From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 00:00:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18921; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:55:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:55:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980801145755.009237a0@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 14:57:55 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: The Thornson pendulum test In-Reply-To: <8c3175ac.35c1a636@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"US7i62.0.Td4.Xlhmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5494 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Louis wrote: >The TIE was suspended on a 320 mm thread. The length between the attach point >at the top and the red needle was 460 mm and the TIE device weight was 228 g. >You will notice in the picture and also the videos (bellow), that the AVERAGE >point IS NOT located at the neutral position. > >This now confirms the fact that the Thornson Inertial Engine produce a >undirectional thrust. >Robin suggested : > Sorry JLN, ..... It doesn't prove a thing. I am inclined to agree. Jean-Louis replied: >Have you a better proposition ? .... If I may suggest a couple. Firstly the red needle is strongly affected by the orientation of the device. You only need a change in position of the centre of mass (rather easy to achieve when you have lumps of mass that are moving) in order to affect the orientation that it hangs at and this moves the red needle regardless of thrust being present or not. However the average direction that the *thread* hangs is not altered by such changes in orientation (except to a miniscule degree due to the finite stiffness of the thread). So a true test would be to have a small hole or pointer at the lower end of the thread to see if its lower end has any average offset when the device is in operation. Even a gyro (mentioned in much earlier discussions on similar topics) cannot offset the *average* direction that its suspending thread is hanging at. A clearly discernable average offset would be a very exciting result indeed. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 00:42:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA08025; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 00:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 00:40:24 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 03:31:59 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The Thornson pendulum test Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id AAA08008 Resent-Message-ID: <"IUy6C2.0.Jz1.cPimr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5495 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 01/08/1998 01:29:05é), rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au a écrit : << No not yet. I realise I was a bit curt in my previous message. What I was trying to say is that in your attempt to show the detail of the experiment, you seem to have lost the big picture (literally, not figuratively). I would like to see a photo taken from a distance of about 3-4 meters with no zoom, so that the whole setup can be seen. (Particularly the suspension). >> Hi Robin, I have added another picture which shows the TIE hanged on the thread during the pendulum test at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/TIEpend.htm About the spinning mass used in the TIE v1.0 that I have used, each mass have a very light weight M= 1.5 g !!!! In spite of the light rotating weights used (2x1.5 g), the TIE device is able to move itself on smooth surface (for the 220 g TIE slider version), and on water (for the 820 g TIE floating box version)... I have noticed that a high speed gives better results than heavy rotating masse, because the unidirectional trust is more constant and this reduces the jerky motion. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 01:22:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA23916; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 01:19:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 01:19:34 -0700 Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 01:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808010820.BAA28548@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: What I believe happens in a transformer (Butch) Resent-Message-ID: <"BwwH53.0.cr5.M-imr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5496 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:05 PM 7/31/98 EDT, Butch wrote: >To all, >I believe that the great majority of the flux stays in the core of the >transformer. It depends on how saturated the core is, as Bob Shannon pointed out. Some poor transformers have quite a bit of flux outside the core! How the flux "cuts" the windings that are outside the the core, I >believe takes place like this.> > The VERY SMALL amount of flux that is outside the core "cuts" the windings as >the field starts to expand or collapse. The current flow that is induced in >the windings, even though it is very, very, small, opens up a low resistance >path for the core flux to expand or collapse out of the core. I don't think this is true. The transformer voltage depends on the change in total flux through each turn. The turns don't have to be near the core, as some high voltage insulated transformers are constructed. When you say the flux "expands or collapses", do you mean the strength is changing, or do you picture the magnetic "lines" actually moving in or out? You also wrote: >Robin, >The flux that is generated by the secondary, if I understand it right, travels >thru the core to the primary and causes more current to flow in the primary. >Thats why when the secondary circuit is open, very little, to no current flows >in the primary circuit. The flux produced in the secondary opposes that of the primary. Thus the total induced voltage in the primary is less, resulting in more primary current. Think of the net voltage that determines the primary current as being the primary voltage less the induced voltage in the primary. >So in a way the beginning of flux build up in the secondary coil due to >current flow in it's windings, in the end result causes more primary flux to >flow that in turn increases the current and flux to increase in the secondary. >I see the secondary in this case helping increase the flux from the primary >not resisting it's change. >Robin, I think the closed loop core of the transformer is not fully understood >by a lot of people including me. All the physics and electrical literature I >have show the flux in the core and never outside it! This is not the whole >story. Flux lines of force have to "cut the coil" for a voltage/current to >flow. No, only a total change in flux through the coil produces the EMF. It can be motional, as in a motor, or just a change in amount of flux, as in a transformer. Both come from Faraday's law, one of Maxwell's equations. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 08:03:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15625; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 08:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 08:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35C32869.18E3@microtec.net> Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 10:38:33 -0400 From: Patrick Tremblay Reply-To: energeon@microtec.net Organization: Energeon X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: TRANSFORMER References: <762291a8.35c2aa82@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dNsU23.0.2q3.9tomr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5497 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Butch, Flux lines of force have to "cut the coil" for a voltage/current to flow. This means that if we model the flux with lines of force, they have to be at 90 degrees to the windings in order to have optimal induction. But I am intrigued too, Few days before I had the same question in my head: Why does a flux that stays inside the core and that don't interract with ferromagnetic materials will interract with a non magnetic but current carrying material ? I think there is some form of Quantum Tunneling/Coupling with the electrons inside the windings and the electrons spins inside the core. When flux pases inside a core there is "NO LINES OF FLUX", this is a mathematical idealisation. However the magnetic domains are orienting themselves according the direction of "flux lines". I think that reorientation destabilises the link between the electrons from the windings and the core. So to resist that change, the electrons in the windings spin perpendicular to the flux and that creates a BackEMF that attempts to cancel the prior induced flux. Since the flux in the primary is canceled, it no longer opposes a change and the primary "sucks" more current because of the reflected impedance of the secondary. So more current is consumed by the primary to overcome the secondary's BackEMF. There is a 90 degrees dephasing between the amperes and the volts in a common transformer. However, in my desing, the back EMF from the secondary is trapped in the toroidal core and the primary does not consume as much current as a conventional transformer's primary. -- Energeon, 7515 Jodelle, Laval West (quebec), Canada, H7R-5L5, FAX: 1-514-686-6083 PHONE: 1-514-962-1678 Patrick Tremblay energeon@microtec.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 08:56:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15710; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 08:49:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 08:49:44 -0700 Message-ID: <35C32CCF.4AEF@microtec.net> Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 10:57:19 -0400 From: Patrick Tremblay Reply-To: energeon@microtec.net Organization: Energeon X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Transformer Part Two References: <762291a8.35c2aa82@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mmoVo3.0.Ir3.Napmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5498 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Butch and all, There is another theory about magnetic induction and maybe it's the one that explains it all. I am referring to the RQM, Raum Quanten Motoren. It's a new theory that shows lines of force PARALLEL to the conductors. The flux is from north to south and inside the core they are perpendicular to to windings, but this theory explains that there are also flux lines that "Turn Around" the core just as the flux turns around a conductor. Of course you might say that this is the electrical field but perhaps the theory is right and that there is quantum magnetic lines of force parallel to the conductors. Here are some URLs that explains this in more detail: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/hoopmnst.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/qermnu.htm http://www.rqm.ch/eng/n010897e.htm It was investigated by Jean-Louis Naudin, maybe those guys just discovered how a transformer induction really works. -- Energeon, 7515 Jodelle, Laval West (quebec), Canada, H7R-5L5, FAX: 1-514-686-6083 PHONE: 1-514-962-1678 Patrick Tremblay energeon@microtec.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 09:06:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17320; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:02:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:02:08 -0700 Message-ID: <35C4470E.B68FB9F2@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 04:01:35 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energeon@microtec.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TRANSFORMER References: <762291a8.35c2aa82@aol.com> <35C32869.18E3@microtec.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"95Ehs2.0.YE4._lpmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5499 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Patrick Tremblay wrote: > Butch, > > Flux lines of force have to "cut the coil" for a voltage/current to > flow. Can't be bothered getting into this with people who don't even have a basic understanding of Electromagnetics but you are very wrong and it would pay for you to know what you are talking about before you say it, this is basic stuff nothing deep, NO flux does not have to cut the conductors or be in the same space as the conductor for a voltage to be induced, Make sure you know what you are talking about in future! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 09:37:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03027; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35C33E9B.6784@microtec.net> Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 12:13:15 -0400 From: Patrick Tremblay Reply-To: energeon@microtec.net Organization: Energeon X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: antigrav@ihug.co.nz, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TRANSFORMER References: <762291a8.35c2aa82@aol.com> <35C32869.18E3@microtec.net> <35C4470E.B68FB9F2@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"C97zb.0.8l.5Gqmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5501 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear John Berry, Why don't you continue to read and then comment about it. for a voltage to take place you need a time rate of change in the flux. I know what I am talking about, I just explained why it has to cut the windings. And you are the simple minded, Butch And I want to KNOW what is the mechanism that takes place within the core and the windings. Studying by heart electromagnetic rules and then applying them doesn't mean you know the quantum mechanics that takes place in a common transformer. So go play with your little right hand rules and let us complex minded try to figure out what REALLY happens in a transformer. If you are so smart, why don't you try to induce a voltage with windings parallel to the core and give us your results. And to continue with what you are saying, maybe it doesn't have to be in the same dimension either, are you suggesting dimension X ? And please be considerate and don't insult me in front of the public, So just for that I will reply this one in the public, but if you want to continue to insult me just do it in private and if I feel your worth replying I will do so in private. Thanks, John Berry wrote: > Can't be bothered getting into this with people who don't even have a basic > understanding of Electromagnetics but you are very wrong and it would pay > for you to know what you are talking about before you say it, this is basic > stuff nothing deep, NO flux does not have to cut the conductors or be in the > same space as the conductor for a voltage to be induced, Make sure you know > what you are talking about in future! -- Energeon, 7515 Jodelle, Laval West (quebec), Canada, H7R-5L5, FAX: 1-514-686-6083 PHONE: 1-514-962-1678 Patrick Tremblay energeon@microtec.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 09:36:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20281; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:32:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:32:43 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:21:03 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: 2 AM, I finally figured it out, transformer flux Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"oFPDs1.0.py4.hCqmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5500 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I was on the back porch walking around at 2 AM this morning not able to sleep because of this transformer flux Question. I remembered a law concerning magnetic flux behavior. It states that a magnetic flux circuit is always a CLOSED circuit. I knew this, but got off track and started thinking of flux behaving like an electrical circuit, that is, one that can be open or closed. If you look at the transformer in it's basic layout as a core in a square shape, open in the center, with a coil on opposing ends, then the flux behavior is very simple to see if you follow the always closed circuit law for flux. This is what happens as current starts to flow in the primary coil. The flux builds up in the primary coil windings and is induced into the core that it is wrapped around. Then the flux starts to progress up the left core and the right core heading toward the coil at the opposite end. NOW HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART TO REMEMBER. Flux circuits are always closed circuits. Now if the flux circuit is closed and it is in the left core and the right core, but NOT to the opposite end yet, then how is the flux a closed loop? This is simple, it is connected across the air gap between the two core "bars" as it moves toward the opposite end where it cuts the coil windings just before it enters the core of the coil and is now in the core all the way around. I will put a drawing on my web page to illustrate this. This explains a lot of questions I've had and makes a lot of other magnetic circuit problems clear now. You have to thing of the flux lines as a complete closed loop rubber band, that expands and contracts, but never breaks. If you ever start thinking of the flux circuit as an OPEN circuit then you can get your self headed in the wrong direction. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 09:41:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA21288; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:37:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:37:08 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <79b1dc23.35c34425@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:36:52 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: To John Berry Re: TRANSFORMER Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"754TD3.0.TC5.qGqmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5502 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-08-01 12:07:09 EDT, you write: << NO flux does not have to cut the conductors or be in the same space as the conductor for a voltage to be induced >> John, Well I just learned something new, all these years I thought magnetic fields and coil windings had to interact to produce a voltage! I will now throw away all my electrical and physics books. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 09:44:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04381; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35C3440B.BE13F3B3@datacomm.ch> Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 18:36:27 +0200 From: Felix Meyer Reply-To: hb9abx@datacomm.ch Organization: hb9abx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TRANSFORMER References: <762291a8.35c2aa82@aol.com> <35C32869.18E3@microtec.net> <35C4470E.B68FB9F2@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IqftS.0.M41.6Nqmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5503 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Berry wrote: > > Patrick Tremblay wrote: > > > Butch, > > > > Flux lines of force have to "cut the coil" for a voltage/current to > > flow. > > Can't be bothered getting into this with people who don't even have a basic > understanding of Electromagnetics but you are very wrong and it would pay > ... > Make sure you know > what you are talking about in future! THANK YOU JOHN ! Felix From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 10:56:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA31351; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:53:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:53:49 -0700 Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808011754.KAA07771@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: 2 AM, I finally figured it out, transformer flux Resent-Message-ID: <"YRmC4.0.df7.iOrmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5504 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:21 PM 8/1/98 EDT, Butch wrote: >Hi all, >I was on the back porch walking around at 2 AM this morning not able to sleep >because of this transformer flux Question. I remembered a law concerning >magnetic flux behavior. It states that a magnetic flux circuit is always a >CLOSED circuit. Yes.> I knew this, but got off track and started thinking of flux behaving >like an electrical circuit, that is, one that can be open or closed. If you >look at the transformer in it's basic layout as a core in a square shape, open >in the center, >with a coil on opposing ends, then the flux behavior is very simple to see if >you follow the always closed circuit law for flux. This is what happens as >current starts to flow in the primary coil. >The flux builds up in the primary coil windings and is induced into the core >that it is wrapped around. Then the flux starts to progress up the left core >and the right core heading toward the coil at the opposite end. NOW HERE IS >THE IMPORTANT PART TO REMEMBER. Flux circuits are always closed circuits. Now >if the flux circuit is closed and it is in the left core and the right core, >but NOT to the opposite end yet, then how is the flux a closed loop? This is >simple, it is connected across the air gap between the two core "bars" as it >moves toward the opposite end where it cuts the coil windings just before it >enters the core of the coil and is now in the core all the way around. Hi Butch and all, I disagree. The flux might build up along the magnetic path like you say, but I think it is very fast like nanoseconds. This is what Greg Watson was looking at in his RMOD. When any flux is in the air between the core pieces it is a low value because the relative permeability of air =1. This is compared to the flux in the core where the relative permeability can be many 1000 or more. Thus any voltage generated by flux moving through the air is insignificant to the core flux. The Hooper Monstein experiment, http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/hoopmnst.htm is a demonstration that it is flux through the coil, not flux "cutting" the wire that generated the voltage. I know this isn't the explanation given, but IMHO it is the correct one. There may be other effects, for example, see All Electric Motional Electric field Generator and its Potential http://www.geocities.com/Area51/9357/hooper01.html This is the second paper. I do agree with Patrick that these transformer experiments show how magnetic fields operate, not what the BASIC causes of a magnetic field (Or gravity, etc) is. "What is a magnetic field?" I do think "conventional" physics needs to be understood, at least to see if somthing "unconventional" is being observed. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 11:29:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA03082; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:24:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:24:50 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:24:31 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: 2 AM, I finally figured it out, (to dave) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"n0A7C1.0.2m.nrrmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5505 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-08-01 13:58:23 EDT, you write: << The Hooper Monstein experiment, http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/hoopmnst.htm is a demonstration that it is flux through the coil, not flux "cutting" the wire that generated the voltage. I know this isn't the explanation given, but IMHO it is the correct one. There may be other effects, for example, see All Electric Motional Electric field Generator and its Potential http://www.geocities.com/Area51/9357/hooper01.html This is the second paper. >> Dave, This is very interesting in that after 100 years of working transformers that so many people seem to have different and new theories about such a basic device. I will look at the info. you posted. The electrical engineering books I have state "flux cutting the coil windings" . These books are written by Ph.D.'s and these different descriptions can be confusing. Please give me your opinion as to how the coil gets a voltage induced into it when all the flux stays in the core and never interacts with the coil. If something does interact with the coil to induce a voltage, what force or energy, or field is this at work? Remember, the flux stays in the core, so it can't be two places at once. It is either in the core or out. Enlighten me, my books don't cover this. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 11:40:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05117; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:36:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:36:44 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:36:43 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: 2 AM, I finally figured it out, (to dave) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"0Q4q33.0.qF1.x0smr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5506 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-08-01 13:58:23 EDT, you write: << When any flux is in the air between the core pieces it is a low value because the relative permeability of air =1. This is compared to the flux in the core where the relative permeability can be many 1000 or more. Thus any voltage generated by flux moving through the air is insignificant to the core flux. >> Dave, One question I have is, in a generator the copper windings are cut by a magnetic field that is going thru the medium of air, and as you know generators do a great job of producing electricity. Why would the exact same situation not produce electricity in a transformer? Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 13:43:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11928; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 13:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 13:41:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 16:33:56 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: 2 AM, I finally figured it out, (to dave) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"4_2nh.0.Iw2.7stmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5507 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 8/1/98 11:41:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, HLafonte@aol.com writes: << Please give me your opinion as to how the coil gets a voltage induced into it when all the flux stays in the core and never interacts with the coil. If something does interact with the coil to induce a voltage, what force or energy, or field is this at work? Remember, the flux stays in the core, so it can't be two places at once. It is either in the core or out. Enlighten me, my books don't cover this. Thanks, Butch >> Butch and all, This has been a very interesting thread and is in my opinion not nearly so simple that anyone with a basic understanding of EM should understand it (so don't waste the time of others on this list). First of all, most analysis of transformers assume that current and voltage changes are slow enough and the speed of light fast enough that the field propagation time is zero. Neglecting leakage flux then, (which is not essential to understanding the basics of a well-designed transformer), there is a core flux which the primary and secondary share. The current in the primary is initially sufficient so the change in flux causes a primary voltage equal to the voltage applied. The changing flux causes a secondary voltage also.. If there is a secondary current it will cause a decrease of the changing flux. There will then be more current in the primary to maintain the changing flux at its original level. The flux lines can be viewed as totally within the core and no "cutting of conductors" need be considered. Although we a neglecting things like winding resistance and capacitance, this kind of analysis works well. BUT, what is REALLY going on? Suppose we have a couple windings on opposite sides of a high mu toroidal core 10 meters in diameter. In the primary we place a current that rises to some value in a nanosecond (with the corresponding applied primary voltage). It seems obvious the magnet field lines cannot suddenly appear in the core but must (since they are ALWAYS continuous) build up as Butch described. Obviously, no voltage at all can be observed across the secondary for about 33 nanoseconds. So it seems to be a non-simple transient analysis problem to understand what is really going on in transformers, but in most cases we ignore all that, get the correct answer, and assume we understand everything. Ken Keasy@aol.com w From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 14:23:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25809; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:17:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:17:00 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: 2 AM, I finally figured it out, (to dave) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:22:08 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"i8rMj2.0.5J6.BNumr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5508 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How does a transformer REALLY work? I love it! Isn't this the central reason for a list like this? Re-examining the accepted dogma of science for possible clues as what is really going on? Over time we have developed many theories about electricity, physics, etc. They provide useful and acceptable explanations for 98% of the activity we see happening out in the world. But the temptation to accept these theories as TRUTH, and discard the other 2% as instrumentation error, observer error, bad data, etc. is strong. We have Newton's laws which do well to predict the effects of gravity in the mid-range of sizes, and Einstein's theories that "explain" what goes on as things get very small, very big or very fast. But do we really know what gravity really is, or how to generate, shield or nullify it? So rather than seeing the discussion of the transformer as a waste of time, I think it is a wonderful example of how to rethink the basics. Is all of the theory we gulped down in science and engineering class valid? Or are these theories simply empirically useful for the majority of cases? Free energy will come from "thinking outside the box", and only become generally accepted when a simple, repeatable experiment is available to demonstrate it. The question of how a transformer really operates is great step in this direction! Charles From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 14:25:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27362; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:23:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:23:59 -0700 Message-ID: <35C37FFA.9EB1FEB4@dcache.net> Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 16:52:10 -0400 From: "James J. Jiamachello" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 2 AM, I finally figured it out, (to dave) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Zlave.0.Sh6.lTumr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5509 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: snip > Dave, > One question I have is, in a generator the copper windings are cut by a > magnetic field that is going thru the medium of air, and as you know > generators do a great job of producing electricity. Why would the exact same > situation not produce electricity in a transformer? > Butch Hi Butch One way of visualizing an AC generator is as a rotating transformer. A transformer is an energy pass through device. Energy is volts times amps. The transform part comes from raising or lowering a voltage, but the energy going in adds up to the energy going out plus losses. The source of energy must be supplied, by squirrel cage or whatever. A generator is also an energy pass through device. It takes mechanical energy on its shaft and passes it out as electrical energy. Again, the energy going in adds up to the energy going out plus losses. So by trying to understand the mechanism of energy transfer you may discover how to make the electromagnetic equivalent of a water wheel which can provide a source of energy from the flow of the universe itself. Until then though I'll keep my day job. Enjoy the journey. Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 16:07:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02146; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 16:05:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 16:05:10 -0700 (PDT) From: BrianABQ@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 18:56:56 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Ion Propulsion: How does it work and can a homemade one be made Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"GoTXs3.0.SX.ayvmr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5510 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I also saw that article and wondered. I think it ionizes zenon then pulls it towards a screen that is charged with negative static electricity. then the zenon is shot out the back. As to making it, it would be hard From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 17:56:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25596; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:51:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:51:19 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Thornson pendulum test Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 00:52:09 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35c4b6f6.246047701@mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OCMiq.0.sF6.6Wxmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5511 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 1 Aug 1998 03:31:59 EDT, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: [snip] >Hi Robin, > >I have added another picture which shows the TIE hanged on the thread during >the pendulum test at: >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/TIEpend.htm > >About the spinning mass used in the TIE v1.0 that I have used, each mass have >a very light weight M= 1.5 g !!!! > >In spite of the light rotating weights used (2x1.5 g), the TIE device is able >to move itself on smooth surface (for the 220 g TIE slider version), and on >water (for the 820 g TIE floating box version)... > >I have noticed that a high speed gives better results than heavy rotating >masse, because the unidirectional trust is more constant and this reduces the >jerky motion. > >Sincerely, > >Jean-Louis Naudin > Sorry JL, I'm still totally unconvinced. I agree with John, that what would be convincing would be if the suspension thread deviated from the vertical. This may however require gyroscopic stabilisation of the device, to ensure that the "thrust" remains in only one direction. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 19:01:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01451; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 18:56:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 18:56:11 -0700 Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 18:56:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808020156.SAA14630@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: 2 AM, I finally figured it out, (to dave) Resent-Message-ID: <"lyIMN1.0.VM.xSymr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5512 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:24 PM 8/1/98 EDT, Butch wrote: >In a message dated 98-08-01 13:58:23 EDT, you write: > ><< The Hooper Monstein experiment, > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/hoopmnst.htm > is a demonstration that it is flux through the coil, not flux "cutting" the >wire > that generated the voltage. I know this isn't the explanation given, but > IMHO it is the correct one. ... The electrical engineering books >I have state "flux cutting the coil windings" . These books are written by >Ph.D.'s and these different descriptions can be confusing. Many books I have talk about flux cutting when doing initial experiments, such as moving a magnet into a solenoid coil. They drop this, though, when mentioning transformers. Could you please give a title so I can examine it? I have found that in almost all solutions using flux cutting, the change in flux gives the same answer. However some "change in flux" solutions don't work with the "flux cutting' solution. This is why I believe the "flux cutting" is a special case of the "change in flux. As mentioned before, a transformer can be constructed so the secondary wire does not "see" any flux. >Please give me your >opinion as to how the coil gets a voltage induced into it when all the flux >stays in the core and never interacts with the coil. If something does >interact with the coil to induce a voltage, what force or energy, or field is >this at work? Remember, the flux stays in the core, so it can't be two places >at once. It is either in the core or out. Enlighten me, my books don't cover Since it isn't the flux directly what is it? I don't know. Something with electron spins? Does this force travel at "C". Can we observe this force independently? Can one build a relativistic transformer? Ken E. mentioned the propagation of flux through the core. This may explain many pulse effects (G.W's RMOD). One could also build a transformer where the secondary turns are 10 meters from the core to see what shifts there are, from a flux change in the core. For an ordinary 60 or 50 Hz transformer look at the Hooper Monstein article first to think about "flux cutting". Their experiment was to eliminate the flux at a wire. Then you might make a transformer with a 1 turn secondary loop that can be moved around, altered, etc. to see the effect. I said "almost all" flux cutting solutions above because of things like a homopolar generator. Here the flux isn't moving or changing, at least in the case for the disk rotating. I think I have one book that shows that this Velocity x flux density-> voltage (Like Hall effect) can be derived from Faraday's law. -Dave You also wrote: One question I have is, in a generator the copper windings are cut by a magnetic field that is going thru the medium of air, and as you know generators do a great job of producing electricity. Why would the exact same situation not produce electricity in a transformer? Butch Think of a generator, one of yours, for example with all the iron or ferrite replaced by plastic. Whay would the change be? In particular, would the iron or ferrite bypass the flux that would otherwise cut the copper windings? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 19:51:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10529; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 19:48:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 19:48:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199808020248.WAA14886@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: What I believe happens in a transformer (Butch) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:44:01 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ombBJ2.0.Ra2.gDzmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5513 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: HLafonte@aol.com > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: What I believe happens in a transformer (Butch) > Date: Saturday, August 01, 1998 12:41 AM > > In a message dated 98-07-31 22:44:11 EDT, you write: > > << Lorentz force law says that the result always tries to resist the > cause. IOW the current in the secondary will be such that it tries to > resist the change in flux. It will not "help it". > [snip] > Regards, > Robin van Spaandonk One item of misunderstanding; it is the Lenz law and not the Lorentz force reaction that determines that the induced currents in the secondary will produce an effect that opposes the flux change that produced it. Now if the secondary were free to rotate as in Tesla induction motor, that movement was from the Lorentz force which is the result of an electric-magnetic interaction that produces a force at right angles to both fields. mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 20:37:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15960; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 20:33:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 20:33:50 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What I believe happens in a transformer (Butch) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 03:34:41 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35c8de1a.256069175@mail-hub> References: <199808020248.WAA14886@fh102.infi.net> In-Reply-To: <199808020248.WAA14886@fh102.infi.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wPLt11.0.Cv3.Uuzmr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5514 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:44:01 -0500, Meat Truck wrote: [snip] >One item of misunderstanding; it is the Lenz law and not the Lorentz force >reaction that determines that the induced currents in the secondary will >produce an effect that opposes the flux change that produced it. Now if Oops! :) . Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 21:05:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA19115; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:00:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:00:07 -0700 Message-ID: <35C4EF2F.4CBB1266@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 15:58:55 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energeon@microtec.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TRANSFORMER (Buy a good text book!) References: <762291a8.35c2aa82@aol.com> <35C32869.18E3@microtec.net> <35C4470E.B68FB9F2@ihug.co.nz> <35C33E9B.6784@microtec.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"78H2T1.0.ag4.6H-mr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5515 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Patrick Tremblay wrote: > Dear John Berry, > > I just explained why it has to cut the windings. You are wrong, this is simple EM. (It does not even have to be in the same space) > And you are the simple minded, Why thank you, I take that as a complement but I am also right. > So go play with your little right hand rules and let us complex minded > try to figure out what REALLY happens in a transformer. What really happens? Well good because all the things are not yet known, but you won't get far until you know the basics like induction in a conductor by a magnetic field even though no magnetic field is cutting the conductor. (complex minded people miss simple truths) > If you are so smart, why don't you try to induce a voltage with windings > parallel to the core and give us your results. I never said anything about that. > And to continue with what you are saying, maybe it doesn't have to be in > the same dimension either, are you suggesting dimension X ? > > And please be considerate and don't insult me in front of the public, So > just for that I will reply this one in the public, but if you want to > continue to insult me just do it in private and if I feel your worth > replying I will do so in private. I did not insult you but told you (and others on the list) what you really should know before you say something with authority, I would understand if this was an advanced concept not in use in motors and transformers all around the world but it is, Induction takes place without the inducing magnetic field occupying the space of the conductor, that is SIMPLE fact from a SIMPLE mind. If you are right every text book, Authority on EM and transformer (and other EM devices) are mistaken. I will not reply any more to this thread as your problem is not with me but every device that is not submitting to your greater knowledge, Because you are highly complex and know all master. (Seriously though no hard feelings ok) > > > Thanks, > > John Berry wrote: > > Can't be bothered getting into this with people who don't even have a basic > > understanding of Electromagnetics but you are very wrong and it would pay > > for you to know what you are talking about before you say it, this is basic > > stuff nothing deep, NO flux does not have to cut the conductors or be in the > > same space as the conductor for a voltage to be induced, Make sure you know > > what you are talking about in future! > -- > Energeon, 7515 Jodelle, Laval West (quebec), Canada, H7R-5L5, > FAX: 1-514-686-6083 PHONE: 1-514-962-1678 > Patrick Tremblay > energeon@microtec.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 21:19:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23818; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:14:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:14:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199808020414.AAA03163@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: To John Berry Re: TRANSFORMER Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:54:08 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wO9yv2.0.4q5.UU-mr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5516 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: HLafonte@aol.com > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: To John Berry Re: TRANSFORMER > Date: Saturday, August 01, 1998 11:36 AM > > In a message dated 98-08-01 12:07:09 EDT, you write: > > << NO flux does not have to cut the conductors or be in the > same space as the conductor for a voltage to be induced >> > John, > Well I just learned something new, all these years I thought magnetic fields > and coil windings had to interact to produce a voltage! I will now throw away > all my electrical and physics books. > Thanks, > Butch LaFonte >Dont throw them books away yet, Butch. What may be a purely electric interaction governed by Coulombs law in one frame of reference may appear to be partially electric and partially magnetic in another frame of referance. mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 1 21:48:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA24771; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808020439.AAA24325@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Cutting the fuss over flux. Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:18:45 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"U-K9A.0.x26.7z-mr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5517 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have to concurr with John on this one and so to make everyone happy I would describe a remarkable experiment to illustrate the point.I once constructed a Tesla coil that put about 4 in of arcing. This was a 20 in diameter, about five feet high. I then constructed a 7 ft diameter coil around this so that the spacing between wires was adjusted to bring both coils near identical induction by textbook formula. Now when the inside coil was producing a magnetic field in space most all the field lines were not crossing the 7 ft diameter coil, due to respective spacings of coils. Yet the outside coil gave almost an inch of arcing. The power was not transfered to the outer ring by magnetic induction specifically , but rather by the induced emf created by a loop around changing flux. Of course this emf is more effective as the area of the loop is decreased. mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 2 03:06:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA23817; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 03:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 03:02:38 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <5050acc0.35c43741@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 05:54:02 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The Thornson pendulum test Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id DAA23795 Resent-Message-ID: <"z8Czc2.0._p5.za3nr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5518 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 02/08/1998 02:56:23é), rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au wrote : << Sorry JL, I'm still totally unconvinced. I agree with John, that what would be convincing would be if the suspension thread deviated from the vertical. This may however require gyroscopic stabilisation of the device, to ensure that the "thrust" remains in only one direction. >> Sorry Robin, my real purpose is not to try to convince you, but to explore and understand new physics domains by experimenting... :-) Today, I have conducted a new pendulum test RUN 2 (the last one), with video and color pictures about the Thornson Inertial Engine at : http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/TIEpdt2.htm I have make snapshoot pictures on the moving thread as you asked me previously... Best regards, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 2 05:55:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA20294; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 05:48:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 05:48:09 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Thornson pendulum test Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 12:48:43 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35d56023.289387543@mail-hub> References: <5050acc0.35c43741@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <5050acc0.35c43741@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cGtKB3.0.0z4.906nr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5519 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 2 Aug 1998 05:54:02 EDT, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: [snip] >Sorry Robin, my real purpose is not to try to convince you, but to explore and > understand new physics domains by experimenting... :-) > >Today, I have conducted a new pendulum test RUN 2 (the last one), with video > and color pictures about the Thornson Inertial Engine at : >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/TIEpdt2.htm > >I have make snapshoot pictures on the moving thread as you asked me > previously... [snip] Thank you for your efforts. Unfortunately with the device itself constantly shifting its centre of gravity back and forth relative to the end of the wire, the centre of gravity of device and wire together is also constantly moving, and very difficult to determine. I had been hoping that the device would remain in one place while in operation. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 2 07:40:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20713; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 07:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 07:38:04 -0700 (PDT) From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:30:19 -0400 Message-Id: <199808021430.KAA17481@centi.mks.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: http://www.u36.com/fred/patents - bunch more added Resent-Message-ID: <"YdTk51.0.Z35.Bd7nr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5520 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I've added a bunch more old patents (Tesla, Moray) as .pdf files to: http://www.u36.com/fred/patents From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 2 09:48:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14154; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 09:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 09:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35C4953C.6A79987A@harti.com> Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 18:35:08 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: Gravitational converter, 2 new pics online... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tmP-C1.0.4T3.KV9nr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5521 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: at: http://www.overunity.com/gb/index.htm Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 2 10:23:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20826; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:20:56 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <2c6c032.35c49e0b@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 13:12:42 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: 2 AM, I finally figured it out, (to dave) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"mkQKH2.0.E55.r_9nr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5522 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-08-01 22:07:51 EDT, you write: << Could you please give a title so I can examine it? >> Dave, The name of the book is, Electricity One-Seven revised second edition, Harry Mileaf, editor-in-chief, Hayden book company, lib of cong cat card # 75-45504< ISBN 0-8104-5952-3 Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 2 10:28:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA16317; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:24:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:24:08 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <156b6b4c.35c4a0ae@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 13:23:57 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: davidc@open.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: The Gyroscopic Inertial Thruster - GIT V2.0 test OK Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"8FUks1.0.t-3.u2Anr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5523 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Today, I have built and tested successfully the Gyroscopic Inertial Thruster (GIT) from David Cowlishaw. This device works as claimed by the inventor. I have obtained a real translation effect on a smooth surface resulting from the unbalanced centrifugal forces inside the device. You will find all color pictures, diagram and video about my GIT V2.0 at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/GITV2.htm Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 2 11:52:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06050; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35C48FD6.2A7C@microtec.net> Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 12:12:06 -0400 From: Patrick Tremblay Reply-To: energeon@microtec.net Organization: Energeon X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: antigrav@ihug.co.nz, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TRANSFORMER (Buy a good text book!) References: <762291a8.35c2aa82@aol.com> <35C32869.18E3@microtec.net> <35C4470E.B68FB9F2@ihug.co.nz> <35C33E9B.6784@microtec.net> <35C4EF2F.4CBB1266@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R4VDT.0.OU1.nKBnr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5524 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear John, All I want to know is what happens at atomic level and at the subatomic level in a transformer. I want to know if it is photons or gluons or whatever that carries the magnetic force, I want to know how this affect gravity and time, etc. I do have good text books and I know magnetism, maybe I don't explain well. I know the flux don't have to "touch" the conductors or be in the same space than the conductor, all I want to know is the mechanism and my text books don't explain that. They give formulas, explain variations of flux, explains the behavior of the flux, teaches how to wind a coil, the permeability of different materials, the relations between the B field and the H field, how to measure AC current, how to calculate core losses, how to calculate the polarization, the coercive force, how to convert Gauss units into Tesla units, etc. That's engineering and math and it just explains how to produce a result and not what is happening. I want to know the Physics should I say the Nuclear physics in a transformer. If you know a text book that will explain that then please tell us. thanks, -- Energeon, 7515 Jodelle, Laval West (quebec), Canada, H7R-5L5, FAX: 1-514-686-6083 PHONE: 1-514-962-1678 Patrick Tremblay energeon@microtec.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 2 16:01:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26847; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 15:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 15:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35C4E469.52A2@spu.edu> Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 15:12:57 -0700 From: TK Reply-To: tnk@spu.edu Organization: me X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Gyroscopic Inertial Thruster - GIT V2.0 test OK References: <156b6b4c.35c4a0ae@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ti87M1.0.PZ6.6zEnr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5525 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How well would this device work in a zero gravity environment, such as space? Without the downward gravitational acceleration to hold the ball in the track as it is first starting, would it still work?? Just wondering. Have you tried operation the device while it is lying on its side, or various other orientations? TK JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Hi All, > > Today, I have built and tested successfully the Gyroscopic Inertial Thruster > (GIT) from David Cowlishaw. This device works as claimed by the inventor. I > have obtained a real translation effect on a smooth surface resulting from the > unbalanced centrifugal forces inside the device. > > You will find all color pictures, diagram and video about my GIT V2.0 at: > > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/GITV2.htm > > Sincerely, > > Jean-Louis Naudin (France) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 2 23:54:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01031; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:48:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:48:46 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <34bf2ad7.35c55d2f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 02:48:14 EDT To: tnk@spu.edu Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The Gyroscopic Inertial Thruster - GIT V2.0 test OK Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"2aQAB1.0.1G.ErLnr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5526 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 03/08/1998 00:58:56, tnk@spu.edu wrote : << How well would this device work in a zero gravity environment, such as space? Without the downward gravitational acceleration to hold the ball in the track as it is first starting, would it still work?? Just wondering. Have you tried operation the device while it is lying on its side, or various other orientations? >> The best way is to test the GIT device in the Space Shuttle, but I have not the funds for conducted this kind of experiment... :-) Soon, I shall test the GIT on a box floatting on water like my previous test with the Thornson engine. I shall also test the GIT suspend on two wires. I shall post all theses results in my web site, as soon as I have finished theses series of tests. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 3 13:06:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06947; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:01:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:01:19 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDBF20.0B162020@que3-p9.telepac.pt> From: Isabel Alegria To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Question, wanting to ask (Robin) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:48:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDBF20.0B162020" Resent-Message-ID: <"x3TdN3.0.8i1.DSXnr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5527 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDBF20.0B162020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Butch and Robin, << On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:29:07 EDT, HLafonte@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-07-31 19:56:32 EDT, you write: ><< If I'm not mistaken, then the voltage induced in the secondary > windings, is primarily due to the flux in the core, not the leakage > flux anyway. > Regards, > Robin van Spaandonk >> >Robin, >How can this be if the flux is in the core, and the windings are = outside the >core? >Butch I believe Maxwell's equations only require that the windings *encompass* a changing flux, not that they are necessarily cut by it. But I'm on shaky ground here, as this is not my strong suit. Perhaps someone better versed in EM theory will provide a better explanation? >> You're right Robin. What EM theory says is that the induced EMF is proportional to the = variation of the flux "through any surface bounded by the conductor". A simple case: In a single loop, it is related to the flux through the circle bounded = by the loop. Best regards, Ant=F3nio Vilela ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDBF20.0B162020 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhIUAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAlAAAAUkU6 IFF1ZXN0aW9uLCB3YW50aW5nIHRvIGFzayAoUm9iaW4pAFoMAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcIAAMAFAAwAAUA AQAqAQEggAMADgAAAM4HCAADABQAKAAJAAEAJgEBCYABACEAAAA0QTBCQzkyQjExMkJEMjExQjZG NjlDQUQwQkMxMDAwMAAgBwEDkAYATAUAABQAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4A AAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AADJhQMgv70BHgBwAAEAAAAlAAAAUkU6IFF1ZXN0aW9uLCB3YW50aW5n IHRvIGFzayAoUm9iaW4pAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG9vyADhSvJC0srERHStvacrQvBAAAAAB4A HgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAXAAAAdmlsZWxhQG1haWwudGVsZXBhYy5wdAAAAwAG EMkUvucDAAcQJwMAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEhFTExPQlVUQ0hBTkRST0JJTiw8PE9ORlJJLDMxSlVM MTk5ODIxOjI5OjA3RURULEhMQUZPTlRFQEFPTENPTVdST1RFOklOQU1FU1NBR0VEQVRFRDk4LTA3 LTMxMTk6NTY6MzIAAAAAAgEJEAEAAACwAwAArAMAANoFAABMWkZ1+7+S4v8ACgEPAhUCpAPkBesC gwBQEwNUAgBjaArAc2V07jIGAAbDAoMyA8YHEwKDxjMDxQIAcHJxEiATiPo0Ew19CoAIzwnZAoAK gdMNsQtgbmcB0DcN8AsKQxQiAdAgSGVsFyAgqEJ1dBGwIABwZAfxOmILgCwKhQqPGkg8PJ8ctwtk FbIMARTAb3QFkBUFQE8DoEYFECwgMxAxIEp1AyAxOTkAOCAyMToyOTohGXAgRURUIMBITKJhAhJl QGEG8C4FoChtIHcf8jocTD5JCQOgYSAHgXNhZ2W4IGRhIBAbwCFwLRlwBi0g4SFQOjU2OjNbEiAi M3kIYCOBaSPIPlEeYCBJZijAJyNwbm8gACUgBAABkGsJ8CDAdOZoCfAqEiB2BvABkCWB8QuAZHVj JeELgCpjEfD3BaAbsArAeSRmI4ArMQuA7GdzIMAEACAUwAdwCsD9AxB5JaAKUCoQGyAqchkQ7HV4 K6YFoWUgwClCKnJ8bGUpwCVxLLcvYwBweTB3YXkuLLcH8GVnvwsRLbAyyRvyKqADkVMc4KsboQIg ax5QcjThczUxIEB2aWMuHABncIksUS5uEgAuYXUtIIw+PiRmG+s+SG8H4O5jA5EqIC3hYisRKOAv KH8EIC+7G6Iqci1GG5AXkCB9CGB0AJANsCoSJGYwIj9XJGYbQxy1STnhbAiQdqElkE1heHca8ScE IOhlcXUlwGkCIAQgAiD3LoEXkEFAaT0BKiAlwDwbvRy1KgnwI1Ec4AQQKiUB/xGxGUAtgS9TMGZC xC6QPPLvNyArcCVRLmNjG1A54C6QfyfgMrYbQSjzAiAsEBHAa/8ukAnACGAbsSowO6MEIDmjvy3h KUMukCmgA2BFYXNCUK1IV1AEkBHAcAQgcwNw/mUCICWQOfACQASQKqAEkPMR8CuTRU0qEgWwLpAD 8PsbAC4BbzZgPYElEE4UHLX0ZXgLUW5BYz6mC0YS8q8asTenGf0ctVkIYCc9AbkFEGdoBUAb4zK2 V0Kye08oJWB5SyNCpys2TyBG/S3UbzbQACBBgQdALuY04O8HIUFyPSA6OSIqIEoBViDzMkJMQXJm ANBN8UoSJeFPSBEv5CtCLvByIjK2Qf8sEAdwC1AwAUSQI9cowCTy/wCQGUBggRcgWkAtwQVALeF/ F5ALYCXSLvpc1i/jQmBj/2CBXh1iQjK2SHYHkAVAF5DlM4tBAjBcJxQQAwAbIF5WAxBjERy1FrEA apADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMCDJ4ecev70BQAAIMCDJ4ecev70BHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6 IAAAAAADAA00/TcAALiD ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDBF20.0B162020-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 3 19:31:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15793; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:24:17 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <2be274d4.35c66ee9@aol.com> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:15:59 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"SkxOP2.0.ds3.F3dnr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5528 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all, After talking to 5 Ph.D's I got the right answer to how a transformer with a closed loop iron core works. He told me to think about it this way. If you can run a current thru a wire and get a magnetic field around it, then you can run a magnetic field thru a wire (the coil being like a wire but made up of many coil turns with a open center section.) and get a current flow. The core adjacent to the coil induces a current flow in the wire and as the individual coils combine their magnetic fields, what happens to the coils adjacent to core in effect happens to all the coils above them. The gray area here is what the professors don't enjoy talking about. It's the space between the coil and the core that this cause and effect take place. They don't like students asking about it because it gets very deep into physics and has that bottom line thing that we always end up with sooner or later, FORCE AT A DISTANCE, something we just have to accept and then move on. There are causes and effects that can be calculated, there are causes and effects that can be observed, but what that field or force or medium that is between that cause and effect is still anyone's guess. It's like magnetic fields, we can predict what they will do, where they will be, how strong they are, but we do not to this day know the true nature of their makeup. This area where the coil and core interact still interest me and any one who can explain it further, please do as these Ph.D's after a while start asking 200 dollars an hour or more for their services. One thing I would like to comment on about the list where this discussion was on going for a while is this. Some people would take the time put down our search for the basic operating principle of the transformer, and tell us that the flux did not have to come out of the core to affect the coil, but they would not go on to tell how this was done. I thought the list was to a degree, for helping each other. If people don't want to help then why can't they just not comment at all and if they do, conduct themselfs like gentlemen. I will never understand why people think anything productive can come from being hateful with people. I guess I was just raised different. regards, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 07:11:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20640; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 07:06:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 07:06:37 -0700 Message-ID: <35C71432.F7327F30@harti.com> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 16:01:23 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "HLafonte@aol.com" Subject: Re: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer References: <2be274d4.35c66ee9@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1nZxC2.0.P25.iLnnr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5529 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > They don't like students > asking about it because it gets very deep into physics and has that bottom > line thing that we always end up with sooner or later, FORCE AT A DISTANCE, > something we just have to accept and then move on. There are causes and > effects that can be calculated, there are causes and effects that can be > observed, but what that field or force or medium that is between that cause > and effect is still anyone's guess. > It's like magnetic fields, we can predict what they will do, where they will > be, how strong they are, but we do not to this day know the true nature of > their makeup. This area where the coil and core interact still interest me and > any one who can explain it further, please do as these Ph.D's after a while > start asking 200 dollars an hour or more for their services....... Hi Butch, good points indeed ! I guess you are probably pretty much right with your rubber band view of the field extracting and contracting again, so the field lines cut the coils... If this is true, there must be configurations, where one can see, that it is this way or not...or use this effect to generate OU. Well, I guess, it could also just be, cause there is an aether in space and the flux lines in the core just alter the spin of the aether and this effects the electrons in the copper wire in the near distance on the core. If the spin direction of the core is changed, the spin of the aether is changed too and this aether medium couples the spin change also to the electrons inside the copper wire, thus giving an induction voltage... Very interesting would be the following experiment: Build a big circular ferrite core , e.g. 5 cm ferrite diameter with a circle diameter of about 50 cm and use a very tight coupled primary winding onto the core for generating the magnetic flux lines inside the core. (using e.g. 60 Hz AC from the grid) Now use a kind of "Helmholtz coil" as the secondary, that means, just don´t wind the secondary coil directly onto the core, but leave about 20 cm air gap between core and coil ! Now, is there still the same induction voltage in this "Helmholtz coil", as if it would be winded directly onto the core ? If yes, then your rubberband theory is valid, the flux lines just are cutting the wires inside the air, when the flux lines expand. If the induction voltage is much smaller, then we have a case to study !! Also another good experiment would be to build a rectangular very long ferrite core, e.g. 20 meters long , and study the speed of the magnetic flux lines propagating inside the core and have at the other end of the core the secondary windings, thus 20 meters apart each other ! Now, if you make the pulse in the primary short enough, you can probably get much more power out of the pulse at the secondary coil with a time delay. This is what Greg Watson wanted to do, but he just used only very short core lengths like 10 cms and thus he got not the effect, cause his transistor switches were too slow for this short distance ! BTW, who did already get a refund from him ? Me not yet... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 09:33:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24048; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001301bdbfc4$3437a880$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: , , Subject: Re: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:22:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"wZWf31.0.ct5.NTpnr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5530 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan, The induction voltage would be smaller with the coil with the air gap. Further away = less flux density at the coil = less power transfer. Butch, It is the magnetic field OUTSIDE the toroid that generates the current in the secondary coil. This does not allow for a very small core however, as the power throughput is limited by the saturation point of the core. Another way of looking at it is: If you 'closed' a horseshoe magnet with an iron bar, the iron bar will still be surrounded with a magnetic field. The 'closed' magnet is in effect you toroid. -----Original Message----- From: Stefan Hartmann Build a big circular ferrite core , e.g. 5 cm ferrite diameter with a circle diameter of about 50 cm and use a very tight coupled primary winding onto the core for generating the magnetic flux lines inside the core. (using e.g. 60 Hz AC from the grid) Now use a kind of "Helmholtz coil" as the secondary, that means, just don´t wind the secondary coil directly onto the core, but leave about 20 cm air gap between core and coil ! Now, is there still the same induction voltage in this "Helmholtz coil", as if it would be winded directly onto the core ? If yes, then your rubberband theory is valid, the flux lines just are cutting the wires inside the air, when the flux lines expand. If the induction voltage is much smaller, then we have a case to study !! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 10:13:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27383; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:08:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:08:20 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDBFD3.1C79F040@que3-p12.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:09:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDBFD3.1C831800" Resent-Message-ID: <"lEynF3.0.Xh6.30qnr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5531 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDBFD3.1C831800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, David Callaghan wrote: << Butch, It is the magnetic field OUTSIDE the toroid that generates the current in the secondary coil. >> Maybe you could reconsider this. It would make no sense using Hi-mu cores to keep the flux within, then. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDBFD3.1C831800 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgcSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQA1AAAAUkU6 IEFmdGVyIDUgUGguRCdzIEkgZ2V0IHJpZ2h0IGFuc3dlciBvbiB0cmFuc2Zvcm1lcgCjEQEFgAMA DgAAAM4HCAAEABIACQAUAAIAEgEBIIADAA4AAADOBwgABAARADkAEAACAD0BAQmAAQAhAAAARTY3 MEExODVDNDJCRDIxMUI2RjYzMEFFMEJDMTAwMDAABwcBA5AGADwDAAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYA AAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQCg67cA07+9AR4AcAABAAAANQAAAFJFOiBB ZnRlciA1IFBoLkQncyBJIGdldCByaWdodCBhbnN3ZXIgb24gdHJhbnNmb3JtZXIAAAAAAgFxAAEA AAAWAAAAAb2/0wCuhaFw5yvEEdK29jCuC8EAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAA ABcAAAB2aWxlbGFAbWFpbC50ZWxlcGFjLnB0AAADAAYQOCav/wMABxDVAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAA SEVMTE9FVkVSWU9ORSxEQVZJRENBTExBR0hBTldST1RFOjw8PFNOSVBCVVRDSCxJVElTVEhFTUFH TkVUSUNGSUVMRE9VVFNJREVUSEVUT1JPSURUSEFUR0VORVJBVEVTVEhFQwAAAAACAQkQAQAAAI8B AACLAQAApwIAAExaRnXLQhz3/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzID xgcTAoPGMwPFAgBwcnESIBOI+jQTDX0KgAjPCdkCgAqB0w2xC2BuZwHQNw3wCwpDFCIB0CBIZWwX ICCUZXYEkHkCIGUsCoUBCoVEYXZpZCBDWwdAC2BnEcADoHcDYHScZTob3BmvGrE8PB6F5DxzAwBw Ph4eC2QVshcMARTAHdFjBUBCdXQbEbAbzUkFQAQAIHRoFGUgAMBnG6B0aWMUIGYIkGwc8E9VVFBT SURFJQN0BbBv6xzhJRBhBUBnCfAEkCeQ7weQHo8iXyUDYwhwF5ACMJ8k0AOgJRIR8AWgbmQKwOZ5 KrAnMGwuGf0gXwrBwj4hHU1heWIlMBuA+nUsQXUmEReQK9EAkASBayUBBAAuJKJ3MIMAwGu9JTBu GyAR8ACAJTB1AJDjGUAa0GktbTBSF5AoRmUnACAykGVwJQMZEHVKeB2gaTGBbiwlAm4WLihVFrEA N2AAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAQAAAEAABzBAkuZQ0b+9AUAACDBAkuZQ0b+9AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJF OiAAAAAAAwANNP03AACi1g== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDBFD3.1C831800-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 15:42:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08896; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35C7B462.265E@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 18:24:50 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer References: <01BDBFD3.1C79F040@que3-p12.telepac.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rGIhl2.0.rA2.btunr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5532 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: António Vilela wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > David Callaghan wrote: > > << > > > Butch, > > It is the magnetic field OUTSIDE the toroid that generates > the current in the secondary coil. > > >> > > Maybe you could reconsider this. It would make no sense using Hi-mu cores > to keep the flux within, then. Oh yes, those 'self shielding' torroids, the ones you use to prevent physically proximate inductors from coupling? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 16:30:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21728; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:25:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:25:40 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDC007.A592B040@que4-p2.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 00:26:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDC007.A592B040" Resent-Message-ID: <"KfPZn2.0.QJ5.pXvnr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5533 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC007.A592B040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Bob, << Ant=F3nio Vilela wrote: >=20 > Hello everyone, >=20 > David Callaghan wrote: >=20 > << > >=20 > Butch, >=20 > It is the magnetic field OUTSIDE the toroid that generates > the current in the secondary coil. > > >> >=20 > Maybe you could reconsider this. It would make no sense using Hi-mu = cores > to keep the flux within, then. Oh yes, those 'self shielding' torroids, the ones you use to prevent physically proximate inductors from coupling? >> Yes, well... You know what I mean. Best regards, Ant=F3nio Vilela ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC007.A592B040 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgsXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAQAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAABF40AQSAAQA1AAAAUkU6 IEFmdGVyIDUgUGguRCdzIEkgZ2V0IHJpZ2h0IGFuc3dlciBvbiB0cmFuc2Zvcm1lcgCjEQEFgAMA DgAAAM4HCAAFAAAAGgAIAAMABwEBIIADAA4AAADOBwgABQAAABoACAADAAcBAQmAAQAhAAAAQUE1 OTE0RjhGOTJCRDIxMUI2RjYzMEFFMEJDMTAwMDAAIQcBA5AGACAEAAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYA AAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQAAm0RC/7+9AR4AcAABAAAANQAAAFJFOiBB ZnRlciA1IFBoLkQncyBJIGdldCByaWdodCBhbnN3ZXIgb24gdHJhbnNmb3JtZXIAAAAAAgFxAAEA AAAWAAAAAb2//0JE1Z43piv6EdK29jCuC8EAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAA ABcAAAB2aWxlbGFAbWFpbC50ZWxlcGFjLnB0AAADAAYQuqs5eQMABxCEAQAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAA SEVMTE9CT0IsPDxBTlTzTklPVklMRUxBV1JPVEU6SEVMTE9FVkVSWU9ORSxEQVZJRENBTExBR0hB TldST1RFOjw8PFNOSVBCVVRDSCxJVElTVEhFTUFHTkVUSUNGSUVMRE9VVAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAHEC AABtAgAAQQQAAExaRnWPM2MF/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzID xgcTAoPGMwPFAgBwcnESIBOI+jQTDX0KgAjPCdkCgAqB0w2xC2BuZwHQNw3wCwpDFCIB0CBIZWwX ICAQQm9iLAqLbGkx5DQ0AtFpLRxzDNAcc5MaDAqFPDwLSjE2CqD9A2B0BZAFQAqPC5EVsgwB5SAW QQIwXCcUEAMAGyBGVgMQGvBhIHcgIjqdIJU+HoYksBrkZXYEkBp5AiBlG3YkuURhdrBpZCBDB0AL YGcRwF8DoCPvJGUfAClocwMAcOY+KN8bMHV0EbAmTySwBkkFQAQAIHRoZSCFAMBnJiB0aWMgHMAD GvAnsE9VVFNJRGpFLfN0BbBvJ6EuAGH9BUBnCfAEkDCAB5Ashy4C/mMIcBeQAjAtwAOgLgIR8GkF oG5kCsB5MgAwIGw2LiofJGU+Kv8ksE1hrHliLiAmAHUzkXUvAb8XkDMhAJAEgS3xBAAuLZLWdzdj AMBrLiBuGyAR8HsAgC4gdQCQGUAa0BzQbZ83MheQMTkbIDlwZXAt8ykZEHV4KGBpOGFuLM0t8m4z 5iCVT2g3AAeQlT1CbzoBJxHwbGYy8Pc4cC7xOlEnL+IwEj7jLiDfJhEEIDcSOjAv0iAUwCXBowIw IJVwaHkAkGMn4XZ5QtYDYHgHcDEBMoFk/nUgYAWwBCADUjdCC1A6Ub4/PbwZrxqxNXdG5Vk+0rp3 GvEuSiBJgDchazmg1QfgdzBySS4wZQBwPa3uQgeQBUAXkGcLET7gRuW/Is8LRhLyIhlG5RaxAFEA AAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzDAt0MC/7+9AUAACDAAm0RC/7+9AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJF OiAAAAAAAwANNP03AAApIg== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC007.A592B040-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 17:44:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29741; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001801bdc007$6badd3a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 01:24:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"EDpu4.0.cG7.LWwnr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5534 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Antonio, So you are saying that if you had a 40 mile diameter toroid, about one metre thick, with a secondary of 20 miles diameter, the same power would be induced as would be if the coil was wrapped tight around the toroid? Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: António Vilela To: 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com' Date: Tuesday 04 August 1998 06:57 Subject: RE: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer >Hello everyone, > >David Callaghan wrote: > ><< > > >Butch, > >It is the magnetic field OUTSIDE the toroid that generates >the current in the secondary coil. > >>> > >Maybe you could reconsider this. It would make no sense using Hi-mu cores >to keep the flux within, then. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 17:57:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07384; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:52:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:52:16 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDC013.BD8D2F20@que4-p2.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 01:52:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDC013.BD8D2F20" Resent-Message-ID: <"tKyAJ1.0.Ip1._ownr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5535 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC013.BD8D2F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello David, David Callaghan wrote: << Antonio, So you are saying that if you had a 40 mile diameter toroid, about one metre thick, with a secondary of 20 miles diameter, the same power would be induced as would be if the coil was wrapped tight around the toroid? >> I'm not quite sure of what you are describing, but if you are comparing = (for the same toroidal core and primary) two different secondary = windings, one wrapped tightly around the core and another wound with a = larger diameter and with the same number of loops (with a thicker wire = so to have the same resistance), and the core is not saturated, then yes = I would expect the power transfer difference to be minimal. (as well as = the same voltage induced on the secondary) You don't agree? Best regards Ant=F3nio Vilela ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC013.BD8D2F20 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ii0AAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQA1AAAAUkU6 IEFmdGVyIDUgUGguRCdzIEkgZ2V0IHJpZ2h0IGFuc3dlciBvbiB0cmFuc2Zvcm1lcgCjEQEFgAMA DgAAAM4HCAAFAAEANAAqAAMARAEBIIADAA4AAADOBwgABQABACkADAADABsBAQmAAQAhAAAAQUUz NzlFRDVGQTJCRDIxMUI2RjYzMEFFMEJDMTAwMDAAPQcBA5AGAJwEAAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYA AAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQCACllaC8C9AR4AcAABAAAANQAAAFJFOiBB ZnRlciA1IFBoLkQncyBJIGdldCByaWdodCBhbnN3ZXIgb24gdHJhbnNmb3JtZXIAAAAAAgFxAAEA AAAWAAAAAb3AC1pZ1Z43ryv6EdK29jCuC8EAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAA ABcAAAB2aWxlbGFAbWFpbC50ZWxlcGFjLnB0AAADAAYQRvz2zgMABxB6AgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAA SEVMTE9EQVZJRCxEQVZJRENBTExBR0hBTldST1RFOjw8QU5UT05JTyxTT1lPVUFSRVNBWUlOR1RI QVRJRllPVUhBREE0ME1JTEVESUFNRVRFUlRPUk9JRCxBQk9VVE9ORU1FVAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAO0C AADpAgAA8QQAAExaRnUTbZBc/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzID xgcTAoPGMwPFAgBwcnESIBOI+jQTDX0KgAjPCdkCgAqB0w2xC2BuZwHQNw3wCwpDFCIB0CBIZWwX ICDARGF2aWQsCoUKiyBsaTE0NALRaS2fHQMM0B0DGgwbQyBDB0AtC2BnEcADoHcDYHRlkjobrDw8 C0oxNgqg/SAyYwVACo8LkRWyDAEidqZBAjACIGlvG51TGyAKeQhgIArAZSBzYeJ5C4BnIHQRwAVA BpAnJqMRwB9gYSAdICBt+wMQJxBkBzAHgCBQBcAlQP8DYBt4AaAIYAVAAiAnEClxQycBJ6BpY2ss IBBpTyegKJER8AWgbmQKwHnvKwAoABqxKPJzIvUpRiwAhyegJxIHgCBwb3cpoWp3CGBsH2BiJxAL gGT8dWMJgCbgBCAv5iL1J/EXLvIFoAMRdzDycmFw8nAwwXRpH9AFQArACGA3LNAu4ynUPyL/Gkg+ PkEbrEknbSBuIEAgfHF1LDAnEQhwJxAtMXdvJ7Imtg2wBPJiJ2EsAGJvKuEn9SbyBaBtNUEnYij/ AhApsS8GKdQHQDJxJwEAcO8fYBTAB3As8SknkC/gKTH/DdAEkAnwBUAsmAPwLNAnYe5zLAArEjMb bC0QM/k9t38AcCBALwAvwzQxLCULYHI+ZymhKUc+AiwjLvdudU8G0CmhLTEXIG9wBCAo9ywlK7Mv smknAhsgJUAoUV52K5IvFReQAJBzAZBu/TCwKSwAPgJCpwQAN/MnML50CHAnwAmALtMDoHkHkfJJ L9VleDNQIsEu8i+E/ytwAHE/QT8HMLBJUjBBKPDzAwAAwGwuPDAw8hrxMOL9Lvd2BvABkETwMGcC IC7kVSymKRusWSbBZAIgJ+8z0QnCNQY1FUIHkAVAF5DOZwsRLdYlIVwnFBAlYfwgVikBC2ALRhLy JHk1FQUWsQBcAAAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwYIbCvgnAvQFAAAgwYIbCvgnAvQEeAD0A AQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAAUg= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC013.BD8D2F20-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 18:46:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12910; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:45:38 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:31:04 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"svuJ13.0.b93.-axnr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5536 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-08-04 18:40:20 EDT, you write: << It is the magnetic field OUTSIDE the toroid that generates > the current in the secondary coil. >> The professor said that the field in the core stayed in the core and did not cut the coil windings, and that there was no field to speak of outside the core. Regards, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 19:15:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17561; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:13:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:13:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <007801bdc016$40a65ce0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 03:10:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"pMf942.0.JI4.7_xnr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5537 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Antonio Tell you what, I'll (try to find the time to) hack up an old toroidal transformer tomorrow and I'll give it a try (on a smaller scale!). If you are correct, does that also mean that induced voltage would be the same if a bar magnet was dropped in turn through a 2 inch and 10 inch coil of the same DC resistance? This one is easer to try! Sorry, I'm just enjoying playing the devils advocate at the minute. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 19:54:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27701; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:50:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:50:04 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:46:28 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"IKRhd.0.em6.RXynr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5538 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 8/4/98 5:49:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time, DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk writes: << So you are saying that if you had a 40 mile diameter toroid, about one metre thick, with a secondary of 20 miles diameter, the same power would be induced as would be if the coil was wrapped tight around the toroid? >> Point of order--- The original question was whether the induced VOLTAGE would be the same. I think the answer to that (same number of turns, of course) is clearly "yes", if the winding is open circuit. That is assuming 40 miles isn't so large that the flux lines don't follow the toroid any more. But the question of power is different. The mutual inductance between the primary and the two possible secondaries is quite different, and I certainly think you cannot transfer nearly as much power to the seconday 20 miles in diameter. So what would happen is open circuit the voltage would be the same but as soon as you started to draw current with a load, in the 20 mile coil, the coil voltage would drop to near zero. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 20:06:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA27443; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:04:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:04:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008301bdc017$1c95c4c0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 03:16:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"aQJoo3.0.ji6.5lynr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5539 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Butch wrote: >The professor said that the field in the core stayed in the core and did not >cut the coil windings, and that there was no field to speak of outside the >core. That's the theory. But try placing a loaded toroidal tx near to your monitor. Electrical shielding with aluminium sheet doesn't help either Regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 20:10:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA28722; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:08:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:08:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <71a93786.35c7caa6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:59:49 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Strong Magnets Available Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"89beH2.0.f07.eoynr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5540 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For those who may need very strong magnets for experiments I recommend 1.74" x 1.43" x .24" thick slightly curved neodymium magnets from All Electronics 1-800-826-5432, Cat No. MAG-23, $5.50 each. I have paid MUCH more for about the same size and strength. I ordered a few weeks ago and they had plenty available. Notice-- For those who have not worked with very strong magnets: be careful - two unlike poles will vigorously attract each other, and the fact that your finger may be in the way does not much matter - except to your finger. (the voice of experience) Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 20:56:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10020; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:53:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:53:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35C7D0BA.9CD01178@darknet.net> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 23:25:46 -0400 From: Steve Organization: DarkNet Online/Digital Fusion X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Strong Magnets Available References: <71a93786.35c7caa6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sAtVm3.0.TS2.HTznr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5541 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Notice-- For those who have not worked with very strong magnets: be > careful - two unlike poles will vigorously attract each other, and the > fact that your finger may be in the way does not much matter - except > to your finger. (the voice of expe rience) Hi All, I've worked with neodymium magnets before, and I agree with the reference to the fingers.. I've had my fingers pinched several times, once between 4 of the magnets, mounted on metal brackets.. ouch.. Also once I walked too close to the workbench, and 2 of the magnets that were still attached to the mounting bracket slid across the bench and grabbed on to my keys and coins in my pocket.. my bank card was fried.. I don't have any credit cards, so no problem there, but I need a new bank card.. it was interesting to see what happened when I had the card put thru a magnetic scanner in a store.. when I mentioned what had happened, the guy in the store said "yup. the card is scragged".. whatever that means.. I have about 8 magnets of that approximate size, but no idea what type of experiments I could use them for, besides having 2 people stand apart and toss the magnets in the general direction of each other and watch them come together in mid-air.. very cool.. one problem with this, is that pieces tend to break off the magnets.. the ones I have are coated, but they're starting to chip and crack.. (maybe if they were coated with foam rubber or something..?) Any suggestions for actual experiments I could use these magnets for? ttyl -Steve -- darklord@darknet.net | UIN: 5113616 DarkNet Online: http://www.darknet.net Digital Fusion: http://www.darknet.net/fusion From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 21:01:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA11200; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 23:43:58 -0400 To: rife-list@eskimo.com, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: fredw@mks.com (Fred Walter) (by way of mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca) Subject: more patents added to my web-site Cc: Fred Walter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jG6nI1.0.pk2.SYznr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5542 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FYI Chris Gupta If you are still on the Rife mailing-list, could you mention that (amongst others) that I've added Moray's "Electrotherapeutic Apparatus" patent (US # 2,460,707) to: http://www.u36.com/fred/patents From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 21:07:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10871; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:05:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:05:55 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <920f7d08.35c7d9b2@aol.com> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 00:04:01 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"akbzh3.0.nf2.Yeznr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5543 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-08-04 23:56:50 EDT, you write: << So you are saying that if you had a 40 mile diameter toroid, about one metre thick, with a secondary of 20 miles diameter, the same power would be induced as would be if the coil was wrapped tight around the toroid? >> Could some one please draw a sketch of this (not to scale please!) and put with email or on web? Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 21:52:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20020; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:50:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:50:46 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDC02B.551E0780@que1-p1.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 04:41:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDC02B.55272F40" Resent-Message-ID: <"lp8lK3.0.fu4.cI-nr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5544 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC02B.55272F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello David, << Antonio Tell you what, I'll (try to find the time to) hack up an old toroidal transformer tomorrow and I'll give it a try (on a smaller scale!). >> Pleeeeaase tell me the results :-) << If you are correct, does that also mean that induced voltage would be = the same if a bar magnet was dropped in turn through a 2 inch and 10 inch = coil of the same DC resistance? This one is easer to try! >> Not quite. In the first case it is true because of the particular = geometry of the toroid. Since most of the flux is within the core, whatever the = secondary diameter, the flux through each loop will always be the same and equal = to the total flux in the core. The key is: no dispersion. The case of the magnet is quite different because of flux dispersion on = the outside of the bar. While the total flux in the bar is the same, when it leaves = the poles it=20 spreads in the surrounding space, getting weaker with the distance. In the limit, you can drop a magnet through a very large coil and detect = nothing, because most of the flux (internal and pole to pole) will be = inside the coil. Note that in this case the total flux through each loop will = be almost zero,=20 as it is the sum of two parts: the internal flux and the external flux = which is opposite. << Sorry, I'm just enjoying playing the devils advocate at the minute. >> Yes, I'm used to it... But I enjoy it also. 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BAUER) Subject: total revision of gravitational converter article Resent-Message-ID: <"ysKRe2.0.z2.4o-nr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5545 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello ! Yesterday I got a critique regarding my gravitational converter article at www.overunity.com/gb/gb.htm which had really substance in it and which enforces me to work over the theme completely because I had done the whole thing too quick and dirty ! Stefan Hartmann has taken out my analysis therefore. The claims of the inventor, however are described as before. The point is as follows: If the Hamilton analysis is made the the forces calculated on G1 and G2 from the Hamilton formalism + constraint h2=-2.h1 are such that G1.h1=G2.h2 is fulfilled. That means, we have indeed energy conservation if we calculate the things acc. to this method. A further point was that the constraint was wrongly formulated and is correct h2=-3.h1 which does not change the final result which would disprove the claims. Sincely Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 23:04:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29695; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:03:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:03:46 -0700 Message-ID: <35C900CB.1C9157D9@ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 18:03:07 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"y-ZBa.0.uF7.1N_nr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5546 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keasy@aol.com wrote: > So what would happen is open circuit the voltage would be the same > but as soon as you started to draw current with a load, in the 20 mile coil, > the coil voltage would drop to near zero. Would not mind a small bet saying you are wrong, The question here is what if you have the secondary with 30 percent of the winds in one direction would straight on the core, and have the 70 percent wound on top of the rest of the winds (in the opposite direction) perhaps with an air gap, now the 70 percent who are wound in the opposite direction will have the strongest induction over powering the 30 but the 30 percent will (with a large enough air gap) have the strongest magnetic field in the core, overpowering the 70 percent in the core in's self. John Berry From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 4 23:57:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01207; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:56:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:56:47 -0700 Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808050657.XAA28310@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA01187 Resent-Message-ID: <"ihKkb1.0.nI.k80or"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5547 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:10 AM 8/5/98 +0100, you wrote: > >Tell you what, I'll (try to find the time to) hack up an old toroidal >transformer tomorrow and I'll give it a try (on a smaller scale!). > I agree with António and Ken that the voltage should be the same. I have tried this on a lamination core with 2 different secondaries, the same number of turns. The larger diameter one would have, of course, more leakage inductance. I used 10 turns each on a 1 x 1 inch (2.54cm) core with a voltage of about 2 Volts each. The close coupled sec. was wound on the core, the larger one was loose. >If you are correct, does that also mean that induced voltage would be the >same if a bar magnet was dropped in turn through a 2 inch and 10 inch coil >of the same DC resistance? This one is easer to try! > No, because of the magnet's air flux in the opposite direction of that in the bar. I agree with António. Butch, the geometry would be: The toroid core is a ring 40 units diameter with its center at the origin and in the x-y plane. The secondary is in the x-z plane with its center at x=20. Thus a 20 unit separation. By the way found some enamel coated "Advance" resistance wire. A copper nickel alloy. I could not detect any magnetic attraction with a small neodym. magnet. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 5 09:28:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12378; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:24:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <5da4932a.35c8853a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:15:53 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"uhqjp.0.E13.eS8or"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5548 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 8/5/98 12:35:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, antigrav@ihug.co.nz writes: << Keasy@aol.com wrote: > So what would happen is open circuit the voltage would be the same > but as soon as you started to draw current with a load, in the 20 mile coil, > the coil voltage would drop to near zero. Would not mind a small bet saying you are wrong, The question here is what if you have the secondary with 30 percent of the winds in one direction would straight on the core, and have the 70 percent wound on top of the rest of the winds (in the opposite direction) perhaps with an air gap, now the 70 percent who are wound in the opposite direction will have the strongest induction over powering the 30 but the 30 percent will (with a large enough air gap) have the strongest magnetic field in the core, overpowering the 70 percent in the core in's self. John Berr >> Sorry, I only bet on electronics results AFTER I have done an experiment to verify what I think will happen, and in this case I have not :-) I see your point. The argument I would like to use is that when current begins flowing in the secondary all the coupling (and secondary self inductance) will be from the 30 percent closely wound. But among the problems with that is that the total secondary voltage, with no current, is the wrong polarity. This is a simple enough experiment to try -- the scale size of miles is not necessary. Unless it becomes clear what happens I will set it up and see (then I will be willing to bet). Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 5 13:56:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05146; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:53:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:53:18 -0700 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Strong Magnets Available Message-ID: <19980805.165524.7351.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <71a93786.35c7caa6@aol.com> <35C7D0BA.9CD01178@darknet.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-13 Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 16:53:42 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"NN_Ey2.0.HG1.zOCor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5549 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 04 Aug 1998 23:25:46 -0400 Steve writes: >I have about 8 magnets of that approximate size, but no idea what type >of experiments I could use them for, they would make an interesting smot (try the wedge-type Mark 1 version since you only have 8--4 per side). Just an idea. >-- > darklord@darknet.net | UIN: 5113616 > DarkNet Online: http://www.darknet.net >Digital Fusion: http://www.darknet.net/fusion > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 5 18:40:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06950; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 18:38:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 18:38:00 -0700 Message-ID: <35C90845.E2977999@harti.com> Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 03:35:01 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: gravitational converter article revised on the net again Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"c0WYB3.0.Wi1.tZGor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5550 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Dieter Bauer told me to post this: I corrected my article now and I hope that it is better now. http://www.overunity.com/gb I still believe acc. to my analysis that the perpetuum mobile claim makes sense if you look at the theory ! Sincerly Dieter Bauer -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 01:12:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA12134; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:11:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:11:25 -0700 Message-ID: <00b001bdc111$da1a3f80$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:11:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"bPSJa3.0.Wz2.iKMor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5551 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This particular topic has caused many arguments. After all the arguments, references from text books etc, none of us are really any closer to understanding what REALLY causes the induced current in a coil around a contained magnetic field. Relying on text books to explain everything places hard boundaries on your thinking. The difference between a scientist and a Great Scientist is the ability to ignore what they know when studying a problem and face the facts presented to them objectively. It takes a strong man to go against the flow of popular belief. Science is the study of nature, not of text books. Science also has the habit of contradicting itself: what was once obviously true suddenly becomes false. My deliberate introducement of 'miles' into our conversations seemed to have the desired effect. People questioned their belief when the distances got big. I design electronic systems for a living, and only use theory as a guide. The rift between theory and reality is sometimes remarkable. If theory was always correct, potentiometers would only be used for volume controls :-) Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 04:18:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA06584; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 04:17:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 04:17:46 -0700 Message-ID: <007b01bdc12b$e2162ae0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: OT: Sleep Paralysis Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:17:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"paMq-2.0.hc1.P3Por"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5552 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is not as off topic as it may seem but..... After watching a recent program on sleep on UK TV, they stated that one in five people worldwide have the same dream at some time in their lives. They had studies ranging from the US to third world countries. Each country interpreted the dreams by means of their culture. The story's tallied pretty well with alien abduction as well - with people losing time. The dream is this: You awake in fear and are paralysed, only able to move your eyes. There is someone or thing in your room that presses on your chest to try and prevent you breathing, or touches you in some way. Has anyone on this list had this dream? Anyone ever dreamed what you see on TV the next day? Also, they showed telepathy using 'normal' people by a type of sensory deprivation. This was a serious documentary. I'll speak more on this later and then come to the FREE-NRG point. By the way, your brain uses one quarter of all the energy consumed by you body. I think the average person uses 120K Calories per hour at rest. That equates to 30K Calories per hour consumed by the brain. Roughly translated to Joules thats 120K Joules per hour, or 33 Joules per second, which by any stretch of the imagination is a lot of power. Anyone know more about this. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 04:29:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA08593; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 04:28:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 04:28:28 -0700 Message-ID: <009501bdc12d$6034bd00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: , Subject: Re: COOLING DEVICE Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:28:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"l-RIJ.0.B62.RDPor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5553 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Patrick I have found the thermionic cooling device article and will soon scan and OCR it. Would you like a copy? Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Tremblay >How could we build a SOLID STATE cooling apparaturs that would employ >coils and/or resistors and/or capacitors to extract heat from a room, >convert it in electricity and then conduct it via electric wires and >then reject it with resistors loads or store it in a battery ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 05:52:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA28142; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 05:51:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 05:51:16 -0700 From: SHESUZ22@aol.com Message-ID: <7365e38f.35c9a6b8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:51:03 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: OT: Sleep Paralysis Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Resent-Message-ID: <"cHBNM3.0.Zt6.4RQor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5554 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: were there any other common/mass dreams exampled???? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 07:20:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24646; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:19:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:19:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:52:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: OT: Sleep Paralysis To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <007b01bdc12b$e2162ae0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"CBhBn2.0.016.1kRor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5555 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, David Callaghan wrote: > This is not as off topic as it may seem but..... > > After watching a recent program on sleep on UK TV, they stated that one > in five people worldwide have the same dream at some time in their lives. > They had studies ranging from the US to third world countries. Each country > interpreted the dreams by means of their culture. The story's tallied > pretty > well with alien abduction as well - with people losing time. > > The dream is this: > > You awake in fear and are paralysed, only able to move your eyes. There is > someone or thing in your room that presses on your chest to try and prevent > you breathing, or touches you in some way. > > Has anyone on this list had this dream? Can't say I ever had that one or anything like it. > Anyone ever dreamed what you see on TV the next day? That's never happened tp me either. I think the strangest dream I ever had started out in a small bungalow on the bank of some small lake. I was kidnaped by Mafia types who had me roped up, and we took off across the lake in a small boat. The boat went into a cave and came out in a pyramid. There was some alien creature in the pyramid which was following us. It killed the Mafia types and was chasing me. Then I woke up and never returned to the dream scene to finish it! Usually these days I don't remember my dreams. Even if I remember one when I wake up, by noon it's completely forgotten. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 09:06:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28310; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:05:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:05:40 -0700 Message-ID: <19980806154647.4882.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:46:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: OT: Sleep Paralysis To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"RymIM2.0.Gw6.KHTor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5556 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---David Callaghan wrote: > > This is not as off topic as it may seem but..... > > After watching a recent program on sleep on UK TV, they stated that one > in five people worldwide have the same dream at some time in their lives. > They had studies ranging from the US to third world countries. Each country > interpreted the dreams by means of their culture. The story's tallied > pretty > well with alien abduction as well - with people losing time. > > The dream is this: > > You awake in fear and are paralysed, only able to move your eyes. There is > someone or thing in your room that presses on your chest to try and prevent > you breathing, or touches you in some way. > > Has anyone on this list had this dream? > Anyone ever dreamed what you see on TV the next day? Have had this dream once or twice -- many years ago. Have had several times where I dreamed things that happened the next day.....wierd and unpredictable things. Have also had dreams where I traveled to another city/place that I had never visited....later verified that houses/objects in dreams were close to accurate. I tend to call these Astral dreams. > > Also, they showed telepathy using 'normal' people by a type of sensory > deprivation. Telepathy seems to depend on relaxation and tuning-out some of the other sensory inputs. Sensory deprevation would force one to focus more on the 'other' senses. == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 10:28:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27634; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:27:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:27:21 -0700 Message-ID: <005b01bdc15f$81762760$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: OT: Sleep Paralysis Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 18:24:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"xBw5B1.0.Yl6.uTUor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5558 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anton The program also proved the Astral travel you described. A subject was to sleep in a room. Whilst they slept (proven by EEG), a piece of paper with a random five digit number was placed on top of a high shelf in the room. The subject could not physically get up to view the paper as this would require them to disconnect the EEG, and they were being watched by camera and the scientist running the tests. After a period of REM sleep (which can be monitored by the EEG), the subject was immediately woken and asked the number. The subjects correctly identified the number many times in succession, which gives some massive odds on them guessing the numbers by chance. Anton - could you describe your paralysis dream(s) in detail to me? Could you tell me what country you live in? -----Original Message----- From: Anton Rager >Have had this dream once or twice -- many years ago. >Have had several times where I dreamed things that happened the next >day.....wierd and unpredictable things. Have also had dreams where I >traveled to another city/place that I had never visited....later >verified that houses/objects in dreams were close to accurate. I tend >to call these Astral dreams. >Telepathy seems to depend on relaxation and tuning-out some of the >other sensory inputs. Sensory deprevation would force one to focus >more on the 'other' senses. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 10:28:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27613; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:27:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:27:20 -0700 Message-ID: <005a01bdc15f$807a6240$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: OT: Sleep Paralysis Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 18:14:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"QUpWf3.0.9l6.tTUor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5557 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This was the only common dream. Other dreams were said to be the mind sorting out emotional problems. People deprived of REM (dream) sleep suffered emotional problems and caught up with REM sleep at the next chance. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk -----Original Message----- From: SHESUZ22@aol.com >were there any other common/mass dreams exampled???? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 10:37:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA32234; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:35:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:35:32 -0700 Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:36:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: OT: Sleep Paralysis To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <19980806154647.4882.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Mne-d.0.Yt7.ZbUor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5559 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, Anton Rager wrote: > Have had several times where I dreamed things that happened the next > day.....wierd and unpredictable things. Have also had dreams where I > traveled to another city/place that I had never visited....later > verified that houses/objects in dreams were close to accurate. I tend > to call these Astral dreams. > > > > > Also, they showed telepathy using 'normal' people by a type of sensory > > deprivation. > > Telepathy seems to depend on relaxation and tuning-out some of the > other sensory inputs. Sensory deprevation would force one to focus > more on the 'other' senses. > > == > Anton Rager > a_rager@yahoo.com That reminds me of another one. There is a tiny railroad stop north of Urbana, IL called Leverett. Back in the 70's I had seen the road signs pointing to it but had never passed through it. One night I dreamed I was in Leverett and had vivid pictures of the buildings. A couple weeks later I drove through it, and it was almost exactly as I pictured it in the dream. Rod Serling, where are you? :-) Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 10:56:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA06187; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:54:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:54:41 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <007b01bdc12b$e2162ae0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:53:32 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: OT: Sleep Paralysis Resent-Message-ID: <"X1jxm.0.aW1.XtUor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5560 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David - > You awake in fear and are paralysed, only able > to move your eyes. There is someone or thing > in your room that presses on your chest to try > and prevent you breathing, or touches you in > some way. They're your old friends, David. They can't bear to see you caught in that monkey like that, so they figure if they could just squeeze the wind out of it, you might be able to escape. Go to the light, David... ;) Ok ok - so what's the free energy angle? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 11:25:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA17629; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:23:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:23:20 -0700 Message-ID: <19980806182619.1003.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:26:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: OT: Sleep Paralysis To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"hEJwf1.0.NJ4.OIVor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5561 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi David/All, > The program also proved the Astral travel you described. Interesting. I am trying to build up the confidence to try some controlled astral stuff in [semi] wake state. Need to get more comfy with active/dynamic meditations first. Not sure I want to do it just yet. > Anton - could you describe your paralysis dream(s) in detail to me? Could > you > tell me what country you live in? Haven't had a paralysis dream in a while -- seem to remember that it normally involves some crisis, and I can't move out of the way of harm. Also seem to remember one where someone was in trouble, but I was unable to move to help them. Details beyond that become sketchy. I currently live in Denver, CO USA....but am in the process of moving to Castle Rock, CO USA. What did the program say about folks that have this sort of dream??? do they tend to believe in Free Energy and Mystical stuff more than others? ;) Write me offline and tell me more about the telepathy and Astral parts of the program. I have a large interest in this, but no need to bother the list with it. == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 11:41:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22966; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:39:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:39:29 -0700 Message-ID: <35C9F3C5.53D2@microtec.net> Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 14:22:13 -0400 From: Patrick Tremblay Reply-To: energeon@microtec.net Organization: Energeon X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: OT: Time Travel References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"V2IAW.0.gc5.WXVor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5562 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HI, This topic has something to do with all your dreams theories. There is a category of dream that is like those Astral travel but you also travel in the future, where you recognise shapes and buildings but the action is in the future. I was thinking that perhaps there is a way to build a Time Test circuit, consisting of a caduceus coil and it could send electromagnetic signals back in time, then one could couple a computer and software to analyse the received info and pilot the coil. This project would be completely technological, nothing psychic would be involved. Althoug this is more Science Fiction than serious science, there's maybe a way to achieve this. thanks, -- Energeon, 7515 Jodelle, Laval West (quebec), Canada, H7R-5L5, FAX: 1-514-686-6083 PHONE: 1-514-962-1678 Patrick Tremblay energeon@microtec.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 14:19:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04660; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:17:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:17:17 -0700 Message-ID: <35CA1C82.EAA@spu.edu> Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 14:13:38 -0700 From: TK Reply-To: tnk@spu.edu Organization: me X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OT: Sleep Paralysis References: <19980806154647.4882.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vZ3wJ3.0.h81.SrXor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5563 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have had a few dreams where I would wake up and me paralyzed except for my eyes. There was a funny tingling sensation that accompanied the paralyzation as well. In one case, I did feel a pressure on my chest and couldn't breathe. I said a prayer and it went away. I never saw any person or object out of place in the rooms where I had the dreams. I think it may be some medical sleep condition, that it is possible to 'grow out of'. TK ---------------------------------------------- Anton Rager wrote: > > ---David Callaghan wrote: > > > > This is not as off topic as it may seem but..... > > > > After watching a recent program on sleep on UK TV, they stated that > one > > in five people worldwide have the same dream at some time in their > lives. > > They had studies ranging from the US to third world countries. Each > country > > interpreted the dreams by means of their culture. The story's tallied > > pretty > > well with alien abduction as well - with people losing time. > > > > The dream is this: > > > > You awake in fear and are paralysed, only able to move your eyes. > There is > > someone or thing in your room that presses on your chest to try and > prevent > > you breathing, or touches you in some way. > > > > Has anyone on this list had this dream? > > Anyone ever dreamed what you see on TV the next day? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 15:13:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25352; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:12:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:12:35 -0700 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Fun with Transformers Message-ID: <19980806.181041.2527.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-14,16-21,25-35,37-55,57-79,81-104 Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 18:08:54 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"g6rBE1.0.zB6.JfYor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5564 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all..... Here is a portion of Bearden's definitions that I found at.... www.nol.net/~fogal/glossary.htm May shed some light on how transformers work! *****start***** Vector magnetic potential. The A-field is a real field -- not a mathematical convenience as was originally thought -- as detailed in the second volume of Feynman's three volumes of physics. Indeed, it may be separated from the magnetic field, as reported by Feynman, and used for instrumentation effects in the manner patented by Gelinas. When separated, it is often referred to as the "curl-free vector potential," since the B-field is modeled as being created from the A-field. In other words, B is defined as the curl of the magnetic vector potential, if we use B. The curl-free vector potential is particularly interesting because (1) it is a unique and independent field of nature, (2) its curl produces a magnetic field, (3) its time derivative produces an electric field, and (4) its magnitude does not fall off inversely as the distance squared, but only inversely as the distance. AHARONOV, YAKIR Renowned Israeli quantum physicist and former student of David Bohm. Co-discoverer of the Aharonov-Bohm effect: Even when the electromagnetic force fields reduce to zero in a charged particle system, the potentials may still exist and interfere to cause real physical effects. Together with Bohm, Aharonov authored a fundamental paper in 1959 which pointed out the primary importance of the potentials rather than the force fields. Indeed, the force fields are only made in and of the charged particle system itself, by interference there of potentials, and do not exist as such in the vacuum. The forcefields are thus not primary electromagnetic causes at all, but are secondary effects due to the interference of potentials in a particular charged particle system. [See Aharonov-Bohm Effect] In his three volumes of physics, Feynman pointed out that the forcefields do not exist as such in the vacuum, and that only the potential for the forcefields exists in vacuum. The primary causative agents for electromagnetics are thus the potentials. This has been proven both theoretically and experimentally in quantum mechanics, but still does not appear in present classical electromagnetic theory taught in universities. AHARONOV-BOHM EFFECT Phenomenon theoretically pointed out in 1959 by Yakir Aharonov and David Bohm whereby interfering electromagnetic potentials can produce effects on charged particle systems, even at a distance and in the absence of the electromagnetic force fields. Chambers experimentally demonstrated the effect one year later. When E- and B-fields are zero in a region, their potentials still may exist and thus be stable and persistent. Being gradient-free, a force-free potential is not changing; no bleed-in or bleed-off of its magnitude or of its internal structure is occurring. Interference of the potentials produces real electromagnetic effects (energy) in the interference zone, even at a great distance, without transmission of "field energy" per se through the intervening 3-space. [Rigorously, the potential's EM energy can be considered to be hyperspatially transmitted, or subspatially transmitted (tunneled) via the Whittaker internal EM biwave mechanism. See discussions under action at a distance.] In 1897-8 Stoney showed (in Philosophical Magazine) by physical reasoning that all the disturbances of the ether arising from sources of certain kinds can be resolved into trains of plane waves. This was extended and the general and special equations written by E.T. Whittaker in 1903 in Mathematische Annalen. In 1904 (delivered orally in 1903) Whittaker's second paper dealing with the subject was published in the Proceedings of the London Mathematical Society, and showed that scalar EM potential interferometry is in fact what generates the classical EM force fields. The two Whittaker papers may be interpreted to show a startling hyperspatial arrangement in a potential or EM wave. (1) any wave in a particular 3-space is due to interfering potentials in that space, which is the same as interfering multiwave sets in a hyper-3-space; (2) any single potential in a particular 3-space is due to a single harmonic biwave set in hyper-3-space. And so on ad infinitum, in infinite-dimensional spacetime. Take a single EM potential in a given 3-space. It is decomposable into a hyper-3-space bidirectional EM wave set, in an infinite harmonic phase-locked series. Take any EM wave in that hyper-3-space. It is composed of the interference of two or more scalar EM potentials in a separate 3-space. Each of these potentials is then decomposable into a multiwave pair set again, in yet another 3-space, and so on. ****The end**** Wasn't that a nice little snip? Steve Heckman _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 18:27:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11823; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 18:26:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 18:26:36 -0700 Message-ID: <017d01bdc19e$c48cd780$9aec060c@davelook> From: "davelook" To: Subject: Re: OT: Sleep Paralysis Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:00:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"PZgkk3.0.Tu2.CVbor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5565 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Write me offline and tell me more about the telepathy and Astral parts >of the program. I have a large interest in this, but no need to >bother the list with it. Me too. davelook@gsinet.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 20:22:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24325; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:20:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:20:30 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35C7D0BA.9CD01178@darknet.net> References: <71a93786.35c7caa6@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:09:38 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Strong Magnets Available Resent-Message-ID: <"I64kj.0._x5.-9dor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5566 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I have about 8 magnets of that approximate size, but no idea what type >of experiments I could use them for, besides having 2 people stand >apart and toss the magnets in the general direction of each other >and watch them come together in mid-air.. very cool.. one problem with >this, is that pieces tend to break off the magnets.. the ones I have >are coated, but they're starting to chip and crack.. (maybe if they >were coated with foam rubber or something..?) > >Any suggestions for actual experiments I could use these magnets for? > >ttyl >-Steve >-- > darklord@darknet.net | UIN: 5113616 > DarkNet Online: http://www.darknet.net >Digital Fusion: http://www.darknet.net/fusion Put them in your oil pan or on your oil filter, they will catch lots of iron filings and make your engine list MUCH longer. (325,000 miles on my VW engine years ago). Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 22:36:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA12708; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:35:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:35:50 -0700 Message-ID: <009201bdc1c5$47c12400$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Cooling Device Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 06:36:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"oYJLX.0.T63.r8for"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5567 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I had offered to send some people the article on the thermionic cooling device I had mentioned. The exact same article can be found at: http://www.newscientist.com/ns/980124/features1.html Someone had already given the site name of the company featured previously on the list. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 22:49:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15875; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:48:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:48:38 -0700 Message-ID: <35CA9428.D989E9D1@darknet.net> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 01:44:08 -0400 From: Steve Organization: DarkNet Online/Digital Fusion X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Strong Magnets Available References: <71a93786.35c7caa6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1zDKD.0.rt3.sKfor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5568 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Put them in your oil pan or on your oil filter, they will catch lots of iron filings and make your engine list MUCH longer. (325,000 miles on my VW engine years ago). Hi Richard, Thanks! I'll have to try that when I get a car! ;) ttyl -Steve -- darklord@darknet.net | UIN: 5113616 DarkNet Online: http://www.darknet.net Digital Fusion: http://www.darknet.net/fusion From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 6 23:19:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA22029; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 23:18:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 23:18:19 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OT: Sleep Paralysis Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 06:18:54 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35cf9aec.322599528@mail-hub> References: <19980806182619.1003.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> In-Reply-To: <19980806182619.1003.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PG9zS3.0.6O5.gmfor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5569 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:26:19 -0700 (PDT), Anton Rager wrote: [snip] >> Anton - could you describe your paralysis dream(s) in detail to me? >Could >> you >> tell me what country you live in? > >Haven't had a paralysis dream in a while -- seem to remember that it >normally involves some crisis, and I can't move out of the way of >harm. Also seem to remember one where someone was in trouble, but I >was unable to move to help them. Details beyond that become sketchy. [snip] I have come to understand my own "paralysis" dreams as follows: When asleep, there is a change that takes place in the motor functions akin to deadening of the nerves, precisely so that we don't do anything physically that might injure us while we sleep. This coupled with the fact that we are often physically restrained by our bedding to some degree, translates into an inability to move physically in our dreams (iow our subconscious is trying to tell us that we really are "paralysed", so don't bother trying to do anything). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 7 01:17:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA06949; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 01:16:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 01:16:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980807174533.0080c1b0@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 17:45:33 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: COOLING DEVICE In-Reply-To: <009501bdc12d$6034bd00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"khQyN2.0.Ui1.TVhor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5570 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:28 PM 8/6/98 +0100, you wrote: >Patrick > >I have found the thermionic cooling device article and will soon >scan and OCR it. Would you like a copy? > >Best regards > >David Callaghan >DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk >could you also send me a copy as well Thanks Geoff >-----Original Message----- >From: Patrick Tremblay > > >>How could we build a SOLID STATE cooling apparaturs that would employ >>coils and/or resistors and/or capacitors to extract heat from a room, >>convert it in electricity and then conduct it via electric wires and >>then reject it with resistors loads or store it in a battery ? > > > > Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 7 03:36:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA30336; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 03:28:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 03:28:55 -0700 Message-ID: <35CAD62A.65D2F258@harti.com> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 12:25:47 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list , Greg Watson Subject: Refund shipped ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R1Lnu3.0.uP7.cRjor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5571 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, did anybody already get the refund or a SMOT from Greg Watson ? At my place it did not come in. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 7 03:36:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA32148; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 03:35:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 03:35:57 -0700 Message-ID: <007001bdc1ef$30f5c6c0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: OT: Sleep Paralysis Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:26:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"IBn33.0.9s7.DYjor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5572 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin During REM sleep a special section of the brain 'fires up' and actually disables voluntary motor functions. -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk >This coupled with the fact that we are often physically restrained by >our bedding to some degree, translates into an inability to move >physically in our dreams (iow our subconscious is trying to tell us >that we really are "paralysed", so don't bother trying to do anything). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 7 03:46:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA04053; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 03:45:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 03:45:43 -0700 Sender: mthomas@estsa2.estec.esa.nl Message-ID: <35CADADD.E5099D23@astro.estec.esa.nl> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 12:45:50 +0200 From: Mark Thomas Organization: ESTEC/CARA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.17 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: leoguitar@vossnet.de, freenrg-l Subject: Re: Refund shipped ? References: <35CAD62A.65D2F258@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JR2MM2.0.F_.Nhjor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5573 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan, No I have not yet received any refund from Greg Watson! I have again asked him when he intends to send the refunds, but as usual there is no response from him. Greg Watson's actions are very dubious, and I strongly suggest that he returns all monies immediately. I suspect he has put the money into one of those high interest bank accounts, or similar, and is making money for nothing. Regards Mark Thomas Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Hi, > > did anybody already get the refund or a SMOT from Greg Watson ? > At my place it did not come in. > > Regards, Stefan. > > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann > Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com > Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 7 07:59:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27387; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 07:57:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 07:57:18 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980807145702.006dec58@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 10:57:02 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: OT: Sleep Paralysis Resent-Message-ID: <"auxGg.0.lh6.ENnor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5574 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I had an experience years ago that has baffled me ever since.I was camping in the woods when I was awakened by a bright light in my tent and a strange whine like a jet but not a jet.My tent was backed up into a hill so there could be no light coming from that direction.I tried looking out the back window but the flap was down.The strange part was that I had a horrible internal battle with myself to either go out and investigate or go back to sleep.Since I had always been interested in UFOs I found this strange even as I was trying to get up but couldn't and move to the door.I felt I couldn't move anymore and I soon went to sleep.I love adventure sports so fear paralysis is not in my nature.I give no explanation for this occurrence but relate it as it happened. Perhaps this line should be moved over to the Weird Science list if it is still active. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 7 09:38:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20423; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 09:37:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 09:37:08 -0700 Message-ID: <35CB2C20.764885F7@darknet.net> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 12:32:32 -0400 From: Steve Organization: DarkNet Online/Digital Fusion X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Freenrg-l , Vortex Subject: "Centrifugally Launched Ball Bearings Could Propel Spacecraft" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VjKUE3.0.1_4.pqoor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5575 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.pufori.org/news/nws0805983.htm ttyl -Steve -- darklord@darknet.net | UIN: 5113616 DarkNet Online: http://www.darknet.net Digital Fusion: http://www.darknet.net/fusion From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 7 15:11:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27076; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:09:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:09:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199808072209.SAA01478@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:05:16 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ACCoG.0.yc6.7itor"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5576 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: David Callaghan > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: After 5 Ph.D's I get right answer on transformer > Date: Thursday, August 06, 1998 3:11 AM > > This particular topic has caused many arguments. After all the arguments, > references from text books etc, none of us are really any closer to > understanding what REALLY causes the induced current in a coil around > a contained magnetic field. > > Relying on text books to explain everything places hard boundaries on > your thinking. The difference between a scientist and a Great Scientist is > the ability to ignore what they know when studying a problem and face the > facts presented to them objectively. It takes a strong man to go against > the flow of popular belief. > > Science is the study of nature, not of text books. Science also has the > habit of contradicting itself: what was once obviously true suddenly becomes > false.T > > My deliberate introducement of 'miles' into our conversations seemed to have > the desired effect. People questioned their belief when the distances got > big. > > I design electronic systems for a living, and only use theory as a guide. > The rift between theory and reality is sometimes remarkable. If theory was > always correct, potentiometers would only be used for volume controls :-) > > Best regards > > David Callaghan > DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk > This is a question that has engaged my thinking for some time. There is quite a significant loss involved in production of resonant coils on a large size, and also at higher frequencies. There is quite a problem with the distributed capacity which prevents predicted voltage rises from the Q factor. The best I got was 75%,if that. Again we can chaulk this up as the difference between the textbook quoted values, and the real values obtained in observation by actual experimentation. mnorris@akron.infi.net > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 8 15:35:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00101; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:32:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:32:41 -0700 Message-ID: <19980808222136.16808.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:21:36 -0700 (PDT) From: DAN BRYANT Subject: ART BELL SHOW To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"AtMJB.0.V1.98Dpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5577 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ===Hey Yall, yall auta listen to art bell, go to his website at www.artbell.comhe deals with paranormal and technological stuff last night he had folks from area51 and they talked about particle beam lasers.
F R O M DAN BRYANT m-16@rocketmail.com
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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 8 15:41:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02938; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:38:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:38:41 -0700 Message-ID: <19980808223502.27815.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:35:02 -0700 (PDT) From: DAN BRYANT Subject: Re: COOLING DEVICE To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"tVeoA.0.kj.nDDpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5578 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---GEOFF EGEL wrote: > > At 12:28 PM 8/6/98 +0100, you wrote: > >Patrick > > > > > > > > > >I have found the thermionic cooling device article and will soon > >scan and OCR it. Would you like a copy? > > > >Best regards > > > >David Callaghan > >DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk > >could you also send me a copy as well > > Thanks Geoff > > yes > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Patrick Tremblay > > > > > >>How could we build a SOLID STATE cooling apparaturs that would employ > >>coils and/or resistors and/or capacitors to extract heat from a room, > >>convert it in electricity and then conduct it via electric wires and > >>then reject it with resistors loads or store it in a battery ? > > > > > > > > > > Geoff > > http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > Solaris searching for natures energy sources. > > Geoff Egel > 18 Sturt Street > Loxton 5333 > South Australia > Australia > > Phone (08) (8584 5201) > Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time > (Monday - Saturday) > Central Australian time > others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. > > Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 01:26:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19150; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 01:23:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 01:23:14 -0700 Message-ID: <35CD5CB7.A5F99DCD@datacomm.ch> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 10:24:23 +0200 From: Felix Meyer Reply-To: hb9abx@datacomm.ch Organization: hb9abx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Grav. Converter is NOT OU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CZPlM2.0.8h4.onLpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5579 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Retransmission with corrected reference http. Analysis of Gravitational Converter ( Perpetuum Mobile) -------------------------------------------------------- Here I refer to the article about the "selfrunner" Gravitational Converter http://www.overunity.com/gb/gb.htm The mathematical analysis by W.D.Bauer, version 1.8 contains IMHO a severe error which led to the wrong conclusion that the gravitational converter is Over Unity. In section 2.2 (integral gear unit) appears the misleading assumption that the output force G2 equals the total force from G1. A detailed analysis shows that the upward force G2 is one third of the total downward force G1. See Fig.A below for details: Let's begin at point 1: The force f1 is applied to the wheel which in turn produces the upward force f at G2. At point 2 the force f2 results as counterforce from G2. Forces f1 and f2 have the same direction and add together at the axle of the wheel, and this axle is fixed to the rope between the pullys. As the wheel is a balance of equal sides: f1 = f2 or just f. The force of 2 x f pushes down the axle and lifts G1 upward through the rope with the force 2f. Now we conclude that the total force at G1 required to produce the force f at point 2 is : f1 + 2f = 3f Looking at the energy: ---------------------- The path length l1 of G1 produces a path length of l2 = 3 x l1 as correctly stated in the previously cited article. The energy is: force x path length (e = p x l) The input energy is: 3 x f x l1 and the output energy is : f x 3 x l1 (as l2 = 3 x l1) hence the output energy equals the input energy (under the assumption of zero loss through ropes and pullys) and consequently no over unity. Output/Input = 3f x l1 / 3f x l1 = 1 Applying the same calculation to the oscillating unit (Fig. 5b in above cited article) reveals, that the Phase 1 description is incorrect. If G1 weights slightly more than G2, G2 moves down and not up. Only if G1 > 3 x G2 , G2 moves up. Therefore the center of mass will never shift upwards without external energy. --- Any comments ? --- Felix Meyer (Fig.A is attached as GIF image) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 03:04:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA29270; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 03:03:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 03:03:20 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 00:02:17 -1000 To: freenrg list From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Grav. Converter is NOT OU Resent-Message-ID: <"anfO5.0.F97.dFNpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5580 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Felix - > Therefore the center of mass will never shift > upwards without external energy. > > --- Any comments ? --- That statement seems inherently obvious to me, but it's a pretty good exercise to go into the numbers and suss it out among the details. I knew there was probably something wrong with the assumptions about the integral gear unit. I might be a laydown for a fancy ZPF or antigravity idea, and I'd even play with a SMOT for a while, entertaining the dream that there just might be something hiding in mysterious magnetism that could rise up and kick off a level rollaway. But plain ol' mechanicals just don't do OU. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 07:56:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA02358; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 07:55:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 07:55:09 -0700 Message-ID: <35CDB91B.C626E7D0@vossnet.de> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 16:58:35 +0200 From: "W.D. Bauer" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hb9abx@datacomm.ch, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Critiques on gravitational converter article Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------410A846B172DC83E6B2D6211" Resent-Message-ID: <"k9dIR3.0.ma.DXRpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5581 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------410A846B172DC83E6B2D6211 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello to all! At 10:24 09.08.98 +0200, hb9abx@datacomm.ch wrote: >Retransmission with corrected reference http. > >Analysis of Gravitational Converter ( Perpetuum Mobile) >-------------------------------------------------------- >Here I refer to the article about the "selfrunner" >Gravitational Converter >http://www.overunity.com/gb/gb.htm >The mathematical analysis by W.D.Bauer, version 1.8 >contains IMHO a severe error which led to the wrong conclusion >that the gravitational converter is Over Unity. >In section 2.2 (integral gear unit) appears the misleading assumption >that the output force G2 equals the total force from G1. >A detailed analysis shows that the upward force G2 is one third >of the total downward force G1. I agree in so far that the analysis of the perpetuum mobile by me was wrong. The integral gear unit cannot give overunity but shows always energy conservation. I was criticized by others as well regarding this point and all these critiques are ok. . Therefore I looked over the problem and believe now that "moving potentials" can be the cause of overunity. Therefore, here is a new example which is derived from the "gravitational converter" , (it will be built in in the next revision of my article at http://www.overunity.com/gb/gb.htm) which is more simple and should easily to be followed . It uses a moving potential and gives overunity efficiency as well. To make understandable the problem I refer to the Gif attached: If we apply a force in the x-system the force F =D.x is the same force F'=D'.x' seen by the spring in the x' -system whose origin shifts relative to x. But the path of the spring is doubled in x' -relative to x, i.e. 2x=x'. Therefrom follows D'=D/2.The energy seen from the shifted x'-system is E'=1/2D'x'2 and x from the E=1/2Dx2 the unshifted x-system. Therefrom, because of x=x'/2 and D'=D/2 follows E'=2E, which expresses violation of energy conservation. 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30/xpFLPNaxAKUvYdizuFVAAsgkicklmaRpicZFcf/wTY+C8/wAVv2l9F1W4sPtPh/wn/wAT i9lkMqIsy5FoodBjzPO2SBGIDLDJ94Aqf0w/b3+E+m/Fn9l7xnFfP5F1oFpJ4hsbjDN5c1tG 7kbQyg74/Ni+bIXzN2CVFch/wTN+Ckvwn/ZwstW1GCCPWfF8o1p2WJBKloyKLWNpFZt67AZg Djabhl2ghiYtqaX90+taKKKszCiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKK ACiiigAooooAKKKKAP/Z --------------410A846B172DC83E6B2D6211-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 09:20:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02598; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 09:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 09:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BDC3B8.0B04BAA0@av> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Critiques on gravitational converter article Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:05:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDC3B8.0B0C5BC0" Resent-Message-ID: <"433u42.0.Se.2mSpr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5582 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC3B8.0B0C5BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Dieter, W.D. Bauer wrote: << To make understandable the problem I refer to the Gif attached: If we apply a force in the x-system the force F =3DD.x is the same force F'=3DD'.x' seen by the spring in the x' -system whose origin shifts relative to x. But the path of the spring is doubled in x' -relative to x, i.e. 2x=3Dx'. Therefrom follows D'=3DD/2.The energy seen from the = shifted x'-system is E'=3D1/2D'x'2 and x from the E=3D1/2Dx2 the unshifted x-system. Therefrom, because of x=3Dx'/2 and D'=3DD/2 follows E'=3D2E, = which expresses violation of energy conservation. >> Unfortunately, the energy stored in the spring is related to its = deflection, that is the difference of the x (or x') positions of its ends. If you analyse = this system carefully, you will find that this deflection is really independent of = the particular coordinate system you choose. Indeed, if you consider the x axis as your reference you will note that = the=20 upper end of the spring will move upwards by D/2 while the lower end = will move D/2 downwards. This gives a total deflection of D. If you consider the x' axis, the upper end of the spring will move = upwards by D, while the lower end doesn't move at all. The total deflection will again = be D. Thus, the energy stored in the spring will be the same in both cases. Best regards, Ant=F3nio Vilela ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC3B8.0B0C5BC0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhoQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAxAAAAUkU6 IENyaXRpcXVlcyBvbiBncmF2aXRhdGlvbmFsIGNvbnZlcnRlciBhcnRpY2xlADgSAQWAAwAOAAAA zgcIAAkAEQAFADEAAAAtAQEggAMADgAAAM4HCAAJABAAMgAiAAAASgEBCYABACEAAAA4QThCRUQ2 MUE2MkZEMjExQjZGNjAwMDAyMTU4MzQ2MgD9BgEDkAYAtAUAABQAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAA CwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AGCocpOvw70BHgBwAAEAAAAxAAAAUkU6IENyaXRp cXVlcyBvbiBncmF2aXRhdGlvbmFsIGNvbnZlcnRlciBhcnRpY2xlAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG9 w6+TcmHti4svphHStvYAACFYNGIAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAXAAAAdmls ZWxhQG1haWwudGVsZXBhYy5wdAAAAwAGEK+OWewDAAcQFAQAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEhFTExPRElF VEVSLFdEQkFVRVJXUk9URTo8PDxTTklQVE9NQUtFVU5ERVJTVEFOREFCTEVUSEVQUk9CTEVNSVJF RkVSVE9USEVHSUZBVFRBQ0hFRDpJRldFQVBQTFlBRk9SQ0UAAAAAAgEJEAEAAAAJBAAABQQAADQH AABMWkZ1euZH2f8ACgEPAhUCpAPkBesCgwBQEwNUAgBjaArAc2V07jIGAAbDAoMyA8YHEwKDxjMD xQIAcHJxEiATiPo0Ew19CoAIzwnZAoAKgdMNsQtgbmcB0DcN8AsKQxQiAdAgSGVsFyAg6kQIkHQE kCwKhQqPGkiAVy5ELiBCYQpQLQXAdwNgG3A6C0oxNjscQB6SYwVAHCcaGzw8yRwlPHMDAHA+G74L ZDcVsgwBH9ZUGyAAwGtl6CB1bgSBcwGQJYABoHJsJVB0aCVQH9EmIW2oIEkgF5BmHlF0GyDlJmJH BpAgYQJAANAmcFRkOhwlSSgwdyVQYSpwC1B5KEAgAhByY4clUAuAJlN4LXN5JcBHJvEmYio0RiA9 HfB45yqABCAmYnNhB4AqJBwl1EYnLFAnLHAnLQAJ4bwgYinwLNMUwAuAZyqHoy6QKxZ3aG8R8CAF sCRpZyqRc2gGkHRzxxwlF5ALYHRpdiZBGyC6eB4BdQVAJmMoUGgxULcoMC86BCBkCGAmIWQqgicw UjKpHCV4LCqALmWxHgAyeD0ugB4AVCZw7ydBA2EqIRsBdwQgLlAsUGgvMi44cSAJ8ASQZ38p8C6z OMMs0zHiCYA3FifrKxYsoUUuMDE50C5QLoBfEiAoQCWAKvA6+EU9Y3h/EiAmYiVwO50rFThZN5Bi /wWQHjAxMigwKvA4ITnQPgNnOZQ5Bz1BMkU3kDEAafMRsBwlZXgUwAeQEfAEIPx2aQbwMtECIEKT OkUFoGsAgASQdkaTLhwvGkg+6SKdVW4qMXQlcChQGvD+eTeQJmI6RiegF5EqhjTY9zKjNcEnoWky EDVgGQEgEb9GsUvyKFAskUh1JmJkBpDfJ2EJ8CphNGUsgCgFsS6A/ikmkDEgTvBGsQQgNGFO8tkJ 8GRzHgApUXkIYD4B/wdAKzAmQiyhKyRIdUJAJ0H+dRsAS+FUcgPwGwAqIAuA/06hUAJVM084TgQH QCnhV6H8ZXBT4QnwBUA0ZUihMuDuY1agCsBV5m8FsFEQS5L/VXVUYxGwXCAR8EhmKOYlgW8JgDeR VFRHomkEgVHlYfp4LKFhBCBUcTKCUUZXB95uHqFX1iVQSHV1KcAeUb9T4TRdV0MEYDMBY/B3CxH/ BCAvAUPCRPEmNTlBZCVld+dIdUPCNXB3bmYzOFIsof8xkDMAYNEnkQGQAyBYiTRh/x3wKOhffy6B YKJL9GP/ZQ8/ZhobpmcPPiE1cAeQbid/BUBws1ARWYE4U2r/VzRh/mcLcUIRbDhIdThwQmBL//9N D1dDdtEs13aiHqA0QEJA+0YRXd1CB5AFQBeQdoBmUeUbpkECMFwnFBADABsgXlZyYQtgSHUWsQCA MAAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwQMz2ca3DvQFAAAgwQMz2ca3DvQEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABS RTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAA87E= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC3B8.0B0C5BC0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 09:45:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24177; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 09:44:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 09:44:31 -0700 Message-ID: <35CDD29C.1E2C6C1C@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 09:47:24 -0700 From: Edward Borley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: COOLING DEVICE References: <19980808223502.27815.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tPHyZ.0.hv5.k7Tpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5583 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: DAN BRYANT wrote: > ---GEOFF EGEL wrote: > > > > At 12:28 PM 8/6/98 +0100, you wrote: > > >Patrick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I have found the thermionic cooling device article and will soon > > >scan and OCR it. Would you like a copy? > > > > > >Best regards > > > > > >David Callaghan > > >DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk > > >could you also send me a copy as well > > > > Thanks Geoff > > > Could you e-mail me a copy as well? Thank you. > > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 10:15:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA30704; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:14:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:14:36 -0700 Message-ID: <35CDD8D6.609C65B9@datacomm.ch> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 19:13:58 +0200 From: Felix Meyer Reply-To: hb9abx@datacomm.ch Organization: hb9abx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Critiques on gravitational converter article References: <35CDB91B.C626E7D0@vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZJMBG1.0.aV7.xZTpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5584 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: W.D. Bauer wrote: > > Hello to all! > ... > >Analysis of Gravitational Converter ( Perpetuum Mobile) > >-------------------------------------------------------- > >Here I refer to the article about the "selfrunner" > >Gravitational Converter > >http://www.overunity.com/gb/gb.htm > ... snip > Therefore, here is a new example which is derived from the > "gravitational converter" , (it will be built in in the next revision of > my article at http://www.overunity.com/gb/gb.htm) which is more simple > and should easily to be followed . It uses a moving potential and gives > overunity efficiency as well. > To make understandable the problem I refer to the Gif attached: > If we apply a force in the x-system the force F =D.x is the same force > F'=D'.x' seen by the spring in the x' -system whose origin shifts > relative to x. But the path of the spring is doubled in x' -relative to > x, i.e. 2x=x'. Therefrom follows D'=D/2.The energy seen from the shifted > x'-system is E'=1/2D'x'2 and x from the E=1/2Dx2 the unshifted > x-system. Therefrom, because of x=x'/2 and D'=D/2 follows E'=2E, which > expresses violation of energy conservation. > ... SORRY, HERE IS AGAIN AN ERROR ... The force F is TWICE the force F'. This is exactly due to the "shifted reference system". If the force on the rope throuh one pully is seen from the "ground" it is the same force. In your case you hang the spring back the the entry point of F, and as you draw in your picture you get the spring force F' twice to the blue block. Two red forces: 2.F'=F You see it ? Sorry again no OU. Felix F.Meyer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 11:33:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13449; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 11:31:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 11:31:45 -0700 Message-ID: <35CDEBE9.183A3F00@vossnet.de> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 20:35:21 +0200 From: "W.D. Bauer" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Critiques on gravitational converter article Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sb_le3.0.3I3.GiUpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5585 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 17:05 09.08.98 +0100, A. Vilela at freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >Hello Dieter, > >W.D. Bauer wrote: ><< > > >To make understandable the problem I refer to the Gif attached: >If we apply a force in the x-system the force F =D.x is the same force >F'=D'.x' seen by the spring in the x' -system whose origin shifts >relative to x. But the path of the spring is doubled in x' -relative to >x, i.e. 2x=x'. Therefrom follows D'=D/2.The energy seen from the shifted >x'-system is E'=1/2D'x'2 and x from the E=1/2Dx2 the unshifted >x-system. Therefrom, because of x=x'/2 and D'=D/2 follows E'=2E, which >expresses violation of energy conservation. >>> > >Unfortunately, the energy stored in the spring is related to its deflection, that is >the difference of the x (or x') positions of its ends. If you analyse this system >carefully, you will find that this deflection is really independent of the particular >coordinate system you choose. If you have moving springs in space you have moving potential seen in the x space. If you look at the problem from the x'-system the problem is dependent from the deflection delta x' denoted x' in my last message, which corresponds to D in your message. >Indeed, if you consider the x axis as your reference you will note that the >upper end of the spring will move upwards by D/2 while the lower end will move >D/2 downwards. This gives a total deflection of D. >If you consider the x' axis, the upper end of the spring will move upwards by D, >while the lower end doesn't move at all. The total deflection will again be D. Sorry, you did not understand the point of my message: If you pull at the blue block fastened to the ropes (using D:=spring constant, x:= delta x=deflection of the spring, force=F=D.x ) You need the energy input : E= Integral D.x dx = 1/2 .D. x^2 because F=D.x You get the energy stored in the spring: E'= Integral D'.x' dx' = 1/2 .D. x'^2 which is E'=D.x^2 (violation of energy conservation!) because of the relations F'=F i.e. D'x'=D.x and x=x'/2 (and therefore D=2D'). This shows: the work input by pulling the blue block is half than the work output stored up at the spring. Another problem, I cannot read your Pics ! What is the format ? Sincerly Dieter Bauer P.S.: private opinion From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 12:01:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21411; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 12:00:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 12:00:11 -0700 Delivered-To: fixup-freenrg-l@eskimo.com@fixme From: "Pat42" To: Subject: Springwalker Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 11:58:37 -0700 Message-ID: <01bdc3c7$b772bc60$58aae1cf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDC38D.0B13E460" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"yGKDI3.0.TE5.w6Vpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5586 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDC38D.0B13E460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I remember reading a popular science advertisement about a mechanical = device that allowed the wearer to run 30mph and jump over houses. = Anybody know the patent number? Thanks, Patrick Robbins Pat42@uswest.net ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDC38D.0B13E460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I remember reading a popular science = advertisement about a mechanical device that allowed the wearer to run = 30mph and=20 jump over houses.  Anybody know the patent number?
 
Thanks,
 
Patrick Robbins
Pat42@uswest.net
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDC38D.0B13E460-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 12:30:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28198; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 12:29:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 12:29:12 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDC3D4.622F6C00@av> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Critiques on gravitational converter article Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:29:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDC3D4.622F6C00" Resent-Message-ID: <"hgy6V2.0.Wu6.7YVpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5587 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC3D4.622F6C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dieter, W.D. Bauer wrote: << If you pull at the blue block fastened to the ropes (using D:=3Dspring constant, x:=3D delta x=3Ddeflection of the spring, force=3DF=3DD.x ) You need the energy input : E=3D Integral D.x dx = =3D 1/2 .D. x^2 because F=3DD.x You get the energy stored in the spring: E'=3D Integral D'.x' dx' = =3D 1/2 .D. x'^2 which is E'=3DD.x^2 (violation of energy conservation!) because of the relations F'=3DF i.e. D'x'=3DD.x and x=3Dx'/2 (and therefore D=3D2D'). This shows: the work input by pulling the blue block is half than the work output stored up at the spring. >> Yes you were right, I wasn't quite seeing your point. I thought about it for a while and now I see. Your mistake seems to be in assuming=20 that F'=3DF, which is not quite true. The force across the spring (F') = is only half the applied force F. The other half is applied on the left = part of the rope. In a system like this one, in each branch of the rope you have half the force and twice the displacement. Please review your calculations taking this into account and then let us know what you find. << Another problem, I cannot read your Pics ! What is the format ? >> ? Well, I haven't sent any picture :-) Best regards, Ant=F3nio Vilela ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC3D4.622F6C00 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhITAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAxAAAAUkU6 IENyaXRpcXVlcyBvbiBncmF2aXRhdGlvbmFsIGNvbnZlcnRlciBhcnRpY2xlADgSAQWAAwAOAAAA zgcIAAkAFAAdAAwAAAAjAQEggAMADgAAAM4HCAAJABMAJgAjAAAAQgEBCYABACEAAAA4RThCRUQ2 MUE2MkZEMjExQjZGNjAwMDAyMTU4MzQ2MgABBwEDkAYAEAYAABQAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAA CwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5ACAnHP3Lw70BHgBwAAEAAAAxAAAAUkU6IENyaXRp cXVlcyBvbiBncmF2aXRhdGlvbmFsIGNvbnZlcnRlciBhcnRpY2xlAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG9 w8v9HGHti48vphHStvYAACFYNGIAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAXAAAAdmls ZWxhQG1haWwudGVsZXBhYy5wdAAAAwAGEAhBk8EDAAcQmwMAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAERJRVRFUixX REJBVUVSV1JPVEU6PDw8U05JUElGWU9VUFVMTEFUVEhFQkxVRUJMT0NLRkFTVEVORURUT1RIRVJP UEVTKFVTSU5HRDo9U1BSSU5HQ09OU1RBTlQsWDo9REVMVEEAAAAAAgEJEAEAAABoBAAAZAQAALwH AABMWkZ1ze9L/P8ACgEPAhUCpAPkBesCgwBQEwNUAgBjaArAc2V07jIGAAbDAoMyA8YHEwKDxjMD xQIAcHJxEiATiIY0FDwGsHN0ZW0Cg/o1Ew19CoAIzwnZAoAKgdMNsQtgbmcB0DcN8AsDIGxpMTQ0 AtFpLT8bwwzQG8MLVRQiAdAgRPMIkBbQciwKhQqHC2QXUisMARTAbxbQYwVAVy5gRC4gQmEKUAXA d+UgMjoLSjE2IBcKjx1IKSMlPDwk1nMDAHA+Qx7PH9tJZiB5CGAgKHB1bAMgYQVAdGgMZSAKMikx b2NrILRmYRbBbgmAKPBvKPPlA2BwB5EodQCQGuAd0Pg6PXMUwCuBIyUFoACAowGQAjAsIHgr0CAN sLZsAZAtUD0akiBhaQIgfCBvKCApAiv0LUACEHIgY2U9Rj0gwHgg+ikeXFkoUSpAKlIpESoxcHJn eSALgCiABUA6ViAzLzOURS2ASQIwZb8JwAdAHdAwUS2QMGA9IyVMMS8SICCyeF4SIGK3BZAhABHw IDAjMQlnEgB/MfoWwAWwKlELgC75MxRF1ictgDTJJzBQJzWSPFCNNe8nNvAjJXdoaRGwfTKgcyMl OzEwQTbxK0B2vy6QC2AuhjJFLMIEkHZAU34hMI03Ji7VGTBARAQgRsU7QEYzkWkuZSDQM5HvPBA8 QDAzKMBuKmAuADxA/TZxKEYxIyUpARkwL8EpIEhEPTI8ECkuHlxUAz6ABCBzaG93czrfRyghQAWw KdAytGIykCiC7yuCKQ1JoRHAbC7iA5FKp50IYHQy0SMlOZV1cCjGZyv0SJYmrCA+Ji4kbFkbB5Eo QndHsSrgaWdoTS0xSSFAKgBuJwVAcfx1aRbQLzAJ4CuCKEEFwPRwbwuAdCDQVXApAAhg/1UhKMAG 4E7XViAvsijAPmL7LlBGI25J8FVhVmEg0DFxrQXAbQQAAZBrVkNtBCDPKoE3IDnyKgBzdVsgK5F/ Ryco0USiLUA+dloRVeZ0/nIKUCDQSYApIC/DKMAFAN5vBBEvCCtARKApPsgCIO5sMpBNZVnBcAtQ CJAqYP1gFEZftCBAR6FNVEmhY1b/LqEpAi5QAYAocArATuZDlr8rAVdxXHEvMBazZmBpW3G3KQBJ oQIgZS1AOgFlAND1PrBiNSBuPqFneSgyIyW9EcB2KSBix2AVRkF0A/D7YEEpAmQEAAtRL/AHgFdR /SMlUC5QKgBD4kAQB9FW0/k3QGxjKJBENVtRTARJoe9XQSqQANAFoHUCMG10KRDPA6AuUE7mK2Ag a1oiPnD/KNEoQhwQRkBInSTeJq8gRP5BXtFkwiAhAmAW4FVSN0C2bl7SGTBhKmBW01A+kP0EICEg kF2iSaFs5QDABUD+P1JvUfwjJXz4I78gkC2w/mxVUmxCVcIR8HMDS6E+kKZ0CHApIDotMI1CB5A1 epJnCxFzHkZ5EHRc7icUEAMAKpBWWaELYAtGLxLyH/l/dRhRAIiwAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAA BzBg4vPqxMO9AUAACDBg4vPqxMO9AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AAB81Q== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC3D4.622F6C00-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 15:48:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05732; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 15:46:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 15:46:35 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Springwalker Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 22:47:15 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35ce26db.144853961@mail-hub> References: <01bdc3c7$b772bc60$58aae1cf@default> In-Reply-To: <01bdc3c7$b772bc60$58aae1cf@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xYsZ2.0.LP1.ARYpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5588 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998 11:58:37 -0700, Pat42 wrote: >I remember reading a popular science advertisement about a mechanical device that allowed the wearer to run 30mph and jump over houses. Anybody know the patent number? > >Thanks, > >Patrick Robbins >Pat42@uswest.net Why, do you have a death wish? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 16:10:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12166; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:08:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:08:54 -0700 Message-ID: <35CE2888.C19@microtec.net> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 18:54:00 -0400 From: Patrick Tremblay Reply-To: energeon@microtec.net Organization: Energeon X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Springwalker References: <01bdc3c7$b772bc60$58aae1cf@default> <35ce26db.144853961@mail-hub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Hn1i6.0._z2.6mYpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5589 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HI ALL, GO AT www.springwalker.com I AM SO EXCITED I THINK I WILL BUY ONE. THANKS, -- Energeon, 7515 Jodelle, Laval West (quebec), Canada, H7R-5L5, FAX: 1-514-686-6083 PHONE: 1-514-962-1678 Patrick Tremblay energeon@microtec.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 16:52:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21906; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:51:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:51:16 -0700 Message-ID: <35CE36D1.C9BFB28E@vossnet.de> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 01:54:57 +0200 From: "W.D. Bauer" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DDk-Z.0.BM5.pNZpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5590 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello ! In the meantime I do not believe in my messages on the perpetuum mobile spring-rope system The main mistake is the assumption that F'=F. True is probable F/2=F' . Then energy conservation is ok. . Sorry for the shit ! I am quite bad in mechanics ! Sincerly Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 16:52:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22425; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:51:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:51:47 -0700 Message-ID: <35CE36F1.6F1FD15C@vossnet.de> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 01:55:29 +0200 From: "W.D. Bauer" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Critiques on gravitational converter article Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"77-Ql1.0.zT5.IOZpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5591 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello ! In the meantime I do not believe in my messages on the perpetuum mobile spring-rope system The main mistake is the assumption that F'=F. True is probable F/2=F' . Then energy conservation is ok. . Sorry for the shit ! I am quite bad in mechanics ! Sincerly Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 18:16:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12754; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 18:14:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 18:14:24 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35ce26db.144853961@mail-hub> References: <01bdc3c7$b772bc60$58aae1cf@default> <01bdc3c7$b772bc60$58aae1cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 15:12:41 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Springwalker Resent-Message-ID: <"zYALL3.0.w63.lbapr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5592 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >On Sun, 9 Aug 1998 11:58:37 -0700, Pat42 wrote: > >>I remember reading a popular science advertisement about a mechanical >>device that allowed the wearer to run 30mph and jump over houses. >>Anybody know the patent number? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Patrick Robbins >>Pat42@uswest.net >Why, do you have a death wish? >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk Robin - Extending the locomotive capabilities of the human machine in novel ways has been an interest of mine for years. A *properly* designed "springwalker" with appropriate safety cage/armor would be a fantastic recreational device, and might just be practical as such. The original springwalker as I remember it was just a first hack at this, and was neither practical or safe. But it could be with some engineering. Re-engineering the human animal for locomotion has huge areas of unexplored potential. With a light, properly sprung and safety caged 'exoskeleton', you could: * swim like a dolphin * run like a horse * fly like a bird The closest we've come to any of these goals is #2, the horse. My personal favorite is the bird, but despite all the advances in hang gliders and MPA's, an effective ornithopter has yet to be designed. The exquisite refinements in bicycles (wheeled mechanical 'horses') over the years makes them perhaps *the* most efficient animal locomotion system anywhere in *nature*. Derivatives which allow high jumps and all-terrain locomotion as sport gizmos are all the rage, and involve high spring levels. A non-wheeled version could never be as efficient, but could involve capabilities hardly dreamed of now. Think springboks, for instance. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 18:25:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18026; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 18:22:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 18:22:46 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Springwalker Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 01:23:23 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35d24b20.154142004@mail-hub> References: <01bdc3c7$b772bc60$58aae1cf@default> <01bdc3c7$b772bc60$58aae1cf@default> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ifccy3.0.aP4.bjapr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5593 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998 15:12:41 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: [snip] >Robin - > >Extending the locomotive capabilities of the human machine in novel ways >has been an interest of mine for years. A *properly* designed >"springwalker" with appropriate safety cage/armor would be a fantastic >recreational device, and might just be practical as such. The original >springwalker as I remember it was just a first hack at this, and was >neither practical or safe. But it could be with some engineering. [snip] My comment was intended to highlight this aspect. I see that I have succeeded. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 19:09:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA31918; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:05:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:05:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: sh.diac.com: ekwall2 owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:02:53 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Springwalker In-Reply-To: <01bdc3c7$b772bc60$58aae1cf@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDC38D.0B13E460" Content-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"HRBsJ.0.Zo7.eLbpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5594 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDC38D.0B13E460 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=iso-8859-1 Content-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Pat42 wrote: Hi Pat42, Please NOTE: You have your e-mail OUTput or Editor set to something that is not readable in plain ascii format... I get "cannot display this part" save and view under latin 101 (whatever that is????) ... was your question important? If I knew ahead of time, I would save retranslate to your output configureation, but with all the hundreds of e-mails out there, I usually just delete and go to the next one... You might have the golden 'question or Answer' that we are ALL looking for, but when it can't be read by anyone except YOUR Type of computer and your type of format/font/header clutter etc.. it cannot be seen by ALL! Hope you can fix your output for your system so we can All See what you typed / drew / passed on. -=se=- steve (just a suggestion for everyone) ekwall. ekwall2@diac.com ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDC38D.0B13E460 Content-Type: TEXT/HTML; CHARSET=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-ID: Content-Description:
I remember reading a popular science = advertisement about a mechanical device that allowed the wearer to run = 30mph and=20 jump over houses.  Anybody know the patent number?
 
Thanks,
 
Patrick Robbins
Pat42@uswest.net
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDC38D.0B13E460-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 21:49:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06986; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:48:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:48:28 -0700 Message-ID: <007a01bdc41a$47a48500$75298e8b@plassy> From: "Plasmatic" To: Subject: Re: COOLING DEVICE Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:49:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"riubS.0.2j1.Rkdpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5595 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, I would love to get a copy of the cooling device. Thanks for offering :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 22:42:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA23796; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:41:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:41:44 -0700 Message-ID: <003a01bdc421$984a1a40$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Cooling Device Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 06:41:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Jr7wg1.0.kp5.NWepr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5596 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Looks like more people want this! -----Original Message----- From: David Callaghan >I had offered to send some people the article on the thermionic >cooling device I had mentioned. > >The exact same article can be found at: > >http://www.newscientist.com/ns/980124/features1.html > >Someone had already given the site name of the company >featured previously on the list. > >Best regards > >David Callaghan >DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 22:46:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA26707; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:45:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:45:47 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cooling Device Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 05:46:26 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35ce890e.8294886@mail-hub> References: <003a01bdc421$984a1a40$96d2989e@david-callaghan> In-Reply-To: <003a01bdc421$984a1a40$96d2989e@david-callaghan> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lu1mu1.0.CX6.Aaepr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5597 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 10 Aug 1998 06:41:31 +0100, David Callaghan wrote: [snip] >>Someone had already given the site name of the company >>featured previously on the list. [snip] Here it is again: http://www.borealis.com/ Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 9 22:49:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA28349; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:48:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:48:48 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cooling Device Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 05:49:28 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35d089c0.8472828@mail-hub> References: <003a01bdc421$984a1a40$96d2989e@david-callaghan> <35ce890e.8294886@mail-hub> In-Reply-To: <35ce890e.8294886@mail-hub> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"j6glv.0.kw6._cepr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5598 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 10 Aug 1998 05:46:26 GMT, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: [snip] >Here it is again: > >http://www.borealis.com/ or more accurately: http://www.borealis.com/additional/press/refrigeration/presspack.htm Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 10 09:41:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07702; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:40:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:40:03 -0700 Message-ID: <19980810164041.1157.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:40:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: "Centrifugally Launched Ball Bearings Could Propel Spacecraft" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"Srfr22.0.Fu1.Z9opr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5599 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Looks like the news made it to siencedaily.com as well: see-- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/08/980807105147.htm Hard to imagine slinging ball bearings 10km! Definately a restricted flying area ;) ---Steve wrote: > > http://www.pufori.org/news/nws0805983.htm > > ttyl > -Steve > -- > darklord@darknet.net | UIN: 5113616 > DarkNet Online: http://www.darknet.net > Digital Fusion: http://www.darknet.net/fusion > > == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 10 12:25:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26528; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:23:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:23:49 -0700 Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:22:49 +0200 Message-Id: <199808111922.VAA20610@cache.hb.vossnet.de> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: RE: Critiques on gravitational converter article Resent-Message-ID: <"qmSUq.0.OU6.5Zqpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5600 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello ! In the meantime I do not believe in my messages on the perpetuum mobile spring-rope system The main mistake is the assumption that F'=F. True is probable F/2=F' . Then energy conservation is ok. . Sorry for the shit ! I am quite bad in mechanics ! Sincerly Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 10 14:28:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19753; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:25:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:25:02 -0700 Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 23:23:55 +0200 Message-Id: <199808112123.XAA28099@cache.hb.vossnet.de> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_902816915==_" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) X-Attachments: C:\EUDORA\ATTACHED\ZUG.GIF; Resent-Message-ID: <"Ns-8g.0.Wq4.jKspr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5601 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_902816915==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello to all ! I made now a complete force diagram sceme of the gravitational converter. It shows energy conservation. The mistake of the inventor was that he overlooked that the force to draw down the apparatus is not the same applied to the rope as can be followed in the sceme attached. The article at "www.overunity.de/gb/index.htm" will be changed in this sense as well soon ! Sincerely Dieter Bauer --=====================_902816915==_ Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="ZUG.GIF"; x-mac-type="42494E41"; x-mac-creator="6D646F73" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ZUG.GIF" R0lGODdhEwEGArMAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgMDAwP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A/wD/ /////ywAAAAAEwEGAgME//DJSau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oqq5s675wLM8UYNkVXt983u++IHA40RV/ R2GSKDHSnlCR8zGtIptXataqxHa1Xy4TPI6azxfxcu0dq9tscvwth9vreDp6j6b7t4BhgW6Dc4V8 iGZ/goyEjYaPd4uOiZVQk5CUmZuSh3meepaiLZidkZ+npaiapmWjrymqsqC0qbWssLkns7a9uLy/ nrrDUrecq8fAycZ3xM4eyq3LvtPB1M/YHNHI0t3c39uq2ePM4OXh5+Xk697o1+bv7uzz7enx9tb5 9Ozy1f71997ty9YPoD6D/+C5GuisoMKEDh0yfBYRH0SLCCdiqxjw4MOM3/80EuPokeTFUyKHmQS5 8qPLlLpaysTocgrMXDM7sgHA00jOhTdF/TzppifRo0Fx0hzapCfPmjSTjsLhtKrVq1izat3KtavX r2DDdpVKVlHVsmjTqrCqtq3bEGzfyp2b5izdu3Tj4t3bVi/fv2T9Ah4MUzDhwwwNI17Mzy7jx42d Qp5MTjHly68sY96cSDPnz2c8gx5NQzTp0y9Mo149QqxR1rA/vM7hmLbN2LFn15Ws4Snu3L43qNb9 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r0G7B/67Bfyy5O0ur6tFoE3bTX3bXOzQaVvSKqbeK73hVEThO0vOC47h2J1nDY5fHq5sDbZ2Jx69 sD0KCBZ1K87iWO2LSk0fJW7iJ02Tg5LeYCQSD86fLW6aPq7jeRLkN/LjQC5sVk1SM/4XXY1a1EW/ YhTfzDnlLW3ld1HlWL7lXN7lXv7lYE5rQRXmAH6eTgIdXkHmHuDIoWZFPgdFF8Dbas7cq5uzkw1o NTnnXDTYxN3G1svnep7DIO4Kfx7oRpTXJOLYoU3ahp63NVTog97l/f0EbC7hjd6qpvEVdd3Jet7N paHocX5M6S9cMWuW16LeYqbuAo0GeKe+yKCbrnXd6khGRBm26LLuxriK57eOaDeUZLa+6zybwLYB sMDe2zunIvT9ZQ9A38Xuf81OU88e7RQQAQA7 --=====================_902816915==_-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 10 22:23:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA05710; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:22:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:22:20 -0700 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808110523.WAA11738@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: transformer induction Resent-Message-ID: <"O5a5D3.0.2P1.BKzpr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5602 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have done some experiments to study the effects of different transformer configurations. In particular, the secondary can have an induced voltage as long as the magnetic flux flows somewhere through its turns. 1. Electrical shielding. I used a large "EI" core that had a large window for windings. For the secondary. I used 8 turns of 50 Ohm coaxial cable. I found: Unloaded secondary voltage = 4.98 Volts. This was both the central conductor and the shield. For a load I used a 0.33 Ohm resistor. Load on shield: shield voltage = 4.51 Volts. central conductor = 4.93 Volts Load on central conductor: voltage = 4.00 Volts. shield voltage = 4.93 Volts. Conclusion: electrical shielding isn't effective. 2. Spacing. For these experiments, I used a rectangular core 7/8 inches (2.2cm) square cross section. The magnetic length between the 2 ends was 3.37 inches (8.6cm) The primary was wound on one end. On the other were 2 secondaries, each 33 turns. One was wound on the core with No. 25 AWG wire (0.5mm). The other was a loop, like a Helmholtz coil, 8.6 cm diameter. This was wound with No. 21 wire to have the same resistance, 0.4 Ohms as the first sec. This secondary was free to move around the core. The secondary voltages were: Close wound: 4.04 Volts no load, 3.84 Volta at 0.5 Amps. Helmholtz: 4.08 Volts no load, 3.88 Volts at 0.5 Amps. The Helmholtz coil voltage increased to 4.15 Volts when moved over the primary. This gives an idea of the amount of leakage flux. The 0.04 increase I guess is due to the additional leakage flux through the larger area coil. The grid supply voltage did not shift 1% during these tests. Apparently any leakage inductance for the larger secondary isn't significant. 3. Magnetic shielding. The Helmholtz secondary was modified by winding over it, toroidal style 1 mm diameter annealed iron wire. It now looks like a toroid coil, except now the "core" is the 33 turn copper windings and the "windings" are now the magnetic material. The 2 secondaries were compared: Close wound: 4.00 Volts no load, 3.79 Volts at 0.5 Amps. Shielded: 4.04 Volt no load, 3.67 Volts at 0.5 Amp load. The primary current increased about the same amount with this load on each secondary. That is secondary current in both cases affected the primary current. Because the primary is low voltage, 24 Volts, its magnetization current is much larger than the increase, so I don't have accurate measurements. Primary magnetization (no load current) 0.3 Amps Primary current with either sec load: 0.33 Amps. However, the no load voltages do not appear to be affected by the magnetic shield. As a final test to show reciprocal effects, I used both secondaries as a 1:1 transformer (each 33 turns). 33 turn close wound = 3 volts primary: Shielded secondary = 2.72 Volts. Why this is 10% less? Shielded sec. = 3 Volt primary: Close wound secondary = 1.75 Volts. Position of the shielded sec. has very little effect. This is at least the direction predicted: Primary current to core flux: magnetic Core flux to secondary voltage: another means ("A" field?) Am thinking of further tests to compare these last 2 tests. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 11 10:40:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01847; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:38:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:38:08 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <158a7219.35d08130@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:36:47 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Interesting question, magnet fundmental behavior Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"y_FIb.0.kS.068qr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5603 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all, If you have a cylinder shaped magnet 1/2" dia. x 1/4" thick, and it will pick up a piece of iron 1" square x 1/2" thick, that weights 1 pound, with how much force will a stack of 100 of these magnets be able to pull with on the 1" square x 1/2" thick piece of iron if it is attached to a fixed object? What I'm getting at is, when you start stacking these magnets, does the attraction force at the end of the stack, increase in proportion to the number of magnets added to the stace, i.e. 1 magnet to 100 magnets? I am interested in the "pulling" force only at the end of the roll of magnets. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 11 11:06:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09124; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:52:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:52:24 -0700 Message-ID: <003801bdc550$8725d120$f4a5d2d4@federicm> Reply-To: "Federico Marongiu" From: "Federico Marongiu" To: Subject: Is it a good mind? Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:39:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002F_01BDC55F.C272A460" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"vO5Zg3.0.PE2.NJ8qr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5604 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Messaggio a più sezioni in formato MIME. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BDC55F.C272A460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear friends, just what i guess it could be a good mind...Maybe for some of you i'm = going to discover hot water again, but... Have anyone never read the very interesting article reported by NEXUS = Magazine, Volume 4, #1 (Dec '96 - Jan 1997) about "Poltergeist Machine"? I can imagine you've heard any kind of gossips about "Philadelphia = Experiment"... and what do you think about Magtet (see the following web = page www.techline.com )? So what, really happen when a magnetic field is so strong to "saturate" = the space? Could it be able to fold time and space as a strong = gravitational field is expected to do?=20 Maybe the central point is not magnetic field intensity, but a = particular field geometry that is able to amplify field effect. It seems = like something happens under certain experimental conditions, but what = exactly happen and in which conditions? Thank's Fede =20 ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BDC55F.C272A460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear friends,
just what i guess it could be a good = mind...Maybe for some of you i'm = going to=20 discover hot water again, but...
Have anyone never read the very = interesting=20 article  reported by NEXUS Magazine, Volume 4, #1 (Dec = '96 - Jan=20 1997) about "Poltergeist Machine"?
I can imagine you've heard any kind = of gossips=20 about "Philadelphia Experiment"... and what do you think about = Magtet=20 (see the following web page www.techline.com )?
So what, really happen when a = magnetic field is=20 so strong to "saturate" the space? Could it be able to fold = time and=20 space as a strong gravitational field is expected to do?
Maybe the central point is not = magnetic field=20 intensity, but a particular field geometry that is able to amplify field = effect.=20 It seems like something happens under certain experimental conditions, = but what=20 exactly happen and in which conditions?
Thank's
Fede   =20
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BDC55F.C272A460-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 11 15:58:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10819; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:55:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <3bdceded.35d0ca4a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:48:41 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: transformer induction Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"gD96Y3.0.te2.7lCqr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5605 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 8/10/98 10:25:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: << 2. Spacing. For these experiments, I used a rectangular core 7/8 inches (2.2cm) square cross section. The magnetic length between the 2 ends was 3.37 inches (8.6cm) The primary was wound on one end. On the other were 2 secondaries, each 33 turns. One was wound on the core with No. 25 AWG wire (0.5mm). The other was a loop, like a Helmholtz coil, 8.6 cm diameter. This was wound with No. 21 wire to have the same resistance, 0.4 Ohms as the first sec. This secondary was free to move around the core. The secondary voltages were: Close wound: 4.04 Volts no load, 3.84 Volta at 0.5 Amps. Helmholtz: 4.08 Volts no load, 3.88 Volts at 0.5 Amps. The Helmholtz coil voltage increased to 4.15 Volts when moved over the primary. This gives an idea of the amount of leakage flux. The 0.04 increase I guess is due to the additional leakage flux through the larger area coil. The grid supply voltage did not shift 1% during these tests. Apparently any leakage inductance for the larger secondary isn't significant. >> Hello all, First a question: what frequency did you use for these tests? Second: IF I understand the experiment you outlined above, it seems to completely disagree with the results of my experiment. This was my experiment: I used a ferrite toroid, 50 turn toroid primary. For the secondaries I used A) a 10 turn tightly wound coil and also B a 15 turn very loosely wound (helmholtz?) coil. The operating frequency was 100 kHz and I adjusted the source so I always had 1.0 volts across the primary. No load, the secondaries were A:190 mv, B:290 mv. When I placed a .5 ohm load on each secondary (individually) the voltages became A: 125 mv, B: 50 mv. So while the open circuit voltage across the loosely wound coil was predicted by the turns ratio, under load the voltage decreased significantly compared to the tightly wound coil. Then I placed the A and B coils in series OPPOSING (B in phase with primary). The voltage was 110 mv, in phase, about as expected, but with a .5 ohm resistor connected it dropped to 20 mv, in phase. Then I shorted the B-A series turns (the series, not individually), both A and B voltages were 200 mv, B in phase, A 180 degrees out of phase. Also these last two measurements with opposing coils were VERY noisey (the scope waveform), for reasons I do not quite understand --it could have something to do with the ferrite core? This points out what could be a useful fact: a low inpedance potentially high power source can be completely negated by a a very loosely coupled high impedance (and potentailly easily generated) out of phase source. But the point was, I do not think these agree with your measurements at all, and it may be worthwhile to try to decide why. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 11 16:02:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23433; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:01:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:01:01 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <57af61ee.35d0cd36@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:01:09 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Interesting question, magnet fundmental behavior Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"GkDiT2.0.2k5.jqCqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5606 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 8/11/98 10:40:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, HLafonte@aol.com writes: << f you have a cylinder shaped magnet 1/2" dia. x 1/4" thick, and it will pick up a piece of iron 1" square x 1/2" thick, that weights 1 pound, with how much force will a stack of 100 of these magnets be able to pull with on the 1" square x 1/2" thick piece of iron if it is attached to a fixed object? What I'm getting at is, when you start stacking these magnets, does the attraction force at the end of the stack, increase in proportion to the number of magnets added to the stace, i.e. 1 magnet to 100 magnets? >> This is an interesting question. I don't claim to fully understand this by any means, but the answer in general is no. You have a set B vs H curve, the same roughly for all the magnets, and the effective operating point will not change so as to give you proportionally more B as you add magnets. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 11 16:27:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA32701; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:26:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:26:13 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980811191118.0079da40@microtec.net> X-Sender: energeon@microtec.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:11:18 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Patrick Tremblay Subject: Re: Springwalker In-Reply-To: References: <01bdc3c7$b772bc60$58aae1cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Hd3II3.0.s-7.KCDqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5607 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Go at www.springwalker.com Read the page, there is a patent number. thanks, The springwalker is used a recreational and sports vehicule, I call it a "Bike With Legs". Simply instead of being seated and pedaling, you are standing and you walk. This is cool. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 11 18:51:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA30912; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:49:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:49:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199808120150.VAA30928@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: "Federico Marongiu" , Subject: Re: Is it a good mind? Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 03:13:33 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yaeVV3.0.iY7.2JFqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5608 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Federico M. ; It is a good mind that sees the actions of nature. Since I am in this boat I would tell you immediately that the human body can withstand a great deal of vibration inthe lowere am frequencies. Sincerely Yevrah. ---------- From: Federico Marongiu To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Is it a good mind? Date: Tuesday, August 11, 1998 12:39 PM Dear friends, just what i guess it could be a good mind...Maybe for some of you i'm going to discover hot water again, but... Have anyone never read the very interesting article reported by NEXUS Magazine, Volume 4, #1 (Dec '96 - Jan 1997) about "Poltergeist Machine"? I can imagine you've heard any kind of gossips about "Philadelphia Experiment"... and what do you think about Magtet (see the following web page www.techline.com )? So what, really happen when a magnetic field is so strong to "saturate" the space? Could it be able to fold time and space as a strong gravitational field is expected to do? Maybe the central point is not magnetic field intensity, but a particular field geometry that is able to amplify field effect. It seems like something happens under certain experimental conditions, but what exactly happen and in which conditions? Thank's Fede From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 11 19:18:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19009; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:17:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:17:00 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <55b09645.35d0faa1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:14:56 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Interesting question, magnet fundmental behavior Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"ze5Eq2.0.we4.RiFqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5609 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ken, Sounds right to me, thanks for the time and info. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 11 19:25:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA22209; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:24:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:24:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199808120224.WAA11518@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: High frequency exposure. Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 03:50:08 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0EN9i.0.wQ5.CpFqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5610 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Working around arcs has been demonstrated to be a relatively safe experimental situation. It is only when a high potential discharges in a vacuum that so called x rays have been observed. In the majority of all high frequency discharges this presents no danger to the human body. mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 11 21:56:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13075; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:54:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:54:52 -0700 Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808120455.VAA28558@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: transformer induction Resent-Message-ID: <"dOkOp3.0.2C3.S0Iqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5612 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken and all, At 06:48 PM 8/11/98 EDT, Ken Easy wrote: ... >Hello all, > First a question: what frequency did you use for these tests? Second: IF >I understand the experiment you outlined above, it seems to completely >disagree with the results of my experiment. This was my experiment: I used 60 Hz. I think the leakage reactances were more important with your 100KHz frequency and load resistances. For comparison I measured the short circuit currents of my 2 secondaries: Closely wound: 5.2 Amps Ring or "Helmholtz" sec. , mag. shielded 2.5 Amps. I used wire with ~2.3 X more area to compensate for the 2.3X longer length/turn, at least for resistances. I don't have the value for the unshielded ring secondary. Im my case the secondary impedances played a less amount (less % voltage drop) with a 8 Ohm (4 Volts, 0.5 Amp) load. > I used a ferrite toroid, 50 turn toroid primary. For the secondaries I >used A) a 10 turn tightly wound coil and also B a 15 turn very loosely wound >(helmholtz?) coil. The operating frequency was 100 kHz and I adjusted the >source so I always had 1.0 volts across the primary. > No load, the secondaries were A:190 mv, B:290 mv. When I placed a .5 ohm >load on each secondary (individually) the voltages became A: 125 mv, B: 50 mv. >So while the open circuit voltage across the loosely wound coil was predicted >by the turns ratio, under load the voltage decreased significantly compared to >the tightly wound coil. > Then I placed the A and B coils in series OPPOSING (B in phase with >primary). The voltage was 110 mv, in phase, about as expected, but with a .5 >ohm resistor connected it dropped to 20 mv, in phase. > Then I shorted the B-A series turns (the series, not individually), both A >and B voltages were 200 mv, B in phase, A 180 degrees out of phase. Also >these last two measurements with opposing coils were VERY noisey (the scope >waveform), for reasons I do not quite understand --it could have something to >do with the ferrite core? This points out what could be a useful fact: a low >inpedance potentially high power source can be completely negated by a a very >loosely coupled high impedance (and potentailly easily generated) out of phase >source. I think the currents are produced by the net voltage, the higher voltage determines the direction. In your case, coil B. Is this what you mean by "negate"? > But the point was, I do not think these agree with your measurements at >all, and it may be worthwhile to try to decide why. > Ken Keasy@aol.com > I did a basic circuit analysis of your circuits. Each secondary is modelled as a voltage source and a series impedance connected to the 2 wire terminals. If the primary determines the flux in the core, each secondary can be considered independent. Coil B: Open circuit voltage = 290mV, impedance 2.4 Ohms. This is significant with respect to your 0.5 Ohm load. Coil A: Open circuit voltage = (-)190 mV, impedance 0.26 Ohms. These impedances were calculated by your voltages with a 0.5 Ohm load. If the coils were connected in series, the (open circuit) voltage would be +290 mV -190mV = +100mV, and the impedance = 2.4+.0.26 = 2.66 Ohms. With a 0.5 Ohm load, then output voltage = 100mV * 0.5/(0.5+2.66) = 16mV If the series coils were short circuited, the current would be: 100mV/2.66 Ohms = 37.6 mA The voltage at coil B would be: 290mV - 37.6mA*2.4 Ohms = 200mV. The voltage at coil A would be -190 mV -37.6mA*0.26 Ohms = -200mV, for a net zero voltage. It isn't clear why this should be noisy. So the coil B is actually supplying (reactive) power to the impedance in coil A. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 11 21:56:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13031; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:54:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:54:47 -0700 Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808120455.VAA28528@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Interesting question, magnet fundmental behavior Resent-Message-ID: <"AlA1r2.0.VB3.N0Iqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5611 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Butch and all, At 01:36 PM 8/11/98 EDT, Butch wrote: >To all, >If you have a cylinder shaped magnet 1/2" dia. x 1/4" thick, and it will pick >up a piece of iron 1" square x 1/2" thick, that weights 1 pound, with how much >force will a stack of 100 of these magnets be able to pull with on the 1" >square x 1/2" thick piece of iron if it is attached to a fixed object? >What I'm getting at is, when you start stacking these magnets, does the >attraction force at the end of the stack, increase in proportion to the number >of magnets added to the stace, i.e. 1 magnet to 100 magnets? I am interested >in the "pulling" force only at the end of the roll of magnets. >Thanks, >Butch LaFonte > I think the B field, which determines the force from the end of your magnet stack depends a lot on the B-H characteristics of the magnets, when they will saturate, etc. A similar example is a single layer solenoid. For small number of turns, the B field is a function of the number of turns. But if you make it longer with more turns, the B field doesn't increase correspondingly. In the limit of a very long solenoid, the B field is a function of the turns/length, not the total number of turns. The force as a function of number of magnets would be easy to measure. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 12 05:34:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA03990; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 05:32:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 05:32:45 -0700 Message-ID: <19980812123302.18358.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [206.175.71.242] From: "Melody O'Hare" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Remove from distribution Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 05:33:02 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"WSdG71.0.G-.jjOqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5613 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Please, please, please. I have found my way onto this distribution list. Does anyone know how to get it removed. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 12 08:09:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22409; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 08:04:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 08:04:18 -0700 Message-ID: <000801bdc602$80ad09a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Remove from distribution Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:04:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"N2w8H1.0.uT5.oxQqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5614 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: * TO UNSUBSCRIBE: * Send a blank email message to freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com with the * word "unsubscribe" in the SUBJECT: line. No quotes around * "unsubscribe," of course. -----Original Message----- From: Melody O'Hare >Please, please, please. > >I have found my way onto this distribution list. Does anyone know how >to get it removed. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 12 09:16:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22278; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:13:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:13:26 -0700 Message-ID: <003301bdc60c$29fa0400$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: transformer induction Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:13:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ysDtY.0._R5.byRqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5615 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ken Could you tell me the diameter of your coils A and B? The noisy signals with the shorted A-B out of phase series coils is probably due to inexact phase cancellation producing harmonics. If you could 'capture' the signal using a storage 'scope or PC-scope, you could perform Fourier decomposition of the waveforms to see if the 'noise' is produced as I described. I will try the experiment myself this Saturday and post the results. I am also going to try an elliptical secondary with the narrow side touching the outside of the core, and the long sides at least twice the length of the diamater of the core (for some reason?!?). I cannot find the work causing field described anywhere apart from the 'A' field already described. Can anyone else? Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 12 10:49:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04402; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:47:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:47:40 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980812174739.00695150@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:47:39 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: High frequency exposure. Resent-Message-ID: <"k4Txa3.0.f41.yKTqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5616 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:50 AM 8/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >Working around arcs has been demonstrated to be a relatively safe >experimental situation. It is only when a high potential discharges in a >vacuum that so called x rays have been observed. In the majority of all >high frequency discharges this presents no danger to the human body. >mnorris@akron.infi.net > According to Rife and Lakhovski they may even be good for you. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 12 15:48:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14342; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:46:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:46:29 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <24fc9c02.35d21b46@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:46:29 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: transformer induction Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"1OdhJ.0.tV3.2jXqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5617 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 8/12/98 9:15:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk writes: << Ken Could you tell me the diameter of your coils A and B?> Sure, Transformer toroidal core: od 3cm, id 1.2 cm; primary 1.0 cm dia; dia of coil A, tightly wound, 1.0 cm; coil B, loosely wound, 3.0 cm (approx) If you could 'capture' the signal using a storage 'scope or PC-scope, you could perform Fourier decomposition of the waveforms to see if the 'noise' is produced as I described. >> I have the equipment to in theory do this easily but it is not set up yet. However, the noisey waveforms appear to be a large number of randomly spaced transient pulses of varying amplitudes riding on the 100kHz - not what I would expect a series of harmonics to look like. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 12 19:35:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06022; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:34:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:34:00 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:33:48 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: transformer induction Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"RYjoK2.0.wT1.N2bqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5618 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 8/11/98 10:41:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: << This points out what could be a useful fact: a low >inpedance potentially high power source can be completely negated by a a very >loosely coupled high impedance (and potentailly easily generated) out of phase >source. I think the currents are produced by the net voltage, the higher voltage determines the direction. In your case, coil B. Is this what you mean by "negate"? Yes-- the higher voltage determines the direction, but if it is high impedance, or loosely coupled there will be no significant current, regardless. < So the coil B is actually supplying (reactive) power to the impedance in coil A. -Dave >> Yes, I thought that was kind of interesting. Incidently, the analysis you did sounds reasonable to me. It is not so clear why the results at 60 hz were what appear to me quite different. I would expect a loosely wound secondary to be more decoupled at 60 hz than at 100kHz. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 12 22:47:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA27846; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:44:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:44:24 -0700 Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808130545.WAA02820@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: transformer induction Resent-Message-ID: <"X1t7F3.0.ro6.tqdqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5619 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi David and all, At 05:13 PM 8/12/98 +0100, you wrote: > >I cannot find the work causing field described anywhere apart from the 'A' >field already described. Can anyone else? > >Best regards > >David Callaghan >DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk > Not yet... Simple transformer theory says the flux from the secondary opposes that from the primary, so the primary has less back EMF and draws more current to keep the flux (and primary turns per volt) the same. Thus the net core flux is constant. This says that with zero resistance wires, a (near) infinite power flow can occur from pri. to sec., with the core flux constant. Of course if there is any delay, a component of the primary and secondary fluxes will appear, not just their difference. This would make interesting pulse tests! I took a small transformer, 12 Volts, 2 Amps and tried to measure the change in flux as the secondary was switched from open to full load. I first used a small neodym. magnet to feel the leakage flux, assome related to core flux, even if nonlinearly. This wasn't very precise, so I used a pickup coil connected to a scope. The waveforms were not sinusoidal due to the nonlinear B-H core characteristics. Even if I reduced the primary voltage with a Variac, there were distortions, as the B-H curves are not linear even at low values. I found that the flux decreases about 10% from no load to full load. Part of this I guess is the IR drop in the primary wires. So another queastion is how can the net ~constant = magnetizing flux in the core couple (almost value) of energy which is related to the primary flux, not the net flux? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 12 22:59:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01923; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:58:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:58:54 -0700 Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808130559.WAA04354@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: transformer induction Resent-Message-ID: <"veQrh.0.zT.T2eqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5620 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, At 10:45 PM 8/12/98 -0700, I wrote: >So another queastion is how can the net ~constant = magnetizing flux in the >core couple (almost value) of energy which is related to the primary flux, >not the net flux? >-Dave > It must have been late! What I meant to type: So another question is how can the net flux in the core (approximately constant = to the magnetizing flux) couple the (almost unlimited) value of energy which is related to the primary flux, not the net flux which flows through the core? Thanks, -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 12 23:12:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA05226; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 23:11:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 23:11:51 -0700 Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 23:12:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808130612.XAA09207@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: transformer induction Resent-Message-ID: <"rQKrh.0.aH1.dEeqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5621 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:33 PM 8/12/98 EDT, Ken Easy wrote: >In a message dated 8/11/98 10:41:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >ddameron@earthlink.net writes: > >Yes-- the higher voltage determines the direction, but if it is high >impedance, or loosely coupled there will be no significant current, >regardless. > > >< So the coil B is actually supplying (reactive) power to the impedance in >coil A. > -Dave > >> >Yes, I thought that was kind of interesting. Incidently, the analysis you did >sounds reasonable to me. It is not so clear why the results at 60 hz were >what appear to me quite different. I would expect a loosely wound secondary >to be more decoupled at 60 hz than at 100kHz. > Ken Keasy@aol.com > Well you certainly need more turns/volt for the lower frequency, everything else being the same. The coupling itself seems to be related to the flux enclosed, well the derivative which gives the frequency dependence. For higher frequency tests, I was thinking of a ferrite core from a TV flyback transformer, easy to take out, if the whole thing isn't cased in epoxy. It's 2 "U" pieces usually. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 12 23:34:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21177; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 23:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 23:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980804181031.006ad5d0@multinet.net.il> X-Sender: BUSHI@multinet.net.il X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 18:10:31 +0300 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lev Robert Subject: Re: The Gyroscopic Inertial Thruster - GIT V2.0 test O In-Reply-To: <224220@.multinet.net.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HbxuT.0.lA5.2Xeqr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5622 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jean Louis I visited your site recently. It's very stimulating but in my view there not enough info to build the GIT Could not see how the excentric movment could be implemented I will appreciate some more info Robert At 20:37 02/08/98 GMT+0200, you wrote: >Hi All, > >Today, I have built and tested successfully the Gyroscopic Inertial Thruster >(GIT) from David Cowlishaw. This device works as claimed by the inventor. I >have obtained a real translation effect on a smooth surface resulting from the >unbalanced centrifugal forces inside the device. > >You will find all color pictures, diagram and video about my GIT V2.0 at: > >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/GITV2.htm > >Sincerely, > >Jean-Louis Naudin (France) > > > BUSHILEV From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 13 00:51:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA23642; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 00:50:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 00:50:54 -0700 Message-ID: <002e01bdc68f$206bca80$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: transformer induction Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:50:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Q-dGo3.0.Kn5.Thfqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5623 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Imagine the core as a water reservoir. You can take water out as fast as you want, and if the reservoir is being replenished at the same rate, the water level (flux), remains constant. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk -----Original Message----- From: dave dameron >So another question is how can the net flux in the core (approximately >constant = to the magnetizing flux) couple the (almost unlimited) value of >energy which is related to the primary flux, not the net flux which flows >through the core? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 13 06:09:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA12406; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 06:08:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 06:08:16 -0700 Message-ID: <001b01bdc6bb$7668b700$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: "Federico Marongiu" , Subject: Re: Is it a good mind? Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:07:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01BDC6C3.C65DCB80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"PkuB13.0.h13.0Lkqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5624 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BDC6C3.C65DCB80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Federico I have had a quick look at the Magtet 'thing'. I didn't bother to read = it all though as it appeared to have a religous basis. Religion and = science aren't a good mix in my opinion. The 'poltergeist machine' seems more plausible however, and could be the = correct explanation for this phenomenom. The same phenomena are also = reported (apart from materialisation) sometimes during extreme storms, = and put down to air currents. By the way, what exactly does your quote 'Is it a good mind?' mean, or = is it just a translation error. -----Original Message----- From: Federico Marongiu =20 =20 what do you think about Magtet (see the following web page = www.techline.com )? ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BDC6C3.C65DCB80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Federico
 
I have had a quick look at the Magtet 'thing'.  = I didn't=20 bother to read it all though as it appeared to have a religous = basis. =20 Religion and science aren't a good mix in my opinion.
 
The 'poltergeist machine' seems more = plausible=20 however, and could be the correct explanation for this phenomenom.  = The=20 same phenomena are also reported (apart from materialisation) sometimes = during=20 extreme storms, and put down to air currents.
 
By the way, what exactly does your quote 'Is it a = good=20 mind?'  mean, or is it just a translation error.
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Federico Marongiu <syncronic@geocities.com>
 
what do you think about Magtet = (see the=20 following web page www.techline.com=20 )?
 
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BDC6C3.C65DCB80-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 13 07:04:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27826; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 07:02:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 07:02:57 -0700 Message-ID: <005101bdc6c2$8a74afe0$e8882599@default> Reply-To: "Clyde Knight Jr." From: "Clyde Knight Jr." To: Subject: Re: Human BioMind Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:59:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01BDC6A1.00821000" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"6U5XB1.0.io6.G8lqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5625 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BDC6A1.00821000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, My name is Clyde. I think of myself as an inventor though I have not as = of yet patented any of my projects. Funding is scarce these days but I = still have my imagination and my drawing board. I noticed that you give = some sound and objective evaluations to many different types of concepts = and innovations. Are you a prodigy ? I too have many projects that I am = to date not sure about and would like an objective opinion. One of my = projects is a weapon system that is bloodless and non lethal... I know that you think that "religion and science" do not mix...but = everything that science is discovering to date is also being recognized = as having been documented in the bible as a biblical fact centuries = prior to it discovery. Please visit this projects page on my web site at: = http://www.angelfire.com/biz/kniteenterprises/peace.html Would appreciate a look and response. Thanks ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BDC6A1.00821000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
 
My name is Clyde. I think of myself = as an=20 inventor though I have not as of yet patented any of my projects. = Funding is=20 scarce these days but I still have my imagination and my drawing board. = I=20 noticed that you give some sound and objective evaluations to many = different=20 types of concepts and innovations. Are you a prodigy ? I too have many = projects=20 that I am to date not sure about and would like an objective opinion. = One of my=20 projects is a weapon system that is bloodless and non = lethal...
 
I know that you think that "religion and = science" do=20 not mix...but  everything that science is discovering to date is = also being=20 recognized as having been documented in the bible as a biblical = fact =20 centuries prior to it discovery.
 
Please visit this projects page on = my web site=20 at: http://= www.angelfire.com/biz/kniteenterprises/peace.html
 
 
Would appreciate a look and = response.=20 Thanks
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BDC6A1.00821000-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 13 08:07:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15275; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:05:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:05:35 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <9ce70ca4.35d30098@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:04:54 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: transformer induction Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"SMzLI3.0.bk3._2mqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5626 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 8/13/98 12:52:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk writes: << Imagine the core as a water reservoir. You can take water out as fast as you want, and if the reservoir is being replenished at the same rate, the water level (flux), remains constant. Best regards David Callaghan >> Yes, but he makes an excellent point. HOW do we explain (assume a primary and secondary on two legs of a core ie not wound over each other) a significant increase in energy, or power, moved from the primary to secondary when the secondary is loaded. If we believe in superposition the B and H fields in the core, at least to first order, are exactly the same. So what has changed to account for the energy transfer? The usual ExH vector used to explain EM power transfer does not seem to work, so far as I can see. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 13 08:33:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25185; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:32:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:32:08 -0700 Message-ID: <19980813153519.1798.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:35:19 -0700 (PDT) From: michael randall Subject: Nexus-Mark I "Joe" Energy Cell To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"n1YN93.0.Q96.uRmqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5627 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Freenrg-l Does anyone in Australia have any info on the "Joe" water energy cell that powered 11 cars as mentioned in the Aug-Sept '98 Nexus magazine article written by Barry Hilton? Has anyone built a unit or know of anyone selling a unit? Its not a Brown's Gas unit but some kind of ZPE tapping device that can charge the air from the carbarator into powering a car. Regards, Michael Randall _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 13 13:48:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23395; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:46:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:46:22 -0700 Message-ID: <19980813204016.13048.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:40:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: Springwalker To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"IVv6H2.0.Nj5.U2rqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5628 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Would love to see someone bomb down some singletrack with that thing! ---Patrick Tremblay wrote: > > Hi, > > Go at www.springwalker.com > > Read the page, there is a patent number. > > thanks, > > The springwalker is used a recreational and sports vehicule, I call it a > "Bike With Legs". > > Simply instead of being seated and pedaling, you are standing and you walk. > > This is cool. > > == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 13 17:00:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27505; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 16:58:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 16:58:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 16:58:51 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: PSI book, shameful review. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wVGXL2.0.aj6.Cstqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5629 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I cannot praise THE CONSCIOUS UNIVERSE highly enough. I've mentioned it here before. It's a review of the findings of contemporary parapsychology, aimed at the non-science reader. Disturbing! I just stumbled across a site which reveals a very familiar situation. The journal NATURE reviewed the above book. It was the expected hatchet job, since everyone knows that parapsychology is bunk, right? :) Unfortunately, the statistician who wrote the review made an embarassing blunder. The findings at trillions of billions against chance turn out to be correct, and the reviewer was wrong. His argument (and even the very title of the review) were entirely faulty. Nature refused to print a correction, or to print any of the complaining letters. Then Nature printed a correction many months later, but regarding a separate issue. Finally Nature printed the author's letter. See: NATURE'S REVIEW: http://mail.cruzio.com/~quanta/review.html THE CORRESPONDENCE: http://mail.cruzio.com/~quanta/badgood.html http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/psi/ http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/psi/rossman.html THE BOOK: http://www.PsiResearch.org/book.html Note: Chapter 13, A FIELD GUIDE TO SKEPTICISM, is even more interesting than material in the book FORBIDDEN SCIENCE regarding some of the shameful "pathological" behavior common to skepticism. If you want to help out SCIENCE HOBBYIST, order from here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0062515020/sciencehobbyist/ A conflict of interest? OK, then order through the author's site, or directly from amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0062515020/consciousnessresA/ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0062515020/ ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 13 17:13:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02656; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:12:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:12:16 -0700 From: mindtech@nor.com.au Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980814103101.006bb700@pophost.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:31:01 +1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Nexus-Mark I "Joe" Energy Cell In-Reply-To: <19980813153519.1798.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8VGla2.0.Mf.U3uqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5630 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Does anyone in Australia have any info on the "Joe" water energy cell >that powered 11 cars as mentioned in the Aug-Sept '98 Nexus magazine >article written by Barry Hilton? > >Regards, Michael Randall > Jerry of Keelynet has a full copy of the paper. He said he might put it online. Ask him. There are a few details left out, however. If you read it carefully, you will see nothing is going _into_ the carburator. The "unit" superimposes a ZPE field upon the engine, which runs cold. How? See what he says about reciprocal flow. Joe lives in the next town over from me, but has now become very secretive. I have seen the partly completed work of others in trying to replicate his device, from info he gave out a few years ago. So far, I have heard nothing positive, but I do not believe he is a fraud. There are too many witnesses, and he seeks nothing financially. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 13 17:20:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05145; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:18:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:18:33 -0700 Message-ID: <35D381A8.2795486F@harti.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 02:15:37 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, mindtech@nor.com.au Subject: Re: Nexus-Mark I "Joe" Energy Cell References: <3.0.1.32.19980814103101.006bb700@pophost.nor.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9CUq41.0.IG1.P9uqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5631 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: mindtech@nor.com.au wrote: > >Does anyone in Australia have any info on the "Joe" water energy cell > >that powered 11 cars as mentioned in the Aug-Sept '98 Nexus magazine > >article written by Barry Hilton? > > > >Regards, Michael Randall > > > > Jerry of Keelynet has a full copy of the paper. He said he might put it > online. Ask him. There are a few details left out, however. If you read it > carefully, you will see nothing is going _into_ the carburator. The "unit" > superimposes a ZPE field upon the engine, which runs cold. How? See what he > says about reciprocal flow. > > Joe lives in the next town over from me, but has now become very secretive. Can´t you just drive by and have a look ? If you know him, he should be able to show you. Regards, Stefan. > I have seen the partly completed work of others in trying to replicate his > device, from info he gave out a few years ago. So far, I have heard nothing > positive, but I do not believe he is a fraud. There are too many witnesses, > and he seeks nothing financially. > > Peter Nielsen -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 13 19:24:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA25644; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 19:23:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 19:23:23 -0700 Message-ID: <19980814022333.14899.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 19:23:33 -0700 (PDT) From: michael randall Subject: Re: Nexus-Mark I "Joe" Energy Cell To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"PtwcH2.0.WG6.Q-vqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5632 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Peter, > Jerry of Keelynet has a full copy of the paper. He said he might put it > online. Ask him. There are a few details left out, however. If you read it > carefully, you will see nothing is going _into_ the carburator. The "unit" > superimposes a ZPE field upon the engine, which runs cold. How? See what he > says about reciprocal flow. Ok, the author Barry Hilton didn't get into detail the theory part. Hey it works! > Joe lives in the next town over from me, but has now become very secretive. > I have seen the partly completed work of others in trying to replicate his > device, from info he gave out a few years ago. So far, I have heard nothing > positive, but I do not believe he is a fraud. There are too many witnesses, > and he seeks nothing financially. Yes, Hilton has also written a book, "The Joe Phenomenon: How to Run Your Car on Zero Point Energy" published by NuTech, with more detail plans ($41USD 40 pages). The Nexus plans and descriptions of the Mark I to III looked pretty simple. I had heard from a fellow Australian researcher that the water used could have been critical for success. > Peter Nielsen > Michael Randall _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 13 22:08:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA21726; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 22:04:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 22:04:37 -0700 Message-ID: <004b01bdc741$303010e0$1a5cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: Nexus-Mark I "Joe" Energy Cell Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:50:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"6K8OT1.0.NJ5.aLyqr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5633 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Jerry of Keelynet has a full copy of the paper. He said he might put it >online. Ask him. There are a few details left out, however. If you read it >carefully, you will see nothing is going _into_ the carburator. The "unit" >superimposes a ZPE field upon the engine, which runs cold. Someone (Joseph Cater?) says that you can run an engine on orgone by building an orac around your gas tank. I've never seen this done, of course, and I have no idea how it would work unless the ignition spark produces some sort of violent reaction. (Mixing orgone and radiation is a Bad Idea.) I don't remember hearing anything about it running cold. -- "Volleyball is racquetless team ping-pong played with an inflated ball and an elevated net while standing on the table." --George Carlin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 14 00:20:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA17909; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:12:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:12:21 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980814164052.00822260@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:40:52 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re: Nexus-Mark I "Joe" Energy Cell In-Reply-To: <19980813153519.1798.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jcSeW.0.fN4.KD-qr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5634 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:35 AM 8/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >To: Freenrg-l > >Does anyone in Australia have any info on the "Joe" water energy cell >that powered 11 cars as mentioned in the Aug-Sept '98 Nexus magazine >article written by Barry Hilton? > >Has anyone built a unit or know of anyone selling a unit? > >Its not a Brown's Gas unit but some kind of ZPE tapping device that >can charge the air from the carbarator into powering a car. > >I saw the article and sent an emial to address shoen in the article requestion some additional information for my free enery website. But I have heard as of yet nothing. What be interested if any others have additional info on device Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 14 08:52:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA12805; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 08:50:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 08:50:58 -0700 Message-ID: <35D475D5.7AB7@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:49:03 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Paging John Tooker Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Wdujb.0.u73.Wp5rr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5635 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John, are you still here? If not, does anyone here know how to contact him? Thanks, Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 14 09:05:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19577; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:02:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:02:07 -0700 Message-ID: <19980814160337.27881.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:03:37 -0700 (PDT) From: michael randall Subject: Mark I "Joe Cell" Design To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"Cd5682.0.jn4.zz5rr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5636 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: freenrg-l The "Joe Cell" Mark I design: ^ Energy output to carburetor housing I I I---------------------------------I I----------I I I--------------------------------------I I Neg. battery terminal I I I---------------> I I--------------------------------------I I I------------------------------------------------I I I Positive battery terminal The outer housing (from old milking machine) is connected to the positive terminal of a 12V dc battery; 36"X 4" dia. stainless steel (316). He later found that a smaller unit, 18" long, worked just as well; left end had glass window, right end had perspec window with hole for through which he fitted a terminal post; the top opening was connected to a 1/2" clear plastic hose connected to carburetor preheating device (housing) of the Rover V8 3500 SDI. The inner element is connected to the negative terminal of a 12V dc battery; 24"X 3.5" dia. stainless steel perforated with 8mm diamond-shaped holes at 12mm centers. The unit is filled with plain water and charged by the 12V dc battery. If the car was left overnight the unit discharged and then required to be charged for at least 3 min. before working again. It was found, by Prof. Ron Davis (now deceased) of Newcastle University, that the water discharge could be solved by placing a 1.5V dc battery to the cell when not in use (negative to earth and positive to cell casing. Joe also had to advance the timing by 80 deg. to bring the motor back to a normal, smooth idle. Regards, Michael _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 14 09:30:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA30086; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:26:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:26:39 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <56625c06.35d46537@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:26:27 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Transformer forces?? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"P9sCd1.0.-L7.-K6rr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5637 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In an attempt to understand exactly how power is transmitted through a xformer: I believe if you place two air core windings side by side, use one as the primary and one as the secondary and transmit power to a load --- there is a equal force on each winding pushing them apart. The question is: now you place the windings on a transformer core ---are there still forces? Are they larger? Do they have any role in power transfer? (If the secondary is loosely wound it would be a fairly easy measurement to answer at least the first two of those questions.) Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 14 19:40:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16977; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:33:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:33:41 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Nexus-Mark I "Joe" Energy Cell Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 02:34:22 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35d5ef7d.182132094@mail-hub> References: <3.0.5.32.19980814164052.00822260@main.murray.net.au> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980814164052.00822260@main.murray.net.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o4pgA3.0.094.3EFrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5638 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:40:52 +0900, GEOFF EGEL wrote: [snip] >>Its not a Brown's Gas unit but some kind of ZPE tapping device that >>can charge the air from the carbarator into powering a car. >> >>I saw the article and sent an emial to address shoen in the article >requestion some additional information for my free enery website. >But I have heard as of yet nothing. > >What be interested if any others have additional info on device I have no additional info, but I do suspect that I know how it may work. First, I don't think it has much to do with ZPE. I suspect that it may create hydrinos, which being much smaller than normal hydrogen atoms, are actually able to migrate through the metal wall of the carburet ta and mix with the intake air. when the hydrinos react with one another at high temperature, they can liberate up to a thousand times as much energy as a normal chemical reaction, so only very small amounts are needed. Note that even normal hydrogen is absorbed into iron to some extent. (See hydrogen embrittlement). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 14 22:52:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA07303; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:49:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:49:54 -0700 Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808150550.WAA06524@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: transformer forces?? Resent-Message-ID: <"E4GSR2.0.1o1.16Irr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5639 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken and all, At 11:04 AM 8/13/98 EDT, Ken Easy wrote: >In a message dated 8/13/98 12:52:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk writes: > ><< > Imagine the core as a water reservoir. You can take water out as fast as > you want, and if the reservoir is being replenished at the same rate, the > water level (flux), remains constant. > > Best regards > > David Callaghan >> Like maybe the "magnetomotive" potentials for calculating fluxes in magnetic circuits? A coil with some Amp-turns is usually the source. >Yes, but he makes an excellent point. HOW do we explain (assume a primary and >secondary on two legs of a core ie not wound over each other) a significant >increase in energy, or power, moved from the primary to secondary when the >secondary is loaded. If we believe in superposition the B and H fields in the >core, at least to first order, are exactly the same. So what has changed to >account for the energy transfer? The usual ExH vector used to explain EM >power transfer does not seem to work, so far as I can see. > I have trouble with the ExH vector for non-transverse flows. Can sort of see it for a wire: The E radiates out to some other surface, the H circles the wire. For a magnetic core, think of a leg of a core in cylindrical coordinates (r, phi, z). The core and B field are along the Z axis. There is an E field in the core, that which causes eddy currents. From Faraday's law (Curl E =-dB/dt), E=r. So ExH gives a radial vector??? And: >In an attempt to understand exactly how power is transmitted through a >xformer: I believe if you place two air core windings side by side, use one >as the primary and one as the secondary and transmit power to a load --- there >is a equal force on each winding pushing them apart. The question is: now >you place the windings on a transformer core ---are there still forces? Are >they larger? Do they have any role in power transfer? (If the secondary is >loosely wound it would be a fairly easy measurement to answer at least the >first two of those questions.) The force being IxB? For 2 solenoids, would be like 2 bar magnets side by side. I tried some tests. With a normal transformer, I can feel the "leakage" flux with a magnet. So I replaced the magnet with a coil, powered by the transformer. The coil has a steel core and swung free on a string. It was attracted to the transformer with either "+ or -" connections. I realized it was just being attracted to the iron in the transformer. So I used 2 air core solenoids, one swung on the string. If I timed the "shortings" of the secondary, I could eventually get a few mm swing from the repulsive force. The string was about 1.5 m long. So this force isn't very strong, but the transformer was not too powerful at 60Hz: Open circuit voltage 0.36 Volts, short circuit current 14 mA. The secondary was about 1000 turns No. 26 AWG wire. I can see a force on the free secondary as it's in a gradient of the primaries B field. As a aside, if a solenoid is in a uniform B field along its axis, I see no net forces, by symmetry. The wires and coil may be compressed, though. Have not got the setup yet for a free secondary with a core. My first guess is that there would be no force as I (secondary) and B are in 2 different spaces. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 14 23:55:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20671; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:46:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:46:41 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Overunity --- Not! Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:52:36 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"U5kWP3.0.u25.HxIrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5640 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Happened across the "Free Energy Surprise" in the book "Occult Ether Physics" by William Lyne. He said he was able to generate 48KW of energy output with only a 12 watt input, using a device that he says proves "Nikola Tesla's Nuclear Theories". Sounded like a neat thing to do, nothing subtle here, just massive overunity power. So I ordered his plans for $10.00. The device is relatively easy to construct, with the only special parts being those that can be constructed with easy to obtain steel pipe and rod stock. The device is excited with a standard neon sign transformer with a 15 kV output voltage, connected to a Variac to adjust the primary voltage. During operation, Lyne claims that he could measure up to 2.3 amps with an AC panel ammeter in the secondary circuit at 14.220 kV for a power output of about 32 kWatts. Pretty impressive. The neon sign transformer has the usual center tap ground, so that each secondary terminal is at about 7.5 kV above ground or 15 kV across the two secondary terminals. So I built a version of his device, and connected it up according to plan, and with a high voltage probe connected to a DMM to monitor the secondary voltage and a 3 amp full scale Simpson panel ammeter to measure the secondary current. At about 2.5kV on each terminal, or 5kV total secondary voltage, the ammeter starts to move, and reaches about 2 amps at 15kV! Wow, 30 kWatts of output power extracted from about 2 pounds of cheap steel pipe stock and a neon sign transformer! Next step is to figure out how to extract some of this energy from the secondary loop. If I connect an ordinary 100 watt light bulb in series with the secondary ammeter, I should be able to see it light up when I get secondary current above about 0.5 amps or so. Run the experiment again, the secondary ammeter shows 2 amps, but the light bulb does not light! Hmmm. Do we have a problem? So lets do a little regression here. Disconnect everything from the secondary circuit, then connect one terminal of the ammeter to one terminal of the transformer. No connections of any kind to the other terminals of the ammeter or transformer. Run the experiment again. Still shows 2 amps at 15kV! If we place the meter right next to the transformer with no connections to the secondary, then no current is shown in the meter at 15 kV. If one transformer secondary terminal is connected to both terminals of the ammeter (i.e. the ammeter is shorted out, but connected to the transformer secondary), then the ammeter will again show 2 amps at 15 kV! Really wild anomalous free energy behavior! Had two similar meters, one 3 amps full scale, the other 5 amps full scale. Each shows about 1/3 full scale reading at 15 kV although the indicated amperages at 1/3 full scale are different. Decided to disassemble one of the meters to see what was going on. The meters are the usual iron vane type used for AC ammeters. The vane is attached to an off center pivot and located inside a coil of about 40 turns of #18 enameled wire. As the AC current is increased, the spring loaded vane is magnetically attracted from the center of the coil to the inside perimeter of the coil. The indicating needle is attached to the vane. Apparently the vane can also be electrostatically attracted to the coil when the voltage on the coil gets above about 2.5kv above ground. So the AC ammeter can also inadvertently act as a high voltage meter as well ! Shucks. Wish the experiment had generated overunity. But a great lesson for me on observation and the pitfalls of interpreting measurements. ===================== Contacted Mr. Lyne about all this, and he says he still believes that there are many kilowatts of energy running around in that secondary circuit, if only we can figure out how to tap it. Maybe I didn't correctly reproduce his experiment, as I did not see the resonant dip in input power that he reports for a total secondary voltage of 14.220 kV. But, I guess I now will move on to other types of devices. Charles I From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 15 00:35:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26811; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 00:32:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 00:32:57 -0700 Message-ID: <35D53999.A3B@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 02:32:41 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charles Wilde CC: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Overunity --- Not! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FyCYZ3.0.gY6.fcJrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5641 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Charles! Simply excellent and a classic case of misinterpretation that was discovered by NOT believing the instrumentation because it would NOT DRIVE THE PREDICTED LOAD. May I put this on KeelyNet as an archived file for others to read and learn from? You did a great job explaining the entire thing, especially the analysis of the ammeter! I'll send a copy to Don Lancaster just to get a rise out of him..... -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 15 00:53:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01762; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 00:47:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 00:47:26 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Overunity --- Not! Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 00:53:21 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"FppIV3.0.NR.EqJrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5642 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sure, it would be an honor. Hope it does help some others out. Also gave me greater insights into gold fever! Charles. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry W. Decker [mailto:jdecker@keelynet.com] > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 1998 12:33 AM > To: Charles Wilde > Cc: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net; freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Overunity --- Not! > > > Hi Charles! > > Simply excellent and a classic case of misinterpretation that was > discovered by NOT believing the instrumentation because it would NOT > DRIVE THE PREDICTED LOAD. > > May I put this on KeelyNet as an archived file for others to read and > learn from? You did a great job explaining the entire thing, > especially > the analysis of the ammeter! > > I'll send a copy to Don Lancaster just to get a rise out of > him..... > -- > Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To leave this list, email > with the body text: leave keelynet > WWW based join and leave forms and KeelyNet list archives > are at http://dallastexas.net/keelynet/ > ------------------------------------------------------------- > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 15 07:18:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA15892; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 07:16:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 07:16:21 -0700 Message-ID: <00d201bdc857$49203780$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Interesting question, magnet fundmental behavior Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:15:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"WffWf2.0.Eu3.qWPrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5643 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Butch I am not at all sure about the physics of this - but I performed this simple, unscientific test. Put a large spanner in a thick book, about 0.5 inches from the top cover I took a stack of 14 ceramic magnets, 2 x 1 x 0.5 inches, with the largest faces being positive and negative respectively, stacked +-+-+-..... and tried to slide the spanner out of the book - which I accomplished easily. Then I repeasted the test with a single magnet and failed. The force seemed much stronger with the stack of magnets. After all this I realised I had also been resting the magnets on my wallet in my pocket. DOH!!! Anyway, it appears that stacking magnets does increase the flux density to a point. As Ken E pointed out, this is probably not linear and probably comes to a stop somewhere along the line. Anyone know more about this? I will try a more accurate 'pull test' with a lab scale if I can get someone to lend me one. Best regards David Callaghan >In a message dated 8/11/98 10:40:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, HLafonte@aol.com >writes: > >If you have a cylinder shaped magnet 1/2" dia. x 1/4" thick, and it will >pick up a piece of iron 1" square x 1/2" thick, that weights 1 pound, with how >much force will a stack of 100 of these magnets be able to pull with on the 1" > square x 1/2" thick piece of iron if it is attached to a fixed object? > What I'm getting at is, when you start stacking these magnets, does the > attraction force at the end of the stack, increase in proportion to the >number > of magnets added to the stace, i.e. 1 magnet to 100 magnets? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 15 08:41:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07053; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 08:40:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 08:40:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35D5C686.39A7@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:35:16 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: HV and high amps References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"N-b4e.0.4k1.rlQrr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5644 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: The experiment Charles Wilde posted about the high voltage ad high amperage got me to thinking about something a friend mentioned. If the total current that can pass through a wire is equal to E/R, then what happens if you run HV through a wire, and then run low voltage high current through the same wire. Will the wire be able to pass higher current than normal, since the HV is present? Sounds simple enough to try. Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 15 09:57:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25639; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 09:48:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 09:48:24 -0700 Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 09:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808151649.JAA29958@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: HV and high amps Resent-Message-ID: <"DfYKI2.0.QG6.NlRrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5645 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Kyle and all, At 10:35 AM 8/15/98 -0700, you wrote: >All: > >The experiment Charles Wilde posted about the high voltage ad high >amperage got me to thinking about something a friend mentioned. If the >total current that can pass through a wire is equal to E/R, then what >happens if you run HV through a wire, and then run low voltage high >current through the same wire. Will the wire be able to pass higher >current than normal, since the HV is present? Sounds simple enough to >try. This experiment was very interesting as it isn't obvious what the floating parts of the ammeter will charge to, to produce the electrostatic forces. That is, unless the vane, etc. were grounded, but then the HV, 7.5kV would probably arc over and destroy the meter. > I guess the question is what you mean by "run HV" through a wire? As an example suppose you have 2 supplies. Using just Ohm's law: 1. 10 Volts with 1 Ohm resistance. This supply has a 10 Amp current limit. 2. 1000 Volts with 1 meg Ohm resistance. (1 mA max current). Now you connect them in parallel: You now get a 10 Volt + 990 Volts*(1/1000001) =~10.001 Volt supply Short circuit current = 10.001 Amps. So the HV supply has essentially no effect. Connect them in series: Supply voltage = 1000 + 10 =1010 Volts. Short circuit current = 1010 Volts/1000001 Ohms = ~ 1.01mA So here the Low voltage has essentially no effect. But what I guess you mean is: Connect the low voltage supply to the load (wire). The current is 10 Amps, assuming the total resistance is 1 Ohm. Now raise the L.V. supply and load above ground by the HV supply. The LV. supply and load are charged as one capacitor electrode, but the LV. current isn't affected. Just Ohms law. Are you thinking the HV potential may somehow change the drift velocity of the current? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 15 12:02:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00866; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:01:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:01:23 -0700 Message-ID: <35D5DAF9.60BF@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:01:13 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Overunity --- Not! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3PAiR3.0.FD.2iTrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5646 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! With regard to Charles Wilde's excellent experimental report, here is a comment from an electrical engineer that you might find of interest; Gee. Lab error. Whoodathunkit? A larger resonant circuit can easily have several kilowatts of energy running around inside it. The deflection on your color tv is a good example. Just like a piggy bank, the energy got there a nickel at a time. Also like the bank, you can empty that particular set of nickels only once. This appeared to be a profound and fundamental Tesla error. It was not obvious to me that he always was able to draw the distinction between resonant energy buildup and actual energy sourcing. -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 15 15:17:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15491; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:15:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:15:31 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <1ad1b7a2.35d60895@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 18:15:48 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: transformer forces?? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"HGvz11.0.zn3.3YWrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5647 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 8/14/98 11:05:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: > I have trouble with the ExH vector for non-transverse flows. Can sort of see it for a wire: The E radiates out to some other surface, the H circles the wire.>> Yes, in fact for two wires and DC fields integral E x H does in fact give the power transferred -- or at least very close to it. <. So ExH gives a radial vector???>> Well, also the result would be about the same whether or not the transformer is loaded, not exactly the answer we are looking for. << As a aside, if a solenoid is in a uniform B field along its axis, I see no net forces, by symmetry. The wires and coil may be compressed, though. >> Agreed. << Have not got the setup yet for a free secondary with a core. My first guess is that there would be no force as I (secondary) and B are in 2 different spaces. -Dave >> You may be right-- please post you results if you do the experiment. I don't have the parts for the experiment now, but eventually will (I just need a good iron core). Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 15 15:37:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22808; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:35:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:35:36 -0700 Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:36:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808152236.PAA26891@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: transformer forces?? Further tests. Resent-Message-ID: <"54Cdz2.0.6a5.tqWrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5648 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi Ken and all, >At 11:04 AM 8/13/98 EDT, Ken Easy wrote: >In an attempt to understand exactly how power is transmitted through a >xformer: I believe if you place two air core windings side by side, use one >as the primary and one as the secondary and transmit power to a load --- there >is a equal force on each winding pushing them apart. The question is: now >you place the windings on a transformer core ---are there still forces? Are >they larger? Do they have any role in power transfer? (If the secondary is >loosely wound it would be a fairly easy measurement to answer at least the >first two of those questions.) > I have mounted a free hanging secondary on a rectangular transformer lamination core. The primary is over the left vertical leg. The secondary, 40 turns, is hung by string with a vertical axis over the right vertical leg. The 2 legs are separated by 3.25 inches (8.3 cm). I cannot see a force in this case. However, when I mount the secondary horizontally over the top horiz. leg. there is a small force, horizontally moving the secondary away from the primary. A good demonstration of Lentz law, if the secondary is in a B field. What if the core was ideal and any leakage flux was absent, that is the secondary was in a space with no field? I measure with this coil a drop in flux from the primary side to the right vertical leg of about 2.5% = change in induced voltage. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 15 21:00:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15278; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:58:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 20:58:26 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <84337e84.35d658c7@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 23:57:58 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: transformer forces?? Further tests. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"Mu20y2.0.ek3.XZbrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5649 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 8/15/98 3:37:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: << > I have mounted a free hanging secondary on a rectangular transformer lamination core. The primary is over the left vertical leg. The secondary, 40 turns, is hung by string with a vertical axis over the right vertical leg. The 2 legs are separated by 3.25 inches (8.3 cm). I cannot see a force in this case. >> Very interesting -- are you determining if there is a force by turning the power on and off and looking for a deflection of the suspended coil? Also, approximately how much power is coming from the secondary? Ken keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 15 21:41:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28257; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:40:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:40:05 -0700 Message-ID: <19980816043357.7852.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:33:57 -0700 (PDT) From: michael randall Subject: Re: Nexus-Mark I To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"6dy6o3.0.Rv6.aAcrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5650 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---Robin van Spaandonk wrote: [snip] I suspect that > it may create hydrinos, which being much smaller than normal hydrogen > atoms, are actually able to migrate through the metal wall of the > carburet ta and mix with the intake air. Yes, the hydrinos is a good theory. Maybe this is how Yull Brown also powered his car with his BG back in the early 80's, by making the connection to the carburetor housing. At the time Brown also said something to effect that he got 1,000 miles per gallon of water, something that could not be achieved with conventional hydrolysis and direct mixture to the air intake. Regards, Michael Randall _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 15 22:22:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA06226; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 22:19:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 22:19:29 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: "'Bill McMurtry'" , jdecker@keelynet.com, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Overunity --- Not! Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 22:25:11 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"G5H3U2.0.CX1.Xlcrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5651 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Just to clarify the experiment I ran, the "device" consisted of a 3.5" steel pipe with a 1" cold rolled steel rod concentric inside of it. Pipe about 9" long, the steel rod about 6" long. The transformer secondary was attached one end to the pipe, the other to the rod. The capacitance of the steel pipe with rod is about 150pF, which would require an inductance of about 45,000 Henries to resonate at 60Hz. There is no way the neon sign transformer secondary has that amount of inductance. So there is no tank circuit, at least not at 60Hz. Also the wire in the secondary is probably so small that it would not sustain 2 amps of current at any frequency. The resistance of the secondary is such that the short circuit current maxes out at about 60 mA. I hung a Tek scope across the low voltage end of the high voltage probe, and it showed only 60Hz. That scope would show anything below about 1 GHz. After evaluating all of this, my conclusion is that this experiment was originally published in good faith by someone who had misinterpreted the measurements. I know I was certainly surprised at the original AC current meter reading. And even more surprised that the meter was really indicating AC kilovolts, rather than AC amperes. But after examining the way the meter was constructed, and all of the various other factors described, it all makes sense, at least to me. The bottom line seems to be that there is no overunity power here, not even ordinary tank circuit reactive power present. Only a meter labeled "AC current" that should be relabled "AC kilovolts" for this particular application. Charles From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 16 01:05:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA32533; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:04:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:04:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199808160804.EAA21777@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Cc: Subject: Re: Overunity --- Not! Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 18:50:35 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"C-azV.0.Ay7._9frr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5652 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: Jerry W. Decker > To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net > Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Overunity --- Not! > Date: Saturday, August 15, 1998 2:01 PM > > Hi Folks! > > With regard to Charles Wilde's excellent experimental report, here is a > comment from an electrical engineer that you might find of interest; > > Gee. Lab error. Whoodathunkit? > > A larger resonant circuit can easily have several kilowatts of energy > running around inside it. The deflection on your color tv is a good > example. > Just like a piggy bank, the energy got there a nickel at a time. Also > like the bank, you can empty that particular set of nickels only once. > > This appeared to be a profound and fundamental Tesla error. It was not > obvious to me that he always was able to draw the distinction between > resonant energy buildup and actual energy sourcing. > -- > While it is true that the arc gap on a tesla primary represents a short to the power supply; and the further observation that this tank circuit goes in and out of resonance, during which time power is inputed. A different situation can be made with high induction coils, and perhaps even tesla coil design if someone has not already incorporated it.(Not to my knowledge) The first basic difference is that these coils of thousands of winds can be made to ring at frequencies much higher than that predicted by quarter wavelength design. This is because of high internal capacitance establishing a high natural resonant frequency. Now there are several ways to accomplish this,all using arc gaps. Now this is supposed to be a forum in which ideas can be thrown out so I am forwarding the following fact if not discovery which I call binary resonance. For every series resonant phase a mirror image can be made that is simply the same circuit placed backwards with regards to its inputs. These are then simply 2 series resonant branches in parallel, but also 180 degrees out of phase by their relative positions. Now the midpoints of both resonant phases contain unobvious potentials expressed as a higher resonant voltage within both the inductor and capacitor, but existing in opposition to each other. With two phases at 180 as described one midpoint contains an unobvious compression of electrons concurrent with the other midpoint containing an unobvious void of electrons. Place a load across the midpoints and the unobvious becomes obvious. Twice the voltage exists between the midpoints than either resonant rise alone. What may not be immediately noticed is that if a short is placed across the midpoints the whole circuit then becomes parallel resonant. As a simple puzzle I will leave the fact that twice the amperage exists along the bridge than on either side. This is easily explained but more importantly this circuit now represents configuration of a switch which when in open position is series resonant and when closed is parallel resonant. This switch can take the form of an arc gap in which the oscillation is not going in and out of resonance,but rather expressing its oscillation BETWEEN resonances. Now this may change our nickel of energy a little bit because the number of free electrons oscillating in the coil is many times greater in the parallel resonant condition (10/1 in my model),than is actually inputed by the source. Also the frequency established by this violet arc gap shows that by the time these free electrons are to reverse polarity they could have only traveled 1/10th the length of the wire at the speed of light. (in my model) Using this system of two 56 Henry coils in binary resonant condition I was able to produce many different forms of energy release including one demonstration of quarter inch miniature lightening disharge over water at less than 10 watt draw from a conventional 110 ac outlet. No transformer was necessary. I am applying this work towards the investigation of S. Meyer HV electrolysis claims and have began work on a message board to post results. In the complete theory that I am working on 4 phases, and not just 2 will be used. Will post message board soon as it may not interest all the group. Sincere in the work, H. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 16 10:28:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA05006; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:23:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:23:40 -0700 From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:25:04 -0400 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net Subject: Water Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, rife-list@eskimo.com, list@oxytherapy.com, silver-list@eskimo.com, "magna-pak@lonet.ca" , "Kurush K Mistry" , Fred Walter , Jean-Pierre Lentin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"X3G_o2.0.gD1.RMnrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5653 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Recently, I picked up a magazine called "Lifestyle and wellness". In the Summer 98 issue distributed mainly in the Toronto area and Canada (416-492-6598). There is an interesting article on Water and health. In the article some researchers claim that IR absorption of water changes when exposed to magnetic energy and also when held by healers and others depending on their state of mind etc. They also refer to work of Water Sciences Research in Dallas Texas (972-682-9162). Has anyone heard of their work? This would be a good way to corroborate Davis and Rawls work which showed that surface tension of water increased with north pole and decreased with south pole treated water. I am planning to build a simple IR LED and photo cell set up to do my own experiments. But am still confused as to what all this means. Is low surface tension water more healthy? Or the high surface tension north pole water better? In my experience the this tastes much better than the south pole water. Specifically what type of water would enhance antioxidant qualities? I am getting to the point that ozonized water may be the only definitive way to go - but it tastes like Hydrogen peroxide! I have been interested in water for a long time but keep getting mixed messages in regard to health benefits of various treatments of water? Then there is the potential and question for energy generation from different types of water electrolysis?? Dose anyone know of a good book in this subject. Christopher Bird was writing one - but his untimely and most unfortunate death disrupted that project. I believe his wife was to complete it and publish it - but have not heard nothing. Chris Gupta From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 16 10:29:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07736; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:28:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:28:11 -0700 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808161728.KAA21567@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: transformer forces?? Further tests. Resent-Message-ID: <"0MkUS2.0.eu1.gQnrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5654 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken and all, At 11:57 PM 8/15/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 8/15/98 3:37:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >ddameron@earthlink.net writes: > ><< > > I have mounted a free hanging secondary on a rectangular transformer > lamination core. The primary is over the left vertical leg. The secondary, > 40 turns, is hung by string with a vertical axis over the right vertical > leg. The 2 legs are separated by 3.25 inches (8.3 cm). I cannot see a force > in this case. > >> >Very interesting -- are you determining if there is a force by turning the >power on and off and looking for a deflection of the suspended coil? Also, >approximately how much power is coming from the secondary? > Yes, the lamp load was connected directly to the swinging secondary and the circuit was not switched there, to not disturb the position. The current was about 150mA. Even on the horizontal limb, the deflection force was small: about 2mm deflection on a 1.5meter pendulum. (The mass of the secondary coil is about 25 grams). In both cases the deflection would be horizontal. So for increased forces, I tried the secondary short circuited. The DC resistance is 1.0 Ohm. Here the current is about 3.1 Amps and the deflections cannot be missed. The coil moves as much as it can in both cases. The horizontal case reminds me of repulsion coil articles I've seen with copper or aluminum rings. With the secondary on the vertical limb, the coil now also moves away from the primary, not, for example, just one side attracted to the core. If I had a sensitive spring balance, I think I could measure the forces. Are both of these due to leakage fluxes? The core is made from "L" shaped pieces, and is from an old filter choke at least 60 years old. I would like to try this experiment with modern transformer laminations with better B-H charactistics. I continue to use a small neodym. magnet as a good indicator to compare leakage fluxes at 60Hz. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 16 11:26:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26681; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:23:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:23:28 -0700 Message-ID: <001001bdc942$f09716a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Transfomers Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:21:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"4b1p53.0.pW6.WEorr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5655 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All I apologise if i'm talking rubbish here (i'm drunk at the minute) , but something has come into my head about this topic. RE flux cutting conductors etc. Induction only occurs in the part of a conductor that is encircled by a magnetic field (the core). Thus when we a talking about flux cutting conductors, it is really correct, its just the flux is contained within (not just in the core material itself). So in effect, on a transfomer, current is induced only in the conductor that is encircled by the magentic field (the inside half of the coil). Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 16 16:41:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17218; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 16:36:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 16:36:31 -0700 Message-ID: <35D788A4.52D0@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 18:34:28 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HV and high amps References: <199808151649.JAA29958@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VwsJz.0.hC4.zpsrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5656 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: dave dameron wrote: > > But what I guess you mean is: > Connect the low voltage supply to the load (wire). The current is 10 Amps, > assuming the total resistance is 1 Ohm. Now raise the L.V. supply and load > above ground by the HV supply. > > The LV. supply and load are charged as one capacitor electrode, but the LV. > current isn't affected. Just Ohms law. Are you thinking the HV potential > may somehow change the drift velocity of the current? My friend's idea was the above, here's mine (Don't know if this will work or not): You have two power supplies; A: 10V 10A supply, and B: 10,000V 1uA supply 1. Get a wire that has a resistance of, say, 10 ohms. 2. With A attached to the wire, only 1A can get through, with B attached, the 1uA can get through. 3. Connect power supply B to the wire, and run 10kV 1uA through the wire. 4. Connect power supply A to the wire, and run it's 10V 10A through the wire. (B is still running) The total voltage across the wire is about 10.01kV. I=E/R, so I=10,010/10=1001. If correct, this means that 1001 amps could get through the wire at this resistance and voltage. The 10A should be able to get through, if the wire is thick enough to avoid burning up. How could this be tested? Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 16 19:57:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01683; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:54:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:54:39 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HV and high amps Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 02:55:25 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35db9ad2.97878146@mail-hub> References: <199808151649.JAA29958@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <35D788A4.52D0@sunherald.infi.net> In-Reply-To: <35D788A4.52D0@sunherald.infi.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"anmnq1.0.DQ.kjvrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5657 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998 18:34:28 -0700, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: [snip] >1. Get a wire that has a resistance of, say, 10 ohms. >2. With A attached to the wire, only 1A can get through, with B >attached, the 1uA can get through. >3. Connect power supply B to the wire, and run 10kV 1uA through the >wire. >4. Connect power supply A to the wire, and run it's 10V 10A through the >wire. (B is still running) > >The total voltage across the wire is about 10.01kV. I=E/R, so If the total voltage across the wire is still supposed to be 10 kV, then you would appear to have connected the power supplies in parallel. However in this case, the low voltage supply will short the high voltage supply, and the total voltage across the wire will still probably only be about 10 V. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 16 20:37:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA17903; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 20:34:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 20:34:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199808170335.XAA15739@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Fw: Binary resonant arc gap. Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 13:07:23 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"021Ry2.0.ZN4.sIwrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5658 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: Meat Truck > To:freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Fw: Binary resonant arc gap. > Date: Saturday, August 08, 1998 1:01 PM > > > > ---------- > > From: Meat Truck > > To: JNaudin509@aol.com > > Subject: Fw: Binary resonant arc gap. > > Date: Saturday, August 08, 1998 12:46 PM > > > > > > > > ---------- > > > From: Meat Truck > > > To: Listserver@dallastexas.net > > > Subject: Binary resonant arc gap. > > > Date: Saturday, August 08, 1998 12:33 PM > > > > > > The following is a more detailed desription of the subject detailed in > > my > > > previous entree which Jerry had kindly included before I had subscribed > > to > > > the list. > > > > > > ---------- > > > > From: Jerry W. Decker > > > > To: Meat Truck > > > > Subject: Re: List postings. > > > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 1998 11:56 AM > > > > > > > >> > > > ....BTW, You make some excellent points and you > > > > appear to have validated what you claim by actual experiment??? Are > > you > > > > going to write this up so others might duplicate the effect? I've > > > > always wondered if you could tap into the harmonics or octaves of a > > > > tesla coil to maybe pull off additional energy. Despite all the > hoopla > > > > though about coils, its all flash and no muscle from my limited > > > > experiences. There must be a coupling effect of high voltage spike > > type > > > > discharges with aether and/or other forces that might produce useful > > > > phenomena. > > > > -- > > > > The binary arc gap method is used to produce high frequencies in > large > > > air core copper magnetic coils.This arc gap is completely different > from > > > that used in a tesla primary. HOW the idea can be modified for use in > > tesla > > > coils could be the subject for a further post. Likewise the actual > > > practical use of this high frequency is the subject of future postings. > > By > > > copper magnetic coil I am reffering to the type of coils used in Newman > > > machines. These typically use thousands of winds and can produce a > > magnetic > > > field independent of ferromagnetic principles, which are limited by > > > saturation and frequency. These coils generally use thinner wire which > > > means higher resistance and high internal capacitance. The frequency > that > > > these high inductance coils produce is postulated to be its natural > > > resonant freq. which comes from the internal capacitance interaction > with > > > the coils own inductance. This frequency has been observed to be much > > > higher than the quarter wave length resonance value discovered by Tesla > > (I > > > assume it was he) > > > The following description uses 20,000 winds of 23 gauge @ 1000 ohms. > > > These are big coils,about 80 lb. The first thing to be done is to > > resonate > > > the coils at 60 hz. Equations show that the desired capacitiy is .12 > > > microfarad, given the coils inductance of 56 Henry. When these values > are > > > placed in series a 15 fold increase in voltage across each element is > > > noticed. Now TWO of these series resonant circuits must be used in > > > parallel,and also backwards with respect to their connections. They are > > > then simply 180 degrees out of phase. Now the potential noted between > the > > 2 > > > midpoints of the resonant phases is 30 times the source voltage. Using > > 110 > > > ac as input this gives about three thousand volts which is placed > across > > a > > > set of metal bars placed side by side with a small air gap. A violet > high > > > frequency arc will appear in this gap. By placing a sensor coil to an > > > oscilloscope one can see many waveforms all in synchony at 166,000 hz. > > > When the midpoint connection is made or shorted the whole system > becomes > > > parallel resonant which in this case model causes the amperage into the > > > system to decrease 1800 fold. The voltage across the air gap also > > > disappears to household value which in the arc is exinguished which > once > > > again causes an open series resonant rise of 3000 volts.This enables > > cycle > > > to repeat itself. The use of this circuit to produce high frequency > > > magnetic fields may find application in the fact that electron > > oscillation > > > in the coil may exceed the input amperage. Manipulation of midpoint > > > connections can produce many different effects one of which was a > quarter > > > inch lightening display across water, at less than 10 watts power > > > consumption. Most of the significant experiments I did were at 12,000 > > volts > > > which in one experiment suggested over unity effects. This was done > > simply > > > by imputing 440 volts instead of household values. At this voltage > high > > > frequency effects can be passed through the body in which I was able to > > > light a neon bulb from body passage of currents. This can be dangerous > if > > > both midpoints are touched but not deadly as it has occured > accidentally > > to > > > me before. I will be constructing a large amperage version of this > > > circuit for use in creating a high frequency pulse in S. Meyer and > Browns > > > gas experiments. Hopefully the high frequency can be rectified by > > > conventional high frequency diodes. Would be interested in frequencies > > > obtained by other values of inductance. Sincerly Harvey D. Norris > > > mnorris@akron.infi.net > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 16 21:02:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28389; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 21:00:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 21:00:41 -0700 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 21:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808170401.VAA21997@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Transformers Resent-Message-ID: <"e1mfC.0.Sx6.ehwrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5659 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:21 PM 8/16/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi All > >I apologise if i'm talking rubbish here (i'm drunk at the minute) , but >something has come into my head about this topic. > >RE flux cutting conductors etc. Induction only occurs in the part of a >conductor that is encircled by a magnetic field (the core). Thus when we a >talking about flux cutting conductors, it is really correct, its just the >flux is contained within (not just in the core material itself). So in >effect, on a transfomer, current is induced only in the conductor that is >encircled by the magentic field (the inside half of the coil). > This is one reason claimed why, for example Gramme motors aren't used anymore. I would be interested if you can think of any way to test this. Haven't figured out any transformer winding which, with load, isn't an integer number of turns. If this theory was correct, would there be a difference between a "core" and "shell" (E-I) type of transformer? A cup core type where 100% of the conductor is encircled? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 16 22:16:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA24955; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:15:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:15:28 -0700 Message-ID: <35D8C784.C7559FF6@ihug.co.nz> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:15:01 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HV and high amps References: <199808151649.JAA29958@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <35D788A4.52D0@sunherald.infi.net> <35db9ad2.97878146@mail-hub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UUDxL3.0.o56.lnxrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5660 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well Robin you are right but that is not the spirit of the question, Put a diode in so it can't short out the low voltage one and what you will get is a measurement of high voltage when you are doing a high voltage measurement and high amps when you are doing an amperage measurement, with one at 100000v @ 1 amp and the other at 1v @ 100000 amps both DC you will think you have 10000000000 watts or there abouts but you will only have the wattage of power supply one plus the wattage of power supply two, 20000 watts or close enough, There is also a way to connect two power supplies together so the amperage and voltage will add, two of 500v @10amps (5000watts x2 = 10000watts) can be put together to read 1000v @ 20 amps (20000 watts) , however you don't really have twice the wattage, but it looks cool! Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > On Sun, 16 Aug 1998 18:34:28 -0700, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > [snip] > >1. Get a wire that has a resistance of, say, 10 ohms. > >2. With A attached to the wire, only 1A can get through, with B > >attached, the 1uA can get through. > >3. Connect power supply B to the wire, and run 10kV 1uA through the > >wire. > >4. Connect power supply A to the wire, and run it's 10V 10A through the > >wire. (B is still running) > > > >The total voltage across the wire is about 10.01kV. I=E/R, so > > If the total voltage across the wire is still supposed to be 10 kV, > then you would appear to have connected the power supplies in > parallel. However in this case, the low voltage supply will short the > high voltage supply, and the total voltage across the wire will still > probably only be about 10 V. > [snip] > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 16 23:43:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21911; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:42:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:42:56 -0700 Message-ID: <35D7D123.33AA0E55@datacomm.ch> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:43:47 +0200 From: Felix Meyer Reply-To: hb9abx@datacomm.ch Organization: hb9abx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: CONFUSION: HV and high amps References: <199808151649.JAA29958@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <35D788A4.52D0@sunherald.infi.net> <35db9ad2.97878146@mail-hub> <35D8C784.C7559FF6@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gtOsA1.0.HM5.l3zrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5661 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > > [snip] > > >1. Get a wire that has a resistance of, say, 10 ohms. > > >2. With A attached to the wire, only 1A can get through, with B > > >attached, the 1uA can get through. > > >3. Connect power supply B to the wire, and run 10kV 1uA through the > > >wire. > > >4. Connect power supply A to the wire, and run it's 10V 10A through the > > >wire. (B is still running) > > > > > >The total voltage across the wire is about 10.01kV. I=E/R, so ... ... snip Hi all, I am totally confused with the 2 power supplies. A real discussion in a verbal way without a diagram seems to me impossible. - Please draw a diagram how the 2 power supplies are interconnected and where are the measuring instruments ??? And attach the diagram to the message. Many thanks Felix From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 17 00:45:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA04681; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 00:43:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 00:43:57 -0700 Message-ID: <003c01bdc9b2$cac7df20$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Transformers Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:42:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"G1n0_.0.-81.yyzrr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5662 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All The field inside the core (in the hole) of a toroidal transformer can be easily demonstrated by the following fact: If you mount a toroidal tranformfer using a conductive screw, shorting either side of the screw (crocodile clip lead to either end of the screw), the screw will in effect become a shorted single secondary turn (and heat up the transformer). An ammeter in series with the screw would let you see how much current is being induced. If you try this, try wrapping the croc clip lead around the outside of the transformer so no current can be induced in this. This would in effect be less than one turn. Induction furnaces and cookers work the same. Its just a large coil with space inside to put what you wish to melt. Large currents are induced in anything conductive within the coil, melting them very nicely (and efficiently) There should be a difference in efficiency between the types of transformer. (E-I) transormers leak more flux than a toriodal (due to corners on the magnetic circuit). Also, E-I transformers don't work very well until you close the magnetic circuit by adding the 'I' section. With a toriodal transformer, the primary usually envelopes the secondary, meaning that 100% of the secondary is contained within the field. I stand by my original argument to Butch that it is the field OUTSIDE the core itself that induces power. The toroidal shape and high 'mu' cores are used to contain the field within the dimensions of the device itself, not within the physical core material. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk -----Original Message----- From: dave dameron >This is one reason claimed why, for example Gramme motors aren't used >anymore. I would be interested if you can think of any way to test this. >Haven't figured out any transformer winding which, with load, isn't an >integer number of turns. >If this theory was correct, would there be a difference between a "core" and >"shell" (E-I) type of transformer? A cup core type where 100% of the >conductor is encircled? >-Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 17 08:27:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15066; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:22:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:22:46 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bdc9f2$e2bf5320$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: HV and high amps Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:13:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"6dYBd1.0.Kh3.6h4sr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5663 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Could you show me how to connect the supplies to achieve what you say below? Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk -----Original Message----- From: John Berry > There is also a way to connect two power supplies >together so the amperage and voltage will add, two of 500v @10amps >(5000watts x2 = 10000watts) can be put together to read 1000v @ 20 amps >(20000 watts) , however you don't really have twice the wattage, but it >looks cool! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 17 13:27:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23796; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:23:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:23:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:24:01 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HV and high amps In-Reply-To: <35D5C686.39A7@sunherald.infi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TVEUE3.0.ep5.m49sr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5664 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > The experiment Charles Wilde posted about the high voltage ad high > amperage got me to thinking about something a friend mentioned. If the > total current that can pass through a wire is equal to E/R, then what > happens if you run HV through a wire, and then run low voltage high > current through the same wire. Will the wire be able to pass higher > current than normal, since the HV is present? Sounds simple enough to > try. This is how vacuum tubes work, although in that case the "wire" is a cloud of electrons rather than a metal. It's also how FETs work. If your "wire" was a piece of properly doped silicon, then your experiment would definitely work. The current in silicon behaves like a flow of compressible gas, and high voltage can push it around. This supposedly does not work for metals, where the current behaves like a flow of nearly-incompressible liquid. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 17 14:33:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14678; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:19:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:19:01 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:17:48 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: (Butch) elliptical flux splitting design on site Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"on1oo1.0.Eb3.4v9sr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5665 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all, I have updated my web site with the new upgrade of the off-set rotor design. It is the first drawing on the site. Comments welcome, to list or direct. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 17 15:25:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13426; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:16:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:16:20 -0700 Message-ID: <35D858F5.33CF@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:23:24 +0000 From: "J. Thomas Andrew" Reply-To: jtandrew@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, rife-list@eskimo.com, list@oxytherapy.com, silver-list@eskimo.com, "magna-pak@lonet.ca" , Kurush K Mistry , Fred Walter , Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Re: Water References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dVIhP.0.fH3.pkAsr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5666 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca wrote: > > Recently, I picked up a magazine called "Lifestyle and wellness". In the > Summer 98 issue distributed mainly in the Toronto area and Canada > (416-492-6598). There is an interesting article on Water and health. In the > article some researchers claim that IR absorption of water changes when > exposed to magnetic energy and also when held by healers and others > depending on their state of mind etc. They also refer to work of Water > Sciences Research in Dallas Texas (972-682-9162). Has anyone heard of their > work? > > This would be a good way to corroborate Davis and Rawls work which showed > that surface tension of water increased with north pole and decreased with > south pole treated water. > > I am planning to build a simple IR LED and photo cell set up to do my own > experiments. But am still confused as to what all this means. Is low > surface tension water more healthy? Or the high surface tension north pole > water better? In my experience the this tastes much better than the south > pole water. Specifically what type of water would enhance antioxidant > qualities? I am getting to the point that ozonized water may be the only > definitive way to go - but it tastes like Hydrogen peroxide! > > I have been interested in water for a long time but keep getting mixed > messages in regard to health benefits of various treatments of water? Then > there is the potential and question for energy generation from different > types of water electrolysis?? Dose anyone know of a good book in this > subject. Christopher Bird was writing one - but his untimely and most > unfortunate death disrupted that project. I believe his wife was to > complete it and publish it - but have not heard nothing. > > Chris Gupta Chris-- Check out a guy named Dr. Patrick Flanagan--an inventor and child prodigy. Has spent 20 years studying water--after taking on the ongoing project of 30 previous years from Dr.Coanda. In short, negatively ionized water is most healthy. Low surface tension is better than high--something around 45 dynes per cm is the same as water in the cells of the body. The present of high levels of ionized hydrogen is a powerful antioxidant and does not break down into its own free radical when it gives up an electron as with other antioxidants. Do a search on flanagan's name or "Microhydrin" or "Neurophone" to follow quite a number of interesting threads related to this topic. Also try http://www.electriciti.com/explore/Articles/Beck/HIVArticle.html Interesting stuff, if true--perhaps the guy is another Tesla, eh? JTA From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 17 17:31:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27607; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:20:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:20:52 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <6c5451d0.35d8c8a6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:19:48 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: BUTCH'S WEB ADDRESS URL (I did it again) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"bMzjI2.0.Bl6.aZCsr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5667 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-08-17 19:14:48 EDT, you write: << Butch, I lost your URL and I can't go there to see your site Update. Could you please reply this Email and send me your Site address. Also, it would be a good idea to include your site's URL in your signature file. Best Regards, >> Sorry, but I did it again, I've got to slow down, my URL is, http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 17 17:32:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA32450; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:27:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:27:28 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <7db9d935.35d8ca24@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:26:11 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: newman-l@emachine.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: (Butch) Elliptical flux splitting design on site Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Resent-Message-ID: <"roIsZ3.0.qw7.lfCsr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5668 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all, I have updated my web site with the new upgrade of the off-set rotor design. It is the first drawing on the site. Comments welcome, to list or direct. Thanks, Butch LaFonte http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 17 18:04:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18836; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:58:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:58:42 -0700 Message-ID: <35D9DCDA.3473DCAC@ihug.co.nz> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:58:20 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HV and high amps References: <000001bdc9f2$e2bf5320$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xsvBj.0.9c4.17Dsr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5669 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You put a diode and battery in parallel, You may want to have a resistor is series with the battery, they you add another diode battery thing is series, it may be a bit less that double amps because some of the current of battery 1 may flow through battery 2 and visa versa (and versa visa) but the resistor will cut this down to a minimum. ___+battery-___ I I I I -------diode<---------diode<----------- I I I____+battery-___I David Callaghan wrote: > John > > Could you show me how to connect the supplies to achieve what you say below? > > Best regards > > David Callaghan > DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Berry > > > There is also a way to connect two power supplies > >together so the amperage and voltage will add, two of 500v @10amps > >(5000watts x2 = 10000watts) can be put together to read 1000v @ 20 amps > >(20000 watts) , however you don't really have twice the wattage, but it > >looks cool! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 17 18:50:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03961; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:47:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:47:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199808180148.VAA24037@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: HV and high amps Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 07:57:52 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BKnf21.0.mz.nqDsr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5670 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Undoubtably John you have taken keyboard technology to a new state of art, do you mind if I copy it? : Just a joke from grubdog. ---------- > From: John Berry > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: HV and high amps > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 2:58 PM > > You put a diode and battery in parallel, You may want to have a resistor is > series with the battery, they you add another diode battery thing is series, it > may be a bit less that double amps because some of the current of battery 1 may > flow through battery 2 and visa versa (and versa visa) but the resistor will cut > this down to a minimum. > > ___+battery-___ > I I > I I > -------diode<---------diode<----------- > I I > I____+battery-___I > > David Callaghan wrote: > > > John > > > > Could you show me how to connect the supplies to achieve what you say below? > > > > Best regards > > > > David Callaghan > > DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Berry > > > > > There is also a way to connect two power supplies > > >together so the amperage and voltage will add, two of 500v @10amps > > >(5000watts x2 = 10000watts) can be put together to read 1000v @ 20 amps > > >(20000 watts) , however you don't really have twice the wattage, but it > > >looks cool! > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 17 21:03:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21031; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:55:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:55:43 -0700 Message-ID: <35D8FAF7.6A75@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:54:31 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, MRiversong@earthlink.net Subject: What happened to ITS? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Suk6L1.0.W85.-iFsr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5671 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Does anyone know what happened to the International Tesla Society's web site at http://www.tesla.org ?? I've tried the site now for the past week with no results, says it 'does not have a DNS entry'. I know they are having hard times financially since Christmas and I understand they had to stop publishing their ITS journal. Michael Riversong wrote saying; > Hi Jerry -- > Just got off the phone with J.W. He wanted me to e-mail you > with the following items: > Please construct a link from your site to the Tesla site > conference info. > The address is http://www.tesla.org/event.html > -- Michael Riversong > P.O. Box 2775, Cheyenne, Wyoming 82003 ** (307)635-0900 > Professional Harpist > Author of > MRiversong@earthlink.net -- http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong ============== If you know where the site is now, could you please pass it on as I'd like to put in a link to help advertise their conference. If you can please try to attend to help them out. Just one group after another closing up or inventors dying...we need to get on the ball and make something happen...I've got a project in the works so we'll see if that works out...thanks for any help you can provide to ITS, whether it be the URL or attending their conference...they are non-profit so sell books and can take donations if you can't make the conference... -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 17 21:09:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA02220; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: "'jdecker@keelynet.com'" , KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, MRiversong@earthlink.net Subject: RE: What happened to ITS? Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:10:07 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"Wk9EC2.0.ZY.btFsr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5672 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: According to InterNIC, the "tesla.org" domain name is "on hold". Probably non-payment of annual registration fee, but could be a domain name dispute. See: http://rs.internic.net/cgi-bin/whois?tesla.org. Charles From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 17 21:15:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01387; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:11:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:11:48 -0700 Message-ID: <35D8FDF3.708FA343@darknet.net> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:07:15 -0400 From: Steve Organization: DarkNet Online/Digital Fusion X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "keelynet@DallasTexas.net" , Freenrg-l Subject: Re: What happened to ITS? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1OxKl2.0.GL.3yFsr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5673 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Charles Wilde wrote: > > According to InterNIC, the "tesla.org" domain name is "on hold". > Probably non-payment of annual registration fee, but could be a domain > name dispute. See: http://rs.internic.net/cgi-bin/whois?tesla.org. Hi all, Starting in 1996 I was the webmaster for a large Coldwell Banker office, located in Florida. I registered a domain name in October 1996, and had hosted at the same provider as my site, darknet.net. When they moved their site to the main coldwell banker site, I still had the domain, and was paying for it each month.. I had the tech guy at my provider set something up so they weren't hosting it anymore, therefore I wasn't paying for it anymore, but the domain was still there. That's what I was told is "putting the domain on hold".. the domain is there, but there's no server for it. As for the cause being non-payment or a name dispute, I have no knowledge of whether those would cause the name to go on hold, but it's likely.. ttyl -Steve -- darklord@darknet.net | UIN: 5113616 DarkNet Online: http://www.darknet.net Digital Fusion: http://www.darknet.net/fusion From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 17 21:29:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09049; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:24:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:24:16 -0700 Message-ID: <35D901F1.30D@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 23:24:17 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve CC: "keelynet@DallasTexas.net" , Freenrg-l Subject: Re: What happened to ITS? References: <35D8FDF3.708FA343@darknet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xxsNM3.0.9D2.l7Gsr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5674 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Charles & Steve et al! That makes sense Steve and thanks Charles for posting that url. They probably couldn't pay for their server though the name is still valid. I'll give J.W. a call and see what we can do to help...they need that site! I know J.W. doesn't have a clue on computers......perhaps they have all their files and such saved so it could be moved over to another server or paid for on the one they used to have. J.W. said there was a problem with the finances when some checks were written by certain parties for personal expenses....by the time it was discovered, rent and other bills were past due...he was really worried about folding...that was when I first heard of it around Christmas...that's when Joe Champion said he'd just 'made' $78,000.00 in alchemical gold so I asked if he could donate $5,000 or so to them. He had done so a couple of years before but declined this time. At any rate, they sure could use some help. I don't know how much it keeps to make the place run, and I know they sell memberships, subscriptions and books, but they also have rent, utilities, insurance and such, possibly one or two salaries...I just don't know...anyway, thanks again for the insights...I'll pass on what I find... -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 18 01:27:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21448; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 01:24:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 01:24:14 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980818175333.00808300@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:53:33 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re:Searl Effect and Hubbard Amplifying Transformer at Solaris site. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Ot6WM.0._E5.jeJsr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5675 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! >The following may be of some interest to those on this newsgroup. I afraid they take while to download due to large amount of phots and Diagrams. Searl articles can be found by using the following URL http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/Searl.html http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/Searl2.html http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/hubbard.html If you have some feedback on whats here I would be interested Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 18 21:29:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08652; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:28:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:28:13 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808190429.VAA27788@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re:Searl Effect and Hubbard Amplifying Transformer at Solaris site. Resent-Message-ID: <"sMklm3.0.672.SHbsr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5676 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Geoff and all, I started reading the hubbard article. At 05:53 PM 8/18/98 +0900, you wrote: >Hi! >>The following may be of some interest to those on this newsgroup. > >I afraid they take while to download due to large amount of phots and >Diagrams. > >Searl articles can be found by using the following URL > >http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/Searl.html > >http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/Searl2.html > >http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/hubbard.html > > Unfortunately it seems to suffer from the "secrecy" syndrome. The Dr. Smith who examined it said he "declines to reveal anything." It said other devices were similar, could that be the Coler device, for example? It also mentioned a "Natural magnetic frequency" of 2.8000 GHz. Natural for what? I doubt this could be measured in 1919, so must have been in 1956 when the article was written. It does look like an interesting device, but have no idea of its operation. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 18 21:50:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA22032; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:49:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:49:18 -0700 Message-ID: <35DA595A.CD47C249@bway.net> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 00:49:30 -0400 From: Khem Caigan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Freenrg-L (E-Mail)" Subject: Schematics freeware Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cPsMB3.0.9O5.Dbbsr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5677 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Listers- Just found a freeware program for electronic diagrams, called "DesignWorks Lite". You can pick up a copy at the following URL: http://www.capilano.com/html/dw_lite_home.shtml -Khem Caigan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 18 21:59:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25300; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:55:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:55:36 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:28:39 -0700 Subject: Re: (Butch) Elliptical flux splitting design on site Message-ID: <19980818.212850.10054.2.tv@juno.com> References: <7db9d935.35d8ca24@aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-5,7,10-22,24-30 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"tnIqD1.0.9B6.8hbsr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5678 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Butch, Thank you also for posting your ideas on the Web. I can appreciate the work it takes. You ideas really get me thinking. I once made some coated iron wire with enamel I got from a motor shop. I was tring an experiment along the lines of Hans Coler. I wanted the winding to not interfere with the magnetic flux path like you are trying to do. I could not file square wire though. Please keep us posted. Thanks, Tim ( tv@juno.com ) On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:26:11 EDT HLafonte@aol.com writes: >To all, >I have updated my web site with the new upgrade of the off-set rotor >design. It is the first drawing on the site. Comments welcome, to list or >direct. >Thanks, >Butch LaFonte >http://members.aol.com/HLafonte/lafonteresearchsite1.html > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 19 19:51:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17021; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:43:35 -0700 (PDT) X-AirNote: 1 X-AIGTO: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <01BDCBBA.5FD21140@56K-101.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> From: ZPE To: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" , "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" , "'keelynet@dallastexas.net'" , "'editor@infinite-energy.com'" , "'haisch@starspot.com'" , "'halfox@slkc.uswest.net'" To: "'ine@padrak.com'" , "'mica@world.std.com'" , "'paynen@tesla.org'" Subject: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to Disclosure.....10...... Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:12:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id TAA16874 Resent-Message-ID: <"Q5DFr1.0.o94.Crusr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5679 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greetings to all new energy pioneers, The time has come to make an announcement that many of you have been waiting to hear for a great many years. While full disclosure will not take place until 10 weeks have passed from the date of this announcement, this is the first of a series of messages to prepare each of you for our final and complete disclosure and to make a final appeal to potential financial partners. ANNOUNCING... The secrets of thermodynamic phenomenon known as the "vortex" have been discovered, its mysteries have been solved and the technology that will utilize it to produce useable amounts of energy has been identified. For details, visit our new web site created for this announcement: http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 19 20:36:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA27709; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35DCA1E3.FF6@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:23:31 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Test Ignore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ujmbL1.0.rm6.LZvsr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5680 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 19 21:38:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01842; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:36:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:36:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199808200335.XAA26425@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , , "'keelynet@dallastexas.net'" , "'editor@infinite-energy.com'" , "'haisch@starspot.com'" , "'halfox@slkc.uswest.net'" , "'ine@padrak.com'" , "'mica@world.std.com'" , "'paynen@tesla.org'" Subject: All Quiet at the Western Front Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 02:41:38 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_eqD21.0.5R.mUwsr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5681 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vortexian action has not yet been observed in the trenches. However we stand ready for all potential actions. We suspect the action of a 90 degree movement and all appropriate reserves have been placed on a ready status. ---------- > From: ZPE > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; freenrg-l@eskimo.com; 'keelynet@dallastexas.net'; 'editor@infinite-energy.com'; 'haisch@starspot.com'; 'halfox@slkc.uswest.net'; 'ine@padrak.com'; 'mica@world.std.com'; 'paynen@tesla.org' > Subject: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to Disclosure.....10...... > Date: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 8:12 PM > > Greetings to all new energy pioneers, > > The time has come to make an announcement that many of you have been waiting to hear for a great many years. While full disclosure will not take place until 10 weeks have passed from the date of this announcement, this is the first of a series of messages to prepare each of you for our final and complete disclosure and to make a final appeal to potential financial partners. > > ANNOUNCING... > The secrets of thermodynamic phenomenon known as the "vortex" have been discovered, its mysteries have been solved and the technology that will utilize it to produce useable amounts of energy has been identified. > > For details, visit our new web site created for this announcement: http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 20 05:10:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA23032; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 05:07:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 05:07:17 -0700 Message-ID: <001001bdcc33$0b10f120$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to Disclosure.....10...... Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:06:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"iZgUl2.0.jd5.q51tr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5682 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All What do you think about this? (see subject) I did a search on 'vortex tubes' on Yahoo and found lots of information on them. They are interesting but the operation seems quite simple to me. I wonder if the purported device works along the same lines. Have there been other 'discoveries' such as this that promise to release information, then simply disapear? Any economists wish to theorise what would happen to the world economy if FREE-NRG becomes a reality? Can anyone find the origin of the message? PS Everyone is quiet at the moment, or I'm not receiving my messages. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 20 06:56:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA19114; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 06:53:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 06:53:26 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to Disclosure.....10... ... Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 06:59:46 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"k7Kqw1.0.ag4.Lf2tr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5683 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My first impression: don't put your life on hold for 10 weeks! Charles From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 20 07:56:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07623; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:54:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:54:39 -0700 X-AirNote: 1 X-AIGTO: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <01BDCC21.19284AE0@56K-101.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> From: ZPE To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , "'DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk'" Subject: RE: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to Disclosure.....10...... Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:58:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDCC21.193172A0" Resent-Message-ID: <"6i9Tg.0.rs1.kY3tr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5684 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDCC21.193172A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr. Callaghan, Got your messages and will reply soon. Right now we are wading through a ton of e-mail. 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AABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEmACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEA AAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAOl1 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDCC21.193172A0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 20 07:56:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07808; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:55:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:55:00 -0700 Message-ID: <19980820145822.608.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:58:22 -0700 (PDT) From: mr mojo Subject: Re: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to Disclosure.....10...... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"6SstE3.0.vv1.3Z3tr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5685 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It looks a possible scam. they are looking for $$$$ with out a working model. While the vortex tube will generate a hot and cold stream of air, I think that if an energy balance is done you will find that you get less out than you put in.. Unless of course a "new design" does something different. I'll tune back in 10 weeks and see what happens.. Any one hear from Mr. Watson lately???? ---ZPE wrote: > > Greetings to all new energy pioneers, > > The time has come to make an announcement that many of you have been waiting to hear for a great many years. While full disclosure will not take place until 10 weeks have passed from the date of this announcement, this is the first of a series of messages to prepare each of you for our final and complete disclosure and to make a final appeal to potential financial partners. > > ANNOUNCING... > The secrets of thermodynamic phenomenon known as the "vortex" have been discovered, its mysteries have been solved and the technology that will utilize it to produce useable amounts of energy has been identified. > > For details, visit our new web site created for this announcement: http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 20 08:13:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15338; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:10:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:10:13 -0700 X-AirNote: 1 X-AIGTO: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <01BDCC23.45370FC0@56K-101.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> From: ZPE To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , "'Charles Wilde'" Subject: RE: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to Disclosure.....10...... Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:10:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDCC23.45403780" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZcrXb.0.Zl3.Kn3tr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5686 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDCC23.45403780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not sure what you mean. Best Wishes, ZPE http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe -----Original Message----- From: Charles Wilde [SMTP:charles.wilde@aton.com] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 9:00 AM To: 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com' Subject: RE: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to Disclosure.....10...... My first impression: don't put your life on hold for 10 weeks! 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AAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEeACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBIgAgg BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4ASYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA ADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAwRg= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDCC23.45403780-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 20 08:29:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23566; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:27:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:27:31 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to Disclosure.....10... ... Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:33:54 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"czGu73.0.6m5.Y14tr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5687 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To rephrase. My first impression: Continue on with work on other approaches to practical use of ZPE as if this announcement was not made. Until full disclosure is made, and the experiment or process has been widely duplicated with indisputable results, this announcement has no more merit than any of the many other unproven announcements or theories on use of ZPE. Best Wishes, Charles > -----Original Message----- > From: zpe@pdq.net [mailto:zpe@pdq.net] > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 8:10 AM > To: 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'; Charles Wilde > Subject: RE: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to > Disclosure.....10...... > > I'm not sure what you mean. > > Best Wishes, > ZPE > http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Wilde [SMTP:charles.wilde@aton.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 9:00 AM > To: 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com' > Subject: RE: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to > Disclosure.....10...... > > My first impression: don't put your life on hold for 10 weeks! > > Charles From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 20 09:42:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20509; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:40:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:40:21 -0700 Message-ID: <002901bdcc59$30431420$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to Disclosure.....10...... Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:39:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"3r_BW3.0.F05.p55tr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5688 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Normal vortex tubes are about 5% efficient I think. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk -----Original Message----- From: mr mojo >While the vortex tube will generate a hot and cold stream of air, I >think that if an energy balance is done you will find that you get >less out than you put in.. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 20 11:44:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08503; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:42:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:42:48 -0700 X-AirNote: 1 X-AIGTO: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <01BDCC40.F6323260@56K-101.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> From: ZPE To: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" , "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , "'keelynet@dallastexas.net'" , "'editor@infinite-energy.com'" , "'haisch@starspot.com'" , "'halfox@slkc.uswest.net'" To: "'ine@padrak.com'" , "'mica@world.std.com'" , "'paynen@tesla.org'" Subject: UPDATED web site - VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:45:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA08449 Resent-Message-ID: <"zQTVe2.0.b42.cu6tr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5689 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I've received tremendous response to my announcement and we are currently processing these responses as quickly as possible. After reviewing many, several legitimate concerns have been raised. Ultimately, I plan to address all of them both individually and globally through updates to our web site. The first one we have addressed is the issue of economic impacts of a new energy technology. Please revisit our site and find (Control+F) the phrase " Minimizing Negative Economic Impacts". There you will find the key points to our answer on this critical issue. Best Wishes, ZPE http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 20 22:40:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00603; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:39:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:39:18 -0700 Message-Id: <35DD082E.7216B34C@ens.ascom.ch> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:39:58 +0200 From: Korfmacher Christian Reply-To: korfmach@ens.ascom.ch Organization: Ascom Business Systems AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [de] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: UPDATED web site - VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED References: <01BDCC40.F6323260@56K-101.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RHY_W.0.L9.5WGtr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5690 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ZPE wrote: > > I've received tremendous response to my announcement and we are currently processing these responses as quickly as possible. After reviewing many, several legitimate concerns have been raised. Ultimately, I plan to address all of them both individual ly and globally through updates to our web site. The first one we have addressed is the issue of economic impacts of a new energy technology. Please revisit our site and find (Control+F) the phrase " Minimizing Negative Economic Impacts". There you wil l find the key points to our answer on this critical issue. > > Best Wishes, > ZPE > http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe I read it. This is not a viable path! Make the rich richer and the poor poorer. If you should succeed in free energy vortex technology you will not be able to disclose the technology by any means. Since you already published on the internet, and the americans in general, the internet community and especially the free energy community are very suspicious about conspiracy in any form, you will be unable to set up such a thing as A realistic example of this would be to produce and sell compressed air "on-tap" to electric power companies. Electricity would continue to be produced and sold as usual but a new source of less expensive "fuel" will have become available to the electric power market. The economic impact will be enormous, but the ecological impact will be much more threatening. Imagine 1.5 billion chinese and about 5 billion other people having free energy for whatever they want, mobility, production, air conditioning and so on. Everytime we convert energy we have losses in the form of heat! So we accelerate the heating up of the atmosphere but on the other hand there would be less burning of fossile fuels. Which effect will be stronger? So I'll wait and see the things to come. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 20 23:08:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA08279; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 23:04:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 23:04:58 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: UPDATED web site - VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 06:05:47 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35e30db6.455073283@mail-hub> References: <01BDCC40.F6323260@56K-101.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> <35DD082E.7216B34C@ens.ascom.ch> In-Reply-To: <35DD082E.7216B34C@ens.ascom.ch> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OSBG63.0.G12.9uGtr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5691 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:39:58 +0200, Korfmacher Christian wrote: [snip] >production, air conditioning and so on. Everytime we convert energy we >have losses in the form of heat! So we accelerate the heating up of the >atmosphere but on the other hand there would be less burning of fossile >fuels. Which effect will be stronger? My guess is that removal of the CO2 will have 10 to 20 times the impact of the energy consumption. > >So I'll wait and see the things to come. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 21 00:50:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28359; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:49:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:49:32 -0700 Message-ID: <00b601bdccd8$35b07180$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: UPDATED web site - VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 08:48:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"N3LCk2.0.xw6.BQItr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5692 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I would be interested in Jerry W Decker or Bill B's comments on this topic Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 21 01:12:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA31738; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 01:10:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 01:10:36 -0700 Message-ID: <00c701bdccdb$1bcbff20$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: "ZPE Investors" , Subject: Re: UPDATED web site - VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:09:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"4bq5O3.0.pl7.xjItr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5693 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ZPE Could you answer this question? In Fluid Dynamics: With conditions close to local thermodynamic equilibrium, would the pressure tensor be isotropic? Can you show the integral equation to describe the pressure tensor (including volume element and surface element)? I apologise for the questions, but answering them would prove knowledge of CFD to our list. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 21 10:47:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00645; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:45:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:45:37 -0700 Message-ID: <025901bdcd22$dfdb1120$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: UPDATED web site - VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:43:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"X9zK72.0.p9.09Rtr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5694 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi ALL! I have compared the writing style from the ZPE web site and various messages from ZPE against all the mails I have stored on my PC. My writing analysis software immediately picked many of the mails from one person as being a (collective) 93% match for text written by the alias ZPE. The next closest match was 72%. More text would give more accurate results. If ZPE is who I think he is, I would SERIOUSLY doubt that he would be playing a joke. However, I will respect his wishes for now and not reveal who I think he is. Even though I have more evidence pointing towards this person, I'm probably wrong anyway. Best Wishes, David Callaghan PS. This message comes up with a 90% match, and I can guarantee it's not ME... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 21 11:20:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27184; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:17:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:17:29 -0700 Message-ID: <35DDB8AC.21ACA79@datacomm.ch> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:13:00 +0200 From: Felix Meyer Reply-To: hb9abx@datacomm.ch Organization: hb9abx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Attachment not possible ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mi_Ch1.0.fe6.ucRtr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5695 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Now I tried several times to send a message with attached GIF-image to the freenrg-l but this message never appeared. Is this not possible ? Thanks for info Felix From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 21 15:46:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA30795; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:39:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:39:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: sh.diac.com: ekwall2 owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:34:17 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: UPDATED web site - VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED In-Reply-To: <025901bdcd22$dfdb1120$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uGYGq1.0.0X7.kSVtr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5696 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, David Callaghan wrote: -snip- My writing analysis software immediately picked many of the mails from one person as being a (collective) 93% match for text written by the alias ZPE. The next closest match was 72%. More text would give more accurate results. If ZPE is who I think he is, I would SERIOUSLY doubt that he would be playing a joke. --------------- Hi David, Good news indeed: (for the just curious mindless like me*:). My Hunt is "OFF", being security minded though and a former assembler language programer: shows in my writing style -eh? : I too suggest we just wait. (we have so far! I'm not holding my breath, but I am crossing my fingers for all of us:) -snip- However, I will respect his wishes for now and not reveal who I think he is. Even though I have more evidence pointing towards this person, I'm probably wrong anyway. Best Wishes, David Callaghan PS. This message comes up with a 90% match, and I can guarantee it's not ME... ----------------- NEED New Software? (just kidding:) Some times it is good however, if the 'good-guys' plug the holes before the 'bad-guys' slip through. Best to all -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 21 16:20:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28308; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:17:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:17:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35DDEE96.E9663A47@harti.com> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 00:03:03 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: Back from visiting the inventor ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Z4oMT2.0.Ew6.O0Wtr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5697 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I just came back from visiting the inventor of the gravitational converter in Munich , Germany. http://www.overunity.com/gb In this moment the device is in a storage location and still has to be readjusted to be able to rotate again as a selfrunner. It had already worked for 4 months contineously told me the inventor. In about 2 to 3 weeks it will be brought to a different loaction, where it will be adjusted and resetup again, so all weights will be again in the right position to be able to show the selfrunner effect. But the main principle I could view ! While the whole cylinder body with the water is going down, the water inside and the other weights go up and shift the center of mass up, so it could rotate when it is all adjusted right ! This I have viewed and it looks amazing ! There must still be some errors in conventional theory or this device uses the hydrostatic paradoxon to rotate as a selfrunner... I will soon put up a RealVideo clip of the device I filmed on the storage location and also will upload a 3D Studio animation a friend of mine has done of it. I also have got a copy of the German television show "Fliege" from the 16th of March this year, where the device was shown. BTW, the inventor also had fought about a few years like Joe Newman for a patent, but all 7 or 8 times he inquired for a patent it was rejected.... Also he was was thrown out of the Technical University of Munich, cause some profressors have seen the selfrunner and some not and there was a big dispute from the believers who had seen it versus the "non-believers", who had not yet seen it.... This reminded me of many simular events with the Joe Newman case... Anyway, the principle works and it can be scaled up to MegaWatts, if it is build big enough. It is a real breakthrough machine, I bet and I will start posting much more about it in the next few days... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 21 17:06:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA31410; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:58:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:58:44 -0700 X-AirNote: 1 X-AIGTO: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <01BDCD14.903D0500@56K-008.MaxTNT4.pdq.net> From: ZPE To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , "'korfmach@ens.ascom.ch'" Subject: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED - reply to Korfmacher Christian Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:01:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA30958 Resent-Message-ID: <"gsV7_1.0.vf7.icWtr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5698 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Korfmacher Christian, I am at a loss (and somewhat hurt) as to how you would think my suggestion of one of possibly many ways to SAFELY market a new energy technology comprises a "conspiracy". If it is at all possible to SAFELY market our technology by direct sales of on-site power generators, fuel-less compressed air driven automobiles, machinery and the like, then, by all means, we will do so. At this point in time, we do not see that as a realistic possibility in the very near future but we will continually make every att empt to push for this type of marketing strategy as quickly as possible. The ONLY driving factor is how a particular strategy will affect the economy and stock markets. I would not be able to sleep at night if our company's actions were the cause of a m ajor economic upheaval where ordinary people such as you and I and their families lost their jobs and/or their savings. I couldn't care less about what happens to the personal fortunes of today's oil tycoons and filthy rich stock market investors. I DO care about its affect on the stock markets in general simply because any large instability there would trickle down to the middle class. While we plan to make money and lots of it, our plans include doing it in a way that is beneficial for everyone. Cho osing a marketing strategy will not be a simple process because all the various complex factors must be considered, but I can assure you our motives are as pure as anyone's. I plan to modify my website soon based on the issues raised in your comments. I believe you will like the changes. Best Wishes, ZPE http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe -----Original Message----- From: Korfmacher Christian [SMTP:korfmach@ens.ascom.ch] Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 12:40 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: UPDATED web site - VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED ZPE wrote: > > I've received tremendous response to my announcement and we are currently processing these responses as quickly as possible. After reviewing many, several legitimate concerns have been raised. Ultimately, I plan to address all of them both individual ly and globally through updates to our web site. The first one we have addressed is the issue of economic impacts of a new energy technology. Please revisit our site and find (Control+F) the phrase " Minimizing Negative Economic Impacts". There you wil l find the key points to our answer on this critical issue. > > Best Wishes, > ZPE > http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe I read it. This is not a viable path! Make the rich richer and the poor poorer. If you should succeed in free energy vortex technology you will not be able to disclose the technology by any means. Since you already published on the internet, and the americans in general, the internet community and especially the free energy community are very suspicious about conspiracy in any form, you will be unable to set up such a thing as A realistic example of this would be to produce and sell compressed air "on-tap" to electric power companies. Electricity would continue to be produced and sold as usual but a new source of less expensive "fuel" will have become available to the electric power market. The economic impact will be enormous, but the ecological impact will be much more threatening. Imagine 1.5 billion chinese and about 5 billion other people having free energy for whatever they want, mobility, production, air conditioning and so on. Everytime we convert energy we have losses in the form of heat! So we accelerate the heating up of the atmosphere but on the other hand there would be less burning of fossile fuels. Which effect will be stronger? So I'll wait and see the things to come. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 21 18:52:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21650; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:50:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:50:05 -0700 Message-ID: <000101bdcd6e$bde8f720$a2ec060c@davelook> From: "davelook" To: "FREE ENERGY" Subject: Fw: Joe Newman's Magic Motor Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:15:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"SYbkb.0.AI5.CFYtr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5699 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >This is interesting. (Well, at least to me.) > >Joe Newman is an insane yet brilliant inventor who is currently at my >mother-in-law's house working on his latest magic motor which puts out >more energy than it takes in. I know that's impossible - that's his >claim though. > >Joe Newman has an interesting past. I wish I had some links to some >info. If someone else does though, please post them. I know that >he's an inventor from Mississippi (oxymoron?). I think he invented >those bar bells that have concrete inside plastic sheaths. Anyways, >he has been working on these motors for quite some time now. My >step-father-in-law is a mechanical engineer who tried to debunk him >and became a believer, albeit grudgingly. Newman has also converted >at least one researcher from MIT who he's currently suing for stealing >his ideas. Mr Newman is incredibly paranoid. > >I say that Mr. Newman is insane because he claims that Ronald Reagan >and George Bush are both demonically possessed and he's running for >president on the platform that he'll declare martial law and return >the country to his wacko religious ideal. > >He does have some interest though in the demonstration he's planning >for next weekend (or the one after that). He has patents for this >motor in Mexico (ooh!) and some countries in Europe and maybe Japan. >He has investors coming from China, Germany and several here in the US >to see his demonstration. > >He's going to hook this thing up (it's initially powered by 4 lantern >batteries) to generator (I don't know how) which will power a house >all day long. It sounds nuts, and I'm sure it is, but it's >interesting and he's at my in-laws house. > >Joe also has a weekly radio show in Phoenix, AZ where he talks about >physics and electronics and his nutso religious stuff. > >If I can find some links to his web site I'll post them, and I'll keep >everyone informed about the demo. He claims this device will power >your house for 4 years without having to replace the batteries. I do >know that the motor was running in their garage the other day. > >He's nuts, but he's fun. > > > > > > > >== >---------------------- >Terry Donaghe >Pancritical Rationalist >Transhumanist >Extropian >Libertarian >"Live free forever or die, dammit!" >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 21 19:10:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA30833; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:09:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:09:07 -0700 Message-ID: <016b01bdcd34$10408820$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: , Subject: Re: Attachment not possible ? Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:46:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"hPD4h1.0.gX7.2XYtr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5700 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Felix The message size limit is 40K, try a JPG instead. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk -----Original Message----- From: Felix Meyer >Now I tried several times to send a message >with attached GIF-image to the freenrg-l >but this message never appeared. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 21 20:09:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21339; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:07:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:07:26 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980821100922.007fec60@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:09:22 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Joe Newman's Magic Motor In-Reply-To: <000101bdcd6e$bde8f720$a2ec060c@davelook> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"v0qrU3.0.CD5.jNZtr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5701 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I captured a victum, NPC and I am taking him to COVE. It is a village North east of vesper I'll be back. Love dad At 09:15 PM 8/18/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >>This is interesting. (Well, at least to me.) >> >>Joe Newman is an insane yet brilliant inventor who is currently at my >>mother-in-law's house working on his latest magic motor which puts out >>more energy than it takes in. I know that's impossible - that's his >>claim though. >> >>Joe Newman has an interesting past. I wish I had some links to some >>info. If someone else does though, please post them. I know that >>he's an inventor from Mississippi (oxymoron?). I think he invented >>those bar bells that have concrete inside plastic sheaths. Anyways, >>he has been working on these motors for quite some time now. My >>step-father-in-law is a mechanical engineer who tried to debunk him >>and became a believer, albeit grudgingly. Newman has also converted >>at least one researcher from MIT who he's currently suing for stealing >>his ideas. Mr Newman is incredibly paranoid. >> >>I say that Mr. Newman is insane because he claims that Ronald Reagan >>and George Bush are both demonically possessed and he's running for >>president on the platform that he'll declare martial law and return >>the country to his wacko religious ideal. >> >>He does have some interest though in the demonstration he's planning >>for next weekend (or the one after that). He has patents for this >>motor in Mexico (ooh!) and some countries in Europe and maybe Japan. >>He has investors coming from China, Germany and several here in the US >>to see his demonstration. >> >>He's going to hook this thing up (it's initially powered by 4 lantern >>batteries) to generator (I don't know how) which will power a house >>all day long. It sounds nuts, and I'm sure it is, but it's >>interesting and he's at my in-laws house. >> >>Joe also has a weekly radio show in Phoenix, AZ where he talks about >>physics and electronics and his nutso religious stuff. >> >>If I can find some links to his web site I'll post them, and I'll keep >>everyone informed about the demo. He claims this device will power >>your house for 4 years without having to replace the batteries. I do >>know that the motor was running in their garage the other day. >> >>He's nuts, but he's fun. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>== >>---------------------- >>Terry Donaghe >>Pancritical Rationalist >>Transhumanist >>Extropian >>Libertarian >>"Live free forever or die, dammit!" >>_________________________________________________________ >>DO YOU YAHOO!? >>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 21 20:38:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA26170; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:27:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:27:16 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:28:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Fw: Joe Newman's Magic Motor To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980821100922.007fec60@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PBqwD.0.iO6.JgZtr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5702 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 trknute@earthlink.net wrote: > I captured a victum, NPC and I am taking him to COVE. > > It is a village North east of vesper > > > > > > I'll be back. > > > Love dad > Votsalldatden? - Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 21 22:29:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19060; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:27:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:27:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:28:19 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Robert Pavlita, psycotronic generators. (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"plPVv3.0.Zf4.2Rbtr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5703 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See below. Reply directly, since he is not on freenrg-L ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 01:18:54 -0700 From: Michael Donovan To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Robert Pavlita, psycotronic generators. I am already in touch with J.Decker (keelynet), but I am interested in finding others interested in duplicating the work of Robert Pavlita. His work is now part of a civil RICO case just filed in Norfolk, VA (2:98cv762). Case alleges government tried to stop spread of underlying knowledge of the geometry. Michael Donovan, 1508 Maury Cres. Norfolk, VA. 23509 (757) 623 7222 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 22 00:46:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA05759; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 00:43:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 00:43:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 00:44:22 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: VORTEX and inventors' disease In-Reply-To: <00b601bdccd8$35b07180$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"7gITw3.0.qP1.XQdtr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5704 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, David Callaghan wrote: > I would be interested in Jerry W Decker or Bill B's comments on this > topic I would say, try to benefit from historical hindsight. Why is there no known, replicable "free energy" device anywhere? If we assume that past discoveries were real, then it seems clear that all of them died with their inventors. A quick list from memory: Hubbard coil Hendershot device Schauberger device Moray device Sweet device Why were these "suppressed"? Inventor secrecy. Suppressed because they were discovered by inventors rather than scientists, and inventors tend to keep their discoveries secret in order to make a living from them. If an inventor fails to produce a saleable product, then the secret dies. If an inventor patents the device, then there still may be hope, but inventors sometimes hold back key secrets from patents (and obviously there is a barrier to patenting a f/e device.) Trade secrets work fine in most other areas of invention, but history shows that trade secrets are the kiss of death in the f/e arena. Not so with science, science (if it is done right) requires that the secret be released, that independent teams try to duplicate the discovery. Science progresses because discoveries are published. Yes, some scientists patent their discovery and grow wealthy. That's not my point. SCIENTISTS PUBLISH! Free energy stays in stasis because knowledge is hoarded and carefully guarded, and the synergy of multiple efforts can never occur. Anyone who makes an important discovery goes paranoid and thinks first of money and control, and any improving of the world comes second. It's called "inventors' disease." Money, control, and secrecy have an almost unbeaten record for suppressing f/e discoveries. Cold fusion is an exception, but then CF came from science, and the initial secrets were published. If this vortex discovery is real, then I predict that the inventor will find his investors, and we will never see a successful product. I say this because this is what ALWAYS has happened in the past. There have been a variety of reasons for it. Some sell their ideas and abandon the research (Hubbard). Others are threatened/paid (Hendershot). Others have endless legal battles with investors (Sweet). All fail, and it may APPEAR that evil forces have suppressed them. But the only really evil force I see throughout f/e history is inventor secrecy. Is there a way to stay secret, yet get a successful product out? Maybe. But what if there is not? What if inventor secrecy causes other factors to become unbeatable? How many lost discoveries must occur before people start to see secrecy as a problem? Eventually what will happen is that a scientist will stumble across an ou phenomenon. That scientist will publish. Others will replicate. The world will enter a new age, and the accolades will go (rightly) to science. Modern science might suffer from closemindedness and paradigm-worship, but scientists have discovered the key to progress: turning away from the secrecy which inventors cling to so fiercely. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 22 06:52:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA26639; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:51:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:51:53 -0700 Message-ID: <35DECC39.88EF8C74@harti.com> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:48:42 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: First RealVideo online of gravitational converter ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ck9Lt3.0.9W6.vpitr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5705 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, there is a first RealVideo Animation now online of the gravitational converter under: http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb01.rm you need to have at least the free RealVideo player 5.x to view it ! I uploaded also a higher res rendered picture of it at: http://www.overunity.com/gb/grend01.jpg Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 22 09:15:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20739; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:13:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:13:56 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <01BDCD14.903D0500@56K-008.MaxTNT4.pdq.net> References: Conversation <01BDCD14.903D0500@56K-008.MaxTNT4.pdq.net> with last message <01BDCD14.903D0500@56K-008.MaxTNT4.pdq.net> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "FREE ENERGY" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Mike Connolly" Subject: Re: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED - reply to Korfmacher Christian Date: Sat, 22 Aug 98 11:15:10 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wrCux.0.w35.4vktr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5706 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FWIW: my local utility (illinois power/ illinova) found it necessary to take the time to send a gas meter repairman out to my house to determine if i had "bypassed" my meter when my monthly gas consumption dropped to zero a few summers back; it broke their heart when i informed them i had simply switched over to an electronic ignition on my furnace! this move cost them about $2.00 a month in gas sales!! what the hell would they do if i called and asked them to please remove the ugly gas and electric meters from the side of my house, as i wouldn't be needing their services any longer??!! reminds me of the joke about ma bell: if they charge extra for an unlisted number how much per month are they going to charge me for no phone at all!! i think i'll go check and see how my Teslinghouse stock is doing. thanks G'DAY! Mike Connolly Bulk Feed Tank Product Manager GRAIN SYSTEMS, INC. P.O. BOX 20 Assumption, IL 62510 PH: 217.226.4421 FAX: 217.226.4420 U.S. FAX: 800.800.5329 E-MAIL: mconnolly@grainsystems.com ---------- > Dear Korfmacher Christian, > > I am at a loss (and somewhat hurt) as to how you would think my suggestion of > one of possibly many ways to SAFELY market a new energy technology comprises a > "conspiracy". If it is at all possible to SAFELY market our technology by one's. > > I plan to modify my website soon based on the issues raised in your comments. > I believe you will like the changes. > > Best Wishes, > ZPE > http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe > > > -----Original Message----- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 22 13:52:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24530; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:50:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:50:40 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 16:50:38 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Overunity transformer? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"8gG0r1.0.w-5.Vyotr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5707 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello all, This is an idea for a overunity transformer. If we can understand why it won't work, if it won't, it might help us develop something which will: We start with a very large tightly wound toroidal coil which is our primary. For the secondary we have a loosely wound secondary, also toroidal; the diameter of the secondary is several times the diameter of the primary core, but much much less than than the diameter of the toroid itself. Now in the primary we place a UNIFORM high frequency current such that the secondary is exactly .25 wavelength away from the primary. When the secondary draws power there will be another .25 wavelength delay before it introduces an induced voltage in the primary. As a result the "back emf' into the primary will be in phase with primary emf. This would appear to be an overunity condition. Incidently, I think this would likely work best if the diameter of the primary is less than a wavelength. Although it may be expensive, this *could* be built, I think. To maintain a uniform phase current in the primary you may need a voltage source every turn or two, but that is a technical detail. The question is, would it work and if not, why not. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 22 15:05:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17596; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 14:59:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 14:59:22 -0700 Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808222200.PAA24638@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Overunity transformer? Resent-Message-ID: <"dtRZX1.0.nI4.vyptr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5708 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken and all, At 04:50 PM 8/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >Hello all, > This is an idea for a overunity transformer. If we can understand why it >won't work, if it won't, it might help us develop something which will: > We start with a very large tightly wound toroidal coil which is our >primary. For the secondary we have a loosely wound secondary, also toroidal; >the diameter of the secondary is several times the diameter of the primary >core, but much much less than than the diameter of the toroid itself. > Now in the primary we place a UNIFORM high frequency current such that the >secondary is exactly .25 wavelength away from the primary. When the >secondary draws power there will be another .25 wavelength delay before it >introduces an induced voltage in the primary. As a result the "back emf' into >the primary will be in phase with primary emf. >This would appear to be an overunity condition. Incidently, I think this >would likely work best if the diameter of the primary is less than a >wavelength. > Although it may be expensive, this *could* be built, I think. To >maintain a uniform phase current in the primary you may need a voltage source >every turn or two, but that is a technical detail. The question is, would it >work and if not, why not. > Ken Keasy@aol.com > I am wondering if the 2 .25 wavelength paths act the same as a quarter wavelength transmission line? Then could the "delay part" be separated from the "transformer" part and be treated as a transmission line giving an effective primary impedance, even though some of the delay may be from domain switching, etc?? For example, a transformer without a delay, but the primary is fed with a quarter wavelength section. Of course, then you are talking about input voltages, not emf's and fluxes. Is this equivalent? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 22 16:50:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09317; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 16:49:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 16:49:14 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: Re: First RealVideo online of gravitational converter ! Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 23:49:58 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35df58fc.605457975@mail-hub> References: <35DECC39.88EF8C74@harti.com> In-Reply-To: <35DECC39.88EF8C74@harti.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tYxjy2.0.VH2.vZrtr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5709 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:48:42 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote: >Hi, >there is a first RealVideo Animation now online of the gravitational >converter >under: > >http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb01.rm > Sorry Stephan, an animation proves nothing. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 22 20:17:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08174; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35DF86A2.8EF061B6@harti.com> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 05:04:02 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: New RealVideo movie uploaded ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vE7kp1.0.e_1.Ybutr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5710 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, there is a second RealVideo movie now online of the gravitational converter at: http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb02.rm It shows Dieter Bauer pulling up the cylinder and then let it go. The cylinder goes down, the swimmer body goes down, the water goes up and also the additional weights go up. If all the weights would be adjusted precisely the center of mass would have shifted upwards and enough torque is generated to turn the whole unit 180 degrees and then the sequence starts again ! A selfrunner powered by gravity ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 22 20:21:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14686; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:19:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:19:24 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: Re: New RealVideo movie uploaded ! Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 03:20:05 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35e38a2a.618051290@mail-hub> References: <35DF86A2.8EF061B6@harti.com> In-Reply-To: <35DF86A2.8EF061B6@harti.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GUJnU1.0.Ob3.xeutr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5711 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 23 Aug 1998 05:04:02 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote: >Hi, >there is a second RealVideo movie now online of the gravitational >converter >at: > >http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb02.rm > >It shows Dieter Bauer pulling up the cylinder and >then let it go. >The cylinder goes down, the swimmer body goes down, >the water goes up and >also the additional weights go up. >If all the weights would be adjusted precisely the center How about a new movie when the weights have been adjusted, and it's self powering? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 22 20:58:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24009; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:54:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:54:24 -0700 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:00:08 -0700 Subject: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Message-ID: <19980822.202655.12118.1.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4-5,7-8,13-14,16-17,23,26-27,36-37,42-43,47, 50-51,54-55,61-62,66-68,70-71,73-83,86-87,90-91,94-96,99-104, 106-107,110-111,115-116,118-119,122-123,125-126,128-129,131-132, 136-137,139-140,145-146,151-152,157-158,161-162,164-165,167-169, 174-176,186-187,193-194,197-198,201-202,210-211,214-215,220-221, 230-231,235-236,245-253 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"cHTd71.0.qs5.m9vtr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5712 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Transient Electron Coherence by Tim Vaughan The following is prompted by a recent experimental observation by Jean-Louis Naudin of an anomalous cooling effect in a large coil of wire. I would like throw out an idea to the members of this open forum to consider and comment on. It came to me in an attempt to explain the cooling effect in a large coil of wire observed by the physicist Leon Dragone in an experiment he called the electroentropic device in 1989, as well as in his investigations of a Joseph Newman type electric motor. Sadly, his experiments were cut short by a heart condition that caused him to die at an early age. Leon measured a temperature drop of up to 2 degrees F. (0.8 C) in a large coil of wire connected to his special cold cathode arc switch. I met Leon Dragone at a conference hosted by the Planetary Association for Clean Energy in Canada. Leon and I immediately became friends as I stayed up all night talking to him about energy ideas at the conference. We had very similar ideas about the possibility of organizing (or cohering) fluctuation energy such as thermal and quantum zero point fluctuation energy. Sadly, he died a few months later he died of a heart attack. He did not publish much information but I had many phone conversations with him in which he described his ideas and experiments. At the conference Leon showed me and others, his "electroentropic device" which seemed to show an excess energy gain. It consisted of a Neon sign transformer secondary coil connected in series with a micrometer adjustable spark gap also in series with a light bulb and a 575 volt battery pack. The battery pack also had a 3.5 uFD 4000 volt capacitor connected in parallel across it. The spark gap device was a small black box with a micrometer adjustment knob and two wires sticking out. The wires were connected with alligator clips and small gauge wire. When the spark gap was shorted, the bulb would not glow at all as only 25 milliamperes was flowing through it due to the 18000 ohms of resistance in the neon sign transformer. When Leon would carefully adjust the spark gap device the light would glow quite brightly and the current would increase to over 1000 milliamperes. Leon told me that he would get the same effect with a Newman type coil connect instead of the Neon sign transformer. Leon told me and this was later confirmed by Dr. P.T. Pappas ( a physicist from Athens, Greece ) that when the spark gap was operating in "excess energy mode" they were able to measure a drop in temperature of the coil of about 2 degrees Fahrenheit or (0.8 Celsius). The spark gap was what they called cold cathode glow discharge spark. Leon Dragone also told me that he had measured a similar temperature drop in the coil of the Newman motor he had constructed. As far as I know he never attempted to thermally insulate the coil from its surroundings. Leon thought maybe he was cyclically robbing the magnet inside the coil of some of its thermal energy in someway. However, Leon told me that he was puzzled by the his observation of a temperature drop in large coil of wire with no core at all. Also the temperature drop was measured on the coil itself and not the rotating permanent magnet armature when the magnet was present. Since I had not heard of anyone else observing these effects, I considered that Dragone and Pappas had made an error in the temperature measurements or there was some other kind phenomena at work like the Peltier Effect. Most recently, Jean-Louis Naudin made a very exciting discovery of a temperature drop in a large coil when running experiments with a Joseph Newman type motors. Great work Jean-Louis ! ( see: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NMac0709.htm ) I believe these temperature drops are very significant. =========== I wish to throw out this idea I call TRANSIENT ELECTRON COHERENCE. First here are some known facts about the free electrons in metals: THE FREE ELECTRON MODEL Some of the electrons in a metal conductor called FREE ELECTRONS are constantly moving about within the crystal structure of a metal, not just in the atomic orbits but also between the atoms. The motion of the free electrons through the metal is statistically random with as many going in one direction as another. Therefore there is no net current. Some of the motion of the electrons is due to thermal energy, however the electrons move around in the metal crystal even at absolute zero temperature. This is called the zero point energy of the free electrons. For this reason, a metal can be thought of as a "solid state plasma" consisting of positive metal ion cores held in a crystal matrix surrounded by an electron gas. Electrons act as both particles and waves. The wavelength of an electron depends on its energy (speed) The wave nature of electrons causes them to interact with the atoms in a metal conductor or semiconductor differently depending on their speed. At certain energies (speeds) the electrons resonate with the periodically spaced atoms in a metal crystal lattice and will be reflected or scattered. Due to the Pauli exclusion principle of quantum mechanics. Two electrons with same speed (wavelength) and direction (and spin) cannot occupy the same space. Therefore the energies (speeds) of the free electrons are distributed over a range of values. Electrons can have any energy (speed) within a range of allowed values. This range of values is called a band. Certain energy values are not allowed in a given crystal because they resonate with periodically spaced atoms. These missing energy values are called "forbidden energy bands". A band of allowed energy levels (speeds) will then have an upper and lower limit bounded by the forbidden regions. Because of the Pauli exclusion principle the bands fill up with electrons from the lowest to the highest allowed values. An insulator has electrons that are confined to stay within individual atoms or molecules and are not free to move throughout the material. These bound electrons can be said to exist inside energy bands which are filled so they do not allow more electrons to move in one directions than in another. So there can be no current flow. These filled energy bands are called VALENCE BANDS. Conductors also have electrons in valence bands some of which are in atomic orbits and some that are free. When an electric field is applied to a conductor such as a wire, the electrons in the valence bands can accelerate or gain energy as long as there is an allowed energy level to fill which would be the next higher level that has been vacated by another electron that has also been accelerated. Electrons with the highest allowed energy level in a given valence band will be reflected (in a perfect crystal) or at least scattered when they reach a forbidden energy level. If they are reflected they may occupy an energy level that has been vacated by an electron that was traveling in the opposite direction and has been slowed by the electric field. In this way electrons in valence bands simply exchange energy levels such that there is not net gain in energy (speed) in a single direction and therefore no net current flow due to the electrons in the valence bands. Therefore, because of this "energy musical chairs", electrons in valence bands do not contribute to current flow. In a conductor, the highest energy band is not filled by electrons. In other words, all of the available energy states in this highest energy band are not occupied. This energy band is called the CONDUCTION BAND. Electrons in the conduction band can contribute to a net current flow because of the available energy levels. Now here is where a possible way to cohere the free energy of electrons comes in................ Actual energy bands contain enormous numbers of allowed energy levels. However, imagine for purposes of understanding, that a certain conductor has a conduction band that has only the first two energy levels occupied. Therefore, there would be two electrons going in the forward direction with energy level 1 and 2 and two electrons going in the reverse direction with energy level 1 and 2. ( I am disregarding spins here) Now suppose an electric field is applied to the conductor so that the electrons will be accelerated in the forward direction. Some time later the electrons moving in the forward direction will gain an amount of energy such that they then occupy energy levels 2 and 3 in the forward direction. At the same time the two electrons traveling in the reverse direction will be decelerated so that the fastest electron moves from energy level 2 to 1 as soon as level 1 is available. The electron at level 1 however is not allowed to go to a lower level in the reverse direction and is reflected so that it would now occupy level 1 of the forward direction. As a net result, the originally forward moving electrons simply gain energy as expected by the accelerating electric field. At same time though, an additional electron is added to the forward moving group because the slowest (least energetic) conduction band electron that was moving in the reverse direction has been reflected so that it moves in the forward direction as well. As a result of this selective reflection of the slowest (lowest energy) electrons in the conduction band we would now have 3 electrons moving in the forward with only one moving in the reverse direction. A short time later the single electron moving in the reverse direction would try to occupy the forbidden level below level 1 and would also be reflected joining the others in the forward direction. At this point all 4 of the electrons in the conduction band will be moving in the forward direction. Part of the added energy of the electrons moving in the forward direction will have been contributed by the applied electric field with an additional amount added by the selective reflection of the slowest conduction band electrons originally moving in the reverse direction. This results in an amplification of the net forward current by energy contributed by the zero-point energy of the originally reverse moving electrons. This amplification effect would be short lived because the population of eligible reverse moving conduction bands electrons would be quickly depleted. In short an abruptly applied high voltage potential applied to a conductor should cause the selective reflection of the lower energy conduction band electrons traveling in opposition to the applied electric field which will contribute their kinetic energy to the forward moving current. Now if my hypothesis is correct, when a strong electric field is abruptly applied to a conductor, a transient current surge will occur that consists of a quantity of energy that has been cohered from the energy of the free electrons in the metal. If this energy can be captured somehow before it degenerates into heat or radiation, it can be utilized. This captured energy would then be replenished by the ambient energy inside and surrounding the conductor. Therefore, the entropy and temperature of the conductor would be reduced (a cooling effect). A device capturing such free energy of the electrons would constitute a macroscopic violation of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. However, it would really be a coherence of many microscopic heat engines (electron-ion interactions). If this hypothesis is correct, it should be possible to cohere and extract some of the fluctuation energy of the free electrons of a conductor (or semiconductor). In order to enhance this effect it would be best to use a long conductor. The effect might be best seen in a large coil of wire at lower frequencies or in a transmission line (or antenna) at higher frequencies. Abrupt switching might be accomplished with, among other things, a commutator or an appropriate spark gap. The surge might be captured by some form of diode, electronic switching device, or commutator. Please, I welcome your comments and criticisms about this hypothesis. Sincerely, Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 02:57:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26537; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 02:56:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 02:56:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199808230957.FAA31199@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Cc: , Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:17:51 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rsI1z1.0.YU6.ZT-tr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5713 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tim Vaughan summarized; > > A device capturing such free energy of the electrons would constitute a > macroscopic violation of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. However, it > would really be a coherence of many microscopic heat engines > (electron-ion interactions). > > If this hypothesis is correct, it should be possible to cohere and > extract some of the fluctuation energy of the free electrons of a > conductor (or semiconductor). In order to enhance this effect it would > be best to use a long conductor. The effect might be best seen in a> large coil of wire at lower frequencies or in a transmission line (or > antenna) at higher frequencies. Abrupt switching might be accomplished > with, among other things, a commutator or an appropriate spark gap. The > surge might be captured by some form of diode, electronic switching > device, or commutator. > > Please, I welcome your comments and criticisms about this hypothesis. > > Sincerely, > > Tim Vaughan > ( tv@juno.com ) > Several facts may not have been made concerning the high frequency effects in Newman type coils. These coils have a large internal capacitance and of course a large induction. The internal relationship of these two variables can produce a natural resonant frequency that may be much higher than the quarter wavelength value which is determined by the actual length of wire. If we assume that the electrons entering the coil produce a bumping effect at the exit end, we must ask ourselves does this bumping effect occur simultaneously or does it proceed at the speed of light? If this occurs at the speed of light than the "bump" never has time to reach the end of the coil. Thus many more electrons may be osscillating than are actually entering and leaving the coil. Another thing in the picture is that an electric field exists across the wires during polarity change and the corresponding skin effect. Sincerly H Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 04:21:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA02443; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:20:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:20:28 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <32e36a82.35dffb07@aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 07:20:38 EDT To: tv@juno.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"ufL6o2.0.yb.xh_tr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5714 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 23/08/1998 05:55:25, tv@juno.com wrote : << Transient Electron Coherence by Tim Vaughan The following is prompted by a recent experimental observation by Jean-Louis Naudin of an anomalous cooling effect in a large coil of wire..... >> Hi Tim, Thank you very much for your excellent document about a "possible" explanation of the cooling effect that I have observed in my Newman's machine. So, I have posted your document in my web site at : http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NewMcool.htm Thanks again for sharing your thinking with all of us. Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 08:42:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09895; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:41:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:41:02 -0700 Message-ID: <35E053BA.C7A@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:39:06 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RF experimenters listen up! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"c97GI.0.XQ2.DW3ur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5715 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: If there is someone on this list who has good experience with RF and Ham radio who is willing to work with me off list on an experiment, let me know. The discussion about this experiment will be done off list. If you're interested and have questions, go ahead and ask. Thanks, Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 09:34:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22306; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:32:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:32:53 -0700 Message-ID: <35E05FE0.1B21@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:30:56 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RF experimenters listen up! References: <35E053BA.C7A@sunherald.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_Vu952.0.SS5.qG4ur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5716 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: If there is someone on this list who has good experience with RF and Ham radio who is willing to work with me off list on an experiment, let me know. The discussion about this experiment will be done off list. If you're interested and have questions, go ahead and ask. Thanks, Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 10:36:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07052; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:35:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:35:02 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <3aeb0697.35e052cb@aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:35:06 EDT To: leoguitar@vossnet.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: New RealVideo movie uploaded ! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"PMV0e.0.6k1.5B5ur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5717 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 23/08/1998 05:14:27, harti@harti.com wrote : << If all the weights would be adjusted precisely the center of mass would have shifted upwards and enough torque is generated to turn the whole unit 180 degrees and then the sequence starts again ! A selfrunner powered by gravity ! >> Thanks Stefan, This is interesting, but unfortunately, I don't see the device running itself in the video ? Have you seen yourself the self running effect, more than one turn and at least for some minutes/hours without additional energy input ? Is it possible to see a realvideo about this machine in selfrunning mode (in full view) ? Have you some real tests measurement about the mechanical torque generated and the real usable power on the main shaft ? Sincerely, Jean-Louis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 12:55:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17154; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:54:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:54:22 -0700 Message-ID: <35E072A1.DB89DD64@harti.com> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:50:57 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , David Sligar , freenrg-l Subject: Re: New RealVideo movie uploaded ! References: <35DF86A2.8EF061B6@harti.com> <35E02419.4937@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RUHP-1.0.sB4.kD7ur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5718 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David Sligar wrote: > Hi, all. This reminds me of the plastic duck toys I used to see in > restaurants (coffee shops) and I wonder if anybody remembers them? They > were shaped like a duck's head with a hook arrangement which attached to > the rim of a water glass. The duck would slowly (30 - 40 seconds?) > pivot toward the water > in the glass, and eventually the duck's beak would be submerged. Water > would somehow be taken into the device at this point, and change the > duck's balance. Very soon, the balance change would cause the duck's > head to swing upward, quickly, out of the water, and the device would > assume an upright position. Slowly, then, the duck would start drooping > toward the "drinking" position. This device would continue oscillating > in this way, I suppose until the water evaporated. An over-unity toy? > Sorry about the elaborate description, I've thought of these gadgets > often over the years, always with regret that I never looked closely at > one to try to understand it when I had the chance. Guess I should hang > out around the antique toy shows looking for one. Oh well. Does > anyone else remember these? David Well David, no it is not that effect with the duck toy, cause this duck toy is just an unefficient thermodynamic heatenergy machine running on the difference temperature of water and vaporized water. The gravitation converter runs by converting gravitation to mechanical energy ! It is an open system using the gravitation as an input energy ! > > > Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > > Hi, > > there is a second RealVideo movie now online of the gravitational > > converter > > at: > > > > http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb02.rm > > > > It shows Dieter Bauer pulling up the cylinder and > > then let it go. > > The cylinder goes down, the swimmer body goes down, > > the water goes up and > > also the additional weights go up. > > If all the weights would be adjusted precisely the center > > of mass would have shifted upwards and enough torque > > is generated to turn the whole unit 180 degrees and > > then the sequence starts again ! A selfrunner > > powered by gravity ! > > > > Regards, Stefan. > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 12:59:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19308; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:58:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:58:42 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808231959.MAA19112@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Resent-Message-ID: <"0jn_B1.0.bj4.oH7ur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5719 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tim and all, At 08:00 PM 8/22/98 -0700, you wrote: >Transient Electron Coherence >by Tim Vaughan > Thank you for providing more material on Leon Dragone's paper. I had always wondered why, if the magnetic field was providing the cooling, why the coil and not the magnet was being cooled. >Leon thought maybe he was cyclically robbing the magnet inside the coil >of some of its thermal energy in someway. However, Leon told me that he >was puzzled by the his observation of a temperature drop in large coil of >wire with no core at all. Also the temperature drop was measured on the >coil itself and not the rotating permanent magnet armature when the >magnet was present. > >Since I had not heard of anyone else observing these effects, I >considered that Dragone and Pappas had made an error in the temperature >measurements or there was some other kind phenomena at work like the >Peltier Effect. > I would like to have tried it, but I've seen no temperature effect with my coils. Of course they were smaller than Dragone: his were 2000H and 20,000 Ohms. Did you ever find the voltage he used, was it the same 575 V? I think I have a change for his paper. He calculates a 200 Watt thermal flow. To caclulate the temp. drop, one needs the thermal conductivity to ambient, not the "specific heat". If the coil were insulated, a larger final temp. drop would be seen, at least until equilibrium with this effect is reached. >I believe these temperature drops are very significant. >=========== > >I wish to throw out this idea I call TRANSIENT ELECTRON COHERENCE. > >First here are some known facts about the free electrons in metals: > >THE FREE ELECTRON MODEL >... Do you have an idea why the length of coil should matter? If the cooling is in any chosen length of the wire, it should be the same for 500 Volts and 10km of wire, or 5 Volts and 100m of wire?? IMHO, the transient times in a large coil that some use is incorrect. That is, the time from current in to current out. Once the current flows through the initial turns of the coil, a magnetic field is generated which link the other turns, including the ending turns. The propagation time would be "c" at the dimension of the coil, NOT the length of the wire. I feel this is different than a long transmission line of the same length of wire. >In short an abruptly applied high voltage potential applied to a >conductor should cause the selective reflection of the lower energy >conduction band electrons traveling in opposition to the applied electric >field which will contribute their kinetic energy to the forward moving >current. > >Now if my hypothesis is correct, when a strong electric field is >abruptly applied to a conductor, a transient current surge will occur >that consists of a quantity of energy that has been cohered from the >energy of the free electrons in the metal. If this energy can be >captured somehow before it degenerates into heat or radiation, it can be >utilized. This captured energy would then be replenished by the >ambient energy inside and surrounding the conductor. Therefore, the >entropy and temperature of the conductor would be reduced (a cooling >effect). > Would a test of this effect be that the conductivity of the wire would be increased initially- corresponding to this increased cirrent flow. Wouldn't it be captured by any load in series with the coil? >A device capturing such free energy of the electrons would constitute a >macroscopic violation of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. However, it >would really be a coherence of many microscopic heat engines >(electron-ion interactions). > >If this hypothesis is correct, it should be possible to cohere and >extract some of the fluctuation energy of the free electrons of a >conductor (or semiconductor). In order to enhance this effect it would >be best to use a long conductor. The effect might be best seen in a >large coil of wire at lower frequencies or in a transmission line (or >antenna) at higher frequencies. Abrupt switching might be accomplished >with, among other things, a commutator or an appropriate spark gap. The >surge might be captured by some form of diode, electronic switching >device, or commutator. > >Please, I welcome your comments and criticisms about this hypothesis. > >Sincerely, > >Tim Vaughan >( tv@juno.com ) > Do you have any other ideas how this idea could be tested? I thought it (magneto-thermal electric) may be the energy source for the Greg Watson's "RMOG", but never got mine to work by itself. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 13:25:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25685; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:23:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:23:23 -0700 Message-ID: <35E0797B.D8F4A88F@harti.com> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:20:11 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: newman-list , Robin van Spaandonk Subject: Re: New RealVideo movie uploaded ! References: <35DF86A2.8EF061B6@harti.com> <35e38a2a.618051290@mail-hub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-LRPn1.0.FH6.xe7ur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5720 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > On Sun, 23 Aug 1998 05:04:02 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > >Hi, > >there is a second RealVideo movie now online of the gravitational > >converter > >at: > > > >http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb02.rm > > > >It shows Dieter Bauer pulling up the cylinder and > >then let it go. > >The cylinder goes down, the swimmer body goes down, > >the water goes up and > >also the additional weights go up. > >If all the weights would be adjusted precisely the center > > How about a new movie when the weights have been adjusted, and it's > self powering? > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk I will visit the inventor again, when the device is moved from the storage place where I taped this movie to a new lab in about 3 weeks from now and when these adjustments will be done. Then I will tape much more of it, when it is selfrunning again. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 14:16:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03837; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:15:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:15:09 -0700 Message-ID: <35E0855E.98D85901@harti.com> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:10:55 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: newman-list , Robin van Spaandonk Subject: Re: First RealVideo online of gravitational converter ! References: <35DECC39.88EF8C74@harti.com> <35df58fc.605457975@mail-hub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rnmnM.0.nx.SP8ur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5722 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > On Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:48:42 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > >Hi, > >there is a first RealVideo Animation now online of the gravitational > >converter > >under: > > > >http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb01.rm > > > Sorry Stephan, an animation proves nothing. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk You are right, this should also only display the main principle, how this device works ! Just to see it better, how it operates... Also took me a few days to understand it ! It is not as easy to see all the weights in its kinematic actions ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 14:16:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03817; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:15:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:15:08 -0700 Message-ID: <35E0845F.50DF062A@harti.com> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:06:40 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JNaudin509@aol.com CC: Stefan Hartmann , freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Subject: Re: New RealVideo movie uploaded ! References: <3aeb0697.35e052cb@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Vh4vl2.0.Xx.RP8ur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5721 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > On 23/08/1998 05:14:27, harti@harti.com wrote : > > << If all the weights would be adjusted precisely the center > of mass would have shifted upwards and enough torque > is generated to turn the whole unit 180 degrees and > then the sequence starts again ! A selfrunner > powered by gravity ! >> > > Thanks Stefan, > > This is interesting, but unfortunately, I don't see the device running itself > in the video ? Have you seen yourself the self running effect, more than one > turn and at least for some minutes/hours without additional energy input ? Not yet, but the effect, that all masses go up and the center of mass moves up can be shown in the storage place. I will post an MPEG movie this night, where you can see it better ! > Is it possible to see a realvideo about this machine in selfrunning mode (in > full view) ? > Have you some real tests measurement about the mechanical torque generated and > the real usable power on the main shaft ? Not yet. As I told, the device is in this moment in a storage place, where there is not much space to let it run and also the adjustments of all weights and the swimmer body must be made very precisely. As soon as it is moved to the new lab in about 3 weeks from now where there is much more space and also higher room height to let it run, I will visit him again or will get a new video tape. Unfortunately other earlier videotapes were lost during a dubbing process, when the machine was already selfrunning and the inventor claims, it was stoolen. Also there was an attempt to steel the machine, but it was unsuccessful ! it was just too big to be pulled through a broken window ! :) The machine was presented already to a few professors of the Technical university of Munich and they have seen it run as a selfrunner ! That was also why this device caused so much trouble at the university . The professors, who have seen it in operation were "punished" by their professor colleagues, who did not want to see it and who do not believe in it.. Also the Bavarian government took an interest in it, but as you know, politics and free energy does not fit together....simular to the Newman case.... Also the German patent office refused the device for at least 7 or 8 times... same story as with Joe Newman... I will post later this night a new MPEG movie about the main principle.. Stay tuned... Regards, Stefan. > > > Sincerely, > > Jean-Louis -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 14:33:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08952; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:32:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:32:40 -0700 Message-ID: <35E0A623.6CDA@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:30:43 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: RF experimenters listen up! References: <35E053BA.C7A@sunherald.infi.net> <35E05FE0.1B21@sunherald.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_7dRo1.0.oB2.uf8ur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5723 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: All: I have recieved several email responses to this. I now have enough persons to work on this project. I thank you all for your offers though. Best regards, Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 16:28:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15242; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:25:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:25:41 -0700 Message-ID: <35E0A436.1D0CB5B6@harti.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 01:22:30 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: New movies uploaded ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RqhUv2.0._j3.qJAur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5724 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I just uploaded new RealVideo and an MPEG movie of the gravitation converter. These movies are now online: http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb01.rm http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb02.rm http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb03.rm http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb04.rm http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb02.mpg As well as these 3D renderings: http://www.overunity.com/gb/grend01.jpg http://www.overunity.com/gb/grend02.jpg Hope this helps to understand the device and how it works.. Am still working on a new MPEG movie which shows the main effect even better. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 18:05:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12872; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:03:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:03:45 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 17:15:32 -0700 Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Message-ID: <19980823.173550.8894.2.tv@juno.com> References: <199808230957.FAA31199@fh102.infi.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,19,21-25,27,30-32,36,39-40,43-47 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"bDWR32.0.293.mlBur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5725 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:17:51 -0500 "Meat Truck" writes: >> Several facts may not have been made concerning the high frequency >effects in Newman type coils. These coils have a large internal capacitance >and of course a large induction. The internal relationship of these two >variable can produce a natural resonant frequency that may be much higher than the >quarter wavelength value which is determined by the actual length of wire. If >we assume that the electrons entering the coil produce a bumping effect at the >exit end, we must ask ourselves does this bumping effect occur simultaneously or >does it proceed at the speed of light? If this occurs at the speed of light >than the "bump" never has time to reach the end of the coil. Thus many more >electrons may be oscillating than are actually entering and leaving the coil. Another >thing in the picture is that an electric field exists across the wires during >polarity change and the corresponding skin effect. Sincerly H Norris >mnorris@akron.infi.net >> Some excellant observations here. The internal capacitance of the large inductor that I saw Leon demonstrate was what I thought might explain how he was able to enough current through the 18 kiloohms of the large inductor to light the 60 watt light bulb. Consider the following circuit all connected in a series circuit: A 600 volt battery (with a 3.5 uFD, 4000 V capacitor in parallel), a spark gap switch or other rapid switching device, a 60 watt light bulb, and a large inductor with a DC resistance of 18000 ohms. The light bulb has a resistance of 240 ohms and requires at least 200 milliamp to glow dimly ( 500 milliamps to glow brightly). When the spark gap is shorted, only about 30 milliamps flows. Assuming that the large inductor has internal capacitance that can pass high frequency A.C. or pulses, can the D.C. battery somehow deliver enough power to sustain the needed high frequency A.C. currents to light the bulb ? Thanks, Tim _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 20:41:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01677; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:38:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:38:55 -0700 Message-ID: <35E0DF8F.EFFC1CB4@harti.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 05:35:43 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: New MPEG movie uploaded ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RaoQL.0.6Q.F1Eur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5726 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I just uploaded a new MPEG movie of the gravitational converter. These MPEG movies are now online: http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb01.mpg and http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb02.mpg Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 21:05:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09758; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:02:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:02:02 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <2d10d4dd.35e0e4e7@aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:58:29 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Overunity transformer? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"UILS52.0.OO2.wMEur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5727 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 8/22/98 3:06:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ddameron@earthlink.net writes: << > This is an idea for a overunity transformer. If we can understand why it >won't work, if it won't, it might help us develop something which will: > We start with a very large tightly wound toroidal coil which is our >primary. For the secondary we have a loosely wound secondary, also toroidal; >the diameter of the secondary is several times the diameter of the primary >core, but much much less than than the diameter of the toroid itself. > Now in the primary we place a UNIFORM high frequency current such that the >secondary is exactly .25 wavelength away from the primary. When the >secondary draws power there will be another .25 wavelength delay before it >introduces an induced voltage in the primary. As a result the "back emf' into >the primary will be in phase with primary emf. >This would appear to be an overunity condition. Incidently, I think this >would likely work best if the diameter of the primary is less than a >wavelength. > Although it may be expensive, this *could* be built, I think. To >maintain a uniform phase current in the primary you may need a voltage source >every turn or two, but that is a technical detail. The question is, would it >work and if not, why not. > Ken Keasy@aol.com > I am wondering if the 2 .25 wavelength paths act the same as a quarter wavelength transmission line? Then could the "delay part" be separated from the "transformer" part and be treated as a transmission line giving an effective primary impedance, even though some of the delay may be from domain switching, etc?? For example, a transformer without a delay, but the primary is fed with a quarter wavelength section. Of course, then you are talking about input voltages, not emf's and fluxes. Is this equivalent? -Dave >> This configuration does seem related to the .25 wave transmission line, but I also have trouble completing the analogy. Incidently, to simplify things I was thinking of a an air-core transformer. I don't think that effects whether there can be overunity operation or not. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 21:23:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA14499; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:21:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:21:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199808240422.AAA20213@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:57:47 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4D1In1.0.MY3.UfEur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5728 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > On Sunday, Aug 23, 1998, 8:06 PM, Tim Vaughan replies and submits the experimental conditions below, ---------- > From: Meat Truck > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? > Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 7:15 PM > > On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:17:51 -0500 "Meat Truck" > writes: > >> Several facts may not have been made concerning the high frequency > >effects in Newman type coils. These coils have a large internal > capacitance > >and of course a large induction. The internal relationship of these two > > >variables can produce a natural resonant frequency that may be much > higher than the > >quarter wavelength value which is determined by the actual length of > wire. If > >we assume that the electrons entering the coil produce a bumping effect > at the > >exit end, we must ask ourselves does this bumping effect occur > simultaneously or > >does it proceed at the speed of light? If this occurs at the speed of > light > >than the "bump" never has time to reach the end of the coil. Thus many > more >electrons may be oscillating than are actually entering and leaving > the coil. Another > >thing in the picture is that an electric field exists across the wires > during > >polarity change and the corresponding skin effect. Sincerly H Norris > >mnorris@akron.infi.net > >> > Meat Truck replies to reply in parenthesis. > Some excellant observations here. The internal capacitance of thee large > inductor(The secondary of a neon transformer does NOT have a high internal capacitance compared to an air core inductor of equivalent induction. This is because it must use hundreds of times more winds to make the magnetic field without the use of iron. It is the spacing between the wires and its insulation that create the effect of internal capacitance. Also high frequency effects should be predominantly abscent in the iron core secondary.) > that I saw Leon demonstrate was what I thought might explain how he was > able to enough current through the 18 kiloohms of the large inductor to > light the 60 watt light > bulb.( I believe what you may have witnessed was the following scenario.The series circuit you have described could have only created an amperage of 600volts/18000ohms=.033A The addition of the arc gap could raise the voltage but not the amperage. Now if the bulb were instead hooked to the primary of the neon transformer it could act as a step down transformer of inefficient design. Now it was indicated that little power seemed to exist through the bulb without the arc gap. Well of course a transformer in a DC application is noted to do this. It dont work. Now if the input was pulsed by the arc gap there MIGHT be a possibility that the inductance seen by the secondary with a closed primary could resonate with the capacitance across the battery to give a higher than 600 volt pulse into the secondary. This high voltage pulse might be able to be converted to a low voltage, high enough amperage to light the bulb, at the primary output end of the transformer. Now there also are arguments against even a DC pulse being able to affect a transformer, so at this point I would say that I am only guessing what could have happened. I would say that if it happens all in a series circuit I am mystified as to an explanation.) > > Consider the following circuit all connected in a series circuit: A 600 > volt battery (with a 3.5 uFD, 4000 V capacitor in parallel), a spark gap > switch or other rapid switching device, a 60 watt light bulb, and a large > inductor with a DC resistance of 18000 ohms. > The light bulb has a resistance of 240 ohms and requires at least 200 > milliamp to glow dimly ( 500 milliamps to glow brightly). When the > spark gap is shorted, only about 30 milliamps flows. > > Assuming that the large inductor has internal capacitance that can pass > high frequency A.C. or pulses, can the D.C. battery somehow deliver > enough power > to sustain the needed high frequency A.C. currents to light the bulb ? > (Again I doubt if any High Frequency effects can be produced with iron inductors, and in the case cited even whether any ac effects at all occur.) > Thanks, > Tim > (Congratulations on your posting at the JL Naudin site.I think I need to read up on electron energy levels to completely understand the significance of your thesis. Sincere in the work, H Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net) > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 21:34:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA19053; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:32:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:32:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199808240433.AAA17470@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Overunity transformer? Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:10:03 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sRzTu3.0.df4.kpEur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5729 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In immediate reply to Ken I would say that an air core transformer at 60 hz is only 1/10th of 1% efficient in most designs. mnorris@akron.infi.net ---------- > From: Keasy@aol.com > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Overunity transformer? > Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 10:58 PM > > In a message dated 8/22/98 3:06:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > ddameron@earthlink.net writes: > > << > This is an idea for a overunity transformer. If we can understand why > it > >won't work, if it won't, it might help us develop something which will: > > We start with a very large tightly wound toroidal coil which is our > >primary. For the secondary we have a loosely wound secondary, also > toroidal; > >the diameter of the secondary is several times the diameter of the primary > >core, but much much less than than the diameter of the toroid itself. > > Now in the primary we place a UNIFORM high frequency current such that > the > >secondary is exactly .25 wavelength away from the primary. When the > >secondary draws power there will be another .25 wavelength delay before it > >introduces an induced voltage in the primary. As a result the "back emf' > into > >the primary will be in phase with primary emf. > >This would appear to be an overunity condition. Incidently, I think this > >would likely work best if the diameter of the primary is less than a > >wavelength. > > Although it may be expensive, this *could* be built, I think. To > >maintain a uniform phase current in the primary you may need a voltage > source > >every turn or two, but that is a technical detail. The question is, would > it > >work and if not, why not. > > Ken Keasy@aol.com > > > I am wondering if the 2 .25 wavelength paths act the same as a quarter > wavelength transmission line? Then could the "delay part" be separated from > the "transformer" part and be treated as a transmission line giving an > effective primary impedance, even though some of the delay may be from > domain switching, etc?? For example, a transformer without a delay, but the > primary is fed with a quarter wavelength section. Of course, then you are > talking about input voltages, not emf's and fluxes. Is this equivalent? > -Dave >> > This configuration does seem related to the .25 wave transmission line, but I > also have trouble completing the analogy. Incidently, to simplify things I > was thinking of a an air-core transformer. I don't think that effects whether > there can be overunity operation or not. > Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 23 22:25:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA31762; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:24:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:24:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199808240524.BAA01592@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:01:02 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VtoXU.0.Cm7.mZFur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5730 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 8/23/98 8:00 PM dave dameron comments on T.E.C. submited by Tim Vaughan > > >THE FREE ELECTRON MODEL > >... > Do you have an idea why the length of coil should matter? If the cooling is > in any chosen length of the wire, it should be the same for 500 Volts and > 10km of wire, or > 5 Volts and 100m of wire?? The length of the wire may have considerations in the fact that the spiking effects observed after induction breaks in Newman machines occur at a high frequency. Now it is known that coils will resonate at their quarter wavelength value in which the length of the wire in a coil is used in this calculation. This calculation is used in Tesla coils so that by the time polarity reversal occurs the length of the wire has been transversed by the electrons. In other words the oscillation can reinforce itself to create high voltage effects. Now what I have been trying to point out is that a frequency many times higher than this can be observed in air core inductors. Now if electron propagation is at the speed of light what happens to those electrons in the middle of the coil that are oscillating back and forth but not reaching either end of the coil? Can we assume that more electrons are oscillating in the coil than are actually being inputed? > > IMHO, the transient times in a large coil that some use is incorrect. That > is, the time from current in to current out. Once the current flows through > the initial turns of the coil, a magnetic field is generated which link the > other turns, including the ending turns. The propagation time would be "c" > at the dimension of the coil, NOT the length of the wire. I feel this is > different than a long transmission line of the same length of wire. Dont understand meaning of IMHO but if propagation speed c is used across dimension of coil that might explain things, and this is the conventional reasoning. But it still does not explain how the electrons are distributed across the entire length of the wire without having been sent there at speeds exceeding c which we all assume to be improbable. Personally I feel that an echo of the incompleted electron journey is created,and then an echo of an echo until after the required amount of echoes the free electrons through the entire course of the coil are activated. This of course implies that electrons are trapped in the coil and that more electrons are oscillating than are being inputed. H Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 03:03:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA11472; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 02:59:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 02:59:10 -0700 Message-ID: <016c01bdcf45$cc541f00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:58:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"vozPz1.0.Ap2.kbJur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5731 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi 'Meat Truck', Ken, Tim and All I think we may have something here. As far as I can see, cooling (with a coil of wire anyway), could only occur if the electrons in the conductor lose energy. The coils experiencing this effect defy any conventional explanation (that I know of anyway). Any losses through EM radiation should be replenished by the generated EMF. Cooling demonstrates that some force is removing energy at a rate greater than the induced current is heating the conductor as well as background EM (room temp). Do we have an accurate electrical model of the coil that is cooling? Is any other part of the device heating up more than expected? By the way, most extreme low temperature (down to < 1K) cooling devices use bursts of RF power to remove energy from the target. Anyway, I'm going to investigate the relationship between inductors resonant frequency and wavelengths etc. I can couple this with Tesla's 'non-hertzian' waves in my mind. I am going to resonate an inductor/transformer at its wavelength frequency modulated by its natural resonance frequency (or the other way round!). Thanks for the ideas! Tim, in the series circuit you describe with the spark gap, did you actually see the light bulb glow to full brightness without any obvious pulsing. Also, do you have any idea why a 4000V capacitor was used? 3 microfarad would be useful as a reservoir capacitor for only about 0.3mA of continuous output current. What sort of battery was the 600V battery? (400 AA's :-) < Deleted experiment that I will think about before I write it down> Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 03:15:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA15995; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 03:13:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 03:13:40 -0700 Message-ID: <017901bdcf47$d5954880$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:12:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"BZmxh1.0.rv3.JpJur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5733 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave and All Dave, the magnetic field generated which links the turns in an inductor generate back EMF, which opposes current flow, which is why current lags voltage in an inductor. Coiling a 'transmission line' increases its inductance. The transmission line can still be considered as a straight line with greater inductance (even straight transmission lines have inductance). By the way 'Meat Truck' (nice name, better than 'Grub Dog'), I believe IMHO means In My Honest Opinion. PS What happened to ZPE. I sent him an email saying who I thought he was. We have had no communication since! Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk -----Original Message----- From: dave dameron >IMHO, the transient times in a large coil that some use is incorrect. That >is, the time from current in to current out. Once the current flows through >the initial turns of the coil, a magnetic field is generated which link the >other turns, including the ending turns. The propagation time would be "c" >at the dimension of the coil, NOT the length of the wire. I feel this is >different than a long transmission line of the same length of wire. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 03:22:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA15514; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 03:12:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 03:12:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: sh.diac.com: ekwall2 owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 04:10:53 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: lc Subject: Greg Watson was Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? In-Reply-To: <199808231959.MAA19112@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"1gXfD3.0.Fo3.YoJur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5732 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, dave dameron wrote: Hi Tim and all, >by Tim Vaughan >Leon >Tim Vaughan >( tv@juno.com ) > Do you have any other ideas how this idea could be tested? I thought it (magneto-thermal electric) may be the energy source for the Greg Watson's "RMOG", but never got mine to work by itself. -Dave ------------------------------ Hi all, :) ref: Greg Watson; Besides the obvious, has anyone 'physically' TALKED to Greg Watson in the last months?? Is he "still THERE?" e-mail _IS_ iffy! -=se=- steve (just curious) ekwall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 03:35:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA20369; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 03:32:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 03:32:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: sh.diac.com: ekwall2 owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 04:30:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? In-Reply-To: <017901bdcf47$d5954880$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SkNbi1.0.6-4.85Kur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5734 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, David Callaghan wrote: -snip- By the way 'Meat Truck' (nice name, better than 'Grub Dog'), I believe IMHO means In My Honest Opinion. -----Original Message----- From: dave dameron >IMHO, the transient times in a large coil that some use is incorrect. That -snip- ---------------------- Ahhh thanks, (new light! 8^) I was reading IMHO as "I Might However Offer" 'doesn't do much for this translation however, still reads the same ??' -=se=- steve ( I always hated those CPSC's anyway ) ekwall characters put simply compressed I wish everyone a good week!! (er WK) er WORK WK (err WK WK), er, WrKWK - H*ck Have a good Monday all! :) l8tr g8tr's :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 06:31:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA25048; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 06:30:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 06:30:17 -0700 Message-Id: <35E0FEA7.58CFB23@ens.ascom.ch> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:48:23 +0200 From: Korfmacher Christian Reply-To: korfmach@ens.ascom.ch Organization: Ascom Business Systems AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [de] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ZPE Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED - reply to Korfmacher Christian References: <01BDCD14.92D34040@56K-008.MaxTNT4.pdq.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3S0G33.0.E76.fhMur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5735 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ZPE wrote: > > Dear Korfmacher Christian, > > I am at a loss (and somewhat hurt) as to how you would think my >suggestion of one of possibly many ways to SAFELY market a new energy >technology comprises a "conspiracy". --SNIP-- To ZPE, I did not want to hurt anybody by my point of view, I'm not the best in english language so there was a slip of tongue when I said that 'you can't disclose this new technology'. What I meant was 'you won't be able to suppress this technology for long time'. If it does work, it will make its way to the public, whether anybody wants to prevent this or not. Once this product will be available to a restricted group e.g. energy providers, there will be attempts to copy it and if only one attempt succeeds, the world will know. So, I hope you didn't take it to personally. We live in the best of all the times that have been so far, so I'm still looking forward for the things to come, whether good or bad. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 08:05:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25267; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:02:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:02:31 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:02:03 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Transformer core source?? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"9pt1-3.0.jA6.72Our"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5736 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Does anyone know offhand of a source for transformer cores (other than ferrites, I have those). My electronics catalogs have lots of transformers -so does my local surplus electronics store- but I would prefer to avoid diaassembly. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 08:24:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02078; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:23:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:23:41 -0700 Message-ID: <00c901bdcf73$23ef0ea0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: , Subject: Equation units Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:22:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"7cKCK1.0.zV.yLOur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5737 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello everyone! Can I be sold bold as to propose that everyone strives to use SI units when displaying calculations. It would make life a lot easier when trying to evaluate proposed formula. I know that using other units simplifies some equations, but I for one would rather have everything based on the same units. It also makes everything easier to remember! I apologise to our US friends, who are still stuck in the imperial world from which the UK is still struggling to escape. I could eat a pound of cheese, but a kilogram is bound to give me nightmares!?! Can you pass me that 53/57ths piece of wood please!?! I am writing this after receiving a formulae from someone containing, centimetres, pounds, thou and mils (whatever they are!). All published work I have seen has used SI units for as long as I can remember. (No, I don't want a unit converter thank you very much, just uniformity) ;-} PS Now everyone on VORTEX has attacked everyone else a few times, can we get back to somewhere near topic? Apologies must go to Fred Sparber, who proposes interesting ideas regardless, even if he doesn't use SI units! <0.060" thick x 6.5" wide by a foot or so long> :-) Best regards David 'spends most of his time converting units or finding out what they are' Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.UK From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 08:30:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04481; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:26:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:26:32 -0700 Message-ID: <002c01bdcf74$2c2637a0$0561afce@et-s> From: "Eric Tonkins" To: Subject: IMHO Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:29:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"LvLPf.0.c51.bOOur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5738 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FYI: IMHO ... have always been told that it meant ... In My Humble Opinion . (BTW ... I've always seen it used as such.) :-) Till Later, Eric Favorite Quote: " Wonderful times only happen to you if you show up. Unless you show up, you'll never have one ! " Eric Tonkins EMail: vegan@sprynet.com Internet: http://my.name.is/free$100drawing4you Voice / Fax: (702) 358-7681 Home Office: 634 Oakwood Dr. # 3, Sparks, NV 89431 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 09:35:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12645; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:34:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:34:11 -0700 Message-ID: <000601bdcf7c$fc695de0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: IMHO Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:33:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Nur9k.0.L53.0OPur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5739 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi everyone Your right, my mistake. IUTKATSBIDN. Check out http://members.aol.com/nigthomas/alphabet.html It's acronym city. Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: Eric Tonkins >IMHO ... have always been told that it meant ... In My Humble Opinion . From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 12:00:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00265; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:56:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:56:30 -0700 Message-ID: <35E1B699.19A15A1B@harti.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:53:14 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: New RealVideo Movie uploaded ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ukRrm3.0.24.TTRur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5740 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have uploaded a new RealVideo movie of a demo model of the gravitational converter to: http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb05.rm I have spoken the english language introduction on this movie. Please bear with me, cause English is my second language... I hope the principle of operation gets now a bit clearer, although this small model does not work, cause it has too many losses and the integral gear in this model has a flaw... but the main principle of action gets clear ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 13:44:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06535; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:41:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:41:54 -0700 Message-ID: <35E1D239.96250566@servtech.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:51:06 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Waston SMOT same as Hartman? References: <199808230957.FAA31199@fh102.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lH2Sw2.0.0c1.I0Tur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5741 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is Greg Watson's SMOT ramp the same as the following patent of Hartman? If not, what's the difference? 4215330 : Permanent magnet propulsion system INVENTORS: Hartman; Emil T., Detroit, MI ASSIGNEES: Hartman; Ethel, Richmond, IN Helin, Estate of; Charles, Detroit, MI ISSUED: July 29, 1980 FILED: Dec. 20, 1977 SERIAL NUMBER: 862344 MAINT. STATUS: INTL. CLASS (Ed. 2): H01F 007/02; U.S. CLASS: 335/306; 310/012; FIELD OF SEARCH: 310-12-14,15 ; 198-619,381 ; 335-302,306 ; ABSTRACT: A permanent magnet propulsion system wherein a steel ball is propelled up an inclined plane between two rows of permanent bar magnets, said magnets being in spaced relationship with all north seeking poles of one of the said rows facing in substantially the same direction and with all south seeking poles in the other row facing in substantially the same but opposite direction to the first of said rows. The magnetic axes of each of the magnets of the first said row are in staggered relationship to the axes of opposing magnets of the second said row. The magnetic field acting on the ball is configured whereby the ball after reaching the top of the inclined plane is able to drop from the said plane out of the field. A pair of parallel tracks positioned between the spaced rows of magnets guide the ball and a clamping means orient and retain the magnets. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 14:20:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25550; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:19:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:19:33 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Timothy Girard" To: Subject: RE: Waston SMOT same as Hartman? Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:19:14 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bdcfa4$d96fa240$0f71798b@TIMS_DELL.saic.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <35E1D239.96250566@servtech.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"pUWHK.0.3F6.aZTur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5742 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FYI. Here is the link to the exact patent. http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=5402021 -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gray [mailto:rwgray@servtech.com] Sent: Monday, August 24, 1998 1:51 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Waston SMOT same as Hartman? Is Greg Watson's SMOT ramp the same as the following patent of Hartman? If not, what's the difference? 4215330 : Permanent magnet propulsion system INVENTORS: Hartman; Emil T., Detroit, MI ASSIGNEES: Hartman; Ethel, Richmond, IN Helin, Estate of; Charles, Detroit, MI ISSUED: July 29, 1980 FILED: Dec. 20, 1977 SERIAL NUMBER: 862344 MAINT. STATUS: INTL. CLASS (Ed. 2): H01F 007/02; U.S. CLASS: 335/306; 310/012; FIELD OF SEARCH: 310-12-14,15 ; 198-619,381 ; 335-302,306 ; ABSTRACT: A permanent magnet propulsion system wherein a steel ball is propelled up an inclined plane between two rows of permanent bar magnets, said magnets being in spaced relationship with all north seeking poles of one of the said rows facing in substantially the same direction and with all south seeking poles in the other row facing in substantially the same but opposite direction to the first of said rows. The magnetic axes of each of the magnets of the first said row are in staggered relationship to the axes of opposing magnets of the second said row. The magnetic field acting on the ball is configured whereby the ball after reaching the top of the inclined plane is able to drop from the said plane out of the field. A pair of parallel tracks positioned between the spaced rows of magnets guide the ball and a clamping means orient and retain the magnets. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 16:02:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02532; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:58:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:58:44 -0700 Message-ID: <35E1EF63.F8454A64@harti.com> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 00:55:31 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: Updated gravitational converter page ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"09lNr2.0.Ud.Z0Vur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5743 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, have a look at: http://www.overunity.com/gb/index.htm There are now the latest links to all movies regarding the converter. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 16:11:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07839; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:09:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:09:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: sh.diac.com: ekwall2 owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:06:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Waston SMOT same as Hartman? In-Reply-To: <35E1D239.96250566@servtech.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wvsg43.0.Kw1.DAVur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5744 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Robert Gray wrote: Is Greg Watson's SMOT ramp the same as the following patent of Hartman? If not, what's the difference? 4215330 : Permanent magnet propulsion system -snip- (in parts) "direction to the first of said rows. The magnetic axes of each of the magnets of the first said row are in staggered relationship to the axes of opposing magnets of the second said row. " --------------------- Hi Robert, Of course, what I say would have no bearings:) on a court-room observation of similiarites between two designs, but having built a few versions of the SMOT I would say it is _NOT_ the same thing! The above "STAGGERED RELATIONSHIP" is completely foreign in a SMOT set-up. Greg's ramp were BALANCED (magnetically) through-out. -=se=- steve (just the way my fumble-fingers see-it:) ekwall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 16:55:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25149; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:52:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:52:36 -0700 Message-ID: <35E22511.7B3F@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:44:33 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: First RealVideo online of gravitational converter ! References: <35DECC39.88EF8C74@harti.com> <35df58fc.605457975@mail-hub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a9acR2.0.r86.3pVur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5745 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:48:42 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > >Hi, > >there is a first RealVideo Animation now online of the gravitational > >converter > >under: > > > >http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb01.rm > > > Sorry Stephan, an animation proves nothing. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk Check again Robin, While its called an animation, it appears to be a RealVideo format video clip. But I still think it shows nothing special, the propulsion shown can very easily be due to the vibration of the device and the effects of the power line tether. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 17:29:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05711; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:27:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:27:57 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 00:28:46 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35e3ff4c.147636553@mail-hub> References: <199808240524.BAA01592@fh102.infi.net> In-Reply-To: <199808240524.BAA01592@fh102.infi.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WP8161.0.8P1.CKWur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5746 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:01:02 -0500, Meat Truck wrote: [snip] >calculation. This calculation is used in Tesla coils so that by the time >polarity reversal occurs the length of the wire has been transversed by the >electrons. In other words the oscillation can reinforce itself to create The electrons themselves do not "transvers (traverse?) the length of the wire" (BTW traverse means to go across rather than along). The actual speed with which individual electrons migrate under the influence of an imposed electric field in a wire is only a few cm/sec. All that oscillates is the field. The current could also be said to oscillate, but only in its entirety, i.e. the whole mass of the electrons moving together (swaying?) with the field. (Kind of like the supports at a football match. The whole crowd sways, but individuals remain largely in the same place). You also see this when small waves break on the beach. The waves keep arriving, but it's mostly the same water going backward and forward. >high voltage effects. Now what I have been trying to point out is that a >frequency many times higher than this can be observed in air core >inductors. Now if electron propagation is at the speed of light what Therefore electrons don't propagate at the speed of light. Changes in their field sometimes comes close. >happens to those electrons in the middle of the coil that are oscillating >back and forth but not reaching either end of the coil? Can we assume that >more electrons are oscillating in the coil than are actually being inputed? Definitely. The number input per second is equal to the current (in amps) divided by 1.6E-19. The number oscillating is all the free electrons in the wire. I think this is about 1 for every copper atom. Note that as long as the charge on the wire remains constant, the number of electrons in the wire is also constant. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 17:51:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19189; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:49:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:49:48 -0700 Message-ID: <35E20A6F.30851E7F@datacomm.ch> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:50:55 +0200 From: Felix Meyer Reply-To: hb9abx@datacomm.ch Organization: hb9abx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: INET-Workshop Switzerland Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dG6j_.0.kh4.heWur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5747 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Short report about INET Workshop 22./23. August in Switzerland -------------------------------------------------------------- Last weekend a very interesting meeting was held at Egerkingen about ZPE, CF, Vortex phenomenas with speeches and demonstrations. Dr. Josef Gruber presented the state of the art in CF (Cold Fusion) with the Patterson Power Cell which reportedly produced energy output up to 4000 times the energy input. Further more a systen from CETI (Clean Energy Technologies, Inc.) based on the Patterson Transmutation Cell to reduce radiation of radioactive waste. The same process converts the undesired radioactivity into useful electric power. Reports have shown reduction of radio activity of 80% in a few hours of operation. A very promising technology. Dr. Nelson Camus presented several very interesting projects. The NELTRON Cold Fuel Reactor combined with the Turbo Battey converter converts a car motor to run with a mixture of 10% gasoline and 90% water ! This without loosing power or consuming more fuel. This is possible due to a series of transmutation processes. Nelson informed about a project to form a new Automobil Company to develop a new car with the following characteristics: - Power : 185 PS - max.speed : 180 km/hr - consumption : one liter per 100 km The new car company shall be financed by Bill Gates (after demonstration of a working prototype). - A further project which Nelson presented was the Neltron Solar Panel-Trigger. This system shall multiply the efficiency of solar panels more than 5 times over present achievements. - In the evening the solar cell and trigger system and the 10% / 90% combustion system (with transmutation) was demonstrated in funcion. The only problem was, that the claimed figures of improvement and gain could not be verified due to different conditions ... Dr. Hans Weber reported about his tests and measurements of the GEET Plasma reactor (fuel processor) from Paul Pantone. He conducted tests with a 5 kW power generator using a GEET fuel processor (plasma transmutaion of Fuel with and without vapor addition). He reported the following results: (efficiency from gasoline energy to electric output power). 1st test: - efficiency w/o vapor : 18,7% - efficiency with vapor : 21,1% 2nd test: - efficiency w/o vapor : 17,2% - efficiency with vapor : 16,6% Wolfram Bahmann presented several ether-energy projects based on the work of P.A.Correa pulsed abnormal glow discharge and the Casimir effect. A very exciting field with promising technologies, but still at the beginning, as no one could achive so far the 1-Watt challenge from Puthoff. Prof. Alfred Evert explained his exciting ideas in the field of power generators, multipliers, and in Fluid technolgy based on ideas from Schaumbergers Vortex theory. The wide range of ideas from new wind power generators to aircraft machines, new propeller design and ship construcion created new perspectives for power savings and energy generation. Conclusion: a very constructive seminar which filled the heads with new energy. Felix Meyer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 18:17:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28148; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:15:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:15:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199808250116.VAA15536@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:08:03 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Vnklr.0.St6.t0Xur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5748 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Reply from Meat; Well aware of drift velocity, but are you aware of my intrinsic meaning concerning "transverse"? It is convenient to think of wave motion as either transverse or longitudinal. Now I am employing conventional thinking when we say that electron propagation is longitudinal. But in high frequency processes a skin effect takes place. The electrons bump along the surface of the wire. How convenient that internal capacitance would also draw the electrons there, and also that they would be moving in a "transverse manner in regard to the electric field" I stand by my use of words although I always stand to be corrected. Sincerely H Norris mnorris@akron. > From: Robin van Spaandonk > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? > Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 7:28 PM > > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:01:02 -0500, Meat Truck wrote: > [snip] > >calculation. This calculation is used in Tesla coils so that by the time > >polarity reversal occurs the length of the wire has been transversed by the > >electrons. In other words the oscillation can reinforce itself to create > > The electrons themselves do not "transvers (traverse?) the length of > the wire" (BTW traverse means to go across rather than along). > The actual speed with which individual electrons migrate under the > influence of an imposed electric field in a wire is only a few cm/sec. > All that oscillates is the field. The current could also be said to > oscillate, but only in its entirety, i.e. the whole mass of the > electrons moving together (swaying?) with the field. > (Kind of like the supports at a football match. The whole crowd sways, > but individuals remain largely in the same place). > You also see this when small waves break on the beach. The waves keep > arriving, but it's mostly the same water going backward and forward.(aha,the mysterious transversal) > > >high voltage effects. Now what I have been trying to point out is that a > >frequency many times higher than this can be observed in air core > >inductors. Now if electron propagation is at the speed of light what > > Therefore electrons don't propagate at the speed of light. Changes in > their field sometimes comes close. > > >happens to those electrons in the middle of the coil that are oscillating > >back and forth but not reaching either end of the coil? Can we assume that > >more electrons are oscillating in the coil than are actually being inputed? > Definitely. The number input per second is equal to the current (in > amps) divided by 1.6E-19. The number oscillating is all the free > electrons in the wire. I think this is about 1 for every copper atom. > Note that as long as the charge on the wire remains constant, the > number of electrons in the wire is also constant. > [snip] > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 19:10:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17673; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:08:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:08:36 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:09:28 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35e61954.154302136@mail-hub> References: <199808250116.VAA15536@fh102.infi.net> In-Reply-To: <199808250116.VAA15536@fh102.infi.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kX0fV3.0.0K4.ZoXur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5749 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:08:03 -0500, Meat Truck wrote: >Reply from Meat; Well aware of drift velocity, but are you aware of my >intrinsic meaning concerning "transverse"? It is convenient to think of No, I'm afraid I have no idea what you are trying to say. >wave motion as either transverse or longitudinal. Now I am employing >conventional thinking when we say that electron propagation is >longitudinal. But in high frequency processes a skin effect takes place. >The electrons bump along the surface of the wire. How convenient that >internal capacitance would also draw the electrons there, and also that >they would be moving in a "transverse manner in regard to the electric >field" I stand by my use of words although I always stand to be corrected. They may move across the imposed external electric field in order to reach the surface of the wire, however I suspect that they always move longitudinally with regard to the total electric field. This total field however will comprise several components. e.g. 1) The external field. 2) The electric fields resulting from other electrons and ions. 3) The electric fields resulting from changing magnetic fields. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 19:12:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19625; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:11:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:11:07 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: First RealVideo online of gravitational converter ! Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:12:01 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35e71d0e.155256404@mail-hub> References: <35DECC39.88EF8C74@harti.com> <35df58fc.605457975@mail-hub> <35E22511.7B3F@tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <35E22511.7B3F@tiac.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UgqHT3.0.Xo4.xqXur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5750 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:44:33 -0700, Bob Shannon wrote: >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >> >> On Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:48:42 +0200, Stefan Hartmann wrote: >> >> >Hi, >> >there is a first RealVideo Animation now online of the gravitational >> >converter >> >under: >> > >> >http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb01.rm >> > >> Sorry Stephan, an animation proves nothing. >> >> Regards, >> >> Robin van Spaandonk > >Check again Robin, > >While its called an animation, it appears to be a RealVideo format video >clip. Bob, the file I looked at was a true animation. I suspect you may have seen one of the other video clips at the same site. > >But I still think it shows nothing special, the propulsion shown can >very easily be due to the vibration of the device and the effects of >the power line tether. I am also waiting for a "definitive" demo. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 20:00:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12355; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:57:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:57:40 -0700 Message-ID: <35E22A4E.A47A65FF@servtech.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:06:54 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tgirard@aimnet.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Waston SMOT same as Hartman? References: <000001bdcfa4$d96fa240$0f71798b@TIMS_DELL.saic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bXKK81.0.z03.ZWYur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5751 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, I know of the patent. That is where I got the text for. So what is the connection with Greg Watson? Is Greg selling something that someone else patented? I make no claim that Greg is doing anything wrong.... I am just curious to know if Greg knows about the Hartman patent. Timothy Girard wrote: > FYI. > Here is the link to the exact patent. > http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=5402021 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Gray [mailto:rwgray@servtech.com] > Sent: Monday, August 24, 1998 1:51 PM > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Waston SMOT same as Hartman? > > Is Greg Watson's SMOT ramp the same as the following patent of Hartman? > If not, what's the difference? > > 4215330 : Permanent magnet propulsion system > > INVENTORS: > Hartman; Emil T., Detroit, MI > ASSIGNEES: > Hartman; Ethel, Richmond, IN > Helin, Estate of; Charles, Detroit, MI > ISSUED: > July 29, 1980 > > FILED: > Dec. 20, 1977 > SERIAL NUMBER: > 862344 > > MAINT. STATUS: > > INTL. CLASS (Ed. 2): > H01F 007/02; > U.S. CLASS: > 335/306; 310/012; > FIELD OF SEARCH: > 310-12-14,15 ; 198-619,381 ; 335-302,306 ; > > ABSTRACT: A permanent magnet propulsion system wherein a steel ball is > propelled up an inclined plane between two rows > of permanent bar magnets, said magnets being in spaced relationship with all > north seeking poles of one of the said rows facing > in substantially the same direction and with all south seeking poles in the > other row facing in substantially the same but opposite > direction to the first of said rows. The magnetic axes of each of the > magnets > of the first said row are in staggered relationship to > the axes of opposing magnets of the second said row. The magnetic field > acting > on the ball is configured whereby the ball after > reaching the top of the inclined plane is able to drop from the said plane > out > of the field. A pair of parallel tracks positioned > between the spaced rows of magnets guide the ball and a clamping means > orient > and retain the magnets. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 20:19:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22992; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:18:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:18:54 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:19:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808250319.UAA22011@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Transformer core source?? Resent-Message-ID: <"7Di581.0.7d5.TqYur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5752 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken, At 11:02 AM 8/24/98 EDT, you wrote: >Does anyone know offhand of a source for transformer cores (other than >ferrites, I have those). My electronics catalogs have lots of transformers -so >does my local surplus electronics store- but I would prefer to avoid >diaassembly. > Ken Keasy@aol.com > I got some quotes from lamination manufacturers and they were high enough that I've stayed with disassembling older transformers. For example, 1 x 4 inch long pieces( 25 x 100mm) were quoted as $11.75 for a square cross section. 4 x this were needed for a "square" ring core. I look for cores that aren't welded together, like most microwave oven transformers. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 20:21:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23028; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:18:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:18:57 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808250319.UAA22043@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Resent-Message-ID: <"6uKaK.0.hd5.WqYur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5753 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:01 AM 8/14/98 -0500, Meat truck wrote: >At 8/23/98 8:00 PM dave dameron comments on T.E.C. submited by Tim >Vaughan > > >> >THE FREE ELECTRON MODEL >Dont understand meaning of IMHO but if propagation speed c is used across >dimension of coil that might explain things, and this is the conventional >reasoning. But it still does not explain how the electrons are distributed >across the entire length of the wire without having been sent there at >speeds exceeding c which we all assume to be improbable. Personally I feel >that an echo of the incompleted electron journey is created,and then an >echo of an echo until after the required amount of echoes the free >electrons through the entire course of the coil are activated. This of >course implies that electrons are trapped in the coil and that more >electrons are oscillating than are being inputed. H Norris >mnorris@akron.infi.net > > I used "IMHO" as "in my humble opinion", by the way. Do you think electrons would enter one terminal before an equal amount would leave the other? The coil would be temporary charged, and this should be able to be verified by an electrometer or other equipment. Of course the field of the charged coil would propagate through the coil with the coil dimensions being important, not the wire length. The same as the flux fields. Another factor is the field from the source, now also charged, producing a current on the other wire terminal. This still leaves the mid length of the coil. The largest coil I have is about 2 km of wire. 1 km is a wavelength at 300kHz. So far I have seen no effect at 3 uS or so, do you have any suggestions on an experiment? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Aug 24 22:07:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20173; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:06:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:06:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199808250507.BAA16187@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:58:56 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"D1DPP.0.1x4.JPaur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5754 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > 11:01 AM 8/14/98 -0500, Meat truck wrote: > >At 8/23/98 8:00 PM dave dameron comments on T.E.C. submited by Tim > >Vaughan > > > > >> >THE FREE ELECTRON MODEL > > >Dont understand meaning of IMHO but if propagation speed c is used across > >dimension of coil that might explain things, and this is the conventional > >reasoning. But it still does not explain how the electrons are distributed > >across the entire length of the wire without having been sent there at > >speeds exceeding c which we all assume to be improbable. Personally I feel > >that an echo of the incompleted electron journey is created,and then an > >echo of an echo until after the required amount of echoes the free > >electrons through the entire course of the coil are activated. This of > >course implies that electrons are trapped in the coil and that more > >electrons are oscillating than are being inputed. H Norris > >mnorris@akron.infi.net > > > > > I used "IMHO" as "in my humble opinion", by the way. > > Do you think electrons would enter one terminal before an equal amount would > leave the other? > The coil would be temporary charged, and this should be able to be verified > by an electrometer or other equipment. Of course the field of the charged > coil would propagate through the coil with the coil dimensions being > important, not the wire length. The same as the flux fields. > Another factor is the field from the source, now also charged, producing a > current on the other wire terminal. This still leaves the mid length of the > coil. > The largest coil I have is about 2 km of wire. 1 km is a wavelength at 300kHz. > So far I have seen no effect at 3 uS or so, do you have any suggestions on > an experiment? > -Dave I experience quite a bit of frustration trying to understand how everyone else uses this correspondence so easily,and I dont have a clue. Not one of my entrees have fit the format that others use. I would pay someone to teach me how to write letters, but I must be a slow learner. Anyways I used 1500 ft of wire that will produce a quarter wavelength resonant frequency of 166,000 hz. An eighty pound coil of 20,000 winds of 23 gauge will also resonate at the same frequency by different arc gap means which led me to speculate that two different processes were at work. Several questions; What is the resistance and inductance of the 2km coil which is assumed to be air core? What gauge wire and estimation of winds. What is meant by 3 microseconds, are you using a signal generator? Do you have an oscilloscope to monitor the high freq. magnetic field by use of a small inductor coil? I have suggestions but need more information. Too many late nights, correspond later mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 00:05:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19630; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 00:04:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 00:04:15 -0700 Message-ID: <35E261D9.30155B0@t-link.net> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:03:53 -1000 From: Alastair Couper Reply-To: aquarius@t-link.net Organization: aquarian electronics X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: On Coils vs. Transmission Lines Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cKpj81.0.do4.l7cur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5755 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greetings, The very interesting discussion on the nature of what is occuring in very large coils made me reach for an old article in my files: Faster Than Light? H. W. Milnes Ph.D, in Radio Electronics, Jan. 1983. I am not sure if this is important, but it is definately food for thought. He investigates the limits imposed by Maxwell Equations on the speed of propagation of a signal down a wire. He says: >When derived directly from Maxwell's unmodfied equations, the velocity, v, of >sinusoidial waves in transmission lines is given by the formula: v=1/sqrt(LC). >The values of L and C are...the inherent inductance and capacitance on a >per-centimeter basis, in henries and farads, respectively. .... If L and C >were both in the micro-micro (10^-12) range, then v would be greater than c, >and a condition would arise where either the unmodified Maxwell equations >would fail, or the speed of light hypothesis would fail, for the two are >mutually contradictory. He then goes on to describe his experiments which use a very long #35 steel wire (1200') which is strung back and forth between supports to create a very low distributed L and C delay line. He uses a pulse generator and oscilliscope to show that this setup gives rise to over 100x light speed signals going down this line. The photos show that while there is great distortion of the delayed signal, the signal indeed shows very little delay of the initial rising edge. The very large coils used by Newman et al. would depart quite a bit from these conditions. Still, it would be interesting to know how long it does indeed take for a pulse to transit the windings. Just what sort of transmission lines do these coils make? Milnes goes on to test a TV type delay line, and shows that they do actually cause a small glitch to be transmitted instantly, followed by a very distrorted signal later. He says: >It really is a matter of subjective opinion whether the new wave is merely >some deformation of the original, or whether a delay of the input signal has >taken place. While errors in his setup could also do this, I assume he is aware of this. The frequencies he is using are low enough to avoid scope lead reflections. Perhaps the signal transitting a very large coil gets rather dispersed, such that it separates into faster and slower moving components. The 1/sqrt(LC) hypothesis makes no distinction as to frequency, in a free space situation. But waves in matter are very dependant on frequency, so dispersion seems likely. There could a very complicated number of waves moving both fowards and backwards at once in the wire, making the notion of inductance rather useless. It is in these sorts of contradictions that we can find the loopholes for over unity conditions. Regards.... -- Alastair Couper aquarius@ccmaui.net Aquarian Electronics Maui, Hawaii http://www.ccmaui.net/~aquarius/aquarian.htm -- Alastair Couper aquarius@ccmaui.net Aquarian Electronics Maui, Hawaii http://www.ccmaui.net/~aquarius/aquarian.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 01:36:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA02860; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 01:31:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 01:31:10 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:28:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199808250828.KAA20379@imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin@mail.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Re: Watson SMOT same as Hartman? Resent-Message-ID: <"0bUbJ.0.ci.EPdur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5756 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robert Gray wrote : > I am just curious to know if Greg knows about the Hartman patent. Yes, definitely. I remember, in the first weeks Watson discussed the SMOT on both Freenrg and Vortex lists (after his initial annoucement, April 1st, 1997), similarities and differences between the Hartman patent and SMOT (and also the question of the on-going validity of Hartman patent) were discussed at length. Watson, at the time, thought about marketing the SMOT as a "desktop toy gadget". He felt the Hartman patent would be no problem, as his design was obviously different, but it was pointed to him that there would be priority problems, so he axed the marketing idea. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 02:16:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07559; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:15:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:15:35 -0700 Message-ID: <003b01bdd009$89e967a0$2369afce@et-s> From: "Eric Tonkins" To: Subject: Re: Watson SMOT same as Hartman? Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:19:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"0GnTn.0.1s1.t2eur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5757 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, now I'm curious. I've pored over a good deal of the Patent that Hartman applied for in 1977 and was issued in 1980. I do see that Greg Watson may have imitated Hartman's Patent, but that's not what piques my curiosity. What I want to know is ... "Doe's Hartman's Idea work ???" Forget the differences, I want to know if it works. If it works, who cares about the minutia. Also, Steve Ekwall, you mentioned that you have built your own smot's. What were your results? Till Later, Eric Favorite Quote: " Wonderful times only happen to you if you show up. Unless you show up, you'll never have one ! " Eric Tonkins EMail: vegan@sprynet.com Internet: http://my.name.is/free$100drawing4you Voice / Fax: (702) 358-7681 Home Office: 634 Oakwood Dr. # 3, Sparks, NV 89431 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 02:37:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA10163; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:36:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:36:23 -0700 From: bwarken@wuff.mayn.de Message-ID: <19980825113246.A22210@datenbus.mayn.de> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:32:46 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Environmental fears Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 Resent-Message-ID: <"Y1_lW1.0.dU2.MMeur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5758 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Answering to some recent anxious mails: > My guess is that removal of the CO2 will have 10 to 20 times the impact of > the energy consumption. Do not worry about CO2 or green-house - think HAARP and the like. ELF is the major impact on atmospheric effects. The industrial and social waste is bad, but statistically insignificant. That's what many articles in raum&zeit (the first address for free energy in Germany) try to propagate since more than a year. Moreover, I think that an increased CO2, though bad for man, is good for plants. So the plants will prosper, thereby producing more oxygen. Thus the CO2 problem will balance itself on the long run. Smog is ugly, but it's not our major concern. > production, air conditioning and so on. Everytime we convert energy we have > losses in the form of heat! So we accelerate the heating up of the > atmosphere but on the other hand there would be less burning of fossile > fuels. Which effect will be stronger? Free energy is much stronger. It means getting rid of the main waste producers. So environmental health will be established as a second step - even if the experimental stage of some new technology might not be perfect for the environment. Be sure that military will try to stop experiments with free energy by using environmental arguments altho they themselves were and are polluting the whole globe enormously. By the way, our planet is cold. A bit of warmth will be quite comfortable for my taste. The melting of the polar ice will not be as grave as is often said. For the largest part of the ice swims - thus melting will not increase the ocean's volume. Please do not bomb me with mails if you have a different opinion. I do not want to raise a flamy discussion on environmental subjects. Just take the aspects you like - and relax. Bernd Warken (bwarken@mayn.de) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 02:37:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA10189; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:36:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:36:25 -0700 From: bwarken@wuff.mayn.de Message-ID: <19980825113246.A22217@datenbus.mayn.de> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:32:46 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Alternatives for inventors' disease Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 Resent-Message-ID: <"_hD7F1.0.5V2.PMeur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5759 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: William Beaty > All fail, and it may APPEAR that evil forces have suppressed them. But the > only really evil force I see throughout f/e history is inventor secrecy. Wow, you really hit the spot. Great Mail :-) > Is there a way to stay secret, yet get a successful product out? Maybe. > But what if there is not? What if inventor secrecy causes other factors to > become unbeatable? How many lost discoveries must occur before people start > to see secrecy as a problem? Well, how about starting a new style? I think Beat'em or Beaty sounds like a good name for a new project on open inventions. And eskimo.com reminds me of penguines, the symbol for Linux. > Eventually what will happen is that a scientist will stumble across an ou > phenomenon. That scientist will publish. Others will replicate. The world > will enter a new age, and the accolades will go (rightly) to science. > Modern science might suffer from closemindedness and paradigm-worship, but > scientists have discovered the key to progress: turning away from the > secrecy which inventors cling to so fiercely. To get away from the old patent tracks, an alternative scheme for protecting an invention without limiting its usage has to be found. Such schemes exist for free software. There is the international notion of copyright which secures all rights to the author or a group of developers. In a second step, the author can put it under some free license scheme like the GNU copyleft to ensure unlimited free usage of the program except that this free usage may not be limited. Something similar should exist or be created for inventions of free energy devices. We need a cheap and easy protecting mechanism for avoiding misuse of inventions, but without limiting the free public usage. Patents are not suitable, and very expensive and time-consuming anyway. An optimal scheme would be something that prevents that someone else can patent the invention or otherwise block a free development. Is there a patent lawyer or law student or someone with legal experience who could check for such possibilities (without being paid for this information)? Maybe, the legal situation in Northern America with respect to international laws will suit most. European countries are in a process of transformation into a common union. Common laws are in development and have not yet been tested. I am neither a lawyer nor learnt in laws, but my experience with freeware showed me that one has to be very careful with using the right legal stuff. Bernd Warken (bwarken@mayn.de) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 02:41:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA11486; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:39:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:39:34 -0700 From: bwarken@wuff.mayn.de Message-ID: <19980825113246.A22203@datenbus.mayn.de> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:32:46 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Eonomical impact Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 Resent-Message-ID: <"Y_0Em3.0.Lp2.LPeur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5760 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Several people wrote: > Any economists wish to theorise what would happen to the world economy if > FREE-NRG becomes a reality? That would be the best thing that could happen to the bulk of world economics, but not to a minority of very rich firms moving in old lanes leading to a dead end. > Imagine 1.5 billion chinese and about 5 billion other people having free > energy for whatever they want, mobility, production, air conditioning and so > on. Fine - not only for China :-) > The economic impact will be enormous, but the ecological impact will be much > more threatening. Some years ago, these same fears existed in the commercial software industry when the free software started to get ground. Nowadays 26% off all internet servers run the free operating system Linux as an industrial statists says. But no one in software industry was knocked down so far. Just in the contrary, new profitable service areas arose. Many formerly commercial firms even turned towards producing and releasing software for free - with an increase in profit, due to the "bazaar" method. The same could happen with free energy. Many people have to join for constructing free energy devices in non-profit projects in order to not reinvent the wheel a million times. In short: think about the planet not about money. Is this the right maillist for things like that? Bernd (bwarken@mayn.de) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 03:19:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA19554; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 03:18:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 03:18:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: sh.diac.com: ekwall2 owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 04:16:23 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Watson SMOT same as Hartman? In-Reply-To: <003b01bdd009$89e967a0$2369afce@et-s> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"60xHg1.0.Sn4.rzeur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5761 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Eric Tonkins wrote: I've pored over a good deal of the Patent that Hartman applied for in 1977 and was issued in 1980. I do see that Greg Watson may have imitated Hartman's Patent, but that's not what piques my curiosity. What I want to know is ... "Doe's Hartman's Idea work ???" Forget the differences, I want to know if it works. If it works, who cares about the minutia. Also, Steve Ekwall, you mentioned that you have built your own smot's. What were your results? ----------------------------------------- Hi Eric, The BALLS GO ~UP~ the RAMP?! Well, *YES* Hartman & Watson's ramps DO WORK! you should start with maybe smot ii or iii on Greg's page for hands on testing.. only cost about $10.00 in radio shack magnets. BOTH RAMPS PULL a ball (or MASS) UPHILL - truely AMAZING to feel and watch. This was discussed extensively in past archive if you want to do a search on smot. The problem if any was these are magnets attracting metal. [OK] even uphill that works. Greg introduced a "Blue-Hole" region at the TOP of his smot that allow the ball to FALL-THROUGH (no-back pull from the magnets, as it appeared to be a null-flux area there (if adjusted properly) WE, Others/I had a similar initial reaction what your thinking know tried to close the loop as it were, so a ball would use this 'excess?' k-energy or appearent anomaly and link them together. see my attempt(s) at closed loop at http://www.diac.com/ekwall2/ffsmot. The missing factor here is what was termed "ROLL-AWAY", The ball actually rolling farther away than the mass it had stored at its level starting place. I had hundreds of roll-a-ways many longer than others, but as the list compared height vs mass, it became appearent(?) that a tilted table might fudge the results. level is not level is level etc. Your hand adds physical energy to get it up and onto the track, the ball DOES go up from there to the top of the ramp and returns to where it started (no energy lost, no energy gained(?) When totally working (AND IT DOES WORK!:) one might turn the whole thing 180 degrees around and it doesn't work... bummer:( SMOT also has the unique ability of having less = more! In other words, don't use more magnets for the pull up. they are _NOT_ required to see the effect, and even henders it: (sucks the metal ball OFF the track:) It's a delicate balance, and so we're back to N/S S/N nullification. -------- It's one of the closest O/U I've seen though for under $10.00 that anyone can try, and Greg's later attempts were to give it a coil type boost-kick to break the 50/50 (n/s s/n) o/u barrier. I still wouldn't be surprised If this is not another one that "REALLY" Works. Post me off-list, If I can help you with any construction techniques. There are many good links off Gregs page for others who have done the same thing. http://www.microtronics.co.au/~gwatson best to you & yours -=se=- steve (see his latest updates) ekwall ekwall2@diac.com I say it DOES WORK as that little ball _GOES_ RIGHT UP THE RAMP & OFF THE OTHER SIDE!.. HOW FAR OFF THE OTHER SIDE, IS WHERE THE CASE REMAINS AS OF THIS DATE! Let us know if/when you get level 'roll-away' with yours. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 04:19:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA30203; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 04:17:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 04:17:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: sh.diac.com: ekwall2 owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 05:15:51 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Watson SMOT same as Hartman? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Gf_g82.0.jN7.crfur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5762 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Steve Ekwall wrote: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Eric Tonkins wrote: Also, Steve Ekwall, you mentioned that you have built your own smot's. What were your results? ----------------------------------------- Hi Eric, The BALLS GO ~UP~ the RAMP?! anomaly and link them together. see my attempt(s) at closed loop at http://www.diac.com/~ekwall2/ffsmot ^ sorry - tilde - left out :} -=se=- steve (sun-rising, off to bed for a few) ekwall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 06:14:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA06103; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 06:13:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 06:13:18 -0700 Message-ID: <35E2B88E.2AB9ADE0@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:13:50 -0600 From: Henry Curtis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Transformer core source?? References: <199808250319.UAA22011@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DuL8q3.0.HV1.jXhur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5763 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: dave dameron wrote: > Hi Ken, > At 11:02 AM 8/24/98 EDT, you wrote: > >Does anyone know offhand of a source for transformer cores (other than > >ferrites, I have those). My electronics catalogs have lots of transformers -so > >does my local surplus electronics store- but I would prefer to avoid > >diaassembly. > > Ken Keasy@aol.com > > > I got some quotes from lamination manufacturers and they were high enough > that I've stayed with disassembling older transformers. For example, 1 x 4 > inch long pieces( 25 x 100mm) were quoted as $11.75 for a square cross > section. 4 x this were needed for a "square" ring core. I look for cores > that aren't welded together, like most microwave oven transformers. > -Dave Hi Dave and others, Although I haven't been looking for x-former lams, problems of this type will often yield to the following approach. Find a list of manufactures in Thomas Registry. Its available on line and in all larger librarys. I like to select the ones with 800 numbers. Call them and ask to speak with engineering. Tell the folks what you want. They often are persoanlly interested and are happy to discuss your project with you. Manufactures are generally set up to supply peices by the millions. For our projects we only want a few. Many times engineering has sent me more parts than I needed as samples. They don't charge for samples nor for shipping. They are FREE when procured this way. Some where in this process someone wants to know what company you are with. Don't let this be a problem. If you want them to come to your home just form a comany (with yourself) befor you call. Bla bla Labs, Bla bla Testing Consultants are a couple of examples. They don't care what the company is. They are avoiding the legal libality of dealing in the retail area. Hope this helps, Henry Curtis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 07:46:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01217; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:44:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:44:28 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808251445.HAA16364@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Resent-Message-ID: <"18T5K3.0.sI.Ctiur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5764 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Meat truck and all, At 10:58 PM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >.. >I experience quite a bit of frustration trying to understand how everyone >else uses this correspondence so easily,and I dont have a clue. Not one of >my entrees have fit the format that others use. I would pay someone to >teach me how to write letters, but I must be a slow learner. Anyways I used >1500 ft of wire that will produce a quarter wavelength resonant frequency >of 166,000 hz. An eighty pound coil of 20,000 winds of 23 gauge will also >resonate at the same frequency by different arc gap means which led me to >speculate that two different processes were at work. Several questions; >What is the resistance and inductance of the 2km coil which is assumed to >be air core? What gauge wire and estimation of winds. What is meant by 3 >microseconds, are you using a signal generator? Do you have an >oscilloscope to monitor the high freq. magnetic field by use of a small >inductor coil? I have suggestions but need more information. Too many late >nights, correspond later mnorris@akron.infi.net > I'm not sure what about your post formats you are frustrated with. My coil is 7600 turns No. 24 AWG gauge wire. The bore is about 5 cm, air core. The resistance is 190 Ohms. I measure the inductance at 60 Hz as 2.5H I have driven the coil with a DC power supply and a MOSFET driven by digital pulses. I see no unusual voltage or current characteristics around 3 uS or so. There is an initial current pulse due to the capacitance, over by 3 uS. My test equipment isn't adequate to look at times less than about 200nS. For waveforms with various coils, see Jean-Louis' pages: http://members.aol.com/overunity4/html/tepv21.htm and the following ones on TEP circuits. For some discussions on driving inductors and transient effects, see Greg Watson's page: Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/pmod.html (Pmod) -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 09:26:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09498; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:23:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:23:41 -0700 Message-ID: <006301bdd044$ad40caa0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: , Subject: Re: FTL Transmission Lines Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:22:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"4TBSC2.0.6K2.CKkur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5767 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Alastair I've tried similar experiments to the one you described, with all sorts of arrangements of wire, all about 300m long. My measurements always resulted slower than what I had calculated, never faster. Any ideas on how the transmission line was set up in the experiment you describe. I tried the obvious straight line as well. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk -----Original Message----- From: Alastair Couper From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 09:26:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09549; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:23:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:23:46 -0700 Message-ID: <006201bdd044$ac3d6460$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Environmental fears Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:13:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"sM8lp3.0.oK2.FKkur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5768 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bernd and all I'm glad that you can see through all this propaganda crap force fed to us by the media. When you here it on the news, you take it for granted that its true. Hmmmm..... Here are some statements I have heard over recent years: "If the Polar Ice-Caps melt, world sea levels will rise 20 metres" (recent) 85% of Polar ice is submerged. Sea levels would probably fall. (Can't be bothered calculating anything) "At the current rate of deforestation, oxygen levels will not support human life within 20 years" (Sometime in the 1980's) My upturned test-tube in water complete with iron filings still shows 1/5 oxygen "All fossil fuel reserves will be depleted by 1995" (Sometime in the 1970's) I've just driven to the shops to buy some tabs in my new gas-guzzler "We predict that the average global temperature will fall by" (sometime in the 1970's) They got their funding, then changed it to "We predict the average global temperature will increase by..." "Heavy metal contamination, etc. etc. etc....." All crap. I wish that scientific institutions would find some other ways of receiving funding other talking absolute crap. (NASA included) Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk Todays favourite quote: 88.2 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot (Vic Reeves) Yesterdays favourite quote: The couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..... (forgot who, some war general or something) -----Original Message----- From: bwarken@wuff.mayn.de From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 09:26:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09422; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:23:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:23:35 -0700 Message-ID: <006001bdd044$aa99c680$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Fw: Signal transit timers Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:17:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"W3T4l3.0.yI2.5Kkur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5765 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: David Callaghan To: stk@sunherald.infi.net ; vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday 25 August 1998 10:47 Subject: Re: Signal transit timers >Kyle > >I have a home made 2GHz ECL counter that I use. It was very expensive to >make however. I could supply you with a complete counter on a PCB, complete >with LED display, that will measure frequency from 0 to 10Mhz with an >accuracy of 0.1Hz, and periodic timings with an accuracy of 100nS, for about >USD 100.00. > >Best regards >David Callaghan >DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kyle R. Mcallister > > >>Hello All: >> >>Does anyone here know where I can get something that will measure the >>transit time of a signal from transmitter to reciever, preferably being >>acurate down to the nanoseconds? I will need to measure speeds of around >>300,000km/sec for a radio wave signal. >> >>Thanks, >>Kyle R. Mcallister > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 09:27:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09453; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:23:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:23:38 -0700 Message-ID: <006101bdd044$ab7b9b00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: SMOT's Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:37:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"qXd2A2.0.NJ2.7Kkur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5766 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Everyone Did anyone ever get more than one 'roll-around' on their SMOT? I sure didn't. I think Greg Watson imagined that continuous 'roll-arounds' would work when he offered to sell the devices. When he machined a really nice one out of a solid block of polycarbonate, he discovered that it doesn't work like I did. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk -----Original Message----- From: Steve Ekwall >Hi Eric, > The BALLS GO ~UP~ the RAMP?! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 10:57:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21139; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:55:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:55:38 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01bdd051$2639ea20$e5882599@default> Reply-To: "Clyde Knight Jr." From: "Clyde Knight Jr." To: Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:52:32 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"wgCxk2.0.DA5.Pglur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5769 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Bernd Warken There is a way to protect ideas, inventions and innovations prior to patents and prototypes. There are many companies out there that offer similar services. But the prices vary greatly. Intellectual Technology a subsidiary of Knite Enterprises Inc., offer our services at competitive rates. Please visit us by clicking on the following hypertlink - http://www.angelfire.com/biz/kniteenterprises/inventor.html Then check the competition and compare prices and services. Many offer and charge individual inventors for information that is realistically filler information - in other words information that is readily available for free from other sources if one had the time to research for it. Knite Enterprises Inc., charges the individual inventor for information that is pertinent to assisting the individual inventor in protecting their concepts. After visiting Us on the WWW you will then be in a position to make an informed decision. Thanks in advance for your interest in Knite Enterprises Inc. Warmest regards, Clyde Knight Jr. Owner --Original Message---- From: bwarken@wuff.mayn.de To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 5:39 AM Subject: Alternatives for inventors' disease >From: William Beaty > >> All fail, and it may APPEAR that evil forces have suppressed them. But the >> only really evil force I see throughout f/e history is inventor secrecy. > >Wow, you really hit the spot. Great Mail :-) > >> Is there a way to stay secret, yet get a successful product out? Maybe. >> But what if there is not? What if inventor secrecy causes other factors to >> become unbeatable? How many lost discoveries must occur before people start >> to see secrecy as a problem? > >Well, how about starting a new style? I think Beat'em or Beaty sounds like a >good name for a new project on open inventions. And eskimo.com reminds me of >penguines, the symbol for Linux. > >> Eventually what will happen is that a scientist will stumble across an ou >> phenomenon. That scientist will publish. Others will replicate. The world >> will enter a new age, and the accolades will go (rightly) to science. >> Modern science might suffer from closemindedness and paradigm-worship, but >> scientists have discovered the key to progress: turning away from the >> secrecy which inventors cling to so fiercely. > >To get away from the old patent tracks, an alternative scheme for protecting >an invention without limiting its usage has to be found. > >Such schemes exist for free software. There is the international notion of >copyright which secures all rights to the author or a group of developers. In >a second step, the author can put it under some free license scheme like the >GNU copyleft to ensure unlimited free usage of the program except that this >free usage may not be limited. > >Something similar should exist or be created for inventions of free energy >devices. We need a cheap and easy protecting mechanism for avoiding misuse of >inventions, but without limiting the free public usage. Patents are not >suitable, and very expensive and time-consuming anyway. An optimal scheme >would be something that prevents that someone else can patent the invention or >otherwise block a free development. > >Is there a patent lawyer or law student or someone with legal experience who >could check for such possibilities (without being paid for this information)? > >Maybe, the legal situation in Northern America with respect to international >laws will suit most. European countries are in a process of transformation >into a common union. Common laws are in development and have not yet been >tested. > >I am neither a lawyer nor learnt in laws, but my experience with freeware >showed me that one has to be very careful with using the right legal stuff. > >Bernd Warken (bwarken@mayn.de) > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 14:20:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA30038; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:17:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:17:50 -0700 Message-ID: <35E327AB.56940DDE@t-link.net> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:07:55 -1000 From: Alastair Couper Reply-To: aquarius@t-link.net Organization: aquarian electronics X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Faster Than Light? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Vh0f82.0.FL7.-dour"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5770 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A somewhat poor and sizeable scan of the Milnes article Faster Than Light? is at http://www.ccmaui.net/~aquarius/ftl.html. -- Alastair Couper aquarius@ccmaui.net Aquarian Electronics Maui, Hawaii http://www.ccmaui.net/~aquarius/aquarian.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 14:23:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA30579; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:19:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:19:14 -0700 From: bwarken@wuff.mayn.de Message-ID: <19980825231537.A947@datenbus.mayn.de> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:15:37 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Environmental fears Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 Resent-Message-ID: <"hsndO.0.NT7.Gfour"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5772 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 14:23:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA30560; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:19:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:19:12 -0700 From: bwarken@wuff.mayn.de Message-ID: <19980825231536.A940@datenbus.mayn.de> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:15:36 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: HAARP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 Resent-Message-ID: <"eTxWc3.0.FT7.Ffour"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5771 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > What is "...HAARP and the like. ELF..." ELF = Extremely Low (electro-magnetic) Frequencies, even < 1 Hz (or cps). Various military applications, also having psychic effects on human beings. HAARP = big military ELF ionosphere heater in Alaska. I think that the eskimo.com people should know about this plague. Also there was a discussion on these topics in the USA-TESLA mailing list. Bernd (bwarken@mayn.de) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 14:28:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00769; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:22:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:22:34 -0700 From: bwarken@wuff.mayn.de Message-ID: <19980825231901.A1030@datenbus.mayn.de> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:19:01 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Environmental fears Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 Resent-Message-ID: <"bK_u_1.0.kB.Oiour"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5773 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Maybe a final remark on the environmental stuff is alright. I'm just saying that inventors should not be environmental nerds during their experiments. But otherwise I am an moderate environmental nerd (sold my car). > I'm glad that you can see through all this propaganda crap force fed to us > by the media. When you here it on the news, you take it for granted that > its true. Hmmmm..... That's too general. It was a very positive step that environmental awareness moved into the media, it is not propaganda. > Here are some statements I have heard over recent years: > "We predict that the average global temperature will fall by" (sometime in > the 1970's) They got their funding, then changed it to "We predict the > average global temperature will increase by..." Both predictions were right at their time. As you know, all physical situations arise from several factors, maybe even controversal. They all add up, thus creating the observable situation. Today the whole basic environmental prerequisites have changed. Mankind had unexpected help from some very good friends such that many seemingly unevitable disasters did not occur. > I wish that scientific institutions would find some other ways of receiving > funding other talking absolute crap. (NASA included) One has to be very careful because even some bad guys checked that it's quite handy to use environmental topics for creating fear and thus controlling the masses in the same way as they did during the cold war. So there will be environmental propaganda in future years, as soon as they can get money out of it. A possible strategy is to argue against conservative media in order that they will include environmental news of all kind, and to observe and eventually calm other media. Bernd (bwarken@mayn.de) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 14:34:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09879; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:32:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:32:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:33:26 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: On Coils vs. Transmission Lines In-Reply-To: <35E261D9.30155B0@t-link.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0tcMj2.0.BQ2.jrour"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5774 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Alastair Couper wrote: > He then goes on to describe his experiments which use a very long #35 > steel wire (1200') which is strung back and forth between supports to > create a very low distributed L and C delay line. He uses a pulse > generator and oscilliscope to show that this setup gives rise to over > 100x light speed signals going down this line. The photos show that > while there is great distortion of the delayed signal, the signal indeed > shows very little delay of the initial rising edge. How does he keep the signal from leaping between adjacent parts of the wire? If the wire is strung back and forth, then there is a problem. One part of the wire can act like a transformer primary, while another part can act like the secondary. When a pulse is injected, the pulse can essentially jump through space, from wire to wire, rather than following the length of the wire itself. > The very large coils used by Newman et al. would depart quite a bit from these > conditions. Still, it would be interesting to know how long it does indeed take > for a pulse to transit the windings. Just what sort of transmission lines do > these coils make? In theory, unless it is wound from coax, a coil makes a terrible transmission line. In theory the signal leaks from turn to turn, so that the "transformer effect" causes a narrow pulse to be converted into thousands of separate pulses, in other words a "smeared" pulse. Part of the applied pulse would jump directly from the first turn of the coil to the last turn, which would give the *illusion* of going faster than light, when in reality it skipped over the major part of the coil. This "turns jumping" effect keeps us from making simple experiments to test the speed of light. It can mislead us into believing that we've found a violation of "c", when all we really have done is to show that a pulse can jump from the primary of a transformer to its secondary. A more conventional effect of "turns jumping": if I hook two identical coils in series, I get twice the inductance, BUT if I wind the two coils on top of each other, I get around four times the inductance. Why? Because of transformer effect. Each turn adds its own inductance, but each turn can also "hear" the magnetic field from all the other turns in the coil. When we add N more turns, we get N^2 more inductance. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 14:34:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10318; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:33:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:33:14 -0700 Message-ID: <004401bdd046$120be720$081262d1@lpatterson> From: "Axehandler" To: Subject: Re: Closed-Loop SMOT's Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:33:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"_UWL21.0.7X2.Psour"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5775 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have seen some of the closed Loop systems and was wondering if anyone has tried a closed TRACK system to keep the ball from jumping the track? you know.. like 2 side tracks and a top track so the ball can't quite escape the track? Larry AkA: Axehandler >Hi Eric, > The BALLS GO ~UP~ the RAMP?! > > Well, *YES* Hartman & Watson's ramps DO WORK! you should start with >maybe smot ii or iii on Greg's page for hands on testing.. only cost about >$10.00 in radio shack magnets. BOTH RAMPS PULL a ball >(or MASS) UPHILL - truely AMAZING to feel and watch. This was discussed >extensively in past archive if you want to do a search on smot. The >problem if any was these are magnets attracting metal. [OK] even uphill >that works. Greg introduced a "Blue-Hole" region at the TOP of his smot >that allow the ball to FALL-THROUGH (no-back pull from the magnets, as it >appeared to be a null-flux area there (if adjusted properly) WE, Others/I >had a similar initial reaction what your thinking know tried to close the >loop as it were, so a ball would use this 'excess?' k-energy or appearent >anomaly and link them together. see my attempt(s) at closed loop at >http://www.diac.com/ekwall2/ffsmot. > The missing factor here is what was termed "ROLL-AWAY", The ball >actually rolling farther away than the mass it had stored at its level >starting place. I had hundreds of roll-a-ways >many longer than others, but as the list compared height vs mass, it >became appearent(?) that a tilted table might fudge the results. level is >not level is level etc. Your hand adds physical energy to get it up >and onto the track, the ball DOES go up from there to the top of the >ramp and returns to where it started (no energy lost, no energy >gained(?) When totally working (AND IT DOES WORK!:) >one might turn the whole thing 180 degrees around and it doesn't work... >bummer:( >SMOT also has the unique ability of having less = more! In other words, >don't use more magnets for the pull up. they are _NOT_ required to see the >effect, and even henders it: (sucks the metal ball OFF the track:) >It's a delicate balance, and so we're back to N/S S/N nullification. >-------- >It's one of the closest O/U I've seen though for under $10.00 that anyone >can try, >and Greg's later attempts were to give it a coil type boost-kick to break >the 50/50 (n/s s/n) o/u barrier. > >I still wouldn't be surprised If this is not another one that "REALLY" >Works. Post me off-list, If I can help you with any construction >techniques. There are many good links off Gregs page for others who have >done the same thing. http://www.microtronics.co.au/~gwatson > >best to you & yours >-=se=- >steve (see his latest updates) ekwall >ekwall2@diac.com > >I say it DOES WORK as that little ball _GOES_ RIGHT UP THE RAMP & OFF THE >OTHER SIDE!.. HOW FAR OFF THE OTHER SIDE, IS WHERE THE CASE REMAINS AS OF >THIS DATE! Let us know if/when you get level 'roll-away' with yours. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 14:41:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14241; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:39:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:39:22 -0700 Message-ID: <005901bdd046$ecb33ea0$081262d1@lpatterson> From: "Axehandler" To: Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:38:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Lg7M63.0.QU3.9your"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5776 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Shouldn't it be possiable to take your IDEA.. transfer it to paper and have it NOTERIZED? since the date is part of the noterization process you would have a dated record that the US would concider official.. it may not be a patent, but it is a record that should hold up in court =) Larry AkA: Axehandler >To: Bernd Warken > >There is a way to protect ideas, inventions and innovations prior to patents >and prototypes. There are many companies out there that offer similar >services. But the prices vary greatly. Intellectual Technology a subsidiary >of Knite Enterprises Inc., offer our services at competitive rates. Please >visit us by clicking on the following hypertlink - >http://www.angelfire.com/biz/kniteenterprises/inventor.html > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 15:13:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27268; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:09:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:09:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: sh.diac.com: ekwall2 owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:07:26 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Environmental fears : I concure In-Reply-To: <19980825231537.A947@datenbus.mayn.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9YRPo2.0.zf6.bOpur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5777 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998 bwarken@wuff.mayn.de wrote: From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 16:05:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25600; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:02:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:02:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: sh.diac.com: ekwall2 owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:00:31 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Closed-Loop SMOT's In-Reply-To: <004401bdd046$120be720$081262d1@lpatterson> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Dlh8C.0.rF6.JAqur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5778 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Axehandler wrote: >I have seen some of the closed Loop systems and was wondering if anyone >has tried a closed TRACK system to keep the ball from jumping the track? >you know.. like 2 side tracks and a top track so the ball can't quite escape >the track? > >Larry >AkA: Axehandler >Hi Eric, > The BALLS GO ~UP~ the RAMP?! ---------------------- Hi Larry, Yes, MANY forms were tried: 1:Squared 'caged' sides, top, bottom as you described (Good Idea BTW:) Very tricky construction. 2:Scooped Slide (like a stick of conduit ~cut length wise~, cut it first, then bend it to shape, unless you have a band-saw. 3:Complete TUBE as in conduit bent to shape (METAL - raised magnetic field flux questions?)(while PLASTIC -large 1-1/2, 2"fish-tank air supply type seemed better) Magnets could then be secured to the outside (glued? clamps recommended until you find out where to put them "exactly".) Hope this helps Good Luck -=se=- ekwall2@diac.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 17:35:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29424; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:31:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:31:34 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808260032.RAA25433@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: FTL Transmission Lines Resent-Message-ID: <"AAKYR.0.dB7.bTrur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5779 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi David and all, At 05:22 PM 8/25/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Alastair > >I've tried similar experiments to the one you described, with all sorts of >arrangements of wire, all about 300m long. > >My measurements always resulted slower than what I had calculated, never >faster. >Any ideas on how the transmission line was set up in the experiment you >describe. I tried the obvious straight line as well. > >Best regards >David Callaghan >DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk > Milne's article was in the Jan 1983 issue of "Radio Electronics". He used a square frame 1 meter across. (It could have been larger, up to 2 m?). He strung the wire back and forth, each length 1 cm away from the previous and next length. Each such layer had about 100m of wire. He used 3 layers above each other, the first and third strung along one axis, the second at 90 deg. For a 1 meter frame this would be 300+ m of wire. He also tried one loop, much larger. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 19:50:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA18544; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:48:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:48:20 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808260249.TAA08642@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: On Coils vs. Transmission Lines Resent-Message-ID: <"Jry9f2.0.gX4.qTtur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5780 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill and all, At 02:33 PM 8/25/98 -0700, William Beaty wrote: >On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Alastair Couper wrote: > >> He then goes on to describe his experiments which use a very long #35 >> steel wire (1200') which is strung back and forth between supports to >> create a very low distributed L and C delay line. He uses a pulse >> generator and oscilliscope to show that this setup gives rise to over >> 100x light speed signals going down this line. The photos show that >> while there is great distortion of the delayed signal, the signal indeed >> shows very little delay of the initial rising edge. > >How does he keep the signal from leaping between adjacent parts of the >wire? If the wire is strung back and forth, then there is a problem. One >part of the wire can act like a transformer primary, while another part >can act like the secondary. When a pulse is injected, the pulse can >essentially jump through space, from wire to wire, rather than following >the length of the wire itself. > I agree that this may have had a large effect in the Milne experiment. There can also be capacitive coupling between lengths of the wire. >In theory, unless it is wound from coax, a coil makes a terrible >transmission line. In theory the signal leaks from turn to turn, so that >the "transformer effect" causes a narrow pulse to be converted into >thousands of separate pulses, in other words a "smeared" pulse. Part of >the applied pulse would jump directly from the first turn of the coil to >the last turn, which would give the *illusion* of going faster than light, >when in reality it skipped over the major part of the coil. I now don't think that even coax will eliminate the transformer effect. In a recent experiment I wound a transformer secondary with coax. I measured the same voltage on the inner conductor as a unshielded sec. with the same number of turns. Today I tested 2 coils, both with the same number of turns, 15, spacing, etc. One was wound with regular hookup wire, the other was with RG-59A coax. The inductance, measured by the resonant frequency with a capacitor, was the same for each, within 10%. > >This "turns jumping" effect keeps us from making simple experiments to >test the speed of light. It can mislead us into believing that we've >found a violation of "c", when all we really have done is to show that a >pulse can jump from the primary of a transformer to its secondary. -Dave > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 19:55:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20418; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:52:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:52:52 -0700 Message-ID: <000801bdd09c$1af855c0$80a2fbd0@default> Reply-To: "Clyde Knight Jr." From: "Clyde Knight Jr." To: Subject: Re: Environmental fears Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:47:53 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"YYBAX1.0.y-4.3Ytur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5781 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Finally some one with some common sense. I agree most people will believe the public lie rather than trusting their own common sense. Thanks for the revelation to the scientific communities sale of their souls for the sake of money and acceptance. Please read a message sent to another Distinguished Scientist who in my opinion also has his two feet planted firmly on the ground and exhibits a tremendous amount of common sense. -----Original Message----- To: David Callaghan Hi, I read your brief...could you please expand your explanation. What other powerful mechanisms control the earths climate. I deduced that the earth being a vast self contained eco-system periodically cleans itself and finds that equilibrium to maintain a stable enviornment. I further believe that the solars winds combined with the magnetism of the Van Allen radiation belt along with the many properties of the atmosphere all compliment each other working to maintain the Earth. And since mankind is new to this scene we have no frame of reference for the different events that we are witnessing at the moment in regards to the atmosphere and the climatic changes. I believe that every few hundred years or so that the cleansing cycle is activated and the ozone shield opens and allows the accumulated atmospheric toxins out into space. The climatic changes along with other weather anomalies are a temporary side effect of this process. Humans did not create this eco sytem and can not destroy it. This whole issue is a political power grab by those who desire to make money and secure political niches by creating public panic. This is my objective but very humble opinion...what do you think...is it plausible or just my imagination. Clyde Knight Jr. Knite Enterprises Inc http://www.angelfire.com/biz/kniteenterises/inventor.html -----Original Message----- From: David Callaghan To: energeon@microtec.net ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, July 30, 1998 3:38 AM Subject: Re: OT: Energy consumption affecting global warming >Patrick > >Yes, humans have causes widespread damage to the planet, most of it >accompanied with scare-mongering from world 'scientists'. Fifty years ago >it was predicted that with the number of trees left today that the planet >would suffocate. I can still breath. > >CO2 is seen as a major factor in global warming. However, the current >output of CO2, which is a considerable amount is NOT affecting the heat >retention of the planet at all. As I said, all the temperature rises (and >falls) of the last 200 years fit perfectly with predected levels using the >Sun's output. > >The gas mixtures on Earth are regulated by more complex and powerful >mechanisms than trees and humans alone. Sure, with our present activity, we >are affecting the 'brew' somewhat, but not enough to be measured. > >David Callaghan >David Callaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk > > > > -----Original Message----- From: David Callaghan To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Environmental fears >Hi Bernd and all > >I'm glad that you can see through all this propaganda crap force fed to us >by the media. When you here it on the news, you take it for granted that >its true. Hmmmm..... > >Here are some statements I have heard over recent years: > >"If the Polar Ice-Caps melt, world sea levels will rise 20 metres" (recent) >85% of Polar ice is submerged. Sea levels would probably fall. (Can't be >bothered calculating anything) > >"At the current rate of deforestation, oxygen levels will not support human >life within 20 years" (Sometime in the 1980's) >My upturned test-tube in water complete with iron filings still shows 1/5 >oxygen > >"All fossil fuel reserves will be depleted by 1995" (Sometime in the 1970's) >I've just driven to the shops to buy some tabs in my new gas-guzzler > >"We predict that the average global temperature will fall by" (sometime in >the 1970's) >They got their funding, then changed it to "We predict the average global >temperature will increase by..." > >"Heavy metal contamination, etc. etc. etc....." >All crap. > >I wish that scientific institutions would find some other ways of receiving >funding other talking absolute crap. (NASA included) > > >Best regards > >David Callaghan >DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk > >Todays favourite quote: >88.2 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot (Vic Reeves) > >Yesterdays favourite quote: >The couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..... (forgot who, some war general >or something) > >-----Original Message----- >From: bwarken@wuff.mayn.de > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 20:03:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23673; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:00:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:00:51 -0700 Message-ID: <002801bdd09d$3b85a8a0$80a2fbd0@default> Reply-To: "Clyde Knight Jr." From: "Clyde Knight Jr." To: Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:57:13 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"xlrz_1.0.in5.Wftur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5782 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, It is not a good idea to just draw a concept on paper and mail it to yourself. This will not hold up in court because you will not be able to prove that you are the original inventor. Warmest regards, Clyde knight Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Axehandler To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 5:42 PM Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease >Shouldn't it be possiable to take your IDEA.. transfer it to paper and have >it NOTERIZED? > >since the date is part of the noterization process you would have a dated >record that the US would concider official.. it may not be a patent, but it >is a record that should hold up in court =) > >Larry >AkA: Axehandler > > > >>To: Bernd Warken >> >>There is a way to protect ideas, inventions and innovations prior to >patents >>and prototypes. There are many companies out there that offer similar >>services. But the prices vary greatly. Intellectual Technology a subsidiary >>of Knite Enterprises Inc., offer our services at competitive rates. Please >>visit us by clicking on the following hypertlink - >>http://www.angelfire.com/biz/kniteenterprises/inventor.html >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 21:25:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17379; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:23:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:23:36 -0700 Message-ID: <03ee01bdd0a8$f1d08660$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: VORTEX and inventors' disease Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:11:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"FNgPf3.0.SF4.7tuur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5783 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I agree with you 100% with the points you make here, and science will always win out over anything many people are doing here on the keelynet list because of their paranoia. Certainly there are some bright inventive souls that are willing to have a more open exchange, if you could just convince them to forget about money. -----Original Message----- From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, August 22, 1998 3:46 AM Subject: VORTEX and inventors' disease >On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, David Callaghan wrote: > >> I would be interested in Jerry W Decker or Bill B's comments on this >> topic > >I would say, try to benefit from historical hindsight. > >Why is there no known, replicable "free energy" device anywhere? >If we assume that past discoveries were real, then it seems clear that all >of them died with their inventors. A quick list from memory: > > Hubbard coil > Hendershot device > Schauberger device > Moray device > Sweet device > >Why were these "suppressed"? Inventor secrecy. Suppressed because they >were discovered by inventors rather than scientists, and inventors tend to >keep their discoveries secret in order to make a living from them. If an >inventor fails to produce a saleable product, then the secret dies. If an >inventor patents the device, then there still may be hope, but inventors >sometimes hold back key secrets from patents (and obviously there is a >barrier to patenting a f/e device.) Trade secrets work fine in most other >areas of invention, but history shows that trade secrets are the kiss of >death in the f/e arena. > >Not so with science, science (if it is done right) requires that the >secret be released, that independent teams try to duplicate the discovery. >Science progresses because discoveries are published. Yes, some >scientists patent their discovery and grow wealthy. That's not my point. >SCIENTISTS PUBLISH! Free energy stays in stasis because knowledge is >hoarded and carefully guarded, and the synergy of multiple efforts can >never occur. Anyone who makes an important discovery goes paranoid and >thinks first of money and control, and any improving of the world comes >second. It's called "inventors' disease." > >Money, control, and secrecy have an almost unbeaten record for suppressing >f/e discoveries. Cold fusion is an exception, but then CF came from >science, and the initial secrets were published. > >If this vortex discovery is real, then I predict that the inventor will >find his investors, and we will never see a successful product. I say >this because this is what ALWAYS has happened in the past. There have >been a variety of reasons for it. Some sell their ideas and abandon the >research (Hubbard). Others are threatened/paid (Hendershot). Others have >endless legal battles with investors (Sweet). All fail, and it may APPEAR >that evil forces have suppressed them. But the only really evil force I >see throughout f/e history is inventor secrecy. > >Is there a way to stay secret, yet get a successful product out? Maybe. >But what if there is not? What if inventor secrecy causes other factors >to become unbeatable? How many lost discoveries must occur before people >start to see secrecy as a problem? > >Eventually what will happen is that a scientist will stumble across an ou >phenomenon. That scientist will publish. Others will replicate. The >world will enter a new age, and the accolades will go (rightly) to >science. Modern science might suffer from closemindedness and >paradigm-worship, but scientists have discovered the key to progress: >turning away from the secrecy which inventors cling to so fiercely. > >((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) >William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website >billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb >EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science >Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 21:38:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA21220; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:37:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:37:22 -0700 Message-ID: <002201bdd081$520d3dc0$961262d1@lpatterson> From: "Axehandler" To: Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:31:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"y25001.0.HB5.14vur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5784 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mailed to yourself?!?!?!?!?! NOOOO.... Noterized... like a NoterRepublic or is it Noterizer... Example.. when I got devorced.. I was in another state.. the Papers were mailed to me, and I had to sign/date them in FRONT of this Noterizer, and then she signed/dated and had to Stamp the papers... only then could I send them back so the courts would know they were from me. Larry AkA : Axehandler -----Original Message----- From: Clyde Knight Jr. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 3:02 AM Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease >Hi, > >It is not a good idea to just draw a concept on paper and mail it to >yourself. This will not hold up in court because you will not be able to >prove that you are the original inventor. > > >Warmest regards, > >Clyde knight Jr. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Axehandler >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 5:42 PM >Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease > > >>Shouldn't it be possiable to take your IDEA.. transfer it to paper and have >>it NOTERIZED? >> >>since the date is part of the noterization process you would have a dated >>record that the US would concider official.. it may not be a patent, but it >>is a record that should hold up in court =) >> >>Larry >>AkA: Axehandler >> >> >> >>>To: Bernd Warken >>> >>>There is a way to protect ideas, inventions and innovations prior to >>patents >>>and prototypes. There are many companies out there that offer similar >>>services. But the prices vary greatly. Intellectual Technology a >subsidiary >>>of Knite Enterprises Inc., offer our services at competitive rates. Please >>>visit us by clicking on the following hypertlink - >>>http://www.angelfire.com/biz/kniteenterprises/inventor.html >>> >> >> > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 22:03:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29137; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:01:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:01:51 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:05:29 -0700 Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Message-ID: <19980825.213337.9158.1.tv@juno.com> References: <199808240422.AAA20213@fh102.infi.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,5,7-14,16-32,34-35,37-39,41-45,47,49,51-53,55, 57-59,61,63,65,67-71,73-80,82-84,86-101 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"BfKmM1.0.X67.yQvur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5787 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Meat Truck, Only the secondary coil (high voltage side) of the Neon sign transformer was used by Leon Dragone. I am sure of this because everything was in the open except for the proprietary "cold glow discharge" arc gap switch that he had optimized for this effect. It definitely happened all in a series circuit. Tim ( tv@juno.com ) On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:57:47 -0500 "Meat Truck" writes: >> On Sunday, Aug 23, 1998, 8:06 PM, Tim Vaughan replies and submits >the >experimental conditions below, > >---------- >> From: Meat Truck >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? >> Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 7:15 PM >> >> On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:17:51 -0500 "Meat Truck" > > Some excellant observations here. The internal capacitance of thee >large inductor(The secondary of a neon transformer does NOT have a high >internal capacitance compared to an air core inductor of equivalent >induction. This is because it must use hundreds of times more winds to >make the magnetic field without the use of iron. It is the spacing between >the wires and its insulation that create the effect of internal >capacitance. Also high frequency effects should be predominantly abscent in the >iron core secondary.) >> that I saw Leon demonstrate was what I thought might explain how he >was able to enough current through the 18 kiloohms of the large inductor >to light the 60 watt light >> bulb.( I believe what you may have witnessed was the following >scenario.The series circuit you have described could have only created >an amperage of 600volts/18000ohms=.033A The addition of the arc gap >could raise the voltage but not the amperage. Now if the bulb were instead >hooked to the primary of the neon transformer it could act as a step down >transformer of inefficient design. Now it was indicated that little power >seemed to exist through the bulb without the arc gap. Well of course a >transformer in a DC application is noted to do this. It dont work. Now >if the input was pulsed by the arc gap there MIGHT be a possibility that >the inductance seen by the secondary with a closed primary could resonate >with the capacitance across the battery to give a higher than 600 volt >pulse into the secondary. This high voltage pulse might be able to be >converted to a low voltage, high enough amperage to light the bulb, at the >primary output end of the transformer. Now there also are arguments against >even a DC pulse being able to affect a transformer, so at this point I would >say that I am only guessing what could have happened. I would say that if >it happens all in a series circuit I am mystified as to an explanation.) >> >> Consider the following circuit all connected in a series circuit: A >>600 volt battery (with a 3.5 uFD, 4000 V capacitor in parallel), a >spark gap switch or other rapid switching device, a 60 watt light bulb, and a >large inductor with a DC resistance of 18000 ohms. >> The light bulb has a resistance of 240 ohms and requires at least >200 milliamp to glow dimly ( 500 milliamps to glow brightly). When the >> spark gap is shorted, only about 30 milliamps flows. >> >> Assuming that the large inductor has internal capacitance that can >pass high frequency A.C. or pulses, can the D.C. battery somehow deliver >> enough power to sustain the needed high frequency A.C. currents to light the bulb >? >> (Again I doubt if any High Frequency effects can be produced with >iron inductors, and in the case cited even whether any ac effects at all >occur.) >> Thanks, >> Tim >> (Congratulations on your posting at the JL Naudin site.I think I >need to >read up on electron energy levels to completely understand the >significance of your thesis. Sincere in the work, H Norris >mnorris@akron.infi.net) >> >_____________________________________________________________________ >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 22:04:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29440; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:02:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:02:14 -0700 Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 00:02:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <002201bdd081$520d3dc0$961262d1@lpatterson> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cRkCL3.0.eB7.JRvur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5788 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Axehandler the Great wrote: > Mailed to yourself?!?!?!?!?! > > NOOOO.... Noterized... like a NoterRepublic or is it > Noterizer... Example.. when I got devorced.. I was in another state.. the > Papers were mailed to me, and I had to sign/date them in FRONT of this > Noterizer, and then she signed/dated and had to Stamp the papers... only > then could I send them back so the courts would know they were from me. You must mean a Noted Republican? I looked all over for one of them once! (I'm in a silly mood tonight, forgive me ... ahem.) > > Larry > AkA : Axehandler Seriously, when I was taking a graduate level lab in electrical engineering, the instructor wanted us to get the idea what actually goes on in industry. He had us keep detailed notes in our logbooks, sign and date them and have each page notarized at the end of each day. It was a good experience to learn from someone who actually held many patents. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 22:04:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29095; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:01:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:01:49 -0700 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:39:34 -0700 Subject: RE: Cooling effect theory Message-ID: <19980825.213337.9158.2.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-6,8-9,11,14-20,22-40,42-49,51,53,55-56,58-59, 61,63-65,67,69-71,73,75-77,79-84,86-98 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"fZWr31.0.D67.xQvur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5786 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave, Your phase conjugate retroreflection PCR idea is interesting. I am famil with some of Beardens ideas about phase conjugation as borrowed from optics. It seems like you are saying that this might be happening at the microscopic scale with electrons with thermal or fermi energy (ZPE) acting as the pump. Perhaps a different way of looking at the same thing. Leon Dragone talked about the possibility of population inversion being created by fluctuations. A type of LASER action. It is possible to talk about a population inversion as a negative temperature ( a temperature below absolute zero) An excellant explanation of this is the book on Thermodynamics put out by Scientific American magazine. This book describes how such negative temperatures might arise and hints at some the "Alice in Wonderland" possibilities that they might allow. Perhaps even ELECTRON COHERENCE ?? We need to do more careful experiments to verify the origin of the temperature drop, if it really exists. Tim ( tv@juno.com ) On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 Dave writes: >Tim, >This is Dave here. I am an EE with 22 years in the IC design >business. I have been watching and studying free energy research for >over a year now. I have been filtering the crud from the real stuff. > >I have a different theory about the cooling effect >in Newman machines. I could be wrong, but see what you think. > >Some discussion of your theory: >1. A flaw I discerned. You stated that a long wire would be better. > I think so too, but for a different reason. You mentioned that a >strong electric field would be required. The problem is that in that long >a wire of 18k ohms or more resistance (80K -100K feet) the local >electric field is small even with kilovolts of potential. I think you >overlooked this fact in formulating your theory. >2. In JL Naudin's test the noisier the commutator the better the >effect. > >My theory, which would explain cooling effects in other systems as >well, is that phase conjugate retroreflection is responsible (PCR). This >would require some of what you mentioned in your theory about the cohering of >electrons. Some coherence similar to lasing action might be going on. Imagine >that a high voltage electric field is applied for a short time and that >time is of a duration such that the potential wavefront does not have time to >make it to the other end of the coil. It is known that the potential >wavefront does not travel at light velocity in an inductor. Suppose it did for >analysis purposes. A 100k foot coil would require about a millisecond at >velocity >c. If you interrupt this wavefront propagation by removal of the HV >potential prior to it reaching the opposite end of the coil the wavefront >reflects back. If you do it again before the reflected wave returns then you might be > >setting up a PCR effect due to the retroreflecting potential >wavefronts. Since there is a PCR effect you get a time reversed field set up, >however weak. This means that instead of energy scattering you get time >reversed scattering or collection, which is cooling. >I think this is why the noiser the commutator is the better it works. >If this can be controlled or switched electronically at the required rate it >might be possible to improve the efficiency greatly. A mechanical >commutator is hard to control for switch bounce. >I ran this idea by Tom Bearden and he agreed with my assessment. >Well, put this one in the hopper and let it bang around in your head >for awhile and let me know what you think. Some of this theory is >borrowed from non-linear optics where this effect is known and proven. There >is no reason electrons can't be made to do the same things as photons. >We just need to make them do it in a conductor so we can use the >free energy generated. I plan on building a Newman machine of my >own to test some ideas for the electronic switching. > >I really think PCR is the real key to overunity and free energy. > >Regards, >Dave > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 22:05:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA28949; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:01:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:01:36 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:25:06 -0700 Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Explanation ? Message-ID: <19980825.213338.9158.6.tv@juno.com> References: <016c01bdcf45$cc541f00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,11-15,17-18,20-21,23,25-40,42-47,49-52,54,56-60,62-66 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"b_Xe6.0.A47.lQvur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5785 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi David, Thanks for your thoughtful input. You have some good points here This definetely needs more experimentation. I very much appreciate Jean-Louis Naudin's experiments and sharing them with us. ( more below ). On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:58:20 +0100 "David Callaghan" writes: >Hi 'Meat Truck', Ken, Tim and All > >I think we may have something here. As far as I can see, cooling >(with a coil of wire anyway), could only occur if the electrons in the >conductor lose energy. The coils experiencing this effect defy any conventional >explanation (that I know of anyway). Any losses through EM radiation >should be replenished by the generated EMF. Cooling demonstrates that some >force is removing energy at a rate greater than the induced current is >heating the conductor as well as background EM (room temp). Do we have an >accurate electrical model of the coil that is cooling? Is any other part of >the device heating up more than expected? By the way, most extreme low >temperature (down to < 1K) cooling devices use bursts of RF power to >remove energy from the target. I don't think we have an accurate electrical model of a Newman motor or its field coil. Nothing you could put in Electronic Workbench. Pretty complex really. Jean what do you think ? > >Anyway, I'm going to investigate the relationship between inductors >resonant frequency and wavelengths etc. I can couple this with Tesla's >'non-hertzian' waves in my mind. I am going to resonate an >inductor/transformer at its wavelength frequency modulated by its >natural resonance frequency (or the other way round!). Thanks for the ideas! > >Tim, in the series circuit you describe with the spark gap, did you >actually see the light bulb glow to full brightness without any obvious >pulsing. YES, it was fairly bright but not full. It was not pulsing. The arcwould sometimes becaome unstable and would have to retuned. >Also, do you have any idea why a 4000V capacitor was used? 3 >microfarad would be useful as a reservoir capacitor for only about 0.3mA of >continuous output current. What sort of battery was the 600V battery? (400 AA's >:-) No, it was three 225 volt photobatteries. The 4000 V 3.5 uFD capacitor was accross the batteries. When the arc switch was shorted it would draw 25 milliamps not 0.3 mA. Current draw from battery while the arc was operating was not easily measured as there were large negitve pulses of counter EMF opposing the battery EMF when the arc was properly tuned. Tim _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 22:10:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA02711; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:09:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:09:10 -0700 Message-ID: <003501bdd085$c1ce6a40$961262d1@lpatterson> From: "Axehandler" To: Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 00:09:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"SU3B41.0.Hg.rXvur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5789 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: YES!!... THANK you.. a Noted Republican =) Axehandler -----Original Message----- From: Zack Widup To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 5:03 AM Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease >On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Axehandler the Great wrote: > >> Mailed to yourself?!?!?!?!?! >> >> NOOOO.... Noterized... like a NoterRepublic or is it >> Noterizer... Example.. when I got devorced.. I was in another state.. the >> Papers were mailed to me, and I had to sign/date them in FRONT of this >> Noterizer, and then she signed/dated and had to Stamp the papers... only >> then could I send them back so the courts would know they were from me. > >You must mean a Noted Republican? I looked all over for one of them once! > >(I'm in a silly mood tonight, forgive me ... ahem.) > >> >> Larry >> AkA : Axehandler > >Seriously, when I was taking a graduate level lab in electrical >engineering, the instructor wanted us to get the idea what actually goes >on in industry. He had us keep detailed notes in our logbooks, sign and >date them and have each page notarized at the end of each day. It was a >good experience to learn from someone who actually held many patents. > >Zack > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 22:11:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03085; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:10:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:10:11 -0700 Message-ID: <003801bdd085$e7c02900$961262d1@lpatterson> From: "Axehandler" To: Subject: Re: Closed-Loop SMOT's Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 00:10:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ow2qs2.0.7m.mYvur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5790 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What was the success of these? I read about Jean-Louis testing the Closed Loop he made, and the ball traveled like 5 times? then would skip track or not finish the loop.. Course he was using N-Scale Flexable Train track just wondered what the run time would be if it couldn't skip the track. I also Noted that everyone seems to let the ball drop.. could you use a decending track to allow it to drop back to the beginning of the loop? Axehandler -----Original Message----- From: Steve Ekwall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 11:04 PM Subject: Re: Closed-Loop SMOT's >On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Axehandler wrote: >>I have seen some of the closed Loop systems and was wondering if anyone >>has tried a closed TRACK system to keep the ball from jumping the track? >>you know.. like 2 side tracks and a top track so the ball can't quite escape >>the track? >> >>Larry >>AkA: Axehandler >>Hi Eric, >> The BALLS GO ~UP~ the RAMP?! >---------------------- >Hi Larry, > > Yes, MANY forms were tried: 1:Squared 'caged' sides, top, bottom as you >described (Good Idea BTW:) Very tricky construction. 2:Scooped Slide (like >a stick of conduit ~cut length wise~, cut it first, then bend it to >shape, unless you have a band-saw. 3:Complete TUBE as in conduit bent to >shape (METAL - raised magnetic field flux questions?)(while PLASTIC -large >1-1/2, 2"fish-tank air supply type seemed better) Magnets could then be >secured to the outside (glued? clamps recommended until you find out where >to put them "exactly".) > >Hope this helps >Good Luck >-=se=- >ekwall2@diac.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 22:35:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA12663; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:33:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:33:53 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:32:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Closed-Loop SMOT's In-Reply-To: <003801bdd085$e7c02900$961262d1@lpatterson> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"MHQNE3.0.m53.0vvur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5791 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Axehandler wrote: [snip most] What was the success of these? I also Noted that everyone seems to let the ball drop.. could you use a ---------------------------- Hi Larry, Yes, I let the ball drop, onto the different tracks I described 100s, no I'm sure it must have been in the thousands of times in a period of say 3-5 months. Since I could never close the loop on mine, I finally thought I would leave it up to the experts. Just because the ramp WORKS, and height is achieved doesn't mean you can get the ball back around to the start position. "Roll-a-way", Well, maybe YOU can! I couldn't.. always got close, but no cigar :( Best of luck if you try it (let the list know how you do) -=se=- steve (been there, done that:) ekwall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Aug 25 23:50:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01848; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:48:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:48:47 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01bdd0be$30fea3c0$0de7afce@et-s> From: "Eric Tonkins" To: Subject: Re: Closed-Loop SMOT's Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:51:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"D8Nak2.0.hS.D_wur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5792 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The current talk is of the "enclosed" loop SMOT. When SMOT was a topic months ago, my initial reaction was that I would build mine with "tubing" and "one" magnetic array. Coincidentally, when SMOT became a topic again days ago, I decided to go ahead with my plans. It's interesting to see the topic turn to "enclosed" loop as I look at the plastic tubing that I bought Tuesday morning. You know what they say about Great Minds and the Same Channel. I tried to do a test run holding everything by hand, but it's all so cumbersome. When it comes time to do an assembly, I am at a loss (Length of Array to use ... Strength of Magnets ... Mounting ???). I'm sure I'll hash out all of these details. I'll be sure to post results. BTW, I think an enclosed loop could be used rather well "laying level". And ... my second generation (gotta repeat previous experiments first) enclosed loop will also incorporate Greg Watson's idea of a "single magnet tower". The only difference is that I envision a "magnetic ring" on my enclosed loop. In the mean while ... Any input on the strength and style of the magnetic array for my enclosed loop? Till Later, Eric Favorite Quote: " Wonderful times only happen to you if you show up. Unless you show up, you'll never have one ! " Eric Tonkins EMail: vegan@sprynet.com Internet: http://my.name.is/free$100drawing4you Voice / Fax: (702) 358-7681 Home Office: 634 Oakwood Dr. # 3, Sparks, NV 89431 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 02:46:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA24816; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 02:45:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 02:45:36 -0700 Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 03:44:32 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: "Clyde Knight Jr." cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease In-Reply-To: <002801bdd09d$3b85a8a0$80a2fbd0@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"FKoWc.0.g36.0bzur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5793 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Clyde Knight Jr. wrote: It is not a good idea to just draw a concept on paper and mail it to yourself. This will not hold up in court because you will not be able to prove that you are the original inventor. Warmest regards, Clyde knight Jr. -----Original Message----- snip [most] From: Axehandler >Shouldn't it be possiable to take your IDEA.. transfer it to paper and have >it NOTERIZED? ------------------------------ Hi Clyde, (and Axehandler & All:) hummm, let's see, PROVE your the "Original inventor", you're probably right on THAT one, as everything we've learned/learning is OFF of the back-bone and brow-sweat of those that have gone before us and written it down. record dated data, record dated data - just like THEY did! :) BUT BTW, Dates can have a LOT to do with "Prior Art" or "Prior Knowledge" and while I wasn't sitting on the jury, I do remember hearing that a postal stamp DATE of CANCELLATION is as valid and as authoritative to a document as a NOTARY PUBLIC Stamping it! (of course the X-Mas Movie "Miracle on 34th ST" or was it 36?37?th street - The postal dept sent all their Christmas Mail addressed to Santa: North pole to "Kris Kringle" c/o the court house, but IT stood up in court!) (too much TV -eh?:) Probably only applies in the U.S.P.S. If one DID have 'such a kicker-Dated note/letter' I would hold onto it until the end of the trail, and introduce it personally to the judge (during case/with jury watching you passing it UN-opened) and even then, your chances are 50-50% she/he will accept it, AND AT THAT POINT IT WILL BE "'OPENED' & NULL & VOID" for an appeal judge.. Hummm, maybe have a Notary Public, Notarize and USPS stamp your letters and Mail HUNDREDS of copies to yourself.... then appeal, appeal, appeal to the Supreme Court, But, That too is a timely/expensive problem indeed. (sigh) The Patent Office is No Better, as they have shut down accepting anything that remotely looks like O/U or FE. (go figure?) Maybe they DO KNOW Something we Don't! I'd say just always put your name all over it, date it, send it to the Net HERE for ALL the WORLD to SEE & hope it works like you wish it might!! Anyway, "some" Postal-Dated material 'HAS Turned an important decision in the courts!' But I'd bet it wasn't for the $.39 stamp savings so much as the deep-pockets to pay the lawyer fee$ One thing, as your header says "Inventors Disease", Please DON'T take it to the grave with you! (hey, for OUR great-grandkids sake!!) -------------- OH, BTW, I agree with your other post about the ecology of the earth.. I havn't been able to find the issue (most in boxes), but National Geographic has shots on one of it's covers 4-6 pictures of the Ozone when they first discovered it YEARS ago. little hole, bigger, little hole, bigger.. etc.. H*ll, my FIRST Thought was *SO* the earth is "Breathing" up at the north pole (probably does it at the South pole TOO! What's the big deal about that? Tides go in & out, Day goes to Night, Moon goes round & round us and we go round & round the SUN *SO WHAT?* Then Years later "Aghh (the sky is falling - ~chicken little~), It's getting BIGGER! Yea, SO?? "Ohh, it's getting smaller (Ahh, our Regulations ARE working!) Yea Right... LoOk OuT!!: bigger, smaller, bigger, smaller, bigger, smaller : you know the drill. -=se=- steve (what do you do when you see an endangered animal is eating an endangered plant species?? :) ekwall Denver CO (land of the soon to be listed endangered gopher and the rat) Ahh, hug a rat -guys- come on.. oh, by the way, did anyone note they BOTH are natural carriers of the plague?? those cute little rascals :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 03:49:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA05049; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 03:48:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 03:48:33 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Environmental fears Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:49:27 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35ece67e.272394259@mail-hub> References: <19980825113246.A22210@datenbus.mayn.de> In-Reply-To: <19980825113246.A22210@datenbus.mayn.de> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VnfTg3.0.kE1.1W-ur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5794 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:32:46 +0200, bwarken@wuff.mayn.de wrote: [snip] >Moreover, I think that an increased CO2, though bad for man, is good for >plants. So the plants will prosper, thereby producing more oxygen. Thus the >CO2 problem will balance itself on the long run. This is already proven false. The CO2 levels in the atmosphere have risen measurably since before the industrial revolution, and plants have been growing all the time. IOW they are already benefiting from the extra CO2, and it isn't enough to balance the books especially when combined with increasing deforestation. > >Smog is ugly, but it's not our major concern. Well, it's certainly one of my major concerns. [snip] >my taste. The melting of the polar ice will not be as grave as is often said. >For the largest part of the ice swims - thus melting will not increase the ocean's >volume. This is true for the arctic, but not true for all of the antarctic or for Greenland, where much of the ice is on land. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 04:00:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA07471; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 03:59:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 03:59:38 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: On Coils vs. Transmission Lines Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:00:32 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35eeea9b.273447436@mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sF4JT2.0.fq1.Pg-ur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5796 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:33:26 -0700 (PDT), William Beaty wrote: [snip] >How does he keep the signal from leaping between adjacent parts of the >wire? If the wire is strung back and forth, then there is a problem. One [snip] He doesn't, which is why I immediately dismissed this when I first saw it. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 04:02:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA06098; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 03:53:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 03:53:45 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Environmental fears Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:54:40 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35ede85f.272875671@mail-hub> References: <006201bdd044$ac3d6460$96d2989e@david-callaghan> In-Reply-To: <006201bdd044$ac3d6460$96d2989e@david-callaghan> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iFTzv2.0.CV1.va-ur"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5795 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:13:43 +0100, David Callaghan wrote: [snip] >"If the Polar Ice-Caps melt, world sea levels will rise 20 metres" (recent) >85% of Polar ice is submerged. Sea levels would probably fall. (Can't be >bothered calculating anything) No calculations necessary. Ice that is floating in water doesn't change the level at all when it melts. [snip] >All crap. Well most of what you quoted was crap, but then I suspect you only quoted the crap ;) [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 08:55:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13815; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:54:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:54:42 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980826155438.006b8b48@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:54:38 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Resent-Message-ID: <"p5o0i2.0.RN3.--2vr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5797 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:38 PM 8/25/98 -0000, you wrote: >Shouldn't it be possiable to take your IDEA.. transfer it to paper and have >it NOTERIZED? > >since the date is part of the noterization process you would have a dated >record that the US would concider official.. it may not be a patent, but it >is a record that should hold up in court =) > >Larry As good an idea as any. A patent is only as good as your ability to defend it. A patent only documents you had the idea first it does not give you legal assistance if someone tries to use your idea. If you patent only in the US then someone in Canada could take your patent and use it. You would then be unable to patent it in Canada because it is allready in use. This could be said for any small country you have never even heard of. Give it to the world. Set up your own manufacturing plant . If it costs $1000 to build don"t try and sell it for $30,000 or other companies will spring up and undercut your price. Give a fair markup and make your profit on volume not a single item. If you keep the profit margin small it will keep competition out and you will have a monopoly. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 08:55:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13893; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:54:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:54:49 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980826155440.006cd0cc@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:54:40 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Closed-Loop SMOT's Resent-Message-ID: <"jEplc3.0.aN3.--2vr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5798 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have built a smot by gluing 2 single rows of magnets to popsickle sticks. 2 more popsickle sticks to make a track and there you go, flat or on an incline the ball will travel one end to another,if on an incline the ball will drop off. I told a friend how to build one and his 10 yr old daughter built it and got an A in her science fair project. You do not need a lot of precision to see the basic effects of a smot. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 09:30:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA31091; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:27:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:27:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:28:48 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease In-Reply-To: <005901bdd046$ecb33ea0$081262d1@lpatterson> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pxPdG2.0.jb7.BU3vr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5799 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Axehandler wrote: > Shouldn't it be possiable to take your IDEA.. transfer it to paper and have > it NOTERIZED? In the US, the patent office already has something called a "disclosure program". You send your documents to the USPTO, they stamp them and keep them on file. I think the cost is like $10 per page. NOT A PATENT, but is used to establish priority in an invention. The other standard method is to keep a laboratory notebook. You have to do certain standardized things, like sign, date, and have witnesses sign each page, also include no big blank spaces, etc. It's a legal document then. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 09:32:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA32429; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:30:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:30:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:31:10 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: "Clyde Knight Jr." cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease In-Reply-To: <002801bdd09d$3b85a8a0$80a2fbd0@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"y7r8g2.0.Vw7.MW3vr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5800 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Clyde Knight Jr. wrote: > Hi, > > It is not a good idea to just draw a concept on paper and mail it to > yourself. This will not hold up in court because you will not be able to > prove that you are the original inventor. Yes. It is a common myth that "mailing it to yourself" is a way to protect ideas. The myth is false. The courts ignore these self-mailed letters. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 09:39:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05394; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:36:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:36:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:37:51 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Tgtwq2.0.9K1.dc3vr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5801 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Steve Ekwall wrote: > hummm, let's see, PROVE your the "Original inventor", you're probably > right on THAT one, as everything we've learned/learning is OFF of the > back-bone and brow-sweat of those that have gone before us and written it > down. record dated data, record dated data - just like THEY did! :) > BUT BTW, Dates can have a LOT to do with "Prior Art" or "Prior > Knowledge" and > while I wasn't sitting on the jury, I do remember hearing that a postal > stamp DATE of CANCELLATION is as valid and as authoritative to a document > as > a > NOTARY PUBLIC Stamping it! Nope, it is an "urban legend" which travels among amateur inventors. I heard it too, and took it seriously. Then I saw more than one article about patents, disclosure, etc., which stated that "mailing to yourself" is a myth. Ever receive a letter which was unsealed? Who cares if the contents fall out. Send an empty, unsealed letter to yourself. Years later you can put some back-dated documents into it and seal it. Anyone can do this. Mailing letters to yourself is an inventors' urban legend: one person tells the next, who tells the next. We all "heard it somewhere", but surely didn't hear it from our patent attorney! ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 10:48:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01823; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:43:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:43:41 -0700 Message-ID: <00f001bdd119$011e6a40$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Environmental fears Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:42:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Vpvbb1.0.9S.Bb4vr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5802 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robin >No calculations necessary. Ice that is floating in water doesn't >change the level at all when it melts. Is submerged the same as floating? Bernd wrote that increasing C02 increases plant growth or similar Robin replied... >This is already proven false. The CO2 levels in the atmosphere have >risen measurably since before the industrial revolution, and plants >have been growing all the time. IOW they are already benefiting from >the extra CO2, and it isn't enough to balance the books especially >when combined with increasing deforestation. Proven by who? Yes I know that CO2 levels have risen since the industrial revolution. A closed loop system as complex as the atmospheric temperature regulation of my, sorry, our planet doesn't react in a day. Could you analyse another closed loop system such a servo for 1 microsecond and then deduce everything about it? The period of the industrial revolution is virtually instantaneous compared to the age of the planet. You have taken what I call a 'hole in my bucket' stance. You keep adding water to the bucket, and because the water level is rising you deduce that the bucket is water tight. Catch my drift :-} By the way, algae (the most successful organism on the planet), are experiencing a population explosion at present. Algae are very efficient at consuming CO2, and their reproduction rates are very finely related to temperature. They are also supposed to be the cause of Biblical Plagues (Red algae infest the Nile, kill all the fish, flies plague because of all the dead matter, cast out frogs (tadpoles generally aren't harmed by algae), more flies = more frogs, etc. etc. etc.) I refer you to the piece written by Clyde R Knight. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 14:07:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12608; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:57:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:57:58 -0700 Message-ID: <002801bdd10a$4efe2ac0$721262d1@lpatterson> From: "Axehandler" To: Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:58:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"57oC03.0.w43.LR7vr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5803 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well.. I find it funny... sorta that the topic went to MAILING things to yourself... I hope everyone understands I was refering to a "Noted Republican or NOTARY PUBLIC" a person that is basicly an official "WITNESS" of sorts.... And yes... Mailing something to yourself isn't a very good idea.. as William explained. =) Axehandler > >Nope, it is an "urban legend" which travels among amateur inventors. I >heard it too, and took it seriously. Then I saw more than one article >about patents, disclosure, etc., which stated that "mailing to yourself" >is a myth. > > >Ever receive a letter which was unsealed? Who cares if the contents fall >out. Send an empty, unsealed letter to yourself. Years later you can put >some back-dated documents into it and seal it. Anyone can do this. >Mailing letters to yourself is an inventors' urban legend: one person >tells the next, who tells the next. We all "heard it somewhere", but >surely didn't hear it from our patent attorney! > > >((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) >William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website >billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb >EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science >Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 16:03:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00376; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:01:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:01:04 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Environmental fears Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:01:43 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35e49140.316120308@mail-hub> References: <00f001bdd119$011e6a40$96d2989e@david-callaghan> In-Reply-To: <00f001bdd119$011e6a40$96d2989e@david-callaghan> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LHhz01.0.a5.fE9vr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5804 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:42:43 +0100, David Callaghan wrote: [snip] >Hi Robin > >>No calculations necessary. Ice that is floating in water doesn't >>change the level at all when it melts. >Is submerged the same as floating? About 85-90% of floating ice is under water (the difference in density between ice and water isn't very large). Presumably this was the origin of statement that "85% of the ice is submerged". > >Bernd wrote that increasing C02 increases plant growth or similar >Robin replied... >>This is already proven false. The CO2 levels in the atmosphere have >>risen measurably since before the industrial revolution, and plants >>have been growing all the time. IOW they are already benefiting from >>the extra CO2, and it isn't enough to balance the books especially >>when combined with increasing deforestation. > >Proven by who? Yes I know that CO2 levels have risen since the industrial Nature herself. The fact that they are rising proves that the ecosystem isn't capable of keeping them constant. >revolution. A closed loop system as complex as the atmospheric temperature >regulation of my, sorry, our planet doesn't react in a day. Could you >analyse another closed loop system such a servo for 1 microsecond and then >deduce everything about it? The period of the industrial revolution is We aren't trying to tell everything about the planet, just whether or not nature can remove the CO2 as fast as we make it. She has already proven that she can't. >virtually instantaneous compared to the age of the planet. > >You have taken what I call a 'hole in my bucket' stance. You keep adding >water to the bucket, and because the water level is rising you deduce that >the bucket is water tight. Catch my drift :-} No, I'm saying that the bucket is filling despite the hole. > >By the way, algae (the most successful organism on the planet), are >experiencing a population explosion at present. Algae are very efficient at >consuming CO2, and their reproduction rates are very finely related to >temperature. They are also supposed to be the cause of Biblical Plagues >(Red algae infest the Nile, kill all the fish, flies plague because of all >the dead matter, cast out frogs (tadpoles generally aren't harmed by algae), >more flies = more frogs, etc. etc. etc.) Nevertheless, most of the carbon thus captured, will be returned to the atmosphere relatively rapidly through the processes of decay. Very little ends up being sequestered. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 18:52:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA31569; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:50:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:50:47 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01bdd133$38386840$111262d1@lpatterson> From: "Axehandler" To: "Clyde Knight Jr." Cc: Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:50:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"9hLKB2.0.Bj7.tjBvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5806 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >All Notarizing does (Notary Public) is prove that you were ID for a >particuar document...but when it comes to inventions all a notarized self >addressed letter will prove is that your ID was checked by a Notary Public >and they then stamp the document in effect saying that you showed this >document to them on a certain date. However in a court of law you are >going to prove that this drawing/invention is yours. ---------------- [SniP] Hello Clyde, Actually... the whole Idea behind the subject was a way to prove that a invention was yours before someone else invented the darn thing ... Let's say that John Has an IDEA... he jots the works down on paper and has them Notarized... NOW he plays with it.. and releases the IDEA to the NET... 2 years later.. BOB see's the IDEA/PLANS and attempts to Patent them... since there is a 2 year discreptency and BoB has never met John ... John could produce the Documents that were noterized and have a BETTER chance of fighting the patent then if he never had them Noterized at all!! The idea of Notarizing isn't as good as a patent.. BUT it is a cheap way to provide documented/dated proof that you either had the plans/made the plans before someone else did. OHH... and please drop the MAIL thing.. I've NEVER mentioned mail.. and i'm STILL curious about where that came from =) Axehandler From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 18:52:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA31316; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:50:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:50:28 -0700 X-AirNote: 1 X-AIGTO: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <01BDD133.C00481A0@56K-271.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> From: ZPE To: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" , "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , "'keelynet@dallastexas.net'" , "'editor@infinite-energy.com'" , "'haisch@starspot.com'" , "'halfox@slkc.uswest.net'" To: "'ine@padrak.com'" , "'mica@world.std.com'" , "'paynen@tesla.org'" Subject: 2nd notice: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to Disclosure.....10....9.... Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:54:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA31275 Resent-Message-ID: <"8wMJJ2.0.Ef7.ajBvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5805 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: (This message is to notify you that 9 weeks remain until full disclosure of our discoveries. Though no significant updates to our web site have been made since last week, several updates are planned in the near future.) Greetings to all new energy pioneers, The time has come to make an announcement that many of you have been waiting to hear for a great many years. Full disclosure will not take place until 10 weeks have passed from the original date this announcement was posted (Aug 19, 1998). This is the SEC OND WEEK of this message, written to prepare each of you for our final and complete disclosure and to make a final appeal to potential financial partners. As the days progress, periodic updates will be added to this web site and notice of these updates wi ll be sent out. ANNOUNCING... The secrets of thermodynamic phenomenon known as the "vortex" have been discovered, its mysteries have been solved and the technology that will utilize it to produce useable amounts of energy has been identified. For details, visit our new web site created for this announcement: http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 18:56:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02300; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:54:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:54:41 -0700 Message-ID: <35E4BB45.46309361@darknet.net> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:49:57 -0400 From: Steve Organization: DarkNet Online/Digital Fusion X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ZPE CC: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" , "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , "'keelynet@dallastexas.net'" Subject: Re: 2nd notice: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to Disclosure.....10....9.... References: <01BDD133.C00481A0@56K-271.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JOFZR2.0.pZ.XnBvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5807 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Are you going to do this every week?? ttyl -Steve -- darklord@darknet.net | ICQ: 5113616 DarkNet Online: http://www.darknet.net Digital Fusion: http://www.darknet.net/fusion From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 18:56:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03161; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:55:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:55:15 -0700 Delivered-To: fixup-freenrg-l@eskimo.com@fixme From: "Pat42" To: Subject: Flanagan's Detector Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:53:29 -0700 Message-ID: <01bdd15d$7cdf13c0$2eca50ce@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BDD122.D0803BC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"P3nb_3.0.An.2oBvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5808 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BDD122.D0803BC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01BDD122.D0803BC0" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01BDD122.D0803BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 Last year I asked for advice on building Flanagan's bioenergy detector. = It works by picking up capacitance changes between the windings of a = bifilar coil. Somebody sent me the attached circuit to try out. The = coil dia. should read 2". Anyway, I couldn't get it to do anything at = all. Being a lowly novice I don't know what's wrong. =20 Thanks, =20 Patrick Robbins Pat42@uswest.net =20 ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01BDD122.D0803BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
 
Last year I asked for advice on = building=20 Flanagan's bioenergy detector.  It works by picking up capacitance = changes=20 between the windings of a bifilar coil.  Somebody sent me the = attached=20 circuit to try out.  The coil dia. should read 2".  = Anyway, I=20 couldn't get it to do anything at all.  Being a lowly novice I = don't know=20 what's wrong.
 
Thanks,
 
Patrick = Robbins
Pat42@uswest.net
 
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"'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , "'keelynet@dallastexas.net'" Subject: RE: 2nd notice: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to Disclosure.....10....9.... Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:07:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1TA5w2.0.Ua2.lwBvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5809 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Steve [SMTP:darklord@darknet.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 8:50 PM To: ZPE Cc: 'vortex-l@eskimo.com'; 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'; 'keelynet@dallastexas.net' Subject: Re: 2nd notice: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to Disclosure.....10....9.... Are you going to do this every week?? ttyl -Steve -- darklord@darknet.net | ICQ: 5113616 DarkNet Online: http://www.darknet.net Digital Fusion: http://www.darknet.net/fusion Yes. Best Wishes, ZPE http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Aug 26 23:47:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18703; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:45:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:45:59 -0700 From: nanotek@erols.com Sender: nanotek@erols.com Message-ID: <35E5010E.EB49A9A@smtp.erols.com> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 06:47:42 +0000 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Closed-Loop Smot?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sgwxT2.0.9a4.d2Gvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5810 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Has anyone seen a closed loop SMOT work (other than in their dreams), for even one complete loop? Has anyone tried using ferrofluids (www.fero.com) in a closed tube-like arrangement. This seems like an expensive prospect, especially for an unproven, unsubstantiated idea, but for someone with the money might be worth it. Has anyone received a refund from Greg Watson? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 02:18:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA13621; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:13:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:13:02 -0700 Message-ID: <35E5225A.F8A9AF04@harti.com> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:09:46 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-list CC: Greg Watson Subject: Re: Closed-Loop Smot?? References: <35E5010E.EB49A9A@smtp.erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gQzNf2.0.lK3.UCIvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5811 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: nanotek@erols.com schrieb: > Has anyone seen a closed loop SMOT work (other than in their dreams), > for even one complete loop? Only Greg Watson and Epitaxy (died in a car accident late last year) have reported complete loop rollarounds. So far no other one, as I know of... > > > Has anyone tried using ferrofluids (www.fero.com) in a closed tube-like > arrangement. This seems like an expensive prospect, especially for an > unproven, unsubstantiated idea, but for someone with the money might be > worth it. Might be worth checking it out ! > > > Has anyone received a refund from Greg Watson? That is the main problem now. Greg Watson had put much work into it and now has "left the boat" and did not pay back any refunds so far as I know. I myself did not yet receive my refund and others I have emailed with also still wait for their refunds or a SMOT.... It seems: a) a cloosed loop SMOT is very hard to build and not easy to mass produce... (although I still believe it could be done..) b) Greg Watson has not seen all these problems and now has financial problems to pay back the refunds, also having to pay his lawyers to fight his contract with his investors.... That he is not paying back the refunds is very dangerous for the trust in him... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 02:57:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA25027; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:54:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:54:23 -0700 X-AirNote: 1 X-AIGTO: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <01BDD177.5F8E0BE0@56K-271.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> From: ZPE To: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" , "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , "'keelynet@dallastexas.net'" Subject: Countdown to Disclosure...Suggestions? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 04:58:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id CAA24965 Resent-Message-ID: <"fb46A3.0.h66.DpIvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5812 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: * This will not earn you any friends on this forum, and probably a lot * of enemies. It reeks too much of SPAM. Agreed. Since our only intent is to keep everyone informed of the latest updates, I am open to suggestions as to how to accomplish this. Since the "theme" of the announcement is "Countdown to Disclosure", our plan was to do just that...countdown, so as to insure that no one will miss it when it finally happens. Maybe we could create a list of people to be notified of updates instead of "bothering" the disinterested. Unless a better idea is proposed, those interested in being on this list, please respo nd to me directly. To those wishing to stay informed of updates, what are your ideas on this? (Respond to me directly to cut down on mail traffic.) Thanks. Best Wishes, ZPE http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 03:31:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA32329; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 03:30:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 03:30:53 -0700 Message-Id: <35E5358F.9A6F0463@ens.ascom.ch> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:31:43 +0200 From: Korfmacher Christian Reply-To: korfmach@ens.ascom.ch Organization: Ascom Business Systems AG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [de] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Countdown to Disclosure...Suggestions? References: <01BDD177.5F8E0BE0@56K-271.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6sk5f1.0.3v7.SLJvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5813 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ZPE schrieb: > > Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > * This will not earn you any friends on this forum, and probably a lot > * of enemies. It reeks too much of SPAM. > > Agreed. Since our only intent is to keep everyone informed of the latest updates, I am open to suggestions as to how to accomplish this. Since the "theme" of the announcement is "Countdown to Disclosure", our plan was to do just that...countdown, so a s to insure that no one will miss it when it finally happens. Maybe we could create a list of people to be notified of updates instead of "bothering" the disinterested. Unless a better idea is proposed, those interested in being on this list, please res pond to me directly. > > To those wishing to stay informed of updates, what are your ideas on this? (Respond to me directly to cut down on mail traffic.) > > Thanks. > > Best Wishes, > ZPE > http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe Just let us (the list) know when something major happens e.g. you found funding or the count is down to 0. thanks From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 06:12:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA02683; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 06:08:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 06:08:06 -0700 Message-ID: <009901bdd1bb$a75384c0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Environmental fears Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:07:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"33oQ93.0.mf.seLvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5814 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello again Robin and All I will try to make this my last post on this subject as we are somewhat off topic but..... -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk >About 85-90% of floating ice is under water (the difference in density >between ice and water isn't very large). Presumably this was the >origin of statement that "85% of the ice is submerged". I was talking about compacted ice that rests on the seabed and below sea level land masses. It cannot be sure of the percentages of ice that is in this state (85% comes from memory, and seems a bit high in retrospect). As quoted by Vic Reeves, "88.2% of statistics are made up on the spot" ;-). >>Bernd wrote that increasing C02 increases plant growth or similar >>Robin replied... >>>This is already proven false. The CO2 levels in the atmosphere have >>>risen measurably since before the industrial revolution, and plants >>>have been growing all the time. IOW they are already benefiting from >>>the extra CO2, and it isn't enough to balance the books especially >>>when combined with increasing deforestation. >> >>Proven by who? Yes I know that CO2 levels have risen since the industrial > >Nature herself. The fact that they are rising proves that the >ecosystem isn't capable of keeping them constant. This isn't proof. All this proves is that measured values of CO2 are rising. We cannot easily measure the ecosystem's response. Take for instance a closed loop PID system. As this corrects for an error, there will always be some overshoot. It takes time to correct an error, it isn't instantaneous. With our ecosystem, responses are likely to be very slow. >>You have taken what I call a 'hole in my bucket' stance. You keep adding >>water to the bucket, and because the water level is rising you deduce that >>the bucket is water tight. Catch my drift :-} > >No, I'm saying that the bucket is filling despite the hole. Nice answer :-) I'll rephrase this. Imagine you don't know anything about daily temperature cycles. You measure the temperature in your shed every hour from 0800 to 1400, you would probably notice a continual increase in temperature. Would you then deduce that the temperature at 2200 would be hotter still because of the upward trend? Without enough data from the past, we cannot predict the future. What I am trying to say is this: ====================== We don't know enough about our ecosystem to accurately forecast anything beyond the near future. In the UK we don't even get accurate next day weather predictions, and the weather is only part of the story. This is despite using a computer that makes a Cray 2 look slow. I am basically arguing against the rash predictions forwarded by 'eco-scientists'. IMHO, they haven't PROVEN anything, only offered feeble predictions. Planet Earth has had atmospheric conditions capable of supporting life for a very long time now. Sustaining conditions capable of supporting life for this amount of time indicates a robust but finely balanced and conservative closed loop control system. Why should CO2 levels be outside this loop as they are so important to life? Someone stated previously that humans have made certain species extinct. All our deliberate attempts to extinct species have failed. Species that we have made extinct have been lost as part of the natural scheme of things. They were not fit enough to survive the changing conditions (yes a man with a gun is part of the natural scheme of things). No single species is vital to ecological stability. We are not Gods, we are just another part of the ecosystem. Research establishments need funding to continue their research. They secure next years funding by prematurely publishing data, before their research is complete and has been checked and rechecked. The bigger the story, the bigger the cash injection. This seems to be true with all research establishments. Look at NASA with this life on Mars stuff. I think they found evidence of possible life pre-cursor molecules (I'm not really sure). Compare this with what was written in the press. What I am not trying to say: (plenty of double negatives here) ==================== I am not saying that we shouldn't try to minimise our impact on the environment. I am not saying that the ecosystem itself won't affect humans to stop any actual damage we are causing. PS The best argument against global warming (temperature measurements from a global array of satellites), that showed temperatures were fairly stable, have recently been found to be incorrect. The 'scientists' forgot that the satellites were on descending trajectories and this affected their measurements. DOH! This illustrates that any scientific data needs replicating again and again and checking again and again before we can come anywhere near the magical proof. The data were corrected, and showed a slight upward trend in temperature. You see, I will even argue with myself! Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 14:58:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24070; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:56:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:56:36 -0700 X-AirNote: 1 X-AIGTO: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <01BDD1DC.44832E60@56K-271.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> From: ZPE To: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" , "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22=27=27keelynet=40dal?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?lastexas=2Enet=27=27=22?= Subject: Reply to Jerry Decker'c comments on 'Countdown to Disclosure...Suggestions?' Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:59:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA23990 Resent-Message-ID: <"rP62A3.0.zt5.JOTvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5815 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greetings all! Jerry Wayne Decker, the KeelyNet list administrator, had some very good comments that I wanted to reply to and share with all those who are aware of our recent announcement. Jerry wrote: * Certainly you must understand some of the skepticism about * your claims and this tease method of release. Just do it and * get it over with. ZPE replies: Yes, I can certainly understand it. However, there is no other way to accomplish our goal, which is actually quite simple. See if you can follow this... Let's first establish the facts (whether recognized as such or not)... 1) We have one TRUE answer to free energy (there are other true answers but we have at least one of them). 2) We are absolutely determined to see our technology developed and marketed within the next few years. 3) The chances are VERY high that the F/E community will be making one or more major revolution-starting breakthroughs in the very near future. 4) We have specific charities that we believe should benefit the most (financially) from our discoveries. 5) The only way to insure those charities benefit the most over all other charities and "good causes" is to take advantage of our strategic market position NOW to develop and market our free-energy technology BEFORE others begin to do so. 6) Since we do not have access to the financial resources necessary to develop and market our technology, we need to locate and convince someone who does to help us "get to market" first.. Conclusion: Plan to disclose our discoveries to the entire F/E community in the very near future so that our technology WILL be developed in the next few years and we WILL receive at least some recognition which will open some doors of opportunity for us, but first o pen a 10-week window of opportunity for one member (person or company) of the free energy investor community to establish a business relationship with us to be able to be the first to develop and begin marketing F/E technology in partnership with us, ther eby achieving our charity goals. Jerry wrote: * Put your name or your company name all over it and post it * globally so that all will know WHO did it. Let the winds of * destiny decide your reward when people everywhere can * see the proof of it as built by their own hand. * Give enough information that people can at least see how * it can happen or do a tabletop experiment to verify it. ZPE replies: This is our plan... AFTER we've given our FIRST choice a chance. Jerry wrote: * Surely if you are one of us, wanting to see just one honest * working overunity machine before your time is up, you would * realize most of us root for anyone the first time, until they * either can't or won't back up what they claim. * This is similar to the religious/ufo cults where people give * all their possessions to the charismatic leader, meet on the * mountain top and we'll all be saved when whoever comes * down. When whoever is a no show, well then never mind, * go back home, if you still have one. ZPE replies: Since we are not self-seeking fools, as many may have been, the above scenario will not happen. Of course, no one will know that for sure until it's all said and done. That's unfortunate, to say the least, but we can't see sacrificing our potential abil ity to help the charities of our choice to avoid causing some people to feel they are being teased for a few weeks. We certainly would have taken another route if it existed, but it doesn't. Hard choices have to be made. We choose to push to alleviate the lifelong suffering of the many that we believe deserve it the most rather than prevent the short-term anxiety of a few. Any upright, moral and ethical person would do the same. Jerry wrote: * So, let's run through some scenarios with this tease * countdown method, here is the prioritized version; 1) you actually do have something and when your countdown ends, you release it in a form that anyone can prove, congratulations 2) you actually do have something and when your countdown ends, you are funded to verify and produce them so that we can all buy them IN A TIMELY FASHION, congratulations again 3) your countdown ends with no sponsors and you change your mind and fade to obscurity, leaving yet another pseudo-legend that was never real ZPE replies: Number 1) is our choice #2, Number 2) is our choice #1 and Number 3) is NOT AN OPTION, not for us, not for mankind! Jerry wrote: * Anxiety, expectation, wariness, hope, all building like a giant 'archetype' capacitor that might discharge when your countdown ends, to feed into a signature forcing reality to bend to this new pattern and thus altering the free energy paradigm with you r vortex method? * Is this some new way to make things happen? Ok, we shall see. ZPE replies: Again...choices have to be made. Thanks, Jerry, for taking the time to comment! Best Wishes, ZPE http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 15:31:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02227; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:27:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:27:43 -0700 Message-ID: <008101bdd209$6927da40$058e2599@default> Reply-To: "Clyde Knight Jr." From: "Clyde Knight Jr." To: Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:24:05 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Zy8Pk2.0.dY.TrTvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5816 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Axehandler, Sorry about the mail thing...I most have read it from some one elses inquiries on how to protect their invention. Yes I agree that it does seem better than nothing at all but the one with the proper notes in the proper format will win the court challenge to "true ownership rights" to the concept, innovation or invention. Notorizing should be an addition to proper note taking. Visit me on the Web an get al brief on this subject.:-) http://www.angelfire.com/biz/kniteenteprises/inventor.html Warmest regards, Clyde Knight Jr., Owner Knite Enterprises Inc. -----Original Message----- From: Axehandler To: Clyde Knight Jr. Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 9:54 PM Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease >>All Notarizing does (Notary Public) is prove that you were ID for a >>particuar document...but when it comes to inventions all a notarized self >>addressed letter will prove is that your ID was checked by a Notary Public >>and they then stamp the document in effect saying that you showed this >>document to them on a certain date. However in a court of law you are >>going to prove that this drawing/invention is yours. > >---------------- >[SniP] > >Hello Clyde, > >Actually... the whole Idea behind the subject was a way to prove that a >invention was yours before someone else invented the darn thing Patenting it>... Let's say that John Has an IDEA... he jots the works down >on paper and has them Notarized... NOW he plays with it.. and releases the >IDEA to the NET... 2 years later.. BOB see's the IDEA/PLANS and attempts to >Patent them... since there is a 2 year discreptency and BoB >has never met John ... John could produce the >Documents that were noterized and have a BETTER chance of fighting the >patent then if he never had them Noterized at all!! > >The idea of Notarizing isn't as good as a patent.. BUT it is a cheap way to >provide documented/dated proof that you either had the plans/made the plans >before someone else did. > >OHH... and please drop the MAIL thing.. I've NEVER mentioned mail.. and i'm >STILL curious about where that came from =) > >Axehandler > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 15:47:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09394; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:44:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:44:44 -0700 Message-ID: <19980827224036.11545.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:40:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald McAlister Subject: Spelling ? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"WS5vQ.0.hI2.S5Uvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5817 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think you are trying to spell " Notary Public " ? Or are you just fooling around ? ? ? ? ? _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 15:55:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13963; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:53:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:53:48 -0700 Message-ID: <001301bdd1e3$ae2e6760$681262d1@lpatterson> From: "Axehandler" To: Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:54:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"OYNjQ3.0.yP3.wDUvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5819 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [SNIP] >concept, innovation or invention. Notorizing should be an addition to >proper note taking. Visit me on the Web an get al brief on this >subject.:-) > >http://www.angelfire.com/biz/kniteenteprises/inventor.html Think you can Correct this? I get this... when I click on it =) --- We couldn't find the file that you are looking for. If you are a current member try entering the page again, or to get a free web page click here. (FREE Web Page at Angelfire!) --- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 15:58:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12042; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:50:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:50:08 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01bdd1e3$2cbb5da0$681262d1@lpatterson> From: "Axehandler" To: Subject: Re: Spelling ? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:50:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"2BQ021.0.zx2.VAUvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5818 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ronald, Yes.. I was trying to spell Notary Public... Just couldn't remember how it was spelled... someone finally got the correct spelling out here thou =) my spelling sucks... =( but at least most of you knew what I was trying to get across =) Axehandler > > >I think you are trying to spell " Notary Public " ? > >Or are you just fooling around ? ? ? ? ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 16:14:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23157; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:12:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:12:30 -0700 Message-ID: <35E61022.1EC8@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:04:18 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease References: <000e01bdd133$38386840$111262d1@lpatterson> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5DIGe2.0.kf5.TVUvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5820 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Axehandler wrote: > > >All Notarizing does (Notary Public) is prove that you were ID for a > >particuar document...but when it comes to inventions all a notarized self > >addressed letter will prove is that your ID was checked by a Notary Public > >and they then stamp the document in effect saying that you showed this > >document to them on a certain date. However in a court of law you are > >going to prove that this drawing/invention is yours. > > ---------------- > [SniP] > > Hello Clyde, > > Actually... the whole Idea behind the subject was a way to prove that a > invention was yours before someone else invented the darn thing Patenting it>... Let's say that John Has an IDEA... he jots the works down > on paper and has them Notarized... NOW he plays with it.. and releases the > IDEA to the NET... 2 years later.. BOB see's the IDEA/PLANS and attempts to > Patent them... since there is a 2 year discreptency and BoB > has never met John ... John could produce the > Documents that were noterized and have a BETTER chance of fighting the > patent then if he never had them Noterized at all!! It does not work this way. If an invention was disclosed over the internet as is described here, it cannot be patented. John's disclosure over the 'net prevents that idea from being patented, by John, or by Bob, or anyone esle who read the material off the public domain of the internet. > The idea of Notarizing isn't as good as a patent.. BUT it is a cheap way to > provide documented/dated proof that you either had the plans/made the plans > before someone else did. Notarization -MAY- help resolve a question of priority between competeing patent applications, but will not protect the idea itself. It is not a form of protection. We are fortunate that inventions are currently the property of the inventor, this is not the case in most other countries like Japan. There is a huge political push from many countries to get the US to change its patent laws to something much closer to the Japaneese system. This is a bad thing. There are bills in progress that would strip an inventor of their rightful intellectual property for the greater good of a corporation, and even require that patent applications be made public on filing. This would allow a company with resources to outspend the lone inventor and profit from their work while the inventor is left our in the cold. The final deathblow to the private inventor comes from the process of 're-examination'. This would allow a patent to be repeatedly attacked by a company, potentially forcing the assignee to forfit their patent or suffer endless legal costs defending it. This patent and trademark bill must be defeated, or we will see the end of private inventorship in this country. In short, the US patent office is the best course for an inventor anywhere in the world, and its under attack from large corporations that feel their 'need' outweighs the rights of the inventor. There is no good alternative to the U.S. PTO available. Once you hold a patent, you can allow others to use the technogy as you personally see fit and enjoy protection. Patents themselves are not the problem. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 16:29:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27435; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:27:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:27:39 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01bdd211$c9cbde20$058e2599@default> Reply-To: "Clyde Knight Jr." From: "Clyde Knight Jr." To: Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:24:01 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"PGbFy3.0.Yi6.gjUvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5821 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Sorry about the mispelled URL it has been corrected. -----Original Message----- From: Axehandler To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, August 27, 1998 6:56 PM Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease >[SNIP] > >>concept, innovation or invention. Notorizing should be an addition to >>proper note taking. Visit me on the Web an get al brief on this >>subject.:-) >> >>http://www.angelfire.com/biz/kniteenterprises/inventor.html > > >Think you can Correct this? I get this... when I click on it =) >--- >We couldn't find the file that you are looking for. If you are a current >member try entering the page again, or to get a free web page click here. >(FREE Web Page at Angelfire!) >--- > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 18:01:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA32498; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:58:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:58:42 -0700 Message-ID: <002d01bdd1f5$1cb72800$281262d1@lpatterson> From: "Axehandler" To: Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:58:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Q1_4t1.0.dx7.23Wvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5822 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [SniP] >It does not work this way. If an invention was disclosed over the >internet >as is described here, it cannot be patented. John's disclosure over the >'net >prevents that idea from being patented, by John, or by Bob, or anyone >esle >who read the material off the public domain of the internet. > This I wasn't sure of... [SniP] >Notarization -MAY- help resolve a question of priority between >competeing patent >applications, but will not protect the idea itself. It is not a form of >protection. > [SniP] >In short, the US patent office is the best course for an inventor >anywhere in the world, and its under attack from large corporations that >feel their 'need' outweighs the rights of the inventor. > >There is no good alternative to the U.S. PTO available. Once you hold a >patent, you can >allow others to use the technogy as you personally see fit and enjoy >protection. Patents >themselves are not the problem. Question start arising when you have a product that can't be Patented... like a OU device... then you need another possiable way of protecting... this is why I mentioned the Notary Public... when you hit a COURT... they want DOCUMENTED PROOF... if you cannot provide this... your basicly screwed.. Axehandler From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 18:59:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18422; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:56:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:56:28 -0700 Message-ID: <008f01bdd227$04461060$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Man Made Molecules Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 02:55:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"JcLJd2.0.jV4.CvWvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5823 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Everyone With recent advances we have managed to make a molecule from man made matter. This holds for the future the ability to create atoms of our own design, with infinite combinations and properties. Scientists in this area report that they may be able to produce perfect ferromagnetic material (they are nowhere near yet, if at all possible on a large scale). Anyone got any thoughts on how energy might be extracted from man made matter by any means? Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 19:33:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA31397; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:31:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:31:41 -0700 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhR15hm0Gs/hAy6awKXPydjfW2dMPgIVAKyPXRwBCYqgnhwrSRKIqSxqIT+x From: B777b77@webtv.net (R B) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:32:12 -0500 (EST) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Man Made Molecules Message-ID: <3680-35E616AC-2572@mailtod-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Resent-Message-ID: <"QoFDX.0.Qg7.DQXvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5824 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A material that is as thin as a sheet of paper that shields 100% of magnetic forces and is not attracted to it would be great! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 20:53:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24898; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:51:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:51:45 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:52:40 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35e928d5.80227534@mail-hub> References: <002d01bdd1f5$1cb72800$281262d1@lpatterson> In-Reply-To: <002d01bdd1f5$1cb72800$281262d1@lpatterson> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"C-G7s1.0.w46.GbYvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5825 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:58:49 -0000, Axehandler wrote: [snip] >Question start arising when you have a product that can't be Patented... >like a OU device... then you need another possiable way of protecting... >this is why I mentioned the Notary Public... when you hit a COURT... they >want DOCUMENTED PROOF... if you cannot provide this... your basicly >screwed.. > >Axehandler A US patent has already been issued for a ZPE based device. So you really shouldn't have a problem getting a patent, if you are careful about the wording. I would suggest that you give the impression that you know where the energy is coming from, even if you are only guessing. It is the device itself that you are patenting anyway, not the energy source. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 22:01:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08212; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:55:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:55:42 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980828045554.006a12e4@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:55:54 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Closed-Loop SMOT's Resent-Message-ID: <"lxdZR3.0.E02.DXZvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5826 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:49 PM 8/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 11:54 AM 8/26/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Hello Richard....regarding your smot-popsicle-smot....any possibility >of more details...I would greatly appreciate it. I have never seen one >built so simply work and would like to try build one myself. >thanks mike slivinski I will try to describe how in words. If that dosn't work I will find some ambition and draw it up. It is simple so don't try and make it complicated. Get a bunch of magnets. I used some about 3mmx10mmx25mm.I glued these to popsickle sticks end to end and touching so that north poles were exposed on one stick and south poles exposed on the other. These magnets will try to push themselves apart as you glue them on so use fast glue and patience. Set this aside for a few minutes while you take 2 more popsickle sticks and glue these to a small board not much larger than the sticks. Glue them flat and with a small gap between them to act as a rail for the ball to run on. Now get your magnetic rails and glue them beside this rail wood side in so the ball does not stick to the magnets if it comes off. Angle these magnetic rails open slightly. Make sure the ball will fit on the rails without touching the magnetic sides. Put the ball at the start and watch it roll. Angle the whole thing up and watch the ball roll uphill and drop off the end. Make 4 and maybe you can get a square loop. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 22:12:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA12684; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:11:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:11:13 -0700 Message-ID: <35E63BC4.69DF@keelynet.com> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:10:28 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net CC: paijm001@wxs.nl, Tebearden@aol.com, PiyushSaxena@usa.net, mbking.ORM2-1.OREM2@gw.novell.com, knuke@aa.net, krscfs@svn.net, herman@antioch-college.edu, john1@nidlink.com, jlbb@webtv.net, pinegap@flash.net, hcurtis1@ix.netcom.com, Puthoff@aol.com, halfox@uswest.net, vman@skylink.net, dalesvp@ipa.net, rivas@theriver.com, frolov@bcltele.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, zpe@pdq.net Subject: Whirlpower URL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"S3kxT2.0.063.mlZvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5827 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks & Gnorts et al! This was posted to the renergy list and I thought it should be shared here. It might offer some insights into the recent 'vortex countdown' that indicates a method of tapping energy from a Hilsch/Rankin type vortex tube - check it out; =================== Hi everybody, This is David Dennard, author of Whirlpower Theory. It is great to be here and I think you will find this very interesting. For some twenty years now I have been working on a gravity driven energy devise. It has gone through a number of incarnations and now comes to light as Whirlpower. Einstein said many years ago there was one grand theory that would explain the motion of all things. And the reason would be gravity. Many have tried to figure and explain this possibility without success. To the point it had all but been discarded. No longer. After years of trying I have proposed a theory that does this. It has been confirmed by physicists and work on a prototype is underway. Physicist Edward Maesen has put up the Whirlpower page for me at; http://www.ledomedesprit.com/domeworld/whirlpower.html This is a very informative page and has moving graphics of the basic Whirlpower concept. Vortex World in Sweden has confirmed Whirlpower and are working on the prototype. See http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-58759/Starteng.html , they believe I have solved the mystery of the vortex. There is much historical data. Click on the links page to see the Whirlpower addition. A full Whirlpower section is in the works. Whirlpower harnesses the force of gravity. It is much like building an artificial hurricane. The power comes from the force of gravity acting on the vortex causing it to wobble. It approaches and harnesses this action in a very unique way. Many have tried but they always tried to harness the vortex. Whirlpower lets the vortex spin freely and taps the effect of the vortex, not the vortex itself. This is the Whirlpower difference and the solution to the mystery of the vortex. I look forward to working with you all on this march and I plan to present the Holy Grail to the world. I need all the help I can get. This is not a company, just me. David Dennard jclark@dcn.davis.ca.us -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Aug 27 22:31:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19378; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:30:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:30:33 -0700 Message-ID: <35E64073.2F21@keelynet.com> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:30:27 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, paijm001@wxs.nl, Tebearden@aol.com, PiyushSaxena@usa.net, mbking.ORM2-1.OREM2@gw.novell.com, knuke@aa.net, krscfs@svn.net, herman@antioch-college.edu, john1@nidlink.com, jlbb@webtv.net, pinegap@flash.net, hcurtis1@ix.netcom.com, Puthoff@aol.com, halfox@uswest.net, vman@skylink.net, dalesvp@ipa.net, rivas@theriver.com, frolov@bcltele.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, zpe@pdq.net Subject: Re: Whirlpower URL References: <35E63BC4.69DF@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m_DGT3.0.bk4.v1avr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5828 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! This Whirlpool idea of tapping into the precession effect from gravitational wobble and frame dragging smacks so clearly of David Hamel, John Searl, Victor Schauberger and the Clem engine that I'm kind of amazed at this point. From his diagrams, it looks like the vortex moving through a donut shape at high velocity yet not actually touching it, will exert a kind of inertial mass effect that will cause the doughnut fluid to move on its own. Just rambling as this is new to me at this point, but quite interesting. Hal Puthoff should love this idea of tapping into frame dragging for power... -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 00:59:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA17505; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:56:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:56:08 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980828173019.008497f0@sa.ozland.net.au> X-Sender: EGEL@sa.ozland.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:30:19 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re:Cater Free energy device and centrifugal petrol motor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Z7cNT3.0.RH4.NAcvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5829 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! ALL >The following may be of some interest to those on this newsgroup. have added articles at my solaris site on a Hubbard type free energy device. at my web site author claims that this device also uses orgone energy and claims units like this have been built although he has not actually seen one himself. http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/cater.html. Have also added a copied article from Victorian Metropolitan Newspaper the Herald on a very interesting petrol motor invented by a Melbourne Inventor. The concept is very simple to understand and he has built a working protoype photo and theory diagrams are shown at the following site. http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/hilton.html If you have some feedback on whats here I would be interested Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 02:39:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA30497; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 02:37:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 02:37:07 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:38:43 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Man Made Molecules In-Reply-To: <008f01bdd227$04461060$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"EYS2Y2.0.RS7.2fdvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5830 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, David Callaghan wrote: -=snip=- Anyone got any thoughts on how energy might be extracted from man made matter by any means? --------------- ANY means?? Well, E=mc^2, ONE way would be to make two clumps of this man-made matter in about ~20-30 lb clumps of it in a moleculer composition equal to an atomic weight of 238.029 plus! Slam those pieces together and you get excess energy extracted BIG time! -=se=- steve (and this would be PURE Uranium too ? right?) ekwall just kidding, but it'd work :) *ka-bOOm!* fast Extraction technique :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 03:29:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA03291; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:27:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:27:06 -0700 Message-ID: <001a01bdd26e$5b7260e0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Man Made Molecules Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:26:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"7cpdM1.0.Jp.wNevr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5831 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Steve and All -----Original Message----- From: Steve Ekwall >ANY means?? >Well, E=mc^2, ONE way would be to make two clumps of this man-made matter >in about ~20-30 lb clumps of it in a moleculer composition equal to an >atomic weight of 238.029 plus! Slam those pieces together and you get >excess energy extracted BIG time! >steve (and this would be PURE Uranium too ? right?) ekwall The man made atoms aren't the same as conventional atoms. They are much larger and consist of only electrons, and have their own 'periodic table'. This shouldn't prevent us from getting fission or fusion however. The man made atoms may give us a direct route to 'matter conversion'. Man made atoms only exist below 1K at present. Not very handy really! Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 03:42:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA05739; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:38:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:38:01 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:39:37 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Man Made Molecules In-Reply-To: <001a01bdd26e$5b7260e0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"FfQVZ2.0.VP1.8Yevr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5832 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, David Callaghan wrote: [snip] The man made atoms aren't the same as conventional atoms. They are much larger and consist of only electrons, and have their own 'periodic table'. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This shouldn't prevent us from getting fission or fusion however. The man made atoms may give us a direct route to 'matter conversion'. Man made atoms only exist below 1K at present. Not very handy really! ----------------------------- Hi David, Bummer for the bomber :( -only electrons-? Is there a URL you can point to that explains this man-made matter>? Thanks, Best to you & yours -=se=- steve (can i get MY own periodic table too? ) ekwall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 03:46:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA07530; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:43:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:43:46 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:45:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Man Made Molecules In-Reply-To: <001a01bdd26e$5b7260e0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"USEub2.0.Tr1.Xdevr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5833 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, David Callaghan wrote: [snip] Hi Steve and All [snip] Man made atoms only exist below 1K at present. Not very handy really! ---------------- ^^^^^^^^ Hi David, I forgot to ask, below 1,000 what?? sorry :) -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 03:50:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA08794; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:48:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:48:04 -0700 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Man Made Molecules Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:48:21 GMT Message-ID: <35e68a9b.1671473@mail.zip.com.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id DAA08759 Resent-Message-ID: <"95Y2S3.0.F92.Zhevr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5834 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:45:22 -0600 (MDT), Steve Ekwall wrote: > I forgot to ask, below 1,000 what?? >sorry :) Steve, I think he means 1 degree Kelvin ie somewhere around the -272.15 degrees Centigrade mark. Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 03:58:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA11683; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:54:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:54:41 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:56:13 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Man Made Molecules In-Reply-To: <35e68a9b.1671473@mail.zip.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"U1WsW2.0.Ps2.lnevr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5835 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, Alan Schneider wrote: Steve, I think he means 1 degree Kelvin ie somewhere around the -272.15 degrees Centigrade mark. Alan --------------- Hi Alan, Ah, thanks, I have 1K(s) running all over the place here. so,super-cryo. -=se=- steve (that's cool:) ekwall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 09:50:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28416; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:48:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:48:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199808281648.JAA00350@server4.reno.powernet.net> X-Sender: mikeh@mail.powernet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:47:58 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mike Hughes Subject: Re: Reply to Jerry Decker'c comments on 'Countdown to Disclosure...Suggestions?' In-Reply-To: <01BDD1DC.44832E60@56K-271.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"sZxqm2.0.vx6.0zjvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5836 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:59 PM 8/27/98 -0500, you wrote: >4) We have specific charities that we believe should benefit the most (financially) from our discoveries. >5) The only way to insure those charities benefit the most over all other charities and "good causes" is to take advantage of our strategic market position NOW to develop and market our free-energy technology BEFORE others begin to do so. OK, then can you disclose the names of the charities that you want to support? -mike From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 09:56:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA31423; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:54:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:54:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199808281655.JAA00877@server4.reno.powernet.net> X-Sender: mikeh@mail.powernet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:54:32 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mike Hughes Subject: Re: Man Made Molecules In-Reply-To: <001a01bdd26e$5b7260e0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"cGXiM1.0.Yg7.93kvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5837 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:26 AM 8/28/98 +0100, you wrote: > > >The man made atoms aren't the same as conventional atoms. They are much >larger and consist of only electrons, and have their own 'periodic table'. Solid , liquid and gas electron energy? Cool... What densities (electrons /cm^2) have been achieved? Where can I find out more? thanks -mike From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 13:28:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06346; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:24:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:24:47 -0700 X-AirNote: 1 X-AIGTO: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <01BDD298.9B9D9660@56K-271.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> From: ZPE To: "'paijm001@wxs.nl'" , "'Tebearden@aol.com'" , "'PiyushSaxena@usa.net'" , "'mbking.ORM2-1.OREM2@gw.novell.com'" , "'knuke@aa.net'" , "'krscfs@svn.net'" To: "'herman@antioch-college.edu'" , "'john1@nidlink.com'" , "'jlbb@webtv.net'" , "'pinegap@flash.net'" , "'hcurtis1@ix.netcom.com'" , "'Puthoff@aol.com'" To: "'halfox@uswest.net'" , "'vman@skylink.net'" , "'dalesvp@ipa.net'" , "'rivas@theriver.com'" , "'frolov@bcltele.com'" , "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" To: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" , "'vortexb-l@eskimo.com'" , "'KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net'" Subject: RE: Whirlpower URL Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:27:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA06204 Resent-Message-ID: <"zyJt_.0.YY1.E8nvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5838 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greetings all! William Beaty wrote: * This was posted to the renergy list and I thought it should be shared * here. It might offer some insights into the recent 'vortex countdown' * that indicates a method of tapping energy from a Hilsch/Rankin type * vortex tube - check it out; Obviously I need to set everyone straight on this recent post regarding the proposed possibility that David Dennard's "Whirlpower Theory" is somehow connected with mine. First of all, a reminder... our theories and concepts have never been published publ icly by us or anyone else. While the Whirlpower technology may possibly be based on what many may consider sound concepts, it is not even remotely similar to our concepts other than the fact that vortex action is involved. That is where the similarity e nds. I have visited Mr. Dennard's web site in the past so I was somewhat familiar with his theory. However, at the time I did not research it in depth since all I was interested in was if his concepts where possibly based on the same physics as my conce pts. Once I was able to determine that they were NOT, I ended my evaluation of it. Due to the recent post, I revisited the "Whirlpower" site and the second site based in Sweden and there are several facts mentioned in Dennard's site that I wanted to emphasize here which I believe to be important before anyone makes any determination tha t Mr. Dennard's theory is valid or that is similar to mine. David Dennard quote's: Dennard: "Vortex "wobble" drags surrounding fluid, power to be tapped from the movement in surrounding fluid." ZPE's comment: This "dragging" effect is nothing more than energy being transferred directly from the spin of the vortex through normal viscosity. Most of the energy is wasted as normal viscosity dissipates it resulting in an increase of entropy (energy degradation). There's no possibility of an o/u effect strictly from this "drag" principle. Also, presence (or absence) of a "wobble" has no bearing on the presence of "drag". Dennard: (the source of energy) "originates from the gravitational forces on the center rotating structure" ZPE's comment: Any person with even the most basic education in physics knows that gravity is not energy. Dennard: "The belief is that the energy needed to pump up the fluid or gas is less than the rotation energy that is being stored in the surrounding fluid or gas." ZPE's comment: Belief? OK. Based on what theory... that gravity is energy? Come on! Dennard: "If gravity is not considered of a possible form of energy, Whirlpower is impossible" ZPE's comment: Exactly! Dennard: "I am not in the scientific community and have no credentials in this area. My approach to this is dream inspired." ZPE's comment: Well, in that case, everyone should invest! Right? Dennard: "This is the Whirlpower Theory. It is not mathmatical in basis but conceptual." ZPE's comment: Our work is built upon both very solid conceptual AND mathematical foundations, which bear no resemblance to the theories of Dennard, Schauberger, Clem or anyone else with similar concepts. Dennard: "but once in motion the Big Wheel will supply all the needed power from the force of gravity. Whirlpower harnesses the force of gravity." ZPE's comment: Again... any person with even the most basic education in physics knows that gravity is not energy. So where's the logical theory, much less the math to support such a belief? Dennard: "The energy is in the wiggle, which comes from the force of gravity acting upon the vortex." ZPE's comment: They say there may be energy that can be tapped from the "jiggle" of a bowl of jello... Isn't there? Dennard: "...in the presence of corroborating evidence, albeit circumstantial and synchronistic, and in the absence of disproof; I present the Whirlpower Declaration" ZPE's comment: What corroborating evidence? There's none that I can find on his web pages. Absence of disproof?!! If that had any value then I propose that reality is actually just a big complex virtual 3-D video game that we're all stuck in. Dennard: "If proven, the power of the big wheel will be greater than the power needed to drive the pumps. This power comes from the force of gravity acting on the spinning vortex creating the precession of the vortex and the resultant frame dragging of th e whirlwind. ZPE's comment: I don't know about you (the reader) but I see this statement as a discredit unto itself. No comment needed. Dutch physicist Edward Maesen quotes: Maesen: "...my intuitive side would jump in..." ZPE's comment: That certainly makes it credible... doesn't it? Maesen: "My scientific mind can not grasp yet why the Whirlpower would work, but my intuitive mind tells me that it will work. Although I am a physicist, I do not have the necessary background in thermodynamics and fluid behavior" ZPE's comment: Well, I guess that means his support adds NO credibility to Dennard's theory. Darn! I apologize for the sarcasm but I'm afraid Dennard's lack of education is very evident. No offense to his innovative spirit and enthusiasm, though. My only purpose in this "evaluation" is to encourage everyone in the knowledge that Mr. Dennard and I bea r little in common and my work suffers NONE of the weaknesses that exist in Dennard's theories. I'm certainly pleased that I had the opportunity to distinguish (separate( my work from his, otherwise, there may have existed some undue doubts as to the via bility of my work due to Dennard's theories. If anyone still has questions regarding this issue, PLEASE e-mail me (zpe@pdq.net). Thanks! Best Wishes, ZPE http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 15:46:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA30469; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:44:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:44:33 -0700 Message-ID: <35E75B18.34ED@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 18:36:24 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease References: <002d01bdd1f5$1cb72800$281262d1@lpatterson> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aYSWc1.0.yR7.HBpvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5839 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Axehandler wrote: > Question start arising when you have a product that can't be Patented... > like a OU device... then you need another possiable way of protecting... > this is why I mentioned the Notary Public... when you hit a COURT... they > want DOCUMENTED PROOF... if you cannot provide this... your basicly > screwed.. > > Axehandler There is nothing that prevents you from patenting a working overunity device, assuming that you can speak the right language in the application and the review process. I know that many patents for devices claiming to be be free energy devices have been rejected in the past, but there are also patents for similar devices that have been granted even though the device is not actually a 'real' free energy device. Patents themselves are not the problem, nor the cause of Inventors disease. Personally, I think the 'disease' comes from the free energy community itself, the inventors simply suffer the effects of the disease along with the rest. If an inventor finds something, and simply presents it objectivly to the free energy community without going through a song and dance (as we often see here) then the work of the inventor is wasted. The disclosure prevents future patent applications, and without the song and dance, the free energy community generally fails to take notice. There is far more 'sizzle' in stories about 'some device' than in the hard work needed to find a real effect in a sea of data. Rather than study, the community in general seems to prefer to 'beleive' that there 'must be some way' to trick a magnet, or 'get around' some proven law. This reminds me of someone looking for a lost key on a dark street, rather than look in the dark places they prefer to keep looking in the lit spots where we can already see that we have not found that lost key. But the stories have a seductive attraction as they grow into legends, fed by a lack of evidence and a surplus of re-tellings. You can tell people exactly how to build a device, but unless its going to run their house tomorrow, there is very little 'real' interest in doing the work. This is the disease at work. What becomes popular has nothing to do with what can, or might actually work. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 16:32:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16367; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:30:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:30:18 -0700 Message-ID: <000901bdd2cc$4696ef20$aaec060c@davelook> From: "davelook" To: "William Beaty" , "AlienPappy" , "Jerry Decker" , "Karl Krueger" , "Todd Knudtson" , "wes borg" , "Zadkin Mangin" , "FREE ENERGY" , "Buehler, Doyle" , "cary johnson" , "Lee Markland" , "Peter Bros" Subject: Magnetic fields Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:38:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"PIg9H2.0.b_3.Aspvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5840 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I did a search on "Ether Technology" and came up at this site... http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/philadelphia_experiment/files/technical_r eview.shtml While talking about spinning an intense magnetic field, part of it says this..... "There is also some evidence to support the [alleged] fact that in one of the experiments when ship and crew reappeared, some of the crew had merged bodily within the steel of the ship, just like we find when a tornado has passed. [See next reference to tornadoes/cyclones]. Then later this.... "The tornado passes and we are left with straw embedded in unshattered glass, a 2 x 4 piece of pine penetrating 5/8 inch steel, a 15 inch tire circling the base of a tree whose branches exceed 15 feet, and metal pipe UNDER the earth is left twisted in the wake of such funnels. Clearly something other than physical force AS WE KNOW IT manifests itself when CONDITIONS are met." Then I remembered that in "How the Weather REALLY works", Peter also says a tornado is a surge of electrons returning to the atmosphere, creating an intense magnetic field. This got me thinking that maybe VERY intense magnetic fields makes matter "transparent" or permeable in some way. Hmmmmm.... Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 17:43:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12912; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:41:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:41:36 -0700 Message-ID: <35E769ED.35B9@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:39:41 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: TEP project Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YYkku.0.d93._uqvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5841 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: Anything new happened with Jean-Louis Naudin's TEP project? Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 18:07:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19951; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 18:05:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 18:05:50 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic fields Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 01:06:46 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35e953bf.156771615@mail-hub> References: <000901bdd2cc$4696ef20$aaec060c@davelook> In-Reply-To: <000901bdd2cc$4696ef20$aaec060c@davelook> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Da0Ww2.0.Xt4.iFrvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5842 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:38:56 -0400, davelook wrote: [snip] >glass, a 2 x 4 piece of pine penetrating 5/8 inch steel, a 15 inch tire >circling the base of a tree whose branches exceed 15 feet, and metal pipe [snip] How old was the tire? (Tires are often placed around seedlings to protect them and retain moisture). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 18:57:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA31592; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 18:53:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 18:53:12 -0700 X-AirNote: 1 X-AIGTO: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <01BDD2C6.8376CB00@56K-271.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> From: ZPE To: "'paijm001@wxs.nl'" , "'Tebearden@aol.com'" , "'PiyushSaxena@usa.net'" , "'mbking.ORM2-1.OREM2@gw.novell.com'" , "'knuke@aa.net'" , "'krscfs@svn.net'" To: "'herman@antioch-college.edu'" , "'john1@nidlink.com'" , "'jlbb@webtv.net'" , "'pinegap@flash.net'" , "'hcurtis1@ix.netcom.com'" , "'Puthoff@aol.com'" To: "'halfox@uswest.net'" , "'vman@skylink.net'" , "'dalesvp@ipa.net'" , "'rivas@theriver.com'" , "'frolov@bcltele.com'" , "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" To: "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" , "'vortexb-l@eskimo.com'" , "'KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net'" Subject: RE: Whirlpower URL Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 20:57:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA31558 Resent-Message-ID: <"zmXoo1.0.Uj7.7yrvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5843 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jerry Decker wrote: * I have some questions and one correction. * First of all, although you quoted; * William Beaty wrote: * * This was posted to the renergy list and I thought it should be * shared here. It might offer some insights into the recent 'vortex * countdown' * that indicates a method of tapping energy from a Hilsch/Rankin type * vortex tube - check it out; * Bill did not write that, I did (Decker), so please don't blame him, I * am just trying to contribute to the info base in an attempt to * understand where you are coming from with your 'vortex countdown'. A quick correction and an apology to Bill AND Jerry AND everyone... Now that Bill is moderating Vortex-L, he forwarded Jerry's message to me. That's why I mistakenly thought Bill wrote the message. Sorry, Bill. Also, I want to say that I meant no "blame" for anything. The word "blame" indicates that something wrong was done and that is not the case here. Jerry did nothing wrong. Now for the rest of Jerry's replies... Jerry Decker wrote: * All of the aforementioned have to do with spirals and vortexes and * each offers a bit of understanding which I thought might be applicable * to your countdown. It was this comparison to my work that I immediately became worried about (not offended) because I could just picture in my mind everyone saying to themselves, "OK, I see... this claim of ZPE's is just another unfounded crackpot idea that has no real basi s just like all the rest." In fact, shortly after I began composing my initial reply to your post, I received a response from the "3rd party validation" source that I am currently negotiating with that indicated this kind of perception. John Steck's res ponse, "Hey, that setup looks darn familiar...... 8^) Is it too early to say I told you so? hee hee hee" also seems to indicate that perception. Needless to say, damage control was the order of the day at that point. * I'm sorry if you got offended, it wasn't intended to inflame or * arouse, but in all candor, you haven't provided any useful * information, so we have no option BUT to try to figure out how you * purport to be able to extract energy, so please don't get upset with * any of us for at least trying. Please understand, I did not get upset with anyone. In fact I encourage everyone to challenge me. I see it as the best way to shore up my claims (short of disclosing too much). I've never made it any secret that I cannot reveal my secrets...yet, and I understand anyone trying to "figure it out" as a result of our announcement. It's my guess that, until our announcement, most have discounted in their own minds the REAL possibility that there is any F/E ability in a gaseous vortex. Our announcement has probably changed this to a degree. * If we didn't care, we'd just blow you off and not respond in any way, * that to my mind is a GOOD thing when you get people curious enough to * think about it. As I have said above and in a few of my other posts, having readers challenge me is the best thing I could ask for. This is because it gives me a chance to meet that challenge in a way that can add to my credibility. Of course, I run the risk of the rev erse happening if I can't meet the challenge, however, when you actually have the answer, the challenges are easy to meet. My family and friends have been challenging me for many years. That's why I have their full support today. I've been able to meet their challenges without fail. Several of them have graciously offered their services by joining me in this venture (albeit far below what is really needed to achieve full success, hence our announcement). Jerry Decker wrote: * You also wrote in your response; * Dennard: (the source of energy) "originates from the gravitational * forces on the center rotating structure" * ZPE's comment: Any person with even the most basic education in * physics knows that gravity is not energy. * Really? Can anyone truly explain gravity to satisfy all queries and * prove their explanation by being able to control it? * I think the flow of gravity could be considered as a kind of energy * because you can tap into it. Flaky as some might see it, gravity IS * more than probably a pushing effect and one day we will be able to * prove it and use it, however at this point, I would in in no way say * anything ABSOLUTELY isn't possible. * IMO that statement is like the patent examiner saying back in the late * 19th century, everything has been invented so they might as well close * the patent office. I think you (and probably a lot of readers) misunderstand something (due to my lack of explaining myself on this). I fully agree with what you are saying about gravity in the sense that the macroscopic force we call gravity could actually be a physical m anifestation of a more complex reality involving an aetheric energy or ZPE. However, Dennard gives no real indication of this concept in his web pages. This leads me to believe that Dennard thinks there is a surplus source of energy in the potential ene rgy available in matter due to its relative vertical position that can be somehow endlessly tapped when matter falls downward within a gravitational field. This is evidenced in his statements such as, "Gravity is accepted as a viable form of power in our hydroelectric technology and our understanding of the power in falling water due to gravity. The concept of rotating water due to the force of gravity is the idea behind Whirlpower .". I also want to apologize for my apparent "condescending" attitude toward Dennard. While I am guilty of maybe having a little fun with my responses by interjecting a little humor or sarcasm, I never meant to demean him. He is to be commended for being in novative and bold. I just think he needs to brush up on his knowledge of physics before developing a "dream inspired" concept to the degree he has. I would have to say that my "off-color" attitude was a direct result of my needing to scramble for "damag e control" due to the perceived misguided conclusions that were drawn as a result of Dennard's theory being compared to mine. I need to be more careful in the future and avoid all "knee-jerk" reactions like that one. Jerry Decker wrote: * Time will tell who is right. For my money, I don't care who it is as * long as we can all test it ourselves and use it for something practical. While many will be able to test it for themselves, it is certainly more difficult to construct than what can be done in one's own garage. If it were that easy, I would have succeeded in doing that myself. Construction from scratch will require extreme p recision that is simply not achievable to most of us who have ordinary shop tools. Ultimately computer automated manufacturing techniques will make the technology affordable to everyone, though. Thanks for reading. Best Wishes, ZPE http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 19:22:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA11725; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:21:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:21:01 -0700 X-AirNote: 1 X-AIGTO: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <01BDD2CA.6C76E580@56K-271.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> From: ZPE To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" , "'vortexb-l@eskimo.com'" , "'KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net'" Subject: My favorite charities... Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:25:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA11691 Resent-Message-ID: <"vP0ca3.0.-s2.CMsvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5844 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greetings all! Several have inquired as to what charities I am referring to in my earlier posts and I wanted to respond to that. I must defer from naming specific charities due to the fact that many people reading this have different charities they think should benefit the most and I do not want to start ANOTHER pointless debate that our gracious list administrators will have to deal with. Having said that, I will say that the charities of our choice are NOT any small special interest type causes that only a handful o f radical people give their life savings to. They are mainstream causes that currently enjoy donations comparable to most any charity. Thanks for reading! Best Wishes, ZPE http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 19:32:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16732; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:31:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:31:29 -0700 Message-ID: From: Charles Wilde To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" , "'vortexb-l@eskimo.com'" , "'KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net'" Subject: RE: My favorite charities... Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:37:47 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"6V43T2.0.854.0Wsvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5845 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This one did it. I added ZPE to my Dilettante/SPAM filter list. If this turns out to be useful ZPE technology, I will no doubt here about it CNN! Charles From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 19:47:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23013; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:44:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:44:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980828114454.00a87da0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:44:54 -0700 To: From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Magnetic fields Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"kgjA51.0.Ud5.2isvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5846 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Interesting I don't recall that bit about demolecularization of matter, but I did notice when I lived in Altus, OK and had occasion to survey the results of two tornado's, one of which went over my house and "miracously" transported a metal garbage can from the back side of the garage, through the garage (oops over) in a straight line and wedged it against the bumper of my car. Then parked less than 1 ft from the garage door (on the outside), no paint scrapes, no marks on the roof, and there was the standard eave overhanging the garage, meaning the garbage can had to execute a ninety degree turn, either around the side of the garage or over the eave. The top and the bottom of the can were not dented, only the side, like one would squash a beer can. No marks or scrapes on the bumper or car either. I also visited the aftermath of two tornados and saw wood 2x4's completely penetrating an I beam on a RR trestle, wood and metal embedded in glass, without breaking it. Conclusion: Electromagnetic forces cause tornados, also they disrupt the molecules. The Philadelphia Experiment was a degaussing experiment, introduced high EM fields to render the ship invisible to magnetic mines. All else is bullshit folklore. I don't doubt that the undesired effects happened. That is why they dropped the technology and didn't experiment anymore. Also, L. Frank Baum, was a reporter on the Kansas City Star, he interviewed a 15 year old boy who got snatched up and survived inside a tornado. The boy mumbled and mumbled about little people with big heads and eyes. Inspiration for the Wizard of Oz. Lee Markland At 05:38 PM 8/28/98 -0400, davelook wrote: > I did a search on "Ether Technology" and came up at this site... > >http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/philadelphia_experiment/files/technical_r >eview.shtml > > While talking about spinning an intense magnetic field, part of it says >this..... > >"There is also some evidence to support the [alleged] fact that in one of >the experiments when ship and crew reappeared, some of the crew had merged >bodily within the steel of the ship, just like we find when a tornado has >passed. [See next reference to tornadoes/cyclones]. > > Then later this.... > > "The tornado passes and we are left with straw embedded in unshattered >glass, a 2 x 4 piece of pine penetrating 5/8 inch steel, a 15 inch tire >circling the base of a tree whose branches exceed 15 feet, and metal pipe >UNDER the earth is left twisted in the wake of such funnels. Clearly >something other than physical force AS WE KNOW IT manifests itself when >CONDITIONS are met." > > Then I remembered that in "How the Weather REALLY works", Peter also >says a tornado is a surge of electrons returning to the atmosphere, creating >an intense magnetic field. > > This got me thinking that maybe VERY intense magnetic fields makes >matter "transparent" or permeable in some way. Hmmmmm.... > >Dave > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 21:26:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17319; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:25:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:25:04 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808290426.VAA04304@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Resent-Message-ID: <"4Wj3e3.0.WE4.WAuvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5847 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob and all, At 06:36 PM 8/28/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Personally, I think the 'disease' comes from the free energy community >itself, the inventors simply suffer the effects of the disease along >with the rest. > >If an inventor finds something, and simply presents it objectivly to the >free >energy community without going through a song and dance (as we often see >here) >then the work of the inventor is wasted. > Do you mean this is mostly a no win situation? Either a objective presentation which is wasted without a "song and dance", or the "song and dance"? Cannot some of the methods of "traditional" science be used, like repeatable experiments? >The disclosure prevents future patent applications, and without the song >and >dance, the free energy community generally fails to take notice. There >is far more 'sizzle' in stories about 'some device' than in the hard work >needed to find a real effect in a sea of data. > >Rather than study, the community in general seems to prefer to 'beleive' >that >there 'must be some way' to trick a magnet, or 'get around' some proven >law. > >You can tell people exactly how to build a device, but unless its going >to run their house tomorrow, there is very little 'real' interest in >doing the work. > Actually for me the study is what is interesting. (vs. the marketing/production) Am sure it is with many others on this list, many who have tried all type of experiments. Just running a LED would be exciting enough! So far, have had little success - I've gotten more energy from a small solar cell or antenna/inductor as a RF pickup from a nearby radio station. But I've learned a lot in the last year or so, both "conventional" stuff like ferromagnetics, and more unusual things too. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Aug 28 22:40:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29863; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:35:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:35:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199808290536.WAA12241@mailhub2.ncal.verio.com> From: "silliman" To: Subject: Re: My favorite charities... Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:41:44 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1085 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"W1pZS3.0.SI7.hCvvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5848 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: Charles Wilde > To: 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'; 'vortex-l@eskimo.com'; 'vortexb-l@eskimo.com'; 'KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net' > Subject: RE: My favorite charities... > Date: Friday, August 28, 1998 7:37 PM > > This one did it. I added ZPE to my Dilettante/SPAM filter list. If > this turns out to be useful ZPE technology, I will no doubt here about > it CNN! > > Charles I think that Charles is on to something real. Can't say the same for ZPE. Norm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 01:50:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26547; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 01:41:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 01:41:53 -0700 Message-ID: <004601bdd328$d225ff20$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Man Made Atoms Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:41:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"lybgm1.0.jU6.Hxxvr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5849 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All I can't anything about man made atoms on the web. Apparently the science is 10 years old! The best way of reading about them is to get the current issue of New Scientist ( 29 August 1998). You can find where to buy this in the US (USD 3.75) from the following URL http://www.newscientist.com/about/usa/usa.html Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 08:31:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07070; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 08:27:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 08:27:56 -0700 Message-ID: <000801bdd361$8acb2720$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Man Made Atoms Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 16:27:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"TWKIr1.0.Ok1.yt1wr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5850 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello All I've now found references to artificial atoms on the web. The URL is: http://vortex.tn.tudelft.nl/mensen/leok/papers/Cura-dot/ Note the vortex there eh!!! Additional information can be found by searching for "Quantum Dot" from Yahoo etc. There are several Acrobat 3.0 PDF's to download. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 09:03:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19256; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:00:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:00:38 -0700 Message-ID: <35E84DED.1694@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:52:29 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease References: <199808290426.VAA04304@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pl6MZ.0.oi4.bM2wr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5851 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: dave dameron wrote: > >If an inventor finds something, and simply presents it objectivly to the > >free > >energy community without going through a song and dance (as we often see > >here) > >then the work of the inventor is wasted. > > > Do you mean this is mostly a no win situation? Either a objective presentation > which is wasted without a "song and dance", or the "song and dance"? Cannot > some of the methods of "traditional" science be used, like repeatable > experiments? Yes, I reluctantly have to admit that aproaching the community as a whole is a no-win situation. Assume you aproach the community with an interesting anomaly (rather like Greg Watson did here not too ong back). If you wrap this in a song and dance of self contradictory theory (like his obsequious 'apology' to Joe Newman) but manage to push the popular 'buttons', your onyour way to becomming a legend. The reproducability of the device, or the lack thereof is not a factor. It does not even matter if what is claimed or demonstrated is actually a fully conventional phenomena! The claims and speculations grow like the subjects of fishing stories. I was told years ago by a highly respected mentor of mine, that if a device that actually had repeatable anomalous behavior were openly released in a dry, objective manner, that no signifigant interest (from the F.E. community) would result. My mentor went so far as to suggest a wager on this proposition. I accepted, and then released construction plans for the Barkhausen effect scalar detector, and deliberately added (to that article) all the information needed to produce a Barkhausen effect battery that delivers a small, constant output with no energy input. I went so far as to distribute needed construction materials, even giving them away freely at the end. While several people did report sucessfully completeing working detectors (one reported a failure, but their implementation did not match the original plans) no one has reported any attempts to reproduce the power source version of the device. I clearly lost that wager, and learned a valuable lesson, so I broke even in the end. Probably because the device is clearly described as delivering only a tiny ammount of energy, it is not currently a practical power source (but it is perpetual and free). > Actually for me the study is what is interesting. (vs. the > marketing/production) Am sure it is with many others > on this list, many who have tried all type of experiments. Just running a > LED would be exciting enough! So far, have had little success - I've gotten > more energy from a small solar cell or antenna/inductor as a RF pickup from > a nearby radio station. But I've learned a lot in the last year or so, both > "conventional" stuff like ferromagnetics, and more unusual things too. > -Dave Then you are in the small minority of this free energy community. Objective research like you have described above seems to come in a long second place finnisher to the faith of true beleivers. What might CURE inventors disease? The free energy community as a whole, needs to earn a working device through hard, objective work done in the same formal way that real science has been done (with good results) for many years. Rather than collecting and distributing unsupported stories and rumors, an information clearing house (such as this list, or Keelynet, etc) should be divided into two clearly distinct sections: One side should 'publish' and review (harshly if need be, no kid gloves here!) only the imperical work of its members (and supporting theory, but not theory absent imperical data). The other side would be the haven for the true beleivers and pie in the sky theory mavens. Hard data alone permits a given device to move over to the 'hard core' side. When these two sides co-exist (currently) then most of the communities efforts must be spent trying to seperate the wheat from the chaff. (I think its all that chaff that starts the fires too) The community as a whole simply cannot afford to expend its limited resources this way, we get nothing for our efforts and keep recovering the same fruitless ground. I beleive that this misdirection of effort is the cause of inventors disease. We cannot reliably get objective, critical reviews of 'free energy' concepts from most conventional scientists (usually because of a language & understanding barrier). So the only recourse for the would-be inventor is to appeal to the community as a whole, or choose the more secretive pathology. Keep the wheat seperate from the chaff, and misdirection of effort becomes less of a problem. Given a venue for objective, high quality review, and recognition of the inventors becomes less of a problem. Put more work into the wheat, and maybe we can make bread? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 09:13:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23757; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:12:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:12:00 -0700 Message-ID: <009101bdd367$b33c2f00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Barkhausen effect Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:11:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Mnf_z1.0.1p5.FX2wr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5852 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob I would appreciate it if you would send me the plans for this device. Could you describe it in more detail? Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 09:27:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28388; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:23:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:23:56 -0700 Message-ID: <35E85360.7D30@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:15:44 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Barkhausen effect References: <009101bdd367$b33c2f00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FkEz51.0.Ux6.Si2wr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5853 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David Callaghan wrote: > > Hi Bob > > I would appreciate it if you would send me the plans for this device. Could > you describe it in more detail? > > Best regards > > David Callaghan The plans are on Bill's web page, in the not your average construction projects section. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 09:40:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01663; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:38:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:38:45 -0700 Message-ID: <35E82E90.51AE@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:38:40 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ZPE CC: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: tongue in cheek References: <01BDD332.C72729A0@56K-271.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NX2Ks2.0.mP.Kw2wr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5854 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi ZPE et al! I wrote: > The bottomline will be does it work when you guys get ready > to share it, I don't think you'll get any funding or offers > that are backed by real money, but if you do, congrats. > Shareware, IMO, is the only way to go with technology or > information that is PERCEIVED to be so dangerous. To which you replied; >> Worst case scenario... it all becomes shareware on Oct 28th. >> The only way we would accelerate this would be if we had some >> kind of guarantee that we would not end up with ZERO compensation >> when it's all said and done. We have worked very hard over many >> years with NO compensation. Would you be willing to let it all >> go knowing that all your work was in vain as far helping your >> personal family and friends was concerned? Let's think about this. There are a lot of good hearted people out there who have been searching for many years for JUST ONE working o/u device that they can either buy or build. As a result of this quest, they have spent thousands, if not tens of thousands with no results, a lot of smoke, a lot of scams, but no results. Now, I've been in this mess for over 30 years and over the last 13 have been public about it. During that time, I have met or talked to THOUSANDS of very sincere people and a few jerks. Over the last three years, I have often asked people, 'If someone offered plans or a kit for a guaranteed working o/u device, would you support it, even if it was in a shareware format? The answer has been almost always a yes, with the realization that TO DATE, they've been lied to or misled with NOTHING to show for their time or money. That is why I wrote up the SHAREWARE document; http://www.keelynet.com/share.htm hoping either it would be used as is or modified as seed material for an inventor who had absolute confidence in their discovery and a great deal of trust in people who want to see free energy in practical use. Now, you have an opportunity to acquire funding as you are requesting or failing that to post your info freely as you say you will on October 28th with NO RECOVERY OF ANYTHING of anything because you did not ask it. So, why not use the shareware or something like it either NOW or when you release it. It will secure YOU as inventor and will ensure the entire construction details and that the entire story gets published as you write it around the world and read by possibly hundreds of thousands of people. Once the information is out, has been proven and many are confident it works as described, there will be no stopping it. However, if you are concerned about safety or privacy, I will offer to be your receiver and retransmitter of correspondence in an anonymous fashion to protect your identity, your choice and it can be anyone if you feel the need to do that. As I pointed out, once the information is out and proven, you will be safe because what's the point of coming after the inventor except for revenge...... You say you are concerned about some kind of financial reward, if you release it freely, you certainly won't get that, if you release it as shareware offering a post office box and asking people to freely contribute if they found the info useful, you will I think be DELUGED with money from GRATEFUL peers who have FINALLY seen something that works. Like I said in the shareware, what could anyone want with millions and millions of dollars? One million in trust at 10%, is that so hard to live off of?? Many people and companies have begun as shareware and made many millions. This alt science hardware shareware is a different take but the RESULTS can easily be the same. You also write about charities, do you realize that a working o/u device technology, FREELY SHARED WITH THE WORLD, will change the lives of EVERYONE in the entire world, you will be the single greatest charity that ever was. The beauty of it, all you do is post it. One or more people verify it, confirm it and the document or abstracts of it with you credited with the discovery will be EVERYHWERE...you will be swamped with offers to speak, awards, etc.. as well as JOB OFFERS since you are the obvous EXPERT. It's your baby and you want some cash as return, this is ONE way to do it with the least effort on your part. All it requires beyond creating the exposition document is absolute confidence that it will work as you say to produce o/u. Post the thing EVERYWHERE so that it can be found on multiple sites, even in lists and newsgroups in its entirety so it is automatically mailed to the boxes...... I think people would be VERY FORGIVING of such an invasion if they knew it was PLANS for a real working overunity device... I know you can pillage my mailbox ANY DAY with that kind of information and once I proved it, you'd get a check for anywhere from 100 to 500 from me in extreme gratitude and I'd be singing your praises for the rest of my unnatural life...... Where I wrote to you; > There seems to be something going on with the hot to cold > transition which can indeed be tapped, either by an > accumulation of ambient heat that is converted or some kind > of strange dropoff that occurs in the vortex implosion.... You replied with a most cryptic and intriguing statement that; >> As you know, I have a lot that I could say on this, but I have >> to refrain from saying anything, otherwise I may not be able to >> shut up. 8^) To me, this sounds like there might be a nerve in this hot to cold transition thing and I certainly would like to read your thoughts and considered comments on this subject and whether is it a key to your claim of being able to tap the vortex for o/u. At any rate, since any inventor would be most appreciative of SOMETHING to repay him his efforts and investment as well as some kind of additional revenue, please consider if not the shareware as is, at least a version of it. I KNOW there are many people out there who would send you a donation in gratitude for your sharing of a real discovery that could be used. It probably won't last forever because many others will jump on it and probably go far beyond what you even considered, that's just the way of the world, but FOR NOW, get what you can. I also think you will be honored and acclaimed for the rest of your life with all kinds of awards, grants and offers of very well paid employment. If I were head of a company or business group and read your shareware release then had my techs build and prove it, I'd certainly think well jeez, if this guy can figure this out on his own and on a shoestring WHAT ELSE COULD HE DO when properly funded and given FREE REIN to invent? Wouldn't that just make you tingle to have such an offer??? Ah well, my thrills might not be the same as yours..... At a conference a couple of years ago, some of us were discussing this very thing and just at the table we were sitting at, out of 8 people, we were willing to FREELY GIVE almost $1000 JUST TO SEE a verified working o/u device. We weren't asking to own it or know all the inside secrets, we just wanted TO SEE ONE that ran by itself, openly and without fraud and operated a load. So I KNOW people will gladly contribute to such a release. Good luck as always, I hope you consider this deeply because with your plans as stated, you gain nothing, with shareware you at least GIVE PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY to thank you in a financial sense which is what you are wanting. As a close friend of mine once told me when I refused a small gift, "It pleases ME that I can do SOMETHING for YOU". I have learned from this as I realize how it pleases ME to do something for someone ELSE in appreciation and that they accept it knowing it is from the heart. -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 10:16:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11023; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:13:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:13:09 -0700 Message-ID: <35E85E65.78D0@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 13:04:59 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: tongue in cheek References: <01BDD332.C72729A0@56K-271.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> <35E82E90.51AE@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jg38s1.0.9i2.bQ3wr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5855 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jerry W. Decker wrote: > Now, I've been in this mess for over 30 years and over the last 13 have > been public about it. During that time, I have met or talked to > THOUSANDS of very sincere people and a few jerks. Over the last three > years, I have often asked people, 'If someone offered plans or a kit for > a guaranteed working o/u device, would you support it, even if it was in > a shareware format? > > The answer has been almost always a yes, with the realization that TO > DATE, they've been lied to or misled with NOTHING to show for their time > or money. > > That is why I wrote up the SHAREWARE document; > > http://www.keelynet.com/share.htm > > hoping either it would be used as is or modified as seed material for an > inventor who had absolute confidence in their discovery and a great deal > of trust in people who want to see free energy in practical use. There was a good deal of discussion of this proposal some time back. Was any of that input used to update the document? > As I pointed out, once the information is out and proven, you will be > safe because what's the point of coming after the inventor except for > revenge...... LOL! That can be taken several ways, and all of them are kinda funny! > You say you are concerned about some kind of financial reward, if you > release it freely, you certainly won't get that, if you release it as > shareware offering a post office box and asking people to freely > contribute if they found the info useful, you will I think be DELUGED > with money from GRATEFUL peers who have FINALLY seen something that > works. No shareware developer has ever described being 'DELUGED' with money have they? While some shareware products have done respectably well when targeted to very specific, small markets, shareware as a business model has been largely rejected. > Like I said in the shareware, what could anyone want with millions and > millions of dollars? One million in trust at 10%, is that so hard to > live off of?? Many people and companies have begun as shareware and > made many millions. This alt science hardware shareware is a different > take but the RESULTS can easily be the same. Started as shareware, becamse commercial products, and made millions? > It's your baby and you want some cash as return, this is ONE way to do > it with the least effort on your part. All it requires beyond creating > the exposition document is absolute confidence that it will work as you > say to produce o/u. Post the thing EVERYWHERE so that it can be found > on multiple sites, even in lists and newsgroups in its entirety so it is > automatically mailed to the boxes...... SPAM everybody!? > I think people would be VERY FORGIVING of such an invasion if they knew > it was PLANS for a real working overunity device... SPAM lacks any credibility. > I know you can pillage my mailbox ANY DAY with that kind of information > and once I proved it, you'd get a check for anywhere from 100 to 500 > from me in extreme gratitude and I'd be singing your praises for the > rest of my unnatural life...... Really? Are you serious Jerry? How much if I just email you the URL? > At a conference a couple of years ago, some of us were discussing this > very thing and just at the table we were sitting at, out of 8 people, we > were willing to FREELY GIVE almost $1000 JUST TO SEE a verified working > o/u device. We weren't asking to own it or know all the inside secrets, > we just wanted TO SEE ONE that ran by itself, openly and without fraud > and operated a load. So I KNOW people will gladly contribute to such a > release. This may be due to the fact that they were all sitting at the table talking rather than, heaven forbid, actually doing the work themselves! It would have been interesting to see them actually reach for their wallets too. $1,000 could easily duplicate any one of a number of designs floating around out there. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 10:45:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18710; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:40:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:40:44 -0700 Message-ID: <35E83D25.2C17@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:40:53 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alan Schneider CC: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, zpe@pdq.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Vortex patent References: <19980828200416.27524.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> <35e915c3.50094922@mail.zip.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nRhdY.0.Da4.Qq3wr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5856 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Alan! You wrote; > http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4407134 > I don't think this patent is relevant, Jerry. It seems to be > a perfectly normal, "garden variety" Ranque-Hilsch vortex tube. > These things have been around for years. You can buy them > off-the-shelf from at least two companies in the USA, easily > findable through a web search. They are used for refrigeration > and for spot heating and cooling in industrial applications. > Alan I looked at it and yes it is just a way of tapping vortex separated cold and heat for air conditioning, but I do think it relevant because many don't know anything about the vortex tube or how it works. Perhaps you or someone can provide URLs that would clearly explain the process so that all may learn? I know you can buy various vortex tubes for about $200 from Abbeon-Cal and have tinkered with the idea of doing so but not having an air compressor, never pursued it. The problem with vortex tubes for air conditioning as I understand it is they are EXTREMELY inefficient, requiring very large quantities of air to produce the hot and cold...the beauty is they require nothing more than the tube and high speed compressed air instead of heaters (if you want hot air) and refrigerants (if you want cold air) which could be a godsend in many applications or envirnments. Now the trick about extracting energy from the vortex tube as this new ZPE bunch is claiming is what we are all trying to figure out. So maybe its high time to post as many vortex and vortex tube urls on a single email as possible so that everyone can get up to speed on what the vortex tube is, what it does and how it works. Dennard has one idea and links some of it to Schauberger. With a recent reply from ZPE to an email I sent, he exhibits a peculiar reaction about the hot to cold transition portion of the effect. Expansion produces cold, contraction produces heat. The universe SEEKS cold, the vacuum of space is intense cold so perhaps there is a vacuum effect associated with this. Remember the claims of Zelinksy and another weird machine that said you could use a vacuum (Chernetskii also) to produce power from an arc or spark gap struck in that vacuum. Perhaps a vortex effect IN A VACUUM with a spark gap...since we don't have a line on it with linear thinking, perhaps we should try LATERAL thinking........whatever ends up with a working O/U device that we could all USE would just tickle me pink... -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 10:57:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22701; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:56:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 10:56:20 -0700 Message-ID: <35E84002.36AFF34C@harti.com> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:53:06 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdecker@keelynet.com, freenrg-l Subject: Re: Vortex patent efficiency ? References: <19980828200416.27524.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> <35e915c3.50094922@mail.zip.com.au> <35E83D25.2C17@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9_tyj2.0.dY5.334wr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5857 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jerry W. Decker schrieb: > Hi Alan! > > You wrote; > > http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4407134 > > > The problem with vortex tubes for air conditioning as I understand it is > they are EXTREMELY inefficient, requiring very large quantities of air > to produce the hot and cold...the beauty is they require nothing more > than the tube and high speed compressed air instead of heaters (if you > want hot air) and refrigerants (if you want cold air) which could be a > godsend in many applications or envirnments. How about driving this Ranke-Hilsch tube with a fluid liquid instead of just air ? Would it help getting the efficiency better for heater or fridge usage ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 11:01:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24315; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:00:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:00:52 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:01:30 -0700 Subject: Re: Vortex patent From: "Alex Karahalios" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1307733989-10293844@mail.figint.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"zKO_M1.0.mx5.J74wr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5858 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From: "Jerry W. Decker" >Perhaps you or someone can provide URLs that would clearly explain the >process so that all may learn? I know you can buy various vortex tubes >for about $200 from Abbeon-Cal and have tinkered with the idea of doing >so but not having an air compressor, never pursued it. > >The problem with vortex tubes for air conditioning as I understand it is >they are EXTREMELY inefficient, requiring very large quantities of air >to produce the hot and cold...the beauty is they require nothing more >than the tube and high speed compressed air instead of heaters (if you >want hot air) and refrigerants (if you want cold air) which could be a >godsend in many applications or envirnments. > I had read somewhere that the cold/heat separation from vortex tubes was due to an acoustic phenomena. I too would like to find some references/URL on this. Alex Karahalios From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 11:15:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28479; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:12:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:12:41 -0700 Message-ID: <35E844A8.609D@keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 13:12:56 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: leoguitar@vossnet.de CC: freenrg-l , vortex-l@eskimo.com, zpe@pdq.net Subject: Re: Vortex patent efficiency ? References: <19980828200416.27524.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> <35e915c3.50094922@mail.zip.com.au> <35E83D25.2C17@keelynet.com> <35E84002.36AFF34C@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wqCai.0.uy6.OI4wr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5859 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan! You wrote; > How about driving this Ranke-Hilsch tube with a fluid liquid > instead of just air ? Would it help getting the efficiency > better for heater or fridge usage ? Isn't that the principle of 'hydrosonics' or am I mistaken and hydrosonics is simply shearing of water molecules, though perhaps enhanced by vortex action? A closet or garage sized tornado chamber to run your house using air or a fluid tank, now that's novel. Interesting that CLEM used cooking oil in his engine as at; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/clem1.htm and http://www.keelynet.com/energy/clem2.htm that was circulated in an apparent expansive mode, kind of a negative vortex that allows the dissipation instead of the focusing of the mechanical forces in the medium (air, water, cooking oil, etc.). The question then becomes where does the energy come from to create the vortex IN THE FIRST PLACE OR is there some bizarre amplification effect going on when a vortex expands to rejoin the mechanically attenuated ambience of space? If that is so, then a lot of devices would have been tapping into a very basic principle, highly shrouded in doubletalk and mystique. That being it takes a given amount of energy to create a vortex and sustain it, but when the vortex expands, does it produce more energy in that expansion than it took to sustain the vortex?? Is heat or cold related to this suspected phenomenon and if so, how? Does it only occur with certain geometries or mechanical setups which is why it is not more widely reported? Perhaps one of these off the shelf vortex tubes with water or cooking oil running through it might yield something unexpected, or do we blow it off with the 'known fact' that viscosity will dissipate most of the energy of the moving fluid?? According to Schaubergers test at the high school were he used the 'twistor' tube it offered near negative resistance/viscosity, wanting to suck the pump dry. The same pump used on a straight tube could only push so much fluid through it. Have to dig out that EXACT story and post it as a file unless someone knows the URL? -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 11:20:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA31643; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:18:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:18:56 -0700 From: SHESUZ22@aol.com Message-ID: <20db7c4.35e84577@aol.com>> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 14:16:23 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Vortex patent Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Resent-Message-ID: <"nTHds.0.Fk7.FO4wr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5860 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: you probabley wouldn't need so much air if you really spun that tube thing (inside itself . I there an outer tube? How 'bout reduce the tube. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 11:25:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01158; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:24:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:24:04 -0700 Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:25:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808291825.LAA09430@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Resent-Message-ID: <"foQpy2.0.yH.3T4wr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5861 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob and all, At 11:52 AM 8/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >Yes, I reluctantly have to admit that aproaching the community as a >whole is >a no-win situation. > >Assume you aproach the community with an interesting anomaly (rather >like Greg Watson did here not too ong back). If you wrap this in a song >and dance of self contradictory theory (like his obsequious 'apology' to >Joe Newman) but manage to push the popular 'buttons', your onyour way to >becomming a legend. > This is a sobering statement. There are things even more wild than typically discussed on freenrg-l in the last year or so! ... >My mentor went so far as to suggest a wager on this proposition. I >accepted, and then released construction plans for the Barkhausen effect >scalar detector, and deliberately added (to that article) all the >information needed to produce a Barkhausen effect battery that delivers >a small, constant output with no energy input. My first experiments with the Barkhausen effect were indeterminate. I obviously didn't have enough shielding and easy magnet adjustments. I plan to revisit it again soon, have more laminations to try. >Rather than collecting and distributing unsupported stories and rumors, >an information clearing house (such as this list, or Keelynet, etc) >should be divided into two clearly distinct sections: > >One side should 'publish' and review (harshly if need be, no kid gloves >here!) only the imperical work of its members (and supporting theory, >but not theory absent imperical data). The other side would be the >haven for the true beleivers and pie in the sky theory mavens. Hard >data alone permits a given device to move over >to the 'hard core' side. Maybe have a clearing house of things that didn't pan out, as well. Show a working device, then it could be moved to the "hard core" side. There obviously won't be agreement about what didn't work, for example the "one of" devices. > This sounds good to me! Much of what I've learned is determining what is the chaff. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 12:51:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16309; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:29:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:29:38 -0700 Delivered-To: fixup-freenrg-l@eskimo.com@fixme From: "Pat42" To: Subject: Re: Flanagan's Detector Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:27:57 -0700 Message-ID: <01bdd383$20def0e0$81a8e1cf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01BDD348.748018E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"cCDEv3.0.f-3.YQ5wr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5862 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BDD348.748018E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0037_01BDD348.748018E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0037_01BDD348.748018E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maybe I didn't make myself entirely clear in the last message. I = expected the attached circuit to at least pick up changes in the coil's = capacitance as I brought it close to a person. Since I get no reading = whatsoever from it I think something is wrong. I don't know much about = fet's except that they are sensitive to esd and I have almost no idea = how to use them in a circuit. If there is something wrong with it or = something I should know which isn't explicitly stated, please let me = know. =20 Thanks, =20 Patrick Robbins Pat42@uswest.net -----Original Message----- From: Pat42 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 7:00 PM Subject: Flanagan's Detector =20 =20 Hi, =20 Last year I asked for advice on building Flanagan's bioenergy = detector. It works by picking up capacitance changes between the = windings of a bifilar coil. Somebody sent me the attached circuit to = try out. The coil dia. should read 2". Anyway, I couldn't get it to do = anything at all. Being a lowly novice I don't know what's wrong. =20 Thanks, =20 Patrick Robbins Pat42@uswest.net =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0037_01BDD348.748018E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Maybe I didn't make myself entirely = clear in the=20 last message.  I expected the attached circuit to at least pick up = changes=20 in the coil's capacitance as I brought it close to a person.  Since = I get=20 no reading whatsoever from it I think something is wrong.  I don't = know=20 much about fet's except that they are sensitive to esd and I have almost = no idea=20 how to use them in a circuit.  If there is something wrong with it = or=20 something I should know which isn't explicitly stated, please let me=20 know.
 
Thanks,
 
Patrick Robbins
Pat42@uswest.net
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Pat42 <Pat42@uswest.net>
To: = freenrg-l@eskimo.com <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
D= ate:=20 Wednesday, August 26, 1998 7:00 PM
Subject: Flanagan's = Detector

Hi,
 
Last year I asked for advice on = building=20 Flanagan's bioenergy detector.  It works by picking up = capacitance=20 changes between the windings of a bifilar coil.  Somebody sent = me the=20 attached circuit to try out.  The coil dia. should read = 2". =20 Anyway, I couldn't get it to do anything at all.  Being a lowly = novice=20 I don't know what's wrong.
 
Thanks,
 
Patrick = Robbins
Pat42@uswest.net
 
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Ban63C6XfXH84d9DtWicuOH+dgrwuvsIRGpA4zhyzzL/euNuv+Aog69BsFibCyiqWlsMQgQ3/O20 AByM78HuSDwuIdM8nG5BiEwr0UQIW9wMsdjsgg4AhQY6CiaqYnzxupBuy/ErB8/iCUaEPlgurp68 qtEkhtLT0UPRfBzpsQ/jO9G8CR2b0sj/DPSRu7vCFOyo+sQsLTAN1axJwgmtfA6uz8K80bDvrORo yu/wPFLLAuOjSzfWlmqSMjjl/OhMyh4ZzO9OMS9j0dCDsCRKxyEbPC8jHgMjjdAMqRS0JEbpVJTU RztLLkinEOOrON4GsspKFxdKVVOJpJPRwAp1rKjNC+Ej9Snr/Dx1OKgafbLPYIsENMotjxURxzNd c3O6+ix1kFn77FQRuTVTlBZZbldbryahZl3WOfx+ShFXTm1UzFtTuURyN496nJRDexNNU6aRFNxU XS61Q/BHf5uykMB3sayR0YL90m9cBj0TeFdsQaNY3pjIou/duqAr0agH6RtKY3q/3TjJHyOuc9iT WY52v3txm7chkgFlF96V0bspM5c3jTggADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BDD348.748018E0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 17:15:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA24562; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:13:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:13:09 -0700 Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808300013.RAA06157@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Flanagan's Detector Resent-Message-ID: <"pS1u81.0.f_5.Ja9wr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5863 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:27 PM 8/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >Maybe I didn't make myself entirely clear in the last message. I expected the attached circuit to at least pick up changes in the coil's capacitance as I brought it close to a person. Since I get no reading whatsoever from it I think something is wrong. I don't know much about fet's except that they are sensitive to esd and I have almost no idea how to use them in a circuit. If there is something wrong with it or something I should know which isn't explicitly stated, please let me know. > With the MPF102 gate connected to the neg. battery, the source would be a volt or so, that's 10% on your meter. With the gate floating, only with the bifilar capacitance, I would guess a source voltage of 5V or more, >50%. Is this what you measure? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 18:01:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04894; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:59:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:59:17 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980829001026.00a7e100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 00:10:26 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: The cause of the Earth's EM Field In-Reply-To: <01BDD2CA.6C76E580@56K-271.MaxTNT1.pdq.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"304K33.0.JC1.bFAwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5864 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Does anybody know for sure? Is there any definitive evidence of what is the cause of the Earth's Electromagnetic field? For instance: Is it produced by activity in the core? Is it produced by friction between the core and the mantle? Is it produced in the mantle? Is it produced by friction between the mantle and the lithosphere? Has anybody asked these questions? Thanks Lee Markland From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 19:41:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02265; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:39:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:39:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980830120928.00850ac0@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:09:28 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re:The Encyclopedia of free energy world project Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"PYFGq1.0.CZ.mjBwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5865 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! ALL Due to some Emial comments I have decided to extend the Enclopedia free energy to a world project and to be freely aceessable to all. I have over a period of time been able to to on a very limited budget finally get the equipment to place most information on the net. But due to limited finance I am unable to purchase a lot of what is required to full fill the world project aim. SO i am asking any one of this newsgroup if they are able to provide me with the information required (gratis) whether copies of videos ( PAL or NTSC ) photos and copies of documents you may have in your procession. We are in dificult times and time my be short in providing the world with this information so that these devices can come online.. IF we can get enough interest in this world project we may be able to make so changes for the better that will be of benefit to us all. Geoff more details at my home page sub page as below http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/worldpro.html If you have some feedback on whats here I would be interested PS I would like to thank those that in the past have provided me information that has been used at my website. Geoff mail can be sent to the address below. Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 20:25:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14854; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:24:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:24:19 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980829232446.00c25244@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:24:46 +0000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, alex@frolov.spb.ru, ahannan@MIT.EDU, deadnuts@deadnuts.com, lupem@world.std.com, peg@wintergreen.com, bso@acm.org, brenden@molec-geodesics.com, claudeg@world.std.com, DaleSVP@ipa.net, dtassen@c-zone.net, clsmith@darwin.bu.edu, ccantor@sequenom.com, 76753.3551@CompuServe.COM, eben@ergeng.com, ehill@world.std.com, leep@world.std.com, ejp@world.std.com, wordpros@inforamp.net, moy@ziplink.net, driscoll@wit.edu, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, jkokor@alum.mit.edu, Bensinger@bdhepa.hep.brandeis.edu, jim@msri.org, discjt@servtech.com, John Ranta , disc@tako.demon.co.uk, joshprokop@worldnet.att.net, Leonard Dvorson , mary@gnu.ai.mit.edu, atc@wit.edu, leep@world.std.com, ohl@world.std.com, pgm@world.std.com, rsmith@itiip.com, raddison@world.std.com, 71022.3001@CompuServe.COM, 73577.123@CompuServe.COM, TAFAUL@aol.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Maxwell's Quarternians Resent-Message-ID: <"ku_AZ3.0.vd3.ZNCwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5866 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I recently discovered that Maxwell's equations are really an incomplete version of the his theory. The equations are Oliver Heavyside's interpretation of Maxwell's work. Maxwell's did not have those equations in any of his writings. The theory was originally expressed with quarternian mathematics. Heavyside was not familiar with this math and did not understand the higher dimensional concepts. After Maxwell's passing, Heavyside simplified the theory to the equations we have today. In the process, he left out over 200 quarternians. Only the 1873 first edition of "Treatise of Electricity and Magnitism" has the original quarternian math. The following page has an account of this event in more detail: http://www.enterprisemission.com/hyper1a.html There is a digital edition of Maxwell's bio at: http://sonnetusa.com/aj_c.htm I am interested in obtaining a copy of Maxwell's first edition of "Treatise..." and posting a digital edition on the web in a similar manner. I have located these volumes in the rare books section at Harvard, however they do not allow photocopying there. If anyone out there is able to locate these volumes at a reasonable cost, I will put the effort into posting them on a web site. Collaborators on this project would be most welcome. Towards a Better Future Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 29 21:21:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA26964; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:17:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:17:52 -0700 Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808300418.VAA29590@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Maxwell's Quarternians Resent-Message-ID: <"gKeLh1.0.Ab6.l9Dwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5867 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:24 PM 8/29/98 +0000, you wrote: >I recently discovered that Maxwell's equations are really an incomplete >version of the his theory. The equations are Oliver Heavyside's >interpretation of Maxwell's work. Maxwell's did not have those equations in >any of his writings. The theory was originally expressed with quarternian >mathematics. Heavyside was not familiar with this math and did not >understand the higher dimensional concepts. After Maxwell's passing, >Heavyside simplified the theory to the equations we have today. In the >process, he left out over 200 quarternians. Only the 1873 first edition of >"Treatise of Electricity and Magnitism" has the original quarternian math. >The following page has an account of this event in more detail: > >http://www.enterprisemission.com/hyper1a.html > I understand how someone can discard terms in an equation. Here is a quote from this site: " ... In discarding the scalar component of the quaternion, Heaviside and Gibbs unwittingly discarded the unified EM/G [electromagnetic/ gravitational] portion of Maxwell's theory that arises when the translation/directional components of two interacting quaternions reduce to zero, but the scalar resultant remains and infolds a deterministic, dynamic structure that is a function of oppositive directional/translational components. In the infolding of EM energy inside a scalar potential, a structured scalar potential results, almost precisely as later shown by Whittaker but unnoticed by the scientific community." They cannot discard the physical effects, though. Are there any that we can demonstrate? I've heard of the A-B effect, but that's not easy to duplicate! On another topic, has anyone else looked for Hoagland's pyramid in the lunar crater Ukert? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 02:29:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA17123; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 02:28:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 02:28:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199808300929.FAA29708@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Magnetic cement vs. Searl rollers. Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:24:38 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0zGGB.0.OB4.aiHwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5868 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Having spent some time away from civilization I had the misfortune of reading the so called Law of the Squares, Books 1,1a,1b,2. It was puffed up with so much superlative info. as to make it almost worthless. After my vacation I saw some follow up info on Keelynet or somewhere that indicated that a historical research of Searl showed some shaky shenanigans. So at that point I accepted that Searl was a fraud, but a lot of things just didn't jive. Anyone familiar with this guy should know he keeps going to a dream, but I understood his dream in a different context. As part of that dream goes he is a child playing hop-scotch. I had to ask people how this game works because I cant remember anything about it. But what I am told is that a stone or marker is thrown to the square that has to be hopped over. In Searls dream his pebble is on 3 and he jumping to 4,when everything stops. Now Searl proposes a system of rings and rollers. Each of these consist of 4 layers of materials. If I remember right: aluminum,nylon,neodymium,copper. Sounds like a damn expensive proposition to me. Now you have to magnetise and imprint an alternating current on these rollers. Even though no one understands how that can be done, or do they? Yes there are claims of AC imprinting on ferrites. Out of hundreds of pages of semi-useless information I have found the following hints; The concept at stage 1... equals a two state condition: State 1.... A solid ring,formed by various layers then imprinted with an D.C PLUS A.C. pulse. State 2.... A roller,formed with similar materials, and printed by similar methods. The first objective is to make the roller blank correct, until you have this right, there is no sense continuing with the rest,once the roller is correct in manufacturing, its plate can be made. Now to leave Searls spelling behind lets just drop his whole proposition into the rubbish bin of history and consider the following. The concentric rings can be be viewed as an axial capacitor from above. In between the rings an electric field exists which can come from a power source. Also within these rings rollers exist;constructed of a dielectric material to amplify not just the electric field, but also the magnetic. To serve this purpose a cement/ferrite/additive/water mixture is allowed to cure in rotation to cohered fields. An amazing amount of water is absorbed in crystalline cement formation. In fact if a magnetic field is made to act in concert with the electric at right angles a third force acts at right angles to both which is in the direction of both rotation and precession of the rollers. Now to further complicate matters the charge movement through space that this Lorentz force mechanism acts only occurs at sufficiently high frequencies to become practical. This is what started me thinking about that time when I replaced the insulated parts of a tesla primary arc gap with cement block. The arc conducted through the cement instead of the air because it was conductive at that frequency. This whole subject that I am driving at is that Searl may be presenting a mistruth, hey who knows maybe he is working for a bigger paymaster. Sincere in the truth: H. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 03:51:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28126; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 03:50:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 03:50:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199808301051.GAA18287@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Re: Magnetic cement vs. Searl rollers. Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:48:20 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OJ2Em.0.Ot6.IwIwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5869 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This reminds me of a time long ago and forgotten by many. It was after school in 1963 and I was watching "Wagon Train" at Darlene Krusinski's. I didn't know then how things worked but when I watched the wheel it went forward, and then backwards. Little could I ascertain that the projector was showing phasing interactions. Incredible as it sounds over a quarter of a century later while asleep during a repeat episode of wagon train a bird,precisely a robin came to my window and repeatedly pecked until I had awakened. In that precise moment was the episode that made me remember what was said. It sort of came back to haunt me.But in a realization is the fact that magnetic imprints must surely follow suit with rotation. If the frequency is sufficiently high in cohered fields such a multi-pole wagon-wheel illusion imprint could be made on a rotating part. Dreams are hard to come by especially from birds. Maybe this is a bird brained idea.Nevertheless I always remember the sweet times with Darlene in my young age of misunderstanding. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 04:03:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA30329; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 04:02:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 04:02:46 -0700 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:03:40 GMT Message-ID: <35f330ae.15695018@mail.zip.com.au> References: <199808291825.LAA09430@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <199808291825.LAA09430@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id EAA30306 Resent-Message-ID: <"D7NZX3.0.nP7.L5Jwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5870 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:25:00 -0700 (PDT), dave dameron wrote: >>Rather than collecting and distributing unsupported stories and rumors, >>an information clearing house (such as this list, or Keelynet, etc) >>should be divided into two clearly distinct sections: >>One side should 'publish' and review (harshly if need be, no kid gloves >>here!) only the imperical work of its members (and supporting theory, >>but not theory absent imperical data). The other side would be the >>haven for the true beleivers and pie in the sky theory mavens. Hard >>data alone permits a given device to move over >>to the 'hard core' side. >Maybe have a clearing house of things that didn't pan out, as well. Show a >working device, then it could be moved to the "hard core" side. There obviously >won't be agreement about what didn't work, for example the "one of" devices. >This sounds good to me! Much of what I've learned is determining what is the >chaff. *Very* good point. It's just as important to know for certain what *doesn't* work (to avoid wasting time re-tilling soil that has already been thoroughly turned) as it is to know what *might* possibly have a chance of working with a bit of fiddling and/or work. Alan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 05:14:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA08290; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 05:13:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 05:13:11 -0700 Message-ID: <003201bdd40f$811e81a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: The cause of the Earth's EM Field Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:12:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"yJ5C2.0.S12.N7Kwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5871 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee and All The Earth has a dipole magnetic field just a bar magnet, with the south pole in the northern hemisphere and the north pole in the southern hemisphere. The Earth's liquid outer core, which is a conductor, generates this field from convection and its rotation. This field is modulated by the magnetism of some rocks and also by electrical currents in the ionosphere and magnetosphere. The Earth's core consists of mainly iron, comprising 24 percent of the Earth's mass. There is also nickel and sulphur, comprising 3 and 5 percent of the Earth's mass respectively. The rotation / convection process of the core is, not surprisingly, poorly understood as it is not easy to replicate the conditions in a lab. Many measurements are based on the propagation of seismic waves through the globe. Geological studies of PM rocks indicate that the polarity of the Earth's magnetic field reverses every ten 4,000 years or so. The Earth is also a strong source of long waves, effected by the polar aurorae. The mean long wave emission power is about 10^8 watts. -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland >Does anybody know for sure? Is there any definitive evidence of what is the >cause of the Earth's Electromagnetic field? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 07:17:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03187; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 07:16:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 07:16:35 -0700 Message-ID: <35E97A73.836@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:14:43 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Oscilloscopes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gcr2-3.0.dn.3xLwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5872 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: I'm new to dealing with o-scopes, but I need one to determine signal transit time over a distance of about 300 feet. I can't buy a new dual trace/input scope, so I'm buying a used one. The question is, which of the following would work for detecting signal transit time (accurately) over 300ft? Phillips PM-3217: 50 MHz dual channel, portable light weight, Dual time base, Can be powered from 21 to 27VDC source or 120VAC, 7nS rise time pulse transitions. Minor cosmetic defect Phillips PM-3240: 100 MHz dual channel, portable light weight, Dual time base, 7nS rise time pulse transitions. Missing plastic bezzel ( no effect on operation ) Tek 453: Portable 50MHz dual channel oscilloscope, 5mV/Div sensitivity, Delaying time base, Rectangular CRT, Great condition! Tek 465: 100MHz portable dual channel oscilloscope. 100MHz Tektronix probes included with purchase Thanks, Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 08:40:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA32622; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 08:39:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 08:39:39 -0700 Message-ID: <004601bdd42c$9ac51a20$205cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: Maxwell's Quarternians Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:34:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"y-2Rc.0.az7.x8Nwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5873 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >On another topic, has anyone else looked for Hoagland's pyramid in the lunar >crater Ukert? Looking at Rukl's Atlas of the Moon, plate 33, Ukert has an obvious central mountain. Presumably this is what Hoagland is calling a pyramid. I suppose under the right lighting conditions it would look as much like a pyramid as the ones on Mars, which of course don't look so good under higher-resolution photography. If anyone wants to take a look at Ukert, the ideal time would be around first or last quarter, since it's centrally located and any pyramids, or mountains, would appear in sharp relief. -- "Volleyball is racquetless team ping-pong played with an inflated ball and an elevated net while standing on the table." --George Carlin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 09:50:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16855; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:49:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:49:02 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980830124941.00c3cc44@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:49:41 +0000 To: "Meat Truck" From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Magnetic cement vs. Searl rollers. Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, vortex-L@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"y6OfF1.0.474.-9Owr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5874 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Meat; This is going to be hard to believe. I just fowarded Jed Rothwell's "Dennis Lee's Lament" (from Vortexb-L) to Professor Searl. Jed's message is a good account of how investors interpret behavior of inventors when evaluating their prototype for purchase. Right now, the technical people he's working with, and are buying his books, are attracting R&D funding but they are not sharing the money, nor are they consulting enough with, Professor Searl. They were able to make a roller that will orbit a plate, but there are stress cracks in the material and they will have to go up a square for better strength. I wrote that perhaps he would be interested in Jed's businessperson perspective message. I said that it would be an honor if he might consider hanging out on our email forums a bit (Vortex-L, Freenrgy, KeelyNet, etc.). Then I decided to check for new email one more time... I read your last message right after I click the send button. Personally I kinda respect Professor Searl and I'm concerned about the vein they pulled out of his leg. But even if I didn't like the guy, I would reserve my opinion until I had read everything he had to say about his technology. There are (God willing) 20+ volumes that are in the planning to be published in the series. The situation you describe might be compared to a second grade reading level trying to understand Shakespear. I'll buy what you got if you don't want Professor Searl's books. Since they are used, what do you think will be a fair discount? At 03:48 PM 8/28/98 -0500, you wrote: >This reminds me of a time long ago and forgotten by many. It was after >school in 1963 and I was watching "Wagon Train" at Darlene Krusinski's. I >didn't know then how things worked but when I watched the wheel it went >forward, and then backwards. Little could I ascertain that the projector >was showing phasing interactions. Incredible as it sounds over a quarter of >a century later while asleep during a repeat episode of wagon train a >bird,precisely a robin came to my window and repeatedly pecked until I had >awakened. There you go; this could be God himself trying to tell us to cool it! ;) >In that precise moment was the episode that made me remember what >was said. It sort of came back to haunt me.But in a realization is the fact >that magnetic imprints must surely follow suit with rotation. If the >frequency is sufficiently high in cohered fields such a multi-pole >wagon-wheel illusion imprint could be made on a rotating part. I have produced a ceramic disk magnet with what looks like a bubble under an iron filings type of magetic field viewer. So I remembered what Bob Grey said about perpendicular forces that magnetic bubbles produced when exposed to an ambient opposing magnetic field. I pushed a similar disk magnet with a normal field pattern right over the treated magnet which was laying flat on the table. Seeing the bubble magnet scoot right out the side was a surprising and memorable moment! Am I sure that this is a demonstration of a key effect of the Searl device? I'm optomistic but there are no conclusions yet, just a possible indication. I do think that the process was fun, and exciting though. I discovered this accidentally while I was trying to determine the magnetic polarity of a pulse from a coil. >Dreams are >hard to come by especially from birds. Maybe this is a bird brained >idea.Nevertheless I always remember the sweet times with Darlene in my >young age of misunderstanding. > It was such an adventure back then, wasn't it? :) Dennis You're in the 'zone' when: time flies by - following your nose - in focus - figuring things out - not worried about anything - having a great time - getting great stuff done - without really trying. The creative artistic state? Could (should?) the goal be the process? Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 10:43:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA32682; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:42:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:42:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199808301743.OAA14770@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:42:25 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The cause of the Earth's EM Field Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003201bdd40f$811e81a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"k4BL23.0.Z-7.8yOwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5875 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > The Earth is also a strong source of long waves, effected by the polar > aurorae. The mean long wave emission power is about 10^8 watts. > How could we tap this energy ? Building a parallel ressonant circuit tuned to 7.5 Hz ? --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 10:47:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03192; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:47:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:47:08 -0700 Delivered-To: fixup-freenrg-l@eskimo.com@fixme From: "Pat42" To: Subject: Re: Flanagan's Detector Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:45:33 -0700 Message-ID: <01bdd43d$fcaafdc0$60a7e1cf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"nv11X.0.nn.S0Pwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5876 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >With the MPF102 gate connected to the neg. battery, the source would be a >volt or so, that's 10% on your meter. With the gate floating, only with the >bifilar capacitance, I would guess a source voltage of 5V or more, >50%. Is >this what you measure? >-Dave I think it was more like 3V. I'll have to check, I could be completely wrong. Patrick Robbins Pat42@uswest.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 10:57:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA06730; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:55:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 10:55:53 -0700 Message-ID: <35E99244.6908@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:56:20 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Meat Truck CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, keelynet@DallasTexas.net Subject: Re: Magnetic cement vs. Searl rollers. References: <199808300929.FAA29708@fh102.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qmGCy2.0.4f1.e8Pwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5877 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Norris et al! Your concerns about the validity of Searls claims are shared by many including myself. However, I do think there is something going on though it is obfuscated by Searls incapacity or reticence to clearly explain the process. It appears he borrowed a tremendous amount of information from Schappeller, but it also appears he either stumbled on additional information or came up with something on his own that does indeed have merit. I am one who wants to know THE ORIGINAL SIMPLE EXPERIMENT that produced the anomaly in the first place. Many inventors in order to protect their invention, will 'complexify' the invention for patent since the original experiment was so simple anyone could do it and completely understand what is going on. An example is the case of EV Gray and his highly complex patented high voltage engine. The engine patent resulted from a simple experiment where he charged a high voltage capacitor, placed a magnet on a coil and discharged the high voltage into the coil for a very sharp, high intensity magnetic pulse that threw the magnet to the ceiling. From this he built the engine that was 'sellable' and 'patentable'. Now, for many years, the primary Searl experiment I'd heard about was the claim that Searl worked for a company which rewound electric motors. Somehow he observed that spinning metal will accumulate a charge on the outside of the metal. He theorized that centrifugal force in a spinning piece of metal would inertially throw the electrons to the outside of the ring from the center of the spinning metal. That was the basic effect and explanationas as I recall it having being explained over several reports. Now, in order to test this effect, he is supposed to have built a metal disc with a detachable coupling that was connected to a lawnmower engine. I don't know the actual size of the disc but I'm thinking one report said it was three feet in diameter. The story goes that he took this contraption out in the country in an open space surrounded by bushes. When he cranked up the gasoline engine, the disc increased in speed. Now I don't know if he had a remote throttle but as the speed increased, ionization of the local air and the characteristic pale blue glow indicated high voltage appeared on the outside rim of the disc. The reports say as the speed continued to increase, the ionization became so great that bushes 15 or so feet away were crackling with high voltage and at a certain critical velocity, the disc broke away from the detachable coupling, rose into the air to a height of about 30-50 feet (I don't recall the original height), where it stopped, hovered and continued to speedup, ON ITS OWN. As it speeded up, the pale blue glow of high voltage ionization changed to a pink color and it was at this point that the disc shot off into the upper atmosphere never to be seen again. Now that is the original report and all else that comes after I find a bit suspect as history is sometimes rewritten to mask out the early reports. Since KeelyNet has always taken a stance of collecting many seemingly disparate reports for the express purpose of CORRELATING common observations between the reports, there is one report that jumps out. This is a claim stated by Otis Carr in the file; http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/carr1.txt The main relevant comment is; > He (Carr) said the same "free energy" which causes the earth to > rotate on its axis and orbit around the sun will turn a machine > he described as two cones joined at their circular bases. > When the rotation of such a machine reaches a certain velocity > relative to the earth's orbital velocity, Carr said, it will take > off. There is some macro effect which kicks in when mass is either rotated to a certain critical velocity or vibrated to a point that it also achieves that velocity on a finer level. With the use of vibration, the mass is 'moving while standing still'......IMO many researchers discovered this effect and how to tap energy from it or produce phenemena such as gravity control (as Carr did). Now, back to Searl, some in our group had the opportunity to meet John Thomas and John Searl at two different conferences a couple of years ago. Searl was highly evasive when asked any technical question and his comments would drift from one seemingly unrelated anecdote to another. That's what we witnessed when groups of more than about 4 people were around him. One of our associates, Reuben Joswiak, noticed Searl was a bit lost as people weren't pleased with his reticence to answer tech questions so went to more informative speakers, so Reuben found Searl alone and sat down to talk with him. Reuben asked about the magnets and Searl said the Law of Squares books related a natural magnetic spin that is associated with each element in the periodic table. Searl claims that he found there is a rotational angle associated with each element and that you can blend each element together in such a way that the spins REINFORCE each other to produce a high intensity magnetic rotation from a fixed magnet. Such a fixed magnetic spin would make it possible to build a self-running magnetic device using cylindrical magnetic rollers. Searl told Reuben when you take two of these specially built magnets and placed them next to each other, they will rotate from simple proximity to each other. He explained to Reuben that you must mix the elements (4 of them specifically though other combinations were possible) so that they were cylinders within cylinders, all compressed into one solid cylindrical roller magnet and that these natural elemental spins would add to and reinforce each single element spin to create a combined powerful spin. Now, Reuben was telling us this as we drove back to Dallas and we were DUMBFOUNDED to say the least since never had any of us heard Searl speak about this in any conversation we heard from him or to others. Reuben never did write it down (specifically what the four preferred elements were) and we never managed to get together so I could tape his description and transcribe it for posterity but what is presented here is the essence of what Searl told Reuben. In an unrelated story, Searl also told Reuben about an inventor in the UK who he had known and who had 'disappeared' after he persisted in trying to get a patent on a hermetically sealed motor. Searl told Reuben this inventor built a motor and sealed it and the fuel tank from any outside air. He filled the tank with one pint of gasoline. When the motor was started, the gasoline was misted into the cylinder and exploded from a 50KV spark. Since there was no oxygen or other gases in the vacuum sealed engine, the gasoline DID NOT BURN, it just expanded to drive the piston. The vapor was collected and precipated back to a liquid stored in the fuel tank. This process could be repeated indefinitely since the only source of power needed was the high voltage spark. Searl said the engine was demonstrated and the inventor warned to be quiet or face the consequences, he disappeared shortly after as did the engine and all notes. Never heard of that happening before......but the story is interesting and infinitely testable. So, back to the flying disc, I do not know if Searl used magnets to increase the magnetic flux on the original disc experiment, though he claims to have done so in later experiments. Just as you can increase flux density by using an iron core transformer in favor of an air core transformer, so too can you increase the accumulation of electrons that would be thrown to the outside rim and provide the lift. Hamel reports the same thing, a spinning mass that accumulates electrons but in his case from air flow through the center of the unit, where ambient electrons are entrained and captured to accumulate on the outside spinning metal. The blue to pink color shift also was reported in his pictures as the device shot off into space, exactly like Searl's reports. So, to my way of thinking, with Searl we have two primary considerations to focus on; 1) most important, what is the phenomenon of rotation and high voltage that reaches a level to repel from the earth? 2) what are the actual construction details to make magnets that have an enhanced spin effect so that they run themselves? (it was reported Searl had a portable track with two of these special magnets, he would place them on the track and they would rotate around it on their own power, this was a demonstration used to convince investors of the self-powering effect) In my personal investigations, I am struck by a repeating observation that I recount yet again. There is a peculiar phenonmeon which transcends yet incorporates many seemingly disparate reports of not only antigravity but also energy production. My view of it is of an X where the center of the X is the 'bloch wall' or the center of gravity or Keelys 'neutral centre'. This is all based on Keely's Push, Balance and Pull. The top half is Push, the middle of the X is the Balance between the push and pull and the bottom is the Pull. The top half of the X requires energy to Push, accelerate or stimulate the test mass. As it approaches the center of the X in speed or vibration, it soon reaches a 'critical density', possibly centered within a thin band much like spillover on a bell curve. Once you get within this Balance region, the energy required to keep the mass excited or spinning begins to decrease and at resonance, at the middle of the X, it takes almost NO energy to keep it stimulated. NOW, if you keep adding energy to push or excite mass BEYOND this neutral center resonance, the test mass will begin to produce energy as it accelerates on its own, having achieved the Pull region. It is within this Pull region that it must be governed to prevent the destruction of the mass or its taking off into space because it is no longer connected to the gravity flows associated with the earth. Within this simple X observation is what I've long considered a major key to the production of phenomena ranging from gravity control to energy production, indeed to optimizing health, but that's another story. -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 12:05:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA31502; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:04:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:04:00 -0700 Message-ID: <35E9A208.BF3A24C9@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:03:37 -0600 From: Henry Curtis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The cause of the Earth's EM Field References: <3.0.5.32.19980829001026.00a7e100@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2MuSB2.0.2i7.V8Qwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5878 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For my money I like Hogland's rotating object theroy. Henry Curtis Lee Markland wrote: > Does anybody know for sure? Is there any definitive evidence of what is the > cause of the Earth's Electromagnetic field? > > For instance: > > Is it produced by activity in the core? > > Is it produced by friction between the core and the mantle? > > Is it produced in the mantle? > > Is it produced by friction between the mantle and the lithosphere? > > Has anybody asked these questions? > > Thanks > > Lee Markland From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 12:41:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08332; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:40:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:40:38 -0700 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Maxwell's Quarternians Message-ID: <19980830.154242.8015.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <1.5.4.32.19980829232446.00c25244@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-3,5-7,11-12,14-15,20-24 Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:41:07 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"nlrHU3.0.622.sgQwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5879 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:24:46 +0000 "Dennis C. Lee" writes: >I recently discovered that Maxwell's equations are really an >incomplete version of the his theory. The equations are Oliver Heavyside's >interpretation of Maxwell's work. This concurrs with what Bearden has been saying for years. Doug Sweetser has a quaternion page and is looking for lonks between gravitation and EM, but has otherwise confined his "thinking" to mainstream physics, which will ultimately limit his results. >Only the 1873 first edition of "Treatise of Electricity and Magnitism" has the original >quarternian math. His third edition limits quaternion math to one section, 618. It begins on page 257 of the 1954 Dover Edition. The section is titled "Quaternion Expressions for the Electromagnetic Equations", and is more of a summary. Otherwise, the book is wrote in vector notation in the older rectangular format. It does show the scalar term in other places, however. Steve Heckman _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 15:38:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08023; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:36:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:36:52 -0700 Message-ID: <35E9D636.98E80E59@servtech.com> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:46:15 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Maxwell's Quarternians References: <1.5.4.32.19980829232446.00c25244@popd.ix.netcom.com> <19980830.154242.8015.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6VU773.0.Gz1.3GTwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5880 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For those of you interested in quaternions... See if you can't locate a copy of a book called "Universal Mechanics and Hamiltons Quarternions" by Otto F. Fischer, 1951. The begining of the preface reads: "This is a book written by a civil engineer on universal mechanics with an attempt to introduce a certain order in its mathematical structure by means of the calculus of Hamiltons Quaterions." Contents include: Maxwells equations and Minkowskis space Quaternionian deduction of Maxwells equations on wave form The electromagnetic quaternionian potential pyramid etc. This is *not* for the math faint of heart. Very deep very quickly. The book is not *just* quaternions but other mathematical structures related or derived from quaternions. I have done a lot of library research on quaternions and EM years ago. There are some nice papers in the literature if you look for them. This book does not seem to be widely referenced in the papers I have seen, so I don't have any good idea if this book is of any use to anyone. Bob Gray steve-nyeoka@juno.com wrote: > On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:24:46 +0000 "Dennis C. Lee" > writes: > >I recently discovered that Maxwell's equations are really an > >incomplete version of the his theory. The equations are Oliver > Heavyside's > >interpretation of Maxwell's work. > > This concurrs with what Bearden has been saying for years. Doug Sweetser > has a quaternion page and is looking for lonks between gravitation and > EM, but has otherwise confined his "thinking" to mainstream physics, > which will ultimately limit his results. > > >Only the 1873 first edition of "Treatise of Electricity and Magnitism" > has the original >quarternian math. > > His third edition limits quaternion math to one section, 618. It begins > on page 257 of the 1954 Dover Edition. The section is titled "Quaternion > Expressions for the Electromagnetic Equations", and is more of a summary. > Otherwise, the book is wrote in vector notation in the older rectangular > format. > > It does show the scalar term in other places, however. > > Steve Heckman > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 15:46:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11010; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:45:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:45:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980830015742.00a9fc10@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 01:57:42 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: The cause of the Earth's EM Field In-Reply-To: <003201bdd40f$811e81a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"aVLEt2.0.xh2.-NTwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5881 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks for the information, I appreciate it. Question: How do we know for sure what the consituency of the Earth's core is, or even what the constiuency of the mantles is. To my knowledge there has been no deep borings and samples. And it appears to me that seismological surveys can only yield graphs, but not yield data as to mineralogical makeup of the mantle and core. Or can it? In other words, outside of theory, is there any definitive proof, like sampling? According to the law of the centrifuge, all of the heavier metals should be congregated at the lithosphere or at least the upper mantle, not the Earth's core. The Earth has been rotating for some 4.5 billion years. When it was first formed, the Earth was in a molten state and was rotating faster than today. The highest density matter would have migrated to the outer layers. The statement that the core consists of heavy metals and comprises 24% of the Earth's mass seems to be inconsistent with this law. Or has the law of the centrifuge been suspended to enable other theories. Any comments? Lee Markland Lee Markland At 01:12 PM 8/30/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee and All > >The Earth has a dipole magnetic field just a bar magnet, with the south pole >in the northern hemisphere and the north pole in the southern hemisphere. >The Earth's liquid outer core, which is a conductor, generates this field >from convection and its rotation. This field is modulated by the magnetism >of some rocks and also by electrical currents in the ionosphere and >magnetosphere. > >The Earth's core consists of mainly iron, comprising 24 percent of the >Earth's mass. There is also nickel and sulphur, comprising 3 and 5 percent >of the Earth's mass respectively. > >The rotation / convection process of the core is, not surprisingly, poorly >understood as it is not easy to replicate the conditions in a lab. Many >measurements are based on the propagation of seismic waves through the >globe. > >Geological studies of PM rocks indicate that the polarity of the Earth's >magnetic field reverses every ten 4,000 years or so. > >The Earth is also a strong source of long waves, effected by the polar >aurorae. The mean long wave emission power is about 10^8 watts. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland > > >>Does anybody know for sure? Is there any definitive evidence of what is the >>cause of the Earth's Electromagnetic field? > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 15:47:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11165; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:45:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:45:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980830034403.00aaa100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 03:44:03 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Magnetic cement vs. Searl rollers. In-Reply-To: <199808300929.FAA29708@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"FCXeN1.0.Hk2.HOTwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5882 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't understand all that is said below, but I can add this to the discussion. Aluminum when set to a high spin can be magnetized. Evidently because of its soft construction the normally heterogeneous molecular construction, is when set to a high spin, realigned homogenously thus enabling aluminum to act like ferrous metal (whose molecules are also homogenously aligned). When the aluminum stops spinning, it loses its magnetic propensity and charge. Whether or not this has anything to do with The below or with Searle I don't know. Lee Markland. At 02:24 PM 8/28/98 -0500, you wrote: >Having spent some time away from civilization I had the misfortune of >reading the so called Law of the Squares, Books 1,1a,1b,2. It was puffed up >with so much superlative info. as to make it almost worthless. After my >vacation I saw some follow up info on Keelynet or somewhere that indicated >that a historical research of Searl showed some shaky shenanigans. So at >that point I accepted that Searl was a fraud, but a lot of things just >didn't jive. Anyone familiar with this guy should know he keeps going to a >dream, but I understood his dream in a different context. As part of that >dream goes he is a child playing hop-scotch. I had to ask people how this >game works because I cant remember anything about it. But what I am told >is that a stone or marker is thrown to the square that has to be hopped >over. In Searls dream his pebble is on 3 and he jumping to 4,when >everything stops. > Now Searl proposes a system of rings and rollers. Each of these >consist of 4 layers of materials. If I remember right: >aluminum,nylon,neodymium,copper. Sounds like a damn expensive proposition >to me. Now you have to magnetise and imprint an alternating current on >these rollers. Even though no one understands how that can be done, or do >they? Yes there are claims of AC imprinting on ferrites. Out of hundreds of >pages of semi-useless information I have found the following hints; > The concept at stage 1... equals a two state condition: >State 1.... A solid ring,formed by various layers then imprinted with an >D.C PLUS A.C. pulse. >State 2.... A roller,formed with similar materials, and printed by similar >methods. > The first objective is to make the roller blank correct, until you >have this right, there is no sense continuing with the rest,once the roller >is correct in manufacturing, its plate can be made. > Now to leave Searls spelling behind lets just drop his whole >proposition into the rubbish bin of history and consider the following. >The concentric rings can be be viewed as an axial capacitor from above. >In between the rings an electric field exists which can come from a power >source. Also within these rings rollers exist;constructed of a dielectric >material to amplify not just the electric field, but also the magnetic. To >serve this purpose a cement/ferrite/additive/water mixture is allowed to >cure in rotation to cohered fields. An amazing amount of water is absorbed >in crystalline cement formation. In fact if a magnetic field is made to act >in concert with the electric at right angles a third force acts at right >angles to both which is in the direction of both rotation and precession of >the rollers. Now to further complicate matters the charge movement through >space that this Lorentz force mechanism acts only occurs at sufficiently >high frequencies to become practical. This is what started me thinking >about that time when I replaced the insulated parts of a tesla primary arc >gap with cement block. The arc conducted through the cement instead of the >air because it was conductive at that frequency. This whole subject that I >am driving at is that Searl may be presenting a mistruth, hey who knows >maybe he is working for a bigger paymaster. Sincere in the truth: H. Norris >mnorris@akron.infi.net > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 16:37:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA30932; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:35:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:35:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980830071602.00a94740@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 07:16:02 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: The cause of the Earth's EM Field In-Reply-To: <35E9A208.BF3A24C9@ix.netcom.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980829001026.00a7e100@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"B-Cil.0.EZ7.C7Uwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5883 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have grave reservations about Hoagland, but mainly from an analysis of his personality. I heard him on the Laura Lee show in the first half hour whining about the "shoddy" treatment he has received from the mainstream, and then when the name of Fred Steckling (Alien Bases on the Moon) was brought up, he snickered, and proceeded to dish out that which he receives from the mainstream. And if something is rotating then something must be making it rotate. IMO any current movement, requires a current force, and a current force requires a physical process. Hence if the Earth is rotating, something must be making it rotate, perhaps interaction between the gravitational field of the sun and the Earth. Just a stab. Lee At 01:03 PM 8/30/98 -0600, you wrote: >For my money I like Hogland's rotating object theroy. > >Henry Curtis > >Lee Markland wrote: > >> Does anybody know for sure? Is there any definitive evidence of what is the >> cause of the Earth's Electromagnetic field? >> >> For instance: >> >> Is it produced by activity in the core? >> >> Is it produced by friction between the core and the mantle? >> >> Is it produced in the mantle? >> >> Is it produced by friction between the mantle and the lithosphere? >> >> Has anybody asked these questions? >> >> Thanks >> >> Lee Markland > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 17:11:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11068; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:10:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:10:21 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The cause of the Earth's EM Field Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 00:11:20 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35ebe9e1.326326727@mail-hub> References: <199808301743.OAA14770@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> In-Reply-To: <199808301743.OAA14770@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uv3cd.0.Wi2.jdUwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5884 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:42:25 -3, Marcelo Puhl wrote: >> >> The Earth is also a strong source of long waves, effected by the polar >> aurorae. The mean long wave emission power is about 10^8 watts. >> > >How could we tap this energy ? > >Building a parallel ressonant circuit tuned to 7.5 Hz ? [snip] If this is in any way related to human brain wave activity, then tapping it may not be such a hot idea. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 17:16:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12477; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:13:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:13:30 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 00:14:30 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35ecea64.326457481@mail-hub> References: <199808291825.LAA09430@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <35f330ae.15695018@mail.zip.com.au> In-Reply-To: <35f330ae.15695018@mail.zip.com.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"T_3xJ.0.t23.ggUwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5885 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:03:40 GMT, Alan Schneider wrote: [snip] >*Very* good point. >It's just as important to know for certain what *doesn't* work >(to avoid wasting time re-tilling soil that has already been >thoroughly turned) as it is to know what *might* possibly have >a chance of working with a bit of fiddling and/or work. > >Alan While I agree with the sentiment expressed here, I would point out that you can't prove a negative. I.e. you can't ever say "this definitely doesn't work". Nevertheless you could assign probabilities. That way people might spend more effort on that which is most likely to work. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 18:02:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26602; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:58:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:58:30 -0700 Message-ID: <35EA1D79.6DA5@tiac.net> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:50:17 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Alternatives for inventors' disease References: <199808291825.LAA09430@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <35f330ae.15695018@mail.zip.com.au> <35ecea64.326457481@mail-hub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BjGRd2.0.NV6.rKVwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5886 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:03:40 GMT, Alan Schneider wrote: > [snip] > >*Very* good point. > >It's just as important to know for certain what *doesn't* work > >(to avoid wasting time re-tilling soil that has already been > >thoroughly turned) as it is to know what *might* possibly have > >a chance of working with a bit of fiddling and/or work. > > > >Alan > While I agree with the sentiment expressed here, I would point out > that you can't prove a negative. I.e. you can't ever say "this > definitely doesn't work". Nevertheless you could assign probabilities. > That way people might spend more effort on that which is most likely > to work. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk That is only true in theory. In practice, we can say what will not work under two sets of conditions: first, the device in question has been properly tested and proven not to work, or secondly, when the key operating principles have been properly proven unworkable. An example of the first case might be the Magnetic Resonance Amplifier, or MRA. This device has been tested and proven to be well under 100% efficient. Good examples of the second case are any of the variable reluctance devices and also the N machines. Conventional physics tell us why these devices are limited to sub-unity operaton. Its been wisely written here before that if you think you have a way to get over unity operation using conventional physics, then you are mistaken. Without a new phenomena outside of conventional physics, no clever arangement of parts is going to bypass the known laws of physics. So no incremental improvements in efficiency of existing devices will yeild over unity operation. This lets us reject over 50% of the claims of over unity operation without much effort. We do know a lot about what simply cannot work. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 18:11:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA30306; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:08:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:08:59 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980831010900.0069f258@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:09:00 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Magnetic cement vs. Searl rollers. Resent-Message-ID: <"yoPXS.0.QP7.gUVwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5887 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:24 PM 8/28/98 -0500, you wrote: research of Searl showed some shaky shenanigans. So at >that point I accepted that Searl was a fraud, but a lot of things just >didn't jive. Anyone familiar with this guy should know he keeps going to a >dream, I've said it before ,If you can build something in your garage that can take off into space why not develop it rather than other pie in the sky ideas. Unless of course it didn't work and if it didn't work all future claims would be suspect. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 18:38:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05347; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:36:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:36:01 -0700 Message-ID: <007e01bdd47f$40308a60$8cec060c@davelook> From: "davelook" To: Subject: Re: Water Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:32:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"ME13Q1.0.PJ1.0uVwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5888 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris, Patrick Flanagan wrote an excellent book on water called "Elixir of the Ageless". It is currently being rewritten, tho. He thinks low surface tension water is better, overall. >Recently, I picked up a magazine called "Lifestyle and wellness". In the >Summer 98 issue distributed mainly in the Toronto area and Canada >(416-492-6598). There is an interesting article on Water and health. In the >article some researchers claim that IR absorption of water changes when >exposed to magnetic energy and also when held by healers and others >depending on their state of mind etc. They also refer to work of Water >Sciences Research in Dallas Texas (972-682-9162). Has anyone heard of their >work? > >This would be a good way to corroborate Davis and Rawls work which showed >that surface tension of water increased with north pole and decreased with >south pole treated water. > >I am planning to build a simple IR LED and photo cell set up to do my own >experiments. But am still confused as to what all this means. Is low >surface tension water more healthy? Or the high surface tension north pole >water better? In my experience the this tastes much better than the south >pole water. Specifically what type of water would enhance antioxidant >qualities? I am getting to the point that ozonized water may be the only >definitive way to go - but it tastes like Hydrogen peroxide! You get used to it. I also run a device with keeps the indoor ozone level at what you find outdoors in alpine environments. Around .05% I believe. > >I have been interested in water for a long time but keep getting mixed >messages in regard to health benefits of various treatments of water? Then >there is the potential and question for energy generation from different >types of water electrolysis?? Dose anyone know of a good book in this >subject. Christopher Bird was writing one - but his untimely and most >unfortunate death disrupted that project. I believe his wife was to >complete it and publish it - but have not heard nothing. > >Chris Gupta > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 18:55:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10208; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:52:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:52:27 -0700 Message-ID: <35EA01D9.CE8BCA28@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:52:25 -0600 From: Henry Curtis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The cause of the Earth's EM Field References: <3.0.5.32.19980829001026.00a7e100@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980830071602.00a94740@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_gA2G1.0.IV2.Q7Wwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5889 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee, Hogland's character and behaviour are one thing. His research is another. I am to understand you wish to judge the data of an experiment by the social standing of the data taker? Regards, Henry Lee Markland wrote: > I have grave reservations about Hoagland, but mainly from an analysis of > his personality. I heard him on the Laura Lee show in the first half hour > whining about the "shoddy" treatment he has received from the mainstream, > and then when the name of Fred Steckling (Alien Bases on the Moon) was > brought up, he snickered, and proceeded to dish out that which he receives > from the mainstream. > > And if something is rotating then something must be making it rotate. > > IMO any current movement, requires a current force, and a current force > requires a physical process. Hence if the Earth is rotating, something must > be making it rotate, perhaps interaction between the gravitational field of > the sun and the Earth. > > Just a stab. > > Lee > > At 01:03 PM 8/30/98 -0600, you wrote: > >For my money I like Hogland's rotating object theroy. > > > >Henry Curtis > > > >Lee Markland wrote: > > > >> Does anybody know for sure? Is there any definitive evidence of what is the > >> cause of the Earth's Electromagnetic field? > >> > >> For instance: > >> > >> Is it produced by activity in the core? > >> > >> Is it produced by friction between the core and the mantle? > >> > >> Is it produced in the mantle? > >> > >> Is it produced by friction between the mantle and the lithosphere? > >> > >> Has anybody asked these questions? > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Lee Markland > > > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 30 21:46:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01774; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:45:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:45:45 -0700 Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808310446.VAA29015@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: The cause of the Earth's EM Field Resent-Message-ID: <"r-i8O1.0.YR.ufYwr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5892 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:57 AM 8/30/98 -0700, Lee wrote: >Thanks for the information, I appreciate it. > >According to the law of the centrifuge, all of the heavier metals should be >congregated at the lithosphere or at least the upper mantle, not the >Earth's core. The Earth has been rotating for some 4.5 billion years. When >it was first formed, the Earth was in a molten state and was rotating >faster than today. The highest density matter would have migrated to the >outer layers. > >The statement that the core consists of heavy metals and comprises 24% of >the Earth's mass seems to be inconsistent with this law. > >Or has the law of the centrifuge been suspended to enable other theories. > >Any comments? What about gravity and buoyancy?