From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 1 21:21:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA05331; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 21:15:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 21:15:14 -0700 Message-ID: <20000902041439.4780.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 21:14:39 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"5B__B.0.7J1.Ix7iv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16604 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: NE Ohio Teslathon/ 3 phase demonstration. I am resending the following post sent to tesla list to freenrg list to see if any resident electrical engineers have any answers, so if it taxes the mind thats good. HDN --- harvey norris wrote: > Most households dont have the following items in > order, neither a 3 phase power supply nor a home > alternator to give that possibility. Since I have > the > second option I have been mulling over in my mind > what > kind of demo to give with this machine to show what > may be overlooked. The machine operates at 360 hz, > but > only 25 volts output per phase, but also enabling a > 6 > fold increase of a coils systems q in comparison to > 60 > hz. Using a .15 Henry 12 ohm load in series > resonance > from 360 hz on each of the isolated phases can then > produce 2 amps current conduction on each phase > which > can be measured. Then I will make the somewhat > implausible connection of a WYE inserted short > across > the midpoints of all 3 series resonances, which are > made in order and not mirror image or opposite. > > Before I start hearing all the "Know it all" > responces > which are conspicuously abscent concerning 3 phase, > and the assertion that what I have described is only > a > typical wye circuit configuration, I would first ask > several simple questions which I dont claim to know > the answer to. But perhaps unlike others I have a > better guess from likewise explorations of the BRS > idea. The first of these questions and answers seem > easy, but they may not be. > > The first question is what will happen when the WYE > is > placed as a short on the isolated 3 phases each > powering a series resonance? The astute electrical > engineer might start running for a textbook > definition > of that circuit which schematically represents > something like a wye within a delta. When these > redrawn lines are analysed, it now appears with a > circuit showing not one possibility but two as > current > paths. The interior current path shows 3 tank > circuits > arranged in wye, the outer path still shows the same > 3 > ordered series resonances in delta. Thus it is not > specifically delta or wye but both probabilities > placed in parallel. Now because the coil systems > each > have a q of 28 at 360 hz, when the coil system is in > series resonance it has an internally generated > voltage rise that can be taken from its midpoint and > interacted with another series resonant midpoint. In > the BRS that other midpoint is 180 phased but in the > 3 > phase analogy the same midpoint interaction can be > distributed as arcing between the three midpoints, > for > a 3 phase high frequency adaptation of the BRS > principle, of interacting series resonances at their > midpoint paths between circuits. Using this idea the > worlds first truly 3 phase tesla coil system can be > made using three secondaries passing the arc in a > bipolar disharge of arcs each appearing in relative > timing to produce the illusion of an arc in > torroidal > formation chasing itself in a triangular ring of > fire. > I have placed a preliminary letter concerning this > matter to Marc Metlica at the messageboard in latest > entry. But I have got far ahead here past the > preliminary concepts, which are namely what will > occur > if this WYE exists as a short with no triple arc > gap? > > My initial prediction may be wrong but I predict > that > the circuit will only obey the tank configuration, > and > not the series resonant option. This is because > thats > what the BRS does in analogy, it has an exterior > pathway option of series resonances, and an interior > pathway option of parallel resonance, and it always > chooses the tank circuit path, even though that path > is q squared more impedance. But in that analogy the > center path is unity which does not apply in 3 phase > because of 120 phase angles, and sharing of phases > from both sides of that midpoint path. But if the > same > situation were to occur as does in a BRS we could > conclude that the amperage input will go down 28*28 > fold on each branch with insertion of the WYE as a > short within the delta configuration of ordered > series > resonances. This means the 2 Amp input will be > reduced > 784 times to a mere 2.5 ma! So there's my predicted > result, which obviously might be in error to the > real > world results, but these will be seen on testing, > which is not yet made. > > In other matters related to three phase the > following > question with easier answers is sought. Given that > three isolated phases are made to power isolated > equal impedance loads,from an AC alternator with > independently isolated phases as that input:if the > corners of those input phases are connected this > must > now be equivalent to the delta configuration. Doesnt > the corresponding voltage arrived at by delta > configuration have to be below what would be > delivered > if the phases were isolated? There is some confusion > there in regard to how the line voltage is said to > be > 30 degreees off the phase voltage in delta > configuration? If this is true then the idea of > using > isolated phases must have some merit after all, > since > using them independently would deliver a higher > voltage to each phase? > > Sincerely > Harvey D Norris > Host of NE Ohio Teslathon Sept 16, 2000 > > > > > > > > > > ===== > Binary Resonant > Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from > anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 1 21:33:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA10168; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 21:29:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 21:29:18 -0700 Message-ID: <20000902042840.15725.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 21:28:40 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"ocYST2.0.jU2.U88iv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16605 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: TCBA Records I think that if any one is selling them they wouldnt indicate so on a list, because that is a rather exclusive group that does not freely give the info over the internet. If anyone sold them other than Harry Goldman they would be in violation of the unspoken rules. I know it would piss Harry Goldman off. If he wanted it to be an internet thing for free that would be different. But Im sure he sells past copies that are available in ordinary paper form.HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 1 22:48:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA32466; Fri, 1 Sep 2000 22:47:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 22:47:50 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000901224912.2edfd2fc@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 22:49:12 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: NE Ohio Teslathon/ 3 phase demonstration. In-Reply-To: <20000902041439.4780.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"W9DCu.0.Bx7.4I9iv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16606 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Harvey, I need some help understanding your post. At 09:14 PM 09/01/00 -0700, you wrote: >> from 360 hz on each of the isolated phases can then ^^^^^^^^ >> produce 2 amps current conduction on each phase >> which >> can be measured. Then I will make the somewhat >> implausible connection of a WYE inserted short >> across >> the midpoints of all 3 series resonances, which are >> made in order and not mirror image or opposite. >> Could you please explain your configuration more? Is the alternator output 3 isolated phases or 3 connected in a "delta" connection (see marked words)? Where are the series resonances - is each "delta" leg composed of a alternator winding with 0.15H inductance and a corresponding capacitor to resonate at 360Hz? >> The first question is what will happen when the WYE >> is >> placed as a short on the isolated 3 phases each >> powering a series resonance? Is the WYE another circuit or a common short so that each L-C midpoint are all connected together? >> paths. The interior current path shows 3 tank >> circuits >> arranged in wye, the outer path still shows the same >> 3 >> ordered series resonances in delta. ^^^^^ Given that >> three isolated phases are made to power isolated >> equal impedance loads,from an AC alternator with >> independently isolated phases as that input:if the >> corners of those input phases are connected this >> must >> now be equivalent to the delta configuration. Doesnt >> the corresponding voltage arrived at by delta >> configuration have to be below what would be >> delivered >> if the phases were isolated? Not leg to leg as that is the same as an isolated phase as you point out. Perhaps you are referring to a leg to "neutral", the center point in the "delta" triangle vector diagram? -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 2 00:46:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA18279; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 00:44:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 00:44:30 -0700 Message-ID: <39B0B17C.90B87C8D@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 03:51:24 -0400 From: Mike Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pNKVz2.0.ST4.U_Aiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16607 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: New face on mars!!! Hi All, I found this breaking news story and copied it. Pretty cool! MJ http://members.xoom.com/enki_12/epbimages/face.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 2 12:30:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25275; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 12:26:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 12:26:33 -0700 Message-ID: <20000902192558.7510.qmail@web4405.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 12:25:58 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: NE Ohio Teslathon/ 3 phase demonstration. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"1KWIv3.0.nA6.fHLiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16608 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- Dave Dameron wrote: > Hi Harvey, > I need some help understanding your post. > At 09:14 PM 09/01/00 -0700, you wrote: > > >> from 360 hz on each of the > isolated phases can then > ^^^^^^^^ > >> produce 2 amps current conduction on each phase > >> which > >> can be measured. Then I will make the somewhat > >> implausible connection of a WYE inserted short > >> across > >> the midpoints of all 3 series resonances, which > are > >> made in order and not mirror image or opposite. > >> > Could you please explain your configuration more? Is > the alternator output > 3 isolated phases or 3 connected in a "delta" > connection (see marked > words)? Yes, the phases are isolated. It is my understanding that connecting or shorting 3 wires between the corners of the phases is equivalent to arranging the circuit in delta. Now what I am unsure of is what that effect has, doesnt it reduce the voltage then seen accross each phase, or does it remain the same? I am not employing this in my example however. The interphasal lines will be made inside the 3 independent phases by connecting all of the series resonances at their midpoints,(between the L and C quantities) in a wye formation. So it isnt really a wye within a delta, rather a wye inserted between the three isolated phases. Where are the series resonances - is each > "delta" leg composed of a > alternator winding with 0.15H inductance and a > corresponding capacitor to > resonate at 360Hz? Yes, but as I have mentioned it is isolated phasing used in the onset, not the delta. I am confused as to the relationship between what the islotated phases will do in comparison to an actual delta configuration, which I may have initially erroneously assumed to be identical. > >> The first question is what will happen when the > WYE > >> is > >> placed as a short on the isolated 3 phases each > >> powering a series resonance? > Is the WYE another circuit or a common short so that > each L-C midpoint are > all connected together? A common short. > >> paths. The interior current path shows 3 tank > >> circuits > >> arranged in wye, the outer path still shows the > same > >> 3 > >> ordered series resonances in > delta. > ^^^^^ > > Given that > >> three isolated phases are made to power isolated > >> equal impedance loads,from an AC alternator with > >> independently isolated phases as that input:if > the > >> corners of those input phases are connected this > >> must > >> now be equivalent to the delta configuration. > Doesnt > >> the corresponding voltage arrived at by delta > >> configuration have to be below what would be > >> delivered > >> if the phases were isolated? > Not leg to leg as that is the same as an isolated > phase as you point out. Thats what I thought also. Therefore if I am getting 25 volts on each leg or isolated phase, connecting the 3 corners to delta should not change the voltage, if I understand what you are saying. > Perhaps you are referring to a leg to "neutral", the > center point in the > "delta" triangle vector diagram? > -Dave D. No, with balanced loads in delta, there is no return wire, it uses one of the the other phases for the return wire. Only in wye is there a fourth neutral wire connected at the wye intersection for return currents made by application of unbalanced loads. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 2 14:04:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA22129; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 14:03:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 14:03:48 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: New face on mars!!! Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 08:03:10 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <39B0B17C.90B87C8D@csrlink.net> In-Reply-To: <39B0B17C.90B87C8D@csrlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA22100 Resent-Message-ID: <"49vsX2.0.fP5.piMiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16609 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Sat, 02 Sep 2000 03:51:24 -0400: >Hi All, > I found this breaking news story and copied it. Pretty cool! >MJ >http://members.xoom.com/enki_12/epbimages/face.htm Cute fake ;). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 2 14:58:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA06603; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 14:58:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 14:58:07 -0700 Message-ID: <39B17991.734606C5@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 18:05:05 -0400 From: Mike Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: New face on mars!!! References: <39B0B17C.90B87C8D@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sUMA_2.0.4d1.kVNiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16610 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Robin, Thanks, it was just a quickie job, I thought Hoegland looked good there. MJ Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Sat, 02 Sep 2000 03:51:24 -0400: > > >Hi All, > > I found this breaking news story and copied it. Pretty cool! > >MJ > >http://members.xoom.com/enki_12/epbimages/face.htm > > Cute fake ;). > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do > to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 2 19:49:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA17488; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 19:48:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 19:48:40 -0700 Message-ID: <39B1BDB3.DF2EDBF9@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 22:55:47 -0400 From: Mike Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"i3xPS3.0.1H4.8mRiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16611 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: want to be an "Exotic research" Member? Exotic Research - http://www.exoticresearch.com Dear Member, In 1984, I helped found the International Tesla Society. For the next 12 years, I gave a major portion of my time, money and life to shaping, and building the Society into a world class forum for new and unusual ideas. I left the Tesla Society in December of 1995 primarily because it was starting to get unfocused as to its primary purpose in life… providing people with information. At that time, I made a conscious decision to build Exotic Research into what I created for the International Tesla Society. Exotic Research has come a long way over the past few years since I left the International Tesla Society. This has been in spite of some tremendous hurdles that I encountered over the past few years. When I left the Tesla Society, I lost literally everything I had, except for the clothes on my back and two computers in the back seat of a borrowed car. I ended up in the middle of the Sonoran Desert with less than fifty cents in my pocket. Fortunately, I was able to set up shop at a friend’s trailer in the desert. He needed someone to watch the place so that he could move into town and continue his education. Although it was rent-free, the trailer had no heating or air-conditioning… it was a wreck. It’s only salvation was that it didn’t leak, it had two phone lines, and electricity. It was a lonely life, with very little personal comfort, and a nocturnal work schedule due to the intense heat. Nonetheless, I managed to get magazines out and held two conferences, before I was able to move to a better facility. Since I moved to the new facility, Michelle has come into my life and she shares my struggles now. For a long time Michelle made her money by trading, salvaging and selling various items at a local flea market… in essence, she operated a thrift shop out of a truck. Occasionally, she does come across antiques which she places on consignment in the local antique stores. Soon, she hopes to have her own website to market her antiques and collectibles. Since its inception, Exotic Research has had to pay cash up front for everything, and schedules are based on money available, rather than what can actually be done physically. The lack of money slows everything down and messes up the timing of the operation. It makes bootstrapping more difficult. In order to help Exotic Research grow, I have used very little personal money and live in the same building as our office. Additionally, for three years, I have operated without a reliable vehicle in which to get around. As we are 40 miles from town, this has also hampered our ability to operate on schedule. Despite all of the problems, both Michelle (my wife) and I are determined to make Exotic Research successful. But we need help now. The basic underlying problem is the lack of sufficient operating capital. Had the proper credit or capital been in place, many of the hardships and expenses would not have been incurred. At this time, we have just about given up on a major investor getting involved. We have had our hopes dashed too many times by what turned out to be false promises. Instead, we have decided to appeal to the membership to help us build Exotic Research into a world class organization that we all can be proud of. To do this, we decided to add two levels of membership and benefits to the organization: 1. Supporter ($100 annually) – · Framed certificate of membership · Hand painted Exotic Research T-shirt (please send size) · Inventor Contact List 2. Sustainer ($1000 annually) – · Framed certificate of membership · Hand painted Exotic Research T-shirt (please send size) · Inventor Contact List · VIP Pass to Exotic Research Conference · Exotic Research Monthly Newsletter (information on projects we are actively involved with) In addition, all of the prayers sent our way, cash donations of any size, or donations of equipment or supplies are all deeply appreciated. We can put used equipment to good use. Recently we received a terrific radial saw and 8-ft table with guides that are in place in our workshop. As a fundraiser for Exotic Research, Michelle has volunteered to clean, restore and resell materials we are unable to utilize. With a motto of "Your junk, my treasure!", Michelle believes every item has a buyer…. You just have to wait for them… and usually you don’t have to wait that long. Your support WILL make a difference. Instead of my attention being diverted to beating the bushes looking for capital… or juggling the cash flow to get things done, I could focus on matters like… expanding the selection of books for the catalog… improving the quality and timeliness of the magazine… airing a weekly radio show… and putting books and videos together from the materials I have on hand. The sky is the limit… and everybody wins! Time is of the essence. Financially, Conference 2000 hurt us pretty bad and we have depleted our funds to cover some of the conference expenses. As a consequence, we do have some outstanding bills that need to be paid yesterday. Once these immediate bills are covered, we can begin rebuilding for the future. We do have some financial support promised, but at this time, those funds are still unavailable. A little generosity goes a long way in times like these. Not only will it help a cause you believe in, but enable us to lay the foundation for future growth and expansion. I can be reached at (520) 424-3581 nearly anytime day or night, as generally, I only go to the post office or bank. I am looking forward to hearing from you soon. Sincerely, Steven R. Elswick & T. Michelle Elswick Publisher & Customer Service Manager (520) 424-3581 exotic@casagrande.com ______________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, write to exoticresearch-unsubscribe@listbot.com Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com/links/joinlb From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 2 20:27:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA31516; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:26:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:26:41 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990204071629.00c12a20@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 07:18:02 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: New face on mars!!! In-Reply-To: <39B0B17C.90B87C8D@csrlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"l35VB3.0.Hi7.nJSiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16612 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Oh that's just the new Lake Hoagland development Ben thinking of buying into a time share At 03:51 AM 9/2/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hi All, > I found this breaking news story and copied it. Pretty cool! >MJ >http://members.xoom.com/enki_12/epbimages/face.htm Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 2 21:32:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA16270; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 21:30:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 21:30:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000902213251.2caf0f02@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 21:32:51 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: NE Ohio Teslathon/ 3 phase demonstration. In-Reply-To: <20000902192558.7510.qmail@web4405.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZipfS3.0.7-3.cFTiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16613 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Harvey, At 12:25 PM 09/02/00 -0700, you wrote: >> Could you please explain your configuration more? Is >> the alternator output >> 3 isolated phases or 3 connected in a "delta" >> connection (see marked >> words)? >Yes, the phases are isolated. Is there the 12 Ohm load (3 of them) on each winding (L + C) to have the series resonance currents of 2A? > Where are the series resonances - is each >> "delta" leg composed of a >> alternator winding with 0.15H inductance and a >> corresponding capacitor to >> resonate at 360Hz? >Yes, but as I have mentioned it is isolated phasing >used in the onset, not the delta. I am confused as to >the relationship between what the islotated phases >will do in comparison to an actual delta >configuration, which I may have initially erroneously >assumed to be identical. >> >> The first question is what will happen when the >> WYE >> >> is >> >> placed as a short on the isolated 3 phases each >> >> powering a series resonance? >> Is the WYE another circuit or a common short so that >> each L-C midpoint are >> all connected together? >A common short. Then there should be no effect, as the voltage between each of the 3 isolated circuits is undefined, except by the common connection, only the relative phases are determined in the isolated case. >> Not leg to leg as that is the same as an isolated >> phase as you point out. >Thats what I thought also. Therefore if I am getting >25 volts on each leg or isolated phase, connecting the >3 corners to delta should not change the voltage, if >I understand what you are saying. I agree. A way to get the neutral, not present with the "delta" connection, would be to connect another "wye" transformer across the 3 wires and get the neutral from that. -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 2 21:40:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA18432; Sat, 2 Sep 2000 21:39:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 21:39:53 -0700 Message-ID: <39B1D7C1.20FE9C1D@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 00:46:57 -0400 From: Mike Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: New face on mars!!! References: <4.2.0.58.19990204071629.00c12a20@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TPqMY3.0.qV4.OOTiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16614 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com hehe, I should have thought to include the development! MJ Charles Ford wrote: > > Oh that's just the new Lake Hoagland development > Ben thinking of buying into a time share > > At 03:51 AM 9/2/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi All, > > I found this breaking news story and copied it. Pretty cool! > >MJ > >http://members.xoom.com/enki_12/epbimages/face.htm > > Charlie Ford > cjford1@yahoo.com > cjford1@swbell.net > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 05:04:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA01507; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 05:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 05:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001601c0159e$32dc7a60$2d3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990204071629.00c12a20@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <39B1D7C1.20FE9C1D@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 07:57:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"fOq35.0.NN.IuZiv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16615 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Gentlemen; Allow me to make another stab at stirring up some experimental work here, aside from the grav-cap. Recently, I stumbled across an obscure document on the T. Townsend Brown website that deals with an entirely novel and admittedly strange antigravity approach. What knocked me for a loop was that I had NEVER heard of this one before amongst the anti-grav / FE / Tesla tech crowd. But nevertheless, I believe it could be a historical nugget that could be big in opening up antigravity! Apparently, in 1973 or so, Brown attempted to apply for a patent on a discovery he had made with certain refractory and rare earth materials. In essence, he had discovered that some materials, in a granular or nano-particle form, will lose some of their gravitational mass when excited by vibration and interparticle friction. They become temporarily lighter, this change in weight going away with a period of about 30 minutes or so. The document is called "Method for Producing Gravitationally Anomalous Materials" and it may be viewed as a .pdf document at: http://www.soteria.com/brown/info/patents/gravity.pdf One wonders why this patent was never awarded. Perhaps there was not sufficient theoretical basis for it. Brown admits in his disclosure that he has absolutely no idea why it would work. Perhaps it dragged out long enough that Brown had passed away before any patent process could be completed. I dont know. In truth, I did get a chuckle over the ironic fact that the document had the unfortunate luck to be signed and witnessed on April 1st. However, I feel it was not any sort of joke for two reasons. 1 - Brown didn't go in for that sort of crap. 2. - See below. I've been trying it. It seems to work. Yes, I have been playing with this, and I am excited to say that I believe it may very well work! Last week, I tried some simple tests at the lab. I used a 10 ml pyrex test tube with a rubber stopper, and tried filling it with different powders and grains. These were then weighed on an analytical balance with a 1 mg resolution. Following this, I put the test tube in a holder that immersed it in an ultrasonic cleaner, for 1/2 hour period of acoustic agitation. Immediately upon removal, I would wipe the test tube dry, and re-weigh it. With several of the materials, I did indeed see Brown's effect!! The weight loss was not much - on the order of milligrams for initial weights of between 10 and 30 grams. However, it reversed itself and came back to the original weight within 15 minutes. I even ran a control test with no acoustic energy, just a hot water bath to warm the material, as I was afraid that it may have been a thermal artifact (the ultrasonic energy heats the water and sample). But no effect. It really seems genuine. Best results I have had so far were with Al2O3 50 micron beads (blasting media). For a starting weight of about 21 grams, it lost 5 milligrams, then gained it back within 15 minutes after post treatment re-weigh. Alumina (Al2O3) or boehmite (the hydroxide) were two of the materials Brown mentioned as having good properties for this effect. I am diving into this one. If this effect is real, then perhaps it relates to some of the truly wild mysteries such as Tibetan stone block levitation by music (acoustics) or even Coral Castle. Anybody care to give it a try? The materials needed are easy to come by. The priciest item would probably be time on a milligram balance. Good luck! NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 06:14:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA31057; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 06:14:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 06:14:11 -0700 Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 09:14:04 -0400 Message-Id: <200009031314.JAA03591@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Resent-Message-ID: <"7VAhj2.0.8b7.Xwaiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16616 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nick writes: > I am diving into this one. If this effect is real, then perhaps it >relates to some of the truly wild mysteries such as Tibetan stone block >levitation by music (acoustics) or even Coral Castle. Anybody care to give >it a try? The materials needed are easy to come by. The priciest item >would probably be time on a milligram balance. > > Good luck! > > NR Hi Nick, I don't have the URL handy anymore, but I do recall that a pair of Aussie scientists took analysed some samples of the Cheops, and found Alumina in that, amoung other things. They basically were claiming that the blocks were not quarried rocks, but something that they termed "geopolymers", or a sort of concrete with special properties. They said that based on what they found that the blocks were probably poured instead of lifted up into place. Don't know if it is related, but it is interesting. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 06:27:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA04325; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 06:26:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 06:26:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000701c015a9$d15a8280$353dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <200009031314.JAA03591@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 09:21:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"lyz6S2.0.U31.B6biv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16617 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thanks, Michael; I also had heard of that theory. It is interesting to note the list of materials that Brown said he saw the effect in. Alumino-silicate complexes, such as kaolin, boehmite, loess, ground porcelain, monazite sand. One of the oddball ones was tantalum powder (?!?) For the most part though, it seems like the susceptible materials would be natural clays and mineral components of cement. Maybe the Egyptians played loud drum and trumpet notes as they mixed up their pyramid blocks, thus agitating the aggregate and invoking a weight loss. Weirder theories abound. NR > > Hi Nick, > > I don't have the URL handy anymore, but I do recall that a pair of Aussie > scientists took analysed some samples of the Cheops, and found Alumina in > that, amoung other things. They basically were claiming that the blocks > were not quarried rocks, but something that they termed "geopolymers", or a > sort of concrete with special properties. They said that based on what they > found that the blocks were probably poured instead of lifted up into place. > Don't know if it is related, but it is interesting. > > Knuke > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > The Villages, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke@LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 06:52:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA05993; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 06:51:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 06:51:41 -0700 Message-ID: <39B25622.12D9D761@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 08:46:10 -0500 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials References: <4.2.0.58.19990204071629.00c12a20@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <39B1D7C1.20FE9C1D@csrlink.net> <001601c0159e$32dc7a60$2d3dee3f@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HcAq42.0.ST1.jTbiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16618 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Yes, I have been playing with this, and I am excited to say that I > believe it may very well work! Last week, I tried some simple tests at the > lab. I used a 10 ml pyrex test tube with a rubber stopper, and tried > filling it with different powders and grains. These were then weighed on an > analytical balance with a 1 mg resolution. Following this, I put the test > tube in a holder that immersed it in an ultrasonic cleaner, for 1/2 hour > period of acoustic agitation. Immediately upon removal, I would wipe the > test tube dry, and re-weigh it. Is it possible that what is happening is that the material creates a fine dust which is then suspended in the air (if any) inside the test tube, and as it then resettles out of the air, the tube weight returns to normal? --Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 08:27:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA08934; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 08:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 08:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000701c015ba$9d13e140$0a3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990204071629.00c12a20@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <39B1D7C1.20FE9C1D@csrlink.net> <001601c0159e$32dc7a60$2d3dee3f@default> <39B25622.12D9D761@sunherald.infi.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 11:21:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"n_iGG1.0.VB2.vsciv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16619 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Kyle; Might be possible. I had the test tube filled up to within about 1/4 of the stopper, so there shouldn't have been that much room for dust. Also, the relatively large grained Al2O3 (50 micron) gave better results than some of the finer grained materials (silica powder, 20 micron SiC, V2O5 precipitate powder) So I'm not sure. However, it does bring up that irritating old physics paradox: If one has a air tight sealed system, like a corked bottle, on a balance, and inside of the bottle is a flying bug or airborne particle, does the system weigh more when the bug or particle is at rest on the inside wall than it does when it is moving through the air inside. I have been told that the correct answer is that the weight of the system does not change, due to the fact that one is weighing all the constituents including the air inside of the bottle along with the bug. Anyone ever test this though? NR > Is it possible that what is happening is that the material creates a > fine dust which is then suspended in the air (if any) inside the test > tube, and as it then resettles out of the air, the tube weight returns > to normal? > > --Kyle R. Mcallister > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 09:13:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA02251; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 09:12:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 09:12:57 -0700 Message-ID: <20000903161222.29320.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 09:12:22 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: NE Ohio Teslathon/ 3 phase demonstration. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"Y1O0C3.0.4Z.8Ydiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16620 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- Dave Dameron wrote: > Hi Harvey, > At 12:25 PM 09/02/00 -0700, you wrote: > > >> Could you please explain your configuration more? > Is > >> the alternator output > >> 3 isolated phases or 3 connected in a "delta" > >> connection (see marked > >> words)? > >Yes, the phases are isolated. > > Is there the 12 Ohm load (3 of them) on each winding > (L + C) to have the > series resonance currents of 2A? Yes, approximated by the 25 volt input. The inductor consists of a series of 500 ft 14 gauge coils. I have seies resonated a group of 30 containing 40 ohms before at 60 hz, and the amperage went to the predicted level. This does not occur on the massive 56 Henry coils of 23 gauge wire, probably because they have a large distributed internal capacitance that seemingly cannot be negotiated away by the cancelling reactances in series method. > > Where are the series resonances - is each > >> "delta" leg composed of a > >> alternator winding with 0.15H inductance and a > >> corresponding capacitor to > >> resonate at 360Hz? > >Yes, but as I have mentioned it is isolated phasing > >used in the onset, not the delta. I am confused as > to > >the relationship between what the islotated phases > >will do in comparison to an actual delta > >configuration, which I may have initially > erroneously > >assumed to be identical. > >> >> The first question is what will happen when > the > >> WYE > >> >> is > >> >> placed as a short on the isolated 3 phases > each > >> >> powering a series resonance? > >> Is the WYE another circuit or a common short so > that > >> each L-C midpoint are > >> all connected together? > >A common short. > > Then there should be no effect, as the voltage > between each of the 3 > isolated circuits is undefined, except by the > common connection, only the > relative phases are determined in the isolated case. I will make a post to list when these amperage measurements are made. I tend to disagree that nothing will happen for the following reason. You indicate the voltage between each of the 3 isolated cicuits is undefined. It is defined as a series resonance where the midpoint of the series resonances (on each of three phases)has a voltage rise of the q of the coil system (which is 28*25=700 volts) Now this internal voltage buildup at the midpoint of the LC circuit I have refered as an unobvious potential,for the reasons that placing a resistive load across that voltage rise short circuits the voltage rise or resonance, and also the fact that there are essentially two voltage rises in opposition to one another in series resonance. Now the voltage rise on either L or C side can be measured internally. It can be referenced from the midpoint to the outside of the circuit by meter to show the resonant rise of voltage value predicted by the q. However again a load placed in reference(parallel to either L or C) to the solitary resonance causes an exterior current path outside the resonance, thus denigrating it to a lower value of resonance in the process. Now cheifly this problematic issue of the seeming impossibility of of placing a load WITHIN the resonant circuit led to my explanation of a Binary Resonant System.(BRS) Simply Stated; RATHER REFERENCING A LOAD FROM THE MIDPOINT OF THE SERIES RESONANT CIRCUIT TO THE OUTSIDE OF THE CIRCUIT,(that serves to degrade the resonance), IT CAN BE REFERENCED BETWEEN TWO SERIES RESONANT MIDPOINTS WHERE THOSE RESONANCES ARE 180 OUT OF PHASE. This keeps the load within the resonant circuit and provides futuristic methods of ballasting by resonance instead of ferromagnetic transformation of voltages. Likewise if an electrolysisor consists of this load, the amperage rise it experiences with regard to its amperage input is determined to be q times the amperage input now experienced as the resonant rise of Amperage, found in Parallel Resonance. Not to preach here and must get back on topic but the missing parameter that some may not see or understand, is what I consider a monumental fact that no one seems to grasp and is of particular relevance here: CONNECTING THE MIDPOINTS OF 2 180 PHASED SERIES RESONANCES YEILDS A SINGLE PARALLEL RESONANCE TWISTED INTO A FIGURE 8, WITH THE CENTER PATH SHARED IN UNITY BY 180 PHASED DOUBLE NEGATIVE. This simply an inverse adaptation the polyphase idea or WYE 3 phase conception where a single return wire is used for all the phases. In ninety degree 2 phase conception if each return wire is joined to a common single line, if the isolated phases each consumed 1 amp, the common return line only recieves the vector addition (wrong word?) of those phases. Thus instead of 2 amps on the return line, there is the addition of each phases greatest amperage in concurrent time to deliver (.707*2)= 1.4 Amps. Thus in that case the return wire is being shared by two current paths, 90 degrees out of phase in time with the net result that during time periods where the currents are in opposition; this results in a net smaller current flow on that return wire. Likewise the great advantage in 3 phase is that this can be entirely cancelled on return wire current. So it should be seen by analogy that the BRS midpoint path consists also of a "return wire, or shared path", but in unity and not cancellation. Thus the inductive and capacitive currents in a parallel resonance, themselves 180 out of phase, sharing a common path in opposite ends of introduction, or current paths in the figure 8 , then produces unity or twice the current on the central branch than on either side alone. Likewise creating an opening or air gap on this midpoint path will then cause twice the series resonant rise of voltage to be referenced at the gap then would a single resonance give, where that gap would then be outside the circuit. INCREDIBLY, THE GAP INSIDE THE RESONANT TANK CIRCUIT, was initially rejected By N Tesla in CSN for the reason that the oscillations were quickly damped. At Colorado Springs, and most all coilers thereafter use the method he then made of putting the arc gap in parallel, or short to the input power supply, or OUTSIDE THE RESONANT CIRCUIT. This leads one to the dubious distinction made in analogy with high induction coil HF experimentation, where it is shown that the arc outside the Series Resonant LC circuit produces exactly what tesla dismissed as a damped oscillation. But yet in that experimentation it has been shown that a BRS single arc gap provides a wonderfully free vibration that in turn has led to unheard of BPS rates with double gap modifications made to intervening loads. This knowledge applied to tesla coils may have severe drawbacks as others see it, because in that situation the coil to be resonated by arc gap technique always consists of a high voltage application applied to an extremely low resistance tesla primary neccesitating a tank circuit approach. Thus the options of producing no important high freq tesla arcs in high induction coils can in fact be more informative than formerly thought by applications of series resonant/ allel The high induction coils have such an extremely long wire length of 18 miles in tank configuration that the frequency emitor appears to broadcast no frequency, only causing each receptor to recieve its own resonant frequency by geometry. Having drifted off topic again... the arc then becomes important when we apply the above ideas to three phase. Instead of a WYE short across these triangular series resonances, that could be made with neon bulbs as a demonstration, as only 300 volts enables conduction on the 12 inch bulbs I have used, but at 360 hz the rise time might present a problem. Nevertheless a single moment in time where one phase is at zero current can be analysed. That S.R. mid point unobvious potential of that phase is also zero. But the midpoints of the other two phases are then correspondingly 120 and 240 degrees out of phase with the zero, also meaning that in delta understanding that consists of a BRS interaction between those phases, since again this involves one phase producing a positive unobvious midpoint potential concurrently referenced to the opposite negative unobvious potential of that remaining phase where there all 3 phased sums add to zero in 3 phase delta laws. Thus using bulbs the interior midpoint pathways must rotate with the phasing frequency, showing how those potentials are then referenced towards each other. Likewise to create an arc gap between these rotating midpoints could involve low resistance tesla coil primaries, made with the LC values additionally placed in the WYE, where C also serves as the Air Capacity allowing a short, to a triangular shaped piece,each facing a common side as a one plate capacity trifoldly connected to equal area plates in space meant to serv as the 3 needed air capacity values, in turn then inductively coupled to secondaries to produce a rotating or toroidal discharge on its end of things. To conclude this thinking it seems to open a new avenue of possibilities where teslas initial idea of a rotating magnetic field in space could also be accomplished as a rotating high frequency field in space. > >> Not leg to leg as that is the same as an isolated > >> phase as you point out. > >Thats what I thought also. Therefore if I am > getting > >25 volts on each leg or isolated phase, connecting > the > >3 corners to delta should not change the voltage, > if > >I understand what you are saying. > > I agree. A way to get the neutral, not present with > the "delta" connection, > would be to connect another "wye" transformer across > the 3 wires and get > the neutral from that. Yes thanks very much for mentioning this: as the description of delta found in Herbert W Jackson's text, "Introduction to Electric Circuits" which I found very useful in atempting to fathom 3 phase, sort of leaves one up in the air concerning the matter. I is mentioned that balanced loads on either wye or delta need no return wire, which leads one wondering well what would happen if a delta had unbalanced loads, but your prescription seems to be the answer. >From what I reckon now 4 possibilities exist because each of the loads themselves can be arranged either delta or wye. Thus we can have a delta to delta connected load (no return wire, only for balanced loads); delta to wye connected load (as you suggest); wye to wye connected load (4 wire with common neutral); and wye to delta connected load. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 09:22:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA05018; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 09:21:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 09:21:31 -0700 Message-ID: <39B27C19.7B81AE1F@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 12:28:09 -0400 From: Mike Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VXOkX3.0.4E1.Bgdiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16621 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Mind it Hi, This is sort of off topic but I found a neat thingie to use on your website. If you own a site and you update and add to it frequently some of your visitors might want to get automatic notices when this happens. There is a FREE service called Mind It which will do this for people. They just plug in the url of the page they want to be notified of updates on and when you update it automatically sends them an e mail note. I am going to put it on my site. It is free and you don't get anything for using it either so this isn't a "money" message. It is just something I thought some members might be able to find useful. MJ http://mindit.netmind.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 10:23:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA27031; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 10:22:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 10:22:58 -0700 Message-ID: <20000903172221.15435.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 10:22:21 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"XyGUz1.0.8c6.oZeiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16622 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Motional Electric field Generator In conjunction to previous post I waded through half of Hoopers dissertation concerning circularly polarised electric fields, (as also described by Hooper, and Gibson). This was also recently mentioned on list with respect to left or right wound aerial coils, where they have to match for signal to be received. Circularly polarised electric fields are said by Hooper to pass through any shield, being quite difficult to stop; as is also said about the Meyl Faraday shield/Alu case. Prof Meyl's circuit sounds like it has RF ground currents, rather than primarily producing cp-fields. It may be useful to consider Hooper type cp-fields in the broader discussion of proposed L.W.'s/"scalars" and particularly with respect to their shielding; in addition to documented RF ground currents. http://geocities.com/Area51/9357/hooper01.html Basically The case is made for the electric field produced by a moving armature piece in space to be substantially different from a static electric field, and the contradictions of Faraday Induction Law made by some examples. Very Scientific document from 70 Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 14:03:40 -0400 From: Mike Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BFbye3.0.Hu1.m3fiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16623 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: H2 Overunity Formula Hi All, Remember my H2 ou formula? Well, I'm finally updating my website and I have that up now if anyone wants to refer to it for anything. I used the "Mind It" service on that page as well. It isn't really complete yet because, as I posted it, I see some gaping holes I forgot to fill. But I will be adding to that as well. I am also going to be putting up a "links" page to other people's free energy sites so if you have such a site and would like it included just email me the url. MJ url: http://members.xoom.com/enki_12/epbimages/h2ouformula.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 11:35:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA18452; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 11:34:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 11:34:26 -0700 From: "David Rosignoli" Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Reply-to: drdaveor@enter.net To: "Nick Reiter" , X-CC-Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 14:34:22 +400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.1t, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <39b299ae.127e.0@enter.net> X-User-Info: 209.122.237.183 Resent-Message-ID: <"4n_RB2.0.9W4.ocfiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16624 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Where did you get your samples of powders/grains? I think I know someone who could repeat the experiment, but obtaining the materials is the only impediment. Thanks. > Allow me to make another stab at stirring up some experimental work here, >aside from the grav-cap. > Recently, I stumbled across an obscure document on the T. Townsend Brown >website that deals with an entirely novel and admittedly strange antigravity >approach. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 11:45:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA22064; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 11:44:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 11:44:53 -0700 From: "David Rosignoli" Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Reply-to: drdaveor@enter.net To: X-CC-Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 14:44:50 +400 X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.1t, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <39b29c22.1d8e.0@enter.net> X-User-Info: 209.122.237.183 Resent-Message-ID: <"f5mqV3.0.bO5.bmfiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16625 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Dar Labs and Biefeld-Brown Effect Demo. at Antigrav Conference Please check out the link http://www.darlabs.com/ for the Biefeld-Brown (BB) Effect demo (electrokinetic apparatus) presented at the 2nd Antigravity Conference in Reno, NV. Included is a bunch of photos. Also there is a paper on a summary of all the experiments that have been performed to date (up to June 2000) regarding the BB effect. A short report on INE's mysterious magnetic spinner is also presented. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 12:39:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA06941; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 12:38:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 12:38:23 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <42.a4168d5.26e40217@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 15:35:51 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Resent-Message-ID: <"HAbc8.0.Ki1.lYgiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16626 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 9/3/00 6:52:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, stk@sunherald.infi.net writes: > > Is it possible that what is happening is that the material creates a > fine dust which is then suspended in the air (if any) inside the test > tube, and as it then resettles out of the air, the tube weight returns > to normal? > > --Kyle R. Mcallister A comment and a question: I think the test tube and material inside it should weigh the same whether or not some of it is suspended as dust inside the tube, at least according to conventional theory. Also, where might be a good place to obtain a small amount of Al2O3 50 micron beads? I have a good balance and can see if I obtain similar results. It seems to be a fairly simple experiment. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 12:51:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA11062; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 12:50:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 12:50:49 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 19:50:02 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [FG]: New face on mars!!! X-Sender-Ip: 213.40.25.32 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_Ai1G1.0.gi2.Nkgiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16627 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com hehheh This is a really cheesy fake. Bet if we looked through a personnel list at JPL, this guy would be in there somewhere....... James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 14:03:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA30869; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 14:03:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 14:03:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000903140136.302fa930@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 14:01:36 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: NE Ohio Teslathon/ 3 phase demonstration. In-Reply-To: <20000903161222.29320.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1s_yw3.0.CY7.Mohiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16628 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Harvey, At 09:12 AM 09/03/00 -0700, you wrote: >> Then there should be no effect, as the voltage >> between each of the 3 >> isolated circuits is undefined, except by the >> common connection, only the >> relative phases are determined in the isolated case. >I will make a post to list when these amperage >measurements are made. I tend to disagree that nothing >will happen for the following reason. You indicate the >voltage between each of the 3 isolated cicuits is >undefined. It is defined as a series resonance where >the midpoint of the series resonances (on each of >three phases)has a voltage rise of the q of the coil >system (which is 28*25=700 volts) Yes, the voltage within each circuit is determined by its components, resonance, etc. I meant the voltage between one circuit and either of the other 2. Without any common connection the voltage between them is undetermined. Once they ate all connected, the voltage between one and another is determined. Two separate interconnections are required for any current to flow between them. > Binary >Resonant System.(BRS) Simply Stated; RATHER >REFERENCING A LOAD FROM THE MIDPOINT OF THE SERIES >RESONANT CIRCUIT TO THE OUTSIDE OF THE CIRCUIT,(that >serves to degrade the resonance), IT CAN BE REFERENCED >BETWEEN TWO SERIES RESONANT MIDPOINTS WHERE THOSE >RESONANCES ARE 180 OUT OF PHASE. In your single plase circuits, the 2 series circuits are already connected at their endpoints, so the voltage between the midpoints is already defined, such as V(inductor 1) -V(capacitor 2). -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 14:35:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05950; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 14:34:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 14:34:42 -0700 Message-ID: <39B2C2A2.DE0CFBBF@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 16:29:06 -0500 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials References: <42.a4168d5.26e40217@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-Apdo2.0.tS1.nFiiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16629 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > A comment and a question: I think the test tube and material inside it > should weigh the same whether or not some of it is suspended as dust inside > the tube, at least according to conventional theory. Maybe so, I'm just trying to suggest possible artifacts that might be present. I hope this is real...although I have no idea how it could work. --Kyle From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 17:52:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA27158; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 17:51:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 17:51:40 -0700 Message-ID: <39B2F3AF.F579C30@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 20:58:23 -0400 From: Mike Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"g-qax3.0.Ae6.R8liv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16630 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Links to H2 societies Hi All, I have built my "Links to Societies Devoted to Hydrogen" page url: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/SOCIETIES.html Hopefully there are some useful links there for everyone. MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 18:09:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA01500; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 18:07:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 18:07:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001f01c0160b$c5b070e0$073dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <42.a4168d5.26e40217@aol.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 21:02:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"CXHfw1.0.LN.gNliv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16631 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ken; See below; > A comment and a question: I think the test tube and material inside it > should weigh the same whether or not some of it is suspended as dust inside > the tube, at least according to conventional theory. Also, where might be a > good place to obtain a small amount of Al2O3 50 micron beads? I have a good > balance and can see if I obtain similar results. It seems to be a fairly > simple experiment. > Ken ********** The alumina bead I used was blasting media from a micro-blaster / parts cleaner unit. If you could find a machine shop that performed precision cleaning or metal stripping, you could probably find some. For my sake, it was just some that had been laying around the lab for years. A chemical supply company such as Alfa Aesar or Aldritch would carry it as well. I am also thinking of McMaster Carr, MSC, or WW Grainger; as they are pretty much universal industrial supply companies. McMaster Carr is on-line. I would suggest also kaolin, or ground up porcelain. One of the other materials I tried was powdered refractory cement, similar to Portland cement. This gave about a 2 mg weight loss with 1/2 hour of sonic nuking. NR > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 18:15:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA01971; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 18:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 18:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002501c0160c$c1834c80$073dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <42.a4168d5.26e40217@aol.com> <39B2C2A2.DE0CFBBF@sunherald.infi.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 21:09:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"JjBkc3.0.eU.JUliv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16632 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2000 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials > > A comment and a question: I think the test tube and material inside it > > should weigh the same whether or not some of it is suspended as dust inside > > the tube, at least according to conventional theory. > > Maybe so, I'm just trying to suggest possible artifacts that might be > present. I hope this is real...although I have no idea how it could > work. > > --Kyle ***** I always appreciate input for seeking out artifacts. I have run into some wild ones. If there is anything to this effect, I wonder if it may arise from some form of Casimir effect from the vibratory action of material / space interfaces. Why it would linger after the acoustic or frictional action stopped; I dunno. My chum Dr. Faile suggested that there was some sort of particle called an "anyon" (spelling?) associated with energy exchanges out at the conduction band, and that this could be involved. Brown apparently felt that the effect was not nuclear. NR > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 20:38:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14747; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 20:37:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 20:37:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 20:37:26 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials In-Reply-To: <000701c015ba$9d13e140$0a3dee3f@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"v1S8m3.0.Kc3.uZniv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16633 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 3 Sep 2000, Nick Reiter wrote: > If one has a air tight sealed system, like a corked bottle, on a balance, > and inside of the bottle is a flying bug or airborne particle, does the > system weigh more when the bug or particle is at rest on the inside wall > than it does when it is moving through the air inside. > I have been told that the correct answer is that the weight of the system > does not change, due to the fact that one is weighing all the constituents > including the air inside of the bottle along with the bug. > Anyone ever test this though? Newton's laws say that a non-accelerating flying object must either directly or indirectly push on the floor, or instead fling hunks of something downwards (as when a rocket hovers.) Anything else would be (gasp!) antigravity. Particles falling with constant velocity are dragging air downwards which pushes on the floor, at least in theory. A possible artifact: the test tube gets charged by powder impact, then attracts towards some metal part of the balance above itself. Since the powder is near the glass and has a net charge oppostie the glass, there really shouldn't be much of an e-field outside of the glass, but maybe it's enough to create the effect. Over time the charges would leak together again. Try wrapping the tube in thin foil and see if the effect vanishes. Or try baking the tube and the powder to remove all moisture, and see if the effect lasts for lots longer. If electrogravity is the cause, maybe a mixture of two DIFFERENT powders would give a larger effect. Vibrated powders create opposite net charges on the particles of different composition. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 20:54:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA20702; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 20:54:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 20:54:20 -0700 Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 23:54:13 -0400 Message-Id: <200009040354.XAA11091@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Resent-Message-ID: <"b4mHx1.0.J35.ipniv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16634 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill Beaty writes: >Try wrapping the tube in thin foil and see if the effect vanishes. Or try >baking the tube and the powder to remove all moisture, and see if the >effect lasts for lots longer. Those are good ideas for artifacts. The amount of moisture originally on each grain may be boiling off when sonicated. The balance would lift by a couple of mg, you turn off the sonic stimulation and after a time, the moisture would return, kind of in the same way that air goes back into water after it has been de-aerated. If you baked the tube and powder, and weighed it, and waited until it cooled, and weighed it again to see a gain, that should show the same effect as the sonication if this idea is correct. Just moisture being removed, and then coming back. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 21:21:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA27598; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 21:20:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 21:20:21 -0700 Message-ID: <39B324AE.87D7F536@csrlink.net> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 00:27:26 -0400 From: Mike Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: energy21 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VSKI63.0._k6.5Coiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16635 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: How about an H2 pill? Hi all, How about a hydrogen pill? Here's the url of the guy who makes them: http://www.powerball.net/inside/index.shtml MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 22:58:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA18055; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 22:57:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 22:57:53 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 05:57:41 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <39bc39a9.425652654@mail.midiowa.net> References: <4.2.0.58.19990204071629.00c12a20@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <39B1D7C1.20FE9C1D@csrlink.net> <001601c0159e$32dc7a60$2d3dee3f@default> <39B25622.12D9D761@sunherald.infi.net> In-Reply-To: <39B25622.12D9D761@sunherald.infi.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA18030 Resent-Message-ID: <"zRBNW2.0._P4.Vdpiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16636 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 03 Sep 2000 08:46:10 -0500, "Kyle R. Mcallister" wrote: >Is it possible that what is happening is that the material creates a >fine dust which is then suspended in the air (if any) inside the test >tube, and as it then resettles out of the air, the tube weight returns >to normal? Umm, as far as I know, you're weighing the air inside the closed container, too. (So anything suspended in the air is also weighed.) -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 23:24:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA15002; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 23:23:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 23:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39B33FBA.6AC04E8B@csrlink.net> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 02:22:50 -0400 From: Mike Johnston X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HTqMN.0.Cg3.8_piv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16637 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Multi Cell theory Update Hi All, I have added my latest version of the overunity by the use of multiple cells in series for electrolysis to my website. Go to the url for the "my ideas" page and click the "Multi Cell Update" link if you want to read it. http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/myideas.html MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 3 23:55:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA28940; Sun, 3 Sep 2000 23:55:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 23:55:01 -0700 Message-ID: <20000904065425.21252.qmail@web4404.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 23:54:25 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"OXMma2.0.y37.5Tqiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16638 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Ring of Fire/ 3 phase tesla primary Schematic Okay heres a drawing try; hope the ascii doesnt scramble the picture. ---------------------------0--------------------------- L C ------------*------------ 1 C 1 L 1 1 1 0------------------L-------1---------C---------------0 This shows 3 ordered LC quantities in delta (the sides of the triangle are not drawn)in series resonance, by what that LC quantity gives as its resonant frequency. For the speculated ring of fire proposal these become 3 primaries where the L C values are determined to resonate with secondary.(not shown) 3 NST's arranged in delta should be able to supply the high voltage for the primaries. Inside the circuit shows the shorts made connecting each series resonance with the * as the arc gap. This is only a preliminary method concieved on the triple gap method. It may be advantageous to make a triple triangular plate area as a center piece where each series resonant midpoint arcs to,in which further L and C quantities tuned to resonate are inserted into the WYE. In that method a further voltage magnification beyond what the ordered delta series resonances provides is made, allowing the system to oscillate in high frequency arcing with a lower voltage input than formerly possible. In that scenario the area between the plates consists of an actual air capacity C value, where the arc will occur across, which is matched with a larger L value to compensate to resonate also to the same desired freq. The same resonant frequency can have many LC combinations, thus here we are allowing another LC quantity to be introduced in the WYE, which magnifies the voltage available for arcing prurposes in the primary system. This second adaptation and the secondaries to the system are not drawn. To understand the interior current paths we can first analyse it when the bottom delta series resonance is zero current. This also makes its midpoint path zero current, so at the triple arc gap only the other two phases have interphasal arcing. These phases at that moment in time have a positive 120 degree voltage, and a negative 240 degree voltage. When this is analysed in context with delta phasing, we see that the current in each series resonant circuit is in opposite directions, providing opposite resonant rises of voltage enabling this arcing to occur at their relative midpoints on the triple arc gap. Thus transposed schematically the remaining phases when one phase is zero represents a BRS with respect to their relative 180 phasing of currents, thus making the triple arc gap method analogous to a rotating BRS, by virtue of phasing rotation. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 4 04:08:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA26599; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 04:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 04:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002d01c0165f$a0d08c20$303dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <200009040354.XAA11091@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 07:02:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"rIrDn3.0.WV6.YAuiv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16639 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thanks! See below; > Bill Beaty writes: > >Try wrapping the tube in thin foil and see if the effect vanishes. Or try > >baking the tube and the powder to remove all moisture, and see if the > >effect lasts for lots longer. ********* I did try that with the alumina, since I ran that one several times. I tried baking the test tube and alumina at 200C for 30 min. before corking and weighing. Now therein perhaps is a rub - the rubber stopper, which I did not bake at 200C but put under a heat lamp for a while. But at any rate, the effect seemed to be and act the same. I will try the foil wrap trick, though. The pan of the analytical balance is grounded stainless. > Those are good ideas for artifacts. The amount of moisture originally on > each grain may be boiling off when sonicated. The balance would lift by a > couple of mg, you turn off the sonic stimulation and after a time, the > moisture would return, kind of in the same way that air goes back into water > after it has been de-aerated. If you baked the tube and powder, and weighed > it, and waited until it cooled, and weighed it again to see a gain, that > should show the same effect as the sonication if this idea is correct. Just > moisture being removed, and then coming back. ******** Reasonable idea. My counter-offer is that the integrity of the rubber stopper seal seems to be fine (diffusion proof). I note that TT Brown specifically mentions using a hermetically sealed vessel. Now interestingly enough, he also mentioned the need for making the vessel out of an insulating material (glass or ceramic)! ( see Bill's comment above) Well, at any rate, I'll try to work with it more over lunch hours, etc. this week. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 4 06:39:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA03461; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 06:38:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 06:38:10 -0700 Message-ID: <008901c01674$dbc1c320$0dff08d0@default> From: "Larry Canada" To: "freenrg-l" Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 07:33:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0086_01C01642.6DC42E80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"NfxaP2.0.wr.1Nwiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16640 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: RE:[FG]:Tribo-gravitic material This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C01642.6DC42E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With interest I have read the postings for some months now but have been = somewhat reluctant to render comments. Is it possible that the particles when agitated, loose or fail to = maintain domain alignment? The percentage of particles loosing domain = alignment would reach a constant dependent upon the frequency of the = agitation. When the agitation stops, the non-aligned particles are = brought into alignment by the dominant field. Just a what-if. Of = course this scenario requires a link between gravity and magnetism. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C01642.6DC42E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
With interest I have read the postings for some = months now but=20 have been somewhat reluctant to render comments.
 
Is it possible that the particles when=20 agitated, loose or fail to maintain domain = alignment?  The=20 percentage of particles loosing domain alignment would reach a constant=20 dependent upon the frequency of the agitation.  When the agitation = stops,=20 the non-aligned particles are brought into alignment by the dominant=20 field.  Just a what-if.  Of course this scenario = requires a=20 link between gravity and magnetism. 
------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C01642.6DC42E80-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 4 07:41:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA22038; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 07:41:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 07:41:27 -0700 Sender: jack@mail3.centurytel.net Message-ID: <39B3B498.1A72EB64@centurytel.net> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 14:41:28 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: tomcar@apk.net Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials References: <4.2.0.58.19990204071629.00c12a20@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <39B1D7C1.20FE9C1D@csrlink.net> <001601c0159e$32dc7a60$2d3dee3f@default> <39B25622.12D9D761@sunherald.infi.net> <000701c015ba$9d13e140$0a3dee3f@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="xair" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="xair" Resent-Message-ID: <"bJwoz2.0.FO5.NIxiv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16641 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nick wrote: ... weight of the system does not change, due to the fact that one is weighing all the constituents including the air inside of the bottle along with the bug. Anyone ever test this though? Hi Nick, This was one of the most intractable misconceptions which hindered the thinking of my students (10 - 12 in Chemistry and Physics). Somehow most of them thought (that's probably the wrong word) that air has negative mass. So, despite all the cute experiments and demos they had been exposed to over the years about photosynthesis, they were usually at a loss when asked "Where does the mass of dry wood come from?" The only effective way I found to dispel this misconception was to have each student "weigh" (find the mass of) an empty balloon, then blow it up and weigh it again. For me, running into this misconception again and again, gave new meaning to the theory that matter consists of earth, air, fire, and water. Jack Smith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 4 19:49:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA15840; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 19:47:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 19:47:58 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [205.188.200.42] From: "Randy Hargraves" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 02:47:55 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Sep 2000 02:47:56.0092 (UTC) FILETIME=[B1B0DFC0:01C016E3] Resent-Message-ID: <"T4bBS3.0.Gt3.Ux5jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16642 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Smot - Greg Watson - Delivery - ??? Hi List & Stefan I ordered a Smot from Gregg I be lieve that he was at one time going to send out the smot or the money. I have been waiting for the smot. has any one got there's??? or requested the money??? or does any one know the status of the projcet????? Randy Hargraves Yukon, Oklahoma, USA _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 4 19:58:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20001; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 19:57:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 19:57:29 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [205.188.200.42] From: "Randy Hargraves" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 02:57:27 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Sep 2000 02:57:27.0607 (UTC) FILETIME=[06572470:01C016E5] Resent-Message-ID: <"mhU492.0.Ku4.P46jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16643 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Back Pain, Sleep Disorder, NONI- Relief hi list for Back Pain and Sleeping disorders, Noni has seemed to be a real relief for many. Make sure that it is Tahitian Noni (tm) & made by Morinda. If you can't find it let me know. As I can get it or help you find it. Randy Hargraves Yukon Okla. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 4 22:04:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA27314; Mon, 4 Sep 2000 22:03:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 22:03:44 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.38] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: How about an H2 pill? Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 22:03:41 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Sep 2000 05:03:41.0550 (UTC) FILETIME=[A8C320E0:01C016F6] Resent-Message-ID: <"GFl923.0.cg6.mw7jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16644 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: Mike Johnston >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: energy21 >Subject: [FG]: How about an H2 pill? >Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 00:27:26 -0400 > > >Hi all, >How about a hydrogen pill? Here's the url of the guy who makes them: >http://www.powerball.net/inside/index.shtml >MJ > I've seen this before... it has been out there for a few years now... This sounds like a really neat idea... In till I think about it... What happens to the sludge of "water proof encasement" and resultant left in the reactor tank??? I don't know my chemistry... So could someone please tell me what would be the left over after this type of reaction was done??? Acid??? Alkaloid??? Toxic??? So+H2O=H2 and ??????? And please put it in terms I (the non chemist) can relate to... Please... Thank you, Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 04:31:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA09637; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 04:30:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 04:30:56 -0700 Sender: jack@mail3.centurytel.net Message-ID: <39B4D96C.7D0EE9C5@centurytel.net> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 11:30:52 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials References: <4.2.0.58.19990204071629.00c12a20@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <39B1D7C1.20FE9C1D@csrlink.net> <001601c0159e$32dc7a60$2d3dee3f@default> <39B25622.12D9D761@sunherald.infi.net> <000701c015ba$9d13e140$0a3dee3f@default> <39B3B498.1A72EB64@centurytel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="x" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="x" Resent-Message-ID: <"Ljpox2.0.UM2.lbDjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16645 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nick wrote: ... weight of the system does not change, due to the fact that one is weighing all the constituents including the air inside of the bottle along with the bug. Anyone ever test this though? Hi Nick, This was one of the most intractable misconceptions which hindered the thinking of my students (10 - 12 in Chemistry and Physics). Somehow most of them thought (that's probably the wrong word) that air has negative mass. So, despite all the cute experiments and demos they had been exposed to over the years about photosynthesis, they were usually at a loss when asked "Where does the mass of dry wood come from?" The only effective way I found to dispel this misconception was to have each student "weigh" (find the mass of) an empty balloon, then blow it up and weigh it again. For me, running into this misconception again and again, gave new meaning to the theory that matter consists of earth, air, fire, and water. Jack Smith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 05:41:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA22732; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 05:40:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 05:40:36 -0700 Message-ID: <002801c01737$58ba0500$8002a8c0@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990204071629.00c12a20@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <39B1D7C1.20FE9C1D@csrlink.net> <001601c0159e$32dc7a60$2d3dee3f@default> <39B25622.12D9D761@sunherald.infi.net> <000701c015ba$9d13e140$0a3dee3f@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 08:46:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"7WyIk1.0.3Z5.3dEjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16646 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Yes I was a Physics major in college and the total system weight does not change because all of it is encapsulated together and just because something is in the air does not mean that it no longer weighs anything. Its weight is just supported by the air instead of the test tube wall. You are weighing the air as that is inside the tube. A fully loaded compressed air tank weighs more than an empty tank. Sam Garza ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Reiter To: Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2000 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials > Kyle; > > Might be possible. I had the test tube filled up to within about 1/4 of > the stopper, so there shouldn't have been that much room for dust. Also, > the relatively large grained Al2O3 (50 micron) gave better results than some > of the finer grained materials (silica powder, 20 micron SiC, V2O5 > precipitate powder) So I'm not sure. > > However, it does bring up that irritating old physics paradox: > > If one has a air tight sealed system, like a corked bottle, on a balance, > and inside of the bottle is a flying bug or airborne particle, does the > system weigh more when the bug or particle is at rest on the inside wall > than it does when it is moving through the air inside. > I have been told that the correct answer is that the weight of the system > does not change, due to the fact that one is weighing all the constituents > including the air inside of the bottle along with the bug. > Anyone ever test this though? > > NR > > > > Is it possible that what is happening is that the material creates a > > fine dust which is then suspended in the air (if any) inside the test > > tube, and as it then resettles out of the air, the tube weight returns > > to normal? > > > > --Kyle R. Mcallister > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 05:47:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA26596; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 05:47:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 05:47:14 -0700 Message-ID: <003701c01738$46b442c0$8002a8c0@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <200009040354.XAA11091@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 08:53:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"tHpZq.0.TV6.IjEjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16647 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The moisture is still weighed in the air or on the particles. The charge effect is a more reasonable approach. Sam Garza ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael T Huffman To: Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2000 11:54 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials > Bill Beaty writes: > >Try wrapping the tube in thin foil and see if the effect vanishes. Or try > >baking the tube and the powder to remove all moisture, and see if the > >effect lasts for lots longer. > > Those are good ideas for artifacts. The amount of moisture originally on > each grain may be boiling off when sonicated. The balance would lift by a > couple of mg, you turn off the sonic stimulation and after a time, the > moisture would return, kind of in the same way that air goes back into water > after it has been de-aerated. If you baked the tube and powder, and weighed > it, and waited until it cooled, and weighed it again to see a gain, that > should show the same effect as the sonication if this idea is correct. Just > moisture being removed, and then coming back. > > Knuke > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > The Villages, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke@LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 05:52:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA28796; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 05:52:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 05:52:24 -0700 Message-ID: <39B4EC76.62C92135@groupz.net> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 08:52:06 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <4.2.0.58.19990204071629.00c12a20@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <39B1D7C1.20FE9C1D@csrlink.net> <001601c0159e$32dc7a60$2d3dee3f@default> <39B25622.12D9D761@sunherald.infi.net> <000701c015ba$9d13e140$0a3dee3f@default> <002801c01737$58ba0500$8002a8c0@amer icanengr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wWOy13.0.i17.8oEjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16648 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: New high electromagnetic resistance material... Check it out... http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/000905/nj_nec_res.html steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 06:26:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA09465; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 06:25:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 06:25:19 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000905081511.0095b7b0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 08:25:17 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: How about an H2 pill? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"u4xM41.0.oJ2.-GFjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16649 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I am not sure ether... I think Sodium dioxide... This chemical was used in the 60's in a (toy) cannon... I think it was made by Franklin Add this powder and some water and a spark (made with flint) and KAPOWIE. Another perfectly "SAFE" Franklin toy. Along with there pellet gun that you could pump up to about 20 bar (2900PSI) and the air / water rocket now carried by Edmund scientific. You're right about the "sludge" description of the leavings. At 10:03 PM 9/4/00 -0700, you wrote: >>From: Mike Johnston >>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>To: energy21 >>Subject: [FG]: How about an H2 pill? >>Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 00:27:26 -0400 >> >> >>Hi all, >>How about a hydrogen pill? Here's the url of the guy who makes them: >>http://www.powerball.net/inside/index.shtml >>MJ >I've seen this before... it has been out there for a few years now... >This sounds like a really neat idea... In till I think about it... What >happens to the sludge of "water proof encasement" and resultant left in >the reactor tank??? >I don't know my chemistry... So could someone please tell me what would be >the left over after this type of reaction was done??? Acid??? Alkaloid??? >Toxic??? So+H2O=H2 and ??????? >And please put it in terms I (the non chemist) can relate to... Please... >Thank you, >Timothy... >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 06:28:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA10532; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 06:27:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 06:27:52 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000905082719.00959480@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 08:28:04 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: New high electromagnetic resistance material... In-Reply-To: <39B4EC76.62C92135@groupz.net> References: <4.2.0.58.19990204071629.00c12a20@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <39B1D7C1.20FE9C1D@csrlink.net> <001601c0159e$32dc7a60$2d3dee3f@default> <39B25622.12D9D761@sunherald.infi.net> <000701c015ba$9d13e140$0a3dee3f@default> <002801c01737$58ba0500$8002a8c0@americanengr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"xfUPt.0.Ta2.OJFjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16650 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Isn't NEC also the father of the 40nm memory cell? These guys need to get a life.... At 08:52 AM 9/5/00 -0400, you wrote: >Check it out... > >http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/000905/nj_nec_res.html > >steve __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 07:36:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA03349; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 07:34:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 07:34:58 -0700 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.0.20000905090724.00c6c240@mail.pcis.net> X-Sender: jdsanders@mail.pcis.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 09:32:38 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Joel D. Sanders" Subject: Re: [FG]: How about an H2 pill? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"jKgYk3.0.Eq.IIGjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16651 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Timothy, >I've seen this before... it has been out there for a few years now... >This sounds like a really neat idea... In till I think about it... What >happens to the sludge of "water proof encasement" and resultant left in >the reactor tank??? >I don't know my chemistry... So could someone please tell me what would be >the left over after this type of reaction was done??? Acid??? Alkaloid??? >Toxic??? So+H2O=H2 and ??????? >And please put it in terms I (the non chemist) can relate to... Please... >Thank you, >Timothy... You'll probably get this answer multiple times, but the other component produced in the reaction is NaOH (sodium hydroxide). NaOH is HIGHLY alkaline and is the main ingredient in Drano. It is also known colloquially as lye (as in lye soap). I suppose if the tank contains a lot of excess water then the alkalinity of the total solution could be kept within a safe range, otherwise this would be a pretty caustic byproduct. :) Regards, -Joel D. Sanders From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 09:31:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA10814; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 09:30:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 09:30:20 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 09:27:07 -0700 From: "Rick Dunn" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_114990EB.A6C7AEC7" Resent-Message-ID: <"zkTb22.0.ie2.P-Hjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16652 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_114990EB.A6C7AEC7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It tends to correlate with Keely's experiments on levitation. He found = that by subjecting different materials to certain sonic frequencies, he = could change the "vibratory rate" of the material and they would exhibit = antigravity effects. Rick >>> reit@ezworks.net 09/03/00 05:03AM >>> Gentlemen; Allow me to make another stab at stirring up some experimental work = here, aside from the grav-cap. Recently, I stumbled across an obscure document on the T. Townsend = Brown website that deals with an entirely novel and admittedly strange antigravit= y approach. What knocked me for a loop was that I had NEVER heard of this = one before amongst the anti-grav / FE / Tesla tech crowd. But nevertheless, I believe it could be a historical nugget that could be big in opening up antigravity! Apparently, in 1973 or so, Brown attempted to apply for a patent on a discovery he had made with certain refractory and rare earth materials. = In essence, he had discovered that some materials, in a granular or nano-particle form, will lose some of their gravitational mass when = excited by vibration and interparticle friction. They become temporarily lighter, this change in weight going away with a period of about 30 minutes or so. The document is called "Method for Producing Gravitationally Anomalous Materials" and it may be viewed as a .pdf document at: http://www.soteria.com/brown/info/patents/gravity.pdf One wonders why this patent was never awarded. Perhaps there was not sufficient theoretical basis for it. Brown admits in his disclosure that = he has absolutely no idea why it would work. Perhaps it dragged out long enough that Brown had passed away before any patent process could be completed. I dont know. In truth, I did get a chuckle over the ironic = fact that the document had the unfortunate luck to be signed and witnessed on April 1st. However, I feel it was not any sort of joke for two reasons. 1 = - Brown didn't go in for that sort of crap. 2. - See below. I've been = trying it. It seems to work. Yes, I have been playing with this, and I am excited to say that I believe it may very well work! Last week, I tried some simple tests at = the lab. I used a 10 ml pyrex test tube with a rubber stopper, and tried filling it with different powders and grains. These were then weighed on = an analytical balance with a 1 mg resolution. Following this, I put the test tube in a holder that immersed it in an ultrasonic cleaner, for 1/2 hour period of acoustic agitation. Immediately upon removal, I would wipe the test tube dry, and re-weigh it. With several of the materials, I did indeed see Brown's effect!! The weight loss was not much - on the order of milligrams for initial weights = of between 10 and 30 grams. However, it reversed itself and came back to the original weight within 15 minutes. I even ran a control test with no acoustic energy, just a hot water = bath to warm the material, as I was afraid that it may have been a thermal artifact (the ultrasonic energy heats the water and sample). But no = effect. It really seems genuine. Best results I have had so far were with Al2O3 50 micron beads = (blasting media). For a starting weight of about 21 grams, it lost 5 milligrams, = then gained it back within 15 minutes after post treatment re-weigh. Alumina (Al2O3) or boehmite (the hydroxide) were two of the materials Brown mentioned as having good properties for this effect. I am diving into this one. If this effect is real, then perhaps it relates to some of the truly wild mysteries such as Tibetan stone block levitation by music (acoustics) or even Coral Castle. Anybody care to = give it a try? The materials needed are easy to come by. The priciest item would probably be time on a milligram balance. Good luck! NR --=_114990EB.A6C7AEC7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: HTML
It tends to correlate with Keely's experiments on = levitation.=20 He found that by subjecting different materials to certain sonic frequencie= s, he=20 could change the "vibratory rate" of the material and they = would=20 exhibit antigravity effects.
 
Rick

>>> reit@ezworks.net 09/03/00 05:03AM=20 >>>

   Gentlemen;

   Allow me = to make=20 another stab at stirring up some experimental work here,
aside from = the=20 grav-cap.
   Recently, I stumbled across an obscure document = on the=20 T. Townsend Brown
website that deals with an entirely novel and = admittedly=20 strange antigravity
approach.  What knocked me for a loop was that = I had=20 NEVER heard of this one
before amongst the anti-grav / FE / Tesla = tech=20 crowd.  But nevertheless, I
believe it could be a historical = nugget that=20 could be big in opening up
antigravity!
   Apparently, in = 1973=20 or so, Brown attempted to apply for a patent on a
discovery he had made = with=20 certain refractory and rare earth materials.  In
essence, he = had=20 discovered that some materials, in a granular or
nano-particle form, = will=20 lose some of their gravitational mass when excited
by vibration and=20 interparticle friction.  They become temporarily lighter,
this = change in=20 weight going away with a period of about 30 minutes or so.
   = The=20 document is called "Method for Producing Gravitationally=20 Anomalous
Materials" and it may be viewed as a .pdf document = at:
http://www.s= oteria.com/brown/info/patents/gravity.pdf

  =20 One wonders why this patent was never awarded.  Perhaps there was=20 not
sufficient theoretical basis for it.  Brown admits in his = disclosure=20 that he
has absolutely no idea why it would work.  Perhaps it = dragged=20 out long
enough that Brown had passed away before any patent process = could=20 be
completed.  I dont know.  In truth, I did get a chuckle = over the=20 ironic fact
that the document had the unfortunate luck to be signed = and=20 witnessed on
April 1st.  However, I feel it was not any sort of = joke for=20 two reasons. 1 -
Brown didn't go in for that sort of crap.  2. - = See=20 below.  I've been trying
it.  It seems to work.

 &= nbsp;=20 Yes, I have been playing with this, and I am excited to say that I
belie= ve it=20 may very well work!  Last week, I tried some simple tests at=20 the
lab.  I used a 10 ml pyrex test tube with a rubber stopper, = and=20 tried
filling it with different powders and grains.  These were = then=20 weighed on an
analytical balance with a 1 mg resolution.  = Following=20 this, I put the test
tube in a holder that immersed it in an ultrasonic= =20 cleaner, for 1/2 hour
period of acoustic agitation.  Immediately = upon=20 removal, I would wipe the
test tube dry, and re-weigh it.
  = ;=20 With several of the materials, I did indeed see Brown's effect!! =20 The
weight loss was not much - on the order of milligrams for initial = weights=20 of
between 10 and 30 grams.  However, it reversed itself and came = back=20 to the
original weight within 15 minutes.
   I even ran = a=20 control test with no acoustic energy, just a hot water bath
to warm = the=20 material, as I was afraid that it may have been a thermal
artifact = (the=20 ultrasonic energy heats the water and sample).  But no effect.
It = really=20 seems genuine.
   Best results I have had so far were with = Al2O3 50=20 micron beads (blasting
media).  For a starting weight of about 21 = grams,=20 it lost 5 milligrams, then
gained it back within 15 minutes after = post=20 treatment re-weigh.  Alumina
(Al2O3) or boehmite (the hydroxide) = were=20 two of the materials Brown
mentioned as having good properties for = this=20 effect.

   I am diving into this one.  If this = effect is=20 real, then perhaps it
relates to some of the truly wild mysteries such = as=20 Tibetan stone block
levitation by music (acoustics) or even Coral=20 Castle.  Anybody care to give
it a try?  The materials needed = are=20 easy to come by.  The priciest item
would probably be time on a=20 milligram balance.

   Good luck!

 =20 NR

--=_114990EB.A6C7AEC7-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 11:07:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA12238; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:05:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:05:38 -0700 X-Originating-IP: 213.6.10.240 X-URL: http://www.mail2web.com/ Subject: Re: [FG]: Smot - Greg Watson - Delivery - ??? Sender: "harti@harti.com" From: "harti@harti.com" Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 14:04:07 -0400 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" CC: "randy_hargraves@hotmail.com" Reply-To: harti@harti.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: JMail 3.7.0 by Dimac (www.dimac.net) Message-Id: <200009051404470.SM00391@phobos.softcomca.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-Printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA12173 Resent-Message-ID: <"enBnV2.0.3_2.nNJjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16653 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com He refunded my SMOT money, cause he did not get it to work properly... Also the steel ball gets magnetized after a while and this changes the attraction inside the SMOT ramps... Original Message: ----------------- From: Randy Hargraves randy_hargraves@hotmail.com Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 02:47:55 GMT Subject: [FG]: Smot - Greg Watson - Delivery - ??? Hi List & Stefan I ordered a Smot from Gregg I be lieve that he was at one time going to send out the smot or the money. I have been waiting for the smot. has any one got there's??? or requested the money??? or does any one know the status of the projcet????? Randy Hargraves Yukon, Oklahoma, USA _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 11:07:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA12624; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:06:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:06:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:06:38 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials In-Reply-To: <200009040354.XAA11091@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"J9haV.0.253.rOJjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16654 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sun, 3 Sep 2000, Michael T Huffman wrote: > If you baked the tube and powder, and weighed > it, and waited until it cooled, and weighed it again to see a gain, that > should show the same effect as the sonication if this idea is correct. Just > moisture being removed, and then coming back. If the outside of the tube picked up moisture from the air, the tube would get heavier. But nothing INSIDE the tube can affect the measured mass, at least according to conventional physics it can't. For example, if all the air in the tube was cooled and condensed into a liquid droplet, the mass of the tube contents wouldn't change. If you blow up a big helium balloon inside a submarine, the submarine doesn't get more bouyant. But if you blow up the same balloon outside the submarine, you get a huge amount of bouyancy. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 11:25:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA20501; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:24:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:24:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:24:00 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: tomcar@apk.net Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials In-Reply-To: <39B3B498.1A72EB64@centurytel.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SvDej2.0.E05.AfJjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16655 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Taylor J. Smith wrote: > The only effective way I found to dispel this misconception was > to have each student "weigh" (find the mass of) an empty balloon, > then blow it up and weigh it again. Even that can be misleading, because a full balloon weighs the same as an empty one UNLESS the full balloon is extremely full so the rubber is stretched tight and the air is under high pressure. In theory a full balloon weighs exactly the same as an empty balloon because both are immersed in a sea of air. Think: when underwater, does a garbage bag full of water weigh several hundred pounds more than a flattened, empty garbage bag? Obviously not. In the classroom try weighing a plastic garbage bag, then fill it with air and weigh it again. The weight will be exactly the same, even though there are hundreds of grams of air in the bag. To sense the weight of air within balloons, either we have to perform the experiment in a vacuum, or we have to compare a 95%-full balloon to an EXTREMELY full balloon which is almost at the point of bursting. Another experiment I've seen which measures the true weight of air: measure the weight of a small steel bottle, then pump all the air out and weigh it again. Here's another one which is less misleading than the balloons: vent the air out of a basketball and collapse it. Weigh it. Then inflate it so it just barely attains a spherical shape, and weigh it again. The volume is much larger but the weight doesn't increase! This is because it is immersed in air, and filled/empty bags in air weigh the same. Finally pump the basketball up hard and weigh it again, and the weight has significantly increased. While immersed in air, COMPRESSED air weighs more. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 11:35:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA24043; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:32:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:32:55 -0700 Message-ID: <39B53CDF.D618B9C@isla.net> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 14:35:11 -0400 From: Clalian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yJRvy1.0.Wt5.NnJjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16656 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Asking for help. Hello, I've been a subscriber to this list for some time now and I've seen many topics that interest me very much. But the thing is I'm 19 and I'm studying physics right now. So some of the things that are spoken here I don't understand. I obviously don't want an explanation of everything, so I was wondering if people could suggest good books that I could read to learn about these topics. Anything that'll help me understand these experiments and will help me do some of them. I'm not looking for simple books but rather something that'll get me started and my curiosity pumped up. Thank you very much. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 11:45:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA27460; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:39:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:39:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:39:36 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"r_oo11.0.zi6.itJjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16657 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 5 Sep 2000, Rick Dunn wrote: > It tends to correlate with Keely's experiments on levitation. He found > that by subjecting different materials to certain sonic frequencies, he > could change the "vibratory rate" of the material and they would exhibit > antigravity effects. Ooo, there's an idea for an experiment. Put the material in question in direct contact with a high power piezo transducer, then slowly scan the frequency from zero to MHZ while continuously weighing it. There might be artifacts at the mechanical resonance points because of escaping sound, but if there were any peaks or vallys associated with particular kinds of material, that would be bery interesting. Maybe the observed weight change is actually in the "foothills" of a graph which has a huge peak at a particular frequency. What about the PZT material of the transducer itself? If it was suspended inside a container so sound doesn't leak out, is there any particular frequency which causes tiny changes in weight? Just another idea to write down for future testing. (FAR future, if I'm the one who does it.) Heh. Maybe the "gravity capacitor" is pulling a stunt like the one in the movie "Cold Fusion", and it only puts out a thrust if the environment happens to have some particular sound in it. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 12:44:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18163; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:43:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:43:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:43:32 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Asking for help. In-Reply-To: <39B53CDF.D618B9C@isla.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RZKrt.0.eR4.kpKjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16658 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 5 Sep 2000, Clalian wrote: > I'm not looking for simple books but rather something that'll get me > started and my curiosity pumped up. Thank you very much. For high-voltage anomalies, R.A. Ford's HOMEMADE LIGHTNING is the one to have. Try MIND MACHINES YOU CAN BUILD for very weird experiments. For physics in general, there's John Strong's PROCEDURES IN EXPERIMENTAL PHYSICS. I have these listed at: http://www.amasci.com/bookstr.html http://www.amasci.com/weird/wbookstr.html To get started instantly, get Forrest Mims "engineer's mini-notebooks" from any Radio Shack store. I bet that many of us here on FREENRG-L grew up on these books. http://www.radioshack.com/sw/swb/bookshelf/emn/default.htm Mims also has a couple of compilations of his magazine columns out: The Forrest Mims Circuit Scrapbook VOL I http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1878707485/sciencehobbyist/ VOL II http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1878707493/sciencehobbyist/ ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 13:00:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA22475; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:55:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:55:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:55:00 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: New high electromagnetic resistance material... In-Reply-To: <39B4EC76.62C92135@groupz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZnQ2Q2.0._U5.X-Kjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16659 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 5 Sep 2000, sno wrote: > Check it out... > > http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/000905/nj_nec_res.html > > steve Cool! Giant magnetoresistance, Colossal magnetoresistance, now Extraordinary magnetoresistance. I wonder how it compares in SNR to Hall effect sensors. So gold films radically change resistance under magnetism, but only when sandwiched between semiconductor? I wonder if this is an electron spin effect. (If there's no theory to explain it, it cannot exist, right? ) :) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 13:04:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA24483; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:58:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:58:21 -0700 From: "David Rosignoli" Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Reply-to: drdaveor@enter.net To: William Beaty , freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-CC-Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 15:58:15 +400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.1t, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <39b55057.83d.0@enter.net> X-User-Info: 192.91.146.35 Resent-Message-ID: <"N6k6b1.0.S-5.S1Ljv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16660 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well, how about sonoluminescence? Has anyone ever measured weight changes in that setup? True, it uses pure water, instead of powders, but distilled water is also a dielectric. The setup for sonoluminescence uses soundwaves to create cavitation. What happens if this is applied to a solid? If it reaches resonance, I assume it breaks apart. Does it lose weight? Is there a maximum weight loss right when the material breaks apart - a sort of transient effect phenomenon that lingers (kind of like the BB effect)? So many questions, so litte money for hardware. ;) > >Ooo, there's an idea for an experiment. Put the material in question in >direct contact with a high power piezo transducer, then slowly scan the >frequency from zero to MHZ while continuously weighing it. There might be >artifacts at the mechanical resonance points because of escaping sound, >but if there were any peaks or vallys associated with particular kinds of >material, that would be bery interesting. Maybe the observed weight >change is actually in the "foothills" of a graph which has a huge peak at >a particular frequency. > >What about the PZT material of the transducer itself? If it was suspended >inside a container so sound doesn't leak out, is there any particular >frequency which causes tiny changes in weight? Just another idea to write >down for future testing. (FAR future, if I'm the one who does it.) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 14:35:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA10786; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 14:34:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 14:34:39 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <83.462d7f.26e6c0c7@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 17:33:59 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Resent-Message-ID: <"wr6DM2.0.Oe2.jRMjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16661 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 9/5/00 9:30:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, DUNNRI@rockfordcorp.com writes: > I even ran a control test with no acoustic energy, just a hot water bath > to warm the material, as I was afraid that it may have been a thermal > artifact (the ultrasonic energy heats the water and sample). But no effect. > It really seems genuine. A thermal-related artifact does sound likely. The two one thinks of immediately is thermal air currents around the test tube and expansion of the test tube and stopper due to a higher temperature. Either would cause an apparent weight loss. Are we sure neither of these account for the weight losses observed? Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 16:21:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA16817; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:17:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:17:58 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <83.462d7f.26e6c0c7@aol.com> References: <83.462d7f.26e6c0c7@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 13:17:38 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"02nNS.0.f64.byNjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16662 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com After reading through the Brown material on this, the one thing all his different methods have in common for creating the effect is that they would tend to generate high local voltages on the materials. My guess is that it is an effect related to having unbalanced charge at fairly high voltages on hand, and the effect goes away as the charges recombine and/or leak off. But what effect is it, exactly? The simple presence of some high voltage collecting inside a vial of material might very well account for a slight push or a pull in some random direction, but a consistent weight loss? Hmm... If I bite down suddenly on a mouthfull of wintergreen flavored lifesavers, my head does feel lighter for a few minutes.. Good find, Nick. Please keep us updated. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI >In a message dated 9/5/00 9:30:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >DUNNRI@rockfordcorp.com writes: > >> I even ran a control test with no acoustic energy, just a hot water bath >> to warm the material, as I was afraid that it may have been a thermal >> artifact (the ultrasonic energy heats the water and sample). But no >effect. >> It really seems genuine. > A thermal-related artifact does sound likely. The two one thinks of >immediately is thermal air currents around the test tube and expansion of the >test tube and stopper due to a higher temperature. Either would cause an >apparent weight loss. > Are we sure neither of these account for the weight losses observed? > > Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 16:40:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA24781; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:40:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:40:14 -0700 Sender: jack@mail3.centurytel.net Message-ID: <39B58465.5395FC2F@centurytel.net> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 23:40:21 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="x" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="x" Resent-Message-ID: <"L9mUI.0.-26.SHOjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16663 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Taylor J. Smith wrote: The only effective way I found to dispel this misconception was to have each student "weigh" (find the mass of) an empty balloon, then blow it up and weigh it again. William Beaty wrote: Even that can be misleading, because a full balloon weighs the same as an empty one UNLESS the full balloon is extremely full so the rubber is stretched tight and the air is under high pressure. Jack writes: Yes. That's the "trick" to this experiment. Bill wrote: In theory a full balloon weighs exactly the same as an empty balloon because both are immersed in a sea of air ... While immersed in air, COMPRESSED air weighs more. Hi Bill, Excellent comments. It was a very rare event when a student asked me about buoyancy. Then I would have to "fess up" and explain the trick. Increasing the pressure increases the density of the air, and a given volume "weighs" more. Since my purpose was to demonstrate that air has mass in the face of a formidable misconception, I didn't feel too guilty by generally not telling the whole story. Anyway, most of the science I did with my students was magic as far as they were concerned. A magician does not explain all his tricks. Jack Smith From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 18:21:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA24909; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:19:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:19:55 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.102] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: How about an H2 pill? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 18:19:48 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Sep 2000 01:19:48.0932 (UTC) FILETIME=[8CB60840:01C017A0] Resent-Message-ID: <"gU_AY3.0.056.ukPjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16664 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >I am not sure ether... I think Sodium dioxide... > >This chemical was used in the 60's in a (toy) cannon... I think it was >made by Franklin >Add this powder and some water and a spark (made with flint) and KAPOWIE. Hay... I had one of those... They are still sold... see... http://www.hobbysurplus.com/bigbangcannon.asp And yes they did have a lot of sluge... Yek... Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 18:36:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA29286; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:31:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:31:09 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.102] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: How about an H2 pill? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 18:31:05 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Sep 2000 01:31:05.0854 (UTC) FILETIME=[203021E0:01C017A2] Resent-Message-ID: <"vQpFX3.0.V97.TvPjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16665 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Now that I think about it... It was not H2... Again I'm not a chemist... So I don't have the right terms... But it used carbide which produced acetylene gas and lie... I know it was carbide because my father had some for his mining light... Timothy... >I am not sure ether... I think Sodium dioxide... > >This chemical was used in the 60's in a (toy) cannon... I think it was >made by Franklin >Add this powder and some water and a spark (made with flint) and KAPOWIE. > >Another perfectly "SAFE" Franklin toy. Along with there pellet gun that >you could pump up to about 20 bar (2900PSI) and the air / water rocket now >carried by Edmund scientific. > >You're right about the "sludge" description of the leavings. > >At 10:03 PM 9/4/00 -0700, you wrote: >>>From: Mike Johnston >>>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>>To: energy21 >>>Subject: [FG]: How about an H2 pill? >>>Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 00:27:26 -0400 >>> >>> >>>Hi all, >>>How about a hydrogen pill? Here's the url of the guy who makes them: >>>http://www.powerball.net/inside/index.shtml >>>MJ >>I've seen this before... it has been out there for a few years now... >>This sounds like a really neat idea... In till I think about it... What >>happens to the sludge of "water proof encasement" and resultant left in >>the reactor tank??? >>I don't know my chemistry... So could someone please tell me what would be >>the left over after this type of reaction was done??? Acid??? Alkaloid??? >>Toxic??? So+H2O=H2 and ??????? >>And please put it in terms I (the non chemist) can relate to... Please... >>Thank you, >>Timothy... >>_________________________________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. >> >>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >>http://profiles.msn.com. > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 19:17:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA13097; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 19:16:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 19:16:49 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:16:39 -0400 Message-Id: <200009060216.WAA05181@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Resent-Message-ID: <"xPkrB3.0.VC3.HaQjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16667 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Dave writes: >Well, how about sonoluminescence? Has anyone ever measured weight changes in >that setup? True, it uses pure water, instead of powders, but distilled water >is also a dielectric. The setup for sonoluminescence uses soundwaves to create >cavitation. What happens if this is applied to a solid? If it reaches resonance, >I assume it breaks apart. Does it lose weight? Is there a maximum weight loss >right when the material breaks apart - a sort of transient effect phenomenon >that lingers (kind of like the BB effect)? So many questions, so litte money >for hardware. >;) Hi Dave, In all my reading on sonoluminescence and cavitation, I've never seen this question even considered. The effect on single bubble cavitator might not be measurable, but with a multibubble setup there might be. Thanks for the idea. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 19:18:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA13119; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 19:16:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 19:16:57 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:16:38 -0400 Message-Id: <200009060216.WAA05164@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: New high electromagnetic resistance material... Resent-Message-ID: <"x5pbf.0.WC3.HaQjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16666 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill writes: >Cool! Giant magnetoresistance, Colossal magnetoresistance, now >Extraordinary magnetoresistance. I wonder how it compares in SNR to Hall >effect sensors. > >So gold films radically change resistance under magnetism, but only when >sandwiched between semiconductor? I wonder if this is an electron spin >effect. (If there's no theory to explain it, it cannot exist, right? ) > >:) I am wondering if the gold has to be processed in some way. There is a technique, and I can't remember the name of it, where you press or hammer a malleable material with the strokes all going in one direction. A similar effect is made in ceramics by flattening the clay using strokes that go only in one direction. This supposedly gives additional strength in ceramics, and in metals all of the domains end up in the same direction. Does anybody know or remember the name of this technique? Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 20:11:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA06254; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 20:10:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 20:10:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 20:10:18 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials In-Reply-To: <200009060216.WAA05181@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZAkTQ.0.cX1.TMRjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16668 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 5 Sep 2000, Michael T Huffman wrote: > In all my reading on sonoluminescence and cavitation, I've never seen this > question even considered. The effect on single bubble cavitator might not > be measurable, but with a multibubble setup there might be. Thanks for the > idea. Here's another interesting one. The equipment is a bit more expensive though! Perhaps the unexplained errors in space probe trajectories is caused by their RTG plutonium power supplies? Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:29:30 -0700 From: DOUG W To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Comments from billb amform --- comments --- I JUST FOUND YOUR GREAT SITE...THANKS! I WAS ATTENDING THE UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI, OXFORD, MISSISSIPPI, AS MECHANICAL ENGINEER STUDENT IN 1965. SOMEHOW THE UNIVERSITY TALKED AUTHORITIES INTO LETTING US INSTALL A SMALL ATOMIC REACTOR FOR EXPERIMENTAL PURPOSES. FINALLY, OUR CLASS GOT ITS CHANCE TO GATHER AROUND THE REACTOR, WHICH WAS SITTING ON A 6 INCH RAISED CONCRETE PAD, BUT UNATTACHED TO IT. AS THE OPERATOR RAISED THE CONTROL RODS AND THE REACTOR HEATED UP TO NEAR RED LINE OPERATION, SEVERAL STUDENTS LEANED AGAINST THE REACTOR, STRUGGLING TO SEE THE CONTROL PANEL. THEN IT HAPPENED: THE SUPER HEAVY REACTOR SLID AN INCH OR SO OVER THE PAD, STRAINING ATTACHED PIPES. EVERYONE WAS WITNESS TO THIS LEVITATION AND WE DISCUSSED IT FOR MANY WEEKS. KNOW YOU ARE BUSY, BUT WANTED TO GET THIS INFO TO YOU. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 21:31:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA31957; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 21:29:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 21:29:41 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c017bd$6cd17ce0$dda970d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: References: Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 20:46:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"_wz351.0.9p7.rWSjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16669 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Converting Atomic energy to kinetic energy If anybody wants free energy, check this out. It might be the way to go. Interested in hearing any feedback, go to this site. http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?&pn=USO3670494__&s_detd=1#detd From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 22:08:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA10500; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:08:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:08:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000905212601.2c0f029c@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 21:26:01 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials In-Reply-To: References: <39B3B498.1A72EB64@centurytel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZsQPs3.0.zZ2.x4Tjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16670 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Bill, At 11:24 AM 09/05/00 -0700, you wrote: >Think: when underwater, does a garbage bag full of water weigh several >hundred pounds more than a flattened, empty garbage bag? Obviously not. >In the classroom try weighing a plastic garbage bag, then fill it with air >and weigh it again. Yea! I wish I thought of that, especially _many_ years ago when I found a large book called something like "101 science experiments". It had the experiment to weight an empty then full bal1oon to weight the air. But then a few pages away, it explained that we were under a column of air, about 14.7 lbs/sq. inch. I couldn't find anyone to explain the contradiction! The only other experiment I remembered in it was melting a string through a block of ice. -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 22:10:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA11458; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:09:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:09:58 -0700 Message-ID: <000901c017c3$0e36ae20$63a270d1@markross> From: "sparky" To: Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 21:26:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0177F.FEE54E60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"QX8vi.0.to2.c6Tjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16671 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: METHOD AND MEANS OF CONVERTING ATOMIC ENERGY INTO UTILIZABLE KINETIC ENERGY (US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0177F.FEE54E60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0177F.FEE54E60" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0177F.FEE54E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Try this one more time = http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS03670494__&s_detd=3D1#detd ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0177F.FEE54E60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Try this one more time

 http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS036704= 94__&s_detd=3D1#detd ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0177F.FEE54E60-- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0177F.FEE54E60 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="METHOD AND MEANS OF CONVERTING ATOMIC ENERGY INTO UTILIZABLE KINETIC ENERGY (US3670494) (3).url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="METHOD AND MEANS OF CONVERTING ATOMIC ENERGY INTO UTILIZABLE KINETIC ENERGY (US3670494) (3).url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=3Dhttp://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS03670494__&s_detd= =3D1 [DOC#6] BASEURL=3Dhttp://ad.doubleclick.net/adi/patents.ibm.com/mechanical;sz=3D4= 68x60;cat=3Dresearch;ord=3D4414367? ORIGURL=3Dhttp://ad.doubleclick.net/adi/patents.ibm.com/mechanical;sz=3D4= 68x60;cat=3Dresearch;ord=3D4414367? [InternetShortcut] URL=3Dhttp://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?&pn=3DUS03670494__&s_detd=3D1= #detd Modified=3D008CA9C9C217C00198 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0177F.FEE54E60-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 5 22:56:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA22908; Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:56:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:56:13 -0700 Message-ID: <01C0178D.21A4CD10@istf-2-88.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: [FG]: Smot - Greg Watson - Delivery - ??? Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 23:00:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01C0178D.21A4CD10" Resent-Message-ID: <"yYSYb3.0.mb5.ynTjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16672 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01C0178D.21A4CD10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randy, Last spring Greg answered my e-mail and promised twice to send a refund, but never did. Dan Quickert -----Original Message----- From: Randy Hargraves Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 7:48 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Smot - Greg Watson - Delivery - ??? Hi List & Stefan I ordered a Smot from Gregg I be lieve that he was at one time going to send out the smot or the money. I have been waiting for the smot. has any one got there's??? or requested the money??? or does any one know the status of the projcet????? Randy Hargraves Yukon, Oklahoma, USA ------ =_NextPart_000_01C0178D.21A4CD10 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjAGAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAsAEAAAEAAAARAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAwBxOgAAAAAeAPZfAQAAABUAAABmcmVlbnJnLWxA ZXNraW1vLmNvbQAAAAACAfdfAQAAAEcAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABmcmVlbnJn LWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbQBTTVRQAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tpbW8uY29tAAADAP1fAQAAAAMA/18AAAAA AgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAqhYAQSAAQAuAAAAUkU6IFtGR106IFNtb3QgLSBHcmVnIFdhdHNvbiAt IERlbGl2ZXJ5IC0gPz8/AJwNAQWAAwAOAAAA0AcJAAUAFwAAACkAAgAnAQEggAMADgAAANAHCQAF ABYAOAAcAAIAUQEBCYABACEAAAAyQjczMjE3QUE0ODNENDExOUFCNjJFNzVGNDAwMDAwMADiBgED kAYAAAYAACIAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAA AABAADkAgLh1yccXwAEeAHAAAQAAAC4AAABSRTogW0ZHXTogU21vdCAtIEdyZWcgV2F0c29uIC0g RGVsaXZlcnkgLSA/Pz8AAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABwBfHyWF6IXMsg6QR1Jq2LnX0AAAAAAAeAB4M AQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAFwAAAGRlcXVpY2tlcnRAdWNkYXZpcy5lZHUAAAMABhC5 fDeOAwAHEM4BAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABSQU5EWSxMQVNUU1BSSU5HR1JFR0FOU1dFUkVETVlFLU1B SUxBTkRQUk9NSVNFRFRXSUNFVE9TRU5EQVJFRlVORCxCVVRORVZFUkRJRERBTlFVSUNLRVJULS0t LS1PUklHSU5BAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAtwIAALMCAAAmBAAATFpGddrmnjN3AAoBAwH3IAKkA+MCAGOC aArAc2V0MCAHE4cCgwBQDvZwcnEyD/YmfQqACMggOwlvMjVmNQKACoF1YwBQCwNjAwBBC2BuZzEw MzPHC6YH8ABwZHksCqIKhNEKgExhcwVAcxFAC4C4ZyBHCXAYIABxdwSQgQmAIG15IGUtAMB7AxEW cSARQANwBAAY8XTpA/BjZRqAbxfACfAZACRhIAlwZnUWgCwgRGJ1BUBuZXYEkCBQZGlkLhbKRAOR UWp1GrBrBJB0FsoK9Gx4aTM2AUAVEAFAGgF0hwWQHmAQkzE2IC0hMnpPBRBnC4AHQAXQB5Bz/GFn GVAhMhbGIEQgEQsTwSBGaS0xNDQBQB+QODE4MAFADNAk02IgKkYDYToMg2IWRSBI+wrACcBhHHAE IRbUJgAGYMsCMCZnTQIgZGEWoAZRzQUwZQbQHIEwNBvwAdABJWAgNzo0OCBQ8k0n91RvJmcDUAnh J3AoLWxAB5BrB3BvLsUFoG0n+HViaiBxJmfgW0ZHXToGAARgBUDCLRg0V2F0cwIgMCG8RGUfkBxx GTAwMD8x4B8i3yPqH5QLthbZSGkgZkwEAAVAICYGACBgZvMAcBbKSSAFsASBGPEbcLcv4wNSGDNn NuYqMCAfkK8cYRqAD4AFQGga0HcXkB8YgAVAAiAa0QdxIGdvvxgCGvYIYAVAOgAa0HMv8u8FsTyi BGAcUHkc5TdAD4DvOdEqMAnwOnFpOzAYEQIQ/z1EPOIc6xbENeBBlg+AOqE+bhkwOvI7gDyDCXAn c+8x50GYBbEJcHEKUBegGmJnPXZDr0SzZG8HkUJ2a5xubwfgPKMBkHR1BCCsb2Y8kxoBahrAdDHh xzH4Fugm/ll1awIgG/A0T2sLYGgDcRvwVVMqQUqfChIBAE9QAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAAeAEIQ AQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcw4GrIMscXwAFAAAgw4GrIMscXwAELAACACCAGAAAAAADA AAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwACgAgg BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAAPMVAAAeAAOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAA AAUAAAA4LjA0AAAAAAMABIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAFgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADAAaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAB4AI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgAIgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEA AAABAAAAAAAAAB4ACYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAAqACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00 /TcAAGpS ------ =_NextPart_000_01C0178D.21A4CD10-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 6 03:48:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA16701; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 03:48:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 03:48:00 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 06:47:47 -0400 Message-Id: <200009061047.GAA30831@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Resent-Message-ID: <"OE-zQ1.0.r44.W3Yjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16673 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill writes: >Here's another interesting one. The equipment is a bit more expensive >though! Perhaps the unexplained errors in space probe trajectories is >caused by their RTG plutonium power supplies? Wow, never heard of anything like that happening before. Nothing like having nuke reactors floating around your lab, eh? I have looked at the power supplies for spacecraft, and all the ones that I have seen are not the same kind of reactors - there are no control rods or anything like that. If anything, they are more like nuclear batteries. Almost what might be considered solid state. Still, NASA and Moscow have reported that quite a few of the space probe problems have been "gravity" related. It never occurred to me that this sort of thing could be involved. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 6 05:36:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA06684; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 05:35:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 05:35:35 -0700 Message-ID: <20000906123502.24870.qmail@web4402.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 05:35:02 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"EIeS12.0.Ge1.NeZjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16674 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Overload Current Demand/Overload Mind Demand Concerning the Philadelphia Experiment it is said a dangerous overload occurred where too much current demand produced a current that accomplished this as a transformer fire. By using generators of high frequency that will only supply x amount of current, it is quite easy to supply an amperage source to be transformed upwards in voltage, that will never reach the expected voltage at transformation because that amperage source itself can never supply the amount asked for. The whole science of tesla coils is based on limiting the amperage input on the other side of the equation. This misses the other possibility that the rotational emf sources could be asked to supply an amount of current that if supplied in impossible demand would deliver an impossibly huge voltage magnification. In those cases where what is asked for current wise as input,appears more in counterpart high voltage wise as expression of that energy by siphoning of the vaccuum energy when the rotational emf supply could not meet the demand. The gulf between these parameters exists plainly so that the resonant rise of voltage is made by one end beyond what the input rotational movements of emf could supply, and the difference of these amounts are essentially what consists of a free energy effect beyond that considered by present motional laws. Concerning these motional laws, not a single one has undertook the work to ever move a tesla high frequency coil in space in coordination with its frequency, or to place the same problem and solution to the thinking he provided. So that has been over a century since those coils have been made, and they have not moved an inch in space since then. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 6 16:00:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA29622; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 15:59:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 15:59:01 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:58:17 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"uVJxJ.0.gE7.qmijv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16675 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Progress update on motor Hi all, I have all motor parts assembled minus the electronic control system. I will be making final adjustments on alignment of the coils to rotor magnets tonight. A few other adjustments and I be ready to test without the ferrite inserts in the coils to see what kind of pattern I get. I am driving the rotor for tests with a 12 VDC automobile cooling fan motor. I control the rpm with two 12 volt automobile battery chargers wired in parallel to handle 12 volts and 20 amps DC current. I control the voltage by putting a home light dimmer on the AC input line. It works just fine. For the power supply to the coils and control circuit I use an additional 12 VDC automobile battery charger with a 12 VDC car battery as ballast. I am looking for someone in the neighborhood who has a digital camera so I can put motor pictures on the web site. I will let you know when control circuit is complete. Regards, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 6 16:49:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA13246; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 16:43:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 16:43:27 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 19:40:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Uban Message-Id: <200009062340.TAA29526@world.std.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Smot - Greg Watson - Delivery - ??? Cc: gowatson@ozemail.com.au, gowatson@hotmail.com, randy_hargraves@hotmail.com Resent-Message-ID: <"1MV3B1.0.tE3.UQjjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16676 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Stefan, Randy, I'm still awaiting my refund (for 2 SMOTs), even though Greg said he would refund them in May of this year (after my waiting two years for delivery or refund). But, he has not yet done so... Jim > Stefan H_ wrote: >He refunded my SMOT money, >cause he did not get it to work properly... >Also the steel ball gets magnetized after a while >and this changes the attraction inside the SMOT ramps... > >>Original Message: >>----------------- >>From: Randy Hargraves randy_hargraves@hotmail.com >> >>Hi List & Stefan >> >>I ordered a Smot from Gregg >>I be lieve that he was at one time going to send out the smot or the money. >>I have been waiting for the smot. >> >> has any one got there's??? >> or requested the money??? >> or does any one know the status of the projcet????? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 6 20:31:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA22535; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:25:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:25:29 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 14:24:58 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <200009060216.WAA05181@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA22457 Resent-Message-ID: <"r6ueC3.0.0W5.egmjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16677 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to William Beaty's message of Tue, 5 Sep 2000 20:10:18 -0700 (PDT): [snip] >I JUST FOUND YOUR GREAT SITE...THANKS! I WAS ATTENDING THE UNIVERSITY >OF MISSISSIPPI, OXFORD, MISSISSIPPI, AS MECHANICAL ENGINEER STUDENT IN >1965. SOMEHOW THE UNIVERSITY TALKED AUTHORITIES INTO LETTING US >INSTALL A SMALL ATOMIC REACTOR FOR EXPERIMENTAL PURPOSES. FINALLY, >OUR CLASS GOT ITS CHANCE TO GATHER AROUND THE REACTOR, WHICH WAS >SITTING ON A 6 INCH RAISED CONCRETE PAD, BUT UNATTACHED TO IT. AS THE >OPERATOR RAISED THE CONTROL RODS AND THE REACTOR HEATED UP TO NEAR RED >LINE OPERATION, SEVERAL STUDENTS LEANED AGAINST THE REACTOR, STRUGGLING >TO SEE THE CONTROL PANEL. THEN IT HAPPENED: THE SUPER HEAVY REACTOR >SLID AN INCH OR SO OVER THE PAD, STRAINING ATTACHED PIPES. EVERYONE >WAS WITNESS TO THIS LEVITATION AND WE DISCUSSED IT FOR MANY WEEKS. [snip] Sounds a little like the "Fran De Aquino" effect. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 6 21:28:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13265; Wed, 6 Sep 2000 21:26:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 21:26:50 -0700 Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 00:26:41 -0400 Message-Id: <200009070426.AAA32212@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Resent-Message-ID: <"WC1Mr.0.6F3.Aanjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16678 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Robin writes: >Sounds a little like the "Fran De Aquino" effect. > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk That's what I was getting at with the gold foil question, too. Does the De Aquino device require that the outside metal have all the domains pointing in the same direction? Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 7 00:22:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA24837; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 00:18:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 00:18:03 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 18:17:38 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <200009070426.AAA32212@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> In-Reply-To: <200009070426.AAA32212@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA24813 Resent-Message-ID: <"S_hTe1.0.-36.f4qjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16679 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Michael T Huffman's message of Thu, 7 Sep 2000 00:26:41 -0400: >Robin writes: >>Sounds a little like the "Fran De Aquino" effect. >> >>Regards, >> >>Robin van Spaandonk > >That's what I was getting at with the gold foil question, too. Does the De >Aquino device require that the outside metal have all the domains pointing >in the same direction? [snip] I don't think so, but why not email and ask? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 7 05:24:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA14069; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 05:23:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 05:23:56 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01c018c7$59af67c0$8002a8c0@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <200009062340.TAA29526@world.std.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Smot - Greg Watson - Delivery - ??? Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 08:30:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"0hpsq.0.kR3.SZujv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16680 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com What is a SMOT? Sam Garza ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Uban To: Cc: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Smot - Greg Watson - Delivery - ??? > Hi Stefan, Randy, > > I'm still awaiting my refund > (for 2 SMOTs), even though Greg said > he would refund them in May of this year > (after my waiting two years for delivery > or refund). But, he has not yet done > so... > Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 7 11:03:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA23695; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 11:01:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 11:01:42 -0700 Message-ID: <39B7D04A.9D32BAAE@harti.com> Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 19:28:42 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Dan Quickert , Jim Uban Subject: Re: [FG]: Smot - Greg Watson - Delivery - ??? References: <01C0178D.21A4CD10@istf-2-88.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6O_eB1.0.8o5.4Wzjv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16681 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Jim and Dan, write to: gowatson@hotmail.com and ask Greg for a refund.. I know he has refunded a few people including me and also paying 50 AU$ more refund in compensation for the long wait.... Regards, Stefan. Dan Quickert schrieb: > > Randy, > > Last spring Greg answered my e-mail and promised twice to send a refund, but never did. > > Dan Quickert > > -----Original Message----- > From: Randy Hargraves > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 7:48 PM > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: [FG]: Smot - Greg Watson - Delivery - ??? > > Hi List & Stefan > > I ordered a Smot from Gregg > I be lieve that he was at one time going to send out the smot or the money. > I have been waiting for the smot. > > has any one got there's??? > or requested the money??? > or does any one know the status of the projcet????? > > Randy Hargraves Yukon, Oklahoma, USA > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 7 13:34:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA13996; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 13:32:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 13:32:27 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000907153207.00962f00@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 15:32:39 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Smot - Greg Watson - Delivery - ??? In-Reply-To: <001c01c018c7$59af67c0$8002a8c0@americanengr.com> References: <200009062340.TAA29526@world.std.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"QTF3v1.0.WQ3.Rj_jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16682 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I think they are talking about this doodad.... http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/smotidx.htm At 08:30 AM 9/7/00 -0400, you wrote: >What is a SMOT? > >Sam Garza > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jim Uban >To: >Cc: ; ; > >Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 7:40 PM >Subject: Re: [FG]: Smot - Greg Watson - Delivery - ??? > > > > Hi Stefan, Randy, > > > > I'm still awaiting my refund > > (for 2 SMOTs), even though Greg said > > he would refund them in May of this year > > (after my waiting two years for delivery > > or refund). But, he has not yet done > > so... > > Jim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 7 13:50:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20349; Thu, 7 Sep 2000 13:49:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 13:49:47 -0700 Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 16:44:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Uban Message-Id: <200009072044.QAA29236@world.std.com> To: Stefan Hartmann Subject: Re: [FG]: Smot - Greg Watson - Delivery - ??? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gowatson@hotmail.com References: <01C0178D.21A4CD10@istf-2-88.ucdavis.edu> Resent-Message-ID: <"lEN1c1.0.nz4.gz_jv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16683 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Stefan, I have gone back and forth several times with Greg; gave him my bank information, after he had refunded you and Dieter(?); he promised to refund and gave a date; slipped that date and repromised a new date (to be in May); but has not come through yet... As far as I remember from following the list, Greg has only refunded two people so far, but perhaps I missed some? Jim -----------------------Original Msg--------------------- Hi Jim and Dan, write to: gowatson@hotmail.com and ask Greg for a refund.. I know he has refunded a few people including me and also paying 50 AU$ more refund in compensation for the long wait.... Regards, Stefan. Dan Quickert schrieb: > > Randy, > > Last spring Greg answered my e-mail and promised twice to send a refund, but never did. > > Dan Quickert > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 8 06:55:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02833; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 06:54:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 06:54:04 -0700 From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: energy21@listbot.com, interact@keelynet.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com, nuenergy@egroups.com Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 10:53:16 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br CC: carlosfac@ig.com.br Message-ID: <39B8C51C.27105.98989E9@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000c01c01995$39ef9d00$3049e2c8@antonio> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Resent-Message-ID: <"kt2TJ.0.2i.yzEkv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16684 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Free Energy list in Portuguese I just want to inform you that we have a Free Energy discussion list for those who speak portuguese language. It is at : http://www.egroups.com/group/FreeEnergy-BR Thanks, Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br ------------------------------------------- Get paid to surf the WEB ! Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet ! http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608 ------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 8 18:28:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA17726; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 18:27:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 18:27:27 -0700 Message-ID: <39B99397.96212225@csrlink.net> Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 21:34:15 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SPPLX1.0.mK4._7Pkv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16685 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: new turbine motor which will run on H2 http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTIndex.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 8 20:52:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30899; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 20:51:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 20:51:19 -0700 Message-ID: <39B9B551.CB466DB0@csrlink.net> Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 23:58:09 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8Mp121.0.VY7.tERkv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16686 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: paper on biocatalysis http://www.sci.kcn.ru/kib/biocatalit.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 8 21:09:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA05154; Fri, 8 Sep 2000 21:09:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 21:09:00 -0700 Message-ID: <39B9B996.4F8C929E@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 00:16:22 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3HJ132.0.FG1.SVRkv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16687 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: HYDROGEN PRODUCTION BASED UPON REFORMING HYDROCARBONS USING A NON-EQUILIBRIUM HYDROGEN PRODUCTION BASED UPON REFORMING HYDROCARBONS USING A NON-EQUILIBRIUM PLASMA AS A CATALYST Ozlem Mutaf-Yardimci, Alexei V. Saveliev, Mario Sobacchi, Alexander A. Fridman* and Lawrence A. Kennedy* Sponsors: National Science Foundation, Texaco, Dupont, Kodak The production of hydrogen is identified as one of the areas of major interest to many industries including: petroleum refining, gas industry, energy systems, combustion systems, metallurgy, and chemical industries.. Steam-methane reforming, autothermal reforming and thermal partial oxidation are some of the competing technologies used to produce H2 . The current normal process is based on surface catalytic reaction and carried out in large gas reformers utilizing packed bed reactors. There are some major drawbacks of the reformers used in these processes which are associated with the chemical catalysts. Some of these drawbacks are: environmental pollution associated with the processes of their production, recovery and especially disposal of used catalyst; low utilization of available catalyst surface, large size and high capital cost, short service life, high and non-uniform wall temperatures, soot formation (in thermal partial oxidation reforming), etc. These drawbacks are inherent in the existing technologies which are based on packed bed catalytic reactors. In an approach to reduce the environmental costs, low utilization of available catalyst surface, large size and high capital cost, short service life, etc, we are proposing a novel reformer concept which will use no conventional catalyst but rather, will utilize the catalytic properties of non-equilibrium plasma for the reforming process. From:http://www.me.uic.edu/research/labs/kennedy/research_projs.htm MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 9 18:52:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA25456; Sat, 9 Sep 2000 18:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 18:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001d01c01ac8$8a7e7aa0$1c3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 21:42:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C01AA6.E7FD3BC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"nnL0_.0.WD6.eZkkv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16688 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Tribo-gravity update This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C01AA6.E7FD3BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen; A quick update on tribo-gravitic material testing. Full report is = being written as I go, and will eventually appear on the Avalon website. 1. I have tested more granular and powdered materials with my = "standard" arrangement discussed last time. (ultrasonic cleaner, sealed = test tube, analytical balance. Al2O3 still the most reliable material, = generally with loss/recovery values of 2 to 5 milligrams, for a total = mass weight of about 21 grams (including test tube and stopper). = Another possible candidate was crushed limestone. (2 to 3 mg) 2. On two occasions, got dramatic weight loss / recovery values of 12 = milligrams by using -60+102 mesh granulated tellurium (Te). However, I = need to re-run this more before making a final pronouncement. Tellurium = is a strange element anyway. Look at it's position on the periodic = table. It's heavier than its number would designate that it should be. 3. Several powdered metals were tried - titanium, zinc, tin. Tin = granules appeared to be similar in effect to the alumina, but then I = could not reproduce it again. The other metals seemed dead to the = effect. 4. I made a small aluminum foil grounding "condom" for the test tube to = slip into whilst weighing, so that any charges would be drained off to = the grounded balance pan. This did NOT affect values of weight loss / = recovery that I could tell. HOWEVER>>> 5. After running the powdered metal runs, I re-ran the alumina again, = and only got about 1 mg effect. However, I noticed that the ultrasonic = action had impacted metal into the inside glass wall of the test tube, = making it conductive with residue. I pitched that test tube, used a = fresh one, and got original values again. Thus it would seem that the = inner wall of the shaking or vibration vessel (in contact with the media = used) does need to be insulating! This points back to an electrostatic = mechanism, but not one external to the vessel necessarily. 6. I have not begun to explore frequency dependence. That will be a = whole different apparatus. However, the effect is seemingly directly = related to the total amount of vibratory action you can induce in the = media. Best results were found when the alumina filled test tube was = suspended at a "sweet" spot in the ultrasonic bath, where the powder = inside the tube really got moving around! I would suspect that for real = serious numbers of weight change, one would need to pump the media = directly, and basically fluidize it with acoustic energy. 7. Tried one of the other claims from Brown's original disclosure. I = took a 6 inch long by 3/8 inch OD, 1/4 inch ID piece of mullite = (alumino-silicate) tubing, and ran it against an alumina coated belt = sander for 3 minutes. Obviously, some of the tube material was ground = away, as pure Al2O3 is the harder material. I then took the sanded tube = and put it on the balance, and recorded it's weight. Within 15 minutes, = it had re-gained about 2 mg of weight, thus indicating that the overall = bulk must have lost a small portion of weight, (in addition to the = physical loss by grinding) Anyway, this suggests that Brown seems to be = essentially correct in observation, regardless of whether an artifact = will eventually be found to explain it all! More to come, as lunch hours and Saturdays permit... NR ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C01AA6.E7FD3BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gentlemen;
 
   A quick update on = tribo-gravitic=20 material testing.  Full report is being written as I go, and will=20 eventually appear on the Avalon website.
 
1.  I have tested more granular = and powdered=20 materials with my "standard" arrangement discussed last time. = (ultrasonic=20 cleaner, sealed test tube, analytical balance.  Al2O3 still the = most=20 reliable material, generally with loss/recovery values of 2 to 5=20 milligrams, for a total mass weight of about 21 grams (including test = tube and=20 stopper).  Another possible candidate was crushed limestone. (2 to = 3=20 mg)
 
2.  On two occasions, got dramatic = weight loss=20 / recovery values of 12 milligrams by using -60+102 mesh granulated = tellurium=20 (Te).  However, I need to re-run this more before making a final=20 pronouncement.  Tellurium is a strange element anyway.  Look = at it's=20 position on the periodic table.  It's heavier than its number would = designate that it should be.
 
3.  Several powdered metals were = tried -=20 titanium, zinc, tin.  Tin granules appeared to be similar in effect = to the=20 alumina, but then I could not reproduce it again.  The other metals = seemed=20 dead to the effect.
 
4.  I made a small aluminum foil = grounding=20 "condom" for the test tube to slip into whilst weighing, so that any = charges=20 would be drained off to the grounded balance pan.  This did NOT = affect=20 values of weight loss / recovery that I could tell. =20 HOWEVER>>>
 
5.  After running the powdered = metal runs, I=20 re-ran the alumina again, and only got about 1 mg effect.  However, = I=20 noticed that the ultrasonic action had impacted metal into the inside = glass wall=20 of the test tube, making it conductive with residue.  I pitched = that test=20 tube, used a fresh one, and got original values again.  Thus it = would seem=20 that the inner wall of the shaking or vibration vessel (in contact with = the=20 media used) does need to be insulating!  This points back to an=20 electrostatic mechanism, but not one external to the vessel=20 necessarily.
 
6.  I have not begun to explore = frequency=20 dependence.  That will be a whole different apparatus.  = However, the=20 effect is seemingly directly related to the total amount of vibratory = action you=20 can induce in the media.  Best results were found when the alumina = filled=20 test tube was suspended at a "sweet" spot in the ultrasonic bath, where = the=20 powder inside the tube really got moving around!  I would suspect = that for=20 real serious numbers of weight change, one would need to pump the media=20 directly, and basically fluidize it with acoustic energy.
 
7.  Tried one of the other claims = from Brown's=20 original disclosure.  I took a 6 inch long by 3/8 inch OD, 1/4 inch = ID=20 piece of mullite (alumino-silicate) tubing, and ran it against an = alumina coated=20 belt sander for 3 minutes.  Obviously, some of the tube material = was ground=20 away, as pure Al2O3 is the harder material.  I then took the sanded = tube=20 and put it on the balance, and recorded it's weight.  Within 15 = minutes, it=20 had re-gained about 2 mg of weight, thus indicating that the overall = bulk must=20 have lost a small portion of weight, (in addition to the physical loss = by=20 grinding)  Anyway, this suggests that Brown seems to be essentially = correct=20 in observation, regardless of whether an artifact will eventually be = found to=20 explain it all!
 
More to come, as lunch hours and = Saturdays=20 permit...
 
NR
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C01AA6.E7FD3BC0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 9 19:21:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA19451; Sat, 9 Sep 2000 19:21:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 19:21:05 -0700 Message-ID: <39BAF1C6.A67D24C1@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 22:28:22 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"D8c811.0.el4.H0lkv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16689 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Probably a silly thought HI All, I am only asking this because I know nothing about it. Has anyone ever done any research on the effects of radioactive materials on water? What about water with an electrolyte? I mean, uranium for example, is constantly putting out charged particles and if it was in water then these particles might transfer enough energy to the water molecules to separate them into H2 and O2. Maybe the ionizing effects of an electrolyte would enable this. Is that why they have to use the more stable Deuterium version of water when making nukes? I may be way off base with this idea, I honestly don't know but if anyone has any info I would be interested. MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 9 19:23:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20828; Sat, 9 Sep 2000 19:23:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 19:23:21 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: new turbine motor which will run on H2 Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 13:23:22 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <39B99397.96212225@csrlink.net> In-Reply-To: <39B99397.96212225@csrlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA20806 Resent-Message-ID: <"DOjYH.0.L55.O2lkv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16690 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Fri, 08 Sep 2000 21:34:15 -0400: >http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTIndex.html If you listen to the audio of this engine running, it sounds to me as though it's about to fall apart. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 9 19:33:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA24843; Sat, 9 Sep 2000 19:32:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 19:32:39 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Probably a silly thought Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 13:32:38 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <120mrsg0tp48r3tmbo03agm5nan9pqgjha@4ax.com> References: <39BAF1C6.A67D24C1@csrlink.net> In-Reply-To: <39BAF1C6.A67D24C1@csrlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA24815 Resent-Message-ID: <"rvVd43.0.146.3Blkv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16691 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Sat, 09 Sep 2000 22:28:22 -0400: [snip] >HI All, > I am only asking this because I know nothing about it. Has anyone >ever done any research on the effects of radioactive materials on water? It's called radiolysis, and has been experimented with since the early days of the discovery of radiation. You might also want to talk to Bruce Perreault about it. He has some interesting ideas. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 9 20:04:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA32287; Sat, 9 Sep 2000 20:03:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 20:03:34 -0700 Message-ID: <39BAFBC2.339C927C@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 23:10:58 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Probably a silly thought References: <39BAF1C6.A67D24C1@csrlink.net> <120mrsg0tp48r3tmbo03agm5nan9pqgjha@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"T7ZOc3.0.Nu7.5elkv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16692 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Oh ok, thanks Robin. By the way, I have wondered what you meant by this for a while now; >It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do > to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. What exactly IS the "Better Way"? MJ Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Sat, 09 Sep 2000 22:28:22 -0400: > [snip] > It's called radiolysis, and has been experimented with since the early days > of the discovery of radiation. > You might also want to talk to Bruce Perreault about it. He has some > interesting ideas. > [snip] > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 9 21:09:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA11182; Sat, 9 Sep 2000 21:00:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 21:00:16 -0700 Message-ID: <39BB08E0.31DF4F0C@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 00:06:56 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9IHe02.0.Vk2.GTmkv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16693 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Solar H2 Project in Germany link http://www.solarhydrogen.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 10 01:19:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA17446; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 01:18:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 01:18:45 -0700 Message-ID: <39BB459E.D0F579CA@csrlink.net> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 04:26:06 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6AdzM3.0.BG4.ZFqkv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16694 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: new MJ white paper http://members.nbci.com/enki_12.1/epbimages/simpledevice.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 10 02:10:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA22557; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 02:10:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 02:10:01 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001d01c01ac8$8a7e7aa0$1c3dee3f@default> References: <001d01c01ac8$8a7e7aa0$1c3dee3f@default> Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 23:09:54 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity update Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"1byR23.0.MW5.f_qkv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16695 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Gentlemen; A quick update on tribo-gravitic material testing. Full report is being written as I go, and will eventually appear on the Avalon website. Thanks for the update, Nick. Can you think of a way to amplify the effect via centrifuge (I'm trying)? I mean, where a difference in mass could be measured successfully? 100-G's would make your 3mg look like .3 grams, with your 21g tube going to around a pound. That would KILL any doubt that the effect was simply pure electrostatics. There's obviously an electrostatic connection, but seeing a .3 gram change - now that's mass! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 10 04:34:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA02420; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 04:33:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 04:33:35 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 07:33:29 -0400 Message-Id: <200009101133.HAA26966@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity update Resent-Message-ID: <"CScGE2.0.jb.F6tkv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16696 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Nick, Thanks for the update. This suggestion is in the interest of science, and not a criticism of your work, which I find fascinating. Similar experiments using widely differing approaches have been done on the Vortex Group by some of the members recently. One of the problems that we have seen however, with some of these types of experiments is the effect of electrostatics on the measuring instruments themselves. My questions are as follows: Are you using a lab type, electrical scale? What is the rated accuracy of the scale? If it is an electric scale, is there a strain gauge type of device in it? Thanks for keeping us posted, and thanks in advance for any answers. PS The revelation about the weight of Tellurium is especially interesting, and just as a suggestion, perhaps the word "sheath" would be a good substitute for the word "condom" in your more official reports. ;) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 10 05:07:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA06579; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 05:07:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 05:07:17 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 12:06:35 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [FG]: Probably a silly thought X-Sender-Ip: 213.40.24.32 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_mv5Z3.0.ic1.rbtkv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16697 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Deuterium is used for nukes because it has neutrons in it - requisite for fusion......... James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 10 06:05:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA14394; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 06:05:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 06:05:09 -0700 Message-ID: <007601c01b27$33cfba20$09ff08d0@default> From: "Larry Canada" To: "freenrg-l" Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 06:59:49 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0071_01C01AF4.B612C640" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"cD2lC3.0.gW3.5Sukv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16698 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Nick Reiter's Tribo-gravity update This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C01AF4.B612C640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good work. =20 You said "...the ultrasonic action had impacted metal into the inside = glass wall of the test tube,..". If this should happen again, you might = weigh the amount of impacted material, subtract it from the beginning = quantity, and compare the percentage to the percentage of lessened = weight reduction. This would correlate to your observation that "..the = effect is seemingly directly related to the total amount of vibratory = action you can induce in the media." =20 I.E. less media, less cumulative effect=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C01AF4.B612C640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good work.  
 
You said "...the ultrasonic action = had=20 impacted metal into the inside glass wall of the test tube,..".  If = this=20 should happen again, you might weigh the amount of impacted=20 material, subtract it from the beginning quantity, and compare the=20 percentage to the percentage of lessened weight reduction.   = This=20 would correlate to your observation that "..the effect=20 is seemingly directly related to the total amount of vibratory action = you can=20 induce in the media." 
 
I.E. less media, less cumulative = effect 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C01AF4.B612C640-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 10 06:20:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA01266; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 06:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 06:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001b01c01b28$da5020a0$563dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <001d01c01ac8$8a7e7aa0$1c3dee3f@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity update Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 09:13:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"y0-4W2.0.gJ.0gukv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16699 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Can you think of a way to amplify the effect via centrifuge (I'm > trying)? I mean, where a difference in mass could be measured > successfully? 100-G's would make your 3mg look like .3 grams, with > your 21g tube going to around a pound. That would KILL any doubt that > the effect was simply pure electrostatics. There's obviously an > electrostatic connection, but seeing a .3 gram change - now that's > mass! ******* Now thats an interesting idea. One would need to assure that even in the centrifuged state, the granular or powdered material could continue to vibrate and friction. That would imply that the rotating vessel would have the ability to oscillate or transmit vibratory energy from an oscillator. Certainly a very novel experiment! My next steps are: 1. Try to confirm if Te is indeed a better candidate than Al2O3. 2. Use a different flask that will have a high powered PZT mounted on it - to get as much acoustic energy into the media as possible - to the point of fluidizing if possible. Sorta like an SL vessel. 3. Start exploring the relationship to frequency. I have the equipment, just need the opportunity to set it up in the lab near the analytical balance. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 10 06:38:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02007; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 06:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 06:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002101c01b2b$5f3004a0$563dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <200009101133.HAA26966@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity update Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 09:31:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"dqHrn1.0.CV.uwukv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16700 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > Thanks for the update. This suggestion is in the interest of science, and > not a criticism of your work, which I find fascinating. Similar experiments > using widely differing approaches have been done on the Vortex Group by some > of the members recently. ******** All critique is welcomed. What is the Vortex Group? Are there any on-line descriptions of experiments? One of the problems that we have seen however, > with some of these types of experiments is the effect of electrostatics on > the measuring instruments themselves. My questions are as follows: > > Are you using a lab type, electrical scale? ********* It is an older (1970s) analog laboratory balance. Right off the bat, I don't have the make or model number handy. I can get that when I go back to work this week. No electronics, other than the illuminator for the scale. It has a capacity of 200 grams. It is a single stainless steel pan, with manual weight unit adjustment knobs at the side. The pan is inside the case of the unit, with access provided through a sliding glass door. The useful resolution is 1 mg, although fractional mg indications may be viewed, since it is analog. I have confirmed that the balance pan is common to case and electrical ground. (There is a case ground connection via the power cord for the illuminator) It is old fashioned laboratory goodness. We have the unit calibrated yearly. During the week, it's primary function is the weighing out of small amounts of chemicals. > PS The revelation about the weight of Tellurium is especially interesting, > and just as a suggestion, perhaps the word "sheath" would be a good > substitute for the word "condom" in your more official reports. ;) ******** Oh, I know. Just a light hearted description, arising from too many years in the lab. Sorry if anyone out there took offense. And Tellurium. I sometimes forget how esoteric it seems to most folks, but since it is one of the primary materials I use in photovoltaics, I've gotten acclimated to having hundreds of pounds of it lying around. Even so, it is a fascinating element, to me, giving bismuth a run for the money in the "weird gee whiz" department. Thanks, Michael, for all the input. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 10 10:34:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA26815; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 10:27:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 10:27:11 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 13:26:41 -0400 Message-Id: <200009101726.NAA20944@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity update Resent-Message-ID: <"iUIBl3.0.qY6.kHykv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16701 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nick writes: >******** All critique is welcomed. What is the Vortex Group? Are there >any on-line descriptions of experiments? Ahoy there, The Vortex Group was the uncondomed progenitor of this group.;) It started out as a discussion group to study cavitation devices, then moved to Cold Fusion devices, and has run the gamut pretty much since then from weird EM, and FE to Aunty Grav devices, and devices to numerous to mention. The Vortex Group also parented Vortexb and Vortexc, but we don't talk about those babies much anymore.;) The most recent efforts in the Vortex Group by Fred Sparber (fjsparber@earthlink.net) have been to see if there is a frequency correlation between HF pulsed EM and Agrav, and a pendulum approach by Kyle R. Mcallister (stk@sunherald.infi.net) was reported that gave weird results, as well. Some of the posters over there are over here too, but not all, by any means. The reason I brought up the electrostatic part was that during the investigation of one of the devices involving a coil in motion, an anomolously high voltage fluctuation (three orders of magnitude) was found, leading us to think that it might be useful as a cheap accelerometer if nothing else. We still don't know why the voltage fluctuates as much as it does, but it does seem to happen all the time. Scott Little and a couple of others also did a replication of JLN's pulsed plasma discharge panel, and experienced the same type of really goofy meter readings, even with shielding. "Whatever It Is" is crawling through everything, making accurate measurements and interpretation a real bear. >********* It is an older (1970s) analog laboratory balance. Right off the >bat, I don't have the make or model number handy. I can get that when I go >back to work this week. >No electronics, other than the illuminator for the scale. It has a capacity >of 200 grams. It is a single stainless steel pan, with manual weight unit >adjustment knobs at the side. The pan is inside the case of the unit, with >access provided through a sliding glass door. The useful resolution is 1 >mg, although fractional mg indications may be viewed, since it is analog. I >have confirmed that the balance pan is common to case and electrical ground. >(There is a case ground connection via the power cord for the illuminator) > It is old fashioned laboratory goodness. We have the unit calibrated >yearly. During the week, it's primary function is the weighing out of small >amounts of chemicals. That sounds excellent, and solves that problem to my satisfaction. I don't know of any way to interfere with that type of scale, although anything is possible, I suppose. In my work with SL cavitation, I didn't use a PZ driver, instead I used a rotary cavitator similar to the one Jim Griggs worked on. I had quite a few unexpected electrical events occur that cost me a lot of money in damaged equipment, some of which was not on the same circuit and other stuff wasn't even turned on. Griggs did too, from the reports that I've read. The actual devices that I made were made of dielectric materials, but I also experienced magnetism of the nuts and bolts that held them together after I ran them. Then it went away after a time. It didn't make any sense to me at all, and we were all focused on the calorimetry of the phenomenon at the time, so we shrugged off the weird electrical happenings. I think the size of your experiment might be more safe, less complicated and therefore more elegant. It may shed some light on the SL experimental results as well. Gary Hawkins (ghawk@eskimo.com) did some sonic driven, fluidized bed experiments that showed definite, obvious, large-scale, self organizing behavior in the granules. This was all done at low power and low frequencies as well. On a flat surface mounted to a speaker, a pile of sand or whatever would form itself into toroidal shaped vortices like smoke rings depending on the driving frequencies, and some particles that were of a different size would be shaped together by the overall movement and made to stand upright in a clump from the vibration. Sometimes we have a tendency to introduce complexity to a "first principles" type of experiment, either in the design itself, or in the instrumentation that can make the phenomenon itself more difficult to understand. Your approach looks pretty pretty well pared down. All the best, Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 10 11:26:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA14128; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000701c01b52$ca535120$7b3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <200009101726.NAA20944@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity update Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:13:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"Xqpg.0.bS3.P3zkv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16702 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ****See Comments Below... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael T Huffman" To: Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity update > The reason I brought up the electrostatic part was that during the > investigation of one of the devices involving a coil in motion, an > anomolously high voltage fluctuation (three orders of magnitude) was found, > leading us to think that it might be useful as a cheap accelerometer if > nothing else. We still don't know why the voltage fluctuates as much as it > does, but it does seem to happen all the time. Scott Little and a couple of > others also did a replication of JLN's pulsed plasma discharge panel, and > experienced the same type of really goofy meter readings, even with > shielding. "Whatever It Is" is crawling through everything, making accurate > measurements and interpretation a real bear. ******** Velly strange. One wonders what might be incured if the media vibrated were superconductive, or perhaps doped with ferromagnetic materials. About a year ago, I was trying a "gravity shield" type set-up using YBCO powder in a roundbottom flask with LN2. I had a PZT mounted to the flask bottom for vibrating the powder. The cold temperature kept cracking the attaching epoxy, however, so I never was able to give it a fair shake. Maybe I ought to revisit that whole idea from this new perspective. On the other hand, if powdered metals gave no results, perhaps superconductive powder wouldn't give any either. > I had quite a few unexpected electrical events occur that cost > me a lot of money in damaged equipment, some of which was not on the same > circuit and other stuff wasn't even turned on. Griggs did too, from the > reports that I've read. The actual devices that I made were made of > dielectric materials, but I also experienced magnetism of the nuts and bolts > that held them together after I ran them. Then it went away after a time. > It didn't make any sense to me at all, and we were all focused on the > calorimetry of the phenomenon at the time, so we shrugged off the weird > electrical happenings. ****** I need to pop back onto your website and re-read what you've got there. > > I think the size of your experiment might be more safe, less complicated > and therefore more elegant. It may shed some light on the SL experimental > results as well. Gary Hawkins (ghawk@eskimo.com) did some sonic driven, > fluidized bed experiments that showed definite, obvious, large-scale, self > organizing behavior in the granules. This was all done at low power and low > frequencies as well. On a flat surface mounted to a speaker, a pile of sand > or whatever would form itself into toroidal shaped vortices like smoke rings > depending on the driving frequencies, and some particles that were of a > different size would be shaped together by the overall movement and made to > stand upright in a clump from the vibration. *********** In Hans Jennie's "Cymatics" I believe there was an account of some of the fluids being vibrated that would rise up as you describe, but then go further, and form an ALMOST completely detached spherical orb or blob that would sort of levitate at the center. Amazing book. Would love to lay hands on a copy again. > > Sometimes we have a tendency to introduce complexity to a "first principles" > type of experiment, either in the design itself, or in the instrumentation > that can make the phenomenon itself more difficult to understand. Your > approach looks pretty pretty well pared down. ************ Thanks. Sometimes I tend to overdo the minimalist approach, but then again, if reproducible results are seen, it proves the robust nature of a principle all the more. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 10 12:06:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA17484; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:58:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:58:49 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001b01c01b28$da5020a0$563dee3f@default> References: <001d01c01ac8$8a7e7aa0$1c3dee3f@default> <001b01c01b28$da5020a0$563dee3f@default> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 08:58:10 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity update Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"69znq.0.0H4.cdzkv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16703 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nick - At 9:13 AM -0400 9/10/00, Nick Reiter wrote: >That would imply that the rotating vessel would >have the ability to oscillate or transmit vibratory energy from an >oscillator. It would be complicated enough just to weigh the .3 grams on a rapidly rotating platform of some type. I was thinking that you'd put the sample in right after agitation before the weight returned. Was thinking something along the lines of a centrifuge arm that's actually a balance using a second weight rather than just a simple arm. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 10 12:30:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA28332; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 12:23:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 12:23:33 -0700 Message-ID: <00ac01c01b5d$754f1780$8002a8c0@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <39BB459E.D0F579CA@csrlink.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: new MJ white paper Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 15:29:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"Zi37y3.0.Xw6.r-zkv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16704 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a bad URL address. I can not get to it even the .com front portion Sam Garza ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Johnston To: Michael S. Johnston Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 4:26 AM Subject: [FG]: new MJ white paper > http://members.nbci.com/enki_12.1/epbimages/simpledevice.htm > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 10 21:31:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA23833; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:22:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:22:17 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <31.9fbf690.26edb7b2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:21:06 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"52OcL2.0.Aq5.vt5lv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16705 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Laf. Gr. motor preliminary tests PERFECT! Hello all, The motor is wired. Tests showed the magnet forces with coils turned on were equal but opposite, no torque, voltage stable, current stable! Will try to put wiring diagram on web tonight if I can stay awake. Will have digital camera tomorrow to take many shots of motor and put on web. Second test is to insert ferrite and timing switch and still get "flat line" thru rotation starting from magnet coil line up thru 90 degree exit rotation. The circuit is closed as the magnets line up perfect with the coils. Before that magnets are attracted to ferrite and transmit work to shaft. Everything is going perfect at this stage. Complicated control circuit is not going to be required. Regards, Butch LaFonte http://members.a ol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 02:02:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA07959; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 02:01:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 02:01:43 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Probably a silly thought Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:02:03 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <39BAF1C6.A67D24C1@csrlink.net> <120mrsg0tp48r3tmbo03agm5nan9pqgjha@4ax.com> <39BAFBC2.339C927C@csrlink.net> In-Reply-To: <39BAFBC2.339C927C@csrlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id CAA07941 Resent-Message-ID: <"XLD-e1.0.Gy1.sz9lv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16706 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Sat, 09 Sep 2000 23:10:58 -0400: >Oh ok, thanks Robin. By the way, I have wondered what you meant by this >for a while now; >>It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do >> to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. >What exactly IS the "Better Way"? >MJ [snip] It isn't "the" better way, it's "a" better way. It differs from occasion to occasion. What I'm saying is that criticism alone isn't enough. One needs to provide a constructive alternative at the same time, otherwise one's criticism will just be ignored. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 06:19:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA24614; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 06:19:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 06:19:23 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01c01bf3$cc7079a0$8002a8c0@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <31.9fbf690.26edb7b2@aol.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Laf. Gr. motor preliminary tests PERFECT! Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:25:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"l6B3n2.0.U06.QlDlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16707 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ALRIGHT, GREAT, SLAPS ON THE BACK, COOL I am IMPRESSED Sam Garza ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 12:21 AM Subject: [FG]: Laf. Gr. motor preliminary tests PERFECT! > Hello all, > The motor is wired. Tests showed the magnet forces with coils turned on were > equal but opposite, no torque, voltage stable, current stable! Will try to > put wiring diagram on web tonight if I can stay awake. Will have digital > camera tomorrow to take many shots of motor and put on web. Second test is to > insert ferrite and timing switch and still get "flat line" thru rotation > starting from magnet coil line up thru 90 degree exit rotation. The circuit > is closed as the magnets line up perfect with the coils. Before that magnets > are attracted to ferrite and transmit work to shaft. Everything is going > perfect at this stage. Complicated control circuit is not going to be > required. > Regards, > Butch LaFonte > http://members.a > ol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 08:55:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA28320; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 08:54:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 08:54:40 -0700 From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, interact@keelynet.com, energy21@listbot.com, nuenergy@egroups.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:56:43 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Message-ID: <39BCC87B.28467.3F65EB8@localhost> Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA25847 Resent-Message-ID: <"MhI6O.0.Fw6.01Glv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16708 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: 23000+ Scientific papers Hours of fun Date sent: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:57:36 +1200 From: Russell McMahon Subject: 23000+ Scientific papers Hours of fun· Lawrence Livermore Laboratories (the "Star Wars" people) online library. Over 23,000 declassified papers. A truly vast range of scientific papers ranging from Space Shuttle to Rocketry to Rocks, earthquake analysis, a new mode of nuclear fission, Fel Wigglers (look it up) to Disk Galaxies to ??? http://www.llnl.gov/tid/lof/ You can search by categories or, if you want almost ALL the papers in order :-) enter a * the tile field, press enter, wait a minute or two and you'll then be able to quickly page through the summaries, 10 per page (all 2000+ pages of them). This has got to be one of the most wideranging sources of scientific information available. Does have some degree of leaning towards weapons of destruction but not nearly so much as may be expected. ------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 09:26:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06715; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:25:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:25:33 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000911110244.00964e50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:25:51 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Probably a silly thought In-Reply-To: References: <39BAFBC2.339C927C@csrlink.net> <39BAF1C6.A67D24C1@csrlink.net> <120mrsg0tp48r3tmbo03agm5nan9pqgjha@4ax.com> <39BAFBC2.339C927C@csrlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"GMhXx1.0.Ge1.xTGlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16709 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Criticism This is an important part of the entire personal integrity package... How one offers criticism is important. just as important as how one receives it. When offering negative criticism you should explain as many reasons why as possible. You should also offer alternatives if possible. If there are any good things to say it is polite to take some time for that also. When you have done your best then it is up to the receiver to accept your comments gracefully. When receiving criticism you should thank the critic (even if you think he is a jerk). A critical suggestion is always an offering to learn and deserves a polite response. The critic offers information that you may use to improve yourself. Check that information out and if it is good apply it. At 08:02 PM 9/11/00 +1000, you wrote: >In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Sat, 09 Sep 2000 23:10:58 -0400: > > >Oh ok, thanks Robin. By the way, I have wondered what you meant by this > >for a while now; > >>It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do > >> to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. > >What exactly IS the "Better Way"? > >MJ >[snip] >It isn't "the" better way, it's "a" better way. It differs from occasion to >occasion. >What I'm saying is that criticism alone isn't enough. One needs to provide a >constructive alternative at the same time, otherwise one's criticism will >just be ignored. > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > >It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do >to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 10:14:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA27359; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:14:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:14:06 -0700 Message-ID: <39BD14A0.BDD8EDDA@csrlink.net> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 13:21:36 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Probably a silly thought References: <39BAF1C6.A67D24C1@csrlink.net> <120mrsg0tp48r3tmbo03agm5nan9pqgjha@4ax.com> <39BAFBC2.339C927C@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Fdzjw2.0.Oh6.UBHlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16710 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com oh, ok. Works for me. MJ Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Sat, 09 Sep 2000 23:10:58 -0400: > > >Oh ok, thanks Robin. By the way, I have wondered what you meant by this > >for a while now; > >>It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do > >> to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. > >What exactly IS the "Better Way"? > >MJ > [snip] > It isn't "the" better way, it's "a" better way. It differs from occasion to > occasion. > What I'm saying is that criticism alone isn't enough. One needs to provide a > constructive alternative at the same time, otherwise one's criticism will > just be ignored. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do > to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 11:51:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA30528; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:49:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:49:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:49:13 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: Nick Reiter cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity update In-Reply-To: <001b01c01b28$da5020a0$563dee3f@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Bmlg31.0.uS7.raIlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16711 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I'm quite impressed that the phenomenon still appears when the vial is inside a metal shield. If the gravity effect has anything to do with powder-impact electrostatics, then it is caused by opposite charges developing on the powder and on the inside glass surface. As you mentioned, if the glass becomes coated with powder, then that coating forms a barrier which prevents further impacts and the effect stops occurring. Powdered glass might not give any result because the opposite charges only appear when dissimilar materials touch together. A metal container would give a very tiny effect, but if the inner surface of the metal was coated with an insulating material, the powder could charge it by impact and an effect might appear. Also, humidity lets the separated charges drain away. Try injecting a very tiny amount of water into your powder and let it spread throughout. That might kill the tribograv effect in all circumstances. If the glass vial and the powder were baked dry and then sealed before the experiment, the separated charges would persist for lots longer. Maybe this would extend the time of the electrograv effect. If it made the effect last for hours, it would be inconvenient for testing, no? Try using a non-glass container. Glass and nylon are on the (+) end of the triboelectric series, while teflon, PVC, and PE plastics are on the other end. In theory, powdered glass in a teflon ampule would give a very strong electrostatic charge separation. Maybe it would also give a strong tribograv effect too. Another possible artifact: I've heard that soda glass adsorbs water from the air and develops a surface layer of sodium silicate solution. Supposedly this is why glass fresh from the kiln is not slippery. If glass is immersed in water, then blotted totally dry and weighed, might there be an invisible layer of wet contamination on the surface? Over many minutes the water would evaporate and the weight would go down. Does an EMPTY tube ever produce any tribo-gravity? Or if the environment inside your milligram lab scales was raised to 100% humidity with a jar of water and a cloth wick, would it eliminate evaporation and stop the observed decrease in weight? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 12:03:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA03427; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:02:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:02:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:02:34 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <001b01c01b28$da5020a0$563dee3f@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TCFtW2.0.Jr.CnIlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16712 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Tribo-gravity w/simple equipment? DOH! It just occurred to me that I have a whole collection of ultrasound generators. The underwater ultrasound beam from a "cool mist" ultrasonic humidifier can melt plastic. Tonight I'll have to stick some powdered sugar in a glass vial and see if the powder is stirred. It might not move, since the beam is around 1.2MHZ. Ultrasonic fogger $30 http://www.mainlandmart.com/foggers.html If ultrasonic humidifiers can vibrate the powder, maybe a self-contained powder/vibrator device is possible. It's easy to put a humidifier's transducer on extended leads. Couple it to a container of powder, then weigh the whole assembly with the power applied. Hey, maybe ultrasound is not even required!!!! Get a small piezo beeper or a headphones-transducer, put it in a bottle of powder, cover it with a grounded foil shield, then weigh the whole thing with power both on and off. For the "ELG-hat capacitor" experiment, JL Naudin built a styrofoam and razorblades balance which has power leads running to the mass being measured. Changing the vertical position of the fulcrum point will change the sensitivity. 20mg might be easily detectable by such a device, although air currents would become a problem. ELG balance for electrograv experiments http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/elgbalbld.htm JLN's Electrograv page http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/advprop.htm ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 13:34:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29856; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 13:28:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 13:28:34 -0700 Message-ID: <39BD4030.7060101@microtec.net> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:27:28 -0400 From: patrick tremblay User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; N; Win98; en-US; m14) Netscape6/6.0b1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Probably a silly thought References: <39BAF1C6.A67D24C1@csrlink.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020000050805080603050702" Resent-Message-ID: <"Op15h.0.PI7.m1Klv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16713 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --------------020000050805080603050702 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI, I think the best way to separate water molecules with radioactive materials would be thermolysis instead of electrolysis. that is, using a nuclear reactor to produce oxygen and hydrogen by heating the water strong enough. Maybe it would be more efficient than making steam to turn turbines. Mike Johnston wrote: > > HI All, > I am only asking this because I know nothing about it. Has anyone > ever done any research on the effects of radioactive materials on water? > What about water with an electrolyte? I mean, uranium for example, is > constantly putting out charged particles and if it was in water then > these particles might transfer enough energy to the water molecules to > separate them into H2 and O2. Maybe the ionizing effects of an > electrolyte would enable this. Is that why they have to use the more > stable Deuterium version of water when making nukes? I may be way off > base with this idea, I honestly don't know but if anyone has any info I > would be interested. > MJ > > > > --------------020000050805080603050702 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI,

I think the best way to separate water molecules with radioactive materials would be thermolysis instead of electrolysis.

that is, using a nuclear reactor to produce oxygen and hydrogen by heating the water strong enough.

Maybe it would be more efficient than making steam to turn turbines.


Mike Johnston wrote:
HI All,
   I am only asking this because I know nothing about it. Has anyone
ever done any research on the effects of radioactive materials on water?
What about water with an electrolyte? I mean, uranium for example, is
constantly putting out charged particles and if it was in water then
these particles might transfer enough energy to the water molecules to
separate them into H2 and O2. Maybe the ionizing effects of an
electrolyte would enable this. Is that why they have to use the more
stable Deuterium version of water when making nukes? I may be way off
base with this idea, I honestly don't know but if anyone has any info I
would be interested.
MJ

--------------020000050805080603050702-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 15:05:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA28626; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:04:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:04:25 -0700 Message-ID: <39BD5576.F7008A07@harti.com> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:58:14 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Free Energy , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qMS-c3.0.1_6.eRLlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16714 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: New rotator article online ! Hi All, Dieter Bauer has done a great tremendous work on the Wuerth Power-Booster, here is his anouncement: There is a big new update of the article on the Wuerth - power - booster at the Overunity server http://www.overunity.com/over.htm . It can be found on the overunity theory page at http://www.overunity.com/theory.htm under the URL http://www.overunity.com/rotator/rotator2.htm The article contains a careful workout of the already known results. In recent version the overunity result was derived quite shortly and intuitively. Now, the derivation is quite systematic and lege artis. The article contains the answers on critics of the recent version. Additionally it points to further possibilities to improve the efficiency. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 17:11:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA02562; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:10:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:10:04 -0700 Message-ID: <20000912000926.29516.qmail@web3801.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:09:26 -0700 (PDT) From: micah lloyd To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"FR84k1.0.pd.RHNlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16715 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: ozone Hello has anyone heard of a way for a normal person to get indisputable proof of the ozone hole, weather it exists or not? goto www.msnbc.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 18:00:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA19236; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:59:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:59:10 -0700 Message-ID: <39BD8192.D319B7AB@csrlink.net> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:06:27 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8GTrD1.0.Ci4.U_Nlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16716 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: moved new paper to geocities page Hi All, I designed a simple little free energy device. I put a paper up over the weekend but it was having problems. I've switched my whole site over to the geocities server now so it should load ok at the url below. MJ http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/simpledevice.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 18:36:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA29944; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:35:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:35:44 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20000912000926.29516.qmail@web3801.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20000912000926.29516.qmail@web3801.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:35:34 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"3J1MY3.0.nJ7.lXOlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16717 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Knowing whether to trust a science story in the mass media is tricky business, isn't it. But for this to be all faked, there's have to be a large number of people in on it by this time, and surely someone would have come forward. Common sense then tells me that it's extremely likely that the ozone hole exists. However, the big question is what's causing it. THAT is very much in contention. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI >Hello has anyone heard of a way for a normal person to >get indisputable proof of the ozone hole, weather it >exists or not? goto www.msnbc.com > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! >http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 19:10:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA01427; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <007a01c01c5c$b89c64c0$9d3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity update Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:56:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"RcZ2V2.0.BM.QyOlv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16718 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Beaty" To: "Nick Reiter" Cc: Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity update > > I'm quite impressed that the phenomenon still appears when the vial is > inside a metal shield. ****** As am I, although the caveat is that I slip the tube into the sleeve before weighing. I did not have the sleeve on the outside during the acoustics, because I didnt want water to get trapped between the foil and the glass. Best way for me to test it completely is just to try the whole test sequence in an aluminum bottle or cigar tube. > > If the gravity effect has anything to do with powder-impact > electrostatics, then it is caused by opposite charges developing on the > powder and on the inside glass surface. As you mentioned, if the glass > becomes coated with powder, then that coating forms a barrier which > prevents further impacts and the effect stops occurring. Powdered glass > might not give any result because the opposite charges only appear when > dissimilar materials touch together. A metal container would give a very > tiny effect, but if the inner surface of the metal was coated with an > insulating material, the powder could charge it by impact and an effect > might appear. > > Also, humidity lets the separated charges drain away. Try injecting a > very tiny amount of water into your powder and let it spread throughout. ***** That one I will try! Good idea. > That might kill the tribograv effect in all circumstances. If the glass > vial and the powder were baked dry and then sealed before the experiment, > the separated charges would persist for lots longer. Maybe this would > extend the time of the electrograv effect. If it made the effect last for > hours, it would be inconvenient for testing, no? ******* That would be irritating. Good, but irritating. > > Try using a non-glass container. Glass and nylon are on the (+) end of > the triboelectric series, while teflon, PVC, and PE plastics are on the > other end. In theory, powdered glass in a teflon ampule would give a > very strong electrostatic charge separation. Maybe it would also give a > strong tribograv effect too. ******* Ahead of you there. I have switched over to a larger flat bottom polycarbonate bottle, of about 100ml volume, with a sealing lid. The effect seems to still be present, and in fact has scaled linearly with the overall mass used. For example, I was getting an average of 3 mg loss/gain with the test tube set-up at a total weight (Al2O3) of about 25 grams. In the plastic bottle, I can put about 100 grams of media and have been getting between 8 and 12 mg loss/gains. Spent some time with it today, in fact. HOWEVER- I find that the recovery time is now scaled up as well! With 107.566 grams of Al2O3 it was taking about a full hour to recover to the original weight. > > Over many minutes > the water would evaporate and the weight would go down. Does an EMPTY > tube ever produce any tribo-gravity? ******Dont know yet. One of many controls and tests to try. Or if the environment inside your > milligram lab scales was raised to 100% humidity with a jar of water and > a cloth wick, would it eliminate evaporation and stop the observed > decrease in weight? ******* Another good one, though maybe a little more iffy to try without verification by a humidity sensor or psychrometer. *******NEW TIDBIT- At the end of the day today, I tried a blend of several previously tested materials together in the large sized plastic bottle. With standard 1/2 hour ultrasonic treatment, I got one loss/recovery of 18mg. Start weight was 117.880g. My blend was: 2 parts by rough volume Al2O3 50 micron bead - 2 parts by rough volume Al2O3/SiO2 ceramic cement powder - 1 part by rough volume crushed limestone - 1 part by rough volume crushed granite. Sort of a "whole earth " blend. Thought was to get a number of different compounds gyrating against each other. Maybe I should have added some organic flocculant like powdered cellulose. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 19:25:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12447; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:24:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:24:31 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c01c60$ea2c16d0$d2793b8e@robone> From: "Rob Polley" To: References: <20000912000926.29516.qmail@web3801.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:26:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"q8sej1.0.O23.UFPlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16719 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I may be incorrect, but it is my understanding that the ozone in the ozone layer is created by the effect of cosmic radiation bombarding ordinary atmospheric oxygen. If this is the case, a reduced ozone layer would be indicative of a reduced level of high altitude oxygen. Makes sense that the oxygen levels in the atmosphere would be depleting considering the destruction of the forests, and the massive amounts on carbon monoxide we are pouring into the atmosphere. The need for pollution free energy sources may well be far more critical than any of us realize. Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Monteverde" To: Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone > Knowing whether to trust a science story in the mass media is tricky > business, isn't it. But for this to be all faked, there's have to be > a large number of people in on it by this time, and surely someone > would have come forward. Common sense then tells me that it's > extremely likely that the ozone hole exists. However, the big > question is what's causing it. THAT is very much in contention. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > >Hello has anyone heard of a way for a normal person to > >get indisputable proof of the ozone hole, weather it > >exists or not? goto www.msnbc.com > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > >http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 19:44:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA18520; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:43:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:43:30 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <007a01c01c5c$b89c64c0$9d3dee3f@default> References: <007a01c01c5c$b89c64c0$9d3dee3f@default> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:43:23 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity update Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"xH034.0.HX4.IXPlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16720 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill and Nick said: > That might kill the tribograv effect in all circumstances. If the glass > vial and the powder were baked dry and then sealed before the experiment, > the separated charges would persist for lots longer. Maybe this would > extend the time of the electrograv effect. If it made the effect last for > hours, it would be inconvenient for testing, no? >> ******* That would be irritating. Good, but irritating. But if the effect lasted longer but was weaker as well, then perhaps it's related to the slow *discharge* of separated charges and not just the simple presence of charges in the static sense. Slowing the discharge rate with drier materials might then lower the magnitude of the effect. I'm still thinking that it might be the transfer of charges that makes these 'antigravity' effects appear. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 22:57:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA10377; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:52:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:52:28 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 05:51:36 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <39c0c428.286729894@mail.midiowa.net> References: <20000912000926.29516.qmail@web3801.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA10356 Resent-Message-ID: <"zUMUi2.0.2Y2.RISlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16721 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:35:34 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Knowing whether to trust a science story in the mass media is tricky >business, isn't it. But for this to be all faked, there's have to be >a large number of people in on it by this time, and surely someone >would have come forward. Common sense then tells me that it's >extremely likely that the ozone hole exists. However, the big >question is what's causing it. THAT is very much in contention. And an even bigger question is ... is the ozone hole's size abnormal, or has the Earth experienced it many times over the past few million years? -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 11 23:00:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA11595; Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:55:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:55:05 -0700 From: dtmiller@midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 05:54:15 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@midiowa.net Message-ID: <39c1c46c.286798306@mail.midiowa.net> References: <20000912000926.29516.qmail@web3801.mail.yahoo.com> <001501c01c60$ea2c16d0$d2793b8e@robone> In-Reply-To: <001501c01c60$ea2c16d0$d2793b8e@robone> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA11572 Resent-Message-ID: <"ruZNG3.0._q2.vKSlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16722 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:26:53 -0600, "Rob Polley" wrote: >I may be incorrect, but it is my understanding that the ozone in the ozone >layer is created by the effect of cosmic radiation bombarding ordinary >atmospheric oxygen. If this is the case, a reduced ozone layer would be >indicative of a reduced level of high altitude oxygen. Makes sense that the >oxygen levels in the atmosphere would be depleting considering the >destruction of the forests, and the massive amounts on carbon monoxide we >are pouring into the atmosphere. Massive?? Compared to what? >The need for pollution free energy sources may well be far more critical >than any of us realize. I'm certainly in favor of pollution-free energy sources. But I rather doubt the size of the ozone hole (or the alleged greenhouse warming) is an abnormal occurrence for the Earth, and I also doubt humans have much of an effect on either (regardless of the hype furnished the media by people who make money from fear). -- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 12 08:02:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA17403; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:01:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:01:53 -0700 Message-ID: <39BE43D1.3D0CE37C@harti.com> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:55:13 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone holes via planes ! X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <20000912000926.29516.qmail@web3801.mail.yahoo.com> <001501c01c60$ea2c16d0$d2793b8e@robone> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Rcm752.0.lF4.VLalv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16723 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com It is also probably created by the many planes going each day across the northpole in about 10.000 Meter height. They bring the pollution from the kerosine burn pollutants directly up there ! So let us design Hydrogen powered planes or better free energy powered planes via electromotors. Regards, Stefan. Rob Polley schrieb: > > I may be incorrect, but it is my understanding that the ozone in the ozone > layer is created by the effect of cosmic radiation bombarding ordinary > atmospheric oxygen. If this is the case, a reduced ozone layer would be > indicative of a reduced level of high altitude oxygen. Makes sense that the > oxygen levels in the atmosphere would be depleting considering the > destruction of the forests, and the massive amounts on carbon monoxide we > are pouring into the atmosphere. > > The need for pollution free energy sources may well be far more critical > than any of us realize. > > Rob > -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 12 13:25:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA23811; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:23:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:23:38 -0700 Message-ID: <001701c01cf6$ef4ff0a0$d7d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:20:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"X89hY3.0.pp5.93flv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16724 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com That's interesting, isn't it? The way that works...I've always wanted to go to the North Pole to see if there was a big hole there too. Notice how very few people have been there, maybe there really is a big hole there... Yah, it's unlikely that there is a hole there, but the fact that most people haven't seen or experienced certain things like that makes me wonder what they're really like... -----Original Message----- From: micah lloyd To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Monday, September 11, 2000 8:15 PM Subject: [FG]: ozone >Hello has anyone heard of a way for a normal person to >get indisputable proof of the ozone hole, weather it >exists or not? goto www.msnbc.com > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! >http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 12 13:29:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26469; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:28:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:28:52 -0700 Message-ID: <002001c01cf7$a9a904a0$d7d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:25:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"h_XLf2.0.QT6.38flv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16725 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Oh, and another thing, "Cognito ergo sum"-Descartes. The only thing you can indisputably be sure of is your own existence, remember that. The world is how you perceive it. P.S.- Cognito ergo sum = I think, therefore I am -----Original Message----- From: Rick Monteverde To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, September 11, 2000 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone >Knowing whether to trust a science story in the mass media is tricky >business, isn't it. But for this to be all faked, there's have to be >a large number of people in on it by this time, and surely someone >would have come forward. Common sense then tells me that it's >extremely likely that the ozone hole exists. However, the big >question is what's causing it. THAT is very much in contention. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > >>Hello has anyone heard of a way for a normal person to >>get indisputable proof of the ozone hole, weather it >>exists or not? goto www.msnbc.com >> >>__________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! >>http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 12 16:12:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA17909; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:12:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:12:10 -0700 Message-ID: <001001c01d0e$7438c8c0$0364c8c8@mindspring> From: "John Lighton" To: References: <002001c01cf7$a9a904a0$d7d666ce@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:09:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"sNQ821.0.kN4.AXhlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16726 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Oh, and another thing, "Cognito ergo sum"-Descartes. The only thing you >can indisputably be sure of is your own existence, remember that. Actually "cogito ergo sum", I think therefore I am; "cognito" implies that "I understand therefore I am", on which basis the world would be effectively depopulated =:-] John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 12 16:30:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA23356; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:30:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:30:04 -0700 Message-ID: <39BEBE2B.973822C9@csrlink.net> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:37:15 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone References: <001701c01cf6$ef4ff0a0$d7d666ce@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"y3aaJ1.0._g5.vnhlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16727 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com nothing compares to seeing for yourself! MJ Chris O'Barr wrote: > That's interesting, isn't it? The way that works...I've always wanted to > go to the North Pole to see if there was a big hole there too. Notice how > very few people have been there, maybe there really is a big hole there... > Yah, it's unlikely that there is a hole there, but the fact that most > people haven't seen or experienced certain things like that makes me wonder > what they're really like... > -----Original Message----- > From: micah lloyd > To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com > Date: Monday, September 11, 2000 8:15 PM > Subject: [FG]: ozone > > >Hello has anyone heard of a way for a normal person to > >get indisputable proof of the ozone hole, weather it > >exists or not? goto www.msnbc.com > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > >http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 12 19:04:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12949; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:03:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:03:19 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c01d26$62f72260$f7d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:00:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"jrBil.0.9A3.c1klv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16728 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well, Latin isn't perfect... -----Original Message----- From: John Lighton To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone > >>Oh, and another thing, "Cognito ergo sum"-Descartes. The only thing you >>can indisputably be sure of is your own existence, remember that. > > >Actually "cogito ergo sum", I think therefore I am; "cognito" implies that >"I understand therefore I am", on which basis the world would be effectively >depopulated =:-] > >John > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 12 19:15:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA18316; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:13:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:13:35 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01c01d27$c6e4fe40$f7d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:10:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C01D06.3F34AD40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"EhUrp3.0.oT4.FBklv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16729 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Dark bulbs? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C01D06.3F34AD40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was looking up infrared "stuff" on keelynet when I found something = about a "dark bulb". I know it's perfectly feasable, but I wasn't aware = they were in production. What's going on? Does anyone here have = experience with "dark bulbs"? ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C01D06.3F34AD40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I was looking up infrared "stuff" = on=20 keelynet when I found something about a "dark bulb".  I know it's = perfectly=20 feasable, but I wasn't aware they were in production.  What's going = on?  Does anyone here have experience with "dark=20 bulbs"?
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C01D06.3F34AD40-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 12 19:32:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA25217; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:31:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:31:27 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01c01d2a$541ea3e0$f7d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:28:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C01D08.CC4CC120" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"842eq.0.p96.-Rklv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16730 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Invisibility This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C01D08.CC4CC120 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C01D08.CC4CC120" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C01D08.CC4CC120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.keelynet.com/unclass/invisi.htm ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C01D08.CC4CC120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

http://www.keelynet.c= om/unclass/invisi.htm ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C01D08.CC4CC120-- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C01D08.CC4CC120 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Invisibility.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Invisibility.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.keelynet.com/unclass/invisi.htm [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.keelynet.com/unclass/invisi.htm Modified=80DA27472A1DC001D0 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C01D08.CC4CC120-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 12 20:48:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA18701; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:42:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:42:18 -0700 Message-ID: <325380B7F2EED211B46700805F15B4654D1EE1@itntl-msg02.itntl.bhp.com.au> From: "Croese, Darren DM" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: [FG]: Dark bulbs? Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:36:22 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"769RY2.0.6a4.PUllv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16731 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Does it simply mean a UV light? I had a dark light in the form of a standard light bulb years ago. Was fun while it lasted. If this is what it is referring to it shouldn't be too hard to pick one up. Cheers, Daz. -----Original Message----- From: Chris O'Barr [mailto:paradis2@peganet.com] Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2000 12:10 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Dark bulbs? I was looking up infrared "stuff" on keelynet when I found something about a "dark bulb". I know it's perfectly feasable, but I wasn't aware they were in production. What's going on? Does anyone here have experience with "dark bulbs"? EOM NOTICE - This message contains information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. It may also be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate , copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify postmaster@bhp.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 12 23:50:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA06693; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:50:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:50:16 -0700 Message-ID: <003701c01d0d$61132980$61b622cf@a9o0z0> From: "Alik S" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Invisibility Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:01:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0034_01C01D0D.60421DE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"EO7CD2.0.Pe1.cEolv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16732 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C01D0D.60421DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have actually seen a 1930's book from UK with a series of photos from = that demo, looked very impressive at first glance. Alik S. -----Original Message----- From: Chris O'Barr To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 4:28 AM Subject: [FG]: Invisibility =20 =20 =20 =20 http://www.keelynet.com/unclass/invisi.htm=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C01D0D.60421DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have actually seen a 1930's book from UK with a = series of=20 photos from that demo, looked very impressive at first = glance.
 
Alik S.
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Chris O'Barr <paradis2@peganet.com>
T= o:=20 freenrg-l@eskimo.com = <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
D= ate:=20 Wednesday, September 13, 2000 4:28 AM
Subject: [FG]:=20 Invisibility

 

http://www.keelynet.c= om/unclass/invisi.htm=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C01D0D.60421DE0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 13 00:36:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA16345; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:34:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:34:43 -0700 Message-ID: <20000913073412.13487.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:34:12 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"cqGX81.0.C_3.Juolv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16733 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Philadelphia Experiment Revisited/pt 1 It is said that the great late Nikola Tesla worked on this thing, but when we see the time periods it is considered completely impossible how an 87 year old Nikola could have possible worked on it, since he was relegated to his demise as an eccentric inventor, and soon afterwards he was dead in his New York Hotel. I wonder if maybe he did get a good deal from the government who wanted these devices, and now hush hush.. So in the good spirit of Nikola Tesla, I think a re/enactment is in order. Of course I will construct the same thing. What did the pre transistor age people want to do and how did they want to do it. They wanted to evade a radar signal, to appear invisible and they got more than they bargained for. Whatever device was there made the whole vibration on the ship and also the occupants a separate ground from the rest of the world, but how? These are all the ideas bandied about the mind, but no one has an answer. Where was the ground? It was on water. Does water have a resonant frequency? Some say it does and have named harmonics. Could such a harmonic resonant frequency have been designed as Tesla's greatest achievement,only to be hidden as a total myth by the powers that be? probably not. However inquisitive minds wish to know. How in the world can a simple tesla coil onboard a battleship or whatever block the radar? It cannot. The only possible solution in this Mark Twain story of semi delusional science fiction presented for part time amusement only is if the discharges of the coil (systems) are powered so that the discharges rotate around the ship in unison with polyphase generation, producing a ring of fire of high voltage discharge surrounding that vessel. Then the location of the high frequency emmitor is literally rotating, timed to however fast those input generators can make revolutions. When the method of this technique is found with a polyphase arc gap connection to each of those primaries producing the rotating ring of fire, a peculiar unsafe mechanism is found in that method. If the arc gap connection were to suddenly open wide by accident, if the source generators are not current limited, a melt down and fire will occur on the transformers, exactly said to occur on the USS Eldrige. ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 13 02:45:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA05661; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 02:45:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 02:45:00 -0700 Message-ID: <20000913094426.4890.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 02:44:26 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"4-YnL.0.EO1.Soqlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16734 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: PX/pt 2 The Design of Catastrophic Circuits. Since I have not yet made these measures experimentally and driven them from a current limited Motional emf, I have no Idea of what those results are but can speculate. If that source were not limited in its current supply those components will melt the varnish or a melt down. There is always a mirror image complement to a process. The typical high frequency process to a tesla primary to input high frequency to the secondary is to choose the same vibration as that secondary will vibrate to. The conceptial limitations and problems involving that is that those vibrations during time actually change with the amount of arcing present during that time period. making a new figure of impedance added to factor down the Q value ect. In that process it is placed as a short to the power input, so it absorbs so much energy, then dissipates it , and then is recharged again. In this deal with the devil the first thing that is asked is why doesnt the power source simply overcome the source doing its oscillating switch job. Yes that can occur in cases where that source would deliver a higher than amperage input than needed, also known as quenching problems, but also on the other end larger than resonant capacitors could be used... These are the kind of understandings that people speak of in the tesla coil building trade and how it fascinates some, including myself who has not yet made the correct version... The reason that the input current does not significantly inhibit the tank circuit is that the tank circuit contains q more amperage than the input, although those current flows are themselves in parallel and apparently acting in separate time periods as charge time and oscillation. The tank circuit itself offers a very high impedance value, refusing the current input. It is therefore unthinkable by those using that method for over a century as state of the art dictated by tesla example and design where the inverse attempt is made, where a great current demand can be made and then negotiated away by a different switching technique of a more violent nature. This unfortunately may cause ear problems and who knows what else. But that single arc gap can be tamed down with a safe double arc gap for various uses. These uses are to subject a sample to high frequency oscillations, and to find how continuous they can be made by narrowing the arc gap. What is found then is that no matter how high the BPS rate, a single phase can only be made to oscillate 50% of the time period in the very best of conditions. But of course as everyone has guessed by now If we used 3 120 degree conventionally designed phases and allowed each phase to power a tesla coil where each secondary terminal would arc to each other in space we would have the first example of a ring of fire. Now the next problem to be approached is how we would allow all of the high frequency oscillations, or the percentage of time engaged in high frequency/vs down time, to be shared by a common piece. That common piece then represents the COMMON RETURN GROUND to be used if necessary IN the tesla coil delta operation, as its central wye connection. I would hope the simple operator of these devices knows that a tesla coil is reduced without a ground in its secondary operation, and thereby made more dangerous of primary arcover without this secondary being grounded. In the ordinary three phase operation, the ground wire itself is circumvented when the loads on all three phases are equal: likewise that ground wire represents a path to be taken when needed if one phase suddenly stops conducting. In the three phase tesla coil system, the ground becomes that unused current path, the metal polar capcity of the ship on water, or the bird on a wire. There is no actual ground for each secondary, it circulates to the next secondary while the whole ship is surrounded by a ring of terminal discharges made by passing the voltage in a circular manner. Using this same design in further considerations a 2300 mile/sec electrical path of 14 gauge wire is used in the further considerations to produce the desired frequency to hide on water. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 13 06:16:45 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA24977; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 06:11:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 06:11:13 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000913081046.0094f920@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:11:43 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Invisibility In-Reply-To: <000b01c01d2a$541ea3e0$f7d666ce@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"ogsXo2.0.866.nptlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16735 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 10:28 PM 9/12/00 -0400, you wrote: > > >http://www.keelynet.com/unclass >/invisi.htm Yah... I'll believe it when I see it.... er.. um.. or ...... don't see it.. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 13 07:08:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA11464; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 07:07:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 07:07:16 -0700 Message-ID: <39BF89DC.1040407@microtec.net> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:06:20 -0400 From: patrick tremblay User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; N; Win98; en-US; m14) Netscape6/6.0b1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Philadelphia Experiment Revisited/pt 1 References: <20000913073412.13487.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010702050700030205040303" Resent-Message-ID: <"xuqjh3.0.1p2.Keulv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16736 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --------------010702050700030205040303 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Eldrige was carrying degaussing material. that is some sort of tesla coil designed to degauss the ship so it won't attract magnetic mines. harvey norris wrote: > > It is said that the great late Nikola Tesla worked on > this thing, but when we see the time periods it is > considered completely impossible how an 87 year old > Nikola could have possible worked on it, since he was > relegated to his demise as an eccentric inventor, and > soon afterwards he was dead in his New York Hotel. I > wonder if maybe he did get a good deal from the > government who wanted these devices, and now hush > hush.. > > So in the good spirit of Nikola Tesla, I think a > re/enactment is in order. Of course I will construct > the same thing. What did the pre transistor age people > want to do and how did they want to do it. They wanted > to evade a radar signal, to appear invisible and they > got more than they bargained for. Whatever device was > there made the whole vibration on the ship and also > the occupants a separate ground from the rest of the > world, but how? These are all the ideas bandied about > the mind, but no one has an answer. > > Where was the ground? It was on water. Does water have > a resonant frequency? Some say it does and have named > harmonics. Could such a harmonic resonant frequency > have been designed as Tesla's greatest > achievement,only to be hidden as a total myth by the > powers that be? probably not. > > However inquisitive minds wish to know. How in the > world can a simple tesla coil onboard a battleship or > whatever block the radar? It cannot. The only possible > solution in this Mark Twain story of semi delusional > science fiction presented for part time amusement > only is if the discharges of the coil (systems) are > powered so that the discharges rotate around the ship > in unison with polyphase generation, producing a ring > of fire of high voltage discharge surrounding that > vessel. Then the location of the high frequency > emmitor is literally rotating, timed to however fast > those input generators can make revolutions. When the > method of this technique is found with a polyphase arc > gap connection to each of those primaries producing > the rotating ring of fire, a peculiar unsafe mechanism > is found in that method. If the arc gap connection > were to suddenly open wide by accident, if the source > generators are not current limited, a melt down and > fire will occur on the transformers, exactly said to > occur on the USS Eldrige. > > ===== > Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > --------------010702050700030205040303 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Eldrige was carrying degaussing material.

that is some sort of tesla coil designed to degauss the ship so it won't attract magnetic mines.




harvey norris wrote:
It is said that the great late Nikola Tesla worked on
this thing, but when we see the time periods it is
considered completely impossible how an 87 year old
Nikola could have possible worked on it, since he was
relegated to his demise as an eccentric inventor, and
soon afterwards he was dead in his New York Hotel. I
wonder if maybe he did get a good deal from the
government who wanted these devices, and now hush
hush..

So in the good spirit of Nikola Tesla, I think a
re/enactment is in order. Of course I will construct
the same thing. What did the pre transistor age people
want to do and how did they want to do it. They wanted
to evade a radar signal, to appear invisible and they
got more than they bargained for. Whatever device was
there made the whole vibration on the ship and also
the occupants a separate ground from the rest of the
world, but how? These are all the ideas bandied about
the mind, but no one has an answer.

Where was the ground? It was on water. Does water have
a resonant frequency? Some say it does and have named
harmonics. Could such a harmonic resonant frequency
have been designed as Tesla's greatest
achievement,only to be hidden as a total myth by the
powers that be? probably not.

However inquisitive minds wish to know. How in the
world can a simple tesla coil onboard a battleship or
whatever block the radar? It cannot. The only possible
solution in this Mark Twain story of semi delusional
science fiction presented for  part time amusement
only is if the discharges of the coil (systems) are
powered so that the discharges rotate around the ship
in unison with polyphase generation, producing a ring
of fire of high voltage discharge surrounding that
vessel. Then the location of the high frequency
emmitor is literally rotating, timed to however fast
those input generators can make revolutions. When the
method of this technique is found with a polyphase arc
gap connection to each of those primaries producing
the rotating ring of fire, a peculiar unsafe mechanism
is found in that method. If the arc gap connection 
were to suddenly open wide by accident, if the source
generators are not current limited, a melt down and
fire will occur on the transformers, exactly said to
occur on the USS Eldrige.

=====
Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

--------------010702050700030205040303-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 13 09:51:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA21943; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:50:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:50:25 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.28.80.103] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Philadelphia Experiment Revisited/pt 1 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:49:50 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Sep 2000 16:49:50.0592 (UTC) FILETIME=[A1FBE000:01C01DA2] Resent-Message-ID: <"xSK6a1.0.kM5.G1xlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16737 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Your right Harvey... I agree Nicola Tesla could not have worked on the project directly... How ever, I do believe it was based on his work... Resonant frequency was his specialty... I feel he would have been heralded far above the great scientists if not for one fact... He did not keep good notes/publish papers... He had an almost perfect photographic memory... So notes were just a cumbersome and potentially dangerous thing to him... You have to look at how he had, had his work stole by Tomas Edison when he first came to America... So he guarded his secrets... We take for granted the magic of his discoveries daily... 60Hz is not by accident... 60Hz is simply a harmonic frequency... Just one of the many that was found by his research... And power transmission through air is nothing more than just finding the proper frequency... Most of his test results died with him... The rest were taken... We can only rediscover what he knew instinctively... I do believe he could do all that he clamed he could maybe more... Timothy... >From: harvey norris >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: [FG]: Philadelphia Experiment Revisited/pt 1 >Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:34:12 -0700 (PDT) > >It is said that the great late Nikola Tesla worked on >this thing, but when we see the time periods it is >considered completely impossible how an 87 year old >Nikola could have possible worked on it, since he was >relegated to his demise as an eccentric inventor, and >soon afterwards he was dead in his New York Hotel. I >wonder if maybe he did get a good deal from the >government who wanted these devices, and now hush >hush.. > >So in the good spirit of Nikola Tesla, I think a >re/enactment is in order. Of course I will construct >the same thing. What did the pre transistor age people >want to do and how did they want to do it. They wanted >to evade a radar signal, to appear invisible and they >got more than they bargained for. Whatever device was >there made the whole vibration on the ship and also >the occupants a separate ground from the rest of the >world, but how? These are all the ideas bandied about >the mind, but no one has an answer. > >Where was the ground? It was on water. Does water have >a resonant frequency? Some say it does and have named >harmonics. Could such a harmonic resonant frequency >have been designed as Tesla's greatest >achievement,only to be hidden as a total myth by the >powers that be? probably not. > >However inquisitive minds wish to know. How in the >world can a simple tesla coil onboard a battleship or >whatever block the radar? It cannot. The only possible >solution in this Mark Twain story of semi delusional >science fiction presented for part time amusement >only is if the discharges of the coil (systems) are >powered so that the discharges rotate around the ship >in unison with polyphase generation, producing a ring >of fire of high voltage discharge surrounding that >vessel. Then the location of the high frequency >emmitor is literally rotating, timed to however fast >those input generators can make revolutions. When the >method of this technique is found with a polyphase arc >gap connection to each of those primaries producing >the rotating ring of fire, a peculiar unsafe mechanism >is found in that method. If the arc gap connection >were to suddenly open wide by accident, if the source >generators are not current limited, a melt down and >fire will occur on the transformers, exactly said to >occur on the USS Eldrige. > >===== >Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! >http://mail.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 13 12:03:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA05234; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:01:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:01:55 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: <46.a850be0.26f128ea@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:00:58 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"81_fy2.0.TH1.Zyylv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16738 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Initial wiring diagram on web site http://members.a ol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 13 12:11:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA11238; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:11:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:11:10 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:10:58 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Expiredinmiddle: true X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [FG]: Philadelphia Experiment - A note of caution X-Sender-Ip: 213.40.20.234 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GBSIs.0.Vl2.E5zlv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16739 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I just wanted to flag a note of caution in the midst of this particular enquiry. Forgive me if I am making a point already thought of, but I am concerned with everyone's safety here. It was well documented that most of the crew of the USS Eldridge disappeared from the ship after the experiment was conducted, and those that remained were insane. This is not apocryphal, this is official military release. The Philadelphia experiment may involve bizarre temporal, electrical and biological effects which we cannot forsee - there is more than just Tesla science here. I urge anyone involved with this to be EXTREMELY CAREFUL. High voltage is a risky enough techn ology, but all the other effects combined make it probably one of the most (if not the most) dangerous scientific experiment ever conducted (barring the H-Bomb). Again, sorry if I'm teaching grandmothers to suck eggs, but I don't want anyone to die or go loopy over this........ James O. Batchelor >>However inquisitive minds wish to know. How in the >>world can a simple tesla coil onboard a battleship or >>whatever block the radar? It cannot. The only possible >>solution in this Mark Twain story of semi delusional >>science fiction presented for part time amusement >>only is if the discharges of the coil (systems) are >>powered so that the discharges rotate around the ship >>in unison with polyphase generation, producing a ring >>of fire of high voltage discharge surrounding that >>vessel. Then the location of the high frequency >>emmitor is literally rotating, timed to however fast >>those input generators can make revolutions. When the >>method of this technique is found with a polyphase arc >>gap connection to each of those primaries producing >>the rotating ring of fire, a peculiar unsafe mechanism >>is found in that method. If the arc gap connection >>were to suddenly open wide by accident, if the source >>generators are not current limited, a melt down and >>fire will occur on the transformers, exactly said to >>occur on the USS Eldrige. >>> > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 13 14:11:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA00900; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:11:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:11:00 -0700 From: "David Rosignoli" Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Reply-to: drdaveor@enter.net To: "James Owen Batchelor" , freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-CC-Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:10:52 +400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Philadelphia Experiment - A note of caution X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.1t, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <39bfed5c.4dd3.0@enter.net> X-User-Info: 192.91.146.34 Resent-Message-ID: <"lt6P82.0.tD.Zr-lv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16740 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >It was well documented that most of the crew of the USS Eldridge disappeared from the ship after the experiment was conducted, and those that remained were insane. This is not apocryphal, this is official military release. This was documented in a military release? Where? In on of the early issues of the Electric Spacecraft Journal, someone researched the historical accuracy of the Phila. Exp. and found no credibility to the story. I just want to see where this evidence comes from. As far as I know, it started in a few places. One was in Charles Berlitz' The Philadelphia Exp. and in his The Bermuda Triangle. There was, I believe, an earlier reference but the exact name escapes me. Just trying to get to the bottom of it all. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 13 14:48:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA17000; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:47:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:47:41 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c01dcb$d6dc43e0$4dd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Dark bulbs? Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:44:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"KD4sR1.0.X94.yN_lv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16741 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com No, not a light emitter, a light absorber. It said something about the Hay Field effect? -----Original Message----- From: Croese, Darren DM To: 'freenrg-l@eskimo.com' Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 11:48 PM Subject: RE: [FG]: Dark bulbs? >Does it simply mean a UV light? I had a dark light in the form of a standard light bulb years ago. Was fun while it lasted. If this is what it is referring to it shouldn't be too hard to pick one up. > >Cheers, >Daz. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Chris O'Barr [mailto:paradis2@peganet.com] >Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2000 12:10 >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: [FG]: Dark bulbs? > > > I was looking up infrared "stuff" on keelynet when I found something about a "dark bulb". I know it's perfectly feasable, but I wasn't aware they were in production. What's going on? Does anyone here have experience with "dark bulbs"? > > >EOM > >NOTICE - This message contains information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. It may also be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify postmaster@bhp.com. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 13 14:57:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA20031; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:56:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000b01c01dcd$07eabf60$4dd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:53:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C01DAB.80068D20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"I1cMZ3.0.fu4.AW_lv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16742 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: darkbulb.txt This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C01DAB.80068D20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C01DAB.80068D20" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C01DAB.80068D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.keelynet.com/humor/darkbulb.txt ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C01DAB.80068D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

http://www.keelynet.c= om/humor/darkbulb.txt ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C01DAB.80068D20-- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C01DAB.80068D20 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="darkbulb.txt.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="darkbulb.txt.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.keelynet.com/humor/darkbulb.txt [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.keelynet.com/humor/darkbulb.txt Modified=00A33F02CD1DC0018F ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C01DAB.80068D20-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 13 17:33:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA21793; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:31:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000801c01de0$478740e0$853dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:11:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"eN5uY1.0.HK5.Un1mv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16743 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Fw: [FG]: Philadelphia Experiment - A note of caution ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Reiter" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Philadelphia Experiment - A note of caution > > Hello, all; > > See notes below: > > > This was documented in a military release? Where? In on of the early > issues > > of the Electric Spacecraft Journal, someone researched the historical > accuracy > > of the Phila. Exp. and found no credibility to the story. I just want to > see > > where this evidence comes from. As far as I know, it started in a few > places. > > One was in Charles Berlitz' The Philadelphia Exp. and in his The Bermuda > Triangle. > > There was, I believe, an earlier reference but the exact name escapes me. > > > > Just trying to get to the bottom of it all. > > ********* As has everyone else. Hundreds of UFO and Antigravity > enthusiasts over the past 40 years have jumped into it. As a boy mad > scientist growing up in the 1970's and 80's I was in the midst of it as > well. It seemed like it just had to be the ultimate clue. Sadly, I have > become a lot more skeptical as years went on. > The original story seems to have begun with a mysterious and probably > deranged individual named alternately Carl Allen, or Carlos Allende. > Claimed to have been a seaman on an observer boat near the Eldridge. > Allende described the whole thing as well as the aftermath to the famous > early era Ufologist, Morris Jessup, in the 1950's. Jessup chased the guy > around for quite a while, then was able to gradually get the "whole " story. > Charles Berlitz pretty well re-hashes the whole tale in his book and > articles on the topic. > > 99.9% of everything getting bounced around in print, and on the net; from > Keelynet to this discussion group, is re-telling of the same basic Allende / > Jessup / Berlitz paper trail. More recent stuff by Preston Nichols, et al. > is extrapolation - very interesting, but probably all without any meat to > back it up. > > The only DIFFERENT and genuinely interesting treatment of the matter that > I have read in the past 10 years was a series of articles by Jacque Vallee. > Vallee did an exquisite detectives job of finding the few surviving naval > personnel who were associated with the Eldridge. What he found was > intriguing: > > 1. The Eldridge was indeed at the place and time that the accounting by > Allende said it was. > 2. There were radar invisibility experiments going on in that era. > 3. By some testimony, the Eldridge may have been used in one of these. > > However, Vallee felt that the rest was pure mythos. There were no > accounts or evidence for the visual effects, the vanishing / re-appearing / > combusting / insane sailors. He concludes that the tales of the "popular" > Philadelphia Experiment, as many believe in them today, originated among the > local waterfront bars, as sailors and techies talked about RADAR > invisibility. This got picked up as gossip, and became legend. > > I resisted for a long time the nagging urge to give up the whole thing as > a myth. But guys, I really had no choice. There really has been no > convincing evidence for it, at least in my opinion. More importantly, > no-one has yet replicated the supposed effect. (Though that's no reason to > not keep trying!!!) > > NR > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 13 18:10:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA13395; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:09:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:09:48 -0700 Message-ID: <019501c01de8$21534f60$63d4ddd1@x2001> From: "2001" To: References: <000b01c01dcd$07eabf60$4dd666ce@default> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:07:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"wC0RR1.0.4H3.SL2mv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16744 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt Available wherever lightbulbs are sold? Did this article come out on April 1st? Bil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 2:53 PM Subject: [FG]: darkbulb.txt http://www.keelynet.com/humor/darkbulb.txt From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 13 18:43:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA28102; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:42:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:42:45 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c01dec$b1412da0$48d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:39:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"6NYDk.0._s6.Kq2mv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16745 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Most of the stuff I find on Keelynet if a few years old. So I wouldn't know... How do you feel about the general electromagnetic idea of it though. I don't know about that peticular design, but the basic "endophotonic" idea sounds reasonable... -----Original Message----- From: 2001 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 9:12 PM Subject: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt >Available wherever lightbulbs are sold? >Did this article come out on April 1st? > >Bil > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Chris O'Barr" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 2:53 PM >Subject: [FG]: darkbulb.txt > > > > >http://www.keelynet.com/humor/darkbulb.txt > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 13 20:42:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA07345; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:37:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:37:09 -0700 Message-ID: <021d01c01dfc$b19e9ca0$63d4ddd1@x2001> From: "2001" To: References: <000801c01dec$b1412da0$48d666ce@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:55:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"8yD1g2.0.go1.aV4mv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16746 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I failed to notice the word "humor" in this link > >http://www.keelynet.com/humor/darkbulb.txt I guess that explains it! Bil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt > Most of the stuff I find on Keelynet if a few years old. So I wouldn't > know... > How do you feel about the general electromagnetic idea of it though. I > don't know about that peticular design, but the basic "endophotonic" idea > sounds reasonable... > -----Original Message----- > From: 2001 > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 9:12 PM > Subject: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt > > > >Available wherever lightbulbs are sold? > >Did this article come out on April 1st? > > > >Bil > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Chris O'Barr" > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 2:53 PM > >Subject: [FG]: darkbulb.txt > > > > > > > > > >http://www.keelynet.com/humor/darkbulb.txt > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 14 07:43:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA06162; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:42:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:42:30 -0700 Message-ID: <20000914144228.6086.qmail@nwcst291.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 14 Sep 00 07:42:28 PDT From: Alfred Anderson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (34FM.0700.4.03) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----NetAddressPart-00--=_NoQC8224S913ddb05cd" Resent-Message-ID: <"uqg_K3.0.7W1.MFEmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16747 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Dieter Bauer (rotator) is WRONG ! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------NetAddressPart-00--=_NoQC8224S913ddb05cd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have analyzed the rotator problem of Mr. Dieter Bauer and found that he= is wrong: The proof is attached as a PDF file (17KB) : Alfred Anderson ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 ------NetAddressPart-00--=_NoQC8224S913ddb05cd Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Bauer.pdf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Bauer.pdf" JVBERi0xLjMNJeLjz9MNCjEgMCBvYmoNPDwgDS9DcmVhdG9yIDxmZWZmMDA0MjAwNjEwMDc1 MDA2NTAwNzIwMDJlMDA2NDAwNmYwMDYzMDAyMDAwMmQwMDIwMDA0ZDAwNjkwMDYzMDA3MjAw NmYwMDczMDA2ZjAwNjYwMDc0MDAyMDAwNTcwMDZmMDA3MjAwNjQ+DS9DcmVhdGlvbkRhdGUg KEQ6MjAwMDA5MTQxNjQwMTIpDS9UaXRsZSA8ZmVmZjAwNDIwMDYxMDA3NTAwNjUwMDcyMDAy 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MDk5MzQgMDAwMDAgbg0KMDAwMDAxMTAyMSAwMDAwMCBuDQowMDAwMDExMzEzIDAwMDAwIG4N CjAwMDAwMTIzOTQgMDAwMDAgbg0KMDAwMDAxMjY3OCAwMDAwMCBuDQowMDAwMDEyNzg0IDAw MDAwIG4NCjAwMDAwMTI5MzAgMDAwMDAgbg0KMDAwMDAxNDU2MCAwMDAwMCBuDQp0cmFpbGVy DTw8DS9TaXplIDI2DS9JbmZvIDEgMCBSIA0vUm9vdCAzIDAgUiANL0lEWzw3NTEwMmVkYTIy NjEyMmY1OTk5M2ViNzdiZmU2MmM1ND48MzkwMDQ4MzM5YzRhOTVjNzVlMjM2N2MwYTJlOTQ0 NGE+XQ0+Pg1zdGFydHhyZWYNMTQ1ODINJSVFT0YN ------NetAddressPart-00--=_NoQC8224S913ddb05cd-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 14 10:06:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA05861; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:05:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:05:11 -0700 Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:07:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200009141707.TAA16055@gunnison.RZ-Berlin.MPG.DE> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Re: [FG]: Dieter Bauer (rotator) is WRONG ! Resent-Message-ID: <"V7q883.0.QR1.7LGmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16748 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi All At 07:42 14.09.00 PDT, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > >I have analyzed the rotator problem of Mr. Dieter Bauer > and found that he is wrong: look at http://www.overunity.de/rotator/rotator2.htm > >The proof is attached as a PDF file (17KB) : > >Alfred Anderson > I believe my original version is still correct ! The Anderson argument is an variation of the counterarguments I presented in the section "4. Critics following to the last version of this article" . Summarizing, if you take a relation of the type Integral Torque(Angle) dAngle . in order to calculate the applied work you get an overunity result. Anderson, however, regards the applied energies to be calculable like kinetic potential differences (see first Delta E calculation in his section 3 on page 2). It is clear: if you think so, you get in an driven belt system a zero energy balance and in a braked system a loss. I know this way of argumentation very well in the meantime. You get only the results out you inserted in form of your ansatz. In my article it is a priori avoided to assume a potential property of the applied energy. Only if you do so you can make a decision by calculation. Sincerely Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 14 13:23:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA16495; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:23:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:23:10 -0700 Message-Id: <200009142022.GAA03009@turbo.turboweb.net.au> X-Mailer: Eudora Pro 1.1 for Newton Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:33:00 +1000 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" From: Allan Alderson Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone Resent-Message-ID: <"D79PJ.0.e14.gEJmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16749 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:37:15 -0400, Mike Johnston wrote: > >I've always wanted to >> go to the North Pole to see if there was a big hole there too [snip] A lot of talk about the north pole hole . Here in Aus. we get lots info about a UV index 'cause I think our hole's bigger than your hole ;-) - Allan. ---- ---- ---- ---- Please reply with a 'plain text' message. adsaa@turboweb.net.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 14 17:18:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA28373; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:17:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:17:38 -0700 Message-ID: <39C16909.1C08B3AA@harti.com> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:10:49 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WS-5O3.0.Ax6.YgMmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16750 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: New German Newman machine test results ! Hi All, I received a letter in the last days with some photos and a test report of a new pretty big Newman machine motor build in Germany and tested in deepth by this guy. The guy wants to stay anonymous, but I will at least give you the numbers of the tests... First please reread my older test reports at: http://www.overunity.com/newman2/ Here is a premiliary test report of this new motor: The motor is one of the newer Newman type models with a rotor consisting of about 1 Meter long Neodynium magnet rotor and 4 seperate coils around it, like the one Newman published in his 1 page free construction FAX that Evan Soule faxed out a few years ago. It is not the "production model type" but one model earlier. The commutator consisted of several in series connected discs with contacts and carbon brushed in series for a better and faster dI/dt interruption. Multiple spark gaps in series ! (The more spark gaps in are series , the better !) The rotor has 20 Kgs of Neodynium permanent magnets and the coils consist of 80 Kgs total of copper wire, with 0.1 mm diameter. The battery voltage was: 140 x 12 Volt car battery (Pb accumulators) in series = 1680 Volts DC input voltage into the motor. Average input current was about 65.5 mA. This gave an average DC input power of about 110 Watts. The motor was turning at this input power at about 125 RPM. The motor was coupled then via a pulley gear belt to an AC generator and lighted a 100 Watts incand. light bulb pretty dimmly. I don´t know the gear ratio nor the efficiency of the AC generator....but from the pictures to see the gear ratio seems to be at least around 1:10, so the AC generator ran at least about 1250 RPM or faster... So the AC output is maybe about 40 to 60 Watts power level compared with the light output of the bulb versus normal lighting of a 100 Watt bulb ! So it seems also here the mechanical output of the Newman machine is less than the electrical input power ! (In my earlier test with my Newman machine the mechanical output was also only about 60 to 70 % of the electrical input) But: The electrical output from the coils via the sparking at the commutator was about 120 Watts of power running back to the batteries ! This was measured by scope shots analysing the back current pulses over time by the guy who build the motor. Okay, these scope measurements are not easy to do and you must keep attention to "jumping potential level" and ground issues.. But he said, that the negative current pulses are definately pretty big in his unit and by integration over time the energy into the motor seems to be less than the energy out of the coils over one cycle. He also says, that if onto the motor is put a bigger mechanical load also the back current pulse power will be bigger. He also agrees with me, that the only "magical" effect is in the sparks at the commutator and that this sparking produces the only OU part of the machine. The DC motor part of the machine (mechanical output) seems to be under 100 % efficient. The problem is also, that with this back current pulses you can kill the batteries and a few were also damaged. He also came to the conclusion, that at this power level of about 100 to 200 Watts it is not very efficient to build such a huge motor with so much Kg of copper and so expensive neodynium magnets. Also the RF noise from the commutator is extreme and is a problem for the local neighbours which interfere with all radio and TV sets... So this Newman machine in its current state is an unpractrical device putting out way too low power at its size and cost. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 14 18:18:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA18450; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:17:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:17:41 -0700 Message-ID: <001701c01eb2$5a48b420$54d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:14:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"79sdT.0.BW4.rYNmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16751 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ...actually, I was refering to the "hollow earth" theory. I'm not an advocate of this theory, but who's to say there aren't holes at the poles. P.S.- Long live Australia!! :-) -----Original Message----- From: Allan Alderson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, September 14, 2000 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone >On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:37:15 -0400, Mike Johnston wrote: >> >>I've always wanted to >>> go to the North Pole to see if there was a big hole there too > [snip] > >A lot of talk about the north pole hole . Here in Aus. we get lots info >about a UV index 'cause I think our hole's bigger than your hole ;-) > > - Allan. >---- ---- ---- ---- > >Please reply with a 'plain text' message. >adsaa@turboweb.net.au > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 14 18:24:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA22409; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:24:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:24:08 -0700 Message-ID: <002501c01eb3$40d42c80$54d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:21:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ND9wo3.0.yT5.teNmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16752 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Okay, so I guess it was a joke...so what. Does no one else think the idea is feasible? Why not, it makes sense to me... -----Original Message----- From: 2001 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 11:44 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt >I failed to notice the word "humor" in this link >> >http://www.keelynet.com/humor/darkbulb.txt >I guess that explains it! > >Bil > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Chris O'Barr" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 6:39 PM >Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt > > >> Most of the stuff I find on Keelynet if a few years old. So I >wouldn't >> know... >> How do you feel about the general electromagnetic idea of it though. >I >> don't know about that peticular design, but the basic "endophotonic" idea >> sounds reasonable... >> -----Original Message----- >> From: 2001 >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> Date: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 9:12 PM >> Subject: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt >> >> >> >Available wherever lightbulbs are sold? >> >Did this article come out on April 1st? >> > >> >Bil >> > >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Chris O'Barr" >> >To: >> >Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 2:53 PM >> >Subject: [FG]: darkbulb.txt >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >http://www.keelynet.com/humor/darkbulb.txt >> > >> > >> > >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 14 19:12:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA07176; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:12:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:12:03 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990216210805.009b6ce0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:12:14 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone In-Reply-To: <200009142022.GAA03009@turbo.turboweb.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"6trrX2.0.rl1.nLOmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16753 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I believe that is correct.... I remember seeing a NASA report on the antarctic depleation... If the UV index is figured the same way for yall as it is here in TX watch out for numbers biger then 14... This summer we had several days of 17 and a 20 in august.. There was also a solar flair alert. At 11:33 AM 9/15/00 +1000, you wrote: >On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:37:15 -0400, Mike Johnston wrote: > > > >I've always wanted to > >> go to the North Pole to see if there was a big hole there too > [snip] > >A lot of talk about the north pole hole . Here in Aus. we get lots info >about a UV index 'cause I think our hole's bigger than your hole ;-) > > - Allan. >---- ---- ---- ---- > >Please reply with a 'plain text' message. >adsaa@turboweb.net.au Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 14 19:43:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA21351; Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:43:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:43:01 -0700 Message-ID: <20000915024253.2590.qmail@nwcst288.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 14 Sep 00 19:42:53 PDT From: Alfred Anderson To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Dieter Bauer (rotator) is WRONG ! X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (34FM.0700.4.03) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA21309 Resent-Message-ID: <"Z2p1A1.0.QD5.ooOmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16754 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Once again, like I stated in my paper, Mr.Bauer uses the conclusions from ANOTHER system (the driven rotors) to prove his ideas in the braked system. At this point I am not interested in other systems, since the energies in dfferent sytems can be... simply different ! Maybe I don't understand Mr.Bauer's writing. His English is very confusing and I have to read sentences several times to understand them. for example he writes: "4. Critics following to the last version of this article" instead of "criticisms following the last version..." and writes that "position angle rotates " - what the hell is this, German or English ?! The most important thing is that my line of argument has not been defeated DIRECTLY and no contradictions were pointed out. Maybe my analysis doesn't fit the DIFFERENT system, and it doesn't have to fit a DIFFERENT system. Alfred Anderson WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) wrote: > Hi All > > At 07:42 14.09.00 PDT, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > > > >I have analyzed the rotator problem of Mr. Dieter Bauer > > > and found that he is wrong: > > look at http://www.overunity.de/rotator/rotator2.htm > > > > >The proof is attached as a PDF file (17KB) : > > > >Alfred Anderson > > > > I believe my original version is still correct ! > > The Anderson argument is an variation of the counterarguments I presented in > the section "4. Critics following to the last version of this article" . > Summarizing, if you take a relation of the type > > Integral Torque(Angle) dAngle . > > in order to calculate the applied work you get an overunity result. > > Anderson, however, regards the applied energies to be calculable like > kinetic potential differences (see first Delta E calculation in his section > 3 on page 2). It is clear: if you think so, you get in an driven belt system > a zero energy balance and in a braked system a loss. > > I know this way of argumentation very well in the meantime. You get only the > results out you inserted in form of your ansatz. > > In my article it is a priori avoided to assume a potential property of the > applied energy. > Only if you do so you can make a decision by calculation. > > Sincerely > > Dieter Bauer ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 05:28:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA20302; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 05:28:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 05:28:24 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 08:17:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt Message-ID: <20000915.082837.296.0.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5,7-77 Resent-Message-ID: <"ozB251.0.4z4.dNXmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16755 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If you think that is reasonable then perhaps you would also like to join this organization: http://www.dhmo.org Dave On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:21:19 -0400 "Chris O'Barr" writes: > Okay, so I guess it was a joke...so what. Does no one else think > the > idea is feasible? Why not, it makes sense to me... > -----Original Message----- > From: 2001 > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Date: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 11:44 PM > Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt > > > >I failed to notice the word "humor" in this link > >> >http://www.keelynet.com/humor/darkbulb.txt > >I guess that explains it! > > > >Bil > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Chris O'Barr" > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 6:39 PM > >Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt > > > > > >> Most of the stuff I find on Keelynet if a few years old. So > I > >wouldn't > >> know... > >> How do you feel about the general electromagnetic idea of it > though. > >I > >> don't know about that peticular design, but the basic > "endophotonic" idea > >> sounds reasonable... > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: 2001 > >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >> Date: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 9:12 PM > >> Subject: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt > >> > >> > >> >Available wherever lightbulbs are sold? > >> >Did this article come out on April 1st? > >> > > >> >Bil > >> > > >> > > >> >----- Original Message ----- > >> >From: "Chris O'Barr" > >> >To: > >> >Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 2:53 PM > >> >Subject: [FG]: darkbulb.txt > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >http://www.keelynet.com/humor/darkbulb.txt > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > ============================================ dave.tingley@juno.com http://dave_tingley.tripod.com The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 05:29:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA20319; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 05:28:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 05:28:25 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 08:28:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Dieter Bauer (rotator) is WRONG ! Message-ID: <20000915.082837.296.1.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-5,7-104 Resent-Message-ID: <"ccBVV.0.Oz4.eNXmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16756 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com My question is: Does the gravity wheel pictured at the bottom of the web page turn? He refers to it as a "flop", in english that would mean "doesn't work" does it mean the same in german? Dave On 14 Sep 00 19:42:53 PDT Alfred Anderson writes: > > Once again, like I stated in my paper, Mr.Bauer uses the conclusions > from > ANOTHER system (the driven rotors) to prove his ideas in the braked > system. > > At this point I am not interested in other systems, since the > energies in > dfferent sytems can be... simply different ! > > Maybe I don't understand Mr.Bauer's writing. His English is very > confusing > and I have to read sentences several times to understand them. > > for example he writes: > "4. Critics following to the last version of this article" > instead of "criticisms following the last version..." > and writes that "position angle rotates " - what the hell is this, > German or > English ?! > > The most important thing is that my line of argument has not been > defeated > DIRECTLY and no contradictions were pointed out. Maybe my analysis > doesn't > fit the DIFFERENT system, and it doesn't have to fit a DIFFERENT > system. > > Alfred Anderson > > > > WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) wrote: > > Hi All > > > > At 07:42 14.09.00 PDT, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > > > > > >I have analyzed the rotator problem of Mr. Dieter Bauer > > > > > and found that he is wrong: > > > > look at http://www.overunity.de/rotator/rotator2.htm > > > > > > > >The proof is attached as a PDF file (17KB) : > > > > > >Alfred Anderson > > > > > > > I believe my original version is still correct ! > > > > The Anderson argument is an variation of the counterarguments I > presented > in > > the section "4. Critics following to the last version of this > article" . > > Summarizing, if you take a relation of the type > > > > Integral Torque(Angle) dAngle . > > > > in order to calculate the applied work you get an overunity > result. > > > > Anderson, however, regards the applied energies to be calculable > like > > kinetic potential differences (see first Delta E calculation in > his section > > 3 on page 2). It is clear: if you think so, you get in an driven > belt > system > > a zero energy balance and in a braked system a loss. > > > > I know this way of argumentation very well in the meantime. You get > only > the > > results out you inserted in form of your ansatz. > > > > In my article it is a priori avoided to assume a potential > property of the > > applied energy. > > Only if you do so you can make a decision by calculation. > > > > Sincerely > > > > Dieter Bauer > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free email and a permanent address at > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > ============================================ dave.tingley@juno.com http://dave_tingley.tripod.com The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 06:21:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA03821; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 06:20:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 06:20:48 -0700 Message-ID: <39C22200.2ABB8F4C@t-online.de> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:20:00 +0200 From: Heinzerling_Clan@t-online.de (Juergen Heinzerling) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [de]C-QXW03106 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Dieter Bauer (rotator) is WRONG ! References: <20000915.082837.296.1.dave.tingley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 0285780152-0001@t-dialin.net Resent-Message-ID: <"-poz62.0.Vx.l8Ymv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16757 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com dave.tingley@juno.com wrote: > > page turn? He refers to it as a "flop", in english that would mean > "doesn't work" does it mean the same in german? Oh, absolutely ;-) __________________________________________ Jürgen Heinzerling * Author & Investigator The last twenty-nine days of the month are the toughest NIKOLA TESLA From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 06:29:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA00523; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 06:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 06:23:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000915082200.00969bf0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 08:23:13 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt In-Reply-To: <20000915.082837.296.0.dave.tingley@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"abXuq2.0.08.ABYmv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16758 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The dark bulb thing was a bit lame as jokes go.... This DHMO thing is really funny!!! At 08:17 AM 9/15/00 -0400, you wrote: >If you think that is reasonable then perhaps you would also like to join >this organization: >http://www.dhmo.org > >Dave > >On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:21:19 -0400 "Chris O'Barr" >writes: > > Okay, so I guess it was a joke...so what. Does no one else think > > the > > idea is feasible? Why not, it makes sense to me... > > -----Original Message----- > > From: 2001 > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Date: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 11:44 PM > > Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt > > > > > > >I failed to notice the word "humor" in this link > > >> >http://www.keelynet.com/humor/darkbulb.txt > > >I guess that explains it! > > > > > >Bil > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Chris O'Barr" > > >To: > > >Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 6:39 PM > > >Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt > > > > > > > > >> Most of the stuff I find on Keelynet if a few years old. So > > I > > >wouldn't > > >> know... > > >> How do you feel about the general electromagnetic idea of it > > though. > > >I > > >> don't know about that peticular design, but the basic > > "endophotonic" idea > > >> sounds reasonable... > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: 2001 > > >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > >> Date: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 9:12 PM > > >> Subject: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt > > >> > > >> > > >> >Available wherever lightbulbs are sold? > > >> >Did this article come out on April 1st? > > >> > > > >> >Bil > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >----- Original Message ----- > > >> >From: "Chris O'Barr" > > >> >To: > > >> >Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 2:53 PM > > >> >Subject: [FG]: darkbulb.txt > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >http://www.keelynet.com/humor/darkbulb.txt > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >============================================ >dave.tingley@juno.com >http://dave_tingley.tripod.com >The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to >the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 07:11:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA23524; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 07:10:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 07:10:40 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990215214544.009b8420@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:05:17 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt In-Reply-To: <000801c01dec$b1412da0$48d666ce@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"gtkY_3.0.Tl5.VtYmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16759 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Most people don't know this but the contraction "Science fiction" immediately follows the word "Science" in the websters... The relationship is singular with "Scientist" and "Scientology" (also immediately followed by the hyphenated "Sci-fi") This is probably just a bazaar coincidence of the spelling similarity. The dark bulb (as depicted on Keelynet) is no coincidence. it is a deliberate fabrication intended to gain the snickers and chuckles of those who fathom the principle. You might note the path name content "/humor/" At 09:39 PM 9/13/00 -0400, you wrote: > Most of the stuff I find on Keelynet if a few years old. So I wouldn't >know... > How do you feel about the general electromagnetic idea of it though. I >don't know about that peticular design, but the basic "endophotonic" idea >sounds reasonable... >-----Original Message----- >From: 2001 >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 9:12 PM >Subject: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt > > > >Available wherever lightbulbs are sold? > >Did this article come out on April 1st? > > > >Bil > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Chris O'Barr" > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 2:53 PM > >Subject: [FG]: darkbulb.txt > > > > > > > > > >http://www.keelynet.com/humor/darkbulb.txt > > > > > > Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 10:15:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA24465; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:14:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:14:19 -0700 Message-ID: <01C01EFE.69280210@istf-1-26.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:19:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01C01EFE.692E1C90" Resent-Message-ID: <"dfuBc3.0.yz5.gZbmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16760 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt ------ =_NextPart_000_01C01EFE.692E1C90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, if you're going to get etiological about it,=20 it may be worth pointing out that this whole=20 "dark bulb" thread is very closely related to the term "dim bulb". btw, do they sell bulbs in your bazaar? And please don't take this = personally, but you might want to retract your contraction "science = fiction"; your citation is antonymous. Playing with words is one game where it's safer if your gun is loaded = ;-) For those who don't auto-load, don't panic, there's http://www.dictionary.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Charles Ford=20 Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 8:05 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt Most people don't know this but the contraction "Science fiction" = immediately follows the word "Science" in the websters... The relationship is = singular=20 with "Scientist" and "Scientology" (also immediately followed by the = hyphenated=20 "Sci-fi") This is probably just a bazaar coincidence of the spelling similarity. The dark bulb (as depicted on Keelynet) is no coincidence. it is a=20 deliberate fabrication intended to gain the snickers and chuckles of those who fathom the=20 principle. 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In this cosmology, there are no light sources; only dark absorbers. You don't turn ON a light; you turn OFF a dark absorber. (Please note this is a JOKE, too!) Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 12:48:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18533; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:42:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:42:30 -0700 Message-ID: <007f01c01f4d$cc87f960$842d22d0@creekelectric.com> From: "Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:47:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"yIH3P.0.QX4.bkdmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16762 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Dan Quickert wrote: > > > Well, if you're going to get etiological about it, > > it may be worth pointing out that this whole > > "dark bulb" thread is very closely related to the term "dim bulb". > > > > Reminds me of "darkeology" which was being discussed in some circles a few > years ago. In this cosmology, there are no light sources; only dark > absorbers. You don't turn ON a light; you turn OFF a dark absorber. > (Please note this is a JOKE, too!) > > Zack Was also refereed to as the "Dark Suck" theory - I remember reading that one for the first time when I was 13 years old in an electrical supply house :-) (That would be 16 years ago... *SIGH*) I knew enough back then to laugh my ass off! They weren't called dark absorbers in that one - they were called dark suckers, which tended to make it even funnier! Back to lurking now.... Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr Author, Boulder Panic!, Boulder Panic! 2 President, MidnightRyder.Com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 13:07:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26627; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:06:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:06:49 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000915150549.00974850@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:06:42 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt In-Reply-To: References: <01C01EFE.69280210@istf-1-26.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"dx0j5.0.yV6.N5emv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16763 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Another fine Arthur. C. Clark hypothisis At 12:30 PM 9/15/00 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Dan Quickert wrote: > > > Well, if you're going to get etiological about it, > > it may be worth pointing out that this whole > > "dark bulb" thread is very closely related to the term "dim bulb". > > > >Reminds me of "darkeology" which was being discussed in some circles a few >years ago. In this cosmology, there are no light sources; only dark >absorbers. You don't turn ON a light; you turn OFF a dark absorber. >(Please note this is a JOKE, too!) > >Zack _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 13:32:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02357; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:31:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:31:22 -0700 Message-ID: <002f01c01f53$80d58f40$41d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:28:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"-c6bO.0.ea.PSemv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16764 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com It seems to me that there are often multiple ways to do the same thing (duh-er). Light can be "emitted" in a great number of ways. Light can be "absorbed" many different ways too. Often, much of the light is "reflected" as well, but not always. Gravity is the first thing that comes to mind that is capable of this, but that is only one way. C'mon, doesn't anyone agree that this "dark buld" thing is feasible? If not, tell me why?! -----Original Message----- From: Charles Ford To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, September 15, 2000 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt >Another fine Arthur. C. Clark hypothisis > >At 12:30 PM 9/15/00 -0500, you wrote: >>On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Dan Quickert wrote: >> >> > Well, if you're going to get etiological about it, >> > it may be worth pointing out that this whole >> > "dark bulb" thread is very closely related to the term "dim bulb". >> > >> >>Reminds me of "darkeology" which was being discussed in some circles a few >>years ago. In this cosmology, there are no light sources; only dark >>absorbers. You don't turn ON a light; you turn OFF a dark absorber. >>(Please note this is a JOKE, too!) >> >>Zack > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 13:41:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA03368; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:39:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.198] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:38:57 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Sep 2000 20:38:58.0013 (UTC) FILETIME=[F8E958D0:01C01F54] Resent-Message-ID: <"ubMo72.0.Kq.Iaemv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16765 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > "dark bulb" thread >Reminds me of "darkeology" which was being discussed in some circles a few >years ago. In this cosmology, there are no light sources; only dark >absorbers. You don't turn ON a light; you turn OFF a dark absorber. >(Please note this is a JOKE, too!) > >Zack I hate to beat a dead horse... But there is some real science here... In science (as in everything ells in life) it is good to be creative... If all you do is fallow a logic path then you will always end up in the same place... So we create mental exercises to get us thinking "out side the box"... I personally like the "imaginary time"... In imaginary time there is no direction as is in real time... So things can happen in either direction... No this dose not really exist... it is just a tool to get one thinking... Once in this mode of free thinking the ideas about time come easily... Write them down... When not in this mood of thinking look at what you have written... Some of the greatest scientific discoveries has come about because of this kind of exercise... There are hundreds of them... Some of them are even main stream science now... "Dark matter" anyone??? ...LOL... Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 14:05:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08029; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:48:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:48:20 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.198] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:47:45 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Sep 2000 20:47:46.0181 (UTC) FILETIME=[33B96350:01C01F56] Resent-Message-ID: <"tkMPW3.0.Mz1.Jiemv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16766 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: "Chris O'Barr" >that this "dark buld" thing is feasible? If not, tell me why?! There is only one answer to this... It has not been done... This dose not mean that it can't be done... just that we don't seem to be able to do it... But you could say that about anything, couldn't you??? Are you a figment of my imagination, or am I one of yours??? Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 14:10:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA01379; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000c01c01f58$b16a7120$f7d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:05:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"HXBdx3.0.RL.F_emv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16767 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com A Descartes fan? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Timothy Flytch To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Friday, September 15, 2000 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt >>From: "Chris O'Barr" > >>that this "dark buld" thing is feasible? If not, tell me why?! > >There is only one answer to this... > >It has not been done... > >This dose not mean that it can't be done... just that we don't seem to be >able to do it... But you could say that about anything, couldn't you??? > >Are you a figment of my imagination, or am I one of yours??? > >Timothy... >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 15:24:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA13221; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:23:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:23:33 -0700 Message-ID: <39C2A5B6.A286B0EB@vossnet.de> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:41:58 +0200 From: WDB X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.71 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Dieter Bauer (rotator) is WRONG ! References: <20000915024253.2590.qmail@nwcst288.netaddress.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"czcCn1.0.PE3.a5gmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16768 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi all! Regarding this theme I give only three rounds of discussion in freenrg-l here. Further discussion only privately ! Alfred Anderson wrote: > Once again, like I stated in my paper, Mr.Bauer uses the conclusions from > ANOTHER system (the driven rotors) to prove his ideas in the braked system. > > At this point I am not interested in other systems, since the energies in > dfferent sytems can be... simply different ! > The method to "transplantate" the strategy to solve a problem from special to common is widespread in mathematics and totally legal. A braked system is not a totally different system from the driven system, but it is a more general system, which contains the friction as one aspect more to take into account ! > > Maybe I don't understand Mr.Bauer's writing. His English is very confusing > and I have to read sentences several times to understand them. Horace Smith helped me to improve the language of the article in the meantime. The HTML article is at http://www.overunity.de/rotator/rotator2.htm and will be improved further regarding this aspect ! > > for example he writes: > "4. Critics following to the last version of this article" > instead of "criticisms following the last version..." > and writes that "position angle rotates " - what the hell is this, German or > English ?! The Internet is international. Therefore these inconveniences. If you do not accept this you may not read the article. I do my best in this respect of the formulation of the article. More is not possible. > The most important thing is that my line of argument has not been defeated > DIRECTLY and no contradictions were pointed out. Maybe my analysis doesn't > fit the DIFFERENT system, and it doesn't have to fit a DIFFERENT system. O.k., can be done ! In the end of your article from 14.Sept.00 in freenrg-l you wrote Delta E = - Phi' * Theta * n*(n+2) for the energy difference to be applied to the system during the equilization or braking phase . This was identified as Delta E = E_delivered - E_dissipated Now, if this calculation method is correct, it should be possible to apply it to the special case. That is the driven rotors setup where E_dissipated=0. Acc. to my article however is E_delivered =.5 * Theta*n^2*Phi'^2. There are no doubts from A.Anderson ! But then you get an contradiction, because the application of the same calculation method to the special case without friction (E_dissipated =0) breaks down, i.e. the equation Delta_E=E_delivered does not hold for the special case for the driven rotors ! The article of A.Anderson contains further mistakes. First: the factor 0.5 for the kinetic energy is omitted. My article calculates the problem for one rotor, not for two. But in the end the result is compared with mine without taking into account of this fact. Second: The calculation of E_delivered is wrong. The problem of the derivation that the coordinate system is not well defined in the mail. Assume that the brake is implemented at central axis (delta-coordinate in my article) . Then the torque value has to be multiplied by n . For derivation see eq. 14 of my article Assume that it is in the alpha system, then the braking path has to be multiplied by n due to the lever action of the gear belt mechanism. In both cases you have the result as calculated in my article eq.40/41. Otherwise, things hold for me as written already > > > >Summarizing, if you take a relation of the type > >> > > >Integral Torque(Angle) dAngle . > >> > > >in order to calculate the applied work you get an overunity result. > >> > > >Anderson, however, regards the applied energies to be calculable like > > >kinetic potential differences (see first Delta E calculation in his section > > >3 on page 2). It is clear: if you think so, you get in an driven belt system > > >> a zero energy balance and in a braked system a loss. > >> > > >I know this way of argumentation very well in the meantime. Here, you get > out only > >> results you inserted before by the ansatz. > >> > > >In my article it is avoided a priori to assume a potential property of the > > >applied energy. > > >Only if you do so you can make a decision by calculation. > > Sincerely > > Dieter Bauer > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 16:32:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA07513; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:32:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:32:05 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:31:15 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_c5.9416bb6.26f40b43_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"LOMWE1.0.Er1.r5hmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16769 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Fwd: Does lighting bolt have CEMF? --part1_c5.9416bb6.26f40b43_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_c5.9416bb6.26f40b43_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: HLafonte@aol.com Full-name: HLafonte Message-ID: <23.f7f014.26f3e37c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:41:32 EDT Subject: Does lighting bolt have CEMF? To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 What do you think? Does a lighting bolt experience counter electromotive force? Does it follow the same principles as current in a wire? Is there a "back emf" as the bolt jumps from cloud to ground or ground to cloud? If not, is this overunity? Thanks, Butch LaFonte --part1_c5.9416bb6.26f40b43_boundary-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 17:18:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA22506; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:12:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:12:46 -0700 Message-ID: <00cd01c01f71$383a8a60$313efea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:01:06 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"CrfQE1.0.YV5.-hhmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16770 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com That is interesting. Whats happens in a total darkness to the light? The total darkness in my opinion would be akin to the black hole. So?.... Anna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Flytch" To: Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt > > > "dark bulb" thread > > >Reminds me of "darkeology" which was being discussed in some circles a few > >years ago. In this cosmology, there are no light sources; only dark > >absorbers. You don't turn ON a light; you turn OFF a dark absorber. > >(Please note this is a JOKE, too!) > > > >Zack > > > I hate to beat a dead horse... But there is some real science here... > In science (as in everything ells in life) it is good to be creative... If > all you do is fallow a logic path then you will always end up in the same > place... > > So we create mental exercises to get us thinking "out side the box"... > > I personally like the "imaginary time"... > In imaginary time there is no direction as is in real time... So things can > happen in either direction... No this dose not really exist... it is just a > tool to get one thinking... Once in this mode of free thinking the ideas > about time come easily... Write them down... When not in this mood of > thinking look at what you have written... > > Some of the greatest scientific discoveries has come about because of this > kind of exercise... There are hundreds of them... Some of them are even main > stream science now... "Dark matter" anyone??? ...LOL... > > > > Timothy... > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 17:45:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA31815; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:44:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:44:23 -0700 Message-ID: <003e01c01f77$9e648150$d2793b8e@robone> From: "Rob Polley" To: "energy21" , , References: <23.f7f014.26f3e37c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:46:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"thdfE3.0.ym7.d9imv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16771 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: [energy21] Does lighting bolt have CEMF? Interesting question.... I wonder if perhaps thunder might be a manifestation of either a CEMF or a colapsing magnetic field. Several years ago I had the experience of sitting beside a window in a restaurant when lightening struck a metal fence about 6 feet a way. It was quite the experience! Two things were very interesting, firstly the color, I would have expected a white or blue but the color was pink. Secondly the sound was a loud hissing sound, nothing resembling thunder at all that close. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 2:41 PM Subject: [energy21] Does lighting bolt have CEMF? > energy21 - http://energy21.terrashare.com > > What do you think? Does a lighting bolt experience counter electromotive > force? > Does it follow the same principles as current in a wire? Is there a "back > emf" as the bolt jumps from cloud to ground or ground to cloud? If not, is > this overunity? > Thanks, > Butch LaFonte > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, write to energy21-unsubscribe@listbot.com > > Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com/links/joinlb > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 18:06:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA07885; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:05:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:05:57 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.211] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: darkbulb.txt Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:05:25 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Sep 2000 01:05:25.0961 (UTC) FILETIME=[32789B90:01C01F7A] Resent-Message-ID: <"km6bJ3.0.2x1.qTimv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16772 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: "Anna M*" >That is interesting. Whats happens in a total darkness to the light? The >total darkness in my opinion would be akin to the black hole. So?.... >Anna Ok Anna, To start with this is a mental exercise... So don't try to make this happen just "think it"... To start with... would the light opposite universe(LOU) be dark??? Imagine a sun that absorbs light... Where would the light come from for it to absorb??? In the real universe(RU) we see where light goes... as light hits the back of my hand some of it gives up it's energy as heat... So in LOU the heat would gain energy and become light... Where would it gain this energy from??? Well Lets see... In RU light looses energy by... ... I REALLY DON'T HAVE THE TIME RIGHT NOW TO FINNISH THIS... HAVE TO TAKE MY SON'S TO SCOUTS... AND I DON'T THINK I COULD FINNISH THIS IN LESS THAN 1500 WORDS... LOL... But I hope this will get you started... We take so many things for granted that we never ask "the" questions... Not even from ourselves... Thinking backwards lets us understand what we do know and what we really need to learn... But most importantly it lets us see the holes in the logic that we could never see if we only thought out the problem forwards... Have fun with this... It really is an amazing tool... Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 18:14:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA12878; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:13:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:13:49 -0700 Message-ID: <39C2CB47.10A27E05@csrlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 21:22:15 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: ozone References: <200009142022.GAA03009@turbo.turboweb.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KGV8C1.0.793.Dbimv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16773 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com is that a good thing? MJ Allan Alderson wrote: > On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:37:15 -0400, Mike Johnston wrote: > > > >I've always wanted to > >> go to the North Pole to see if there was a big hole there too > [snip] > > A lot of talk about the north pole hole . Here in Aus. we get lots info > about a UV index 'cause I think our hole's bigger than your hole ;-) > > - Allan. > ---- ---- ---- ---- > > Please reply with a 'plain text' message. > adsaa@turboweb.net.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 19:59:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA06871; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001701c01f88$d6924f60$0e3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <23.f7f014.26f3e37c@aol.com> <003e01c01f77$9e648150$d2793b8e@robone> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:50:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"zo86Q3.0.7h1.27kmv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16774 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Re: [energy21] Does lighting bolt have CEMF? Well, in one sense, there is generally never just a single lightning stroke. The study of lightning has many counterintuitive aspects. The process (supposedly) starts with a separation of charges between earth and cloud, or from cloud to cloud. Electron avalanche ensues, and a weak low current arc jumps between the two points (lets stay with cloud to earth). The ionized path now formed, (they call this the dart leader) there is next the high current energy dump we normally associate with lightning, the return stroke. Then things get weird, as charges reverse, and we end up with a series of strokes and current returns, back and forth, until a state close enough to equilibrium is achieved and the regions have dropped below a minimum potential. In this sense, lightning may be modelled as a severely damped oscillator. Low Q. Maybe like a Tesla coil set up as an impact transmitter. As far as counter EMF, maybe an analogue would be to consider a lightning bolt to be like a coil in series with a high voltage supply and a spark gap. We raise potential to the point where an arc occurs, and we have a current surge through the coil. However, the counter EMF from the coil is not enough to bridge the gap in the opposite polarity. So what happens to the energy? I suspect it merely leaks off in a number of paths, as leakage current to ground, or by ion convection, unless your coil had a high value of C to boot. In which case it would store it.. At any rate, I think if one understands that model, then you could say what happens to CEMF from lightning. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Polley" To: "energy21" ; ; Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 8:46 PM Subject: [FG]: Re: [energy21] Does lighting bolt have CEMF? > Interesting question.... I wonder if perhaps thunder might be a > manifestation of either a CEMF or a colapsing magnetic field. Several years > ago I had the experience of sitting beside a window in a restaurant when > lightening struck a metal fence about 6 feet a way. It was quite the > experience! Two things were very interesting, firstly the color, I would > have expected a white or blue but the color was pink. Secondly the sound > was a loud hissing sound, nothing resembling thunder at all that close. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; ; > Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 2:41 PM > Subject: [energy21] Does lighting bolt have CEMF? > > > > energy21 - http://energy21.terrashare.com > > > > What do you think? Does a lighting bolt experience counter electromotive > > force? > > Does it follow the same principles as current in a wire? Is there a "back > > emf" as the bolt jumps from cloud to ground or ground to cloud? If not, > is > > this overunity? > > Thanks, > > Butch LaFonte > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, write to energy21-unsubscribe@listbot.com > > > > Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com/links/joinlb > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 15 22:05:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15276; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:00:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:00:20 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:59:43 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA15209 Resent-Message-ID: <"L6pZG1.0.Xk3.avlmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16775 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Dingle Hi, Perhaps the next person to visit Dingle could take a Geiger counter to see if the exhaust of his car is radioactive while running? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 16 03:11:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA27231; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 03:10:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 03:10:27 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 10:09:43 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Sender-Ip: 213.40.24.228 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5w3s61.0.Kf6.JSqmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16776 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: [FG] Gravity darkbulb Heh, what about a darkbulb that absorbs grav radiation? It'd be like a really cheap System-G! Why are we paying so much attention to a fictitious device though? Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 16 06:48:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA32460; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 06:47:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 06:47:43 -0700 Message-ID: <39C37C04.730A874F@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 09:56:21 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Dingle References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oj_lC1.0.5x7.-dtmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16777 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com why? because of what it said in that post this week about deuterium? That was silly. Any electrolysis produces deuterium simply because deuterium and tritium don't electrolyze but their concentration in water is so small as to make the effect unimportant except for the fact that over prolonged electrolysis the concentrations would build up. MJ Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > Hi, > > Perhaps the next person to visit Dingle could take a Geiger counter to see > if the exhaust of his car is radioactive while running? > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do > to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 16 09:42:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA09095; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 09:41:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 09:41:53 -0700 Message-ID: <39C3A186.4B4C9BDF@harti.com> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 18:36:22 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Dingle X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <39C37C04.730A874F@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fISef3.0.yD2.GBwmv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16778 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I guess this was just a guess of the reporter, who did not have much knowledge of the car.. I guess here is also more the Neutrinolysis from Shad at work. read about in http://www.egroups.com/messages/jlnlabs and do a search for waterpower Best regards, Stefan. Mike Johnston schrieb: > > why? because of what it said in that post this week about deuterium? That was > silly. Any electrolysis produces deuterium simply because deuterium and > tritium don't electrolyze but their concentration in water is so small as to > make the effect unimportant except for the fact that over prolonged > electrolysis the concentrations would build up. > MJ > > Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Perhaps the next person to visit Dingle could take a Geiger counter to see > > if the exhaust of his car is radioactive while running? > > > > Regards, > > > > Robin van Spaandonk > > > > It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do > > to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 16 15:34:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA29061; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:33:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:33:19 -0700 Message-ID: <39C3F2F0.99C08607@harti.com> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 00:23:44 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List X-Priority: 2 (High) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KkOGT3.0.w57.lK_mv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16779 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: New Sweet VTA paper posted ! Hi All, I have put the new paper, which was posted on the JLNLABS egroups site onto my new overunity server at: http://overunity.terrashare.com Check it out, it is very interesting and describes the lattice twisting in a BaFe magnet, which was special conditioned by Sweet. Now the secrets of the VTA get more and more known... -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com info@ccard.net http://ccard.net fuer Ihren Verkauf im WEB ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 16 15:58:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03027; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:57:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:57:49 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Dingle Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 09:57:15 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <39C37C04.730A874F@csrlink.net> In-Reply-To: <39C37C04.730A874F@csrlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA03001 Resent-Message-ID: <"xpA8L2.0.Cl.ih_mv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16780 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Sat, 16 Sep 2000 09:56:21 -0400: >why? because of what it said in that post this week about deuterium? That was >silly. Any electrolysis produces deuterium simply because deuterium and >tritium don't electrolyze but their concentration in water is so small as to >make the effect unimportant except for the fact that over prolonged >electrolysis the concentrations would build up. >MJ [snip] No, I wasn't thinking of the deuterium, I was thinking of O15 formed by the reaction N14 + H[1/10 ?] -> O15 + 7.2 MeV. The O15 is a positron emitter with a half-life of about 2 mins. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 16 19:09:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA02405; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 19:08:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 19:08:49 -0700 Message-ID: <39C42981.6B3E4D2@csrlink.net> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 22:16:33 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Dingle References: <39C37C04.730A874F@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e0Xb11.0.Ub.mU2nv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16781 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Robin, Just to clarify, I didn't mean that your post was silly. I meant that the "news" story quoted in the post described classical water electrolysis as though it was some great invention. Also it mentioned Dingle's inventing the water car some 20 years ago. MJ Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Sat, 16 Sep 2000 09:56:21 -0400: > > >why? because of what it said in that post this week about deuterium? That was > >silly. Any electrolysis produces deuterium simply because deuterium and > >tritium don't electrolyze but their concentration in water is so small as to > >make the effect unimportant except for the fact that over prolonged > >electrolysis the concentrations would build up. > >MJ > [snip] > No, I wasn't thinking of the deuterium, I was thinking of O15 formed by the > reaction N14 + H[1/10 ?] -> O15 + 7.2 MeV. > The O15 is a positron emitter with a half-life of about 2 mins. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do > to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 16 20:10:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA12498; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 20:09:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 20:09:25 -0700 From: patrick@roney.to Date: 17 Sep 2000 03:09:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20000917030918.30510.qmail@www1.nameplanet.com> To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PySVO3.0.033.bN3nv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16782 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: the right stuff Am looking for information on the 'Foucault Pendulum'. Am I in the right place? thnx -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://NamePlanet.com/?su From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 16 21:12:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA23553; Sat, 16 Sep 2000 21:12:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 21:12:14 -0700 Message-ID: <015701c0205b$d57fa900$b867fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: , , , Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 21:00:31 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"PNezJ1.0.rl5.UI4nv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16783 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: COLLIDING GALAXES 'FEED' BLACK HOLES Or perhaps it is the light that feeds black holes transforming photons into the matter. Anna > COLLIDING GALAXES 'FEED' BLACK HOLES > > New evidence presented in this week's edition of the journal > Science suggests that the process that feeds supermassive black > holes may be linked to galaxy formation. John Kormendy, a > researcher at the University of Texas at Austin, says that Hubble > Space Telescope surveys have uncovered these giant black holes in > all galaxies with an elliptical galaxy-type component, called a > 'bulge,' which forms when galaxies collide and merge. The new > analysis suggests that this merger may provide fuel for the major > growth phases of the giant black hole, although the exact timing > of the black hole's growth compared to galaxy formation remains > uncertain. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Copyright 2000 by United Press International. > All rights reserved. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 17 19:11:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA10700; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:10:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:10:05 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: rick@highsurf.com Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 20:38:56 -0700 Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity update Message-ID: <20000917.191145.-412047.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"eZs1j3.0._c2.zbNnv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16784 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >Rick Monteverde said: >But if the effect lasted longer but was weaker as well, then perhaps >it's related to the slow *discharge* of separated charges and not >just the simple presence of charges in the static sense. Slowing the >discharge rate with drier materials might then lower the magnitude of >the effect. I'm still thinking that it might be the transfer of >charges that makes these 'antigravity' effects appear. >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI Perhaps this has something to do with the Hutchinson effect. Apparently one common fact with Hutchinson is charges air. Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 17 22:02:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA11489; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:59:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:59:13 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 00:58:36 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"QP1pY.0.Mp2.X4Qnv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16785 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: LaFonte Research Group site updated Hello all, Commutator design and pictures of LRG prototype on web site now. Commutator will have timing adjustment of 15 to 20 degrees. Bob is working on it and I will post pictures of it when it is complete. I now have scope and will be running test this week. Note: The drive motor shown in the pictures is just for turning the rotor to see wave patterns produced by the magnets alone at different RPM. The RPM is controlled during this period by putting a home light dimmer on AC input side of a second battery charger that powers the car cooling fan motor. The rotor will run on it's own power for overunity testing with the drive belt removed by using the 12 VDC car battery charger with 12 VDC car battery as ballast. See web page for timing sequence and theory of operation. If voltage/current is the same when the rotor is turning and when the rotor is not turning, then the pull of the magnet to the ferrite in the coils when the circuit is open, is overunity. A week or so of testing should tell. Thanks, Butch LaFonte http://members.a ol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm WORD OF CAUTION! I do not know how high the RPM can go before the mass of the magnets (which are super strong rare earth magnets) will cause the rotor structure to "fly apart." Please, if you are building one of these, take precautions to safeguard your self and others. I see no reason to go past 1000 RPM for testing. Also I'm sure you already know about the dangers of long hair and these kind of devices. Keep children locked out from this device, running or not running. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 18 01:34:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA10036; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:34:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:33:57 -0700 Message-ID: <000101c0210a$51382f00$5fb622cf@a9o0z0> From: "Alik S" To: Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 11:23:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C02099.A9800B40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Eg_7x2.0.fS2.rDTnv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16786 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: ceramic_sheets This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C02099.A9800B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Those of you in Seattle may want to take a look at a box of thin ceramic = sheets (1/16 x4" x4" or so ) that Warren at VETCO has. Could be useful = for all sorts of high-V / antigrav / you-name it / experiments. He is = selling them for $1 and there are at least 100 left as of Saturday. They = came out of some HV ozone gizmo. Alik S. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C02099.A9800B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Those of you in Seattle may want to = take a look=20 at a box of thin ceramic sheets (1/16 x4" x4" or so ) that = Warren at=20 VETCO has. Could be useful for all sorts of high-V / antigrav / you-name = it /=20 experiments. He is selling them for $1 and there are at least 100 left = as of=20 Saturday. They came out of some HV ozone gizmo.
 
Alik S.
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C02099.A9800B40-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 18 06:08:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA08396; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 06:05:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 06:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39C612FA.6460EC95@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 06:04:58 -0700 From: eks1 Reply-To: eks1@earthlink.net Organization: Systems Research Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <39342bc6.3170.0@enter.net> <39342F47.9BB08078@earthlink.net> <3935AB4B.96D481@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EJhFl2.0.y22.4CXnv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16787 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re:JPL hydrogen car Mike Johnston wrote: > Hi eks, > Didn't JPL realize when making that H2 powered car that to eliminate the H2 > embrittlement they would have to effect complete combustion of the H2? The easiest way to > do that would be to burn it with the O2 that is released from the water with it. If you > made a special injector with it' own combustion or pre combustion chamber you could get > complete combustion and overcome that problem. > MJ Mike- Actually we found that some H2 embrittlment is going to happen no matter what! The best we could achieve was to minimize the effects by using mono-atomic H (as in Brown's Gas) along with air, in a combustion chamber made from the best of the Austinetic Alloy stainless steel. But I digress - combustion engines are a dead or dying art, look for a breakthru soon in the area of Etheric Currents ala Correa's work or Chernetski's Plasma - you heard it here first! ;) -- --- "When it comes to paradigms, you must shift for yourself!" - Anon |-----------------------| | Systems Research Ltd. |------->"Any real-world system is more.. |-----------------------| ..than the mere sum of it's parts!" Erik K. Sorgatz (KB6LUY) http://home.earthlink.net/~eks1 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 18 07:14:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA13549; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 07:12:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 07:12:13 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000918091006.0095e8b0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:10:46 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: ceramic_sheets In-Reply-To: <000101c0210a$51382f00$5fb622cf@a9o0z0> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"oyVci1.0.YJ3.zAYnv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16788 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 11:23 AM 9/17/00 +0000, you wrote: >Those of you in Seattle may want to take a look at a box of thin ceramic >sheets (1/16 x4" x4" or so ) that Warren at VETCO has. Could be useful for >all sorts of high-V / antigrav / you-name it / experiments. He is selling >them for $1 and there are at least 100 left as of Saturday. They came out >of some HV ozone gizmo. > >Alik S. Question is how big and can they be shipped? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 18 09:04:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA29721; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 08:58:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 08:58:44 -0700 Message-ID: <000401c02148$73bcf860$3cb622cf@a9o0z0> From: "Alik S" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: ceramic_sheets Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 08:14:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"SCzWf1.0.HG7.qkZnv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16789 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I saw 2 sizes, one about 4" square and what looked like 2"x3" , all 1/16" thick . This is approximate by memory. I see no reason why he can't ship them, phone them (I have nothing to do with Vetco other than visiting the place). Alik S. -----Original Message----- From: Charles Ford To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, September 18, 2000 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: ceramic_sheets >At 11:23 AM 9/17/00 +0000, you wrote: >>Those of you in Seattle may want to take a look at a box of thin ceramic >>sheets (1/16 x4" x4" or so ) that Warren at VETCO has. Could be useful for >>all sorts of high-V / antigrav / you-name it / experiments. He is selling >>them for $1 and there are at least 100 left as of Saturday. They came out >>of some HV ozone gizmo. >> >>Alik S. > >Question is how big and can they be shipped? > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 18 14:01:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA11397; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 14:00:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 14:00:29 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c021b2$8e17e5c0$74736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 13:53:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C02177.E0AE0660" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"MzEvP3.0.tn2.j9env"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16790 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: practical antigravity craft This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C02177.E0AE0660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable what is the most practical antigravity motor, generator or coils to use = on lets say a car or van or truck and make it fly 100-300 mph cruise = speed and not be subject to inertia when it maybe pulls up 20g's or = more and requires very little energy to fly? ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C02177.E0AE0660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
what is the most practical antigravity motor, = generator or=20 coils to use on lets say a car or van or truck and make it fly 100-300 = mph=20 cruise speed and not be subject to inertia  when it maybe pulls up = 20g's or=20 more and requires very little energy to fly?
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C02177.E0AE0660-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 18 14:41:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26326; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 14:37:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 14:37:38 -0700 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:37:33 -0400 Message-Id: <200009182137.RAA28975@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Resent-Message-ID: <"1ZERD3.0.FR6.Yienv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16791 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >what is the most practical antigravity motor, generator or coils to use on lets say a car or van or truck and make it fly 100-300 mph cruise speed and not be subject to inertia when it maybe pulls up 20g's or more and requires very little energy to fly? http://go.to/jlnlabs gives a pretty good description of the Glow Panel Discharge device that Jean-Louis built for his ARDA project. Professor J. Reece Roth of the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, has published some papers on this. http://oaugdp.engr.utk.edu/plasma/roth.htm A good number of the papers can be found online in the publication section of this website: http://plasma.ee.utk.edu This is not considered to be a-grav yet, exactly, but it does work in atmosphere, and has been tested by a good number of people with good results. I am also working on a way to make it into a power supply. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 18 16:21:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA03540; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:20:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:20:22 -0700 Message-ID: <20000918231946.5936.qmail@web4406.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:19:46 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"p9wO61.0.xs.rCgnv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16792 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Ohio Teslathon I hosted this event on Sept 16th and have put up a preliminary web page at http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/teslathon.html Sincerely HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 18 19:45:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA11848; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:44:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:44:50 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990220214439.009efaa0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:45:20 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [energy21] Does lighting bolt have CEMF? In-Reply-To: <003e01c01f77$9e648150$d2793b8e@robone> References: <23.f7f014.26f3e37c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"QWXFn3.0.1v2.YCjnv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16793 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 06:46 PM 9/15/00 -0600, you wrote: Yes but it still hurts like a mother ##### Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 18 19:57:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA17615; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:56:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:56:18 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990220215248.00989d10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:56:34 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft In-Reply-To: <000801c021b2$8e17e5c0$74736bc6@compaq> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"ZaNQ33.0.3J4.HNjnv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16794 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Um... One that actually works..... As for now I suspect that 20G acceleration would moderately damaging to the driver / pilot and the vichale. At 01:53 PM 9/18/00 -0700, you wrote: >what is the most practical antigravity motor, generator or coils to use on >lets say a car or van or truck and make it fly 100-300 mph cruise speed >and not be subject to inertia when it maybe pulls up 20g's or more and >requires very little energy to fly? Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 18 21:51:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA19984; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:51:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:51:08 -0700 Message-ID: <008301c021f4$2eeb8e20$75736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990220215248.00989d10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:43:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"uYa0Q1.0.8u4.x2lnv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16795 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com THANK YOU CHUCK YOU ARE A REAL BIG HELP TOO LIKE ANNA AND JACK. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Ford" To: Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 8:56 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > Um... One that actually works..... As for now I suspect that 20G > acceleration would moderately damaging to the driver / pilot and the vichale. > > > > At 01:53 PM 9/18/00 -0700, you wrote: > >what is the most practical antigravity motor, generator or coils to use on > >lets say a car or van or truck and make it fly 100-300 mph cruise speed > >and not be subject to inertia when it maybe pulls up 20g's or more and > >requires very little energy to fly? > > Charlie Ford > cjford1@yahoo.com > cjford1@swbell.net > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 01:14:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA08818; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 01:10:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 01:10:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003801c02211$7f7c12c0$153dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990220215248.00989d10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <008301c021f4$2eeb8e20$75736bc6@compaq> Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 04:13:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"7Yw6i.0.h92.iznnv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16796 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mr. Webber; Please understand that in theory, the properties of an antigravity drive you mention are desirable, and might be possible by some sort of an inertial or gravity shield effect. But in practice, no-one has built one yet - at least that they have openly shared or that has been successfully replicated. A number of us are trying as amateur and professional scientists, believe me. But unless you buy into the unreplicated claims that fly around on the internet and pop literature; it really ain't happened yet. Perhaps you have your own experiments you would like to share? NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "edward webber" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 12:43 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > THANK YOU CHUCK YOU ARE A REAL BIG HELP TOO LIKE ANNA AND JACK. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Ford" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 8:56 PM > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > Um... One that actually works..... As for now I suspect that 20G > > acceleration would moderately damaging to the driver / pilot and the > vichale. > > > > > > > > At 01:53 PM 9/18/00 -0700, you wrote: > > >what is the most practical antigravity motor, generator or coils to use > on > > >lets say a car or van or truck and make it fly 100-300 mph cruise speed > > >and not be subject to inertia when it maybe pulls up 20g's or more and > > >requires very little energy to fly? > > > > Charlie Ford > > cjford1@yahoo.com > > cjford1@swbell.net > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 01:43:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA10623; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 01:38:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 01:38:13 -0700 Message-ID: <000801c02213$e96afdc0$75736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990220215248.00989d10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <008301c021f4$2eeb8e20$75736bc6@compaq> <003801c02211$7f7c12c0$153dee3f@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 01:30:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"HmDk22.0.ub2.rNonv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16797 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com no i have none and i wish i had and yes i believe there are many that have developed in in secret but are not willing to share yet maybe because they cannot get a patent and want one so they can be a tycoon and wealthy and or they are afraid of if they do come out with it they are gonna be discredited and or jailed or shot dead. the list goes on. i think they should just release what they have annonymousely but that is a tall order and too much to ask maybe. what do you think? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Reiter" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 1:13 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > Mr. Webber; > > Please understand that in theory, the properties of an antigravity drive you > mention are desirable, and might be possible by some sort of an inertial or > gravity shield effect. But in practice, no-one has built one yet - at least > that they have openly shared or that has been successfully replicated. A > number of us are trying as amateur and professional scientists, believe me. > But unless you buy into the unreplicated claims that fly around on the > internet and pop literature; it really ain't happened yet. > Perhaps you have your own experiments you would like to share? > > NR > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "edward webber" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 12:43 AM > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > THANK YOU CHUCK YOU ARE A REAL BIG HELP TOO LIKE ANNA AND JACK. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Charles Ford" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 8:56 PM > > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > > > > Um... One that actually works..... As for now I suspect that 20G > > > acceleration would moderately damaging to the driver / pilot and the > > vichale. > > > > > > > > > > > > At 01:53 PM 9/18/00 -0700, you wrote: > > > >what is the most practical antigravity motor, generator or coils to use > > on > > > >lets say a car or van or truck and make it fly 100-300 mph cruise speed > > > >and not be subject to inertia when it maybe pulls up 20g's or more and > > > >requires very little energy to fly? > > > > > > Charlie Ford > > > cjford1@yahoo.com > > > cjford1@swbell.net > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 02:20:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA11901; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 02:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 02:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003f01c0221b$2a851500$233dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990220215248.00989d10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <008301c021f4$2eeb8e20$75736bc6@compaq> <003801c02211$7f7c12c0$153dee3f@default> <000801c02213$e96afdc0$75736bc6@compaq> Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 05:22:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"uyy9P3.0.lv2.e-onv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16798 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "edward webber" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > no i have none and i wish i had and yes i believe there are many that have > developed in in secret but are not willing to share yet maybe because they > cannot get a patent and want one so they can be a tycoon and wealthy and or > they are afraid of if they do come out with it they are gonna be discredited > and or jailed or shot dead. the list goes on. i think they should just > release what they have annonymousely but that is a tall order and too much > to ask maybe. what do you think? ************ I agree. And it is how I have conducted my own experiments. I work at my day job in as honorable a capacity as I can. I earn my daily bread that way, a decent salary, and it keeps the kids fed and the spouse happy. I have no aspirations to get rich from antigravity. I may not be the one to make the gravity breakthrough, but the little experiments along the way that give some occasional hopeful results, I share with my fellow scientists. I want my kids and grand kids to be able to get off this rock in a quick and easy way if they have to. Thats payment enough. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 13:20:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA13148; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:19:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:19:27 -0700 Message-ID: <004701c02275$db2c3780$72736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990220215248.00989d10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <008301c021f4$2eeb8e20$75736bc6@compaq> <003801c02211$7f7c12c0$153dee3f@default> <000801c02213$e96afdc0$75736bc6@compaq> <003f01c0221b$2a851500$233dee3f@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:11:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"uIvtC3.0.KD3.Efynv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16799 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com that is very admirable nick. what about the bigger kids like us adults that are living now and i want to make a point here nick and i do not want to sound like i am putting you down but it is this attitude that everyone or most everyone in the alternate sci commumity appear to have of "oh well it wont happen in our life time". this is why i have been getting mad in here lately because we got people in here and on other forums or groups who seem to have this attitude maybe of oh not in our life time but 70 to 100's of years from now. well yah at this rate it probably will be that long with this approach they have to freenrgy, anti-gravity that makes it look to me as it just is a hobby to them. it is not a hobby to me. i am very serious about and i hope that i am not the onlyperson who wants it within my lifetime maybe before i turn 40-50. and i think that all of us could have this aircar propulsion with in 10 years if we stopped this tendancy of going off on these tangents of "oh no that idea wont work but mine will" and so they are like the person that judges a book from its cover because think they have been there and done that and they are not much different the very skeptical and scoffing narrow minded physicist who is set in his ways and devoted or enslaved by his own ignorance and i am not like that. i am opened minded and not like alot of people i have met online that seem to be so pessimistic and negative. if we changed our attitude maybe important and huge breakthroughs might occur to advance our knowledge greatly. people like michio kaku and other very classicaly trained skeptics of alt science are people i really do not trust because if i had taken kaku up in some ag vehicle, aircar, gravity car that had been working just right he would still maybe doubt it or atleast he and so many other classically or conventionally trained and mainstream scientists will have to go back and re write evertying and it will take years to do that and untill then the powers that be will more than likely ground the ag vehicle because of that or find some excuse to ground it. i think one of the reasons would be economic because the airline industry would be the first industry being hit by the ecomonic impact of the gravity or aircar. just think of hundreds of pilots, mechanics and other employees of airlines who would be out of work because more and more people, after the aircar is then introduced, will learn that it is so much cheaper and easier jumping into their ag suv, or minivan , auto and going to their destination than hassling with the airliners. i think that what i am trying to say her is that it is like walking on hot coal and or laying down on a bed of nails and not getting injured because we attune our minds or trick our minds into not being hurt. i see it the same with this quest for gravity control or free nrg. we need to be more positive about it and stop thinking to ourselves that "it will not be for hundreds of years untill we discover it and develop or advance it" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Reiter" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 2:22 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "edward webber" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:30 AM > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > no i have none and i wish i had and yes i believe there are many that have > > developed in in secret but are not willing to share yet maybe because they > > cannot get a patent and want one so they can be a tycoon and wealthy and > or > > they are afraid of if they do come out with it they are gonna be > discredited > > and or jailed or shot dead. the list goes on. i think they should just > > release what they have annonymousely but that is a tall order and too much > > to ask maybe. what do you think? > > ************ I agree. And it is how I have conducted my own experiments. > I work at my day job in as honorable a capacity as I can. I earn my daily > bread that way, a decent salary, and it keeps the kids fed and the spouse > happy. I have no aspirations to get rich from antigravity. I may not be > the one to make the gravity breakthrough, but the little experiments along > the way that give some occasional hopeful results, I share with my fellow > scientists. I want my kids and grand kids to be able to get off this rock > in a quick and easy way if they have to. Thats payment enough. > > NR > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 13:39:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA19757; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:33:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:33:21 -0700 Message-ID: <004c01c02277$c9b663c0$72736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990220215248.00989d10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <008301c021f4$2eeb8e20$75736bc6@compaq> <003801c02211$7f7c12c0$153dee3f@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:25:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"z8cAj3.0.bq4.Gsynv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16800 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com hello nick and chuck pleaseexcuse my caps earlier but i want to clear up someting about what i said about anna and jack. i thought they are on this list but they are not i think so disregard what i said about them i got mixed up. they are on another list or newsgroup. sorry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Reiter" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 1:13 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > Mr. Webber; > > Please understand that in theory, the properties of an antigravity drive you > mention are desirable, and might be possible by some sort of an inertial or > gravity shield effect. But in practice, no-one has built one yet - at least > that they have openly shared or that has been successfully replicated. A > number of us are trying as amateur and professional scientists, believe me. > But unless you buy into the unreplicated claims that fly around on the > internet and pop literature; it really ain't happened yet. > Perhaps you have your own experiments you would like to share? > > NR > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "edward webber" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 12:43 AM > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > THANK YOU CHUCK YOU ARE A REAL BIG HELP TOO LIKE ANNA AND JACK. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Charles Ford" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 8:56 PM > > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > > > > Um... One that actually works..... As for now I suspect that 20G > > > acceleration would moderately damaging to the driver / pilot and the > > vichale. > > > > > > > > > > > > At 01:53 PM 9/18/00 -0700, you wrote: > > > >what is the most practical antigravity motor, generator or coils to use > > on > > > >lets say a car or van or truck and make it fly 100-300 mph cruise speed > > > >and not be subject to inertia when it maybe pulls up 20g's or more and > > > >requires very little energy to fly? > > > > > > Charlie Ford > > > cjford1@yahoo.com > > > cjford1@swbell.net > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 16:40:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA11281; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:39:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:39:45 -0700 Message-ID: <20000919233903.430.qmail@web3802.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:39:03 -0700 (PDT) From: micah lloyd Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"pXYoX.0.8m2._a_nv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16801 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- edward webber wrote: > that is very admirable nick. what about the bigger > kids like us adults that > are living now and i want to make a point here nick > and i do not want to > sound like i am putting you down but it is this > attitude that everyone or > most everyone in the alternate sci commumity appear > to have of "oh well it > wont happen in our life time". this is why i have > been getting mad in here > lately because we got people in here and on other > forums or groups who seem > to have this attitude maybe of oh not in our life > time but 70 to 100's of > years from now. well yah at this rate it probably > will be that long with > this approach they have to freenrgy, anti-gravity > that makes it look to me > as it just is a hobby to them. it is not a hobby to > me. i am very serious > about and i hope that i am not the onlyperson who > wants it within my > lifetime maybe before i turn 40-50. and i think that > all of us could have > this aircar propulsion with in 10 years if we > stopped this tendancy of going > off on these tangents of "oh no that idea wont work > but mine will" and so > they are like the person that judges a book from its > cover because think > they have been there and done that and they are not > much different the very > skeptical and scoffing narrow minded physicist who > is set in his ways and > devoted or enslaved by his own ignorance and i am > not like that. i am opened > minded and not like alot of people i have met online > that seem to be so > pessimistic and negative. if we changed our attitude > maybe important and > huge breakthroughs might occur to advance our > knowledge greatly. people > like michio kaku and other very classicaly trained > skeptics of alt science > are people i really do not trust because if i had > taken kaku up in some ag > vehicle, aircar, gravity car that had been working > just right he would still > maybe doubt it or atleast he and so many other > classically or conventionally > trained and mainstream scientists will have to go > back and re write > evertying and it will take years to do that and > untill then the powers that > be will more than likely ground the ag vehicle > because of that or find some > excuse to ground it. i think one of the reasons > would be economic because > the airline industry would be the first industry > being hit by the ecomonic > impact of the gravity or aircar. just think of > hundreds of pilots, mechanics > and other employees of airlines who would be out of > work because more and > more people, after the aircar is then introduced, > will learn that it is so > much cheaper and easier jumping into their ag suv, > or minivan , auto and > going to their destination than hassling with the > airliners. i think that > what i am trying to say her is that it is like > walking on hot coal and or > laying down on a bed of nails and not getting > injured because we attune our > minds or trick our minds into not being hurt. i see > it the same with this > quest for gravity control or free nrg. we need to be > more positive about it > and stop thinking to ourselves that "it will not be > for hundreds of years > untill we discover it and develop or advance it" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nick Reiter" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 2:22 AM > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "edward webber" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > > > > no i have none and i wish i had and yes i > believe there are many that > have > > > developed in in secret but are not willing to > share yet maybe because > they > > > cannot get a patent and want one so they can be > a tycoon and wealthy and > > or > > > they are afraid of if they do come out with it > they are gonna be > > discredited > > > and or jailed or shot dead. the list goes on. i > think they should just > > > release what they have annonymousely but that is > a tall order and too > much > > > to ask maybe. what do you think? > > > > ************ I agree. And it is how I have > conducted my own experiments. > > I work at my day job in as honorable a capacity as > I can. I earn my daily > > bread that way, a decent salary, and it keeps the > kids fed and the spouse > > happy. I have no aspirations to get rich from > antigravity. I may not be > > the one to make the gravity breakthrough, but the > little experiments along > > the way that give some occasional hopeful results, > I share with my fellow > > scientists. I want my kids and grand kids to be > able to get off this rock > > in a quick and easy way if they have to. Thats > payment enough. > > > > NR > > > Hello I think that to much skeptisism is bad and too little is also bad. I am 18yrs old and i plan to have an antigravity car or a spaceship within my lifetime and I am not going to let others skeptisism impeed my progress. I believe anything is possible, and i believe that gravity controll is verry possible. There is a lot of information that people don't know, or is known but not commonly excepted. Micah Lloyd. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 17:52:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA23679; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001201c0229c$73f73fc0$233dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:45:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C0227A.89D58440" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"ySzpc2.0.ln5.PY0ov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16802 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C0227A.89D58440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all; My experiments have continued since my last posting. The weight loss / = gain effect with different materials following ultrasonic agitation has = remained consistent. I am currently about three days behind in the = transcribing of my notes, though, so this is going to be the quickest of = updates. I am still working with the same basic arrangement; Crest ultrasonic = cleaner tank, polycarbonate ampoule with sealing lid, and Stanton = analytical balance. Last week, one of the fine scientists on this list sent me samples of = two materials to try out - from a piezoelectric angle. They were both = finely powdered - SiO2 and BaTiO3. I have tried both. The SiO2 powder = was approximately on par with the 50 micron Al2O3. The BaTiO3 however, = gave better results by a factor of about 8, when calculated on the basis = of weight loss per mole of media! With a quantity of about 60 grams = loaded into the ampoule, I saw a reproducible weight loss of between 20 = and 23 milligrams for a half hour acoustic treatment. However, I am moving further away from an electrostatic or = electro-gravity explanation for this effect. Consider this: 1. With Al2O3, dehydration at 200C before sonic treatment actually = decreased the effect somewhat. 2. The addition of DI H2O to the Al2O3 to the extent that it was a = slurry still gave an effect only slightly less than the out-of-jar = media! 3. However, a control run with only water in the ampoule gave no = effect. 4. While Ti and Sn powders gave fairly low or null results, I am = getting actually a respectable effect with powdered Zn, Te, and Se. = This is a puzzle. 30 micron Al powder, however, gave some results, but = much lower than Zn powder of the same mesh! I do hearken back though to = Brown who said that he had seen the effect with tantalum powder. 5. I tried Al2O3 beads of assorted sizes, up to about 3mm diameter. At = this large size scale, the effect vanishes! Thus, particle diameter = plays a role. One ponders what a matrix of true nano-particles would = do. 6. Today, I found the best material yet for producing the effect - = finely powdered bentonite clay. With 75 grams (approximately .18 mole = for bentonite) I reproduced a weight loss of 35 milligrams, using the = standard procedure. =20 I am beginning to wonder if this effect, which I do believe with more = certainty than ever before, is somehow related to nano-scale solid phase = collisions producing some sort of weird vacuum mode interference. It = doesn't seem to fit a piezo electric pattern, or an electrostatic = pattern. It does not seem to be a thermal artifact. Yet some materials = produce far better results than others. It does seem to depend on = frequency and energy density of acoustic agitation. Maybe there is a = crystal orientation factor. Or something related to modulus of = elasticity. And it is very closely tied to particle size! Wonder what = fullerenes would do in an ultrasonic fluidized bed? At this point, I am taking time out to start a formal document of = this work. One of the prodigious tasks facing me is the placement of = all materials into a master chart, and conversion of the weight loss = numbers to a % change per mole figure. Let us raise a glass, though, to the late Dr. TT Brown, and his = thoughtfulness in recording his observations of this paradoxical effect = 27 years ago... PS - A kindly gratuitous note to Edward and Micah Guys, I really do appreciate your enthusiam. I had it when I was your = age as well. But after years of trying to replicate the claims of = Searl, and Newman, and Seike and others from the flamboyant end of = alt-sci with no success, you get a little crusty. Talk is cheap. = Talking about those who do nothing but talk is even cheaper. I hope you = are the ones to make the breakthrough! What it will take though, is = diligence, and willingness to admit that an effect you have seen MIGHT = just be an artifact. That's real science. Tell you what. Start experimenting now. Buy, build, beg, and borrow = lab equipment. Refuse to believe either the skeptics OR the "true = believers". TRY IT FOR YOURSELF! And share the results please. Or = maybe try replicating something obscure and inexplicable, like = Hutchison's Effect. Bottle that genie and you'll be remembered for = millenia! I look forward to seeing YOUR experimental results here. =20 Sincerely; NR ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C0227A.89D58440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello all;
 
My experiments have continued since my = last=20 posting.  The weight loss / gain effect with different materials = following=20 ultrasonic agitation has remained consistent.  I am currently about = three=20 days behind in the transcribing of my notes, though, so this is going to = be the=20 quickest of updates.
   I am still working with = the same basic=20 arrangement; Crest ultrasonic cleaner tank, polycarbonate ampoule with = sealing=20 lid, and Stanton analytical balance.
 
   Last week, one of the fine = scientists=20 on this list sent me samples of two materials to try out - from a = piezoelectric=20 angle.  They were both finely powdered - SiO2 and BaTiO3.  I = have=20 tried both.  The SiO2 powder was approximately on par with the 50 = micron=20 Al2O3.  The BaTiO3 however, gave better results by a factor of = about 8,=20 when calculated on the basis of weight loss per mole of media!  = With a=20 quantity of about 60 grams loaded into the ampoule, I saw a reproducible = weight=20 loss of between 20 and 23 milligrams for a half hour acoustic=20 treatment.
   However, I am moving = further away from=20 an electrostatic or electro-gravity explanation for this effect.  = Consider=20 this:
 
1.  With Al2O3, dehydration at = 200C before=20 sonic treatment actually decreased the effect somewhat.
2.  The addition of DI H2O to the = Al2O3 to the=20 extent that it was a slurry still gave an effect only slightly less than = the=20 out-of-jar media!
3.  However, a control run with = only water in=20 the ampoule gave no effect.
4.  While Ti and Sn powders gave = fairly low or=20 null results, I am getting actually a respectable effect with powdered = Zn, Te,=20 and Se.  This is a puzzle.  30 micron Al powder, however, gave = some=20 results, but much lower than Zn powder of the same mesh!  I do = hearken back=20 though to Brown who said that he had seen the effect with tantalum=20 powder.
5.  I tried Al2O3 beads of = assorted sizes, up=20 to about 3mm diameter.  At this large size scale, the effect=20 vanishes!  Thus, particle diameter plays a role.  One ponders = what a=20 matrix of true nano-particles would do.
6.  Today, I found the best = material yet for=20 producing the effect - finely powdered bentonite clay.  With 75 = grams=20 (approximately .18 mole for bentonite) I reproduced a weight loss of 35=20 milligrams, using the standard procedure. 
 
   I am beginning to wonder = if this=20 effect, which I do believe with more certainty than ever before, is = somehow=20 related to nano-scale solid phase collisions producing some sort of = weird vacuum=20 mode interference.  It doesn't seem to fit a piezo electric = pattern, or an=20 electrostatic pattern.  It does not seem to be a thermal = artifact. =20 Yet some materials produce far better results than others.  It does = seem to=20 depend on frequency and energy density of acoustic agitation.  = Maybe there=20 is a crystal orientation factor. Or something related to modulus of = elasticity. And it is very closely tied to particle size!  Wonder = what=20 fullerenes would do in an ultrasonic fluidized bed?
 
   At this point, I am taking = time out to=20 start a formal document of this work.  One of the prodigious tasks = facing=20 me is the placement of all materials into a master chart, and conversion = of the=20 weight loss numbers to a % change per mole figure.
 
  Let us raise a glass, though, to = the late=20 Dr. TT Brown, and his thoughtfulness in recording his observations of = this=20 paradoxical effect 27 years ago...
 
 
 
PS - A kindly gratuitous note to Edward = and=20 Micah
 
Guys, I really do appreciate your = enthusiam. =20 I had it when I was your age as well.  But after years of trying to = replicate the claims of Searl, and Newman, and Seike and others from the = flamboyant end of alt-sci with no success, you get a little = crusty.  Talk=20 is cheap.  Talking about those who do nothing but talk is even=20 cheaper.  I hope you are the ones to make the breakthrough!  = What it=20 will take though, is diligence, and willingness to admit that an effect = you have=20 seen MIGHT just be an artifact.  That's real science.
   Tell you what.  Start = experimenting now.  Buy, build, beg, and borrow lab = equipment.  Refuse=20 to believe either the skeptics OR the "true believers".  TRY IT FOR = YOURSELF!  And share the results please.  Or maybe try = replicating=20 something obscure and inexplicable, like Hutchison's Effect.  = Bottle that=20 genie and you'll be remembered for millenia!
   I look forward to seeing = YOUR=20 experimental results here. 
 
Sincerely;
 
NR
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C0227A.89D58440-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 17:58:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA01713; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:58:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:58:17 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c0229e$3e515a70$d2793b8e@robone> From: "Rob Polley" To: References: <20000919233903.430.qmail@web3802.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:01:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"imceb1.0.fQ.ek0ov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16803 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Micah, I expect to see it in my lifetime too, and I am in my 50's ----- Original Message ----- From: "micah lloyd" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > --- edward webber wrote: > > that is very admirable nick. what about the bigger > > kids like us adults that > > are living now and i want to make a point here nick > > and i do not want to > > sound like i am putting you down but it is this > > attitude that everyone or > > most everyone in the alternate sci commumity appear > > to have > Hello I think that to much skeptisism is bad and too > little is also bad. I am 18yrs old and i plan to have > an antigravity car or a spaceship within my lifetime > and I am not going to let others skeptisism impeed my > progress. > I believe anything is possible, and i believe that > gravity controll is verry possible. > There is a lot of information that people don't know, > or is known but not commonly excepted. > > Micah Lloyd. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 19:26:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA07767; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:25:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:25:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:25:17 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 In-Reply-To: <001201c0229c$73f73fc0$233dee3f@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"NlNpW1.0.Cv1.G02ov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16804 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Nick Reiter wrote: > 1. With Al2O3, dehydration at 200C before sonic treatment actually > decreased the effect somewhat. > 2. The addition of DI H2O to the Al2O3 to the extent that it was a > slurry still gave an effect only slightly less than the out-of-jar > media! COOL! If it had anything to do with surface electrostatics, that much water would certainly have killed it. BTW, about what wattage is your ultrasound cleaner? I found a small one at a garage sale, the kind with a single transducer at the bottom of the square S.S. bowl. It visibly stirs powder in a glass test tube, while a "cool mist" ultrasonic humidifier only makes the powder mass slide around slightly. One thing to note about acoustics: air is a terrible coupling medium for ultrasound. A fluidized powder is even worse, since it has air's elasticity but with a density akin to a fluid. The stirred powder probably reflects most of the incoming waves that make it through the container wall. Putting your ampule on a loudspeaker cone at 100HZ might whack the powder far harder than ultrasound can. But a water slurry would let much more ultrasound through the interface. If simple strain and vibration of the particles is important, then a particle suspension such as house paint would provide firm acoustic coupling through the container walls. (Hey, artists' oils are made from all kinds of strange mineral powders!) But if particle collisions are important, then maybe the effect would go away if the water kept the particles entirely separated. > tried Al2O3 beads of assorted sizes, up to about 3mm diameter. At this > large size scale, the effect vanishes! Thus, particle diameter plays a > role. Sounds like collisions are important. Either that, or the small particles are single crystals, and multicrystalline beads mess up the effect somehow. The effect with Bentonite is good news for those of us who don't want to track down exotic metal powders. > One ponders what a matrix of true nano-particles would do. In ink and some paint, the particles are small enough to be colloidial. Also, ultrasound DOES create collisions in suspended particles. That's where the infamous flocculation effect comes from, e.g. when the suspended minerals in your "cool mist" humidifier turn into visible grey mush in the transducer well. Some companies sell ultrasonic water treatment devices which supposedly cause suspended mineral particles to flocculate rather than plating out on surfaces and plugging your water pipes. If the tribograv effect applies to single molecules, then dissolved compounds might show some effect. Now THAT would be interesting! Does NaCl or Sucrose give any effect? If so, just a little water would dissolve them entirely without adding much mass. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 19:53:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA15087; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:40:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:40:59 -0700 Message-ID: <325380B7F2EED211B46700805F15B4654D1EF8@itntl-msg02.itntl.bhp.com.au> From: "Croese, Darren DM" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:35:14 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"JChsS.0.Hh3.wE2ov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16805 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Firstly, thanks for sharing your results with us as you go. I think it's great that you take the time out to type it in. Were I in your position I'm not sure I would do the same (all good intentions to the contrary). Secondly, have you thought about something along the powdered plastics line - like say powdered perspex? Darren. -----Original Message----- From: Nick Reiter [mailto:reit@ezworks.net] Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2000 10:45 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Hello all; My experiments have continued since my last posting. The weight loss / gain effect with different materials following ultrasonic agitation has remained consistent. I am currently about three days behind in the transcribing of my notes, though, so this i s going to be the quickest of updates. I am still working with the same basic arrangement; Crest ultrasonic cleaner tank, polycarbonate ampoule with sealing lid, and Stanton analytical balance. Last week, one of the fine scientists on this list sent me samples of two materials to try out - from a piezoelectric angle. They were both finely powdered - SiO2 and BaTiO3. I have tried both. The SiO2 powder was approximately on par with the 50 mi cron Al2O3. The BaTiO3 however, gave better results by a factor of about 8, when calculated on the basis of weight loss per mole of media! With a quantity of about 60 grams loaded into the ampoule, I saw a reproducible weight loss of between 20 and 23 m illigrams for a half hour acoustic treatment. However, I am moving further away from an electrostatic or electro-gravity explanation for this effect. Consider this: 1. With Al2O3, dehydration at 200C before sonic treatment actually decreased the effect somewhat. 2. The addition of DI H2O to the Al2O3 to the extent that it was a slurry still gave an effect only slightly less than the out-of-jar media! 3. However, a control run with only water in the ampoule gave no effect. 4. While Ti and Sn powders gave fairly low or null results, I am getting actually a respectable effect with powdered Zn, Te, and Se. This is a puzzle. 30 micron Al powder, however, gave some results, but much lower than Zn powder of the same mesh! I d o hearken back though to Brown who said that he had seen the effect with tantalum powder. 5. I tried Al2O3 beads of assorted sizes, up to about 3mm diameter. At this large size scale, the effect vanishes! Thus, particle diameter plays a role. One ponders what a matrix of true nano-particles would do. 6. Today, I found the best material yet for producing the effect - finely powdered bentonite clay. With 75 grams (approximately .18 mole for bentonite) I reproduced a weight loss of 35 milligrams, using the standard procedure. I am beginning to wonder if this effect, which I do believe with more certainty than ever before, is somehow related to nano-scale solid phase collisions producing some sort of weird vacuum mode interference. It doesn't seem to fit a piezo electric pa ttern, or an electrostatic pattern. It does not seem to be a thermal artifact. Yet some materials produce far better results than others. It does seem to depend on frequency and energy density of acoustic agitation. Maybe there is a crystal orientatio n factor. Or something related to modulus of elasticity. And it is very closely tied to particle size! Wonder what fullerenes would do in an ultrasonic fluidized bed? At this point, I am taking time out to start a formal document of this work. One of the prodigious tasks facing me is the placement of all materials into a master chart, and conversion of the weight loss numbers to a % change per mole figure. Let us raise a glass, though, to the late Dr. TT Brown, and his thoughtfulness in recording his observations of this paradoxical effect 27 years ago... PS - A kindly gratuitous note to Edward and Micah Guys, I really do appreciate your enthusiam. I had it when I was your age as well. But after years of trying to replicate the claims of Searl, and Newman, and Seike and others from the flamboyant end of alt-sci with no success, you get a little crusty. Talk is cheap. Talking about those who do nothing but talk is even cheaper. I hope you are the ones to make the breakthrough! What it will take though, is diligence, and willingness to admit that an effect you have seen MIGHT just be an artifact. Tha t's real science. Tell you what. Start experimenting now. Buy, build, beg, and borrow lab equipment. Refuse to believe either the skeptics OR the "true believers". TRY IT FOR YOURSELF! And share the results please. Or maybe try replicating something obscure and in explicable, like Hutchison's Effect. Bottle that genie and you'll be remembered for millenia! I look forward to seeing YOUR experimental results here. Sincerely; NR EOM NOTICE - This message contains information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. It may also be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate , copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify postmaster@bhp.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 19:54:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16179; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:47:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:47:18 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.28.94.179] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:46:34 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Sep 2000 02:46:34.0780 (UTC) FILETIME=[FD6BE5C0:01C022AC] Resent-Message-ID: <"gmyva1.0.iy3.rK2ov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16806 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com My dear Edward... It is a given fact that all great inventers have been bombarded with nay sayers... The Wrights took theirs to hiding... Tesla was told by his professors that his ideas were all wrong... The list is endless... The lesson I get is that you can not teach other to believe... You must show them... Don't despair, your in good company... Timothy... >that is very admirable nick. what about the bigger kids like us adults that >are living now and i want to make a point here nick and i do not want to >sound like i am putting you down but it is this attitude that everyone or >most everyone in the alternate sci commumity appear to have of "oh well it >wont happen in our life time". this is why i have been getting mad in here >lately because we got people in here and on other forums or groups who seem >to have this attitude maybe of oh not in our life time but 70 to 100's of _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 20:02:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA21585; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:02:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:02:00 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000919214249.00996dc0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:02:52 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft In-Reply-To: <008301c021f4$2eeb8e20$75736bc6@compaq> References: <4.2.0.58.19990220215248.00989d10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"LwZ7u1.0.8H5.dY2ov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16807 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Edward:

I offer my most sincere apology

I think maybe I have offended you and that was not my intention.  I was a bit short and I am sorry.

As for the Gravity theory...  The problem is that there is no working theory for gravity.  There are but only references to its behavior.  I am currently working a hypothesis that may explain away the magic.  However there are proofs to be done before I can present it.  If I am correct this will also open a couple of doors to energy that is now considered OU.

I am by nature skeptical and will likely be telling myself that I am wrong right up to the moment that I publish it as theory.  Hush hush for now though as I do not wish to be prematurely ladled a kook and have the real good stuff prejudged.


At 09:43 PM 9/18/00 -0700, you wrote:
THANK YOU CHUCK YOU ARE  A REAL BIG HELP TOO LIKE ANNA AND JACK.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Ford" <cjford1@yahoo.com>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft


> Um...   One that actually works.....  As for now I suspect that 20G
> acceleration would moderately damaging to the driver / pilot and the
vichale.
>
>
>
> At 01:53 PM 9/18/00 -0700, you wrote:
> >what is the most practical antigravity motor, generator or coils to use
on
> >lets say a car or van or truck and make it fly 100-300 mph cruise speed
> >and not be subject to inertia  when it maybe pulls up 20g's or more and
> >requires very little energy to fly?
>
> Charlie Ford
> cjford1@yahoo.com
> cjford1@swbell.net
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>

Charlie Ford
cjford1@yahoo.com
cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 20:11:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24465; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:10:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:10:24 -0700 From: Alan Schneider To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:09:51 +1100 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA24426 Resent-Message-ID: <"GocR11.0.6-5.Wg2ov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16808 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:46:34 PDT, "Timothy Flytch" wrote: >My dear Edward... It is a given fact that all great inventers have been >bombarded with nay sayers... The Wrights took theirs to hiding... Tesla was >told by his professors that his ideas were all wrong... The list is >endless... >The lesson I get is that you can not teach other to believe... >You must show them... >Don't despair, your in good company... Or, as Howard Aiken once said... "Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are that good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 21:31:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA14221; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:30:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:30:39 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39C7EAED.9DCB320F@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:38:37 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 ( suggestions on further materials ). References: <001201c0229c$73f73fc0$233dee3f@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9Liet1.0.6U3.kr3ov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16809 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Powdered Iodine crystals. Graphite powder. Sulphur Powder. Ground up foam ( go to a hobby store and look for 'turf'. Comes in several grades. Try the finest and the coarsest ). Static Grass ( diced up nylon fibres, looks like grass when glued to terrain, find in a model/hobby store ) 'ballast' ( ground up REAL fine rock ). I can send samples of turf, static grass, and ballast. Foam is intresting because of all it's internal cavities. Static grass is intresting because of it's structure. Ground up quartz ( known for it's piezo effect ). Aerogels ( lots of TINY internal cavities ). Ground up calicite. Boron/Borax ( related to aluminum ) Vanadium/Niobium ( metals or oxides, related to Tantalum ). Powdered table salt. Powdered sugar. Baking Soda ( NaCO3 ). etc... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 22:59:11 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA03044; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:58:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:58:17 -0700 Message-ID: <002701c022c6$bb4c9080$79736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:50:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"wciuV3.0.Tl.v75ov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16810 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com thanks alan and god bless you for what you just said ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Schneider" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:46:34 PDT, "Timothy Flytch" wrote: > > >My dear Edward... It is a given fact that all great inventers have been > >bombarded with nay sayers... The Wrights took theirs to hiding... Tesla was > >told by his professors that his ideas were all wrong... The list is > >endless... > >The lesson I get is that you can not teach other to believe... > >You must show them... > >Don't despair, your in good company... > > Or, as Howard Aiken once said... > "Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If > your ideas are that good, you'll have to ram them > down people's throats." > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 23:02:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA04337; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:02:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:02:08 -0700 Message-ID: <003801c022c7$409ad8a0$79736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990220215248.00989d10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20000919214249.00996dc0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:54:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0228C.936AF500" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"kZpSh2.0.g31.SB5ov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16811 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0228C.936AF500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable okay thanks chuck. your good people. god bless the skeptic because i am = a skeptic too.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Charles Ford=20 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Edward: I offer my most sincere apology I think maybe I have offended you and that was not my intention. I = was a bit short and I am sorry. As for the Gravity theory... The problem is that there is no working = theory for gravity. There are but only references to its behavior. I = am currently working a hypothesis that may explain away the magic. = However there are proofs to be done before I can present it. If I am = correct this will also open a couple of doors to energy that is now = considered OU. I am by nature skeptical and will likely be telling myself that I am = wrong right up to the moment that I publish it as theory. Hush hush for = now though as I do not wish to be prematurely ladled a kook and have the = real good stuff prejudged.=20 At 09:43 PM 9/18/00 -0700, you wrote: THANK YOU CHUCK YOU ARE A REAL BIG HELP TOO LIKE ANNA AND JACK. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Ford" To: Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 8:56 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > Um... One that actually works..... As for now I suspect that = 20G > acceleration would moderately damaging to the driver / pilot and = the vichale. > > > > At 01:53 PM 9/18/00 -0700, you wrote: > >what is the most practical antigravity motor, generator or coils = to use on > >lets say a car or van or truck and make it fly 100-300 mph cruise = speed > >and not be subject to inertia when it maybe pulls up 20g's or = more and > >requires very little energy to fly? > > Charlie Ford > cjford1@yahoo.com > cjford1@swbell.net > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com >=20 Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ = Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. = http://im.yahoo.com=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0228C.936AF500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
okay thanks chuck. your good people. god bless the = skeptic=20 because i am a skeptic too.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Charles = Ford=20
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, = 2000 8:02=20 PM
Subject: Re: [FG]: practical = antigravity=20 craft

Edward:

I offer my most sincere apology

I = think=20 maybe I have offended you and that was not my intention.  I was a = bit=20 short and I am sorry.

As for the Gravity theory...  The = problem is=20 that there is no working theory for gravity.  There are but only=20 references to its behavior.  I am currently working a hypothesis = that may=20 explain away the magic.  However there are proofs to be done = before I can=20 present it.  If I am correct this will also open a couple of = doors to=20 energy that is now considered OU.

I am by nature skeptical and = will=20 likely be telling myself that I am wrong right up to the moment that I = publish=20 it as theory.  Hush hush for now though as I do not wish to be=20 prematurely ladled a kook and have the real good stuff prejudged.=20


At 09:43 PM 9/18/00 -0700, you wrote:
THANK YOU CHUCK YOU ARE  A REAL = BIG HELP=20 TOO LIKE ANNA AND JACK.
----- Original Message -----
From: = "Charles=20 Ford" <cjford1@yahoo.com>
To: = <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent:=20 Saturday, February 20, 1999 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [FG]: practical=20 antigravity craft


> Um...   One that = actually=20 works.....  As for now I suspect that 20G
> acceleration = would=20 moderately damaging to the driver / pilot and=20 the
vichale.
>
>
>
> At 01:53 PM 9/18/00 = -0700,=20 you wrote:
> >what is the most practical antigravity motor, = generator or coils to use
on
> >lets say a car or van or = truck=20 and make it fly 100-300 mph cruise speed
> >and not be = subject to=20 inertia  when it maybe pulls up 20g's or more and
> = >requires=20 very little energy to fly?
>
> Charlie Ford
>=20 cjford1@yahoo.com
> cjford1@swbell.net
>
>=20 _________________________________________________________
> Do = You=20 Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> =

Charlie = Ford
cjford1@yahoo.com
cjford1@swbell.net=20 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk = to your=20 friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0228C.936AF500-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 19 23:05:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA19927; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003f01c022c7$7151dac0$79736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <20000919233903.430.qmail@web3802.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:55:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"Cu2AA2.0.Bt4.nC5ov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16812 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com micah god bless you and charge on with this like i am........... ----- Original Message ----- From: "micah lloyd" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > --- edward webber wrote: > > that is very admirable nick. what about the bigger > > kids like us adults that > > are living now and i want to make a point here nick > > and i do not want to > > sound like i am putting you down but it is this > > attitude that everyone or > > most everyone in the alternate sci commumity appear > > to have of "oh well it > > wont happen in our life time". this is why i have > > been getting mad in here > > lately because we got people in here and on other > > forums or groups who seem > > to have this attitude maybe of oh not in our life > > time but 70 to 100's of > > years from now. well yah at this rate it probably > > will be that long with > > this approach they have to freenrgy, anti-gravity > > that makes it look to me > > as it just is a hobby to them. it is not a hobby to > > me. i am very serious > > about and i hope that i am not the onlyperson who > > wants it within my > > lifetime maybe before i turn 40-50. and i think that > > all of us could have > > this aircar propulsion with in 10 years if we > > stopped this tendancy of going > > off on these tangents of "oh no that idea wont work > > but mine will" and so > > they are like the person that judges a book from its > > cover because think > > they have been there and done that and they are not > > much different the very > > skeptical and scoffing narrow minded physicist who > > is set in his ways and > > devoted or enslaved by his own ignorance and i am > > not like that. i am opened > > minded and not like alot of people i have met online > > that seem to be so > > pessimistic and negative. if we changed our attitude > > maybe important and > > huge breakthroughs might occur to advance our > > knowledge greatly. people > > like michio kaku and other very classicaly trained > > skeptics of alt science > > are people i really do not trust because if i had > > taken kaku up in some ag > > vehicle, aircar, gravity car that had been working > > just right he would still > > maybe doubt it or atleast he and so many other > > classically or conventionally > > trained and mainstream scientists will have to go > > back and re write > > evertying and it will take years to do that and > > untill then the powers that > > be will more than likely ground the ag vehicle > > because of that or find some > > excuse to ground it. i think one of the reasons > > would be economic because > > the airline industry would be the first industry > > being hit by the ecomonic > > impact of the gravity or aircar. just think of > > hundreds of pilots, mechanics > > and other employees of airlines who would be out of > > work because more and > > more people, after the aircar is then introduced, > > will learn that it is so > > much cheaper and easier jumping into their ag suv, > > or minivan , auto and > > going to their destination than hassling with the > > airliners. i think that > > what i am trying to say her is that it is like > > walking on hot coal and or > > laying down on a bed of nails and not getting > > injured because we attune our > > minds or trick our minds into not being hurt. i see > > it the same with this > > quest for gravity control or free nrg. we need to be > > more positive about it > > and stop thinking to ourselves that "it will not be > > for hundreds of years > > untill we discover it and develop or advance it" > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Nick Reiter" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 2:22 AM > > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "edward webber" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > > > > > > > no i have none and i wish i had and yes i > > believe there are many that > > have > > > > developed in in secret but are not willing to > > share yet maybe because > > they > > > > cannot get a patent and want one so they can be > > a tycoon and wealthy and > > > or > > > > they are afraid of if they do come out with it > > they are gonna be > > > discredited > > > > and or jailed or shot dead. the list goes on. i > > think they should just > > > > release what they have annonymousely but that is > > a tall order and too > > much > > > > to ask maybe. what do you think? > > > > > > ************ I agree. And it is how I have > > conducted my own experiments. > > > I work at my day job in as honorable a capacity as > > I can. I earn my daily > > > bread that way, a decent salary, and it keeps the > > kids fed and the spouse > > > happy. I have no aspirations to get rich from > > antigravity. I may not be > > > the one to make the gravity breakthrough, but the > > little experiments along > > > the way that give some occasional hopeful results, > > I share with my fellow > > > scientists. I want my kids and grand kids to be > > able to get off this rock > > > in a quick and easy way if they have to. Thats > > payment enough. > > > > > > NR > > > > > > Hello I think that to much skeptisism is bad and too > little is also bad. I am 18yrs old and i plan to have > an antigravity car or a spaceship within my lifetime > and I am not going to let others skeptisism impeed my > progress. > I believe anything is possible, and i believe that > gravity controll is verry possible. > There is a lot of information that people don't know, > or is known but not commonly excepted. > > Micah Lloyd. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 06:10:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA13443; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 06:10:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 06:10:05 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [162.39.245.203] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:09:32 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Sep 2000 13:09:32.0537 (UTC) FILETIME=[044CFE90:01C02304] Resent-Message-ID: <"3Poyk.0.yH3.iSBov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16813 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Edward and all I've been working at this antigravity thing since my first airplane ride when I was 7. I'm now 4 decades past that and have no intention of giving up til I die. The most and best information I have gotten has come to me over the last 10 years and the best leads to information began by following links on Bill's pages. The most productive communications from fellow experimenters has come from this list over the few short months I've been here. There is a lot of garbage out there on the net but it is still the best source for good information. Start with T.T. Brown and Jean Louis Nardin. P.S. I've taken Nicks advice and gone back to study Brown's early work and trying to apply some of that to the design of a new Grav-Cap. One of the ideas I would like to test is the use of Pewter as a plate material, does anyone have any experience using pewter in a cap of any kind? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 07:13:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA29048; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 07:13:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 07:13:12 -0700 From: "David Rosignoli" Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Reply-to: drdaveor@enter.net To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-CC-Sender: drdaveor@enter.net Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:13:01 +400 X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.1t, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <39c8c5ed.2747.0@enter.net> X-User-Info: 192.91.146.34 Resent-Message-ID: <"dtgvJ1.0.c57.tNCov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16814 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Gravity Warp Capacitor Construction Tips I have been debating what the best method is on making metal coated objects, especially for the GWC, but for HV electrodes in general. One method that I have not implemented but have found attractive is sputtering. John Strong's classic book, "Experimental Procedures in Physics", describes this in much detail. Based on the book, coating an object with tin might take 2 hours. A setup for sputtering looks relatively simple to do. A bell jar at a slight vaccum with the application of a high voltage (<20kV) at <100's mA should do it. I'm not sure if I will do it or not. My question for those out there is "has anyone ever done homemade sputtering?" If so, how did you do it and what were your results? What about X-rays? Is granite shielding necessary? It sounds to me that relatively soft X-rays would be generated, but that depends on the voltage and the vacuum used. Any advice is always appreciated. David Rosignoli From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 09:36:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA18006; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:30:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:30:53 -0700 Message-ID: <003a01c0231f$aaf95840$0364c8c8@mindspring> From: "John Lighton" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:27:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"qfBCn3.0.8P4.xOEov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16815 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Putting your ampule on a loudspeaker cone at 100HZ might whack the powder far harder than ultrasound can Here's an idea: If a mass attached to a vibrating surface changes, then the amount of force required to sustain a vibration of a given amplitude will also change. Thus, if you can measure the oscillation amplitude precisely enough (for example, with a LVDT or a non-contact technique such as a small magnet and linear Hall effect transducer, or capacitive displacement transducer), you should be able to pick up the time-course of the mass-reduction effect. Measuring the input force to the cone is of course required as well, but is far simpler from the measurement point of view (V*I). Using this technique may allow you to determine the frequency dependence of the "tribomass" effect. BTW, I'm not sold on the term "tribogravity" because it would appear that the *mass* of the material changes; as far as I understand the mechanism of the old mechanical balances, they use counterweights and thus actually measure *mass* rather than *weight* - or do I misunderstand? This reminds me somewhat of the experiments a University of California at Fullerton scientist did on apparent mass reduction in capacitors during mechanical oscillation. Two rather distant parts of the same jigsaw puzzle. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 13:39:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22008; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:34:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:34:13 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:31:50 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"UR21T1.0.eN5.5zHov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16816 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Tests results great! Phase 2, LRG motor Hello all, I measured mA current on the two attraction coils at low rpm and got 150mA reading. I measured mA current on the two repulsion coils at low rpm and got 150mA reading also. I then measured mA reading thru all four coils wired as shown on web site and the mA scale would not even read! The voltage of the repulsion magnets canceled the voltage of the attraction magnets out. Commutator is being built by Bob Squires and should be shipped today or tomorrow. Tests are going better than I could ever have imagined. I will start tests for overunity at that point. The name for the device now is The LaFonte Research Group "Magnetic Equilibrium Motor". The dictionary defines equilibrium as " a condition of balance between opposed forces, influences, or actions ". Thanks, Butch http://members.a ol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 13:51:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26291; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <011a01c02341$89bd39e0$6f736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <003a01c0231f$aaf95840$0364c8c8@mindspring> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:29:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"xV1Tf.0.cQ6.X0Iov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16817 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com what is tribo-gravity? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lighton" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 > > Putting your ampule on a loudspeaker cone at 100HZ might > whack the powder far harder than ultrasound can > > > Here's an idea: If a mass attached to a vibrating surface changes, then the > amount of force required to sustain a vibration of a given amplitude will > also change. Thus, if you can measure the oscillation amplitude precisely > enough (for example, with a LVDT or a non-contact technique such as a small > magnet and linear Hall effect transducer, or capacitive displacement > transducer), you should be able to pick up the time-course of the > mass-reduction effect. Measuring the input force to the cone is of course > required as well, but is far simpler from the measurement point of view > (V*I). Using this technique may allow you to determine the frequency > dependence of the "tribomass" effect. > > BTW, I'm not sold on the term "tribogravity" because it would appear that > the *mass* of the material changes; as far as I understand the mechanism of > the old mechanical balances, they use counterweights and thus actually > measure *mass* rather than *weight* - or do I misunderstand? > > This reminds me somewhat of the experiments a University of California at > Fullerton scientist did on apparent mass reduction in capacitors during > mechanical oscillation. Two rather distant parts of the same jigsaw puzzle. > > John > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 14:02:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA01485; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:01:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:01:35 -0700 Message-ID: <001101c02344$e31dc060$6f736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:53:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0230A.35E63BA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"WQT0U3.0.mM.lMIov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16818 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: john bro and his video footage of possible keys to ag propulsion This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0230A.35E63BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hello any of you on this news group ever heard of jon bro and his = technique or method using solar obliteration to view dozens to hundreds = of unusual objects in the sky by using his video camera and the method = used for viewing a solar eclipse? i remember seeing a segment on him on = sightings tv show and i think that is where i had first learned of him = and on the show they had some specialist analyse jon bro's videos of = these strange objects darting around and at first all of them or most of = them had appeared to be just cotton wood seeds and other normal objects = being carried around by air currents and when the video technician or = specialist slowed down and then stopped and zoomed in or enlarged jon = bro's video footage it would reveal disk like objects passing very fast = in front of the video camera and behind the coulds. now i had found a = website in the last year that shows a number of photos from his video = footage of these unusual craft and most of them are not saucer shaped in = what that look like. they are shaped more like long cylinders or = aerodymic and delta wingeded shape and they very interesting and i am = not trying to talk about ufos or aliens here just that these photos and = the video footage might tell us something about propulsion and they seem = to have a very unusual looking field effect almost a wing or spiraling = or coiling type of field effect around most of them. if you would like = to see what i am talking about you can view them on www.blackvault.com = and click on "the technique" of jon bro.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0230A.35E63BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hello any of you on this news group ever heard of = jon bro and=20 his technique or method using solar obliteration to view dozens to = hundreds of=20 unusual objects in the sky by using his video camera and the method used = for=20 viewing a solar eclipse? i remember seeing a segment on him on sightings = tv show=20 and i think that is where i had first learned of him and on the show = they had=20 some specialist analyse jon bro's videos of these strange objects = darting around=20 and at first all of them or most of them had appeared to be just cotton = wood=20 seeds and other normal objects being carried around by air currents and = when the=20 video technician or specialist slowed down and then stopped and zoomed = in or=20 enlarged jon bro's video footage it would reveal disk like objects = passing very=20 fast in front of the video camera and behind the coulds. now i had found = a=20 website in the last year that shows a number of photos from his video = footage of=20 these unusual craft and most of them are not saucer shaped in what = that=20 look like.  they are shaped more like long cylinders or = aerodymic=20 and delta wingeded shape and they very interesting and i am not trying = to talk=20 about ufos or aliens here just that these photos and the video footage = might=20 tell us something about propulsion and they seem to have  a very = unusual=20 looking field effect almost a wing or spiraling or coiling type of field = effect=20 around most of them.  if you would like to see what i am talking = about you=20 can view them on www.blackvault.com and=20 click on "the technique" of jon bro. =
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0230A.35E63BA0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 14:34:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA06671; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <031601c0234a$f4e90d80$842d22d0@creekelectric.com> From: "Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr" To: References: <001101c02344$e31dc060$6f736bc6@compaq> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:37:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0313_01C02321.0B3A0AA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"i2I2D2.0.sd1.bpIov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16819 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: john bro and his video footage of possible keys to ag propulsion This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0313_01C02321.0B3A0AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you are into some of those, check out www.roswellrods.com. The came = across things that look pretty much the same. I've got no personal = opinions of what this stuff is, and all that good stuff. I've just = looked at it, and that's all. Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr Author, Boulder Panic!, Boulder Panic! 2 President, MidnightRyder.Com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: edward webber=20 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 3:53 PM Subject: [FG]: john bro and his video footage of possible keys to ag = propulsion hello any of you on this news group ever heard of jon bro and his = technique or method using solar obliteration to view dozens to hundreds = of unusual objects in the sky by using his video camera and the method = used for viewing a solar eclipse? i remember seeing a segment on him on = sightings tv show and i think that is where i had first learned of him = and on the show they had some specialist analyse jon bro's videos of = these strange objects darting around and at first all of them or most of = them had appeared to be just cotton wood seeds and other normal objects = being carried around by air currents and when the video technician or = specialist slowed down and then stopped and zoomed in or enlarged jon = bro's video footage it would reveal disk like objects passing very fast = in front of the video camera and behind the coulds. now i had found a = website in the last year that shows a number of photos from his video = footage of these unusual craft and most of them are not saucer shaped in = what that look like. they are shaped more like long cylinders or = aerodymic and delta wingeded shape and they very interesting and i am = not trying to talk about ufos or aliens here just that these photos and = the video footage might tell us something about propulsion and they seem = to have a very unusual looking field effect almost a wing or spiraling = or coiling type of field effect around most of them. if you would like = to see what i am talking about you can view them on www.blackvault.com = and click on "the technique" of jon bro.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0313_01C02321.0B3A0AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you are into some of those, check = out www.roswellrods.com.  The = came across=20 things that look pretty much the same.  I've got no personal = opinions of=20 what this stuff is, and all that good stuff. I've just looked at it, and = that's=20 all.
 
Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr
Author, = Boulder Panic!,=20 Boulder Panic! 2
President, MidnightRyder.Com
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 edward = webber=20
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, = 2000 3:53=20 PM
Subject: [FG]: john bro and his = video=20 footage of possible keys to ag propulsion

hello any of you on this news group ever heard of = jon bro=20 and his technique or method using solar obliteration to view dozens to = hundreds of unusual objects in the sky by using his video camera and = the=20 method used for viewing a solar eclipse? i remember seeing a segment = on him on=20 sightings tv show and i think that is where i had first learned of him = and on=20 the show they had some specialist analyse jon bro's videos of these = strange=20 objects darting around and at first all of them or most of them had = appeared=20 to be just cotton wood seeds and other normal objects being carried = around by=20 air currents and when the video technician or specialist slowed down = and then=20 stopped and zoomed in or enlarged jon bro's video footage it would = reveal disk=20 like objects passing very fast in front of the video camera and behind = the=20 coulds. now i had found a website in the last year that shows a number = of=20 photos from his video footage of these unusual craft and most of them = are=20 not saucer shaped in what that look like.  they are = shaped more=20 like long cylinders or aerodymic and delta wingeded shape and = they very=20 interesting and i am not trying to talk about ufos or aliens here just = that=20 these photos and the video footage might tell us something about = propulsion=20 and they seem to have  a very unusual looking field effect almost = a wing=20 or spiraling or coiling type of field effect around most of = them.  if you=20 would like to see what i am talking about you can view them on www.blackvault.com and click on = "the=20 technique" of jon bro. =
------=_NextPart_000_0313_01C02321.0B3A0AA0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 14:48:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08730; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:42:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:41:55 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 In-Reply-To: <001201c0229c$73f73fc0$233dee3f@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"W8P1q1.0.A82.kyIov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16820 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Nick Reiter wrote: > Hello all; > > My experiments have continued since my last posting. The weight loss / > gain effect with different materials following ultrasonic agitation has > remained consistent. I am currently about three days behind in the > transcribing of my notes, though, so this is going to be the quickest of > updates. Crude replication attempt failed! My old triple-beam balance can just barely detect 50-mG if I don't breathe on it. I used an ultrasonic cleaner and agitated table salt in a small (1") flat-bottomed glass bottle. The bottle GAINED somewhere around 50mG afterwards. Probably adsorbed surface water? Maybe glass containers are a bad idea, and plastic should be used. A friend has a broken milligram balance. If I can repair it I'm in business. BTW, I wasted about an hour here with Jim Burrows playing with a 2-liter bottle of soda water placed in the ultrasonic cleaner well (with an inch of water in the well for coupling.) At first it creates massive effervescence. But once most of the CO2 has been driven off, weird things are seen while turning the ultrasound on and off. Turn the cleaner on suddenly, and regions of bubbles appear in the middle, far from any walls. And once bubbles are rising, turn the cleaner off to allow tiny bubbles to rise... then turn the cleaner on suddenly, and the tiny bubbles instantly coalesce into much larger bubbles which rise much faster in long vertical streams. There is radiation pressure forcing small bubbles together? Some liquid soap added to the soda water kept the tiny bubbles from uniting, and when the ultrasound was turned off suddenly, larger "bubbles" fell apart into small clouds of much smaller bubbles. Horizontal "plates" of bubbles are vaguely seen. Occasionally I observed a "forest fire" effect, where regions of bubbling near the top would slowly spread downwards through the liquid. It's as if, a region of bubbling, once started, can induce more bubbling in neighboring liquid. Bubble-clouds reflect sound, so a bubble-cloud might produce extra sound pressure immediately below itself. With soap added to a fresh bottle of soda water, the ultrasonic cleaner can produce a jet of white foam. Very... Freudian! ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 16:48:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA11573; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:47:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:47:30 -0700 Message-ID: <003101c0235c$143ed780$6f736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:39:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"nAFUL2.0.kq2.HoKov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16821 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com william i am new to this list so where can i learn more about this tribo-gravity and get an introduction to it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Beaty" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 > On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Nick Reiter wrote: > > > Hello all; > > > > My experiments have continued since my last posting. The weight loss / > > gain effect with different materials following ultrasonic agitation has > > remained consistent. I am currently about three days behind in the > > transcribing of my notes, though, so this is going to be the quickest of > > updates. > > > Crude replication attempt failed! > > My old triple-beam balance can just barely detect 50-mG if I don't breathe > on it. I used an ultrasonic cleaner and agitated table salt in a small > (1") flat-bottomed glass bottle. The bottle GAINED somewhere around 50mG > afterwards. Probably adsorbed surface water? Maybe glass containers are a > bad idea, and plastic should be used. > > A friend has a broken milligram balance. If I can repair it I'm in > business. > > BTW, I wasted about an hour here with Jim Burrows playing with a 2-liter > bottle of soda water placed in the ultrasonic cleaner well (with an inch > of water in the well for coupling.) At first it creates massive > effervescence. But once most of the CO2 has been driven off, weird things > are seen while turning the ultrasound on and off. Turn the cleaner on > suddenly, and regions of bubbles appear in the middle, far from any walls. > And once bubbles are rising, turn the cleaner off to allow tiny bubbles to > rise... then turn the cleaner on suddenly, and the tiny bubbles instantly > coalesce into much larger bubbles which rise much faster in long vertical > streams. There is radiation pressure forcing small bubbles together? > Some liquid soap added to the soda water kept the tiny bubbles from > uniting, and when the ultrasound was turned off suddenly, larger "bubbles" > fell apart into small clouds of much smaller bubbles. Horizontal "plates" > of bubbles are vaguely seen. Occasionally I observed a "forest fire" > effect, where regions of bubbling near the top would slowly spread > downwards through the liquid. It's as if, a region of bubbling, once > started, can induce more bubbling in neighboring liquid. Bubble-clouds > reflect sound, so a bubble-cloud might produce extra sound pressure > immediately below itself. With soap added to a fresh bottle of soda > water, the ultrasonic cleaner can produce a jet of white foam. Very... > Freudian! > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 17:44:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA15666; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002801c02361$8a31e720$7a3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:18:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"zKClp1.0.fq3.eXLov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16822 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com OK, guys; so many questions to answer, so little time to write...see the inserted asterisked notes. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Beaty" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 > > BTW, about what wattage is your ultrasound cleaner? I found a small one > at a garage sale, the kind with a single transducer at the bottom of the > square S.S. bowl. It visibly stirs powder in a glass test tube, while a > "cool mist" ultrasonic humidifier only makes the powder mass slide around > slightly. ******The one I have been using is a Crest Ultrasonics SS tank unit, however I do not have the manual for it. The nameplate on the power supply says it draws 4.2 amps at 120VAC. So I suspect that the final output at the transducers might be a couple hundred watts tops. However, as to the watt density transmitted to the sample, who knows. Probably far less. > One thing to note about acoustics: air is a terrible coupling medium for > ultrasound. A fluidized powder is even worse, since it has air's > elasticity but with a density akin to a fluid. The stirred powder > probably reflects most of the incoming waves that make it through the > container wall. Putting your ampule on a loudspeaker cone at 100HZ might > whack the powder far harder than ultrasound can. But a water slurry would > let much more ultrasound through the interface. *******True, yet it would slow the velocity of the collisions down too. My hunch is that there would be an optimum % water by volume. If simple strain and > vibration of the particles is important, then a particle suspension such > as house paint would provide firm acoustic coupling through the container > walls. (Hey, artists' oils are made from all kinds of strange mineral > powders!) But if particle collisions are important, then maybe the effect > would go away if the water kept the particles entirely separated. ******** See above. I envision some sort of a gas flow driven particle collision chamber. > > > Sounds like collisions are important. Either that, or the small particles > are single crystals, and multicrystalline beads mess up the effect > somehow. The effect with Bentonite is good news for those of us who don't > want to track down exotic metal powders. ******* I would suspect that crushed chalk or pure talcum powder might be good candidates. What is the finest inorganic powder one can find on the store shelf? Portland cement? Potter's clay? > > If the tribograv effect applies to single molecules, then dissolved > compounds might show some effect. Now THAT would be interesting! Does > NaCl or Sucrose give any effect? ********** I have not tried sugar. However, I did try 99.9% NaCl in granulated form. Fairly poor, if not virtually null results. I was surprised, but that was when I was more convinced of a piezo-electric effect. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 17:52:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA17079; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000001c02365$9ec5b500$b93dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <325380B7F2EED211B46700805F15B4654D1EF8@itntl-msg02.itntl.bhp.com.au> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:43:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"CUrhC3.0.lA4.ceLov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16823 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Darren; See below; ----- Original Message ----- From: "Croese, Darren DM" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:35 PM Subject: RE: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 > Firstly, thanks for sharing your results with us as you go. I think it's great that you take the time out to type it in. Were I in your position I'm not sure I would do the same (all good intentions to the contrary). > > Secondly, have you thought about something along the powdered plastics line - like say powdered perspex? ******* Haven't tried it yet. I was thinking of powdered teflon, or something with an enormous mol weight. But thanks for the suggestion. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 17:55:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA18633; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001401c02366$cf1b8ee0$b93dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <001201c0229c$73f73fc0$233dee3f@default> <39C7EAED.9DCB320F@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 ( suggestions on further materials ). Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:56:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"uf6Ik3.0.fY4.gmLov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16824 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com See below: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 ( suggestions on further materials ). > > Powdered Iodine crystals. ***** Not yet > > Graphite powder. ****** Not yet, but plan to soon. > > Sulphur Powder. ****** Tried it. It does give results, though less than Al2O3 by comparison. > > Ground up foam ( go to a hobby store and look for 'turf'. Comes in > several grades. Try the finest and the coarsest ). > > Static Grass ( diced up nylon fibres, looks like grass when glued to > terrain, find in a model/hobby store ) > > 'ballast' ( ground up REAL fine rock ). > > I can send samples of turf, static grass, and ballast. Foam is > intresting because of all it's internal cavities. Static grass is > intresting because of it's structure. ******* Haven't tried any of these. If you have small samples; I would be happy to try them. Give me a little time, though; I have to get my notes up to this point in order. But yes, thanks. > > Ground up quartz ( known for it's piezo effect ). ******** Yes, thanks to Tim Vaughan. (Along with BaTiO3) The SiO2 powder works about on par with Al2O3. > > Aerogels ( lots of TINY internal cavities ). > > Ground up calicite. ******* This one sounds enticing, but no not yet. > > Boron/Borax ( related to aluminum ) > > Vanadium/Niobium ( metals or oxides, related to Tantalum ). ******* Not yet. Might be hard for even me to get these. Got any yourself? > > Powdered table salt. ******* I don't know about powdered salt, but granulated NaCl gave very poor results. > > Powdered sugar. > > Baking Soda ( NaCO3 ). ******** nope and nope. Not yet. Thanks very much! NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 18:09:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA00679; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:04:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:03:59 -0700 Message-ID: <39C95D1C.44AB1047@harti.com> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:58:04 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"slOoW3.0.QA._vLov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16825 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Doug=B4s?= pulsemotor update and comments -------- Original Message -------- Betreff: Re:Ideas ! Datum: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 01:35:37 +0200 Von: Stefan Hartmann Rückantwort: harti@harti.com Firma: Hartmann Multimedia Service An: Doug Konzen Referenzen: <000601c0233f$badaff00$c2f2103f@old-konzen> Doug Konzen schrieb: > > hi Stefan > > So the newest news is that I am converting standard car alternators (fiat or > volvo) into pulse-motors... I take them apart, heat-up and pound-out the > rotor assemblies, take out the diodes and everything but for the brushes, > bearings, shaft, pulley, fan and housings. I then drill through the shaft > and mount my own rotor there (two welding-rod iron/steel 3/4 inch thick > cores, and then do the windings as normal. this way I will have a nice > strong shaft with a built -in brush assembly. pulley, fan, etc.... Havent > finished one yet, but have 7 alternators ready to go, one is half-built. I > also made 5 bifilor-wound Emagnets chassis to test with my regular set-up > using the plastic plates... so what I have been doing a lot of lately is > manufacturing these things small-time. > > On the testing-mode, i have found that the meters will say .54 amps input in > a normal test, with the "regular" circuit (current through stators, through > front bearing, through rotors,throuogh back bearing, then chopped by mosfet, > then to ground)...... > when I do the "hot" wire circuit, the meter will say .76 amps or so - the > hot wire circuit being the same circuit as above, but a wire connected from > the battery positive to the front bearing "short-circuiting the stators" as > you describe it...so it SEEMS that this hotwire circuit draws more current > (while it also has much more power and speed) > > BUT when I look at a scope of these two circuits compared, the hotwire > circuit has a much smaller (in amps) pulse - maybe half the size as the > regular circuit, and most important, the hotwire circuit creates a big > secondary positive pulse!! Would love to see new pictures about this on your site ! > > This doesnt show up on the meter at all - and the meter shows more current > draw, which is not the case at all... scopes are the only way to test!! > > So this new circuit seems to be the best so far, even though I still dont > get completely what is going on - I believe the stators now work as a > "choke" and they will also repel the rotor even better than before too from > the residual current through them............my motor works better with > magnetically weaker stators basically...maybe because the rotor is > spinning............. Try to get the motor running on charged capacitors only ! You need an efficient AC to DC converter to charge up the supply capacitors ! > > Also have improved my "permanent magnet flux bridges" that catch the > oscillation of the rotor and increase power very greatly - after the current > is cut to the rotors.... I positioned these just right, and now only have > one magnet instead of two just downwind of the stators....this I beleive is > responsible for the positve pulse with the hotwire circuit too. I'm also > making another improvement here, with three magnets wrapped around the rotor > when it cruises by (one normal position, two angled at the sides)....havent > finished this yet... > > One more thing, is that I am experimenting with having permanent magnets > touching/attached to the backsides of my cores - creating a permanent-magnet > core in the motors that should create more spring-loaded magnetism, and a > "deeper cycle" plus more AC production and also more power to the > spin...This works in other types of pulsee-motors with spinning magnets, > (like Bedini/Adams) but not so sure about colliding-coil motors like mine, > so I am experimenting. might be that the AC will de-gauss the magnet over > time but wont know until I try it out for awhile.... Would love to see pics. > > Also am going to make a alternating-feed motor, with two mosfets firing in > alternating pulses through the motor, one in one way, the other in the > opposite direction to create a AC inverter affect. The idea here is to use > this also as a "tank" circuit - where I can fill the opposing firing with > the combined rectified-recoil energy, the pickup-winding energy, and the > splatter energy as the motor runs. There should be no phase-lock or > whatever because of the opposing firings - this way instaed of two > cap/battery banks being filled and switched over time or voltage to keep it > running continuous, I can do it all within the motor-circuit with the two > mosfets - that is the plan anyways! Try to use spark gaps ! Not MOSFETs ! This will give you additional back current pulses into the batteries ! See: http://www.overunity.com/newman2 It seems, that a mechanical commutator with the right commutator-(spark-gap) configuration produces huge back current pulses from the vacuum energy ! It helps to recharge the battery (caps) ! > > Also am learning a lot about charging batteries with a cap-pulse -----have > you seen what Robert Calloways is doing using Bedini ideas??? It has been > on Keelyenet...I can send you a link if not.... > It is only working, because he is using a mechanical relay, which is small sparking at the contact ! Here again a right conditioned spark gap ! Go with a mechanical switch too and forget the MOSFETs ! Also Try to use conical (pyramid) wound coils on your pickup coils or your repell coils ! Thsi will give a special vortex effect and enhance the repelling or the power generation ! You also can try to use special mineral crystals near you pickup coils ! These will "rectify" the ZPE energy and will enhance the power output ! Maybe also wind coils around them and put them additionally to the other pickupo coils ! This sounds strange, but it is a way to harness the Neutrinos, that are flowing from the Sun to the Earth ! Every cm^2 there are 66 Billion Neutrinos, but you can only harness them, if you deaccelerate them with dielectric material like water or mineral crystals and use open unipolar fields around them with coils or electric fields ! > So I will get some photos up of my alternator-pulse motors and also the > scope shots of the difference the hot-wire circtuit makes soon... > Okay, would love to see them ! > Ciao > Konehead Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your webpages for every surfers click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 18:25:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA06078; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:24:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:24:44 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01c02369$246aef60$e94743d8@oemcomputer> From: "nightfox23" To: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:13:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C02347.9C2207E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"jZfNa3.0.cU1.QDMov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16826 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: bedini scalarbeamer? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C02347.9C2207E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey I'm new to the group, I just have a question has anyone built that = scalarbeamer and gotten effects from it, I built it, I feel that I might = be able to feel the beam but at other times I think it might just be my = mind. Adam ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C02347.9C2207E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey I'm new to the group, I just have a = question=20 has anyone built that scalarbeamer and gotten effects from it, I built = it, I=20 feel that I might be able to feel the beam but at other times I think it = might=20 just be my mind.
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;    =20 Adam
 
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C02347.9C2207E0-- _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 18:48:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA29639; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003801c02368$2dd55320$b93dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:06:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"Fp4Dh1.0.uE7.MXMov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16828 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Beaty" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 > > Crude replication attempt failed! > > My old triple-beam balance can just barely detect 50-mG if I don't breathe > on it. I used an ultrasonic cleaner and agitated table salt in a small > (1") flat-bottomed glass bottle. The bottle GAINED somewhere around 50mG > afterwards. Probably adsorbed surface water? Maybe glass containers are a > bad idea, and plastic should be used. ********* May be a combination of the low resolution of your balance, plus the fact that actually, salt was pretty poor as the effect goes. Almost null. Nevertheless, your results are duly noted. > > A friend has a broken milligram balance. If I can repair it I'm in > business. ******** Good luck. I'll be awaiting word. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 18:52:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA29612; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:46:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:46:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002401c02367$8d8b63a0$b93dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <003a01c0231f$aaf95840$0364c8c8@mindspring> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:02:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"Xp3rq2.0.aE7.JXMov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16827 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lighton" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 > > This reminds me somewhat of the experiments a University of California at > Fullerton scientist did on apparent mass reduction in capacitors during > mechanical oscillation. Two rather distant parts of the same jigsaw puzzle. ******* The Woodward drive I presume. Fascinating device; one of the few that I hold out a lot of hope for! I hadn't thought of it, but yes, there might be some sort of Mach's principle connection invoked. The bothersome part is why the effect lingers after the direct vibrational input has ceased. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 18:57:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA29660; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:46:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:46:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004001c02369$6d845060$b93dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <003101c0235c$143ed780$6f736bc6@compaq> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:15:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"VbmpE3.0.LF7.PXMov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16829 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Edward; Tribo-gravity was a term coined by Thomas Townsend Brown in 1973 for an effect he observed whereby some materials seemed to lose apparent weight by being acoustically or frictionally excited. He never got a patent on it, presumably because he was never able to figure out the theory behind it! Nevertheless, I have been trying replications of this effect since the last week of August, and I believe it to be genuine. The original document by Brown may be found on the TT Brown website: http://www.soteria.com/brown/docs/patapps/gravity.pdf Good luck; NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "edward webber" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 > william i am new to this list so where can i learn more about this > tribo-gravity and get an introduction to it? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 19:16:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA25556; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:15:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:15:56 -0700 Message-ID: <005001c02370$d0bc8920$80736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <000f01c02369$246aef60$e94743d8@oemcomputer> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:08:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01C02336.238CA580" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"TNIYn1.0.9F6.SzMov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16830 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: bedini scalarbeamer? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C02336.238CA580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable adam i never heard of it can you tell me more about it and i am new to this = group also ----- Original Message -----=20 From: nightfox23=20 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 6:13 PM Subject: [FG]: bedini scalarbeamer? Hey I'm new to the group, I just have a question has anyone built that = scalarbeamer and gotten effects from it, I built it, I feel that I might = be able to feel the beam but at other times I think it might just be my = mind. Adam ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C02336.238CA580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
adam
i never heard of it can you tell me more about it = and i am new=20 to this group also
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 nightfox23
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, = 2000 6:13=20 PM
Subject: [FG]: bedini = scalarbeamer?

Hey I'm new to the group, I just have = a question=20 has anyone built that scalarbeamer and gotten effects from it, I built = it, I=20 feel that I might be able to feel the beam but at other times I think = it might=20 just be my mind.
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;    =20 Adam
 
------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C02336.238CA580-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 19:53:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12119; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:51:17 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <9ptiss84rbff17a7be4g0ph7ipiomd6lqa@4ax.com> References: <39C95D1C.44AB1047@harti.com> In-Reply-To: <39C95D1C.44AB1047@harti.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id TAA12008 Resent-Message-ID: <"4Yr4-3.0.Bz2.5VNov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16831 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[FG]:_Doug=B4s_pulsemotor_update_and_comments?= In reply to Stefan Hartmann's message of Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:58:04 +0200: [snip] >This sounds strange, but it is a way to harness the >Neutrinos, that are flowing from the Sun to the Earth ! >Every cm^2 there are 66 Billion Neutrinos, [snip] This represents about 4 milli-watt / cm^2. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 21:06:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA21020; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:05:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:05:45 -0700 Message-ID: <39C987D8.2904FC85@harti.com> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:00:24 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" , "ou-builders@egroups.com" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ic2qu1.0.C85.PaOov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16832 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: bifilar coil testatika machine effects...? Has anyone tested, if a DC current pulsed bifilar coil has any effect onto the output DC voltage of an electret if the bifilar coil is wound around the electret ?? I guess this could be a major effect inside the small 300 Watts Testatika machine ! >From some photos it looks like there are coils wound around around the electrets. It might be bifilar coils ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your webpages for every surfers click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 20 21:20:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA23932; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:15:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:15:20 -0700 Message-Id: <200009210414.PAA14945@turbo.turboweb.net.au> X-Mailer: Eudora Pro 1.1 for Newton Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:23:00 +1000 To: From: Allan Alderson Resent-Message-ID: <"6zhIl.0.nr5.OjOov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16833 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Am working on a theory which requires gravitons. I Am working on a theory which requires gravitons. Is the phase velocity through a previously charged dialectric the same through an previously uncharged one? Through - as in capacitor, not as in a coax cable. - Allan. ---- ---- ---- ---- Please reply with a 'plain text' message. adsaa@turboweb.net.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 03:16:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA21037; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:15:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:15:17 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002401c02367$8d8b63a0$b93dee3f@default> References: <003a01c0231f$aaf95840$0364c8c8@mindspring> <002401c02367$8d8b63a0$b93dee3f@default> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 00:15:10 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"G2eHS3.0.X85.q-Tov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16834 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 9:02 PM -0400 9/20/00, Nick Reiter wrote: > The bothersome part is why the effect lingers after the direct >vibrational input has ceased. Nick - The Wallace device had period of latent activity after rotation was stopped, according to his reports. Maybe the fast gyration of particles produces a net nuclear angular momentum similar to, and maybe even more effectively than, spinning a solid test mass. Since everyone seems to be pitching in to help with suggestions, here's my suggestion for an experimental test powder: ground up Pepto-Bismol tablets. There's bismuth in there, and bismuth is 'suspicious', as well as being an odd-nucleon Wallace type material. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 03:51:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA16649; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004d01c023ba$20d39400$363dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <003a01c0231f$aaf95840$0364c8c8@mindspring><002401c02367$8d8b63a0$b93dee3f@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:53:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"8aX3C1.0.244.mVUov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16835 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, Rick; See below: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Monteverde" To: Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 6:15 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 > The Wallace device had period of latent activity after rotation was > stopped, according to his reports. Maybe the fast gyration of > particles produces a net nuclear angular momentum similar to, and > maybe even more effectively than, spinning a solid test mass. > > Since everyone seems to be pitching in to help with suggestions, > here's my suggestion for an experimental test powder: ground up > Pepto-Bismol tablets. There's bismuth in there, and bismuth is > 'suspicious', as well as being an odd-nucleon Wallace type material. ******** OK, I'll put it on the list. I also have some bismuth as well, though I don't have a feel for whether it is brittle enough to be pulverized easily. Thanks for the idea. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 06:17:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA28356; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:16:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:16:40 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000921080942.00969b40@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:16:36 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Am working on a theory which requires gravitons. I In-Reply-To: <200009210414.PAA14945@turbo.turboweb.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"_GAjA1.0.zw6.teWov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16836 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Which phase? What dielectric? Phase velocity also is a direct function of frequency and has nothing to do with the dialectic. Are you possibly referring to molecular phase (as in an LCD display)? At 01:23 PM 9/21/00 +1000, you wrote: >Am working on a theory which requires gravitons. >Is the phase velocity through a previously charged dialectric the same >through an previously uncharged one? >Through - as in capacitor, not as in a coax cable. > > - Allan. >---- ---- ---- ---- > >Please reply with a 'plain text' message. >adsaa@turboweb.net.au __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 06:51:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA06802; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:50:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:50:18 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [162.39.245.203] From: "Colin Cain" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:49:46 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Sep 2000 13:49:46.0439 (UTC) FILETIME=[CD82F570:01C023D2] Resent-Message-ID: <"bG66F.0.8g1.P8Xov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16837 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bismuth must be much like lead. My local sporting goods store sells bismuth birdshot to reload shotgun shells. This is the source I consider tapping for bismuth. Another site about diamagnetic materials shows melting and pouring bismuth and the appearance of it is very similar to lead. CC >I also have some bismuth as well, >though I don't have a feel for whether it is brittle enough to be >pulverized >easily. Thanks for the idea. > >NR > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 08:27:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA07895; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:26:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:26:57 -0700 Message-ID: <39CA277E.4AD89D15@harti.com> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:21:34 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ou-builders@egroups.com" X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <000a01c023ac$46a15860$f6f2103f@old-konzen> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2cpk41.0.5x1.1ZYov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16838 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Milan confirms =?iso-8859-1?Q?SHAD=B4s?= theory for tapping ZPE... Hi, I am forwarding some comments from Milan which he posted inside the JLNLABS newsgroup about the tapping of ZPE with his FREQUENCIOLYSYS unit. He is currently looking for investors ! From: Milan Manchich Date: Thu Sep 21, 2000 1:07pm Subject: FREQUENCIOLYSYS AND BROKEN SYMMETRY Dear All, Here are several interesting effect based on the broken symmetry and unypolar filed. I used theory from the Shad and my results confirmed his theory. I have project which I call "FREQUENCIOLYSIS" It means splitting water with frequency as medium..not as power. I do that with "my coils" and little different plug between "my coils" and cell. Shad and me call this coils "MANCHA COILS" by my nickle name. It is main part of my inovations. Cell must to be with good geometry with bigger broken symmetry. I have disovered over 15 ways for using frequency for split water as medium. Some effects is: Voltage on the cell's terminals rise and current drop , but production is the same. If I add just a little new portion of frash water voltage drop and current grow. With higher frequency current drop, but production is better I can start spliting water by distance wireless with frequency. I did that with about 10 meters distance Voltage looks more important than current Destilated water is better than electrolyte Process is colder This process is not similar as Meyer's process or any other know to me. As you can see that thi process looks different than ordinary electrolysys. It could be new technology for splitting water with less needed wattage. It is not overunity and it is not my goal. I have reason to beleive that properties of this gas has much more energy inside but it is not confirmed. There is much more very interesting effects with my coils, but in this moment it will be enough what I have decribed. If somebody is interested to join me in this project please contact me. I'm only interested for partner ship or for an investitor. I'm not interested in sharing informations and I will not answer those e-mails. I know that my english is not well, but I hope that you will understand . Regards, Milan Manchich -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your webpages for every surfers click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 08:53:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA16627; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:52:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:52:37 -0700 Message-ID: <39CA2D70.7D5E9405@harti.com> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:46:56 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <000a01c023ac$46a15860$f6f2103f@old-konzen> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rL8DL3.0.X34.5xYov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16839 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?SHAD=B4s?= comments for tapping ZPE... Hi, I am forwarding some comments form SHAD which he posted inside the JLNLABS newsgroup about the tapping of ZPE with his Neutrinolysis unit and comments to the Konzen pulse motor and Testatika. Hi Harti and all others, it´s long I haven´t written here but now I feel I have to correct my friend Stefan Hartmann, because he here forwards some suggestions I gave to him a few days ago - it seems he misunderstood them. Before somebody starts doing unnescessary work, and before Harti is going to be frustrated about my suggestetions, I would like to tell here, why they can´t work in THIS case. > Also Try to use conical (pyramid) wound coils on your pickup coils > or your repell coils ! Thsi will > give a special vortex effect and enhance the > repelling or the power generation ! I gave this idea to you, Harti, regarding how to tap zpe with a coil, but this is not a common coil, but a how-do you-call-this-in-English-? "air-coil" - (Luftspule). A coil without core, as Tesla´s flat coil. But this thing will NOT work with an electro-magnet! An electro-magnet does NOT create open fields, nor broken symmetry, with which ZPE could be tapped. To be able to tap ZPE you will need unipolar fields, open field lines (broken symmetry) which in a resonance case will attract ZPE. This pulsemotor uses electro-magnets, which have CLOSED field lines, and like this give bad condition for tapping ZPE. I will attach a pic to give an imaginary explanation. So, in this case the conical pyramid coil which should function as a magnet is useless, and it would be waste of time and endeavour to try it in this case. These repulsing coils DO NOT DIRECTLY TAP ZPE, but do it indirectly by the repulsion. The coils by repulsing create an open field line (broken symmetry), by putting another field inbetween (like a sandwich). The field lines by repulsing are pushed away from each other and do not close with the opposite field, because in this situation we have a unipolar field order. Two similar fields collide or repulse and are not able to close with the opposite pole, as it usually is the case with common magnets. The open field lines (broken symmetry) reach into empty space and seek for their opposite pol. In case of resonance they attract the opposite pol out of ZPE, which in the right time shows as a free electron, and like this causes the opportunity for a electro-magnetic attraction. > You also can try to use special mineral crystals > near you pickup coils ! > These will "rectify" the ZPE energy and will > enhance the power output ! > Maybe also wind coils around them and put them > additionally to the other pickupo coils ! Do not put any mineral crystals or whatsoever on your coil, because you do not attract ZPE with the coil - but the field between the repulsing electro-magnets do, which are caused by repulsion of the poles of two magnets. The tapping and transformation occures in the air between two repulsing magnets and NOT in the coils of electro-magnets, as Harti thinks. I suggested Harti to use mineral crystals as sand or other similar dialectricas, to deaccelerate ZPE waves (neutrinos). The transformation process proceeds much to rapid inside the copper wires, and another points is that the waves might flight through the wires and are gone, if they aren´t deaccelerated by a dialectrica. > This sounds strange, but it is a way to harness the > Neutrinos, that are flowing from the Sun to the Earth ! > Every cm^2 there are 66 Billion Neutrinos, > but you can only harness them, if you deaccelerate > them with dielectric material like water or > mineral crystals and use open unipolar fields > around them with coils or electric fields ! These ZPE waves fly even faster then the speed of light. By leaving vacuum and entering our atmosphere because of the conductivity of our atmosphere they start to oscillate. Once they oscillate as dialectric wave and in the next moment as a free electron and then back to dialectric waves, and so forth... The higher the speed the more rapid is the change between dialectric wave and the free electron, and the higher also is the frequency. This process depends on the conductivity of the medium. The vacuum in outer space is the most extreme case-> there is no conductivity and there is no chance for a reciprocal action, where the ZPE could show as a free electron, nor could em-waves could result from them, because of the lacking conductivity. Our atmosphere up to 10 kilometers has the proper electric conductivity so that ZPE in the right time can materialize as a free electrone, and like this become useful energy for our practical work. The ionisphere the process goes much faster because this ionisphere is much more conductive then our atmosphere. That´s also one reason why in the higher areas it is much colder weather then here. The air between the repulsing magnets in this case replaces the dialectrica, where I suggested Harti to use the mineral crystals, etc. This dialectric conductivity helps in the transformation of ZPE in the time where they show as free electrone. To improve the effect in this system one could try to bring the open field lines into the right resonance with ZPE. But also Harti´s suggestion with the spark gaps should be followed. The spark itself creates open fields, and has the quality to bind ZPE if being in resonance with this one. The Newman machine gets most of its OU-energy from this spark gap. Testika on the other hand has similarities to this pulsemotor: the two opposite rotating discs with electrets mounted on them catch a field between their electrets (sandwich, remember?) and create open field lines. And also in this case repulsing fields are created. The electrets themselves have an electrical field, which maintains itself by electricity of the air -> negative ions. They decharge in repulsion and create open field lines because they cannot close with the opposit pole. If these open field lines are in resonance with ZPE a reciprocal action, and electro-magnetical attraction will result. But I am sure that somewhere in this unit some more energy is tapped, which might be hidden, bifilar coils, spark gaps, a flat Tesla coil, or maybe a Mobius coil etc... no idea... but there must be something else. Static electricity cannot be the only cause, because it has to little open field lines, and in this way is not able to tap as much energy as their output shows. To be able to attract ZPE and to transform it some basic conditions must be fulfilled: - unipolar field order and open field lines (broken symmetry) - best possible resonance of the open field line with the ZPE waves - the proper conductivity of the medium, so the ZPE waves will diffuse in the right time There are some further details but this were the most important ones. I hope this could help some of you, and that my friend Harti did/does not experience unnescessary dissapointments with misunderstanding my explanation. If there are any further questions or comments, let me know! Best regards, Shad -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your webpages for every surfers click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 10:06:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA13268; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:05:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:05:56 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:05:47 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"uqs-4.0.9F3.q_Zov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16840 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 1:49 PM +0000 9/21/00, Colin Cain wrote: >Bismuth must be much like lead. My local sporting goods store sells >bismuth birdshot to reload shotgun shells. This is the source I >consider tapping for bismuth. Another site about diamagnetic >materials shows melting and pouring bismuth and the appearance of it >is very similar to lead. Pepto Bismol contains a bisuth compound. You can see obvious diamagnetic properties with a PB tablet and a strong magnet, and it should grind up well. The raw metal is fairly brittle but not very hard. Harder than lead though, about like solder, in which it is sometimes used. I have some bismuth powder but the grain size isn't flour fine - it's about perhaps 60 grit size. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 10:21:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA18545; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:21:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:21:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:21:03 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 In-Reply-To: <003101c0235c$143ed780$6f736bc6@compaq> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"IkL7S2.0.gX4.4Eaov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16841 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, edward webber wrote: > william i am new to this list so where can i learn more about this > tribo-gravity and get an introduction to it? Read the thread at http://www.escribe.com/science/freenrg/ ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 13:01:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA06244; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002401c02405$847d1440$79736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <003a01c0231f$aaf95840$0364c8c8@mindspring><002401c02367$8d8b63a0$b93dee3f@default> <004d01c023ba$20d39400$363dee3f@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:52:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"z0lX_3.0.MX1.YZcov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16842 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com nick does this tribo gravity have anything to doo with eg or electro-gravity? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Reiter" To: Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 > Hi, Rick; > > See below: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Monteverde" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 6:15 AM > Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 > > > > > The Wallace device had period of latent activity after rotation was > > stopped, according to his reports. Maybe the fast gyration of > > particles produces a net nuclear angular momentum similar to, and > > maybe even more effectively than, spinning a solid test mass. > > > > Since everyone seems to be pitching in to help with suggestions, > > here's my suggestion for an experimental test powder: ground up > > Pepto-Bismol tablets. There's bismuth in there, and bismuth is > > 'suspicious', as well as being an odd-nucleon Wallace type material. > > ******** OK, I'll put it on the list. I also have some bismuth as well, > though I don't have a feel for whether it is brittle enough to be pulverized > easily. Thanks for the idea. > > NR > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 15:21:51 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA21418; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003801c02419$d3563b00$623dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <003a01c0231f$aaf95840$0364c8c8@mindspring><002401c02367$8d8b63a0$b93dee3f@default> <004d01c023ba$20d39400$363dee3f@default> <002401c02405$847d1440$79736 bc6@compaq> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:18:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"xDqFs.0.YE5.EYeov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16843 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "edward webber" To: Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 > nick does this tribo gravity have anything to doo with eg or > electro-gravity? Edward; It may, but if it does, it would seem to be something that is down at the molecular level. It would be neat if the effect was influenced by external electrostatic or magnetic fields, but it doesn't seem to be. Whatever this effect is, presumably it has to do with inter-atomic or inter-molecular bonds. I have also been thinking about whether the theory of Dark Matter might fit in somehow, but I don't know enough about that theory. My hunch is that the effect eluded explanation by Dr. Brown because it genuinely was outside of the paradigm he was working with; electrogravitic coupling. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 16:14:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA00376; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:13:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:13:50 -0700 Message-ID: <004901c02420$89edf280$79736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:06:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0046_01C023E5.DCBE0EE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"U5mui2.0.W5.jOfov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16844 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: parr gravity wheel This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C023E5.DCBE0EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable anyone in this group ever tried to duplicate the joe par gravity wheel = experiment? if so what does it cost to put one together and what is = needed in the parts list? i would like to try it. ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C023E5.DCBE0EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
anyone in this group ever tried to duplicate the joe = par=20 gravity wheel experiment? if so what does it cost to put one together = and what=20 is needed in the parts list? i would like to try = it.
------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C023E5.DCBE0EE0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 16:22:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA02136; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:21:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:21:35 -0700 Message-ID: <01d201c02422$8d858640$85035bd1@default> From: "chuck's corner" To: References: <003a01c0231f$aaf95840$0364c8c8@mindspring><002401c02367$8d8b63a0$b93dee3f@default> <004d01c023ba$20d39400$363dee3f@default> <002401c02405$847d1440$79736 bc6@compaq> <003801c02419$d3563b00$623dee3f@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:20:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"VXm6_2.0.AX.yVfov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16845 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Nick and all, I'm kind'a curious..... in your experiments do you know the "agitating frequencie(s)" the cleaner operates on....? secondly ....(and bear with me here ) have you tried different containers or different compositions of containers?...... third, have you tried different shapes....? and lastly, is it possible that the aggregate size is relative to frequencies in the effects you are experiencing......? I have no verifiable reason for my questions as yet but if you should find a link here I would love to get into it further as I think I may see a link...... (long story that deserves an audience at another time....) respectfully, Chuck Farrar farrar@together.net ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Reiter To: Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "edward webber" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 3:52 PM > Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 > > > > nick does this tribo gravity have anything to doo with eg or > > electro-gravity? > > Edward; > > It may, but if it does, it would seem to be something that is down at the > molecular level. It would be neat if the effect was influenced by external > electrostatic or magnetic fields, but it doesn't seem to be. Whatever this > effect is, presumably it has to do with inter-atomic or inter-molecular > bonds. I have also been thinking about whether the theory of Dark Matter > might fit in somehow, but I don't know enough about that theory. My hunch > is that the effect eluded explanation by Dr. Brown because it genuinely was > outside of the paradigm he was working with; electrogravitic coupling. > > NR > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 17:02:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA17827; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:01:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:01:52 -0700 Message-ID: <004c01c02420$ce48ba00$79736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <003a01c0231f$aaf95840$0364c8c8@mindspring><002401c02367$8d8b63a0$b93dee3f@default> <004d01c023ba$20d39400$363dee3f@default> <002401c02405$847d1440$79736 bc6@compaq> <003801c02419$d3563b00$623dee3f@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:08:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"zMbYj2.0.SM4.l5gov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16846 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com does it relate to the joe or o cell or the vaccuum triode amplifier? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Reiter" To: Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "edward webber" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 3:52 PM > Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity part 3 > > > > nick does this tribo gravity have anything to doo with eg or > > electro-gravity? > > Edward; > > It may, but if it does, it would seem to be something that is down at the > molecular level. It would be neat if the effect was influenced by external > electrostatic or magnetic fields, but it doesn't seem to be. Whatever this > effect is, presumably it has to do with inter-atomic or inter-molecular > bonds. I have also been thinking about whether the theory of Dark Matter > might fit in somehow, but I don't know enough about that theory. My hunch > is that the effect eluded explanation by Dr. Brown because it genuinely was > outside of the paradigm he was working with; electrogravitic coupling. > > NR > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 18:29:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA21651; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:28:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:28:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:28:25 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wm2dZ1.0.8I5.zMhov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16847 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: HV stuff for sale ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 21:25:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob Levitt To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Link Dear Mr. Bill Beatty: Please have a look at my for sale page of hard to find electronic items like high-voltage rectifiers and relays, polypropylene capacitors, etc at http://www3.sympatico.ca/metaphors/sale1.htm It is a sale of much of my 28 year accumulation of parts. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 23:06:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA11842; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 23:05:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 23:05:38 -0700 Message-ID: <00e501c02459$6dd15ae0$6f12fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: , "Skywatch_Discussion \(E-mail\)" , "kroniatalk" , , "energy21" , , , , "Shamans Garden" , , , , , , , Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:53:13 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"22-Bt3.0.ku2.oQlov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16848 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Fw: No on Bill 602P=E-mailCharge-IMPORTANT READ ----- Original Message ----- From: "heimstadt" To: ; "ph-l" Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 10:00 PM Subject: No on Bill 602P=E-mailCharge-IMPORTANT READ I guess the warnings were true. Federal Bill 602P 5-cents per E-mail Sent. It figures! No more free E-mail! We knew this was coming!! Bill 602P will permit the Federal Government to charge a 5-cent charge on every delivered E-mail. Please read the following carefully if you intend to stay online, and continue using E-mail. The last few months have revealed an alarming trend in the Government of the United States attempting to quietly push through legislation that will affect our use of the Internet. Under proposed legislation, the US Postal Service will be attempting to bill E-mail users out of "alternative postage fees." Bill 602P will permit the Federal Government to charge a 5-cent surcharge on every E-mail delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP. Washington DC lawyer Richard Stepp is working without pay to prevent this legislation from becoming law. The US Postal Service is claiming lost revenue, due to the proliferation of E-mail, is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year. You may have noticed their recent ad campaign: "There is nothing like a letter." Since the average person received about 10 pieces of E-mail per day in 1998, the cost of the typical individual would be an additional 50 cents a day -- or over $180 per year -- above and beyond their regular Internet costs. Note that this would be money paid directly to the US Postal Service for a service they do not even provide. The whole point of the Internet is democracy and noninterference. You are already paying an exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureaucratic efficiency. It currently takes up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from coast to coast. If the US Postal Service is allowed to tinker with E-mail, it will mark the end of the "free" Internet in the United States. Our congressional representative, Tony Schnell (R) has even suggested a "$20-$40 per month surcharge on all Internet service" above and beyond the governments proposed E-mail charges. Note that most of the major newspapers have ignored the story -- the only exception being the Washingtonian - which called the idea of E-mail surcharge "a useful concept who's time has come" (March 6th, 1999 Editorial). Do not sit by and watch your freedom erode away! Send this to E-mail to EVERYONE on your list, and tell all your friends and relatives write their congressional representative and say "NO" to Bill 602P. It will only take a few moments of your time and could very well be instrumental in killing a bill we do not want. Please forward! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ph-l-unsubscribe@sooth.com For additional commands, e-mail: ph-l-help@sooth.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 21 23:32:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA17010; Thu, 21 Sep 2000 23:28:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 23:28:39 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.28.94.140] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, blackvault@topica.com, skywatch_discussion@egroups.com, kroniatalk@telelists.com, whirlpower@egroups.com, energy21@listbot.com, Entheogens@egroups.com, the_octopus@egroups.com, thelema93-l@egroups.com, info@shamansgarden.com, ibogaine@ibogaine.org, time-space@egroups.com, time@egroups.com, mindfire@pacificcoast.net, astro-forum@egroups.com, iufo@topica.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Fw: No on Bill 602P=E-mailCharge-IMPORTANT READ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 23:27:52 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Sep 2000 06:27:53.0196 (UTC) FILETIME=[3CCCE2C0:01C0245E] Resent-Message-ID: <"iPBgL2.0.N94.Hmlov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16849 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/dir.99.05.24-99.05.30/msg00231.html Re: SNET: E-mail Surcharge: Bill 602P ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" , cypherpunks@cyberpass.net * Subject: Re: SNET: E-mail Surcharge: Bill 602P * From: Bill Stewart * Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:44:50 -0700 * Cc: summit@specent.com * In-Reply-To: <199905280338.UAA22770@netcom13.netcom.com> * Old-Subject: Re: SNET: E-mail Surcharge: Bill 602P * Sender: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This is a rapidly-spreading hoax. There _is_ no Bill 602P in either the US House or Senate. There is also no Congresscritter Tony Schnell. The "Washingtonian" newspaper, if it exists, is neither the Washingon Post or the Washington Times, so it's not a major DC newspaper, and it's also not the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. Also, the Post Office may currently be doing very obnoxious things with the public's right to have private mailboxes, but this isn't something they're currently up to. The question is _who_ is spreading this rumor and why. Is it somebody trying to get donations? Is the PO trying to hide complaints about mailboxes by having a large number of totally bogus crank complaints covering them? >From: "Anna M*" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: , "Skywatch_Discussion \(E-mail\)" >, "kroniatalk" >, , "energy21" >, , >, , "Shamans >Garden" , , >, , >, , >, >Subject: [FG]: Fw: No on Bill 602P=E-mailCharge-IMPORTANT READ >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:53:13 -0700 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "heimstadt" >To: ; "ph-l" >Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 10:00 PM >Subject: No on Bill 602P=E-mailCharge-IMPORTANT READ > > > I guess the warnings were true. Federal Bill > 602P 5-cents per E-mail Sent. It figures! No more free > E-mail! We knew this was coming!! Bill 602P will > permit the Federal Government to charge a 5-cent > charge on every delivered E-mail. > > Please read the following carefully if you > intend to stay online, and continue using E-mail. The > last few months have revealed an alarming trend in the > Government of the United States attempting to quietly > push through legislation that will affect our use of > the Internet. > > Under proposed legislation, the US Postal > Service will be attempting to bill E-mail users out of > "alternative postage fees." Bill 602P will permit the > Federal Government to charge a 5-cent surcharge on > every E-mail delivered, by billing Internet Service > Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed > in turn by the ISP. > > Washington DC lawyer Richard Stepp is > working without pay to prevent this legislation from > becoming law. The US Postal Service is claiming lost > revenue, due to the proliferation of E-mail, is > costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year. You > may have noticed their recent ad campaign: "There is > nothing like a letter." > > Since the average person received about 10 > pieces of E-mail per day in 1998, the cost of the > typical individual would be an additional 50 cents a > day -- or over $180 per year -- above and beyond their > regular Internet costs. Note that this would be money > paid directly to the US Postal Service for a service > they do not even provide. The whole point of the > Internet is democracy and noninterference. You are > already paying an exorbitant price for snail mail > because of bureaucratic efficiency. It currently takes > up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from coast > to coast. If the US Postal Service is allowed to > tinker with E-mail, it will mark the end of the "free" > Internet in the United States. Our congressional > representative, Tony Schnell (R) has even suggested a > "$20-$40 per month surcharge on all Internet service" > above and beyond the governments proposed E-mail > charges. > > Note that most of the major newspapers have > ignored the story -- the only exception being the > Washingtonian - which called the idea of E-mail > surcharge "a useful concept who's time has come" > (March 6th, 1999 Editorial). > > Do not sit by and watch your freedom erode > away! Send this to E-mail to EVERYONE on your list, > and tell all your friends and relatives write their > congressional representative and say "NO" to Bill > 602P. It will only take a few moments of your time and > could very well be instrumental in killing a bill we > do not want. > > Please forward! > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: ph-l-unsubscribe@sooth.com >For additional commands, e-mail: ph-l-help@sooth.com > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 22 00:19:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA22075; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <12211512.969607087384.JavaMail.imail@batty.excite.com> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:18:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Reply-To: To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Fw: No on Bill 602P=E-mailCharge-IMPORTANT READ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 209.252.213.43 Resent-Message-ID: <"U4u_I.0.oO5.FVmov"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16850 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Please, I encourage you, write your senator. (S)He will inform you that this is merely a myth that has been cycling about the Internet for ~3 years. At one point, the USPS _did_ consider an E-mail tax. However, in the face of the relentless user protests, and the daunting, multimillion dollar upgrade to actually track all the E-mails (without borrowing Carnivore of course) the concept was retracted almost immediately. Please reference http://www.urbanlegends.com/ before passing any horror stories to your friends, family, or listbot. -Sean Athelas0@excite.com "I can picture a world without hat, without war, without violence. And I can see us conquering that world, because they'd never expect it..." On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:53:13 -0700, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "heimstadt" | To: ; "ph-l" | Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 10:00 PM | Subject: No on Bill 602P=E-mailCharge-IMPORTANT READ | | | I guess the warnings were true. Federal Bill | 602P 5-cents per E-mail Sent. It figures! No more free | E-mail! We knew this was coming!! Bill 602P will | permit the Federal Government to charge a 5-cent | charge on every delivered E-mail. | | Please read the following carefully if you | intend to stay online, and continue using E-mail. The | last few months have revealed an alarming trend in the | Government of the United States attempting to quietly | push through legislation that will affect our use of | the Internet. | | Under proposed legislation, the US Postal | Service will be attempting to bill E-mail users out of | "alternative postage fees." Bill 602P will permit the | Federal Government to charge a 5-cent surcharge on | every E-mail delivered, by billing Internet Service | Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed | in turn by the ISP. | | Washington DC lawyer Richard Stepp is | working without pay to prevent this legislation from | becoming law. The US Postal Service is claiming lost | revenue, due to the proliferation of E-mail, is | costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year. You | may have noticed their recent ad campaign: "There is | nothing like a letter." | | Since the average person received about 10 | pieces of E-mail per day in 1998, the cost of the | typical individual would be an additional 50 cents a | day -- or over $180 per year -- above and beyond their | regular Internet costs. Note that this would be money | paid directly to the US Postal Service for a service | they do not even provide. The whole point of the | Internet is democracy and noninterference. You are | already paying an exorbitant price for snail mail | because of bureaucratic efficiency. It currently takes | up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from coast | to coast. If the US Postal Service is allowed to | tinker with E-mail, it will mark the end of the "free" | Internet in the United States. Our congressional | representative, Tony Schnell (R) has even suggested a | "$20-$40 per month surcharge on all Internet service" | above and beyond the governments proposed E-mail | charges. | | Note that most of the major newspapers have | ignored the story -- the only exception being the | Washingtonian - which called the idea of E-mail | surcharge "a useful concept who's time has come" | (March 6th, 1999 Editorial). | | Do not sit by and watch your freedom erode | away! Send this to E-mail to EVERYONE on your list, | and tell all your friends and relatives write their | congressional representative and say "NO" to Bill | 602P. It will only take a few moments of your time and | could very well be instrumental in killing a bill we | do not want. | | Please forward! | | | | --------------------------------------------------------------------- | To unsubscribe, e-mail: ph-l-unsubscribe@sooth.com | For additional commands, e-mail: ph-l-help@sooth.com | | _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 22 00:28:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA28948; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:23:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:22:57 -0700 Message-ID: <014901c02464$3da30fc0$6f12fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: , References: Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:10:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0145_01C02429.8EE7F840" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"s-68i2.0.z37.FZmov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16851 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: [Entheogens] Re: [FG]: Fw: No on Bill 602P=E-mailCharge-IMPORTANT READ This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0145_01C02429.8EE7F840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are you sure that is a hoax? If so, I am sorry for forwarding this post. Anna ----- Original Message ----- From: Timothy Flytch To:Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:27 PM Subject: [Entheogens] Re: [FG]: Fw: No on Bill 602P=E-mailCharge-IMPORTANT READ My Groups | Entheogens Main Page | Start a new group! http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/dir.99.05.24-99.05.30/msg00231.html Re: SNET: E-mail Surcharge: Bill 602P ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" , cypherpunks@cyberpass.net * Subject: Re: SNET: E-mail Surcharge: Bill 602P * From: Bill Stewart * Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:44:50 -0700 * Cc: summit@specent.com * In-Reply-To: <199905280338.UAA22770@netcom13.netcom.com> * Old-Subject: Re: SNET: E-mail Surcharge: Bill 602P * Sender: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This is a rapidly-spreading hoax. There _is_ no Bill 602P in either the US House or Senate. There is also no Congresscritter Tony Schnell. The "Washingtonian" newspaper, if it exists, is neither the Washingon Post or the Washington Times, so it's not a major DC newspaper, and it's also not the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. Also, the Post Office may currently be doing very obnoxious things with the public's right to have private mailboxes, but this isn't something they're currently up to. The question is _who_ is spreading this rumor and why. Is it somebody trying to get donations? Is the PO trying to hide complaints about mailboxes by having a large number of totally bogus crank complaints covering them? >From: "Anna M*" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: , "Skywatch_Discussion \(E-mail\)" >, "kroniatalk" >, , "energy21" >, , >, , "Shamans >Garden" , , >, , >, , >, >Subject: [FG]: Fw: No on Bill 602P=E-mailCharge-IMPORTANT READ >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:53:13 -0700 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "heimstadt" >To: ; "ph-l" >Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 10:00 PM >Subject: No on Bill 602P=E-mailCharge-IMPORTANT READ > > > I guess the warnings were true. Federal Bill > 602P 5-cents per E-mail Sent. It figures! No more free > E-mail! We knew this was coming!! Bill 602P will > permit the Federal Government to charge a 5-cent > charge on every delivered E-mail. > > Please read the following carefully if you > intend to stay online, and continue using E-mail. The > last few months have revealed an alarming trend in the > Government of the United States attempting to quietly > push through legislation that will affect our use of > the Internet. > > Under proposed legislation, the US Postal > Service will be attempting to bill E-mail users out of > "alternative postage fees." Bill 602P will permit the > Federal Government to charge a 5-cent surcharge on > every E-mail delivered, by billing Internet Service > Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed > in turn by the ISP. > > Washington DC lawyer Richard Stepp is > working without pay to prevent this legislation from > becoming law. The US Postal Service is claiming lost > revenue, due to the proliferation of E-mail, is > costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year. You > may have noticed their recent ad campaign: "There is > nothing like a letter." > > Since the average person received about 10 > pieces of E-mail per day in 1998, the cost of the > typical individual would be an additional 50 cents a > day -- or over $180 per year -- above and beyond their > regular Internet costs. Note that this would be money > paid directly to the US Postal Service for a service > they do not even provide. The whole point of the > Internet is democracy and noninterference. You are > already paying an exorbitant price for snail mail > because of bureaucratic efficiency. It currently takes > up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from coast > to coast. If the US Postal Service is allowed to > tinker with E-mail, it will mark the end of the "free" > Internet in the United States. Our congressional > representative, Tony Schnell (R) has even suggested a > "$20-$40 per month surcharge on all Internet service" > above and beyond the governments proposed E-mail > charges. > > Note that most of the major newspapers have > ignored the story -- the only exception being the > Washingtonian - which called the idea of E-mail > surcharge "a useful concept who's time has come" > (March 6th, 1999 Editorial). > > Do not sit by and watch your freedom erode > away! Send this to E-mail to EVERYONE on your list, > and tell all your friends and relatives write their > congressional representative and say "NO" to Bill > 602P. It will only take a few moments of your time and > could very well be instrumental in killing a bill we > do not want. > > Please forward! > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: ph-l-unsubscribe@sooth.com >For additional commands, e-mail: ph-l-help@sooth.com > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Entheogens-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_0145_01C02429.8EE7F840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Are you sure that is a hoax?  If so, I am sorry = for=20 forwarding this post.
Anna
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Timothy=20 Flytch
To:Sent: Thursday, = September 21,=20 2000 11:27 PM
Subject: [Entheogens] Re: [FG]: = Fw: No on=20 Bill 602P=3DE-mailCharge-IMPORTANT READ


3D""
3DeGroups My=20 Groups | Entheogens Main = Page=20 | Start a new=20 group!=20

http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/dir.99.05.24-99.05.30/msg0023= 1.html

Re:=20 SNET: E-mail Surcharge: Bill=20 = 602P
-----------------------------------------------------------------= -------

*     =20 To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com>, cypherpunks@cyberpass.net*     =20 Subject: Re: SNET: E-mail Surcharge: Bill=20 602P
*      From: Bill Stewart <bill.stewart@pobox.com>
= *     =20 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:44:50 = -0700
*      Cc:=20 summit@specent.com
*  = ;   =20 In-Reply-To: <199905280338.UA= A22770@netcom13.netcom.com>
*     =20 Old-Subject: Re: SNET: E-mail Surcharge: Bill=20 602P
*      Sender: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.C= OM


-------------------------------------------------------= -----------------



This=20 is a rapidly-spreading hoax.
There _is_ no Bill 602P in either the = US House=20 or Senate.
There is also no Congresscritter Tony Schnell.
The=20 "Washingtonian" newspaper, if it exists, is=20 neither
      the Washingon Post or the = Washington=20 Times,
      so it's not a major DC = newspaper, and=20 it's
      also not the Seattle=20 Post-Intelligencer.

Also, the Post Office may currently be = doing very=20 obnoxious things
with the public's right to have private = mailboxes,
but=20 this isn't something they're currently up to.

The question is = _who_ is=20 spreading this rumor and why.
Is it somebody trying to get = donations?
Is=20 the PO trying to hide complaints about mailboxes
by having a large = number=20 of totally bogus crank complaints covering them?


>From: = "Anna=20 M*" <pantheon@ix.netcom.com>
>Reply-To:=20 freenrg-l@eskimo.com
>To:=20 = <blackvault@topica.com>,        = "Skywatch_Discussion \(E-mail\)"=20 =
><skywatch_discussion@egroups.com>,    &= nbsp;  =20 "kroniatalk"
><kroniatalk@telelists.com>,=20 = <whirlpower@egroups.com>,       = =20 "energy21"
><energy21@listbot.com>,=20 = <Entheogens@egroups.com>,       = =20
><the_octopus@egroups.com>,=20 = <thelema93-l@egroups.com>,       = ;=20 "Shamans
>Garden" <info@shamansgarden.com>,=20 = <ibogaine@ibogaine.org>,        =
><time-space@egroups.com>,=20 <time@egroups.com>,       =20
><mindfire@pacificcoast.net>,=20 = <astro-forum@egroups.com>,       = ;=20
><freenrg-l@eskimo.com>, = <iufo@topica.com>
>Subject:=20 [FG]: Fw: No on Bill 602P=3DE-mailCharge-IMPORTANT READ
>Date: = Thu, 21 Sep=20 2000 22:53:13 -0700
>
>----- Original Message = -----
>From:=20 "heimstadt" <child@northcoast.com>
>To:=20 <H-PSYCHOHISTORY@H-NET.MSU.EDU>; "ph-l"=20 <ph-l@sooth.com>
>Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 10:00 = PM
>Subject: No on Bill 602P=3DE-mailCharge-IMPORTANT=20 READ
>
>
>    I guess the warnings = were true.=20 Federal Bill
>  602P 5-cents per E-mail Sent. It figures! = No more=20 free
>  E-mail! We knew this was coming!! Bill 602P=20 will
>  permit the Federal Government to charge a=20 5-cent
>  charge on every delivered=20 E-mail.
>
>    Please read the following = carefully=20 if you
>  intend to stay online, and continue using E-mail. = The
>  last few months have revealed an alarming trend in=20 the
>  Government of the United States attempting to=20 quietly
>  push through legislation that will affect our = use=20 of
>  the Internet.
>
>    Under = proposed legislation, the US Postal
>  Service will be = attempting=20 to bill E-mail users out of
>  "alternative postage fees." = Bill=20 602P will permit the
>  Federal Government to charge a = 5-cent=20 surcharge on
>  every E-mail delivered, by billing Internet = Service
>  Providers at source. The consumer would then be=20 billed
>  in turn by the = ISP.
>
>   =20 Washington DC lawyer Richard Stepp is
>  working without = pay to=20 prevent this legislation from
>  becoming law. The US = Postal=20 Service is claiming lost
>  revenue, due to the = proliferation of=20 E-mail, is
>  costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per = year.=20 You
>  may have noticed their recent ad campaign: "There=20 is
>  nothing like a = letter."
>
>   =20 Since the average person received about 10
>  pieces of = E-mail per=20 day in 1998, the cost of the
>  typical individual would be = an=20 additional 50 cents a
>  day -- or over $180 per year -- = above and=20 beyond their
>  regular Internet costs. Note that this = would be=20 money
>  paid directly to the US Postal Service for a=20 service
>  they do not even provide. The whole point of=20 the
>  Internet is democracy and noninterference. You=20 are
>  already paying an exorbitant price for snail=20 mail
>  because of bureaucratic efficiency. It currently=20 takes
>  up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from=20 coast
>  to coast. If the US Postal Service is allowed=20 to
>  tinker with E-mail, it will mark the end of the=20 "free"
>  Internet in the United States. Our=20 congressional
>  representative, Tony Schnell (R) has even=20 suggested a
>  "$20-$40 per month surcharge on all Internet = service"
>  above and beyond the governments proposed=20 E-mail
>  charges.
>
>    Note = that most=20 of the major newspapers have
>  ignored the story -- the = only=20 exception being the
>  Washingtonian - which called the = idea of=20 E-mail
>  surcharge "a useful concept who's time has=20 come"
>  (March 6th, 1999=20 Editorial).
>
>    Do not sit by and watch = your=20 freedom erode
>  away! Send this to E-mail to EVERYONE on = your=20 list,
>  and tell all your friends and relatives write=20 their
>  congressional representative and say "NO" to=20 Bill
>  602P. It will only take a few moments of your time=20 and
>  could very well be instrumental in killing a bill=20 we
>  do not want.
>
>    Please = = forward!
>
>
>
>---------------------------------= ------------------------------------
>To=20 unsubscribe, e-mail: ph-l-unsubscribe@sooth.com
>For additional=20 commands, e-mail:=20 = ph-l-help@sooth.com
>
>

______________________________= ___________________________________________
Get=20 Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share= =20 information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 = to:
Entheogens-unsubscribe@egroups.com


------=_NextPart_000_0145_01C02429.8EE7F840-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 22 01:34:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA10639; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:33:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:33:43 -0700 Message-ID: <015e01c0246e$09e6d860$6f12fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , References: <71.6cc91c8.26fc599a@aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:20:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0159_01C02433.57150020" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"QtQvi.0.0c2.dbnov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16852 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: [t93] Fw: No on Bill 602P This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C02433.57150020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am sorry if this was a spam. Are you sure about it? I was under the impression that this was a fact and that is why I forwarded the original post from the pH.history group. Anna ----- Original Message ----- From: rikb2@aol.com To: thelema93-l@egroups.com ; blackvault@topica.com ; skywatch_discussion@egroups.com ; kroniatalk@telelists.com ; whirlpower@egroups.com ; energy21@listbot.com ; Entheogens@egroups.com ; the_octopus@egroups.com ; info@shamansgarden.com ; ibogaine@ibogaine.org ; time-space@egroups.com ; time@egroups.com ; mindfire@pacificcoast.net ; astro-forum@egroups.com ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; iufo@topica.com Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [t93] Fw: No on Bill 602P My Groups | thelema93-l Main Page | Start a new group! Sorry for the crosspost, but I've seen this one too many times to continue putting up with it. What an odd collection of groups to spam with this. 93 93/93 RIKB ____________________ I have attached an excerpt from an article on this urban legend I recently read on the Internet TOURBUS. By the way, if you do not yet subscribe to TOURBUS, I strongly recommend that you do. TOURBUS is a free, semi-weekly Internet newsletter that tells you about the latest Internet sites and helps you debunk the latest Internet urban legends. I have included TOURBUS subscription information at the bottom of this message. ----------------------------------------------------------- Urban Legend Update: Postage Surcharge Story -- 1 June 1999 ----------------------------------------------------------- About a month ago, a story circulated around the Net warning Canadians that ... Bill 602P will permit the Federal Govt to charge a 5 cent surcharge on every email delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP. Toronto lawyer Richard Stepp QC is working to prevent this legislation from becoming law. The Canada Post Corporation is claiming that lost revenue due to the proliferation of email is costing nearly $23,000,000 in revenue per year ... The letter goes on to warn that ... One back-bencher, Liberal Tony Schnell (NB) has even suggested a "twenty to forty dollar per month surcharge on all Internet service" above and beyond the government's proposed email charges ... Fortunately, the letter is yet another Internet hoax. According to a recent column in the Toronto Sun, Don't rush to the keyboards and phones. The lawyer does not exist. The law firm whose name appears on the alert does not exist. There is no MP named Schnell. Forget Bill 602P; that's not even the way bills are numbered. [quote shamelessly stolen from David Emery's "Email Tax for Canada" column, which we will talk about in a moment ... maybe.] Proving the old saying "everything old is new again," here is a recent story that has been floating around the Net. See if you notice any similarities. The story says that Bill 602P will permit the [US] Federal Govt to charge a 5 cent surcharge on every email delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP. Washington D.C. lawyer Richard Stepp is working without pay to prevent this legislation from becoming law. The U.S. Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue due to the proliferation of email is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year. The letter goes on to warn that One congressman, Tony Schnell (r) has even suggested a "twenty to forty dollar per month surcharge on all Internet service" above and beyond the government's proposed email charges Deja vu? Yep. The message floating around the Net right now is almost word for word the same message that floated around Canada in May. [I particularly enjoyed the fact that Mr. Schnell was able to switch from being a Canadian Liberal to being an American Republican in less than a month -- ain't technology wonderful?!] For the record, both stories are hoaxes. Neither Canada nor the US is considering an email surcharge. Neither Canada nor the US has a lawmaker named "Tony Schnell" [that's what happens when you jump parties!]. Neither Canada nor the US has a bill 602P (in Canada, bills from the Senate begin with the letter S and bills from the Commons begin with the letter C; in the US, bills from the Senate begin with the letter S and bills from the House begin with the letter H). Finally, neither Toronto nor Washington has a lawyer named Richard Stepp. ... and, no, Australia isn't considering an email surcharge either. :P For more information about this story, visit David Emery's new site at http://urbanlegends.about.com/ =====================[ Tourbus Rider Information ]=================== The Internet Tourbus - U.S. Library of Congress ISSN #1094-2238 Copyright 1995-2000, Rankin & Crispen - All rights reserved Archives on the Web at http://www.TOURBUS.com/ Join: Send SUBSCRIBE TOURBUS Your Name to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Leave: Send SIGNOFF TOURBUS to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Send this copy to 3 friends and tell them to hop on the Bus! ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: thelema93-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C02433.57150020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am sorry if this was a spam. Are you sure = about=20 it?  I was under the impression that this was a fact and that is = why I=20 forwarded  the original post  from the pH.history group. =
Anna
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 rikb2@aol.com
To: thelema93-l@egroups.com ; blackvault@topica.com ; skywatch_discussion@egroups.com ; kroniatalk@telelists.com ; whirlpower@egroups.com ; energy21@listbot.com ; Entheogens@egroups.com ; the_octopus@egroups.com ; info@shamansgarden.com ; ibogaine@ibogaine.org ; time-space@egroups.com ; time@egroups.com ;=20 mindfire@pacificcoast.net ; astro-forum@egroups.com ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; iufo@topica.com
Sent: Thursday, September 21, = 2000 11:43=20 PM
Subject: Re: [t93] Fw: No on = Bill=20 602P


3DeGroups My=20 Groups | thelema93-l = Main=20 Page | Start a new=20 group!=20

Sorry for the crosspost, but I've seen this one too many times = to=20 continue
putting up with it. What an odd collection of groups to = spam with=20 this.

93 93/93
RIKB
____________________
I have = attached an=20 excerpt from an article on this urban legend I recently
read on = the=20 Internet TOURBUS. 

By the way, if you do not yet = subscribe to=20 TOURBUS, I strongly
recommend that you do.  TOURBUS is a = free,=20 semi-weekly Internet
newsletter that tells you about the latest = Internet=20 sites and helps
you debunk the latest Internet urban = legends.  I have=20 included
TOURBUS subscription information at the bottom of this=20 = message.

---------------------------------------------------------= --
Urban=20 Legend Update: Postage Surcharge Story -- 1 June=20 = 1999
-----------------------------------------------------------
About=20 a month ago, a story circulated around the Net warning Canadians=20
that

     ... Bill 602P will permit the = Federal=20 Govt to charge a 5 cent
     surcharge on = every email=20 delivered, by billing Internet Service
     = Providers=20 at source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by=20
     the ISP.  Toronto lawyer Richard = Stepp QC is=20 working to prevent
     this legislation from = becoming=20 law.

     The Canada Post Corporation is = claiming=20 that lost revenue due to
     the = proliferation of=20 email is costing nearly $23,000,000 in
     = revenue=20 per year ...

The letter goes on to warn=20 that

     ... One back-bencher, Liberal = Tony=20 Schnell (NB) has even
     suggested a "twenty = to=20 forty dollar per month surcharge on all
     = Internet=20 service" above and beyond the government's proposed=20
     email charges ...

Fortunately, the = letter=20 is yet another Internet hoax.  According to
a recent column = in the=20 Toronto Sun,

     Don't rush to the = keyboards and=20 phones.  The lawyer does not
     = exist. =20 The law firm whose name appears on the alert does not=20
     exist.  There is no MP named = Schnell. =20 Forget Bill 602P; that's
     not even the way = bills=20 are numbered.

     [quote shamelessly = stolen from=20 David Emery's "Email Tax for
     Canada" = column,=20 which we will talk about in a moment ... maybe.]

Proving the = old saying=20 "everything old is new again," here is a recent
story that has = been=20 floating around the Net.  See if you notice any =
similarities. =20 The story says that

     Bill 602P will = permit the=20 [US] Federal Govt to charge a 5 cent
     = surcharge on=20 every email delivered, by billing Internet Service=20
     Providers at source.  The consumer = would=20 then be billed in turn
     by the ISP. =20 Washington D.C. lawyer Richard Stepp is working =
    =20 without pay to prevent this legislation from becoming law.=20

     The U.S. Postal Service is claiming = that lost=20 revenue due to the
     proliferation of email = is=20 costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue
     = per=20 year.

The letter goes on to warn = that

    =20 One congressman, Tony Schnell (r) has even suggested a "twenty to=20
     forty dollar per month surcharge on all = Internet=20 service" above
     and beyond the = government's=20 proposed email charges

Deja vu?  Yep.  The message = floating=20 around the Net right now is
almost word for word the same message = that=20 floated around Canada in
May.  [I particularly enjoyed the = fact that=20 Mr. Schnell was able to
switch from being a Canadian Liberal to = being an=20 American Republican
in less than a month -- ain't technology=20 wonderful?!]

For the record, both stories are hoaxes.  = Neither=20 Canada nor the US is
considering an email surcharge.  Neither = Canada=20 nor the US has a
lawmaker named "Tony Schnell" [that's what = happens when=20 you jump
parties!].  Neither Canada nor the US has a bill = 602P (in=20 Canada,
bills from the Senate begin with the letter S and bills = from the=20
Commons begin with the letter C; in the US, bills from the Senate=20
begin with the letter S and bills from the House begin with the = letter=20
H).  Finally, neither Toronto nor Washington has a lawyer = named=20
Richard Stepp.

... and, no, Australia isn't considering an = email=20 surcharge either. :P

For more information about this story, = visit David=20 Emery's new site at

     http://urbanlegends.about.com/

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D[= =20 Tourbus Rider Information = ]=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
  = ; The Internet=20 Tourbus - U.S. Library of Congress ISSN = #1094-2238
    =20 Copyright 1995-2000, Rankin & Crispen - All rights=20 = reserved
          &= nbsp;=20 Archives on the Web at http://www.TOURBUS.com/

Join:= Send=20 SUBSCRIBE TOURBUS Your Name to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Leave: = Send=20 SIGNOFF TOURBUS to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

    = Send=20 this copy to 3 friends and tell them to hop on the=20 = Bus!
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 = to:
thelema93-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com


------=_NextPart_000_0159_01C02433.57150020-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 22 05:24:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA26325; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 05:23:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 05:23:22 -0700 Message-ID: <065d01c0248f$a323f5a0$9e80a618@jet> From: "Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr" To: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , References: <71.6cc91c8.26fc599a@aol.com> <015e01c0246e$09e6d860$6f12fea9@oemcomputer> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 07:21:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"aDS7s3.0.AR6.wyqov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16853 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Re: [t93] Fw: No on Bill 602P Yes, it's a hoax. In fact, it's an old hoax that ranks up there with modem taxes back in the BBS days. There are taxes that have been proposed for usage on the Internet here in the US - mainly for e-commerce. However - if you are unconvinced of that, follow the typical advice as if it were true - call your senator or congressman, and ask about it :-) The information presented below about it being an Urban Legend is indeed factual. Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr Author, Boulder Panic!, Boulder Panic! 2 President, MidnightRyder.Com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anna M*" To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 3:20 AM Subject: [FG]: Re: [t93] Fw: No on Bill 602P > I am sorry if this was a spam. Are you sure about it? I was under the > impression that this was a fact and that is why I forwarded the original > post from the pH.history group. > Anna > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: rikb2@aol.com > To: thelema93-l@egroups.com ; blackvault@topica.com ; > skywatch_discussion@egroups.com ; kroniatalk@telelists.com ; > whirlpower@egroups.com ; energy21@listbot.com ; Entheogens@egroups.com ; > the_octopus@egroups.com ; info@shamansgarden.com ; ibogaine@ibogaine.org ; > time-space@egroups.com ; time@egroups.com ; mindfire@pacificcoast.net ; > astro-forum@egroups.com ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; iufo@topica.com > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:43 PM > Subject: Re: [t93] Fw: No on Bill 602P > > > > My Groups | thelema93-l Main Page | Start a new group! > > > Sorry for the crosspost, but I've seen this one too many times to continue > putting up with it. What an odd collection of groups to spam with this. > > 93 93/93 > RIKB > ____________________ > I have attached an excerpt from an article on this urban legend I recently > read on the Internet TOURBUS. > > By the way, if you do not yet subscribe to TOURBUS, I strongly > recommend that you do. TOURBUS is a free, semi-weekly Internet > newsletter that tells you about the latest Internet sites and helps > you debunk the latest Internet urban legends. I have included > TOURBUS subscription information at the bottom of this message. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Urban Legend Update: Postage Surcharge Story -- 1 June 1999 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > About a month ago, a story circulated around the Net warning Canadians > that > > ... Bill 602P will permit the Federal Govt to charge a 5 cent > surcharge on every email delivered, by billing Internet Service > Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by > the ISP. Toronto lawyer Richard Stepp QC is working to prevent > this legislation from becoming law. > > The Canada Post Corporation is claiming that lost revenue due to > the proliferation of email is costing nearly $23,000,000 in > revenue per year ... > > The letter goes on to warn that > > ... One back-bencher, Liberal Tony Schnell (NB) has even > suggested a "twenty to forty dollar per month surcharge on all > Internet service" above and beyond the government's proposed > email charges ... > > Fortunately, the letter is yet another Internet hoax. According to > a recent column in the Toronto Sun, > > Don't rush to the keyboards and phones. The lawyer does not > exist. The law firm whose name appears on the alert does not > exist. There is no MP named Schnell. Forget Bill 602P; that's > not even the way bills are numbered. > > [quote shamelessly stolen from David Emery's "Email Tax for > Canada" column, which we will talk about in a moment ... maybe.] > > Proving the old saying "everything old is new again," here is a recent > story that has been floating around the Net. See if you notice any > similarities. The story says that > > Bill 602P will permit the [US] Federal Govt to charge a 5 cent > surcharge on every email delivered, by billing Internet Service > Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed in turn > by the ISP. Washington D.C. lawyer Richard Stepp is working > without pay to prevent this legislation from becoming law. > > The U.S. Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue due to the > proliferation of email is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue > per year. > > The letter goes on to warn that > > One congressman, Tony Schnell (r) has even suggested a "twenty to > forty dollar per month surcharge on all Internet service" above > and beyond the government's proposed email charges > > Deja vu? Yep. The message floating around the Net right now is > almost word for word the same message that floated around Canada in > May. [I particularly enjoyed the fact that Mr. Schnell was able to > switch from being a Canadian Liberal to being an American Republican > in less than a month -- ain't technology wonderful?!] > > For the record, both stories are hoaxes. Neither Canada nor the US is > considering an email surcharge. Neither Canada nor the US has a > lawmaker named "Tony Schnell" [that's what happens when you jump > parties!]. Neither Canada nor the US has a bill 602P (in Canada, > bills from the Senate begin with the letter S and bills from the > Commons begin with the letter C; in the US, bills from the Senate > begin with the letter S and bills from the House begin with the letter > H). Finally, neither Toronto nor Washington has a lawyer named > Richard Stepp. > > ... and, no, Australia isn't considering an email surcharge either. :P > > For more information about this story, visit David Emery's new site at > > http://urbanlegends.about.com/ > > =====================[ Tourbus Rider Information ]=================== > The Internet Tourbus - U.S. Library of Congress ISSN #1094-2238 > Copyright 1995-2000, Rankin & Crispen - All rights reserved > Archives on the Web at http://www.TOURBUS.com/ > > Join: Send SUBSCRIBE TOURBUS Your Name to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > Leave: Send SIGNOFF TOURBUS to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > > Send this copy to 3 friends and tell them to hop on the Bus! > ===================================================================== > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > thelema93-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 22 06:31:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA12841; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 06:28:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 06:28:51 -0700 Message-ID: <39CB5E1F.264522AF@icx.net> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:26:55 -0400 From: Stephen Brummitt Organization: D E V X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: thelema93-l@egroups.com, blackvault@topica.com, skywatch_discussion@egroups.com, kroniatalk@telelists.com, whirlpower@egroups.com, energy21@listbot.com, Entheogens@egroups.com, the_octopus@egroups.com, info@shamansgarden.com, ibogaine@ibogaine.org, time-space@egroups.com, time@egroups.com, mindfire@pacificcoast.net, astro-forum@egroups.com, iufo@topica.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [t93] Fw: No on Bill 602P References: <71.6cc91c8.26fc599a@aol.com> <015e01c0246e$09e6d860$6f12fea9@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hHJlQ2.0.U83.Jwrov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16854 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Here are a few informative web sites about this sort of thing. Pass them along to the rest of the world. http://HoaxBusters.ciac.org/ http://www.usps.com/news/email.htm http://www0.delphi.com/navnet/legends/govlegends.html http://www0.delphi.com/navnet/legends/legends.html SWB ________________________________________________ > Anna M* wrote: > > I am sorry if this was a spam. Are you sure about it? I was under the > impression that this was a fact and that is why I forwarded the > original post from the pH.history group. > Anna > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: rikb2@aol.com > To: thelema93-l@egroups.com ; blackvault@topica.com ; > skywatch_discussion@egroups.com ; kroniatalk@telelists.com ; > whirlpower@egroups.com ; energy21@listbot.com ; > Entheogens@egroups.com ; the_octopus@egroups.com ; > info@shamansgarden.com ; ibogaine@ibogaine.org ; > time-space@egroups.com ; time@egroups.com ; > mindfire@pacificcoast.net ; astro-forum@egroups.com ; > freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; iufo@topica.com > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:43 PM > Subject: Re: [t93] Fw: No on Bill 602P > > [eGroups] My Groups | thelema93-l Main Page | Start a new > group! > > Sorry for the crosspost, but I've seen this one too many > times to continue > putting up with it. What an odd collection of groups to spam > with this. > > 93 93/93 > RIKB > ____________________ > I have attached an excerpt from an article on this urban > legend I recently > read on the Internet TOURBUS. > > By the way, if you do not yet subscribe to TOURBUS, I > strongly > recommend that you do. TOURBUS is a free, semi-weekly > Internet > newsletter that tells you about the latest Internet sites > and helps > you debunk the latest Internet urban legends. I have > included > TOURBUS subscription information at the bottom of this > message. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Urban Legend Update: Postage Surcharge Story -- 1 June 1999 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > About a month ago, a story circulated around the Net warning > Canadians > that > > ... Bill 602P will permit the Federal Govt to charge a > 5 cent > surcharge on every email delivered, by billing Internet > Service > Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed > in turn by > the ISP. Toronto lawyer Richard Stepp QC is working to > prevent > this legislation from becoming law. > > The Canada Post Corporation is claiming that lost > revenue due to > the proliferation of email is costing nearly > $23,000,000 in > revenue per year ... > > The letter goes on to warn that > > ... One back-bencher, Liberal Tony Schnell (NB) has > even > suggested a "twenty to forty dollar per month surcharge > on all > Internet service" above and beyond the government's > proposed > email charges ... > > Fortunately, the letter is yet another Internet hoax. > According to > a recent column in the Toronto Sun, > > Don't rush to the keyboards and phones. The lawyer > does not > exist. The law firm whose name appears on the alert > does not > exist. There is no MP named Schnell. Forget Bill > 602P; that's > not even the way bills are numbered. > > [quote shamelessly stolen from David Emery's "Email Tax > for > Canada" column, which we will talk about in a moment > ... maybe.] > > Proving the old saying "everything old is new again," here > is a recent > story that has been floating around the Net. See if you > notice any > similarities. The story says that > > Bill 602P will permit the [US] Federal Govt to charge a > 5 cent > surcharge on every email delivered, by billing Internet > Service > Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed > in turn > by the ISP. Washington D.C. lawyer Richard Stepp is > working > without pay to prevent this legislation from becoming > law. > > The U.S. Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue > due to the > proliferation of email is costing nearly $230,000,000 > in revenue > per year. > > The letter goes on to warn that > > One congressman, Tony Schnell (r) has even suggested a > "twenty to > forty dollar per month surcharge on all Internet > service" above > and beyond the government's proposed email charges > > Deja vu? Yep. The message floating around the Net right > now is > almost word for word the same message that floated around > Canada in > May. [I particularly enjoyed the fact that Mr. Schnell was > able to > switch from being a Canadian Liberal to being an American > Republican > in less than a month -- ain't technology wonderful?!] > > For the record, both stories are hoaxes. Neither Canada nor > the US is > considering an email surcharge. Neither Canada nor the US > has a > lawmaker named "Tony Schnell" [that's what happens when you > jump > parties!]. Neither Canada nor the US has a bill 602P (in > Canada, > bills from the Senate begin with the letter S and bills from > the > Commons begin with the letter C; in the US, bills from the > Senate > begin with the letter S and bills from the House begin with > the letter > H). Finally, neither Toronto nor Washington has a lawyer > named > Richard Stepp. > > ... and, no, Australia isn't considering an email surcharge > either. :P > > For more information about this story, visit David Emery's > new site at > > http://urbanlegends.about.com/ > > =====================[ Tourbus Rider Information > ]=================== > The Internet Tourbus - U.S. Library of Congress ISSN > #1094-2238 > Copyright 1995-2000, Rankin & Crispen - All rights > reserved > Archives on the Web at http://www.TOURBUS.com/ > > Join: Send SUBSCRIBE TOURBUS Your Name to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > Leave: Send SIGNOFF TOURBUS to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > > Send this copy to 3 friends and tell them to hop on the > Bus! > ===================================================================== > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > thelema93-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 22 09:05:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08016; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:04:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:04:30 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.250] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: [Entheogens] Re: [FG]: Fw: No on Bill 602P=E-mailCharge-IMPORTANT READ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:03:51 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Sep 2000 16:03:51.0774 (UTC) FILETIME=[B35167E0:01C024AE] Resent-Message-ID: <"ASUxU1.0.5z1.DCuov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16855 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Yes Anna M* I'm afraid so... Whistle blowing is a good thing, but never just post with out checking your facts... Timothy... >From: "Anna M*" >Are you sure that is a hoax? If so, I am sorry for forwarding this post. >Anna _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 22 14:15:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA23495; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:14:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:14:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:14:47 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Fw: No on Bill 602P=E-mailCharge-IMPORTANT READ In-Reply-To: <014901c02464$3da30fc0$6f12fea9@oemcomputer> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"1QvR9.0.0l5.9lyov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16856 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Anna M* wrote: > Are you sure that is a hoax? If so, I am sorry for forwarding this post. If a message says "WARN ALL YOUR FRIENDS!!!" or anything similar, then it is an email virus which spreads by humans. Don't spread email viruses even if their message is true. How can you tell if it's also a hoax? Well, a genuine warning will contain the email address of the originator, and will give the URLs of websites for verification and further information. At the very least, the creators would give the URL of the bill on the .gov pages so people could read the actual text. Real warnings want to spread information, not hide it. On the other hand, hoaxers never include anything but the message itself. A hoaxed website would be exposed quickly. A hoaxed email message could spread for years. So, if a message convinces you to forward it to others, all your alarm bells should go off. If that message doesn't supply proof in the form of web references and email addresses, then it is a hoax. Throw it away. Even better, contact whoever sent it to you and tell them that they've fallen for a hoax! ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 22 15:04:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10027; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:04:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:04:04 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:03:18 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Resent-Message-ID: <"E9Vl33.0.WS2.KTzov"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16857 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Hello all, Since I don't yet have an ultrasonic cleaner I thought I would do a few quick, easy , and inexpensive tests. My theory was that if there were tribo-effects from ultrasonic waves simple vigorous shaking might cause some effects also. So--- I took small (about 40 gram) samples of salt, sugar, and comet (cleaner) and weighed them in a small bottle. Then I shook the ***** out of them as long as my arms held out. Then I weighed them again -- actually I repeated that process a number of times. To make a long story shorter, no sample showed any weight change larger than a mg or so, which is about the scale's accuracy limit. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 22 18:44:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA16738; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:44:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:44:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:44:08 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"q8n0-1.0.O54.lh0pv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16858 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The sensitivity of scales can be magnified by using a secondary balance (homebuilt and simple) like John Schnurer has been advising. What's nice about that method too is that you can still get the milligram sensitivity but with much larger masses - and when hunting percentage changes, that helps a lot. On the balance I set up a while back to test the superconductor weight changes (got a null result) I had a large glass rod test mass weighing quite a bit - I forget what, but it was many grams, a tiny puff of lint placed on it would easily tip a scale with 1/100th gram (10 milligram) scale divisions. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI >Hello all, > Since I don't yet have an ultrasonic cleaner I thought I would do a few >quick, easy , and inexpensive tests. My theory was that if there were >tribo-effects from ultrasonic waves simple vigorous shaking might cause some >effects also. > So--- I took small (about 40 gram) samples of salt, sugar, and comet >(cleaner) and weighed them in a small bottle. Then I shook the ***** out of >them as long as my arms held out. Then I weighed them again -- actually I >repeated that process a number of times. To make a long story shorter, no >sample showed any weight change larger than a mg or so, which is about the >scale's accuracy limit. > > > Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 22 18:49:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA19592; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000801c02500$9ed28b80$5c3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:50:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"MG8eT3.0.pn4.Bl0pv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16859 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Ken; Thanks for sharing, and thanks for attempting a replication. I have been working with a speaker connected to an audio amp, to vibrate test ampoules at lower frequency. From what I saw today, it looks like even vigorous shaking at say 100 to 120 Hz only caused about 4 mg weight change on the test bottle with bentonite powder (best material so far). 1/2 hour at the ultrasonic tank has been producing between 30 and 35 mg loss consistently. My best guess is that the Crest cleaner is running at about 35 kHz. On another note, while I have not tried sugar or Drano, salt gave very poor results even with the ultrasonic. If you want to try it again, I would suggest that you pulverize some chalk. It looks like I am starting to see a pattern emerge, with generally heavier molecular weight materials giving much better results than light weights. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 6:03 PM Subject: [FG]: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests > Hello all, > Since I don't yet have an ultrasonic cleaner I thought I would do a few > quick, easy , and inexpensive tests. My theory was that if there were > tribo-effects from ultrasonic waves simple vigorous shaking might cause some > effects also. > So--- I took small (about 40 gram) samples of salt, sugar, and comet > (cleaner) and weighed them in a small bottle. Then I shook the ***** out of > them as long as my arms held out. Then I weighed them again -- actually I > repeated that process a number of times. To make a long story shorter, no > sample showed any weight change larger than a mg or so, which is about the > scale's accuracy limit. > > > Ken > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 22 20:58:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA16777; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:58:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:58:11 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <91.e31ddf.26fd842a@aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:57:30 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Resent-Message-ID: <"5q5j11.0.264.If2pv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16860 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 9/22/00 6:48:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, reit@ezworks.net writes: > Thanks for sharing, and thanks for attempting a replication. I have been > working with a speaker connected to an audio amp, to vibrate test ampoules > at lower frequency. From what I saw today, it looks like even vigorous > shaking at say 100 to 120 Hz only caused about 4 mg weight change on the > test bottle with bentonite powder (best material so far). 1/2 hour at the > ultrasonic tank has been producing between 30 and 35 mg loss consistently. > My best guess is that the Crest cleaner is running at about 35 kHz. > On another note, while I have not tried sugar or Drano, salt gave very > poor results even with the ultrasonic. If you want to try it again, I would > suggest that you pulverize some chalk. It looks like I am starting to see a > pattern emerge, with generally heavier molecular weight materials giving > much better results than light weights. Nick, Chalk should be easy to try. I'll pick up some tomorrow. How heavy are your samples on which you are seeing a 30 or 35 milligram weight loss? I'm wondering, as Rick implied, if I should use bigger samples. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 22 21:34:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA03220; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005501c02517$d04f5730$c57b3b8e@robone> From: "Rob Polley" To: References: <000801c02500$9ed28b80$5c3dee3f@default> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:36:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"egORG1.0.3o.QA3pv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16861 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Hi Nick, I have been following your postings with great interest. I am wondering if there is any change in the volume of the materials you finding there effect in. I vaguely remember reading something years ago about a crystalline block that was charged somehow with the result that it expanded to about twice normal size and levitated. I have been trying to remember where I read about it but no luck so far. The thought crosses my mind that if there was a volumetric expansion there could be a factor like buoyancy in some medium that relates to gravitational effect involved. It might be interesting to use a graduated test tube, or even just mark the outside of a standard test tube with something that will survive the ultrasonic bath, and see if you can detest any volumetric changes. Great work, thanks for keeping us posted, Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Reiter" To: Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 7:50 PM Subject: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests > Ken; > > Thanks for sharing, and thanks for attempting a replication. I have been > working with a speaker connected to an audio amp, to vibrate test ampoules > at lower frequency. From what I saw today, it looks like even vigorous > shaking at say 100 to 120 Hz only caused about 4 mg weight change on the > test bottle with bentonite powder (best material so far). 1/2 hour at the > ultrasonic tank has been producing between 30 and 35 mg loss consistently. > My best guess is that the Crest cleaner is running at about 35 kHz. > On another note, while I have not tried sugar or Drano, salt gave very > poor results even with the ultrasonic. If you want to try it again, I would > suggest that you pulverize some chalk. It looks like I am starting to see a > pattern emerge, with generally heavier molecular weight materials giving > much better results than light weights. > > > NR > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 6:03 PM > Subject: [FG]: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests > > > > Hello all, > > Since I don't yet have an ultrasonic cleaner I thought I would do a > few > > quick, easy , and inexpensive tests. My theory was that if there were > > tribo-effects from ultrasonic waves simple vigorous shaking might cause > some > > effects also. > > So--- I took small (about 40 gram) samples of salt, sugar, and comet > > (cleaner) and weighed them in a small bottle. Then I shook the ***** out > of > > them as long as my arms held out. Then I weighed them again -- actually > I > > repeated that process a number of times. To make a long story shorter, > no > > sample showed any weight change larger than a mg or so, which is about the > > scale's accuracy limit. > > > > > > Ken > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 23 03:00:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA25973; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:00:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:00:18 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000801c02500$9ed28b80$5c3dee3f@default> References: <000801c02500$9ed28b80$5c3dee3f@default> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 00:00:08 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"iY3Ki2.0.fL6.ny7pv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16862 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nick - Haw many watts did you say your Crest ultrasonic cleaner use? And about how big is the tank? I'm checking eBay... - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 23 03:40:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA29742; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000e01c0254a$fba0c940$1b3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <91.e31ddf.26fd842a@aol.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 06:42:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"bEQY-2.0.dG7.DY8pv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16863 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi; Chalk should do OK, and I even suspect that real talcum powder might be better. Don't know about whether talcum powder is still made with talc. Anyway, the amount I have been using has been usually between 30 and 70 grams. In the case of the bentonite clay powder that has given the best results yet (mol. wt. of about 455!) I used about 40 grams. The bottle I use is a clear plastic (polycarbonate, I think) flat bottom round bottle of about 100ml volume, with a screw on lid with an inner rubber seal. I double seal with a bead of epoxy to assure no appreciable gas exchange with the outside. For ultrasonics, glass containers have given intermittent results, and I think that it is because it doesn't transmit the acoustics into the media as well. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 11:57 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests > Nick, > Chalk should be easy to try. I'll pick up some tomorrow. How heavy are > your samples on which you are seeing a 30 or 35 milligram weight loss? I'm > wondering, as Rick implied, if I should use bigger samples. > > Ken > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 23 03:42:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA00118; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001601c0254b$4143a120$1b3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <000801c02500$9ed28b80$5c3dee3f@default> <005501c02517$d04f5730$c57b3b8e@robone> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 06:44:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"7nFMo.0.aK7.7a8pv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16864 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Re: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Hi; I would say that there is no visible change in the volume or appearance, apart from the fact that the vibrations will sort of compactify the looser materials to the bottom of the bottle somewhat. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Polley" To: Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 12:36 AM Subject: [FG]: Re: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests > Hi Nick, > > I have been following your postings with great interest. I am wondering if > there is any change in the volume of the materials you finding there effect > in. I vaguely remember reading something years ago about a crystalline > block that was charged somehow with the result that it expanded to about > twice normal size and levitated. I have been trying to remember where I read > about it but no luck so far. > > The thought crosses my mind that if there was a volumetric expansion there > could be a factor like buoyancy in some medium that relates to gravitational > effect involved. It might be interesting to use a graduated test tube, or > even just mark the outside of a standard test tube with something that will > survive the ultrasonic bath, and see if you can detest any volumetric > changes. > > Great work, thanks for keeping us posted, > > Rob > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nick Reiter" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 7:50 PM > Subject: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests > > > > Ken; > > > > Thanks for sharing, and thanks for attempting a replication. I have been > > working with a speaker connected to an audio amp, to vibrate test ampoules > > at lower frequency. From what I saw today, it looks like even vigorous > > shaking at say 100 to 120 Hz only caused about 4 mg weight change on the > > test bottle with bentonite powder (best material so far). 1/2 hour at the > > ultrasonic tank has been producing between 30 and 35 mg loss consistently. > > My best guess is that the Crest cleaner is running at about 35 kHz. > > On another note, while I have not tried sugar or Drano, salt gave very > > poor results even with the ultrasonic. If you want to try it again, I > would > > suggest that you pulverize some chalk. It looks like I am starting to see > a > > pattern emerge, with generally heavier molecular weight materials giving > > much better results than light weights. > > > > > > NR > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 6:03 PM > > Subject: [FG]: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests > > > > > > > Hello all, > > > Since I don't yet have an ultrasonic cleaner I thought I would do a > > few > > > quick, easy , and inexpensive tests. My theory was that if there were > > > tribo-effects from ultrasonic waves simple vigorous shaking might cause > > some > > > effects also. > > > So--- I took small (about 40 gram) samples of salt, sugar, and > comet > > > (cleaner) and weighed them in a small bottle. Then I shook the ***** > out > > of > > > them as long as my arms held out. Then I weighed them again -- > actually > > I > > > repeated that process a number of times. To make a long story shorter, > > no > > > sample showed any weight change larger than a mg or so, which is about > the > > > scale's accuracy limit. > > > > > > > > > Ken > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 23 03:46:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA00582; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001c01c0254b$b4b1cce0$1b3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <000801c02500$9ed28b80$5c3dee3f@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 06:47:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"vjVZI2.0.-8.6d8pv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16865 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, Rick; I still haven't found the manual for the cleaner, but it is a Crest model 4HT-710-3. I have a hunch it is about 200 watts at the output, is rated for a draw of 4 amps at 110V, and the tank looks like it would hold about a gallon to gallon and a quarter. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Monteverde" To: Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 6:00 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests > Nick - > > Haw many watts did you say your Crest ultrasonic cleaner use? And > about how big is the tank? I'm checking eBay... > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 23 07:11:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA07342; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 07:11:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 07:11:02 -0700 Message-ID: <39CCB89F.BC6E8782@harti.com> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 16:05:19 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3Kim02.0.Zo1.sdBpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16866 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: TOMI Hi All, I just received a TOMI linear magnet motor AVI video from Bob Paddock, that I had to convert to ASF to be able to view without an MMX PC. Now I have uploaded it to my new site. You can find it here: http://overunity.terrashare.com/tomi/index.htm It shows a magnet runner going through 2 ramps and it is simular to the SMOT, but the runner here is a permanent magnet, not a steel ball. The problem with this is, that it might have to be pushed to the intro of the track and that this is some kind of spring action. But if you put it into the track from above this works pretty good. I also experimented a few years back with such a system and I could it get better to run, when I introduced angle steel metal pieces at the stator tracks, so I created something simular as the "blue hole" as in the SMOT design. It works much better this way, if you use steel cores attached to the stator track input and output to asymmetrical guide the flux away from the roller magnet ! Enjoy the movie ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 23 07:25:41 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA11791; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 07:25:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 07:25:10 -0700 Message-Id: <200009231424.BAA14780@turbo.turboweb.net.au> X-Mailer: Eudora Pro 1.1 for Newton Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 17:46:00 +1000 To: From: Allan Alderson Resent-Message-ID: <"hKgGq3.0.2u2.6rBpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16867 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: If I use an electret If I use an electret as a dielectric, is there a particular (electrical) orientation in which it will break-down easier? Know any good URL of dielectric/electret stress? - Allan. ---- ---- ---- ---- Please reply with a 'plain text' message. adsaa@turboweb.net.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 23 08:37:32 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA28197; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 08:36:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 08:36:47 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.181] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 08:36:13 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2000 15:36:13.0952 (UTC) FILETIME=[01979800:01C02574] Resent-Message-ID: <"m0QjR.0.Mu6.EuCpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16868 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Try: http://www.crest.thomasregister.com/olc/crest/tanks.htm I have not seen the manual that you are seeking but I'm not even sure if this is the right equment... Timothy... >From: "Nick Reiter" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: >Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests >Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 06:47:42 -0400 > >Hi, Rick; > >I still haven't found the manual for the cleaner, but it is a Crest model >4HT-710-3. I have a hunch it is about 200 watts at the output, is rated >for >a draw of 4 amps at 110V, and the tank looks like it would hold about a >gallon to gallon and a quarter. > >NR _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 23 09:37:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA13840; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 09:37:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 09:37:12 -0700 Message-ID: <39CCDAEB.BCE4D04E@harti.com> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 18:31:39 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy , Newman-L Mailing List , "ou-builders@egroups.com" , "jlnlabs@egroups.com" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kBGOV2.0.1O3.umDpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16869 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: TOMI and Finsrud videos online ! Hi All, I just converted an older video from Svein Utne to ASF format and also scaled it up to 320x240 of the Finsrud perpetual motion machine from Norway. Unfortunately it was just 5 frames/sec, so it stayed a bit jerky... Here it is: http://overunity.terrashare.com/finsrud/index.htm Also: I just received a TOMI linear magnet motor AVI video from Bob Paddock, that I had to convert to ASF to be able to view without an MMX PC. Now I have uploaded it to my new site. You can find it here: http://overunity.terrashare.com/tomi/index.htm It shows a magnet runner going through 2 ramps and it is simular to the SMOT, but the runner here is a permanent magnet, not a steel ball. The problem with this is, that it might have to be pushed to the intro of the track and that this is some kind of spring action. But if you put it into the track from above this works pretty good. I also experimented a few years back with such a system and I could it get better to run, when I introduced angle steel metal pieces at the stator tracks, so I created something simular as the "blue hole" as in the SMOT design. It works much better this way, if you use steel cores attached to the stator track input and output to asymmetrical guide the flux away from the roller magnet ! Enjoy the movie ! -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 23 10:35:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA31103; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 10:34:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 10:34:54 -0700 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 13:34:47 -0400 Message-Id: <200009231734.NAA11161@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Resent-Message-ID: <"4ody22.0.ub7.zcEpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16870 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nick writes: > For ultrasonics, glass containers have given intermittent results, and I >think that it is because it doesn't transmit the acoustics into the media as >well. > >NR Hi Nick, Intuitively, I would have to question this interpretation, given that polycarbonate is used as bullet proof glass, is quite flexible compared to glass, and has such great shock (and sound) absorbtion characteristics. I would think that the speed of sound through polycarbonate would be slower as well, just as I am thinking that it is a function of the stiffness of the material, and perhaps I could be wrong. Perhaps the speed of sound is more a function of the nature of the molecular bonds, which would be far fewer in number for the same area in a more complex molecule like polycarbonate. Perhaps the sound is simply more well or more evenly distributed throughout the container material due to the bond nature. Perhaps the container is acrylic or some other clear plastic material, or perhaps the working theory needs to be expanded to include the material of the container as one of the more important variables. I forget if you've mentioned this before, but what does TT Brown say that he used? Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 23 13:44:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27520; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 13:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 13:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001701c0259f$53d6fcc0$4e3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <200009231734.NAA11161@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 16:46:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"bzg772.0.vj6.OOHpv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16871 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael T Huffman" To: Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests > Hi Nick, > > Intuitively, I would have to question this interpretation, given that > polycarbonate is used as bullet proof glass, is quite flexible compared to > glass, and has such great shock (and sound) absorbtion characteristics. I > would think that the speed of sound through polycarbonate would be slower as > well, just as I am thinking that it is a function of the stiffness of the > material, and perhaps I could be wrong. Perhaps the speed of sound is more > a function of the nature of the molecular bonds, which would be far fewer in > number for the same area in a more complex molecule like polycarbonate. > Perhaps the sound is simply more well or more evenly distributed throughout > the container material due to the bond nature. Perhaps the container is > acrylic or some other clear plastic material, or perhaps the working theory > needs to be expanded to include the material of the container as one of the > more important variables. I forget if you've mentioned this before, but > what does TT Brown say that he used? > > Knuke *********** I may be wrong on the plastic. It could be very clear polyethylene, though I thought it was polycarbonate due to it's stiffness. The effect IS showing with pyrex vessels; I was tinkering with a 50 ml volumetric flask with a PZT epoxied to the bottom, and got respectable results with bentonite powder. It just seems that the glass containers don't do as well when immersed in the ultrasonic tank. Brown recommended either ceramic or glass vessels I believe, though his experiments tended toward the brute force tumbling and crushing methods. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 23 14:12:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA18576; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 14:12:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 14:12:05 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <32.a781e2a.26fe767c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:11:24 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Resent-Message-ID: <"sU8LR.0.4Y4.boHpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16872 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hello all, I ran a few more simple tests: on talc and crushed chalk. Again, they were placed in a hard plastic container, weighed, shaken vigorously for several minutes, and then reweighed. For talc I used baby powder, which is talc and fragrance. For talc the results were clearly negative -- exactly the same weight to the milligram. For crushed chalk, however, in three runs there was a 2-5 milligram weight loss that returned after a few minutes (to the milligram)-- out of a total weight of 35.214 grams including the container. I certainly wouldn't claim this result is real without repeating the test several more times (which I will do). But it is interesting at this point. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 23 14:32:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA25355; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 14:32:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 14:32:17 -0700 Message-ID: <001801c025a4$9404f130$c57b3b8e@robone> From: "Rob Polley" To: References: <32.a781e2a.26fe767c@aol.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 15:23:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"64Mhh3.0.3C6.W5Ipv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16873 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I was told a couple of years ago that the primary ingredient of baby powder is now corn starch not talc because there is some question of talc being potentially carcinogenic. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests > Hello all, > I ran a few more simple tests: on talc and crushed chalk. Again, they > were placed in a hard plastic container, weighed, shaken vigorously for > several minutes, and then reweighed. For talc I used baby powder, which is > talc and fragrance. > For talc the results were clearly negative -- exactly the same weight to > the milligram. For crushed chalk, however, in three runs there was a 2-5 > milligram weight loss that returned after a few minutes (to the milligram)-- > out of a total weight of 35.214 grams including the container. I certainly > wouldn't claim this result is real without repeating the test several more > times (which I will do). But it is interesting at this point. > > > Ken > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 23 18:03:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA23289; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 18:03:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 18:03:32 -0700 Message-ID: <39CD5282.35984D86@enter.net> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 21:01:54 -0400 From: David Rosignoli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <200009231734.NAA11161@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <001701c0259f$53d6fcc0$4e3dee3f@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Qy5553.0.fh5.aBLpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16874 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Let me just say that I had someone (Charles Nightingale) repeat the "shake and weigh" test that has been described here. He used a glass volumetric flask with a glass stopper and a flat bottom. Pascalite powder was placed inside the flask. Pascalite is Bentonite plus "who knows what". It is used as a sort of drinking medicinal supplement that is added to water. Anyway, the flask was placed inside a water bath that was filled with tap water. The flask was dense enough that is sat on the bottom of the tank. The water level was filled to above the level of the bentonite inside the flask. The entire tank was vibrated ultrasonically for 30 minutes on a timer. A Cole-Palmer ultrasonic cleaner was used. An electronic scale (Psi-Tech brand ? - I'm not sure), which could resolve down to 1mg was used. The weight measurements were performed several times. It was noted that the electronic scale reading could fluctuate on the low end (mg's). This may have been due to air currents. The empty flask weight was 78.300 to 78.308 grams. Before treatment with sound, the flask plus the Bentonite weighed 140.219 to 140.222g. So, about 62g of Bentonite was present inside the flask. After the sound treatment, the weight of the flask w/Bentonite was 140.221 to 140.226g. So, there was no significant weight change within the error of the measurements. BTW, after the tank was vibrated, the flask was wiped clean of the water, and then measured. An interesting observation was made, though. When vibrated, the operator could see the grains of the Bentonite moving in a circle together inside the flask, even though the flask itself was rigid. Curious effect. > > Intuitively, I would have to question this interpretation, given that > > polycarbonate is used as bullet proof glass, is quite flexible compared to > > glass, and has such great shock (and sound) absorbtion characteristics. I > > would think that the speed of sound through polycarbonate would be slower > as > > well, just as I am thinking that it is a function of the stiffness of the > > material, and perhaps I could be wrong. Perhaps the speed of sound is > more > > a function of the nature of the molecular bonds, which would be far fewer > in > > number for the same area in a more complex molecule like polycarbonate. > > Perhaps the sound is simply more well or more evenly distributed > throughout > > the container material due to the bond nature. Perhaps the container is > > acrylic or some other clear plastic material, or perhaps the working > theory > > needs to be expanded to include the material of the container as one of > the > > more important variables. I forget if you've mentioned this before, but > > what does TT Brown say that he used? > > > > Knuke > > *********** I may be wrong on the plastic. It could be very clear > polyethylene, though I thought it was polycarbonate due to it's stiffness. > The effect IS showing with pyrex vessels; I was tinkering with a 50 ml > volumetric flask with a PZT epoxied to the bottom, and got respectable > results with bentonite powder. It just seems that the glass containers don't > do as well when immersed in the ultrasonic tank. > > Brown recommended either ceramic or glass vessels I believe, though his > experiments tended toward the brute force tumbling and crushing methods. > > NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 23 20:46:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14137; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 20:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 20:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000501c025da$2b4033e0$1d3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <200009231734.NAA11161@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <001701c0259f$53d6fcc0$4e3dee3f@default> <39CD5282.35984D86@enter.net> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 23:47:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"fm0nS2.0.jS3.NZNpv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16875 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests David; See Below: ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Rosignoli" To: Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 9:01 PM Subject: [FG]: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests > Let me just say that I had someone (Charles Nightingale) repeat the > "shake and weigh" test that has been described here. He used a glass > volumetric flask with a glass stopper and a flat bottom. Pascalite > powder was placed inside the flask. Pascalite is Bentonite plus "who > knows what". It is used as a sort of drinking medicinal supplement that > is added to water. > ******** Is this in the form of a fine powder? If not, it may need to be crushed further. > Anyway, the flask was placed inside a water bath that was filled with > tap water. The flask was dense enough that is sat on the bottom of the > tank. The water level was filled to above the level of the bentonite > inside the flask. The entire tank was vibrated ultrasonically for 30 > minutes on a timer. A Cole-Palmer ultrasonic cleaner was used. ******** Sounds adequate, and procedurally the same. > > An electronic scale (Psi-Tech brand ? - I'm not sure), which could > resolve down to 1mg was used. The weight measurements were performed > several times. It was noted that the electronic scale reading could > fluctuate on the low end (mg's). This may have been due to air currents. > The empty flask weight was 78.300 to 78.308 grams. Before treatment with > sound, the flask plus the Bentonite weighed 140.219 to 140.222g. So, > about 62g of Bentonite was present inside the flask. After the sound > treatment, the weight of the flask w/Bentonite was 140.221 to 140.226g. > So, there was no significant weight change within the error of the > measurements. > ******* I would suggest that if your friend wishes to try again, try a flat bottomed plastic bottle with a sealing lid of some sort. Sounds like the basic tough time I had getting the effect through glass, unless the PZT was right on the flask. > BTW, after the tank was vibrated, the flask was wiped clean of the > water, and then measured. An interesting observation was made, though. > When vibrated, the operator could see the grains of the Bentonite moving > in a circle together inside the flask, even though the flask itself was > rigid. Curious effect. ******** Yes! I saw this as well! Thanks for trying the replication, and for sharing the results. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 23 21:25:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA11463; Sat, 23 Sep 2000 21:25:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 21:25:04 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 00:24:28 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Resent-Message-ID: <"72rhW1.0.0p2.V8Opv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16876 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 9/23/00 2:32:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rpolley@telusplanet.net writes: > > I was told a couple of years ago that the primary ingredient of baby > powder > is now corn starch not talc because there is some question of talc being > potentially carcinogenic. > That's interesting because when I told a friend what I was doing she said exactly the same thing. But this particular baby powder (Walgreens) very clearly says on the container: "ingredients: talc, fragrance". Maybe they haven't used up all their old containers yet? :-) Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 24 01:21:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA18488; Sun, 24 Sep 2000 01:20:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 01:20:56 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001c01c0254b$b4b1cce0$1b3dee3f@default> References: <000801c02500$9ed28b80$5c3dee3f@default> <001c01c0254b$b4b1cce0$1b3dee3f@default> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 22:20:46 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"eRvw-2.0.nW4.ebRpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16877 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nick - Checked eBay, the things are rather expensive, even small ones. Ones like you're using are hundreds of dollars. I'll try to find an appropriate vial and use computer speakers with some high pitched tones to see if I can get some effect. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI At 6:47 AM -0400 9/23/00, Nick Reiter wrote: >Hi, Rick; > >I still haven't found the manual for the cleaner, but it is a Crest model >4HT-710-3. I have a hunch it is about 200 watts at the output, is rated for >a draw of 4 amps at 110V, and the tank looks like it would hold about a >gallon to gallon and a quarter. > >NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 24 03:14:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA02393; Sun, 24 Sep 2000 03:13:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 03:13:34 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <000801c02500$9ed28b80$5c3dee3f@default> <001c01c0254b$b4b1cce0$1b3dee3f@default> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 00:13:24 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"K2EVv2.0.9b.EFTpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16878 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Preliminary positive on a tribo-grav test. Very tentatively, I seem to have some positive results from a quick 'n dirty test driving computer speakers with a 6khz sawtooth tone at a small plastic bottle of dry kaolin (porcelain) powder. Thought I had some bentonite sitting around somewhere but I couldn't find it, so I used the kaolin. Clays in general have been under study for some time by scientists for their many subtle and strange properties. Because I had to take the pan off the scale to hang the bottle from it with a short length of fine s.s. steel wire, the zero point on the balance was way off. So this experiment was just for a qualitive observation to try to see some effect. The bottle is a plastic aspirin bottle with a screw-on polyethylene cap. The cap is the regular and not the childproof type, and it seems to seal fairly well, but I'm sure it's not gas tight. Neither is polyethylene for that matter anyway. There's about 22.5 cc of loose powdered kaolin in it. I set my two small cheapski Labtech powered speakers next to each other pointing at right angles inside an empty plastic cooler. The bottle sits on a plastic block to raise it up right in front of the speaker cones. I ran it for about ten minutes with a 6khz sawtooth signal. The shareware sound program turned itself off after that, so I reset it and let it run again for about ten minutes until it shut off again (got to pay those shareware fees I guess). When I hung the bottle back on the balance, the pointer was a couple of mm lower on the scale indicating a lighter weight hanging at the other end. But after about 15-20 minutes, this difference had gradually disappeared and it was right back to the set point where it had originally been. Hard to believe it's not a sticky pivot or something, but the gradual return to the previous point in that time frame is kind of hard to explain. When I get the time I'll run it with different bottles, materials, and sounds. It was fun to get something positive on the first try, even though I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if it goes away when it's run under stricter controls and conditions. Nick, we both know this need lots more testing to draw it out from under obvious objections and suspected artifacts that could be present in such crude experiments, but thanks and congratulations for bringing this up on the list. This is interesting. It *could* get *very* interesting if the effect holds up. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 24 03:18:13 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA03679; Sun, 24 Sep 2000 03:17:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 03:17:55 -0700 From: Alan Schneider To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:17:22 +1100 Message-ID: References: <000801c02500$9ed28b80$5c3dee3f@default> <001c01c0254b$b4b1cce0$1b3dee3f@default> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id DAA03655 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZBRBm1.0.Ov.JJTpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16879 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Sat, 23 Sep 2000 22:20:46 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Nick - >Checked eBay, the things are rather expensive, even small ones. Ones >like you're using are hundreds of dollars. I'll try to find an >appropriate vial and use computer speakers with some high pitched >tones to see if I can get some effect. Would it be worth trying a reasonably high powered piezo tweeter? Those things will handle low ultrasonics pretty well - up to say, 25-30 khz, anyway... hook it up through an old stereo amp with enough grunt to drive it flat out and either generate the tones with your 'puta or a suitable oscillator. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 24 03:29:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA06290; Sun, 24 Sep 2000 03:29:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 03:29:11 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <000801c02500$9ed28b80$5c3dee3f@default> <001c01c0254b$b4b1cce0$1b3dee3f@default> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 00:29:02 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"pk1cA.0.BY1.tTTpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16880 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Alan - >Would it be worth trying a reasonably high powered piezo tweeter? No doubt it would be worth a try. But if I end up with consistent results from what I have on the shelf already, I'll just go with that for now. I have two real-world (work) projects underway right now and have very little discretionary time left. If I can get measurable and repeatable results, then I'll move to glass and see if I can still see it. Then I'll seal the glass with a torch and try again. If that works it gets harder to explain the effect away. I was very surprised to get a positive result. Usually results that come that easy are just mistakes. We'll see. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 24 09:33:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA13226; Sun, 24 Sep 2000 09:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 09:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 12:31:37 -0400 Message-Id: <200009241631.MAA03919@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Resent-Message-ID: <"I8pRV1.0.XE3.snYpv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16881 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com You guys wrote: >> BTW, after the tank was vibrated, the flask was wiped clean of the >> water, and then measured. An interesting observation was made, though. >> When vibrated, the operator could see the grains of the Bentonite moving >> in a circle together inside the flask, even though the flask itself was >> rigid. Curious effect. > >******** Yes! I saw this as well! > Thanks for trying the replication, and for sharing the results. > >NR I think what you guys are looking at is the physical pattern of the convergence of the sound waves within the container. It is pretty neat, and gives you an idea of what kind of fluid dynamic structures can occur within an oscillating mass of particles that are not all the same size. I have a webpage devoted to Oscillons on my website, which is down at the moment, but I can e-mail it to anyone who is interested. It is just a page of links that can be found by using a search engine, but it might save you a bit of time. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 24 18:26:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA10888; Sun, 24 Sep 2000 18:26:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 18:26:03 -0700 Date: 25 Sep 2000 03:24:00 +0100 From: freenrg_list@sigma.sax.de (Andreas Hecht) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <7mWSae99L$B@sigma.sax.de> In-Reply-To: <001601c0159e$32dc7a60$2d3dee3f@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials X-Mailer: CrossPoint v3.12d R/B9504 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Organization: private site in germany; member of SaxNet e.V. Resent-Message-ID: <"gTIue3.0.1g2.gcgpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16883 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com As Nick wrote: > Apparently, in 1973 or so, Brown attempted to apply for a > patent on a discovery he had made with certain refractory and > rare earth materials. In essence, he had discovered that some > materials, in a granular or nano-particle form, will lose some > of their gravitational mass when excited by vibration and > interparticle friction. They become temporarily lighter, this > change in weight going away with a period of about 30 minutes > or so. The document is called "Method for Producing > Gravitationally Anomalous Materials" and it may be viewed as a > .pdf document at: http://www.soteria.com/brown/info/patents/gr > avity.pdf The following is short piece from N.A.Kozyrevs article "On the possibility of experimental investigation of the properties of time", published in "Time in Science and Philosophy", Prague, 1971: ------------------------------------------------------------------ Among the many tests conducted, we should mention the observations which demonstrated the existence of yet another interesting feature in the qualities of time. It turned out that in the experiments with the vibrations of the mount- ing point of the balances or of the pendulum additional forces of the time pattern which developed do not disappear immediately with the stoppage of the vibrations, but will remain in the system for a considerable period. [...] Considering that they decrease according to the exponential law e^-t/t_0, estimations were made of the time t_0 of their relaxation. It turned out that t_0 does not depend on the mass of the body but on its density p. We obtained the following approx- imate data: for lead S = 11, t_0 = 14 seconds; for aluminum S = 2.7, t_0 = 28 seconds; for wood S = 0.5, t = 70 seconds. In this manner it is possible that t_0 is inversely proportional to the square root of the bodies density. It is curious that the preservation of the additional forces in the system, after a cesstation of the vibrations, can be observed in the balances in the most simple manner. Let us imagine balance scales in which on of the weights is suspended on rubber. Let us take this weight with one hand and, with the pressure of the other hand upon the balance arm, replace the effect of the weight taken from it. We will shake the removed weight for a certain time (around a minute) on the rubber, and then we will place it back upon the scales. The scales will indicate the gradual lightening of this load, in conformity with the above-listed values for t_0 . It is understandable that in this test it is necessary to take measures in order that one's hand does not heat the balance arm of the scales. In place of a hand, the end of the balance arm from which the weight is taken can be held by a mechanical clamp. Sometimes this amazingly simple test can be accomplished quite easily, but there are days when, similarly to certain other tests, it is achieved with difficulty or cannot be accomplished at all. ------------------------------------------------------------------ It seems that the mentioned effect isn't limited to granulates or fine powders. Just my two cents, regards, Andreas -- ************************************************************************ Visit the Borderlands of Science! http://www.borderlands.de/ ************************************************************************ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 24 19:12:23 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22793; Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:11:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:11:52 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:11:13 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <1tctss0lnorkgidhkflcsdli0ad5inr66n@4ax.com> References: <001601c0159e$32dc7a60$2d3dee3f@default> <7mWSae99L$B@sigma.sax.de> In-Reply-To: <7mWSae99L$B@sigma.sax.de> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA22734 Resent-Message-ID: <"k1gy_.0.-Z5.dHhpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16884 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Andreas Hecht's message of 25 Sep 2000 03:24:00 +0100: [snip] >mechanical clamp. Sometimes this amazingly simple test can be >accomplished quite easily, but there are days when, similarly to >certain other tests, it is achieved with difficulty or cannot be >accomplished at all. [snip] It has been suggested that high and low pressure regions are actually caused by variations in the Earth's gravity field, rather than by warm air rising etc. If so, then it might pay to record the barometric pressure when the experiment is done, to see if any correlation turns up. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 24 20:39:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA10856; Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:33:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:33:59 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000924215902.009976a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:09:15 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests In-Reply-To: <200009231734.NAA11161@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"EQiyx.0.Xf2.dUipv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16885 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com The speed of sound is a direct function of the density of the material g/cc The adsorption has to do with the stiffness and the decsity... There is a formula somewhere... but a material with a high density and low stiffness (hardness) more readly converts sound to heat even though the speed of sound through it is faster... like lead At 01:34 PM 9/23/00 -0400, you wrote: >Intuitively, I would have to question this interpretation, given that >polycarbonate is used as bullet proof glass, is quite flexible compared to >glass, and has such great shock (and sound) absorbtion characteristics. I >would think that the speed of sound through polycarbonate would be slower as <> Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 24 20:57:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA18373; Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:54:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:54:25 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.28.94.253] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:53:50 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2000 03:53:50.0914 (UTC) FILETIME=[3735D220:01C026A4] Resent-Message-ID: <"tbbrS3.0.-U4.mnipv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16886 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: Robin van Spaandonk >It has been suggested that high and low pressure regions are actually >caused >by variations in the Earth's gravity field, rather than by warm air rising >etc. If so, then it might pay to record the barometric pressure when the >experiment is done, to see if any correlation turns up. > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk Whoa... Robin... Where did you get this??? This just can't be... gravity affects weight... So *if* the above were true then we could simply measure the weight of a given object and correlate it's changes with changes in barometric pressure... This dose not happen in the real world... So the above is simply can not be true... "Air flow" is my life long study... To understand air flows simply look at a small stream or creak... You see waves, currents, and eddies... This is what causes the pressure changes... Not just heat alone... nor standing waves alone... But definitely not gravity fluctuations... There is some serious study going on, to see if gravity waves left from the big bang, do in fact exist, in the universe... I have not the time tonight to relocate the URL's (sorry)... But to much serious science has been used to find them, to have overlooked this simple possibility... Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 24 21:16:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA24188; Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:16:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:16:15 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.28.94.253] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:15:42 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2000 04:15:42.0712 (UTC) FILETIME=[451A4F80:01C026A7] Resent-Message-ID: <"17foU1.0.rv5.E6jpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16887 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: Charles Ford >The speed of sound is a direct function of the density of the material >g/cc >The adsorption has to do with the stiffness and the decsity... There is a >formula somewhere... but a material with a high density and low stiffness >(hardness) more readly converts sound to heat even though the speed of >sound through it is faster... like lead Hold up a minute Charles... I understand that the speed of sound is relative to the medium through which it passes... And I understand about sound just being energy... And that energy can change form... Sound into heat... But you lost me with this one??? Could you please elaborate??? I'm not arguing, just trying to understand... :) Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 24 21:36:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA30000; Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:36:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:36:05 -0700 From: tv@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: reit@ezworks.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:27:04 -0700 Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Message-ID: <20000924.213723.-349079.1.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-5,7-10,14-15,17-19,22-23,25-29,35-36,39-57 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Resent-Message-ID: <"fA3Jg3.0.WK7.oOjpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16888 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Nick and all, Thomas Townsend Brown assumed that the inertial mass was not effected the same as the gravitational mass, but he apparently did not attempt to test this. Brown also reported that some materials also lost weight or generated a propulsive effect when polarized by a high voltage. What if the inertial mass is also effected ? It would seem that we then have means for a true space drive propulsion system. It would simply be a matter of pushing against a dynamically variable mass when it was most massive and pulling on it when it was least massive. Perhaps this is related to the Woodward Effect see "The Quantum Cavorite Page at: http://www.inetarena.com/~noetic/pls/gravity.html Woodward claims his effect is direct result of relativity effects (E=MC^2) but the effect that Nick is observing seems to be orders of magnitude greater. The energy for 1 milligram mass change = 0.001 grams x 9e16 = 9e13 joules = 90 trillion watt-seconds = 25 million kilowatt-hours = 25 thousand megawatt-hours I don't think Nick's ultrasonic cleaner is that energetic !!! Perhaps the gravitational mass loss in the powders can be stimulated electrically also. Perhaps by pulses like the enigmatic "kineto-baric" effect of the German inventor named R.G. Zinsser who demonstrated a gravity effect in Toronto in 1981, "Mechanical Energy from Anisotropic Gravitational Fields", First International Symposium on Non-Conventional Energy Technology. But first others need to verify the effect with vibrations like Nick. This could be a truly important anomaly discovered by T. T. Brown and ignored until Nick rediscovered it. Tim > As Nick wrote: > > > Apparently, in 1973 or so, Brown attempted to apply for a > > patent on a discovery he had made with certain refractory and > > rare earth materials. In essence, he had discovered that some > > materials, in a granular or nano-particle form, will lose some > > of their gravitational mass when excited by vibration and > > interparticle friction. They become temporarily lighter, this > > change in weight going away with a period of about 30 minutes > > or so. The document is called "Method for Producing > > Gravitationally Anomalous Materials" and it may be viewed as a > > .pdf document at: http://www.soteria.com/brown/info/patents/gr > > avity.pdf From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 04:44:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA01895; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 04:43:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 04:43:12 -0700 Message-ID: <39CF3C33.6BFE2B6B@csrlink.net> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:51:16 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" CC: energy21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WQLX6.0.LT.Gfppv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16889 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: site claims to have plans for sale for converting to h2o power Hi, Did you know that many other countries already use water to run their cars? I didn't! This link will explain it to you; http://www.fuellesspower.com/water.html Check out the whole range of products for SALE on the site......... sigh MJ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 05:52:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA17803; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 05:52:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 05:52:11 -0700 Message-ID: <007801c026ee$c3f41880$2fff08d0@default> From: "Larry Canada" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:46:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"xZ3fO3.0.wL4.xfqpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16890 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Timothy... if I might comment.... The... waves, currents and eddies... of small streams are caused by the materials underneath the stream. Is it possible that air currents are affected in much the same way? Could there be a connection between gravity variation and weather? There is a connection between weather and ground voltage. Changes in ground voltage precede changes in air temperature. As voltage goes up, temperature goes down. Is it possible that the combined measurements of voltage, gravity and magnetic field could be used to forecast air flow? Larry From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 06:15:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA23155; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:14:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:14:55 -0700 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:14:50 -0400 Message-Id: <200009251314.JAA02748@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Resent-Message-ID: <"Wk65i3.0.gf5.E_qpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16891 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com cjford writes: >The speed of sound is a direct function of the density of the material g/cc >The adsorption has to do with the stiffness and the decsity... There is a >formula somewhere... but a material with a high density and low stiffness >(hardness) more readly converts sound to heat even though the speed of >sound through it is faster... like lead Now this is interesting, and it makes sense. I'm also wondering if the residual weight loss isn't due to some kind of refactory sound process that is happening internally to the individual grains of the material, causing the higher density/higher stiffness material to continue to vibrate longer than that of those materials of lower density and stiffness. The soundwaves may be kept inside each of the individual particles of the material the way light is kept in a room full of mirrors, for example, and the energy would not be as easily communciated or radiated or lost to the outside environment. There would be opposing wavefronts crashing into each other within each grain as well, like lightwaves in a maser. This would happen at extremely high frequencies, too. The smaller the grain size, the denser the material, and the stiffer the material, all together should give the best results, no? Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 06:21:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA26173; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:21:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:21:22 -0700 Message-ID: <20000925132049.12840.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:20:49 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"-Nc_S.0.iO6.I5rpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16892 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Mistuned Bipolar Secondaries/666 Machine from the past Mistuned Bipolar Secondaries/666 Machine from the past http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/mistuned.html 13th Page. This page is unusual showing large resonators used in a bipolar fashion to produce discharges between them without toploads, irregardless of the polarities between them. The reasoning behind this possibility is that the series set of primaries is mistuned. This page is made from from July 4th 1994 records. Mpegs of each of these discharges can be found in teslafy files at driveway.com as teslafy member name and gefeveqy password, and also located in the mistuned file. Additionally a nightime discharge of metlica marc's 3k turner from Ohio 9/16/00 event is on the teslafy main page as the 6013 mpeg file, only 1 KB, well worth loading to take a peek. I count 7 long discharges to ground post in probably 10 seconds of arcing. Concerning the past thread on this 666 matter first was was the 19 mistake as somewhat explained on webpage, but now it seems to be ratios of 3 as the correct solution. Here are 2 past files. I think this all can now be successfully concluded as errors, without consideration of further entries, but to bury the past here.. 666 files(containing the error of 19) From: Harvey Norris Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:51:34 In light of the destruction of my laboratory on 3-3-99 I am reopening the 666 file. These are historically contained records from 1994. As a preliminary effort to explain these I am analysing them again and reprinting them on freenrg. The main component of the 666 machine was destroyed in 93 within 48 hours of completion by an unknown party; although I suspected and accused my family nothing came of this. The structure was then reassembled in a different modification according to the following scenario. A single length of wire is commonly wound in a single layer of winds in the secondary of a tesla coil,this design usually dictates 3 times the height vs. diameter geometry of the secondary. A mathematical approximation of the expected inductance is contained in an equation with 3 parameters; A=radius in inch. N=no. of turns B=ht in inch. where L in microhenries= (A)2*(N)2/9A+19B where2=squared function By the above mathematical equation it might not be readily understood that the same length of wire can be coiled in many different geometries, even on a simple cylindrical case such as this; that will provide the SAME inductance. Manipulation of this formula will reveal that if a central coil has an inductance; when the same radius of the coil is expanded 6 fold the corresponding separation between winds of the wire will also expand 6 fold for the same coil of identical length wire to be the same inductance. While this might not seem to have any practical significance the fact that identical standing electrical waves can be produced on different geometries does. On Sept 19th, 1899 Tesla wonders about this kind of interaction and notes that the best interaction between these geometries would be one at 1/4 wavelength interacting with 3/4 wavelength interior coil acting as magnifier. I completely misunderstood this because I had not yet obtained a copy of the Colorado Spring Notes, and when I did it needed to be deciphered. On that special day he noted that this was OBVIOUS.So when I had already built the wrong way it was noted by me and demolished by an unknown party. HDN Determined to continue this story. [FG]: 666 file From: harvey norris Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:32:57 Third harmonics placed back to back in an unusual spatial speculation yeilds a consideration where both even and odd harmonics can combine in a ratio of 6. 6 has a very unusual connotation in magic square formation, where the solutions are not easily found. Some idle speculation for the list, however mathematics have the foundation for much reasoning. The same length of wire can be formed with the same spacing between winds and combine to deliver two different geometric solutions for the same inductance. This is distorted also by Medhurst considerations of H/D ratio. Southern Reconstruction efforts of interest.HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 06:42:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA05107; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:41:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:41:16 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 08:41:12 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"ep4i_2.0.dF1.yNrpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16893 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com OK... The hardness of a material and the density of a material are two different things. If you compare lead to magnesium you will find that lead is very soft and magnesium is very hard. You will also discover that lead is dense and magnesium is rare (rare as in not dense). The speed of sound is faster through lead then it is through magnesium. The speed has nothing to do with the hardness but rather with the density. The hardness and the density both work into a formula together "Acoustical Transmission Efficiency" Lead has a very low efficiency. mostly because it is soft. remember that sound is waves of mechanical movement and a material like lead allows itself to be re shaped easily. Beyond that.... I am an electrical engineer not a metelergest... At 09:15 PM 9/24/00 -0700, you wrote: >>From: Charles Ford >>The speed of sound is a direct function of the density of the material >>g/cc >>The adsorption has to do with the stiffness and the decsity... There is a >>formula somewhere... but a material with a high density and low stiffness >>(hardness) more readly converts sound to heat even though the speed of >>sound through it is faster... like lead > >Hold up a minute Charles... >I understand that the speed of sound is relative to the medium through >which it passes... >And I understand about sound just being energy... And that energy can >change form... Sound into heat... >But you lost me with this one??? >Could you please elaborate??? > >I'm not arguing, just trying to understand... :) > >Timothy... > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 07:15:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA22220; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:15:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:15:02 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000925084417.00953d50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:15:04 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: site claims to have plans for sale for converting to h2o power In-Reply-To: <39CF3C33.6BFE2B6B@csrlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"I5q9j2.0.1R5.ctrpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16894 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Watch it folks... Fact is when you can make something and get filthy stinking rich from the profits you don't sell the plans. When I design things that work I do not sell the plans.... I enter into a manufacturing agreement where I will have residual income for as long as the product continues to sell.... When I design something that does not work I keep the plans and the notes so that I and others can learn form my mistakes.... Although I would dearly love to be able to recover some of my lost engineering costs by say.... Selling a set of plans to any gullable Joe with a few bucks. Does anybody know which country / s are already using water for fuel? If this method worked don't you think the utility companies would be converting to it as we speak. Locally... Tarrant county Texas is about a 30 mile square containing most of Fort Worth. TXU spent 260 million on fuel last month alone... Just in Tarrant county... There is an old cowboy adage.... "The best way to double your money is to fold it in half and put it back in your pocket" At 07:51 AM 9/25/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, > Did you know that many other countries already use water to run their >cars? I didn't! This link will explain it to you; >http://www.fuellesspower.com/water.html >Check out the whole range of products for SALE on the site......... >sigh >MJ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 09:09:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA25466; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:06:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <15.99b01d2.2700d1c2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:05:22 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Resent-Message-ID: <"niGVl2.0.jD6.BWtpv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16895 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests (Cont) Hello all, I ran a more controlled experiment to see if a could duplicate the apparent weight loss I measured after shaking crushed chalk. To check for a scale problem I put together a container with coins almost exactly the same weight as the chalk sample. Then, if the sample lost weight after shaking, I checked to see if the coins lost weight also (scale problem). This did not occur -- the scale works fine. With the second sample (new crushed chalk, old container) I saw a weight loss of a milligram or two after shaking, but I now think it may be caused by heating the sample with the shaking. If I simply place the container with chalk near a heat source (hair dryer or stove) until it becomes barely warm to the touch, the weight loss is 5 to 10 milligrams. I have seen this effect in other experiments, but I didn't think shaking would heat the container enough for a measurable effect. I may have been wrong. Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 10:13:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA28556; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:08:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:08:18 -0700 Message-ID: <39CF8330.86316F56@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:54:08 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <200009231734.NAA11161@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <001701c0259f$53d6fcc0$4e3dee3f@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xTfGK2.0.xz6.2Qupv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16896 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Tribo-gravity --- avoiding heat artifacts (little delayed post, forgot to send it :) Hi All, As shaking, holding in hand and ultrasonic vibration cause heating of samples and the container, it would be necessary to regulate the temperature before weight measurements to avoid air density change inside container. It would also important the contain er do not escape air or vapors outside. The container could be protected by an envellop while shaken to prevent dust or other things may casue stick to it, and cause weight change. Regards, hamdi From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 10:16:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA00794; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:15:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:15:56 -0700 Message-ID: <39CF8A21.760FD182@csrlink.net> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:23:45 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: site claims to have plans for sale for converting toh2o power References: <4.2.0.58.20000925084417.00953d50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Jdsi52.0.IC.BXupv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16897 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com hi, agreed. I didn't think I needed to include the "caveat emptor" warning. I found the site entertaining from the perspective that they claim to already have all the answers and have gotten them apparently by reading a bunch of old, still very debatable patents. I posted it for sheer entertainment value. MJ Charles Ford wrote: > Watch it folks... > > Fact is when you can make something and get filthy stinking rich from the > profits you don't sell the plans. > > When I design things that work I do not sell the plans.... > I enter into a manufacturing agreement where I will have residual income > for as long as the product continues to sell.... > > When I design something that does not work I keep the plans and the notes > so that I and others can learn form my mistakes.... Although I would > dearly love to be able to recover some of my lost engineering costs by > say.... Selling a set of plans to any gullable Joe with a few bucks. > > Does anybody know which country / s are already using water for fuel? If > this method worked don't you think the utility companies would be > converting to it as we speak. > Locally... Tarrant county Texas is about a 30 mile square containing most > of Fort Worth. TXU spent 260 million on fuel last month alone... Just in > Tarrant county... > > There is an old cowboy adage.... > > "The best way to double your money is to fold it in half and put it back in > your pocket" > > At 07:51 AM 9/25/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi, > > Did you know that many other countries already use water to run their > >cars? I didn't! This link will explain it to you; > >http://www.fuellesspower.com/water.html > >Check out the whole range of products for SALE on the site......... > >sigh > >MJ > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 12:57:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA29001; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:51:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:51:37 -0700 Message-ID: <003101c02729$972fab80$dad666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: site claims to have plans for sale for converting to h2o power Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:48:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZsGQq2.0.q47.8pwpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16898 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Very lenient with the term "free energy", aren't they... -----Original Message----- From: Mike Johnston To: Michael S. Johnston Cc: energy21 Date: Monday, September 25, 2000 7:49 AM Subject: [FG]: site claims to have plans for sale for converting to h2o power >Hi, > Did you know that many other countries already use water to run their >cars? I didn't! This link will explain it to you; >http://www.fuellesspower.com/water.html >Check out the whole range of products for SALE on the site......... >sigh >MJ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 13:23:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA07563; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:18:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:18:26 -0700 Message-ID: <014f01c0272d$c76d1400$7d736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <200009231734.NAA11161@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <001701c0259f$53d6fcc0$4e3dee3f@default> <39CF8330.86316F56@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:18:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"bcqmC2.0.Zr1.HCxpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16899 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Tribo-gravity --- avoiding heat artifacts the ancient vimanas were alledged to have shaken or rotated mercury around to develop levity so maybe this tribo gravity is similiar to that? ----- Original Message ----- From: "hamdi ucar" To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 9:54 AM Subject: [FG]: Tribo-gravity --- avoiding heat artifacts > (little delayed post, forgot to send it :) > > Hi All, > > As shaking, holding in hand and ultrasonic vibration cause heating of samples and the container, it would be necessary to regulate the temperature before weight measurements to avoid air density change inside container. It would also important the container do not escape air or vapors outside. > > The container could be protected by an envellop while shaken to prevent dust or other things may casue stick to it, and cause weight change. > > Regards, hamdi > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 13:44:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA17733; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:44:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:44:15 -0700 Message-ID: <015601c02731$6739dce0$7d736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <200009231734.NAA11161@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <001701c0259f$53d6fcc0$4e3dee3f@default> <39CF8330.86316F56@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:44:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"-2SI9.0.uK4.Vaxpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16900 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Tribo-gravity --- avoiding heat artifacts has anyone tried a paint shaker to agitate it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "hamdi ucar" To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 9:54 AM Subject: [FG]: Tribo-gravity --- avoiding heat artifacts > (little delayed post, forgot to send it :) > > Hi All, > > As shaking, holding in hand and ultrasonic vibration cause heating of samples and the container, it would be necessary to regulate the temperature before weight measurements to avoid air density change inside container. It would also important the container do not escape air or vapors outside. > > The container could be protected by an envellop while shaken to prevent dust or other things may casue stick to it, and cause weight change. > > Regards, hamdi > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 14:43:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA14688; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:37:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:37:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000925163636.00965350@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:37:13 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: site claims to have plans for sale for converting toh2o power In-Reply-To: <39CF8A21.760FD182@csrlink.net> References: <4.2.0.58.20000925084417.00953d50@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"PxFRx1.0.Kb3.NMypv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16901 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sorry yall.. missed the humor first time round... At 01:23 PM 9/25/00 -0400, you wrote: >hi, >agreed. I didn't think I needed to include the "caveat emptor" warning. I >found >the site entertaining from the perspective that they claim to already have all >the answers and have gotten them apparently by reading a bunch of old, still >very debatable patents. >I posted it for sheer entertainment value. >MJ > >Charles Ford wrote: > > > Watch it folks... > > > > Fact is when you can make something and get filthy stinking rich from the > > profits you don't sell the plans. > > > > When I design things that work I do not sell the plans.... > > I enter into a manufacturing agreement where I will have residual income > > for as long as the product continues to sell.... > > > > When I design something that does not work I keep the plans and the notes > > so that I and others can learn form my mistakes.... Although I would > > dearly love to be able to recover some of my lost engineering costs by > > say.... Selling a set of plans to any gullable Joe with a few bucks. > > > > Does anybody know which country / s are already using water for fuel? If > > this method worked don't you think the utility companies would be > > converting to it as we speak. > > Locally... Tarrant county Texas is about a 30 mile square containing most > > of Fort Worth. TXU spent 260 million on fuel last month alone... Just in > > Tarrant county... > > > > There is an old cowboy adage.... > > > > "The best way to double your money is to fold it in half and put it back in > > your pocket" > > > > At 07:51 AM 9/25/00 -0400, you wrote: > > >Hi, > > > Did you know that many other countries already use water to run their > > >cars? I didn't! This link will explain it to you; > > >http://www.fuellesspower.com/water.html > > >Check out the whole range of products for SALE on the site......... > > >sigh > > >MJ > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 14:48:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA09831; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:43:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:43:11 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:26:15 -0700 From: "Rick Dunn" To: , Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_1F47E447.187910D1" Resent-Message-ID: <"mv3dC.0.SP2.kRypv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16902 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_1F47E447.187910D1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You might also find that different materials require a different frequency = of sound wave to get similar amounts of weight loss. Again, this correlates= with John Keeley's work with levitation. He found that different = materials responded to different frequencies / combinations of different = frequencies to obtain similar results. Rick >>> knuke@lcia.com 09/25/00 06:14AM >>> cjford writes: >The speed of sound is a direct function of the density of the material = g/cc >The adsorption has to do with the stiffness and the decsity... There is = a=20 >formula somewhere... but a material with a high density and low = stiffness=20 >(hardness) more readly converts sound to heat even though the speed of=20 >sound through it is faster... like lead Now this is interesting, and it makes sense. I'm also wondering if the residual weight loss isn't due to some kind of refactory sound process = that is happening internally to the individual grains of the material, causing the higher density/higher stiffness material to continue to vibrate longer than that of those materials of lower density and stiffness. The = soundwaves may be kept inside each of the individual particles of the material the = way light is kept in a room full of mirrors, for example, and the energy would not be as easily communciated or radiated or lost to the outside environment. There would be opposing wavefronts crashing into each other within each grain as well, like lightwaves in a maser. This would happen = at extremely high frequencies, too. The smaller the grain size, the denser = the material, and the stiffer the material, all together should give the best results, no? Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm --=_1F47E447.187910D1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: HTML
You might also find that different materials require = a=20 different frequency of sound wave to get similar amounts of weight loss. = Again,=20 this correlates with John Keeley's work with levitation. He found that = different=20 materials responded to different frequencies / combinations of different=20= frequencies to obtain similar results.
 
Rick

>>> knuke@lcia.com 09/25/00 06:14AM=20 >>>
cjford writes:
>The speed of sound is a direct = function of=20 the density of the material   g/cc
>The adsorption has to = do=20 with the stiffness and the decsity...   There is a
>formul= a=20 somewhere...  but a material with a high density and low stiffness=20
>(hardness) more readly converts sound to heat even though the = speed of=20
>sound through it is faster...  like lead

Now this = is=20 interesting, and it makes sense.  I'm also wondering if the
residua= l=20 weight loss isn't due to some kind of refactory sound process that
is=20= happening internally to the individual grains of the material, causing
t= he=20 higher density/higher stiffness material to continue to vibrate longer
t= han=20 that of those materials of lower density and stiffness.  The=20 soundwaves
may be kept inside each of the individual particles of = the=20 material the way
light is kept in a room full of mirrors, for example, = and=20 the energy would
not be as easily communciated or radiated or lost to = the=20 outside
environment.  There would be opposing wavefronts crashing = into=20 each other
within each grain as well, like lightwaves in a maser.  = This=20 would happen at
extremely high frequencies, too.  The smaller the = grain=20 size, the denser the
material, and the stiffer the material, all = together=20 should give the best
results, no?

Knuke

Michael T.=20 Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The = Villages,=20 Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke@LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.= htm

--=_1F47E447.187910D1-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 15:28:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA29834; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:27:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:27:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:27:37 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: sciclub-list@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <91.eae446.26febe30@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"E55ix.0.VH7.W5zpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16903 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: The AMATEUR SCIENTIST cdrom is shipping Tinkersguild says that the Scientific American CDROM is now shipping (finally! It was supposed to come out in June!) See http://www.tinkersguild.com. It has all the "Amateur Scientist" and "Amateur Telescope Making" magazine columns going back 70 years. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 15:30:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA32451; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:29:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:29:56 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:29:19 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <6ujvssg26pialed4fvbhqnognrnbdqv46p@4ax.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA32414 Resent-Message-ID: <"E-Sku2.0.uw7.Z7zpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16904 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Timothy Flytch's message of Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:53:50 PDT: [snip] >Whoa... Robin... Where did you get this??? >From one of these lists I think ;) >This just can't be... gravity affects weight... So *if* the above were true >then we could simply measure the weight of a given object and correlate it's >changes with changes in barometric pressure... This dose not happen in the >real world... So the above is simply can not be true... [snip] Yes, I suppose it would have been noticed wouldn't it. Well, it wasn't a notion I was wedded to, so I'm happy to drop it. It has however always seemed rather strange to me that low pressure regions (which are supposed to be caused by rising warm air), are in fact always cold, miserable and wet. In light of the both your comment above, and my own, I would like to propose that low pressure regions are in fact caused by a high moisture content in the air, which because water molecules are lighter than oxygen and nitrogen molecules results in a column of wet air weighing less than a column of dry air, even if the wet air is colder (in some cases). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 15:43:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05078; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:42:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:42:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <015601c02731$6739dce0$7d736bc6@compaq> References: <200009231734.NAA11161@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <001701c0259f$53d6fcc0$4e3dee3f@default> <39CF8330.86316F56@verisoft.com.tr> <015601c02731$6739dce0$7d736bc6@compaq> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:42:33 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Tribo-gravity --- avoiding heat artifacts Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"ylf6P1.0.FF1.dJzpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16905 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com edward - I tried both a vibrating back massager and sound waves. Negative on the massager. The sound worked but the shaking didn't. I did the sound at night, the shaking in the day. Maybe time of day has an influence? The vial was noticibly warmer after shaking but not after acoustic activation. T.T.Brown suggests that some materials can be shaken as in a paint shaker. People have suggested warming as an artifact source, but my warmed vial didn't get lighter, and Nick has done heating as a control too. Still strange, still needs lots of work. I have no idea what the details were with the ancient mercury engines, so no idea why/how they worked. I do tend to believe that they were not just made up stories though. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 15:51:52 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA07855; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:51:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:51:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:51:16 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <39CFCC83.1C8DF5D1@groupz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"HHvhz2.0.Fw1.cRzpv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16906 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Seen the freenrg "tribo-grav" thread? On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, sno wrote: > Maybe I am missing something....I thought he sealed the test > tube....if he did, then how does heating cause weight loss....???... A better question: DOES heating alone cause a measurable weight loss? If so then the possible mechanism is a separate issue. (Maybe the heated boundary layer at the container surface provides some bouyancy?) Nick did report testing this, but only to exclude any effects of the warmth of the water-bath inside the ultrasonic cleaner. If hotspots develop in the test sample, could they cause the measured weight loss? The regain of weight over 15 minutes sounds suspiciously like slow cooling. I vaguely recall that air at sea level weighs about ??1/2KG?? per cubic meter. That gives 5E-7 grams/cc lifting force for a vacuum region. It doesn't sound like atmospheric bouyancy could account for the size of the effect he found. If a sample tube heated to 90C doesn't weigh measurably less, and if it's weight doesn't increase as it cools to room temperature, then heat is not an issue. Ah, there's another variation on sample testing: chill a sample to 30C, run the ultrasound with ice in the water bath, then see if it has any effect on the weight gain compared to starting at room temperature instead. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 16:14:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA24817; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39CFDBFE.3D7DBA63@groupz.net> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:13:02 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1siWpfcUINhQ,x-ns2r2d09OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Seen the freenrg "tribo-grav" thread? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Wzkpp.0.f36.9mzpv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16907 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Heated air expands...therebye weighing less...isn't this what causes bouyancy...if tube is sealed then no expansion possible.....if heating alone caused weight loss then a truck of sand, setting in the sun, would weigh less as it heated up... am sure this would have been noticed....as trucks are paid by weight.....steve William Beaty wrote: > On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, sno wrote: > > > Maybe I am missing something....I thought he sealed the test > > tube....if he did, then how does heating cause weight loss....???... > > A better question: DOES heating alone cause a measurable weight loss? If > so then the possible mechanism is a separate issue. (Maybe the heated > boundary layer at the container surface provides some bouyancy?) > > Nick did report testing this, but only to exclude any effects of the > warmth of the water-bath inside the ultrasonic cleaner. If hotspots > develop in the test sample, could they cause the measured weight loss? > The regain of weight over 15 minutes sounds suspiciously like slow > cooling. > > I vaguely recall that air at sea level weighs about ??1/2KG?? per cubic > meter. That gives 5E-7 grams/cc lifting force for a vacuum region. It > doesn't sound like atmospheric bouyancy could account for the size of the > effect he found. If a sample tube heated to 90C doesn't weigh measurably > less, and if it's weight doesn't increase as it cools to room temperature, > then heat is not an issue. > > Ah, there's another variation on sample testing: chill a sample to 30C, > run the ultrasound with ice in the water bath, then see if it has any > effect on the weight gain compared to starting at room temperature > instead. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 17:10:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA04682; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 17:10:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 17:10:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp2.ihug.co.nz: Host p576.nzwide.ihug.co.nz [203.109.253.66] claimed to be srae Message-ID: <007a01c0274e$30785a20$42fd6dcb@ihug.co.nz> From: "Stuart Rae" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:09:37 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"TKeD53.0.q81.Rb-pv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16908 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi, Robin and Timothy said:... > > > >It has been suggested that high and low pressure regions are actually > >caused > >by variations in the Earth's gravity field, rather than by warm air rising > >etc. If so, then it might pay to record the barometric pressure when the > >experiment is done, to see if any correlation turns up. > > > > > >Regards, > > > >Robin van Spaandonk > > Whoa... Robin... Where did you get this??? > This just can't be... gravity affects weight... So *if* the above were true > then we could simply measure the weight of a given object and correlate it's > changes with changes in barometric pressure... This dose not happen in the > real world... So the above is simply can not be true... > > "Air flow" is my life long study... To understand air flows simply look at a > small stream or creak... You see waves, currents, and eddies... This is what > causes the pressure changes... Not just heat alone... nor standing waves > alone... But definitely not gravity fluctuations... > Funny thing that. So gravitational forces can directly affect water and therefore generate ocean tides, ... but not air, ...or atmosphere pressure ? I wonder how that can that be. Maybe we have a different kind of weather down -under. But don't take my word for it. Check out http://www.predictweather.com/ I have two of his books, and I've studied his co-relations in careful detail. His propositions appear to be quite correct, and I frequently consulte his predictions .....with considerable success, I might add. The only thing that Mr Ring and I might agree to disagree on, is that gravity is an attractive force. But it makes no difference.... Regards, SR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 18:45:21 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA09277; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:44:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:44:44 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:44:09 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA09251 Resent-Message-ID: <"iDG5Q1.0.sG2.B-_pv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16909 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Charles Ford's message of Mon, 25 Sep 2000 08:41:12 -0500: >OK... > >The hardness of a material and the density of a material are two different >things. If you compare lead to magnesium you will find that lead is very >soft and magnesium is very hard. You will also discover that lead is dense >and magnesium is rare (rare as in not dense). > >The speed of sound is faster through lead then it is through >magnesium. The speed has nothing to do with the hardness but rather with >the density. The hardness and the density both work into a formula >together "Acoustical Transmission Efficiency" Webelements http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Pb/phys.html gives the velocity of sound in Mg as 4602 m/sec and in Pb 1260 m/sec. So the correlation would appear to be the other way around. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 18:52:50 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA10354; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:47:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:47:17 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: site claims to have plans for sale for converting to h2o power Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:46:42 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <39CF3C33.6BFE2B6B@csrlink.net> In-Reply-To: <39CF3C33.6BFE2B6B@csrlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA10330 Resent-Message-ID: <"cSScm2.0.hX2.b00qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16910 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:51:16 -0400: >Hi, > Did you know that many other countries already use water to run their >cars? Name one. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 18:54:17 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA11652; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:48:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:48:47 -0700 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:48:41 -0400 Message-Id: <200009260148.VAA24262@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> X-Sender: inet1547@pop3.atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@lcia.com (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Tribo-gravity --- avoiding heat artifacts Resent-Message-ID: <"l2I9m1.0.zr2.-10qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16911 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Edward writes: > has anyone tried a paint shaker to agitate it? I know this is a serious suggestion, and it is valid, but I just had the funniest thought. I don't know if you remember those fat reducing machines that overweight, wealthy women used to get back in the 60's that had a belt that went around their backsides, and it would shake them violently to break up their fat molecules or whatever. I wonder if their weight loss only lasted a half an hour as well. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke@LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 18:54:54 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA14985; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:54:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:54:14 -0700 Message-ID: <39CFFBF3.A636FB21@turboweb.net.au> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:29:23 +1100 From: "Allan (or Shirley) Alderson" Organization: Tamworth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: RE:[FG]:Tribo-gravitic material References: <008901c01674$dbc1c320$0dff08d0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Z3sqq1.0.uf3.570qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16912 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If domains can move, they can rotate. Maybe they are all spinning? > Larry Canada wrote: > > With interest I have read the postings for some months now but have > been somewhat reluctant to render comments. > > Is it possible that the particles when agitated, loose or fail to > maintain domain alignment? The percentage of particles loosing domain > alignment would reach a constant dependent upon the frequency of the > agitation. When the agitation stops, the non-aligned particles are > brought into alignment by the dominant field. Just a what-if. Of > course this scenario requires a link between gravity and magnetism. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 19:13:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA23953; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:13:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:13:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:12:58 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Seen the freenrg "tribo-grav" thread? In-Reply-To: <39CFDBFE.3D7DBA63@groupz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"eTCJU.0.As5.iO0qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16913 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, sno wrote: > Heated air expands...therebye weighing less... > isn't this > what causes bouyancy...if tube is sealed then no expansion > possible..... The whole tube can expand. Also, if the tube is "coated" by warm air, this coating can lift it. However, I think the effect is far smaller than Nick's measurements. > if heating alone caused weight loss then a truck > of sand, setting in the sun, would weigh less as it heated up... But a "large" tribogravity effect is 1/20 of 1%. Not something easily measured by non-laboratory instruments. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 19:16:20 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16135; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000001c0275f$da573aa0$403dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <200009231734.NAA11161@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net> <001701c0259f$53d6fcc0$4e3dee3f@default> <39CF8330.86316F56@verisoft.com.tr> <015601c02731$6739dce0$7d736bc6@compaq> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:13:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"x-G-7.0.wx3.rQ0qv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16914 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Re: Tribo-gravity --- avoiding heat artifacts Hi, Edward; One of the systems used by Dr. Brown was indeed a paint shaker. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "edward webber" To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 4:44 PM Subject: [FG]: Re: Tribo-gravity --- avoiding heat artifacts > has anyone tried a paint shaker to agitate it? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "hamdi ucar" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 9:54 AM > Subject: [FG]: Tribo-gravity --- avoiding heat artifacts > > > > (little delayed post, forgot to send it :) > > > > Hi All, > > > > As shaking, holding in hand and ultrasonic vibration cause heating of > samples and the container, it would be necessary to regulate the temperature > before weight measurements to avoid air density change inside container. It > would also important the container do not escape air or vapors outside. > > > > The container could be protected by an envellop while shaken to prevent > dust or other things may casue stick to it, and cause weight change. > > > > Regards, hamdi > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 19:18:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA26243; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:17:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:17:32 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000925211735.00964170@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:18:47 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"EjMFD1.0.qP6.yS0qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16915 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Fwd: handy link Trying research on some of those German .DU cites.... Try this >www.freetranslation.com Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 19:21:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA29351; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:20:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:20:30 -0700 Message-ID: <001601c0275f$e6956260$7cd666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:17:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"85-wU2.0.WA7.kV0qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16916 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I'm sure gravity effects air pressure to some extent, but it's hardly debatable that air flow is the main cause. Why do you disagree? -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Rae To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, September 25, 2000 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials > >Hi, > >Robin and Timothy said:... > >> > >> >It has been suggested that high and low pressure regions >are actually >> >caused >> >by variations in the Earth's gravity field, rather than >by warm air rising >> >etc. If so, then it might pay to record the barometric >pressure when the >> >experiment is done, to see if any correlation turns up. >> > >> > >> >Regards, >> > >> >Robin van Spaandonk >> >> Whoa... Robin... Where did you get this??? >> This just can't be... gravity affects weight... So *if* >the above were true >> then we could simply measure the weight of a given object >and correlate it's >> changes with changes in barometric pressure... This dose >not happen in the >> real world... So the above is simply can not be true... >> >> "Air flow" is my life long study... To understand air >flows simply look at a >> small stream or creak... You see waves, currents, and >eddies... This is what >> causes the pressure changes... Not just heat alone... nor >standing waves >> alone... But definitely not gravity fluctuations... >> > >Funny thing that. So gravitational forces can directly >affect water and therefore generate ocean tides, ... but not >air, ...or atmosphere pressure ? I wonder how that can that be. > >Maybe we have a different kind of weather down -under. > >But don't take my word for it. Check out >http://www.predictweather.com/ > >I have two of his books, and I've studied his co-relations >in careful detail. His propositions appear to be quite >correct, and I frequently consulte his predictions .....with >considerable success, I might add. > >The only thing that Mr Ring and I might agree to disagree >on, is that gravity is an attractive force. But it makes no >difference.... > >Regards, > >SR > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 20:31:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA22786; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:31:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:31:10 -0700 Message-ID: <325380B7F2EED211B46700805F15B4654D1F08@itntl-msg02.itntl.bhp.com.au> From: "Croese, Darren DM" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: [FG]: site claims to have plans for sale for converting to h2 o power Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:30:11 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"2PPTs1.0.xZ5.zX1qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16917 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Mon, 25 Sep 2000 >07:51:16 -0400: > >>Hi, >> Did you know that many other countries already run their cars on water? > >Name one. > Venice. ;-) Daz. EOM NOTICE - This message contains information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. It may also be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate , copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify postmaster@bhp.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 20:47:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA28169; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:47:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:47:03 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: site claims to have plans for sale for converting to h2 o power Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:46:18 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <325380B7F2EED211B46700805F15B4654D1F08@itntl-msg02.itntl.bhp.com.au> In-Reply-To: <325380B7F2EED211B46700805F15B4654D1F08@itntl-msg02.itntl.bhp.com.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA28104 Resent-Message-ID: <"eWlnp.0.yt6.sm1qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16918 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Croese, Darren DM's message of Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:30:11 +1100: >>In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Mon, 25 Sep 2000 >>07:51:16 -0400: >> >>>Hi, >>> Did you know that many other countries already run their cars on water? >> >>Name one. >> > >Venice. >;-) Venice is a city not a country, and last time I checked cars running on water sank ;). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 21:02:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA01259; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:02:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:02:08 -0700 Message-ID: <39D01F58.17F33DF0@enter.net> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 00:00:24 -0400 From: David Rosignoli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Seen the freenrg "tribo-grav" thread? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LhpqK.0.aJ._-1qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16919 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com William Beaty wrote: > The whole tube can expand. Also, if the tube is "coated" by warm air, > this coating can lift it. However, I think the effect is far smaller than > Nick's measurements. > > > if heating alone caused weight loss then a truck > > of sand, setting in the sun, would weigh less as it heated up... > > But a "large" tribogravity effect is 1/20 of 1%. Not something easily > measured by non-laboratory instruments. If heat is causing this effect in some fasion by perhaps affecting the bouyancy, then why would some materials work and not others? If the thermal mass goes up, then the time it takes that mass to reach its ambient temperature should go up. Why would Bentonite work, but not water or other powders? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 21:56:26 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15893; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:55:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:55:49 -0700 Message-ID: <39D02BD2.5B92718B@icx.net> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 00:53:38 -0400 From: Stephen Brummitt Organization: D E V X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Seen the freenrg "tribo-grav" thread? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"L_KUA1.0.Du3.Kn2qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16920 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com 'IF' this is a valid finding, then an object heated in a vacuum should also display the same weight loss. No chance for air currents, or air pressure to play a part in the reading. Stephen Brummitt ___________________________________________________________________ William Beaty wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, sno wrote: > > > Heated air expands...therebye weighing less... > > isn't this > > what causes bouyancy...if tube is sealed then no expansion > > possible..... > > The whole tube can expand. Also, if the tube is "coated" by warm air, > this coating can lift it. However, I think the effect is far smaller than > Nick's measurements. > > > if heating alone caused weight loss then a truck > > of sand, setting in the sun, would weigh less as it heated up... > > But a "large" tribogravity effect is 1/20 of 1%. Not something easily > measured by non-laboratory instruments. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 22:06:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA19257; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:06:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:06:23 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Seen the freenrg "tribo-grav" thread? Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:05:47 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <39D01F58.17F33DF0@enter.net> In-Reply-To: <39D01F58.17F33DF0@enter.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA19234 Resent-Message-ID: <"8dncx1.0.oi4.Ex2qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16921 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to David Rosignoli's message of Tue, 26 Sep 2000 00:00:24 -0400: [snip] >If heat is causing this effect in some fasion by perhaps affecting the >bouyancy, then why would some materials work and not others? If the >thermal mass goes up, then the time it takes that mass to reach its >ambient temperature should go up. Why would Bentonite work, but not >water or other powders? Perhaps some substances are better at converting ultra-sound into heat than others (particularly if the effect turns out to be frequency sensitive). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 22:38:05 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA27578; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:37:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:37:36 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01c0277b$f4bc0f80$298b4fd1@ihug.co.nz> From: "Stuart Rae" To: References: <001601c0275f$e6956260$7cd666ce@default> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:36:44 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"-HOTl.0.lk6.VO3qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16922 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > I'm sure gravity effects air pressure to some extent, but it's hardly > debatable that air flow is the main cause. Why do you disagree? > I don't. But who says it's hardly debatable ? Have another look at Ring's underlying proposition. What are the continuing, generating causes of atmospheric air flow ? Is it a completely diferent mechanism to that which generates ocean tides and currents? I don't think so. A much quicker and more complex effect, ....because of the medium. But different ? No. SR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 25 23:17:15 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA03379; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:16:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:16:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000925231224.2f4f4a7a@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:12:24 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Re:Tribo-gravity --- Simple tests In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6Nk5b3.0.iq.wy3qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16923 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Robin and all, At 12:44 PM 09/26/00 +1100, you wrote: >>The speed of sound is faster through lead then it is through >>magnesium. The speed has nothing to do with the hardness but rather with >>the density. The hardness and the density both work into a formula >>together "Acoustical Transmission Efficiency" >Webelements >http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Pb/phys.html > >gives the velocity of sound in Mg as 4602 m/sec and in Pb 1260 m/sec. >So the correlation would appear to be the other way around. Yes. The speed of sound in a material = sqrt(elasticity/density), where the elasticity is proportional to "stiffness". The impedance of a material, used the same way for coupling as in EM waves, = velocity*density. If the unit of velocity is 1000 m/s, water with a velocity of 1500m/s and a density of 1 g/cc, has a "normalized" impedance of 1.5. -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 02:16:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA02524; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 02:16:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 02:16:25 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:16:11 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Seen the freenrg "tribo-grav" thread? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"aL1O2.0.Gd.fb6qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16924 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Bill - At 7:12 PM -0700 9/25/00, William Beaty wrote: >But a "large" tribogravity effect is 1/20 of 1%. Not something easily >measured by non-laboratory instruments. I have a little non-labratory Ohaus balance which measures 50.5 grams to the 1/100th (10mg) gram. 1/20 of 1% of a 30 gram sample is 1.5 hundreths, easily seen on this balance. Having said that though, I have been unable to reproduce the earlier positive I got with the clay. I now think there has been some stickiness around the point where I hung the test mass, as I've seen that a few times since as small deviations after jiggling the suspension at the end of the beam. Now I've bent the suspension wire in a sharper turn so it will hang at exactly the same point on the bale so the measurements are more accurate. I'll increase the sample size to the scale's max so the small percentage changes wew're looking for loom larger. I tried a run after chilling the bottle, but in Hawaii it's humid and the rapid accumulation of moisture on the outside of the bottle kept adding to the weight. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 06:54:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA04188; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 06:53:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 06:53:45 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000926082842.0095e810@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:53:47 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials In-Reply-To: <001601c0275f$e6956260$7cd666ce@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id GAA04155 Resent-Message-ID: <"yW69q3.0.J11.ffAqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16925 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If you live in the continental US (sorry Bill) you may find the information on this site far far far far moe accurate... http://weather.noaa.gov/ If you live in the US midwest you will want to keep an eye on this... http://www.spc.noaa.gov/products/ These people have been predicting the weather for several decades... In the last decade they have ben extraordinarily accurate. They can tell you everything except where the tornado is going to touch down... Do you believe that the El Niño and La Niña climate events actually happend? These are the people that told you up to a year in advance what was to come.... Note there is no reference to gravity... At 10:17 PM 9/25/00 -0400, you wrote: > I'm sure gravity effects air pressure to some extent, but it's hardly >debatable that air flow is the main cause. Why do you disagree? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Stuart Rae >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: Monday, September 25, 2000 8:11 PM >Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials > > > > > >Hi, > > > >Robin and Timothy said:... > > > >> > <> > >But don't take my word for it. Check out > >http://www.predictweather.com/ > > > >I have two of his books, and I've studied his co-relations > >in careful detail. His propositions appear to be quite > >correct, and I frequently consulte his predictions .....with > >considerable success, I might add. > > <> _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 07:10:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09621; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 07:05:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 07:05:49 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000926090014.009579c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:05:29 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity --- Acoustical energy In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20000925231224.2f4f4a7a@earthlink.net> References: <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"-S9wj3.0.EM2.yqAqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16926 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com OK.. So I misunderstood....?? But isn't elasticity inversely proportional to stiffness? By the way... cool link!! At 11:12 PM 9/25/00 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Robin and all, >At 12:44 PM 09/26/00 +1100, you wrote: > > >>The speed of sound is faster through lead then it is through > >>magnesium. The speed has nothing to do with the hardness but rather with > >>the density. The hardness and the density both work into a formula > >>together "Acoustical Transmission Efficiency" > >Webelements > >http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Pb/phys.html > > > >gives the velocity of sound in Mg as 4602 m/sec and in Pb 1260 m/sec. > >So the correlation would appear to be the other way around. > >Yes. The speed of sound in a material = >sqrt(elasticity/density), where the elasticity is proportional to "stiffness". > >The impedance of a material, used the same way for coupling as in EM waves, = >velocity*density. If the unit of velocity is 1000 m/s, water with a >velocity of 1500m/s and a density of 1 g/cc, has a "normalized" impedance >of 1.5. >-Dave D. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 07:43:35 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA25725; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 07:42:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 07:42:48 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000926091856.0095a6f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:40:09 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20000925231224.2f4f4a7a@earthlink.net> References: <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"K6zko2.0.hH6.dNBqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16927 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Tribo-gravity Acoustical energy At 11:12 PM 9/25/00 +0000, you wrote: > >http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Pb/phys.html Velocity as understood by most might be measured in m/s (meters per second) What is this?>>> Velocity of sound [/m s-1]: 1260 is this velocity or some nonsensical representation.... of some laboratory standardization. ?? divided by (distance * (1/time)) ????? > >gives the velocity of sound in Mg as 4602 m/sec and in Pb 1260 m/sec. > >So the correlation would appear to be the other way around. > >Yes. The speed of sound in a material = >sqrt(elasticity/density), where the elasticity is proportional to "stiffness". > >The impedance of a material, used the same way for coupling as in EM waves, = >velocity*density. If the unit of velocity is 1000 m/s, water with a >velocity of 1500m/s and a density of 1 g/cc, has a "normalized" impedance >of 1.5. >-Dave D. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 12:56:25 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA21147; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:56:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:55:56 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <3e.15e8171.27025925@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:55:17 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Resent-Message-ID: <"fEcM5.0.v95.CzFqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16928 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Seen the freenrg "tribo-grav" thread? (more questions) In a message dated 9/25/00 4:15:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sno@groupz.net writes: > Heated air expands...therebye weighing less...isn't this > what causes bouyancy...if tube is sealed then no expansion > possible.....if heating alone caused weight loss then a truck > of sand, setting in the sun, would weigh less as it heated up... > am sure this would have been noticed....as trucks are paid > by weight.....steve What you say is true, but the reduction in weight I have been seeing is apparently not caused by air inside the container effects. The reason I say that is because whether my container is empty, half full, or full (almost no air to expand) it loses 8-11 milligrams of weight when it is heated to be warm to the touch. But the plot thickens. If I weigh my original container inside a larger container which is SEALABLE, heat the smaller container and seal it inside the larger container, the combination still loses weight --about 15 milligrams. This would seem to rule out air current effects. Buoyancy effects may explain the weight loss of this sealed double-container, but why should the original container weigh less just because it it is warm to the touch ie. has warm air around it? In fact, if the air is less dense all around the container, from Archimedes principle you might expect it to weigh more. I have tried to eliminate static electricity as a possible cause of these weight losses -- I don't *think* it has any effect. So it would appear for tribo-grav effects if a I use a sample that heats the container when I shake it I will see a weight loss. Exactly why there is an apparent weight loss is not as clear. Anyone care to explain? (I have some additional results that could best be described only as bizarre, but I want to make sure they are real and repeatable before I post them) Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 14:45:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04748; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3e.15e8171.27025925@aol.com> References: <3e.15e8171.27025925@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:39:00 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Seen the freenrg "tribo-grav" thread? (more questions) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"t-t95.0.3A1.3UHqv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16929 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ken - >(I have some additional results that could best be described only as >bizarre, but I want to make sure they are real and repeatable before I post >them) Now THAT'S one of the main reason's why I'm on this list! And...maybe some of us aren't too concerned about duplication? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 15:22:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10003; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:21:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:21:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001501c02808$54a7b3e0$243dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <3e.15e8171.27025925@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 18:22:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"1QC6r2.0.7S2.X5Iqv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16930 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Tribo Gravity Artifacts Gentlemen; Today I may have confirmed a major artifact with my own observations. However, I want to add the caveat ahead of time that what I observed may not nesessarily rule out the tribo-grav effect, but at least it forces me to back wayyyy up and think out alternative experiments carefully. I had moved from surveying different materials with the plastic bottle/ ultrasonic tank to the next generation. I went to a 50 mL volumetric flask (pyrex) with stopper, and an acoustic source consisting of a 2 inch diam. PZT connected through a 50 watt Krohn Hite amplifier to a signal generator. This was allowing me to experiment with power and frequency, since Saturday. At any rate, I was primarily working with the bentonite powder, and it looked like I was seeing an increase in the effect with both power and frequency. I observed that heating from the PZT and probably the ultrasonic action on the powder itself was getting the pyrex flask fairly warm. So I used a digital K thermocouple probe to monitor the temp after I would make a "sonic" run. Flask temp right before placing on the balance pan ranged from 45C to 57C, higher frequency seeming to make the the flask hotter (loss from the PZT?) So then, allowing an hour for the settling out of weight (and temperature) I placed the bulb end of the flask in front of a heat lamp to warm it up to about 75C. I then took it back to the balance table, and watched the flask with the thermocouple probe until it cooled to 57C. At that point, I placed it on the pan, then weighed it. Weight loss - to the tune of 11 milligrams, which was essentially what I had seen on the previous "sonic" run. Well, then I think, OK, maybe heat is enough to jostle the particles to produce the tribo-grav effect anyway. So I repeated the heat-only procedure with large selenium nuggets in the flask, decent emissivity, but no small grains. Got similar weight loss. hmmm. I stared at the balance for a while. I now think what may be happening is that air warmed by the outer flask surface rises, and slightly cooler air moves in low and pushes upward on the pan slightly. Now I AM honestly at a loss to explain why I did NOT get this action when I ran heat - only controls early on, with the plastic bottles or test tubes. What I saw today makes some sense, but I don't know why I didn't get it before. Everything seemed very well behaved, and the effect looked robust. At any rate, for those still interested in continuing, it looks like there could be a couple of viable experimental routes. One would be to use a small cryo-flask, or make a simple insulated double wall bottle. Another would be to perform the weighing in a vacuum, which even for me at my lab is a tall order. A simpler version would be to have a foam sleeve and top cover for a small bottle, already weighed. After acoustics, one would slip the bottle into the sleeve, place the cover on, and thusly should the heat transfer be attenuated at least to the point where you could see if it was a serious factor. I suppose that I should apologize in advance for anyone who feels that this experiment was a waste of their time. I myself do not feel it has been. I am not done with it, although I need to think out my next step. Even if it does in the end turn out to be all artifact, it will have given a clearer picture of what Dr. Brown saw 30 years ago. Science needs to be brutal with itself. There are a lot of scientists, both alt-sci and traditional who do not go to the proper lengths of trying to disprove their own observations. Some of these same spend too much time trying to disprove other's experiments without even trying them! Antigravity, when it comes along, will need to survive all tests by fire that fair and honest scientists can throw at it. No slack! It will be enough of a paradigm breaker that it will have to survive the harshest of scrutiny. There are other projects I need to put some time in on here in the meantime. In a few days, I will be forwarding another update / posting from my old friend Dr. Faile who continues to look at LED anomalies. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 16:23:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA32040; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:22:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:22:26 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity Acoustical energy Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:21:47 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.16.20000925231224.2f4f4a7a@earthlink.net> <4.2.0.58.20000926091856.0095a6f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000926091856.0095a6f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA31869 Resent-Message-ID: <"4PtdH2.0.Wq7.n-Iqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16931 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to Charles Ford's message of Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:40:09 -0500: >At 11:12 PM 9/25/00 +0000, you wrote: > >> >http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Pb/phys.html > >Velocity as understood by most might be measured in m/s (meters per second) > >What is this?>>> Velocity of sound [/m s-1]: 1260 >is this velocity or some nonsensical representation.... of some laboratory >standardization. >?? divided by (distance * (1/time)) ????? Granted it does look a bit weird, but the initial "/" is just their way of saying "in units of", so the above would read: "in units of m*s^-1" (or meters/sec). You can check this by looking at various other units. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 17:18:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA25001; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:17:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:17:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20000926171914.216747a8@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:19:14 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity --- Acoustical energy In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000926090014.009579c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20000925231224.2f4f4a7a@earthlink.net> <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"iwU_D.0.T66.QoJqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16932 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Charles and all, At 09:05 AM 09/26/00 -0500, you wrote: >OK.. > >So I misunderstood....?? > >But isn't elasticity inversely proportional to stiffness? Yes. I should have said "modulus of elasticity" instead, which is defined as stress/strain. So a material with high stiffness has a high modulus of elasticity. An example of a modulus of elasticity is the Young's modulus. >>Yes. The speed of sound in a material = >>sqrt(elasticity/density), where the elasticity is proportional to "stiffness". >> -Dave D. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 18:35:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA20937; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 18:35:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 18:35:13 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.28.80.50] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Seen the freenrg "tribo-grav" thread? Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 18:34:32 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Sep 2000 01:34:32.0779 (UTC) FILETIME=[163321B0:01C02823] Resent-Message-ID: <"uj1Pb3.0.275.HxKqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16933 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: sno >Heated air expands...therebye weighing less...isn't this >what causes bouyancy...if tube is sealed then no expansion >possible.....if heating alone caused weight loss then a truck >of sand, setting in the sun, would weigh less as it heated up... >am sure this would have been noticed....as trucks are paid >by weight.....steve I would say yes the truck load of sand in the sun would chage weight... but what is one or two pounds... I don't think the truck scales are that accurate are they??? Let see that 1lb out of 6,000lbs so that would be an accuracy of .0167% ??? Besides, they usually spray everything with water don't they... So if one gallon of water runs off, then that would be a loss of ~7.5lb... I think a good test might to be use the same amount of power in a larger and/or smaller flask??? I would like to say "GOOD JOB GUYS" for all the people seriously testing and reporting... Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 19:56:24 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA14277; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:56:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:56:01 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000926215236.00a48830@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:57:17 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Seen the freenrg "tribo-grav" thread? (more questions) In-Reply-To: <3e.15e8171.27025925@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"5nRYP2.0.vU3.07Mqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16934 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I get it... You touch the jar... your hand heats the glass and it expands... and rarefy the air inside and the jar becomes more buoyant... like a hot air balloon... You can heat the thing up all you want but until you let some hot air out the top it doesn't have enough buoyancy to lift off... Cool ! At 03:55 PM 9/26/00 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 9/25/00 4:15:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sno@groupz.net >writes: > > > Heated air expands...therebye weighing less...isn't this > > what causes bouyancy...if tube is sealed then no expansion > > possible.....if heating alone caused weight loss then a truck > > of sand, setting in the sun, would weigh less as it heated up... > > am sure this would have been noticed....as trucks are paid > > by weight.....steve Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 20:09:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA17516; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:06:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:06:28 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.20.184.32] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravitic materials Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:05:52 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Sep 2000 03:05:52.0961 (UTC) FILETIME=[D8A48B10:01C0282F] Resent-Message-ID: <"944sO1.0.bH4.qGMqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16935 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >From: "Stuart Rae" >Funny thing that. So gravitational forces can directly >affect water and therefore generate ocean tides, ... but not >air, ...or atmosphere pressure ? I wonder how that can that be. >SR The truth is that the moon's gravitational pull dose affect air as it dose water... But to say that this is the cause of the high pressure and low pressure in our atmosphere is quite a different matter... On any given day on any weather map you can have multiple highs and lows... This alone would indicate multiple ???gravity wells??? and they do not correspond with the tides... As they may take days to move... If they were like the tide's then we would have two high's and two low's each day (like high tied's and low tide's)... This would make for some fast picnics... LOL... And umbrellas would be standard attire... LOL... Timothy... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 20:13:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA20932; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:13:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:13:17 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39D11379.923F33E0@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:22:01 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo Gravity Artifacts ( a possible fix ). References: <3e.15e8171.27025925@aol.com> <001501c02808$54a7b3e0$243dee3f@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0mHSf2.0.n65.BNMqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16936 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com How to avoid or at least mitigate heating effects... I do not reccomend the cryflask as the vac jacket is not only a good heat insulator, but a sound insulator as well... In that case.... I can see the flask heating up rapidly. The powder would be more difficult, since heating from collisions, etc, would dissapate rapidly, since each particle is small.... Weigh the powder. ( W'p ). Weigh the erlynmeyer Empty ( W'e for Weight Empty ). Weigh the erlynmeyer with the test powder. ( W'f for weight full ). Sonicate. Pour out the powder onto scale ( you can put a piece of paper or a pan on the scale, and tare it so the weight is zero ). It should cool rapidly if spread thin enough, you can test that it reaches Room temp with a thermometer. This is W'sp, weight of the sonicated powder. The thermal effects should vanish, but since the tribo-grav effect lingers, you should still see a weight reduction. Of course, you MUST be careful not to spill any of the powder... Then record the final weight of the powder after the tribo-gravity effect dissipates ( W'spd ). IE, the weight should reach a steady state value Let the flask cool, weigh it till it assumes a steady state weight, this is W'r, the weight of the flask + whatever residual powder remains in it after pouring it out. Note that the flask + whatever powder clings to it must be weighed until it assumes a steady state value. The temperature must reach room temp, and the tribo-grav effect must dissipate. You can do this weighing last. Sanity Checks... W'p should equal W'f - W'e W'spd should equal W'sp + W'r How to find the anomalous weight change.... if there is anomalous effect, then.... The weight change due to tribogravity ( W'tg ) W'tg = W'p - ( W'r - W'e ) - W'sp ^Weight of powder left clinging to wall of flask. This should eliminate temp problems due to the heat retaining abilities of pyrex. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 21:05:16 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA08258; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:04:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:04:34 -0700 Message-ID: <39D173BA.25519458@csrlink.net> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 00:12:43 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: site claims to have plans for sale for converting to h2o power References: <003101c02729$972fab80$dad666ce@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GXiN73.0.x02.I7Nqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16937 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com hehe, UI said before that "selling" "free energy" qualifies as an Oxymoron..... MJ Chris O'Barr wrote: > Very lenient with the term "free energy", aren't they... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Johnston > To: Michael S. Johnston > Cc: energy21 > Date: Monday, September 25, 2000 7:49 AM > Subject: [FG]: site claims to have plans for sale for converting to h2o > power > > >Hi, > > Did you know that many other countries already use water to run their > >cars? I didn't! This link will explain it to you; > >http://www.fuellesspower.com/water.html > >Check out the whole range of products for SALE on the site......... > >sigh > >MJ > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 21:14:31 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12679; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:14:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:14:01 -0700 Message-ID: <39D175F2.1AA71F20@csrlink.net> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 00:22:10 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: site claims to have plans for sale for converting to h2o power References: <325380B7F2EED211B46700805F15B4654D1F08@itntl-msg02.itntl.bhp.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P4ocK1.0.q53.8GNqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16939 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com hehehe, venice, good one! MJ "Croese, Darren DM" wrote: > >In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Mon, 25 Sep 2000 > >07:51:16 -0400: > > > >>Hi, > >> Did you know that many other countries already run their cars on water? > > > >Name one. > > > > Venice. > ;-) > > Daz. > > EOM > > NOTICE - This message contains information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. It may also be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that you must not dissemina te, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify postmaster@bhp.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 21:17:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA11205; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:11:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:11:59 -0700 Message-ID: <39D17579.EE91F9B2@csrlink.net> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 00:20:09 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: site claims to have plans for sale for converting to h2o power References: <39CF3C33.6BFE2B6B@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kKSjV1.0.rk2.EENqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16938 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com hi robin, I couldn't but apparently THEY can! MJ Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > In reply to Mike Johnston's message of Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:51:16 -0400: > > >Hi, > > Did you know that many other countries already use water to run their > >cars? > > Name one. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do > to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 26 22:54:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA06040; Tue, 26 Sep 2000 22:50:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 22:50:41 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:50:12 EDT To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jlnlabs@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 Resent-Message-ID: <"o3Jbc.0.9U1.ngOqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16940 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Prototype test show possible overunity sequence Please see our web page to understand this post. This post will be put on the site in a day or so. http://members.aol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm In testing the prototype I have come across a very interesting sequence of events if used in the proper way will yield overunity in an electrical generation mode. This is what I found. 1. As one of the two rotor magnets is attracted to the attraction coils (circuit OPEN) that have a ferrite core, mechanical work is available for a very interesting sequence of events. 2. If the repulsion coils have a ferrite core and the opposite rotor magnet is pulled around to them at the same time buy Step # 1, and the circuit of the repulsion coils is CLOSED during this sequence but no power supply is connected, then the approaching magnet will induce a voltage/current into the coils that will cause a repulsion of the approaching magnet. THIS IS OK TO HAPPEN, the magnet being pulled to the attraction coil's ferrite core will have equal force to counteract this repulsion. 3. Now as the rotor magnets line up with the cores of the coils, a magnetic field exists around the repulsion coils and thru the core. If you now close the series circuit shown on web site, the repulsion core and coil are already in repulsion mode and have a magnetic field and voltage/current and energy is not needed to get it that way by the series circuit. It can now become part of the Magnetic Equilibrium Motor as shown on web site. 4. As both rotor magnets are free to now rotate away from the coils, when they are at 90 degrees or so from the coils the magnetic field of both the attraction and repulsion coils is available for returning energy to the power source (battery). BUT REMEMBER, the power source only had to supply a magnetic field to the attraction coils. The collapsing magnetic field of the repulsion coils is overunity generation. The only power needed to drive the Motor/generator is power to overcome bearing friction. Aerodynamic drag is low due to rotor being a disk. There is wire resistance loss but not enough to keep the unit from being overunity. 5. I have tested each one of these steps separately and now will build a circuit to prove the concept. The device is called the LaFonte Research Group "MAGNETIC EQUILIBRIUM MOTOR/GENERATOR" and is the equal property of the LaFonte Research Group members. Thanks, Butch LaFonte 9-26-2000 Feel free to call 1-205-699-5364 Central time zone From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 02:22:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA26801; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 02:21:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 02:21:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001501c02808$54a7b3e0$243dee3f@default> References: <3e.15e8171.27025925@aol.com> <001501c02808$54a7b3e0$243dee3f@default> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:16:28 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo Gravity Artifacts Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"6qRCO3.0.gY6.hmRqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16941 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nick - I was beginning to wonder about heat again today as I got my scale to behave and ran some tests with the muscle massager. I could see the small weight loss, but I couldn't make it go away by holding a piece of paper above and below it to help block the flow. It did fade roughly in proportion to the cooling of the outer surface of the bottle. I think I'll go run a hair dryer test on it now and see if the same weight loss is there. Not a waste of time in any case! Fun, and edifying. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 02:23:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA26872; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 02:21:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 02:21:55 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:21:34 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo Gravity Artifacts Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"lwkBA3.0.iZ6.omRqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16942 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I wrote: >I think I'll go run a hair dryer test on it now and > see if the same weight loss is there. I did this and the weight loss is there and disappears slowly over several minutes. I can accelerate the rate at which the effect goes away by blowing on the bottle with cool air. Whithout the mass within to rpovide thermal mass, the outer bottle cools faster and the effect is gone. This also explains why I apparently got better results at night than in the day: bigger heat differential between the warm bottle in the cooler nights. Fun while it lasted! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 06:18:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA16113; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 06:17:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 06:17:28 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000927081351.00959e90@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:16:10 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity Acoustical energy In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20000926091856.0095a6f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.16.20000925231224.2f4f4a7a@earthlink.net> <4.2.0.58.20000926091856.0095a6f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Lj-jF2.0.gx3.dDVqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16943 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thanks... I had eventually come to that conclusion.... and to the conclusion that I was mistaken in earlier posts... At 10:21 AM 9/27/00 +1100, you wrote: >In reply to Charles Ford's message of Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:40:09 -0500: > > >At 11:12 PM 9/25/00 +0000, you wrote: > > > >> >http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Pb/phys.html > > > >Velocity as understood by most might be measured in m/s (meters per second) > > > >What is this?>>> Velocity of sound [/m s-1]: 1260 > >is this velocity or some nonsensical representation.... of some laboratory > >standardization. > >?? divided by (distance * (1/time)) ????? >Granted it does look a bit weird, but the initial "/" is just their way of >saying "in units of", so the above would read: "in units of m*s^-1" (or >meters/sec). >You can check this by looking at various other units. > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > >It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do >to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 06:51:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA27777; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 06:49:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 06:49:29 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000927082351.00959d20@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:47:57 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo Gravity Artifacts ( a possible fix ). In-Reply-To: <39D11379.923F33E0@worldnet.att.net> References: <3e.15e8171.27025925@aol.com> <001501c02808$54a7b3e0$243dee3f@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"XYlbD3.0.rn6.ehVqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16944 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com If heat is the problem then you must normalize the test environment for heat.. Weigh the container and powder at a dozen or so temperatures within the range of the experiment. Plot your results on a graph (I recommend using a pencil and graph paper). This curve will probably look exactly opposite the expansion curve of the material the container is made form. Then perform the experiment. Whenever you weigh the container you must also measure the temperature. When you subtract the weight at the correlating temperature you will get a corrected change in weight. That will be the true results (unless there is another artifact). I suspect the corrected change in wight will be zero but I am interested in what your results show. At 04:22 PM 9/26/00 -0500, you wrote:Note the effect the change in excitement has and always read at the time of weight measurement. >How to avoid or at least mitigate heating effects... > > I do not reccomend the cryflask as the vac jacket is not only a good >heat insulator, but a sound insulator as well... > > In that case.... > > I can see the flask heating up rapidly. The powder would be more >difficult, since heating from collisions, etc, would dissapate rapidly, >since each particle is small.... > > Weigh the powder. ( W'p ). > > Weigh the erlynmeyer Empty ( W'e for Weight Empty ). > > Weigh the erlynmeyer with the test powder. ( W'f for weight full ). > > Sonicate. > > Pour out the powder onto scale ( you can put a piece of paper or > a pan >on the scale, and tare it so the weight is zero ). It should cool >rapidly if spread thin enough, you can test that it reaches Room temp >with a thermometer. This is W'sp, weight of the sonicated powder. The >thermal effects should vanish, but since the tribo-grav effect lingers, >you should still see a weight reduction. Of course, you MUST be careful >not to spill any of the powder... > > Then record the final weight of the powder after the tribo-gravity >effect dissipates ( W'spd ). IE, the weight should reach a steady state >value > > Let the flask cool, weigh it till it assumes a steady state weight, >this is W'r, the weight of the flask + whatever residual powder remains >in it after pouring it out. Note that the flask + whatever powder clings >to it must be weighed until it assumes a steady state value. The >temperature must reach room temp, and the tribo-grav effect must >dissipate. You can do this weighing last. > > Sanity Checks... > > W'p should equal W'f - W'e > > W'spd should equal W'sp + W'r > > How to find the anomalous weight change.... > > if there is anomalous effect, then.... > > The weight change due to tribogravity ( W'tg ) > > W'tg = W'p - ( W'r - W'e ) - W'sp > ^Weight of powder left clinging to wall of flask. > > This should eliminate temp problems due to the heat retaining > abilities >of pyrex. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 08:25:10 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA31205; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:24:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:24:30 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000927095553.00959be0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:24:27 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Seen the freenrg "tribo-grav" thread? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"k0zI41.0.Ud7.j4Xqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16945 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 06:34 PM 9/26/00 -0700, you wrote: >>From: sno >>Heated air expands...therebye weighing less... less by volume if it is allowed to expand (otherwise there is pressure) >>isn't this what causes bouyancy...if tube is sealed then no expansion >>possible..... If the tube is sealed then no exchange of gas is possible. The material from which the tube is made will expand and contract with temperature as well. allowing the volume to change. therefore the weight per volume changes. >>if heating alone caused weight loss then a truck >>of sand, setting in the sun, would weigh less as it heated up... >>am sure this would have been noticed....as trucks are paid >>by weight.....steve This effect has ben noticed. Its not a heat = buoyancy thing. As the sand heats it is unable to trap moisture as effectively and the sand actually weighs slightly less. :-) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 08:30:48 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA22144; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Sender: jack@mail3.centurytel.net Message-ID: <39D2124C.7140E98E@centurytel.net> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:29:16 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Seen the freenrg "tribo-grav" thread? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="xcav" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="xcav" Resent-Message-ID: <"yIjRH.0.rP5.b9Xqv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16946 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com William J. Beaty wrote: A better question: DOES heating alone cause a measurable weight loss? If so then the possible mechanism is a separate issue. (Maybe the heated boundary layer at the container surface provides some bouyancy?) Horace Heffner wrote: My experience with sensitive balances is that even small heat source (to one side of the balance) creates a sufficent draft to tip the balance. The effect is much larger than bouyancy. I have had the exuberant experience of finding an "anti-gravity" device, only to discover the problem was thermal drafts caused by the heat from power to the device. Stephen Brummitt wrote: 'IF' this is a valid finding, then an object heated in a vacuum should also display the same weight loss. No chance for air currents, or air pressure to play a part in the reading. Hi All, This question (does heat affect G) was raised at the very beginning by Henry Cavendish himself in his original paper. I'm including some excerpts from Cavendish (along with a whimsical contribution from Fred Sparber). Jack Smith Cavendish, Henry. "Experiments to determine the Density of the Earth", Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London, Vol. 88, 1798, p.249-284. p. 263 I put a lamp under each [weight], and placed a thermometer with its ball close to the outside of the case, near that part which one of the weights approached to in its positive position, and in such manner that I could distingush the divisions by the telescope. Having done this, I shut the door, and some time after moved the weights to the positive position. At first, the arm was drawn aside only in its usual manner; but, in half an hour, the effect was so much increased, that the arm was drawn 14 divisons aside, instead of about three as it would otherwise have been, and the thermometer raised near 1 1/2 degrees; namely, from 61 degrees to 62 1/2 degrees. On opening the door, the weights were found to be no more heated, than just to prevent their feeling cool to my fingers p. 266 On the evening of October 17, the weights being placed in the midway position, lamps were put under them, ... They were then moved to the positive position; and in both positions the arm was drawn aside about four divisions more, after the weights had remained an hour in that position than it was at first. May 22, 1798. The experiment was repeated in the same manner, except that the lamps were made so as to burn only a short time, and only two hours were suffered to elapse before the weights were moved. The weights were now found to be scarcely 2 degrees warmer than the case; and the arm was drawn aside about two divisions more ... On May 23, the experiment was tried in the in the same manner, except that the weights were cooled by laying ice on them; ... On moving the weights ... they were found to be about 8 degrees colder than the air, and their effect on the arm seemed now to diminish on standing, instead of increasing, as it did before: as the arm was drawn aside about 2 1/2 divisons less, at the end of an hour after the motion of the weights, than it was at first. p. 284 ... the density of the earth comes out 5.48 times greater than that of water; ... It, indeed, may be objected, that as the result appears to be influnenced by the current of air, OR SOME OTHER CAUSE, THE LAWS OF WHICH WE ARE NOT WELL ACQUAINTED WITH, this cause may perhaps act always, or commonly, in the same direction and thereby make a considerble error in the result. .... Fred Sparber wrote: Earth's Present Mass = 5.98E24 Kg Earth's Present Orbital Radius Around the Sun = 1.496E11 Meters Earth's Present Orbital Velocity Around the Sun = 2.98E4 Meters/Second The Sun's Present Mass = 1.991E30 Kg Present Centrifugal Force of the Earth = M*v^2/1.496E11 = 3.5497E22 Newtons Present Gravitational Balancing Force Between The Sun and The Earth: G*Ms*Me/R^2 = 6.67E-11*1.991E30*5.98E24/(1.496E11)^2 = 3.548E22 Newtons (close) Now, drop the mass of the Sun and the Earth to 1.991E29 Kg and 5.98E23 Kg respectively, and speed up the Earth's Orbital Velocity Around the Sun to 2.98E5 Meters/Second Allowing that M' = E/ c^2' (Energy E and Momentum Mv are Constant) and G has to change to G' ... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 09:35:40 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA25326; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:34:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:34:55 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000927113211.0095fe20@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:34:55 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo-gravity --- Acoustical energy In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20000926171914.216747a8@earthlink.net> References: <4.2.0.58.20000926090014.009579c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.16.20000925231224.2f4f4a7a@earthlink.net> <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20000925081031.00953bb0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"XaDst2.0.dB6.l6Yqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16947 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com OK so I wer only a EE and now I know evrythng : - ) At 05:19 PM 9/26/00 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Charles and all, >At 09:05 AM 09/26/00 -0500, you wrote: > >OK.. > > > >So I misunderstood....?? > > > >But isn't elasticity inversely proportional to stiffness? > >Yes. I should have said "modulus of elasticity" instead, which is defined >as stress/strain. So a material with high stiffness has a high modulus of >elasticity. An example of a modulus of elasticity is the Young's modulus. > > >>Yes. The speed of sound in a material = > >>sqrt(elasticity/density), where the elasticity is proportional to >"stiffness". > >> >-Dave D. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 12:58:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA00847; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:57:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:57:13 -0700 Message-ID: <003a01c028bc$af532b80$e2d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Seen the freenrg "tribo-grav" thread? (more questions) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:54:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"GHwaH2.0.xC.O4bqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16948 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Has there been any "official" experimentation on this? -----Original Message----- From: Keasy@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 3:56 PM Subject: [FG]: Re: Seen the freenrg "tribo-grav" thread? (more questions) >In a message dated 9/25/00 4:15:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sno@groupz.net >writes: > >> Heated air expands...therebye weighing less...isn't this >> what causes bouyancy...if tube is sealed then no expansion >> possible.....if heating alone caused weight loss then a truck >> of sand, setting in the sun, would weigh less as it heated up... >> am sure this would have been noticed....as trucks are paid >> by weight.....steve > > What you say is true, but the reduction in weight I have been seeing is >apparently not caused by air inside the container effects. The reason I say >that is because whether my container is empty, half full, or full (almost no >air to expand) it loses 8-11 milligrams of weight when it is heated to be >warm to the touch. > But the plot thickens. If I weigh my original container inside a larger >container which is SEALABLE, heat the smaller container and seal it inside >the larger container, the combination still loses weight --about 15 >milligrams. This would seem to rule out air current effects. Buoyancy >effects may explain the weight loss of this sealed double-container, but why >should the original container weigh less just because it it is warm to the >touch ie. has warm air around it? In fact, if the air is less dense all >around the container, from Archimedes principle you might expect it to weigh >more. > I have tried to eliminate static electricity as a possible cause of these >weight losses -- I don't *think* it has any effect. > > So it would appear for tribo-grav effects if a I use a sample that heats >the container when I shake it I will see a weight loss. Exactly why there is >an apparent weight loss is not as clear. > > > > Anyone care to explain? > > (I have some additional results that could best be described only as >bizarre, but I want to make sure they are real and repeatable before I post >them) > > Ken > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 13:16:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA03731; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:12:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:12:34 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <56.129e3dd.2703adc8@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:08:40 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo Gravity Artifacts To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Resent-Message-ID: <"9j7Wk1.0.Cw.oIbqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16949 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 9/27/00 2:22:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rick@highsurf.com writes: > did this and the weight loss is there and disappears slowly over > several minutes. I can accelerate the rate at which the effect goes > away by blowing on the bottle with cool air. Whithout the mass within > to rpovide thermal mass, the outer bottle cools faster and the effect > is gone. > > This also explains why I apparently got better results at night than > in the day: bigger heat differential between the warm bottle in the > cooler nights. > > Fun while it lasted! Hi Rick and all, OK, we all seem to agree heating a container causes it to apparently weigh less. But does anyone understand WHAT is going on? It appears that in the past this was explained as a "thermal draft" effect, but this doesn't agree with some of my results, I don't think. If you take a container and heat it you will measure an apparent weight loss. If you do exactly the same thing but place the container in an * Air Tight* larger container which was not heated, you will measure exactly the same weight loss (from the weight of the two). I don't see how a "thermal draft" can explain this(?) (This happens whether the smaller container is full or empty, lid closed tightly or loosely closed) Any Comments? Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 14:37:57 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04336; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39D26522.47837D79@verisoft.com.tr> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 00:22:42 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo Gravity Artifacts References: <56.129e3dd.2703adc8@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"M3DZF3.0.Y31.2Tcqv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16950 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Keasy@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/27/00 2:22:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > rick@highsurf.com writes: > [snip] > > Hi Rick and all, > OK, we all seem to agree heating a container causes it to apparently > weigh less. But does anyone understand WHAT is going on? It appears that > in the past this was explained as a "thermal draft" effect, but this doesn't > agree with some of my results, I don't think. > If you take a container and heat it you will measure an apparent weight > loss. If you do exactly the same thing but place the container in an * Air > Tight* larger container which was not heated, you will measure exactly the > same weight loss (from the weight of the two). I don't see how a "thermal > draft" can explain this(?) > (This happens whether the smaller container is full or empty, lid closed > tightly or loosely closed) > Any Comments? > Air tight container does not suffice to avoid heated gas expansion caused artifacts. The contained should be also rigid, metal or glass for not be inflated by increasing pressure inside. If it enlarge, the extra volume will be carried by the air (density) . For better result the contained should be chosen by low coefficient material. Best solution to check the effect of agitation of powders is keeping the temperature constant. i.e. preheating. Regards, hamdi From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 15:45:09 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05755; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:44:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:44:33 -0700 Message-ID: <001601c028cc$a08fec40$0364c8c8@mindspring> From: "John Lighton" To: References: <56.129e3dd.2703adc8@aol.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo Gravity Artifacts Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:48:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"csLVi1.0.qP1.GXdqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16951 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > > did this and the weight loss is there and disappears slowly over > > several minutes. I can accelerate the rate at which the effect goes > > away by blowing on the bottle with cool air. Whithout the mass within > > to rpovide thermal mass, the outer bottle cools faster and the effect > > is gone. Imagine: Inner bottle in an outer bottle, insulated, perhaps with Styrofoam, and both airtight or preferably evacuated and solder-sealed. Inner bottle has a receiver (RF or IR) wired to a Darlington transistor in series with a battery and a resistor, to yield a dissipation of about 1W, thus heating whatever is in the inner bottle. It also has a transmitter (RF or IR) to transmit the temperature of the internal bottle. Weigh the assembly and then turn on the internal heater. Assuming all bottles are sealed my understanding of physics tells me that no *weight* changes are expected unless/until the outer bottle begins to change its volume. Unless....? There are probably several electronics tinkerers on this list who could set up something like this in a day or less but who (unlike moi) have the time to do so ;-+ If there's anyone in the Las Vegas area who'd like to experiment I can make available a Mettler balance that can weigh to 0.1 mg and a Cahn ultramicrobalance that can weigh to 0.1 microgram. I used to use the Cahn for monitoring the breathing of ants (each time they breathe, you can see the weight loss in real time, but no antigravity; just water loss.) John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 15:55:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA12226; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:55:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:55:23 -0700 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000926173316.00b26370@mail.endirect.qc.ca> X-Sender: marcuscole@mail.endirect.qc.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:46:43 -0400 To: jlnlabs@egroups.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Marcus Cole Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"B0VD33.0.g-2.Rhdqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16952 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine Hello everyone, I've just received my copy of Popular Mechanics(Volume 177, No 10) in it, on page 40-42 there is this article about a new way to tame gravity by using what the laboratory of Huntsville, Ala., describres as a 12-in.-dia. high temperature superconductor disc(HTSD) "When the force-field machine is complete, a bowling ball placed anywhere above this disc, which resembles a clutch plate, will stay exactly where you left it." Maybe another way to achieve Anti-Gravity? Let me know what you think of this, Marcus The great tragedy of science - the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact. - T H Huxley (English scientist, 1887-1975) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 16:00:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA25287; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001701c028d0$13c59b80$7a736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:12:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C02895.6684EF00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"unJOz1.0.fA6.kkdqv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16953 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: gravity inertia? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C02895.6684EF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable are gravity and inertia the same thing? ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C02895.6684EF00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
are gravity and inertia the same=20 thing?
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C02895.6684EF00-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 16:58:42 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA11871; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:58:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:58:07 -0700 Message-ID: <39D29342.E963D2D9@harti.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 01:39:30 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: harti@harti.com Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW03200 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, HLafonte@aol.com, "ou-builders@egroups.com" Subject: Re: [FG]: Prototype test show possible overunity sequence X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"W2OPN1.0.Iv2.Fceqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16954 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Butch, interesting concept, so you switch the coils sometimes in series, sometimes open and sometimes in parallel during rotation with your upcomming commutator ? Maybe you can post a few scope shots of the single coils induction voltage at a fixed disc rotation speed, 1. for an attraction coil with ferrite core 2. for a repulsion coil without ferrite core 3. coil Input current for attraction coil with core at fixed speed 4. coil Input current for repulsion coil without core at fixed speed. With these scope shots over at least 2 cycles one could easily see more , how your motor could work. Also try diodes to see, how this will work in supressing the right positive or negative waveform (for coil open function) Good luck to your team ! Regards, Stefan. HLafonte@aol.com schrieb: > > Please see our web page to understand this post. This post will be put on the > site in a day or so. > > http://members.aol.com/vettenrr/LaFonteResearch.htm > > In testing the prototype I have come across a very interesting sequence of > events if used in the proper way will yield overunity in an electrical > generation mode. This is what I found. > 1. As one of the two rotor magnets is attracted to the attraction coils > (circuit OPEN) that have a ferrite core, mechanical work is available for a > very interesting sequence of events. > 2. If the repulsion coils have a ferrite core and the opposite rotor magnet > is pulled around to them at the same time buy Step # 1, and the circuit of > the repulsion coils is CLOSED during this sequence but no power supply is > connected, then the approaching magnet will induce a voltage/current into the > coils that will cause a repulsion of the approaching magnet. THIS IS OK TO > HAPPEN, the magnet being pulled to the attraction coil's ferrite core will > have equal force to counteract this repulsion. > 3. Now as the rotor magnets line up with the cores of the coils, a magnetic > field exists around the repulsion coils and thru the core. If you now close > the series circuit shown on web site, the repulsion core and coil are already > in repulsion mode and have a magnetic field and voltage/current and energy is > not needed to get it that way by the series circuit. It can now become part > of the Magnetic Equilibrium Motor as shown on web site. > 4. As both rotor magnets are free to now rotate away from the coils, when > they are at 90 degrees or so from the coils the magnetic field of both the > attraction and repulsion coils is available for returning energy to the power > source (battery). BUT REMEMBER, the power source only had to supply a > magnetic field to the attraction coils. The collapsing magnetic field of the > repulsion coils is overunity generation. The only power needed to drive the > Motor/generator is power to overcome bearing friction. Aerodynamic drag is > low due to rotor being a disk. There is wire resistance loss but not enough > to keep the unit from being overunity. > 5. I have tested each one of these steps separately and now will build a > circuit to prove the concept. > The device is called the LaFonte Research Group "MAGNETIC EQUILIBRIUM > MOTOR/GENERATOR" and is the equal property of the LaFonte Research Group > members. > Thanks, > Butch LaFonte > 9-26-2000 > Feel free to call > 1-205-699-5364 > Central time zone -- Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann, Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: +49 30 345 00 497, FAX: +49 30 345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com WEB: www.harti.com www.overunity.com Better getting paid to surf the WEB: http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MCY-668 http://www.cashfiesta.com/php/join.php?ref=sonne http://www.fairad.de/FA/FairAdRef?REF=GlBbbg880N Lassen Sie sich doch lieber fuers Surfen bezahlen ! -- Get paid for your free webpages for every surfer´s click ! http://www.terrashare.com/join/overunity From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 18:02:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA08528; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:01:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:01:32 -0700 Message-ID: <003f01c028e2$7e8f14c0$76736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000926173316.00b26370@mail.endirect.qc.ca> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:24:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"dqCyV1.0.552.iXfqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16955 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine marcus i thought it was scientific american. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marcus Cole" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 2:46 PM Subject: [FG]: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine > Hello everyone, > > I've just received my copy of Popular Mechanics(Volume 177, No 10) in it, > on page 40-42 > there is this article about a new way to tame gravity by using what the > laboratory of > Huntsville, Ala., describres as a 12-in.-dia. high temperature > superconductor disc(HTSD) > "When the force-field machine is complete, a bowling ball placed anywhere > above this disc, > which resembles a clutch plate, will stay exactly where you left it." > > Maybe another way to achieve Anti-Gravity? Let me know what you think of this, > Marcus > > The great tragedy of science - the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an > ugly fact. - T H Huxley (English scientist, 1887-1975) > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 21:42:36 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA19446; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:41:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <64.6ea6694.270425c7@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 00:40:39 EDT Subject: Re: [FG]: gravity inertia? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Resent-Message-ID: <"vEjaH3.0.kl4.sliqv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16956 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In a message dated 9/27/00 4:00:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, coronav@wcn.net writes: > are gravity and inertia the same thing? If this is a simple "face value" question the answer is no. Gravity refers to the attraction between two masses. Inertia is the property of a mass to require a force to change its state of motion. It turns out that gravitational mass and inertial mass are, as best we can tell, always directly proportional. But I have a feeling your question was asked with some other idea in mind? Ken From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 21:47:37 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA23918; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:46:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:46:42 -0700 Message-ID: <39D2CCAC.C5247B89@icx.net> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 00:44:28 -0400 From: Stephen Brummitt Organization: D E V X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: gravity inertia? References: <001701c028d0$13c59b80$7a736bc6@compaq> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Yo7l71.0.dr5.oqiqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16957 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Ed, The simple answer is NO, 'gravity' and 'inertia' are not the same. Though nothing is completely still in the universe; two masses, which are moving on a specific collision path, will both divert their trajectory to collide sooner than one would predict, if the only factor which governed their paths were inertia. Gravity emanate from the attractive forces of the atoms in their mass; and their paths curve to meet each other because of gravity. They GRAVITATE toward one another. That's where the word came from. Stephen Brummitt __________________________________________________________ > edward webber wrote: > > are gravity and inertia the same thing? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 27 23:48:38 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA00976; Wed, 27 Sep 2000 23:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 23:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002401c02917$a8c8ea60$76736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <64.6ea6694.270425c7@aol.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: gravity inertia? Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 23:45:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"AIagG1.0.4F.vbkqv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16958 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com what idea do you think it is that i have in mind ken? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: gravity inertia? > In a message dated 9/27/00 4:00:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, coronav@wcn.net > writes: > > > are gravity and inertia the same thing? > > If this is a simple "face value" question the answer is no. Gravity refers > to the attraction between two masses. Inertia is the property of a mass to > require a force to change its state of motion. > It turns out that gravitational mass and inertial mass are, as best we > can tell, always directly proportional. > But I have a feeling your question was asked with some other idea in mind? > > > Ken > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 04:39:44 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA04744; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 04:38:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 04:38:07 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:37:25 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.81.65 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ie_D12.0.u91.Vsoqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16959 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Sine Wave - Help! Dear All, Wondered if anyone could be of assistance here. I'm looking for a sine wave generator, 10Hz upwards, with a decent degree of power (say 200 watts). Can anyone offer any sources for a purchase like this, or perhaps have any old equipment they would be will ing to sell? Many thanks, James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 05:12:07 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA15138; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 05:11:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 05:11:49 -0700 Message-ID: <20000928121115.5527.qmail@web4402.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 05:11:15 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"cWHq2.0.Ni3.5Mpqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16960 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Multiple Wave Oscillation Mpeg In a certain rehashing of facts the following is noted. MWO stands for Multiple Wave Oscillations. The 1st connotation here from the process is that every inductor receives a vibration From the emittor related to its own geometry and self resonant frequency. The only tested emittor I have made is an extraordinarily long length of 23 gauge wire made in about 2 coils of 56 henry inductance, each coil containing 20,000 winds of 1000 ohms, each coil being 9 miles for a total of 18 miles in figure 8 tank circuit, named the BRS tank circuit. This circuit represents an inversion of normal electrical models where the short between the midpoints of two 180 phased inputs in series resonances containing maximum amperage input then becomes reduced to the value of q squared times less input amperage by this central short between resonances. This central short changes the two series resonances into one parallel resonance in the figure 8 BRS tank circuit. If this short is replaced by a small arc gap a high frequency BRS oscillation can take place. It is that oscillation that produces the MWO wave effect of vibrating each inductor at a different frequency because the length of the wire itself as a transmission line, and the coil as the EM source, necessarily must be a frequency so low, that the inductors are only registering a higher harmonic of that oscillation, or that could be a sensible explanation from one standpoint. The second more difficult bridge to cross is that of the understanding that these MWO forms are exclusively viewed by scope observation to begin with, and the scope can easily give erroneous information. Indeed anyone having inadequate knowledge of scope idiosyncrasies can quickly make an ass of himself, provided he takes the opportunity. I can easily take the opportunity here to say that while others may discount nonsensical scope observations, I give them as much credibility as can be mentally managed.{I have detailed more errors of this category under similar name at my messageboard} With scope work we cannot blandly assume that one slice of time tells the whole picture. That may work with simple 120 BPS tesla coils, but that may not be what produces a MWO. In fact the words Multiple Wave Oscillation do have several connotations. The first of these, or the last is the fact that when we view these oscillations, they are not the same from each sweep to sweep. To show this activity in concert with time I have put 13 of these scope readings together in time as individually viewed simultaneous jpegs, from 2.50 secs to 2.90 secs, with the average of .03 seconds sample rate time available on a mpeg video made from the process shown at http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/triple.html These 13 jpegs can be viewed side by side at teslafy account at driveway.com as gefeveqy password at argon mpeg file. These represent a .4 second total slice of time from that mpeg file, made in 13 takes taken from the 0.1 ms/div sweep rate on the first half of the 10 sec mpeg, which is also switched to 0.2 ms/div halfway through the mpeg to show the difference in observation. The neon file also shows jpeg's of sweep rates of 2 and 1 ms/div from the same process for a comparison of activity of the same process at a lower sweep rate, and also that at 5us/div, a very fast sweep rate. Sincerely HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 05:20:02 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA17887; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 05:19:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 05:19:44 -0700 Message-ID: <00ca01c02947$6ab77a40$8002a8c0@americanengr.com> From: "Sam Garza" To: References: <4.2.0.58.19990220215248.00989d10@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <008301c021f4$2eeb8e20$75736bc6@compaq> <003801c02211$7f7c12c0$153dee3f@default> <000801c02213$e96afdc0$75736bc6@compaq> <003f01c0221b$2a851500$233dee3f@default> <004701c02275$db2c3780$7273 6bc6@compaq> Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:27:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"2HpNv1.0.ON4.VTpqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16961 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Well I for one intend on getting this info out in the next few years. My intention is instead of breakthroughs to use steady improvement toward capability. I have heard of many and have watched the movie Tucker. I have learned from their mistakes and the conclusion is to iterate toward capability instead of suddenly jumping full tilt into my capability. I can use water as a fuel but I want to stay alive so I will steadily advance toward that end. Like we have the Honda Insight which can get 70 mpg. So I will deliver 80 then 90 then 100 etc. Get the picture. But I am not waiting on anyone for function. The Aircycle is already capable of Land and Water and it will have Air capability by 2002. ----- Original Message ----- From: edward webber To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > that is very admirable nick. what about the bigger kids like us adults that > are living now and i want to make a point here nick and i do not want to > sound like i am putting you down but it is this attitude that everyone or > most everyone in the alternate sci commumity appear to have of "oh well it > wont happen in our life time". this is why i have been getting mad in here > lately because we got people in here and on other forums or groups who seem > to have this attitude maybe of oh not in our life time but 70 to 100's of > years from now. well yah at this rate it probably will be that long with > this approach they have to freenrgy, anti-gravity that makes it look to me > as it just is a hobby to them. it is not a hobby to me. i am very serious > about and i hope that i am not the onlyperson who wants it within my > lifetime maybe before i turn 40-50. and i think that all of us could have > this aircar propulsion with in 10 years if we stopped this tendancy of going > off on these tangents of "oh no that idea wont work but mine will" and so > they are like the person that judges a book from its cover because think > they have been there and done that and they are not much different the very > skeptical and scoffing narrow minded physicist who is set in his ways and > devoted or enslaved by his own ignorance and i am not like that. i am opened > minded and not like alot of people i have met online that seem to be so > pessimistic and negative. if we changed our attitude maybe important and > huge breakthroughs might occur to advance our knowledge greatly. people > like michio kaku and other very classicaly trained skeptics of alt science > are people i really do not trust because if i had taken kaku up in some ag > vehicle, aircar, gravity car that had been working just right he would still > maybe doubt it or atleast he and so many other classically or conventionally > trained and mainstream scientists will have to go back and re write > evertying and it will take years to do that and untill then the powers that > be will more than likely ground the ag vehicle because of that or find some > excuse to ground it. i think one of the reasons would be economic because > the airline industry would be the first industry being hit by the ecomonic > impact of the gravity or aircar. just think of hundreds of pilots, mechanics > and other employees of airlines who would be out of work because more and > more people, after the aircar is then introduced, will learn that it is so > much cheaper and easier jumping into their ag suv, or minivan , auto and > going to their destination than hassling with the airliners. i think that > what i am trying to say her is that it is like walking on hot coal and or > laying down on a bed of nails and not getting injured because we attune our > minds or trick our minds into not being hurt. i see it the same with this > quest for gravity control or free nrg. we need to be more positive about it > and stop thinking to ourselves that "it will not be for hundreds of years > untill we discover it and develop or advance it" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nick Reiter" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 2:22 AM > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "edward webber" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > > > > no i have none and i wish i had and yes i believe there are many that > have > > > developed in in secret but are not willing to share yet maybe because > they > > > cannot get a patent and want one so they can be a tycoon and wealthy and > > or > > > they are afraid of if they do come out with it they are gonna be > > discredited > > > and or jailed or shot dead. the list goes on. i think they should just > > > release what they have annonymousely but that is a tall order and too > much > > > to ask maybe. what do you think? > > > > ************ I agree. And it is how I have conducted my own experiments. > > I work at my day job in as honorable a capacity as I can. I earn my daily > > bread that way, a decent salary, and it keeps the kids fed and the spouse > > happy. I have no aspirations to get rich from antigravity. I may not be > > the one to make the gravity breakthrough, but the little experiments along > > the way that give some occasional hopeful results, I share with my fellow > > scientists. I want my kids and grand kids to be able to get off this rock > > in a quick and easy way if they have to. Thats payment enough. > > > > NR > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 05:53:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA27894; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 05:52:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 05:52:35 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:02:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine Message-ID: <20000928.085003.297.2.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4-38 Resent-Message-ID: <"1W5jI1.0.ep6.Iypqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16962 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I saw it last night in a popular mechanics too. Dave On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:24:40 -0700 "edward webber" writes: > marcus i thought it was scientific american. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marcus Cole" > To: ; > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 2:46 PM > Subject: [FG]: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > I've just received my copy of Popular Mechanics(Volume 177, No 10) > in it, > > on page 40-42 > > there is this article about a new way to tame gravity by using > what the > > laboratory of > > Huntsville, Ala., describres as a 12-in.-dia. high temperature > > superconductor disc(HTSD) > > "When the force-field machine is complete, a bowling ball placed > anywhere > > above this disc, > > which resembles a clutch plate, will stay exactly where you left > it." > > > > Maybe another way to achieve Anti-Gravity? Let me know what you > think of > this, > > Marcus > > > > The great tragedy of science - the slaying of a beautiful > hypothesis by an > > ugly fact. - T H Huxley (English scientist, 1887-1975) > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 06:21:03 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA03851; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 06:20:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 06:20:11 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000928081058.00969650@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:20:15 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine In-Reply-To: <003f01c028e2$7e8f14c0$76736bc6@compaq> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000926173316.00b26370@mail.endirect.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"UI0Kw1.0.0y.AMqqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16963 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is based on a laboratory accident (Swedish I think) It is remarkably important because it represents a direct violation of conservation. And it appears to be easily repeatable. Although it is not an "Energy machine" If you could remove gravity from one side of a vertically mounted the gravity on the other side would continuously unbalance the disk and cause it to rotate. Skeptics hold this principal design to be the reason that antigravity or even attenuation of gravity is impossible.... Simply because it could be made to violate the faithfully held Conservation of Energy. If this truly works I can publish.... At 05:24 PM 9/27/00 -0700, you wrote: >marcus i thought it was scientific american. > > > > > I've just received my copy of Popular Mechanics(Volume 177, No 10) in it, > > on page 40-42 > > there is this article about a new way to tame gravity by using what the > > laboratory of > > Huntsville, Ala., describres as a 12-in.-dia. high temperature > > superconductor disc(HTSD) > > "When the force-field machine is complete, a bowling ball placed anywhere > > above this disc, > > which resembles a clutch plate, will stay exactly where you left it." > > > > Maybe another way to achieve Anti-Gravity? Let me know what you think of >this, > > Marcus > > > > The great tragedy of science - the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an > > ugly fact. - T H Huxley (English scientist, 1887-1975) > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 06:24:58 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA06280; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 06:24:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 06:24:33 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000928082353.0096b6c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:24:39 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine In-Reply-To: <20000928.085003.297.2.dave.tingley@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qHsSL3.0.wX1.GQqqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16964 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Would that be the september issue ??  I do not subscribe and I need to have a hardcopy of this...


At 08:02 AM 9/28/00 -0400, you wrote:
I saw it last night in a popular mechanics too.

Dave
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:24:40 -0700 "edward webber" <coronav@wcn.net>
writes:
> marcus i thought it was scientific american.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marcus Cole" <marcuscole@endirect.qc.ca>
> To: <jlnlabs@egroups.com>; <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 2:46 PM
> Subject: [FG]: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine
>
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I've just received my copy of Popular Mechanics(Volume 177, No 10)
>  in it,
> > on page 40-42
> > there is this article about a new way to tame gravity by using
> what the
> > laboratory of
> > Huntsville, Ala., describres as a 12-in.-dia. high temperature
> > superconductor disc(HTSD)
> > "When the force-field machine is complete, a bowling ball placed
> anywhere
> > above this disc,
> > which resembles a clutch plate, will stay exactly where you left
> it."
> >
> > Maybe another way to achieve Anti-Gravity?  Let me know what you
> think of
> this,
> > Marcus
> >
> > The great tragedy of science - the slaying of a beautiful
> hypothesis by an
> > ugly fact. - T H Huxley (English scientist, 1887-1975)
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 06:26:33 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA06605; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 06:25:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 06:25:37 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 06:22:49 -0700 From: "Rick Dunn" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_E8B00F2C.1B7A13B6" Resent-Message-ID: <"ydEr42.0.4d1.HRqqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16965 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_E8B00F2C.1B7A13B6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What is the Aircycle? Rick >>> sgarza@americanengr.com 09/28/00 05:19AM >>> Well I for one intend on getting this info out in the next few years. My intention is instead of breakthroughs to use steady improvement toward capability. I have heard of many and have watched the movie Tucker. I have learned from their mistakes and the conclusion is to iterate toward capability instead of suddenly jumping full tilt into my capability. I can use water as a fuel but I want to stay alive so I will steadily advance toward that end. Like we have the Honda Insight which can get 70 mpg. So I will deliver 80 then 90 then 100 etc. Get the picture. But I am not = waiting on anyone for function. The Aircycle is already capable of Land and Water and it will have Air capability by 2002. ----- Original Message ----- From: edward webber To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > that is very admirable nick. what about the bigger kids like us adults that > are living now and i want to make a point here nick and i do not want to > sound like i am putting you down but it is this attitude that everyone = or > most everyone in the alternate sci commumity appear to have of "oh well = it > wont happen in our life time". this is why i have been getting mad in = here > lately because we got people in here and on other forums or groups who seem > to have this attitude maybe of oh not in our life time but 70 to 100's = of > years from now. well yah at this rate it probably will be that long with > this approach they have to freenrgy, anti-gravity that makes it look to = me > as it just is a hobby to them. it is not a hobby to me. i am very = serious > about and i hope that i am not the onlyperson who wants it within my > lifetime maybe before i turn 40-50. and i think that all of us could = have > this aircar propulsion with in 10 years if we stopped this tendancy of going > off on these tangents of "oh no that idea wont work but mine will" and = so > they are like the person that judges a book from its cover because think > they have been there and done that and they are not much different the very > skeptical and scoffing narrow minded physicist who is set in his ways = and > devoted or enslaved by his own ignorance and i am not like that. i am opened > minded and not like alot of people i have met online that seem to be so > pessimistic and negative. if we changed our attitude maybe important and > huge breakthroughs might occur to advance our knowledge greatly. people > like michio kaku and other very classicaly trained skeptics of alt = science > are people i really do not trust because if i had taken kaku up in some ag > vehicle, aircar, gravity car that had been working just right he would still > maybe doubt it or atleast he and so many other classically or conventionally > trained and mainstream scientists will have to go back and re write > evertying and it will take years to do that and untill then the powers that > be will more than likely ground the ag vehicle because of that or find some > excuse to ground it. i think one of the reasons would be economic = because > the airline industry would be the first industry being hit by the = ecomonic > impact of the gravity or aircar. just think of hundreds of pilots, mechanics > and other employees of airlines who would be out of work because more = and > more people, after the aircar is then introduced, will learn that it is = so > much cheaper and easier jumping into their ag suv, or minivan , auto and > going to their destination than hassling with the airliners. i think = that > what i am trying to say her is that it is like walking on hot coal and = or > laying down on a bed of nails and not getting injured because we attune our > minds or trick our minds into not being hurt. i see it the same with = this > quest for gravity control or free nrg. we need to be more positive about it > and stop thinking to ourselves that "it will not be for hundreds of = years > untill we discover it and develop or advance it" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nick Reiter" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 2:22 AM > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "edward webber" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > > > > no i have none and i wish i had and yes i believe there are many = that > have > > > developed in in secret but are not willing to share yet maybe = because > they > > > cannot get a patent and want one so they can be a tycoon and wealthy and > > or > > > they are afraid of if they do come out with it they are gonna be > > discredited > > > and or jailed or shot dead. the list goes on. i think they should = just > > > release what they have annonymousely but that is a tall order and = too > much > > > to ask maybe. what do you think? > > > > ************ I agree. And it is how I have conducted my own experiments. > > I work at my day job in as honorable a capacity as I can. I earn my daily > > bread that way, a decent salary, and it keeps the kids fed and the spouse > > happy. I have no aspirations to get rich from antigravity. I may not be > > the one to make the gravity breakthrough, but the little experiments along > > the way that give some occasional hopeful results, I share with my fellow > > scientists. I want my kids and grand kids to be able to get off this rock > > in a quick and easy way if they have to. Thats payment enough. > > > > NR > > > > --=_E8B00F2C.1B7A13B6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: HTML
What is the Aircycle?
 
Rick

>>> sgarza@americanengr.com= =20 09/28/00 05:19AM >>>
Well I for one intend on getting this = info out=20 in the next few years. My
intention is instead of breakthroughs to use = steady=20 improvement toward
capability. I have heard of many and have watched = the=20 movie Tucker. I have
learned from their mistakes and the conclusion is = to=20 iterate toward
capability instead of suddenly jumping full tilt into = my=20 capability. I can
use water as a fuel but I want to stay alive so I = will=20 steadily advance
toward that end. Like we have the Honda Insight which = can=20 get 70 mpg. So I
will deliver 80 then 90 then 100 etc. Get the picture. = But I=20 am not waiting
on anyone for function. The Aircycle is already capable = of=20 Land and Water
and it  will have Air capability by=20 2002.


----- Original Message -----
From: edward webber=20 <coronav@wcn.net>
To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: = Tuesday,=20 September 19, 2000 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity=20 craft


> that is very admirable nick. what about the bigger = kids=20 like us adults
that
> are living now and i want to make a point = here=20 nick and i do not want to
> sound like i am putting you down but it = is=20 this attitude that everyone or
> most everyone in the alternate = sci=20 commumity appear to have of "oh well it
> wont happen in our = life=20 time". this is why i have been getting mad in here
> lately = because=20 we got people in here and on other forums or groups who
seem
> to = have=20 this attitude maybe of oh not in our life time but 70 to 100's of
> = years=20 from now. well yah at this rate it probably will be that long with
> = this=20 approach they have to freenrgy, anti-gravity that makes it look to = me
> as=20 it just is a hobby to them. it is not a hobby to me. i am very serious
&= gt;=20 about and i hope that i am not the onlyperson who wants it within = my
>=20 lifetime maybe before i turn 40-50. and i think that all of us could=20 have
> this aircar propulsion with in 10 years if we stopped this = tendancy=20 of
going
> off on these tangents of "oh no that idea wont = work but=20 mine will" and so
> they are like the person that judges a book = from=20 its cover because think
> they have been there and done that and = they are=20 not much different the
very
> skeptical and scoffing narrow = minded=20 physicist who is set in his ways and
> devoted or enslaved by his = own=20 ignorance and i am not like that. i am
opened
> minded and not = like=20 alot of people i have met online that seem to be so
> pessimistic = and=20 negative. if we changed our attitude maybe important and
> huge=20 breakthroughs might occur to advance our knowledge greatly.  = people
>=20 like michio kaku and other very classicaly trained skeptics of alt=20 science
> are people  i really do not trust because if i had = taken=20 kaku up in some
ag
> vehicle, aircar, gravity car that had been = working=20 just right he would
still
> maybe doubt it or atleast he and so = many=20 other classically or
conventionally
> trained and mainstream = scientists=20 will have to go back and re write
> evertying and it will take years = to do=20 that and untill then the powers
that
> be will more than likely = ground=20 the ag vehicle because of that or find
some
> excuse to ground = it. i=20 think one of the reasons would be economic because
> the airline = industry=20 would be the first industry being hit by the ecomonic
> impact of = the=20 gravity or aircar. just think of hundreds of pilots,
mechanics
> = and=20 other employees of airlines who would be out of work because more = and
>=20 more people, after the aircar is then introduced, will learn that it is=20 so
> much cheaper and easier jumping into their ag suv, or minivan , = auto=20 and
> going to their destination than hassling with the airliners. i = think=20 that
> what i am trying to say her is that it is like walking on hot = coal=20 and or
> laying down on a bed of nails and not getting injured = because we=20 attune
our
> minds or trick our minds into not being hurt.  = i see=20 it the same with this
> quest for gravity control or free nrg. we = need to=20 be more positive about
it
> and stop thinking to ourselves = that=20 "it will not be for hundreds of years
> untill we discover it = and=20 develop or advance it"
> ----- Original Message -----
> = From:=20 "Nick Reiter" <reit@ezworks.net>
> To:=20 <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 = 2:22=20 AM
> Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity=20 craft
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message=20 -----
> > From: "edward webber"=20 <coronav@wcn.net>
> > To: <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
&g= t;=20 > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:30 AM
> > Subject: Re: = [FG]:=20 practical antigravity craft
> >
> >
> > > no = i=20 have none and i wish i had and yes i believe there are many that
>=20= have
> > > developed in in secret but are not willing to share = yet=20 maybe because
> they
> > > cannot get a patent and want = one so=20 they can be a tycoon and wealthy
and
> > or
> > > = they=20 are afraid of if they do come out with it they are gonna be
> = >=20 discredited
> > > and or jailed or shot dead. the list goes = on. i=20 think they should just
> > > release what they have annonymouse= ly=20 but that is a tall order and too
> much
> > > to ask = maybe.=20 what do you think?
> >
> > ************  I = agree. =20 And it is how I have conducted my own
experiments.
> > I work = at my=20 day job in as honorable a capacity as I can.  I earn my
daily
&g= t;=20 > bread that way, a decent salary, and it keeps the kids fed and=20 the
spouse
> > happy.  I have no aspirations to get rich = from=20 antigravity.  I may not
be
> > the one to make the = gravity=20 breakthrough, but the little experiments
along
> > the way = that give=20 some occasional hopeful results, I share with my
fellow
> >=20 scientists.  I want my kids and grand kids to be able to get off=20 this
rock
> > in a quick and easy way if they have to.  = Thats=20 payment enough.
> >
> > NR
>=20 >
>
>

--=_E8B00F2C.1B7A13B6-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 07:04:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA21747; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 07:02:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 07:02:26 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:53:09 -0400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine Message-ID: <20000928.095310.297.4.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_799c.11d5.6eee X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-6,10-13,15,17-62,64-69,71-32767 Resent-Message-ID: <"OY4A72.0.iJ5.nzqqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16966 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_799c.11d5.6eee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think it was, I don't subscribe either, I picked it up and was glancing through it while waiting in line at the hardware store. So if you grab the current issue that is on the shelf at any bookstore that should be the one. Dave On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:24:39 -0500 Charles Ford writes: Would that be the september issue ?? I do not subscribe and I need to have a hardcopy of this... At 08:02 AM 9/28/00 -0400, you wrote: I saw it last night in a popular mechanics too. Dave On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:24:40 -0700 "edward webber" writes: > marcus i thought it was scientific american. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marcus Cole" > To: ; > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 2:46 PM > Subject: [FG]: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > I've just received my copy of Popular Mechanics(Volume 177, No 10) > in it, > > on page 40-42 > > there is this article about a new way to tame gravity by using > what the > > laboratory of > > Huntsville, Ala., describres as a 12-in.-dia. high temperature > > superconductor disc(HTSD) > > "When the force-field machine is complete, a bowling ball placed > anywhere > > above this disc, > > which resembles a clutch plate, will stay exactly where you left > it." > > > > Maybe another way to achieve Anti-Gravity? Let me know what you > think of > this, > > Marcus > > > > The great tragedy of science - the slaying of a beautiful > hypothesis by an > > ugly fact. - T H Huxley (English scientist, 1887-1975) > > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ============================================ dave.tingley@juno.com http://dave_tingley.tripod.com The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 ----__JNP_000_799c.11d5.6eee Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think it was, I don't subscribe either, I picked it up and was = glancing=20 through it while waiting in line at the hardware store. So if you grab the= =20 current issue that is on the shelf at any bookstore that should be the=20 one.
 
Dave
 
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:24:39 -0500 Charles Ford <cjford1@yahoo.com&= gt;=20 writes:
Would that be the september issue ??  I do not=20 subscribe and I need to have a hardcopy of this...


At 08:02 AM= =20 9/28/00 -0400, you wrote:

I saw it last night in a popular mechanics= too.=20

Dave
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:24:40 -0700 "edward webber"=20 <coronav@wcn.net>
writes:
> marcus i thought it was=20 scientific american.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:= =20 "Marcus Cole" <marcuscole@endirect.qc.ca>
> To:=20 <jlnlabs@egroups.com>; <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
> Sent:= =20 Tuesday, September 26, 2000 2:46 PM
> Subject: [FG]: Taming = Gravity=20 with a force-field machine
>
>
> > Hello=20 everyone,
> >
> > I've just received my copy of = Popular=20 Mechanics(Volume 177, No 10)
>  in it,
> > on page= =20 40-42
> > there is this article about a new way to tame = gravity by=20 using
> what the
> > laboratory of
> > = Huntsville,=20 Ala., describres as a 12-in.-dia. high temperature
> >=20 superconductor disc(HTSD)
> > "When the force-field machine is= =20 complete, a bowling ball placed
> anywhere
> > above = this=20 disc,
> > which resembles a clutch plate, will stay exactly = where=20 you left
> it."
> >
> > Maybe another way to=20 achieve Anti-Gravity?  Let me know what you
> think of
&= gt;=20 this,
> > Marcus
> >
> > The great tragedy = of=20 science - the slaying of a beautiful
> hypothesis by an
> = >=20 ugly fact. - T H Huxley (English scientist, 1887-1975)
> >
= >=20
>=20
_____________________________________________________= ____=20 Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com= =20
 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
dave.tingley@juno.com
http://dave_tingley.tripod.= com
The=20 heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the = left.=20 Ecclesiastes 10:2
----__JNP_000_799c.11d5.6eee-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 08:27:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA22801; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:26:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:26:43 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01c02960$efb500f0$c57b3b8e@robone> From: "Rob Polley" To: , References: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:29:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"knamf1.0.6a5.pCsqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16967 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Sine Wave - Help! Hi James, One solution that might work well for you would be an Exar 2206 function generator feeding an an audio amplifier of the power range you have in mind. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Owen Batchelor" To: Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 11:37 AM Subject: [FG]: Sine Wave - Help! > Dear All, > > Wondered if anyone could be of assistance here. I'm looking for a sine wave generator, 10Hz upwards, with a decent degree of power (say 200 watts). Can anyone offer any sources for a purchase like this, or perhaps have any old equipment they would be willing to sell? > > Many thanks, > > James O. Batchelor > > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 12:11:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02850; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: 28 Sep 2000 21:06:00 +0100 From: freenrg_list@sigma.sax.de (Andreas Hecht) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <7mhgfwOuL$B@sigma.sax.de> In-Reply-To: <56.129e3dd.2703adc8@aol.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Tribo Gravity Artifacts X-Mailer: CrossPoint v3.12d R/B9504 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Organization: private site in germany; member of SaxNet e.V. Resent-Message-ID: <"VzUtn2.0.Ki.LUvqv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16968 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com As Keasy wrote: > my results, I don't think. If you take a container and > heat it you will measure an apparent weight loss. If you do > exactly the same thing but place the container in an * Air > Tight* larger container which was not heated, you will measure > exactly the same weight loss (from the weight of the two). I > don't see how a "thermal draft" can explain this(?) > Any Comments? One Word: hot-air ballon :) But apart from this, it seems nobody have read my posting few days ago. Short abstract: N.A.Kozyrev has carried out some experiments in the late sixties in which he has exposed different compact bodies to vibrations. He observed a temporary (up to 30 seconds) weight loss. The time was dependent on the density of the material. regards, Andreas -- mail: @home: ahecht@sigma.sax.de @work: ahecht@lst-ost.db.de ************************************************************************ Visit the Borderlands of Science! http://www.borderlands.de/ ************************************************************************ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 12:35:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19624; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:34:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:34:31 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000928142849.00958570@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:34:31 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Sine Wave - Help! In-Reply-To: <001d01c02960$efb500f0$c57b3b8e@robone> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"PFz2s1.0.Xo4.6rvqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16969 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I had gone looking for something like this back in.... say.... 91.... Don't remember why.... I ended up having to design the thing and build it myself... I would ship the design but its property of Tandy Electronics Design (if there still called that) Any way.... If you are unable to find equipment or it is prohibitively expensive I will sit down re-create the thing. At 09:29 AM 9/28/00 -0600, you wrote: >Hi James, > >One solution that might work well for you would be an Exar 2206 function >generator feeding an an audio amplifier of the power range you have in mind. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "James Owen Batchelor" >To: >Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 11:37 AM >Subject: [FG]: Sine Wave - Help! > > > > Dear All, > > > > Wondered if anyone could be of assistance here. I'm looking for a sine >wave generator, 10Hz upwards, with a decent degree of power (say 200 watts). >Can anyone offer any sources for a purchase like this, or perhaps have any >old equipment they would be willing to sell? > > > > Many thanks, > > > > James O. Batchelor > > > > > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com > > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 12:57:34 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA15961; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000928081058.00969650@pop.mail.yahoo.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000926173316.00b26370@mail.endirect.qc.ca> <4.2.0.58.20000928081058.00969650@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:56:06 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"zADyN1.0.Gv3.n9wqv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16970 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Charles - At 8:20 AM -0500 9/28/00, Charles Ford wrote: >This is based on a laboratory accident (Swedish I think) Finland. Russian scientist. >It is remarkably important because it represents a direct violation >of conservation. Why? The details of the effect are so sketchy that there's no way to know for sure if COE is being violated. Certainly it might appear to be, but the details which would clear this up aren't available. >And it appears to be easily repeatable. NOT! No one has been able to repeat it. That's the most unfortunate thing. I hope NASA has some luck. But so far... - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 13:22:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA23293; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004d01c02989$3a630480$78736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <20000928.095310.297.4.dave.tingley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:18:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0042_01C0294E.866C3440" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"rTpRP.0.bh5.EWwqv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16971 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C0294E.866C3440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable so the bowling ball just floats there over the disc in zero gravity? why = a bowling ball and why not other lighter and heavier objects? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: dave.tingley@juno.com=20 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine I think it was, I don't subscribe either, I picked it up and was = glancing through it while waiting in line at the hardware store. So if = you grab the current issue that is on the shelf at any bookstore that = should be the one. Dave On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:24:39 -0500 Charles Ford = writes: Would that be the september issue ?? I do not subscribe and I need = to have a hardcopy of this... At 08:02 AM 9/28/00 -0400, you wrote: I saw it last night in a popular mechanics too.=20 Dave On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:24:40 -0700 "edward webber" = writes: > marcus i thought it was scientific american. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marcus Cole" > To: ; > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 2:46 PM > Subject: [FG]: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine >=20 >=20 > > Hello everyone, > > > > I've just received my copy of Popular Mechanics(Volume 177, No = 10)=20 > in it, > > on page 40-42 > > there is this article about a new way to tame gravity by using = > what the > > laboratory of > > Huntsville, Ala., describres as a 12-in.-dia. high temperature > > superconductor disc(HTSD) > > "When the force-field machine is complete, a bowling ball = placed=20 > anywhere > > above this disc, > > which resembles a clutch plate, will stay exactly where you = left=20 > it." > > > > Maybe another way to achieve Anti-Gravity? Let me know what = you=20 > think of > this, > > Marcus > > > > The great tragedy of science - the slaying of a beautiful=20 > hypothesis by an > > ugly fact. - T H Huxley (English scientist, 1887-1975) > > >=20 >=20 _________________________________________________________ Do You = Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com=20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D dave.tingley@juno.com http://dave_tingley.tripod.com The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool = to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C0294E.866C3440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
so the bowling ball just floats there over the disc = in zero=20 gravity? why a bowling ball and why not other lighter and heavier=20 objects?
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 dave.tingley@juno.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, = 2000 6:53=20 AM
Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming = Gravity=20 with a force-field machine

I think it was, I don't subscribe either, I picked it up and was = glancing=20 through it while waiting in line at the hardware store. So if you grab = the=20 current issue that is on the shelf at any bookstore that should be the = one.
 
Dave
 
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:24:39 -0500 Charles Ford <cjford1@yahoo.com> = writes:
Would that be the september issue ??  I do = not=20 subscribe and I need to have a hardcopy of this...


At = 08:02 AM=20 9/28/00 -0400, you wrote:

I saw it last night in a popular = mechanics=20 too.

Dave
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:24:40 -0700 "edward = webber"=20 <coronav@wcn.net>
writes:
> marcus i thought it was = scientific american.
> ----- Original Message -----
> = From:=20 "Marcus Cole" <marcuscole@endirect.qc.ca>
> To:=20 <jlnlabs@egroups.com>; <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
> = Sent:=20 Tuesday, September 26, 2000 2:46 PM
> Subject: [FG]: Taming = Gravity=20 with a force-field machine
>
>
> > Hello=20 everyone,
> >
> > I've just received my copy of = Popular=20 Mechanics(Volume 177, No 10)
>  in it,
> > on = page=20 40-42
> > there is this article about a new way to tame = gravity=20 by using
> what the
> > laboratory of
> > = Huntsville, Ala., describres as a 12-in.-dia. high = temperature
>=20 > superconductor disc(HTSD)
> > "When the force-field = machine=20 is complete, a bowling ball placed
> anywhere
> > = above=20 this disc,
> > which resembles a clutch plate, will stay = exactly=20 where you left
> it."
> >
> > Maybe = another way=20 to achieve Anti-Gravity?  Let me know what you
> think = of
> this,
> > Marcus
> >
> > The = great=20 tragedy of science - the slaying of a beautiful
> = hypothesis by=20 an
> > ugly fact. - T H Huxley (English scientist,=20 1887-1975)
> >
>
>=20 =
_____________________________________________________= ____=20 Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at = http://mail.yahoo.com=20 =
 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
dave.tingley@juno.com
http://dave_tingley.tripod= .com
The=20 heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to = the=20 left. Ecclesiastes 10:2
------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C0294E.866C3440-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 13:31:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26266; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00c101c0298a$71fcea40$78736bc6@compaq> From: "edward webber" To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000926173316.00b26370@mail.endirect.qc.ca><4.2.0.58.20000928081058.00969650@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:26:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"XejAc.0.EQ6.Zewqv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16972 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com are you talking of the superconductor experiemnts with gravity in tampere finland by eugene podletnov? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Monteverde" To: Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine > Charles - > > At 8:20 AM -0500 9/28/00, Charles Ford wrote: > > >This is based on a laboratory accident (Swedish I think) > > Finland. Russian scientist. > > >It is remarkably important because it represents a direct violation > >of conservation. > > Why? The details of the effect are so sketchy that there's no way to > know for sure if COE is being violated. Certainly it might appear to > be, but the details which would clear this up aren't available. > > >And it appears to be easily repeatable. > > NOT! No one has been able to repeat it. That's the most unfortunate > thing. I hope NASA has some luck. But so far... > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 14:52:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA19870; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:52:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:52:02 -0700 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000928174756.00ad1f00@mail.endirect.qc.ca> X-Sender: marcuscole@mail.endirect.qc.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:48:06 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Marcus Cole Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"o0_0I.0.Ms4.2sxqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16973 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 09:24 00-09-28, you wrote: >Would that be the september issue ?? I do not subscribe and I need to >have a hardcopy of this... No, it is the October 2000 issue. To anyone who can't get this publication, i could type it in for you to read. Just let me know, Marcus "It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong." - Voltaire From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 15:25:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA28837; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:24:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:24:38 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.227.184] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:24:03 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2000 22:24:03.0768 (UTC) FILETIME=[CECDF380:01C0299A] Resent-Message-ID: <"2HQ8K1.0.R27.bKyqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16974 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com I too, would like to know more about this "aircycle"... Timothy... >What is the Aircycle? > >Rick > > >>> sgarza@americanengr.com 09/28/00 05:19AM >>> >Well I for one intend on getting this info out in the next few years. My >intention is instead of breakthroughs to use steady improvement toward >capability. I have heard of many and have watched the movie Tucker. I have >learned from their mistakes and the conclusion is to iterate toward >capability instead of suddenly jumping full tilt into my capability. I can >use water as a fuel but I want to stay alive so I will steadily advance >toward that end. Like we have the Honda Insight which can get 70 mpg. So I >will deliver 80 then 90 then 100 etc. Get the picture. But I am not waiting >on anyone for function. The Aircycle is already capable of Land and Water >and it will have Air capability by 2002. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: edward webber >To: >Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:11 PM >Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > that is very admirable nick. what about the bigger kids like us adults >that > > are living now and i want to make a point here nick and i do not want to > > sound like i am putting you down but it is this attitude that everyone >or > > most everyone in the alternate sci commumity appear to have of "oh well >it > > wont happen in our life time". this is why i have been getting mad in >here > > lately because we got people in here and on other forums or groups who >seem > > to have this attitude maybe of oh not in our life time but 70 to 100's >of > > years from now. well yah at this rate it probably will be that long with > > this approach they have to freenrgy, anti-gravity that makes it look to >me > > as it just is a hobby to them. it is not a hobby to me. i am very >serious > > about and i hope that i am not the onlyperson who wants it within my > > lifetime maybe before i turn 40-50. and i think that all of us could >have > > this aircar propulsion with in 10 years if we stopped this tendancy of >going > > off on these tangents of "oh no that idea wont work but mine will" and >so > > they are like the person that judges a book from its cover because think > > they have been there and done that and they are not much different the >very > > skeptical and scoffing narrow minded physicist who is set in his ways >and > > devoted or enslaved by his own ignorance and i am not like that. i am >opened > > minded and not like alot of people i have met online that seem to be so > > pessimistic and negative. if we changed our attitude maybe important and > > huge breakthroughs might occur to advance our knowledge greatly. people > > like michio kaku and other very classicaly trained skeptics of alt >science > > are people i really do not trust because if i had taken kaku up in some >ag > > vehicle, aircar, gravity car that had been working just right he would >still > > maybe doubt it or atleast he and so many other classically or >conventionally > > trained and mainstream scientists will have to go back and re write > > evertying and it will take years to do that and untill then the powers >that > > be will more than likely ground the ag vehicle because of that or find >some > > excuse to ground it. i think one of the reasons would be economic >because > > the airline industry would be the first industry being hit by the >ecomonic > > impact of the gravity or aircar. just think of hundreds of pilots, >mechanics > > and other employees of airlines who would be out of work because more >and > > more people, after the aircar is then introduced, will learn that it is >so > > much cheaper and easier jumping into their ag suv, or minivan , auto and > > going to their destination than hassling with the airliners. i think >that > > what i am trying to say her is that it is like walking on hot coal and >or > > laying down on a bed of nails and not getting injured because we attune >our > > minds or trick our minds into not being hurt. i see it the same with >this > > quest for gravity control or free nrg. we need to be more positive about >it > > and stop thinking to ourselves that "it will not be for hundreds of >years > > untill we discover it and develop or advance it" > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Nick Reiter" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 2:22 AM > > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "edward webber" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: [FG]: practical antigravity craft > > > > > > > > > > no i have none and i wish i had and yes i believe there are many >that > > have > > > > developed in in secret but are not willing to share yet maybe >because > > they > > > > cannot get a patent and want one so they can be a tycoon and wealthy >and > > > or > > > > they are afraid of if they do come out with it they are gonna be > > > discredited > > > > and or jailed or shot dead. the list goes on. i think they should >just > > > > release what they have annonymousely but that is a tall order and >too > > much > > > > to ask maybe. what do you think? > > > > > > ************ I agree. And it is how I have conducted my own >experiments. > > > I work at my day job in as honorable a capacity as I can. I earn my >daily > > > bread that way, a decent salary, and it keeps the kids fed and the >spouse > > > happy. I have no aspirations to get rich from antigravity. I may not >be > > > the one to make the gravity breakthrough, but the little experiments >along > > > the way that give some occasional hopeful results, I share with my >fellow > > > scientists. I want my kids and grand kids to be able to get off this >rock > > > in a quick and easy way if they have to. Thats payment enough. > > > > > > NR > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 15:34:04 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA31528; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:33:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:33:30 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 16:46:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine Message-ID: <20000928.181520.395.0.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_7673.0c0a.4b43 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,9-12,14,16-23,27-30,32,34-78,79-32767 Resent-Message-ID: <"Wt1s81.0.Wi7.vSyqv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16975 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_7673.0c0a.4b43 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit probably because a bowling ball is something people associate with being a heavy non-metal object, so people would conclude from the example that they really have something and aren't just doing magnet tricks. Dave On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:18:00 -0700 "edward webber" writes: so the bowling ball just floats there over the disc in zero gravity? why a bowling ball and why not other lighter and heavier objects? ----- Original Message ----- From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine I think it was, I don't subscribe either, I picked it up and was glancing through it while waiting in line at the hardware store. So if you grab the current issue that is on the shelf at any bookstore that should be the one. Dave On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:24:39 -0500 Charles Ford writes: Would that be the september issue ?? I do not subscribe and I need to have a hardcopy of this... At 08:02 AM 9/28/00 -0400, you wrote: I saw it last night in a popular mechanics too. Dave On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:24:40 -0700 "edward webber" writes: > marcus i thought it was scientific american. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marcus Cole" > To: ; > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 2:46 PM > Subject: [FG]: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > I've just received my copy of Popular Mechanics(Volume 177, No 10) > in it, > > on page 40-42 > > there is this article about a new way to tame gravity by using > what the > > laboratory of > > Huntsville, Ala., describres as a 12-in.-dia. high temperature > > superconductor disc(HTSD) > > "When the force-field machine is complete, a bowling ball placed > anywhere > > above this disc, > > which resembles a clutch plate, will stay exactly where you left > it." > > > > Maybe another way to achieve Anti-Gravity? Let me know what you > think of > this, > > Marcus > > > > The great tragedy of science - the slaying of a beautiful > hypothesis by an > > ugly fact. - T H Huxley (English scientist, 1887-1975) > > > > ----__JNP_000_7673.0c0a.4b43 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
probably because a bowling ball is something people associate with = being a=20 heavy non-metal object, so people would conclude from the example that they= =20 really have something and aren't just doing magnet tricks.
 
Dave
 
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:18:00 -0700 "edward webber" <coronav@wcn.net= >=20 writes:
so the bowling ball just floats there over the disc = in zero=20 gravity? why a bowling ball and why not other lighter and heavier=20 objects?
----- Original Message -----
= From:=20 dave.tingley@juno.com
To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, = 2000 6:53=20 AM
Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming = Gravity=20 with a force-field machine

I think it was, I don't subscribe either, I picked it up and was=20 glancing through it while waiting in line at the hardware store. So if = you=20 grab the current issue that is on the shelf at any bookstore that = should be=20 the one.
 
Dave
 
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:24:39 -0500 Charles Ford <cjford1@yahoo.com> writes:
Would that be the september issue ??  I do = not=20 subscribe and I need to have a hardcopy of this...


At 08:= 02 AM=20 9/28/00 -0400, you wrote:

I saw it last night in a popular = mechanics=20 too.

Dave
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:24:40 -0700 "edward = webber"=20 <coronav@wcn.net>
writes:
> marcus i thought it was= =20 scientific american.
> ----- Original Message -----
> = From:=20 "Marcus Cole" <marcuscole@endirect.qc.ca>
> To:=20 <jlnlabs@egroups.com>; <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>
> = Sent:=20 Tuesday, September 26, 2000 2:46 PM
> Subject: [FG]: Taming=20 Gravity with a force-field machine
>
>
> > = Hello=20 everyone,
> >
> > I've just received my copy of=20 Popular Mechanics(Volume 177, No 10)
>  in it,
> = >=20 on page 40-42
> > there is this article about a new way to= tame=20 gravity by using
> what the
> > laboratory of
&= gt;=20 > Huntsville, Ala., describres as a 12-in.-dia. high=20 temperature
> > superconductor disc(HTSD)
> > "= When=20 the force-field machine is complete, a bowling ball placed
>= =20 anywhere
> > above this disc,
> > which resembles= a=20 clutch plate, will stay exactly where you left
> it."
>= ;=20 >
> > Maybe another way to achieve Anti-Gravity?  = Let=20 me know what you
> think of
> this,
> >=20 Marcus
> >
> > The great tragedy of science - the= =20 slaying of a beautiful
> hypothesis by an
> > ugly = fact.=20 - T H Huxley (English scientist, 1887-1975)
> >
>=20
>=20
----__JNP_000_7673.0c0a.4b43-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 15:50:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA02049; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:48:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Robin van Spaandonk To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Multiple Wave Oscillation Mpeg Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:47:23 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <20000928121115.5527.qmail@web4402.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20000928121115.5527.qmail@web4402.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id PAA01988 Resent-Message-ID: <"zqT4a1.0.sV.-gyqv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16976 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com In reply to harvey norris's message of Thu, 28 Sep 2000 05:11:15 -0700 (PDT): >In a certain rehashing of facts the following is >noted. >MWO stands for Multiple Wave Oscillations. [snip] Hi Harvey, Could the entire coil be acting as a poor quality resonant cavity, of shifting geometry? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk It's no good telling people to stop doing whatever they do to earn a living...you have to show them a better way. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 16:54:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA16227; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 16:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 16:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003901c029a3$d57e34c0$2f3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000926173316.00b26370@mail.endirect.qc.ca><4.2.0.58.20000928081058.00969650@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:28:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"oZpG1.0.Sz3.Edzqv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16977 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com OK, guys, this is what I know. I keep running into re-hashes of the discussion over the Tampere experiment... The original experiment was performed in Finland back in 1992 or 1993 I believe, by Eugene Podkletnov and a colleague. Pre-prints of the paper and other dissertations by Modanese, Li, and others are also available everywhere. Start right here on Bill's site on the Gravity page! Follow the links. NASA has been attempting a sort of low budget replication project in Huntsville, that has been on again off again for about a year now. The YBCO discs and plates were contracted by way of a phase I and phase II SBIR with a firm in Columbus Ohio. I periodically touch base with them, but NASA really tells them very little about the overall experiment progress. One gathers results have been negative so far. Dr. Podkletnov has been retained as a consultant, but is somewhat mercurial to work with I have been told. The piece about a bowling ball sounds like really poor sensationalist reporting / embellishment. They just aren't anywhere near that... Sort of makes you wonder why NASA goes to the trouble of the Huntsville replicatory project if there really are all of these higher tech "secret" antigravity projects... A cover? Or maybe there really are no "secret" projects after all... I don't pretend to know. Now get thee back to your own experiments! Thats where the breakthrough will come from! NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Monteverde" To: Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine > Charles - > > At 8:20 AM -0500 9/28/00, Charles Ford wrote: > > >This is based on a laboratory accident (Swedish I think) > > Finland. Russian scientist. > > >It is remarkably important because it represents a direct violation > >of conservation. > > Why? The details of the effect are so sketchy that there's no way to > know for sure if COE is being violated. Certainly it might appear to > be, but the details which would clear this up aren't available. > > >And it appears to be easily repeatable. > > NOT! No one has been able to repeat it. That's the most unfortunate > thing. I hope NASA has some luck. But so far... > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 17:13:29 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA20233; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:12:04 -0700 (PDT) From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:30:42 -0400 Message-ID: <20000928.181520.395.2.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-9 Resent-Message-ID: <"Emb2o1.0.mx4.Jvzqv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16978 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: forget about all that difficult building of machines, check this out I just came across this incredible web site http://www.toybuilders.com where they can build anything to your design in a few hours, not quite a start trek replicator, but close enough. Maybe all those designs that people claim they are working on, but don't have the skills to complete can now happen? Dave ============================================ dave.tingley@juno.com http://dave_tingley.tripod.com The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 18:50:39 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA02099; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:50:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:50:07 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000928204545.00c5d9b0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:51:28 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine In-Reply-To: <003901c029a3$d57e34c0$2f3dee3f@default> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000926173316.00b26370@mail.endirect.qc.ca> <4.2.0.58.20000928081058.00969650@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"rfqBr3.0.iW.FL_qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16979 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com OK I have the article and have read it... Rick is right.. its pretty vague about the theory and it seems to require a great deal of power to pull off. I have defiantly ben put in my place. still learning.... I will be studying Einstein little more deeply now into magneto gravity. At 07:28 PM 9/28/00 -0400, you wrote: >OK, guys, this is what I know. I keep running into re-hashes of the >discussion over the Tampere experiment... > > The original experiment was performed in Finland back in 1992 or 1993 I >believe, by Eugene Podkletnov and a colleague. Pre-prints of the paper and >other dissertations by Modanese, Li, and others are also available >everywhere. Start right here on Bill's site on the Gravity page! Follow >the links. > NASA has been attempting a sort of low budget replication project in >Huntsville, that has been on again off again for about a year now. The YBCO >discs and plates were contracted by way of a phase I and phase II SBIR with >a firm in Columbus Ohio. I periodically touch base with them, but NASA >really tells them very little about the overall experiment progress. One >gathers results have been negative so far. > Dr. Podkletnov has been retained as a consultant, but is somewhat >mercurial to work with I have been told. > The piece about a bowling ball sounds like really poor sensationalist >reporting / embellishment. They just aren't anywhere near that... > Sort of makes you wonder why NASA goes to the trouble of the Huntsville >replicatory project if there really are all of these higher tech "secret" >antigravity projects... A cover? Or maybe there really are no "secret" >projects after all... I don't pretend to know. Now get thee back to your >own experiments! Thats where the breakthrough will come from! > >NR >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rick Monteverde" >To: >Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 3:56 PM >Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine > > > > Charles - > > > > At 8:20 AM -0500 9/28/00, Charles Ford wrote: > > > > >This is based on a laboratory accident (Swedish I think) > > > > Finland. Russian scientist. > > > > >It is remarkably important because it represents a direct violation > > >of conservation. > > > > Why? The details of the effect are so sketchy that there's no way to > > know for sure if COE is being violated. Certainly it might appear to > > be, but the details which would clear this up aren't available. > > > > >And it appears to be easily repeatable. > > > > NOT! No one has been able to repeat it. That's the most unfortunate > > thing. I hope NASA has some luck. But so far... > > > > - Rick Monteverde > > Honolulu, HI > > Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 19:12:30 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12137; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:12:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:12:01 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000928205340.00c6a8a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:13:29 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford In-Reply-To: <39D2124C.7140E98E@centurytel.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"cM8E-2.0.Tz2.nf_qv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16980 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: "tribo-grav" thread Bravo! Group... Bearing in mind that this is an "armature" group you might be mislead about the level of professionalism that is at work here. During this thread this "armature" group has cooperated, performed carefully planed experiments and exchanged information in a manor that that puts many professional organizations to shame. This group has (as far as I can tell) put aside bickering and argued points in a learned manor. You have ben able to learn from each other and apply new knowledge quickly and competently. And you have reached a common conclusion to a complex and rather tricky concept. Now we can all say with pride "We have tested that and this is what we found" BRAVO Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 19:38:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA25811; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:37:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:37:45 -0700 Message-ID: <002d01c029bd$d118e000$a9d666ce@default> From: "Chris O'Barr" To: Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:34:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ndkCW3.0.BJ6.u10rv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16981 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com It takes energy to create gravity though. So I don't think it would be a "free energy" device. More like photovoltaic cells for harnessing gravity (as opposed to light). -----Original Message----- From: Charles Ford To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, September 28, 2000 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine >This is based on a laboratory accident (Swedish I think) >It is remarkably important because it represents a direct violation of >conservation. >And it appears to be easily repeatable. > >Although it is not an "Energy machine" If you could remove gravity from one >side of a vertically mounted the gravity on the other side would >continuously unbalance the disk and cause it to rotate. Skeptics hold >this principal design to be the reason that antigravity or even attenuation >of gravity is impossible.... > >Simply because it could be made to violate the faithfully held Conservation >of Energy. > >If this truly works I can publish.... > >At 05:24 PM 9/27/00 -0700, you wrote: >>marcus i thought it was scientific american. >> >> > >> > I've just received my copy of Popular Mechanics(Volume 177, No 10) in it, >> > on page 40-42 >> > there is this article about a new way to tame gravity by using what the >> > laboratory of >> > Huntsville, Ala., describres as a 12-in.-dia. high temperature >> > superconductor disc(HTSD) >> > "When the force-field machine is complete, a bowling ball placed anywhere >> > above this disc, >> > which resembles a clutch plate, will stay exactly where you left it." >> > >> > Maybe another way to achieve Anti-Gravity? Let me know what you think of >>this, >> > Marcus >> > >> > The great tragedy of science - the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an >> > ugly fact. - T H Huxley (English scientist, 1887-1975) >> > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 19:46:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA28766; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:45:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:45:54 -0700 Sender: crusoe@eskimo.com Message-ID: <39D3B015.7C67BADA@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:54:45 -0500 From: Daniel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine References: <20000928.085003.297.2.dave.tingley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xs1Nt1.0.K17.X90rv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16982 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Guys, it sounds to me it may just be another form of magnetic levitation, like what they did with frogs and golf balls last year. All materials are magnetically suspectible to some extent, so with proper tuning, you can use a magnet and radio waves to levitate non-ferrous objects. It takes energy though, and it ain't free, nor is it any more a-grav than other magnetic levitation systems. Daniel Joyce From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 20:22:28 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA08916; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:21:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:21:56 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.20.184.27] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:21:24 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2000 03:21:24.0309 (UTC) FILETIME=[58987850:01C029C4] Resent-Message-ID: <"QpY7.0.BB2.Kh0rv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16983 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com >projects after all... I don't pretend to know. Now get thee back to your >own experiments! Thats where the breakthrough will come from! *snip* Now thats telling them Nick... We should all just mind are own F$%@ bussiness... Right??? Timothy... >From: "Nick Reiter" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: >Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine >Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:28:31 -0400 > >OK, guys, this is what I know. I keep running into re-hashes of the >discussion over the Tampere experiment... > > The original experiment was performed in Finland back in 1992 or 1993 I >believe, by Eugene Podkletnov and a colleague. Pre-prints of the paper and >other dissertations by Modanese, Li, and others are also available >everywhere. Start right here on Bill's site on the Gravity page! Follow >the links. > NASA has been attempting a sort of low budget replication project in >Huntsville, that has been on again off again for about a year now. The >YBCO >discs and plates were contracted by way of a phase I and phase II SBIR with >a firm in Columbus Ohio. I periodically touch base with them, but NASA >really tells them very little about the overall experiment progress. One >gathers results have been negative so far. > Dr. Podkletnov has been retained as a consultant, but is somewhat >mercurial to work with I have been told. > The piece about a bowling ball sounds like really poor sensationalist >reporting / embellishment. They just aren't anywhere near that... > Sort of makes you wonder why NASA goes to the trouble of the Huntsville >replicatory project if there really are all of these higher tech "secret" >antigravity projects... A cover? Or maybe there really are no "secret" >projects after all... I don't pretend to know. Now get thee back to your >own experiments! Thats where the breakthrough will come from! > >NR >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rick Monteverde" >To: >Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 3:56 PM >Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine > > > > Charles - > > > > At 8:20 AM -0500 9/28/00, Charles Ford wrote: > > > > >This is based on a laboratory accident (Swedish I think) > > > > Finland. Russian scientist. > > > > >It is remarkably important because it represents a direct violation > > >of conservation. > > > > Why? The details of the effect are so sketchy that there's no way to > > know for sure if COE is being violated. Certainly it might appear to > > be, but the details which would clear this up aren't available. > > > > >And it appears to be easily repeatable. > > > > NOT! No one has been able to repeat it. That's the most unfortunate > > thing. I hope NASA has some luck. But so far... > > > > - Rick Monteverde > > Honolulu, HI > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 28 20:33:46 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14397; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:33:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:33:16 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.20.184.27] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: forget about all that difficult building of machines, check this out Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:32:43 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2000 03:32:43.0787 (UTC) FILETIME=[ED9895B0:01C029C5] Resent-Message-ID: <"N8Tvb3.0.pW3.xr0rv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16984 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Funny that sight looks a lot like this one.... http://www.deiman.nl/weird/ Try it you might like it... LOL... Timothy... >From: dave.tingley@juno.com >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: [FG]: forget about all that difficult building of machines, check >this out >Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:30:42 -0400 > >I just came across this incredible web site http://www.toybuilders.com >where they can build anything to your design in a few hours, not quite a >start trek replicator, but close enough. Maybe all those designs that >people claim they are working on, but don't have the skills to complete >can now happen? > >Dave >============================================ >dave.tingley@juno.com >http://dave_tingley.tripod.com >The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to >the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 29 00:31:56 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA16537; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:31:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:31:00 -0700 Message-ID: <20000929073029.22651.qmail@web4402.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:30:29 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: Multiple Wave Oscillation Mpeg To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"L5WcL.0.I24.qK4rv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16985 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > In reply to harvey norris's message of Thu, 28 Sep > 2000 05:11:15 -0700 > (PDT): > > >In a certain rehashing of facts the following is > >noted. > >MWO stands for Multiple Wave Oscillations. > [snip] > Hi Harvey, > > Could the entire coil be acting as a poor quality > resonant cavity, of > shifting geometry? > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk Dont know how to reply there. The coils that produce the effect are a very long length of 23 gauge wire. At 18 miles together as a tank circuit, that standing wave calculated by quarter wavelength formula, which in itself is said to be incorrect as to what the coils natural resonant frequency will be, would be about 2500 hz. When I first measured the frequency some years ago by placing an inductor in the high frequency magnetic field made by the method,and observing on oscilloscope the frequency of the spikes found on the 60 hz cycle, I found it to be 166,000 hz. At that time I thought the electric wave front would never have the time period to complete its journey at that high an oscillation, or it implied something was going faster than the speed of light if it did. However I later repeated this test, using a different inductor, whereupon I found that it now registered 31,250 hz. As it turns out every different size inductor reads a different frequency. Therefore by reasoning the process only makes each coil ring at what its natural self resonant frequency should be. Also exposing the body to the fields does the same thing, producing its own self resonant freq, so thats how the name MWO ties in with Lakhovsky's research. The bodies responce to the high frequency system can be measured 25 ft away from the device, merely by sticking the fingers through an inductor sending a signal to scope. (Lakhovsky may have been using a similar high frequency bipolar system.) It is possible to procure a high frequency electric field from the process, without causing the 60 hz magnetic fields on the coils to be significantly disturbed. This is done by only reacting with one side of the bipolar tuned coils, where the rise of voltage occurs on the midpoint of the circuit, on the line between L and C in series resonance at 60 hz. The other side of the circuit merely consists of a mirror image of the other LC quantity that has its input connections reversed with respect to the other, so that these are termed 180 phased series resonances. The q of the coils being around 15, a 15 fold resonant rise of voltage is present from the midpoint of the LC resonance referenced to either end or ground, and twice that referenced to the other midpoint, so this is analogous to a resonant center tapped transformer. The very big difference is that nothing can be grounded, as this circumvents the resonance. We can also reference one midpoint to surface areas, or what I have called polar capacities. Touching one of these will give a 1700 volt shock. By placing a minute arc gap in series to the surface areas from the high voltage midpoint, the surface area's inherent polar capacity will be thrown into a high frequency oscillation, shown by arcing at the midpoint arc gap where the amounts of electrons between the systems are interchanged, without significantly altering the outside oscillation at source frequency. So now what we have done is to produce a high frequency electric field on that plate. The sensing inductor in these jpegs is placed 4 inches above the first of three plates in series, with its loops FACING the plate, which is why I also thought that to be a longitudinal vibration, as it is in the incorrect orientation to recieve flux change from the generated magnetic field at right angles to the electric. On this inductor that always registers 31,250 hz, turning it into the conventional orientation with the center of the loop 4 inches above the plate will reduce the signal in half. This longitudinal orientation produces the signals shown at .2 volts/div., at .1 ms/div sweep rate. Each jpeg shows the vibration recorded in that 1 ms, so all thirteen in a row show almost a 60 hz cycle. However this in itself may only be a smaller portion of the total activity going on. The end plate of this system is capacitively coupled to ground via an argon tube in series. Remarkably a mpeg video of these last two surface areas in daytime was made where it really messes with the digital Dazzle translation software, recording it from VHS taping. What happens is that freeze frames occur, and all kinds of visual vibration in the background. I will soon be placing that file there also after it is shortened. The first take was 44 seconds, with the last freeze frame being 22 seconds, or half the video! Another conceptial problem here is the known sampling rate made by the Dazzle software when it makes a mpeg video. This is approximately 30 frames per second or .03 seconds. But in that time period at .1 ms/div sweep rate 30 sweeps have already occurred! So it seems that the software is actually only seeing a small slice of time during these high frequency events. Now I am fairly certain that a VHS camera has a sampling rate of 60 frames per second. What is particularly bizaare is to take a scope form of a 2 ms/div input 60 hertz signal and then tape that with a VHS camera. When you then view that tape you will see traces that werent there before diagonally across the scope screen, completely going off the scope screen also in the video. This can be partially eliminated by another bizaare method, turning down the intensity of the scope beam itself. But when we are viewing the 60 hz signal on a television monitor, and in turn making a mpeg of the VHS tape, you only see HALF of the beam sweep on the mpeg copy! Chop,Chop, I guess thats because the mpeg software uses a 30 frame per second sampling rate vs. the 60 frame /second VHS cameras sampling rate. Any Opinions? HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 29 04:22:06 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA26375; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 04:21:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 04:21:41 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:21:03 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Sine Wave - Help! X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.81.53 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"x-_36.0.0S6.5j7rv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16986 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com -- On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:34:31 Charles Ford wrote: >I had gone looking for something like this back in.... say.... 91.... >Don't remember why.... > >I ended up having to design the thing and build it myself... I would ship >the design but its property of Tandy Electronics Design (if there still >called that) Any way.... If you are unable to find equipment or it is >prohibitively expensive I will sit down re-create the thing. Thanks! I've been looking around, but anything which costs less than a hefty $400-$600 is hard to find. Using the Exar to drive an audio amp seems promising, but I'm ne too hot on the principles of power amplification. Your help is ver much appreciated th ough. James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 29 04:24:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA27103; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 04:24:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 04:24:38 -0700 Message-ID: <039101c02a06$1ee3f480$3e0ffea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: , "energy21" Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 04:12:10 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"KtUIs3.0.Kd6.sl7rv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16987 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: car that runs on tapwater > It's a driver's dream - the car that runs on tapwater > > FORGET petrol taxes. You'll soon be able to run your car on > tapwater, say scientists. Petrol pumps could be dumped in favour of > garden hoses if their prototype kit, which will be ready in two months, > takes off. > > A power generator has run for 40 hours on water and the scientists > believe cars will get 200 miles to the gallon. They claim their design > is environmentally-friendly with no pollutants. American inventor Dan > Maarsman, 66, said: "The kit can convert a lawnmower or a plane - > anything with an internal combustion engine." It is expected to cost > £1,200 and works by separating hydrogen from the oxygen in water.The > company making it said: "People think we're mad, but things change. > Hydrogen is the fuel of the new millennium." > > http://www.lineone.net/express/00/09/28/news/n2340-d.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 29 04:24:59 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA27140; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 04:24:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 04:24:40 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:23:55 0000 From: "James Owen Batchelor" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: finalheaven@angelfire.com X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Sender-Ip: 143.210.81.53 Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yzo-Q2.0.cd6.ul7rv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16988 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Hamfest 2k Could someone explain to a limey what a hamfest is? We don't have anything going by that name here in the UK. James O. Batchelor Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 29 06:49:01 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA31614; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 06:48:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 06:48:24 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000929083643.00965d40@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:48:36 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine In-Reply-To: <00c101c0298a$71fcea40$78736bc6@compaq> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000926173316.00b26370@mail.endirect.qc.ca> <4.2.0.58.20000928081058.00969650@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"CP_Zk.0.tj7.es9rv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16989 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com This thread refers to an article in Popular Mechanics Oct 2000 (the new one) The article refers to the superconducting disk / gravity sponsored by NASA in Huntsville AL. The article "Taming Gravity" (starting on page 40) its intriguing but there is no OU here. At 01:26 PM 9/28/00 -0700, you wrote: >are you talking of the superconductor experiemnts with gravity in tampere >finland by eugene podletnov? >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rick Monteverde" >To: >Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 12:56 PM >Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Taming Gravity with a force-field machine > > > > Charles - > > > > At 8:20 AM -0500 9/28/00, Charles Ford wrote: > > > > >This is based on a laboratory accident (Swedish I think) > > > > Finland. Russian scientist. > > > > >It is remarkably important because it represents a direct violation > > >of conservation. > > > > Why? The details of the effect are so sketchy that there's no way to > > know for sure if COE is being violated. Certainly it might appear to > > be, but the details which would clear this up aren't available. > > > > >And it appears to be easily repeatable. > > > > NOT! No one has been able to repeat it. That's the most unfortunate > > thing. I hope NASA has some luck. But so far... > > > > - Rick Monteverde > > Honolulu, HI > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 29 08:35:49 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02028; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:35:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:35:06 -0700 From: dave.tingley@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:34:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [FG]: forget about all that difficult building of machines, check this out Message-ID: <20000929.112526.306.0.dave.tingley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-39 Resent-Message-ID: <"bR_Zt1.0.bV.fQBrv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16990 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com yes, they use the same MS frontpage theme. Your link does seem a little more weird though :-) Dave On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:32:43 PDT "Timothy Flytch" writes: > Funny that sight looks a lot like this one.... > http://www.deiman.nl/weird/ > Try it you might like it... LOL... > > Timothy... > > >From: dave.tingley@juno.com > >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >To: energy21@listbot.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >Subject: [FG]: forget about all that difficult building of > machines, check > >this out > >Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:30:42 -0400 > > > >I just came across this incredible web site > http://www.toybuilders.com > >where they can build anything to your design in a few hours, not > quite a > >start trek replicator, but close enough. Maybe all those designs > that > >people claim they are working on, but don't have the skills to > complete > >can now happen? > > > >Dave > >============================================ > >dave.tingley@juno.com > >http://dave_tingley.tripod.com > >The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the > fool to > >the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 29 10:48:22 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20720; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 10:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 10:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004301c02a3d$b1a2c4e0$c57b3b8e@robone> From: "Rob Polley" To: , References: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:50:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"pY6VX1.0.a35.QMDrv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16991 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Re: Hamfest 2k It is a get together held by amateur radio operators, often call "Hams" in this part of the world. I don't know for sure where the tern came from, but there are a couple of possibilities. Sometimes when a person is acting playful or making a fool of them selves it used to be common over here to say that they were "hamming it up" or acting like a "ham". Also there is an expression "ham fisted" meaning meaning a lack of finger dexterity. It could be that the term "Ham radio operator" derives from either of these two expressions, in the first case that they were considered some thing of a joke by professional radio operators, and in the second case that they were not as highly skilled with the use of a telegraph key when sending Morse code. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Owen Batchelor" To: Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 11:23 AM Subject: [FG]: Hamfest 2k > Could someone explain to a limey what a hamfest is? We don't have anything going by that name here in the UK. > > James O. Batchelor > > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 29 17:05:27 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA19891; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 17:05:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 17:05:03 -0700 Message-ID: <20000930000428.10721.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 17:04:28 -0700 (PDT) From: harvey norris Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Hamfest 2k To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"A0dSQ3.0.es4.kuIrv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16992 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com --- Rob Polley wrote: > It is a get together held by amateur radio > operators, often call "Hams" in > this part of the world. I don't know for sure where > the tern came from, but > there are a couple of possibilities. I would rather think it is taken from the first syllable of the word amateur. HDN ===== Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 29 17:53:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA03926; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 17:52:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 17:52:47 -0700 Message-ID: <001701c02a79$2dda1410$c57b3b8e@robone> From: "Rob Polley" To: References: <20000930000428.10721.qmail@web4401.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: Re: Hamfest 2k Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 18:55:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Resent-Message-ID: <"VXOw51.0.Ez.UbJrv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16993 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com You are probably right Harvey, I was just quoting what was told to me by the instructor in a Ham radio course I took a few years ago. ----- Original Message ----- From: "harvey norris" > > --- Rob Polley wrote: > > It is a get together held by amateur radio > > operators, often call "Hams" in > > this part of the world. I don't know for sure where > > the tern came from, but > > there are a couple of possibilities. > I would rather think it is taken from the first > syllable of the word amateur. HDN > > ===== > Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 29 20:03:08 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA16993; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:02:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:02:38 -0700 Message-ID: <39D559BC.A4B7B4A5@csrlink.net> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 23:10:52 -0400 From: Mike Johnston Organization: http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/index.html X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael S. Johnston" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7EaSl3.0.594.DVLrv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16994 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Mazda H2 powered car brochure link http://www.boni.com/rotary/hydrogen/referenc/Presskit.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 29 21:24:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13740; Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:23:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:23:47 -0700 Message-ID: <008301c02a94$7b727940$ea07fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Anna M*" To: , , , "energy21" Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:11:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007E_01C02A59.CC3A4280" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"qRGVa3.0.XM3.JhMrv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16995 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: Fw: [SO] NASA Funds Controversial Gravity Shield This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007E_01C02A59.CC3A4280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Dunn, Steven J. To: 'skywatch' Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 11:17 AM Subject: [SO] NASA Funds Controversial Gravity Shield Science News - updated 11:48 AM ET Sep 29 Add to My Yahoo! Reuters | SPACE.com | AP Friday September 29 11:48 AM EDT Weighty Implications: NASA Funds Controversial Gravity Shield By Jack Lucentini, SPACE.com Brushing aside controversy and a few glitches, NASA officials are forging ahead with plans to build a device that they say could work as an antigravity machine. Most scientists say the idea of such a gadget is ludicrous. But given the stakes, NASA officials say, it's worth a try. A machine that even slightly reduces gravity at spacecraft launch sites, agency officials believe, could save significant amounts of money. The opportunity to try out such a machine is expected to come this May, when an Ohio company is scheduled to finish a prototype of the device for NASA. Not that the space agency's officials themselves have high hopes. "To say this is highly speculative is probably putting it mildly," acknowledged Ron Koczor, assistant director for science and technology at the Space Science Laboratory in NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama. Nonetheless, NASA awarded a $600,000 contract last year to Superconductive Components Inc. in Columbus, Ohio to build the device. Critics say the notion of a "gravity shield" violates Einstein's fundamental laws of physics. "The theory of gravity is fairly well established, and I don't see it reversing itself," said Francis Slakey, a professor of physics at Georgetown University. The NASA project is "wasted money that could have been used to do legitimate space science," he added. Koczor portrayed that view as closed-minded. Scientists such as Slakey "don't seem to be amenable to observing that maybe the laws [of physics] are incomplete," Koczor said. Throughout history, new discoveries have rocked old assumptions, he pointed out. "People used to talk about laws of conservation of mass, conservation of energy. Then all of a sudden, Einstein comes along and says those are really parts of the same thing." Einstein wrote that gravity can be considered a bending of space-time that inevitably occurs around massive objects such as planets and stars. That, the conventional view holds, means no mere machine or invention can make it go away; it is not a "force" that can be counteracted. The conventional scientists aren't the only critics of the NASA project. The agency is also drawing fire from some of its former collaborators in the effort. To see why, it helps to start from the beginning. In 1992, a Finnish scientist, Eugene Podkletnov, claimed to have built a device that produced a gravity-shielding effect. It consisted of a hot, fast-spinning, 12-inch (30-centimeter) disk of a superconducting ceramic, levitating within a magnetic field. Objects above the disk, Podkletnov reported, showed a loss of weight of between about 0.5 percent and 2 percent. In 1996, researchers at Marshall Space Flight Center decided to investigate the claims. "The fact that it had appeared in a credible scientific journal is what really caught our eye," Koczor said. Actually, Podkletnov had withdrawn his most recent article from publication under unclear circumstances. But he and others had published research on antigravity phenomena in several peer-reviewed journals. Koczor assembled a team that worked together with scientists at the nearby University of Alabama at Huntsville, to build a device partially simulating the one Podkletnov had used. But the researchers were unable to replicate Podkletnov's results, and the partnership fell apart last year with bad blood between the two sides. The university's Larry Smalley, a physics professor, says NASA simply failed to assemble a competent team of scientists who could give the project a serious chance. The events "amused me, stunned me and upset me," said Smalley, who said he was involved as an observer of the project at the time. "It made me feel like they wasted time, a lot of money and a really golden opportunity to do something." Smalley said he remains skeptical that Koczor and NASA have the know-how to do anything meaningful with the project. The main university professor involved with the project, Ning Li, has since left the school. She is said to have moved to China. Koczor said the project fell apart not because of incompetence, but because Li was primarily interested in proving her theories of why the "gravity shield" would work. That differed from NASA's goal of simply building a working device, he said. "She wanted the research to focus on her particular theory. Our intent was simply to show there was a gravity effect, without saying 'theory A is right' or 'theory B is right,'" he explained. Last year, NASA decided to try again, this time by contracting out the construction of the device. Superconductive Components is in communication with Podkletnov as they attempt to build it, Koczor said. The project is on or ahead of schedule, said J.R. Gaines, vice president of Superconductive Components. "The superconductor is built. The rest has been designed and fabrication is proceeding," Gaines said. However, he said, he can't offer an opinion on whether the device will actually work. The company's job is simply to build it to the assigned specifications. "We don't necessarily have a technical opinion," he said, though "we would certainly love to see this work." Visit SPACE.com for more space-related news, information, entertainment and multimedia, including videos, launch coverage and interactive experiences. Check out cool space images at our photo galleries. Zoom in on the Sydney Games...and catch the Olympics from space. SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL, INC. (A Non-Profit Organization) "What could be stranger than the truth?" Skywatch International Inc. and this list service are not responsible for content or authenticity of posts. Please read our LIST POSTING RULES located at this URL: http://www.skywatch-international.org/skyopenfaq.htm To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a blank message to: Skywatch_Discussion-unsubscribe@egroups.com Visit the Skywatch International Inc. website! http://www.skywatch-international.org ------=_NextPart_000_007E_01C02A59.CC3A4280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Dunn, Steven = J.=20
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 11:17 AM
Subject: [SO] NASA Funds Controversial Gravity Shield =

Science News - updated 11:48 AM ET Sep 29

Add = to My=20 Yahoo!

      Reuters  | =20 SPACE.com  |  AP   =

     =20 Friday September 29 11:48 AM EDT
      = Weighty=20 Implications: NASA Funds
      Controversial = Gravity=20 Shield

      By Jack Lucentini,=20 SPACE.com

      Brushing aside = controversy and a=20 few glitches, NASA officials = are
forging
     =20 ahead with plans to build a device that they say could work as=20 an
antigravity
     =20 machine.

      Most scientists say the = idea of=20 such a gadget is ludicrous. But given
the stakes, NASA officials say, = it's=20 worth a
      try.=20

      A machine that even slightly = reduces=20 gravity at spacecraft launch
sites, agency officials believe, could=20 save
      significant amounts of=20 money.

      The opportunity to try out = such a=20 machine is expected to come this
May, when an Ohio company is=20 scheduled
      to finish a prototype of the = device=20 for NASA.

      Not that the space = agency's=20 officials themselves have high hopes. =

      "To=20 say this is highly speculative is probably putting it = mildly,"
acknowledged=20 Ron Koczor, assistant director for
      = science and=20 technology at the Space Science Laboratory in NASA's
Marshall Space = Flight=20 Center, Huntsville,
     =20 Alabama.

      Nonetheless, NASA awarded = a=20 $600,000 contract last year to
Superconductive Components Inc.=20 in
      Columbus, Ohio to build the=20 device.

      Critics say the notion of = a=20 "gravity shield" violates Einstein's
fundamental laws of=20 physics.

      "The theory of gravity is = fairly=20 well established, and I don't see it
reversing itself," said Francis = Slakey,=20 a
      professor of physics at Georgetown=20 University. The NASA project is
"wasted money that could have=20 been
      used to do legitimate space = science," he=20 added.

      Koczor portrayed that view = as=20 closed-minded.

      Scientists such as = Slakey=20 "don't seem to be amenable to observing that
maybe the laws [of = physics]=20 are
      incomplete," Koczor said.=20

      Throughout history, new = discoveries have=20 rocked old assumptions, he
pointed out. "People used to talk=20 about
      laws of conservation of mass,=20 conservation of energy. Then all of a
sudden, Einstein comes along = and=20 says
      those are really parts of the = same=20 thing."

      Einstein wrote that = gravity can be=20 considered a bending of space-time
that inevitably occurs around=20 massive
      objects such as planets and = stars.=20 That, the conventional view holds,
means no mere machine or invention = can
      make it go away; it is not a = "force" that=20 can be counteracted.

      The = conventional=20 scientists aren't the only critics of the NASA
project. The agency is = also=20 drawing fire from
      some of its former=20 collaborators in the effort. To see why, it helps
to start from the=20 beginning.

      In 1992, a Finnish = scientist,=20 Eugene Podkletnov, claimed to have built
a device that produced=20 a
      gravity-shielding=20 effect.

      It consisted of a hot,=20 fast-spinning, 12-inch (30-centimeter) disk of
a superconducting = ceramic,=20 levitating within
      a magnetic field. = Objects=20 above the disk, Podkletnov reported, showed
a loss of weight of = between about=20 0.5
      percent and 2=20 percent.

      In 1996, researchers at = Marshall=20 Space Flight Center decided to
investigate the claims. "The fact that = it=20 had
      appeared in a credible scientific = journal=20 is what really caught our
eye," Koczor=20 said.

      Actually, Podkletnov had = withdrawn=20 his most recent article from
publication under unclear circumstances. = But
      he and others had published = research on=20 antigravity phenomena in
several peer-reviewed=20 journals.

      Koczor assembled a team = that=20 worked together with scientists at the
nearby University of Alabama=20 at
      Huntsville, to build a device = partially=20 simulating the one Podkletnov
had used. But the researchers were=20 unable
      to replicate Podkletnov's = results, and=20 the partnership fell apart last
year with bad blood between the two = sides.=20

      The university's Larry Smalley, a = physics=20 professor, says NASA simply
failed to assemble a competent team=20 of
      scientists who could give the = project a=20 serious chance.

      The events "amused = me,=20 stunned me and upset me," said Smalley, who
said he was involved as = an=20 observer of
      the project at the time. = "It made=20 me feel like they wasted time, a lot
of money and a really golden = opportunity=20 to
      do something."=20

      Smalley said he remains skeptical = that=20 Koczor and NASA have the
know-how to do anything meaningful=20 with
      the project.=20

      The main university professor = involved=20 with the project, Ning Li, has
since left the school. She is said to=20 have
      moved to=20 China.

      Koczor said the project = fell apart=20 not because of incompetence, but
because Li was primarily interested=20 in
      proving her theories of why the = "gravity=20 shield" would work. That
differed from NASA's goal of simply=20 building
      a working device, he=20 said.

      "She wanted the research to = focus on=20 her particular theory. Our intent
was simply to show there was a=20 gravity
      effect, without saying 'theory = A is=20 right' or 'theory B is right,'"=20 he
explained.

      Last year, NASA = decided=20 to try again, this time by contracting out the
construction of the=20 device.
      Superconductive Components is = in=20 communication with Podkletnov as they
attempt to build it, Koczor=20 said.

      The project is on or ahead = of=20 schedule, said J.R. Gaines, vice
president of Superconductive=20 Components.

      "The superconductor is = built.=20 The rest has been designed and
fabrication is proceeding," Gaines = said.=20 However,
      he said, he can't offer an = opinion on=20 whether the device will actually
work. The company's job is simply to = build
      it to the assigned=20 specifications.

      "We don't = necessarily have=20 a technical opinion," he said, though "we
would certainly love to see = this=20 work."

      Visit SPACE.com for more=20 space-related news, information,
entertainment and multimedia, = including=20 videos,
      launch coverage and = interactive=20 experiences. Check out cool space
images at our photo galleries. Zoom = in=20 on
      the Sydney Games...and catch the = Olympics=20 from space.


SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL, INC. (A = Non-Profit=20 Organization)

"What could be stranger than the = truth?"

Skywatch=20 International Inc. and this list service are not responsible for content = or=20 authenticity of posts.

Please read our LIST POSTING RULES = located at=20 this URL:
http://www.= skywatch-international.org/skyopenfaq.htm

To=20 UNSUBSCRIBE, send a blank message to:=20 Skywatch_Discussion-unsubscribe@egroups.com

Visit the Skywatch=20 International Inc. website! http://www.skywatch-intern= ational.org=20
------=_NextPart_000_007E_01C02A59.CC3A4280-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 30 09:52:43 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA24711; Sat, 30 Sep 2000 09:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 09:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001801c02afe$da8ce360$1f3dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 12:52:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C02ADD.5200D860" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"LFLxM3.0.w16.ZeXrv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16996 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C02ADD.5200D860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen; On behalf of my friend and correspondant Dr. Sam Faile, I am = forwarding to the group a little piece about his most recent LED new = energy experiment. It is text only, the schematic won't fit. Just to preface this; Sam has been experimenting with matched LED / = battery circuits with multiple LED's in parallel. He believes he has = discovered a curious anomaly that only shows up in circuits using = gallium nitride quantum well LEDs. In these circuits, he measures the = total current at the battery. Then going to each of the individual LED = branches, he measures the currents there. Ideally, they should all add = up to the total original current figure, within some very minor = measurement error. However, according to Sam, they don't. The total = circuit current seems to be less than the sum of the branches, to the = tune of around 10 to 15%, with total current in the 2 to 5 mA range. I am going to try to splice this in from a Word document. Hope it = works. For those who want more information, please contact Sam Faile at = (513) 563-4953 - evenings, or write him at 4002 Sharon Park Ln. Apt. 13, = Cincinnati, Ohio USA 45241. In the next few days, I will try to have the schematic and original = write up posted on one or more websites, and I will send links to these. NR ************* Promising Long Life Lamp with Unusual Current Characteristics Built, with testing initiated - September 2000 Dr. S.P. Faile In late September, Dr. Faile designed and constructed an LED lamp = circuit that seems to maximize a peculiar effect relating to device = current and power useage. Essentially, it has been found that in some = simple LED circuits where multiple devices are placed in parallel = arrangement, the total current measured in the circuit is less than the = sum of the individual branch currents. This is seemingly in defiance of = well-known DC circuit principles. Theoretical and experimental work is = currently underway to explore this paradoxical observation. The circuit being presented has displayed the current anomaly to the = highest degree yet observed. It is extremely simple in construction, and = makes use of components easily available to the researcher. Two D-cell sized alkaline batteries are placed in series, to produce a = potential of 3.0V nominally. To these batteries are connected, in = forward bias direction, four LEDs of the particular variety noted below. = The LEDs are all in parallel, with no current dropping resistors used. A = switch may be added for convenience of testing or use. In a practical = sense, the lamp is of a brightness such that, when placed in a case, it = would provide use as a flashlight for many days, and as a dimmer night = light or indicator for many months to follow. ( sorry - schematic doesn't fit into this format) Batteries may be Duracell Alkaline or equiv. The LEDs are GaN green 5mm = devices, Nichia part number NSPG510S, or available as Hosfelt = Electronics catalog # 25-377. Please note that this effect is highly dependant on the type of LED = used. GaAs or GaP LED devices do not seem to produce the effect to an = appreciable degree; thus there may be a factor native to GaN = semiconductors that is involved! ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C02ADD.5200D860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gentlemen;
 
   On behalf of my friend and = correspondant Dr. Sam Faile, I am forwarding to the group a little piece = about=20 his most recent LED new energy experiment.  It is text only, the = schematic=20 won't fit.
   Just to preface = this;  Sam has=20 been experimenting with matched LED / battery circuits with multiple = LED's in=20 parallel.  He believes he has discovered a curious anomaly that = only shows=20 up in circuits using gallium nitride quantum well LEDs.  In these = circuits,=20 he measures the total current at the battery.  Then going to each = of the=20 individual LED branches, he measures the currents there.  Ideally, = they=20 should all add up to the total original current figure, within some very = minor=20 measurement error.  However, according to Sam, they don't.  = The total=20 circuit current seems to be less than the sum of the branches, to the = tune of=20 around 10 to 15%, with total current in the 2 to 5 mA = range.
   I am going to try to = splice this in=20 from a Word document.  Hope it works.  For those who want more = information, please contact Sam Faile at (513) 563-4953 - evenings, or = write him=20 at 4002 Sharon Park Ln. Apt. 13, Cincinnati, Ohio USA = 45241.
 
In the next few days, I will try to = have the=20 schematic and original write up posted on one or more websites, and I = will send=20 links to these.
 
NR
*************

Promising Long Life Lamp with Unusual Current=20 Characteristics

Built, with testing initiated – September = 2000

Dr. S.P. Faile

 

In late September, Dr. Faile designed and = constructed an LED=20 lamp circuit that seems to maximize a peculiar effect relating to device = current=20 and power useage. Essentially, it has been found that in some simple LED = circuits where multiple devices are placed in parallel arrangement, the = total=20 current measured in the circuit is less than the sum of the individual = branch=20 currents. This is seemingly in defiance of well-known DC circuit = principles.=20 Theoretical and experimental work is currently underway to explore this=20 paradoxical observation.

The circuit being presented has displayed the = current=20 anomaly to the highest degree yet observed. It is extremely simple in=20 construction, and makes use of components easily available to the=20 researcher.

Two D-cell sized alkaline batteries are placed in = series, to=20 produce a potential of 3.0V nominally. To these batteries are connected, = in=20 forward bias direction, four LEDs of the particular variety noted below. = The=20 LEDs are all in parallel, with no current dropping resistors used. A = switch may=20 be added for convenience of testing or use. In a practical sense, the = lamp is of=20 a brightness such that, when placed in a case, it would provide use as a = flashlight for many days, and as a dimmer night light or indicator for = many=20 months to follow.

( sorry - schematic doesn't fit into this=20 format)

Batteries may be = Duracell=20 Alkaline or equiv. The LEDs are GaN green 5mm devices, Nichia part = number=20 NSPG510S, or available as Hosfelt Electronics catalog # 25-377.

Please note that this effect is highly dependant on the type of LED = used.=20 GaAs or GaP LED devices do not seem to produce the effect to an = appreciable=20 degree; thus there may be a factor native to GaN semiconductors that is=20 involved!

 

 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C02ADD.5200D860-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 30 12:32:53 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12534; Sat, 30 Sep 2000 12:32:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 12:32:14 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.28.80.41] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 12:31:41 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Sep 2000 19:31:41.0861 (UTC) FILETIME=[0F5FAD50:01C02B15] Resent-Message-ID: <"ZCruB.0.l33.z-Zrv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16997 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com He's talking about the kerkoffs(Spelled???) law... the only problem is kerkoffs law is not an absolute unless you take it as it is written... I also wonder, if he takes into consideration the simple fact that LED's produce power from light??? Some are better than others... But this is nothing new... The BEAM guys have been using this for many years... I hate these kind of letters... NO... I'm not calling the guy just to point out his mistakes... He is not worth the $0.33 either... Timothy... >From: "Nick Reiter" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: >Subject: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile >Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 12:52:41 -0400 > >Gentlemen; > > On behalf of my friend and correspondant Dr. Sam Faile, I am forwarding >to the group a little piece about his most recent LED new energy >experiment. It is text only, the schematic won't fit. > Just to preface this; Sam has been experimenting with matched LED / >battery circuits with multiple LED's in parallel. He believes he has >discovered a curious anomaly that only shows up in circuits using gallium >nitride quantum well LEDs. In these circuits, he measures the total >current at the battery. Then going to each of the individual LED branches, >he measures the currents there. Ideally, they should all add up to the >total original current figure, within some very minor measurement error. >However, according to Sam, they don't. The total circuit current seems to >be less than the sum of the branches, to the tune of around 10 to 15%, with >total current in the 2 to 5 mA range. > I am going to try to splice this in from a Word document. Hope it >works. For those who want more information, please contact Sam Faile at >(513) 563-4953 - evenings, or write him at 4002 Sharon Park Ln. Apt. 13, >Cincinnati, Ohio USA 45241. > >In the next few days, I will try to have the schematic and original write >up posted on one or more websites, and I will send links to these. > >NR >************* >Promising Long Life Lamp with Unusual Current Characteristics > >Built, with testing initiated - September 2000 > >Dr. S.P. Faile > > > >In late September, Dr. Faile designed and constructed an LED lamp circuit >that seems to maximize a peculiar effect relating to device current and >power useage. Essentially, it has been found that in some simple LED >circuits where multiple devices are placed in parallel arrangement, the >total current measured in the circuit is less than the sum of the >individual branch currents. This is seemingly in defiance of well-known DC >circuit principles. Theoretical and experimental work is currently underway >to explore this paradoxical observation. > >The circuit being presented has displayed the current anomaly to the >highest degree yet observed. It is extremely simple in construction, and >makes use of components easily available to the researcher. > >Two D-cell sized alkaline batteries are placed in series, to produce a >potential of 3.0V nominally. To these batteries are connected, in forward >bias direction, four LEDs of the particular variety noted below. The LEDs >are all in parallel, with no current dropping resistors used. A switch may >be added for convenience of testing or use. In a practical sense, the lamp >is of a brightness such that, when placed in a case, it would provide use >as a flashlight for many days, and as a dimmer night light or indicator for >many months to follow. > >( sorry - schematic doesn't fit into this format) > >Batteries may be Duracell Alkaline or equiv. The LEDs are GaN green 5mm >devices, Nichia part number NSPG510S, or available as Hosfelt Electronics >catalog # 25-377. >Please note that this effect is highly dependant on the type of LED used. >GaAs or GaP LED devices do not seem to produce the effect to an appreciable >degree; thus there may be a factor native to GaN semiconductors that is >involved! > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 30 14:37:19 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA08912; Sat, 30 Sep 2000 14:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 14:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01c02b26$af6ece00$213dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 17:37:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"fGPit2.0.4B2.ipbrv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16998 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > He's talking about the kerkoffs(Spelled???) law... the only problem is > kerkoffs law is not an absolute unless you take it as it is written... > > I also wonder, if he takes into consideration the simple fact that LED's > produce power from light??? Some are better than others... But this is > nothing new... The BEAM guys have been using this for many years... > > I hate these kind of letters... NO... I'm not calling the guy just to point > out his mistakes... He is not worth the $0.33 either... > > Timothy... > ************ My first reaction was to send a brash reply that would probably be construed as initiation of flaming. My second reaction was an urge to quietly unsubscribe from the group as a gesture of solidarity with a fine colleague who is indeed worth more than $0.33. Either one would be a cop out. Dr. Faile does not own a computer, or otherwise I'm sure he would be posting his own findings, and replies to questions and critique. He does not own a computer because after his modest utilities and food budget are covered, every other last cent goes into his experimentation. He is a retired PhD in Materials Science, with a meager income from retirement funds, part time labor, and royalties from his patents in glass and crystallography. If he is rusty on Kirchoff's Law or basic DC circuits, then that is just something he needs to bone up on, and any constructive advice on things like measurement technique will be accepted gratefully. If you choose not to take interest in LED experiments, then that is fine. Be a gentleman and graciously spend your $.33 on ventures more to your liking, without demeaning an honorable scientist who is guilty of nothing more than a possible minor lack of understanding of things not from his original discipline. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 30 15:17:18 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA27493; Sat, 30 Sep 2000 15:17:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 15:17:00 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick@mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000d01c02b26$af6ece00$213dee3f@default> References: <000d01c02b26$af6ece00$213dee3f@default> Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 12:16:47 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"xTs9N3.0.Uj6.RPcrv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16999 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Nick - At 5:37 PM -0400 9/30/00, Nick Reiter wrote: >My first reaction was to send a brash reply that would >probably be construed as initiation of flaming. My second reaction was an >urge to quietly unsubscribe from the group as a gesture of solidarity with a >fine colleague who is indeed worth more than $0.33. Either one would be a >cop out. Thanks for posting the Faile report. I can't imagine what Flytch was thinking. It gets a little rough just to discuss things sometimes. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 30 20:36:14 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA05496; Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:35:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:35:54 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.27.225.194] From: "Timothy Flytch" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:35:22 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Oct 2000 03:35:22.0101 (UTC) FILETIME=[A0C8E250:01C02B58] Resent-Message-ID: <"FuwWF1.0.dL1.P4hrv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17000 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Ok Nick, I was rude, and I apologize... Have him try wrapping the diodes in foil and repeat the measurements... Timothy... >From: "Nick Reiter" >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: >Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile >Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 17:37:49 -0400 > > > > > > He's talking about the kerkoffs(Spelled???) law... the only problem is > > kerkoffs law is not an absolute unless you take it as it is written... > > > > I also wonder, if he takes into consideration the simple fact that LED's > > produce power from light??? Some are better than others... But this is > > nothing new... The BEAM guys have been using this for many years... > > > > I hate these kind of letters... NO... I'm not calling the guy just to >point > > out his mistakes... He is not worth the $0.33 either... > > > > Timothy... > > > >************ My first reaction was to send a brash reply that would >probably be construed as initiation of flaming. My second reaction was an >urge to quietly unsubscribe from the group as a gesture of solidarity with >a >fine colleague who is indeed worth more than $0.33. Either one would be a >cop out. > Dr. Faile does not own a computer, or otherwise I'm sure he would be >posting his own findings, and replies to questions and critique. He does >not own a computer because after his modest utilities and food budget are >covered, every other last cent goes into his experimentation. He is a >retired PhD in Materials Science, with a meager income from retirement >funds, part time labor, and royalties from his patents in glass and >crystallography. If he is rusty on Kirchoff's Law or basic DC circuits, >then that is just something he needs to bone up on, and any constructive >advice on things like measurement technique will be accepted gratefully. >If >you choose not to take interest in LED experiments, then that is fine. Be a >gentleman and graciously spend your $.33 on ventures more to your liking, >without demeaning an honorable scientist who is guilty of nothing more than >a possible minor lack of understanding of things not from his original >discipline. > >NR > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 30 20:36:47 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA05899; Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:36:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:36:28 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000930221624.00c87370@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 22:37:58 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile In-Reply-To: <001801c02afe$da8ce360$1f3dee3f@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"0sMLs2.0.4S1.x4hrv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17001 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com It is important to know if he is measuring the branched currents simultaneously or separately. I /E breaking individual branches and inserting a singal current meter. If he is measuring the current separately the test is not valid. Allow me to explain. The forward bios condition of these devices is such that they will not function at all until about 2.1 v has ben exceed. Then they will they will conduct current and emit light but as the current is increased the voltage will remain relatively stable When a current meter is introduced into this branch some of the voltage will be doped by the meter. this change will be exaggerated in the current reading causing the current through the individual branch to be low and giving the appearance that the total current is less. I understand that this is the opposite of the observed anomaly This means that the total effect may larger then what you are measuring. At 12:52 PM 9/30/00 -0400, you wrote: >Gentlemen; > > On behalf of my friend and correspondant Dr. Sam Faile, I am > forwarding to the group a little <> Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 30 21:05:00 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15568; Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:04:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:04:37 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000930230249.00c8f900@pop.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: cjford1@pop.mail.yahoo.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 23:06:17 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"6zMLk1.0.5p3.LVhrv"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17002 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com At 12:31 PM 9/30/00 -0700, you wrote: >He's talking about the kerkoffs(Spelled???) law... the only problem is >kerkoffs law is not an absolute unless you take it as it is written... So can you give me an example where Kirchhoff's law does not apply? Charlie Ford cjford1@yahoo.com cjford1@swbell.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 30 21:12:55 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA27107; Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01c02b5d$e39acda0$103dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 00:12:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"bbD9_1.0.Sd6.Echrv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17003 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Flytch" To: Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 11:35 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile > Ok Nick, > I was rude, and I apologize... Have him try wrapping the diodes in foil and > repeat the measurements... > > Timothy... > ******* Apology accepted. I will pass this on to him and take note of his results. NR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 30 21:17:12 2000 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA27615; Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001301c02b5e$8975e8e0$103dee3f@default> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <4.2.0.58.20000930221624.00c87370@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 00:17:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Resent-Message-ID: <"vZc_82.0.Il6.cghrv"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/17004 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Charles; Thank you for the input. I know that Sam was breaking out each leg when measuring, as he has only one meter. I will pass your comments on to him as well. Perhaps he can borrow three more meters and do a simultaneous test. Again, I will note and report results when I hear back from SF. These are the kind of suggestions that are valuable. Thanks. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Ford" To: Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [FG]: LED Circuit anomaly from Sam Faile > It is important to know if he is measuring the branched currents > simultaneously or separately. I /E breaking individual branches and > inserting a singal current meter. If he is measuring the current > separately the test is not valid. Allow me to explain. > > The forward bios condition of these devices is such that they will not > function at all until about 2.1 v has ben exceed. Then they will they will > conduct current and emit light but as the current is increased the voltage > will remain relatively stable When a current meter is introduced into > this branch some of the voltage will be doped by the meter. this change > will be exaggerated in the current reading causing the current through the > individual branch to be low and giving the appearance that the total > current is less. > > I understand that this is the opposite of the observed anomaly This means > that the total effect may larger then what you are measuring. >