From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 1 01:58:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA32607; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 01:58:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 01:58:16 -0700 Message-ID: <20000801085742.8139.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 01:57:42 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"13DgH.0.Jz7.d4fXv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16351 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: A Simple Reminder Dont work for the Police State. I dont. http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/4phase.html ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 1 12:19:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA15195; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:18:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:18:31 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01bffbed$85372d70$4f50fea9@FS11> From: "ATG" To: Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:20:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"Gy9FX.0.6j3.7AoXv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16352 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Watch! Two projects to watch are; www.geo600.uni-hannover.de Was Einstein's theory of General Relativity correct? They are using Lasers to detect gravity waves. http://scmlwww.naka.jaeri.go.jp/ A massive 13 Tesla Superconducting Magnet. For confidential communications: PGP Public Key available at http://web.wt.net/~atg0317/ATG.asc, download as text. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 1 12:54:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02459; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:53:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:53:12 -0700 Message-Id: <200008011953.PAA09659@maynard.mail.mindspring.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:47:38 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mpgvd2.0.Gc.egoXv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16353 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: 16C61 PIC? Anyone here know where I can find a few DIP type 16C61 PICs? Digikey and Mouser don't seem to have them... --Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 1 15:52:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA16508; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 15:51:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 15:51:03 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:50:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: "Kyle R. Mcallister" cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: 16C61 PIC? In-Reply-To: <200008011953.PAA09659@maynard.mail.mindspring.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ai-4M3.0.m14.MHrXv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16354 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 1 Aug 2000, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > Anyone here know where I can find a few DIP type 16C61 PICs? Digikey and > Mouser don't seem to have them... > > --Kyle R. Mcallister > Hi Kyle, I find it odd that they don't carry the 61! It appears the 16C621 will replace the 61. Did you write the code for it yourself? On first glance, the only thing that is different between the 61 and the 621 functionally is the location of the general-purpose registers. (The 16C621 actually has more of them.) You'd probably have to modify your code to correct for this. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 2 08:31:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA23141; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:30:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:30:50 -0700 Message-ID: <003001bffc96$5a59ed00$f7d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:28:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01BFFC74.D2A07440" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Et0t71.0.Qf5.gw3Yv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16355 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Jesus virus This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BFFC74.D2A07440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just heard that there is a new email virus entitled "It takes guts to = say Jesus". It may be a hoax, but I figured I would caution everyone = anyway. :) ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BFFC74.D2A07440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just heard that there is a new email virus = entitled "It=20 takes guts to say Jesus". It may be a hoax, but I figured I would = caution=20 everyone anyway. :)
------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BFFC74.D2A07440-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 2 09:28:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA13335; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:27:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:27:01 -0700 From: "David Rosignoli" Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Reply-to: drdaveor@enter.net To: "Chris O'Barr" , X-CC-Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:26:37 +400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Jesus virus X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.1t, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <39884bbd.3065.0@enter.net> X-User-Info: 192.91.146.34 Resent-Message-ID: <"gHEqQ.0.BG3.Kl4Yv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16356 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a hoax. Check out http://www.vmyths.com/hoax.cfm?id=91&page=3 >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BFFC74.D2A07440 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >I just heard that there is a new email virus entitled "It takes guts to = >say Jesus". It may be a hoax, but I figured I would caution everyone = >anyway. :) > >------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BFFC74.D2A07440 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 3 09:13:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA20891; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:11:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:11:55 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <63.940003e.26baf3a7@aol.com> Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 12:11:19 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Resent-Message-ID: <"IlpY8.0.A65.BdPYv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16357 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Anyone know diameter of DNA helix? Hello all, I have been able to find out that a DNA helix turn is about 34 angstroms along the length of the strand, but I can't find the diameter of the DNA. What does this have to do with this list topic, you might ask? Well, since the DNA geometry is so unique I thought it would be interesting to put together a scaled electrical antenna (or two) and see if they have any interesting characteristics. This would not be like a helical antenna which has one conductor and a ground plane. But to do this I need to know the DNA geometry so I can scale it. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 3 11:57:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA23059; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:56:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:56:19 -0700 Message-ID: From: Jim Dickenson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [FG]: Anyone know diameter of DNA helix? Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 14:54:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"sh6y8.0.8e5.J1SYv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16358 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ken: Please see http://www.wisc.edu/wisteb/materials/modl_bld/DNA-parameters.html. The diameter is 20A. - Jim Dickenson. > -----Original Message----- > From: Keasy@aol.com [SMTP:Keasy@aol.com] > Sent: 03 August, 2000 12:11 PM > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: [FG]: Anyone know diameter of DNA helix? > > Hello all, > I have been able to find out that a DNA helix turn is about 34 > angstroms > along the length of the strand, but I can't find the diameter of the DNA. > What does this have to do with this list topic, you might ask? Well, > since the DNA geometry is so unique I thought it would be interesting to > put > together a scaled electrical antenna (or two) and see if they have any > interesting characteristics. This would not be like a helical antenna > which > has one conductor and a ground plane. > But to do this I need to know the DNA geometry so I can scale it. > > > > > Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 3 16:40:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA05793; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:40:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:40:02 -0700 Message-ID: <398A01AE.5E58AE0C@harti.com> Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 01:35:10 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Free Energy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lbDaT2.0.LQ1.IBWYv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16359 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [Fwd: Hoola Hoop Engine & Compressed Air Engine] -------- Original Message -------- Betreff: Hoola Hoop Engine & Compressed Air Engine Datum: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 11:14:28 +1200 Von: "Chris McFarlane" Rückantwort: chrismac@xtra.co.nz An: Stefan Hartmann Stefan could you post this to jlnlabs ? My posts don't go through. I'm not sure how to contact the moderator, is it jln ? --------------------- Don't think i've seen mention onlist of this Hoola Hoop Radial Engine. http://www.proserpine.com/Kokua/ Here's a description of it's development directions, H2+steam : http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/rotary.html I'm not sure if this compressed air engine is different to the Negre engine. http://www.wmin.ac.uk/EngSci/DTD/car.html Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 4 13:48:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22164; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 13:47:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 13:47:24 -0700 Message-ID: <398B2B83.61CE2A3@astra.ukf.net> Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 21:45:56 +0100 From: Gavin Dingley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Anyone know diameter of DNA helix? References: <63.940003e.26baf3a7@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UyKL22.0.DQ5.SloYv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16360 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Ken, just one thought:- If you are planning to calculate it's resonant frequency then you will have to take into account the permitivity of the fluid in which it is held, this will slow the propagating wave right down (this permitivity is quite high!). Just my two pence worth, Gavin Keasy@aol.com wrote: > Hello all, > I have been able to find out that a DNA helix turn is about 34 angstroms > along the length of the strand, but I can't find the diameter of the DNA. > What does this have to do with this list topic, you might ask? Well, > since the DNA geometry is so unique I thought it would be interesting to put > together a scaled electrical antenna (or two) and see if they have any > interesting characteristics. This would not be like a helical antenna which > has one conductor and a ground plane. > But to do this I need to know the DNA geometry so I can scale it. > > > Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 4 20:03:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA31949; Fri, 4 Aug 2000 20:02:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 20:02:24 -0700 From: RoConroy@aol.com Message-ID: <65.7fd1b1d.26bcdd9c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 23:01:48 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Anyone know diameter of DNA helix? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"DPFJc2.0.6p7.0FuYv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16361 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 8/4/00 3:48:19 PM Central Daylight Time, gavin.dingley@astra.ukf.net writes: << Hi Ken, just one thought:- If you are planning to calculate it's resonant frequency then you will have to take into account the permitivity of the fluid in which it is held, this will slow the propagating wave right down (this permitivity is quite high!). >> If Ken is trying to work with the resonant frequency of the DNA, he might have to take in consideration it's internal geometry. It has 10 base pairs per helix turn with a twist angle between one base pair and the next of 36 degrees. Using Golden Mean elements, one can show that the base compound of Nature is the icosidodecahedron, whose hemisphere spacing is comprised of 10 elemental lengths with interval angles of 36 degrees. Bob http://www.geocities.com/goldenmeandomes/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 5 06:36:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02090; Sat, 5 Aug 2000 06:36:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 06:36:07 -0700 Message-ID: <398C199C.92975F8F@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 09:41:48 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------79D52045DFD836A2CB26F4E6" Resent-Message-ID: <"yt6DQ2.0.RW.7X1Zv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16362 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [Fwd: Power Online Newsletter] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------79D52045DFD836A2CB26F4E6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I thought everyone might be interested in subscribing to the following newsletter. MJ --------------79D52045DFD836A2CB26F4E6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from newswire.vertical.net (newswire.vertical.net [146.145.74.77]) by uplink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07670 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 00:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200008030407.AAA07670@uplink.net> Received: from newswire (172.16.0.77:4533) by newswire.vertical.net (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00008A77@newswire.vertical.net>; Thu, 3 Aug 2000 0:00:48 -0400 From: Power Online Subject: Power Online Newsletter To: enki@CSRLINK.NET Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 00:00:46 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 ============================================================ Power Online Newsletter -- http://www.poweronline.com Volume 3 Issue 74 Wednesday, August 02, 2000 ============================================================ Welcome to this issue of Power Online's (http://www.poweronline.com) electronic newsletter. Power Online strives to keep power generation professionals tuned to the trends shaping their niche markets and the overall utility industry. Standard & Poor’s recently selected RKS Research & Consulting to conduct a broad national survey of state utility regulators and commission staff. Nationwide interviewing is set for the third quarter, with a full report expected by the end of the year. RKS plans to get opinions from the regulatory and policy community on a variety of issues, including the regulator's role in a deregulated environment and reliability and transmission policy. For more details, check out Latest Headlines, and Power Online plans to keep you posted as this report develops. Until next time, take care. ACM ******** 3M SOLUTIONS ******** Looking for a lightweight, comfortable respirator when you're working in the garden, mowing the lawn or sweeping out the garage? Try 3M's Model 8210 or Model 9210 disposable respirator for protection against plant pollen, grass clippings or nuisance dust particles. Find Model 8210 at http://www.poweronline.com/welcome/model8210 and Model 9210 at http://www.poweronline.com/welcome/model9210 ******** FEATURED ARTICLES selected by April C. Murelio **** 1) Power Vision by David Wojick: King Coal’s silver bullet? 2) DTE Energy Technologies to develop 400 kW turbine generator 3) Polar Works gas turbine inlet air cooling prototype proves successful 4) News and Analysis ------------------------------------------------------------ 1) Power Vision by David Wojick: King Coal’s silver bullet? New stuff in the top of the NOx control issue tree—Electro-Catalytic Oxidation This month we discovered a new high level, top of the tree technology—Electro- Catalytic Oxidation from Powerspan. So high level that it ranks with SCR and SNCR as basic post-combustion NOx control technologies. That's pretty basic. If you look at the NOx control issue tree, you will see that ECO has been added right between SNCR and SCR. The ECO cost estimates are exciting indeed. http://www.poweronline.com/read/nl20000801/201633 2) DTE Energy Technologies to develop 400 kW turbine generator DTE Energy Technologies, an unregulated subsidiary of DTE Energy, signed agreements with Pratt & Whitney Canada and The Turbo Genset Co. of the United Kingdom to develop a 400 kW turbine generator, said Paul Horst, president of DTE Energy Technologies. http://www.poweronline.com/read/nl20000801/201634 3) Polar Works gas turbine inlet air cooling prototype proves successful Polar Works (Saratoga Springs, NY) recently announced the successful integrated prototype operation of its new, desiccant-based inlet air cooling system designed for gas turbine power plants. The prototype study—conducted by AIL Research (Princeton, NJ)—showed the new system can supply cold, dry air using a method that simultaneously dehumidifies and cools the air, said Thomas C. Tillman, president of Polar Works. http://www.poweronline.com/read/nl20000801/201635 4) News and Analysis Visit the Power Online News and Analysis page for the latest industry headlines and feature articles. http://www.poweronline.com/read/nl19991209/40575 ******** EDITOR'S CHOICE PRODUCTS ******** 1) Renewable Energy Software 2) Fuel Cell Power Conversion System with Utility Grid Interface 3) Turbine/Compressor Cleaning Chemicals & Hardware 4) Product Showcase ------------------------------------------------------------ 1) Renewable Energy Software RETScreen Software Version 99 is designed to evaluate Renewable Energy Technology (RET) projects quickly and effectively. With this software, users are able to prepare a preliminary evaluation of the annual energy production, costs and... http://www.poweronline.com/read/nl20000801/201640 2) Fuel Cell Power Conversion System with Utility Grid Interface This new PowerGate Power Conversion System with GridLink Utility Grid Interface is for fuel cell distributed power generation systems. The interface allows fuel cells to operate just like "plug-in" appliances and will enable them to operate in a grid-independent or grid-parallel mode. The interface will be... -- SatCon Technology, Cambridge, MA http://www.poweronline.com/read/nl20000801/201641 3) Turbine/Compressor Cleaning Chemicals & Hardware Environmentally friendly products for in-service cleaning of gas turbine engines. Remove foulants online or offline to increase power output, reduce Heat Rate and... -- eTurbines, Inc., Houston, TX http://www.poweronline.com/read/nl20000801/201642 4) Product Showcase Power Online and its editor, April C. Murelio, select some of the best new products in the industry and present them to you in our Product Showcase. http://www.poweronline.com/read/nl19991209/40576 ******** ADVERTISEMENT ******** Need help finding customers online? bCentral can help. Register your site on over 400 search engines, target your banner ads, create a customer list for direct marketing, and more. Visit http://www.bcentral.com to drive your business forward. ******** COMPANY AND PRODUCT SPOTLIGHT ******** For 25 years, EMA has been the innovative information and problem-solving resource for the technology and business management needs of utilities, public works, municipalities, and manufacturers. A leader in implementing new concepts, including organization development, asset management, competitiveness assessments, and now, e-business, our consulting services focus on results. http://www.poweronline.com/storefronts/ema.html ******** ADVERTISEMENT ******** Windows 2000 Is Now Available! Learn more about how you can take advantage of Microsoft Windows® 2000, the latest in Microsoft's business operating systems. Visit the Windows site http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/ for product information, reviews, and to check compatibility or find out how to buy it http://shop.microsoft.com/store/home/homepage.asp. ******** INSIDE POWER ONLINE ******** 1) Book Selection -- Fluid Power Dynamics 2) Career Center @ Power Online 3) Off Lease Equipment 1) Book Selection -- Fluid Power Dynamics Keith Mobley Fluid Power Dynamics is a 12-chapter book in two sections covering the basics of fluid power through hydraulic system components and troubleshooting. The second section covers pneumatics from basics through to troubleshooting. 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All product names contained herein are the trademarks of their respective holders. --------------79D52045DFD836A2CB26F4E6-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 5 07:27:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA15762; Sat, 5 Aug 2000 07:27:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 07:27:18 -0700 Message-ID: <398C2578.5361B5E7@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 10:32:25 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" References: <398AA304.22925.DEAAB5@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zVVSz3.0.4s3.5H2Zv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16363 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Response to reply from Milan > > On 1 Aug 2000, at 13:41, > Milan Manchich wrote: > > > Hi Mike, > > How you test resist of water or electrolite? I set up a cell with a certain "projected" resistance and then test the resistance. It is usually pretty close. Water with electrolyte isn't that resistive if it is in a small space between the electrode plates. The only way to really "shape" the water conductor is to put it between something. In that way you can control both it's thickness and contact surface cross sectional area just like with the solid metal conductor. It more or less "mirrors" the size of the solid conductor with thickness still being adjustable. > > > Let me say few practical words about serial cells. > > If you build serial cells electrolyzer very precious as mechanical people do > > then your input voltage will divide almost mathematical exept first one and > > last one. The "voltage drop", which I do figure in from the normal formulas in the next part of my paper. Voltage drop is entirely dependent upon the total number of cells/resistors in your circuit i.e.; 1 cell, all voltage drops across that one, 50 cells, 1/50th of the total voltage drops across each one. > > > But range of voltage per cell is in relation with drawing current and > > "power" from power supply. Your minimum per cell must be from 1,9 to 2.3 V > > per cell. Ok, not a problem. You first have to decide how much H2 you want to produce and then set up the cell(s) to produce that amount. > Less is not productive..more is with losses. > > If you have 1.00 V per cell it meand that you haven't electrolystic process. That was just a first example, I have more in the next part which do account for that fact. The actual electrical potential is something like 1.4 volts but I use 2 volts in my examples just to be safe. > > > > > If your power supply can't give needed current then voltage will drop > > rapidly. Of course. That is why pre-planning to establish the exact resistance needed over the exact number of cells needed is important. > > > For example if you have power supply 100 V-- 1A. And if you connect 10 > > serial cell > > which draw 1 A then your voltage on the terminals will drop to 20 - 25V or > > cca 2 V per cell. > > Trust me it always happen. Of course it does Milan. For ten cells 1a is not even enough for ONE cell. You can hold 1a over 10 cells with the right input voltage but what would be the point? I address all of this in the next part which I hope to post sometime today. MJ > > > Milan > > > > > > > > Michael Johnston wrote: > > > > > energy21 - http://www.Fortunecity.com/greenfield/bp/16 > > > > > > Multi-Cell Theory, Update (Resistance) > > > By M. Johnston > > > 7/28/00 > > > > > > Several months ago I wrote a little paper on the advantages of using > > > multiple electrolysis cells, connected to form a Series Circuit, over a > > > single cell or even cells connected in parallel. In looking back on this > > > paper I still feel that I was correct in the general idea that I tried > > > to present even though I now realize that I was wrong in some respects > > > and, in addition, did not adequately explain the concept that I was > > > trying to relay. This paper is intended to both clarify and improve upon > > > those original ideas in several ways and to introduce a new design for > > > series cells. > > > Speaking of series cells I would like to briefly review some facts > > > about series circuits. In a series circuit the same current flows > > > through every part. It makes no difference how many parts or devices you > > > have. As long as the identical current passes through each, it is a > > > series circuit. The current that flows through a series circuit depends > > > upon the source voltage and the total circuit resistance. When there is > > > only one load (cell) in a circuit IT provides the total resistance > > > (other than the resistance of the wires and the internal resistance of > > > the power source). However, when there are a series of loads the total > > > circuit resistance is the sum of the resistances of the individual loads > > > (cells). So if a circuit has five loads of one ohm resistance each it > > > has a total resistance of 5 x 1 = 5 ohms. > > > To find the current that a series circuit will draw you determine the > > > total circuit resistance by adding the resistances of each load (cell). > > > Then you use Ohm's law (I=E/R) to find the current. In the above example > > > if we were using a 12 volt power source then our current through the > > > circuit would be I= 12volts/5ohms and so I = 2.4 amps. > > > Once the current is known it is easy to figure the total power used. P > > > = I2R = (2.4 x 2.4) x 5 = 28.8 watts of power used in our example. An > > > easier way is to multiply the source voltage by the current; 12 x 2.4 = > > > 28.8. > > > Next the voltage drop. I think that this is a much misunderstood > > > concept as I see it applied to electrolysis cells. For example, in my > > > earlier paper I mentioned a 2 volt drop per cell. I got that number > > > quoted to me by someone and as my experimental data was close to that > > > number I accepted it as such. Other people believe that a certain > > > minimum voltage is required for electrolysis to take place and confuse > > > that number with the voltage drop. In actuality Faraday's law says that > > > the amount of H2 released in an electrolysis cell depends entirely upon > > > the amount of current which passes. If you can maintain a high enough > > > current at 1 volt it should still have the same effect as the same > > > current at 300 volts. The only difference being that at 300 volts you > > > could get that current to be maintained over substantially more cells. > > > Back to the voltage drop. In a series circuit the total voltage dropped > > > across all of the loads is equal to the source voltage. Simple isn't it? > > > If you run a current from a 12 volt power source through one cell your > > > voltage drop will be 12 volts. If you run current from a 12 volt power > > > source through 300 cells your voltage drop will be 12 volts. In the > > > single cell all of the voltage will be dropped across that one cell. In > > > 300 cells (of equal resistance) the voltage drop per cell is determined > > > by multiplying current by resistance (E = IR). In this case our voltage > > > drop per cell would depend upon finding our current and resistance. Say > > > we have a total resistance of 2 ohms across all of our 300 cells. We can > > > then find the current that this setup would draw by using the formula I > > > = E/R = 12volts/2ohms = 6amps. So, knowing this we can say that E = IR = > > > 6amps x 2ohms = 12 volts dropped across the 300 cells. So then, if we > > > want to know the voltage drop in each cell we would have to find the > > > resistance of each cell by dividing our total resistance by the total > > > number of cells (since all have equal resistances) R individual = > > > 2ohms/300 = .0066666 ohms per cell. Then we can find our voltage drop > > > for each cell by using the formula E = IR = 6amps x .0066666 ohms = > > > .0399996 volts per cell. If we then multiply our voltage drop per cell > > > by the total number of cells (300) we find that our total voltage > > > dropped across all of the cells is 11.99988 volts. > > > This is just an example. It is not intended to be necessarily workable > > > because there indeed might be a minimum voltage per cell in order for > > > electrolysis to take place. I have not disproven that to date in an > > > experimental manner and so for all examples that follow I will allow for > > > more voltage being "left" to drop over the last cell. > > > The first factor that I believe needs to be specifically addressed in > > > relation to series cells is resistance. I have seen resistance losses in > > > electrolysis cells commonly quoted as being from 40 - 60 % as though > > > this were some kind of "given", unchangeable. From the most basic > > > understanding of Ohm's law it soon beams apparent that this is not the > > > case. No circuit has a certain "built in" resistance unless someone > > > builds it in. To assume a "standard" resistance for all possible designs > > > of electrolysis cells is like saying that no matter how you design an > > > electrical circuit, or which specific components you include, or > > > exclude, it will always have exactly the same resistance in it! > > > Obviously this is not true or we wouldn't have computers would we? Or > > > for a simpler analogy, what if you put a 1200cc motorcycle motor into a > > > truck tractor? Would you complain then because that setup wouldn't work > > > properly? From that evidence you could come to believe that an internal > > > combustion motor could never be able to power a big truck. Someday > > > though someone would figure out that perhaps a larger or different kind > > > of motor would work better. > > > In electrolysis cells resistance plays just as big a role as in any > > > other electrical circuit. You CAN adjust this factor within a very wide > > > set of parameters, I hope to illustrate this in this paper and to show > > > how this ability to design a specific resistance into a series of cells > > > can and will, I believe, allow the construction of a series cell which > > > is efficient enough to separate a sufficient quantity of water to > > > provide H2(g) to run a car for example. I have seen many people (myself > > > included) discussing many and varied designs for electrolysis cells but > > > I have yet to see anyone show WHY they believe that their design would > > > work. People just seem to accept certain things like "larger electrodes > > > liberate more H2" without really going into the "why" of it. That's too > > > bad because that is where the answer lies. > > > First, a look at Ohm's law. The following simple formulas establish the > > > basis for most of the examples I will use in this paper. I am sure that > > > they are already familiar to most readers but I include them anyway in > > > an attempt to be thorough. I = E/R, R = E/I, E = IR (I =Current, E = > > > Volts and R = Resistance) and finally P = I2R for power losses. > > > Also important is the formula for finding how much H2 will be released > > > from water in a given amount of time by the application of a specific > > > electrical current. This formula is; > > > m = .0000105 x I x t where I = Current, M = mass of H2 produced (in > > > grams) and t = time. The number (.0000105) is obtained by dividing the > > > atomic mass of the substance to be separated (H2) by it's valence > > > (Faraday's Second Law). > > > First I want to show how much current must pass through an electrolysis > > > cell in order to liberate the H2 contained in one liter of water in one > > > hour. That should be a sufficient amount to run many types of small > > > internal combustion motors and for this example I would like to > > > concentrate primarily on such motors. So if we take the mass of H2 to be > > > produced; 2.016 gm/mole x 55 mole/liter = 110.88 gmH2/liter. Then taking > > > that number and dividing it by .0000105 gives us 10,560,000 amps which > > > must pass through our cell in one hour or, dividing that number by 60 > > > gives us 176,000 amps per minute or, dividing that by 60 gives us > > > 2933.33 amps per second. Pretty big current isn't it? Not too many small > > > generators can deliver that can they? Remember though, that is the > > > amount that would have to pass through ONE cell (ignoring any catalysts > > > for now). What if we were to divide that current up among a group of > > > cells? A much smaller amount of current would have to pass through them > > > all as each one would produce an amount of H2 equal to the quantity of > > > current passing through it. As long as the SAME current flowed through > > > all the cells their cumulative output of H2 would be all of their > > > individual outputs added together and would equal the amount produced by > > > a much larger current passing through ONE cell. > > > If we divide the above total current (2933.33amps per cell) by 50 cells > > > we find that we must maintain a current of 58.66 amps in each of those > > > cells to separate the desired quantity of H2 from water in the desired > > > amount of time. That seems to be a much easier amount of current to > > > produce and work with doesn't it? So there we have the first of the > > > necessary factors for our Ohm's law equations. We have established the > > > amount of H2 gas that we need to produce to run a specific device and > > > have then gone on to find the current that we need to maintain in a > > > certain number of electrolysis cells to give us the desired quantity of > > > H2 gas in the necessary amount of time. > > > Next we must determine either our desired voltage or resistance. I will > > > use voltage as I want to get more deeply into the resistance factor > > > later. Let's pretend we want to use an automotive alternator to produce > > > our H2 gas, We can assume then that we have a 12 volt power source. Now > > > that we have this information we can find out what our maximum total > > > resistance must be across all the cells and in each cell for this device > > > to work as intended. To do this we use Ohm's formula of R = E/I which is > > > expressed here as R= 12volts/58.66amps, and so R = .205 ohms total > > > resistance across all of our cells or .205amps/50(cells) = .00409 ohms > > > resistance per cell. It seems simple and straightforward enough doesn't > > > it? > > > What about resistance though? How is it determined and how can it be > > > changed? Many books have tables of the resistances of various metals. I > > > won't bother to list them here. I would like to focus on copper. It is a > > > good conductor with low resistance. Silver is a better conductor with > > > lower resistance but it is significantly more expensive and so less > > > easily available for most researchers. Copper is also actually fairly > > > inert and the right combination of electrode metal and type or > > > concentration of electrolyte needs to be found so that the electrodes do > > > not dissolve but that is for later. > > > The resistance of any material depends upon the number of free > > > electrons that the material has. One ampere is 6,280,000,000,000,000,000 > > > free electrons passing any given point in a conductor (such as a wire) > > > in one second. So a good conductor must have many free electrons > > > available to allow several amperes of current to flow. Since current is > > > a measurement of electrons passing a point in a conductor more free > > > electrons can be made available by using a thicker piece of metal so > > > that more current can flow. In the case of a battery or an electrolysis > > > cell this is already known. The larger the surface area of your > > > electrodes the more free electrons are available to cause the separation > > > of water. Also, don't forget that water (containing an electrolyte) is > > > our other conductor and by increasing the surface area of our solid > > > electrodes we are increasing the surface area of our water conductor > > > (and thereby lower it's resistance)as well! > > > As an example; a piece of copper 2cm high and 1cm wide will have twice > > > as many free electrons available at the point at which current is being > > > measured as a piece only 1cm wide by 1cm high. The piece that is twice > > > as high will conduct twice as much current. Since the amount of H2 that > > > is released by the electrolytic separation of water depends totally on > > > the amount of current that passes through the water then it seems > > > obviously desirable to have control of the resistance of the cell as > > > this is the factor which determines how much current flows and thereby > > > how much H2 is released. So when you increase the width or height of > > > your electrodes you are increasing their cross-sectional area. The > > > greater the cross-sectional area of your electrodes, the lower their > > > resistance. The lower their resistance, the more current flows. The more > > > current that flows, the more H2 that is released. > > > On the other side of the coin, if you increase the length of your > > > electrodes (in the direction of current flow) you increase your > > > resistance and lower the current flow. By doubling the length of a > > > conductor you double it's resistance (or conversely by cutting said > > > conductors length in half you also decrease it's resistance by one > > > half). This causes more of your available current to be converted into > > > heat energy and increases your power losses. Therefore, by choosing the > > > proper metal for a conductor, and making it with a certain cross-section > > > and length, you can produce any kind of resistance effect you want. > > > I thought that, at this point it would be good to figure out the > > > resistance of a piece of copper of a certain size so that researchers > > > might have a basis on which to figure the resistance of their cells. As > > > I said I feel that copper is the best metal to use for experimental > > > purposes. I decided to find the resistance of a piece of copper of 1 > > > sq/in by 1/4 inch thickness. This way you can much more easily figure > > > the resistance of any size electrode you might use. > > > If you look at a table of American Standard Wire Gauges you will see > > > that it gives you the dimensions and typical resistances of commercial > > > copper wire. From this table I selected B&S Gauge #2 wire. It has a > > > cross-sectional area of .258 inch (a little over a quarter inch) and it > > > is round rather than square so I am fudging just a bit. That aside I > > > believe that despite this my results will be close to being accurate so > > > here goes; the resistance of one thousand feet of this wire at 70 > > > degrees Fahrenheit is .159 ohms. So then the resistance of 500 feet > > > would be half of that or .159/2 = .0795 ohms. That is a piece of copper > > > 1/4 inch square in cross-sectional area by 500 feet long. Remember we > > > only want it to be 1/4 inch long so we have to keep going. I will keep > > > dividing it in half until I reach my desired length; > > > 250 feet of wire = .0795ohms/2 = .03975ohms per 250 feet > > > 125 feet of wire = .03975ohms/2 = .019875ohms per 125 feet > > > 62.5 feet of wire = .019875ohms/2 = .0099375ohms per 62.5 feet > > > 31.25 feet of wire = .0099375ohms/2 = .0049687ohms per 31.25 feet > > > 15.625 feet of wire = .0049687ohms/2 = .0024843ohms per 15.625 feet > > > 7.8125 feet of wire = .0024843ohms/2 = .0012421ohms per 7.8125 feet > > > 3.59125 feet of wire = .0012421ohms/2 = .000621ohms per 3.59125 feet > > > 1.795625 feet of wire = .000621ohms/2 = .0003105ohms per 1.795625 feet > > > .8978125 feet of wire = .0003105ohms/2 = .0001552ohms per .8978125 feet > > > .4489062 feet of wire = .0001552ohms/2 = .0000776ohms per .4489062 feet > > > .2244531 feet of wire = .0000776ohms/2 = .0000388ohms per .2244531 feet > > > .1122265 feet of wire = .0000388ohms/2 = .0000194ohms per .1122265 feet > > > .0561132 feet of wire = .0000194ohms/2 = .0000097ohms per .0561132 feet > > > .0280566 feet of wire = .0000097ohms/2 = .0000048ohms per .0280566 feet > > > And there is our quarter inch in length (roughly). Now we have the > > > resistance for a quarter inch cube of copper. Remember that if we > > > increase the surface area of our conductor we lower the resistance > > > again. By doubling the surface area we cut the resistance in half. We > > > wanted the number for a square inch of copper so we have to adjust the > > > numbers accordingly. > > > 1/4" = .0000048 ohms so 1/2" = .0000048/2 = .0000024ohms > > > 1/2" = .0000024ohms so 1" = .0000024/2 = .0000012ohms > > > There is the multiplier for figuring the resistance of your copper > > > electrodes. Find the number of square inches and multiply by the number > > > of ohms per square inch. Remember that they have to be 1/4 inch thick > > > for this to be accurate. > > > Just for fun let's imagine an electrolysis cell in which we have two > > > electrodes, each measuring 3" x 3". That would be 9 square inches each > > > or 18 square inches total. So we would take the one square inch that we > > > have the number for and double it to 2 square inches. That cuts the > > > resistance in half, so 2sq/in = .0000012ohms/2 = .0000006 ohms > > > 4sq/in = .0000006ohms/2 = .0000003ohms > > > 8sq/in = .0000003ohms/2 = .0000001ohms > > > 16sq/in = .0000001 ohms/2 = .00000005ohms > > > At 16 square inches of copper 1/4 inch thick we have reached nearly > > > zero resistance. The problem is that the conductor can only carry so > > > much current and the power source can only supply so much current. For > > > these reasons, even though near zero resistance would theoretically draw > > > an huge amount of current and consequently supply a proportionally huge > > > amount of H2, it isn't technically possible at this time. Therefore if > > > we use a series of cells which maintain a current of realistic > > > proportions across all of them we can engineer the setup to produce > > > almost any amount of H2 from water while staying within the paramaters > > > of real world possibility. Just as an added note, the #2 gauge wire I > > > started with has a rated current carrying capacity of 91-136amps with > > > rubber insulation or between 96-241amps with other insulation. These > > > amounts of current are fairly realistic in terms of what can be produced > > > by commonly available power sources. > > > I haven't factored in the resistance of the water and I don't have any > > > actual experimental data on the resistivity of water specifically but > > > for this paper I will ass ume that, if you place your electrodes as > > > close together as the thickness of one of them the resulting small > > > thickness of your water conductor will no more than double the total > > > cell resistance. In batteries a sheet of porous wood or rubber is > > > inserted between the electrode plates to prevent arcing between the > > > electrodes. > > > Automotive batteries make use of these principles to achieve a total > > > internal resistance of around 1.8ohms for the whole battery or 1.8/6 = > > > .03ohms per cell. Remember that lead is 12.76 times as resistive as > > > copper so if a copper plate were being used the resistance per cell > > > would be around .03/12.76 = .0235109ohms or 1.8/12.76 = .1410658ohms for > > > the whole battery. > > > How much current would a battery like the one above (with copper > > > electrodes) be able to draw from a 12volt power source? I = E/R = > > > 12/.1410658 = 85.066685 amps. Could it be made to draw more? Yes. > > > Increase the cross-sectional area of the electrodes and thereby reduce > > > it's resistance. How much H2 could be produced in a battery such as the > > > above (per cell)? Since m = .0000105 x a x t then m= .0000105 x > > > 85.066685 = .0008932001925 gm/sec x 6 cells = .005359201155 gm/sec for > > > the whole device or .3215520693 gm/min or 19.293124158 gm/hr. > > > End of part 1. > > > MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 5 11:46:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA31158; Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:45:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:45:48 -0700 Message-ID: <398C5FB5.C533998@harti.com> Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 20:40:53 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-_mJ62.0.cc7.S36Zv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16364 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Scalar circuit from Graham Gunderson From: Graham Gunderson Date: Sat Aug 5, 2000 0:23am Subject: non e-m barium excitation Hi, For anyone interested, I'll post one way to excite a barium magnet that doesn't completely rely on conventional EM. Using conventional EM alone will get you next to nowhere, as theorist Tom Bearden makes obvious in his papers about Floyd Sweet's use of barium ferrite magnets. I'll provide a description and schematic of a method which is very simple, albeit rather weak in effect. This circuit is vaguely related to other things in my work, so I ask you, my reader to please respect the copyright I place on the material. If you absolutely must reproduce this information without my consent, please at least do it with this unedited article included. The circuit I share here centers around a dual-voltage AC isolation transformer. This transformer (about 4" on its longest side) has a standard iron E-I core, and two wound sections separated by a section of plastic that insulates the two winding sections from each other. Each winding section is wound bifilar-style, with two parallel conductors. This is so you can use these conductors in series (240VAC) or paralell (120VAC), to match or change voltages. There is 5 kV of isolation between the two main coil sections, at least, as rated. The transformer is also a slight step up (will take 115 volts to 125 or vice versa) since the winding resistance must be compensated for while the thing is under load, trying to have an output near 120 VAC. (Or double the numbers for 240) The section that is slightly shorter (slight-step-up primary) is connected so that the two parallel wires on the outside of the winding bulk connect to hot and neutral of 120 VAC. The two wires which exit the inner part of the winding bulk, connect to a large AC oil capacitor of 24 uF capacity. This, notice is a bifilar arrangement since the 120 volt "hot" feed to the primary must travel clockwise (here) from the outside to the center of the winding bulk, "across" a 24 uF capacitor, and back counter-clockwise from inside to outside, returning to the mains. The inductive effects are well cancelled, but the primary does heat some because of the resistance of its windings, carrying current "through" the 24 uF cap. Placing a magnet near the transformer coil will not cause any vibration like a regular transformer will. The isolated side of the transformer has its two bifilar wires as well, for a total of four connections. Only one connection is used, from either conductor, at the outside (not the inside!) of the winding bulk there. A spade terminal there feeds a 2' wire that is pinned below the weight of a large BaFe magnet. It is best to "aim" the wire in diagonally from a corner in the case of blocks, or with rings, from the outside, with the wire "aiming" toward the edge of the inner diameter, as if you were filling a hollow donut with water and wished for it to swirl around. When I set this up I unplugged it after 30 seconds and lifted the magnet, sure enough (and to my surprise this time) there was a bit of oscillation in it, it had some of the activity I mention that feels like a faint and unstoppable vibration, like the ground would rumble from a train, which lasted for about 3 minutes or so before it began to fade. The strength of the oscillation is proportional to the size of the AC oil capacitor, which sets the AC current through the bifilar primary. The secondary must be left ungrounded. Measuring with a VOM indicated 7 millivolts of AC across the coil terminals of the secondary (though only one of the four is used). There is negligible induction. Less than 3 VAC was measured between any terminal on the isolated winding bulk and ground. So there is a small amount of AC, just a residual, present in the secondary. About as much as you might see on a nearby metal plate. However, when the digital VOM I was using was connected with only *one* probe to either wire on the outside of the secondary coil, the display would konk out, or just go over range as if I had connected it to something in excess of 1,000 volts. Touching the "hot" AC connections or the capacitor connections would not do this. I got a step up (480V) transformer out and touched its output with one probe - still no overload. The little bifilar transformer somehow was zapping the heck out of my meter, containing only at most 3 VAC against ground. It's completely electrically isolated. The resistance of the VOM is about 20 M-ohm. The "overload" would happen only on the outside of the secondary. Connected to the inside, it would not appear, and if any terminal on the secondary was grounded it went away too. This was curious, since a direct one terminal connection to 120V and higher didn't do the same thing. Only a connection to a terminal with no DC or AC potential present would hack the meter! (I verified the absence of conventional juice with a white LED and a neon bulb in a dark room - no light) Touching the output lead (from the outside of the secondary) while touching ground gives no zap or feeling of electricity. However, at the output end there can be a strong sensation of electrical "buzzing", like you get on your arm hair if you stand too close to something carrying more than a few kV of HVAC. Pipe this "buzzing" into a Ba magnet and it will buzz, too. I can share this experiment because it is not part of what I use and the level of excitation is low. Also I don't know if it would work with other transformers with different winding lengths, etc. But it is one example of how a Ba-ferrite magnet can be caused to excite (though slightly), with an invisible kind of hidden "energy" that carries no voltage, but zaps meters and disappears if it is grounded. bifilar pri 24uF 330V . 120 hot *----wwwwwwww----||---+ 120 ntr *----wwwwwwww---------+ ======== iron core nc--mmmmmmmm--nc coil +--mmmmmmmm--nc outside | coil inside end . end | (near core) \ +---------- | BaFe | | | ---------- Experimental Scalar Energizer Copyright 2000 Graham Gunderson . (please do not distribute w/o consent) . Graham PS the word "energy" above is used in the sense of Bearden's expositions - as an ordering in the ZPE flux that polarizes or structures it somehow. "energy" was not being used in the accepted sense which is both standard and self-contradictory: not used in the sense of "the capacity to do work". Energy is not the capacity to do work - work disorders energy, so how can energy be defined as the ability to disorder itself? That's a description of effects, not causes, as if to say "whe don't know what it is, but here's what it does". A more direct way is to see that only *order* can be disordered, random can hardly become more random, so I define energy as order - order in the substrate for all energy, which is the virtual photon flux which is the vacuum. Order, really, does not have so much to do with the "capacity to do work" - some "order" that has certain energy-related properties cac be used as a trigger, or structuring element for other energetic processes within an atom. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 5 15:16:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06446; Sat, 5 Aug 2000 15:15:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 15:15:42 -0700 Message-ID: <20000805221509.28212.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 15:15:09 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"3wfBk.0.Xa1.E89Zv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16365 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: EDM/ fwd from Tesla List/ Windows word pad idiosynchasies Original poster: "Bob Wroblewski" > Hi Y'all I happened across an article from EDN magazine, titled "Understanding electromagnetic fields and antenna radiation takes (almost) no math" by Ron Schmitt as an html and downloadable PDF on the web. Though not strictly a formal Tesla discussion, the near/far field energy transfer aspects are close to the mark. Find it by www.ednmag.com then "browse past issues of EDN" link, then march 2, 2000 issue, then title as above. Or try this path directly http://www.ednmag.com/ednmag/reg/2000/03022000/05ms624.htm Pretty fascinating stuff here, the URL works for me, but I cant understand why edit/copy/paste to Wordpad brings all the extra blue characters when they are not there in the first place. In the above document if I had not removed the brackets before sending no URL will appear in the message. When I was using the old Windows system it never did that. Also pastings seem to run paragraghs together with relevant spacings omitted. Is this supposed to be a better Windows? Now what happens is that when I post a URL to my messageboard I conjunction with a document prepared in wordpad, unless I remove the blue brackets around the URL, the URL will not appear in the message when it gets there. Next to Bob's email address a whole line of extra blue characters appear when I copied to wordpad. I am leaving those blue characters in the sending of this message to see if his address goes through, as because if I dont take the extra deletion of info with URL's nothing gets transmitted. Sending this message to another list did the same thing with the URL. It seems very stupid to me that when people make the computer system a better thing, it starts to seem retarded. I always believed in Keep it simple stupid! I never had these problems with the old Windows system! Comnments about this are appreciated because I consider myself computer illiterate, but I do Know how to cut out irrevalent portions on reply by editing, and so not getting redundant without further adieu here are some quotes from the above URL; Near and far field. Consider the following fictitious disagreement. An electrical engineer is telling a lawyer friend about a new home-electronics project. The engineer lives near some high-voltage power lines and is working on a device for harnessing the power of the 60-Hz electromagnetic field that permeates his property. The lawyer immediately states that what the engineer plans to do would, in effect, be stealing from the utility company. This statement angers the engineer, who replies, "That's the trouble with you lawyers. You defend laws without regard to the truth. Even without my device, the stray electromagnetic energy from the power lines is radiated away and lost, so I might as well use it." The lawyer stands his ground and says that the engineer will still be stealing. Who is right? The lawyer is correct, even though he probably doesn't know the difference between reactive and radiating electromagnetic fields. The field surrounding the power lines is a reactive field, meaning that it stores energy as opposed to radiating energy, so the engineer's device would in fact be "stealing" energy from the power lines. But why? Why do some circuits produce fields that only store energy, whereas others produce fields that radiate it? As mentioned earlier, an ac circuit has a reactive field and a radiating field. The reactive field of an ac source circuit or system is often called the near field because it is concentrated near the source. Similarly, the radiating field is referred to as the far field because its effects extend far from the source. Here's why. You can represent the power density of an electromagnetic field at a distance, r, from the source by a series in 1/r: Field power density=PD =C1 /r2 +C2 /r3 +C3 /r4 +.... Now, imagine a sphere with radius, r, centered at the source. You can calculate the total power passing through the surface of the sphere by multiplying the power density by the sphere's surface area: Total power leaving sphere=P=(4 pr2 )PD =4p(C1 +C2 /r+C3 /r2 +...). When you examine this formula, you can see that the first term is purely a constant. For this term, no matter what size you make the sphere, the same amount of power flows through it. This result is just a mathematical way of showing that power flows away from the source. Therefore, the first term is due solely to the radiated field. Also, as r gets large, all the other terms become negligible, leaving only the radiated term. Conversely, at close distances (small values of r), the nonconstant terms become much larger, and the constant radiating term becomes negligible. These nonconstant terms taken together represent the power in the reactive field. The boundary between the near and far fields is generally considered to fall at about /(2p). Furthermore, the reactive field typically becomes negligible at distances of 3 to 10 . It is interesting to compute the boundary at different frequencies. At 60 Hz, the boundary is 833 km.{is this a mistake?, seems like a large no! (HDN)} Therefore, almost all cases of 60-Hz interference occur in the near (reactive) field. At 100 MHz, the boundary is 0.5m, making this frequency useful for radio communication. At 5x1014 Hz (optical waves), the boundary is 0.1 µm, explaining why optical sources such as light bulbs always appear as radiating sources and never as reactive sources. The comments on virtual particles and quantum mechanics arent mentioned here, well worth clicking on the URL for further investigation. Sincerely HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 5 17:47:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA03589; Sat, 5 Aug 2000 17:47:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 17:47:00 -0700 Message-ID: <398CB6DB.B4DBA5A7@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 20:52:44 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"O3ci62.0.ut.3MBZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16366 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Multi-Cell Theory, Update (Resistance) Part 2 Multi-Cell Theory, Update (Resistance) Part 2 By Mike Johnston 8/5/00 In part one I looked at resistance and how to modify it to suit the requirements of a specific setup. In this part I plan to show that there are two different ways to approach this with two very different results. I will also then post a design for what I consider to be the perfect experimental multi-cell. The two ways to do this are 1) find the necessary total resistance to draw a specific current at a specific voltage and then add identical cells on. In doing it this way you will always produce the same amount of H2 in your multiple cells as you would with one cell because you are multiplying/increasing the total circuit resistance with each cell that you add on and thereby lessening the amperage across the circuit. The benefit from doing it this way is that you can produce the desired amount of H2 with less total amperage input. The total amount of H2 produced remains the same though no matter how many identical cells of this type that you use. As an example let's say that we have a power source which supplies 120 volts and 130 amps. To find the amount of H2 that such a current would yield in one cell you use the standard formula m=.0000105 x I x t = .0000105 x 130 x 1(sec)= .001365 gm/sec H2. This would work out to .001365gm/sec x 60=.0189gm/min x 60= 4.914 gm/hr. The resistance of this cell (in order to let 130 amps pass) would have to be R=E/I=120/130=.9230769ohms. The voltage drop across this cell would be E=IR=130 x .9230769ohms=119.99999volts If you added on another cell, identical to the first, then your resistance would be .9230769ohms x 2= 1.8461538 ohms. So then your amperage across the multi-cell circuit would be 1/2 of your amperage in one cell because your total resistance has doubled. I=E/R=120/1.8461538=65.000001amps across the system. Each cell would then produce m=.0000105 x 65.000001 amps x 1(sec)=.0006825gm/sec of H2 per cell or .001365gm/sec total, which is identical to the amount produced by running ALL of the available 130 amps through one cell. As I said the advantage is that you are using less of the available power to produce this same amount of H2 from water. The total amount of H2 produced would be .001365gm/sec x 60=.0819gm/min or .0819gm/min x 60= 4.914 gm/hr. Probably not enough to run an internal combustion motor of a size sufficient to turn your generator. If it is done in the other way the results are different. I will walk through the steps required to do it this way and then give an example of the results over 1, 50 and 65 cells. The power source for this example will be the same as the first; 120volts 130amps. STEP 1: Find the maximum resistance that can be allowed for one cell so that the desired amperage can flow through your cell at the voltage supplied. To do this use R=E/I which in this case looks like this R=120v/130a=.9230769ohms. NOTE: Remember that resistance is the one variable that you have to work with which will control the amount of H2 that is ultimately produced AND that by making simple adjustments in such factors as the cross sectional area and thickness of your conductor(s), including both the electrodes and the water between them, You CAN achieve ANY RESISTANCE EFFECT THAT YOU WANT! STEP 2: Figure out the amount of H2 that your one cell (in the above example) would produce by using the formula m=.0000105 x I x t, which in this case would be m=.0000105 x 130 x 1(sec) so m=.00365gm/sec, .0819gm/min, 4.914gm/hr. NOTE: As far as that formula goes, there is all of the H2 that you can produce at that amount of current. However the law says that you can produce that amount of H2 in EVERY cell through which it passes. This is great because in a series cell the SAME current passes through EVERY CELL IN THE SERIES. The problem then is simply to engineer a system in which the available current passes through all of your cells. STEP 3: Figure out your voltage drop per cell by using the formula E=IR. In this case E=130 x .9230769=119.99999 volts dropped across our one cell. Good. The law says that the entire voltage should be dropped in a series circuit whether you have one cell or 50. In the case of multiple cells the voltage drops by an equal amount in each cell. In the case of electrolysis we have decided that we need to maintain at least 1.8 volts in each cell so we cannot drop more than that per cell. STEP 4: Figure the watts of power consumed in your circuit by using the formula for "heating losses" W=I2R. Which in this case is I=(130 x 130) x .9230769=15,599.999watts. Our available power is found by the formula w=E X I which is w= 120 x 130= 15,600 watts or 15kw. We use up our entire available power here, everything balances. This is the basic process to use in figuring multiple cells out as well. Remember that to achieve the results that I am going to show in the following example I took the maximum resistance for ONE cell as found above and divided it by the total number of cells I wanted to create. In this way you can find the necessary resistance per individual per cell. One Cell Power supply = 120 volts 130 amps Current passing through system 130 amps 119.99999 volts dropped 15,600 total watts available 15,599.999 total watts used .9230769 ohms maximum resistance .001365 gm/sec H2 total produced Fifty Cells Power supply = 120 volts 130 amps Current passing through system 130 amps 2.399995 volts dropped per cell 15,600 total watts available 15,599.999 total watts used 311.99935 watts used per cell .9230769 ohms total resistance .0184615 ohms maximum resistance per cell .001365gm/sec H2 produced per cell .06825gm/sec H2 produced total Sixty Five Cells Power supply = 120 volts 130 amps Current passing through system 130 amps 1.846143 volts dropped per cell 15,600 total watts available 15,599.999 total watts used 233.99859 watts used per cell .9230769 ohms total resistance .0142011 ohms maximum resistance per cell .001365gm/sec H2 produced per cell .088725gm/sec H2 produced total Beyond this number of cells the voltage drop is too great to maintain the minimum required voltage in each cell. As you can see the output of sixty five cells, designed in this way is 65 times as much as what is produced by one cell! Remember too that if you wanted to further increase the amount of H2 produced at this current all you would have to do is increase the potential difference of the power source (voltage). If you did that you could add on as many more cells as the increase would allow and produce substantially MORE H2 at this SAME CURRENT. END MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 5 18:48:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA17186; Sat, 5 Aug 2000 18:48:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 18:48:36 -0700 Message-ID: <20000806014804.3120.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 18:48:04 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"siBVF2.0.NC4.qFCZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16367 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: teslafy files under submission log in as teslafy at http://www.driveway.com/ I have jpeg and mpeg files there currently of old stuff showing 50 lb rotation of magnet in air core 4 coil field. Will be adding more stuff and deleting these in about a month. So take a peek if ya got the time. It took about 17 minunetes for the mpeg to load, sorry no sound yet figured out HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 5 19:38:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA26730; Sat, 5 Aug 2000 19:38:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 19:38:36 -0700 Message-ID: <398CD0F4.AC1377C2@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 22:44:05 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"N1OKR1.0.MX6.i-CZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16368 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Water Uphill, Update Water Uphill, Update By Mike johnston 8/6/00 Remember the post I did a while back? The one where I suggested pumping water to the top of a tower and then letting the water flow downhill over water wheels or through a turbine to generate power? People said it was impossible, that pissed me off. First I suggested sucking the water to the top of the tower rather than pumping it up from below. people said that wouldn't work because you can only suck water up to a height of 30 feet. Ok fine, I said, then solved the problem by electrolyzing the water at the bottom of the tower and letting the resulting gasses rise through tubes to the top, where they were burned together to create energy and the resulting steam then re-condensed into water and allowed to flow downhill through a series of water wheels or a turbine to generate power.While that was a valid solution I wasn't quite satisfied. I wanted something more simple. So I came up with another way to get liquid water up to the top of a tower. I believe that this may work and use little enough energy so that more energy could be generated by the water going back down hill than what will be required to get it up to the top. In the accompanying diagram you will see that what I did was to create chambers in the line that transports the water up to the top of the tower. These chambers have an inlet pipe at their top and an outlet pipe at their bottom. The pump that draws the water is at the outlet of the topmost chamber. The water supply is drawn from a catch basin below. This basin catches the water from the system as it comes back down and so recycles it. The pump, once started, draws water from the bottom of the top chamber.. The chamber is airtight so as the water level in the chamber falls due to the action of the pump the air pressure within the chamber also decreases. The air is not happy with this.It tries to draw in more air to stabilize it's pressure at normal air pressure. The only source that it has to draw from is the inlet tube at the top of it's chamber. So the air is drawn out of the tube into the chamber. In so doing the water from the chamber below follows the air up and out of it's own chamber and into the tube. As soon as all the air is out of the tube the water flows into the top tank. The chambers are only 20 feet apart so there is no problem sucking the water up the tube and into the next chamber. As the water flows from the second chamber, up the tube to the top chamber the same process repeats in the second chamber. The air pressure within it falls and it sucks up water out of the chamber below it. Finally, the last chamber sucks water up out of the catch basin. The only effort being put out by the pump is whatever is required to pump the water out of the chamber, from a level higher than itself and onto the first water wheel, which is lower than itself. I built one using aquarium tubing for the pipe and plastic spaghetti storage jars for the chambers. I used a small aquarium filter water pump to pull the water out of the first chamber. I estimate (through tests) that the pump could push water up 4 feet of tubing. I set up the device as described above and have pulled water up 20 feet through 2 chambers successfully using this pump. I am limited by not having anything higher than that handy to stand on. END MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 5 19:43:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA28878; Sat, 5 Aug 2000 19:42:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 19:42:47 -0700 Message-ID: <398CD1BC.28EC7F6@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 22:47:25 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------970F46C869BCE58F972BBFD8" Resent-Message-ID: <"y4Lb62.0._27.c2DZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16369 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Water Uphill, Update (Diagram) --------------970F46C869BCE58F972BBFD8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------970F46C869BCE58F972BBFD8 Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\nsmailFV.jpeg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CAJdAoADASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA 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FFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRR QAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAF FFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRR QAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAF FFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRR QAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAF FFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRR QAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAF FFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRR QAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAF FFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRR QAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAF FFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRR QAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAF FFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRR QAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAF FFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRR QAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAH//Z --------------970F46C869BCE58F972BBFD8-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 5 23:20:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA29729; Sat, 5 Aug 2000 23:19:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 23:19:20 -0700 Message-ID: <398D04B3.2B7F21DB@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 02:24:51 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IGjZX1.0.AG7.cDGZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16370 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: De Aquinno post Subject: [jlnlabs] Fran De Aquino and the US Department of Energy Date:Sun, 06 Aug 2000 06:13:32 -0000 From "Svein Utne" Reply-To: jlnlabs@egroups.com To: jlnlabs@egroups.com Professor Fran De Aquino of the Physics Dept. of Maranhao State University in Brazil, who earlier this year showed how to produce anti-gravity (paper published on the CSETI Website), has just emailed me two more astounding papers today. The first shows how to build a 214 HP motor powered by nothing more than the extraction of energy from a gravitational field. This paper is at http://www.cseti.org/position/addition/FREE% 20ENERGY.pdf The second paper provides the long sought after correlation and grand unification of gravitation and electromagnetism. This paper is at http://www.cseti.org/position/addition/GE.pdf And this is not hokey stuff. Prof. De Aquino writes: "I am also sending in attachment a copy of my new paper gr- qc/00077069, which I have posted last week in LANL (Los Alamos National Laboratory) . The US Department of Energy is very interested in the calculations and experimental results presented in my trilogy above mentioned. Some days ago, I have received a proposal for an exploratory R&D program for DOE transportation and basic science that would include both theory development and experiment working in concert to determine the benefit of this for transportation systems. ( about $600K to validate the work in Brazil and validate the work in Russia. )" The cat is, one hopes, now mercifully and irrevocably out of the bag. Regards Tony Craddock Web Administrator CSETI http://www.cseti.org From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 6 05:52:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA03026; Sun, 6 Aug 2000 05:51:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 05:51:40 -0700 Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 07:51:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Water Uphill, Update In-Reply-To: <398CD0F4.AC1377C2@csrlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"myhaz1.0.Bl.RzLZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16371 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 5 Aug 2000, Michael Johnston wrote: > Water Uphill, Update > By Mike johnston > 8/6/00 > > > > Remember the post I did a while back? The one where I suggested pumping > water to the top of a tower and then letting the water flow downhill > over water wheels or through a turbine to generate power? People said it > was impossible, that pissed me off. I don't know why this would be "impossible". In fact, it has been done commercially by power companies for years. The first one in the USA is in Luddington, Michigan. I believe it was built in the mid-70's. They built a huge reservoir up higher than an existing lake. At night and during off-periods of demand, the power generators are used backwards as motors for turbines to pump water from the lake to the reservoir. During peak periods when the power is needed, the water flows down from the reservoir through the turbines to power the generators. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 6 11:20:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA18610; Sun, 6 Aug 2000 11:20:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 11:20:05 -0700 Message-ID: <20000806181933.18368.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 11:19:33 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"w3x5Q3.0.XY4.KnQZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16372 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: 4 phase Prototype http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/prototype.html Thats why they call it the Tesla Electric Co. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 6 11:26:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA20809; Sun, 6 Aug 2000 11:24:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 11:24:15 -0700 Message-ID: <398DAEA1.466A7628@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 14:29:54 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2bN9P1.0.t45.FrQZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16373 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Earth's Electric Field...from NASA The Space Environment: Magnetic and Electric Fields C. K. PURVIS Figure 3 shows a schematic illustration of the Earth's magnetosphere. Near the Earth, i.e., within a few thousand kilometers of the surface, the magnetic field is approximately dipolar; further out the field becomes greatly distorted. The overall shape of the outer magnetosphere is determined by the interaction between the Earth's magnetic field and the solar wind, and the various plasma currents in the magnetosphere. In discussions of the Earth's magnetic field, two types of magnetic poles are cited. These are the "geomagnetic" and the "magnetic" or "dip" poles [1], [2]. The term "geomagnetic pole" refers to the intersection between the Earth's surface and the dipole axis of a "best fit" mathematical model for the field. It is commonly found in discussions of near-earth space. The magnetic or dip poles are the locations on the Earth's surface at which the magnetic field is vertical (has a dip angle of 90°).The magnetic poles are more usually marked on charts or maps, and are in different places from the geomagnetic poles [see Fig. 2 of ref. 8]. A simple representation of the near-Earth field consists of a dipole whose axis is tilted at about 11.5° from the Earth's spin axis and offset slightly from the geographic center. This results in a location for the north geomagnetic pole in Greenland (geographic coordinates: 78.5°N, 69°W). It may be noted that this is the south pole of the Earth's internal dipole (the north pole of a compass needle points toward it). Thus, the Earth's geomagnetic equator, its geographic equator and the ecliptic define three different planes. For spacecraft applications, the magnetic field within several thousand kilometers of the surface is represented as the gradient of a scalar magnetic potential and expressed in terms of a spherical harmonic expansion [3], [4]. By including contributions of the external field (due to currents of charged particles flowing above the Earth's surface), spherical harmonic expansion models can be made useful at higher altitudes. Beyond two or three Earth radii, however, separate external field models must be constructed, and their contributions to the field added to those from the internal field. The external field is much more variable than the internal one, and a number of geomagnetic activity indices are used to describe its variations [4]. Magnetic field effects on systems include torques due to spacecraft magnetic moments and current flows, and development of induced potentials due to motion of the spacecraft through the Earth's field. Magnetic torques will be exerted on spacecraft having residual net dipole moments, uncompensated current flows or permeable materials on board, and on spinning spacecraft having charged surfaces. It is customary to "degauss" spacecraft before launch to minimize net moments, to design solar array circuits to minimize net moments due to current flows, and to design attitude control systems to compensate anticipated magnetic torques. In the spacecraft's reference frame, its motion through the magnetic field is seen as an electric field and causes a potential to develop across the spacecraft in the direction perpendicular to both B and the spacecraft's velocity vector, , of magnitude = xB*L, where L is the spacecraft's dimension. This potential is largest in LEO where both and B are largest, and zero at GEO. A typical value of motion induced electric field at LEO (where B is about 0.5 Gauss and is about 8 km/sec) is about 4.0 V/m. Very large systems can develop substantial potentials which can drive currents through large spacecraft structures. This is the operational principle of the electrodynamics tether [5]; for other systems, .eg., the Space Station, such structural currents are undesirable and to be minimized in design. There are electric fields present in the magnetosphere, associated with the various magnetospheric current systems. The total voltage drops across the magnetosphere are large, but the fields are small, of order tens of millivolts per meter [3], and from the perspective of space system environment interactions, the electric fields tend to be dominated by system-induced potentials. Such potentials include system voltages in the power system and instruments (where exposed to the environment), charging of surfaces by ambient plasma populations, and the motion induced potentials discussed above. System produced potentials drive plasma interactions in the ionosphere and may result in enhanced chemical reactions (O+ erosion) and surface sputtering. A charged spacecraft may experience Coulomb drag [6] in addition to aerodynamic drag. Additionally, charged surfaces can experience electrostatically enhanced rates of contamination. References [1] Tascione, T. F., (1988), Introduction to the Space Environment, Orbit Book Company. [2] Sugiura, M. and J. P. Heppner, (1965), The Earth's Magnetic Field, Introduction to Space Science, W. N. Hess and G. D. Mead, eds, Gordon and Breach, Science Publishers [3] Smith, R. E. and G. S. West, compilers, (1983), Space and Planetary Environm ent Criteria for Use in Space Vehicle Development, 1982 Revision (Volume 1), NASA TM 82478. [4] Jursa, A. S., sci. ed., (1985), Handbook of Geophysic and the Space Environment, Air Force Geophysics Laboratory, Air Force Systems Command USAF, NTIS Document ADA 167000. [5] Applications of Tethers in Space, Volume 1, Workshop Proceedings, Venice, Italy, NASA CP-2422, March, 1986 (several papers). [6] Singer, S. F., (1964), Forces and Torques Due to Coulomb Interaction with the Magnetosphere, Torques and Attitude Sensing in Earth Satellites, S. F. , ed, Academic Press, p. 99. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 7 01:43:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA01515; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 01:42:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 01:42:08 -0700 Message-ID: <398E77C3.ACFE65E0@csrlink.net> Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 04:48:03 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MaObj3.0.RN.WPdZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16374 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Main DeAquino Link Hi All, I just went to cseti and got the correct starter page link for Dr. De Aquino's material. from this page you should be able to access the rest. http://www.cseti.org/position/addition/brazil%20gravity.htm MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 7 10:02:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA07508; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:01:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:01:58 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 13:01:18 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"vonT71.0.7r1.6kkZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16375 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: LaFonte Research Group site updated http://members.a ol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm Site Updated From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 7 10:19:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA13778; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:18:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:18:34 -0700 Message-ID: <001601c00093$38203040$ead666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Water Uphill, Update Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 13:16:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"MFkiZ1.0.BN3.fzkZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16376 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I don't particularly trust the "laws" of thermodynamics myself, but you don't just "solve" a thousands of years old question so simply. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Johnston To: Michael S. Johnston Date: Saturday, August 05, 2000 10:39 PM Subject: [FG]: Water Uphill, Update >Water Uphill, Update >By Mike johnston >8/6/00 > > > > Remember the post I did a while back? The one where I suggested pumping >water to the top of a tower and then letting the water flow downhill >over water wheels or through a turbine to generate power? People said it >was impossible, that pissed me off. First I suggested sucking the water >to the top of the tower rather than pumping it up from below. people >said that wouldn't work because you can only suck water up to a height >of 30 feet. Ok fine, I said, then solved the problem by electrolyzing >the water at the bottom of the tower and letting the resulting gasses >rise through tubes to the top, where they were burned together to create >energy and the resulting steam then re-condensed into water and allowed >to flow downhill through a series of water wheels or a turbine to >generate power.While that was a valid solution I wasn't quite satisfied. >I wanted something more simple. > So I came up with another way to get liquid water up to the top of a >tower. I believe that this may work and use little enough energy so that >more energy could be generated by the water going back down hill than >what will be required to get it up to the top. In the accompanying >diagram you will see that what I did was to create chambers in the line >that transports the water up to the top of the tower. These chambers >have an inlet pipe at their top and an outlet pipe at their bottom. The >pump that draws the water is at the outlet of the topmost chamber. The >water supply is drawn from a catch basin below. This basin catches the >water from the system as it comes back down and so recycles it. > The pump, once started, draws water from the bottom of the top >chamber.. The chamber is airtight so as the water level in the chamber >falls due to the action of the pump the air pressure within the chamber >also decreases. The air is not happy with this.It tries to draw in more >air to stabilize it's pressure at normal air pressure. The only source >that it has to draw from is the inlet tube at the top of it's chamber. >So the air is drawn out of the tube into the chamber. In so doing the >water from the chamber below follows the air up and out of it's own >chamber and into the tube. As soon as all the air is out of the tube the >water flows into the top tank. The chambers are only 20 feet apart so >there is no problem sucking the water up the tube and into the next >chamber. > As the water flows from the second chamber, up the tube to the top >chamber the same process repeats in the second chamber. The air pressure >within it falls and it sucks up water out of the chamber below it. >Finally, the last chamber sucks water up out of the catch basin. > The only effort being put out by the pump is whatever is required to >pump the water out of the chamber, from a level higher than itself and >onto the first water wheel, which is lower than itself. > I built one using aquarium tubing for the pipe and plastic spaghetti >storage jars for the chambers. I used a small aquarium filter water pump >to pull the water out of the first chamber. I estimate (through tests) >that the pump could push water up 4 feet of tubing. I set up the device >as described above and have pulled water up 20 feet through 2 chambers >successfully using this pump. I am limited by not having anything higher >than that handy to stand on. >END >MJ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 7 10:41:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20759; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:41:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:41:17 -0700 Message-ID: <398EF369.3DDBA38C@harti.com> Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 19:35:37 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , "free.energy@gmx.de" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List , "ou-builders@egroups.com" X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o_vWg1.0.B45.zIlZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16377 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Prof. Meyl analaysis from Waser now in English ! http://www.aw-verlag.ch/NewsE.htm There is the analysis from Andre Waser about the Prof. Meyl Scalar kit demo now in English language. Very interesting. Avalaible as a PDF File. You need acrobat viewer to see it. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 7 11:38:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA04269; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:36:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:36:53 -0700 Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 20:23:03 +0200 From: "The Dullabh's" Subject: Re: [FG]: Anyone know diameter of DNA helix? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-id: <0FYX008MWPTVGZ@jhb-proxy.mweb.co.za> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 Resent-Message-ID: <"5Q_6g.0.V21.47mZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16378 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello! Do you know how to unsubscribe to this e-mail forwards like the one below cause my mail is starting to seriously clog up. Please help me on this Issue If you know how to unsubscribe mail me : chico@mweb.co.za Thanx ---------- > From: Jim Dickenson > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: RE: [FG]: Anyone know diameter of DNA helix? > Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000 8:54 PM > > Ken: > Please see > http://www.wisc.edu/wisteb/materials/modl_bld/DNA-parameters.html. The > diameter is 20A. > > - Jim Dickenson. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Keasy@aol.com [SMTP:Keasy@aol.com] > > Sent: 03 August, 2000 12:11 PM > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: [FG]: Anyone know diameter of DNA helix? > > > > Hello all, > > I have been able to find out that a DNA helix turn is about 34 > > angstroms > > along the length of the strand, but I can't find the diameter of the DNA. > > What does this have to do with this list topic, you might ask? Well, > > since the DNA geometry is so unique I thought it would be interesting to > > put > > together a scaled electrical antenna (or two) and see if they have any > > interesting characteristics. This would not be like a helical antenna > > which > > has one conductor and a ground plane. > > But to do this I need to know the DNA geometry so I can scale it. > > > > > > > > > > Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 7 12:41:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA24464; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 12:40:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 12:40:40 -0700 Message-ID: <398F0F8F.15290D23@harti.com> Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 21:35:43 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, HLafonte@aol.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, "ou-builders@egroups.com" Subject: Re: [FG]: LaFonte Research Group site updated References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_mivY.0.8-5.t2nZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16379 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com HLafonte@aol.com schrieb: > http://members.aol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm > Site Updated Hi Butch, I guess, if the rotor is at 3 o´clock at http://members.aol.com/vettenrr/NEWCIR.jpg it must be moved away from the ferrite disc, so you have to power the coils at the next 90 degrees to 6 o´clock This requires the external power. If you go by 1/5 x L/R = 1/5 tau timeconstant, then you have about 95 % of the used energy inside the L coil stored which could be recycled. Now the qustion is, if the energy could be recycled this well and if the attarction to the ferrite disc will be more energy than the 5 % lost plus loss of the recycling ?? BTW, during the attraction time of the ferrite disc you could close the coil and extract energy, but then the rotation frequency will be kept constant and not rising during this phase! This way you can also win energy from 12 o´clock to 3 o´clock. Good luck ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 7 14:25:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA24881; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:24:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:24:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:24:43 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4jKsV.0.b46.XaoZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16380 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: cheap high voltage! How about this: a small, safe 7,500 volt DC power supply for $3.99 ! IONIZER http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=2713 I bought a handful of these things and found that yes, they can spin the "pop bottle electrostatic motor". Also use them for a VandeGraaff machine's active comb-drive (still works when humidity is high). Short circuit output current was above 50uA on my small panel meter. I didn't dare to test it with my DVM (ESD paranoia.) Maybe hook several in parallel for higher current? Educators might want to buy a large quantity. Put them in small cases for safety. The output is current limited negative high voltage (referenced to wall-outlet ground). Lots of electrostatic experiments come to mind, especially when the humidity is high and "frictional" generators won't work. All Electronics has them too, but for $4.50 ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 7 14:59:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA28955; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <398F2F71.6068FD0@harti.com> Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 23:51:45 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Free Energy , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"n74w92.0.D47.W2pZv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16381 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Conference report from Doug Konzen Hi, there was a conference on free energy in Phoenix,Arizona at the end of July. see: http://www.exoticresearch.com/ Here is the report by Doug Konzen: Re: back from Conference ? Datum: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 12:35:05 -0700 Von: "Doug Konzen" An: "Stefan Hartmann" Hi Stefan The conference was great lots of fun and info - When I first got to the hotel where it was held in Phoenix (109degrees F outside) the camera was broken for the next show so I volunteered with my video cam and so I filmed George Wiseman and his browns-gas electrolyzer/welder machine which was totally amazing!--- its flame can cut through 1" thick steel, but at the same time you can put your finger through the flame!! The Browns gas welders are so superior to normal welders its not funny - really clean precise cuts and can weld aluminum and copper nicely too plus they are way safer than normal acetylene - their principal of operation has similarities to my machine too - capacitor-type battery recharging for instance and the power produced is from cells that create a reaction right in the exact center of the cells - also somewhat like my power of colliding magnetism that smashes right in the middle but anyways it was all very interesting. George told me that his capacitor rechrging system can charge a whole lot of batteries all at once in paralell, and he likes to get a lot of old batteries that are dead in junk yards and bring them all back to life too.... George wrote an article in exotic research magazine too explaining the patent process and how he gets around it - basically, when you release something to the public (internet or whatever) it is now "public domain" which means that now it CANNOT be patented by him because of this... BUT it also means that NOBODY ELSE can either!!!!!!!!!!!!! I like this a lot - this makes it so that inventors can keep forging ahead with no paranoid worries of people "stealing" everything and if they do try and steal things, they cant patent it!! nice huh? Something there being displayed with a lot of hoopla was the GEET system which reminds me of a simple stoner's "bong" to smoke pot with - instead they use lawn mowers or car exhaust stuck downward into a chamber of fluid half-filled, with the air-portion of the chamber reccylcing itself back into the carburetor. These seem to work really well, although I could smell a lot of fumes still and they had to fire these up outside finally as they didnt seem to get it all 100%.....some guys said last year they worked better, this year some other guys built their prototypes and they arent working as well. I am sure these things are great and they could cut pollution down to nothing if everyone used them. Also I met THREE ppeople who worked on, or experienced "out of control" OU motor/generator systems - one guy said his wife and cat passed out during one test, and the motor/generator would actually suck him into it while running as it is pulling in energy from everywhere, and they had to put a steel plate between themselves and the motor for protection!! The importance of having small and safe OU systems rather than great big ones is becoming clear! The guy telling me this story was totally brilliant, and also explained to me the importance of the "dead space" between pulses in a pulse-motor such as mine. this is also called the "zero-point-energy" and what it means is that within this space between pulses there is a gate that can be opened (either way!) and if you want to extract (or collect) energy to/from a big load, you must do it during this time period - and because of ohms law lots of load (resistance) means less draw!!!!!!!----only during this dead space however....energy taken or pulled into the "pulsing areas" will bog things down.... OU systems once becoming OU as I have been saying (Hectors information) become EXPONENTIAL in their power output, and this explains WHY a little bit - Another guy I talked to had a pulse motor/generator a few years ago that LOVED to power things that had more and more load that would seem totally impossible to power from what it is taking to run the motor/generator system itself - more and more load, and the less and less draw - OPPOSITE of what you would think should happen. this guy said that after adding electric heaters, lights, whatever, he eventually got the system to run on nothing.... so there is all that....... My demo went very well - but not enough time to show everything. When I hooked up 24V to my motor at the very end, the cold air coming form the motor was very noticeable (endothermic affect) One guy got hit by a blast ten feet away and leaped out of his chair... I also charged up a battery lickety-split with the back EMF to show how the motor can be run continuously by switching batteries being recharged with ones running the motor and that was impressive to everyone, plus I had a scope running to show the draw to the motor during the tests too and the importance of the big cap banks. The splatter coils producing HV got a lot of attention, and a guy came up and measured the volts with his own meter - it said 197Vac tops on his meter, but I know it was probably more if we had hooked a scope to it... My shaft is putting out around 2.5watts@800 rpm right now, so NOBODY argued with me about if or if not my system is OU or not - it is pretty obvious to anyone and everyone seeing it so there wasnt any negativity the whole time from anybody - I felt like a rock star or something sometimes.... I got invited to another conference next spring to do a workshop, and had a offer for a big secret project that needs my motors to run some Tesla pumps too so we will see what is next. the electric bicycle isnt going so well right now - no power it seems...i have the Emagnets facing each other rather than spinning past one another so that might be it ... I also started a internet record company with my freind Jim who lives in Phoenix - here is the start of it all if you want to hear some music: http://homepages.go.com/~boomerecords/ Ciao Konehead website: http://homepages.go.com/homepages/e/n/z/enzok/ -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 7 18:22:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA05059; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 18:22:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 18:22:03 -0700 Message-ID: <398F5F8E.EBED5672@harti.com> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 03:17:02 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Konzen , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <000801c000c7$fe89a7a0$2ff2103f@old-konzen> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qczgf2.0.oE1.x2sZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16382 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: rotor without coils !Use stepper motor ! Sorry one mistake: All stator coils around the "+" (cross, 4 pole) rotor must have the same polarity into direction axis, so the cross rotor is pushed away from all 4 coils ! Thus the it is easy to wire the 4 stator coils just in parallel and energize them all at once, every time the rotor is just alligned with them ! Very easy ! You can just use pickup coils around the stator coils then for the colliding fields ! I guess a commercial stepper-motor coul be easily rewired to do this ! Go for it ! Best regards, Stefan. >Hi Doug, >I just have my creative phase ! >What do you think of a colling coil motor, >where you have no rotor coils, >but just only stator coils ? >If the rotor is made of a "+" (cross) >out of iron and just the stator coils >behind it are energized, then the iron core >rotor >will be turning also due to the repelling forces ! >You only need the stator coils to repell each other >at 180 degrees ! So the rotor just conducts the flux >and will rotate away. Now if you have a 4 poles stator, >so stator coils at each 90 degrees you can also have >N-S-N-S stator energizing, which will even rotate the >rotor faster and better ! >You need no coils on the rotor ! >Just armouphous iron as the rotor would be the best ! Your colliding coils idea is really perfect, cause the back EMF will also propell the rotor and do not put any drag on it ! This is the major difference to all other motors ! Best regards, Stefan. Doug Konzen schrieb: > > hi Stefan > > So one thing I asked the FCC engineer last time down there is about the > ground/zero line and he said that it was OK - it was showing 200mA in his > lab at that time - with the two caps and everything running right I could > get it less than that on the scope.... > > I never really got a grip on the HV output except in AC through a scope > (300Vac top of spikes) and at the conference during the demo a guy came up > and used his meter on the HV output and he got 197Vac and my motor only had > one big cap going then. > > I can light 30watts (thirty) of flourescents, 15watts is the same as 30watts > in brightness.. more than 30 and it will be dimmer. > these will flicker at low speed and not be that bright, but they are lit. > The interesting thing is that you will get jolted at very low speed or high > speed just the same if you touch the leads - load on the HV doesnt slow the > motor either. > > high speed makes a lot of difference in the pickup winding output and the > rectified recoil circuits in the amount of power put out, but the HV output > puts out the same spikes at high or low speed. I now have some HV diodes > and caps so I will have to get back to working on my motor with rubber > gloves to get the real output of the HV splatter coils right as the only > indicator now is the shock and pain, spark-jump length and intensity, and > amount of flouresents that can be lit. Deems to be alot more than 3watts > or 5watts - when I make a 4stator motor, there will be 600Vac and the > flourescents will be beautiful... > > Ciao > Konehead > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stefan Hartmann > To: Doug Konzen > Date: Monday, August 07, 2000 2:14 PM > Subject: Re: back from Conference ? > > > > > > >Doug Konzen schrieb: > >> > >> Hi Stefan > >> > >> You can print my account of the conference on JNL if you want... > > > > > >Okay, I will do this. > > > >>also what > >> shows on the meter is between .3A and .6A depending on how I twist the > >> trigger magnets... > > > > > >So this is 12 Volts x 0.3 Amps= 3.6 Watts, still more than your > >mechanical > >output, but how much HV AC power is coming out ? > >Can you light up a 9 Watts FL bulb constantly ?? > >On the scope it looked more like 0.1 to 0.2 amps but the ground line > >may have been offset from the zero line... > > > > > > > >> The big thing I learned down there is the importance of > >> tapping or pulling energy in during the dead-space between pulses....this > is > >> how some of the people I talked to got machines to do impossible > >> things...like I said everybody down there was very nice to me and > >> supportive. I'm going to make another motor with 4 stators and 8HV > clusters > >> next plus need to do a switching capacitor "tank" circuit with caps > instead > >> of batteries although the batteries work great so far. > > > >I see, good lluck on this. > >Sounds interesting ! > > > >> > >> Thanks > >> Konehead > >> > >> - > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Stefan Hartmann > >> To: Doug Konzen > >> Date: Monday, August 07, 2000 6:54 AM > >> Subject: Re: back from Conference ? > >> > >> >Hi Doug, > >> >thanks a lot for the report of the conference. > >> >Seems your motor was a highlight of the conference ! > >> > > >> >Can the summary report be posted on the lists ? > >> > > >> >How much DC amps is going now into your motor > >> >when measured via a normal analog DC amp meter ? > >> >100 or 200 Milliamps or still more ? > >> >(measured at the battery) > >> > > >> >Regards, Stefan. > >> > > >> > > >> >Doug Konzen schrieb: > >> >> > >> >> Hi Stefan > >> >> > >> >> The conference was great lots of fun and info - > >> >> > >> >> When I first got to the hotel where it was held in Phoenix (109degrees > F > >> >> outside) the camera was broken for the next show so I volunteered with > my > >> >> video cam and so I filmed George Wiseman and his browns-gas > >> >> electrolyzer/welder machine which was totally amazing!--- its flame > can > >> cut > >> >> through 1" thick steel, but at the same time you can put your finger > >> through > >> >> the flame!! > >> >> The Browns gas welders are so superior to normal welders its not > funny - > >> >> really clean precise cuts and can weld aluminum and copper nicely too > >> plus > >> >> they are way safer than normal acetylene - their principal of > operation > >> has > >> >> similarities to my machine too - capacitor-type battery recharging for > >> >> instance and the power produced is from cells that create a reaction > >> right > >> >> in the exact center of the cells - also somewhat like my power of > >> colliding > >> >> magnetism that smashes right in the middle but anyways it was all very > >> >> interesting. George told me that his capacitor rechrging system can > >> charge > >> >> a whole lot of batteries all at once in paralell, and he likes to get > a > >> lot > >> >> of old batteries that are dead in junk yards and bring them all back > to > >> life > >> >> too.... > >> >> > >> >> George wrote an article in exotic research magazine too explaining the > >> >> patent process and how he gets around it - basically, when you > release > >> >> something to the public (internet or whatever) it is now "public > domain" > >> >> which means that now it CANNOT be patented by him because of this... > >> >> > >> >> BUT it also means that NOBODY ELSE can either!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >> >> > >> >> I like this a lot - this makes it so that inventors can keep forging > >> ahead > >> >> with no paranoid worries of people "stealing" everything and if they > do > >> try > >> >> and steal things, they cant patent it!! nice huh? > >> >> > >> >> Something there being displayed with a lot of hoopla was the GEET > system > >> >> which reminds me of a simple stoner's "bong" to smoke pot with - > instead > >> >> they use lawn mowers or car exhaust stuck downward into a chamber of > >> fluid > >> >> half-filled, with the air-portion of the chamber reccylcing itself > back > >> into > >> >> the carburetor. These seem to work really well, although I could > smell a > >> >> lot of fumes still and they had to fire these up outside finally as > they > >> >> didnt seem to get it all 100%.....some guys said last year they worked > >> >> better, this year some other guys built their prototypes and they > arent > >> >> working as well. I am sure these things are great and they could cut > >> >> pollution down to nothing if everyone used them. > >> >> > >> >> Also I met THREE ppeople who worked on, or experienced "out of > control" > >> OU > >> >> motor/generator systems - one guy said his wife and cat passed out > during > >> >> one test, and the motor/generator would actually suck him into it > while > >> >> running as it is pulling in energy from everywhere, and they had to > put a > >> >> steel plate between themselves and the motor for protection!! The > >> >> importance of having small and safe OU systems rather than great big > ones > >> is > >> >> becoming clear! > >> >> > >> >> The guy telling me this story was totally brilliant, and also > explained > >> to > >> >> me the importance of the "dead space" between pulses in a pulse-motor > >> such > >> >> as mine. this is also called the "zero-point-energy" and what it > means > >> is > >> >> that within this space between pulses there is a gate that can be > opened > >> >> (either way!) and if you want to extract (or collect) energy to/from a > >> big > >> >> load, you must do it during this time period - and because of ohms law > >> lots > >> >> of load (resistance) means less draw!!!!!!!----only during this dead > >> space > >> >> however....energy taken or pulled into the "pulsing areas" will bog > >> things > >> >> down.... > >> >> > >> >> OU systems once becoming OU as I have been saying (Hectors > information) > >> >> become EXPONENTIAL in their power output, and this explains WHY a > little > >> >> bit - Another guy I talked to had a pulse motor/generator a few years > ago > >> >> that LOVED to power things that had more and more load that would seem > >> >> totally impossible to power from what it is taking to run the > >> >> motor/generator system itself - more and more load, and the less and > less > >> >> draw - OPPOSITE of what you would think should happen. this guy said > >> that > >> >> after adding electric heaters, lights, whatever, he eventually got the > >> >> system to run on nothing.... so there is all that....... > >> >> > >> >> My demo went very well - but not enough time to show everything. When > I > >> >> hooked up 24V to my motor at the very end, the cold air coming form > the > >> >> motor was very noticeable (endothermic affect) One guy got hit by a > blast > >> >> ten feet away and leaped out of his chair... I also charged up a > battery > >> >> lickety-split with the back EMF to show how the motor can be run > >> >> continuously by switching batteries being recharged with ones running > the > >> >> motor and that was impressive to everyone, plus I had a scope running > to > >> >> show the draw to the motor during the tests too and the importance of > the > >> >> big cap banks. The splatter coils producing HV got a lot of > attention, > >> and > >> >> a guy came up and measured the volts with his own meter - it said > 197Vac > >> >> tops on his meter, but I know it was probably more if we had hooked a > >> scope > >> >> to it... My shaft is putting out around 2.5watts@800 rpm right now, so > >> >> NOBODY argued with me about if or if not my system is OU or not - it > is > >> >> pretty obvious to anyone and everyone seeing it so there wasnt any > >> >> negativity the whole time from anybody - I felt like a rock star or > >> >> something sometimes.... I got invited to another conference next > spring > >> to > >> >> do a workshop, and had a offer for a big secret project that needs my > >> motors > >> >> to run some Tesla pumps too so we will see what is next. > >> >> > >> >> the electric bicycle isnt going so well right now - no power it > >> seems...i > >> >> have the Emagnets facing each other rather than spinning past one > another > >> so > >> >> that might be it ... > >> >> > >> >> I also started a internet record company with my freind Jim who lives > in > >> >> Phoenix - here is the start of it all if you want to hear some music: > >> >> http://homepages.go.com/~boomerecords/ > >> >> > >> >> Ciao > >> >> Konehead > >> >> > >> >> website: > >> >> http://homepages.go.com/homepages/e/n/z/enzok/ > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Stefan Hartmann > >> >> To: Douglas L. Konzen > >> >> Date: Saturday, August 05, 2000 4:00 AM > >> >> Subject: Re: back from Conference ? > >> >> > >> >> >Hi Doug, > >> >> >how was the conference ? > >> >> >Did the folks like your motor ? > >> >> > > >> >> >Waht about the other inventors there ? > >> >> >Anything new ? > >> >> > > >> >> >Can you post a short summary what happened there ?? > >> >> > > >> >> >Thanks ! > >> >> >Regards, Stefan. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> >-- > >> > > >> >Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > >> >-- > >> >Hartmann Multimedia Service, > >> >Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > >> >Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > >> >email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > >> >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > > > >-- > > > >Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > >-- > >Hartmann Multimedia Service, > >Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > >Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > >email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 7 18:29:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA08067; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 18:29:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 18:29:18 -0700 Message-ID: <398F6140.28D94C7@harti.com> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 03:24:17 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Konzen , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xSvkF3.0.uz1.k9sZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16383 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [Fwd: rotor without coils !ASCII Drawing.. here is an ASCII drawing: S C C C N S C C C N + N C C C S N C C C S The armouphous iron Cross "+" rotor in the middle would turn away... when the coils "SCCCN" (SouthCCCNorth) are pulsed this way ! The cross rotor would be of course a bit bigger than in this drawing... Stefan Hartmann schrieb: > > Sorry one mistake: > All stator coils around the "+" > (cross, 4 pole) rotor must > have the same polarity into direction > axis, so the cross rotor is pushed away > from all 4 coils ! > Thus the it is easy to wire the 4 stator coils > just in parallel and energize them all at once, > every time the rotor is just alligned with them ! > Very easy ! You can just use pickup coils around the stator > coils then for the colliding fields ! > I guess a commercial stepper-motor coul be easily > rewired to do this ! > Go for it ! > Best regards, Stefan. > > >Hi Doug, > >I just have my creative phase ! > >What do you think of a colling coil motor, > >where you have no rotor coils, > >but just only stator coils ? > >If the rotor is made of a "+" (cross) > >out of iron and just the stator coils > >behind it are energized, then the iron core > >rotor > >will be turning also due to the repelling forces ! > >You only need the stator coils to repell each other > >at 180 degrees ! So the rotor just conducts the flux > >and will rotate away. Now if you have a 4 poles stator, > >so stator coils at each 90 degrees you can also have > >N-S-N-S stator energizing, which will even rotate the > >rotor faster and better ! > >You need no coils on the rotor ! > >Just armouphous iron as the rotor would be the best ! > > Your colliding coils idea is really perfect, cause the back EMF will > also propell the rotor and do not put any drag on it ! > This is the major difference to all other motors ! > > Best regards, Stefan. > > Doug Konzen schrieb: > > > > hi Stefan > > > > So one thing I asked the FCC engineer last time down there is about the > > ground/zero line and he said that it was OK - it was showing 200mA in his > > lab at that time - with the two caps and everything running right I could > > get it less than that on the scope.... > > > > I never really got a grip on the HV output except in AC through a scope > > (300Vac top of spikes) and at the conference during the demo a guy came up > > and used his meter on the HV output and he got 197Vac and my motor only had > > one big cap going then. > > > > I can light 30watts (thirty) of flourescents, 15watts is the same as 30watts > > in brightness.. more than 30 and it will be dimmer. > > these will flicker at low speed and not be that bright, but they are lit. > > The interesting thing is that you will get jolted at very low speed or high > > speed just the same if you touch the leads - load on the HV doesnt slow the > > motor either. > > > > high speed makes a lot of difference in the pickup winding output and the > > rectified recoil circuits in the amount of power put out, but the HV output > > puts out the same spikes at high or low speed. I now have some HV diodes > > and caps so I will have to get back to working on my motor with rubber > > gloves to get the real output of the HV splatter coils right as the only > > indicator now is the shock and pain, spark-jump length and intensity, and > > amount of flouresents that can be lit. Deems to be alot more than 3watts > > or 5watts - when I make a 4stator motor, there will be 600Vac and the > > flourescents will be beautiful... > > > > Ciao > > Konehead > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Stefan Hartmann > > To: Doug Konzen > > Date: Monday, August 07, 2000 2:14 PM > > Subject: Re: back from Conference ? > > > > > > > > > > >Doug Konzen schrieb: > > >> > > >> Hi Stefan > > >> > > >> You can print my account of the conference on JNL if you want... > > > > > > > > >Okay, I will do this. > > > > > >>also what > > >> shows on the meter is between .3A and .6A depending on how I twist the > > >> trigger magnets... > > > > > > > > >So this is 12 Volts x 0.3 Amps= 3.6 Watts, still more than your > > >mechanical > > >output, but how much HV AC power is coming out ? > > >Can you light up a 9 Watts FL bulb constantly ?? > > >On the scope it looked more like 0.1 to 0.2 amps but the ground line > > >may have been offset from the zero line... > > > > > > > > > > > >> The big thing I learned down there is the importance of > > >> tapping or pulling energy in during the dead-space between pulses....this > > is > > >> how some of the people I talked to got machines to do impossible > > >> things...like I said everybody down there was very nice to me and > > >> supportive. I'm going to make another motor with 4 stators and 8HV > > clusters > > >> next plus need to do a switching capacitor "tank" circuit with caps > > instead > > >> of batteries although the batteries work great so far. > > > > > >I see, good lluck on this. > > >Sounds interesting ! > > > > > >> > > >> Thanks > > >> Konehead > > >> > > >> - > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Stefan Hartmann > > >> To: Doug Konzen > > >> Date: Monday, August 07, 2000 6:54 AM > > >> Subject: Re: back from Conference ? > > >> > > >> >Hi Doug, > > >> >thanks a lot for the report of the conference. > > >> >Seems your motor was a highlight of the conference ! > > >> > > > >> >Can the summary report be posted on the lists ? > > >> > > > >> >How much DC amps is going now into your motor > > >> >when measured via a normal analog DC amp meter ? > > >> >100 or 200 Milliamps or still more ? > > >> >(measured at the battery) > > >> > > > >> >Regards, Stefan. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >Doug Konzen schrieb: > > >> >> > > >> >> Hi Stefan > > >> >> > > >> >> The conference was great lots of fun and info - > > >> >> > > >> >> When I first got to the hotel where it was held in Phoenix (109degrees > > F > > >> >> outside) the camera was broken for the next show so I volunteered with > > my > > >> >> video cam and so I filmed George Wiseman and his browns-gas > > >> >> electrolyzer/welder machine which was totally amazing!--- its flame > > can > > >> cut > > >> >> through 1" thick steel, but at the same time you can put your finger > > >> through > > >> >> the flame!! > > >> >> The Browns gas welders are so superior to normal welders its not > > funny - > > >> >> really clean precise cuts and can weld aluminum and copper nicely too > > >> plus > > >> >> they are way safer than normal acetylene - their principal of > > operation > > >> has > > >> >> similarities to my machine too - capacitor-type battery recharging for > > >> >> instance and the power produced is from cells that create a reaction > > >> right > > >> >> in the exact center of the cells - also somewhat like my power of > > >> colliding > > >> >> magnetism that smashes right in the middle but anyways it was all very > > >> >> interesting. George told me that his capacitor rechrging system can > > >> charge > > >> >> a whole lot of batteries all at once in paralell, and he likes to get > > a > > >> lot > > >> >> of old batteries that are dead in junk yards and bring them all back > > to > > >> life > > >> >> too.... > > >> >> > > >> >> George wrote an article in exotic research magazine too explaining the > > >> >> patent process and how he gets around it - basically, when you > > release > > >> >> something to the public (internet or whatever) it is now "public > > domain" > > >> >> which means that now it CANNOT be patented by him because of this... > > >> >> > > >> >> BUT it also means that NOBODY ELSE can either!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > >> >> > > >> >> I like this a lot - this makes it so that inventors can keep forging > > >> ahead > > >> >> with no paranoid worries of people "stealing" everything and if they > > do > > >> try > > >> >> and steal things, they cant patent it!! nice huh? > > >> >> > > >> >> Something there being displayed with a lot of hoopla was the GEET > > system > > >> >> which reminds me of a simple stoner's "bong" to smoke pot with - > > instead > > >> >> they use lawn mowers or car exhaust stuck downward into a chamber of > > >> fluid > > >> >> half-filled, with the air-portion of the chamber reccylcing itself > > back > > >> into > > >> >> the carburetor. These seem to work really well, although I could > > smell a > > >> >> lot of fumes still and they had to fire these up outside finally as > > they > > >> >> didnt seem to get it all 100%.....some guys said last year they worked > > >> >> better, this year some other guys built their prototypes and they > > arent > > >> >> working as well. I am sure these things are great and they could cut > > >> >> pollution down to nothing if everyone used them. > > >> >> > > >> >> Also I met THREE ppeople who worked on, or experienced "out of > > control" > > >> OU > > >> >> motor/generator systems - one guy said his wife and cat passed out > > during > > >> >> one test, and the motor/generator would actually suck him into it > > while > > >> >> running as it is pulling in energy from everywhere, and they had to > > put a > > >> >> steel plate between themselves and the motor for protection!! The > > >> >> importance of having small and safe OU systems rather than great big > > ones > > >> is > > >> >> becoming clear! > > >> >> > > >> >> The guy telling me this story was totally brilliant, and also > > explained > > >> to > > >> >> me the importance of the "dead space" between pulses in a pulse-motor > > >> such > > >> >> as mine. this is also called the "zero-point-energy" and what it > > means > > >> is > > >> >> that within this space between pulses there is a gate that can be > > opened > > >> >> (either way!) and if you want to extract (or collect) energy to/from a > > >> big > > >> >> load, you must do it during this time period - and because of ohms law > > >> lots > > >> >> of load (resistance) means less draw!!!!!!!----only during this dead > > >> space > > >> >> however....energy taken or pulled into the "pulsing areas" will bog > > >> things > > >> >> down.... > > >> >> > > >> >> OU systems once becoming OU as I have been saying (Hectors > > information) > > >> >> become EXPONENTIAL in their power output, and this explains WHY a > > little > > >> >> bit - Another guy I talked to had a pulse motor/generator a few years > > ago > > >> >> that LOVED to power things that had more and more load that would seem > > >> >> totally impossible to power from what it is taking to run the > > >> >> motor/generator system itself - more and more load, and the less and > > less > > >> >> draw - OPPOSITE of what you would think should happen. this guy said > > >> that > > >> >> after adding electric heaters, lights, whatever, he eventually got the > > >> >> system to run on nothing.... so there is all that....... > > >> >> > > >> >> My demo went very well - but not enough time to show everything. When > > I > > >> >> hooked up 24V to my motor at the very end, the cold air coming form > > the > > >> >> motor was very noticeable (endothermic affect) One guy got hit by a > > blast > > >> >> ten feet away and leaped out of his chair... I also charged up a > > battery > > >> >> lickety-split with the back EMF to show how the motor can be run > > >> >> continuously by switching batteries being recharged with ones running > > the > > >> >> motor and that was impressive to everyone, plus I had a scope running > > to > > >> >> show the draw to the motor during the tests too and the importance of > > the > > >> >> big cap banks. The splatter coils producing HV got a lot of > > attention, > > >> and > > >> >> a guy came up and measured the volts with his own meter - it said > > 197Vac > > >> >> tops on his meter, but I know it was probably more if we had hooked a > > >> scope > > >> >> to it... My shaft is putting out around 2.5watts@800 rpm right now, so > > >> >> NOBODY argued with me about if or if not my system is OU or not - it > > is > > >> >> pretty obvious to anyone and everyone seeing it so there wasnt any > > >> >> negativity the whole time from anybody - I felt like a rock star or > > >> >> something sometimes.... I got invited to another conference next > > spring > > >> to > > >> >> do a workshop, and had a offer for a big secret project that needs my > > >> motors > > >> >> to run some Tesla pumps too so we will see what is next. > > >> >> > > >> >> the electric bicycle isnt going so well right now - no power it > > >> seems...i > > >> >> have the Emagnets facing each other rather than spinning past one > > another > > >> so > > >> >> that might be it ... > > >> >> > > >> >> I also started a internet record company with my freind Jim who lives > > in > > >> >> Phoenix - here is the start of it all if you want to hear some music: > > >> >> http://homepages.go.com/~boomerecords/ > > >> >> > > >> >> Ciao > > >> >> Konehead > > >> >> > > >> >> website: > > >> >> http://homepages.go.com/homepages/e/n/z/enzok/ > > >> >> > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > > >> >> From: Stefan Hartmann > > >> >> To: Douglas L. Konzen > > >> >> Date: Saturday, August 05, 2000 4:00 AM > > >> >> Subject: Re: back from Conference ? > > >> >> > > >> >> >Hi Doug, > > >> >> >how was the conference ? > > >> >> >Did the folks like your motor ? > > >> >> > > > >> >> >Waht about the other inventors there ? > > >> >> >Anything new ? > > >> >> > > > >> >> >Can you post a short summary what happened there ?? > > >> >> > > > >> >> >Thanks ! > > >> >> >Regards, Stefan. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> >-- > > >> > > > >> >Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > > >> >-- > > >> >Hartmann Multimedia Service, > > >> >Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > > >> >Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > > >> >email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > > >> >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > > > > > >-- > > > > > >Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > > >-- > > >Hartmann Multimedia Service, > > >Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > > >Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > > >email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > > >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > > -- > > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 7 22:43:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA10670; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 22:42:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 22:42:33 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 01:41:36 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"DvhVQ3.0.Uc2.9tvZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16384 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: LaFonte Research Group now 25 The Research Group is now up to 25 members! I would like to thank Bob Squires for the hard work and materials he has put into building the first two machines for testing. If everyone in my past was as easy to work with as Bob, I would still have all my hair! Also I want to thank Jon McVetten for building and maintaining the group web site. There are a number of other people I want to thank, but want to get their ok to do so first. I have almost everyone's name now. As soon as they all come in I will put them on the web site. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 7 22:50:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13017; Mon, 7 Aug 2000 22:49:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 22:49:22 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <39.8827e0a.26c0f93e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 01:48:46 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_39.8827e0a.26c0f93e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"sUgQL1.0.EB3.YzvZv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16385 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re:To Stefan From Butch --part1_39.8827e0a.26c0f93e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/7/00 2:45:56 PM Central Daylight Time, harti@harti.com=20 writes: > BTW, during the attraction time of the ferrite disc you could close > the coil and extract energy, but then the rotation frequency will > be kept constant and not rising during this phase!=20 > This way you can also win energy > from 12 o=B4clock to 3 o=B4clock. > Good luck ! > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. Stefan, We will put all this in the test series. Thanks, Butch LaFonte --part1_39.8827e0a.26c0f93e_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-ye04.mx.aol.com (rly-ye04.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.201]) by air-ye01.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.11) with ESMTP; Mon, 07 Aug 2000 15:45:55 -0400 Received: from ck.egroups.com (ck.egroups.com [208.50.144.69]) by rly-ye04.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Mon, 07 Aug 2000 15:45:27 -0400 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-1378788-2667-965677232-HLafonte=aol.com@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.10.36] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Aug 2000 19:40:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 22985 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2000 19:40:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Aug 2000 19:40:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail2.sonnet.de) (212.93.6.232) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Aug 2000 19:40:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 4798 invoked by uid 1014); 7 Aug 2000 19:37:32 -0000 Received: from pec-53-12.tnt1.b2.uunet.de (HELO harti.com) ([149.225.53.12]) (envelope-sender ) by webmail2.sonnet.de (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 7 Aug 2000 19:37:32 -0000 Message-ID: <398F0F8F.15290D23@harti.com> Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, HLafonte@aol.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, "ou-builders@egroups.com" References: From: Stefan Hartmann MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list jlnlabs@egroups.com; contact jlnlabs-owner@egroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list jlnlabs@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 21:35:43 +0200 Reply-To: jlnlabs@egroups.com Subject: [jlnlabs] Re: [FG]: LaFonte Research Group site updated Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit HLafonte@aol.com schrieb: > http://members.aol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm > Site Updated Hi Butch, I guess, if the rotor is at 3 o´clock at http://members.aol.com/vettenrr/NEWCIR.jpg it must be moved away from the ferrite disc, so you have to power the coils at the next 90 degrees to 6 o´clock This requires the external power. If you go by 1/5 x L/R = 1/5 tau timeconstant, then you have about 95 % of the used energy inside the L coil stored which could be recycled. Now the qustion is, if the energy could be recycled this well and if the attarction to the ferrite disc will be more energy than the 5 % lost plus loss of the recycling ?? BTW, during the attraction time of the ferrite disc you could close the coil and extract energy, but then the rotation frequency will be kept constant and not rising during this phase! This way you can also win energy from 12 o´clock to 3 o´clock. Good luck ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! --------------------------------------------------------------------Do you like Space and Science? Win $25,000 Click Here! --------------------------------------------------------------------|e>- Messages archives at : http://www.egroups.com/group/jlnlabs/ To unsubscribe, send a blank email to jlnlabs-unsubscribe@egroups.com JLN Labs web site at: http://go.to/jlnlabs --part1_39.8827e0a.26c0f93e_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 8 07:19:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09656; Tue, 8 Aug 2000 07:17:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 07:17:34 -0700 Message-ID: <39901143.1FEA8E0E@harti.com> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 15:55:15 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wofgang Czapp CC: Olaf Berens , Robert Brachhausen , Peter Immel , Rolf Keppler , Ernesto Luis , Inge Schneider , "Werner =?iso-8859-1?Q?Schwarzw=E4lder?=" , Peter Treffinger , energie@schaeffer-apparatebau.de X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <002e01c000bb$36d9c660$206be195@j9j7y7> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UcM0R.0.iM2.-P1av"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16386 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Dingle watercar article in Philipines Daily ! http://www.inquirer.net/issues/aug99/aug12/features/fea_main.htm -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 8 07:31:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA15674; Tue, 8 Aug 2000 07:28:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 07:28:32 -0700 Message-ID: <399017EB.55F0BD69@harti.com> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 16:23:39 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TCajn2.0.lq3.Ga1av"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16387 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Entropysystems.com on the loose ?? http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,37963,00.html -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 8 08:19:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA30644; Tue, 8 Aug 2000 08:16:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 08:16:48 -0700 Message-ID: <00d001c0014c$5d33ec00$8002a8c0@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <002e01c000bb$36d9c660$206be195@j9j7y7> <39901143.1FEA8E0E@harti.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Dingle watercar article in Philipines Daily ! Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 11:21:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"7wk042.0.eU7.VH2av"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16388 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thanks Stefan for keeping us up to date on Dingle's Car. ----- Original Message ----- From: Stefan Hartmann To: Wofgang Czapp Cc: Olaf Berens ; Robert Brachhausen ; Peter Immel ; Rolf Keppler ; Ernesto Luis ; Inge Schneider ; Werner Schwarzwälder ; Peter Treffinger ; Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 9:55 AM Subject: [FG]: Dingle watercar article in Philipines Daily ! > > http://www.inquirer.net/issues/aug99/aug12/features/fea_main.htm > > -- > > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 8 15:15:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA08665; Tue, 8 Aug 2000 15:15:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 15:15:06 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:18:00 -0600 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Resent-Message-ID: <"rMVGT.0.672.gP8av"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16389 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: CORROBORATED: THE "SPEED OF LIGHT" CAN BE EXCEEDED! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN 11445 East Via Linda, No. 416 Scottsdale, Arizona 85259 (480) 657-3722 josephnewman@earthlink.net www.josephnewman.com FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (8/8/2000) JOSEPH NEWMAN'S HYPOTHESIS THAT THE "SPEED OF LIGHT CAN BE EXCEEDED" HAS BEEN PROVED! [7/20 ARTICLE FROM LOS ANGELES TIMES posted on site] www.josephnewman.com I compliment the credible thinking scientist described in the above article who has proved that light can exceed 186,282 miles per second. However, I wish for them and others to ponder and think on their own quote: "THE BROADEST MESSAGE IS NEVER TRUST YOUR TEXTBOOK" I encourage you to let go of the mental restrictions of "YOUR TEXTBOOKS" and therein become unconfused. By your own numerous experiments and accomplishments with light, you should then realize that: LIGHT HAS MASS. If it did not, then a laser's ability to penetrate metal that is 3/16" thick would be impossible. Of course, there are laser-metal-cutting companies located in most major cities across the U.S. Please read and master my book [The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman] and combine the facts I present with the above experiment concerning the speed of light. Allow your mind the freedom to dream. You will then clearly understand that light consists of GYROSCOPIC PARTICLES travelling in the same direction at the speed of light. Therein the historic confusion generated by the WAVE/PARTICLE DUALITY OF LIGHT vanishes and the mechanical laws of GYROSCOPIC ACTION explain said duality and opens your mind to the freedom to dream for the advancement of the human race. I salute you --- keep going forward. So that you may be inspired, my website now features pages 71 through 79 from my book [The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman] which includes Chapter 10 entitled QUANTUM MECHANICS & Chapter 11 entitled LIGHT. These pages should help you understand why -- after meeting with me and studying my book -- Dr. Swimmer, a top mathematician at Arizona State University for more than 30 years, signed a Declaration saying that I was correct by odds of "more than a trillion to one" of my findings being an "accidental occurrence". A Unified Mechanical Field Theory can be explained by an understanding of the mechanical interrelation- ships of the GYROSCOPIC PARTICLE! With respect to such a unified field theory, there is no question in science that I cannot answer as a result of my under- standing of the mechanical actions and attributes of the gyroscopic particle. Such an understanding includes an explanation for Inertia, Gravitation, Planetary Motion, Electromagnetism, Heat, and the fact that the speed of light can be exceeded which I originally predicted over 15 years ago in my book --- Chapter 26 entitled "THE PURSUIT OF TRUTH". Included also are pages 280 and 281 from my book. Hopefully, those two important pages will cause you to dream of what can be the HAPPY AND EXCITING FUTURE OF THE HUMAN RACE. Warmly, [Signed] Joseph W. Newman (480) 657-3722 [Pages from book posted on site.] To view the above-referenced article and pages, visit: www.josephnewman.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 8 15:47:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA19243; Tue, 8 Aug 2000 15:46:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 15:46:23 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:46:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: CORROBORATED: THE "SPEED OF LIGHT" CAN BE EXCEEDED! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8rtjs3.0.ai4._s8av"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16390 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 8 Aug 2000, Evan Soule wrote: > > I compliment the credible thinking scientist > described in the above article who has proved that > light can exceed 186,282 miles per second. > > However, I wish for them and others to ponder and > think on their own quote: > > "THE BROADEST MESSAGE IS NEVER TRUST YOUR TEXTBOOK" > > I encourage you to let go of the mental restrictions > of "YOUR TEXTBOOKS" and therein become unconfused. By > your own numerous experiments and accomplishments > with light, you should then realize that: > > LIGHT HAS MASS. > Actually, I'd like to present you all with these basic ideas which you won't find in your textbooks: Matter is condensed energy. Energy is dispersed matter. (Think of the applications of this!) **************************** Tesla noted in a couple places that energy is not bounded by the 186,000 miles-per-second law. I believe he discovered this in Colorado Springs in 1899. **************************** Check out this webpage: http://members.home.net/tumblewood/heresy That should give some of you a few ideas, too! Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 8 21:11:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15085; Tue, 8 Aug 2000 21:10:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 21:10:38 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: herman@antioch-college.edu Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 21:09:52 -0700 Message-ID: <20000808.210954.-326263.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-10,12-13,15,17,19,21-22,24,26,28,30,32-34,36-37,39,41,43-45,47-48,50,52,54-57,59-60,62,64,66-73,75-109 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"yTuZe.0.Wh3.-cDav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16391 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Unique Capacitive Generator Dear John and group, I value your opinion so I am asking about something that seems simple but maybe I am missing something. Please tell me whether this idea and invention has merit: Patent # 4095162 is interesting to me because I once tried an experiment like this. see this web page (if needed, paste the URL below into your browser): http://l2.espacenet.com/dips/bnsviewer?CY=ep&LG=en&DB=EPD&PN=US4095162&ID =US+++4095162A1+I+ Briefly what the patent describes is a glass tube just like a florescent light with no phosphorous coating on the inside surface of the glass. The gas could be any number of gasses including argon, neon, or others at an appropriate (low) pressure. The outside surface of the tube is covered with a single layer of aluminum foil. The basic idea is that the tube acts as a two plate capacitor with outer foil coating acting as one plate and gas acting as the other plate when it is ionized by a current flowing through the tube. This two plate capacitor is charged by an applied high voltage. The inventor claims that when the plasma is allowed to extinguish, the inside plate is not longer present so the capacitor becomes a single plate capacitor (outside plate only) so the capacitance greatly decreases. The capacitance decrease causes the voltage to climb greatly in response. About 10 years ago I had a similar idea myself, but I met with no success. I took an ordinary florescent light tube and wrapped aluminum foil around it. The aluminum foil was to act as one plate of a capacitor and the plasma inside the tube was to act as the other plate of a two plate capacitor. I got the idea from reading the book T.H. Moray, "The Sea of Energy" in which he describes a tube that might have been similar to this. I hoped that I could charge the capacitor to a given voltage, say 1000 volts and then observe a voltage spike when the plasma was extinguished. I thought that when the plasma was no longer conducting, the capacitor would change from a 2 plate capacitor to a 1 plate capacitor. I did not observe the spikes. I reasoned that perhaps the charges on the inside of the tube became trapped. I think this was the case because I saw sparks jump to/from the terminals of the tube. It would seem according to my experiment, Patent # 4095162 would not work as described in the patent because charge would get stuck in the tubes. However, in my experiment, I did build it exactly like what is described in the patent because I did not have an outer sphere and the tubes where coated with phosphorous. So I am still not sure I can discount this patent as invalid. You can increase the voltage across a capacitor by decreasing its capacitance which can be done by moving the plates apart. The Whimhurst Electrostatic generator does this. However it takes work to decrease the capacitance of a capacitor when it is charged. No energy for free unless some force does that work for you. I wonder if the invention described in US patent #4095162 was ever actually built and tested. I am not so sure it would work. What do all of you think ?? Tim --- In jlnlabs@egroups.com, "Luc Lachapelle" wrote: > Hello Geoff, Graham and all others ! > > I think what is described below is a one terminal capacitor ... As > an > example : > > Two concentric metal spheres forms a 2-terminal capacitor. > This is charged up to a potential V. > Then the C capacitor sphere is removed. > The remaining sphere is a 1-terminal capacitor with a capacity c. > > The potential on this sphere is c/C x V. > If c = 1 uF, and C = 50 uF, and V = 1000 volts, we then get a > momentary pulse of 20 million volts. > > See the Hiddink patent here he achieves this without any power > expenditure : > > http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US04095162__ > > Best regards. > > The Homopolar Dynamotor > http://members.xoom.com/nixia2000/ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 9 06:12:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02033; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 06:11:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 06:11:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3991528B.D8529B2A@harti.com> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 14:46:03 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jci8g1.0.XV.CYLav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16392 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: 2nd Dingle watercar article in Philipines Daily ! Hi All, there is another article about Dingle here: http://www.inquirer.net/issues/aug99/aug26/features/fea_7.htm Hallo Allerseits, einen weiteren Artikel von Daniel Dingle( 26. August 1999 ) gibt es unter folgender Url: http://www.inquirer.net/issues/aug99/aug26/features/fea_7.htm Mfg Robert Brachhausen > http://www.inquirer.net/issues/aug99/aug12/features/fea_main.htm > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 9 07:23:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA25804; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:23:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:22:59 -0700 Date: 9 Aug 2000 07:22:27 -0700 Message-ID: <20000809142227.18700.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> X-Sent: 9 Aug 2000 14:22:27 GMT Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: Geo Nostra X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.6.5.5 Resent-Message-ID: <"9-5Ej2.0._I6.3bMav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16393 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Question about T.Townsend Brown Does any body know any URLs about Brown's Patents or where I can get any copy of them? Any other information about electrogravity would be nice. _______________________________________________________________________ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html _______________________________________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 9 09:16:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA02796; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:15:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:15:54 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01c0021c$cb78b800$97d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:13:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C001FB.43C6E060" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"gtg0A3.0.Qh.wEOav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16394 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Electronics This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C001FB.43C6E060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How do you learn about basic electronics? There are so many things I = would like to do, but I know virtually nothing about electronics. I = can't read the schematics due to all the squiggly lines that I guess = mean something. And all the abbreviations and funky words, where do I = start? I've tried books, but the ones that I have read assume that I = already know half of it. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C001FB.43C6E060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    How do you learn about basic = electronics?=20 There are so many things I would like to do, but I know virtually = nothing about=20 electronics. I can't read the schematics due to all the squiggly lines = that I=20 guess mean something. And all the abbreviations and funky words, where = do I=20 start? I've tried books, but the ones that I have read assume that I = already=20 know half of it.
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C001FB.43C6E060-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 9 10:17:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA23509; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:17:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:17:15 -0700 Message-ID: <200008091215190450.0106660B@simreal.com> References: <000f01c0021c$cb78b800$97d666ce@default> <200008091200220240.00F8B4E2@simreal.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.40.41.05 Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 12:15:19 -0500 From: "Edwin Wise" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Electronics Resent-Message-ID: <"QV2kz3.0.Cl5.R8Pav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16395 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On 8/9/00, at 12:13 PM, Chris O'Barr wrote: >How do you learn about basic electronics? There are so many things I would like to do, but I know virtually nothing about electronics. I can't read the schematics due to all the squiggly lines that I guess mean something. And all the abbreviations and funky words, where do I start? I've tried books, but the ones that I have read assume that I already know half of it. There are a zillion books on the subject -- Horowitz & Hill's "The Art of Electronics" is a classic reference, and you can find other books like "Basic Electronics Theory" and a variety of electronics encyclopedias and cookbooks. However, for a truly low-level introduction, you probably can't beat the works of Forrest M. Mimms III -- his notebooks and handbooks can be found (of all places) at Radio Shack. Edwin! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 9 10:23:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA26352; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:23:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:23:21 -0700 Message-ID: <20000809172315.27243.qmail@web1104.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:23:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "A.J. Meierhoff" Subject: Re: [FG]: Electronics To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"jfhZ71.0.eR6.8EPav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16396 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com That sounds exactly like something i would have said not too long ago.here's a couple links i found by searching "electronics tutorial" http://www.twysted-pair.com/ http://www.proaxis.com/~iguanalabs/Begtut.htm good luck, A. James --- Chris O'Barr wrote: > How do you learn about basic electronics? There > are so many things I would like to do, but I know > virtually nothing about electronics. I can't read > the schematics due to all the squiggly lines that I > guess mean something. And all the abbreviations and > funky words, where do I start? I've tried books, but > the ones that I have read assume that I already know > half of it. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 9 11:15:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA18047; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:15:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:15:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3991A1B6.FA165B53@dialnet.net> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 13:23:50 -0500 From: Bob Squires X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Electronics References: <000f01c0021c$cb78b800$97d666ce@default> <200008091200220240.00F8B4E2@simreal.com> <200008091215190450.0106660B@simreal.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Y7aOK.0.tP4.v-Pav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16397 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear Ed ; Another good source that In think beats them all are the old armed forces institute courses on most subjects . In WW2 they took kids off the farm with totally empty heads .( I won't say it ) and made radio or radar technicians out of them in a few weeks. They left out all of the garbage and got the job done. I went to Sub school at the end of Dec. 1942 . We put a new boat in commission and headed for the pacific war zone on July 4 1943. We were all accomplished pros by the time we left Midway . Radio Shack has beginner building kits . Ask them this is their thing . Bob Edwin Wise wrote: > On 8/9/00, at 12:13 PM, Chris O'Barr wrote: > > >How do you learn about basic electronics? There are so many things I would > like to do, but I know virtually nothing about electronics. I can't read > the schematics due to all the squiggly lines that I guess mean something. > And all the abbreviations and funky words, where do I start? I've tried > books, but the ones that I have read assume that I already know half of it. > > There are a zillion books on the subject -- Horowitz & Hill's "The Art of > Electronics" is a classic reference, and you can find other books like > "Basic Electronics Theory" and a variety of electronics encyclopedias and > cookbooks. > > However, for a truly low-level introduction, you probably can't beat the > works of Forrest M. Mimms III -- his notebooks and handbooks can be found > (of all places) at Radio Shack. > > Edwin! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 9 13:48:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA12501; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 13:47:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 13:47:01 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.128] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Electronics Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 13:46:29 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Aug 2000 20:46:30.0138 (UTC) FILETIME=[E51D65A0:01C00242] Resent-Message-ID: <"OrzDm1.0.A33.5DSav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16398 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ok Chris... I took it in high school and went on from there... But I would suggest you try your local junior collage??? Baring that Go to rat shak and stock up on the engineering note books... They are about 5X6 inches and have notes on everything... Never pass up the chance to make something simple... Like a siren.... They really do teach a lot if you take the time to learn... Try changing one(one only) component... What happens... Stay away from rat shak!!! The only good products they sell are the books... Try Edmond Scientific for kits... Is there a good electronic supply house near you??? Look... Look close... Most people That work in a real electronics store will be sympathetic to your questions... And will give real answers... Just make sure you ask them in a way that they can give you a yes or no answer... And don't waste there time... so you don't get them fired... Better yet... Apply for a job... They may need some one to work week ends then you can read there books and spec sheets and get paid to do so... Definition... A real electronic store is one that has racks of small packaged resisters, diodes, capacitors, transistors, etc... Most don't even sell finished goods at all unless you count the tools like v.o.m.'s ... And remember this like all learning is fun!!! Timothy... >From: "Chris O'Barr" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: >Subject: [FG]: Electronics >Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:13:45 -0400 > How do you learn about basic electronics? There are so many things I >would like to do, but I know virtually nothing about electronics. I can't >read the schematics due to all the squiggly lines that I guess mean >something. And all the abbreviations and funky words, where do I start? >I've tried books, but the ones that I have read assume that I already know >half of it. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 9 16:02:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA23519; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:02:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:02:13 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c00251$f22213e0$033dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <20000809142227.18700.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 18:34:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"pDAVf3.0.Jl5.rBUav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16399 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Question about T.Townsend Brown There are many hundreds of websites on the internet that contain second, third, or fourth-hand references to Brown and his work. I'm still digging for the best myself. However, in my opinion, the best place to start is the website operated by the TT Brown family. It is one of a kind, and contains jump-off points to most aspects of Brown's career. Dig in and read it all! It is at: http://www.soteria.com/brown/docs/docs.htm Good luck! NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geo Nostra" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 10:22 AM Subject: [FG]: Question about T.Townsend Brown > Does any body know any URLs about Brown's Patents or > where I can get any copy of them? > > Any other information about electrogravity would be > nice. > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! > http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html > > _______________________________________________________________________ > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 9 16:15:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29066; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:14:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:14:47 -0700 Message-ID: <009501c00257$7dca63c0$b15cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: <20000809142227.18700.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Question about T.Townsend Brown Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 18:55:58 -0400 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"Gvwyh1.0.367.dNUav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16400 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com There is a web site about Brown at www.soteria.com/brown . I think they have some of his patents online. -- "I am not an Anarchist in *your* sense of the word : your brain is too dense for any known explosive to affect it." --Aleister Crowley From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 9 23:00:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA00917; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 22:58:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 22:58:54 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.28.94.207] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Question about T.Townsend Brown Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 22:58:22 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Aug 2000 05:58:22.0979 (UTC) FILETIME=[FDE7F530:01C0028F] Resent-Message-ID: <"gHG2p1.0.EE.UIaav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16401 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hay Jim... Do you have any idea who Aleister Crowley was??? I love the seemingly, simplicity of the overlying message... But a quote is only as good as it's creator... Sometimes we have to dig for truth... But it IS buried there... The question is, whether it is palatable once recovered??? Timothy... >From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." >"I am not an Anarchist in *your* sense of the word : >your brain is too dense for any known explosive to affect it." > > --Aleister Crowley ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 10 01:55:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA07634; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 01:53:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 01:53:07 -0700 Message-ID: <007101c002a7$0c7bae40$38eafea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: "skywatch discussion" , , "energy21" , "Blue" , , , Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 01:43:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006D_01C0026C.5C27A740" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"rPDu33.0.Ys1.nrcav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16402 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C0026C.5C27A740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote This concerns a question in a physics degree exam at the University of Copenhagen: "Describe how to determine the height of a skyscraper with a barometer." One student replied: "You tie a long piece of string to the neck of the barometer, then lower the barometer from the roof of the skyscraper to the ground. The length of the string plus the length of the barometer will equal the height of the building." This highly original answer so incensed the examiner that the student was failed immediately. He appealed on the grounds that his answer was indisputably correct, and the university appointed an independent arbiter to decide the case. The arbiter judged that the answer was indeed correct, but did not display any noticeable knowledge of physics. To resolve the problem it was decided to call the student in and allow him six minutes in which to provide a verbal answer which showed at least a minimal familiarity with the basic principles of physics. For five minutes the student sat in silence, forehead creased in thought. The arbiter reminded him that time was running out, to which the student replied that he had several extremely relevant answers, but couldn't make up his mind which to use. On being advised to hurry up the student replied as follows: "Firstly, you could take the barometer up to the roof of the skyscraper, drop it over the edge, and measure the time it takes to reach the ground. The height of the building can then be worked out from the formula H = 0.5g x t squared. But bad luck on the barometer. "Or if the sun is shining you could measure the height of the barometer, then set it on end and measure the length of its shadow. Then you measure the length of the skyscraper's shadow, and thereafter it is simple matter of proportional arithmetic to work out the height of the skyscraper. "But if you wanted to be highly scientific about it, you could tie a short piece of string to the barometer and swing it like a pendulum, first at ground level and then on the roof of the skyscraper. The height is worked out by the difference in the gravitational restoring force T = 2 pi sq root(l / g). "Or if the skyscraper has an outside emergency staircase, it would be easier to walk up it and mark off the height of the skyscraper in barometer lengths, then add them up. "If you merely wanted to be boring and orthodox about it, of course, you could use the barometer to measure the air pressure on the roof of the skyscraper and on the ground, and convert the difference in millibars into feet to give the height of the building. But since we are constantly being exhorted to exercise independence of mind and apply scientific methods, undoubtedly the best way would be to knock on the janitor's door and say to him 'If you would like a nice new barometer, I will give you this one if you tell me the height of this skyscraper'." The student was Niels Bohr, the only Dane to win the Nobel prize for Physics. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C0026C.5C27A740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
[ PHYSICS ] Anecdote

This concerns a question in a physics degree exam at = the=20 University of
Copenhagen: "Describe how to determine the height of a=20 skyscraper with
a barometer."
      One = student=20 replied: "You tie a long piece of string to the
neck of the = barometer, then=20 lower the barometer from the roof of the
skyscraper to the ground. = The length=20 of the string plus the length of
the barometer will equal the height = of the=20 building."
      This highly original answer = so=20 incensed the examiner that the
student was failed immediately. He = appealed on=20 the grounds that his
answer was indisputably correct, and the = university=20 appointed an
independent arbiter to decide the case. The arbiter = judged that=20 the
answer was indeed correct, but did not display any noticeable=20 knowledge
of physics. To resolve the problem it was decided to call = the=20 student
in and allow him six minutes in which to provide a verbal = answer=20 which
showed at least a minimal familiarity with the basic principles = of
physics.
      For five minutes the = student=20 sat in silence, forehead creased
in thought. The arbiter reminded him = that=20 time was running out, to
which the student replied that he had = several=20 extremely relevant
answers, but couldn't make up his mind which to = use. On=20 being advised
to hurry up the student replied as=20 follows:
      "Firstly, you could take the=20 barometer up to the roof of the
skyscraper, drop it over the edge, = and=20 measure the time it takes to
reach the ground. The height of the = building can=20 then be worked out
from the formula H =3D 0.5g x t squared. But bad = luck on the=20 barometer.
      "Or if the sun is shining = you could=20 measure the height of the
barometer, then set it on end and measure = the=20 length of its shadow.
Then you measure the length of the skyscraper's = shadow,=20 and thereafter
it is simple matter of proportional arithmetic to work = out the=20 height
of the skyscraper.
      "But if = you=20 wanted to be highly scientific about it, you could
tie a short piece = of=20 string to the barometer and swing it like a
pendulum, first at ground = level=20 and then on the roof of the skyscraper.
The height is worked out by = the=20 difference in the gravitational
restoring force T =3D 2 pi sq root(l = /=20 g).
      "Or if the skyscraper has an = outside=20 emergency staircase, it
would be easier to walk up it and mark off = the height=20 of the skyscraper
in barometer lengths, then add them=20 up.
      "If you merely wanted to be boring = and=20 orthodox about it, of
course, you could use the barometer to measure = the air=20 pressure on the
roof of the skyscraper and on the ground, and convert = the=20 difference in
millibars into feet to give the height of the building. = But=20 since we
are constantly being exhorted to exercise independence of = mind=20 and
apply scientific methods, undoubtedly the best way would be to = knock=20 on
the janitor's door and say to him 'If you would like a nice=20 new
barometer, I will give you this one if you tell me the height of=20 this
skyscraper'."
      The student was = Niels=20 Bohr, the only Dane to win the Nobel
prize for = Physics.
 
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
= ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C0026C.5C27A740-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 10 05:10:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA19932; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 05:10:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 05:10:21 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:10:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Question about T.Townsend Brown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TBYvv1.0.Kt4.jkfav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16403 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 9 Aug 2000, Timothy Flytch wrote: > Hay Jim... Do you have any idea who Aleister Crowley was??? > I love the seemingly, simplicity of the overlying message... But a quote is > only as good as it's creator... Sometimes we have to dig for truth... But it > IS buried there... The question is, whether it is palatable once > recovered??? > > Timothy... > I have read much of his writings. Fascinating individual. I think his most famous quote would be: "Do What Thou Wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law; Love under will." Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 10 06:42:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA12313; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 06:42:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 06:42:03 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000810082556.00941ae0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 08:41:57 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote In-Reply-To: <007101c002a7$0c7bae40$38eafea9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_2441468==_.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <"R6fzY1.0.903.e4hav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16404 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --=====================_2441468==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:43 AM 8/10/00 -0700, you wrote: > > >[ PHYSICS ] Anecdote > >This concerns a question in a physics degree exam at the University of >Copenhagen: "Describe how to determine the height of a skyscraper with >a barometer." > One student replied: "You tie a long piece of string to the >neck of the barometer, then lower the barometer from the roof of the >skyscraper to the ground. The length of the string plus the length of >the barometer will equal the height of the building." Certainly the most accurate method.... If of course you take into account the elasticity of the string. > "If you merely wanted to be boring and orthodox about it, of >course, you could use the barometer to measure the air pressure on the >roof of the skyscraper and on the ground, and convert the difference in >millibars into feet to give the height of the building. This is the expected answer and the least accurate of all. It is an example of the competence of the instructor. --=====================_2441468==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 01:43 AM 8/10/00 -0700, you wrote:
 
 
[ PHYSICS ] Anecdote

This concerns a question in a physics degree exam at the University of
Copenhagen: "Describe how to determine the height of a skyscraper with
a barometer."
      One student replied: "You tie a long piece of string to the
neck of the barometer, then lower the barometer from the roof of the
skyscraper to the ground. The length of the string plus the length of
the barometer will equal the height of the building."

Certainly the most accurate method....  If of course you take into account the elasticity of the string.

      "If you merely wanted to be boring and orthodox about it, of
course, you could use the barometer to measure the air pressure on the
roof of the skyscraper and on the ground, and convert the difference in
millibars into feet to give the height of the building.

This is the expected answer and the least accurate of all.  It is an example of the competence of the instructor.


--=====================_2441468==_.ALT-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 10 07:12:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA22345; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:11:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:11:59 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c002d4$a4b63220$64d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Electronics Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:09:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"aLGA_1.0.2T5.lWhav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16405 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I haven't even been to high school yet. I start my first year in about a week. There wasn't an electronics course available. There won't be one available throughout my four years either. And I don't want to sit around waiting for a course after high school , I'll check out Radio Shack's books. -----Original Message----- From: Timothy Flytch To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Electronics >Ok Chris... I took it in high school and went on from there... But I would >suggest you try your local junior collage??? Baring that Go to rat shak and >stock up on the engineering note books... They are about 5X6 inches and have >notes on everything... Never pass up the chance to make something simple... >Like a siren.... They really do teach a lot if you take the time to learn... >Try changing one(one only) component... What happens... Stay away from rat >shak!!! The only good products they sell are the books... Try Edmond >Scientific for kits... Is there a good electronic supply house near you??? >Look... Look close... Most people That work in a real electronics store will >be sympathetic to your questions... And will give real answers... Just make >sure you ask them in a way that they can give you a yes or no answer... And >don't waste there time... so you don't get them fired... Better yet... Apply >for a job... They may need some one to work week ends then you can read >there books and spec sheets and get paid to do so... > >Definition... A real electronic store is one that has racks of small >packaged resisters, diodes, capacitors, transistors, etc... Most don't even >sell finished goods at all unless you count the tools like v.o.m.'s ... > >And remember this like all learning is fun!!! >Timothy... > > >>From: "Chris O'Barr" >>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>To: >>Subject: [FG]: Electronics >>Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:13:45 -0400 >> How do you learn about basic electronics? There are so many things I >>would like to do, but I know virtually nothing about electronics. I can't >>read the schematics due to all the squiggly lines that I guess mean >>something. And all the abbreviations and funky words, where do I start? >>I've tried books, but the ones that I have read assume that I already know >>half of it. > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 10 07:16:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA25087; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:16:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:16:01 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01c002d5$35592c60$64d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:13:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C002B3.ADC14560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"N-J6h2.0.u76.Wahav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16406 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C002B3.ADC14560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ...that was precious... -----Original Message----- From: Anna M* To: skywatch discussion ; = freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; energy21 = ; Blue ; blackvault@topica.com = ; Antigravity@egroups.com = ; iufo@topica.com Date: Thursday, August 10, 2000 4:55 AM Subject: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote This concerns a question in a physics degree exam at the University of Copenhagen: "Describe how to determine the height of a skyscraper with a barometer." One student replied: "You tie a long piece of string to the neck of the barometer, then lower the barometer from the roof of the skyscraper to the ground. The length of the string plus the length of the barometer will equal the height of the building." This highly original answer so incensed the examiner that the student was failed immediately. He appealed on the grounds that his answer was indisputably correct, and the university appointed an independent arbiter to decide the case. The arbiter judged that the answer was indeed correct, but did not display any noticeable = knowledge of physics. To resolve the problem it was decided to call the student in and allow him six minutes in which to provide a verbal answer which showed at least a minimal familiarity with the basic principles of physics. For five minutes the student sat in silence, forehead creased in thought. The arbiter reminded him that time was running out, to which the student replied that he had several extremely relevant answers, but couldn't make up his mind which to use. On being advised to hurry up the student replied as follows: "Firstly, you could take the barometer up to the roof of the skyscraper, drop it over the edge, and measure the time it takes to reach the ground. The height of the building can then be worked out from the formula H =3D 0.5g x t squared. But bad luck on the = barometer. "Or if the sun is shining you could measure the height of the barometer, then set it on end and measure the length of its shadow. Then you measure the length of the skyscraper's shadow, and thereafter it is simple matter of proportional arithmetic to work out the height of the skyscraper. "But if you wanted to be highly scientific about it, you could tie a short piece of string to the barometer and swing it like a pendulum, first at ground level and then on the roof of the = skyscraper. The height is worked out by the difference in the gravitational restoring force T =3D 2 pi sq root(l / g). "Or if the skyscraper has an outside emergency staircase, it would be easier to walk up it and mark off the height of the = skyscraper in barometer lengths, then add them up. "If you merely wanted to be boring and orthodox about it, of course, you could use the barometer to measure the air pressure on the roof of the skyscraper and on the ground, and convert the difference = in millibars into feet to give the height of the building. But since we are constantly being exhorted to exercise independence of mind and apply scientific methods, undoubtedly the best way would be to knock = on the janitor's door and say to him 'If you would like a nice new barometer, I will give you this one if you tell me the height of this skyscraper'." The student was Niels Bohr, the only Dane to win the Nobel prize for Physics. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C002B3.ADC14560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<sigh>...that was precious...
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Anna M* <pantheon@ix.netcom.com>
= To:=20 skywatch discussion <skywatch_discussion@egrou= ps.com>;=20 freenrg-l@eskimo.com = <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>; = energy21=20 <energy21@listbot.com>; Blue=20 <bluemaas@yahoo.com>; = blackvault@topica.com <blackvault@topica.com>; = Antigravity@egroups.com = <Antigravity@egroups.com>; = iufo@topica.com <iufo@topica.com>
Date:=20 Thursday, August 10, 2000 4:55 AM
Subject: [FG]: [ = PHYSICS ]=20 Anecdote

 
 
[ PHYSICS ] Anecdote

This concerns a question in a physics degree exam = at the=20 University of
Copenhagen: "Describe how to determine the height of = a=20 skyscraper with
a barometer."
      One = student=20 replied: "You tie a long piece of string to the
neck of the = barometer, then=20 lower the barometer from the roof of the
skyscraper to the ground. = The=20 length of the string plus the length of
the barometer will equal = the height=20 of the building."
      This highly = original=20 answer so incensed the examiner that the
student was failed = immediately. He=20 appealed on the grounds that his
answer was indisputably correct, = and the=20 university appointed an
independent arbiter to decide the case. The = arbiter=20 judged that the
answer was indeed correct, but did not display any=20 noticeable knowledge
of physics. To resolve the problem it was = decided to=20 call the student
in and allow him six minutes in which to provide a = verbal=20 answer which
showed at least a minimal familiarity with the basic=20 principles of
physics.
      For five = minutes=20 the student sat in silence, forehead creased
in thought. The = arbiter=20 reminded him that time was running out, to
which the student = replied that=20 he had several extremely relevant
answers, but couldn't make up his = mind=20 which to use. On being advised
to hurry up the student replied as=20 follows:
      "Firstly, you could take = the=20 barometer up to the roof of the
skyscraper, drop it over the edge, = and=20 measure the time it takes to
reach the ground. The height of the = building=20 can then be worked out
from the formula H =3D 0.5g x t squared. But = bad luck=20 on the barometer.
      "Or if the sun is = shining=20 you could measure the height of the
barometer, then set it on end = and=20 measure the length of its shadow.
Then you measure the length of = the=20 skyscraper's shadow, and thereafter
it is simple matter of = proportional=20 arithmetic to work out the height
of the=20 skyscraper.
      "But if you wanted to be = highly=20 scientific about it, you could
tie a short piece of string to the = barometer=20 and swing it like a
pendulum, first at ground level and then on the = roof of=20 the skyscraper.
The height is worked out by the difference in the=20 gravitational
restoring force T =3D 2 pi sq root(l /=20 g).
      "Or if the skyscraper has an = outside=20 emergency staircase, it
would be easier to walk up it and mark off = the=20 height of the skyscraper
in barometer lengths, then add them=20 up.
      "If you merely wanted to be = boring and=20 orthodox about it, of
course, you could use the barometer to = measure the=20 air pressure on the
roof of the skyscraper and on the ground, and = convert=20 the difference in
millibars into feet to give the height of the = building.=20 But since we
are constantly being exhorted to exercise independence = of mind=20 and
apply scientific methods, undoubtedly the best way would be to = knock=20 on
the janitor's door and say to him 'If you would like a nice=20 new
barometer, I will give you this one if you tell me the height = of=20 this
skyscraper'."
      The student = was Niels=20 Bohr, the only Dane to win the Nobel
prize for = Physics.
 
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
<= /BODY> ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C002B3.ADC14560-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 10 07:51:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA08729; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:51:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:51:32 -0700 From: Charlie Hodgson Reply-To: Charlie_Hodgson@s2systems.com Organization: Society for Real Time To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Electronics Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 15:03:26 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain References: <000a01c002d4$a4b63220$64d666ce@default> In-Reply-To: <000a01c002d4$a4b63220$64d666ce@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00081015063108.00968@cougar> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA08702 Resent-Message-ID: <"a33h.0.I82.p5iav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16407 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Chris, Another source is the US Army training manuals. Many are available online at: http://155.217.58.58/atdls.htm. As one of the preivious respondents noted, the military teaches you what you need to know, and leaves out the fluff. Charlie. On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Chris O'Barr wrote: > I haven't even been to high school yet. I start my first year in about a > week. There wasn't an electronics course available. There won't be one > available throughout my four years either. And I don't want to sit around > waiting for a course after high school , I'll check out Radio Shack's books. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 10 12:43:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25886; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:42:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:42:32 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.34] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Cheap High Voltage? Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:42:22 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Aug 2000 19:42:22.0622 (UTC) FILETIME=[1A3ACBE0:01C00303] Resent-Message-ID: <"AN3le2.0.IK6.dMmav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16408 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I've been pondering a Pseudo-VDG and the post "Cheap High Voltage" opens the door for the question, If I were to take an ionizer, put it in a base, run a wire from it up the tube into the metal sphere at the top, would this charge the sphere in a manner like or similar to a regular VDG? Will it continue to build a charge beyond the output of the ionizer? If my understanding is correct (a possibility but by no means assured) then the output should continue to feed a charge to the sphere until it discharges. This would bypass the necessity of having belts and rollers simplifying the VDG construction. > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 10 12:59:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA32457; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:58:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:58:38 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.139] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Electronics Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:58:05 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Aug 2000 19:58:05.0357 (UTC) FILETIME=[4C24BDD0:01C00305] Resent-Message-ID: <"od6po1.0.1x7.jbmav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16409 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In that case Chris... Sweep floors... No seriously... Go to the local electronic(or computer store or any store that fixes electronic goods) and ask if they want you to sweep there floors... You then get two things... one is a little money witch can buy you components/kits Two is a discount price (most stores give employees discounts)... Two, you get all the free question and answers to any and all your electronic question... This may sound like a waste of time but consider that most of the local manufactures shop there so you may get the opportunity to move up to a far better job in the future... I swept floors and emptied garbage cans all through school... Not a bad way to go really... I always had more money than any of my friends :) Best of luck, Timothy... >From: "Chris O'Barr" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: >Subject: Re: [FG]: Electronics >Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:09:47 -0400 > > I haven't even been to high school yet. I start my first year in about >a >week. There wasn't an electronics course available. There won't be one >available throughout my four years either. And I don't want to sit around >waiting for a course after high school , I'll check out Radio Shack's >books. >-----Original Message----- >From: Timothy Flytch >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 4:48 PM >Subject: Re: [FG]: Electronics > > > >Ok Chris... I took it in high school and went on from there... But I >would > >suggest you try your local junior collage??? Baring that Go to rat shak >and > >stock up on the engineering note books... They are about 5X6 inches and >have > >notes on everything... Never pass up the chance to make something >simple... > >Like a siren.... They really do teach a lot if you take the time to >learn... > >Try changing one(one only) component... What happens... Stay away from >rat > >shak!!! The only good products they sell are the books... Try Edmond > >Scientific for kits... Is there a good electronic supply house near >you??? > >Look... Look close... Most people That work in a real electronics store >will > >be sympathetic to your questions... And will give real answers... Just >make > >sure you ask them in a way that they can give you a yes or no answer... >And > >don't waste there time... so you don't get them fired... Better yet... >Apply > >for a job... They may need some one to work week ends then you can read > >there books and spec sheets and get paid to do so... > > > >Definition... A real electronic store is one that has racks of small > >packaged resisters, diodes, capacitors, transistors, etc... Most don't >even > >sell finished goods at all unless you count the tools like v.o.m.'s ... > > > >And remember this like all learning is fun!!! > >Timothy... > > > > > >>From: "Chris O'Barr" > >>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >>To: > >>Subject: [FG]: Electronics > >>Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:13:45 -0400 > >> How do you learn about basic electronics? There are so many things >I > >>would like to do, but I know virtually nothing about electronics. I >can't > >>read the schematics due to all the squiggly lines that I guess mean > >>something. And all the abbreviations and funky words, where do I start? > >>I've tried books, but the ones that I have read assume that I already >know > >>half of it. > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 10 14:00:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA25513; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 14:00:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 14:00:03 -0700 Message-ID: <013b01c0030d$d64247a0$555dadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Question about T.Townsend Brown Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 16:50:38 -0400 Organization: Unconventional Conventionalists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"oWd-m2.0.VE6.IVnav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16410 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Hay Jim... Do you have any idea who Aleister Crowley was??? Yes. Sure, he said some strange things at times, but I've read his autobiography and he appears to be sane and quite intelligent. -- "I am not an Anarchist in *your* sense of the word : your brain is too dense for any known explosive to affect it." --Aleister Crowley From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 10 16:12:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA09737; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 16:11:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 16:11:44 -0700 Message-ID: <02ab01c00321$10cc4340$8002a8c0@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Cheap High Voltage? Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:16:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"egPug3.0.0O2.mQpav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16411 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com That would be great but the question I have is would we not need a positive ionizer to charge the Grav Cap with? ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin Cain To: Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Cheap High Voltage? > I've been pondering a Pseudo-VDG and the post "Cheap High Voltage" opens the > door for the question, If I were to take an ionizer, put it in a base, run a > wire from it up the tube into the metal sphere at the top, would this charge > the sphere in a manner like or similar to a regular VDG? Will it continue > to build a charge beyond the output of the ionizer? > > If my understanding is correct (a possibility but by no means assured) then > the output should continue to feed a charge to the sphere until it > discharges. This would bypass the necessity of having belts and rollers > simplifying the VDG construction. > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 10 19:45:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA25101; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:45:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:45:15 -0700 Message-ID: <39936795.636F357E@harti.com> Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 04:40:21 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GhomG.0.-76.xYsav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16412 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Hendershot pics posted ! Hi All, I just posted all Hendershot pics I could find at: http://www.overunity.com/hendershot/ I guess it works via Barckhausen-noise generation in the Iron magnetizer. Look how close this resembles the Garry motor design with its neutral magnetic line. (in Hend10.jpg you can see, that the magnetizer has 2 Iron bars, one at the horseshoe magnet and one in front of the coils) This seems to be a Br-field enhanced Barckhausen-noise generator. So does anyone use Spice or another simulator program and can you please simulate all these LC circuits with this simulator software and add at the magnetizer coils white noise to the coil voltages ? Will this give a resonance amplifier this way powered by the Barckhausen noise in resonance with the mechanical vibration of the magnetizer ? Please let us know, you simulator pros. Thanks ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 10 20:23:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA05339; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39936D9C.FC19E5A5@harti.com> Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 05:06:04 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cGJpg2.0.EJ1.uxsav"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16413 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Hendershot principle To make it more clear: I guess, when the magnetizer Iron bar tilts back and forth between the neutral line (like in the Garry motor) the iron bar changes its magnetisation back and forth, so it is genrating every time Barckhausen noise jumps inside the iron bar. As the 2 coils seems to be fixed with their cores to the Iron bar, there must be an induction noise voltage during the Iron bar tilting inside the coils which will drive the LC circuits into resonance with the mechanical vibration frequency of the iron bar tilting. There is a resonance between the LC resonance frequency and the mechanical tilting frequency of the bar, which could be adjusted at the knob of the iron bar magnetizer. What do you think about this explanation ? The induction voltages from the Barckhausen tilting induction pulses could be quite high with fast tilting, so this generates enough power to light a lamp. See also in the picture with the powered radio load, that the magnetizer is much bigger and thus this Barckhausen noise generator delivers more power output ! Regards, Stefan. Stefan Hartmann schrieb: > > Hi All, > > I just posted all Hendershot pics I could find > at: > http://www.overunity.com/hendershot/ > > I guess it works via Barckhausen-noise generation in the Iron > magnetizer. > Look how close this resembles the Garry motor design with its neutral > magnetic line. > (in Hend10.jpg you can see, that the magnetizer has 2 Iron bars, one at > the > horseshoe magnet and one in front of the coils) > This seems to be a Br-field enhanced Barckhausen-noise generator. > > So does anyone use Spice or another simulator program and can you please > simulate > all these LC circuits with this simulator software and add at the > magnetizer coils white noise to the coil voltages ? > > Will this give a resonance amplifier this way powered by the Barckhausen > noise in resonance with the mechanical vibration of the magnetizer ? > > Please let us know, you simulator pros. > Thanks ! > > -- > > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 10 23:22:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA26521; Thu, 10 Aug 2000 23:21:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 23:21:30 -0700 Message-ID: <20000811062056.19279.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 23:20:56 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"TA23E2.0.5U6.fjvav"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16414 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Teslafy Account/ 7 jpegs/ is this what they call FTP? I think this a really jive way of doing things,just to submit jpeg files on the internet, so I have indicated that in several jpegs what is described. This is a method of inputing high frequency signals by natural oscillation to a water sample. If you go to driveway.com and register teslafy as a password you are supposed to have internet access to those pics, so it is said, if they dont let you in you need another password available at my messageboard. So essentially I have put up 11 web pages but still do not understand how to make a single jpeg file that anyone can click on and see, something everyone knows how to do but me! So I am disgusted and describe 7 in a row now on this misunderstood angelfire free internet service. 3 of these are arc bar shots showing interference effects on the VHS camera. One shows the inductor position between arc bars for scope sensor reading, also that scope form at 60 hz sweep reading of 2ms/div, showing flatline deflection of zero potential reference beam, Another scope reading in the actual magnetic field of the coils showing the BPS rate at the arc bars, a dark shot showing scalar deflection on TV coupling selection, a actual AC coupled shot of the same in phase, and a .2 ms/ scope form of same. So this all nonscense because each jpeg file contains no space to describe what it is, so what good is the service? The only good is you can put a picture, but not enough words to describe each one. So I have scribbled irrevalent comments going past their descriptions on some jpegs. I really dont understand how driveway expects folks to place jpegs there? Is there a URL somewhere? To end this diatribe the pics are from placing a water cell in parallel to the high frequency source, to see how that sample vibrates, But the cell isnt pictured there, as I dont think I got the whole picture right, if I did I wouldnt being doing things this way. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 11 04:55:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA29933; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 04:55:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 04:55:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3993E883.88F980F1@harti.com> Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:50:27 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Rv3qJ1.0.YJ7.ec-av"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16415 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: More on Hendershot http://www.borderlands.de/energy.hendershot.php3 -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 11 09:58:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA20294; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 09:42:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 09:42:44 -0700 Message-ID: <009b01c003b1$ebd56760$a60c9fca@xplornote> From: "xplorer" To: References: <4.2.0.58.20000810082556.00941ae0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 22:41:28 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0037_01C003E5.499B9120" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"OfhtG2.0._y4.3q2bv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16416 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C003E5.499B9120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable you misspelled incompetence... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Charles Ford=20 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: 2000 August 10, Thursday 20:41 Subject: Re: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote At 01:43 AM 8/10/00 -0700, you wrote: =20 [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote This concerns a question in a physics degree exam at the University = of Copenhagen: "Describe how to determine the height of a skyscraper = with a barometer." One student replied: "You tie a long piece of string to the neck of the barometer, then lower the barometer from the roof of the skyscraper to the ground. The length of the string plus the length = of the barometer will equal the height of the building." Certainly the most accurate method.... If of course you take into = account the elasticity of the string. "If you merely wanted to be boring and orthodox about it, of course, you could use the barometer to measure the air pressure on = the roof of the skyscraper and on the ground, and convert the difference = in millibars into feet to give the height of the building.=20 This is the expected answer and the least accurate of all. It is an = example of the competence of the instructor. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C003E5.499B9120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
you misspelled = incompetence...
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Charles = Ford=20
Sent: 2000 August 10, Thursday=20 20:41
Subject: Re: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ]=20 Anecdote

At 01:43 AM 8/10/00 -0700, you = wrote:

 
[ PHYSICS ] = Anecdote

This=20 concerns a question in a physics degree exam at the University=20 of
Copenhagen: "Describe how to determine the height of a = skyscraper=20 with
a barometer."
      One student = replied:=20 "You tie a long piece of string to the
neck of the barometer, = then lower=20 the barometer from the roof of the
skyscraper to the ground. The = length=20 of the string plus the length of
the barometer will equal the = height of=20 the building."

Certainly the most = accurate=20 method....  If of course you take into account the elasticity of = the=20 string.

      "If you = merely=20 wanted to be boring and orthodox about it, of
course, you could = use the=20 barometer to measure the air pressure on the
roof of the = skyscraper and=20 on the ground, and convert the difference in
millibars into feet = to give=20 the height of the building.

This is the = expected=20 answer and the least accurate of all.  It is an example of the = competence=20 of the instructor.


------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C003E5.499B9120-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 11 11:56:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA01318; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:56:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:56:12 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01c003c5$7f709860$fad666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 14:53:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C003A3.F7AF7E80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"G-p39.0.TK.Bn4bv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16417 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C003A3.F7AF7E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ...I believe he was trying to spell competence, which he did = successfully... -----Original Message----- From: xplorer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, August 11, 2000 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote you misspelled incompetence... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Charles Ford=20 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: 2000 August 10, Thursday 20:41 Subject: Re: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote At 01:43 AM 8/10/00 -0700, you wrote: =20 [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote This concerns a question in a physics degree exam at the = University of Copenhagen: "Describe how to determine the height of a skyscraper = with a barometer." One student replied: "You tie a long piece of string to the neck of the barometer, then lower the barometer from the roof of = the skyscraper to the ground. The length of the string plus the length = of the barometer will equal the height of the building." Certainly the most accurate method.... If of course you take into = account the elasticity of the string. "If you merely wanted to be boring and orthodox about it, of course, you could use the barometer to measure the air pressure on = the roof of the skyscraper and on the ground, and convert the = difference in millibars into feet to give the height of the building.=20 This is the expected answer and the least accurate of all. It is an = example of the competence of the instructor. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C003A3.F7AF7E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
...I believe he was trying to spell competence, = which he did=20 successfully...
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 xplorer <xplorer@indo.net.id>
To:= freenrg-l@eskimo.com <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
D= ate:=20 Friday, August 11, 2000 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [FG]: [ = PHYSICS ]=20 Anecdote

you misspelled = incompetence...
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Charles Ford=20
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Sent: 2000 August 10, = Thursday=20 20:41
Subject: Re: [FG]: [ PHYSICS = ]=20 Anecdote

At 01:43 AM 8/10/00 -0700, you = wrote:

 
[ PHYSICS ]=20 Anecdote

This concerns a question in a physics degree exam = at the=20 University of
Copenhagen: "Describe how to determine the height = of a=20 skyscraper with
a barometer."
      = One=20 student replied: "You tie a long piece of string to the
neck of = the=20 barometer, then lower the barometer from the roof of = the
skyscraper to=20 the ground. The length of the string plus the length of
the = barometer=20 will equal the height of the = building."

Certainly=20 the most accurate method....  If of course you take into = account the=20 elasticity of the string.

      "If = you merely=20 wanted to be boring and orthodox about it, of
course, you could = use the=20 barometer to measure the air pressure on the
roof of the = skyscraper and=20 on the ground, and convert the difference in
millibars into = feet to=20 give the height of the building.

This is = the=20 expected answer and the least accurate of all.  It is an = example of the=20 competence of the=20 instructor.


------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C003A3.F7AF7E80-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 11 19:50:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA32563; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 19:43:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 19:43:55 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000811215054.00969a80@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 21:51:32 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote In-Reply-To: <009b01c003b1$ebd56760$a60c9fca@xplornote> References: <4.2.0.58.20000810082556.00941ae0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hhZIk.0.by7.gdBbv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16418 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com So I see...

We all have our personal flaws...


At 10:41 PM 8/11/2000 +0700, you wrote:
you misspelled incompetence...
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Ford
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Sent: 2000 August 10, Thursday 20:41
Subject: Re: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote

At 01:43 AM 8/10/00 -0700, you wrote:

 
[ PHYSICS ] Anecdote

This concerns a question in a physics degree exam at the University of
Copenhagen: "Describe how to determine the height of a skyscraper with
a barometer."
      One student replied: "You tie a long piece of string to the
neck of the barometer, then lower the barometer from the roof of the
skyscraper to the ground. The length of the string plus the length of
the barometer will equal the height of the building."

Certainly the most accurate method....  If of course you take into account the elasticity of the string.

      "If you merely wanted to be boring and orthodox about it, of
course, you could use the barometer to measure the air pressure on the
roof of the skyscraper and on the ground, and convert the difference in
millibars into feet to give the height of the building.

This is the expected answer and the least accurate of all.  It is an example of the competence of the instructor.


Charlie Ford
cjford1@yahoo.com
cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 11 19:53:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA01618; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 19:47:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 19:47:02 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000811215255.00992140@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 21:54:41 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote In-Reply-To: <001c01c003c5$7f709860$fad666ce@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qpzoa3.0.9P.bgBbv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16419 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Oh this has ben fun...    now we can move on to the latest overunity device...

The peanut butter/cat engine...

At 02:53 PM 8/11/2000 -0400, you wrote:
...I believe he was trying to spell competence, which he did successfully...
-----Original Message-----
From: xplorer <xplorer@indo.net.id>
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Friday, August 11, 2000 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote

you misspelled incompetence...
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Ford
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Sent: 2000 August 10, Thursday 20:41
Subject: Re: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote

At 01:43 AM 8/10/00 -0700, you wrote:

 
[ PHYSICS ] Anecdote

This concerns a question in a physics degree exam at the University of
Copenhagen: "Describe how to determine the height of a skyscraper with
a barometer."
      One student replied: "You tie a long piece of string to the
neck of the barometer, then lower the barometer from the roof of the
skyscraper to the ground. The length of the string plus the length of
the barometer will equal the height of the building."

Certainly the most accurate method....  If of course you take into account the elasticity of the string.

      "If you merely wanted to be boring and orthodox about it, of
course, you could use the barometer to measure the air pressure on the
roof of the skyscraper and on the ground, and convert the difference in
millibars into feet to give the height of the building.

This is the expected answer and the least accurate of all.  It is an example of the competence of the instructor.


Charlie Ford
cjford1@yahoo.com
cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 11 19:58:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA05172; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 19:57:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 19:57:40 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000811215927.0099e570@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 22:05:22 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: [ PHYSICS ] Anecdote In-Reply-To: <007101c002a7$0c7bae40$38eafea9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"s1Ce73.0.jG1.ZqBbv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16420 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 01:43 AM 8/10/2000 -0700, you wrote: > > >[ PHYSICS ] Anecdote > >This concerns a question in a physics degree exam at the University of >Copenhagen: "Describe how to determine the height of a skyscraper with >a barometer." It is quite possible that Niels... In order to be noticed as one brilliant man in a sea of stupidity deliberately brought the challenge upon himself. I have noticed that there are times when it is best to make a complete fool of yourself. Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 11 20:13:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA10518; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 20:11:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 20:11:51 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000811220612.0096acf0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 22:19:32 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: More on Hendershot In-Reply-To: <3993E883.88F980F1@harti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"YDn7Z1.0.Fa2.s1Cbv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16421 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Stefan: Before coming to an understanding if this material by translating it to English for my reading pleasure. I have realized that this process could take months. I would of course better learn the native tongue of my ancestors.... but... I think many of us would be better served by an English version. I am not asking you to sit down and translate it yourself (this would only serve to waist your time) but if there is already some English copy I would appreciate a nudge in that direction. At 01:50 PM 8/11/2000 +0200, you wrote: >http://www.borderlands.de/energy.hendershot.php3 > >-- > >Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, >Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 11 20:32:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA15290; Fri, 11 Aug 2000 20:27:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 20:27:25 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 22:30:29 -0600 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Resent-Message-ID: <"8uxpM3.0.ck3.TGCbv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16422 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: UPDATE FROM GERMANY FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE --- August 11, 2000 To: The Good People of the World! I just received a telephone call from Hans (in Germany), an Electrical Engineer who purchased COLLECTIBLE ENERGY MACHINE UNIT #4. Hans excitedly told me that: "I have your 4th Unit operating at 1,000 RPMs with a transformer connected to capacitors and then to your 4th Unit. There is MORE power coming from the capacitors that is going into them from the transformer!" Power to the People! [Signed] Joseph Westley Newman (480) 657-3722 www.josephnewman.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 12 06:21:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA12716; Sat, 12 Aug 2000 06:20:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 06:20:55 -0700 Message-ID: <39954E10.6D4DA623@harti.com> Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 15:16:00 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: More on Hendershot References: <4.2.0.58.20000811220612.0096acf0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZQjgv2.0.b63.tyKbv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16423 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Try automatic translation at http://babelfish.altavista.com Charles Ford schrieb: > > Stefan: > > Before coming to an understanding if this material by translating it to > English for my reading pleasure. I have realized that this process could > take months. I would of course better learn the native tongue of my > ancestors.... but... I think many of us would be better served by an > English version. > > I am not asking you to sit down and translate it yourself (this would only > serve to waist your time) but if there is already some English copy I > would appreciate a nudge in that direction. > > At 01:50 PM 8/11/2000 +0200, you wrote: > >http://www.borderlands.de/energy.hendershot.php3 > > -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 12 06:31:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA15378; Sat, 12 Aug 2000 06:31:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 06:31:15 -0700 Message-ID: <39955079.40ACA7ED@harti.com> Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 15:26:17 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Rwyd-1.0.2m3.Z6Lbv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16424 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Antigravity RealVideo and Hutchinson experiments http://www.monmouth.com/~bcornet/bushman2.ram Copy this link into your started RealVideo Player ! In the middle there is a blue corona craft visible hovering. What is this ? Is this the Black project Manta Ray ? At the ends of the movie there are scenes from Hutchinson levitating objects. Especially the heavy canonball is interesting ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 12 10:26:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA24498; Sat, 12 Aug 2000 10:20:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 10:20:31 -0700 Message-ID: <00ee01c00480$6019c340$e12f9fca@xplornote> From: "xplorer" To: References: <39955079.40ACA7ED@harti.com> Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 23:44:26 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zMvFm1.0.c-5.VTObv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16425 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Antigravity RealVideo and Hutchinson experiments No clue as to how this works. I get a 10 second file download: no video, no audio, nothing. Try again... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Hartmann" To: ; ; "Free Energy" ; "Newman-L Mailing List" Sent: 2000 August 12, Saturday 20:26 Subject: [FG]: Antigravity RealVideo and Hutchinson experiments | http://www.monmouth.com/~bcornet/bushman2.ram | | Copy this link into your started RealVideo Player ! | | In the middle there is a blue corona craft visible hovering. | What is this ? Is this the Black project Manta Ray ? | | At the ends of the movie there are scenes from Hutchinson | levitating objects. Especially the heavy canonball is | interesting ! | -- | | Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. | -- | Hartmann Multimedia Service, | Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany | Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 | email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net | http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! | | From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 12 12:33:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA16028; Sat, 12 Aug 2000 12:33:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 12:33:08 -0700 Message-ID: <3995A7DE.62961A66@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 15:39:10 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" CC: "nuenergy2@listbot.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OqcsO2.0.9w3.qPQbv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16426 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Link to the electric sun theory http://www.users.uswest.net/~dascott/Sun.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 12 18:37:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA16114; Sat, 12 Aug 2000 18:37:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 18:37:16 -0700 Message-ID: <3995FD41.838250AE@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 21:43:30 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3wXrI3.0.dx3.ClVbv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16427 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Link to "the Electric Universe" theory http://www.electric-universe.de/frame/frameset.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 12 20:46:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA04964; Sat, 12 Aug 2000 20:45:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 20:45:57 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000812223833.0098a970@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 22:53:39 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: More on Hendershot In-Reply-To: <39954E10.6D4DA623@harti.com> References: <4.2.0.58.20000811220612.0096acf0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"95spS.0.PD1.qdXbv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16428 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Stefan: I see the software geeks have ben busy again making this translator (I thought impossible) into a reality. Between my own English/German dictionary, This translator program and my own (week) knowledge of German... I should be able to learn much. Not only in this science but also in my own family history. There are many letters and other writings I have kept from my late grandfather and great uncle that are still un translated... Charlie At 03:16 PM 8/12/2000 +0200, you wrote: >Try automatic translation at >http://babelfish.altavista.com > > >Charles Ford schrieb: > > > > Stefan: > > > > Before coming to an understanding if this material by translating it to > > English for my reading pleasure. I have realized that this process could > > take months. I would of course better learn the native tongue of my > > ancestors.... but... I think many of us would be better served by an > > English version. > > > > I am not asking you to sit down and translate it yourself (this would only > > serve to waist your time) but if there is already some English copy I > > would appreciate a nudge in that direction. > > > > At 01:50 PM 8/11/2000 +0200, you wrote: > > >http://www.borderlands.de/energy.hendershot.php3 > > > > > >-- > >Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, >Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net >http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 12 20:58:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA07787; Sat, 12 Aug 2000 20:57:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 20:57:39 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000812230434.0097fdd0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 23:05:21 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Antigravity RealVideo and Hutchinson experiments In-Reply-To: <00ee01c00480$6019c340$e12f9fca@xplornote> References: <39955079.40ACA7ED@harti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"ElS4r1.0.av1.ooXbv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16429 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I used the real player G2... came across just fine At 11:44 PM 8/12/2000 +0700, you wrote: >No clue as to how this works. >I get a 10 second file download: > no video, no audio, nothing. >Try again... >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Stefan Hartmann" >To: ; ; "Free Energy" >; "Newman-L Mailing List" >Sent: 2000 August 12, Saturday 20:26 >Subject: [FG]: Antigravity RealVideo and Hutchinson experiments > > >| http://www.monmouth.com/~bcornet/bushman2.ram >| >| Copy this link into your started RealVideo Player ! >| >| In the middle there is a blue corona craft visible hovering. >| What is this ? Is this the Black project Manta Ray ? >| >| At the ends of the movie there are scenes from Hutchinson >| levitating objects. Especially the heavy canonball is >| interesting ! >| -- >| >| Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. >| -- >| Hartmann Multimedia Service, >| Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >| Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 >| email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net >| http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! >| >| Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 13 00:05:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA10052; Sun, 13 Aug 2000 00:05:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 00:05:12 -0700 Message-ID: <39964A15.9C0E702E@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 03:11:17 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"h1S753.0.hS2.dYabv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16430 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Remote Viewing Free Energy Devices.... Hi All, Ok, now the psychics are getting into the act! Check this out. MJ http://www.mountbaldy.com/ZPED/free.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 13 13:42:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA01774; Sun, 13 Aug 2000 13:41:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 13:41:15 -0700 Message-ID: <20000813204041.13843.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 13:40:41 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"q4acv3.0.XR.hVmbv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16431 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: NE Ohio Teslafest I have forwarded the following entry to the tesla list and dont make the practice of simultaneous entries to discussion lists as per Jerry Decker style of respect for lists. So I think this is getting the job done as a resubmission. Investigation and critical analysis is always the order of the day to understand any possible free energy scheme so I am resubmitting the same idea contained in Puharich idea of putting the load within a resonant circuit, and allowing that load to be a low resistance electrolysis and wanted to make a comment about the illusive nature of free energy. In the following case example described as an electrolysis process there is a given 28/1 rise of amperage given by actual approaching of the water cell to zero resistance, which never actually occurs. I have never yet used an electrolyte in ideas of water fractioning, as that ordinary water should be approached first to ascertain the qualities of water fractioning possible at high frequency, which is entirely possible as I have created it on small scale experiments. Nevertheless for demonstration of 29 plates of 36 square inches apiece at 3/4 inch separation, with parallel arrangement the resistance is negligible. Now on either side of the electrolysisor polaritites in parallel wiring are 20 ohms of 14 gauge wire of .23 Henry, AND ALSO 7500 ft each. This length by tesla quarter wavelength theory yeilds 31,250 hz as a resonating value, close to the 32,820 hz mentioned by Puharich as a resonant 3rd harmonic of the tetrahedral water molecule resonance. Neglecting the high frequency considerations brought on by arc gaps the q of the coil system at 28 means that 28 more times amperage gets circulated than inputed, however a 28 fold step down ferromagnetic transformer can do the same thing. The needed voltage potential to make 2 volts across the device then becomes 28*2=48 volts on this hypothetical example. Thus if 1 amp conduction is achieved at the water cell : 48 volts @ 1/28 A is inputed in lossless transformation conditions, something questionable at 360 hz conditions. To contrast the supposed free energy example posed by using large copper magnetic conductors, a 24 volt input from the 360 hz alternator phase across two 20 ohm resistances is 10 ohms, enabling conduction of 2.4 or 1.2 amps on each branch. Its ordinary reactive amperage consumption then becomes 28 times less this value or .085 Amps. The input at tank circuit condition then becomes 28 times less that value to produce the same current .085 A for only 3 ma. Thus for a .07 watt input we are doing the same work that a step down transformer would have to use at 48 volts consuming the same 1/28th the current or .14 watts. So a seeming discrepancy exists. Following is cited post --- Tesla list wrote: > Original poster: "harvey norris" > > > Hi all: I dont think I noticed any teslathons in > Ohio > lately, but it seems like its time for one before > the > weather becomes like Ohio again. I dont have a tesla > coil to demonstrate but Metlicka Marc > expressed an interest in > attending. I need to get a gauge on how many people > would be interested in attending with coils, so > write > off list if you have an interest. Last year at the > Mid > Ohio Teslafest Dr Rezsortorski did the best > demonstration of high frequency in many forms that I > have ever seen, so there are some avante garde > coilers > in the area. For my part I can give many > demonstrations of induced high frequency effects on > high induction coils. I plan to set up a field plate > and show how 4 different inductors have 4 different > frequencies induced from that same electric field > plate. I now have 4 scopes and wish to do this demo > to > show what my MWO theory is all about, and that the > other scopes all show the same phenomenon. I also > invite any guests to bring their own scopes and > sensing coils to show how each coil rings in its own > frequency in these fields. Extra probe leads are > needed. > > Also a demonstration of the 360 hz 6 phase > alternator > system to achieve resonant rise of voltage of a .47 > Henry induction coil system is planned. This is > pictured at > http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/prototype.html > This coil system, (not yet placed on webpages)has a > Q > of 4.8 at 60 hz because it has only 39 ohms on > 15,000 > ft of 14 gauge wire! The q at 360 hz is predicted > around 28. This means that the 25 /30 volt output > of > the alternators can be stepped up to about 700 volts > without the use of a transformer! Indeed a > transformer > application at 360 hz seems problematic, but 3 > different 3 phase tranformers are also available to > anyone crazy enough to try running a 360 hz tesla > coil > set up. But dont blame me if something fries!! But > you > cant fry any of the input components since the > stator > windings are only 1 ohm! > > The unusual thing about using resonant rise of > voltage > as an input is that it is load dependent. I also > plan > to show how placing the dead short of an > electrolysisor across a 180 phased series resonance > at > the midpoints of those resonances, in turn reduces > that application of voltage automatically down to > the > voltage near the thermoneutral electrolysis voltage. > This is then predicted to turn the circuit into a > parallel resonant condition where the amperage > through > the electrolysisor then becomes 28 times greater > than > the amperage input from the alternator phase, by > virtue of the resonant rise of amperage available in > parallel resonance. > > This is planned for a Saturday weekend in > September, > but any day is open. Most working folks like > Saturdays. > Sincere in the art/ HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 13 17:53:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00377; Sun, 13 Aug 2000 17:52:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 17:52:45 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c00589$c815bc60$b03dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:51:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C00568.3CB1D940" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"vmJZv2.0.O5.TBqbv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16432 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: TT Brown gravitator. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C00568.3CB1D940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good evening, gentlemen; As promised, I have begun to play with my replication of the T T = Brown style litharge / beeswax gravitator cell using the 50kV supply I = recently acquired. I am still dealing with arc-over at about 38 to 39 = kV, but MAY be starting to see some signs of movement during the initial = impulse of displacement current, with the gravitator disc suspended from = a 50 cm long hair wire. At that suspension length, the physical = displacement is only about 1 to 1.5 mm, with impulses of about 35 kV. = Indeed, the movement SEEMS to be in the direction of the positive pole. = Must repeat, repeat, repeat! It also seems likely that I will have to = build a larger litharge/ beeswax mass to withstand arc-over. But it may = be the start of replicating what Brown and Biefeld saw in 1926. I have taken some digital photos of the set-up, although these are = not on the website yet. When I can get them posted, I will give the = link. NR ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C00568.3CB1D940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good evening, gentlemen;
 
   As promised, I have begun = to play with=20 my replication of the T T Brown style litharge / beeswax gravitator cell = using=20 the 50kV supply I recently acquired.  I am still dealing with = arc-over at=20 about 38 to 39 kV, but MAY be starting to see some signs of movement = during the=20 initial impulse of displacement current, with the gravitator disc = suspended from=20 a 50 cm long hair wire.  At that suspension length, the physical=20 displacement is only about 1 to 1.5 mm, with impulses of about 35 = kV. =20 Indeed, the movement SEEMS to be in the direction of the positive pole. = Must=20 repeat, repeat, repeat!  It also seems likely that I will have to = build a=20 larger litharge/ beeswax mass to withstand arc-over.  But it may be = the=20 start of replicating what Brown and Biefeld saw in 1926.
   I have taken some digital = photos of=20 the set-up, although these are not on the website yet.  When I can = get them=20 posted, I will give the link.
 
NR
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C00568.3CB1D940-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 13 18:11:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA04890; Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:11:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:11:01 -0700 Message-ID: <001301c0058c$5442d400$b03dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 21:09:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0056A.C2073B60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"tfwxQ2.0.EC1.bSqbv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16433 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Micro-O-U with LEDs This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0056A.C2073B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Second topic for the night. Brought to your attention on behalf of Dr. Sam Faile, my colleague. About 2 years ago, Dr. Faile and I were in the midst of the initial = examination of the anomalous transparency effect that has been reported = here previously. We found that dim monochromatic light from some colors = of LEDs seemed to enhance and promote the transparency effect. However, with time, Dr. Faile noticed another intriguing attribute to = some of the LED circuits - they appeared to be lasting longer than the = batteries should have allowed for, considering the milliamp-hour rating = and measured circuit current. SPF and I have entertained the = speculation that LEDs could sometimes act as very mild ZPE coherers or = sinks, and that small trickles of vacuum energy could maintain battery = charge for anomalously long times. I have personally examined some simple LED circuits with a 50MHZ = scope, and have seen indications of very high frequency white or pink = noise riding on top of the DC. Could this RF hash contribute to = possible ZPE coupling? At any rate, Dr. Faile has catalogued a number of LED / resistor / = capacitor / battery combinations that seem to be producing this very = mild form of "near O-U". For details, please consider contacting Sam = Faile at 4002 Sharon Park Ln. Apt. 13, Cincinnati, Ohio 45241 (513) = 563-4953 (evenings) Among uses for these circuits, apart from O-U research, we consider = long life nightlights or lanterns, panel indicators, or even night-time = fishing lures! A short write-up about these lamps can be seen at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/nlight.htm This is on Martin De Langes website; a wonderful place to look through = for alt-sci topics as well! NR ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0056A.C2073B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Second topic for the = night.
 
Brought to your attention on behalf of = Dr. Sam=20 Faile, my colleague.
 
About 2 years ago, Dr. Faile and I were = in the=20 midst of the initial examination of the anomalous transparency effect = that has=20 been reported here previously.  We found that dim monochromatic = light from=20 some colors of LEDs seemed to enhance and promote the transparency=20 effect.
   However, with time, Dr. = Faile noticed=20 another intriguing attribute to some of the LED circuits - they appeared = to be=20 lasting longer than the batteries should have allowed for, considering = the=20 milliamp-hour rating and measured circuit current.  SPF and I = have=20 entertained the speculation that LEDs could sometimes act as very = mild ZPE=20 coherers or sinks, and that small trickles of vacuum energy could = maintain=20 battery charge for anomalously long times.
   I have personally examined = some simple=20 LED circuits with a 50MHZ scope, and have seen indications of very high=20 frequency white or pink noise riding on top of the DC.  Could this = RF hash=20 contribute to possible ZPE coupling?
   At any rate, Dr. Faile has = catalogued=20 a number of LED / resistor / capacitor / battery combinations that seem = to be=20 producing this very mild form of "near O-U".  For details, please = consider=20 contacting Sam Faile at 4002 Sharon Park Ln.  Apt. 13, Cincinnati, = Ohio=20 45241  (513) 563-4953 (evenings)
   Among uses for these = circuits, apart=20 from O-U research, we consider long life nightlights or lanterns, panel=20 indicators, or even night-time fishing lures!  A short write-up = about these=20 lamps can be seen at:
 http:= //www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7919/nlight.htm
 
This is on Martin De Langes website; a = wonderful=20 place to look through for alt-sci topics as well!
 
NR
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0056A.C2073B60-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 13 22:40:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA26183; Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:40:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:40:12 -0700 Message-ID: <399783D4.E8C2A18E@flash.net> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:29:56 -0400 From: Khem Caigan Organization: http://home.flash.net/~khem/Simonomicon.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Micro-O-U with LEDs References: <001301c0058c$5442d400$b03dee3f@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"N9t-H2.0.vO6.wOubv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16434 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Nick Reiter wrote: > > SPF and I have entertained the > speculation that LEDs could sometimes act as very mild ZPE coherers or > sinks, and that small trickles of vacuum energy could maintain battery > charge for anomalously long times. > I have personally examined some simple LED circuits with a 50MHZ > scope, and have seen indications of very high frequency white or pink > noise riding on top of the DC. Could this RF hash contribute > to possible ZPE coupling? LEDs are diodes, right? Maybe the circuit they're plugged into is acting as an antenna of sorts, and they're 'rectifying' some RF noise from nearby stations? I was also wondering if anybody here was familiar with old radar capacitors made with uranium glass? All the Best, -Khem Caigan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 14 13:03:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27194; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:03:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:03:05 -0700 Message-ID: <399851EA.9DF6097D@csrlink.net> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 16:09:15 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7DF89566976725B4898F758C" Resent-Message-ID: <"wY-Ch.0.Ze6.u15cv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16435 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [Fwd: Fw: [Keelynet] Re: more on the Dingel water car] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7DF89566976725B4898F758C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Not that I am at all interested in Decker's thoughts on ANYTHING, but since some of you have been interested in the dingle water car and this seems to contain information on the HOW of that device that I hadn't seen posted before I am reluctantly posting this (It was forwarded to me). MJ --------------7DF89566976725B4898F758C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz (smtp4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.5]) by uplink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05884 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 02:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mclan (p5-max1.inv.ihug.co.nz [203.109.241.5]) by smtp4.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA31215 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 18:06:02 +1200 Message-ID: <007501c005b6$372c22c0$05f16dcb@mclan> From: "Paul and Gayleen Murdoch" To: "Michael Johnston" Subject: Fw: [Keelynet] Re: more on the Dingel water car Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 18:09:30 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Hi Michael I got this the other day looks interesting what do u reckon ??? Paul M ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 2:59 AM Subject: [Keelynet] Re: more on the Dingel water car Hi Folks: Jerry writes: << How it works <[the Dingel process]> According to him, his reactor uses electricity from a 12-volt car battery to transform saltwater or ordinary tap water with salt into deuterium oxide or heavy water, which is chiefly used as a coolant for nuclear reactors. Deuterium is actually a hydrogen isotope with twice the mass of ordinary hydrogen, and heavy water is produced when the hydrogen atoms in H2O are replaced with deuterium. "The electricity from the battery splits the water into its hydrogen and oxygen components, and this hydrogen can then be used to power the car engine. Normally it takes temperatures of about 5,400 degrees Fahrenheit to generate hydrogen from water, but here I am just using an ordinary 12-volt battery," he claimed. Just how this kind of chemical reaction is possible using an ordinary car battery is, of course, the secret behind Dingel's invention--and the kind of claim that leads people to dismiss him as a crackpot and charlatan. >> _____________________________ Just a speculation, but he gives a clue to the possible mechanism of his "reactor" in the statement about "5,400 degrees F" - if it was electrolysis, there is no such temperature increase - so simple electrolysis is likely not the means. More likely is using the 12V DC output from car battery to produce an arc discharge in the water, which will dissociate the water, and other compounds, and produce the elevated temperatures he is mentioning. See the following, which not only produces a fuel gas, but (independently verified) over unity in such reactors, as well: http://home1.gte.net/ibr/ir00020a.htm <<"PART 2: SANTILLI'S PLASMA-ARC-FLOW REACTORS, ... Following systematic research initiated in 1978 at Harvard University and conducted under various research contracts from the U. S. Department of Energy (contracts numbers ER-78-S-02-47420.A000, AS02-78ER04742, DE-ACO2-80ER10651, DE-ACO2-80ER-10651.A001, and DE-ACO2-80ER10651.A002), Dr. Santilli has concluded that one of the most efficient ways to synthesize new combustible gases in large volumes and in short periods of time, is via the use of an electric arc within specially selected liquids (see Refs. [1,2] at the end of this Part 2). The above conclusion has been confirmed by systematic experimentations and measurements recently conducted at Toups Technology Licensing (TTL), a public company in Largo, Florida (see the web site in Ref. [3]). Therefore, long term basic research and recent industrial developments have established that electric arcs within liquids are dramatically more efficient for the production of combustible gases than any other know process, such as chemical synthesis, electrolysis, or other means." >> _________________________________ The above link describes the process in detail, with supporting math, and experimental evidence. Also the energy content of the resulting fuel gas is found to be higher than that of natural gas, and the process is independently verified as being over unity - as to energy needed to produce it, vs energy output. There are also curious new properties of the resulting gases - strange magnetic properties, as the transformation has occurred in the very high magnetic field of the arc, which seems to have altered the nature of the atoms, or molecules. This "nuclear" alteration found in the Santilli process, could be what Dingel has deduced as being "deuterium". But lacking good funding, and sensitive equipment, he has not been able to determine the exact nature of the odd, "cold nuclear reactions". (On the other hand, if these high energy conditions in the plasma produce some nuclear changes, as Santilli shows, then perhaps Dingel's process is producing deuterium oxide?) (and cold nuclear reactions [transmutations] have been shown to occur routinely in biological systems, by Kervran, and others - and all bio systems do use electrolytic reactions, albiet at much lower temps, and without plasmas) Santilli's findings about strange new properties of the resulting matter, sounds similar to the effects of "Brown's Gas". _______________________________ << 2.2: MAIN FEATURES OF SANTILLI PLASMA-ARC-FLOW REACTORS The production of a combustible gas via an underwater arc is known since the past century (see Sect. 2.9 on patents). The main processes are the following. The arc first decomposes water molecules and the carbon electrodes into their atomic constituents, H, O, and C. When exposed to sufficiently large DC currents, these atoms are then ionized (i.e., stripped of of their electrons), resulting in a plasma in the immediate vicinity of the arc, which is composed of mostly naked h, O, C nuclei and electrons at about 7,000 degrees F. When exiting the plasma, nuclei immediately reacquire electrons from the electron rich surroundings (via electron capture), and cool down in the surrounding water. At this point various reactions take place, such as: the "burning back" of H and O into water; the formation of CO; the subsequent oxidation of CO into CO_2; and other processes. The gas produced by such a process bubble to the surface, where it can be collected in a variety of means, stored in conventional tanks, and used for automotive fuel, metal cutting, cooking fuel, electric generators, etc. The above process is notoriously inefficient for the production of combustible gases. In fact, said process is grossly under-unity, that is, only a small fraction of the original electric energy is converted into gas, which gas, therefore, has a high cost. Moreover, the process is known to produce a gas whose combustion exhausts contain more CO_2 than that in fossil fuel exhausts, thus being environmentally unacceptable. >> ____________________________________ It turns out that a simple alteration in the cell geometry, and mass transfer characteristics (the fluid flow through the reaction zone), result in the desired objectives, and the bonus of over unity: << In essence, the underwater arc is indeed efficient for the separation of water. However, most of H and O gases burn back to water, since they are created in the presence of the electric arc, thus decreasing dramatically the efficiency in the production of usable gases. Moreover, a large percentage of CO is oxidized into CO_2 also because CO and O remains in the presence of the electric arc. This results in an additional loss of efficiency because CO_2 is not combustible, while the resulting gas is environmentally unacceptable for the reason indicated in Sect. 1.1 (green house effect) bigger than that caused by gasoline. In different terms, the known large glow produced by an underwater arc is visible evidence of the inefficiency of the process, because the glow is evidence of burning usable H and O gases, oxidizing CO into CO_2 and other efficiency decreasing processes. Dr. Santilli has resolved these problems by forcing the liquid to be flown through the electric arc, hence the name of PlasmaArcFlowâ"¢ Reactor or Technology. In fact, the burning of H and O back to water is possible when the liquid surrounding the arc is stationary. On the contrary, when the liquid is forced to flow through the electric arc, the majority of the H and O gases are removed from the arc, thus preventing their "burning back" into water. Moreover, when the plasma is sufficiently rich in carbon, the affinity between C and O is notoriously bigger than that between H and O. Therefore, the carbon removes the available oxygen to form CO, thus resulting in a fully combustible mixture of H and CO, which has no carcinogenic substance in its exhausts, thus verifying Requirement 1 of Sect. 1.2. >> _____________________________ The process can also be used to recycle waste materials, and polluted water. Sincerely, DMBoss1021 --------------7DF89566976725B4898F758C-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 14 13:41:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA09562; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:40:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:40:45 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.38] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Micro-O-U with LEDs Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:40:10 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Aug 2000 20:40:10.0767 (UTC) FILETIME=[D70EB9F0:01C0062F] Resent-Message-ID: <"nWep82.0.JL2.Cb5cv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16436 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com LEDs... They act as a pump... voltage in light out... light in voltage out... Some of the BEAM robot guys use them as voltage generators much like a photo voltaic cell... Timothy... >From: Khem Caigan >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: Micro-O-U with LEDs >Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:29:56 -0400 > > > Nick Reiter wrote: > > > > > SPF and I have entertained the > > speculation that LEDs could sometimes act as very mild ZPE coherers or > > sinks, and that small trickles of vacuum energy could maintain battery > > charge for anomalously long times. > > I have personally examined some simple LED circuits with a 50MHZ > > scope, and have seen indications of very high frequency white or pink > > noise riding on top of the DC. Could this RF hash contribute > > to possible ZPE coupling? > > LEDs are diodes, right? Maybe the circuit they're plugged into is >acting as an antenna of sorts, and they're 'rectifying' some RF noise >from nearby stations? > > I was also wondering if anybody here was familiar with old radar >capacitors made with uranium glass? > >All the Best, > >-Khem Caigan > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 14 14:46:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA03173; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:43:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [205.229.142.209] From: "Jon Schweitzer" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 16:42:40 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Aug 2000 21:42:40.0929 (UTC) FILETIME=[92540910:01C00638] Resent-Message-ID: <"LeNib.0.4n.5W6cv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16437 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Scalar Current, Longitudinal Waves, Reciprocating Current I've been reading much about a form of electricity called by "scalar current", "longitudinal waves", or "reciprocating current". What is the easiest way to generate this sort of current? Also, I was reading about an experiment performed by Tesla which brought a strange idea to mind. Basically, Tesla ran a long wire from the output of a Tesla coil. He placed vacuum globes within the vicinity of the wire, which in turn produced light. It's my understanding that the number of globes which could be lit is only limited by the size of globes and area within the field produced by the wire. So with the wattage used to light a single bulb, hundreds could be lit. Has anyone thought of running a wire down the center of a tube, filling the tube with vacuum globes, and lining the inside of the tube with solar cells? Is there any reason why this shouldn't work to produce more than was originally put into the tesla coil? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 14 16:43:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA26793; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 16:42:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 16:42:52 -0700 Message-ID: <01a101c00649$06cdbe20$6ad4ddd1@x2001> From: "2001" To: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 16:40:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"z-N_j1.0.NY6.yF8cv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16438 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Carl Cella's WATER CAR Complete Pans for Carl Cella's Water Car: http://www.hasslberger.com/tecno/hydrogen.html and http://www.inlex.org/water/water.html Watch out! Small quantities of really foul language. This guy was a hard core rock star and probably couldn't help it. In regard to his device I think he is on the level. Bil From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 15 02:15:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA08424; Tue, 15 Aug 2000 02:14:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 02:14:50 -0700 Message-ID: <20000815091418.3678.qmail@web4405.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 02:14:18 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"8G9S9.0.T32.9eGcv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16439 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Transtrom Extractions for CSN/ Ohio Teslathon/fwd from tesla list Concerning the use of the term "cm" as inductance and capacitance as found in the turn of the century terminology found in Tesla's CSN is explained as follows; Electricity at High Pressures and Frequencies by H.L.Transtrom (1913) talks about the concept of isolated capacities and gives some highly unusual figures. I will quote from pg.157 which I happened to have marked.{this was a deja vu as formerly recorded from other discussion list entries that has been amplified in definition} The capacity of isolated spheres are found to vary as their radii. A sphere having a radius of 1 centimeter, hung up in space at an infinite distance from any other conductor;has unit electrostatic capacity;so the capacity of spheres in electrostatic units can be given directly from their radii in centimeters. Consequently, a sphere having a radius of 9 times 10 to the 11th power cm has a capacity of one farad, and a sphere of 900,000 cm. radius equals one microfarad; hence some authors write 1 microfarad as 900,000 cm of capacity. This usage of the term capacity is used in that terminology in Tesla's day is as evidenced in the Colorado Spring Notes. Of particular interest beyond the case examples found in Transtroms book is the entry dated June 7, 1899. This is 8 days before actual experimental work begins on June 15. Here Tesla is estimating the inductance of a single loop by a formula that gives only two parameters for input, and those values given in centimeters correspond to an ANSWER understood in those days readily by that definition. Now the usual method of determining inductance in the century beyond Tesla's time was Wheelers formula, undoobably also known at that time... But what we have here is a fairly long formula that tesla used to calculate this from knowing only the parameter of the radius A of the loop and the radius a of the {orthogonal relationship}of that wire in circumference relationship to pi. This is a fairly long formula using a summation of natural logs in typical mathematical reference to the smaller terms becoming infinitesimal. The CSN refers to the natural logarithm as log base(e){term}, I have shortened this to the modern calculus convention of ln{term} for the formula. Amazingly when Tesla first begins his experimentation, his secondary only consists of a conical 14 turns with average width of 130 ft/turn. >From there he rapidly deduces the extra coil effect: also properly considered as an autotransformer application. Tesla also refers to this inductance as L(s), which brings some confusion as what he is refering to in the single loop case must be L(p) or primary. In any case the formula he supplies for the primary is assumed to be widely used at the time as follows in CSN; with all {} as my comments also designated as interior parentheses. Also in Tesla's calculation he neglects the last term as negligible. Having noticed this let us rerturn to Transtrom's definitions: a man electrocuted in error of judgement after noting Teslas entry. June 7,1899 Approximate estimate of a primary turn to be used in experimental station. L(s){?}= 3.14{pi}[ 4A{ln (8A/a)-2)} + 2a{ln (8A/a)-5/4} - a^2/16A{2 ln(8A/a) + 19}] TRANSTROM'S Definition of UNIT VALUES Now concerning the use of inductance defined in terms of cm , Transtrom also goes into this on pg 80-82. The inductance of a circuit is sometimes expressed in centimeters, one of the cgs units or absolute units. By definition a circuit has a self induction of one henry when it generates a counter emf of one volt when the current is varied at a uniform rate of one ampere per second-- that is the circuit cuts 10^8 lines per second: so a circuit of one turn which has a flux of one Weber (10^8) when one ampere is flowing through it, has an inductance of one henry. One volt then represents a movement of a single conductor of 100,000 cm per second across a unit field (1 line per square cm) In this way the emf in volts can be given the dimension of length, namely 10^8 cm. As a circuit of one henry inductance generates a counter emf of 1,000,000,000 centimeters when a change of one ampere, or one tenth unit of current per second, it is plain that the counter emf would be ten times as high, or ten volts (1,000,000,000 cm) when the rate of current change per second is unity (or ten amps per second) Therefore one Henry of inductance is given the dimension of 1,000,000,000 cm. In a circuit of only one turn the inductance in centimeters can be directly obtained from the number of lines enclosed when a current of 10 amperes is flowing through the conductor. The Henry was once called the secohm, because a circuit having an inductance of one henry would only permit a rate of change of one ampere per second when the impressed current had an emf of one volt, and as the counter emf acted as one ohm resistance, we see from this that the inductance can be expresssed in ohms. The henry has also been called the quad, or quadrant because in the metric system a quadrant of the earth from the equator to the pole equals approximately 10^9 centimeters. Both terms mentioned above are now quite obsolete. Retracing these century old definitions further on around pg 10 (cgs measurement system) In order to handle scientific subjects intelligently, a system of units of measurements has been constructed, in which the unit of time is one second, the unit of length one centimeter, and the unit of weight one gramme { A cubic cm of water is also one gram, HDN} If one gramme is moved one cm in one second the force required to do this is one dyne. The work accomplished is one erg. The force of gravity is 981.45 centimeters per sec{note this may appear out of context as gravity expressed as acceleration is expressed as m/sec^2 HDN} Therefore the force required to oppose it in lifting one gramme, one centimeter high is 981.45 dynes. Thus the dyne can be expressed in weight or 1/981.45 gramme. { Aha! Henry is correct! In the English system the force unit is often misinterpreted as the mass unit. Because the acceleration of gravity is 32 ft /sec^2 and the actual mass unit one slug, one lb unit of force = mg= one slug*32 ft/sec^2= 1 lb. Thus in earths gravity 32 slugs=1 lb. Gramme is also the spelling used in the book which I am leaving for authenticicty HDN} If a magnetic pole repels or attracts another magnetic pole having the same number of lines of force issuing from it, with a force of one dyne when they are separated a distance of one centimeter, it is termed a unit magnet pole. In other words the attraction or pull is equal to 1/981.4 gram when they are 1 cm apart. The strength of the magnetic field of a unit magnet pole one cm away is one line of force per square cm, and is called the unit magnetic field. If we think of the lines of force of a unit magnet pole as issuing in all directions with an equal strength, or one line of force=12.5664 lines of force, which is called its magnetic flux. The magnetic field or flux, is expressed by the Greek letter phi. 12.5664 =4 times Pi(3.14) This figure 4*Pi times the radius squared= the surface of a sphere, as the distance of one cm is the radius of the unit magnet pole and the surface wold contain 4*pi*1^2 = 12.5664 sq cm, and as each of these squares would contain one line of force, the sum of all the squares would be 12.5664 lines of force. If the strength of the magnet is doubled the DENSITY is doubled the force in dynes is also doubled, for 4(pi)(rad)^2 X 2 lines =25.1328 lines = phi. If the phi is divided by 4 (pi)(rad)^2 the result = psi The absolute unit of current is 10 amperes,since it will produce a unit magnetic field of phi= 12.5664 lines around a conductor for every centimeter of its length, provided it is straight and the return conductor is very distant with the air as the medium surrounding it. Therefore the practical unit of current is .1 of the absolute unit which was found to be to large for convenience. {The unity employed with absolute units starts to make sense on this pg 41 entry concerning back emf effects on generation of electrical power HDN} The electromotive force depends on the RATE of cutting the lines of force. When a conductor is moved ACROSS a unit magnetic field ( which is described as containing in one line of force per square centimeter, psi=1, being uniform throughout) in one second, thereby cutting one line per second, there is generated a UNIT emf. If the conductor is moved twice as fast across the same field, the emf is doubled; but if the field is weakened the conductor must move faster to cut as many lines per second as before, and slower if the field is strengthened. {Note now this important entry} If unit emf is generated in the conductor and we find the find that its motion is opposed with a force of one dyne, the conductor would be carrying unit current, and its resistance according to Ohms law would also be unity, for E/I= R. Or 1 unit emf/1unit current=1, or one unit resistance. As unit emf is so exceedingly small, a PRACTICAL unit , the VOLT is used. It is equal to 100,000,000 times the THEORETICAL unit, or it may be expressed as the emf generated by cutting lines of force at a rate of 1,000,000 per second {The forms of} Ohms Law are all in PRACTICAL units. As the ampere is only .1 of unit current, and the volt is 100,000,000 {10^9} times the unit emf, the ohm= {10^9/.1 = 10^10, or 1 billion to one so unit resistance can be expressed in decimals as .0000000001 ohms. {HDN Note: Scientific Notation is not used in the book and I have done some paraphasing of contents for simplicity enclosed by brackets when the interjections are mine} Unit work is done in unit time when unit force is exerted against the motion of a conductor through a unit field at unit speed: thus producing a unit current at unit emf through unit resistance. The WORK done in this case is one ERG per second, or one dyne overcome through one centimeter. As the force in dynes opposing the movements of the conductor increases directly with every additional unit of current, and every additional unit of emf represents an increase in movement of one centimeter per second in a unit field, the work done must equal their product, As one volt represents a movement through a unit field of 100,000,000 centimeters in one second to cut 100,000,000 lines of force, and as one ampere would exert only one tenth of a dyne of force against the movement, the work done by one ampere flowing through a circuit at one volt would by 1/10 dyne overcome through 100,000,000 cm, or 10,000,000 ERGS per second. This product is termed one WATT. {HDN; We also know this as one joule per second established in the m/kg/sec system which exact name escapes me in this late entry.} ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 15 12:13:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19116; Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:12:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:12:17 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:11:35 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"CORAd1.0.Xg4.HOPcv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16440 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Update, Lafonte Research Group Hello all, Everything is going on schedule and a lot of people in the group have offered and given their talents and resources. It appears as though some are just along for the ride. Time will tell who wants to contribute and who wants something for nothing. The weak link at this time is my desperate need for an oscilloscope. It can be stand alone or PC based. I need a loaner very bad. Does anyone on the list have one they can loan out for testing the motor? This is the last piece of equipment I need to finish the testing phase. I have exhausted my money resources here. One last thing, I AM NOT PLAYING AROUND HERE, I TAKE THIS PROJECT VERY SERIOUSLY. If anyone in the group is along for just fun and games, you got the wrong group. Where overunity research is concerned, "THIS IS THE EYE OF THE STORM, I KID YOU NOT" Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 15 14:28:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA31146; Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:27:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:27:01 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000815162637.00961ec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 16:27:06 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Scalar Current, Longitudinal Waves, Reciprocating Current In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_20470127==_.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <"0NhFu2.0.Zc7.bMRcv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16441 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --=====================_20470127==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 04:42 PM 8/14/00 -0500, you wrote: >I've been reading much about a form of electricity called by "scalar >current", "longitudinal waves", or "reciprocating current". > >What is the easiest way to generate this sort of current? Got a CB Radio?...... --=====================_20470127==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 04:42 PM 8/14/00 -0500, you wrote:
I've been reading much about a form of electricity called by "scalar current", "longitudinal waves", or "reciprocating current".

What is the easiest way to generate this sort of current?
Got a CB Radio?......
 --=====================_20470127==_.ALT-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 15 17:41:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA18782; Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:40:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:40:26 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:40:19 -0400 Message-Id: <200008160040.UAA07935@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Scalar Current, Longitudinal Waves, Reciprocating Current Resent-Message-ID: <"GaBpN.0.Hb4.vBUcv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16442 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >I've been reading much about a form of electricity called by "scalar >current", "longitudinal waves", or "reciprocating current". > >What is the easiest way to generate this sort of current? > >Also, I was reading about an experiment performed by Tesla which brought a >strange idea to mind. Basically, Tesla ran a long wire from the output of a >Tesla coil. He placed vacuum globes within the vicinity of the wire, which >in turn produced light. It's my understanding that the number of globes >which could be lit is only limited by the size of globes and area within the >field produced by the wire. So with the wattage used to light a single >bulb, hundreds could be lit. > >Has anyone thought of running a wire down the center of a tube, filling the >tube with vacuum globes, and lining the inside of the tube with solar cells? > Is there any reason why this shouldn't work to produce more than was >originally put into the tesla coil? I've never heard of Tesla doing this, nor have I heard of anyone else doing a replication. It doesn't sound like a bad idea though. If the globes have a noble gas in them, and the insides of the globes are coated with a phospher, that wouldn't hurt either, I would think. Generating a voltage with solar cells is not very efficient however, and it may be that a general purpose lighting application may be the most useful thing that this does. Even still, that is a worthy pursuit in its own right. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 15 21:08:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA08334; Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:07:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:07:35 -0700 Message-ID: <399A1231.58AE62FA@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:01:53 -0500 From: Kyle Mcallister X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oCbZZ1.0.w12.7EXcv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16443 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: More gravity capacitor stuff? http://www.infoiway.com/html/ufo/UFO-36.SHTML Hmmm...looks like a composite of the document on Bill's amasci.com page. I don't know what to make of it... --Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 15 23:33:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA13451; Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:33:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:33:20 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 02:33:12 -0400 Message-Id: <200008160633.CAA07071@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Update, Lafonte Research Group Resent-Message-ID: <"AN7WX2.0._H3.kMZcv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16444 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Butch writes: >One last thing, I AM NOT PLAYING AROUND HERE, I TAKE THIS PROJECT VERY >SERIOUSLY. If anyone in the group is along for just fun and games, you got >the wrong group. Where overunity research is concerned, "THIS IS THE EYE OF >THE STORM, I KID YOU NOT" >Butch LaFonte Hi Butch, If you are the eye of the storm, then I suggest that you chill out and calm down. The eye is like that, you know. Where are you located, and have you checked around for a loaner locally? Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 16 00:50:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA30339; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:49:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:49:17 -0700 Message-ID: <554F5FFF12D4D311B04700508B5A9D2964D7F3@HARSTONMAIL> From: "Purvis, Duncan" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: [FG]: Update, Lafonte Research Group Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:50:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"uK1oi.0.sP7.uTacv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16445 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Butch You can download a digital oscilloscope freeware from the net, which uses your soundcard as a DAC card. They are pretty good, Maybe this would help till you get a proper analogue oscilloscope. Try this link. http://www.sonicspot.com/wavetools/wavetools.html http://oasis.fortunecity.com/paris/292/elecsoft.htm for Mac http://www.music.sc.edu/faculty&staff/bain/atmi98/examples/digoscil.html There are several others, just search the web for a few minutes Best wishes Duncan -----Original Message----- From: HLafonte@aol.com [mailto:HLafonte@aol.com] Sent: 15 August 2000 20:12 To: energy21@listbot.com; freenrg-l@eskimo.com; jlnlabs@egroups.com Subject: [FG]: Update, Lafonte Research Group Hello all, Everything is going on schedule and a lot of people in the group have offered and given their talents and resources. It appears as though some are just along for the ride. Time will tell who wants to contribute and who wants something for nothing. The weak link at this time is my desperate need for an oscilloscope. It can be stand alone or PC based. I need a loaner very bad. Does anyone on the list have one they can loan out for testing the motor? This is the last piece of equipment I need to finish the testing phase. I have exhausted my money resources here. One last thing, I AM NOT PLAYING AROUND HERE, I TAKE THIS PROJECT VERY SERIOUSLY. If anyone in the group is along for just fun and games, you got the wrong group. Where overunity research is concerned, "THIS IS THE EYE OF THE STORM, I KID YOU NOT" Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 16 02:04:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA13650; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 02:04:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 02:04:24 -0700 Message-ID: <399A57E8.D2E814D3@harti.com> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:59:20 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qaWnf.0.7L3.Oabcv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16446 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Meyl=B4s?= answer for Waser critique... via Automatique translation via babelfish.altavista.com Of: INTERNET:info@k meyl.de, INTERNET:info@k meyl.de on: " tungsten Marwik ", MARWIK Date: 15,08,00 15:01 Subject: Meyl´s scalar kit Dear Mr. Marwik, I belong to the laboratory team of Professor Meyl and would like to give a short statement you to this article of André Waser, since Professor Meyl is at present unfortunately very busy and can answer only approx. 20 % of his post office. As the first I must say the fact that I am glad over the fact that the people argue also critically with the subject and tries counterarguments to find (in addition also the experimentation set is to serve). I am disappointed of this article something nevertheless, since the reproduction of the attempts did not take place probably properly enough. Naturally the author no exact data were present, but it has them " optically " measured however nevertheless would have when attentive observation (that employees of attempts) some small details in the eye to sting. As there would be: On page 9 it is maintained that the ball electrodes would not have any influence on the resonant frequency. That is simply false! In the case of our experiments in the laboratory partial enormous shifts of the resonant frequency of the coil systems resulted. The difference is as large hangs of the size of the balls and their distance to the coil off (height). Why the author could not detect any modification can I only with the fact explain itself that with its structure the balls did not have an electrical contact to the system (e.g. cold soldered connection). Correct it is however that the form is relatively insignificant. Copper plates function naturally also. Tesla used e.g. also large Torroiden, which were built from many small hemispheres. We use the balls, because them cannot look simply better and do one at them pain, if they hang around besides in the laboratory (it also a little reminds of Tesla!) Additionally it applies between SELF-RESONANT FREQUENCY of the antenna array (individual system consisting of ouple coil to differentiate between deck and ball e.g. the Senders)und SYSTEM RESONANT FREQUENCY! The frequency of 3,9 mc/s, how it is specified in the article also, used at the demonstration, is the SYSTEM RESONANCE, related to the complete system from transmitter antenna arrangement and recipient antenna array with load. This frequency does not have to do anything with the periodic resonance of the individual coil arrangements! The system resonance stops itself according to the structure and is thereby not a manufacturing size / - characteristic, but a size of company. The system resonance depends on the distance between senders and recipients and the attached load. It depends therefore on the distance, since zw. sender and recipient a standing wave must form (180° phase shift zw. senders and recipients). One may not see now however the connection between wavelength and frequency with the constant of c (see potential eddy theory Meyl; therefore also a propagation speed deviating from it (system related!)). This difference between the resonant frequency of the coils and the system resonance, the operating frequency, would thus have had to be noticeable however clearly at the time of the execution of the attempt. This characteristic leads also to it the diagram in fig. 8 to consider page 8. Since it admits now is that the coils are not operated on their own resonant frequency, this effect cannot be explained in such a way. It is naturally clear with the handwound and on pasteboard stuck coils the fact that it not 100 %ig the same characteristics possesses, which is also not mandatory important however, how should be clear now, since they are not operated on their resonance. The more closely they however together are situated, the better become the efficiency. We use only print coils, how they are available also in the experimentation set, since they are naturally from the characteristics identical first of all better to manufacture and secondly. And despite the identical characteristics this effect can be shown! Furthermore a note to the alternate circuit diagram (fig. 7, page 7): The circuit is correct always, if one deduces oneself it from conventional circumstances and that also not practically examined. The hook with the thing is the capacity Ck, which is regarded here as the capacity between the two ball electrodes. In the classical sense one can imagine in such a way, if one considers oneself however the fact that this should be a capacitive hin-oder back conductor and one makes oneself the trouble the capacity to calculate or measure, one that the value amounts to some Femptofarad and so that for the used frequency is much too small in order a current flow through will let (high-pass filters). Additionally the value would have to be further reduced, if one draws the arrangement apart. If this like that is, the system resonance would have to shift upward (resonant circuit characteristics, smaller C - > higher frequency). If the author had made itself the trouble this to examine, to him to notice had had that he would have had to down-turn the food frequency of its generator, in order to maintain the transfer. Thus exactly opposite expectation! This runs again conformal for the presence of a standing wave between senders and recipients, whose wavelength must be increased. These are the experiences, which I made so far with the experiments in the laboratory. Perhaps one should refer this into the considerations. Always I find it good, if one sits down thereby to finally waste protects to us apart critically much time in the false direction. The author has itself to explain much trouble given the effects shown with conventional means, only unfortunately he at his own structure objectively or attentively enough did not operate. This led to the fact that he some, my opinion after, important, even if ignored only small things. If you possess the possibility of passing the author these explanations on you are to do that gladly. If he should find then always still conventional solutions, I ask to indicate therefore these to me. Regards Michael Andresen mailto:andresen@k meyl.de or mailto:andresen@endatech.de -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 16 11:28:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA05892; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:27:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:27:19 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:21:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Uban Message-Id: <200008161821.OAA15954@world.std.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortexC-L@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"YKwyf3.0.vR1.7qjcv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16447 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: FWD: ISSO San Francisco Torsion Field Conference All, Just received this notice, FYI... Jim --------------------------------------------- StarDrive - http://www.stardrive.org Greetings StarDrive List Members, The International Space Sciences Organization (ISSO), in conjunction with the Internet Science Education Project (ISEP), is currently holding a Torsion Field Conference at ISSO facilities in San Francisco. This topic has major significance for advanced, propellantless propulsion, as well as for novel forms of energy production. Be sure to read Jack Sarfatti's daily reports from the conference. Click on the URL below: http://www.stardrive.org/title.shtml Bye for now, Lensman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 16 13:54:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA10200; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:53:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:53:30 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [205.229.142.209] From: "Jon Schweitzer" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Scalar Current, Longitudinal Waves, Reciprocating Current Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:50:29 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Aug 2000 20:50:29.0969 (UTC) FILETIME=[9CF4F410:01C007C3] Resent-Message-ID: <"uVTI21.0.DV2.9zlcv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16448 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I think you misunderstood. So far I've been doing much reading and absorbing and I can't help but wonder why there are so many terms which mean the same thing in one conversation, but different in another. By "reciprocating current", "scalar current", and "longitudinal wave" I do NOT mean AC or DC or RF. The specific article which references "RC Current" is from "Extraordinary Science", Vol. 2, No. 1, 1990 by Warren York Maybe if I quote the work I was reading from... (oh, here's the link: http://www.sumeria.net/phys/scalar1.html ) "[stuff deleted]... Longitudinal waves, or RC, as Matt and I call it is put through a light bulb [ with no gases only a vacuum ]. Standard current gives off the glow of photons and heat can be felt from the lamp. When RC current is used the lamp is brighter, cool to the touch and has new noticeable characteristics besides the color of illumination. First,it has electrostatic characteristics where a copper mesh ribbon will be attracted to the source of the light; and secondly your hand can feel the pressure Aethric flow from the source. This pressure is omni-radial Aether flow or kin to gravity but not in the form of a monopole direction yet. This is the start of building what can be called a tractor-beam device. Thats one that can attract or repel matter as down a laser beam. Dr. Z, I am told, is working on just such a device. Nature produces a monopole flow of Aether all the time in matter and we call this gravity. Fig 1. [....more deleted material.....] REALIZATION OF A NEW FORM OF ENERGY GENERATED [ RC ] or Reciprocating Current In a recent understanding of scalar technology Matt and myself have come to a realization of a new form of energy which is produced and needed to drive this Aether pump to produce gravity. We are not the first to discover it but the first to go on record calling it RC [ Reciprocating Current ] Dr. King calls it Scalar Current and Dr. Nikola Tesla called it longitudinal waves. Now Tesla was known for AC [ Alternating Current ] and Westinghouse for DC [ Direct Current ]. Direct current is the current from a battery cell with negative to positive flow [ hole theory ] or positive to negative flow [ electron flow theory ]. We can thank Tesla for our using AC voltage today. He found that AC was more efficient and could travel longer distances without need of amplification. We have not done away with DC, for it is still needed in car batteries flashlights, and portable electronic equipment. We do not use DC through the house wiring because AC is the more efficient for this purpose. With RC, DC and AC will still be needed, but RC will have some advantages over AC or DC. RC voltage will travel on the surface of the conductor therefore giving characteristics of superconductivity. That is to say that resistance will not be of great importance with RC. It is known as cold electrons due to this ability and most incandescent lamps will almost never burn out due to very little heating up of the filament. You would not be able to use RC voltage on an electric stove or heating blanket or total electric heater. Another property of RC is electrostatic characteristics. RC voltage will travel down a conductor almost like microwave does in a waveguide. The E [ electric ] and B [ magnetic ] fields have traded positions with the B field being longitudinal now to the conductor. Fig 5A [23] This is where Tesla got the name longitudinal wave. Matt and I choose to use RC due to it fitting into the scheme of things along with AC and DC. No big changes will be needed to adapt RC to the now existing wiring. Most likely RC will be generated off the main line used for AC at the point of need. Likewise DC will be used in much the same way as far as application. I don't think you will find large RC power plants for this would be impractical and not needed. A Tesla coil will produce this RC energy or you may wish to build a coil similar to our test coil being used to map the fields and properties of RC current. Fig 1A,1B & 4A Unlike this basic construction given here of an RC generator our test coil has eight primaries of which only four are shown in Fig 4A & 1B and my scalar coil described in Jul/Aug/Sep issue as the secondary. It turns out that coil described in issue Jul/Aug/Sep 1989 Extradordinary Science, page 16 will generate scalar activity but is better used as an induction receiving coil for this RC energy. The coils are self tuned through K1 which is a adjustable induction vibrator. Fig 6A.[22] " >From: Charles Ford >Subject: Re: [FG]: Scalar Current, Longitudinal Waves, Reciprocating >Current >Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 16:41:02 -0500 >On a more serious note... >Scalar is simply what happens when opposing waves cancel or add this >canceling or adding causes standing waves and interference pasterns. > >Longitudinal waves are not detectable or provable in any way that I know of >at this time. Voltage (electrical pressure) also radiates and radiates >in a longitudinal manner. (is this what you mean?) > >and "reciprocating current" is "Alternating current" or AC (current that >goes back and fourth) > >Take a CB Radio and attach a long 50ohm cable to the antenna terminal. and >then attach the other end of the cable to a poorly matched antenna You >will have a source and example of all of the currents and waves that you >are referring to each time you press the key switch. > > > >At 04:42 PM 8/14/00 -0500, you wrote: >>I've been reading much about a form of electricity called by "scalar >>current", "longitudinal waves", or "reciprocating current". >> >>What is the easiest way to generate this sort of current? >> >> >> >>Also, I was reading about an experiment performed by Tesla which brought a >>strange idea to mind. Basically, Tesla ran a long wire from the output of >>a Tesla coil. He placed vacuum globes within the vicinity of the wire, >>which in turn produced light. It's my understanding that the number of >>globes which could be lit is only limited by the size of globes and area >>within the field produced by the wire. So with the wattage used to light >>a single bulb, hundreds could be lit. >> >>Has anyone thought of running a wire down the center of a tube, filling >>the tube with vacuum globes, and lining the inside of the tube with solar >>cells? Is there any reason why this shouldn't work to produce more than >>was originally put into the tesla coil? >> >> >>________________________________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 16 15:14:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA07325; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:13:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:13:34 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:12:47 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [FG]: More gravity capacitor stuff? X-Sender-Ip: 213.40.16.248 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uAIXP3.0.Io1.D8ncv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16449 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com It mentions PULSED high voltage in the documant recently brounght to our attention, but hasn't everyone been using straight HVDC? JB Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 16 15:49:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA25060; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:48:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Scalar Current, Longitudinal Waves, Reciprocating Current In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"JMqqB1.0.T76.sencv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16450 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Jon Schweitzer wrote: > I think you misunderstood. So far I've been doing much reading and > absorbing and I can't help but wonder why there are so many terms which mean > the same thing in one conversation, but different in another. > > By "reciprocating current", "scalar current", and "longitudinal wave" I do > NOT mean AC or DC or RF. The specific article which references "RC Current" > is from "Extraordinary Science", Vol. 2, No. 1, 1990 > by Warren York > I am aware of what is meant by "scalar current" and "longitudinal wave" but I haven't figured out yet how to produce them. Thomas E. Bearden gave a couple possibilities in some of his papers but I think less and less of him as a valid source. The John Rogers patents back around 1917 for underground radio transmissions supposedly produce scalar waves. Also, see the original Bohm and Aharonov paper on scalar potentials. Let me know what you come up with and I'll see if I can get any bright ideas on this subject! Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 16 16:09:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29350; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:08:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:08:47 -0700 Message-ID: <001a01bad814$2fca42c0$d95006d1@trpr.pa.cable.rcn.com> From: "Laab 666" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: More gravity capacitor stuff? Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 06:41:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"tAmPY1.0.LA7.-xncv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16451 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Perhaps when HV is pulsed it may make it more efficient ??? Think of AC, why is it more dangerousand conducive than DC? > It mentions PULSED high voltage in the documant recently brounght to our attention, but hasn't everyone been using straight HVDC? > > > JB From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 16 17:46:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00667; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:45:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:45:39 -0700 Message-ID: <20000817004507.29856.qmail@web4404.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:45:07 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: Scalar Current, Longitudinal Waves, Reciprocating Current To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"A4D8h1.0.BA.pMpcv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16452 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- Zack Widup wrote: > On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Jon Schweitzer wrote: > > > I think you misunderstood. So far I've been doing > much reading and > > absorbing and I can't help but wonder why there > are so many terms which mean > > the same thing in one conversation, but different > in another. > > > > By "reciprocating current", "scalar current", and > "longitudinal wave" I do > > NOT mean AC or DC or RF. The specific article > which references "RC Current" > > is from "Extraordinary Science", Vol. 2, No. 1, > 1990 > > by Warren York > > > > I am aware of what is meant by "scalar current" and > "longitudinal wave" > but I haven't figured out yet how to produce them. > > Thomas E. Bearden gave a couple possibilities in > some of his papers but I > think less and less of him as a valid source. > > The John Rogers patents back around 1917 for > underground radio > transmissions supposedly produce scalar waves. > > Also, see the original Bohm and Aharonov paper on > scalar potentials. > > Let me know what you come up with and I'll see if I > can get any bright > ideas on this subject! > > Zack > I have mentioned this many times but will do so again. The first thought on production of scalars is that we must use cancelling magnetic fields. So to do this coils are placed in space in bucking fashion. This does nothing but push the magnetic field out the open end of the dual coils placed face to face. So how do we make a mechanism that can cause this opposition? First the proof should be done by experiment for those in doubt. The problem is most folks dont have the tools to make that experiment. If we have two large induction coils we can put one in series resonance and the other in parallel resonance. If we put induction sensors in those magnetic fields, and simultaneously view those signals on simultaneous viewing of both channel 1 and channel 2 sweeps we find that one resonance has magnetic fields the exact opposite, or 180 out of phase with the other. The problem with making this observation is that given the same power input for both coils, in the case of parallel resonance the magnetic field will be vastly reduced because the input amperage is then reduced q squared from its series resonant condition. Thus to make the parallel resonant observation that channels sensitivity, or volts per div must be turned down to a much lower level to see that signature. The reason that each of these resonances produce fields in opposite direction when driven from the same input is simply understood by the definitions of resonance. A series resonance has the amperage (which produces the magnetic field) in PHASE with the impressed voltage. In a parallel resonance the resultant amperage is 180 OUT OF PHASE with the impressed voltage, which is what causes the highest possible impedance. So to produce a situation where the fields can instantaneously reverse direction, all that is necessary is to make a switch that changes the action of the coils from series resonant to parallel. This is something easier said than done unless one is aware of what I have named a binary resonant system. To do this two (hence one of the reasons for the term binary) series resonances schematically arranged 180 out of phase must be made. It does not matter how those coils are placed in space, in fact the process works better if those coils are placed in magnetic unison and tuned from that mutual inductance. Now the astounding thing that is discovered is that if a line or short is placed from the middle of each series resonance,between the L and C values: that action changes the condition of two coils in series resonance to both coils being in a single parallel resonance. If the voltage rise from each 180 phased series resonance is high enough that single midpoint path can have a miniscule arc gap, or open air connection on that midpoint path. This will cause the arc to form, but once it forms it will also instantly extinguish or quench itself because in the new condition of parallel resonance the amperage input is vastly reduced and the voltage rise on each side is also disabled. Once the arc is extinguished, the circuit then repeats its action as a dual series 180 phased resonance, where the voltage rise causes another arc to form, and then extinguish repeating the cycle. The net effect of all this is a rapidly reversing magnetic field. But that is not the entire story as each different sensor coil will also record a different rate of flip flops, and the only logical thing to say about that is that each sensor coil vibrates at its own resonant frequency, even though both are vibrated from the same fields in motion. This method is known as a single arc gap and a scope form of two different inductors being vibrated from the same magnetic field is shown on my homepage; http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/Homepage.html (Tesla Electric Co). It would be impossible for me to invert one of the sine waves and use it as the other channel for trickery: to do that would require 4 scope channels! If one further wishes to expose a substance to the electric potentials involved from such a process a double arc gap can be made with outside bars to inside bars, a load connected to them directly, and the outside bars connected to the midpoints, or unobvious potentials. Camera shots of those arc bars can produce anomalous effects of blue, green and other lines across the picture as interference effects of this so called scalar phenomenon. Three pictures of that including placing the sensor between the bars for scope form monitoring of the actual EM waves being induced are shown at driveway.com/ Teslafy must be typed in and a password gefeveqy. I am not happy with using that service for placing jpegs on the internet but they make the rules. By using a double gap system much higher BPS rates can be attained, one of those are also placed in the electronics file today. So I guess if I keep saying these things over and over, people may finally realize what I am talking about. Sincerely HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 16 17:48:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA02447; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:48:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:48:04 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:47:59 -0400 Message-Id: <200008170047.UAA10333@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: More gravity capacitor stuff? Resent-Message-ID: <"xdtii3.0.8c.3Ppcv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16453 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Perhaps when HV is pulsed it may make it more efficient ??? >Think of AC, why is it more dangerousand conducive than DC? > >> It mentions PULSED high voltage in the documant recently brounght to our >attention, but hasn't everyone been using straight HVDC? >> >> >> JB I must have missed something in the original post on this thread because, I don't know exactly what document James Batchelor is referring to, however, in my reading of pulsed HV devices, the circuitry that produces the most reliable effect often employs a flyback transformer which tranforms not only the DC into HV, but also transforms it into an AC waveform. Perhaps if we had a look at the actual circuit that you are referring to, it may be that this is the case, and you have missed it. I was a bit confused by it myself for a while until someone here explained it to me. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 16 18:05:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA07846; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 18:04:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 18:04:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:04:40 -0400 Message-Id: <200008170104.VAA17997@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Scalar Current, Longitudinal Waves, Reciprocating Current Resent-Message-ID: <"Bc6mz2.0.Qw1.jepcv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16454 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Harvey writes By using a double gap system >much higher BPS rates can be attained, one of those >are also placed in the electronics file today. So I >guess if I keep saying these things over and over, >people may finally realize what I am talking about. > >Sincerely HDN Believe it or not Harvey, that is exactly what it takes to get the info to filter through my mind, at least. If people explain things to me once, and I don't immediately pick it up, it literally takes a dozen different explanations, numerous examples, and attacks from a number of different perspectives for me to get it. I am beginning to make out many of the patterns though in what you and others are doing in this field, and see the logic, so your work is paying off. I am only saying this because I experienced the same kind of frustration while explaining the power of cavitation bubble collapse to even very intelligent people, only watch their eyes glaze over after a time. After six years however, I am finding more and more people who are actually conversant with the basic ideas, have seen enough hard evidence to accept them, and are willing to expand upon them. Keep up the good work! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 16 20:18:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA17928; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:16:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990118063934.00ba0cc0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:07:35 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Scalar Current, Longitudinal Waves, Reciprocating Current In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"trjr83.0.0O4.Varcv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16455 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Language is always very interesting and English is so easily misunderstood. For instance... I can stand up on a soap box all day about the significant differences between a theory and a hypothesis. People will agree and go on continuing to misuse these words. English also changes and evolves so older writings ma require translation to be properly understood. Here is my current understanding of the following terms. I may be in need of further study... Reciprocating current Reciprocating means "goes back and fourth"... this is AC Scalar Current (scalar waves) (scalar voltage) Amplitudes that are effected by other amplitudes in that they add or cancel according to the phase relationship. For example if you radiate waves at a reflector the reflected waves will interfere with the incoming waves. This causes a standing wave effect where at 1/2 wave intervals you will experience changes in amplitude from near zero to near twice the original amplitude. Longitudinal wave this has to do with wave polarization. there are three detentions of polarization. Vertical polarization are waves that move the media up and down. Horizontal polarization are waves that move the media left and right Longitudinal polarization are waves that move the media to and from. Also be aware that charge waves (radiated change in voltage) exist completely separate from magnetic waves and are always longitudinal. I can demonstrate all of the above with a CB radio some coils and a scope..... At 05:48 PM 8/16/00 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Jon Schweitzer wrote: > > > I think you misunderstood. So far I've been doing much reading and > > absorbing and I can't help but wonder why there are so many terms which > mean > > the same thing in one conversation, but different in another. > > > > By "reciprocating current", "scalar current", and "longitudinal wave" I do > > NOT mean AC or DC or RF. The specific article which references "RC > Current" > > is from "Extraordinary Science", Vol. 2, No. 1, 1990 > > by Warren York > > > >I am aware of what is meant by "scalar current" and "longitudinal wave" >but I haven't figured out yet how to produce them. > >Thomas E. Bearden gave a couple possibilities in some of his papers but I >think less and less of him as a valid source. > >The John Rogers patents back around 1917 for underground radio >transmissions supposedly produce scalar waves. > >Also, see the original Bohm and Aharonov paper on scalar potentials. > >Let me know what you come up with and I'll see if I can get any bright >ideas on this subject! > >Zack Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 16 21:43:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA19139; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:42:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:42:51 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:42:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Scalar Current, Longitudinal Waves, Reciprocating Current In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990118063934.00ba0cc0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cp2iM3.0.wg4.Arscv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16456 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Charles Ford wrote: > > Here is my current understanding of the following terms. > I may be in need of further study... > > Longitudinal wave > this has to do with wave polarization. there are three detentions of > polarization. > Vertical polarization are waves that move the media up and down. > Horizontal polarization are waves that move the media left and right > Longitudinal polarization are waves that move the media to and from. > The best example of a longitudinal wave is a sound wave in the air. It is a wave of compression or rarefaction of the medium (air). This compression/rarefaction travels longitudinally. > > Scalar Current (scalar waves) (scalar voltage) > Amplitudes that are effected by other amplitudes in that they add > or cancel according to the phase relationship. For example if you radiate > waves at a reflector the reflected waves will interfere with the incoming > waves. This causes a standing wave effect where at 1/2 wave intervals you > will experience changes in amplitude from near zero to near twice the > original amplitude. > My understanding of a scalar wave is that it is a longitudinal wave in the medium we have been calling the "aether". I believe that is what "space" is made of. A scalar wave is a compression/rarefaction of this medium (the aether, if you will, which also forms electric, magnetic and gravitational fields). The longitudinal scalar wave can exist independently of a transverse E-M wave. I have seen evidence (Bob Shannon's Barkhausen Effect scalar detector on Bill Beaty's website) that true scalar waves can exist which are not detectable by conventional E-M detectors, and vice-versa. Since conventional E-M waves in most cases contain perpendicular electric and magnetic fields which cannot be separated, a scalar generator could concentrate on either the electric field (as would be done with dipole or Yagi antennas) or magnetic field (as Harvey detailed earlier) components with the same effect. There should be several ways to generate scalar waves. The example mentioned above (radiating waves at a reflector) should theoretically produce them but in my experiments I wasn't able to completely eliminate the E-M wave. I was using various antennas feeding a parabolic dish or a plane reflector in the 3-cm band (10 GHz). One advantage to this frequency is that you can easily get many wavelengths away from the emitter in your own back yard to make measurements of the far field. (Using the "wave cancellation" method, I think the near field is always going to contain E-M components.) The disadvantage is that everything is so finnicky at 10 GHz due to the short wavelength that adjustments become critical. There are certain anomalies in electromagnetic fields passing through a plasma that make me think this is a possible way of generating scalar waves more easily. I will have to do some experiments with that ... Zack P.S. Whatever happened to Bob Shannon? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 16 23:02:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA11322; Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:02:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:02:03 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <9c.68dd377.26ccd9ae@aol.com> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 02:01:18 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZfKOh1.0.lm2.R_tcv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16457 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Opposite Pattern Programing http://members.a ol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm This is in reference to the LRG motor on our web page: LaFonte Research Group: I got to thinking last night. The electronic circuit will have to detect an error in opposite but equal balance before it can make an adjustment. I wonder how energy consuming this is? What do you think of this idea? What if you had the rotor at a steady speed and you recorded the scope pattern for one revolution. Then you programed the electronics to counter this pattern before it started. A software program could be written to record the test pattern, then output a counter pattern. It could sample from time to time for one or more revolutions to keep the pulse pattern correct. This would keep any opposite but unequal condition from ever taking place. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 17 06:54:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA20357; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 06:53:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 06:53:50 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [166.102.81.65] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: More gravity capacitor stuff? Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:53:17 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Aug 2000 13:53:18.0059 (UTC) FILETIME=[7F305BB0:01C00852] Resent-Message-ID: <"TkpaP1.0.tz4.kv-cv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16458 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At one point he repeats the line "If you were to use titanium dioxide dielectric compounds, it could conceivably run for centuries on a single charge!" and then "a conduit for pulsing high voltage", these two lines would seem to be contradictory to me if he had specified a pulsed hv power supply. I've read over this entry several times to glean what information I might find usable and while it mentions the usual electrostatic power sources, it does not "specifically" mention a pulsed supply. From the phrasing of several passages, however, I have to conclude a pulsed supply might be implied, but pulsing the charge has not had any dramatic effect on any of my caps. "A conduit for pulsing high voltage" could be interpreted to mean the device creates the pulse within its own operation. It has always been my belief the "Array" creates a "thrust" that is initiated when the cap is first charged. As the charge initially travels down the stack, it sets up a flow that is sustained by the continuing charge, much like the operation of a ramjet. As always I add the disclaimer - I could be wrong, and often am. I have yet to get an "Array" to work, and I've used different kinds of power supplies, impulsing schemes and array configurations. I would like to thank Kyle for bring this page to my attention as it gives me more avenues for speculation. BTW for those who didn't catch the URL: http://www.infoiway.com/html/ufo/UFO-36.SHTML >From: knuke@LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: More gravity capacitor stuff? >Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:47:59 -0400 > > >Perhaps when HV is pulsed it may make it more efficient ??? > >Think of AC, why is it more dangerousand conducive than DC? > > > >> It mentions PULSED high voltage in the documant recently brounght to >our > >attention, but hasn't everyone been using straight HVDC? > >> > >> > >> JB > >I must have missed something in the original post on this thread because, I >don't know exactly what document James Batchelor is referring to, however, >in my reading of pulsed HV devices, the circuitry that produces the most >reliable effect often employs a flyback transformer which tranforms not >only >the DC into HV, but also transforms it into an AC waveform. Perhaps if we >had a look at the actual circuit that you are referring to, it may be that >this is the case, and you have missed it. I was a bit confused by it >myself >for a while until someone here explained it to me. > >Knuke >Michael T. Huffman >Huffman Technology Company >1121 Dustin Drive >The Villages, Florida 32159 >(352)259-1276 >knuke@LCIA.COM >http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 17 07:58:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA14202; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 07:57:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 07:57:39 -0700 Message-ID: <20000817145703.13929.qmail@web4404.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 07:57:03 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: Scalar Current, Longitudinal Waves, Reciprocating Current To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"aRRF52.0.oT3.Zr_cv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16459 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- Zack Widup wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Charles Ford wrote: > > > > > Here is my current understanding of the following > terms. > > I may be in need of further study... > > > > Longitudinal wave > > this has to do with wave polarization. there are > three detentions of > > polarization. > > Vertical polarization are waves that move > the media up and down. > > Horizontal polarization are waves that > move the media left and right > > Longitudinal polarization are waves that > move the media to and from. > > > > The best example of a longitudinal wave is a sound > wave in the air. It is > a wave of compression or rarefaction of the medium > (air). This > compression/rarefaction travels longitudinally. > > > > > Scalar Current (scalar waves) (scalar voltage) > > Amplitudes that are effected by other > amplitudes in that they add > > or cancel according to the phase relationship. > For example if you radiate > > waves at a reflector the reflected waves will > interfere with the incoming > > waves. This causes a standing wave effect where > at 1/2 wave intervals you > > will experience changes in amplitude from near > zero to near twice the > > original amplitude. > > > > My understanding of a scalar wave is that it is a > longitudinal wave in the > medium we have been calling the "aether". I believe > that is what "space" > is made of. A scalar wave is a > compression/rarefaction of this medium > (the aether, if you will, which also forms electric, > magnetic and > gravitational fields). The longitudinal scalar wave > can exist > independently of a transverse E-M wave. Thanx Zack, Mike and Charles Ford for the cited Sumeria Article. I would like to add that I think that scalar waves can be imbedded in EM propagation. Also if Sam Garza is reading he will be happy to know the last bit of VHS taping should be finshed today after I go in and add a 5 minute section taping over irrevalent material. In this tape I show the signals recieved when the inductor is positioned 90 degrees to the correct orientation to recieve flux change. While the ordinary inductor position to recieve flux change consists of those loops facing the coil pole area, the inductor doesnt really recieve high frequency signals in the conventional position. No high freq spikes are seen at 2ms/sec sweep range used to see 60 hz signals, only a small oscillation riding on that wave. If we now turn the inductor 90 degrees to the normal orientation these spikes then appear on the reduced waveform. Turning up the sweep rate to see the actual vibration then shows the many traced forms which can also show in a series of opposing waveforms, but not always. (Turning up the sweep rate with the inductor in the conventional position does not show any high frequency effects at the higher sweep rates, only many straight sweeps above and below the zero potential x axis.) The double gap scenario does not guarantee that this scalar effect will always occur as in a single gap. In fact early on in research it was thought that either a magnetic effect, or a electric field oscillation effect found from the arc bars could be created but not both simultaneously. By creating a high BPS rate( arc bursts per second at the arc bars) both effects can be seen on both the arc bars AND the magnetic field, but it may be necessary to place the inductor in a unconventional position to attain that observation. I think that the separation of the individual arc gaps have a lot to do with whether scalar forms are seen or not as adjusting these gaps can then produce that effect with some coaxing. Thus essentially we are picking up flux change in the wrong dimension in these effects. The em coming from the arc bars is also polarized in three dimensions, instead of the conventional two dimensions, thus meaning that the loops of the sensor coil can face the length of the arc bars and still record signals, whereas the conventional postion of those loops to recieve signals would be at right angles. In a certain sense the arc bars themselves can represent a dual set of scalar antennaes. If we introduce the voltage at one end of the bar and it arcs at the other end and the path of current down the opposite bar to its load is opposite to the source current travel, this sort of represents a radio antenna broken in half, each producing an em wave of opposite polarities radiating outwards from the bars. However the same process occuring from one set of bars is also occuring in reverse or opposite polarity on the other set, so placing the sensing inductor in between these sets is like simultaneously making a positive scalar next to a negative. Perhaps that has an unlocking action. To further obfuscate the possibilities, I really havent noticed that it makes a great deal of difference WHERE the input source is attached to the bars, which means that theory lacks credance. Anyways I will send this tape to Mike at his postal address given as Florida and Sam who has been waiting patiently. The tape opens with a demo made in 92 of an air core copper magnetic motor since dismantled for these uses and explorations of the coils. If Zack and Charlie wish a copy write your postal address off line back to me, assuming everyone is in the USA. HDN I have seen > evidence (Bob > Shannon's Barkhausen Effect scalar detector on Bill > Beaty's website) that > true scalar waves can exist which are not detectable > by conventional E-M > detectors, and vice-versa. Again I suggest a method of looking where you wouldnt suspect the effect to occur, at right angles to the normal orientation. When you try to cancel a quantity the first place it wants to go is at right angles. > > Since conventional E-M waves in most cases contain > perpendicular electric > and magnetic fields which cannot be separated, a > scalar generator could > concentrate on either the electric field (as would > be done with dipole or > Yagi antennas) or magnetic field (as Harvey detailed > earlier) components > with the same effect. > > There should be several ways to generate scalar > waves. The example > mentioned above (radiating waves at a reflector) > should theoretically > produce them but in my experiments I wasn't able to > completely eliminate > the E-M wave. I was using various antennas feeding > a parabolic dish or a > plane reflector in the 3-cm band (10 GHz). The standing wave seems the most sensible explanation for observing seeming scalar signals. You are sending something out and the reflection comes back 180, but again that may cause the resultant to bleed off in the unused dimension, the longitudinal. > > One advantage to this frequency is that you can > easily get many > wavelengths away from the emitter in your own back > yard to make > measurements of the far field. (Using the "wave > cancellation" method, I > think the near field is always going to contain E-M > components.) The > disadvantage is that everything is so finnicky at 10 > GHz due to the short > wavelength that adjustments become critical. > > There are certain anomalies in electromagnetic > fields passing through a > plasma that make me think this is a possible way of > generating scalar > waves more easily. I will have to do some > experiments with that ... Yes neons are very good, I used one as a terminal ending connection to water in the Triple Capacity MWO Method Pg 5 http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/triple.html Pictures showing the newest MWO technique.(MAY,2000) This is now superceeded by a water gap method to produce similar high BPS. No web page work on that aspect has yet been made. The polar capacity method is also still the prefered method for producing electric field effects, while the water arc gap method may be the best for producing high freq magnetic field aspects. Additionally the use of a neon and argon tubes means has been noted to produce a decent BPS rate. Sincerely HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 17 11:22:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA06151; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:20:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000817123637.0095d6a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:15:28 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Scalar Current, Longitudinal Waves, Reciprocating Current In-Reply-To: <20000817145703.13929.qmail@web4404.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_18756369==_.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <"17Qa13.0.0W1.Ep2dv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16460 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --=====================_18756369==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Yes..... You can look at another wave effect here.... In a cable a standing wave will show a low point and a high point as the waves pass each other in the opposite direction. At a point where the voltage is low you will find that the current is high. (all of the energy is still present although you must change the way that you measure it) If you look an EM standing wave you will find your longitudinal wave peaking at the neer zero amplitude of the radio wave. This is like current in the aether. The media actually passes to and from (compression and rarefaction) As I currently understand things gravity is rarefaction of the aether. This makes the universe seem backwards where the real substance is space, and mater is now defined as the absence of space. This is only conjecture and speculation at this point but this also makes EM wave propagation consistent with waves in other media where the propagation rate increases as the media is compressed. There is still the principal of relativity to support it. if this is true then you could measure and generate gravity using a specialized antenna and we should be able to design an antenna to do so. I also believe that with this in mind we can design an antenna that will transmit and receive this type of wave. or am I just another kook At 07:57 AM 8/17/00 -0700, you wrote: <> >Thanx Zack, Mike and Charles Ford for the cited >Sumeria Article. I would like to add that I think that >scalar waves can be imbedded in EM propagation. Also >if Sam Garza is reading he will be happy to know the >last bit of VHS taping should be finshed today after >I go in and add a 5 minute section taping over >irrevalent material. In this tape I show the signals >recieved when the inductor is positioned 90 degrees to <> --=====================_18756369==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Yes.....

You can look at another wave effect here....   In a cable a standing wave will show a low point and a high point as the waves pass each other in the opposite direction.  At a point where the voltage is low you will find that the current is high.  (all of the energy is still present although you must change the way that you measure it)

If you look an EM standing wave you will find your longitudinal wave peaking at the neer  zero amplitude of the radio wave.  This is like current in the aether.  The media actually passes to and from (compression and rarefaction) 

As I currently understand things gravity is rarefaction of the aether.  This makes the universe seem backwards where the real substance is space,  and mater is now defined as the absence of space.  This is only conjecture and speculation at this point but this also makes EM wave propagation consistent with waves in other media where the propagation rate increases as the media is compressed.  There is still the principal of relativity to support it.

if this is true then you could measure and generate gravity using a specialized antenna and we should be able to design an antenna to do so.

I also believe that with this in mind we can design an antenna that will transmit and receive this type of wave.
 
or am I just another kook


At 07:57 AM 8/17/00 -0700, you wrote:
<<SNIP>>
Thanx Zack, Mike and Charles Ford for the cited
Sumeria Article. I would like to add that I think that
scalar waves can be imbedded in EM propagation. Also
if Sam Garza is reading he will be happy to know the
last bit of  VHS taping should be finshed today after
I go in and add a 5 minute section taping over
irrevalent material. In this tape I show the signals
recieved when the inductor is positioned 90 degrees to

<<HACK>>
--=====================_18756369==_.ALT-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 17 13:19:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA00856; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:19:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:19:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:18:54 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Cheap High Voltage? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"FI44V1.0.ED.oY4dv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16461 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > I've been pondering a Pseudo-VDG and the post "Cheap High Voltage" opens the > door for the question, If I were to take an ionizer, put it in a base, run a > wire from it up the tube into the metal sphere at the top, would this charge > the sphere in a manner like or similar to a regular VDG? Will it continue > to build a charge beyond the output of the ionizer? The ionizer is simply a DC power supply. You cannot increase its output voltage by connecting it to the inside of a hollow sphere. Why use a belt at all? http://www.amasci.com/emotor/vdgdesc.html#why The belt in the VDG is a capacitive dc voltage amplifier. You place a voltage between the lower roller and the lower (grounded) comb, and the belt will pull the opposite charges apart, creating a much higher voltage on the upper sphere. Another way to do the same thing: charge a parallel-plate capacitor to 500VDC, then pull the plates away from each other, then touch this wider capacitor to a metal sphere and to ground. Repeat the process many times, and the voltage on the metal sphere will rise far higher than 500VDC. The increase in voltage is proportional to the increase in capacitor plate spacing: if you start at 1mm spacing and increase it to 10mm, then the capacitor voltage will rise by a factor of 10. (Note that it takes work to pull the capacitor plates apart. This work is the "power supply" for the voltage amplifier.) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 17 14:14:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21206; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:13:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:13:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:13:07 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"bSOKU.0.8A5.jL5dv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16462 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: More gravcap msgs from cliff L. Cliff L. says that he built a grav-cap with soft beeswax as part of the dielectric in order to exclude air from the edges of the metal foil, then operated it within a vacuum chamber at hard vacuum, and the thrust was not reduced. Sounds like air-corona is not part of the effect. He also detects microwaves, and says that the grav-cap needs an initial "kick" of 800V w/20uS risetime to produce the effect. Guessing a 1uF capacitor, that would give 20-ohm series impedance and 40 amps peak pulsed current (if true, it would have to be supplied by a capacitor within the 800V power supply) No photos received yet. I've added the messages to the "cliff" link on http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 17 15:38:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05210; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 15:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 15:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:37:02 -0400 Message-Id: <200008172237.SAA04911@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: More gravcap msgs from cliff L. Resent-Message-ID: <"K9MnF3.0.GH1.ea6dv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16463 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > >Cliff L. says that he built a grav-cap with soft beeswax as part of the >dielectric in order to exclude air from the edges of the metal foil, then >operated it within a vacuum chamber at hard vacuum, and the thrust was not >reduced. Sounds like air-corona is not part of the effect. He also >detects microwaves, and says that the grav-cap needs an initial "kick" of >800V w/20uS risetime to produce the effect. Guessing a 1uF capacitor, >that would give 20-ohm series impedance and 40 amps peak pulsed current >(if true, it would have to be supplied by a capacitor within the 800V >power supply) Well, that blows my Coanda Effect theory right out of the water, but that's OK. I've got theories I haven't even thought of yet! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 17 16:46:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA01391; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:44:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:44:24 -0700 Message-ID: <009601bad8df$6d1eed80$d95006d1@trpr.pa.cable.rcn.com> From: "Lab 666" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: More gravity capacitor stuff? Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 06:56:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"GDFXi2.0.SL.LZ7dv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16464 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com My first impression was that the pulse mentioned on that "text" was an effect resulted from the capacitor it self. But most likely it's not if you read on carefully; "Each pulse causes a gravitic ripple, and these ripples link to create a wave form. The faster it is pulsed, and the higher the voltage, the better the wave form. The energy is pulsed into the positive end of the array and moves toward the negative end or ground or lower potential as does lightning. High voltage coils, as well as van der Graaff generators and Wimshurst machines produce energy suitable for charging the Cascade Generator. Propulsion is accomplished as energy cascades through the grid carrying a gravitational warp field with it, creating a gravitic "pressure" wave in the surrounding space. Higher voltage and pulse rate generates greater thrust. " Also, the origin of this text and the writer him self should be cosidered before we can come up with any conclusions based on it. I first saw this same report on a e-book about UFOs, instead of paying for the book I went web searching for "cascade generator" - as it is described on the book. I found at least 5 web pages containing it, including Bill's (that's how I ended up in this post) in case anyone is up for some detective's work by tracing the author, here's that book http://www.freak-lab.com/UFOWinBook.zip the E-Book http://www.freak-lab.com/UFOs.zip all chapters from e-book - cascade generator is at #36 just one question, where did that text "Electric Rocket" by Thomas F. Kennedy came from?? who sent it? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 17 17:07:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA09004; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:05:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:05:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:05:30 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"UgzKA.0.OC2.Gt7dv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16465 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: FWD: Russian Scientists demonstrate Magnetic-Gravity Effects Is this an old message? I don't remember seeing it before (below). ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Tony Craddock [SMTP:webmaster@cseti.org] > >Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 5:10 PM > >To: webmaster@cseti.org > >Subject: Russian Scientists demonstrate Magnetic-Gravity Effects > > > >In a paper published in June, 2000, V.V. Roschin and S.M. Godin, two > >Members of the Institute for High Temperatures, Russian Academy of > >Sciences, Moscow, > >describe some amazing magnetic-gravity effects they have achieved on > >the lab bench that parallel the breakthrough Anti-Gravity research > >results released this year by Brazilian physicist Fran de Aquino. The > >Russian device, loosely derived from the legendary Searl Generator, > >exhibited the following anomalous characteristics: The rotor of the > >converter self-accelerated. At 550 RPM, the weight of the device > >changed rapidly. The weight also depended on the power removed into > >the active load. The weight > >ultimately was reduced to 35% of the initial value. In a darkened > >room the converter rotor had a blue-pink luminescent coronic > >discharge. The device created a vertical magnetic wall around the > >installation, with sharp edge separation. There was an abnormal fall > >of temperature of 6-8 deg C in the lab, and also within the magnetic > >walls, which could be clearly felt by hand. To quote from the Paper: > >"All the results we obtained are extremely unusual and require some > >theoretical explanation." The complete > >paper (in English) can be downloaded from the CSETI Website. A > >Department of Energy spokesperson commented to CSETI: "we have not been > >able to find any fault with the theory or the experimental setup that > >Dr. De Aquino > >supplied nor have we found fault in Dr. Godin's experimental work in > >Moscow. Both experiments offer insight into controlling gravity and > >inertia through electromagnetics and should provide a good basis for > >development of improved experiments and theory." Onwards and upwards > >(literally!) Tony Craddock > >Regards Tony Craddock Web Administrator CSETI > >http://www.cseti.org From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 17 18:37:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA00699; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <399C9260.6EA84089@enter.net> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:33:21 -0400 From: David Rosignoli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: More gravcap msgs from cliff L. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X2QLg1.0.mA.NA9dv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16466 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Zonkers! I just read your updated file on Cliff L. Wow! 36lbs. of thrust, even inside a vacuum chamber! Shades of De Aquino's ELF device, but with better performance. At http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html , do the dates next to the links mean when that file was originally posted? I was surprised to see an ongoing correspondance for months. Well, I'm glad some more info. was posted on some details of the power supply arrangement. Bill, what ever happened to your GC? Did you have any success with it? So, we have: 800V/20us risetime 3.5kV at 2mA or less a rectified Tesla coil output 2330 plates soft beeswax for the dielectric (the layers were pressed together to remove air bubbles) 9 pole electrode modulating frequency that is the "12th overtone of a single metal plate" 36lbs. of thrust I can understand his frustration with the device. But considering the great results he's been getting, I don't understand why he would change to another device (his "weird inductor") (besides that a theory exists for it) unless the other device has also been demonstrated. I hope his friends continue with his efforts. William Beaty wrote: > Cliff L. says that he built a grav-cap with soft beeswax as part of the > dielectric in order to exclude air from the edges of the metal foil, then > operated it within a vacuum chamber at hard vacuum, and the thrust was not > reduced. Sounds like air-corona is not part of the effect. He also > detects microwaves, and says that the grav-cap needs an initial "kick" of > 800V w/20uS risetime to produce the effect. Guessing a 1uF capacitor, > that would give 20-ohm series impedance and 40 amps peak pulsed current > (if true, it would have to be supplied by a capacitor within the 800V > power supply) > > No photos received yet. > > I've added the messages to the "cliff" link on > http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 17 20:16:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA02254; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:15:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:15:10 -0700 Message-ID: <020c01c008c2$2ec4c920$19d4ddd1@x2001> From: "2001" To: Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:11:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"kHOnI3.0.3Z.-eAdv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16467 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: H/O CELL Has anyone built the lead acid battery desulfator circuit, also used (so I've heard) for increasing the H/O produced in a hydrolysis cell? You simply wire the two terminals to the battery; approx. $20 (US) worth of parts. LINK: http://www.humboldt1.com/~michael.welch/desulfator.pdf Bil From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 17 20:32:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA07337; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:31:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:31:35 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990119071623.009b0a70@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:22:31 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: More gravcap msgs from cliff L. In-Reply-To: <399C9260.6EA84089@enter.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"UmTSb.0.Vo1.MuAdv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16468 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Another possibility for this effect.... During the charging phase the atoms in the dielectric may respond in a rather interesting way. It is possible that the electrical orbits are modified into a stressed elliptical shape that may cause them to have more centripetal force on one side of the orbit causing an inertial unbalance. Just a thought At 09:33 PM 8/17/00 -0400, you wrote: >Zonkers! I just read your updated file on Cliff L. Wow! 36lbs. of thrust, even >inside a vacuum chamber! Shades of De Aquino's ELF device, but with better >performance. At http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html , do the dates next to >the links mean when that file was originally posted? I was surprised to see an >ongoing correspondance for months. Well, I'm glad some more info. was >posted on >some details of the power supply arrangement. > >Bill, what ever happened to your GC? Did you have any success with it? >So, we have: >800V/20us risetime >3.5kV at 2mA or less >a rectified Tesla coil output >2330 plates >soft beeswax for the dielectric >(the layers were pressed together to remove air bubbles) >9 pole electrode >modulating frequency that is the "12th overtone of a single metal plate" >36lbs. of thrust > >I can understand his frustration with the device. But considering the great >results he's been getting, I don't understand why he would change to another >device (his "weird inductor") (besides that a theory exists for it) unless the >other device has also been demonstrated. I hope his friends continue with his >efforts. > > >William Beaty wrote: > > > Cliff L. says that he built a grav-cap with soft beeswax as part of the > > dielectric in order to exclude air from the edges of the metal foil, then > > operated it within a vacuum chamber at hard vacuum, and the thrust was not > > reduced. Sounds like air-corona is not part of the effect. He also > > detects microwaves, and says that the grav-cap needs an initial "kick" of > > 800V w/20uS risetime to produce the effect. Guessing a 1uF capacitor, > > that would give 20-ohm series impedance and 40 amps peak pulsed current > > (if true, it would have to be supplied by a capacitor within the 800V > > power supply) > > > > No photos received yet. > > > > I've added the messages to the "cliff" link on > > http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html > > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 17 21:03:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA18934; Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:02:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:02:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:02:20 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: More gravity capacitor stuff? In-Reply-To: <009601bad8df$6d1eed80$d95006d1@trpr.pa.cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"dVFOr2.0.ld4.GLBdv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16469 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 2 Jan 1996, Lab 666 wrote: > just one question, where did that text "Electric Rocket" by Thomas F. > Kennedy came from?? who sent it? A friend in Seattle gave me a copy around ?1992?, hoping that I might try building it. It was a many-generations photocopy. I don't know where he got it himself. Maybe from one of those mail-order places like Rex Research or BSRF. Until receiving messages from people claiming success, I assumed that these capacitor articles were most probably like false rumors which grow and mutate as they are passed along, and probably started out as BS from dishonest people hoping to trick others into testing their unconventional theories. Then I carried on the same tradition by posting the plans on my website in hopes that somebody else with more ambition would build it and report the results! :) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 18 00:16:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA28704; Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:13:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:13:41 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: H/O CELL Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 07:14:12 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <39a3e1fd.361892764@mail.midiowa.net> References: <020c01c008c2$2ec4c920$19d4ddd1@x2001> In-Reply-To: <020c01c008c2$2ec4c920$19d4ddd1@x2001> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA28677 Resent-Message-ID: <"eV9lh2.0.O07.a8Edv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16470 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:11:56 -0700, "2001" wrote: >Has anyone built the lead acid battery desulfator >circuit, also used (so I've heard) for increasing the >H/O produced in a hydrolysis cell? You simply wire >the two terminals to the battery; approx. $20 (US) >worth of parts. >LINK: >http://www.humboldt1.com/~michael.welch/desulfator.pdf I haven't built one, but I bought 2 of them for use with a 12-volt, 440 AH system and a 24-volt, 700 AH system. They seem to work. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 18 01:31:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA12267; Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:30:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:30:53 -0700 Message-ID: <399CF1C9.2C7E8636@flash.net> Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 04:20:25 -0400 From: Khem Caigan Organization: http://home.flash.net/~khem/Simonomicon.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Scalar Current, Longitudinal Waves, Reciprocating Current References: <4.2.0.58.20000817123637.0095d6a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H9G-Z.0.a_2.yGFdv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16471 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Charles Ford wrote: > > Yes..... > > You can look at another wave effect here.... In a cable a standing > wave will show a low point and a high point as the waves pass each > other in the opposite direction. At a point where the voltage is low > you will find that the current is high. (all of the energy is still > present although you must change the way that you measure it) Here's a link to an old experiment in which you can see an EM standing wave: http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/mk95939.jpg All the Best, -Khem Caigan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 18 11:20:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA29603; Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:17:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:17:13 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000818131413.0095a8b0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:17:27 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Scalar Current, Longitudinal Waves, Reciprocating Current In-Reply-To: <399CF1C9.2C7E8636@flash.net> References: <4.2.0.58.20000817123637.0095d6a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_6360548==_.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <"s8KqE2.0.QE7.fsNdv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16472 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --=====================_6360548==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cool. Do you know what the viewing mechanisms is? I think maybe glowing filiments At 04:20 AM 8/18/00 -0400, you wrote: >Charles Ford wrote: > > > > Yes..... > > > > You can look at another wave effect here.... In a cable a standing > > wave will show a low point and a high point as the waves pass each > > other in the opposite direction. At a point where the voltage is low > > you will find that the current is high. (all of the energy is still > > present although you must change the way that you measure it) > > > Here's a link to an old experiment in which you can see an EM >standing wave: http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/mk95939.jpg > >All the Best, > >-Khem Caigan > --=====================_6360548==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Cool.   Do you know what the viewing mechanisms is?
I think maybe glowing filiments

At 04:20 AM 8/18/00 -0400, you wrote:

Charles Ford wrote:
>
> Yes.....
>
> You can look at another wave effect here....  In a cable a standing
> wave will show a low point and a high point as the waves pass each
> other in the opposite direction.  At a point where the voltage is low
> you will find that the current is high.  (all of the energy is still
> present although you must change the way that you measure it)
<SNIPS>

 Here's a link to an old experiment in which you can see an EM
standing wave: http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/mk95939.jpg

All the Best,

-Khem Caigan
<khem@flash.net>
--=====================_6360548==_.ALT-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 18 12:18:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA22165; Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:17:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:17:33 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:16:51 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"Iglev.0.AQ5.DlOdv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16473 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Web site to view motor pictures LaFonte Research Group http://hometown.aol.com/lafonte11648/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 19 00:08:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA25250; Sat, 19 Aug 2000 00:07:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 00:07:42 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c009ac$df7cd920$1925a6d4@skynet.be> From: "Jean-Jacques Lauture" To: "William Beaty" , References: Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 09:12:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"trr5H2.0.IA6.z8Zdv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16474 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: FWD: Scientists demonstrate Magnetic-Gravity Effects William, Tony, I tried to find the paper on Cseti web site but I cannot find it. (I found other things ..) Could any of you tell me where to find the Russian paper and the e-mail or department of this Russian researchers. Is it in the Univ. of State Lomonosov? Thanks to tell me... JJL > > >From: Tony Craddock [SMTP:webmaster@cseti.org] > > >Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 5:10 PM > > >To: webmaster@cseti.org > > >Subject: Russian Scientists demonstrate Magnetic-Gravity Effects > > > > > >In a paper published in June, 2000, V.V. Roschin and S.M. Godin, two > > >Members of the Institute for High Temperatures, Russian Academy of > > >Sciences, Moscow, > > >describe some amazing magnetic-gravity effects they have achieved on > > >the lab bench that parallel the breakthrough Anti-Gravity research > > >results released this year by Brazilian physicist Fran de Aquino. The > > >Russian device, loosely derived from the legendary Searl Generator, > > >exhibited the following anomalous characteristics: The rotor of the > > >converter self-accelerated. At 550 RPM, the weight of the device > > >changed rapidly. The weight also depended on the power removed into > > >the active load. The weight > > >ultimately was reduced to 35% of the initial value. In a darkened > > >room the converter rotor had a blue-pink luminescent coronic > > >discharge. The device created a vertical magnetic wall around the > > >installation, with sharp edge separation. There was an abnormal fall > > >of temperature of 6-8 deg C in the lab, and also within the magnetic > > >walls, which could be clearly felt by hand. To quote from the Paper: > > >"All the results we obtained are extremely unusual and require some > > >theoretical explanation." The complete > > >paper (in English) can be downloaded from the CSETI Website. A > > >Department of Energy spokesperson commented to CSETI: "we have not been > > >able to find any fault with the theory or the experimental setup that > > >Dr. De Aquino > > >supplied nor have we found fault in Dr. Godin's experimental work in > > >Moscow. Both experiments offer insight into controlling gravity and > > >inertia through electromagnetics and should provide a good basis for > > >development of improved experiments and theory." Onwards and upwards > > >(literally!) Tony Craddock > > >Regards Tony Craddock Web Administrator CSETI > > >http://www.cseti.org > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 19 00:22:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA00897; Sat, 19 Aug 2000 00:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 00:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <399E3284.D703F1D2@flash.net> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 03:08:52 -0400 From: Khem Caigan Organization: http://home.flash.net/~khem/Simonomicon.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FREE ENERGY-L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"I74XI1.0.qD.LMZdv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16475 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Rydberg Matter - say what? Hi! I was wondering if any of y'all could explain just what 'Rydberg Matter' is when it's at home. I gather it's some kind of dense plasma, but that's about all she wrote as far as my searches on the 'Net have gone. TIA, -Khem Caigan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 19 04:51:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA05050; Sat, 19 Aug 2000 04:50:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 04:50:53 -0700 Message-ID: <399E7482.1CDD3FDB@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 14:50:26 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: FWD: Scientists demonstrate Magnetic-Gravity Effects References: <000801c009ac$df7cd920$1925a6d4@skynet.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7b0FV2.0.pE1.TIddv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16476 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com S.M.Godin, apparently one author of the "paper" may be Sergei M. Godin who is on discussion greenglow@egroups.com, may give some answers. But I have feeling that he is unaware of this "compilation" of the news appeared on CSETI site. Jean-Jacques Lauture wrote: > > William, Tony, > > I tried to find the paper on Cseti web site but I cannot find it. (I found > other things ..) Could any of you tell me where to find the Russian paper > and the e-mail or department of this Russian researchers. Is it in the Univ. > of State Lomonosov? Thanks to tell me... > JJL > > > > >From: Tony Craddock [SMTP:webmaster@cseti.org] > > > >Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 5:10 PM > > > >To: webmaster@cseti.org > > > >Subject: Russian Scientists demonstrate Magnetic-Gravity Effects > > > > > > > >In a paper published in June, 2000, V.V. Roschin and S.M. Godin, two > > > >Members of the Institute for High Temperatures, Russian Academy of > > > >Sciences, Moscow, > > > >describe some amazing magnetic-gravity effects they have achieved on > > > >the lab bench that parallel the breakthrough Anti-Gravity research [snip] Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 19 06:55:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA29682; Sat, 19 Aug 2000 06:55:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 06:55:09 -0700 Message-ID: <399E90BF.ED45A71B@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 16:50:55 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: FWD: Scientists demonstrate Magnetic-Gravity Effects References: <000801c009ac$df7cd920$1925a6d4@skynet.be> <399E7482.1CDD3FDB@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"B5Z8D1.0.gF7.y6fdv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16477 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com See Sergei Godin's reply to my posting at "antigrav" discussion below (** hamdi ucar wrote: > > Hi Sergei, > > Is the news appeared on cseti site belong to you? > > Could you confirm it? > > http://www.cseti.org/position/addition/SEG.htm Yes, I confirm it. They have placed this information without my permission, but now this question has been regulated. Regards, Sergei **) hamdi ucar wrote: > > S.M.Godin, apparently one author of the "paper" may be Sergei M. Godin who is > on discussion greenglow@egroups.com, may give some answers. But I have feeling > that he is unaware of this "compilation" of the news appeared on CSETI site. > > Jean-Jacques Lauture wrote: > > > > William, Tony, > > > > I tried to find the paper on Cseti web site but I cannot find it. (I found > > other things ..) Could any of you tell me where to find the Russian paper > > and the e-mail or department of this Russian researchers. Is it in the Univ. > > of State Lomonosov? Thanks to tell me... > > JJL > > Regards, hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 19 13:31:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20753; Sat, 19 Aug 2000 13:30:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 13:30:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000819133134.2e5f44d6@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 13:31:34 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron In-Reply-To: <399E7482.1CDD3FDB@verisoft.com.tr> References: <000801c009ac$df7cd920$1925a6d4@skynet.be> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Pmyn43.0.245.evkdv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16478 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Ionizer module Hi Bill and all, I bought one of the ionizer modules you mentioned, as from All Electronics. The output seems to be negative unfiltered DC, from 7 to 10 kV. The ion wind is easily felt from the 4 needle points. It isn't obvious to me which of the "line wires" is the HV return, for applications where it it desired to know, such as capacitor charging. (There are only the 2 input and the single HV out wire.) It is solid state, and an ohmmeter does not show a reading between any wires, even with a jury rigged one with a 12 volt supply to foward bias any HV diodes. The return may be a combination of both, not just the white "neutral". Someone with an HV scope probe may be able to tell. The supply current is only about 8 mA, with 3 spikes on each side of the input AC waveform. The output current I estimate to be < 100uA. -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 19 16:11:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA23765; Sat, 19 Aug 2000 16:10:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 16:10:58 -0700 Message-ID: <399F1584.3DD7E06B@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:17:24 -0400 From: Michael Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l1Ugf1.0.Ap5.1Gndv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16479 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: New Posts Hi All, I have tonight to try to give you all something that I find rather interesting. If I am right it could change some things. If I am wrong then I will just be wasting your time. I will try to be as brief as possible so as not to waste too much disk space. I have done preliminary stuff with it and it does work. "Free Energy" anyone? MJ P.S.: Be back in a few minutes. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 19 17:50:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA14680; Sat, 19 Aug 2000 17:49:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 17:49:36 -0700 Message-ID: <002401bfda51$301a4f60$ec914218@gvso1.bc.wave.home.com> From: "dallas" To: References: <398C5FB5.C533998@harti.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:48:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"6XhyK1.0.Db3.Wiodv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16480 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: TAKE ME OFF YOUR LIST PLEASE ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Hartmann" To: "Free Energy" ; ; "Newman-L Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 11:40 AM Subject: [FG]: Scalar circuit from Graham Gunderson > From: Graham Gunderson > Date: Sat Aug 5, 2000 0:23am > Subject: non e-m barium excitation > > > Hi, > > For anyone interested, I'll post one way to excite a barium magnet that > doesn't completely rely on conventional EM. > > Using conventional EM alone will get you next to nowhere, as theorist > Tom Bearden makes obvious in his papers about Floyd Sweet's use of > barium ferrite magnets. > > > I'll provide a description and schematic of a method which is very > simple, albeit rather weak in effect. This circuit is vaguely related to > other things in my work, so I ask you, my reader to please respect the > copyright I place on the material. If you absolutely must reproduce this > information without my consent, please at least do it with this unedited > article included. > > The circuit I share here centers around a dual-voltage AC isolation > transformer. This transformer (about 4" on its longest side) has a > standard iron E-I core, and two wound sections separated by a section of > plastic that insulates the two winding sections from each other. > > Each winding section is wound bifilar-style, with two parallel > conductors. This is so you can use these conductors in series (240VAC) > or paralell (120VAC), to match or change voltages. There is 5 kV of > isolation between the two main coil sections, at least, as rated. > > The transformer is also a slight step up (will take 115 volts to 125 or > vice versa) since the winding resistance must be compensated for while > the thing is under load, trying to have an output near 120 VAC. (Or > double the numbers for 240) > > The section that is slightly shorter (slight-step-up primary) is > connected so that the two parallel wires on the outside of the winding > bulk connect to hot and neutral of 120 VAC. The two wires which exit the > inner part of the winding bulk, connect to a large AC oil capacitor of > 24 uF capacity. > > This, notice is a bifilar arrangement since the 120 volt "hot" feed to > the primary must travel clockwise (here) from the outside to the center > of the winding bulk, "across" a 24 uF capacitor, and back > counter-clockwise from inside to outside, returning to the mains. The > inductive effects are well cancelled, but the primary does heat some > because of the resistance of its windings, carrying current "through" > the 24 uF cap. Placing a magnet near the transformer coil will not cause > any vibration like a regular transformer will. > > The isolated side of the transformer has its two bifilar wires as well, > for a total of four connections. Only one connection is used, from > either conductor, at the outside (not the inside!) of the winding bulk > there. A spade terminal there feeds a 2' wire that is pinned below the > weight of a large BaFe magnet. It is best to "aim" the wire in > diagonally from a corner in the case of blocks, or with rings, from the > outside, with the wire "aiming" toward the edge of the inner diameter, > as if you were filling a hollow donut with water and wished for it to > swirl around. > > When I set this up I unplugged it after 30 seconds and lifted the > magnet, sure enough (and to my surprise this time) there was a bit of > oscillation in it, it had some of the activity I mention that feels like > a faint and unstoppable vibration, like the ground would rumble from a > train, which lasted for about 3 minutes or so before it began to fade. > > The strength of the oscillation is proportional to the size of the AC > oil capacitor, which sets the AC current through the bifilar primary. > The secondary must be left ungrounded. > > Measuring with a VOM indicated 7 millivolts of AC across the coil > terminals of the secondary (though only one of the four is used). There > is negligible induction. Less than 3 VAC was measured between any > terminal on the isolated winding bulk and ground. So there is a small > amount of AC, just a residual, present in the secondary. About as much > as you might see on a nearby metal plate. > > However, when the digital VOM I was using was connected with only *one* > probe to either wire on the outside of the secondary coil, the display > would konk out, or just go over range as if I had connected it to > something in excess of 1,000 volts. > > Touching the "hot" AC connections or the capacitor connections would not > do this. I got a step up (480V) transformer out and touched its output > with one probe - still no overload. The little bifilar transformer > somehow was zapping the heck out of my meter, containing only at most 3 > VAC against ground. It's completely electrically isolated. The > resistance of the VOM is about 20 M-ohm. > > The "overload" would happen only on the outside of the secondary. > Connected to the inside, it would not appear, and if any terminal on the > secondary was grounded it went away too. This was curious, since a > direct one terminal connection to 120V and higher didn't do the same > thing. Only a connection to a terminal with no DC or AC potential > present would hack the meter! (I verified the absence of conventional > juice with a white LED and a neon bulb in a dark room - no light) > > Touching the output lead (from the outside of the secondary) while > touching ground gives no zap or feeling of electricity. However, at the > output end there can be a strong sensation of electrical "buzzing", like > you get on your arm hair if you stand too close to something carrying > more than a few kV of HVAC. Pipe this "buzzing" into a Ba magnet and it > will buzz, too. > > I can share this experiment because it is not part of what I use and the > level of excitation is low. Also I don't know if it would work with > other transformers with different winding lengths, etc. But it is one > example of how a Ba-ferrite magnet can be caused to excite (though > slightly), with an invisible kind of hidden "energy" that carries no > voltage, but zaps meters and disappears if it is grounded. > > > > bifilar pri 24uF 330V . > 120 hot *----wwwwwwww----||---+ > 120 ntr *----wwwwwwww---------+ > ======== iron core > nc--mmmmmmmm--nc > coil +--mmmmmmmm--nc > outside | coil inside end . > end | (near core) > \ > +---------- > | BaFe | > | | > ---------- > > > Experimental Scalar Energizer > Copyright 2000 Graham Gunderson . > (please do not distribute w/o consent) . > > > Graham > > > PS the word "energy" above is used in the sense of Bearden's expositions > - as an ordering in the ZPE flux that polarizes or structures it > somehow. "energy" was not being used in the accepted sense which is both > standard and self-contradictory: not used in the sense of "the capacity > to do work". Energy is not the capacity to do work - work disorders > energy, so how can energy be defined as the ability to disorder itself? > That's a description of effects, not causes, as if to say "whe don't > know what it is, but here's what it does". A more direct way is to see > that only *order* can be disordered, random can hardly become more > random, so I define energy as order - order in the substrate for all > energy, which is the virtual photon flux which is the vacuum. Order, > really, does not have so much to do with the "capacity to do work" - > some "order" that has certain energy-related properties cac be used as a > trigger, or structuring element for other energetic processes within an > atom. > > -- > > Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, > Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net > http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 19 21:11:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA22411; Sat, 19 Aug 2000 21:11:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 21:11:03 -0700 Message-ID: <399F5BD2.F96C1E6E@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:17:22 -0400 From: Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------64CEE8A8CE4B0F1CD43E32ED" Resent-Message-ID: <"NwzjG3.0.iT5.Mfrdv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16481 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Free Energy 1 --------------64CEE8A8CE4B0F1CD43E32ED Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All,
   I thought I would start with a definition of free energy. To me that means being able to get more energy out of a system than what you have to put into it. I have seen people really wrestle with that concept. For example, what about a rock rolling down a hill? Or how about a stick of dynamite? Or maybe a nuclear explosion/reactor? Do you get more energy out of all of those things than what you put into them? Yes, no doubt about it. Are any of these things either "overunity" or "Free Energy"? No. Very simple. No. No matter how you slice them they are not. In all of these cases, MORE potential energy exists than what you extract from them. Also you can only get then to go in one direction. Look at the rock for example, it gives you a lot of power going down the hill but it is going to take you even more power to get it back up to the top of the hill again to repeat your cycle. Understand?
   I got into this whole thing because I thought it would be fun to find a way to use the H2 in water as a fuel. In my brief involvement I have seen many ideas advanced (and gadgets sold) which purported to provide free energy but have yet to see any of them get consistently positive reviews or independent confirmation of their validity. So it remains a challenge. I thought it would be nice to give you all a real, simple free energy device that you could experiment with and that wouldn't be too pricey to build or too complex (or dangerous) for the average 12 year old to understand. So that is what I am going to try to do tonight.
   The device, of course, involves water (enki=lord of the waters). If you are interested I hope you enjoy it. If not, delete it.
   First I would like to turn your attention to a simple experiment which I am sure that you are all familiar with. Take a drinking glass and fill it most of the way with water. Next invert it into a shallow pan of water. What happens? The water hangs suspended inside the glass, defying gravity.

   Want anti-gravity in your home, there it is. Why does the water hang inside the glass like that? Because if it fell it would cause the air above it to become so low in pressure that it would create a vacuum. So the air, in it's attempt to stay at standard pressure has enough attractive force to hold the water in place against the force of gravity. You have done the work once and created a self perpetuating system in which the water will stay in that place indefinitely haven't you? If nothing changes in the system it would last indefinitely, but eventually enough water would evaporate from the pan so that air could be drawn up into the glass and the water would fall. Still though do you see the beauty of this? How much energy is required to hold a certain quantity of water in the air like that? Yet here it is, free, for a one time investment.
   Ok, so that is a static system, sort of the the rock on the top of the hill. You can't get any useful energy out of it without having something moving to do the work right? And if you drop the water to get what energy you can out of it you have losses but can get something. Unfortunately you also have to expend more energy to get the water back up into the glass again if you want to continue the cycle with it right? Undoubtedly this system, as depicted above, can't generate any more power than what you put into it and is good for a conversation piece at best. Or is it?
   What if you tried to get some energy out of it? What would be the best way to do it? I like a water wheel myself. Consider the state of the water within the glass. It's water. It's not thinned out like the air above it. I did this experiment and put a small tube into the side of the glass just below the surface of the water near the top of the glass. It isn't hard at all to get water to flow out of that tube. It is at whatever height you have drawn it to so it doesn't have to be pumped "up" to the outlet. It is already there. So it requires much less effort to pump water, from just below the surface, straight OUT of a container than it does to pump water UP from a depth doesn't it? The only drawback is that you would have to use a pump which didn't let air back into the container while you were pumping it out. As you pump it out new water circulates into the container from the pan in the bottom.

   What if you made the tank 30' tall? What if you kept the water level in it at 25'? Then had a 4' pool in the pan at the bottom?
As you pumped the water out of the TOP of the tank it could fall 20' over a water wheel which is connected to a generator. A 20' water wheel can generate a LOT of power, depending on the water flow and the size of the generator which is attached to it. After all, what is a water wheel but a set of levers? Remember you aren't pumping the water UP 20' either. The air is holding it there for you already, you are only supplying the energy to pump it OUT at the desired rate. And again, once the water turns the wheel it falls back into the pan where it eventually is drawn into the bottom of the container again..... Maybe this is how Tesla figured to turn a water wheel with water the wheel pumped to it's top. So there, maybe you are starting to understand. This isn't the free energy device I was talking about, that is still to come. This is a started which may be able to do the job on it's own. The next ones are even better. keep reading.
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Johnston" Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------566C556FD167DE1480139088" Resent-Message-ID: <"VDCth1.0.J23.NPtdv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16482 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Free Energy 2 --------------566C556FD167DE1480139088 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Again,
   Ok, simple right? I built the last thing (sans pump and generator)and was surprised how little energy was required to suck water out of the top level of the water (actual sucking here). I didn't have money for a pump or generator to take the test all the way to completion but I believe it is pretty sound as described and you could duplicate it for under $2 or complete it for under $25 (working scale model). Now let's get on to bigger and better things.
   First I want to show you a new type of container for the water. It is based on the same principles as the previous example but has added design benefits which will allow much more to be accomplished:

   
   What you see is, again, a container. In the container is water and air. At the bottom of the container is an outlet with a valve on it. At the top of the container is an inlet. The dimensions of the container can be whatever you want (up to the 30' height limit for pumping water up by suction). For my experimental models I used Rubbermaid storage containers which are about 8" high and 6" square on the sides. I caulked the inside of the lid to assure an airtight seal. One very important note: In all of these designs NO AIR CAN LEAK IN FROM THE OUTSIDE. For my inlet and outlet I used aquarium tubing. The valve is a brass aquarium air line regulating valve. Be sure to caulk really well around the place where the tubing goes into the container. Remember: NO AIR LEAKS.
   So, ok, if the valve at the bottom of the tank is closed, what happens? Nothing. What happens if you open the valve? One of two things. If the inlet at the top is open then air is drawn into the container from there and gravity pulls the water out the valve in the bottom. If the inlet at the top is blocked then water flows out of the valve and air is sucked back into the valve at the same time to equalize the air pressure. Are we ok with this so far? Good. I built three of these containers. I then hooked them together like this:

   Hmmmmm. Looks sort of interesting, no? What does it do? Good question. Well, if you put a pump on the valve of the last container (I used a manual pump of the sort that you use to suck kerosene out of a can [$2 at a hardware store]) and caulk it real well, and then pump it, it sucks water out of that container. As the water level falls the air above it becomes thinner. Remember from the example of the inverted cup that air doesn't like this situation. It will try to draw in SOMETHING to replace the exiting water (notice NO water can enter at the pump). Since it can't suck air back in through the pump it does the next best thing and sucks the air out of the INLET tube. As the air is sucked out of the inlet tube the water from container number is drawn into the tube and eventually to the top of the tube where it spills into the first container. This is a pump. A natural one that depends on the action of the mechanical pump yes but this container is a pump.
   As the suction from canister number one sucks the water out of canister number two the water level in that canister falls. When it does it sucks the air out of the tube from canister three and soon the water is flowing from three to two as well as from two to one. All of the energy that is being put INTO the system is the energy to pump water OUT of canister number one. Air is supplying the energy to lift and pump the water within the system. As long as the pump keeps pumping the air in the first container will remain diminished and keep sucking water in (as will two and three). The water will move between the canisters at the same rate that it is exiting the pump. So now the pump that is rated at say, 4 gallons per minute, is actually moving 4 gallons  a minute through 3 openings for a total 12 gallons per minute.
next installment coming soon.
Enki
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(8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA19018; Sat, 19 Aug 2000 23:47:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 23:47:47 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [209.254.40.67] From: "Mehmet Boysal" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy 2 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 06:47:45 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2000 06:47:45.0809 (UTC) FILETIME=[8C057010:01C00A72] Resent-Message-ID: <"otUMw2.0.3f4.Hytdv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16483 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com <> >From: Enki >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: "Michael S. Johnston" >Subject: [FG]: Free Energy 2 >Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 02:16:59 -0400 > ><< multipart1 >> ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 20 00:01:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA21521; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:01:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:01:07 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 03:01:02 -0400 Message-Id: <200008200701.DAA13694@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"FSE8y.0.5G5.n8udv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16484 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ><There is a problem with the pic's you send, no one is showing here! >Can you upload them to some server? >(if you need help? to do that, I can do it for you, for free.) >Mehmet.>> Yeah, they are coming up, but the all have the same filename. You have to send them with separate filenames, mime encoded, attachments. Or, you could put them on a server, which would be the best idea, anyway. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 20 00:32:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA26981; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:31:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:31:25 -0700 Message-ID: <399F8ACF.A98838C@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 03:37:51 -0400 From: Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------C58F796D5C7FD5955CA8EF3F" Resent-Message-ID: <"hraqc.0.Ib6.Dbudv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16485 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Free Energy 3 --------------C58F796D5C7FD5955CA8EF3F Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI Again,
   Ok, so, where were we? Oh yes, I remember, I was giving you the world's first true overunity device (I think).
   I only put three containers on the system but the pump seemed to have no trouble with it so I'm not sure there is a limit to the number it could carry. Probably this is tied to the capacity of the pump. Remember that we are pumping water OUT  from the BOTTOM of container number one and so, as long as the air has somewhere else (the inlet) to suck something in from, gravity is helping us move the water out! There is very little effort required by the pump to do this.
   My next step was to add a holding tank so that I could connect container three to that as it's intake supply and as the catch basin for the pumps outlet:

   So now we have a little complete cycle from intake to outlet. All in one neat, continuous loop. I thought I might be onto something here. So far we have natural forces helping us allow one pump to do the work of three, four if you count sucking water up out of the basin. By the way the basin was also a Rubbermaid storage container. I like them because they are sturdy plastic and they are transparent. Also please view the holding basin as being in front of the containers and not below it. The above diagram lacks perspective to make it easier to see.
   The next step was to see how we could generate power with this device. Hopefully we can make enough to run our one pump:

 
 

   As you can see it would be possible to run a total of 4 water wheel/generator combinations with this setup. Add more canisters, add equally more wheel/generators. Are we at overunity yet? The water was flowing into the containers anyway and the weight of the falling water turns the wheels so they put zero additional stress on the system. But wait, there's more. At this point let's imagine an electrical pump instead of the hand powered one.
MJ
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KKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooA//9k= --------------C58F796D5C7FD5955CA8EF3F-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 20 00:33:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA27233; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:32:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:32:39 -0700 Message-ID: <399F8B24.DBFCECC4@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 03:39:16 -0400 From: Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy 2 References: <200008200701.DAA13694@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wdG9k3.0.Qf6.Ncudv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16486 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ooops! Sorry. Let me know if the latest one came through with pic's, ok? I forgot something. MJ I can repost the others. Michael T Huffman wrote: > >< >There is a problem with the pic's you send, no one is showing here! > >Can you upload them to some server? > >(if you need help? to do that, I can do it for you, for free.) > >Mehmet.>> > > Yeah, they are coming up, but the all have the same filename. You have to > send them with separate filenames, mime encoded, attachments. Or, you could > put them on a server, which would be the best idea, anyway. > > Knuke > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > The Villages, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke@LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 20 00:37:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA29539; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:36:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:36:47 -0700 Message-ID: <399F8C15.C87DD0D7@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 03:43:17 -0400 From: Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------D054F6498D86AB9F80A58453" Resent-Message-ID: <"sCzM9.0.JD7.Cgudv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16487 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Free Energy 1, repost --------------D054F6498D86AB9F80A58453 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All,
   I thought I would start with a definition of free energy. To me that means being able to get more energy out of a system than
what you have to put into it. I have seen people really wrestle with that concept. For example, what about a rock rolling down
a hill? Or how about a stick of dynamite? Or maybe a nuclear explosion/reactor? Do you get more energy out of all of those
things than what you put into them? Yes, no doubt about it. Are any of these things either "overunity" or "Free Energy"? No.
Very simple. No. No matter how you slice them they are not. In all of these cases, MORE potential energy exists than what
you extract from them. Also you can only get then to go in one direction. Look at the rock for example, it gives you a lot of
power going down the hill but it is going to take you even more power to get it back up to the top of the hill again to repeat
your cycle. Understand?
   I got into this whole thing because I thought it would be fun to find a way to use the H2 in water as a fuel. In my brief
involvement I have seen many ideas advanced (and gadgets sold) which purported to provide free energy but have yet to see
any of them get consistently positive reviews or independent confirmation of their validity. So it remains a challenge. I thought it
would be nice to give you all a real, simple free energy device that you could experiment with and that wouldn't be too pricey
to build or too complex (or dangerous) for the average 12 year old to understand. So that is what I am going to try to do
tonight.
   The device, of course, involves water (enki=lord of the waters). If you are interested I hope you enjoy it. If not, delete it.
   First I would like to turn your attention to a simple experiment which I am sure that you are all familiar with. Take a drinking
glass and fill it most of the way with water. Next invert it into a shallow pan of water. What happens? The water hangs
suspended inside the glass, defying gravity.

 
   Want anti-gravity in your home, there it is. Why does the water hang inside the glass like that? Because if it fell it would cause
the air above it to become so low in pressure that it would create a vacuum. So the air, in it's attempt to stay at standard
pressure has enough attractive force to hold the water in place against the force of gravity. You have done the work once and
created a self perpetuating system in which the water will stay in that place indefinitely haven't you? If nothing changes in the
system it would last indefinitely, but eventually enough water would evaporate from the pan so that air could be drawn up into
the glass and the water would fall. Still though do you see the beauty of this? How much energy is required to hold a certain
quantity of water in the air like that? Yet here it is, free, for a one time investment.
   Ok, so that is a static system, sort of the the rock on the top of the hill. You can't get any useful energy out of it without
having something moving to do the work right? And if you drop the water to get what energy you can out of it you have losses
but can get something. Unfortunately you also have to expend more energy to get the water back up into the glass again if you
want to continue the cycle with it right? Undoubtedly this system, as depicted above, can't generate any more power than what
you put into it and is good for a conversation piece at best. Or is it?
   What if you tried to get some energy out of it? What would be the best way to do it? I like a water wheel myself. Consider
the state of the water within the glass. It's water. It's not thinned out like the air above it. I did this experiment and put a small
tube into the side of the glass just below the surface of the water near the top of the glass. It isn't hard at all to get water to flow
out of that tube. It is at whatever height you have drawn it to so it doesn't have to be pumped "up" to the outlet. It is already
there. So it requires much less effort to pump water, from just below the surface, straight OUT of a container than it does to
pump water UP from a depth doesn't it? The only drawback is that you would have to use a pump which didn't let air back
into the container while you were pumping it out. As you pump it out new water circulates into the container from the pan in the
bottom.

 
   What if you made the tank 30' tall? What if you kept the water level in it at 25'? Then had a 4' pool in the pan at the bottom?
As you pumped the water out of the TOP of the tank it could fall 20' over a water wheel which is connected to a generator. A
20' water wheel can generate a LOT of power, depending on the water flow and the size of the generator which is attached to
it. After all, what is a water wheel but a set of levers? Remember you aren't pumping the water UP 20' either. The air is holding
it there for you already, you are only supplying the energy to pump it OUT at the desired rate. And again, once the water turns
the wheel it falls back into the pan where it eventually is drawn into the bottom of the container again..... Maybe this is how
Tesla figured to turn a water wheel with water the wheel pumped to it's top. So there, maybe you are starting to understand.
This isn't the free energy device I was talking about, that is still to come. This is a started which may be able to do the job on
it's own. The next ones are even better. keep reading.
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Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:56:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:56:01 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy 1 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 07:55:55 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <399f877d.2841996@mail.midiowa.net> References: <399F5BD2.F96C1E6E@csrlink.net> In-Reply-To: <399F5BD2.F96C1E6E@csrlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA01866 Resent-Message-ID: <"FkcRT.0.NT.Fyudv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16488 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Michael, On Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:17:22 -0400, Enki wrote: Hi Michael, It sure would help if you 1) turned off HTML so we don't have to open a web browser to read your text and 2) include your diagrams as attachments to your message instead of attempting to have them embedded within your text. It takes some doing to try to reconstruct what you're getting at. >First I would like to turn your attention to a simple >experiment which I am sure that you are all familiar with. Take a drinking >glass and fill it most of the way with water. Next invert it into a shallow >pan of water. What happens? The water hangs suspended inside the glass, >defying gravity. >Want anti-gravity in your home, there it is. Why does >the water hang inside the glass like that? Because if it fell it would >cause the air above it to become so low in pressure that it would create >a vacuum. So the air, in it's attempt to stay at standard pressure has >enough attractive force to hold the water in place against the force of >gravity. It's not attractive force, exactly. It air pressure pushing against the water outside the glass that's holding the weight of the water up inside the glass. That's exactly how the original barometer was made. It measures air pressure. > You have done the work once and created a self perpetuating system >in which the water will stay in that place indefinitely haven't you? If >nothing changes in the system it would last indefinitely, but eventually >enough water would evaporate from the pan so that air could be drawn up >into the glass and the water would fall. It'll fall only far enough to produce a seal around the bottom, then stop. Go to Wal-Mart and look for the Dogloo line of automatic pet waterers. They have a big (2-3 gallon) water bottle on top of a small tray, with a little hole in the tray to allow water from the bottle to flow into it. The tray fills with water from the bottle and when the water in the tray is above the hole, the water stops flowing because the air pressure is enough to prevent the flow. There are no valves or anything else -- just the big bottle and the tray. >
   What if you tried to get some energy out of it? What would >be the best way to do it? I like a water wheel myself. Consider the state >of the water within the glass. It's water. It's not thinned out like the >air above it. I did this experiment and put a small tube into the side >of the glass just below the surface of the water near the top of the glass. >It isn't hard at all to get water to flow out of that tube. It is at whatever >height you have drawn it to so it doesn't have to be pumped "up" to the >outlet. It is already there. It took me a little while, but I finally figure out what you're getting at. :) >So it requires much less effort to pump water, >from just below the surface, straight OUT of a container than it does to >pump water UP from a depth doesn't it? In a word, no. Since your container is sealed at the top, you need just as much power to pump the water from the top (raising "new" water from the bottom) as it does to pump it from the bottom -- which is what you're really doing. >The only drawback is that you would >have to use a pump which didn't let air back into the container while you >were pumping it out. As you pump it out new water circulates into the container >from the pan in the bottom. The pump would still have to raise the water from the pan on the bottom. Water comes in at the bottom and flows out the top, and the pump has to raise that water up to it's level. This is the same situation of a well pump, water that's a few feet (or a few hundred feet) underground has to be brought up. It doesn't matter if it's a sealed container. >Maybe this is how Tesla figured >to turn a water wheel with water the wheel pumped to it's top. So there, Or ... maybe Tesla used a whirlpool. :) -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 20 01:32:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA07677; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 01:32:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 01:32:08 -0700 Message-ID: <399F990D.38B827D7@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 04:38:38 -0400 From: Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XRKf92.0.Kt1.6Uvdv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16489 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: put papers on website now ok,ok, I put all three installments up on my website. Go here to see them: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/myideas.html The third one is the one I actually made anyway. Won't get to see the end one now though, I am tired. Lucky you. mj From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 20 08:47:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA09782; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 08:46:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 08:46:49 -0700 Message-ID: <399FFEF0.975C4E82@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 11:53:20 -0400 From: Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy 2 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jpM0p3.0.lO2.er_dv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16490 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, Thanks, I got it. been a while since I played with the site. MJ Mehmet Boysal wrote: > < There is a problem with the pic's you send, no one is showing here! > Can you upload them to some server? > (if you need help? to do that, I can do it for you, for free.) > Mehmet.>> > > >From: Enki > >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >To: "Michael S. Johnston" > >Subject: [FG]: Free Energy 2 > >Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 02:16:59 -0400 > > > ><< multipart1 >> > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 20 08:48:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA09971; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 08:47:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 08:47:38 -0700 Message-ID: <399FFF1C.BA5578BE@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 11:54:04 -0400 From: Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy 2 References: <200008200701.DAA13694@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7fF9U2.0.iR2.Ps_dv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16491 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Knuke, Thanks, I got it on the website now. MJ Michael T Huffman wrote: > >< >There is a problem with the pic's you send, no one is showing here! > >Can you upload them to some server? > >(if you need help? to do that, I can do it for you, for free.) > >Mehmet.>> > > Yeah, they are coming up, but the all have the same filename. You have to > send them with separate filenames, mime encoded, attachments. Or, you could > put them on a server, which would be the best idea, anyway. > > Knuke > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > The Villages, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke@LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 20 12:02:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA20931; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 12:01:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 12:01:25 -0700 Message-ID: <002601c00ad8$abdbdb20$438701d4@default> From: "Gavin" To: "FG" Cc: "keely" Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 19:57:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01C00AE0.E1EC84A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"9cZnX.0.l65.5i2ev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16492 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C00AE0.E1EC84A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, for a while I have been an avid coiler, but have now decided to embark = upon the exploration of more subtle energies. So I have turned away from = the scene of high voltage currents to the realm of strange electronics. = Naturally my first port of call was Hodowanec's work on gravity wave = detectors. I have built the circuit on breadboard to see what exactly it did, but = may build a "fixed" version on strip-board; full details of the circuit = can be fond in the file grav3.html, otherwise I'll send a pcx file of = the circuit to anybody who is interested. Anyway, the results. I first built the simple circuit but found it rather insufficient so I = moved on to building the "improved circuit" as described in the grav3 = file, this circuit gave better results due to greater total gain. Now, in the circuit diagram the value of sensing capacitor was stated to = be 0.22, this could mean 220nF or 220pF, most likely 220nF considering = standard notation. However, due to some of the frequencies stated in the = file, I decided that 220pF was more likely.......I was wrong; I think = the term is "ego-driven modifications"; 220nF works just fine! With the 220nF and the QND capacitor out of circuit, the output was low = amplitude noise when the Gain potentiometer (RV2) was set to minimum = (i.e. the wiper was right round to near ground). As the potentiometer = was turned to maximum, there was a clear tone of around 750Hz (the out = but of the circuit was connected to both a scope and simple audio = amplifier). By adjusting the other potentiometer (the one in the = feedback path from the first op-amps output to the inverting input, from = now on RV1) this tone change in pitch, upto around 1.5KHz. When Gain RV2 = was set between Tone and Noise, the signal sounded something like morse = code. There was a general ELF signal modulated upon this tone, although = it was not well defined. When the QND capacitor was connected into circuit, the out was pure = noise. When the 220nF sensing capacitor was removed, the noise = disappeared (only low level mains hum present), so the sensing capacitor = was definitely the source of the noise (not the 741 op-amp which makes = an excellent noise source in it's own right :-) ). Adjusting RV1 only = influenced the general tone of the white/pink noise. I tried replacing the 220nF sensing capacitor with a 1000uF electrolytic = as suggested in file grav3, this did not work to great. The signal = sounded like a low frequency pulse train (say around 5Hz or so). However = on the virtual scope (which tended to inject it's own noise, i.e the = switch mode PSU for the laptop, around 3kHz) the signal was found to be = a train of impulses or spikes, also amplitude modulated with the strange = ELF signal. As spikes contain harmonics, the addition of the QND = capacitor made no difference at all, the pulsing remained. I then tried a 100uF cap, this was best of all. Without the QND = capacitor the output was again pulsing and the frequency of this could = be altered by adjusting RV1. When the QND capacitor was connected, the = pulsing only really ceased when both RV1 and RV2 were set to particular = point (more of a certain minimum, i.e. a 3rd of the way round, when the = frequency and gain were low enough but a signal was still present) When = this was achieved, lower frequency pink noise was present at the output. = This pink noise definitely had some structured, yet complex, signal deep = within it. Just to check, I tried replacing the sensing capacitor with other = components. First I left it open circuit, this resulted in very low = level mains hum; the same as when a 220pF capacitor is connected. The I = tried shorting to ground, this resulted in no signal what so ever, apart = from some very low level noise from the op-amps. In contrast to this I = connect a 10M resistor, this resulted in again low level mains hum. The most amazing result was achieved by replacing the capacitor with a = piezo-electric element. After tuning my head to stop the acoustic = feed-back to the headphones, I could hear every movement I made. When I = dropped a softish item on the table, I heard a massive thud. Not only = this, but I could hear a conversation from next door; I live in a = detached house!! I also replaced the capacitor with two electrodes inserted into the = ground. With both electrodes it was no different to shorting the = inverting input to ground (as mentioned above). However, after removing = the earth electrode connected the circuit ground, with only the = inverting input connected to a earth electrode; the circuit gave a tone = similar to when the 100uF capacitor was connected. The frequency of this = tone altered as I raised the whole breadboard from the ground, = increasing in frequency with height (obvious capacitive coupling, but at = 100uF!?), it was only after a foot or so that I began to hear mains hum = and typical natural earth current activity; all through a single wire. The best sensing capacitor was found to be a disc ceramic 220nF, other = 220nF capacitors were tried. Well, that's it, read grav3 and give it a try. Regards, Gavin ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C00AE0.E1EC84A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,
for a while I have been an avid coiler, = but have=20 now decided to embark upon the exploration of more subtle energies. So I = have=20 turned away from the scene of high voltage currents to the realm of = strange=20 electronics. Naturally my first port of call was Hodowanec's work = on=20 gravity wave detectors.
I have built the circuit = on breadboard to see=20 what exactly it did, but may build a "fixed" version on strip-board; = full=20 details of the circuit can be fond in the file grav3.html, = otherwise I'll=20 send a pcx file of the circuit to anybody who is interested. Anyway, the = results.
 
I first built the simple circuit but = found it=20 rather insufficient so I moved on to building the "improved circuit" as=20 described in the grav3 file, this circuit gave better results due to = greater=20 total gain.
 
Now, in the circuit diagram the value = of sensing=20 capacitor was stated to be 0.22, this could mean 220nF or 220pF, most = likely=20 220nF considering standard notation. However, due to some of the = frequencies=20 stated in the file, I decided that 220pF was more likely.......I was = wrong; I=20 think the term is "ego-driven modifications"; 220nF works just=20 fine!
 
With the 220nF and the QND capacitor = out of=20 circuit, the output was low amplitude noise when the Gain potentiometer=20 (RV2) was set to minimum (i.e. the wiper was right round to=20 near ground). As the potentiometer was turned to maximum, there was = a clear=20 tone of around 750Hz (the out but of the circuit was connected to both a = scope=20 and simple audio amplifier). By adjusting the other potentiometer (the = one in=20 the feedback path from the first op-amps output to the inverting input, = from now=20 on RV1) this tone change in pitch, upto around 1.5KHz. When = Gain RV2 was=20 set between Tone and Noise, the signal sounded something like morse = code.=20 There was a general ELF signal modulated upon this tone, although it was = not=20 well defined.
 
When the QND capacitor was = connected into=20 circuit, the out was pure noise. When the 220nF sensing capacitor = was=20 removed, the noise disappeared (only low level mains hum present), so = the=20 sensing capacitor was definitely the source of the noise (not the 741 = op-amp=20 which makes an excellent noise source in it's own right :-) ). Adjusting = RV1=20 only influenced the general tone of the = white/pink noise.
 
I tried replacing the 220nF = sensing capacitor=20 with a 1000uF electrolytic as = suggested in=20 file grav3, this did not work to great. The signal sounded like a low = frequency=20 pulse train (say around 5Hz or so). However on the virtual scope (which = tended=20 to inject it's own noise, i.e the switch mode PSU for the laptop, around = 3kHz)=20 the signal was found to be a train of impulses or spikes, also amplitude = modulated with the strange ELF signal. As spikes contain harmonics, the = addition=20 of the QND capacitor made no difference at all, the pulsing=20 remained.
 
I then tried a 100uF cap, this was best = of all.=20 Without the QND capacitor the output was again pulsing and the frequency = of this=20 could be altered by adjusting RV1. When the QND capacitor was connected, = the=20 pulsing only really ceased when both RV1 and RV2 were set to particular = point=20 (more of a certain minimum, i.e. a 3rd of the way round, when the=20 frequency and gain were low enough but a signal was still=20 present)  When this was achieved, lower frequency pink noise = was=20 present at the output. This pink noise definitely had some structured, = yet=20 complex, signal deep within it.
 
Just to check, I tried replacing the = sensing=20 capacitor with other components. First I left it open circuit, this = resulted in=20 very low level mains hum; the same as when a 220pF capacitor is = connected. The I=20 tried shorting to ground, this resulted in no signal what so ever, apart = from=20 some very low level noise from the op-amps. In contrast to this I = connect a 10M=20 resistor, this resulted in again low level mains hum.
 
The most amazing result was achieved by = replacing=20 the capacitor with a piezo-electric element. After tuning my head to = stop the=20 acoustic feed-back to the headphones, I could hear every movement I = made. When I=20 dropped a softish item on the table, I heard a massive thud. Not only = this, but=20 I could hear a conversation from next door; I live in a detached=20 house!!
 
I also replaced the capacitor with two = electrodes=20 inserted into the ground. With both electrodes it was no different to = shorting=20 the inverting input to ground (as mentioned above). However, after = removing=20 the earth electrode connected the circuit ground, with only the = inverting=20 input connected to a earth electrode; the circuit gave a tone = similar to=20 when the 100uF capacitor was connected. The frequency of this tone = altered as I=20 raised the whole breadboard from the ground, increasing in frequency = with height=20 (obvious capacitive coupling, but at 100uF!?), it was only after a foot = or so=20 that I began to hear mains hum and typical natural earth current = activity; all=20 through a single wire.
 
The best sensing capacitor was found to = be a disc=20 ceramic 220nF, other 220nF capacitors were tried.
 
 
Well, that's it, read grav3 and give it = a=20 try.
 
Regards,
 
Gavin
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C00AE0.E1EC84A0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 20 13:14:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA06928; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:14:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:14:11 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 20:14:06 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <39a2393c.4197708@mail.midiowa.net> References: <002601c00ad8$abdbdb20$438701d4@default> In-Reply-To: <002601c00ad8$abdbdb20$438701d4@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA06875 Resent-Message-ID: <"K6_Tk3.0.9i1.Im3ev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16493 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 20 Aug 2000 19:57:34 +0100, "Gavin" wrote: >Now, in the circuit diagram the value of sensing capacitor was stated to be 0.22, this could mean 220nF or 220pF, Usually, in radio work, .22 means .22 microfarads -- 220,000 pf. (A standard disk bypass cap of .01 means 10,000 pf.) most likely 220nF considering standard notation. However, due to some of the frequencies stated in the file, I decided that 220pF was more likely.......I was wrong; I think the term is "ego-driven modifications"; 220nF works just fine! >I tried replacing the 220nF sensing capacitor with a 1000uF electrolytic as suggested in file grav3, this did not work to great. Good grief. Huge difference in size -- many orders of magnitude. It's like replacing a tricycle with an ocean liner or a grain of sand with the Cheops pyramid. 1 microfarad is 1 million times larger than 1 picofarad. >I then tried a 100uF cap, this was best of all. I'm sorta guessing (I haven't looked at the circuit), but I suspect that what's needed, if the capacitor is the sense element, is a flat capacitor. That is, two flat layers of foil separated by a dielectric. All store bought capacitors are rolled/folded to get high capacitance in a small package. -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 20 17:30:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00581; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:29:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:29:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:29:44 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: dallas cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: TAKE ME OFF YOUR LIST PLEASE In-Reply-To: <002401bfda51$301a4f60$ec914218@gvso1.bc.wave.home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SHh4O2.0.w8.xV7ev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16494 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subscribers add themselves and remove themselves. Did you not receive the following message when you subscribed? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L WARNING: SAVE THIS MESSAGE, IT CONTAINS INSTRUCTIONS FOR UNSUBSCRIBING WARNING: READ THE RULES BEFORE USING FREENRG-L ! ! ! ************************************************************************* Welcome to FREENRG-L ************************************************************************* Created: Sept. 1995 FREENRG-L is for the discussion of experiments and devices which exhibit anomalous energy production (or consumption!), or which violate currently-accepted physics theory. This includes: * "Overunity" * Electrogravity & inertia violation * Scalar Electromagnetism * Psi phenomena and Paranormal * Relativity violation * Unusual Scientific Instruments ...and any similar topics which the regular users consider interesting (ask us!) The discussion is limited to experimentalism. Or theory-led experiments. Or theoretical implications of experiments. This is not a forum for all those controversial physics theories being ignored by mainstream science. But if your theory leads directly to interesting, testable, real-world phenomena, then by all means discuss the experimental possibilites. If your experiments reveal anomalies not predicted by ANY theory, definitely jump right in and discuss your findings. Also it's very acceptable to publish theoretical work on a web page and announce its presence here. 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However, flamewars are caused by participants, and in order to halt the endless cycle of hostile counterattacks, I must prohibit angry RESPONSES as well as initial insults. If you catch yourself thinking "well, he/she started it, I was just defending myself," since you easily find justification to violate rule #1 of this forum, perhaps you should not be here. Some wisdom regarding flaming... "Few people can be happy unless they hate some other person, nation or creed." - Bertrand Russell "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function." - F. Scott Fitzgerald Being too ready to defend oneself is more dangerous than being too ready to admit a mistake." - Sir Karl Popper "Truth often suffers more by the heat of its defenders than by the arguments of its opponents." - anon "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you. If you really make them think, they'll hate you." - D.R.P. Marquis(1878-1937) ********************************************************************* GROWTH OF LIST SUBSCRIBERS # of users Date 1 ....... 09/03/95 28 ....... 10/07/95 133 ....... 12/03/95 153 ....... 12/27/95 285 ....... 11/27/96 310 ....... 12/06/97 316 ........09/13/98 298 ....... 12/17/99 ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 20 17:37:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA04169; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:36:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:36:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:36:23 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Ionizer module In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20000819133134.2e5f44d6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KJzrd2.0.211.9c7ev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16495 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, Dave Dameron wrote: > Hi Bill and all, > I bought one of the ionizer modules you mentioned, as from All Electronics. > The output seems to be negative unfiltered DC, from 7 to 10 kV. > The ion wind is easily felt from the 4 needle points. > > It isn't obvious to me which of the "line wires" is the HV return, for > applications where it it desired to know, such as capacitor charging. Here's a possible way to determine which wire is "ground": figure out a way to detect whether there is a 120v sine wave riding on the 7KV line, then connect the black and white wires to the wall outlet first with black to hot, then switch the leads so white goes to hot. When you see 120v riding on the 7KV, then whatever wire is connected to the AC hot at the time, that is the ionizer's "common" wire. If 120vac is negligable compared to the 7KV output, then just use the AC neutral as ground, and it won't matter how you connect the power lines to the ionizer. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 20 17:38:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA05228; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:37:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:37:50 -0700 Message-ID: <325380B7F2EED211B46700805F15B4654D1E5E@itntl-msg02.itntl.bhp.com.au> From: "Croese, Darren DM" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: [FG]: TAKE ME OFF YOUR LIST PLEASE Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:37:05 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2652.78) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"SXLr71.0.bH1.Ud7ev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16496 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Some of us can't. My eMail address was changed without warning by the company I work for - thus the automatic system doesn't work as it will only unsubscribe my currently active eMail. As all eMail to my old address gets automatically forwarded to my new I now get 2 copies of every message posted to the group. I've sent a message to billb@eskimo.com explaining this but nothing has happened yet. Cheers, Daz. -----Original Message----- From: William Beaty [mailto:billb@eskimo.com] Sent: Monday, 21 August 2000 10:30 To: dallas Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: TAKE ME OFF YOUR LIST PLEASE Subscribers add themselves and remove themselves. Did you not receive the following message when you subscribed? EOM NOTICE - This message contains information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. It may also be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate , copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify postmaster@bhp.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 20 20:45:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA01958; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 20:45:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 20:45:01 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 23:44:52 -0400 Message-Id: <200008210344.XAA10568@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit Resent-Message-ID: <"ohbbS2.0.UU.xMAev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16497 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Hi all, >for a while I have been an avid coiler, but have now decided to embark upon the exploration of more subtle energies. So I have turned away from the scene of high voltage currents to the realm of strange electronics. Naturally my first port of call was Hodowanec's work on gravity wave detectors. >I have built the circuit on breadboard to see what exactly it did, but may build a "fixed" version on strip-board; full details of the circuit can be fond in the file grav3.html, otherwise I'll send a pcx file of the circuit to anybody who is interested. Anyway, the results. Hi Gavin, Is this grav3.html file on a website somewhere? I don't see any URL, and didn't get an attachment. If you sent an attachment that was too large to the group, it may have been filtered out. thanks, Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 20 21:31:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA19005; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:31:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:31:06 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 23:30:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: FG Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit In-Reply-To: <002601c00ad8$abdbdb20$438701d4@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xK-fZ3.0.fe4.92Bev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16498 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Gavin wrote: > Hi all, > for a while I have been an avid coiler, but have now decided to embark > upon the exploration of more subtle energies. So I have turned away from > the scene of high voltage currents to the realm of strange electronics. > Naturally my first port of call was Hodowanec's work on gravity wave > detectors. > I have built the circuit on breadboard to see what exactly it did, but > may build a "fixed" version on strip-board; full details of the circuit > can be fond in the file grav3.html, otherwise I'll send a pcx file of > the circuit to anybody who is interested. Anyway, the results. > > I first built the simple circuit but found it rather insufficient so I > moved on to building the "improved circuit" as described in the grav3 > file, this circuit gave better results due to greater total gain. > > Now, in the circuit diagram the value of sensing capacitor was stated > to be 0.22, this could mean 220nF or 220pF, most likely 220nF > considering standard notation. However, due to some of the frequencies > stated in the file, I decided that 220pF was more likely.......I was > wrong; I think the term is "ego-driven modifications"; 220nF works just > fine! > When the original article appeared in Radio-Electronics magazine, I built the circuit exactly as described there. There was a follow-up article which used a 0.22 uF (220 nF) capacitor as a radar detector circuit for police radars, but I never could get mine to detect radar signals. In the original article, larger values of capacitance were recommended for "gravity-wave" detection. I think I tried various values between 10 and 4700 uF and got different results with different values. I found that the larger capacitance values seemed to tune to something which didn't change as rapidly and required a chart recorder to really see anything going on. The smaller values of capacitance (10 to 47 uF) produced various audio outputs. I'd like to mention that you have to monitor the output for a longish period of time to really observe the changes. Sometimes the output would be relatively stable with very minor fluctuations for weeks; then there would be several days of wild fluctuations and eerie "howls"; then it would settle down again for weeks. I have no idea what I was really listening to - by Hodowanec's cosmology, it could've been a sun going nova across the galaxy or even farther away. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 06:22:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA22687; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 06:22:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 06:22:03 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000821082001.009585e0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:22:25 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit In-Reply-To: References: <002601c00ad8$abdbdb20$438701d4@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_675400==_.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <"jnaWt1.0.OY5.xpIev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16499 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --=====================_675400==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed This looks interesting.... If nothing else comes from it, at least it will be fun. Sure would like to se some info... and possibly a diagram. At 11:30 PM 8/20/00 -0500, you wrote: >On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Gavin wrote: > > > Hi all, > > for a while I have been an avid coiler, but have now decided to embark > > upon the exploration of more subtle energies. So I have turned away from > > the scene of high voltage currents to the realm of strange electronics. > > Naturally my first port of call was Hodowanec's work on gravity wave > > detectors. > > I have built the circuit on breadboard to see what exactly it did, but > > may build a "fixed" version on strip-board; full details of the circuit > > can be fond in the file grav3.html, otherwise I'll send a pcx file of > > the circuit to anybody who is interested. Anyway, the results. > > > > I first built the simple circuit but found it rather insufficient so I > > moved on to building the "improved circuit" as described in the grav3 > > file, this circuit gave better results due to greater total gain. > > > > Now, in the circuit diagram the value of sensing capacitor was stated > > to be 0.22, this could mean 220nF or 220pF, most likely 220nF > > considering standard notation. However, due to some of the frequencies > > stated in the file, I decided that 220pF was more likely.......I was > > wrong; I think the term is "ego-driven modifications"; 220nF works just > > fine! > > > >When the original article appeared in Radio-Electronics magazine, I built >the circuit exactly as described there. There was a follow-up article >which used a 0.22 uF (220 nF) capacitor as a radar detector circuit for >police radars, but I never could get mine to detect radar signals. > >In the original article, larger values of capacitance were recommended for >"gravity-wave" detection. I think I tried various values between 10 and >4700 uF and got different results with different values. I found that the >larger capacitance values seemed to tune to something which didn't change >as rapidly and required a chart recorder to really see anything going on. >The smaller values of capacitance (10 to 47 uF) produced various audio >outputs. > >I'd like to mention that you have to monitor the output for a longish >period of time to really observe the changes. Sometimes the output would >be relatively stable with very minor fluctuations for weeks; then there >would be several days of wild fluctuations and eerie "howls"; then it >would settle down again for weeks. I have no idea what I was really >listening to - by Hodowanec's cosmology, it could've been a sun going nova >across the galaxy or even farther away. > >Zack --=====================_675400==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" This looks interesting....

If nothing else comes from it, at least it will be fun.
Sure would like to se some info...   and possibly a diagram.


At 11:30 PM 8/20/00 -0500, you wrote:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Gavin wrote:

> Hi all,
> for a while I have been an avid coiler, but have now decided to embark
> upon the exploration of more subtle energies. So I have turned away from
> the scene of high voltage currents to the realm of strange electronics.
> Naturally my first port of call was Hodowanec's work on gravity wave
> detectors.
> I have built the circuit on breadboard to see what exactly it did, but
> may build a "fixed" version on strip-board; full details of the circuit
> can be fond in the file grav3.html, otherwise I'll send a pcx file of
> the circuit to anybody who is interested. Anyway, the results.
>
>  I first built the simple circuit but found it rather insufficient so I
> moved on to building the "improved circuit" as described in the grav3
> file, this circuit gave better results due to greater total gain.
>
> Now, in the circuit diagram the value of sensing capacitor was stated
> to be 0.22, this could mean 220nF or 220pF, most likely 220nF
> considering standard notation. However, due to some of the frequencies
> stated in the file, I decided that 220pF was more likely.......I was
> wrong; I think the term is "ego-driven modifications"; 220nF works just
> fine!
>

When the original article appeared in Radio-Electronics magazine, I built
the circuit exactly as described there.  There was a follow-up article
which used a 0.22 uF (220 nF) capacitor as a radar detector circuit for
police radars, but I never could get mine to detect radar signals.

In the original article, larger values of capacitance were recommended for
"gravity-wave" detection.  I think I tried various values between 10 and
4700 uF and got different results with different values.  I found that the
larger capacitance values seemed to tune to something which didn't change
as rapidly and required a chart recorder to really see anything going on.
The smaller values of capacitance (10 to 47 uF) produced various audio
outputs. 

I'd like to mention that you have to monitor the output for a longish
period of time to really observe the changes.  Sometimes the output would
be relatively stable with very minor fluctuations for weeks; then there
would be several days of wild fluctuations and eerie "howls"; then it
would settle down again for weeks.  I have no idea what I was really
listening to - by Hodowanec's cosmology, it could've been a sun going nova
across the galaxy or even farther away.

Zack
--=====================_675400==_.ALT-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 06:44:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA30872; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 06:43:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 06:43:59 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000821084347.0094e310@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:44:22 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit In-Reply-To: <200008210344.XAA10568@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1988184==_.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <"g6NQC.0.HY7.V8Jev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16500 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --=====================_1988184==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Is this the file? http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/grav3.txt At 11:44 PM 8/20/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi all, > >for a while I have been an avid coiler, but have now decided to embark upon >the exploration of more subtle energies. So I have turned away from the >scene of high voltage currents to the realm of strange electronics. >Naturally my first port of call was Hodowanec's work on gravity wave >detectors. > >I have built the circuit on breadboard to see what exactly it did, but may >build a "fixed" version on strip-board; full details of the circuit can be >fond in the file grav3.html, otherwise I'll send a pcx file of the circuit >to anybody who is interested. Anyway, the results. > >Hi Gavin, > >Is this grav3.html file on a website somewhere? I don't see any URL, and >didn't get an attachment. If you sent an attachment that was too large to >the group, it may have been filtered out. > >thanks, > >Knuke >Michael T. Huffman >Huffman Technology Company >1121 Dustin Drive >The Villages, Florida 32159 >(352)259-1276 >knuke@LCIA.COM >http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm --=====================_1988184==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Is this the file?

http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/grav3.txt


At 11:44 PM 8/20/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>for a while I have been an avid coiler, but have now decided to embark upon
the exploration of more subtle energies. So I have turned away from the
scene of high voltage currents to the realm of strange electronics.
Naturally my first port of call was Hodowanec's work on gravity wave detectors.
>I have built the circuit on breadboard to see what exactly it did, but may
build a "fixed" version on strip-board; full details of the circuit can be
fond in the file grav3.html, otherwise I'll send a pcx file of the circuit
to anybody who is interested. Anyway, the results.

Hi Gavin,

Is this grav3.html file on a website somewhere?  I don't see any URL, and
didn't get an attachment.  If you sent an attachment that was too large to
the group, it may have been filtered out.

thanks,

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm
--=====================_1988184==_.ALT-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 07:27:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA12979; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 07:26:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 07:26:40 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000821084951.0095b5f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 09:27:02 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000821084347.0094e310@pop.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200008210344.XAA10568@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_4547219==_.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <"K6sRX1.0.iA3.VmJev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16501 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --=====================_4547219==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed If this file is the one that you are working with there are some things that you may want to understand. First is that the 741 and 1450 are very popular operational amps they are by no means instrument quality devices. They experience offset drift heat changes and are also relatively noisy devices. It is quite possible that the noise that you measure is a result of a trashy input. 1/f noise should be understood before it is dismissed. This is a result of the sum of the actions of individual electron in a totally random movement at the depletion region of an semiconductor. Statistical math will show that the subtle net effect of the random events will appear as small fluctuations that are equal in magnitude and reduce as the examination period increases. (a function of "f") internal gain of a bipolar transistor device varies by a function of 1/f^2 the net result is 1/f and is measurable and provable with any transistor amplifier. Try looking at some diagrams for "White noise generator" and "Pink noise generator" Also it is important (but not mentioned in the article) to avoid.. Dielectric compounds that my be active. (there are no off the shelf caps that do not have an active dielectric) I might recommend a vacuum. Also be aware that monolithic (single layer) capacitors are subject to acoustical. radio, and radiological noise. Try using vacuum tube or MOSFET amplifiers. and a couple of aluminum pltes suspended inside a vacuum. If you still have noise then you may have done it.... I think I will start building one... still looks like fun.... At 08:44 AM 8/21/00 -0500, you wrote: >Is this the file? > >http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/grav3.txt > > >At 11:44 PM 8/20/00 -0400, you wrote: >> >Hi all, >> >for a while I have been an avid coiler, but have now decided to embark upon >>the exploration of more subtle energies. So I have turned away from the >>scene of high voltage currents to the realm of strange electronics. >>Naturally my first port of call was Hodowanec's work on gravity wave >>detectors. >> >I have built the circuit on breadboard to see what exactly it did, but may >>build a "fixed" version on strip-board; full details of the circuit can be >>fond in the file grav3.html, otherwise I'll send a pcx file of the circuit >>to anybody who is interested. Anyway, the results. >> >>Hi Gavin, >> >>Is this grav3.html file on a website somewhere? I don't see any URL, and >>didn't get an attachment. If you sent an attachment that was too large to >>the group, it may have been filtered out. >> >>thanks, >> >>Knuke >>Michael T. Huffman >>Huffman Technology Company >>1121 Dustin Drive >>The Villages, Florida 32159 >>(352)259-1276 >>knuke@LCIA.COM >>http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm --=====================_4547219==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" If this file is the one that you are working with there are some things that you may want to understand.   First is that the 741 and 1450 are very popular operational amps they are by no means instrument quality devices.  They experience offset drift heat changes and are also relatively noisy devices.

It is quite possible that the noise that you measure is a result of a trashy input.
1/f noise should be understood before it is dismissed.  This is a result of the sum of the actions of individual electron in a totally random movement at the depletion region of an semiconductor.  Statistical math will show that the subtle net effect of the random events will appear as small fluctuations that are equal in magnitude and reduce as the examination period increases.  (a function of "f") internal gain of a bipolar transistor device varies by a function of 1/f^2   

the net result is 1/f and is measurable and provable with any transistor amplifier.

Try looking at some diagrams for "White noise generator" and "Pink noise generator"

Also it is important (but not mentioned in the article) to avoid..
Dielectric compounds that my be active.  (there are no off the shelf caps that do not have
an active dielectric)  I might recommend a vacuum.

Also be aware that monolithic  (single layer) capacitors are subject to acoustical. radio, and radiological noise.

Try using vacuum tube or MOSFET amplifiers. and a couple of aluminum pltes suspended inside a vacuum.  If you still have noise then you may have done it....

I think I will start building one...    still looks like fun....



At 08:44 AM 8/21/00 -0500, you wrote:
Is this the file?

http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/grav3.txt


At 11:44 PM 8/20/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>for a while I have been an avid coiler, but have now decided to embark upon
the exploration of more subtle energies. So I have turned away from the
scene of high voltage currents to the realm of strange electronics.
Naturally my first port of call was Hodowanec's work on gravity wave detectors.
>I have built the circuit on breadboard to see what exactly it did, but may
build a "fixed" version on strip-board; full details of the circuit can be
fond in the file grav3.html, otherwise I'll send a pcx file of the circuit
to anybody who is interested. Anyway, the results.

Hi Gavin,

Is this grav3.html file on a website somewhere?  I don't see any URL, and
didn't get an attachment.  If you sent an attachment that was too large to
the group, it may have been filtered out.

thanks,

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm
--=====================_4547219==_.ALT-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 09:02:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA25460; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 09:01:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 09:01:48 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <6d.8517a32.26d2ac41@aol.com> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:01:05 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"7Tj-W1.0.bD6.i9Lev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16502 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Looking for someone Hi all, Does anyone on the lists know Carl Walters, of southern California? We were posting back and forth for a period and he just stopped. I was wondering if he was ill or something? His screen name is Esopfables. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 11:01:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA11766; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:00:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:00:51 -0700 Message-ID: <000301c00b99$615d9a40$958a01d4@default> From: "Gavin" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:35:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"wj81Q2.0.it2.JvMev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16504 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Zack, thanks for that information, it's sort of set where I'll go next with it. I'll build a circuit with switchable sensing capacitors (may even include a 220nF disc ceramic array). I'm also thinking of redesigning the circuit using better grade op-amps and perhaps some filtering, but that will be later. It's interesting that the grav3.html file did not mention the microwave detection being specifically associated with the 220nF capacitor. I'll have to get my lap top out with it's data-logging software to keep a record of variations over a period of several hours. As for periods of several months I'll have to think of something else. Regards, Gavin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zack Widup" To: "FG" Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 5:30 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit > On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Gavin wrote: > > > Hi all, > > for a while I have been an avid coiler, but have now decided to embark > > upon the exploration of more subtle energies. So I have turned away from > > the scene of high voltage currents to the realm of strange electronics. > > Naturally my first port of call was Hodowanec's work on gravity wave > > detectors. > > I have built the circuit on breadboard to see what exactly it did, but > > may build a "fixed" version on strip-board; full details of the circuit > > can be fond in the file grav3.html, otherwise I'll send a pcx file of > > the circuit to anybody who is interested. Anyway, the results. > > > > I first built the simple circuit but found it rather insufficient so I > > moved on to building the "improved circuit" as described in the grav3 > > file, this circuit gave better results due to greater total gain. > > > > Now, in the circuit diagram the value of sensing capacitor was stated > > to be 0.22, this could mean 220nF or 220pF, most likely 220nF > > considering standard notation. However, due to some of the frequencies > > stated in the file, I decided that 220pF was more likely.......I was > > wrong; I think the term is "ego-driven modifications"; 220nF works just > > fine! > > > > When the original article appeared in Radio-Electronics magazine, I built > the circuit exactly as described there. There was a follow-up article > which used a 0.22 uF (220 nF) capacitor as a radar detector circuit for > police radars, but I never could get mine to detect radar signals. > > In the original article, larger values of capacitance were recommended for > "gravity-wave" detection. I think I tried various values between 10 and > 4700 uF and got different results with different values. I found that the > larger capacitance values seemed to tune to something which didn't change > as rapidly and required a chart recorder to really see anything going on. > The smaller values of capacitance (10 to 47 uF) produced various audio > outputs. > > I'd like to mention that you have to monitor the output for a longish > period of time to really observe the changes. Sometimes the output would > be relatively stable with very minor fluctuations for weeks; then there > would be several days of wild fluctuations and eerie "howls"; then it > would settle down again for weeks. I have no idea what I was really > listening to - by Hodowanec's cosmology, it could've been a sun going nova > across the galaxy or even farther away. > > Zack > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 11:02:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA11736; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:00:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:00:48 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c00b99$602f7a80$958a01d4@default> From: "Gavin" To: References: <200008210344.XAA10568@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:20:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"jFPWa1.0.Ft2.EvMev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16503 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Michael, sorry about that, you can find the file on Bill's Weird Science page under "Not Your Usual Construction Project." Also the same file can be found on Keelynet, just use the search engine with the key word Hodowanec I will try and find the actual URL and post it later. Regards Gavin - ---- Original Message ----- From: "Michael T Huffman" To: Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 4:44 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit > >Hi all, > >for a while I have been an avid coiler, but have now decided to embark upon > the exploration of more subtle energies. So I have turned away from the > scene of high voltage currents to the realm of strange electronics. > Naturally my first port of call was Hodowanec's work on gravity wave detectors. > >I have built the circuit on breadboard to see what exactly it did, but may > build a "fixed" version on strip-board; full details of the circuit can be > fond in the file grav3.html, otherwise I'll send a pcx file of the circuit > to anybody who is interested. Anyway, the results. > > Hi Gavin, > > Is this grav3.html file on a website somewhere? I don't see any URL, and > didn't get an attachment. If you sent an attachment that was too large to > the group, it may have been filtered out. > > thanks, > > Knuke > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > The Villages, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke@LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 11:42:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA28688; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:41:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:41:09 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000821084951.0095b5f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200008210344.XAA10568@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <4.2.0.58.20000821084951.0095b5f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:40:53 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"jhg9v1.0.907.5VNev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16505 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Charles - At 9:27 AM -0500 8/21/00, Charles Ford wrote: >It is quite possible that the noise that you measure is a result of >a trashy input. >1/f noise should be understood before it is dismissed. This is a >result of the sum of the actions of individual electron in a totally >random movement at the depletion region of an semiconductor. >Statistical math will show that the subtle net effect of the random >events will appear as small fluctuations that are equal in magnitude >and reduce as the examination period increases. (a function of "f") >internal gain of a bipolar transistor device varies by a function of >1/f^2 This seems to be the main question about these things: is the 1/f noise heard in these devices just the thermal and/or electrical noise from the components or is it 'dielectric waves' or 'gravity waves' from some distant source like exploding stars? One way to determine the answer is to construct a pair of devices and see if the signals are similar enough to constitute a single signal from a source remote to both devices. When I tried this, I couldn't get two devices tuned the same and stable enough to get a good read, and only saw similarities that were obviously just radio interference (when I amplified and played this originally mysterious signal over a speaker, I heard the "aliens" telling me that good deals were to be had right now at Honolulu Ford). - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 12:55:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25716; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:54:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:54:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:54:21 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: More gravcap msgs from cliff L. In-Reply-To: <399C9260.6EA84089@enter.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"L3ebu1.0.jH6.mZOev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16506 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, David Rosignoli wrote: > Zonkers! I just read your updated file on Cliff L. Wow! 36lbs. of > thrust, even inside a vacuum chamber! Shades of De Aquino's ELF device, > but with better performance. At http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwarp.html > , do the dates next to the links mean when that file was originally > posted? Yep, but I added more later. > I was surprised to see an ongoing correspondance for months. > Well, I'm glad some more info. was posted on some details of the power > supply arrangement. > > Bill, what ever happened to your GC? Did you have any success with it? No progress on making tin plates. I'm in the middle of a divorce! Not the nasty kind, fortunately. But everything is on hold for many months. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 13:08:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA00835; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:07:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:07:42 -0700 From: "David Rosignoli" Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Reply-to: drdaveor@enter.net To: Rick Monteverde , freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-CC-Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:07:33 +400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.1t, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <39a18c05.6d64.0@enter.net> X-User-Info: 192.91.146.34 Resent-Message-ID: <"T6yzo1.0.yC.DmOev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16507 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >One way to determine the answer is to construct a pair of devices and >see if the signals are similar enough to constitute a single signal >from a source remote to both devices. When I tried this, I couldn't >get two devices tuned the same and stable enough to get a good read, >and only saw similarities that were obviously just radio interference >(when I amplified and played this originally mysterious signal over a >speaker, I heard the "aliens" telling me that good deals were to be >had right now at Honolulu Ford). This sounds like a worth-while experiment that should be replicated. Did you try shielding your circuits inside 2 separate metal boxes, that were in close proximity? That should block most extraneous RF signals. Make sure it's battery operated. You don't want any 60Hz effects. I have not myself replicated this circuit, but am not ready to toss out the results just yet since TT Brown did extensive experiments with his petro-voltaics (which are slightly different from Hodowanec's circuits, but nonetheless relevant). If you go to http://www.soteria.com/ to the Brown family website, you can find some of his articles on his petrovoltaic results. Rex Research sells a good Infolios on his petrovoltaics that is ~0.5" thick, full of strip chart data of his results extending over a long period of time in various places, and under various measurement conditions. -David Rosignoli From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 13:13:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02425; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:12:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:12:07 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:11:51 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <39a18bca.1479322@mail.midiowa.net> References: <200008210344.XAA10568@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <4.2.0.58.20000821084951.0095b5f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA02348 Resent-Message-ID: <"5LjU-1.0.ib.JqOev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16508 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:40:53 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >This seems to be the main question about these things: is the 1/f >noise heard in these devices just the thermal and/or electrical noise >from the components or is it 'dielectric waves' or 'gravity waves' >from some distant source like exploding stars? The noise from most of the old circuits (such as the 741, which has been around for 30 years) is random thermal noise. The noise changes as it's temperature changes. (The same is true for vacuum tubes, where the hot cathode produces microamp changes in current which results in noise when amplified.) Newer op-amp designs use complementary (bucking) circuits on the same substrate to reduce the amount of noise (external and thermal effects are markedly reduced, but atomic level variations aren't). -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 13:15:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA05193; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:15:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:15:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:15:04 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ondTb.0.yG1.DtOev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16509 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Rick Monteverde wrote: > This seems to be the main question about these things: is the 1/f > noise heard in these devices just the thermal and/or electrical noise > from the components or is it 'dielectric waves' or 'gravity waves' > from some distant source like exploding stars? In some systems, 1/f effects are caused by Chaos, since fractal structures have geometry which repeats at 1/f scale. About circuit noise: if we place a device inside heavy shielding yet the noise continues, then mainstream physics tells us that the noise is created locally inside the device. Fringe science tells us to suspect that the heavy shielding is transparent to certain energy fluxes which are not part of conventional science. So, which one is correct? If the noise is created locally within the circuit components, and if voltage, temperature, etc., are held constant, then the noise should remain constant forever. If the noise should change over time, then that is evidence that the conventional view is wrong and the "fringe-science" view is right. > One way to determine the answer is to construct a pair of devices and > see if the signals are similar enough to constitute a single signal > from a source remote to both devices. Yes! On another topic: I built the "radar detector" from a kit, and it did work. It was basically a (ceramic?) capacitor with 1/2" leads connected as part of an op-amp oscillator. I don't know if the RF affected the capacitor dielectric, or if it was simply being rectified by overdriving the op-amp input transistors. I hung it from my rear-view mirror and adjusted it for a constant whistle. After a few days of commuting to work, the device made obvious squealing noises, and within a few seconds I passed a state trooper vehicle on the side of the highway with a radar unit attached to the side window. I guess the thing works! ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 13:20:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08863; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:19:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:19:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:19:43 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"E3_BE2.0.BA2.ZxOev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16510 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Latest grav-cap msg See below... ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, clifford l wrote: > At present I am not working on the GC as the device has been given to > another person that has contacted me some time ago. He has a PHd in > physics and is working on a theory on what makes this tick. His lab is > in California at JPL and working at odd hours at night as to not get > anyone involved. We have found some troubles with using a VDG as a power > source cause of it was making micro punctures in the mylar and yet did > not show a short but made the GC fail. We are using a 6 volt spark coil > purchased in a auto supply store for $8.00 and controlling the DC > voltages from 0.5KV to 28KV, where 1.8KV the GC starts to react. > Anyone who wants this thing, I and some colleagues will have a demo > kit/plans available on the net, hopefully by first of next year. We are > not planning to sell this for money due to some implication from a > supposedly patent, that we are still unable to find. Sorry about that, > but first come.... ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 13:35:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA17093; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:34:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:34:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:34:13 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"T4Jo03.0.TA4.E9Pev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16511 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Breakthrough Propulsion Physics (BPP) (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:04:04 -0500 From: "Marc G. Millis" To: Subject: Breakthrough Propulsion Physics (BPP) For those who are interested in what's next for the NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics (BPP) Project and what the project is doing to keep up with the latest round of claims (such as the one recently sent to you), here's WHAT'S NEXT A review of all tasks supported by the BPP project will occur in a session at the July 2001 Joint Propulsion Conference (JPC): 37th AIAA/ASME/SAE/ASEE Joint Propulsion Conference Salt Lake City, Utah 08 to 11, July 2001 Other papers about BPP related research results will also be solicited for this conference session. This CALL FOR PAPERS will likely go out in the fall of 2000. Contrary to prior years, I am not having BPP sessions at the next STAIF conference. Rather than devoting my limited resources to another round of paper reviews, I am focusing my attention on setting up the means to support more research. Due to the larger than expected number of viable research candidates and the positive response to the BPP Project in general, the BPP Project plans and resources are under revision. Currently, the following elements are being considered for addition to the BPP: - BPP Research Consortium of NASA, Academic, and Industry Advisors. - Internet Database with research results. - Internet proposal / idea submission mechanism. The next CALL FOR RESEARCH PROPOSALS is currently being planned. It is estimated that this call might go out around July of 2001 and will have a 3-month response window. In addition to having another formal solicitation in the summer of 2001, I am adapting the BPP solicitation and review process to the internet to handle submissions and reviews on a continuous, distributed basis. In this way, spurious proposals can be compared to those that are already in the queue so that the best, rather than the most opportunistic, get support. Furthermore, to prevent duplications of research, I am also setting up a database of research results and to list those topics that are currently under investigation. In this way, prospective researchers or supporters can check to see if certain approaches have already been investigated. I've encountered a number of frustrating situations where researchers have conducted tests without publishing the results, only to have that same dead-end approach get another round of support from someone else - again without publishing the null results. If you are doing any research related to BPP, I implore you to publish the results so that other researchers can learn from your experiences. The 2001 JPC is an appropriate venue. Furthermore, I implore you to ensure that all reports are done in the most legitimate manner - no sensationalism and no jumping to conclusions. This topic is still far enough off the beaten path so that exemplary behavior is required for it to be taken seriously. Thank you for your consideration, Marc ------------------------ Marc G. Millis Project Manager, NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Project NASA John H. Glenn Research Center at Lewis Field 21000 Brookpark Rd., MS 86-2 Cleveland, OH 44135-3191 Voice (216) 977-7535 Fax (216) 977-7545 Marc.G.Millis@GRC.NASA.gov Breakthrough Propulsion Physics PROJECT site: http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/bpp/ PUBLIC EDUCATION "Warp Drive, When?" site: http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/PAO/warp.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 13:47:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA25047; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:46:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:46:49 -0700 Message-ID: <005301c00bb0$92740300$ebd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy 1 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:44:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01C00B8F.0ABA8A40" Resent-Message-ID: <"bn-Ge.0.876.vKPev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16512 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C00B8F.0ABA8A40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_004C_01C00B8F.0ABA8A40" ------=_NextPart_001_004C_01C00B8F.0ABA8A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You DO realize there are explanations for these things, don't you. Like = the rock falling down the hill, potential energy to kinetic (how it got = there isn't the point, the point is...it got there). I'm not trying to = insult you, I just wanted to make sure that you know these things. :-) -----Original Message----- From: Enki To: Michael S. Johnston Date: Sunday, August 20, 2000 12:12 AM Subject: [FG]: Free Energy 1 Hi All,=20 I thought I would start with a definition of free energy. To me = that means being able to get more energy out of a system than what you = have to put into it. I have seen people really wrestle with that = concept. For example, what about a rock rolling down a hill? Or how = about a stick of dynamite? Or maybe a nuclear explosion/reactor? Do you = get more energy out of all of those things than what you put into them? = Yes, no doubt about it. Are any of these things either "overunity" or = "Free Energy"? No. Very simple. No. No matter how you slice them they = are not. In all of these cases, MORE potential energy exists than what = you extract from them. Also you can only get then to go in one = direction. Look at the rock for example, it gives you a lot of power = going down the hill but it is going to take you even more power to get = it back up to the top of the hill again to repeat your cycle. = Understand?=20 I got into this whole thing because I thought it would be fun to = find a way to use the H2 in water as a fuel. In my brief involvement I = have seen many ideas advanced (and gadgets sold) which purported to = provide free energy but have yet to see any of them get consistently = positive reviews or independent confirmation of their validity. So it = remains a challenge. I thought it would be nice to give you all a real, = simple free energy device that you could experiment with and that = wouldn't be too pricey to build or too complex (or dangerous) for the = average 12 year old to understand. So that is what I am going to try to = do tonight.=20 The device, of course, involves water (enki=3Dlord of the waters). = If you are interested I hope you enjoy it. If not, delete it.=20 First I would like to turn your attention to a simple experiment = which I am sure that you are all familiar with. Take a drinking glass = and fill it most of the way with water. Next invert it into a shallow = pan of water. What happens? The water hangs suspended inside the glass, = defying gravity.=20 =20 Want anti-gravity in your home, there it is. Why does the water = hang inside the glass like that? Because if it fell it would cause the = air above it to become so low in pressure that it would create a vacuum. = So the air, in it's attempt to stay at standard pressure has enough = attractive force to hold the water in place against the force of = gravity. You have done the work once and created a self perpetuating = system in which the water will stay in that place indefinitely haven't = you? If nothing changes in the system it would last indefinitely, but = eventually enough water would evaporate from the pan so that air could = be drawn up into the glass and the water would fall. Still though do you = see the beauty of this? How much energy is required to hold a certain = quantity of water in the air like that? Yet here it is, free, for a one = time investment.=20 Ok, so that is a static system, sort of the the rock on the top of = the hill. You can't get any useful energy out of it without having = something moving to do the work right? And if you drop the water to get = what energy you can out of it you have losses but can get something. = Unfortunately you also have to expend more energy to get the water back = up into the glass again if you want to continue the cycle with it right? = Undoubtedly this system, as depicted above, can't generate any more = power than what you put into it and is good for a conversation piece at = best. Or is it?=20 What if you tried to get some energy out of it? What would be the = best way to do it? I like a water wheel myself. Consider the state of = the water within the glass. It's water. It's not thinned out like the = air above it. I did this experiment and put a small tube into the side = of the glass just below the surface of the water near the top of the = glass. It isn't hard at all to get water to flow out of that tube. It is = at whatever height you have drawn it to so it doesn't have to be pumped = "up" to the outlet. It is already there. So it requires much less effort = to pump water, from just below the surface, straight OUT of a container = than it does to pump water UP from a depth doesn't it? The only drawback = is that you would have to use a pump which didn't let air back into the = container while you were pumping it out. As you pump it out new water = circulates into the container from the pan in the bottom.=20 =20 What if you made the tank 30' tall? What if you kept the water = level in it at 25'? Then had a 4' pool in the pan at the bottom?=20 As you pumped the water out of the TOP of the tank it could fall 20' = over a water wheel which is connected to a generator. A 20' water wheel = can generate a LOT of power, depending on the water flow and the size of = the generator which is attached to it. After all, what is a water wheel = but a set of levers? Remember you aren't pumping the water UP 20' = either. The air is holding it there for you already, you are only = supplying the energy to pump it OUT at the desired rate. And again, once = the water turns the wheel it falls back into the pan where it eventually = is drawn into the bottom of the container again..... Maybe this is how = Tesla figured to turn a water wheel with water the wheel pumped to it's = top. So there, maybe you are starting to understand. This isn't the free = energy device I was talking about, that is still to come. This is a = started which may be able to do the job on it's own. The next ones are = even better. keep reading.=20 MJ=20 ------=_NextPart_001_004C_01C00B8F.0ABA8A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You DO realize there are explanations for these = things, don't=20 you. Like the rock falling down the hill, potential energy to kinetic = (how it=20 got there isn't the point, the point is...it got there). I'm not trying = to=20 insult you, I just wanted to make sure that you know these things.=20 :-)
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Enki <enki@csrlink.net>
To: = Michael=20 S. Johnston <H2OPower@listbot.com>
D= ate:=20 Sunday, August 20, 2000 12:12 AM
Subject: [FG]: Free = Energy=20 1

Hi All,
   I thought I would start = with a=20 definition of free energy. To me that means being able to get more = energy out=20 of a system than what you have to put into it. I have seen people = really=20 wrestle with that concept. For example, what about a rock rolling down = a hill?=20 Or how about a stick of dynamite? Or maybe a nuclear = explosion/reactor? Do you=20 get more energy out of all of those things than what you put into = them? Yes,=20 no doubt about it. Are any of these things either "overunity" or "Free = Energy"? No. Very simple. No. No matter how you slice them they are = not. In=20 all of these cases, MORE potential energy exists than what you extract = from=20 them. Also you can only get then to go in one direction. Look at the = rock for=20 example, it gives you a lot of power going down the hill but it is = going to=20 take you even more power to get it back up to the top of the hill = again to=20 repeat your cycle. Understand?
   I got into this whole = thing=20 because I thought it would be fun to find a way to use the H2 in water = as a=20 fuel. In my brief involvement I have seen many ideas advanced (and = gadgets=20 sold) which purported to provide free energy but have yet to see any = of them=20 get consistently positive reviews or independent confirmation of their = validity. So it remains a challenge. I thought it would be nice to = give you=20 all a real, simple free energy device that you could experiment with = and that=20 wouldn't be too pricey to build or too complex (or dangerous) for the = average=20 12 year old to understand. So that is what I am going to try to do = tonight.=20
   The device, of course, involves water (enki=3Dlord of = the=20 waters). If you are interested I hope you enjoy it. If not, delete it. =
   First I would like to turn your attention to a simple = experiment which I am sure that you are all familiar with. Take a = drinking=20 glass and fill it most of the way with water. Next invert it into a = shallow=20 pan of water. What happens? The water hangs suspended inside the = glass,=20 defying gravity.
=
  =20 Want anti-gravity in your home, there it is. Why does the water hang = inside=20 the glass like that? Because if it fell it would cause the air above = it to=20 become so low in pressure that it would create a vacuum. So the air, = in it's=20 attempt to stay at standard pressure has enough attractive force to = hold the=20 water in place against the force of gravity. You have done the work = once and=20 created a self perpetuating system in which the water will stay in = that place=20 indefinitely haven't you? If nothing changes in the system it would = last=20 indefinitely, but eventually enough water would evaporate from the pan = so that=20 air could be drawn up into the glass and the water would fall. Still = though do=20 you see the beauty of this? How much energy is required to hold a = certain=20 quantity of water in the air like that? Yet here it is, free, for a = one time=20 investment.
   Ok, so that is a static system, sort of = the the=20 rock on the top of the hill. You can't get any useful energy out of it = without=20 having something moving to do the work right? And if you drop the = water to get=20 what energy you can out of it you have losses but can get something.=20 Unfortunately you also have to expend more energy to get the water = back up=20 into the glass again if you want to continue the cycle with it right?=20 Undoubtedly this system, as depicted above, can't generate any more = power than=20 what you put into it and is good for a conversation piece at best. Or = is it?=20
   What if you tried to get some energy out of it? What = would be=20 the best way to do it? I like a water wheel myself. Consider the state = of the=20 water within the glass. It's water. It's not thinned out like the air = above=20 it. I did this experiment and put a small tube into the side of the = glass just=20 below the surface of the water near the top of the glass. It isn't = hard at all=20 to get water to flow out of that tube. It is at whatever height you = have drawn=20 it to so it doesn't have to be pumped "up" to the outlet. It is = already there.=20 So it requires much less effort to pump water, from just below the = surface,=20 straight OUT of a container than it does to pump water UP from a depth = doesn't=20 it? The only drawback is that you would have to use a pump which = didn't let=20 air back into the container while you were pumping it out. As you pump = it out=20 new water circulates into the container from the pan in the bottom. =
=20
   What if you made the tank 30' tall? What if you kept = the=20 water level in it at 25'? Then had a 4' pool in the pan at the bottom? =
As=20 you pumped the water out of the TOP of the tank it could fall 20' over = a water=20 wheel which is connected to a generator. A 20' water wheel can = generate a LOT=20 of power, depending on the water flow and the size of the generator = which is=20 attached to it. After all, what is a water wheel but a set of levers? = Remember=20 you aren't pumping the water UP 20' either. The air is holding it = there for=20 you already, you are only supplying the energy to pump it OUT at the = desired=20 rate. And again, once the water turns the wheel it falls back into the = pan=20 where it eventually is drawn into the bottom of the container = again..... Maybe=20 this is how Tesla figured to turn a water wheel with water the wheel = pumped to=20 it's top. So there, maybe you are starting to understand. This isn't = the free=20 energy device I was talking about, that is still to come. This is a = started=20 which may be able to do the job on it's own. The next ones are even = better.=20 keep reading.
MJ ------=_NextPart_001_004C_01C00B8F.0ABA8A40-- ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C00B8F.0ABA8A40 Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <003f01c00bb0$91b239a0$ebd666ce@default> /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDACAWGBwYFCAcGhwkIiAmMFA0MCwsMGJGSjpQdGZ6eHJm cG6AkLicgIiuim5woNqirr7EztDOfJri8uDI8LjKzsb/2wBDASIkJDAqMF40NF7GhHCExsbGxsbG xsbGxsbGxsbGxsbGxsbGxsbGxsbGxsbGxsbGxsbGxsbGxsbGxsbGxsbGxsb/wAARCAC+AL8DASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 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Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26404; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:47:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:47:59 -0700 Message-ID: <006401c00bb0$bf6e4b40$ebd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: TAKE ME OFF YOUR LIST PLEASE Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:45:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"rUres3.0.TS6.-LPev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16513 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com seems like this happens a lot... -----Original Message----- From: William Beaty To: dallas Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, August 20, 2000 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: TAKE ME OFF YOUR LIST PLEASE > >Subscribers add themselves and remove themselves. Did you not receive the >following message when you subscribed? > >((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) >William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website >billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com >EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science >Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > > > > WARNING: SAVE THIS MESSAGE, IT CONTAINS INSTRUCTIONS FOR UNSUBSCRIBING > > WARNING: READ THE RULES BEFORE USING FREENRG-L ! ! ! > >************************************************************************* > Welcome to FREENRG-L >************************************************************************* > Created: Sept. 1995 > >FREENRG-L is for the discussion of experiments and devices which exhibit >anomalous energy production (or consumption!), or which violate >currently-accepted physics theory. This includes: > > * "Overunity" > * Electrogravity & inertia violation > * Scalar Electromagnetism > * Psi phenomena and Paranormal > * Relativity violation > * Unusual Scientific Instruments > >...and any similar topics which the regular users consider interesting >(ask us!) The discussion is limited to experimentalism. Or theory-led >experiments. Or theoretical implications of experiments. This is not a >forum for all those controversial physics theories being ignored by >mainstream science. But if your theory leads directly to interesting, >testable, real-world phenomena, then by all means discuss the experimental >possibilites. If your experiments reveal anomalies not predicted by ANY >theory, definitely jump right in and discuss your findings. Also it's >very acceptable to publish theoretical work on a web page and announce its >presence here. > >Message archive on www - - - http://www.escribe.com/science/freenrg/ >Webpage & txt archive - - - - http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html >Send subscribe/unsubscribe commands to - - freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com >Send messages to - - - - - - - - - - - - - freenrg-L@eskimo.com >Digest - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com >List owner - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - billb@eskimo.com >Inspired by - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Jerry Decker's KEELYNET BBS > www.keelynet.com > 214-324-3501 (TX, usa) > >************************************************************************* >* TO SUBSCRIBE: * >* Send a blank email message to freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com with the * >* word "subscribe" in the SUBJECT: line. No quotes around * >* "subscribe," of course. You will receive a "welcome" message. * >* Once subscribed, send your email to freenrg-L@eskimo.com. * >* * >* * >* TO UNSUBSCRIBE: * >* Send a blank email message to freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com with the * >* word "unsubscribe" in the SUBJECT: line. No quotes around * >* "unsubscribe," of course. * >* * >************************************************************************* > >FREENRG-L RULES ( WARNING! PLEASE READ! ) > > 1. NO FLAMEWARS: use private email for impolite messages. If your > message is the least bit angry, hostile, or apt to be insulting, do > not send it to freenrg-L. Instead, use private email to send it > directly to your target. VIOLATORS RISK IMMEDIATE UNSUBSCRIPTION. > If someone insults you, contact the moderator. See "Flamewars" below > for details. > >2. HEAVY ON EXPERIMENTALISM. Or theory-led experiments. Or theoretical > implications of actual experiments. This is not a forum for all those > controversial physics theories being ignored by mainstream science. But > if your theory leads directly to interesting, testable, real-world > phenomena, then by all means discuss the experimental possibilites. If > your experiments reveal anomalies not predicted by ANY theory, > definitely jump right in and discuss your findings. Also it's very > acceptable to publish theoretical work on a web page and announce its > presence here. > >3. NO SNEERING. Ridicule, belittling, debunkery and believer/skeptic > flamewars are banned. Let's just say that freenrg-l is a big nasty > nest of "true believers" (having maybe a bit of rational skepticism,) > and let the skeptics leave in disgust. The tone should be one of > legitimate disagreements and respectful debate. > >4. LIMIT YOUR MESSAGE SIZE. Small email files please. The limit is set to > 40K right now, those exceeding the limit will be bounced back to you. > The eskimo.com server cannot handle sending a 200K file to hundreds of > subscribers (and there are also hundreds of other lists on eskimo.) > Larger diagrams and graphics can be mailed directly to interested > parties. Or, contact me and we can place them on the FREENRG-L > webpage for viewing by the group. > >5. IN REPLIES, DON'T QUOTE THE MESSAGE. Well, it's OK to include snippets > and chunks. However, please don't include the ENTIRE message in your > reply. It fills the archives with useless junk, and overloads all of > our inboxes. The entire message should only be included if: > (A) you are replying to a message that is several days old, or > (B) you are replying point-by-point to many parts of a message. > >6. NO SPAMMERS. "Spam" email advertizing will not be tolerated. While not > illegal yet, widecasting of junk email ads to listserv sites is against > the Unwritten Rules of the Internet. Anyone who spams freenrg-l > with off-topic advertizing will be referred to the Internet Vigilante > Justice team. ;) Occasional on-topic advertizing by regular > freenrg-l users is acceptable. Used equipment ads yes, get rich > quick schemes no. > >************************************************************************* > > THE AUTOMATIC UN-SUBSCRIBER > > If your email account bounces mail for several days continuously, > you will be automatically unsubscribed from freenrg-L. This is done > to prevent mail loops and excessive bounced-mail error messages. > When the Unsubscriber takes you out, it sends a message notifying you > that this has happened. Unfortunately, this warning message usually > bounces too, so you won't know why Freenrg-L has suddenly gone dead. If > you suspect that you've been automatically unsubscribed, simply > re-subscribe yourself. Any missing messages can be found at the > freenrg-L webpage, in the archive. And complain to your internet > provider that their system was bouncing mail back to the sender! > >************************************************************************** > > FREENRG-L DIGEST MODE > > A "digest" mode now exists for freenrg-L. The digest is actually a > separate email list called freenrg-digest@eskimo.com. To use it, > subscribe to the digest, then when you start receiving digest messages, > unsubscribe yourself from the normal list. To converse with list > users, send your messages to freenrg-L@eskimo.com, and *not* to > freenrg-digest. The subscribe/unsubscribe commands are the same > as for freenrg-l, but the address for commands is: > > freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com > > The digest will be sent out every two days, or when the collected > messages pass a size threshold of 40K, whichever comes first. > >******************************************************************** > > FLAMEWARS > > Email psychology has an interesting effect: it breeds long outbursts > of angry messages between two or more parties. To prevent these > "flamewars", I must prohibit all impolite messages. This has some > consequences. For example, if someone attacks you or insults you, > you must abandon any hope of defending yourself in front of the > group. Instead, defend yourself via private messages. Or, if someone > blatantly violates the forum rules, you may NOT use the list to > publicly embarrass them or attack them for their transgressions. > Complain to the violator privately, or contact the moderator instead. > > "Politeness" and "insult" of course are in the eye of the beholder. I > ask that people try not to take insult. But more importantly, I DEMAND > that all users try to craft their messages so that the RECIPIENT won't > take insult. Any complaints should be totally polite, respectful, > emotionless, and non-accusatory, with no 'namecalling' whatsoever. > Often this is impossible to do. The solution is very, VERY simple: > > SEND YOUR MESSAGE DIRECTLY TO YOUR OPPONENT, NOT TO FREENRG-L > > When a flamewar breaks out, participants usually blame a particular > person for causing it, and feel justified in retaliating. However, > flamewars are caused by participants, and in order to halt the endless > cycle of hostile counterattacks, I must prohibit angry RESPONSES as > well as initial insults. If you catch yourself thinking "well, he/she > started it, I was just defending myself," since you easily find > justification to violate rule #1 of this forum, perhaps you should not > be here. > >Some wisdom regarding flaming... > > "Few people can be happy unless they hate some other person, nation or > creed." - Bertrand Russell > > "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two > opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to > function." - F. Scott Fitzgerald > > Being too ready to defend oneself is more dangerous than being too > ready to admit a mistake." - Sir Karl Popper > > "Truth often suffers more by the heat of its defenders than by the > arguments of its opponents." - anon > > "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you. If you > really make them think, they'll hate you." - D.R.P. Marquis(1878-1937) > >********************************************************************* > >GROWTH OF LIST SUBSCRIBERS > ># of users Date > 1 ....... 09/03/95 > 28 ....... 10/07/95 > 133 ....... 12/03/95 > 153 ....... 12/27/95 > 285 ....... 11/27/96 > 310 ....... 12/06/97 > 316 ........09/13/98 > 298 ....... 12/17/99 > >((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) >William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website >billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb >EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science >Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 14:14:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA16549; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:13:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:13:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:12:55 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SMETp.0.E24.XjPev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16514 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: VDG theory (FWD) see below ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:15:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Foster To: BBeaty@microscan.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Cheap High Voltage? (Van de Graaff principle) I hesitate to disagree with you about this one, you being an electrical engineer and all, with years of experience in electrostatic phenomena, but I must. I believe Michael Faraday would disagree as well, your having more or less ignored the Faraday ice pail effect. > > On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Colin Cain wrote: > > I've been pondering a Pseudo-VDG and the post "Cheap High Voltage" opens > >the door for the question, If I were to take an ionizer, put it in a base, > >run a wire from it up the tube into the metal sphere at the top, would this > >charge the sphere in a manner like or similar to a regular VDG? Will it > >continue to build a charge beyond the output of the ionizer? > The ionizer is simply a DC power supply. You cannot increase its output > voltage by connecting it to the inside of a hollow sphere. You are correct, if you simply run a wire into the sphere which is actually connected to the sphere. But if the DC power supply has enough voltage to arc across a gap between the the wire and the sphere, the Faraday ice pail effect should create an increase in voltage on the exterior of the sphere limited only by the breakdown voltage between the sphere and the nearest ground, or by corona leakage. > Why use a belt at all? > http://www.amasci.com/emotor/vdgdesc.html#why > The belt in the VDG is a capacitive dc voltage amplifier. You place a > voltage between the lower roller and the lower (grounded) comb, and the > belt will pull the opposite charges apart, creating a much higher voltage > on the upper sphere. > > Another way to do the same thing: charge a parallel-plate capacitor to > 500VDC, then pull the plates away from each other, then touch this > wider capacitor to a metal sphere and to ground. Repeat the process many > times, and the voltage on the metal sphere will rise far higher than > 500VDC. The increase in voltage is proportional to the increase in > capacitor plate spacing: if you start at 1mm spacing and increase it to > 10mm, then the capacitor voltage will rise by a factor of 10. (Note that > it takes work to pull the capacitor plates apart. This work is the "power > supply" for the voltage amplifier.) I don't think this is a correct analogy. I think the belt is simply a charge transport device carrying the voltage created when separated from the bottom roller to the inside of the sphere. The belt is just a way of keeping the point of charge separation a reasonable distance from the sphere so it doesn't just short out before a high voltage can accumulate. As a practical matter (actual experiment here!), I have measured the voltage at the point of separation of the belt from the roller and it is quite a bit higher just after separating from the roller than it is at a distance from the roller. In other words, just the opposite of your capacitor plate separation analogy. I attribute this to simple charge dissipation in the air. I have measured this effect with several diffent electrostatic voltmeters, and they all pretty much agree. BTW, I am not a freenrg subsciber, but I look at it frequently on escribe, so if you are inclined to re-post this on freenrg it's OK with me. M. _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 14:17:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21849; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:15:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:15:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39A19B9D.C6D1FA3B@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 00:14:05 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: TAKE ME OFF YOUR LIST PLEASE References: <006401c00bb0$bf6e4b40$ebd666ce@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HEnLY.0.IL5.rlPev"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16515 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ignorance of people about RULE.5 is incredible! I think this is the extreme case can ever occurs. Who not figure out what I am talking about please examine Chris O'Barr's original message. Chris O'Barr wrote: > > seems like this happens a lot... > -----Original Message----- > From: William Beaty > To: dallas > Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Sunday, August 20, 2000 8:31 PM > Subject: Re: [FG]: TAKE ME OFF YOUR LIST PLEASE [snip] > > > >FREENRG-L RULES ( WARNING! PLEASE READ! ) > > [snip] > > > >5. IN REPLIES, DON'T QUOTE THE MESSAGE. Well, it's OK to include snippets > > and chunks. However, please don't include the ENTIRE message in your > > reply. It fills the archives with useless junk, and overloads all of > > our inboxes. The entire message should only be included if: > > (A) you are replying to a message that is several days old, or > > (B) you are replying point-by-point to many parts of a message. > > [snip] hamdi ucar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 14:19:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA22212; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:19:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:19:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:19:01 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: VDG theory Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"MzwCP.0.uQ5.8pPev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16516 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Michael Foster 08/18 12:15 PM wrote: > I hesitate to disagree with you about this one, you being an electrical > engineer and all, with years of experience in electrostatic phenomena, but I > must. I believe Michael Faraday would disagree as well, your having more or > less ignored the Faraday ice pail effect. Nope, the operation of the VDG machine is IN PART based upon the Faraday ice-pail effect, see this diagram: Some VDG-sphere theory http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/icepail.html The issues are straighforward but not usually discussed, so they are probably unfamiliar to most technical people. They involve the conservation of energy as applied to moving-plate capacitors. There was even some controversy in the literature about the correct explanation of VDG machines, specifically about the ice-pail effect versus the capacitor-mulitplier effect, so the issues aren't as cut and dried as they seem. The operation of moving-plate capacitor devices is very different than the "circuit physics" we all know. Electronic circuits normally have unchanging geometry, so the phenomena associated with variable geometry seems strange and unexpected. The central difference: The potential of a floating, charged capacitor plate is not constant. The potential of a single capacitor plate can change as the plate is moved around in an e-field. It certainly will change greatly if we make any attempt to measure it with any sort of voltmeter. On the other hand, the potential of any wire in a conventional electronic circuit is either constant, or it is controlled by variable resistances (such as transistors) which never physically move. The DC power supply cable of our ionizer is always at the same 7KV with respect to ground regardless of the position of the cable. On the other hand, the voltage of a floating, charged cable is not fixed. This has direct bearing on the ice-pail effect. The ice-pail effect only applies to objects which are entirely enclosed by the metal sphere, and which are not part of an active, constant-potential power supply. If most of the surface area of a charged object extends outside the sphere, then the icepail effect does not apply. If the charged object being inserted into the hollow sphere is part of a DC power supply, then we must follow the rules of conventinal "circuit physics." Note that the inner surface of the metal VDG sphere is at the same potential wrt ground as the outer surface. Because the DC power supply is connected to a ground reference outside the sphere, it "sees" the sphere's potential, it "sees" the inner surface of the sphere as having the same potential as the outer surface. A floating capacitor plate is different, and if it is thrust within a hollow metal sphere, a floating capacitor plate cannot "see" the sphere's potential with respect to ground. > > The ionizer is simply a DC power supply. You cannot increase > > its output voltage by connecting it to the inside of a hollow > > sphere. > > You are correct, if you simply run a wire into the sphere which is > actually connected to the sphere. But if the DC power supply has > enough voltage to arc across a gap between the the wire and the sphere, > the Faraday ice pail effect should create an increase in voltage on > the exterior of the sphere limited only by the breakdown voltage > between the sphere and the nearest ground, or by corona leakage. Nope, this violates conservation of energy because the spark-plasma simply becomes a resistor in series with the wire. If the power supply cable is at 7KV and the metal sphere is at 0V wrt ground, a spark will leap the gap, charges will flow, and the potential of the sphere will begin to rise. But when the potential of the sphere reaches the same potential as the power supply cable, then no spark is possible, and the potential of the sphere stops rising at just below 7KV. The same thing happens regardless of whether the cable is held near the inner surface of the sphere or the outer surface. When the potential of the cable and the potential of the sphere are equal, the e-field between the tip of the cable and the surface of the sphere is zero, and even if there are some charges in the air, those charges will not flow. A DC power supply cannot pump charges to a higher potential than the potential of the power supply terminal. To create a higher voltage than 7KV, we can use EM induction (a transformer), we can string some charged capacitors or batteries in series (voltage multiplier), or we can physically push a floating "capacitor plate" around in space (all electrostatic machines.) I think that this covers all possibilities. Hey, this gives us a way to separate "static electricity" from the rest of electronics. Normal electronics involves voltages produced by transformer-based power supplies, series batteries, or voltage multipliers. "Static electricity" involves voltages produced by variable capacitors. > > Another way to do the same thing: charge a parallel-plate capacitor to > > 500VDC, then pull the plates away from each other, then touch this > > wider capacitor to a metal sphere and to ground. Repeat the process many > > times, and the voltage on the metal sphere will rise far higher than > > 500VDC. The increase in voltage is proportional to the increase in > > capacitor plate spacing: if you start at 1mm spacing and increase it to > > 10mm, then the capacitor voltage will rise by a factor of 10. (Note that > > it takes work to pull the capacitor plates apart. This work is the > > "power supply" for the voltage amplifier.) > I don't think this is a correct analogy. You're right. It's only half the story. The other half involves the rising voltage which appears when the charge on the belt is physically driven towards the alike-charged sphere. As the bit of charged rubber belt moves away from the roller, the voltage of the charge wrt ground might rise to 10KV or 100KV. But as the bit of belt is pushed towards the charged sphere, the voltage on the belt AND the voltage on the sphere both rise a bit higher. As a result, the voltage on the sphere grows and grows as long as the belt keeps moving, and as long as the excess charges already on the don't escape from the sphere via corona discharge or sparks. > I think the belt is simply a charge transport device carrying > the voltage created when separated from the bottom roller to the > inside of the sphere. The belt is just a way of keeping the point > of charge separation a reasonable distance from the sphere so > it doesn't just short out before a high voltage can accumulate. Nope, this misses the entire mechanism behind the operation of the VDG. Mechanical energy is constantly injected into the system in order to push the charged belt against the repulsive force from the sphere. This energy is stored in the system, and it appears as a uniformly rising voltage on the metal sphere. Also note: if the belt/roller mechanism creates only 50KV or so, yet the voltage on the sphere rises to half a megavolt, then something else is going on. That something else is constant-current capacitive multiplication coupled with the ice-pail effect. > As a practical matter (actual experiment here!), I have measured > the voltage at the point of separation of the belt from the roller > and it is quite a bit higher just after separating from the roller > than it is at a distance from the roller. Strange. You're right, it might be caused by ion leakage through the air. However, the internal capacitance of the electrostatic voltmeter has a massive effect on this kind of measurement. The capacitance of a small piece of the charged rubber belt is tiny (way below 1pf), while the internal capacitance of an electrostatic voltmeter is many orders of magnitude higher. When you attempt to measure the voltage of the charged belt, you form a capacitive voltage divider, and the added capacitance of the uncharged voltmeter will drag the belt's voltage down by a factor of 100 or 1000. Initially the capacitance of the patch of belt is high when it's near the roller, so the meter's capacitance doesn't drag the voltage down so much, and the reading will be high. Then, as the patch of rubber belt moves upwards, its drastically falling capacitance is swamped out by the relatively huge capacitance of the voltmeter, and the voltage reading will not rise. Example: say that the patch of belt is 1pf when near the roller, and has a potential of 100KV. Introducing a 100pF electrostatic voltmeter will drag the voltage down by a factor of 100, to 1KV. Then, what if the capacitance of the same patch of belt falls to 0.1pF as the patch of belt belt moves far from the roller? It's potential should rise to 1MV. Again introducing the 100pF voltmeter now drags the voltage down by a factor of 1000, to 1KV volts, so the meter tells you that the voltage didn't rise. But if the voltmeter was not present at all, the falling capacitance of the belt would cause the belt's potential to rise quite a bit. If you could take measurments with an "ideal" voltmeter having 0pf internal capacitance, then I think the results would be very different than what you saw. > In other words, just the opposite of your capacitor plate > separation analogy. I attribute this to simple charge dissipation > in the air. I have measured this effect with several diffent > electrostatic voltmeters, and they all pretty much agree. I wonder, what is the usual way to measure the potential of physically tiny charged objects? The capacitance of the measuring device would have to be far smaller than the capacitance of the charged object, otherwise the readings would be totally wrong. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 14:41:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA01128; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:40:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:40:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:40:44 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"aoDp7.0.TH.W7Qev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16517 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: RE: grav-cap kit (fwd) see below ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 15:52:56 -0700 From: clifford l To: William Beaty Subject: RE: grav-cap kit You have a great idea. I have had several requests and I supose the "other guy" has had simular responce. Our GC is somewhat different from the initial plan that seems to have little thrust to the one we last built. Here is one change we made that made a huge difference: The foil plate design now have two diffent sizes. Although the area of the plates are the same, the size for the positive plate is almost twice the size than the negitive plate and yet have the same pole count. I will send you our plans as soon as we get them drafted on the computer. It will show how to make the plates and their dimentions. Thanks for the great idea, I am sure there are failures, simular of what I went through. They are so frustrating when all the work that was put in, either goes up in smoke or does nothing at all. Being the later is much harder to take. -----Original Message----- From: William Beaty [mailto:billb@eskimo.com] Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 1:28 PM To: clifford l Subject: grav-cap kit On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, clifford l wrote: > Anyone who wants this thing, I and some colleagues will have a demo > kit/plans available on the net, hopefully by first of next year. We are > not planning to sell this for money due to some implication from a > supposedly patent, that we are still unable to find. Sorry about that, > but first come.... If it's about the 1930 patent (which nobody has located), I think it's safe to say that the device is in the public domain. Patents only last 17 years (now changed to 20 years recently.) People have been selling plans for the grav-cap device since the early 1990s, although only you and that other guy have ever managed to get the device to produce thrust. I think that the best way to make money on this would be to sell the stamped-out foil and mylar sheets. Because of the labor involved, I bet that many people would want to buy them. On the other hand, people have been burned by hoaxers in the past, so they would first want to see photographs (even videos) of the device in operation before spending any bucks on a kit. That, or wait until one person had success with the kit. Then you'd get lots of requests for the kit! ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 15:33:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA27556; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 15:32:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 15:32:56 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 17:32:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup X-Sender: w9sz@bluestem To: "Dean T. Miller" cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit In-Reply-To: <39a18bca.1479322@mail.midiowa.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"nN_64.0.Ok6.NuQev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16518 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Dean T. Miller wrote: > On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:40:53 -1000, Rick Monteverde > wrote: > > >This seems to be the main question about these things: is the 1/f > >noise heard in these devices just the thermal and/or electrical noise > >from the components or is it 'dielectric waves' or 'gravity waves' > >from some distant source like exploding stars? > > The noise from most of the old circuits (such as the 741, which has > been around for 30 years) is random thermal noise. The noise changes > as it's temperature changes. (The same is true for vacuum tubes, > where the hot cathode produces microamp changes in current which > results in noise when amplified.) > > Newer op-amp designs use complementary (bucking) circuits on the same > substrate to reduce the amount of noise (external and thermal effects > are markedly reduced, but atomic level variations aren't). > > -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) > What I heard with my device was not thermal noise. I wouldn't even call it noise as I know it. Please read the original Hodowanec article. He recommends you USE THE ORIGINAL COMPONENTS SPECIFIED at first to get the feel of what it does, then to vary the parts at your own risk later. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 16:32:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA23841; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:31:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:31:40 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:29:37 -0700 From: "Rick Dunn" To: , Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy 2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_DF874A94.75147CB5" Resent-Message-ID: <"WinsY1.0.Pq5.RlRev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16519 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_DF874A94.75147CB5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The pics show up fine with GroupWise. Rick >>> knuke@lcia.com 08/20/00 12:01AM >>> ><There is a problem with the pic's you send, no one is showing here! >Can you upload them to some server? >(if you need help? to do that, I can do it for you, for free.) >Mehmet.>> Yeah, they are coming up, but the all have the same filename. You have to send them with separate filenames, mime encoded, attachments. Or, you = could put them on a server, which would be the best idea, anyway. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm --=_DF874A94.75147CB5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: HTML
The pics show up fine with GroupWise.
 
Rick

>>> knuke@lcia.com = 08/20/00=20 12:01AM >>>
><<Hi Michael,
>There is a problem = with=20 the pic's you send, no one is showing here!
>Can you upload them to = some=20 server?
>(if you need help? to do that, I can do it for you, for=20 free.)
>Mehmet.>>

Yeah, they are coming up, but the all = have=20 the same filename.  You have to
send them with separate filenames, = mime=20 encoded, attachments.  Or, you could
put them on a server, which = would=20 be the best idea, anyway.

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman=20 Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida=20 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.= htm

--=_DF874A94.75147CB5-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 16:52:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA00910; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:52:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:52:01 -0700 Message-ID: <395154AD.EA53626B@ihug.co.nz> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:50:05 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: VDG theory References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"S9DYO2.0.4E.X2Sev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16520 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com constant current capacitive multiplication? Can you give us more on that? William Beaty wrote: > Michael Foster 08/18 12:15 PM wrote: > > I hesitate to disagree with you about this one, you being an electrical > > engineer and all, with years of experience in electrostatic phenomena, but I > > must. I believe Michael Faraday would disagree as well, your having more or > > less ignored the Faraday ice pail effect. > > Nope, the operation of the VDG machine is IN PART based upon the Faraday > ice-pail effect, see this diagram: > > Some VDG-sphere theory > http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/icepail.html > > The issues are straighforward but not usually discussed, so they > are probably unfamiliar to most technical people. They involve the > conservation of energy as applied to moving-plate capacitors. There > was even some controversy in the literature about the correct > explanation of VDG machines, specifically about the ice-pail effect > versus the capacitor-mulitplier effect, so the issues aren't as cut > and dried as they seem. > > The operation of moving-plate capacitor devices is very different > than the "circuit physics" we all know. Electronic circuits > normally have unchanging geometry, so the phenomena associated > with variable geometry seems strange and unexpected. The central > difference: > > The potential of a floating, charged capacitor plate is > not constant. > > The potential of a single capacitor plate can change as the plate > is moved around in an e-field. It certainly will change greatly > if we make any attempt to measure it with any sort of voltmeter. > On the other hand, the potential of any wire in a conventional > electronic circuit is either constant, or it is controlled by > variable resistances (such as transistors) which never physically > move. The DC power supply cable of our ionizer is always at the > same 7KV with respect to ground regardless of the position of the > cable. On the other hand, the voltage of a floating, charged > cable is not fixed. This has direct bearing on the ice-pail effect. > > The ice-pail effect only applies to objects which are entirely > enclosed by the metal sphere, and which are not part of an active, > constant-potential power supply. If most of the surface area of > a charged object extends outside the sphere, then the icepail effect > does not apply. If the charged object being inserted into the > hollow sphere is part of a DC power supply, then we must follow the > rules of conventinal "circuit physics." > > Note that the inner surface of the metal VDG sphere is at the same > potential wrt ground as the outer surface. Because the DC power > supply is connected to a ground reference outside the sphere, > it "sees" the sphere's potential, it "sees" the inner surface > of the sphere as having the same potential as the outer surface. > > A floating capacitor plate is different, and if it is thrust within > a hollow metal sphere, a floating capacitor plate cannot "see" the > sphere's potential with respect to ground. > > > > The ionizer is simply a DC power supply. You cannot increase > > > its output voltage by connecting it to the inside of a hollow > > > sphere. > > > > You are correct, if you simply run a wire into the sphere which is > > actually connected to the sphere. But if the DC power supply has > > enough voltage to arc across a gap between the the wire and the sphere, > > the Faraday ice pail effect should create an increase in voltage on > > the exterior of the sphere limited only by the breakdown voltage > > between the sphere and the nearest ground, or by corona leakage. > > Nope, this violates conservation of energy because the spark-plasma > simply becomes a resistor in series with the wire. If the power supply > cable is at 7KV and the metal sphere is at 0V wrt ground, a spark will > leap the gap, charges will flow, and the potential of the sphere will > begin to rise. But when the potential of the sphere reaches the same > potential as the power supply cable, then no spark is possible, and > the potential of the sphere stops rising at just below 7KV. The same > thing happens regardless of whether the cable is held near the inner > surface of the sphere or the outer surface. When the potential of > the cable and the potential of the sphere are equal, the e-field > between the tip of the cable and the surface of the sphere is zero, > and even if there are some charges in the air, those charges will not > flow. A DC power supply cannot pump charges to a higher potential > than the potential of the power supply terminal. > > To create a higher voltage than 7KV, we can use EM induction (a > transformer), we can string some charged capacitors or batteries > in series (voltage multiplier), or we can physically push a floating > "capacitor plate" around in space (all electrostatic machines.) I > think that this covers all possibilities. > > Hey, this gives us a way to separate "static electricity" from the > rest of electronics. Normal electronics involves voltages produced by > transformer-based power supplies, series batteries, or voltage > multipliers. "Static electricity" involves voltages produced by > variable capacitors. > > > > Another way to do the same thing: charge a parallel-plate capacitor to > > > 500VDC, then pull the plates away from each other, then touch this > > > wider capacitor to a metal sphere and to ground. Repeat the process many > > > times, and the voltage on the metal sphere will rise far higher than > > > 500VDC. The increase in voltage is proportional to the increase in > > > capacitor plate spacing: if you start at 1mm spacing and increase it to > > > 10mm, then the capacitor voltage will rise by a factor of 10. (Note that > > > it takes work to pull the capacitor plates apart. This work is the > > > "power supply" for the voltage amplifier.) > > > I don't think this is a correct analogy. > > You're right. It's only half the story. The other half involves the > rising voltage which appears when the charge on the belt is physically > driven towards the alike-charged sphere. As the bit of charged rubber > belt moves away from the roller, the voltage of the charge wrt ground > might rise to 10KV or 100KV. But as the bit of belt is pushed towards the > charged sphere, the voltage on the belt AND the voltage on the sphere both > rise a bit higher. As a result, the voltage on the sphere grows and grows > as long as the belt keeps moving, and as long as the excess charges > already on the don't escape from the sphere via corona discharge or > sparks. > > > I think the belt is simply a charge transport device carrying > > the voltage created when separated from the bottom roller to the > > inside of the sphere. The belt is just a way of keeping the point > > of charge separation a reasonable distance from the sphere so > > it doesn't just short out before a high voltage can accumulate. > > Nope, this misses the entire mechanism behind the operation of the VDG. > Mechanical energy is constantly injected into the system in order to push > the charged belt against the repulsive force from the sphere. This energy > is stored in the system, and it appears as a uniformly rising voltage on > the metal sphere. Also note: if the belt/roller mechanism creates only > 50KV or so, yet the voltage on the sphere rises to half a megavolt, then > something else is going on. That something else is constant-current > capacitive multiplication coupled with the ice-pail effect. > > > As a practical matter (actual experiment here!), I have measured > > the voltage at the point of separation of the belt from the roller > > and it is quite a bit higher just after separating from the roller > > than it is at a distance from the roller. > > Strange. You're right, it might be caused by ion leakage through > the air. However, the internal capacitance of the electrostatic > voltmeter has a massive effect on this kind of measurement. The > capacitance of a small piece of the charged rubber belt is tiny (way > below 1pf), while the internal capacitance of an electrostatic voltmeter > is many orders of magnitude higher. When you attempt to measure the > voltage of the charged belt, you form a capacitive voltage divider, and > the added capacitance of the uncharged voltmeter will drag the belt's > voltage down by a factor of 100 or 1000. Initially the capacitance > of the patch of belt is high when it's near the roller, so the > meter's capacitance doesn't drag the voltage down so much, and > the reading will be high. Then, as the patch of rubber belt moves > upwards, its drastically falling capacitance is swamped out by the > relatively huge capacitance of the voltmeter, and the voltage reading > will not rise. > > Example: say that the patch of belt is 1pf when near the roller, > and has a potential of 100KV. Introducing a 100pF electrostatic > voltmeter will drag the voltage down by a factor of 100, to > 1KV. Then, what if the capacitance of the same patch of belt > falls to 0.1pF as the patch of belt belt moves far from the > roller? It's potential should rise to 1MV. Again introducing the > 100pF voltmeter now drags the voltage down by a factor of 1000, > to 1KV volts, so the meter tells you that the voltage didn't rise. > But if the voltmeter was not present at all, the falling > capacitance of the belt would cause the belt's potential to rise > quite a bit. > > If you could take measurments with an "ideal" voltmeter having 0pf > internal capacitance, then I think the results would be very different > than what you saw. > > > In other words, just the opposite of your capacitor plate > > separation analogy. I attribute this to simple charge dissipation > > in the air. I have measured this effect with several diffent > > electrostatic voltmeters, and they all pretty much agree. > > I wonder, what is the usual way to measure the potential of > physically tiny charged objects? The capacitance of the > measuring device would have to be far smaller than the capacitance > of the charged object, otherwise the readings would be totally > wrong. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 18:40:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA08029; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:40:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:40:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:40:21 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: VDG theory In-Reply-To: <395154AD.EA53626B@ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"J_wLJ2.0.Jz1.9eTev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16521 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, John Berry wrote: > constant current capacitive multiplication? > > Can you give us more on that? Sure! As a small region of charge on the moving belt is pulled away from the opposite-charged roller, it's capacitance decreases, so its voltage wrt ground increases. This is capacitive multiplication, pure and simple. As the small region of charge on the belt is pushed up towards the alike-charged upper sphere, the overall potential OF THE SPHERE increases too, since the moving patch of charge is the same as a constant current, and the metal sphere is a capacitor plate: whenever you pump a constant current through a capacitor, the capacitor's voltage rises continuously. Or another way to say it: it takes work to drive the patch of charge against the repulsion and towards the sphere, and whenever work (mechanical energy) is injected into a capacitor system, a voltage somewhere must rise. The small region of charge approaches the sphere, inducing a region of opposite charge on the nearest metal surface, and inducing a region of alike charge on the outer surface far from the belt. The region of enters the sphere, whereupon the force that was repelling it drops to zero, and the voltage on the metal sphere stops rising. Next the small region of charge induces an opposite charge on the inside surface of the sphere, and simultaneously induces an alike charge on the outside surface of the sphere, as if the small region of charge had already moved to the outside surface. (Whenever you place a charge inside a hollow sphere, the sphere does *not* shield the e-field of that charge.) Finally, the small region of charge gets cancelled out by the opposite charges from the upper comb, so essentially the imbalance of charge *has* moved to the outer surface of the sphere. Crank the belt continously, and the voltage on the VDG sphere will rise continuously. If the belt and column is made longer, then for the same flow of charge the voltage will rise faster (since more work must be done to push the same charge across a longer distance in a repulsive field.) Note that the voltage on the sphere rises continuously. Why does it ever level off? It eventually reaches a maximum when corona-leakage breaks out on the sphere, and an electric current starts leaking through the air and back to ground. To increase the VDG voltage, get rid of all sharp edges on the sphere, bend the metal around the hole inwards, and polish the sphere. When your tabletop VDG machine is running, the voltage on the sphere rises to ~ 200KV then stops rising, and then a radial electric current appears in the air surrounding the sphere, and the air fills with charge (air ions.) A VDG machine creates a high voltage, but it also spews many microamps of charge-flow out into the air. Since this charge has the same polarity as the charge on the sphere, it is repelled. The sphere of an operating VDG is surrounded by an invisible "dandelion puff" made of flowing ions. It will charge any object near it. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 19:08:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA23352; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 19:07:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 19:07:49 -0700 Message-ID: <39A1E201.F30EA7A@csrlink.net> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 22:14:25 -0400 From: Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy 1 References: <005301c00bb0$92740300$ebd666ce@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6XDtZ.0.ji5.r1Uev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16522 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Chris, Yes I know that. I was thinking, what if you redesigned that system rock/hill or more specifically redesigned the rock? MJ Chris O'Barr wrote: > You DO realize there are explanations for these things, don't you. > Like the rock falling down the hill, potential energy to kinetic (how > it got there isn't the point, the point is...it got there). I'm not > trying to insult you, I just wanted to make sure that you know these > things. :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Enki > To: Michael S. Johnston > Date: Sunday, August 20, 2000 12:12 AM > Subject: [FG]: Free Energy 1 > Hi All, > I thought I would start with a definition of free energy. > To me that means being able to get more energy out of a > system than what you have to put into it. I have seen people > really wrestle with that concept. For example, what about a > rock rolling down a hill? Or how about a stick of dynamite? > Or maybe a nuclear explosion/reactor? Do you get more energy > out of all of those things than what you put into them? Yes, > no doubt about it. Are any of these things either > "overunity" or "Free Energy"? No. Very simple. No. No matter > how you slice them they are not. In all of these cases, MORE > potential energy exists than what you extract from them. > Also you can only get then to go in one direction. Look at > the rock for example, it gives you a lot of power going down > the hill but it is going to take you even more power to get > it back up to the top of the hill again to repeat your > cycle. Understand? > I got into this whole thing because I thought it would be > fun to find a way to use the H2 in water as a fuel. In my > brief involvement I have seen many ideas advanced (and > gadgets sold) which purported to provide free energy but > have yet to see any of them get consistently positive > reviews or independent confirmation of their validity. So it > remains a challenge. I thought it would be nice to give you > all a real, simple free energy device that you could > experiment with and that wouldn't be too pricey to build or > too complex (or dangerous) for the average 12 year old to > understand. So that is what I am going to try to do tonight. > > The device, of course, involves water (enki=lord of the > waters). If you are interested I hope you enjoy it. If not, > delete it. > First I would like to turn your attention to a simple > experiment which I am sure that you are all familiar with. > Take a drinking glass and fill it most of the way with > water. Next invert it into a shallow pan of water. What > happens? The water hangs suspended inside the glass, defying > gravity. > [Image] > Want anti-gravity in your home, there it is. Why does the > water hang inside the glass like that? Because if it fell it > would cause the air above it to become so low in pressure > that it would create a vacuum. So the air, in it's attempt > to stay at standard pressure has enough attractive force to > hold the water in place against the force of gravity. You > have done the work once and created a self perpetuating > system in which the water will stay in that place > indefinitely haven't you? If nothing changes in the system > it would last indefinitely, but eventually enough water > would evaporate from the pan so that air could be drawn up > into the glass and the water would fall. Still though do you > see the beauty of this? How much energy is required to hold > a certain quantity of water in the air like that? Yet here > it is, free, for a one time investment. > Ok, so that is a static system, sort of the the rock on > the top of the hill. You can't get any useful energy out of > it without having something moving to do the work right? And > if you drop the water to get what energy you can out of it > you have losses but can get something. Unfortunately you > also have to expend more energy to get the water back up > into the glass again if you want to continue the cycle with > it right? Undoubtedly this system, as depicted above, can't > generate any more power than what you put into it and is > good for a conversation piece at best. Or is it? > What if you tried to get some energy out of it? What > would be the best way to do it? I like a water wheel myself. > Consider the state of the water within the glass. It's > water. It's not thinned out like the air above it. I did > this experiment and put a small tube into the side of the > glass just below the surface of the water near the top of > the glass. It isn't hard at all to get water to flow out of > that tube. It is at whatever height you have drawn it to so > it doesn't have to be pumped "up" to the outlet. It is > already there. So it requires much less effort to pump > water, from just below the surface, straight OUT of a > container than it does to pump water UP from a depth doesn't > it? The only drawback is that you would have to use a pump > which didn't let air back into the container while you were > pumping it out. As you pump it out new water circulates into > the container from the pan in the bottom. > [Image] > What if you made the tank 30' tall? What if you kept the > water level in it at 25'? Then had a 4' pool in the pan at > the bottom? > As you pumped the water out of the TOP of the tank it could > fall 20' over a water wheel which is connected to a > generator. A 20' water wheel can generate a LOT of power, > depending on the water flow and the size of the generator > which is attached to it. After all, what is a water wheel > but a set of levers? Remember you aren't pumping the water > UP 20' either. The air is holding it there for you already, > you are only supplying the energy to pump it OUT at the > desired rate. And again, once the water turns the wheel it > falls back into the pan where it eventually is drawn into > the bottom of the container again..... Maybe this is how > Tesla figured to turn a water wheel with water the wheel > pumped to it's top. So there, maybe you are starting to > understand. This isn't the free energy device I was talking > about, that is still to come. This is a started which may be > able to do the job on it's own. The next ones are even > better. keep reading. > MJ > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 19:40:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA04182; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 19:39:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 19:39:57 -0700 Message-ID: <019e01c00be1$3a33e300$8002a8c0@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Latest grav-cap msg Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 22:32:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"xuN0Z3.0.211.yVUev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16523 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I would like to order this kit Sam Garza ----- Original Message ----- From: William Beaty To: Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 4:19 PM Subject: [FG]: Latest grav-cap msg > > See below... > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > > > > On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, clifford l wrote: > > > At present I am not working on the GC as the device has been given to > > another person that has contacted me some time ago. He has a PHd in > > physics and is working on a theory on what makes this tick. His lab is > > in California at JPL and working at odd hours at night as to not get > > anyone involved. We have found some troubles with using a VDG as a power > > source cause of it was making micro punctures in the mylar and yet did > > not show a short but made the GC fail. We are using a 6 volt spark coil > > purchased in a auto supply store for $8.00 and controlling the DC > > voltages from 0.5KV to 28KV, where 1.8KV the GC starts to react. > > > Anyone who wants this thing, I and some colleagues will have a demo > > kit/plans available on the net, hopefully by first of next year. We are > > not planning to sell this for money due to some implication from a > > supposedly patent, that we are still unable to find. Sorry about that, > > but first come.... > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 20:49:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA31443; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:48:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:48:37 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 23:48:32 -0400 Message-Id: <200008220348.XAA00382@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"PAXSH1.0.7h7.KWVev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16524 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Rick writes: >The pics show up fine with GroupWise. > >Rick Never heard of it, but that's no surprise. I'm still using Eudora Lite on a 16bit machine, so I probably wouldn't be able to run GroupWise. Thanks anyway, Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 21:27:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15708; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:26:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:26:59 -0700 Message-ID: <000901bad829$149d93c0$c45006d1@trpr.pa.cable.rcn.com> From: "Lab 666" To: References: <019e01c00be1$3a33e300$8002a8c0@americanengr.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Latest grav-cap msg Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 09:11:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"qDUUS3.0.Lr3.I4Wev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16525 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com if any of you people ever come up with this gravity cap kit, please let me know, I'll be the first one to buy it. I got an online store, and would be glad to help you sell it without any commision, just for the publicity of it. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 21 22:26:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA32228; Mon, 21 Aug 2000 22:25:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 22:25:52 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000821222827.2d0f0dc0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 22:28:27 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Scalar Current, Longitudinal Waves, Reciprocating Current In-Reply-To: <399CF1C9.2C7E8636@flash.net> References: <4.2.0.58.20000817123637.0095d6a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Nacd-1.0.Tt7.VxWev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16526 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Khem and all, At 04:20 AM 08/18/00 -0400, you wrote: > Here's a link to an old experiment in which you can see an EM >standing wave: http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/mk95939.jpg > I asked Antonio what the column was and he replied: >The column is a long coil of fine wire wound on a solid glass bar, >with two wires mounted at its sides. It is connected to a small Tesla >coil, and acts as a transmission line, showing how the voltage varies >along it by the corona that appears between the coil and the wires. >A beautiful experiment, probably not very easy to set up with the >correct tuning. -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 22 00:05:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA23591; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 00:05:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 00:05:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <39a18c05.6d64.0@enter.net> References: <39a18c05.6d64.0@enter.net> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:04:52 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"JCavi3.0.Mm5.QOYev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16527 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com David - >>One way to determine the answer is to construct a pair of devices and >>see if the signals are similar enough to constitute a single signal >>from a source remote to both devices. >This sounds like a worth-while experiment that should be replicated. Did you >try shielding your circuits inside 2 separate metal boxes, that were in close >proximity? Poorly shielded. The signals were mostly very different except when it was radio interference. >That should block most extraneous RF signals. Make sure it's battery >operated. You don't want any 60Hz effects. > >I have not myself replicated this circuit, but am not ready to toss out the >results just yet since TT Brown did extensive experiments with his >petro-voltaics >(which are slightly different from Hodowanec's circuits, but >nonetheless relevant). I like the petrovoltaic experiments too. Tried some with larger value capacitors, but I couldn't completely differentiate those results from temperature changes. But it did look like the caps were following the temperature changes outside the house rather than in their insulated chamber. Need to do more some day on that one. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI >If you go to http://www.soteria.com/ to the Brown family website, you can find >some of his articles on his petrovoltaic results. Rex Research sells a good >Infolios on his petrovoltaics that is ~0.5" thick, full of strip chart data >of his results extending over a long period of time in various >places, and under >various measurement conditions. > >-David Rosignoli From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 22 02:47:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA20643; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:47:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:47:03 -0700 Message-ID: <00ad01c00c1d$9265bda0$758c01d4@default> From: "Gavin" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:37:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"tD40v.0.Q25.Mmaev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16529 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bill, ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Beaty" To: Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit > On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Rick Monteverde wrote: > > > This seems to be the main question about these things: is the 1/f > > noise heard in these devices just the thermal and/or electrical noise > > from the components or is it 'dielectric waves' or 'gravity waves' > > from some distant source like exploding stars? > > In some systems, 1/f effects are caused by Chaos, since fractal structures > have geometry which repeats at 1/f scale. > And then you've got stochastic resonance where a low level signal is amplified by noise which is set at a particular resonant level. Many things psychic only manifest as order in a chaotic system (such as dice or random event generators); could it be that psychic signals may manifest in the depths of 1/f noise. > About circuit noise: if we place a device inside heavy shielding yet the > noise continues, then mainstream physics tells us that the noise is > created locally inside the device. Fringe science tells us to suspect > that the heavy shielding is transparent to certain energy fluxes which are > not part of conventional science. So, which one is correct? If the noise > is created locally within the circuit components, and if voltage, > temperature, etc., are held constant, then the noise should remain > constant forever. If the noise should change over time, then that is > evidence that the conventional view is wrong and the "fringe-science" view > is right. > The cicuit (when the QND capacitor is in circuit) amplifies electric dipole activity. This activity can be due to thermal, RF, microwave radiation or gravity wave radiation; all will cause motion of the dielectrics dipoles. Thermal effects will generate only white noise who's amplitude will vary with the magntude of this thermal energy. Modulated microwave radiation will produce actual audio signals, as will modulated RF. Isolate these and you should get only gravitational radiation. When the QND capacitor is out, the circuit tries to somehow oscillate, then the noise is a varying tone as the dipole activity effects the oscillation to a small extent. At the moment this is all theory..... > > One way to determine the answer is to construct a pair of devices and > > see if the signals are similar enough to constitute a single signal > > from a source remote to both devices. > > Yes! > > > > On another topic: I built the "radar detector" from a kit, and it did > work. It was basically a (ceramic?) capacitor with 1/2" leads connected > as part of an op-amp oscillator. I don't know if the RF affected the > capacitor dielectric, or if it was simply being rectified by overdriving > the op-amp input transistors. I hung it from my rear-view mirror and > adjusted it for a constant whistle. After a few days of commuting to > work, the device made obvious squealing noises, and within a few seconds I > passed a state trooper vehicle on the side of the highway with a radar > unit attached to the side window. I guess the thing works! > Sounds very similar to this circuit and Hodowanec does state that it can be used to detect microwave radiation, for this reason he suggests sticking it in a metal box. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > Regards, Gavin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 22 02:47:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA20601; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:46:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:46:58 -0700 Message-ID: <00ac01c00c1d$8afe9960$758c01d4@default> From: "Gavin" To: References: <200008210344.XAA10568@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <4.2.0.58.20000821084951.0095b5f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:22:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0065_01C00C22.E3E30020" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"_Sv2-.0.j15.Hmaev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16528 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C00C22.E3E30020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Charles, yes, this is the file and I have considered (but not to the extent you = have) the considerations you have outlined below. The 741 is certainly a = white noise generator in it's own right as well as being a pretty good = low pass filter :-). My intention was to try and keep close to the = original design outlined by Hodowanec, then think about improving the = design. Infact he suggests that the op-amp could be replaced with a = better IC, specifically he suggests using MOSFET input op-amps. I found, however, that the noise from the circuit stopped when the = capacitor was removed. I then left the inverting lead (where the = capacitor is usually connected) floating; all I got was a little mains = hum. Then I shorted this same lead to ground; in this case I got = nothing, apart from some very low level noise presumably generated by = the ICs themselves. Next I tried different resistors; same effects. The howling and other such unusual sounds are due to circuit = instability, where it is simply trying to break into oscillation. When = the QND capacitor is connected into circuit, the howling stops; this is = due to the feedback resistor and QND capacitor forming a high pass = filter which stops the circuit from oscillating; this is when the white = noise is generated.=20 All the above is with regard to when a 220nF disc ceramic is used as the = sensing capacitor. When higher values are used the oscillation takes the = form of a spike who's harmonics can not be removed by the QND = cap-feedback resistor filtering network. In this case all you get is the = pulsing of oscillation, white noise. If a 100uF capacitor is used, then = you can get the white noise if you adjust the potentiometers just right. I have built a white noise generator before, I amplified the minority = carriers current of a reverse biased PN junction, namely the = base-collector of a BC109 transistor, this work very well. You are quite right about the acoustic pick-up of the capacitor, also = there is ionic-movement to consider when using electrolytic. Long term = variations (two day period cycles, right down there ELF) may be due to = temperature variations.=20 The vacuum capacitor idea sounds interesting, can you get these = "off-shelf"? Hodowanec suggests that the white noise from the circuit is infact = gravitational background activity flooding in form throughout the = universe. This homogeneous gravitational flux is modulated by the = movements of astronomical bodies such as planets, stars and our Moon. = So. if you switch in the QND capacitor and monitor the intensity of the = white noise over great periods of time, you should see things like the = Moon's 28 day cycle. If you switch out the QND capacitor, then you should be able to detect = earth and star quakes, supernovas going off and other low frequency (1Hz = and up) gravity waves. So, what started as a simple little curiosity could become quite a = serious and complex side-line! Regards, Gavin=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Charles Ford=20 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit If this file is the one that you are working with there are some = things that you may want to understand. First is that the 741 and 1450 = are very popular operational amps they are by no means instrument = quality devices. They experience offset drift heat changes and are also = relatively noisy devices. It is quite possible that the noise that you measure is a result of a = trashy input. 1/f noise should be understood before it is dismissed. This is a = result of the sum of the actions of individual electron in a totally = random movement at the depletion region of an semiconductor. = Statistical math will show that the subtle net effect of the random = events will appear as small fluctuations that are equal in magnitude and = reduce as the examination period increases. (a function of "f") = internal gain of a bipolar transistor device varies by a function of = 1/f^2 =20 the net result is 1/f and is measurable and provable with any = transistor amplifier. Try looking at some diagrams for "White noise generator" and "Pink = noise generator" Also it is important (but not mentioned in the article) to avoid.. Dielectric compounds that my be active. (there are no off the shelf = caps that do not have=20 an active dielectric) I might recommend a vacuum. Also be aware that monolithic (single layer) capacitors are subject = to acoustical. radio, and radiological noise. Try using vacuum tube or MOSFET amplifiers. and a couple of aluminum = pltes suspended inside a vacuum. If you still have noise then you may = have done it.... I think I will start building one... still looks like fun.... At 08:44 AM 8/21/00 -0500, you wrote: Is this the file? http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/grav3.txt At 11:44 PM 8/20/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all, >for a while I have been an avid coiler, but have now decided to = embark upon the exploration of more subtle energies. So I have turned away = from the scene of high voltage currents to the realm of strange = electronics. Naturally my first port of call was Hodowanec's work on gravity = wave detectors. >I have built the circuit on breadboard to see what exactly it = did, but may build a "fixed" version on strip-board; full details of the = circuit can be fond in the file grav3.html, otherwise I'll send a pcx file of the = circuit to anybody who is interested. Anyway, the results. Hi Gavin, Is this grav3.html file on a website somewhere? I don't see any = URL, and didn't get an attachment. If you sent an attachment that was too = large to the group, it may have been filtered out. thanks, Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C00C22.E3E30020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Charles,
yes, this is the file and I have considered (but not to the extent = you=20 have) the considerations you have outlined below. The 741 is certainly a = white=20 noise generator in it's own right as well as being a pretty good low = pass filter=20 :-). My intention was to try and keep close to the original design = outlined by=20 Hodowanec, then think about improving the design. Infact he suggests = that the=20 op-amp could be replaced with a better IC, specifically he suggests = using MOSFET=20 input op-amps.
I found, however, that the noise from the circuit stopped when the=20 capacitor was removed. I then left the inverting lead (where the = capacitor=20 is usually connected) floating; all I got was a little mains hum. Then I = shorted=20 this same lead to ground; in this case I got nothing, apart from some = very low=20 level noise presumably generated by the ICs themselves. Next I tried = different=20 resistors; same effects.
 
The howling and other such unusual sounds are due to circuit = instability,=20 where it is simply trying to break into oscillation. When the QND = capacitor is=20 connected into circuit, the howling stops; this is due to the feedback = resistor=20 and QND capacitor forming a high pass filter which stops the circuit = from=20 oscillating; this is when the white noise is generated.
 
All the above is with regard to when a 220nF disc ceramic is used = as the=20 sensing capacitor. When higher values are used the oscillation takes the = form of=20 a spike who's harmonics can not be removed by the QND cap-feedback = resistor=20 filtering network. In this case all you get is the pulsing of = oscillation, white=20 noise. If a 100uF capacitor is used, then you can get the white noise if = you=20 adjust the potentiometers just right.
 
I have built a white noise generator before, I amplified the = minority=20 carriers current of a reverse biased PN junction, namely the = base-collector of a=20 BC109 transistor, this work very well.
 
You are quite right about the acoustic pick-up of the capacitor, = also there=20 is ionic-movement to consider when using electrolytic. Long term = variations (two=20 day period cycles, right down there ELF) may be due to temperature = variations.=20
 
The vacuum capacitor idea sounds interesting, can you get these=20 "off-shelf"?
 
Hodowanec suggests that the white noise from the circuit is infact=20 gravitational background activity flooding in form throughout the = universe. This=20 homogeneous gravitational flux is modulated by the movements=20 of astronomical bodies such as planets, stars and our Moon. So. if = you=20 switch in the QND capacitor and monitor the intensity of the white noise = over=20 great periods of time, you should see things like the Moon's 28 day = cycle.
If you switch out the QND capacitor, then you should be able = to detect=20 earth and star quakes, supernovas going off and other low frequency (1Hz = and up)=20 gravity waves.
 
So, what started as a simple little curiosity could become quite a = serious=20 and complex side-line!
 
Regards,
 
Gavin 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Charles = Ford=20
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 = 3:27=20 PM
Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec=20 Circuit

If this file is the one that you are working with = there are=20 some things that you may want to understand.   First is that = the 741=20 and 1450 are very popular operational amps they are by no means = instrument=20 quality devices.  They experience offset drift heat changes and = are also=20 relatively noisy devices.

It is=20 quite possible that the noise that you measure is a result of a trashy = input.
1/f noise should be understood before it is dismissed.  = This is=20 a result of the sum of the actions of individual electron in a totally = random=20 movement at the depletion region of an semiconductor.  = Statistical math=20 will show that the subtle net effect of the random events will appear = as small=20 fluctuations that are equal in magnitude and reduce as the examination = period=20 increases.  (a function of "f") internal gain of a bipolar = transistor=20 device varies by a function of 1/f^2   

the net = result=20 is 1/f and is measurable and provable with any transistor=20 amplifier.

Try looking at some diagrams for "White noise = generator" and=20 "Pink noise generator"

Also it is important (but not mentioned = in the=20 article) to avoid..
Dielectric compounds that my be active.  = (there=20 are no off the shelf caps that do not have
an active = dielectric)  I=20 might recommend a vacuum.

Also be aware that monolithic  = (single=20 layer) capacitors are subject to acoustical. radio, and radiological=20 noise.

Try using vacuum tube or MOSFET amplifiers. and a couple = of=20 aluminum pltes suspended inside a vacuum.  If you still have = noise then=20 you may have done it....

I think I will start building=20 one...    still looks like fun....



At = 08:44 AM=20 8/21/00 -0500, you wrote:
Is this the file?

http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/grav3.txt

<= BR>At=20 11:44 PM 8/20/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>for a while I have = been an=20 avid coiler, but have now decided to embark upon
the = exploration of=20 more subtle energies. So I have turned away from the
scene of = high=20 voltage currents to the realm of strange electronics.
Naturally = my=20 first port of call was Hodowanec's work on gravity wave=20 detectors.
>I have built the circuit on breadboard to see = what=20 exactly it did, but may
build a "fixed" version on strip-board; = full=20 details of the circuit can be
fond in the file grav3.html, = otherwise=20 I'll send a pcx file of the circuit
to anybody who is = interested.=20 Anyway, the results.

Hi Gavin,

Is this grav3.html = file on a=20 website somewhere?  I don't see any URL, and
didn't get an = attachment.  If you sent an attachment that was too large = to
the=20 group, it may have been filtered=20 out.

thanks,

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman=20 Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida=20 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm=20
------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C00C22.E3E30020-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 22 02:47:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA20680; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:47:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:47:07 -0700 Message-ID: <00ae01c00c1d$93e64320$758c01d4@default> From: "Gavin" To: "FG" References: <200008210344.XAA10568@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <4.2.0.58.20000821084951.0095b5f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:39:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0089_01C00C25.45BB4D00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"olssV3.0.135.Rmaev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16530 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01C00C25.45BB4D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Charles, yes, this is the file and I agree with some of what you mentioned below. = The noise is very great when the sensing capacitor is connected. = However, when removed the noise disapears, so the source seems to be the = capacitor it's self. I tried leaving the inverting input floating and = shorted to ground, in neither case did the noise appear. It may be = possible that the capacitor may have somehow effected the circuit's = biasing resulting in the noise being generated by the op-amp. I should = mention that when you knock the board or touch the capacitor you can = hear it, i.e. it amplifies physical vibration through the capacitor. = With all this in mind I think the 1/f noise is deffintly due to electric = dipole activity in the sensing capacitor.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Charles Ford=20 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit If this file is the one that you are working with there are some = things that you may want to understand. First is that the 741 and 1450 = are very popular operational amps they are by no means instrument = quality devices. They experience offset drift heat changes and are also = relatively noisy devices. It is quite possible that the noise that you measure is a result of a = trashy input. 1/f noise should be understood before it is dismissed. This is a = result of the sum of the actions of individual electron in a totally = random movement at the depletion region of an semiconductor. = Statistical math will show that the subtle net effect of the random = events will appear as small fluctuations that are equal in magnitude and = reduce as the examination period increases. (a function of "f") = internal gain of a bipolar transistor device varies by a function of = 1/f^2 =20 the net result is 1/f and is measurable and provable with any = transistor amplifier. Try looking at some diagrams for "White noise generator" and "Pink = noise generator" Also it is important (but not mentioned in the article) to avoid.. Dielectric compounds that my be active. (there are no off the shelf = caps that do not have=20 an active dielectric) I might recommend a vacuum. Also be aware that monolithic (single layer) capacitors are subject = to acoustical. radio, and radiological noise. Try using vacuum tube or MOSFET amplifiers. and a couple of aluminum = pltes suspended inside a vacuum. If you still have noise then you may = have done it.... I think I will start building one... still looks like fun.... At 08:44 AM 8/21/00 -0500, you wrote: Is this the file? http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/grav3.txt At 11:44 PM 8/20/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all, >for a while I have been an avid coiler, but have now decided to = embark upon the exploration of more subtle energies. So I have turned away = from the scene of high voltage currents to the realm of strange = electronics. Naturally my first port of call was Hodowanec's work on gravity = wave detectors. >I have built the circuit on breadboard to see what exactly it = did, but may build a "fixed" version on strip-board; full details of the = circuit can be fond in the file grav3.html, otherwise I'll send a pcx file of the = circuit to anybody who is interested. Anyway, the results. Hi Gavin, Is this grav3.html file on a website somewhere? I don't see any = URL, and didn't get an attachment. If you sent an attachment that was too = large to the group, it may have been filtered out. thanks, Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01C00C25.45BB4D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Charles,
yes, this is the file and I agree with = some of what=20 you mentioned below. The noise is very great when the = sensing capacitor is=20 connected. However, when removed the noise disapears, so the source = seems to be=20 the capacitor it's self. I tried leaving the inverting input floating = and=20 shorted to ground, in neither case did the noise appear. It may be = possible that=20 the capacitor may have somehow effected the circuit's biasing resulting = in the=20 noise being generated by the op-amp. I should mention that when you = knock the=20 board or touch the capacitor you can hear it, i.e. it = amplifies=20 physical vibration through the capacitor. With all this in mind I think=20 the 1/f noise is deffintly due to electric dipole activity in the = sensing=20 capacitor. 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Charles = Ford=20
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 = 3:27=20 PM
Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec=20 Circuit

If this file is the one that you are working with = there are=20 some things that you may want to understand.   First is that = the 741=20 and 1450 are very popular operational amps they are by no means = instrument=20 quality devices.  They experience offset drift heat changes and = are also=20 relatively noisy devices.
It is quite possible that the noise that you measure is a result = of a=20 trashy input.
1/f noise should be understood before it is = dismissed. =20 This is a result of the sum of the actions of individual electron in a = totally=20 random movement at the depletion region of an semiconductor.  = Statistical=20 math will show that the subtle net effect of the random events will = appear as=20 small fluctuations that are equal in magnitude and reduce as the = examination=20 period increases.  (a function of "f") internal gain of a bipolar = transistor device varies by a function of 1/f^2    =

the=20 net result is 1/f and is measurable and provable with any transistor=20 amplifier.

Try looking at some diagrams for "White noise = generator" and=20 "Pink noise generator"

Also it is important (but not mentioned = in the=20 article) to avoid..
Dielectric compounds that my be active.  = (there=20 are no off the shelf caps that do not have
an active = dielectric)  I=20 might recommend a vacuum.

Also be aware that monolithic  = (single=20 layer) capacitors are subject to acoustical. radio, and radiological=20 noise.

Try using vacuum tube or MOSFET amplifiers. and a couple = of=20 aluminum pltes suspended inside a vacuum.  If you still have = noise then=20 you may have done it....

I think I will start building=20 one...    still looks like fun....



At = 08:44 AM=20 8/21/00 -0500, you wrote:
Is this the file?

http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/grav3.txt

<= BR>At=20 11:44 PM 8/20/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>for a while I have = been an=20 avid coiler, but have now decided to embark upon
the = exploration of=20 more subtle energies. So I have turned away from the
scene of = high=20 voltage currents to the realm of strange electronics.
Naturally = my=20 first port of call was Hodowanec's work on gravity wave=20 detectors.
>I have built the circuit on breadboard to see = what=20 exactly it did, but may
build a "fixed" version on strip-board; = full=20 details of the circuit can be
fond in the file grav3.html, = otherwise=20 I'll send a pcx file of the circuit
to anybody who is = interested.=20 Anyway, the results.

Hi Gavin,

Is this grav3.html = file on a=20 website somewhere?  I don't see any URL, and
didn't get an = attachment.  If you sent an attachment that was too large = to
the=20 group, it may have been filtered=20 out.

thanks,

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman=20 Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida=20 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm=20
------=_NextPart_000_0089_01C00C25.45BB4D00-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 22 06:12:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA32651; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 06:12:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 06:12:03 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000822080930.0094e9d0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 08:12:27 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy 2 In-Reply-To: <200008220348.XAA00382@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_498634==_.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <"OSWEK.0.4-7.Ymdev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16531 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --=====================_498634==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I use Eudora pro myself... haven't had a problem with email formats since I started. but I am pretty sure that the Netscape mailer (3.0 and higher) shows in line images if you set it in your preferences. At 11:48 PM 8/21/00 -0400, you wrote: >Rick writes: > >The pics show up fine with GroupWise. > > > >Rick > >Never heard of it, but that's no surprise. I'm still using Eudora Lite on a >16bit machine, so I probably wouldn't be able to run GroupWise. Thanks >anyway, > >Knuke --=====================_498634==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I use Eudora pro myself...   haven't had a problem with email formats since I started.  but I am pretty sure that the Netscape mailer (3.0 and higher) shows in line images if you set it in your preferences.


At 11:48 PM 8/21/00 -0400, you wrote:
Rick writes:
>The pics show up fine with GroupWise.
>
>Rick

Never heard of it, but that's no surprise.  I'm still using Eudora Lite on a
16bit machine, so I probably wouldn't be able to run GroupWise.  Thanks anyway,

Knuke
--=====================_498634==_.ALT-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 22 06:49:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA12506; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 06:48:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 06:48:48 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000822083731.0095b670@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 08:48:48 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit In-Reply-To: <00ae01c00c1d$93e64320$758c01d4@default> References: <200008210344.XAA10568@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <4.2.0.58.20000821084951.0095b5f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_2675354==_.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <"8I1P33.0.F33.0Jeev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16532 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --=====================_2675354==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed OK... here is the way this can trick you... The op amps that have ben selected have a DC gain of about 90db and are unity gain at about 1MHz. The negative feedback holds the input in equilibrium and ONLY that state will it amplify. Any other condition will lock the output to the positive or negative rail. Without the cap any noise from the junctions at the input will be instantly canceled by the feedback circuit. The cap also has the effect of slowing down the feedback and allowing the 1/f to pass through the amplifier. This is a trickery little doodad. I simply MUST set aside some time and build one.. no... several of these. At 10:39 AM 8/22/00 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Charles, >yes, this is the file and I agree with some of what you mentioned below. >The noise is very great when the sensing capacitor is connected. However, >when removed the noise disapears, so the source seems to be the capacitor >it's self. I tried leaving the inverting input floating and shorted to >ground, in neither case did the noise appear. It may be possible that the >capacitor may have somehow effected the circuit's biasing resulting in the >noise being generated by the op-amp. I should mention that when you knock >the board or touch the capacitor you can hear it, i.e. it amplifies >physical vibration through the capacitor. With all this in mind I think >the 1/f noise is deffintly due to electric dipole activity in the sensing >capacitor. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Charles Ford >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 3:27 PM >>Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit >> >>If this file is the one that you are working with there are some things >>that you may <> --=====================_2675354==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" OK...   here is the way this can trick you...

The op amps that have ben selected have a DC gain of about 90db and are unity gain at about 1MHz.  The negative feedback holds the input in equilibrium and ONLY that state will it amplify.  Any other condition will lock the output to the positive or negative rail.

Without the cap any noise from the junctions at the input will be instantly canceled by the feedback circuit.  The cap also has the effect of slowing down the feedback and allowing the 1/f to pass through the amplifier.   

This is a trickery little doodad.  I simply MUST set aside some time and build one..   no...  several of these.



At 10:39 AM 8/22/00 +0100, you wrote:
Hi Charles,
yes, this is the file and I agree with some of what you mentioned below. The noise is very great when the sensing capacitor is connected. However, when removed the noise disapears, so the source seems to be the capacitor it's self. I tried leaving the inverting input floating and shorted to ground, in neither case did the noise appear. It may be possible that the capacitor may have somehow effected the circuit's biasing resulting in the noise being generated by the op-amp. I should mention that when you knock the board or touch the capacitor you can hear it, i.e. it amplifies physical vibration through the capacitor. With all this in mind I think the 1/f noise is deffintly due to electric dipole activity in the sensing capacitor.
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Ford
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit

If this file is the one that you are working with there are some things that you may

<<HACK>>

--=====================_2675354==_.ALT-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 22 08:22:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA23580; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 08:21:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 08:21:48 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000822093034.0094e790@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:22:13 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit In-Reply-To: <00ae01c00c1d$93e64320$758c01d4@default> References: <200008210344.XAA10568@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <4.2.0.58.20000821084951.0095b5f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_8279109==_.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <"e1QvP3.0.Lm5.Bgfev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16533 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --=====================_8279109==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Gavin: Yes earlier I mentioned that capacitors also responded to acoustical noise. Also be aware that ceramic disks are piezo electric I will be building several of these devices and I intend to use a multi layer flat mylar device (if I can get them) and set the whole circuit into exploded foam inside a steal pipe. I am thinking if I make them identical then call matching signal content "Real" .... Who knows from there? At 10:39 AM 8/22/00 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Charles, >yes, this is the file and I agree with some of what you mentioned below. >The noise is very <> >the noise being generated by the op-amp. I should mention that when you >knock the board or touch the capacitor you can hear it, i.e. it amplifies >physical vibration through the capacitor. With all this in mind I think >the 1/f noise is deffintly due to electric dipole activity in the sensing >capacitor. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Charles Ford >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 3:27 PM >>Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit --=====================_8279109==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Gavin:

Yes earlier I mentioned that capacitors also responded to acoustical noise.  Also be aware that ceramic disks are piezo electric

I will be building several of these devices and I intend to use a multi layer flat mylar device (if I can get them)  and set the whole circuit into exploded foam inside a steal pipe.  I am thinking if I make them identical then call matching signal content "Real" ....  

Who knows from there?


At 10:39 AM 8/22/00 +0100, you wrote:
Hi Charles,
yes, this is the file and I agree with some of what you mentioned below. The noise is very <<SNIP>>
the noise being generated by the op-amp. I should mention that when you knock the board or touch the capacitor you can hear it, i.e. it amplifies physical vibration through the capacitor. With all this in mind I think the 1/f noise is deffintly due to electric dipole activity in the sensing capacitor.
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Ford
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit
--=====================_8279109==_.ALT-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 22 10:12:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA32731; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:11:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:11:12 -0700 Message-ID: <20000822171038.6950.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:10:38 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: VDG theory/ relative voltages in BRS To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"fsEAl.0.4_7.lGhev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16534 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- William Beaty wrote: > Michael Foster 08/18 > 12:15 PM wrote: > > I hesitate to disagree with you about this one, > you being an electrical > > engineer and all, with years of experience in > electrostatic phenomena, but I > > must. I believe Michael Faraday would disagree as > well, your having more or > > less ignored the Faraday ice pail effect. Sounds like an issue of relative voltages so I thought the following examples of using the rising voltages in series resonance would be interesting. The applications of this are many but the main application is to merely provide a surface area in electrical contact with the midpoint of the series resonant circuit. But first a preliminary discussion of the series resonant rise of voltage needs to be understood. Around 92 I experimented with ways to make a large air core coil go into high frequency. To do this we need an arc gap. In the large 23 gauge coils of 20,000 winds and 1000 ohms could produce induction arcs of 1/4 inch with a 440 volt input. An induction arc is what occurs when me make a break in that dc circuit, the collapsing magnetic field gives back electrical energy at the arc. The DC circuit itself consists of a rectification system of 4 diodes(full wave rectifier). The practice is to add a capacitance in parallel to that rectification to smooth out the dc ripples. What I noted in driving these large 1000 ohm inductors at 440 volt input at dc {these produce actual air core magnetic fields sufficient to turn a 50 lb rotor several hundred rpm, with terrible arcing problems at commutator} was that the input voltage to the coil could increase by adding capacitance to that filter. Further reasoning showed that very small capacitors in turn reduced the voltage across that coil and also the power input consumption. Now since that load had a very high inductance, I could also place a very low capacitive value in that filter that could be a a correct value to resonate with the L as a load. But since the effect is made from a dc ripple as input, the frequency to be used for calculations of resonant frequency must be doubled or made at 120 hz. It is found that doubling the freq decreases the needed capacitance 4 fold. For a 56 Henry coil that value would be 0.003 microfarad, a small value. An induction arc made using these resonant values has a very laser like quality. In one experiment it appeared to also produce ringing sound in the room. But moving on I wanted to explore the effect of AC. In the example just provided the arc is within the circuit. I thought was always supposed to be the case by common sense, but I found out differently. The first method I found for making high freq from wall voltage input was to make a coil and cap at 60 hz series resonance and introducing two plates of metal on the botttom and top of the coil in parallel connection. Shoving these plates together with a stick, loud pops could be heard; separating them a small distance a succesion a loud firecracker pops could be made. Now the same thing could be done by hooking the plates to the other end of the series resonance, across the caps in parallel. Now if this were done on both L and C sides simultaneously, if arcs on both sides fired simultaneously that would represent a path of dead short current to the wall voltage, something not tried out of common sense. In this example it takes a large time for the arc to build up to its resonant rise voltage of Q=15 times the input voltage, or 1800 volts. Once the arc occurs the coil or cap is taken out of the picture as it is shorted by the arc schematically. Therefore the system goes from a resonant condition to a reactive where either L or C is used with the arc in series during discharge. This produces highly damped or staccato disharges, not a free vibration. To reach a solution I created two of the circuits mirror image as 180 phased series resonances and allowed an arc gap between those resonances. This enabled a very free vibration to occur as the arc would quickly form and extinguish itself as a single gap system where the arcs would correspond to timing of the 60 hz cycles to make a 120 BPS(bursts per second) high frequency system. What this in turn implies that we have arranged two series resonances schematically as a center tap transformer, each producing a voltage rise above and below ground potential. Thus attaching plate areas from a single arc gap MIGHT allow the electric field at high frequency to propagate on those surface areas. This led to the next common sense modification of using a double gap system where if 2 plate areas in space were made, in other words capacitively coupled by virtue of the fact the each plate is attached to opposite polaries of resonant rise; that space represents a low C value as a load between the midpoints of the 180 phased series resonances. All that is neccessary then is to put miniscule air gaps in the connections to each midpoint and if arcing occurs as the completion of the circuit, that sample is subjected to high frequency electric fields. I have made a small closet room for human and plant experiments. The high frequency currents readily travel along the entire plant, as shocks can be felt on touch to leaves in experiments made last fall. Applying the same principle in an outside garden was unsuccessful because the ground cannot easily resonated with a small power input, and very ominous things occured when a resonant rise was directly shorted to ground. It would kick the computer of the internet and even dissable function of a scope beam sensoring that transmission line. A Neon must be put in series with the ground connection for this kind of high frequency gardening, and the arc gaps are very problematic. However to conclude what effect I am trying to state here is that of relative voltages. Whenever the one plate is positive , the other negative. The use of the double arc gap actually can allow for an increase of bps rates, and strictly speaking we are trading a high frequency magnetic oscillation for a oscillation of the electric field in space. We can put an inductor in that space and find from scope observation that the EM is polarized in all 3 dimensions, but this may be due to what is known as a near field effect. Nevetheless with a pancake style inductor as I have used out of a microwave oven, the oscillations are twice the volume with the inductor in the incorrect angle to recieve flux change from the changing hf electric field. Now suppose this inductor is in that orientation with the loops facing a single hf plate, and it is recording these longitudinal signals being monitored on the scope at a high freq sweep range. We would suspect then that if we bring the opposite potential plate from the other midpoint potential closer to its opposite, with the inductor between the plates the flux density would double and the inductors signal voltage would also double. What happens is exactly the opposite, the signal is slightly reduced. In fact a better strength signal is obtained with a single plate! This is because when we bring the plates closer together their voltage correspondingly reduces themselves, although I have not directly measured this, because the voltage between those plates are over 3000 volts at household AC input to the coils. If in turn we put this voltage across a long series of water cells in series, that voltage in turn reduces itself down to the level close to that to enable conduction, I have measured 1.54 volts on 3/4 inch separation of cells or 44 volts across 29 cells. If the water cell were rearranged for all the cells to be in parallel, the input voltage again would drop down to only the smallest value needed to enable conduction. So I thought this example of the relative voltages made in series resonance applications would be of interest. What is of further interest however is how the high frequency is made on a tesla coil. Tesla noted in Colorado Spring Notes on July 2, 1899 that putting the arc gap within the tank circuit has the disadvantage that the primary current passes through the break hence, the resistance of the latter being large, the oscillations are quickly damped. Therefore his next modification was to place the arc gap as a short to the power supply, taking the arc gap out of the inside of the circuit, and placing it on the outside. Yet if Tesla had considered taking his original circuit, and producing a mirror image of it driven on the opposite side by the opposite half of a center tap secondary, he may have found the possibility I found, where an oscillation between series and parallel resonance could occur as an undamped free oscillation. Now because of the fact that the arc is a short to the power supply in the existing method, it does not go out, or extinguish itself easily. In fact that method represents an oscillation in and out of parallel resonance. No one has considered constructing a dual tesla primary as I suggest, which would be a oscillation BETWEEN series and parallel resonance so I a thinking about ways to make one for a demo. The NE Ohio Teslathon is now scheduled for the third Saturday Of September. Details at messageboard. Sincerely HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 22 12:33:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18565; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 12:32:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 12:32:42 -0700 Message-ID: <20000822193209.6032.qmail@web4404.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 12:32:09 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"LJQOZ2.0.uX4.QLjev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16535 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Theoretical Resonant Frequency of a Water Cell In accordance with the previous post on relative BRS voltages, the next step in imagination can entail disastor as I did this myself. I will describe this in context with the idea of keeping the arc gap, or short within the circuit. A value of water capacity in its liquid state cannot be measured with instruments because it is not exactly a true capacity because of the massive leakage current between plates, more properly it is a short with a capacitive reactance component. If we were to freeze a sample and then measure its capacitance, an estimation can be made of the capacitive reactance in liquid state by the ratios of different dielectric constants from solid to liquid state. Or using more common sense one could simply place that cell in series with a known inductive reactance, and finding the total amperage, compute the acting capacitive reactance by the observed current flow. That is the sensible thing to do. However what I did was to use that water capacity as the actual cap filter in the dc power to the coil. As a result it formed a short to the power supply and burned up the diodes! I had forgot to contain "the arc or short within the schematic" If this is done correctly that merely means no filters are used in the dc rectifier, and the value of the electrolysisor itself as an estimated capacitive reactance can then be used in a resonant combination with the L value used to restrict that amperage as occurs in a dead short condition of the cell. Now the state of the art Wiseman design uses capacitors in series with the {series cells} as the total load. I advocate using inductors AND capacitors in resonance instead. The commonsense argument against this are the I squared R losses of the inductor, so it is wise to see if benefits can outway disadvatages. >From the case example cited of using a 56 Henry coil and a electrolysisor in series, we can see that if that electrolysisor had a capacitive reactance equivalent to what a .003 us cap wiil give that electrolysisor would be dc resonant to the dc pulses. We might call this the Theoretical Resonant Value. Thus we can also see that this may not be a practical possibility either as each inductance as a load then has a different value for an electrolysisor to match it, therefore this consideration is by passed for now, and is only posted that it must be a possibility given experiments of induction arcs using similarly resonant cap values as a filter across the central diode connections in a full wave rectifier did produce powerful induction arcs. More importantly is the function of inductors phased in 180 series resonance as a BRS (Binary Resonant System) where if the electrolysisor is placed between the system's midpoints the function of transformers to deliver the correct voltage to the cell is circumvented by the fact that the resonant choke circuit will automatically regulate the voltage to be delivered. What this in turn means that formerly series cells were made to match the transformer input, but now a parallel plate design becomes practical. When this is done the electrolysisor itself is in the load as a tank circuit, therefore it experiences the same resonant rise of amperage that the circuit experiences. Since it is the amperage that creates electrolysis gases, this is a desirable consideration. Now all this is done only by having things done mirror image, hence the name binary resonant. If it were a single resonant branch attempting to be harnessed,there is no place to put the load, and if that load is placed in parallel to either L or C voltage rise, that in turn circumvents the resonant effect desired to be exploited. Again this is context of placing the arc or short within the schematic. The additional advantage of using series resonant air core coils for the purpose of transforming down of voltage is the possibility of also producing high frequency effects to the cell, something being explored. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 22 15:07:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA02030; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:05:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:05:58 -0700 Message-ID: <003a01c00c84$bfd38260$cb9801d4@default> From: "Gavin" To: "FG" Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 23:01:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01C00C8C.F53ACC80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"M90j4.0.ZV.6blev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16536 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit: More info and results. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C00C8C.F53ACC80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0036_01C00C8C.F53ACC80" ------=_NextPart_001_0036_01C00C8C.F53ACC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again, I built the simple circuit again but this time (I don't know why) I got = some results. The circuit and amplifier I used are in the attached .zip = file. With the last circuit I built (which was very marginally different = to that described in grav3; i.e. the improved circuit described) I ran = into problem when the QND capacitor was not connected in circuit. = However with the simple circuit there were no such problems; I have = concluded that there was too much amplification leading to feedback and = self oscillation. With the simple circuit there was not enough = amplification for this to occur; so I got to hear the signals reported = by Hodowanec in his article grav3.html. First of all, when I connected the QND capacitor into this circuit there = was not as much white noise as that generated by the original "improved = circuit" I built earlier. However, the other signals are much more = improved and appear to resemble those described by Hodowanec. The sounds were amplified via the audio amp attached, while I also sent = the signal to my laptop for spectral and oscillographic display. The = sounds heard are sort of worbles and low frequency beats with the = occasional ping sound. There are very definite waves or oscillations = present. With the circuit shown in the attached file there were several = frequency component present in it's output signal. First there was a = 133Hz "tone" which had 6.25Hz amplitude modulated upon it. The this was = added to a 0.34Hz signal of greater amplitude.=20 When the capacitor was changed to a lower value (i.e. 220nF), the = frequency (became higher) and form of the signal changed. Also altering = the 1M potentiometer would also change the frequency. It seems possible = that the circuit does oscillate providing a carrier for other signals? I = should be mentioned that there does seem to be some tuning action = involved with the adjustment of the 1M potentiometer. As you adjust it = some background signals do come into the foreground more. Another thing is that while you listen to the quiet chuffing noise = coming through the headphones, you do occasionally jump out of your skin = when a large ping sound suddenly appears........gravitational static? =20 I guess the best way to find out is to give it a try your self. If you = do, you may need to keep the following in mind. First the 1M = potentiometer should be one of those metallic screened type, otherwise = mains hum will be injected into the circuit when you adjust it. The = second thing is that my amplifier and circuit were separate, running off = of two separate batteries. If you build the whole thing in one box = powered from one battery, you may get some bad feedback oscillation. It = is imperative that you decouple your supply lines with a capacitor to = reduce this. Curiously I tried to do this with a 100uF/35V electrolytic = on the other circuit, it got hot, and yes it was in the right way round; = but if there were negative voltage transients occurring, the I guess = half the time it was the wrong way round Anyway that's it for now, I'll post some relevant URLs soon. Regards Gavin ------=_NextPart_001_0036_01C00C8C.F53ACC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi again,
I built the simple circuit again but this time (I don't know why) I = got=20 some results. The circuit and amplifier I used are in the attached .zip = file.=20 With the last circuit I built (which was very marginally different to = that=20 described in grav3; i.e. the improved circuit described) I ran into = problem when=20 the QND capacitor was not connected in circuit. However with the = simple=20 circuit there were no such problems; I have concluded that there was too = much=20 amplification leading to feedback and self oscillation. With the simple = circuit=20 there was not enough amplification for this to occur; so I got to hear = the=20 signals reported by Hodowanec in his article grav3.html.
 
First of all, when I connected the QND capacitor into this circuit = there=20 was not as much white noise as that generated by the original "improved = circuit"=20 I built earlier. However, the other signals are much more improved and = appear to=20 resemble those described by Hodowanec.
 
The sounds were amplified via the audio amp attached, while I also = sent the=20 signal to my laptop for spectral and oscillographic display. The sounds = heard=20 are sort of worbles and low frequency beats with the occasional ping = sound.=20 There are very definite waves or oscillations present. With the circuit = shown in=20 the attached file there were several frequency component present in it's = output=20 signal. First there was a 133Hz "tone" which had 6.25Hz amplitude = modulated upon=20 it. The this was added to a 0.34Hz signal of greater amplitude.
 
When the capacitor was changed to a lower value (i.e. 220nF), the = frequency=20 (became higher) and form of the signal changed. Also altering the = 1M=20 potentiometer would also change the frequency. It seems possible that = the=20 circuit does oscillate providing a carrier for other signals? I should = be=20 mentioned that there does seem to be some tuning action involved = with the=20 adjustment of the 1M potentiometer. As you adjust it some = background=20 signals do come into the foreground more.
Another thing is that while you listen to the quiet chuffing = noise=20 coming through the headphones, you do occasionally jump out of your skin = when a=20 large ping sound suddenly appears........gravitational static?
  
 
I guess the best way to find out is to give it a try your self. If = you do,=20 you may need to keep the following in mind. First the 1M potentiometer = should be=20 one of those metallic screened type, otherwise mains hum will be = injected into=20 the circuit when you adjust it. The second thing is that my amplifier = and=20 circuit were separate, running off of two separate batteries. If you = build the=20 whole thing in one box powered from one battery, you may get some bad = feedback=20 oscillation. It is imperative that you decouple your supply lines with a = capacitor to reduce this. Curiously I tried to do this with a 100uF/35V=20 electrolytic on the other circuit, it got hot, and yes it was in the = right way=20 round; but if there were negative voltage transients occurring, the I = guess half=20 the time it was the wrong way round
 
Anyway that's it for now, I'll post = some relevant=20 URLs soon.
 
Regards Gavin
 
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<001001c00caa$0903ee00$763dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:29:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C00C88.7EE694A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"q-gz_.0.3A4.MVpev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16537 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Electrostatic field mapping This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C00C88.7EE694A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen; An appeal for some engineering help here. In order to weed out = electrostatic or coulombic forces from electrogravity effects, I have = recently found a real need to map out electrical fields around shaped = electrodes, hemispheres, plates and dipoles. Does anyone know of any = easy to use downloadable software that can take a profile (2D or 3D) of = a conductive mass and map the E-field? I thought Jean Louis Naudin had = used something like this in the past. Thanks ahead of time, for any advice and help; Nick Reiter ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C00C88.7EE694A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gentlemen;
 
   An appeal for some = engineering help=20 here.  In order to weed out electrostatic or coulombic forces from=20 electrogravity effects, I have recently found a real need to map out = electrical=20 fields around shaped electrodes, hemispheres, plates and = dipoles. =20 Does anyone know of any easy to use downloadable software that can take = a=20 profile (2D or 3D) of a conductive mass and map the E-field?  I = thought=20 Jean Louis Naudin had used something like this in the past.
 
Thanks ahead of time, for any advice = and=20 help;
 
Nick Reiter
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C00C88.7EE694A0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 22 21:28:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA11839; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:27:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:27:57 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990124071629.00bef810@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 08:19:07 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Hodowanec Circuit: More info and results. In-Reply-To: <003a01c00c84$bfd38260$cb9801d4@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"BV3m22.0.ou2.CBrev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16538 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gavin: I took a look at your detector... You are probably amplifying noise that is riding on the -9V line. This would explain the feedback troubles. As the 741 current draw changes this will make noise on the power lines. Also if you are using batteries there may be some chemical reaction that you are listening to. I also looked at the circuit on Keelynet... I am thinking that a good low noise amp design will do better. Use methods that we already know will reduce 1/f noise leaving more room for the desired signal using several low gain stages and a good ground and all. This circuit uses the cap in an RC network to make the feedback negligible at higher frequency and max at DC If there is any weight to what Hodowanec has to say the cap should be the input device and be protected from any bias form the amplifier. Still looking for parts to build the simple detector. At 11:01 PM 8/22/00 +0100, you wrote: >Hi again, >I built the simple circuit again but this time (I don't know why) I got >some results. The <> Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 22 22:14:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA25158; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:13:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:13:45 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 00:16:48 -0600 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (JNPCo.) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA25100 Resent-Message-ID: <"sSO_G.0.x86.9srev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16540 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: JOSEPH NEWMAN'S ENERGY MACHINE TECHNOLOGY, Part II DESCRIPTION OF ONE ENERGY MACHINE DESIGN, PART II. continued --- The Stator The stator (collectively, the stator casing and coils) establishes a reference, and the rotor functions relative to the stator. The stator is the stationary mechanism that produces a magnetic field environment that induces rotation on the part of the rotor. The stator casing is constructed of a non-ferrous (non-magnetic) material such as aluminum which enables the magnetic flux density to pass freely into and out of the device. Although a solid casing is illustrated, an open frame may also be utilized as long as the armature coils are not shielded and the magnetic flux density produced by the coils is allowed to pass freely into and out of the device. The energy machine described herein is a bipolar device, therefore an identical coil configuration is implemented on both the top and the bottom halves of the stator casing. In a preferred design, eight coils are mounted on the outside of the stator casing, four on the top and four on the bottom, although a greater or lesser number of coils may be utilized. The primary consideration in the configuration and number of coils is the production of axially uniform, dense magnetic flux along the outer surface (the rotor-stator interface surface) of the rotor magnets, thereby producing a larger area for the MMF to operate against in producing torque. The coils, having at least 6,000 turns each of extremely thin (approximately 34 AWG gauge) wire, are wound as rectangles in each coil, and are then mounted on the stator casing. There is an average of 6,650 turns in each coil, utilizing 33,500 feet of 34 AWG gauge, teflon-coated copper wire per coil. In total, there are 53,200 turns and approximately 266,000 feet of wire in the eight coils. The coils are then connected in series to the external power source 15. The coils may also be connected in parallel, or in a parallel/series combination, if it is desired to increase the magnetic flux density within the stator casing in order to control the output of the energy machine. The extreme length of the wire creates a high resistance. The high resistance, however, does not create an operational constraint on the device since the input current in the present invention is measured in MILLIAMPRES rather than hundreds of amperes as is utilized in many conventional electric motors. The smaller current operates on a much LARGER NUMBER OF TURNS in the coil to produce the required MMF. A potential operational constraint on the maximum operational speed of the device does arise, however, as a result of the resistance of the wire. This limitation arises because of the presence of inductance in the coil circuit. The large number of turns in the coils produces a significant inductance (L), and a large resistance (R) together with a large inductance affects the time constant (L/R) of the coil. The time constant is the inductance of the coil divided by the resistance of the coil. The time constant determines the maximum rate at which the coil can deplete the magnetic energy that it is storing. In the coil configuration described, the coil has to dump its magnetic energy two times per revolution, and this can never occur faster than allowed by the time constant. The coil time constant is an inherent characteristic of the coil, but it is counteracted to a sufficient degree in the present invention by connecting a bank of gas-discharge (flourescent) light bulbs 19 in series with the resistance, and dumping the magnetic energy into this non-linear, capacitive, and voltage-limiting load. By inducing a resonating voltage-limiting load, the time constant (L/R) also goes down, enabling the coil to be dumped more quickly. Theoretically, if the capacitive reactance equals the inductive reactance, then the effect of the inductance is driven to zero, and the coil can be dumped instantly Winding the Coils As noted above, the wire utilized in the coils is extremely thin, and thus extremely fragile. Therefore, great care must be taken when winding each coil to avoid breaking the wire. In particular, care must be taken to avoid any slack in the wire which will cause the wire to snap if the slack is suddenly taken up. A drag mechanism is utilized to apply constant drag to the wire's supply spool regardless of the diameter of wire remaining on the spool as the wire is pulled off the spool and wound onto the coil. When winding each coil, the wire is essentially wrapped around the perimeter of a properly sized rectangle. The rectangular shape of the coil requires that additional steps be taken to avoid breaking the wire. A rectangular jig is configured and mounted in a centered position on a coil winding machine. Since the jig is rectangular, the radial distance from the central axis of the coil winding machine to the perimeter of the jig varies significantly as the jig rotates. It is preferable that the wire be pulled off the supply spool at an exit angle of 90° relative to the spool axis rather than at varying angles, in order to avoid putting extra stress on the wire. Therefore, the wire must either be run through a pulley system which accounts for the changing position of the perimeter of the jig, or the spool must be mounted a sufficient distance from the jig so that the change in the exit angle of the wire is minimized. If the spool is mounted a long distance from the jig, intermediate supports must be provided to prevent any significant droop (slack) from forming in the wire. The coil winding machine should also be equipped with a variable speed control in order to slow down the rotation of the jig as the diameter of the wire on the supply spool is reduced and the coil diameter increases. Otherwise, the RPMs of the spool increase, making it difficult to maintain constant tension on the wire. Care should also be taken to avoid exceeding the snap slack strength of the wire when each corner of the rectangular jig is passed, the wire is laid along the following side of the rectangle, and the next corner is rotated into contact with the wire. The coil winding RPM must be kept slow enough to avoid snapping the wire. A plurality of non-magnetic, L-shaped brackets 24 are mounted longitudinally on the stator casing. The brackets are spaced around the circumference of the stator casing to provide proper spacing of the coils. The stator casing is constructed of a non-magnetic material such as 6061 aluminum which enables the magnetic flux density to pass freely into and out of the device. The magnetic field produced by the externally mounted coils provides intense magnetic flux density in the interior of the stator casing. The stator casing has an inside diameter of approximately 6.25 inches, and is approximately 37.5 inches long. In another design of the energy machine, the stator casing and rotor are sized so that the coils may be mounted on the inner surface of the non-magnetic stator casing. In both designs, the maximum gap 25 between the outer surface of any one of the permanent magnets and a coil directly overlying the magnet is approximately 0.4 inches. The Rotor The rotor shaft 18 is longitudinally mounted in the center of the stator casing. The widest diameter of the rotor is 5.85 inches, leaving just 0.2 inches clearance between the outer surface of the rotor (and the permanent magnets) and the inside surface of the stator casing. The permanent magnets are mounted in six slots around the circumference of the rotor so that the top surface of each magnet is flush with the widest outside diameter of the rotor. There are 54 grade 35 neodymium iron-boron magnets, each of which is 2 inches long, 2 inches wide, and 0.5 inch high. Set screws are utilized to adjacently mount the magnets in the slots to form six rectangular bars comprising 9 magnets each. Thus, bars are formed which are approximately 18 inches long, 2 inches wide, and 0.5 inch high. The magnets are mounted in two groups of three bars, with the magnets in each group being mounted on opposite sides of the rotor and in opposite polarity. For example, three contiguous bars are mounted with their north poles facing radially outward from the center of the shaft, and the other three contiguous magnets are mounted with their south poles facing radially outward from the center of the shaft. This configuration provides one large pole-pair of magnets on the rotor. Each group of three magnets produces a resultant magnetic vector which essentially places the magnetic pole for the magnet grouping over the center magnet in the group. Grade 35 neodymium iron-boron magnets are utilized because they have extremely high magnetic strength, with superior flux density and high magnetic field intensity for their size and mass. Additionally, neodymium iron-boron magnets are manufactured items, providing flexibility in their specified size, shape, and magnetic field strength. Their availability is also more assured than naturally occurring magnets which have to be discovered and mined. Magnets suitable for use in the energy machine may be ordered as part number 35NE2812832 (grade 35 neodymium iron-boron magnets) from Magnet Sales and Manufacturing Company, 11248 Playa Court, Culver City, Calif. 90203. These magnets have a closed circuit magnetic flux density of 12,300 gauss, and an intrinsic magnetic field intensity of 11,300 oersteds. Since neodymium iron-boron magnets may be manufactured in different sizes and shapes, different permanent magnet configurations may be implemented while still achieving the benefits of the energy machine invention. For example, instead of configuring the magnets into three bar magnets in each group, magnets with their north pole facing outward may be mounted to completely cover almost one-half of the rotor surface. In effect, this creates a curved magnet on one side of the rotor with the magnet's north pole as its outer convex surface. Magnets with their south pole facing outward may be mounted to cover most of the other half of the rotor surface. In effect, that creates a curved magnet on the other side of the rotor with the magnet's south pole as its outer convex surface. The configuration of one energy machine design was selected as optimum based on the cost of the neodymium iron-boron magnets and the magnetic flux density produced. Extremely strong neodymium iron-boron magnets also provide flexibility in the overall design of the energy machine. What is desired in the overall design is to achieve a specified level of interaction between the magnetic field of the permanent magnets and the magnetic field generated by the coils. The specified level of interaction is the level at which the motor produces useful mechanical energy while the time rate of change of flux linkages develops sufficient counter-electrical voltage to charge the external battery power source. The magnetic field intensity of the neodymium iron-boron magnets provides some degree of flexibility in the design of the coils as well as the voltage applied to the coils because their strength offers a wider range of interaction. The coil magnetic intensity can be significantly lower than the intensity of the permanent magnets, equal to, or significantly greater than the intensity of the permanent magnets. The intensity of the coil magnetic field can be controlled to fall anywhere in this range in order to control the output of the energy machine. Magnets of lesser strength can therefore be utilized, but the range of control will be proportionally less. The range of control provided by the intense magnetic strength of the neodymium iron-boron magnets additionally allows the coils to be connected in parallel rather than in series to selectively control the coil magnetic field intensity. Like the stator casing, the rotor is also constructed of a non-magnetic material which is preferably aluminum. The permanent magnets are mounted in the section of the rotor having the widest diameter. Six slots 22 are provided for mounting the permanent magnets. One section of the rotor shaft is utilized to mount the commutator. As in any electric motor, when a current is started in the coils, a magnetic polarity is established. For example, by applying a current in one direction in one set of coils, and in the same direction in another set of coils, a magnetic field may be established within the stator casing in which the north pole is up, and the south pole is down. The opposite polarity (south pole up and north pole down) is also possible. If the magnetic polarity is aligned with the magnetic polarity of the permanent magnets on the rotor, the rotor tries to line up. In other words, if the three permanent magnets with their north magnetic poles facing outward are near the top of the rotor shaft, and the three permanent magnets with their south poles facing outward are near the bottom of the shaft, the permanent magnets will be repelled by the like magnetic poles of the magnetic field from the coils. This causes the shaft to rotate. As the shaft passes the 90° point, there is maximum torque on the shaft as the permanent magnets with their north poles facing outward are repelled by the north pole of the coil magnetic field while they are attracted by the south pole of the coil magnetic field. Likewise, the permanent magnets with their south poles facing outward are repelled by the south pole of the coil magnetic field while they are attracted by the north pole of the coil magnetic field. If nothing else is done, the rotation of the rotor shaft will stop when the resultant magnetic vector of the permanent magnets achieves alignment with the magnetic poles of the magnetic field from the coils (i.e., when the center magnet of opposite polarity reaches the coil magnetic pole). This is the point of commutation. The Commutator For motor action, the rotation must continue past the point of commutation. Therefore, just before the resultant magnetic vector of the permanent magnets achieves alignment with the magnetic poles of the magnetic field from the coils, the polarity of the magnetic field from the coils is reversed (commutated). The momentum of the rotating shaft carries the permanent magnets past the commutation point during the time period that the commutation is taking place. The commutation is a three-step process. First, the electrical energy being supplied to the coils is disconnected. Second, most of the energy in the coils (at least 95%) is discharged so that the magnetic field RAPIDLY COLLAPSES. The energy may be discharged into a capacitive and voltage-limiting load such as a bank of flourescent lamps. Finally, the energy is reapplied to the coils with the OPPOSITE polarity. At this point, the permanent magnets are again out of alignment with the magnetic field of the coils by approximately 180°, and once again, the realignment process is started by rotating the rotor shaft. The timing and control of the polarity shift is VERY CRITICAL (as described in his book, THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN), and that is the PURPOSE of the commutator. The commutator is a cylindrically-shaped disk which is mounted on the rotor shaft. The disk is constructed of a non-conductive insulating material such as epoxy. Contact strips are mounted around the circumference of the commutator. As the commutator rotates on the rotor shaft, the contact strips are contacted by stationary contactors in order to apply power to the coils, discharge the coils, and control the timing of the commutation. The strips are, of course, continuous strips around the circumference of the commutator. As the commutator rotates on the rotor shaft, the contactors move from right to left along the contact strips. Commutation is a three-step process: (1) disconnect the power source, (2) discharge the coils, and (3) reapply the power source with the opposite polarity. There are positive and negative power strips, respectively, which are utilized to apply power of a given polarity to the coils. These strips are continuous strips with no breaks around the circumference of the commutator. The 2nd and 4th strips are positive and negative discharge strips which are utilized to discharge the energy from the coils during commutation, and send the energy to a capacitive and voltage-limiting load such as flourescent lamps. These strips are continuous strips with no breaks around the circumference of the commutator. Since the first, second, fourth, and fifth strips are continuous with no breaks around the circumference of the commutator, the contactors which contact these strips can be placed at any location around the circumference. The third strip is the timing and control strip, and comprises four segments. A break of approximately 1/8th inch is placed between each segment to prevent high voltage arching between the segments. The first and third segments are located 180° from each other around the circumference of the commutator, as are the second and fourth segments. While the contactor for the third strip is in contact with the first segment, positive power is applied to the coils through the first strip in order to produce a magnetic field of a first polarity. The first segment of the third strip is connected to the positive power (first strip) by tunneling under the second strip through the epoxy body of the commutator. Following a 1/8th-inch break, the contactor contacts the second segment which is connected to discharge (second strip) which controls the discharge of the positive coil energy into the bank of flourescent lamps. Following another 1/8th-inch break, the contactor contacts the third segment which is connected to negative power (fifth strip) by tunneling under the fourth strip through the epoxy body of the commutator. The third segment controls the application of negative power to the coils in order to produce a magnetic field of a second and opposite polarity of that produced by the first segment. Following another 1/8th-inch break, the contactor contacts the fourth segment which is connected to discharge (4th strip) and controls the discharge of the negative coil energy into the flourescent lamps. Following a final 1/8th-inch break, the contactor returns to the first strip, and the cycle is repeated. For proper timing and adequate separation of segments to prevent high voltage arching, the commutator has a diameter of nine (9) inches. With the coil configuration described, commutation is performed every 180° of shaft rotation, thereby producing a pulsating torque. This pulsation can be reduced by configuring additional sets of coils around the circumference of the stator casing. For example, with two pairs of coils mounted orthogonally, commutation is performed every 90° of shaft rotation. Likewise, with three pairs of coils mounted equidistant around the circumference, commutation is performed every 60° of shaft rotation. The Power Source As originally taught by Joseph Newman, the magnitude of the current is kept EXTREMELY SMALL and the number of COIL TURNS is MAXIMIZED in order to produce the same MMF as conventional electric motors utilizing high current inputs. The energy machine has been shown to operate satisfactorily with electrical inputs of approximately 450 volts and milliamperes; 900 volts and 30 milliamperes; and 1,350 volts and 30 milliamperes. In general, voltages greater than 450 volts and currents in the range of 3040 milliamperes should produce satisfactory performance with the configuration described. In one energy machine design, the power source includes a voltage multiplier and a wet cell. The voltage multiplier is a regulated, voltage-controlled, voltage multiplier that produces an output voltage which is variable from 0 to 5,000 volts at 30 to 40 milliamps (maximum). The wet cell, such as a 12-volt automobile battery, is connected to the voltage multiplier to absorb the unsafe portion of the negative back-spike which is produced at the point of commutation. Alternatively, the voltage multiplier can be replaced by a bank of 9-volt batteries connected in series to produce the input voltage and current. For example, fifty (50) 9-volt batteries connected in series produce an input of 450 volts and 30 milliamps; one hundred (100) 9-volt batteries connected in series produce an input of 900 volts and 30 milliamps; and one hundred and fifty (150) 9-volt batteries connected in series produce an input of 1,350 volts and 30 milliamps. The Control Unit The control unit is integrated with the power source. In an example where a bank of 9-volt batteries is employed, the batteries may be loaded in battery drawers, each drawer containing, for example, fifty (50) 9-volt batteries connected in series. The resulting output of each drawer is approximately 450 volts at 30-40 milliamperes. A series of switches are utilized to selectively connect battery drawers into the circuit. A main switch opens and closes the main circuit. The wet cell is connected in series with the battery bank to absorb the NEGATIVE BACK-SPIKE produced at the point of commutation. There are many variables in the design of the energy machine, and each variable may fall within an acceptable range of values which depends on the other variables in the design. For example, the input voltage to the coils can change, depending on the configuration of the coils and the strength of the permanent magnets on the rotor. Any combination, however, should result in a device which produces a NET POSITIVE GENERAGED VOLTAGE (and current to a resistive load) while the device is operating as a MOTOR (i.e., producing a NET POSITIVE OUTPUT TORQUE) in keeping with Joseph Newman's teachings. The operation and construction of one example of the energy machine should be apparent from the above description. The apparatus and method illustrates a D.C. device in which the permanent magnets are mounted on the rotor, and two sets of coils are mounted on the stator. It will be readily apparent, however, that various changes and modifications can be made to construct an A.C. device, a device with additional sets of coils, or a device with its coils mounted on the rotor and its permanent magnets mounted on the stator without departing from the scope of the technology. Joseph Newman does seek to commercialize the technology, but it takes capital to produce commercial versions of the technology that are constructed within close-tolerances and can operate at very high rpms. Joseph Newman is one human being --- he is not a well-funded multi-national corporation or a large university and he has never applied for nor sought a "federal grant" at the expense of the taxpayer. All he has sought is the equal opportunity to protect his invention in the American marketplace via the patent system created by those who are responsible for the U.S. Constitution. Ironically, it would not cost the American a SINGLE PENNY to issue Joseph Newman a patent for his invention, yet federal bureaucrats have spent MILLIONS of dollars of taxpayer monies fighting AGAINST the technology. The above information represents further evidence that Joseph Newman should receive a patent for his more than 35 years of original thought, research, and experimentation. www.josephnewman.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 22 22:15:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA25064; Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:13:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:13:30 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 00:16:37 -0600 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (JNPCo.) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA25034 Resent-Message-ID: <"ianov.0.T76.wrrev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16539 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: JOSEPH NEWMAN'S ENERGY MACHINE TECHNOLOGY, Part I THE FOLLOWING IS INFORMATION RELATING TO JOSEPH NEWMAN'S PIONEERING ENERGY MACHINE TECHNOLOGY: GENERAL DESCRIPTION: In essence this technology represents an electromechanical energy conversion machine and a method of electromagnetically converting electrical energy to mechanical energy and electrical energy. The machine comprises a stator; a rotor; a direct current power source; a commutator, and flourescent lamps acting as a non-linear, capacitive, voltage-limiting load. Four armature coils of a first magnetic polarity are concentrically mounted on a first side of the outer surface of a non-magnetic cylindrical stator casing, and four armature coils of an opposite polarity are concentrically mounted on an opposite side of the stator casing. Each coil is wound with an average of 6,650 turns of 34 AWG gauge teflon-coated wire. The rotor is constructed of non-magnetic material, and is rotationally mounted in the stator casing. A plurality of neodymium iron-boron permanent magnets are circumferentially mounted on the rotor. The magnets on a first side of the rotor are mounted with a first outward polarity, and the magnets on an opposite side of the rotor are mounted with an opposite outward polarity. The power source is connected to the coils and produces an output of 0-5,000 volts at 30 to 40 milliamperes maximum. The flourescent lamps are connected to the coils for rapidly dumping magnetic energy from the coils when the polarity is reversed. The commutator reverses the polarity of the first and second coils every 180° of rotor rotation, and guides the magnetic energy from the coils to the load. DETAILED DESCRIPTION: Examples of the technology include an energy machine comprising: a stator consisting of a first coil of a first magnetic polarity mounted on a first side of the stator and a second coil of an opposite polarity mounted on an opposite side of the stator; a rotor rotationally mounted in the stator, the rotor including at least two permanent magnets mounted circumferentially thereon, a first magnet on a first side of the rotor having a first outward polarity and a second magnet on an opposite side of the rotor having an outward polarity opposite the first polarity; a direct current power source connected to the coils, the output of the power source being at least 450 volts in a range of 30 to 40 milliamperes; a switching device that reverses the polarity of the first and second coils every 180° of rotor rotation; and a non-linear, capacitive, voltage-limiting load connected to the coils for rapidly dumping magnetic energy from the coils when the switching device reverses the polarity of the first and second coils. The energy machine features a switching device which is a commutator that includes a means for guiding the magnetic energy from the coils to the non-linear, capacitive, voltage-limiting load. The first coil comprises four individual coils of the first polarity, and the second coil comprises four individual coils of the opposite polarity. In one particular example of the technology, each individual coil comprises at least 6,000 turns of approximately 34 AWG gauge teflon-coated wire. The stator includes a cylindrical stator casing constructed entirely of non-magnetic material with the stator casing having an inner surface and an outer surface, and the first and second coils being mounted on the outer surface of the stator casing. The four individual coils of the first polarity are similar rectangular coils concentrically mounted on the first side of the stator casing, and the four individual coils of the opposite polarity are similar rectangular coils concentrically mounted on the opposite side of the stator casing. The rotor is constructed of a non-magnetic material. There are at least two permanent magnets that comprise two groups of magnets: a first group on a first side of the rotor in which each magnet has a first outward polarity; and a second group on an opposite side of the rotor in which each magnet has an outward polarity opposite the first polarity. Each of the plurality of permanent magnets has an outer surface, and the rotor has a diameter such that a total distance measured between the outer surface of any one of the permanent magnets and a coil directly overlying the magnet is approximately 0.4 inches. The permanent magnets are grade 35 neodymium iron-boron magnets. Additionally, the energy machine consists of a stator comprising a first coil of a first magnetic polarity mounted on a first side of the stator and a second coil of an opposite polarity mounted on an opposite side of the stator; a rotor rotationally mounted in the stator, the rotor includes at least two permanent magnets mounted circumferentially thereon, a first magnet on a first side of the rotor having a first outward polarity, and a second magnet on an opposite side of the rotor having an outward polarity opposite the first polarity; a direct current power source connected to the coils, the output of the power source being at least 450 volts in a range of 30 to 40 milliamperes; the power source comprises a regulated, voltage-controlled voltage multiplier, a wet cell connected in series with the voltage multiplier, and a switching device that reverses the polarity of the first and second coils every 180° of rotor rotation. Also, the energy machine consists of a stator comprising a first coil of a first magnetic polarity mounted on a first side of the stator and a second coil of an opposite polarity mounted on an opposite side of the stator; a rotor rotationally mounted in the stator, the rotor includes at least two permanent magnets mounted circumferentially thereon, a first magnet on a first side of the rotor having a first outward polarity, and a second magnet on an opposite side of the rotor having an outward polarity opposite the first polarity; a direct current power source connected to the coils, the output of the power source being at least 450 volts in a range of 30 to 40 milliamperes, the power source comprises a bank of batteries connected in series to produce at least 450 volts at 30 to 40 milliamperes, a wet cell connected in series with the bank of batteries, and a switching device that reverses the polarity of the first and second coils every 180° of rotor rotation. Also, the energy machine consists of a stator comprising: a cylindrical stator casing constructed of non-magnetic material, the stator casing having an inner surface and an outer surface; a first armature coil of a first magnetic polarity comprising four similar rectangular coils concentrically mounted on a first side of the outer surface of the stator casing, each rectangular coil comprising at least 6,000 turns of approximately 34 AWG gauge teflon-coated wire; and a second armature coil of a polarity opposite the first polarity comprising four similar rectangular coils concentrically mounted on a side of the outer surface of the stator casing opposite the first side, each rectangular coil comprising at least 6,000 turns of approximately 34 AWG gauge teflon-coated wire; a rotor constructed of non-magnetic material rotationally mounted in the stator casing, the rotor including a plurality of permanent magnets mounted circumferentially thereon; the magnets on a first side of the rotor have a first outward polarity, and the magnets on an opposite side of the rotor have an opposite outward polarity. Each of the plurality of permanent magnets have an outer surface, and the rotor has a diameter such that a total distance measured between the outer surface of any one of the permanent magnets and a coil directly overlying the magnet is approximately 0.4 inches. There is a direct current power source connected to the coils with the power source comprising a regulated, voltage-controlled voltage multiplier with an output of 0-5,000 volts at 40 milliamperes maximum; a wet cell connected in series with the voltage multiplier; a non-linear, capacitive, voltage-limiting load connected to the coils for rapidly dumping magnetic energy from the coils; a commutator consisting of a means for reversing the polarity of the first and second coils every 180° of rotor rotation; and a means for guiding the magnetic energy from the coils to the non-linear, capacitive, voltage-limiting load prior to reversal of the polarity. There is a non-magnetic cylindrical stator casing that has an outer surface and an inner surface. There are a plurality of armature coils mounted on the outer surface of the stator casing with the armature coils comprising at least one coil of a first magnetic polarity on a first side of the stator casing and at least one coil of an opposite polarity on an opposite side of the stator casing. The armature coils produce a magnetic field which is not shielded by the stator casing. A rotor is rotationally mounted along the longitudinal axis of the cylindrical stator casing and the rotor has a plurality of permanent magnets mounted circumferentially thereon. The magnets on a first side of the rotor have a first outward polarity, and the magnets on an opposite side of the rotor have an outward polarity opposite the first outward polarity. A direct current power source is connected to the coils with the output of the power source being variable from 0 to 5,000 volts at a maximum current of approximately 40 milliamperes. Moreover, a non-linear, capacitive, voltage-limiting load is connected to the coils for rapidly dumping magnetic energy from the coils, and a commutator operates to reverse the polarities of the armature coils in a manner so as to rotate the rotor. Each of the plurality of permanent magnets in the energy machine has an outer surface and a total distance measured between the outer surface of any one of the permanent magnets and a coil directly overlying the magnet is approximately 0.4 inches. The armature coil comprises four coils of the first polarity and four coils of the second polarity. Each coil of the first polarity and each coil of the second polarity is wound with at least 6,000 turns of wire which is approximately 34 AWG gauge. The plurality of permanent magnets are grade 35 neodymium iron-boron magnets. The direct current power source comprises a regulated, voltage-controlled voltage multiplier and a wet cell connected in series with the voltage multiplier. ADDITIONAL DESCRIPTION OF ENERGY MACHINE PROTOTYPES: The vital link between the electrical and mechanical energy systems of an electric motor/generator is the magnetic field. The magnetic field can be produced by a system of permanent magnets, by a system of electrically energized coils, or by a combination of the above. According to Faraday's law, the voltage induced in a coil of wire by a changing magnetic flux is determined by the equation: e = -dN.PHI./dt = -d.lambda./dt where N is the number of coil turns, .PHI. is the magnetic flux (webers), and .lambda.=N.PHI. is the coil flux linkage. Thus, the voltage induced in the coil equals the number of coil turns times the time rate of change of the flux linking the coils, and its polarity is opposite of the flux gradient. Stated another way, the voltage induced in a coil of wire equals the time rate of change of flux linkages, and its polarity is opposite of the flux gradient. This induced voltage regulates the power drawn from (or supplied to) the electrical energy source connected to the motor-generator. The magnetic field (represented by (.PHI. or .lambda.) induces this dynamic voltage and also develops the mechanical output torque. In the present invention, the non-constant, non-sinusoidal, near-exponential time rate of change of flux linkages develops a COUNTER ELECTROMOTIVE FORCE (emf) or COUNTER VOLTAGE which SPIKES at the POINT OF COMMUTATION. This counter voltage, when integrated over time, produces a NET POSITIVE GENERATED VOLTAGE (and current to a resistive load) as innovated by Joseph Newman and as originally described in both his fundamental book -- THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN, published in 1984 and his Patent Application of 1979. As a consequence, a GENERATOR action is developed WHILE the present invention is operating as a MOTOR, i.e., producing a NET POSITIVE OUTPUT TORQUE fully in accordance with Joseph Newman's original teachings as first developed beginning in 1965 and as applied for in his original patent application of 1979. The torque developed in the present invention results from the attraction and repulsion between magnetic poles on the rotor and stator. Since like poles produce a mechanical force of repulsion, and unlike poles produce a mechanical force of attraction, a rotor north pole situated between the stator north and south poles will experience a net mechanical force away from the stator north pole and an additive mechanical force of attraction towards the stator south pole. In order that a continuous torque in the same direction be produced, the rotor must have the same number of poles as the stator, and there must be an even number of poles (i.e., every north pole must be associated with a complementary south pole). In a D.C. motor-generator, maximum torque is produced in the rotor when the rotor poles are 90 degrees displaced (magnetically) from the stator poles. When the rotor north pole is aligned with the stator south pole, the magnetic angular displacement is zero (0) degrees. A displacement of 180 degrees occurs when the rotor north pole and stator north pole are aligned. In the energy machine example of the present invention, the armature winding is on the stator. The magnetic field, produced by high strength permanent magnets mounted on the rotor, produces a magnetic flux that cuts the coil windings of the armature as the rotor turns. Electrical energy is supplied to, and derived from, the armature windings by a system of commutation bars and slip rings that compel the stator poles to remain configured such that A NET POSITIVE TORQUE IS PRODUCED THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE 360 DEGREE MOVEMENT OF THE ROTOR. Since the rotor, operating in the steady-state, is designed to unidirectionally rotate, then a unidirectional rotating magnetic field is thereby established in the armature winding. As noted above, in the classical motor, the armature winding typically consists of A FEW TURNS of relatively thick wire in order to support the flow of large armature currents to deliver the desired torque. Large armature currents are utilized because classical equations suggest that the rotor torque is directly proportional to the armature current. For example, the equation for power, the time rate of doing work, is classically recognized as: P = T.omega. = Eg Ia = K.OMEGA.Ia .PHI. where T is rotor torque, .omega. is rotor speed, Eg is the average value of the induced voltage as viewed from the commutator brushes, Ia is the armature D.C. current external to the motor, K is an armature constant, .OMEGA. is armature speed (i.e., the armature commutation rate), and .PHI. is magnetic field flux. Thus, power may be defined as (1) rotor torque times rotor speed, (2) generated armature voltage times armature current, or (3) the armature constant times the product of armature speed, armature current, and field flux. Eg cannot be actually measured because it assumes that the distributed resistance of the armature is not present. However, Eg can be approximated as the no-load value of the brush voltage when the machine is operated purely as a generator. In addition, it is clearly recognized that the armature current in all D.C. machines is an A.C. value. This is required in order to maintain uniformity between stator and rotor poles so that torque is optimized for every value of armature current. Rearranging the above equation to express torque yields: T = K'Ia where K' is a constant comprising the armature constant, the ratio of the armature commutation rate to rotor speed, and a constant field flux. This equation states that for a constant field flux, as produced by the permanent magnets implanted on the rotor, rotor torque is directly proportional to armature current, when rotor speed is a parameter. Thus, conventional electric motor design has focused on designs which enable the use of large armature currents. The present invention is a high efficiency energy machine which utilizes an unconventional configuration and unconventional operating parameters to achieve high efficiency operation. In the present invention, the armature winding consists of A VERY LARGE NUMBER OF TURNS OF VERY THIN WIRE. This high number of armature turns, and the thin wire, produce a very high coil resistance. Also, several of these coils are connected in series at any one time between the armature brushes of the energy machine. The application of several thousand volts to the armature brushes produces an armature current of ONLY A FEW MILLIAMPRES (mA), as originally described in Joseph Newman's fundamental book. At any given rotor speed, the shift of the angle of the induced armature voltage is the angle which has a tangent equal to the product of the rotor speed and armature coil inductance divided by armature resistance. That is, tan.alpha.=.omega.L/R, where a is the relative angle shift (actual angle shift is 90°-.alpha.) in radians, .omega. is the rotor speed, L is the armature coil inductance in henrys, and R is armature coil resistance in ohms. The time-delayed induced voltage of this shift, modulated by the net effect of the products of commutation, produces an armature coil voltage-current resultant that delivers electrical power to the externally applied source. Therefore, generator action is produced while the energy machine is operating as a motor. In large part, much of the description of the operation of the invention can be understood by thinking of the invention as an electrical transformer that has a component that rotates. What makes the present invention different from any other electric motor, however, is its EFFICIENCY of operation. Its operation is very much like any other motor with the exception that at least one principle of its operation is diametrically opposed to conventional electric motor design theory and standards. In the development of magneto motive force (MW), it is conventionally taught that it is desirable to have a HIGH CURRENT operating on some coil turns. Higher currents then produce higher MMF and more rotational mechanical energy out of the motor. In the present invention, however, the magnitude of current is KEPT EXTREMELY SMALL in keeping with the teachings of Joseph Newman, and the number of COIL TURNS is MAXIMIZED in order to produce, in essence, the same MMF. In addition, the configuration of the coils produces uniform, dense magnetic flux throughout the region of rotor rotation, thereby producing a larger area for the MMF to operate against in producing torque. Many of the operational characteristics stated for the energy machine assume linearity of the magnetic medium. In order to assure linearity, non-ferrous materials are used in nearly every area of the machine's construction including the main shaft, the casing, and commutator bars. This also allows the coil magnetic field to not only extend through the region of rotor rotation, but also to extend externally from the device into surrounding space. Unique designs of each of the components, and an unconventional overall configuration, contribute to the HIGH EFFICIENCY achieved by the energy machine. The energy machine comprises a stator casing which has a plurality of coils mounted thereon, a rotor, a commutator, an external power source, and a control unit. The rotor includes a plurality of permanent magnets mounted around a rotor shaft. A bank of flourescent lamps may also be included for rapid dumping of the magnetic energy of the coils during commutation. A plurality of stationary contactors are utilized to make and break connections on the commutator, thereby controlling the application of power from the power source, and controlling the dumping of the coil magnetic energy to the flourescent lamps. DESCRIPTION OF ONE ENERGY MACHINE DESIGN, continued in Part II --- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 23 01:26:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA01415; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 01:26:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 01:26:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 04:26:06 -0400 Message-Id: <200008230826.EAA06282@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Free Energy 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"kZ56a2.0.rL.bguev"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16541 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com CJ writes: >I use Eudora pro myself... haven't had a problem with email formats since >I started. but I am pretty sure that the Netscape mailer (3.0 and higher) >shows in line images if you set it in your preferences. That's true, but there are well documented and easy to access holes in Netscape that allow Java programs to be launched from html e-mail messages. That's why I don't use it for e-mail. I've had a couple of disks trashed completely, and lost a lot of stuff in partially successful attacks, and I process so much mail in a day, that I just don't need the hassle. Simple ASCII e-mail with JPEG or GIF attachments are just as easy to do, and present no risk at all to the recipients. You, BTW, and a few others need to turn off your html capabilities when sending e-mail to lists like this. It nearly triples the message size in most cases which is bad for everyone, and you can pass along virii inadvertantly if your computer becomes infected. It has happened before on a couple of lists that I've been on, and while I never have gotten bit this way, it really was not appreciated by the people that did. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 23 10:22:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA11405; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:20:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:20:30 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000823113327.009556a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:20:51 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford In-Reply-To: <200008230826.EAA06282@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"rLIB-.0.wn2.UV0fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16542 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: HTML content in email Knuke: I will change the settings on my mail. I did not realize that I was causing any problems. On the subject of viewing the in line images. I am pretty sure that Eudora lite offers a filename up where the image was removed so that you can view these images in with a viewing program. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 23 11:42:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA06630; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:39:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:39:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:38:58 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: sciclub-list@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-GlqB2.0.Ld1.Wf1fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16543 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: $10.95, high voltage got expensive! On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, William Beaty wrote: > How about this: a small, safe 7,500 volt DC power supply for $3.99 ! > http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=2713 Arrg! M. Foster just pointed out that E.G. raised the price of the 7.5KV power supply to $10.95. This means that All Electronics again has the lowest price: $4.50 http://www.allelectronics.com/online-store/scstore/shophome.html IONIZER Seawise Industrial Ltd. Model # SW750. Input: 120 Vac. Output: 7.5 KVDC The main component in a household ionization unit. 2.2" x 1" x 0.86" thick with a mounting tab that extends 0.75" from the unit. UL recognized. Catalog # SW-750 Price: $ 4.50 Electronics Goldmine also has a battery powered 15KV supply for $12.95 12VDC ion generator (15KV output) http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=2149 This one is VERY INTERSTING, because if the entire device (including the battery) is isolated in a thick plastic box, then the battery connections become the positive HV terminal. To convert the device to a positive 15KV power supply, simply connect the negative HV lead to earth, and use either battery terminal as the +15KV terminal. Note that if you add a switch to the battery circuit, the switch will need to be isolated on the end of a long plastic rod. Even better, if you give each module its own battery, you can stack them in series to attain a much higher voltage. At $13/15KV, a 100KV power supply would cost $83 bucks! Since the modules supposedly will operate with a single 9V battery, it wouldn't take much to build a megavolt stack. Turn on each battery with a small rotary switch, and connect the switches mechanically in series so a single rod can turn them all on. Zap! ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 23 19:13:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA21121; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:12:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:12:59 -0700 Message-ID: <005801c00d70$6defbc60$766bd9d0@58hde> From: "Robert" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: JOSEPH NEWMAN'S ENERGY MACHINE TECHNOLOGY, Part I Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 21:09:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"1GSht.0.r95.hI8fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16544 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com "Nothing like a good experiment to upset a theory" ----- Original Message ----- From: JNPCo. To: Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 1:16 AM Subject: [FG]: JOSEPH NEWMAN'S ENERGY MACHINE TECHNOLOGY, Part I You said: (See Below) The > flourescent lamps are connected to the coils for rapidly dumping magnetic > energy from the coils when the polarity is reversed. The commutator > reverses the polarity of the first and second coils every 180° of rotor > rotation, and guides the magnetic energy from the coils to the load. Dear Sir, Perhaps... the Teachings of Joe Newman could use this schematic to prevent wastefull dumping of magnetic energy from the coils when the polarity is reversed. It is free...use it or not. http://www.keelynet.com/bedmot/callow1.htm Regards, Robert H. Calloway From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 23 22:34:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA12051; Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:33:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:33:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000823223637.2b0fd71e@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:36:37 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Ionizer module In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20000819133134.2e5f44d6@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"sPW1j1.0.Cy2.qEBfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16545 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bill and all, >Here's a possible way to determine which wire is "ground": figure out a >way to detect whether there is a 120v sine wave riding on the 7KV line, >then connect the black and white wires to the wall outlet first with black >to hot, then switch the leads so white goes to hot. When you see 120v >riding on the 7KV, then whatever wire is connected to the AC hot at the >time, that is the ionizer's "common" wire. Using a crude AC voltage divider, an air space to a scope probe, it doesn't seem easy to identify which lead is the return, but it doesn't matter I guess. DC is also coupled this way by the electron/ion flow, even with a 1 meg scope input R. I also pointed to ionizer tips to a candle flame to hear more the inverter frequencies. They appear to be supersonic, as expected, could hear a few beat frequencies, as well as the 120Hz modulation. The flame plasma kills the ion wind when brought close to the tips. The current seems limited to about 50 microamps, or a resistance of any load >150 megohm. Resistors arte cheap, I may wire many in series as a voltage divider. -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 24 00:01:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA30504; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 00:00:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 00:00:49 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 03:00:44 -0400 Message-Id: <200008240700.DAA11968@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: HTML content in email Resent-Message-ID: <"OaoZ2.0.XS7.WWCfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16546 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Knuke: > >I will change the settings on my mail. I did not realize that I was >causing any problems. > >On the subject of viewing the in line images. I am pretty sure that Eudora >lite offers a filename up where the image was removed so that you can view >these images in with a viewing program. No worries mate! Like I said, once I figured out how I lost my data years ago, I fixed it. You are right about Eudora Lite letting you get the images, but it gives them all the same filename, something like cwindows.jpe or something like that. You basically have to make up a filename on the fly and change it if there are more than one in that mailing, which I do, just to make sure I get it. When it there are more than one however, and especially if it is crossposted over more than one list that I am on, it strains my brain to make up unique filenames, and wastes a lot of time verifying that they are either really different files or what. Anyway, I just thought I'd let you know, if you want to protect yourself and others using e-mail, turn off the html. I always surf with my Java capabilities off too, until I determine that the site that I want to view is safe for it. Turning off the filesharing capability in Win95+ systems is recommended as well by most experts, but I don't have that on my system. I will get Linux up and running someday I hope, and won't have to worry as much about some of this stuff. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 24 23:48:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA06970; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:47:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:47:35 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 01:50:51 -0600 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (JNPCo.) Resent-Message-ID: <"SkkXg1.0.ki1.6QXfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16547 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY THE REST OF THE STORY: WHY HAS THERE BEEN ATTEMPTED PLUNDER OF JOSEPH NEWMAN'S TECHNOLOGY? The earlier email document entitled: "JOSEPH NEWMAN'S ENERGY MACHINE TECHNOLOGY, Parts I and II" is ACTUALLY from a recently-issued (1/11/2000) U.S. patent that has been issued to ROY C. SHELTON, JR.! U.S. PATENT NUMBER: 6013963 Now, you may well ask, "Who is Roy C. Shelton, Jr."? Interestingly, Mr. Shelton learned of Joseph Newman's technology DIRECTLY from Joseph Newman (AND from reading Joseph Newman's fundamental book, THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN). Mr. Roy C. Shelton's SIGNATURE is featured on page 460 of Joseph Newman's book, adjacent to the date: 9/6/94 WHICH IS ALSO IN MR. SHELTON'S HANDWRITING --- **LONG** BEFORE MR. SHELTON EVER APPLIED FOR (JOSEPH NEWMAN'S) PATENT! As an employee of Lawrence Technological University, Mr. Shelton was the individual responsible for arranging the Dynamometer Test of one of Joseph Newman's prototypes at Lawrence Tech in the Fall of 1994. Mr. Shelton signs his name to the results of that Dynamometer Test and BOTH the results AND Mr. Shelton's signature are featured on page 460 of Joseph Newman's book. Those tests proved that Joseph Newman's energy machine operated at a 700% (production) efficiency level, i.e., SEVEN TIMES MORE ENERGY WAS GENERATED BY THE ENERGY MACHINE THAN WAS EXTERNALLY INPUTTED INTO THE SYSTEM. Soon after the Lawrence Tech corroboration of Joseph Newman's work, Mr. Shelton left Lawrence Tech and seemingly "disappeared". Now he has resurfaced, having received a patent for Joseph Newman's technology. As Joseph Newman has stated, "Mr. Shelton's 'patent' is not worth the paper it is printed on." It has been interesting to note that there have been several mutually-exclusive classifications of individuals with respect to Joseph Newman's work: 1) Those who support and endorse his revolutionary achievements. 2) Those who ignore his achievements. 3) Those who ridicule and attack his achievements. 4) Those who quietly plunder his achievements and attempt to claim them as their own. However, it has been said that "plunder is a high form of 'reverse-compliment'." In other words, someone valued the technology and recognized its true significance highly enough to plunder it. Many of the major innovations in history have also suffered similiar treatment: first the innovators are ignored; then they are ridiculed and attacked; then they are plundered (by a different set of people from the ridiculers and attackers); and, much later, the attitude of some is, "Well, what's so new about 'such-and-such' .... EVERYBODY knows that!" No, everybody does NOT know that --- until it was originally created/discovered by the original innovator. It it any wonder that throughout history many of our innovators have suffered for their original discoveries? The Wright Brothers had to contend with the theft of their technology by Glenn Curtiss. However, the real long-term losers are not only the innovators, but also all of the rest of us who lose the benefits of ADDITIONAL INNOVATIONS AND CREATIVE THOUGHT produced by such innovators who often become discouraged by such ridicule, attack, or plunder ... and finally give up. Such treatment of our innovators must cease if we are to truly make progress as a civilization. As previously stated: All Joseph Newman has sought is the equal opportunity to protect his invention in the American marketplace via the patent system created by those who are responsible for the U.S. Constitution. Ironically, it would not cost the American a SINGLE PENNY to issue Joseph Newman a patent for his invention, yet federal bureaucrats have spent MILLIONS of dollars of taxpayer monies fighting AGAINST the technology. www.josephnewman.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 10:37:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA19536; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 10:37:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 10:37:20 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <5f.9aeb842.26d808a5@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:36:37 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]:I have address for Roy Shelton To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"XUF7J1.0.5n4.Gxgfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16548 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Evan, I have address and phone numbers for Shelton. Email me direct. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 11:26:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA08790; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:25:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:25:52 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.225.206] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:25:45 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Aug 2000 18:25:46.0168 (UTC) FILETIME=[E2B9D380:01C00EC1] Resent-Message-ID: <"EOrox2.0.D92.lehfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16549 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear josephnewman.com It is nice that we all fit so nicely into a category... But success is the best revenge... You can pay lawyers all you want to but... Until you have hundreds or even thousands of units in operation... What's your point... Me send you money you say... No... But I would buy your device if it were available... Fact is I want one... But I will not send money when everyone that has is still "waiting" for their product... Words are cheep... Produce something... Test results do not power my home... Sick of this bs, Timothy... >From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (JNPCo.) >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com >Subject: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY >Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 01:50:51 -0600 > >THE REST OF THE STORY: WHY HAS THERE BEEN ATTEMPTED PLUNDER OF JOSEPH >NEWMAN'S TECHNOLOGY? > >The earlier email document entitled: > >"JOSEPH NEWMAN'S ENERGY MACHINE TECHNOLOGY, Parts I and II" > >is ACTUALLY from a recently-issued (1/11/2000) U.S. patent that has been >issued to ROY C. SHELTON, JR.! > >U.S. PATENT NUMBER: 6013963 > >Now, you may well ask, "Who is Roy C. Shelton, Jr."? > >Interestingly, Mr. Shelton learned of Joseph Newman's technology DIRECTLY >from Joseph Newman (AND from reading Joseph Newman's fundamental book, THE >ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN). > >Mr. Roy C. Shelton's SIGNATURE is featured on page 460 of Joseph Newman's >book, adjacent to the date: 9/6/94 WHICH IS ALSO IN MR. SHELTON'S >HANDWRITING --- **LONG** BEFORE MR. SHELTON EVER APPLIED FOR (JOSEPH >NEWMAN'S) PATENT! > >As an employee of Lawrence Technological University, Mr. Shelton was the >individual responsible for arranging the Dynamometer Test of one of Joseph >Newman's prototypes at Lawrence Tech in the Fall of 1994. > >Mr. Shelton signs his name to the results of that Dynamometer Test and BOTH >the results AND Mr. Shelton's signature are featured on page 460 of Joseph >Newman's book. Those tests proved that Joseph Newman's energy machine >operated at a 700% (production) efficiency level, i.e., SEVEN TIMES MORE >ENERGY WAS GENERATED BY THE ENERGY MACHINE THAN WAS EXTERNALLY INPUTTED >INTO THE SYSTEM. > >Soon after the Lawrence Tech corroboration of Joseph Newman's work, Mr. >Shelton left Lawrence Tech and seemingly "disappeared". Now he has >resurfaced, having received a patent for Joseph Newman's technology. > >As Joseph Newman has stated, "Mr. Shelton's 'patent' is not worth the paper >it is printed on." > >It has been interesting to note that there have been several >mutually-exclusive classifications of individuals with respect to Joseph >Newman's work: > >1) Those who support and endorse his revolutionary achievements. > >2) Those who ignore his achievements. > >3) Those who ridicule and attack his achievements. > >4) Those who quietly plunder his achievements and attempt to claim them as >their own. > >However, it has been said that "plunder is a high form of >'reverse-compliment'." In other words, someone valued the technology and >recognized its true significance highly enough to plunder it. Many of the >major innovations in history have also suffered similiar treatment: first >the innovators are ignored; then they are ridiculed and attacked; then they >are plundered (by a different set of people from the ridiculers and >attackers); and, much later, the attitude of some is, "Well, what's so new >about 'such-and-such' .... EVERYBODY knows that!" > >No, everybody does NOT know that --- until it was originally >created/discovered by the original innovator. It it any wonder that >throughout history many of our innovators have suffered for their original >discoveries? The Wright Brothers had to contend with the theft of their >technology by Glenn Curtiss. However, the real long-term losers are not >only the innovators, but also all of the rest of us who lose the benefits >of ADDITIONAL INNOVATIONS AND CREATIVE THOUGHT produced by such innovators >who often become discouraged by such ridicule, attack, or plunder ... and >finally give up. > >Such treatment of our innovators must cease if we are to truly make >progress as a civilization. > >As previously stated: > >All Joseph Newman has sought is the equal opportunity to protect his >invention in the American marketplace via the patent system created by >those who are responsible for the U.S. Constitution. Ironically, it would >not cost the American a SINGLE PENNY to issue Joseph Newman a patent for >his invention, yet federal bureaucrats have spent MILLIONS of dollars of >taxpayer monies fighting AGAINST the technology. > >www.josephnewman.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 11:49:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA18677; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:48:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:48:48 -0700 Message-ID: <41D164C558FFD311A4AE000629A8194A547A43@mail-sd.station.sony.com> From: "Taylor, David" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:48:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"1EBWj.0.jZ4.F-hfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16550 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I live in San Diego CA, my power bills have doubled because of the Power Deregulation. I need something now...... Amen Timothy... David Taylor -----Original Message----- From: Timothy Flytch [mailto:flytch@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 11:26 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY Dear josephnewman.com It is nice that we all fit so nicely into a category... But success is the best revenge... You can pay lawyers all you want to but... Until you have hundreds or even thousands of units in operation... What's your point... Me send you money you say... No... But I would buy your device if it were available... Fact is I want one... But I will not send money when everyone that has is still "waiting" for their product... Words are cheep... Produce something... Test results do not power my home... Sick of this bs, Timothy... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 12:57:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA15006; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:56:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:56:32 -0700 Message-ID: <39A6D178.42E1F162@dialnet.net> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:05:13 -0500 From: Bob Squires X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tiWvS3.0.Lg3.lzifv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16551 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dear Tim Send a copy of this to Dennis Lee and Bill Muller . Same BS Bob Timothy Flytch wrote: > Dear josephnewman.com > > It is nice that we all fit so nicely into a category... > But success is the best revenge... > You can pay lawyers all you want to but... > Until you have hundreds or even thousands of units in operation... > What's your point... > Me send you money you say... > No... > But I would buy your device if it were available... Fact is I want one... > But I will not send money when everyone that has is still "waiting" for > their product... > Words are cheep... > Produce something... > Test results do not power my home... > > Sick of this bs, > Timothy... > > >From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (JNPCo.) > >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com > >Subject: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY > >Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 01:50:51 -0600 > > > >THE REST OF THE STORY: WHY HAS THERE BEEN ATTEMPTED PLUNDER OF JOSEPH > >NEWMAN'S TECHNOLOGY? > > > >The earlier email document entitled: > > > >"JOSEPH NEWMAN'S ENERGY MACHINE TECHNOLOGY, Parts I and II" > > > >is ACTUALLY from a recently-issued (1/11/2000) U.S. patent that has been > >issued to ROY C. SHELTON, JR.! > > > >U.S. PATENT NUMBER: 6013963 > > > >Now, you may well ask, "Who is Roy C. Shelton, Jr."? > > > >Interestingly, Mr. Shelton learned of Joseph Newman's technology DIRECTLY > >from Joseph Newman (AND from reading Joseph Newman's fundamental book, THE > >ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN). > > > >Mr. Roy C. Shelton's SIGNATURE is featured on page 460 of Joseph Newman's > >book, adjacent to the date: 9/6/94 WHICH IS ALSO IN MR. SHELTON'S > >HANDWRITING --- **LONG** BEFORE MR. SHELTON EVER APPLIED FOR (JOSEPH > >NEWMAN'S) PATENT! > > > >As an employee of Lawrence Technological University, Mr. Shelton was the > >individual responsible for arranging the Dynamometer Test of one of Joseph > >Newman's prototypes at Lawrence Tech in the Fall of 1994. > > > >Mr. Shelton signs his name to the results of that Dynamometer Test and BOTH > >the results AND Mr. Shelton's signature are featured on page 460 of Joseph > >Newman's book. Those tests proved that Joseph Newman's energy machine > >operated at a 700% (production) efficiency level, i.e., SEVEN TIMES MORE > >ENERGY WAS GENERATED BY THE ENERGY MACHINE THAN WAS EXTERNALLY INPUTTED > >INTO THE SYSTEM. > > > >Soon after the Lawrence Tech corroboration of Joseph Newman's work, Mr. > >Shelton left Lawrence Tech and seemingly "disappeared". Now he has > >resurfaced, having received a patent for Joseph Newman's technology. > > > >As Joseph Newman has stated, "Mr. Shelton's 'patent' is not worth the paper > >it is printed on." > > > >It has been interesting to note that there have been several > >mutually-exclusive classifications of individuals with respect to Joseph > >Newman's work: > > > >1) Those who support and endorse his revolutionary achievements. > > > >2) Those who ignore his achievements. > > > >3) Those who ridicule and attack his achievements. > > > >4) Those who quietly plunder his achievements and attempt to claim them as > >their own. > > > >However, it has been said that "plunder is a high form of > >'reverse-compliment'." In other words, someone valued the technology and > >recognized its true significance highly enough to plunder it. Many of the > >major innovations in history have also suffered similiar treatment: first > >the innovators are ignored; then they are ridiculed and attacked; then they > >are plundered (by a different set of people from the ridiculers and > >attackers); and, much later, the attitude of some is, "Well, what's so new > >about 'such-and-such' .... EVERYBODY knows that!" > > > >No, everybody does NOT know that --- until it was originally > >created/discovered by the original innovator. It it any wonder that > >throughout history many of our innovators have suffered for their original > >discoveries? The Wright Brothers had to contend with the theft of their > >technology by Glenn Curtiss. However, the real long-term losers are not > >only the innovators, but also all of the rest of us who lose the benefits > >of ADDITIONAL INNOVATIONS AND CREATIVE THOUGHT produced by such innovators > >who often become discouraged by such ridicule, attack, or plunder ... and > >finally give up. > > > >Such treatment of our innovators must cease if we are to truly make > >progress as a civilization. > > > >As previously stated: > > > >All Joseph Newman has sought is the equal opportunity to protect his > >invention in the American marketplace via the patent system created by > >those who are responsible for the U.S. Constitution. Ironically, it would > >not cost the American a SINGLE PENNY to issue Joseph Newman a patent for > >his invention, yet federal bureaucrats have spent MILLIONS of dollars of > >taxpayer monies fighting AGAINST the technology. > > > >www.josephnewman.com > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 13:01:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA17608; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:01:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:01:15 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:00:27 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"CyG4w2.0.dI4.A2jfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16552 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Any last minute Lafonte Research Group members? Anyone wanting to joint Group let me know please. Must send in first and last name. First name initial is OK, but would like full first name. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 13:16:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA25161; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:15:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:15:37 -0700 Message-ID: <39A6D47A.EE4C2D19@isla.net> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:18:02 -0400 From: Clalian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]:I have address for Roy Shelton References: <5f.9aeb842.26d808a5@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vRXri1.0.296.fFjfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16553 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com What?! Whay you talking about dude? HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > Evan, > I have address and phone numbers for Shelton. > Email me direct. > Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 14:31:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA24775; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:31:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:31:14 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:31:44 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "JNPCo." Subject: Re: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"F64qu3.0.y26.YMkfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16554 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Actually, Tim, you've overlooked something: The REAL "bs" is the fact that the incompetent bureaucrats at the PTO have continued to deny a patent to the rightful innovator of the technology. Instead they have given it to someone else who has plundered it from him. Now THAT is true, verifiable PTO B.S.! If Joseph Newman had received the patent that he rightfully deserves, you would not still be "waiting" for your product. But I guess that's the way Donnie Quigg, Donovon Duggan, Tommy Jackson, and Bobby Kastenmeier want it --- the only "success" that satisfies them is to deny the rightful innovator his patent rights..... The losers? All the rest of us. ERS >Dear josephnewman.com > >It is nice that we all fit so nicely into a category... >But success is the best revenge... >You can pay lawyers all you want to but... >Until you have hundreds or even thousands of units in operation... >What's your point... >Me send you money you say... >No... >But I would buy your device if it were available... Fact is I want >one... But I will not send money when everyone that has is still >"waiting" for their product... >Words are cheep... >Produce something... >Test results do not power my home... > >Sick of this bs, >Timothy... > >>From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (JNPCo.) >>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com >>Subject: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY >>Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 01:50:51 -0600 >> >>THE REST OF THE STORY: WHY HAS THERE BEEN ATTEMPTED PLUNDER OF JOSEPH >>NEWMAN'S TECHNOLOGY? >> >>The earlier email document entitled: >> >>"JOSEPH NEWMAN'S ENERGY MACHINE TECHNOLOGY, Parts I and II" >> >>is ACTUALLY from a recently-issued (1/11/2000) U.S. patent that has been >>issued to ROY C. SHELTON, JR.! >> >>U.S. PATENT NUMBER: 6013963 >> >>Now, you may well ask, "Who is Roy C. Shelton, Jr."? >> >>Interestingly, Mr. Shelton learned of Joseph Newman's technology DIRECTLY >>from Joseph Newman (AND from reading Joseph Newman's fundamental book, THE >>ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN). >> >>Mr. Roy C. Shelton's SIGNATURE is featured on page 460 of Joseph Newman's >>book, adjacent to the date: 9/6/94 WHICH IS ALSO IN MR. SHELTON'S >>HANDWRITING --- **LONG** BEFORE MR. SHELTON EVER APPLIED FOR (JOSEPH >>NEWMAN'S) PATENT! >> >>As an employee of Lawrence Technological University, Mr. Shelton was the >>individual responsible for arranging the Dynamometer Test of one of Joseph >>Newman's prototypes at Lawrence Tech in the Fall of 1994. >> >>Mr. Shelton signs his name to the results of that Dynamometer Test and BOTH >>the results AND Mr. Shelton's signature are featured on page 460 of Joseph >>Newman's book. Those tests proved that Joseph Newman's energy machine >>operated at a 700% (production) efficiency level, i.e., SEVEN TIMES MORE >>ENERGY WAS GENERATED BY THE ENERGY MACHINE THAN WAS EXTERNALLY INPUTTED >>INTO THE SYSTEM. >> >>Soon after the Lawrence Tech corroboration of Joseph Newman's work, Mr. >>Shelton left Lawrence Tech and seemingly "disappeared". Now he has >>resurfaced, having received a patent for Joseph Newman's technology. >> >>As Joseph Newman has stated, "Mr. Shelton's 'patent' is not worth the paper >>it is printed on." >> >>It has been interesting to note that there have been several >>mutually-exclusive classifications of individuals with respect to Joseph >>Newman's work: >> >>1) Those who support and endorse his revolutionary achievements. >> >>2) Those who ignore his achievements. >> >>3) Those who ridicule and attack his achievements. >> >>4) Those who quietly plunder his achievements and attempt to claim them as >>their own. >> >>However, it has been said that "plunder is a high form of >>'reverse-compliment'." In other words, someone valued the technology and >>recognized its true significance highly enough to plunder it. Many of the >>major innovations in history have also suffered similiar treatment: first >>the innovators are ignored; then they are ridiculed and attacked; then they >>are plundered (by a different set of people from the ridiculers and >>attackers); and, much later, the attitude of some is, "Well, what's so new >>about 'such-and-such' .... EVERYBODY knows that!" >> >>No, everybody does NOT know that --- until it was originally >>created/discovered by the original innovator. It it any wonder that >>throughout history many of our innovators have suffered for their original >>discoveries? The Wright Brothers had to contend with the theft of their >>technology by Glenn Curtiss. However, the real long-term losers are not >>only the innovators, but also all of the rest of us who lose the benefits >>of ADDITIONAL INNOVATIONS AND CREATIVE THOUGHT produced by such innovators >>who often become discouraged by such ridicule, attack, or plunder ... and >>finally give up. >> >>Such treatment of our innovators must cease if we are to truly make >>progress as a civilization. >> >>As previously stated: >> >>All Joseph Newman has sought is the equal opportunity to protect his >>invention in the American marketplace via the patent system created by >>those who are responsible for the U.S. Constitution. Ironically, it would >>not cost the American a SINGLE PENNY to issue Joseph Newman a patent for >>his invention, yet federal bureaucrats have spent MILLIONS of dollars of >>taxpayer monies fighting AGAINST the technology. >> >>www.josephnewman.com >> >> >> > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 14:33:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26237; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:33:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:33:28 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:24:31 +0200 From: "The Dullabh's" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-id: <0FZV00FDQAJBTN@jhb-imta.mweb.co.za> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 Resent-Message-ID: <"yjmb-3.0.jP6.eOkfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16555 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: PLEASE PLEASE CAN U STOP MAILING ME PLEASE PLEASE CAN U STOP MAILING ME PLEASE TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST ---------- > From: Clalian > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: [FG]:I have address for Roy Shelton > Date: Friday, August 25, 2000 10:18 PM > > What?! Whay you talking about dude? > > HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > > Evan, > > I have address and phone numbers for Shelton. > > Email me direct. > > Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 15:57:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA26897; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:56:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:56:32 -0700 Message-ID: <39A6F99F.B3A6335F@home.com> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:56:31 -0500 From: Harsha Godavari Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Dbad53.0.Aa6.Vclfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16556 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Why doen't somebody start a class action suit. There must be interested lawyers who can think of doing it in a dozen different ways :-) hg. "JNPCo." wrote: > > Actually, Tim, you've overlooked something: > > The REAL "bs" is the fact that the incompetent bureaucrats at the PTO > have continued to deny a patent to the rightful innovator of the > technology. Instead they have given it to someone else who has > plundered it from him. Now THAT is true, verifiable PTO B.S.! > > If Joseph Newman had received the patent that he rightfully deserves, > you would not still be "waiting" for your product. > > But I guess that's the way Donnie Quigg, Donovon Duggan, Tommy > Jackson, and Bobby Kastenmeier want it --- the only "success" that > satisfies them is to deny the rightful innovator his patent > rights..... > > The losers? All the rest of us. > > ERS > > >Dear josephnewman.com > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 16:11:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA32408; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:10:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:10:42 -0700 Message-ID: <39A6FD87.543FFBB7@ghiocel.com> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:13:11 -0700 From: Dan Ghiocel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY References: <39A6F99F.B3A6335F@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hRulS3.0.Hw7.oplfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16557 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Harsha Godavari wrote: > Why doen't somebody start a class action suit. There must be interested > lawyers who can think of doing it in a dozen different ways :-) > > hg. > > "JNPCo." wrote: > > > > Actually, Tim, you've overlooked something: > > > > The REAL "bs" is the fact that the incompetent bureaucrats at the PTO > > have continued to deny a patent to the rightful innovator of the > > technology. Instead they have given it to someone else who has > > plundered it from him. Now THAT is true, verifiable PTO B.S.! > > > > If Joseph Newman had received the patent that he rightfully deserves, > > you would not still be "waiting" for your product. > > > > But I guess that's the way Donnie Quigg, Donovon Duggan, Tommy > > Jackson, and Bobby Kastenmeier want it --- the only "success" that > > satisfies them is to deny the rightful innovator his patent > > rights..... > > > > The losers? All the rest of us. > > > > ERS please unsubscribe Dan > > > > > >Dear josephnewman.com > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 16:19:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA02859; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <39A6F99F.B3A6335F@home.com> References: <39A6F99F.B3A6335F@home.com> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:18:26 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "JNPCo." Subject: Re: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"Fbwj63.0.Xi.jwlfv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16558 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Good idea. I would love to see a class action lawsuit brought by inventors against the PTO. In 1979 Joseph Newman had the singular misfortune of having his patent application assigned to a PTO examiner by the name of Donovan Duggan. Mr. Duggan is the individual who originally attached the label of "perpetual motion" to Joseph Newman's technology. However, during a deposition of Mr. Duggan, he admitted that he only cursorily reviewed Joseph Newman's lengthy patent application document and dismissed it as "smacking of perpetual motion." Furthermore, Donovan Duggan told Joseph Newman that "he didn't think he would ever be able to give Joseph Newman a patent no mater what evidence was presented to him." Besides Newman, consider the case of another inventor who was wronged by the same incompetent at the patent office: On September 12, 1983, a Federal District Court in Texas found that Donovan F. Duggan's "knowledge of electrical theory may have been inadequate for his responsibilities." (See "Lindsey v. United States, Civ. Action Nos. TX-79-60-CA, TX-81-39-CA) The Texas case involved the same Examiner Duggan and another inventor, Ralph Lindsey. The Federal District Court in Texas also found that Examiner Duggan rejected the patent application of Ralph Lindsey because he (Duggan) misunderstood the nature of the device and therefore carelessly and incorrectly perceived it to be a perpetual motion machine. The Court found that Duggan summarily rejected the Lindsey application with a "cryptic comment" failing to provide "such clear and full disclosure of reasons for rejection as required by the regulations." The Court found that once Duggan was convinced it was a "perpetual motion machine," he "seemed unable to consider the design on its own merits." Duggan is no longer with the Patent Office. ES >Why doen't somebody start a class action suit. There must be interested >lawyers who can think of doing it in a dozen different ways :-) > >hg. > >"JNPCo." wrote: > > > > Actually, Tim, you've overlooked something: > > > > The REAL "bs" is the fact that the incompetent bureaucrats at the PTO > > have continued to deny a patent to the rightful innovator of the > > technology. Instead they have given it to someone else who has > > plundered it from him. Now THAT is true, verifiable PTO B.S.! > > > > If Joseph Newman had received the patent that he rightfully deserves, > > you would not still be "waiting" for your product. > > > > But I guess that's the way Donnie Quigg, Donovon Duggan, Tommy > > Jackson, and Bobby Kastenmeier want it --- the only "success" that > > satisfies them is to deny the rightful innovator his patent > > rights..... > > > > The losers? All the rest of us. > > > > ERS > > > > >Dear josephnewman.com > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 16:41:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA10762; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:39:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:39:12 -0700 Message-ID: <005f01c00eed$36ee5180$0364c8c8@mindspring> From: "John Lighton" To: References: <39A6D178.42E1F162@dialnet.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:35:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"g2w7Z3.0.3e2.VEmfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16559 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At the risk of seeming heartless, patents are merely an invitation to pay money to create a legal fiction whose chief (some would say only) function is to enrich lawyers and distract you from your work. No patent is worth squat if you don't have the resources (millions of dollars) to defend it in court. And in any event: Please don't imagine for a moment that the legal system will listen to your truth. It exists merely to give a legal gloss to the lies and cover-ups of the rich and powerful. If you have any doubts about patents, may I suggest that you look at: http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.html If you want the lowdown on the legal system, start here: http://www.skolnicksreport.com If you have something that WORKS, your best protection can, as a rule, be found in publicizing it as widely as possible. But it has to WORK. Aye, there's the rub. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 17:39:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA06309; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:38:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:38:38 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <005f01c00eed$36ee5180$0364c8c8@mindspring> References: <39A6D178.42E1F162@dialnet.net> <005f01c00eed$36ee5180$0364c8c8@mindspring> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:39:10 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "JNPCo." Subject: Re: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"j5TgD.0.UY1.E6nfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16560 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I agree with your synopsis of the patent system --- but that does not mean we should "throw out the baby with the bath water." The intent of those who originally created the patent system was a noble one: to provide a recognition and protection (however flimsy) for an innovator's hard-won achievements that would facilitate a means of compensation to such creators of new technologies. Thus, NOT having a patent becomes an impediment in the REAL world of business. If that were not the case, then pharmaceutical companies, for instance, would not spend millions of dollars in securing the patent rights to their technologies. >At the risk of seeming heartless, patents are merely an invitation to pay >money to create a legal fiction whose chief (some would say only) function >is to enrich lawyers and distract you from your work. No patent is worth >squat if you don't have the resources (millions of dollars) to defend it in >court. And in any event: Please don't imagine for a moment that the legal >system will listen to your truth. It exists merely to give a legal gloss to >the lies and cover-ups of the rich and powerful. If you have any doubts >about patents, may I suggest that you look at: > >http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.html > >If you want the lowdown on the legal system, start here: > >http://www.skolnicksreport.com > >If you have something that WORKS, your best protection can, as a rule, be >found in publicizing it as widely as possible. > >But it has to WORK. Aye, there's the rub. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 19:46:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA10145; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:44:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:44:08 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.28.80.180] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:44:01 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Aug 2000 02:44:02.0337 (UTC) FILETIME=[7E3B3110:01C00F07] Resent-Message-ID: <"ILrQE3.0.QU2.uxofv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16561 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Look at history... the Wright brothers eventually won there patent case but did that stop Curtis from making more money from their design??? Patients are a joke... The only thing real is production... Prove your device works... deliver product when you say you will and people will sing your praise... How many are in actual use??? The way I see it you have been blowing smoke too long... Produce you device and no one will be able to rip off your design... There is nothing more concrete then product in any legal battle... Till then shut up... I'm tired of the smoke... Timothy... >From: "JNPCo." >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY >Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:31:44 -0500 > >Actually, Tim, you've overlooked something: > >The REAL "bs" is the fact that the incompetent bureaucrats at the PTO >have continued to deny a patent to the rightful innovator of the >technology. Instead they have given it to someone else who has >plundered it from him. Now THAT is true, verifiable PTO B.S.! > >If Joseph Newman had received the patent that he rightfully deserves, >you would not still be "waiting" for your product. > >But I guess that's the way Donnie Quigg, Donovon Duggan, Tommy >Jackson, and Bobby Kastenmeier want it --- the only "success" that >satisfies them is to deny the rightful innovator his patent >rights..... > >The losers? All the rest of us. > >ERS > > >>Dear josephnewman.com >> >>It is nice that we all fit so nicely into a category... >>But success is the best revenge... >>You can pay lawyers all you want to but... >>Until you have hundreds or even thousands of units in operation... >>What's your point... >>Me send you money you say... >>No... >>But I would buy your device if it were available... Fact is I want >>one... But I will not send money when everyone that has is still >>"waiting" for their product... >>Words are cheep... >>Produce something... >>Test results do not power my home... >> >>Sick of this bs, >>Timothy... >> >>>From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (JNPCo.) >>>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>>To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com >>>Subject: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY >>>Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 01:50:51 -0600 >>> >>>THE REST OF THE STORY: WHY HAS THERE BEEN ATTEMPTED PLUNDER OF JOSEPH >>>NEWMAN'S TECHNOLOGY? >>> >>>The earlier email document entitled: >>> >>>"JOSEPH NEWMAN'S ENERGY MACHINE TECHNOLOGY, Parts I and II" >>> >>>is ACTUALLY from a recently-issued (1/11/2000) U.S. patent that has been >>>issued to ROY C. SHELTON, JR.! >>> >>>U.S. PATENT NUMBER: 6013963 >>> >>>Now, you may well ask, "Who is Roy C. Shelton, Jr."? >>> >>>Interestingly, Mr. Shelton learned of Joseph Newman's technology DIRECTLY >>>from Joseph Newman (AND from reading Joseph Newman's fundamental book, >>>THE >>>ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN). >>> >>>Mr. Roy C. Shelton's SIGNATURE is featured on page 460 of Joseph Newman's >>>book, adjacent to the date: 9/6/94 WHICH IS ALSO IN MR. SHELTON'S >>>HANDWRITING --- **LONG** BEFORE MR. SHELTON EVER APPLIED FOR (JOSEPH >>>NEWMAN'S) PATENT! >>> >>>As an employee of Lawrence Technological University, Mr. Shelton was the >>>individual responsible for arranging the Dynamometer Test of one of >>>Joseph >>>Newman's prototypes at Lawrence Tech in the Fall of 1994. >>> >>>Mr. Shelton signs his name to the results of that Dynamometer Test and >>>BOTH >>>the results AND Mr. Shelton's signature are featured on page 460 of >>>Joseph >>>Newman's book. Those tests proved that Joseph Newman's energy machine >>>operated at a 700% (production) efficiency level, i.e., SEVEN TIMES MORE >>>ENERGY WAS GENERATED BY THE ENERGY MACHINE THAN WAS EXTERNALLY INPUTTED >>>INTO THE SYSTEM. >>> >>>Soon after the Lawrence Tech corroboration of Joseph Newman's work, Mr. >>>Shelton left Lawrence Tech and seemingly "disappeared". Now he has >>>resurfaced, having received a patent for Joseph Newman's technology. >>> >>>As Joseph Newman has stated, "Mr. Shelton's 'patent' is not worth the >>>paper >>>it is printed on." >>> >>>It has been interesting to note that there have been several >>>mutually-exclusive classifications of individuals with respect to Joseph >>>Newman's work: >>> >>>1) Those who support and endorse his revolutionary achievements. >>> >>>2) Those who ignore his achievements. >>> >>>3) Those who ridicule and attack his achievements. >>> >>>4) Those who quietly plunder his achievements and attempt to claim them >>>as >>>their own. >>> >>>However, it has been said that "plunder is a high form of >>>'reverse-compliment'." In other words, someone valued the technology and >>>recognized its true significance highly enough to plunder it. Many of >>>the >>>major innovations in history have also suffered similiar treatment: >>>first >>>the innovators are ignored; then they are ridiculed and attacked; then >>>they >>>are plundered (by a different set of people from the ridiculers and >>>attackers); and, much later, the attitude of some is, "Well, what's so >>>new >>>about 'such-and-such' .... EVERYBODY knows that!" >>> >>>No, everybody does NOT know that --- until it was originally >>>created/discovered by the original innovator. It it any wonder that >>>throughout history many of our innovators have suffered for their >>>original >>>discoveries? The Wright Brothers had to contend with the theft of their >>>technology by Glenn Curtiss. However, the real long-term losers are not >>>only the innovators, but also all of the rest of us who lose the benefits >>>of ADDITIONAL INNOVATIONS AND CREATIVE THOUGHT produced by such >>>innovators >>>who often become discouraged by such ridicule, attack, or plunder ... and >>>finally give up. >>> >>>Such treatment of our innovators must cease if we are to truly make >>>progress as a civilization. >>> >>>As previously stated: >>> >>>All Joseph Newman has sought is the equal opportunity to protect his >>>invention in the American marketplace via the patent system created by >>>those who are responsible for the U.S. Constitution. Ironically, it >>>would >>>not cost the American a SINGLE PENNY to issue Joseph Newman a patent for >>>his invention, yet federal bureaucrats have spent MILLIONS of dollars of >>>taxpayer monies fighting AGAINST the technology. >>> >>>www.josephnewman.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>________________________________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 19:50:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12112; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:47:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:47:55 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990127063835.00c0cc20@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:39:09 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: HTML content in email >> test In-Reply-To: <200008240700.DAA11968@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"jiThz3.0.5z2.O_ofv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16562 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 03:00 AM 8/24/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Knuke: > > > >I will change the settings on my mail. I did not realize that I was > >causing any problems. Having some problems here.... Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 19:52:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA13512; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:50:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:50:45 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990127064124.00c0c710@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:41:59 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"SCdaV3.0.zI3.52pfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16563 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: HTML content test sorry to bug yall.... Got it going Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 20:17:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA20943; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:15:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:15:13 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990127064513.00bc1e70@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:06:23 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY In-Reply-To: <005f01c00eed$36ee5180$0364c8c8@mindspring> References: <39A6D178.42E1F162@dialnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"mdPN51.0.775._Opfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16564 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bravo !!! at least in the US... The thing that matters is "First to market" Even the courts will recognize that (at least in part). If you market the thing and an original inventor is able to prove the idea is his... It is possible he may be awarded a retroactive royalty. It is possible the court will order you to stop producing and/or selling. If you invent the thing and someone else swipes it from you it is better to cut them a deal. This way you don't have to worry about producing and marketing it. (this is mailbox money) Keep your research records (all of them) this will be what matters to the court. Civil cases are decided by "A preponderance of the evidence" You will need lots of records times dates measurements and photos. If you have none it is pointless to even try. It is more likely that a deal is worked out before the court gets there say. Of coerce first the thing has to work. At 04:35 PM 8/25/00 -0700, you wrote: >At the risk of seeming heartless, patents are merely an invitation to pay >money to create a legal fiction whose chief (some would say only) function >is to enrich lawyers and distract you from your work. No patent is worth >squat if you don't have the resources (millions of dollars) to defend it in >court. And in any event: Please don't imagine for a moment that the legal >system will listen to your truth. It exists merely to give a legal gloss to >the lies and cover-ups of the rich and powerful. If you have any doubts >about patents, may I suggest that you look at: > >http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.html > >If you want the lowdown on the legal system, start here: > >http://www.skolnicksreport.com > >If you have something that WORKS, your best protection can, as a rule, be >found in publicizing it as widely as possible. > >But it has to WORK. Aye, there's the rub. Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 20:31:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA26286; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:29:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:29:43 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:28:55 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"Sa3TX1.0.ZQ6.dcpfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16565 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Just looked at Shelton patent I just looked at the Shelton patent. All I have to say is, my God! does this look familiar? Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 25 20:52:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA01223; Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:50:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:50:31 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:53:45 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (JNPCo.) Subject: Re: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY Resent-Message-ID: <"o-cNE2.0.0J.6wpfv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16566 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Patients are a joke... The only thing real is production... >Prove your device works... deliver product when you say you will and people >will sing your praise... Patents can be a joke*, 'patients' may suffer, but my patience is wearing thin with a corrupt patent system that awards a patent to someone who has obviously plundered Joseph Newman. (*tell that to the major pharmeceutical corporations that spend MILLIONS to secure their patent rights) > >How many are in actual use??? > >The way I see it you have been blowing smoke too long... Produce you device >and no one will be able to rip off your design... There is nothing more >concrete then product in any legal battle... > >Till then shut up... >I'm tired of the smoke... > >Timothy... I'm tired of the smoke that has emanated from both ends of incompetent patent examiners who reward thieves with the lifework of others. THAT is criminal! And anyone who has a conscience cannot ignore that. Joseph Newman has repeatedly PRODUCED examples of his technology that have been verified by more than 30 scientists and engineers --- not to mention a former U.S. Commissioner of the Patent Office with "superb technical credentials"** as an electrical engineer. (**According to Federal Judge Thomas P. Jackson) He has even constructed hand-built portable units that have been verified as to successful operability [EEO>EEI] by such individuals as a German electrical engineer who has conducted extensive testing on his Newman Motor/Generator. As I have previously stated, Joseph Newman does seek to commercialize the technology, but it takes capital to produce commercial versions of the technology that are constructed within close-tolerances and can operate at very high rpms. Joseph Newman is one human being --- he is not a well-funded multi-national corporation or a large university and he has never applied for nor sought a "federal grant" at the expense of the taxpayer. All he has sought is the equal opportunity to protect his invention in the American marketplace via the patent system created by those who are responsible for the U.S. Constitution. Ironically, it would not cost the American a SINGLE PENNY to issue Joseph Newman a patent for his invention, yet federal bureaucrats have spent MILLIONS of dollars of taxpayer monies fighting AGAINST the technology. ERS > >>From: "JNPCo." >>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY >>Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:31:44 -0500 >> >>Actually, Tim, you've overlooked something: >> >>The REAL "bs" is the fact that the incompetent bureaucrats at the PTO >>have continued to deny a patent to the rightful innovator of the >>technology. Instead they have given it to someone else who has >>plundered it from him. Now THAT is true, verifiable PTO B.S.! >> >>If Joseph Newman had received the patent that he rightfully deserves, >>you would not still be "waiting" for your product. >> >>But I guess that's the way Donnie Quigg, Donovon Duggan, Tommy >>Jackson, and Bobby Kastenmeier want it --- the only "success" that >>satisfies them is to deny the rightful innovator his patent >>rights..... >> >>The losers? All the rest of us. >> >>ERS >> >> >>>Dear josephnewman.com >>> >>>It is nice that we all fit so nicely into a category... >>>But success is the best revenge... >>>You can pay lawyers all you want to but... >>>Until you have hundreds or even thousands of units in operation... >>>What's your point... >>>Me send you money you say... >>>No... >>>But I would buy your device if it were available... Fact is I want >>>one... But I will not send money when everyone that has is still >>>"waiting" for their product... >>>Words are cheep... >>>Produce something... >>>Test results do not power my home... >>> >>>Sick of this bs, >>>Timothy... >>> >>>>From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (JNPCo.) >>>>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>>>To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com >>>>Subject: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY >>>>Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 01:50:51 -0600 >>>> >>>>THE REST OF THE STORY: WHY HAS THERE BEEN ATTEMPTED PLUNDER OF JOSEPH >>>>NEWMAN'S TECHNOLOGY? >>>> >>>>The earlier email document entitled: >>>> >>>>"JOSEPH NEWMAN'S ENERGY MACHINE TECHNOLOGY, Parts I and II" >>>> >>>>is ACTUALLY from a recently-issued (1/11/2000) U.S. patent that has been >>>>issued to ROY C. SHELTON, JR.! >>>> >>>>U.S. PATENT NUMBER: 6013963 >>>> >>>>Now, you may well ask, "Who is Roy C. Shelton, Jr."? >>>> >>>>Interestingly, Mr. Shelton learned of Joseph Newman's technology DIRECTLY >>>>from Joseph Newman (AND from reading Joseph Newman's fundamental book, >>>>THE >>>>ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN). >>>> >>>>Mr. Roy C. Shelton's SIGNATURE is featured on page 460 of Joseph Newman's >>>>book, adjacent to the date: 9/6/94 WHICH IS ALSO IN MR. SHELTON'S >>>>HANDWRITING --- **LONG** BEFORE MR. SHELTON EVER APPLIED FOR (JOSEPH >>>>NEWMAN'S) PATENT! >>>> >>>>As an employee of Lawrence Technological University, Mr. Shelton was the >>>>individual responsible for arranging the Dynamometer Test of one of >>>>Joseph >>>>Newman's prototypes at Lawrence Tech in the Fall of 1994. >>>> >>>>Mr. Shelton signs his name to the results of that Dynamometer Test and >>>>BOTH >>>>the results AND Mr. Shelton's signature are featured on page 460 of >>>>Joseph >>>>Newman's book. Those tests proved that Joseph Newman's energy machine >>>>operated at a 700% (production) efficiency level, i.e., SEVEN TIMES MORE >>>>ENERGY WAS GENERATED BY THE ENERGY MACHINE THAN WAS EXTERNALLY INPUTTED >>>>INTO THE SYSTEM. >>>> >>>>Soon after the Lawrence Tech corroboration of Joseph Newman's work, Mr. >>>>Shelton left Lawrence Tech and seemingly "disappeared". Now he has >>>>resurfaced, having received a patent for Joseph Newman's technology. >>>> >>>>As Joseph Newman has stated, "Mr. Shelton's 'patent' is not worth the >>>>paper >>>>it is printed on." >>>> >>>>It has been interesting to note that there have been several >>>>mutually-exclusive classifications of individuals with respect to Joseph >>>>Newman's work: >>>> >>>>1) Those who support and endorse his revolutionary achievements. >>>> >>>>2) Those who ignore his achievements. >>>> >>>>3) Those who ridicule and attack his achievements. >>>> >>>>4) Those who quietly plunder his achievements and attempt to claim them >>>>as >>>>their own. >>>> >>>>However, it has been said that "plunder is a high form of >>>>'reverse-compliment'." In other words, someone valued the technology and >>>>recognized its true significance highly enough to plunder it. Many of >>>>the >>>>major innovations in history have also suffered similiar treatment: >>>>first >>>>the innovators are ignored; then they are ridiculed and attacked; then >>>>they >>>>are plundered (by a different set of people from the ridiculers and >>>>attackers); and, much later, the attitude of some is, "Well, what's so >>>>new >>>>about 'such-and-such' .... EVERYBODY knows that!" >>>> >>>>No, everybody does NOT know that --- until it was originally >>>>created/discovered by the original innovator. It it any wonder that >>>>throughout history many of our innovators have suffered for their >>>>original >>>>discoveries? The Wright Brothers had to contend with the theft of their >>>>technology by Glenn Curtiss. However, the real long-term losers are not >>>>only the innovators, but also all of the rest of us who lose the benefits >>>>of ADDITIONAL INNOVATIONS AND CREATIVE THOUGHT produced by such >>>>innovators >>>>who often become discouraged by such ridicule, attack, or plunder ... and >>>>finally give up. >>>> >>>>Such treatment of our innovators must cease if we are to truly make >>>>progress as a civilization. >>>> >>>>As previously stated: >>>> >>>>All Joseph Newman has sought is the equal opportunity to protect his >>>>invention in the American marketplace via the patent system created by >>>>those who are responsible for the U.S. Constitution. Ironically, it >>>>would >>>>not cost the American a SINGLE PENNY to issue Joseph Newman a patent for >>>>his invention, yet federal bureaucrats have spent MILLIONS of dollars of >>>>taxpayer monies fighting AGAINST the technology. >>>> >>>>www.josephnewman.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>________________________________________________________________________ >>>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com >> > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 26 08:25:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA25307; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:24:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:24:30 -0700 Message-ID: <20000826152358.24817.qmail@web4404.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:23:58 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: THE REST OF THE STORY/NOT PAUL HARVEY To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"4qkft2.0.KB6.k4-fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16567 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- "JNPCo." wrote: > >Patients are a joke... The only thing real is > production... > >Prove your device works... deliver product when you > say you will and people > >will sing your praise... > > Patents can be a joke*, 'patients' may suffer, but > my patience is wearing > thin with a corrupt patent system that awards a > patent to someone who has > obviously plundered Joseph Newman. Concerning the Newman patent case, it seems clear that Judge Jackson seems to have made some predjudicial judgements, such as dismissing one of the engineering examination by examinors if I recall correctly, but this all happened a long time ago around the end of the 80's or so. Perhaps ESR can give the list a breif date history of the patent battle listing rulings. Wasnt a refusal to patent from the patent office the last recourse for Newman, or can he appeal? Is Minkota being sued for the application of simply using fine wire in their motors, or is that what is solely at issue? Having not visited Joes Page for awhile I am going there after this post to see if that info is there. What I dont understand about Joe's modern application of his invention is whether he is still employing the side coil/ magnet rotation aspect used in the early edition of his book. Has he now gone back to rotating the magnet to the polar area of a field coil, which gives a stronger torque in the conventional motor field design? In regards to the Patent Office itself I think it is more in line with the police state way of doing things these days. In the 70's, reinstatement fees for an infraction or suspension of a driving liscense were non existant, the traffic fine was paid and that was it. Now it is over 600 dollars in some Ohio cases, and I refuse to pay them a single cent of extortion money. This is also my attitude concerning patents. An Indian might say its the foolishness of the white man to think he can own of piece of Earths land... In Tesla's day a single patent fee probably covered the entire time of the patent, I would suppose. But here is a former post of relevance concerning the extortion racket that the patent office employs in the exponential fees known as reinstatement fees, (sound familiar?) accrued in the life of a patent. I have also gone a bit further in Brackets{}, concerning a new theory. ------------------------------------------------------ Patent Office Info From: Harvey Norris Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 05:33:34 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi all, the gout has me on crutches and I thought I'd spend some time at the ibm patent server. Special thanks to Fred Epps who got me started on this from his previous post on the low core loss rotating flux transformer, quite remarkable I thought. I began to wonder what a patent costs. At http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US05969510__ the fees for the bare minimum seem to be $760.00 for basic filing fee, $310.00 for design filing fee to name a few of their fees. Now it appears that after 1980 the patent office began charging what they call maintenance fees. I dont know if they did not do this in this past, but from the looks of the fees demanded it would seem that if Tesla had to pay these fees for his many patents, it could have bankrupted him, although he already did a pretty good job in that category.The maintenance fee after 3 1/2 years is $940, 7 1/2 is $1900.00and 11 1/2 is $2910.00. I dont know how long a patent lasts, I've heard it was 20 years. So my question became, is this legitimate, after all havent we all heard the old saying about a patent being nothing more than a liscense to steal? So I selected a recently issued patent on Oct 19,1999 that was filed a little over 2 years previous to this. It may interest the group that the term bifilar-wound secondary is used to describe a center tapped secondary,I didnt know if those terms were exactly synonomous, but thats what the patent examiners accepted as a description. This patent is entitled Three Phase to Six Phase wye transformer power system contained at http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US05969510__ A description follows. The present invention discloses a method for providing balanced power to a single-phase ac load from a three-phase ac power source. The method includes imposing an isolation power transformer between the ac power source and the load wherein the isolation transformer has a three-phase primary winding and a six-phase "wye"connected secondary winding, at least one of the three legs of the secondary having a center tap and being connected to the load such that the center tap provides a reference potential for the load and the reactive load currents are equal and inversely-phased with respect to the reference potential. Now it is my understanding that a patent is supposed to be something new, so I decided to go back to Teslas time and see if any mentions were made of this idea. In fact the source I am quoting was prefaced the month of his death, Jan 1943. This is the Applied Electronics in the Pricinciples of Electrical Engineering Series of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. (MIT) This may have been my grandfathers book who coincidently was named Harvey O. Norris, (his unusual middle name constantly escapes my memory). Anyways in section 4 of standard rectifier circuits, pg 353 it is stated "There are at least forty different transformer circuits for connecting three-, six-, and twelve phase rectifiers to three phase supplies. The advantages and disadvantages of these circuits must be found from individual analysis." Now previous to this page a diagram shows a wye -star connection of a core type transformer. The secondary outputs have a secondary neutral connected across the center taps. This arrangement is exactly the same as that in the patent schematic at http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US05969510__ The only difference I can see is that only one center tap is shown connected. The inventor again refers to these outputs as three bifilar wound single phased secondaries. Does this mean I can open an old book and take the schematic and idea to the patent office, and patent it? Maybe they just want the filing fees. Something to think about. HDN {Concerning modeling the BRS as an ANALOGY in three phase inputs, it seems possible that 3 ORDERED series resonances,(the orientation of an L and C circuit in series, is the same way on each delta branch around the triangle: as polarity direction connections in 3 phase can make different combinations), could be used in the same way or principle that 2 180 phased series resonances are used in the BRS by putting an arc gap across the path of the series resonant midpoints. In the analogy drawing a midpoint path to a single terminal bisecting all all three ordered series resonances configured in delta, what this trisection does is merely create a new schematic of the wye configuration. Again in the above post concerning a reissue of an idea already in a book from years ago, or an adaptation of that,that reference book cites many combinations of phase angles as possibilities that they do not enumerate on. But here it seems we have a special schematic again because the wye current path reforms the three series resonances into three parallel resonances, with all the midpoint paths being shared with each other. But the outer delta formation also presents itself with an additional current path possibility. What has already been found in the BRS is that that when we create this hybrid parallel/series resonant current path, two options are given by those paths, series and parallel resonant, but the current always chooses the path of highest impedance. That midpoint path itself consists of a shared path of two oppositely phased currents in double negative unity by virtue of 180 phased currents in parallel resonance, EACH USING THAT PATH IN OPP0SITE DIRECTION OF TRAVEL. Those bold letters become very significant in the understanding of 3 phase, where two different phases can use the same return wire. What I did not realize in the past was the cited advantage of three phase to that of two or four quadrature phases is that if two 90 degree phases use a common return wire that amperage on that return wire is the phased sum of those returned currents, simply obtained by adding the instantaneous currents of both phases occuring in time. Thus if each phase draws an amp, the return wire does not return two amps, but the square root of two (amps). So what we have here is a sort of similar case example where that return wire is acting as a simultaneous path for currents on two separate loops, but in this second case example those currents are not in unity, but offset by 90 degree phase angles, resulting in the opposite example of those currents acting in cancellation during periods of time thus reducing the total current on that return wire. Having said this, it can now then be shown the tremendous advantage of 3 phase is that when each phase draws equal amperage with 120 degree phasing, no return wires at all are needed! The return current occurs on one of the other coils. What I am getting to is the possible adaptation of 3 phase to triple discharges made in rotation from a triple tesla coil system producing a veritable RING OF FIRE! in secondary rotating discharge. But since this post is so long, I should end by stating that since the BRS circuit is shown possible as a series/parallel resonant hybrid, then the same analogy made in three phase will be a delta/wye hybrid, again something the esoteric electrical enginner may already be aware of, or maybe it is one of 30 or so combinations found in historically antequated obscure electrical engineering textbooks but in the several years of internet exposure of the BRS circuit, not one single individual has pointed out to me these effects predicted out of a textbook, or shown historical precedence, or even produced the same effect to my knowledge. [By following the electrical action in one case example, and applying it to 3 phases, the conclusion seems obvious to me, it must act the same way!] If they did they might get a big head and think it was something to keep secret, or covet, but knowledge doesnt work that way in a mystical sense. In that sense of things the more knowledge we add to the world, the more we will be enriched with more knowledge, and the seeds of karma are further burnt. But the first job is to get the world to accept that knowledge. The tripartide relationship of subject/object and process of observation as a merging unity gives a clearer conception of the universe as an empirical observation. Thus the passing of this knowledge is now considered in a new phase of developement where the effect enters a stage where the proposition becomes more readily available for others to test and replicate, as a wholly different application that has never been tested, that of a dual BRS primary arranged in a TESLA COIL. Although I have publicized this possibility on the tesla list, no one seems to have tried it, or reported so to me, or some have not even understood it, as Bill Wysocks emminent reply at messageboard indicates. I have begun placing many theoretical tesla coil files from tesla list at my messageboard for those of analytical persuasion like myself. As the host of the NE Ohio Teslathon I hope to try this dual BRS technique for the first time. If it works it's off to the ring of fire possibility!} Sincerely Considering the Experimental Possibilities, Harvey D Norris Tesla Electric Co. ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 26 10:25:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA24344; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:25:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:25:15 -0700 Message-ID: <39A7FF09.86575264@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 13:31:54 -0400 From: Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NeCQ81.0.0y5.wr_fv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16568 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Zero Point Energy Hi, 'Yall GOTTA look at this one! It is truly something apart. hehe Check the date it was last updated (top of first page). MJ http://www.dnai.com/%7ezap/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 26 10:41:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA31007; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:41:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:41:06 -0700 Message-ID: <39A802CA.DA087065@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 13:47:54 -0400 From: Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"chonq1.0.Ka7.o40gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16569 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Free Energy 1 (reprise to criticism 1) Mitchell Jones wrote: Hi Mitchell, Responses below; > > ***{Michael, the above is just a variant of the same fallacy you put forth earlier, I'm such a putter forth of fallacies aren't I? I am so ashamed! (Notice I restrained myself from using the term Dickhead so far) >when you were trying to pull water to unlimited heights using a suction pump. I started the post that way to stimulate a little discussion in a new direction. It didn't really accomplish that (except for Knuke's capillary model) because too many people (like you) have already decided that anything new or different CANT BE DONE. >What you didn't grasp then, and still do not grasp now, Keep trying to make veiled jabs at my intelligence and I'll give you something to grasp right here! . >is that the pressure inside a column of water that has been pulled up by suction, is *less* than atmospheric >pressure. Ok, so far you are getting the picture. How much less though and in what particular type of device are you making reference to? >That means when you open a hole between the inside and the outside, water will not flow out, to turn your >water wheel; instead, air will be sucked in, and the column of water will fall back to the level of the fluid in the pan. What you didn't apparently grasp was that a pump can draw water out of such a system without admitting any air back into the system. Don't believe me? Look at the old fashioned handle type well pumps. They did leak but not enough to matter in the short term and as long as you keep pumping the leaks were not noticeable. > > As I said in my earlier post to you, the pressure at the inlet of a suction pump is equal to atmospheric >pressure minus the head pressure of the column of water that you have pulled up, and, when that pressure >drops to the vapor pressure of water at 20 deg. C--about 18 mbar if memory serves--the water begins to boil, >and the pump thereafter sucks water vapor instead of water. Only starts to "boil" after the column of water goes higher than 30' or so. >The same idea permits you to calculate the pressure within the column at any point: simply subtract the head >pressure exerted by a column of that height--i.e., from pan level up to the point of interest--from >atmospheric pressure. Since you are always subtracting *something* to determine the pressure within the >column, it follows that the pressure everywhere within the column is less than the pressure at the same level >outside the column--which means: if you punch a hole at any point, air is going to come rushing in. Except as outlined above. What this amounts to is that you really didn't understand what I wrote did you? I tried to make it very simple but it must have gone over your head. Sorry. I was sort of starting to like you too. Oh well..... MJ > > --Mitchell Jones}*** > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 26 11:00:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA05387; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:59:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:59:39 -0700 Message-ID: <39A80723.F9700048@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:06:27 -0400 From: Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" References: <8npoc0+arrn@eGroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mjRoT1.0.vJ1.BM0gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16570 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Free Energy 3 (Mj's response to another comment) Hi Ben, See below for responses; Ben wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > Let me get this straight, Ref: message 3, picture 1, you say you have > built it and it runs? Yes. As pictured, with a hand pump it makes the water flow from the catch basin, through 3 containers and out the pump back into the catch basin. Using 1 pump with a certain flow to move it's designated amount of water out of the last container causes an equal amount of water to flow from the inlet pipes of the other containers, effectively tripling your flow available for work, normally water flowing out of pump would be only stream available. Have you done a 24 hour test and it runs > continously? MJ is not going to stand there and pump the damn thing for 24 hours continuously! I need to get an electric pump (a better one, as I do have a small one) and convert it to 12 volt DC to really do good tests as generators in containers would be DC. Are you sure. Have you actually built a working > physical model? Yes and yes. >Could you post a picture of it working? MJ does not have a digital camera. >I just want > to see the water move. I'm not worrying about pumps right now. Just > circulation? Build one. Parts are $20 or less at Wal-Mart (redneck heaven). Has anyone else duplicated this theory out there? I'll > go out tomorrow and buy some cheap plastic buckets, some hose from > Home Depot, and try it out, If it works, I'll put pictures on my web > site and let everyone know where to see it. Did you? I know it works, just build it like I said and NO AIR LEAKS is the most important thing. Even tiny ones you can't see tend to fuck up the performance. Lots of caulk.... Um...buckets? You do know the containers have to have airtight tops don't you? Buckets wouldn't work at all. > I personally think you > are pulling our legs! I wouldn't do that. I like reality far too much to have to lie. What the heck, for fun, I'll try anything once! That's the spirit Ben! Be original! MJ > > Thanks > Ben > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 26 11:11:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09563; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:10:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:10:43 -0700 Message-ID: <20000826181010.28131.qmail@web4402.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:10:10 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: Zero Point Energy To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"VIl8o3.0.KL2.ZW0gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16571 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- Enki wrote: > Hi, > 'Yall GOTTA look at this one! It is truly > something apart. hehe > Check the date it was last updated (top of first > page). > MJ > http://www.dnai.com/%7ezap/ > Yes, but he says he used to be some kind of belt in Tibetan Buddhism in the Last time his URL hit the Lists. Jerry Decker was not amused that someone would submit that URL nonscense to Keelynet! But it made me laugh greatly to post some other nonscense afterwards, or was that beforehand. Now I remember it was something about praising God and passing the ammunition, but I thought a piece of thread here from the submitted sounds like Lyndon LaRouche! The application of the science of zero point physics is far more highly advanced than had originally been appreciated by zeropoint, the webmaster and principal "theorist." This knowledge and applications based upon it are brutally guarded international secrets. Some number of generally Anglo Saxon nations, led by Prince Phillip (the leading candidate to be the "Antichrist"), are in cahoots in manipulating this entire ignorant species. The cabal are ancient human societies which infiltrate US institutions, especially the military, and have agendas validated by command of or familiarity with or access to scalar technology. USA controls the black operations of ALL other nations, but USA is controlled by a few dozen individuals, including Mayan priests and the priesthood of Babylon as well as the Bilderbergers and the Illuminati, etc. These have long been in contact with other subversive and jealous species. Human Being perfectly images the nature of the mind of God. So once again I can remember being part of that group and add an unusual twist. LaRouche is probably a good guy, not the bad connotation that has nothing to seemingly do with this piece of recorded mental hysteria, that only seemingly resembles that bird. But I do also remember a mistake in my last post of initials, that should have been for ERS, Evan R Soule, also the lawyer for Lyndon Larouche in Virginia, or was that just my imagination. In any case, if I had his capacity to do that job in that time, I would have done the same thing. So there are people in the world that do not back down to agreeing to the perfectly obvious conclusion, which of course is seemingly grasped by now. Sincerely HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 26 11:19:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA13687; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:18:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:18:54 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.27] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Free Energy 3 (Mj's response to another comment) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:18:50 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Aug 2000 18:18:51.0072 (UTC) FILETIME=[15B8F400:01C00F8A] Resent-Message-ID: <"85uNX3.0.hL3.Ee0gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16572 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Have you done a 24 hour test and it runs > > continously? > >MJ is not going to stand there and pump the damn thing for 24 hours >continuously! Is this a new topic??? Man... the perpetual motion machine??? LOL... Timothy... >From: Enki >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: "Michael S. Johnston" >Subject: [FG]: Re: Free Energy 3 (Mj's response to another comment) >Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:06:27 -0400 > >Hi Ben, > See below for responses; > >Ben wrote: > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > Let me get this straight, Ref: message 3, picture 1, you say you have > > built it and it runs? > >Yes. As pictured, with a hand pump it makes the water flow from the >catch basin, through 3 containers and out the pump back into the catch >basin. Using 1 pump with a certain flow to move it's designated amount >of water out of the last container causes an equal amount of water to >flow from the inlet pipes of the other containers, effectively tripling >your flow available for work, normally water flowing out of pump would >be only stream available. > >Have you done a 24 hour test and it runs > > continously? > >MJ is not going to stand there and pump the damn thing for 24 hours >continuously! I need to get an electric pump (a better one, as I do have >a small one) and convert it to 12 volt DC to really do good tests as >generators in containers would be DC. > >Are you sure. Have you actually built a working > > physical model? > >Yes and yes. > > >Could you post a picture of it working? > >MJ does not have a digital camera. > > >I just want > > to see the water move. I'm not worrying about pumps right now. Just > > circulation? > >Build one. Parts are $20 or less at Wal-Mart (redneck heaven). > >Has anyone else duplicated this theory out there? I'll > > go out tomorrow and buy some cheap plastic buckets, some hose from > > Home Depot, and try it out, If it works, I'll put pictures on my web > > site and let everyone know where to see it. > >Did you? I know it works, just build it like I said and NO AIR LEAKS is >the most important thing. Even tiny ones you can't see tend to fuck up >the performance. Lots of caulk.... Um...buckets? You do know the >containers have to have airtight tops don't you? Buckets wouldn't work >at all. > > > I personally think you > > are pulling our legs! > >I wouldn't do that. I like reality far too much to have to lie. > > >What the heck, for fun, I'll try anything once! > > > >That's the spirit Ben! Be original! >MJ > > > > Thanks > > Ben > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 26 12:14:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA29161; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:14:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:14:02 -0700 Message-ID: <39A8186D.B5D79F8@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:20:13 -0400 From: Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, "Michael S. Johnston" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GkIe6.0.N77.wR1gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16573 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Free Energy 3 ( reply to second series of criticisms) Mitchell, Mitchell, Mitchell, Ok, here we go again, See below for responses; Mitchell Jones wrote: > ***{Incorrect. My, my, sure of ourselves aren't we? > Suppose that atmospheric pressure is 15 psi, Why would you make it more than normal air pressure? > and that you need a 1.5 psi difference from the outside air to the leftmost air pocket, in order to pull the >fluid up the standpipe into the leftmost air pocket, Based on what do you assume a 1.5 psi difference? >and that you need a 1 psi difference to pull fluid up >the standpipe from the leftmost air pocket to the >middle air pocket, and a 1 psi difference to pull fluid >from the middle pocket to the pocket on the right. >Result: the pressure at the pump inlet must be 15 - 1.5 - >1 -1 = 11.5 psi. Thus each additional air pocket >forces the pump to work harder, You know, I've actually thought of that. But also notice that (in your example) the power requirements don't DOUBLE with each additional chamber that is added to the system. You say that the power required will increase by about 10% per chamber. Ok, well please note that the water flow across all the chambers would be the same so in effect by adding 10% in power you can DOUBLE the output power. Good point! Thank you for making it for me! >or, in your words, "puts >additional stress on the system." If you had ten air pockets instead of three, for >example, then the pressure >at the pump inlet would have to be 15 - 1.5 - 9 = 4.5 psi. Thus the pump would >have to work *much harder* in >that case, than in the case where there are merely 3 air pockets in the flow >loop. Moreover, since the >pressure drops progressively as you move from left to right, Kinda like voltage drops in a series electrical cell isn't it? So I guess the current/water flow in each chamber would also be equal in both cases wouldn't it? AND that you could vary the resistance of the chamber/cell/resistor in all these examples to increase the number of cells that can be put onto the circuit while maintaining the SAME current/water flow in EACH CELL. In the water chamber example resistance would be varied by adjusting the interior diameter of the pipes/tubes to accommodate the rate of flow that your pump creates. Interesting, isn't it? Thanks again for proving me right! This is great! >it follows that > if you add enough air pockets in the system, the pressure at the pump inlet will eventually fall to the >vapor pressure of the water, and the water in the rightmost air pocket will begin to boil. Result: your pump >will begin to suck water vapor instead of water, and you will have reached the absolute physical limit of the >system. At that point, Adjust parameters of the system (especially resistance) and add more chambers or be happy with the OU that you have with 3 chambers. >if you will add the up the lengths of all the standpipes in your system, you will find >that the total comes >to about 35 feet-- Exactly how do you figure that? You are VERY wrong there. I can prove my claims with accepted physics. I don't think you can. >which means: this scheme, Scheme?! See, there we go again with the little digs, the tiny insults. What happened to you? Your mother drop you on your head when you were young or was it your dad, flying into drunken rages at you and beating you unconscious whenever you wanted a new toy? Sad, such a waste... > conceptually, is identical to the first one >you proposed, and is >subject to the same logical fallacy: the >pressure progressively drops in the system, as >you move toward the >pump inlet, in the same manner as for >the original system that you propose d. Result: the >more columns of >water you raise over that interval, the >more the pressure must drop at the pump inlet, and >the more work the >pump must do. --Mitchell Jones}*** Hmmmm, Well, since the air pressure decides how far the column of water can rise, the first one (from the catch basin) could go the standard 30' before "boiling off" and if the air pressure inside the first chamber was 10% less than standard pressure it follows that it could only lift the water 90% of the distance that the first one did (27' now) so the total height so far (as figured by your model above) is 30' + 27' = 57' hmmmm, I guess I am right! Thanks again for proving me right! By the way, did you notice something? If there were a water wheel inside each of the chambers going up, and one or more outside going down you are generating energy on BOTH SIDES of the fucking cycle! HAHAHHAAHHAHHAHHA! Kindest Regards, MJ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 26 12:20:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02538; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:20:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:20:04 -0700 Message-ID: <39A819FB.EA1275B7@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:26:51 -0400 From: Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Free Energy 3 (Mj's response to another comment) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SCwtI2.0.Vd.aX1gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16574 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Timothy, No, not a new topic. I work all week and have to catch up on the weekends. What I designed was NOT a perpetual motion machine. Well, not any more than any machine is as long as it doesn't break or run out of fuel or get turned off...... Just commentary on a nifty little thing I built. It's moronically simple which explains the level of the criticisms that I have seen so far . It's on my website if you want to look at it. MJ Timothy Flytch wrote: > Is this a new topic??? > Man... the perpetual motion machine??? > > LOL... > > Timothy... > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 26 12:59:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA16082; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:58:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:58:36 -0700 Message-ID: <39A822E3.D3A0E5D8@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 16:04:51 -0400 From: Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qG6We1.0._w3.i52gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16575 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: More on the water chamber device Hi All, How's it going? Missed me all week didn't you (I know you did)? Ok then, let's start right in here. If you remember my concept post from last week I showed you how to get OU from water in a series of airtight chambers. Before I even mentioned it some of the more astute observers in the audience assumed that I was going to propose stacking the chambers on top of each other, very good. Unfortunately those same people also proceeded to point out why this would be IMPOSSIBLE. Let me throw out a couple points for consideration; 1) Pascal's Law. This states that; An external pressure applied to a confined fluid (or gas for that matter) increases the pressure at every point in the fluid (or gas) by an amount equal to the external pressure. Simple enough isn't it? Anyone want to argue with Mr. Pascal? This is the basis for hydraulics. Since this concept has been more than proven to be true I don't think that we need to dispute it. What about the reverse of it though? Doesn't that also work? That being; An external reduction of the pressure within a confined fluid (or gas) results in the lessening of the pressure at every point in the fluid (or gas) by an amount equal to the external reduction in pressure? The reduction of pressure in this case coming from the action of the pump in removing water from the first chamber. Now relate that to my little device. 2)The height to which a liquid will rise in a SINGLE tube is determined by the air pressure on the surface of the fluid in the container at the base of the column/pipe. That means that the first container could draw directly from the catch basin and could draw the water the full 30'. The next one, operating under reduced pressure could not draw water up 30' but rather to a height equal to the amount of pressure on it's base in the container. If the air pressure in said container was 1/2 of standard atmospheric pressure then it could only draw the water up 15' BUT if you add those two together you see that the result is 45' which is higher than the previous 30' limit. 3) Also note that if each canister has a water wheel within it AND you then have one or more being acted upon by the water on it's way back DOWN to the catch basin you are creating energy on BOTH SIDES of the cycle. Food for thought? i think so. MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 26 13:43:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29828; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 13:42:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 13:42:44 -0700 Message-ID: <39A82D5E.414E1EC6@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 16:49:34 -0400 From: Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VQkx_1.0.hH7.4l2gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16576 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Links for Rory Johnson Gallium-Deutrium Motor Hi All, Someone asked about this. the first link is where to get blueprints (free) and all for the device. MJ http://www.dnai.com/%7ezap/rory.htm http://www.broandrew.com/suppression.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 26 20:11:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA26768; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 20:11:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 20:11:07 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990128070131.00bc0280@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:02:25 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Zero Point Energy In-Reply-To: <39A7FF09.86575264@csrlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"fOyuE1.0.9Y6.AR8gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16577 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Is this a violation of causality? He he he >>> Snort.... At 01:31 PM 8/26/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, > 'Yall GOTTA look at this one! It is truly something apart. hehe >Check the date it was last updated (top of first page). >MJ >http://www.dnai.com/%7ezap/ Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 26 20:27:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA31953; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 20:26:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 20:26:38 -0700 Message-ID: <39A88C08.6929B975@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:33:28 -0400 From: The much nicer now - Enki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Zero Point Energy References: <4.2.0.58.19990128070131.00bc0280@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ppuVK3.0.2p7.if8gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16578 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well it certainly covers all the bases at any rate doesn't it? MJ Charles Ford wrote: > Is this a violation of causality? > > He he he >>> Snort.... > > At 01:31 PM 8/26/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi, > > 'Yall GOTTA look at this one! It is truly something apart. hehe > >Check the date it was last updated (top of first page). > >MJ > >http://www.dnai.com/%7ezap/ > > Charlie Ford > cjford1@yahoo.com > cjford1@swbell.net > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 27 07:48:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA24029; Sun, 27 Aug 2000 07:47:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 07:47:31 -0700 Message-ID: <39A8D5CD.9D6677D@prairienet.org> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 09:48:13 +0100 From: Zack Widup X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Zero Point Energy References: <39A7FF09.86575264@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Jclbw2.0.Mt5.1eIgv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16579 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Enki wrote: > > Hi, > 'Yall GOTTA look at this one! It is truly something apart. hehe > Check the date it was last updated (top of first page). > MJ > http://www.dnai.com/%7ezap/ Yep, interesting! I saw the same old file on "Rife frequencies" that has been on Keelynet. Someone actually figured out how the Rife machine worked and found out it doesn't use audio frequencies at all - these freqiencies listed are used to modulate a certain RF frequency. A lot of people are missing the boat with that old Keelynet file. I'll have to look over that website more thoroughly when I have more time. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 27 19:59:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA29196; Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:59:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:59:01 -0700 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:58:55 -0400 Message-Id: <200008280258.WAA20487@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Links for Rory Johnson Gallium-Deutrium Motor Resent-Message-ID: <"CwyjH2.0.587.rLTgv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16580 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Hi All, > Someone asked about this. the first link is where to get blueprints >(free) and all for the device. >MJ > >http://www.dnai.com/%7ezap/rory.htm >http://www.broandrew.com/suppression.html Hi Mike, I checked out that first site, and the blueprints for the Johnson Motor are gone. Were they there when you first visited? Do you have them? Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 27 20:30:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA05851; Sun, 27 Aug 2000 20:30:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 20:30:21 -0700 Message-ID: <39A9DE6E.610B119E@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 23:37:18 -0400 From: Mike Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Links for Rory Johnson Gallium-Deutrium Motor References: <200008280258.WAA20487@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"75BlI.0.KR1.CpTgv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16581 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Knuke, Um, no, sorry. I just saw that it OFFERED the blueprints and assumed they would be there. I should have known. MJ Michael T Huffman wrote: > > >Hi All, > > Someone asked about this. the first link is where to get blueprints > >(free) and all for the device. > >MJ > > > >http://www.dnai.com/%7ezap/rory.htm > >http://www.broandrew.com/suppression.html > > Hi Mike, > > I checked out that first site, and the blueprints for the Johnson Motor are > gone. Were they there when you first visited? Do you have them? > > Knuke > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > The Villages, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke@LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 28 08:12:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA25279; Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:11:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:11:33 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Cc: herman@antioch-college.edu Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:11:58 -0700 Message-ID: <20000828.081201.-331415.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-9,11-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"IBj4z.0.mA6.b4egv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16582 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: CAP Water runs a flourescent lamp Version 22-8-1 (fwd) Dear John, It sounds like you are describing a perpetual motion machine run by capillary action but you say it is not overunity. I am confused. How long have you run this Kelvin Water dropper fed by capillary action ? Does it run in a closed box ? Does t require temperature differences between its upper and lower parts ? Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 28 13:04:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA03424; Mon, 28 Aug 2000 12:58:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 12:58:09 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <70.28e6b24.26dc1aea@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:43:38 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_70.28e6b24.26dc1aea_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"zDwoh2.0.Lr.FHigv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16583 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re:Just for fun - not just fun --part1_70.28e6b24.26dc1aea_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/28/00 2:40:20 PM Central Daylight Time, horacex@usa.net writes: > YES ! > > > > ...but you have the polarity of the moving section wrong. The two > sections > > must attract each other, when the coil is open. > > > > This is what I call the basic 3 magnet experiment, where 2 magnets are > > neutralizing each other and the 3rd one is freely moving without > > experiencing > > any force from these two. Obviously it still holds when one of the 2 > > self-neutralizing magnets becomes a shorted coil. > > > > The 2D arrangement you have drawn is not the most optimal. > > > > The most optimal arrangement of these 3 bodies is when they form an > > equilateral triangle 3-dimensionaly. In other words: the 3 magnets/coils > > > are > > all THE SAME DISTANCE distance from each other (3-way relationship). > > > > Regards, > > Horace --part1_70.28e6b24.26dc1aea_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: Lafonte11648@aol.com Full-name: Lafonte11648 Message-ID: <3b.93d45d3.26dc1a24@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:40:20 EDT Subject: Fwd: Just for fun - not just fun To: HLafonte@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part2_70.28e6b24.26dc1a24_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 --part2_70.28e6b24.26dc1a24_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/28/00 9:31:46 AM Central Daylight Time, horacex@usa.net writes: > YES ! > > ...but you have the polarity of the moving section wrong. The two sections > must attract each other, when the coil is open. > > This is what I call the basic 3 magnet experiment, where 2 magnets are > neutralizing each other and the 3rd one is freely moving without > experiencing > any force from these two. Obviously it still holds when one of the 2 > self-neutralizing magnets becomes a shorted coil. > > The 2D arrangement you have drawn is not the most optimal. > > The most optimal arrangement of these 3 bodies is when they form an > equilateral triangle 3-dimensionaly. In other words: the 3 magnets/coils > are > all THE SAME DISTANCE distance from each other (3-way relationship). > > Regards, > Horace > --part2_70.28e6b24.26dc1a24_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-ye04.mx.aol.com (rly-ye04.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.201]) by air-ye01.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.11) with ESMTP; Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:31:45 -0400 Received: from www0a.netaddress.usa.net (www0a.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.30]) by rly-ye04.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:31:22 -0400 Received: (qmail 19908 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Aug 2000 14:31:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20000828143121.19907.qmail@www0a.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.30 by www0a for [213.76.100.115] via web-mailer(34FM.0700.4.03) on Mon Aug 28 14:31:21 GMT 2000 Date: 28 Aug 00 10:31:21 EDT From: Horace To: Lafonte11648@aol.com Subject: Just for fun - not just fun X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (34FM.0700.4.03) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable YES ! ...but you have the polarity of the moving section wrong. The two sections must attract each other, when the coil is open. This is what I call the basic 3 magnet experiment, where 2 magnets are neutralizing each other and the 3rd one is freely moving without experiencin= g any force from these two. Obviously it still holds when one of the 2 self-neutralizing magnets becomes a shorted coil. The 2D arrangement you have drawn is not the most optimal. The most optimal arrangement of these 3 bodies is when they form an equilateral triangle 3-dimensionaly. In other words: the 3 magnets/coils ar= e all THE SAME DISTANCE distance from each other (3-way relationship). Regards, Horace Lafonte11648@aol.com wrote: > Hi all, > Look at the attached drawing and tell me if you think that the coil in trying=20 > to maintain a constant flux field due to the section being moved away, wil= l > end up having it's flux diverted thru the fixed section? If so then the=20 > moving section would pull off with less work than it would perform when it= =20 > was pulled back with the coil circuit open. > Thanks, > Butch > ---------------------------------------------=20 > Attachment:=A0EASY.jpg=20 > MIME Type:=A0image/jpeg=20 > ---------------------------------------------=20 ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D1 --part2_70.28e6b24.26dc1a24_boundary-- --part1_70.28e6b24.26dc1aea_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 28 17:40:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA03959; Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:40:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:40:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:39:59 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"l6YYv1.0.iz.bPmgv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16585 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: We're missing BURNING MAN 2000 http://www.burningman.com ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L - IT'S ALIVE! Mad Scientist Theme Camp Hosted by: Mad Scientist / Camp L2K Happening nightly starting on Wednesday Some of the mad creations brought to you by the Mad Scientist Theme Camp. HypKnowTron--Come and encounter the 10 ft diameter spinning windmill of hundreds of superbright LEDs designed to enrapture your photoreceptive senses and tune your charkas. No epileptics please. The Mad Lab--Come get poked, prodded and examined by certified mutant Mad Scientists. Mark 2000 ElectroShaminic Soul Processor--scubbing souls clean the fun and tickly way nightly. Buzzzzzzz! Plus--EleCtRoShOck; Orgasm Accumulator; neon garden and more Location: Mad Sci / L2K Camp -- At the top entrance of Center Camp--Where Head Way meets the keyhole At the top of the keyhole in center camp From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 29 02:40:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA05514; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 02:39:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 02:39:49 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 05:39:45 -0400 Message-Id: <200008290939.FAA02048@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: We're missing BURNING MAN 2000 Resent-Message-ID: <"4pNSw1.0.3M1.bJugv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16586 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill writes: > >http://www.burningman.com > Well, not all of us are. A couple of my friends from Oakland, CA that read Vortex are probably there. They've been going for years. They took me to an art car fest in San Fran when I visited last, and ran into a bunch of their Burning Man buddies. They showed me foto's, and it looked like a party to me. :) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 29 11:12:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA11840; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:06:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:06:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:06:27 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: We're missing BURNING MAN 2000 In-Reply-To: <200008290939.FAA02048@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"a-3MN3.0.lu2.ek_gv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16587 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Here's an interesting part of the Burning Man festival http://www.mad-scientists.com (http://www.burningman.com) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 29 11:34:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA24459; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:33:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:33:02 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000829132924.0094e500@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:32:50 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: We're missing BURNING MAN 2000 In-Reply-To: References: <200008290939.FAA02048@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"mLRar1.0._z5.T70hv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16588 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com http://www.mad-scientists.com

Cool !!   How much is the course?...  Do you receive a certification?
 
Is the certificate perhaps etched into one side of a carefully chosen broken clay pot?

At 11:06 AM 8/29/00 -0700, you wrote:

Here's an interesting part of the Burning Man festival
<<HACK>>

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 29 13:19:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27990; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:14:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:14:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006301c011f5$f96799f0$d2793b8e@robone> From: "Rob Polley" To: "energy21" , , References: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:16:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"RPkMj3.0.Ar6.dc1hv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16589 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: [energy21] Any potential for ou here? I think you have a rather interesting idea here.... also very simple and easy to experiment with..... If you set the moving magnet up to swing on an arc passing through the location depicted in the diagram the forces of attraction would very nicely counter balance the energy needed to pull it away. You could set up several of these moving magnets on a rotating fixture, each time one of them moved through the "hot spot" you would definitely get a flux change in the coil...... I think you might want to have some additional pole pieces on the ferrite core to provide a more efficient flux path, they would have to be shaped to interact with both the stationary and the moving magnets...... It is simple enough that it would be well worth the bit of time and effort it would take to try a few experiments....!!!!!!!!111 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 1:44 PM Subject: [energy21] Any potential for ou here? > energy21 - http://energy21.terrashare.com > > See attached > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, write to energy21-unsubscribe@listbot.com > > Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com/links/joinlb ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 29 15:18:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA21970; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:17:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:17:31 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:17:26 -0400 Message-Id: <200008292217.SAA06897@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: We're missing BURNING MAN 2000 Resent-Message-ID: <"wb5M-3.0.9N5.xP3hv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16590 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > >Here's an interesting part of the Burning Man festival > > http://www.mad-scientists.com That was the first section, I went to. It took a bit of finding from the main menu, but I used the handy search engine. Every site that has over 4 pages should have a handy search engine on it these days, I think. As for CJ's comment about certification, I think we are all definitely certifiable, and a few of us would qualify for honorary doctorates immediately, just based on our life experiences. I've worked really hard for mine for my entire life. There is nothing like having a purpose in life. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 29 20:39:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14129; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:33:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:33:12 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <33.98d22f2.26ddda32@aol.com> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:32:02 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"lPZmj1.0.cS3.u18hv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16591 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: LaFonte Research Group needs 3D animator Our group needs to have a member who can do 3D animation. Needs to understand geometric terms. We have important project that needs to be illustrated in 3D animation. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 29 21:55:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA09507; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:54:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:54:29 -0700 Message-ID: <003501c0123d$92392ee0$9c09fea9@p2300> From: "jnemcik" To: References: <01a101c00649$06cdbe20$6ad4ddd1@x2001> Subject: Re: [FG]: Carl Cella's WATER CAR Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:48:40 -0700 Organization: lascouts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"0fwoD3.0.MK2.5E9hv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16592 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, people There was, I think, posting in this forum about a guy from Iceland having build a magneto motor. Can you please, send me a copy of the posting? Thanks millions! Josef ----- Original Message ----- From: 2001 To: Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 4:40 PM Subject: [FG]: Carl Cella's WATER CAR > Complete Pans for Carl Cella's Water Car: > http://www.hasslberger.com/tecno/hydrogen.html and > http://www.inlex.org/water/water.html > > Watch out! Small quantities of really foul language. > This guy was a hard core rock star and probably > couldn't help it. In regard to his device I think he is > on the level. > > Bil > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 29 22:52:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA28120; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:50:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:50:46 -0700 Message-ID: <000601c011b0$40146a90$a1049fc3@0h2ydwybowh4kd> From: "tobitze" To: References: <01a101c00649$06cdbe20$6ad4ddd1@x2001> <003501c0123d$92392ee0$9c09fea9@p2300> Subject: Re: [FG]: Carl Cella's WATER CAR Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:57:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"s0e1K.0.Ht6.n2Ahv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16593 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Josef ! See this page for magnet PM motors . I am concentrated about the same PM power these days , so please keep follow ups ! Wish to make something rotating from stron PMs ! http://newebmasters.com/freeenergy/sm.html Look also at the attached scanned drawings ! Toby ----- Original Message ----- From: "jnemcik" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Carl Cella's WATER CAR > Hi, people > > There was, I think, posting in this forum about a guy from Iceland having > build a magneto motor. Can you please, send me a copy of the posting? > Thanks millions! > > Josef > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 2001 > To: > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 4:40 PM > Subject: [FG]: Carl Cella's WATER CAR > > > > Complete Pans for Carl Cella's Water Car: > > http://www.hasslberger.com/tecno/hydrogen.html and > > http://www.inlex.org/water/water.html > > > > Watch out! Small quantities of really foul language. > > This guy was a hard core rock star and probably > > couldn't help it. In regard to his device I think he is > > on the level. > > > > Bil > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 29 23:01:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA31072; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:59:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:59:38 -0700 Message-ID: <39ACA430.3D60FA11@csrlink.net> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 02:05:36 -0400 From: Mike Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DO0sP2.0.Ab7.ABAhv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16594 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: cosmiverse.com hehe, somehow, mj has started receiving the russian space agencies daily newsletter.if anyone wants the url i'll give it out. MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 30 10:51:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA07598; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:45:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:45:10 -0700 Message-ID: <39AD4995.B900A2E4@csrlink.net> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:51:17 -0400 From: Mike Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"p6Bdd3.0.Qs1.cWKhv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16595 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Chinese Space Agency Hi All, Well as long as I was at it I thought I'd try to find the Chinese Space agency. No luck, but I did find the chinese government's website. It's mostly censored out of course and the balance is in chinese but if anyone is interested in looking for more info on chinese science I'm sure that would be the place to start. I for one would like to know if they are REALLY interested in Dingles water car technology. There IS a working email for them on the site. It is:govonline@chinascape.cn.net MJ URl: http://www.gov.cn/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 30 12:28:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA01975; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:26:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39AD616A.CEBCA418@csrlink.net> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:32:58 -0400 From: Mike Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KQWXy1.0.VU.W_Lhv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16596 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Ford issues PO to test Stuart Electrolysis Fuel Device Story is available in Adobe format here; http://www.stuartenergy.com/ MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 30 12:54:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA30073; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:53:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:53:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:53:44 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <39AD616A.CEBCA418@csrlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"vA9261.0.jL7.FPMhv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16597 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Grav Cap: "S" is back! Mr. "S" had some serious misfortune not associated with his research, but is back again. He doesn't know why others are unable to duplicate his success. I've asked for photographs. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 30 22:44:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA20572; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:43:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:43:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:43:22 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TTRMi2.0.C15.52Vhv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16598 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: TCBA newsletters still sold? Years ago people were selling complete sets of the TCBA newsletters. Is anyone still doing this? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 31 01:10:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA21878; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 01:08:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 01:08:22 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 00:12:00 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Resent-Message-ID: <"k_nk3.0.gL5.s9Xhv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16599 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Horace Hi, I haven't been subscribed to this list for a long time, but I heard there was a "Horace" posting here (horacex@aol.com I think) that has been confused with me, so I thought I'd drop by and say I am not he. Who is this mysterious Horace with no last name? Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 31 02:26:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA04518; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 02:24:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 02:24:06 -0700 Message-ID: <001b01c0132b$b8060e60$870efea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: References: Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 02:13:21 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"3Fkv6.0.N61.sGYhv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16600 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Horace Horace was a poet and philosopher. Anna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horace Heffner" To: Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 1:12 AM Subject: [FG]: Horace > Hi, > > I haven't been subscribed to this list for a long time, but I heard there > was a "Horace" posting here (horacex@aol.com I think) that has been > confused with me, so I thought I'd drop by and say I am not he. Who is > this mysterious Horace with no last name? > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 31 12:20:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA07909; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:18:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:18:43 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:17:58 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Horace Smith is new guy To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"pv8h.0.Ux1.J-ghv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16601 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 8/31/00 3:11:54 AM Central Daylight Time, hheffner@mtaonline.net writes: > Who is > this mysterious Horace with no last name? > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner Horace, His last name is Smith. He is a very intelligent, nice fellow. He joined the LaFonte Research Group about a week ago. Regards, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 31 14:32:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA28293; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:31:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:31:54 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 21:31:10 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Sender-Ip: 213.40.20.95 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PJk7_.0.qv6.9xihv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16602 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Grav Cap - Inconsistencies Dear All, Hate to be a pain in the butt, but I noticed a moderately serious inconsistency in the testimonial provided by one of the Grav cap success story proponents on Bill's webpage. I don't remember which guy it was but it was the one that Bill jokingly suggeste d should put the GC in a plastic bag and claim it was full of helium to stop it scaring the neighbours. Anyway, early on in the document, the source claims that a 12-pole GC WILL NOT WORK, then later on in the doc, says that a 12-pole will work well. May just be problems incurred as he went along which he solved, if so, fine. A contradiction like this howev er, does need explaining. It's often the small errors which may give away a hoax, though I still strongly believe in the authenticity of the article. Hope someone else can clear this up. James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 31 15:12:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA11605; Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:11:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:11:52 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:15:29 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: [FG]: Horace Smith is new guy Resent-Message-ID: <"2efPW1.0.Dr2.dWjhv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16603 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 3:17 PM 8/31/0, HLafonte@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 8/31/00 3:11:54 AM Central Daylight Time, >hheffner@mtaonline.net writes: > >> Who is >> this mysterious Horace with no last name? >> >> Regards, >> >> Horace Heffner >Horace, >His last name is Smith. He is a very intelligent, nice fellow. He joined the >LaFonte Research Group about a week ago. >Regards, >Butch LaFonte Thanks for satisfying my curiosity. Regards, Horace Heffner