energy.co.uk, john1@nidlink.com, ktyls@bluecrow.com, jmanning@axionet.com, pinegap@flash.net, hcurtis1@ix.netcom.com, Puthoff@aol.com, halfox@uswest.net, gresh@area51.fmr.com, geraldod@bellsouth.net, editor@infinite-energy.com, vman@skylink.net, stonierde@earthlink.net, danyork@iadfw.net, rivas@theriver.com, baldric@earthlink.net, hplus@nidlink.com, frolov@bcltele.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Don Lancaster's Latest Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EzdJC.0.gP.9vKkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5381 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Here is the October 1998 article by electronics guru and arch antagonist of 'free energy' - Don Lancaster. It lambastes most of the various anomalies as usual. I love it when he posts these as it will be that much more that he'll have to recant or revise when we do get a working device that anyone can freely build and test on their own. Now please don't fault the guy, like any sane person, he just wants a working device and based on what he understands as fact, all the claims thus far made are in error. I personally admire his approach though he does seem rather strident at times...the opening of the article is killer..please check it out...you will need ADOBE ACROBAT to read it which is downloadable from Don's site at http://www.tinaja.com/ http://www.tinaja.com/glib/muse129.pdf he jokingly says this should get the 'minions' upset...anybody out there want to write him?? He's at don@tinaja.com so feel free, he does seem to have too much time on his hands......and it will be fun to see his response... The sad truth of it is, he's right about no one having a working unit, except maybe Jim Griggs with his 130% 'hydrosonic pump' that Gary Vesperman wrote about...nice document Gary... Well, I'm saving up all his articles and taunts (nothing meant by that Don)...just for the day when I can repost them to him over and over and over when he actually tests a working o/u device that he built himself from freely posted plans on the InterNet and via snailmail to all the networkers and researchers....heck, that's what I think most of US WANT!! Seeya! -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 ICQ # - 13175100 / AOL - Keelyman KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 24 20:39:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16312; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35B95078.BA2@keelynet.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 22:26:48 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet-L@lists.kz CC: vman@skylink.net, halfox@uswest.net, Puthoff@aol.com, hcurtis1@ix.netcom.com, herman@antioch-college.edu, pgb@padrak.com, mbking.ORM2-1.OREM2@gw.novell.com, paijm001@wxs.nl, PiyushSaxena@usa.net, Tebearden@aol.com, rivas@theriver.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: The teaser (I couldn't resist..) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SYEDK.0.g-3.-BLkr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5382 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Here is a quote from the 'minions' piece by Don Lancaster as posted at; http://www.tinaja.com/glib/muse129.pdf "Finding a source of "unlimited free energy" would be one of the most HEINOUS CRIMES against humanity. The unavoidable consequences of turning the planet into a cinder would make Hitler look like Mother Teresa. Great heaping piles of free energy enthusiasts can be located on such fantasy forums as Bill Beaty's odd; http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/fnrg or else Decker's; http://www.escribe.com/science/keely Fortunately, ALMOST all of free energy pseudoscience boils down to labwork so mesmerizingly awful that it is NOT EVEN WRONG. To me, it sure is challenging fun to find out exactly where and precisely HOW they have SCREWED UP. The outcome is NEVER in doubt. Because accuratly measuring real nonlinear power or doing small delta T calorimetry can both be exceptionally difficult tasks. Worse, they'll almost always output deceptively HIGH when carelessly done. EVERYBODY ALWAYS fouls these up. At least on their first FEW HUNDRED TRIES...." ============= To quote the Highlander, "There can BE only ONE." but I don't think Don is it......we have to MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!! If nothing else for 'braggin rights' that we all knew it all along!! -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 ICQ # - 13175100 / AOL - Keelyman KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 25 04:42:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA11589; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 04:39:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 04:39:55 -0700 X-Internal-ID: 35B3967D00007840 Message-ID: <35B9C41A.186666FB@freeline.ch> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:40:10 +0200 From: Martin Schmid X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: National Fuel Saver Corp. References: <199807240441.AAA09676@juliet.its.uwo.ca> <35B83E23.590ACC45@freeline.ch> <35ba85a4.223005956@mail-hub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xGrL61.0._q2.AGSkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5383 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robin Tell me how you did that, please! A stage of a catalyzer is very long to assure that a maximum number of molecules can react on the surface. The manufacturers try to improve the process by structurizung the surface and/or redirecting the gas flow (eg Z-Flow). To achieve the same result inside the combustion chamber as in the catalyzer - the 22% they're claiming - you'd have to add the same number of free atoms to the mixture as there are involved along the catalyzer canals. How can this be quantified? The gas flow inside a canal assures that the converted molecules get moved avay to liberate the platinum for the next molecule. How can such a high relative speed between the catalyzer (the platinum atoms) and the gas be assured when both are in the same mixture? Normally you'd need a cyclone reactor with defined and constant flows. What mesures have to be taken to make the dosage of the platinum? What about the pollution? Free platinum is said to cause cancer! Don't take me wrong: I know that some things really work in a lab under perfect conditions. But I'm not telling a secret when I say that this is not the first approach to sell a miracle. Everybody who is willing to test it can replace at least 15% of the gassoline by water. No big problem. In the labs, they go up to 40%. Miracles ar for free! Nobody showed a unit that can do the process control under all real circum- stances, on existing engines, without causing any damage. All this is pure physics and nothing about free energy. So let's stay off the list with that discussion. Regards Martin Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > I checked out their site too, then calculated precious metals > consumption against current world prices. The cost of precious metals > consumed is only about 7% of the *savings* on a tank of gas. > (i.e. 7% of 22% or 1.5% of the cost of a tank of gas). > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk -- 4L GmbH Tel: +41 62 867 4000 Martin Schmid Fax: +41 62 876 3111 Oberzeiherstr. 1 > new e-mail address < CH-5079 Zeihen mschmid@datacomm.ch is obsolete From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 25 07:13:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06350; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 07:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 07:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980725233304.0087b9f0@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:33:04 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re:Changes at Solaris Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"C8rms.0.7Z1.rUUkr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5384 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Check out the changes at The Solaris Free energy site. Hopefully now it display better and a lot quicker. Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 25 07:20:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06843; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 07:17:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 07:17:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980725233731.00882c60@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:37:31 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: New articles at my Solaris web site Cc: danyork@iadfw.net, wwinters@texasonline.net, paijm001@wxs.nl, tbastian@dmv.com, Tebearden@aol.com, zumma@zumma.com, info@escribe.com, reed@zenergy.com, PiyushSaxena@usa.net, petkell@stc.net, psc@ont.com, pgb@padrak.com, mbking.ORM2-1.OREM2@gw.novell.com, knuke@aa.net, blackice@pavilion.co.uk, lloydpye@i-55.com, krscfs@svn.net, herman@antioch-college.edu, jcollins@free-energy.co.uk, john1@nidlink.com, ktyls@bluecrow.com, jmanning@axionet.com, pinegap@flash.net, hcurtis1@ix.netcom.com, Puthoff@aol.com, halfox@uswest.net, gresh@area51.fmr.com, geraldod@bellsouth.net, editor@infinite-energy.com, vman@skylink.net, stonierde@earthlink.net, danyork@iadfw.net, rivas@theriver.com, baldric@earthlink.net, hplus@nidlink.com, frolov@bcltele.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"oz4A-2.0.rg1.sZUkr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5385 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:32 AM 6/28/98 -0700, you wrote: I have added some new stuff at my geocities Solaris site Article that I have promised for some time A radio powered motor circu 1930 http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/radmot.html Bruce Perreault Radiant Energy Research Manual in html format by kind permission on the Author http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/bruce.html A project I am currently working on in ralation to the Swiss ML with photos of some of the construction http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/project.html Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 25 13:54:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23847; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:53:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:53:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:45:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807252045.NAA25711@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: jdecker@keelynet.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: The teaser (I couldn't resist..) Resent-Message-ID: <"B1rNH2.0.Vq5.nMakr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5386 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:26 PM 7/24/98 -0500, Jerry wrote: >Hi Folks! > >Here is a quote from the 'minions' piece by Don Lancaster >as posted at; > > http://www.tinaja.com/glib/muse129.pdf > >"Finding a source of "unlimited free energy" would be one >of the most HEINOUS CRIMES against humanity. The >unavoidable consequences of turning the planet into a >cinder would make Hitler look like Mother Teresa. > Yes he really thinks turing the earth into a free energy heat sink would be a sure heat death! Does anyone have a counter argument? Of course if random (thermal) energy were used, like in the Dragone paper, then there might be cooling instead! -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 25 15:51:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07125; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35BA5F7A.25CF86E1@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 16:43:07 -0600 From: Henry Curtis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The teaser More CO2 is not good either References: <199807252045.NAA25711@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7zEIl.0.El1.k4ckr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5387 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: dave dameron wrote: > At 10:26 PM 7/24/98 -0500, Jerry wrote: > >Hi Folks! > > > >Here is a quote from the 'minions' piece by Don Lancaster > >as posted at; > > > > http://www.tinaja.com/glib/muse129.pdf > > > >"Finding a source of "unlimited free energy" would be one > >of the most HEINOUS CRIMES against humanity. The > >unavoidable consequences of turning the planet into a > >cinder would make Hitler look like Mother Teresa. > > > Yes he really thinks turing the earth into a free energy heat sink would be > a sure heat death! Does anyone have a counter argument? > Of course if random (thermal) energy were used, like in the Dragone paper, > then there might be cooling instead! > -Dave If we continue on our present course of burning more and more fosil fuels and dumping more and more carbondioxide into the atmosphere an thus increasing the greenhuse effect thereby raising the temperature of the planet isn't so good for future generations either. We know this course of action is suicidal. In my oppinion free energy is better. Henry From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 25 17:06:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15300; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:04:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:04:54 -0700 Message-ID: <35BA7229.1961@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:02:49 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The teaser More CO2 is not good either References: <199807252045.NAA25711@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <35BA5F7A.25CF86E1@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"om5gh.0.uk3.aAdkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5388 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! With regard to Don Lancasters soon to be published newest comments on the free energy believers, Dave wrote; > Yes he really thinks turning the earth into a free energy > heat sink would be a sure heat death! Does anyone have > a counter argument? > Of course if random (thermal) energy were used, like in > the Dragone paper, then there might be cooling instead! > - Dave To which Henry replied; >> If we continue on our present course of burning more >> and more fossil fuels and dumping more and more carbon >> dioxide into the atmosphere and thus increasing the >> greenhuse effect thereby raising the temperature >> of the planet isn't so good for future generations >> either. We know this course of action is suicidal. >> In my opinion free energy is better. - Henry Something to ponder, some reported free energy and gravity reduction devices report cooling effects associated with them, perhaps due to an implosion effect that absorbs ambient heat. Possibly, experimentation with this new negative resistance might have a similar effect. Does anyone know what the correlation is of heat to electron flow? An electric resistance heater takes current and radiates it via infrared and slightly lower energies. Since these frequencies are 'heat', then the resistor material is somehow modulating the current on a molecular or atomic level where it serves as a molecular power oscillator tuned to the band of frequencies we refer to generically as 'heat'. I have read indications that 'cold' has a similar set of frequencies, but never have been able to find what they are, instead, what I have seen points to an opposite form of wave than we normally think about, a 'dark side' of nature. Of course, cold is the absence of heat so the normal condition of space IS COLD as a reference or normal background. In the case of Kowsky/Frost, where two men claimed to have used high intensity focussed RF energy to levitate an expanded crystal that is purported to lift a 1kg weight, they are shown wearing trenchcoats in the lab because of the cooling effect which appears when the levitation phenomena is present. My point is that at least one 'version' of free energy appears to involve some kind of cooling. Generally, compression means heat, expansion equals cold, leading me to think that the point of a tornado or vortex should be hot, but that isn't the case. Something odd here. Another idea that bears on this claim of the heat death of the planet, is the assumption that free energy devices will always be constructed as HUGE CENTRAL sites that distribute the energy to our homes. In my opinion, that WILL NOT BE THE CASE as the devices will be small enough to either power only one home or my particular preference, a 'perpetual battery' that each appliance will have, including your vehicle. It will extract just the energy that the device/appliance needs to operate and such devices will make any appliance operational anywhere in the world. Again, in my opinion, the singlest biggest thing that could be done RIGHT NOW would be for the development of an engine that burns hydrogen OR a fuel cell that produces electricity from hydrogen. The one common problem with both is the production of sufficient hydrogen for an on demand system, where you make the hydrogen needed to run a vehicle without having to store it. The compression of hydrogen into carbon tubules seems to be a way to safely store hydrogen, but I think most would rather just make it as necessary to keep the vehicle running. There are many working on this problem of sufficient volumes of hydrogen on demand, some are using WaterGas (Rhodes/Browns gas) mixed with outside air to produce the needed combustive pressure. The only problem with mixing the gases is water, that is why a new engine, ceramic or something, is necessary. The current heat wave that is affecting the country appears to correlate with the major solar flare that happened a few months ago. The earlier El Nino related weather changes involved moisture while this solar stuff involves heat...well, duh... Our options; 1) focus on water as a practical fuel which will reduce and clean up vehicle emission related climate changes 2) focus on hydrogen accumulation or production as above to feed fuel cells for electricity 3) use Boese's liquid nitrogen expansion or burning air as a combustive force 4) someone discovers and freely releases basic plans or kits to translate/convert energy from gravity or aether/zpe influx The greenhouse gases will clear up as we begin using these other methods of producing power. The sooner the better. -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 ICQ # - 13175100 / AOL - Keelyman KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 25 17:21:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17895; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:18:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:18:48 -0700 From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:18:59 -0400 Message-Id: <199807260019.UAA05772@centi.mks.com> To: jdecker@keelynet.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Townsend Brown Patent applications Resent-Message-ID: <"B7jVE1.0.PN4.dNdkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5389 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A friend sent me parts of two of Townsend Brown's patent applications: - the (forever) "battery" - the "petroelectrical energy" (from rocks) These are available as HTML on my web-site at: http://www.u36.com/fred/patents Anyone have the rest of the these patent applications that they could send me? Has anyone tried making a 'forever' battery as described in these patents applications? What were your results? (Voltage/current output, fluxuations therein, etc.etc.etc.) Anyone know of any sources for the referred to materials (tungsten carbide and carnauba wax)? fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 25 21:57:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA24014; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 21:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 21:38:35 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <61a4a8b7.35baac83@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:11:46 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Bad article? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"owuU13.0.4t5.4Bhkr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5390 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I found this article on the web, see if you are in agreement with the part about DC current not producing an electrical field in a transformer. It seems to me that during the time constant of the DC pulse, this would be type of AC current if even for a short period and in only one direction. Butch >Why do transformers only use AC current? The main reason a transformer only uses AC current is that transformers rely on changes in a magnetic field. The changing magnetic field around the primary coil is what produces the electric field. That electric field is what pushes the current through the secondary coil in the transformer. A DC current will not work because when a DC current gets passed through the transformer's primary coil, the coil does not have an electric field around it although it does have a magnetic field. Since the electric field is what pushes the current into the secondary coil, and since there is no electric field with DC current, no electric charges and in turn no power gets transferred between the two coils. Unlike the DC current, the AC current is totally different. When a AC current passes through the primary coil, the magnetic field in the transformer flips back and forth in its direction, this changing magnetic field generates an electric field around the primary coil. This electric field pushes the electrically charged particles, usually electrons, into the secondary coil. The electrons pick up energy and speed as they go through the revolutions in the secondary coil. The more turns in the coil, the more energy the electrons pick up. So if you triple the number of turns in the transformer's secondary coil, you can triple the voltage of the current leaving the coil. < See article at: http://www.wpi.edu/~kevski/ph1121.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 25 22:13:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA28073; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807260332.AAA23318@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: KeelyNet-L@lists.kz Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:31:52 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Inertia ? Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"hT6uU2.0.Zs6.cfhkr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5391 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Just a question : Consider a heavy wheel spinning free say at 3000 rpm. I have noted that if you apply a short duration load to the wheel, the rpm will be linear reduced during the load but will regain a little rpm when the load is disconnected. If the rotation is maintained by using a motor and applying short current pulses to the stator, we could maintain the 3000 rpm regime. Now we could apply the load also in short pulses, between the driving pulses. My guess is that with correct timming, the energy spent to maintain the wheel spinning at 3000 rpm could be smaller than the energy extracted by the load. Any opinions ? --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 25 22:20:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22331; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:18:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:18:03 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:18:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807260518.WAA26798@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Townsend Brown Patent applications Resent-Message-ID: <"fjmey2.0.mS5.Amhkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5392 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello all, At 08:18 PM 7/25/98 -0400, Fred wrote: >A friend sent me parts of two of Townsend Brown's patent applications: > - the (forever) "battery" > - the "petroelectrical energy" (from rocks) > >These are available as HTML on my web-site at: > http://www.u36.com/fred/patents > The battery sounds very much like an electret, but with a high mass density dielectric as well. I recently built a capacitor from sheets of aluminum flashing. They were spaced apart about 3mm with plastic at the edges and placed in a box, which was filled with liquid wax. The was is "container wax" which has some polyethylene added. A DC power supply of about 1800 volts was connected and the wax was left to harden. The capacitance is about 1000pF. When I connect my digital voltmeter with a 10 MegOhm impedance, I measure about 10mV. That is about 1 nA and 10^-11 watts. If I "load" the capacitor with another 5 MegOhm resistor, the output drops to about 3 mV. There was an article in Popular Electronics in the late 1960's (Yes the same time Don Lancaster had many articles it) about making electrets from pieces of lucite/plexiglas. I hope to find it again. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 25 22:27:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29611; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807260518.WAA26761@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: The teaser More CO2 is not good either Resent-Message-ID: <"DTnHX.0.aE7.Vthkr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5393 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:02 PM 7/25/98 -0500, Henry and Jerry wrote: >Hi Folks! > >To which Henry replied; >> If we continue on our present course of burning more >> and more fossil fuels and dumping more and more carbon >> dioxide into the atmosphere and thus increasing the >> greenhuse effect thereby raising the temperature >> of the planet isn't so good for future generations >> either. We know this course of action is suicidal. >> In my opinion free energy is better. - Henry IMHO the availability of energy is more important than the present carbon dioxide greenhouse effect. Although CO2 has been shown to be a greenhouse gas in the lab, in the atmosphere other gasses may play a much larger role, such as water vapor. In the last 25 years when the amount of CO2 has increased the most, an National Oceanic and Atmospheric Agency study showed that the average global temperature dropped very slightly. I have read that it has increased slightly this year, in line with solar activity, not CO2. Another question is what is the mean global temperature? Some claim that the earth's temperature dropped about 900 years ago, making Greenland less "green" and castles in northern Europe much less attractive. Bill B. has an link: in eskimo.com http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadGreenhouse.html But obviously we cannot dump an unlimited heat into the earth system, which Don L. says the final result of using any energy usually is. (less that radiated away). >... >An electric resistance heater takes current and radiates it via infrared >and slightly lower energies. Light too, for an incandescent light bulb. > ... >My point is that at least one 'version' of free energy appears to >involve some kind of cooling. Generally, compression means heat, >expansion equals cold, leading me to think that the point of a tornado >or vortex should be hot, but that isn't the case. Something odd here. Isn't there less pressure there from the Bernoulli effect? Is that how a vortex cooler works? > >Another idea that bears on this claim of the heat death of the planet, >is the assumption that free energy devices will always be constructed as >HUGE CENTRAL sites that distribute the energy to our homes. > >In my opinion, that WILL NOT BE THE CASE as the devices will be small >enough to either power only one home or my particular preference, a >'perpetual battery' that each appliance will have, including your >vehicle. Don't the end uses dump heat, whether it is generated locally or centrally? Burning hydrogen sure does. If the central plants + distribution are less efficient, they they will, of course produce more heat. >The current heat wave that is affecting the country appears to correlate >with the major solar flare that happened a few months ago. The earlier >El Nino related weather changes involved moisture while this solar stuff >involves heat...well, duh... -Dave > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jul 25 22:35:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA31471; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:31:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:31:41 -0700 Message-ID: <001801bdb856$fdd16a20$02000003@nim-machine> From: "Josef Katz" To: Subject: Re: The teaser More CO2 is not good either Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 01:33:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"JMrP-2.0.ah7.yyhkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5394 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wait a secend, if you had the ability to drag energy out of zpe/ether/aether/gravity/whatever, wouldnt that imply the reverse? ie, the ability to make energy dissaper? if so, than why couldn't there be both devices running simultaeniously. ie, if the energy killer detects too much energy in the enviroment (thermal, EM, whatever) it would just eat it up. so no way would earth become a cinder or a frozen wasteland, you would just keep both technologies running at the same time and there would be no problem. -joey katz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 00:27:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA08886; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807260722.AAA25556@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Bad article? Resent-Message-ID: <"Xhzly1.0.kA2.Bejkr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5395 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:11 AM 7/26/98 EDT, Butch wrote: >Hi all, >I found this article on the web, see if you are in agreement with the part >about DC current not producing an electrical field in a transformer. It seems >to me that during the time constant of the DC pulse, this would be type of AC >current if even for a short period and in only one direction. >Butch I think they mean the electric field generated by the changing flux. And during a step, as in switching a DC supply across a transformer primary, the primary current is changing, producing a changing magnetic field. Is this what you mean by a "DC pulse"? > >>Why do transformers only use AC current? >The main reason a transformer only uses AC current is that transformers rely >on changes in a magnetic field. The changing magnetic field around the primary >coil is what produces the electric field. That electric field is what pushes >the current through the secondary coil in the transformer. A DC current will >not work because when a DC current gets passed through the transformer's >primary coil, the coil does not have an electric field around it although it >does have a magnetic field. Yes, the induced electric field would be zero, both at the primary and secondary. > Since the electric field is what pushes the >current into the secondary coil, and since there is no electric field with DC >current, no electric charges and in turn no power gets transferred between the >two coils. Unlike the DC current, the AC current is totally different. When a >AC current passes through the primary coil, the magnetic field in the >transformer flips back and forth in its direction, this changing magnetic >field generates an electric field around the primary coil. This is what produces the primary counter voltage, which determines the net primary current and power flow. An electric field is also produced at the secondary, which produces the flow there. Any secondary current will change the magnetic field as well. The secondary isn't usually connected electrically to the primary (except in an autotransformer), so the primary current or charges aren't "pushed" into the secondary. This electric field >pushes the electrically charged particles, usually electrons, into the >secondary coil. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 03:03:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA15773; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:01:33 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: National Fuel Saver Corp. Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 09:54:00 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35baf73d.111226978@mail-hub> References: <199807240441.AAA09676@juliet.its.uwo.ca> <35B83E23.590ACC45@freeline.ch> <35ba85a4.223005956@mail-hub> <35B9C41A.186666FB@freeline.ch> In-Reply-To: <35B9C41A.186666FB@freeline.ch> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H45kU1.0.Ns3.yvlkr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5396 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:40:10 +0200, Martin Schmid wrote: >Hi Robin > >Tell me how you did that, please! Easy, I went to the web site (http://www.nationalfuelsaver.com/webdoc5.htm) , got the patent number, and checked the patent to see how much precious metal was used. Then I looked up precious metal prices, and worked out the cost of metal / liter of petrol. >A stage of a catalyzer is very long >to assure that a maximum number of molecules can react on the surface. >The manufacturers try to improve the process by structurizung the >surface and/or redirecting the gas flow (eg Z-Flow). >To achieve the same result inside the combustion chamber as in the >catalyzer - the 22% they're claiming - you'd have to add the same >number of free atoms to the mixture as there are involved along the >catalyzer canals. I admit to being somewhat skeptical myself, however they do have a few things going for them. 1) Catalysis is a chemical process, and most chemical reactions run faster at higher temperatures. The temperature in the combustion mix is much higher than on the surface of catalysts in the exhaust system. 2) Combustion chamber pressure is much higher, and volume much lower, which means that the mean distance between collisions is much shorter. 3) Higher temperature (faster molecules), and shorter distance to travel, means that the number of collisions / sec is much higher, so each catalytic site will be reused more frequently. >How can this be quantified? I guess they just measured it. >The gas flow inside a canal assures that the converted molecules get >moved avay to liberate the platinum for the next molecule. How can such >a high relative speed between the catalyzer (the platinum atoms) and >the gas be assured when both are in the same mixture? Faster molecules in the mix will knock others off the catalyst. This happens in a gas flow too, just more slowly. (Try working out the velocity of individual molecules at that temperature, and comparing it to the flow velocity - I think you will find that the flow velocity is negligible in comparison). >Normally you'd >need a cyclone reactor with defined and constant flows. >What mesures have to be taken to make the dosage of the platinum? See patent. >What about the pollution? Free platinum is said to cause cancer! A reference would be nice. I hadn't heard of this before. Particulates and certain hydrocarbons can also cause cancer. More complete combustion should lead to cleaner exhaust. [snip] >All this is pure physics and nothing about free energy. So let's stay >off the list with that discussion. [snip] A little physics on the list now and again does no harm, and maybe even some good. Besides part of the reason we are all looking for free energy is to help clean up the air and reduce greenhouse warming. The current topic contributes in that sense. (Energy saved is about as free as it gets :). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 05:20:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16497; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 05:18:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 05:18:17 -0700 Message-ID: <35BB1DDA.E92995AC@harti.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:15:23 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jedmonds@gn.apc.org, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tender for hospital CHP system References: <35BA4E30.2E21@gn.apc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OYJMC3.0.h14.9wnkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5397 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Julian Edmonds wrote: > I am shortly going out to tender for provision of a 3-400kW Combined > Heat and Power plant at a hospital in South Wales, United Kingdom. > > Can anyone tell me whether "New Energy Technologies" are actually > available for power production on this scale, and if so whether any > provider of such would be willing to tender for this project. > > Julian Edmonds > Energy Control Consultants Ltd. > (jedmonds@gn.apc.org) Hi, you can try the Grigīs water heat pump system, which has an efficiency of about 150 % and is also available on a big scale. Look into: www.overunity.com/movies and look for the MPEG movies with grig*.mpg in the name. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 08:04:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28507; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 08:03:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 08:03:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 09:55:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Inertia ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <199807260332.AAA23318@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uBtk6.0.Hz6.uKqkr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5398 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Marcelo Puhl wrote: > > Just a question : > > Consider a heavy wheel spinning free say at 3000 rpm. > > I have noted that if you apply a short duration load to the wheel, the rpm will > be linear reduced during the load but will regain a little rpm when the load is > disconnected. > > If the rotation is maintained by using a motor and applying short current > pulses to the stator, we could maintain the 3000 rpm regime. > > Now we could apply the load also in short pulses, between the driving pulses. > > My guess is that with correct timming, the energy spent to maintain the wheel > spinning at 3000 rpm could be smaller than the energy extracted by the load. > > Any opinions ? > > --- > Marcelo Puhl > mark@plug-in.com.br > The idea of applying a shorter duration load to the motor is the basis of a design by NASA to increase efficiency in some motors used in connection with the space shuttle. The design appeared in the Intel Microcontroller Handbook 1983. This design used an Intel 8022 microcontroller with on-chip A/D converter. I have been unable to locate a source of these critters, but since the Microchip PIC16C7X series has on-chip A/D converters, I have been thinking of adapting the code for the Microchip devices. Basically, it samples the AC voltage across the motor along its cycle, and when it reaches a certain point in its phase, the voltage is turned off for a short part of the cycle. They have reported considerable increases in efficiency but not O/U output. Of course, there could be a "magic" combination of rpm, mass and duty cycle which accomplishes this. I don't know. It's worth experimentation! Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 09:42:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18582; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 09:40:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 09:40:15 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <5246885e.35bb5beb@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:40:10 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Bad article? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"fUAIs1.0.GY4.klrkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5399 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-26 03:25:37 EDT, you write: << I think they mean the electric field generated by the changing flux. And during a step, as in switching a DC supply across a transformer primary, the primary current is changing, producing a changing magnetic field. Is this what you mean by a "DC pulse"? >> Dave, Yes, a pulsed, DC current, would produce a voltage/current in the secondary as I see it. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 13:10:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01502; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:01:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:01:49 -0700 Message-ID: <35BB8C32.783B2D7@inficad.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:06:10 -0700 From: Randy Carlson Reply-To: cei@inficad.com Organization: Carlson Kit / Engine Imports, cei@inficad.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bad article? References: <61a4a8b7.35baac83@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2Lolc.0.ON.jiukr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5400 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote in response to the following: >Why do transformers only use AC current? > The main reason a transformer only uses AC current is that transformers rely > on changes in a magnetic field. > A DC current will not work because when a DC current gets passed through the > transformer's > primary coil, the coil does not have an electric field around it although it > does have a magnetic field. Since the electric field is what pushes the > current into the secondary coil, and since there is no electric field with DC > current, no electric charges and in turn no power gets transferred between the > two coils. Unlike the DC current, the AC current is totally different. Seems to me the right idea, but not exactly the right explanation.... DC can drive, though not efficiently, a transformer. The idea is that electric current, AC or DC flows in one direction through the primary coil, this builds an electric field in the windings with the core. The problem comes in when DC only is used, the field winding builds a force that opposes the current flow and slows/stops the DC current (this is where the alternating current help by changing the primary coils electric flow). A study in coil hysterisis. AC works by changing the electric flow in the primary wire collapsing the electric field surrounding the core (of which the primary and secondary coils share a commonality with.) This collapse is what triggers the electron flow (current) in the secondary coil. So by allowing the primary coil to reach full/nearly full state of charge, then reversing the flow (or collapsing the field) will drive the secondary coil current. AC does this, granted at the right voltage/cyclic rate, very effortlesly. DC can do this, but the extra step of collapsing the field has to occur, either by using a polarity switching algorithm or load collapse scheme. You can apply a DC voltage to one side (primary) and allow the electric field to build, when you diconnect the primary flow (collapse routine) the collapsing field will cause an electric current in the secondary coil. An example of this can be seen in every day use by looking at the coil setup in EVERY car/truck/van/ etc... we drive daily. DC power, not AC..... The idea is to build a field, collapse the field. the windings in a coil, primary and secondary (or more) all using a common field (core) will all work, AC or DC as long as the theory is used. Thanks for allowing me to clarify this, Randy Carlson C.E.I. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 13:36:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07844; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:32:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:32:58 -0700 Message-ID: <35BB8F03.581E@microtec.net> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:18:11 -0400 From: Patrick Tremblay Reply-To: energeon@microtec.net Organization: Energeon X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: CINDER References: <199807252045.NAA25711@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <35BA5F7A.25CF86E1@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VoCBN3.0.Uw1.u9vkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5401 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HEAT, The problem is not all the heat that will come from our free energy systems: The sun will give us 4000 times more heat than all the free energy devices put together when they will be used worlwide. The problem comes from the Green House effect Gases released by the burning of fossil fuels. The problem comes from trapping a certain percentage of the sun's heat and not producing heat that will dissipate. -- Energeon, 7515 Jodelle, Laval West (quebec), Canada, H7R-5L5, FAX: 1-514-686-6083 PHONE: 1-514-962-1678 Patrick Tremblay energeon@microtec.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 13:54:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10794; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:52:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:52:32 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: The teaser More CO2 is not good either Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:58:22 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"0-ZpQ3.0.Ve2.FSvkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5402 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk made a comment about a month ago indicating that the impact of ZPE might not be that significant on the environment, considering that it will replace conventional sources: On Sun, 28 Jun 1998 22:17:09 -0700, Charles Wilde wrote: [snip] >One interesting question, is what would be the environmental effect of a >mass produced ZPE converter? If you were able to mass produce a device >that would generate 50 kilowatts of power (roughly the max power into a >traditional residence with a 200 amp main electrical service) for a few >hundred dollars, then the world wide market might be about 500 million >units. Fire all of them up and you would be adding something like 25 >terrawatts of power to the planetary environment. Wonder if that would >be enough power to have significant negative consequences on the >planetary environment over a period of years? As far as the amount of heat energy ultimately released, no noticeable effect. 25 TW continuous over a 24 hour period is 2 quads. The sun sends us over 10000 quads in the same time period. So 2 is just a drop in the bucket. Anybody know what a quad is? Charles From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 15:00:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21630; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:54:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:54:07 -0700 Message-ID: <35BBA50D.6C@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:52:13 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net Subject: Re: The teaser More CO2 is not good either References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mGjUE3.0.uH5._Lwkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5403 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Charles et al! On Sun, 28 Jun 1998 22:17:09 -0700, Charles Wilde wrote: [snip] > One interesting question, is what would be the > environmental effect of a mass produced ZPE converter? > If you were able to mass produce a device that would > generate 50 kilowatts of power (roughly the max power into > a traditional residence with a 200 amp main electrical > service) for a few hundred dollars, then the world wide > market might be about 500 million >units. Fire all of > them up and you would be adding something like 25 > terrawatts of power to the planetary environment. > Wonder if that would be enough power to have significant > negative consequences on the planetary environment over > a period of years? To my way of thinking, these ZPE converters would not be large units that revert back to the same old transmission of power through wires to power the device you want to operate. Rather, cut to the chase and just have a single smaller converter, rated at from 20Watts to maybe 3KW that will feed each machine or appliance ONLY. This way the heat is more readily dissipated (assuming there is any heat involved since most ZPE devices seem to have a cooling effect associated with restoring the local heat energy to the natural cold and high zpe/aether energy density of empty space) and with this method, the stresses on the ambient zpe are greatly reduced by a wider surface area. -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 ICQ # - 13175100 / AOL - Keelyman KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 16:03:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26671; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:02:22 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The teaser More CO2 is not good either Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:54:48 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35bcb2f6.159298491@mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"go04w3.0.eW6.yLxkr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5404 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:58:22 -0700, Charles Wilde wrote: [snip] > >Anybody know what a quad is? > >Charles A quad is 1E15 BTU. (BTU is British Thermal Unit). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 16:03:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01643; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:00:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:00:57 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:00:45 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Bad article? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"WCk6P3.0.bP.eKxkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5405 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 7/26/98 9:42:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, HLafonte@aol.com writes: << Yes, a pulsed, DC current, would produce a voltage/current in the secondary as I see it. Butch >> Yes, although it may be more accurate to think of it as a voltage pulse across the primary producing a voltage across the secondary. The voltage across the secondary (no load on secondary) is just proportional to the derivative of the current through the primary. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 16:10:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04602; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:09:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:09:04 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <5040b9d7.35bbb6f5@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:08:36 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Inertia ? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"Lq8mp1.0.q71.FSxkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5406 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 7/25/98 10:19:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mark@plug- in.com.br writes: << I have noted that if you apply a short duration load to the wheel, the rpm will be linear reduced during the load but will regain a little rpm when the load is disconnected. >> ??? If the power source has been disengaged this should NOT occur (for a balanced rigid wheel, no springs, etc.). Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 16:13:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27261; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35BBB557.10800CB7@harti.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:01:43 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list , Jean Louis Naudin , dave dameron , "mrandall@earthlink.net" , "mrand910@yahoo.com" , jdecker@keelynet.com Subject: Gravitational converter article online ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4YVPA3.0.tf6.SVxkr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5407 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, a new article from Dieter Bauer is online, which describes a perpetuum mobile invented by a 80 years old German inventor. The article contains: -exact blueprints of the realized apparatus -a physical analysis why this device can work -some further proposals to enhance and scale up the effect Get it at: http://www.overunity.de/gb/gb.htm Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 16:43:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12658; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:41:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:41:58 -0700 Message-ID: <35BBBE46.7D60@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:39:50 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: leoguitar@vossnet.de CC: freenrg-l , newman-list , Jean Louis Naudin , dave dameron , "mrandall@earthlink.net" , "mrand910@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Gravitational converter article online ! References: <35BBB557.10800CB7@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rlPQF.0.a53.6xxkr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5408 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stephan! Your post about the thermodyamic converter has a picture which could easily be dressed up to look like the drinking bird...eerie, ain't it? -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet Discussion List Archives @ http://DallasTexas.net/KeelyNet KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 16:59:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17209; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:57:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:57:37 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <93419056.35bbc262@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:57:21 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Web site updated Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"J6s9t1.0.pC4.n9ykr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5409 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I have updated my web site with new, more simple design of offset rotor that uses flux dividing to possibilty allow overunity effect. See tiltle, " most recent update" Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 17:04:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18678; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:02:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:02:25 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:02:09 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: oops! forgot web address Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"6ZUd52.0.lZ4.GEykr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5410 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My web address for update: http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 17:19:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25074; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:16:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:16:34 -0700 Message-ID: <35BBC636.DA19EB02@harti.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 02:13:42 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdecker@keelynet.com CC: Stefan Hartmann , freenrg-l , newman-list , Jean Louis Naudin , dave dameron , "mrandall@earthlink.net" , "mrand910@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Gravitational converter article online ! References: <35BBB557.10800CB7@harti.com> <35BBBE46.7D60@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hpwLJ3.0.h76.XRykr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5411 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jerry W. Decker wrote: > Hi Stephan! > > Your post about the thermodyamic converter has a picture which could > easily be dressed up to look like the drinking bird...eerie, ain't it? Well have a look again at Fig 6b in: http://www.overunity.com/gb/gb.htm I just corrected an error there. This is the "integral gear" which alone can work as a gravitational converter using 2 slightly different weight plates. The drinking bird is not simular cause it uses slight temperatur differences and is just a thermodynamic effect. The gravitational converter always works, not needing a temperature difference, just a gravitational field and here on earth the whole planet has this gravitational field ! Regards, Stefan. > -- > Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet Discussion List Archives @ http://DallasTexas.net/KeelyNet > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 17:32:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA31350; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:30:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:30:18 -0700 Message-ID: <35BBC979.6281C04@harti.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 02:27:37 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdecker@keelynet.com CC: Stefan Hartmann , freenrg-l , newman-list , Jean Louis Naudin , dave dameron , "mrandall@earthlink.net" , "mrand910@yahoo.com" Subject: More infos about the Gravitational converter References: <35BBB557.10800CB7@harti.com> <35BBBE46.7D60@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Fbjus1.0.Yf7.Peykr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5412 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, here are additional infos: The converter was invented by an German inventor, now about 80 years old during a 30 years period. Many prototypes have been build, but this last one was successful. It did run for 4 months contineously and was inspected by several university professors. Not one of the professors did sign a written declaration that they have seen this selfrunner ! They were too afraid loosing their job ! What a shame... After 4 months of contineous operation of the device, some sponsor wanted to have made changes and now it is in the state of "not set up" right. But it still can be shown the main principle. I will go mid of August to see the device and videotape it, which is located in this moment in Munich, Germany. The inventor already works to build a bigger device, which can have a bigger energy output ! The main secret is the integral gear which gives a 4:1 conversion of the introduced forces and pulls up the weights so high, there is always the center of mass lifted, when the cylinder of water goes down in the gravitational field ! So the whole unit can rotate and the principle rebegins every 180 degrees ! This thing can be scaled up to MegaWatts, if it is build big enough ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 17:57:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05715; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:55:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:55:20 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: "'KeelyNet Discussion List'" , freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: The teaser More CO2 is not good either Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:01:04 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"iVUFb3.0.6P1.s_ykr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5413 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Individual power units per appliance is a great idea in the long run. But would require replacing or retrofitting all of your appliances. In the short run, it might be easier to sell consumers on the idea of buying a box that they could ask the electrician to wire into the main fuse box in lieu of the connection to the power grid. They could then continue on with no disruption to their lifestyle. The only change would be no bill from the power company. New appliances might include their own ZPE power pack, and eventually eliminate the need for power wiring in the home. A nice idea! Charles > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry W. Decker [mailto:jdecker@keelynet.com] > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 1998 2:52 PM > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Cc: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net > Subject: Re: The teaser More CO2 is not good either > > > > Rather, cut to the chase and just have a single smaller > converter, rated > at from 20Watts to maybe 3KW that will feed each machine or appliance > ONLY. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 18:41:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07157; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35BBD812.5CD6@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:29:54 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet Discussion List CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The teaser More CO2 is not good either References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PVgdG3.0.kl1.ffzkr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5414 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Charles et al! You wrote; > ... would require replacing or retrofitting all of > your appliances. > ... The only change would be no bill from the power > company. New appliances might include their own ZPE > power pack, and eventually eliminate the need for power > wiring in the home. A nice idea! I'd toyed with that idea of local power converters but I must give the credit for thumping my head on it to an interesting fellow named Bill. Our discussions and his insights emphasized the importance and exceeding logic of such 'perpetual batteries' that had not struck me until we talked about it on several occasions. There would be no retrofit, just power packs you buy at the store and plug in to the appliance you want to run, piece of cake. As you say, a value added product would be to include such a supply in all new appliance, incorporating the cost into the device. What will be interesting is the tendency to design in senescence so that the appliance falls to pieces after a few years, thus requiring new units. For that reason, it would seem logical to just have power units rated at certain wattages, so that you could discard an old appliance and not have to lose the power supply. The trick will be to keep enough juice around to kick start the unit in the first place so that you blow a large enough hole/drain in the aether to fulfill the appliance power needs. Once it is going, you just tickle the hole to keep it open so that the aether continues to flow into the vortex in order to be translated to electro-magnetic energy to drive the appliance. That tickle power should be able to be supplied by the unit. There are claims that units that appear to be self-running must be supplied by outside power because the thing seems to go into a damped oscillation that quenches the flow. This happens when the output of such a unit is fed back, with the intention of keeping it alive, however, it goes into some kind of negative feedback loop or declining hysteresis that will soon kill the energy tap. For that reason, it might be necessary to keep an outside battery to create not only the initial hole/drain, but also to provide the tickle, then the output of the converter can be used to recharge the battery. Since each device is rated to draw a maximum wattage which it rarely does, then you might have one unit that has multiple settings so you could blow a hole to provide the wattage you need for that appliance. Like a universal converter that provides +/- 12VDC, 9VDC, 6VDC, 3VDC, etc...the main limitation would be the maximum power handling capacity of the components that comprise the circuit. All in all, I'll take about 10 of these individual, easily transportable zpe/aether converters over one main unit that provides 50KW. It's like have 1 million bucks or 10 million, beyond philanthropy, what in the heck would a person need with 10 million bucks when 10% of 1 million will yield $100,000 per year....ok, taxes leave you with +$80,000, I could live on that and do SERIOUS POSITIVE MISCHIEF with the extra......so why be power hungry, use what you need, no more. --- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet Discussion List Archives @ http://DallasTexas.net/KeelyNet KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 19:32:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA25359; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:29:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:29:12 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: The teaser More CO2 is not good either Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:35:04 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"Ge8OX.0.7C6.tN-kr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5415 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ahh, many thanks for the definition of the quad. More energy than I usually need, so had not run across the term before. Charles > -----Original Message----- > From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au [mailto:rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au] > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 1998 3:55 PM > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: The teaser More CO2 is not good either > > > On Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:58:22 -0700, Charles Wilde wrote: > [snip] > > > >Anybody know what a quad is? > > > >Charles > A quad is 1E15 BTU. > > (BTU is British Thermal Unit). > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 20:02:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14884; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35BCF565.137DF808@ihug.co.nz> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:47:17 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: leoguitar@vossnet.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: More infos about the Gravitational converter References: <35BBB557.10800CB7@harti.com> <35BBBE46.7D60@keelynet.com> <35BBC979.6281C04@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hvveG.0.Ue3.zm-kr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5416 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is working on an effect I discovered where a mass falls faster and is raised more slowly there is an OU effect. John Berry Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Hi, > > here are additional infos: > > The converter was invented by an German inventor, now about 80 years > old during a 30 years period. > > Many prototypes have been build, but this last one was successful. > > It did run for 4 months contineously and was inspected by > several university professors. > Not one of the professors did sign a written declaration > that they have seen this selfrunner ! They were too afraid loosing > their job ! What a shame... > > After 4 months of contineous operation of the device, > some sponsor wanted to have made changes and now > it is in the state of "not set up" right. > But it still can be shown the main principle. > > I will go mid of August to see the device and videotape it, which is > located > in this moment in Munich, Germany. > The inventor already works to build a bigger device, which can have a > bigger > energy output ! > > The main secret is the integral gear which gives a 4:1 conversion of the > introduced forces and pulls up the weights so high, there is always the > center > of mass lifted, when the cylinder of water goes down in the gravitational > field ! > So the whole unit can rotate and the principle rebegins every 180 degrees > ! > > This thing can be scaled up to MegaWatts, if it is build big enough ! > > Regards, Stefan. > > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann > Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com > Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 20:31:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08956; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:29:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:29:53 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: KeelyNet Discussion List Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: The teaser More CO2 is not good either Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:35:47 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"5zOOb.0.sB2.mG_kr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5417 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Good point. Conservation of resources is a mindset that can positively reflect into all phases of one's life. The "Economy of Life" if you will. Good reasons not to be wasteful of any resource, as the effects might not be seen until later, perhaps too late! Charles Hmm. SERIOUS POSITIVE MISCHIEF. I like that! Will definitely use that to explain to the wife about.... > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry W. Decker [mailto:jdecker@keelynet.com] > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 1998 6:30 PM > To: KeelyNet Discussion List > Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: The teaser More CO2 is not good either > > > All in all, I'll take about 10 of these individual, easily > transportable > zpe/aether converters over one main unit that provides 50KW. > It's like > have 1 million bucks or 10 million, beyond philanthropy, what in the > heck would a person need with 10 million bucks when 10% of 1 million > will yield $100,000 per year....ok, taxes leave you with +$80,000, I > could live on that and do SERIOUS POSITIVE MISCHIEF with the > extra......so why be power hungry, use what you need, no more. > --- > Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet Discussion List Archives @ http://DallasTexas.net/KeelyNet > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jul 26 20:52:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21723; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:47:59 -0700 (PDT) From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:40:05 -0400 Message-Id: <199807270340.XAA25128@centi.mks.com> To: leoguitar@vossnet.de, jdecker@keelynet.com Subject: Re: More infos about the Gravitational converter Cc: leoguitar@vossnet.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, jnaudin509@aol.com, ddameron@earthlink.net, mrandall@earthlink.net, mrand910@yahoo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"uI9HV.0.HJ5.jX_kr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5418 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From: Stefan Hartmann >Subject: More infos about the Gravitational converter >Many prototypes have been build, but this last one was successful. >It did run for 4 months contineously and was inspected by >several university professors. 1) has anyone else built one? 2) did he have a generator hooked up to the device? 2a) if so, how much electricity did he generate? 3) if not, was it because trying to drive a generator might have thrown off the device so that it stopped working? >The inventor already works to build a bigger device, which can have a >bigger energy output ! What was the energy output of the current device, when it was running? fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 27 02:00:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA18796; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:54:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:54:06 -0700 Message-ID: <35BC3F8F.2B495FDD@harti.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:51:27 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: Stefan Hartmann , jdecker@keelynet.com, newman-l@emachine.com, jnaudin509@aol.com, ddameron@earthlink.net, mrandall@earthlink.net, mrand910@yahoo.com Subject: Re: More infos about the Gravitational converter References: <199807270340.XAA25128@centi.mks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KDdCx1.0.cb4.j04lr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5419 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred Walter wrote: > >From: Stefan Hartmann > >Subject: More infos about the Gravitational converter > >Many prototypes have been build, but this last one was successful. > >It did run for 4 months contineously and was inspected by > >several university professors. > > 1) has anyone else built one? Some other German visitors want to build one. > 2) did he have a generator hooked up to the device? Not yet, I bet.. I will ask him. > 2a) if so, how much electricity did he generate? He just showed the selfrunner effect for 4 months. > 3) if not, was it because trying to drive a generator might have > thrown off the device so that it stopped working? > Well, a small generator could probably have been powered, I guess.I just will ask him, if the mechanical setup would allow this in his current device. > >The inventor already works to build a bigger device, which can have a > >bigger energy output ! > > What was the energy output of the current device, when it was running? > One could calculate this via the torque it produced. > fred Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 27 06:07:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21464; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 06:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 06:05:44 -0700 (PDT) From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The teaser (I couldn't resist..) Message-ID: <19980727.085903.8239.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <199807252045.NAA25711@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-4,8-9,12,15-17 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 08:57:13 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"kabiL1.0.IF5.ci7lr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5420 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:45:22 -0700 (PDT) dave dameron writes: > Does anyone have a counter argument? Here's one. The vast majority of our energy is from fossil fuels. In a sense, we have released the energy that was captured (by plant life) and stored over millennium in a geologically very short time...yet any enviromental impact is from the emissions, not the heat itself. Also consider the inefficiencies of the internal combustion engine, and all the resistive losses (ie, heat) from transmitting energy long distances using wires. All of this would also be gone, in fact, most of the world could be brought up to Western standards with, without much change in the amount of waste heat added to the environment. Steve Heckman _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 27 11:55:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16452; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:52:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:52:10 -0700 From: seagul1@voicenet.com Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980727122431.007c5bc0@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: seagul1@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:24:31 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The teaser (I couldn't resist..) In-Reply-To: <19980727.085903.8239.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <199807252045.NAA25711@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"LrdRs2.0.-04.PnClr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5421 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:57 AM 7/27/98 EDT, you wrote: > >On Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:45:22 -0700 (PDT) dave dameron > writes: >> Does anyone have a counter argument? > >Here's one. The vast majority of our energy is from fossil fuels. In a >sense, we have released the energy that was captured (by plant life) and >stored over millennium in a geologically very short time...yet any >enviromental impact is from the emissions, not the heat itself. > >Also consider the inefficiencies of the internal combustion engine, and >all the resistive losses (ie, heat) from transmitting energy long >distances using wires. >All of this would also be gone, in fact, most of the world could be >brought up to Western standards with, without much change in the amount >of waste heat added to the environment. > >Steve Heckman Hello Steve...I'm new to the list..name's Stefan (USA variety)...I think you forgot to include a statement ( else...I missed it ) of argument to your propositions...as in the 'what' that w/could allow such a swich-over to bring energy production up to Wesrten standards? Stefan >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 27 14:45:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23749; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:39:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:39:38 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:36:57 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: 35 drawings added to LaFonte archives Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"5qdKu1.0.wo5.PEFlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5422 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, Thanks to a list member, Marcelo Puhl, 35 drawings have been added to the LaFonte archives. The address is : http://members.aol.com/LTDFan1/lafontearchives.html Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 27 14:47:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24203; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:41:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:41:11 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDB99F.138D2E00@que1-p3.telepac.pt> From: Isabel Alegria To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Bad article? Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:42:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDB99F.138D2E00" Resent-Message-ID: <"y46rX2.0.tv5.rFFlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5423 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDB99F.138D2E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I believe that talking of AC or DC is somewhat restrictive. It should be = sufficient to say that time-varying potentials applied to the primary will induce corresponding time varying potentials on the secondary. Bearing in mind, = of course the fundamental mechanism. Regards, Ant=F3nio Vilela ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDB99F.138D2E00 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ih8UAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQARAAAAUkU6 IEJhZCBhcnRpY2xlPwA7BQEFgAMADgAAAM4HBwAbABQAKgAbAAEAUQEBIIADAA4AAADOBwcAGwAU ACQAKwABAFsBAQmAAQAhAAAANENERjFGNjI5QUI5QkQxMTk1QTlCQTlFODc0ODVCMDMAWwcBA5AG APgCAAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDgKeYQ n7m9AR4AcAABAAAAEQAAAFJFOiBCYWQgYXJ0aWNsZT8AAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb25nxDen8oI wSWNEdK29tWQb2jyQAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABcAAAB2aWxlbGFAbWFp bC50ZWxlcGFjLnB0AAADAAYQ27QkHAMABxDyAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASUJFTElFVkVUSEFUVEFM S0lOR09GQUNPUkRDSVNTT01FV0hBVFJFU1RSSUNUSVZFSVRTSE9VTERCRVNVRkZJQ0lFTlRUT1NB WVRIQVRUSU1FLVZBUllJTkdQT1RFTlRJQUxTQQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAG8BAABrAQAABwIAAExaRnVF xyWE/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzIDxgcTAoD+fQqACM8J2QKA CoENsQtg9G5nAdA3DfALChLyAdBAIEkgYmVsCJB2OGUgdBHABUABkGxroQuAZyBvZhNwQxmAzQXA RBnQBAAgcwNwB9ATGNIU0HN0BRBjdGlNGJAuGBAFQHNoCGBs9mQYMRpwdQ3QG2AIkAIwyQqFdG8a cGF5GLUHcRQtdgrAeRlScG905x0hBzEEIGFwC1AIkBxgdx3BGMAYoHAFEADAHvAgDQPwbAMgC4Bk dWNlfwqFBaEbER9QIdAZUh6CIP8e3wQgAiAgoxHwBaAh0CPRORvAQmUKwBlSC4AgbX0hwSwZgSIn CHAR8CCjZv51JaEHgAIwB0AmsAWQEcAxAwBzbS4KhQqFUmVSZwsRcywKhUECMFzYJ2YzAwAd0FYD EBhQFmEqJhPxAC1gAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwwEzUQ565vQFAAAgwwEzUQ565vQEeAD0A AQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAYME= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDB99F.138D2E00-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 27 15:13:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08546; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:10:58 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <24d34c79.35bcf88c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:00:43 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re:Re: Bad article?(António) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"SzPw51.0.O52.lhFlr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5424 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-27 17:46:34 EDT, you write: << I believe that talking of AC or DC is somewhat restrictive. It should be sufficient to say that time-varying potentials applied to the primary will induce corresponding time varying potentials on the secondary. Bearing in mind, of course the fundamental mechanism. >> António, I think that what you have stated, is exactly what was missing from the article. You have a way of explaining complicated things in a way that is easy to understand. Thanks for the input. Regards, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 27 17:37:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02642; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:33:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:33:16 -0700 Message-ID: <35BD1BAD.467D560B@harti.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 02:30:37 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 35 drawings added to LaFonte archives References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xsn063.0.Bf.CnHlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5425 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > Hi all, > Thanks to a list member, Marcelo Puhl, 35 drawings have been added to the > LaFonte archives. The address is : > http://members.aol.com/LTDFan1/lafontearchives.html > Thanks, > Butch LaFonte Hi Butch, for not to crash Netscape having to display all the 35 graphics on ONE page, better divide the page into 35 single HTM pages and put one graphic on each page with a small description, what it should be, if it was tested or not and if it failed or not... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 27 17:47:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05619; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:42:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:42:51 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <679605ce.35bd1e1c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:40:46 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: 35 drawings added to LaFonte archives] Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_901586457_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"1bbAv3.0.XN1.AwHlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5426 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_901586457_boundary Content-ID: <0_901586457@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_901586457_boundary Content-ID: <0_901586457@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: HLafonte@aol.com Return-path: To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Subject: Re: [Fwd: 35 drawings added to LaFonte archives] Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:39:15 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-07-27 20:34:10 EDT, you write: << Hi Butch, for not to crash Netscape having to display all the 35 graphics on ONE page, better divide the page into 35 single HTM pages and put one graphic on each page with a small description, what it should be, if it was tested or not and if it failed or not... Regards, Stefan. >> Stefan, I will do this, the problem is, I don't at the moment know how. I will try to get some help here local. Thanks, Butch --part0_901586457_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 27 18:43:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA17582; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:39:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:39:58 -0700 Message-ID: <35BD2AA5.AC77C1F@darknet.net> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 21:34:29 -0400 From: Steve Organization: DarkNet Online/Digital Fusion X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fwd: [Fwd: 35 drawings added to LaFonte archives] References: <679605ce.35bd1e1c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"urZC43.0.LI4.glIlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5427 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>for not to crash Netscape having to display all the 35 graphics on ONE >>page, better divide the page into 35 single HTM pages and put one >>graphic on each page with a small description, >>what it should be, if it was tested or not and if it failed or not... > I will do this, the problem is, I don't at the moment know how. > I will try to get some help here local. Hi all, For the past 3 years I've been doing internet work, and could probably help with whatever questions some of you might have regarding web pages.. Also, if anyone would be interested in a basic web site interface to help make their page more organized, reply to me privately and I might be able to help! For example, with Butch's site, there could be a simple menu with the options Stefan mentioned, and on each of the pages in each section, there could be a "next page" or "previous page", making the page easy to navigate.. Just some thoughts.. ttyl -Steve -- darklord@darknet.net | UIN: 5113616 DarkNet Online: http://www.darknet.net Digital Fusion: http://www.darknet.net/fusion From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 27 20:12:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12401; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:10:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:10:31 -0700 (PDT) From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 23:02:41 -0400 Message-Id: <199807280302.XAA06165@centi.mks.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Don Smith Space Energy Device Resent-Message-ID: <"yV1lg3.0.f13.Z4Klr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5428 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In one of Don Smith's papers he refers to the book "Direct Energy Conversion" by Stanley Angrist. This is a 488 page book directed towards engineers. Sadly, I'm not an engineer. I do have an applied math background, but that was years ago... I've borrowed this book from a library via inter-library loan, and I need to return it sometime soon, and I don't want to wade through all of it, just through the parts that relate to Don Smith's "space energy device". Does anyone know which section(s) of this book are the most relevant? Thanx, fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 27 23:05:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21549; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 23:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 23:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807280554.BAA11866@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Don Smith Space Energy Device Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 18:00:26 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lnv_D.0.cG5.cbMlr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5429 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: Fred Walter > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Don Smith Space Energy Device > Date: Monday, July 27, 1998 10:02 PM > > In one of Don Smith's papers he refers to the book "Direct Energy Conversion" > by Stanley Angrist. This is a 488 page book directed towards engineers. > Sadly, I'm not an engineer. I do have an applied math background, > but that was years ago... > > I've borrowed this book from a library via inter-library loan, and I need > to return it sometime soon, and I don't want to wade through all of it, > just through the parts that relate to Don Smith's "space energy device". > Does anyone know which section(s) of this book are the most relevant? > I would venture to assume that devices of this small magnitude are of themselves irrelevant. > Thanx, > fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jul 27 23:14:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01045; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 23:08:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 23:08:05 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Red-Leader" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 01:07:00 +0000 Subject: Re: Inertia ? Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: <19980728010705.20d337ec.in@smtp.dabney.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"CMrMZ3.0.FG.5hMlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5430 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > From: "Marcelo Puhl" > Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:31:52 -3 > Subject: Inertia ? > > Just a question : > > Consider a heavy wheel spinning free say at 3000 rpm. > > I have noted that if you apply a short duration load to the wheel, the rpm will > be linear reduced during the load but will regain a little rpm when the load is > disconnected. > > If the rotation is maintained by using a motor and applying short current > pulses to the stator, we could maintain the 3000 rpm regime. > > Now we could apply the load also in short pulses, between the driving pulses. > > My guess is that with correct timming, the energy spent to maintain the wheel > spinning at 3000 rpm could be smaller than the energy extracted by the load. > > Any opinions ? > > --- > Marcelo Puhl > mark@plug-in.com.br Sounds exactly like the work Bedini was doing with his generator, pulsing the motor and the electrical generator load. Bill B. has a link to his site, might want to check it out. Emmett From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 01:54:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA15968; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 01:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 01:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BDB9D1.81C64500@ts011d13.den-co.concentric.net> From: Paul Brown To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Don Smith Space Energy Device Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 02:31:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDB9D1.829750A0" Resent-Message-ID: <"U6kTZ3.0.Pv3.g5Plr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5431 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDB9D1.829750A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Fred Walter [SMTP:fredw@mks.com] Sent: Monday, July 27, 1998 9:03 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Don Smith Space Energy Device In one of Don Smith's papers he refers to the book "Direct Energy Conversion" by Stanley Angrist. This is a 488 page book directed towards engineers. Sadly, I'm not an engineer. I do have an applied math background, but that was years ago... I've borrowed this book from a library via inter-library loan, and I need to return it sometime soon, and I don't want to wade through all of it, just through the parts that relate to Don Smith's "space energy device". Does anyone know which section(s) of this book are the most relevant? Thanx, fred None! Sorry Fred, but that is the bottom line. 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Tue, 28 Jul 1998 02:18:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 02:18:46 -0700 X-Internal-ID: 35BC8801000016FD Message-ID: <35BD977E.CDA7E5CC@freeline.ch> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:18:54 +0200 From: Martin Schmid X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Don Smith Space Energy Device References: <199807280302.XAA06165@centi.mks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tA9UE1.0.wR1.sTPlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5432 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Fred Could you tell the ISBN of the book? Thanks, Martin Fred Walter wrote: > > In one of Don Smith's papers he refers to the book "Direct Energy Conversion" > by Stanley Angrist. This is a 488 page book directed towards engineers. > Sadly, I'm not an engineer. I do have an applied math background, > but that was years ago... > -- 4L GmbH Tel: +41 62 867 4000 Martin Schmid Fax: +41 62 876 3111 Oberzeiherstr. 1 > new e-mail address < CH-5079 Zeihen mschmid@datacomm.ch is obsolete From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 06:06:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA19605; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 06:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 06:04:14 -0700 (PDT) From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:56:29 -0400 Message-Id: <199807281256.IAA08357@centi.mks.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Don Smith Space Energy Device Resent-Message-ID: <"Y_hQv.0.Eo4.BnSlr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5433 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From: Martin Schmid >> In one of Don Smith's papers he refers to the book "Direct Energy Conversion" >> by Stanley Angrist. This is a 488 page book directed towards engineers. >Could you tell the ISBN of the book? The book doesn't seem to have an ISBN in it. It is copyright 1965, 1971. The Library of Congress Catalog Card No. is 74-126913 and the other identifying number on it is "621.3124 A54 1971". fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 06:12:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20646; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 06:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 06:10:05 -0700 (PDT) From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:01:59 -0400 Message-Id: <199807281301.JAA09358@centi.mks.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Don Smith Space Energy Device Resent-Message-ID: <"HE-OY.0.N25.hsSlr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5434 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>In one of Don Smith's papers he refers to the book "Direct Energy Conversion" >>by Stanley Angrist. This is a 488 page book directed towards engineers. >>Does anyone know which section(s) of this book are the most relevant? >From: "Meat Truck" >I would venture to assume that devices of this small magnitude are of >themselves irrelevant. Are you saying this because you have read the book, and have an engineering background that enables you to understand the contents? >From: Paul Brown >None! >Sorry Fred, but that is the bottom line. Are you saying this because you have read the book, and have an engineering background that enables you to understand the contents? fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 07:52:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09473; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807281441.LAA19065@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:41:19 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Inertia ? Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br CC: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19980728010705.20d337ec.in@smtp.dabney.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"zc0b41.0.wJ2.MKUlr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5435 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > > My guess is that with correct timming, the energy spent to maintain the wheel > > spinning at 3000 rpm could be smaller than the energy extracted by the load. > > > > Any opinions ? > > > > --- > > Marcelo Puhl > > mark@plug-in.com.br > > Sounds exactly like the work Bedini was doing with his generator, > pulsing the motor and the electrical generator load. Bill B. has a > link to his site, might want to check it out. > > Emmett > I would like to know if he had success with the experiment and if someone has reproduced his results. --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 09:38:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28731; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:33:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:33:52 -0700 Message-ID: <19980728161630.11341.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:16:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Pseudo Critical Thinking Link To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"v5Zb.0.r07.lrVlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5436 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Great link on "pseudo critical thinking" and "pseudo skeptics". Not exactly targeting FE, OU, or things vortexian.....but definately applicable to much of the criticism directed into these camps as well. Some valid points. http://www.remoteviewers.com/critical.html I really like one of the phrases - "Extraordinary denial requires extraordinary proof" == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 11:15:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11632; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:03:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:03:10 -0700 Message-ID: <008501bdba4f$d7769ee0$0300a8c0@web.xplorenet.com> From: "Paul Brown" To: Subject: Re: Don Smith Space Energy Device Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:39:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"a0UMx2.0.gr2.T9Xlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5437 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, Yes, I have read the book many times. Yes, I have a copy in my library some 6 feet from me. Yes, I have a Ph.D. in physics and have been working with energy conversion systems for some 20 years (my specialty is conversion of radioactive decay to electricity). However, the reason I made the statement was that I have seen Don Smith's demo (if Don Smith is the guy from Texas with the "free energy" suitcase) and he has nothing novel. It is a UPS driving a resonant transformer (basic Tesla coil circuit) to drive a load. No magic! Now, if I am confused about whom Don Smith is, then I appologize in advance, but I am confident this is the guy. Paul - >>>In one of Don Smith's papers he refers to the book "Direct Energy Conversion" >>>by Stanley Angrist. This is a 488 page book directed towards engineers. >>>Does anyone know which section(s) of this book are the most relevant? >>From: Paul Brown >>None! >>Sorry Fred, but that is the bottom line. > >Are you saying this because you have read the book, and have an engineering >background that enables you to understand the contents? > > fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 12:17:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03323; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:14:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:14:21 -0700 (PDT) From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:06:29 -0400 Message-Id: <199807281906.PAA28060@centi.mks.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Don Smith Space Energy Device Resent-Message-ID: <"yRbT6.0.op.7CYlr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5438 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From: "Paul Brown" > >>>>In one of Don Smith's papers he refers to the book "Direct Energy >>>>Conversion" by Stanley Angrist. This is a 488 page book directed >>>>towards engineers. Does anyone know which section(s) of this book >>>>are the most relevant? >>>None! Sorry Fred, but that is the bottom line. >>Are you saying this because you have read the book, and have an engineering >>background that enables you to understand the contents? > >Yes, I have read the book many times. Yes, I have a copy in my library some >6 feet from me. Yes, I have a Ph.D. in physics and have been working with >energy conversion systems for some 20 years (my specialty is conversion of >radioactive decay to electricity). Cool. Unfortunately your average person can't get radioactive materials to use as the basis for a really long life battery. Would it be useful to make a copy of the book (as a reference) or is it very dated? (Is anything in that book useful for someone that wants something that works, that doesn't have a PhD in anything?) >However, the reason I made the statement was that I have seen >Don Smith's demo (if Don Smith is the guy from Texas with the "free energy" >suitcase) and he has nothing novel. It is a UPS driving a resonant >transformer (basic Tesla coil circuit) to drive a load. >No magic! Now, if I am confused about whom Don Smith is, then I appologize >in advance, but I am confident this is the guy. Ok, just checking. On some of the other mailing-lists that I've been on, I've had people give me advice, my follow it, spending lots of time/money, only to figure out that the person giving the advice didn't know anything about what they were talking about. One of the sets of plans that I've seen have a 12 volt 7 amp-hour gelcell, powering a neon tube transformer. The output of this goes through a large capacitor bank (8,000 microfarads at 480 VDC) that has a resistor across it (value not given). Then there is a varistor (used to limit the voltage that gets to the output transformer). This is hooked up to an output transformer, isolation type, rated at 28.8 KVA, with another resistor (value not given) there to correct the output frequency to 60 Hz. This circuit is missing the connection from the output to a battery charger, to keep the battery charged. This is not the suitcase model. There is another set of plans, probably for the 'suitcase' model, that is also missing some important bits (aside from the values/ratings/sources for the parts mentioned in the parts list). fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 13:08:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12562; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35BE2AEB.24602184@darknet.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:47:55 -0400 From: Steve Organization: DarkNet Online/Digital Fusion X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Don Smith Space Energy Device References: <199807281906.PAA28060@centi.mks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qHzpC1.0.B43.ZtYlr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5439 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >It is a UPS driving a resonant > >transformer (basic Tesla coil circuit) to drive a load. Hi all, Is this more efficient than a normal power supply setup? I understand the concept of a resonant transformer, that is something I was discussing with a friend of mine a couple months ago, but he hasn't been on the net for a few weeks now. Anyway, if it's just a basic tesla coil circuit, wouldn't it be possible to simple convert the output of a tesla coil back down to 60Hz and use it to drive a load, with more efficiency than using a straight battery supply? (that's just a guess, I don't know much about this..) Basically, is a UPS connected to a tesla coil producing more energy to drive a load than a direct UPS or battery connection? ttyl -Steve -- darklord@darknet.net | UIN: 5113616 DarkNet Online: http://www.darknet.net Digital Fusion: http://www.darknet.net/fusion From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 13:50:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06103; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:37:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:37:26 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDBA70.1AF7E8C0@que3-p6.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: RE: CINDER Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:38:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA06079 Resent-Message-ID: <"s9UW-.0.FV1.5QZlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5440 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Patrick, <> I don't know much about it so: You say that humans only generate 0.025% of the Sun's heat input, and that it is harmless. How much heat, then, would you consider as dangerous? 1%, 10%, 200%? It seems to me that comparing the total energy input from the Sun with the heat that humans generate may be incorrect. I understand that there is a balance between the energy we receive from the Sun and the energy we (Earth, that is) radiate. I also believe that it is a very delicate balance. Extra energy released into the atmosphere, either man produced or green house effect produced or Sun produced, may cause serious problems. Some scientists already state that the very serious weather modifications we are witnessing are due to the energy rising in of our atmosphere. The idea is simple: more energy, more agitation, instabilities. It would be interesting to know how much energy is being trapped due to green house effect and compare it with our own production, not solar input. Another point worth considering is: The current limit imposed on energy consumption is its cost. If the energy you have is free, then why bother turning off the lights at night? Best regards, António Vilela From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 14:51:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18517; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:44:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:44:50 -0700 Message-ID: <010201bdba70$f7b0bb20$0300a8c0@web.xplorenet.com> From: "Paul Brown" To: Subject: Re: Don Smith Space Energy Device Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:44:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"wDPsr2.0.FX4.HPalr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5441 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve, Efficiency is not the point. My point was that it is not a "free energy" device. If it were then the efficiency would be infinite! As far as the actual efficiency of his design, I would have to guess that it is very low. However, resonant power supplies are used in the industry and arer extremely efficient (of course, not over-unity). Paul >> >It is a UPS driving a resonant >> >transformer (basic Tesla coil circuit) to drive a load. > >Hi all, > >Is this more efficient than a normal power supply setup? I understand >the concept of a resonant transformer, that is something I was >discussing with a friend of mine a couple months ago, but he hasn't been >on the net for a few weeks now. Anyway, if it's just a basic tesla >coil circuit, wouldn't it be possible to simple convert the output >of a tesla coil back down to 60Hz and use it to drive a load, with >more efficiency than using a straight battery supply? (that's just >a guess, I don't know much about this..) > >Basically, is a UPS connected to a tesla coil producing more energy >to drive a load than a direct UPS or battery connection? > >ttyl >-Steve >-- > darklord@darknet.net | UIN: 5113616 > DarkNet Online: http://www.darknet.net >Digital Fusion: http://www.darknet.net/fusion From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 14:52:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19697; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:47:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:47:20 -0700 Message-ID: <00fd01bdba70$8dd82c60$0300a8c0@web.xplorenet.com> From: "Paul Brown" To: Subject: Re: Don Smith Space Energy Device Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:41:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"RXm2G1.0.Xp4.cRalr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5442 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>>In one of Don Smith's papers he refers to the book "Direct Energy >>>>>Conversion" by Stanley Angrist. This is a 488 page book directed >>>>>towards engineers. Does anyone know which section(s) of this book >>>>>are the most relevant? >Would it be useful to make a copy of the book (as a reference) or is it >very dated? (Is anything in that book useful for someone that wants something >that works, that doesn't have a PhD in anything?) > The Angrist book is great! However it has nothing to do with Don Smith and his system. If people are interested in the engineering, dynamics and kinematics of energy conversion, then this is a very good book. Along the same line, I would then also reccomend George Miley's books, DIRECT CONVERSION OF NUCLEAR RADIATION ENERGY and FUSION ENERGY CONVERSION, as newer works and also relevant. Paul From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 15:19:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26737; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:13:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:13:55 -0700 Message-ID: <35BE4C81.EEFCC6D7@harti.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:11:13 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: New version of gravitational converter article uploaded. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1oNBz3.0.hX6.Zqalr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5443 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Dieter Bauer has still corrected a few errors in the article about the selfrunner gravitational converter unit. I just uploaed the corrected version 1.3. It is at: http://www.overunity.com/gb/gb.htm I called today the inventor and he told me, that his selfrunner prototype will be tried to resetup for the upcoming free energy symposium in Switzerland from Net Journalīs Adolf Schneider taking place at the 22nd and 23th of August. Also Dieter Bauer will be there discussing this unit and his theories. The inventor told me, that he did not yet couple an electrical generator to the output shaft of the device, cause it needs at least 2 x 90 degrees shifted converters on the same shaft to produce more steady output torque, although the selfrunner effect can be shown with just one device. A bigger generator using this principle would need probably 10 x devices each spaced at 36 degrees phased on the same shaft and each having a length of about 10 Meters which could already probably generate enough power for a big house ( around 5 to 10 KWatts) Regards, Stefan. P.S.: I would like to hear some comments from the "cracks" of these list. Are you all on vacations ?? What do you think about this new device ? Is it just so genuine, so that you can not say anything ? -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 17:16:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15351; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:09:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:09:49 -0700 From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:09:56 -0400 Message-Id: <199807290009.UAA20366@centi.mks.com> To: leoguitar@vossnet.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Subject: Re: New version of gravitational converter article uploaded. Resent-Message-ID: <"-IY7f1.0.il3.DXclr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5444 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From: Stefan Hartmann >A bigger generator using this principle would need probably 10 x devices >each spaced at 36 degrees phased on the same shaft and each having a >length of about 10 Meters which could already probably generate enough >power for a big house (around 5 to 10 KWatts) 10 devices, each 10 meters long, need to be hooked up to each other in just the right way, in order to produce a useable amount of power. Um. Er. I think I'll stick with a diesel/propane generator. It costs a lot less to get one of these, and a big fuel tank (enough to last for years), and takes up a lot less space. 'Free' energy isn't very useful if it costs more than conventional technology, and is a lot less convenient to boot. fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 17:17:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15896; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:12:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:12:26 -0700 Message-ID: <35BE684A.F835090B@harti.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:09:46 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fred Walter CC: Stefan Hartmann , freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Subject: Re: New version of gravitational converter article uploaded. References: <199807290009.UAA20366@centi.mks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"J1P4R.0.Iu3.fZclr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5445 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred Walter wrote: > >From: Stefan Hartmann > >A bigger generator using this principle would need probably 10 x devices > >each spaced at 36 degrees phased on the same shaft and each having a > >length of about 10 Meters which could already probably generate enough > >power for a big house (around 5 to 10 KWatts) > > 10 devices, each 10 meters long, need to be hooked up to each other in just > the right way, in order to produce a useable amount of power. > > Um. Er. I think I'll stick with a diesel/propane generator. > It costs a lot less to get one of these, and a big fuel tank > (enough to last for years), and takes up a lot less space. > > 'Free' energy isn't very useful if it costs more than conventional technology, > and is a lot less convenient to boot. > > fred Well, this is only the first prototype ! Wait a few years and you will drive with this 10 times smaller machine your next car ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 18:57:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25993; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:54:47 -0700 (PDT) From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:46:54 -0400 Message-Id: <199807290146.VAA01296@centi.mks.com> To: leoguitar@vossnet.de, fredw@mks.com Subject: Re: New version of gravitational converter article uploaded. Cc: leoguitar@vossnet.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Resent-Message-ID: <"yDrun1.0.xL6.Y3elr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5446 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From harti@harti.com Tue Jul 28 20:12:52 1998 >> >A bigger generator using this principle would need probably 10 x devices >> >each spaced at 36 degrees phased on the same shaft and each having a >> >length of about 10 Meters which could already probably generate enough >> >power for a big house (around 5 to 10 KWatts) >> >> 10 devices, each 10 meters long, need to be hooked up to each other in just >> the right way, in order to produce a useable amount of power. >> >> Um. Er. I think I'll stick with a diesel/propane generator. >> It costs a lot less to get one of these, and a big fuel tank >> (enough to last for years), and takes up a lot less space. > >Well, this is only the first prototype ! > >Wait a few years and you will drive with this 10 times smaller machine >your next car ! I really hope you are correct. Go to http://www.garynorth.com and start reading the articles. I suspect, if it takes the inventor more than 1.5 years to get to the '10 times smaller machine' stage, then getting to that stage will be delayed... somewhat. I'm looking for a system that I can put in place this fall, so that I can be off the electrical distribution grid. I live near the area in Canada that was without electricity for a month earlier this year, because of the ice-storms. fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 20:16:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13525; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:11:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:11:01 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35BE4C81.EEFCC6D7@harti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:09:55 -1000 To: freenrg list From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: New version of gravitational converter article uploaded. Resent-Message-ID: <"rWZkd.0.DJ3.5Bflr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5447 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan - > P.S.: I would like to hear some comments from the > "cracks" of these list. Are you all on vacations ?? What > do you think about this new device ? Is it just so > genuine, so that you can not say anything ? I'd like to see proof. Otherwise, these claims are nothing but claims. Like Greg Watson's, for instance. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jul 28 22:54:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11175; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:46:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:46:18 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CINDER Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 05:33:48 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35c0a066.88553063@mail-hub> References: <01BDBA70.1AF7E8C0@que3-p6.telepac.pt> In-Reply-To: <01BDBA70.1AF7E8C0@que3-p6.telepac.pt> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"90zg7.0.Sk2.gShlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5448 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:38:04 -0000, António Vilela wrote: [snip] >I don't know much about it so: >You say that humans only generate 0.025% of the Sun's heat input, and that >it is harmless. >How much heat, then, would you consider as dangerous? 1%, 10%, 200%? I would think that we would start to have an effective influence, when the amount is of the same order of size as the natural *variation*. Cloud cover tends to reflect more energy back out into space (and also keep more infra-red in, but I think the reflected > retained), so variations in cloud cover mean variations in overall power reaching the surface. On an annual basis, snow cover in the northern hemisphere during winter will be greater than in the southern hemisphere during winter (there is more land in the northern hemisphere), so reflection will also be greater during the northern winter than during the southern winter. > >It seems to me that comparing the total energy input from the Sun with >the heat that humans generate may be incorrect. I understand that there >is a balance between the energy we receive from the Sun and the energy >we (Earth, that is) radiate. I also believe that it is a very delicate balance. Actually, I think we radiate somewhat more than we receive, due to gradual loss of heat from the interior of the planet adding to the reradiated solar energy (+ the 0.025% ;) > >Extra energy released into the atmosphere, either man produced or green house >effect produced or Sun produced, may cause serious problems. I think you can get a rough approximation, by thinking of the earth as a "black body". So when you increase the power to 1.00025 what it was (i.e. by adding 0.025 % man made power), the temperature increases to 1.0000625 of what it was (see below for formula). IOW 300 K (= 27 C, or 81 F) becomes 300.02 K (it rises by 0.02 deg K, or 0.036 F). As you can see, this isn't anywhere near natural temperature variations. This is of course based on the assumption that the earth's albedo doesn't change while the energy is being released. When we burn fossil fuels, we do change the albedo, - see "greenhouse effect". >Some scientists already state that the very serious weather modifications we are >witnessing are due to the energy rising in of our atmosphere. >The idea is simple: more energy, more agitation, instabilities. This I agree with in principle. > >It would be interesting to know how much energy is being trapped due to green >house effect and compare it with our own production, not solar input. I have always assumed that the greenhouse effect contribution is considerably larger (A half degree temperature rise implies roughly a 1% increase in power, or an equivalent alteration in albedo). (AFAIK, 1/2 deg. is the approximate temp. rise over the last century). And 1 % >> 0.025%, so it doesn't look like the past temperature rise is due directly to the energy expenditure itself. The resultant greenhouse gas emissions, may however be responsible. > >Another point worth considering is: The current limit imposed on energy consumption >is its cost. If the energy you have is free, then why bother turning off the lights at night? We probably wouldn't bother (one reason why I'm glad that there is a drive for greater efficiency, before "free" energy is developed). But I still don't think it would make any difference. To really make a difference, you have to do lunatic things like building heating pads into roads to keep them ice free, and then leave them turned on all the time. However with a concentrated form of "free" energy, roads may become redundant anyway (flying gives greater freedom, speed, and gets rid of the ugly roads). The formula for radiated power / meter^2 of a black body is 5.67E-8 x T^4 in (watts/meter^2)/kelvin^4 . IOW plug in the temperature in degrees kelvin (=deg. C + 273.15), and you get watts/m^2 radiated. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 29 01:23:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA23984; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:13:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807290813.BAA07887@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: CINDER Resent-Message-ID: <"x92Nh1.0.gs5.hjjlr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5449 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robin and all, At 05:33 AM 7/29/98 GMT, you wrote: ... >I have always assumed that the greenhouse effect contribution is >considerably larger (A half degree temperature rise implies roughly a >1% increase in power, or an equivalent alteration in albedo). >(AFAIK, 1/2 deg. is the approximate temp. rise over the last century). >And 1 % >> 0.025%, so it doesn't look like the past temperature rise >is due directly to the energy expenditure itself. The resultant >greenhouse gas emissions, may however be responsible. > The reason I question the the greenhouse gas emission cause is that, besides this year, 1998, any increase (The 1/2 deg? you mentioned) occurred before 25 years ago. Thus there is no correlation of the temp. with the amount of "greenhouse gasses" produced in the last 26 years. Also, as I mentioned before, H2O vapor may be a much larger cause than CO2. Another theory is that the sun's output has increased 1% during this time. I don't know what of this amount would be from solar flares, etc. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 29 01:31:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA24783; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006901bdbaca$4b5eb520$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: OT: Energy consumption affecting global warming Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:23:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ev2ew1.0.936.7sjlr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5450 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Are we humans arrogant enough to really believe that our actions so far on this planet have impacted global temperatures? Are the scientists that are supporting the global warming theories the same scientists that warned that we would exhaust our fossil fuel reserves by 1985? They have to get funding for research. Take a graph of the Sun's energy reaching earth, draw on it a graph of the global temperature. There you go!... Global temperatures are always on a gradual trend up or a gradual trend down. Was the last temperature peak cased by animals 'emitting' methane etc? I think not. There are many factors influencing the average global temperature. Humans account only for a very small percentage of this. The planet has self regulated temperature accurately (within tolererances required for life) for a VERY long time now. Don't forget that any weather excesses that we are experiencing now have always occured. For example the worst 'storm / tornado / hurricane / etc' since 17??, 18??. Were the people in these times affecting the weather as well? Regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 29 03:41:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA03795; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 03:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 03:40:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sh.diac.com: ekwall2 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 04:28:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Harmonics of Light? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SptEn.0.Dx.emllr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5451 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex &/or Freenrg (sorry for the cross-posting) I'll step aside for the brainiacs. REF: Harmonics of the speed of light? ARE THEY THERE? 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, -C- , 1st Harmonic of light = ?, 2nd = ? 3rd etc.. ....,...,..,.,-C-,_,__,___,____,*,*,**,***,****,! etc..etc......... Has this been discussed yet? Is there a good URL you could point me to? -=se=- steve (just having an aetheric thought:) ekwall excuse me, /delete/ if this is ~out of bounds~ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 29 05:48:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA07766; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 05:41:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 05:41:47 -0700 Message-ID: <35BF1511.53DB@microtec.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:26:57 -0400 From: Patrick Tremblay Reply-To: energeon@microtec.net Organization: Energeon X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OT: Energy consumption affecting global warming References: <006901bdbaca$4b5eb520$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7rPVB.0.Av1.BYnlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5452 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David, Let me tell you one thing, humans has extincted species, condemned entire areas because of nuclear pollution, destroyed the ozone layer because of all the CFC released in the atmosphere and the nitric oxides released by all the past atmospheric nuclear tests. Humans have released a LOT of radioactivity on the globe, tchernobyl is nothing. Humans have also destroyed a lot of oxygen producing trees that would have eliminated a lot CO2. We have released toxic chemicals in the oceans, puting in danger fish life. So I am sure that humans also are responsible for global warming, not because we sent more or less heat, but because we also release gases that trap this heat which is worse. Of course if in the past the sun had been sending more heat, now we are facing a worse problem because of green house effect gases that heat will be trapped. But with Free Energy we won't be producing all thoses gases and we will have all the energy to capture and retransform these gases. The problem can be solved. -- Energeon, 7515 Jodelle, Laval West (quebec), Canada, H7R-5L5, FAX: 1-514-686-6083 PHONE: 1-514-962-1678 Patrick Tremblay energeon@microtec.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 29 09:20:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23705; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:18:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:18:26 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:17:40 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Quickfield does as predicted (Butch) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"4D1bE.0.Fo5.Hjqlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5453 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, The Quickfield animation of the current design of the off-set rotor with half circle stator does just as predicted. As the magnet approaches verticle, the flux collapses, and is divided into two equal fields, one on the left and one on the right. This collapse if put thru a coil will increase the attraction of the magnet to the stator as it approaches verticle. This is the opposite of what happens in a conventional magneto. See web site under "most current design". Thanks, Butch LaFonte http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html My thanks to Anton Rager for the Quickfields he has done in the middle of buying a home and moving. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 29 10:09:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20986; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:04:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:04:18 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <721d5ca0.35bf53e6@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:55:01 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Bear with me on web sites Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"-zbgs2.0.o75.FOrlr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5454 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I am keeping my present web sites up, but I am working with someone who knows what they are doing to make the sites more user friendly. There will be a near total change in the way they are put together. Thanks for everyones input and offers for help, I will get back to you all as time permits. Thanks, Butch LaFonte http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html http://members.aol.com/LTDFan1/lafontearchives.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 29 12:36:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21946; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:33:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:33:10 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:32:49 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Theory of operation of offset rotor-half circle stator Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"u0z6h.0.oM5.rZtlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5455 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all, The theory of operation of my offset rotor with half circle stator is as follows. 1. Fact: When the rotor (magnet) approaches the stator in a conventional magneto, the expanding magnetic field thru the coil causes a reduction in the magnet's attraction. 2. I the offset rotor half circle stator design the magnet is attracted to the top of the half circle stator due to the magnet being offset. The more it rotates counter clockwise the smaller the air gap between the magnet and ferrite stator. But as the magnet approaches vertical, the field starts to collapse and divide up into two equal halfs. The collapse thru the coil on the left of the half circle will create a flux in the same direction as the already present flux and try to keep the field constant and increase the pull on the magnet to the stator. NOTE: A collapsing field thru a stator coil always causes a flux in the core that is in the same direction as the collapsing flux. 3. The kinetic energy of the magnet is increased here and the coil is also producing electrical power. 4. The most common asked question about this device is, don't you have to put in power to move the magnet from full vertical and also from full horizional. Answer:Yes you do, but the magnet also puts power into the system in the form of kinetic energy as it is being pulled into these positions! Thanks, Butch LaFonte http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 29 13:36:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04069; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:30:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:30:49 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Harmonics of Light? Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:36:28 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"wsbk92.0.R_.uPulr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5456 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Have you read the most recent "Discover" magazine (August 98)? Their front page article is "Was Einstein Wrong? Faster Than Light - A few fearless physicists think they can beat the universe's speed limit." An interesting discussion of various "serious" physicists exploring the FTL question. Charles > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Ekwall [mailto:ekwall2@diac.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 3:29 AM > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Harmonics of Light? > > > > > REF: Harmonics of the speed of light? ARE THEY THERE? > > 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, -C- , 1st Harmonic of light = ?, 2nd = ? > 3rd etc.. > ....,...,..,.,-C-,_,__,___,____,*,*,**,***,****,! etc..etc......... > > Has this been discussed yet? Is there a good URL you could > point me to? > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 29 15:53:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16450; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:50:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:50:01 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <64ef6bd9.35bfa710@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:49:51 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Bear with me Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"YVlY_.0.h04.PSwlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5457 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: someone said> Oh. Rats... I thought this was going to a strip-web-site, like Ski Bear! Oh well...< I said> I thought that would get everyones attention. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 29 16:33:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00618; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:31:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:31:00 -0700 Message-ID: <35C0B966.3764@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:20:23 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: leoguitar@vossnet.de CC: freenrg-l Subject: Re: New version of gravitational converter article uploaded. References: <35BE4C81.EEFCC6D7@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sxSos.0.U9.q2xlr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5458 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan, > > P.S.: I would like to hear some comments from the "cracks" of these > list. Are you all on vacations ?? > What do you think about this new device ? Is it just so genuine, so that > you can not say anything ? > I've had a good look at your information on this Stefan, and I guess i'ts a little hard to believe what's being said here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that an integral gear (as shown), will actually amplify energy applied at its input. If that is the claim, and it seems to be, then in the rotary version shown (which has exactly the same principle) it should be possible to couple the output back the the central driving gear and it would indeed run itself!! I'm not saying that's an impossibility, I'm just saying that it's extremely hard to believe solely on your papers theoretical or mathematical ideas. Have you in fact built and tested a simple model to confirm the integral gear's principle? For example, one with the simple design of your unbalanced mass device. If the falling weight you describe (G2) does indeed raise the slightly lighter mass (G1) higher to a centre of combined mass above the pivot's balance point, then this would have to be the most remarkable mechanical device of all time!! And it would be a principle that would apply to any other type of 'uni-directional' force....including those encountered in electromagnetics!! So PLEASE Stefan, make my day and tell me you have built and tested a simple model that works on this principle, and that it in fact does everything exactly as you describe. Regards, Stuart ============================= S. N. Rae, mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jul 29 21:27:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA24287; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:25:22 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CINDER Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 04:04:02 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35c4ee84.174112184@mail-hub> References: <199807290813.BAA07887@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <199807290813.BAA07887@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gOJkp1.0.Px5.mM_lr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5459 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:13:29 -0700 (PDT), dave dameron wrote: [snip] >The reason I question the the greenhouse gas emission cause is that, besides >this year, 1998, any increase (The 1/2 deg? you mentioned) occurred before >25 years ago. >Thus there is no correlation of the temp. with the amount of "greenhouse >gasses" produced in the last 26 years. There are two points I would like to make regarding this. Firstly, temperature data based on satellite observations may not be comparable to that based on ground data, because satellites tend to measure the temperature of higher layers in the atmosphere (or so I have read). Secondly, my personally impression is that the last two decades have seen a considerably increase in the amount of volcanic activity around the world (someone please correct me if this is wrong). Volcanoes have a habit of spewing out SO2, which tends to increase the reflectivity of the atmosphere, shielding us from some of the incoming solar energy, and thus partially counteracting the effect of an increase in greenhouse gasses. All of which means that the picture isn't nearly as clear cut as it might be. >Also, as I mentioned before, H2O >vapor may be a much larger cause than CO2. H2O vapour is far and away the most important greenhouse gas. However there are plenty of arguments about whether or not this has actually increased. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 30 00:41:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA20335; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002401bdbb8b$c8938040$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: , Subject: Re: OT: Energy consumption affecting global warming Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:28:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"CECCY1.0.dz4.ID2mr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5460 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Patrick Yes, humans have causes widespread damage to the planet, most of it accompanied with scare-mongering from world 'scientists'. Fifty years ago it was predicted that with the number of trees left today that the planet would suffocate. I can still breath. CO2 is seen as a major factor in global warming. However, the current output of CO2, which is a considerable amount is NOT affecting the heat retention of the planet at all. As I said, all the temperature rises (and falls) of the last 200 years fit perfectly with predected levels using the Sun's output. The gas mixtures on Earth are regulated by more complex and powerful mechanisms than trees and humans alone. Sure, with our present activity, we are affecting the 'brew' somewhat, but not enough to be measured. David Callaghan David Callaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 30 02:37:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01462; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:34:05 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <36b510f6.35c03c25@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:25:56 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: The Thornson Inertial Engine (TIE) experiment Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"TgqT91.0.mM.Cu3mr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5461 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, For your "relaxing exploration" of the mechanical physic during the summer time, I have updated my web site with an amazing device that anyone can build easily with few and common material (with some legotechnic components). I have built and tested successfully a Thornson inertial propulsion drive. The Thornson Inertial Engine (TIE) uses the force from a rotating inertial mass (the centrifugal force) for producing a linear impulse. An inertial propulsion engine (IPE) is a mechanical device which uses a standard electrical motor drive for producing a motion, an IPE does not require a medium such as air. Some tests and measurements conducted on Thornson Drive prototype have suggested that the IPE force-to-power ratio can be up to 2000% ie 20 times higher than a conventional jet engine. (for a theorical approach of the concept of inertial propulsion, I suggest you to read the document from Thomas Valone "Inertial propulsion: the Thornson EZKL drives" and also the document from the same author "Inertial Propulsion: Concept and Experiment") You will find all diagrams, color pictures and videos about this at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/IPEmain.htm I shall soon add more enhanced projects about this domain... Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 30 03:08:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA27992; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 03:01:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 03:01:34 -0700 Message-ID: <004001bdbba1$27ee4f60$183cd6d1@martylin> From: "MartyDonna" To: Subject: Re: OT: Energy consumption affecting global warming Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:25:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"WufcP3.0.Br6.-H4mr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5462 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't know about that. I live & grew up in North Carolina. When I was a kid in the early 70's & I spent a lot of time outdoorsback then. It sure was colder in the winter and we had more snow. My kids are 8 & they don't even know what snow is. But the summers was hotter, lots hotter, not in degrees but for longer periods of time thru out the year. The temp doesn't seem to be rising but the weather patterns are. When they do the math in the average temp how do you think they are doing it? IF it's like this jan,2 30 degrees july,2 100 dec,2 50 d lets see 30 + 100 + 50 = 180 , A= 180/3, A = 60 jan,2 40 july,2 80 dec,2 60 lets see 40 + 80 + 60 = 180, A = 180/3, A = 60 Temp hasn't changed. That's the same way they do the math, It's called the "average" temp. unless you take 100 different place's & take the temp for everyday of the month all year. Make a graph of the temp's for each place over the past 100 years with the daily high temp & the low for that day and let me see it would I beleive it. Has anybody seen this kind of prove on here??? Or are you getting it from what the science magazine's are telling you or from some book you read. Unless you see the prove I wouldn't beleive nothing the media is trying to tell you. Then of course try to remember what the weather was like when you was a kid. Has it changed any. Are you still even living in the same town? Did it snow more or less. How cold was the winters? Did your parents grow a garden. What do you see different now then when you was a kid. Are your parents seeing bugs in the garden they have never seen before? What's the food chain breaking down at now? Are you seeing more other small animals now then when you was a kid? Rats? Weird bugs or more of a certain type that you have never saw before? Does the summers seem dryer or wetter. Just something to think about. -----Original Message----- From: David Callaghan To: energeon@microtec.net ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, July 30, 1998 3:38 AM Subject: Re: OT: Energy consumption affecting global warming >Patrick > >Yes, humans have causes widespread damage to the planet, most of it >accompanied with scare-mongering from world 'scientists'. Fifty years ago >it was predicted that with the number of trees left today that the planet >would suffocate. I can still breath. > >CO2 is seen as a major factor in global warming. However, the current >output of CO2, which is a considerable amount is NOT affecting the heat >retention of the planet at all. As I said, all the temperature rises (and >falls) of the last 200 years fit perfectly with predected levels using the >Sun's output. > >The gas mixtures on Earth are regulated by more complex and powerful >mechanisms than trees and humans alone. Sure, with our present activity, we >are affecting the 'brew' somewhat, but not enough to be measured. > >David Callaghan >David Callaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 30 06:02:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16186; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:58:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:58:49 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:58:11 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski" To: JNaudin509@aol.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Thornson Inertial Engine (TIE) experiment In-Reply-To: <36b510f6.35c03c25@aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Z1aJi2.0.py3.8u6mr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5463 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Louis: Is this a "co-generator"? Can we use it to produce electricity and get hot water at the same time? Can it be used to generate electricity for a home (ie. 2,500 kWh/year). What is the fuel? Is it a Free Energy device? Why make it available free? Even if you could answer one of the questions, I would be grateful. If it works, I will assemble a team to build it and then test it, only with your permission. When I have time, I will check out your web site. My mandate is to demonstrate clean green energy to the public through our demonstration home/office. ***************************************************************************** Jorg-Dietram Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect - in full-time professional practice since 1976 (Straw Bale since 1978), environmental/architectural design, ecological planning, consulting on sustainable buildings/communities. Lectures, seminars, workshops. - 3 residential demonstration projects in Canada, +80,000 visitors - college campus and office tower recofit under construction - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office ACE, ARE, ACT, ASH-Incs., Phone: (403) 239-1882, Fax: (403) 547-2671 Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm e-mail: ######################################################### On Thu, 30 Jul 1998 JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Hi All, > > For your "relaxing exploration" of the mechanical physic during the summer > time, I have updated my web site with an amazing device that anyone can build > easily with few and common material (with some legotechnic components). > > I have built and tested successfully a Thornson inertial propulsion drive. > > The Thornson Inertial Engine (TIE) uses the force from a rotating inertial > mass (the centrifugal force) for producing a linear impulse. > > An inertial propulsion engine (IPE) is a mechanical device which uses a > standard electrical motor drive for producing a motion, an IPE does not > require a medium such as air. > Some tests and measurements conducted on Thornson Drive prototype have > suggested that the IPE force-to-power ratio can be up to 2000% ie 20 times > higher than a conventional jet engine. (for a theorical approach of the > concept of inertial propulsion, I suggest you to read the document from Thomas > Valone "Inertial propulsion: the Thornson EZKL drives" and also the document > from the same author "Inertial Propulsion: Concept and Experiment") > > You will find all diagrams, color pictures and videos about this at: > > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/IPEmain.htm > > I shall soon add more enhanced projects about this domain... > > Sincerely, > > Jean-Louis Naudin (France) > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 30 06:04:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA16547; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:01:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:01:45 -0700 Message-ID: <31FE0717.15FD48DE@harti.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:59:03 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: [Fwd: Magnet NdFeB] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7B9BC79A1366EACABAD5B1D5" Resent-Message-ID: <"BeCX_.0.O24.vw6mr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5464 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7B9BC79A1366EACABAD5B1D5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought I would forward this to the list, if anybody wants to buy good magnets ? -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net --------------7B9BC79A1366EACABAD5B1D5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >From JBSM@public.nbptt.zj.cn Thu Jul 30 08:00:02 1998 Received: by pop3.vossnet.de from localhost (router,SLMail V2.6); Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:00:02 +0200 Received: by pop3.vossnet.de from mail.harti.com (168.144.1.3::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.6); Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:00:01 +0200 Received: from SMTP32-FWD by mail.harti.com (SMTP32) id A0000013C; Thu, 30 Jul 98 01:55:09 EDT Received: from public.nbptt.zj.cn [202.96.104.38] by mail.harti.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-4.06) id AABA26A0106; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:55:06 EDT Received: from jbsm.nbptt.zj.cn (ppp61.nbptt.zj.cn [202.96.105.188]) by public.nbptt.zj.cn (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00105 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:51:23 +0800 (CST) Message-Id: <199807300551.NAA00105@public.nbptt.zj.cn> From: "JBSM" To: Subject: Magnet NdFeB Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:41:48 +0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=HZ-GB-2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-From: Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 98 01:55:09 EDT Resent-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Dear Sir, China Ningbo JinBang Strong-Magnet Material Inc. (JBSM), is a high- new technical enterprise, specialized in manufacturing and selling NdFeB rare-earth permanent magnet materials. JBSM is able to produce kinds of NdFeB magnets, of which the maximum energy product 40 MGOe , with an annual production capacity of 100 tons or more. we will provide NdFeB with various shapes and sizes for you. We are willing to enter into business relations with your corp. Warmly welcome you to come and contact with us. Please let us know your E-mail, We are looking forward with interest t your reply. Thank you! Please contact with us by Fax or E-mail. Our Fax :+86-574-8295372 E-mail : JBSM@public.nbptt.zj.cn Web-Site: http://www.JBSM.com Add: Hengjie town, West suburb, Ningbo City, 315181,China Yours sincere Mr. Lian-chang Zhang JBSM NdFeB Magnetic Characteristics Br bHc iHc (BH)max Residual Coercive Intrinsic Max No. Mark Induction Force Coercive Energy Force Product KG kOe kOe MGOe (Equal to or greater than) 01 N-30 10.8-11.2 10.1 12.0 28-30 02 N-33 11.3-11.7 10.5 12.0 31-33 03 N-35 11.7-12.0 11.0 12.0 33-35 04 N-38 12.1-12.4 11.4 11.0 36-38 05 N-40 12.5-12.9 11.4 11.0 38-40 06 N30H 10.8-11.2 10.0 17.0 28-30 07 N33H 11.3-11.7 10.5 17.0 31-33 08 N35H 11.8-12.1 11.0 17.0 33-35 09 N38H 12.3-12.6 11.4 17.0 36-38 10 N27SH 10.2-10.6 9.6 20.0 25-27 11 N30SH 10.8-11.2 10.1 20.0 28-30 12 N33SH 11.3-11.7 10.5 20.0 31-33 Max Operating Temperature: Nx: <80~{!f~}, NxH: <120~{!f~}, NxSH: <150~{!f~} Main Application Fields of NdFeB Magnet Machinery: Magnetic Bearing, Magnetic Clamp, Magnetic Crane, Magnetic Coupler, Numeric Control Machine-tool Hi-Fi System: Microphone, Earphone, Speaker, Magnetic Switch, Communication Equipment Transportation: Electric Vehicle, Fuel-oil Vehicle, Levitation Train, Compass Energy: Generator, Magnet Separator, Petroleum Dewaxing Equipment Medico Device: Magnetic Therapy Device, Water Magnetizer, Magnetic Resonance Image Device (MRI) Consumer: Electric Toys, Robot, Magnet Filter Office Automation: Computer, Printer, Air Conditioner, Voice Coil Motor (VCM) Apparatus: Electricity, Power-meter, Flow-meter, Tochmeter Auto Industry: Auto-starter, Rain-wiper, Cooling Fan, Fuel-Pump, Demister Motive Power: Micro-motor, DC Machine, Stepmotor, Texture Motor, Permanent-Dynamic System Other Apparatus, Device or equipment which designed by the use of magnetic properties and functions. --------------7B9BC79A1366EACABAD5B1D5-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 30 06:09:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA16785; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:03:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:03:48 -0700 Message-ID: <31FE079A.F9587472@harti.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:01:15 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: Updated gravitational converter article ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vDHfZ1.0.B64.qy6mr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5465 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dieter Bauer wrote: "Today I spoke with the inventor. He told me that the modified Hilscher- experiment would not work acc. to his own experiment experiments and he would be glad if this part is thrown out of the article. Therefore we have cut out this section from the article. Best regards Dieter" -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 30 06:15:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA23127; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31FE07E5.CCD8F6AF@harti.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:02:30 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: HLafonte@aol.com, freenrg-l Subject: Re: Very interesting References: <992912b5.35bf99bc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kBTz9.0.Af5.m57mr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5466 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > Stefan, > I am having a little trouble visualizing the process of the mobile. Is there > any way you could put an animation on the web that could show the process thru > a complete cycle? > Thanks, > Butch Yes, I will try to work out an animation soon with 3D Studio and the help of a friend ! Stay tuned ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 30 06:35:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA25746; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35C073D5.D389FD@harti.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:23:33 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New version of gravitational converter article uploaded. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fGsrk3.0.AI6.SP7mr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5467 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > Stefan - > > > P.S.: I would like to hear some comments from the > > "cracks" of these list. Are you all on vacations ?? What > > do you think about this new device ? Is it just so > > genuine, so that you can not say anything ? > > I'd like to see proof. Otherwise, these claims are nothing but claims. Like > Greg Watson's, for instance. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI Well, I will visit the inventor and have a first hand look in Mid of August. Stay tuned. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 30 12:43:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01154; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:58:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:58:42 -0700 Message-ID: <35C0C190.B896224A@harti.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:55:12 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: Gravitational converter, new proposal online ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EIznU.0.kH.W9Cmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5468 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I have updated the gravitational converter page. It will now be available in a frame-set version at: http://www.overunity.com/gb/index.htm There is also now the proposal from the inventor and 2 bigger pics from the device online. P.S.: More coming soon ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 30 12:57:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28199; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:54:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:54:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:43:52 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Re: Bear with me <-- Better Than That Cc: HLafonte@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"sMHXc2.0.Xu6.3-Cmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5469 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >someone said> >Oh. Rats... >I thought this was going to a strip-web-site, >like Ski Bear! >Oh well...< > >I said >I thought that would get everyones attention. >Butch This will: It's even better than sex! (maybe...) http://www.padrak.com/ine/WEBSITES.html#FINSRUD Explain that! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jul 30 16:46:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00591; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:41:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:41:30 -0700 Message-ID: <000401bdbc10$932c6220$2b862599@default> Reply-To: "Clyde Knight Jr." From: "Clyde Knight Jr." To: Subject: Re: OT: Energy consumption affecting global warming Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:19:56 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"oV0EI.0.89.fIGmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5470 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I read your brief...could you please expand your explanation. What other powerful mechanisms control the earths climate. I deduced that the earth being a vast self contained eco-system periodically cleans itself and finds that equilibrium to maintain a stable enviornment. I further believe that the solars winds combined with the magnetism of the Van Allen radiation belt along with the many properties of the atmosphere all compliment each other working to maintain the Earth. And since mankind is new to this scene we have no frame of reference for the different events that we are witnessing at the moment in regards to the atmosphere and the climatic changes. I believe that every few hundred years or so that the cleansing cycle is activated and the ozone shield opens and allows the acumulated atmospheric toxins out into space. The climatic changes along with other weather anomalies are a temporary side effect of this process. Humans did not create this eco sytem and con not destroy it. This whole issue is a political power grab by those who desire to make money and secure political niches by creating public panick. This is my objective but very humble opinion...what do you think...is it plausible or just my imagination. Clyde Knight Jr. Knite Enterprises Inc http://www.angelfire.com/biz/kniteenterises/inventor.html -----Original Message----- From: David Callaghan To: energeon@microtec.net ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, July 30, 1998 3:38 AM Subject: Re: OT: Energy consumption affecting global warming >Patrick > >Yes, humans have causes widespread damage to the planet, most of it >accompanied with scare-mongering from world 'scientists'. Fifty years ago >it was predicted that with the number of trees left today that the planet >would suffocate. I can still breath. > >CO2 is seen as a major factor in global warming. However, the current >output of CO2, which is a considerable amount is NOT affecting the heat >retention of the planet at all. As I said, all the temperature rises (and >falls) of the last 200 years fit perfectly with predected levels using the >Sun's output. > >The gas mixtures on Earth are regulated by more complex and powerful >mechanisms than trees and humans alone. Sure, with our present activity, we >are affecting the 'brew' somewhat, but not enough to be measured. > >David Callaghan >David Callaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 00:33:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA27966; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:32:24 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OT: Energy consumption affecting global warming Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:49:38 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35c252ea.89336911@mail-hub> References: <002401bdbb8b$c8938040$96d2989e@david-callaghan> In-Reply-To: <002401bdbb8b$c8938040$96d2989e@david-callaghan> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--=_35c16902949948030fc2f079.MFSBCHJLHS" Resent-Message-ID: <"4CcTk1.0.uq6.6CNmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5471 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----=_35c16902949948030fc2f079.MFSBCHJLHS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:28:57 +0100, David Callaghan wrote: [snip] >CO2 is seen as a major factor in global warming. However, the current >output of CO2, which is a considerable amount is NOT affecting the heat >retention of the planet at all. As I said, all the temperature rises (and CO2 is a greenhouse gas. So it is having some effect, though that effect may not at all be obvious. >falls) of the last 200 years fit perfectly with predected levels using the >Sun's output. Sorry, accurate measurements on the sun weren't performed 200 years ago, and I don't trust their theories as far as I could kick them. > >The gas mixtures on Earth are regulated by more complex and powerful >mechanisms than trees and humans alone. Sure, with our present activity, we >are affecting the 'brew' somewhat, but not enough to be measured. I found some interesting data here: http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/pns/current_ghg.html I also extracted the data and graphed it for our mutual enlightenment. (see attached). It seems a reasonable fit for an exponential curve. I can think of two reasons why this might be the case. 1) Perhaps CO2 trapped in bubbles in the ice slowly dissolves in the ice with time (CO2 does dissolve in water better than O2 or N2), so that older ice cores contain less CO2. This is just a guess on my part, I have no idea whether or not it is so. 2) The production of CO2 grows with the population. You can find a graph of world population growth here: http://www.wri.org/wri/enved/trends/pop-1a.html [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk ----=_35c16902949948030fc2f079.MFSBCHJLHS Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=CO2.gif Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=CO2.gif R0lGODdhIAKYAfcAAAAAAAAA/////wBG9hIAlOU3cAQAMQD2Bd8F1ABDAfABmPYCAEb2AgDfBdbl Dgx/BJj23wX///8AAAAWIAFbAQD/AAEA////AOTlxwpMKgAADRAFAHcWLOePMUcX////APYFdxY2 AAIABABNaWNyb2dyYWZ4IFBpY3R1cmUgUHVibGlzaGVyIExFIC0gWzk5JSB1bnRpdGxlZDFdADwP AgBcdwMAFmcCAAYASA80CUcEAwBsaQMAPA8CAGR3ZwMAaWcDow/UafICRvYCABLnAgAAAAAAAwDf BQEA+2Z/BDAA3wXe5ht+fwSU9t8F7Br/BSAAzAAOABAAAAAwAAAA5xQCAEwBAAAWIA4ARvbfBQsV RwPUDkAB7AICAPwCEADsAgIA/AIQAJZpHHeEAGcDI2kDADAAgABAAAIAAgHO+5T23wUAABYgAAAA AFgCQAZG9t8FBAGuBQAARvbfBfYFAgD2BQIAAgAK5yxT9gUmAkb2TU/fBQAARAECAN8FGueYpEIE Vxffd3AJAwAAAAAAwIQAAKdTNudMEVcXAgAAAAAA8P8EGgMAURGA52igF0kCAAAAAADw/3AJN3AE 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tXmchJfDJT9MJBPLsuYWsYTcG52csC+CRRM7yp98yFdjU6ZMsyormZectfwqHe8by5Mxy7T8GLZ8 y+Kqy6m4r7wcF778y+gSzMKcMMRczGhxzMh8ccq8zJ7SzM4MQ9AczT5MzUc4zdacxdnsHNi8zc3V zd78XeAczpoyzuSMHuZ8ztOSzuqsM+zczqAMz7ORy/IMzPX8GvR8z/Pyzvo8x/1MGvn8zwMm0FvI zwQdogedegad0L/K0Oe30A6dnxFdyxA90R5s0dqK0fqq0ZoR0Bz9zR9tGR4d0idW0STtaCfdrSmN yya90nTs0uUK07ss0zEiTdPRatM3jdOGMdI6jco9bSl/GtRCPdREXdRGfdRI/REBAQA7 ----=_35c16902949948030fc2f079.MFSBCHJLHS-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 02:11:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA05617; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005201bdbc61$839d0fc0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: OT: Energy consumption affecting global warming Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:58:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"xjVwq2.0.cN1.hdOmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5472 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin, Clyde, MartyDonna OK, I will have to check what I write next time. I should not have said that our CO2 contributions could not be measured!?!?! I usually read/write my email as soon as I get up before I start work. I hope I do not make such early morning mistakes in my work! Yes, CO2 is a greenhouse gas. This is demonstrable and repeatable. Robin, the graph you sent is (sort of) similar to graphs I have. Could you tell me how they accurately measured CO2 levels in the 1700's? What are the units for the Y axis on your graph? Clyde, yes I do think that humans cannot destroy the planetary eco-system. We may be able to make it collapse for a small period (all out nuclear war would be a good start), but it will recover. Remember, in the past the planet has had much, much worse weather. Everything is in cycles. MartyDonna said in effect 'was the weather different now to when you were a kid'. To me, the summers were hotter, the winter's had deeper snow. Then again, try asking this question to any adult. Chances are, no matter how old they are, they will say the same. You will be amazed at how the media affect your thinking (I am not a paranoic, I can just detect how the media has affected my own and friends thinking in many issues. Does the western media forces ever portray Muslims as anything other than mad mullah's? Does the Muslim media every portray Western people as they really are?) What is obvious is that we (mankind) do not have enough data to make accurate predictions about global temperatures. Also we are not aware of all the many mechanisms that affect the weather. Some examples: Good indicators of average temperature are algal blooms. Small increases in temperature spark immediate growth in certain types of algae - most of which consume CO2 and emit O2 very efficiently. Planetary algal levels are up slightly since measurements began, again not enough data for comparison. Algae are one the most successful creatures on the planet. 30 ish years ago, many worried scientists stated that with the current level of deforestation, world O2 levels would be too low to sustain life by the Y2K. The deforestation rates actually grew from then to now. But the atmospheric oxygen levels are still the same. Hmmmm...... Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 03:55:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA32751; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:52:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:52:09 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OT: Energy consumption affecting global warming Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:52:40 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35c39e85.108697375@mail-hub> References: <005201bdbc61$839d0fc0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> In-Reply-To: <005201bdbc61$839d0fc0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"c5btK2.0.f_7.P7Qmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5473 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:58:05 +0100, David Callaghan wrote: [snip] >Yes, CO2 is a greenhouse gas. This is demonstrable and repeatable. >Robin, the graph you sent is (sort of) similar to graphs I have. Could you >tell me how they accurately measured CO2 levels in the 1700's? Well, I doubt they did :). The figures are derived from the CO2 content of tiny air bubbles trapped in old ice (e.g. greenland, antarctica). This was clearly stated on the web page where I got the data. (See URL in previous post). This is also why I suggested that CO2 dissolving in the ice may have been responsible for the shape of the graph. >What are the units for the Y axis on your graph? ppm (parts per million of volume). I didn't notice it the first time around, but there is also a graph at: http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/co2/graphics/siple-gr.gif . [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 04:20:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA16809; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 04:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 04:18:57 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <8c3175ac.35c1a636@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:10:45 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: The Thornson pendulum test Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"Oegdq3.0.P64.TWQmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5474 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Today, I have conducted some tests about the Thornson Inertial Engine (TIE). The TIE was suspended on a 320 mm thread. The length between the attach point at the top and the red needle was 460 mm and the TIE device weight was 228 g. You will notice in the picture and also the videos (bellow), that the AVERAGE point IS NOT located at the neutral position. This now confirms the fact that the Thornson Inertial Engine produce a undirectional thrust. You will find all color pictures and videos about this at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/TIEpend.htm Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 04:35:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA19196; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 04:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 04:34:23 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Thornson pendulum test Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:26:50 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35c6a9ab.111551322@mail-hub> References: <8c3175ac.35c1a636@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8c3175ac.35c1a636@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4F0E_3.0.sh4.zkQmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5475 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:10:45 EDT, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: >Hi All, > >Today, I have conducted some tests about the Thornson Inertial Engine (TIE). > >The TIE was suspended on a 320 mm thread. The length between the attach point >at the top and the red needle was 460 mm and the TIE device weight was 228 g. >You will notice in the picture and also the videos (bellow), that the AVERAGE >point IS NOT located at the neutral position. > >This now confirms the fact that the Thornson Inertial Engine produce a >undirectional thrust. > >You will find all color pictures and videos about this at: > >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/TIEpend.htm Sorry JLN, all I see is a small stick attached to the side of a big block. It doesn't prove a thing. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 05:46:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14338; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 05:42:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 05:42:28 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <26a007c8.35c1bba1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:42:08 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The Thornson pendulum test Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA14319 Resent-Message-ID: <"pjHLH2.0.yV3.qkRmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5476 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 31/07/1998 13:33:11é), rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au a wrotet : << Sorry JLN, all I see is a small stick attached to the side of a big block. It doesn't prove a thing. Regards, >> Hi Robin, Have you a better proposition ?, I suggest you to read the document from Thomas Valone "Inertial propulsion: the Thornson EZKL drives" and also the document from the same author "Inertial Propulsion: Concept and Experiment") PACE Newsletter vol 7-1, 7-4 and Vol 9-4... Have you read these papers ? Sincerely, Jean-Louis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 07:00:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05494; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980731231921.008b3430@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:19:21 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: magnetic drive the hamster cage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"h_31h3.0.lL1.TsSmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5477 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:32 AM 6/28/98 -0700, you wrote: I have added some new stuff at my geocities Solaris site Have added an interesting idea from a contributer from this newsgroup who was unable to put his photos on the net, These photos and article are now at the solaris website make an interesting demo into how a magnetic motor could work. http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/calloway.html Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 10:34:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20706; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:29:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:29:11 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:04:46 -0400 Subject: Re: The teaser (I couldn't resist..) Message-ID: <19980731.131454.6374.2.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <199807252045.NAA25711@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-14,17-18,21-22,24-26 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com (Stephen L Heckman) Resent-Message-ID: <"-UXlf1.0.H35.cxVmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5478 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:24:31 -0400 seagul1@voicenet.com writes: > >Hello Steve...I'm new to the list..name's Stefan (USA variety)...I >think you forgot to include a statement ( else...I missed it ) of argument >to your propositions...as in the 'what' that w/could allow such a >swich-over >to bring energy production up to Wesrten standards? > >Stefan > Sorry, several assumptions here. First, Don Lancaster's comment is only relevent if we are sucessful in finding a free energy source that is sucessful, and widely available. To be widely available, it must be inexpensive. Thus, the assumption is that it will be available to a fairly wide number of people around the world (ie, that any family that can affort electricity would be able to afford a F/E source). Also note the "third world" include countries like Argentina and Brazil, which are fairly advanced. Steve Heckman _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 12:00:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25327; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:52:15 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <1f887471.35c2106e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:43:57 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: The Floating TIE box Test Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"B42AA2.0.dB6.R9Xmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5479 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Today I have conducted a new test on the Thornson Inertial Engine. The Thornson Inertial Engine has been put in a plastic box with its own power supply so the TIE box was able to move freely on the surface of the water. The weight of the TIE box with the power supply was 862 g. The measured speed is about 24 meters per hour This test seems also to confirm the fact that the Thornson Inertial Engine produces an unidirectional thrust. All pictures and videos are availible at : http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/TIEwater.htm Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 12:42:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13656; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:29:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:29:18 -0700 Message-ID: <004201bdbcb9$9bc088e0$66298e8b@plassy> From: "Plasmatic" To: , Subject: Ion Propulsion: How does it work and can a homemade one be made Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:29:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01BDBC87.4E1BE620" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"QJQHu2.0.HL3.DiXmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5480 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BDBC87.4E1BE620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all. In a recent issue of Popular Science (not the last, but the = one before I believe) they announced the launching of a satellite that = used Ion Propulsion as it's main drive mechanism rather than fuel. It = still had to be run off of solar cells, so it was severely underpowered, = but even at that low of power it could still travel, though with VERY = slow acceleration. The article kind of explained it, but I didn't quite = understand it, I found it rather vague. I was wondering if you could = explain how it works, and if it would be easy to make a small = demonstration type model. Something that would move, let's say a toy = car, across a table. I realize this would probably take quite alot of = power to overcome friction and whatnot, but if a satellite can use it, = why not make a more down-to-earth approach, with high voltages = available. Sounds like a good project to try out. I've been very = interested in things such as Ion Propulsion, though I was told the = normal, "it's only science fiction". Well, now I can prove my teachers = wrong, because we've done it. In fact, most sci-fi stuff is tomorrow's = technology. I'd just like to know if someone can help explain this to = me, and if it's feasable to make a small demo model. Nothing HUGE, just = to show that it works. it didn't look complicated, but I wasn't quite = sure how it worked. Thanks for any help you can give a budding inventor = :) ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BDBC87.4E1BE620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello all.  In a recent issue = of Popular=20 Science (not the last, but the one before I believe) they announced the=20 launching of a satellite that used Ion Propulsion as it's main drive = mechanism=20 rather than fuel.  It still had to be run off of solar cells, so it = was=20 severely underpowered, but even at that low of power it could still = travel,=20 though with VERY slow acceleration.  The article kind of explained = it, but=20 I didn't quite understand it, I found it rather vague.  I was = wondering if=20 you could explain how it works, and if it would be easy to make a small=20 demonstration type model.  Something that would move, let's say a = toy car,=20 across a table.  I realize this would probably take quite alot of = power to=20 overcome friction and whatnot, but if a satellite can use it, why not = make a=20 more down-to-earth approach, with high voltages available.  Sounds = like a=20 good project to try out.  I've been very interested in things such = as Ion=20 Propulsion, though I was told the normal, "it's only science=20 fiction".  Well, now I can prove my teachers wrong, because = we've done=20 it.  In fact, most sci-fi stuff is tomorrow's = technology.   =20 I'd just like to know if someone can help explain this to me, and if = it's=20 feasable to make a small demo model.  Nothing HUGE, just to show = that it=20 works.  it didn't look complicated, but I wasn't quite sure how it=20 worked.  Thanks for any help you can give a budding inventor=20 :)
------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BDBC87.4E1BE620-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 14:53:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27211; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:50:52 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <6d6c902b.35c23a2e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:42:04 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: newman-l@emachine.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Question I have been wanting to ask for a long time Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"ASN021.0.2f6.tmZmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5481 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I have a question that has been on my mind for a long time. When a magnetic flux is traveling in the core of a transformer, and the core is not saturated, there is flux on the outside of the core in the air. This is the flux that cuts the coil on the secondary. It seems to me that if the core is not saturated, then this flux would not take a path thru the air, but take a path of less resistance which would be the core, seeing that it is not fully saturated yet. Why does flux travel outside the core when it would have a path of less resistance thru the ferrite core? Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 15:39:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05472; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35C26D53.4EB@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:20:19 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Question I have been wanting to ask for a long time References: <6d6c902b.35c23a2e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"u23ft3.0.IL1.9Ramr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5482 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Hi all, > I have a question that has been on my mind for a long time. > When a magnetic flux is traveling in the core of a transformer, and the core > is not saturated, there is flux on the outside of the core in the air. This is > the flux that cuts the coil on the secondary. It seems to me that if the core > is not saturated, then this flux would not take a path thru the air, but take > a path of less resistance which would be the core, seeing that it is not fully > saturated yet. Why does flux travel outside the core when it would have a path > of less resistance thru the ferrite core? > Thanks, > Butch LaFonte Flux, just like current, prefers the path of least resistance, it does not exclusivly take the lowest resistance path however. The ammount of flux flowing through the air will depend on the ratio of resistance between the core and the air paths. In a DC circuit, the majority of the flux takes the path of least resistance, but some current does flow through all the higher resistance paths. The magnetic case you describe is acting in this same way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 15:56:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10354; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:54:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:54:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980731215742.0069b294@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:57:42 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Ion Propulsion: How does it work and can a homemade one be made Resent-Message-ID: <"vD6DV1.0.hX2.1jamr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5483 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:29 PM 7/31/98 -0600, you wrote: >Hello all. In a recent issue of Popular Science (not the last, but the one before I believe) they announced the launching of a satellite that used Ion Propulsion as it's main drive mechanism rather than fuel. It still had to be run off of solar cells, so it was severely underpowered, but even at that low of power it could still travel, though with VERY slow acceleration. The article kind of explained it, but I didn't quite understand it, I found it rather vague. Find some info on tesla coils or votage multipliers. The tesla stuff ought to tell you how to make a pinwheel for the coil that will spin with "ionic wind".I think I read recently that voltage multipliers would do the same thing. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 16:27:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23244; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:22:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:22:52 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Thornson pendulum test Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:23:26 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35c55057.154227467@mail-hub> References: <26a007c8.35c1bba1@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <26a007c8.35c1bba1@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EAenY2.0.-g5.B7bmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5484 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:42:08 EDT, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: >On 31/07/1998 13:33:11é), rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au a wrotet : > ><< Sorry JLN, all I see is a small stick attached to the side of a big > block. It doesn't prove a thing. > Regards, > >> > >Hi Robin, > >Have you a better proposition ?, I suggest you to read the document from >Thomas >Valone "Inertial propulsion: the Thornson EZKL drives" and also the document >from the same author "Inertial Propulsion: Concept and Experiment") PACE >Newsletter vol 7-1, 7-4 and Vol 9-4... Have you read these papers ? No not yet. I realise I was a bit curt in my previous message. What I was trying to say is that in your attempt to show the detail of the experiment, you seem to have lost the big picture (literally, not figuratively). I would like to see a photo taken from a distance of about 3-4 meters with no zoom, so that the whole setup can be seen. (Particularly the suspension). > >Sincerely, > >Jean-Louis > > Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 16:41:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26050; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:37:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:37:55 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:01:46 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: The INE Database Files (128) Have Been Updated Resent-Message-ID: <"GRB8T3.0.yM6.JLbmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5485 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: NEW for July 31: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ Most New Data Files are at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT All new revisions are in the file: http://www.padrak.com/ine/REVISIONS.html ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Jul. 31, 1998 Updated: The INE Database Files 128 Device Database Files, plus The 4 Summary Listing Files: By Device Name By Inventor Name By Interest Criteria By Commercialization Criteria Site Counter = 258,799 See: http://www.padrak.com/ine/DBGUIDE.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 16:53:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19739; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:46:34 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Floating TIE box Test Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:38:55 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35c75364.155007708@mail-hub> References: <1f887471.35c2106e@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1f887471.35c2106e@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Jp7ol3.0.5q4.MTbmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5486 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:43:57 EDT, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: [snip] >All pictures and videos are availible at : >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/TIEwater.htm > >Sincerely, > >Jean-Louis Naudin (France) If the box is slightly heavier on one side, then the tilt of the box will cause more water to be expelled from under the box, due to vibrations, on the one side, than on the other. Try adding some small weights inside the box, on what is currently the trailing edge, and see if it makes a difference. I suspect the box may go in the other direction. I may have suggested the wrong side of the box, so try both. If it is a true inertial drive, then it should always go in the same direction (though at different speeds), independent of the tilt of the box. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 16:59:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21533; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:56:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:56:04 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Question I have been wanting to ask for a long time Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:48:36 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35c8563d.155736849@mail-hub> References: <6d6c902b.35c23a2e@aol.com> <35C26D53.4EB@tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <35C26D53.4EB@tiac.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-Cb9_2.0.LG5.Hcbmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5487 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:20:19 -0700, Bob Shannon wrote: >HLafonte@aol.com wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> I have a question that has been on my mind for a long time. >> When a magnetic flux is traveling in the core of a transformer, and the core >> is not saturated, there is flux on the outside of the core in the air. This is >> the flux that cuts the coil on the secondary. It seems to me that if the core >> is not saturated, then this flux would not take a path thru the air, but take >> a path of less resistance which would be the core, seeing that it is not fully >> saturated yet. Why does flux travel outside the core when it would have a path >> of less resistance thru the ferrite core? >> Thanks, >> Butch LaFonte > >Flux, just like current, prefers the path of least resistance, it does >not exclusivly take the lowest resistance path however. > >The ammount of flux flowing through the air will depend on the ratio of >resistance between the core and the air paths. > >In a DC circuit, the majority of the flux takes the path of least >resistance, but some current does flow through all the higher resistance >paths. > >The magnetic case you describe is acting in this same way. If I'm not mistaken, then the voltage induced in the secondary windings, is primarily due to the flux in the core, not the leakage flux anyway. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 18:05:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16254; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:58:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:58:38 -0700 Message-ID: <35C25E07.8107389A@harti.com> Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 02:15:04 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: Gravitational converter addendums online Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Rowla.0.pz3.zWcmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5488 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: at: http://www.overunity.com/gb/index.htm Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 18:40:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10523; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:39:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:39:25 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <94e016dd.35c26f64@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:29:07 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Question, wanting to ask (Robin) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"GQZLR3.0.La2.B7dmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5489 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-31 19:56:32 EDT, you write: << If I'm not mistaken, then the voltage induced in the secondary windings, is primarily due to the flux in the core, not the leakage flux anyway. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk >> Robin, How can this be if the flux is in the core, and the windings are outside the core? Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 19:16:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16931; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:14:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:14:46 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:05:23 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: newman-l@emachine.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: What I believe happens in a transformer (Butch) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"EEBuP2.0.T84.Kedmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5490 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all, I believe that the great majority of the flux stays in the core of the transformer. How the flux "cuts" the windings that are outside the the core, I believe takes place like this.> The VERY SMALL amount of flux that is outside the core "cuts" the windings as the field starts to expand or collapse. The current flow that is induced in the windings, even though it is very, very, small, opens up a low resistance path for the core flux to expand or collapse out of the core. It's as though the core flux now "thinks" that the coil windings are ferro-magnetic as far as resistance to flux passage is concerned. In other words, the flux stays in the core all the way around and then "jumps" up to the coil windings as it follows the flux started in the windings by the very weak outside flux cutting the coils and inducing a current. In a way the coils are as good a path for flux when they have a small "priming" current to jump to as the flux would if the coils were a ferro-magnetic material. Comments, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 19:46:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA22231; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:43:50 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Question, wanting to ask (Robin) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 02:36:23 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35c27e49.165991291@mail-hub> References: <94e016dd.35c26f64@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <94e016dd.35c26f64@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kB_MN.0.ER5.a3emr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5492 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:29:07 EDT, HLafonte@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-07-31 19:56:32 EDT, you write: ><< If I'm not mistaken, then the voltage induced in the secondary > windings, is primarily due to the flux in the core, not the leakage > flux anyway. > Regards, > Robin van Spaandonk >> >Robin, >How can this be if the flux is in the core, and the windings are outside the >core? >Butch I believe Maxwell's equations only require that the windings *encompass* a changing flux, not that they are necessarily cut by it. But I'm on shaky ground here, as this is not my strong suit. Perhaps someone better versed in EM theory will provide a better explanation? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 19:44:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09989; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:40:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:40:33 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What I believe happens in a transformer (Butch) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 02:41:11 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35c37f57.166260396@mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1cWTI3.0.-R2.X0emr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5491 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:05:23 EDT, HLafonte@aol.com wrote: >To all, >I believe that the great majority of the flux stays in the core of the >transformer. How the flux "cuts" the windings that are outside the the core, I >believe takes place like this.> > The VERY SMALL amount of flux that is outside the core "cuts" the windings as >the field starts to expand or collapse. The current flow that is induced in >the windings, even though it is very, very, small, opens up a low resistance >path for the core flux to expand or collapse out of the core. It's as though Lorentz force law says that the result always tries to resist the cause. IOW the current in the secondary will be such that it tries to resist the change in flux. It will not "help it". [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jul 31 22:51:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA23344; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:49:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:49:44 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <762291a8.35c2aa82@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 01:41:21 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: What I believe happens in a transformer (Butch) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"uKfSC1.0.fi5.tngmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5493 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-07-31 22:44:11 EDT, you write: << Lorentz force law says that the result always tries to resist the cause. IOW the current in the secondary will be such that it tries to resist the change in flux. It will not "help it". [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk >> Robin, The flux that is generated by the secondary, if I understand it right, travels thru the core to the primary and causes more current to flow in the primary. Thats why when the secondary circuit is open, very little, to no current flows in the primary circuit. So in a way the beginning of flux build up in the secondary coil due to current flow in it's windings, in the end result causes more primary flux to flow that in turn increases the current and flux to increase in the secondary. I see the secondary in this case helping increase the flux from the primary not resisting it's change. Robin, I think the closed loop core of the transformer is not fully understood by a lot of people including me. All the physics and electrical literature I have show the flux in the core and never outside it! This is not the whole story. Flux lines of force have to "cut the coil" for a voltage/current to flow.