From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 01:20:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA09690; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 01:20:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 01:20:12 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 20:27:06 +1000 Message-Id: <199709011027.UAA24806@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator Resent-Message-ID: <"1VMUi3.0.JN2.xgd2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/380 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 07:13 AM 8/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 09:24 PM 8/30/97 +1000, you wrote: >>At 08:36 PM 8/15/97 -0700, you wrote: >>>Have added new article to my web site >>on Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator by bernard Klien at 1945 invention >>Patent Article and diagrams at >> >>>http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/gas.htm >>if this does not work try the ones below >>Web site >>>http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel >>http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/ >> The above addresses are correct Please try again Geoff >>http://members.tripod.com/~geoffegel >> Geoff Egel >>egel@main.murray.net.au > >I got a message "unable to locate no DNS number" > >Is the address correct above? > >Thank you. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 02:15:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA15791; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 02:14:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 02:14:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199709010914.CAA06318@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Magnetic Rectifier Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 02:21:29 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tblDH.0.es3.FUe2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/381 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Geoff, I'm pleased to see that you have put information on Tesla's interesting magnetic rectifier on your site. You should know that your variation using a permanet magnet is part of Tesla's original idea. Do you have the article "Method Of Obtaining Direct From Alternating Currents" which has this "static" version included? I had suggested on the list quite a while back that this PM magnetic rectifier design might be able to rectify noise currents and provide a small amount of power in itself. Fred > Also see Magnetic rectifier > >http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/gas.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 02:44:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA17726; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 02:44:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 02:44:20 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 03:50:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: test (IGNORE) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Nv1vi2.0.oK4.pve2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/382 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: testing from : to freenrg-l -end- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 07:15:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA14317; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 07:15:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 07:15:34 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709011027.UAA24806@main.murray.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 10:16:24 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator Resent-Message-ID: <"951dg2.0.cV3.5ui2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/383 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I don't see any overunity application of this invention. It appears to be a simple electrolytic separator of oxygen and hydrogen from water which will require more energy in than out. >>>>Have added new article to my web site >>>on Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator by bernard Klien at 1945 invention >>>Patent Article and diagrams at >>> >>>>http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/gas.htm >>>if this does not work try the ones below >>>Web site >>>>http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel >>>http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/ >>> >The above addresses are correct Please try again > >Geoff Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 08:18:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id IAA20496; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 08:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 08:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <340AD811.5D8884C8@ihug.co.nz> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 02:58:25 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars References: <199708290123.LAA28589@nornet.nor.com.au> <3412d4d8.34524329@mail.eisa.net.au> <3409DCEC.4248@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l5sDV.0.605.soj2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/384 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I don't love the ideas of scalars anyway but static pressure must be a scalar right? but the value of pressure decreases as you are elevated higher from the ground so you have a scalar and a vector, also the value of heat from a flame decreases as you get further away but it is still a scalar. Bob Shannon wrote: > Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > > > On Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:23:18 +1000, Peter Nielsen wrote: > > > > > >So what about the issue of scalar gradients. > > > > Surely the gradient of a scalar is a vector, and hence no longer a > > scalar? > > Thats the textbook definition of a scalar value. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 08:27:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id IAA21757; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 08:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 08:26:59 -0700 (PDT) From: PROTIEUS@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 11:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970901112312_-932207428@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What SMOT does...Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 Resent-Message-ID: <"JRgAQ1.0.sJ5.0xj2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/385 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: hello, thankyou for telling me this clears up the mud..what if you were to put a bigger motor and a round magnetic ring under the motor would that give the ball bearings a bigger lift you see my interest is anti-gravity and i was wanting anothers view thank oyu ,,Scotty From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 11:14:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA12049; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 11:13:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 11:13:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709011812.LAA13228@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 09:54:06 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4ErW73.0.Ay2.2Nm2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/386 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Geoff, Richard, Richard is right, this is a fairly standard electrolytic device. There IS a good O/U "water-cracker" as I like to call them, the Puharich patent. Andrij Puharich fed a certain combination of frequencies into the water that were resonant with the bonds of the water molecule and broke down the water molecule with near 100 % efficiency. I know very little chemistry, but apparently the combination of H2 and O2 into water releases slightly more energy than what's theoretically required to break it down. Because Puharich's device worked so close to the theoretical efficiency he was able to make a car that drove across country on a tank of water and (possibly) a battery. I don't have the patent number handy at the moment, but a search on the IBM patent server for Puharich should show it. I also have a detailed article by Puharich on the construction of this device if you want it, Geoff. Fred > I don't see any overunity application of this invention. It appears to be a simple electrolytic separator of oxygen and hydrogen from water which will require more energy in than out. > > >>>>Have added new article to my web site > >>>on Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator by bernard Klien at 1945 invention > >>>Patent Article and diagrams at From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 11:19:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA21745; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 11:18:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 11:18:49 -0700 Message-ID: <340B07E2.36C1@swipnet.se> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 20:22:26 +0200 From: Roger Natanaelsson X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator References: <199709011027.UAA24806@main.murray.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jXHL4.0.gJ5.8Sm2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/387 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/ Add www. http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 11:34:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA14884; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 11:33:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 11:33:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709011831.LAA16424@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Stuart Rae" , "Jean-Louis Naudin" , "Free Energy" Subject: TEP is parametric! Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 11:37:19 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BCB6CB.67B89E60" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9N6Sh3.0.Pe3.sfm2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/388 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BCB6CB.67B89E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jean-louis and others in the TEP team! Your new "nonreciprocal" experiments completely corroborate my new theory on TEP operation. The key to my theory is a statement made by someone on the list to the effect that when L3 is "on" the system as a whole is NOT noninductive. L3 supports one of the windings of the TEP coil so that it has a finite inductance. When L3 is switched "off" the TEP coil returns to its natural noninductive state. The L thus goes back and forth between a value typical of a usual coil to the very low value of a bifilar coil. This provides the mechanism of parametric pumping according to the formula E= 1/2Li^2 (as the L goes to zero the energy in the coil must expand in order to maintain conservation laws). The TEP is the fulfillment of my dream of a parametric energy source. It is a better scheme than my "switched bifilar" device, which can be forgotten. The TEP needs only a few small modifications and it will be overunity to an extreme degree! Since the change in L is very large, the magnification of energy is TREMENDOUS. The energy seen in the TEP output does not derive from the L3 coil at all, but simply comes from the amplification of small noise voltages in the TEP coil. These voltages are probably in the milivolt if not microvolt range so the parametric amplification is at least 10,000 times for the circuit describe by you. Jean-louis, operating this circuit in DC form means you are running it in its LEAST efficient form! If the output circuit is resonant, the amplification will be applied to the voltage of the previous cycle and the energy gain will be ASTRONOMICAL! I am ABSOLUTELY sure of this! It will be necessary to put resistive heating elements in the circuit to dissipate energy and high current wire will be needed! It is true that the input must be a DC pulse because of how the device operates (but even that limitation can be overcome--see below). But it is not true that the OUTPUT circuit must be gated by diodes. No matter which way the current flows in a resonant form of your device, the L3 coil will support one field over the other and the noninductive coil becomes inductive, which is all that is necessary for the amplification to occur. Drawing 1 in the GIF shows the new design for the TEP circuit-- it is obvious. (I have drawn the TEP coil as a counterwound coil rather than a folded back coil because it makes the energy flow easier to see-- for me at least-- but the principle is the same.) The TEP is completely nonreciprocal because not only is there no inductive output from the TEP coil, the amplification occurs when L3 is turned OFF. There is no way that the voltage generated in the TEP coil can affect the off state of the driver! If TWO TEP coils are built, then the INPUT circuit can also be made resonant by the simple expedient of making it a tank circuit and passing the positive and negative halves of the sine wave through two gated branches, each of which contains a TEP coil. This is shown in drawing 2. [I forgot to put in the "CW" and "CCW" notations in this picture]. This will result in a little loading of the input because the output L will be changing as the input is still "on", but this disadvantage will be compensated by the much lower energy needed to maintain the input. There are other factors. Inclusion of a LINEAR magnetic material in the TEP core will increase the parametric amplification even more because the depth of variation of the L in each cycle will be increased greatly. I suggest a LINEAR material so that the output waveform will still be a typical parametric sine, ready for the power outlet :-) Also-- the "overefficiency" of the circuit is limited by the intensity of the magnetic field generated by L3, since it must be equal to the field generated by one of the branches of the TEP according to my theory. "Large coil" techniques could be used for this purpose. The overunity nature of this device arises from the cancellation of the fields in the TEP coil. It is possible that "scalars" are generated by this cancellation, but the cancellation itself allows for the change of inductance without doing work. The question of HOW the magnetic field or inductance is cancelled brings in the whole hornet's nest of scalar theory, and undoubtably leads to the answer to the question "where is the energy coming from?" 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19EOdq44W//nQHeTMmmRAV+KhQPSNIF+XO4L9bvc/OqHwjmOqnvtuEL9lKC/FbARADsy35jGMQDw kA6L2zBi/4g3HtRoDhbvA5PsGAAB+FBAfprjCJnO9o0ogUNVppDg8vQCAepQxzo7yt6LXELHVbLy KN0LDye0Rg7xvMUcLgkSoHzIrQek6XKhmKQZhaOpVHDjFRGAhXOQZ78dLMBCdtljK6MpzThBc5rW vCY2s6nNbXKzm978JjjDKc5xkrOc5jwnOtOpznWys53ufCc84ynPedKznva8Jz7zqc998rOf/vwn QAMq0IEStKAGPShCE6rQhTK0oQ59KEQjKtGJUrSiFr0oRjNHqtGNcrSjHv0oSEMq0pGStKQmPSlK U6rSlbK0pS59KUxjKtOZ0rSmNr0pTnOq053ytKc+/SlQgyrUoRK1qEY9KlKTqtSchgAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_01BCB6CB.67B89E60-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 14:19:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA11219 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:19:43 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:19:43 -0700 X-Envelope-From: stevek@bmts.com Mon Sep 1 14:19:41 1997 Received: from alice.bmts.com ([204.191.100.11]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA11197 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:19:39 -0700 Received: from bmts.com.bmts.com (ts1-ap06.bmts.com [204.191.100.106]) by alice.bmts.com (8.8.5/Contact Admin) with SMTP id RAA11606 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 17:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <340B3110.14DA@bmts.com> Old-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:18:08 -0400 From: Steve Reply-To: stevek@bmts.com Organization: DarkNet Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator References: <199709011812.LAA13228@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: > Richard is right, this is a fairly standard electrolytic device. There > IS a good O/U "water-cracker" as I like to call them, the Puharich patent. The patent number is 4,394,230, and I have checked several patent searches, and none of them have more than just a basic description of the patent. Does anyone have an online copy of the full patent, or know where I can find one? thanks! -Steve King -- Steve (aka DaRkLoRD) | darklord@darknet.net UIN: 2149500 | www.darknet.net/darklord DarkNet Technologies: http://www.darknet.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 14:35:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA13866 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:35:30 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:35:30 -0700 X-Envelope-From: stevek@bmts.com Mon Sep 1 14:35:28 1997 Received: from darknet.net (darknet.net [192.41.42.75]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA13840 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:35:27 -0700 Received: from bmts.com.bmts.com ([204.191.100.106]) by darknet.net (8.8.5) id RAA26602; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 17:37:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: darknet.net: Host [204.191.100.106] claimed to be bmts.com.bmts.com Message-ID: <340B34C3.66CB@bmts.com> Old-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:33:55 -0400 From: Steve Reply-To: stevek@bmts.com Organization: DarkNet Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: > Richard is right, this is a fairly standard electrolytic device. There > IS a good O/U "water-cracker" as I like to call them, the Puharich patent. The patent number is 4,394,230, and I have checked several patent searches, and none of them have more than just a basic description of the patent. Does anyone have an online copy of the full patent, or know where I can find one? thanks! -Steve King -- Steve (aka DaRkLoRD) | darklord@darknet.net UIN: 2149500 | www.darknet.net/darklord DarkNet Technologies: http://www.darknet.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 14:45:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA07181; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:44:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: darknet.net: Host [204.191.100.113] claimed to be bmts.com.bmts.com Message-ID: <340B368A.190A@darknet.net> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 17:41:30 -0400 From: Steve Reply-To: darklord@darknet.net Organization: DarkNet Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zuvSf1.0.5m1.tSp2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/390 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > Richard is right, this is a fairly standard electrolytic device. >There IS a good O/U "water-cracker" as I like to call them, the >Puharich patent. The patent number is 4,394,230, and I have checked several patent searches, and none of them have more than just a basic description of the patent. Does anyone have an online copy of the full patent, or know where I can find one? thanks! -Steve King -- Steve (aka DaRkLoRD) | darklord@darknet.net UIN: 2149500 | www.darknet.net/darklord DarkNet Technologies: http://www.darknet.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 14:45:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA02209; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 12:45:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 12:45:00 -0700 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709011831.LAA16424@mail1.halcyon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 15:44:12 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: TEP is parametric! Resent-Message-ID: <"D33hx1.0.QY.xin2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/389 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 2:37 PM -0400 9/1/97, Fred Epps wrote: >[...] > >If TWO TEP coils are built, then the INPUT circuit can also be made >resonant by the simple expedient of making it a tank circuit and passing >the positive and negative halves of the sine wave through two gated >branches, each of which contains a TEP coil. This is shown in drawing 2. >[I forgot to put in the "CW" and "CCW" notations in this picture]. This >will result in a little loading of the input because the output L will be >changing as the input is still "on", but this disadvantage will be >compensated by the much lower energy needed to maintain the input. why not just use one TEP coil and drive it with a full-wave bridge? (what am I missing here?) also, did you really mean to draw that short circuit across the input on the right of the 2nd TEP coil? :-) r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 15:11:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA10542; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 15:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 15:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709012209.PAA11734@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" , Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 15:16:03 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Jb-9u.0.ca2.arp2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/391 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Steve, the full text of the patent is at: http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4394230 > > The patent number is 4,394,230, and I have checked several patent > searches, and none of them have more than just a basic description of > the patent. Does anyone have an online copy of the full patent, or know > where I can find one? > > thanks! > Steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 16:28:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA18064; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 16:27:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 16:27:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709012321.QAA05612@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: TEP is parametric! Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 16:27:55 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"t1B6B.0.8Q4.gzq2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/392 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Ralph, > >If TWO TEP coils are built, then the INPUT circuit can also be made > >resonant by the simple expedient of making it a tank circuit and passing > >the positive and negative halves of the sine wave through two gated > >branches, each of which contains a TEP coil. This is shown in drawing 2. > >[I forgot to put in the "CW" and "CCW" notations in this picture]. This > >will result in a little loading of the input because the output L will be > >changing as the input is still "on", but this disadvantage will be > >compensated by the much lower energy needed to maintain the input. > > why not just use one TEP coil and drive it with a full-wave bridge? > (what am I missing here?) The energy in the tank is not being USED by the TEP coils. The way I have it set up the two two branches appear as a single unloaded inductor, and the resonance of the tank is maintained. > > also, did you really mean to draw that short circuit across the > input on the right of the 2nd TEP coil? :-) Whoops, my secret is out.. that's how the little scalars get in :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 17:36:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA11891; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 17:35:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 17:35:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: darknet.net: Host [204.191.100.113] claimed to be bmts.com.bmts.com Message-ID: <340B5F08.3A84@darknet.net> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 20:34:16 -0400 From: Steve Reply-To: darklord@darknet.net Organization: DarkNet Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator References: <199709012209.PAA11734@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1apV03.0.hv2.izr2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/393 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Fred Epps wrote: > > Hi Steve, > > the full text of the patent is at: > > http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4394230 Thanks Fred! I don't know how I missed that before.. heh.. ttyl -Steve King -- Steve (aka DaRkLoRD) | darklord@darknet.net UIN: 2149500 | www.darknet.net/darklord DarkNet Technologies: http://www.darknet.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 18:15:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA00667; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:09:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:09:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709020108.SAA05993@germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: TEP is parametric! Resent-Message-ID: <"5YhqJ3.0.GA.BTs2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/394 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Fred, Maybe I've missed something all along on parametric circuits, but how do you make a bifilar resonant (series with a capacitor and load) if it ideally has no inductance? Are you referring to the small imbalance between L3, the driver coil, and each of the 2 bifilar windings producing a small coupled inductance in the bifilar coils. This imbalance isn't "designed in", is it? If it's something else, could you please explain the inductance "supported by L3" in your post? Then is it resonant only when L3 is ON? Thank you for your help. -Dave >Jean-louis, operating this circuit in DC form means you are running it in >its LEAST efficient form! If the output circuit is resonant, the >amplification will be applied to the voltage of the previous cycle and the >energy gain will be ASTRONOMICAL!... >Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 18:27:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA19288; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:27:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:27:09 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709020127.SAA27156@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: TEP is parametric! Resent-Message-ID: <"tBjW_.0.Hj4.hjs2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/395 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Fred, On 11:37 AM 9/1/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Jean-louis and others in the TEP team! > > >Your new "nonreciprocal" experiments completely corroborate my new theory >on TEP operation. > >The key to my theory is a statement made by someone on the list to the >effect that when L3 is "on" the system as a whole is NOT noninductive. L3 >supports one of the windings of the TEP coil so that it has a finite >inductance. When L3 is switched "off" the TEP coil returns to its natural >noninductive state. > >The L thus goes back and forth between a value typical of a usual coil to >the very low value of a bifilar coil. In the TEP V 4.21 bifilar coil section, the induction is zero when L3 is on or off. The bifilar coil cancels the M of the EM to give pure E field only. In the Sweet's device he uses this motional E-field to cohere the normally chaotic vacuum VPF to form a more coherent region to tap negative energy. Negative energy is a cold current different from todays positive energy and hot current. This provides the mechanism of >parametric pumping according to the formula E= 1/2Li^2 (as the L goes to >zero the energy in the coil must expand in order to maintain conservation >laws). <....> A conventional alternative mechanism could be that TEM 4.21 output circuit is like a negative resistor RLC circuit. The bifilar functioning like a negative resistor. One benefit is the time constant (T=RC) of a capacitor is instantaneously or negative time. This then would allow the charging of any size capacitor, to be used as output storage, to power the unit and any additional loads for ou operation. The TEM V 4.21 power output would only be limited by the output storage capacitors capacitance and diode voltage ratings. No scalar mechanism needed to explain 4.21 :-) Regards, Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 19:01:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA06023; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 19:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 19:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709020159.SAA04552@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: TEP is parametric! Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 19:06:09 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xi25g1.0._T1.WDt2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/396 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dave and all, Good question! Yes, the TEP coil has no (or very little inductance) when L3 is turned off. When it is on, however, it has the inductance of L3 (the other parts cancelling out). You would use the inductance of L3 to calculate the capacitance needed in the output resonant circuit, given that the output frequency must be HALF of the input DC pulse frequency. This is because the parametric "push" is given to the output circuit TWICE in each cycle, at current min and max. You could work from either a desired input or output frequency, but of course the first thing you would want to know is what is the inductance of L3, so you can pick a freq that gives you a capacitance that you can live with (cap available with right voltage ratings etc). > Maybe I've missed something all along on parametric circuits, but how do you > make a bifilar resonant (series with a capacitor and load) if it ideally has no > inductance? Are you referring to the small imbalance between L3, the driver > coil, and each of the 2 bifilar windings producing a small coupled inductance > in the bifilar coils. This imbalance isn't "designed in", is it? No, that should be eliminated as much as possible. L3 = L1 = L2 (taken as separate coils). > If it's > something else, could you please explain the inductance "supported by L3" in > your post? Then is it resonant only when L3 is ON? Basically that's the idea, it still operates at the same frequency when L3 is off, becasue it is driven by L3, but the inductance change is large, so there is a huge amplitude increase. > Thank you for your help. > -Dave Feel free anytime, I love to write email :-) > > >Jean-louis, operating this circuit in DC form means you are running it in > >its LEAST efficient form! If the output circuit is resonant, the > >amplification will be applied to the voltage of the previous cycle and the > >energy gain will be ASTRONOMICAL!... > >Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 20:31:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA14526; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 20:30:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 20:30:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709020329.UAA05248@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: TEP is parametric! Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 20:33:40 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cTyr13.0.tY3.PXu2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/397 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Michael, I said: > When L3 is switched "off" the TEP coil returns to its natural > >noninductive state. > > > >The L thus goes back and forth between a value typical of a usual coil to > >the very low value of a bifilar coil. You said: > In the TEP V 4.21 bifilar coil section, the induction is zero when L3 is on > or off. True, but the INDUCTANCE changes, parametric energy increase depends on inductance change rather than induction. The bifilar coil cancels the M of the EM to give pure E field only. > In the Sweet's device he uses this motional E-field to cohere the normally > chaotic vacuum VPF to form a more coherent region to tap negative energy. > Negative energy is a cold current different from todays positive energy and > hot current. This may be true, but it doesn't havre any meaning to me as a physical process. If there is no induction in the coil where is the E coming from? I thought a motional E-field required motion-- of either electron drift through a wire, or the conductor, or a magnet, or something... And the negative energy-- well, we define energy by measurements we take on it. If it makes a voltmeter register then ipso facto it is positive energy. I don't mean to be sound skeptical, you may well be right, but as a verbal model of a certain reality it doesn't point to anything that I can get a grip on...sorry...try breaking it down for me again.... > > A conventional alternative mechanism could be that TEM 4.21 output circuit > is like a negative resistor RLC circuit. The bifilar functioning like a > negative resistor. But in fact it is an INDUCTOR not a resistor. One benefit is the time constant (T=RC) of a capacitor > is instantaneously or negative time. If you put a negative resistor and a capacitor together you get an inductor! That's the principle behind gyrators or impedance converters. I suggest the wierd equation that might apply here is dT = dL/R where the time constant depends on the variable inductance. > > No scalar mechanism needed to explain 4.21 :-) The jury is still out on that one in my mind... Interesting thoughts, Michael. I'm in the strange position for me of advocating a more conservative and orthodox explanation. Next I'll be invoking Occam's razor and the conservation laws...... naaah :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 22:22:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA00498; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 22:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 22:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 22:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709020519.WAA23413@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: TEP is parametric! Resent-Message-ID: <"5y1DC.0.h7.q8w2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/398 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Fred, >I said: >> When L3 is switched "off" the TEP coil returns to its natural >> >noninductive state. >> > >> >The L thus goes back and forth between a value typical of a usual coil >to >> >the very low value of a bifilar coil. > >You said: >> In the TEP V 4.21 bifilar coil section, the induction is zero when L3 is >on >> or off. > >True, but the INDUCTANCE changes, parametric energy increase depends on >inductance change rather than induction. Sorry, show read the [magnetic] induction is zero... There is only an E field. >The bifilar coil cancels the M of the EM to give pure E field only. >> In the Sweet's device he uses this motional E-field to cohere the >normally >> chaotic vacuum VPF to form a more coherent region to tap negative energy. >> Negative energy is a cold current different from todays positive energy >and >> hot current. > >This may be true, but it doesn't havre any meaning to me as a physical >process. >If there is no induction in the coil where is the E coming from? >I thought a motional E-field required motion-- of either electron drift >through a wire, or the conductor, or a magnet, or something... There is a paper on this by Floyd Sweet(1) that can explain this better than I. >And the negative energy-- well, we define energy by measurements we take on >it. If it makes a voltmeter register then ipso facto it is positive >energy. >I don't mean to be sound skeptical, you may well be right, but as a verbal >model of a certain reality it doesn't point to anything that I can get a >grip on...sorry...try breaking it down for me again.... It is a model of what could be happening in TEP. Sweet, Hooper, Moray and others claimed to have ou units or unusual energy effects and gave models and theories to explain what happened and what results they got. Until we get more "data points," it is still just theory. >> > A conventional alternative mechanism could be that TEM 4.21 output >circuit >> is like a negative resistor RLC circuit. The bifilar functioning like a >> negative resistor. > >But in fact it is an INDUCTOR not a resistor. > >One benefit is the time constant (T=RC) of a capacitor >> is instantaneously or negative time. > >If you put a negative resistor and a capacitor together you get an >inductor! That's the principle behind gyrators or impedance converters. > >I suggest the wierd equation that might apply here is dT = dL/R where the >time constant depends on the variable inductance. >> >> No scalar mechanism needed to explain 4.21 :-) > >The jury is still out on that one in my mind... > >Interesting thoughts, Michael. I'm in the strange position for me of >advocating a more conservative and orthodox explanation. >Next I'll be invoking Occam's razor and the conservation laws...... naaah >:-) Yes it is confusing. If you have a chance take a look a Sweet's paper below and let me know if it clears some of this stuff up :-) Michael Ref: 1. NOTHING IS SOMETHING "The Theory and Operation of a Phase-Conjugated Vacuum Triode" by Floyd A. "Sparky" Sweet - June 24th, 1988 at : http://members.aol.com/overunity4/nothing/nothing.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 2 00:30:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA01829; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 00:29:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 00:29:44 -0700 Message-ID: <340BC068.362A@itmi-aptor.capgemini.fr> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 09:29:44 +0200 From: Philippe.Lebourg@itmi-aptor.capgemini.fr (Philippe LEBOURG) Reply-To: Lebourg@itmi-aptor.capgemini.fr Organization: ITMI APTOR X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator References: <199709011812.LAA13228@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5tQhT1.0.SS.d1y2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/399 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Fred Epps wrote: > > Hi Geoff, Richard, > > Because > Puharich's device worked so close to the theoretical efficiency he was able > to make a car that drove across country on a tank of water and (possibly) a > battery. > > I don't have the patent number handy at the moment, but a search on the IBM > patent server for Puharich should show it. I also have a detailed article > by Puharich on the construction of this device if you want it, Geoff. > > Fred > Thank you for sharing the article. I am sure number of us would appreciate its availability in zip form on a site or another. 'til soon to meet again. PhL From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 2 00:46:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA04251; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 00:45:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 00:45:50 -0700 From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 07:45:31 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3410c206.33222707@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <199708290123.LAA28589@nornet.nor.com.au> <3412d4d8.34524329@mail.eisa.net.au> <3409DCEC.4248@tiac.net> <340AD811.5D8884C8@ihug.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <340AD811.5D8884C8@ihug.co.nz> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JLQQ31.0.K21.hGy2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/400 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 02 Sep 1997 02:58:25 +1200, John Berry wrote: >I don't love the ideas of scalars anyway but static pressure must be a >scalar right? Yes. (Note that this means that voltage is also a scalar, as are also charge, capacitance, inductance, resistance, and just about everything else with which we measure electrical circuits :). >but the value of pressure decreases as you are elevated higher from the >ground so you have a scalar and a vector, also the value of heat from a >flame decreases as you get further away but it is still a scalar. [snip] The *change* in pressure with height is the gradient of the pressure, and is a vector. It has both magnitude and direction. I.e. the magnitude is the amount that the pressure changes per unit of height, while in this case the direction of the vector is from top to bottom. Change in "Heat from a flame" is the same story. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 2 01:20:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA08438; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 01:19:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 01:19:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199709020819.BAA30405@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" , Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 01:24:26 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"09Eo23.0.l32.imy2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/401 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Phillipe, I will be happy to scan it and send it to a site. I haven't heard back from Geoff about whether he wants it on his. Fred I also have a detailed article > > by Puharich on the construction of this device if you want it, Geoff. > > > > Fred > > > Thank you for sharing the article. I am sure number of us would > appreciate its availability in zip form on a site or another. > > 'til soon to meet again. > > PhL From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 2 07:39:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA11150; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:39:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 07:39:19 -0700 Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <9709020938.ZM6074@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:38:57 -0500 In-Reply-To: RoConroy@aol.com "Re: What do scalars REALLY represent?" (Aug 31, 1:29pm) References: <970831142349_-1334481475@emout08.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What do scalars REALLY represent? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"10yM2.0.zj2.IK23q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/402 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Aug 31, 1:29pm, RoConroy@aol.com wrote: > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/ Hey, neat stuff. Been looking into dome structures lately. Thanks for posting the infomation. -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 30 19:44:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA12723; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3408D88A.CCC45327@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 12:05:54 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2tec53.0.Z63.1gD2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/354 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, Just a short note for now. Go away for a week in Perth, (working) and I have 1,200 emails to go through. This email stuff is hard work. As to the SMOTs, I have been doing a LOT of basic experimentation in a major effort to understand the variations that I still see. If I STILL see a lot of variations, it really worries me the variation you guys will see. I am preparing a big site update with the results and how to get really SOLID rollaways. Basically I got the original "5 minute SMOT" right and messed up everything else. Amazing how the mind works. Sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees. Sorry. The exits and ramp lengths I use are all wrong. I went for max PE (lift height) with min or no KE (especially with the Mk2 design and its sharp 90 deg exits). Very wrong decision. What you need is the max of the SUM of PE + KE (angular) + KE (linear). Where this occurs on the ramp is where the exit should be. Observe the ball as it climbs the ramp and note where it starts to slow down as it encounters decreasing flux (the outer edge of the "Blue Hole"). This is where the exit should be. Then adjust the ramp length. Sounds simple now................. The rolling surface for the ball should be a 14mm ID tube cut in half. My "5 minute SMOT" used the inside of a ball pen casing. The cut in half tube eliminates side sticks as a added bonus. This also helps the magnets to be lifted further above the ball. The centre of the magnet arrays should be at around 30-50% above the balls centre. This lifted magnet position results in more of the magnets flux being concentrated on the balls upper half and hence assists the balls rotation and roll up the ramp. The increased magnet height on exit also reduces magnet drag back. Inclining the magnet arrays steeper than the ramp's incline helps even more. The design of the magnet array should provide just enough flux to hold the ball stationary on the ramp. This allows for static adjustments. Must easier than the previous "Climb and Drop" The position of the magnets should encourage the ball's natural rolling action. Magnet arrays on the ball's centre line are a real NO NO. The flat rollin length has been ignored so far, but is a REAL element in a SMOT ramp's performance. Also the distance of the magnets from the start of the ramp's incline comes into play as well. The magnet array can have a different angle to the ramp. It can increase faster than the ramp inclines. This and the elevated magnet array height really helps to get good rollaways. All of this work has been done with the Mk2 array design as most of you have experience with this magnetic array design and the new Mk3 array has its own problems which I don't want to get into yet. As to the SMOT kits and the rollaway verifications, I have rolled all of it into one. ; ; ; THE SMOT KITS WILL LEAVE HERE AS NO ADJUSTMENT "WORKING" ROLLAROUND OVERUNITY UNITS. Everyone who purchased a SMOT kit will have what they REALLY wanted. A desktop OU unit. ; ; ; The SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 design is both new and old. It uses 2 close linked ramps on a inclined board which produce a 1.5mm increased height "Rollaway" into the "C" shaped rollaround design I posted here earlier. The units will be approx 100mm wide and 300mm long. The SMOT Mk3 circular ramp is difficult to build and adjust. I will post the construction details when I ship the kits. More later. Better start into the 1,200 emails. Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy ............... YOU MUST BE KIDDING. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Aug 30 23:13:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA29668; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 23:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 23:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:05:38 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: John Tooker In-Reply-To: <34088EAF.70E5@sunherald.infi.net> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"smWAl1.0.TF7.tiG2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/357 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: My apologies for not replying! I've been fine tuning some stuff re my research, and consequently have been quite focussed. I'll be replying with new gifs, and the like, shortly. Again, my apologies for the delay. Regards, John R Tooker On Sat, 30 Aug 1997, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > > John Tooker: > > I'm sending this because I don't know if you've been getting my emails > (several friends say they aren't). Have you recieved any? > > Kyle > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 00:25:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA13837; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:25:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:25:42 -0700 Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 19:31:57 +1000 Message-Id: <199708310931.TAA17548@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Magnetic Rectifier Resent-Message-ID: <"iucGk2.0.2O3.rnH2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/358 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 08:36 PM 8/15/97 -0700, you wrote: >Have added new article to my web site on Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator by bernard Klien at 1945 invention Patent Article and diagrams at Also see Magnetic rectifier >http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/gas.htm Web site >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 http://members.tripod.com/~geoffegel Geoff Egel egel@main.murray.net.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 03:06:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id DAA11225; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 03:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 03:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34094004.7F496703@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 19:27:24 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex , List Server NeoTech , List Server Newman Subject: Diana X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H5FsB2.0.9l2.k7K2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/359 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To All who care about others and personal freedom, It is with much sadness that my family & I learned of Diana's untimely death. Our heart felt wishes go out to her family and sons. Too bad she didn't live in South Australia. Here we have anti stalking / harassment legislation and Diana could have gotten legal protection from the press's unwanted intrusion into her life which has now cost her so much. I would request you ALL to press for this type of legal protection. Tomorrow someone you love could be Diana. -- A Much Sadder Person, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 03:17:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA24844; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 03:17:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 03:17:03 -0700 Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 04:12:31 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: List Server Freenrg Cc: List Server Vortex , List Server NeoTech , List Server Newman Subject: Re: Diana In-Reply-To: <34094004.7F496703@microtronics.com.au> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"LdxEE2.0.546.TIK2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/360 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 31 Aug 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > > To All who care about others and personal freedom, > > It is with much sadness that my family & I learned of Diana's untimely > death. > > Our heart felt wishes go out to her family and sons. > > Too bad she didn't live in South Australia. Here we have anti stalking > / harassment legislation and Diana could have gotten legal protection > from the press's unwanted intrusion into her life which has now cost her > so much. > > I would request you ALL to press for this type of legal protection. > > Tomorrow someone you love could be Diana. I couldn't agree more! As a victim of stalking (my ex wife) myself, I urge anyone and everyone to consider the value of such laws. Regards, John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 07:29:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA10817; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 07:29:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 07:29:13 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970829180644.006ad510@multinet.net.il> X-Sender: BUSHI@multinet.net.il X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 18:06:44 +0300 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lev Robert Subject: Re: File Conversion, Help! In-Reply-To: <90489@.multinet.net.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"c8kug.0.we2.u-N2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/361 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 08:16 AM 28-08-97 GMT+0200, you wrote: >Hi John If still interested you can read postscript texts with Acrobat Reader by Adobe. It can be downloaded from adobe home in the free downloads. Robert >> I have a hard copy of the 1903 Whittaker paper. I could probably also >> get the 1904 paper from the University of Illinois library. I could >> scan it if someone would be willing to put it on a website or FTP site. >Hi! :) >I can make them available on my file page for my time travel page, if you >can scan 'em and send 'em to me e-mail. >Regards, >John > > > BUSHILEV From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 08:00:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA14667; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 08:00:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 08:00:06 -0700 Message-ID: <340994EB.625C@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 08:59:40 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Diana References: <34094004.7F496703@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xeqIB2.0.0b3.rRO2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/362 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > To All who care about others and personal freedom, > > It is with much sadness that my family & I learned of Diana's untimely > death. > > Our heart felt wishes go out to her family and sons. > > Too bad she didn't live in South Australia. Here we have anti stalking > / harassment legislation and Diana could have gotten legal protection > from the press's unwanted intrusion into her life which has now cost her > so much. > > I would request you ALL to press for this type of legal protection. > > Tomorrow someone you love could be Diana. > I heard about itlast night at 11:30 central time. I must tell you, I was shocked. I personally think those paparazzi should be charged with murder. After all, they have the wrecked motorcycle. Kyle Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 08:01:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA14847; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 08:00:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 08:00:51 -0700 Message-ID: <34099519.6F81@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 09:00:26 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Diana References: <34094004.7F496703@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ph0Is2.0.ud3.YSO2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/363 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > To All who care about others and personal freedom, > > It is with much sadness that my family & I learned of Diana's untimely > death. > > Our heart felt wishes go out to her family and sons. > > Too bad she didn't live in South Australia. Here we have anti stalking > / harassment legislation and Diana could have gotten legal protection > from the press's unwanted intrusion into her life which has now cost her > so much. > > I would request you ALL to press for this type of legal protection. > > Tomorrow someone you love could be Diana. > I heard about itlast night at 11:30 central time. I must tell you, I was shocked. I personally think those paparazzi should be charged with murder. After all, they have the wrecked motorcycle. Kyle Mcallister Note: I was almost in the middle of a wreck yesterday at Radio Shack. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 08:05:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA16368; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 08:04:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 08:04:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3409960B.1B18@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 09:04:28 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: John Tooker References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"miTqU1.0.c_3.JWO2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/364 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John R. Tooker wrote: > > My apologies for not replying! I've been fine tuning some stuff re my > research, and consequently have been quite focussed. > I'll be replying with new gifs, and the like, shortly. Again, my apologies > for the delay. > Regards, > John R Tooker > No problem. I was just curious as to wheter my mail was arriving. Would you like me to send those files by email or snailmail? Kyle Mcallister "May you live in interesting times" -Chinese curse From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 11:01:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA16712; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3409D9E1.982@tiac.net> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 13:53:53 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalars in uniform References: <199708292357.JAA00183@nornet.nor.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xIYZ73.0.154.z4R2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/365 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Peter Nielsen wrote: > > >> I have never seen a bifilar coil with even perfect _ internal_ suppression. > >> Have you? I suppose the key question is, how close to perfect do you need to > >> get to "click" into scalar mode? If you say "perfect", I say there is really > >> no such thing. If you say "near perfect", I say there is a gradient bewteen > >> that state and a perfect one, within which scalars will be produced to a > >> varying degree. > > > >Read my posts, I've never described PERFECT suppression Peter. Don't > >read things into my words please. > > > > I thought you said on several occasions that a scalar potential cannot be > produced if there is any EM still present. I quote one example from a > previous post by you, "Bearden appears to be correct in that all EM > expressions of the opposed potentials must be suppressed to yield pure scalars." > > Is that not perfect suppression? Or are you implying there are "impure" > scalars? What is the distinction you are making? I'm starting to feel like > I'm on the USS Eldrige. Suppression is not perfect cancellation. Take the two, one turn loop experiment Fred proposed. As we bring the two loops together, the flux of each loop moves to the sides of the loops opposite the other, opposing loop. This is because we have no potential there to oppose any vector expression of the fundemental potentials. As we have 'no' opposition to vector expression, our potentials 'leak' out as EM fields, rather than in a true scalar form. So its important to understand the difference between opposition, and "perfect" cancellation. With the possible exception of superconductors, we have no "perfect" electronic components, so there will always be some leakage. As long as there is always opposition, we can live with some small degree of loss in the form of EM leakage, but if we leave a path for EM expression that lacks opposition, we will noy yeild a scalar product, just as Bearden describes. > >Lets slow down, and take this one step at a time, it will make sense, > >and you are perfectly free to test everything and see for yourself. > > > >Bob Shannon > > > > Yes, I see we need to clear the decks. Aside from the question above, I > really have only ONE issue to clarify regarding your position. > > What do you believe occurs when two scalar potentials of differing intensity > meet? If we agree each is non-local, it is one thing. If we say a > directional field, or intensity gradient, results from the meeting, we > seemingly have another. Peter, this HAS been covered already. > The substructures you have previously acknowledged, > imply a spatial and directional relationship in the byproducts of scalar > interactions. Not at all, you may be operating under an "EM Theory bias" here. Substructures may be higher dimensions, our 'additional degrees of freedom' often mentioned in connection with scalar theory. This line of reasoning makes perfect sense out of the often contradictory evidence for biological effects of EMR in many studies, becuase the scalar substructures may be very different from case to case, and this data has not been included in any of the studies to date. This is due to the fact that scalar theory is not generally accepted, often misunderstood, and a significant lack of good detection equipment. > How can this emerge without a directional component, or > localized disparity, in the scalars themselves? By the very definition of what a "scalar value" is. Can you show me a directional component to temprature (not heat, which is a quite different thing)? But at the atomic level, we may have patterns of organization in the thermal motions of molecules, which is an analog to the concept of scalar substructure. > If we assume a directional > component, then it must be a function of the emitters, which brings us to > the crux of the matter. Again, if we assume a directional component, we cannot by definition be describing a scalar value. This is black and white, carved in stone. It's what the terms actually mean and describe. > How about a straight answer? C'mon Bob, blow me out of the water :-) > > Peter Nielsen Simply check the textbook definition of a scalar quantitiy, which you claimed to be using all along. You cannot describe a directional component to a scalar value, end of story. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 11:09:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA17434; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:09:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:09:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3409DBF5.29F3@tiac.net> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 14:02:45 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Capacitance of noninductive coils (Was Tesla Patent512,340) References: <199708261833.LAA03045@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kqEJi3.0.JG4.GDR2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/366 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ralph muha wrote: > > At 12:13 AM -0400 8/28/97, Bob Shannon wrote: > >ralph muha wrote: > >> which brings us to my next question, which is, would a signal > >> thru a shorted transmission line (given sufficiently close > >> proximity between the conductors) generate a scalar? > > > >Yes! > > what about transmission lines in general? Yes, under the specific conditions of EM suppression that have been outlined on the list already. > what I'm wondering is, could some of the health problems > reported by people who live near HV transmission lines > be caused by scalars produced by these lines, which > are not detected by the people who study these things > because they are not aware of their existence? > > r Yes, this seems to be supported by some data I have collected on the E/B/A field ratios. B field nulls associated with A field peaks may be the biohazzard condition. The recent move to lower E and B field emissions from power distribution transmission lines, by moving opposed current conductors into close proximity, may well make things far worse than they are now. A great deal of data is needed before we can be sure of this though. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 11:12:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA06373; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:12:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:12:15 -0700 Message-ID: <3409DCEC.4248@tiac.net> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 14:06:52 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars References: <199708290123.LAA28589@nornet.nor.com.au> <3412d4d8.34524329@mail.eisa.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xQaRx1.0.TZ1.zFR2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/367 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:23:18 +1000, Peter Nielsen wrote: > >So what about the issue of scalar gradients. > > Surely the gradient of a scalar is a vector, and hence no longer a > scalar? Thats the textbook definition of a scalar value. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 11:14:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA06733; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:14:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:14:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3409DD5E.247E@tiac.net> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 14:08:46 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars References: <199708280011.KAA24152@nornet.nor.com.au> <3404FAC8.5B8B@tiac.net> <3411d2ad.33969562@mail.eisa.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CZxH.0.2f1.kHR2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/368 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Wed, 27 Aug 1997 21:12:56 -0700, Bob Shannon wrote: > [snip] > >The bifilar coil has adjecent conductors with opposite current flows, > >but the bucking coils have current flowing in the same direction. > [snip] > Whether or not coils "buck" depends upon their physical placement. > Just like two magnets. Place them next to one another with current > going in the same direction, and they "buck". Place them one after the > other coaxially, and they attract. So should I assume from the above, > that you meant two coils that are either physically interwoven, or > next to one another (not coaxial)? > Note that two identical coaxial coils, placed end to end, with current > going in opposite directions will buck. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk Yes, I was describing current in adjecent wires within each coil versus the current in adjecent wires of an "opposed bifilar" coil. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 11:26:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA19181; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:25:40 -0700 (PDT) From: RoConroy@aol.com Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 14:23:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970831142349_-1334481475@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What do scalars REALLY represent? Resent-Message-ID: <"AODWf.0.ch4.XSR2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/369 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 97-08-30 12:21:35 EDT, you write: << In eastern philosophies there are considered to be 5 kinds of pranas (energies). How does the modern research into alternative energies relate to these energies from ancient metaphysical knowledge? Any takers? >> I am not familiar with the term "pranas" but am familiar with the ancient earth, fire, air, water, and aether. These being if I recollect properly; the cube, tetrahedron, octahedron, icosahedron, and dodecahedron. My hypothesis is that they refer to the unseen underlying structure of the universe which is seen macroscopically in the many ways that Nature presents itself. I believe there is a 5 pair basic structural symmetry to all of Nature, including the dynamic energy pattern of the aether. By harmonically tuning into that structure while using water as an aether insulator (Genesis 1:6-7), one should be able to extract that energy. For a metaphysical explanation see my WEB page: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/metaphys.htm For an graphic representation of the the 5 pair symmetry and practical applications, see: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 15:58:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA14577; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 15:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 15:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3409F41A.5E05@ctv.es> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 00:45:46 +0200 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga Reply-To: vramos@ctv.es X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JNaudin509@aol.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: BIFILAR COILS INTERACTION Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------385A56856F23" Resent-Message-ID: <"GARjK.0.fZ3.4SV2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/370 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------385A56856F23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Someboby know in wich direction scalar waves are propagated by a bifilar coil? I'm testing interactions between two bifilar coils. I placed two bifilars like diagram, and a conventional coil as "detector". For best signal receiving, the coils are placed like diagram, but the bifilar coils are on "opposite phase". Is absurd if the EM field is cancelled, but IS IMPORTANT!. A conventional sine wave (a little distortioned) is detected by the receiver coil (300mV), and the bifilar are drived by square wave, 40 KHz, 10V, (I don't have 1 Ohm resistors to measure current, rats). I'll post more tests soon. Vicente. -- Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga E-mail: vramos@ctv.es Home Page: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm Burriana (Castellon) SPAIN --------------385A56856F23 Content-Type: image/gif; name="BIF2.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="BIF2.gif" R0lGODlhiQEMAYAAAAAAAP///ywAAAAAiQEMAQAC/oyPqcvtD6OctBoAAra8cwxm3kiW5omm 6sp+mdjGzgvK9o3n+s4rYb+DAYfEovG4+iFTIeHyCY1KgZtpqWbNardci7M7+YLH5PJSbGag 0+y2m/mexef0OmUdx9v3/Lbe/dcnOKgVyGZImKhohGjWuAgZefNIRil5iXlFaJnZ6SnBqRH6 SVr6pOTTpLra5MH6WoM4ako7CHsbu4C7y9vrq1obvIilxmlY5eUzsircbIusa3yAB62sZn01 67w9RYywUX1RIUQePo32Ve0dYc7tnrZ+QaPLPv2d0C56je8U/5D/LmCXfDTmiZO3T8O3cnKi 8eP3CKDAiVb86QNXBUY7/o3kFt77mAobSH0ztFE8mcMiRoQiPZI8aE8ew5AP//0ziTJnDIIG kWksxhImTG8b+4lpJFGnUiprVg49p9AltH4ug9aE2pIazqVcszXIGDPqRYhB1WE9WzXsSLEO u7olwpPlT3vpRPikqvZlWqF5tb792yMuybni1NnliG/txpZWBQN+PKnpYZqiDKudSjgv2oZW r0L+zEKwz8Zs5aadmrgtBLyqQbtGAXDyU7pGhWJe+zVd66Kve5+IHRZx4dpDZ/Itrfmocc++ m3uhFvysXWzCpTM+bo41c+fc2R0Lrjv1S+J6kWM/Kn579/VAGxIOF378VcuMs6tPyn69xLqX /r+W9UzeTaC0ll+Be1H3X0zhoTbSbfSkx9mBBha4n4KZTSfeaA1qhxt+yk0IYmc0ZfYRf/Jt eB9lihEYInv7YcgWYvSJFR9y6F3HoYgtdvdiceCVpyGQe30IIV9E7phfUjAGmRFr1dmWY3nm KbkVkicpmWCMnYG1pYQqlrRalVZOhOWJZpL3JIO4TflgcmKOGVCZTAoXX5odFcmmiibCyR2V Uvpo449o1biZeVqqx6drfi4WHUh3arYdfDeel2iff3BJ2YXVOWjknoUe6mWlkPkJKo3JCUoa npP6t9CbojbjoW2ObrbpaV9OqYdRrr4aTKxmSmlWlrJGyiKA+PG6/pSvQc5WGpPpwXddnlDu iqwpHi75qJ2QQokji49WVq2igbyX7aAX5tbtrd9aFG5X1w7LrF72obhaQo5yRG27nrwb45Gc rlgooZBueqy+FB0L43GADryuwEjRa/Bfshg5a1/23lWfK59G7FzCpQIskpqn2tvonxwny0y0 eDZL8rddkgzmyW/9QnPNuNxqQsEy7wjWXTb/zMvOQv82S8pDH71MvkgvPQ7TTj8NddRS89HK HkpP/ckPOoNxNdaYENU1D2F7PYxhEXGxNdmwvgBRRGN7h6jacWrK7kAzyn3wnOAm4U/a6K6M 9za6zjV41VHxdpFBJSmHBbSBC+Qzapih/iLj4JXNc6nZVTv+uDuNA3O5ceTuLdPmpLaKOued Cw524p6CLRvpces4ueLbrl7L5KUTzgptWBWEs4SvbPk27nkwXjszkZ/TSo/F3G2y8c74PUTd YUp/sCTUY899995/D3744i8+Pt6els81FXkUi35F22ssw/twq9z+KajooLT819NfPyPgMGWD q2WneP0DBQFtxQQBHqmAZzjCcnKGgwEekIHBE1v83gS9jVEwCP4zXAIj+LcNVi8aOGFX71Sg v3q0R4SBYRzzOtA3TJ3vDims1/NYKLbXKWF0pmlSD0kou/M86SbSuCEO8ZeKWvmwLAVZYpPu dJjRJE+D6iKK/sqsd8QAzmQlVgzdbXYIxSHhq4JFMlqAyJJFLeqJcpi6XKswEkV57e6JNIrd 6czVF8mkMTIjil0QS4dGQ0HRcLlACDGsp7qDCOyFe9wJ8vQInhIy8ndRbF3MFOMxnkywgDW0 n2ru90aPUA5w0Wsk0coWKkCGzhWbpGAnh5G0AJpSP62c5ahqaUuJvTKXBsIiLyvly18Kc5jE LKYxj4nMZCpzmcxspjOfCc1oSnOa1KymNa+JzWxqc5vc7KY3vwnOcIpznOQspznPic50qnOd 7GynO98Jz3jKc570rKc974nPfOpzn/zspz//CdCACnSgBC2oQQ+K0IQqdKEMbahD/h8K0YhK dKIUrahFKYTLizoSOi3IqEL/xz4IavSCl0zCSMfhQeg9EA4nzc0tMJmhfHn0nZLypWP4Fji/ uKWmEbopCmfaMZ3uVFeX9ClLkZar2ADVasCD0LIGAzraIHKpXDEaFXcpjHI8FWOUrMoJn0dV lMBCT6Q8ZScs1yxtpXV3BsSqpaLqFDmuCTagjERdbLewwdQkmIrkGBvlMsSyJo2vdABGSqmj 1fHQMRky4ZV9VAJJR2biq0CxUxMNawmrAhOtMENg23RG2KzltW17A+3wIoZIr/osiaYNqxSe CsPVpbRhL9wqJdwqCNh+QLamyxZD/tXaK5Fog3TsYuuA/ouUlcLqdvU75P2WyDw4OjdM//Ic Xl2p1SfGMbrN0y13x0jGs4b2e6s9IWSdRL7DIa6lsWiiVIZr1sa2lIhR3atr5+vG690Xv8/Z bxY0y99KAI1mAdbigA+M4ATvopTt3NqlGCugnCnYv2ibsC9cR2H8PZi52Clphz8Yy6paeMQk Nu8ZNvzhkTUoYyEVkTZwewl/cQizJa6xzXBqExUDC7Es5h+DDeXSmX0yK5HdcZt0lOK5tnW8 EeaM6hJJLC+hOEJAlq+7PjljdJxxgIDLIJUBmGMjE+/LXq4ulKOEOnf5KyshHPMaWZXKKMM5 vnC+m0o7dMbG5DlAL8rwFris/rAu5wjQSIayIEOWZxKUCUjgtTK8aLUqITGnukkc6pBhCjOi sjnTMxSzvHa56Bll0GWBOnKpT5PoNIv40nmcc6ci3ZQqynqSTPZwm0S95w4hatBvVvIkUcZq irnay/1yNa5m7Wa62vDUjA7ZpCPNsmcLtta9uuvLbhcs4XXZ1H/SYXif02Q+b9llZS7jl7Jt a51Ye61KdljLjG0jaFMa1EltNR5nV25dS9vXVMweGsVt7EUW21vF8vbsXBBmO0dKqIHmtbnj jGSxZspYK7w2xQmeok0fHNxO5vPC3bQyh+u73xG/0sRRXXFJ9zpd2tY4xFGacI8fiNSLRLen OzW//ivP5+LnjhKlaYdskL2chjF3qqpGzjAxHv3lMNZeH+dTZJWjnNs3d/F9xFShJEfbszq+ N61MzS+d32vqPb96uzEuZ9phPVf2thiAeozpr7s83Tmp03LWm2yhq8rnsE65V5w86TLSfO/7 7nqVh/4Ou5O98EA/O9wDptwfwzyEIqcUh4+NyZUK/Ntzs4adtWysvlM93zzf+ORXiOZwT9nr edd6m5PleYCDXXdG7yzpF494Axa1rKuyOeZbf2bd7zT2b2/Zz9FM6MYrvcUIpzzvj+z7831e XcJf9XuHNOxEIx/Whv75HxUt1BkvXeuSYvy8+E3yzldM7mWfuXIZ9akF/hZl7bvXe++JfG78 p53uws1Q4Lk9au+3QN22G1pGf85nf9Cnf9jHgKYHRGJXMhaHdApzfPJWcIKGYxdTewMDafvH bknnAn5WCAiCe4YnfdDmesCSelilVGHAe+P2eL53eOlVVZ43dwFTH5GHDjjibn73d52VZM7D fhN4R4HGeXFigxv4f3iWcfmHM5vHglGHdEKoZwBYfB7og3WXhHo3hJYXfyk3gMKWhSH2gHCX OXdngVyHgzlXg6lBKKDXgF24LdonffzHSkFmhZc3fTFIeIJVcv52D4kUhtHHd8Y3eqn3fWRY aY/GiAQyb3xIfWwIe4lhc8mHc0soPNoXiUak/myc+HAE2IG/JnViKIoz+Idk8hCVOIge2Gmf Jm+bl4h36Ikjd37NtoZTOEMII4KF8FtZ5oi5JniGCICp5mgS9nq0iIJxZ4Lud4RNZ1dhtHwt F2ZC9IvDSEbUBlY1Y4dh0IPHWH7UNTPc93G/sYj7E4z4hkE2po7rCEfgUlfqJo5r0nQFU4tW t4049ko380bsqI1qxo//2F7WGGfO+HSKEFi+UUkAqZAkFgQeswlG2Cfx8mVy4EfDcTML+Y4d 5ZC2AJEd05F24EL6GEHXxZGm+BptdFanmBKSV1gfiZAs+ZAmCUIEeQou2RtsUwobOUI0eWIy qSg+aZA1yZNIAFITkIKTOQmUFzSUDnSUvbSUvDhTGZlbMAka2FhYUtlCuwhBT1ltXPlasZiV MUaVozKWmwBUXlkEJBmRVvkGOHmWWqkJaJmTOmlXhwMFbClgckkKcTWX9qOXWQmXV4mXczCY 2VCYFVaW+ORBiYCSBdVUqJSUiqmSgvmX21SUBXYIh4mZm8mZnemZnwmaoSmaU1MAAAA7 --------------385A56856F23-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 18:35:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA14667; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 18:34:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 18:34:30 -0700 Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 19:40:25 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 In-Reply-To: <970831190441_2083199684@emout20.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5I4xX1.0.3b3.bkX2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/370 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 31 Aug 1997 PROTIEUS@aol.com wrote: >>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 19:04:42 -0400 (EDT) >>From: PROTIEUS@aol.com >>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> >>hello, curious ...what does this "SMOT " DO..? >> >> PROTIEUS, Visit http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson for all your o/u questions and for the originator of the SMOT... --If you have more questions after that (lot's do as it is a very interesting 'oddity' at this point, please reply to the group-list here. Others have included Gravity, Time, Space, Mass, Volicity, Magnetizism, Zero Point Force & Energy and perpertual depeleting flux from ??? ) -- Not so much, what is DOES, but that it even does it at all :) best regards -=se=- Oh, "it" can make a steel ball roll UPHILL (pulled/pushed) by magnets and then "LET GO" and roll away from the magnets all by itself when properly adjusted. Uphill is weird enough, the roll away is impossible, but there it goes!! Build one yourself from the on page information ... cost about $10-$20 . . From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 20:33:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA22464; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 20:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 20:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 23:27:15 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: What SMOT does...Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 In-Reply-To: <970831190441_2083199684@emout20.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8-hmM.0.tU5.4TZ2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/371 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Prot, SMOT lifts steel ball bearing a moderate distance against gravity and allows bearing to exit at elevation. My independent replication.... with "hats off" to Greg Watson for his effort in description and principle work is able to lift bearings of 3/8 , 1/2, 7/8 and 1.25 inches diameter, the last being over 5 ounces in weight. It will lift any one of these ... not all at once... and requires no adjustment once set up. The smaller bearings really zip along! JHS On Sun, 31 Aug 1997 PROTIEUS@aol.com wrote: > hello, curious ...what does this "SMOT " DO..? > It also may cause headache in certain theorists and experimental phyisicists .... ") > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 21:35:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA28554; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:32:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3409DBF5.29F3@tiac.net> References: <199708261833.LAA03045@mail1.halcyon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:30:39 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Capacitance of noninductive coils (Was Tesla Patent512,340) Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"KYNUR2.0.2-6.7La2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/372 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 5:02 PM -0400 8/31/97, Bob Shannon wrote: >ralph muha wrote: >> >> At 12:13 AM -0400 8/28/97, Bob Shannon wrote: >> >ralph muha wrote: >> >> which brings us to my next question, which is, would a signal >> >> thru a shorted transmission line (given sufficiently close >> >> proximity between the conductors) generate a scalar? >> > >> >Yes! >> >> what about transmission lines in general? > >Yes, under the specific conditions of EM suppression that have >been outlined on the list already. so what happens when two scalar-producing transmission lines intersect (eg, at a right angle)? doesn't that produce a vector? what could be detected at such an intersection? could you measure the scalar product of a transmission line by looping it back so that it intersects itself and then measuring the vector produced at the intersection? also, would the scalar product of a twisted pair line be different from that of a straight pair? r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 21:35:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA03362; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:35:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:35:09 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:34:51 +1000 Message-Id: <199709010434.OAA04554@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: USS Eldrige disappears Resent-Message-ID: <"9r15b.0.Lq.xNa2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/374 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Sorry, Bob it seems to me that you are just tinkering with words, and avoiding the thrust of my inquiry. You are reiterating things, which no one has disagreed with, to support an argument against something which I am not even saying. The result is a pretty unfocussed thread, that I suspect no one has gotten anything out of. Quibbling over words is not a major priority for me. I already own a scientific dictionary, and, not surprisingly, it doesn't provide adequate information for building a FE device. A number of researchers have supported the concept of scalar potentials, which intersect to produce enfolded or virtual polarities. It is presumed these are the precursors of atomic particles. Whether you call them "scalar", or not, by formal definition, is a fine point. You certainly have not offered a better alternative, from which to proceed on common ground. I am more interested in the modelling than bagging people. Anyway, they are not EM. My contention is that the interactive properties of these nameless things, which I term "scalar vectors", NOT vectors OF scalars, but non-EM vectors PRODUCED by scalars, are determined by the plane of opposition which originated them. This was in reference to our attempted understanding of the intermediate vectoral translations within coils, and how they might relate to gain. I will not be pursuing this thread further. Out of respect for your previous contributions to this list, you are welcome to have the last word, if you so choose. You may still notice a flickering on the horizon. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 21:37:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA29245; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:36:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:36:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:34:45 +1000 Message-Id: <199709010434.OAA04548@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Scalar arcade game HERE! Resent-Message-ID: <"xoh3s1.0.m87.1Pa2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/373 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Since a scalar is a generic term, it seems to me that this discussion >would be much more rapidly advanced, if everyone stopped using the >generic term, and used instead the correct specific term in each case. >IOW if I am not mistaken, all the "scalars" being referred to here >each have individual names. Let's just use them. It avoids a lot of >confusion (and exposes much ignorance :). > Get idea. How about giving us a list of the specific terms you recommend. Peter nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Aug 31 22:10:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA01987; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 22:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 22:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709010508.WAA25385@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" Subject: old computer gave up ghost Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 22:15:14 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HuIXJ2.0.yU.Zua2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/375 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi all! I have been incommunicado since last weekend because my work computer is acting funny... Home now and will be spewing out my usual 90,000 messages soon :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 00:35:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA15556; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709010733.AAA26190@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Capacitance of noninductive coils (Was Tesla Patent512,340) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 22:55:29 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"E-FDH2.0.zo3.q0d2q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/376 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Robin, all, > >coil approaches zero, then of course it is below u. We can assume it is > >some very small value. For any very small value of L of such a coil, there > >will be a range of possible values of C where the LC product is ABOVE ue > >and a range of possible values of C where the LC product is BELOW ue. > > Unless I'm mistaken, ue and LC do not have the same dimensions. > There seems to be an 'area' factor missing. Could someone please > explain? Yes, the permittivity of free space is measured in F/m and the permeability of same is in H/m. This implies space is being treated like a transmission line. There's no real contradiction to what I'm saying as the C and L over a unit length of the coil would be the corresponding measure. As Jack Demule, and I think someone else, has pointed out, the bifilar coil CAN be treated as a shorted transmission line, but it seems to me that this begs the question because the distributed capacitance would only be zero if the energy travels through the coil instantaneously-- in the real situation one needs to use the C value between two unit lengths of the wires in the coil to know something about its behavior. Am I right on this? In learning mode about transmission lines, Fred rom freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 00:34:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA03180; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:34:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:34:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199709010733.AAA29760@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: The inertial tap Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 23:42:27 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"K9_oH3.0.bn.k_c2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/377 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Hi Dave, > I was reading in a late 1940's book on magnetic control the idea of a load coil > (AC) on a ferromagnetic core controlled by DC in a control winding. The problem > with a simple 2 coil arrangement is that the AC was introduced into the DC > winding, or the DC winding appeared as a short circuit to the AC. The solution > was 3 windings on each leg of an "E" core. The 2 outer windings were > connected in series so their flux was cancelled in the center leg where the > control winding was placed. Thus no AC was introduced into the control > winding, which was used to vary the saturation of the AC coil inductance. > Sounds like Fred's idea of inertial tap. Yes this is a key idea in magnetic amplifiers and parametric transformers which I have devoted altogether too much BW to in the last few months. This idea DOES work (I stil get people writing to me to say that there will be no voltage output because the flux cancels-- they do not understand that energy can be transferred through variations in INDUCTANCE rather than through INDUCTION itself). The parametric transfomer is not an overunity device in its usual form but I think with some modifications it might be... unfortunately the inertal tap has a rather elementary flaw in it, which I have corrected in a new design which I will discuss soon. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 00:34:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA03230; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:34:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:34:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199709010734.AAA32498@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Scalars in uniform Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:22:38 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"igPCF.0.Co.r_c2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/378 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Bob, > Suppression is not perfect cancellation. > > Take the two, one turn loop experiment Fred proposed. As we bring the > two loops together, the flux of each loop moves to the sides of the > loops opposite the other, opposing loop. This is because we have no > potential there to oppose any vector expression of the fundemental > potentials. > > As we have 'no' opposition to vector expression, our potentials 'leak' > out as EM fields, rather than in a true scalar form. > > So its important to understand the difference between opposition, and > "perfect" cancellation. With the possible exception of superconductors, > we have no "perfect" electronic components, so there will always be some > leakage. > > As long as there is always opposition, we can live with some small > degree of loss in the form of EM leakage, but if we leave a path for EM > expression that lacks opposition, we will noy yeild a scalar product, > just as Bearden describes. I agree with your analysis of my thought experiment, and your explanation is clear and lucid. Thanks! It seems that the best way to go to test proximity in a real sutiation would be then (as someone suggested) to create a coil where the windings could be compressed gradually together and L readings taken along the way. Of course this isn't perfect because the last windings are still radiating EM but there should be some way around that. No more questions-- for now :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 1 00:34:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA03265; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:34:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:34:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199709010734.AAA02667@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" , Subject: Re: BIFILAR COILS INTERACTION Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:37:20 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AvXjO1.0.do.v_c2q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/379 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Vicente! I'm sorry, I can't tell from your description, is each of the coils bifilar or are you considering the two coils together "bifilar"? (What Bob would call bucking coils) And if they are individually bifilar, which KIND of bifilar windings are they? The type where a single wire is folded back on itself? > Someboby know in wich direction scalar waves are propagated by a > bifilar coil? > I'm testing interactions between two bifilar coils. I placed two > bifilars like diagram, and a conventional coil as "detector". > For best signal receiving, the coils are placed like diagram, but the > bifilar coils are on "opposite phase". Is absurd if the EM field is > cancelled, but IS IMPORTANT!. > A conventional sine wave (a little distortioned) is detected by the > receiver coil (300mV), and the bifilar are drived by square wave, 40 > KHz, 10V, (I don't have 1 Ohm resistors to measure current, rats). > I'll post more tests soon. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 2 10:26:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA06129 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:26:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: HLafonte@aol.com Tue Sep 2 10:25:49 1997 Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com (emout14.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.40]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA06088 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:25:47 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA28997 for freenrg-l@eskimo.com; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970902132122_974353672@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Time to magnetize X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: I need to find out about the "time to magnetize" aspect of metals such a ferrite, as the switching time in a spin balance system may be a shorter time period. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 2 10:33:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA07990 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:32:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:32:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: HLafonte@aol.com Tue Sep 2 10:32:36 1997 Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com (emout07.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.22]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA07860 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:32:27 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA14901 for freenrg-l@eskimo.com; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970902132852_1488679690@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: I DO NOT WANT TO UNSUBSCRIBE X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: I RECEIVED THIS> Subj: Re: Operational description of spin balance system Date: 97-09-02 13:07:01 EDT From: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com To: HLafonte@aol.com WARNING: Please try to use 'freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com' the next time when issuing (un)subscribe requests. 32760 HLafonte@aol.com HLafonte@aol.com You have been removed from the list. If this wasn't your intention or you are having problems getting yourself unsubscribed, reply to this mail now (quoting it entirely (for diagnostic purposes), and of course adding any comments you see fit). Transcript of unsubscription request follows: -- >From HLafonte@aol.com Tue Sep 2 10:06:40 1997 >Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com (emout18.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.44]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA00354 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:06:38 -0700 >From: HLafonte@aol.com >Received: (from root@localhost) > by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) > id NAA08500 for freenrg-l@eskimo.com; > Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:05:27 -0400 (EDT) >Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:05:27 -0400 (EDT) >Message-ID: <970902130342_1227160961@emout18.mail.aol.com> >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Operational description of spin balance system > >Anyone who would like an operational description of spin balance system after >having seen the drawings, please let me know. >Thanks, >Butch > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Received: from mrin39.mail.aol.com (mrin39.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.149]) by air01.mx.aol.com vx with SMTP; Tue, 02 Sep 1997 13:07:01 -0400 Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by mrin39.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA05047 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:06:57 -0400 (EDT) From: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA00421 for HLafonte@aol.com; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:06:51 -0700 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:06:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199709021706.KAA00421@mx1.eskimo.com> To: HLafonte@aol.com Subject: Re: Operational description of spin balance system References: <970902130342_1227160961@emout18.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <970902130342_1227160961@emout18.mail.aol.com> X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: junk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 2 10:58:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA12479; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709021756.KAA18332@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: TEP is parametric! Resent-Message-ID: <"xA6EI2.0.s23.BE53q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/403 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Fred and all, At 08:33 PM 9/1/97 -0700, you wrote: >> In the TEP V 4.21 bifilar coil section, the induction is zero when L3 is >on >> or off. > >True, but the INDUCTANCE changes, parametric energy increase depends on >inductance change rather than induction. Does this mean the bifilar resonant tuning isn't when L3 is on OR off, but only during the switching times? (bifilar as a transmission line) I am still trying to understand how the driver coil L3 is coupled to the bifilar so it can be made resonant. When I did tests on an opposing bifilar coil, I could not find a resonant point in that the inductances were cancelled. If L3 is coupled to both, how does its effect show up as bifilar inductance, net not =0? In Jean-Louis TEP 4.2, the bifilar seems to be wired in adding, looking at the right 2 terminals as output to the capacitor. But if the left 2 terminals (390 pF and diode) were shorted, Jean-Louis saw no TEP output. In your TEP parametric circuits the CW-CCW coils I assume are connected "in opposition". In your separate toroid circuits, the magnetic circuits were separate on individual toroids so the inductances would not cancel - is this an important distinction? Thanks again for your help. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 2 12:02:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA20643; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709021900.MAA18630@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: TEP is parametric! Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:47:07 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lKF_D2.0.R25.CA63q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/404 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dave and all, Very good questions AGAIN Dave :-) > >> In the TEP V 4.21 bifilar coil section, the induction is zero when L3 is > >on > >> or off. > > > >True, but the INDUCTANCE changes, parametric energy increase depends on > >inductance change rather than induction. > > Does this mean the bifilar resonant tuning isn't when L3 is on OR off, but only > during the switching times? (bifilar as a transmission line) I am still > trying to understand how the driver coil > L3 is coupled to the bifilar so it can be made resonant. When I did tests on an > opposing bifilar coil, I could not find a resonant point in that the inductances > were cancelled. If L3 is coupled to both, how does its effect show up as > bifilar inductance, net not =0? You're right, the bifilar coil has no resonance point in itself. My THEORY is that L3 when on "gives" the bifilar coil its inductance, even though it doesn't induce a voltage. Putting it baldly like that it seems like a screwy idea, and it may not work out. Since parametric amplification requires resonance, there needs to be a cap across the leads of the bifilar, and you need to vary the L3 pulse generator over a fairly wide range (depending on the cap), to make sure you don't miss the resonance point, if any. There will probably be more than one if there are any. In your TEP parametric > circuits the CW-CCW coils I assume are connected "in opposition". In your > separate toroid circuits, the magnetic circuits were separate on individual > toroids so the inductances would not cancel - is this an important > distinction? Yes. The CW-CCW coils are much more questionable. This idea may not work, as it requires the "borrowing" of the inductance from L3 as described above. On the other hand the voltage cancelling coils of the toroid gadget are a standard trick for eliminating inductive effects while keeping the parametric effects mediated by the core material. The problem with the toroid scheme that makes the CW-CCW coils so appealing is that with the toroids the output current also affects the L of the primary pulling power out of it by inductance changes. I believe the toroid gadget with large input coils minimizes this effect without eliminating it. If there is any effect on the inductance of the bifilar by L3 it shows a way to go, because there certainly won't be a reverse effect on L3 by the bifilar, so L3 remains unloaded. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 2 12:09:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA21403; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:09:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:09:31 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:07:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970902124452_974317178@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Drawing requests, spin balance system and balance section Resent-Message-ID: <"MQIlt2.0.JE5.dH63q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/405 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Anyone who requested drawings and did not receive them, please let me know, I think I got them all. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 2 13:09:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA09426; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:09:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:09:12 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 16:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970902160413_-1334256541@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Time to magnetize Resent-Message-ID: <"m6v403.0.9J2.d973q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/406 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I need to find out about the "time to magnetize" aspect of metals such a ferrite,(if such a thing exists), as the switching time in a spin balance system may be a shorter time period. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 2 15:19:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA16281; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:17:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:17:32 -0700 Message-ID: <340CB965.5116@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:12:05 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars References: <199708290123.LAA28589@nornet.nor.com.au> <3412d4d8.34524329@mail.eisa.net.au> <3409DCEC.4248@tiac.net> <340AD811.5D8884C8@ihug.co.nz> <3410c206.33222707@mail.eisa.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Q-rPw2.0.G-3.w193q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/407 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Tue, 02 Sep 1997 02:58:25 +1200, John Berry wrote: > > >I don't love the ideas of scalars anyway but static pressure must be a > >scalar right? > > Yes. > (Note that this means that voltage is also a scalar, as are also > charge, capacitance, inductance, resistance, and just about everything > else with which we measure electrical circuits :). Mechanical, static pressure, yes. Voltage, definately not. Voltage is defined as the "Potential difference" between two spatial points. This defines a vector, not a scalar. An electrometer is a scalar voltmeter, but a voltmeter with two leads cannot be described as a scalar device. > >but the value of pressure decreases as you are elevated higher from the > >ground so you have a scalar and a vector, also the value of heat from a > >flame decreases as you get further away but it is still a scalar. > [snip] > The *change* in pressure with height is the gradient of the pressure, > and is a vector. It has both magnitude and direction. I.e. the > magnitude is the amount that the pressure changes per unit of height, > while in this case the direction of the vector is from top to bottom. > Change in "Heat from a flame" is the same story. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk I agree, with the exception of the electrical measurments above. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 2 15:33:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA21653; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <340C920B.3D4C8C2C@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 07:54:11 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg Subject: [Fwd: Time to magnetize] X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------53A47D1FEF5235E34CD19514" Resent-Message-ID: <"-OIe11.0.CI5.1G93q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/408 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------53A47D1FEF5235E34CD19514 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson --------------53A47D1FEF5235E34CD19514 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (smartlst@mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by orca.microtronics.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7.NO-SPAM) with ESMTP id HAA14293 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 07:56:29 +0930 (CST) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA18013; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:26:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:26:19 -0700 Message-ID: <340C90E6.4DC5F60E@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 07:49:18 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time to magnetize X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <970902132036_-1803689721@emout17.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"33hf4.0.KP4.AA93q"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/10481 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > I need to find out about the "time to magnetize" aspect of metals such a > ferrite, as the switching time in a spin balance system may be a shorter time > period. Any help will be greatly appreciated. > Thanks, Butch Hi Butch, Typically I have found that the time from the application on a H field to the production of a B field is in the order of 10s of nsecs. Depending on the total magnetic path, the amount of Barkenhausen jumps, saturation can be reached in a few micro sec or less. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson --------------53A47D1FEF5235E34CD19514-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 2 22:44:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA05857; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:43:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:43:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199709030542.PAA27015@random.tpgi.com.au> X-Mailer: EnRoute for Newton, Version 1.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Generated by EnRoute for Newton) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:43 +1000 Subject: Re: new guy From: Allan Alderson To: "{Group} Free NRG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"2Wjpc1.0.QR1.FaF3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/409 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I too have had some experience with an the Adams motor design. You say the = compass spins when the electro-magnet is energised? Perhaps you should be = observing the magnetic field with a Hall effect IC and a CR0 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 2 23:19:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA10664; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 23:17:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 23:17:45 -0700 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 23:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709030617.XAA28997@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: TEP is system of self-organization Resent-Message-ID: <"32yS2.0.Uc2.74G3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/410 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Fred, Jean-Louis, TEM team and everyone, Another theory that fits the data on TEP V4.2 is Prigogine's system of creating order from disorder(1). Briefly Prigogine identified what types of systems tend toward increasing entropy or randomness and what kinds of systems tend to make random action toward macroscope order. The discovered criteria for systems of self-organization are open, nonlinear systems well away from equilibrium which are maintained by an energy flux through them. A simple example is the rectifier circuit: Diode ------->|-------------- / | \ Random --- Stored energy / Noise --- \ | ----------------------- Here, thermal noise from the resistor is channeled through a one-way valve of the diode to charge up the capacitor. Thus, energy in a random state (thermal noise) is channeled to produce energy that can be used for work (charged capacitor). The TEM output circuit is similar to this example and seems to meet the requirements of a system creating order from disorder. The bifilar coil output is like the Random Noise generator. "A hyperspatial flux model of the zero-point energy opens the possibility of tapping it as a source.....The ZPE fulfills the conditions of being highly non-linear in it interaction with matter, it can be driven from equilibrium with abrupt motion or electrical discharges, and it arises from a hyperspacial electric flux." A suggested experimental proof of this theory of TEM V 4.2 operation would be to add large storage capacitors on the output and measure the current I/O across a load. If this theory fly's then there should be greater output than input. :-) Regards, Michael Randall Ref: 1. Tapping The Zero Point Energy, Moray B. King, 1989. Prigogine won the 1977 Nobel Prize in chemistry for showing in thermodynamics under what conditions a system evolves from chaotic turbulence to a state of self-organization. At 11:47 AM 9/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Dave and all, > >Very good questions AGAIN Dave :-) > >> >> In the TEP V 4.21 bifilar coil section, the induction is zero when L3 >is >> >on >> >> or off. >> > >> >True, but the INDUCTANCE changes, parametric energy increase depends on >> >inductance change rather than induction. >> >> Does this mean the bifilar resonant tuning isn't when L3 is on OR off, >but only >> during the switching times? (bifilar as a transmission line) I am still >> trying to understand how the driver coil >> L3 is coupled to the bifilar so it can be made resonant. When I did tests >on an >> opposing bifilar coil, I could not find a resonant point in that the >inductances >> were cancelled. If L3 is coupled to both, how does its effect show up as >> bifilar inductance, net not =0? > >You're right, the bifilar coil has no resonance point in itself. My THEORY >is that L3 when on "gives" the bifilar coil its inductance, even though it >doesn't induce a voltage. >Putting it baldly like that it seems like a screwy idea, and it may not >work out. >Since parametric amplification requires resonance, there needs to be a cap >across the leads of the bifilar, and you need to vary the L3 pulse >generator over a fairly wide range (depending on the cap), to make sure you >don't miss the resonance point, if any. There will probably be more than >one if there are any. > >In your TEP parametric >> circuits the CW-CCW coils I assume are connected "in opposition". In your >> separate toroid circuits, the magnetic circuits were separate on >individual >> toroids so the inductances would not cancel - is this an important >> distinction? > >Yes. The CW-CCW coils are much more questionable. This idea may not work, >as it requires the "borrowing" of the inductance from L3 as described >above. On the other hand the voltage cancelling coils of the toroid gadget >are a standard trick for eliminating inductive effects while keeping the >parametric effects mediated by the core material. The problem with the >toroid scheme that makes the CW-CCW coils so appealing is that with the >toroids the output current also affects the L of the primary pulling power >out of it by inductance changes. I believe the toroid gadget with large >input coils minimizes this effect without eliminating it. >If there is any effect on the inductance of the bifilar by L3 it shows a >way to go, because there certainly won't be a reverse effect on L3 by the >bifilar, so L3 remains unloaded. > >Fred > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 02:21:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id CAA14576; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 02:18:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 02:18:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <340D26D5.24C34E37@ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 20:59:01 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: field inside charged box? (PLEASE HELP!!!!) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7uOPH3.0.eZ3.WjI3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/411 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello, I am inquiring as to whether or not there is an electric field inside an electrically charged box of un-equal potential but of the same polarity ( - ) , it is well known that there is not any field inside if the potential is the same but I need to know if there is any field if the potential is different but of the same sign ( - ). This is very very important and any help will be much appreciated. Thanks, John Berry From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 03:09:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id DAA20500; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:09:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9709020938.ZM6074@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> References: RoConroy@aol.com "Re: What do scalars REALLY represent?" (Aug 31 <970831142349_-1334481475@emout08.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 00:05:31 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: What do scalars REALLY represent? Resent-Message-ID: <"kQhxF.0.905.7TJ3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/412 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John - > On Aug 31, 1:29pm, RoConroy@aol.com wrote: > > > > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy/ > > Hey, neat stuff. Been looking into dome > structures lately. Thanks for posting the > infomation. Where did you see the message from Robert Conroy? Is he on the list here? I remember Robert form the Science Forum on Compuserve. He has some interesting ideas, and was taking quite a lot of flak for them over on the CSi dungeon. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 03:11:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id DAA20654; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 22:17:16 +1000 Message-Id: <199709031217.WAA05915@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Magnetic Rectifier Resent-Message-ID: <"ATq3y3.0.d25.SUJ3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/413 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 02:21 AM 9/1/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Geoff, > > I'm pleased to see that you have put information on Tesla's interesting >magnetic rectifier on your site. You should know that your variation using >a permanet magnet is part of Tesla's original idea. Do you have the article >"Method Of Obtaining Direct From Alternating Currents" which has this >"static" version included? > I had suggested on the list quite a while back that this PM magnetic >rectifier design might be able to rectify noise currents and provide a >small amount of power in itself. > >Fred > >> Also see Magnetic rectifier >> >http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/gas.htm > > I bought years a ago a copy of Health reseacrhes a title called Nikola Tesla Lectures*Patents*Aricles although expensive at the time to import to Australia I have always found it an intersting read never the less. I can't say I understand all of it but tesla was certainly ahead of his times. Geoff > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 03:20:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id DAA21742; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 22:26:42 +1000 Message-Id: <199709031226.WAA05971@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator Resent-Message-ID: <"8W8Gh.0.cJ5.1dJ3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/414 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 10:16 AM 9/1/97 -0400, you wrote: >I don't see any overunity application of this invention. It appears to be a simple electrolytic separator of oxygen and hydrogen from water which will require more energy in than out. Yes you are probably right about being no over unity but mmy page is not only about overunity but other sources of powering and placed there for interest of others and comment from people like you. Thanks for your interest Geoff > >>>>>Have added new article to my web site >>>>on Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator by bernard Klien at 1945 invention >>>>Patent Article and diagrams at >>>> >>>>>http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/gas.htm >>>>if this does not work try the ones below >>>>Web site >>>>>http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel >>>>http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/ >>>> >>The above addresses are correct Please try again >> >>Geoff > > >Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 03:25:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id DAA22325; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 03:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 22:31:49 +1000 Message-Id: <199709031231.WAA06016@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator Resent-Message-ID: <"7uI6L1.0.kS5.whJ3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/415 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:54 AM 9/1/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Geoff, Richard, > > Richard is right, this is a fairly standard electrolytic device. There >IS a good O/U "water-cracker" as I like to call them, the Puharich patent. >Andrij Puharich fed a certain combination of frequencies into the water >that were resonant with the bonds of the water molecule and broke down the >water molecule with near 100 % efficiency. I know very little chemistry, >but apparently the combination of H2 and O2 into water releases slightly >more energy than what's theoretically required to break it down. Because >Puharich's device worked so close to the theoretical efficiency he was able >to make a car that drove across country on a tank of water and (possibly) a >battery. > >I don't have the patent number handy at the moment, but a search on the IBM >patent server for Puharich should show it. I also have a detailed article >by Puharich on the construction of this device if you want it, Geoff. > I would like to see the Puharich Patent Thanks Geoff Egel >Fred > >> I don't see any overunity application of this invention. It appears to be >a simple electrolytic separator of oxygen and hydrogen from water which >will require more energy in than out. >> >> >>>>Have added new article to my web site >> >>>on Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator by bernard Klien at 1945 >invention >> >>>Patent Article and diagrams at > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 05:04:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA15446; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 05:04:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 05:04:09 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCB866.B8D3E240@que3-p12.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: field inside charged box? (PLEASE HELP!!!!) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:41:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCB866.B8DD0A00" Resent-Message-ID: <"a1NXS1.0.Fn3.u8L3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/416 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB866.B8DD0A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ---------- From: John Berry Sent: Quarta-feira, 3 de Setembro de 1997 8:59 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: field inside charged box? (PLEASE HELP!!!!) Hello, I am inquiring as to whether or not there is an electric field inside an electrically charged box of un-equal potential but of the same polarity ( - ) , it is well known that there is not any field inside if the potential is the same but I need to know if there is any field if the potential is different but of the same sign ( - ). This is very very important and any help will be much appreciated. Thanks, John Berry Hello John, I'm afraid there is. The electric field is the gradient of the = electric scalar potential, so in your case there is indeed an electric = field inside the box. Note that the absolute potential is not relevant here. Regards Antonio Vilela. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB866.B8DD0A00 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiYMAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAwAAAAUkU6 IGZpZWxkIGluc2lkZSBjaGFyZ2VkIGJveD8gKFBMRUFTRSBIRUxQISEhISkAHw4BBYADAA4AAADN BwkAAwAMACkAIwADADsBASCAAwAOAAAAzQcJAAMADAAkABYAAwApAQEJgAEAIQAAAEU4MUM1Q0Yy NTgyNEQxMTFCQkRCNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAPcGAQOQBgDMBAAAFAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAAL ACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkA4Ey8tma4vAEeAHAAAQAAADAAAABSRTogZmllbGQg aW5zaWRlIGNoYXJnZWQgYm94PyAoUExFQVNFIEhFTFAhISEhKQACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvLhmtrPy XBzpJFgR0bvbREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAFwAAAHZpbGVsYUBt YWlsLnRlbGVwYWMucHQAAAMABhCS9nysAwAHEJkCAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAAAtLS0tLS0tLS0tRlJP TTpKT0hOQkVSUllTRU5UOlFVQVJUQS1GRUlSQSwzREVTRVRFTUJST0RFMTk5Nzg6NTlUTzpGUkVF TlJHLUxARVNLSU1PQ09NU1VCSkVDVDpGSUVMRElOAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAJQMAACEDAABLBgAATFpG db5gYXL/AAoBDwIVAqQD5AXrAoMAUBMDVAIAY2gKwHNldO4yBgAGwwKDMgPGBxMCg7ozEw19CoAI zwnZOxX/eDI1NQKACoENsQtgbnpnAdA3DfALChLyDAFjDQBAIAqFCotsaTE4gjAC0WktMTQ0DfBn DNAcwwtZMTYKoANgdPsFkAVALR7nCocdmwwwHmY6RgNhOh/uHmYMgiBKlG9oA6BCBJByeR+PnyCd BmACMCHPIttRdQrAAQGQLWZlaXJhLPggMyANsAZRHpAG0ANgASlSMTk5NyA4Osw1OSRPIJ1UbyaP ItuDA1AJ4XJnLWxAB5DSawdwby4FoG0q7yVeeHViah6hLQ8uHAiQbLxkIAuAAJApYRGyZwmAAiAG 4Hg/IChQTABFQVNFIEhFTDRQITbRKRrvG/MzNm8dZxQiDAEeZkg0kBWQLEMKhTrnSSBhbTTBcbZ1 KPALgGc7kAQgdCoAvHdoEgA84AXABbFuHoD/PJA9ESlwBAA7kAOgNJAeoX0FEGM0ZAqFNNU+WQdA bAZ5NTo9QGYgdW4t5mU78AdAIHAegQIwBzGdNbB1BUBCAT0BIHM7oF5lCoVCwAtgBRB0QSAocR7Q ICkgKSBFED4Sd2k6MSBrPYB3A6A9AGH/Pak9ggBwQSA0ewaQCoVD0t9CyD4hQ9ZDUzuAbgngNLB/ PKFGgkkBPbpIJ0kvSjZkPwaQKNAWAAIwQ15EAGlnywOgRVMuNyxUaD4hPiH+dgSQQSBTIwdwQsAo kU/hzwBwNLBIAjzgbHA8wAMQs0NBKXBtdRGwO5BwHmA3BZAHMB6QZFG/AHBrc/8pIDrgI683nx1n GjQbTBnPPxtHI2I6I1gzOnY6iUknvTuwYQNQC3BL0T3VLlKR7ylwPoxKdgnAYU9wT9JDpb8+hwTw B0BEk0LlKSBzKgD5C4AgeQhhNTA8cClwPcf/C4ANsDWRPl80xkPSNcFWtt064k4egUbXO5BiZYAK QN9qYUnrPYIWAD6QdlQiPdKjVr0jU1JlZwsRc11a1kECMAIgaSoAVgMQNJAWYVa2FSEAcaAAAAAD ABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAQAAHMOA4Y/xluLwBQAAIMOA4Y/xluLwBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAA AAADAA00/TcAACFc ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB866.B8DD0A00-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 05:11:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA16510; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 05:10:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 05:10:57 -0700 Message-ID: <340D7D9C.A12@motown.lmco.com> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 08:09:16 -0700 From: francis x roarty Reply-To: froarty@motown.lmco.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: field inside charged box? (PLEASE HELP!!!!) References: <340D26D5.24C34E37@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"caR_o2.0.t14.GFL3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/417 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John Berry wrote: > > Hello, > I am inquiring as to whether or not there is an electric field > inside an electrically charged box of un-equal potential but of the same > polarity ( - ) , it is well known that there is not any field inside if > the potential is the same but I need to know if there is any field if > the potential is different but of the same sign ( - ). > > This is very very important and any help will be much appreciated. > > Thanks, John Berry John, I am not clear how you can get 2 potentials on a shielded box as the shield must be a conductor but assuming this condition polarity to an "off system" reference is pointless. The difference of the voltages across the box will be the only "amplitude" seen by the box and the only value that effects a field within the box. Have I missed your point? Frank From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 08:21:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA28050; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:20:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:20:07 -0700 Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <9709030940.ZM11399@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:40:58 -0500 In-Reply-To: Rick Monteverde "Re: What do scalars REALLY represent?" (Sep 3, 5:12am) References: RoConroy@aol.com "Re: What do scalars REALLY represent?" (Aug 31 <970831142349_-1334481475@emout08.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What do scalars REALLY represent? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"0iY5C3.0.Tr6.W0O3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/418 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 3, 5:12am, Rick Monteverde wrote: > Where did you see the message from Robert Conroy? Is he on the list here? The message came across freenrg-l. I am assuming you didn't get it or accidently filtered it. Actually it is only an oversight that I posted that response back to the list. Glad the "mistake" wasn't just a waste of everyone's time. Yes, I can see how he might get some flak over the metaphysical stuff. Interesting, but very provocative. Kick a bee hive, expect a few stings. -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 08:35:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA02289; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:34:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:34:48 -0700 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:07:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709031507.LAA03317@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: new guy Resent-Message-ID: <"ZLV89.0.YZ.NEO3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/419 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 03:43 PM 9/3/97 +1000, you wrote: >I too have had some experience with an the Adams motor design. You say the compass spins when the electro-magnet is energised? Perhaps you should be observing the magnetic field with a Hall effect IC and a CR0 > > > Excuse me. I didn't mean to imply that the compas spun. It mearly pointed to the coil when power was applied.If I put the coil at the north point of the compas the needle moved to show it is being affected by the coil but dosn't spin .As I understand Adams work when I disconnect the power to the coil there will be a collapse of the field and a reversing of the polarity will occur.I would think I would be able to see it on the compas needle by a little movement at least. Have you had any luck with the Adams design? Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 08:56:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA13185; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:56:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:56:02 -0700 Message-ID: <340D65F0.1227B82E@ihug.co.nz> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 01:28:16 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: E field(non-scalar "REAL")inside charged box? (PLEASE HELP!!!!) References: <340D26D5.24C34E37@ihug.co.nz> <340D7D9C.A12@motown.lmco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"C5wSX2.0.qD3.DYO3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/420 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A box made of metal, but the walls insulated from one another so they can have different potentials on them of the same polarity,eg...... 10kv on one wall 20kv on the opposite wall and 15 kv on all of the others (it's a cube) all of negative polarity. A real field with direction that will drive electrons. This is MOST important, Thanks for your response John. francis x roarty wrote: > John Berry wrote: > > > > Hello, > > I am inquiring as to whether or not there is an electric field > > inside an electrically charged box of un-equal potential but of the same > > polarity ( - ) , it is well known that there is not any field inside if > > the potential is the same but I need to know if there is any field if > > the potential is different but of the same sign ( - ). > > > > This is very very important and any help will be much appreciated. > > > > Thanks, John Berry > John, > I am not clear how you can get 2 potentials on a shielded box as the > shield must be a conductor but assuming this condition polarity to an > "off system" reference is pointless. The difference of the voltages > across the box will be the only "amplitude" seen by the box and the only > value that effects a field within the box. > Have I missed your point? > Frank From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 09:10:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA17208 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:10:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: HLafonte@aol.com Wed Sep 3 09:09:19 1997 Received: from emout03.mail.aol.com (emout03.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.94]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA17002 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:09:17 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout03.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id MAA23030 for freenrg-l@eskimo.com; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970903120333_1060137732@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Test X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: Test From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 09:31:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA22405; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:30:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:30:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <340DB9CF.1748@motown.lmco.com> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 12:26:07 -0700 From: francis x roarty Reply-To: froarty@motown.lmco.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: E field(non-scalar "REAL")inside charged box? (PLEASE HELP!!!!) References: <340D26D5.24C34E37@ihug.co.nz> <340D7D9C.A12@motown.lmco.com> <340D65F0.1227B82E@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hqY6B2.0.zT5.62P3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/421 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John Berry wrote: > > A box made of metal, but the walls insulated from one another so they can have > different potentials on them of the same polarity,eg...... 10kv on one wall 20kv > on the opposite wall and 15 kv on all of the others (it's a cube) all of > negative polarity. > > A real field with direction that will drive electrons. > > This is MOST important, Thanks for your response > > John. > Hi John, Sorry, I don't know where I got the idea the box was shielded. If I understand you properly these "plates" that compromise your cube are either connected to a bank of power supplies, or alternately the top plates of "flat" capacitors charged apropriately and then mechanically joined. My background is electronics and I understand polarity as a relative term, there will be a small efield between any dissimilarly charged plates irregardless of dielectric material but the plates will be positive or negative relative each others charge. Perhaps we are arguing syntax? I know you can have negative ion generators at different potentials and yet they both still produce "negative" ions. Your question probably makes much more sense to someone with a physics background but please let us know what you find out Good Luck Frank From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 12:01:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA02402; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:00:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:00:54 -0700 Message-ID: <340DDDB2.3FE2@motown.lmco.com> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 14:59:14 -0700 From: francis x roarty Reply-To: froarty@motown.lmco.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 References: <199708310356.UAA07006@germany.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1oM-g.0.Lb.aFR3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/422 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > Hi Greg, > <....> > >THE SMOT KITS WILL LEAVE HERE AS NO ADJUSTMENT "WORKING" ROLLAROUND > >OVERUNITY UNITS. > >Everyone who purchased a SMOT kit will have what they REALLY wanted. A > >desktop OU unit. > > Yes, great news! > > <...> > >Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy ............... YOU MUST BE KIDDING. > > > > Ha Ha Ha! Still laughing on this one!!! :-) > > Best Regards, > Michael Randall Hi Michael, I am also skeptical and would like to invite everyone who has purchased these kits to post their results here to this listserver. Frank From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 12:04:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA18476 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:04:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 12:04:04 1997 Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA18433 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by relay2.UU.NET with internal (peer crosschecked as: localhost) id SVdflc09962; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:02:43 -0400 (EDT) From: MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.uu.net (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message Message-Id: To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="SVdflc09962.873313363/relay2.UU.NET" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to ddeleo@ix.netcom.com bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: RO X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --SVdflc09962.873313363/relay2.UU.NET The original message was received at Fri, 22 Aug 1997 13:14:01 -0400 (EDT) from mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ,,... Deferred: Connection timed out with ixsrs2.ix.netcom.com. Message could not be delivered Message will be deleted from queue --SVdflc09962.873313363/relay2.UU.NET Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; relay2.UU.NET Arrival-Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 13:14:01 -0400 (EDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; ddeleo@ix.netcom.com Action: failed Status: 4.4.7 Remote-MTA: dns; ixsrs2.ix.netcom.com Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; perelman@ix.netcom.com Action: failed Status: 4.4.7 Remote-MTA: dns; ixsrs2.ix.netcom.com Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; parrish@ix.netcom.com Action: failed Status: 4.4.7 Remote-MTA: dns; ixsrs2.ix.netcom.com Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:02:43 -0400 (EDT) --SVdflc09962.873313363/relay2.UU.NET Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Return-Path: Received: from mx2.eskimo.com by relay2.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) id QQddsm19820; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 13:14:01 -0400 (EDT) From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA14974; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 10:03:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 10:03:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708221703.KAA14974@mx2.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #7 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/7 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --SVdflc09962.873313363/relay2.UU.NET-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 14:11:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA30030; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:10:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:10:34 -0700 From: MFergerson@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970903170630_1413065994@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars Resent-Message-ID: <"XLsRq3.0.7L7.99T3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/423 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John Berry wrote: >I don't love the ideas of scalars anyway but static pressure must be a >scalar right? >but the value of pressure decreases as you are elevated higher from the >ground so you have a scalar and a vector, also the value of heat from a >flame decreases as you get further away but it is still a scalar. About time I chimed in.... here goes. Static pressure is a scalar, sure. And the value changes with altitude, but does seawater flow from the seabottom to the surface? No. And does the atmosphere flow to space to equalize the pressure? Hasn't yet... This describes a static scalar field, not a gradient, not a vector. Of course, there is a force (gravity) present to oppose this flow, and that's what (I think) we're all trying to identify in the free-energy arena. Identify this opposing force, neutralize it selectively, and voila!-free power! Any thoughts? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 14:23:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA01170; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:22:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:22:44 -0700 From: MFergerson@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970903171929_673246480@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: field inside charged box? (PLEASE HELP!!!!) Resent-Message-ID: <"vqu4v1.0.3I.YKT3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/424 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: J. Berry asks: > I am inquiring as to whether or not there is an electric field >inside an electrically charged box of un-equal potential but of the same >polarity ( - ) , it is well known that there is not any field inside if >the potential is the same but I need to know if there is any field if >the potential is different but of the same sign ( - ). With AC fields, sure. Look up 'Cavity Resonators' in any book on advanced electronics. With DC, how do you maintain the potential difference? Or is the box an insulator? If so, the field is ALWAYS from high potential to low, no such thing as same polarity. If one point has more electrons than another, it's negative relative to the electron-poor point. If the box is a conductor, it will conduct and relieve the potential difference. Any help? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 14:34:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA04791; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:34:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:34:13 -0700 From: MFergerson@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970903172352_707290258@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: E field(non-scalar "REAL")inside charged box? (PLEASE HELP!!!!) Resent-Message-ID: <"kQXqr1.0.eA1.JVT3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/425 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: J. Berry clarified: >A box made of metal, but the walls insulated from one another so they can have >different potentials on them of the same polarity,eg...... 10kv on one wall 20kv >on the opposite wall and 15 kv on all of the others (it's a cube) all of >negative polarity. Oh, of course, that's basically an electron gun. The separation of the sides from one another removes the 'closed box' qualification most of us had in mind, I think. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 15:20:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA17794; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:19:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:19:42 -0700 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator Message-ID: <19970903.182034.4247.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <199709020819.BAA30405@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,8-10 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 18:19:02 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"yqBuT1.0.xL4.z9U3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/426 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >> > by Puharich on the construction of this device if you want it, >Geoff. >> > >> > Fred I seen a diagram of his device several years ago but it didn't include the frequency that he used. Does anyone know? Steve Heckman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 15:30:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA20224; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:30:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:30:12 -0700 Message-ID: <340E00F3.194B@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 17:29:40 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: John Berry "sparks" an idea... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4LXfY2.0.sx4.oJU3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/427 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greetings: I have a question: Is there any way to determine the distance electricity will spark across a gap if I know the voltage, amperage, etc.? I am building a spark chamber (can't think of anything better to call it) to test some antigravity ideas I have. I am presently using 12.5-25VDC 10A, but am preparing to build a larger power supply (one 48VDC 5A, the other 15000VDC 30mA). Has there been any serious research into the spark effect on gravity? I am going to use bismuth in one test. Has anyone here built such a thing? I will post my designs later. Kyle Mcallister Thank you John Berry, for "sparking" this idea! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 16:51:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA06446; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:51:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:51:12 -0700 From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 23:50:52 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <340cfbfb.11458563@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <199708290123.LAA28589@nornet.nor.com.au> <3412d4d8.34524329@mail.eisa.net.au> <3409DCEC.4248@tiac.net> <340AD811.5D8884C8@ihug.co.nz> <3410c206.33222707@mail.eisa.net.au> <340CB965.5116@tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <340CB965.5116@tiac.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JCkVL3.0.Ua1.kVV3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/428 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:12:05 -0700, Bob Shannon wrote: [snip] >> (Note that this means that voltage is also a scalar, as are also >> charge, capacitance, inductance, resistance, and just about everything >> else with which we measure electrical circuits :). > >Mechanical, static pressure, yes. > >Voltage, definately not. > >Voltage is defined as the "Potential difference" between two spatial >points. > >This defines a vector, not a scalar. An electrometer is a scalar >voltmeter, but a voltmeter with two leads cannot be described as a >scalar device. [snip] Actually I gave this some thought before I wrote it. I'm afraid in this case you are wrong Bob. Electrical voltage is a scalar. The electrical field that is the gradient of the voltage, and is measured in volts/meter is the vector. Voltage itself is a very good electrical analogy of static pressure. (It's good thing I don't own a hat ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 17:01:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA09709 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:01:16 -0700 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:01:16 -0700 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 17:01:06 1997 Received: from forest.globalip.ch (forest.globalip.ch [194.235.29.119]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA09660 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:01:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost) by forest.globalip.ch (8.7.4/8.7.3) with internal id WAO19524; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 02:02:24 +0100 (WET DST) Old-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 02:02:24 +0100 (WET DST) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 5 days Message-Id: <199709040102.WAO19524@forest.globalip.ch> To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="WAO19524.873334944/forest.globalip.ch" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to mstephane@vtx.ch bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: RO X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --WAO19524.873334944/forest.globalip.ch The original message was received at Sat, 30 Aug 1997 01:59:07 +0100 (WET DST) from smartlst@mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49] ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications ----- (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... Deferred: Connection reset by peer with mail.vtx.ch. Message could not be delivered for 5 days Message will be deleted from queue --WAO19524.873334944/forest.globalip.ch Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; forest.globalip.ch Arrival-Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 01:59:07 +0100 (WET DST) Final-Recipient: RFC822; mstephane@vtx.ch Action: failed Status: 4.4.7 Remote-MTA: DNS; mail.vtx.ch Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 02:02:24 +0100 (WET DST) --WAO19524.873334944/forest.globalip.ch Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Return-Path: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (smartlst@mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by forest.globalip.ch (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA08635 for ; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 01:59:07 +0100 (WET DST) From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA09464; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 16:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 16:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708292356.QAA09464@mx2.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #18 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/18 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --WAO19524.873334944/forest.globalip.ch-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 19:18:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA07574; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:18:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:18:09 -0700 Message-Id: <199709040217.TAA30494@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" , Subject: Re: John Berry "sparks" an idea... Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:12:25 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qLV5N3.0.Fs1.WfX3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/431 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Kyle and all! ---------- > From: Kyle R. Mcallister > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: John Berry "sparks" an idea... > Date: Wednesday, September 03, 1997 5:29 PM > > Greetings: > > I have a question: > > Is there any way to determine the distance electricity will spark across > a gap if I know the voltage, amperage, etc.? I'm no expert, but it seems like you would have to know a LOT of things, the shape and surface texture of the electrodes, the humidity of the air, and on and on. Maybe one of the real scientists on the list can give an approximation formula. > > I am building a spark chamber (can't think of anything better to call > it) to test some antigravity ideas I have. I am presently using > 12.5-25VDC 10A, but am preparing to build a larger power supply (one > 48VDC 5A, the other 15000VDC 30mA). Has there been any serious research > into the spark effect on gravity? Yes, a guy named Burrows built a device that consisted of four spark gaps on top of a box, it got 20% lighter when they were discharged. There is a description of it on Keelynet I think. sparks and arcs seem to be associated with a wide range of anomalous phenomena, including transmutation, excess energy, and antigravity. Check out the Frolov material on Bill Beatty's site for an interesting and simple experiment with arcs. >I am going to use bismuth in one test. I would like to see where you're going to put it... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 19:20:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA23185; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709040217.TAA06952@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:04:18 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1fj-Z1.0.Yf5.fgX3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/429 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Robin! > >Voltage, definately not. > > > >Voltage is defined as the "Potential difference" between two spatial > >points. > > > >This defines a vector, not a scalar. An electrometer is a scalar > >voltmeter, but a voltmeter with two leads cannot be described as a > >scalar device. > [snip] > Actually I gave this some thought before I wrote it. I'm afraid in > this case you are wrong Bob. Electrical voltage is a scalar. The > electrical field that is the gradient of the voltage, and is measured > in volts/meter is the vector. Voltage itself is a very good electrical > analogy of static pressure. > (It's good thing I don't own a hat ;) > Thanks Robin, I thought I was getting the hang of the vector/scalar thing at least in terms of standard physics, then when Bob said that voltage was a vector I was totally thrown, but not sure enough to say anything... Qustions for whoever wants to take them: In conventional physics, when a vector and its reciprocal (vector with same magnitude and opposite direction) are added the result is zero, not a scalar. Is that right? The Whittaker/Bearden theory amounts to saying that there is something IN that zero. Right? When two scalars add, the result is also a scalar. Correct? How can two scalars be added to get a vector? Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 19:22:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA23151; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709040217.TAA15868@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:18:58 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_P5UT3.0.bf5.egX3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/430 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Steve, The waveform used was a 600 Hz +/- 5 Hz Carrier wave amplitude modulated by a 20-200 Hz signal. ---------- > From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator > Date: Wednesday, September 03, 1997 3:19 PM > > > > >> > by Puharich on the construction of this device if you want it, > >Geoff. > >> > > >> > Fred > > I seen a diagram of his device several years ago but it didn't include > the frequency that he used. Does anyone know? > > Steve Heckman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 19:52:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA29999; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970903204430.0074aefc@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 20:44:30 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: John Berry "sparks" an idea... In-Reply-To: <340E00F3.194B@sunherald.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Kkyb71.0.cK7.58Y3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/432 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Kyle, All.... At 17:29 9/3/97 -0700, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: >Is there any way to determine the distance electricity will spark across >a gap if I know the voltage, amperage, etc.? There are several factors to consider. The voltage, geometry of the gap, and characteristics of the dielectric, are most important. The current is more of a concern if you expect anything left after the gap conducts. :) I highly recommend you find the book "High Power Switching" by Ihor Vitkovitsky, ISBN 0-442-29067-5. A rough approximation, for a uniform field, can be had by calculating... E=24.6+6.7*sqrt(P/d) Where E is KV/cm, P is pressure in atmospheres, and d is the electrode separation. So, for a one centimeter gap, at one atmosphere pressure, the breakdown field is 30KV/cm. But this is an empirically derived formula, that falls apart for small gaps. It's all in the book...with an exceptional list of references to boot. I hope this helps. Best Regards, JD ------------------------------------------------------------ The beasts of the wild Will be led by a child And I will be changed from the thing that I am. -Nelson Algren E-mail to: mules@palacenet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 20:09:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA23316; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 20:08:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 20:08:52 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 20:15:47 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Anybody know the facts about: GREEN GAS GENERATOR PTE LTD ? Resent-Message-ID: <"vHL6r2.0.Di5.3PY3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/433 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: http://sunflower.singnet.com.sg/~greengas/welcome.htm Green Gas Generator Water + Electricity = Green Gas = Intense Heat + Water Welcome to [Image] Source : Straits Times dated 10/12/96 [Image] For enquires, please contact GREEN GAS GENERATOR PTE LTD 21 Pandan Road Singapore 609273 Tel : (65) 2681995, Fax : (65) 2646096 ENVIRONMENTAL ENERGY OF THE 21ST CENTURY You are the number [Image] visitors to our site since the 28th October 1996 [Image] [Brochure] [Next Page] [E-Mail Us] ---------- Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 20:54:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA04131; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 20:52:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 20:52:34 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCB8AB.76D32A00.reed@zenergy.com> From: Reed Huish Reply-To: "reed@zenergy.com" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Vacuum Tube Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 20:16:04 -0700 Organization: Zenergy Corporation X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2t4e13.0.N01.12Z3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/434 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I am looking for a vacuum tube for use as a high-voltage switch, that will handle high voltage (5+ kvolts), high speed switching (5+ khz) and 15+ amps. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. The tube will be used in a solid-state f/e project. Thanks, - Reed -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Reed Huish Zenergy Corporation 390 South Robins Way, Chandler, AZ 85225-6440 602.814.7865, fax 602.821.0967, inet http://zenergy.com, email reed@zenergy.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 21:11:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA10241; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:11:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:11:31 -0700 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:11:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709040411.VAA19643@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 Resent-Message-ID: <"pChP1.0.vV2.oJZ3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/435 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 02:59 PM 9/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >Michael Randall wrote: >> >> Hi Greg, >> <....> >> >THE SMOT KITS WILL LEAVE HERE AS NO ADJUSTMENT "WORKING" ROLLAROUND >> >OVERUNITY UNITS. >> >Everyone who purchased a SMOT kit will have what they REALLY wanted. A >> >desktop OU unit. >> >> Yes, great news! >> >> <...> >> >Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy ............... YOU MUST BE KIDDING. >> > >> >> Ha Ha Ha! Still laughing on this one!!! :-) >> >> Best Regards, >> Michael Randall > Hi Michael, > I am also skeptical and would like to invite everyone who has >purchased these kits to post their results here to this listserver. >Frank Will do! Looking forward to receiving the kit :-) Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 22:21:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA00378; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 22:20:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 22:20:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199709040519.PAA02523@random.tpgi.com.au> X-Mailer: EnRoute for Newton, Version 1.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Generated by EnRoute for Newton) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:19 +1000 Subject: Re: New guy Adams From: Allan Alderson To: "{Group} Free NRG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"cHMJ32.0.b5.PKa3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/436 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Re: New Guy Did I have any success with the Adams design? I'm embarrased to admit that I changed the original design to be `better' = and . . . it wasn't. Now I have too much friction - (bearing). So now it's `on hold' while I experiment with toroidal propulsion. Bye. Allan. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 23:30:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA17116 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 23:30:47 -0700 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 23:30:47 -0700 X-Envelope-From: dansway@pacbell.net Wed Sep 3 23:30:46 1997 Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA17105 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 23:30:45 -0700 From: dansway@pacbell.net Received: from 207.104.138.211 (ppp-207-104-138-211.sntc01.pacbell.net [207.104.138.211]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.7/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id XAA03390 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 23:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <340DE60D.F3A@pacbell.net> Old-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 23:34:53 +0100 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-PBME (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Rectifier References: <199708310931.TAA17548@main.murray.net.au> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------40CE5F9A63E2" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------40CE5F9A63E2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings All, Has anyone duplicated this design? You can find this one in "Tapping the Zero-Point Energy", by Moray B. King on page 168 bottom left hand side. Question? What, if any, is the significance of North on North together with South on South "Null Zones" Are they "Both" needed to have a working model. Did Sparky's "VTA" use something similar or just on pole polarity? Dan LaRochelle P.S. 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From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 In-Reply-To: <340DDDB2.3FE2@motown.lmco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uP5np.0.Zk4.PWb3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/437 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, francis x roarty wrote: >> >>Michael Randall wrote: >>> Hi Greg, >>> <....> >>> >THE SMOT KITS WILL LEAVE HERE AS NO ADJUSTMENT "WORKING" ROLLAROUND >>> >OVERUNITY UNITS. >>> >Everyone who purchased a SMOT kit will have what they REALLY wanted. A >>> >desktop OU unit. >>> Yes, great news! >>> <...> >>> >Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy ............... YOU MUST BE KIDDING. >>> Ha Ha Ha! Still laughing on this one!!! :-) >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Michael Randall >> Hi Michael, >> I am also skeptical and would like to invite everyone who has >>purchased these kits to post their results here to this listserver. >>Frank >> >> Hi guys, 'Have you spent $10+ on building yours yet?' "When" so, please let us know what you found too! - thanks Spent $200+ (?) Your gonna LOVE IT when you "SEE!" This isn't cutting-edge - this is 'busted edge and beyound.' (patience IS TIMELY:) -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 23:49:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA21350; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 23:49:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 23:49:36 -0700 Message-ID: <340E55CA.D71226D3@ihug.co.nz> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 18:31:38 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: John Berry "sparks" an idea... References: <340E00F3.194B@sunherald.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"q_wJv1.0.QD5._db3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/438 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: While that was not what I was talking about, there was a guy by the name of edward farrow who had a box of spark gaps that when they fired the box lost 1/6 of its weight, There is also a guy by the name of Charles R. Morton who did lots of great things, I will email you scans when I get a new scanner, Also there is one last note of a guy who made a ray that would cause things to lose weight and I believe that he used a spark gap but you will need to give me some time on that one. Try this one, http://www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/diagrams/index.html click on farrow1 and farrow2 Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > Greetings: > > I have a question: > > Is there any way to determine the distance electricity will spark across > a gap if I know the voltage, amperage, etc.? > > I am building a spark chamber (can't think of anything better to call > it) to test some antigravity ideas I have. I am presently using > 12.5-25VDC 10A, but am preparing to build a larger power supply (one > 48VDC 5A, the other 15000VDC 30mA). Has there been any serious research > into the spark effect on gravity? I am going to use bismuth in one test. > Has anyone here built such a thing? I will post my designs later. > > Kyle Mcallister > > Thank you John Berry, for "sparking" this idea! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 3 23:58:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA22823; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 23:57:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 23:57:58 -0700 Message-ID: <340E579F.A81F2F0@ihug.co.nz> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 18:39:28 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: John Berry "sparks" an idea... References: <340E00F3.194B@sunherald.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Lgh6f3.0.Wa5.qlb3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/439 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > I am going to use bismuth in one test. > Kyle Mcallister there were numerous reports of people putting bismuth between two attracting or repelling magnets (10,000 gauss NIB's) and the bismuth lost all weight. try this on a scale and in attraction mode, I may scan a copy of that report soon too. and of course there is also a claim that I will try when I get my hands on some bismuth, try charging it with a high voltage + charge and it loses weight. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 00:10:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA24454; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 00:06:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 00:06:31 -0700 Message-ID: <340E59B1.A623259B@ihug.co.nz> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 18:48:18 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: E field(non-scalar "REAL")inside charged box? (PLEASE HELP!!!!) References: <970903172352_707290258@emout14.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------848701C36DA613B48DAFD24A" Resent-Message-ID: <"0X0qM1.0._z5.stb3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/440 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------848701C36DA613B48DAFD24A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does this picture Help? It has two different embodiments, if all were of the same voltage there would be no E field as measured by a probe placed inside the box. The walls are metal and insulated into 3 parts of different voltages but all of a negative charge (more electrons than protons). MFergerson@aol.com wrote: > J. Berry clarified: > > >A box made of metal, but the walls insulated from one another so they can > have > >different potentials on them of the same polarity,eg...... 10kv on one wall > 20kv > >on the opposite wall and 15 kv on all of the others (it's a cube) all of > >negative polarity. > > Oh, of course, that's basically an electron gun. The separation of the sides > from one another removes the 'closed box' qualification most of us had in > mind, I think. --------------848701C36DA613B48DAFD24A Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="BOXES.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="BOXES.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAoHBwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8l JCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8SDc9Pjv/2wBDAQoLCw4NDhwQEBw7KCIo Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozv/wAAR CAE0AjgDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk 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8IeHv+EV8MWeifavtX2bf++8vZu3Ozfdycfex17UAbVFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUU UAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAB RRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUU UAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAB RRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUU UAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAB RRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUU UAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAf/2Q== --------------848701C36DA613B48DAFD24A-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 01:32:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id BAA26233; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709040830.BAA32023@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: John Berry "sparks" an idea... Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:36:18 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CoPx2.0.kP6.r7d3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/442 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Kyle, John, and all, Just picked up a copy of Nexus magazine today that has the details on experiments with Bismuth and HV. Haven't read it yet. Will report on this later. Fred > > there were numerous reports of people putting bismuth between two attracting > or repelling magnets (10,000 gauss NIB's) and the bismuth lost all weight. I don't think this is purely a diamagnetic effect. I believe gravity may be a faster than light electromagnetic waveform and bismuth having a permeability lower than free space resonates with tihs wave. If so other diamagnetic substances should be investigated, especially conductors. I was told quite a while ago that some scientists had made a motor with bismuth windings and it lost weight. > > try this on a scale and in attraction mode, I may scan a copy of that report > soon too. > > and of course there is also a claim that I will try when I get my hands on > some bismuth, try charging it with a high voltage + charge and it loses > weight. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 01:32:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id BAA26215; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709040830.BAA27505@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: John Berry "sparks" an idea... Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:30:56 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hi4Lx3.0.TP6.n7d3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/441 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi all, > > While that was not what I was talking about, there was a guy by the name of > edward farrow who had a box of spark gaps that when they fired the box lost > 1/6 of its weight, Yes, I said burrows, I meant farrow.. There is also a guy by the name of Charles R. Morton who > did lots of great things, I will email you scans when I get a new scanner, I would like to see those too when you get a chance, never heard of him... > Also there is one last note of a guy who made a ray that would cause things > to lose weight and I believe that he used a spark gap but you will need to > give me some time on that one. You might be referring to Niels T. Sorenson. "Dual lobe radiating elements were arranged in circular symmetry so that each beam was oriented toward the apex of a 90 degree cone. A null region then occurs at the apex of the cone, which represents a region of apparent gravitational attraction. Experiments were performed with this configuration at a power level of 5 kW and a frequency of 9.2 GHz. A 100 gram weight suspended along the axis of the system was found to lose weight when located just below the apex and to gain weight when just above it. The weight change in passing through the apex point was 70 milligrams, based upon statistical averaging of hundreds of measurements by a well-shielded strain gauge from which the weight was suspended. These experimental results may be interpreted as representing an apparent modification in the local gravitational field." I am scanning and sending copies of this paper called "Future Physics And Antigravity" presented at a MUFON symposium to Colin Quinney next weekend. Maybe some nice website would like to pick it up too so everyone can read it--it's great! Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 02:37:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA13933; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 02:37:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 02:37:23 -0700 Message-ID: <340E7D1B.2918CD3D@ihug.co.nz> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 21:19:23 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: John Berry "sparks" an idea... References: <199709040830.BAA32023@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QYAj4.0.cP3.I5e3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/443 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Great I would love a scan of it!! Fred Epps wrote: > Hi Kyle, John, and all, > > Just picked up a copy of Nexus magazine today that has the details on > experiments with Bismuth and HV. Haven't read it yet. Will report on this > later. > > Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 04:24:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA30550; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 04:23:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 04:23:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199709041122.VAA01981@random.tpgi.com.au> X-Mailer: EnRoute for Newton, Version 1.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Generated by EnRoute for Newton) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:23 +1000 Subject: Re: New guy Adams From: Allan Alderson To: "{Group} Free NRG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"Indl52.0.9T7.sef3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/444 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Re: New guy Adams Oh no. I'm having trouble with the digest mode. you'll have to send that = again. sorry. Bye. Allan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 05:01:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id EAA22154; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 04:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 04:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 07:54:32 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Reed Huish cc: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Re: Vacuum Tube solid state In-Reply-To: <01BCB8AB.76D32A00.reed@zenergy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"NmiNj3.0.3Q5.hAg3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/445 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: You are better off solid state.... series 5 units 1,200 V ... mfg's include Harris, Supertex, APT, Int'l Rect. ..... and so on. MOS and IGBT both will work. J On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Reed Huish wrote: > I am looking for a vacuum tube for use as a high-voltage > switch, that will handle high voltage (5+ kvolts), > high speed switching (5+ khz) and 15+ amps. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. The tube > will be used in a solid-state f/e project. > > Thanks, > > - Reed > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------- > Reed Huish > Zenergy Corporation > 390 South Robins Way, Chandler, AZ 85225-6440 > 602.814.7865, fax 602.821.0967, inet http://zenergy.com, email > reed@zenergy.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 05:52:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA24918; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 05:48:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 05:48:45 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:45:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970904084456_1093774596@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: TEP project update.... Resent-Message-ID: <"4eZ-T3.0.F56.gug3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/446 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, After a short period of stand back and some "brainstorming" with the TEP Teamwork, I have decided today to go backward (or forward...this depends of the point of view ) about the TEP project and focus my research on the real parametric effect in a bifilar coil as I had begun with the TEP V2 and V3. I think that my original design of the Tep (Series 2 and 3) is really close to the original Time Energy Pump concept than the TEP V4.2x. To summarize the tests with the TEP 4.2x device : The TEP V4.2x shows interesting characteristcs like : - A High Voltage Output (about 215 Volts) with a turns ratio between primary and secondary coils about 1 ( 0.98 ) compared to a normal transformer which would have a turns ratio about 18:1 ( 215:12) - A very low reciprocal effect. - The Voltage amplification effect is produced only with the bifilar coil configuration. - The generated HV voltage seems only limited by the reverse voltage of the diodes and the wires insulation of the coils. The TEP V4.21 seems a very powerfull HV generator which uses the flyback effect in a bifilar coil but there is a conventional explanation for the functionning. I think today that this not the good way for achieving successfully an Overunity device. Don't forget that the main purpose of the TEP device is to act as a Time Energy Pump Vs ZPE ( Zero Point Energy ). You will find bellow some guide lines of the TEP concept. The main principle of the TEP device may be decomposed as this : - Using the parametric effect in a bifilar coil as an energy pump. When the circuit is closed on the Bifilar coil, the inductance drops rapidly near zero and the energy strored in the coil increases dramaticaly. During this energy growth in the TEP, I think that a kind of "siphon effect" must act in the TEP coils Vs ZPE (Zero Point Energy). This "siphon effect" will tap additional ZPE energy like a vaccum pump using water. The additional energy tapped in the ZPE ( with the parametric effect in the TEP ) seems the only way to "regauge" the system and achieve an Overunity device. Unlike a mechanical device ( the SMOT/RMOD device or an Overunity Magnetic motor ) which uses gravity or a little magnetic pulse to regauge itself, the TEP uses the parametric effect as a "siphon" Vs ZPE to regauge itself. The disruption effect due to the parametric effect in the bifilar modifies the time constant of the circuit (L/R), thus the energy flows. The disymetry between the S-Flow (Poynting flow) running outside and the Time Flow compression inside the circuit (time constant compression) is the main cause of the Pumping effect in the ZPE. Today, I think that the TEP is "a way" to achieve a good Overunity device. Today the TEP uses bifilar coils technologies in parametric conditions, but tomorrow, other kinds of process could be used to pump the Zero Point Energy. The only purpose of the TEP device is the creation of a disymetrical flow of energy between the outside flow energy (Poynting S-Flow) and the inside ( current flow in the wires ) during the energy flow from Source to Load and I think, today, that it is a good way to Free Energy. The main advantage of the TEP is that it is a solid state device with no moving parts. There is a great number of regauging steps due to the working frequency, thus the ZPE energy tapped may be enormous. Thanks to everyone for your VERY HELPFULL contribution about the TEP Project. I hope that I shall be able to update my web site about a new release of the TEP soon, which will be the TEP V5.0. Sincerely, ( This mail has been sent at 11h32 GMT on 04 September 97 ) Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 05:57:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA08158; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 05:53:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 05:53:49 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 14:47:57 +0200 From: Johann de Beer (IT) To: Freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: High voltage generation. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"F4FxE2.0.N_1.Szg3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/447 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ** Confidential ** Can someone suggest ? By what means can I generate variable DC voltages In excess of 50 KV to 200 KV . I might be in need of even higher voltages later on. Is it possible to extract the DC component from Tesla coils with semiconductors or rather opt for Van der Graaf generator s of sorts. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 06:06:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id GAA26327; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 06:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 06:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970904065638.006f82ec@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 06:56:38 -0500 To: From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: Vacuum Tube In-Reply-To: <01BCB8AB.76D32A00.reed@zenergy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8pxZX1.0.DR6.k5h3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/448 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 20:16 9/3/97 -0700, Reed Huish wrote: >I am looking for a vacuum tube for use as a high-voltage >switch, that will handle high voltage (5+ kvolts), >high speed switching (5+ khz) and 15+ amps. A 3CX1200A7 tube would might work. It's very expensive though. John's suggestion of a solid state device is a good one. I'd probably use a couple IGBTs. Collmer Semiconductor distributes Fuji parts, a couple of their IGBTs in series will definitely do the job. Equipment that switches hundreds of amps, at near a megavolt, has been constructed using such devices. Best Regards, JD ------------------------------------------------------------ The beasts of the wild Will be led by a child And I will be changed from the thing that I am. -Nelson Algren E-mail to: mules@palacenet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 07:22:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id HAA06631; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 07:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 07:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <9709040918.ZM21805@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:18:30 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Fred Epps" "Re: John Berry "sparks" an idea..." (Sep 3, 9:27pm) References: <199709040217.TAA30494@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: John Berry "sparks" an idea... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"2sUb62.0.Wd1.1Fi3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/449 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 3, 9:27pm, Fred Epps wrote: > > Is there any way to determine the distance electricity will spark across > > a gap if I know the voltage, amperage, etc.? > > I'm no expert, but it seems like you would have to know a LOT of things, > the shape and surface texture of the electrodes, the humidity of the air, > and on and on. Maybe one of the real scientists on the list can give an > approximation formula. > > > > I am building a spark chamber (can't think of anything better to call > > it) to test some antigravity ideas I have. I am presently using > > 12.5-25VDC 10A, but am preparing to build a larger power supply (one > > 48VDC 5A, the other 15000VDC 30mA). Has there been any serious research > > into the spark effect on gravity? > > Yes, a guy named Burrows built a device that consisted of four spark gaps > on top of a box, it got 20% lighter when they were discharged. There is a > description of it on Keelynet I think. > > sparks and arcs seem to be associated with a wide range of anomalous > phenomena, including transmutation, excess energy, and antigravity. Check > out the Frolov material on Bill Beatty's site for an interesting and simple > experiment with arcs. A good place to start is contacting a an EDM (electrode discharge machining) equipment manufacturer or visiting a local injection mold tooling shop. Extensive voltage vs. sparkgap databases exist for these types of machines and could prove helpful laying out the parameters of your experiment. You may be able to utilize existing high voltage equipment with little modification (proving you have the $ to buy one or you find an open minded mold shop owner). Typical operation is arcing with a tightly orbiting machined graphite shape, through a fluid medium, to a grounded conductive material. The graphite shape is "burnt" into the receiving material. Process time and resulting finish are sparkgap and voltage dependent, hence the reason for the extensive database on settings. You probably wouldn't use it this way, but the basic principle is there. Been around this type of equipment a lot and I can't say I've ever seen any anomalous phenomena, (although it never occurred to me to analyze the used working fluid or weigh a part in process). Given the popularity and wide spread use of these machines, I would expect any such behavior to be documented or reported by now. A word of caution, EDM fluid is very flamable (go figure) and considered hazardous waste by the EPA. Use standard hazmat protocol if you decide to play with it. Nasty stuff. Hope this helps. -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 08:12:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id IAA14841; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:11:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:11:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970904101032.006a6c14@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 10:10:32 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: High voltage generation. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-vXSL.0.od3.U-i3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/450 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Johann, All... At 14:47 9/4/97 +0200, Johann wrote: >By what means can I generate variable DC voltages In excess of 50 KV to 200 KV . I might be in need of even higher voltages later on. Is it possible to extract the DC component from Tesla coils with semiconductors or rather opt for Van der Graaf generato r >s of sorts. That depends on how much power you require, and how large the source can be. A small Van der Graff is easy to build, and control...but the current it can supply is very small. If you need more power, (who doesn't) and don't have an empty barn handy, a flyback type switching supply,that incorporates a voltage multiplier output section will work. But if you require a blood and thunder machine, a series resonant switching supply would be my choice for power (a form of Tesla coil really.) If you require very high voltage pulses you might want to consider building a MARX generator. Ahh, what memories! The crackle of a corona discharge in my ears, and feeling the ion wind on my face. Then, the bang of a trigatron firing, followed by such coruscation that even Zeus would be envious ...God, I love this stuff! Best Regards, JD ---------------------------------------------------- "Somewhere between anticipation and nostalgia we should have been happy." -Too Much Coffee Man #1 E-mail to mules@palacenet.net ---------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 08:23:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id IAA16974; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709041526.LAA16788@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: new guy Adams Resent-Message-ID: <"B8dKa2.0.594.H9j3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/451 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Re: New guy Adams Oh no. I'm having trouble with the digest mode. you'll have to send that again. sorry. Bye. Allan I was just telling the gang of my efforts to reproduce an Adams motor. I have built 2 that spin freely with only 6 volts but I do not believe I am experiencing the polatity reversal Adams bases his ideas upon.I have tried to create an experiment to show the effect using a simple coil and a compas.I felt switching off the power to the coil near a compas would cause the needle to jump if the poarity actually reversed. No such luck.Any ideas? If you are trying to build one yourself I have found transformers if you take them apart and trim and rearange the laminations make good coils. The primary is great for a generator coil and the secondary is great for an electromagnet coil.Dont unwind the coils just use whatever input or output wire for the purpose you need.I also mount my spinning magnets on small d.c. motors because of the bearings in these. It may not last forever but it is a quick easy way to get it spinning with low drag. Also adding power to the motor lets you check out a few other things when it is spining you may not be able to detect when trying to get it operating in the"Adams cycle" Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 09:58:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA24142; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:58:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:58:14 -0700 Message-ID: <340F124D.43FF@motown.lmco.com> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 12:55:57 -0700 From: francis x roarty Reply-To: froarty@motown.lmco.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LjQzq.0.0v5.aYk3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/452 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Steve Ekwall wrote: > > On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, francis x roarty wrote: > >> > >>Michael Randall wrote: > >>> Hi Greg, > >>> <....> > >>> >THE SMOT KITS WILL LEAVE HERE AS NO ADJUSTMENT "WORKING" ROLLAROUND > >>> >OVERUNITY UNITS. > >>> >Everyone who purchased a SMOT kit will have what they REALLY wanted. A > >>> >desktop OU unit. > >>> Yes, great news! > >>> <...> > >>> >Simple Magnetic Overunity Toy ............... YOU MUST BE KIDDING. > >>> Ha Ha Ha! Still laughing on this one!!! :-) > >>> > >>> Best Regards, > >>> Michael Randall > >> Hi Michael, > >> I am also skeptical and would like to invite everyone who has > >>purchased these kits to post their results here to this listserver. > >>Frank > >> > >> > Hi guys, 'Have you spent $10+ on building yours yet?' > "When" so, please let us know what you found too! - thanks > > Spent $200+ (?) Your gonna LOVE IT when you "SEE!" This isn't cutting-edge > - > this is 'busted edge and beyound.' (patience IS TIMELY:) > > -=se=- OK, from lack of testimonials must conclude SMOT is dubious at best. Frank From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 10:23:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA03856; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:23:04 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970904132107_-1065682465@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: field inside a charged box Resent-Message-ID: <"5aKzm3.0.9y.rvk3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/453 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John, My books say that a charge can exist between any potentials, positive to negetive, positive to positive, negative to negative, ect., as long as there is a potiental difference. Does this help? I could scan the text and send it to you if you need it. Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 10:34:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA01245; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:30:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:30:49 -0700 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: SMOT Kits shipped ????? Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 19:29:16 +0100 Message-Id: <19970904192916.4297c9d5.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"fwSr6.0.tI.71l3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/454 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >> >> Hi Michael, >> >> I am also skeptical and would like to invite everyone who has >> >>purchased these kits to post their results here to this listserver. >> >>Frank >> >> >> >> >> Hi guys, 'Have you spent $10+ on building yours yet?' >> "When" so, please let us know what you found too! - thanks >> >> Spent $200+ (?) Your gonna LOVE IT when you "SEE!" This isn't cutting-edge >> - >> this is 'busted edge and beyound.' (patience IS TIMELY:) >> >> -=se=- >OK, > from lack of testimonials must conclude SMOT is dubious at best. >Frank > Well, have ordered it and spent 200 DM around July and it is still not here.... Anybody else already has got it from Greg ? Please let me know. Regards, STefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 10:41:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA06756; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <340EF079.6883FF1E@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 03:01:37 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg , francis x roarty Subject: Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <340F124D.43FF@motown.lmco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eYpPG2.0.Rf1.0Al3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/455 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: francis x roarty wrote: > > from lack of testimonials must conclude SMOT is dubious at best. > Frank Hi Frank, Forget what I say, have you checked out the SMOT results data base on my site. The data published there is from many duplicators world wide. Their email are listed if you wish to confirm their Rollarounds and Rollaways reports. Dubious no, observer dependent yes. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 11:04:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA08699; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:04:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:04:12 -0700 Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <9709041303.ZM23200@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:03:56 -0500 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"UGGmK2.0.q72.RWl3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/456 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 4, 12:08pm, francis x roarty wrote: > from lack of testimonials must conclude SMOT is dubious at best. Not a fair conclusion. It's obscure, but obtainable. Did did not replicate exactly, but succeeded along a similar path using comparable elements. LMOU seems self evident providing mag fields remain perpetual (beyond my resources to establish conclusively either way at this time). RMOU is being a bit more elusive, however, and not as intuitive. The rules seem to be different, or I'm missing something. So much more to do when it doesn't work than when it does! 8^) -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 11:39:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA16518; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:38:25 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970904143550_-1633216785@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Can a collapsing magnetic field cause increase in torque? Resent-Message-ID: <"BQwiA.0.y14.U0m3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/457 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To all: I have a question I have been wanting to ask for a long time. If you had a permanent magnet being attracted to the magnetic field of a large air core coil, and you had a force gauge on the permanent magnet to indicate how much force the coil was "pulling" with, (with the coil's current in a steady state) I ask this. If you were to collapse the coil's magnetic field in the fastest way possible, (like the primary coil in a automobile spark coil), would you see an increase in the "pulling" force on the pemanent magnet during this collapse? (no matter of how short a period) Thanks, Butch LaFonte HLafonte@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 11:50:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA17745; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:49:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:49:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199709041849.LAA01574@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Stuart Rae" , "Jean-Louis Naudin" , "Free Energy" Subject: THE INERTIAL TAP- again ;-) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:50:22 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BCB928.B9C72DC0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"csBsJ3.0.4L4.HBm3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/458 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BCB928.B9C72DC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Folks, Recently I presented an idea on the list I call the inertial tap, for obscure reasons. I made a mistake in the geometry of the coils and decided the idea was not workable. I realized this morning that I had confused a subsidiary issue of coil placement with the basic principle of the machine. The simple circuit in my GIF shows that it is possible to violate Lenz's law using a bifilar noninductive (NI) coil. With the switch in position 1 there is a current flowing through L1 and a magnetic field around it. When the switch is in position 2 current passes back the way it came and the magnetic field goes rapidly to zero. A voltage is induced in L3 because of the changing magnetic field, and the changing magnetic field of that voltage induces a countervoltage in L1 and L2 (back EMF, Lenz's law in operation). Unfortunately for Dr. Lenz, the back EMF voltages in the two branches of the NI coil L1, L2 cancel because they are in opposite directions! There is no total back EMF in the "primary" even though there is a voltage induced in the secondary. There IS a back EMF induced in L1 when the switch goes to position 1 because L2 is out of the circuit and there are no longer two cancelling back EMFs, only the usual non-cancelling one. This could be eliminated by adding a switch to the secondary circuit so that it was open during this half of the cycle. It should be noted as well that if L2 has a path to ground it creates a collapsing magnetic field which SUPPORTS the field of L1 but I just noticed this and haven't investigated how it can be used. It seems fairly easy by this means to eliminate the back EMF in an inductive circuit. In a practical form I envision using a very large 1:1:1 trifilar winding on a high-perm toroid core. In this case a small current could supply the static magnetic field of L1, and the large change in magnetic field while L2 was in operation would result in a large output in L3. It is possible that a permanent magnet could be substituted for L1 but the constant imposition of a reverse field on the magnet would require a very high quality magnet. Interested in comments, as always.. 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Y3ZUo98h4zneBwHKnrGEHDuehYahXnKsmTyGDQNaHSXh43UsIfGVVT9iRxLKnm5cokBGTv3F3Hsg 5HUAl90J2iVQxAQ25FVsxx6uzido5GJVAgVE3HvE4gN85KlIi5Y4AjGMyXi0IqUJh599QkVCxnCw ggsIGrK5ZE54gljdwARIAOZxlZ9VheBpggREAEoJwlrc1EggzBrsxxkCVsf9laGIokrqwFyhrGJI OpYEPEA0fIJMIR5MOt+doYdK3eIEUEUEAMUarEJVAsxnuEJVsgFTquQoruVcoUcWAEXGZRzEmYa3 iQQDdF8DfFXhhcJWXcEYoFocgqV2qZgvLuZjQmZkSuZkUmZlWuZlYmZmauZmcmZneuZngmZoiuZo kmZpmuZpomZqquZqsmZruuZrwmZsyuZs0mZt2uZt4mZu6uZu8mZv+uZvAmdwCudwEmdxGmcKhAAA Ow== ------=_NextPart_000_01BCB928.B9C72DC0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 12:13:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA22878; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:12:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:12:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199709041912.MAA09343@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Out of commision Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:18:45 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ue2eL.0.7b5.NWm3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/459 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi folks, Any mail sent to me won't be answered until Sat eve. at the earliest. Keep it coming though, I like a full mailbox when I get home! Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 12:26:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA26725; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <340F26C8.7B5C@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 14:23:20 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: John Berry "sparks" an idea... References: <199709040217.TAA30494@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hkI7o.0.TX6.Mim3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/460 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Fred Epps wrote: > > Hi Kyle and all! > > ---------- > > From: Kyle R. Mcallister > > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: John Berry "sparks" an idea... > > Date: Wednesday, September 03, 1997 5:29 PM > > > > Greetings: > > > > I have a question: > > > > Is there any way to determine the distance electricity will spark across > > a gap if I know the voltage, amperage, etc.? > > I'm no expert, but it seems like you would have to know a LOT of things, > the shape and surface texture of the electrodes, the humidity of the air, > and on and on. Maybe one of the real scientists on the list can give an > approximation formula. > > > > I am building a spark chamber (can't think of anything better to call > > it) to test some antigravity ideas I have. I am presently using > > 12.5-25VDC 10A, but am preparing to build a larger power supply (one > > 48VDC 5A, the other 15000VDC 30mA). Has there been any serious research > > into the spark effect on gravity? > > Yes, a guy named Burrows built a device that consisted of four spark gaps > on top of a box, it got 20% lighter when they were discharged. There is a > description of it on Keelynet I think. > > sparks and arcs seem to be associated with a wide range of anomalous > phenomena, including transmutation, excess energy, and antigravity. Check > out the Frolov material on Bill Beatty's site for an interesting and simple > experiment with arcs. > > >I am going to use bismuth in one test. > > I would like to see where you're going to put it... > Its going to be one of the electrodes. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 12:29:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA27239; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <340F27AF.4490@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 14:27:11 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New guy Adams References: <199709040519.PAA02523@random.tpgi.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KapIf3.0.Uf6.xlm3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/461 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Allan Alderson wrote: > > Re: New Guy > Did I have any success with the Adams design? > I'm embarrased to admit that I changed the original design to be `better' and . . . it wasn't. Now I have too much friction - (bearing). > So now it's `on hold' while I experiment with toroidal propulsion. Bye. > Allan. > You're working on toroidal propulsion? I have some documents you may be interested in. I can send them (if you want them) over email of snailmail. Toroidal Prop. is a major interrest to me. Kyle Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 12:33:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA27784; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <340F283F.3A86@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 14:29:36 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: John Berry "sparks" an idea... References: <340E00F3.194B@sunherald.infi.net> <340E55CA.D71226D3@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JyFVe.0.-n6.7om3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/462 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John Berry wrote: > > While that was not what I was talking about, True, but it gave me some ideas. > there was a guy by the name of > edward farrow who had a box of spark gaps that when they fired the box lost > 1/6 of its weight, There is also a guy by the name of Charles R. Morton who > did lots of great things, I will email you scans when I get a new scanner, > Also there is one last note of a guy who made a ray that would cause things > to lose weight and I believe that he used a spark gap but you will need to > give me some time on that one. Sounds interesting. > > Try this one, > http://www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/diagrams/index.html > click on farrow1 and farrow2 > > Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > > > Greetings: > > > > I have a question: > > > > Is there any way to determine the distance electricity will spark across > > a gap if I know the voltage, amperage, etc.? > > > > I am building a spark chamber (can't think of anything better to call > > it) to test some antigravity ideas I have. I am presently using > > 12.5-25VDC 10A, but am preparing to build a larger power supply (one > > 48VDC 5A, the other 15000VDC 30mA). Has there been any serious research > > into the spark effect on gravity? I am going to use bismuth in one test. > > Has anyone here built such a thing? I will post my designs later. > > > > Kyle Mcallister > > > > Thank you John Berry, for "sparking" this idea! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 14:06:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA13651; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:05:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:05:44 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCB93B.C5D4D500.reed@zenergy.com> From: Reed Huish Reply-To: "reed@zenergy.com" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Vacuum Tube Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:32:21 -0700 Organization: Zenergy Corporation X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UI46x3.0.CL3.dAo3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/463 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jack, thanks for the suggestion. Now the trick is to find one of these tubes. I'll try a few sources I know. - Reed On Thursday, 04 September, 1997 04:57, Jack DeMule [SMTP:mules@palacenet.net] wrote: > At 20:16 9/3/97 -0700, Reed Huish wrote: > >I am looking for a vacuum tube for use as a high-voltage > >switch, that will handle high voltage (5+ kvolts), > >high speed switching (5+ khz) and 15+ amps. > > > A 3CX1200A7 tube would might work. It's very expensive > though. John's suggestion of a solid state device is > a good one. I'd probably use a couple IGBTs. Collmer > Semiconductor distributes Fuji parts, a couple of their > IGBTs in series will definitely do the job. Equipment that > switches hundreds of amps, at near a megavolt, has been > constructed using such devices. > > > Best Regards, > JD > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The beasts of the wild > Will be led by a child > And I will be changed from the thing that I am. > -Nelson Algren > > E-mail to: mules@palacenet.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 14:50:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA21626; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:49:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:49:58 -0700 From: PROTIEUS@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:49:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970904174720_1087557183@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: anti-gravity ..thru ionization Resent-Message-ID: <"bGvfg2.0.jH5.5qo3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/464 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: hello can any one help me with this question i am wondering if i might be able to make a "hover board like in the movie ""back to the future pt.2"" i heard that using ionization might be the answer can any one help me with this... thank you Scotty From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 15:54:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA23289; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <340F6473.5E93@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 18:46:27 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars References: <199708290123.LAA28589@nornet.nor.com.au> <3412d4d8.34524329@mail.eisa.net.au> <3409DCEC.4248@tiac.net> <340AD811.5D8884C8@ihug.co.nz> <3410c206.33222707@mail.eisa.net.au> <340CB965.5116@tiac.net> <340cfbfb.11458563@mail.eisa.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"56dO43.0.lh5.Slp3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/465 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:12:05 -0700, Bob Shannon wrote: > >Mechanical, static pressure, yes. > > > >Voltage, definately not. > > > >Voltage is defined as the "Potential difference" between two spatial > >points. > > > >This defines a vector, not a scalar. An electrometer is a scalar > >voltmeter, but a voltmeter with two leads cannot be described as a > >scalar device. > [snip] > Actually I gave this some thought before I wrote it. I'm afraid in > this case you are wrong Bob. Electrical voltage is a scalar. The > electrical field that is the gradient of the voltage, and is measured > in volts/meter is the vector. Voltage itself is a very good electrical > analogy of static pressure. > (It's good thing I don't own a hat ;) Can you expand on this Robin? Voltage is a potential difference, with magnitude and direction. Clearly this cannot be described as a scalar value. Electrostatic potnetial is an analog of static pressure, voltage is a potential difference between two points, clearly a vector by the standard definition of the term. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 16:35:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA06918; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:35:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:35:01 -0700 Message-ID: <340F6E87.405@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 19:29:27 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 References: <340F124D.43FF@motown.lmco.com> <340EF079.6883FF1E@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LIupf3.0.-h1.aMq3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/466 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > Dubious no, observer dependent yes. Observer dependent phenomena ARE dubious from the conventional science perspective. Have you any theory on what role the observer might be playing in these reports? (Real question, not an intentional dig.) I work in a department that tests protoype laptop computers, and sometimes we have problems only some people can duplicate, usually due to nuances of operating habbits, and on one occation, typing rate. Just because only one test engineer duplicated a problem, it is still a valid observation. I just have to find out why the problem was only duplicated by a given tester. Forgive the phrase, but maybe sucessful and unsucessful SMOT'ers should swap balls? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 16:52:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA00370; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:50:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <340F6E87.405@tiac.net> References: <340F124D.43FF@motown.lmco.com> <340EF079.6883FF1E@microtronics.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 19:49:08 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 Resent-Message-ID: <"goa9Q.0.h5.Hbq3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/467 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > >Have you any theory on what role the observer might be playing in these >reports? (Real question, not an intentional dig.) > Are you familiar with the studies conducted by the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research lab (aka PEAR). They definitely show that operator intention can influence various electrical and mechanical systems (eg, true random number generators, pendulums, etc). see http://www.princeton.edu/~rdnelson/pear.html r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 17:35:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA05455; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <340F7ACC.6A1B@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 20:21:48 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars References: <199709040217.TAA06952@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H7yX13.0.4L1.r8r3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/468 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Fred Epps wrote: > > Hi Robin! > > > >Voltage, definately not. > > > > > >Voltage is defined as the "Potential difference" between two spatial > > >points. > > > > > >This defines a vector, not a scalar. An electrometer is a scalar > > >voltmeter, but a voltmeter with two leads cannot be described as a > > >scalar device. > > [snip] > > Actually I gave this some thought before I wrote it. I'm afraid in > > this case you are wrong Bob. Electrical voltage is a scalar. The > > electrical field that is the gradient of the voltage, and is measured > > in volts/meter is the vector. Voltage itself is a very good electrical > > analogy of static pressure. > > (It's good thing I don't own a hat ;) > > > Thanks Robin, I thought I was getting the hang of the vector/scalar thing > at least in terms of standard physics, then when Bob said that voltage was > a vector I was totally thrown, but not sure enough to say anything... Fred, how can voltage, the "potential difference" between points, which by definition has direction we call polarity, be scalar? A thermometer measures temprature, a scalar value, with a single connection to a point, but voltage is 'across' two points, with a clear direction. This is a vector. A voltmeter has two electrodes for this reason. An electrometer on the other hand, had a single electrode. Why? > Qustions for whoever wants to take them: > > In conventional physics, when a vector and its reciprocal (vector with same > magnitude and opposite direction) are added the result is zero, not a > scalar. Is that right? Yes, as an analogy, two force vectors on a bit of string. We pull with equal force at each end, in opposing directions. The string does not move, but the force is not zero either. If we pull just hard enough, equally from each end, the string snapps. Clearly the opposed forces, which summed to net zero, were still fully present in the string. > The Whittaker/Bearden theory amounts to saying that there is something IN > that zero. Right? Right! Ask the string! Note that we pulled at the ends, but the string may have broken anywhere along its lenght. Action at a distance perhaps? Spookey or not? > When two scalars add, the result is also a scalar. Correct? Not complete. But not wrong yet. Remember that the dV/dT thing? We still have phase. Destructive and constructive interference will yeild EM or scalar products respectively. > How can two scalars be added to get a vector? By destructive interference, which yeilds the conventional EM vector according to the work of Whittaker. This gets us right back to "potential difference" being a vector. > Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 17:38:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA03772; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:36:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:36:25 -0700 Message-ID: <340F7CEC.352F@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 20:30:52 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 References: <340F124D.43FF@motown.lmco.com> <340EF079.6883FF1E@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oePOB2.0.pw.7Gr3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/469 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ralph muha wrote: > > Bob Shannon wrote: > > > >Have you any theory on what role the observer might be playing in these > >reports? (Real question, not an intentional dig.) > > > > Are you familiar with the studies conducted by the Princeton Engineering > Anomalies Research lab (aka PEAR). They definitely show that operator > intention can influence various electrical and mechanical systems (eg, > true random number generators, pendulums, etc). > > see http://www.princeton.edu/~rdnelson/pear.html Yes, fascinating stuff! I was asking the question honestly, what possible phenomena might describe the "observer dependent" aspects Greg describes? Is it the observer, or the balls, the ramp magnets, whatever? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 17:45:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA07182; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BCB99C.469778E0@que2-p15.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:36:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCB99C.46A841C0" Resent-Message-ID: <"huDet1.0.3m1.CMr3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/470 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB99C.46A841C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob Shannon wrote: >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >>=20 >> On Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:12:05 -0700, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > >> >Mechanical, static pressure, yes. >> > >> >Voltage, definately not. >> > >> >Voltage is defined as the "Potential difference" between two spatial >> >points. >> > >> >This defines a vector, not a scalar. An electrometer is a scalar >> >voltmeter, but a voltmeter with two leads cannot be described as a >> >scalar device. >> [snip] >> Actually I gave this some thought before I wrote it. I'm afraid in >> this case you are wrong Bob. Electrical voltage is a scalar. The >> electrical field that is the gradient of the voltage, and is measured >> in volts/meter is the vector. Voltage itself is a very good = electrical >> analogy of static pressure. >> (It's good thing I don't own a hat ;) > >Can you expand on this Robin? > >Voltage is a potential difference, with magnitude and direction.=20 >Clearly this cannot be described as a scalar value.=20 You are right in saying that voltage is a potential difference, with = magnitude. But I really don't see a need for direction. > >Electrostatic potnetial is an analog of static pressure, voltage is a >potential difference between two points, clearly a vector by the >standard definition of the term. Let=B4s try with an example. Suppose we have an electrostatic potential = field (scalar, you=B4d agree). Suppose this field varies in space, so it has a non-zero gradient, which = will be the electrical field (a vector, of course). (An important question would be: "What do you mean by gradient?" Well, = imagine that you're halfway to the top of a hill when you stop and look = around. About half the directions you can look to, will be uphill. The = rest of them would be downhill. Take the steepest of the uphill = directions (which you can do in EVERY point) and it's slope will be the = magnitude of your gradient. This direction will of course define the = direction of the gradient. In this way we defined another field that for = EACH point is a vector defined by the direction of the highest slope, = and by the slope value itself.) This electrical field would then, at each point, indicate the direction = of maximum potential variation, and state how much that variation would = be (in volts per meter). If one would assume a (x,y,z) cartesian coordinate system then one could = say, e.g: The electrical field at point (a,b,c) is (Ex,Ey,Ez), which would mean = that moving from: (a,b,c) to (a+dx,b,c) would increase the potential by Ex.dx (a,b,c) to (a,b+dy,c) would increase the potential by Ey.dy (a,b,c) to (a,b,c+dz) would increase the potential by Ez.dz (the d here means 'a tiny little wee bit') =20 An alternative way of viewing this components, say Ex, would be to say: = If in the xx direction, the slope of the potential field would be = constant for at least a meter, then the potential difference (voltage) = between point (a,b,c) and (a+1,b,c) would be Ex.1 Volts. But Ex is still expressed in Volts per meter. Maybe this is where your confusion comes from: There is indeed a vector = quantity that is based on potential variations. It is the electric field = and it is vector because it describes the potential variation in space. = But the potential variations themselves are, of course, scalar. Or we would have to have voltmeters with three scales, to be able to say = "the voltage in this plug is 6V North, 3V West and -7V down" :-) Hope this helps... 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Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:52:29 -0700 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:52:29 -0700 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 17:52:26 1997 Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA06632 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:52:24 -0700 Received: from localhost by relay2.UU.NET with internal (peer crosschecked as: localhost) id QQdfpr04768; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:52:40 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:52:40 -0400 (EDT) From: MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.uu.net (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable Message-Id: To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="QQdfpr04768.873420760/relay2.UU.NET" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to BAwbrey@bangate.compaq.com bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: RO X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --QQdfpr04768.873420760/relay2.UU.NET The original message was received at Sat, 23 Aug 1997 11:21:29 -0400 (EDT) from mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to wotan.compaq.com. [207.18.199.254]: >>> MAIL From: SIZE=38784 <<< 555 freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com is not in your domain 554 ... Service unavailable --QQdfpr04768.873420760/relay2.UU.NET Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; relay2.UU.NET Arrival-Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 11:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; BAwbrey@bangate.compaq.com Action: failed Status: 5.0.0 Remote-MTA: dns; wotan.compaq.com Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 555 freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com is not in your domain Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:52:40 -0400 (EDT) --QQdfpr04768.873420760/relay2.UU.NET Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Return-Path: Received: from mx2.eskimo.com by relay2.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) id QQddvx19135; Sat, 23 Aug 1997 11:21:29 -0400 (EDT) From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id IAA18582; Sat, 23 Aug 1997 08:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 08:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708231514.IAA18582@mx2.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #9 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/9 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --QQdfpr04768.873420760/relay2.UU.NET-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 19:17:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA23356; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 19:16:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 19:16:01 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:15:11 +1000 Message-Id: <199709050215.MAA07082@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: John Berry "sparks" an idea... Resent-Message-ID: <"sE1uG2.0.oi5.Vjs3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/471 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Yes, a guy named Burrows built a device that consisted of four spark gaps >on top of a box, it got 20% lighter when they were discharged. There is a >description of it on Keelynet I think. > Also a Mr. Pajak of NZ. Plexiglas cube with needle electrodes to create plasma vortex. Said it was a UFO propulsion system, the "Magnetron". Put out reams of info at one stage. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 21:18:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA05423; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:13:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"CMFYW3.0.ZK1.GUu3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/472 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, ralph muha wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > > > >Have you any theory on what role the observer might be playing in these > >reports? (Real question, not an intentional dig.) > > > > Are you familiar with the studies conducted by the Princeton Engineering > Anomalies Research lab (aka PEAR). They definitely show that operator > intention can influence various electrical and mechanical systems (eg, > true random number generators, pendulums, etc). > > see http://www.princeton.edu/~rdnelson/pear.html > That reminds me of another book I forgot to put on my recent reading list: MIND-REACH by Russell Targ and Hal Puthoff. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 21:43:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA12859; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:41:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:41:31 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 00:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709050446.AAA07558@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: anti-gravity ..thru ionization Resent-Message-ID: <"8hmT-.0.i83.wru3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/474 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 05:49 PM 9/4/97 -0400, you wrote: >hello can any one help me with this question i am wondering if i might be >able to make a "hover board like in the movie ""back to the future pt.2"" i >heard that using ionization might be the answer can any one help me with >this... > >thank you >Scotty > > Check out www.1second.com/Tecknico.htm. You wont believe what they offer. It is not quite what you are looking for but it is still neat stuff. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 21:44:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA09373; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 00:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709050446.AAA07555@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: THE INERTIAL TAP- again ;-) Resent-Message-ID: <"V4c4S.0.MI2.xsu3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/473 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:50 AM 9/4/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Folks, > > Recently I presented an idea on the list I call the inertial tap, for >obscure reasons. I made a mistake in the geometry of the coils and decided >the idea was not workable. I realized this morning that I had confused a >subsidiary issue of coil placement with the basic principle of the machine. > > The simple circuit in my GIF shows that it is possible to violate Lenz's >law using a bifilar noninductive (NI) coil. > > With the switch in position 1 there is a current flowing through L1 and >a magnetic field around it. > When the switch is in position 2 current passes back the way it came and >the magnetic field goes rapidly to zero. A voltage is induced in L3 because >of the changing magnetic field, and the changing magnetic field of that >voltage induces a countervoltage in L1 and L2 (back EMF, Lenz's law in >operation). > I am still looking for a simple experiment to show me that back emf does exist. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 22:54:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA24151 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:53:58 -0700 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:53:58 -0700 X-Envelope-From: jaycee@sprintlink.co.za Thu Sep 4 22:53:55 1997 Received: from johan.sprintlink.co.za (root@johan.sprintlink.co.za [206.48.88.36]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA24113 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:53:53 -0700 Received: from jaycee.qdn.qdata.co.za ([196.10.25.50]) by johan.sprintlink.co.za (8.8.5-MVC-230497/8.8.2/GlobalOne) with ESMTP id HAA09357 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:53:49 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199709050553.HAA09357@johan.sprintlink.co.za> From: "John Comninos" To: Subject: antigravity Old-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:48:25 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: > > > > If you drop a piece of bread, it will always fall butter side down. > > (Murphy's law). If a cat falls from a window or other high place, it > > will always land on it's feet. > > > > What happens though, if you attach a piece of bread, butter side up, > > to the back of the cat and drop the composite out of the window? Will > > the cat land on it's feet or will the butter spat on the ground? > > > > The answer if fairly easy to deduce. The laws of butterology demand > > that the butter hit the ground, but equally, the strict laws of feline > > aerodynamics demand that the cat cannot smash it's back. If the > > composite were to land,nature would have no way to resolve this > > paradox. Therefore,it simply doesn't fall. > > > > This is the secret of antigravity.A buttered cat will, when > > released,move quickly to a height where the forces of cat twisting and > > butter repulsion are in equilibrium. This point can be modified by > > scraping off some of the butter, thereby providing lift, or by tieing > > some of the cat's limbs,allowing decent. > > > > Most of the civilised species in the universe already use this system > > to drive their ships around the galaxies. Indeed,the loud humming > > sound remarked upon by most who encounter u.f.o's is, in fact, the > > purring of several hundred tabbies. > > > > The one obvious danger is, of course, if the cats manage to eat the > > bread and butter,as they immediately plummet. Naturally the cats will > > make a graceful landing on their feet. This however will do them no > > good,as right after touch down, several tons of red-hot spaceship and > > pissed off aliens crash on top of them. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 23:24:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA26906; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:22:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:22:56 -0700 Message-ID: <340FA394.E2F8F760@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 15:45:48 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Re: Can a collapsing magnetic field cause increase in torque? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <970904143550_-1633216785@emout10.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0umjF.0.Ca6.-Kw3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/475 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > To all: > I have a question I have been wanting to ask for a long time. Ask away. > If you had a permanent magnet being attracted to the magnetic field of a > large air core coil, and you had a force gauge on the permanent magnet to > indicate how much force the coil was "pulling" with, (with the coil's > current in a steady state) I ask this. > If you were to collapse the coil's magnetic field in the fastest way Jut open the circuit. As long as a spark doesn't result, its gone! > possible, (like the primary coil in a automobile spark coil), would you see > an increase in the "pulling" force on the pemanent magnet during this > collapse? (no matter of how short a period) > Thanks, > Butch LaFonte > HLafonte@aol.com Hi Butch, First, the pulling force is not directly related to the energy used to create the field. Many factors in the magnetic circuit can alter (+ & -) the pulling force. Second, No, the pulling force will not increase. A collapsing field can't generate a greater field than that which it came from. Would be a nice trick. Sorry. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 4 23:58:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA31624; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:56:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:56:44 -0700 Message-ID: <340FAB7E.B831875@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 16:19:34 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: SMOT Kit status page X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JlMG22.0.vj7.gqw3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/476 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I am working on a SMOT Kit status page. It will be up by Monday night. It will detail the new "Rollaround design", show my design / build schedule and where I am currently at with the project. There will then not be a need to ask about status. This design is final. It has one goal. No Adjustment Rollarounds. I now know enough about the dear little SMOTs to achieve a high success rate in going from design to build. I would also like to include the names of all you brave Free Energy / Vortex souls that have ordered and PAID for SMOT kits. If you object to your name being included, please send me a private email before Monday night. I wish to post the names and their email addresses to indicate the current status of their order, shipping date and when they confirm "Rollaround" and any other comments they may wish to make. While my goal is No Adjustment Rollarounds, shipping half way around the globe is asking for trouble, not to mention Murphy. I hope the people on the list will form a SMOT self help / interest group. The link will be : Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/smotkitstatus.html Back to the grindstone. *$#% SMOT @#$ SMOT #$@#$ SMOT &*#$. Its so SIMPLE!!! -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 00:49:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA24155; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 00:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 00:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:55:34 +1000 Message-Id: <199709050955.TAA18725@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: High voltage generation. Resent-Message-ID: <"rEdNu1.0.Kv5.Lax3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/477 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 10:10 AM 9/4/97 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Johann, All... > If this email you ention a marx high voltage generator could you let me know how this is constructed a brief outline if possible and how it works thanks Geoff >At 14:47 9/4/97 +0200, Johann wrote: >>By what means can I generate variable DC voltages In excess of 50 KV to 200 KV . I might be in need of even higher voltages later on. Is it possible to extract the DC component from Tesla coils with semiconductors or rather opt for Van der Graaf generator >>s of sorts. > >That depends on how much power you require, and how large the source >can be. A small Van der Graff is easy to build, and control...but >the current it can supply is very small. If you need more power, >(who doesn't) and don't have an empty barn handy, a flyback type >switching supply,that incorporates a voltage multiplier output >section will work. But if you require a blood and thunder machine, >a series resonant switching supply would be my choice for power >(a form of Tesla coil really.) > >If you require very high voltage pulses you might want to consider >building a MARX generator. > >Ahh, what memories! The crackle of a corona discharge in my ears, >and feeling the ion wind on my face. Then, the bang of a trigatron >firing, followed by such coruscation that even Zeus would be envious >...God, I love this stuff! > > >Best Regards, >JD > > > >---------------------------------------------------- >"Somewhere between anticipation and nostalgia >we should have been happy." -Too Much Coffee Man #1 > >E-mail to mules@palacenet.net > >---------------------------------------------------- > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 01:20:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA06652; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:16:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:16:11 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:10:16 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Tesla Car Circuit In-Reply-To: <199709012321.QAA05612@mail1.halcyon.com> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xKe0f3.0.md1.9_x3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/478 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Folks, :) I was toying with a few ideas re the tesla electric car circuits described in the Teslafe material. I thought of replaceing the vacuum tubes with 2N2222 transistors, and the resistors with trim pots, to tune them to the right resistance. Any thoughts re component values, diode choices, or anything like that? Thanks in advance! Regards, John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 01:38:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA08238; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:34:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:34:51 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 01:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709050834.BAA03925@iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: THE INERTIAL TAP- again ;-) Resent-Message-ID: <"AAeoH.0.d02.gGy3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/479 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello everyone, Does anyone know of a Hall effect sensor without the schmidt trigger, etc. that I could use to measure the value of a DC magnetic field? Or another method? Or do people just do it with a fixed switching point Hall sensor by changing its distance from the magnetic source? I want to optimize the cancellation of the field of a permanent magnet in all space by an electromagnet wound around it. Is a single layer solenoid with little space between the magnet and it the best that can be done? > > It is possible that a permanent magnet could be substituted for L1 but >the constant imposition of a reverse field on the magnet would require a >very high quality magnet. > > Interested in comments, as always.. > >Fred -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 01:58:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA31624; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:56:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 23:56:44 -0700 Message-ID: <340FAB7E.B831875@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 16:19:34 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: SMOT Kit status page X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JlMG22.0.vj7.gqw3q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/476 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I am working on a SMOT Kit status page. It will be up by Monday night. It will detail the new "Rollaround design", show my design / build schedule and where I am currently at with the project. There will then not be a need to ask about status. This design is final. It has one goal. No Adjustment Rollarounds. I now know enough about the dear little SMOTs to achieve a high success rate in going from design to build. I would also like to include the names of all you brave Free Energy / Vortex souls that have ordered and PAID for SMOT kits. If you object to your name being included, please send me a private email before Monday night. I wish to post the names and their email addresses to indicate the current status of their order, shipping date and when they confirm "Rollaround" and any other comments they may wish to make. While my goal is No Adjustment Rollarounds, shipping half way around the globe is asking for trouble, not to mention Murphy. I hope the people on the list will form a SMOT self help / interest group. The link will be : Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/smotkitstatus.html Back to the grindstone. *$#% SMOT @#$ SMOT #$@#$ SMOT &*#$. Its so SIMPLE!!! -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 03:00:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id CAA02624; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 22:06:40 +1000 Message-Id: <199709051206.WAA19390@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Tesla Car Circuit Resent-Message-ID: <"8yMHG2.0.ve.1Vz3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/480 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 02:10 AM 9/5/97 -0600, you wrote: > >Hi Folks, :) >I was toying with a few ideas re the tesla electric car circuits described >in the Teslafe material. >I thought of replaceing the vacuum tubes with 2N2222 transistors, and the >resistors with trim pots, to tune them to the right resistance. >Any thoughts re component values, diode choices, or anything like that? >Thanks in advance! >Regards, >John > >I heard a lot about a so called Tesla car Does any one have and gifs or information they can send me about this design Geoff Egel http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel >http://www.gecocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 05:19:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA15493; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 12:15:48 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <34109f67.27357204@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <199708290123.LAA28589@nornet.nor.com.au> <3412d4d8.34524329@mail.eisa.net.au> <3409DCEC.4248@tiac.net> <340AD811.5D8884C8@ihug.co.nz> <3410c206.33222707@mail.eisa.net.au> <340CB965.5116@tiac.net> <340cfbfb.11458563@mail.eisa.net.au> <340F6473 .5E93@tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <340F6473.5E93@tiac.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jbo_N1.0.zn3.LX_3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/481 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 04 Sep 1997 18:46:27 -0700, Bob Shannon wrote: >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >> Actually I gave this some thought before I wrote it. I'm afraid in >> this case you are wrong Bob. Electrical voltage is a scalar. The >> electrical field that is the gradient of the voltage, and is measured >> in volts/meter is the vector. Voltage itself is a very good electrical >> analogy of static pressure. >> (It's good thing I don't own a hat ;) > >Can you expand on this Robin? > >Voltage is a potential difference, with magnitude and direction. >Clearly this cannot be described as a scalar value. > >Electrostatic potnetial is an analog of static pressure, voltage is a >potential difference between two points, clearly a vector by the >standard definition of the term. > And what exactly is the difference between electrostatic potential and voltage Bob? I suspect that even you, if asked to specify the voltage between a particular component and "ground", wouldn't specify millions of different vectors between the component, and millions of different points on the ground. IOW direction is of no use in this case, so a scalar value satisfies. The difference between two scalars is still a scalar. E.g. the temperature difference between two objects (say delta T), is still a temperature and a scalar. I think that generally speaking only spatial gradients (i.e. dF/dx,y,z where F can be a scalar function), will result in vectors. So e.g. a *rate of change* in temperature with *distance* will be a vector. So the vector only appears when we divide the delta T by a delta x to create dT/dx. Because of the introduction of the dx, we have in fact introduced a spatial quantity, and with it, automatically a direction. (In this case I have used "rate" as related to spatial change rather than temporal change). Note: Whether or not rates of change in time should be considered vectors, probably depends on the specific calculations being done. If time is either considered to be variable, or "movement" backward in time can come into the picture, then such rates may well best be treated as vectors in a 4 dimensional space time. This was my primary reason for not mentioning electrical current in my previous list of scalars. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 05:23:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA16022; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:22:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: anti-gravity ..piston rocket belt ?? Cc: bshannon@tiac.net Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 14:18:55 +0100 Message-Id: <19970905141855.03741714.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"XisZH2.0.Ew3.bb_3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/482 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > >Check out www.1second.com/Tecknico.htm. You wont believe what they offer. > It is not quite what you are looking for but it is still neat stuff. Woody > > > They write there: Those Amazing Flying Machines! We guarantee that you and your friends will be amazed!! . The Piston-Powered Rocket Belt: .... Just strap it on and you're ready to fly!! This is an incredible machine that has vertical flight capability allowing its pilot to fly and hover at will without the use of wings or a fuselage. You will be amazed at its simple construction and the fact that hovering flight can be achieved by the average individual. SPECIFICATIONS Configuration......Ducted Fans Fans....................Two 36", 5-bladed Disc Area Total...14.13 Sq. Ft. Overall Height....48" Overall Width....100" Landing Gear....Feet . ENGINE Rotax 503, 2 Cylinder, 2-Cycle Air Cooled, 50 HP . PERFORMANCE Max Speed SL.................50 mph Range (@75% power).......50 miles Fuel Consumption............3 gal/hr. Rate of Climb...................500 ft/min. .. CALCULATED DATA Power Loading..............6.6 lbs/HP Payload..........................50 lbs. Fuel Capacity...................3 gal. US . WEIGHT & LOADING Gross Weight..................330 lbs. Empty Weight...................80 lbs. Useful Load.....................250 lbs. Take a flight you'll never forget!! PLANS....$20 KIT ...3500 US$ ========================================= My questions: Is this realistic ? Can this work ? Do they only sell plans or did anybody already see this device in flight ? Please let me know. Thanks ! Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 05:29:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA16750; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:27:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:27:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 06:22:16 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tesla Car Circuit In-Reply-To: <199709051206.WAA19390@main.murray.net.au> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"lDy0i1.0.Z54.hg_3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/483 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi! :) On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Geoff Egel wrote: > >I heard a lot about a so called Tesla car > Does any one have and gifs or information they can send me about this design Check out the Keelynet Mirror on Bill Beayyy's Weird Science site. That's where I got my copies. Regards, John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 05:41:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA18582; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:34:47 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: Marx Generator is no one! Re: High voltage generation. In-Reply-To: <199709050955.TAA18725@main.murray.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"517U83.0.CY4.Qs_3q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/484 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Vo., A Marx generator is not a generator, it is a pulse former or pulse forming network. A high voltage generator is used to charge capacitors in the pulse former. The caps are often in pairs, one on either side of a straight line. There are precision spark gaps for the capacitors to discharge through and the are set up to when the bank is charged they do not arc over.... quite... An initial pulse often RF-UV from spark is sent down the to the row of gaps and as it passes each gap it triggers each successive gap and the pulse builds, and, to a degree, sharpens. Makes one big pulse.... then you recharge it. Not a generator, or DC, or oscillator or source of continuous HV but it is a very neat thing. JHS On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Geoff Egel wrote: > At 10:10 AM 9/4/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi Johann, All... > > > If this email you ention a marx high voltage generator > could you let me know how this is constructed a brief outline if possible > and how it works > thanks Geoff > > > > > > > > > > > >At 14:47 9/4/97 +0200, Johann wrote: > >>By what means can I generate variable DC voltages In excess of 50 KV to > 200 KV . I might be in need of even higher voltages later on. Is it possible > to extract the DC component from Tesla coils with semiconductors or rather > opt for Van der Graaf generator > >>s of sorts. > > > >That depends on how much power you require, and how large the source > >can be. A small Van der Graff is easy to build, and control...but > >the current it can supply is very small. If you need more power, > >(who doesn't) and don't have an empty barn handy, a flyback type > >switching supply,that incorporates a voltage multiplier output > >section will work. But if you require a blood and thunder machine, > >a series resonant switching supply would be my choice for power > >(a form of Tesla coil really.) > > > >If you require very high voltage pulses you might want to consider > >building a MARX generator. > > > >Ahh, what memories! The crackle of a corona discharge in my ears, > >and feeling the ion wind on my face. Then, the bang of a trigatron > >firing, followed by such coruscation that even Zeus would be envious > >...God, I love this stuff! > > > > > >Best Regards, > >JD > > > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------- > >"Somewhere between anticipation and nostalgia > >we should have been happy." -Too Much Coffee Man #1 > > > >E-mail to mules@palacenet.net > > > >---------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 06:24:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA08428; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 06:20:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 06:20:35 -0700 Message-ID: <341006AD.3080@ctv.es> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 15:18:37 +0200 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga Reply-To: vramos@ctv.es X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tesla Car Circuit References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YYEsO.0.b32.XS04q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/485 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John R. Tooker wrote: > > Hi Folks, :) > I was toying with a few ideas re the tesla electric car circuits described > in the Teslafe material. > I thought of replaceing the vacuum tubes with 2N2222 transistors, and the > resistors with trim pots, to tune them to the right resistance. > Any thoughts re component values, diode choices, or anything like that? > Thanks in advance! > Regards, > John John A 80 HP electric motor uses 60000 W to run. Do you think this power can be generated with the valves described?. Remember these circuits not are officials. If this car not used battery, how valves were heated?. Some similar appears on the Moray device: Officially not have any battery, but have some conventional valves (except the misterious valve). How valves were heated? Vicente. -- Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga E-mail: vramos@ctv.es Home Page: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm Burriana (Castellon) SPAIN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 06:42:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id GAA26537; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 06:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 06:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:34:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Tesla Car Circuit To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <341006AD.3080@ctv.es> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PZLZF3.0.VU6.aj04q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/486 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga wrote: > John R. Tooker wrote: > > > > Hi Folks, :) > > I was toying with a few ideas re the tesla electric car circuits described > > in the Teslafe material. > > I thought of replaceing the vacuum tubes with 2N2222 transistors, and the > > resistors with trim pots, to tune them to the right resistance. > > Any thoughts re component values, diode choices, or anything like that? > > Thanks in advance! > > Regards, > > John > John > A 80 HP electric motor uses 60000 W to run. Do you think this power can > be generated with the valves described?. Remember these circuits not are > officials. If this car not used battery, how valves were heated?. > Some similar appears on the Moray device: Officially not have any > battery, but have some conventional valves (except the misterious > valve). How valves were heated? > Vicente. I just saw something on this recently (I think it was on Keelynet). The new data indicated that Tesla's device used a battery to power the filaments, at least during startup. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 06:43:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id GAA26794; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 06:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 06:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <9709050837.ZM27597@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:37:49 -0500 In-Reply-To: Bob Shannon "Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5" (Sep 4, 6:45pm) References: <340F124D.43FF@motown.lmco.com> <340EF079.6883FF1E@microtronics.com.au> <340F6E87.405@tiac.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"Mrq2J3.0.VY6.Ml04q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/487 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 4, 6:45pm, Bob Shannon wrote: > Greg Watson wrote: > > Dubious no, observer dependent yes. > > Observer dependent phenomena ARE dubious from the conventional science > perspective. Not many things discussed here are "conventional science" 8^) "experimenter dependent" is a more realistic term as each of us has unique knowlege, experience, skills, or resources to bring to the table. > Forgive the phrase, but maybe sucessful and unsucessful SMOT'ers should > swap balls? I don't think that will help. If how you hold the hammer affects how you hit the nail, switching hammers isn't going to help much. -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 07:25:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA21593; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:19:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:19:00 -0700 Message-ID: <34101070.AB790002@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 02:00:18 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Does any one find this of intrest? Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7AC7FF36FB66B94C2CD56464" Resent-Message-ID: <"BOTdk3.0.DH5.JJ14q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/488 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7AC7FF36FB66B94C2CD56464 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fools current I tried an experiment that confirmed a theory I had about electricity, that someone could create a power source that if somebody measured the voltage and then measured the maximum amperage that would flow through an near zero resistance they would get say 200v and 10 amps (both flat line DC) and multiply it they would have the apparent value of 2000 watts, but the maximum output could be only 25 watts or less! This is done by placing two power sources in parallel, one has a voltage of only .5v but up to 10 amps with a diode in series so power can not flow the wrong way through battery. The other power source has 200v and .1 of an amp and is in parallel with the other battery and diode. If you measure the voltage you are measuring that of the second battery and if you measure the amps you are measuring that of the first battery. note: some people will not understand how a power source can have 200 volts and have a maximum amperage output of only .1 of an amp, Well it does not have anything to do with internal resistance it is because the device has a maximum output like my neon transformer, there is not much internal resistance but and it has 12,000v output but it will not creep above 30 ma if I measure the amps! it is the same reason that you can get 13 9v batteries and get only a small buzz at most, the amperage does not just depend on resistance and voltage but also the energy that the device can output. Think of an eddy current induced in a superconductor by a magnet, the amperage would be infinite, there is no resistance! but there is only so much amperage that can be put into the superconductor. 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Re: High voltage generation. In-Reply-To: References: <199709050955.TAA18725@main.murray.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"f9m8I.0.bM1.Kd14q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/489 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 08:34 9/5/97 -0400, John Schnurer wrote: > > > Dear Vo., > > A Marx generator is not a generator, it is a pulse former or >pulse forming network. It is not a pulse forming network. With a forming network, like a Blumlein, or artificial transmission line, you shove a pulse in one end and get a pulse that is shaped differently, hopefully sharper (usually), from the other end. A Marx generator is an arraignment of capacitors, spark gaps and large resistances. The resistances charge the capacitors in parallel. The gaps are adjusted to be near breakdown when the caps are charged...then one gap, is fired. There is a cascade effect as the voltage stress on the remaining gaps now increases, and they are positioned so the radiation from the gaps will illuminate one another. This reduces the gaps breakdown voltage further. There are many refinements that can be made, but this is the basic machine. It's useful for the generation of pulses that simulate EMP. I bet such a device would be dandy for generation of scalar waves too. Hmm.... It generates very high voltage, high energy, pulses. In the literature it is called a Marx generator. If you connected the capacitors to charge in series, then discharge in parallel it's an Xram generator. Marx spelled backwards. Oh, those wacky physicists Best Regards, JD ------------------------------------------------------------ The beasts of the wild Will be led by a child And I will be changed from the thing that I am. -Nelson Algren E-mail to: mules@palacenet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 07:56:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA27781; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:53:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 07:53:26 -0700 Message-ID: <341018AA.3AF721A2@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 02:35:24 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: mabey this is of intrest? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pGip-3.0.zn6.bp14q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/490 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I recently did an experiment were I had two coils of the same number of turns with the same current going through them (same ampere turns (gauss)) with different diameters , the small one was placed inside the larger one with there poles opposing so that one may expect there fields to cancel in the center, but there was a field in the center, it was that of the small coil, if there was an iron core going through the center there would be no E.M.F or back E.M.F. induced in them (oh that is because they were in series) due to them both having equal and opposite voltages induced in them, but they would induce a secondary on that same iron core. Or one could increase to the windings of the larger diameter coil so that there is no field in the center and then have a primary on the core so as to pump magnetic flux through it and induce that double coil which is now the secondary and due to the different number of turns (and you are not putting any current through it now of course) there is an overall induction but no magnetic flux in the center so you don't have a back E.M.F. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 08:12:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA31494; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:09:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:09:39 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCBA15.742CBDA0@que2-p7.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Does any one find this of intrest? Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:04:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBA15.742CBDA0" Resent-Message-ID: <"2ZciY2.0._h7.o224q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/491 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA15.742CBDA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello John, John Berry wrote: ><> >Fools current > >I tried an experiment that confirmed a theory I had about electricity, >that someone could create a power source that if somebody measured the >voltage and then measured the maximum amperage that would flow through >an near zero resistance they would get say 200v and 10 amps (both flat >line DC) and multiply it they would have the apparent value of 2000 >watts, but the maximum output could be only 25 watts or less! > >This is done by placing two power sources in parallel, one has a = voltage >of only .5v but up to 10 amps with a diode in series so power can not >flow the wrong way through battery. >The other power source has 200v and .1 of an amp and is in parallel = with >the other battery and diode. >If you measure the voltage you are measuring that of the second battery >and if you measure the amps you are measuring that of the first = battery. >note: some people will not understand how a power source can have 200 >volts and have a maximum amperage output of only .1 of an amp, Well it >does not have anything to do with internal resistance it is because the >device has a maximum output like my neon transformer, there is not much >internal resistance but and it has 12,000v output but it will not creep >above 30 ma if I measure the amps! it is the same reason that you can >get 13 9v batteries and get only a small buzz at most, the amperage >does not just depend on resistance and voltage but also the energy that >the device can output. >Think of an eddy current induced in a superconductor by a magnet, the >amperage would be infinite, there is no resistance! >but there is only so much amperage that can be put into the >superconductor. > >John Berry Have you tried measuring the voltage at the 200V battery terminals = *while* current is flowing? It seems like you have beaten good old Ohm :-) Regards, Ant=F3nio Vilela ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA15.742CBDA0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjgQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAnAAAAUkU6 IERvZXMgYW55IG9uZSBmaW5kIHRoaXMgb2YgaW50cmVzdD8APA0BBYADAA4AAADNBwkABQAQAAQA MwAFAC4BASCAAwAOAAAAzQcJAAUAEAAAADQABQArAQEJgAEAIQAAADc4QjI5OERERTcyNUQxMTFC QkRCNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAAIHAQOQBgCEBwAAFAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMA LgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAQDDwcBW6vAEeAHAAAQAAACcAAABSRTogRG9lcyBhbnkgb25lIGZp bmQgdGhpcyBvZiBpbnRyZXN0PwAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAby6FXDw3ZiyeSXnEdG720RFU1QAAAAA HgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABcAAAB2aWxlbGFAbWFpbC50ZWxlcGFjLnB0AAAD AAYQesPtigMABxDmBQAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASEVMTE9KT0hOLEpPSE5CRVJSWVdST1RFOjw8RklM RTpDVVJSRU5USlBHRk9PTFNDVVJSRU5USVRSSUVEQU5FWFBFUklNRU5UVEhBVENPTkZJUk1FREFU SEVPUllJSEFEQUJPVQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAOUFAADhBQAAHw8AAExaRnU5N4pu/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF 6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzIDxgcTAoO6MxMNfQqACM8J2TsV/3gyNTUCgAqBDbEL YG56ZwHQNw3wCwoS8gwBYyEAQCBIZWwVkCBKMG9obiwKhQqLbGnIMTQ0AtFpLRzzDNAnHPMZzxsz IEIEkHJ5RCB3A2B0ZToLSjF2NgqgIBJjBUAKjxoMPo8LRhQiDAEhVjw8RgMQASBAIENVUlJFToBU LmpwZz4+IddnIr8jzyFlRm8G8AQgY/8IcBYAAjAmnyevJE4qjyufkSROSSB0CIFkIAOR+GV4cAZx B4ACMDDQEcDrBUAFoG4dQHIHgDEhMhF+ZQWwH+AwwBHAMSEG4HUPBUAa8CGRBRBjaXR53xuGLh8v Ly0XMiNzA3AzUGRuZTJhdWwxIAUAZccyQDjwMxBwb3cEkDiBfQhwYzjwMiMGkDiDBuBk8x/gB4Bh cwhwMREzMTUvWzY/JE52BvABkGc5wW5PPFMDoDvqO9BheAdwdbptMTBtMZFAAjIjdzkjjxjQOhAy EQNgdWdoPK/fPb8kTgOROOAKwXoEkBsgqxYAAJBzAZBuOqNlH+E3OSNAEDhxYR/gAdAwdtlAMzEw QhIEICgG4DIgf0NRMkBEL0U/JE4c0DjhRLxDKUAzQeA/4AUgbB/gtzTgSLoRwHZIozEwcCIBzTHi dgdAClAgbzswSfEvCnhMP01PIWV3MkB0c7gsIGI0MUFqNCFwNDH1ORRiUmFuT/EYMFYEUnD3BcAl gAQQIVL/VA8sr1n/c1sPJF1UaAQAOxAEIGT9ONJiH+ALUTTQGQAw0EMAvzn7YFEDoCIBB0AlgGxW YP840hHABCAzED/FXQ9eHyROM1KBWIMuNUogVoJ1cD8w0BsgSoYD8EsxMxBkaX8EcWKyEfAIgQQg OJA59WP/R0IgIGSvZb8kTkNlOPAgAX9hcVYQH+BDtVZwViEEkHn+LhuebK9tv1+3UmEzMQXA9zoL Y9JJ9y4awFKBA5FCIf9AM2BCYthpk3Hfcu83T3UH/3DlQDNqE3Ffeg97HzBWOzD+eQhgO9ZBUz/G ghJRwTvV/2FjMjJSgUFiEfAycVgxcPT/fs9/30ZPeBKB/0qkg5+Eq/8yoUhQcN+Gb4d/JF1r4SWR /ziSOfAzUAtQb6EDEAMga+H/aLBAUASQSFJQ4UOBOe1rov9RA0nxjm+Pfz7PP9Fj8ZOyf1ESMxBB r1eFZ8d3SVZgV/8a8VARld+W7yROYKAHkZLy+ZmUbnkyIGFjGyBgoGmU+wuAjaFuB0BIClAhYEFY UH1roHUR8Dxvni+fP6BCZd52NMBjtlcNHNBrQYEf4L844AIgMNEAcQIQMsFyVmD/dUJqUaCkQeAR sKTvpf8kTj+inzqhVoJ4A6DiBCAxMv4sUsFKIFeFVoJQIZKnOXF8ZXCsf62PiH8G4FEhM99KkADA OxIwwIouIaPFhTP/QiA48DmBOJCqcTIyghJroQ+0D7UfJE5JcjEzICD+OWhhjYNq0kBCSXJYgzMQ znMAwJLBVoB6ejEwrBH+b0hQq0NCF7t/vI+nD6CG/mqkcKfiMZBAUaphSBlAQn8/xrDTKeAbIEFi CfAEkGf/cEJLj8PPxN9BU6gFa6JXhM+N5srfy+9fmm5rd1UJgPc7sSoVYrFkrEAxEWLBwLH/aMAE kIWSrEBo8H0RwJIAwP5nOODB5M7vz/+2L0I2QwT/WFELgB1AAwAgMKtLSAlZ3//XX9hvVoWrlFiD axGsMkId/2uiWFFXsq+RyVPcr92/JE7/1GzO3+R/5Y/nj+ifJE4fWP8h3xoH6p8aSVESghIw5Iu6 b4L4MkFBYknxVn0njaFtYwuAySEgKndgMCWAKq/TCAQgQ2JhYT8bnEk4cf0J4G0EIKnDghJRA1hQ OaGdA6BnKcDHITlBT2hCAIg6LSkbnFJlZwsRy1ZQ7mVBAjBcJxQQAwC9GyBWJXELYO5lFSEA/uAA AAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMKCAyeIUurwBQAAIMKCAyeIUurwBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6 IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAA+X ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA15.742CBDA0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 08:16:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id IAA10015; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:14:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:14:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34101D38.8E952B2C@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 02:54:48 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: what do you think about my ZFS? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hacIg2.0.GS2.9724q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/492 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I did an experiment recently in which I found that if you put a half wave rectified AC in to the primary you will not only heat up your transformer a bit (and full wave rectified will totally cook it), you will get an output that is AC but has a DC component! The DC part is small but it is real and not toooo weak. Well Before this experiment I had an idea of a setup of lots of transformers with the secondary in series and an overall DC induction with the primaries at different parts of the wave (half wave rectified AC) so that there would be just a smooth DC current in the secondary that would not back induce the primaries, I called it ZFS for Zero Fluctuation Secondary, without any fluctuation you would not have any back EMF. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 08:27:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA02543; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:24:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:24:40 -0700 Message-ID: <34101FFF.88A8099F@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 03:06:40 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Does any one find this of intrest? References: <01BCBA15.742CBDA0@que2-p7.telepac.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RiCYy2.0.ed.tG24q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/493 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: You will get almost zero voltage when you have a low resistance path, the pressure will just not build up, of course that is true with many power sources. António Vilela wrote: > Hello John, > > John Berry wrote: > ><> > >Fools current > > > >I tried an experiment that confirmed a theory I had about electricity, > >that someone could create a power source that if somebody measured the > >voltage and then measured the maximum amperage that would flow through > >an near zero resistance they would get say 200v and 10 amps (both flat > >line DC) and multiply it they would have the apparent value of 2000 > >watts, but the maximum output could be only 25 watts or less! > > > >This is done by placing two power sources in parallel, one has a voltage > >of only .5v but up to 10 amps with a diode in series so power can not > >flow the wrong way through battery. > > >The other power source has 200v and .1 of an amp and is in parallel with > >the other battery and diode. > > >If you measure the voltage you are measuring that of the second battery > >and if you measure the amps you are measuring that of the first battery. > > >note: some people will not understand how a power source can have 200 > >volts and have a maximum amperage output of only .1 of an amp, Well it > >does not have anything to do with internal resistance it is because the > >device has a maximum output like my neon transformer, there is not much > >internal resistance but and it has 12,000v output but it will not creep > >above 30 ma if I measure the amps! it is the same reason that you can > >get 13 9v batteries and get only a small buzz at most, the amperage > >does not just depend on resistance and voltage but also the energy that > >the device can output. > >Think of an eddy current induced in a superconductor by a magnet, the > >amperage would be infinite, there is no resistance! > >but there is only so much amperage that can be put into the > >superconductor. > > > >John Berry > > Have you tried measuring the voltage at the 200V battery terminals *while* current is flowing? > > It seems like you have beaten good old Ohm :-) > > Regards, > António Vilela > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 08:42:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA06584; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:39:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:39:09 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970904183738.006add7c@multinet.net.il> X-Sender: BUSHI@multinet.net.il X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 18:37:38 +0300 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lev Robert Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator In-Reply-To: <92562@.multinet.net.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"eW9oO2.0.gc1.SU24q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/494 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Steve,All Anybody has the detailes necessary to build the project? I couldn't find any detailes that enables the building. Robert At 05:29 AM 04-09-97 GMT+0200, you wrote: >Hi Steve, > >The waveform used was a 600 Hz +/- 5 Hz Carrier wave amplitude modulated by >a 20-200 Hz signal. > >---------- >> From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator >> Date: Wednesday, September 03, 1997 3:19 PM >> >> >> >> >> > by Puharich on the construction of this device if you want it, >> >Geoff. >> >> > >> >> > Fred >> >> I seen a diagram of his device several years ago but it didn't include >> the frequency that he used. Does anyone know? >> >> Steve Heckman > > > BUSHILEV From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 09:10:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA17832; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BCBA1D.1D5A3400@que2-p7.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Does any one find this of intrest? Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:59:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBA1D.1D5A3400" Resent-Message-ID: <"sv4FZ3.0.VM4.Et24q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/495 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA1D.1D5A3400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John Berry wrote: >You will get almost zero voltage when you have a low resistance path, = the >pressure will just not build up, of course that is >true with many power sources. And what would then be the generated power (VxI)?=20 Ant=F3nio Vilela ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA1D.1D5A3400 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ii4QAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAnAAAAUkU6 IERvZXMgYW55IG9uZSBmaW5kIHRoaXMgb2YgaW50cmVzdD8APA0BBYADAA4AAADNBwkABQAQADsA KwAFAF0BASCAAwAOAAAAzQcJAAUAEAA6ABQABQBFAQEJgAEAIQAAADg0QjI5OERERTcyNUQxMTFC QkRCNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAP8GAQOQBgBYAwAAFAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMA LgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAgNFrGx26vAEeAHAAAQAAACcAAABSRTogRG9lcyBhbnkgb25lIGZp bmQgdGhpcyBvZiBpbnRyZXN0PwAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAby6HRtr3ZiyhSXnEdG720RFU1QAAAAA HgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABcAAAB2aWxlbGFAbWFpbC50ZWxlcGFjLnB0AAAD AAYQqsAM2QMABxDCAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASk9ITkJFUlJZV1JPVEU6WU9VV0lMTEdFVEFMTU9T VFpFUk9WT0xUQUdFV0hFTllPVUhBVkVBTE9XUkVTSVNUQU5DRVBBVEgsVEhFUFJFU1NVUkVXSUxM SlVTVE5PVEJVSUxEVQAAAAACAQkQAQAAALoBAAC2AQAAGgMAAExaRnXMfKcC/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF 6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzIDxgcTAoMyMxMPZjQDxQIAcHJCcRIic3RlbQKAfRcK gAjPCdk7F58yNTVPAoAKgQ2xC2BuZwHQN4MN8AsDbGkxNDQC0fxpLRuDDNAbgwtVEvIMAUJjAEAg Sm9oA6BCYQSQcnkgdwNgFnA62QtKMTYKoB6iYwVACo+9HQw+C0YUIgwBH+ZZCGDXHoADEAMgZxIA IAdABGCJFmAgegSQbyB2BvCXAZAkYB6AaAnwIHkj4eURwHYlwGEgFzAH4BegNwCQFmAAcGMlwCCQ dGj8LCAn8CXAIS8iPx/XFfCdB5BzCHAlwSQianUk4SJuHrAgYnUDEGQgxHVwKBBvZiAFoAhw9xHw KCEn4CAEACBnKJ8pr7kf9XRyClAkASfwIAOBzR5wcCbwBJAgcwhhJ6B8cy4uTSLkIFgu3yBlQe5u LNAl4C3xdwhgLMEoMd0DoGItsiXAJGBuBJAn4AMJgDJFKFZ4SSk/4yBWNjd0XCcUEAMAJUD6VgMQ ZQtgIG8dCB/tFsECAD6QAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMMBZy+kcurwBQAAIMMBZy+kcurwB HgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAADri ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA1D.1D5A3400-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 09:21:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA19800; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34105A8E.1E0A@motown.lmco.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 12:16:30 -0700 From: francis x roarty Reply-To: froarty@motown.lmco.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Does any one find this of intrest? References: <01BCBA15.742CBDA0@que2-p7.telepac.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xheAA3.0.Hr4.g434q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/496 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: António Vilela wrote: > > Hello John, > > John Berry wrote: > ><> > >Fools current > > > >I tried an experiment that confirmed a theory I had about electricity, > >that someone could create a power source that if somebody measured the > >voltage and then measured the maximum amperage that would flow through > >an near zero resistance they would get say 200v and 10 amps (both flat > >line DC) and multiply it they would have the apparent value of 2000 > >watts, but the maximum output could be only 25 watts or less! > > > >This is done by placing two power sources in parallel, one has a voltage > >of only .5v but up to 10 amps with a diode in series so power can not > >flow the wrong way through battery. > > >The other power source has 200v and .1 of an amp and is in parallel with > >the other battery and diode. > > >If you measure the voltage you are measuring that of the second battery > >and if you measure the amps you are measuring that of the first battery. > > >note: some people will not understand how a power source can have 200 > >volts and have a maximum amperage output of only .1 of an amp, Well it > >does not have anything to do with internal resistance it is because the > >device has a maximum output like my neon transformer, there is not much > >internal resistance but and it has 12,000v output but it will not creep > >above 30 ma if I measure the amps! it is the same reason that you can > >get 13 9v batteries and get only a small buzz at most, the amperage > >does not just depend on resistance and voltage but also the energy that > >the device can output. > >Think of an eddy current induced in a superconductor by a magnet, the > >amperage would be infinite, there is no resistance! > >but there is only so much amperage that can be put into the > >superconductor. > > > >John Berry > > Have you tried measuring the voltage at the 200V battery terminals *while* current is flowing? > > It seems like you have beaten good old Ohm :-) > > Regards, > António Vilela > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 Yes antonio, you have the flaw in his logic, the amp meter shorts the supply and the 200v colapses but the high current supply sources it's 10 amps - He never has 200v AND 10a, he has 200v OR 10a. Frank From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 09:38:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA22995; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34103058.AF218B88@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 04:16:24 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Does any one find this of intrest? References: <01BCBA1D.1D5A3400@que2-p7.telepac.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pGPWb.0.7d5.2K34q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/498 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: It would be 25 watts;power source 1 plus power source 2 = true wattage ps1 .5v x 10I = 5watts ps2 200v x .1I = 20 watts ps1 + ps2 = true wattage 25 watts António Vilela wrote: > John Berry wrote: > >You will get almost zero voltage when you have a low resistance path, the >pressure will just not build up, of course that is > >true with many power sources. > > And what would then be the generated power (VxI)? > > António Vilela > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 09:42:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA22375; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34105DA9.5B8B@motown.lmco.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 12:29:45 -0700 From: francis x roarty Reply-To: froarty@motown.lmco.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: what do you think about my ZFS? References: <34101D38.8E952B2C@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sGv881.0.WT5.nH34q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/497 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John Berry wrote: > > I did an experiment recently in which I found that if you put a half > wave rectified AC in to the primary you will not only heat up your > transformer a bit (and full wave rectified will totally cook it), you > will get an output that is AC but has a DC component! > The DC part is small but it is real and not toooo weak. > > Well Before this experiment I had an idea of a setup of lots of > transformers with the secondary in series and an overall DC induction > with the primaries at different parts of the wave (half wave rectified > AC) so that there would be just a smooth DC current in the secondary > that would not back induce the primaries, I called it ZFS for Zero > Fluctuation Secondary, without any fluctuation you would not have any > back EMF. John, the dc component in the secondary should disappear if you use battery operated test equipment to perform the measurement. Frank From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 09:40:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA19538; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:37:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:37:45 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709051634.JAA18077@germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: mabey this is of interest? Resent-Message-ID: <"DxYdr1.0.7n4.NL34q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/499 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 02:35 AM 9/6/97 +1200, you wrote: >I recently did an experiment were I had two coils of the same number of >turns with the same current going through them (same ampere turns >(gauss)) with different diameters How close were your diameters? A larger diameter coil with the same amp-turns will produce less B field. If d=diameter, l=length of the solenoid, I= current, N= number turns B=uNI/sqrt(d*d+l*l) at center of the solenoid. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 10:05:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA26824; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3410366D.269AC3EA@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 04:42:21 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: froarty@motown.lmco.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Does any one find this of intrest? References: <01BCBA15.742CBDA0@que2-p7.telepac.pt> <34105A8E.1E0A@motown.lmco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WukGP2.0.1Z6.sj34q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/500 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: That is not the 'flaw in my logic' it is not meant to measure both at the same time, You never measure voltage when you are measuring the amperage, you will always get almost zero volts with small resistance e.g... you can measure high voltage by having a spark gap but will the current still arc across the spark gap when you have a path of little resistance such as an amp meter? NO of course not. many/all power sources have this quality of measuring a low voltage when there is a short and you are measuring across the short. of course there is only a small energy but it will look large to any device that does not use the energy, unless something that has a varying resistance so the amperage can be taken at several diffrent resistances from almost zero medium to high, of course if the resistance is not almost zero or very very high then it will use a lot of energy anyway. francis x roarty wrote: > António Vilela wrote: > > > > Hello John, > > > > John Berry wrote: > > ><> > > >Fools current > > > > > >I tried an experiment that confirmed a theory I had about electricity, > > >that someone could create a power source that if somebody measured the > > >voltage and then measured the maximum amperage that would flow through > > >an near zero resistance they would get say 200v and 10 amps (both flat > > >line DC) and multiply it they would have the apparent value of 2000 > > >watts, but the maximum output could be only 25 watts or less! > > > > > >This is done by placing two power sources in parallel, one has a voltage > > >of only .5v but up to 10 amps with a diode in series so power can not > > >flow the wrong way through battery. > > > > >The other power source has 200v and .1 of an amp and is in parallel with > > >the other battery and diode. > > > > >If you measure the voltage you are measuring that of the second battery > > >and if you measure the amps you are measuring that of the first battery. > > > > >note: some people will not understand how a power source can have 200 > > >volts and have a maximum amperage output of only .1 of an amp, Well it > > >does not have anything to do with internal resistance it is because the > > >device has a maximum output like my neon transformer, there is not much > > >internal resistance but and it has 12,000v output but it will not creep > > >above 30 ma if I measure the amps! it is the same reason that you can > > >get 13 9v batteries and get only a small buzz at most, the amperage > > >does not just depend on resistance and voltage but also the energy that > > >the device can output. > > >Think of an eddy current induced in a superconductor by a magnet, the > > >amperage would be infinite, there is no resistance! > > >but there is only so much amperage that can be put into the > > >superconductor. > > > > > >John Berry > > > > Have you tried measuring the voltage at the 200V battery terminals *while* current is flowing? > > > > It seems like you have beaten good old Ohm :-) > > > > Regards, > > António Vilela > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > > Encoding: base64 > Yes antonio, > you have the flaw in his logic, the amp meter shorts the supply and the > 200v colapses but the high current supply sources it's 10 amps - He > never has 200v AND 10a, he has 200v OR 10a. > Frank From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 10:12:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA28187; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <341038B1.A245E9A7@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 04:52:01 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: what do you think about my ZFS? References: <34101D38.8E952B2C@ihug.co.nz> <34105DA9.5B8B@motown.lmco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iyiJA.0.Ku6.iq34q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/501 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I did use battery operated test equipment to perform the measurement. francis x roarty wrote: >>John Berry wrote:>> I did an experiment recently in which I found that if you put a half>>blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah >> back EMF. >John, >the dc component in the secondary should disappear if you use battery >operated test equipment to perform the measurement. >Frank From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 10:32:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA02618; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:29:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:29:02 -0700 Message-ID: <34103D28.332B2F14@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 05:11:05 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: mabey this is of interest? References: <199709051634.JAA18077@germany.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OkTGo3.0.ie.S544q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/502 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: B field? isn't that gauss? Do I have it wrong? can't you tell the gauss buy the ampere turns? does the induction around a torrid core transformer drop of as the distance or the inverse square? If you have a larger diameter secondary coil around a torrid core transformer with the same number of turns as a smaller one are both induced with the same voltage. A larger diameter coil with the same amp-turns will produce less B field. Are you sure? Oh and when I said at the center I meant within the small coil and not the exact center. Does the flux density (inside an ordinary coil) change e.g... is it weaker in the center? (I am sure it does not but I thought I knew other things which are now being challenged) Dave Dameron wrote: > At 02:35 AM 9/6/97 +1200, you wrote: > >I recently did an experiment were I had two coils of the same number of > >turns with the same current going through them (same ampere turns > >(gauss)) with different diameters > How close were your diameters? A larger diameter coil with the same amp-turns > will produce less B field. > If d=diameter, > l=length of the solenoid, I= current, N= number turns > B=uNI/sqrt(d*d+l*l) at center of the solenoid. > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 10:46:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA04787; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:43:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:43:37 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCBA2A.F7388340@que2-p7.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Does any one find this of intrest? Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:38:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBA2A.F7388340" Resent-Message-ID: <"0IjyW3.0.iA1.6J44q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/503 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA2A.F7388340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John Berry wrote: >It would be 25 watts;power source 1 plus power source 2 =3D true = wattage >ps1 .5v x 10I =3D 5watts >ps2 200v x .1I =3D 20 watts >ps1 + ps2 =3D true wattage 25 watts That would seem to be the maximum electrical power available to you but = then again, why don't you measure your real V and I, multiply them and = then report back to us? I bet it will be less than that. Ant=F3nio Vilela ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA2A.F7388340 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjcSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAnAAAAUkU6 IERvZXMgYW55IG9uZSBmaW5kIHRoaXMgb2YgaW50cmVzdD8APA0BBYADAA4AAADNBwkABQASACYA LwAFAE4BASCAAwAOAAAAzQcJAAUAEgAkAAYABQAjAQEJgAEAIQAAADlCQjI5OERERTcyNUQxMTFC QkRCNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAA4HAQOQBgCgAwAAFAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMA LgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkA4LZQ8iq6vAEeAHAAAQAAACcAAABSRTogRG9lcyBhbnkgb25lIGZp bmQgdGhpcyBvZiBpbnRyZXN0PwAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAby6KvJQ3ZiynCXnEdG720RFU1QAAAAA HgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABcAAAB2aWxlbGFAbWFpbC50ZWxlcGFjLnB0AAAD AAYQ7lpKlQMABxAvAQAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASk9ITkJFUlJZV1JPVEU6SVRXT1VMREJFMjVXQVRU UztQT1dFUlNPVVJDRTFQTFVTUE9XRVJTT1VSQ0UyPVRSVUVXQVRUQUdFUFMxNVZYMTBJPTVXQVRU U1BTMjIwMFZYMUk9MgAAAAACAQkQAQAAAAQCAAAAAgAAugMAAExaRnUvFUax/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF 6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzIDxgcTAoPGMwPFAgBwcnESIBOIMjQTD2Y1FDwGsHN0 9GVtAoB9CoAIzwnZAoCnCoENsQtgbmcB0DcN8K8LChWyDAEUwG8YAGMFQChKb2gDoEIEkHJ59CB3 HJI6CocLZBQiAdCsID4bnxykSQVAdwhgAGxkIGJlIDI1BR2gYQJAcztwb3cpBJAgcwhhYyGQMSA9 C1B1BCAjICJaEiA9IIx0cgpQIdNhZ2UeHxMfLxxKcHMjECAuNUh2IHgjADBJJHE1PyHjJW8mfyeM EiAhoDAw+yiyKIAxKRIq4SlvKn8rj/0oQisshCSMIacKhS5PL1O+VBHAIQYR8BgQJJBvIXKsdGgh kADAeAdwdTXwbGVsHMEFEGMHQCOFYb52C3ALYAJgNlE2IHkIYH0hcHUFQDZxA6AlMAtxLNUdoGgd kGQCICcFQDkS+QeAYXMIcCGQOREFwBkw1TexVjgwbiFgSTowNvD0bHQFIGwdkDZxNfA8cr85kxkw IkAAICFwANBrNgL9I1A/L78cpAqPC5ES8i9x3zO/L1MpECGABUBpIQEDEH8DICGBN0AEETZwA5FF UXTKLjNMQQIwXCcUEAMAbTYgVgMQNzBhQOUYUQABSJADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMKAUIJIq urwBQAAIMKAUIJIqurwBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAO7r ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA2A.F7388340-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 11:26:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA12945; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:23:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:23:22 -0700 Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <9709051323.ZM29935@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 13:23:11 -0500 In-Reply-To: Rich Murray "[Fwd: Blue on subtleties of radioactive decay chains]" (Sep 5, 12:50pm) References: <3410392C.5D0D@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Blue Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"AgUSK3.0.5A3.Pu44q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/504 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 5, 12:50pm, Rich Murray wrote: > Dick Blue Why is this conversation 3rd party? This is insane. If Blue can't or won't join this list officially there is probably a good reason for it. -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 11:29:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA07833; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BCBA31.05E6B1E0@que3-p12.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: what do you think about my ZFS? Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:21:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBA31.060843A0" Resent-Message-ID: <"mXngS.0.Hw1.Zy44q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/505 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA31.060843A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John Berry wrote: >I did an experiment recently in which I found that if you put a half >wave rectified AC in to the primary you will not only heat up your >transformer a bit (and full wave rectified will totally cook it), you >will get an output that is AC but has a DC component! >The DC part is small but it is real and not toooo weak. > >Well Before this experiment I had an idea of a setup of lots of >transformers with the secondary in series and an overall DC induction >with the primaries at different parts of the wave (half wave rectified >AC) so that there would be just a smooth DC current in the secondary >that would not back induce the primaries, I called it ZFS for Zero >Fluctuation Secondary, without any fluctuation you would not have any >back EMF. Very interesting John, Did you use a high impedance (scope or voltmeter) instrument to measure = the voltage? Can you send us some more data? Voltages in the primary, secondary, DC component? How does the DC = component varies placing a 1K resistor across the secondary terminals? Thanks for your info. 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I made a mistake in the geometry of the coils and = >decided >>the idea was not workable. I realized this morning that I had = confused a >>subsidiary issue of coil placement with the basic principle of the = machine. >> >> The simple circuit in my GIF shows that it is possible to violate = Lenz's >>law using a bifilar noninductive (NI) coil. >> >> With the switch in position 1 there is a current flowing through L1 = and >>a magnetic field around it. >> When the switch is in position 2 current passes back the way it = came and >>the magnetic field goes rapidly to zero. A voltage is induced in L3 = because >>of the changing magnetic field, and the changing magnetic field of = that >>voltage induces a countervoltage in L1 and L2 (back EMF, Lenz's law in >>operation). >> =20 > >I am still looking for a simple experiment to show me that back emf = does exist. > Woody Try this: Take a Si diode and place it in series with the primary of a = transformer. Then apply 50 Hz and watch the voltage at the primary (or = the secondary) with a scope. Then place a few Ohm resistor across the = secondary and check again. In case you are thinking of high impedances or energy not flowing or the = like, try removing the transformer altogether and check the waveform at = the diode's open terminal. 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T. Whittaker papers on the web. Didn't see that they ended up any place, but I might have messed the message. So...with A Little Help From My Friends...I've got one of the obscure original TROFF files of Jon Noring converted to a modern PDF file. You can see "On An Expression of the Electromagnetic Field Due To Electrons By Means of Two Scalar Potential Functions" by E. T. Whittaker at: http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock/1904.htm If any one knows of any other Scalar pages/papers e-mail me the URL or address and I'll see if I can make a page that links to them all. I'll see if I can get the other Whittaker paper up as soon as I figure out how... -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 13:54:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA06276; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 13:51:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 13:51:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970905155047.006a3e50@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 15:50:47 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: RE: THE INERTIAL TAP- again ;-) In-Reply-To: <01BCBA3A.C4059160@que3-p12.telepac.pt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"aXcQJ2.0.qX1.y274q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/508 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Woody, All.... Along ago , and far away...Woody wrote: >>I am still looking for a simple experiment to show me that back emf does exist. >> Woody Lenz stated that whenever a current is set up by a change of flux though a circuit, it's direction will be such to oppose the act that caused it. So, take a coil of wire, and shove the N pole of a bar magnet through it while measuring the EMF produced at it's terminals. In order to oppose this act, the adjacent face of the coil must acquire N polarity....this would have the current flowing counter-clockwise as viewed from the magnet. Without back EMF there would be no opposition to the growth of current in an inductor, the property of inductance is the manifestation of back EMF...or is it the other way around. :) Anyway, you cannot have one without the other. Best Regards, JD ---------------------------------------------------- "Somewhere between anticipation and nostalgia we should have been happy." -Too Much Coffee Man #1 E-mail to mules@palacenet.net ---------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 14:33:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA12783; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:29:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:29:58 -0700 Message-ID: <34107975.7DC0@cmet.net> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 17:28:21 -0400 From: Felix Meyer Reply-To: ce3cwf@cmet.net Organization: CE3CWF X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: E field(non-scalar "REAL")inside charged box? (PLEASE HELP!!!!) References: <970903172352_707290258@emout14.mail.aol.com> <340E59B1.A623259B@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_iiOb3.0.e73.Ld74q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/509 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John Berry wrote: > > Does this picture Help? > It has two different embodiments, if all were of the same voltage there would be > no E field as measured by a probe placed inside the box. > The walls are metal and insulated into 3 parts of different voltages but all of > a negative charge (more electrons than protons). > Where is the REFERENCE POINT for voltage measurements ? Please note that voltage is always measured as difference between two pints and in this case it is just a votage in the air ... Just to avoid misunderstanding, but this concept has to be understood. Regards Felix From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 14:52:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA18697; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:49:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:49:36 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709052149.OAA28916@germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: maybe this is of interest? Resent-Message-ID: <"p5URY2.0.2a4.kv74q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/510 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 05:11 AM 9/6/97 +1200, you wrote: >B field? isn't that gauss? Yes, or Tesla. 10000 gauss = 1 Tesla. >Do I have it wrong? >can't you tell the gauss by the ampere turns? >does the induction around a torrid core transformer drop of as the distance or >the inverse square? In a toroid, the field is B=uNI/2PI*r. where 2*PI*r is the mean circumference of the toroid. In this case, if u is large, all the flux will be in the toroid and will be independent of the radius of the turns of wire. My answer before was for a solenoid, which I thought you were asking about :-) >If you have a larger diameter secondary coil around a torrid core transformer >with the same number of turns as a smaller one are both induced with the same >voltage. Yes, see above. > >A larger diameter coil with the same amp-turns >will produce less B field. >Are you sure? Yes for a solenoid. But the area of the field, the cross-sectional area of the coil is larger by r^2, so is the total flux is larger for the larger coil. >Oh and when I said at the center I meant within the small coil and not the exact >center. I only mentioned the center because it is easier to calculate for a solenoid. For a toroid, the field strength within the toroid varies inversely with the circumference. > >Does the flux density (inside an ordinary coil) change e.g... is it weaker in the >center? Yes, it is a local minimum there as a function of radius. It is a maximum as a function of axial position. This is why if you drop a steel ball down a core of a strong (air core) electromagnet, it will hover about the center, axially. It would be exactly in the center with no gravity. It will not stay in the center of the bore, but will stick to the wall somewhere. >Dave Dameron wrote: > >> At 02:35 AM 9/6/97 +1200, you wrote: >> >I recently did an experiment were I had two coils of the same number of >> >turns with the same current going through them (same ampere turns >> >(gauss)) with different diameters >> How close were your diameters? A larger diameter coil with the same amp-turns >> will produce less B field. >> If d=diameter, >> l=length of the solenoid, I= current, N= number turns >> B=uNI/sqrt(d*d+l*l) at center of the solenoid. >> -Dave Hope this helps! -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 15:38:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA11746; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:36:07 -0700 (PDT) From: MFergerson@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970905173702_1320926198@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: E field(non-scalar "REAL")inside charged box? (PLE Resent-Message-ID: <"_NP2v3.0.Rt2.Kb84q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/511 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: J. Berry sent a great picture detailing his concept and asked: >Does this picture Help? >It has two different embodiments, if all were of the same voltage there would be >no E field as measured by a probe placed inside the box. >The walls are metal and insulated into 3 parts of different voltages but all of >a negative charge (more electrons than protons). Yes, they look just like an electron gun (as in vacuum tube) to me. Same situation- different values of the same polarity still yields observed vector (neg. to pos.). As far as particles or probes of any kind can tell, the plate with the fewest electrons looks positive. Clearer? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 15:42:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA30049; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:39:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:39:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3410B31C.198F@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 18:34:20 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: THE INERTIAL TAP- again ;-) References: <199709050446.AAA07555@mail.wincom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Q4QVV.0.LL7.ve84q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/512 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: wood wrote: > I am still looking for a simple experiment to show me that back emf does exist. > Woody Are you kidding? Drop a magnet through a large coil that is open, and then again with the coil shorted. Simple enough. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 15:48:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA31116; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:45:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:45:27 -0700 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator Message-ID: <19970905.184555.8247.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970904183738.006add7c@multinet.net.il> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2,4-11 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 18:44:15 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"PAXS02.0.5c7.5k84q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/513 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I may have a copy of the patent (?), but I'll have to dig it out of my mess of files when i get back monday (if i in-fact have it). On Thu, 04 Sep 1997 18:37:38 +0300 Lev Robert writes: > >Hi Steve,All >Anybody has the detailes necessary to build the project? >I couldn't find any detailes that enables the building. >Robert > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 15:54:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA13851; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3410B578.4BA0@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 18:44:24 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fred Epps CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars References: Conversation <199709040217.TAA06952@mail1.halcyon.com> with last message <340F7ACC.6A1B@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P7wFU1.0.BO3.cp84q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/514 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Fred Epps wrote: > > Hi Bob, all, > > > > >This defines a vector, not a scalar. An electrometer is a scalar > > > > >voltmeter, but a voltmeter with two leads cannot be described as a > > > > >scalar device. > > > > [snip] > > > > Actually I gave this some thought before I wrote it. I'm afraid in > > > > this case you are wrong Bob. Electrical voltage is a scalar. The > > > > electrical field that is the gradient of the voltage, and is measured > > > > in volts/meter is the vector. Voltage itself is a very good electrical > > > > analogy of static pressure. > > > > (It's good thing I don't own a hat ;) > > > > > > > Thanks Robin, I thought I was getting the hang of the vector/scalar > thing > > > at least in terms of standard physics, then when Bob said that voltage > was > > > a vector I was totally thrown, but not sure enough to say anything... > > > > Fred, how can voltage, the "potential difference" between points, which > > by definition has direction we call polarity, be scalar? > > > > A thermometer measures temprature, a scalar value, with a single > > connection to a point, but voltage is 'across' two points, with a clear > > direction. This is a vector. A voltmeter has two electrodes for this > > reason. An electrometer on the other hand, had a single electrode. > > Why? > > OK ,I got it, the trick is the difference between "potential" and > "potential difference". But using my analogy of a sea of waves with the > height of each wave being the magnitude of a scalar, in this case > potential, in order to take a measurement of this height you have to find a > potential differnce between this height and some arbitrary point, say > another wave, or the bottom of the sea. > The potential has no ABSOLUTE magnitude without some potential difference. > The electrometer is connected to ground to measure potential, so what it is > really measuring is potential difference. No, electrometers need not be grounded, think of the gold leaf electroscope, it measures the scalar value by the repulsion of the leaves counteracted by gravity. This is a true scalar measurment, only one test probe needed. Try that with your vector EM only digital volt meter. > > > Qustions for whoever wants to take them: > > > > > > In conventional physics, when a vector and its reciprocal (vector with > same > > > magnitude and opposite direction) are added the result is zero, not a > > > scalar. Is that right? > > > > Yes, as an analogy, two force vectors on a bit of string. We pull with > > equal force at each end, in opposing directions. The string does not > > move, but the force is not zero either. If we pull just hard enough, > > equally from each end, the string snapps. Clearly the opposed forces, > > which summed to net zero, were still fully present in the string. > > Clear enough. So the energy is trapped as a "strain" in ether or space or > matter or what have you... Bingo, you have it! See, its quite simple, after you pull your EM hair out of the way. > BTW this implies to me on a practical level that you could tap centrifugal > force as a source of power by using the strain energy--make a disc out of > PZ material. Maybe not so easy, PZ materials need a change in force, not a static force. Well, do deliver a vector product they do. > > > > > The Whittaker/Bearden theory amounts to saying that there is something > IN > > > that zero. Right? > > > > Right! Ask the string! Note that we pulled at the ends, but the string > > may have broken anywhere along its lenght. Action at a distance > > perhaps? Spookey or not? > > > > > When two scalars add, the result is also a scalar. Correct? > > > > Not complete. But not wrong yet. > > > > Remember that the dV/dT thing? We still have phase. > > > > Destructive and constructive interference will yeild EM or scalar > > products respectively. > > > > > How can two scalars be added to get a vector? > > > > By destructive interference, which yeilds the conventional EM vector > > according to the work of Whittaker. This gets us right back to > > "potential difference" being > > a vector. > > Got to get a copy of those papers! That is if I understand them, seems to > me I looked at them one time and they were wall-to wall math (well that was > along time ago, maybe I'm smarter now :-) They are posted on line, someone just posted on these..... Wall to wall math is exactly right. > > Fred > > BTW, could you post this on the list, I can't send messages to the list > from my old computer for some reason? Thanks... No problem Fred. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 16:03:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA15435; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 08:58:35 +1000 Message-Id: <199709052258.IAA13257@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: High voltage generation. Resent-Message-ID: <"PAzU52.0.xm3.-x84q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/515 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >If this email you ention a marx high voltage generator >could you let me know how this is constructed a brief outline if possible >and how it works >thanks Geoff > There was a five page article entitled "Marx Generator for High Voltage Experiments" (200KV) by E.A. Richley in Electronics & Wireless World a "number" of years ago, maybe 5 or six. They may be able to locate the issue with this info. Was very detailed. The disadvantage of these devices, for some applications, is low discharge rate. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 16:04:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA15604; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3410B7F6.1333@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 18:55:02 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars References: <199708290123.LAA28589@nornet.nor.com.au> <3412d4d8.34524329@mail.eisa.net.au> <3409DCEC.4248@tiac.net> <340AD811.5D8884C8@ihug.co.nz> <3410c206.33222707@mail.eisa.net.au> <340CB965.5116@tiac.net> <340cfbfb.11458563@mail.eisa.net.au> <340F6473 .5E93@tiac.net> <34109f67.27357204@mail.eisa.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m3Gum.0.jp3.Yz84q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/516 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Thu, 04 Sep 1997 18:46:27 -0700, Bob Shannon wrote: > > >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > >> Actually I gave this some thought before I wrote it. I'm afraid in > >> this case you are wrong Bob. Electrical voltage is a scalar. The > >> electrical field that is the gradient of the voltage, and is measured > >> in volts/meter is the vector. Voltage itself is a very good electrical > >> analogy of static pressure. > >> (It's good thing I don't own a hat ;) > > > >Can you expand on this Robin? > > > >Voltage is a potential difference, with magnitude and direction. > >Clearly this cannot be described as a scalar value. > > > >Electrostatic potnetial is an analog of static pressure, voltage is a > >potential difference between two points, clearly a vector by the > >standard definition of the term. > > > And what exactly is the difference between electrostatic potential and > voltage Bob? Electrostatic potential exists as a value at a single point. Voltage is the difference between two points. It has a magnetiude, and a direction. This is clearly not a scalar value, like say a Coulomb. > I suspect that even you, if asked to specify the voltage between a > particular component and "ground", wouldn't specify millions of > different vectors between the component, and millions of different > points on the ground. No, I would describe the magnetiude, and direction of the vector. > IOW direction is of no use in this case, so a scalar value satisfies. What about the polarity? Direction clearly matters. > The difference between two scalars is still a scalar. E.g. the > temperature difference between two objects (say delta T), is still a > temperature and a scalar. Which one was hotter? Which way will heat flow? > I think that generally speaking only spatial > gradients (i.e. dF/dx,y,z where F can be a scalar function), will > result in vectors. > So e.g. a *rate of change* in temperature with *distance* will be a > vector. So the vector only appears when we divide the delta T by a > delta x to create dT/dx. Because of the introduction of the dx, we > have in fact introduced a spatial quantity, and with it, automatically > a direction. You have missed the point that voltage has direction and magnetiude, so it cannot be described as a scalar value. This happens long before we get into rate of change. > (In this case I have used "rate" as related to spatial change rather > than temporal change). > > Note: > Whether or not rates of change in time should be considered vectors, > probably depends on the specific calculations being done. If time is > either considered to be variable, or "movement" backward in time can > come into the picture, then such rates may well best be treated as > vectors in a 4 dimensional space time. This was my primary reason for > not mentioning electrical current in my previous list of scalars. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk Get a hat! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 16:07:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA01668; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:04:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:04:08 -0700 Message-ID: <3410B8C7.4D93@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 18:58:31 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 References: <340F124D.43FF@motown.lmco.com> <340EF079.6883FF1E@microtronics.com.au> <340F6E87.405@tiac.net> <9709050837.ZM27597@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cmOYE3.0.yP.d_84q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/517 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John E. Steck wrote: > > Forgive the phrase, but maybe sucessful and unsucessful SMOT'ers should > > swap balls? > > I don't think that will help. If how you hold the hammer affects how you hit > the nail, switching hammers isn't going to help much. Are you sure its not the nails? Have you proven this? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 18:04:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA00727; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BCBA68.1221C760@que2-p11.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 01:56:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBA68.12329040" Resent-Message-ID: <"4U-qs3.0.BB.JkA4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/518 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA68.12329040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Bob and everyone, Bob Shannon wrote: >Fred Epps wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Bob, all, > =20 >> OK ,I got it, the trick is the difference between "potential" and >> "potential difference". But using my analogy of a sea of waves with = the >> height of each wave being the magnitude of a scalar, in this case >> potential, in order to take a measurement of this height you have to = find a >> potential differnce between this height and some arbitrary point, say >> another wave, or the bottom of the sea. >> The potential has no ABSOLUTE magnitude without some potential = difference. >> The electrometer is connected to ground to measure potential, so what = it is >> really measuring is potential difference. Not really. The potential HAS an absolute magnitude, which is expressed = in Volt. It exists, e.g., in the vicinity of a charge and, in this case, its = absolute value would be V=3DQ/(4*pi*e*r) where V is the potential at the point, Q is the charge = at distance r from the point, and all the rest are constants. An electrometer has, of course, nothing to do with this, since it is a = charge sensor, and not a potential sensor. Potential difference is nothing but the difference in the electric = scalar potential values between two points in space. It is also measured in Volt. > >No, electrometers need not be grounded, think of the gold leaf >electroscope, it measures the scalar value by the repulsion of the >leaves counteracted by gravity. > >This is a true scalar measurment, only one test probe needed. Try that >with your vector EM only digital volt meter. > All the best, Ant=F3nio Vilela ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA68.12329040 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhQBAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAfAAAAUkU6 IGJsYXRhbnRseSBiYWJibGluZyBzY2FsYXJzABYLAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcJAAYAAQA4AAwABgAuAQEg gAMADgAAAM0HCQAGAAEAHgAtAAYANQEBCYABACEAAAA2RURCNDk5MTU0MjZEMTExQkJEQjQ0NDU1 MzU0MDAwMADsBgEDkAYAsAYAABQAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMA NgAAAAAAQAA5AKApnQ1ourwBHgBwAAEAAAAfAAAAUkU6IGJsYXRhbnRseSBiYWJibGluZyBzY2Fs YXJzAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvLpoDZ2RSdtvJlQR0bvbREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQ AAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAFwAAAHZpbGVsYUBtYWlsLnRlbGVwYWMucHQAAAMABhCfpf0xAwAHEOgEAAAe AAgQAQAAAGUAAABIRUxMT0JPQkFOREVWRVJZT05FLEJPQlNIQU5OT05XUk9URTpGUkVERVBQU1dS T1RFOkhJQk9CLEFMTCw8U05JUE9LLElHT1RJVCxUSEVUUklDS0lTVEhFRElGRkVSRU5DRUJFAAAA AAIBCRABAAAAHAUAABgFAADzCwAATFpGdcOETwL/AAoBDwIVAqQD5AXrAoMAUBMDVAIAY2gKwHNl dO4yBgAGwwKDMgPGBxMCg0YzA8UCAHBycRIicyh0ZW0CgzQTD2Y1+xQ8E4V9CoAIzwnZAoAKgdMN sQtgbmcB0DcN8AsDIGxpMTQ0AtFpLT8bwwzQG8MLVRbyAdAgSARlbBjAIEJvYiChAHBkIGV2BJB5 AiCMZSwKhwtoMTYgCouXHJ8doh5CUxHAbm4CIOwgdwNgFUA6CoUKjx1Ivj4LRhXCDAEUwCOxYwVA wkYZMSBFcHAEICOb9yUvJj8nQz4gqCkvKj8rQ/RIaR4yLB5wHgAfTiyPnya8L18dkx9dJq08cwMA PHA+JGUyLzBfKq1PSyAgLEkgZyOwIGlidC7wdGhlOiAFEGOuazngBCA6MmQGkGYEkFUJ8GM6UGIS AHcJ4SDcInAjsQIwBzEiHnI2X083byq8PHg7OSIuNjBCGnUFQHUAkBrgIG15kx5xB0BvZ0Kgb2Ye cM4gEfBDcENBd2Ee0CgRfTnwaDoiPW8+fyq8OkBp/GdoBUBDQUOgEbBD8zvhl0JSOjIAwGcDAHR1 DbD9QzVjB0AKwC7wC4A6ITrRv0rAEfAkZUZHRd8mvCA8h79LEwWwBIE6IB4gAZBrOlD/Q3AHgEvA CHAVUDyxQzJLY/tH5R8AdUfQSOJQMRwQHpH+YUTvTR8qvEB+O7pRyh6CpnMDcFCRcmI58HIKwI9C oDyAC4A6AXNheVOv/1S/KrwAcCOwOkAFwEQCLvD/BbE6MgbgAkADcFGEOlBDke4uWv9cDyq8VDpB QHgRwAcEICNQE3BCU09MVfxURUm5RGIIYAVAWWNAf/87sWBfYW9ifzpQHfAnUQNh/xIAUAFLggIg HyAnYCexUDH/CcAIYB6RUDFQ1U7qWWAjgP8RwDnSOsFoD2kfKrwZMC8Rf0KgUNRCUjrRZr9nzzMO Ts85wXK0QcBjbEhBBfADkf8BoFlgCkAVQEm4LvBvEDqQ80SQOtFleBTAB5AR8B6g1UsxVgbwdHU2 SQVAevCZBAB0cy7wdSBnLksVfTpQdjqQC4A58EMlEbJnv1CRHpBLHEsRfPB5GHYHQHcKUCOACGBs HqA78CRlVgA9US8oNCpwaeAqZSpyKW8BO4F7sN86xnP4bzGERFpzUTrGfub/BUA7QBUwAHA7wQXA A1KFSf8kZR6CLxE6I3shWQFuAWxB74dSfPB1NiRlQQOga0tkQf9esUNQBaAIcIBCXgJJQx4g/mRu 8UR0BABaoQuAO8FvY/9+uBHwAIAFsIjKXgFDYXP4e5D0iy1QdA+P0mRijjRi/0IBOw19lWtEOpBK pXPpgVO/BCBX54GwWkQEIEsxcySQ93UYfIGQMmxu4VDVe39L/v8xT3VvcO8m+HcQfRFrWWRh/wng kfQ78G0FCYA6EguAOrDPX7U5sIHha1BhZqBvoX/nJtprRQTwb3CAU1DGOuTbmJWBVGJCoInEcIHQ AJD/I2FftKcvqD8m2qbhRCKNkf8CMASQANBsoqyxCcBEEH5R/3U/ry+fn7M/tE8nFmNgOtF/kDM6 cIGBmJVQ1FFCXrFu/3LxHxE6IIoSJxGk8aRiCYD9QcFUWiE6MG8wtd+27yban0RjUoGsMSdRBbFF TbrE/TtAZznwmXJ70VDBa9Gy77++L7UPCs4S8jNvHWZBiZWPO/AVMB9Gi6d0XCcUEHsDAB4gVgMQ HfBTlhhRAAHMIAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwYIF2f2S6vAFAAAgwYIF2f2S6vAEeAD0AAQAA AAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAApTY= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA68.12329040-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 18:13:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA23427; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:10:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:10:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3410A930.1120736F@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 12:52:00 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Does any one find this of intrest? References: <01BCBA2A.F7388340@que2-p7.telepac.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xMikX3.0.yj5.zrA4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/519 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The apparent IxV is 2000 watts and the true is 25 watts, and I have measured it. apparent ps1 I x ps2 V =2000 watts true ps1 VxI + ps2 VxI =25 watts António Vilela wrote: > John Berry wrote: > >It would be 25 watts;power source 1 plus power source 2 = true wattage > >ps1 .5v x 10I = 5watts > >ps2 200v x .1I = 20 watts > >ps1 + ps2 = true wattage 25 watts > > That would seem to be the maximum electrical power available to you but then again, why don't you measure your real V and I, multiply them and then report back to us? > > I bet it will be less than that. > > António Vilela > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 18:19:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA24398; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:16:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:16:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3410AA90.A86D85EF@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 12:57:53 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: what do you think about my ZFS? References: <01BCBA31.05E6B1E0@que3-p12.telepac.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YVuaT1.0.7z5.PxA4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/520 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I put it on the scope and on a battery powered amp meter and an battery powered volt meter, I sadly did not workout which direction the DC pulse was, I may repeat the setup soon and find more out. António Vilela wrote: > John Berry wrote: > >I did an experiment recently in which I found that if you put a half > >wave rectified AC in to the primary you will not only heat up your > >transformer a bit (and full wave rectified will totally cook it), you > >will get an output that is AC but has a DC component! > >The DC part is small but it is real and not toooo weak. > > > >Well Before this experiment I had an idea of a setup of lots of > >transformers with the secondary in series and an overall DC induction > >with the primaries at different parts of the wave (half wave rectified > >AC) so that there would be just a smooth DC current in the secondary > >that would not back induce the primaries, I called it ZFS for Zero > >Fluctuation Secondary, without any fluctuation you would not have any > >back EMF. > > Very interesting John, > > Did you use a high impedance (scope or voltmeter) instrument to measure the voltage? > Can you send us some more data? > Voltages in the primary, secondary, DC component? How does the DC component varies placing a 1K resistor across the secondary terminals? > > Thanks for your info. > > António Vilela > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 18:34:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA04421; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3410ADD3.31286930@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 13:11:47 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: maybe this is of interest? References: <199709052149.OAA28916@germany.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"B2WQN3.0.y41.f9B4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/521 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Thankyou!, but I was talking about a loop of wire, the torrid was the shape of the iron core on which the wire was wound. Dave Dameron wrote: > At 05:11 AM 9/6/97 +1200, you wrote: > >B field? isn't that gauss? > Yes, or Tesla. 10000 gauss = 1 Tesla. > > >Do I have it wrong? > >can't you tell the gauss by the ampere turns? > >does the induction around a torrid core transformer drop of as the distance or > >the inverse square? > > In a toroid, the field is B=uNI/2PI*r. where 2*PI*r is the mean circumference > of the toroid. In this case, if u is large, all the flux will be in the toroid > and will be independent of the radius of the turns of wire. My answer before > was for a solenoid, which I thought you were asking about :-) > >If you have a larger diameter secondary coil around a torrid core transformer > >with the same number of turns as a smaller one are both induced with the same > >voltage. > Yes, see above. > > > >A larger diameter coil with the same amp-turns > >will produce less B field. > >Are you sure? > Yes for a solenoid. But the area of the field, the cross-sectional area of the > coil is larger by r^2, so is the total flux is larger for the larger coil. > > >Oh and when I said at the center I meant within the small coil and not the > exact > >center. > > I only mentioned the center because it is easier to calculate for a > solenoid. For a toroid, the field strength within the toroid varies > inversely with the circumference. > > > >Does the flux density (inside an ordinary coil) change e.g... is it weaker > in the > >center? Yes, it is a local minimum there as a function of radius. It is a > maximum as a function of axial position. This is why if you drop a steel ball > down a core of a strong (air core) electromagnet, it will hover about the > center, axially. It would be exactly in the center with no gravity. It will > not stay in the center of the bore, but will stick to the wall somewhere. > > >Dave Dameron wrote: > > > >> At 02:35 AM 9/6/97 +1200, you wrote: > >> >I recently did an experiment were I had two coils of the same number of > >> >turns with the same current going through them (same ampere turns > >> >(gauss)) with different diameters > >> How close were your diameters? A larger diameter coil with the same amp-turns > >> will produce less B field. > >> If d=diameter, > >> l=length of the solenoid, I= current, N= number turns > >> B=uNI/sqrt(d*d+l*l) at center of the solenoid. > >> -Dave > > Hope this helps! > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 18:37:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA26930; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:34:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:34:44 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCBA6C.D9199CE0@que2-p11.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:30:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBA6C.D9213E00" Resent-Message-ID: <"ijbL9.0.ba6.pCB4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/522 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA6C.D9213E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello everyone, Here we are, once again... Bob Shannon wrote: >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >>=20 >> On Thu, 04 Sep 1997 18:46:27 -0700, Bob Shannon wrote: >>=20 >> >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >> >> Actually I gave this some thought before I wrote it. I'm afraid in >> >> this case you are wrong Bob. Electrical voltage is a scalar. The >> >> electrical field that is the gradient of the voltage, and is = measured >> >> in volts/meter is the vector. Voltage itself is a very good = electrical >> >> analogy of static pressure. >> >> (It's good thing I don't own a hat ;) >> > >> >Can you expand on this Robin? >> > >> >Voltage is a potential difference, with magnitude and direction. >> >Clearly this cannot be described as a scalar value. >> > >> >Electrostatic potnetial is an analog of static pressure, voltage is = a >> >potential difference between two points, clearly a vector by the >> >standard definition of the term. >> > >> And what exactly is the difference between electrostatic potential = and >> voltage Bob? > >Electrostatic potential exists as a value at a single point. Right. >Voltage is the difference between two points. =20 Not only. If by voltage you mean something measured in Volt, then = voltage would refer to the electrostatic (or dynamic, for that matter) potential = at a point. But assuming you are referring to "that" voltage... >It has a magnetiude, and a direction. This is clearly not a scalar >value, like say a Coulomb. OK, now. This is where we really disagree. The potential difference = between two points is a scalar measure. You say 12 V not 12 V in this or that direction. Please note that it is you that supply the points to this measurement (and hence the vector part of the thing). >> I suspect that even you, if asked to specify the voltage between a >> particular component and "ground", wouldn't specify millions of >> different vectors between the component, and millions of different >> points on the ground. > >No, I would describe the magnetiude, and direction of the vector. I'm sure that you never did that. No one does. >> IOW direction is of no use in this case, so a scalar value satisfies. > >What about the polarity? Direction clearly matters. > >> The difference between two scalars is still a scalar. E.g. the >> temperature difference between two objects (say delta T), is still a >> temperature and a scalar. > >Which one was hotter? Which way will heat flow? I'm sure the sign of the difference will tell us that. If it=B4s positive the first point will be hotter. If it's negative it = will be the opposite, I hope. >> I think that generally speaking only spatial >> gradients (i.e. dF/dx,y,z where F can be a scalar function), will >> result in vectors. >> So e.g. a *rate of change* in temperature with *distance* will be a >> vector. So the vector only appears when we divide the delta T by a >> delta x to create dT/dx. Because of the introduction of the dx, we >> have in fact introduced a spatial quantity, and with it, = automatically >> a direction. > >You have missed the point that voltage has direction and magnetiude, so >it cannot be described as a scalar value. This happens long before we = get >into rate of change. Sorry about this, Bob. We can all see the magnitude of the thing, but I = can see no use for a direction if I know the points in the first place.=20 Anyway, the electrical field at either of these points, which is a = vector quantity, has nothing=20 to do with their potential difference. Why, you can even have to points = in space, at different potentials, with no electrical field around them. > >> (In this case I have used "rate" as related to spatial change rather >> than temporal change). >>=20 >> Note: >> Whether or not rates of change in time should be considered vectors, >> probably depends on the specific calculations being done. If time is >> either considered to be variable, or "movement" backward in time can >> come into the picture, then such rates may well best be treated as >> vectors in a 4 dimensional space time. This was my primary reason for >> not mentioning electrical current in my previous list of scalars. >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Robin van Spaandonk > >Get a hat! 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Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BCBA6E.43BD9C80@que2-p11.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Does any one find this of intrest? Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 02:40:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBA6E.43BD9C80" Resent-Message-ID: <"jGosQ1.0.ab1.XNB4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/523 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA6E.43BD9C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John Berry wrote: >The apparent IxV is 2000 watts and the true is 25 watts, and I have = measured it. >apparent ps1 I x ps2 V =3D2000 watts >true ps1 VxI + ps2 VxI =3D25 watts > >Ant=F3nio Vilela wrote: > >> John Berry wrote: >> >It would be 25 watts;power source 1 plus power source 2 =3D true = wattage >> >ps1 .5v x 10I =3D 5watts >> >ps2 200v x .1I =3D 20 watts >> >ps1 + ps2 =3D true wattage 25 watts >> >> That would seem to be the maximum electrical power available to you = but then again, why don't you measure your real V and I, >multiply them = and then report back to us? >> >> I bet it will be less than that. >> >> Ant=F3nio Vilela Hello John, What you are saying is that if you have a car and your neighbour has = another one, by standing in between the houses you can fool passing = people into thinking that you have two cars. Hope no one ever borrow = your two cars. Your neighbour wouldn't like it. Anyway, I was asking for you to make the measurement because I am almost = certain that if you connect both the batteries, and the current meter, = and the voltmeter, one of the batteries won=B4t be supplying any power. Still, haven't thought much about it. Best regards. Ant=F3nio Vilela P.S. Did my pictures arrive well to your mailbox yesterday? ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA6E.43BD9C80 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IigCAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAnAAAAUkU6 IERvZXMgYW55IG9uZSBmaW5kIHRoaXMgb2YgaW50cmVzdD8APA0BBYADAA4AAADNBwkABgACACgA JQAGADgBASCAAwAOAAAAzQcJAAYAAgAgACYABgAxAQEJgAEAIQAAADc2REI0OTkxNTQyNkQxMTFC QkRCNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAN4GAQOQBgAYBgAAFAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMA LgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAAKTnQW66vAEeAHAAAQAAACcAAABSRTogRG9lcyBhbnkgb25lIGZp bmQgdGhpcyBvZiBpbnRyZXN0PwAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAby6bkHgkUnbdyZUEdG720RFU1QAAAAA HgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABcAAAB2aWxlbGFAbWFpbC50ZWxlcGFjLnB0AAAD AAYQOsbdRAMABxCtAwAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASk9ITkJFUlJZV1JPVEU6VEhFQVBQQVJFTlRJWFZJ UzIwMDBXQVRUU0FORFRIRVRSVUVJUzI1V0FUVFMsQU5ESUhBVkVNRUFTVVJFRElUQVBQQVJFTlRQ UzFJWFBTMlY9MjAwMAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAHoEAAB2BAAAiwkAAExaRnWI64z1/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF 6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzIDxgcTAoPGMwPFAgBwcnESIBOI+jQTDX0KgAjPCdkC gAqB0w2xC2BuZwHQNw3wCwMgbGkxNDQC0WktPxojDNAaIwtVFCIB0CBKFG9oA6BCBJByeSBidwNg dGU6CocLaDF2NgqgHQJjBUAKjxuoPg8LRhWyDAEetlRoZSAcYXAfYQnwBUBJeFa6IAQAIAHQI7Ac 4GECQCMEIABwZCB0InF0cisKUCNjNSPkLCRDSSDNEcB2IoAHgGFzCHAJgPkjYHQuHV0gfyGMIqcq wHZwHnAmIXgq4RIgI1A9PyOoJ28ofyGqJNMq8lZ4/SYwKytkMAEr0CVlLI8tny8hqjFvMn8hqkEC MFwn2xQQAwBvK6ADEGULYBzv3zTvNf80LzmfIYw+HD84n1M8jz2dPkkFQHcIYGwNJHBiIoAlVjtw b3fpBJAgcwhhYyKAKxALUN51BCAq4EQKEiA9JMQj8nhhZ2U/n0CvQb0q8iBILjV2K0ExMDCxIP41 MR9H30jvSfMSICOSSpL9SmAxSvIcEUtPTF9Nb0n1/zA0Ri0lR1BfUW89q1WPVp+fPawiYCQAQsUR 8GVtJICvN7BDMSSSAMB4B3B1XFD3OAAe8QUQYwdARTUmYAtwbwtgAmAksTeweQhgQyB1Py9BInAD oEbgC3El0Hdo9T8QZAIgJwVAX3ImpV9i/wXAF5BeESNQJfMl0FjvWf/THuNdUGx0BSBsPxAkkf9c UCRVA6AXkEPwACBDIADQ9mtcYkUAP1h/Y+9Xr2iP/2mfPegmMEMwBUAnMD8gAxD/AyBDMTfwBBEk kAORb5EnT/9sL2pPcF9xbz3KNy8fPwuR7xLyHBFzLxvzSDgAFyA+c/YsdzV3NVdbgl9yItFEQHRh eQuAZyNib+IjYGZ/X2MmUzggXgBegSRhYhNu8GVpZ2gG4GIxEcAkMq8/UCJwBcACIGUl0GI/EP5z AZAkYHzTA6BuUUQQYBH9JJJoCGAR8AQgX3JeAAOgPwIQBvAq4CbAAJB84XBlfm8LUCUBAjA3sCSQ C4BrP3zSfUN9x4IAN7B+cXMu/3owhIAigIAwgJJdgCZwBcDfBuA+8EQAYgSGmFl/DELTe2ESGgBr JQFwF3c1diB5vSPweSXQJjAj8CQxc4Vj/wIQBcBfclxxAMCLQVzTJrS/B4AjAUMwXgCCwSYhYWZx /mwEYIEgfmAEkAGQgbF9Sv0FoG5/QB8BBuAkkCSDZ5DfAkAGcQeQJdQkkmMIcCLj1weAk5GT+HYG 8HSVFYeyHm99oJMrQsELkCdiNPuPskRAdSKwZhB80gBwPxD7Q/OLnVNl4G7gJdAmUmES/ySQCGB/ cGWSEbAikH+RbnL/i50+0JDhF5BgUAsghwCMFyN2T3saUC5ThxBEae0kcG2ZgV3wdCbhJDE+8P5p JnFEEG7hX0QFwADAAxDbBuArUHmeIQSQZHywaDYFFrEApaAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcw oEFVJG26vAFAAAgwoEFVJG26vAEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAATOg= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBA6E.43BD9C80-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 18:51:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA06707; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:48:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:48:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3410B183.6A1A2CD5@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 13:27:32 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars References: <199708290123.LAA28589@nornet.nor.com.au> <3412d4d8.34524329@mail.eisa.net.au> <3409DCEC.4248@tiac.net> <340AD811.5D8884C8@ihug.co.nz> <3410c206.33222707@mail.eisa.net.au> <340CB965.5116@tiac.net> <340cfbfb.11458563@mail.eisa.net.au> <340F6473 .5E93@tiac.net> <34109f67.27357204@mail.eisa.net.au> <3410B7F6.1333@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"i9D7N2.0.ee1.WPB4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/524 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Rather than have discussions of what scalar is, why don't we call scalar something that can not have a vector! Heat can have a vector between two points, it can have values other than just temperature, so why don't we all agree to use the word scalar in a case that can have only one value, of course this can only be done if the thing can not have a different value between two points so it must be omnipresent and instantaneous. No other way can it be a true scalar. Bob Shannon wrote: > Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > > > On Thu, 04 Sep 1997 18:46:27 -0700, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > > >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > >> Actually I gave this some thought before I wrote it. I'm afraid in > > >> this case you are wrong Bob. Electrical voltage is a scalar. The > > >> electrical field that is the gradient of the voltage, and is measured > > >> in volts/meter is the vector. Voltage itself is a very good electrical > > >> analogy of static pressure. > > >> (It's good thing I don't own a hat ;) > > > > > >Can you expand on this Robin? > > > > > >Voltage is a potential difference, with magnitude and direction. > > >Clearly this cannot be described as a scalar value. > > > > > >Electrostatic potnetial is an analog of static pressure, voltage is a > > >potential difference between two points, clearly a vector by the > > >standard definition of the term. > > > > > And what exactly is the difference between electrostatic potential and > > voltage Bob? > > Electrostatic potential exists as a value at a single point. > > Voltage is the difference between two points. > > It has a magnetiude, and a direction. This is clearly not a scalar > value, like say a Coulomb. > > > I suspect that even you, if asked to specify the voltage between a > > particular component and "ground", wouldn't specify millions of > > different vectors between the component, and millions of different > > points on the ground. > > No, I would describe the magnetiude, and direction of the vector. > > > IOW direction is of no use in this case, so a scalar value satisfies. > > What about the polarity? Direction clearly matters. > > > The difference between two scalars is still a scalar. E.g. the > > temperature difference between two objects (say delta T), is still a > > temperature and a scalar. > > Which one was hotter? Which way will heat flow? > > > I think that generally speaking only spatial > > gradients (i.e. dF/dx,y,z where F can be a scalar function), will > > result in vectors. > > So e.g. a *rate of change* in temperature with *distance* will be a > > vector. So the vector only appears when we divide the delta T by a > > delta x to create dT/dx. Because of the introduction of the dx, we > > have in fact introduced a spatial quantity, and with it, automatically > > a direction. > > You have missed the point that voltage has direction and magnetiude, so > it > cannot be described as a scalar value. This happens long before we get > into > rate of change. > > > (In this case I have used "rate" as related to spatial change rather > > than temporal change). > > > > Note: > > Whether or not rates of change in time should be considered vectors, > > probably depends on the specific calculations being done. If time is > > either considered to be variable, or "movement" backward in time can > > come into the picture, then such rates may well best be treated as > > vectors in a 4 dimensional space time. This was my primary reason for > > not mentioning electrical current in my previous list of scalars. > > > > Regards, > > > > Robin van Spaandonk > > Get a hat! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 18:52:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA07124; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 18:50:16 -0700 (PDT) From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Whittaker On Web X-Newsgroups: list.freenrg1 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 21:44:01 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Lines: 22 Resent-Message-ID: <"LkM0T.0.Bl1.KRB4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/525 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In article , you wrote: >There was some discussion here a bit a go about putting the >E. T. Whittaker papers on the web. Didn't see that they ended >up any place, but I might have messed the message. > >So...with A Little Help From My Friends...I've got one of the >obscure original TROFF files of Jon Noring converted to a >modern PDF file. >I'll see if I can get the other Whittaker paper up as soon >as I figure out how... The "On the partial differential equations of mathematical physics" paper is up now at http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock/1903.htm -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 19:13:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA32767; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:07:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:07:42 -0700 Message-ID: <34109A14.6F2C@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 11:47:32 +1200 From: Robbie Rowntree Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator References: <3.0.1.32.19970904183738.006add7c@multinet.net.il> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IqllW3.0.u_7.khB4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/526 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: try Browns Gas book 1 @ 2 by George Wiseman from International Tesla Society $10 each http://www.tesla.org/ not quite Puharichs method Robbie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 19:24:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA01509; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:20:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:20:08 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 22:19:35 -0400 (EDT) From: woods@most.weird.com (Greg A. Woods) To: bpaddock@csonline.net Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Whittaker On Web Newsgroups: list.freenrg1 In-Reply-To: Bob Paddock's message of "Fri, September 5, 1997 16:35:47 -0400" regarding "Whittaker On Web" id References: Reply-To: woods@weird.com (Greg A. Woods) X-Mailer: ViewMail (vm) Version 5.96 (beta) with GNU Emacs 19.34.1 (m68k.68881-sun-sunos4.1.1, X toolkit) of Thu Sep 12 1996 on most Organization: Planix, Inc.; Toronto, Ontario; Canada Resent-Message-ID: <"ezm-f.0.UN.MtB4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/527 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: [ On Fri, September 5, 1997 at 16:35:47 (-0400), Bob Paddock wrote: ] > Subject: Whittaker On Web > > So...with A Little Help From My Friends...I've got one of the > obscure original TROFF files of Jon Noring converted to a > modern PDF file. It would be absolutely totally wonderful if you could add a link to the original and much easier to handle troff source file too. (Those of us who use unix and unix-like systems will have troff or groff available and often be able to view the formatted result in a form much better suited to our output device than we can with proprietary PDF files.) -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 443-1734 VE3TCP Planix, Inc. ; Secrets of the Weird From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 21:59:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA29723; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 21:56:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 21:56:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 17:05:07 +1000 Message-Id: <199709060705.RAA24733@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator Resent-Message-ID: <"v9ONs.0.JG7._9E4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/528 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 06:44 PM 9/5/97 EDT, you wrote: > >I may have a copy of the patent (?), but I'll have to dig it out of my >mess of files when i get back monday (if i in-fact have it). >On Thu, 04 Sep 1997 18:37:38 +0300 Lev Robert >writes: >> >>Hi Steve,All >>Anybody has the detailes necessary to build the project? >>I couldn't find any detailes that enables the building. >>Robert >> >>wouldn't a copy myself Geoff Egel Solaris http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel >http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 22:44:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA02223; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 22:42:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 22:42:39 -0700 Message-ID: <3410E909.3BFAC9F1@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 17:24:26 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Does any one find this of intrest? References: <01BCBA6E.43BD9C80@que2-p11.telepac.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8ApSe2.0.PY.BrE4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/529 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: no both batteries are supplying full power, but that is only 25 watts and not 2000 watts that it appears, It would be able to fool a few experts. António Vilela wrote: > John Berry wrote: > > >The apparent IxV is 2000 watts and the true is 25 watts, and I have measured it. > >apparent ps1 I x ps2 V =2000 watts > >true ps1 VxI + ps2 VxI =25 watts > > > >António Vilela wrote: > > > >> John Berry wrote: > >> >It would be 25 watts;power source 1 plus power source 2 = true wattage > >> >ps1 .5v x 10I = 5watts > >> >ps2 200v x .1I = 20 watts > >> >ps1 + ps2 = true wattage 25 watts > >> > >> That would seem to be the maximum electrical power available to you but then again, why don't you measure your real V and I, >multiply them and then report back to us? > >> > >> I bet it will be less than that. > >> > >> António Vilela > > Hello John, > > What you are saying is that if you have a car and your neighbour has another one, by standing in between the houses you can fool passing people into thinking that you have two cars. Hope no one ever borrow your two cars. Your neighbour wouldn't like it. > > Anyway, I was asking for you to make the measurement because I am almost certain that if you connect both the batteries, and the current meter, and the voltmeter, one of the batteries won´t be supplying any power. > > Still, haven't thought much about it. > > Best regards. > António Vilela > > P.S. Did my pictures arrive well to your mailbox yesterday? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 5 23:15:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA07543; Fri, 5 Sep 1997 23:13:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 23:13:53 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 23:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709060613.XAA29410@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq@blue.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: Re: Does any one find this of intrest? Resent-Message-ID: <"MZK3f3.0.mr1.VIF4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/530 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John Berry wrote: >no both batteries are supplying full power, >but that is only 25 watts and not 2000 watts >that it appears, It would be able to fool a few experts. John, I'm having trouble figuring out what your point is. Why do you want to "fool a few experts"? Dan Quickert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 04:51:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id EAA21112; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 04:49:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 04:49:26 -0700 (PDT) From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Whittaker On Web X-Newsgroups: list.freenrg1 Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 07:44:39 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Lines: 24 Resent-Message-ID: <"SvoQY2.0.n95.4DK4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/531 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >> So...with A Little Help From My Friends...I've got one of the >> obscure original TROFF files of Jon Noring converted to a >> modern PDF file. > >It would be absolutely totally wonderful if you could add a link to the >original and much easier to handle troff source file too. > >(Those of us who use unix and unix-like systems will have troff or groff >available and often be able to view the formatted result in a form much >better suited to our output device than we can with proprietary PDF files.) I like the UNIX-like stuff my self. The original site went away years ago, this was a time before the WEB... I'm limited in space on my web site so I don't think they'll fit, if some one else wants to post them, I'll be happy to e-mail them to them. Will also e-mail to any one that asks. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 05:01:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA04413; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 05:00:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 05:00:06 -0700 Message-ID: <3411416D.41ACF0E2@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 23:41:33 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Does any one find this of intrest? References: <199709060613.XAA29410@franc.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ttTv6.0.n41.5NK4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/532 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: It does not have anything to do with fooling experts but that experts could be fooled and that we should be careful when making measurements because it could be a false reading. It is possible that people could have been fooled by this "fools current" and thought that they had an over unity device and they did not. It is also to show the nature of electricity and the limited truth of ohm's law. Dan Quickert wrote: > John Berry wrote: > >no both batteries are supplying full power, > >but that is only 25 watts and not 2000 watts > >that it appears, It would be able to fool a few experts. > > John, I'm having trouble figuring out what your point is. Why do you want to > "fool a few experts"? > > Dan Quickert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 05:31:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA24853; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 05:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 05:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BCBAD1.714045A0@art.xs4all.nl> From: Pete Art To: "'Bob Shannon'" Cc: "'Free Energy List'" Subject: RE: New game, Scalar detection and generation Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 14:30:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3jGNK2.0.E46.ToK4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/533 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Finally found some time to reply........ :) >>Pete Art wrote: >> Before I start experimenting a few questions: >> If I send a fast pulse through or modulate a bifilair coil arrangement >> will the amplitude of the detected signal depent on the physical(3d) >> distance between the 'transmitter' and detector? Bob wrote: >Amplitude appears to effect the degree of coupling between the scalar >product and other objects, including detectors. So if, the amplitude of the detected signal rises which results in the lowering(?) of the coupling between the generated scalar and the detector-material, will the amplitude then not stabalize(balanced situation) at a point? Could you please explain this coupling effect? >Scalars do not follow the inverse square law that is valid for spherical >wave front emitters such as EM dipoles. Will the strength/magnitude of the generated scalar not change e.g. be absorbed and/or interfere with scalars which occupy another piece of space/time and result in that the detected amplitude is a function of the 'distance' in space/time from the scalar source and the detector? >Its not a matter of a time delay. The signals detected after you >artificially generate large pulses may be observed to have very >different timings and patterns. >This suggests that they are from another source, origin unknown. (thats >my story, and I'm 'schtickin' to it.) Reflections from the end of the universe? Phase conjugation at the great wall? A mirror in the 10th dimension? :) >Just shield two bifilars with foil, no need for a bias. Ground the foil, >or used a good Faraday cage for each. Pump the two bifilars, and place >a conventional coil between them. Note any signals produced in the >conventional coil. >Now pump either bifilar alone, and note no signal is produced in the >conventional coil. >This suggests that only the interference between the scalar products >(Faraday cages, etc.) is responsible for the signals observed in the >conventional coil. We have a theory that this is due to changing the dielectric 'constant' of free space and the permeability of free space. Example: Pumping electrons(Top view setup) When one bifilair is in the 'high state' and the other is in the 'low state' than space/time structure is A-symetrically changed (viewed from the normal coil), due to the changing in the local permeability, which will result in the electrons in the normal coil(between the 2 bifilairs) 'fall to'/ 'like to be in' that region which has a 'lower state' resulting in a DC current. This pumping effect should be greater if a permanent magnet is put inside the normal coil(forcing them up/downwards). It is like putting a carrot on a stick in front of a donkey holding the stick. ;) Any comments?????? A big smile from Pete who likes to know more................ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 06:09:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id GAA27587; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 06:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 06:07:37 -0700 (PDT) From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Whittaker On Web X-Newsgroups: list.freenrg1 Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 08:58:56 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Lines: 12 Resent-Message-ID: <"JcOiT1.0.xk6.MML4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/534 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >> So...with A Little Help From My Friends...I've got one of the >> obscure original TROFF files of Jon Noring converted to a >> modern PDF file. > >It would be absolutely totally wonderful if you could add a link to the >original and much easier to handle troff source file too. With a little bit of web searching I found them on line at Frank Lofaro's site, I've updated my page to point to them. See http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock/1903.htm and See http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock/1904.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 07:49:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA22684; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 07:47:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 07:47:28 -0700 Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 09:46:01 -0500 (CDT) From: John Fields Subject: Re: Vacuum Tube To: Reed Huish cc: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" In-Reply-To: <01BCB8AB.76D32A00.reed@zenergy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"qhCJR1.0.GY5.-pM4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/535 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Reed Huish wrote: > I am looking for a vacuum tube for use as a high-voltage > switch, that will handle high voltage (5+ kvolts), > high speed switching (5+ khz) and 15+ amps. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. The tube > will be used in a solid-state f/e project. > > Thanks, > > - Reed -------- Could you be a little more specific about the switching characteristics you require? That is, pulse width and duty cycle as well as rise and fall time. John Fields ----------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 10:32:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA11653; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:30:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:30:43 -0700 Message-ID: <341192C2.EE412499@technologist.com> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 13:28:34 -0400 From: Yor-El Israel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: unsubcribe X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <970829204425_-932523099@emout03.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"W6vfo.0.-r2.2DP4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/536 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jiyani@aol.com wrote: > Really like the input but there is just too much to keep up with in my > > incoming box. If you find out how to unsubcribe, please tell me how Thank you. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 11:18:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA22857; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:15:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Jiyani@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 14:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970906141303_184368670@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: unsubcribe, how to Resent-Message-ID: <"0IjgG.0.ua5.ZsP4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/537 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Although I have not yet done so, I was informed that this is the way to accomplish an unsubscribe. I decided it is better to let the info roll on and delete without mercy, thus giving myself the option to check on new developments occaisionally. Send a blank message to: freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com Put the word: UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 12:07:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA26385; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 12:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 12:01:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <341192C2.EE412499@technologist.com> References: <970829204425_-932523099@emout03.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 15:01:23 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: unsubcribe Resent-Message-ID: <"DtZKO2.0.5S6.UYQ4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/538 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Jiyani@aol.com wrote: > >> Really like the input but there is just too much to keep up with in my >> >> incoming box. > > If you find out how to unsubcribe, please tell me how >Thank you. Go to the KICF email discussion page (site in signature) and click on unsubscribe. Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 14:47:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA09036 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 14:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 14:47:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: tammetta@www.clubelite.com Sat Sep 6 14:47:00 1997 Received: from terax.clubelite.com ([204.146.156.220]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA08997; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 14:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709062146.OAA08997@mx2.eskimo.com> Received: from inetlab31.atlanta.ibm.com ([198.133.24.8]) by terax.clubelite.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-0U10) with SMTP id AAA428; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 17:55:14 -0400 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Ben Tammetta" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Old-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 17:47:07 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SMOT Kit status page Reply-to: ben@clubelite.com CC: List Server Vortex Priority: normal In-reply-to: <340FAB7E.B831875@microtronics.com.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: hello, > I am working on a SMOT Kit status page. here is another status type page of OU/ Free energy devices a few of us started using a while back.... you may find it useful http://www.clubelite.com/fe/ ben __________________________________________ Live from NY... Cyber casting the US Open http://www.usopen.org Ben Tammetta ben@clubelite.com pager: 800-759-8888 pin# 1461818 benspager@clubelite.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 16:25:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA16982; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 16:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 16:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 19:19:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Jason Aldo To: Greg Watson Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, List Server Vortex Subject: Re: Can a collapsing magnetic field cause increase in torque? In-Reply-To: <340FA394.E2F8F760@microtronics.com.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"lXZ1P.0.E94.KLU4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/539 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > > > To all: > > I have a question I have been wanting to ask for a long time. > > Ask away. > > > If you had a permanent magnet being attracted to the magnetic field of a > > large air core coil, and you had a force gauge on the permanent magnet to > > indicate how much force the coil was "pulling" with, (with the coil's > > current in a steady state) I ask this. > > If you were to collapse the coil's magnetic field in the fastest way > > Jut open the circuit. As long as a spark doesn't result, its gone! > > > possible, (like the primary coil in a automobile spark coil), would you see > > an increase in the "pulling" force on the pemanent magnet during this > > collapse? (no matter of how short a period) > > Thanks, > > Butch LaFonte > > HLafonte@aol.com > > Hi Butch, > > First, the pulling force is not directly related to the energy used to > create the field. Many factors in the magnetic circuit can alter (+ & > -) the pulling force. > > Second, No, the pulling force will not increase. > > A collapsing field can't generate a greater field than that which it > came from. Would be a nice trick. > > Sorry. > > -- > Best Regards, > Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson > > It seems to me the coil would reverse polarity as the field collapses and try to repel the magnet. Is this wrong? Pete Aldo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 19:52:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA04197; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 19:50:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 19:50:50 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 22:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970906224843_-1568225610@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can a collapsing magnetic field cause torque? Resent-Message-ID: <"2qi7i3.0.U11.9QX4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/541 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A collapsing field can't generate a greater field than that which it > came from. Would be a nice trick. > > Sorry. > > -- > Best Regards, > Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson > > It seems to me the coil would reverse polarity as the field collapses and try to repel the magnet. Is this wrong? Pete Aldo >Pete, I believe Greg is right, but I wonder if instead of a permanent magnet you had a small coil of wire in a closed circuit, if the current flow produced in the small coil by the collapsing magnetic field of the large coil, would cause the two fields to interact in a way that would pull the small coil toward the large coil and indicate a force at the force gauge? (The way a drag is induced in a generator) Pete , Anybody, have comments on this? Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 19:54:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA04837; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 19:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 19:51:34 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 22:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970906224823_1389391542@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can a collapsing magnetic field cause torque? Resent-Message-ID: <"CnPas2.0.UB1.pQX4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/540 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A collapsing field can't generate a greater field than that which it > came from. Would be a nice trick. > > Sorry. > > -- > Best Regards, > Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson > > It seems to me the coil would reverse polarity as the field collapses and try to repel the magnet. Is this wrong? Pete Aldo >Pete, I believe Greg is right, but I wonder if instead of a permanent magnet you had a small coil of wire in a closed circuit, if the current flow produced in the small coil by the collapsing magnetic field of the large coil, would cause the two fields to interact in a way that would pull the small coil toward the large coil and indicate a force at the force gauge? (The way a drag is induced in a generator) Pete , Anybody, have comments on this? Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 20:34:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA09590; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 20:33:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 20:33:05 -0700 Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 23:37:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709070337.XAA11646@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 Resent-Message-ID: <"VHyuh1.0.gL2.m1Y4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/542 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 06:58 PM 9/5/97 -0700, you wrote: >John E. Steck wrote: > >> > Forgive the phrase, but maybe sucessful and unsucessful SMOT'ers should >> > swap balls? >> >> I don't think that will help. If how you hold the hammer affects how you hit >> the nail, switching hammers isn't going to help much. > >Are you sure its not the nails? Have you proven this? > >You mean after all this time trying to find a hammer that dosn't pull to the left as I swing it could be my fault? Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 20:43:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA10460; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 20:42:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 20:42:26 -0700 Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 23:47:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709070347.XAA12503@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: anti-gravity ..piston rocket belt ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"gjel-3.0.LZ2.XAY4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/543 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 02:18 PM 9/5/97 +0100, you wrote: > >> >>Check out www.1second.com/Tecknico.htm. You wont believe what they offer. >> It is not quite what you are looking for but it is still neat stuff. Woody >> >> >> > >They write there: > > Those Amazing Flying Machines! > We guarantee that you and your friends > will be amazed!! > . >The Piston-Powered Rocket Belt: > > .... > Just strap it on and you're ready to fly!! This is >an incredible machine that has vertical flight capability allowing its > pilot to fly and hover at will without the use of >wings or a fuselage. You will be amazed at its simple construction and > the fact that hovering flight can be achieved by >the average individual. > > SPECIFICATIONS > Configuration......Ducted Fans > Fans....................Two 36", 5-bladed > Disc Area Total...14.13 Sq. Ft. > Overall Height....48" > Overall Width....100" > Landing Gear....Feet > . > ENGINE > Rotax 503, 2 Cylinder, 2-Cycle Air Cooled, 50 HP > . > PERFORMANCE > Max Speed SL.................50 mph > Range (@75% power).......50 miles > Fuel Consumption............3 gal/hr. > Rate of Climb...................500 ft/min. > .. > CALCULATED DATA > Power Loading..............6.6 lbs/HP >Payload..........................50 lbs. Fuel Capacity...................3 >gal. US > . > WEIGHT & LOADING > Gross Weight..................330 lbs. > Empty Weight...................80 lbs. > Useful Load.....................250 lbs. > > Take a flight you'll never forget!! > > PLANS....$20 > KIT ...3500 US$ > >========================================= >My questions: >Is this realistic ? > >Can this work ? > >Do they only sell plans or did anybody already see this >device in flight ? > >Please let me know. > >Thanks ! > >Best regards, Stefan. >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com > > Besides weird science my other hobby is building aeroplanes. There seem to be a lot of scam artists in the aviation world so buyer beware. considering a gross weight of 330 lbs that is a lot of thrust to lift get from that engine. even a 180lb pilot and a 80 lb. empty weight that is still 260 lb thrust to get weightless.They must have some other type of antigravity device because the engine alone weighs more than 80 lb.Nice concept but I would like to see some more numbers and a video before I would like to build one.Did you notice the plans for the hover skateboard also at that site? Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 20:51:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA11331; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 20:49:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 20:49:50 -0700 From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 03:49:21 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <341a0ce1.16068844@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <199708290123.LAA28589@nornet.nor.com.au> <3412d4d8.34524329@mail.eisa.net.au> <3409DCEC.4248@tiac.net> <340AD811.5D8884C8@ihug.co.nz> <3410c206.33222707@mail.eisa.net.au> <340CB965.5116@tiac.net> <340cfbfb.11458563@mail.eisa.net.au> <340F6473 .5E93@tiac.net> <34109f67.27357204@mail.eisa.net.au> <3410B7F6.1333@tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <3410B7F6.1333@tiac.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MvNO_2.0.tm2.SHY4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/544 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 05 Sep 1997 18:55:02 -0700, Bob Shannon wrote: [snip] >> And what exactly is the difference between electrostatic potential and >> voltage Bob? > >Electrostatic potential exists as a value at a single point. Relative to what? E.g. a single point can be at two different voltages, relative to two different other points. In this case, what is it's "electrostatic potential"? > >Voltage is the difference between two points. So is electrostatic potential, so once again, what is the difference? > >It has a magnetiude, and a direction. This is clearly not a scalar >value, like say a Coulomb. > >> I suspect that even you, if asked to specify the voltage between a >> particular component and "ground", wouldn't specify millions of >> different vectors between the component, and millions of different >> points on the ground. > >No, I would describe the magnetiude, and direction of the vector. Ok, here is a small example. Take a charged metal ball on top of a foot high vertical insulating rod that suspends it above a 10 ft. sq. metal plate at ground potential. Now since all points of the ground plate are at the same potential, if asked what the voltage of the ball is, are you just going to provide 1 number, (i.e. "n" volts), or are you going to mark out every atom of the ground plate, and provide a separate vector from the ball to each one? > >> IOW direction is of no use in this case, so a scalar value satisfies. > >What about the polarity? Direction clearly matters. Polarity is easily taken care of by the sign of the scalar. (Nobody said a scalar always had to be a positive number). > >> The difference between two scalars is still a scalar. E.g. the >> temperature difference between two objects (say delta T), is still a >> temperature and a scalar. > >Which one was hotter? Which way will heat flow? See above. > >> I think that generally speaking only spatial >> gradients (i.e. dF/dx,y,z where F can be a scalar function), will >> result in vectors. >> So e.g. a *rate of change* in temperature with *distance* will be a >> vector. So the vector only appears when we divide the delta T by a >> delta x to create dT/dx. Because of the introduction of the dx, we >> have in fact introduced a spatial quantity, and with it, automatically >> a direction. > >You have missed the point that voltage has direction and magnetiude, so >it >cannot be described as a scalar value. This happens long before we get >into >rate of change. It is not a point "missed", but rather one disputed. [snip] >Get a hat! > Not yet :). PS "Electrostatic potential" is actually potential energy per unit of charge. Since neither energy nor charge are vectors, neither is potential. (Even though that potential energy is always relative to something else). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 20:54:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA09834; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 20:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 20:51:06 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 03:49:30 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3413ff06.12521400@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <199708290123.LAA28589@nornet.nor.com.au> <3412d4d8.34524329@mail.eisa.net.au> <3409DCEC.4248@tiac.net> <340AD811.5D8884C8@ihug.co.nz> <3410c206.33222707@mail.eisa.net.au> <340CB965.5116@tiac.net> <340cfbfb.11458563@mail.eisa.net.au> <340F6473 .5E93@tiac.net> <34109f67.27357204@mail.eisa.net.au> <3410B7F6.1333@tiac.net> <3410B183.6A1A2CD5@ihug.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <3410B183.6A1A2CD5@ihug.co.nz> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ue7Fl2.0.ZP2.dIY4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/545 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 06 Sep 1997 13:27:32 +1200, John Berry wrote: >Rather than have discussions of what scalar is, why don't we call scalar >something that can not have a vector! >Heat can have a vector between two points, it can have values other than just >temperature, so why don't we all agree to use the word scalar in a case that >can have only one value, of course this can only be done if the thing can not >have a different value between two points so it must be omnipresent and >instantaneous. >No other way can it be a true scalar. Can you think of a single thing in the entire universe, that meets this definition? [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 20:54:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA09853; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 20:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 20:51:13 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 03:49:32 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <34150146.13097531@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <01BCBA68.1221C760@que2-p11.telepac.pt> In-Reply-To: <01BCBA68.1221C760@que2-p11.telepac.pt> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ky1U62.0.sP2.kIY4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/546 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 6 Sep 1997 01:56:12 -0000, António Vilela wrote: [snip] >Not really. The potential HAS an absolute magnitude, which is expressed in Volt. >It exists, e.g., in the vicinity of a charge and, in this case, its absolute value would be >V=Q/(4*pi*e*r) where V is the potential at the point, Q is the charge at distance r from the point, >and all the rest are constants. Actually, even in this case you are measuring a potential difference, specifically, between the reference point and the charge. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 20:54:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA11621; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 20:52:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 20:52:26 -0700 From: PROTIEUS@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 23:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970906235151_707755553@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: anti-gravity ..piston rocket belt ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"FLm7P1.0.Ur2.vJY4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/547 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: i hcecked this out i already have a copy of this i sent off for the anti gravity "hoverboard" if any one else has any ideas ... call me back .. thank you Scotty From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 21:19:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA15518; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:18:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:18:14 -0700 Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:18:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709070418.VAA11175@germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: anti-gravity ..piston rocket belt ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"WoTmD3.0.Jo3.5iY4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/548 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:51 PM 9/6/97 -0400, you wrote: >i hcecked this out i already have a copy of this i sent off for the anti >gravity "hoverboard" if any one else has any ideas ... > >call me back .. thank you > >Scotty Did you order the plans or kit? Any additional info? Thank you, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 21:50:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA18296; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:48:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 21:48:41 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCBB51.20FB0C80@que2-p7.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 05:42:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBB51.21043440" Resent-Message-ID: <"jGJg12.0.lT4.d8Z4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/549 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBB51.21043440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >On Sat, 6 Sep 1997 01:56:12 -0000, Ant=F3nio Vilela wrote: >[snip] >>Not really. The potential HAS an absolute magnitude, which is = expressed in Volt. >>It exists, e.g., in the vicinity of a charge and, in this case, its = absolute value would be >>V=3DQ/(4*pi*e*r) where V is the potential at the point, Q is the = charge at distance r from the point, >>and all the rest are constants. > >Actually, even in this case you are measuring a potential difference, >specifically, between the reference point and the charge. Good Lord, no! The potential at the charge would be infinite! The potential at a point in space due to the presence of a charge is an = absolute value and is, by definition, the energy per unit charge, required to bring a positive = unit charge from infinite to that point. In this case, you are partly right. It is a potential difference between = the point and the infinite, where the potential is assumed to be zero. Fair enough :) >[snip] >Regards, > > > >Robin van Spaandonk >-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* >Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on=20 >temperature. >"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." >PS - no SPAM thanks! >-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* All the best, Ant=F3nio Vilela ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBB51.21043440 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiYFAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAfAAAAUkU6 IGJsYXRhbnRseSBiYWJibGluZyBzY2FsYXJzABYLAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcJAAcABQAqABUAAAAoAQEg gAMADgAAAM0HCQAHAAUAHAA1AAAAOgEBCYABACEAAAA0OEFFRTI1MjQxMjdEMTExQkJEQjQ0NDU1 MzU0MDAwMADhBgEDkAYA5AUAABQAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMA NgAAAAAAQAA5AKB7qc9Qu7wBHgBwAAEAAAAfAAAAUkU6IGJsYXRhbnRseSBiYWJibGluZyBzY2Fs YXJzAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvLtQz6BS4q5JJ0ER0bvbREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQ AAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAFwAAAHZpbGVsYUBtYWlsLnRlbGVwYWMucHQAAAMABhAO/axRAwAHEEMEAAAe AAgQAQAAAGUAAABST0JJTlZBTlNQQUFORE9OS1dST1RFOk9OU0FULDZTRVAxOTk3MDE6NTY6MTIt MDAwMCxBTlTzTklPVklMRUxBV1JPVEU6U05JUE5PVFJFQUxMWVRIRVBPVEVOVElBTEhBU0FOAAAA AAIBCRABAAAATwQAAEsEAABCCgAATFpGdcrOb0r/AAoBDwIVAqQD5AXrAoMAUBMDVAIAY2gKwHNl dO4yBgAGwwKDMgPGBxMCg0YzA8UCAHBycRIic2h0ZW0CgzQUPBOINf0TDX0KgAjPCdkCgAqBDbHp C2BuZwHQNw3wCwoVwksB0AfxYguAIHYDkVOLCrAAcGQCIGsgdwNg7RVAOgqFCoU+C0YXUgwBKxTA HeFjBUBPHQFhdAgsIDYGUXAgMTkAOTcgMDE6NTZkOjESIC0wIlEg4EEZAjBcJxQQAwBvIFZ9AxBl C2AdvBudHw8gFVtycwMAcF0kPyVPH8o+Gk4d4CAZMAdAbHkuwCBUaGUgcB3hAjBxBzEgSEEF8AOR AaBzVQbwdRVAIADAZwMAdEZ1DbAg4HdoaRGwIHEEACBleBTAB5AR8GTLLgADoFYG8HQuJ38oj50p m0kFQC5ABAB0cyDgsGUuZy4g4ByxdCsxDnYt0AuALUB5IG9m9SwwIBGyZytAHVEzRS4R/GNhEfAz QTLALGgc4ApByx2wCGBsLsBiZS9vMH8BKZtWPVEvKDQqgHBpKmUqciktofsEkCtAVi4CM5IraCDA PIW7C4Ag0VE8VjS2BUBkMqH9AHBjK0AFwANSPZk4Dzkf/ymbHVEsMCrQM4MucQVACsD/PsECID+i MsAvX0IvH7tGD2tHHx/KQSBQdSrCMuF28wnwNWsgeQhgRRMHgDYA/whxGuA0gStoP4AN0DwBP9Hn QR9J7x+7c3AFkAaQLdDzTAQ34HR3CeFEhU+VPdSfNRI+mUX/HCQKhUdvBHCMIEwFsDVBbm8hCoV/ Kyw9dTS1N4Yu0VNALTFl/1kvPSZOolVSHLFS8ADQK0D6ZDdRdCNAPJMucVTjNGq/LhEsSjckRBIE AFAGYjRA9w2xNAIjMG4g4DOSCfAEkO5nNEBTAAXAdS0xNKUg4LEZMHF1aRkxX0JiTlf/AJArsExw ZRpAJFv2X0Q9cXc941Z2CoVJNYtNhgqxdOMq4CqQaWdoL0BrEF5h/zZxTr9U41PaVTxb9i2SPALf M5EKhStoYRIEEHUHgGZk1StAegSQbysARgtwBcDHCfAIYG0QIDopHi9Rr48m31CPdm8gM1JlZwsR /2K3eJ5130gPe795b35ff2/PgH96wxyfHaA8chzhXrHIYUBlBABhLmSAL0A8YXV85oI/g08gMy0q f4oviz+MT407h0+IXx/KQ40rMGMdoAhgdDogbSBAdHA6Ly93kkAuOYaJL36F9kAgBbFob/kH4ENG Y2FTAB1gBCACIP+Bv49PH7sVQWThIMAIcFZv05Y/H6wiLpvRLDORA6CdKzFzlCA3ohUwb3Ag4F9E EisxA/BEYTXwdC3hdbpwm9EimO+Z/x/KUAXwxi1Y8QYAUEFNaYIdkP5zXHafb6B/id+mn6evqL/3 jhgKjxvoQURlN+AVMHt2X6qFIr8LRhLygR8gGFEAAbEQAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwQMkD 7k67vAFAAAgwQMkD7k67vAEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAidA= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBB51.21043440-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 6 23:34:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA28736; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 23:31:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 23:31:58 -0700 Message-ID: <3412733C.4E5C@tiac.net> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 02:26:20 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars References: <01BCBA6C.D9199CE0@que2-p11.telepac.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hNoK63.0.v07.Tfa4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/550 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: António Vilela wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > Here we are, once again... > >> And what exactly is the difference between electrostatic potential and > >> voltage Bob? > > > >Electrostatic potential exists as a value at a single point. > > Right. > > >Voltage is the difference between two points. > > Not only. If by voltage you mean something measured in Volt, then voltage > would refer to the electrostatic (or dynamic, for that matter) potential at a point. > But assuming you are referring to "that" voltage... > > >It has a magnetiude, and a direction. This is clearly not a scalar > >value, like say a Coulomb. > OK, now. This is where we really disagree. The potential difference between two points > is a scalar measure. You say 12 V not 12 V in this or that direction. That is totally wrong. WE say we have 12 volts, positive or negative with respect to ground. There is direction. Voltage is a vector, check a textbook. > Please note that it is you that supply the points to this measurement > (and hence the vector part of the thing). Do we tell the current which way to flow? Clearly not. > >> I suspect that even you, if asked to specify the voltage between a > >> particular component and "ground", wouldn't specify millions of > >> different vectors between the component, and millions of different > >> points on the ground. > > > >No, I would describe the magnetiude, and direction of the vector. > > I'm sure that you never did that. No one does. What about polarity? Again, please check a basic text on the subject. > >> IOW direction is of no use in this case, so a scalar value satisfies. > > > >What about the polarity? Direction clearly matters. > > > >> The difference between two scalars is still a scalar. E.g. the > >> temperature difference between two objects (say delta T), is still a > >> temperature and a scalar. > > > >Which one was hotter? Which way will heat flow? > > I'm sure the sign of the difference will tell us that. The sign of the difference is the polarity, and is direction, so we cannot be describing a scalar value! Please please please, read a good textbook on this point. Voltage is a vector. > If it´s positive the first point will be hotter. If it's negative it will be the opposite, I hope. > > >> I think that generally speaking only spatial > >> gradients (i.e. dF/dx,y,z where F can be a scalar function), will > >> result in vectors. > >> So e.g. a *rate of change* in temperature with *distance* will be a > >> vector. So the vector only appears when we divide the delta T by a > >> delta x to create dT/dx. Because of the introduction of the dx, we > >> have in fact introduced a spatial quantity, and with it, automatically > >> a direction. > > > >You have missed the point that voltage has direction and magnetiude, so > >it cannot be described as a scalar value. This happens long before we get > >into rate of change. > > Sorry about this, Bob. We can all see the magnitude of the thing, but I can see no use > for a direction if I know the points in the first place. Have you checked a textbook yet? > Anyway, the electrical field at either of these points, which is a vector quantity, has nothing > to do with their potential difference. Why, you can even have to points in space, > at different potentials, with no electrical field around them. This is hopeless. Conventional theory describes voltage as a vector, having both potential and direction, which we call polarity. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 00:01:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA32010; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 23:59:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 23:59:34 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 19:09:55 +1000 Message-Id: <199709070909.TAA29808@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: How does a brushless DC motor work Resent-Message-ID: <"5ZYqR.0.3q7.L3b4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/551 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:54 AM 9/1/97 -0700, you wrote: >Can someone on this mailing list ,let me know how a brushless DC motor works and on what principle. does it use hall effect sensor and a circuit diagram would be helpful thanks Geoff > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 00:44:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA05669; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 00:43:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 00:43:09 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 00:43:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709070743.AAA03476@germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: How does a brushless DC motor work Resent-Message-ID: <"dZMX73.0.PO1.Cib4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/552 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 07:09 PM 9/7/97 +1000, you wrote: >>Can someone on this mailing list ,let me know how a brushless DC motor >works and on what principle. does it use hall effect sensor Yes, the rotor is a permanent magnet and a hall effect sensor senses its position. In a small motor, like in a small DC fan used in computer power supplies, there are 2 sets of coils which drive the permanent magnet. The hall effect output drives one transistor with one coil in the collector circuit, spaced with respect to the h.e. sensor to cause rotation. the other coil, at 90 deg. from the first, is driven by a second transistor which is coupled to the first transistor as an inverter. So one coil or the other is on, so the fan will self-start. The circuit is only the hall effect sensor, 2 coils, 2 transistors, sometimes with 2 back emf diodes, and 2 base resistors. I was surprised how little circuit there was! -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 05:24:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA06753; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 05:21:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 05:21:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 00:30:48 +1000 Message-Id: <199709071430.AAA31014@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: A new item on electric motor on my site Resent-Message-ID: <"dBqih2.0.Qf1.4nf4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/553 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Have added a new item for a idea for what I believe to be an interesting design for a new electric motor check it out at yours Geoff http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/magn.htm http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 07:24:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id HAA14518; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:21:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709070337.XAA11646@mail.wincom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:19:55 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 Resent-Message-ID: <"T_0lT2.0.iY3.XXh4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/554 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >You mean after all this time trying to find a hammer that dosn't pull to >the left as I swing it could be my fault? maybe you're using the wrong hand? ;-) r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 10:58:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA28089; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709071755.KAA32538@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Re: Electrolytic Decomposing Gas Generator Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:02:11 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HiWY2.0.os6.khk4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/555 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi folks, There have been several messages along this line. The patent is available on the IBM server. I will be sending a long article with details to Geoff Egel to put on his site either today or tomorrow-- I am behind on my mailings becasue of minor computer problems. It should answer your questions about this interesting system. Fred > > > > I may have a copy of the patent (?), but I'll have to dig it out of my > > mess of files when i get back monday (if i in-fact have it). > > On Thu, 04 Sep 1997 18:37:38 +0300 Lev Robert > > writes: > > > > > >Hi Steve,All > > >Anybody has the detailes necessary to build the project? > > >I couldn't find any detailes that enables the building. > > >Robert > > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 10:57:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA01969; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:55:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:55:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199709071755.KAA19471@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 10:55:48 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WUYpm.0.gU.bgk4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/556 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Folks, > > This is hopeless. > > Conventional theory describes voltage as a vector, having both potential > and direction, which we call polarity. Don't get too frustrated Bob, the interchange has been exceedingly educational for those of us basically watching from the sidelines. I am looking for a textbook that clearly states that voltage is a vector (or otherwise--which I doubt) but It is surprising how little discussion of these fundamentals there is, at least in the ones I've looked at so far. Maybe this is part of the problem. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 12:31:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA14828; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 12:29:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 12:29:28 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:33:39 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars Resent-Message-ID: <"FF6zg1.0.bd3.N2m4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/557 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Hi Folks, > >> >> This is hopeless. >> >> Conventional theory describes voltage as a vector, having both potential >> and direction, which we call polarity. > >Don't get too frustrated Bob, the interchange has been exceedingly >educational for those of us basically watching from the sidelines. >I am looking for a textbook that clearly states that voltage is a vector >(or otherwise--which I doubt) but It is surprising how little discussion of >these fundamentals there is, at least in the ones I've looked at so far. >Maybe this is part of the problem. > >Fred Re back-to-the-basics: "The instantaneous levels of alternating current and voltage are VECTOR quantities, but since the instantaneous levels are CONTINUOUSLY CHANGING, an ac waveform must be represented by a ROTATING VECTOR or PHASOR (a "phasor" being a vector that is rotating at a constant angular velocity.)" Evan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 13:16:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA22005; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:14:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:14:52 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:14:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709072014.NAA09941@iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars Resent-Message-ID: <"voLsH.0.fN5.xim4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/558 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello Bob and everyone, I too have read all these "thought provoking" discussions on voltage from the sidelines, and finally looked in several EM textbooks. So will give their 2 cents :-). The idea I've gotten is that a vector has a direction at *A* point, example E field. The electric potential, phi is a scalar, such that E(vector) = -GRAD(phi). Ex= -d(phi)/dx, etc. The point seems to be that phi has a direction if you look at it between 2 points (the vector between the points), but that phi at a single point doesn't have a direction like the E field does, thus it is a scalar. I guess it also applies to voltage, thus they say V isn't a vector. Another book described voltage as dV= E.dL (the dot product of E field and direction vector) which is a scalar. Or, V(between points a to b)= phi(a)-phi(b), using scalar arithmetic. The direction is in the vector a(x,y,z)-b(x,y,z), not the voltage itself. The scalars V or phi can be + or -. Is this the same use of the term scalar as Tom Bearden et all uses?? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 14:25:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA16460; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:23:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:23:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34131965.1F34676B@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 06:45:17 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Re: Can a collapsing magnetic field cause increase in torque? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uAFlU.0.-04.Yjn4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/559 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Peter Jason Aldo wrote: > > It seems to me the coil would reverse polarity as the field collapses and > try to repel the magnet. Is this wrong? > > Pete Aldo Hi Peter, The field will not reverse, it will just collapse. The EMF (Voltage) induced into the coil will however reverse. If the coil were connected to a electrical load, the current flow will be in the same direction as before. Coils will always attempt to maintain their magnetic field constant. I believe your reference to reversing the field comes from Adam's motor. It is true, in that case, the that the field does reverse. This reversal is caused by the influence of the rotor's magnet upon the coils ferrous core. This point is not well understood. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 14:25:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA30697; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:23:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:23:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199709072217.RAA17276@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: , , Subject: attention math gurus: Einstein's unified field theory in English Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:20:08 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PTsN53.0.WV7.cjn4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/560 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Thanks to John Tooker for finding an English translation of Einstein's proposed unified field theory at: http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~u7f01bf/WWW/einstein1930.intro.html Note: due to the amount of math involved, the paper is available in DVI and PostScript formats. If you don't have a Unix system handy to view the DVI, your best bet would be to get someone to print the PostScript file for you. Editorial: Linux is worth the time to install and configure. "I don't want the world -- I just want your half." --T.M.B.G. From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 14:28:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA17153 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:28:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:28:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 14:28:21 1997 Received: from atlas.earthlink.net (atlas-c.earthlink.net [204.119.177.40]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA17109 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:28:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost) by atlas.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with internal id OAA06893; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Old-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:27:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Message-Id: <199709072127.OAA06893@atlas.earthlink.net> To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="OAA06893.873667625/atlas.earthlink.net" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Diagnostic: Mail to jlaing@elmonte.com bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: RO X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --OAA06893.873667625/atlas.earthlink.net The original message was received at Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:26:34 -0700 (PDT) from smartlst@mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail.local: unknown name: jlaing 554 ... Service unavailable --OAA06893.873667625/atlas.earthlink.net Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; atlas.earthlink.net Received-From-MTA: DNS; mx2.eskimo.com Arrival-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:26:34 -0700 (PDT) Final-Recipient: RFC822; jlaing@atlas.earthlink.net Action: failed Status: 5.5.0 Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:27:05 -0700 (PDT) --OAA06893.873667625/atlas.earthlink.net Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (smartlst@mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by atlas.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06891 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:26:34 -0700 (PDT) From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA16730; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709072125.OAA16730@mx2.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #30 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/30 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com --OAA06893.873667625/atlas.earthlink.net-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 14:43:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA01192; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:42:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:42:13 -0700 Message-ID: <34131DF3.3C4037EA@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 07:04:43 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefan Hartmann CC: JNaudin509@aol.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, mrandall@earthlink.net, newman-l@emachine.com, fepps@halcyon.com, bauer_d@fhi-berlin.mpg.de, epitaxy@localaccess.com, bshannon@tiac.net Subject: Re: TEP 6.0 ! :) How switched bif-coils work...? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <19970907233528.0fbe57b4.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LhSNT1.0.XI.q-n4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/561 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > What happens when Switch S1 is toggled closed and opened again, so that > it shorts the second coil and opens it again ? > What happens to the Back-EMF , if a permanent magnet is placed > inside the bifilar coil core ??? > > Thanks a lot in advance. > > Regards, STefan. HI Stefan, Careful, you are getting into PMOD territory. Watching the TEP discussions with interest. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 17:09:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA03602; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:11:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709080011.UAA14130@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: anti-gravity ..piston rocket belt ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"w3_W4.0.8u.W7q4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/562 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:51 PM 9/6/97 -0400, you wrote: >i hcecked this out i already have a copy of this i sent off for the anti >gravity "hoverboard" if any one else has any ideas ... > >call me back .. thank you > >Scotty > >Do I understand you right that you have plans for the rocket belt and you are waiting for plans for the hoverboard? If so I will be asking a few questions about them. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 17:20:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA23220; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:18:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:18:58 -0700 Message-ID: <341343B8.90B9C65F@pop3.idt.net> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 20:15:52 -0400 From: Josef Katz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: evil vector vs. scalar pun Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0ugDG2.0.jg5.nHq4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/563 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Q: What do you get when you cross a tsetse with a mountain climber? A: Nothing, you can't cross a vector with a scalar. i got this from http://www.princeton.edu/~pemayer/sciencejokes/sciencejokes.1of9.txt -joey katz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 18:02:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA28423; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:01:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:01:15 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCBBFA.3FD6EF80@que2-p2.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 01:55:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBBFA.3FDE90A0" Resent-Message-ID: <"lHMjT3.0.xx6.Qvq4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/564 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBBFA.3FDE90A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fred Epps wrote: >Hi Folks, > >>=20 >> This is hopeless. >>=20 >> Conventional theory describes voltage as a vector, having both = potential >> and direction, which we call polarity. > >Don't get too frustrated Bob, the interchange has been exceedingly >educational for those of us basically watching from the sidelines. >I am looking for a textbook that clearly states that voltage is a = vector >(or otherwise--which I doubt) but It is surprising how little = discussion of >these fundamentals there is, at least in the ones I've looked at so = far. >Maybe this is part of the problem. > >Fred Hello Bob, Fred, Robin, and the rest of us, Thank you Fred for your kind words.=20 I didn=B4t understand what was at stake here at the beginning, so I = think I must speak my mind on this. I hope I will not bore any of you :-) The fundamental question here is no longer "is difference of potential a = scalar or a vector?" but at a deeper level, "what is a scalar and what is a vector?". If one understands = this, then the potential thing will come very smoothly to reason.=20 Also, why we find some physical quantities to be vectors or to be = scalars, should be discussed. Most of us recognize J.C. Maxwell as an authority on the matter, so I'll = quote from his book: " A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism", 3rd edition, Art. 11 - "Meaning of the words Scalar and Vector." " One of the most important features of Hamilton's method is the = division of quantities into Scalars and Vectors. A Scalar quantity is capable of being completely defined by a single = numerical specification. Its numerical value does not in anyway depend = on the directions we assume for the coordinate axes. A Vector, or Directed quantity, requires for its definition three = numerical specifications, and these may most simply be understood as = having reference to the directions of the coordinate axes. Scalar quantities do not involve direction. The volume of a = geometrical figure, the mass and the energy of a material body, the = hydrostatical pressure at a point in a fluid, and the potential at a = point in space, are examples of scalar quantities. A vector quantity has direction as well as magnitude, and is such = that a reversal of its direction reverses its sign. The displacement of = a point, represented by a straight line drawn from its original to its = final position, may be taken as the typical vector quantity, from which = indeed the name Vector is derived. The velocity of a body, its momentum, the force acting on it, an = electric current, the magnetization of a particle of iron, are instances = of vector quantities. ..." He then proceeds to talk about tensors, but that is of no concern to us. A few notes to keep in mind: - The Hamilton's method Maxwell talks about is the infamous = mathematical theory of the quaternions. - One could deduce from Maxwell's words that the area of a geometrical = figure is a scalar, even though this figure is oriented in space. Or in = another example, that the mass of may car is a scalar, irrespective of = its location or orientation in space. We now have a clear definition of what is a Scalar and what is a Vector. = It is now time to see why some quantities are scalar and others are = vector. So let me write a few words on this: There are no scalar fields, or vector ones, or potentials, or gradients = or whatever.=20 At least I've never seen one. Nor do I know anyone who has. And I don't = mean the invisible variety of it, I mean *any* kind of physical field. If this shocks you, don't let it. It's true. What we all have been = talking about are mathematical objects (like quaternions I'm afraid). Simple mathematical objects that have their rules of behaviour and their = relations. What scientists and researchers and experimenters do is try to find the = best mathematical representation of their "physical phenomenon" and be happy to observe the properties of = the mathematical object reflected on the "real stuff". In short, what they do is "model" the physical = reality. This is not exactly true, of course, as there are cases of "mathematics = preceding physics", the first case of which being the famous Maxwell theory of electromagnetic wave propagation and = light. So what I mean is, we observe phenomena then devise a model then predict = experiment results then, hopefully,=20 confirm our model through experimentation.It is the Scientific Method. Although a lot could be said about that, it is not, however, the subject = of this message. What concerns us most is the "model" part of the process. The physical phenomena and objects have to be described in some = language. There have been several along the history, but for Natural Philosophy the most common one is Mathematics. The following question should be then: "what object of mathematics = should I choose to stand for my physical thing?" I ask this question like if it were a question of choosing, and I'm = going to show that to a certain extent or in certain cases, it is. Take the case of a stream of flowing water. One might observe, through = some cleverly devised experiment, that the water flows faster in some points, and slower in others, the keyword here = being "flows", that is, the water is going in some direction at some rate. Ringing any bells so far? Let's go on. So we have a physical "attribute" of water flow that we want to model. = It=B4s speed. Common sense is sufficient to say in this case: "The best is to use a vector and see what happens". And indeed this is = what people do most of the times: Just throw the magnitude and direction = into a good old vector and it's done. That done and we leave to = Mathematics the task of finding it's properties. It could be that the = speed of water is just the gradient of some potential function. Or maybe = it is the rotational of a vector potential, like in vortices. Well, now it doesn't matter anymore. It was a sound choice, an = instinctive one. Clearly if the water was going somewhere and at a=20 certain speed (in that direction), a vector was the only choice. Or was = it? In fact, in certain cases we could also have used a scalar. Like in the = flow within a pipe. Or the current in electrical circuits. It is a common engineering practice to find particular rules for ducted = flows, considering all the variables as scalars. It makes sense, after all the problem is an unidirectional one. So, one dimension, one = coordinate. A scalar. Take the ordinary Ohm's law. All scalars. How is = that possible if the electrical current is a vector? There. The point is made. We can choose whatever representation we see = fit. Depending on the context, and as long as it works.=20 I have, however, named examples where the representation is simplified. = I have not suggested that a more complex representation is advantageous. = And in fact, I find it hard to see that it can be.=20 It is not, however, impossible. We can, if we want, make the "difference = of potential" a vector. All it takes is the trouble to define it with a = minimum of meaning (not easy, I've tried), and it=B4s done. We would = find then that our "vector DOP" is rather useless. In most cases, the functions of this value would be found to be = independent of the direction part of it, and only vary according to = it=B4s magnitude (try measuring the voltage of a small dry battery with = the positive pole up, and then repeat the measurement with the battery = horizontal, in 99% of the cases the voltage will be pretty much the = same). And in the cases where the particular points you make the = measurements, or it=B4s distance, or their alignment in space, matters, = then we already have a vector to account for that, which is the = difference of their position vectors, in any reference frame. So, to conclude, I'll summarize my views on the subject in the = following: The classification of a physical quantity as Scalar or Vector is not = universal. It's classification should be a consequence of the particular = model in consideration. It is, however, a mathematical classification, = based on physical evidences (or habits). It follows from this that the = mathematical rules for dealing with the object apply. One of these rules = is that the sum of scalars is also a scalar and the sum of vectors a = vector. The DOP is a sum of potentials, i.e, scalars and therefore a = scalar. This does not mean, however, that I don't accept the definition = of a vector DOP. Just that I've never seen any. In case there=B4s anyone interested in textbook references, I have = J.D. Kraus' "Electromagnetics" 3rd edition, from McGraw-Hill that in = page 21, Section 2-7 "The electric scalar potential" computes the DOP as = a scalar, as expected and usual. As I was writing this, Evan Soule has proposed that: "The instantaneous levels of alternating current and voltage are VECTOR quantities, but since the instantaneous levels are CONTINUOUSLY = CHANGING, an ac waveform must be represented by a ROTATING VECTOR or PHASOR (a "phasor" being a vector that is rotating at a constant angular = velocity.)" In the context in which the sentence was written, voltage is indeed a = vector. Should, however, Evan read the whole text where this was extracted from, = and he would have understood that voltage is not a vector of space (not our 3D-space = anyway, but a time-phase plane). I'm sorry if I'm not clearer in my writing. It is hard to see something = clearly and not be able to find the best words and phrases to convey = this sights to others. Anyway, I hope all this trouble is of any use, and it was a pleasure to = discuss these subjects with you. I've found these discussions very stimulating, in particular to question things whose reasonss are = long forgotten and is good to remember. 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=_NextPart_000_01BCBBFA.3FDE90A0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 7 23:05:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA03673 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 23:05:47 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 23:05:47 -0700 X-Envelope-From: curtis.sandoval@supervalu.com Sun Sep 7 23:05:44 1997 Received: from inetgw-a.supervalu.com (firewall-user@inetgw-a.supervalu.com [208.19.191.65]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA03643 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 23:05:43 -0700 From: curtis.sandoval@supervalu.com Received: by inetgw-a.supervalu.com; id BAA26071; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 01:07:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from int-ns-a.supervalu.com(10.169.9.21) by inetgw-a.supervalu.com via smap (3.2) id xma026069; Mon, 8 Sep 97 01:06:51 -0500 Received: from sho-1lnsmtp (sho-1lnsmtp [10.169.1.130]) by Supervalu.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA15187 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 00:58:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: by sho-1lnsmtp(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 8625650C.0022B445 ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 01:06:04 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SVHO@SVEXTERNAL To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <8625650C.00214DB4.00@sho-1lnsmtp> Old-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 01:06:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Tesla Car Circuit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=o3704VpCViXubrZIIvDKw7wGxO8bDHppVZ5dwvU0K93cOEUBxDcuTUtY" X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: --0__=o3704VpCViXubrZIIvDKw7wGxO8bDHppVZ5dwvU0K93cOEUBxDcuTUtY Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Anyone with information on or relating to this subject please forward it to me, also. Have been doing much work with Tesla's ideas, and have not run across this material yet. Thanks. EMail: cgs00@supervalu.com (Embedded image moved freenrg-l @ eskimo.com to file: 09/05/97 05:58 AM PIC06961.PCX) Please respond to freenrg-l@eskimo.com To: freenrg-l @ eskimo.com cc: (bcc: Curtis G. Sandoval/HOMEOFFICE/SUPERVALU) Subject: Re: Tesla Car Circuit At 02:10 AM 9/5/97 -0600, you wrote: >I was toying with a few ideas re the tesla electric car circuits described >in the Teslafe material. >Regards, >John >I heard a lot about a so called Tesla car Does any one have and gifs or information they can send me about this design Geoff Egel --0__=o3704VpCViXubrZIIvDKw7wGxO8bDHppVZ5dwvU0K93cOEUBxDcuTUtY Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="PIC06961.PCX" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 CgUBCAAAAABoACwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAABaQABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sT zRPHE8MTwhPwEwzIBgzYE8wTxhPDE8IT7hPOBtcTzBPGE8MTE+wTwgbCBwbCEgbCEgbCEsUG1hPL E8YTwxMT6hMMwgYHwgLCAwISwgfEEsMCwwbVE8sTxRPDExPpE8MGAwcCBwMCwhLDB8ISwgISwgLD BtUTyhPFE8MTE+gTwgIHA8ICEw4DDgLDE8USwwLCEMIG1BPKE8UTwxMT5xMCAwcDAg4TDgITwgIS D8ISD8ISBRICEcICwwbUE8oTxRPCExPmEwYCBwMCDgIOwgLDExITEhPCEg8GxgLDBtMMDAfJE8QT whMT5hMGwwITBgMCDhLFEw8SE8ISBgIDwhIDEsMGB9MDxwwHxRPDExPlEwYHAhESAg8CwhMPwhMP xBMPxRIQwgIDAgMCBtMDxwPEDAfDE8IT4RMHwwzCBgLCEhMCDxLIE8MSD8MSwwIQAwIDBgfSDMkD wgPCDAfCExPbEwfGDMIDDAIHERITEhMSwxMPwxMPwxPDEgIDAgMCwwMCBgzREwfHDMYDDMITE9YT B8UMyAMGB8ICBhLDAsYTEhMSExIPwhIHAgcCAwUQAgYRBgfSE8UTB8QMwgMMwhMT0hMHxAzLA8IM BsISDxESExITAw4DxBMSExITwxICBwPCAsMDDMIGB9ITyRMHwwzCExPPEwfDDMkDxQwHwhMGBxIT AhECEwMOAg7DExITDxMPwxIDAgMCBwMCDAYRBgfSE8kTwhPCDMITE8wTB8MMxwPEDMIHxxMGxBLD Ag4DDgIGwg/IEgIDwgIDAgwCEMIGB9ITyRMHDAcMwhMTyhMHwgzGA8MMwgfMEwYHwhLCEAIOAg4C DhDDAhIPxhIFAgXDAgUCEQYH0hPHEwfCDAcPDMITE8gTB8IMxQPDDAfQEwbDEhDEAhAOEA4QwgLG EgcSBhIGBcMCBcIGB9ATB8UMEwfCDA8HDwwHwhMTxhMHwgzEA8MMB9MTBgfCEhADEMICDhAOEMIC EQIDxxIGBwbCAgUCEQYHyxMHxAwHwhMHEwzCEwcPBw8MB8MTE8UTBwzEA8IMB9YTBsQSEAMCA8UC EQIDAgPDEgcSBgfCBgUQAhDCBgfGEwfEDAfGE8INEwzCEw8HwgwHwxPCE8QTBwzDA8IMB9gTBgfE EhACEMYCEQIDAsQSBhLDBsICEALCBgfCEwfDDAfKEwfCDRMHwhPCDAfEE8ITE8MTBwzCA8IMB9oT DBIHwxLDDBEDxQIDAgPDEgYSBgfCBgIQAhAGDAfCEwzDE8MHyRMHwhPCBxMHxRPDExPDEwzCAwwH 3RMGxxICEQPDAgMCA8MSBhIGBwYMBhACEAIGDMMTDBPCB8YTwwfHEwfGE8MTwhPDEwwDDAfeEwYH xxICEQPDAgMCwhIGEgYHBgwGEAIQAsIGB8MTDMYTwwfKEwzGE8MTwhPDE8IMB98TDBLCB8USAgMR xAISB8ISBgcGDAYQBhAGEAYMB8MMB8kTwwfHEwzGE8MTwhPDEwwPwgzfEwYSB8ISB8ISAhECAwID EgcSBwYHBgwGEAYQxgzDD8IHxRPDB8kTBwzGE8MTwhPDEwzDD8QM3BPCBhIGwxIGAhECAwIHBgcG yAzJDxMHzRMHwwwHxxPDE8ITwxMHDMYPxwwH1BMGEgYSBhLLDM4PwwwTDMcTwgfEDAfJE8QTwhMT xBMHwgzLD9sM0w/GDAfDEwzDEwfEDAfLE8YTwxMTxhMHxAztD8gMBgfIE8QMB84TxxPDE8ITyhMH xwzbD8sMEAUMBcIMwgYH1RPKE8UTwxMT0RMH2wwGEAYQBhACBQwFDAUMBgwHBgfWE8sTxRPDExPu EwYMBhAGEAIGDAYMwwYH1xPLE8YTwxMT8BPKBgfYE8wTxhPDExP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhMMAAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD/ /wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8A AAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A //8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAA AP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA /wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCk gICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vw oKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw //vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzA psrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDA wNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICA wMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACA AICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACA gACA//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP////// --0__=o3704VpCViXubrZIIvDKw7wGxO8bDHppVZ5dwvU0K93cOEUBxDcuTUtY-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 04:09:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA30540; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 04:08:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 04:08:21 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970908070743_-400130690@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: More on the TEP principle.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.19388.emout18.mail.aol.com.873716863" Resent-Message-ID: <"3wz0B.0.5T7.aoz4q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/565 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.19388.emout18.mail.aol.com.873716863 Content-ID: <0_19388_873716863@emout18.mail.aol.com.1981> Content-type: text/plain Hi All The main purpose of the TEP device is to tap energy from the ZPE by a production of unbalanced time-streams between the S-flow ( S=ExH ( Poynting flow ) ) which flows ouside the TEP and the current flow which flows inside the TEP. This can be done with time compression using the parametric effect in a bifilar coil or by alteration of the electrons flow inside the circuit. You will find in the attached document a simple diagram which shows this main principle. Also, you will find more informations at : http://members.aol.com/overunity4/html/tepprinc.htm and http://members.aol.com/overunity4/html/vacprob1.htm Sincerely, ( This mail has been sent at 11h07 GMT on 08 September 97 ) Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ --PART.BOUNDARY.0.19388.emout18.mail.aol.com.873716863 Content-ID: <0_19388_873716863@emout18.mail.aol.com.1982> Content-type: image/gif; name="TEPPRINC.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdhvwEuAeMAAAAAABERESIiIjMzM0RERFVVVWZmZnd3d4iIiJmZmaqqqru7u8zMzN3d 3e7u7v///ywAAAAAvwEuAUAE/vDJSau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oqq5s2wJuLM90bd94ru8gLPkA Hy8UpBQfx6BSWDn+gNDnc2lxTpJQKlKIlVql1egW3B03mUbm15xZl51v8VUc1w7vPHRnjTzj /4CBgoOEhSd6homKi4w4do2QV5GTlJWWl5hNmZucnXiIKKCeH6KjpqeoHEtKLKWpba+xsrM/ fS6utJK5u7yVajG4u8GJq0XDZ8crrMTJqsuhgqLNHtOv1YS/tbbbRrrbQN5c2raI4N/hF3S6 4uea7eToVd3y42jlOcfXG/qn/L3/AKkdAhYwXUETbuhkUUhmVZiGU575mfNQA59JF6HdOuiO 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nxikqeL0sboKqeZnsdYDNp5mqbiKaa26qyJEss21qCHWgt6KsAZRqGoIajMIQnAYrTzra9J6 rdojsVH5pTBb/q9Ge7RIi28QeW2H2GLqmLSyiafbAq0pqFxXo6i8qDZB64KAelwDy7V7OrUu JIIhGHNrY7VtCLCH+qH6qbL91DhZyC/0VrIXe4Rx21wpO6sru6nTA1c9aGLElbdbOKu2Wq2Z urEdW00nu6u0qre2NSU022M6a7CSSmlZM63Juqxby3H2ObZXm4U264YQu7OeCrVIZkCmm7qq q6WmBhsaSo37SnrntG58KqkneLMES7ZsmILFcU8MtrCf2yFRwmcAu6yg8bO8u6dzVha7JrZF i4Cdqqvq6bSMW55c6IP2qYEsS72QOiMa1Lb4ymwhe7h3K6vJlrIkaLKb1p5VWLe3/pqr27tr hbO4z8tMs1u8pLuClqi7Y4io+tsr3EC1kRvAa5lJupGzb4u81ArA/KuzkWazepWt0Eax2xjA FUnBq5vBGjyyNxievpWQIheNXjuhhMe8OtdA9IoUDma8XdvCZ2gi0zmx0Vm2advAXkvDzQq8 NEy6tet0tKu765qN2jZlqXpHvaiq8qB0x/sz0UOEcimFf1q9hpuGmAq+dquxjhtncxsZJYx7 tMatTQpByJbCc7G32lnF52koJRS9j0W/3Eu+WGzGWszFvjh0v3rHZyeJwVpUVlhpLnywJmyq zyazkrvDC4y727qfaqjDufbAkTa6Cgu/2CfGbjObKyhlEmzXc0KrlQC6wZ78yaAcypYSAQA7 --PART.BOUNDARY.0.19388.emout18.mail.aol.com.873716863-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 06:07:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id GAA06978; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 06:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 06:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <9709080804.ZM1984@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:04:11 -0500 In-Reply-To: Bob Shannon "Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5" (Sep 5, 6:16pm) References: <340F124D.43FF@motown.lmco.com> <340EF079.6883FF1E@microtronics.com.au> <340F6E87.405@tiac.net> <9709050837.ZM27597@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> <3410B8C7.4D93@tiac.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: I am Back & SMOT Mk2 Beta 5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"iaaCj3.0.xi1.ZW_4q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/566 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 5, 6:16pm, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > Forgive the phrase, but maybe successful and unsuccessful SMOT'ers should > > > swap balls? > > > > I don't think that will help. If how you hold the hammer affects how you hit > > the nail, switching hammers isn't going to help much. > > Are you sure its not the nails? Have you proven this? I can prove nothing as it somewhat impossible to evaluate all variables in all failed setups to find the linking pattern. I can only base my analogy on my own observations reading this list and in my own mad scientist's lair getting my fingers dirty. Several people doing the same experiment with the same equipment coming up with different results only leaves protocol. Yes, variances in equipment often can be blamed, but should be able to be overcome with compensations in the system. Ultimately this is the reasoning behind my concluding the effect "experimenter dependent" not "observer dependent". Please understand this is not a slam on those unable to replicate. I have found methodology plays a large role in the success of this system and seemingly insignificant details impact the setup greatly. I am certain GW can back that statement. 8^) -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 07:43:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA24446; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:41:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:41:51 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:46:01 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Morning Joke Resent-Message-ID: <"HMPRY2.0.tz5.jw05q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/567 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: There are three engineers in a car - an electrical engineer, a chemical engineer and a Microsoft engineer. Suddenly the car stops dead in the middle of the road and the three engineers look at each other wondering what could be wrong. The electrical engineer suggests stripping down all the electronics of the car and trying to trace where the fault might have occurred. The chemical engineer, not knowing much about cars, suggests that maybe the fuel is becoming emulsified and getting blocked somewhere. Then, the Microsoft engineer, not knowing much about anything, comes up with a suggestion. "Why don't we close all the windows, get out, get back in, open the windows again, and maybe it'll work". From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 07:46:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA25362; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:45:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:45:22 -0700 X-Sender: wharton@128.183.200.226 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3410AA90.A86D85EF@ihug.co.nz> References: <01BCBA31.05E6B1E0@que3-p12.telepac.pt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:45:09 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Larry Wharton Subject: Re: what do you think about my ZFS? Resent-Message-ID: <"LQyLj3.0.5C6.1-05q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/568 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John Berry wrote: >I did an experiment recently in which I found that if you put a half >wave rectified AC in to the primary you will not only heat up your >transformer a bit (and full wave rectified will totally cook it), you >will get an output that is AC but has a DC component! >The DC part is small but it is real and not toooo weak. This is an interesting result. The induced electric field in the secondary would be given by integrating E = - grad(P) - dA / dt where P is the electric potential from the primary and A is the vector potential from the primary, over the secondary windings. The EMF would be given by EMF = Integral[ -grad(P) - dA / dT] dot dl the first term would be P(beginning)-P(end) and would be small. The second term would vanish under time averaging. So we have Time average [secondary EMF] -> 0 It could be that your meter is not doing the time average very well. To address this question one could connect the secondary to a series RC circuit. If the RC time constant is much larger that 1/60 then the capacitor will do the time integrating quite well. A 100 K resistor and 10 mfd capacitor should be fine. Of course an electrolytic capacitor would most likely be used so the ploarity has to be selected to be consistant with the sign of the EMF out of the transformer. Lawrence E. Wharton NASA/GSFC code 913 Greenbelt MD 20771 (301) 286-3486 Email - wharton@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 07:53:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id HAA20087; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970908095559.006afbbc@world.std.com> X-Sender: mica@world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:55:59 +0000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars In-Reply-To: <199709072014.NAA09941@iceland.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"loBU12.0.mv4.b315q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/569 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 01:14 PM 9/7/97 -0700, Dave wrote: >Hello Bob and everyone, >I too have read all these "thought provoking" discussions on voltage from the >sidelines, and finally looked in several EM textbooks. So will give their 2 >cents :-). >The idea I've gotten is that a vector has a direction at *A* point, example >E field. The electric potential, phi is a scalar, such that >E(vector) = -GRAD(phi). Ex= -d(phi)/dx, etc. The point seems to be that phi >has a direction if you >look at it between 2 points (the vector between the points), but that phi at a >single point doesn't have a direction like the E field does, thus it is a >scalar. I guess it also applies to voltage, thus they say V isn't a vector. > It applies directly, because +V = - phi Ben Franklin did many good things, but he was off by a minus sign on that one. ;-) [ My old teacher Prof. Victor Weisskopf taught that it wasnt fair to take points off for a factor of -1. Guess he was correct again. ;-)X] >Another book described voltage as dV= E.dL (the dot product of E field and >direction vector) which is a scalar. Or, V(between points a to b)= >phi(a)-phi(b), using scalar arithmetic. The direction is in the vector >a(x,y,z)-b(x,y,z), not the voltage itself. The scalars V or phi can be + or -. > >Is this the same use of the term scalar as Tom Bearden et all uses?? >-Dave > > Best wishes. Mitchell Swartz (mica@world.std.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 08:29:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA00676; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:27:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:27:24 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:31:29 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: **ALERT: Senate bill S.507 Resent-Message-ID: <"6ftJX1.0.RA.Rb15q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/570 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear List members, At the urging of Mr. Michael Kiser, I wanted to pass along the following regarding Senate Bill S.507 which could create major restrictions in patent law that may affect all inventors in America. The Website which discusses this issue in detail (and what actions one can specifically take regarding this proposed legislation) is: http://www.inventorsdigest.com/default.html The site urges everyone to contact your Senator's offices on Wednesday, September 10th in order to "counteract the lobbyists which shall be visiting the Senate on Wednesday." I've included several excerpts from the site below. Very sincerely, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood literally. All energy is the same as mechanical energy, whether it exists in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form. The energy in electromagnetic phenomena is _mechanical_ energy." --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL =7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F= =7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:39:04 -0500 =46rom: mkiser To: Evan Soule Subject: Re: ALERT!!! Senate bill S.507 to create major restrictions in patent law! Evan: I've copied the following page from the Inventor's Digest web site. All of the scoop is written below. It requests for all of us to call our Senators' offices on Wednesday the 10th (two days from now) in order to counteract the lobbyists which shall be visiting the Senate on Wednesday. We need to get this information out today! Michael Kiser =7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F= =7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F SITE EXCERPTS: MARK YOUR CALENDAR!!! WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 10, 1997 Call and/or Fax your Senators Tell them: VOTE NO ON S. 507!!! Join with other American inventors, small business owners and others who demand that Congress maintain a strong U.S. patent system! On Wednesday, September 10, call your U.S. Senators and tell them you are opposed to S. 507, "The Omnibus Patent Act of 1997." =46or nearly 10 years legislation has been introduced in the Congress that, if enacted, would weaken inventors' rights. This legislation favors big business and international interests. So far, the "little guys" of America have been successful in preventing this legislation from becoming law. This has been a real "David and Goliath" fight . . . and one of the biggest battles is about to be waged. GOLIATH LOBBIES =7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F On Wednesday, September 10, the "Corporate Suits" (representatives of big business) will walk the halls of the U.S. Senate. They will lobby Senators to support S. 507. This effort is being organized by the Intellectual Property Owners Assn., a national organization which "claims" to represent the interests of independent inventors. It does, in fact, represent the giant multi-national corporations and the "Corporate Suits" who will be walking the halls are on Corporate Payrolls and Corporate Expense Accounts. DAVID CALLS AND FAXES =7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F The "little guy" in this battle doesn't live on Corporate Expense Accounts . . . you can't fly to Washington, D.C. at the drop of a hat . . . Senate doors don't swing open because you're in town . . . BUT YOU CAN MAKE YOUR POSITION HEARD. ALL of the Senators must receive phone calls and/or faxes on September 10 from those who oppose S. 507. Critically important, however, is that the members of the Senate Small Business Committee be contacted. These Senators are most concerned about the future of the country's small businesses and your message will make a difference!! WHEN YOU CALL: =7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F * Ask to speak to the Senator's legislative aide and make a note of his or her name. (If he or she is unavailable, leave your name and phone number and a message that you are opposed to S. 507 -- ask for a return phone call!) * Be polite and courteous. * Identify yourself as a resident of (City, State) and that way they know you are a constituent (that means you're a VOTER!). * If you are a patent holder, let them know how many patents you hold. * If you are a small business owner, let them know that as such you are concerned about the negative impact S. 507 will have on your ability to grow your business. * Explain that you are opposed to S. 507 in its entirety but you are most concerned about the section of S.507 that would force patent holders to grant a FREE license to a SECRET PRIOR USER. This provision of S. 507 cuts out the very heart of the U.S. Patent System which is constitutionallly mandated to grant inventors EXCLUSIVE rights to their inventions. If this Congress forces patent holders to grant FREE licenses to Prior Secret Users, how, then, do they define the word, "EXCLUSIVE"????? As the "Corporate Suits" walk the halls of the Senate, the Senators' phones will be ringing off the hook and the fax machines will be smokin'! YOU can be part of this vital effort to let your Senators know that Big Business doesn't fuel America's economy! They may have the bucks and the corporate expense accounts and the fancy buildings and uptown addresses but IT'S AMERICA'S INVENTORS AND SMALL BUSINESSES THAT ARE THE BACKBONE OF OUR ECONOMY. A vote against S. 507 is a vote for America's economic future! To find your Senators' phone and fax numbers, go to http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ Also, you can call the US Capitol Switchboard at (202) 224-3121. Just ask to be connected to your Senators' offices and you'll be put right throug= h. Remember: YOU HAVE 2 SENATORS AND YOU WANT TO CALL BOTH OF THEM! Ask your friends, family members and co-workers to call also. Every time a Senator's phone rings we're closer to defeating S. 507!!!! Joanne Hayes-Rines, President United Inventors Assn. of the USA SAMPLE EMAIL LETTER: =7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F=7F September 8, 1997 Senator U.S. Senate Washington, D.C. Re: S. 507, The Omnibus Patent Act of 1997 Dear Senator: We, the undersigned small businesses and independent inventors from the= state of ________, are writing to you to express our great concern about S. 507, the Omnibus Patent Act of 1997. The Judiciary Committee report on the hearings which were held on S. 507 intensified our concerns that the repercussions of this seriously flawed bill will hinder the very existence of our business and inventive activities. While S. 507 has many harmful aspects, we respectfully present to you our concerns about the provisions related specifically to Prior User Rights. If an infringer can claim Prior User Rights as a defense, then: * the incentive to use the patent system is removed in our first-to-invent system; * the value of a patent as an exclusive licensable property is diminished. Small entities and universities that license their patented technologies can no longer guarantee the licensee an exclusive monopoly; * difficult questions will be raised as to whether the patent applicant is truly the first to invent and whether the patent is valid. Granting rights to prior users submarines the diligent applicant who has filed and received his patent in good faith only to have its very validity, and certainly its value, threatened by those individuals who chose to forego the patent system; * all risks associated with employing Trade Secrets as an alternative to sharing one's innovations with the rest of the United States for a limited exclusive monopoly are removed. Trade Secrets do not expire, but under our system one of the risks associated with trade secrets is the loss of rights if someone else claims them. By granting prior user rights, those who chose trade secrets get all the rewards for foregoing the patent system but take none of the risks; * the infringer can ramp up production with impunity; * the rewards will go to the secret keeper which is the antithesis of the reason our patent system was created. In the Constitution, the Founding =46athers sought to promote the disclosure of innovation by granting a monopoly for a limited time. They knew trade secrets did nothing to further the general knowledge or to reward the innovators. * the only remedy left to the patent holder is litigation. The prior user rights provision tilts the playing field to the large multinational corporations and other deep pockets. Imagine the devastating effect that protracted litigation will have on a small business that must defend its patented technology against an infringer who claims prior user rights. We have focused on the problems which will be created by forcing patent holders to grant FREE licenses to prior secret users, but understand that we are opposed to the enactment of S. 507. As a whole, S. 507 is a bill that favors the interests of large multinational corporations at the expense of budding, developing small businesses. On the issue of corporatizing the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, for example, the PTO is the one government agency that has remained scandal free during its entire history. The examination of patent applications is a quasi-judicial function which, to date, has been performed by civil service employees who are free from undue influence. If the PTO is turned into a government corporation, patent examiners will lose their civil service status and their jobs and their careers will be exposed to the vagaries of those in power. If enacted, S. 507 will be extremely injurious to the future of America's small businesses and independent inventors. We ask that you consider the problems which will be created for America's small businesses and independent inventors and vote against S. 507. Thank you very much. Sincerely, Signature __________________________________ Company ____________________________________ Address ____________________________________ ___________________________________________ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 13:28:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA26307; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:25:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:25:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199709082118.QAA08057@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: evil vector vs. scalar pun Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 21:31:06 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Fz01k.0.tQ6.Hz55q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/571 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > Q: What do you get when you cross a tsetse with a mountain climber? > A: Nothing, you can't cross a vector with a scalar. I heard a different version: Q: What do you get if you cross an elephant and a grape? A: elephant grape sin(theta) Q2: What do you get if you cross an elephant and a mountaineer? A2: You can't -- the mountaineer is a scalar. Thomas Pynchon writes: / 1 | ----- d(cabin) = log(cabin)+c = houseboat / cabin Then there's the one-liner I invented myself: "Scalar physics has potential." -- "Let us grapple with the Ineffable itself and see if we might not eff it after all!" --Douglas Adams From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 14:41:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA08509; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 14:39:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 14:39:15 -0700 Message-ID: <34149A36.3A4E@motown.lmco.com> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 17:37:10 -0700 From: francis x roarty Reply-To: froarty@motown.lmco.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: Antigravity@primenet.com Subject: need some math help References: <199709040830.BAA32023@mail1.halcyon.com> <340E7D1B.2918CD3D@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CvXdj.0.n42.2275q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/572 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi everyone, I have been obsessed with the report on the Woodward's paper located at http://www.inetarena.com/~noetic/pls/gravity.html#mayberelated It is based on Mach's principle that inertial forces react with the universe and it implies that oscillating inertial forces can be electrically unballanced during fractions of the mechanical cycle to produce an inertial thruster. I believe alternating change of energy (electrical oscillation) can be used for the 2nd derivative of energy in the energy equation but I do not know how to take the 2nd derivative of the other side of the equation mc^2. Can I treat c like a variable and simply bring the exponent down as a coefficent of mass? Is it even possible to take the 2nd derivative of this equation and will the resulting units make sense? The reason for this question is due to disagreement over the numbers Woodward arrives at below for mass variation using only 100w of electrical energy. A coleague has pointed out how much energy would be required to equal this amount of mass(30mg) using the basic energy formula but I am trying to find out if this "virtual" transitory mass can be equated to the 2nd derivative of the basic equation. I don't believe Woodward "creates" mass, he just caused it to vary about it's average value. The question of course is if it really offloads some of the reactionary force to the universe instead of the system. snip Could this effect be what Schnurer and Podkletnov encountered with their pulsed fields acting as the piezoelectric driver. the SC as the moving mass and harmonic electrical oscillations due to stray inherent properties? Am I out on a limb here or what? Frank Frank From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 16:29:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA27973; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:27:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:27:34 -0700 Message-ID: <34148821.C86743BC@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 08:50:01 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: SMIT Kit Status Page UP X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VmWhX2.0.qq6.Zd85q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/573 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: HI All, The first part of the SMOT kit status page is up. If you have ordered a SMOT kit, please check your email address is correct. I will have the SMOT "Rollaround" kit drawings finished up by Wed and a project timetable up by Friday. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 19:25:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA30371; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:25:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:25:25 -0700 Message-ID: <3414DC6C.2E55@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 22:19:40 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars References: <199709071755.KAA19471@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3uN8H3.0.KQ7.JEB5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/574 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Fred Epps wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > > This is hopeless. > > > > Conventional theory describes voltage as a vector, having both potential > > and direction, which we call polarity. > > Don't get too frustrated Bob, the interchange has been exceedingly > educational for those of us basically watching from the sidelines. > I am looking for a textbook that clearly states that voltage is a vector > (or otherwise--which I doubt) but It is surprising how little discussion of > these fundamentals there is, at least in the ones I've looked at so far. > Maybe this is part of the problem. > > Fred Your probably right Fred. Have you read Bearden's "22 Errors" stuff yet? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 20:01:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA07943; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:01:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:01:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3414D7ED.5073@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 22:00:30 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Wimhurst Machine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Vubwo3.0.zx1.ilB5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/575 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greetings all: I've been putting it off for several months, but have finally begun to build a wimhurst generator. Is there any suggestions any of you have on this? Kyle Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 21:18:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA08191; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 21:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 21:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3414EE3B.5E2E@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 23:35:39 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars References: <01BCBBFA.3FD6EF80@que2-p2.telepac.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-tuHZ3.0.u_1.dtC5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/576 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: António Vilela wrote: > Most of us recognize J.C. Maxwell as an authority on the matter, so I'll quote from his book: > " A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism", 3rd edition, > Art. 11 - "Meaning of the words Scalar and Vector." > > " One of the most important features of Hamilton's method is the division of quantities > into Scalars and Vectors. > A Scalar quantity is capable of being completely defined by a single numerical > specification. Its numerical value does not in anyway depend on the directions we assume > for the coordinate axes. > A Vector, or Directed quantity, requires for its definition three numerical specifications, > and these may most simply be understood as having reference to the directions of the > coordinate axes. > Scalar quantities do not involve direction. The volume of a geometrical figure, the mass > and the energy of a material body, the hydrostatical pressure at a point in a fluid, and > the potential at a point in space, are examples of scalar quantities. > A vector quantity has direction as well as magnitude, and is such that a reversal of its > direction reverses its sign. The displacement of a point, represented by a straight line > drawn from its original to its final position, may be taken as the typical vector quantity, > from which indeed the name Vector is derived. > The velocity of a body, its momentum, the force acting on it, an electric current, the > magnetization of a particle of iron, are instances of vector quantities. Note, "an electric current", ahh, but what about voltage then? A voltmeter displays "voltage", by using a know impednence to draw a current. This is part of why a voltmeter must have two connections, unlike an electroscope. Keep this in mind when reading Bearden's usage of the terms vector and scalar. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 22:36:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA17748; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:35:17 -0700 (PDT) From: PROTIEUS@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:33:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970909013322_1254428027@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: anti-gravity ..piston rocket belt ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"3sOj13.0.DL4.J0E5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/577 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: hello, i ordered the anti- gravity hover board from hovertech... you can get the plans for $20 from the www.hovertech.com write back if you have any questions Scotty From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 22:45:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA18968; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:44:34 -0700 (PDT) From: PROTIEUS@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:41:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970909014138_1649916669@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: anti-gravity ..piston rocket belt ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"VxBX-2.0.Fe4._8E5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/578 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: hello, no i donot i have the papers for them but no plans they run 695 for the complete kit with all the things you need.. but the cost is kinda..high From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 22:49:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA19711; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:47:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:47:57 -0700 (PDT) From: PROTIEUS@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:45:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970909014547_-830979074@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: anti-gravity ..piston rocket belt ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"nRh7y2.0.qp4.5CE5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/579 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: yes this is from tecknico.... it is really expensive but i would like this .. Scotty From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 8 22:58:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA21424; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:56:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709090556.WAA07937@germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: anti-gravity ..piston rocket belt ?? Resent-Message-ID: <"8fnPn1.0.eE5.ILE5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/580 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 01:33 AM 9/9/97 -0400, you wrote: >hello, i ordered the anti- gravity hover board from hovertech... > > >you can get the plans for $20 from the www.hovertech.com > > >write back if you have any questions > >Scotty Hi Scotty, I would be interested in hearing from you when you receive the unit and tell us how it works. Like how high and fast it goes and what type of fuel used. Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 01:20:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA21866; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:19:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:19:34 -0700 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:31:25 +1000 Message-Id: <199709091031.UAA11334@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Wimhurst Electrostatics Resent-Message-ID: <"8kdVA3.0.PL5.KQG5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/581 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:54 AM 9/1/97 -0700, you wrote: >Some one in the past sent me a link to an wimhurst and electrostatics page. If you are still out there could you send a steer again thanks >geoff > > and copy to Kyle Mcallister at stk@sunherald.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 01:31:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA24007; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:31:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:31:32 -0700 Message-ID: <341507A7.53E0FE6C@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:54:07 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: SMOT Kit Status (Gifts) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xctOz3.0.qs5.YbG5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/582 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, Forgot to include the list of the SMOT gifts to Jean-Louis, Epitaxy, Bill & Barry. Thanks to Jean-Louis for the reminder. Back to the grindstone. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 02:32:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA00247; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 02:32:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 02:32:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199709090932.CAA00834@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Absolute potential Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 02:39:03 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qavJF2.0.m3.aUH5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/583 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Folks, I came across a patent that might interest you if you have been following the thread about voltage and potential as vectors and scalars, and even if you haven't been... I suspect it has a lot to do with attempts to tap "earth energy" as it's sometimes called. It is at: http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4839581 Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 03:46:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA07658; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 03:46:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 03:46:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 03:46:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199709091046.DAA08863@big.aa.net> X-Sender: knuke@pop.aa.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@aa.net (Michael T Huffman) Subject: ALERT Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"BELK72.0.Nt1.6aI5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/584 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Listen up Bubbleheads, I just went to the Cincy Group Site check out their page to see what the price was for their cell. I have an external modem, and whenever I am online, I watch the lights to see when my computer is sending and receiving data. I have heard rumors from some hacker friends that Netscape has a bug which will allow someone to read and write to your harddisk, and I like to monitor the lights of my modem to make sure that that is not happening. Well, I was waiting for the picture of the copper flake to come across, and I noticed that my send data light was constantly on. It is never on except to acknowledge packets when receiving data. I hit the stop button on the Netscape control bar, and not only did the light continue to be lit, but the receive light also stayed on for some seconds _after the picture stopped coming across_. I quickly went to another site, and it behaved normally again. I got offline immediately, and brought up filemanager to find that at least 4 files had been altered including my bookmark file and 3 new files had been added. At least that's what I've found so far. The 3 new files contained the text "AT&T Bell Labs", "RSA Security,Inc." and "Netscape Version", along with a bunch of machine code. I don't know exactly what all this means, but I don't like it. Like I said earlier, I always monitor those lights, and this is the first time this has ever happened to me, and it just so happened to be on the Cincy Grp web site. Any ideas on what is going on here? -Knuke From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 04:14:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id DAA16573; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 03:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 03:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34152A05.7244E429@microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 20:20:45 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: SMOT "Rollaround" Plans & Schedule up X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8Yjso3.0.j24.ZmI5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/585 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, The initial SMOT "Rollaround" plans and project schedule are up. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 04:42:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA13316; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 04:41:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 04:41:44 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 07:39:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970909073958_467699780@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Subject: Poynting vector probe Resent-Message-ID: <"UMmnx3.0.sF3.sNJ5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/586 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 09/09/1997 11:48:20 , Fred Epps wrote : << Hi Folks, I came across a patent that might interest you if you have been following the thread about voltage and potential as vectors and scalars, and even if you haven't been... I suspect it has a lot to do with attempts to tap "earth energy" as it's sometimes called. It is at: http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4839581 Fred >> Thanks Fred, You may also see the patent : 4810954 : Poynting vector probe for measuring electrical power ------------------------------------------------------------------------ INVENTORS:Fam; Wagih Z., Halifax, Canada ABSTRACT: A new probe for measuring electric power flow from a source of supply to a load at high voltage and current, but at extremely low power factor is disclosed. The probe enables the direct measurement of electric power, in accordance with the Poynting theorem, by sensing the electric and magnetic fields associated with the high voltage and high current. at : http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4810954 I hope that this will interest you, Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 10:01:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA28659; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:01:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:01:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199709091701.KAA07218@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" , Subject: Re: Poynting vector probe Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:08:06 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nmPCa2.0.f_6.g3O5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/587 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jean-louis, all, > Thanks Fred, > > You may also see the patent : > > 4810954 : Poynting vector probe for measuring electrical power > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > INVENTORS:Fam; Wagih Z., Halifax, Canada > > ABSTRACT: A new probe for measuring electric power flow from a source of > supply to a load at high voltage and current, but at extremely low power > factor is disclosed. The probe enables the direct measurement of electric > power, in accordance with the Poynting theorem, by sensing the electric and > magnetic fields associated with the high voltage and high current. > > at : http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4810954 > > I hope that this will interest you, Yes, it is certainly interesting. I really need to crack the books on the Poynting vector... It is probably a coincidence, but W.Z. Fam is one of the few experts on parametric transformers and holds a patent on a parametric motor.. Fred > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 10:24:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA23221; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34159E7B.79E5@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 12:07:40 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ALERT References: <199709091046.DAA08863@big.aa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LXObd3.0.ig5.cBO5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/588 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Michael T Huffman wrote: > > Listen up Bubbleheads, > > I just went to the Cincy Group Site check out their page to see what the > price was for their cell. I have an external modem, and whenever I am > online, I watch the lights to see when my computer is sending and receiving > data. I have heard rumors from some hacker friends that Netscape has a bug > which will allow someone to read and write to your harddisk, and I like to > monitor the lights of my modem to make sure that that is not happening. If they have good enough equipment and software, they can tap any system. > Well, I was waiting for the picture of the copper flake to come across, and > I noticed that my send data light was constantly on. It is never on except > to acknowledge packets when receiving data. I hit the stop button on the > Netscape control bar, and not only did the light continue to be lit, but the > receive light also stayed on for some seconds _after the picture stopped > coming across_. I quickly went to another site, and it behaved normally again. > I got offline immediately, and brought up filemanager to find that at > least 4 files had been altered including my bookmark file and 3 new files > had been added. At least that's what I've found so far. The 3 new files > contained the text "AT&T Bell Labs", "RSA Security,Inc." and "Netscape > Version", along with a bunch of machine code. Send me a copy of those files via email attatchment. I can read some of that stuff and tell you what it is. > I don't know exactly what all > this means, but I don't like it. Like I said earlier, I always monitor > those lights, and this is the first time this has ever happened to me, and > it just so happened to be on the Cincy Grp web site. Any ideas on what is > going on here? -Knuke I get anonymous emails all the time. Even the air force has hounded me on what I'm doing. I simply told them it was none of their buisness. As for the anonymous files you're getting, watch out. It could be one of the following: 1. Government seeing what you're up to 2. If you're working on invetions, it could be corporational espionage 3. Cyberpunks/Cyberterrorists/Hackers causing various mischief and mayhem 4. Others trying to steal you're info out of pure meaness. Or give you a virus. If you send those files, I can do a virus check, also I would recommned that you search for hidden files in you're hard drive, or ones that are being updated severely. Kyle Mcallister. stk@sunherald.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 10:48:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA26046; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:29:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:29:25 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970909132517_-632875021@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: fepps@halcyon.com Subject: Re : Re: Poynting vector probe Resent-Message-ID: <"erSdi1.0.tM6.oTO5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/589 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 09/09/1997 19:01:58 , Fred Epps wrote : << Yes, it is certainly interesting. I really need to crack the books on the Poynting vector... It is probably a coincidence, but W.Z. Fam is one of the few experts on parametric transformers and holds a patent on a parametric motor.. Fred > >> Hi Fred, I suggest you to read : The Feynman "Lecture on physics" - ELECTROMAGNETISM - VOL 2 - by Addison-Wesly Publishing company - It is a very interesting book, you will find many informations about : How the energy flows really (S-Flow)...and also some interesting things like the kinetic momentum of the magnetic field.....and Barkhausen effet....etc... Friendly, Jean-Louis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 11:19:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA00910; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:05:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:05:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709091803.LAA12417@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" , Subject: Re: Re: Poynting vector probe Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:08:56 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bGcfP.0.6E.00P5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/590 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jean-louis, all, > Hi Fred, > > I suggest you to read : > > The Feynman "Lecture on physics" - ELECTROMAGNETISM - VOL 2 > - by Addison-Wesly Publishing company - > > It is a very interesting book, you will find many informations about : > > How the energy flows really (S-Flow)...and also some interesting things like > the kinetic momentum of the magnetic field.....and Barkhausen effet....etc... > Yes, I have this book, I will read those sections. Jean-louis, when you say "kinetic momentum of the magnetic field" are you referring to the reaction force that is supposed to exist in space so that action and reaction works for charges? I have some articles about this, including one unpublished one by Graham and Lahoz where they actually measure this momentum in the lab. I used to like Feynman, but I can't seem to let go of what he did to that poor inventor Papp... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 11:42:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA03941; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:30:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: SMOT "Rollaround" Plans & Schedule up Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 20:22:29 +0100 Message-Id: <19970909202229.195a6258.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"gP0Sw2.0.Sz.HNP5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/591 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Hi All, > >The initial SMOT "Rollaround" plans and project schedule are up. > >-- >Best Regards, > Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson > > Hi, ypi still have my name wrong there: Stefhan Hartman must be: Stefan Hartmann Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. P.S.: The new design with the half round track instead of U-Channel looks good ! > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 11:51:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA05726; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:42:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:42:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709091839.LAA29801@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Greg Watson" , "Free Energy" Subject: New Overunity Patents Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:45:13 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7Whk92.0.HP1.sXP5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/592 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Folks! I recently recieved a copy from Alexander Frolov of the 1996 St. Petersburg conference, "New Ideas In Natural Sciences", and included in it is a list of US overunity patents. On checking this list with Greg and my list on his site I discovered that there were many patents that did not overlap. I haven't examined all of these new patents yet, and I haven't taken the time to write down descriptions but I thought I would send the patent numbers out to you all to check out. Fred BTW the St. Petersburg proceedings are a fascinating document, almost 600 pages of research and ideas, most of which is unknown in the rest of the world. I've already discovered a few things I had no idea of, and I've only begun to read it. I strongly recommend getting a copy from Alexander, I believe he has only a few left... 3,913,004 5,288,336 5,101,632 4,622,510 2,982,261 4,595,843 3,368,141 4,595,852 4,831,299 4,249,096 3,610,971 4,806,834 4,709,323 4,210,859 4,945,273 1,974,483 2,949,550 3,187,206 4,883,977 4,007,001 4,652,771 4,748,311 3,022,430 3,018,394 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 12:09:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA19354; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:09:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:09:05 -0700 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:14:39 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall Sender: ekwall2@november To: "Kyle R. Mcallister" cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ALERT In-Reply-To: <34159E7B.79E5@sunherald.infi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"EBqu11.0.7k4.CxP5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/593 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: >> >>Michael T Huffman wrote: >>> >>> Listen up Bubbleheads, >>> --snip-- >>> I got offline immediately, and brought up filemanager to find that at >>> least 4 files had been altered including my bookmark file and 3 new files >>> had been added. At least that's what I've found so far. The 3 new files >>> contained the text "AT&T Bell Labs", "RSA Security,Inc." and "Netscape >>> Version", along with a bunch of machine code. >>the following: >> >>1. Government seeing what you're up to >>2. If you're working on invetions, it could be corporational espionage >>3. Cyberpunks/Cyberterrorists/Hackers causing various mischief and >>mayhem >>4. Others trying to steal you're info out of pure meaness. Or give you a >>virus. >> >>If you send those files, I can do a virus check, also I would recommned >>that you search for hidden files in you're hard drive, or ones that are >>being updated severely. >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>Kyle Mcallister. >>stk@sunherald.infi.net >> >>updated severly Check path C:\windows for any files called *.SWP this can grow as large as 12 megabyte or more while online (emm386.swp is *NOT* part of ANY BROWSER) and needs to be erased and a clean version of your browser reinstalled. My obsevations have been this SWP files mirrors ever-keystroke your doing on-line and will be parsed at the recieving server for credit data and pass-words etc.. It's a real bear to kill. even a blank file emm386.swp set to system mode and READ only is still overwritten on PC's Macs seem to be safe (i guess fewer hackers using them) good luck. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 12:47:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA12199; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:34:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:34:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709091932.MAA30092@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" , Subject: Re: Wimhurst Machine Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:39:19 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BCvrf2.0.Q-2.BJQ5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/594 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Kyle, Yes, get the book "Homemade Lightning" by Ford if you possibly can. It is in print and amazon.com should carry it. It is well worth the money (US $16.95?), full of practical construction tips and interesting tidbits, including antigravity experiments--I thought you'd like that..:-) BTW, there are a lot of lesser known rotary E/S generators around that are just as interesting. Some may even be easier to build... check out the E/s generator I found last night in my new list of overunity patents: http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4595852 BTW again, I still haven't read the article in Nexus mag about Bismuth antigravity. I am amazinlgy swamped with reading material right now, (and that's aside from my projects)-- not complaining you understand :-) Fred ---------- > From: Kyle R. Mcallister > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Wimhurst Machine > Date: Monday, September 08, 1997 10:00 PM > > Greetings all: > > I've been putting it off for several months, but have finally begun to > build a wimhurst generator. Is there any suggestions any of you have on > this? > > Kyle Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 13:26:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA15667; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:14:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall Sender: ekwall2@november To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [OFF TOPIC] Re: ALERT In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970909162757.00690f70@atlantic.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"r97141.0.bq3.RqQ5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/595 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Kurt Johmann wrote: >>Michael T Huffman (knuke@aa.net) writes: >> >>Check the settings of your browser and you will probably see that you >>have Java and/or Javascript enabled. >> >>As a test, you could, for example, change your browser options to disable >>Java and Javascript, and then revisit the Cincy site and watch you modem >>lights. >> >> I almost forgot, Last week I read an article in the paper that said that Netscape acknowleged this security breech and HAS FIXED IT! (in their newest version).. They gave credit to it's discovery to one of their youngest team members who found and isolated it. I went to www.microsoft.com to get a 'newest' version, and (sigh) it appears to be only for win95 and NT systems. I'm running win3.1 with browsers and on an older system. man I hate winDOZE.... It's like they finally (they SAY - until the next programmer changes a bit of code), Invented the screen door! and I'm setting here with a fly-swatter smacking all these flies (files). delete * delete ** delete ohhh two-fers.. I would love to hear the NAMES of other files you out there find that are part of this mess.. Thanks. If you have the C:\windows\emm386.swp file on your system. READ IT before you delete and you'll see ALL your private x-mas letters to mom and paths to areas you forgot about included.. Who the H*ll wants ALL this stuff anyway?? I Don't like it all, either! One nice thing is I only run iexplorer or netscape when absolutly necassary... the old tried and true ascii that the net was first set up on is still the way to go. We used RFC### back then and NOT 'one company' controlling 'Software-features' they say you gotta have! What we need is one-good programmer to make one BIG Fly-swatter! [Off Topic] sorry for the band-width -=se=-- ps both iexplorer & netscape allow these 'cookies!' (script) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 14:20:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA04052; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:19:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:19:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199709092212.RAA05116@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: Absolute potential Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:00:15 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dBTtI2.0.7_.HrR5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/598 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > I came across a patent that might interest you if you have been > following the thread about voltage and potential as vectors and scalars, > and even if you haven't been... I suspect it has a lot to do with attempts > to tap "earth energy" as it's sometimes called. Thanks Fred! I suggest that everyone should look at the extraordinarily weird set of references in this thing. Highlights: Tesla, Brown, Eastlund, Bearden(!), Heironymous(!!), Hodowanec(!!!), surface barrier wave transducer(?!?) "I don't want the world -- I just want your half." --T.M.B.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 14:20:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA04019; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:19:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:19:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199709092212.RAA05130@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: , Cc: Subject: Re: [OFF TOPIC] Re: ALERT Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:12:23 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"r59Za3.0.b-.5rR5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/597 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > From: Steve Ekwall > If you have the C:\windows\emm386.swp file on your system. READ IT before > you delete and you'll see ALL your private x-mas letters to mom and paths > to areas you forgot about included.. Who the H*ll wants ALL this stuff > anyway?? I Don't like it all, either! What the hell?! I don't know how Windows 3.1 handles it, since I never used the stupid thing, but under Windows 95 a .SWP file is a swap file, produced by the virtual memory system. If you want to disable VM, so be it, but I'd like to see where you got the idea that somebody was uploading your swap file automatically. As for the filed being downloaded to your system automatically, yes, they're probably Java files. But they're also probably harmless, just annoying. (Like you, I don't know where anybody got the idea to put all this irrelevant fancy animation into their web sites just for aesthetics. It's a major time waster. Perhaps they have more money than brains, and should buy us all T1 connections or something...) "I don't want the world -- I just want your half." --T.M.B.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 14:24:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA22280; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BCBD6C.148E02A0@que1-p6.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:02:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBD6C.14972A60" Resent-Message-ID: <"a8lFg3.0._R5.BiR5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/596 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBD6C.14972A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Bob, Bob Shannon wrote: >> The velocity of a body, its momentum, the force acting on it, an = electric current, the=20 >> magnetization of a particle of iron, are instances of vector = quantities. > >Note, "an electric current", ahh, but what about voltage then? > >A voltmeter displays "voltage", by using a know impednence to draw a >current. This is part of why a voltmeter must have two connections, >unlike an electroscope. > I knew you would be falling for this :-)) Ok then, what about voltage? Well, I was going to answer to this but then I found a good web site = that explains it well enough. Please check at: http://maxwell.byu.edu/~spencerr/websumm122/index.html Most notably chapters 25 and 27 will be of interest to this question. = The "Electric Current" concept in chapter 27 is not very good, but it will give an idea. I will try, however, to give an explanation of these things. In an oversimplification, I'll say that there are two "currents" and two = "voltages". There is a vector current that is the total charge flow crossing a given surface.That current will be = proportional to the E-field in that surface. This E-field is measured in [V/m] so is akin to "voltage". But if we define a "current tube" as a region in space delimited by = three surfaces, two cross-sections and a "tube" (note that the tube is defined as a surface not crossed by any charges), = then we find that the net charge flow along the tube is another current (scalar one) that is a function of the potential = difference between the two cross-sections (which is the line-integral of the E-field on a line along the "tube"). = This is what I understand as being voltage. Maybe this is the cause for such confusion? Sorry about the "current tube" anacronism, but it is still a good = picture of things (and applies well to the circuit wire).=20 >Keep this in mind when reading Bearden's usage of the terms vector and >scalar. Of course. I would not mistake his manners for his scientific value and even = suspect that Bearden would not use the correct definitions. 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I knew what I wanted must affect a compass but last weeks messages about brushless dc motors got me thinking and the statement "I believe your reference to reversing the field comes from Adam's motor. It is true, in that case, the that the field does reverse. This reversal is caused by the influence of the rotor's magnet upon the coils ferrous core. This point is not well understood." By setting up 2 coils separated by a couple feet and connected together with wire and placing a compass near one coil. Now a magnet brought near the coil without the compass will cause the coil 2 feet away to pull the compass needle and then it will settle back to the north position. Removing the magnet from the coil will cause the needle to be deflected back an almost equall amount before going back to north.(This is only 3 or 4 degrees) Now by wiring the magnetic coils in the motor so they are in opposite pairs (in a 6 coil motor this would make it 3 pairs) and placing diodes between the pairs of coils one coil will allways be the power coil and the other the repulsing coil.This will eliminate sensors and switches as the pulsing will be automatic as the spinning magnets pass over the power coil. This is the beginning of my theory now to get off my butt and build it. I am a mechanical guy so if any of you electrical guys can set me straight on why this won't work I would appreciate it. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 16:14:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA00306; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:14:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:14:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3415D69A.8CCA1237@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:37:06 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Re: SMOT "Rollaround" Plans & Schedule up X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ruXfE.0.g4.PXT5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/601 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scudder, Henry J. wrote: > > Greg > Please indicate the complete URL needed to find a particular item. You > have so much stuff on your web pages, that it takes a long time of surfing > around to find anything. > Hank Scudder Its at : Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/smotkitresults.html >From the Home page its just 1) Energy Projects 2) SMOT 3) Smot Kits & Order status -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 16:34:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA11223; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3415D59D.4EAB3D57@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:32:53 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server Freenrg Subject: Re: SMOT "Rollaround" Plans & Schedule up X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199709091536.IAA29994@germany.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7OcWp2.0.Cl2.ZVT5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/600 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > The Rollaround design looks good and simple! What is the average rollaround > time or number of times it completes the course before it come to a stop, > that you've got todate? > > Best Regards, > Michael Randall HI Michael, Its only a design as of today. A LOT of testing on the individual elements has been done. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 16:39:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA04057; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:39:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:39:43 -0700 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709092212.RAA05116@csrlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:39:29 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Absolute potential Resent-Message-ID: <"M5Xl1.0.D_.-uT5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/602 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Thanks Fred! I second that! >I suggest that everyone should look at the extraordinarily weird set of >references in this thing. Highlights: Tesla, Brown, Eastlund, >Bearden(!), Heironymous(!!), Hodowanec(!!!), surface barrier wave >transducer(?!?) and thanks, Jim! I hadn't noticed the reference to Hodowanec, yet. I'm still going thru the list of referenced patents, which is very interesting in itself, esp #3868074 (Hill, Method and apparatus for attitude detection and stabilization of an airborne vehicle using the electrostatic field in the earth's atmosphere) and #4055798 (Kato, Rotary electric field intensity measuring device). I'm afraid to look at #4691264 (Schaffhausser et al, Static amplification stun gun) ;-) ... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 18:33:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA22164; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 18:33:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 18:33:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199709100133.SAA19032@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Absolute potential Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 18:40:07 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0GxA22.0.DQ5.TZV5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/603 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Ralph, Jim, all, You ain't seen nothing yet.. wait until you start going through the list of patents I put up! Especially check out: http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4595843 http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4595852 http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4210859 http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4945273 http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4652771 these are all interesting patents for various reasons... Fred >Thanks Fred! > > I second that! > > >I suggest that everyone should look at the extraordinarily weird set of > >references in this thing. Highlights: Tesla, Brown, Eastlund, > >Bearden(!), Heironymous(!!), Hodowanec(!!!), surface barrier wave > >transducer(?!?) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 22:26:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA22412; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:25:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:25:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 21:38:16 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Project Take Over (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XbmLS.0.2U5.CzY5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/605 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: see below. This person isn't on freenrg-l .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 19:46:09 -0500 From: "Schatzlein Saddle Shop, Inc." To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Project Take Over ------ Wanted ----- Some One To Take Over Project Free-energy All Magnetic Power System Project All components in and paid for -- based on Nikola Tesla Invention Need Electrical/Physic/Electronic Engineer Contact John - 612-455-2225 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 22:37:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA22813; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709100449.VAA04544@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" Subject: test Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 21:56:55 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Yccco.0.Da5.hvY5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/604 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: test From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 22:47:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA25287; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34162542.7A6F@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:42:42 -0700 From: Ryan X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Some questions about Over Unity fourmulas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_qTxS3.0.0B6.q4Z5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/606 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: hi its me Ryan Parrish (grape boy), now I have a seriouse question about the theroys of over unity ( pardon my spelling ) #1 What would be the ( if any ) formula for finding out if you have discovered free enegry? Like the other night I was plaing around with electro-plating and found using nickle and copper, after I shut off the power ( apx. 9v ) the copper contuninied to emit hydrogen gas ( for those that dont know the prosses produces hydrogen ) for about 18 - 25 min. AFTER the power was turned off. Was my electrolite solution of viniger and salt holding a charge? OR was there just hydrogen absorbed into the copper?. So what would be the formula for finding out if free enegry has been discovered, like I put 12v in but that 12v produces enough gas to run a generater at say 15v???? Sorry if I have worded this bad but being in High School my brain just isnt up to you guys level yet ;) #2 This is about the ethics of free-enegry. If it was discovered as a viable means to produce power what would be the right thing to do? A.) Spread the word to every one through the internet so every one can no longer be hounded by " The Man " to pay for electicy, eventuly creating world peace and stoping wars over resoures'es???? B.) Kepp it to yourself and make millions of $$, probley eventuly crashing the world trade market because the fules we depend on would be as worthless as lead???( Could you imanage what would happen if some one found a way for turning lead into gold to work..havoc.. ) Well thats all I will hound you guys with for now, my brain has been wondering on about free enegry to long, and not enough on Home Work ;) Ryan Parrish parrish@ix.netcom.com ICQ: 1815313 Milk Man...... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 9 23:07:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA32461; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:07:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:07:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 00:13:05 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall Sender: ekwall2@november Reply-To: Steve Ekwall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [OFF TOPIC] Re: ALERT In-Reply-To: <199709092212.RAA05130@csrlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"63i-k.0.5x7.CaZ5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/607 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote: >>I don't know how Windows 3.1 handles it, since I never used the stupid >>thing, but under Windows 95 a .SWP file is a swap file, produced by the >>virtual memory system. If you want to disable VM, so be it, but I'd >>like to see where you got the idea that somebody was uploading your >>swap file automatically. >>"I don't want the world -- I just want your half." >> --T.M.B.G. You can't have my half without a fight for it (you ,you democrate :) Jim, *I got the idea from watching my computer work. *I got the idea from having built my own systems and knowing what the bus-drivers do and the i/o ports do & the speeds they are running at do. *I got the idea, because I too am a RX TX modem led watcher from 1979 using 110/300 baud. *I got the idea because I've written hardware access code and KNOW what makes a drive light light-up and what makes an RX or TX modem light flash and HOW to turn them on and turn them OFF or LOOP 'em forever if you like. checksums, handshaking & protocal! *I got the idea because having started on front loading binary flip-switched 3 story computer at FSU.. taught me Tight Tight CODE is for the most part the best CODE (*Look Ma NO HOLES*) 64k <--READ "64K" is all that was needed to send our first astronaut around the earth. (admittadly that was the biggest & best we had then) BUT Shadow Memory and ROM memory extension are a playing field of mine, AND IF ANYONE messes with ONE BIT of it I want to know about it! (screw this 'vertural memory'stuff') if their gonna mess with my autoexec.bat and config.sys WITHOUT ASKING! GOOD CODE will make a ~TMP(swp) file if the data size requires, But GOOD CODE Also ERASES IT'S when it through..it doesn't take over 1/3 of the hard drive with names, numbers and data that I didn't ask it to AND STAY THERE! (emm386.swp) *I got this idea because this is still a small system, but a reliable workhorse for all my needs. I hit the NET with 20 meg FREE (enough for me for the last 4 years!) when I get back and clear My RFC "cache" (grrr) I better have 20 meg STILL FREE. When I see 6-7 Meg Free - something is new and I look for it. winDOZE3.1 Doesn't have a *.SWP (my system (sigh) couldn't have super-extended(vertual memory) or whatever you call it if it wanted to... The *ONLY* Time this file Appears is in cerfing the NET user either Iexplore or Netscape and only at certain servers. Time was roughly about the time of applets being introduced (cookies as it were) *None RFC approved I wish to add! (Yes, I have a 200mhz multi-Giga byte piece of cr*p at the office.. that won't even let you get OUT of winDOZE95 without tying n meg's of unrelated unnecessary files (in case you don't know how to find your editor without an ICON). Small (by todays standards) 40 Meg is 3,000 x times larger than that FSU system. and my first OSBORNE 64 <-- Read 64K <--- powerful enough to orbit a man. Using CP/M that's Pre-DOS for you newbies out there, YES there was Life Before MicroSoft! (screw DOS too while we're at it) CP/M Already HAD SHADOW MEMORY Capabilities for those of you that think vertual memory is the hottest thing now. We Wrote & peek'd and Poked EACH BYTE by hand. <--read BYTE not Block, not sector, not K, not meg, not Geg...etc.) I hand wrote a Zbbs Program with Bucky Carr that allowed this two disk (5 1/4) Osborne to be one of the first FREE BBS in Denver and It ran 24 hours a day with hundreds of users from 1979-1988 ONLY Going Down or getting stuck when the Power Company lost it's lines! This system - lectronic ocksmith - we had names back then instead of just server ties, DID EXACTLY WHAT WHERE DOING HERE.. IT WAS E-MAIL -stacked sealed and delivered. (albeit one caller (phone line donated by me) at a time!) --All editing Bells & Whistles WS (WordStar) was 14K <--READ 14K --All Phone Answering Login and update user(s) Bye Program (Zbbs) was 4k <--READ 4K --All assymbly Programs to make this work ASM and data files was 35K <--READ 35K (but these files WERE REQUIRED (i guess if you cared who was calling your system & when) THAT IS ALL :) NOWDAYS you can't even turn your system ON unless you have MEGA_MEGA Memeory, AND Giga-Giga STORAGE FOR CRAP FILES I KNOW THAT YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE ARE FOR OR WHAT THEY DO!! House-cleaning?? Do you Keep 'em? do you Delete 'em .. Where'd they even COME FROM?? It's gone sloppy, sloopy, Kludgy... H*ll, every program you get nowdays brings everyother program with it! *I got this idea because Because I KNOW what a MEGA-BYTE is and I'll NEVER WRITE that much in My Visit's to the WEB..But for SOME REASON, "THEY" want me to Receive MEGA Bytes of unsolicted stuff, AND NOW, Are wanting MY Directory/Files BACK! (READ--> not without a fight!) these are MY files! ----------------------------------- Jim, (sorry to rant & rave, BUT I do know what I'm Talking about!) as John E. Steck wrote: "Strength is irrelevent - Resistance is futile" I'll add I am being assimilated (begrudgingly so you kludgers!!) ----------------------------------- If you have the SPACE (mega-Giga-Zega) then you can ignore this. If you don't care who,what,when,where,why someone look at all your files to mom then you can ignore this. Netscape already said "opps" we found it, it's fixed (guilty as charged!), BUT you NOW NEED only the Biggest and Best system to run the FIX.. (sound familiar?) ----------------------------------- finally (yea right), I added some of the 'history' of systems as I know there are some vortexian or freenrg users out there that HAD or Still have a KAYPRO or OSBORNE or Teltax(?) Texcom(?) someone will remind me (pre-MSDOS). (it had a membrane keypad as I remember - ahead of it's Time!) Take half a mans system AND HE WILL NOTE IT! (my half Jim! :) Leave it there (for future exportation to parts unknown) containing info that is NOT related to anything except YOUR system, and I want to know WHY! --------- Watching my hd/Rx Tx lights since '79 Cleaning House (system) since day 1 -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 01:34:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA16189; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 01:34:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 01:34:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3416570E.C3420976@ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:15:10 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Scans Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nSUZY2.0.my3.wjb5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/608 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I said that I would do some scans when I got round to it, Well here they are: http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~antigrav From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 03:23:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id DAA15986; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 03:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 03:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34166FC9.C7D35D0D@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:30:41 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server NeoTech , List Server Vortex , List Server Newman Subject: New OU Patents UP. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Jw2Pf.0.cv3.f8d5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/609 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I have updated the patent list on my site. Included are Fred's new list, Jean-Louis and others. The new ones are marked : US> Will list Inventors & Subject soon. ANY MORE?????????????? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 03:44:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA26773; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 03:44:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 03:44:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970910051545.00851d80@pop.flash.net> X-Sender: jd2@pop.flash.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 05:15:45 -0500 To: Steve Ekwall , freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: JD Subject: Re: [OFF TOPIC] Re: ALERT Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: References: <199709092212.RAA05130@csrlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Ae0ik3.0.EY6.5ed5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/610 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:13 AM 9/10/97 -0600, Steve Ekwall wrote: >On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote: > > > I added some of the 'history' of systems as I know there are some >vortexian or freenrg users out there that HAD or Still have a KAYPRO >or OSBORNE or Teltax(?) Texcom(?) someone will remind me (pre-MSDOS). >(it had a membrane keypad as I remember - ahead of it's Time!) >--------- >Watching my hd/Rx Tx lights since '79 >Cleaning House (system) since day 1 > >-=se=- > It was the Timex/Sinclair Z80, I believe. It came with about 2k onboard, and had keys for peek and poke, along with some strange little box-drawing characters. (cassette drive optional) JD From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 05:16:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA22986; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 05:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 05:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 05:01:58 -0700 X-Intended-For: Message-Id: <199709101201.FAA18133@big.aa.net> X-Sender: knuke@pop.aa.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@aa.net (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Some questions about Over Unity fourmulas Resent-Message-ID: <"xAEFG.0.3d5.poe5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/611 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hey Grape Boy, Before you blow yourself up or drive the rest of this group nuts, do me a favor. Read up on what you are doing BEFORE you do it. What you are playing with is called electrochemistry and it is deadly. Quite a few good people have written a large number of good books about this subject, and if you would take the time to read some of the basic ones, you wouldn't have to ask these incredible questions. You also don't describe your experiment well enough for anyone to answer your questions properly. Which metal was the anode and which was the cathode? Do you even know? Is your electrolytic cell open or closed? If it is closed, what is it made of? Do you have a pressure gauge on it? Here are some of the dangers that I know of, and I've never even done an electrochemical experiment. 1. Hydrogen is extremely reactive. The slightest spark will cause it to explode. Temperatures above room temp. will cause it to explode - the heat from a regular light bulb for example. Even slightly focused sunlight will cause it to explode. 2. Hydrogen is difficult to contain. It leaks through almost everything - rubber ballons, plastic containers, glassware, even most metal containers can't hold it. Don't even try to collect the stuff, until you know a lot more about it. 3. Turning things on and off causes sparks. How close is your switch to the cell? How close is your switch to your battery? Is there anything in the room that turns itself on and off automatically - thermostat, refrigerator motor, battery charger, breaker switch? Those are things that produce small sparks that people either don't know about to begin with or forget about until it is too late. 4. Is your battery a wet cell? A gell cell? Are you discharging the battery quickly? Are recharging the battery? Both actions can produce enough Hydrogen alone to cause an explosion in an unventilated area. I know because I've seen it happen too many times to real engineers and scientists. Some of them are DEAD as a result. 5. To answer your incredible question, yes, Hydrogen is absorbed into the CATHODE, and will come back out after the electricity is turned off. Some metals will hold a great deal more Hydrogen than others, so you might want to find which metals those are. Nickel is one of those metals, but you don't say if it's the anode or the cathode. Some of these metals have been reported to initiate nuclear fusion reactions. Do you have a radiation monitor nearby? 6. Many metal/electrolyte/electrical power combinations will produce chemical reactions that produce deadly toxic gases. Do you know what they are? There are too many for me to list. 7. As for your microwave experiments, I won't even begin to tell you the number of things that can go wrong. To conclude, my advice to you is this. Quit playing around. Grow up. Keep reading this list, go to the library, search the literature that is available on the Internet. There is a TON of stuff you need to know before you can even begin to experiment safely. Your educational system has failed to teach you how to spell, and it wouldn't surprise me if you have problems with math as well, but you can overcome these obstacles by reading. That much you seem to be able to do. You can learn a great deal by reading without having to spend a dime or putting your future at risk. It is what intelligent people do. I hope you see the wisdom in this. If you absolutely have to do hands on experiments, there are a number of them that you can do safely. Bill Beaty can probably help you find some that are suited to your age and knowledge level. Please don't think that I am trying to discourage you from pursuing science and knowledge. I am encouraging you to be smart about it. It is obvious that the world is in desperate need of people with a better understanding of Nature in order to fix some of the problems that have been created by the unwise decisions of the past. Free energy is just one problem. We have a million other that will challenge even the best educated of minds. We need all the educated minds that we can get. What we don't need are dead or injured kids. Spend your time reading, learning to use mathmatics and logic, and learning from other peoples' mistakes. Do experiments that are suited your knowledge level, and let us old farts do the more dangerous stuff. I am not kidding around when I tell you that things you are "playing" with are not toys. A kid with his hands or head blown off is no good to anybody, and only adds more pain to an already depressing world. I would much rather see a kid that worked hard to overcome the obstacles of a bad education or poverty or whatever your situation is, and became a real, qualified scientist or doctor or someone who lived a long and healthy life and was able to make a number of longlasting contributions to society. This is the path of wisdom, and it starts by reading. -Knuke From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 05:58:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA27797; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 05:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 05:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34169499.12F249AA@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:07:45 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Patent List ....... Help Wanted X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"svRRZ2.0.9o6.zQf5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/612 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I have filled out the Inventors & Invention details on the just listed patents. Still have a few patents with NO Inventor or Invention data. Any help????????????? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 06:03:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA28389; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 05:51:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 05:51:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <341695BF.4491AC37@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:12:39 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: New Homopolar Design X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Blhas2.0.Ux6.TVf5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/613 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, Suggest those interested in Homopolar design should checkout : US> 4831299 Hayasaka Homopole Type AC Generator on the patent list. Seems to have a valid method for reducing driving torque. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 06:45:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA14479; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:45:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:45:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970910073517.00b84ac4@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:35:17 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: [OFF TOPIC] Re: ALERT In-Reply-To: References: <199709092212.RAA05130@csrlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6Uhhj.0.7Y3.cHg5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/615 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi ya! I'm loath to continue an off-topic thread, but....chill, fellow mad scientists, it ain't that big a deal. (Gee, Steve, just since 79'? Is this list populated by computing neophytes only? Do you remember magnetic drum memory, punching hollerith cards...and computers built from discrete transistors. I do. :P ) I think this issue is overblown...if THEY want your particulars...well, you're screwed. However...it's easy enough to put a line in autoexec.bat that deletes netscape.hst, and you can disable cookie. While you're at it, find your virtual memory settings menu and set the swap file to _temporary_. Of course you should then surf the iffy sites first, before there is anything important saved in the temporary swap file. Or better still, hack the OS and rename the .swp file. (I like permanent virtual memory, it makes boot up much faster). **The way the bug works...the person has to know the name of the file they are looking for before hand. Please consider the implications of this requirement. It makes the security breach a lot less troubling.** Best Regards, JD ------------------------------------------------------------ The beasts of the wild Will be led by a child And I will be changed from the thing that I am. -Nelson Algren E-mail to: mules@palacenet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 06:57:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id GAA04593; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3416A1F1.EAA79A84@microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:04:41 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server NeoTech , List Server Newman , List Server Vortex Subject: OverUnity Prizes X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vEtLy1.0.e71.mGg5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/614 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I wish to add a new section featuring sites offering real prize money for the demonstration of a working OverUnity device to my sites link list. If you have such a site or know of one, please email me the address. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 07:13:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id HAA06602; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709101403.KAA21637@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Re: Poynting vector probe Resent-Message-ID: <"862UA1.0.3d1.TWg5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/616 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:08 AM 9/9/97 -0700, you wrote: >I used to like Feynman, but I can't seem to let go of what he did to that >poor inventor Papp... > >Fred > >What did he do to Pap? Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 07:13:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA20243; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:13:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:13:29 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199709091932.MAA30092@mail1.halcyon.com> References: Conversation <199709091932.MAA30092@mail1.halcyon.com> with last message <199709091932.MAA30092@mail1.halcyon.com> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Mike Connolly" Subject: Re: Wimhurst Machine Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 09:14:51 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cZotT3.0.Ay4.8ig5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/617 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: does any one have an address and/or phone number for amazon in order to get the book "Homemade Lightning" by Ford? thanks G'DAY! Mike Connolly Bulk Feed Tank Product Manager GRAIN SYSTEMS, INC. P.O. BOX 20 Assumption, IL 62510 PH: 217.226.4421 FAX: 217.226.4420 E-MAIL: mconnolly@grainsystems.com ---------- > Hi Kyle, > > Yes, get the book "Homemade Lightning" by Ford if you possibly can. It is > in print and amazon.com should carry it. It is well worth the money (US > $16.95?), full of practical construction tips and interesting tidbits, > including antigravity experiments--I thought you'd like that..:-) > BTW, there are a lot of lesser known rotary E/S generators around that are > just as interesting. Some may even be easier to build... > check out the E/s generator I found last night in my new list of overunity > patents: From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 07:37:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA23748; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:37:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:37:21 -0700 Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <9709100936.ZM13694@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:36:47 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Mike Connolly" "Re: Wimhurst Machine" (Sep 10, 9:28am) References: Conversation <199709091932.MAA30092@mail1.halcyon.com> with last message X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wimhurst Machine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"EA0us2.0.uo5.V2h5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/618 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 10, 9:28am, Mike Connolly wrote: > does any one have an address and/or phone number for amazon > in order to get the book "Homemade Lightning" by Ford? http://www.amazon.com It is an online book seller. If you are not web savy order it through a local book store. -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 09:46:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA14773; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:45:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:45:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199709101644.JAA01317@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Patent List ....... Help Wanted Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:51:54 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yk6Xe.0.gc3.Fwi5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/619 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Greg, Patent numbers 1974483 2949550 3018394 3022430 3187206 Are all the patents issued to Thomas Townsend Brown. There should be some information about them at the T.T. Brown website, whose URL I've forgotten. 2982261 McClintock I believe this is an electrostatic generator, if memory serves. 3368141 Subieta-Garron ?? I will check these in the patent abstracts and let you know. Fred > Still have a few patents with NO Inventor or Invention data. > > Any help????????????? > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 11:06:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA29236; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:05:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:05:25 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709101201.FAA18133@big.aa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:44:42 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Some questions about Over Unity fourmulas Resent-Message-ID: <"pkBAd3.0.e87.Z5k5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/621 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Hey Grape Boy, > > ...(deleted to save band width) >This is the path of wisdom, and it starts by reading. -Knuke Amen to what Knuke says. By reading you can explore all the gifts humanity has to offer... Not only science, but practical wisdom, the inner awakening of your own consciousness, and all the other vital stuff that "The Man" leaves out of public education. Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 11:12:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA07926; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:51:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: [OFF TOPIC] Re: ALERT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970910073517.00b84ac4@palacenet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9HvRc.0.lx1.Oyj5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/620 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Jack DeMule wrote: > Hi ya! > > > I'm loath to continue an off-topic thread, > but....chill, fellow mad scientists, it ain't > that big a deal. > > (Gee, Steve, just since 79'? Is this list populated by > computing neophytes only? Do you remember magnetic > drum memory, punching hollerith cards...and > computers built from discrete transistors. I do. :P ) > My first "minicomputer" experience was in 1974 with a PDP 8 and a PDP 11/15 (8-bit machines). We wrote the programs in assembler and punched them on those ol' Hollerith cards and then had them converted into machine language and punched on paper tapes (on a DEC-10). Then we bootstrapped the initialization into the PDP on the toggle switches on the front in order to read the paper tapes, which it then did (hopefully the machine got it right the first time!) [usually not.] For the project we were working on, the output data was punched onto paper tape by the PDP machine and taken back to an old G-20 machine (talk about discrete transistors!) and transferred to magnetic tape. We had to keep rewriting the data sections to different areas of the magnetic tape every couple weeks as sections of it got worn out from frequent use. Bring back memories for anyone? :-) Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 11:50:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA03954; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:48:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:48:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199709101848.LAA09288@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Some questions about Over Unity fourmulas Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:54:40 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZaOx12.0.cz._jk5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/622 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Michael, I sure am glad you weren't around when I started getting interested in science! although your advice about hydrogen was undoubtably good, although overblown, the arrogant, insulting, and patronizing manner in which you expressed it just about insures one of two results: 1) The young MAN will quit the list, and possibly science altogether. 2) He will ignore your admittedly good concrete advice. I seem to recall you did this before, jumping on a young experimenters case and going into a rant. I let it pass that time-- as it happened others didn't and expressed their contrary views. I have NEVER made a critical comment on the list but it seems to be justified in this case. BTW, every high school in the country does electrolysis experiments without blowing themselves up. It was an experiment included in my Edmund scientific kit I got when I was, what maybe 12 years old. > Hey Grape Boy, TOTALLY uncalled for! > > Before you blow yourself up or drive the rest of this group nuts, He is not driving anyone nuts except you. > Quit playing around. Grow up. . Your educational system has failed > to teach you how to spell, and it wouldn't surprise me if you have problems > with math as well, but you can overcome these obstacles by reading. That > much you seem to be able to do. . Why don't you attack the other quite intelligent list denizens who don't know how to spell, or are too busy to bother? It is what > intelligent people do. Do experiments that are suited your knowledge level, and let us > old farts do the more dangerous stuff. I'm sure you're comments were intended to save the young MAN some imagined injury, but you have done him far greater injury than what you have saved him from. Grow up yourself! Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 12:11:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA17285; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34170A71.2F14@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:00:33 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: New theory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WWSTV3.0.zD4.k_k5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/623 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greetings: I was watching a television program last night about Einsteins theory of relativity, and found some areas in which there is too much assumption and not enough proof. Such as: Along a railroad track, two poles are positioned 50 feet apart. A center post is placed precisely centered between the poles. At this instant, lightning strikes both poles at the same time, while a stationary observer is watching both poles with a right-angle mirror. He sees the lightning strike at the same time on each pole. Now to throw in something troublesome: The same thing happens, but a train is moving along the tracks, and the observer is on the train. Holding his right angle mirror, he watches both poles. At the instant the observer reaches the center pole, the lightning flashes. He sees the first pole get hit first (assuming he can see super-small time intervals), and then the pole behind him get struck. Einstien and friends say: Time slowed down relative to the earth for the traveller. I say: Light from the pole behind took a little more time to catch up with the moving train. No time changes. Here is where I believe Einstein made the mistake of stating that time is relative, and that lightspeed is impossible to overcome, or you will travel through time. Time according to Einstein is relative, so time would reverse, and you could meet yourself in te past BEFORE you left earth. But what if time is absolute? There certainly is no proof against it, and there is much for it. You would travel as normally as you ride in a car. Timetravel would not happen. The light catching up would simply be an optical illusion. Theory: Time is not bendable. IT DOES NOT EXIST. It is simply the properties of space at one instance. FTL motion is possible, if we overcome the mass problem. The ether is a preffered reference frame for all observers. Time travel and Closed Timelike curves (CTC's) are impossible, as an irresolvible paradox would occur that would prevent you from inventing the time machin in the first place (more on this later). Light is neither a wave or particle. It is a quanta of energy embedded in the ZPF. Anyone who would like to comment or add to this is welcome to. Knowledge is for everyone. Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 13:02:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA17591; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:00:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:00:59 -0700 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709102000.NAA05833@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Poynting vector probe -Patents Resent-Message-ID: <"T8Aq33.0.gI4.vnl5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/625 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >On 09/09/1997 11:48:20 , Fred Epps wrote : > ><< Hi Folks, > > I came across a patent that might interest you if you have been > following the thread about voltage and potential as vectors and scalars, > and even if you haven't been... I suspect it has a lot to do with attempts > to tap "earth energy" as it's sometimes called. > > It is at: > > http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4839581 Very interesting! Does anyone see how this detector works? Specifically, if the charge density is changed inside a Faraday cage, a voltage is induced on a probe insulated electrode. That I can see. But he stated the charge density is changed by changing the volume with a piston. Does this mean that charge is dispersed throughout the volume and that "fluid" can be compressed, like shrinking a plate of a charged capacitor? If charge was only on the electrode/cage, changing the volume wouldn't affect the charge there? Am still thinking of the derived scale factor (by calibration with several voltage sources) used to determine the "absolute" potential (e.g. earth voltage). P.s. Did Hieronymous live over 1000 years ago, how can he have a U.S. patent? (another one ? :-)) >You may also see the patent : > >4810954 : Poynting vector probe for measuring electrical power >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >INVENTORS:Fam; Wagih Z., Halifax, Canada > >ABSTRACT: A new probe for measuring electric power flow from a source of >supply to a load at high voltage and current, but at extremely low power >factor is disclosed. The probe enables the direct measurement of electric >power, in accordance with the Poynting theorem, by sensing the electric and >magnetic fields associated with the high voltage and high current. > Is this unusual? It appears to be a toroid transformer to measure current and a capacitive divider to measure voltage. Is the new implementation the capacitive divider vs. resistive to measure voltage? Or the coaxial arrangement to work at higher frequencies?? Of course the voltage and current have to be multiplied together keeping their phase to determine power, which the electronics can do. (I had to give up on this one when the data rate dropped to 1 byte/second) -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 13:02:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA17554; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:00:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:00:53 -0700 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:00:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709102000.NAA05815@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Wimhurst Machine Resent-Message-ID: <"_nubf3.0.4I4.qnl5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/624 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:39 PM 9/9/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Kyle, > >Yes, get the book "Homemade Lightning" by Ford if you possibly can. Another book that's interesting is "Electrical Instrument-Making for Amateurs", by S. R. Bottoms. It was written in 1888 and reprinted by Lindsay Publications. It is interesting haw people built stuff without electric outlets, drills, soldering irons (used an alcohol flame to heat it instead), etc. If you needed a battery, you built it! There are several electrostatic machines described rhat came before the Wimshurst and you can see how they developed into it. I actually started to build a Holtz machine (only one rotating wheel and 2 segments, the other is fixed), but had some mech. problems. Another book I saw recently was on DIROD machines. If I remember right, instead of conducting segments on a disk, conductive cylinders were mounted axially around the edge of a disk. Other electrodes at varying spacings, "influenced" the charge separation as the disk and cylinders rotated. These may be referenced in "Homemade Lightning" -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 13:02:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA17608; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:01:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:01:01 -0700 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:00:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709102000.NAA05795@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: example of voltage as a scalar (B.B. Scalars} Resent-Message-ID: <"LoN0k3.0.0J4.ynl5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/626 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello Fred and everyone, Fred Epps wrote: >Don't get too frustrated, Bob, the interchange has been exceedingly educational >for those of us basically watching from the sidelines. I am looking for a >textbook that clearly states that voltage is a vector (or otherwise--which I >doubt) but It is surprisingly how little discussion of these fundamentals >there is, The text I found that explains best that voltage is a scalar is University Physics by Sears and Zemansky, or the smaller book Electricity and Magnetism by Sears (a subset). An example is 3 equal charges at the vertices of a equilateral triangle (120 deg. apart), calculate the resultant E field and voltage (potential) at the center. The E fields from each of the charges are added as vectors and cancel,thus E=0. The voltages add as scalars, each being the same distance, so V(total) = 3 times V from each charge. In fact 2 charges could be moved to the third, making 1 charge 3X, and the voltage isn't changed. There is nothing unique about 3 charges. There could be ~infinite in a loop around the point in question, or a sphere in 3 dimensions. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 13:32:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA00828; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:34:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709102034.QAA12769@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Some questions about Over Unity fourmulas Resent-Message-ID: <"K058P3.0.qC.oDm5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/627 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 05:01 AM 9/10/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hey Grape Boy, > > Before you blow yourself up or drive the rest of this group nuts, do >me a favor. COME ON GIVE THE KID A BREAK. Here is a young man not afraid to use his hands as well as his mind in a higher than normal level of persuit.Don't tell him to go read a book and let old farts do the work.Would you have told that to Tesla because he was working in an unexplored dangerous area? " Hey Grape boy" go for it, use caution but don't let fear of the unknown stop you.The world only advances if someone takes a chance and is not afraid to fail.Observe and study. Read whenever you are curious about a topic or to understand what you have seen.Ask questions even dumb ones.Last week I was asking dumb questions about back e.m.f. because I didn't know and some things did not add up in my mind.I too started working on perpetual motion in high school. I built one of the original Timex zx 81 computers with a wooping 1 k ram. This winter I will be building a man carrying flying replica of a Canadian fighter jet called the Arrow.I suffer the slings and arrows of know it all helpfull people but do not let them discourage me because I will learn all I need to know to do the job safely because my hide is important to me.Just because it hasn't been done before does not make it impossible or unattemptable. Use your imagination and have fun but do it as safe as you can. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 13:33:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA00844; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709102034.QAA12761@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: OverUnity Prizes Resent-Message-ID: <"_ri-f1.0.3D.qDm5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/628 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:04 PM 9/10/97 +0930, you wrote: >Hi All, > >I wish to add a new section featuring sites offering real prize money >for the demonstration of a working OverUnity device to my sites link >list. > >If you have such a site or know of one, please email me the address. > >-- >Best Regards, > Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson > Try Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 15:07:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA17513; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <9709101638.ZM15744@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:38:23 -0500 In-Reply-To: Dave Dameron "Re: Wimhurst Machine" (Sep 10, 3:36pm) References: <199709102000.NAA05815@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wimhurst Machine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"JxOCE.0.XH4.mdn5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/629 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 10, 3:36pm, Dave Dameron wrote: >....reprinted by Lindsay Publications. A favorite of mine: http://www.keynet.net/~lindsay/ -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 15:10:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA13984; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:09:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:09:36 -0700 Message-ID: <341718E7.F53A10AA@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:32:15 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server NeoTech , List Server Newman , List Server Freenrg Subject: Re: Over unity Prizes X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199709101719_MC2-1FF3-AD9C@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5Sx-z.0.PQ3.Vgn5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/630 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > Greg Watson writes: > > I wish to add a new section featuring sites offering real prize money > for the demonstration of a working Over Unity device to my sites link list. > > If you have such a site or know of one, please email me the address. > > Yeah, I know a site like that. It's the biggest in the world. It's called The > New York Stock Exchange. There's also AMEX, the Paris Bourse, the Tokyo > Exchange and a few thousand others. Anyone who comes up with a real, working > over unity device can make billions and billions of dollars at those places. > Play your cards right and you can be richer than Bill Gates in a few years. Bill can have it. Releasing my research info to you all is NOT the way to be a Gates. Not all of us are turned on by money. Its really not the ultimate goal it seems to be. Its not my driving force. Love, Lifestyle, Family & Friends. That's where it's all at. Unless the US Patent system is rubbish, there are already plenty of OU devices in existence. Check out my patent list. > The thing is, you have to *play your cards*. Don't hold them or hide'em, and > stop talking about them. Make your move. Show us your hand. Ship the product > already. The original SMOT kit offer only promished to deliver 4 linked ramps. To many that was enough to show OU. But to a FEW with loud voices (who seemed to have the greatest problems getting a simple "climb & drop" working) not so. THe amount of adjustment and fiddling was not good. > Look, Greg, please stop worrying about stuff like that. Any reward offered by > any organization will be microscopic compared to what you can earn with a real > o-u machines. You don't even need a patent. Heck, for that matter, if you ever > send Chris Tinsley a working machine, I'll send you $100,000 just to get the > ball rolling. I would advise you to stop screwing around looking for two-bit > rewards, and stop working on your web page too. Just ship out the gadget like > you promised to do months ago. What I had to ship months ago, Chris & Scott very firmly told the world was not OU. Is that REALLY what you wanted? I have worked VERY hard to reduce the variation in the system and design a unit with solid "Closed Loop" performance. Just screwing around am I? > If it is real -- if it is anything like what > you have described -- I guarantee I'll have you rolling in money. Look Jed, with all respect, I don't know who you or anybody else on this list really are. I have been in business long enough to know NOT to depend on helping hands. You never know the real objectives. > Okay? NO! > - Jed Hi Jed, Check out my project schedule. I will ship the SMOT "Rollaround" kits as indicated. Note that I have now raised the delivered performance. They will do continual "Rollarounds" with NO ADJUSTMENTS. Chris's wife will not need to play. She can do so if she so wishes. No Black hats needed. I know why they work. I can design other system based on the "Effect". I will collect all the prize money I can get. No strings attached. I will go into mass production with a small plastic injected SMOT "Rollaround" unit. OU for the masses! I will go on an Australian, US & EEC tour to demonstrate the devices. Unlike many other devices which have not made the distance, this one will. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 15:32:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA21735; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34171DD3.61AB692B@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:53:15 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server Freenrg Subject: Re: Dean Drive X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <970910072811_467875687@emout01.mail.aol.com> <3416B3CE.6E15@interlaced.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YIdPb1.0.RJ5.P_n5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/631 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Francis J. Stenger wrote: > > Tstolper@aol.com wrote: > > > > > I read a lot of sci-fi as a kid, including Astounding Science Fiction (later > > Analog Science Fiction), and remember being fascinated by the Dean Drive. > > Whatever happened to it? > > > Me too, Tom! I built a model of what I thought the drive was all about > but it did not work. I know the drive received a lot of press after > the Analog discussions - I think many experimenters tried it out. Me too........... > I think Dean tested his device on a bathroom-type scales and would get > readings of reduced weight. Correct. I saw a TV show on which Dean showed the weight reduction going to ZERO. > The device was a strong mechanical > oscillator and, I think, was way out of the scale's response zone for > time-varying forces. I saw some articles showing tests of the drive > mounted on suspended (good old pendulum!) platforms which probably > showed that the drive didn't work. The pendulum showed the drive delivering a very definite movement away from a suspended plum bob. > That was a great time! - I spent many hours trying to get around the > conservation-of-momentum, but Nature ruled - and I failed. Too bad. > I had visions of sitting on this garden-tractor-sized Dean-drive device > with a 10 HP Briggs going at full throttle - lifting out of my back > yard and headed for 10,000 feet where I would run out of air and have > to descend to add oxygen tanks, etc. for the run to outer space! > > Sigh -------- Frank Stenger Hi Frank, Been there, done that. John Campbell & Analog. Good reading for a high school inventor. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 15:46:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA22064; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:46:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:46:37 -0700 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ALERT Message-ID: <19970910.184707.8247.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <199709092212.RAA05130@csrlink.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-14,18-20 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:46:07 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"n5Nep2.0.YO5.CDo5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/632 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >> I added some of the 'history' of systems as I know there are some >>vortexian or freenrg users out there that HAD or Still have a KAYPRO >>or OSBORNE or Teltax(?) Texcom(?) someone will remind me (pre-MSDOS). >>(it had a membrane keypad as I remember - ahead of it's Time!) >>--------- > >It was the Timex/Sinclair Z80, I believe. It came with about 2k >onboard, >and had keys for peek and poke, along with some strange little >box-drawing >characters. > >(cassette drive optional) > >JD Hey, I had one of those sinclairs (ZX-81). Built it as a kit. Before marketed by Timex it only had 1K of Ram. (also repaired a zx-80 for a co-worker). Used a C-64 while in college to do term papers, until I entered the IBM world in '89. Steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 15:47:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA22132; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:46:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:46:58 -0700 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Some questions about Over Unity fourmulas Message-ID: <19970910.184707.8247.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <34162542.7A6F@ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,11,13-21,24-25,27-28,32-34 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:46:07 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"T6uZ4.0.iP5.XDo5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/633 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:42:42 -0700 Ryan writes: >hi its me Ryan Parrish (grape boy), >#2 This is about the ethics of free-enegry. If it was discovered as a >viable means to produce power what would be the right thing to do? >A.) Spread the word to every one through the internet so every one can >no longer be hounded by " The Man " to pay for electicy, eventuly >creating world peace and stoping wars over resoures'es???? Actually most wars today are civil wars, mostly due to ethnic or religious differences. Almost all new technology causes economic changes and hardships for those displaced, just a feature of the system of things we live in.... >B.) Kepp it to yourself and make millions of $$, probley eventuly >crashing the world trade market because the fules we depend on would >be >as worthless as lead???( Could you imanage what would happen if some >one >found a way for turning lead into gold to work..havoc.. ) > As for making millions, perhaps you would. But so did Edison, Ford, Watson, Gates, (and even Tesla) and countless others that founded billion dollar industries. > The only real responsibility (in my opinion) you need to seroiusly consider is the technology safe and clean to use. > Now my two cents about your "safety"...GO FOR IT! Be safe by all means, but after researching go ahead and experiment! When I was in high school we made explosives (now THAT was stupid!!!!). No one gains any experience sitting on their behinds : ) Steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 15:52:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA24625; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34172282.ECC60CD6@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:13:14 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: New Patent X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BLMME1.0.X06.6Io5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/634 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I have added a new patent to my site : US> 5280864 Woodward Method for transiently altering the mass of objects to facilitate their transport or change their stationary apparent weights -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 16:03:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA25942; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:02:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: bailey@best.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:57:11 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: INE Site Has Been Updated, Sept. 10, 1997 Resent-Message-ID: <"yj2cO1.0.DL6.xRo5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/635 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ Most New Data Files are at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT All the revisions are in the file: http://www.padrak.com/ine/REVISIONS.html ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Sep. 10, 1997 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 5, No. 5, September 1997 Low-Energy Nuclear Transmutation Kit, Model 1 LENT-1 Ordering Info Low-Energy Nuclear Transmutation Kit, Model 1 LENT-1: Now Available! THE LEGACY OF COLD FUSION: Truth, History, and Status Stefan Marinov - In Memoriam: My Scientific Testament; A Strong Voice Is Missing (His Last Will And Testament); Letter From Erwin Schneeberger; Letter From Dr. Robert W. Bass Space Energy For Space Flight ZPF - Inertia, Gravity, & Mass Running On French Fries Benign Neglect Book: Electrostatics: Exploring, controlling, and Using Static Electricity, 2nd Edition, 1997 Also: Can the Vacuum be Engineered for Spaceflight Applications? Overview of Theory and Experiments (Paper by Hal Puthoff at NASA Conference) On Free-Energy: Email Received by INE from Tom Bearden Sept. 8, 1997. FREE ENERGY - The Race to Zero Point Video Patterson Power Cell Patent Information Packet ISNE 1997 Proceedings and Table of Contents Updated: Authors, Subjects, and Websites Pages. Announcements and Products Pages. Commercial and Information Source Files. Site Counter = 145,296 Aug. 19, 1997 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 5, No. 4, August 1997 The First Aether Conference 32nd IECEC 1997 Innovative Concepts Sessions (CT-06) Abstracts Zinc-Air Batteries In Las Vegas Why Expect Neutrons? NEN Editorial. Thoughts On Magnetic Systems and Possible Aether Paper on Earl Koenig: The Use Of Mirror Image Symmetry In Coil Winding, by Toby Grotz Updated: Authors, Subjects, and Websites Pages. INE Web Site Map Page. Site Counter = 138,213 Aug. 14, 1997 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 5, No. 3, July 1997 Low-Energy Bulk-Process Alchemy Energy Gain & Transmutation Patterson Cold Fusion Cell On TV Arthur C. Clarke, Friend of New Energy Creation of Energy & Matter Constructing Anti-Gravity Device Apology To Salt Lake Tribune Cold Fusion Bibliography on Disk Site Counter = 128,932 July 23, 1997 NEW! The INE Database of Devices, Inventors, and Data: Listings of all of the Devices and Data in the Database. 4 New Pages with all of the devices in the database (as links) sorted by: (1) Device Names, (2) Inventor's Names, (3) Interest Criteria, and (4) Commercialization Criteria - With a New Page for each Device (115) with all the data. This is our first version. YOUR INPUT IS ENCOURAGED! Added: Journal of New Energy, Table of Contents JNE, Volume 1, Number 3, Fall 1996. JNE, Volume 1, Number 4, Winter 1996. JNE, Volume 2, Number 2, Spring 1997. Updated: Products Page. Authors, Subjects, and Websites Pages. Site Counter = 128,932 May 25, 1997 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 5, No. 2, June 1997 Special Edition for the 4th ISNE A Challenge To Supporters Of New Energy A New Cold Fusion Experimental Device Biological Transmutation Patent Radioactive Waste Amelioration Patent Light Is The Ghost Of Mass Texas A&M Refuses Seminar (On Cold Fusion) $100,000 For Demonstration Of A Free Energy Machine Charge Cluster Transmutation, 4th ISNE Paper Videotape: Free Energy: The Race To Zero Point Conference on the Fundamentals of Physics and Cosmology International Cold Fusion Forum (ICCF-7) Updated: All files for 1997 NEN copyright dates. Announcements Page (Meetings). Products Page (Videotapes) Authors and Subjects Pages Site Counter = 107,231 Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 16:16:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA27528; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:15:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:15:29 -0700 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:20:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall Sender: ekwall2@november To: JD cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [OFF TOPIC] Re: ALERT In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970910051545.00851d80@pop.flash.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"OHIu03.0.sj6.Deo5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/636 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, JD wrote: >>>someone will remind me (pre-MSDOS). >>>(it had a membrane keypad as I remember - ahead of it's Time!) >>>--------- >> >>It was the Timex/Sinclair Z80, I believe. It came with about 2k onboard, >>and had keys for peek and poke, along with some strange little box-drawing >>characters. >> >>(cassette drive optional) >> >>JD >> Yes! :) Thank you! I went from Binary Programming TO Z80 (power-punching Shadow-memory) ASM programming (how could I forget (duh.. time flies and things seem to be going the wrong direction for me.) Thanks again, (I knew it was a "T", but Dared NOT Say Tandy *.* :) -=se=- P.S. 80% (most) home/commercial alarm systems still use the Z80 for it's no-nonsense straight foward approach.. UL Listed since day one too! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 16:25:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA00268; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <341729AA.66C2B68F@microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:43:46 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Curl Free Patents X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Co8tc1.0.54.alo5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/637 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: HI All, I have put of all of the Gelinas "Curl-free magnetic vector" patents on my sites patent list. Thanks to Jean-Louis. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 16:26:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA30508; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:25:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:25:22 -0700 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:22:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Jason Aldo To: Richard Austin Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Some questions about Over Unity fourmulas In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QhKax.0.SS7.Vno5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/638 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Richard Austin wrote: > >Hey Grape Boy, > > > > > ...(deleted to save band width) > > >This is the path of wisdom, and it starts by reading. -Knuke > > Amen to what Knuke says. > > By reading you can explore all the gifts humanity has to offer... > > Not only science, but practical wisdom, the inner awakening of your own consciousness, and all the other vital stuff that "The Man" leaves out of public education. > Knuke and Richard, You both need to lighten up. Reading is good and necessary, but little new phenomenon will be discovered from old knowledge. Much can be learned from experimentation. Actual experience teaches a very lasting lesson. Pete > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 17:44:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA12754; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:43:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:43:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:49:47 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall Sender: ekwall2@november To: "Kyle R. Mcallister" cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New theory In-Reply-To: <34170A71.2F14@sunherald.infi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"d0Nzm.0.B73.7xp5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/639 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: -big snip- >>Theory: >> >>Time is not bendable. IT DOES NOT EXIST. Correct, Man invented 'Time!' >> It is simply the properties of space at one instance. Now your playing with man's 'our' invention that doesn't exist! :) There is no "back to the future", but you CAN BE THERE if you ARE THERE! -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 17:49:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA13042; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BCBE54.1F887C60@que2-p7.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Some questions about Over Unity fourmulas Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 01:43:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBE54.1F901D80" Resent-Message-ID: <"U0GHk3.0.hB3.A0q5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/640 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBE54.1F901D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ryan wrote: >hi its me Ryan Parrish (grape boy), now I have a seriouse >question about the theroys of over unity ( pardon my spelling ) > >#1 What would be the ( if any ) formula for finding out if you have >discovered free enegry? >So what would be the formula for finding out if free >enegry has been discovered, like I put 12v in but that 12v produces >enough gas to run a generater at say 15v???? > > Ryan Parrish Hello Ryan, I can only try to give you a picture of what energy is. You seem smart enough to derive the "free energy" concept from there. In Dynamics (science of motions) there are two fundamental concepts: force (potential) and movement (flow). I can give you a few examples that should help to clarify this: In Electricity the force is the potential and the current is the flow. In Mechanics The force is mechanical force the the flow is momentum (mass x speed) In Hydraulics the force is pressure and the flow is fluid flow. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBE54.1F901D80 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiUBAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAQAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAABF40AQSAAQAuAAAAUkU6 IFNvbWUgcXVlc3Rpb25zIGFib3V0IE92ZXIgVW5pdHkgZm91cm11bGFzAL4QAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcJ AAsAAQArAB0ABAA1AQEggAMADgAAAM0HCQALAAEAKwAdAAQANQEBCYABACEAAAAwREM5QTgwMTNG MkFEMTExQkJEQjQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMAD5BgEDkAYA+AQAABQAAAALACMAAQAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwAp AAEAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AMAV8xpUvrwBHgBwAAEAAAAuAAAAUkU6IFNvbWUgcXVl c3Rpb25zIGFib3V0IE92ZXIgVW5pdHkgZm91cm11bGFzAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAby+VBrzAajJ Eio/EdG720RFU1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABcAAAB2aWxlbGFAbWFp bC50ZWxlcGFjLnB0AAADAAYQUXuu0wMABxD2AgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAUllBTldST1RFOkhJSVRT TUVSWUFOUEFSUklTSChHUkFQRUJPWSksTk9XSUhBVkVBU0VSSU9VU0VRVUVTVElPTkFCT1VUVEhF VEhFUk9ZU09GT1ZFUlVOSVRZKFBBUkRPTk1ZUwAAAAACAQkQAQAAAFMDAABPAwAAUQUAAExaRnW2 26Qq/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzIDxgcTAoNGMwPFAgBwcnES InOodGVtAoM0Ew19CoA/CM8J2QKACoENsQtgbmd9AdA3DfALChXCAdAH8HktA5F3A2AVQDoKhT5o cGkgaXQEIAeAGuRQQwrABRBzaCAoCcBhBnAcoAbgeSksIG5SbwfgSSARwHYcoGFeIBHwBRAIYBHw IBumcX8KUBUwH2ADoAGgCGAFQHQeaBygITEDYBUgIG9mlyHgHuAFwHUDAHR5HYBWIAsCIKFtIrBz HdBsYmwLgGcgKRumG6YjWDEgVxHABUB3CGBsvmQd8CFTIsEGkB8AbiKw5CkgAhBybSXQHxAnMbsn IAuAZCPiIPImoXkIYP8etBumKCAE8CIiCYAnIAnRSiAJ8GUJwHk/CoU8ynMDAHAkp1NvGzAlf/8n PyhIKqIbpir0HrEEICYQ3QnwICn4HkAj0GscoB6gYnAhATEydhxAA6BinyEDJYEy4hTABHB1YweQ qy/4CGBnHXBnMPF0LMD2ciJwHwFnKvEdsBVABcAJJYFzYSKwMTV2P/83oSQ+DIIDMDj/OWAcygqF 3QqFSCOxLMAa8iw7PB6g1mMDkQIgbCKwdDCxNdEcZ2ke4SjiHxBwaWO+dAhwHKAh8SzjNnJnIrDx BAAuIFko8RHwFVAfIP8AwAAgKuE1QgqFNdEEgT7S7SEyIiqmQKEiPbACIDRwZwUxA1IhY2UuPM0D oESweW5hbT+ABCAoBPDfCJBEwSHiBGAggnMnEEVzux8AP8F0JbAt8CJwZEcQ7wnwAZADIESlcxuW LgFH0fwocBthAjAHMScQAHAl8L8EYB7gSfIdgBkgHnApQQDLPaQ+yWYH0WV4RxALUD8HkTOTHWAl wgqFIUBscP01wmMLYAaBPjEcIErXRkj+RU9wP5AFEEeQIqEtxUfR3wQAISNL10xzITJjCHAXoN9N IVSVTWJFxkaxTQWQEcD7AwBHQVRUCgeAWCRKMUtkXyE1VwNZMwNwSgF1QZAoewDABBF4I4IJgCQm RrFI/HlkHbAl0EcyU/sUwAeQnnM/slWmWwYZIHVpKoELVykWwQBiAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAA QAAHMKDbTqhRvrwBQAAIMMAV8xpUvrwBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAMh0 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBE54.1F901D80-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 17:50:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA14344; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:50:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:50:25 -0700 Message-ID: <34176A00.6421@motown.lmco.com> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:48:16 -0700 From: francis x roarty Reply-To: froarty@motown.lmco.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Re: New Patent References: <34172282.ECC60CD6@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zNgix3.0.yV3.G1q5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/641 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have added a new patent to my site : > > US> 5280864 Woodward Method for transiently altering the mass > of > objects to facilitate their transport > or > change their stationary apparent > weights > > -- > Best Regards, > Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson Great patent, Ive been obsessed with this for weeks. here is the corresponding article http://www.inetarena.com/~noetic/pls/gravity.html#mayberelated let me know if you find any other links to woodwards work. Thanks Frank From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 18:05:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA15441; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:10:04 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [OFF TOPIC} RE: ALEert.... In-Reply-To: <199709102000.NAA05833@italy.it.earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gQ96G.0.5n3.GFq5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/642 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Dave Dameron wrote: -big snip- >>(I had to give up on this one when the data rate dropped to 1 byte/second) >>-Dave >> touche~ :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 18:35:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA22198; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:31:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:31:58 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCBE5A.34A824A0@que2-p7.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Some questions about Over Unity fourmulas Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 02:27:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBE5A.34A824A0" Resent-Message-ID: <"SY9Hi3.0.jQ5.Ceq5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/643 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBE5A.34A824A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ryan wrote: >hi its me Ryan Parrish (grape boy), now I have a seriouse=20 >question about the theroys of over unity ( pardon my spelling ) > >#1 What would be the ( if any ) formula for finding out if you have=20 >discovered free enegry? >So what would be the formula for finding out if free >enegry has been discovered, like I put 12v in but that 12v produces >enough gas to run a generater at say 15v???? > > Ryan Parrish Hello Ryan, I can only try to give you a picture of what energy is. You seem smart = enough to derive the "free energy" concept from there. In Dynamics (science of motions) there are two fundamental concepts: force (potential) and movement (flow). I can give you a few examples = that should help to clarify this: In Electricity the force is the potential and the current is the flow. In Mechanics The force is mechanical force the the flow is momentum = (mass x speed) In Hydraulics the force is pressure and the flow is fluid flow. (I seem to have goofed up my 'sends' and 'receives' here :-) Power is then the ability of exherting force *while* producing flow. Again, let me give you some examples of this: In Electricity: You can have voltage and no corresponding current. (In your electrolisys experiments, suppose the water is pure water. You should have no current and no gas generation. Still you would have = voltage). In this case there is no power exchange. In Mechanics: If you stand on the ground, and it doesn't move, then you = would not be applying power to the ground. If however the ground moved (e.g, = you can try that on a bed), then there would be a power exchange from you to the ground = to move it. Then power would be expressed as force multiplied by flow. Increasing = one of them, would correspondingly increase the power. This power exchange, comes in different varieties. You could have the = same power with a high force and low flow, or a low force and a high flow. Note that power is defined for a given point in time. It is a function = of time, like force and flow. Now, energy is the total flow of power, between two time instants. If you have a power of 1 Watt flowing, in 1 second you would have = conveyed 1 Joule. In the electrical case: E=3DV.I.t (assuming constant voltage and = current). The funny thing about energy is that it seem to be conserved. That is, = if you apply 1 Joule of electrical energy to a resistance, then 1 Joule is the thermal energy = you get from it. Note that energy is independent of the particular type of force or flow. = It has been shown to be=20 equivalent (the same, actually) between all its states. BTW, the answer to your question about 12v and 15v is: not necessarily. I would dare say, however, that if you put 12v in (with some current and = for a while) and got 15v out at the same current and for the same time, then yes you = would have beatten us at this game :-) Best of luck. 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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 19:09:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA27719; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:08:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:08:41 -0700 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Newman RealVideo movie available ! Cc: newman-l@emachine.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 04:03:27 +0100 Message-Id: <19970911040327.2026c0a9.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"B9TjR2.0.-m6.cAr5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/645 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, I just got a new RealVideo movie about the Newman motor technology and the fact of suppression from the patent office and the "sucking" NBS test that was tottally wrong done...( I have read the NBS test myself and these NBS-guys were really stupid..) I put this file up into my movies directory. You can download it from there or play it in Realtime streamed via the RealVideo player. Get the movie player from: www.real.com and then play the movie streamed in Realtime by clicking: Open Location and give in this link in the REALPLAYER 4.x: http://www.overunity.de/movies/newman.rm Then the RealPlayer will start playing the movie. If you have a bad connection to the Internet, you can also first download it via Netscape to your harddisk and then play it locally, which will not drop any movie frames. Hope you enjoy it... As I have also many other video-tapes myself, which I will soon convert to RealVideo or Netshow and MPEG format, I am still looking for a new Internet Service provider, who will give me about 150 to 200 MB space for all these upcoming movies. Does anybody know any ISP with nice rates for storing this amount of data ? Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 19:29:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA24779; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:28:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:28:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BCBE62.0C4A4E40@que2-p7.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: [STILL OFF TOPIC] Re: ALERT Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:23:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBE62.0C4A4E40" Resent-Message-ID: <"-UFpv1.0.236.VTr5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/646 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBE62.0C4A4E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jiyani@aol.com wrote: >Yep and the Chinese had an abacus too but that does not seem to be too >germaine to todays work, does it? Sorry to disappoint you, but abacus are still in wide use there. Also I remember reading somewhere about a competition between an=20 american and a japanese using an electric calculator and an abacus, respectively (can't remember the context) and the abacus won. Incredible machine if you know how to use it. Damn fast! Ant=F3nio Vilela ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBE62.0C4A4E40 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhIDAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAgAAAAUkU6 IFtTVElMTCBPRkYgVE9QSUNdIFJlOiBBTEVSVAB0CAEFgAMADgAAAM0HCQALAAMAFwAPAAQAFQEB IIADAA4AAADNBwkACwADABIAJgAEACcBAQmAAQAhAAAAMUZDOUE4MDEzRjJBRDExMUJCREI0NDQ1 NTM1NDAwMDAA/AYBA5AGANQDAAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAAD ADYAAAAAAEAAOQDAnPoKYr68AR4AcAABAAAAIAAAAFJFOiBbU1RJTEwgT0ZGIFRPUElDXSBSZTog QUxFUlQAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAby+Ygr6AajJICo/EdG720RFU1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01U UAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABcAAAB2aWxlbGFAbWFpbC50ZWxlcGFjLnB0AAADAAYQxK1E9AMABxB2AQAA HgAIEAEAAABlAAAASklZQU5JQEFPTENPTVdST1RFOllFUEFORFRIRUNISU5FU0VIQURBTkFCQUNV U1RPT0JVVFRIQVRET0VTTk9UU0VFTVRPQkVUT09HRVJNQUlORVRPVE9EQVlTV09SSyxET0VTSQAA AAACAQkQAQAAAD8CAAA7AgAAhQMAAExaRnX4jfao/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBz ZXTuMgYABsMCgzIDxgcTAoPGMwPFAgBwcnESIBOI+jQTDX0KgAjPCdkCgAqB0w2xC2BuZwHQNw3w CwpDFCIB0CBKaXkAcGkUQGEG8C4FoG0gd9EDYHRlOgqFPgtGFbIXDAEUwBvxYwVAWWVwAiAAcGQg dGhlIPxDaAuAB5AewBHAHoADkQsBoADQdQQgdG9vICxidQVAHqBhBUBkb9UHkW4b8CAR8GUbsCBA fyBwHsAgQQqHGhscrx21Zx8EkADAHwEh4iBAZGF5JQQgdwWwaywhBGl0Lj8KhSKPGpNTBbByeYUh 4mQEAGFwcG8LgP0FQHkIYCbQIIIf1QrAHsC8c3QDEAMgC4AbwGkNsF4gIBAiMR6wF5AuCoVB5Gxz IGBJIBeQB4AG0O8EkC4RH3ALgGchkANwB9CvLPIfwQhgKvEgG5FwEgDNJ0BpAiAiEXR3CeEfku0K hWEHgAUQYx+iHnEwMH5qKgAAcB8iIBAu8gORZf5sHeEyYTBAB0AgAAtgIEC3MhEy0h+2LAqFF5Bz MIBZHfBpdjRAKYAoMoEnHwVALiceogWgAjBleHRuKR5XH9UmkG4tNgqFSfZuBQAJgGkCYB7AAMEe 8mUnMGYqciBrIWAH4GiPPUEh8SyiJ0AuIEQyMKkDoGZhK8AhJ3xBAjDcXCcUEAMAIGBWAxA0QH5h I/8dxAqPC5ES8kG/IAUWsQBFQAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMECGlmVhvrwBQAAIMECGlmVh vrwBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAD0E ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBE62.0C4A4E40-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 19:39:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA26339; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34178231.1CB7@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:31:29 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars References: <01BCBD6C.148E02A0@que1-p6.telepac.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"D2Ouw3.0.PR6.ecr5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/647 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: António Vilela wrote: > > Hello Bob, > > Bob Shannon wrote: > > > >> The velocity of a body, its momentum, the force acting on it, an electric current, the > >> magnetization of a particle of iron, are instances of vector quantities. > > > >Note, "an electric current", ahh, but what about voltage then? > > > >A voltmeter displays "voltage", by using a know impednence to draw a > >current. This is part of why a voltmeter must have two connections, > >unlike an electroscope. > > > > I knew you would be falling for this :-)) > > Ok then, what about voltage? > Well, I was going to answer to this but then I found a good web site that explains it well > enough. > > Please check at: > > http://maxwell.byu.edu/~spencerr/websumm122/index.html > > Most notably chapters 25 and 27 will be of interest to this question. The "Electric Current" > concept in chapter 27 is not very good, but it will give an idea. Ok, I've been there, and I agree, the treatment in chapter 27 is not among the best... > I will try, however, to give an explanation of these things. > (note that the tube is defined as a surface not crossed by any charges), then we find that > the net charge flow along the tube is another current (scalar one) that is a function of the > potential difference between the two cross-sections (which is th e line-integral of the > E-field on a line along the "tube"). This is what I understand as being voltage. > Maybe this is the cause for such confusion? A scalar current, yes, this will be a cause of some confusion. > > Sorry about the "current tube" anacronism, but it is still a good picture of things > (and applies well to the circuit wire). Scalar current is an oxymoron, not an anacronism. Current has direction, as does voltage. A scalar value lacks direction. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 19:55:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA28846; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34178625.F46@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:48:21 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [OFF TOPIC] Re: ALERT References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HMi-81.0.Z27.Psr5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/648 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Zack Widup wrote: > My first "minicomputer" experience was in 1974 with a PDP 8 and a PDP > 11/15 (8-bit machines). PDP 8's are 12 bit machines, the PDP 11/15 is a whopping 16 bit mini! (Closet antique computer collector !) Those older machines still get the job done though! You gotta love core memory! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 19:57:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA05365; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:56:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:56:56 -0700 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:02:51 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [OFF TOPIC] Re: ALERT In-Reply-To: <970910215445_-699684008@emout09.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KYeUJ.0.UJ1.qtr5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/649 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 Jiyani@aol.com wrote: >> >>Yep and the Chinese had an abacus too but that does not seem to be too >>germaine to todays work, does it? >> >> Yep and lightning NEVER strikes twice in the SAME place.."Just ask the Empire State Building!" Now I know I have 2-3 slide - rules around here somehere, unless their batteries failed.. (hummmmm... looking, looking..) yep i agree in progress, but looking before you leap is cool too! :) I used to think throwing an M-80 at a herd of cows was 'way-cool' on the 4th of July,,, till I had to go round 'em all up.. july 5,6..(1)7th good luck on all your projects! -=se=- ps admittedly this IS/HAS gone WAY {off topic}, so /I'll back off and let the obvious settle in the saw-dust..(it'll hold/survive:) all kneal to bill gates and everybody buy a mainframe + T* connection$$$ but, i still predict we will get smaller hand-held (Dick Tracy Style) watches and THEY will have the memory & speed requirements they thrust at US, or finally WE just won't/CAN'T PLAY ball. :) -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 20:24:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA03149; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34178CC0.153@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:16:32 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: example of voltage as a scalar (B.B. Scalars} References: <199709102000.NAA05795@italy.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8ThYb3.0.5n.tGs5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/650 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dave Dameron wrote: > The text I found that explains best that voltage is a scalar is University > Physics by > Sears and Zemansky, or the smaller book Electricity and Magnetism by Sears (a > subset). An example is 3 equal charges at the vertices of a equilateral > triangle (120 deg. apart), calculate the resultant E field and voltage > (potential) at the center. The E fields from each of the charges are > added as vectors and cancel,thus E=0. The voltages add as scalars, each > being the same distance, so V(total) = 3 times V from each charge. In fact 2 > charges > could be moved to the third, making 1 charge 3X, and the voltage isn't changed. Voltage relative to what? (Magnitude and direction please!) And what of Maxwell? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 20:26:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA13100; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:26:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:26:01 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCBE6A.2ECB0880@que2-p7.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 04:21:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBE6A.2EDBD160" Resent-Message-ID: <"gAGbO.0.bC3.8Js5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/651 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBE6A.2EDBD160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Bob, Bob Shannon wrote: >Scalar current is an oxymoron, not an anacronism. Current has >direction, as does voltage. A scalar value lacks direction. Indeed a scalar value lacks direction. But who needs it? And is it possible to define? Take the attached drawing. Consider that it is a resistive wire of known and constant resistance. Then consider that point B is at +5V relating = to A (as shown) and that point C is midway (that gives +2.5V). Now please draw the vector current at A, when you consider the voltage = AC and then draw the current vector at A when you consider the voltage AB. Then explain which one is the "real" current vector at A. By the way, do you consider the oxymoron a vector or a scalar? :-) Best Regards, Ant=F3nio Vilela =20 P.S. - Since I'm unable to convince you, maybe you should try to give us *your* definition of electrical current. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBE6A.2EDBD160 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiAEAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAfAAAAUkU6 IGJsYXRhbnRseSBiYWJibGluZyBzY2FsYXJzABYLAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcJAAsABAAVABIABAAXAQEg 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CQAAAFdpcmUuZ2lmAAAAAAMACzcXAwAAAwAhDmXOAABUEg== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBE6A.2EDBD160-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 20:34:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA05403; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BCBE6B.22EBFB40@que2-p7.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: example of voltage as a scalar (B.B. Scalars} Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 04:28:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBE6B.22EBFB40" Resent-Message-ID: <"oGusw1.0.HK1.kQs5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/652 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBE6B.22EBFB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello David, Bob,=20 Bob Shannon wrote: >Dave Dameron wrote: > >=20 >> The text I found that explains best that voltage is a scalar is = University >> Physics by >> Sears and Zemansky, or the smaller book Electricity and Magnetism by = Sears (a >> subset). An example is 3 equal charges at the vertices of a = equilateral >> triangle (120 deg. apart), calculate the resultant E field and = voltage >> (potential) at the center. The E fields from each of the charges are >> added as vectors and cancel,thus E=3D0. The voltages add as scalars, = each >> being the same distance, so V(total) =3D 3 times V from each charge. = In fact 2 >> charges >> could be moved to the third, making 1 charge 3X, and the voltage = isn't changed. > >Voltage relative to what? (Magnitude and direction please!) Good question Bob! Right on target. Since Dave has given us his answer, why don't you give us yours now? = (Magnitude and direction please!) 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Miller" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:35:43 (-050 Subject: Re: Wimhurst Machine Priority: normal In-reply-to: <9709101638.ZM15744@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> References: Dave Dameron "Re: Wimhurst Machine" (Sep 10, 3:36pm) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"H5cG3.0.og3.8Ss5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/653 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > From: "John E. Steck" > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:38:23 -0500 > http://www.keynet.net/~lindsay/ Geeze. How long has this been on the WWW? I've been getting their catalog (and ordering books) for years -- but no mention has been made of a web site. -- Dean -- from Des Moines (KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 20:46:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA07625; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3417853E.26B6@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:44:31 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New theory References: <34170A71.2F14@sunherald.infi.net> <34178ABF.2023@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mpDp93.0.0t1.6cs5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/654 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > > > > Greetings: > > > > > Here is where I believe Einstein made the mistake of stating that time > > is relative, and that lightspeed is impossible to overcome, or you will > > travel through time. Time according to Einstein is relative, so time > > would reverse, and you could meet yourself in te past BEFORE you left > > earth. But what if time is absolute? There certainly is no proof against > > it, and there is much for it. > > What about measurments of atomic clocks that prove that time does indeed > change > as a function of velocity and / or gravity? > > There is a huge ammount of evidence that time dilation is very real. > Its been > measured very accurately, and found to match theory perfectly. Time dilation is real. Time travel is not. Time cannot dilate backwards. Time doesn't really change, just the perception of time. Tell me if this makes sense: You take off towards a star 10 light years away at 10 times the speed of light. You arrive in one year. You thrust away from the sun at this star below the speed of light for a month. You turn around, and FTL back to earth in one year: Einsteinian says: You arrive 1 month before you left earth in the first place Galilean/Me says: You arrive 2 years and 1 month after you left. Time may travel slower for you, but this has nothing to do with time travel. The light from your ship may do strange things, but you travel normally. Kyle Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 10 22:58:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA05327; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:58:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:58:29 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 01:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970911015751_-399514919@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au cc: fepps@mail1.halcyon.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Bedini's Patent Resent-Message-ID: <"fWROI.0.4J1.4Yu5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/655 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 11/09/1997 01:34:55 , Greg Watson Wrote : << HI All, I have put of all of the Gelinas "Curl-free magnetic vector" patents on my sites patent list. Thanks to Jean-Louis. >> Hi Greg, You may also add this patent : http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/5487057 5487057 : Apparatus and method for reducing electronic relaxation noise present information recording medium ------------------------------------------------------------------------ INVENTORS:Bedini; John C., Coeur d'Alene, ID ASSIGNEES:Bedini Electronics, Inc., Coeur d'Alene, IDISSUED:Jan. 23, 1996 ABSTRACT: A method and apparatus is provided for reducing relaxation noise in a conducting medium. The device is fabricated by affixing two magnets at like, repelling poles; wrapping said magnets with a coil of wire in an orientation orthogonal to the interface between the joined magnets and the like poles of the magnets to form a magnetic unit; connecting said coil to a motor means, an electrical power supply means and a switch means; attaching a spindle to said motor means. The spindle receives said conducting medium. The apparatus can be in a housing. The conducting medium is placed on said spindle. By activating the device, a modulated magnetic electromagnetic field is created simultaneous to the spinning of the conducting medium. The information recording medium rotates through the modulated electromagnetic field, thereby reducing the relaxation noise. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 00:19:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA14710; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:19:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:19:25 -0700 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 01:25:25 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Some questions about Over Unity fourmulas In-Reply-To: <19970910.184707.8247.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"28ONL.0.lb3.yjv5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/656 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 steve-nyeoka@juno.com wrote: >> >>Now my two cents about your "safety"...GO FOR IT! Be safe by all means, >>but after researching go ahead and experiment! When I was in high school >>we made explosives (now THAT was stupid!!!!). No one gains any experience >>sitting on their behinds : ) >> >>Steve >> now that WAS stupid..(hummmmm) wasn't the NOBEL PRIZE founded on Nitro-(BANG)...never make explosives you up-starts you?!?!?!?! no never mind.. "Think, Read but never try anything NEW!!" (right..) I agree "GO FOR IT!" ...... duh= of course be safe who'd want a nobel prize, who'd want a better world..... naawhhh! never mind... as NikE would say (and plageristically i take it, as i don't think you can patent the 'obvious') ..... JUST GO FOR IT!! -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 00:57:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA20597; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:57:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:57:21 -0700 From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: blatantly babbling scalars Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:56:59 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <341d8a30.10993186@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <01BCBB51.20FB0C80@que2-p7.telepac.pt> In-Reply-To: <01BCBB51.20FB0C80@que2-p7.telepac.pt> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sTvyX2.0.i15.WHw5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/657 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 7 Sep 1997 05:42:21 -0000, António Vilela wrote: [snip] >>Actually, even in this case you are measuring a potential difference, >>specifically, between the reference point and the charge. > >Good Lord, no! >The potential at the charge would be infinite! >The potential at a point in space due to the presence of a charge is an absolute value and is, >by definition, the energy per unit charge, required to bring a positive unit charge from infinite to that point. Oops! Now where did I leave that hat? :) > >In this case, you are partly right. It is a potential difference between the point and the infinite, where the >potential is assumed to be zero. Fair enough :) [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 03:41:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA07650; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:40:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:40:43 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 06:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970911064006_268643121@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: jdecker@keelynet.com, billb@eskimo.com Subject: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.6939.emout19.mail.aol.com.873974406" Resent-Message-ID: <"V5Ymd1.0.Mt1.ggy5q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/658 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.6939.emout19.mail.aol.com.873974406 Content-ID: <0_6939_873974406@emout19.mail.aol.com.1893> Content-type: text/plain Hi all, You will find in my web site, an interesting device : A SCALAR WAVES TRANSMITTER ( the SCW V1.0 )....This device uses a caduceus coil as a translator and produces some weird results. With the Scalar Waves Transmitter ( SWT) V1.0 you will be able to do some experiments with Scalar waves transmission. A simple test that you can perform with the SWT, is for instance : a) Take a AM pocket radio for LW band, select a broadcast radio with music for instance, b) Take a metal box, and put the radio into this metal box with the volume set to the maximum output, c) When the metal box is closed ( like a Faraday box ), all "normal" electromagnetics waves cannot pass through this shield, if the metal of your box is sufficiently thick... Now, you hear no more music.... d) Take again your LW pocket radio and tune finely your SWT ( about 200 kHz ). Play with the keying switch to hear an BF tone like a Morse code tone. e) Now, repeat the step (b)......and hear what happen.....Now, you will be able to hear the BF tone clearly through the metal box !!! THE SCALAR WAVES ARE ABLE TO PASS THROUGH THE METAL SHIELD....... The direct link for the complete SWT V1.0 scheme is : http://members.aol.com/overunity4/html/sclxmtr.htm This is an important part of the TEP Project. In the attached document you will find a picture of my SWT V1.0. I hope that this will interest you, Sincerely, ( This mail has been sent at 10h20 GMT on 11 Septembre 97 ) Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 --PART.BOUNDARY.0.6939.emout19.mail.aol.com.873974406 Content-ID: <0_6939_873974406@emout19.mail.aol.com.1894> Content-type: image/jpeg; name="SCLXMTRP.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD//gAhSW1hZ2UgQ3JlYXRlZCBieSBRViAyLjAgYWxwaGEg Nf/bAEMAFg8QExAOFhMSExgXFhogNiMgHh4gQi8yJzZORVJRTUVMSlZhfGlWXHVdSkxsk211 gISLjItUaJmjl4eifIiLhv/bAEMBFxgYIBwgPyMjP4ZZTFmGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaG hoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhv/AABEIAccBIgMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAa AAEAAgMBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUG/8QAQRAAAgECBAQEAwYDBgUFAQAAAAECAxEEEiEx BRNBUSJhcYEUMqEGFSMzUpFCwfAkNENEU7E1YnSCsjZGcoOE0f/EABgBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAABAgME/8QAHhEBAQEBAAMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAERAgMhMRJBEyL/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/ 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bZbaLoHZu4AEOUbf7kZ+gBVwzjmRAM2jXnJOTfS4T0AIpszawzewBBs2JACp0IAIC8hcAqp/ YAEMf//Z --PART.BOUNDARY.0.6939.emout19.mail.aol.com.873974406-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 06:13:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id GAA01865; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 06:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 06:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3417ED34.419A@ctv.es> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:08:04 +0200 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga Reply-To: vramos@ctv.es X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bedini's Patent References: <970911015751_-399514919@emout20.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vlfQo1.0.2T.fv-5q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/659 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > On 11/09/1997 01:34:55 , Greg Watson Wrote : > > << > HI All, > > I have put of all of the Gelinas "Curl-free magnetic vector" patents on > my sites patent list. Thanks to Jean-Louis. > >> > > Hi Greg, > > You may also add this patent : > > http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/5487057 > > 5487057 : Apparatus and method for reducing electronic relaxation noise > present information recording medium > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > INVENTORS:Bedini; John C., Coeur d'Alene, ID > > Jean-Louis Naudin Hi all, This is the ULTRACLARIFIER or not? This device is designed to be used on CD's. But.... WHY CAN BE REDUCED RELAXATION NOISE IN A DIGITAL SUPPORT???????? You must change the digital information on tracks to make this. Is impossible. Only a fraud. Vicente. -- Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga E-mail: vramos@ctv.es Home Page: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm Burriana (Castellon) SPAIN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 08:11:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id IAA21662; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709111507.IAA14788@germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: New Homopolar Design Resent-Message-ID: <"IGdVS3.0.LI5.sc06q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/660 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 10:12 PM 9/10/97 +0930, you wrote: >Hi All, > >Suggest those interested in Homopolar design should checkout : > >US> 4831299 Hayasaka Homopole Type AC Generator Thanks Greg, Reading this is an education on learning to read patents! It took me quite a while to figure what was prior art and what actually is "new" to reduce torque (I think it's the circular cutouts in the 2 end poles to open the magnetic circuit as the poles rotate.) -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 08:11:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id IAA21696; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709111507.IAA14811@germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: example of voltage as a scalar (B.B. Scalars} Resent-Message-ID: <"roz7J.0.nI5.yc06q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/661 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:16 PM 9/10/97 -0700, you wrote: >Dave Dameron wrote: > > > An example is 3 equal charges at the vertices of a equilateral >> triangle (120 deg. apart), calculate the resultant E field and voltage >> (potential) at the center. The E fields from each of the charges are >> added as vectors and cancel,thus E=0. The voltages add as scalars, each >> being the same distance, so V(total) = 3 times V from each charge. In fact 2 >> charges >> could be moved to the third, making 1 charge 3X, and the voltage isn't changed. > >Voltage relative to what? (Magnitude and direction please!) Hi Bob. The point in the example was no vector (direction) was used to sum the voltage contribution of each of the charges. Is this wrong? The final voltage is relative to the same point (center) without the charges present. This is approximated by any point far away from the charges. That's the conventional definition of potential of a charge. Where is the direction? >And what of Maxwell? Please explain what part of Maxwell to question. Thanks, -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 09:06:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA12061; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:05:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:05:27 -0700 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709111605.JAA01761@denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"KgWkP3.0.Fy2.6R16q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/662 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis, On 06:40 AM 9/11/97 -0400, you wrote: >Content-ID: <0_6939_873974406@emout19.mail.aol.com.1893> >Content-type: text/plain > >Hi all, > >You will find in my web site, an interesting device : A SCALAR WAVES >TRANSMITTER ( the SCW V1.0 )....This device uses a caduceus coil as a >translator and produces some weird results. > >With the Scalar Waves Transmitter ( SWT) V1.0 you will be able to do some >experiments with Scalar waves transmission. > >A simple test that you can perform with the SWT, is for instance : > >a) Take a AM pocket radio for LW band, select a broadcast radio with music >for instance, >b) Take a metal box, and put the radio into this metal box with the volume >set to the maximum output, >c) When the metal box is closed ( like a Faraday box ), all "normal" >electromagnetics waves cannot pass through this shield, if the metal of your >box is sufficiently thick... Now, you hear no more music.... >d) Take again your LW pocket radio and tune finely your SWT ( about 200 kHz >). Play with the keying switch to hear an BF tone like a Morse code tone. >e) Now, repeat the step (b)......and hear what happen.....Now, you will be >able to hear the BF tone clearly through the metal box !!! > >THE SCALAR WAVES ARE ABLE TO PASS THROUGH THE METAL SHIELD....... Interesting, this is exactly what Wilbert Smith found back in the '60's and what Tesla seemed to have been saying with his unique waves. Another effect noticed by Tesla was that the wave propagation travels farther than radio waves without any lost of signal strength and even faster than light speed, as described in one of his patents. Also interesting is that the radio receiver can pick-up the signal. Scalar theory said the the receiver had to be the reverse of the transmiter in order to translate the scalar wave back to emf. Sincerely, Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 09:11:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA13185; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:10:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:10:37 -0700 From: Steve_Kirkman_at_BI-USA@astec.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:47:50 -0700 Encoding: 36 Text To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re[2]: Some questions about Over Unity fourmulas Message-Id: <97Sep11.095426pdt.23079@firewall.astec.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"qX0eD1.0.wD3.yV16q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/663 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Isn't that "Just Do It"? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Some questions about Over Unity fourmulas Author: freenrg-l@eskimo.com at internet Date: 9/11/97 12:24 AM >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 steve-nyeoka@juno.com wrote: >> >>Now my two cents about your "safety"...GO FOR IT! Be safe by all means, >>but after researching go ahead and experiment! When I was in high school >>we made explosives (now THAT was stupid!!!!). No one gains any experience >>sitting on their behinds : ) >> >>Steve >> now that WAS stupid..(hummmmm) wasn't the NOBEL PRIZE founded on Nitro-(BANG)...never make explosives you up-starts you?!?!?!?! no never mind.. "Think, Read but never try anything NEW!!" (right..) I agree "GO FOR IT!" ...... duh= of course be safe who'd want a nobel prize, who'd want a better world..... naawhhh! never mind... as NikE would say (and plageristically i take it, as i don't think you can patent the 'obvious') ..... JUST GO FOR IT!! -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 10:02:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA10255; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:56:18 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Naudin Scalar Transmitter In-Reply-To: <970909132517_-632875021@emout01.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GnAdU1.0.8W2.fF26q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/665 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Some questions on the Scalar Transmitter: 1] How far is the AM radio away? 2] How does signal fall off with distance? 3] What is the type of material and thickness of box? 4] Are there any aspects of transmitter or receiver connected to the main power lines? 5] Is any part of the transmitter touching or near the inside of the box? 6] If the AM radio has ferrite antenna is the signal stronger or weaker with different orientation? ie., as per RDF, Radio Direction Finding technique? Thank you, JHS From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 10:02:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA22931; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:58:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:58:13 -0700 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709111658.JAA24783@pop1.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq@peseta.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"nxhqx1.0.7c5.aC26q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/664 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis, Have you checked the reception from a distance? It looks from the circuit like you're generating a pretty powerful signal... locally far more powerful than any AM radio reception would be. Is it possible that your transmitter is just generating such a strong EM field that it is getting through your shield? Dan Quickert >A simple test that you can perform with the SWT, is for instance : > >a) Take a AM pocket radio for LW band, select a broadcast radio with music >for instance, >b) Take a metal box, and put the radio into this metal box with the volume >set to the maximum output, >c) When the metal box is closed ( like a Faraday box ), all "normal" >electromagnetics waves cannot pass through this shield, if the metal of your >box is sufficiently thick... Now, you hear no more music.... >d) Take again your LW pocket radio and tune finely your SWT ( about 200 kHz >). Play with the keying switch to hear an BF tone like a Morse code tone. >e) Now, repeat the step (b)......and hear what happen.....Now, you will be >able to hear the BF tone clearly through the metal box !!! > >THE SCALAR WAVES ARE ABLE TO PASS THROUGH THE METAL SHIELD....... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 10:14:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA26848; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:13:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:13:58 -0700 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709111708.KAA14878@iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"7G4W3.0.OZ6.LR26q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/666 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 06:40 AM 9/11/97 -0400, Jean-Louis wrote: > >You will find in my web site, an interesting device : A SCALAR WAVES >TRANSMITTER ( the SCW V1.0 )....This device uses a caduceus coil as a >translator and produces some weird results. I still have questions about the Caduceus coil. It still appears to be a widely spaced 2-layer solenoid and isn't noninductive unless a 180 deg. turn is made in the wire at the top. In other words, at the crossings (nodes), the current is going the same direction and the axial magnetic fields ADD. So why is it a "scalar wave translator"??? Could someone please tell me? Maybe I should try it with a non-inductive bifilar instead. P.s. Can you tell by the radio in a shielded box if the "radiation" is coming from the caduceus coil, or to the RFC in series where most of the voltage waveform will be. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 11:32:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA25446; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:28:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:28:58 -0700 (PDT) From: fearl@airmail.net Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:33:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"7OvST3.0.SD6.ZX36q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/667 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > Interesting, this is exactly what Wilbert Smith found back in the '60's and > what Tesla seemed to have been saying with his unique waves. Another effect > noticed by Tesla was that the wave propagation travels farther than radio > waves without any lost of signal strength and even faster than light speed, > as described in one of his patents. Which patent was this one? Currently, I'm studying the lesser known (and even lesser used) patents. > Also interesting is that the radio receiver can pick-up the signal. Scalar > theory said the the receiver had to be the reverse of the transmiter in > order to translate the scalar wave back to emf. Hm. Let me postulate a possible reason. My understanding of scalar EM was that you could convert the scalar waves back into something usable under certain circumstances. A scalar magnetic wave, could, in theory, be possibly detected by an inductor. In the case of this example, an AM radio does NOT use an antenna, but rather a "loop" or an inductor for an antenna. If scalar magnetic waves can be detected under some or all cases by an inductor (because of it's nature) then the AM radio will detect them. Frank Earl- -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 13:09:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA08005; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970911150654.00696748@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:06:54 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Variable-Reluctance Generator. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"xUuUr.0.uy1.S-46q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/668 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, Another goodie from Machine Design magazine! September '97, Volume 69, number 17.... The picture of David Torrey, a researcher at Rensselaer, along with a rather large bit of iron, is displayed on page 35. It's a variable-reluctance generator designed for direct drive varaible speed applications, like wind power, operates at no more than 120rpm! Well, crud...there are no further details. Still, I'd like to see the drawings package for this baby! Best Regards, JD ---------------------------------------------------- "Somewhere between anticipation and nostalgia we should have been happy." -Too Much Coffee Man #1 E-mail to mules@palacenet.net ---------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 13:30:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA05033; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:28:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:28:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199709112121.QAA05243@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: Poynting vector probe -Patents Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:14:31 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6GRbg2.0.XE1.iH56q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/669 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > From: Dave Dameron > P.s. Did Hieronymous live over 1000 years ago, how can he have a > U.S. patent? (another one ? :-)) This is T. Galen Hieronymous, patent #2482773, "Detection of emanations from materials and measurement of the volumes thereof". Check out http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/hieronym/hieronym.htm The title is a dramatic understatement. This is basically a device for tuned and amplified dowsing, and the claims are so remarkable that I don't know how it got through the patent office. It obviously employs von Reichenbach's theories of the "Od" force (no I am not thinking of Reich and "OR" -- but isn't it funny how all this comes together if it doesn't exist?), though it doesn't mention that at any point. As for the patent which started this thread, I've got to get out my copy of The Montauk Project and re-read what Preston Nichols says about the transducers on the radiosonde which he claims really deal with orgone rather than temperature. (No, I am not endorsing the Montauk claims, but Nichols is a radionics expert.) "I don't want the world -- I just want your half." --T.M.B.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 15:01:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA23702; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:00:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:00:39 -0700 Message-ID: <3418684D.7019F0D5@microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 07:23:17 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server Freenrg Subject: Re: Over unity Prizes X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199709110302.WAA12188@natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Gf8F41.0.Fo5.6e66q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/670 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > At 07:32 AM 9/11/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: > > >Unless the US Patent system is rubbish, there are already plenty of OU > >devices in existence. > > Greg, you share what appears to be a common misconception among persons > living outside the US. A device does NOT have to actually work in order for > a US Patent to be issued on it. All that is required is that the inventor > claim unique properties for the device. The US Patent office now makes no > attempt to verify the inventor's claims. > > Since we're all still driving gasoline powered cars and there is no > imminently viable alternative on the horizon it is a reasonably safe bet > that ALL the extant US patents for o-u devices are bullshit. > > Scott Little Hi Scott, IS the cost of a patent also ZERO in the US?. Seems lots of folks are spending $10,000+ on nothing. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 15:48:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA00478; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:48:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709111708.KAA14878@iceland.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:46:55 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"-YZA13.0.N7.yK76q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/671 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 1:08 PM -0400 9/11/97, Dave Dameron wrote: > >I still have questions about the Caduceus coil. It still appears to be a >widely I do too... >spaced 2-layer solenoid and isn't noninductive unless a 180 deg. turn is made my understanding of the caduceus design is that the windings should be as closely spaced as any other coil. of course, I've never seen any photos of a caduceus before, only the drawings, and I assume that the wide spacing that they use is for illustration purposes only. >in the wire at the top. In other words, at the crossings (nodes), the >current is going the same direction and the axial magnetic fields ADD. So right, for a caduceus to be non-inductive, both ends need to be shorted and the segments are driven in parallel... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 16:20:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA04107; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3418A50E.4E7B@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:12:30 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7me9s.0.001.9o76q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/672 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: fearl@airmail.net wrote: > > Also interesting is that the radio receiver can pick-up the signal. Scalar > > theory said the the receiver had to be the reverse of the transmiter in > > order to translate the scalar wave back to emf. > > Hm. Let me postulate a possible reason. My understanding of scalar > EM was that you could convert the scalar waves back into something > usable under certain circumstances. A scalar magnetic wave, could, > in theory, be possibly detected by an inductor. In the case of this > example, an AM radio does NOT use an antenna, but rather a "loop" or > an inductor for an antenna. If scalar magnetic waves can be detected > under some or all cases by an inductor (because of it's nature) then > the AM radio will detect them. I don't agree that a scalar would be detected by an inductor. This is contrary to my understanding of published scalar theory. Scalar waves may interact with non-linear devices and produce an EM product, so perhaps its the transistor junctions reacting to the scalar wave, rather than the linear inductors. But Jean-Louis is using a caduceus coil. A poster recently gave results of the inductance of conventional, (opposed) bifilar, and caduceus coils. Indeed the caduceus coil is far more inductive than the bifilar coil. It may be that the EM emission from this device is far more powerful than the more distnant radio stations, and may partially saturate the shielding. This can be directly tested by placing a large diameter coil inside the box, and measuring any EM current induced by the transmitter. We must be sure this is not EM leakage. Are there any measurments of the EM output of the transmitter? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 16:23:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA04685 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:23:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: milkman@toddsnet.com Thu Sep 11 16:23:10 1997 Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA04641 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA19576 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:21:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mhl-ca1-25.ix.netcom.com(205.184.186.57) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma019560; Thu Sep 11 18:20:44 1997 Message-ID: <34187B7B.479E@toddsnet.com> Old-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:15:07 -0700 From: annoymous X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: The ending of " some questions about over unity formulas " Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: ( I e-mailed Mr. Huffman about his post, and in his reply told me to post it so I did :) // Also in case you have'nt figured it out the mesages with " > " are the stuff form me and the regular is form him ( I shure hope you guys could figure that out :) ) \\ Hey Ryan, >Wow!! I did not know that my simple ' playing " around with >electo-chemistry ( is that what you called it ?? ) now I am quite >worried about the verry young youth of the world becaouse that experment >was in a CHILDREN's science book that I found laying around the house. >But hear is something more discriptive of the experment, >12 variable power supply ( DC ) Any idea what the rated current is on your power supply? Was the power supply part of the experiment described in the children's science book or did they recommend a small battery (like a 9v)? >The copper was the anode, but I am not shure of the impuritys that where >in it since I just melted down some pennies in metal shop class ( well >my teach did) and the copper was the one that contunied to emit the >hydrogen not the nickle so it turned out to be the compleat oppsite of >what you said?? >The nickel was prepared the same way, but nickles are not made of only >nickle. Two things here, first if you search the web, you should be able to find the composition of the coins. The amount of precious metals in a coin varies from year to year, so you'll have to know the year that the coins were minted. I suggest looking for a newsgroup that specializes in coin collecting (philatilists sp?), and asking there. The US Treasury publishes the information, so it shouldn't take you more than a half an hour or so to find. The actual quantity of nickel and copper in coins is quite small (>10%), especially in coins minted in the last 3 decades, if I recall correctly. There was one year during WWII that pennies were made entirely of steel - no copper at all. I used to have a few of those, but I don't know where they are now. Secondly, Dieter Britz, a physics/electrochemistry professor in Germany, maintains a huge database of scientific reports dealing with the subject of Cold Fusion. You can find his website by searching his name. I haven't read all of the reports, but I have read quite a large number of them, and they all say that the Hydrogen evolves at the cathode. As far as I know, Hydrogen will absorb into any metal electrode, so perhaps you have your anode and cathode confused. > >I am curious... is the electrolytic cell the whole system, or some thing >compleatly different?? >And I have yet to machine a good aluminum casing on my lathe to be able >to mesure the presure. > Well, technically, there is no such thing as a closed system. Isolating all of the power inputs and outputs for proper measurement is a science in and of itself and is not only challenging to real physicists, but the equipment is also quite expensive. Your DC power supply for example can be measured with an inexpensive digital voltage/current meter for a rough analysis, but nobody will take the results seriously unless you include a "ripple factor" measurement. For this you need a decent oscilloscope, and pretty good math skills. >Well I concluded'ed that I wont post this to the list, but instead just >e-mail it too you since it might be concidered a rebuttle and that is >not what it is ment as.... > You can post this to the group if you like. I don't mind. By the way, I will repeat that I am not discouraging you from scientific pursuits - even the hands on experimenting. In fact, I admire your enthusiasm and motivations. I am simply encouraging you to read more about the dangers of what you are doing before proceeding any further, and take the proper safety precautions. Also, I get the impression that you are working with a closed cell. I would not recommend that you do this at your age, but if you do, put a gauge on it so that you know what the pressure is, and if the pressure gets any higher than 10 PSI, turn it off. Also, install a valve on the cell so that you can safely control the release of any pressurixed gas that builds up. Release the pressure slowly in front of a strong fan so that the gases are immediately mixed with air. This will prevent the hydrogen (which you can't see or smell) from pooling in dangerous amounts. Also, find out what the dispersion rate is for hydrogen through aluminum. I don't know for sure, but I think it is fairly high. From what I understand, Stainless Steel will contain the stuff better. There are many other safety procedures such as keeping a fire extinguisher within arms reach, keeping a telephone with 911 keyed into the speed dialer within arms reach, sandbagging your cell, observing your cell with mirrors and a video camera instead of your eyes, working with a partner, etc., that are standard lab safety procedures. Wear gloves, goggles, the proper gas mask, a lab coat or a welder's leather coat and hood when handling explosive or toxic chemicals Don't run with scissors, wipe your eyes with chemicals on your hands, or put things into your mouth - you know, the usual stuff. These procedures can also be found by doing a web search. You should learn this stuff, and practice it religiously. Always be awake and alert, and ready to respond to an emergency situatation when doing your experiments, and you will increase the safety factor of your experimentation a great deal. Now that I think about it, go ahead and post this to freenrg-l. In all the time I've been on that list, I haven't seen any mention of any specific safety protocols, and I've been reading it since it started. Live long and prosper. -Knuke > > Ryan Parrish > parrish@ix.netcom.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 16:34:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA06709 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:34:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:34:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: little@eden.com Thu Sep 11 16:34:12 1997 Received: from natasha.eden.com (root@natasha.eden.com [199.171.21.14]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA06672; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matrix.eden.com (net-2-102.austin.eden.com [206.81.246.102]) by natasha.eden.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA22498; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:32:48 -0500 (CDT) Old-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:32:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709112332.SAA22498@natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little@mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Over unity Prizes Cc: List Server Freenrg X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: At 07:23 9/12/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >IS the cost of a patent also ZERO in the US?. > >Seems lots of folks are spending $10,000+ on nothing. Bingo! Well, I guess it depends on how you define "lots of folks". If only 1% of the US Patents are just ego trips for some delusional inventor, that makes over 50,000 worthless patents. Is that a lot? Scott From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 16:36:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA10797; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:36:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:36:28 -0700 Message-ID: <3418A951.3438@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:30:41 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: example of voltage as a scalar (B.B. Scalars} References: <199709111507.IAA14811@germany.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cm3Hd1.0.ce2.w186q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/673 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dave Dameron wrote: > >Voltage relative to what? (Magnitude and direction please!) > > Hi Bob. The point in the example was no vector (direction) was used to sum > the voltage contribution of each of the charges. Is this wrong? Specifically, no, generaly, yes. What if all the charges were not of the same sign? > The final voltage is relative to the same point (center) without the charges > present. So your measuring 'voltage' at a point, relative to that same point at another time, after you introduced the charges? That is not a valid measurment. > This is approximated by any point far away from the charges. Now that is a valid measurment. If we perform this measurment, we will find both the value, and sign of the voltage. This defines a vector, not a scalar value. > That's the conventional definition of potential of a charge. Where is the > direction? Voltage is not "potential of a charge". Voltage is the potential difference between two points. This must be described with both magnetiude and direction (polarity). > >And what of Maxwell? > Please explain what part of Maxwell to question. Have you been reading this thread? > Most of us recognize J.C. Maxwell as an authority on the matter, so I'll quote > from his book: " A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism", 3rd edition, > Art. 11 - "Meaning of the words Scalar and Vector." > > "One of the most important features of Hamilton's method is the division of > quantities into Scalars and Vectors. > A Scalar quantity is capable of being completely defined by a single numerical > specification. Its numerical value does not in anyway depend on the directions > we assume for the coordinate axes. > A Vector, or Directed quantity, requires for its definition three numerical > specifications, and these may most simply be understood as having reference to > the directions of the coordinate axes. > Scalar quantities do not involve direction. The volume of a geometrical figure, > the mass and the energy of a material body, the hydrostatical pressure at a > point in a fluid, and the potential at a point in space, are examples of scalar > quantities. > A vector quantity has direction as well as magnitude, and is such that a > reversal of its direction reverses its sign. The displacement of a point, > represented by a straight line drawn from its original to its final position, > may be taken as the typical vector quantity, from which indeed the name Vector > is derived. > The velocity of a body, its momentum, the force acting on it, an electric > current, the magnetization of a particle of iron, are instances of vector > quantities. I hope this helps clear things up. An electrometer will read the charge at a point, but a voltmeter measures a vector quantity, having magnetuide and direction. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 16:40:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA11933; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:40:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:40:38 -0700 From: Steve_Kirkman_at_BI-USA@astec.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:52:10 -0700 Encoding: 26 Text To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re[2]: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Message-Id: <97Sep11.172426pdt.23072@firewall.astec.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"X4tAM1.0.Fw2.r586q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/674 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Frank, I like the notice at the bottom of your message. I heard of someone doing this for telephone solicitors. How effective is it at deterring unsolicited email? Have you been able to collect from anyone? Just curious.. Steve Kirkman ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Author: freenrg-l@eskimo.com at internet Date: 9/11/97 11:35 AM Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 16:43:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA12602; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:43:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:43:15 -0700 Message-ID: <34188071.3D72@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:36:17 -0700 From: annoymous X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: The ending of " some questions about over unity formulas " Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"f1gZR.0.n43.I886q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/675 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ( I e-mailed Mr. Huffman about his post, and in his reply told me to post it so I did :) // Also in case you have'nt figured it out the mesages with " > " are the stuff form me and the regular is form him ( I shure hope you guys could figure that out :) ) \\ Hey Ryan, >Wow!! I did not know that my simple ' playing " around with >electo-chemistry ( is that what you called it ?? ) now I am quite >worried about the verry young youth of the world becaouse that experment >was in a CHILDREN's science book that I found laying around the house. >But hear is something more discriptive of the experment, >12 variable power supply ( DC ) Any idea what the rated current is on your power supply? Was the power supply part of the experiment described in the children's science book or did they recommend a small battery (like a 9v)? >The copper was the anode, but I am not shure of the impuritys that where >in it since I just melted down some pennies in metal shop class ( well >my teach did) and the copper was the one that contunied to emit the >hydrogen not the nickle so it turned out to be the compleat oppsite of >what you said?? >The nickel was prepared the same way, but nickles are not made of only >nickle. Two things here, first if you search the web, you should be able to find the composition of the coins. The amount of precious metals in a coin varies from year to year, so you'll have to know the year that the coins were minted. I suggest looking for a newsgroup that specializes in coin collecting (philatilists sp?), and asking there. The US Treasury publishes the information, so it shouldn't take you more than a half an hour or so to find. The actual quantity of nickel and copper in coins is quite small (>10%), especially in coins minted in the last 3 decades, if I recall correctly. There was one year during WWII that pennies were made entirely of steel - no copper at all. I used to have a few of those, but I don't know where they are now. Secondly, Dieter Britz, a physics/electrochemistry professor in Germany, maintains a huge database of scientific reports dealing with the subject of Cold Fusion. You can find his website by searching his name. I haven't read all of the reports, but I have read quite a large number of them, and they all say that the Hydrogen evolves at the cathode. As far as I know, Hydrogen will absorb into any metal electrode, so perhaps you have your anode and cathode confused. > >I am curious... is the electrolytic cell the whole system, or some thing >compleatly different?? >And I have yet to machine a good aluminum casing on my lathe to be able >to mesure the presure. > Well, technically, there is no such thing as a closed system. Isolating all of the power inputs and outputs for proper measurement is a science in and of itself and is not only challenging to real physicists, but the equipment is also quite expensive. Your DC power supply for example can be measured with an inexpensive digital voltage/current meter for a rough analysis, but nobody will take the results seriously unless you include a "ripple factor" measurement. For this you need a decent oscilloscope, and pretty good math skills. >Well I concluded'ed that I wont post this to the list, but instead just >e-mail it too you since it might be concidered a rebuttle and that is >not what it is ment as.... > You can post this to the group if you like. I don't mind. By the way, I will repeat that I am not discouraging you from scientific pursuits - even the hands on experimenting. In fact, I admire your enthusiasm and motivations. I am simply encouraging you to read more about the dangers of what you are doing before proceeding any further, and take the proper safety precautions. Also, I get the impression that you are working with a closed cell. I would not recommend that you do this at your age, but if you do, put a gauge on it so that you know what the pressure is, and if the pressure gets any higher than 10 PSI, turn it off. Also, install a valve on the cell so that you can safely control the release of any pressurixed gas that builds up. Release the pressure slowly in front of a strong fan so that the gases are immediately mixed with air. This will prevent the hydrogen (which you can't see or smell) from pooling in dangerous amounts. Also, find out what the dispersion rate is for hydrogen through aluminum. I don't know for sure, but I think it is fairly high. From what I understand, Stainless Steel will contain the stuff better. There are many other safety procedures such as keeping a fire extinguisher within arms reach, keeping a telephone with 911 keyed into the speed dialer within arms reach, sandbagging your cell, observing your cell with mirrors and a video camera instead of your eyes, working with a partner, etc., that are standard lab safety procedures. Wear gloves, goggles, the proper gas mask, a lab coat or a welder's leather coat and hood when handling explosive or toxic chemicals Don't run with scissors, wipe your eyes with chemicals on your hands, or put things into your mouth - you know, the usual stuff. These procedures can also be found by doing a web search. You should learn this stuff, and practice it religiously. Always be awake and alert, and ready to respond to an emergency situatation when doing your experiments, and you will increase the safety factor of your experimentation a great deal. Now that I think about it, go ahead and post this to freenrg-l. In all the time I've been on that list, I haven't seen any mention of any specific safety protocols, and I've been reading it since it started. Live long and prosper. -Knuke > > Ryan Parrish > parrish@ix.netcom.com > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 16:53:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA10279; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3418ACCE.789F@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:45:34 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Poynting vector probe -Patents References: <199709112121.QAA05243@csrlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-KjJ-1.0.WW2.5H86q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/676 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote: > (No, I am not endorsing the Montauk > claims, but Nichols is a radionics expert.) Have you seen his "multi-megawatt" power lines and transformers on the Montauk video tape? (standard pole pig, no multi-megawatts here!) Maybe radionics has different watts than the rest of reality? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 16:55:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA14990; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:54:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:54:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3418ADA4.785D@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:49:08 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Over unity Prizes References: <199709110302.WAA12188@natasha.eden.com> <3418684D.7019F0D5@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"in64-2.0.6g3.CJ86q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/677 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > Since we're all still driving gasoline powered cars and there is no > > imminently viable alternative on the horizon it is a reasonably safe bet > > that ALL the extant US patents for o-u devices are bullshit. > > > > Scott Little > > Hi Scott, > > IS the cost of a patent also ZERO in the US?. > > Seems lots of folks are spending $10,000+ on nothing. $10,000 is short money for vanity. Look at some of these patents, its clear that some are of no practical value at all. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 19:00:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA08320; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:58:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:58:50 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970911213628_1684421259@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: off line 5-7 days Resent-Message-ID: <"G3FK33.0.l12.O7A6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/678 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, My harddrive is down and backordered 5 to 7 days. I will answer e-mail when I'm back up and running. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 20:39:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA10342; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709120337.UAA03799@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"q1uvK2.0.VX2.4bB6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/679 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 01:33 PM 9/11/97 +0000, Frank Earl wrote: >> Interesting, this is exactly what Wilbert Smith found back in the '60's and >> what Tesla seemed to have been saying with his unique waves. Another effect >> noticed by Tesla was that the wave propagation travels farther than radio >> waves without any lost of signal strength and even faster than light speed, >> as described in one of his patents. > >Which patent was this one? Currently, I'm studying the lesser known >(and even lesser used) patents. USA Patent 787,412 "Art of Transmitting Electrical Energy Through the Natural Mediums," Filed 1900, issued 1905. Regards, Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 20:53:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA28388; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:52:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:52:37 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 15:50 NZST X-Sender: srae@shoppe.mlb.planet.gen.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz (Stuart Rae) Subject: Re: Poynting vector probe -Patents X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"N1kNT3.0.Sx6.4oB6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/680 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, "Jim Shaffer, Jr." wrote: > >This is T. Galen Hieronymous, patent #2482773, "Detection of emanations >from materials and measurement of the volumes thereof". Check out >http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/hieronym/hieronym.htm.......... > >snip Now I don't know what this Montauk Project thing is, but the following may be of interest to some. More than forty odd years ago, I replicated this particular patent in various forms, and with various degrees of success. And I might add, with sufficient success to convince me (a complete "Doubting Thomas" at the time) that I was observing some kind of consistent and reproducible phenomena, that did not appear to be explained by conventional science or electronics. How I once became interested in this subject may also be of slight interest. I was working at an AM broadcasting station at the time, that ran a 20 kilowatt transmitter fed into a 400 feet vertical aerial. Several aerial guy wires needed repairs or replacement, so we decided to excavate and pour a number of concrete blocks as temporary anchor guy points, so the riggers could get the job done more efficiently outside of broadcasting hours. The only problem was, we didn't have good records of exactly where the radiating earth mat was, and needed it carefully re-surveyed anyway. This particular job was part of the contracting engineers responsibility. On the appointed survey day a young engineer turned up, opened the boot of his car and took out a bag of survey pegs, a hammer and a couple of light metal rods bent at the ends into short handles. I asked him what they were, and he said they were for locating the aerial earth mat wires (about 9 to 12 inches underground(!!??). Fearing the very worst, I quickly grabbed a pair of headphones and a metal detector, and we headed for the aerial paddock. As we worked our way around the entire mat, he walked with the two rods extended out in front of him, and whenever the rods swung gently outwards from each other, and precisely in line, he would bang another survey peg in the ground. The transmitter was OFF at the time! Unconvinced, I followed about ten feet behind him with my metal detector, as he carefully surveyed each wire in the mat. And I can tell you honestly, that my metal detector agreed PRECISELY (to within an inch at most!) with his two, cheap, bent metal rods. When I asked him how the h___ they worked, he just looked blank and said he didn't have a clue! But he did have some idea they were standard equipment in Chicago for water engineers to locate pipes!! (I never did follow THAT one up!!). I can also tell you, that not one of those earth wires was cut by the excavating machines, the job was done quickly and efficiently, and we ended up with an extremely detailed and accurate survey map of every buried earth wire! Just thought you might be interested......:-) Regards, SR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 21:12:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA31249; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:12:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:12:07 -0700 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:16:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709120416.AAA09500@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Over unity Prizes Resent-Message-ID: <"GRVCT1.0.8e7.L4C6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/681 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 07:23 AM 9/12/97 +093nt US patents for o-u devices are bullshit. >> >> Scott Little > >Hi Scott, > >IS the cost of a patent also ZERO in the US?. > >Seems lots of folks are spending $10,000+ on nothing. > >-- >Best Regards, > Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson > > The price to pay for an ego trip varies but some are willing to do it.My opinion is that patents are good for historical markers. A patent is only as good as your ability to protect it.If you cant aford the legal fee to prevent unauthorized use you may as well give up your rights. The patent office is not in the business of defending claims. Other inventers will patent a technology because they think it might work and want a jump on the competition. I learned long ago just because there is a patent on something dosn't mean it works. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 22:10:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA06840; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:10:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:10:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199709120603.BAA28461@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:10:11 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xLJyv2.0.dg1.fwC6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/682 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > Also interesting is that the radio receiver can pick-up the signal. Scalar > theory said the the receiver had to be the reverse of the transmiter in > order to translate the scalar wave back to emf. Somewhere I've read that the scalar wave interferes with the flow of electrons in the semiconductors in the radio. "I don't want the world -- I just want your half." --T.M.B.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 22:31:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA23196; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3418E1EF.12AE@airmail.net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:32:15 -0600 From: "Frank C. Earl" Organization: Earl Consulting Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 References: <97Sep11.172426pdt.23072@firewall.astec.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RdRxt2.0.6g5.2ED6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/683 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Steve_Kirkman_at_BI-USA@astec.com wrote: > > Hi Frank, > > I like the notice at the bottom of your message. I heard of someone > doing this for telephone solicitors. How effective is it at deterring > unsolicited email? Have you been able to collect from anyone? > > Just curious.. Not collected anything (yet), but I've reduced my UCE intake by about 20-30% at least when I did the .sig changes. Seems the people sending bulk e-mail are less enthusiastic about it when someone bills them for the trouble they're causing people. Frank- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 11 22:38:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA11918; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:38:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:38:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3418E3F9.7FB@airmail.net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:40:57 -0600 From: "Frank C. Earl" Organization: Earl Consulting Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Over unity Prizes References: <199709110302.WAA12188@natasha.eden.com> <3418684D.7019F0D5@microtronics.com.au> <3418ADA4.785D@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pgApD1.0.1w2._KD6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/684 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Seems lots of folks are spending $10,000+ on nothing. > > $10,000 is short money for vanity. Look at some of these patents, its > clear that some are of no practical value at all. I don't know about you, Bob, but I could think of a LOT of other things I could be spending $10k on that would leave me with my vanity asuaged and have something in hand for it. Like use it for down on an Excalibur Cobra roadster, buy a honkin' big & fast PC, etc. $10k is a lot more money than you think. Also, claiming that the patent is not practical value-wise is not the same as proving it so. Remember, the Wright bros. did what others didn't think was practical or even doable. My distant relatives did it anyhow and it's one of the most important modes of travel now. Reality is, that we don't deep down know what is and isn't practical or valid. Anyone that does claim that we do is setting themselves up for a fall. Frank Earl- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 05:38:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA25653; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:36:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:36:52 -0700 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:50:15 +1000 Message-Id: <199709121450.AAA02514@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Need a circuit diagram for a brushless DC motor Resent-Message-ID: <"Kci3o1.0.gG6.ZTJ6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/685 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Could some one on this newsgroup please send me a circuit diagram for a brushless dc motor using a hall effect device in a gif or jpeg format many thanks Geoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 05:40:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA26137; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:40:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:40:14 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCBF80.C9FDBDE0@que3-p4.telepac.pt> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Scalar x Vector voltage, Bearden seems to know it. Or not? Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:35:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"DtJX53.0.IO6.kWJ6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/686 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello Bob and everyone, I'm going to be out for holidays so you won't hear from me for a couple = of week. I know you'll miss me :-))), but I really must go. But before that, I would like to leave a few ideas on what we have been = discussing. For those who look at Bearden as an authority on the subject, you may = take interest in his article "Chasing the wild dragon", which can be found at: http://www.hsv.com/writers/bearden/page001.htm there's a line on table 1 that reads: "6.development and utilization of a "hidden" electrodynamics inside = the scalar potential (inside voltage)." which I think to be very relevant to this discussion. I may, of course, = be wrong but I look at it as a clear "black & white" identification of "voltage" with "the = scalar potential". I found this quite by chance, as I was looking for other things, and = indeed it was a surprise. I never thought I would find such a clear statement. Usually, these = concepts are introduced at a very early stage, and seldom discussed. Of course, this proves nothing. As I wrote earlier, this Scalar and = Vector classification is quite arbitrary, depending on the particular scientist and the way he = views things. However, there is a tradition and a common body of knowledge in this = field we call Classical Physics, that says voltage is a scalar quantity. It's laws are = expressed assuming this. We have other examples within CEM to show us that this is so: Take the ordinary concept of current. Although current is a vector, and = there are vector equations to express it's dependence on the E-field, charge density, speed, etc., = everyone defines a current in a wire as a scalar quantity, expressing the net charge flow through = the wire. This "new" current is independent of the directions of space, as the entire wire is (for = this purpose) viewed as a=20 current line, with no section (this is not exact, but it serves the = purpose of illustration). "Space" in this case is unidimensional. Luckily enough, use has been found to this view, and G.S. Ohm wrote his famous law involving scalar = quantities. When he says V=3DI.R, he really doesn't care about the particular = directions in space. He simply assumes that the charge flow is along some current tube, and is proportional to = the line integral of the E-field along any current line in this tube. Rigorous definitions of this are, of course, possible, but useless in = this discussion. Well, I'd rather people would understand and accept this than saying = "bah, he's right because Bearden says so", as in the first case the resulting concepts would be = operational and productive,=20 while in the second they would be a limitation. But it's time to go. While you are reading this I will probably be = dancing my way to the beach, to catch those nasty vector EM radiations from the sun, and stay there all day = long thinking on if there is some sort of cancellation within the sun's activity so as to produce = some beneficial scalar UVs. Best regards, Ant=F3nio Vilela P.S. - Don't miss our next episode, where the question "Is it really = possible to have a field cancelled?" will be made, as our hero wonders "why is the magnetic field between = adjacent wires of a bifilar coil so intense?". Stay tuned. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 06:14:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA32196; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 06:13:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 06:13:42 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:17:54 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: *ULTIMATE VIRUS WARNING* Resent-Message-ID: <"JjYjp.0.zs7.50K6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/687 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: WARNING!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!! ****************ULTIMATE VIRUS WARNING************************ If you receive an e-mail with a subject line of "Badtimes," delete it immediately WITHOUT reading it. This is the most dangerous E-mail virus yet!!!!!! Worse than Penpal Greetings or any other. It will re-write your hard drive. Not only that, but it will scramble any disks that are even close to your computer. It will recalibrate your refrigerator's coolness setting so all your ice cream melts and your milk curdles. It will demagnetize the strips on all your credit cards, reprogram your ATM access code, screw up the tracking on your VCR and use subspace field harmonics to scratch any CDs you try to play. It will give your ex-boy/girlfriend (ex-husband/wife) your new phone number. It will mix antifreeze into your fish tank. It will drink all your beer and leave its dirty socks on the coffee table when there's company coming over. It will hide your car keys when you are late for work and interfere with your car radio so that you hear only static while stuck in traffic. Badtimes will make you fall in love with a hardened pedophile. It will give you nightmares about circus midgets. It will replace your shampoo with Nair and your Nair with Rogaine, all while dating your current boy/girlfriend (husband/wife) behind your back and billing their hotel rendezvous to your Visa card. It will seduce your grandmother. It does not matter if she is dead, such is the power of Badtimes. It reaches out beyond the grave to sully those things we hold most dear. Badtimes will give you Dutch Elm disease. It will give your pet dog, cat, bird, or fish "Mad Cow disease." It will leave the toilet seat up and leave the hairdryer plugged in dangerously close to a full bathtub. It will not only remove the forbidden tags from your mattresses and pillows, it will refill your skim milk with whole. It is insidious and subtle. It is dangerous and terrifying to behold. It is also a rather interesting shade of mauve. These are just a few of the signs. _____________________________ Friday follies..... :-))) LOL.... Evan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 09:05:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA14054; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:04:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Keasy@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970912113645_1390379604@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"fAqOA2.0.QR3.kVM6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/688 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Regarding your SWT test: It seems to me that, in regard to your SWT, the metal box with the radio will be in it's near field, so comparing results with the far fields of radio transmitters is not conclusive. Possibly a more instructive test would be to also try a conventional NWT (normal wave transmitter) of about the same input power as the SWT. Then if the SWT penetrates the box but the NWT does not (both operating in the near field), the results become much more interesting. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 09:20:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA16145; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970905185343.006acc9c@multinet.net.il> X-Sender: BUSHI@multinet.net.il X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 18:53:43 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lev Robert Subject: Re: Tesla Car Circuit In-Reply-To: <92921@.multinet.net.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"GzCj81.0.9y3.okM6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/689 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi John Where on earth have you get the Tesla car electric circuit. I was looking for it for a long time??? Robert At 11:28 AM 05-09-97 GMT+0200, you wrote: > >Hi Folks, :) >I was toying with a few ideas re the tesla electric car circuits described >in the Teslafe material. >I thought of replaceing the vacuum tubes with 2N2222 transistors, and the >resistors with trim pots, to tune them to the right resistance. >Any thoughts re component values, diode choices, or anything like that? >Thanks in advance! >Regards, >John > > > > BUSHILEV From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 09:37:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA07077; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:36:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:36:48 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: eden@net1plus.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:14:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: wally wheel Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <19970912160315832.AAA63@ga01-30.NET1PLUS.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Y3-_x3.0.Pk1.T-M6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/690 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: got the propane tanks My local taylor rental guy gave them to me cause they were over 12 years old. some of them were full of propane. has anyone built this puppy? (wally wheel?) I want the 8 hp 24/day don't really care if its overunity. thought I could dovetail it with a hydrogen generator/battery system to store the 8/hp/24 hr a day. could use some tips/insights/precautions.. to get started I assume the propane bottle should be installed valve side down on the bottom of the wheel so the heated expanding gas pushes the liquid gas to the top of the wheel? 8/hp/24 hr a day locally generated not taxed might be enough to provide a reasonable quality of life(hot water, home heat, greenhouse heat) for those that wish to live free Am I nuts or is this do-able right now? 8/hp/24 hr a day From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 10:00:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA20704 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:00:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: tgirard@tumbleweed.com Fri Sep 12 10:00:04 1997 Received: from tumbleweed1.tumbleweed.com (tumbleweed1.envoy.com [207.220.220.4]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA20661 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dev1.tumbleweed.com ([207.220.220.5]) by tumbleweed1.tumbleweed.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11773) with SMTP id AAA221 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:54:05 -0700 Received: from EPSON by dev1.tumbleweed.com via smtpd (for tumbleweed1.tumbleweed.com [207.220.220.4]) with SMTP; 12 Sep 1997 16:56:07 UT Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:55:21 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCBF61.FB904400.tgirard@tumbleweed.com> From: Timothy Girard Reply-To: "tgirard@tumbleweed.com" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Some questions about Over Unity fourmulas Old-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:44:39 -0700 Organization: Tumbleweed Software X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: Dito Wood Man, instead of acting like someones dad (Who ever listen to their dads) we should be steering the Grapeanator in the right direction or give some encourging reasons why the areas he's in might not be the right starting points. Personally, I think now is a great time for Ryan to possibly delve into magnetics. I know I am. Peace -T -----Original Message----- From: wood [SMTP:richard.wood@usa.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 1997 1:34 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Some questions about Over Unity fourmulas At 05:01 AM 9/10/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hey Grape Boy, > > Before you blow yourself up or drive the rest of this group nuts, do >me a favor. COME ON GIVE THE KID A BREAK. Here is a young man not afraid to use his hands as well as his mind in a higher than normal level of persuit.Don't tell him to go read a book and let old farts do the work.Would you have told that to Tesla because he was working in an unexplored dangerous area? " Hey Grape boy" go for it, use caution but don't let fear of the unknown stop you.The world only advances if someone takes a chance and is not afraid to fail.Observe and study. Read whenever you are curious about a topic or to understand what you have seen.Ask questions even dumb ones.Last week I was asking dumb questions about back e.m.f. because I didn't know and some things did not add up in my mind.I too started working on perpetual motion in high school. I built one of the original Timex zx 81 computers with a wooping 1 k ram. This winter I will be building a man carrying flying replica of a Canadian fighter jet called the Arrow.I suffer the slings and arrows of know it all helpfull people but do not let them discourage me because I will learn all I need to know to do the job safely because my hide is important to me.Just because it hasn't been done before does not make it impossible or unattemptable. Use your imagination and have fun but do it as safe as you can. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 10:25:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA28350; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:25:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:25:13 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970912132105.008e0e40@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:21:08 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"U_-h91.0.gw6.shN6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/691 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:37 AM 9/12/97 -0400, you wrote: >Regarding your SWT test: > It seems to me that, in regard to your SWT, the metal box with the radio >will be in it's near field, so comparing results with the far fields of radio >transmitters is not conclusive. Possibly a more instructive test would be to >also try a conventional NWT (normal wave transmitter) of about the same input >power as the SWT. Then if the SWT penetrates the box but the NWT does not >(both operating in the near field), the results become much more interesting. > Ken Keasy@aol.com > Actually, THAT particular test may have already been done by a scalar research/biologist Dr Glen Rein, using living organisms as the receivers.. See: I think we all want to see tests where 'everything' is shielded ..where the power supply is also contained within the thick metal Faraday cages, and where there are NO connections of any kind... not even ground connections. Colin Quinney From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 10:44:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA01546; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:42:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:42:07 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:38:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970912133620_-1533593048@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: bshannon@tiac.net, fepps@mail1.halcyon.com, fearl@airmail.net Subject: Re : Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"XnNFz.0.yN.jxN6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/692 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Bob and All, on 12/09/1997 12:26:43 , Bob Shannon wrote: << I don't agree that a scalar would be detected by an inductor. This is contrary to my understanding of published scalar theory. Scalar waves may interact with non-linear devices and produce an EM product, so perhaps its the transistor junctions reacting to the scalar wave, rather than the linear inductors. >> I agree with you concerning that pure scalar wave can't be detected by an inductor. BUT this is the case for an air core inductor....When this inductor have a ferrite core (non linear like ferroxcube), the scalar wave may change the properties ( permeability ) of this ferrite core thus the frequence of the local oscillator ( of the superheterodyne radio receiver ), this fact need to be proved experimentaly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------- << But Jean-Louis is using a caduceus coil. A poster recently gave results of the inductance of conventional, (opposed) bifilar, and caduceus coils. Indeed the caduceus coil is far more inductive than the bifilar coil. >> Yes in a latest experiment I have tested the bifilar coil properties ( see in my web site "Bifilar coils Vs Bucking coils" ). A real bifilar coil does not produce "normal" EM emission. The only spike than we can detect when the current began to flow, is the the current generated by the fast drop of the inductance which begin to be a pure resistor ( parametric effect ). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- << It may be that the EM emission from this device is far more powerful than the more distnant radio stations, and may partially saturate the shielding. This can be directly tested by placing a large diameter coil inside the box, and measuring any EM current induced by the transmitter. We must be sure this is not EM leakage. Are there any measurments of the EM output of the transmitter? >> Now, I have planned a lot of experiments and tests about my Scalar Waves Transmitter (SWT), and you will find some reports about these tests soon. The caduceus coil is VERY different compared to the bifilar coil. I think that Bifilar coil is appropriate for generating scalar potential, but a caduceus coil is interesting for generating scalar waves ( currently named scalar O-Waves, Tesla waves or Scalar stress waves ), this is my point of view, "today". The caduceus coil act a translator, from a wave aspect, the E-Field and the B-Fields of two waves do superpose and vectorially add. Since the waves are 180 degrees out of phase, the exterior resultant wave has a zero electric and a zero magnetic field.Therefore it is a "zero-vector" wave, or "scalar" wave. It's a wave of pure stress in space time. This coil has a cancelling effect of the magnetic fields at the nodes, due to the opposing magnetic fields summing to zero. The nodes MUST lie along a straight line. Once the magnetic field is cancelled, you are left with a field of pure potential. This field will have longitudinal scalar wave pattern. This field will be a narrow thread like beam parallel to the cylindrical axis. The coil is wound on a 45 degree angle up and down the length of the form creating a series of 90 degree intersections where the windings cross (caduceus coil). These types of translators (which can also be wound at other angles to facilitate the production of different wave types) tend to create 'free' A, 'free' B, or 'free' E fields which have been separated from the em source wave by selective cancellation of the unwanted component fields of the source wave. We will found very interesting informations in "Toward a new electromagnetics" Part IV ( Vectors and Mecanisms clarified ) and also "New Tesla Electromagnetics" by T.E. Bearden. PS : I have added more informations and pictures about my Scalar Waves Transmitter (SWT) at : http://members.aol.com/overunity4/html/sclxmtr.htm Sincerely, ( This mail has been sent at 17h32 GMT on 12 Septembre 97 ) Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 10:50:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA04634 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:50:50 -0700 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:50:50 -0700 X-Envelope-From: anthony.aardvark@usa.net Fri Sep 12 10:50:41 1997 Received: from pop01.netaddress.usa.net ([204.68.24.132]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA04564 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:50:40 -0700 From: anthony.aardvark@usa.net Received: (qmail 9419 invoked by uid 0); 12 Sep 1997 17:50:53 -0000 Received: from 199.183.41.153 by www03 via web-mailer (2.1) on Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:49:05 Message-ID: Old-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:49:05 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: Hi- How can I subscribe to this list? Thanks ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 11:06:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA09454; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:05:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:05:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3419A055.4422@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:04:37 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Caps and Something Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"V8_UG2.0.bJ2.KHO6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/693 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greetings: I have some spare electrolytic caps here if anyone wants them. They're free, and if you would like, I'll send the capacitance and voltage ratings. Also: What is "Variable Angular Acceleration driven with Nuclear/Particle Superconducting Accelerators"? I heard this mentioned by someone at NASA. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 13:52:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA11774; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709122049.NAA10112@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: example of voltage as a scalar (B.B. Scalars} Resent-Message-ID: <"xljmb.0.rt2.GjQ6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/694 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Bob! With all due respect, I will once more try to convince you that voltage is a scalar by explaining the nature of scalars and vectors. I admit that you had about convinced me that it was a vector until you suggested that no conventional EM text treats voltage as a scalar (or= something close to this) So I looked and found several, and presented the Sears text as an example. Obviously you disagreed! >Dave Dameron wrote: > > > >> >Voltage relative to what? (Magnitude and direction please!) >>=20 >> Hi Bob. The point in the example was no vector (direction) was used to= sum >> the voltage contribution of each of the charges. Is this wrong? > >Specifically, no, generaly, yes. What if all the charges were not of >the same sign? You are not making this more clear. In this case, the voltages can be added= as a scalar, but in general one cannot? Voltage has a dual nature, sometimes= scalar, but generally vector??? It doesn't matter the sign of the charges. The formula for potential from a charge is V =3D q/(4*PI*epsilon*r), where q=3D charge (either sign) epsilon=3D permittivity of empty space r=3D distance (positive scalar) I quote from Sears "The voltage at a point is the sum of the voltages due to each of the charges, respectively. The sum is ALGEBRAIC, not VECTORIAL, since voltage or potential is a scalar quantity" Thus in the example of 3 charges, if we have +2q at position 1, -3q at position 2, and +2q at position 3, the total voltage =3D +1*voltage of a unit charge. (+2-3+2=3D1) instead of +1q+1q+1q given before. The voltage could be 0 or negative with other choices, the sign of a algebraic number is no indication in itself of a vector. >> The final voltage is relative to the same point (center) without the charges > present. Note that the formula doesn't give an absolute potential (Why that patent=20 4839581 is interesting), but by definition the change in voltage or= potential from a charge being present. >So your measuring 'voltage' at a point, relative to that same point at >another time, after you introduced the charges? That is not a valid >measurment.=20 Why NOT??? First, the formula gives the relative voltage for the added charge(s), not how to measure it! You introducing measurement is one key to this debate... That way is exactly how I'd measure it. I would measure the voltage at the center point in space by placing an electrostatic voltmeter ( guess=3D calibrated electrometer) without the 3 charges, then add the= charges and note the change. How would you measure it??? > >> This is approximated by any point far away from the charges. > >Now that is a valid measurment. If we perform this measurment, we will >find both the value, and sign of the voltage. This defines a vector, >not a scalar value. I disagree. The sign does not (for a signed magnitude) But 1) I cannot run a shielded wire to infinity :-) 2) more importantly, a "normal" 2wire voltmeter won't work to measure a point in open space with electrostatic charges. There is NO difference between a voltage of a sphere isolated in space 1) charged to 100,000 volts with a Whimhurst machine, and 2) connected to a +100,000 volt DC HV power line. Even more important, 3) A reference point far away can be in any direction. and you appear to be saying, like "The Dancing Wu-Li Masters" like the potential is in all directions in a infinite number of universes, but when you measure, a= direction and universe is thus selected. That may well be true, but there is no way for me to know. I won't argue it if that's your opinion, but you have to admit it isn't conventional electronics!! By the formula q/C=3D V, you by the same reason could claim capacitance is a vector if V is, so have the formidable task of rewriting all of electrostatics and EM, not just from Maxwell, but from the very beginning! :-}. The sign doesn't define a vector, please reread the Maxwell= you quoted, it is the Direction of a quantity that defines it as a vector.=20 > The direction of the measurement is the heart of what I think you are= saying! Ant=F3nio Vilela tried to convince you. >> >And what of Maxwell? > >> Please explain what part of Maxwell to question. > >Have you been reading this thread? Of course! It said a scalar is defined by a single number, while a vector is a directed quantity. Since I am saying voltage is a scalar, it has no direction. You are saying voltage has a direction, thus is a vector. Thus I need to prove to you that there is no direction to voltage, and by Maxwell, you'll agree it's a scalar! :-}.=20 The example of the 3 charges and voltage at the center may be not the best= to show the reference measurement point you refer to, there at infinity. I stayed up all night thinking of this. I will give a more concrete example. The measurement is the Key! Consider a 12 volt battery connected to 2 wires everywhere 3cm apart. +12 -----------a--------b------... volts /|\ --- | E field - | -12------------c--------------... The battery, wires can be considered= ideal, don't worry about voltage drops along the wires, etc. If you want the E= field in the other direction, that's OK. What is the E field? It is 4 volts/meter pointing straight up. Assume uniform so I don't have to use calculus notation. What is the potential between the wires? 12 volts. Suppose you connect the voltmeter between points a and c directly opposite each other. You measure 12 volts. The direction vector.L, a to c, is in the same direction as the E field. The potential is defined as the dot (Scalar) product of E and L, giving a potential of 4 volts for each cm or 12 volts. Because the E field and L are the same direction, the distinction between it and V may sometimes be= forgotten. Now consider the voltmeter between points b and c. Make a and b 4 cm apart so that the direction vector is 5 cm long. What is the E field along this direction? One could decompose the E field into components parallel to the direction vector 12/5 volts/cm and 16/5 volts/cm perp. to it. This is=20 by the definition of vector projection and dot products. The potential drop along this direction is 12/5 volts/meter, which can also be done by the dot product of the 2 vectors E and L, which gives the SCALAR potential of= 12/5 volts per cm or a total of 12 volts from b to c. But, this is KEY, you do not claim that the voltmeter has distorted the E field from straight up to such a great change to along b to c, it disturbs the wire circuit very minimally. So the E field is still straight up. (Unless you ascribe it from c to all directions at= once like we took care of before with Wu-Li) So don't think of the vector projection, but the scalar product. This means, by DEFINITION of the SCALAR PRODUCT, that the potential is a SCALAR and is not a function of the direction vector a to c, b to c, or any other 2 points! ACTUALLY what you've done with the voltmeter is connect the 12 volt potential via the test leads to the inside of the voltmeter. No, you do not connect the E field, it varies along the test leads with their spacing. Most likely, the 12 volt potential is across some voltage divider resistor in the voltmeter, producing a E field and current (vector) along it,direction from one wire lead to the other. That vector is in no relation to the original field between the wires, and the orientation of the resistor does not affect the 12 volt reading. This is because the=20 dot, SCALAR, product of E and the vector direction of the resistor, gives a scalar answer of 12V, which doesn't vary with the orientation of the voltmeter, even though the E field in the voltmeter rotates with its orientation. Thus you are not really concerned with the direction vector b to c. or where the voltmeter divider resistors are. Those vectors are part of the measurement geometry, NOT the voltage. The current is a 1 dimensional vector in an ideal resistor (from one wire lead to the other), thus can be written by a magnitude x unit vector along the resistor. If one isn't concerned with the direction, i.e. not being used as an antenna or inductively couples to something else, the direction need not be specified, and only the Scalar magnitude used. This is what is called the scalar I vs, the vector J. and what people mean when they specify a scalar current,=20 Gee, hope I didn't leave anything out!! Whew. If unclear, Please find a book on vector algebra, dot products. -Dave As an aside, a isolated sphere has an self-capacity. The Earth as a conductive body in free space has a capacitance of 750uF. No other electrodes are required. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 14:01:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA13291; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:03:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall Sender: ekwall2@november To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Nobel winners oppose patent bill Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"OkpFX1.0.UF3.kqQ6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/695 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Rocky Mt. NEWS pg15B ..artical NOBEL WINNERS OPPOSE BILL TO CHANGE PATENT LAWS ------ By Tom Berman ~Associated Press~ ------ CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- More than 20 Nobel laureates said Thursday that proposed changes in U.S. patent law would foster intellectual piracy and coud weaken America's position as a technological innovator. Legislation the House approved in April would overhaul the Patent and Trademark Office and speed publication of patent applications. The Clinton administration seeks the changes to bring U.S. patent laws more in line with those of other countries. The bill would require that applications be published after 18 months, even if the patent hasn't been granted(!) On average, it takes nearly four years for patent approval. The Nobel laureates in economics, chemistry and physics said the early disclosure would "facilitate the theft of an inventor's intellectual property rights." Corporations or individuals with deep pockets could steal ideas and then spend heavily to get the ideas developed faster, the group said. "It would create total chaos and of course it is conducive to fraud and deceit," said Dudley Herschbach, the 1986 Nobel laureate in chemistry who teaches at Harvard. They said foreign corporations also could capitalize on U.S. patent applications. end of artical... -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 14:04:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA28517; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:03:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:03:01 -0700 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709122102.OAA14916@germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: example of voltage as a scalar (B.B. Scalars} Resent-Message-ID: <"iP6WW3.0.Kz6.2uQ6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/696 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In my last post about measurements I said volt/meter in 2 places where I meant volts/cm. Sorry about any confusion :-). -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 16:05:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA02615; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3419F2F7.32AD@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 18:57:12 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalar x Vector voltage, Bearden seems to know it. Or not? References: <01BCBF80.C9FDBDE0@que3-p4.telepac.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VEJLQ1.0.je.rfS6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/697 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: António Vilela wrote: > But before that, I would like to leave a few ideas on what we have been discussing. > > For those who look at Bearden as an authority on the subject, you may take interest > in his article "Chasing the wild dragon", which can be found at: > > http://www.hsv.com/writers/bearden/page001.htm > > there's a line on table 1 that reads: > > "6.development and utilization of a "hidden" electrodynamics inside the scalar potential > (inside voltage)." > > which I think to be very relevant to this discussion. I may, of course, be wrong but I look > at it as a clear "black & white" identification of "voltage" with "the scalar potential". Its hard to know where to begin to list the things wrong with this interpretation. But we must start with the source, Bearden's work itself. If you look at the sum of Bearden's works, you should very soon discover that many points in "Chasing the wild dragon" are directly at odds with much of his earlier (and many feel better) publications. Those familiar with with the range of Bearden's work often classify it into two major catagories, "Old Bearden" and "New Bearden". The general opinion is that the older works are far better, and the newer works appear to contain a degree of misinformation, deliberate or other wise. A recent post (By Jerry Decker I beleive) noted that Mr. Bearden may have recently re-adopted his earlier views. This highlights the general perception many share of the distinction between the two catagories of Bearden's work. "Chaseing the wild dragon" most clearly falls into the latter catagory. As an example, it contains references to the MRA as an over unity device supporting the theories presented. The MRA had already been proven well under unity prior to the electronic publication of "Chasing the wild dragon". > I found this quite by chance, as I was looking for other things, and indeed it was a surprise. > I never thought I would find such a clear statement. Usually, these concepts are introduced > at a very early stage, and seldom discussed. Well, you have misinterpreted the statement in this case. This is n no way a "a clear "black & white" identification of "voltage" with "the scalar potential" at all. Bearden's use of the term 'the scalar components within voltage' (not voltage itself) is used to describe the two "Whittaker potentials", or scalar functions that form a vector, or EM wave as described by the majority of Bearden's work (explicitly defined in the Towards a New Electromagnetics series). The mathimatical explaination of this interpretation are the Whittaker papers themselves, as referenced by Mr. Bearden. > Of course, this proves nothing. As I wrote earlier, this Scalar and Vector classification > is quite arbitrary, depending on the particular scientist and the way he views things. Now that is very wrong also. Scalar and Vector have explicit conventional definitions. Even Maxwell himself is very clear on this basic concept, as has already been quoted here earlier. > However, there is a tradition and a common body of knowledge in this field we call > Classical Physics, that says voltage is a scalar quantity. It's laws are expressed assuming > this. > > We have other examples within CEM to show us that this is so: > Take the ordinary concept of current. Although current is a vector, and there are vector > equations to express it's dependence on the E-field, charge density, speed, etc., everyone > defines a current in a wire as a scalar quantity, expressing the net charge flow through > the wire. This "new" current is independent of the directions of space, as the entire wire is > (for this purpose) viewed as a current line, with no section (this is not exact, but it serves > the purpose of illustration). Did you read Maxwell's definition of the terms 'scalar' and 'vector'? Apparently not. Current is a vector, and cannot be expressed as a scalar value. Are you aware of the definition of the terms 'scalar' ad 'vector' in mathimatics? > Rigorous definitions of this are, of course, possible, but useless in this discussion. Now we agree on something! This is an accomplishment indeed, not a bad way to end the week. > Well, I'd rather people would understand and accept this than saying "bah, he's right because > Bearden says so", as in the first case the resulting concepts would be operational > and productive, while in the second they would be a limitation. I would rather that you learn to understand the sum of Bearden's work before you assume you understand what he has written above. Your misinterpreting what you have quoted, and do not yet grasp what is correctly written there. > P.S. - Don't miss our next episode, where the question "Is it really possible to have a field > cancelled?" will be made, as our hero wonders "why is the magnetic field between adjacent > wires of a bifilar coil so intense?". Stay tuned. You might want to read whats alaready been written about this first. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 16:28:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA23958; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:27:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:27:41 -0700 Message-Id: <199709130020.TAA17569@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: Tesla Car Circuit Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:18:51 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ByChM1.0.As5.h_S6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/698 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > Where on earth have you get the Tesla car electric circuit. I was looking > for it for a long time??? There is no known copy of the Tesla car circuit. The one in the file mentioned (TESLAFE.ASC on KeelyNet) is a guess, based solely on a description of the parts employed, and maybe not even an accurate one. "I don't want the world -- I just want your half." --T.M.B.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 16:28:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA24188; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:28:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:28:42 -0700 Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Frank C. Earl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:03:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Over unity Prizes Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"n_v-u3.0.qv5.f0T6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/699 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > Other inventers will patent a technology because they think it might work and > want a jump on the competition. I learned long ago just because there is a > patent on something dosn't mean it works. I think this is the real reason why there's so many patents in the USPO that are, in fact, useless for producing energy, etc. It has less to do with ego or fraud, more to do with someone genuinely thinking that they may be onto something and get it in there to avoid losing that opportunity to have a winnner in hand patent-wise. -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 16:30:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA06164; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Frank C. Earl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:03:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Tesla Car Circuit Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"bt5JQ2.0.DW1.v1T6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/700 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > Hi John > Where on earth have you get the Tesla car electric circuit. I was looking > for it for a long time??? > > Robert > At 11:28 AM 05-09-97 GMT+0200, you wrote: > > > >Hi Folks, :) > >I was toying with a few ideas re the tesla electric car circuits described > >in the Teslafe material. > >I thought of replaceing the vacuum tubes with 2N2222 transistors, and the > >resistors with trim pots, to tune them to the right resistance. > >Any thoughts re component values, diode choices, or anything like that? > >Thanks in advance! > >Regards, > >John I didn't think that anyone actually had the schematics and designs for the device Tesla used to power that motor in the Pierce Arrow experiment that he did. The closest thing was some wild suppositions about tubes in various configurations that I seriously doubt would work. The only other close thing is the "Tesla-Brandt" switch that John Bedini put up on his WWW pages with his own modernizations in it. (As an aside, has anyone (other than John, who presented a device to one of the Tesla symposiums) built one of those devices on his pages- any successes/failures? I've got the parts to assemble a "light" version of the switch using 6V Gel-cells and MOSFETs for the switches (My thinking, lower impedance, cleaner switching).) -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 16:40:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA27394; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:40:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:40:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3419FBBE.733D@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:34:38 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: example of voltage as a scalar (B.B. Scalars} References: <199709122049.NAA10112@sweden.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mXq-11.0.oh6.iBT6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/701 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dave Dameron wrote: > >So your measuring 'voltage' at a point, relative to that same point at > >another time, after you introduced the charges? That is not a valid > >measurment. > Why NOT??? First, the formula gives the relative voltage for the added > charge(s), not how to measure it! You introducing measurement is one key to > this debate... That way is exactly how I'd measure it. I would measure the > voltage at the center point in space by placing an electrostatic voltmeter ( > guess= calibrated electrometer) without the 3 charges, then add the charges > and note the change. How would you measure it??? The reason why this is not a valid measurment is answered by your own question. Remember that a electrometer measures charge at a point, a voltmeter does not, it measures the potential difference between two points. The electrometer cannot know the sign of the charge, but the voltmeter does. > >Now that is a valid measurment. If we perform this measurment, we will > >find both the value, and sign of the voltage. This defines a vector, > >not a scalar value. > I disagree. The sign does not (for a signed magnitude) > But 1) I cannot run a shielded wire to infinity :-) > 2) more importantly, a "normal" 2wire voltmeter won't work to measure a > point in open space with electrostatic charges. There is NO difference > between a voltage of a sphere isolated in space 1) charged to 100,000 volts > with a Whimhurst machine, and 2) connected to a +100,000 volt DC HV power > line. Even more important, Then I suggest you use yourself as a voltmeter! Sounds safe enough the way your explaining it? Look, the act of measuring a voltage IS current, a vector. It has intrinsic direction, quite seperate from our labels or mathimatical descriptions. > 3) A reference point far away can be in any direction. and you appear to be > saying, like "The Dancing Wu-Li Masters" like the potential is in all > directions in a infinite number of universes, but when you measure, a direction > and universe is thus selected. That may well be true, but there is no way > for me to know. I won't argue it if that's your opinion, but you have to > admit it isn't > conventional electronics!! By the formula q/C= V, you by the same reason > could claim capacitance is a vector if V is, so have the formidable task of > rewriting > all of electrostatics and EM, not just from Maxwell, but from the very > beginning! :-}. Before you call for a rewrite, do some re-reading! > The sign doesn't define a vector, please reread the Maxwell you > quoted, it is the Direction of a quantity that defines it as a vector. But in all cases the sign IS the direction during the measurment! That direction makes it a vector, nothing more. > The direction of the measurement is the heart of what I think you are saying! > António Vilela tried to convince you. > >> >And what of Maxwell? > > > >> Please explain what part of Maxwell to question. > > > >Have you been reading this thread? > Of course! It said a scalar is defined by a single number, while a vector is > a directed quantity. Since I am saying voltage is a scalar, it has no > direction. > You are saying voltage has a direction, thus is a vector. Thus I need to > prove to you that there is no direction to voltage, and by Maxwell, you'll > agree it's > a scalar! :-}. > > The example of the 3 charges and voltage at the center may be not the best to > show the reference measurement point you refer to, there at infinity. I > stayed up all night thinking of this. I will give a more concrete example. > The measurement is the Key! > > Consider a 12 volt battery connected to 2 wires everywhere 3cm apart. > > +12 -----------a--------b------... > volts /|\ > --- | E field > - | > -12------------c--------------... The battery, wires can be considered ideal, You have made a huge mistake! There ARE NO IDEAL components, ever. There is a leakage current flowing, and a much larger current also flows when we make a measurment. > Suppose you connect the voltmeter between points a and c directly opposite > each other. You measure 12 volts. > The direction vector.L, a to c, is in the same direction as the E field. > The potential is defined as the dot (Scalar) product of E and L, giving a > potential of 4 volts for each cm or 12 volts. Because the E field and L are > the same direction, the distinction between it and V may sometimes be forgotten. Is the field real, or the potential? Is there a field if we are not making a measurment? Do you understand why these are significant questions here? > Now consider the voltmeter between points b and c. Make a and b 4 cm apart > so that the direction vector is 5 cm long. What is the E field along this > direction? One could decompose the E field into components parallel to the > direction vector 12/5 volts/cm and 16/5 volts/cm perp. to it. This is > by the definition of vector projection and dot products. The potential drop > along this direction is 12/5 volts/meter, which can also be done by the > dot product of the 2 vectors E and L, which gives the SCALAR potential of 12/5 > volts per cm or a total of 12 volts from b to c. But, this is KEY, you do > not claim that the voltmeter has distorted the E field from straight up to > such a great change to along b to c, it disturbs the wire circuit very > minimally. So the E field > is still straight up. (Unless you ascribe it from c to all directions at once > like we took care of before with Wu-Li) So don't think of the vector > projection, but > the scalar product. This means, by DEFINITION of the SCALAR PRODUCT, that > the potential is a SCALAR and is not a function of the direction vector a to > c, b to c, or any other 2 points! ACTUALLY what you've done with the > voltmeter is connect > the 12 volt potential via the test leads to the inside of the voltmeter. > No, you do not connect the E field, it varies along the test leads with > their spacing. Most likely, the 12 volt potential is across some voltage > divider resistor in the voltmeter, producing a E field and current (vector) > along it,direction from one wire lead to the other. Wow! You really dont seem to get the whole idea here at all. Yes, potentials are scalar, but voltage is a potential difference, a relative term. This gives it direction, as in voltage relative to what? I would dearly love to hear your thoughts on the early Bearden work, especially the Towards a New Electromagnetics series, specifically the "22 errors" bit. > That vector is in no relation to the original field between the wires, and > the orientation > of the resistor does not affect the 12 volt reading. This is because the > dot, SCALAR, product of E and the vector direction of the resistor, gives a > scalar answer of 12V, which doesn't vary with the orientation of the > voltmeter, even though the E field in the voltmeter rotates with its > orientation. Thus you are not really concerned with the direction vector b > to c. or where the voltmeter divider resistors are. Those vectors are part > of the measurement geometry, NOT the voltage. We must simply agree to disagree here. > The current is a 1 dimensional vector in an ideal resistor (from one wire > lead to the other), thus can be written by a magnitude x unit vector along > the resistor. If one isn't concerned with the direction, i.e. not being used > as an antenna or inductively couples to something else, the direction need > not be specified, and only the Scalar magnitude used. This is what is called > the scalar I vs, the vector J. and what people mean when they specify a > scalar current, Your confusing the math with the emperical reality. As a result, we are not discussing the same things at all. > Gee, hope I didn't leave anything out!! Whew. If unclear, Please find a book > on vector algebra, dot products. > -Dave You left a lot out. Please find Bearden's early stuff, and try again. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 16:43:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA29044; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:43:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:43:40 -0700 Message-ID: <3419FC7F.18D8@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:37:51 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 References: <3.0.32.19970912132105.008e0e40@inforamp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6LgJJ1.0.b57.gET6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/702 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Quinney wrote: > I think we all want to see tests where 'everything' is shielded ..where the > power supply is also contained within the thick metal Faraday cages, and > where there are NO connections of any kind... not even ground connections. This type of testing has been done as well, with electronic detectors. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 17:37:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA16383; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3419FC05.447B@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:35:49 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Caps Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eAdlJ.0.u_3.51U6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/703 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greetings: The caps have been given away. If I have anything else I don't need, I'll be sure to pass the word along. Kyle From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 20:24:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA05606; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709130327.XAA23086@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: another virus Resent-Message-ID: <"bbXbe.0.UN1.JTW6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/704 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: There is another virus going around. not as bad as the badtimes virus but if you get a message saying "join now" delete it. If not your hard drive will be erased. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 12 21:53:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA10474; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:53:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:53:01 -0700 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:52:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709130452.VAA07399@iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Re : Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"-g0Cj.0.ZZ2.imX6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/705 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis and All, On 01:38 PM 9/12/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Bob and All, > >on 12/09/1997 12:26:43 , Bob Shannon wrote: > ><< > I don't agree that a scalar would be detected by an inductor. This is > contrary to my understanding of published scalar theory. > Scalar waves may interact with non-linear devices and produce an EM > product, so perhaps its the transistor junctions reacting to the scalar > wave, rather than the linear inductors. > >>> > >I agree with you concerning that pure scalar wave can't be detected by an >inductor. >BUT this is the case for an air core inductor....When this inductor have a >ferrite core (non linear like ferroxcube), the scalar wave may change the >properties ( permeability ) of this ferrite core thus the frequence of the >local oscillator ( of the superheterodyne radio receiver ), this fact need to >be proved experimentaly. I think what you might be generating are Longitudinal Magneto-Dielectric (LMD) waves or simply a longitudinal waves of dielectric flux/lines of induction. Tesla worked with this type of wave and also proved that he could light up a vacuum tube covered with metal coating, just light a faraday cage, which would have screened EM waves. He held the tube with one hand and touched the terminal of his coil with the other hand. This type of wave is not a scalar wave because LMD waves have direction, parallel with the current flow. Did you notice that your caduceus coil had any greater directional strength? These electric waves would influence your radio coil, like sending a signal to it, just like Tesla did and was trying to explain with his radio, lighting and power wireless inventions. Did you try lighting a fluorescent light bulb? You will probably find that you can light many bulbs without lost of the source power. This could indicate ou operation. The LMD wave is just the opposite of the transverse electromagnic wave (TEM) currently used today and experimentally proven to travel faster than light. An example: If one pushes a steel rod longitudinally, the opposing end reacts instantly, there is no time lag. On the other hand, TEM waves can be pictured using a piece of rope that is given a sharp shake, the wave can then be seen traveling down the length, loosing energy as it goes, taking time to reach the end. I hope this sheds a little light :-) Sincerely, Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 13 03:25:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id DAA01679; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 03:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 03:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19970913102238.14337.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.24.196.40] From: "" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Is the nose an EMR or scalar detector? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 03:22:38 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"X8tn13.0.6Q.bdc6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/706 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Regarding the "emanations from materials", see the following from http://www.earthpulse.com/health/cells.html Smell: Actually it is assumed that smell is perceived when the molecules, aromatic substances having a definite size and corresponding to the shade of smell, get into the appropriate holes of the mucous membrane of the nose. Wrong. The writer has shown that an odor is the electromagnetic radiation of the molecules and atoms, which will change the electromagnetic state of the receiving mucous membrane. This change in electromagnetic activity will be transmitted to the corresponding center in the brain. Some dogs can "smell" the infrasounds which can be measured in seawater before a storm. - "Odor analyzers" can be used as an early diagnosis of many illnesses. Dave L. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 13 06:21:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA18722; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 06:20:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 06:20:54 -0700 Message-ID: <341A8EBB.85D582DE@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:01:48 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tesla Car Circuit References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pnXsW1.0.Ra4.rCf6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/707 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: try :http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/images/scalchrg.htm for something along those lines. Frank C. Earl wrote: > > > > Hi John > > Where on earth have you get the Tesla car electric circuit. I was looking > > for it for a long time??? > > > > Robert > > At 11:28 AM 05-09-97 GMT+0200, you wrote: > > > > > >Hi Folks, :) > > >I was toying with a few ideas re the tesla electric car circuits described > > >in the Teslafe material. > > >I thought of replaceing the vacuum tubes with 2N2222 transistors, and the > > >resistors with trim pots, to tune them to the right resistance. > > >Any thoughts re component values, diode choices, or anything like that? > > >Thanks in advance! > > >Regards, > > >John > > I didn't think that anyone actually had the schematics and designs > for the device Tesla used to power that motor in the Pierce Arrow > experiment that he did. The closest thing was some wild suppositions > about tubes in various configurations that I seriously doubt would > work. The only other close thing is the "Tesla-Brandt" switch that > John Bedini put up on his WWW pages with his own modernizations in > it. (As an aside, has anyone (other than John, who presented a > device to one of the Tesla symposiums) built one of those devices > on his pages- any successes/failures? I've got the parts to assemble > a "light" version of the switch using 6V Gel-cells and MOSFETs for the > switches (My thinking, lower impedance, cleaner switching).) > > -- > Frank C. Earl > Earl Consulting Services > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each > and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or > any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses > implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 13 11:08:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA09703; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 11:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 11:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709131810.OAA20794@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: new virus Resent-Message-ID: <"gf2wD.0.RN2.8Pj6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/708 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Boy do I feel dumb.Accept my apologies and may the fleas from a thousand camels infest my armpits for propegating the urban myth of an email virus Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 13 15:47:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA26055; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 15:46:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 15:46:47 -0700 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 15:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709132246.PAA17526@denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: example of voltage as a scalar (B.B. Scalars} Resent-Message-ID: <"L-xd62.0.0N6.LVn6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/709 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Bob! I said I would try once more, so will not try to rehash what I said again. Would clarifing any points really help, anyway? I gave a conventional explanation, so we will agree to disagree! Will let the other readers decide whether I "don't seem to get the whole idea here at all". I haven't read what Bearden states in his "Toward a new Electromagnetics", so wasn't trying to prove or disprove whatever he says. But don't think it is considered "conventional", which it what I thought you asked about and I responded in the light of. Have been wanting to read more of Bearden for some time now, but there is so much to do! In which volume is "22 errors"? Maybe then I'll have a different discussion... -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 13 18:21:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA15048; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 18:21:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 18:21:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:16:04 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: magneto dielectric wave...??? In-Reply-To: <199709130452.VAA07399@iceland.it.earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ejrqP1.0.1h3.Dmp6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/711 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: What is a magneto dielectric wave? What is a dielectric wave? What is a magnetic wave? JHS From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 13 21:06:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA27987; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:04:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:04:59 -0700 From: Jiyani@aol.com Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 22:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970913221705_894152373@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [STILL OFF TOPIC] Re: ALERT Resent-Message-ID: <"GIS4O2.0.-q6.e9s6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/712 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: No disappointment here I know about the use and speed of Abacus and soroban. The point is the equipment is outdated and there are other ways to do bigger and better work. I happen to enjoy handsetting lead type and printing on a one hundred and fifty year old letterpress. the product is superb but it is still outdated and obsoleted by newer and better developments in ths industry. This string has gone on for so long that ther original intent is getting lost and probably not worth the effort to generate further verbiage for it here. I wish you well, Jiyani From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 13 21:08:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA29559; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:08:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:08:22 -0700 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709140408.VAA04914@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: magneto dielectric wave...??? Resent-Message-ID: <"PX4N9.0.ZD7.qCs6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/713 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:16 PM 9/13/97 -0400, you wrote: > > > What is a magneto dielectric wave? What is a dielectric wave? >What is a magnetic wave? > It is a distinct form of electric induction unlike current EM components. It is a longitudinal wave of both magnetic and dielectric lines of induction. There is no dielectric or magnetic waves that I know of. In Jean-Louis's Scalar Waves Xmter V1.0 the E and B-fields are cancelled in the transverse (90 deg) direction with the resultant direction in space conjuction and thus lay on the same axis as the flux of electric induction, to which they give rise. Magnetic induction -+-+-+-+-+-+-+ --------------> Electric induction - - - - - - - Dielectric induction In the "Smiths Coil" it was reported to have been an "energy sink"- current fed into it just disappeared, causing no radiation, not even heat. It was also rumored to have zero impedance. Another strange aspect is that the coils could not be coupled together. In Eric Dollard's research of Tesla's Electricity of longitudinal waves, he found that they traveled faster than light and propagates in counterspace. Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 13 21:40:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA05825; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:39:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:39:48 -0700 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 19:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709140245.TAA06963@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: magneto dielectric wave...??? Resent-Message-ID: <"JcNgZ3.0.hQ1.Hgs6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/714 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:16 PM 9/13/97 -0400, you wrote: > > > What is a magneto dielectric wave? What is a dielectric wave? >What is a magnetic wave? > It is a distinct form of electric induction unlike current EM components. It is a longitudinal wave of both magnetic and dielectric lines of induction. There is no dielectric or magnetic waves that I know of. In Jean-Louis's Scalar Waves Xmter V1.0 the E and B-fields are cancelled in the transverse (90 deg) direction with the resultant direction in space conjuction and thus lay on the same axis as the flux of electric induction, to which they give rise. Magnetic induction -+-+-+-+-+-+-+ --------------> Electric induction - - - - - - - Dielectric induction In the "Smiths Coil" it was reported to have been an "energy sink"- current fed into it just disappeared, causing no radiation, not even heat. It was also rumored to have zero impedance. Another strange aspect is that the coils could not be coupled together. In Eric Dollard's research of Tesla's Electricity of longitudinal waves, he found that they traveled faster than light and propagates in counterspace. Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 13 23:04:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA24910; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:03:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:03:49 -0700 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709140603.XAA02011@germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Re : Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"CiCqQ.0.756.4vt6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/715 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Michael, >The LMD wave is just the opposite of the transverse electromagnic wave (TEM) >currently used today and experimentally proven to travel faster than light. >An example: If one pushes a steel rod longitudinally, the opposing end >reacts instantly, there is no time lag. Don't longitudinal waves in a steel rod travel at the speed of sound in it? Sound is a pressure wave. Sincerely, -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 13 23:39:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA01708; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709140638.XAA16329@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Re : Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:45:48 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2U2A-3.0.bQ.gPu6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/716 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dave and Michael, > >The LMD wave is just the opposite of the transverse electromagnic wave (TEM) > >currently used today and experimentally proven to travel faster than light. > >An example: If one pushes a steel rod longitudinally, the opposing end > >reacts instantly, there is no time lag. This makes sense. wouldn't a displacement current across the plates of a capacitor fit this definition? Or does the current travel at the speed of light? does anybody know this for sure? > Don't longitudinal waves in a steel rod travel at the speed of sound in it? > Sound is a pressure wave. This may be true of a steel rod, but what about some hypothetical material that has a much lower elasticity? It seems the lower the elasticity the higher the velocity... also here is arefernce to a short article about Caduceus coils, it may have already been discussed but I don't remember it http://www.livelinks.com/sumeria/phys/scalar2.html In the article two patents are referenced, 4,204,212 which is a spiral antenna, and 3,267,406 which is a "well known" non-inductive resistor patent. I haven't taken a look, but am going there now... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 13 23:50:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA02550; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:50:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:50:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709140649.XAA02862@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Re : Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"Cs84A1.0.ld.Vau6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/717 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dave, At 11:03 PM 9/13/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Michael, > >>The LMD wave is just the opposite of the transverse electromagnic wave (TEM) >>currently used today and experimentally proven to travel faster than light. >>An example: If one pushes a steel rod longitudinally, the opposing end >>reacts instantly, there is no time lag. >Don't longitudinal waves in a steel rod travel at the speed of sound in it? >Sound is a pressure wave. >Sincerely, >-Dave The reaction is the physical movement felt at the other end. Yes if you hit the end of a steel bar there would be a sound wave generated that would travel much slower. Picture a long steel rod going from one end of the universe to the other end. If I pushed one end of the rod the other end would move instantly. Kelvin considered it possible to generate "longitudinal waves in the luminiferous ether" thru the phenonmena of displacement current (capacity current dD/dt). Question as to the velocity of dielectric flux: All magnetic lines of force must be closed upon themselves and all dielectric lines of force must terminate upon a conducting surface. It can be infered that no line of force can terminate in free space. This creates an interesting question as to the state of dielectric flux lines before the field has had time to propagate to the neutral conductor. During this time it would seem that the lines of force, not having reached the distant neutral conductor would end in space at their advancing wave front. It could be concluded that that either the lines of force propagates instantly or always exit and are modified by the electric force, or voltage. It is possible that additional or conjugate space exits within the same boundaries as ordinary space. The properties of lines of force within this conjugate space may not obey the laws of normally conceived space. Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 13 23:55:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA31582; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:55:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:55:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199709140655.XAA18075@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" Subject: More odd patents Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:02:30 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"B9spX.0.Ij7.Nfu6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/718 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi all, I couldn't find the Moebius resistor patent (3,267,406) on the IBM server although it is well known. One other patent references it though and that is: http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4599586 This is a patent for a moebius capacitor and bears looking at. The patent for a spiral antenna (4,204,212) doesn't seem to be particularly applicable to the idea of Caduceus coils. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 00:13:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA00788; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:12:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:12:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199709140712.AAA19746@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Re : Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:19:59 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oAtAW.0.9C.pvu6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/719 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Michael, > > > >>The LMD wave is just the opposite of the transverse electromagnic wave (TEM) > >>currently used today and experimentally proven to travel faster than light. > >>An example: If one pushes a steel rod longitudinally, the opposing end > >>reacts instantly, there is no time lag. > >Don't longitudinal waves in a steel rod travel at the speed of sound in it? > >Sound is a pressure wave. > >Sincerely, > >-Dave > > The reaction is the physical movement felt at the other end. Yes if you hit > the end of a steel bar there would be a sound wave generated that would > travel much slower. Picture a long steel rod going from one end of the > universe to the other end. If I pushed one end of the rod the other end > would move instantly. > > Kelvin considered it possible to generate "longitudinal waves in the > luminiferous ether" thru the phenonmena of displacement current (capacity > current dD/dt). I would be interested in this reference if you have it. I think you are on to something here! I just posted a message about displacement current that is very similar. > > Question as to the velocity of dielectric flux: > > All magnetic lines of force must be closed upon themselves and all > dielectric lines of force must terminate upon a conducting surface. It can > be infered that no line of force can terminate in free space. This creates > an interesting question as to the state of dielectric flux lines before the > field has had time to propagate to the neutral conductor. During this time > it would seem that the lines of force, not having reached the distant > neutral conductor would end in space at their advancing wave front. It could > be concluded that that either the lines of force propagates instantly or > always exit and are modified by the electric force, or voltage. It is > possible that additional or conjugate space exits within the same > boundaries as ordinary space. The properties of lines of force within this > conjugate space may not obey the laws of normally conceived space. > I will dig up a number of references I have on this idea. Apparently the idea that the coulomb gauge (as I believe its called) propogates instantaneously has been discussed by a number of people. Jackson in "Classical Electrodynamics" refers to it, and I have a brief 19th cen. artcle from Nature that lays it out mathematically. Als othere were experiments done by the Electric Spacecraft Journal crew with what they called a "wiggle wand". As I remember, the wiggle wand was a metal ball on the end of an insualted rod. Across the room was an electrometer attached to a scope. When the wand was wiggled a trace showed up on the scope. There's more to it than that, and I will have to dig up my references like I said. And what about the magnetic analog of the above situation? If you have a variable DC electromagnet some distance away from a permanet magnet so that the lines of force begin on one and terminate on the other, and you abruptly change the field of one, how long does the longitudinal impulse take to transmit to the other? Quite a while ago I imagined an FTL signaling system using the capacitive version of this idea that consisted of a long thin tube composed of a dielectric with a capacitor plate at each end. A DC voltage source on one end was modulated by the signal source and the field lines terminated on the other plate, which was connected to a sensitive electrometer and demodulator. I STRONGLY suspect that the signals would have a near infinite velocity, and the tube could be bent to conform to circuit designs. Anybody interested in trying it out? Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 01:04:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA06113; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:03:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:03:58 -0700 Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709140803.BAA21168@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Re : Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"dO6aQ1.0.QV1.jfv6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/720 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > >At 11:03 PM 9/13/97 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi Michael, >> >>>The LMD wave is just the opposite of the transverse electromagnic wave (TEM) >>>currently used today and experimentally proven to travel faster than light. >>>An example: If one pushes a steel rod longitudinally, the opposing end >>>reacts instantly, there is no time lag. >>Don't longitudinal waves in a steel rod travel at the speed of sound in it? >>Sound is a pressure wave. >>Sincerely, >>-Dave > >The reaction is the physical movement felt at the other end. Yes if you hit >the end of a steel bar there would be a sound wave generated that would >travel much slower. Picture a long steel rod going from one end of the >universe to the other end. If I pushed one end of the rod the other end >would move instantly. I think the rod would compress if you pushed one end, and that compression would travel at the speed of sound to the other end. Think of pushing a long spring, and watching the "push". Then make it stiff as steel, and you'd get the sound wave. The push is just a different waveform than a hammer blow "exciting the rod. Of course, if the steel were infinitely stiff (incompressible) then the velocity of sound would be infinite and the other end would move as you stated. Except maybe for relativistic effects. I look foward to the stuff on capacitors, etc. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 01:12:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id BAA08595; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709140811.BAA26548@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Re : Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"yI8di2.0.C62.Lnv6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/721 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Fred, <....>> >> Kelvin considered it possible to generate "longitudinal waves in the >> luminiferous ether" thru the phenonmena of displacement current (capacity >> current dD/dt). > >I would be interested in this reference if you have it. Roenteen Rays and Phenomena of the Anode and Cathode. P.E. Phompson. 1896, Van Nostrand Co., p. 93 (Kelvin), p. 136 (Tesla). Condensed Intro to Tesla Transformers. Eric Dollard. 1986, Borderland Research Foundation. I think you are on >to something here! Yes, I think this is what Jean-Louis could be generating with his caduceus unit and maybe with the TEP. I just posted a message about displacement current that >is very similar. Yes, the dielectric pheonmena is an interesting field that little work has been done in the past 150 years which is still wide open for profound discoveries. Capacitance inadequately explained: The perception of capacitance as used today is wholly indequate for the proper understanding of this effect. Steinmetz mentions this in his introductory book "Electric Discharges, Waves and Impules". To quote, "Unfortunately, to a large extent in dealing with dielectric fields the prehistoric conception of the electrostatic charge (electron) on the conductor still exists, and by its use destroys the analogy between the two components of the electric field, the magnetic and dielectric, and makes the consideration of dielectric fields unnecessarily complicated." Ref: Introduction to Dielectric & Magnetic Discharges in Electrical Windings. Eric Dollard, 1982. Borderland Science Research Foundation. >> >> Question as to the velocity of dielectric flux: >> >> All magnetic lines of force must be closed upon themselves and all >> dielectric lines of force must terminate upon a conducting surface. It >can <....> >this >> conjugate space may not obey the laws of normally conceived space. >> >I will dig up a number of references I have on this idea. Apparently the >idea that the coulomb gauge (as I believe its called) propogates >instantaneously has been discussed by a number of people. Jackson in >"Classical Electrodynamics" refers to it, and I have a brief 19th cen. >artcle from Nature that lays it out mathematically. Als othere were >experiments done by the Electric Spacecraft Journal crew with what they >called a "wiggle wand". As I remember, the wiggle wand was a metal ball on >the end of an insualted rod. Across the room was an electrometer attached >to a scope. When the wand was wiggled a trace showed up on the scope. >There's more to it than that, and I will have to dig up my references like >I said. Yes, I read about the wiggle wand experiment. Interesting results. >And what about the magnetic analog of the above situation? If you have a >variable DC electromagnet some distance away from a permanet magnet so that >the lines of force begin on one and terminate on the other, and you >abruptly change the field of one, how long does the longitudinal impulse >take to transmit to the other? > >Quite a while ago I imagined an FTL signaling system using the capacitive >version of this idea that consisted of a long thin tube composed of a >dielectric with a capacitor plate at each end. A DC voltage source on one >end was modulated by the signal source and the field lines terminated on >the other plate, which was connected to a sensitive electrometer and >demodulator. I STRONGLY suspect that the signals would have a near infinite >velocity, and the tube could be bent to conform to circuit designs. >Anybody interested in trying it out? Yes, Borderland did a FTL experiment on video that showed it could be done. Lots of avenues of research still available :-) >Fred Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 02:29:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA11715; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 02:28:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 02:28:50 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970912160315832.AAA63@ga01-30.NET1PLUS.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 05:10:23 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: wally wheel Resent-Message-ID: <"A6rxD1.0.ys2.Hvw6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/723 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >8/hp/24 hr a day >locally generated >not taxed >might be enough to provide a reasonable quality of life(hot >water, home heat, greenhouse heat) for those that wish to live free > >Am I nuts or is this do-able right now? >8/hp/24 hr a day Not so, don't waste your time. It has been tried and does NOT produce that kind of power. Produces a very slow, 1-2 rpm, machine that can not be geared up for useable power. A more interesting device is to use propane for a working fluid and run it into a solar collector to increase pressure to drive a small pressure motor. Condense the output gas to liquid with a pump and then back to the collector. There are places on the net for using a low-boiling-point fluid to drive pump-engines. Was done in the early 20th century. Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 02:29:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA11684; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 02:28:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 02:28:41 -0700 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3418A951.3438@tiac.net> References: <199709111507.IAA14811@germany.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 05:29:38 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Scalers and Vectors Resent-Message-ID: <"uSQG_2.0.Os2.8vw6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/722 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > >I hope this helps clear things up. > >An electrometer will read the charge at a point, but a voltmeter >measures a vector quantity, having magnetuide and direction. Most voltmeters that I know of do NOT have a scale for direction in space.= Numerical output only, + and - is part of the numerical output NOT a= direction in space. Direction in space is given by coordinates on some kind of three dimensional= space -- cartesian, polar, etc. Therefore, voltage, as measured typically, is a scaler quantity because it= doesn't matter how you orient the wires. The voltage remains the same.= Unless you include 3 dimensional space coordinates, it is not a vector. As to the cancellation of vectors...Sums being zero is not the same and no= intensity. For instance: Stand in a doorway and with left and right arms push against the frame of= the doorway. No matter how hard you push the vector sum of the forces is= still zero, but the harder you push, the more tired you get. So pushing= really hard still sums to zero vector. All forces mathematically "cancel".= The hard pushing is a scaler hidden within the vector sum. It is an= intensity, a stress, a scaler which cannot be ignored. You know it can't= because you get very tired! Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richar= da From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 03:45:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA19351; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:45:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:45:34 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709140649.XAA02862@italy.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:42:56 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Re : Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"bxHSO3.0.9k4.A1y6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/724 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Michael - > If I pushed one end of the rod the other end > would move instantly. I think you'd get a longitudinal pressure wave travelling at around 6,000 meters per second. You push a 6,000 meter long rod of steel, the other end starts to move one second later. If you hit it with electricity the news would travel through the rod at no faster than c - about 300,000,000 meters per second. Less, really since c is smaller in matter than in a vacuum. No matter how stiff things are, forces in them which are transmitted as physical pressures between the tiniest bits of the material are all in a certain sense 'sound' waves, and move at the speed of sound in the material. The spring analogy is good to use to see this. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 03:49:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id DAA14511; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:48:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <3418A951.3438@tiac.net> <199709111507.IAA14811@germany.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:45:59 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Scalers and Vectors Resent-Message-ID: <"XelD61.0.eY3.14y6q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/725 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Richard - > Stand in a doorway and with left and right arms > push against the frame of the doorway. No > matter how hard you push the vector sum of the > forces is still zero, but the harder you push, the > more tired you get. So pushing really hard still > sums to zero vector. All forces mathematically > "cancel". The hard pushing is a scaler hidden > within the vector sum. It is an intensity, a > stress, a scaler which cannot be ignored. You > know it can't because you get very tired! Good analogy! And then after the doorway experiment, just stand there and relax your arms, and notice how they tend to rise up. Antigravity! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 04:46:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA23064; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:45:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:45:52 -0700 Message-ID: <341BE135.414F@cmet.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:05:57 -0400 From: Felix Meyer Reply-To: ce3cwf@bluewin.ch X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 [de]C-KIT-bw (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: example of voltage as a scalar (B.B. Scalars} References: <199709122049.NAA10112@sweden.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ofE7s3.0.He5.lvy6q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/726 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: CONFUSION : VOLTAGE - METER - CENTIMETER... ===============+=========================== Dave Dameron wrote: > > Hi Bob! > With all due respect, I will once more try to convince you that voltage is a > scalar by explaining the nature of scalars and vectors. ... snip ... > stayed up all night thinking of this. I will give a more concrete example. > The measurement is the Key! > > Consider a 12 volt battery connected to 2 wires everywhere 3cm apart. > > +12 -----------a--------b------... > volts /|\ > --- | E field > - | > -12------------c--------------... The battery, wires can be considered ideal, > don't worry about voltage drops along the wires, etc. If you want the E field > in the other direction, that's OK. What is the E field? It is 4 volts/meter ... snip ... Hi Dave, Your discussion is very interesting and makes a lot of thinking, however there is some confusion in your examples: >From +12V to -12V i see a difference of 24 Volts ? ! ? And then the 3 cm are leading to 4 volts/meter... ? ! ? i am confused, what is the real voltage and E field ??? Just as a small side-remark Felix From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 10:22:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA10483; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:22:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:22:07 -0700 (PDT) From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: wally wheel Message-ID: <19970914.132331.2551.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <19970912160315832.AAA63@ga01-30.net1plus.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,13-15 Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:21:48 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"Lm0c5.0.hZ2.xq17q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/727 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:14:54 +0000 eden@net1plus.com writes: >to get started I assume the propane bottle should be installed valve >side down on the bottom of the wheel so the heated expanding gas >pushes the liquid gas to the top of the wheel? > > >Am I nuts or is this do-able right now? >8/hp/24 hr a day > I remember reading about that invention in the late 70's in an issue of Popular Science. I recall that his system used Freon (might as well be enriched uranium these days)but I have never been able to find the article. If anyone has a reference please let me know. Steve Heckman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 11:04:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA14636; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 11:04:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 11:04:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 11:04:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709141804.LAA19473@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Re : Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"8ZKkp1.0.aa3.iS27q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/728 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dave - >I look foward to the stuff on capacitors, etc. The following is some material (1) that I thought might be of interest to you. Dielectric energy storage is spatially different than magnetic energy storage: Unlike magnetism the energy is forced or compressed inwards rather than outwards. Dielectric lines of force push inward into internal space and along axis, rather than pushed outward broadside to axis as in magnetic fields. Because the lines are mutually repellent certain amount of broadside or transverse motion can be expected but the phenomena is basically longitudinal. This gives rise to an interesting paradox that will be noticed with capacity. This is that the smaller the space bounded by conducting structure the more energy can be stored. This is the exact opposite of magnetism. With magnetism, the units volumes of energy can be thought of as working in parallel but the units of energy in association with dielectricity can be thought of as working in series. Voltage is to dielectricity as current is to magnetism: With inductance the reaction to change of field is the production of voltage. The current is proportionate to the field strength and not the velocity of field. With capacity the field is produced not by current but by voltage. This voltage must be accompanied by current in order for power to exist. The reaction of capacitance to change of applied force is the production of current. The current is directly proportional to the velocity of field strength. When voltage increases a reaction current flows into capacitance and thereby energy accumulates. If voltage does not change no current flows and the capacitance stores the energy which produced the field. If the voltage decreases then the reaction current reverses and energy flows out of the dielectric field. As the voltage is withdrawn the compression within the bounded space is relieved. When the energy is fully dissipated the lines of force vanish. Misconception of present theory of capacitance: The misconception that capacitance is the result of accumulating electrons has seriously distorted out view of dielectric phenomena. Also the theory of light as a limit of energy flow , while adequate for magnetic force and material velocity, limits our ability to visualize or understand certain possibilities in electric phenomena. The true workings of free space capacitance can best be illustrated by the following example. It has been previously stated that dielectric lines of force must terminate on conductors. No line of force can end in space. If we take any conductor and remove it to the most remote portion of the universe, no line of force can extend from this electrode to other conductors. It can have no free space capacity, regardless of the size of the electrode, therefore it can store no energy. This indicates that the free space capactance of an object is the sum mutual capacity of it to all the conducting objects of the universe. Ref: (1) "Introduction to Dielectric and Magnetic Discharges in Electrical Windings," E. Dollard, 1982, Borderland Science Research Foundation. >-Dave -Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 11:54:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA04714; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 11:53:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 11:53:45 -0700 Posted-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:00:55 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970914115342.007bc450@magick.net> X-Sender: flockoi@magick.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 11:53:42 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: rolf flockoi Subject: just surfin' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"V1HFT1.0.Z91.tA37q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/729 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This might be a little off topic, but I thought it was interesting------- -------------------- Linda Molton Howe interviewed teh CEO of American Computer Company on the Art Bell Radio show earlier this week. He mentioned alien technology recovered from teh space craft which landed in Roswell, N.M. in 1947. Their web page is: http://www.american-computer.com/roswell.htm Here is what they have to say: Welcome to AMERICAN COMPUTER COMPANY's WEBSITE. BACKGROUNDER & RECENT DEVELOPMENTS. [ Go fill out OPINION form NOW! ] [ Go to main AMERICAN COMPUTER Website... ] YOU ARE READING THE AMERICAN COMPUTER COMPANY STORY ABOUT THE ROSWELL INCIDENT ON JULY 7, 1947 and one person's story about the transfer of Alien Technology to Bell Laboratories. RUMOR and CONVENTIONAL FOLK LORE have claimed that a UFO crash landed in Roswell, New Mexico, in September, 1947 near a Nuclear Research Center maintained by the US Air Force at its airbase in Roswell. Supposedly, authentic reports of the crash were suddenly covered up by the Air Force -- because the information unwisely released by base PR personnel, might constitute a threat to national security. Anecdotal reports have since claimed that Aliens, killed in the wreck, or afterward, were subsequently autopsied by the Surgeon General's office, and that the Surgeon General insisted that the autopsy be filmed. Supposedly: their bodies are now being stored by the US Army. Much more recently, stories have begun surfacing about what the Army or Air Force supposedly did with the downed Alien Spacecraft in September and October of 1947. Nuclear Powered Engines and Advanced Communications and Computing devices, all of which were a hundred years beyond post-World War II technology, were taken from the Alien wreck and purportedly made their way to The Bell System's "Bell Laboratories", then located in Murray Hill, New Jersey -- it has been alleged. There, they were studied, dissected, microanalyzed and pieces tested. One piece was supposedly found to have unique potential, an Alien switching device composed of Silicon and Arsenic, arranged in a microscopic array much more complicated than even now have been assembled by Humankind, hundreds of years ahead. It became the priority focus object of Bell Labs' and The US Department of Defense's analysis and scientific research. It was discovered by the researchers, that the unusual electronic [Image] Alien device could act as both a high speed electronic switch and as an Amplifier. They decided to call it the "Transfer Resistor", because it could be made to resist or accept power flow at much higher or lower currents than were applied to it, depending upon unique application of electron flows. Rumors have been flying in UFO-logy circles that, in 1948 and 1949, realizing that Aliens might not take lightly to this research, fearing attack not from the Soviet Union -- but from Aliens of unknown origin -- the U.S. Government hurriedly erected anti-missile batteries in the surrounding Watchung Mountains of New Jersey... near Bell Lab's Murray Hills facility, to protect it from space invasion!! It is not known if this is any indication that the Department of Defense accidently shot down the space craft and feared a reprisal. The alleged Space Defense Anti-missile Batteries, along the Lookout Mountain Ridge north of Bell Labs, is now abandonded and partly overbuilt by a regional high school. On the "Lookout Mountain Nike Base" there were, supposedly, frequent "alien anti-invasion" readiness exercises and drills throughout the 50's, 60's and the early 70's, notably: their frequency reportedly increased any time UFO sightings were reported to the US Air Force -- particularly in the New Jersey flight corridors, or so it has been alleged !! According to one account: the Alien Silicon "amplifier / switch", evaluated in October and November of 1947, was discovered to have enormous implications. The Alien device was allegedly a hundred years beyond the then simple "junction diodes" commonly in use at the time by military electronics. Yet it was reportedly determined at the time that simplified versions of the Alien devices could be manufactured by the effecting of several upgrades to existing technology. Then President Harry S. Truman ordered the devices "cloned" and a cover story manufactured. He was supposedly quoted as saying: "We can't keep so earthshaking a technological advance out of the hands of mankind. It just isn't right !" -- with classic Harry S. Truman sobriety. So, according to the story leaked by a reliable source to UFO-logy circles: in mid-December of 1947, to effect a plausible cover story, the DoD and Bell Labs purportedly manufactured a series of Press Releases, to whit: that after a "2 Year Long Extensive Research Effort" --discovery of the Transistor had "at last" been accomplished, supposedly by clever Bell Labs researchers (Drs. Shockley, Bardeen and Brattain, at Bell Lab's Electronic Circuits Research Center, under the aegis of maverick Bell Labs Vice President John "Jack" Morton). Since that time, The Bell System, and Bell Labs, in the hands of successor company AT&T and its partly owned subsidiary, Lucent Technologies, have continued to maintain the "Transistor Story" for all of posterity, while quietly covering up the real tracks that led the Alien devices to Bell Labs. [Image] UFO-logy sources say, however, that the device in the famous "transfer resistor test rig" at Bell Labs was, in fact, an actual piece of the original Alien integrated circuit array of transistor-like circuit pieces -- found in one of the Alien communication devices at the Crash Site in Roswell, N.M. It has allegedly been reported that it took a year or more for Bell Labs to then figure out how to commercially produce the miracle devices. Reportedly, subsequent technology obtained over the course of the next 10 years by Bell Labs, from the pieces of the wreck delivered to them by the DoD, included the Laser, enhanced solid state circuit components, large scale switching control systems and high definition imaging devices... However, some devices from the downed Alien spacecraft, not fully understood to this day, allegedly include a high energy microwave amplifier that has the secondary effect of decomposing solid objects into their molecular components, a form of circuitry that runs on other than electronic power: using particles thought to have very short half-lifes in the natural universe ("muons"), and a huge induction generator-like coil system some 50 feet in diameter which appears to implement part of some aspect of the vehicle's ability to perform unique flying characteristics and aerobatics - some think it might be a "gravity nullifying" device. What do you think?? Do YOU have any thing to add, such as an abduction experience, or a theory about Alien Visitations to our Planet? Did you work at Bell Labs during the 50's, 60's, 70's or in recent times, and notice anything unusual which might confirm or rebut these rumors? Add your comments below... and add your name to our Guest Mailing List. We will send you notification of new products as they are developed !! And stay tuned, we update our Website, FREQUENTLY !! To Submit your comments, Please fill in ALL of the following [Image] fields. We will also be adding you to our mailing list... All submissions are evaluated for possible PUBLICATION on this site, so don't be afraid to EXPRESS YOURSELF !! [The web site has a form you can fill out to express your opinion or contribution to their knowledge.] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 12:12:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA08542; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:12:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:12:10 -0700 Message-ID: <341C4F5A.4D7D@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:55:54 -0700 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: wally wheel References: <19970912160315832.AAA63@ga01-30.net1plus.com> <19970914.132331.2551.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BxjsT2.0.N52.8S37q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/730 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Steve and eden! For some additional info on the Minto wheel, check out; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/minto.htm I think Jean Naudin or Geoff Egel also has some information on it...seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 14:32:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA06428; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <341C59E2.2CA7@gorge.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:40:50 -0700 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalar transmitter References: <199709141854.LAA04830@mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sJn1Z.0.La1.2V57q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/731 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > All magnetic lines of force must be closed upon themselves and all > dielectric lines of force must terminate upon a conducting surface. It can > be infered that no line of force can terminate in free space. In an effort to understand magnetic forces, perhaps we should consider whether the above statement is actually true. I know it is what the textbooks say, and what we all "know," but??? Consider that NASA says that Magnetic Field Lines exit the sun, "almost perpendicularly," and that they make up, (along with associated ions) the Solar wind. Consider that these field lines interact with the Earth's magnetosphere as would a moving fluid colliding with a stationary fluid, to form the characteristic shape of the magnetosphere. Where do these Magnetic Field Lines terminate? Where is the LOOP? Perhaps the idea of Magnetic Field Lines always forming a closed loop is an artifact of the primitive measuring methods available in the 19th century. If so, other notions about magnetism might need to be re-thought. Tom Miller From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 16:50:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA16869; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 16:50:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 16:50:29 -0700 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970914115342.007bc450@magick.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:50:16 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: just surfin' Resent-Message-ID: <"ZdvdI2.0.P74.4X77q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/732 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Linda Molton Howe interviewed teh CEO of American Computer Company on the >Art Bell Radio show earlier this week. He mentioned alien technology >recovered from teh space craft which landed in Roswell, N.M. in 1947. Their >web page is: >http://www.american-computer.com/roswell.htm Here is some additional information about the American Computer Company and their CEO, Jack Shulman. (I posted this article in several newsgroups, including alt.fan.art-bell) >In article <34176220.554A@xnet.com>, fergus@xnet.com wrote: > >: Does anyone know what "UFO-logy sources" are actually responsible >: for this allegation? Does it come from someone in a government >: or industry position likely to know about this stuff, or just >: from someone with an active imagination? > >This apparently is not the first time that Shulman has tried to use >Bell Labs to generate traffic to his web sites. > >Here is the domain record [with phone numbers x'd] >for kasparov.com, which Shulman also owns: > >: [rs.internic.net] >: American Computer Company (KASPAROV-DOM) >: 6 Commerce Drive Suite #2000 >: Cranford, NJ 07016 >: USA >: >: Domain Name: KASPAROV.COM >: >: Administrative Contact: >: Shulman, Jack (JS1830) nicolai_tesla@MSN.COM >: xxx-xxx-xxxx >: Technical Contact, Zone Contact: >: Stiavetti, Gregory V. (GVS4) greg@IPP.COM >: (xxx)xxx-xxxx >: Billing Contact: >: Montgomery, Roger (RM558) grace@IPP.COM >: (xxx)xxx-xxxx >: >: Record last updated on 13-Jun-96. >: Record created on 28-Jan-96. >: Database last updated on 10-Sep-97 04:58:14 EDT. >: >: Domain servers in listed order: >: >: NS1.SYSTEMV.COM 206.214.38.13 >: SYSV1.SYSTEMV.COM 199.35.37.2 > >On http://www.kasparov.com/1995, Shulman advertises >"Garry Kasparov's INTERNATIONAL CHESSMASTERS' ACADEMY" >(which AFAIK is not affiliated with the real Kasparov in any way) >and near the bottom of the page states that > >: Registered players from the beginner through master-level may >: download the "Chessmaster's Academy Advanced Chess WebClient" >: as soon as the Advanced Chess =AE Programming Team, under the >: supervision of Frederick Friedel of Chessbase Inc. (a >: world renowned developer of computer chess applications) and >: Kenneth Thompson (lead scientist in the design and conception of, >: and principle developer of, the original UNIX Operating System) >: of AT&T, complete it. > >Neither Friedel or Thompson are involved in this activity... > >Also note the following which appears at the bottom of Shulman's >Roswell page (http://www.american-computer.com/roswell.htm) > >: To Submit your comments, Please fill in ALL of the >: following fields. We will also be adding you to our >: mailing list... > >I submit that Mr. Shulman's real intention is to increase the size >of his mailing list... > >r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 18:48:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA11243; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <341C90F8.F0C5C1C6@microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:05:52 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server NeoTech , List Server Newman , List Server Vortex Subject: Smith/Caduceus Coil Article Up Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TdoEQ.0.al2.-C97q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/733 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, Thanks to Fred Epps, I have posted a paper on the Smith/Caduceus Coil. It's in the Papers Section. Can be accessed directly from the Home Page. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 23:23:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA08069; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:22:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:22:23 -0700 Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:22:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709150622.XAA24667@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Wiggle Wand Experiment Resent-Message-ID: <"BMHXH.0.vz1.UGD7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/734 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Fred- Als othere were >experiments done by the Electric Spacecraft Journal crew with what they >called a "wiggle wand". As I remember, the wiggle wand was a metal ball on >the end of an insualted rod. Across the room was an electrometer attached >to a scope. When the wand was wiggled a trace showed up on the scope. >There's more to it than that, and I will have to dig up my references like >I said. Yes, its Issue 18, 1996. The article "Electrostatic Force Experiements, by Charles Yost, talked about the three E-fields; static charge, motional E-field, and magnetic induction E-field. The wiggle wand experiments supported Tesla's claims that electrical energy can be transmitted by means of longitudinal electrostatic forces, the ground serving as a current conductor, and the air acting as a dielectric for the displacement current. They ask where is the magnetic component of the radiated wave? "Jefimenko points out, in accordance with Maxwell's theory, that the magnetic field is circular and perpendicular to the longitudinal direction of the E-field oscillation." This could be so. The experiment is different than Borderlands LMD experiment in which they took an AC voltage and converted the magnetic field into the longitudinal direction. Both the magnetic and dielectric lines of force go longitudinal. Its my speculation that Jean-Louis's experiments could be doing the same. -Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 23:23:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA02984 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:23:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:23:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 23:23:17 1997 Received: from mx05.netaddress.usa.net (realmx05.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.14]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA02960 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709150623.XAA02960@mx2.eskimo.com> Received: (qmail 6026 invoked for bounce); 15 Sep 1997 06:23:33 -0000 Old-Date: 15 Sep 1997 06:23:33 -0000 From: MAILER-DAEMON@mx05.netaddress.usa.net To: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Subject: failure notice X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l-request Status: RO X-Status: Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mx05.netaddress.usa.net. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. : Sorry, I couldn't find any host named globalnet.com.uk. (#5.1.2) --- Below this line is a copy of the message. Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6023 invoked by uid 0); 15 Sep 1997 06:23:33 -0000 Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; Received: from 204.122.16.48 (204.122.16.48) by mx05 via mtad (2.3) id mx05-BiogXf0122; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 00:23:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA08070; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:22:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:22:23 -0700 Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:22:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709150622.XAA24667@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Wiggle Wand Experiment Resent-Message-ID: <"BMHXH.0.vz1.UGD7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/734 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fred- Als othere were >experiments done by the Electric Spacecraft Journal crew with what they >called a "wiggle wand". As I remember, the wiggle wand was a metal ball on >the end of an insualted rod. Across the room was an electrometer attached >to a scope. When the wand was wiggled a trace showed up on the scope. >There's more to it than that, and I will have to dig up my references like >I said. Yes, its Issue 18, 1996. The article "Electrostatic Force Experiements, by Charles Yost, talked about the three E-fields; static charge, motional E-field, and magnetic induction E-field. The wiggle wand experiments supported Tesla's claims that electrical energy can be transmitted by means of longitudinal electrostatic forces, the ground serving as a current conductor, and the air acting as a dielectric for the displacement current. They ask where is the magnetic component of the radiated wave? "Jefimenko points out, in accordance with Maxwell's theory, that the magnetic field is circular and perpendicular to the longitudinal direction of the E-field oscillation." This could be so. The experiment is different than Borderlands LMD experiment in which they took an AC voltage and converted the magnetic field into the longitudinal direction. Both the magnetic and dielectric lines of force go longitudinal. Its my speculation that Jean-Louis's experiments could be doing the same. -Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 14 23:53:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA06294; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:52:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709150652.XAA01808@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Smith/Caduceus Coil Article Up Resent-Message-ID: <"mW-xd.0.EY1.CjD7q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/735 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Thanks Fred and Greg! I read the article and noticed 2 things in particular. 1) the coil was fed from both ends - 4 wires. (wound on ferrite) 2) the 2 layers were "woven" on, that is layer 1 was on top on one side crossing, and layer 2 on top on the other side crossing. This is different than the illustration in or in Bill B's "Not your average construction project" It isn't "noninductive" as described there. I do not know how much difference 2) makes. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 01:47:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA03434; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 01:47:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 01:47:09 -0700 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:35:14 +1000 Message-Id: <199709150235.MAA09626@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Re : Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"r9bcS.0.Zr.COF7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/736 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >>Quite a while ago I imagined an FTL signaling system using the capacitive >>version of this idea that consisted of a long thin tube composed of a >>dielectric with a capacitor plate at each end. A DC voltage source on one >>end was modulated by the signal source and the field lines terminated on >>the other plate, which was connected to a sensitive electrometer and >>demodulator. I STRONGLY suspect that the signals would have a near infinite >>velocity, and the tube could be bent to conform to circuit designs. >>Anybody interested in trying it out? > Right again Fred. This has been done by Minto. Called the Hydronic transmitter (used underwater). Have a circuit if you're interested. Also relates somewhat to the Rogers patents. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 02:10:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id CAA15115; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <341CFB9F.7CA3@itmi-aptor.capgemini.fr> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:10:55 +0200 From: Philippe.Lebourg@itmi-aptor.capgemini.fr (Philippe LEBOURG) Reply-To: Lebourg@itmi-aptor.capgemini.fr Organization: ITMI APTOR X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: New Overunity Patents References: <199709091839.LAA29801@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DKJL-1.0.3i3.ejF7q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/737 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello everyone! Fred Epps wrote: > > Hi Folks! > > I recently recieved a copy from Alexander Frolov of the 1996 St. > Petersburg conference, "New Ideas In Natural Sciences", and included in it > is a list of US overunity patents. > > > > BTW the St. Petersburg proceedings are a fascinating document, almost 600 > pages of research and ideas, most of which is unknown in the rest of the > world. Yes, but there also is a great deal of pure theorizations without the single attempt to propose experiences to help validate or invalidate those theories. > I've already discovered a few things I had no idea of, and I've > only begun to read it. I strongly recommend getting a copy from Alexander, I also recommend taking a full box of aspirin nearby since the translation is less than poor, frequently leading to deciphering rather than reading! > I believe he has only a few left... > I was also told that a bunch of months ago, when I first had the idea to order; then there were many months between MY order and my employer's order... but I finally got one copy. So, either they don't sell so fast that you need to hurry (wouldn't astonish me, if others gave the word about english version), or it's just a sales trick to pretend having very few... I must add that I was also gracefully sent a pair of copies from a book by Mr. Frolov... in russian :( ! Nevermind : it was a gift... When I find a cheap russian-translating system or person, I may be able to take profit of it! Naah, I won't rant all the day long; moreover, it's nearly an old story. Have a good time, fancying with the authors! PhL From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 02:14:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA05441; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:14:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:14:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199709150914.CAA02906@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Minto's Hydronic radiation Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:21:44 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"j_td83.0.uK1.0oF7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/739 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Here's some information I turned up in a quick web search on Hydronic radiation if anyone is interested. It came from the file at: http://www.newphys.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/energy/flan1.asc Thanks to Peter Neilsen for pointing out this phenomena which was unknown to me. Plenty of other strange stuff in this file too, including a scalar detector using an insulator! Fred Wallace Minto was an inventor who worked with scalar waves but did not know it. He sent me some of his experimental papers. I will dig them out and share them with you. He may still be around. He was in Florida the last time heard from him. He is/was a brilliant scientist. He found that he could transmit "electrical" hydronic waves through water and that the signal in water was not delayed. The same signal passing through the air by radio carrier was compared with a signal transmitted through water. There was no phase difference. Theoretically electrical signals travel slower in water than they do in the air. With his system there was no phase difference. Since there was no such thing as scalar back then he called his signals hydronic waves. He could only generate them in water. He was able to show that certain kinds of fish send out hydronic signals. You can identify the species and locate them in the same way you use radio direction finders. He tried to interest the NAVY but no one would listen to him so his ideas died away. I duplicated all of his experiments and went beyond. I discovered the "secret" of the hydronic signal and could create the signals at any frequency and could also generate and receive these signals in the air. Minto was only able to generate and detect these signals in the audio frequency range. The Minto apparatus was used to locate schools of fish because the antenna can be made very directional. Two ships can therefore locate schools of fish by triangulating scalar wave emissions from the fish. We have not idea why fish emit scalar signals. Every type of fish tested had a particular "signature". The scalar signals were all emitted in the acoustic frequency range. It may be that fish use these signals as a form of navigational signal in much the same way dolphins use acoustic search signals. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 02:14:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA05410; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:14:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:14:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199709150914.CAA02860@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Re : Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:05:55 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bPB6i2.0.MK1.wnF7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/738 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Peter, > > >>Quite a while ago I imagined an FTL signaling system using the capacitive > >>version of this idea that consisted of a long thin tube composed of a > >>dielectric with a capacitor plate at each end. A DC voltage source on one > >>end was modulated by the signal source and the field lines terminated on > >>the other plate, which was connected to a sensitive electrometer and > >>demodulator. > > > > Right again Fred. This has been done by Minto. Called the Hydronic > transmitter (used underwater). Have a circuit if you're interested. Also > relates somewhat to the Rogers patents. That's interesting! Does Minto have a patent? Do you have patent numbers for the Rogers patents?... I've only seen one tiny illustration of an underground antenna designed by Rogers. I would be interested in anymore information you have. Thanks in advance, Fred > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 02:31:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id CAA17024; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709150930.CAA02449@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" , Subject: Re: New Overunity Patents Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:38:06 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ODIOA.0.u94.E1G7q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/740 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Phillipe! > > I recently recieved a copy from Alexander Frolov of the 1996 St. > > Petersburg conference, "New Ideas In Natural Sciences", and included in it > > is a list of US overunity patents. > > > > > > BTW the St. Petersburg proceedings are a fascinating document, almost 600 > > pages of research and ideas, most of which is unknown in the rest of the > > world. > > Yes, but there also is a great deal of pure theorizations without the > single attempt to propose experiences to help validate or invalidate > those theories. This is true, and then there are the articles which discuss devices and tests that are in other articles--only in Russian! > > > I've already discovered a few things I had no idea of, and I've > > only begun to read it. I strongly recommend getting a copy from Alexander, > > I also recommend taking a full box of aspirin nearby since the > translation is less than poor, frequently leading to deciphering > rather than reading! No more difficult than the ravings of american free energy inventors like--- me! :-) But yes, you are right. Unfortunately I find this to be true of almost all printed material, there is a lot of "gibberish" and a few clearly demonstrated principles. Being a bookseller maybe I have built up a tolerance for this. > > > I believe he has only a few left... > > > > I was also told that a bunch of months ago, when I first had the idea > to order; then there were many months between MY order and my > employer's order... but I finally got one copy. So, either they don't > sell so fast that you need to hurry (wouldn't astonish me, if others > gave the word about english version), or it's just a sales trick to > pretend having very few... Who knows? I stand by my recommendation. Actually, what I would recommend is that the 5-10 researchers who are doing work of real substance in this book be professionally translated and republished in English, or French if you prefer. > > I must add that I was also gracefully sent a pair of copies from a book > by Mr. Frolov... in russian :( ! Nevermind : it was a gift... When I > find a cheap russian-translating system or person, I may be able to take > profit of it! Yes, I got two also, this seems to be a copy of a book full of detailed experiments on gyroscopes, rotating systems and gravitation. A good example of something which should be translated by professionals and republished. I wonder what would be left of the profits after you had paid the translator(s)? > > Naah, I won't rant all the day long; moreover, it's nearly an old story. > > Have a good time, fancying with the authors! I AM enjoying it despite the tantalizing references that lead nowhere, the level of abstraction and the mediocre translation. The level of signal to noise is no different than this list, and here I am, producing signals and noise :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 05:35:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA25281; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 05:35:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 05:35:17 -0700 From: chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com Message-Id: <199709151235.IAA27603@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 97 08:33:21 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <19970913102238.14337.qmail@hotmail.com> Cc: Subject: Re: Is the nose an EMR or scalar detector? X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.30a (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"jHcAU1.0.vA6.4kI7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/741 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In <19970913102238.14337.qmail@hotmail.com>, on 09/13/97 at 03:22 AM, "" said: This is very interesting in itself. Did you know that some individuals with autism and related disoerder 'hear' colors? Charlie > Wrong. The writer has shown that an odor is the electromagnetic >radiation of the molecules and atoms, which will change the >electromagnetic state of the receiving mucous membrane. This change in >electromagnetic activity will be transmitted to the corresponding center >in the brain. Some dogs can "smell" the infrasounds which can be >measured in seawater before a storm. - "Odor analyzers" can be used as >an early diagnosis of many illnesses. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 05:56:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA29021; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 05:56:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 05:56:17 -0700 From: atech@ix.netcom.com Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970915090100.006c2578@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:01:00 +0000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Smith/Caduceus Coil Article Up Resent-Message-ID: <"kItCL1.0.F57.m1J7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/742 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I attended Glen Rein's seminar on treating water with scalar waves at the Psychotronics Convention a few years back. He noticed that as caduceus coil configuration changed (winding angle, # of crossings, etc.), different effects were noted on the water. One may conclude that any changes in the coil design will impart a change in the scalar wave emissions. At 11:52 PM 9/14/97 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks Fred and Greg! >I read the article and noticed 2 things in particular. >1) the coil was fed from both ends - 4 wires. (wound on ferrite) >2) the 2 layers were "woven" on, that is layer 1 was on top on one side >crossing, >and layer 2 on top on the other side crossing. >This is different than the illustration in scalar2.html> or in Bill B's "Not your average construction project" It isn't >"noninductive" as described there. >I do not know how much difference 2) makes. >-Dave > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 07:25:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA12537; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:25:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:25:02 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970913021403.0086a5e0@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:21:53 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"EKIrc3.0.m33.yKK7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/743 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 07:37 PM 9/12/97 -0700, Bob wrote: >Quinney wrote: > > > >> I think we all want to see tests where 'everything' is shielded ..where the >> power supply is also contained within the thick metal Faraday cages, and >> where there are NO connections of any kind... not even ground connections. > >This type of testing has been done as well, with electronic detectors. > Hi Bob, I've got it now, thanks. I had been skimming or skipping over some of your Barkhausen posts... Never again. Colin. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 08:11:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id IAA17903; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970915090649.007896c8@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:06:49 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970913021403.0086a5e0@inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"zUxjF3.0.VN4.i_K7q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/744 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Everyone, Someone wrote, regarding scalar wave detectors: >>This type of testing has been done as well, with electronic detectors. With everything fully shielded within an enclosure of superconducting material? So, I'm stubborn. But as I've mentioned before, that is what would convince me... Best Regards, JD ------------------------------------------------------------ The beasts of the wild Will be led by a child And I will be changed from the thing that I am. -Nelson Algren E-mail to: mules@palacenet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 08:31:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id IAA20855 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:31:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: JNaudin509@aol.com Mon Sep 15 08:31:45 1997 Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com (emout04.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.95]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA20821 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:31:41 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id LAA04177 for freenrg-l@eskimo.com; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Old-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970915113023_894388243@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: About the Smith/Caduceus Coil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.9734.emout04.mail.aol.com.874337423" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.9734.emout04.mail.aol.com.874337423 Content-ID: <0_9734_874337423@emout04.mail.aol.com.4676> Content-type: text/plain Hi Greg, Fred and All... Firstly, I would like to say Thank to Fred and Greg about the very interesting informations on Smith's Coil. This is very helpfull for my research. You will find in the attached document some pictures of my Smith's coil..... Specs : - Length = 190mm - Diam = 40 mm - 32 nodes or bumps - 12/10 mm insulated copper wire ( plastic covered ) ( #18 gauge ) Some tests results with a 100 pF capacitor in parallel : with a Grid-Dip Meter ( ALTAI Cat N# Y140 KDM6 ) Dip : 75% at 1.54 MHz Dip : 75% at 2.95 MHz Dip : 40% at 36.80 MHz ---> seem the best frequency for the highest Q Dip : 50% at 12.50 MHz Dip : 60% at 28.40 MHZ I have a lot of tests scheduled about the Scalar Wave Transmitter and on the Smith's Coil but all suggestions are welcome, don't hesitated to ask me..... I hope that this information will interest you, Sincerely, ( This mail has been sent at 15h13 GMT on 15 September 97 ) Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ --PART.BOUNDARY.0.9734.emout04.mail.aol.com.874337423 Content-ID: <0_9734_874337423@emout04.mail.aol.com.4677> Content-type: image/jpeg; name="SMITHCL.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD//gAhSW1hZ2UgQ3JlYXRlZCBieSBRViAyLjAgYWxwaGEg Nf/bAEMAFg8QExAOFhMSExgXFhogNiMgHh4gQi8yJzZORVJRTUVMSlZhfGlWXHVdSkxsk211 gISLjItUaJmjl4eifIiLhv/bAEMBFxgYIBwgPyMjP4ZZTFmGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaG hoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhv/AABEIAqsCYQMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAa AAEAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUG/8QATxAAAQQBAgMFBAUHCwMCBQQDAQACAxEEEiEF MVETIkFhcRQjMoEVM5GUoQYkNEJSseE1U1RiZXJ0stLT8EOzwWNzFiWC0fFERVWThJKi/8QA GQEBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQF/8QAKhEBAQACAQMEAgEFAQEBAAAAAAECETEDEiEE 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bC8vDY4C0k6XN5l5/a6LtRAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBER AREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAR EQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQf/2Q== --PART.BOUNDARY.0.9734.emout04.mail.aol.com.874337423-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 10:07:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA08718; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:07:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:07:03 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:06:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970915130420_1717856308@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: TEP Project update Resent-Message-ID: <"5oDx52.0.582.qiM7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/745 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, You will find some updates and new tests reports in my web site at : http://members.aol.com/overunity4/html/scalwidx.htm Thanks to TEP Team for its very usefull job. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 11:20:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA12488; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:20:31 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:18:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970915141659_-1933468225@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Subject: The Contrawound Toroidal Antenna patent. Resent-Message-ID: <"zXi8Y3.0.133.hnN7q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/746 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, You will find some interesting informations ( 45 pages !!) about the theory and the calculation on the Contrawound antenna at : 5654723 : Contrawound antenna ------------------------------------------------------------------------ INVENTORS:Craven; Robert P. M., Star City, WV Aug. 5 , 1997 FILED: June 7 , 1995 ABSTRACT: An antenna is disclosed that has windings that are contrawound in segments on a toroid form and that have opposed currents on selected segments. An antenna is disclosed that has one or more insulated conductor circuits with windings that are contrawound around and over a surface, such as a spherical surface, a generally spherical surface, a multiply connected surface, a toroidal surface, or a hemispherical surface. The insulated conductor circuits may form one or more endless conductive paths around and over the surface. The windings may have a helical pattern, a generally helical pattern, a partially helical pattern, a poloidal peripheral pattern or may be constructed from a slotted conductor on the toroid. Poloidal loop winds are disclosed with a toroid hub on a toroid that has two plates that provides a capacitive feed to the loops, which are selectively connected to one of the plates. The direct link is : http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/5654723 Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 12:19:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA21092; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970915142003.0069f22c@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:20:03 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: The Contrawound Toroidal Antenna patent. In-Reply-To: <970915141659_-1933468225@emout08.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZTrbw.0.I95.jeO7q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/747 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis...All, Thank you...for pointing this patent out to me. I found it very interesting. Robert P. Craven...why is that name familiar? Does it ring any bells for anyone else? (Ha! I found it...5361737 microwave ignition source for IC engines) Best Regards, JD ---------------------------------------------------- "Somewhere between anticipation and nostalgia we should have been happy." -Too Much Coffee Man #1 E-mail to mules@palacenet.net ---------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 16:39:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA10464; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:38:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:38:36 -0700 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_874398688==_" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: New TEP 6.1 circuit ! Cc: newman-l@emachine.com X-Attachments: D:\SHTEP61.GIF; Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:41:23 +0100 Message-Id: <19970916014123.12657eca.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"z_lDa3.0.KZ2.xRS7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/748 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --=====================_874398688==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, here are a few new ideas to use my new proposed circuit TEP 6.1 to just extract back EMF energy without putting much energy into the circuit and without having a load effect onto the battery. Please look at the attached GIF picture and let me know your view. What do you think of this ? Thanks. 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M*&J8'N$H1TER@VJUDYMRKJ-!2TZ2DSNII`;I1A0BIJ<^G32E6SZYN$2JC91< M`>4I81E+6 X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:57:03 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: New TEP 6.1 circuit ! In-Reply-To: <19970916014123.12657eca.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"YY9rF1.0.sG.F7T7q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/749 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Stefan, all.... This looks similar to a current re-circulating, impact print head, driver circuit. Except you have a winding which removes energy stored in the core, instead of a solenoid. I think you'll find that the integral of the current during the S1 on time, is larger than that in the load resistor. If the bifilar windings are configured for a 1:1 ratio, the input power would then exceed the power at the output. That's just my guess, not having built the circuit, I could certainly be wrong. Best Regards, JD ------------------------------------------------------------ The beasts of the wild Will be led by a child And I will be changed from the thing that I am. -Nelson Algren E-mail to: mules@palacenet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 19:41:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA15646; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:22:17 +1000 Message-Id: <199709160222.MAA25303@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Hydronic radiation Resent-Message-ID: <"aFkXt.0.Lq3.CsU7q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/750 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >That's interesting! Does Minto have a patent? Do you have patent numbers >for the Rogers patents?... I've only seen one tiny illustration of an >underground antenna designed by Rogers. I would be interested in anymore >information you have. > >Thanks in advance, >Fred > >I would like to see the circuit and patent information, please. > >JHS > This will require a trip down to the dungeon. I have a full circuit for Minto's transmitter, and the Rogers patents, but no scanner :-( Will get back in a day or so with the refs. Peter From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 15 23:05:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA11472; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:05:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:05:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199709160605.XAA29879@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" , "Stefan Hartmann" Subject: Re: New TEP 6.1 circuit ! Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:10:40 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Xml2i.0.9p2.S6Y7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/751 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Stefan, > Hi, > here are a few new ideas to use my new proposed circuit TEP 6.1 to just > extract back EMF energy without putting much energy into the circuit and > without having a load effect onto the battery. > > Please look at the attached GIF picture and let me know your view. > > What do you think of this ? > Of course I like it because we are on the same wavelength :-) You circuit improves on mine because L2 is not on all the time. I also think there must be some way to use a permanent magnet in the circuit instead of the L2 coil... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 16 00:13:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA13528; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:01:48 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 03:00:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970916030017_-1700873081@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Smith Coil resonance test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.25475.emout19.mail.aol.com.874393217" Resent-Message-ID: <"eILEh3.0.DJ3.PxY7q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/752 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.25475.emout19.mail.aol.com.874393217 Content-ID: <0_25475_874393217@emout19.mail.aol.com.1361> Content-type: text/plain Hi All, You will find in attached document the resonance tests results of my Smith Coil. I have used a grid-dip meter ( ALTAI KD M6), air core for the Smith coil, and a 100 pF capacitor in parallel with the coil. The energy absorption causes a decrease or "dip" in the oscillator circuit ( of the grid-dip meter), measured by a dc microammeter. The maximum energy absorbed is at 36.80 MHz ( dip = 0.40 ) For more informations about my Smith coil design see also at : http://members.aol.com/overunity4/html/smithcl.htm Sincerely, ( This mail has been sent at 06h50 GMT on 16 September 97 ) Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ --PART.BOUNDARY.0.25475.emout19.mail.aol.com.874393217 Content-ID: <0_25475_874393217@emout19.mail.aol.com.1362> Content-type: image/gif; name="SMITHRES.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdhMAL5AeMAAAAAABERESIiIjMzM0RERFVVVWZmZnd3d4iIiJmZmaqqqru7u8zMzN3d 3e7u7v///ywAAAAAMAL5AUAE/nDJSau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oqq5s675w/MwPANCznd/2Xeu7 X+8n9OGIR+MOGETidMzhs6csTq00qhEqzXaXxzBzWtUux+F0E52mXs9b5XgIrPO+zeDcZ3fi 9XJlVWqEhYQLhomKi4yLiI2QkZJqEmJuXphrcXdvbZdkgXmZZEmfZ51+dJyjWF6DpZ6CX3+E plp/bFGqp3urfayugV25snHBgpPJM4/Kzc6Uz9HSD5XT1tfY2drbk8zc30fe4OPi49/l5tvV RXZ3vpm/bPA8SMb1fO6anH38+DVwdf5pGgiLSDwuq9I5UkiOITh0Dq1BjChtHcWL1m5h3LiQ 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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bCTYT1.0.eT5.lIZ7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/753 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I have just put up 4 of Dr. Hal Puthoff's Zero Point Energy papers in my sites papers section. While the ZPE info might not be new to some of you, I found that Hal's clear writing sytle helped me to fill in some of the corners in my understanding of ZPE. Good Reading. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 16 01:28:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA32117; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:28:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:28:32 -0700 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 02:34:30 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall Sender: ekwall2@november To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: ffSMOT2.gif Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Resent-Message-ID: <"mR_Rb.0.fr7.lCa7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/754 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: KGxhcmdlIDM4MTY5ID0gbXNnIHNob3J0KSBubyBjbG9zZWQgbG9vcCB5ZXQu LiB3aWxsIHJlZHVjZSB0cmFjayB0bw0KaW5uZXIgY2lyY2xlLiBtYXggcm9s 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E5hG+kmZGShBFkQgdhZn/0pr9yVA93EdDZiA+JWG4XKBCXSteJ6GtGqnCQiy dvYrIJ/pBMLpaUxtcTAneKFxmVlVUuqpc0xysUUue8ZZNkVPMQJjoQbqnH0e ODmRfUFKQoTwM0ZAo6xVNK5Rya7uHXUjSmiap2qYAmhCi1GFtCyAjy1FXsDY XrxFZ0QMG47kECtpE7AB70jdUSrp+DXBLSzebOHxbiZTsjFHBDZBEwiiEJAN CiucDQqyPw/y/712cwLkKxconpnSwN5Kq1UZpxAMsA0K7AaSkqsQIOlBB6Vp rK09izE3C7IcDLYJQA0KUJlef7G9kitfZykBA7Re/68cELaBHzR/5zV8DzJA DzJw2KvW8WuEQ/ggq2vfdh0EnmkBz+sVYLZRmkZmZ0K6jfiIi99G02u+jnhm n/bHrKfEvrjCZvBYtrZCrGVc7UjLONFf4ZU25or5WJiC4IoM+8IB2EJADQoN Cg== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 16 05:19:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA23488; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 05:18:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 05:18:59 -0700 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:34:48 +1000 Message-Id: <199709161434.AAA29828@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: The Puharich Papers on Hydrogen Production Resent-Message-ID: <"v8J6d2.0.vk5.nad7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/755 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Thanks to Fred Epps I now have the papers of Puharich on my website A couple of the pictures are almost unreadable so I will re do them again but the rest are okay and the article is interesting to read. http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/puharich.htm hope you enjoy Geoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 16 10:58:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA29731; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:58:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:58:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199709161753.KAA20976@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: , "vortex" Subject: Re: The Puharich Papers on Hydrogen Production Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:00:43 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ld_s81.0.EG7.xYi7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/756 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > Thanks to Fred Epps I now have the papers of Puharich on my website > A couple of the pictures are almost unreadable so I will re do them again > but the rest are okay and the article is interesting to read. > > http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel > > http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > > http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/puharich.htm > Hi Geoff, I was wondering what you were going to do with this very long paper. Good work! I strongly recommend that the Vortexian chemists and electrochemists check this out. It is a well thought out system by a brilliant inventor, it would be easy for you to build and test, and it would meet much of our energy needs NOW. If anybody decides to work along these lines, let me know and I will send you some other bits and pieces I have... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 16 14:21:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA29731; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:58:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:58:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199709161753.KAA20976@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: , "vortex" Subject: Re: The Puharich Papers on Hydrogen Production Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:00:43 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ld_s81.0.EG7.xYi7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/756 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > Thanks to Fred Epps I now have the papers of Puharich on my website > A couple of the pictures are almost unreadable so I will re do them again > but the rest are okay and the article is interesting to read. > > http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel > > http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > > http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/puharich.htm > Hi Geoff, I was wondering what you were going to do with this very long paper. Good work! I strongly recommend that the Vortexian chemists and electrochemists check this out. It is a well thought out system by a brilliant inventor, it would be easy for you to build and test, and it would meet much of our energy needs NOW. If anybody decides to work along these lines, let me know and I will send you some other bits and pieces I have... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 16 17:34:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA25303; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:33:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:33:58 -0700 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:33:47 +1000 Message-Id: <199709170033.KAA08142@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: scalars lost at sea Resent-Message-ID: <"gNNv03.0.GB6.rLo7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/757 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Contrary to the article on Hydronic radiation forwarded by Fred, fish only emit scaler, not scalar, waves, since the reluctance of seawater allows them to distort rather than cancel. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 16 20:23:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA10206; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34204E84.422@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:41:24 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Freenrg-l Posting Subject: Test - Ignore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YXMFz2.0.HV2.gpq7q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/758 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Communications test only - Ignore. -- MV From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 16 21:30:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA01723; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:29:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:29:51 -0700 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:34:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709170434.AAA14701@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: wally wheel Resent-Message-ID: <"FJcXw.0.qQ.-or7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/759 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 05:10 AM 9/14/97 -0400, you wrote: > >>8/hp/24 hr a day >>locally generated >>not taxed >>might be enough to provide a reasonable quality of life(hot >>water, home heat, greenhouse heat) for those that wish to live free >> >>Am I nuts or is this do-able right now? >>8/hp/24 hr a day > >Not so, don't waste your time. It has been tried and does NOT produce that kind of power. Produces a very slow, 1-2 rpm, machine that can not be geared up for useable power. > > I imagine the Wright brothers were told not to waste their time either.Has the author of that last statement experimented along these lines?What was tried what wasn't? Look at the advancement in aviation in the last 80 years who would have believed the advancement from the Wright flyer to the Concord. Don't dismiss a technology just because it is in it's infancy.The Wright brothers couldn't get off the ground untill they took all the worlds accumulated wisdom on aviation and chucked it out the window. If interested in the wally wheel try cooling fins on the tanks, this will give a more rapid heating and cooling cycle.A higher heat difference should also give you more speed. Try installing halogen lamps in the tanks(don't use propane on this one)and wiring it up to a battery to turn on at the bottom tank.Perhaps using gravity,conduction and a geared up generator you may get overunity.You only need to light the smallest light bulb to prove it.Science stores sell a pen with 2 little joined balls on top of it. One is filled with alchohol. holding the filled ball will cause the fluid to flow into the empty. Thus showing your friends what the Wally wheel is all about. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 16 21:33:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA02526; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:33:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:33:40 -0700 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:29:46 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Free Energy List cc: John Schnurer Subject: Gravity Modification Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"172hp2.0.Nd.Zsr7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/760 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A brief report from the gravity lab: Gravity Society US The first reproducible Gravity Modification, or GM, outside of the brilliant work by Eugene Podkletnov was realized last Thursday. Due to need to file patent application exact details of the actual GM device are withheld. We are trying to raise the funds for the application filing fees by license or sale of percentage of patent-to-be. We do have a provisional patent application on file. 1] A 1" sintered YBCO disk from Superconductive Components of Columbus, Ohio, was used. 2] Time variant fields were generated and applied to the bottom face of the disk. 3] The assembly was suspended by thread from a wood balance beam as in earlier experiments. BEAM: a] The beam is 60 inches and a pivot hole withing 1% of the balance point is drilled in the middle. b] A smooth steel pin is the pivot and this passes through a simple stirrup. The purpose of the beam is to divorce the the experimental GM Assembly, or GMA, from the scale. c] The GM suspension point is 11 inches from end of beam. d] At the other end of the beam a cotton string is used to fasten a counterweight on a tether so that it rests on the pan of a digital scale. This is as in previous work. e] Several hundred runs have been executed on similar set up so we are reasonably comfortable with the set up. f] The principle is simple. The counter weight is a little heavier than the GMA and anything likely to be added to the GMA. If for some reason the GMA becomes lighter, the scale then shows increased weight due to its being at the other end of the beam. SCALE: Ohaus 300 gram standard lab scale. 4] The assembly is suspended in liquid nitrogen for the entire run. 5] We take a page from Fred Rounds. Please see his paper at the Gravity Society site www.gravity.org 6] Podkletnov teaches there is a column of effect the diameter of the SC, superconductor, from it going upward. Fred Rounds put a proof or test mass in its path and the SC and the test mass are fastened to the same container. If this is done, and there is a column, and it goes upward then container, test mass and SC all become lighter. 7] We do the same and place the test mass on the SC suspended by threads. If there is column and if it is going up, and if there is GM or modification of reduced 'weight' then mass becomes lighter and so thereby does the whole suspended composite. 8] Typical Preliminary Runs: Test mass, 22.7 grams, 4 US quarters, reduction of 0.4 to 0.6 grams during 12 sequential runs. Test mass, 44.54 grams, 8 US quarters, reduction 0.9 to 1.1 grams. 9] Roughly 2% and effect scales with weight. 10] Effect manifests within 5 to 10 seconds on application of control fields. On removal of control fields effect diminished by roughly 50%. Return to baseling in 30 to 100 seconds. 11] Pattern of item [10] is same in all runs. JHS From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 16 22:48:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA05989; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:48:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:48:20 -0700 Message-ID: <341F7FAC.1518@mediacity.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:58:52 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Ether Drift Experiments.] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"6Snip2.0.UT1.Zys7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/761 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Message-ID: <33A46FDF.3D70@leland.stanford.edu> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 14:42:52 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mmalovic@EUnet.yu Subject: Ether Drift Experiments. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Content-Length: 3141 Hello Miodrag, Yeah, "The Michelson-Morley-Miller experiments ALL showed ether drift." The problem is that none of the experiments were sensitive enough to detect the small measurements required. [And the results were in random directions, as you say.] That is, the error bars were greater than the measurements needed and predicted. Worse, all the results of the experiments were politically slanted -- in order to discredit the aether, to control the emerging knowledge of the structure of the atom, and to build up Germany's Einstein. Worse yet, none of the players (Michelson, Morley, Miller, Poincare, Einstein, etc.) had an existing theory or model of the aether! Thus the experiments, even if they had sensitivity, could produce no results as there were no predictions which had any objective meaning. Basically, the problem was political. An aether theory would be by definition a theory of the continuum (ref Mach). This would overturn the fascist control of knowledge visavis Planck, Maxwell, Dirac, etc. which required that knowledge of electromagnetism absolutely must not be integrated with knowledge of the structure of the atom! Even today, with the world in revolution/renaissance, the covert government/industry machine refuses to relinquish this paradigm. They are prepared to admit that Einstein and everyone was wrong, but only if we agree that the lie of mathematical ZPF is the new ruling paradigm -- promoted by Bernie Haisch of Lockheed Missiles and Space Company, and Harold Puthoff (CIA-sponsored research scientist formerly of Stanford Research Institute). Only government-controlled large corporations will be allowed to research and build cold-fusion, free-energy, superluminal-communication and other technologies -- if we agree to their counter-intelligence. When (the Frenchman) Sagnac built the world's first laser interferometer, and thus proved the existance of the inertial aether continuum (if not its structure) -- this technology was acquired and controlled by the world's aerospace industries. It resulted in little public or theoretical discussion, and no aether theory modeling. The French have always known about the German-sponsored American counter-intelligence operation of Quantum Mechanics and Relativity Theory built up by Planck, Einstein, Sommerfeld, Schrodinger, Dirac, and everyone. Poincare was quite clear about it at first -- SRT was nonsense he said. But the French were out-voted, and came along. If you read the 1905 to 1910 discussions (and later book) of superluminality by Sommerfeld (translated from the German) and Brillouin (translated from the French) -- they stated, not prominently, that obviously the speed of light limitation of SRT was incorrect (and they showed exactly where and when nature violated it) -- but said that they thought Einstein's work was important and they would not contest its rise! That, of course, didn't stop the French from continuing R&D specifically into those areas barred by the counter-intelligence, nor the Germans (and others) who were the first to conduct and publish superluminal tunnelling experiments.. Millennium X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 16 22:50:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA06188; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:49:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:49:59 -0700 Message-ID: <341F8011.719@mediacity.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:00:33 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Stefan Marinov 'successful'] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"zuCnd3.0.WW1.6-s7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/762 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Message-ID: <33E11F8F.4897@leland.stanford.edu> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:28:15 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: apeiron@vif.com Subject: Stefan Marinov 'successful' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 580 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 30 July 1997 World-friend, I received word today, from Francisco Muller, that Stefan Marinov -- to my regret -- successfully suicided this week. I never met Marinov, but had read of his previous self-immolation threats or attempts. All for the purpose of bringing the truth to light; of the covert nature of world physics, and the truth of free 'energy', aenertia or aether. Isn't it time we wiped the slate clean -- of the ruling mindset of deliberate lies, conformist media, selfish misdirection and criminal destruction? We have precious little time, Millennium Twain X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 16 22:50:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA06307; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:50:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:50:33 -0700 Message-ID: <341F8035.AD5@mediacity.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:01:09 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: the aenertial aether] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"xNkpT3.0.KY1.d-s7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/763 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Message-ID: <33E64CA0.2382@leland.stanford.edu> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 13:41:53 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: puthoff@aol.com Subject: the aenertial aether Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2033 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Hal, Thanks for your message. Depends on what you mean by ZPE. If you mean the physical and meaningful, original, analog of 'what is left after removal of thermal frequencies' -- then indeed, a 'zero' 'point' 'energy' has some meaning -- viz reference to 'absolute zero' temperature, and the luminal electronic- and superluminal protonic-scale frequencies remaining there. But the use of 'zero' and 'point' here is very inappropriate, and deliberately mis-directing -- typical of our fascist Western education system and media. We are dealing with the electromagnetic continuum here -- not the formalistic discontinuum of Maxwell, Dirac, Feynman, Schrodinger, Einstein, Planck, or any of the other institutional conformists and covert deceivers. However, ZPF, as promoted by Lockheed's Haisch, and Rueda, Puthoff et al is wholly bogus -- accept as you implore my IMAGINATION, in contrast to my experience or observations. There are tens of thousands of astronomy and astrophysics papers published out there which testify to the nonsense of your promotion. And there is ONLY a factor of ten-or-so debate over the mass-energy density of the cosmos. Not a factor of ten-to-the-ninety-or-so inflation which you (covert appealing) and Haisch dearly love. [I immediately admit that discussion of aenertia, rather than simply 'energy', might expand our dialog by another factor of ten or so.] Yes. My imagination can CONCEIVE of a lot -- but it won't bow my head for a lie (apparent) which only serves to promulgate the guiotine of murderous gangster Washington and his aerospace industry henchman. Maybe you need to find healthier bedfellows. You have become the darling of the world new energy community. Give them a healthier, more productive and balanced mythology to 'imagine'. Give them an honest mythology, one reflecting the cosmic 'wilderness' -- not seeking to accelerate and complete its violation. to nature, to truth; to a world in harmony with nature, Millennnium [http://www.mediacity.com/~muse/mirror.html] [http://www.mediacity.com/~muse/mirror.html] [http://www.mediacity.com/~muse/mirror.html] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 00:32:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA09110; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709170731.AAA24846@iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Fw: TEP 6.0 circuit and PMOD ideas Resent-Message-ID: <"GiMBA.0.EE2.ITu7q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/764 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello TEP group, > Fred Epps wrote about pulsed TEP coils: > >>> Yes, a short time to run the current NI through the coils. DC through L1 >>is ok >>> for understanding, but not needed for "efficient" operation. > >> >>> Or is some overlap required, so it isn't always NI... >> >>That's the key part I'm not sure about. when JLN sent his currents through >>both sides at the same time and turned them off at the same time both coils >>had back EMF 180 degrees out of phase, you'll see it on his site. >> I am now thinking that the NI currents have to be flowing when the load is connected to the load. In Fred's circuit, pulsbif1.gif, when S1 is opened, the current in both coils will decay NI at the same rate they built up. "as low as pS". Then when S2 is closed later, there is no current left for the load. So some overlap is required. When can the L2 (originally with DC) be switched off during the "decay" waveform= I2onI1sw.jpg scope waveform? I tried to determine this today, but ran into problems. My circuit is with the coils in parallel, so with DC in L2, the L1 voltage when off (average) = drain voltage, is very low. But if L2 is turned off, later than L1, instead of seeing another kind of delay,( I guessed), I saw a ringing waveform like you described in the circuit with both coils switched with 2 transistors. The drain voltage was now the battery voltage (average), so there is much more chance for unwanted feedback producing this? I'm not sure if it's this, instesd of Jean-Louis time theory, but with L2 off all the time, or only a single coil used (no bifilar), this ringing still exists. I will investigate more. In your circuit with 2 transistors, one may turn off earlier than the other, producing inductive oscillations. (?) Don't really want to discourage the TEP idea! Whatever the current required in L2, replacing it with a P magnet is very appealing! I looked up for some magnetic materials: B(rem) H(coer), B in Tesla, H in kA/meter Silicon steel ... 0.04 Alnico 5 1.24 51 Barium ferrite 0.22 127 Rare earth cobalt Vacomax 140 0.9 600 (West German trade name) 145 (Co Sm) 0.9 660 200 1.02 760 Cunife 0.54 44 ductile metal alloy Ferroxdure (Ceramic) 0.31 160 So this ceramic is good for H(coercivity), not demagnetizing in an opposing field. Not finding a rod, I've tried (1 or more) disk ceramic magnets with their fields axially with a (only 1 winding now) solenoid. Unfortunately, a solenoid with 33 turns, 3cm diameter, and a switched current of 3 Amps, only produces 30 Gauss (0.003 Tesla) very small with respect to 0.31 Tesla!, 1%. So I saw no electrical difference (on or off, with or without magnet) so far, only a small repulsive force. Before I got on the web in June, I was designing air core electromagnets to produce as large a magnetic field as possible. It is very difficult to do this for a field >0.5 Tesla or larger. I did it with 2 magnets, one requires about 45Amp at 30 volts, so I can run it only a few sec. at a time. The other requires a 800 volt electrolytic cap discharge. Neither seems easy to connect with TEP circuits. Will think of another design now, it really makes one appreciate (the magnetic currents) in a PM. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 00:57:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA23095; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:56:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:56:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3420903C.3DC1@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:21:48 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: the aenertial aether] References: <341F8035.AD5@mediacity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ATdNc2.0.me5.1ru7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/765 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: M.Twain wrote: > Hal, > > Thanks for your message. > > Depends on what you mean by ZPE. > big snip Well Sir....... I'm extremely interested in what your saying;, but was this some kind of response to a private communication with Mr Puthoff? Perhaps you could elaborate a little further on the subject for us? -- ================================================= S. N. Rae, REA, SMNZEI, 7B Mountain View Road, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. Ph: +64 3 578 9160 email:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 03:39:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA05891; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:39:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:39:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199709171038.DAA11079@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Dave Dameron" , "Jean-Louis Naudin" , "Stefan Hartmann" , "Stuart Rae" , "Michael Randall" , "Vincente Ramos" , Subject: Re: Fw: TEP 6.0 circuit and PMOD ideas Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:34:50 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AIcwP1.0.yR1.FDx7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/766 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dave, > Fred Epps wrote about pulsed TEP coils: Dave wrote: > >>> Yes, a short time to run the current NI through the coils. DC through L1 > >>is ok > >>> for understanding, but not needed for "efficient" operation. > > > >> > >>> Or is some overlap required, so it isn't always NI.. . Fred: > >>That's the key part I'm not sure about. when JLN sent his currents through > >>both sides at the same time and turned them off at the same time both coils > >>had back EMF 180 degrees out of phase, you'll see it on his site. Dave: > I am now thinking that the NI currents have to be flowing when the load is > connected to the load. you mean "source is connected to load", right? In Fred's circuit, pulsbif1.gif, when S1 is opened, > the current in both > coils will decay NI at the same rate they built up. "as low as pS". No I don't think so, the way I figured it, maybe not the way I drew it, was that S1 was shorted so it did not have any current in it after the instant of switching. That way L2 was left as an inductive coil with a slow decay time (big L). And as I remember L2 had a continuous current in this idea. I think this idea was superceded by more recent ones. Then > when S2 is closed later, there is no current left for the load. So some > overlap is required. This is the way Stefan Hartmann was thinking with his latest idea. > When can the L2 (originally with DC) be switched off during the "decay" > waveform= I2onI1sw.jpg scope waveform? the reason I dropped the idea of having a current through L2 continuously was that I realized it was opposed to the back EMF that was created in the coil. I tried to determine this today, but > ran into problems. My circuit is with the coils in parallel, so with DC in > L2, the > L1 voltage when off (average) = drain voltage, is very low. But if L2 is > turned off, later than L1, > instead of seeing another kind of delay,( I guessed), I saw a ringing waveform > like you described in the circuit with both coils switched with 2 transistors. Yes, Jean-louis' "bifilar test" waveform. > The drain voltage was now the battery voltage (average), so there is much more > chance for unwanted feedback producing this? I'm not sure if it's this, > instesd of Jean-Louis time theory, but with L2 off all the time, or only a > single coil used (no bifilar), this ringing still exists. I will investigate > more. In your circuit with 2 transistors, one may turn off earlier than the > other, producing > inductive oscillations. (?) Don't really want to discourage the TEP idea! It is quite possible that the dual oscillations in the two parallel coils are the result of parasitic capacitance, in fact I think that is what it is. But I believe it is not important. If this capacitance was eliminated, the rinigng oscillations would diappear but there would still be a typical inductive waveform in its place, and that waveform exists when the source is completely disconnected, and that is the most important thing. I thin kJean-louis originally conceived that the time effect was in this waveform, but I believe the time effect is in the detachment of the two back EMFs from the source that created them. It doesn't matter if the oscillations are there, in fact I think for convenience they should be eliminated. > > Whatever the current required in L2, replacing it with a P magnet is very > appealing! Yes, I believe this is the "next wave" of experimentation. I looked up for some magnetic materials: > B(rem) H(coer), B in Tesla, H in kA/meter > Silicon steel ... 0.04 > Alnico 5 1.24 51 > Barium ferrite 0.22 127 > Rare earth cobalt > Vacomax 140 0.9 600 (West German trade name) > 145 (Co Sm) 0.9 660 > 200 1.02 760 > Cunife 0.54 44 ductile metal alloy > Ferroxdure (Ceramic) 0.31 160 > > So this ceramic is good for H(coercivity), not demagnetizing in an opposing > field. Not finding a rod, I've tried (1 or more) disk ceramic magnets with their > fields axially with a (only 1 winding now) solenoid. Unfortunately, a > solenoid with 33 turns, 3cm diameter, and a switched current of 3 Amps, only > produces > 30 Gauss (0.003 Tesla) very small with respect to 0.31 Tesla!, 1%. Yes, Dragone suggested the solenoid be some distance from the magnet rather than wrapped around it. This makes the magnetic fields closer to equal in strength and has even less demagnetizing effect on the magnet (not that that is a problem with your solenoids :-) Shows the amazing field energy of a permanent magnet doesn't it? So I saw > no electrical difference (on or off, with or without magnet) so far, only a > small repulsive force. It figures. Before I got on the web in June, I was designing air > core electromagnets to produce as large > a magnetic field as possible. It is very difficult to do this for a field > >0.5 Tesla or larger. I did it with 2 magnets, one requires about 45Amp at > 30 volts, so I can run it only a few sec. at a time. The other requires a > 800 volt > electrolytic cap discharge. Neither seems easy to connect with TEP circuits. Well, fortunately with my idea you would be running very short pulses anyway. > Will think of another design now, it really makes one appreciate (the > magnetic currents) in a PM. took the words right out of my mouth :-) The test I'd like to see is simple. What is the difference in inductance of the current when it opposes and when it aids the PM field in a situation like this? Maybe use really weak magnets for a test? Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 06:24:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA26384; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:24:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:24:01 -0700 X-Sender: bfox@istar.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:23:35 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: bfox@istar.ca (Byrun Fox) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Stefan Marinov 'successful'] Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"xrnau1.0.9S6.mdz7q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/767 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Howdy folk; Re; Staphan M. I would like to ask, how do you know it was a suicide? The not-so-skeptical inquirer. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 07:25:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id HAA14709; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <970917092300.ZM10253@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:22:59 -0500 In-Reply-To: Jack DeMule "Variable-Reluctance Generator." (Sep 11, 3:19pm) References: <3.0.1.32.19970911150654.00696748@palacenet.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Variable-Reluctance Generator. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"wAZMe3.0.eb3.jV-7q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/768 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 11, 3:19pm, Jack DeMule wrote: > The picture of David Torrey, a researcher > at Rensselaer, along with a rather large > bit of iron, is displayed on page 35. It's > a variable-reluctance generator designed for > direct drive varaible speed applications, > like wind power, operates at no more than > 120rpm! > > Well, crud...there are no further details. > Still, I'd like to see the drawings package > for this baby! David Torrey's web page: http://www.rpi.edu/~torred/ -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 10:22:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA17639; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:21:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:21:23 -0700 (PDT) From: LASERMIKES@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970917131946_-29111244@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: LASERMIKES@aol.com Subject: Re: Wimhurst Machine Resent-Message-ID: <"lfZkI1.0.WJ4.G618q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/769 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I'm in the process of building one @ 18" My problem is that since the specs were taken out of an older book I tend to wonder what is relavent and what isn't ie: laquure the glass I imagine for and increase of dielectric p[roperties but tyhe glass today is more resistant. It's these little thing that you don't wanyt to overlook if they are importaint. I'll keep plugging away . Oh also 1/8 " glass not 1/4 " guess I'll find out soon. and good God brass ball don't grow on trees there expensive at 2". From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 11:36:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA00400; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:34:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:34:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3420903C.3DC1@mlb.planet.gen.nz> References: <341F8035.AD5@mediacity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:32:09 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [Fwd: the aenertial aether] Resent-Message-ID: <"BboOV3.0.86.-A28q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/770 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Stuart Rae wrote: > Perhaps you could elaborate a little further on > the subject for us? An easier and possibly more entertaining sport death alternative to complete understanding of the claims and views of the Millenium Twain Entity: Stay up all night at least three nights in a row visiting all the conspiracy/paranoia/militia/religious/ufo fringe websites and newsgroups you can find. Rick Monteverde, Agent-In-Charge Honolulu Division Lockheed Psy-Ops (Physics) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 11:51:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA07663; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:51:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:51:08 -0700 Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <970917135057.ZM11515@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:50:57 -0500 In-Reply-To: Richard Austin "Re: wally wheel" (Sep 14, 4:41am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Minto Wheel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"poFFK1.0.ct1.RQ28q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/771 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 14, 4:41am, Richard Austin wrote: > >Am I nuts or is this do-able right now? > >8/hp/24 hr a day > > Not so, don't waste your time. It has been tried and does NOT > produce that kind of power. Produces a very slow, 1-2 rpm, machine > that can not be geared up for useable power. Define useable. I disagree with your assessment. There are some limiting factors in the current design, but IMO can all be addressed and overcome. The only thing this device suffers from is lack of development. There IS readily available technology to handle the rest. See . 24hr/day utilization is unrealistic as the most viable heat source for a MW is solar radiation. > A more interesting device is to use propane for a working fluid and > run it into a solar collector to increase pressure to drive a small > pressure motor. Condense the output gas to liquid with a pump and > then back to the collector. Yes, this does sound interesting. Have you made one? Any specifics? -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 11:59:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA04203; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970917135950.006a10d8@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:59:50 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: [Fwd: the aenertial aether] In-Reply-To: References: <3420903C.3DC1@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <341F8035.AD5@mediacity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"CHVpN.0.Y11.7Y28q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/772 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 08:32 9/17/97 -1000, Rick wrote: >An easier and possibly more entertaining sport death alternative to >complete understanding of the claims and views of the Millenium Twain >Entity: It's interesting to me that a total arbitrary event, like the passing of a millennium, can so effectively stir up the imaginations of the great unwashed. It was no more significance than whatever we decide to attach to it. For me, it'll be just another day >Rick Monteverde, >Agent-In-Charge >Honolulu Division >Lockheed Psy-Ops (Physics) Didn't I sell you an MWO back in the seventies... all you secret agent types look the same to me. Best Regards, JD ---------------------------------------------------- "Somewhere between anticipation and nostalgia we should have been happy." -Too Much Coffee Man #1 E-mail to mules@palacenet.net ---------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 13:03:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA12582; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709171954.MAA29401@claim.goldrush.com> From: "Wes Crosiar" To: Subject: Viewing patent images Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:57:06 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"K1oy52.0.P43.RT38q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/773 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In the past someone mentioned a program that could be downloaded that would clean up the IBM Patent images. Could the person that posted this information please give the address one more time? Also what is a "good" internet phone download site? thanks wes From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 13:25:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA30775; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:25:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:25:05 -0700 Message-ID: <7129AED99644D011B55500805FBEB857CF7BE9@xch-evt-03.ca.boeing.com> From: "Hinman, Jeffrey M" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , "'crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM'" Subject: RE: Viewing patent images Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:24:25 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"sglez3.0.ZW7.Wo38q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/774 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Wes. I have tried the Internet Phone by VocalTec - rated the best. Trial version is good for a couple weeks. Full program is $50 (two licenses) sold in many software retail stores. Try: http://www.vocaltec.com/ > ---------- > From: Wes Crosiar[SMTP:crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 12:57 PM > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Viewing patent images > > In the past someone mentioned a program that could be downloaded that > would > clean up the IBM Patent images. Could the person that posted this > information please give the address one more time? > Also what is a "good" internet phone download site? > thanks wes > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 13:28:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA31917; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:28:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:28:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199709172028.NAA02508@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: [Fwd: the aenertial aether] Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:45:08 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3QS3W1.0.bo7.Xr38q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/775 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > Perhaps you could elaborate a little further on > > the subject for us? > > An easier and possibly more entertaining sport death alternative to > complete understanding of the claims and views of the Millenium Twain > Entity: > > Stay up all night at least three nights in a row visiting all the > conspiracy/paranoia/militia/religious/ufo fringe websites and newsgroups > you can find. > > > Rick Monteverde, > Agent-In-Charge > Honolulu Division > Lockheed Psy-Ops (Physics) I agree, poor Stuart doesn't know what he is letting himself in for...As a former UFO/conspiracy theorist myself (and member of Conspiracy Theorist Anonymous) I know how deadly this sport can be... Fred Epps Man-In-Black-At-Large > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 14:32:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA28315; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:31:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:31:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3420681B.2C62@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:30:36 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Wimhurst Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zk_bw3.0.Fw6.zm48q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/776 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greetings: Geoff Egel and all: I built the wimhurst machine as specified on your page, and the results were not too good. No sparking across the spark gap, nothing at all. First question: Is there something else I have to do that is not specified on the page? Does it require two contra-rotating discs to run (if so, this may be the problem). Thanks. Kyle Mcallister P.S. If I still can't get it to work, is there a place I can buy one from? How much would it cost? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 15:07:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA23762; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:06:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:06:34 -0700 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:06:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Jason Aldo To: "John E. Steck" Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Minto Wheel In-Reply-To: <970917135057.ZM11515@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cUwpV1.0.8p5.dH58q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/777 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > > A more interesting device is to use propane for a working fluid and > > run it into a solar collector to increase pressure to drive a small > > pressure motor. Condense the output gas to liquid with a pump and > > then back to the collector. In one of George Wiseman's books (either Heat 1 or Heat 2), Wiseman gives an account of a man in Florida who developed such a low boiling point working fluid solar turbine. Wiseman said the inventor mysteriously disappeared. Pete Aldo From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 15:10:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA25814; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:10:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:10:10 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970917135950.006a10d8@palacenet.net> References: <3420903C.3DC1@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <341F8035.AD5@mediacity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:07:23 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [Fwd: the aenertial aether] Resent-Message-ID: <"trsHz2.0.9J6.0L58q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/778 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jack Demule wrote: [snip] > Didn't I sell you an MWO back in the > seventies... Jeez, with all the psychotropics we've been slipping into the nation's water supply, who can still remember the seventies? Anyway, it was probably just a NWO... Rick Monteverde, Agent-In-Charge Honolulu Division Lockheed Psy-Ops (Physics) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 15:47:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA02264; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:46:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:46:27 -0700 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709172246.PAA18608@pop1.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq@peseta.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: Re: Viewing patent images Resent-Message-ID: <"lrFZY.0.GZ.1t58q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/779 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Wes, >In the past someone mentioned a program that could be downloaded that would >clean up the IBM Patent images. Could the person that posted this >information please give the address one more time? You can get better images from the IBM site. There's a 'magnify' button at the top of each image; magnification gives you a higher-resolution image. The files are much larger, though. You can do successive magnifications via the button, but I found it more expedient to find the scale parameter that the server sends (appended to the 'location' field of the browser, along with other parameters), and stuff a value in there. I got good results with "&SCALE=1", but it will apparently accept any scale value. A value of 0.15 worked, as did 3.0, though the latter made a *huge* file that my viewer didn't want to print, so use caution. Once you have the scale set, you can page through the patent and it keeps your setting. Can't verify this works with browsers other than Netscape, but probably will. Dan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 16:59:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA16907; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:58:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:58:44 -0700 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:58:31 +1000 Message-Id: <199709172358.JAA25196@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Hydronic transmitter & Rogers patents Resent-Message-ID: <"9-R5R.0.484.pw68q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/780 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Today, I snail mailed an article, including circuit diagrams, about Minto's "Hydronic Radiation Transmitter" to fellow countryman Robin van Spaandonk, who has kindly offered to scan it and make avaialble as GIF's to the list. It is from Radio Electronics magazine, May1967. Gives full replication procedures, including a modified transistor radio for reception. One US Patent number for the Rogers Radiosignalling System (antenna) is 1,303,730. There are about 1/2 dozen other ones by him for same concept. Note that the direction of transmission is axial to the conductor. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 17:17:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA17540; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:58:28 +1000 Message-Id: <199709172358.JAA25193@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Fw: TEP 6.0 circuit and PMOD ideas Resent-Message-ID: <"POBM-1.0.xH4.Nx68q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/781 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >The test I'd like to see is simple. What is the difference in inductance >of the current when it opposes and when it aids the PM field in a situation >like this? Maybe use really weak magnets for a test? > >Fred > Altered rate of induction equals time displacement? Nice idea. Coler revisited. Have a look at the "Nichelson Tesla Studies" available from Rex Research. Deals extensively with this, plus the kind of low coil damping apparently used in the Hubbard and Newman coils. Technically minded readers may like to check out the Lienard-Wiechert solution of the Maxwell equations which show that the propagated EM wave is a time derivative of the velocity, C, known as retarded potential. Given the present focus on tweaking the TEP, I would also strongly recommend a paper by C.W. Rietdijk in Foundations of Physics, Vol. 7, Nos 5/6, 1977, entitled "How Do "Virtual" Photons and Mesons Transmit Forces Between Charged Particles and Nucleons?" Ties a lot together. Theoretical grounding can help to guide experiments. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 17:53:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA29488; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:52:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:52:53 -0700 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: TEP V 6.1a5 - A Weird tuning.... Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:49:45 +0100 Message-Id: <19970918024945.1cf0ce8c.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"oFA0g.0.fC7.Zj78q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/783 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:23 17.09.1997 -0400, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: >Content-ID: <0_19658_874502500@emout15.mail.aol.com.3205> >Content-type: text/plain > >Hi TEP Team, > >This morning, I have continued the tuning of the V6.1a4, which is today the >V6.1a5.... > >The main goal of these tests is to understand the role of the ferrite rod >inside the NI bifilar coils. > >Look at the diagram in the attached document, >I have added a diode D5 and a 100 ohms resistor across the coil L1. >Scope probes are connected for measuring the voltage signal across R5 and R3 >in SAME TIME. > >You have in the right side of the diagram three scope pictures with the >associated position of the ferrite rod inside the NI bifilar. The scope >pictures shows two signal from channel A and B centered on the zero volt >line. > So you display both channels also in the upper and lower picture ? Where is there the other channel ? Only a induction in one coil there ? >The interesting effect that I have noticed is the direct link with the rod >position and the amplitude of the backemf voltage of each coil. >I can't explain clearly this effect, because the coil is an NON INDUCTIVE >COIL ( in appearance.... ). And the coil is have BIFILAR winding, thus the >signal induced must have a perfect symetry ???? Hmm, maybe it depends in which direction the battery current flows through the coils ! Maybe you can try a PNP Transitor and wire the polarisation of the battery inverted and also the pics > >But I have my own point of view about this... :-) >I think that this another key of the mecanism : the time stream propagation >inside the coil.....The non linearity added by the ferroxcube may change the >time flow when the magnetic energy arise and collapse in the coils. > >I would like to know your point of view about this, > >PS: Hi Stuart, Have you seen the same effect in your experiment ? > Yes Stuart, please let us know... Thanks ! Best regards, Stefan. >TEPly yours, > >Jean-Louis >Content-ID: <0_19658_874502500@emout15.mail.aol.com.3206> >Content-type: image/gif; > name="TEP615.GIF" > >Attachment Converted: C:\HARTICOM\TEP615.GIF > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 18:03:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA24293; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:48:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: JNaudin509@aol.com, fepps@mail1.halcyon.com, harti@harti.de, srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz, mrandall@earthlink.net, vramos@ctv.es, ddameron@earthlink.net From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Re : Re: TEP V 6.1a5 - A Weird tuning.... Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:45:13 +0100 Message-Id: <19970918024513.1ceca6a3.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"9sdQS3.0.Nx5.kf78q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/782 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jean Louis, can you please try to change the duty cycle in this circuit to at about 1:99 ? http://members.aol.com/overunity4/images/tep614sh.gif and tell us, if the generated BACK EMF on R3 is still the same voltage ? Or gets its smaller ? Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 18:03:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA31942; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:03:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:03:08 -0700 Message-ID: <34207F22.2D02@LCIA.COM> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:08:51 -0400 From: B25B@LCIA.COM (RON BRENNEN) Reply-To: B25B@LCIA.COM X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Wally Minto Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"paMd53.0.zo7.Bt78q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/786 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi folks: Does anyone know what happened to Wally Minto? I heard that he disappeared mysteriously. Ron Brennen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 18:08:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA24908; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709180053.RAA31563@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Hydronic transmitter & Rogers patents Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:43:53 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0lw3G1.0.256.gk78q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/784 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Peter, > Today, I snail mailed an article, including circuit diagrams, about Minto's > "Hydronic Radiation Transmitter" to fellow countryman Robin van Spaandonk, > who has kindly offered to scan it and make avaialble as GIF's to the list. > It is from Radio Electronics magazine, May1967. Gives full replication > procedures, including a modified transistor radio for reception. > > One US Patent number for the Rogers Radiosignalling System (antenna) is > 1,303,730. There are about 1/2 dozen other ones by him for same concept. > Note that the direction of transmission is axial to the conductor. > Thanks a lot!, I will be interested to see them, I just noticed a brief mention of Tesla's virtual ground system that would not recieve signals unless it is connected to the ground. This might relate... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 18:11:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA25298; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:55:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:55:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: JNaudin509@aol.com, fepps@mail1.halcyon.com, harti@harti.de, srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz, mrandall@earthlink.net, vramos@ctv.es, ddameron@earthlink.net From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Re : Re: TEP V 6.1a5 - A Weird tuning.... Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:54:46 +0100 Message-Id: <19970918025446.1cf5643a.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"2eF4.0.5B6.Em78q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/785 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 16:04 17.09.1997 -0400, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: >On 17/09/1997 20:23:59 , you Stefan wrote : > ><< So you display both channels also in the upper and lower > picture ? > Where is there the other channel ? > Only a induction in one coil there ? > >> >Yes I have displayed the two channels in same time. >The channel A is connected across the Rload R5 and the channel B is connected >across the Rload R3. The common point ( scope ground) is connected in point >C. > >In the FIG 1, we can noticed that only a positive pulse is generated through >R3 (channel B) and NO induction through R5. The ferrite rod is on the upper >position ( on the scheme) > >In the FIG 2, we can noticed a small positive pulse generated through R3 >(channel B) and a small negative pulse generated through R5 (channel A) . >The ferrite rod is placed in the center of the bifilar. > >In the FIG 3, we can noticed that only a negative pulse is generated through >R5 (channel A) and NO induction through R3. The ferrite rod is on the lower >position ( on the scheme) Hmm, that is really strange ! Maybe this is really a scalar to EMF conversion effect !?? I can not understand this from the normal EM theory ! Really strange ! >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >------ ><< > Hmm, maybe it depends in which direction the battery current flows through >the > coils ! > Maybe you can try a PNP Transitor and wire the polarisation of the battery > inverted and also the pics >>> >Possible, but WHY the ferrite rod induce a dissymetrical effect in a Non >Inductive Bifilar ? Yes, really strange effect ! It must be something totally NEW ! > > -------------------------------- > ><< Yes Stuart, please let us know... > Thanks ! > > Best regards, Stefan. > >> > > >Yes I am very interested to know if this effect could be reproduced by >Stuart, because Stuart use a ferrite tore..... I think that is possible to >broke the symetry with a high power magnet placed at one side of the >tore....may be... > >Sincerely, > >Jean-Louis > > > I guess you are on the right track now ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 17 22:16:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA27849; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:04:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: bfox@istar.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:03:14 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: bfox@istar.ca (Byrun Fox) Subject: Re: Hydronic transmitter & Rogers patents Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"Z8Pfb2.0.2p6.APB8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/787 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Fellows I just got a copy of the Radio Electronics Magazine. It talks about two theories, one that some type of presumably longtitudinal wave is emitted by the end plates, which look much like a huge capacitor. The other theory is that the waves leave the transmission line in some perpendicular fashion and travel vertically to the water's surface and then take a 90 degree turn going along the water surface, then taking another 90 degree turn and going vertically back down into the water. I'm not an expert, but the last theory sure sounds wierd to me. The problem is that the recieved field strength seems to decrease along with depth of transmitter in the water. Interesting. Byrun. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 00:04:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA11410; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:04:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:04:38 -0700 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:21:40 +1000 Message-Id: <199709180921.TAA10842@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Wimhurst Machine Resent-Message-ID: <"huzO42.0.5o2.5AD8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/788 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 01:20 PM 9/17/97 -0400, you wrote: >I'm in the process of building one @ 18" My problem is that since the specs >were taken out of an older book I tend to wonder what is relavent and what >isn't ie: laquure the glass I imagine for and increase of dielectric >p[roperties but tyhe glass today is more resistant. It's these little thing >that you don't wanyt to overlook if they are importaint. I'll keep plugging >away . Oh also 1/8 " glass not 1/4 " guess I'll find out soon. and good God >brass ball don't grow on trees there expensive at 2". > >Try using some stainless steel bowls joined together I used these for a Van De graaf and they worked fine although a bit big for the job they are a lot cheaper. Geoff http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel > http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 00:42:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA17026; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:42:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:42:16 -0700 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 01:48:16 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ffSMOT2.gif In-Reply-To: <3420D64A.1ABE@itmi-aptor.capgemini.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ujHW1.0.w94.NjD8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/789 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Philippe LEBOURG wrote: >>From: Philippe LEBOURG >>To: Steve Ekwall >>Subject: Re: ffSMOT2.gif >> >>Well received your mail. Works marvellously. I hope the others on the >>list do not have the same problems or you will have to post it again to >>the list.... >> >>Thanks. 'til soon on the list. >> >>PhL >> >>Steve Ekwall wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Philippe LEBOURG wrote: >>> >>To: ekwall2@diac.com >>> >>Subject: Re: ffSMOT2.gif >>> >> >>> >>HI! SORRY... NOT ABLE TO OPEN OR VIEW THE GIF FILE THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO >>> >>BE ATTACHED!! >>> ok - did this make it? (hope so) >> >>< image snipped > **Trouble here >> It doesn't go through bill's server (sigh) He has a max e-mail of 40k and the .gif (smallest setting) is 38169 before I address anything it must peg-out with the header info. It's the last pic, #19 or #20 (of a set during construction) that is at http:www.diac.com/~ekwall2/ffsmot I'll send this one last time through the group (sorry for the band width guys) if anyone is interested. What do you think of the gif? Are you building a SMOT too?? -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 01:42:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA22839; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 01:41:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 01:41:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3420E936.407F@itmi-aptor.capgemini.fr> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:41:26 +0200 From: Philippe.Lebourg@itmi-aptor.capgemini.fr (Philippe LEBOURG) Reply-To: Lebourg@itmi-aptor.capgemini.fr Organization: ITMI APTOR X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ffSMOT2.gif References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Twv-x2.0.ma5.FbE8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/790 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Steve Ekwall wrote: > > > What do you think of the gif? Are you building a SMOT too?? > Smart! (NB: SMOTs could also spell Smart Magn...) By now, I didn't see a loop forever SMOT, so this is not a true OU, in my understanding; but I *will* build one as soon as there is OU. Keeping tuned for that moment. Regards. PhL From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 03:58:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id DAA24271; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:46:44 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 06:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970918064542_1191048856@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: TEP V 6.1a5 - A Weird tuning.... Resent-Message-ID: <"Ut0Fy3.0.8x5.HQG8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/791 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, On 18/09/1997 09:38:43 , Stefan Hartman wrote : << So you display both channels also in the upper and lower picture ? Where is there the other channel ? Only a induction in one coil there ? >> I have tried to check some enventual inductives effects which could be generated by the bifilar coil : 1) I have put the scope probes A+C(ground) between the two hot point ( dots ), also I have removed the backemf recovery components ( diodes+Rload ). 2) I have put the scope probes B+C(ground) between the output of a third coil (L3) wound around and in the center of the bifilar coil. The result is : - No inductive pulses (just a few noise) induced on the coil L3 with AIR CORE only. - when I push a ferrite rod into one side of the bifilar, I may notice inductive pulse (strong and damped) in the coil L3. These pulses are generated on L3 BUT I have noticed NO CHANGE concerning the inductive effect in the bifilar input (channel A). I am able to put in resonnance the coil L3 by moving the ferrite rods and tuning a proper frequency. BUT I repeat this strange fact, the pulses shape in the channel A don't change....The bifilar seems act always as a resistor...... This inductive effect generated by the ferrite rods in the coil L3 seems have a direct link with the my experiment about the TEP V6.1a5. Another strange fact, if I short circuit the coil L3, the wave shape on channel A is always the same, it seems that there is no coupling between the bifilar and the coil L3. ( L3 have 250 turns of 5/10 (#24) and L1,L2 has 190 turns for each coil). To sumarize this series of tests: - the bifilar coil act as a resistor in each case. - when the bifilar is used in symetrical mode ( with air core or with a ferrite rod centered in the middle ), it is Non Inductive. - when the magnetic symetry is broken, the bifilar begin inductive but in one way, because it act always as a resistor. - Ferrite rods seems the best material to broke this symetry, I have tested iron rod, and the effect is not so important. Lastest TEP news from the TEP Teamwork ( 09/18/97) : Today TEP Version is the V6.1a6 and I have conducted the duty cycle test. The duty cycle of the pulse has been changed from 18% to 94% and I have noticed no change on the output voltage through R3 (100 ohms). The way is open for Overunity ideas..... :-) Sincerely, ( This mail has been sent at 08h20 GMT on 18 Spetember 97 ) Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 04:22:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA03292; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:22:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:22:18 -0700 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: JNaudin509@aol.com, fepps@mail1.halcyon.com, srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz, mrandall@earthlink.net, ddameron@earthlink.net From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: TEP V6.1a6 - DUTY CYCLE TEST - GOOD NEWS Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:19:05 +0100 Message-Id: <19970918131905.1f30f811.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"bpfkq1.0.Gp.exG8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/792 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 03:42 18.09.1997 -0400, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: >Content-ID: <0_16945_874568526@emout12.mail.aol.com.1582> >Content-type: text/plain > >HI TEP Team, > >Today, I have conduct the DUTY CYCLE TEST !!! :-) > >Good news, it seems that the duty cycle has NO EFFECT on the energy tapped. >You will find the scope pictures about this test, in the attached document. >The ferrite rod must be placed as indicated in the drawing for the best >performance...... > >More tests to come stay tuned..... > >Overunity yours, > >Jean-Louis Naudin >Content-ID: <0_16945_874568526@emout12.mail.aol.com.1583> >Content-type: image/gif; > name="TEP616.GIF" > >Attachment Converted: C:\HARTICOM\TEP616.GIF Wow, that is really great news ! I did not expect this, but it seems we are now on the right track for a very easy to build solid state overunity device. Now we only have to find out, which coils will work best and to maximize the output power via different coil and ferrite configurations ! To me, the effect, why it works is still mysterious ! Maybe one of the Scalar WAVE theorists can explain it ? Great work Jean Louis ! Good luck ! Regards, Stefan. > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 05:25:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA00558; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 05:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 05:14:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970917135057.ZM11515@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> References: Richard Austin "Re: wally wheel" (Sep 14, 4:41am) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:08:07 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Minto Wheel Resent-Message-ID: <"vt3aU1.0.d8.CiH8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/793 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > > A more interesting device is to use propane for a working fluid and >> run it into a solar collector to increase pressure to drive a small >> pressure motor. Condense the output gas to liquid with a pump and >> then back to the collector. > >Yes, this does sound interesting. Have you made one? Any specifics? > >-- >John E. Steck >Prototype Tooling >Motorola Inc. A friend built one, burned up the pressure motor because the bearings couldn't take continuous use. Lots of possibilities for using low temp stored hot water. Has been done before. Early 20th century. Works. You can do a web search for sites showing systems using ammonia and other working fluids. Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 06:24:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id GAA05963; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 06:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 06:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:08:17 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: What date Hydronic transmitter & Rogers patents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Dn_ed3.0.3T1.8ZI8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/794 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: What is the date on the magazine? On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Byrun Fox wrote: > Fellows > > I just got a copy of the Radio Electronics Magazine. > > It talks about two theories, one that some type of presumably longtitudinal > wave is emitted by the end plates, which look much like a huge capacitor. > The other theory is that the waves leave the transmission line in some > perpendicular fashion and travel vertically to the water's surface and then > take a 90 degree turn going along the water surface, then taking another 90 > degree turn and going vertically back down into the water. I'm not an > expert, but the last theory sure sounds wierd to me. The problem is that the > recieved field strength seems to decrease along with depth of transmitter in > the water. Interesting. > > Byrun. > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 08:33:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA14925; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:33:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:33:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199709181532.KAA20001@dsm7.dsmnet.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Dean T. Miller" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:32:39 (-050 Subject: Re: Wimhurst Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3420681B.2C62@sunherald.infi.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"-JdCz3.0.3f3.kcK8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/795 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Kyle, > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:30:36 -0700 > From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" > P.S. If I still can't get it to work, is there a place I can buy one > from? How much would it cost? Edmund Scientific (800-728-6999) has a Wimshurst for $172. They also have 2 Van de Graaff machines for $160 and $399. -- Dean -- from Des Moines (KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 09:16:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA29485; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:16:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:16:01 -0700 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709181620.MAA01121@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: missing men Resent-Message-ID: <"DO0Lp2.0.QC7._EL8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/796 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Reading yesterdays mail it seems like a lot of F.E. guys turn up missing or dead. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 10:02:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA04716; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3421848D.3CD9@motown.lmco.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:44:13 -0700 From: francis x roarty Reply-To: froarty@motown.lmco.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wimhurst References: <199709181532.KAA20001@dsm7.dsmnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KrwW9.0.b91.0iL8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/797 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dean T. Miller wrote: > > Kyle, > > > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:30:36 -0700 > > From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" > > > P.S. If I still can't get it to work, is there a place I can buy one > > from? How much would it cost? > > Edmund Scientific (800-728-6999) has a Wimshurst for $172. They also > have 2 Van de Graaff machines for $160 and $399. > > > -- Dean -- from Des Moines (KB0ZDF) also a $45 van de graffe http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/sale31.html frank From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 10:21:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA20439; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:21:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:21:23 -0700 Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <970918122104.ZM16403@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:21:04 -0500 In-Reply-To: Richard Austin "Re: Minto Wheel" (Sep 18, 7:45am) References: Richard Austin "Re: wally wheel" (Sep 14 4:41am) X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Minto Wheel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"Pk7gH1.0.8_4.HCM8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/798 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 18, 7:45am, Richard Austin wrote: > You can do a web search for sites showing > systems using ammonia and other working fluids. Have. Just curious to find out if I've missed anything new. -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 10:42:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA28837; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:42:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:42:03 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970918134029_2086268823@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Dream of Overunity....... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.6397.emout14.mail.aol.com.874604428" Resent-Message-ID: <"4hm5l2.0.L27.eVM8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/799 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.6397.emout14.mail.aol.com.874604428 Content-ID: <0_6397_874604429@emout14.mail.aol.com.6026> Content-type: text/plain Hi All, For your Dreams of Overunity, you will find some "weird" pictures generated by the TEP V7.0....Some tuning of the ferrite rods inside the bifilar coils gives this strange pictures.....completly non-linear..... FYI : The scope probes are connected across the two RLoad output ( at the bifilar output) with the ground connected on common point, and the scope is set in XY mode. Enjoy, Jean-Louis Naudin --PART.BOUNDARY.0.6397.emout14.mail.aol.com.874604428 Content-ID: <0_6397_874604429@emout14.mail.aol.com.6027> Content-type: image/jpeg; name="TEP7WRDP.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD//gAhSW1hZ2UgQ3JlYXRlZCBieSBRViAyLjAgYWxwaGEg Nf/bAEMAFg8QExAOFhMSExgXFhogNiMgHh4gQi8yJzZORVJRTUVMSlZhfGlWXHVdSkxsk211 gISLjItUaJmjl4eifIiLhv/bAEMBFxgYIBwgPyMjP4ZZTFmGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaG hoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhv/AABEIAeACgAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAb AAEAAgMBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwYBAgUEB//EAFAQAAIBAgMDBAwMBAUCBQUBAAABAgMRBBIh BRMxBhZBURQiMjVhcXSBkbLS4hUzUlNWZXKSoaOxwSNC4fA0Q2Ki0SSCJURUY/E2RVVzg5P/ xAAZAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAX/xAAoEQEBAAIBBAIDAAICAwAAAAAAAQIRAxIh MVETQQQiYRQyI0JxkbH/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/AKgSU+EvskZvF2UvF+4WNAAEAABNJ/wIL/U/ 2IiWXxEPtP8AYhJGqAArLKJsT8bL++ghRNi/8RP7TI1PFQAArLJvS7p/Zf6GhJS4y+y/0Czy iAAQAAEjjJU1dPiyM9E6U40U3FpJu/4EBI1ZpgAFZZXE2qfGS8Zqjap8ZLxsL9NAAECSl/N9 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76cdmYRQhBUdIVd+m5Nt1PlN3u34x8GYT5n/AMx2T3T+M+Vx/DgB7AAAAAH/2Q== --PART.BOUNDARY.0.6397.emout14.mail.aol.com.874604428-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 10:52:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA00319; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:52:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:52:04 -0700 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709181751.KAA03508@germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Magnetic cancellation Resent-Message-ID: <"bacpF2.0.j4.2fM8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/800 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Fred and everyone, Because of the rapid advances of the TEP, am digressing to the more general ideas of magnetic cancellation. I reread Dragone's paper and his requirements are different from the bifilar cancellation in the TEP. Dragone talks about a large coil around a magnet to cancel the fields without "stressing" the magnet. The large coil would have the same total flux as the magnet, so fields far from both would cancel. Reminds me of "bucking coils" of different diameters. The effect would still be enough for Dragone. >It is not the matching it is the geometry of the magnet that is crucial >here I think. Even if you come up with a current that is equivalent to the >magnets field it will not cancel it unless the geometry is right. > Bob Shannon points out that if there's any place for the B field you're >trying to cancel to go, it will go there rather than cancel. So the only place for the fields to go is the area at or near the magnet. As the cancellation solenoid is made smaller, the axial B fields would become closer to matching, and the volume where they don't cancel would become more localized. The limit would be the coil wound directly on the magnet, and the volume where "the fields could go" would approach the magnet itself. Sounds like the bucking coils discussion a while back where the 2 radii approach each other. A permanent magnet is modelled as a solenoid, I don't know its effective radius with respect to the magnet's physical diameter (how close can one get?), but is really composed of "billions and billions" of electronic circulating currents, know no way to cancel at that level! Outside the magnet don't know if they can be distinguished, but at least at the domain level, changes can be seen externally- the Barkhausen effect. Jean-Louis' experiments with a moveable ferrite rod in a bifilar coil show (to me) that the cancellation isn't complete there either. Because the coils are displaced axially by one turn when wound bifilar, the coupling to the ferrite from each of the bifilar is different by that small amount, but can be easily measured. That explains the inductive effects only, not the TEP effects such as EMF's in one coil, or the other! The NI requirements are more tight than Dragone's "bucking coil and magnet". By the way, as an aside which he doesn't use in the magnetic solenoid cancellation, Dragone's magnet was also rotating. Guess he was working on a Newman motor. The common mode chokes have changed in the last years. I reread Bob's paper on scalar transmitters (and receivers) using one. Now, because of UL there are not wound bifilar, at least for AC power. If there was a short in a bifilar one, the AC line would be shorted, and if a fuse didn't blow fast enough, the choke would probably explode! (and produce a scalar pulse). So now the 2 coils are separated by an insulating barrier. Bucking is enough. Cheap ones have 2 forms on a ferrite core, and the coils are scramble-wound in them. Thinking of combining them to measure "propagation" along NI wires. I was thinking of oscilloscope waveforms, where 1 uS would be easily observed, but 300 m (1000') would be required. Newer counters can measure several GHz, and if they can measure equivalent time delays, only a small length of wire would be now required. Has anyone done this experiment?? -Dave ps. Data on 2 more magnetic materials. B(remanent) H(coercive) Tesla kA/m Carbon steel 0.95 3.6 Cobalt steel 0.95 18 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 11:28:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA13728; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:28:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:28:06 -0700 X-Sender: bfox@istar.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:27:36 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: bfox@istar.ca (Byrun Fox) Subject: Re: What date Hydronic transmitter & Rogers patents Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"Jv7NG.0.EM3.qAN8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/801 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Radio Electronics, May , 1967 is the source of info. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 11:46:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA19753; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:45:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:45:31 -0700 Message-Id: <342176A3.6E93@tu-bs.de> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:44:51 +0200 From: Tameer Hohnsbein Reply-To: T.Hohnsbein@tu-bs.de Organization: Technische Universität Braunschweig X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [de] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Re: TEP V 6.1a5 - A Weird tuning.... References: <970918064542_1191048856@emout15.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H9u7X3.0.Tq4.9RN8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/802 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jean-Lois and All, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > - when I push a ferrite rod into one side of the bifilar, I may notice > inductive pulse (strong and damped) in the coil L3. These pulses are > generated on L3 BUT I have noticed NO CHANGE concerning the inductive effect > in the bifilar input (channel A). > I am able to put in resonnance the coil L3 by moving the ferrite rods and > tuning a proper frequency. BUT I repeat this strange fact, the pulses shape > in the channel A don't change....The bifilar seems act always as a > resistor...... This is really amazing. Did you also measure the current through the coils and into the battery? In your picture tep61sht.htm I saw a resistor of 1 Ohm in series with the battery that could serve to measure it. If the current will also be the same ... where is my hat?? > > Another strange fact, if I short circuit the coil L3, the wave shape on > channel A is always the same, it seems that there is no coupling between the > bifilar and the coil L3. ( L3 have 250 turns of 5/10 (#24) and L1,L2 has 190 > turns for each coil). > > To sumarize this series of tests: > > - the bifilar coil act as a resistor in each case. > - when the bifilar is used in symetrical mode ( with air core or with a > ferrite rod centered in the middle ), it is Non Inductive. > - when the magnetic symetry is broken, the bifilar begin inductive but in one > way, because it act always as a resistor. > - Ferrite rods seems the best material to broke this symetry, I have tested > iron rod, and the effect is not so important. Fred Epps has read lots of papers to find the best alloy for his magnetic diode. Perhaps he has got an idea which material would be best. I'm thinking of a piece of Fe55-Ni45 alloy which I ordered for a test of his device that will be here soon. Fred, are you listening? What do you think? > > Lastest TEP news from the TEP Teamwork ( 09/18/97) : > Today TEP Version is the V6.1a6 and I have conducted the duty cycle test. The > duty cycle of the pulse has been changed from 18% to 94% and I have noticed > no change on the output voltage through R3 (100 ohms). This is just fantastic! > > The way is open for Overunity ideas..... :-) > Great Work, Jean-Lois! My bifilar coil has a slight bigger diameter than yours (23mm), but I think the difference won't be too much. I will try it immediately :-) Greetings Tameer -- Tameer Hohnsbein, Hagenring 80, 38106 Braunschweig, Germany E-Mail: T.Hohnsbein@tu-bs.de phone : ++49 531 / 335348 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 13:44:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA13978; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:44:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:44:03 -0700 Message-ID: <342191FF.7D58@ctv.es> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:41:36 +0200 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga Reply-To: vramos@ctv.es X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Dream of Overunity....... References: <970918134029_2086268823@emout14.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0bolV2.0.IQ3.IAP8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/803 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Hi All, > > For your Dreams of Overunity, you will find some "weird" pictures generated > by the TEP V7.0....Some tuning of the ferrite rods inside the bifilar coils > gives this strange pictures.....completly non-linear..... > > FYI : The scope probes are connected across the two RLoad output ( at the > bifilar output) with the ground connected on common point, and the scope is > set in XY mode. > > Enjoy, > > Jean-Louis Naudin > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > [Image] Hi, Jean and all, These are fantastic pictures. Someones remember me the caduceous. The two snakes.... the Vimana mercury motors, Schauberger implosion motor, etc. Maybe this is the key for all... maybe all scientific community ignored the caduceous circuits because they thought a caduceous don't have any proof. Maybe one day this dream will be a reality. Vicente. -- Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga E-mail: vramos@ctv.es Home Page: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm Burriana (Castellon) SPAIN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 18:33:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA06218; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:32:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:32:51 -0700 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:28:55 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Free Energy List cc: John Schnurer Subject: Open question "Black box" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pS2v9.0.-W1.2PT8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/804 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Industry at times has used persons as "Black Boxes" for the purposes of enabling technology transfer. The BB is a person trusted by both parties but who does not stand to gain. In the old west sometimes a doctor or a bartender was the black box and would hold a bet. I am looking to see who would be a good black box for the gravity work. I would use Richard Feynman ... if he were alive and he would come. In this case the need for the black box arises from a basic property of the gravity work to date; even though I admit I do not know exactly the mechanism ... it is VERY simple to do. One look from a technical person of moderate background and the reproduction is easy. Any ideas? Thanks, John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 19:15:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA29231; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:00:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970918122104.ZM16403@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> References: Richard Austin "Re: Minto Wheel" (Sep 18, 7:45am) Richard Austin "Re: wally wheel" (Sep 14 4:41am) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:41:09 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Minto Wheel Resent-Message-ID: <"sin6t.0.a87.VoT8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/805 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >On Sep 18, 7:45am, Richard Austin wrote: > >> You can do a web search for sites showing >> systems using ammonia and other working fluids. > >Have. Just curious to find out if I've missed anything new. > >-- >John E. Steck >Prototype Tooling >Motorola Inc. Not that I know of. The potential of using low-boiling-point fluids seems pretty straight forward. Conceivably, using heat pump technology, it could extract heat from ambient air and run 24 hours per day with no energy input, or minimal solar energy input. Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 19:42:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA05397; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3421EF8A.5B95@mediacity.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:20:42 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: our self-less void ... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aYdfS3.0.DK1.JAU8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/806 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: 24 June 1997 09:45 Mojave desert Lookin' inside -- thru horror and pain to peace and beauty, 'midst confusion, distain Findin' this self -- lost somewhere along the way Uncoverin' that one truth -- self-evident yestre-day Where did it go? How did we wander? Why did I stray? >From nature's world aplenty, where self's creation unfolds; To horror, pain and sorrow -- a world with no tomorrow From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 19:43:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA05728; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3421F0A1.7C38@mediacity.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:25:21 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: the Sun she rises ... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7QEFo1.0.LP1.5BU8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/808 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Amigo Mundo, The aether-edition of the RAPR is now out -- both hardcopy and Web. [http://www.mediacity.com/~muse/rapr97.html] Let me know of any corrections, or recommended Link additions. the Sun is rising, Millennium ******************** No Nukes in New Zealand! I have an offer of a 9-month refuge, with possibility of extension. I will show the NuZees (though they don't know it yet) that non-nuclear 'energy' (protonic and aether aenertia) produces much more usable work than thermonuclear fusion or fission, and is totally non-destructive. Bombs and supercolliders have nothing to do with physics or power production, just like astronomy and space exploration have nothing to do with the military -- accept that covert government insists on controlling knowledge of both because they need that lie in order to justify their budgets and their 'prestige' to a media-controlled world. Fascist self-esteem is very fragile. [Fusion in the Sun is not a thermonuclear explosive process -- it is a finely tuned filamentary joining of protons and neutrons, like puzzle building. The lies of thermonuclear physics and quantum mechanics are only necessary in a totalitarian police state where ALL knowledge must justify patriarchal violent authority.] Nature is not destructive, she is creative. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 19:43:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA05500; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:25:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:25:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3421F047.5B55@mediacity.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:23:51 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: World 'Muse' Update! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Y69cp.0.aL1.ZAU8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/807 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: 25 August 1997, Silicon Valley CA World-Friend (Mundo Amigo), The 1997 issue of the RAPR, on the subject of the "aenertial Nature of the Aether", is in final composition. Half of the aether physics-and-technology issue will be devoted to WebLinks. It will be issued in both hardcopy and html. If you have a Site (or a revised address) which you think should be included, please send a note. [Also, send me any email lists you think I should use ...] My new public email address is: [muse@mediacity.com]. To view previous issues of the RAPR (html), see the Links at the bottom of: [http://www.mediacity.com/~muse/mirror.html], where the new RAPR will soon be posted. You can also request hardcopy RAPR -- but send stamps or something. To facilitate future 'muse'-&-news-service distribution in the natural philosophy spectrum (of the Global Renaissance!) I have added your email address to one of a dozen small lists -- each of which has about fifty individuals listed. Please let me know how often you wish to receive my heretical missives (when available): 1) All, 2) Some, 3) Specials only. [Or 'not at all, remove from list'.] My apologies to those who have gotten on one of my lists, against their wishes. ********** In October 1997 I will be relocating, for an indeterminate period, to New Zealand -- where I will be sojourning with nature and apprenticing with Bruce DePalma. For delivery after October 1st 1997, please address all correspondence to: Millennium Twain, c/o the DePalma Institute, PO Box 21-972, Henderson, West Auckland, New Zealand. ********** Approximately thirty individuals have found time to contribute papers or letters, or other significant assistance, to the Global Aether Workshop collaboration in process [http://www.mediacity.com/~muse/workshop.html]. Jim Hodges (Australia) and I are still looking for additional global facilitators, particularly in Asia and Latin America. If you know of any internet contacts in the Southern Hemisphere, or discover them in the future, please let me know. Also, if you haven't already, your contributions on the "nature and structure of the aether" will be welcomed any time. ********** Lastly; does anyone have any further news on the Marinov suicide cover-up? [He jumped off the Graz University building -- the University hushed it up. Georges Bourbaki suspects it was budget-cut related.] Are Marinov's writings being made available? [Not destroyed?] Who is distributing them? Any related news I should spread to the four corners? Via the five aethers? an end to covert physics, and the patriarchs' war against nature!! Millennium Twain as Krishna said, "I rejoice not in your pain; I celebrate only your downfall ..." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 18 23:16:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA32448; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:16:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:16:03 -0700 From: PROTIEUS@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 02:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970919021526_169983606@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Time Travel...?!? Resent-Message-ID: <"a3dg23.0.vw7.XYX8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/809 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: so this is for all those ASTRO-PHYSICISTS out there..do you think it is possible to travel to the past or to the future.. please explain..or give possible reasons with web sites available.. thank you Scotty, a student of astro-physics..and ITT student.. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 19 00:30:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA17600; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199709181751.KAA03508@germany.it.earthlink.net> References: Conversation <199709181751.KAA03508@germany.it.earthlink.net> with last message <199709181751.KAA03508@germany.it.earthlink.net> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "Free Energy" , "Dave Dameron" , "Jean-Louis" , "Michael Randall" , "Stefan Hartmann" , "Stuart Rae" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Fred Epps" Subject: Re: Magnetic cancellation Date: Thu, 18 Sep 97 20:05:54 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EqU2L2.0.rI4.pSY8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/810 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dave, ---------- > Feeling a little punchy so don't get mad at me if I sound too abrupt or "out of it"... > Hi Fred and everyone, > Because of the rapid advances of the TEP, am digressing to the more general > ideas of magnetic cancellation. I reread Dragone's paper and his requirements > are different from the bifilar cancellation in the TEP. OK, I accept that. Dragone talks about a > large coil around a magnet to cancel the fields without "stressing" the > magnet. The large coil would have the > same total flux as the magnet, so fields far from both would cancel. Reminds > me of "bucking coils" of different diameters. The effect would still be > enough for > Dragone. so maybe magnet in center, with partially cancelling coil outside then third winding outside that one to pick up induction? Fred: > >It is not the matching it is the geometry of the magnet that is crucial > >here I think. Even if you come up with a current that is equivalent to the > >magnets field it will not cancel it unless the geometry is right. > > Bob Shannon points out that if there's any place for the B field you're > >trying to cancel to go, it will go there rather than cancel. > > So the only place for the fields to go is the area at or near the magnet. As > the > cancellation solenoid is made smaller, the axial B fields would become closer > to matching, and the volume where they don't cancel would become more > localized. > The limit would be the coil wound directly on the magnet, and the volume > where "the fields could go" would approach the magnet itself. Wouldn't they go INTO the magnet? > Sounds like the bucking coils discussion a while back where the 2 radii > approach each other. A permanent magnet is modelled as a solenoid, I don't > know its effective radius with respect to the magnet's physical diameter > (how close can one get?), but is really composed of "billions and billions" > of electronic circulating currents, know no way to cancel at that level! Nope, its exactly the NON cancellation of these that could make a permanet magnet work in this situation, the field always "pops back up" when you put it down.. that's the similarity to the TEP.. maybe its just a superficial similarity, I don't know... > Outside the magnet don't know if they can be distinguished, but at least > at the domain level, changes can be seen externally- the Barkhausen effect. ?? Don't understand how they relate.. you mean to distinguish ampere currents from usual currents? > > Jean-Louis' experiments with a moveable ferrite rod in a bifilar coil show > (to me) that the cancellation isn't complete there either. Yes, the question of WHY is still up in the air.. Because the coils > are displaced axially by one turn when wound bifilar, the coupling to the > ferrite from each of the bifilar is different by that small amount, but can > be easily measured. I still don't see how that can create the large asymmetries seen. I think they have to arise from either 1) Larger asymmetries in the coils, like both hot sides being on the same end (if they are), or 2) saturation in the core so that its inductance INCREASES when the coils are NI, thus working against the effect we are trying to acheive. > The common mode chokes have changed in the last years. I reread Bob's paper on > scalar transmitters (and receivers) using one. Now, because of UL there are > not wound bifilar, at least for AC power. If there was a short in a bifilar > one, the AC line would > be shorted, and if a fuse didn't blow fast enough, the choke would probably > explode! (and produce a scalar pulse). So now the 2 coils are separated by > an insulating barrier. Bucking is enough. Cheap ones have 2 forms on a > ferrite core, and the coils are scramble-wound in them. I will search the EE master catalog to see if there are other off the shelf components that will work, I was sure that the chokes I saw on PICO's site were bfilar, but it didn't say so in so many words, you're right... > > Thinking of combining them to measure "propagation" along NI wires. I was > thinking of oscilloscope waveforms, where 1 uS would be easily observed, > but 300 m (1000') would be required. Newer counters can measure several GHz, > and > if they can measure equivalent time delays, only a small length of wire > would be now required. Has anyone done this experiment?? What did you think of that Milne paper I sent you? You have to deal with capacitance too which I think will be high in a wire pair unless you get very thin wires like he did... trying for FTL are you? > > ps. Data on 2 more magnetic materials. > B(remanent) H(coercive) > Tesla kA/m > Carbon steel 0.95 3.6 > Cobalt steel 0.95 18 > added to my file.. thanks! Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 19 00:49:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA11093; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:48:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:48:41 -0700 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:06:37 +1000 Message-Id: <199709191006.UAA18401@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: missing men Resent-Message-ID: <"3elyh2.0.Ej2.NvY8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/811 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:20 PM 9/18/97 -0400, you wrote: > Reading yesterdays mail it seems like a lot of F.E. guys turn up missing >or dead. > Woody > > >or maybe they just want to disappear after their devices don't work (maybe) there must be some devices that do actually work Geoff http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 19 01:33:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id BAA02287; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:21:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:21:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <342338CA.10A3@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:45:30 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel...?!? References: <970919021526_169983606@emout03.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Tb4dQ2.0.aZ.ROZ8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/812 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Protieus(?)or is it Scotty(?:-), You wrote: > > so this is for all those ASTRO-PHYSICISTS out there..do you think it is > possible to travel to the past or to the future.. please explain..or give > possible reasons with web sites available.. > > thank you Scotty, a student of astro-physics..and ITT student.. Sorry (I'm not a astro-physicist Scotty(?)), BUT there is no such thing as the 'past' or the 'future'. It's all an inertial illusion that results from the projection of a physical universe we call the 'present'. So if you want to do any REALLY serious 'time' travel - that might just look like as if it belongs to some 'past' or to some concept of the 'future' - you'll have to do it by adjusting your infinite 'present'. No, it's not impossible, but as they say, "Ah, there's the rub":-) And that's why any conventional concept of 'time travel' is so ridiculously impossible, and why so much of the present scientific paradigm is so screwed up. Despite the many learned volumes and theoretical tomes on the subject, time is not a "dimensional" vector of a singular physical universe in any sense. It's nothing more than a clever inertial illusion of the current physical reality you choose to find yourself in. And I don't think you need an Astro-physicist or a "web site" to figure that one out:-) Regards, SR -- ================================================= S. N. Rae, REA, SMNZEI, 7B Mountain View Road, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. Ph: +64 3 578 9160 email:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 19 03:19:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA28227; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 03:19:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 03:19:20 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 06:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970919061731_640597238@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: gwatson@microtronics.com.au, fepps@mail1.halcyon.com Subject: A patent for a converting ZPF EM radiation to electrical energy. Resent-Message-ID: <"oIYe31.0.yu6.c6b8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/813 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, You will find a very interesting patent bellow : 5590031 : System for converting electromagnetic radiation energy to electrical energy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ INVENTORS:Mead, Jr.; Franklin B., Lancaster, CA 93535 Nachamkin; Jack, Poway, CA 92064 ABSTRACT: A system is disclosed for converting high frequency zero point electromagnetic radiation energy to electrical energy. The system includes a pair of dielectric structures which are positioned proximal to each other and which receive incident zero point electromagnetic radiation. The volumetric sizes of the structures are selected so that they resonate at a frequency of the incident radiation. The volumetric sizes of the structures are also slightly different so that the secondary radiation emitted therefrom at resonance interfere with each other producing a beat frequency radiation which is at a much lower frequency than that of the incident radiation and which is amenable to conversion to electrical energy. An antenna receives the beat frequency radiation. The beat frequency radiation from the antenna is transmitted to a converter via a conductor or waveguide and converted to electrical energy having a desired voltage and waveform. >> The direct link is :http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/5590031 Sincerely, Jean-louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 19 05:13:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA09699; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:13:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:13:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3422886B.3265@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:13:00 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel...?!? References: <970919021526_169983606@emout03.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WSf0A2.0.LN2.Znc8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/814 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: PROTIEUS@aol.com wrote: > > so this is for all those ASTRO-PHYSICISTS out there..do you think it is > possible to travel to the past or to the future.. please explain..or give > possible reasons with web sites available.. > > thank you Scotty, a student of astro-physics..and ITT student.. No, I don't think time travel is possible. For several reasons: 1. Time is not relative, as Einstein said, but absolute. 2. The past is past. It is simply how space was a moment ago. To get to the past, you have to reset EVERYTHING in the universe to exactly how it was then. 3. The future has not been 'written' yet. We haven't 'created' it. I'll send a URL for a paper explaining it. Kyle From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 19 05:24:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA12647 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:24:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: diversified@freeyellow.com Fri Sep 19 05:24:36 1997 Received: from ns1.planetc.com (root@ns2.planetc.com [207.65.96.2]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA12617 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (knox-dialup-52.planetc.com [207.65.99.52]) by ns1.planetc.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA05526 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:24:42 GMT Message-ID: <34226EC9.576C@freeyellow.com> Old-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:23:37 -0400 From: Diversified Equity Ventures X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: re: SAP tube Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: To: Ossie Callanan From: Stephen Brummitt Dear Ossie, I was just looking over the old posts to the Newman-L list, and came across a reference to the URL : http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/sap.txt Which outlines - The Self Accelerating Plasma Tube. I was wondering if you had any better construction diagrams, and or pictures of this device, which you would send me. I will gladly pay for any mailing costs. Thank you for your time. -- Stephen Brummitt Managing Director Diversified Equity Ventures 8905 Suite #140 Kingston Pike Knoxville, TN 37923 http://www.freeyellow.com/members/diversified/ -------------------------------------------- ...speaking of Michael Jackson ... "Only in America could a black boy' grow up to be a white woman" - Star Jones on The View TV show -------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 19 06:03:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA15830; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:52:00 -0700 (PDT) From: chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com Message-Id: <199709191250.IAA10993@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 08:49:42 -0400 To: "Kyle R. Mcallister" , freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3422886B.3265@sunherald.infi.net> Subject: Re: Time Travel...?!? X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.30a (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"JDfB7.0.Ct3.iLd8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/815 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In <3422886B.3265@sunherald.infi.net>, on 09/19/97 at 07:13 AM, "Kyle R. Mcallister" said: >No, I don't think time travel is possible. For several reasons: ..... >I'll send a URL for a paper explaining it. While I disagree, I would like the URL for the paper myself. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 19 10:13:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA12958; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970919125338.00823b50@inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:53:41 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: World 'Muse' Update! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"gKzVr2.0.MA3.syg8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/816 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 07:23 PM 9/18/97 -0800, Millennium Twain wrote: > >In October 1997 I will be relocating, for an indeterminate period, to >New Zealand -- where I will be sojourning with nature and apprenticing >with Bruce DePalma. For delivery after October 1st 1997, please >address all correspondence to: Millennium Twain, c/o the DePalma >Institute, PO Box 21-972, Henderson, West Auckland, New Zealand. > >********** If you get the chance, can you let us know if Bruce DePalma is aware of any replications or improvements to his 20,000 rpm "spinning balls" gravity drop experiments of the 70's? Colin Quinney. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 19 11:02:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA19774; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:01:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:01:49 -0700 From: chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com Message-Id: <199709191801.OAA06852@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 13:55:26 -0400 To: "Kyle R. Mcallister" In-Reply-To: <3422D7EA.4449@sunherald.infi.net> Cc: "Free Enegy Dudes" Subject: Re: Time Travel...?!? X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.30a (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"NGxOE3.0.nq4.Buh8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/818 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In <3422D7EA.4449@sunherald.infi.net>, on 09/19/97 at 12:52 PM, "Kyle R. Mcallister" said: >chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com wrote: >> >> In <3422886B.3265@sunherald.infi.net>, on 09/19/97 >> at 07:13 AM, "Kyle R. Mcallister" said: >> >> >No, I don't think time travel is possible. For several reasons: >> >> While I disagree, I would like the URL for the paper myself. >> >Nothing wrong with dissagreeing with me. I could very well be wrong. Its >just my oppinion. I agree totally with that. I may be the one who is wrong. All I do know is that one of us *must* be right. Anyone who is so steadfast in thier opinion that they are not open to other ideas will never be able to find the truth. That's the problem as I see it with mainstream science. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 19 11:06:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA20419; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3422D7EA.4449@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:52:11 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel...?!? References: <199709191250.IAA10993@transfer.stratus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"B-SE01.0.y-4.Kmh8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/817 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com wrote: > > In <3422886B.3265@sunherald.infi.net>, on 09/19/97 > at 07:13 AM, "Kyle R. Mcallister" said: > > >No, I don't think time travel is possible. For several reasons: > ..... > >I'll send a URL for a paper explaining it. > > While I disagree, I would like the URL for the paper myself. > Nothing wrong with dissagreeing with me. I could very well be wrong. Its just my oppinion. Here's the URL: http://monet.physik.unibas.ch/~schatzer/space-time.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 19 12:36:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA02333; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:22:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:22:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jiyani@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:18:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970919151238_1358024982@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Open question "Black box" Resent-Message-ID: <"8Kgtr3.0.Ga.s3j8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/819 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Use multiple "gray boxes". In other words divide the secret stuff into multiple parts then transport the information by several carriers who are unknown to each other and unknown to anyone except the sender and recipient. Not even the couriers will know what they are carrying and the only one able to assemble it will be the recipient of all the parts. After all parts are received safely and without interception, then you can inform the recipient how to assemble the parts. If that is not secure enough you can also encode the information before sending. If you need a code system, I have one that has stood against all cracking for over a century, even the attempts by CIA. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 19 21:13:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA02069; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:11:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:11:53 -0700 Message-ID: <34234A6C.9883E849@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:30:44 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server NeoTech , List Server Newman , List Server Vortex Subject: Greg Watson & Greg Watson Consulting Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VwWXz3.0.7W.6qq8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/820 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, As some of you have requested more info on what I do, when I'm not Smotting, I have updated my site with a rundown on Greg Watson & Greg Watson Consulting. I have listed most of my better inventions and product developments. "You have such big glasses Grandmother" said Little Red Riding Hood, "All the better to see you with my Dear" said the Wolf. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 19 22:14:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA10051; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:13:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:13:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199709200505.WAA22865@claim.goldrush.com> From: "Wes Crosiar" To: Subject: Re: World 'Muse' Update! Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:07:56 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jnaH1.0.xS2.Ekr8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/821 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hey there are some great patents in australia [sorry if the spelling is wrong] where do you get them. [Adams, newman etc.] thanks wes From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 19 23:46:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA28134; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:45:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:45:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3423616D.6D80116F@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:08:53 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server Freenrg Subject: Re: eprint: Theory of Hysteresis Loop in Ferromagnet References: <342243D4.D6A1FEF2@verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eqhvH2.0.Lt6.74t8q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/822 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hamdi Ucar wrote: > > Condensed Matter, cond-mat/9709194 > > Theory of Hysteresis Loop in Ferromagnet > > Authors: Igor F.Lyuksyutov, Thomas Nattermann, Valery Pokrovsky > Abstract: A theory of the hysteresis loop in ferromagnets controlled by > the domain wall motion is presented. > > Published at 17 Sep 97, available at > http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/cond-mat/9709194 > > Mostly for Watson, > > hamdi ucar Hi Hamdi, Thanks for the article. I have always believed that domain wall movement (and its restriction) was what caused ferromagnetic hysteresis, permeability and Barkhausen noise. Its the crystal imperfections which cause domain wall pinning, Barkhausen noise and low permeability. A perfect crystal structure would exhibit very high permeability, NO Barkhausen noise and reach saturation with almost no applied H field. Have you ever seen a demo with a very high permeability rod (>200,000), aligned to the earth's field (dip as well) pick up small nails then drop them as the rod is unaligned by approx 15 deg? Its very impressive. Here we have a applied H field of around 0.5 Gauss amplified to several hundred gauss. Most ferrites will not even start to show alignment at such low H fields. Interesting stuff ferromagnetics. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 20 00:53:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA28262; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:49:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:49:56 -0700 Message-ID: <34237E4C.A9B595A3@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:12:04 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex , List Server Newman Subject: Steve Ekwall's ffSMOT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gl12e1.0.Mv6.Y0u8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/823 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I have added Steve Ekwall's ffSMOT page to my link list. Looks like a race to see if I can ship my Mk4 units before Steve gets his unit "Closed". Good work Steve. The standard of your work looks very high. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 20 06:20:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA21299; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 06:20:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 06:20:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3423E993.77CB@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 08:19:48 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Geoff Egel's magnetic device Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DOG4V.0.dC5.Asy8q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/824 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greetings: Geoff: (and all) I saw the magnetic device on your web page. I have some ideas on how to make it do some 'intersting' things... Mind if I try? Results will be posted here. Kyle Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 20 10:34:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA20618; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:33:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:33:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199709201725.KAA05307@claim.goldrush.com> From: "Wes Crosiar" To: Subject: patents Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:27:30 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a4IcU1.0.325.eZ09q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/825 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To all: I received a copy of the robert adams patent from australia. It is fantastic to say the least. I am not sure it is complete and would like a copy of it and: 1. 1970 PULSED ELECTRIC MOTOR GENERATOR [ADAMS] 2, 1987 SELF SUSTAINING MOTOR GENERATOR [ADAMS] 3. 1990 SELF SUSTAINING ORBITAL MOTOR GENERATOR [ADAMS] 4. 1992 PULSED SCALAR WAVE DETECTOR AMPLIFIER MOTOR GENERATOR. [ADAMS] I WOULD LIKE TO OBTAIN COPIES OF THESE. ALSO I BELIEVE THE NEWMAN MOTOR PATENT IS OVER THERE. IF ANYONE CAN TELL ME HOW TO OBTAIN THEM I WOULD APPRECIATE IT. THANKS WES From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 20 17:35:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA26198 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:35:00 -0700 Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:35:00 -0700 X-Envelope-From: nortel.postmaster@nortel.ca Sat Sep 20 17:34:59 1997 Received: from bcarsbf5.localhost (x400bnr.nortel.ca [192.58.194.78]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA26176 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:34:49 -0700 From: nortel.postmaster@nortel.ca Received: from brtpsa05.rtp.bnr.ca (actually 47.239.68.230) by bcarsbf5.localhost; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:34:30 -0400 Received: from bnr.ca by brtpsa05.bnr.ca id <05292-1@brtpsa05.bnr.ca>; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:33:36 -0400 X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;brtpsa05.b.704:20.09.97.20.47.49] To: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Subject: Delivery Report (failure) for /dd.id=1034651/g=gene/i=g/s=batten/prmd=bnr/@bnr.ca Message-Type: Delivery Report Old-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:33:36 -0400 Message-ID: <"brtpsa05.b.704:20.09.97.20.47.49"@bnr.ca> Content-Identifier: freenrg-diges... MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="zIc185G7eO7vpfl1kvRvV8wuAGVdiCm3" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: RO X-Status: > > This is a MIME Encoded message. If you are reading this text, > then your mail reader does not support the MIME (Multipurpose > Internet Mail Extensions) standard. To take full advantage of > the features of this message, you need to upgrade your mailer to > a MIME V1.0 compliant package. Some parts of this message may > be in human readable form. > > MIME Decoding Utilities > ----------------------- > To make use of this encoded message, you can decode it using > a MIME Decoding utility. The following are some freely available > MIME decoding utilities: > > UNIX Users > ----------- > Metamail : ftp://ftp.bellcore.com/pub/nsb/mm2.7.tar.Z > This is the Metamail source code distribution. > Mpack : ftp://ftp.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/mpack/mpack-1.5-src.tar.Z > Source code for all platforms. > MACINTOSH Users > --------------- > Mpack : ftp://ftp.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/mpack/mpack-1.5-mac.hqx > Contains the Macintosh binaries > PC Users > --------- > Metamail : ftp://ftp.bellcore.com/pub/nsb/mm2.7.dos.zip > This is the MS-DOS binaries > > Mpack : ftp://ftp.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/mpack/mpack15d.zip > This contains the MS-DOS binaries > MIME-Aware Mail User Agents > --------------------------- > Note that the following Mail User Agents support MIME and hence if > one of these are used the message will be automatically decoded > be in a readable state: > Elm Version 2.4 (UNIX) > ftp://ftp.uu.net/networking/mail/elm > Eudora 1.4.4 (Macintosh, MS-Windows) > ftp://ftp.qualcomm.com/quest/eudora/windows/1.4/eudor144.exe > ftp://ftp.qualcomm.com/quest/eudora/mac/1.4/eudora144.hqx > Pegasus mail (MS-DOS, MS-Windows, Macintosh) > ftp://risc.ua.edu/pub/network/pegasus/* > Pine (UNIX) > ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu/pine/pine.tar.Z > --zIc185G7eO7vpfl1kvRvV8wuAGVdiCm3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This report relates to your message: Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #46, Message-ID: <199709190215.TAA02991@mx2.eskimo.com>, To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com of Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:37:23 -0400 Your message was not delivered to /dd.id=1034651/g=gene/i=g/s=batten/prmd=bnr/@bnr.ca for the following reason: Message timed out ***** The following information is directed towards the local administrator ***** and is not intended for the end user * * DR generated by: mta brtpsa05.bnr.ca * in /PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/ * at Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:47:49 -0400 * * Converted to RFC 822 at bnr.ca at Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:33:37 -0400 * * Delivery Report Contents: * * Subject-Submission-Identifier: [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;<199709190215.TAA02991@mx2.eskim] * Content-Identifier: freenrg-diges... * Original-Encoded-Information-Types: ia5-text * Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/arrival Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:37:23 -0400 action Relayed * Content-Correlator: Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #46, * Message-ID: <199709190215.TAA02991@mx2.eskimo.com>, * To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com * Recipient-Info: /dd.id=1034651/g=gene/i=g/s=batten/prmd=bnr/@bnr.ca, * /DD.id=1034651/I=g/G=gene/S=batten/PRMD=bnr/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/; * FAILURE reason Unable-To-Transfer (1); * diagnostic Maximum-Time-Expired (5); * last trace (ia5-text) Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:37:23 -0400; * converted eits ia5-text; ****** End of administration information --zIc185G7eO7vpfl1kvRvV8wuAGVdiCm3 Content-type: message/rfc822 Received: from brtpsa0a.localhost (actually brtpsa0a.rtp.bnr.ca) by brtpsa05.rtp.bnr.ca; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:38:01 -0400 Received: from mx2.eskimo.com by brtpsa0a.localhost; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:33:25 -0400 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA02991; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:15:49 -0700 (PDT) From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Message-Id: <199709190215.TAA02991@mx2.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #46 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/46 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > This is a MIME Encoded message. If you are reading this text, > then your mail reader does not support the MIME (Multipurpose > Internet Mail Extensions) standard. To take full advantage of > the features of this message, you need to upgrade your mailer to > a MIME V1.0 compliant package. Some parts of this message may > be in human readable form. > > MIME Decoding Utilities > ----------------------- > To make use of this encoded message, you can decode it using > a MIME Decoding utility. The following are some freely available > MIME decoding utilities: > > UNIX Users > ----------- > Metamail : ftp://ftp.bellcore.com/pub/nsb/mm2.7.tar.Z > This is the Metamail source code distribution. > Mpack : ftp://ftp.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/mpack/mpack-1.5-src.tar.Z > Source code for all platforms. > MACINTOSH Users > --------------- > Mpack : ftp://ftp.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/mpack/mpack-1.5-mac.hqx > Contains the Macintosh binaries > PC Users > --------- > Metamail : ftp://ftp.bellcore.com/pub/nsb/mm2.7.dos.zip > This is the MS-DOS binaries > > Mpack : ftp://ftp.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/mpack/mpack15d.zip > This contains the MS-DOS binaries > MIME-Aware Mail User Agents > --------------------------- > Note that the following Mail User Agents support MIME and hence if > one of these are used the message will be automatically decoded > be in a readable state: > Elm Version 2.4 (UNIX) > ftp://ftp.uu.net/networking/mail/elm > Eudora 1.4.4 (Macintosh, MS-Windows) > ftp://ftp.qualcomm.com/quest/eudora/windows/1.4/eudor144.exe > ftp://ftp.qualcomm.com/quest/eudora/mac/1.4/eudora144.hqx > Pegasus mail (MS-DOS, MS-Windows, Macintosh) > ftp://risc.ua.edu/pub/network/pegasus/* > Pine (UNIX) > ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu/pine/pine.tar.Z > ------------------------------ Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 00:30:33 +0000 freenrg-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 46 Today's Topics: Dream of Overunity....... Magnetic cancellation Re: What date Hydronic transmitter & Rogers patents Re: Re : Re: TEP V 6.1a5 - A Weird tuning.... Re: Dream of Overunity....... Open question "Black box" ------------------------------ Content-type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:41:20 -0400 (EDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Dream of Overunity....... Message-ID: <970918134029_2086268823@emout14.mail.aol.com> Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.6397.emout14.mail.aol.com.874604428" --PART.BOUNDARY.0.6397.emout14.mail.aol.com.874604428 Content-ID: <0_6397_874604429@emout14.mail.aol.com.6026> Content-type: text/plain Hi All, For your Dreams of Overunity, you will find some "weird" pictures generated by the TEP V7.0....Some tuning of the ferrite rods inside the bifilar coils gives this strange pictures.....completly non-linear..... FYI : The scope probes are connected across the two RLoad output ( at the bifilar output) with the ground connected on common point, and the scope is set in XY mode. 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76cdmYRQhBUdIVd+m5Nt1PlN3u34x8GYT5n/AMx2T3T+M+Vx/DgB7AAAAAH/2Q== --PART.BOUNDARY.0.6397.emout14.mail.aol.com.874604428-- ------------------------------ Content-type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:51:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Dameron To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnetic cancellation Message-Id: <199709181751.KAA03508@germany.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Fred and everyone, Because of the rapid advances of the TEP, am digressing to the more general ideas of magnetic cancellation. I reread Dragone's paper and his requirements are different from the bifilar cancellation in the TEP. Dragone talks about a large coil around a magnet to cancel the fields without "stressing" the magnet. The large coil would have the same total flux as the magnet, so fields far from both would cancel. Reminds me of "bucking coils" of different diameters. The effect would still be enough for Dragone. >It is not the matching it is the geometry of the magnet that is crucial >here I think. Even if you come up with a current that is equivalent to the >magnets field it will not cancel it unless the geometry is right. > Bob Shannon points out that if there's any place for the B field you're >trying to cancel to go, it will go there rather than cancel. So the only place for the fields to go is the area at or near the magnet. As the cancellation solenoid is made smaller, the axial B fields would become closer to matching, and the volume where they don't cancel would become more localized. The limit would be the coil wound directly on the magnet, and the volume where "the fields could go" would approach the magnet itself. Sounds like the bucking coils discussion a while back where the 2 radii approach each other. A permanent magnet is modelled as a solenoid, I don't know its effective radius with respect to the magnet's physical diameter (how close can one get?), but is really composed of "billions and billions" of electronic circulating currents, know no way to cancel at that level! Outside the magnet don't know if they can be distinguished, but at least at the domain level, changes can be seen externally- the Barkhausen effect. Jean-Louis' experiments with a moveable ferrite rod in a bifilar coil show (to me) that the cancellation isn't complete there either. Because the coils are displaced axially by one turn when wound bifilar, the coupling to the ferrite from each of the bifilar is different by that small amount, but can be easily measured. That explains the inductive effects only, not the TEP effects such as EMF's in one coil, or the other! The NI requirements are more tight than Dragone's "bucking coil and magnet". By the way, as an aside which he doesn't use in the magnetic solenoid cancellation, Dragone's magnet was also rotating. Guess he was working on a Newman motor. The common mode chokes have changed in the last years. I reread Bob's paper on scalar transmitters (and receivers) using one. Now, because of UL there are not wound bifilar, at least for AC power. If there was a short in a bifilar one, the AC line would be shorted, and if a fuse didn't blow fast enough, the choke would probably explode! (and produce a scalar pulse). So now the 2 coils are separated by an insulating barrier. Bucking is enough. Cheap ones have 2 forms on a ferrite core, and the coils are scramble-wound in them. Thinking of combining them to measure "propagation" along NI wires. I was thinking of oscilloscope waveforms, where 1 uS would be easily observed, but 300 m (1000') would be required. Newer counters can measure several GHz, and if they can measure equivalent time delays, only a small length of wire would be now required. Has anyone done this experiment?? -Dave ps. Data on 2 more magnetic materials. B(remanent) H(coercive) Tesla kA/m Carbon steel 0.95 3.6 Cobalt steel 0.95 18 ------------------------------ Content-type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:27:36 -0700 From: bfox@istar.ca (Byrun Fox) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What date Hydronic transmitter & Rogers patents Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Radio Electronics, May , 1967 is the source of info. ------------------------------ Content-type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:44:51 +0200 From: Tameer Hohnsbein To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Re: TEP V 6.1a5 - A Weird tuning.... Message-Id: <342176A3.6E93@tu-bs.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jean-Lois and All, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > - when I push a ferrite rod into one side of the bifilar, I may notice > inductive pulse (strong and damped) in the coil L3. These pulses are > generated on L3 BUT I have noticed NO CHANGE concerning the inductive effect > in the bifilar input (channel A). > I am able to put in resonnance the coil L3 by moving the ferrite rods and > tuning a proper frequency. BUT I repeat this strange fact, the pulses shape > in the channel A don't change....The bifilar seems act always as a > resistor...... This is really amazing. Did you also measure the current through the coils and into the battery? In your picture tep61sht.htm I saw a resistor of 1 Ohm in series with the battery that could serve to measure it. If the current will also be the same ... where is my hat?? > > Another strange fact, if I short circuit the coil L3, the wave shape on > channel A is always the same, it seems that there is no coupling between the > bifilar and the coil L3. ( L3 have 250 turns of 5/10 (#24) and L1,L2 has 190 > turns for each coil). > > To sumarize this series of tests: > > - the bifilar coil act as a resistor in each case. > - when the bifilar is used in symetrical mode ( with air core or with a > ferrite rod centered in the middle ), it is Non Inductive. > - when the magnetic symetry is broken, the bifilar begin inductive but in one > way, because it act always as a resistor. > - Ferrite rods seems the best material to broke this symetry, I have tested > iron rod, and the effect is not so important. Fred Epps has read lots of papers to find the best alloy for his magnetic diode. Perhaps he has got an idea which material would be best. I'm thinking of a piece of Fe55-Ni45 alloy which I ordered for a test of his device that will be here soon. Fred, are you listening? What do you think? > > Lastest TEP news from the TEP Teamwork ( 09/18/97) : > Today TEP Version is the V6.1a6 and I have conducted the duty cycle test. The > duty cycle of the pulse has been changed from 18% to 94% and I have noticed > no change on the output voltage through R3 (100 ohms). This is just fantastic! > > The way is open for Overunity ideas..... :-) > Great Work, Jean-Lois! My bifilar coil has a slight bigger diameter than yours (23mm), but I think the difference won't be too much. I will try it immediately :-) Greetings Tameer -- Tameer Hohnsbein, Hagenring 80, 38106 Braunschweig, Germany E-Mail: T.Hohnsbein@tu-bs.de phone : ++49 531 / 335348 ------------------------------ Content-type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:41:36 +0200 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Dream of Overunity....... Message-ID: <342191FF.7D58@ctv.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Hi All, > > For your Dreams of Overunity, you will find some "weird" pictures generated > by the TEP V7.0....Some tuning of the ferrite rods inside the bifilar coils > gives this strange pictures.....completly non-linear..... > > FYI : The scope probes are connected across the two RLoad output ( at the > bifilar output) with the ground connected on common point, and the scope is > set in XY mode. > > Enjoy, > > Jean-Louis Naudin > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > [Image] Hi, Jean and all, These are fantastic pictures. Someones remember me the caduceous. The two snakes.... the Vimana mercury motors, Schauberger implosion motor, etc. Maybe this is the key for all... maybe all scientific community ignored the caduceous circuits because they thought a caduceous don't have any proof. Maybe one day this dream will be a reality. Vicente. -- Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga E-mail: vramos@ctv.es Home Page: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm Burriana (Castellon) SPAIN ------------------------------ Content-type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:28:55 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Free Energy List cc: John Schnurer Subject: Open question "Black box" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Industry at times has used persons as "Black Boxes" for the purposes of enabling technology transfer. The BB is a person trusted by both parties but who does not stand to gain. In the old west sometimes a doctor or a bartender was the black box and would hold a bet. I am looking to see who would be a good black box for the gravity work. I would use Richard Feynman ... if he were alive and he would come. In this case the need for the black box arises from a basic property of the gravity work to date; even though I admit I do not know exactly the mechanism ... it is VERY simple to do. One look from a technical person of moderate background and the reproduction is easy. Any ideas? Thanks, John -------------------------------- --zIc185G7eO7vpfl1kvRvV8wuAGVdiCm3-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 20 23:50:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA25261; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 23:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 23:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3424D317.646C@mediacity.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 23:56:07 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: stk@sunherald.infi.net CC: protieus@aol.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Only the 'now' exists. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fETQI1.0.cA6.eAC9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/826 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Kyle, That's right. Time travel not only is not possible. It doesn't mean anything. There are as many 'time' systems as there are particles, bodies, stars, etc. in the cosmos. But they are all relative, and there is no absolute time. Einstein didn't have a clue. 'Time' is simply the measure of the period of any rotating entity (and all entities rotate). Superluminal travel and communication is real. Nature is just as superluminal as it is luminal and subluminal. [Protieus, or anyone, -- You might want to request a copy of my paper "Life Without Spacetime" -- which is focused on the physical nature of the cosmos, and its superluminal structures. If so, I will need your snailmail address.] Millennium From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 00:37:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA27749; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 00:36:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 00:36:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709210736.AAA17067@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "vortex" , "Free Energy" Subject: Fw: gyro torque converters Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 00:43:36 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eRAb53.0.Mn6.DwC9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/827 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Brilliant Physicists of the Lists, Here is a question that has been puzzling me and I can't seem to get a clear answer out of the books on gyromechanics. Is there somebody out there that can help? [Orignally posted privately] > > OK, you have a gyro with angular momentum H. Normally, if for instance you > > have a top, gravity provides a torque that causes the top to precess with > > velocity Vp. > > If, on the other hand you make the gyro precess at Vp you get a torque at > > right angles to the force. The equation is > > > > T = HVp > > > > Now what I'm thinking is this. The angular momentum H is due to energy > > stored in the gyro disc. this energy can be extracted at any point by > > making the motor that drives the disc a generator instead. This is how flywheels work. Lets say > > ideally it can be done with 100% eficiency and there are no frictional > > losses in the gyro disc (this last part can be approached in practice). > So > > THEORETICALLY there are no inherent energy costs in creating any particular H. > > The H is caused by stored energy rather than dissipated energy. > > > > Obviously output torque has a relationship to output energy (I've > forgotten the exact equation at the moment, but it is some linear relation based on > > the torque and the torque arm). The torque equation above implies that > any desired torque (energy output) can be gotten with any specific > > forced-precessional velocity by adjusting the H to match. But we have > > already established that H is based on stored energy and not on dissipated > > energy, so that means that a gyro can generate any output energy desired > > from any input energy, since we can write the energy used to create H out > > of the energy equation! Of course, theoretically... > > > > The catch of course is Vp. Of course it takes energy to turn the gyro > > along its precessional axis, but the question is, and this what I am > asking, does the energy required to turn the gyro around its precessional > axis > > INCREASE as the H of the gyro rotor increases, or does it STAY THE SAME? > > > > If it increases then this where my idea falls flat-- but intuitively I > > don't see how it COULD increase, because the moment of inertia ALONG THE > > PRECESSION AXIS has not increased because of increased spin and inertial > > moment along the ROTOR axis, or at least I don't THINK it has.. > > > > Do you know? Or have I even made it clear what I am asking? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Fred > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 00:43:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA28458; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 00:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 00:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709210742.AAA17184@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "vortex" , "Free Energy" Subject: Fw: Dean Drive Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 00:50:24 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ersit2.0.Oy6.30D9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/828 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------- > From: Fred Epps > To: fred epps > Subject: Fw: Dean Drive > Date: Saturday, September 20, 1997 3:05 PM > > > > ---------- > > Date: Saturday, September 20, 1997 02:06:40 > > From: fepps > > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > > Subject: Re: Dean Drive > > > > Hi Rick and all! > > > > > > > But I still feel like I've mis-communicated here. Let me just state > > clearly > > > that I think it is absolutely NOT possible that any system using > classical > > > mechanics could produce an unbalanced or reactionless thrust. That's not > > to > > > say that something *else* might not come along, nor does it rule out > that > > > the effects of such might indeed appear from amidst rotating or gyrating > > > objects under some special circumstances. But rotating, oscillating, > > > gyrating gizmos, by classical mechanics will never work, IMO. > > > , > > > I just wanted a simple irrefutable test/knife to cut away those gizmos > > > which are claimed by some to produce thrust but in fact do not work, > such > > > as the Dean drive and many related devices. > > > > I recommend looking at the Thornson drive as an actual device completely > > different from the Dean drive rather than burying it in an abstraction > > called "many related devices". The Thornson drive was observed to work by > > qualified observers and the classic test was applied-- suspension from a > > string with a consistent one-way deviation. It seems like an instance of > > "goal-post moving" to say that this is no longer a test when for many > years > > I heard it expressed that this was precisly the test that would disqualify > > the Dean drive and "related devices". > > Even if such an effect can be duplicated by a gyroscopic assembly acting > > against the CG, it must be remembered that this drive is simple and can be > > seen not to contain such a gyroscope. And IF the gyroscopic device as > > described would create such a lateral force, it could be used as a prime > > mover for ground transportation, and I have some (not yet clearly > > articulated) questions about the conservation laws in such a case... AND > > any theory of gyroscopic behavior must satisfactorily explain the famous > > picture of E.R. Laithwaite holding up a long rod with with a heavy > > precessing gyro on one end-- with one finger! According to the standard > > view the gravitational countertorque must be applied to his finger, yet it > > is not. > > Interestingly the Newtonian equations of motion for the Thornson drive > were > > simulated on a computer by some grad students associated with Valone and > > the simulation showed the same behavior as the actual device-- a > > preponderance of force on one side! These results were reported in the > > IECEC proceedings, sorry I don't have the ref with me here at work. > > The Woodward patent which was recently discussed on the list is similar to > > this patent except that the mass is added to one side of the rotation > > electromagnetically rather than mechanically. I guess that makes it more > > legitimate, based on your "something else" exception. > > I think it must be pointed out yet again that there is no satisfactory > > explanation of inertial force within current physics. I am not so much > > making a case for the Thornson dirve as a working inertial drive (I have > no > > idea whether it actually works or not) but a case that the laws of > > classical mechanics contain unexplained terms which can lead to unusual > > results. > > > > As an aside, it is often said, and has been said again recently, that the > > mechanical perpetual motion machine is an absurd fiction. The historical > > record shows that the Bessel Wheel or Wheel of Orrefyeus (sp?) was > observed > > to operate completely independently of the inventor for 6 months by being > > locked in the King of England's personal vault. The observations were > > conducted by a notable scientist of the day-- Isaac Newton! > > This device appears to have been based on centrifugal force. It has > > recently been determined by studies of centrifugal force around black > holes > > that it must be considered a force in its own right and not simply an > > application of action-reaction to centripetal force. In the ancient > > controversy between Newton and Huygens over whether CF is a real force or > a > > ficticious force, Huygens has won! Newtonian mechanics is not an accurate > > picture of the universe even on its own level of application and the way > is > > still open for devices that use mechanical inertial effects to show > > anomalous effects. > > > > Fred > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 06:52:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA05921 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 06:52:57 -0700 Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 06:52:57 -0700 X-Envelope-From: emilio@ruralsp.com.br Sun Sep 21 06:52:55 1997 Received: from guaruja.ruralsp.com.br (root@[200.251.186.30]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA05834 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 06:51:32 -0700 Received: from spo1B.homeshopping.com.br (spo1B.homeshopping.com.br [200.246.92.44]) by guaruja.ruralsp.com.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA16259 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:50:47 -0300 Message-ID: <34255F54.68A1@ruralsp.com.br> Old-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:54:28 -0700 From: "Emilio T. da Silva Jr." X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel...?!? References: <970919021526_169983606@emout03.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: PROTIEUS@aol.com wrote: > > so this is for all those ASTRO-PHYSICISTS out there..do you think it is > possible to travel to the past or to the future.. please explain..or give > possible reasons with web sites available.. > > thank you Scotty, a student of astro-physics..and ITT student.. All ancient west filosofy states that time is "continuum",there's no "past" and "future" but only an infinity "present". In equations where "time" is present it looks more like a problem tham a solution. Time may have no meaning,unless to us and our watches and schedulers. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 06:54:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id GAA13082; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 06:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 06:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <342542E8.4B06@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:53:13 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M.Twain" CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. References: <3424D317.646C@mediacity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P5V6q3.0.HC3.dRI9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/829 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: M.Twain wrote: > > Kyle, > > That's right. Time travel not only is not possible. It doesn't mean > anything. There are as many 'time' systems as there are particles, > bodies, stars, etc. in the cosmos. But they are all relative, and there > is no absolute time. Einstein didn't have a clue. 'Time' is simply the > measure of the period of any rotating entity (and all entities rotate). That's right. Einstein even got the terminology wrong. My personal (works for me) terminology is: Relative relative time: Einsteinian time, where time can be changed Absolute absolute time: Time where all measurements are the same and time dilation is impossible. Absolute relative time: Time dilation is allowed, time travel is not. I personally think time dilation is just the effect speed/acceleration has on an object's rate of aging. > > Superluminal travel and communication is real. Nature is just as > superluminal as it is luminal and subluminal. Absolutely correct. In fact, Professor Gunther Nimitz in Germany built a device which HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY MAINSTREAM SCIENCE that transmits at 4.7 times the speed of light. The signal did not time travel. Raymond Chaio in the US tried this, and got it up to 1.69 times the speed of light. Mainstream science's explanation: The light was over toward the detector, not at the emmiter, so it just looked like it went FTL. And they said action at a distance was impossible. What the hell do they call this?!? Just another bit of proof that the mainstream scientists are confused. > > [Protieus, or anyone, -- You might want to request a copy of my paper > "Life Without Spacetime" -- which is focused on the physical nature of > the cosmos, and its superluminal structures. If so, I will need your > snailmail address.] I'd love a copy! Just send it to: Kyle R. Mcallister 12920 Hanover Dr. Ocean Springs MS 39564 United States From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 08:04:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA12558; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:03:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:03:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970921090004.00703ed0@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:00:04 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. In-Reply-To: <342542E8.4B06@sunherald.infi.net> References: <3424D317.646C@mediacity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"p0ZJT2.0.743.9TJ9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/830 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello Kyle, All... At 08:53 9/21/97 -0700, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: >Absolutely correct. In fact, Professor Gunther Nimitz in Germany built a >device which HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY MAINSTREAM SCIENCE that transmits at >4.7 times the speed of light. Please, where can I read more about Professor Nimitz's device? Best Regards, JD ------------------------------------------------------------ The beasts of the wild Will be led by a child And I will be changed from the thing that I am. -Nelson Algren E-mail to: mules@palacenet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 08:34:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA17026; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:34:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:34:12 -0700 Message-ID: <34254F0E.1143@mediacity.com> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:45:02 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mules@palacenet.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Superluminal Signal experiments Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uVt9j1.0.x94.ovJ9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/831 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jack, If you have access to a University Physics Libary then you can find several dozen very recent published articles on superluminal tunnelling in the solid state physics pubs. [Or hundreds of superluminal astrophysics pubs.] Or you can request a copy of my "Life Without Spacetime" which overviews the work of Nimitz, Chiao, Obolensky, Vigier, Ishii, Barnes and many others -- and lists 68 refs. Millennium [http://www.mediacity.com/~muse/abs.html] [http://www.mediacity.com/~muse/obolensky.html] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 09:29:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA25847; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:28:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:28:39 -0700 (PDT) From: drdaveor@mail.enter.net Message-Id: <199709211628.MAA25605@mail.enter.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is Organization: Enter.Net To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:02:36 4 Subject: Eugene Mallove talk Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Resent-Message-ID: <"_xlHR3.0.kJ6.qiK9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/832 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Howdy. Just thought you folks might be interested in this: "The Center For Frontier Sciences at Temple University is hosting a talk by Eugene Mallove, editor-in-chief of Infinite Energy Magazine, called "How we won the Cold Fusion War?". "The talk is scheduled for Tuesday, October 21, 1997 at the Kiva Auditorium, Ritter Annex, Temple University, Broad St. and Cecil B. Moore Avenue, Philadelphia, PA, 2:00 to 3:30pm and are free and open to the public. For more info. call (215)204-8487." These comments are paraphrased from the Center for Frontier Sciences letter that I received. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 11:18:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA07119; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:18:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:18:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199709211818.LAA13683@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "vortex" , "Jean-Louis Naudin" , "Free Energy" , Subject: Re: Fw: gyro torque converters, and time. Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:06:01 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vmFZl1.0.3l1.ZJM9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/833 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dave! > >Of course it takes energy to turn the gyro along its precessional > >axis, but the question is, and this what I am asking, does the energy > >required to turn the gyro around its precessional axis INCREASE as the > H of the gyro rotor increases, or does it STAY THE SAME? > >> > > >> > If it increases then this where my idea falls flat-- but > intuitively I don't see how it COULD increase, because the moment of > inertia ALONG > >THE > >> > PRECESSION AXIS has not increased because of increased spin and > >inertial > >> > moment along the ROTOR axis, or at least I don't THINK it has.. > >> > > >> > Do you know? Or have I even made it clear what I am asking? > >> > > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > Fred > >> > > > > > --INCREASES... Intuitively, yes it IS harder to make a 10,000 rpm > gyro precess than a 200 rpm one. Although, I haven't tested this. (Try > torquing a spinning bicycle wheel while it's spinning at 20 rpm vs 200 > rpm. Big difference!) > OK I'm holding the axles of a spinning bicycle wheel with a high velocity stretched out in front of me. I twist my hands so the gyro has a second spin at right angles to the first. What I experience is a strong torque IN THE THIRD DIRECTION, not against the direction of my twisting motion. It is because my arms resist that third torque MOVING OUTWARD--- not being designed for that many degrees of freedom :-) ---that I feel an opposing force. The torque I apply to my hands is not opposed directly along the same vector! Imagine that the torque applied to the precessional axis of the wheel is from a coupling with another degree of freedom, like a universal joint, and the situation becomes clearer. Or at least thats MY physical intuition. Thanks for the input, Dave. I sure wish I could see what you're saying in writing though, though maybe I just haven't dug deep enough. What I would like to see is for Jean-louis to test it out with his precessional platform-- Jean-louis, are you listening? Something for when you are bored with the TEP ;-) We would probably have to use a gear assembly to convert the output torque into usable power, but I know there's a mechanical torque test and then we can just apply the formula for Force F = T/d Force = Torque output/lever arm distance and the basic formula for work (I Guess--) W = Fs to get the work output, and then find out the work input of the precessional torquer. If, as I'm inclined to think, inertia is a real force exerted on every object by the mass of the universe opposing acceleration, (this is the view of Assis) then steady rotational acceleration (spin) affords the possibility of tapping that unbalanced force. The spin vector and the vector of inertial force are not the same, and forces applied along different vectors to an object do not oppose each other if the object is given enough degrees of freedom -- maybe why I weas thinking of a gyro rather than a disc. Spin relates to time as well, from my theory. I have previously defined the time rate as inversely proportional to the resistance of matter to energy or acceleration. To qoute the famous "psychoceramic" Alexander Abian, Time IS inertia. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 11:18:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA07432; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709211818.LAA13948@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" , Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:23:04 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Akebi2.0.-p1.ZJM9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/834 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------- > From: Kyle R. Mcallister > To: M.Twain > Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. > Date: Sunday, September 21, 1997 8:53 AM > > M.Twain wrote: > > > > Kyle, > > > > That's right. Time travel not only is not possible. It doesn't mean > > anything. There are as many 'time' systems as there are particles, > > bodies, stars, etc. in the cosmos. But they are all relative, and there > > is no absolute time. Einstein didn't have a clue. 'Time' is simply the > > measure of the period of any rotating entity (and all entities rotate). > > That's right. Einstein even got the terminology wrong. My personal > (works for me) terminology is: > > Relative relative time: Einsteinian time, where time can be changed > Absolute absolute time: Time where all measurements are the same and > time dilation is impossible. > Absolute relative time: Time dilation is allowed, time travel is not. I > personally think time dilation is just the effect speed/acceleration has > on an object's rate of aging. I ascribe to the last view. Time travel IS possible when consciousness is not fixated in a body, but for all physical purposes there is no time rate except for the rate of change of matter. This also called the "endochronic" view. > > > > > Superluminal travel and communication is real. Nature is just as > > superluminal as it is luminal and subluminal. AGREED > > Absolutely correct. In fact, Professor Gunther Nimitz in Germany built a > device which HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY MAINSTREAM SCIENCE that transmits at > 4.7 times the speed of light. The signal did not time travel. Yes, there have now been experiments with other forms of waves as well as tunneling experiments. The FTL velocity can be explained in Maxwellian terms. In no cases has time travel occurred. Causality was not violated, although there have been "multiple tunneling barrier" experiments proposed to test this. It will be interesting to see the results. The fact is that a signal can be sent through a wire at velocities of at least 100C with very simple equipment (Milne's paper in Radio electronics). Telegraphic studies of the velocity of signals gave sharply different values at different locations and these were often faster than light. These are referenced in Whittaker's History of Aether And Electricity (an essential book). I'm not sure, but I think inductances were placed in the oceanic telegraph cable to slow it down! I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 11:59:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA14988; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:59:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:59:19 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970921125512.00706c20@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:55:12 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. In-Reply-To: <199709211818.LAA13948@mail1.halcyon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lW4o22.0.5g3.6wM9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/835 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Fred, All... At 11:23 9/21/97 -0700, Fred wrote: >I'm not sure, but I think inductances were placed in the oceanic telegraph >cable to slow it down! I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.. Heh! I'll try, Fred...;) Without the added inductance the cable looks like a big capacitor. It would take all day to send a Quick Brown Fox message. The Inductances would be added to make a pseudo lumped-constant line, of higher impedance, with the sections of cable serving as the capacitance. I remember reading about this in a terrific article contained in thin one of those thin magazines that Radio-Shack stores used to carry...probably in the '70's.... For the life of me I cannot recall the title of the magazine, but it usually featured at least one reprint of a historical technical article. I remember that inventions by Gray, Fessenden, and DeForest, were discussed. The story of the design and laying of the Trans-Atlantic cable was exceptional. Although written for youngsters, it's worth digging up a copy. I think I still have it around here...somewhere! Although, as always, I could be wrong. Best Regards, JD ------------------------------------------------------------ The beasts of the wild Will be led by a child And I will be changed from the thing that I am. -Nelson Algren E-mail to: mules@palacenet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 14:28:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA04893; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <342590C1.9C2@darknet.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:25:21 -0400 From: Steve Reply-To: darklord@darknet.net Organization: DarkNet Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: interesting site References: <3.0.32.19970919125338.00823b50@inforamp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7crd73.0.JC1.Y5P9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/836 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi everyone, I found this site, and it looks intersting.. I haven't looked through it yet, but it looks like it might have some cool stuff on it.. http://www.weburbia.com/pg/ ttyl -Steve -- Steve (aka DaRkLoRD) | darklord@darknet.net UIN: 2149500 | www.darknet.net/darklord DarkNet Technologies: http://www.darknet.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 14:41:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA11009; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:40:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:40:52 -0700 Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 15:46:53 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall Sender: ekwall2@november Reply-To: Steve Ekwall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970921125512.00706c20@palacenet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_K9BM.0.wh2.ZHP9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/837 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 21 Sep 1997, Jack DeMule wrote: -snip- >>At 11:23 9/21/97 -0700, Fred wrote: >>>I'm not sure, but I think inductances were placed in the oceanic telegraph >>>cable to slow it down! I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.. >>-snip- >>The story of the design and laying of the Trans-Atlantic cable >>was exceptional. Although written for youngsters, it's worth >>digging up a copy. I think I still have it around here...somewhere! >> >>JD -------------- Small World, I have an 11" piece of that ORIGINAL CABLE on a display shelf here at my office. (It has been replaced/added to a few times I hear).. Merrill-Stevens Dry Dock & Repair gave it to my father (for me) for his psychiatric help for Stevens' wife perpetual migrain headaches. As a thank you for her cure. They had it mounted on/through 2 wooden post and a base-plate. (I don't remember the date (none inscribed on plate) but I'm thinking late 50's to early 60's) If it was a left over section or actual part of the cable under water I don't know, but it was the first of it's type. It's 11" long and about 7/8+" outer diameter It has 16 twisted wires (all about 12 gauge in size) The very Center Cable looks like 12 gauge COPPER The remaining 15 are silvery looking (aluminum??) ------- These are covered by a woven xxxx cloth-like material that looks like it's covered with a black pitch or tar goo of some kind. ------- Doubt its long enough to 'test' any inductance (11") but if you can think of something to try on it, I'm game... (end to end that is, as a display piece I was hoping to not cut it open:) Best to you & yours. -=se=- steve ekwall2@diac.com sent Sun Sep 21 1997 15:38 MST From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 16:01:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA16007; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:00:25 +1000 Message-Id: <199709212300.JAA09171@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. Resent-Message-ID: <"oXgMe2.0.xv3.HSQ9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/838 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >I ascribe to the last view. Time travel IS possible when consciousness is >not fixated in a body, but for all physical purposes there is no time rate >except for the rate of change of matter. This also called the >"endochronic" view. > Which poses the question, rate of change in relation to what? There is a universal time flow, or "pressure", which gives rise to local effects in the presence of matter. Rotation is a compensatory mechanism related to gravity, not the cause. >Yes, there have now been experiments with other forms of waves as well as >tunneling experiments. The FTL velocity can be explained in Maxwellian >terms. In no cases has time travel occurred. Causality was not violated, >although there have been "multiple tunneling barrier" experiments proposed >to test this. It will be interesting to see the results. > In order to achieve time travel in the popular meaning of translocation, the traveller must be compressed into one dimension, and be recoverable as a finite entity. This partly applies to translation of electrons from the vaccum. This is not the same as time dilation, which, when invoked upon electrons, creates voltage potential. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 17:18:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA27763; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:18:14 -0700 (PDT) From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: B25B@LCIA.COM Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wally Minto Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:10:55 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <34207F22.2D02@LCIA.COM> Lines: 30 Resent-Message-ID: <"9Vwz4.0.in6.3bR9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/839 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > Hi folks: > Does anyone know what happened to Wally Minto? > I heard that he disappeared mysteriously. > > Ron Brennen ----------- [Note to Bill: George Elston asked me to forward to the list because replies to the DIGEST version of list return the message "you must be a list member to post to list".] From: George Elston The last I heard of Wallace Minto he was Pres. of KINETICS Inc. in Sarasota, Fla. [George had the phone number here, I've had bad experiences with phone numbers in messages, contact me via direct e-mail if you want it.] ----------- If any one does get a hold of Minto let us know what he's up to please... -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 17:35:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA14863; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:35:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:35:27 -0700 Message-ID: <3425BC66.E4528407@mail.idt.net> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:31:34 -0400 From: Josef Katz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. References: <199709212300.JAA09171@nornet.nor.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NMZPo1.0.7e3.DrR9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/840 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: While i was reading this particular thread, something occured to me. some of you are saying that there is no time, that time is only an illusion caused by the changes in space from instant to instant. or similar types of ideas. something about this view really bugs me. if there is no "time," than how do you define instant? what do you mean by "during a partincular instant"? if in the defanition of these terms, you can't use the word time. it seems to me that the idea that time does not exist is self contradictory. does anyone agree with me, or am i just spouting nonsense? -joey katz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 17:38:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA00807; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:38:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:38:11 -0700 (PDT) From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) Newsgroups: list.freenrg1 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Antimater Magnet Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:33:59 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: <3zbJ0UQy8M4M092yn@csonline.net> Lines: 34 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZGOsU1.0.TC.mtR9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/841 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I came across this in Siemens Components 3/97 magazine, thought you'd find of interest. "In quest of antimatter; Rare Earth Magnets: Vacuumschmelze GmbH (VAC), a wholly owned subsidiary of the Siemens Passive Components & Electron Tubes Group in Hanau, Germany, has recently fulfilled an unusual order from ETH Zu''rich for permanent magnets made of Vacodym [Trade Mark] 510 HR material and weighing 2.5 tons. A dipole magnet 80 cm long and 150 cm in diameter is manufactured from some 500 rectangular magnets measuring 50 x 50 x 25 mm. It forms the heart of a particle detector known as the Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer (AMS). The AMS will be used for research into particle radiation from outer space. A special objective here is to prove the existence of antimatter. As the experiment will be preformed on board a space station (photo [Looks like NASA concept photo to me]), the magnetic fields required can be generated only with particularly strong permanent magnets. Not surprisingly, ETH Zu''rich decided to order the rare earth magnets from VAC in Hanau. The Vacodym 510 HR neodymium-iron-boron magnet grade is currently the strongest permanent magnet material manufactured worldwide on an industrial scale. At a remanence of 1.41 T, a maximum energy density of 48 MGOe (385 kJ/m^3) is achieved." -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 17:50:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA02527; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:49:55 -0700 (PDT) From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Re: The Scalar Waves Transmitter V1.0 Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:40:05 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <199709150914.CAA02860@mail1.halcyon.com> In-Reply-To: <199709150914.CAA02860@mail1.halcyon.com> Lines: 27 Resent-Message-ID: <"UIxKr.0.Jd.l2S9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/842 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >That's interesting! Does Minto have a patent? Do you have patent numbers >for the Rogers patents?... 958,829 May. 24, 1910 1,220,005 Mar. 20, 1917 1,303,729 May. 19, 1919 1,303,730 May. 13, 1919 1,315,862 Sept. 9, 1919 1,316,188 Sept. 16, 1919 1,322,622 Nov. 25, 1919 1,349,103 Aug. 10, 1920 1,349,104 Aug. 10, 1920 1,395,454 Nov. 1, 1921 1,510,799 Oct. 7, 1924 For detailed instructions so "America's greatest war invention: The Rogers underground wireless." Electrical Experimenter. Mar, 1919. P. 787-789, 832-835, 839. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 18:52:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA08267; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 18:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 18:50:46 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970921214753_1097094428@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnetic diode invented ????? Resent-Message-ID: <"vZroQ.0.412.qxS9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/843 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: For your info. I found in my email a post from this guy (that I don't know) that says he has invented a generator that has no counter torque due to a magnetic diode. He said that the Department Of Energy is conducting tests at this time. He is from Tampa, Fla. and in the original post went into much detail but I lost all data on my hard drive when it died last week and this is all he would tell me when I asked for info. when I got my new hard drive. Here is what he sent me. This web site should be interesting (if it does in fact come about). Thanks, Butch LaFonte Steve, > I lost everything on my hard drive when it crashed (broke for > good). > Could you please send me a copy of the first post you sent me that > told about > your invention and the company, web site , testing , ect. > Thanks, Butch LaFonte > HLafonte@aol.com Things are constantly changing in the business aspects but that area is being handled by my partners and web site they are setting up should be operational by next week the address is www.omnidyne.com. The invention is an electrical generation device which lacks the counter torque of today's designs. Some minor flux leakage creating some minor counter torque but this is negligible compared to today's generator designs It is anologous to a diode in that there is high permability in one direction and low in the other. The details will not be released as manufactures we are negotiating with wish to keep it quiet until they release there products based on the concept.. >End From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 22:11:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA02332; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:10:38 -0700 (PDT) From: MFergerson@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:10:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970922010959_-1900523158@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. Resent-Message-ID: <"SG1J.0.Ka.BtV9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/844 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: P. Nielsen (in re the simple [snicker] concept of time) writes: >Which poses the question, rate of change in relation to what? There is a >universal time flow, or "pressure", which gives rise to local effects in the >presence of matter. Rotation is a compensatory mechanism related to gravity, >not the cause. I've come to the conclusion that for composite objects (stars, galaxies, protons, my body) the idea of 'consensus reality' makes more intuitive sense than 'absolute time' in that all the component parts of a complex object have their quantum states 'in phase' so to speak, thus they can perceive each other in a 'relativistic' fashion- i.e. in accordance with the commonly accepted rules of mainstream science. Thus any change in state of any of the parts of an object is reflected in an alteration of the energy of the total system, as in neutron decay producing particles with correlatable momenta. When I think about so-called 'elementary' particles, such as electrons, I have trouble with the preceding ideas unless they are considered composite themselves. But, as we know, noone has seen any unambiguous evidence for structure in the @#$% things. Spin may give me a way out of that jam, by implying something to have the angular momentum electrons are known to have. Personally, I've always had a problem believing a zero-dimensional object can have 'angular' momentum. In all texts I've ever seen, for angular momentum to exist, so must a 'moment arm', or some lateral extension of the object in question. As far as rotation existing to compensate for gravity, exactly what do you mean by that? >In order to achieve time travel in the popular meaning of translocation, the >traveller must be compressed into one dimension, and be recoverable as a >finite entity. This partly applies to translation of electrons from the >vaccum. This is not the same as time dilation, which, when invoked upon >electrons, creates voltage potential. Your first sentence makes sense in terms of Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction, except that I think 'compressed into one dimension' should read 'projected into three-space as one-dimensional'. I'm still convinced (with no particular evidence) that 'three-D' matter is probably at least seven-dimensional (to account for force fields not visible over long distances) and L-F effects are due to the rotation of an object's 'self-space' in relation to the rest of the universe. 'Time dilation' similarly involves an object's 'self-time' axis rotating in relation to a non-moving observer. Your third sentence sounds suspiciously like relativistic mass increase : ) Basically I have to agree with the general drift of this thread, time travel (as in H. G. Wells) just ain't possible- the past isn't there any more, and the future isn't there yet. Face it- Dirac's question about aliens applies to time travelers as well- if they exist, where are they? Still thinking, Mark From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 21 23:45:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA09918; Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19970922064453.7170.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.24.196.40] From: "" To: fepps@halcyon.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, JNaudin509@aol.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, davelook@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Fw: gyro torque converters, and time. Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:44:52 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"Bb9T.0.tQ2.6GX9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/845 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Hi Dave! > >> >Of course it takes energy to turn the gyro along its precessional >> >axis, but the question is, and this what I am asking, does the energy >> >required to turn the gyro around its precessional axis INCREASE as the >> H of the gyro rotor increases, or does it STAY THE SAME? >> >> > >> >> > If it increases then this where my idea falls flat-- but >> intuitively I don't see how it COULD increase, because the moment of >> inertia ALONG >> >THE >> >> > PRECESSION AXIS has not increased because of increased spin and >> >inertial >> >> > moment along the ROTOR axis, or at least I don't THINK it has.. >> >> > >> >> > Do you know? Or have I even made it clear what I am asking? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Thanks, >> >> > Fred >> >> >> > >> > >> --INCREASES... Intuitively, yes it IS harder to make a 10,000 rpm gyro precess than a 200 rpm one. Although, I haven't tested this. (Try torquing a spinning bicycle wheel while it's spinning at 20 rpm vs 200 rpm. Big difference!) >> >OK I'm holding the axles of a spinning bicycle wheel with a high velocity stretched out in front of me. I twist my hands so the gyro has a second spin at right angles to the first. What I experience is a strong torque IN THE THIRD DIRECTION, not against the direction of my twisting motion. It is because my arms resist that third torque MOVING OUTWARD--- not being designed for that many degrees of freedom :-) ---that I feel an opposing force. The torque I apply to my hands is not opposed directly along the same vector! Imagine that the torque applied to the precessional axis of >the wheel is from a coupling with another degree of freedom, like a >universal joint, and the situation becomes clearer. Or at least thats MY physical intuition. > >Thanks for the input, Dave. I sure wish I could see what you're saying in writing though, though maybe I just haven't dug deep enough. ----Sorry Fred, now I clearly see what you mean. OK, I think that if you tried to get work out of that 3rd axis torque, it would just be that much harder to torque the 2nd axis, but I'm not sure. It shouldn't be too hard to test with two weights and some string. The lighter weight to provide the 2nd axis torque and a slightly heavier one to be "pulled up". Of course, one of the weights will have to pull horizontally, so just droop that string over a low friction point away from the axis so that weight also hangs down. -- Dave L. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 00:14:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA10090; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:14:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:14:36 -0700 Message-ID: <19970922071402.25904.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.24.196.40] From: "" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:14:01 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"rijvR2.0.ZT2.RhX9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/846 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Does anyone know about Tesla's "Torque Amplifier" which uses gravity to increase the torque? Dennis Lee had a video of it operating at one of his shows. Also, any new developments with the amazing GIT?(Gyroscopic Inertial Thruster). Couldn't that be scaled up to tap gravity? I mean, if you can get a 100 lb. object up to 50 ft using only gravity, shouldn't you be able to tap the fall somehow? ---Dave L. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 00:32:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA13024; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:31:35 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: photo copies Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 07:31:01 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <342617c3.17855669@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <199709212300.JAA09171@nornet.nor.com.au> In-Reply-To: <199709212300.JAA09171@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VuGHl1.0.OB3.LxX9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/847 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Peter, Your photo copies still haven't arrived. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 00:56:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA14436; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19970922075532.1154.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.24.196.40] From: "" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:55:32 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"52ehg3.0.RX3.LIY9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/848 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >>I ascribe to the last view. Time travel IS possible when consciousness is >>not fixated in a body, but for all physical purposes there is no time rate >>except for the rate of change of matter. This also called the >>"endochronic" view. >> > >Which poses the question, rate of change in relation to what? There is a universal time flow, or "pressure", which gives rise to local effects in the presence of matter. The "universal pressure" is probably related to c, the speed at which electrons(and light) move. Dave L. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 01:04:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA14813; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:03:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:03:48 -0700 Message-ID: <19970922080314.18490.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.24.196.40] From: "" To: joeyk19@idt.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:03:11 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"vyQAo2.0.Md3.ZPY9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/849 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >While i was reading this particular thread, something occured to me. >some of you are saying that there is no time, that time is only an >illusion caused by the changes in space from instant to instant. or >similar types of ideas. something about this view really bugs me. if >there is no "time," than how do you define instant? what do you mean by >"during a partincular instant"? if in the defanition of these terms, you >can't use the word time. it seems to me that the idea that time does not >exist is self contradictory. does anyone agree with me, or am i just >spouting nonsense? > >-joey katz > I think they mean (and I would agree) that time has no objective (physical) existence, it is simply a relation between moving objects. When(can I use that word?:-)) an object moves, we compare that movement to other established movements. TIME doesn't exist, moving spatial relationships do. Dave L. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 01:17:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA16248; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:16:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:16:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199709220816.BAA15861@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "vortex" , "Free Energy" , "Robin van Spaandonk" Subject: Re: Fw: gyro torque converters, and time. Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:24:16 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"B2Jf-.0.nz3.jbY9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/850 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Robin, > Fred, > > I think the answer to your conundrum may be as follows. Imagine for a > moment that you try to extract energy from the torque. In so doing the > energy extraction device will by Newton's third law, generate a > counter force against the giro. This force in turn will also result in > precession of the giro (i.e. movement at right angles to the direction > of the torque change, or energy extraction direction). This resultant > precession will if am not mistaken, directly oppose the initial > precession that generated the torque. Consequently extracted energy > will be at a direct cost to precessional energy supplied. > Yes it is clear that the countertorque of the load produces a "counter-precession". If more mass is added to the load the input torque must increase proportionately to maintain the same output torque. But there's still something that bothers me about it. Picture this situation: Here is our gyro torque converter rotating a load at a certain rate, due to a certain precessional force maintained at the input. The gyro spin is steady state. Now spin the gyro faster. What happens to the system? Does everything stay the same, same torque on the output load, same input torque on precessional axis? The implication of what you're saying seems to be that the gyro's rate of spin has no effect on the energy transfer between input and output, which is contradicted by the simple fact that NOTHING happens when the gyro is not spinning at all... It still appears to me that if the load is increased AND the gyro spin rate is increased simultaneously and proportionately there will be no more countertorque on the input. T = HVp And the gyro spin energy is theoretically available for further use.. I hope I'm not sounding obstinate but I would like to put this nagging idea to rest one way or the other.. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 01:32:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id BAA16520; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709220831.BAA27656@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:31:24 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Us9-N.0.124.epY9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/851 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dave and all, > >Which poses the question, rate of change in relation to what? There is > a universal time flow, or "pressure", which gives rise to local effects > in the presence of matter. > > The "universal pressure" is probably related to c, the speed at which > electrons(and light) move. My hypothesis would be that C is what it is because of the time rate defined by the inertial mass of the universe. Any system has a resonant frequency based on its internal electromagnetic and physical inertia (recognizing that these quantities must be related in a deep way). C is related to the resonant frequency of the universe. I believe that this is a fairly orthodox view, presented in an unusual way. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 01:32:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id BAA16553; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709220831.BAA15977@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "vortex" , , "Jean-Louis Naudin" Subject: Re: Fw: gyro torque converters, and time. Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:39:11 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GEzT32.0.T24.kpY9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/852 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dave and all! > >> --INCREASES... Intuitively, yes it IS harder to make a 10,000 rpm > gyro precess than a 200 rpm one. Although, I haven't tested this. (Try > torquing a spinning bicycle wheel while it's spinning at 20 rpm vs 200 > rpm. Big difference!) > >> > >OK I'm holding the axles of a spinning bicycle wheel with a high > velocity stretched out in front of me. I twist my hands so the gyro has > a second spin at right angles to the first. What I experience is a > strong torque IN THE THIRD DIRECTION, not against the direction of my > twisting motion. It is because my arms resist that third torque MOVING > OUTWARD--- not being designed for that many degrees of freedom :-) > ---that I feel an opposing force. The torque I apply to my hands is not > opposed directly along the same vector! Imagine that the torque applied > to the precessional axis of > >the wheel is from a coupling with another degree of freedom, like a > >universal joint, and the situation becomes clearer. Or at least thats > MY physical intuition. > > > >Thanks for the input, Dave. I sure wish I could see what you're saying > in writing though, though maybe I just haven't dug deep enough. > > ----Sorry Fred, now I clearly see what you mean. OK, I think that if > you tried to get work out of that 3rd axis torque, it would just be that > much harder to torque the 2nd axis, but I'm not sure. This is true, never had any argument about that.. but see the reply I just wrote to Robin about this matter. The fact that the input power increases proportionately to the loading of the output is not in doubt. But the gyro spin rate is part of that conversion formula. If you increase the load AND increase the gyro rate at the same time, wouldn't you eliminate the effect of the increased load on the input, because of T = HVp ? And isn't the energy that causes H still available, not having been acted upon by any of the other torques? It shouldn't be > too hard to test with two weights and some string. > The lighter weight to provide the 2nd axis torque and a slightly heavier > one to be "pulled up". Of course, one of the weights will have to pull > horizontally, so just droop that string over a low friction > point away from the axis so that weight also hangs down. > I'm having a hard time imagining how this test relates to the rotating situation... maybe it does, I just can't picture it. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 10:31:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA21595; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:30:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:30:00 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCC742.D7ADECC0.reed@zenergy.com> From: Reed Huish Reply-To: "reed@zenergy.com" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Bearden Dead? Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:31:22 -0700 Organization: Zenergy Corporation X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"82DcR.0.JH5.Nig9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/853 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bad news travels fast and I heard a rumor that Tom Bearden passed away last night? Can anyone confirm? - Reed -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Reed Huish Zenergy Corporation 390 South Robins Way, Chandler, AZ 85225-6440 602.814.7865, fax 602.821.0967, inet http://zenergy.com, email reed@zenergy.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 13:00:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA22053; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:59:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:59:17 -0700 From: Jiyani@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970922155215_1030182730@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: photo copies Resent-Message-ID: <"2sJSv2.0.IO5.Hui9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/854 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ADDRESSEE UNKNOWN? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 15:01:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA15654; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:00:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:00:58 -0700 Message-ID: <3426E9A8.8AE4FA82@mail.idt.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:56:56 -0400 From: Josef Katz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. References: <19970922080314.18490.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"g4CM_2.0.Tq3.Ogk9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/855 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: You wrote: >I think they mean (and I would agree) that time has no objective >(physical) existence, it is simply a relation between moving objects. >When(can I use that word?:-)) an object moves, we compare that movement >to other established movements. TIME doesn't exist, moving spatial >relationships do. > Dave L. fine, then define movement, and speed. remember, you can't say speed is the rate of motion because that implies time. -joey katz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 15:45:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA27526; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:44:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:44:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199709222244.PAA05455@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:01:19 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Nfl_R3.0.fj6.PJl9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/857 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Joey, > >While i was reading this particular thread, something occured to me. > >some of you are saying that there is no time, that time is only an > >illusion caused by the changes in space from instant to instant. or > >similar types of ideas. something about this view really bugs me. if > >there is no "time," than how do you define instant? what do you mean by > >"during a partincular instant"? if in the defanition of these terms, > you > >can't use the word time. it seems to me that the idea that time does > not > >exist is self contradictory. does anyone agree with me, or am i just > >spouting nonsense? Not at all, its a very good point. I've given it some thought. It is my view that An Instant = time constant of a resonant system= 1/inertia. An INSTANT in any system is one period of the maximum frequency achievable in the system, based on its inertial characteristics. It sets an upper limit to what is observable within the system (C in our time system). It is not necessary to think of this period as a movement along a space-like line, which is where time conceptualiziations usually begin. You can quantize time as an infinite counting set of beats within a particular oscillator (clock). You can then think of a basic "nontemporal" measurement of time in terms of making a one-to one correspondence between the infinite counting set of beats in the reference oscillator and the infinite counting set in the system under measurement. The time systems are considered to be identical if there is a one to one correspondence between each member of the two infinite set of beats ("instants"). The key is that the electromagnetic and physical inertia of the system, based on its mass, is inversley proportional to the time flow. If the inertial resonant frequency of a system is changing then the one-to-one correspondence between beats breaks down and we must say that the two are not temporally equivalent. This is why I have predicted anomalous time/energy effects where the time constant is changing (parametric systems, accelerating discs, etc.) > > > I think they mean (and I would agree) that time has no objective > (physical) existence, it is simply a relation between moving objects. > When(can I use that word?:-)) an object moves, we compare that movement > to other established movements. TIME doesn't exist, moving spatial > relationships do. the key is "compare to other established movements". There is no "preferred reference frame" for time. [except maybe in terms of the basic "beat frequency of physical reality" which should be describable in terms of a frequency in our time counting system. It would correspond to the time constant of an LC circuit where L = permeability of free space and C = permittivity of free space. Sorry, I don't have my calculator and references handy so I can't tell you what it is... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 15:45:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA27576; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:44:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:44:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199709222244.PAA09843@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:51:26 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Z4Gd41.0.Rk6.YJl9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/858 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > Does anyone know about Tesla's "Torque Amplifier" which uses gravity > to increase the torque? Dennis Lee had a video of it operating at one of > his shows. Dave, do you have any other material on this.. I don't really want to buy the promotional video. > > Also, any new developments with the amazing GIT?(Gyroscopic Inertial > Thruster). Couldn't that be scaled up to tap gravity? > I mean, if you can get a 100 lb. object up to 50 ft using only > gravity, shouldn't you be able to tap the fall somehow? > I'll have another look at that, it seems to me that it had rotation in two directions simultaneously which is similar to the gyro thing I've been asking about. I am studying vector analysis now in my off hours to understand the basic physics behind all of these things. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 15:45:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA27483; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:44:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:44:40 -0700 Message-Id: <199709222244.PAA11348@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "vortex" , "Free Energy" , Subject: Re: Suggest AE Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:27:14 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UUZ6N3.0.Dj6.MJl9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/856 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > Jed's suggestion of a new nomenclature is appropriate and might save a lot > of quibbling. Let me suggest another : Anomalous Energy.. >From now on I will call it Anomalous Energy (AE), except when we are rallying the troops and we like that old battle cry-- overunity :-) We don't know if it is > really unknown (the skeptics are sure that a conventional one is hiding > there someplace) and if it's unknown, we don't know if it's infinite. The agnostic position is best on ultimate truths. I would go even farther: we don't know that it is an energy, and we don't know if there is only one Anomalous Energy. > > The essence of our quest is an energy source that does not use fossil fuel, > is safe, modular, portable, effectively inexhaustible and scaleable to any > reasonable extent. A precise statement of my goal. It at present is seen only as a persistent anomaly in > certain experiments and devices. Under the broad tent of anomalous energy > we can all live, and if some process is well enough characterized we can > give it a new name and send it out into the world while we puzzle over the > remaining anomalies. I like. Chris Tinsley said in a recent post: I could apply logic to this one, but will restrain myself and say that C of E is an axiom. You just rewrite it as you go along and find things that break the original definition. I believe this is true and it makes C of E meaningless. There are always going to be class of phenomena that appear to violate C of E, no matter how many new energy sources we create to "explain" things. The universe is alive, infinite and ultimately incomprehensible-- means there's always more to know :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 17:06:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA04369; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970922175606.0069e160@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:56:06 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. In-Reply-To: <199709222244.PAA05455@mail1.halcyon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"7miH93.0.841.qQm9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/859 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All... I've been following this thread, and have to admit you're confusing me, which at times isn't difficult. I've reread Minkowski's address on Space and Time, and wonder if anyone can address this point as it bears on this discussion. In Minkowski's geometry he states that observers may disagree on measurements of the time and space separating two events. However they will agree on the "interval" between these events. Since the "interval" is a spatio-temporal relationship, obtained by each observer combining their time and space measurements in a certain way. He also showed that "interval" is analogous in it's expression, to the expression of length. So we may consider the "interval" to be a the measurement of length in the fourth-dimensional continuum. According to this geometry, a critical velocity _must_ exist. Except for a few experiments, that yield data so buried in the noise that the results are statistical phantasma. The experimental data that I've seen seems to support this assertion. Best Regards, JD ------------------------------------------------------------ Read not to contradict and confute, nor believe and take for granted...but to weight and consider. -Bacon mules@palacenet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 17:08:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA05811; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34270731.B5ADC1DC@mail.idt.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:02:57 -0400 From: Josef Katz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. References: <199709222244.PAA05455@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6Y9YM1.0.bQ1.yWm9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/860 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: this is an except of what you wrote, fred. >[except maybe in terms of the basic "beat frequency of physical reality" >which should be describable in terms of a frequency in our time counting >system. fine, define frequency. since it seems to me that you are using frequency to define time, you have to define frequency without using time. or define periodic oscalator, etc... -joey katz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 17:10:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA12911; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:10:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:10:01 -0700 Message-ID: <342707E7.5BC482D1@mail.idt.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:05:59 -0400 From: Josef Katz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! References: <199709222244.PAA09843@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0XY1q1.0.a93.OZm9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/861 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: oh, quick comment about the GIT. (especially for you fred :-) if you look at the section of the website called "ongoing expirament" the system it describes, which may have overunity possibilities, seems to me to be one of those parametric type things. -joey katz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 19:10:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA25391; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34274C52.5F84@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:57:54 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. References: <19970922080314.18490.qmail@hotmail.com> <3426E9A8.8AE4FA82@mail.idt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jClte.0.dC6.6Jo9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/862 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Josef Katz wrote: > > You wrote: > > >I think they mean (and I would agree) that time has no objective > >(physical) existence, it is simply a relation between moving objects. > >When(can I use that word?:-)) an object moves, we compare that movement > >to other established movements. TIME doesn't exist, moving spatial > >relationships do. > > Dave L. > > fine, then define movement, and speed. remember, you can't say speed is > the rate of motion because that implies time. > > -joey katz If time does not exist, why does it appear to be quantafied like charge? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 19:48:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA01088; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34272CE0.EA5D22F2@mail.idt.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:43:44 -0400 From: Josef Katz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. References: <19970922080314.18490.qmail@hotmail.com> <3426E9A8.8AE4FA82@mail.idt.net> <34274C52.5F84@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"J4H9v.0.vG.cto9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/863 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: you wrote: (bob) >If time does not exist, why does it appear to be quantafied like charge? Exactly my point! -joey katz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 21:43:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA18153; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:38:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:38:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34275FD8.18DD@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:21:12 -0700 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Japanese Antigrav? References: <19970922080314.18490.qmail@hotmail.com> <3426E9A8.8AE4FA82@mail.idt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ynakm.0.TR4.mUq9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/864 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Folks! Just got the copy of the Japanese Antigravity report from the London Telegraph...check out; http://www.keelynet.com/index.htm seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 22 23:00:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA21055; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:00:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:00:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199709230600.XAA05234@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:34:22 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"i5r8T2.0.t85.6ir9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/865 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Josef, > this is an except of what you wrote, fred. > > >[except maybe in terms of the basic "beat frequency of physical reality" > >which should be describable in terms of a frequency in our time counting > >system. > > fine, define frequency. since it seems to me that you are using > frequency to define time, you have to define frequency without using > time. or define periodic oscalator, etc... > Yes, I did refer to frequency in the last part but I had already defined a time measurement that did not include frequency or any particular "rate" of time. It is primal measurement involving the counting of beats of an arbitrary undefined frequency. Only the infinite set of counting numbers is involved. Imagine a measuring system without time. It cannot remember how much time has passed between two beats. It allows you to fulfill the definition of time without using time. If it is electronic, all it does is increase a register by one digit when an input reaches a certain value. It is up for question whether such a system still has memory-- only one number exists. All other values are assigned a zero and do not "count". We attach it to a black box which has an energy output. The register can do one of two things, it can stay on zero or it can go to one. If it goes to one it is said that time has passed. Number defines time. Sorry, my thinking is stuck there. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 00:46:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA02650; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:46:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:46:20 -0700 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:46:06 +1000 Message-Id: <199709230746.RAA14359@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. Resent-Message-ID: <"AMRHI2.0.Hf.BFt9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/866 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Personally, I've always had a >problem believing a zero-dimensional object can have 'angular' momentum. In >all texts I've ever seen, for angular momentum to exist, so must a 'moment >arm', or some lateral extension of the object in question. > Another casualty of the school system. There are no zeros in nature. And, anyway, this cannot be visualized in three dimensions. Have a read of the "Notes and Reference" re: Fogel Transistors by Tom Bearden. You can find it at the Horizon Technologies website. This is about as simple as it gets for describing vectors ... oops, sorry, "hidden dynamics", infolded into scalars. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to bring in Phi ratio nesting, the missing link. All this deserves _alot_ more discussion, but I am unable to devote more time to terminology, per se. If anyone wants to talk models, I'm all ears. TEP researchers note, this same paper also discusses the broken symmetry created by a magnetic dipole that acts as a gate for vacuum fluctuations. All you need is the proper harmonic relationship. Go team. > As far as rotation existing to compensate for gravity, exactly what do you >mean by that? > A mass develops its own time intensity to overcome the intensity of a gravitational field by changing its velocity and direction of motion. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 05:45:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA29953; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 05:44:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 05:44:43 -0700 From: chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com Message-Id: <199709231244.IAA11016@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 08:23:32 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <199709222244.PAA11348@mail1.halcyon.com> Cc: "Fred Epps" Subject: Re: Suggest AE X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.30a (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"SBP1Q3.0.uJ7.vcx9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/867 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In <199709222244.PAA11348@mail1.halcyon.com>, on 09/22/97 at 02:27 PM, "Fred Epps" said: > The universe is alive, infinite and ultimately incomprehensible-- > means there's always more to know :-) If mainstream science could keep that bit of wisdom in mind then maybe they would make some major advancements. We're nearing the century mark for relativity, and while it may not be neccessarily correct, it did open up minds and allowed for new discoveries. Unfortunately I think we have stagnated since then, in regards to our understanding of the nature of our universe. There are some exceptional 'thinkers' here and it would not surprise me if the next great discovery is somehow connected to dialogs from this list. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 10:28:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA09044; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:26:06 -0700 (PDT) From: chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com Message-Id: <199709231724.NAA03561@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 12:33:55 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3426E9A8.8AE4FA82@mail.idt.net> Subject: Time (was Re: Only the 'now' exists.) X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.30a (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"ih4dK1.0.8D2.fk_9q"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/868 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In <3426E9A8.8AE4FA82@mail.idt.net>, on 09/22/97 at 05:56 PM, Josef Katz said: It is most difficult to explain the concept of time without using words that imply a passage of time. Whether or not 'time' has any physical basis is not important since we have ways to 'measure' 'it'. I do not believe time to be fundamental part of nature, but more a convenient way to identify a particulae state of out reality. Just becuse you can repeatedly drop a ball from a certain height and start counting electrons being emmitted from cesium, and at the point the balls touches the ground the same number of electrons are counted does not make time a physical reality. Fred uses the term 'instant', I prefer to use 'instance'. All in all it is basically the same. First off, I do not believe that space is infinately divisable, but instead has a granularity on the order of 10 E-33 to 10E-38 cm or so. Second, I do not neccessarily believe that we are continuosly in existance, but instead share 'space' with other systems/ dimmensions/universes, etc. Futhermore, existance is neccessary only when it needs to be observed. The old philosophical question of "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there does it make a sound?" could be answered by "It does not even fall, it is in it's fallen position only when an observer arrives." The best way to explain this is as an analogy to a multitasking operating system. It apears that a program has exclusive use of the machine and is always running, as so it appears to all other programs. In reality, the program only exists when it has something to do and is sharing the machine with all other programs. What we percieve as 'time' as a series of strung together instances, My current working value is 3x10E43 ipps (instances per percieved- second.) Speed of light as the limitting speed equates to how a particle (type is irrelevant) can move at most one coordinate position in a single instance. In order to move at a faster 'rate' would require an item to jump over coordinates. If it where to do so, it would need to leave our dimensional system, or at least not be observable in our dimensional system. Certain metaphysical works suggest that all of 'time' is occuring similtaneously and it is just our perception that orders events into a 'forward' moving string. That tough is for another venue, I hope this has helped. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 10:29:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA23896; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:28:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:28:50 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970923132544_336577742@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: MIrror image symmetry in coil winding??? Resent-Message-ID: <"DWD6J1.0.Ar5.Gn_9q"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/869 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi all, Is anyone familiar with mirror image symmetry in coil winding? Do you agree with the claims of the recent patent? Earl Koenig's (the inventor) claims are for two coils of the same size, a symmetry coil will have less resistance, less inductance, higher current, increased gauss, and higher force (in a solenoid configuration). I can see how all of this can take place but the lower inductance, I can't figure out. How can the INDUCTANCE be lower and the field strength be STRONGER than a coil of same size, wound in the standard fashion? If this is true this might have some interesting applications. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 11:03:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA01787; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:03:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:03:12 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:02:11 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: TO THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD Resent-Message-ID: <"uT_pu2.0.oR.TH0Aq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/870 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: TO THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD >From Joseph W. Newman Hideo Hayasaka and colleagues at the Faculty of Engineering, Tohoku University, Japan have done for my life's work what Arthur Eddington and colleagues during the Ecliptic Expedition of 1919 did for the work of Albert Einstein [i.e., Eddington and others proved that the light from a star was bent by the gravitational forces surrounding our Sun]. Interestingly enough, prior to 1919, Einstein was strongly criticized and ridiculed by some members of the scientific community for his work in Relativity and his now-famous formula, E=mc^2. After the experiment of 1919, Einstein's work was taken very seriously around the world. Similarly, my life's work -- relating to my Theory of the Gyroscopic Particle (Massergy) and my revolutionary energy technology -- has received a similar reception in some scientific circles, and some individuals have even attempted to steal and/or stop the development of my life's work. The A & E Network recently aired a nationally-telecast Special which featured the demonstrated conspiracy against my life's work. Now, for all who have doubted me and for all who wish to know the truth: I include the following from September 21, 1997: "In the London Sunday Telegraph of 21 Sept. 1997, Robert Matthews reports that a team of Japanese scientists have spun up a gyroscope to 18000 rpm and dropped it through a distance of 63 inches in vacuo. The time taken to fall this distance was 1/25000 sec. longer than when the gyroscope was not spinning, corresponding to a weight reduction of 1 part in 7000. The effect only occurred when the gyroscope was spinning anticlockwise. The fall was timed using laser beams. The team say that this is in line with earlier findings of theirs published in 1989. "This work was done by Hideo Hayasaka and colleagues at the Faculty of Engineering, Tohoku University, Japan, together with Matsushita the Japanese multinational. Their results are reported in the journal Speculations in Science and Technology." Fact: The experimenters at Tohoku University conclude in their work that "GRAVITY BREAKS DOWN COMPLETELY." Fact: Numerous copies of my book [THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN, originally published in 1984] have been sold in Japan to universities, professors, and industry. My work has been extensively featured in the Japanese media -- both in magazines and on television -- having had Japanese film crews often visit my laboratory. I refer the reader to Chapter 17 of my book where I discuss the paradox confronting the scientific community regarding "Why do INERTIA and GRAVITATIONAL MASSES EQUAL?" I then propose an experiment which will prove that "BOTH EFFECTS (Inertia and Gravitation) ARE RESULTS OF THE GYROSCOPIC PARTICLE COMPOSITION OF ALL MATTER." I also state that "The natural Inertia effect of an obvious mass is the result of SPEED of the GYROSCOPIC-ACTION-PARTICLE WHICH IS THE BASIC BUILDING ENTITY OF ALL MASS." Specifically, I propose that by using light beams (e.g., electric eye) one can prove a variance in the Inertia of a Mass. I describe how one can place a "GYROSCOPE HIDDEN INSIDE" a container and spin up the gyroscope "to 30,000RPM" and convince an uneducated person to state: "I know of an object that has a varying inertia." Note: Japanese scientists (who have had access to my book describing such testing) have placed a GYROSCOPE in a container and have spun it up to 18,000RPM, checking its falling speed with a laser beam (light source). It is no accident that they have run such tests which represent a specifically recommended test of one aspect of my life's work, described by myself over 13 years ago. These Japanese scientists have proved that under the above conditions, the gyroscope has a "VARYING INERTIA" or GRAVITATIONAL EFFECT. Remember, the members of the scientific community have long known and wondered why gravitational and inertial masses are equal. Neither Newton's nor Einstein's work could explain Inertia. And it is a fact that Einstein was criticized for not doing so. I have proven in Chapter 27 of my book that Inertia represents the result of the "GYROSCOPIC COMPOSITION OF ALL MATTER." Obviously, scientists are mystified by the fact that the above-described results are only detected when the gyroscope is spun "ANTICLOCKWISE." Consider that I have stated unequivocally that "Gravity is the unobvious effect of electromagnetic energy. Electromagnetism and magnetic energy consists of the GYROSCOPIC PARTICLE (Massergy) COMPOSITION OF ALL MATTER." Note: The result of the Japanese experiment is totally connected to the "GYROSCOPE" and its SPEED. All of this I have taught for many years. And regarding the Japanese scientists' discovery that their results occur when the gyroscope is spun ANTICLOCKWISE: If you live in the Northern Hemisphere (such as Japan) you will observe that as water travels down a sink drain it will rotate ANTICLOCKWISE. And in the Southern Hemisphere you will observe that such draining water rotates CLOCKWISE. In the first Chapter of my fundamental book I demonstrate and prove that a magnetic field consists of GYROSCOPIC PARTICLES and that (as depicted on page 11) I feature a drawing which indicates that if such GYROSCOPIC PARTICLES spin in the SAME direction, then they REPEL. Note: In the Japanese experiments their gyroscope spun in the SAME direction as the rotation of water traveling down drains in the Northern Hemisphere. The Earth's surface and its gyroscopic particle composition spin through space. Accordingly, a falling mass that is GYRATING at a high speed can expect to be affected by the GYROSCOPIC COMPOSITION OF ALL MATTER. I predicted this in no uncertain terms over 20 years ago and as first published in 1984! The Japanese scientists have proven me correct! Moreover, higher rotational speeds of 100,000 RPMs will provide even clearer results that what I say is true; and 1,000,000 RPMs even more so. Fact: During the famous Ecliptic Expedition of 1919, there was only a very minute change in the bending of light as predicted by Einstein --- but the HONEST PEOPLE OF THE EARTH TOOK IMMEDIATE NOTICE. Fact: Japanese scientists have now done the same for my life's work for Humanity. I ask all honest individuals to do the same. Currently, I have relocated to the Western United States and I am actively engaged in raising the capital to begin commercial production of my energy machine technology. I also predict (as described on page 368 of my book) that practical and economic space travel will result from my Company's work. That which I have previously published is extremely simple to me, mechanically speaking --- I envision interactions in three dimensions. However, those close to me have indicated that they have difficulty in visualizing interactive three dimensional images. [In her own words, my wife Olivia wrote the following both for her benefit and for the benefit of those who may not easily picture interactive, three dimensional images in their mind. She was clearly excited about the concepts. I hope you are also.] To quote from her: "Gyroscopic particles act like gears (as drawn on page 11 of Joseph Newman's book). Using the diagram, one can see how unlike charges attract [the same particles spinning in opposite directions] and like charges repel [the same particles spinning in the same direction] just like gears! "Now picture these same particles coming from the Earth in the Northern Hemisphere spinning in a counterclockwise position --- if a gyroscope is then dropped while spinning counterclockwise at a very high RMP (the particles coming out of the Earth are spinning in the same direction [like charges] as the gyroscope, then these gyroscopic particles will REPEL, slowing down the descent of the gyroscope. The faster the gyroscope spins, the more the gyroscope particles will repel and the slower the gyroscope will fall. "(In a vacuum) a gyroscope spinning at 1,000,000 RPMs will fall at a slower rate than one spinning at 18,000 RPMs. Considering that the particles coming up from the Earth are going at the speed of light, the rate of fall of the gyroscope will only be slight until the spin of that gyroscope ITSELF reaches the speed of light at which time the majority of the particles will REPEL and the gyroscope will FLOAT." [end of quote] Obtaining the "speed of light" rotation for a given gyroscope is NOT mechanically practical. [I again refer the reader to page 368 of my book for a presentation regarding practical space travel.] I now ask the reader to see page 10 of my book in which I explain how magnetic fields mechanically attract and repel as a result of the GYROSCOPIC particle (massergy) composition of all matter. [For a more precise mechanical understanding, one should impose a circle representing the Earth over the pictorial representation of the N/S fields emanating from a bar magnet] I also refer the reader to the drawing on page 118 of my book to which Dr. Robert Smith of NASA (Chief of Space Environment) had his statisticians study certain astronomical relationships of the Earth to the Sun and the Moon to the Earth. I stated unequivocally that "the Earth's true axis was the result of the Earth's magnetic axis being warped in outer space as it aligns with the Sun's magnetic field, and so also the Moon to the Earth." After studying my work, the statisticians at NASA in Huntsville, Alabama concluded: "THE CHANCES OF ME BEING WRONG WAS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE." Japanese scientists at Tohoku University have now verified my life's work for Humanity. All honest individuals will innately know that I speak the truth. In earlier posted information I provided exacting facts that hurricanes are not principally related to "heat" temperatures of water, but are principally related to electromagnetic induction into the Earth from the Sun --- especially as occurs during the Earth's crossing of the Sun equatorial plane on March 21st and September 21st. As though "right on schedule," hurricane Nora formed at 14.5 North and 102.8 West on Tuesday September 16, 1997 with initial winds at 45mph. Within four days the hurricane was only at 14.5 North and 104.2 West with winds of 100mph. It had moved very little! By Sunday, September 21st at 8:00am MT, Hurricane Nora's winds had increased to 125mph and was moving NW at 10mph --- the very day that the Earth was crossing the Sun's equatorial plane into opposite sunspot polarity! In the Astronomy Chapter of my book (pages 112 through 153) I provide exacting factual scientific information which proves that major storms, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc., are triggered by electromagnetic induction from sunspot activity into the Earth. As shown on page 113 of my book, Dr. Smith (Chief of Space Environment, NASA) sent me information concerning the life work of Dr. Huntington and said: "It contains much information that supplements and complements your work." Because the corrupt U.S. Government has conspired against the development of the Energy Machine aspect of my life's work (as shown on the recent A & E Special), they have also inadvertently conspired to keep the reader in the dark concerning the wide scope and breadth of what I teach. As a result, at this moment of writing thousands of people on the South California coast and also in Arizona are being warned and threatened by hurricane Nora which is expected to hit Southern California and travel inland across Arizona and other states. California is not generally prepared for a major hurricane. I urge people to ask their local libraries to obtain a copy of my fundamental book [The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman]. The information contained in this book is written for the well being of all Humanity. Love to you, Joseph Westley Newman [For those individuals who would like to view the book pages as indicated above, please send a SASE to the address below.] _____________________ Posted by: Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood LITERALLY. All energy is the same as _mechanical energy_, whether it exists in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form. The energy in electromagnetic phenomena is _mechanical_ energy." --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 11:48:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA23030; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709231847.LAA29907@iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: MIrror image symmetry in coil winding??? Resent-Message-ID: <"1Wi161.0.kd5.8x0Aq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/871 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Butch, > Is anyone familiar with mirror image symmetry in coil winding? Do you agree >with the claims of the recent patent? Earl Koenig's (the inventor) claims are >for two coils of the same size, a symmetry coil will have less resistance, >less inductance, higher current, increased gauss, and higher force (in a >solenoid configuration). I can see how all of this can take place but the >lower inductance, I can't figure out. How can the INDUCTANCE be lower and the >field strength be STRONGER than a coil of same size, wound in the standard >fashion? If this is true this might have some interesting applications. Could you please give a patent number for us who don't recall? Are these 2 solenoids, one left-hand wound and the other right-hand wound? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 11:58:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA24358; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:02:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november Reply-To: Steve Ekwall To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Something from nothing Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Zeylz3.0.Qy5.141Aq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/872 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This little article just appeared today in my local newspapers science section, has anyone received any more info? ----------snip---------- SCIENTISTS BEAM AT CREATION A Trailblazing experiment at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center in Calofornia has confirmed a long- standing prediction by theorists that light beams colliding with each other can goad the empty vacuum into cre- ating something out of nothing. In a report published this month by the journal PHYSICAL REVIEW LET- TERS, 20 physicist disclosed that they had created two tiny specks of mat- ter -- an electron and its antimatter counterpart, a positron -- by collid- ing two ultrapowerful beams of radi- ation. ------------ end snip -------------- While Evan/Newman say it's there, And Ross Tessien is sure he can take it Apart, Looks like with Bose-Eintsein condensates (sp) that the star-trek 'Replicator' may be in our grandchildren's Future.. Is this a great time to be alive OR What?!! :) -=se=- one Earl-Grey Tea - steaming, please. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 12:38:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA22971; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:37:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:37:56 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:37:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970923153309_-630009384@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: MIrror image symmetry in coil winding??? Resent-Message-ID: <"HlhID.0.mc5.Ig1Aq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/873 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Butch, You ask an excellent question. By definition, if the field strength is greater the inductance is higher, *all other parameters held constant*. Possibly the cross sectional area or something else is assumed to change? Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 12:38:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA00535; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:37:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:37:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:38:40 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Off Topic] Compass coming or going Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5zXXr.0.48.Hg1Aq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/874 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: N->S or S->N here's an articale of an UPDATED COMPASS that I found interesting: (RMN's today) "------------------snip-----------------" NEW COMPASS FINDS WAY WHETHER COMING OR GOING Homer Hiker employs light, memory chip to record directions by Jonathan Beard ------------------- New Scientist For more than 2,000 years the magnetic compass has remained unchanged. Now Directional Robotics of Fresno, Calif., has updated the device so that it remembers the movement of anyone carrying it. The compass "needle" in the company's Homer Hiker is fixed to a free-floating disc. Cut into the disc, and running all round it close to the edge, is a tapered gap. This is widest at the East position and becomes narrower as it goes round the disc, tapering away to nothing when it has gone full circle. A fixed light beneath the disc shines through the gap to strike a photocell mounted above it. The amount of light received by the photocell is proportional to the position of the needle. This allows the device to work out which way the person carrying the compass is heading. The bearing is logged by a memory chip, which also records how long the needle points in any particular direction. Harold Gallagher, president of Directional Robotics, says that the key to the Homer Hiker's success is the use of light to detect the position of the needle. Previous "electronic magnetic compasses" failed because of the electromagnetic fields created by their circuit boards. Using light and mounting the memory chip away from the needle avoids producing fields strong enough to affect it. Homer Hiker will go on sale next year at a price of around $50, Gallagher says. It will consume much less power than location devices that rely on Global Positioning System satellites. "Batteries that power a GPS unit for one day would run a Homer for a month," Gallagher says. Directional Robotics expects divers, potholers and loggers working in dense woodland to be interested in Homer Hiker. GPS works only in open areas because it needs to receive signals from at least three different satellites. Gallagher thinks blind people may also find a use for his compass. Once someone has walked a certain route, the compass can guide that person -- or anyone else -- along the same path through a speech synthesizer connected to it. ---------------end snip------------ Is this a Great Time to Be Alive OR What?? :) -=se=- 'going back for that Elk (during hunting season) And that wedding ring we left at the last 'camp-site' last night -- BACK SOON!' :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 12:55:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA29136; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:55:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:55:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199709231946.MAA27105@claim.goldrush.com> From: "Wes Crosiar" To: Subject: Tom Beardon Dead Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:48:52 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IlmF71.0.677.ow1Aq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/875 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Reed: Tom Beardon is fine. I would have posted last night but my system was down. thanks wes From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 13:16:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA07672; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:15:10 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970923155651_1097594318@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: MIrror image symmetry in coil winding??? Resent-Message-ID: <"QrGXi3.0.lt1.BD2Aq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/876 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dave, Patent # 4,806,834 Thanks for the help, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 13:31:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA10162; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709232028.NAA31247@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: MIrror image symmetry in coil winding??? Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:31:05 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TS27l.0.fU2.uQ2Aq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/877 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Butch and Dave, > > Is anyone familiar with mirror image symmetry in coil winding? Do you agree > >with the claims of the recent patent? Earl Koenig's (the inventor) claims are > >for two coils of the same size, a symmetry coil will have less resistance, > >less inductance, higher current, increased gauss, and higher force (in a > >solenoid configuration). I can see how all of this can take place but the > >lower inductance, I can't figure out. How can the INDUCTANCE be lower and the > >field strength be STRONGER than a coil of same size, wound in the standard > >fashion? If this is true this might have some interesting applications. Yes, we had a discussion about this on the list fairly recently. The upshot of it was that some people thought there wasn't anything unusual about it, and Stuart Rae and I and maybe some others thought there was. > > Could you please give a patent number for us who don't recall? Are these 2 > solenoids, one left-hand wound and the other right-hand wound? I am resending you two all the correspondence on this subject. This should answer some questions. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 13:43:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA12390; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3428284B.22364DBB@mail.idt.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:36:27 -0400 From: Josef Katz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. References: <199709230600.XAA05234@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aYLhO.0.T13.Vc2Aq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/878 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Fred, define what you mean by beat. -joey katz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 14:43:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA24576; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:42:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:42:58 -0700 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:42:47 +1000 Message-Id: <199709232142.HAA16445@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Time (was Re: Only the 'now' exists.) Resent-Message-ID: <"x3UPf3.0.o_5.WV3Aq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/879 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Whether or not 'time' has any physical basis is not important since we >have ways to 'measure' 'it'. I do not believe time to be fundamental part >of nature, but more a convenient way to identify a particulae state of >out reality. > Time flow is intrinsic to the universe. What we are "measuring" is the variable permeability of the nucleus, as modified by induced spin. >Just becuse you can repeatedly drop a ball from a certain height and start >counting electrons being emmitted from cesium, and at the point the balls >touches the ground the same number of >electrons are counted does not make time a physical reality. > If there was no secondary time field associated with matter, there would be no gravity. >First off, I do not believe that space is infinately divisable, but >instead has a granularity on the order of 10 E-33 to 10E-38 cm or so. > Where do you get this from? Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 14:44:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA24919; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:43:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:43:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199709232143.OAA24296@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:51:08 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gOHXG2.0.D56.KW3Aq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/880 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > Fred, define what you mean by beat. > > -joey katz A counting operation associated with a certain arbitrary value of any parameter. For instance if I have a piece of music playing, a counter could be set nearby to change by one number if a certain decibel level, or frequency, or any arbitrary parameter, is present. At the end of the music there would be certain number of counts or beats assigned to that piece of music. Speculation: Counting is more primal than time. But memory appears to be more primal than counting. The register has to hold a value until a new value is added to it. Memory is associated with mass, because inertia is a form of memory. The register in the previous example could be an inertial mass that is accelerated to an arbitrary degree with each count. I say 'arbitrary' to avoid questions like "how do you measure the acceleration without invoking time?" You don't need to measure it, you just need to know that there HAS been an acceleration. In this sense a rotating object has a memory. Now consider the example given, except that each count is registered by an arbitrary but constant acceleration of a spinning disc. The total acceleration (spin velocity) of the disc plus the arbitrary acceleration assigned to one count constitute a memory of the number of beats in the music. If we hand the spinning disc and the disc accelerator to another person, they can determine the number of counts in the music by applying the accelerator in reverse and counting the number of DE-celerations it takes for the disc to come to a stop. You understand that I am thinking out loud here, not coming to conclusions, but this line of thinking reinforces my sense that time is a product of inertia (memory) and acceleration (change). Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 18:03:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA02558; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:01:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:01:22 -0700 Message-ID: <342872A9.7F2B@mediacity.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:53:45 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, brin-l@cornell.edu CC: Newman-L@emachine.com, whitegold@zz.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, antigravity@primenet.com, usa-tesla@list.iex.net, weirdscience@integral.org Subject: Aenertia, Aether and Anomalous Aenergy .... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CQ6sw3.0.fd.TP6Aq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/881 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Vortex-L and friends, Free energy, new energy, zero-point energy, cold fusion, filamentary fusion, cluster fusion, ether, aether, inertia, enertia, aenertia, energy, aenergy? Just what are we looking at here? What foundation of nature? Whence the creation of mass? How the production, where the origin, of energy? OU, Overunity? I like that term. It really spells it out. Anomolous energy? Well, sure, but we are beginning to understand its origins in the ubiquitous aenertial aether. Thus it is generally not anomalous at all. Unlimited Energy? Infinite Energy? Primordial Energy? Massergy? In concert with the coordination of the Global Aether Workshop collaboration I suggested the coining or consideration of a new word, enertia, to replace the outdated (incomplete and mis-associated) terms of inertia and energy. As the EMG aether vortex wave foundations of nature are much vaster than the limited occasions of its 'energetic' or 'mass' forms -- I wished to encouraged the adoption and promulgation of a term without the old limitations and baggage. Chuck and Barbara Bennett one-upped me. They came back with the word 'aenertia' -- which I immediately adopted. The advantage of the term aenertia is it is clearly associated with the dynamic aether vortex (aka electromagnetic wave) origin of all known phenomena -- and being precursor to mass and energy, eliminates the need to include negative mass and negative energy in our overunity and matter production equations. Tentatively I have been thinking of suggesting a 'unit' (the 'alpha') defined as a standard measure of volumetric aether flux. It would then be always positive, whether a CCW wave or a CW wave or a positron or an electron, representing the total available aenertial flux in the system. As compared to a true 'energy' equation which would show the total energy of a positron/electron pair as zero. Wha cha think? Millennium From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 19:51:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA21834; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:50:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:50:22 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:49:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970923224304_-2031780216@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Mirror image symmetry big question!! (very big) Resent-Message-ID: <"MOnPs3.0.kK5.h_7Aq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/882 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: (Sit down for this one!) Ok you guys, here is a big and important question about MISICW (mirror image symmetry in coil winding). Can you wind a second layer on top of the first in the very same fashion as the first bottom winding and double the effect ? If so, could you go 3 or 4 layers, ect.? Each layer is not a part of a continious wire length, but a seperate set of coils wired in parallel with the other layers. I know that the core would saturate at a point but my question is, can the layers work in the fashion I speak of ? If the induction does go down and field strength go up as stated and indicated by the test data (4 to 1 ratio between standard and MISICW, both being of same physical size) then it would appear to me when used with another coil of like kind, and in conjuction with a step down transformer, ( voltage down, current up) that a loop of increasing power would develope and reach a melt down point ! I,m sure I'm wrong, but what if ? Comments please, Thanks, Butch LaFonte For info on MISICW: www.padrak.com/ine/KOENIG.html Patent # 4,806,834 At the IBM patent server Also see posts on todays lists for downloads From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 20:14:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA07692; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34288433.4742F5C4@mail.idt.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:08:35 -0400 From: Josef Katz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. References: <199709232143.OAA24296@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YWLg7.0.5u1.AL8Aq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/883 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: uh fred, what i'm about to say will sound sorta nitpicky, but keep in mind, that ou is based on nitpicking and noticing that tiny extra bit of energy, so... in your description of beat, you used the word frequency. however, i seem to recall you using the term beat to indirectly define frequency, am i iagining it, or have you incoked the ancient evil of using circular logic? I know i'm nitpicking, but keep in mind the example set by chaos theory, which teaches us that even a tiny detail can make a BIG difference. oh well, I always was a nitpicker, especially about star trek... -joey katz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 20:55:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA32070; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:54:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:54:09 -0700 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:51:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709240351.XAA29128@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: World 'Muse' Update! Resent-Message-ID: <"RXV1I.0.wq7.Vx8Aq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/884 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:53 PM 9/19/97 -0400, you wrote: >At 07:23 PM 9/18/97 -0800, Millennium Twain wrote: >> >>In October 1997 I will be relocating, for an indeterminate period, to >>New Zealand -- where I will be sojourning with nature and apprenticing >>with Bruce DePalma. For delivery after October 1st 1997, please >>address all correspondence to: Millennium Twain, c/o the DePalma >>Institute, PO Box 21-972, Henderson, West Auckland, New Zealand. >> >>********** > > while checking things out see if there is still a Robert Adams down there and if has done anything with his motor and if you can see one run and operate in an overunity mode. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 23 23:47:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA20914; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:46:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:46:48 -0700 From: PROTIEUS@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 02:46:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970924024610_-1965006536@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: >>>>>>TIRES<<<<<< Resent-Message-ID: <"miziN3.0.h65.NTBAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/885 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: HELLO HOW IS EVERYONE..thats good to hear i have another interesting question has anyone heard or know of any polymer that can make tires invulnerable to anything ..?? thanks later.. Scotty From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 00:03:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA23246; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 00:03:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 00:03:09 -0700 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:02:35 +1000 Message-Id: <199709240702.RAA03531@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_875148682==_" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: the D.O.G. X-Attachments: C:\MOUSE\DOG.GIF; Resent-Message-ID: <"hfog72.0.6h5.hiBAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/886 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --=====================_875148682==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The attached GIF is a basic concept for an O/U generator using the non-linear response to applied voltage, and induced polarity reversal, inherent to Barium crystal. Any takers?? 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dacxey1gJ/P5jiMy2+oqSA4O4WRg2WI19y5koAI6aTPUIlZM+bI3FJby8mJhj4w2bXQzDTYiIRaJ wHU2lNEgQpYxm6WMSMIDE1BgD9Jkf7Rh7eNgSdNgWZYtPiMlOHZmZ6JmqY8yBUNl8wYXbY9f/Ys7 C9aksOZnLfZkpzM8dTZnh7ZPVMtlOW5EUBbn3PNfvxZswzZsQQJm/8XWbA+I12SvPK8EY8/Wbd8W bs/TqOKWbtHIDDWtY+ExS2DCa+vWb/8WcFfuVgOXcL2kbalsjO5WPQa3cBvXcR8XoywDcifXZlZQ 0w4xF9GDbymXczvXc8+KbD9XdLnkEKns7gLQE//jcEeXdVvXdXMGLvr2dWe3Kk53017LVbyySmKX dnvXd38XWEAiaYGXeHfCZBjXTin2eJERPYS3eJ8XeqOXPG5TeoHXoGR3wRr1bPb2KqvXe78XfAOw bMP3dV9leM1KezHyPEKSfNvXfd0XJN5XfoP1fM/KXXcxPWCifueXf/u3cCkCe/33c1M19pLVWLcE LvZXgBeYgRvYgQvpNGhnj+Ee+GYCAgA7 --=====================_875148682==_-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 00:28:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA25801; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 00:27:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 00:27:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199709240727.AAA16835@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 00:08:30 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Eq49R3.0.2J6.q3CAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/887 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > uh fred, what i'm about to say will sound sorta nitpicky, but keep in > mind, that ou is based on nitpicking and noticing that tiny extra bit of > energy, so... > > in your description of beat, you used the word frequency. Yes, I did write the word frequency but only to confuse the issue, it was not one of the basic points. I do NOT define beat according to frequency, I just used frequency as one example of a parameter that could be detected by a beat counter-- apor example, I will admit. Reread my post and you will see that I have carefully avoided all reference to time based processes except when I so state. however, i > seem to recall you using the term beat to indirectly define frequency, > am i iagining it, Yes. or have you incoked the ancient evil of using circular > logic? I know i'm nitpicking, Nitpicking is OK, but in this case you are latching on to a word without seeing the context. I am NOT defining anything having to do with the "length" of a beat. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 01:03:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA28860; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:02:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:02:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709240802.BAA20220@denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Mirror image symmetry big question!! (very big) Resent-Message-ID: <"MZss11.0.m27.baCAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/888 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Butch, I read the Toby Grotz paper and the patent 4806834 and agree with the previous comments that the coils are only connected in parallel, and that there are no special effects. In fact, I don't think he used the mirror effect. - instead of starting the windings at both ends of the coil form (0 and 100%), start the coils at 0 and 50%. Then you will get 2 identical coils (non-mirrored) side by side. If they are connected in parallel, the same current changes, inductance, etc. will be noted as in the mirror coils. >Can you wind a second layer on top of the first in the very same fashion as >the first bottom winding and double the effect ? If so, could you go 3 or 4 >layers, ect.? Note when you wind a normal multi-layered solenoid, the second layer is a mirror image of the first, etc. This continues for all the layers, like normally done in a AC transformer. Normally all the winding layers are connected in series (no taps), so the current is the same for all the turns. Connecting the layers in parallel is equivalent to a larger wire as noted in the earlier posts. The limit, of course is 1 turn of a solid mass of conductor with the same amp turn(s). -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 01:32:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id BAA03432 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:32:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: david.mckee@rtp.gtegsc.com Wed Sep 24 01:32:21 1997 Received: from auntbea.rtp.gtegsc.com (auntbea.rtp.gtegsc.com [192.133.124.7]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA03384; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kingston ([192.133.51.114]) by auntbea.rtp.gtegsc.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.0) with SMTP id AAA5360; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 04:32:45 -0400 Sender: mckee@eskimo.com Message-ID: <3428D1A0.520@rtp.gtegsc.com> Old-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 04:38:56 -0400 From: David McKee Organization: GTE Systems (my views are my own) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M.Twain" CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, brin-l@cornell.edu, Newman-L@emachine.com, whitegold@zz.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, antigravity@primenet.com, usa-tesla@list.iex.net, weirdscience@integral.org Subject: Re: [Antigravity] Aenertia, Aether and Anomalous Aenergy .... References: <342872A9.7F2B@mediacity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: M.Twain wrote: > > We are "In Search Of . . ." answers together. Each posting must reflect > personal respect, integrity, honesty, and full disclosure of information. > ---------- > > Vortex-L and friends, > > Free energy, new energy, zero-point energy, cold fusion, filamentary > fusion, cluster fusion, ether, aether, inertia, enertia, aenertia, > energy, aenergy? > > The advantage of the term aenertia is it is clearly associated with the > dynamic aether vortex (aka electromagnetic wave) origin of all known > phenomena -- and being precursor to mass and energy, eliminates the need > to include negative mass and negative energy in our overunity and matter > production equations. Tentatively I have been thinking of suggesting a > 'unit' (the 'alpha') defined as a standard measure of volumetric aether > flux. It would then be always positive, whether a CCW wave or a CW wave > or a positron or an electron, representing the total available aenertial > flux in the system. As compared to a true 'energy' equation which would > show the total energy of a positron/electron pair as zero. > > Wha cha think? > > Millennium To be quite honest I think most of these terms are amourphous and really just alot of gobbly-de-gook. I have read many many many of those who are and who claim to be doing alterante energy/physics research and they fall into to basic groups: Those who are actually investigating phenomenon, and those who spout alot of high falutin sounding gobbly-de-gook in a vain attempt to sound like a real scientist, and I must say these terms sound alot like the latter. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to insult you, but I see no real "equations" presented, I see no real definitions here, or in the so-called articles (for example, "Col" T. Bearden comes to mind as a big time purveyor of confusing sounding rubbish that is supposed to be taken as serious science. I think he may have a couple of interesting and real ideas/results but he likes to cloak it in words that create confusion.) Your suggestion of a unit measure of volumetric aether flux is perhaps the clearest of the terms suggested. -- David T. McKee: -- -- -- The newage is as old as lie. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 01:41:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA32380; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:40:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:40:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199709240840.BAA26378@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: the D.O.G. Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:46:48 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pJEuH.0.rv7.r7DAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/889 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Peter, I'm glad you have presented your idea to the group. It is direct and straightforward (at least in appearance). The principle being as I understand it that the oscillating potential field of the HV generator reverses the polarity of the BaTiO3 crystal without losing energy (the crystal appearing simply as the dielectric in a cap to the generator). What electrical factor of the crystal is varying to produce usable power? Is it the charge on the crystal (inductive process) or is it the permittivity (parametric process)? It seems that it must be the second becasue if charge is removed from the crystal it would affect the generator. It is known that the Barium Titanate crystal has a nonlinear permittivity characteristic on reversal in applied fields (a nuisance when trying to create a capacitor out of it). I think some version of this will work. Sorry I'm not a builder... Fred > The attached GIF is a basic concept for an O/U generator using the > non-linear response to applied voltage, and induced polarity reversal, > inherent to Barium crystal. > > Any takers?? > > Peter Nielsen > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 05:06:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA19752; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 05:05:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 05:05:58 -0700 Message-ID: <34291E2A.5BBD@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:05:30 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. References: <199709232143.OAA24296@mail1.halcyon.com> <34288433.4742F5C4@mail.idt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Eyg931.0.Wq4.a8GAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/890 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Josef Katz wrote: > You must understand what we mean by time doesn't exist. My personal theory is that time is not a real thing. You need it to define the universe. Time exists, but is absolute and cannot be changed. Apparent time can be changed by travelling at high speeds, but I believe this to be caused by gravitational effects on the moving object, not a change of time. Therefore, if I travel FTL, I don't go back in time. THis has been proven with jump transmitters and protonic signalling many times. Time is not a material thing. Time machine design: Put every state of energy, motion, position back the way it was at said time in past, and theoretically, you've gone back in time, sort of... "You can't touch it, or hold it, or wrap it up tight, but its there just the same, making things turn out right." -an old saying From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 06:40:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id GAA23645; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 06:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 06:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <970924083906.ZM14575@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:39:06 -0500 In-Reply-To: PROTIEUS@aol.com ">>>>>>TIRES<<<<<<" (Sep 24, 1:58am) References: <970924024610_-1965006536@emout07.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: >>>>>>TIRES<<<<<< Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"R-DHO.0.Kn5.8WHAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/891 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 24, 1:58am, PROTIEUS@aol.com wrote: > has anyone heard or know of any polymer that can make tires invulnerable > to anything ..?? Anything? I suppose that's arguable. There is some good stuff out there, but typically there are performance tradeoffs. Is there any other information? How did you hear of this? Your question is a bit too general. -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 06:42:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA31836; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 06:41:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 06:41:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199709241341.PAA39464@sdn5.csc.dk> From: i3683@csc.dk (I3683) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:22:00 CET DST Subject: Gyroscope experiments To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"JDRE61.0.Fn7.OYHAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/892 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In this weekends Sunday Telegraph newspaper there was an article app page 9, about a new article in "Speculations in Science and Techology" (volume, pagenumber etc not specified) about Japanese gyro experiment, (a follow up to some earlier Japanese gyro experiments) where a gyro was dropped in vacuum, and the acceleration was slightly different from the normal 9.81 m/s. Have any of you access to Speculations in Science and Techology and can you find the volume, page number, authors, title, etc? Reagrds, Anders From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 06:42:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA31883; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 06:41:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 06:41:57 -0700 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: the D.O.G., capacitive transformer ! Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:41:45 +0100 Message-Id: <19970924154145.3e99bea8.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"mz8i81.0.2o7.aYHAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/893 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 17:02 24.09.1997 +1000, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >The attached GIF is a basic concept for an O/U generator using the >non-linear response to applied voltage, and induced polarity reversal, >inherent to Barium crystal. > >Any takers?? > >Peter Nielsen > I guess it is something simular to the TEP 6.1x in the capacitive area ! Looks pretty interesting and easy to build ! It is like a capacitive transformer.. Here also the question is, if you draw power form the output, is it also drawing more power from the input ? Also, how much high voltage AC power must be generated to drive the output ? The outer Big capacitor has also a lower resistance when applying AC ! So how much power has to be supplied via the HVAC generator ? But Good idea ! Somebody should try it ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 06:58:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id GAA25493; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 06:58:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 06:58:13 -0700 (PDT) From: chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com Message-Id: <199709241357.JAA01674@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 09:22:38 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <199709232142.HAA16445@nornet.nor.com.au> Cc: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Time (was Re: Only the 'now' exists.) X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.30a (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"qNeLi3.0.AE6.nnHAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/894 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In <199709232142.HAA16445@nornet.nor.com.au>, on 09/24/97 at 07:42 AM, Peter Nielsen said: >If there was no secondary time field associated with matter, there would >be no gravity. This seams like a relativistic p.o.v. to me. Using my model of space as discreet points, with the aether occupying all points not otherwise occupied by matter, push gravity can be explained by the displacement of aether by matter. >>First off, I do not believe that space is infinately divisable, but >>instead has a granularity on the order of 10 E-33 to 10E-38 cm or so. >> >Where do you get this from? Derived from numerous sources. First, we have Plank Time, 10E-43 seconds. Traditional physics does not concern itself about the state of the universe before this point. String theory uses the value of around 10 E-33cm as the distance matter traveled the first 'momement' after the big bang. These are the values I use, and indeed may be off my several orders of magnitude. At this point, the actual values are not important, they serve as a starting point in order to conceptualize the implications of a such modeled universe. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 07:43:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id HAA00862; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709241442.HAA13914@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "vortex" , "Free Energy" Subject: THE SPINDIZZY Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:49:03 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zbt7R3.0.MD.0RIAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/895 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Folks! It's been a couple of weeks since I set loose a nice crackpot idea on the lists and it seems like you might be missing the excitement of tearing one apart :-) I wish you would dispose of this one, it is driving me crazy! I've asked several people now this question and have not gotten what I consider a satisfactory answer, so I'm presenting it in another form to the group. The output torque of a gyroscope under forced precession is: T = IwV Where T = output torque I = moment of inertia along gyro spin axis w = gyro spin velocity V = forced precession velocity In the ideal, friction-free situation, by Newton's laws, the rotation along both the spin axis and the precession axis can continue forever. When a counter torque ( -T) is applied to the output torque axis, the precession velocity decreases, as w and I are fixed. An additional torque must be applied to the precession axis to compensate for the countertorque, otherwise the precession will come to a stop. This is all basic physics that no one should have a problem with. You MIGHT have a problem with the next part :-) As has been said the gyro spin velocity is fixed-- and the countertorque being applied to the output axis can have no effect on it, as is intuitively obvious and explained by a mechanics axiom which basically states that a force applied at right angles to another force cannot affect its magnitude, although it changes its direction. But at the same time the gyro spin does contribute to the output torque, as can be seen from the (carefully checked) equation above. [This is described as the nonreciprocal property of a gyro, shared with only a few other physical systems, namely the Faraday rotation of light, the Hall effect, and similar applications in microwave phase shifters. All of these involve rotation of a force at right angles without applying energy, that is they are (ideally) passive.] Returning to the physical situation of a countertorque (load) applied to the output axis... Suppose while the -T is being applied, an additional torque is applied to the spin axis so that the original torque T = IwV is maintained. In other words w is increased so that V does not have to decrease. It should be noted that an increased spin velocity does not change the precession velocity because the force is applied at right angles to the precession force. The new torque on the spin axis does not create any countertorque on the precession axis. This is basic mechanics. Now lets examine this torque applied to the spin axis because this where the ANOMALOUS ENERGY comes in :-) It appears in a rather strange form. Energy is apparently conserved in the system as described because the torque applied to the spin axis must be equivalent to the countertorque according to our simple equation. Unfortunately for the conservation laws THE ENERGY OF THE TORQUE APPLIED TO THE SPIN AXIS IS CONSERVED AS SPIN. As the loading is continuous, so must the spin axis torque must be, constantly accelerating the disc and storing energy in it according to the equation E = 1/2mV^2 This is the principle of a flywheel, and a good portion of the original energy can be retrieved from a spinning disc in practice, and ALL of it can be retrieved in theory. Spin is an an energy storage mechanism and does not dissipate energy. And, again, the countertorque applied to the output axis has, obviously, no effect on the spin axis, being at right angles. It is clear that the energy applied to the spin axis is conserved. After all this, my question is: How is the conservation law maintained over the whole situation? The spin energy contributes to the output torque, but loading this torque does not dissipate the spin energy! Putting it bluntly, the energy debt has been paid with a rubber check! I believe the excess energy is derived from the force of Inertia, which is a REAL force, and not simply a reaction force. I suspect there is an electrical anlogy to this system but I have not been able to come up with it yet. Science fiction fans might note that I have named this system the "Spindizzy" after the propulsion system in James Blish's series "Cities In Flight". This is taking some creative liberties, because the original spindizzy was a machine for antigravity rather than perpetual motion-- but with one taken care of, can the other be far behind? :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 07:50:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id HAA02131; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:50:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:50:33 -0700 (PDT) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <970924095021.ZM15252@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:50:21 -0500 In-Reply-To: i3683@csc.dk (I3683) "Gyroscope experiments" (Sep 24, 8:55am) References: <199709241341.PAA39464@sdn5.csc.dk> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gyroscope experiments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"0AfTb3.0.CX.qYIAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/896 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 24, 8:55am, I3683 wrote: > In this weekends Sunday Telegraph newspaper there was an article app > page 9, about a new article in "Speculations in Science and Techology" > (volume, pagenumber etc not specified) about Japanese gyro experiment, > (a follow up to some earlier Japanese gyro experiments) where a gyro > was dropped in vacuum, and the acceleration was slightly different > from the normal 9.81 m/s. This may be newly reported, but this is not new information by any measure. The original experiment was first reported in Physical Review Letters, 63, 2701-2704 (1989). Experiment parameters, data, and Dr. Hashida's email address: http://www.archi.is.tohoku.ac.jp/member/staff/tadao/hayasaka-p.html -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 08:05:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA12305; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:05:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:05:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199709241504.IAA21811@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Gyroscope experiments Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:54:33 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5z0cW.0.703.VmIAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/897 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, I am going to the library on Thursday to get this article among other things. I will report... Fred > In this weekends Sunday Telegraph newspaper there was an article app > page 9, about a new article in "Speculations in Science and Techology" > (volume, pagenumber etc not specified) about Japanese gyro experiment, > (a follow up to some earlier Japanese gyro experiments) where a gyro > was dropped in vacuum, and the acceleration was slightly different > from the normal 9.81 m/s. > > Have any of you access to Speculations in Science and Techology and > can you find the volume, page number, authors, title, etc? > > Reagrds, Anders From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 09:39:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA18103; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:38:01 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970924123458_2064612291@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Test results, symmetry winding coil Resent-Message-ID: <"TUlLL3.0.jQ4.W7KAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/898 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To all: Notice the reduction in Inductance but increase in Gauss and Force ! We have tested this design using two identical Guardian 11 HD INT 12VDC solenoids. One solenoid was re wound using mirror image symmetry and the same wire that came on the solenoid. The performance of the solenoid using the mirror image symmetry is outstanding, far beyond the solenoid using conventional windings. Resistance Inductance Current Gauss Force (ohms) (mH) (Amps @ 5VDC) @ 5VDC (gms) Mirror Image Symmetry 2.0 1.08 2.45 121.2 340 Standard Winding 7.3 4.28 0.68 58.5 169 The results shown above indicate that four times more current can be used to generate a magnetic field with mirror image symmetry winding techniques. The measured value of magnetic field of the mirror image symmetry configuration, measured at the center of the ends of the solenoid, is double that of the standard winding. The force available with a plunger in the solenoid was also measured to be twice that of the standard configuration. Comments please, Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 09:53:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA31935; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:52:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:52:34 -0700 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_875151385==_" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: TEP V7.1 Proposal circuit ! X-Attachments: D:\SHTEP71.GIF; Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:46:51 +0100 Message-Id: <19970924184651.3f433532.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"OtK_i3.0.to7.GLKAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/899 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --=====================_875151385==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, some have reported the UUencoded picture did not come through.. So I resend it as MIME encoded ! Hi TEP Team, Here is my TEP 7.1 test circuit proposal ! With the adjustable puls delay you have to adjust the energizing of the coils this way, that the coils are still powered about 500 ns to 1 usec as the P-MOS FET already shorts coil L1 ! 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Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com --=====================_875151385==_-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 10:49:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA08768; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:48:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:48:47 -0700 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709241737.KAA04303@germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Test results, symmetry winding coil Resent-Message-ID: <"tKMB9.0.v82.z9LAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/900 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:37 PM 9/24/97 -0400, you wrote: >To all: Notice the reduction in Inductance but increase in Gauss and Force ! > >We have tested this design using two identical Guardian 11 HD INT 12VDC >solenoids. One solenoid was re wound using mirror image symmetry and the same >wire that came on the solenoid. The performance of the solenoid using the >mirror image symmetry is outstanding, far beyond the solenoid using >conventional windings. I still think it's just 2 coils in parallel. In fact, twice the field at 4X the current and 4X the power. Maybe one should go the other direction?:-). In fact, in a normal coil, if the current is increased 2X, the voltage is increased 2X, and the power 4X. The B field is increased 2X with the current. The coil itself and its inductance isn't changed. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 13:13:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA18504; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709242011.NAA19016@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "vortex" , "Free Energy" Subject: a SPINDIZZY gif, and more explanation Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:18:45 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BCC8EC.629C9FC0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"weHUn1.0._W4.MGNAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/901 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BCC8EC.629C9FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks! For anyone who is trying to visualize my complex gyroscopic scheme, here is some additional information. > > >BTW If anyone is interested I have written a post called THE SPINDIZZY > > >which I think goes to the heart of overunity efforts. I do not believe > > >anyone will find any "holes" in it, I have checked it over very > carefully. > > >If you DO, I want to know!! Although the example given is mechanical I > > >believe the principles are completely general. The mechanical example is > > >easy to visualize because the principles involve spatial orientation. > > > > > > > Can you do some drawing, to support your ideas... > > > > I do not understand this just from reading... > > Sorry again, I have looked at so many gyros I have forgotten that not > everyone knows the terms and space relations. > If you look at the GIF, The axis going straight up marked "Omega" is the > precessional axis, the axis marked "w" is the spin axis and the "axis of > nodes" is what I am calling the torque or output axis. > In a normal top or gyro demonstration a mass is attached to one end of the > w axis so there is a gravitational torque pulling it down. The gyro then > begins to precess around the omega axis, as I'm sure you have seen with > gyro toys, where the gyro is placed sideways on a little pedestal so that > it seems that it must fall, but instead it rotates around. > > In the spindizzy, the gyro is made to rotate around the omega > (precessional) axis as well as of course the spin axis. The result is that > a rotation occurs around the axis of nodes (what I call the output axis). > In a working model there would need to be a generator attached to the > platform of the output axis, a motor attached to the precession axis, and a > motor-generator attached to the spin axis. > ---The precession axis motor is simply to compensate for frictional losses > so it runs at basically no load (in fact it can be off for much of the > time-- the motors that drive missile gyros can be left off for 6 months at > a time!) > > ---The generator loads the output axis ("axis of nodes"). This is where the > power is taken off. > > ---The motor/generator performs three functions: > MOTOR > 1) It provides momentary bursts of power to maintain spin against > frictional forces. > 2) when the torque axis is loaded by its generator it provides a steady > torque to the spin axis to compensate for this. > GENERATOR > 3) when there is no load on the output axis, the motor acts like a > generator and extracts the stored power from the spin axis much like a > flywheel storage system. This is the key to O/U performance. The angular > momentum of the spin is used without depleting the spin energy. > > Note: I am not suggesting that anyone build this device, although it could > be done. Supplying power to a multiply-rotating framework would be > difficult, to say the least. Also, the mechanical inefficiencies would > result in an overunity performance of only about 100 to 120% efficiency. > The reason I am focussing on this device (when I am not making bad > suggestions to the TEP team :-\) > is to point out some basic principles having to do with spin, forces at > right angles, and nonreciprocal systems. I believe that the secret of > antigravity and overunity is in this demonstration device, and it has to do > with time. > > Fred > > > ------=_NextPart_000_01BCC8EC.629C9FC0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="gyro.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: gyro (GIF Image) Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="gyro.gif" R0lGODlhLQGJAcT/AP///0JCQkpKSlJSUlpaWmNjY2tra3Nzc3t7e4SEhIyMjJSUlJycnKWlpa2t rbW1tb29vcbGxs7OztbW1t7e3ufn5+/v7/f39wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAEA AD0ALAAAAAAtAYkBQAX/ICCOZGmeaKqubOu+cCzPdG3feK7vfO//wKBwSCwaj8ikcslsOp/QqHRK ra4mjEsLwbJYv+BwdLJwKVAUsXrNLlYSrke6rePS73gAvDWJ5G97JRcQf4VSdl1+hjOIJBYSi2xn VI0qFpORMGUmFROZYYpVlSoOnzCBJBEVppSeYKMpmKwrsiMSWrO5P7UqB7orDCcPuL9IDaFqvCkG xSkNws07BgUIkBdei6UuvtEm2iXP3TgUC2kN2AATrngOxCuo4gDBJuEiC8zxKwhzKAfueHJcbMoH ANmIeikewOp2AMEDB/CgNBg4AwKkFsqirSNBMcUEA/tIHCCUL8G/IgjQ/+2gwI8WQREXS8xbwU9B gkkJCqwasSBiJG5DGjwwUiHmio7dLhjlWeReHqArIBoA6UDVNQsWyBwoQIBLBZ1MlLpgoFLcUHpQ 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LajtJXNyAtVDo3ZyKNtACAAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_01BCC8EC.629C9FC0-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 13:33:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA15029; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:32:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:32:14 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:31:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970924161912_-1998365886@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: the D.O.G. Resent-Message-ID: <"iKMF03.0.Qg3.9ZNAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/902 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Peter, For those of us not familiar with D.O.G. operation it would be good if you could give a short description. Without knowing the details one would suspect that if power is delivered to the load there is a shift from the 90 degrees difference between voltage and current in the HVAC circuit. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 13:55:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA23551; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:54:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:54:58 -0700 Message-ID: <34299640.6575@keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:37:52 -0700 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gyroscope experiments References: <199709241341.PAA39464@sdn5.csc.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4vTrM3.0.sl5.WuNAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/903 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Anders! The article on the Japanese gyroscope gravity reduction experiment is at http://www.keelynet.com/gravity/gyroag.htm seeya! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 19:09:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA16166; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:08:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970924123458_2064612291@emout16.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:13:39 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Richard Austin Subject: Re: Test results, symmetry winding coil Resent-Message-ID: <"7LWgd3.0.Oy3.XUSAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/904 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: How did the D.C. resistance reduce from 7.3 to 2 ohms using the same wire? Is it now in parallel? >To all: Notice the reduction in Inductance but increase in Gauss and Force ! > >We have tested this design using two identical Guardian 11 HD INT 12VDC >solenoids. One solenoid was re wound using mirror image symmetry and the same >wire that came on the solenoid. The performance of the solenoid using the >mirror image symmetry is outstanding, far beyond the solenoid using >conventional windings. > > Resistance Inductance Current Gauss > Force > (ohms) (mH) (Amps @ 5VDC) @ 5VDC > (gms) >Mirror Image Symmetry 2.0 1.08 2.45 121.2 > 340 >Standard Winding 7.3 4.28 0.68 58.5 > 169 > >The results shown above indicate that four times more current can be used to >generate a magnetic field with mirror image symmetry winding techniques. > >The measured value of magnetic field of the mirror image symmetry >configuration, measured at the center of the ends of the solenoid, is double >that of the standard winding. The force available with a plunger in the >solenoid was also measured to be twice that of the standard configuration. > >Comments please, >Thanks, >Butch LaFonte Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 19:23:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA18557; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709250222.TAA15335@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" , "vortex" Subject: Thronson drive info Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:37:51 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cBU5c1.0.kX4.yhSAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/905 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi folks! I sent out info about the Thornson inertial drive to a number of people. Let me know if you wanted this information and I will send it to you when I get home next week. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 19:49:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA22760; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709250249.TAA21262@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "vortex" , "Free Energy" Subject: small correction to SPINDIZZY Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:56:25 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"skbTY.0.UZ5.e4TAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/906 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi folks! A small correction that does not alter the terms of my argument at all: The stored kinetic energy of a disc is K.E. = 1/2(MR^2)(w^2) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 20:18:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA02586; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:17:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:17:37 -0700 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:17:25 +1000 Message-Id: <199709250317.NAA04463@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: the D.O.G., capacitive transformer ! Resent-Message-ID: <"7c79K1.0.De.EVTAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/908 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >I guess it is something simular to the TEP 6.1x in the >capacitive area ! > Coils certainly aren't the only way to go. But the DOG is not reliant on parametrics. >Looks pretty interesting and easy to build! > Easy? Yes. Aside from the procuring the Barium crystal. But perhaps someone in a better geographical position than myself can look into cost and availablity, or suggest a substitute material with similar properties. >It is like a capacitive transformer. > You mean a "flux capacitor". Seriously, if anyone has seen anything similar the DOG in the literature, I would like to know. >Here also the question is, if you draw power form the output, is it >also drawing more power from the input ? > Well, this is a "secret" of the device, which I can only discuss, initially, with someone willing and able to build it. BTW, this is a proven system, to me. >Also, how much high voltage AC power must be generated to drive >the output ? >The outer Big capacitor has also a lower resistance when applying AC ! >So how much power has to be supplied via the HVAC generator ? > Not much. In practice, they are close coupled. >But Good idea ! > >Somebody should try it ! > I'm waiting. Let's someone do it! Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 20:18:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA02565; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:17:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:17:34 -0700 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:17:22 +1000 Message-Id: <199709250317.NAA04461@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: the D.O.G. Resent-Message-ID: <"6dCOt2.0.yd.CVTAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/907 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >I'm glad you have presented your idea to the group. It is direct and >straightforward (at least in appearance). > Thanks Fred. There are two more key points, which I will disclose later, if someone well qualified is willing to obtain the materials and build it. Sorry, but I have a prior agreement that I must observe in this regard. >The principle being as I understand it that the oscillating potential field >of the HV generator reverses the polarity of the BaTiO3 crystal without >losing energy (the crystal appearing simply as the dielectric in a cap to >the generator). > Right. >Is it the charge on the crystal (inductive process) or is it the >permittivity (parametric process)? It seems that it must be the second >becasue if charge is removed from the crystal it would affect the >generator. > Charge _can_ be removed under certain circumstances. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 20:18:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA26132; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:17:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:17:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:17:28 +1000 Message-Id: <199709250317.NAA04468@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Time (was Re: Only the 'now' exists.) Resent-Message-ID: <"HknNp1.0.CO6.JVTAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/909 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Using my model of space as discreet points, with the aether >occupying all points not otherwise occupied by matter, push >gravity can be explained by the displacement of aether by matter. > >Chuck > Yes, and in this model, as I recall, the amount of "push" relates to the volume of the shielding body. So how does one explain the fact that all objects, regardless of their volume or mass, fall at substantially the same rate? How do you explain the stronger gravitational attractors associated with higher rates of rotation? How do you explain the differing specific gravities of the elements? Your one dimensional points constitute a uniform time field, which becomes variable with the formation of matter. The variability is compensated for by gravitic flux moving forward against time through the nucleus of each atom. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 20:18:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA26145; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:17:31 +1000 Message-Id: <199709250317.NAA04475@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: TEP V7.1 Proposal circuit ! Resent-Message-ID: <"1lPGI3.0.QO6.MVTAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/910 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In any FE design two basic components are needed. One to excite the vacuum, and another to dimensionally translate and add its virtual particle flux to EMF within a "conventional" circuit. The first can be accomplished by a simple solenoid, essentially a self-embedding, contra-rotational vortex. The second by an inner bifilar coil, synchronised antiphase with the induced harmonic oscillations of the vacuum particles. IOW two drivers are needed. In this concept, the mid point of the outer solenoid is made to coincide spatially with that of the bifilar by generation a standing wave in the latter. That's the gate. Accordingly, the problem with PM's as exciters is that they cannot be frequency correlated with the collector. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 22:45:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA32185; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:45:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:45:29 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 01:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970925014413_1964456291@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: fepps@halcyon.com Subject: Re : a SPINDIZZY gif, and more explanation Resent-Message-ID: <"PL48k.0.is7.sfVAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/912 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 24/09/1997 22:12:07 , Fred Epps wrote : << Hi folks! For anyone who is trying to visualize my complex gyroscopic scheme, here is some additional information. >> Hi Gyromen, For more informations about the gyro experiment and pictures schemes and videos, you may also see at : http://members.aol.com/overunity4/html/gyrotest.htm Gyroscopicaly yours, Jean-louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 24 23:13:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA03315 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:13:25 -0700 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:13:25 -0700 X-Envelope-From: curtis.sandoval@supervalu.com Wed Sep 24 23:13:22 1997 Received: from inetgw-a.supervalu.com (firewall-user@inetgw-a.supervalu.com [208.19.191.65]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA03286 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:13:21 -0700 From: curtis.sandoval@supervalu.com Received: by inetgw-a.supervalu.com; id BAA16556; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 01:15:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from int-ns-a.supervalu.com(10.169.9.21) by inetgw-a.supervalu.com via smap (3.2) id xma016554; Thu, 25 Sep 97 01:14:58 -0500 Received: from sho-1lnsmtp (sho-1lnsmtp [10.169.1.130]) by Supervalu.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA07672 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 01:05:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: by sho-1lnsmtp(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 8625651D.0023EF35 ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 01:14:55 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SVHO@SVEXTERNAL To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <8625651D.00221CB0.00@sho-1lnsmtp> Old-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 01:13:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Test results, symmetry winding coil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: Okay, maybe i am overlooking the obvious, but could someone please give a brief description of precisely what is meant by "mirror image symmetry?" It sounds pretty straightforward, but i like to be sure. Thanks. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 00:12:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA25767; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:11:33 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Only the 'now' exists. Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:10:14 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3433d8a1.14859224@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <199709230600.XAA05234@mail1.halcyon.com> In-Reply-To: <199709230600.XAA05234@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2IXpD.0.VI6.YwWAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/913 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:34:22 -0700, Fred Epps wrote: [snip] >Yes, I did refer to frequency in the last part but I had already defined a >time measurement that did not include frequency or any particular "rate" of >time. It is primal measurement involving the counting of beats of an >arbitrary undefined frequency. Only the infinite set of counting numbers is >involved. >Imagine a measuring system without time. It cannot remember how much time >has passed between two beats. It allows you to fulfill the definition of >time without using time. If it is electronic, all it does is increase a >register by one digit when an input reaches a certain value. It is up for ^^^^ >question whether such a system still has memory-- only one number exists. >All other values are assigned a zero and do not "count". We attach it to a >black box which has an energy output. The register can do one of two >things, it can stay on zero or it can go to one. If it goes to one it is >said that time has passed. Number defines time. > >Sorry, my thinking is stuck there. > >Fred > IMO without time, the act (or process) of counting is also impossible. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 00:21:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA27037; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:21:11 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 03:19:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970925031951_-899542617@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: openway@nor.com.au Subject: About the Rodin coil experiment.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.28030.emout16.mail.aol.com.875171991" Resent-Message-ID: <"3ROjd.0.7c6.V3XAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/914 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.28030.emout16.mail.aol.com.875171991 Content-ID: <0_28030_875171991@emout16.mail.aol.com.1547> Content-type: text/plain Hi All, On 25/09/1997 05:31:46 , Peter Nielsen wrote : << In any FE design two basic components are needed. One to excite the vacuum, and another to dimensionally translate and add its virtual particle flux to EMF within a "conventional" circuit. The first can be accomplished by a simple solenoid, essentially a self-embedding, contra-rotational vortex. The second by an inner bifilar coil, synchronised antiphase with the induced harmonic oscillations of the vacuum particles. IOW two drivers are needed. >> I think that it is possible with a Rodin style coil : T.E.Bearden has said ( "Introduction to Rodin Coil design" 1996 ) : << Obviously if you hold all the B-Field inside the coils of the torus, and then put something else in the center region outside the coils, you can get some additional potential and field energy there in the center of works. You can also get similar propagation outside the coil, with effects on distant objects. Rodin is apparently going by elementary electricity concepts but augmented by excellent native intuition. What he really is doing is attempting to separate the A-potential (i.e., the magnetic vector potential A) from the B-Field, and utilize the curl-free A-potential as an independent field of nature in the central "crossover" region. It is know that it is possible, the well known Aharonov-Bohm effect depends upon precisely this separation...>> Today, According to my first series of test, I can say that this coil have some interesting spec, as indicated in the original document. << Obviously the center crossover region is active !,...A long ferrite rod placed through the center of the Rodin style coil change the value of the inductance....So, the center region in Rodin style coil is quite active...>> ( See the attached picture which shows the experiments.) You may find informations about the Rodin coil test results at : http://members.aol.com/overunity4/html/rcoil.htm You may see also a patent about EM transmission using the curl-free-A-field ( Gelinas patent ) at : http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/4432098 Sincerely, ( This mail has been sent at 07h03 GMT on 25 September 97 ) Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ --PART.BOUNDARY.0.28030.emout16.mail.aol.com.875171991 Content-ID: <0_28030_875171991@emout16.mail.aol.com.1548> Content-type: image/jpeg; name="RCOILFER.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD//gAhSW1hZ2UgQ3JlYXRlZCBieSBRViAyLjAgYWxwaGEg Nf/bAEMAFg8QExAOFhMSExgXFhogNiMgHh4gQi8yJzZORVJRTUVMSlZhfGlWXHVdSkxsk211 gISLjItUaJmjl4eifIiLhv/bAEMBFxgYIBwgPyMjP4ZZTFmGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaG hoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhv/AABEIAOQBMAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAb 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DMzXkHKKoXy0HwQhAzv/ABHG9933tmI73Lkz967Nlu6u9lLXvm/zHufmJeczifEdz5mh8EIS AZOJxEsjZZJ5XyMNNe55LhRvdcfnSEIA/9k= --PART.BOUNDARY.0.28030.emout16.mail.aol.com.875171991-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 03:49:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id DAA11111; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 03:49:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 03:49:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970925044522.006ddb58@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 04:45:22 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: A site of interest. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"sp3IX1.0.Wj2.X6aAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/915 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All.... I was doing a bit of research in preparation for my foray into TEP experimentation, and ran across this site. I found these two articles of particular interest. [pThpP3.07] [pThpP3.28] There's also mini conference regarding magnetoplasma deep space thrusters.... Best Regards, JD ------------------------------------------------------------ Read not to contradict and confute, nor believe and take for granted...but to weight and consider. -Bacon mules@palacenet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 05:15:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA13404; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 05:15:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 05:15:04 -0700 Message-ID: <01BCC9BE.0CCD94A0@art.xs4all.nl> From: Pete Art To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: the D.O.G., capacitive transformer ! Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:58:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5rHL82.0.JH3.6NbAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/916 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: You mean a "flux capacitor". Seriously, if anyone has seen anything similar the DOG in the literature, I would like to know. Hi Peter, somewhere in my brain there was a connection................ ........ YES I've seen similar design before: An article somewhere in the 20's: "Kowsky & Frost grvity-neutralizer (Hi-Freq.charged crystal expanded 800% & lifted 50 Kg)" It was in one of those Rexx-Research articles they sell. (if you need an adress of Rexx mail me) Anyway it's looks like a nice thing to build but it has to wait for me, still a lot to build first. Maybe I will get into it later. Bibi for now, Pete Art From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 07:11:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA31354; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:10:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:10:59 -0700 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: >>>>>>TIRES<<<<<< Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:06:04 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <970924024610_-1965006536@emout07.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <970924024610_-1965006536@emout07.mail.aol.com> Lines: 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"rsnJ-3.0.pf7.n3dAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/917 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >HELLO HOW IS EVERYONE..thats good to hear i have another interesting question >has anyone heard or know of any polymer that can make tires invulnerable >to anything ..?? thanks later.. I've got a NASA report around here some place on "Bullet Proof Glazing" intended for windows in locomotives (shades of the TV show "Knight Rider"). No idea what it would do to a tire, probably turn it in to a puddle of rubber... -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 07:34:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id HAA04631; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:33:21 -0700 (PDT) From: chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com Message-Id: <199709251432.KAA21184@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 10:30:55 -0400 To: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock), freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: >>>>>>TIRES<<<<<< X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.30a (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"I8ujU.0.981.jOdAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/918 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In , on 09/25/97 at 10:06 AM, bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) said: >>HELLO HOW IS EVERYONE..thats good to hear i have another interesting question >>has anyone heard or know of any polymer that can make tires invulnerable >>to anything ..?? thanks later.. >I've got a NASA report around here some place on "Bullet >Proof Glazing" intended for windows in locomotives (shades >of the TV show "Knight Rider"). >No idea what it would do to a tire, probably turn it in to a puddle of >rubber... You never know - carbon black was originally added to tires so that they wouldn't be white and it was found that it also made the rubber harder. Accidents are somestime a good thing. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 08:06:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA07527; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:06:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:06:08 -0700 From: chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com Message-Id: <199709251505.LAA23828@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 08:34:58 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <199709250317.NAA04468@nornet.nor.com.au> Cc: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: Time (was Re: Only the 'now' exists.) X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.30a (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"7Z6oG3.0.Vr1.UtdAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/919 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In <199709250317.NAA04468@nornet.nor.com.au>, on 09/25/97 at 01:17 PM, Peter Nielsen said: >>Using my model of space as discreet points, with the aether >>occupying all points not otherwise occupied by matter, push >>gravity can be explained by the displacement of aether by matter. >> >>Chuck >> >Yes, and in this model, as I recall, the amount of "push" relates to the >volume of the shielding body. So how does one explain the fact that all >objects, regardless of their volume or mass, fall at substantially the >same rate? >From what I remember of push gravity, all the effects of traditional pull gravity can be explained as well. I choose to accept that the pull gravity model is inherently correct without actually working out all the implications. There are others doing that. From what I've read, Newton though that push gravity made more sense than pull gravity. In regards to the experimental data concerning falling masses, tests have been performed only on, in the great scheme of things, relatively low density materials. I believe Pb is the densest material we can experiment on. It is not very dense when you consider a neutron star's density. While I have not given this prior thought, I would think that less dense objects would fall faster, since reorganisation of the aether is simpler when spread out over a greater volume. >How do you explain the stronger gravitational attractors >associated with higher rates of rotation? Since we are now on a different subject, I am free to use the concept of time. When an object is spinning, or moving in any fashion, it needs to constantly displace the aether. The effect of such displacement is not instantaneous across the entire lattice, it needs to propagate. As such, you can expect that localized displacement is indeed greater than the total amount of matter present in the region, effectively leaving voids which contain neither aether or matter. > How do you explain the differing specific gravities of the > elements? I can't see how this question relates here, but materials of differing energy levels will have the ability to displace aether at differing levels. Since I subscribe to string theory, I would say that a string particle (I forget the term) at *total* rest, would occupy a single point. Since it is not moving, there are not propagation effects of the aether and these particles can be spaced closer. Once they are in motion, they are subject to the propagation delays and their specific gravities will get lower. >Your one dimensional points constitute a uniform time field, which >becomes variable with the formation of matter. The variability is >compensated for by gravitic flux moving forward against time through the >nucleus of each atom. I cannot see how you can make this correlation. Observed time dilation may be nothing more than the effects of motion on the time-keeper; i.e, The clocks cannot keep accurate time when in motion. Consider the work done in the 1700's at the Royal Greenwich Observatory which led to chronometers. Clocks kept at the RGO did not keep the same time as clocks brought to sea. It was found that effects of motion would cause the clocks to lose time. Some innovative thinking solved that problem. If time dilation was Newton's idea I'm sure science would have called the clocks loosing time as conclusive evidence for it. I think you need to expand (contract?) your thinking to a much smaller scale. The nucleus of an atom is it's own world when you consider the true scale of thing. An electron is 10 orders of magnitude larger than the scales I'm talking about. Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 11:31:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA13398; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:31:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:31:00 -0700 Comments: ( Received on ftpbox.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <970925132950.ZM22546@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:29:49 -0500 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Another Good Book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"1irVD1.0.FH3.YtgAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/920 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: "The Dragon and the Unicorn" by A. A. Attanasio Clever story covering many of the events leading up to Arthur and the round table. Aside from the actual plot and characters, the author goes into detail on the creation of the universe, earth, gods, angles, demons, mankind to give the story a foundation and takes a unified theory approach to it all. Not sure if this guy surfs the news groups, but he uses many popular fringe theories to tie everything together. An identifiable theme is Tessien's standing wave ideas with respect to the big bang, resonance nodes, blackholes. Characters of mythology and religion are described as terrestrial and extra-terrestrial electromagnetic beings residing in and feeding on geomagnetic and solarmagnetic energy fields. Granted, it is a story and he uses some poetic license to fill in some gaps, but very entertaining for anyone who has had any exposure to fringe science. Even more so for a well read individual familiar with the story of Camelot, mythology in general, and past religions. Overall, very good reading. More info at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0061057797/7504-5050127-762692 -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 11:52:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA17873; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:51:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:51:44 -0700 Message-ID: Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "FREE ENERGY" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Mike Connolly" Subject: Fw: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 13:54:21 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ByDVB3.0.8N4._AhAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/921 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Date: Thursday, September 25, 1997 11:16:58 From: Mike Connolly thanks G'DAY! Mike Connolly Bulk Feed Tank Product Manager GRAIN SYSTEMS, INC. P.O. BOX 20 Assumption, IL 62510 PH: 217.226.4421 FAX: 217.226.4420 U.S. FAX: 800.800.5329 E-MAIL: mconnolly@grainsystems.com ---------- Date: Thursday, September 25, 1997 11:14:24 From: Mike Connolly To: Evan Soule'; ANTI GRAVITY just a thought if you took this device out into space on the shuttle, got it up and spinning, then released it, and if it did not "hang there in space" (remain stationary) that would prove definitively that it created its own "gravitational field" is this too simple or am i missing something? responses welcome "In the London Sunday Telegraph of 21 Sept. 1997, Robert Matthews reports that a team of Japanese scientists have spun up a gyroscope to 18000 rpm and dropped it through a distance of 63 inches in vacuo. The time taken to fall this distance was 1/25000 sec. longer than when the gyroscope was not spinning, corresponding to a weight reduction of 1 part in 7000. The effect only occurred when the gyroscope was spinning anticlockwise. The fall was timed using laser beams. The team say that this is in line with earlier findings of theirs published in 1989. "This work was done by Hideo Hayasaka and colleagues at the Faculty of Engineering, Tohoku University, Japan, together with Matsushita the Japanese multinational. Their results are reported in the journal Speculations in Science and Technology." Fact: The experimenters at Tohoku University conclude in their work that "GRAVITY BREAKS DOWN COMPLETELY." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 11:52:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA17901; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:51:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:51:50 -0700 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:49:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709251849.OAA28404@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: >>>>>>TIRES<<<<<< Resent-Message-ID: <"BUJ843.0.WN4.4BhAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/922 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 02:46 AM 9/24/97 -0400, you wrote: >HELLO HOW IS EVERYONE..thats good to hear i have another interesting question >has anyone heard or know of any polymer that can make tires invulnerable >to anything ..?? thanks later.. > >Scotty > > > I have heard of a remarkable plastic called Starlight. Last I heard about it was a few months ago in Popular Science or Mechanics. A short blurb saying the US government were testing it. I guess we can forget about it now Woody p.s. I may be interested in building the DOG. Please forward some more information. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 12:20:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA15721; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:19:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: ALL ! TEP pictures Online at www.overunity.de Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:16:48 +0100 Message-Id: <19970925211648.44f2db1c.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"uPOtt1.0.Yr3.4bhAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/923 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, as we have moved further in the=20 TEP : The Time Energy Pump project I have decided to help Jean Louis Naudin and put all the pictures and circuit diagramm also onto my server. You will find them at: www.overunity.de As I don=B4t have much time now, I also did put them just in a directory,=20 but also updated the other pages a bit. Enjoy the surfing ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 13:01:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA21940; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <970925144340.ZM22941@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:43:40 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Mike Connolly" "Fw:" (Sep 25, 2:04pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gyro Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"1GNLD3.0.hM5.MBiAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/924 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 25, 2:04pm, Mike Connolly wrote: > just a thought > if you took this device out into space on the shuttle, got > it up and spinning, then released it, and if it did not "hang there in > space" (remain stationary) > that would prove definitively that it created its own "gravitational > field" > is this too simple or am i missing something? Yes to both. To conserve bandwidth go to: http://stugyro.stanford.edu/RELATIVITY/GPB/GPBstory1.html -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 13:10:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA03397; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:09:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:09:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970925211143.007dbc50@galileo.pi.infn.it> X-Sender: jwinter@galileo.pi.infn.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:11:43 +0200 To: From: John Winterflood Subject: Fact: "GRAVITY BREAKS DOWN COMPLETELY." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"3YJws3.0.zq.wJiAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/925 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is at least the second time I have read this stupidity :- > Fact: The experimenters at Tohoku University conclude in their work that > "GRAVITY BREAKS DOWN COMPLETELY." I guess the person who originally wrote it doesn't know what "Parity" is so thought that part of the statement could just be discarded as unimportant. And then others mindlessly copy it because they can't be bothered to read the report for themselves. Next thing you know everyone will be believing it - whatever it may mean! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 13:28:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA26493; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:27:49 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970925162512_-1866414636@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com cc: harti@harti.com Subject: Re : ALL ! TEP pictures Online at www.overunity.de Resent-Message-ID: <"6KvzG3.0.qT6.1biAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/926 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 25/09/1997 21:38:14 , Stefan Hartmann wrote : << TEP : The Time Energy Pump project I have decided to help Jean Louis Naudin and put all the pictures and circuit diagramm also onto my server. >> WONDERFULL STEFAN, very good idea, my webspace will soon be full.... I would like to say THANK YOU VERY MUCH !!!! So, I am going right now to your site to download all the TEP pictures !! :-) Thanks again, jean-Louis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 13:51:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA13837; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:50:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:50:22 -0700 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: JNaudin509@aol.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Re : ALL ! TEP pictures Online at www.overunity.de Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:43:33 +0100 Message-Id: <19970925224333.454243e9.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"dGLEm.0.6O3.CwiAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/927 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 16:26 25.09.1997 -0400, JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: >On 25/09/1997 21:38:14 , Stefan Hartmann wrote : > ><< > TEP : The Time Energy Pump project > I have decided to help Jean Louis Naudin and put all > the pictures and circuit diagramm also onto my server. > >> > > >WONDERFULL STEFAN, very good idea, my webspace will soon be full.... > >I would like to say THANK YOU VERY MUCH !!!! Okay ! Did you get my TEP 7.1 circuit ? (shtep71.gif) Did you also get myother email comments about the efficiency calculations ? What is the current in the 1 OHM resistor in TEP 6.19 ? Do you have a scope GIF of it ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 16:00:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA19249; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:00:00 -0700 (PDT) From: PROTIEUS@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:59:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970925185352_554866166@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: >>>>>>TIRES<<<<<< Resent-Message-ID: <"46M2A.0.ci4.jpkAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/928 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: hey Woody... what month was this in ..i dont really read that much of popular mechanics..please send some in fo..on this "dog" thing also".. thanks Scotty From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 16:31:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA24121; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:30:19 +1000 Message-Id: <199709252330.JAA12620@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Hydronic and Rogers GIFs Resent-Message-ID: <"CdH-_1.0.nu5.YGlAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/929 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Thanks to Robin's scanner, I now have GIFs of the article on Minto's Hydronic Transmitter and a Rogers' antenna patent. I will post these privately on request. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 16:56:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA27681; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:55:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:55:48 -0700 (PDT) Sender: ralph@gateway.minimal.com Message-ID: <342AF9E7.4289F5E3@minimal.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 19:55:20 -0400 From: ralph muha Organization: minimal, limited X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: www.energyscience.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LTQQz1.0.Qm6.1elAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/930 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: http://www.energyscience.co.uk/ > > NEW ENERGY SCIENCE NEEDS NEW PHYSICS > > Physics that denies the existence of the aether offers no insight into > the energy source from which the universe was created. It offers no > destiny for spent energy radiated into outer space. It offers no > regeneration mechanism for recycling energy. It offers instead a mere > illusion of something called 'four-space', which provides no guidance > whatsoever as we confront our needs for energy in a pollution-free > environment. The only way forward is by back-tracking to see where > science has strayed and then finding the answers in the new physics of > Aether Science. > > * > > SELECT A TOPIC: > > Keynote Address: The Repression of Inventions > Tutorial Notes: Ten Short Lessons on Energy Science > Lectures: The Aspden Lectures > Essays: Energy Science Essays > Research Notes: Topical Comments on Energy Science > Bibliography: Patents and Papers by Dr. Harold Aspden > Publications: Books and Reports by Dr. Harold Aspden > Update Information: Items added in last three months > > * > > The URL of these Internet Web pages is: > http://www.energyscience.co.uk > > The author's E-Mail address is: haspden@iee.org the 'Lectures' include one devoted to Hans Coler... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 18:15:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA21683; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:15:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:15:23 -0700 Message-ID: <342B28B6.7E51@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:15:03 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY References: <199709241442.HAA13914@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"K93aL2.0.iI5.gomAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/931 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Fred Epps wrote: > > Hi Folks! > > It's been a couple of weeks since I set loose a nice crackpot idea on > the lists and it seems like you might be missing the excitement of tearing > one apart :-) I wish you would dispose of this one, it is driving me > crazy! > I've asked several people now this question and have not gotten what I > consider a satisfactory answer, so I'm presenting it in another form to the > group. > > The output torque of a gyroscope under forced precession is: > > T = IwV > > Where > > T = output torque > I = moment of inertia along gyro spin axis > w = gyro spin velocity > V = forced precession velocity > > In the ideal, friction-free situation, by Newton's laws, the rotation along > both the spin axis and the precession axis can continue forever. When a > counter torque ( -T) is applied to the output torque axis, the precession > velocity decreases, as w and I are fixed. An additional torque must be > applied to the precession axis to compensate for the countertorque, > otherwise the precession will come to a stop. > This is all basic physics that no one should have a problem with. You > MIGHT have a problem with the next part :-) > > As has been said the gyro spin velocity is fixed-- and the countertorque > being applied to the output axis can have no effect on it, as is > intuitively obvious and explained by a mechanics axiom which basically > states that a force applied at right angles to another force cannot affect > its magnitude, although it changes its direction. > But at the same time the gyro spin does contribute to the output torque, as > can be seen from the (carefully checked) equation above. > > [This is described as the nonreciprocal property of a gyro, shared with > only a few other physical systems, namely the Faraday rotation of light, > the Hall effect, and similar applications in microwave phase shifters. All > of these involve rotation of a > force at right angles without applying energy, that is they are (ideally) > passive.] > > Returning to the physical situation of a countertorque (load) applied to > the output axis... Suppose while the -T is being applied, an additional > torque is applied to the spin axis so that the original torque > > T = IwV > > is maintained. In other words w is increased so that V does not have to > decrease. It should be noted that an increased spin velocity does not > change the precession velocity because the force is applied at right angles > to the precession force. The new torque on the spin axis does not create > any countertorque on the precession axis. This is basic mechanics. > > Now lets examine this torque applied to the spin axis because this where > the ANOMALOUS ENERGY comes in :-) > It appears in a rather strange form. Energy is apparently conserved in the > system as described because the torque applied to the spin axis must be > equivalent to the countertorque according to our simple equation. > > Unfortunately for the conservation laws THE ENERGY OF THE TORQUE APPLIED TO > THE SPIN AXIS IS CONSERVED AS SPIN. > As the loading is continuous, so must the spin axis torque must be, > constantly accelerating the disc and storing energy in it according to the > equation > > E = 1/2mV^2 > > This is the principle of a flywheel, and a good portion of the original > energy can be retrieved from a spinning disc in practice, and ALL of it can > be retrieved in theory. Spin is an an energy storage mechanism and does > not dissipate energy. And, again, the countertorque applied to the output > axis has, obviously, no effect on the spin axis, being at right angles. > It is clear that the energy applied to the spin axis is conserved. > > After all this, my question is: > How is the conservation law maintained over the whole situation? The spin > energy contributes to the output torque, but loading this torque does not > dissipate the spin energy! > > Putting it bluntly, the energy debt has been paid with a rubber check! > > I believe the excess energy is derived from the force of Inertia, which is > a REAL force, and not simply a reaction force. > I suspect there is an electrical anlogy to this system but I have not been > able to come up with it yet. IDEA: Mass increases with speed. Electrons have mass. You could build a small betatron and try it out. Might work... > > Science fiction fans might note that I have named this system the > "Spindizzy" after the propulsion system in James Blish's series > "Cities In Flight". This is taking some creative liberties, because the > original spindizzy was a machine for antigravity rather than perpetual > motion-- but with one taken care of, can the other be far behind? :-) > > Fred > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 25 18:45:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA26724; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:44:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:44:58 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970925213738_37171445@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Subject: Norman F. Ramsey Resent-Message-ID: <"dcQ5P.0.LX6.PEnAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/932 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Is anyone familiar with Norman F. Ramsey's work on nuclear spin systems in pure LiF crystals? (Around 1950, more radiant energy out than put in) Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 01:09:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id BAA26082; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 01:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 01:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:31:02 +1000 Message-Id: <199709261031.UAA10890@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Re : ALL ! TEP pictures Online at www.overunity.de Resent-Message-ID: <"SMJdO3.0.QN6.MssAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/933 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 04:26 PM 9/25/97 -0400, you wrote: >On 25/09/1997 21:38:14 , Stefan Hartmann wrote : > ><< > TEP : The Time Energy Pump project > I have decided to help Jean Louis Naudin and put all > the pictures and circuit diagramm also onto my server. > >> > > >WONDERFULL STEFAN, very good idea, my webspace will soon be full.... > >I would like to say THANK YOU VERY MUCH !!!! >So, I am going right now to your site to download all the TEP pictures !! > :-) > >Thanks again, > >jean-Louis > > Jean if you are running out of web space look at my site htttp://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/seek.htm and you will find three locations that will give you more space at no cost. Geocities is great in that you don't have to have advertising on. Tripod give you 2 megs but does add advertising to it. Fortune.net will allow you six megs but also adds their advertising to the your page. hope this is of interest Geoff Egel http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 02:20:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id CAA00574; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:40:19 +1000 Message-Id: <199709261140.VAA11292@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Re : Jean Louis you can get more web space for free Resent-Message-ID: <"gt49Y3.0.s8.mstAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/934 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >> >>WONDERFULL STEFAN, very good idea, my webspace will soon be full.... >> >> >>Thanks again, >> >>jean-Louis >> >> >Jean > >if you are running out of web space look at my site > >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/seek.htm and you will find three >locations >that will give you more space at no cost. > >Geocities is great in that you don't have to have advertising on. > >Tripod give you 2 megs but does add advertising to it. > >Fortune.net will allow you six megs but also adds their advertising to the >your page. > >hope this is of interest >Geoff Egel > >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ >http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 04:55:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA01133; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:54:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:54:48 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 07:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970926075312_-1464441228@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: Re : Jean Louis you can get more web space for free Resent-Message-ID: <"ViyQ7.0.cH.6AwAq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/935 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dans un courrier date du 26/09/1997 11:19:18 , vous avez ecrit : << >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/seek.htm and you will find three >locations >that will give you more space at no cost. > >Geocities is great in that you don't have to have advertising on. > >Tripod give you 2 megs but does add advertising to it. > >Fortune.net will allow you six megs but also adds their advertising to the >your page. > >hope this is of interest >Geoff Egel > >> Thank you very much Geoff for your very helpfull information, Overunity yours, Jean-louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 05:45:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA13610; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 05:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 05:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:07:14 +1000 Message-Id: <199709261507.BAA12335@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Re :Three new pages added to my Solaris web site Resent-Message-ID: <"O-kLw.0.YK3.2vwAq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/936 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Have added three new pages to my solaris website with input from three other fellow researchers has some interesting information Geoff > >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ >http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 09:31:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA13503; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:31:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:31:25 -0700 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:28:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709261628.MAA21974@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: tires>>starlight Resent-Message-ID: <"jLj-M.0.tI3.SD-Aq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/937 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 06:59 PM 9/25/97 -0400, you wrote: >hey Woody... what month was this in ..i dont really read that much of popular >mechanics..please send some in fo..on this "dog" thing also".. > >thanks >Scotty > > >I will have to dig around for the magazine. I think I gave all the information written.All it said was that Starlite was being tested.From your interest I assume you had heard of this before. What I had heard came in third hand so I would like to get some more accurate information on it.Some of the claims for it seemed pretty far fetched. The dog thing was in response to some postings a few days ago.There seemed to be interest in a new circuit but nobody had time or inclination to build it. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 16:42:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA30363; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:41:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:41:36 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:39:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970926193825_1399325880@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Subject: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? Resent-Message-ID: <"W46mk3.0.7Q7.kW4Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/938 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I'm starting to think that people on the different lists care more about the hunt than they do about the capture. After looking at all the different attempts at overunity devices, in my opinion, only two show any real promise of becoming practical overunity devices that produce large amounts of power and show the potential to be self sustaining without any energy storage devices (battery, ect). These are the device of Mr. Bertil Werjefelt, President of Poly-Tech (USA) Corporation, and the device of Mr. Muller, owner of Muller Magnetics. Both devices are based on the same basic principle it appears. I have never spoke with Mr. Muller but I have seen a video of Mr. Werjefelt at MIT explaining his device, and I have talked at length several times on the phone with him. He strikes me as very level headed and down to Earth. His research has been on going for more than twenty years and his approach to the development of his machine has been very scientific and professional. The basic operating principle of these two devices is so simple if one takes the time look at it. In Mr. Werjefelt's design the attraction forces between the rotor and stator are balanced out buy connecting a rotor and stator operating in repulsion. In effect the two when coupled, turn as though there were no forces at work. The two seem to turn as though they were not magnets at all, the same as if the assembly was made of wood. I have built a fixture to test this principle and it works as stated. Now the first thing one wonders is, what happens when a load is applied? Well, if you turn off the repulsion section at the proper time, the attraction forces in the generator section can be made to do work. The faster the machine turns the shorter the switching time in the repulsion section, and efficiency goes up. What these machines do is, this, as we have all thought, what if we could turn off gravity for a length of time and then lift an object up and then turn gravity back on and let it do work. With magnets you can accomplish the same thing because magnets can be switched on and off as gravity can not. Rotation speed, timing, and the use of a balance section to cancel out the forces at work between the rotor and stator in the generator section, make these machine produce "excess energy" and have been tested and proved to do so, but no one builds one to disclaim or prove them to be true! Many people have built Newman machines, and other type devices, but these two machines I speak of, that show so much potential, people on the lists just seem to pass over and prefer to go on to what I some times see as technical rhetoric. It's as if they enjoy technical "namedroping" more than they do finding a source of free energy. I wonder often if the discovery of a overunity device would stop all their fun because the thrill of the hunt would be over and then what would they do? There have been many people build Newman machines, but Mr. Muller had his machine tested by square D company as well as other people and with positive overunity results. Why hasn't anyone built one of his machines? Mr. Werjefelt in a document he made available to the public, said that he wants to make the basic principles known so people could do research and he also states that there are many ways to configure the principle. If anyone wants more info. on these machines contact me at HLafonte@aol.com or if anyone would like to join me in building one of these. I have built the fixture to prove the basic concept. I plan on putting all my time and resources into these type machines so as to someday see an overunity device that runs on it's own and produces large amounts of excess energy. I thought we on the lists were on the lists for that reason anyway. I think sometime's that the builders of overunity device most often are not. Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 18:22:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA04983; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:19:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:19:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <342C5287.2325563A@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:55:43 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: SMOT Mk4 Progress Report Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4johA.0.YD1.oy5Bq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/939 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I will post the promished SMOT Mk4 prototype photos by mid week. I have been away again. The magnetic array design is new to you all, but returns to the original "5 minute SMOT". I am using plastic tubing for the ramp and ball return system. I am working on producing a plastic injection mold. The idea is to produce 2 sections (top & bottom), drop in the magnets and ball, then glue the sections together. Made of clear "See NO Batteries" plastic it should make a real interesting toy. Design size is 75 x 50 x 25mm. Should be NO problem pumping out several thousand a week. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 18:23:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA05012; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <342C4FC6.63E6A671@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:43:58 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Re: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? References: <970926193825_1399325880@emout15.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qi1c7.0.CE1.uy5Bq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/940 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > I'm starting to think that people on the different lists care more about > the hunt than they do about the capture. After looking at all the different > attempts at overunity devices, in my opinion, only two show any real promise > of becoming practical overunity devices that produce large amounts of power > and show the potential to be self sustaining without any energy storage > devices (battery, ect). These are the device of Mr. Bertil Werjefelt, > President of Poly-Tech (USA) Corporation, and the device of Mr. Muller, owner > of Muller Magnetics. Both devices are based on the same basic principle it > appears. While the devices are both electromagnetic systems, an analysis of the magnetic circuits involved shows them to be very different. > I have never spoke with Mr. Muller but I have seen a video of Mr. > Werjefelt at MIT explaining his device, and I have talked at length several > times on the phone with him. He strikes me as very level headed and down to > Earth. His research has been on going for more than twenty years and his > approach to the development of his machine has been very scientific and > professional. > The basic operating principle of these two devices is so simple if one > takes the time look at it. In Mr. Werjefelt's design the attraction forces > between the rotor and stator are balanced out buy connecting a rotor and > stator operating in repulsion. In effect the two when coupled, turn as though > there were no forces at work. The two seem to turn as though they were not > magnets at all, the same as if the assembly was made of wood. I have built a > fixture to test this principle and it works as stated. > Now the first thing one wonders is, what happens when a load is applied? > Well, if you turn off the repulsion section at the proper time, the > attraction forces in the generator section can be made to do work. The faster > the machine turns the shorter the switching time in the repulsion section, > and efficiency goes up. Turning a electromagnetic off and on requires energy. The faster you turn it off and on, the higher the energy drain (assuming it has been designed to reach saturation as required by the designed max rpm). Applying a load to the rotating rotor alters the energy balances as the rotor enters and departs the magnetic fields of the stator. This energy unbalance must be made up from the current ramps of the electromagnets. > What these machines do is, this, as we have all thought, what if we could > turn off gravity for a length of time and then lift an object up and then > turn gravity back on and let it do work. With magnets you can accomplish the > same thing because magnets can be switched on and off as gravity can not. Switching a electromagnet on and off uses energy. > Rotation speed, timing, and the use of a balance section to cancel out the > forces at work between the rotor and stator in the generator section, make > these machine produce "excess energy" and have been tested and proved to do > so, but no one builds one to disclaim or prove them to be true! Many people > have built Newman machines, and other type devices, but these two machines I > speak of, that show so much potential, people on the lists just seem to pass > over and prefer to go on to what I some times see as technical rhetoric. It's > as if they enjoy technical "namedroping" more than they do finding a source > of free energy. I wonder often if the discovery of a overunity device would > stop all their fun because the thrill of the hunt would be over and then what > would they do? > There have been many people build Newman machines, but Mr. Muller had his > machine tested by square D company as well as other people and with positive > overunity results. Why hasn't anyone built one of his machines? I asked for details of the Square D test. No reply received to date. > Mr. Werjefelt in a document he made available to the public, said that he > wants to make the basic principles known so people could do research and he > also states that there are many ways to configure the principle. > If anyone wants more info. on these machines contact me at > HLafonte@aol.com or if anyone would like to join me in building one of > these. I have built the fixture to prove the basic concept. I plan on putting > all my time and resources into these type machines so as to someday see an > overunity device that runs on it's own and produces large amounts of excess > energy. I thought we on the lists were on the lists for that reason anyway. I > think sometime's that the builders of overunity device most often are not. > > Butch LaFonte Hi Butch, I would like to review any info you have on either machine. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 18:26:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA17926; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:24:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:24:33 -0700 Message-ID: <342C1B47.2D6E@mediacity.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:29:59 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fstenger@interlaced.net CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Something from nothing] References: <342823F1.32C19599@verisoft.com.tr> <34283EC9.1BE6@interlaced.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"N-FHG1.0.rN4.F16Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/941 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frank, Yes. "the DENSITY of electromagnetic energy" does modify the speed of light". "Light speed does vary with EM energy concentration"! I go into many of the specifics in my metric relativity papers. Let me know if you want any hardcopy. Two data points which can give you a grasp of the whole luminal-to-superluminal cosmos -- the electron with aenergy of .511 MeV spins at Vc. The proton has 1/8th the radius, but some 1838 times the aenergy. [Both the electron and the proton, I have shown, are reconnected lightwaves.] Thomas G. Barnes derives a (spherical) proton superluminal spin of 860 Vc. I derive a toroidal geometry proton (like a slinky connected end-to-end) with two superluminal spins (I name a spin and twist). I predicted an outer spin of 2.53 Vc -- in agreement with some of the superluminal tunneling experiments in Germany, France and the U.S. For the fine spin, twist, I predicted a velocity of 12.9 Vc. The plasma matterverse then is spanned by two universal 'highway' or 'communications' systems. One I name e-space (for electrons) conducts signals at about Vc. The other I thus dubbed p-space (protonic) which conducts signals at 2.5Vc to 12.9Vc, and perhaps beyond. I have been searching for several years for other superluminal proton (self-connected EMG wave) modelers, but have found none in addition to myself and Thomas Barnes. [Vigier and many other theorists and experimenters have derived superluminal nucleon characteristics, but not their structures.] If you or anyone out there learns of other such models I would like to read of and credit them too. Millennium From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 18:29:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA18402; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:27:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:27:48 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:26:43 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Bismuth and Magnesium in EM Fields Resent-Message-ID: <"UOCO83.0.RV4.I46Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/943 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bismuth and Magnesium in EM Fields: So, why has Bismuth been eliminated via "Federal Law" from being used in the production of permanent magnets because of "heath issues", as used in the "very strange" experiments conducted and documented by Sparky Sweet and others? Maybe this will shed some light on that: If you know anything, email Linda and CC me. Thanks! -------------------------- ROSWELL ARTIFACTS ANALYZED (Source: Linda Moulton Howe, NEXUS, Aug-Sept/97) In the spring of 1993, Art Bell of the popular "Dreamland" radio show received a package of metal fragments in the mail from an anonymous person who claimed they were from the 1947 Roswell crash site. The mystery person said he got them from his grandfather, who was part of the cleanup crew. The metal pieces were of a variety of sizes from a ten-inch strip to square pieces less than half an inch wide. Tests of the pieces revealed that they were all made of pure aluminum -- a grade not typically used for normal industrial machining. Then the anonymous donor sent some more samples which he claimed were from the exterior of the hull of the craft. They were quite different from the first batch -- brittle, dark on one side and light on the other. Tests revealed the following curious properties: -- The pieces were made of layers of magnesium so pure that there was no trace of trace elements characteristic of Earth-manufactured magnesium, and a small amount of zinc separated by layers of bismuth. -- The bismuth/magnesium layered material emitted 60 times more positive ions than the pure magnesium being used for control purposes. -- Bismuth has the greatest Hall Effect (if a voltage is placed applied to bismuth while it is a magnetic field, a current flow is induced at 90 degrees to the voltage) and is the most diamagnetic of any metal (does not allow a magnetic field to penetrate it), so it was thought that the layered-metal material might be involved in resisting or detecting magnetic fields. When the layered material was exposed to a powerful electric current, it unexpectedly jumped around quite violently, while the control piece did not move. -- A worldwide search of scientific literature failed to turn up any reference for the layering of magnesium and bismuth. It appears that magnesium/bismuth arrangement is unknown in the scientific and metallurgic body of knowledge. Art Bell and Linda Moulton Howe are still looking for explanations and information. If you have something to add to this puzzle, contact Moulton Howe at: "LMH333@AOL.com". Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 18:37:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA18080; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:25:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:25:33 -0700 Message-ID: <342C3614.5D95@mediacity.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:24:20 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fstenger@interlaced.net CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Luminal Electron and Superluminal Proton GIFs Content-Type: multipart/appledouble; boundary="----------ad33193AE46618"; x-mac-type="47494666"; x-mac-creator="74747874" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="E&P.gif" Resent-Message-ID: <"71mib2.0.5Q4.926Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/942 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: 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fQwmCh9X1RPeiGxHUWIUKd5BjGgagp92IB9D+khKbnIBHoRf8lI7UrplrPvMHGo2LilWAH7c OGAsXtkiIa1AizzO3TU4KECqQZg8uod7TfGBV8gPGw/5yEtecDB692CIl7wYgk5yNV+84co6 +TZJLvSkL73pT4/61Kt+9aELCAA7 ------------ad33193AE46618-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 18:39:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA20968; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:39:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:39:22 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:39:17 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Over-Unity Devices Database Resent-Message-ID: <"suUxL.0.S75.8F6Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/944 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The INE is putting together a database of all the devices and machines that anyone can give us information on. Wanna help? Be a Research Contact! Adopt a device, find out truthful data and info, and email the data to me for inclusion into the INE database - in the proper format. We have 114 devices posted so far... Many incomplete data listings... Where is it? http://www.padrak.com/ine/db/devices.html Will get you there. These files are all automatically generated from one large database that exists in Excel text format. Please help! Send me data in text tab-delimited format, just like it is listed in the page for each device. One row of data. I want YOU to be the Researtch Contact Person for the device(s) you select. You can even use my mailing address [PO Box 201, Los Altos, CA 94023] and a pseudname if you need to. Questions? Email me. Thanks! Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 18:46:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA21978; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:43:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:43:29 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:42:53 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Re: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? Cc: HLafonte@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"k5dw93.0.IN5._I6Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/945 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I hereby ask for more data on these: These are the devices of: Mr. Bertil Werjefelt, President of Poly-Tech (USA) Corporation, and The device of Mr. Muller, owner of Muller Magnetics. Look at my FreEnrg email (just now) about the INE database. We do not have these yet. Thanks! Also - there are others that look good - that are also not yet listed. Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 19:06:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA25694; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:05:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:05:36 -0700 Message-ID: <342D59D6.4E3@triode.net.au> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:09:10 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? References: <970926193825_1399325880@emout15.mail.aol.com> <342C4FC6.63E6A671@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9HaOd.0.NH6.kd6Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/946 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > Turning a electromagnetic off and on requires energy. The faster you > turn it off and on, the higher the energy drain (assuming it has been > designed to reach saturation as required by the designed max rpm). > Applying a load to the rotating rotor alters the energy balances as > the rotor enters and departs the magnetic fields of the stator. This > energy unbalance must be made up from the current ramps of the > electromagnets. Turning an EM on requires energy but cant this energy be recovered when it is switched off (that is, assuming there is constant inductance)? What if you were to design a rotary system that maintained constant inductance at all times. Would there be energy expediture then? -- Maxwell. "Policemen are numbered in case they get lost!" - Spike Milligan, Last Goon Show of All From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 19:27:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA30246; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:27:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:27:16 -0700 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Thronson drive info Message-ID: <19970926.222818.2911.0.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> References: <199709250222.TAA15335@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:27:05 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"BrZO23.0.PO7.2y6Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/947 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Fred: I would be interested! Steve From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 20:50:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA06413; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:49:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:49:45 -0700 Message-ID: <342C8077.15DA945F@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:11:43 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server Freenrg Subject: Re: SMOT Mk4 Progress Report References: <970926232415_711414870@emout09.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wwByg1.0.0a1.O98Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/948 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Puthoff@aol.com wrote: > > But what about the kits we ordered? > > Hal Puthoff Hi Hal, The hand made SMOT Mk4 kits are still approx on schedule for mid Oct shipment. The plastic injection bulk manuf units will be SMOT Mk5 units. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 20:55:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA23612; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <342C81A0.80ADB549@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:16:40 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server Freenrg Subject: Re: SMOT Mk4 Progress Report References: <342C5287.2325563A@microtronics.com.au> <342C639E.796D@math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WTair.0.pm5.xD8Bq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/949 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > > > I am working on producing a plastic injection mold. The idea is to > > produce 2 sections (top & bottom), drop in the magnets and ball, then > > glue the sections together. Made of clear "See NO Batteries" plastic > > it should make a real interesting toy. Design size is 75 x 50 x 25mm. > > Should be NO problem pumping out several thousand a week. > > > > Not to be whiny, but how about pumping out just one, and > sending it to me :-). Is the above degree of sophistication > really needed to produce the few scientific demo units you > promised to Tinsley, Little, and myself? I you check the SMOT Mk4 schedule, you will see that I am sending you a unit. > Not to be whiny^2, but the oldest SMOT posting I happen to > have is from Mar 21, 1997, which by my count places thre SMOT > "discovery" at 7 months ago. Yet there has been no demo unit > forthcoming from you. This is not to ignore the fact that you > have been doing a great amount of SMOT activity, but I > respectfully request that you consider shipping those few > proof-of-priniple units, at least, before building the SMOT empire. > There may be a mundane explantion lurking there, which would > come to light all the sooner if a few working versions were delivered > to scientists for study. > > -- > Barry Merriman Hi Barry, 7 months seems like a small time in going from an idea to mass reproducable product. How is the Hot Fusion Research going? Shipping soon? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 21:05:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA09502; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:04:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:04:52 -0700 Message-ID: <342C83FD.BCC45E39@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:26:45 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Re: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? References: <970926193825_1399325880@emout15.mail.aol.com> <342C4FC6.63E6A671@microtronics.com.au> <342D59D6.4E3@triode.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lOlPg2.0.MK2.YN8Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/950 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Maxwell wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > Turning a electromagnetic off and on requires energy. The faster you > > turn it off and on, the higher the energy drain (assuming it has been > > designed to reach saturation as required by the designed max rpm). > > Applying a load to the rotating rotor alters the energy balances as > > the rotor enters and departs the magnetic fields of the stator. This > > energy unbalance must be made up from the current ramps of the > > electromagnets. > > Turning an EM on requires energy but cant this energy be recovered when > it is switched off (that is, assuming there is constant inductance)? > > What if you were to design a rotary system that maintained constant > inductance at all times. Would there be energy expediture then? > > -- > Maxwell. Hi Maxwell, I believe constant inductance infers constant reluctance of the magnetic circuits involved. As moving rotors cause reluctance variations, it is hard to see how a system which delivers external work could have constant inductance / reluctance. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 21:20:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA12475; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:20:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:20:28 -0700 Message-ID: <342C8944.2E554EA8@sky.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:19:17 -0500 From: Jerod Weaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: fstenger@interlaced.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Luminal Electron and Superluminal Proton GIFs References: <342C3614.5D95@mediacity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fobOR1.0.p23.Ac8Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/951 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I would like some information on plasma's that can be created using a Van de Graff Generator. Thankyou Sincerely, Jerod Weaver From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 21:32:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA15492; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:32:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:32:31 -0700 Message-ID: <342C8A6E.1C082598@microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:54:14 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: List Server Freenrg Subject: Re: SMOT Mk4 Progress Report References: <342C5287.2325563A@microtronics.com.au> <342C639E.796D@math.ucla.edu> <342C81A0.80ADB549@microtronics.com.au> <342C8ADB.68C@math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ip_4j2.0.rn3.Tn8Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/952 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > 7 months seems like a small time in going from an idea to mass > > reproducable product. > > > > How is the Hot Fusion Research going? Shipping soon? > > > > We've got a demo unit set aside for you, which has been looking > for a good home. Due to unavoidable overheads, you will have > to send us $10 Billion dollars prior to delivery, however. :-) > > -- > Barry Merriman At $10 Billion, I am sure every home on the block will want one. What a deal!!!!!!!!!!!! When can you ship? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 21:57:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA20542; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:57:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:57:13 -0700 Message-ID: <342C91E4.62840AD9@sky.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:56:04 -0500 From: Jerod Weaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnetic Distortion References: <342C5287.2325563A@microtronics.com.au> <342C639E.796D@math.ucla.edu> <342C81A0.80ADB549@microtronics.com.au> <342C8ADB.68C@math.ucla.edu> <342C8A6E.1C082598@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XOcZA.0.s05.d89Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/953 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I was wondering if anyone had the plans for a device that would be somewhat portable, somewhat compact and able to produce a very large very intence magnetic field in a charge up and then pulse type fashion. Thank you for any help that anyone may offer. Sincerely, Jerod Weaver From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 23:08:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA09192; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970926235152.00bfc7cc@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:51:52 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: Magnetic Distortion In-Reply-To: <342C91E4.62840AD9@sky.net> References: <342C5287.2325563A@microtronics.com.au> <342C639E.796D@math.ucla.edu> <342C81A0.80ADB549@microtronics.com.au> <342C8ADB.68C@math.ucla.edu> <342C8A6E.1C082598@microtronics.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9n4Xj3.0.WF2.-AABq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/954 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jerod, At 23:56 9/26/97 -0500, you wrote: >I was wondering if anyone had the plans for a device that would be >somewhat portable, somewhat compact and able to produce a very large >very intence magnetic field in a charge up and then pulse type >fashion. Thank you for any help that anyone may offer. > > Sincerely, > Jerod Weaver An electromagnet, made from a few turns of copper tubing, which is walloped by a big current pulse....the energy being provided by a capacitor bank, or a homopolar generator...is a traditional and effective way to produce intense magnetic pulses. A capacitor bank would probably be most portable, but without knowing more about the characteristics of the pulse that you desire, I can't give more than a general answer. A coil of a few turns, and very low impedance, coupled to a capacitor bank of say 2 to 35 joules, at voltages between a few hundred to a couple of thousand volts, is the neighborhood most magnet treaters live in...if I remember correctly. At the smaller end of the range such devices can be the size of a large PC computer tower. Take a look at the plans available from Amazing Devices, aka Information Unlimited. They had plans for a power supply that might be suitable, and a switch capable of handling the load, a do-it-yourself trigatron. It wasn't an elegant device, but looked practical, and easily buildable. I think it was billed as a high power laser supply, but I'm not sure. Call Walker Scientific in Worcester MA, or RFL Industries in Boonton NJ, for a sales brochure, to better see what these devices look like. Best Regards, JD ------------------------------------------------------------ Read not to contradict and confute, nor believe and take for granted...but to weight and consider. -Bacon mules@palacenet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 26 23:50:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA15548; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <342CAC5E.B179C8CB@sky.net> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:49:03 -0500 From: Jerod Weaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Distortion References: <342C5287.2325563A@microtronics.com.au> <342C639E.796D@math.ucla.edu> <342C81A0.80ADB549@microtronics.com.au> <342C8ADB.68C@math.ucla.edu> <342C8A6E.1C082598@microtronics.com.au> <3.0.1.32.19970926235152.00bfc7cc@palacenet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4xUlL3.0.qo3.RoABq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/955 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: JD, Thanks for replying. The use of this pulse is for Electronic interference tests on computer hardware. Basicly it is this: I have a couple of computers setting around and was wondering about how much magnetic energy it would take to take one of them and make it virtualy braindead. I want a device that will be fairly inexpensive to make and use. I need it to be fairly compact. I have been to Information Unlimited's page already and have found there device to be much to expensive and much to large for my application. Where could I get a capacitor that would create such a pulse? About how much would it cost? Thank you Sicerely, Jerod Weaver From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 01:31:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id BAA25331; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 02:37:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: List Server Freenrg Subject: Re: SMOT Mk4 Progress Report In-Reply-To: <342C81A0.80ADB549@microtronics.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"U2Prj3.0.ZB6.bHCBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/956 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >>Barry Merriman wrote: ..snip.. >>> Not to be whiny^2, but the oldest SMOT posting I happen to >>> have is from Mar 21, 1997, ..snip.. >>Greg Watson wrote: >>7 months seems like a small time in going from an idea to mass >>reproducable product. >> >>How is the Hot Fusion Research going? Shipping soon? >> Greg Watson Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson Touche~ Greg :) Barry, Really wish I could meet you in a bar and 'bet' you on the position of the ball.... Thanks for keeping 'Everyone' honest though. It really is quite a skull scratcher when you yourself see it.. 1] I'll be damned (already by the wife!:) (local trouble) 2] Greg ... go,go,go.. :) 3] Barry .. Keep us ALL honest! We ALL will WIN! -=se=- ps. (wife) won't let me buy one. :( Let's go rotary in 1998!! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 02:55:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA28261; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 02:55:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 02:55:32 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:45:59 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Bismuth and Magnesium in EM Fields Resent-Message-ID: <"6TlnD1.0.8v6.JWDBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/957 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Patrick Baily wrote: > Bismuth and Magnesium in EM Fields: > > So, why has Bismuth been eliminated via > "Federal Law" from being used in the > production of permanent magnets because of > "heath issues", as used in the "very strange" > experiments conducted and documented by > Sparky Sweet and others? That's *barium* as in barium ferrite in the magnets, and the notion that it's banned may even be a rumor, but I don't know. Bismuth has a fairly low toxicity (as dust, like most metals, it isn't good for you to inhale). Q: What the heck do tummy ache remedies and UFO engines have in common? A: They both absorb 47 times their *weight*... ...but seriously folks... We eat compounds of bismuth in popular G-I distress remedies like Pepto-Bismol. By the way, a PB tablet will repel magnetic fields nearly as strongly as a pure bismuth pellet. Hmm. Pepto-BISmol. Milk of MAGNESIa. Take a little sip of one, then the other, then the first, then the second, etc. Now walk through a metal detector. Voila. :) Those two preparations might also be used as an antedote for the after-effects of one of those horrible *barium* enemas. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 03:04:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA31530; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 03:04:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 03:04:32 -0700 Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 22:27:24 +1000 Message-Id: <199709271227.WAA22505@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Re :Check out David Hamel updated information (interesting) Resent-Message-ID: <"RHqr72.0.Oi7.leDBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/958 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Have added three new pages to my solaris website with input from three other fellow researchers Have just added some drawings received by email onto my web site about David Hamel expect further information very shortly. http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/hamel2.htm Geoff > >http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ >http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 03:08:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA00184; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 03:08:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 03:08:34 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:05:47 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Bismuth and Magnesium in EM Fields Resent-Message-ID: <"1ugfC1.0.m2.WiDBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/959 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Patrick Baily wrote: > -- Bismuth has the greatest Hall Effect (if a > voltage is placed applied to bismuth while it > is a magnetic field, a current flow is induced > at 90 degrees to the voltage) and is the most > diamagnetic of any metal (does not allow a > magnetic field to penetrate it), [snip] Magnetic fields go through bismuth, but they do tend to be repelled slightly. For industrial strength diamagnetism: superconductors - *perfect* 100% diamagnetism, as opposed to the very small percentage for bismuth metal. Those tests on the infamous bis-mag sample are pretty interesting. To exploit the diamagnetism in a way that might make some sense, how about rotating the samle in a field - or rotating the field? I think the best way to do this would be rather similar to the Tampere setup. You'd have a flattened ring of the layered material. Magnets would be placed radially inside and outside the ring, pole faces N-S through the plane of the ring, like wheel spokes within and outside too. Let's see, left hand rule...N poles facing the inside edge of the ring, S poles facing the outside edge, rotate counterclockwise - the electrons should crowd up (Hall effect) on the upper surface(s) of the layers. Is that right? Rotating the fields should be the same thing, but I think maybe that homopolar rule would come into effect here - rotating magnets doesn't produce current, but rotating the disc (or the disc and magnets together) does. Ayway, induce an EMF in the ring along the vertical axis, and see what happens. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 03:14:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id DAA03499; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 03:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 03:14:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <342CAC5E.B179C8CB@sky.net> References: <342C5287.2325563A@microtronics.com.au> <342C639E.796D@math.ucla.edu> <342C81A0.80ADB549@microtronics.com.au> <342C8ADB.68C@math.ucla.edu> <342C8A6E.1C082598@microtronics.com.au> <3.0.1.32.19970926235152.00bfc7cc@palacenet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:11:15 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Magnetic Distortion Resent-Message-ID: <"h1qTM3.0.Zs.dnDBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/960 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jerod - If http://www.foundrygroup.com/cbrush/ is still around, I think they have what you're looking for. Huge pulses from a Very Large Tesla coil power supply are directd at various computer and electronic components to test their durability. My favorite is the hard drive test. The photos are great. ;) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 08:06:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id IAA21966; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970927090116.007753f0@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:01:16 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: Magnetic Distortion In-Reply-To: <342CAC5E.B179C8CB@sky.net> References: <342C5287.2325563A@microtronics.com.au> <342C639E.796D@math.ucla.edu> <342C81A0.80ADB549@microtronics.com.au> <342C8ADB.68C@math.ucla.edu> <342C8A6E.1C082598@microtronics.com.au> <3.0.1.32.19970926235152.00bfc7cc@palacenet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"da3M2.0.1N5.R3IBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/961 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 01:49 9/27/97 -0500, Jerod wrote: > Where >could I get a capacitor that would create such a pulse? About how much >would it cost? Thank you Although it's not the ideal type of capacitor for pulse applications, the bulk storage capacitors from large SMPS power supplies will work. The capacitors are rated from 200 to 450 VDC ...400VDC are very common, that's what I'd look for. Then possibly connect two in series for an 800VDC capacitor (put a small, say 100K 3W resistor across each capacitor to insure the voltage divides equally) J=0.5 (CV^2) so increasing the voltage is usually better than increasing the capacitance. Switching is a problem. A very large relay, like a motor contactor, will work for a while. The contacts will eventually burn up, and make your results variable. You can sometimes pick up big relays quite cheap, if you do some scrounging. If you don't need a high pulse repetition rate, you could charge the caps with a voltage multiplier directly from the AC line. Please use interlocks, fuses...and an isolation transformer would be nice. Although the output from the capacitor bank will just as easily kill you, it's usually the AC line stuff that people run afoul of. A relay that connects a large "bleeder" resistor across the cap bank when the power is off, or an interlock is opened, is a good idea. I built a magnet treater along these lines, which works well despite the horrendous losses in using a relay to switch the capacitor bank. Heh! It you really want to fry a PC make the coil out of copper plumbing, and put the system _inside_ the coil. You can approximately calculate the peak magnetic field strength generated using the solenoid formula. Throw a few ohms into the electrical circuit when you calculate the peak current, to account for the capacitor's internal resistance and that of the relay contacts. Oh, I used (10) 1000uf 400 volt caps, connected for a total of 5000uf at 800VDC. Charged to 600VDC by means of a voltage multiplier, which is adjusted at it's input by a variac. The relay is a 30HP motor-rated contactor with _large_ silver cad-oxide contacts. The three sets of contacts are connected in parallel. The relay has survived for around a hundred shots, and it still looks pretty good. The finished unit is a bit larger than a bread box. One other thing...the mechanical forces generated, especially at the coil, are considerable. Build it strong, and be wary of flying parts when you fire it off. Where can you get the caps?? Hmm....try Astro Marketing (a surplus sales house) in Melbourne FL. or Surplus Sales Center in Kerney NE. and there's also Fair Radio Sales in Lima OH. Those are the places that come immediately to mind. I have found a few good surplus disposal companies on the internet too. Try using and searching with various keywords. Best Regards, JD PS if you simply want to fry a PC...have you tried using one of those personal protection devices...a stun gun? The EMI they generate could be enhanced with various add ons....a little dipole antenna, or a coil with a spark gap. Just a thought. ------------------------------------------------------------ Read not to contradict and confute, nor believe and take for granted...but to weight and consider. -Bacon mules@palacenet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 08:51:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id IAA26279; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:51:04 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970927115023_1964698684@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Subject: Muller Magnetics web address (From Butch) Resent-Message-ID: <"DHGIw.0.PQ6.YjIBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/962 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I have been flooded with requests for info. on Mr Muller and Mr. Bertil Werjefelt. I will get to them all, but in the mean time, Mr. Muller's web site is: http://www.aa.net/~mwm/magnet/mmtechpro1.html Please read it all, it is a very interesting design. I will be scaning the documents I have from Mr. Werjefelt to put on a web site. Let me know if you have any questions. Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 09:17:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA29532; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:16:51 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970927121612_1890236942@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? Resent-Message-ID: <"wx92x3.0.LD7.m5JBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/963 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dr. Bailey, I'm putting together info. now to be scanned so I can send it over the net. I will get back to you soon. Also see my posts on the lists today. Thanks, Butch LaFonte From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 10:28:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA15446; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:28:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:28:14 -0700 Message-ID: <342D417A.1CCB@darknet.net> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:25:14 -0400 From: Steve Reply-To: darklord@darknet.net Organization: DarkNet Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Existence Of "Less-Than-Whole" Electronic Charges Confirmed At The Weizmann Institute Of Science Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2bQ-51.0.An3.i8KBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/964 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: hey everyone.. I'm not sure if this would be of interest to anyone on the list, because it's not free energy related, but I found it somewhat interesting anyway. This was from ScienceDaily.. -- Existence Of "Less-Than-Whole" Electronic Charges Confirmed At The Weizmann Institute Of Science REHOVOT, Israel - September 22, 1997 - Researchers at the Weizmann Institute of Science have provided the first unambiguous evidence that electrons can behave in an intriguing way that seems to defy common sense. An electron is a tiny particle that carries the smallest negative charge in nature. Yet a daring theory of physics developed 15 years ago argues that under certain conditions, an electric current behaves as if it were made up of fractions of electronic charges. In an experiment described in the September 11 issue of Nature, Weizmann Institute physicists measured fractional charges one-third that of an electron. "Mind-boggling as this may seem, this phenomenon is real," says study author Rafael de-Picciotto. "Of course, electrons don't split into fragments in an electric current, but under certain conditions it is indeed possible to measure a charge smaller than that of an electron." The research team that conducted this experiment included de-Picciotto, Dr. Mikhail Reznikov, Prof. Mordehai Heiblum, Dr. Vladimir Umansky, Gregori Bunin and Dr. Diana Mahalu. Intuition vs. Reality Ever since American physicist Robert Millikan first measured the charge of an electron 80 years ago, this value has been widely regarded as a basic unit of electric charge. Scientists have consequently come to view electrons that make up an electric current as a flow of negatively charged, indivisible "balls." A current made up of fractions of an electronic charge, therefore, would seem a counter-intuitive idea, just as it would be absurd to describe a crowd made up of "less-than-whole" people or street traffic made up of "less-than-whole" cars. However, if electrons are always regarded as "whole," it is extremely difficult to understand and describe their behavior under certain conditions. For example, some particular instances of this behavior, as in a phenomenon known as the fractional quantum Hall effect, observed in a strong magnetic field, remain unexplained. In 1982, physicist Robert Laughlin of the United States proposed a theory that explained this effect and provided a very simple way of describing highly complex interactions between electrons. However, this explanation came at a "cost": the theory made the bizarre assumption that an electric current can be made up of odd-denominator fractions of electronic charges - one-third, one-fifth, one-seventh, etc. - of an electron. In the new experiment, Weizmann Institute scientists designed a sophisticated system to measure such fractional electric charges, should they exist. The system makes it possible to measure so-called "shot noise." In day-to-day environment, this noise results from random variations in the number and velocity of electrons and causes popping sounds in radio receivers and snow effects in television pictures. Under special laboratory conditions, "shot noise" can be analyzed to reveal the make-up of the electric current. This is possible because the noise has "ripples" left by the flow of electrons in a conductor. The size of each "ripple" is proportional to the unit of electric charge: the smaller the ripple, the smaller the charge, and vice versa. The scientists passed an electric current through a semiconductor immersed in a high magnetic field, under conditions in which the fractional quantum Hall phenomenon is observed. They used sophisticated equipment to eliminate all extraneous sources of noise. The "shot noise" made by the current was then amplified and measured. It turned out to be made of charges one-third that of an electron. "This is a beautiful manifestation of the strength of the theoretical methods used to predict such a counter-intuitive phenomenon," says Prof. Heiblum. The scientists' next challenge is to create conditions for the emergence of even smaller charges, one-fifth of an electron, and to measure these charges. This will require even greater refinement of the system because these tiny charges make smaller ripples that are consequently more difficult to measure. This work was partly supported by the Israel Science Foundation and Austria's Ministry of Science, Research and Art. The scientists are members of the Weizmann Institute's Condensed Matter Physics Department. They conducted the research at the Institute's Joseph H. and Belle Braun Center for Submicron Research. The Weizmann Institute of Science is a major center of scientific research and graduate study located in Rehovot, Israel. Its 2,400 scientists, students and support staff are engaged in more than 850 research projects across the spectrum of contemporary science. -- Any comments on this? Anyone heard of this effect before in other research? ttyl -Steve -- Steve (aka DaRkLoRD) | darklord@darknet.net UIN: 2149500 | www.darknet.net/darklord DarkNet Technologies: http://www.darknet.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 10:52:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA18277; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:51:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:51:45 -0700 Message-ID: <342D5852.51F6@mediacity.com> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:02:42 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Little CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Soliton structures are stable References: <199709271611.LAA09269@natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mWsUC3.0.GT4.mUKBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/965 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >>Anyone know of any new hydrogen atom structures out there? >"Check out Mills' stuff at > >http:www.blacklightpower.com > >Either he's on to the biggest thing in the world or he's into the >biggest delusion I've ever seen." Scott, He's onto both. His foundation, his physics, is meaningless. But his experimentally-justified imaginations -- hydronic fractional state (which he names hydrino state) intermediaries to the neutronic state -- are ballpark correct, as are his aenertia (spectra) predictions. I go into about an order of magnitude more structural and foundational detail than Mills in my "New Hydrogen Atom" which will be released in two weeks. That doesn't change the accuracy of his predictions -- that hydrogen spectra ABOVE the Lyman series do exist, and they are in the extreme ultraviolet to X-ray to gamma regions ... I am still seeking perceptive frontier theorists out there who have understood and visualized the superluminal structures of the proton, and thus neutron. This is a prerequisite to accurate aether-dynamic models of nuclear structures and interactions. Anyone else out there who has modeled the proton? to our World Renaissance, and the death of covert physics. Millennium From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 11:21:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA21618; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:19:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:19:36 -0700 Message-ID: <342D4DF5.E7B38B3E@sky.net> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:18:29 -0500 From: Jerod Weaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Distortion References: <342C5287.2325563A@microtronics.com.au> <342C639E.796D@math.ucla.edu> <342C81A0.80ADB549@microtronics.com.au> <342C8ADB.68C@math.ucla.edu> <342C8A6E.1C082598@microtronics.com.au> <3.0.1.32.19970926235152.00bfc7cc@palacenet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SUK4S.0.hH5.tuKBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/966 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Sir, I have access to 400vdc 1500uf caps from Information umlimited will these work? How large should the copper tube be? Would ten windings be enough? Is it alright to use PVC to wind around? Sorry for all of the questions and I thankyou for you help. Where could I get a Voltage multiplier that would charge these caps? Thanks Again Sicerely, Jerod Weaver From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 12:41:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA18468; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970927133702.00bf16d4@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:37:02 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: Magnetic Distortion In-Reply-To: <342D4DF5.E7B38B3E@sky.net> References: <342C5287.2325563A@microtronics.com.au> <342C639E.796D@math.ucla.edu> <342C81A0.80ADB549@microtronics.com.au> <342C8ADB.68C@math.ucla.edu> <342C8A6E.1C082598@microtronics.com.au> <3.0.1.32.19970926235152.00bfc7cc@palacenet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"CUDcm.0.NW4.75MBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/967 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jerrod...All, At 13:18 9/27/97 -0500, Jerod wrote: > I have access to 400vdc 1500uf caps from Information umlimited >will these work? Yes, those should do nicely. >How large should the copper tube be? Would ten >windings be enough? Is it alright to use PVC to wind around? I use 1/4 to 5/16 inch soft copper tube. (I fill it with sand before bending it so it won't kink, then pour out the sand.) The number of windings isn't critical since you can adjust the voltage. I use three to six turns on my the magnet treater. Ten turns should work . PVC works for me. To many turns will increase the impedance of the coil and reduce the peak current. Eventually you'll end up reducing the strength of the field, if everything else if fixed. The total flux in a magnetic circuit=NI/R N is the number of turns, I is the current in the turns, and R is the reluctance of the magnetic path. >Sorry for >all of the questions and I thankyou for you help. Where could I get a >Voltage multiplier that would charge these caps? Questions? No problem! Well, you could build it, it's not difficult or expensive. Or if you'd rather, you could use the front end of a switching supply. Find one with a strappable (120/240) input. When it's connected for 120VAC input it's configured as a doubler, which will supply around 300VDC. Small power supplies, like 30 Watt units, will work fine (not universal input 85-265VAC units, though, as they have a full wave input.) You should have a resistor between the charging source and the capacitor bank to limit the charging and short circuit current. The coil shorts the cap charging supply when the relay is closed. A 20W 10k resistor should work ok if you use a 300VDC source to charge the capacitors. Maybe a 5W would be ok...since in operation it's duty cycle is low. Also you might like to peruse this great site for ideas Have fun, but Please be careful! Best Regards, JD ------------------------------------------------------------ Read not to contradict and confute, nor believe and take for granted...but to weight and consider. -Bacon mules@palacenet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 13:13:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA05445; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:13:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:13:04 -0700 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <342CAC5E.B179C8CB@sky.net> <342C5287.2325563A@microtronics.com.au> <342C639E.796D@math.ucla.edu> <342C81A0.80ADB549@microtronics.com.au> <342C8ADB.68C@math.ucla.edu> <342C8A6E.1C082598@microtronics.com.au> <3.0.1.32.19970926235152.00bfc7cc@palacenet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:12:43 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Magnetic Distortion Resent-Message-ID: <"YG5MZ2.0.pK1.EZMBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/968 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >If http://www.foundrygroup.com/cbrush/ is still around, I think they have It turns out that this site is maintained by Charles Brush, who is the great grandson of Charles Brush (a pioneer in the field of arc lighting), whose studies of gravitation were cited recently on this list by Fred Epps... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 13:20:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA23637; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:20:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:20:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <342D417A.1CCB@darknet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:19:59 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: Existence Of "Less-Than-Whole" Electronic Charges Confirmed At The Weizmann Institute Of Science Resent-Message-ID: <"FAkDJ1.0.Dn5.tfMBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/969 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >-- >Existence Of "Less-Than-Whole" >Electronic Charges Confirmed At The >Weizmann Institute Of Science > >REHOVOT, Israel - September 22, 1997 - Researchers at the Weizmann >Institute of Science have provided the first unambiguous evidence that >electrons can behave in an intriguing way that seems to defy common >sense. >An electron is a tiny particle that carries the smallest negative charge >in nature. >Yet a daring theory of physics developed 15 years ago argues that under >certain conditions, an electric current behaves as if it were made up of >fractions of electronic charges. > >In an experiment described in the September 11 issue of Nature, Weizmann >Institute physicists measured fractional charges one-third that of an >electron. > >[...] >-- > >Any comments on this? Anyone heard of this effect before in other >research? I recently discovered Harold Aspden's website... the 'Appendix to Lecture No. 1' is titled "The Case for the Sub-Electron" and was published in Jan '87 see http://www.energyscience.co.uk/le01app.htm r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 14:19:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA28388; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:19:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <342CAC5E.B179C8CB@sky.net> <342C5287.2325563A@microtronics.com.au> <342C639E.796D@math.ucla.edu> <342C81A0.80ADB549@microtronics.com.au> <342C8ADB.68C@math.ucla.edu> <342C8A6E.1C082598@microtronics.com.au> <3.0.1.32.19970926235152.00bfc7cc@palace Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:16:07 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Magnetic Distortion Resent-Message-ID: <"eajxw2.0.Rx6.8XNBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/970 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Ralph Muha wrote: > It turns out that this site is maintained by > Charles Brush, who is the great grandson of > Charles Brush (a pioneer in the field of arc > lighting), whose studies of gravitation were > cited recently on this list by Fred Epps... I was going to mention that, but Charles has no love for the fringe - he works with big coils for the engineering and the sparks, but doesn't want to hear about "free energy", and seems to be a bit embarrassed or annoyed by the attention his great grandfather's work attracts from people like 'us'. ;) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 14:38:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA17444; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:38:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:38:00 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:42:20 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: MULTI-CORROBORATION OF THE GYROSCOPIC PARTICLE Resent-Message-ID: <"G3cu91.0.OG4.toNBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/972 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: MULTI-CORROBORATION OF THE GYROSCOPIC PARTICLE For many years I have taught that an "electron" was comprised of tremendous numbers of Gyroscopic Particles. An "electron" can be stopped by other materials --- not so with magnetic field particles which are Gyroscopic Particles and represent the Basic Building Blocks of ALL Matter. Electric current itself is composed of Gyroscopic Particles which come from the Source of the current produced. MY LIFE'S WORK IS NOW BEING PROVEN FROM MANY DIFFERENT SOURCES, e.g., THE INERTIA/GRAVITY EXPERIMENT BY JAPANESE SCIENTISTS, THE GENERATION OF MATTER FROM COLLIDING LASER BEAMS BY STANFORD SCIENTISTS, AND NOW THE REPORT FROM ISRAELI SCIENTISTS OF THE "ELECTRON" BEING COMPRISED OF SMALLER CHARGED PARTICLES. ALL OF THESE PHENOMENA ARE OCCURRING AS A RESULT OF THE GYROSCOPIC PARTICLE COMPOSITION OF ALL MATTER IN ACCORDANCE WITH E=MC^2. I refer the reader to my life's work first published in 1984 [THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN] available in libraries across the country. Joseph Westley Newman ______________________________________ Addendum comments: I have personally known Joseph Newman for 14 years. I edited his book in 1984 and I have come to realize the breadth and scope of his Theory of the Gyroscopic Particle which goes far beyond the single application of the (electromagnetic) "energy machine." My first understanding of one aspect of his Theory related to Magnetic Attraction and Repulsion. However, the Theory of the Gyroscopic Particle also applies to a fundamental mechanical understanding of Electricity, Light, Heat, Inertia, Gravity, Planetary Motion, Weather, and Quantum Mechanics. ONE FUNDAMENTAL UNIT -- The Gyroscopic Particle -- can mechanically explain ALL of the above phenomena. All Mass/Energy in the universe is comprised of this fundamental, mechanical unit. In fact, the title of his book "THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN" only superficially relates to his (electro)magnetic invention. By the time one has read Joseph Newman discussions on Astronomy (Chapter 19), it becomes clear that the REAL significance of the book's title is the following, as he states on page 140: "50. All natural motion (of planets, asteroids, stars, galaxies, etc.) in the Universe is the result of the movement of the basic gyroscopic-action-entity which comprises all Matter. This basic gyroscopic-action-entity prevails throughout our entire Universe and, in a mechanical sense, this gyroscopic-action-entity electromagnetically couples the Universe into a single entity or 'universal ENERGY MACHINE!' "The basic gyroscopic-action-entity comprises ALL Matter: from the atom to the molecule to the everyday materials which surround us." Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "Someday we'll understand the whole thing as one single marvelous vision that will seem so overwhelmingly simple and beautiful that we may say to each other - 'Oh, how could be have been so stupid for so long? How could it have been otherwise!'" --- JOHN ARCHIBALD WHEELER From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 14:38:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA00231; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:37:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: josephnewman@mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:42:17 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Existence Of "Less-Than-Whole" Electronic Charges Confirmed At The Weizmann Institute Of Science Resent-Message-ID: <"Q6AA-1.0.S3.koNBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/971 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >hey everyone.. I'm not sure if this would be of interest to anyone on >the list, because it's not free energy related, but I found it somewhat >interesting anyway. This was from ScienceDaily.. > >-- >Existence Of "Less-Than-Whole" >Electronic Charges Confirmed At The >Weizmann Institute Of Science > >REHOVOT, Israel - September 22, 1997 - Researchers at the Weizmann >Institute of Science have provided the first unambiguous evidence that >electrons can behave in an intriguing way that seems to defy common >sense. >An electron is a tiny particle that carries the smallest negative charge >in nature. >Yet a daring theory of physics developed 15 years ago argues that under >certain conditions, an electric current behaves as if it were made up of >fractions of electronic charges. snip-- >The Weizmann Institute of Science is a major center of scientific >research and >graduate study located in Rehovot, Israel. Its 2,400 scientists, >students and >support staff are engaged in more than 850 research projects across the >spectrum of contemporary science. >-- > >Any comments on this? Anyone heard of this effect before in other >research? > >ttyl > >-Steve >-- Dear Steve, Thanks for your informative post. The Gyroscopic Particle is far smaller than the electron and it does carry a charge. The above information is further corroboration of the research conducted by Joseph Newman over the past 30 years. Best regards, Evan Soule' From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 14:38:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA17613; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:38:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:38:48 -0700 Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:38:42 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: SAS has a new web-forum Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"qpanP1.0.4J4.cpNBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/973 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I recently heard that the Society for Amateur Science has installed an online WWW-based discussion forum. Try it out. There's just a little traffic there as yet. Note that the SAS is pretty much an anti-fringe (the founder S. Carlson is a famous skeptic) group, so the unconventional amateur science stuff will have to go elsewhere. SAS home page http://www.thesphere.com/SAS/ SAS forum http://www.thesphere.com/SAS/WebX.cgi .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 14:54:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA02096; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 07:53:15 +1000 Message-Id: <199709272153.HAA04417@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: DOG droppings Resent-Message-ID: <"4tGY.0.cW.H1OBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/974 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >The DOG thing was in response to some postings a few days ago. There >seemed to be interest in a new circuit but nobody had time or inclination to >build it. > >Woody > Strange. And I thought this was a free energy list :-():::: If someone can source the Barium Titanate crystal required, I am ready to go anytime. I reapeat, this is a _proven_ system. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 15:06:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA25307; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 15:06:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 15:06:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199709272259.RAA26928@csrlink.net> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: Bismuth and Magnesium in EM Fields Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:54:05 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5wp11.0.CB6.eDOBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/975 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > From: Patrick Bailey > So, why has Bismuth been eliminated via "Federal Law" from being used in > the production of permanent magnets because of "heath issues", Having not seen the relevant law (do you have a copy?), I'm highly perplexed as to what health issues are involved. Not only does Pepto-Bismol(tm) contain bismuth subsalicylate, but bismuth has recently been approved as a replacement for lead for hunting waterfowl. (Lead shot was banned because of environmental concerns, and some people for reasons unknown to me don't want to use steel shot.) "I don't want the world -- I just want your half." --T.M.B.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 15:23:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA30429; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 15:22:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 15:22:54 -0700 From: RoConroy@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 18:22:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970927182159_-1263221689@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Soliton structures are stable Resent-Message-ID: <"tcf2t2.0.FR7.ySOBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/976 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 97-09-27 13:53:47 EDT, Millenium, you write: << Anyone else out there who has modeled the proton? >> By observation of Nature in the macroscopic and microscopic realm along with studying the writings of the Pentateuch, I have deduced a structural pattern which I believe is mirrored in the aether structure as well as being mirrored in any and all particles, including the proton. I believe that an understanding of this structural pattern can eventually lead to the ability to tap the dynamic energy of the aether. For a description see URL: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/robert_conroy Bob From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 16:08:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA10636; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BCCBAB.717265E0@art.xs4all.nl> From: Pete Art To: "'Peter Nielsen'" Cc: "'Multiple recipients of list Freenrg-l'" Subject: RE: DOG droppings Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 01:11:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"M1FK62.0.4c2.B7PBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/977 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Peter, Barium Titanate has piezo-electric charactaristics and is used in = ordinary electric throw-away sigaretlighters and in stove ignition = units. Compress these pellets and you have high voltage, apply high voltage and = the phisycal size changes. If you want industrial amounts or 'user requested sizes' I can direct = you to the appropriate industries in Europe. Cheers, Pete Art ---------- From: Peter Nielsen[SMTP:openway@nor.com.au] Sent: zaterdag 27 september 1997 21:53 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DOG droppings >The DOG thing was in response to some postings a few days ago. There >seemed to be interest in a new circuit but nobody had time or = inclination to >build it. > >Woody > Strange. And I thought this was a free energy list :-():::: If someone can source the Barium Titanate crystal required, I am ready = to go anytime. I reapeat, this is a _proven_ system. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 16:58:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA16249; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:58:06 -0700 (PDT) From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DOG droppings Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 19:43:06 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <01BCCBAB.717265E0@art.xs4all.nl> In-Reply-To: <01BCCBAB.717265E0@art.xs4all.nl> Lines: 17 Resent-Message-ID: <"gm89y2.0.lz3.CsPBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/978 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Barium Titanate has piezo-electric charactaristics and is >used in ordinary electric throw-away sigaretlighters and in >stove ignition units. Compress these pellets and you have >high voltage, apply high voltage and the phisycal size >changes. Any way to tell by looking, or a simple (non lab) test to find out what piezo-electric elements are made out of? For example you get Zicronum Titanate crystals out of cheap phones that have the Electronic Ringers made by Mirata (sp?). You can get some piezo elements at Radio Shack as well but I don't know their composition. Over the years there have been hints that Barium, and possibly Strontium, had anomalous effects. Any one have any factual information on such leadgens? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 17:54:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA24138; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 17:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 17:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01BCCBB9.A1E8AD20@art.xs4all.nl> From: Pete Art To: "'bpaddock@csonline.net'" Cc: "'Multiple recipients of list Freenrg-l'" Subject: RE: DOG droppings Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 02:52:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"aDfeR.0.1v5.pgQBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/979 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The most easy way to get some piezo-electric crystals is to break open a = electric sigaret lighter (the one which clicks and sparks). In there you will find an element consisting of 2 cristalline = elements(barium titanate). Household appliances for generating a spark for making fire are mostly = consisting of these kind of elements. These piezo-elements (buzzers) from Radio Shack (Tandy?) are not very = useful since the crystal-element is very thin and glued on a metal = strip. It's mainly useful for generating tones in quartzclocks, phones, watches = etc. Barium Strontium Titanate was/is used by prof. Seike from Japan. He calls it Quantal Fuel and uses it in his anti-gravity generator. A few years ago he sold a kit with a ferrite block, a disk with 3 holes = in it and 3 spherical condensors... the disk and condensors were all = made of barium strontium titanate. They were parts for the antigrav. generator: 3-phase current appied to = the 3 condensors would generate a rotating electric field around the = ferrite block. In conjunction with some moebiuscoils this setup would = generate anti-grav. , changes in local timeflow, energy anomalies, = relativistic bio-physical effects etc. I tried to buy it from him, but he said he did not supply them anymore = because they wanted to improve it.(he's allready more than 20 years busy = with it) Haven't heard anything from him since then. Cheers, Pete Art -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------- Just because your Doctor has a name for it doesn't mean he knows what it = is. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------- ---------- From: Bob Paddock[SMTP:bpaddock@csonline.net] Sent: zaterdag 27 september 1997 23:43 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DOG droppings >Barium Titanate has piezo-electric charactaristics and is >used in ordinary electric throw-away sigaretlighters and in >stove ignition units. Compress these pellets and you have >high voltage, apply high voltage and the phisycal size >changes. Any way to tell by looking, or a simple (non lab) test to find out what piezo-electric elements are made out of? For example you get Zicronum Titanate crystals out of cheap phones that have the Electronic Ringers made by Mirata (sp?). You can get some piezo elements at Radio Shack as well but I don't know their composition. Over the years there have been hints that Barium, and possibly Strontium, had anomalous effects. Any one have any factual information on such leadgens? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 20:31:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA07809; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:30:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:30:23 -0700 Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:34:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709280334.XAA15099@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: DOG droppings Resent-Message-ID: <"c4aLP2.0.wv1.DzSBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/980 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 07:53 AM 9/28/97 +1000, you wrote: >>The DOG thing was in response to some postings a few days ago. There >>seemed to be interest in a new circuit but nobody had time or inclination to >>build it. >> >>Woody >> > >Strange. And I thought this was a free energy list :-():::: > >If someone can source the Barium Titanate crystal required, I am ready to go >anytime. I reapeat, this is a _proven_ system. > >Peter Nielsen > What exactly does this system do? I am far from the smartest guy on the list so keep it simple please. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 20:52:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA11252; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:51:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:51:53 -0700 X-Sender: warlock@mail.eskimo.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709272259.RAA26928@csrlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:57:37 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jim Richardson Subject: Re: Bismuth and Magnesium in EM Fields Resent-Message-ID: <"sbPi02.0.jl2.OHTBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/981 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >> From: Patrick Bailey >> So, why has Bismuth been eliminated via "Federal Law" from being used >in >> the production of permanent magnets because of "heath issues", > >Having not seen the relevant law (do you have a copy?), I'm highly >perplexed as to what health issues are involved. Not only does >Pepto-Bismol(tm) contain bismuth subsalicylate, but bismuth has >recently been approved as a replacement for lead for hunting waterfowl. > (Lead shot was banned because of environmental concerns, and some >people for reasons unknown to me don't want to use steel shot.) > steel shot is not as dense as lead (no suprise I suppose) and thus doesn't carry as much energy out to range for the same volume of shot. So if you want to hunt geese, you have to bump up in bore to 10 ga to get a reliable kill at median range. Lead (and bismuth) allow you to use a lighter bore without compromising on effectiveness (which often results in wounded birds getting away. rather than a clean kill in my stewpot! :) (As an aside, it is difficult to understand the banning of lead shot in waterfoul hunting without the banning of lead weights for fishing in those self same waters.. still, the govt doesn't usually make sense, no reason to expect it to make sense over this) > >"I don't want the world -- I just want your half." > --T.M.B.G. Jim Richardson Anarchist, pagan and proud of it. http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 21:37:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA17785; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:37:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:37:17 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:27:05 -0700 Subject: Re: DOG droppings Message-ID: <19970927.212712.13542.1.tv@juno.com> References: <199709272153.HAA04417@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-10 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"t3IMQ2.0.iL4.xxTBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/982 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 28 Sep 1997 07:53:15 +1000 Peter Nielsen writes: >If someone can source the Barium Titanate crystal required, I am ready >to go >anytime. I reapeat, this is a _proven_ system. How is the DOG a _proven_ system ? Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 21:37:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA17810; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:37:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:37:23 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: gwatson@microtronics.com.au Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:26:36 -0700 Subject: Re: SMOT Mk4 Progress Report Message-ID: <19970927.212712.13542.0.tv@juno.com> References: <342C5287.2325563A@microtronics.com.au> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-15 From: tv@juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"DIUci1.0.BM4.1yTBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/983 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Greg, Your periodic updates are much appreciated. They are also encouraging. I am very curious, what has become of the RMOD ? I know that you are keeping it confidential because of patent applications etc. However... Do you still have one that is running ? How long has it run without intervention or an outside source of power ? Thanks for the great work, Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 22:29:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA24184; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 22:29:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 22:29:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199709280528.AAA04812@dsm7.dsmnet.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Dean T. Miller" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:28:56 (-050 Subject: Re: Magnetic Distortion Priority: normal In-reply-to: <342CAC5E.B179C8CB@sky.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"VJRTW1.0.nv5.biUBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/985 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jerod, > Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:49:03 -0500 > From: Jerod Weaver > The use of this pulse is for > Electronic interference tests on computer hardware. Basicly it is > this: I have a couple of computers setting around and was wondering > about how much magnetic energy it would take to take one of them and > make it virtualy braindead. Ooooh. Sounds like you want an EMP test setup. I imagine this is to test for the magnetic pulses predicted by GMS. I'd sure like to know what you find. I'm getting some tube-type ham radio gear (called 'hollow state' by some) as a precautionary measure because tube equipment shouldn't be affected. Computers are another problem entirely. > I want a device that will be fairly > inexpensive to make and use. I need it to be fairly compact. I have > been to Information Unlimited's page already and have found there device > to be much to expensive and much to large for my application. Where > could I get a capacitor that would create such a pulse? About how much > would it cost? I think your best bet is to find some people who already have big capacitor banks and switches to see what tests they've run. There has been a lot of work by the military in this area because of the pulses created by atomic explosions (and maybe they are aware of other sources, such as those suggested by Scallion). IMO, the bigger problem is that there won't be any commercial electrical power if these pulses occur. Whole sections of the grid will be knocked out and I doubt they can recover. IOW, you won't have power (or phone communication) for your computers. Also, most modern cars (and aircraft) will immediately stop functioning. As I recall, GMS said these pulses will affect only localized areas, but there could be many of them (I assume in different localized areas). So there may be some hope that the power grid will recover. -- Dean -- from Des Moines (KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 27 22:30:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA22831; Sat, 27 Sep 1997 22:28:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 22:28:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709280528.AAA04805@dsm7.dsmnet.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Dean T. Miller" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:28:55 (-050 Subject: Re: Bismuth and Magnesium in EM Fields Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"hAETo3.0.ca5.MiUBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/984 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Rick, > Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:45:59 -1000 > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > We eat compounds of bismuth in popular G-I distress remedies like > Pepto-Bismol. By the way, a PB tablet will repel magnetic fields nearly as > strongly as a pure bismuth pellet. Hey, really? I wonder if a box made of PB tablets will shield the inside from magnetic pulses? (Running down to the drug store.) -- Dean -- from Des Moines (KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 00:03:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA00317; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:01:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:01:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199709280701.AAA03727@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Fw: Norman F. Ramsey Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:38:17 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ciYWs1.0.h4.Q3WBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/987 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > > Hi Butch! > > > > ---------- > > > > > > Is anyone familiar with Norman F. Ramsey's work on nuclear spin > > systems in > > > pure LiF crystals? (Around 1950, more radiant energy out than put in) > > > Thanks, > > > Butch LaFonte > > > > Yes, I have two papers about this, although they are not as you describe > > them. He did not get an overunity result. What he showed was that in > some > > organized systems of spins (like laser pumping and some special magnetic > > ones) an increase in entropy was accompanied by an increase in order! This > > allows for the possibility of "Negative Temperatures". A literature search > > showed several hundred papers on this since the erly 80's. The orthodox > > view is that it is impossible to transfer energy from a positive > > temperature realm to a negative temperature realm, so energy is > conserved, > > but I have a recent paper by a thermodynamicist (P.T. Landsberg) which says it IS possible to > > transfer one to the other. I understood the abstract of the article > (barely :-) > > > > > > Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 00:03:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA00290; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:01:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:01:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199709280701.AAA03706@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "vortex" , "Free Energy" Subject: Fw: A.K.T. Assis? Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:30:26 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Vv9HU.0.J4.O3WBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/986 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > > > Hi Folks! > > > > Does anyone have the email address of the physicist A.K.T. Assis in > > Brazil? I have some documentation I think he would be interested in... > > > > He says that the Weber electrodynamic law must be corrected for velocities > > close to C because in its original form it predicts that high electric > > fields will show "negative mass" effects, and these have not been > > reported....... but they have, many times! > > > > Thanks! > > > > Fred > > > > Ref: Changing The Inertial Mass Of A Charged Particle, by A.K.T. Assis > > Journal Of The Physical Society Of Japan > > V. 62, N. 5, May 1993, pp. 1418-1422 > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 00:03:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA28433; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709280701.AAA03510@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Fw: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:51:49 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2PWe41.0.5y6.U3WBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/988 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Butch! > > > I'm starting to think that people on the different lists care more > > about > > > the hunt than they do about the capture. > > > > Thee is an element of truth to this, but it is not the whole story. If an > > easily replicable, SOLID STATE overunity device was developed and > > distributed, I would buy one and run my house off of it, giving the > > inventor some money. Then I would devote my time to producing an > > interstellar FTL communication system and/or space drive ! > > Some of us at least are actively pursuing our own ideas and don't have > time to work on all the other ideas around. Personally, I take the policy of > > supporting ALL ideas to the best of my ability, usually by sending info. > > Patrick Bailey uses the term "adoption" in a recent post, and I think that > > sums it up. In MY opinion, there are MANY ideas with potential. Most > > never get tried, because there is nobody who cares enough to adopt them and > > put the time and energy into them to make things happen. As a > > non-builder, I know only too well how easy it is to crank out ideas, and > > how easy it is to get into the mindset that "my" idea is the cool one and > > everyone should pay attention and get to it. Why? These are all busy guys > > with too much to think about already. Just being on these lists insures > > that :-) > > > > After looking at all the different > > > attempts at overunity devices, in my opinion, only two show any real > > promise > > > > As you say, that is your opinion. > > > > These are the device of Mr. Bertil Werjefelt, > > > President of Poly-Tech (USA) Corporation, > > > > . His research has been on going for more than twenty years and his > > > approach to the development of his machine has been very scientific and > > > professional. > > > > Has an actual overunity device been demonstrated and tested by an > > independent testing firm? Are test results available? If he hasn't got that > > far in twenty years maybe he needs to let go of his idea and try another > > one. If he has got one that will work that has been tested, then he needs > > to go into production or at least get better media exposure. I'm not > being critical of his idea in particular. If I had been working on my idea for > > twenty years and did not have something out to the public I would move on. > > > > > > > The basic operating principle of these two devices is so simple if one > > > takes the time look at it. In Mr. Werjefelt's design the attraction forces > > > between the rotor and stator are balanced out buy connecting a rotor and > > > stator operating in repulsion. In effect the two when coupled, turn as > > though there were no forces at work. The two seem to turn as though they were > not magnets at all, the same as if the assembly was made of wood. I have > > built a fixture to test this principle and it works as stated. > > The attractive forces and repulsive forces are balanced out even in ONE > > rotor. I have done the experiment myself. If you spin a bar magnet > > between two other magnets so one pole is always attracting and one > > repelling the fixed magnets, the energy of rotation is conserved. The > > motion is jerky but the same energy is present. This is simply the > > conservative nature of the magnet field (as such). > > The fact that Bert uses this as part of his rationale was why I didn't > > bother to investigate further after I read an article about it. Also, the > > principle of his machine has nothing to do with Ramsey's work on negative > > spin temperatures, as he says it does. I know-- I checked. > > This does not mean that I am convinced that Bert's machine will not work. > > It just moves it further down the list of many worthy ideas I devote my > > attention to. The mind can only focus on so many things at once! > > > > > With magnets you can accomplish the > > > same thing because magnets can be switched on and off as gravity can > not. > > Other writers have said that it takes energy to switch the magnetic field > > on and off, and that is not strictly true, as Maxwell points out. But it > > seems to me that the inductive condition of the coil is different at > switch on and switch off times, and that is where the energy loss comes from. > > > > Many people > > > have built Newman machines, and other type devices, but these two > > machines I speak of, that show so much potential, people on the lists just seem to > > pass over and prefer to go on to what I some times see as technical rhetoric. > > > > The reason the Newman machine gets so much attention has less to do with it > > being a superior design and more to do with Evan Soule's "adoption" of the > > technology and his constant promotion of it. Well and good-- and this is > > what you are doing with Bert's. > > No one is ever going to care about a child more than the parents. > > > > It's as if they enjoy technical "namedroping" more than they do finding a > > source of free energy. I wonder often if the discovery of a overunity device > > would stop all their fun because the thrill of the hunt would be over and then > > what would they do? > > > > Answered above... and then there's time machines, cures for cancer...etc > > etc.... > > By the way I love to drop names, never know who is going to catch one :-) > > > > And isn't Bert doing technical name-dropping when he refers to Ramsey's > > work, which has nothing whatever to do with his device? I liked the > > article I read by Bert and he did impress me with his reasonableness, but > > when I got the Ramsey articles and saw the total lack of relationship I > > wondered... > > > > > There have been many people build Newman machines, but Mr. Muller > had his machine tested by square D company as well as other people and with > > positive overunity results. Why hasn't anyone built one of his machines? > > > > Where are those reports? I can honestly say that I search out every > report of anomalous energy and I have not seen them. I have seen a short article > > in Magnet magazine, and an article in Extraordinary Science. I have not > > seen the Canadian patents. Send them to Greg and have him put them on his > > list. I would like to see them. > > > > > Mr. Werjefelt in a document he made available to the public, > > > > Where? What book? Magazine? Or do you have to make a special effort to > > write to him to get it? If so he needs more media savvy. There is a lot > of stuff happening out there! In my line of work (bookselling) I see Great > > and Noble Works of Literature swept under the rug all the time because the > > authors thought they could sell themselves on their own merits and so > > didn't bother to put a sexy girl or knife-wielding madman on the cover:-) > > > > said that he > > wants to make the basic principles known so people could do research and > > he also states that there are many ways to configure the principle. > >If anyone wants more info. on these machines contact me at > > > HLafonte@aol.com or if anyone would like to join me in building one of > > > these. > > > > Any info you send me by mail I will scan and distribute on the net. > > > > I thought we on the lists were on the lists for that reason anyway. I > > > think sometime's that the builders of overunity device most often are > not. > > > > That's why I'M on the list. I understand your frustration, but you also > > have to understand that nothing ever happens in this world until someone > > like you cares enough to make it happen-- and a dose of old-fashioned > > SELLING helps :-) > > Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 00:03:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA00363; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:01:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:01:59 -0700 Message-Id: <199709280701.AAA03720@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" Cc: "Linda Moulton Howe" Subject: Fw: Bismuth and Magnesium in EM Fields Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:57:40 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aZNJf.0.a5.c3WBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/989 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > Hi Patrick and Linda, > ---------- > Bismuth and Magnesium in EM Fields: > > So, why has Bismuth been eliminated via "Federal Law" from being used in > the production of permanent magnets because of "heath issues", as used > in > the "very strange" experiments conducted and documented by Sparky Sweet > and others? > > > > > > Very Odd, people drink pepto bismol all the time..Bismuth is considered > > to be safe for human consumption. > > Maybe this will shed some light on that: > -- The pieces were made of layers of magnesium so pure that there was no trace of trace elements characteristic of Earth-manufactured > magnesium, and a small amount of zinc separated by layers of bismuth. > -- The bismuth/magnesium layered material emitted 60 times more positive > > > > ions than the pure magnesium being used for control purposes. > I have documents relating to an overunity invention supposedly > "channelled from extraterrestrials" in the 50's that uses--guess what--layers of > > > ferrous material, manganese, magnesium, and bismuth! > > > > -- Bismuth has the greatest Hall Effect (if a voltage is placed > applied to bismuth while it is a magnetic field, a current flow is induced at 90 > > > > degrees to the voltage) > > > Before the Roswell fragments surfaced I proposed an overunity device > based on the Corbino effect (bulk hall effect) in Bismuth. > It was never built. The Hall effect is a gyroscopic or nonreciprocal > effect. Gyroscopes have often been linked to space drives. > > and is the most diamagnetic of any metal (does not > allow a magnetic field to penetrate it), > > > > > > It's permeability lower than that of free space allows for the > possibility of creating a resonator for faster than light waves/particles, if one > > > assumes a Maxwellian, non-Einsteinian framework, based on the > transmission line equation. > Also an early 20th century writer suggested that magnetic pulses would > travel through Bi faster than light in a vacuum. > Also Bismuth fell more slowly than any other material in Brush's Gravity > tests. > Also it was reported to me privately that a motor wound with bismuth > wire lost twenty percent of its weight. > > > Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 02:03:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id CAA05168; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 02:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 02:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19970928090126.28895.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [205.147.213.1] From: "" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 02:01:25 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"RClg9.0.fG1.5qXBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/990 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >I believe the excess energy is derived from the force of Inertia, which is a REAL force, and not simply a reaction force. Fred, this is VERY interesting. I have believed for some time, after reading the books by Peter Bros, that inertia is a byproduct of gravitational fields. (Even David Hamel says his "weight into speed" won't work in space; see Granite Man & Butterfly, pg 146.) If that's true, you would be right in saying inertia isn't simply a reaction force, but a true INPUT of energy when attempting to redirect motion. A simple thought experiment...You're traveling in your car at 50 mph. You decide to make a hard right and get your face plastered against the side window with say, 10lbs of FORCE. Where is that 10 lbs coming from? and does it detract 10 lbs from your forward movement?. (I'm not an engineer, so maybe the laws do in fact say "YES, you now have "10 lbs" less movement.") Actually, all the above lends credence to Tesla's idea for a Gravitational Torque Amplifier. The extra torque is tapping inertia energy! This would also explain the Swedish perpetual motion machine's input. Dave L. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 02:56:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id CAA06924; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 02:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 02:56:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709280528.AAA04805@dsm7.dsmnet.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:53:12 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Bismuth and Magnesium in EM Fields Resent-Message-ID: <"ooPeO3.0.5i1.kcYBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/991 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dean - > Hey, really? I wonder if a box made of PB > tablets will shield the inside from magnetic > pulses? I don't think so, but you could grind up some Pepto-Bismol tablets and dry out some Milk of Magnesia, then mix the powder into epoxy and paint it on things in multiple layers - Cavorite! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 04:15:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA20276; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:14:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:14:18 -0700 Message-ID: <342E3B30.4FAD@ctv.es> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:10:40 +0200 From: Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga Reply-To: vramos@ctv.es X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Black Sphere Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bXIr_2.0.ey4.9mZBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/992 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi all! Anybody knows something about the black sphere? It was discovered in 1975 in Ukraine, and examined by V.N. Fomenko. It seems made with a unknown cristal, of 1,934 g/cm^2 density. The X-ray tests discovered a internal cavity. Density is too low for known cristals, and is supposed the core is filled with gravitational isotops (T.T. Brown), or maybe anti-matter... Vicente. -- Vicente Jose Ramos Orenga E-mail: vramos@ctv.es Home Page: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/vramos/home.htm Burriana (Castellon) SPAIN From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 04:16:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA20298; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:14:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:14:23 -0700 Message-ID: <19970928111349.19014.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [205.147.213.1] From: "" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:13:48 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"apQXy2.0.3z4.EmZBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/993 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Butch, Please send info on the two devices you mentioned! I can't believe I've never heard of either one! I definitely intend to build a working OU device. I also want to design a gravity canceling device. I've been wondering why people haven't built more Newman motors too. --Dave L. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 05:34:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA14424; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:33:39 -0700 (PDT) From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Bismuth and Magnesium in EM Fields Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 08:30:16 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <199709280701.AAA03720@mail1.halcyon.com> In-Reply-To: <199709280701.AAA03720@mail1.halcyon.com> Lines: 19 Resent-Message-ID: <"Fh4Dv.0.GX3.XwaBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/994 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > Bismuth and Magnesium in EM Fields: > > >> So, why has Bismuth been eliminated via "Federal Law" from being used in > > the production of permanent magnets because of "heath issues", as used > Some one confused Bismuth with Barium. If *BARIUM* has indeed been band by "Federal Law" then it should be listed in the Federal Register should it not? Any one up to the search? -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 05:43:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA14949; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:43:21 -0700 (PDT) From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: HLafonte@aol.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:43:15 GMT Message-ID: <342f406f.13640019@mail.zip.com.au> References: <970926193825_1399325880@emout15.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <970926193825_1399325880@emout15.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"4JQQX2.0.Uf3.c3bBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/995 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:39:43 -0400 (EDT), HLafonte@aol.com wrote: _> I'm starting to think that people on the different lists care more = about _>the hunt than they do about the capture.=20 'Tis true, the thrill of the hunt can become addictive. But OTOH not all of us have the time, the resources or either to experiment with every idea which comes along. Consequently I suspect quite a few of us tend to wait for someone else to try the water before we commit our = time/resources to an avenue which may be a dead-end. _> These are the device of Mr. Bertil Werjefelt, _>President of Poly-Tech (USA) Corporation,=20 I've never heard about this one. _>and the device of Mr. Muller, owner _>of Muller Magnetics.=20 I agree, this one is fascinating. I first came across it in Dan Kelly's "Manual of Free Energy Devices and Systems". I'd love to follow up the concept but, alas, I haven't had the time. Also, AFAIK, "metglass" is not available in Australia and no supplier was ever mentioned, that I heard about. This may have changed. _> Mr. Werjefelt in a document he made available to the public, said = that he _>wants to make the basic principles known so people could do research = and he _>also states that there are many ways to configure the principle. Is this document, or any other pertinent information available on the = Web? _> If anyone wants more info. on these machines contact me at _>HLafonte@aol.com =20 Yes, please. Cheers, Alan Schneider From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 05:53:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA26132; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:53:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:53:42 -0700 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Distortion Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:53:48 GMT Message-ID: <3430447b.14670467@mail.zip.com.au> References: <199709280528.AAA04812@dsm7.dsmnet.com> In-Reply-To: <199709280528.AAA04812@dsm7.dsmnet.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"5X5MR1.0.DO6.LDbBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/996 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:28:56 (-050, "Dean T. Miller" = wrote: _>I'm getting some tube-type ham radio gear (called 'hollow state' by = some)=20 _>as a precautionary measure because tube equipment shouldn't be = affected. =20 AKA "Fet's with pilot lights" _>Computers are another problem entirely. Anyone interested in rebuilding EINAC? Back to deBUGging, in the = original, literal sense of the term. _>-- Dean -- from Des Moines (KB0ZDF) Cheers, Alan. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 11:52:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA11011; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:51:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:51:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199709281851.LAA17748@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Dave Look" , Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:50:55 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"W3L9a2.0.yh2.nSgBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/997 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dave and all! > >I believe the excess energy is derived from the force of Inertia, which > is a REAL force, and not simply a reaction force. > > Fred, this is VERY interesting. I have believed for some time, after > reading the books by Peter Bros, that inertia is a byproduct of > gravitational fields. I am not familiar with this author, but the idea is well known. Some theorists take the view that local inertial lforces are the result of the sum of all gravitational forces acting on the object (Mach's principle). > (Even David Hamel says his "weight into speed" won't work in space; see > Granite Man & Butterfly, pg 146.) Another one I haven't read... > If that's true, you would be right in saying inertia isn't simply a > reaction force, but a true INPUT of energy when attempting to redirect > motion. > A simple thought experiment...You're traveling in your car at 50 mph. > You decide to make a hard right and get your face plastered against the > side window with say, 10lbs of FORCE. Where is that 10 lbs > coming from? and does it detract 10 lbs from your forward movement?. > (I'm not an engineer, so maybe the laws do in fact say "YES, you now > have "10 lbs" less movement.") Well, in a spinning disc, the inertia of the disc means that it cannot be accelerated instantaneously, It takes time to speed it up, but the energy stored in the disc after it is spinning does NOT include a term for the centrifugal force pulling the edge away from the center, because this force doesn't EXIST, according to Newtonian physics, the only radial force that exists is the material attraction between atoms that keeps the edge of the disc from taking off in a straight line (the centripetal force). A material disc can only be rotated so fast before it will explode from this "ficticious" centrifugal force :-) Newton argued with Huygens about the reality of centrifugal force. The prevailing view became that of Newton. It has been shown recently in studies of the light path around black holes that Huygens was right, centrifugal force is a real force. > Actually, all the above lends credence to Tesla's idea for a > Gravitational Torque Amplifier. The extra torque is tapping inertia > energy! I am not familiar with any Tesla work on gravitational or inertia forces, except for his thesis that the Moon does not orbit the Earth. I have read all of Teslas' patents as far as I know. I would be very interested in your source for this information. I believe it IS possible to tap centrifugal force directly but unfortunately in order to do so the disc needs to be accelerated and deaccelerated causing much energy loss in the driver. The gyroscopic device I described will work better. A guy named J.M. Phillips wrote an article called "Centrifugal Force Is A Reality" where he used a simple tube filled with water and a pressure gauge on the bottom, swung from the top like a pendulum, to show that the total energy of the system was exactly TWICE the energy that was put into it to lift it against gravity. > This would also explain the Swedish perpetual motion machine's input. Another thing to check out. Thnaks for the tips, Dave! Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 11:52:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA11176; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:52:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:52:00 -0700 Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:51:55 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Gravity September 27 and 28, 1997 (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"aXo6q3.0.Sk2.FTgBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/998 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:15:55 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: John Schnurer Subject: Gravity September 27 and 28, 1997 Subject: Gravity Modification September 27 and 28, 1997 Gravity Society US September 27 and 28, 1997 Several different experimental sets were conducted. NOTE: All of the runs below must be considered in light of the following: On September 28, 1997, after reflection on the results of the September 27 work, a simple test was performed: The assembly was cooled in liquid nitrogen and then tested for Meissner Effect. The Meissner Effect was degraded as compared to new sample of YBCO. A compass was used to determine if there were circulating or induced currents in the YBCO as indicated by external magnetic field. The compass test described below was used. Test and cross check of Meissner with compass: a] A new piece of YBCO is cooled, removed from LN2 and placed in air on table and exposed to small alnico magnet 5mm by 5mm by 17mm. This magnet deflects compass needle 45 degrees at distance of 100 mm. The exposure is realized by physically pressing the magnet briefly on the YBCO and removing rapidly. b] The measure is performed by placing the compass on top and slightly off center of the YBCO, which causes a deflection of the needle. The compass is observed and when the needle is no longer deflected the time is noted. c] The small magnet caused currents in new piece, as exhibited by external magnetic field for 8 seconds at which time the compass needle returned to no deflection. d] A Nd B Fe magnet 1" by 1/8" by 1/2" was used. It causes 45 degree deflection at 240 mm from compass. This magnet caused deflection for 27 seconds. e] The Nd B Fe magnet from [c], above, was applied the the YBCO in the assembly. The deflection lasted 6 seconds. f] We conclude the YBCO used in the assembly has degraded. 1] In the first set the beam and table scale set up used previously was used. Description: A one inch diameter YBCO disk subjected to fields. Suspended by threads on wooden beam 4 feet long. On opposite end of beam is weight suspended by cotton string. Target weight rests on YBCO. Target smaller in diameter than diameter of YBCO disk. YBCO suspended by threads. Podkletnov teaches column of effect obtains above YBCO. Column of effect, a Gravity Modification yields reduction of weight of target. Entire assemblage of YBCO and target weight become less heavy. The wooden beam is pivoted between assemblage and scale. Counter weight in on opposite end of beam from assemblage. If assemblage becomes lighter, scale indicates increased reading. Scale is common digital 300 gram full reading lab table scale. Resolution is 0.01 gram. "Noise" of background effects is about 0.05 to 0.07 grams. 2] In the first set a glass rod target was used and demonstrated change of reading on scale. 3] A series of runs were made with metallic targets comprised of US quarter dollar coins, in set of 4. Scaling tests of 4, 8, and 16 were performed. The scaling with weight was not clear cut and unambiguous. 4] The most clear cut scaling with weight occurred when there was complete thawing or warm up of assembly between runs. Even with this warm up the scaling was not as clear as in earlier runs. 5] The assembly and a small styrofoam cup to contain liquid nitrogen were all suspended and fields were applied. There is a boil off of LN2 under any condition in air. The boil off was recorded, roughly, as rate of change. The rate of change was increased for application of field. It is not clear if the rate change reflects a modified gravity or increased boil off due to thermal resistance heating caused by the electromagnet coils. 6] In air tests were conducted with and without various targets and a change was noted even with no target. It is not clear if gravity modification is the only effect causing. 7] It is thought worthy of note a change was recorded in all runs, in air and submerged. September 28, 1997 1] The magnet test, described above was conducted. 2] The YBCO was removed from the assembly and the balance of the assembly, less the YBCO, is intact and in the same form as it has been for the last 70 runs. 3] The "raw" assembly was chilled and the fields were applied in the normal manner. No weight change was noted. A second series may be run today, 28 Sept, 1997 and if so a report will follow. JHS From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 12:50:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA23972; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:50:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:50:16 -0700 Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:50:04 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Addendum to Schnurer post(fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cUqWe3.0.Ss5.tJhBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/999 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 14:59:24 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: William Beaty Cc: John Schnurer Subject: Re: Gravity September 27 and 28, 1997 (fwd) Addendum: Gravity September 27 and 28 1997 1] The only time weight change of any type was observed was when the YBCO was below Tc. 2] Assembly without YBCO was run: a] in air b] submerged in liquid nitrogen c] in air with frost and water condensation 3] No weight change was observed under any of the above conditions. 4] A new piece of YBCO was temporarily fastened into place with cellophane tape. When below Tc the weight change was observed with standard targets. JHS From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 12:54:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA29158; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <342EB581.3A8D1306@sky.net> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 14:52:34 -0500 From: Jerod Weaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Distortion References: <342C5287.2325563A@microtronics.com.au> <342C639E.796D@math.ucla.edu> <342C81A0.80ADB549@microtronics.com.au> <342C8ADB.68C@math.ucla.edu> <342C8A6E.1C082598@microtronics.com.au> <3.0.1.32.19970926235152.00bfc7cc@palacenet.net> <3.0.1.32.19970927133702.00bf16d4@palacenet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kXcYk1.0.V77.yMhBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1000 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Sir, I have another question regarding the hookup of a cap. I have only used pre-built devices before and this will be my first real construction project using High-Voltage caps. How would these be hooked to the power supply for charging and how would they be hooked to the coil for discharging? Thank you. Sincerely, Jerod Weaver From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 15:30:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA16312 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:30:36 -0700 Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:30:36 -0700 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 15:30:32 1997 Received: from innovation.com (smtp.innovation.com [205.138.228.3]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA16251 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:30:31 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost) by innovation.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with internal id OBA15359; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 14:53:55 -0700 Old-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 14:53:55 -0700 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: Remote protocol error Message-Id: <199709282153.OBA15359@innovation.com> To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="OBA15359.875483635/innovation.com" X-Diagnostic: Mail to rparker@metro.net bounced 1 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: RO X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --OBA15359.875483635/innovation.com The original message was received at Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:58:32 -0700 from smartlst@mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49] ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 554 ... Remote protocol error ----- Message header follows ----- --OBA15359.875483635/innovation.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (smartlst@mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by innovation.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA04064 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:58:32 -0700 From: freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA18777; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709242014.NAA18777@mx2.eskimo.com> Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #52 X-Loop: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/volume97/52 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com ----- Message body suppressed ----- --OBA15359.875483635/innovation.com-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 16:24:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA26131; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:24:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:24:00 -0700 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: DOG, use piezo speaker crystal ? Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 01:22:26 +0100 Message-Id: <19970929012226.5546d22c.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"ajELp1.0.7O6.FSkBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1002 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 21:27 27.09.1997 -0700, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: > >On Sun, 28 Sep 1997 07:53:15 +1000 Peter Nielsen >writes: >>If someone can source the Barium Titanate crystal required, I am ready >>to go >>anytime. I reapeat, this is a _proven_ system. Hmm, maybe you should just use a piezo speaker crystal as the output stage ? I get it uses a piezo crystal as the name says and that could also work ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 16:24:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA24492; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:23:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: New SMOT ideas Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 01:22:25 +0100 Message-Id: <19970929012225.5546cdf3.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"O-H8B1.0.a-5.9SkBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1001 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:55 27.09.1997 +0930, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >Hi All, > >I will post the promished SMOT Mk4 prototype photos by mid week. I >have been away again. > >The magnetic array design is new to you all, but returns to the >original "5 minute SMOT". I am using plastic tubing for the ramp and >ball return system. > >I am working on producing a plastic injection mold. The idea is to >produce 2 sections (top & bottom), drop in the magnets and ball, then >glue the sections together. Made of clear "See NO Batteries" plastic >it should make a real interesting toy. Design size is 75 x 50 x 25mm. >Should be NO problem pumping out several thousand a week. > Hi Greg, sounds interesting ! I just went on Saturday finally shopping and got a few parts for ramps and a Fleischmann H0-track toy-train circle, so I can now build a closed loop SMOT. Maybe I will get it earlier to work than you will ship out your SMOTs ??? I also had a new idea how to get the right steel balls. I just bought table tennis balls and these roll ideally on the Fleischman H0- track toy rails. I will drill a hole into them and fill them up with iron or nickel-iron powder and hope this way I get a pretty nice steel ball for my SMOT. This way I can also test it with different powders of metal ! I also will try to use the rail inside the SMOT track, so I have not to use U- form aluminium, but I also bought this one..and I also bought plastic round tubing. Hope to have a few experimentation results in a week or so... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 18:24:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA15354; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 18:24:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 18:24:24 -0700 Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 19:30:24 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november Reply-To: Steve Ekwall To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: MULTI-CORROBORATION OF THE GYROSCOPIC PARTICLE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SyvhA2.0.pl3.7DmBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1003 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 27 Sep 1997, Evan Soule wrote: >>-snip-- .... ALL OF THESE PHENOMENA ARE OCCURRING AS A RESULT OF THE >>GYROSCOPIC PARTICLE COMPOSITION OF ALL MATTER IN ACCORDANCE WITH E=MC^2. >> hummm, it's mine, mine, mine????? >> >>ONE FUNDAMENTAL UNIT -- The Gyroscopic Particle -- can mechanically explain >>ALL of the above phenomena. All Mass/Energy in the universe is comprised >>of this fundamental, mechanical unit. >> >>Evan Soule' Geez Guys, Lighten up, Yes..., gaining ground here! We *SEE* the Ocean.. but wasn't it Confuscious who said "THE UNIVERSE IS ONE!" well, anyway It was SOMEBODY I'm sure... over & over.. (nothing NEW man,),... [pun was Not Initially Intented] but, it's like one hand has the OCEAN (aether), the other has the WET (Newman), another hand has the BREADTH of it (Ross T.), and WAVES (the DEPTH's) are beig *SEEN* by EVERYONE..EVERYONE Wants the Universe (i'd guess/hope): ----- I Don't KNOW myself, How Many HANDS we HAVE ON DECK, BUT, When it comes to the Physics Future or Aether we need someone to build THE Boat to get off-shore! -=se=- BITE: "Be Infinite to Everything" -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 22:55:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA18059; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:54:11 +1000 Message-Id: <199709290554.PAA02025@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: DOG droppings Resent-Message-ID: <"IDzEK.0.xP4.BAqBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1005 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >How is the DOG a _proven_ system ? > >Tim Vaughan > I trust the inventor. Anyway, I don't see anyone here disproving it. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 22:55:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA18048; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:54:09 +1000 Message-Id: <199709290554.PAA02022@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: DOG droppings Resent-Message-ID: <"cHW-G2.0.kP4.9AqBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1004 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >>>The DOG thing was in response to some postings a few days ago. There >>>seemed to be interest in a new circuit but nobody had time or inclination to >>>build it. >>> >>> Peter >>> > What exactly does this system do? I am far from the smartest guy on the >list so keep it simple please. > Woody > DOG do. I was hoping someone would ask who wasn't too smart :-) Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 22:55:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA18094; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:54:19 +1000 Message-Id: <199709290554.PAA02033@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: Re: DOG, use piezo speaker crystal ? Resent-Message-ID: <"yPsJP2.0.dQ4.OAqBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1006 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To those who kindly offered snacks, the DOG only eats Barium Titanate _crystal_ not ceramics. This is the only material I know of, so far, that exhibits the required _polarity reversal_ under applied DC. Anyone know of others? Preferrably (much) cheaper ones. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 28 23:33:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA05014; Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:33:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:33:00 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 00:39:00 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DOG droppings In-Reply-To: <199709290554.PAA02025@nornet.nor.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"t-nYQ1.0.EE1.RkqBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1007 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, Peter Nielsen wrote: >>Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:54:11 +1000 >>From: Peter Nielsen >>Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >>Subject: Re: DOG droppings >>Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:54:30 -0700 (PDT) >>Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> >>>How is the DOG a _proven_ system ? >>> >>>Tim Vaughan >>> >> >>I trust the inventor. Anyway, I don't see anyone here disproving it. >> >>Peter Nielsen >> >> Well, I guess you got the heading right = 'Dog droppings'.. No response you say = no disproving it... hummmm Do you know what amercians equate with the name 'Peter'? glad the group 'tried to help you out'! for whatever it's worth.. Best of luck(same) on this & you future endevours. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 00:57:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA29194; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 00:56:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 00:56:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709290756.AAA27966@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: DOG, use piezo speaker crystal ? Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 00:46:17 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QX_Gu.0._77.zyrBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1008 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Peter, > This is the only material I know of, so far, that exhibits the required > _polarity reversal_ under applied DC. > > Anyone know of others? Preferrably (much) cheaper ones. > Rochelle salt crystals? not sure about it, I think it has the polarity reversal effect you want but not the K. You'd have to keep it dry... I think the main thing is it has to be a ferroelectric CRYSTAL rather than a microcrystalline material like Barium Titanate ceramic. Anybody know how to GROW BatiO2 crystals? I remember it has to be about 1000 degrees C, but that's all... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 01:15:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA14163; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 01:14:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 01:14:39 -0700 From: rvanspaa@eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Distortion Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 08:14:14 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <34335b78.33974778@mail.eisa.net.au> References: <199709280528.AAA04812@dsm7.dsmnet.com> In-Reply-To: <199709280528.AAA04812@dsm7.dsmnet.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NYTsB2.0.8T3.jDsBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1009 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:28:56 (-050, Dean T. Miller wrote: [snip] >Ooooh. Sounds like you want an EMP test setup. I imagine this is to >test for the magnetic pulses predicted by GMS. I'd sure like to know >what you find. [snip] I must have missed something. Who or what is GMS? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 02:19:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA19899; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 02:19:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 02:19:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199709290919.CAA02926@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Japanese Gyro experiment Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 02:27:28 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Qt4Uo.0.ms4.UAtBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1010 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All! I went through all issues of Speculations In Science And Technology and found no article about the Japanes gyro experiments. It must be forthcoming. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 03:11:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA27436; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 03:10:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 03:10:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199709291010.MAA47372@sdn5.csc.dk> From: i3683@csc.dk (I3683) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:58:00 CET DST Subject: Ang.: Japanese Gyro experiment MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"Y389D2.0.bi6.YwtBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1011 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: =20 =20 >I went through all issues of Speculations In Science And Technology = >and found no article about the Japanes gyro experiments. It must=20 >be forthcoming. =20 Indeed: New Evidence of Anti-Gravity Title of article: Possibility for the Complete Parity Breaking of Grav= ity and the Existence of Anti-Gravity: Evidence from Free-Fall Experiment Using a Spinning Gyro=20 by Hideo Hayasaka*, Haruo Tanaka*, Toshiyuki Hashida*, Tokushi Chubachi*= and Toshiki Sugiyama** *Faculty of Engineering, Tohoku University, Aobaku, Sendai 980, Japan **Matsushita Communication Industrial Co. Ltd., Midoriku, Yokohama 226, = Japan=20 Free-fall experiment of a spinning gyro enclosed in a capsule has= been conducted in order to investigate the topological effect of an object's spinning on the fall-acceleration. The topological effect is d= ue to the gauge term of de Rham's cohomology which couples with the invaria= nt angular momentum on a mirror transformation. The theory anticipates the= generation of twisted field that leads to the additional anti-gravity wh= ose strength is different in the left- and right-spinning around an axis. =20 For ten runs of the repeated fall experiments, in which each run= consists of the fall-time measurements for the left (viewed from the above), right and no spinning about the vertical axis, the fall-acceleration g(R) of the right-spinning is significantly smaller th= an g(L) of the left-spinning at 18000 rpm, with the latter being almost identical with g(O) of no spinning, without exception. =20 Our experimental system is composed of the following main parts:= (a) fall-tower of 300 cm in height, (b) five pairs of laser apparatus placed at upper, middle, and lower positions along the fall-tower, (c) t= wo time-counters (two frequency-counters with accuracy of 10^(-6)sec ) which were inserted between the upper and middle position, and between the upp= er and lower position, respectively, (d) a gate circuit for (c), (e) an electro-magnet, and (f) a drive apparatus of a gyro whose rotor-mass, radius, and inertial moment are 175 g, 2.9 cm, and 969.5 gcm. Various techniques have been used in order to fall the capsule enclosing the gyro exactly along the vertical axis. The main results are summarized in the following: The mean value of the difference between g(R) and g(0), < g(R) - g(O) >, is =20 =3D -0.1392 gal (0.0716 gal), =20 and that for the left spinning is =3D 0.0029 gal (0.0663 gal). =20 Furthermore, that for g(R) - g(L) is =3D =3D - 0.1421 gal (0.0317 gal).=20 where g(0) is the Earth's gravity-acceleration at Sendai (latitude=3D38.= 248 N, longitude=3D140.847 E, height=3D130.0 m), and the mean value for g(0)= is =3D 980.0658 gal (0.0001 gal). The above experimental data are presented as mean value in gal (standard deviation in gal). =20 The experimental results are completely free from systematic errors. Statistical evaluation has been also performed for the populati= ons corresponding to the sample ensembles (the experimental data). The present experiment has confirmed our previous experimental results for the weight changes of three spinning gyros: The previous experiment showed that the right-spinning caused weight decrease in proportion to the number of rotations, while the left-spinning showed no= weight change. The previous report was published in Physical Review Letters, 63, 2701-2704 (1989). Both the present and previous experiments suggest that the right-spinning generates anti-gravity, and also that the parity (the reflection symmetry on a mirror transformation ) of gravity breaks down completely. The appearance of anti-gravity means the generation of positive energy from the vacuum (i.e. the ether). The detail of the present experiment will be published shortly in= "Speculations in Science and Technology". And also, the present experim= ent will be reported in "International Conference on New Ideas in Natural Science", to be held by the Russia Academy of Science, St.-Petersburg, J= une 17-21, 1996. Furthermore, anti-gravity theory for an spinning object has= been developed by Hayasaka, and published in "Proceeding of III Inter. Conf. on Space, Time, and Gravitation", held by the Russia Academy of Science, St.-Petersburg, May 21-27, 1994. The proceeding was published = by " Politechnika", (6, Inzhenernaya Str., St.-Petersburg, 191011, Russia),= 1995. =20 Publisher of " Speculations in Science and Technology (S.S.T)": Editor, Bryony Waltson=20 Address, Chapman and Hall, 2-6 Boundary Row, London SE 8HN England Editor-in-Chief of the Journal (S.S.T): Dr. Akhlash Lakhatakia Address, Department of Engineering Science and Mechanics,=20 The Pennsylvania State University, 229 Hamond State University Park, PA 16802-1401 USA Contact Address: Dr. T. Hashida Research Institute for Fracture Technology Tohoku University Aza-Aoba, Aramaki, Aoba-ku, Sendai, 980-77 Japan Fax 81-22-225-2263 ------------------------------------------------------------------------= E-mail address: hashida@rift.mech.tohoku.ac.jp=20 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 04:45:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id EAA13441; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 04:45:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 04:45:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 07:43:48 -0700 From: francis x roarty Subject: Re: Ang.: Japanese Gyro experiment To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-to: froarty@motown.lmco.com Message-id: <342FBEA4.60DC@motown.lmco.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199709291010.MAA47372@sdn5.csc.dk> Resent-Message-ID: <"UnH1u1.0.uH3.DJvBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1012 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > Free-fall experiment of a spinning gyro enclosed in a capsule has > been conducted in order to investigate the topological effect of an > object's spinning on the fall-acceleration. The topological effect is due > to the gauge term of de Rham's cohomology which couples with the invariant > angular momentum on a mirror transformation. The theory anticipates the > generation of twisted field that leads to the additional anti-gravity whose > strength is different in the left- and right-spinning around an axis. > > For ten runs of the repeated fall experiments, in which each run > consists of the fall-time measurements for the left (viewed from the > above), right and no spinning about the vertical axis, the > fall-acceleration g(R) of the right-spinning is significantly smaller than > g(L) of the left-spinning at 18000 rpm, with the latter being almost > identical with g(O) of no spinning, without exception. > Question: Are these scientists taking into account the interaction with earths magnetic field? certainly the rule for motion of a conductor in a magnetic field will result in slower motion when opposing gravity but have almost no effect when aiding the much more powerfull force. Frank From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 05:10:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA06359; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 05:10:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 05:10:37 -0700 Message-ID: <34308889.360A@triode.net.au> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:05:13 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? References: <970926193825_1399325880@emout15.mail.aol.com> <342C4FC6.63E6A671@microtronics.com.au> <342D59D6.4E3@triode.net.au> <342C83FD.BCC45E39@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7d70S.0.GZ1.ygvBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1013 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > What if you were to design a rotary system that maintained constant > > inductance at all times. Would there be energy expediture then? > I believe constant inductance infers constant reluctance of the > magnetic circuits involved. As moving rotors cause reluctance > variations, it is hard to see how a system which delivers external > work could have constant inductance / reluctance. I agree with your observation and I would like to turn the argument around slightly. Most motors act as generators (hence the increase in input current when loaded) and most generators can be motored (hence the increase in back-torque when loaded). What if we could design a generator that had constant inductance? From your observation we could say that this generator could not be motored. Correct? This one design principle alone could open up a whole class of generators that featured no back-torque when loaded. Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 06:42:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA20545; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 06:41:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 06:41:33 -0700 Message-ID: <342FBFAA.1164@mediacity.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 06:48:10 -0800 From: "M.Twain" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ekwall2@diac.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: 'same' ol -- Re: the Universe is One Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iIlGt.0.r05.B0xBq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1014 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Steve, Yeah. Bottomline is we need someone (many ones) "to build the boat" as you say. Looking back at how long it took to turn the discovery of the electron into radio, and television -- does that imply that we have several decades more struggle before aetheric or protonic engineering even begins to find applications? Or is it only that the marketplace is bought and sold by those very 'same' goons who control radio and TV and insure that nothing of value is ever done with 'same'? Forecasts are that the Amazon, and even the Ocean, will not last decades. Certainly not the near-century it took for personal computers and the Web to begin their spread. The energy difference between Earth orbit and Earth surface, at current electric utility power rates, is less than one dollar a pound. Aerospace vehicle development, if permitted, would cost only fractionally more than airliner development. Costs for delivery of people and poundage would be no more than I am paying to fly to New Zealand (from California) today. The world aerospace industry is charging a markup of between 1,000 percent and 10,000 -- depending on who is PERMITTED to carry you. [See http://www.rotaryrocket.com] for one effort toward the lower (1,00 percent) end of the cost scale. I spent twenty years fighting the aerospace gag order. Now I have retired from the field, to invest what little ability and voice I have in the advance of dissident physics and aether technology. Before (if) you and I get our chance to "fly", a lot (most) of our pioneers are going to die. They won't have to be shot in the back. Our world 'cult'ures effect the 'same' simply by complete denial of resources, universal withholding of information and publicity, and generous application of enmity, difficulty, derision ... We reinforce the 'same' by consumer vice, self-denigration, and bodily destruction. As if we can accomplish our tasks (against the institution of violence) without healthy minds and bodies! same 'ol', Millennium From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 09:50:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id JAA21373; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Frank C. Earl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:53:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: tires>>starlight Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"Sq_RT.0.oD5.DmzBq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1015 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > The dog thing was in response to some postings a few days ago.There > seemed to be interest in a new circuit but nobody had time or inclination to > build it. Well, if there were more info on the construction- with ways for someone in the US to obtain the needed Barium Titanate dialectric, then I might find both the time and the inclination to follow up on the DOG. (I'm gearing up to follow up on the TEP and the SMOT, myself since they have easy enough design specs and have easily obtainable materials requirements.) -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 11:24:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA06153; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709291822.LAA23725@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:27:28 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GdFWr3.0.0W1.Y7_Bq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1016 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Maxwell, > I agree with your observation and I would like to turn the argument > around slightly. > Most motors act as generators (hence the increase in input current when > loaded) and most generators can be motored (hence the increase in > back-torque when loaded). > > What if we could design a generator that had constant inductance? From > your observation we could say that this generator could not be motored. > Correct? > > This one design principle alone could open up a whole class of > generators that featured no back-torque when loaded. Hi Maxwell and all, This is the parametric angle. You can certainly vary inductance so there is no back torque. The open question is whether you need as much energy to vary the inductance as you gain from eliminating the back torque. One physical test arrangement would be an alternator with the output coils connected to their load through a magnetic amplifier whose control voltage is timed to the rotor. If set up properly the rotor will have no back torque. But then the energy generation has moved to the magnetic amplifier, which because of the high frequency variation of the control voltage has become a parametric transformer. The open question then becomes, is the loading of the control voltage source equivalent to that of the rotor in the back torque situation? Keep in mind that the output current from the stator coils is flowing through the mag amp and varying the inductance of the voltage source-- there is still reciprocity. It appears you have just moved the energy transfer to another location. If you haven't, then you have a working device. In my research, I have come to the conclusion that you cannot have a true overunity machine unless you can break reciprocity between source and load. This can be only be done through work-free rotation of output energy to right angles of the input, as in a gyroscope or a "passive gyrator", a hypothetical circuit that changes an inductance into a capacitance without dissipating energy. I(t has been mathematically proven that a gyrator circuit that is conservative violates the second law. Therefore all real gyrators dissipate energy.) This is the ONLY situation I've found where cause and effect relationship is disrupted, and not simply delayed (like time delays). Parametric transformers and the like are not nonreciprocal, so they are not likely to have overunity performance. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 11:40:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA09898; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:35:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:35:13 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970929143116_1991015675@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? Resent-Message-ID: <"xnM18.0.YQ2.VJ_Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1017 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Alan, I am in the process of getting permission from Mr. Werjefelt to put his work on the web. Have you looked at http://www.aa.net/~mwm/magnet/mmtechpro1.html for Muller's work? Let me know, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 11:56:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA13099; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:50:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:50:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199709291850.LAA00964@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" , "Dave Dameron" , "Jean-Louis Naudin" , "Stefan Hartmann" , "Stuart Rae" , "Michael Randall" , "Vincente Ramos" Subject: Re: Overunity proof of TEP circuit already there... ! Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:58:18 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o3jQ2.0.VC3.sX_Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1018 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Stefan and all TEPites, > > The main goal is reached now already by this circuit, cause the " 1 + " in > the efficiency calculation formular says, that is is always over 100 % > efficient ! > > You get more heat at the resistor , but the battery has to deliver less > energy for it. > > Dieter Bauer says, that he additional Load resistor energy is converted form > the surrounding heat > inside the switched bifilar coil and this coil should cool down after > running it for a while ! > > Comments please ! Let me be clear about what the test picture shows. The output voltage is symmetrically centered on +12.5 volts through a 1 K load. The input voltage is symmetrically centered on -8 V. through the same load. Is this correct, Jean-louis? It appears to be.. As is often with the scope diagrams, I missed where the 0 V. line is and assumed that both traces were centered on 0 V. Simply by visual evidence it appears that Stefan is correct. And of course, the recharging of your other circuits and many other little pieces of evidence would indicate that O/U is being acheived in these circuits. I'm not sao sure about the heating and cooling of the circuit. Dieter assumes that the energy is comingfrom the thermodynamic environment, and it MAY be. I think we (Jean-louis :-) will just have to check it out, it is an important test. I have seen the task as more a matter of practical implementation since the V. 5.0 tests, but my intuition that O/U was being acheived already was just that, an intuition, as I had not backed it up with firm calculations. I will be very interested to read any analysis of the TEP circuits by Dieter. I hope he will count himself in on our discussions in the future! Congratulations to Stefan and to Jean-louis!!! Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 12:24:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA18374; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:18:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:18:41 -0700 Message-Id: <199709291918.MAA10159@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "vortex" , "Free Energy" Subject: To Frank Roed and Frank Earl (Thornson drive) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:26:11 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ofryA3.0.wU4.Fy_Bq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1019 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Two Franks! I had forwarded your mail asking for the Thornson drive info up to my home computer but it lost your email addresses. Please send it to me whe n you get this so I can get the ball rolling on sending out the info. Thanks! By the way, have you noticed how many people on the lists have names that start with FR? Frank Roed Frank Earl Frank Stenger Frank Roarty Fred Sparber Must be because it is the FRee energy list :-) FRed From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 13:37:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA29482; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:28:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:28:20 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709292028.NAA04356@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Dave Dameron Subject: Re: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? Resent-Message-ID: <"Bk8V_3.0.ZC7.Zz0Cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1020 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 10:05 PM 9/29/97 -0700, you wrote: >Greg Watson wrote: > >> I believe constant inductance infers constant reluctance of the >> magnetic circuits involved. As moving rotors cause reluctance >> variations, it is hard to see how a system which delivers external >> work could have constant inductance / reluctance. > >What if we could design a generator that had constant inductance? From >your observation we could say that this generator could not be motored. >Correct? Doesn't a homopolar generator fall into this class? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 14:24:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA08003; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:24:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:24:02 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:19:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970929151606_-1162325657@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.24354.emout18.mail.aol.com.875560566" Resent-Message-ID: <"BLgLv2.0.py1.mn1Cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1021 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.24354.emout18.mail.aol.com.875560566 Content-ID: <0_24354_875560566@emout18.mail.aol.com.8113> Content-type: text/plain Maxwell, Take a look at this drawing and see if it gives you any ideas. 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MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.8461.emout13.mail.aol.com.875560254" Resent-Message-ID: <"sscUB1.0.DP.bo1Cq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1022 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.8461.emout13.mail.aol.com.875560254 Content-ID: <0_8461_875560255@emout13.mail.aol.com.7834> Content-type: text/plain Fred, Does this drawing give you any ideas? 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--PART.BOUNDARY.0.8461.emout13.mail.aol.com.875560254-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 14:30:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA08993; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:26:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:26:13 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:25:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Jason Aldo To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: Dave Look Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY In-Reply-To: <199709281851.LAA17748@mail1.halcyon.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XGT8Z.0.KC2.op1Cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1023 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > I believe it IS possible to tap centrifugal force directly but > unfortunately in order to do so the disc needs to be accelerated and > deaccelerated causing much energy loss in the driver. The gyroscopic > Hello, The CEACU water turbine (a reaction turbine)is supposed to utilize centrifugal force to propel itself. The turbine basically consists of a rotating hollow drum into which water is pumped via a hollow shaft . Water jets are located around the periphery of the drum. Reportedly, when the drum reaches a certain speed, the water is propelled from the jets by centrifugal force of sufficient enough velocity to cause enough reactice forcet o spin the drum without any outside power sorce. Since the drum always contains the same amount of water inside it, the weight remains the same, and therefore it acts as a flywheel. The only energy required to keep a flywheel running is the energy needed to overcome bearing loss and windage. As water is exited from the jets, more water is sucked into the drum through the central shaft. Supposedly, the faster the wheel spins, the more centrifugal force develops causing the water to exit the jets at a higher velocity which causes the drum to rotate faster, which furthur increases the centrifugal force.....etc, etc, etc... until the turbine blows apart or flys off its bearings.Does anyone have any opinion on why this couldn't work or where energy losses would occur that I have missed? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 14:31:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA10938; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:31:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:31:09 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970929153714_1731619821@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Subject: MERF (Magnetic Energy Research Forum) (From Butch) Resent-Message-ID: <"tsdGE1.0.Jg2.Ju1Cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1024 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Due to great interest in the Muller and Werjefelt projects, I believe that some type of name must be given to the project that will be doing further R & D in this area. If it's alright with everyone, how about "Magnetic Energy Research Forum" , MERF for short. It will make it easy to spot the posts on the lists. Thanks, Butch (If you don't like the name, let me know) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 14:38:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA00458; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:37:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:37:19 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970929160608.0069d634@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:06:08 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: Overunity proof of TEP circuit already there... ! In-Reply-To: <19970929200541.594b3079.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DP7jf1.0.17.D-1Cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1025 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 20:05 9/29/97 +0100, Stefan Hartmann wrote, and I snipped: >If you compare the heat energy produced at the load resistor and the energy >drawn from the battery >over one complete cycle, the efficiency is as follows: > >WLoad / W battery = 1 + (delta V/Vo) ^2 * X >where X is a term I don´t remember anymore, but he will soon put it online >and present the whole >calculation. The formula presented complicates matters unnecessarily.... Efficiency n=(Pout/Pin)100 If you display the current and voltage waveforms on the screen of an oscilloscope, and then do a piecewise linear integration of the area contained within both waveforms with respect to the period of a cycle...you would then have a concrete answer...based on fact, which is THE DATA. Anything less is supposition...brilliant or otherwise. >The main goal is reached now already by this circuit, cause the " 1 + " in >the efficiency calculation formular says, that is is always over 100 % >efficient ! >>> >Dieter Bauer´s calculation shows it. Based on how he assumes the circuit should be modeled. >Dieter Bauer says, that he additional Load resistor energy is converted form >the surrounding heat >inside the switched bifilar coil and this coil should cool down after >running it for a while ! That should be easy to verify...I'd like to see the supporting data. I don't mean to sound crabby...well, yes I do. There have been several posts lately that repeated claims for OU devices that simply cannot be verified. I WANT to see OU become a reality, but such claims only make it all that much more difficult for the person that actually accomplishes the feat to convince anyone to even look at it. I've hear many inventors cry wolf, when there is none. I'll entertain any idea, yes even Fred's :), who knows how or where the big leap forward will occur. However, when the claims of success are made, I want see the figures...I want to touch the device...I want it to work for anyone that has the skill to build it.... The Square D tests mentioned in regard to one such device are, from the results of my inquiries at the time that this claim was first made, pure bunkum. Best Regards, JD ---------------------------------------------------- "Somewhere between anticipation and nostalgia we should have been happy." -Too Much Coffee Man #1 E-mail to mules@palacenet.net ---------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 16:35:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA24010; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:33:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:33:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:33:03 +1000 Message-Id: <199709292333.JAA05291@nornet.nor.com.au> X-Sender: openway@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Peter Nielsen Subject: DOG pause Resent-Message-ID: <"XjULk2.0.3t5.vg3Cq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1026 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Well, if there were more info on the construction- with ways for >someone in the US to obtain the needed Barium Titanate dialectric, >then I might find both the time and the inclination to follow up on >the DOG. (I'm gearing up to follow up on the TEP and the SMOT, >myself since they have easy enough design specs and have easily >obtainable materials requirements.) > >Frank C. Earl > Yes, _the_ problem with the DOG is the expensive and hard to source Barium Titanate CRYSTALS, and how to bond them conductively to surfaces of the inner cap. Having exhausted all possibilities currently known to me, I have put out to the list for alternatives, as a tentative first step. I thank everyone for their responses so far. As previously mentioned, I am bound not to disclose several (comparitively straightforward) aspects of the design without a chance of some kind of fruitful outcome, i.e. a realistic cooperative project. Sorry, but this is not my decision. A few things I can say about the invention are it: Contains no coils. Is wholey capacitive. Uses a conventional, low current HV power supply. Does not fully load PS when current is drawn. Involves translation of electrons from the vacuum. Barium excluded, cost would be under $100. I know some readers are suitably qualified in electronics, but whether or not they accept my offer on the above basis is their own decision, and obviously a matter of faith. As I can provide no further info here until then, it may be more appropriate to respond off-list for now. Hopefully, we'll be back later on this. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 17:33:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA10938; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:31:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:31:09 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970929153714_1731619821@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Subject: MERF (Magnetic Energy Research Forum) (From Butch) Resent-Message-ID: <"tsdGE1.0.Jg2.Ju1Cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1024 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Due to great interest in the Muller and Werjefelt projects, I believe that some type of name must be given to the project that will be doing further R & D in this area. If it's alright with everyone, how about "Magnetic Energy Research Forum" , MERF for short. It will make it easy to spot the posts on the lists. Thanks, Butch (If you don't like the name, let me know) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 17:51:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA14627; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:51:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:51:06 -0700 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Overunity proof of TEP circuit already there... ! Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:59:24 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <3.0.1.32.19970929160608.0069d634@palacenet.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970929160608.0069d634@palacenet.net> Lines: 71 Resent-Message-ID: <"4rew2.0.Na3.tp4Cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1027 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: [snip] >If you display the current and voltage waveforms on the screen >of an oscilloscope >I don't mean to sound crabby...well, yes I do. Me too. Seems that 'we' never learn a good lesson either. O'scopes are useless for determining power. In general scopes lie, power factors, lack of calibration, uncompensated probes, miss matched probes, et. al. They are a great devices to have for what they where meant to do, alas if all you have is a hammer every thing starts to look like a nail. >There have been >several posts lately that repeated claims for OU devices that >simply cannot be verified. I WANT to see OU become a reality, but >such claims only make it all that much more difficult for the person >that actually accomplishes the feat to convince anyone to even look >at it. I've hear many inventors cry wolf, when there is none. If the idea is to prove that you have more power coming out that going in then measure power. IE: *HEAT*. There are several ways that this can be done simply and inexpensively. Feed your output in to a resistor of suitable power/impedance rating and measure its tempature rise. Tempature sensors could be a simple Radio Shack thermometer, but we're not even going to discuss the calibration of those. There are any number of semiconductor tempature sensors such as the LM34, LM35, LM335 from National Semi. the TMP0x family from Analog Devices, as well as several other players. There are also RMS converter ICs that do the math that you talked about by Analog Devices, they have a very detailed application manual on the theories of power measurement such as the right way and the wrong way. Linear Technology makes the LT1018 that is a heater and sensor in the same package. If I put some thing together like this is a kit is there enough interest to make it worth the bother of a PC board layout job (ie. would I recover the cost)? For the smart alic that wants to measure Cold Currents [insert the term you like best] build the equivalent of a Hot Wire Anemometer where the amount of heat REMOVED from the wire is measured. Opening of any transdimentional vortexes voids the warranty in this universe. All devices need to be shielded from ambient air flow and any internal self heating (or cooling) needs to be accounted for. If you don't want to build some thing, then the cheapest option to buy is a True RMS meter. The best option is to buy a calorimeter if cost is no object. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 17:59:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA07079; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709300057.RAA25172@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Overunity proof of TEP circuit already there... ! Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:05:09 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1Selq2.0.Qk1.Kw4Cq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1028 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jack! > I don't mean to sound crabby...well, yes I do. There have been > several posts lately that repeated claims for OU devices that > simply cannot be verified. I WANT to see OU become a reality, but > such claims only make it all that much more difficult for the person > that actually accomplishes the feat to convince anyone to even look > at it. I've hear many inventors cry wolf, when there is none. > > I'll entertain any idea, yes even Fred's :), well, THANKS :^) who knows how or where > the big leap forward will occur. However, when the claims of success > are made, I want see the figures...I want to touch the device...I want > it to work for anyone that has the skill to build it.... I TOTALLY agree. That is why I am focussing on devices that are made of easily available components, are solid state, and are easily testable, that is, don't contain complex waveforms or two way flows of energy etc. Personally, I will claim that things MIGHT work and should be tried. If I ever actually HAD a good idea that worked, I know, not likely Jack :-) I would probably pack it up and send it to Scott Little with nothing in the box except instructions on how to turn it on, and let HIM make the claims! Fred > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 18:45:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA08993; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:26:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:26:13 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:25:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Jason Aldo To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: Dave Look Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY In-Reply-To: <199709281851.LAA17748@mail1.halcyon.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XGT8Z.0.KC2.op1Cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1023 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > I believe it IS possible to tap centrifugal force directly but > unfortunately in order to do so the disc needs to be accelerated and > deaccelerated causing much energy loss in the driver. The gyroscopic > Hello, The CEACU water turbine (a reaction turbine)is supposed to utilize centrifugal force to propel itself. The turbine basically consists of a rotating hollow drum into which water is pumped via a hollow shaft . Water jets are located around the periphery of the drum. Reportedly, when the drum reaches a certain speed, the water is propelled from the jets by centrifugal force of sufficient enough velocity to cause enough reactice forcet o spin the drum without any outside power sorce. Since the drum always contains the same amount of water inside it, the weight remains the same, and therefore it acts as a flywheel. The only energy required to keep a flywheel running is the energy needed to overcome bearing loss and windage. As water is exited from the jets, more water is sucked into the drum through the central shaft. Supposedly, the faster the wheel spins, the more centrifugal force develops causing the water to exit the jets at a higher velocity which causes the drum to rotate faster, which furthur increases the centrifugal force.....etc, etc, etc... until the turbine blows apart or flys off its bearings.Does anyone have any opinion on why this couldn't work or where energy losses would occur that I have missed? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 18:53:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA05254; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:53:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:53:08 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709300157.VAA13061@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: dog doo Resent-Message-ID: <"ieEQ8.0._H1.2k5Cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1029 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Too bad you wish to stop the dog droppings. I was hoping it would carry on untill I found out what the scoop is on the dog do ;) Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 18:53:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA16605; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709300157.VAA13049@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: butch1.gif Resent-Message-ID: <"xRwKC1.0.M34.7k5Cq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1030 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > name="BUTCH1.GIF" > > Hi Butch Do you have another veiw of this. The principle seems to be the same as the Adams motor I have been trying to build. Also pull up patent 5436518 on the patent server.Teruo Kawai of Japan invented and built this motor and installed it on a motor scooter with exceptional results(or so the story goes). The main difference seems to be the additional rotor. MERF is okay by me.Somepeople may be tempted to put an S on the front of it. Woody From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 19:21:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA08003; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:24:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:24:02 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:19:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970929151606_-1162325657@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.24354.emout18.mail.aol.com.875560566" Resent-Message-ID: <"BLgLv2.0.py1.mn1Cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1021 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.24354.emout18.mail.aol.com.875560566 Content-ID: <0_24354_875560566@emout18.mail.aol.com.8113> Content-type: text/plain Maxwell, Take a look at this drawing and see if it gives you any ideas. 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1rHEU+rxz0Yar5q2KMGr6Vcxt1zbMAXhlGPrV8JiOrh3jbnLV5sxf2eO4vFrcNAzV+gSG13p S2d6053+dKhHXepTp3rVrX51rGddIwEBADs= --PART.BOUNDARY.0.24354.emout18.mail.aol.com.875560566-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 20:16:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA26418; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 20:16:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 20:16:10 -0700 Message-ID: <34306E25.12AC@voicenet.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:12:37 -0400 From: Eric Krieg Reply-To: eric@voicenet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: CNBC review of free energy claimant, Dennis Lee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UhSPt2.0.gS6.vx6Cq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1031 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: folks, Tuesday Sept 30th at 7:30pm on CNBC (cable news) the show "Deals and Steals" will feature a short episode on Dennis Lee's claims. I'm told I'll be featured for only a short time. Part 2 will be on Wed. Like it or not, but sincere free energy investigators end up getting a black eye by association when people like Dennis get huge investiment money based on ill-supported claims. For the few people investigating heat engine based F/E designs, I offer the following skeptical page by Tom Napier at: http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic/frenfaq.htm I also offer some back and forth debate related to Browns gas at: http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/bgas.htm best wishes, eric the skeptic -- http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic eric@voicenet.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 21:15:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA08080; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970929221117.006e0a48@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:11:17 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: Overunity proof of TEP circuit already there... ! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19970929160608.0069d634@palacenet.net> <3.0.1.32.19970929160608.0069d634@palacenet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"DEPiA2.0.6-1.Fp7Cq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1032 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi all... At 19:59 9/29/97 -0400, Bob Paddock wrote: >>Seems that 'we' never learn a good lesson either. O'scopes >are useless for determining power. In general scopes lie, >power factors, lack of calibration, uncompensated probes, >miss matched probes, et. al. They are a great devices to >have for what they where meant to do, alas if all you have is >a hammer every thing starts to look like a nail. >>If the idea is to prove that you have more power coming out >that going in then measure power. IE: *HEAT*. These are not faults of the oscilloscope, they are shoddy laboratory practices...I've found this approach to work well in the laboratory, measuring the dissipation in switching transistors. I've verified it seven was to Sunday...it works If you do not have a way to calibrate your oscilloscope, or understand the proper probes to use, and how to compensate them, then you should not attempt these measurements. Power factor has NO effect on this measurement. The area contained within both the I and V traces IS the true power. It's not as precise as a bolometer, but it's a damn site better than a radio shack thermometer and a resistor. Shall I recite the myriad sources of error in THAT measurement? Best Regards, the even crabbier JD ------------------------------------------------------------ Read not to contradict and confute, nor believe and take for granted...but to weight and consider. -Bacon mules@palacenet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 22:59:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA07884; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709300558.WAA16763@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "vortex" , Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:06:03 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8Zt_A.0.3x1.TK9Cq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1033 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Peter and all! > > > I believe it IS possible to tap centrifugal force directly but > > unfortunately in order to do so the disc needs to be accelerated and > > deaccelerated causing much energy loss in the driver. The gyroscopic > > > Hello, > The CEACU water turbine (a reaction turbine)is supposed to utilize > centrifugal force to propel > itself. The turbine basically consists of a rotating hollow drum into > which water > is pumped via a hollow shaft . Water jets are located around the periphery > of the drum. Reportedly, when the drum reaches a certain speed, the > water is propelled from the jets by centrifugal force of sufficient > enough velocity to cause enough reactice forcet o spin the drum without > any outside power sorce. Does anyone have any opinion on why this couldn't work or where > energy losses would occur that I have missed? i have seen a similar idea called the Matthias machine or something like that, invented in Syria. Is this the same one? The problem with this idea, as I see it, is the same as with my old centrifugal schemes, which is that the C-force is ALWAYS at right angles to the acceleration vector of the rotating body. The jets will fly out straight from the sides and will not impel the drum. On the other hand if the jets are angled then the force that drives the turbine must arise from pressure within it rather than C-force. The C-force, or any inertial force, must be converted (without use of power) from a force directed away from the center of rotation to a force along the rotational vector, in other words, at right angles. It is possible to do this but it is damn hard, I have been trying to figure out a way to do it for years. I believe this is how the Bessel wheel worked. I believe this is how the spindizzy works. Picture a spinning disc with two opposite masses attached in radial grooves with springs and rachets so that when the disc is spun the masses move to the outside edge and lock there. When the disc is spun, the energy put into the disc is stored in the rotation of the disc. Now, before anyone protests, I understand that the angular momentum changes as the masses move to the outside edge but this does not change the total energy of the disc, only its inertial moment and acceleration under outside force. This is tantamount to increasing I while decreasing V in the K.E equation for the disc. The total K.E. in the disc does not change. THE MOVEMENT OF THE MASSES CANNOT ALTER THE ENERGY BALANCE OF THE DISC for the same reason given before in regard to the black box suspended from the rope, all the internal forces must sum to zero. In addition, if the movement of the masses could cause the disc to lose energy it would violate a basic mechanics axiom, that a force cannot alter the magnitude of another force at right angles. So you have your spinning disc with a certain amount of energy stored in the spin. But also the masses have moved out and been caught by the rachets due to the C-force. When the original spin energy is extracted by loading the disc with a generator (like a flywheel), the potential energy of the springs can be released and added to the total energy output of the device. (We are assuming the motor/generator are 100% efficient for this thought experiment). The result: all the original energy is returned (theoretically) and there is more energy than you started with arising from the spring-captured inertial force! THE WHEEL IS A FREE ENERGY DEVICE! I repeat, I see no flaws in the theory of these various versions of the spindizzy, although they are cumbersome physical systems designed only for illustrative purposes. If anyone finds one, be kind enough (and I mean that!) to tell me what it is. I would like to correct my understanding of basic mechanics. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 29 23:45:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA12464; Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34309DA5.4423@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:35:17 +1200 From: Robbie Rowntree Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: do magnets suck Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Mcvtq3.0.e23.m-9Cq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1034 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: what is the nature of magnetic energy 5x5 smot array level ferric ball N track measurement taken at sleepers, arrays close digital scales on side ,balsa stick concoction +1+3+4+5+4+4+4+4+4+3+2 e -2-6-12-12-5-1 static thrust in grams =+40 =-38 how come the ball wont roll out with a decline in track to overcome drag seems to me the flux is a loop of momentum, kinetic energy taking more than giving the way to win this game is to tune the smot to run in reverse as this is the true direction of thrust if you know what i mean Robbie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 02:30:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA24454; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 02:27:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 02:27:37 -0700 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Fred Epps" , "Dave Dameron" , "Jean-Louis Naudin" , "Stuart Rae" , "Michael Randall" , "Vincente Ramos" From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: How to measure TEP overunity circuit very obviously ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:26:56 +0100 Message-Id: <19970930112656.5c969ab1.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"qZ9BT1.0._z5.8OCCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1035 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >For myself I consider that a battery is OK for tests only if power doesn't >flow back to it for recharging. It should serve only as a separate, >one-way power supply for testing. What is the use of recharging tests when >it will not be considered good evidence? Well, the easiest and convincing test would be to take a big electrolyt capacitor as the energy source instead of the battery, charge it up to a determined voltage so you know its energy storage of: W= 0.5 CV^2 Now use this circuit: www.harti.com/tep/shteptst.gif and put the load resistor into a calorimeter water bath. Now use this circuit to power the load resistor and measure the heat generated in the resistor via the water bath until all the energy stored in the electrolyt capacitor has flown through the resistor and the electrolyt capacitor has 0 Volt voltage. (The 555 timer switching circuit should be powered seperate !) Now the heat generated in the load resistor should have heated the water bath some more than the energy contained in the cap W= 0.5 CV^2 ! If you use a very big bifilar coil with many windings this measurement should prove it very obviously ! Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 02:30:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA24471; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 02:27:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 02:27:47 -0700 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Overunity proof of TEP circuit already there... ! Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:26:53 +0100 Message-Id: <19970930112653.5c9692b6.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"XBQa4.0.G-5.HOCCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1036 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 18:05 29.09.1997 -0700, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >Hi Jack! > >> I don't mean to sound crabby...well, yes I do. There have been >> several posts lately that repeated claims for OU devices that >> simply cannot be verified. I WANT to see OU become a reality, but >> such claims only make it all that much more difficult for the person >> that actually accomplishes the feat to convince anyone to even look >> at it. I've hear many inventors cry wolf, when there is none. >> >> I'll entertain any idea, yes even Fred's :), > >well, THANKS :^) > > >who knows how or where >> the big leap forward will occur. > However, when the claims of success >> are made, I want see the figures...I want to touch the device...I want >> it to work for anyone that has the skill to build it.... > >I TOTALLY agree. That is why I am focussing on devices that are made of >easily available components, are solid state, and are easily testable, that >is, don't contain complex waveforms or two way flows of energy etc. > >Personally, I will claim that things MIGHT work and should be tried. If I >ever actually HAD a good idea that worked, I know, not likely Jack :-) I >would probably pack it up and send it to Scott Little with nothing in the >box except instructions on how to turn it on, and let HIM make the claims! > >Fred > Well, we will soon try to build ourself such a setup and measure the heat at the resistor with a water bath calorimetric, so all doubts could be overcome with real measurement results. First, in a week or so Dipl. Physicist Dieter Bauer will present the formulars. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 02:32:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA25134; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 02:31:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 02:31:43 -0700 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Overunity proof of TEP circuit already there... ! Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 05:27:51 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: References: <3.0.1.32.19970929160608.0069d634@palacenet.net> <3.0.1.32.19970929160608.0069d634@palacenet.net> <3.0.1.32.19970929221117.006e0a48@palacenet.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970929221117.006e0a48@palacenet.net> Lines: 15 Resent-Message-ID: <"ygFX81.0.d86.zRCCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1037 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >It's not as precise as a bolometer, but it's a damn site better >than a radio shack thermometer and a resistor. Shall I recite >the myriad sources of error in THAT measurement? Please. I'm sure we could all use a refresher course once in a while. I believe I said as much about the Radio Shack thermo setup. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 05:15:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id FAA04915 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 05:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 05:15:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: little@eden.com Tue Sep 30 05:15:42 1997 Received: from natasha.eden.com (root@natasha.eden.com [199.171.21.14]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA04888; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 05:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matrix.eden.com (net-7-178.austin.eden.com [206.81.247.178]) by natasha.eden.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA21996; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 07:15:42 -0500 (CDT) Old-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 07:15:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709301215.HAA21996@natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little@mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, "vortex" , From: Scott Little Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: At 11:06 PM 9/29/97 -0700, Fred Epps wrote: >Now, before anyone >protests, I understand that the angular momentum changes as the masses move >to the outside edge but this does not change the total energy of the disc... Yes it does. The KE of any element of a spinning wheel is given by: E = (0.5)(m)(r^2)(w^2) where m = mass, r = radius, w = angular velocity. To check this, replace r*w with v (tangential velocity) and you get: E = (0.5)(m)(v^2) the familiar linear version of the KE eqn. So, provided you have a drive motor to maintain w constant, as the masses move outward (i.e. as r increases) the KE of the spinning structure increases. Have you ever wondered why an ice skater can increase the rate of his spin by pulling in his arms tightly? If your statement above was correct, the skater's spin rate would NOT increase! If springs are stretched in the process then, obviously, the total energy of the spinning structure increases even further as the masses move out...by precisely the amount of PE stored in the springs. Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 06:53:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id GAA16905; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 06:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 06:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Comments: ( Received on ftpbox.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <970930085247.ZM10550@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:52:47 -0500 In-Reply-To: Peter Jason Aldo "Re: THE SPINDIZZY" (Sep 29, 8:53pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"gn4vV3.0.z74._GGCq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1038 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 29, 8:53pm, Peter Jason Aldo wrote: > The turbine basically consists of a rotating hollow drum into > which water is pumped via a hollow shaft . Water jets are located around > the periphery of the drum. Reportedly, when the drum reaches a certain > speed, the water is propelled from the jets by centrifugal force of sufficient > enough velocity to cause enough reactice forcet o spin the drum without > any outside power sorce. Reportedly by whom? I can see centripetal force pumping the water. I can see pumping the water to create centripetal force. I do not see how each can perpetuate the other, closed system or not. All this thing does is convert existing or imparted kinetic and potential energy. It's operation can only be expressed in degrees of efficiency. Humor me a moment, where do you see the excess energy coming FROM? It has to come from somewhere. -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 06:58:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id GAA17655; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 06:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 06:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7129AED99644D011B55500805FBEB857CF7C02@xch-evt-03.ca.boeing.com> From: "Hinman, Jeffrey M" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: THE SPINDIZZY Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 06:56:14 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"DrJPE.0.kJ4.1LGCq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1039 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Fred. << Clip >> The C-force, or any inertial force, must be converted (without use of power) from a force directed away from the center of rotation to a force along the rotational vector, in other words, at right angles. It is possible to do this but it is damn hard, I have been trying to figure out a way to do it for years. I believe this is how the Bessel wheel worked. I believe this is how the spindizzy works. << Clip >> I would suggest drawing up free-body diagrams of these ideas. I remember solving similar problems in college in Statics and Dynamics courses. The key is breaking down all of the forces and bodies. You'll find that the water turbine is completely conservative (you must account for the energy input to the water to increase it's kinetic energy - i.e. pressure differential or radial velocity). << Clip >> THE WHEEL IS A FREE ENERGY DEVICE! << Clip >> The disc with ratchets and springs is also completely conservative - no free energy. Energy must first be put into the springs and masses when the disk is spun up. It is nothing more than a complex fly wheel. In fact, it would be less efficient than a similar mass (same cg of mass from center) flywheel because of the frictional losses from the pawls and springs. Moving the masses out will decrease rotational speed (omega), but the potential energy remains the same. Jeff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 07:17:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id HAA21178; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 07:15:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 07:15:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970930081116.0077a1bc@palacenet.net> X-Sender: mules@palacenet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:11:16 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jack DeMule Subject: Re: Overunity proof of TEP circuit already there... ! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19970929221117.006e0a48@palacenet.net> <3.0.1.32.19970929160608.0069d634@palacenet.net> <3.0.1.32.19970929160608.0069d634@palacenet.net> <3.0.1.32.19970929221117.006e0a48@palacenet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HAi793.0.pA5.ScGCq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1040 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Bob, All... At 05:27 9/30/97 -0400, Bob Paddock wrote: > >>It's not as precise as a bolometer, but it's a damn site better >>than a radio shack thermometer and a resistor. Shall I recite >>the myriad sources of error in THAT measurement? > >Please. I'm sure we could all use a refresher course once in >a while. I believe I said as much about the Radio Shack >thermo setup. The measurement of the heat from a resistor sounds very attractive at the macro level....but it isn't that easy. The thermocouple must be of fine gauge wire since it acts as a heat sink. Even using a thin thermocouple, say 28 AWG, this introduces considerable error due the impedance between the thermocouple and the source of the heat, which is the element _within_ the resistor body. The slightest air currents in the room will create huge errors. Devices that require power, like the LM34, suffer from self heating and are TOTALLY inappropriate. Calibration of temperature measuring devices at the ice point, and boiling point, IF you use distilled water, isn't difficult. How linear is the indicator? Some inexpensive instruments that I've tested were outrageously bad. Well, you say, build a calorimeter, and the objections cited regarding the thermocouple go away....wrong. Every port into the calorimeter is a path for errors to insinuate themselves. Oh, BTW, there is a another problem with calorimeters...convection currents and imperfect insulation cause a thermal gradient within the medium...and you can't stir it as that's an energy input. As with many instruments that appear simple, the construction of a good calorimeter for use that these low power levels is an art. I spent months building mine, which I used in determining transformer efficiency. If you don't have the patience for a mineral oil bath to stabilize, use deionized water...it's better than trying to electrically insulate everything, as increasing the thermal impedance between the heat source and the medium just makes things all that worse The most accurate method that I know of is the use of a bolometer, or thermopile type true rms meter If you can find an HP3304 (I think that's the model...now discontinued) grab it. Many newer TRMS meters use the analog function ICs that you mentioned...to put it bluntly, they bite. They don't handle high crest factors very well, and they are susceptible to EMI induced errors. One avenue you didn't explore, instead of building a calorimeter, build your own thermal to resistance converter..YSI will sell you the thermistors, the resistance wire isn't difficult to obtain...all you need to add is a small vacuum enclosure (I'd use glass tubing with house keeper seals). In closing...if the oscilloscope is a navy surplus OS-8 or some inexpensive heap of rubbish, you get crappy measurements from it. A used Tektronix 7604 mainframe, with plug-ins, runs in the $400 neighborhood. In some cases I've used a C-30 camera to record the wave forms, cut them out, and weighed the area with laboratory scale...not as good as constant density graph paper, but it's not all that bad. Best Regards, JD ------------------------------------------------------------ Read not to contradict and confute, nor believe and take for granted...but to weight and consider. -Bacon mules@palacenet.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 10:46:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA16163; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:46:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:46:00 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970930134218_-1162201561@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Subject: MER (Magnetic Energy Research)(change of name) Resent-Message-ID: <"wRhDO2.0.Ay3.JhJCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1042 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: After going over comments on the name MERF (Magnetic Energy Research Forum), the name most liked is MER (Magnetic Energy Research). So any post that are connected with the Muller or Werjefelt "type" designs should have subject as MER. Thanks, Butch LaFonte Note: MER is pronounced as mer is in mer-maid From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 11:19:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA00280; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:18:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:18:51 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970930141642_741925886@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Subject: (MER) Werjefelt documents given ok for web! Resent-Message-ID: <"dJ0v4.0.A4.8AKCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1043 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I just spoke with Mr. Werjefelt on the phone, and he has given me the ok to put his documents on the web. Does any one have any suggestions as how best to convert 8 1/2 x 11 documents for email and web sites. Thanks, Butch From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 11:46:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA09075; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:42:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:42:19 -0700 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: (MER) Werjefelt documents given ok for web! Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:42:34 +0100 Message-Id: <19970930204234.5e934f33.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"Nys133.0.LD2.6WKCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1044 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 14:18 30.09.1997 -0400, freenrg-l@eskimo.com wrote: >I just spoke with Mr. Werjefelt on the phone, and he has given me the ok to >put his documents on the web. Does any one have any suggestions as how best >to convert 8 1/2 x 11 documents for email and web sites. >Thanks, >Butch > Just scan them in GIF format and then put it onto a WEB server or send it to me and I will put the GIF files onto my www.overunity.de server, if you want to. Regards, Stefan. > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 11:51:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA14468 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:51:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:51:33 -0700 X-Envelope-From: lancekeene@usa.net Tue Sep 30 11:51:29 1997 Received: from matrix.ops.usa.net (matrix.ops.usa.net [204.68.25.79]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA14431 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:51:28 -0700 From: lancekeene@usa.net Received: (qmail 15796 invoked from network); 30 Sep 1997 18:44:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO db01.netaddress.usa.net) (204.68.24.5) by matrix.ops.usa.net with SMTP; 30 Sep 1997 18:44:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 18627 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Sep 1997 18:44:18 -0000 Message-ID: <19970930184418.18618.qmail@db01.netaddress.usa.net> Old-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:44:17 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: leaving list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: I hate doing this as much as you all hate it, but would someone please email me instructions on leaving? Thanks and goodbye for now. Next time I'll save the instructions. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 11:54:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA15160; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:53:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:53:11 -0700 X-Sender: leoguitar@mail.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com From: harti@harti.com (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Overunity proof TEP article ONLINE ! Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:40:57 +0100 Message-Id: <19970930204057.5e91d225.in@pop3.vossnet.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"ts6gp.0.Vi3.KgKCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1045 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, Dieter Bauer has just written the article about the efficiency of the TEP. You will find it here: http://206.184.238.67/poover/tep.htm It is the article of the proof of overunity for the TEP circuit. P.S.: As I just move my domains to new IP numbers you will also soon find it at www.overunity.de Regards, Stefan. Well, we will soon try to build ourself such a setup and measure the heat at the resistor with a water bath calorimetric, so all doubts could be overcome with real measurement results. First, in a week or so Dipl. Physicist Dieter Bauer will present the formulars. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 12:24:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA27981; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:24:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:24:04 -0700 Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Frank C. Earl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:28:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: DOG pause Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"3QUZ_3.0.yq6.H7LCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1046 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > As previously mentioned, I am bound not to disclose several (comparitively > straightforward) aspects of the design without a chance of some kind of > fruitful outcome, i.e. a realistic cooperative project. Sorry, but this is > not my decision. That's sad. You're going to likely be laboring at the getting materials stage for many months and perhaps forever with that decision. You should attempt at least one more time to convince the inventor of the DOG of the folly of this decision. Past projects came about and were rapidly determined to be under uinty- because the people decided to share. It is VERY likely that several people in the past have succeeded at providing over-unity operation- but they took the knowlege of how it works WITH them when they died because they were tight-lipped. Tesla, Moray, etc. had devices that appeared to all qualified observers to be an over-unity device of some sort. In the case of Tesla, he definitely took it with him to his grave. In the case of Moray, we didn't loose it (Yet!!) but it seems that his heirs have ideas of their own and don't intend on sharing the secret with the intent on making lots of money off the idea. Others that have something that appear to be over-unity have the same flawed thinking. It is of NO use to anyone if it is, in fact, over-unity unless it's being USED by people. You can't make a single dollar (except by milking investors for them) this way. > A few things I can say about the invention are it: > > Contains no coils. > Is wholey capacitive. > Uses a conventional, low current HV power supply. > Does not fully load PS when current is drawn. > Involves translation of electrons from the vacuum. > Barium excluded, cost would be under $100. What kind of power output would one expect from the device? > I know some readers are suitably qualified in electronics, but whether or > not they accept my offer on the above basis is their own decision, and > obviously a matter of faith. As I can provide no further info here until > then, it may be more appropriate to respond off-list for now. Sorry, I can't take anything like this solely on faith. I don't work that way when it concerns things like this. It's too easy to get mislead. -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 12:24:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA28007; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:24:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:24:08 -0700 Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Frank C. Earl" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:28:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: To Frank Roed and Frank Earl (Thornson drive) Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"3XFOy.0.Tr6.M7LCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1047 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > Frank Roed > Frank Earl > Frank Stenger > Frank Roarty > Fred Sparber Yow! That's a LOT of Franks and Freds there... > Must be because it is the FRee energy list :-) Yeah, must be that... ;-> -- Frank C. Earl Earl Consulting Services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys general acceptance of these terms. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 12:37:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA30896; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:31:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:31:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199709301931.MAA16300@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" , Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:51:17 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"754Y73.0._X7.UELCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1048 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Scott! Thanks for your response! > > >Now, before anyone > >protests, I understand that the angular momentum changes as the masses move > >to the outside edge but this does not change the total energy of the disc... > > Yes it does. The KE of any element of a spinning wheel is given by: > > E = (0.5)(m)(r^2)(w^2) > > where m = mass, r = radius, w = angular velocity. To check this, replace > r*w with v (tangential velocity) and you get: > > E = (0.5)(m)(v^2) > > the familiar linear version of the KE eqn. > > So, provided you have a drive motor to maintain w constant, as the masses > move outward (i.e. as r increases) the KE of the spinning structure increases. Sorry, I should have been more clear what I was describing. And I did make an incorrect statement. Suppose the disc with the masses near the center is given a certain angular velocity. Then the masses are released to go to the outside edge through centrifugal force (yes I know it isn't real, but SOMETHING will move the masses out to the outside edge). While this is occuring there is NO additional drive impulse given to the disc. That is the assumption that is different from the one given in your example. In this situation the rotational K.E is conserved as is the angular momentum (contrary to my statement above). The disc is moving more slowly, but it contains the same amount of K.E. and has the same A.M. This could only be false by violating C of E. (don't you just love acronyms :-) --- no energy has been added or subtracted from the disc along the direction of movement. To quote my physics textbook: "The energy, linear momentum, and angular momentum of an isolated system all remain constant" BUT, wait, I forgot about those springs... where did THAT energy come from? :-) Maybe the spinning disc is not an isolated system. Maybe as Mach and now Assis say, the inertial force is caused by the total mass of the universe. Or maybe as Hal says, the inertial force is due to the ZPE. Or maybe as Jennison says, it is due to electron standing waves. In any case THE DISC NOW HAS MORE ENERGY IN IT THAN JUST THE ROTATIONAL COMPONENT. > > Have you ever wondered why an ice skater can increase the rate of his spin > by pulling in his arms tightly? If your statement above was correct, the > skater's spin rate would NOT increase! > > If springs are stretched in the process then, obviously, the total energy of > the spinning structure increases even further as the masses move out...by > precisely the amount of PE stored in the springs. Consider a skater in the opposite situation with his hands close by his body, spinning at constant velocity. He has to use a small force to hold his hands near his body. when he releases his hands to do as they will, they lift up and and away from his body due to that SOMETHING I referred to earlier. I know, I just went out in the back yard to try it :-) Now according to the given equations, as his hands go out from his body, the rotational K.E and A.M are conserved-- He moves more slowly, but his moment of inertia has increased. BUT HIS HANDS ARE LIFTED ABOVE THE GROUND! There is stored gravitational energy in his hands! Isn't this right? Where does this energy come from? Or is this energy not "real" energy? Or is there SOME WAY this gravitational energy is being subtracted from the total energy of rotation, contrary to all laws I know of? Scott, thanks again for your response, but I hope it is obvious why I don't find it satisfactory... Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 12:37:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA30909; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:31:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:31:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199709301931.MAA17661@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:29:40 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-oq7M.0.RY7.WELCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1050 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jeff, Thanks for taking the time to answer my simple physics question. In my opinion, it is still not answered. > THE WHEEL IS A FREE ENERGY DEVICE! > > > The disc with ratchets and springs is also completely conservative - no > free energy. Energy must first be put into the springs and masses when > the disk is spun up. This is a misunderstanding of the experimental situation. when the disc is spun up the masses are held near the center and they are not compressing the springs. When the masses are released they move under their own power to the outside edge and compress the springs, then to be locked into place by a ratchet. It is nothing more than a complex fly wheel. In > fact, it would be less efficient than a similar mass (same cg of mass > from center) flywheel because of the frictional losses from the pawls > and springs. Yes, it is not an efficient system in the usual sense. It is an illustration of a principle. Moving the masses out will decrease rotational speed > (omega), but the potential energy remains the same. Which is exactly my point! The rotational energy remains the same regardless of the position of the masses. Agreed? What you're forgetting is that the masses will move to the outside edge ON THEIR OWN POWER. I am not "moving the masses", they move by this mysterious thing that we call centrifugal force (if we want to irk physics professors ;-). Consider the simplest possible situation, a disc with two radial grooves and metal balls held near the center by some mechanism. It is spun up to a constant velocity. The mechanism holding the balls is released. The balls roll to the outside edge. Now what are the energy dynamics of this situation? 1) We are agreed that the rotational energy remains the same. The velocity of the disc decreases but the moment of inertia increases so it all evens out, right? 2) Will you agree that the balls have moved under their own power? We did not apply a radial force to them. For a mass to be moved from point A to point B work (energy over time) must be done. Correct? 3) Where did this energy come from? It did not come from the energy applied to the disc to get it spinning. We have already established that this energy is conserved. Where did this energy come from? I'm not asking for a label, like centrifugal force, I'm asking for the source of the energy. Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 12:37:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA31020; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:31:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:31:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199709301931.MAA18004@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Overunity proof of TEP circuit already there... ! Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:37:10 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EAWru.0.OY7.WELCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1049 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jack, Thanks for the lesson in the difficulties of energy measurement. > In closing...if the oscilloscope is a navy surplus OS-8 or some inexpensive > heap of rubbish, you get crappy measurements from it. A used Tektronix > 7604 mainframe, with plug-ins, runs in the $400 neighborhood. In some > cases I've used a C-30 camera to record the wave forms, cut them out, and > weighed the area with laboratory scale...not as good as constant density > graph paper, but it's not all that bad. > Good idea! For some quick estimates I'll put the cutouts on a poster board backing and weigh them with my not- so- laboratory scale! Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 12:51:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA07536; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:50:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:50:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199709301931.MAA17822@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "vortex" , "Free Energy" Subject: Fw: EUROPE TRIP , METHERNITHA AND COLER DEVICE Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:53:44 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0bdMV3.0.zq1.EWLCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1050 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------- > From: kami > To: FRED > Subject: EUROPE TRIP , METHERNITHA AND COLER DEVICE > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 1997 4:07 PM > > HI FRED > I am back from Europe , actually for a few days already , however > other commitments prohibeted me accessing my computer. > > The results from Europe are as follows 1) Nobody has any > knowledge of Coler , his devices or relatives. > > 2) The book I was looking for is unavailable there so I would > appreciate it if you could help me in ordering it (MANUAL OF FREE > ENERGY DEVICES AND SYSTEMS) If you can do so please let me > know so that we can make arrangements for payment etc. > > 3)Please pass the following info on to all those interested in > Methernitha :According to Mr Bosshard from Methernitha it is now > impossible to view the Testaticka. Since the inception of the > Testaticka project in 1980 numerous people have seen the machine > and regretably this resulted in lots of info being leaked out ie. onto > the internet as such the present info on the net is more than they > ever intended to release. Due to the afore mentioned and economic > pressure from various sources Methernitha formed a company in an > attempt to stop any form of closure or attempt to halt their research > and instituted a selection process to view the machine. However > once again more info was made public without their permission > because of this it is no longer possible to view the machine , > however if you so wish you may visit Methernitha and discuss energy > related subjects with them however it was made very clear that no > further info on the machine would be provided to anyone , as what is > currently on the net is already in their opinion too much. According to > them the original machine was only an experiment for their use only , > part of their goal too make the world a better place to live in > however pressure from researchers and economists made the > situation unmanageable. Don't get me wrong here these people are > very far from unfriendly in fact they are some of the most helpful I > have come across in my researches , however they request that > people leave them alone regarding the Testaticka and continue with > their own research (Something which they encourage) I realise that it > sounds as if I have made myself spokesman for Methernitha however > I too feel strongly that they should be left alone , after speaking with > them I realise that these are good intellectual and spiritual people and > they do not deserve the economic and other pressures presently > being put on them. > > 4)RQM won't currently talk to the public. > > My example of the Coler device is finished today (finally) tomorrow I > begin with tests. It is with some interest that I noted the work you > and Jean Louis Naudin have done , I only briefly saw this , looks > interesting however , I haven't had time to look at it properly yet. > > Please make my apologies known to Tameer who I said I would try > and contact regarding free energy whilst I was in Europe , I just didn't > have time what with work and everything. > > Hope to hear from you soon > > REGARDS > MARTIN > kami@iafrica.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 13:18:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA18604; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:17:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:17:27 -0700 Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <970930151711.ZM12270@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 15:17:11 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Frank C. Earl" "Re: DOG pause" (Sep 30, 2:37pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DOG pause Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"80B0b3.0.YY4.MvLCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1051 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 30, 2:37pm, Frank C. Earl wrote: > > As previously mentioned, I am bound not to disclose several (comparitively > > straightforward) aspects of the design without a chance of some kind of > > fruitful outcome, i.e. a realistic cooperative project. Sorry, but this is > > not my decision. > > That's sad. You're going to likely be laboring at the getting > materials stage for many months and perhaps forever with that > decision. You should attempt at least one more time to convince the > inventor of the DOG of the folly of this decision. Hey guys, ever hear of signing a Non-Disclosure / Non-Compete Agreement? Seems to work great for the rest of the world when dealing with sensitive or proprietary information. Get with the program. -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 13:38:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA15713; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7129AED99644D011B55500805FBEB857CF7C04@xch-evt-03.ca.boeing.com> From: "Hinman, Jeffrey M" To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: THE SPINDIZZY Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:05:44 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"6205o.0.Or3.BAMCq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1052 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Fred. < Clip > > This is a misunderstanding of the experimental situation. when the > disc is > spun up the masses are held near the center and they are not > compressing > the springs. When the masses are released they move under their own > power > to the outside edge and compress the springs, then to be locked into > place > by a ratchet. < Clip > The rotating wheel imparts energy to the masses as they move to the edge of the disk. Inertial momentum is conserved. The wheel in whole slows down, but energy is conserved. The rotational centripetal force is put into the springs. If you keep the pawls locked and stop the wheel, it will stop with less energy than when it was started, the deficit being stored in the springs. > Yes, it is not an efficient system in the usual sense. It is an > illustration of a principle. My point is that energy is conserved. The most efficient storage of rotational energy is a frictionless flywheel. Any additional part and movement will add losses. > Moving the masses out will decrease rotational speed > > (omega), but the potential energy remains the same. > > Which is exactly my point! The rotational energy remains the same > regardless of the position of the masses. Agreed? > What you're forgetting is that the masses will move to the outside > edge ON > THEIR OWN POWER. I am not "moving the masses", they move by this > mysterious thing that we call centrifugal force (if we want to irk > physics > professors ;-). The masses do not move on their own power. They are trying to follow a straight path (Newton's law), but the wheel is constantly changing its course. This is the centrepital force. The force the mass "feels" is the centrifugal force. The masses gain energy as they move outward on the radius, "stealing" the energy from the disk. The disk rotation may slow due to increase in inertia, but the TOTAL energy is conserved. > Consider the simplest possible situation, a disc with two radial > grooves > and metal balls held near the center by some mechanism. > It is spun up to a constant velocity. The mechanism holding the balls > is > released. The balls roll to the outside edge. > Now what are the energy dynamics of this situation? > 1) We are agreed that the rotational energy remains the same. The > velocity of the disc decreases but the moment of inertia increases so > it > all evens out, right? > Yes > 2) Will you agree that the balls have moved under their own power? > We did > not apply a radial force to them. For a mass to be moved from point A > to > point B work (energy over time) must be done. Correct? > No. The balls were ACCELERATED - their tangental velocity INCREASED as they moved out from the center. This acceleration was a tangental force that decelerated the disk. > 3) Where did this energy come from? It did not come from the energy > applied to the disc to get it spinning. We have already established > that > this energy is conserved. > It did come from the inertia of the disk. Energy is conserved. > Where did this energy come from? I'm not asking for a label, like > centrifugal force, I'm asking for the source of the energy. > It comes from Accelerating the balls from the lower tangental velocity to a higher tangental velocity. That takes energy. The key is understanding that there are two vectors - radial and tangental. The springs compress from the radial velocity input, but at the expense of the tangential velocity. This is a typical Dynamics course book question. I bet you could find this exact problem in a text. Anyone have a Dynamics text at hand? > Fred > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 13:48:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA17331; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:44:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:44:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Jiyani@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:42:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970930164141_-1832648724@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: MERF (Magnetic Energy Research Forum) (From Butch) Resent-Message-ID: <"UnDGu1.0.eE4.cIMCq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1053 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: If you must have an acronym how about G.R.A.V.I.T.Y. Get Real And Verify It To Yourself From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 14:24:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA15309 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:23:55 -0700 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:23:55 -0700 X-Envelope-From: little@eden.com Tue Sep 30 14:23:47 1997 Received: from natasha.eden.com (root@natasha.eden.com [199.171.21.14]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA15186; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:23:45 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (net-6-070.austin.eden.com [206.81.247.70]) by natasha.eden.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA24396; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:23:42 -0500 (CDT) Old-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:23:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709302123.QAA24396@natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little@mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, "Free Energy" , From: Scott Little Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: At 11:51 9/30/97 -0700, Fred Epps wrote: >Scott, thanks again for your response, but I hope it is obvious why I don't >find it satisfactory... It is. Thank you for such a clear explanation. Also, you deserve at least honorable mention in the Cloak of Confusion awards for thinking up this spring-loaded spinning mass device. It's not immediately obvious how energy will be conserved in yr wheel but I think I can point us in the right direction at least. Consider two wheels with masses that can slide in radial tracks. One wheel has springs pulling the masses towards the center. The other does not have springs. Both wheels are spun up with the masses held in the center-most position to some intial identical KE. Then the masses are released. In the wheel with no springs, the masses will fly all the way out and smash into the ends of their tracks dissipating their considerable radial KE as heat upon impact. The rpm will decrease accordingly so that KE.final = KE.initial - heat energy....right? In the wheel with springs, the masses will travel out more slowly. They will just touch the ends of their tracks since we have cleverly adjusted the spring force to balance the C-force at that point. The energy that was wasted in the first wheel as heat is now stored in the springs. Final rpm of both wheels is the same. The one without springs is warmer than the other. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little@eden.com (email) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 14:29:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA17815; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:28:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:28:32 -0700 From: HLafonte@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970930171506_-1430660518@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: MERF (Magnetic Energy Research Forum) (From Butch) Resent-Message-ID: <"rflVT.0.2M4.-xMCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1054 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: No From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 15:50:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA20008; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 15:44:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 15:44:04 -0700 Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender johnste@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com ) From: "John E. Steck" Message-Id: <970930174326.ZM12870@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:43:26 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Fred Epps" "Re: THE SPINDIZZY" (Sep 30, 2:56pm) References: <199709301931.MAA17661@mail1.halcyon.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"UAnCJ.0.Ku4.n2OCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1055 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sep 30, 2:56pm, Fred Epps wrote: > Consider the simplest possible situation, a disc with two radial grooves > and metal balls held near the center by some mechanism. > It is spun up to a constant velocity. The mechanism holding the balls is > released. The balls roll to the outside edge. > Now what are the energy dynamics of this situation? > 1) We are agreed that the rotational energy remains the same. The > velocity of the disc decreases but the moment of inertia increases so it > all evens out, right? -- Rotational energy in this case IS inertia. V decreases. PE decreases. KE increases. Inertia does not change. (I misspoke in my previous post and stated V increased with KE for your example.) > 2) Will you agree that the balls have moved under their own power? We did > not apply a radial force to them. For a mass to be moved from point A to > point B work (energy over time) must be done. Correct? -- No. Entropy is the motive force. Balls in, is a higher energy state. (sounds like a sex ed. class now. ha ha) > 3) Where did this energy come from? It did not come from the energy > applied to the disc to get it spinning. We have already established that > this energy is conserved. -- Didn't come from anywhere. It already existed in the system. You created the PE at spin up by applying KE to the mass, converted it back at release. No new energy. Couldn't find it immediately, but wander around this site. I am certain it is there: http://www-sci.lib.uci.edu/HSG/Ref3.html -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 16:13:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA00284; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:13:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:13:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3431B03A.2098@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 19:06:50 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydronic and Rogers GIFs References: <199709252330.JAA12620@nornet.nor.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"j_NIi.0.I4.DUOCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1056 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Peter Nielsen wrote: > > Thanks to Robin's scanner, I now have GIFs of the article on Minto's > Hydronic Transmitter and a Rogers' antenna patent. > > I will post these privately on request. > > Peter Nielsen Peter, I'd love to see the GIF of the Rogers antenna patent! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 16:36:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA10212; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:36:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:36:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3431B581.53FC@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 19:29:21 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT Mk4 Progress Report References: <342C5287.2325563A@microtronics.com.au> <342C639E.796D@math.ucla.edu> <342C81A0.80ADB549@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uk7sj.0.pU2.UpOCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1057 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > Hi Barry, > > 7 months seems like a small time in going from an idea to mass > reproducable product. Mass market is not what was promised Greg. 7 months is a lot longer than five minutes. > How is the Hot Fusion Research going? Shipping soon? No, but it does meet many of its claims! Personally, I'd ship what was promised before thinking about injection molding parts. If my conscience did not permit that, I'd refund the money plus intrest. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 16:55:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA21976; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:55:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:55:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3431BA01.5A15@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 19:48:33 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bismuth and Magnesium in EM Fields References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8DLiX1.0.yM5.I5PCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1058 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jim Richardson wrote: > > >> From: Patrick Bailey > >> So, why has Bismuth been eliminated via "Federal Law" from being used > >in > >> the production of permanent magnets because of "heath issues", > > > >Having not seen the relevant law (do you have a copy?), I'm highly > >perplexed as to what health issues are involved. Not only does > >Pepto-Bismol(tm) contain bismuth subsalicylate, but bismuth has > >recently been approved as a replacement for lead for hunting waterfowl. > > (Lead shot was banned because of environmental concerns, and some > >people for reasons unknown to me don't want to use steel shot.) > > > > steel shot is not as dense as lead (no suprise I suppose) and thus doesn't > carry as much energy out to range for the same volume of shot. So if you > want to hunt geese, you have to bump up in bore to 10 ga to get a reliable > kill at median range. Lead (and bismuth) allow you to use a lighter bore > without compromising on effectiveness (which often results in wounded birds > getting away. rather than a clean kill in my stewpot! :) Correct, and steel shot ruins the bore very quickly. Ruining a good shotgun while wounding birds was quite unpopular. Larger bores also wound the shooter, and are less popular. > (As an aside, it is difficult to understand the banning of lead shot in > waterfoul hunting without the banning of lead weights for fishing in those > self same waters.. still, the govt doesn't usually make sense, no reason to > expect it to make sense over this) The idea being you get the fishing weight back most of the time? A 12 gage can pump an ounce of lead per shot. Whats a fishing weight weigh? > >"I don't want the world -- I just want your half." > > --T.M.B.G. Oh, you have'nt seen my half. You might not like it. But you can still get barrium ferrite magnets there. This 'ban' is a rumor. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 17:31:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA09797; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:30:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:30:21 -0700 X-Sender: warlock@mail.eskimo.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199709281851.LAA17748@mail1.halcyon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:11:22 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jim Richardson Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY Resent-Message-ID: <"mzPgL2.0.qO2.RcPCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1059 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >> I believe it IS possible to tap centrifugal force directly but >> unfortunately in order to do so the disc needs to be accelerated and >> deaccelerated causing much energy loss in the driver. The gyroscopic >> >Hello, >The CEACU water turbine (a reaction turbine)is supposed to utilize >centrifugal force to propel >itself. The turbine basically consists of a rotating hollow drum into >which water >is pumped via a hollow shaft . Water jets are located around the periphery >of the drum. Reportedly, when the drum reaches a certain speed, the >water is propelled from the jets by centrifugal force of sufficient >enough velocity to cause enough reactice forcet o spin the drum without >any >outside power sorce. Since the drum always contains the same amount of >water inside it, the weight remains the same, and therefore it acts as a >flywheel. The only energy required to keep a flywheel running is the >energy needed to overcome bearing loss and windage. As water is exited >from the jets, more water is sucked into the drum through the central >shaft. Supposedly, the faster the wheel spins, the more centrifugal force >develops causing the water to exit the jets at a higher velocity which >causes the drum to rotate faster, which furthur increases the centrifugal >force.....etc, etc, etc... until the turbine blows apart or flys off its >bearings.Does anyone have any opinion on why this couldn't work or where >energy losses would occur that I have missed? What about the friction lost to the water viscosity? pushh water through a tube, and it gets hot. there isn't a lot of friction, but it's there. Jim Richardson Anarchist, pagan and proud of it. http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 17:31:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA09904; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:30:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:30:38 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970930085247.ZM10550@me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> References: Peter Jason Aldo "Re: THE SPINDIZZY" (Sep 29 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:27:39 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY Resent-Message-ID: <"XKcwO1.0.WQ2.hcPCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1060 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John - > Reportedly by whom? I can see centripetal > force pumping the water. I can see pumping > the water to create centripetal force. I do not > see how each can perpetuate the other, closed > system or not. Reminds me of the simple pump I "discovered" a few years ago while playing with a snorkel on the water surface. Simply whip it around with one end in the water and the other end making a wider circle than the intake end and it pumps water. With a short piece of hose, you can move quite a bit of water out the hose this way. I see the pump action, and I see the water simply flying out radially in the usual way. What's a little different here is the suggestion that the pressure of the water, presumably by having the 'exhaust' jets set tangental to the rim, adds some thrust. Thing is, I can't see why this would ever result in overunity. The jets would accelerate water backwards along the tangent line, which is the opposite of what the pumping does in the first place. At the fastest at 100% efficiency, the water would leave at the speed of the rim - at a dead stop in the lab frame of reference. Now if it came out even a little bit *faster* to the rear on that tangent...but it never does, does it. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 17:52:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA20022; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:52:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:52:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199710010051.RAA30969@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:33:57 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6dMsU3.0.Nu4.-wPCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1061 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jeff, > > This is a misunderstanding of the experimental situation. when the > > disc is > > spun up the masses are held near the center and they are not > > compressing > > the springs. When the masses are released they move under their own > > power > > to the outside edge and compress the springs, then to be locked into > > place > > by a ratchet. > < Clip > > > The rotating wheel imparts energy to the masses as they move to the edge > of the disk. Inertial momentum is conserved. The wheel in whole slows > down, but energy is conserved. The rotational centripetal force is put > into the springs. If you keep the pawls locked and stop the wheel, it > will stop with less energy than when it was started, the deficit being > stored in the springs. I don't see it that way. The rotational kinetic energy of the disc is the same after the masses are at the outside edge. It is in a different form-- the disc is slower, but it has more torque. If you had a 100% efficient motor/generator attached to the axle, the amount of work done on the disc to get it up to speed with the masses in the center is equal to the amount of work that can be taken out of the disc with the masses at the edge. It will take LONGER to get the energy out because the wheel is slower, but the energy is the same because the torque is greater. > > > Yes, it is not an efficient system in the usual sense. It is an > > illustration of a principle. > > My point is that energy is conserved. The most efficient storage of > rotational energy is a frictionless flywheel. Any additional part and > movement will add losses. True in reality but a thought experiment can still be instructive, at least for me :-) If you have a widget that moves masses toward the center of the rotating flywheel has the flywheel lost stored energy? Can less energy be extracted from the flywheel? Or, does the flywheel move faster but have less torque, so the ROTATIONAL energy remains the same? > > The masses do not move on their own power. They are trying to follow a > straight path (Newton's law), but the wheel is constantly changing its > course. This is the centrepital force. The force the mass "feels" is > the centrifugal force. Well, that's my point. I was simply trying to make it clear that I am not pushing the masses with my hand or a machine. > > The masses gain energy as they move outward on the radius, "stealing" > the energy from the disk. I don't get it! How are the moving masses stealing energy from the disc? The kinetic energy of the disc is THE SAME when the masses are on the outside edge and when they are in the middle. Rotational kinetic energy = 1/2 moment of inertia * angular velocity squared As the masses move to the outside edge the moment of inertia is increasing as the angular velocity is decreasing, so the total KE(r) remains the same, which is what you are saying here: The disk rotation may slow due to increase in > inertia, but the TOTAL energy is conserved. BUT, the masses moved, without you or me touching them. If I put my springs back, energy will be stored in the springs when the masses get to the outside edge. If all the KE is extracted from the disc with the masses locked into place, I still see the energy of the springs as being EXTRA energy. > > > > 1) We are agreed that the rotational energy remains the same. The > > velocity of the disc decreases but the moment of inertia increases so > > it > > all evens out, right? > > > Yes > > > No. The balls were ACCELERATED - their tangental velocity INCREASED as > they moved out from the center. This acceleration was a tangental force > that decelerated the disk. Agreed-- no problem. > > > The key is understanding that there are two vectors - radial and > tangental. The springs compress from the radial velocity input, but at > the expense of the tangential velocity. TRUE! But when you look at the rotational ENERGY of the disc (rather than its tangential velocity) after the springs are compressed, it is the SAME energy you started out with, becasue the moment of inertia changed. > This is a typical Dynamics course book question. I bet you could find > this exact problem in a text. Anyone have a Dynamics text at hand? Got one. Got several, in fact. I will look and look some more until I have figured it out :-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 17:53:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA20113; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:52:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:52:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199710010052.RAA26601@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" , "vortex" Subject: spindizzy winds down Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:59:23 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fM09b2.0.Pv4.8xPCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1062 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Folks! Thanks to all of those of you who helped me with my little mechanics problem. It has not been completely resolved in my mind but I'm sure that if I hit the books it will all come clear. This is not to say I will accept the orthodox explanation, but at least I want to UNDERSTAND it :-) I will soon be visiting you in my centrifugal space ship to show you all where you are wrong :-) You know, I am a high school dropout because no one in school ever had the patience for my incessant questions. If I had had teachers like you all, I might have gone on and gotten a Ph.D in physics. I'm not sure that would have made me a better person :-) but then at least I could have dressed up my wierd ideas in fancy equations so I could get them published in Physics Review A ;-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 18:19:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA32333; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:18:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:18:44 -0700 X-Sender: rmuha@mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199710010052.RAA26601@mail1.halcyon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:18:22 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: Re: spindizzy winds down Resent-Message-ID: <"IuoeT.0.5v7.oJQCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1063 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 8:59 PM -0400 9/30/97, Fred Epps wrote: >I will soon be visiting you in my centrifugal space ship to show you all >where you are wrong :-) I look forward to your visit! I'll make sure my 'scalar beacon' is on, so you won't lose your way... r From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 18:49:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA05049; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:26:21 -0700 (PDT) From: MFergerson@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970930132107_-1731960626@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DOG pause Resent-Message-ID: <"HI9S-1.0.mE1.YOJCq"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1041 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: P. Nielsen said: >As previously mentioned, I am bound not to disclose several (comparitively >straightforward) aspects of the design without a chance of some kind of >fruitful outcome, i.e. a realistic cooperative project. Sorry, but this is >not my decision. Then tempts us (me, anyway) with: >A few things I can say about the invention are it: >Contains no coils. >Is wholey capacitive. >Uses a conventional, low current HV power supply. >Does not fully load PS when current is drawn. >Involves translation of electrons from the vacuum. >Barium excluded, cost would be under $100. >I know some readers are suitably qualified in electronics, but whether or >not they accept my offer on the above basis is their own decision, and >obviously a matter of faith. As I can provide no further info here until >then, it may be more appropriate to respond off-list for now. >Hopefully, we'll be back later on this. >Peter Nielsen In response to this (and similar posts re: picking projects to invest time and resources in) I'd like to agree with Fred Epps (I think) and others who cite the lack of sufficient free hours to spend on wading thru fertilizer to find gems. The problem, as I see it, is that no one including me knows how to tell them apart at a glance. I strongly suspect there are going to be obvious similarities between the devices that DO prove workable (e.g. "workarounds" for inertial and thermal conservation laws, electrical/mechanical similarities, etc.), as witness the number of folks who, upon seeing a "new" OU idea, immediately say, "That reminds me of ____!" (fill in the blank with your favorite). I have no problem with keeping a proprietary idea private, but if we have no details, how are we to contribute sub-ideas on improvements? The trouble with passing data and comments thru private E-mail is that word "private". I don't trust "private" E-mail any more than P. Nielsen's mysterious inventor trusts readers (not all readers post) of this group to keep faith with other would-be inventors, and that is NOT intended as an accusation of paranoia, just a recognition of reality. In closing I'd like to request either enough details to think about in my (our) spare time, or fewer "mystery" posts. The Tantalus myth always scared hell out of me. (P.S. You'll notice I don't clutter the list with MY wild ideas, mainly because I can't get any of them to the build-the-prototype stage, either. If I had, all our E-mail boxes would be a LOT fuller.) Thanks (who did I P. O. this time?) Mark From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 18:53:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA13853; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:51:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:51:51 -0700 Message-ID: <34329C1C.6CC1@triode.net.au> Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 11:53:17 -0700 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Overunity devices that work, nobody pays any attention ? References: <970929151606_-1162325657@emout18.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ho8ug3.0.HO3.roQCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1064 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: HLafonte@aol.com wrote: > > Maxwell, > Take a look at this drawing and see if it gives you any ideas. > Thanks, > Butch > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > [Image] The constant-inductance design constraint says: "Design your rotor st the lumped inducance of both coils in series will ramain constant." That way total forces on the rotor will sum to zero. Can you find a way to do this? Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 19:22:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA23817; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 19:21:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 19:21:46 -0700 Message-ID: <3431B147.E71@voicenet.com> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 22:11:19 -0400 From: Eric Krieg Reply-To: eric@voicenet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY References: <199709301931.MAA17661@mail1.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MZPek1.0.op5.rERCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1065 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Fred, there have been many hundred people who have failed to make wheel based perpetual motion machines. I touch on some of their history at: http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/dennis4.html eric the skeptic Fred Epps wrote: > > Hi Jeff, > > Thanks for taking the time to answer my simple physics question. In my > opinion, it is still not answered. > > > THE WHEEL IS A FREE ENERGY DEVICE! > > > > > > The disc with ratchets and springs is also completely conservative - no > > free energy. Energy must first be put into the springs and masses when > > the disk is spun up. > > This is a misunderstanding of the experimental situation. when the disc is > spun up the masses are held near the center and they are not compressing > the springs. When the masses are released they move under their own power > to the outside edge and compress the springs, then to be locked into place > by a ratchet. > > It is nothing more than a complex fly wheel. In > > fact, it would be less efficient than a similar mass (same cg of mass > > from center) flywheel because of the frictional losses from the pawls > > and springs. > > Yes, it is not an efficient system in the usual sense. It is an > illustration of a principle. > > Moving the masses out will decrease rotational speed > > (omega), but the potential energy remains the same. > > Which is exactly my point! The rotational energy remains the same > regardless of the position of the masses. Agreed? > What you're forgetting is that the masses will move to the outside edge ON > THEIR OWN POWER. I am not "moving the masses", they move by this > mysterious thing that we call centrifugal force (if we want to irk physics > professors ;-). > > Consider the simplest possible situation, a disc with two radial grooves > and metal balls held near the center by some mechanism. > It is spun up to a constant velocity. The mechanism holding the balls is > released. The balls roll to the outside edge. > Now what are the energy dynamics of this situation? > 1) We are agreed that the rotational energy remains the same. The > velocity of the disc decreases but the moment of inertia increases so it > all evens out, right? > 2) Will you agree that the balls have moved under their own power? We did > not apply a radial force to them. For a mass to be moved from point A to > point B work (energy over time) must be done. Correct? > 3) Where did this energy come from? It did not come from the energy > applied to the disc to get it spinning. We have already established that > this energy is conserved. > > Where did this energy come from? I'm not asking for a label, like > centrifugal force, I'm asking for the source of the energy. > > Fred -- http://www.voicenet.com/~eric eric@voicenet.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 22:14:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA15758; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 22:13:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 22:13:49 -0700 X-Sender: warlock@mail.eskimo.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709301931.MAA17661@mail1.halcyon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:57:21 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jim Richardson Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY Resent-Message-ID: <"xlTpk.0.qr3.6mTCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1067 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Hi Jeff, > > Thanks for taking the time to answer my simple physics question. In my >opinion, it is still not answered. > >> THE WHEEL IS A FREE ENERGY DEVICE! >> >> >> The disc with ratchets and springs is also completely conservative - no >> free energy. Energy must first be put into the springs and masses when >> the disk is spun up. > >This is a misunderstanding of the experimental situation. when the disc is >spun up the masses are held near the center and they are not compressing >the springs. When the masses are released they move under their own power >to the outside edge and compress the springs, then to be locked into place >by a ratchet. > >It is nothing more than a complex fly wheel. In >> fact, it would be less efficient than a similar mass (same cg of mass >> from center) flywheel because of the frictional losses from the pawls >> and springs. > >Yes, it is not an efficient system in the usual sense. It is an >illustration of a principle. > > Moving the masses out will decrease rotational speed >> (omega), but the potential energy remains the same. > >Which is exactly my point! The rotational energy remains the same >regardless of the position of the masses. Agreed? >What you're forgetting is that the masses will move to the outside edge ON >THEIR OWN POWER. I am not "moving the masses", they move by this >mysterious thing that we call centrifugal force (if we want to irk physics >professors ;-). I think that if you tried this, both with and without the springs, you would find that the disk with the springs would slow down more than the disk without the springs i.e. work is done compressing the springs and that work is extracted from the rotational energy. Jim Richardson Anarchist, pagan and proud of it. http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 22:14:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA15739; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 22:13:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 22:13:45 -0700 X-Sender: warlock@mail.eskimo.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199709300558.WAA16763@mail1.halcyon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:45:31 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jim Richardson Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY Resent-Message-ID: <"WxONs.0.Pr3.3mTCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1066 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Hi Peter and all! > >> >> > I believe it IS possible to tap centrifugal force directly but >> > unfortunately in order to do so the disc needs to be accelerated and >> > deaccelerated causing much energy loss in the driver. The gyroscopic >> > >> Hello, >> The CEACU water turbine (a reaction turbine)is supposed to utilize >> centrifugal force to propel >> itself. The turbine basically consists of a rotating hollow drum into >> which water >> is pumped via a hollow shaft . Water jets are located around the >periphery >> of the drum. Reportedly, when the drum reaches a certain speed, the >> water is propelled from the jets by centrifugal force of sufficient >> enough velocity to cause enough reactice forcet o spin the drum without >> any outside power sorce. > >Does anyone have any opinion on why this couldn't work or where >> energy losses would occur that I have missed? > >i have seen a similar idea called the Matthias machine or something like >that, invented in Syria. Is this the same one? > >The problem with this idea, as I see it, is the same as with my old >centrifugal schemes, which is that the C-force is ALWAYS at right angles to >the acceleration vector of the rotating body. The jets will fly out >straight from the sides and will not impel the drum. On the other hand if >the jets are angled then the force that drives the turbine must arise from >pressure within it rather than C-force. > >The C-force, or any inertial force, must be converted (without use of >power) from a force directed away from the center of rotation to a force >along the rotational vector, in other words, at right angles. It is >possible to do this but it is damn hard, I have been trying to figure out a >way to do it for years. I believe this is how the Bessel wheel worked. I >believe this is how the spindizzy works. > How about setting up a vortex with a "hilsch" tube, and using the precession of the vortex mass of water? (does that make sense? ) a 90 shift is simple enough, ou? dunno. Jim Richardson Anarchist, pagan and proud of it. http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 23:15:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA02245; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:15:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:15:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199710010615.XAA16268@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: DOG pause Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:08:11 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XGK6Y1.0.oY.yfUCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1068 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Mark! > (P.S. You'll notice I don't clutter the list with MY wild ideas, mainly > because I can't get any of them to the build-the-prototype stage, either. If > I had, all our E-mail boxes would be a LOT fuller.) > Aw, come on, Mark, if "I" can do it, you can do it! It's fun, it's easy...:-) Fred From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 23:15:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA02317; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:15:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:15:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199710010615.XAA18334@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: "Free Energy" Subject: Re: THE SPINDIZZY Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:45:24 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"20UZr2.0.2a.BgUCq"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1069 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Eric, I'll take a look, but better watch out, it might give me some more ideas :-) Fred > > there have been many hundred people who have failed to make wheel > based perpetual motion machines. I touch on some of their history at: > http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/dennis4.html > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 30 23:33:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA00910 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:33:12 -0700 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:33:12 -0700 X-Envelope-From: fearl@airmail.net Tue Sep 30 23:33:10 1997 Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA00898 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:33:10 -0700 Received: from airmail.net from [204.178.75.205] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.203) with esmtp for id ; Tue, 30 Sep 97 20:31:22 -0500 (CDT) Sender: root@eskimo.com Message-ID: <3431A895.D03D0CBF@airmail.net> Old-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:34:13 -0500 From: "Frank C. Earl" Organization: Earl Consulting Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bismuth and Magnesium in EM Fields References: <3431BA01.5A15@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > The idea being you get the fishing weight back most of the time? That'd be the only reason I could see. > A 12 gage can pump an ounce of lead per shot. Whats a fishing weight > weigh? As much as 4 ounces for a sinker. It could be concieved as a problem since the lead is still lead and there's still a lot of leaching going on with the fishing weights.