From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 11:37:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16774; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:36:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:36:57 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <4724070d.35f42792@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:36:02 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Questions on Newman's motor Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"WbvTo1.0.064.9V2zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6110 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 07/09/1998 20:19:07, DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk wrote : << Does anyone have any helpful pointers to help me on the way? Any good simple methods of measuring the energy contained in the back emf? >> You can use the same setup that I have used for measuring the negative spikes at : http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NMac0702.htm Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 11:42:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18579; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:41:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:41:01 -0700 Message-ID: <00bc01bdda8e$be62d040$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Chicken eggs (not so off-topic ?) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:24:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"yMhQI3.0.4Y4.yY2zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6111 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >The chicken egg transmutation story comes from the research of Louis >Kervran, based on observations in a Britanny farm in the 1930's, Never heard of him, but again he was able to see a wide sample population in a similar environment. Hard for modern science to do this cheaply. >Kervran then went on to research lots of other instances of "biological >transmutation" and "low energy transmutation". Which makes him, I guess, the >honorary founding father of LENR and LENT. Do you have any other links or information? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 11:42:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18724; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:41:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:41:17 -0700 Message-ID: <00be01bdda8e$cf2595c0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Water Structure - Must Read Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:38:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"_1Jfu3.0.Pa4.CZ2zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6112 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >For an answer you will have to read Ed McCabs book on Oxygen Therapies. Could you please give me a general synopsis, if you have already read it why duplicate your efforts? Are ionizers bad or not or does it "just depend" like so many other things? Any other good general points you got from McCabs book? >>Also how does his device change the PH balance of my water? > >Not sure but I can test the difference. OK, I will order one of those devices and will provide water before and after the vortexing. Thanks. >>How young has structured water made you look? >> >> >I do it for the taste. I would eat dead fish (I do it now - tuna) that tastes awful if it improves my life and health. I think taste derived in organisms to cause us to eat the things that were for our survival, but with science at they level of today taste is no longer a necessary function of life - if I could just give up those damn dunkin donuts - grin. Taste is hurting more than it helps me now. I would be interested in studies done on people that have lost their sense of taste and/or smell and how healthy those people are compared to the general population - got any ideas for links? Too scared to lose my taste though (sigh) Damn doughnuts! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 12:24:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00647; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:20:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:20:55 -0700 Message-ID: <35F43260.4289@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:22:08 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net Subject: Re: Back to Basics/TVQ Lives References: <001701bdd9c4$e310fa40$947e02d0@jsburch.csw.com> <3.0.5.32.19980906083745.00b4a850@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980906124631.009123b0@rockisland.com> <35F42E87.4843@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hcEZz2.0.0A.N83zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6113 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bob Shannon et al! This refers to honesty, truth and integrity in the free energy and alt science arenas. In light of your endless useless and self-serving posts in the past, you should not rely on; > A careful review of the list rules is in order here. > I think it should be about reality, not fantasy. And the coup de resistance; > Really? I guess thats why I've freely given several designs, > and countless hours of freely given assitance to many who have > sucessfully duplicated these devices. Which are by extension so successful (not lab queens) that they are in use worldwide providing self-sustained free energy, therefore identifying you as one we should all pray to. Get with the program Shannon, the newbies and some of the older ones have no idea who or what you are or represent. You followed with a pure though veiled TVQ reference to your own tainted history; > But I'm sure you culd have great discussions with Jerry Decker > about that idea. I would prefer you not drag me into your TVQ inspired logic or 'humor' though since you persist and to date I've not responded to you, let's FINALLY do some dredging (only posted as a result of your own unceasing taunts) and shed some light on Shannons history. That history was with the KeelyNet BBS where Shannon (at that time unidentified with a real name other than that of TVQ) stated over and over that 'they', the TVQ cult, had all the secrets to scalar based free energy and gravity control devices. TVQ/Shannon claimed a book WOULD BE PUBLISHED as promoted on the KeelyNet BBS for over one year and which I later discovered was simply a ploy to drag more disciples into the TVQ cult. The idea was to tease people into responding, assess their technical abilities, then if they showed promise, to offer them a tidbit to draw them deeper into the cult. When I kept receiving requests for WHEN they would comply with their many promises of 'a book' that I finally realized was being used as a lure to drag in the BBS members, I asked TVQ (Bob) about WHEN 'the book' would be FINALLY available. He got all defensive (proof of claims), he waffled, argued and finally stated 'they' had changed their 'collective' minds. You see, he had asked me early on to refer what I considered talented people to their group and I stupidly did so in my naivete'. I usually trust people without requiring a lot of background or history. Each of these people disappeared from most of the KeelyNet BBS discussions although they had been rather prolific and highly informative prior to their absorption into the TVQ cult. When I or others would call or email these recent converts they would grudgingly respond if at all. When I recognized what was going on, that Shannon/TVQ were simply trolling for talent, who then strangely either disappeared or would no longer have open converse on the BBS, though they did lurk hoping something useful might yet be posted, something that they could 'absorb into the body' of TVQ, then I kicked him and his cronies off. The final comment from TVQ Bob was something like 'we will submerge into the sea of cyberspace until we arise again'...something to that effect....I was perturbed to see the infection on the Net, it was inevitable though the approach isn't quite so blatant as before. Diseases learn, mercy! It was too weird for me, he never was honest from day one and I didn't need friends and contacts that I knew and respected being absorbed by some strange outfit who never revealed anything, lied about their 'book' trying to get people into their cult by tempting them with a private tidbit release of a 'secret'. It was a neat trick and taught me a lesson about spooks, trust and psychotics and how intelligent people could be absorbed by a totally secretive, untrustworthy and dishonest 'group' to the point they no longer were 'in' the same world. To this date, I don't know EXACTLY what it was, only that I wanted to distance myself and KeelyNet from the TVQ infection and its leader and members. I had received 'spook' emails warning me that 'you don't know what you are dealing with' (with TVQ) and such. That played no part as crazies are everywhere and I have nothing to hide, but I didn't like the bold lies and teases about the book and offers of 'tidbits' to accelerate the brain drain into the cult, so did what I could to stop it in my sandbox. That is the background and gist of this 'back to basics' that all should be aware of. So, keep all this in mind when dealing with anything from this particular source (Shannon). There is a bit more but it doesn't fit the list guidelines since abnormal psychology isn't relevant to free energy. I have refrained from responding to Shannons trolls directed at me on this and the vortex list because as usual he serves only his own purposes, nebulous and suspect as they are. Speaking for myself (though I suspect many others ALSO subscribed here for free energy discussions...DUH.....), my goal is to help develop and freely share a working free energy device technology. Nothing more. The most likely approaches to free energy that I've seen remain; 1) high voltage as with Hyde, Testatika 2) phase conjugation 3) special heat pumps that might tap the vortex as in the recent claims of zpe@pdq.net 4) hydrosonics and 'molecule shearing' to produce heat as with Griggs, Potapov, Schauberger and Clem 5) acoustic phase conjugation as with Keely, Leedskalnin & others 6) mechanical percussion of water to release a pressurized 'cold, dry vapor' as in early Keely and other experiments These are some of the promising approaches and for my money, the CLEM engine offers one of the best chances. Originally based on observations that a 'hot asphalt sprayer' would continue to run for up to 30 minutes after power was shut off, it became the Clem engine. The recent threads about negative resistance and negative viscosity in combination with the claims of tapping energy from the vortex, possibly a hot to cold observation, indicates the 350 degree Clem engine has more than a good chance of working. I note that the overunity effect as claimed did not occur until two things happened, the velocity increased to around 2000 rpm and the temperature increased to REDUCE VISCOSITY. I don't know all the answers, nor does any rational person else they could prove it in hardware. The best bet in my opinion is to collect all known reports, then correlate for common patterns, then devise an experiment and test it. Such reports should be and are freely shared by many people as files, webpages and on discussion lists, which is as it should be. All the endless argument over minutiae or terms serves little purpose towards producing a working device. I've tried to refrain but often see certain people who have axes to grind by posting snide comments trolling for a reaction. The list would benefit greatly if we could just ALL stick to the subject here which is free energy and making it so. -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 12:31:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03690; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:29:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:29:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199809071930.QAA08996@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:28:33 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Questions on Newman's motor Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <178abc0c.35f42560@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"hPmBH.0.Vv.9G3zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6114 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > One of the most important think is to tap the energy from the coil during the > grow of the magnetic energy in the coil (when the flux in the coil is > increased by the rotating magnet). During this growing phase of the magnetic > energy in the coil due to the increase of the flux, some additional and > "external" energy can be tapped like a syphon (this is an open system).... > Well, this is something like repelling and immediately atracting the magnet in short pulses. Seems to me the energy is tapped from the inertial flux rising due to magnet inertial rotation. > > The main effect occur ONLY with long wire coil, if the resistance of the coil > is high, this change the time constant of the circuit. Higher the resistance, > lower will be the turn speed of the Newman's machine. In my case the time > constant is 60msx4=240ms per turn. 60ms is equal to 5*Tau=5*L/R ( you can > check this on my scope pictures) > Just as curiosity, did you experiment with a smaller coil ? > > The MostFet transistors and also IGBTs have an internal diode and also a small > parasitic capacitance which can kill the negative current. The use of HV > vacuum triode will by better for avoiding this or some special vacuum spark > gap swichers. Xenon lamps, perhaps ? > > < ?>> > > The speed of the machine is regulated with the inertial wheel (about 1kg) > mounted on the main shaft, so the speed fluctuation is very weak. > It would be interesting mounting a speed sensor on the shaft and monitoring its output with an osciloscope. I bet you will get a little speed drop during the negative spikes. > ---------------------------- This commutator thing remembers me of the Rory Johnson motor, with their wide gaps between commutator's bars ... Wouldn't be something similar ? --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 12:36:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06782; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:34:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:34:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980907015441.00b2ae50@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 01:54:41 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <0fce01bdda21$22a73000$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"YN3Ld.0.sf1.4L3zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6117 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:24 AM 9/7/98 -0400, Bill Wallace wrote: >So this only happens with electrons why not with positrons or protons? Why >can't they constantly recycle? Question: Are there in reality such things as positrons and protons, or were they really mathematically conceptualized to provide balance to neutrons, which were themselves conceptualized account for weight. Weight is a concept that has been totally debased by the concept of mass, although to be truthful, what mass replaced, gravitas, wasn't much clearer. What gives something weight has never been able to be separated from the thing that weighs, and thus we accept gravity as a force that gives things weight because gravity is a part of the thing itself. (Doesn't make sense does it - it shouldn't for it is circular reasoning) but in essence it describes the state of thinking. Circular reasoning: Mass causes gravity - gravity causes mass. Since we developed the concept of a neutron, we have to have because of our concept of polarity, a proton. The classical concept of the atom, the concept that created a successful chemistry based on the twin concepts of valence theory seated in atomic structure and chemical bonding based on shared electrons, has a nucleus containing this hypothetical neutrons to account for weight and hypothetical protons to balance the charge of the electrons orbiting the nucleus and able to account for weight (notice this is all hypothetical as is the values mentioned below). The electrons orbiting the nucleus in turn were (and in many cases still are) placed in shells to account for the periodicity of their elements, basically their weight arranged to the extent possible by their electrical characteristics. This classical concept of the atom has devolved, strangely enough as a result of the measurment of light as a wave produced by incessant viewing of Young's two slit experiment, into a fuzzy picture of the atom as a nucleus of neutrons and protons made up of forty or fifty other particles surrounded by a cloud of electrons. Weight is the result of the relative force it takes to stop atoms from moving in a field of attraction. This is what the surface of the Earth does. It stops atoms from moving in a field of attraction. Objects fall at a uniform rate regardless of the nature of the atom that makes them up because there is a force that is acting on individual units in the nucleus of each atom. Thus, an atom with a hundred units in the nucleus will fall at the same rate as an atom with fiftyunits in the nucleous because waht is making them fall is acting on the individual units that make up the nucleus and not on the nucleus. When the two atoms fall, one with a hundred units, and one with fifty units, weight is not a factor in the rate that they fall. It is only when an attempt is made to stop the acceleration that results from atoms falling in a field of force that weight is created in atoms. The proton was conceptualized because of our belief in polarity and the inane idea that opposites attract (don't act on that when choosing a mate - it will end in divorce and unhappiness, more true is birds of a feather flock together - and the sexes are not opposites either). We don't need the proton in the nucleus of the atom, either. Polarity is not necessary because there is no reason to apply the concept that opposites attract, a concept made up to describe the physical behavior of magnetic material, to an atom that can be constructed our of an electron with its two opposing properties of at rest motion and affinity propensity. The opposing forces implied by the concept of polarity are, in effect, the electron's opposing forces of attraction and motion. All we need is a basic unit composed of electrons which has, once it has overcome its last electron's at rest motion, an excess affinity propensity which can attract a cloud of orbiting electrons. This is the cloud that our detectors detect when we knock basic units off the surface of matter as short lived beta particles. These particles register as a charge in our detectors until they obtain an orbital cloud which balance their affinity propensities at which point they disappear from the detectors designed to detect only charges. Neutrino's are another man made concept, another need to create a concept because of theory, starting from false premises (waves and particles - wavicles) Armed with this concept of protons and neutrons orbiting the nucleus of an atom, the theoretical ("hard scientists") dipped deep into the taxpayers pocket and spent billions on particle accelerators, bombarding matter with high energy charges and trying to measure the results of these bombardments. At 01:24 AM 9/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >So this only happens with electrons why not with positrons or protons? Why >can't they constantly recycle? > > > >>The question of a magnet, I think, can be easily understood when one >>realizes that one can create a magnet by rubbing a needle with a silk >>scarf. Electrons are stripped off the scarf (creating static cling) and >>transferred to the needle. The needle is then overcharged, with electrons >>now being pushed in one end and out the other and constantly recycling. >> >> >>At 10:34 AM 9/6/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>> >>>>> So in the case you describe, the magnet is simply biasing the depth of >>>>> the lowest energy state available for the ball. The magnet provides a >>>>> lower energy state than the slight increase in gravitational >attraction >>>>> at the spot below the suspended ball. >>>>> >> >>>>> I agree with the basic explanation, but there are still some things >that >>>are >>>>> not clear (to me). When the magnet lifts the ball energy is being >>>expended to >>>>> lift the ball. When the ball is suspended there is more energy in the >>>ball >>>>> than there was before ( there is a B and H field in the ball where >>>previously >>>>> there was none--both represent energy), and the B field everywhere in >>>free >>>>> space is also higher than it was before (of that I am not sure) also >>>>> representing additional energy. >>>> >>>>Actually, the ball 'lost' energy as it climed to a lower energy state. >>>>That energy lost moved the mass of the ball as I understand it. >>>> >>>>> The question is --- WHERE did all this energy >>>>> come from?? Clearly the B field inside the magnet must be higher than >>>it was >>>>> before, since the B lines must be continuous. The remaining quantity >is >>>the H >>>>> field inside the magnet. Is its changes balancing all the energy >>>appearing >>>>> elsewhere? >>>>> Ken >>>Keasy@aol.com >>>> >>>>The energy contained in the disordered spins moves the mass as they move >>>>into ordered (magnetized) orientations. You 'borrowed' energy from the >>>>disorderd spins to lift the ball, but when you later pull that ball from >>>>the magnetic field, we put that same energy back into the ball. >>>> >>>>Your right in that this is very similar to the SMOT concept. In the >>>>SMOT there was the question of the balls true energy state after it >>>>rolled (some finite distance) away from the magnet array. >>>> >>>>It might look like your ball has higher potential energy because its >>>>higher above the ground, but there is still the 'unstick' energy to >>>>account for. This unstick energy needs to be compared to the work done >>>>in lifting the ball to the end of its teather. >>>> >>> >>>I have been fascinated with magnetic fields since I was 12. I do not >>>pretend to understand their inter workings and during college my >professors >>>did not have a complete understanding either. I consider the notion that >>>levitating the ball DOES NOT use energy as presumptuous. Given WE DO NOT >>>fully understand magnetic fields. The question of "where does the energy >>>come from?", to me, is a valid one. If you take it one step further. You >>>should ask yourself. Where does the energy that powers a nucleus come >from? >>>In my minds eye, I imagine the magnetic field as a link to weak nuclear >>>force. And that power I believe come from taping into the strong nuclear >>>force. It is the strong nuclear force we should be looking at. For a >>>stable atom uses energy and has no know limitation on life span. I >believe >>>that is true anyway. So how does it replenish itself? From where does it >>>pull that seemingly endless energy? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 12:36:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06667; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:34:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:34:14 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980907004107.00b255e0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 00:41:07 -0700 To: aef1@xmatrix.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Einstein in Free Fall Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-U_6r1.0._d1.rK3zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6115 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: SCIENCE FRONTIERS NO. 119, SEP-OCT, 1998 SCIENCE FRONTIERS is a bimonthly collection of digests of scientific anomalies in the current literature. Published by the Sourcebook Project. P.O. Box 107, Clen Arm, MD 21057. Annual subscription: 57.00. ISSN 1094-8325 http: //www. knowledge. cc. uk/frontiers/ EINSTEIN IN FREE PALL We now describe two abstruse phenomena, one of which is well-recognized, the other which is suggested by quantum mechanics, but is yet unobserved. Both involve only tiny physical effects. Even so, we should remember that a linchpin of Special Relativity is the tiny advance of Mercury's perihelion. It was Mersury's miniscule orbital anomaly that helped overthrow Newtonian celestial mechanics. Now, quantum mechanics may, in turn, undermine Relativity. The gist of this introduction is that we have here tiny, hard-to-visualize phenomena that are so scientifically important that it is worthwhile trying to understand them. In the first abstruse phenomenon, quantum mechanical effects demonstrate that the laws of classical electromagnetism are flawed. According to the classical view, an electron cruising by an ideal solenoid (a tube with an internal magnetic field but none outside) should be unaffected; that is, the electron should not "feel" the confined magnetic field. But, in the quantum mechanical view, the "presence" of the electron is smeared out so that it penetrates the solenoid, and the electron is affected by the confined field. This has been demonstrated. A Los Alamos scientist, D. Ahluwalia, ventures that an analogous situation prevails with gravity. He notes that General Relativity predicts that a particle (or person) in free fall cannot distinguish this condition (weightlessness) from the situation in a hollow shell of matter, where the gravitational field is cancelled out. A person would feel weightless in both situations. But the strange part arises when one looks at the two situations from the perspective of quantum mechanics; that is, one puts gravity into Shroedinger's equation. Ahluwalia asserts that the particle's (or person's) gravitational presence is smeared out, just like that of the electron outside the solenoid. In consequence, masses can "feel" their gravitational potential and will behave differently in free fall than when inside a hollow sphere, contrary to what Finstein maintained in his General Relativity . (Seife, Charles; "Einstein in Free Fall," New Scientist, p. 11, June 13, 1998.) Comment. Like the princess who felt the pea beneath her pile of matresses, this tiny quantum mechanical effect, if experimentally verified, could undercut Relativity, which is a foundation stone of our modern philosophical outlook. Bizarre as many predictions of quantum mechanics are, they are usually verified experimentally. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 12:38:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06700; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:34:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:34:17 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980907004118.00b23e80@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 00:41:18 -0700 To: aef1@xmatrix.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Hs the Siberianlandbridge hypotheses finally collapsed? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"uuw9s.0.Ze1.uK3zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6116 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: SCIENCE FRONTIERS NO. 119, SEP-OCT, 1998 SCIENCE FRONTIERS is a bimonthly collection of digests of scientific anomalies in the current literature. Published by the Sourcebook Project. P.O. Box 107, Clen Arm, MD 21057. Annual subscription: 57.00. ISSN 1094-8325 http: //www. knowledge. cc. uk/frontiers/ THE END OP THE OLD-MODEL UNIVERSE That cosmology is in flux is apparent in the following sentence found in Nature: The standard ideas of the 1980s about the shape and history of the Universe have now been abandoned--and cosmologists are now taking seriously the possibility that the Universe is pervaded by some sort of vacuum energy, whose origin is not at all understood. Does this mean that the Big Bang, the mainstay of the astronomy we were taught in school, is now being cast aside? After all, the Big Bang does model fairly well three important observations: (1) The apparent expansion of the universe: (2) The 30K microwave background; and (3) The abundances of the light nuclei. But try as they may, cosmologists have not been able to-coax the Big Bang model to explain the large-scale lumpiness and structure of the galaxies and galaxy clusters. One problem with the Big Bang is that it has too many free parameters---too much theorotical slack. Many cosmologists are now looking for a better model. This better model, to use the words of P.Goles, should be more "exciting" and "stranger," something "perhaps not even based on General Relativity." (Goles, Peter; "The End of the Old Model Universe," Nature, 393:741, 1998.) Questions. Isn't cosmology already already"strange" enough? Since when theories have to be "exciting"? If a vacuum is defined as "a volume devoid ~fhemnasE6.~ mh~~ Can it contain energy From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 13:32:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA31882; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:30:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:30:52 -0700 Message-ID: <35F46AB6.73EA@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:22:31 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: billb@keelynet.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics/TVQ Lives References: <001701bdd9c4$e310fa40$947e02d0@jsburch.csw.com> <3.0.5.32.19980906083745.00b4a850@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980906124631.009123b0@rockisland.com> <35F42E87.4843@tiac.net> <35F43260.4289@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fNPFb.0.wn7.x94zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6118 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jerry W. Decker wrote: > > Bob Shannon et al! > > This refers to honesty, truth and integrity in the free energy and alt > science arenas. > > In light of your endless useless and self-serving posts in the past, you > should not rely on; > > A careful review of the list rules is in order here. > > I think it should be about reality, not fantasy. > > And the coup de resistance; > > Really? I guess thats why I've freely given several designs, > > and countless hours of freely given assitance to many who have > > sucessfully duplicated these devices. > > Which are by extension so successful (not lab queens) that they are in > use worldwide providing self-sustained free energy, therefore > identifying you as one we should all pray to. No, not at all, thats why I never made unsupported claims like so many others have done. > That history was with the KeelyNet BBS where Shannon (at that time > unidentified with a real name other than that of TVQ) stated over and > over that 'they', the TVQ cult, had all the secrets to scalar based free > energy and gravity control devices. > > TVQ/Shannon claimed a book WOULD BE PUBLISHED as promoted on the > KeelyNet BBS for over one year and which I later discovered was simply a > ploy to drag more disciples into the TVQ cult. Really, how did you discover this Jerry? Any evidence for this claim? You should remember that other people envolved in Keelynets past history are still subscribers to freenrg-l today. There are witnesses you know. > The idea was to tease people into responding, assess their technical > abilities, then if they showed promise, to offer them a tidbit to draw > them deeper into the cult. More stories? > When I kept receiving requests for WHEN they would comply with their > many promises of 'a book' that I finally realized was being used as a > lure to drag in the BBS members, I asked TVQ (Bob) about WHEN 'the book' > would be FINALLY available. Jerry, I'd rather not have to publish the transcripts of the email exchange where you began to demand full and complete disclosure on your terms... Remember the phrase "...who are you to decide who should..."? Stop trying to deceive people here Jerry. > He got all defensive (proof of claims), he waffled, argued and finally > stated 'they' had changed their 'collective' minds. True. We did not agree with Jerry's total disrespect for intellectual property. Jerry lost some long time friends over this. > Each of these people disappeared from most of the KeelyNet BBS > discussions although they had been rather prolific and highly > informative prior to their absorption into the TVQ cult. When I or > others would call or email these recent converts they would grudgingly > respond if at all. Some still wont sit still to hear your name today Jerry. Did I do this? No, this is the product of your actions. So now you want to hand the dirty laundry up for everyone to see eh? Let it go. > When I recognized what was going on, that Shannon/TVQ were simply > trolling for talent, who then strangely either disappeared or would no > longer have open converse on the BBS, though they did lurk hoping > something useful might yet be posted, something that they could 'absorb > into the body' of TVQ, then I kicked him and his cronies off. This is a deliberate and total lie! > It was too weird for me, he never was honest from day one and I didn't > need friends and contacts that I knew and respected being absorbed by > some strange outfit who never revealed anything, lied about their 'book' > trying to get people into their cult by tempting them with a private > tidbit release of a 'secret'. "Never revealed anything" is inaccurate. The portions of the book that were my sole intellectual property have been released. The other contributors refused to allow their work to be included based on your actions Jerry. The same actions that cost you your friends. > To this date, I don't know EXACTLY what it was, only that I wanted to > distance myself and KeelyNet from the TVQ infection and its leader and > members. You know, just the other day I got yet another email from someone who wanted to know what your problem is with me. I guess you have let them know in your own words. How many years ago what that now Jerry? Right before you promoted that whole MRA scam, right? > I had received 'spook' emails warning me that 'you don't know what you > are dealing with' (with TVQ) and such. That played no part as crazies > are everywhere and I have nothing to hide, but I didn't like the bold > lies and teases about the book and offers of 'tidbits' to accelerate the > brain drain into the cult, so did what I could to stop it in my sandbox. Spook emails? About me? Cool, I'd like to see a copy of one of those! > That is the background and gist of this 'back to basics' that all should > be aware of. Yeah, thats right, forget the facts, pay attemtion to the soap opra. > So, keep all this in mind when dealing with anything from this > particular source (Shannon). There is a bit more but it doesn't fit the > list guidelines since abnormal psychology isn't relevant to free energy. Ahh, I see, slander. Cool. > I have refrained from responding to Shannons trolls directed at me on > this and the vortex list because as usual he serves only his own > purposes, nebulous and suspect as they are. I've probably got one of thise 'Proud Member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" bumperstickers too. Heck, I'm the chain smoking cancer-man from X-Files! This is wild! Test Ohm's law and be burnt at the stake by a Texan? I'm trying to maintain a sense of humor here, but I have to call for moderation from BillB on this, before it turns nasty. I'm sure I'm probably just as guilty here, but this is not what freenrg-l is for. If I'm wrong about that, and critical review is improper here, I'll be glad to unsubscribe. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 14:10:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11280; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:09:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:09:18 -0700 Message-ID: <35F44BBE.1914@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:10:22 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics/TVQ Lives References: <001701bdd9c4$e310fa40$947e02d0@jsburch.csw.com> <3.0.5.32.19980906083745.00b4a850@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980906124631.009123b0@rockisland.com> <35F42E87.4843@tiac.net> <35F43260.4289@keelynet.com> <35F46AB6.73EA@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PXWsg1.0.8m2.zj4zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6119 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Shannon et al! You brought it on yourself and no question the nerve is sensitive. First to respond 'methinks the lady doth protest too much': > ...There are witnesses you know. > ...Remember the phrase "...who are you to decide who should..."? > ...Stop trying to deceive people here Jerry. > ...Jerry lost some long time friends over this. > ...I'm sure I'm probably just as guilty here, but this is not > ...what freenrg-l is for. > ...Let it go. > ...I'll be glad to unsubscribe. Precisely, 'submerge back under the waters of cyberspace' to fester and rise again hoping your past does not follow, nothing could be better for the alt tech arenas. No more emails about this Bill. Sorry but he's been goading this for a long time on your lists and nothing was ever said as to moderation and I've refrained from responding to the taunts. He KNOWS what happened, what was wrong and still tries to distance himself from his own actions. No more, this is about freenrg, not a pissing contest between those who are stable and backup their committment with actions and the lurkers who hide behind others, etc. ad nauseum. He shall rant forever and I'll not respond again, relying on time, truth and ACTIONS to clean up the infection. -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 14:26:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16290; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:25:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:25:13 -0700 Message-ID: <35F4776F.252C@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 17:16:47 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jdecker@keelynet.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics/TVQ Lives References: <001701bdd9c4$e310fa40$947e02d0@jsburch.csw.com> <3.0.5.32.19980906083745.00b4a850@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980906124631.009123b0@rockisland.com> <35F42E87.4843@tiac.net> <35F43260.4289@keelynet.com> <35F46AB6.73EA@tiac.net> <35F44BBE.1914@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JD48C2.0.D-3.uy4zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6120 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jerry W. Decker wrote: > > Shannon et al! > > You brought it on yourself and no question the nerve is sensitive. > > First to respond 'methinks the lady doth protest too much': > > ...There are witnesses you know. > > ...Remember the phrase "...who are you to decide who should..."? > > ...Stop trying to deceive people here Jerry. > > ...Jerry lost some long time friends over this. > > ...I'm sure I'm probably just as guilty here, but this is not > > ...what freenrg-l is for. > > ...Let it go. > > ...I'll be glad to unsubscribe. > > Precisely, 'submerge back under the waters of cyberspace' to fester and > rise again hoping your past does not follow, nothing could be better for > the alt tech arenas. Jerry, you have lied and slandered me. If your personal credability means anything, you will retract the lies. > No more emails about this Bill. Hit and run? That's honorable Jerry. Don't you think you should stand up for your words and actions here? > Sorry but he's been goading this for a long time on your lists and > nothing was ever said as to moderation and I've refrained from > responding to the taunts. He KNOWS what happened, what was wrong and > still tries to distance himself from his own actions. Lots of people KNOW what happened, and few care but you. Shall we collect witnesses Jerry? I've called for moderation because of your unsupported lies, and I stand by my call for moderation on your slander. > No more, this is about freenrg, not a pissing contest between those who > are stable and backup their committment with actions and the lurkers who > hide behind others, etc. ad nauseum. He shall rant forever and I'll not > respond again, relying on time, truth and ACTIONS to clean up the > infection. Jerry, You opened this can of worms. If your honorable, you will retract the deliberate falsehood you have been spreading. Simply saying I'll post no more does nothing to address what you have already done here. I am far from satisfied with that. Either back up your false accusations, or retract them. Your lies are one source of 'infection'. Stop the spread! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 14:40:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21000; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:39:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:39:34 -0700 Message-ID: <01b101bddaa7$b6265140$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: , Cc: Subject: Re: Back to Basics/TVQ Lives Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:37:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"i08Vo3.0.185.MA5zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6121 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >This refers to honesty, truth and integrity in the free energy and alt >science arenas. Hooray! Secrecy only keeps the masses at bay, to hell with it! I want humanity as a whole to benefit, not just a few. Govt, private inventors, investors or otherwise, sorry but your days are numbered. The internet will break you all. I support that 100%! >I had received 'spook' emails warning me that 'you don't know what you >are dealing with' (with TVQ) and such. Wrong Jerry, THEY are the ones who do not realize what THEY are dealing with, a mass communications system unable to be controlled, detained, stopped, filed, numbered, or stamped (ie the prisoner) A NEW paradigm in free speech and information exchange and there is no VALVE to stop the floodgates now! >That is the background and gist of this 'back to basics' that all should >be aware of. Thank you, and you have my respect Jerry, secrecy is one of our worst enemies, it does not allow peer review, constructive criticism, or the exchange of info to help people out, NO MORE SECRETS! >Speaking for myself (though I suspect many others ALSO subscribed here >for free energy discussions...DUH.....), my goal is to help develop and >freely share a working free energy device technology. Nothing more. And we now have the medium to do it and no one can stop it, no matter what! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 15:19:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA31968; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 15:18:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 15:18:08 -0700 Message-ID: <35F483DC.1054@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 18:09:48 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Jerry's own words... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Gzcol1.0.Kp7.Vk5zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6122 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The following is taken directly from Keelynet: "If you make a claim, be prepared to let others independently test it or shut up until you are confident or secure enough to be able to do so, forget all the excuses from paranoia or unforeseen equipment problems." Clearly intended for claims about a device, but should we hold claims about people to a lower standard? Lets see, Jerry has claimed: "Get with the program Shannon, the newbies and some of the older ones have no idea who or what you are or represent." Only to later add: "To this date, I don't know EXACTLY what it was, only that I wanted to distance myself and KeelyNet from the TVQ infection and its leader and members." So the 'newbies' and others have no idea, nor do you "know EXACTLY", but it must be something really bad right? Thats what your claiming. Can you support that claim, or did you properly descibe this claim as theory alone? Are you meeting your own standards here Jerry? Another DEcker claim: "That history was with the KeelyNet BBS where Shannon (at that time unidentified with a real name other than that of TVQ) stated over and over that 'they', the TVQ cult, had all the secrets to scalar based free energy and gravity control devices." The claim was working technology. The description of 'all the secrets' is Jerry's alone. "TVQ/Shannon claimed a book WOULD BE PUBLISHED as promoted on the KeelyNet BBS for over one year and which I later discovered was simply a ploy to drag more disciples into the TVQ cult." Ah, so you claim that you discovered that there was a ploy to drag people into a cult. Hmm, thats an acusation of criminal activity. Ok Jerry, a weighty claim. Again, will your actions meet your own standards? Can you support this accusation? Should I call my lawyer? Another Decker claim: "When I kept receiving requests for WHEN they would comply with their many promises of 'a book' that I finally realized was being used as a lure to drag in the BBS members, I asked TVQ (Bob) about WHEN 'the book' would be FINALLY available. He got all defensive (proof of claims), he waffled, argued and finally stated 'they' had changed their 'collective' minds." So Jerry claims that the collective changed its mind. This IS TRUE. Jerry's claim neglects to mention his role in that unfortunate choice. "Each of these people disappeared from most of the KeelyNet BBS discussions although they had been rather prolific and highly informative prior to their absorption into the TVQ cult. When I or others would call or email these recent converts they would grudgingly respond if at all." Again, Jerry denies any responsiblity of his role in loosing friends and associates, and makes claims of a 'cult'. Ask them why Jerry. Mark Mansfield has already made his opinion clear in the past. Don't blame their reactions to your actions on me. "When I recognized what was going on, that Shannon/TVQ were simply trolling for talent, who then strangely either disappeared or would no longer have open converse on the BBS, though they did lurk hoping something useful might yet be posted, something that they could 'absorb into the body' of TVQ, then I kicked him and his cronies off." You claim to have kicked people off Keelynet? They left Jerry. Hmm, maybe you slammed the door after they were gone? "It was too weird for me, he never was honest from day one and I didn't need friends and contacts that I knew and respected being absorbed by some strange outfit who never revealed anything..." Clearly false. Check the archives Jerry. "...lied about their 'book'..." A group did inquire what level of interest would there be for the book. The group did write the majority of that book. The plans for the publication were abandoned based on Jerry's actions, demands for disclosure on his terms. Plans change. Writing a good book takes a lot of work. To have someone totally disrespect the idea that a person in this country owns an idea they create was enough for several people to want nothing to do with Jerry Decker and his form of intellectual property socialisim. Jerry goes on: "It was a neat trick and taught me a lesson about spooks, trust and psychotics and how intelligent people could be absorbed by a totally secretive, untrustworthy and dishonest 'group' to the point they no longer were 'in' the same world." Wow, it really must have been some cool bait eh? Those people told you they were busy building working technology. They were testing the construction projects from the first chapters of the draft copy of the book. But go ahead, set their own words to you aside, and infer that something secretive was going on, start another myth. Again, you are not meeting your own standards by qualifying speculation and theory. Those people left your company because they did not agree with your idea that the people who develop an idea have the right to control their work. Its just that simple. You have gone so far as to suggest that groups with working technology should be infiltrated and their work stolen for the greater good of free energy as a whole. The idea that someone who has not done the work has any right to the work of others turned those people away from you. Personally, I think your entitled to think that way, but your not intitled to the work. "He KNOWS what happened, what was wrong and still tries to distance himself from his own actions." Not true Jerry. Lets get this all out in the open. You have made claims and accusations. Meet your own standards and support those claims or retract them publicaly, where you made them. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 15:42:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08394; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 15:37:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 15:37:57 -0700 Message-ID: <021901bddaaf$d8c0fc20$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Back to Basics/TVQ Lives Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:28:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"pBq_c2.0.432.416zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6123 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >No, not at all, thats why I never made unsupported claims like so many >others have done. What new claims have you made? I do not know your history, what new things have you thrown out that is helping people today? >Jerry, I'd rather not have to publish the transcripts of the email >exchange >where you began to demand full and complete disclosure on your terms... To you and Jerry it makes no difference any more, no one is going to be able to stop disclosure at this point on much of anything anymore - too large of a system to control now. Look how fast the monica story was spread. The smart inventor who tried to horde, or the governent for military secrets, no matter the social implications they no longer have the ability to maintain a level of progress they feel is best. >"Never revealed anything" is inaccurate. The portions of the book that >were my sole intellectual property have been released. The other >contributors >refused to allow their work to be included based on your actions Jerry. Can they release it now? If not someone else will. >I've probably got one of thise 'Proud Member of the Vast Right Wing >Conspiracy" bumperstickers too. Heck, I'm the chain smoking cancer-man >from X-Files! HAHA, you make funny joke! No conspiracy, just some people with good ideas that have not shared, but it does not matter now, we are all dealing with a beast beyond anyones control, the flow of memes cannot be shut off. >I'm trying to maintain a sense of humor here, but I have to call for >moderation from BillB on this, before it turns nasty. I'm sure I'm >probably just as guilty here, but this is not what freenrg-l is for. He got it off his chest, others are here to learn, I have, now we can continue forward. >If I'm wrong about that, and critical review is improper here, I'll be >glad to unsubscribe. Running away is no good, that was a problem with the life on europa debacle, the respectable scientists bowed out not wanting to be associated with the ones they considered quacks thus giving them the podium and causing a bigger problem, do not be like them please. When people can no longer take attacks or criticism and fly away we all lose - no matter their motive. Criticism is good, secrecy is bad. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 16:15:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15890; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:07:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:07:41 -0700 Message-ID: <35F48F6E.E18@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 18:59:10 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics/TVQ Lives References: <021901bddaaf$d8c0fc20$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PdZmH3.0.6u3.yS6zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6124 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Wallace wrote: > > >No, not at all, thats why I never made unsupported claims like so many > >others have done. > > What new claims have you made? I do not know your history, what new things > have you thrown out that is helping people today? There are plans on Bill Beaty's Weird Science web page that detail the construction of a working Scalar (non Hertzian wave) detector, and test pulse generator. There is also a construction article on a device called an Electrostatic Gradiometer. The detectors and gradiometers are used in alternative science investigations, and even investigations of 'paranormal' phenomena where they give consistant data according to their users. In the scalar detector article, a series of modifications are discussed where the device will produce a very small, but constant power output, enough to drive a very modest load, with no power input. In addition, I have discussed the technical details of this and related technologies openly on freenrg-l for several years now, and also responded to countless private posts and questions. I've made materials for my deigns available to interested builders and helped get their devices up and running. Several sucessfuly builders are on this list now. (Ahem, guys?) > >Jerry, I'd rather not have to publish the transcripts of the email > >exchange > >where you began to demand full and complete disclosure on your terms... > > To you and Jerry it makes no difference any more, no one is going to be able > to stop disclosure at this point on much of anything anymore - too large of > a system to control now. Look how fast the monica story was spread. The > smart inventor who tried to horde, or the governent for military secrets, no > matter the social implications they no longer have the ability to maintain a > level of progress they feel is best. > > >"Never revealed anything" is inaccurate. The portions of the book that > >were my sole intellectual property have been released. The other > >contributors > >refused to allow their work to be included based on your actions Jerry. > > Can they release it now? If not someone else will. I can and will freely discuss those portions of the work that are clearly my work, or the released work of others. I have been doing this for some time now, despite claims to the contrary. A great deal of the work in the draft is the rughtful property of others that have been deeply offended, and indirectly attacked as being members or victims of some form of cult. They do not conceed to the release of the work, and I must respect their choice although I have at times tried to 'patch up' the whole soap-opera. > >I've probably got one of thise 'Proud Member of the Vast Right Wing > >Conspiracy" bumperstickers too. Heck, I'm the chain smoking cancer-man > >from X-Files! > > HAHA, you make funny joke! No conspiracy, just some people with good ideas > that have not shared, but it does not matter now, we are all dealing with a > beast beyond anyones control, the flow of memes cannot be shut off. Thanks for seeing the humor in my post, I worried that it might not be P.C. enough! Very true indeed. I'm right here, talking about this stuff and helping others. I'd rather do the work than talk about what might be. My bumper sticker should actually read 'Proud Member of the Dirty Fingernails Crowd'. I'm into actually building and testing stuff like on Bill's web site. > >If I'm wrong about that, and critical review is improper here, I'll be > >glad to unsubscribe. > > Running away is no good, that was a problem with the life on europa > debacle, the respectable scientists bowed out not wanting to be associated > with the ones they considered quacks thus giving them the podium and causing > a bigger problem, do not be like them please. When people can no longer > take attacks or criticism and fly away we all lose - no matter their motive. > Criticism is good, secrecy is bad. Well, I've been given the idea that criticism is often less then welcome. It seems that to many, if you criticise ideas you think are unworkable then you must be guilty of suppression. Once that charge is made, many overlook the facts and beleive the claim. Many want to punish anyone who is not a 'true beleiver'. Anyone who freely gives away a patentable invention such as I have must have an unsual way of suppressing technology! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 17:10:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA30801; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:09:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:09:29 -0700 Message-ID: <35F47503.75758CFD@harti.com> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 02:06:28 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hb9abx@datacomm.ch, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravitat.Converter - Error in calculation References: <35F2F444.A17C9F34@datacomm.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m2rgF3.0.wW7.uM7zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6125 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Felix Meyer wrote: > Refering to http://www.overunity.com/gb > where you find drawings and calculations stating that > the converter is a SELFRUNNER ... > > I am sorry to indicate the result of my analysis > which shows that the mentioned calculation is uncorrect. > It is based on the assumption that 155 Kg weight produces > an energy of 124 mKg. > The error is, that the pressure of 155 Kg is inside of the > cylinder and does not contribute to the calculated energy. > This pressure does not actuate over the indicated height. > > The 155 Kg pressure on the cylinder body is reduced by the > upward pression of the Kompensator (109 Kg) > therefore 155 Kg - 109 Kg = 46 Kg are effective (the original > weight of the water). > (Calculation without decimals...) > > The so called "source energy" is produced only through > the weight which is given as 46.24 Kg. > > Distribution of the forces is a little more complex > through the floating "integral gear". > > F.Meyer > Hi Felix and all, I am not sure, if this is really the case ! Try to think of a kompensator swimmer, which has a weight of 109 Kg fitted to its lower part (integral gear pulling) then the whole upper pulley will SEE a force of 155 Kg ( 109 Kg of integralgear pulling plus ~ 46 Kg water, so we really have a system going down with ~ 155 Kg x 0.8 meters= 124 mKg and this is the source energy... How could otherwise it be true, that the kompensator swimmer goes down inside the water, when it needs 0.4 Meters x 109 Kg= 43.6 mKg energy to be pulled down completely and the source as you say has only got 46 Kg water x 0.8 Meters= 36.8 mKg as the source energy ??? And you can see it going down ! Please explain. Thanks ! Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 17:48:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11009; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:45:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:45:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980907035301.013e4220@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 03:53:01 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Run Your Car Without Gasoline - Nexus article minus pix Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2LPGd.0.wh2.1v7zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6126 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ron: >>What? Can you make heads or tails out of this? Looks like someone is confusing a refined or heightened sense, with the metaphysical (gematria). Lee ->>NEW SCIENCE NEWS >>Interesting news and views from the underground science network. Here, Barry Hilton describes Joe X's revolutionary fuel cells that can power a car by seemingly extracting energy from the ether. >It was believable up to the point where the engine wasn't connected to the >fuel source. Of course this may well be disinformation to discredit Joe X. >Ron From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 17:48:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11104; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:46:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:46:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980907051032.013e5700@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 05:10:32 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses In-Reply-To: <104601bdda24$763c8f00$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"sroq92.0.Mj2.Gv7zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6127 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:48 AM 9/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>From what I understand the max load of a Civil War Soldier, when weighed >>today is in the neighborhood of 40 lbs, even the Greeks and Romans carried >>not much more weight. Today the average soldier trundles on with 80 lb >>loads. Especially in Special Ops, all training? > > >Hasn't it been shown that the earths magnetic field is in a rate of decline >and possible reversal is not far off when there is NO field at all, >whoopie - we can all be He-MAN! Don't know about that, but we can wait and see. >>Why don't I believe I will live long enough to worry about the future - >>because I don't believe in much or immortality. All things perish. > >What about the energy of the universe - even if we collapse back to a >singularity it is still there always isn't it? I don't see why all things >have to perish - why a man cannot live for 200 years if he can get rid of >all the toxins - supply all the right nutrients - and reprogram DNA to not >initiate cell death but instead continue to grow and reproduce. I'm sure there is the possibility, but I doubt if the government would cotton much to everyone cashing social security checks for 135 years, neither would pension funds and insurance companies. Heard some stuff about monoatomic elements and longevity - David Hudson I think his name is. Supposedly he sells "powdered gold" or something like that, suppose to do wonders. Kind of expensive. Energy of the universe collapsing back to a singularity? Humm, if one believes in singularities, wormholes, event horizons and the Big Bang and entropy then sure why not, anything is possible. So long as the theory is far ahead enough in "time" and space then it is as good a shot as anything else, can't prove it, can't disprove it. Excuse me have to check with Cmdr Data, he's an expert on this, or is that 7 of 9 these days? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 17:49:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11193; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:46:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:46:21 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980907052111.01405e00@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 05:21:11 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Water Structure - Must Read In-Reply-To: <007d01bdda33$faa13ca0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ywsuH3.0.Ok2.Rv7zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6128 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks, but they still lay eggs, albeit rubbery. I understand though if you eliminate silica they don't even do that. Any information on that? Lee At 07:55 AM 9/7/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee and All > >I've heard this story before. Actually, if you deprive calcium to a chicken >the eggs come out like rubber. (From a chicken farmer). Put back the >calcium (lime chips) and the eggs return to normal. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >>Transmutation: A chicken deprived of calcium will continue to lay eggs. A >>chicken deprived of silica will stop laying eggs. > > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 17:50:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11828; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:47:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:47:34 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980907061529.013fbba0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 06:15:29 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <00af01bdda39$56d91420$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"T8q4c3.0.Ou2.Zw7zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6129 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks for the info. I of course plead ignorance. I just relayed information. I do respect your response though as it lacks the handwaving and authoritativeness. If I was younger and more inclined I would probably get into this stuff. All I'm interested in though is any good info on free energy, realizing the word is an oxymoron, and nothing is truly free, but there are, to my knowledge indications that the great EMG field of the Earth can be tapped and harnessed, isn't that supposedly what Tesla was up to when JP Morgan pulled the plug? By the way, have you heard of Peucci. An Italian immigrant invented a fund system in upstate NY, that serviced his neighborhood years before Bell. Supposedly drew its power from plates buried in the ground (different materials like a battery I think) and the conversations were transmitted, not through wires, but the ground itself. Bell, supposedly, used Peucci's carbon mike for his own telephone. Lee At 09:26 AM 9/7/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee and All > >Without wishing to take sides :-) (I hope I can have an opinion without >being labelled a supporter of any 'side'!) ...... Ohm's Law gives results as >accurate as your measuring devices and temperature compensation can manage. >I can remember doing this at college with some very accurate measuring >devices. We repeatedly calculated the result with different samples, and >the measured results agreed with Ohm's Law to the accuracy of the measuring >devices. > >I think your friend, Ron, is confusing actual circuit design with Ohm's law. >I think what he is saying is: "Mathematically simulated circuits based on >perfect components rarely work as predicted due to component tolerance". >Which would be completely true. That is why potentiometers, variable >inductors and variable capacitors are so popular! > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >> words, I personally know from my direct experience that Ohm's law gives >> values only within the tolerance range of the components used. It's the >> same old horseshit argument of, it works on paper... > > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 17:50:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11960; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:47:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:47:47 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980907070751.009bcc20@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 07:07:51 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Very Off Topic - Chicken Eggs In-Reply-To: <003601bdda8b$f9714020$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"gVsZF2.0.Nw2.kw7zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6131 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Good question: Where do humans get there calcium from, if they don't drink milk and use supplements (like myself) Lee At 02:17 PM 9/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >>He also said that diets lacking in certain minerals or proteins cause >>chickens to shut down egg production to increase its chance of survival. >>Doesn't seem to happen with calcium though. > > > >I would be interested in any information that your friend has, it seems that >they have a wide sample (thousands of animals) to learn from and see what >works and what doesn't. Imagine depleting calcium from thousands of human >subjects in the same exact environment, hard to do. A lot of data can be >gleaned from these type of people. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 17:50:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11984; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:47:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:47:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980907072151.0140c6d0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 07:21:51 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <35F4301E.20DF@tiac.net> References: <0fce01bdda21$22a73000$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"S6eqA1.0.jw2.nw7zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6132 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Then why can I use it as a compass when I do that? >Well, forget the electrons cause the magnetic field thing, thats a >description of>an electrostatic charge, where you rub something with silk and charge it >so it will attract small, non-iron objects. A glass rod and silk make a >good example of this. Hey, sounds like gravitational attraction to me, attracting non ferrous objects. Humm. And also rubbing a glass rod and silk transfers electrons from the silk to the rod, creating a deficit of electrons in the silk - hence static cling. At 12:12 PM 9/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >Bill Wallace wrote: >> >> So this only happens with electrons why not with positrons or protons? Why >> can't they constantly recycle? >> >> >The question of a magnet, I think, can be easily understood when one >> >realizes that one can create a magnet by rubbing a needle with a silk >> >scarf. Electrons are stripped off the scarf (creating static cling) and >> >transferred to the needle. The needle is then overcharged, with electrons >> >now being pushed in one end and out the other and constantly recycling. > >Actually, rubbing silk will impart an electrostatic charge,`but will not >magnetize the needle. To do that, you rub it with another magnet. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 17:52:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11939; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:47:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:47:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980907070645.009c6420@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 07:06:45 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <003501bdda8b$f36c1ce0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"SmVAf2.0.0w2.iw7zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6130 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If one conceptualizes a magnet as an overcharged object, then electrons are being forced out one end and in another - flow. What other particles are there that we really know about, I don't mean theoretical, but particles that do things. Just asking? At 02:15 PM 9/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >Why is their a property (IE magnetism) that only propagates the flow of >electrons, why not the flow of other particles? Why could there NOT be >something to propagate them? > > > >>Hi Bill and All >> >>I think the positrons are the anti-matter counterpart to electrons. That's >>why we don't use them too often. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Bill Wallace >>>makes alignment in other materials - I just wondered why we don't have >>>materials that can do this with positrons, why only negatively charged >>>particles(electrons) >> >> >>Best regards >> >>David Callaghan >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 18:03:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18403; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:59:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:59:19 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:58:41 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: lightspring@jps.net (Thomas Spellman) Subject: Re: Cell Death Resent-Message-ID: <"NTnrB3.0.SV4.c58zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6133 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I don't think now is the time to have a world of immortals, but one day >hopefully we will achieve the social intelligence to deserve that. >What do you think are the most direct things people can do today to preserve >health? Meditation is one. Thomas Spellman lightspring@jps.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 18:17:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25314; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:16:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:16:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980906073437.00b1a480@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 07:34:37 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics/TVQ Lives In-Reply-To: <35F46AB6.73EA@tiac.net> References: <001701bdd9c4$e310fa40$947e02d0@jsburch.csw.com> <3.0.5.32.19980906083745.00b4a850@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980906124631.009123b0@rockisland.com> <35F42E87.4843@tiac.net> <35F43260.4289@keelynet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2pioy1.0.3B6.LL8zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6134 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:22 PM 9/7/98 -0700,Bob Shannon wrote: > >If I'm wrong about that, and critical review is improper here, I'll be >glad to unsubscribe. Got my vote on that one. More than difference of opinion.Trust and credibility lost can not be recovered. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 19:29:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12438; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 19:27:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 19:27:31 -0700 Message-ID: <35F4BE4C.44AA@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 22:19:08 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics/TVQ Lives References: <001701bdd9c4$e310fa40$947e02d0@jsburch.csw.com> <3.0.5.32.19980906083745.00b4a850@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980906124631.009123b0@rockisland.com> <35F42E87.4843@tiac.net> <35F43260.4289@keelynet.com> <3.0.5.32.19980906073437.00b1a480@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hYepD1.0.F23.IO9zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6135 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > At 04:22 PM 9/7/98 -0700,Bob Shannon wrote: > > > >If I'm wrong about that, and critical review is improper here, I'll be > >glad to unsubscribe. > > Got my vote on that one. More than difference of opinion.Trust and > credibility lost can not be recovered. Understood Lee. Jerry Decker has petitioned Bill, our moderator to excommunicate us both over this affair (Jerry and myself that is). The only thing that is really credibly here, are the facts, not the stories. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 19:38:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16300; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 19:37:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 19:37:42 -0700 Message-ID: <35F4C0B1.36C0@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 22:29:21 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics References: <3.0.5.32.19980907061529.013fbba0@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"L9VLp3.0.c-3.sX9zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6136 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > If I was younger and more inclined I would probably get into this stuff. > All I'm interested in though is any good info on free energy, realizing the > word is an oxymoron, and nothing is truly free, but there are, to my > knowledge indications that the great EMG field of the Earth can be tapped > and harnessed, isn't that supposedly what Tesla was up to when JP Morgan > pulled the plug? Earth currents can indeed be tapped, I fully agree. Have you seen the Stubblefield devices? Tesla is thought to have been developing a lossless energy transmission system at Wardencliff(sp?) but written evidence is as scarce as hens teeth (with calcium). Others beleive that the system he was building tapped some existing energy source rather than simply distributed existing energy supplies. I'm not sure we will ever know what the truth actually was. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 19:59:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23268; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 19:57:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 19:57:55 -0700 Message-ID: <35F5A47D.CCF@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 14:41:17 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ohms Law References: <013a01bdd8ba$e19077a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> <35F17197.5B43@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-6P463.0.Sh5.oq9zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6137 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, The recent disagreements regarding Ohms Law are interesting, but I wonder if the real point is being missed in the expression of contrary views. It's seems to me that it's a bit like arguing over minor differences in the motion of the Sun and planets as they move around the Earth. Which of course as everyone knows, is the indisputable and immovable centre of the universe. Let's face it, as with Ohm's Law, you can calculate 'quite' accurately how it will all behave: When the Sun and planets will reappear as they wend their way around the centre of creation. Does it matter if the basic premise might be completely wrong? The 'facts' are obvious, and everything works fine, so let's not touch it! The theory is proved by its prediction, God's in his heaven, and all's well with the universe. > > Ohms law gives you a ballpark figure > that is within a workable range......Live with it.. > > > Again, thats simply wrong. The facts speak for themselves, I personally > know from my direct experiance that Ohm's law gives exact values, not > approximate ones. > > We were taught Ohm's law, then we actually tested what we had learned, > and saw with our own eyes that it was exactly true. > But is it? Is Ohm's Law REALLY supported by the evidence? I think not! In its most simple form, Ohms Law requires an understanding of the two qualities we refer to as 'voltage' and 'resistance', and the quantative action of what we call an 'electrical current'. To each of these we have assigned logically derived and inter-related units called volts, ohms and amperes. However, in themselves, the nature of voltage and resistance depends totally on the evidential assumptions we used to formulate our concept of exactly what an 'electrical current is in the first place! We decided that an electrical current was the movement of electrons/charge carriers in a 'conductor'. And we quantified that 'current', by defining it as an ampere, which is a 'rate of flow' of one coulomb of electricity per second, where one coulomb is 6.29 x 10^18 electrons, ....or I=Q/t. So if THAT concept should ever fail in any way, it is not only Ohm's law that would have to come under very close scrutiny. By implication, Ohm's Law is used to support the assumptions and theoretical explanation of other electrical phenomena as well. And in some cases, those assumptions have been shown subsequently to be in error, or contradictory, or simply just not supported by the experimental evidence. There are many practical and experimental ways to test this most basic assumption of Ohm's Law. For example, that it is the electrical current (as envisaged in Ohm's law), that is the prime causal agent in the formation of a magnetic field around an electrical conductor. Simple experimental evidence and a close examination of this phenomena shows that this assumption is clearly, patently, and provably incorrect! Although we are still unable to explain exactly what this magnetic field is, we persist in the error of defining the energy it contains as 0.5LI^2. However in the light of more recent understandings in physics, it might be a little more appropriate to define it as LV^2/2R^2. And if you look at it all again very carefully you find that: Within simple inductive constraints, and using conventional calculations, it is clear that for a given input power required to maintain a steady-state magnetic field in a coil, that: 1) the magnetic field strength is proportional to the square root of the volume of wire used times the square root of the input power, 2) the stored energy in the magnetic field is proportional to the volume of wire used times the input power. That is, assuming that the resistance of the coil is much larger than the resistance of the DC voltage source, and the dimensions of the coil are relatively constant, i.e., the height and average radius of the coil don't change much when more windings are added. Voltage, wire gauge, and number of windings can alter. That's the truth! Oh sure, I know what you'r going to say. But it takes longer to form the magnetic field, which means you have to put MORE 'energy' into it to begin with ...i.e. power over time, and that's all you'll get out of it again at the end of the day......Right? Ok, if an electrical current 'IS' the movement of charge carriers as conceived in Ohm's Law, it would make much more sense if we were to use as few of them as possible to achieve our electrical ends. In other words, why transfer so many charge carriers over such a long time to achieve the energy of a particular inductor's magnetic field strength. The conventional answer is "because the inductor is forced to by its inherent time constant which is calculated in seconds simply as L/R, being that time required to reach 63% of its final value. And it takes about 5 time constants to reach 99% of the applied value. Correct? Not really. What happens if you initially apply a very much higher voltage to the inductor than is necessary to reach the electrical current value you require. The time constant is still the same, but the time it takes to reach that value is very MUCH shorter. In other words, the front of your current curve is now extremely steep. But if L/R remains constant the current decay occurs over a much LONGER time period, which means that a GREATER number of charge carriers are moved around your circuit, than were in fact required to establish the initial energy of the magnetic field in the first place. Yes I know what you'r going to say! The energy input and output are still exactly the same. Yes of course they are, I agree..... and it's because of the different VOLTAGE involved. NOT the movement of charge as an electrical 'current', as is defined in Ohm's Law. In other words, one energy was achieved largely without any movement of charge carriers over time, and the subsequently released energy moved a whole lot more of them over time. So tell me again about the concept of an electrical 'current' in Ohm's Law as it relates to 'energy'. Another classic example is the matter of a circuit's entropy change, when charging a capacitor in a number of incremental voltage steps. That is, the dissipation of energy as heat and motion in a circuit's resistance. A similar contradiction occurs, and this instance very clearly confounds the current view of an electrical current as described by Ohm's Law! And while I note that Mr. Tom Beardon commented on the importance of this experimental evidence, I suspect he may have missed the real temporal implications. i.e. those that are normally implied by the time constant CR. Now tell me how correct this basic assumption in Ohm's Law is!! It starts to become very clear that the causal assumptions contained in Ohm's Law might just have to be very seriously revisited. And perhaps we might also have to consider whether Ohm's Law is just another 'special case'. One that only applies under a particular set of limited conditions. And if that proves right, maybe God's not in his heaven, and all's not quite as right with the universe as we first thought. Regards, Stuart -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 20:31:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00313; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:28:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:28:48 -0700 Message-ID: <35F4CCA9.66CE@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 23:20:25 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ohms Law References: <013a01bdd8ba$e19077a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> <35F17197.5B43@tiac.net> <35F5A47D.CCF@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LWOiF2.0.i4.mHAzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6138 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Stuart Rae wrote: > Oh sure, I know what you'r going to say. But it takes longer to form the > magnetic field, which means you have to put MORE 'energy' into it to begin > with ...i.e. power over time, and that's all you'll get out of it again at > the end of the day......Right? I'm with you so far... > The conventional answer is "because the inductor is forced to by its inherent > time constant which is calculated in seconds simply as L/R, being that time > required to reach 63% of its final value. And it takes about 5 time constants > to reach 99% of the applied value. Correct? > > Not really. What happens if you initially apply a very much higher > voltage to the inductor than is necessary to reach the electrical current > value you require. The time constant is still the same, but the time it takes > to reach that value is very MUCH shorter. In other words, the front of your > current curve is now extremely steep. So we put the power into the coil faster, and suffer less loss? > But if L/R remains constant the current decay occurs over a much LONGER time > period, which means that a GREATER number of charge carriers are moved around > your circuit, than were in fact required to establish the initial energy of > the magnetic field in the first place. > > Yes I know what you'r going to say! The energy input and output are still > exactly the same. Yes of course they are, I agree..... and it's because of > the different VOLTAGE involved. NOT the movement of charge as an electrical > 'current', as is defined in Ohm's Law. With that higher voltage, we also see "the front of your current curve is now extremely steep." More charge carriers per unit of time than if we used a lower voltage. If our current curve is steeper as you say, why is this not also a case of the movement of charge being different? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 20:51:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08245; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:50:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:50:39 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980907102518.008778e0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 10:25:18 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <35F4C0B1.36C0@tiac.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980907061529.013fbba0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"R64tn2.0.l02.EcAzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6139 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:29 PM 9/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: > > > >> If I was younger and more inclined I would probably get into this stuff. >> All I'm interested in though is any good info on free energy, realizing the >> word is an oxymoron, and nothing is truly free, but there are, to my >> knowledge indications that the great EMG field of the Earth can be tapped >> and harnessed, isn't that supposedly what Tesla was up to when JP Morgan >> pulled the plug? > >Earth currents can indeed be tapped, I fully agree. > >Have you seen the Stubblefield devices? > >Tesla is thought to have been developing a lossless energy transmission >system at Wardencliff(sp?) but written evidence is as scarce as hens >teeth (with calcium). >Others beleive that the system he was building tapped some existing >energy source rather than simply distributed existing energy supplies. > >I'm not sure we will ever know what the truth actually was. Another in a long list of enigmas and hidden secrets, the World abounds and secrets reign where money and power control. If there are not issues of money and/or power then there are no secrets other than those taken with folk to their grave because no one would listen, no one would hear. More ears everyone. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 21:30:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23882; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:27:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:27:15 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980907110134.0086eea0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 11:01:34 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Ohms Law Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Mbiwf2.0.4r5.Y8Bzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6141 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: STu that's a keeper, thanks for contributing to my education Lee Hi All, The recent disagreements regarding Ohms Law are interesting, but I wonder if the real point is being missed in the expression of contrary views. It's seems to me that it's a bit like arguing over minor differences in the motion of the Sun and planets as they move around the Earth. Which of course as everyone knows, is the indisputable and immovable centre of the universe. Let's face it, as with Ohm's Law, you can calculate 'quite' accurately how it will all behave: When the Sun and planets will reappear as they wend their way around the centre of creation. Does it matter if the basic premise might be completely wrong? The 'facts' are obvious, and everything works fine, so let's not touch it! The theory is proved by its prediction, God's in his heaven, and all's well with the universe. > > Ohms law gives you a ballpark figure > that is within a workable range......Live with it.. > > > Again, thats simply wrong. The facts speak for themselves, I personally > know from my direct experiance that Ohm's law gives exact values, not > approximate ones. > > We were taught Ohm's law, then we actually tested what we had learned, > and saw with our own eyes that it was exactly true. > But is it? Is Ohm's Law REALLY supported by the evidence? I think not! In its most simple form, Ohms Law requires an understanding of the two qualities we refer to as 'voltage' and 'resistance', and the quantative action of what we call an 'electrical current'. To each of these we have assigned logically derived and inter-related units called volts, ohms and amperes. However, in themselves, the nature of voltage and resistance depends totally on the evidential assumptions we used to formulate our concept of exactly what an 'electrical current is in the first place! We decided that an electrical current was the movement of electrons/charge carriers in a 'conductor'. And we quantified that 'current', by defining it as an ampere, which is a 'rate of flow' of one coulomb of electricity per second, where one coulomb is 6.29 x 10^18 electrons, ....or I=Q/t. So if THAT concept should ever fail in any way, it is not only Ohm's law that would have to come under very close scrutiny. By implication, Ohm's Law is used to support the assumptions and theoretical explanation of other electrical phenomena as well. And in some cases, those assumptions have been shown subsequently to be in error, or contradictory, or simply just not supported by the experimental evidence. There are many practical and experimental ways to test this most basic assumption of Ohm's Law. For example, that it is the electrical current (as envisaged in Ohm's law), that is the prime causal agent in the formation of a magnetic field around an electrical conductor. Simple experimental evidence and a close examination of this phenomena shows that this assumption is clearly, patently, and provably incorrect! Although we are still unable to explain exactly what this magnetic field is, we persist in the error of defining the energy it contains as 0.5LI^2. However in the light of more recent understandings in physics, it might be a little more appropriate to define it as LV^2/2R^2. And if you look at it all again very carefully you find that: Within simple inductive constraints, and using conventional calculations, it is clear that for a given input power required to maintain a steady-state magnetic field in a coil, that: 1) the magnetic field strength is proportional to the square root of the volume of wire used times the square root of the input power, 2) the stored energy in the magnetic field is proportional to the volume of wire used times the input power. That is, assuming that the resistance of the coil is much larger than the resistance of the DC voltage source, and the dimensions of the coil are relatively constant, i.e., the height and average radius of the coil don't change much when more windings are added. Voltage, wire gauge, and number of windings can alter. That's the truth! Oh sure, I know what you'r going to say. But it takes longer to form the magnetic field, which means you have to put MORE 'energy' into it to begin with ...i.e. power over time, and that's all you'll get out of it again at the end of the day......Right? Ok, if an electrical current 'IS' the movement of charge carriers as conceived in Ohm's Law, it would make much more sense if we were to use as few of them as possible to achieve our electrical ends. In other words, why transfer so many charge carriers over such a long time to achieve the energy of a particular inductor's magnetic field strength. The conventional answer is "because the inductor is forced to by its inherent time constant which is calculated in seconds simply as L/R, being that time required to reach 63% of its final value. And it takes about 5 time constants to reach 99% of the applied value. Correct? Not really. What happens if you initially apply a very much higher voltage to the inductor than is necessary to reach the electrical current value you require. The time constant is still the same, but the time it takes to reach that value is very MUCH shorter. In other words, the front of your current curve is now extremely steep. But if L/R remains constant the current decay occurs over a much LONGER time period, which means that a GREATER number of charge carriers are moved around your circuit, than were in fact required to establish the initial energy of the magnetic field in the first place. Yes I know what you'r going to say! The energy input and output are still exactly the same. Yes of course they are, I agree..... and it's because of the different VOLTAGE involved. NOT the movement of charge as an electrical 'current', as is defined in Ohm's Law. In other words, one energy was achieved largely without any movement of charge carriers over time, and the subsequently released energy moved a whole lot more of them over time. So tell me again about the concept of an electrical 'current' in Ohm's Law as it relates to 'energy'. Another classic example is the matter of a circuit's entropy change, when charging a capacitor in a number of incremental voltage steps. That is, the dissipation of energy as heat and motion in a circuit's resistance. A similar contradiction occurs, and this instance very clearly confounds the current view of an electrical current as described by Ohm's Law! And while I note that Mr. Tom Beardon commented on the importance of this experimental evidence, I suspect he may have missed the real temporal implications. i.e. those that are normally implied by the time constant CR. Now tell me how correct this basic assumption in Ohm's Law is!! It starts to become very clear that the causal assumptions contained in Ohm's Law might just have to be very seriously revisited. And perhaps we might also have to consider whether Ohm's Law is just another 'special case'. One that only applies under a particular set of limited conditions. And if that proves right, maybe God's not in his heaven, and all's not quite as right with the universe as we first thought. Regards, Stuart -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 21:30:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23795; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:26:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:26:54 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:28:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Chicken eggs (not so off-topic ?) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <00bc01bdda8e$be62d040$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"zJWrT2.0.ip5.E8Bzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6140 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Bill Wallace wrote: > >The chicken egg transmutation story comes from the research of Louis > >Kervran, based on observations in a Britanny farm in the 1930's, > > Never heard of him, but again he was able to see a wide sample population in > a similar environment. Hard for modern science to do this cheaply. > > >Kervran then went on to research lots of other instances of "biological > >transmutation" and "low energy transmutation". Which makes him, I guess, > the > >honorary founding father of LENR and LENT. > > > Do you have any other links or information? > I'm lucky to have the University of Illinois library at my disposal. I read Kervran's book a couple years ago. I believe the English version was published in 1975. He outlined his actual experiment with the chickens and several others he did to verify biological transmutation. Another such occurrance was an investigation of welders getting carbon momoxide poisoning while welding iron. Kervran did some tests and measurements and found very little carbon monoxide given off by the welding - not enough to poison anyone. He then thought back to a childhood incident where several children sitting next to a red-hot pot-bellied stove in a one-room schoolhouse got very ill. He theorized that red-hot iron somehow turns oxygen molecules into a metastable form which is converted in the human body into CO (one proton from one oxygen atom moves over to the other oxygen atom and it becomes a carbon monoxide molecule.) I'd highly recommend Kervran's book if you can find it in a library. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 21:32:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25645; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:30:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:30:22 -0700 Message-ID: <030301bddae1$15cb8c80$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:25:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"tPOli.0.EG6.RBBzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6142 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I'm sure there is the possibility, but I doubt if the government would >cotton much to everyone cashing social security checks for 135 years, >neither would pension funds and insurance companies. True, the world would have to completely change if this technology were made available and I can see where its release may not be the best thing, does not mean research is not going on however. If and when the process is available who do you think will decide who gets to live, does the laws of natural selection begin to break down in that kind of system? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 21:51:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00654; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:49:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:49:42 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:50:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Sender: Zack Widup Reply-To: Zack Widup Subject: Re: The trouble with science is.... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <0dfb01bdda0d$38789ae0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XPYhz.0.7A.bTBzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6143 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Bill Wallace wrote: > He sure is getting antsy, sign of dogmatic ideas being questioned, what do > you think? > > > > > > > > >> Einstein himself admitted that although he could mathematically prove his > >> theory, he doubted that it could be verified by observation. > > > >But he did live long enough to see verification of parts of his theory. > >Much more of it has been verified scince that time. > > > >You can dismiss a lot of emperical evidence as theory with the wave of a > >hand, but that does not alter the truth. > > > >> There are some leaps of faith, that are better not taken if we truly want > >> to progress as a species. > > > >What may look like a leap of faith to you has long proven to be a very > >safe bet. > > > I have been observing this thread and thought I would throw out an idea that has been kicking around in my head for a couple years now. There are many observations in the world that defy scientific explanation. ESP, telepathy, telekinesis, remote viewing, rhabdomancy, etc. are not put into equations and codified at this time. Several serious scientific studies of phenomena have been done (see MIND-REACH by Russell Targ and Hal Puthoff for one) but for the most part the phenomena still cannot be taught or experienced by everyone. From discussions I have had with many people, quite a few people experience one or more of these from time to time. Even more do not. To some people they have been a part of daily life (Pat Price, Ingo Swann, etc.) However, most people who have them cannot control them. I have frequently experienced quite a few of these. I have seen, heard and felt ghosts (one even tousled my hair once; it was witnessed by 4 other people). I often know what other people in my vicinity are thinking. I can tell when I am in the vicinity of certain mineral deposits. But I can't control any of these - they come and go by some mechanism I can't define. I worked in an electronics shop a few years ago. A man came in frequently looking for the old turntable arm bearing assemblies (mounted in ball bearings for a very low friction pivot). I got to talking with him and found out he was a farmer who had developed skill at rhabdomancy ("dowsing" to most people, although I don't like that term). He demonstrated it to me - he built devices with the turntable arm pivots and telescoping radio antennas. He found that he could adjust the length of the antenna to "tune" it to the wavelengths of people and objects. He "tuned" it to me and it followed me around the room as I walked. He said that it was a simple matter of tuning it to my car after tuning it to me, and went out into the parking lot and found my car in a matter of seconds (I am pretty sure he did not know beforehand which of the 30 or so cars there was mine). This fellow was an old farmer. He was not particularly bright and not very educated. Yet he had this ability he successfully taught to about 3 or 4 people and failed to teach to 10 or 20 other people who tried. He was kind of shy and unassuming - he was hesitant to even tell me what he was doing in the first place. He was not putting on an act (another of MY "ESP" feelings about the man). He said he had shown his development to various professors and scientists. Most laughed at him or called him a hoax. Some accused him of being Satanic. One very wise physics professor pointed at his bookshelf and said something like "if those books represent organized science, you are miles outside that bookshelf". I have also known several people who could walk into a room and have working equipment start to malfunction. On the reverse side, I have known a few people who could walk into a room and have broken equipment "repair" itself simply by their presence; it would fail again when they left. So what am I getting at? Well, maybe, just MAYBE, this enters into the free energy arena as well. Maybe the devices DON'T work for everyone. Maybe there is some special quality that Nikola Tesla, T. Henry Moray, Hendershot, John Bedini, etc. have (or had) that most people don't. I'm not saying this is a fact; I'm just asking you to consider the possibility. It could explain why no one has yet duplicated their reportedly working devices. Of course, I keep hoping I or someone else can come up with a real O/U/O device that can be mass-produced. So don't give up! Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 22:16:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08214; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:13:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:13:54 -0700 Message-ID: <051401bddae7$2eb730e0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: "Zack Widup" , Subject: Re: The trouble with science is.... Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:10:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"2IeaT1.0.B02.HqBzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6144 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have worked with technicians that have much more of a static buildup than others, perhaps it was their clothes, but all other things seemed equal, some people just seemed more "electrical", Without scientific study I cannot make any further comments. Any ideas? -----Original Message----- From: Zack Widup To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 12:51 AM Subject: Re: The trouble with science is.... >On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Bill Wallace wrote: > >> He sure is getting antsy, sign of dogmatic ideas being questioned, what do >> you think? >> >> > >> > >> > >> >> Einstein himself admitted that although he could mathematically prove his >> >> theory, he doubted that it could be verified by observation. >> > >> >But he did live long enough to see verification of parts of his theory. >> >Much more of it has been verified scince that time. >> > >> >You can dismiss a lot of emperical evidence as theory with the wave of a >> >hand, but that does not alter the truth. >> > >> >> There are some leaps of faith, that are better not taken if we truly want >> >> to progress as a species. >> > >> >What may look like a leap of faith to you has long proven to be a very >> >safe bet. >> > >> > >I have been observing this thread and thought I would throw out an idea >that has been kicking around in my head for a couple years now. > >There are many observations in the world that defy scientific >explanation. ESP, telepathy, telekinesis, remote viewing, rhabdomancy, etc. >are not put into equations and codified at this time. Several serious >scientific studies of phenomena have been done (see MIND-REACH by Russell >Targ and Hal Puthoff for one) but for the most part the phenomena still >cannot be taught or experienced by everyone. From discussions I have >had with many people, quite a few people experience one or more of these >from time to time. Even more do not. To some people they have been a >part of daily life (Pat Price, Ingo Swann, etc.) However, most people >who have them cannot control them. > >I have frequently experienced quite a few of these. I have seen, heard >and felt ghosts (one even tousled my hair once; it was witnessed by 4 >other people). I often know what other people in my vicinity are >thinking. I can tell when I am in the vicinity of certain mineral >deposits. But I can't control any of these - they come and go by some >mechanism I can't define. > >I worked in an electronics shop a few years ago. A man came in >frequently looking for the old turntable arm bearing assemblies (mounted >in ball bearings for a very low friction pivot). I got to talking with >him and found out he was a farmer who had developed skill at rhabdomancy >("dowsing" to most people, although I don't like that term). He >demonstrated it to me - he built devices with the turntable arm pivots >and telescoping radio antennas. He found that he could adjust the length >of the antenna to "tune" it to the wavelengths of people and objects. He >"tuned" it to me and it followed me around the room as I walked. He said >that it was a simple matter of tuning it to my car after tuning it to me, >and went out into the parking lot and found my car in a matter of >seconds (I am pretty sure he did not know beforehand which of the 30 or >so cars there was mine). This fellow was an old farmer. He was not >particularly bright and not very educated. Yet he had this ability he >successfully taught to about 3 or 4 people and failed to teach to 10 or 20 >other people who tried. He was kind of shy and unassuming - he was hesitant >to even tell me what he was doing in the first place. He was not putting on >an act (another of MY "ESP" feelings about the man). He said he had >shown his development to various professors and scientists. Most laughed >at him or called him a hoax. Some accused him of being Satanic. One >very wise physics professor pointed at his bookshelf and said something >like "if those books represent organized science, you are miles outside >that bookshelf". > >I have also known several people who could walk into a room and have >working equipment start to malfunction. On the reverse side, I have >known a few people who could walk into a room and have broken equipment >"repair" itself simply by their presence; it would fail again when they >left. > >So what am I getting at? Well, maybe, just MAYBE, this enters into the >free energy arena as well. Maybe the devices DON'T work for everyone. >Maybe there is some special quality that Nikola Tesla, T. Henry Moray, >Hendershot, John Bedini, etc. have (or had) that most people don't. I'm >not saying this is a fact; I'm just asking you to consider the >possibility. It could explain why no one has yet duplicated their >reportedly working devices. > >Of course, I keep hoping I or someone else can come up with a real O/U/O >device that can be mass-produced. So don't give up! > >Zack > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 22:18:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09501; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:17:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:17:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809080518.WAA23062@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Back to Basics Resent-Message-ID: <"FeTIW3.0.JK2.HtBzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6145 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee, At 07:21 AM 9/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >Then why can I use it as a compass when I do that? Maybe it is already magnetic? You could do some simple tests that would affect the charge and see if they affect your compass results. For example, connect it to: a + terminal of a HV power supply, to the - terminal, to a grounded metal pipe, etc. Hey, bury it or just hold it in your hand. Then you could do other tests to change its magnetic properties and see what effect they cause. > >>Well, forget the electrons cause the magnetic field thing, thats a >>description of>an electrostatic charge, where you rub something with silk >and charge it >>so it will attract small, non-iron objects. A glass rod and silk make a >>good example of this. > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 23:01:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20685; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:59:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:59:46 -0700 From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: <80b589a5.35f4c7de@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:59:58 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Resent-Message-ID: <"j_7ep1.0.735.IVCzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6146 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-09-07 21:01:52 EDT, you write: << Heard some stuff about monoatomic elements and longevity - David Hudson I think his name is. Supposedly he sells "powdered gold" or something like that, suppose to do wonders. >> Yes it regenerate the DNA. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 23:12:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA22478; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:04:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:04:12 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <28bb6925.35f4c8f0@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:04:32 EDT To: mark@plug-in.com.br Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Questions on Newman's motor Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"LlmWr3.0.8V5.SZCzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6147 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 07/09/1998 21:30:19, mark@plug-in.com.br wrote : << Just as curiosity, did you experiment with a smaller coil ?>> Yes of course, I have tried a coil with 6.000 meters copper wire and also smaller coils instead of my actual 20.000 meters coil. The negative current vanish with the reduction of the length. ------------------------ <<> > The MostFet transistors and also IGBTs have an internal diode and also a small > parasitic capacitance which can kill the negative current. The use of HV > vacuum triode will by better for avoiding this or some special vacuum spark > gap swichers. Xenon lamps, perhaps ? >> Yes, but the main problem with the xenon lamps is that the xenon lamp has a tendancy to continue to conduct with the negative spikes generated by the coil, and by this way the breakdown of the current is not fastest enough and the effect is killed. The main effect is produced with "an incremental spark gap", this is the best setup which shows the maximum of negative current, as I have explained in my web site at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NMac0629.htm Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 23:22:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA26229; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:18:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:18:57 -0700 Message-ID: <054301bddaf0$458b3880$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Back to Basics/TVQ Lives Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:17:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"qvbWq3.0.gP6.GnCzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6148 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >There are plans on Bill Beaty's Weird Science web page that detail the >construction of a working Scalar (non Hertzian wave) detector, What are its best uses? and test >pulse generator. And its best uses? There is also a construction article on a device >called an Electrostatic Gradiometer. Could it be used to test people for higher static electrical charge? >The detectors and gradiometers are used in alternative science >investigations, and even investigations of 'paranormal' phenomena where >they give consistant data according to their users. > >In the scalar detector article, a series of modifications are discussed >where the device will produce a very small, but constant power output, >enough to drive a very modest load, with no power input. Where is it getting this energy from? >Well, I've been given the idea that criticism is often less then >welcome. History proves criticism is necessary to break dogmatic ideals. Criticize everyone, even the ones doing the criticism. In the end only the truth will remain. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 23:25:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28140; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:22:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:22:49 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809080623.XAA21432@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Ohms Law Resent-Message-ID: <"7Aw2Y.0.ct6.uqCzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6149 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stuart and all, At 02:41 PM 9/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi All, > >There are many practical and experimental ways to test this most basic >assumption of Ohm's Law. For example, that it is the electrical current (as >envisaged in Ohm's law), that is the prime causal agent in the formation of a >magnetic field around an electrical conductor. Simple experimental evidence >and a close examination of this phenomena shows that this assumption is >clearly, patently, and provably incorrect! Can you describe these simple experiments? > >Although we are still unable to explain exactly what this magnetic field >is, we persist in the error of defining the energy it contains as 0.5LI^2. >However in the light of more recent understandings in physics, it >might be a little more appropriate to define it as LV^2/2R^2. What is "V", voltage across the inductor? What are the more recent understandings in Physics that say that "V/R" in your above equations is not equal to "I" > >And if you look at it all again very carefully you find that: > >Within simple inductive constraints, and using conventional calculations, it >is clear that for a given input power required to maintain a steady-state >magnetic field in a coil, that: > >1) the magnetic field strength is proportional to the square root of the >volume of wire used times the square root of the input power, Help me, your conclusion isn't clear to me yet :-). If I take a simple solenoid with N turns and a current I, I get a certain H field for a given length and diameter. ( H proportional to N*I) If the wire has a cross sectional area of A, then the volume is proportional to N*A. The input power is proportional to I* (V= I*N/A) = I^2*N/A. So the Volume*input power is proportional to (N*I)^2 as you say. This seems to SUPPORT Ohm's law. If the wire has a different resistivity, the constant of proportionality and your 1) changes. The extreme would be a superconducting solenoid where the input power = 0. > >2) the stored energy in the magnetic field is proportional to the volume of >wire used times the input power. >... Yes, if 1) then 2). -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 7 23:44:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01622; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <057901bddaf2$6a4528a0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:29:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"dxFM73.0.GP.z7Dzr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6150 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Do you have info or links? > Heard some stuff about monoatomic elements and longevity - David Hudson I > think his name is. Supposedly he sells "powdered gold" or something like > that, suppose to do wonders. > >> > >Yes it regenerate the DNA. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 00:02:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA02127; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:56:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:56:03 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:57:41 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980907070645.009c6420@rockisland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"aGoO63.0.9X.2KDzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6151 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Lee Markland wrote: If one conceptualizes a magnet as an overcharged object, then electrons are being forced out one end and in another - flow. -------------------?? What if one conceptualizes a magnets force (instead of flow) as a Force(d) BALANCE? Exspandable in All directions as a rubber-band? Not Overcharged, just there, waiting to be 'stretched'! ?? Your ..'Forced' out of one end into the other ... opens ~old questions of course~. FORCED/Powered demands from where & what/how?????? just curious also -=se=- steve (yes, magnets (THEY) WORK & I love 'EM!:) ekwall WHERE is the work? Thanks.. happy labor days (belated:}) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 00:47:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA12107; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:45:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:45:46 -0700 Message-ID: <35F5E8D1.4A09@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 19:32:49 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ohms Law References: <013a01bdd8ba$e19077a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> <35F17197.5B43@tiac.net> <35F5A47D.CCF@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <35F4CCA9.66CE@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rYMLy3.0.0z2.f2Ezr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6152 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi there Bob! > > > > to reach that value is very MUCH shorter. In other words, the front of > > your current curve is now extremely steep. > > > > So we put the power into the coil faster, and suffer less loss? > In a manner of speaking, exactly.......:-) And don't forget about what an electron does when suddenly subject to a very high electrical field! And electrons are also known to have 'magnetic moments' which are also intimately tied to their electrical characteristics...:-) > > > > the different VOLTAGE involved. NOT the movement of charge as an > > electrical 'current', as is defined in Ohm's Law. > > > > With that higher voltage, we also see "the front of your current curve > is now extremely steep." More charge carriers per unit of time than if > we used a lower voltage. > > If our current curve is steeper as you say, why is this not also a case > of the movement of charge being different? > Because the way I see it, is that we are dealing here with two different things. One is a RATE of charge movement, and the other is a its VOLUME in Coulombs. It is not a matter of the "charge carriers per unit of time" that's the key factor, but rather a matter of how many charge units are actually transferred to achieve that particular end accomplishment of a certain "RATE of electrical flow". That is, in terms of Coulombs (lumps of electricity) per unit of time. For example, in the days of Mr Ohm, it was quite common to use water flow as an analogy to describe the mechanisms of an electrical current or 'charge' transfer' as 'a flow' of electricity. So if you increase the flow of water from a tap, linearly from zero, to achieve a flow of one litre per second.... and you do that over a time period of one second, how much water do you end up with in a bucket under the tap, when you have achieved that particular flow goal? The average FLOW is of course 0.5 litres per second. And as it occurs over a time period of one second, the water that ends up in the bucket is 0.5 litres. On the other hand, if you increase the water from a tap, linearly from zero, to achieve a flow rate of one litre per second.... and you do so over a time period of TEN SECONDS, how many litres of water do you have in the bucket under the tap when you have achieved THAT particular flow goal? Again, the average FLOW is, of course, 0.5 litres per second as we agree ( i.e. carriers per unit of time). But it seem to me, that the water in the bucket is now FIVE litres. In other words you had to move MORE "charge carriers" (or water) to achieve your objective "FLOW RATE" of one litre per second because of the greater TIME involved. In other words we are trading off 'TIME' in terms of 'ENERGY'. And in so doing, we are also trading off the conventional concept that we need to move 'charge carriers' to establish a particular level of "Electrical ENERGY", which we have described as W = 0.5 LI^2 Joules (or LI^2/2R^2 ...:-) (otherwise known electrically as "Watt-Seconds"). But of course, and as ever, I stand ready to have my ignorance of simple physics corrected....:-) And if not, I will assume that the rest of the ideas in my original post are conceded...... Best Regards All, Stuart -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 02:14:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26696; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:12:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:12:47 -0700 Message-ID: <006e01bddb08$c5098a40$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Chicken Eggs (Maybe not so off topic) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:52:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"SlqEy3.0.0X6.EKFzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6153 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee and All Lots of food contains calcium. If you are eating food without calcium, your body will first use calcium from your teeth, usually starting at the back with the molar's. Pregnant malnourished women in third world countries often loose their teeth. Any dentist's out there? After that I think it extracted from the largest bones in the body, making them weaker. Many elderly people (in the UK at least) have had diets without enough calcium for the vast majority of their lives. -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland >Good question: Where do humans get there calcium from, if they don't drink >milk and use supplements (like myself) Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 02:43:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA30035; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:41:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:41:36 -0700 Message-ID: <008d01bddb0c$c62bed60$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: , Subject: Re: Questions on Newman's motor Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:30:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Fnd5H.0.4L7.FlFzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6154 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Louis What is the best efficiency you have achieved so far with your Newman motor? I have difficulty in understanding where the coil is positioned in relation to the magnets that are on the central rotor. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 04:00:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA06647; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:51:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:51:06 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:51:26 EDT To: DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Questions on Newman's motor Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"qkWEw1.0.nd1.PmGzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6155 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 08/09/1998 11:43:23, DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk wrote : << I have difficulty in understanding where the coil is positioned in relation to the magnets that are on the central rotor. >> You will find the best firing setup, that I have used, in my web site at : http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/images/qmfip.JPG Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 04:12:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA14088; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 04:10:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 04:10:28 -0700 Message-ID: <024401bddb19$2fed7b40$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Moderation Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:09:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"JQlsA.0.nR3.T2Hzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6158 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee, Bob and All In the absence of any moderation so far by Bill B, I have performed a 'post mortem' of all the posts that have been made over the last month. The following points are my opinion only and ignore posts made by Jerry W Decker, which I don't think any of us can or should comment on. * We have to remember that the written word is interpreted differently than when we are speaking face to face with people. There are no facial expressions or body language to infer meaning. That's why we have the smiley faces etc to alter context. * Initially, both Lee and Bob did not understand where each other were 'coming from'. (Personally, I did not understand where Lee was coming from initially) * Lee was after definitive proof. * Bob (and I) offered 'the current best' explanations to questions asked by Lee * This led to an exchange between Lee and Bob, escalating with each post. * Each then both made posts with hints of 'peace offering'. * Each then became more and more defensive (not good) Seems pretty much like a standard 'personality clash' to me, with each slightly mis-interpreting the context of dialog. As soon as you become defensive, personal and intellectual insults chalk up another mark. Not wishing to see any of you leave or be barred from the list, how about you both agree that you got off to a bad start, and agree to reconcile your differences and give each other a fresh start. I think if both of you met initially face to face you would be a lot more friendly now. We have nearly got to this stage before, with some people making RTFM posts to questions about basic physics. This is natural, human behaviour, which we are all guilty of to some extent. None of us like to be wrong, and most of us like to help others, and also compete (again natural). In the absence of physically competing for dominance, the battle has become intellectual. We must all learn to combat these sub-conscious urges to compete as they only cloud our judgement. Has anyone ever watched a game show and not said 'Fancy not knowing the answer to that!!' (or similar)? I admit to making posts myself, which in retrospect, seem to be very sarcastic. I now recheck everything I type to make sure it couldn't be construed as insulting. Its very easy to do with written words. It's amazing how a little smiley face alters context. *How about it guys?* Restore my faith in the triumph of human reasoning. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk PS... Next case M'Lud From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 04:12:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA14004; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 04:10:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 04:10:18 -0700 Message-ID: <024201bddb19$2dccbe20$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Ohms Law Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:55:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"MCZh91.0.VQ3.P2Hzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6156 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All I stand to be corrected (very fuzzy memory), but doesn't Ohm's Law 'cover' itself by stating something like: "The current flowing between two points in an 'OHMIC CONDUCTOR' is proportional to the PD across the two points at a constant temperature" An OHMIC CONDUCTOR is a linear conductor that obeys Ohm's Law. It's a no lose situation. If I am correct, there can be no more arguing about Ohm's Law. Also (even fuzzier now), isn't an Ampere defined as: "The amount of current required to provide a force of 1N between infinitely long parallel conductors spaced 1m apart", with Coulombs derived from this? Now there's a testable theory :-) Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 04:12:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA14115; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 04:10:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 04:10:29 -0700 Message-ID: <024301bddb19$2ed94c20$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: , Subject: Re: Chicken eggs Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:09:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"eINnN.0.cQ3.P2Hzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6157 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jim and All I will take into account ideas mentioned by all and ask my friend to perform the experiments. He shouldn't have a problem, after all - it won't cost him anything. Can someone tell me how to identify Mica? Thanks for the interest. Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk -----Original Message----- From: Jim Day >Hello David, > >In a recent posting about chicken eggs, you wrote: > >> [...] I will ask my friend if he wouldn't mind partaking in >> a little experiment. He normally gives lime chips (or similar) >> to chickens that don't get the gravel. I'll try to get him to >> give some of them sand instead and see what we get. [...] > >That would be a very interestng experiment and I hope that your >friend will perform such an experiment. However, I'm not sure >that chickens would be able to extract silicon from sand. As >Jean-Pierre Lentin wrote in a recent posting: > >> Chickens were seen scratching the soil and pecking small >> pebbles of mica, a part of granite and a silica composite. > >So it might be preferable to try small pebbles of mica first. > >Incidentally, in Chapter 6 of his book, Louis Kervran says that, >unlike chickens, we humans are not able to transmute silicon >ingested in mineral form but are able to transmute silicon when >ingested in an organic form. As an example of this, he cites >the use of the Horsetail plant by people who are deficient in >calcium. > >If your friend does experiment with chickens I would be very >interested in learning the results of the experiment. I'm >sure that it would be of interest to other subscribers to the >FreeNRG-L newsgroup also. > >Regards, > >Jim Day (ad368@lafn.org) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 05:08:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA31642; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:07:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:07:40 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980908032228.00b3cbd0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 03:22:28 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses In-Reply-To: <030301bddae1$15cb8c80$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"CK2nU.0.Kk7.CuHzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6159 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:25 AM 9/8/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >True, the world would have to completely change if this technology were made >available and I can see where its release may not be the best thing, does >not mean research is not going on however. If and when the process is >available who do you think will decide who gets to live, does the laws of >natural selection begin to break down in that kind of system? Are you positive there really is such a thing as a law of natural selection? You know me, I don't cotton much to laws. If natural selection were indeed a law, there would be no homo sapiens, nor you and I, if there were. Man is the weakest and most defenseless of creatures. Just camp out on the Serengeti or stroll the Alaskan wilds (without firearms of weapons). A baboon is strong and has fangs, a chimp is strong has fangs and can climb trees rapidly. Man is prey, less challenging to a lion or bear than a gazelle. It had to take a long time before man learned to use fire, sticks and the jawbone of a zebra as a weapon. I doubt if he could have survived on his on all that time. something wrong with evolution and natural selection. Don't know where you got that from my remarks. Who lives and who dies in a world with an increasing population and access to longevity, will be determined by who has the money. Same way it is now. The same choices you are discussing are being made thousands of times a day throughout this country and millions througout the world. Who gets medical care, who gets a kidney transplant, who is given a chance at life against all odds in a surgical unit? He or she who has money, power and influence? That's who. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 05:39:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA05382; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:36:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:36:38 -0700 Message-ID: <034501bddb25$3fdc0a60$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Spectrum Analysis Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:36:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"_xbhk.0.0K1.LJIzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6160 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All If anyone wants an excellent Spectrum Analysis package go here: http://www.monumental.com/rshorne/gram.html Best regards David Callaghan DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 06:17:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA17086; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:16:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:16:24 -0700 Message-ID: <03ba01bddb2a$cd512b00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Natural Selection Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:15:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"TeHSO3.0.tA4.euIzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6161 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee and All Chimps live in groups for protection. Chimps also defend themselves with weapons such as rocks and sticks. My guess is that early humans were bigger, stronger, and more intelligent than chimps. We also walked fairly upright, making us appear to be larger than we actually are. Many predators use apparent size as a basis on whether it is worth risking an attack. For instance a domestic cat will nearly always choose to run rather than fight an animal that appears to be larger than itself. Instances using apparent size to deter predators are to be found throughout nature. Cats stand their fur on end and arch their backs, there are frogs and fish that inflate themselves with air etc etc. Early man (from studying skeletons) was much more powerful than we are today. Guesses put our early strength on par or above that of gorilla's. When we learned to use tools, the need to be powerful was not as great. If you don't use it, you lose it. Even today, the majority of animals are scared of humans. I recently saw on TV an unarmed 'native' shepherd walking towards a large male lion to scare it off. We can make an infinite variety of sounds and gestures that confuse animals as to our strength. Another TV program I recently watched was about a lion tamer. He said the animals would find ways to try to test his strength. He also said that if any of the cats knew his true strength, they would be no longer suitable for his act, as they would then see themselves as dominant and think they should be in charge (or simply kill him). The cats were very intelligent and sly as well. All dogs (with a few notable exceptions such as Pit-Bulls) will run if you attack them on their own. I've had a few tussles with Dobermans and German Shepherds in my time! Animals can smell fear. Most mammals emit a scent when they are afraid due to the hormone rush of the 'fight or flight' response. That's why some people can walk up to a viscous dog and the dog is playful, while others, even if they appear unafraid, incur the wrath of the dog. The people who can walk up to viscous dogs are genuinely not afraid (and probably mad -} ) In theory we should evolve to some puny, weak creature with our reliance on labour saving devices and supermarket food. Apparently though, we are as a race getting larger and stronger again. I wonder what the reason for this could be? I used to live in part of an old castle. The doors were about 18" too low for me to walk through. This shows how much we have changed over the last few hundred years. Best regards David Callaghan PS Lee - could you put who the original message was from at the top of your posts so we can follow the thread. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland [snip] >Man is the weakest and most defenseless of creatures. Just camp out on the >Serengeti or stroll the Alaskan wilds (without firearms of weapons). > >A baboon is strong and has fangs, a chimp is strong has fangs and can climb >trees rapidly. > >Man is prey, less challenging to a lion or bear than a gazelle. > >It had to take a long time before man learned to use fire, sticks and the >jawbone of a zebra as a weapon. I doubt if he could have survived on his on >all that time. > >something wrong with evolution and natural selection. Don't know where you >got that from my remarks. [snip] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 06:26:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20358; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:25:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:25:06 -0700 Message-ID: <35F52F0E.5C127309@harti.com> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 15:20:14 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Stuart Rae , newman-list Subject: Re: flaws in Ohms Law support Newman technology ! References: <013a01bdd8ba$e19077a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> <35F17197.5B43@tiac.net> <35F5A47D.CCF@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tNroM.0.rz4.n0Jzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6163 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > > Oh sure, I know what you'r going to say. But it takes longer to form the > magnetic field, which means you have to put MORE 'energy' into it to begin > with ...i.e. power over time, and that's all you'll get out of it again at > the end of the day......Right? > > Ok, if an electrical current 'IS' the movement of charge carriers as > conceived in Ohm's Law, it would make much more sense if we were to use as > few of them as possible to achieve our electrical ends. In other words, why > transfer so many charge carriers over such a long time to achieve the energy > of a particular inductor's magnetic field strength. > > The conventional answer is "because the inductor is forced to by its inherent > time constant which is calculated in seconds simply as L/R, being that time > required to reach 63% of its final value. And it takes about 5 time constants > to reach 99% of the applied value. Correct? > > Not really. What happens if you initially apply a very much higher > voltage to the inductor than is necessary to reach the electrical current > value you require. The time constant is still the same, but the time it takes > to reach that value is very MUCH shorter. In other words, the front of your > current curve is now extremely steep. That is exactly what Newman does in his motors. He cranks up the input voltage to reach the L/R value much faster ! > > > > > But if L/R remains constant the current decay occurs over a much LONGER time > period, which means that a GREATER number of charge carriers are moved around > your circuit, than were in fact required to establish the initial energy of > the magnetic field in the first place. Even better in Newman motors you have a dL/dt component, so the time constant changes during the decay phase ! > > > > > Yes I know what you'r going to say! The energy input and output are still > exactly the same. Yes of course they are, I agree..... and it's because of > the different VOLTAGE involved. NOT the movement of charge as an electrical > 'current', as is defined in Ohm's Law. With introducing dL/dt the output/input energy can be different, if you design the coil and magnet parameters right ! > > > > > In other words, one energy was achieved largely without any movement of > charge carriers over time, and the subsequently released energy moved a whole > lot more of them over time. So tell me again about the concept of an > electrical 'current' in Ohm's Law as it relates to 'energy'. > > That is why, when Newman uses batteries, the batteries last very long. The actual charge being drawn from them is minimal due to the L/R delay increase and batteries work on charge depletion, rather than total delivered energy ! Also a Newman motor recharges the batteries when the commutator reverses the current at the 180 degrees position via the "back pulse". Regards, Stefan. > > > > Regards, > > Stuart > -- > ============================= > S. N. Rae, > Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. > mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 06:27:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20330; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:25:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:25:04 -0700 Message-ID: <35F524E4.9481FF8F@harti.com> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 14:36:53 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dave dameron , freenrg-l , newman-list , "HLafonte@aol.com" , Jean Louis Naudin , "mrandall@earthlink.net" , "mrand910@yahoo.com" , "W.D. Bauer" , Dieter Bauer Subject: Re: Magnetic energy, is here is the trick to get OU!? References: <199809080518.WAA22999@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bCKv53.0.Rz4.l0Jzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6162 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: dave dameron wrote: > Hi Stefan, > At 07:39 PM 9/7/98 +0200, Stefan wrote: > > > >Keasy@aol.com wrote: > > > >> In a message dated 9/6/98 9:51:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > >> ddameron@earthlink.net writes: > >> > >> << > >> To understand where the energy might come from, here is another experiment: > >> Construct an electromagnet with a core with a gap. A fixed number of > >> amp-turns is supplied to the core. Now a piece of steel is placed in the > >> gap, filling it up partially. The current from the power supply will drop > >> then go back to the V/R value. The magnetic energy has increased, as L has > >> in 0.5*L*I^2. (It is easy to show that the steady state power is going all > >> to heat, the V/R current) > >> > > > >Okay, here we have won 2 energies > >1. in form of making L bigger and this storing more magnetic energy inside the > >coil > >and > >2. kinetic energy from the attraction of the piece of steel ! > > > >> > >> But with an electromagnet the theory appears to be a little more > >> straightforward. With FIXED amp-turms the current by definition does not > >> change when a piece of steel is placed in the gap. But the B field increases > >> creating a counter emf to the voltage which is supplying the constant > current. > > > >Now here is the real effect which could be used to get OU ! > > > >You have won the 2 energies above and at the SAME TIME DECREASED > >the input energy ! > > Yes, the TOTAL energy has decreased but the input energy supplied to the > magnetic field has Increased! Are you sure about this ? Can´t it be that just the moving iron steel piece is just only increasing the magnetic field energy via 0.5 x L x I^2 in using the dL/dt component ? So now you have a higher magnetic field energy 0.5x Lx I^2, but this does not come from the power source, but from the moving steel ! Try it this way: power up a coil and a parallel load resistor so all has a constant DC current and a buildup magnetic field energy 0.5x Lx I^2 and then switch off the power supply ! Now the stored magnetic field energy 0.5x Lx I^2 will be discharged via the exponential decreasing current inside the parallel load resistor. Then let the steel begin to move into the gap. What will happen ? As there is no power source anymore connected, the steel increases the L and thus the current will not go down as fast as it would have otherwise, if the steel would not have moved into the gap ! I guess, this experimet would really show, that the stored magnetic energy inside the coil 0.5x Lx I^2 was smaller, than the total energies dissipated, when the steel has moved into the gap and still the steel has won kinetic energy ! A simular experiment using a capacitor would be: Charge up a capacitor to have a voltage and energy of W= 0.5 x C x V^2 . Disconnect it from the power source. Now let a dielectricum be pulled in between the plates of the cap, while discharging the cap into a resistive load. Now the total stored energy of W= 0.5 x C x V^2 is transferred to the resistive load and we have won the kinetic energy of the moving dielectricum as the free energy component. Now conventional physics teaches, that W= 0.5 x C x V^2 is divided up into the kinetic energy of the dielectricum and the other part goes into the resistor load, but I believe, that this is not true ! At least not, when the cap is discharged via a load at the same time as the dielectricum is moving and is pulled in ! I guess, that this is also the main effect on which the Methernitha Testatika device is based upon ! I bet, only the experiment can proove this ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 06:34:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24367; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:32:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:32:11 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:33:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Chicken eggs To: David Callaghan cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <024301bddb19$2ed94c20$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"siWpV2.0.Wy5.R7Jzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6164 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, David Callaghan wrote: > Hi Jim and All > > I will take into account ideas mentioned by all and ask my friend to perform > the experiments. He shouldn't have a problem, after all - it won't cost him > anything. > > Can someone tell me how to identify Mica? > > Thanks for the interest. > > Best regards > > David Callaghan > DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk > Hi David, Mica is a transparent or translucent mineral that grows in thin sheets or layers. In very small pieces on the ground it looks almost like tiny pieces of glass. It sparkles in sunlight on the surface of the ground. Mica contains magnesium and silicon. Louis Kervran noted in his book that all the biological transmutations observed involved either a hydrogen, oxygen or carbon atom. The transmutation of mica to calcium could involve magnesium interacting with oxygen, or silicon interacting with carbon. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 06:43:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA28546; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:41:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:41:26 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:42:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980908032228.00b3cbd0@rockisland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SrOWZ2.0.vz6.4GJzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6165 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Lee Markland wrote: > At 12:25 AM 9/8/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > >True, the world would have to completely change if this technology were made > >available and I can see where its release may not be the best thing, does > >not mean research is not going on however. If and when the process is > >available who do you think will decide who gets to live, does the laws of > >natural selection begin to break down in that kind of system? > Are you positive there really is such a thing as a law of natural selection? > > You know me, I don't cotton much to laws. If natural selection were indeed > a law, there would be no homo sapiens, nor you and I, if there were. > Here's a thought to consider. This was pointed out by Ilya Prigogine in one of his books. The theory of evolution or natural seletion is in direct opposition to the second law of thermodynamics. The system is tending toward more ORDER, not toward more CHAOS. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 07:07:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03393; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:05:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:05:24 -0700 Message-ID: <003401bddb31$a532eb20$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Cell Death Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:04:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"6ORXW3.0.lq.ZcJzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6166 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All I agree with Thomas. Stress does more damage than you think. Thinking that you are completely healthy is probably as good as anything if placebo trials are to be believed. Also, what we need to keep us alive is also what kills us. A rather neat trick from Mother Nature. The more energy we convert the quicker we die. A minimal but varied diet, low to moderate activity and lower oxygen levels would be a good start. Oxygen is poisonous. Excess oxygen in the blood creates oxidation outside the energy conversion needs. There are some monks that live somewhere in the mountains (low oxygen), eat small but varied meals, do moderate exercise and meditate/pray. Not a very stressful existence. Their average life expectancy is above 100! This leads me to the old adage 'Everything in moderation' Personally I don't give two hoots. We have already 'repaired' damaged brain tissue, regrown organs etc. By the time my body starts failing, I'll just go and get a new one made; probably from the 'Body Shop' :-) Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Spellman >>I don't think now is the time to have a world of immortals, but one day >>hopefully we will achieve the social intelligence to deserve that. >>What do you think are the most direct things people can do today to preserve >>health? > >Meditation is one. > >Thomas Spellman >lightspring@jps.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 09:19:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14355; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:04:18 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199809081604.SAA25748@imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin@mail.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Re: Chicken eggs Resent-Message-ID: <"EUkxg3.0.DW3.1XLzr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6167 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi David, Zack, Steve.. & all A few quotations from the 2nd book (French edition, 1966) by Louis Kervran on biological transmutations (my translation) : "Mica contains potassium silicate. So chicken would seem to produce the reaction : potassium + hydrogen = calcium." Later in the book, after presenting other transmutation occurences, in geology, micro-organisms, etc "Nature has 3 ways to obtain calcium by transmutation : potassium + hydrogen, magnesium + oxygen, silicium + carbone." Details about the chicken egg experiments : "In a poultry, on a soil made of clay, chicken were left without "calcaire" (chalk materials). After a few days, they laid eggs with soft shells. Then we brought them pure analyzed mica (from a minerals supplier). Those chicken, raised in a closed poultry, bought as 1-day old chicks, had never seen mica. They ate it voraciously. (...). The next day, we had eggs with normal shells. Elsewhere, another experiment was done for 40 days. As soon as mica was suppressed, the next day there were soft shells - because potassium is not stocked, it is formed and eliminated rapidly." Hope this helps --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 11:12:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA30698; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:08:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:08:01 -0700 From: "Pete Art" To: Subject: RE: Back to Basics/TVQ Lives Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:11:20 +0200 Message-ID: <000001bddb54$14bfeca0$180d6dc2@marvin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <35F48F6E.E18@tiac.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"dcO2m1.0.uU7.-9Nzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6168 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > There are plans on Bill Beaty's Weird Science web page that detail the > construction of a working Scalar (non Hertzian wave) detector, and test > pulse generator. There is also a construction article on a device > called an Electrostatic Gradiometer. > > The detectors and gradiometers are used in alternative science > investigations, and even investigations of 'paranormal' phenomena where > they give consistant data according to their users. > > In the scalar detector article, a series of modifications are discussed > where the device will produce a very small, but constant power output, > enough to drive a very modest load, with no power input. > > In addition, I have discussed the technical details of this and related > technologies openly on freenrg-l for several years now, and also > responded to countless private posts and questions. > > I've made materials for my deigns available to interested builders and > helped get their devices up and running. > > Several sucessfuly builders are on this list now. (Ahem, guys?) Right Bob, Personally I've build these gadgets and they are a nice starting-point for those who want to do some serious scalar-research!! Jerry---> get a life........... Pete -------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 11:21:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02854; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:18:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:18:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199809081820.PAA06897@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:42:15 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Magnetic energy, is here is the trick to get OU!? Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <35F524E4.9481FF8F@harti.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"eBs201.0.Li.8KNzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6169 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > I guess, this experimet would really show, that the stored magnetic energy > inside the coil 0.5x Lx I^2 was smaller, than the total energies dissipated, > when the steel has moved into the gap and still the steel has won kinetic > energy ! > This is remembering the Osamu Ide paper : - Increased voltage phenomenon in a resonance circuit of unconventional magnetic configuration. --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 11:21:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02933; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:18:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:18:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199809081820.PAA06890@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:17:10 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: flaws in Ohms Law support Newman technology ! Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <35F52F0E.5C127309@harti.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"8VNsb1.0.hj.HKNzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6170 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > > The conventional answer is "because the inductor is forced to by its inherent > > time constant which is calculated in seconds simply as L/R, being that time > > required to reach 63% of its final value. And it takes about 5 time constants > > to reach 99% of the applied value. Correct? > > > > Not really. What happens if you initially apply a very much higher > > voltage to the inductor than is necessary to reach the electrical current > > value you require. The time constant is still the same, but the time it takes > > to reach that value is very MUCH shorter. In other words, the front of your > > current curve is now extremely steep. > > That is exactly what Newman does in his motors. > He cranks up the input voltage to reach the L/R value much faster ! > It seems to me the same effect as if you feed the coil with a Current Source instead of a Voltage Source. > > > > But if L/R remains constant the current decay occurs over a much LONGER time > > period, which means that a GREATER number of charge carriers are moved around > > your circuit, than were in fact required to establish the initial energy of > > the magnetic field in the first place. > > Even better in Newman motors you have a dL/dt component, so the time constant > changes during the decay phase ! > > > > > > > Yes I know what you'r going to say! The energy input and output are still > > exactly the same. Yes of course they are, I agree..... and it's because of > > the different VOLTAGE involved. NOT the movement of charge as an electrical > > 'current', as is defined in Ohm's Law. > > With introducing dL/dt the output/input energy can be different, if you design > the coil and magnet parameters right ! > The same concept could be applied to the old Tesla Switch circuit. Introduce a dL/dt factor in series with the battery and you could have more energy flowing TO the battery. Anyone with a good SPICE knowledge there ? It would be a simple task. > > > > In other words, one energy was achieved largely without any movement of > > charge carriers over time, and the subsequently released energy moved a whole > > lot more of them over time. So tell me again about the concept of an > > electrical 'current' in Ohm's Law as it relates to 'energy'. > > > > > > That is why, when Newman uses batteries, the batteries last very long. > The actual charge being drawn from them is minimal due to the L/R delay > increase and batteries work on charge depletion, rather than total delivered > energy ! > > Also a Newman motor recharges the batteries when the commutator > reverses the current at the 180 degrees position via the "back pulse". > This would be the first FREE-ENERGY BATTERY CHARGER ever made ... --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 12:02:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18321; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:55:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:55:35 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:56:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809081856.LAA26201@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: leoguitar@vossnet.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Magnetic energy, is here is the trick to get OU!? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA18299 Resent-Message-ID: <"AgvXq2.0.AU4.dsNzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6171 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan and all, At 02:36 PM 9/8/98 +0200, you wrote: ... >> >> But with an electromagnet the theory appears to be a little more >> >> straightforward. With FIXED amp-turms the current by definition does not >> >> change when a piece of steel is placed in the gap. But the B field increases >> >> creating a counter emf to the voltage which is supplying the constant >> current. >> > >> >Now here is the real effect which could be used to get OU ! >> > >> >You have won the 2 energies above and at the SAME TIME DECREASED >> >the input energy ! >> >> Yes, the TOTAL energy has decreased but the input energy supplied to the >> magnetic field has Increased! > >Are you sure about this ? > It has in my experiments of inserting an iron armature into a solenoid. The iron is pulled in, and the current drops from the battery. Look at the L/R charging, for example at 1 time constant. The current is 63% of the final value. Thus the battery is supplying only 63% of its final power. Of this 63%, only 63% is used by the R. (P =I^2*R). Thus 37% of the battery's power is going into the inductor, i.e. magnetic field. I believe this is true also for the case for the dL/dt, any case where the current DROPS as the difference of the 2 powers (Battery-resistor) show. >Can´t it be that just the moving iron steel piece is just only increasing the >magnetic field >energy via 0.5 x L x I^2 in using the dL/dt component ? Yes it is doing this too. If a permanent magnet is used, it is interesting, too. > >So now you have a higher magnetic field energy 0.5x Lx I^2, but this does not come >from the >power source, but from the moving steel ! > >Try it this way: power up a coil and a parallel load resistor so all has a constant >DC current and a buildup magnetic field energy 0.5x Lx I^2 and then switch off the >power supply ! > >Now the stored magnetic field energy 0.5x Lx I^2 will be discharged via the >exponential >decreasing current inside the parallel load resistor. > >Then let the steel begin to move into the gap. > >What will happen ? >As there is no power source anymore connected, the steel increases the L and thus >the >current will not go down as fast as it would have otherwise, if the steel would >not have moved into the gap ! I think the current will fall faster. As best as I can measure, it does. It's hard to time the actions. (disconnect the supply, release the steel, watch an oscilloscope display) Has anyone been able to do this experiment? > >I guess, this experimet would really show, that the stored magnetic energy inside >the coil >0.5x Lx I^2 was smaller, than the total energies dissipated, when the steel has >moved into the gap >and still the steel has won kinetic energy ! Yes, the steel's kinetic energy comes from the magnetic energy. > >A simular experiment using a capacitor would be: > >Charge up a capacitor to have a voltage and energy of W= 0.5 x C x V^2 . >Disconnect it from the power source. >Now let a dielectricum be pulled in between the plates of the cap, while discharging >the >cap into a resistive load. >Now the total stored energy of W= 0.5 x C x V^2 is transferred to the resistive >load >and we have won the kinetic energy of the moving dielectricum as the free energy >component. > >Now conventional physics teaches, that W= 0.5 x C x V^2 is divided up into the >kinetic energy of the dielectricum and the other part goes into the resistor load, >but I believe, that this is not true ! At least not, when the cap is discharged via >a load at the same >time as the dielectricum is moving and is pulled in ! I think the capacitor case is easier to demonstrate! (They are more "ideal") Charge a capacitor with air dielectric to a voltage V. The charge transferred to/from the plates is Q=C*V. Now disconnect the power supply so Q is fixed. Now slide a dielectric plate with a dielectric constant of 2 into the capacitor. Force will pull the plate in, agreed? But now the capacitance is 2X what it was. The Voltage is only 1/2 (V=Q/C) The capacitor energy is only 50% of what it was! Where did the other 50% go? To the kinetic energy of the dielectric plate. This seems better than just connecting another discharged capacitor in parallel, where the 50% is lost to heat, radiation, etc. This seems the analog of the permanent magnet and the inserted steel. If, however, the power supply is left connected, it will supply more current to keep the capacitor at a voltage V. The capacitor energy now is 2X, not 50%. The force on the dielectric plate will be stronger too. This might be closer to the electromagnet and the inserted steel as there is a source of added energy? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 13:34:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18756; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:31:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:31:22 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909003432.00b42350@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 00:34:32 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <199809080518.WAA23062@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Oxxv11.0.sa4.PGPzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6172 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks: But if you look in outdoor survival books or Old Boy Scout handbooks I think that you'll find that a way to make a compass is to rub a needle with a silk scarf. That's where I got the idea in the first place. Lee At 10:18 PM 9/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Lee, >At 07:21 AM 9/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Then why can I use it as a compass when I do that? > >Maybe it is already magnetic? You could do some simple tests that would >affect the charge and see if they affect your compass results. For example, >connect it to: a + terminal of a HV power supply, to the - terminal, to a >grounded metal pipe, etc. Hey, bury it or just hold it in your hand. Then >you could do other tests to change its magnetic properties and see what >effect they cause. >> >>>Well, forget the electrons cause the magnetic field thing, thats a >>>description of>an electrostatic charge, where you rub something with silk >>and charge it >>>so it will attract small, non-iron objects. A glass rod and silk make a >>>good example of this. >> >-Dave > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 13:34:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18772; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:31:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:31:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909003414.00b48840@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 00:34:14 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses In-Reply-To: <80b589a5.35f4c7de@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"NX61f2.0.Bb4.QGPzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6173 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:59 AM 9/8/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-09-07 21:01:52 EDT, you write: > ><< > Heard some stuff about monoatomic elements and longevity - David Hudson I > think his name is. Supposedly he sells "powdered gold" or something like > that, suppose to do wonders. > >> > >Yes it regenerate the DNA. Wow, I have a very good friend that is quite into the stuff, but I always discounted it as a hoax or b.s. do you know of anything subtantiative along that line. Supposedly we have a death gene or something like that, that clicks in and starts shutting down our system. I know why we get osteoporosis as we get older? For the same reason we lose bone mass in our jaws if we get our teeth pulled and the reason that astronauts lose bone mass in space. Reduced stress on our bones. Astronauts compensate by exercise. Usually though when we get older, we wear down, become less active, sedentiary, stress our bones, less and less, soft tissue atrophies. The more stress on bones by the muscles and tendons the healthier and thicker the bone mass. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 13:35:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18967; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:31:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:31:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909020633.00b426c0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 02:06:33 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Moderation In-Reply-To: <024401bddb19$2fed7b40$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6jNj32.0.Ce4.fGPzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6176 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sounds good to me. Does that mean that we can discuss stuff without constant recourse back to "laws" and "conventional physics" and perhaps suspend belief in same in consideration of the possibility that said "laws" and "theories" have gaps, laws and problems - not all mind you, but some. For instance: Newton was right with the inverse square law, but metaphysical with mass gravity. Don't know anyone who was 100% right or wrong. Aristotle was wrong in most things physical, but I think he was correct when he postualted that a current force requires a physical process. If not then we have leaped into the metaphysicsal. In other words can a discussion be had without someone quoting the Bible? Peace Lee At 12:09 PM 9/8/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee, Bob and All > >In the absence of any moderation so far by Bill B, I have performed a 'post >mortem' of all the posts that have been made over the last month. > >The following points are my opinion only and ignore posts made by Jerry W >Decker, which I don't think any of us can or should comment on. > >* We have to remember that the written word is interpreted differently than >when we are speaking face to face with people. There are no facial >expressions or body language to infer meaning. That's why we have the >smiley faces etc to alter context. > >* Initially, both Lee and Bob did not understand where each other were >'coming from'. (Personally, I did not understand where Lee was coming >from initially) > >* Lee was after definitive proof. > >* Bob (and I) offered 'the current best' explanations to questions asked by >Lee > >* This led to an exchange between Lee and Bob, escalating with each post. > >* Each then both made posts with hints of 'peace offering'. > >* Each then became more and more defensive (not good) > >Seems pretty much like a standard 'personality clash' to me, with each >slightly mis-interpreting the context of dialog. As soon as you become >defensive, personal and intellectual insults chalk up another mark. > >Not wishing to see any of you leave or be barred from the list, how about >you both agree that you got off to a bad start, and agree to reconcile your >differences and give each other a fresh start. I think if both of you met >initially face to face you would be a lot more friendly now. > >We have nearly got to this stage before, with some people making RTFM posts >to questions about basic physics. This is natural, human behaviour, which >we are all guilty of to some extent. None of us like to be wrong, and most >of us like to help others, and also compete (again natural). In the absence >of physically competing for dominance, the battle has become intellectual. >We must all learn to combat these sub-conscious urges to compete as they >only cloud our judgement. Has anyone ever watched a game show and not said >'Fancy not knowing the answer to that!!' (or similar)? > >I admit to making posts myself, which in retrospect, seem to be very >sarcastic. I now recheck everything I type to make sure it couldn't be >construed as insulting. Its very easy to do with written words. It's >amazing how a little smiley face alters context. > >*How about it guys?* Restore my faith in the triumph of human reasoning. > >Best regards > >David Callaghan >DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk > > >PS... Next case M'Lud > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 13:35:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18857; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:31:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:31:30 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909014606.00b409b0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 01:46:06 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980907070645.009c6420@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"R-0wE2.0.Fc4.XGPzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6174 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:57 AM 9/8/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Lee Markland wrote: > > If one conceptualizes a magnet as an overcharged object, then electrons are > being forced out one end and in another - flow. >-------------------?? >What if one conceptualizes a magnets force (instead of flow) as a Force(d) >BALANCE? Exspandable in All directions as a rubber-band? Not Overcharged, >just there, waiting to be 'stretched'! ?? Your ..'Forced' out of one end >into the other ... opens ~old questions of course~. FORCED/Powered >demands from where & what/how?????? > I understand and the poor choice in words takes me someplace I don't want to go. Let's put it this way. If an object is overcharged (a bottle overfilled) the excess is forced out. In the case of the magnet, when the excess electrons are "forced" out they are recaptured by the field, travel along the field on its periphery and are attracted in the other side. That is what appears to be happening when I hold a magnet under paper and sprinkle metal filings on the top. Also look at static cling. The process of rubbing and the heat strip electrons off the material, it now has a deficit of electrons and clings to itself. When you drop that material on the floor the deficit is made up and the electrons from ground leap through space with a snap, crackle and a spark and equilibrium is restored. >steve (yes, magnets (THEY) WORK & I love 'EM!:) ekwall Me too. And force being applied is still work or force, even if nothing is moving. Push against a car with the parking brake set, then have someone release the brake. >WHERE is the work? >Thanks.. >happy labor days (belated:}) Thanks Lee :) > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 13:37:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18890; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:31:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:31:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909015617.00b45100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 01:56:17 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Chicken Eggs (Maybe not so off topic) In-Reply-To: <006e01bddb08$c5098a40$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"W5pve1.0.sc4.ZGPzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6175 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:52 AM 9/8/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee and All > >Lots of food contains calcium. If you are eating food without calcium, your >body will first use calcium from your teeth, usually starting at the back >with the molar's. Pregnant malnourished women in third world countries >often loose their teeth. Any dentist's out there? > >After that I think it extracted from the largest bones in the body, making >them weaker. Many elderly people (in the UK at least) have had diets >without enough calcium for the vast majority of their lives. Do they lose their teeth as well? My mother was very poor (depression) when she carried me and for want of diet she lost two teeth, so I know what you are saying is true. I robbed calcium from her. Question though, without a parasite (foetus), does the body also lose calcium, or is stuff like osteoporosis the result of lack of exercise and stress on the bone. Wonder what the incident rate of osteoporsis is, in lesser developed countries where peoples lives aren't so sedentiary. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 13:52:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22914; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909013857.00b42bb0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 01:38:57 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses In-Reply-To: <057901bddaf2$6a4528a0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6m1NM.0.xb5.tOPzr"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6177 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:29 AM 9/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >Do you have info or links? > >> Heard some stuff about monoatomic elements and longevity - David Hudson I >> think his name is. Supposedly he sells "powdered gold" or something like >> that, suppose to do wonders. >> >> >> >>Yes it regenerate the DNA. Well the only thing I have is a link to a friends webpage. Neil Freer, he has authored a book Breaking the Godspell, and is either in contact with or knows how to access Dave Hudson. Try: http://www.concentric.net/~freer1 Freer is totally cool, an Ex-Trappist Monk, now married and an "agnositic" or whatever you call one who doesn't believe in YVHV and IeZeus. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 14:37:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15185; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:35:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:35:07 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:37:17 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: INE (Advanced Energy & Anti-Grav) Website Has Today Been Updated! Resent-Message-ID: <"3VdEW1.0.8j3.ACQzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6178 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ Most New Data Files are at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/index.shtml#INE_RECENT All new revisions are in the file: http://www.padrak.com/ine/REVISIONS.html ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Sep. 8, 1998 Added: From the INE 1998 Symposium Report on the INE 1998 Symposium INE Symposium 1998 Papers and Abstracts Added: NEN TOC Vol. 6, No. 4, August 1998 Welcome: Institute For New Energy, By Hal Fox and FIC Welcome To The 1998 INE Symposium, By Patrick Bailey Latest Word On Cold Fusion, By Edmund Storms Transmutation Of Toxic Isotopes Deep Geologic Disposal: With Translations of DOE-Speak Radioactive Waste Solution Waste Management Or Cost Waste Latest From Future Technology Intelligence Report There Is An Aether March For Peaceful Energy 1998 Motion: An Ancient Mystery Solved? (On Johann Bessler) Dis-Information in the New Energy Field: Specifically on the Swiss M-L Converter (Testatika) Added: Michael Faraday on the Structure of the Aether, and the Nature of Action-At-A-Distance Microscopic Pictures of the Reverse Side of the Ti Anode of Ni/Plastic Run #8 (from Edward Lewis) Updated: Announcements of Meetings People and Organizations Subjects and Authors Websites Site Counter = 272,058 Aug. 19, 1998 Updated: PACE Organization Description Websites Main Website Page (PACE Data) Happy Birthday to all you other Leos! Site Counter = 265,644 Aug. 3, 1998 Added: The Classical Vacuum [Zero-Point Energy] Scientific American Article, Aug. 1985 Updated: Exploiting Zero-Point Energy Scientific American Article, Dec. 1997 Announcements of Meetings Commercial Sources Information Sources Subjects and Authors Websites Awards Given To The INE Website Site Counter = 259,808 Jul. 31, 1998 Updated: The INE Database Files 128 Device Database Files, plus The 4 Summary Listing Files: By Device Name By Inventor Name By Interest Criteria By Commercialization Criteria Site Counter = 258,799 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 15:38:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13036; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:35:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:35:57 -0700 Message-ID: <35F5D987.425C@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 18:27:35 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Zack Widup CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The trouble with science is.... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OJsBI2.0.cB3.B5Rzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6179 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zack Widup wrote: > I have also known several people who could walk into a room and have > working equipment start to malfunction. On the reverse side, I have > known a few people who could walk into a room and have broken equipment > "repair" itself simply by their presence; it would fail again when they > left. I agree that this does indeed happen. In the testing lab at work, we 'know' which test engineers are best able to 'break' new designs, not that they execute their test plan any differently than the rest of the testers. > So what am I getting at? Well, maybe, just MAYBE, this enters into the > free energy arena as well. Maybe the devices DON'T work for everyone. > Maybe there is some special quality that Nikola Tesla, T. Henry Moray, > Hendershot, John Bedini, etc. have (or had) that most people don't. I'm > not saying this is a fact; I'm just asking you to consider the > possibility. It could explain why no one has yet duplicated their > reportedly working devices. Just like the Hutchincon effect, the observer may have more to do with the operation than the device itself. > Of course, I keep hoping I or someone else can come up with a real O/U/O > device that can be mass-produced. So don't give up! > > Zack Zack, I recall that you made a working Barkhausen effect detector, and in fact observed apparently similar 'transmissions' as others have. My accomplishments to date have been questioned, so if you would, could you relate your experiances with the detector for the list readers? Have you attempted making the battery version of that design yet? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 15:41:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13385; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:37:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:37:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199809082235.SAA00898@surfergirl.spacey.net> Reply-To: From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Re: Cell Death Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:31:36 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BEV_-.0.2H3.E6Rzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6180 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > I agree with Thomas. Stress does more damage than you think. Thinking that > you are completely healthy is probably as good as anything if placebo trials > are to be believed. > > Also, what we need to keep us alive is also what kills us. A rather neat > trick from Mother Nature. The more energy we convert the quicker we die. A > minimal but varied diet, low to moderate activity and lower oxygen levels > would be a good start. Oxygen is poisonous. Excess oxygen in the blood > creates oxidation outside the energy conversion needs. > > There are some monks that live somewhere in the mountains (low oxygen), eat > small but varied meals, do moderate exercise and meditate/pray. Not a very > stressful existence. Their average life expectancy is above 100! I think this is hogwash. Life, and the life of the civilization as a whole, is *NOT* improved by 'conserving' anything. Whether referring to personal caloric intake and energy expenditure, or that of the entire society, the only thing that works is to INCREASE productive OUTPUT, and, therefore, the ability of the organism to *process* raw more resources into greater practical output. Just like the athlete who consumes 10 kilocalories per day, yet does not gain weight due to his aggregate work output, society in general has the opportunity to escalate its 'level of effort' to a new threshhold of luxurious output. I believe that a quality high protein (high animal meat) diet is the only thing (save the intervention of 'visitors') that advanced the higher brain functions of our ancestors beyond those of the vegetarian apes (and lesser animals not physiologically equipped to metabolize meat protein into the more complex neuropeptides) and resulted in sentient civilization. You owe *all* of what you see around you to the amino acids digested and processed by your forebears into their thoughts and emotions. Its a simple biochemical trail, and is absolutely irrefutable. Anyone who From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 16:04:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20331; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:53:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:53:12 -0700 Message-ID: <35F5DD90.26B9@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 18:44:48 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics/TVQ Lives References: <054301bddaf0$458b3880$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eUkFV2.0.Sz4.LLRzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6181 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Wallace wrote: > > >There are plans on Bill Beaty's Weird Science web page that detail the > >construction of a working Scalar (non Hertzian wave) detector, > > What are its best uses? The Barkhausen Effect Scalar detector is best used in detecting magnetic-sum-zero scalar signals below 500 Khz or so, depending on coil inductance, core material, and oddly enough, the magnetic bias used. > and test > >pulse generator. > > And its best uses? Well, sending controlled signals to the detector, say, through three feet of well made Faraday cage for example. > There is also a construction article on a device > >called an Electrostatic Gradiometer. > > Could it be used to test people for higher static electrical charge? Yes. It can also allow the 'unskilled' to 'dowse' for 'ley lines' using an objective instrument rather than a subjective one (wands, etc.). > >In the scalar detector article, a series of modifications are discussed > >where the device will produce a very small, but constant power output, > >enough to drive a very modest load, with no power input. > > Where is it getting this energy from? It appears to be from the quantum vaccum flux, or ZPE s some describe it. > >Well, I've been given the idea that criticism is often less then > >welcome. > > History proves criticism is necessary to break dogmatic ideals. Excellent point, thankyou. This is all too true. > Criticize everyone, even the ones doing the criticism. In the end only the > truth will remain. At this point, I've sought legal advice on the matter. It seems to be a clear case of Libel, so I already know my final recourse in this matter. I shall persue this matter to my personal satisfaction. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 16:24:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA31070; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:22:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:22:06 -0700 Message-ID: <35F5A24B.7E8087CE@harti.com> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 23:31:56 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dave dameron , freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: Re: Magnetic energy, is here is the trick to get OU!? References: <199809081856.LAA26201@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wcdox1.0.Fb7.TmRzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6182 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > > >> >Now here is the real effect which could be used to get OU ! > >> > > >> >You have won the 2 energies above and at the SAME TIME DECREASED > >> >the input energy ! > >> > >> Yes, the TOTAL energy has decreased but the input energy supplied to the > >> magnetic field has Increased! > > > >Are you sure about this ? > > > It has in my experiments of inserting an iron armature into a solenoid. > The iron is pulled in, and the current drops from the battery. Yes, that is what I also expected ! > > > > > Look at the L/R charging, for example at 1 time constant. The current is 63% > of the final value. Thus the battery is supplying only 63% of its final power. > Of this 63%, only 63% is used by the R. (P =I^2*R). Thus 37% of the > battery's power is going into the inductor, i.e. magnetic field. > I believe this is true also for the case for the dL/dt, any case where the > current DROPS as the difference of the 2 powers (Battery-resistor) show. Yes, it splits the power going into the L and R parts with this procentage. But the real effect is: The system wins energy via increasing L and kinectic movement, but at the same time the input energy goes to zero (if it is designed right..) > > > > > >Can´t it be that just the moving iron steel piece is just only increasing the > >magnetic field > >energy via 0.5 x L x I^2 in using the dL/dt component ? > > Yes it is doing this too. If a permanent magnet is used, it is interesting, too. Yes, but then you have to use an air core coil, so the magnet can move on with increased kinetic energy.... > > > > > > > >So now you have a higher magnetic field energy 0.5x Lx I^2, but this does > not come > >from the > >power source, but from the moving steel ! > > > >Try it this way: power up a coil and a parallel load resistor so all has a > constant > >DC current and a buildup magnetic field energy 0.5x Lx I^2 and then switch > off the > >power supply ! > > > >Now the stored magnetic field energy 0.5x Lx I^2 will be discharged via the > >exponential > >decreasing current inside the parallel load resistor. > > > >Then let the steel begin to move into the gap. > > > >What will happen ? > >As there is no power source anymore connected, the steel increases the L > and thus > >the > >current will not go down as fast as it would have otherwise, if the steel would > >not have moved into the gap ! > > I think the current will fall faster. As best as I can measure, it does. > It's hard to time the actions. (disconnect the supply, release the steel, > watch an oscilloscope display) Has anyone been able to do this experiment? This would be the most exiting experiment, because it could prove, if OU is possible in this configuration. When the coil has the stored energy 0.5x Lx I^2 before the experiment and you let the steel piece go, will the total system energies dissipated in the resistances of coil resistance and load resistance and steel kinetic energy be higher than 0.5x Lx I^2 ? > > > > > > >I guess, this experimet would really show, that the stored magnetic energy > inside > >the coil > >0.5x Lx I^2 was smaller, than the total energies dissipated, when the steel has > >moved into the gap > >and still the steel has won kinetic energy ! > > Yes, the steel's kinetic energy comes from the magnetic energy. Yes, but will the total system energies dissipated in the resistances of coil resistance and load resistance and steel kinetic energy be higher than 0.5x Lx I^2 ? > > > > > > >A simular experiment using a capacitor would be: > > > >Charge up a capacitor to have a voltage and energy of W= 0.5 x C x V^2 . > >Disconnect it from the power source. > >Now let a dielectricum be pulled in between the plates of the cap, while > discharging > >the > >cap into a resistive load. > >Now the total stored energy of W= 0.5 x C x V^2 is transferred to the > resistive > >load > >and we have won the kinetic energy of the moving dielectricum as the free > energy > >component. > > > >Now conventional physics teaches, that W= 0.5 x C x V^2 is divided up into the > >kinetic energy of the dielectricum and the other part goes into the > resistor load, > >but I believe, that this is not true ! At least not, when the cap is > discharged via > >a load at the same > >time as the dielectricum is moving and is pulled in ! > > I think the capacitor case is easier to demonstrate! (They are more "ideal") > Charge a capacitor with air dielectric to a voltage V. The charge > transferred to/from the plates is Q=C*V. Now disconnect the power supply so > Q is fixed. > Now slide a dielectric plate with a dielectric constant of 2 into the capacitor. > Force will pull the plate in, agreed? Sure ! > > > > But now the capacitance is 2X what it was. The Voltage is only 1/2 (V=Q/C) > The capacitor energy is only 50% of what it was! Where did the other 50% go? > To the kinetic energy of the dielectric plate. Well, I don´t want to let the cap stay unconnected ! It must be discharged while the dielectric plate is moving in ! Thus there will be more total output energy than the previous stored 0.5xCxV^2 ! > > > > This seems better than just connecting another discharged capacitor in > parallel, where the 50% is lost to heat, radiation, etc. > This seems the analog of the permanent magnet and the inserted steel. > > If, however, the power supply is left connected, it will supply more current > to keep the capacitor at a voltage V. The capacitor energy now is 2X, not > 50%. The force on the dielectric plate will be stronger too. This might be > closer to the electromagnet and the inserted steel as there is a source of > added energy? For this case: How much energy must be supplied in total from the power supply to the cap ? 2 x 0.5xCxV^2 ?? Or less ? This is the main question for an experiment to prove it right or wrong... > > > > > -Dave > Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 16:25:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA31353; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:22:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:22:28 -0700 Message-ID: <35F5E471.D35@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 19:14:09 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Moderation References: <024401bddb19$2fed7b40$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Yiv3l.0.pf7.pmRzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6183 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David Callaghan wrote: > > Hi Lee, Bob and All > > In the absence of any moderation so far by Bill B, I have performed a 'post > mortem' of all the posts that have been made over the last month. > > The following points are my opinion only and ignore posts made by Jerry W > Decker, which I don't think any of us can or should comment on. Ok David, I think I see where your going with this... > * We have to remember that the written word is interpreted differently than > when we are speaking face to face with people. There are no facial > expressions or body language to infer meaning. That's why we have the > smiley faces etc to alter context. > > * Initially, both Lee and Bob did not understand where each other were > 'coming from'. (Personally, I did not understand where Lee was coming > from initially) > > * Lee was after definitive proof. > > * Bob (and I) offered 'the current best' explanations to questions asked by > Lee > > * This led to an exchange between Lee and Bob, escalating with each post. > > * Each then both made posts with hints of 'peace offering'. > > * Each then became more and more defensive (not good) > > Seems pretty much like a standard 'personality clash' to me, with each > slightly mis-interpreting the context of dialog. As soon as you become > defensive, personal and intellectual insults chalk up another mark. I've looked back at many emails as well. If I have been insulting to Lee, than I apologise here and now. I hope however, that this is not, or was not the case. While I may strongly disagree with any given members ideas of philosophy, I read this list, and respond to it because I value the exchange of ideas, more-so if those ideas have an experimental basis in fact. I hope that at all times, my exchange with Lee, or any other member of this forum is taken in that light, rather than as a personally directed attack. > Not wishing to see any of you leave or be barred from the list, how about > you both agree that you got off to a bad start, and agree to reconcile your > differences and give each other a fresh start. I think if both of you met > initially face to face you would be a lot more friendly now. I beleive that, and hope that there is no outstanding issue between myself and Mr. Markland. I hope that as adults, we can at least agree to disagree. The situation between myself and Mr. Decker however is another matter. I have been subject to defamatory attacks from Jerry Decker / Keelynet. I am currently attempting to resolve this through moderation, but it seems that Jerry Decker is resolute in his position. He made his attacks and now refused to address his actions. Not only has Mr. Decker defamed me personally, but he has also done the same to a number of people I deeply respect. These people, and myself have no obligation to sit still for this behavior, expecially over a public forum. My leagal recourse is very clear in this case. > We have nearly got to this stage before, with some people making RTFM posts > to questions about basic physics. This is natural, human behaviour, which > we are all guilty of to some extent. None of us like to be wrong, and most > of us like to help others, and also compete (again natural). In the absence > of physically competing for dominance, the battle has become intellectual. > We must all learn to combat these sub-conscious urges to compete as they > only cloud our judgement. Has anyone ever watched a game show and not said > 'Fancy not knowing the answer to that!!' (or similar)? Understood, but I have taken no offense at anything (save the one-time misuse of language over the list) Lee has written, and I hope that Lee has no axe to grind with me at this point. Once again, I openly and publically apologise to Mr. Markland for any personal insult I may have made here. I feel I can disagree with an idea but still have respect for people. I hope this is the case anyway. But libel is another matter. > I admit to making posts myself, which in retrospect, seem to be very > sarcastic. I now recheck everything I type to make sure it couldn't be > construed as insulting. Its very easy to do with written words. It's > amazing how a little smiley face alters context. > > *How about it guys?* Restore my faith in the triumph of human reasoning. > > Best regards > > David Callaghan > DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk > > PS... Next case M'Lud Exactly! Experimental evidence belong here, the rest of the evidence belongs in court!!! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 16:44:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07885; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:42:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:42:21 -0700 Message-ID: <35F5E90F.2FDE@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 19:33:51 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics References: <3.0.5.32.19980907070645.009c6420@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980909014606.00b409b0@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sSh4P.0.3x1.S3Szr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6184 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > I understand and the poor choice in words takes me someplace I don't want > to go. > > Let's put it this way. If an object is overcharged (a bottle overfilled) > the excess is forced out. In the case of the magnet, when the excess > electrons are "forced" out they are recaptured by the field, travel along > the field on its periphery and are attracted in the other side. > > That is what appears to be happening when I hold a magnet under paper and > sprinkle metal filings on the top. A magnet does not have a surplus or excess of electrons. Materials with an excess of electrons are conductors, but some of the most powerful magnets made today are vrey good insulators, materials with a lack of excess electrons. What happens with the filings is the result of each small filing becomming a micro-magnet under the influance of the larger magnet. They then line up. May I (respectfully) ask why you see the action specifically of electrons here? > Also look at static cling. The process of rubbing and the heat strip > electrons off the material, it now has a deficit of electrons and clings to > itself. When you drop that material on the floor the deficit is made up and > the electrons from ground leap through space with a snap, crackle and a > spark and equilibrium is restored. Ahhh, but magnets dont 'spark' like that at all! This is one way to tell the action of electrons from the much less understood action of magnetic fields! If it were due to electrons, we could block a magnetic field with tin foil, as tin foil is a good electrostatic shield, but a poor magnetic shield. Electrons can move about easily. Current thinking is that the magnetisim of bulk materials (not single particles) comes mainly from the nucleus, and so it is rather harder to 'transfer' from material to material. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 16:52:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10110; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:46:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:46:20 -0700 Message-ID: <35F5EA02.68E9@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 19:37:54 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics References: <3.0.5.32.19980909003432.00b42350@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OcZ6G3.0.lT2.B7Szr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6185 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > Thanks: But if you look in outdoor survival books or Old Boy Scout > handbooks I think that you'll find that a way to make a compass is to rub a > needle with a silk scarf. That's where I got the idea in the first place. > > Lee Ok, I've found methods for making a compass with a needle by: Rubbing it with a magnet. Rubbing it with a piece of loadstone (natural magent). Laying it down facing North, then pounding on the south end with a rock! (it further claims that a 'soft iron nail is best, >200 firm blows should do...'!!! This was kinda new to me!) I've found nothing about using silk so far. Anyone have others? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 16:52:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12257; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:50:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:50:51 -0700 Message-ID: <35F5EB12.520@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 19:42:26 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Moderation References: <3.0.5.32.19980909020633.00b426c0@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5DB242.0.O_2.QBSzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6186 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > Sounds good to me. Does that mean that we can discuss stuff without > constant recourse back to "laws" and "conventional physics" and perhaps > suspend belief in same in consideration of the possibility that said "laws" > and "theories" have gaps, laws and problems - not all mind you, but some. We can, and do discuss many things here, but the list rules make a clear distinction between evidence and theory. If you attack a 'theory' that has a lot of accepted evidence, then you simply need to provide some clear evidence to support your position. But as far as discussion, ask a question here and you will probably get a few different answers to choose from. Is that a bad thing? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 16:57:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13889; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:54:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:54:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909041924.00b65380@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 04:19:24 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980908032228.00b3cbd0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"m1qTU3.0.dO3.mESzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6188 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:42 AM 9/8/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Here's a thought to consider. This was pointed out by Ilya Prigogine in >one of his books. > >The theory of evolution or natural seletion is in direct opposition to >the second law of thermodynamics. The system is tending toward more >ORDER, not toward more CHAOS. > >Zack I agree. Chaos theory exists only, IMO, because obersvation has not validated theory. Rather than revisit theory (Laws) Chaos has resulted and new constants constantly derived and inserted intothe previous formula to explain the "anomaly". Lots of Nobel Prizes that way for "hard scientists" that never get their finger nails dirty. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 16:59:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13871; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:54:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:54:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909040120.00b63d30@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 04:01:20 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Natural Selection In-Reply-To: <03ba01bddb2a$cd512b00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"si06F3.0.VO3.lESzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6187 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:15 PM 9/8/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee and All > >Chimps live in groups for protection. Chimps also defend themselves with >weapons such as rocks and sticks. My guess is that early humans were >bigger, stronger, and more intelligent than chimps. We also walked fairly >upright, making us appear to be larger than we actually are. Many >predators use apparent size as a basis on whether it is worth risking an >attack. For instance a domestic cat will nearly always choose to run rather >than fight an animal that appears to be larger than itself. Instances using >apparent size to deter predators are to be found throughout nature. Cats >stand their fur on end and arch their backs, there are frogs and fish that >inflate themselves with air etc etc. > >Early man (from studying skeletons) was much more powerful than we are >today. Guesses put our early strength on par or above that of gorilla's. >When we learned to use tools, the need to be powerful was not as great. If >you don't use it, you lose it. Wonderful. That fits precisely in with what I have been maintaining. That the Earth's gravitational field is a physical process which diminishes because of the Cooling Continuum and perhaps in the past there were in fact real floods (source the water from the moon and Mars) which dampened the gravitational field. Bone mass is a result of stress on the bone because of load. Dentists know this, so do the astronauts. Reduce gravitational stress and you decrease bone mass, increase gravitational stress and you increase bone mass. Dump massive amounts of water on the Earth as a result of the diminishing gravitational field of lesser sized bodies (say the moon and Mars) and you dampen the field, thicken the lithosphere) and reduce gravity. Such a flood could have caused the extinction of the dinosaur (thus the reason why bones are found in mudstone and shale), a subsequent flood could actually be that recorded in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Survivors would have temporarily found themselves possessing phenomenal strength, able to erect menhirs to commemorate the event. Subsequent descendanats would have been acclimated to a weakened gravitational field. Prediction: If we colonize Mars or the Moon and children are born there, not many will survive unless artificial gravity is produced. And descendants of these Lunarians and new Martians growing up in a reduced gravitational field will be diminutive creatures, perhaps much like the stylized version of grey aliens, with big heads and frail bones. Unable to return to Earth unless they are encapsulated in some type of environmental suit that reduces gravitational stress. Thanks tons for the info. by the way I've validated your information from data culled from Joseph Jones Explorations of the Aboriginal REmains of Tennessee, an 1870's expedition for the Smithsonian. He was amazed that the skeletal remains of recent (20 years previous) burials were almost completely disintegrated yet as he dug down through the mounds he came up recognizable skeletons of the mound builders. although most crumbled when exposed to air. As regards changes in height. On the Isle of Bahrain (ancient Dilmun) are mounds of graves thousands of years old. The skeletons there are of people much taller and healthier as are the extant remains of other cro magnam's. The Napoleonic Wars knocked 2 inches off the height of the average Frenchman. Napoleon used the tallest Frenchmen for his Imperial Guard and Shock troops and they were decimated at Waterloo, and on the road to Moscow. In an Abbey at England, they excavated a graveyard and discovered bones too large to fit in the standard bone box of the British Museum. The experts theorize that 1. They were Vikings 2. That the bones belonged to folk who were raised inside the monastery and enjoyed better nutrition. Charlesmagne was 6'4" tall. The Celts towered over the Roman Legions, the Teutons were huge in comparison to the Romans. The Vikings were also very tall. Edward Longshanks (Edward I) carried a 6' long sword and could mount his Norman Steed (not a small horse) from the ground by swinging his leg over the horse. That is why he had the name Longshanks. The Woodland Indians of the 16th and 17th Century towered over the English settlers and soldiers. Indeed their are still native American peoples in Minnesota (can't remember the tribe) that are still very tall (had a friend name Dick Darco who was one such). A combination of many things. Genetic culling by warfare, nutrition being another reason. Etc. But as regards wild game and early man. I don't think size alone explains it, because lions, tigers and bears take down game many times their size. Perhaps the "fear" of animals is learned by man. Dogs are socialized creatures, but in packs they have been known to attack humans, especially when hungry. Tigers take down humans all the time in India and Lions do the same in Africa. My little Samantha, weighs about 6 pounds, took down a huge pheasant last year, dragged it home as proud as can be. Use to have a little grey alley cat when I was 15 and it brought home a rabbit twice its size. Lee > >Even today, the majority of animals are scared of humans. I recently saw on >TV an unarmed 'native' shepherd walking towards a large male lion to scare >it off. We can make an infinite variety of sounds and gestures that confuse >animals as to our strength. Another TV program I recently watched was about >a lion tamer. He said the animals would find ways to try to test his >strength. He also said that if any of the cats knew his true strength, they >would be no longer suitable for his act, as they would then see themselves >as dominant and think they should be in charge (or simply kill him). The >cats were very intelligent and sly as well. All dogs (with a few notable >exceptions such as Pit-Bulls) will run if you attack them on their own. >I've had a few tussles with Dobermans and German Shepherds in my time! > >Animals can smell fear. Most mammals emit a scent when they are afraid due >to the hormone rush of the 'fight or flight' response. That's why some >people can walk up to a viscous dog and the dog is playful, while others, >even if they appear unafraid, incur the wrath of the dog. The people who >can walk up to viscous dogs are genuinely not afraid (and probably mad >-} ) > >In theory we should evolve to some puny, weak creature with our reliance on >labour saving devices and supermarket food. Apparently though, we are as a >race getting larger and stronger again. I wonder what the reason for this >could be? I used to live in part of an old castle. The doors were about >18" too low for me to walk through. This shows how much we have changed >over the last few hundred years. > > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > >PS Lee - could you put who the original message was from at the top of your >posts so we can follow the thread. Thanks > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >[snip] >>Man is the weakest and most defenseless of creatures. Just camp out on the >>Serengeti or stroll the Alaskan wilds (without firearms of weapons). >> >>A baboon is strong and has fangs, a chimp is strong has fangs and can climb >>trees rapidly. >> >>Man is prey, less challenging to a lion or bear than a gazelle. >> >>It had to take a long time before man learned to use fire, sticks and the >>jawbone of a zebra as a weapon. I doubt if he could have survived on his on >>all that time. >> >>something wrong with evolution and natural selection. Don't know where you >>got that from my remarks. >[snip] > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 17:00:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14178; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:54:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:54:40 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909045347.00b69730@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 04:53:47 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Chicken eggs In-Reply-To: <199809081604.SAA25748@imaginet.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Vgpt22.0.NT3._ESzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6189 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Does this mean that what I originally posted was at least in part correct. That the chickens needed silica to lay eggs? At 06:04 PM 9/8/98 +0200, you wrote: >Hi David, Zack, Steve.. & all > >A few quotations from the 2nd book (French edition, 1966) by Louis Kervran >on biological transmutations (my translation) : > >"Mica contains potassium silicate. So chicken would seem to produce the >reaction : potassium + hydrogen = calcium." > >Later in the book, after presenting other transmutation occurences, in >geology, micro-organisms, etc > >"Nature has 3 ways to obtain calcium by transmutation : potassium + >hydrogen, magnesium + oxygen, silicium + carbone." > >Details about the chicken egg experiments : > >"In a poultry, on a soil made of clay, chicken were left without "calcaire" >(chalk materials). After a few days, they laid eggs with soft shells. Then >we brought them pure analyzed mica (from a minerals supplier). Those >chicken, raised in a closed poultry, bought as 1-day old chicks, had never >seen mica. They ate it voraciously. (...). The next day, we had eggs with >normal shells. Elsewhere, another experiment was done for 40 days. As soon >as mica was suppressed, the next day there were soft shells - because >potassium is not stocked, it is formed and eliminated rapidly." > >Hope this helps > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Jean-Pierre Lentin >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 17:54:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04396; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:47:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:47:48 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Grat Crabtree" To: "'Bill Wallace'" , Subject: RE:white powdered gold Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:49:20 -0700 Message-ID: <005001bddb8b$c1b2cea0$4d4668cf@gratnsue> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <057901bddaf2$6a4528a0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"eC0_D1.0.a41.p0Tzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6190 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: it supposedly killed some lady in Arizona, bacterial contamination or something. she had cancer and was about to die anyway. (I got these links from bill b. site) http://monatomic.earth.com/ http://www.levity.com/alchemy/hudson.html Grat http://I.am/Grat http://grat.home.ml.org http://grat.conk.com -----Original Message----- From: Bill Wallace [mailto:btech@surfsouth.com] Sent: Monday, September 07, 1998 11:30 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses Do you have info or links? > Heard some stuff about monoatomic elements and longevity - David Hudson I > think his name is. Supposedly he sells "powdered gold" or something like > that, suppose to do wonders. > >> > >Yes it regenerate the DNA. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 18:08:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10410; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:06:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:06:19 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 01:07:29 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35f5d46c.3700645@mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"g_4Ac3.0.ZY2.AITzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6191 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:42:34 -0500 (CDT), Zack Widup wrote: [snip] >Here's a thought to consider. This was pointed out by Ilya Prigogine in >one of his books. > >The theory of evolution or natural seletion is in direct opposition to >the second law of thermodynamics. The system is tending toward more >ORDER, not toward more CHAOS. > >Zack Yes, but it's not a closed system. Specifically, high value solar energy is entering the system continually, and low grade heat is leaving the system continually. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 18:10:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10938; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:07:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:07:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909071147.00b39420@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 07:11:47 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <35F5EA02.68E9@tiac.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980909003432.00b42350@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"4G0Yj.0.fg2.EJTzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6195 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Great: Now explain how pounding it with a hammer can produce a magnet, within the confines of current thinking. I've already got an explanation it has to do with bunching up electrons. Want to think about it? Lee At 07:37 PM 9/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: >> >> Thanks: But if you look in outdoor survival books or Old Boy Scout >> handbooks I think that you'll find that a way to make a compass is to rub a >> needle with a silk scarf. That's where I got the idea in the first place. >> >> Lee > >Ok, I've found methods for making a compass with a needle by: > >Rubbing it with a magnet. > >Rubbing it with a piece of loadstone (natural magent). > >Laying it down facing North, then pounding on the south end with a rock! > >(it further claims that a 'soft iron nail is best, >200 firm blows >should do...'!!! This was kinda new to me!) > >I've found nothing about using silk so far. Anyone have others? > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 18:10:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10675; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:07:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:07:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909063335.00b7e7a0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 06:33:35 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Ohms Law Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-eqde1.0.Hc2.vITzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6192 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Posted by Lee Markland: > >By the book, an ampere is defined as one volt across one ohm of resistance >causes a current flow of one ampere.. > >Ron > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 18:10:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11015; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:07:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:07:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909071719.00b86190@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 07:17:19 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Moderation In-Reply-To: <35F5EB12.520@tiac.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980909020633.00b426c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"mtg9V.0.sh2.IJTzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6196 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I will defer to the listowner. If theory can not be questioned (Bob uses the word attack, indicating to me that to question a theory is perceived as a personal attack - just my perception) then science and exposition grounds to a halt. I might not be able to present "hard" core evidence, because to obtain such evidence the theory must be accepted and resources allocated. This doesn't happen in the real world. However a theory can be questioned based upon known facts, observations and logical deduction and exposition. I think such is appropriate. If not then it is tantamount to censorship. Thomas Kuhn, in his book 'The Structure of Scientific Revolutions' he describes the reactions of scientists to new discoveries and hard it is for them to make changes in their basic beliefs. Kuhn noticed that scientists would go to any lengths to deny the validity of new theories or the need to change their minds. He describes the symptoms associated with fundamental change: 1. Persistent denial 2. Refusal to consider evidence 3. Reluctance to criticize old ideas 4. Slander of new-thinking colleagues 5. Anger at having to give up cherished Lee At 07:42 PM 9/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: >> >> Sounds good to me. Does that mean that we can discuss stuff without >> constant recourse back to "laws" and "conventional physics" and perhaps >> suspend belief in same in consideration of the possibility that said "laws" >> and "theories" have gaps, laws and problems - not all mind you, but some. > >We can, and do discuss many things here, but the list rules make a clear >distinction between evidence and theory. > >If you attack a 'theory' that has a lot of accepted evidence, then you >simply need to provide some clear evidence to support your position. > >But as far as discussion, ask a question here and you will probably get >a few different answers to choose from. > >Is that a bad thing? > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 18:11:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10917; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:07:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:07:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909070918.00b37cc0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 07:09:18 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <35F5E90F.2FDE@tiac.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980907070645.009c6420@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980909014606.00b409b0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qQ97P2.0.8g2.CJTzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6194 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:33 PM 9/8/98 -0700, you wrote: > > >A magnet does not have a surplus or excess of electrons. I guess this is a way of looking at things or conceptualizing what goes on in a magnet. I can only think of electromagnets at this point. I conceptualize a magnet as an overcharged piece of matter. For instance lighting can magnetize metal. It doesn't fit within your theoretical framework I know - I'm sorry, again I suggest that perhaps the theoretical framework be looked at anew. >Materials with an excess of electrons are conductors, but some of the >most powerful magnets made today are vrey good insulators, materials >with a lack of excess electrons. Glass is an insulator, yet by rubbing silk against it, electrons flow from the silk to the glass (or are rubbed off) and the glass thin can attract feathers, dust, paper etc (almost sounds like gravity to me). > >What happens with the filings is the result of each small filing >becomming a micro-magnet under the influance of the larger magnet. They >then line up. > >May I (respectfully) ask why you see the action specifically of >electrons here? I'm thinking of a piece of matter that is overcharged. You probably like to think of something called magnetrons or whatever name they have developed for particles. Why can't it be something so simple as an excess of electrons? > >> Also look at static cling. The process of rubbing and the heat strip >> electrons off the material, it now has a deficit of electrons and clings to >> itself. When you drop that material on the floor the deficit is made up and >> the electrons from ground leap through space with a snap, crackle and a >> spark and equilibrium is restored. > >Ahhh, but magnets dont 'spark' like that at all! This is one way to >tell the action of electrons from the much less understood action of >magnetic fields! Ahhhh, but magnets don't have a deficit of electrons and the silk scarf does. Let me do some mind opening here. Sit back, take a breath give up preconceived notions and demystify what I think is a simple process. Magnetism is simply an overcharged piece of matter now if you can tentatively accept that possible explanation and then start asking the right questions from that premise, where will it take you. However if you slam the book shut, you get nowhere and we are still left with mystical mysterious magnetism. > >If it were due to electrons, we could block a magnetic field with tin >foil, as >tin foil is a good electrostatic shield, but a poor magnetic shield. > >Electrons can move about easily. Current thinking is that the >magnetisim of bulk materials (not single particles) comes mainly from >the nucleus, and so it is rather harder to 'transfer' from material to >material. Aha, but again current thinking, and current thinking has so overly complicated what in all likelihood are rather simplistic issues. I've thrown out a couple of theories, that cut like Occam's Razor to the quick. However the "current thinking" has so convoluted reality that it has become incomprehensible and complex that it is unreal and does not describe reality. Sure makes for good paying jobs in the physics labs and in universities though. Lee > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 18:12:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10721; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:07:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:07:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909063413.00b73eb0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 06:34:13 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Very Off Topic - Chicken Eggs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"mx6vx3.0.Ed2.yITzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6193 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: .3 > > > >+AD4-Interesting. Learning more each day. I understand that deer and sheep in >+AD4-certain regions which have a shortage of minerals become predators, eating >+AD4-birds, usually the heads and wings. > > > I don't know about deer or sheep which are grass eaters, but baby chicks >if not supplied with feed will peck each other to death. I've had this >happen. > >Ron > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 18:36:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23640; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:33:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:33:34 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980909093806.009bac90@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 09:38:06 +0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Minato's Wheel ??? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1XpGb.0.ym5.jhTzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6197 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In July's New Energy News we find: >The first western hemisphere demonstration will be given in Mexico >City in early July, 1998. NEN plans to attend. We will post our >report on the INE Webpage. Patrick Bailey of INE recently wrote : >The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: > >http://www.padrak.com/ine/ But nothing to be found on Minato's wheel. It is well into September now, so what happened to the report on the Minato magnetic wheel? All I have read so far is some enigmatic comment about there being both positives and negatives. Maybe it actually WORKS and now people are trying to get the "cat back into the bag"! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 18:46:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29367; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:44:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:44:07 -0700 Message-ID: <35F605A3.71E0@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 21:35:47 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics References: <3.0.5.32.19980909003432.00b42350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980909071147.00b39420@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BMWDU.0.hA7.crTzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6198 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > Great: Now explain how pounding it with a hammer can produce a magnet, > within the confines of current thinking. I've already got an explanation it > has to do with bunching up electrons. Want to think about it? Sure. If I place the bit of iron on a magnet, and pound it, it will become magnetized much faster than if I simply allow it to sit there. The tapping allows the magnetic fields in each atom align to the external applied field. This is much the same as heating, and then cooling the iron in a magnetic field. If we align the needle north-south and do the same thing, we are simply using the Earth itself as a much larger, but weaker magnetic field. How can you describe the behavior of a magnetic field with electrons? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 18:48:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA30800; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:46:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:46:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909075757.00b4f270@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 07:57:57 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses In-Reply-To: <35f5d46c.3700645@mail-hub> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ao8zr1.0.AX7.xtTzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6199 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:07 AM 9/9/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:42:34 -0500 (CDT), Zack Widup wrote: >[snip] >>Here's a thought to consider. This was pointed out by Ilya Prigogine in >>one of his books. >> >>The theory of evolution or natural seletion is in direct opposition to >>the second law of thermodynamics. The system is tending toward more >>ORDER, not toward more CHAOS. >> >>Zack >Yes, but it's not a closed system. >Specifically, high value solar energy is entering the system >continually, and low grade heat is leaving the system continually. > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk Where is this high value solar energy coming from, other than the sun. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 19:06:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06564; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:03:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:03:00 -0700 Message-ID: <35F60A11.39AF@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 21:54:41 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics References: <3.0.5.32.19980907070645.009c6420@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980909014606.00b409b0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980909070918.00b37cc0@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QSh7e.0.Tc1.J7Uzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6200 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > Glass is an insulator, yet by rubbing silk against it, electrons flow from > the silk to the glass (or are rubbed off) and the glass thin can attract > feathers, dust, paper etc (almost sounds like gravity to me). > >Ahhh, but magnets dont 'spark' like that at all! This is one way to > >tell the action of electrons from the much less understood action of > >magnetic fields! > > Ahhhh, but magnets don't have a deficit of electrons and the silk scarf does. Lee, you correctly wrote that the silk gives excess electrons to the glass. This is triboelectricity. Relative to glass, silk has excess electrons. > Let me do some mind opening here. Sit back, take a breath give up > preconceived notions and demystify what I think is a simple process. > > Magnetism is simply an overcharged piece of matter now if you can > tentatively accept that possible explanation and then start asking the > right questions from that premise, where will it take you. > > However if you slam the book shut, you get nowhere and we are still left > with mystical mysterious magnetism. Lets try Lee. Are you saying that a magnet becomes a magnet by absorbing electrostatic charge? We can test that. You say overcharged, and mention electrons. Based on my experiance and training I tend to assume that you are describing electrostatic charge here, just like silk and glass. If this is what you are saying, then can you tell me if a charged capacitor will have any measurable magnetic field when charged that is different from it when uncharged? > >Electrons can move about easily. Current thinking is that the > >magnetisim of bulk materials (not single particles) comes mainly from > >the nucleus, and so it is rather harder to 'transfer' from material to > >material. > > Aha, but again current thinking, and current thinking has so overly > complicated what in all likelihood are rather simplistic issues. If a simpler model describes real experiments, I'm all for it. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 19:07:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07646; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:05:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:05:07 -0700 Message-ID: <35F60A8E.66E9@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 21:56:46 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses References: <3.0.5.32.19980909075757.00b4f270@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MFiYg3.0.Nt1.J9Uzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6201 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > Where is this high value solar energy coming from, other than the sun. The moon? ;-) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 19:15:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10621; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:10:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:10:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909082253.00b541d0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 08:22:53 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <35F605A3.71E0@tiac.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980909003432.00b42350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980909071147.00b39420@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"wSvjz2.0.mb2.IEUzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6202 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:35 PM 9/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: >> >> Great: Now explain how pounding it with a hammer can produce a magnet, >> within the confines of current thinking. I've already got an explanation it >> has to do with bunching up electrons. Want to think about it? > >Sure. > >If I place the bit of iron on a magnet, and pound it, it will become >magnetized much faster than if I simply allow it to sit there. > >The tapping allows the magnetic fields in each atom align to the >external applied field. This is much the same as heating, and then >cooling the iron in a magnetic field. Can you PROVE that. Can you prove that tapping aligns to the external applied field? I don't think so, it is just theory. I think my theory that tapping pushes electrons towards one end is just as valid. >How can you describe the behavior of a magnetic field with electrons? How can you describe the behavior of a magnetic field with atoms? The electron theory at least allows for a physical process since the Earth is enveloped in an EMF. Your atom theory has no physical process and is purely metaphysical. Please explain what physical process could cause a magnet to point towards the poles. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 19:22:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14907; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:18:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:18:53 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:19:51 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: "usat@usa.net" cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, m~m Subject: McGwire /USA President/ and people in general Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"DL8vF2.0.ee3.CMUzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6203 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi ALL!! :):):):):):):):) For those that don't like like sports, bear with me :) for a SHOT was heard around the world tonight for the "good guys!" Mark McGwire has hit his 62nd Home run in Baseball! St. Louis MO can be proud. Baseball, Is bringing a LIGHT back into the world! I understand the president is expected to make a call of congrat(s) as in men-on the moon, super-bowl etc. Where is CLinton tonight BTW? Truth, Justice & the American Way! We now return you to your normal whatever! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 19:26:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17839; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:24:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:24:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909083638.00b731f0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 08:36:38 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses In-Reply-To: <35F60A8E.66E9@tiac.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980909075757.00b4f270@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"zMSYi2.0.ZM4.9RUzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6204 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:56 PM 9/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: > >> Where is this high value solar energy coming from, other than the sun. > >The moon? ;-) LOL and Lee ROTFLLHFAO. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 19:29:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17910; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:24:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:24:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909083545.00b5de70@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 08:35:45 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <35F60A11.39AF@tiac.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980907070645.009c6420@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980909014606.00b409b0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980909070918.00b37cc0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"pCaBZ1.0.fN4.GRUzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6205 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:54 PM 9/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: LOL Bob, you sure like talking to me don't you? Why's that. >Lets try Lee. > >Are you saying that a magnet becomes a magnet by absorbing electrostatic >charge? >We can test that. Nope: I ain't saying that at all, you are saying it. I'm saying that there is a transfer of electrons to the object that becomes a magnet, hence overcharging it. That is why it interacts with the Earths EM field. > >You say overcharged, and mention electrons. Based on my experiance and >training I tend to assume that you are describing electrostatic charge >here, just like silk and glass. > >If this is what you are saying, then can you tell me if a charged >capacitor will have any measurable magnetic field when charged that is >different from it when uncharged? Not what I said at all, see above. Talking magnets and capacitors ain't talking the same thing. Maybe in your lexicon, not in mine though. Why is that we can make an electromagnet? or electricity can create a magnet? Perhaps electron transfer. >> >Electrons can move about easily. Current thinking is that the >> >magnetisim of bulk materials (not single particles) comes mainly from >> >the nucleus, and so it is rather harder to 'transfer' from material to >> >material. >> >> Aha, but again current thinking, and current thinking has so overly >> complicated what in all likelihood are rather simplistic issues. > >If a simpler model describes real experiments, I'm all for it. Real experiments don't verify how magnets are made. The hypotheses associated with magnets is theory, you said so yourself and it is "mysterious" in your own words. Lee > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 19:30:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19185; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:27:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:27:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909083823.00b38cb0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 08:38:23 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: McGwire /USA President/ and people in general In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"pALia3.0.gh4.NUUzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6206 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:19 PM 9/8/98 -0600, you wrote: >Hi ALL!! :):):):):):):):) > >For those that don't like like sports, bear with me :) for a SHOT was >heard around the world tonight for the "good guys!" > > Mark McGwire has hit his 62nd Home run in Baseball! St. Louis MO can be >proud. Baseball, >Is bringing a LIGHT back into the world! I understand the president is >expected to make a call of congrat(s) as in men-on the moon, super-bowl >etc. Where is CLinton tonight BTW? > >Truth, Justice & the American Way! > >We now return you to your normal whatever! > Nope this is more exciting, wonder where the record will end up. Who was the pitcher, history will always remember him as the guy that threw the record breaking pitch. What a way to go down in a history :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 19:41:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24644; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:35:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:35:57 -0700 Message-ID: <35F611C0.69C@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 22:27:28 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics References: <3.0.5.32.19980909003432.00b42350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980909071147.00b39420@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980909082253.00b541d0@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XJ5SY2.0.Y06.BcUzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6207 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > >The tapping allows the magnetic fields in each atom align to the > >external applied field. This is much the same as heating, and then > >cooling the iron in a magnetic field. > > Can you PROVE that. Can you prove that tapping aligns to the external > applied field? Yes, I beleive that I can. > I don't think so, it is just theory. If you are really interested in doing this, then I think we can construct a simple set of experiments without spending a lot of money, that will actually 'prove' that tapping does indeed align the internal magnetic fields. But let me first ask, just what would you accept as proof. > I think my theory that tapping pushes electrons towards one end is just as > valid. Ok, how can we know that this is true, or is probably true? If a magnetic field is electrons, why does a thin sheet of tin foil not stop its attraction to a bit of iron, while that same sheet of foil does stop the glass rod & silk attraction? This is where the rubber hits the road, actual tests. What can we test so we may know what is true? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 20:51:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22689; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:49:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:49:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199809090351.AAA12632@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:49:01 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Back to Basics Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <35F5E90F.2FDE@tiac.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"1UShj2.0.MY5.IhVzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6208 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > What happens with the filings is the result of each small filing > becomming a micro-magnet under the influance of the larger magnet. They > then line up. > What happens if you rotate your large magnet parallel to the alignment of the fillings ? Does the fillings line move ? --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 21:05:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27050; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:03:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:03:15 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909094351.00b5d800@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 09:43:51 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Common Sense Physics In-Reply-To: <35F60A8E.66E9@tiac.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980909075757.00b4f270@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"RtqJ9.0.Xc6.2uVzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6209 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If something moves, something is making it move. All motion requires a current force and current force requires a physical process. All else is metaphysics. Mass gravity is metaphysics and circular reasoning besides: Mass causes gravity, gravity creates mass. Inertia as an explanation for the movement of planet is metaphysics. Angular momentum as an explanation for the rotation of the Earth is metaphysics, besides which it tells us nothing of what makes the Earth rotate. Galileo, thinking that he has demonstrated inertia as the force causing rotation, creates the occult notion that historic forces produce current motion by occupying the matter doing the moving. Result of our arrogance and ignorance: We don't look for answers because we think we have all the answers. And because we think we have all the answers, new observations result in more occult and bizarre explanations. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 21:22:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05291; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:20:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:20:21 -0700 To: MH2_BRIGGS@ODNVMS.A1.Ohio.Gov Cc: webriggs@concentric.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:18:03 -0700 Subject: Re: The Newman's Energy Machine - Cooling Effect Message-ID: <19980908.211907.12166.4.tv@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-12,14-26,28-31,33,35,37,39,41-48,50-57 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"bE27f3.0.FI1.38Wzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6211 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill, Thanks for the thoughtful input. I thought about this too, but where does the heat go. A Peltier device moves heat across its junction. Where does the heat from the large Newman coil go ??? Best Regards, Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 writes: >Tim Vaughan & JL Naudin, > >Have been following your web pages with a lot of interest. > >Something I saw the other day reminded me of your discussion of: > >"Recent experimental observation by Jean-Louis Naudin of an anomalous >cooling effect in a large coil of wire." > >During JLN's testing of "The Newman's Energy Machine". > >I found for sale a solid state computer CPU cooling device. This uses >direct current between to solid state plates to cool the CPU. This is based >on the "Peltier Effect". > >"The Peltier effect was discovered in 1834. When current passes >through the junction of two different types of conductors it results in a >temperature change. However, the practical application of this concept required >the development of semiconductors that are good conductors of electricity >but poor conductors of heat - the perfect balance for TEC performance. Today, >bismuth telluride is primarily used as the semiconductor material, heavily >doped to create either an excess (n-type) or a deficiency (p-type) of >electrons." > >Like a thermocouple in reverse. > >Where this uses a semiconductor, a Newman Energy Machine type device >uses magnetic fields. A poor conductor of heat, but a good >conductor/inducer of electricity. It wouldn't be as efficient as specifically designed >materials, but perhaps the same principles apply. > >Let me know if I'm totally off the wall. > >William E. Briggs Jr. >webriggs@concentric.net > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 21:22:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05409; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:20:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:20:26 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, ad502@iesun9 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:11:30 -0700 Subject: Re: Cooling Effect and TEC Message-ID: <19980908.211907.12166.3.tv@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-11,16-23,31-32,38-39,48-49,52-53,55-56,58-65, 67-68,70-81 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"IbZ081.0.8K1.88Wzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6212 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:03:31 +0100 (BST) Remi Cornwall writes: >VO, >Can anybody expand on Tim Vaughan's TEC. >Apologies to Frederick, I didn't realise what you were getting at. I >thought you meant steady state. There could be something in this >transient idea. Naudlin et al seem to have performed very robust >experiments. >Remi. Hi Remi, Indeed, the experiment by Jean-Louis Naudin looks very intriguing. Especially since Leon Dragone reported the same effect in the late 1980's. The physicist P.T. Pappas also observed Leon's experiments and reported the cooling effect. However, it needs to be replicated and further verified. With regard to my speculative theory to explain the cooling effect: (See J. Naudins web page "The Search for Overunity": http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NewMcool.htm ) Transient Electron Coherence, as I call it, is an idea derived from the fact that free (conduction) electrons traveling through a metal crystal lattice, can be caused to reflect when they reach certain "forbidden" energies (wavelengths). This can happen as an electron accelerates OR decelerates. Since the highest energy band (range of allowable energies) is only partially filled (filled from lowest energies first), the reflections due to reverse moving / slowing electrons should greatly exceed the reflections due to forward moving / accelerating electrons. The TEC effect should be greater at higher voltages such as in the stator coil of a Newman motor. The high voltage can be from the power supply (batteries) or field collapse. Also it would seem logical that a longer coil (more windings) would make the effect more pronounced because there is less side scattering in long thin wires and of course greater magnetic field for a given small current. Why is the effect only transient ? First there is only a limited population of eligible electrons that are near the lower energy boundary of the conduction band. It seems to me, that the decrease in entropy due to electron coherence would be quickly lost due to electron scattering. So like a pulsed LASER, the population of "negative temperature" electrons would have be restored periodically by ambient energy. The energy gained due to the TEC effect would have be captured by proper commutation of the coil like J. Newman and J. Naudin apparently do in the large coil motors. The energy of random moving electrons in a metal (Fermi ZPE and thermal energy) is enormous, if only a small amount could be cohered it would be substantial. I would like to hear more comments from physicists and others who might have greater knowledge of the behavior free electrons in metals. In addition to the Transient Electron Coherence idea, other possible explanations may include: - a mistaken observation - electromagnetic interference to the electronic thermometer - an expansion of the electron gas in the conductor - a Phase Conjugate time reversal involving electrons (T.E. Bearden) - some kind of effect similar to the Peltier effect. I think Jean-Louis Naudin's careful plotting of temperature eliminate the first two possibilities, but still possible, especially the EMF idea. Phase Conjugation ? Maybe. It works with light. Why not with electrons ? The last idea does not make sense to me. Where does the heat move to ? Peltier effect moves heat across a junction. Best Regards, Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 21:23:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01939; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:15:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:15:19 -0700 Message-ID: <09bb01bddba8$2ae6cf40$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Moderation Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:58:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"DpAJZ2.0.BU.M3Wzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6210 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >While I may strongly disagree with any given members ideas of >philosophy, I read this list, and respond to it because I value the >exchange of ideas, more-so if those ideas have an experimental basis in >fact. Bringing lawyers into things always mucks everything up, justified or not. >My leagal recourse is very clear in this case. The lawyers already have so much money, is Jerry really worth it to you? >But libel is another matter. And you may have grounds, but I would have more respect for you if you did not make a lawyer richer based on them. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 21:44:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15907; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:42:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:42:30 -0700 Message-ID: <0a1701bddbab$f7d899e0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:25:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"QZhKx2.0.Tu3.rSWzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6213 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Man is the weakest and most defenseless of creatures. Now he may be, but was that always true, if our technology was removed you do not think we would adapt back to a more natural enviornment? >A baboon is strong and has fangs, a chimp is strong has fangs and can climb >trees rapidly. Perhaps when they chased man he jumped into the water and swam away, could they? Or when he was in the water he got out, how many other creatures can maneuver land and water as well as us? Control items in their evironment as well as us (our hands) etc etc >Man is prey, less challenging to a lion or bear than a gazelle. Today perhaps, but was that always true? >It had to take a long time before man learned to use fire, sticks and the >jawbone of a zebra as a weapon. I doubt if he could have survived on his on >all that time. Not if he were like he was today, that is why we evolved, natural selection. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 21:49:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17880; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:46:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:46:52 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chicken eggs (not so off-topic ?) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 04:47:58 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <35f607ae.5209209@mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZO9aE.0.BN4.xWWzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6214 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:28:02 -0500 (CDT), Zack Widup wrote: [snip] >pot-bellied stove in a one-room schoolhouse got very ill. He theorized >that red-hot iron somehow turns oxygen molecules into a metastable form >which is converted in the human body into CO (one proton from one oxygen >atom moves over to the other oxygen atom and it becomes a carbon monoxide >molecule.) Actually this is nitrogen molecules (not oxygen) - 2 x 14 = 12 +16. Personally, I think it more likely that CO was formed directly from the fuel in the stove through incomplete combustion. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 21:51:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA19056; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:49:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:49:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909110028.00b20c50@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 11:00:28 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <35F611C0.69C@tiac.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980909003432.00b42350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980909071147.00b39420@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980909082253.00b541d0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"BKVII2.0.af4.KZWzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6216 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:27 PM 9/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: > > > >> >The tapping allows the magnetic fields in each atom align to the >> >external applied field. This is much the same as heating, and then >> >cooling the iron in a magnetic field. >> >> Can you PROVE that. Can you prove that tapping aligns to the external >> applied field? > >Yes, I beleive that I can. > >> I don't think so, it is just theory. > >If you are really interested in doing this, then I think we can >construct a simple set of experiments without spending a lot of money, >that will actually 'prove' that tapping does indeed align the internal >magnetic fields. > >But let me first ask, just what would you accept as proof. Good question. I know that tapping will magnetize an nail or needle, but the question then is what is happening. I don't think you or anyone else can prove that it is aligning the internal magnetic field. First of all there is no "internal" magnetic field prior to the tapping. So as to what happens after it is tapped becomes a matter of opinion (otherwise known as theory, hypotheses, speculation). >> I think my theory that tapping pushes electrons towards one end is just as >> valid. > >Ok, how can we know that this is true, or is probably true? >If a magnetic field is electrons, why does a thin sheet of tin foil >not stop its attraction to a bit of iron, while that same sheet of foil >does stop the glass rod & silk attraction? The difference would probably be in the structure of the two objects I'm guessing. By tin foil, I'm assuming you actually mean aluminum foil. The overcharged glass will lose its electrons up to aluminum foil, the magnet won't The glass and the magnet have different molecular structures. The silk will cling to the glass but it won't cling to the magnet, yet both the glass and the magnet evince attractive qualities. The overcharged glass will give up its surplus electrons if grounded, the magnet won't. >This is where the rubber hits the road, actual tests. >What can we test so we may know what is true? We can't test anything so look as we think we have all the answers - as the tires squeal out down the drag strip. We can test effects, but can only hypothesize within the limitations of our recall as to why the effect is being observed or why it isn't being observed. It boils down to this: What have I been told by authority and what do I believe. If authority is questioned, and new ways of looking at things are considered then questions not asked before can be considered. That is a risky business, because it means giving up some of ones ego and identity. Humans have this failing of identifying with their beliefs. Doubt me, just question a devout christian and throw the validity of his belief into question. Same with science and scientists. Me, to be truthful, I am neither I just think and ask questions. All I know is that if something moves, something is making it move and it takes a current force to make things move and a current force requires a physical process - physical science, not metaphysical science. Lee > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 21:51:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA19027; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:49:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:49:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909104425.00fad720@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 10:44:25 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Chicken eggs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1bCrU2.0.3f4.IZWzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6215 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chickens, like any creature with a craw, need to eat gravel in order to digest their food. I've found that providing them with crushed seashell causes them to produce eggs with thicker shells though. I've no idea as to why, it just does. Ron From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 22:01:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23540; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:59:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:59:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909111058.00b7f380@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 11:10:58 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Chicken eggs (not so off-topic ?) In-Reply-To: <35f607ae.5209209@mail-hub> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"7s3Ys3.0.cl5.QiWzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6218 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:47 AM 9/9/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:28:02 -0500 (CDT), Zack Widup wrote: >[snip] >>pot-bellied stove in a one-room schoolhouse got very ill. He theorized >>that red-hot iron somehow turns oxygen molecules into a metastable form >>which is converted in the human body into CO (one proton from one oxygen >>atom moves over to the other oxygen atom and it becomes a carbon monoxide >>molecule.) >Actually this is nitrogen molecules (not oxygen) - 2 x 14 = 12 +16. >Personally, I think it more likely that CO was formed directly from >the fuel in the stove through incomplete combustion. > >[snip] >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk Nitrogen is that which is responsible for nitrogen narcosis - Raptures of the Deep. Considering that we live at the bottom of an ocean of air that is 78% nitrogen I think that might explain a lot of human behavior, beliefs and ideations. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 22:02:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23503; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:59:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:59:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980909110820.00b89180@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 11:08:20 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses In-Reply-To: <0a1701bddbab$f7d899e0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"NFXtf2.0.9l5.OiWzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6217 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This argument or the response assumes natural selection and Darwin. Mind you I am an atheist or if one does not like the word I don't believe in the God or Gods man creates in his own image and have no use for the Bible. There are other possibilities as to the answer Why Man? And other possible explanations for us than natural selection. There is also a lot of egotism in our species, considering that we consider ourselves the top of the food chain and the epitome of natural selection. Back to my point spent a night or two unarmed in the Serengeti or go walking through Kodiak country for some 40 miles without a weapon and then tell me how great we are as a species. Lee At 12:25 AM 9/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Man is the weakest and most defenseless of creatures. > >Now he may be, but was that always true, if our technology was removed you >do not think we would adapt back to a more natural enviornment? > >>A baboon is strong and has fangs, a chimp is strong has fangs and can climb >>trees rapidly. > >Perhaps when they chased man he jumped into the water and swam away, could >they? Or when he was in the water he got out, how many other creatures can >maneuver land and water as well as us? Control items in their evironment as >well as us (our hands) etc etc > >>Man is prey, less challenging to a lion or bear than a gazelle. > >Today perhaps, but was that always true? > >>It had to take a long time before man learned to use fire, sticks and the >>jawbone of a zebra as a weapon. I doubt if he could have survived on his on >>all that time. > >Not if he were like he was today, that is why we evolved, natural selection. > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 22:21:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA30228; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:19:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:19:36 -0700 Message-ID: <005201bddb87$4e874e00$7a1262d1@lpatterson> From: "Axehandler" To: Subject: Re: Back to Basics Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:17:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"QDxT_3.0.CO7.d_Wzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6219 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OK... Jump right in here =) Magnets are like Coils right? A coil produces a magnetic effect... and since we are using the flow of electrons to produce this field, that would mean that a Magnet is just a continous flow of electrons. Tin blocks electrons? I wasn't aware of this.. but if it does... I would then assume that if you placed a Strip of Tin over the top of a Horse Show magnet, then the Magnetic Effect above the Tin would be Less then below the tin... can someone test this? I'm not convinced that Tin would completly stop a Magnet, or even electricity, cause it is still made of atoms which should line up with the other electons to produce a magnetic effect. course.. wood can't be magnetized... and it's made up of atoms... humm.. starts to make ya think =) (Likes to think) Larry Aka : Axehandler From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 22:33:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03487; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:31:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:31:19 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:32:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Chicken eggs (not so off-topic ?) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <35f607ae.5209209@mail-hub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"di0sI3.0.Os.cAXzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6220 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:28:02 -0500 (CDT), Zack Widup wrote: > [snip] > >pot-bellied stove in a one-room schoolhouse got very ill. He theorized > >that red-hot iron somehow turns oxygen molecules into a metastable form > >which is converted in the human body into CO (one proton from one oxygen > >atom moves over to the other oxygen atom and it becomes a carbon monoxide > >molecule.) > Actually this is nitrogen molecules (not oxygen) - 2 x 14 = 12 +16. > Personally, I think it more likely that CO was formed directly from > the fuel in the stove through incomplete combustion. > > [snip] > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > Yes, you're right, it was nitrogen! (That's what I get for posting when half asleep - these 80-hour work weeks are gettig to me!) He mentioned he thought originally there could have been gases coming out of the stove, but then realized that to generate enough heat to turn the iron red-hot, there must be a tremendous draw of air into the stove. Probably enough to create a lower pressure inside than outside it. So any improperly combusted gases went up the chimney, not into the room. (That was his theory, not mine). Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 22:35:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03767; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:32:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:32:23 -0700 Message-ID: <0a7801bddbb2$ef20ae80$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:30:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"fmqO91.0.nw.cBXzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6221 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >There is also a lot of egotism in our species, considering that we consider >ourselves the top of the food chain and the epitome of natural selection. For the moment, but the environment is always changing. It must. If you look at the long term (perhaps billions of years) the best organism to adapt to the new environments is going to be the one that lasts, it may turn out to be the cockroach. I made a mistake of equating intelligence with superiority, that may not be the case in our universe. >Back to my point spent a night or two unarmed in the Serengeti or go >walking through Kodiak country for some 40 miles without a weapon and then >tell me how great we are as a species. But we as a species have been able to change our environment where we do not have to walk through the serengeti, if so you are right, where we are at today - if thrust into that situation, we would almost certainly perish. But we are NOT in that situation. We are not in an environment that requires four legs and big fangs anymore. Perhaps we will destroy ourselves with our nuclear weapons, that will prove that technology more advanced than social responsibility was a failing in our species and something else will come along to replace us. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 23:09:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11635; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:03:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:03:59 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:05:09 +0200 (MET DST) From: Berkant Goeksel X-Sender: aybchgdj@hercules.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980909070918.00b37cc0@rockisland.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"hTV2x.0.er2.EfXzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6222 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All ! What about the theory that magnetism is caused by so called electron spin polarization? I only know the term. But sounds much like the intuitive approach of Lee. Maybe someone can help and explain electron and maybe also nucleus spin polarization. Last action is sometimes related to gravity forces (Henry Wallace, Ning Li etc.). I recommend a recent article by Robert Stirniman on this topic. You can find the paper at Pete Skeggs' homepage. My favorite links (growing!) are listed at http://www.physik.tu-berlin.de/~bgoeksel/propulsion/propul2.html. Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 23:32:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19122; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:31:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:31:01 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Grat Crabtree" To: , "'Bob Shannon'" Subject: RE: an example of Occam's razor in action Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:32:38 -0700 Message-ID: <002901bddbbb$b121edc0$954668cf@gratnsue> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <35F60A8E.66E9@tiac.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"CAdJM1.0.bg4.b2Yzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6224 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Grat http://I.am/Grat http://grat.home.ml.org http://grat.conk.com -----Original Message----- From: Bob Shannon [mailto:bshannon@tiac.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 9:57 PM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses Lee Markland wrote: > Where is this high value solar energy coming from, other than the sun. The moon? ;-) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 23:32:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19058; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:30:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:30:47 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Grat Crabtree" To: "'Lee Markland'" , Subject: RE:what is wrong with lee? Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:27:27 -0700 Message-ID: <002801bddbbb$a5eecd60$954668cf@gratnsue> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980909070918.00b37cc0@rockisland.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"j710b1.0.if4.N2Yzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6223 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: lee, I believe you are stuck up the wrong tree. listen lee you said this: ?Magnetism is simply an overcharged piece of matter now if you can ?tentatively accept that possible explanation and then start asking the ?right questions from that premise, where will it take you. bob said this; >If it were due to electrons, we could block a magnetic field with tin >foil, as >tin foil is a good electrostatic shield, but a poor magnetic shield. > this is true and can be demonstrated. can you not see the simple truth? I guess not because you replied; ?Aha, but again current thinking, and current thinking has so overly ?complicated what in all likelihood are rather simplistic issues. ? ?I've thrown out a couple of theories, that cut like Occam's Razor to the ?quick. However the "current thinking" has so convoluted reality that it has ?become incomprehensible and complex that it is unreal and does not describe ?reality. your 'theories' are based on nothing but your belief in them. you refuse to see reality. the reality is that water does not have to be liquid and aluminum foil will not block a magnet. you cannot say they do and then "POOF" they magically do. sorry but that only works in neverland ranch. the worst part is your attitude of self-righteousness and projecting your clinging to unsound science onto your retractors. you need help. sorry for butting in but this bothers me. stupidity bothers me. Grat http://I.am/Grat http://grat.home.ml.org http://grat.conk.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 8 23:50:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA22830; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:49:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:49:29 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:50:30 +0200 (MET DST) From: Berkant Goeksel X-Sender: aybchgdj@hercules.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PSDls2.0.ea5.uJYzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6225 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All! Just an idea in the morning. If nucleus spin polarization is related in any way to gravity. Then, what about the sensational levitating frog experiment (http://www-hfml.sci.kun.nl/hfml/levitate.html). As I remember, it was described in a German State TV show (Knoff Hoff Show) as caused by nucleus aligning. I don't know much about the influence od strong magnetic fields on humans. But it could be a genuine approach to build an 'Antigravity' chamber maybe using state of the art superconductor technologies. Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 00:38:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00663; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:36:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:36:44 -0700 Message-ID: <008401bddbc4$8d3b7940$67c5efd1@thomas> From: "Thomas Spellman" To: Subject: Re: Run Your Car Without Gasoline - Nexus article minus pix Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:36:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"IvkhO1.0.CA.B0Zzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6226 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >->>NEW SCIENCE NEWS > >>>Interesting news and views from the underground science network. >Here, Barry Hilton describes Joe X's revolutionary fuel cells >that can power a car by seemingly extracting energy from the ether. > > >>It was believable up to the point where the engine wasn't connected to the >>fuel source. Of course this may well be disinformation to discredit Joe X. I think it said that the fuel source (water cell) was disconnected from the DC source, not that the fuel source was disconnected from the engine. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 01:54:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA16032; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:48:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:48:34 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:49:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: Berkant Goeksel X-Sender: aybchgdj@hercules.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Run Your Car Without Gasoline - Nexus article minus pix In-Reply-To: <008401bddbc4$8d3b7940$67c5efd1@thomas> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZDJUk.0.Pw3.X3azr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6227 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Thomas and All! does anyone read about AquaFuel[TM] A Combustible Gas from Water. The website location is http://toupstech.com/aquafuel. The work is supported by Prof. Dr. Ruggero Maria Santilli who is president of the Institute for Basic Research (http://home1.gte.net/ibr/). AquaFuel is produced during an electric discharge across an arc between carbon electrodes immersed in distilled, fresh or salt water. I don't know whether o/u effects are involved or not. But why not? I would be glad about references, reports etc. on all kind of water fuel cells. Maybe there is someone on the list who almost did some experiments and would like to share results. Thank you in advance. Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 01:54:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA17325; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:53:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:53:54 -0700 Message-ID: <00f501bddbcf$4be73a00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Back to Basics Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:25:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"zMJYy3.0.WE4.X8azr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6229 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee and All -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland >Great: Now explain how pounding it with a hammer can produce a magnet, >within the confines of current thinking. I've already got an explanation it >has to do with bunching up electrons. Want to think about it? My guess would be this. Pounding one end of a piece of steel would align/disorder the magnetic domains at that end more than the other end. Although I don't know which, I'd go for align if pushed. Wrought iron (hammered iron) has higher 'mu' (magnetic permeability) than the same unhammered iron. I can't magnetise a needle with a silk scarf though! Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 01:55:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA17304; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:53:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:53:52 -0700 Message-ID: <00f401bddbcf$4af31600$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Ohms Law Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:18:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"nu_YI2.0.AE4.W8azr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6228 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee, Ron and All >From the Longman English Dictionary "ampere /'ampea/ n the SI unit of electrical current equal to a constant current that when maintained in two straight parallel conductors of infinite length and negligible circular cross-section one metre apart in a vacuum produces between the conductors a force equal to 2 x 10 newton per metre of length [Andre Ampere], Andre Marie 1775-1836 French physicist and mathematician: made major discoveries in the field of electricity and magnetism." I wasn't that far off :-) Dictionaries are more useful than I thought! Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland >Posted by Lee Markland: >> >>By the book, an ampere is defined as one volt across one ohm of resistance >>causes a current flow of one ampere.. >> >>Ron >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 01:57:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA17380; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:53:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:53:58 -0700 Message-ID: <00f701bddbcf$4d895140$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Natural Selection Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:52:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"2T0Pf.0.PF4.a8azr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6230 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee and All -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland >But as regards wild game and early man. I don't think size alone explains >it, because lions, tigers and bears take down game many times their size. >Perhaps the "fear" of animals is learned by man. Dogs are socialized >creatures, but in packs they have been known to attack humans, especially >when hungry. Tigers take down humans all the time in India and Lions do the >same in Africa. My little Samantha, weighs about 6 pounds, took down a huge >pheasant last year, dragged it home as proud as can be. Use to have a >little grey alley cat when I was 15 and it brought home a rabbit twice its >size. True. Perhaps I should have said 'other predator'. Lions and tigers only tend to become man-eaters if they cannot catch/find other food sources. Did you know that 'domestic cats' (used loosely) are also social animals, although they hunt alone. They seem to be social without good reason. I have seen large groups of 'domestic cats' of perhaps thirty to forty animals. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 02:04:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA20457; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:57:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:57:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:57:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: Berkant Goeksel X-Sender: aybchgdj@hercules.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: Thomas Spellman Subject: Re: Run Your Car Without Gasoline - Nexus article minus pix (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"sVBCU2.0.O_4.iBazr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6231 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Thomas and All! does anyone read about AquaFuel[TM] A Combustible Gas from Water. The website location is http://toupstech.com/aquafuel. The work is supported by Prof. Dr. Ruggero Maria Santilli who is president of the Institute for Basic Research (http://home1.gte.net/ibr/). AquaFuel is produced during an electric discharge across an arc between carbon electrodes immersed in distilled, fresh or salt water. I don't know whether o/u effects are involved or not. But why not? I would be glad about references, reports etc. on all kind of water fuel cells. Maybe there is someone on the list who almost did some experiments and would like to share results. Thank you in advance. Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 02:41:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA27177; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 02:37:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 02:37:46 -0700 Message-ID: <002b01bddbd5$cbfe4e80$af4b4a0c@dialup.csn.net> From: "Chris Malcheski" To: Subject: Re: McGwire /USA President/ and people in general Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 03:39:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"K1olk2.0.Re6.gnazr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6232 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Steve, McGwire's 62nd is completely irrelevant, IMHO. He needed drugs to do it. Big deal. Maris did it without steroids. -- Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 03:46:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA05168; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 03:43:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 03:43:59 -0700 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Car powered by water gas experiment Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 10:44:38 GMT Message-ID: <35f75b2c.42476978@mail.zip.com.au> References: <007201bdd9dc$ce8fb940$95faf0cf@default> In-Reply-To: <007201bdd9dc$ce8fb940$95faf0cf@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id DAA05151 Resent-Message-ID: <"athgr2.0.gG1.klbzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6233 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 14:23:24 -0700, "mrand@access" wrote: >>Was this done after the engine was running with the water cell? >Yes, Joe said that some of the engines needed several days to completely run >on the water gas. The sequence was connecting the cell to the engine >running on gasoline and over time the timing would change and then the >gasoline would be cut off completely and then the car would be powered only >by the water gas. Each car was different. So, what you are saying then, is that the timing has to be tweaked gradually over the several days for optimum performance, then at the end of the process the petrol can be cut off and that thereafter the engine can be started and will operate solely on the "Joe Cell"? Cheers, Alan (eagerly awaiting the arrival of my copy of the booklet and video) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 05:19:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA27253; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 05:18:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 05:18:24 -0700 Message-ID: <002e01bddbec$2e749900$8cfaf0cf@default> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: Car powered by water gas experiment Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 05:19:03 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"ySr9O3.0.gf6.F8dzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6234 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: Alan Schneider [snip] >>gasoline would be cut off completely and then the car would be powered only >>by the water gas. Each car was different. > >So, what you are saying then, is that the timing has to be >tweaked gradually over the several days for optimum performance, >then at the end of the process the petrol can be cut off and that >thereafter the engine can be started and will operate solely on >the "Joe Cell"? Yes, that is the process. It was also found that the same process was required when converting back to petrol, several days of tweaking the timing were required to bring the engine back on total petrol input fuel. Joe calls this process "charging" the engine with the positive energy coming from the water cell. Conventional H2/O2 researchers needed to understand this different form of energy and not the electrolysis of water but the energy that water cell attracted, some call it orgone energy, ZPE etc... Other water gas researchers trying to fuel cars on the H/O gases, using acid/base electrolyte and lots of amperage could not make their car run. This orgone energy is attracted to water and can be channeled to the car engine by metal pipes. Joe found that clear plastic pipes tended to corrode over time. >Cheers, >Alan >(eagerly awaiting the arrival of my copy of the booklet and video) > You'll like it :-) Regards, Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 06:41:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA17736; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:38:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:38:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199809091339.JAA18431@transfer.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Wed, 09 Sep 98 09:31:15 -0300 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <19980908.211907.12166.3.tv@juno.com> Subject: Re: Cooling Effect and TEC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.40 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"PbBPE.0.sK4.3Jezr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6235 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In <19980908.211907.12166.3.tv@juno.com>, on 09/08/98 at 09:11 PM, tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) said: >The last idea does not make sense to me. Where does the heat move to ? >Peltier effect moves heat across a junction. Why must the heat move somewhere? If an electron slows down wouldn't it absorb heat and store it as potential energy? -Charlie- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 09:09:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07525; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:01:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:01:18 -0700 From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:01:43 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Resent-Message-ID: <"5K4Bl.0.Pr1.EPgzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6236 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-09-08 16:46:26 EDT, you write: << Well the only thing I have is a link to a friends webpage. Neil Freer, he has authored a book Breaking the Godspell, and is either in contact with or knows how to access Dave Hudson. Try: http://www.concentric.net/~freer1 >> Try this page will give you a lot of info on Dave and what is white gold : http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/2010/home.htm Ron From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 09:10:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07712; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:01:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:01:46 -0700 From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: <28bf0284.35f6a66f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:01:51 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Lunar Water: Where did it go - a Hypotheses Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Resent-Message-ID: <"6OIIV.0.Pu1.ePgzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6237 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-09-08 16:46:26 EDT, you write: << Well the only thing I have is a link to a friends webpage. Neil Freer, he has authored a book Breaking the Godspell, and is either in contact with or knows how to access Dave Hudson. Try: http://www.concentric.net/~freer1 >> Try this page will give you a lot of info on Dave and what is white gold : http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/2010/home.htm Ron From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 11:54:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21918; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:51:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:51:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980910031119.008f1310@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 03:11:19 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980909070918.00b37cc0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"uMd4n2.0.HM5.-uizr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6238 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:05 AM 9/9/98 +0200, you wrote: > >Hi All ! > >What about the theory that magnetism is caused by so called electron spin >polarization? I only know the term. But sounds much like the intuitive >approach of Lee. Maybe someone can help and explain electron and maybe >also nucleus spin polarization. Last action is sometimes related to >gravity forces (Henry Wallace, Ning Li etc.). I recommend a recent >article by Robert Stirniman on this topic. You can find the paper at Pete >Skeggs' homepage. My favorite links (growing!) are listed at >http://www.physik.tu-berlin.de/~bgoeksel/propulsion/propul2.html. > >Best regards, >Berkant Well, well Hi there Berkant, Good to see you. By the way loved your web page, interesting work you are doing, interesting paper to. Shall we drop stuff on these folk about Rolf Schaffranke and others. Guys it's worth the trip to check out Berkants website. Interesting articles there. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 11:55:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22045; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:52:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:52:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980910034021.008f5100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 03:40:21 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: RE:what is wrong with lee? In-Reply-To: <002801bddbbb$a5eecd60$954668cf@gratnsue> References: <3.0.5.32.19980909070918.00b37cc0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"325Ng2.0.HO5.Gvizr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6239 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:27 PM 9/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >lee, I believe you are stuck up the wrong tree. > >listen lee you said this: > >?Magnetism is simply an overcharged piece of matter now if you can >?tentatively accept that possible explanation and then start asking the >?right questions from that premise, where will it take you. > >bob said this; > >>If it were due to electrons, we could block a magnetic field with tin >>foil, as >>tin foil is a good electrostatic shield, but a poor magnetic shield. >> > >this is true and can be demonstrated. >can you not see the simple truth? >I guess not because > >you replied; > >?Aha, but again current thinking, and current thinking has so overly >?complicated what in all likelihood are rather simplistic issues. >? >?I've thrown out a couple of theories, that cut like Occam's Razor to the >?quick. However the "current thinking" has so convoluted reality that it has >?become incomprehensible and complex that it is unreal and does not describe >?reality. > >your 'theories' are based on nothing but your belief in them. you refuse to >see reality. the reality is that water does not have to be liquid and >aluminum foil will>not block a magnet. Outside of the denigration and hostility evident. Pray tell - when is water not a liquid. Explain that to poor stupid me. And where did I say that aluminum foil will block a magnet. I didn't say that at all. In fact before I posted my last response I was sitting here playing with a magnet and aluminum foil. And finally I don't have beliefs, dear Sir. I am merely questioning beliefs. > > you cannot say they do and then "POOF" they magically do. sorry but that >only works in neverland ranch. What I have said is that this "atomic" theory of magnetism cannot be proven either, it is only a theory. > >the worst part is your attitude of self-righteousness and projecting your >clinging to unsound science onto your retractors. you need help. > >sorry for butting in but this bothers me. > >stupidity bothers me. And look who throws around Self Righteousness, judging by your hostility I think the hand that points its finger at me, has three fingers pointing back at them. How dare you resort to such ad hominems and scurrilous attacks. Who is being self righteous? Sounds like you more than be, and as regards unsound science. Metaphysics is unsound science. "All motion requires a current force and a current force requires a physical process" - What could be more sound than that? You shame yourself sir. Lee Markland From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 12:00:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24887; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:57:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:57:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980910035013.008f3100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 03:50:13 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Water Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"NMCx63.0.k46.h-izr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6240 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Could somebody please explain to stupid, stuck up the wrong tree me, how water can exist on the surface of a body in the prescence of heat, and an atmosphere hundreds or thousands time that of Earth. If it isn't liquid, it isn't water. It can't be Ice And it can't be gas, because the planet (Jupiter) is suppose to be mainly helium and hydrogen - a failed star. So how can water be water and not be a liquid. I'm always ready for enlightment and real education (besides unproven and unprovable theory that is). Stupid, stuck up the wrong tree. Lee :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 12:18:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00073; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:14:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:14:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199809091915.PAA02537@transfer.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Wed, 09 Sep 98 15:03:33 -0300 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980910035013.008f3100@rockisland.com> Subject: Re: Water Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.40 (Unregistered) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id MAA32695 Resent-Message-ID: <"WbWt5.0.U.wDjzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6241 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In <3.0.5.32.19980910035013.008f3100@rockisland.com>, on 09/10/98 at 03:50 AM, Lee Markland said: >Could somebody please explain to stupid, stuck up the wrong tree me, how >water can exist on the surface of a body in the prescence of heat, and an >atmosphere hundreds or thousands time that of Earth. The melting/boiling points that we are used to , 0° C and 100° C repectively, are for what is refered to as STP: Standard Tempature and Pressure (well at least pressure in this case). Gas (water vapour) can be forced into a liquid (water) or solid (ice) with the right amount of atmospheric pressure. Just think of the the bottled gas for your BBQ grill. There's liquid in there, since it's under a lot of pressure. I've been outta school too long to offer a better explanation. -Charlie- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 12:27:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08149; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:23:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:23:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199809091924.PAA02931@transfer.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Wed, 09 Sep 98 15:17:31 -0300 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980909094351.00b5d800@rockisland.com> Subject: Re: Common Sense Physics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.40 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"eaH3G1.0.A_1.aMjzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6242 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In <3.0.5.32.19980909094351.00b5d800@rockisland.com>, on 09/09/98 at 09:43 AM, Lee Markland said: >All motion requires a current force Current as in continuous? (i.e. remove the force and it stops?) >Result of our arrogance and ignorance: We don't look for answers because >we think we have all the answers. >And because we think we have all the answers, new observations result in >more occult and bizarre explanations. Very good! Question everything. Truth is Beauty. Today's Physics is soooooo ugly it must be false. -Charlie- P.S. I think some of out basic mathmatical premises concerning negative and imaginary numbers is wrong as well. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 14:59:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02401; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:55:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:55:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19960110040004.008f5500@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 04:00:04 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <00f501bddbcf$4be73a00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"uuS0f2.0.Kb.Dblzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6243 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:25 AM 9/9/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee and All > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland > >>Great: Now explain how pounding it with a hammer can produce a magnet, >>within the confines of current thinking. I've already got an explanation it >>has to do with bunching up electrons. Want to think about it? > > >My guess would be this. Pounding one end of a piece of steel would >align/disorder the magnetic domains at that end more than the other end. >Although I don't know which, I'd go for align if pushed. What are magnetic domains? How do we know they exist? Are they just another concept devised to explain a phenomenon? Or are they perhaps a concept we developed to explain a phenomenon that has other causes. > >Wrought iron (hammered iron) has higher 'mu' (magnetic permeability) than >the same unhammered iron. > >I can't magnetise a needle with a silk scarf though! Try to set it on a floating leaf or something lite and put it in water and see if it points towards North. Learned it in Scouts and it worked then. Lee > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 15:00:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02436; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:55:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:55:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980910040749.00b56e80@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 04:07:49 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Natural Selection In-Reply-To: <00f701bddbcf$4d895140$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"f8gC-.0.mb.Gblzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6244 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:52 AM 9/9/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee and All > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >>But as regards wild game and early man. I don't think size alone explains >>it, because lions, tigers and bears take down game many times their size. >>Perhaps the "fear" of animals is learned by man. Dogs are socialized >>creatures, but in packs they have been known to attack humans, especially >>when hungry. Tigers take down humans all the time in India and Lions do the >>same in Africa. My little Samantha, weighs about 6 pounds, took down a huge >>pheasant last year, dragged it home as proud as can be. Use to have a >>little grey alley cat when I was 15 and it brought home a rabbit twice its >>size. > > >True. Perhaps I should have said 'other predator'. Lions and tigers only >tend to become man-eaters if they cannot catch/find other food sources. Did >you know that 'domestic cats' (used loosely) are also social animals, >although they hunt alone. They seem to be social without good reason. I >have seen large groups of 'domestic cats' of perhaps thirty to forty >animals. > >Best regards > >David Callaghan The phrase - without good reason - is perhaps a cue or clue. Domestic cats are also the only cats that purr and the only animal that communicate verbally with man. (Oh dogs bark, I don't mean that) but any cat owner will tell you that Cats have a range of verbal communication skills and are effective at communicating their needs and fears to humans. Also Wild cats are not pack animals, and the rare cases where lionness and Cheetahs do work and hunt together, the situation is driven by need and the "pack" is always related to the mother. Maybe perhaps, there is another reason for the sudden appearance of Cro Magnon, about 100,000 years ago (if those estimates are at all correct). Of course we will never know anything for sure, we can't. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 15:02:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02938; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:56:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:56:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980910063452.00b723c0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 06:34:52 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <002d01bdd9fe$8f10b7c0$0a1262d1@lpatterson> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZSLpu1.0.cj._blzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6246 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:26 AM 9/7/98 -0000, you wrote: > >The reason for this question is that we supposedly have PERM magnets and >TEMP magnets.. if electrons are the cause of the magnetizm, and you have to >PAY these back.. then how could you make temp magnets from a perm magnet >without having your perm magnet eventualy DIE on you? > >Just curious =) > Larry > Aka: Axehandler Good question but it applies to all other theories of magnetism as well. Lee Markland From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 15:04:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04035; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:58:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:58:40 -0700 Message-ID: <35F7FC34.4772@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:20:04 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ohms Law References: <199809080623.XAA21432@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-JDRn.0.S-.Delzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6247 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi there Dave! Sorry, I've been a bit tied up. You wrote: > > > >There are many practical and experimental ways to test this most basic > >assumption of Ohm's Law. For example, that it is the electrical current (as > >envisaged in Ohm's law), that is the prime causal agent in the formation of a > >magnetic field around an electrical conductor. Simple experimental evidence > >and a close examination of this phenomena shows that this assumption is > >clearly, patently, and provably incorrect! > > Can you describe these simple experiments? > OK. For starters, how about we take 1000 metres of 2 mm wire (it's 25 degrees C so it has a resistance of about 5.61 ohms per 1000 metres), and wind it onto a coil former with a circumference of 1 metre. Grab a supply source of some sort (a battery?) that has an internal resistance of anywhere and somewhere between say 6 ohms and .06 ohms and an open circuit voltage of around 12 volts. Connect it to the inductor. After L/R, what is the current in amperes, the field strength in Oersteds, and the power in watts? Let's grap some more 2 mm wire, but 2000 metres this time, and wind another coil on the same size former, same length, but in two layers which doesn't alter the diameter significantly. After L/R, what is the current in amperes, the field in Oersteds, and the power in watts? By the way, what is the voltage across the inductor in the two different cases? But let's not waste time actually doing the experiment. What would conventional understanding tell us to expect? Regards, Stuart -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 15:04:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04164; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:58:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:58:47 -0700 Message-ID: <35F7F409.13BE@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:45:13 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ohms Law References: <00f401bddbcf$4af31600$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ysRzj3.0.P01.Lelzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6249 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi David! > > >From the Longman English Dictionary > > "ampere /'ampea/ n the SI unit of electrical current equal to a constant > current that when maintained in two straight parallel conductors of infinite > length and negligible circular cross-section one metre apart in a vacuum > produces between the conductors a force equal to 2 x 10 newton per metre of > length [Andre Ampere], Andre Marie 1775-1836 French physicist and > mathematician: made major discoveries in the field of electricity and > magnetism." > Hey, that's great.....:-) That sounds like a really cool experiment. As soon as I can afford to buy some extra wire, I'll try it!....:-) But isn't there a bit of a problem here. If this theory is right, and the electrons are bunny-hopping from atom to atom, down the two wires, a metre apart, how do they push each other aside? Do they have access to some kind of magical force, throw things at each other, or just have very long elbows? No, I'm not being nasty or poking fun David.......:-) I REALLY DO want to know!....:-) Regards, Stuart -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 15:05:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02580; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:55:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:55:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980910041201.008f5120@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 04:12:01 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: ForeignCorrespondent SUMMIT OF THE DOOMED Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"TE5H71.0.4e.Mblzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6245 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Foreign Correspondent Inside Track On World News By International Syndicated Columnist & Broadcaster Eric Margolis SUMMIT OF THE DOOMED By Eric Margolis 7 Sept 1998 The lugubrious get-together held in Moscow last week was billed as a summit between the world's two greatest powers. Instead, it turned out to be a group therapy support session for two stricken leaders whose time seems to be fast running out, and a wake over the fast-decomposing corpse of `capitalist Russia.' An embarrassingly addelpated Boris Yeltsin mumbled incoherent statements, eerily resembling the late, befuddled, steroid-laced Soviet leader, Leonid Brezhnev. Karl Marx, meet the Marx Brothers. Fibber-in-Chief Bill Clinton, looking exhausted, morose, squirming in misery as reporters kept asking him about his tacky sex life. On Arbat Street, Moscow's Greenwich Village, hawkers were selling Monika Lewinsky dolls. Comic and pathetic, the utterly empty summit recalled the black farces of Gogol. It almost made one yearn for the Cold War. American taxpayers should be furious Clinton wasted tens of millions of dollars on a absurdly expensive junket whose only objective was to get him the hell out of Washington. While Clinton and Yeltsin were making fools of themselves, outside the Kremlin's walls, Weimar Russia was collapsing. In fact, Clinton arrived in Moscow to find Russia without a government, Yeltsin's nominee for prime minister, the stolid Viktor Chernomyrdin, having just been rejected by the Communist-dominated Duma, or parliament. The ruble hit a new low, banks went insolvent, panicky Russians saw their savings disappear. Though Russia's economy is smaller than that of Holland - or Ontario, for that matter - Moscow's repudiation of its debts has rocked world markets. The west has loaned Russia over US $200 BILLION since 1991. Half is owed to the US government, IMF, and other institutions. The rest, to European and American banks. German banks, the biggest holder of Russian debt, are facing a financial Stalingrad: $52 billion of losses. We have just witnessed the biggest theft in modern history. At least half of the $200 billion poured into Russia to bankroll Yeltsin's regime, has been was stolen outright, as this column has been reporting for years, and secreted in Switzerland, Monaco, Cyprus and the Bahamas. The thieves were Russia's seven super tycoons, bankers, politicians, and, of course, the mafia, which controls 60% of all business. The west - led by President Clinton - simply closed its eyes to Moscow's Ali Babas - and continued the charade that Yeltsin's Russia was a worthy, emerging democracy, with a budding middle class, and market capitalist system. To keep the crisp, new US $100 bills coming, Russia's ruling elite - probably no more than 2,000 people - kept assuring the gullible Clinton Administration, blockheaded bankers, and credulous journalists, they were were privatizing, democratizing, and MacDonaldizing. In May, I wrote from Moscow, ``the `new' Russia is a weird hybrid of dying communism, Asiatic bureaucracy, and gangster capitalism -with a thin veneer of western consumer culture. I don't think this unnatural state will long survive: it defies the character of Russia and the laws of gravity.' An explosion was coming, I predicted. Twelve weeks later, Yeltsin's Potemkin Village finally came crashing down. Russia's economy went into free-fall, threatening hyper-inflation and massive food shortages. Ironically, `capitalist' Russia inflicted more damage on the world capitalist system than the old Soviet Union had ever managed. The west cut off transfusions of life-sustaining money. Long-suffering Russians gnashed their teeth in fury and humiliation at the plight of their once great nation, which had become the Sick Man of Europe, a grim parody of the collapsing Ottoman Empire, a century ago. Today, as for the past eight years, no one is really in charge of Russia. Most Russians understand communism was a disastrous, bloody failure; in spite of nostalgia for the old days, only a minority wants to return to the Soviet system. The plundering of Russia by gangsters, bankers and business tycoons - what the western media mistakenly calls `democracy' - is nearing an end. At least the robber tycoons of the Russian Klondike didn't murder 40 million people, as Lenin and Stalin did. Russians passionately crave strong, honest leadership, an end to gangsterism, a return to social order and national pride. But from where will this come? One solution is an unstable alliance between tycoons, bureaucrats, and communists, who are still the nation's single largest party, that will bring back closed markets, central planning, and make the ruble unconvertible. Order will be restored, but so will the woes of the old Soviet Union: shortages, shoddy goods, industrial backwardness, a police state. Meanwhile, the seven big tycoons, described by Russians as `richer than God,' are jostling to back maverick, retired paratroop general, Alexander Lebed, who is running for president in 2000. The gravel-voiced general is highly popular, particularly with Russian women, who find him physically appealing. Lebed's role-models are generals Park Chung-hee and Agusto Pinochet, the military strongmen who transformed South Korea and Chile into economic miracles by bankrolling successful industries, and breaking the power of marxist unions. Lebed's strong dictatorial streak, narrow mind, and simplistic solutions, appeal to many authority-craving Russians. Russia's far-right, a crazy-quilt of Czarists, religious maniacs, bodybuilders, skinheads, nazis and fascists, is gaining strength, though leadership still lacks. No one takes the clown Zhirinovsky seriously. Anti-semitism is surging, as Russians blame the mostly Jewish seven super-tycoons, led by Boris Berezovsky, for their plight. Russians, like Ottoman Turks of the past, have traditionally little understanding of money. The main money-men of the old Soviet Union, like today's Russia, are Jews and Armenians - the same role they played, along with Greeks, in the Ottoman Empire. Russian xenophobes claim Jewish money from abroad is buying up bankrupt Russian industry. Welcome to Germany, 1932. A military coup by active generals is also likely, particularly if Yeltsin and the Duma end up trying to fire one another in coming weeks. But Russia's brass have no idea how to solve economic problems and are unsure of the loyalty of key units. The ex-KGB, and the Interior Ministry, whose forces now equal the army in numbers, are also power centers that would play a key role in any coup. Lebed keeps warning the soldiers are in a dangerous mood. Meanwhile, the Russian Federation that spans 12 time zones is continuing to destabilize. Remote, resource-rich regions, such as Tatarstan, Bashkiria, Yakutia, and Udmurtia, have declared political and economic autonomy from Moscow, and are dealing directly with the outside world. The Caucasus , principally Dagestan, is in turmoil, as the region's long oppressed Muslims seek to emulate heroic, little Chechnya(Ishkiria) by throwing off Russian colonial rule. In one of the darkest blots ever on America's honor, President Clinton, while fulminating against Islamic terrorists, actually gave Yeltsin's $500 million to finance crushing the independent struggle in Chechnya, in which 100,000 Muslim civilians were slaughtered by Russia forces. Clinton very likely supplied electronic gear that allowed the Russians to assassinate Chechen leader, Dzhokar Dudayev - and had the gall to compare Yeltsin to Abraham Lincoln. Civil strife, or even civil war, is also possible. But powerful inertia holds Russia and Russians together. They have few ideological choices. Communism is bankrupt; fascism frightening. A real, free market capitalist system is impossible without clear laws, private ownership, free press, thinking middle class, and honest government that maintains order and enforces rules for all. Russia has none of the above. It remains, as was said of Stalin, half-man, half beast. Half-European, half-Asiatic; half-modern, half-primitive. Just as Prince Potemkin's efforts to Europeanize Russia failed, so have those of Boris Yeltsin's and his foreign backers. Bill Clinton's Russian policy, driven by ignorance, half-baked notions, and plain naivete, has been a catastrophic, hugely expensive failure. To paraphrase Churchill, Russia is a gigantic mess, rolled up in a calamity. Copyright eric margolis 1998 **************************************************************************** **** **************************************************************************** **** --------------------------------------------------------------- To receive Foreign Correspondent via email send a note to majordomo@foreigncorrespondent.com with the message in the body: subscribe foreignc To get off the list, send to the same address but write: unsubscribe foreignc WWW: www.bigeye.com/foreignc.htm For Syndication Information please contact: Email: margolis@foreigncorrespondent.com FAX: (416) 960-4803 Smail: Eric Margolis c/o Editorial Department The Toronto Sun 333 King St. East Toronto Ontario Canada M5A 3X5 --------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 15:12:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04062; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:58:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:58:41 -0700 Message-ID: <35F801AD.4E40@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:43:25 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Questions on Newman's motor References: <178abc0c.35f42560@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0DWPd2.0.p-.Eelzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6248 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi there again Jean-Louis! You said (with a lot of 'snips'): > > HIGHER the POTENTIAL, HIGHER the NEGATIVE POWER tapped....... > > > The main effect occur ONLY with long wire coil, if the resistance > of the coil is high, this change the time constant of the circuit. > > GREATER THE NUMBER of STEPS (Broken flow) DURING THE CHARGING > PHASE of the "collector", GREATER the efficiency..... > > The use of HV vacuum triode will by better for avoiding this or > some special vacuum spark gap swichers. > > the coil (long and thin wire) design is also very important > (due to the relaxation time of the electrons in the coil) > This REALLY IS MAGICAL STUFF. Not the sort of mystical magical mumbo jumbo muttered in conventional 'science'. Congratulations, and thank you Jean-Louis for making this experimental information so readily available to us all. And my sincere best wishes to you in your further experimental research. For anyone who didn't quite get the point, here are today's crossword puzzle clues: DOWN: (1) Sparks (2) Lots of copper (3) Magnetic field (4) Very high voltage (5) Relaxation time ACROSS: (1) Very short sharp pulse (2) Electrons..?? (3) Magnetic moments..?? (4) A very fast switch (5) WHAM !!! Be careful, Regards, Stuart -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 15:29:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19185; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:25:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:25:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:26:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980909110028.00b20c50@rockisland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"k8uC8.0.gh4.51mzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6250 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Lee Markland wrote: >> Can you PROVE that. Can you prove that tapping aligns to the external >> applied field? Good question. I know that tapping will magnetize an nail or needle, but the question then is what is happening. I don't think you or anyone else can prove that it is aligning the internal magnetic field. First of all there is no "internal" magnetic field prior to the tapping. So as to what happens after it is tapped becomes a matter of opinion (otherwise known as theory, hypotheses, speculation). ------------ Hi All, Whomever is going to do the tapping should use 2 needles or nails... Have one facing N/S the other E/W as it were. If the E/W fails to magnatize through-out its length.. Then indeed you've proved the electrons are -not- smushed together.. If the N/S (and I'm sure it will, as I did this as a boy scout myself), magnetizes it would prove there *IS* a N/S force Field internal to the earth, (course we already knew that:) What it is, why it is, cannot be proven here. oh: a trick after pounding: 'float' them on a piece of paper or cork in a bowl of water to reduce friction on pointing alignment. Even after 200 whacks, the force is still very very weak... may take upto a minute or two to fully observe. The pins will not have enough strength to pick up but the smallest of metal fillings. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 16:11:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01715; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:05:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:05:05 -0700 Message-ID: <35F731DA.9D8@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 18:56:42 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Back to Basics References: <3.0.5.32.19960110040004.008f5500@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YAI2n1.0.iQ.Wcmzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6251 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > What are magnetic domains? How do we know they exist? Are they just another > concept devised to explain a phenomenon? Or are they perhaps a concept we > developed to explain a phenomenon that has other causes. Magnetic domains do indeed exist, and in some materials they are actually visible to the human eye! They are not the result of calculations and theory. They were discovered rather than invented by the minds of mankind. Lee, from your earlier responses it seems clear that you do not accept a great deal of experimental evidence as fact, and have suggested that many things cannot be 'proven'. The list rules for freenrg-l are fairly clear in making a distinction between pure theory and experimental data. I have offered to try to work through the differences in our points of view experimentally, and asked what would satisfy you as proof. As it appears that no combination of evidence and reasoning will meet your demands, I have to ask why you feel freenrg-l is an appropriate venue to discuss your views if you are unwilling to accept evidence? Asking questions is one thing, its clearly appropriate. Dismissing experimental evidence as theory alone, without being well read on the specifics of what you dismiss will clearly irritate many readers here. There are other venues that do not make the clear distinction between theory and evidence that Bill has set out in the list rules. Often these other venues welcome pure theory, speculation, or any ideas that challanges 'accepted' theory. Here we have a stated dedication to emperical evidence. It seems that no evidence what so ever will meet with your standards of proof. If that is true, then I respectfully suggest that you might enjoy other venues much more than freenrg-l. It seems, in my opinion, that rather than ask questions in a genuine effort to understand another view point, you prefer to try to dismiss experimental data with arguments and ideas that do not fit actual data. Please review this lists rules. Don't expect people here to change their views based on discussion alone. You cannot take known experimental results and use them to disprove accepted physics. To disprove the textbooks, you need to supply evidence that is not in the books, something new that accepted physics fails to describe as it happens in actual experiments. So far, you have not provided new evidence. You seem to suggest that you will not accept that the evidence already in existance supports conventional physics, so within the list rules, what can we accomplish here? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 16:14:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03622; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:10:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:10:58 -0700 Message-ID: <35F732A4.6D6A@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 19:02:37 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ForeignCorrespondent SUMMIT OF THE DOOMED References: <3.0.5.32.19980910041201.008f5120@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wpH9i1.0.Ru.1imzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6252 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > Foreign Correspondent > > Inside Track On World News > By International Syndicated Columnist & Broadcaster > Eric Margolis > > SUMMIT OF THE DOOMED > By > Eric Margolis 7 Sept 1998 This is way off topic, I object to this. Please do not post material not relevent to free energy to this list. This is pure SPAM here. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 16:29:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10129; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:24:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:24:30 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980910071331.00796100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:13:31 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Water In-Reply-To: <199809091915.PAA02537@transfer.stratus.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980910035013.008f3100@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA10099 Resent-Message-ID: <"Lz3AQ3.0.BU2.jumzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6253 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:03 PM 9/9/98 -0300, you wrote: >In <3.0.5.32.19980910035013.008f3100@rockisland.com>, on 09/10/98 > at 03:50 AM, Lee Markland said: > >>Could somebody please explain to stupid, stuck up the wrong tree me, how >>water can exist on the surface of a body in the prescence of heat, and an >>atmosphere hundreds or thousands time that of Earth. > >The melting/boiling points that we are used to , 0° C and 100° C >repectively, are for what is refered to as STP: Standard Tempature and >Pressure (well at least pressure in this case). Gas (water vapour) can be >forced into a liquid (water) or solid (ice) with the right amount of >atmospheric pressure. Thanks, but when I extrapolate that to Jupiter, and consider not only its atmospheric pressure but its INTENSE HEAT and LACKING a containment bottle to isolate the water as in the propane. I don't see how one can have liquid water in such an environment, and if it ain't liquid it ain't water. Lee Markland > >Just think of the the bottled gas for your BBQ grill. There's liquid in >there, since it's under a lot of pressure. > >I've been outta school too long to offer a better explanation. > >-Charlie- > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 16:32:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11527; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:27:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:27:21 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:28:23 +0200 (MET DST) From: Berkant Goeksel X-Sender: aybchgdj@hercules.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: On the Way to Quantum Gravity? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"o7TZv.0.yp2.Oxmzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6254 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All ! Everyone interested in possible inconsistencies of the principle of general relativity should have a look to the very recent paper by Prof. Borzeszkowski, Institute of Theoretical Physics, Berlin University of Technology. He is one of the leading experts in Einstein readings etc. (Warnings! Your belief could be damaged.-) ) You can download the paper in the present Apeiron Journal issue at http://www.vif.com/users/apeiron/. Some quotations: 'In other words, the principle of general relativity and quantum gravity are incompatible. Thus, if one wants to arrive at quantum gravity, then one should give up the principle of general relativity, after all.' (p.145) 'In reading Einstein's papers and notes made for himself in their context one sees that the ansatzes of 1913 and 1914 which, estimated from the viewpoint of the final formulation of GRT, appear as mathematically still incorrect had also a physical motivation whicht does not allow one to call them mathematically false. The material now generally accesible makes it obviously that Einstein's doubts about the form of the relativistic gravitational equations were also due to the fact that the physical content of the principle of general relativity was not clear.' 'The Einstein-Grossmann paper suggests that, under the assumption that the strong principle of equivalence holds, the theoretical realization of the Mach's principle and of the principle of general relativity are alternative programs. In other words, one wins the impression that only the former or latter program can be realized.' (p.146) 'One moral of the story is that general relativity conflicts with quantum gravity and Mach's principle. To see that this conflict, in both cases, arises for the same reason let us return to Einstein's "hole" consideration.' (p.147) 'So it becomes plausible that the gravitational field cannot be ascribed a local energy-momentum tensor.' (p.148) 'Our one point is that, if one is willing to accept Mach's principle accompanied by a loss of invariance, then such a Machian gravitational theory provides new perspective in quantization for this provides a framework which is much nearer to usual field theory than to GRT.' (p.148) 'According to the Einstein-Mayer theory of gravity, the energy-momentum density of gravitational fields is a measurable quantity, and thus, the quantization of this theory leads to a physically meaningful theory of quantum gravity. All this is due to the Machian properties of this theory such that measurable quantum effects here result as "Machian effects" with reference to the universe.' (p.148) 'So, "measurable gravitons" are in a similar sense a consequence of the Mach-Einstein "induction of inertia by cosmic gravity" as, according to Heisenberg's theory of a unified field (Heisenberg, 1967), the elementary particles with restmass. In both cases it is related to a cosmic breaking of certain symmetries.' (pp. 148-149) I find the paper very interesting. It fits good in my personal puzzle so far. I suppose the authors know about some forgotten unified field theories in the 40s, 50s. One famous work is quoted by Rolf Schaffranke. But I am not sure. Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 16:38:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13044; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:31:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:31:45 -0700 Message-ID: <35F7381A.3481@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 19:23:22 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ohms Law References: <199809080623.XAA21432@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <35F7FC34.4772@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aWktv.0.bB3.W_mzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6255 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stuart Rae wrote: > By the way, what is the voltage across the inductor in the two different > cases? Its a funny thing about batteries actually. I work with batteries every day and see many things like this. The two loads have different load resistances, and draw differing currents. Differing total current demands will cause a differing ammount of voltage drop across the internal resistance of the batteries of course.... But that internal resistance is NOT a constant in this case! The internal resistance of a battery, rechargable or primary, be it lead acid, copper zinc and a lemmon, or lithium polymer, varies in response to several factors (often different from each type of battery) one of which is the current demand placed on the cell. We can see this (sort of) in the way that batteries are rated. A rechargable battery may be rated at 10 amp-hours, but only at a given rate of discharge. If we discharge that bettery faster than its standard rate we will get fewer total amp-hours. Often if we discharge the battery slower than its standard rate, we also get fewer total amp hours of energy. In both cases, the ratio between the external source impedance and the changing internal impedances of the batteries is at work here. This gets really complex when we pulse discharge and/or pulse charge a battery. We can often get FAR MORE energy out of the cell than we used to recharge that very same cell only moments ago. Is this extra energy free? No, when we do this we shorten the cycle life because we have consumed chemical energy from the electrolyte. In many cases, a 'dead' battery can be 'recharged' simply by drawing short, sharp spikes from the cell, lowering its intrernal impedance by a huge factor. Again, this energy is not free, nor is it new to the battery. We just unlocked stored chemical energy. This little trick shows up very often in free energy claims. There was a rumbling some years back about a radical new technology that would double the capacity of an existing laptop computers battery. The only problem was that the cycle life of the battery pack dropped to near zero (for a $200 Li-Ion pack, this is not an option!) and the heat produced would destroy the computer. Similar devices improve power efficiency by matching the source and load impedances. This is valid in some applications, but it never makes 'new' energy appear where it had not been before hand. > But let's not waste time actually doing the experiment. > > What would conventional understanding tell us to expect? You have not provided enough information to make an accurate prediction of a real world experiment yet. How is the battery going to respond to the differing load conditions? If you want to see an excellent example of a battery that can change its source impedance based on the applied load, try your basic nine volt battery. simple calculations assuming a fixed internal impedance will quickly fail to describe its real world behavior for completely conventional reasons. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 16:52:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22140; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:50:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:50:43 -0700 From: steve-nyeoka@juno.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Bob S. Message-ID: <19980909.195242.10039.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-14,16-17,19-20,23-25 Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 19:51:01 EDT Resent-Message-ID: <"a026G2.0.bP5.IHnzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6256 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >There are plans on Bill Beaty's Weird Science web page that detail the >construction of a working Scalar (non Hertzian wave) detector, and >test pulse generator. There is also a construction article on a device >called an Electrostatic Gradiometer. > >In addition, I have discussed the technical details of this and >related >technologies openly on freenrg-l for several years now, and also >responded to countless private posts and questions. > >I've made materials for my deigns available to interested builders and >helped get their devices up and running. > >Several sucessfuly builders are on this list now. (Ahem, guys?) > Bob's article "Notes on Scalar Detector Designs is very comprehensive. I only wish Bearden gaves such detail in some of his books! I can attest that Bob has been very helpful in answering questions for me. all I can say is too bad for the pissing contest, I for one was really looking forward to the TVQ book (I almost died when I found out the effort was dropped!!!) Steve _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 17:11:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27261; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:06:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:06:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980910085658.008e53c0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:56:58 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: ForeignCorrespondent SUMMIT OF THE DOOMED In-Reply-To: <35F732A4.6D6A@tiac.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980910041201.008f5120@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"e36gh.0.af6.eVnzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6258 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It was a mistake, I copied the wrong address and didn't double check it. Thanks for your correction, but you don't have to get so huffy and outraged. At 07:02 PM 9/9/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: >> >> Foreign Correspondent >> >> Inside Track On World News >> By International Syndicated Columnist & Broadcaster >> Eric Margolis >> >> SUMMIT OF THE DOOMED >> By >> Eric Margolis 7 Sept 1998 > > > > >This is way off topic, I object to this. > >Please do not post material not relevent to free energy to this list. >This is pure SPAM here. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 17:15:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA30622; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:10:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:10:49 -0700 Message-ID: <35F74141.6647@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 20:02:25 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ForeignCorrespondent SUMMIT OF THE DOOMED References: <3.0.5.32.19980910041201.008f5120@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980910085658.008e53c0@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Gvp083.0.CU7.7anzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6260 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > It was a mistake, I copied the wrong address and didn't double check it. > Thanks for your correction, but you don't have to get so huffy and outraged. Thank you Lee, Mistakes do happen! I've made far worse mistakes in addressing emails before. No problem. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 17:16:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA28978; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:09:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:09:19 -0700 Message-ID: <35F740E5.4A79@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 20:00:53 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bob S. References: <19980909.195242.10039.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"A5_Lw3.0.a47.kYnzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6259 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: steve-nyeoka@juno.com wrote: Thanks Steve! > all I can say is too bad for the pissing contest, I for one was really > looking forward to the TVQ book (I almost died when I found out the > effort was dropped!!!) > > Steve I'm really sorry to hear this. I know many people were looking forward to the publication. A great many things happened that stopped its publication, none of them good. One thing I should mention is that the initial interest that was shown on Keelynet was very encouraging, but when we approached the Tesla Book Company, we got very different numbers for its projected distribution. T.B.C wanted to do a plastic spiral bound book, printed on demand, while many contributors deeply felt that a real, bound book was more appropriate for the quality of their work. I agree, I hate plastic spiral binders, and for all their work, the contributors deserved a real, bound book. We were going to have it printed that way at our own expense, sure it would have cost a bit more, but you would get real value for the difference. This dropped the already low predicted distributon numbers even lower still. This was a contributing factor to the final choice not to publish, but not the major factor in my personal opinion. Publishing a book is a lot of work, and it should be a labor of love. When you have a number of people working together on such a project, its easy for somthing to come along and distrupt a collective effort. But I'm still here, willing to help if you have questions. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 17:19:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00413; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:14:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:14:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980910090644.008f8100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:06:44 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Who owns this list In-Reply-To: <35F731DA.9D8@tiac.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19960110040004.008f5500@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"mhWmV1.0.D6.udnzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6261 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is Bob Shannon the listowner here. I get continuous reminders of the list rules, admonishments, reprimands and an incessant diatribe of "talking down to". I don't think that this behavior is appropriate. If the listowner has something to say to me and disapproves of me rejecting "accepted" explanations as opposed to observed results(which I do accept), then I would expect private Email from the LISTOWNER. As I recall from my years of supervision and management, if I had something to say to a person I would pull them off in private. The only time one resorts to public displays of this sort is when one wishes to embarass someone in public. Unfortunately though what actually happens is the person winds up embarassing themselves. However public admonishments are in reality attempts at censorship. Maybe the problem is that I'm stirring some heresy, have to be careful of that. If Bob or anyone else is upset by what I say, then they can always set the filter on their EMail program or hit the delete key when they see my name in the inbox. I use both techniques and they work. Reminds me now. I have a filter to set. Lee Markland From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 17:19:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27073; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:05:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:05:42 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980910085106.008d6100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:51:06 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Back to Basics In-Reply-To: <35F731DA.9D8@tiac.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19960110040004.008f5500@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"rI7Xf2.0.wc6.LVnzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6257 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:56 PM 9/9/98 -0700, Bob Shannon wrote: >Magnetic domains do indeed exist, and in some materials they are >actually>visible to the human eye! They are not the result of calculations and >theory. >They were discovered rather than invented by the minds of mankind. > >Lee, from your earlier responses it seems clear that you do not accept a >great>deal of experimental evidence as fact, and have suggested that many >things>cannot be 'proven'. What I am saying Bob is that I don't reject experimental evidence. I am however questioning the interpretation of that evidence as stuff like "magnetic domains". A word incidentally that really tells us nothing, and you in fact admitted earlier that "magnetism was mysterious". You see the effect of magnetism, and lacking a conceptual basis otherwise, apply the name magnetic domains when in fact it could be something more familiar and appropriate. Guess you don't understand that. > >The list rules for freenrg-l are fairly clear in making a distinction >between pure theory and experimental data. I have offered to try to >work through the differences in our points of view experimentally, and >asked what would satisfy you as proof. Let's put it this way. When I hold a magnet under paper with filings I see action (experiment), but what to attribute that action to? Realignment of atoms? Squishing atoms? Magnetic domains? Electrons? All I am saying is that by making an empircal statement about what causes something, or giving a name to something that causes things to move, that is perhaps inappropriate and misleading does not do much to further science. You see magnetic domains. I see electrons. Cut a magnet at right angles with metal and you produce electricity. Cut an electric current at right angles with steel and you have a magnet. I see a connection there, if you don't. That connection doesn't seem to be some euphemistic and inexplicable "magnetic domains". >Dismissing experimental evidence as theory alone, without being well >read on the specifics of what you dismiss will clearly irritate many >readers here. Sorry Bob, you and a few others are irritated - quite obvious. But not all. AND I AM NOT DISMISSING EXPERIMENTAL EVIDENCE AS THEORY. I AM DISMISSING THE CONTRIVED EXPLANATIONS TO EXPLAIN THE EVIDENCE such as "magnetic domains". > >There are other venues that do not make the clear distinction between >theory and evidence that Bill has set out in the list rules. Often >these other venues welcome pure theory, speculation, or any ideas that >challanges 'accepted' theory. All I can say Bob, is that you avoid answering a lot of questions, but pick on the questions you think you can use to repudiate and ridicule, but most vexing of all it appears to me is that I call into question the basis of your own identity or theories "accepted or conventional theories of physics", now that is enough to make anyone irritated c'est nes pas? > >Here we have a stated dedication to emperical evidence. It seems that >no evidence what so ever will meet with your standards of proof. If >that is true, then I respectfully suggest that you might enjoy other >venues much more than freenrg-l. I'll let the list owner decide that thank you. Your suggestion is not appreciated nor solicited. I am not responsible for your discomfort. >It seems, in my opinion, that rather than ask questions in a genuine >effort to understand another view point, you prefer to try to dismiss >experimental data with arguments and ideas that do not fit actual data. AGAIN I DON'T DISMISS EXPERIMENTAL DATA, that is a strawmen that you are setting up. I dismiss the assumptions and theories behind SOME, not all, OF THIS DATA AS TO THEIR NOMINATIVE CAUSES. >Please review this lists rules. Thank you Mr. Monitor. I choose however not to recognize your authority, and I apologize to the list if I am appearing hostile. But I don't think I need to be talked down or anwered with non-sequiturs, sophisty or apparently purposeful misinterpretations of my responses. > >Don't expect people here to change their views based on discussion >alone. You cannot take known experimental results and use them to >disprove accepted physics. To disprove the textbooks, you need to >supply evidence that is not in the books, something new that accepted >physics fails to describe as it happens in actual experiments. I don't expect anyone to change any beliefs. Beliefs are not easily changed, not without a major restructring of the ego and psyche. As regards disproving textbooks. Well I can't disprove the Bible to a True Believer, even though belief in it requires circular reasoning. Much as does your conventional physics. E.G. MASS CAUSES GRAVITY, GRAVITY CAUSES MASS. >So far, you have not provided new evidence. You seem to suggest that >you will not accept that the evidence already in existance supports >conventional physics, so within the list rules, what can we accomplish >here? AND NEITHER HAVE YOU PROVIDED EVIDENCE OF FOR INSTANCE "MAGNETIC DOMAINS", YOU MERELY PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF MAGNETISM OR MAGNETIC EFFECT. NOT THE SAME THING AS A DOMAIN. CAPS ARE FOR EMPHASIS NOT FOR YELLING OR SCREAMING. Lee Markland > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 17:21:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02405; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:18:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:18:55 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Grat Crabtree" To: "'Lee Markland'" , Subject: RE: Water Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:10:55 -0700 Message-ID: <003d01bddc50$e1d0e4e0$ae4368cf@gratnsue> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980910035013.008f3100@rockisland.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"QuTmK.0.Hb.khnzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6262 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: H 2 o duh Grat http://I.am/Grat http://grat.home.ml.org http://grat.conk.com -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland [mailto:markland@rockisland.com] Sent: Thursday, September 10, 1998 3:50 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Water Could somebody please explain to stupid, stuck up the wrong tree me, how water can exist on the surface of a body in the prescence of heat, and an atmosphere hundreds or thousands time that of Earth. If it isn't liquid, it isn't water. It can't be Ice And it can't be gas, because the planet (Jupiter) is suppose to be mainly helium and hydrogen - a failed star. So how can water be water and not be a liquid. I'm always ready for enlightment and real education (besides unproven and unprovable theory that is). Stupid, stuck up the wrong tree. Lee :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 17:40:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12317; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:35:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:35:44 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980910003653.006a168c@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 20:36:53 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Cell Death? Resent-Message-ID: <"GWzc92.0.603.Vxnzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6263 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:04 PM 9/8/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi All >There are some monks that live somewhere in the mountains (low oxygen), eat >small but varied meals, do moderate exercise and meditate/pray. Not a very >stressful existence. Their average life expectancy is above 100! With that kind of lifestyle why would you want to be 100. This sounds like one of those vague free energy stories we keep hearing about (some one ,some where , I'm not sure where, discovered by Prof. Igor Buttski in Northern Solobania,etc.) No concrete names or places or information that can be verified just a Weekly World News story. Lets keep to the facts. If we can keep the bs and wishfull thinking off this list we may be able to get somewhere. Promoting disinformation no matter how well intended through this list will hurt the cause and may be seen by some as a conspiracy. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 18:32:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00648; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:27:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:27:12 -0700 Message-ID: <007301bddc5a$cdeef980$87649ad1@et-s> From: "Eric Tonkins" To: Subject: Re: Minato's Wheel ??? Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:03:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"cegLF1.0.y9.khozr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6264 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >It is well into September now, so what happened to the report on >the Minato magnetic wheel? All I have read so far is some enigmatic >comment about there being both positives and negatives. > >Maybe it actually WORKS and now people are trying to get the "cat >back into the bag"! I've wondered what's going on as well. I've even emailed the minato people and still have yet to hear from them. Till Later, Eric Favorite Quote: " Wonderful times only happen to you if you show up. Unless you show up, you'll never have one ! " Eric Tonkins EMail: vegan@sprynet.com Internet: http://my.name.is/free$100drawing4you Voice / Fax: (702) 358-7681 Home Office: 634 Oakwood Dr. # 3, Sparks, NV 89431 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 18:33:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01341; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:29:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:29:21 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:30:56 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Off Topic] Re: McGwire /USA President/ and people in general In-Reply-To: <002b01bddbd5$cbfe4e80$af4b4a0c@dialup.csn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"1eHW3.0.nK.njozr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6265 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Chris Malcheski wrote: Hi Steve, McGwire's 62nd is completely irrelevant, IMHO. He needed drugs to do it. Big deal. Maris did it without steroids. -- Chris ____________ Hi Chris, I think your referring to Antroas(sp?).. this is _NOT_ a steroid but more of a vitamin supplement. Like your "one-a-day". Questions arouse as it was banned in Football. When digging deeper, the REASON was IT did have the ability to skew (current) steroid results... so to remove the problem, they just banned it (rather than make a better test:) It *IS NOT A STERIOD* - Did Maris drink O.J. (vitamin C!) Actually I don't see your complaint unless you were born after 1961 record year being broken. (?) .. I predict with 19 games left maybe another 6-8 Home Runs .. We could see a Herculean ~73-75!~ if he stays healthy. Best to you & yours -=se=- steve (off to eat my steak & potato dinner:) ekwall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 18:34:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02043; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:30:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:30:56 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980910100053.00b80210@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:00:53 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: abuse@pacbell.net In-Reply-To: <003b01bddc4f$7be25700$ae4368cf@gratnsue> References: <3.0.5.32.19980910034021.008f5100@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"vXlQe.0.cV.Flozr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6266 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Get a clue grat the subject tells it all. Lee Markland At 05:06 PM 9/9/98 -0700,"Grat Crabtree" wrote: > > >Grat >http://I.am/Grat >http://grat.home.ml.org >http://grat.conk.com > > Metaphysics is "All motion requires a current force and a >current force requires a physical process" - What could be more unsound than >that? > prove it, bitch. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 18:37:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02111; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:31:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:31:02 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980910100105.009e2a40@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:01:05 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: abuse@pacbell.net In-Reply-To: <003c01bddc4f$8aea9b40$ae4368cf@gratnsue> References: <3.0.5.32.19980910034021.008f5100@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ARzdf2.0.lW.Llozr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6267 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The following was just received. Two such back to back. I'm serious see the subject of this Email, At 05:08 PM 9/9/98 -0700, gratnsell@pacbell.net wrote: >you stupid cocksucker. >I used to enjoy this list then you came along with your moronic vision >now I dread it. I have to wince at your shoddy logic. >fuck you very much for ruining a cool thing. >typical >fuck you again > >Grat >http://I.am/Grat >http://grat.home.ml.org >http://grat.conk.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland [mailto:markland@rockisland.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 10, 1998 3:40 AM >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: RE:what is wrong with lee? > > >At 11:27 PM 9/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >>lee, I believe you are stuck up the wrong tree. >> >>listen lee you said this: >> >>?Magnetism is simply an overcharged piece of matter now if you can >>?tentatively accept that possible explanation and then start asking the >>?right questions from that premise, where will it take you. >> >>bob said this; >> >>>If it were due to electrons, we could block a magnetic field with tin >>>foil, as >>>tin foil is a good electrostatic shield, but a poor magnetic shield. >>> >> >>this is true and can be demonstrated. >>can you not see the simple truth? >>I guess not because >> >>you replied; >> >>?Aha, but again current thinking, and current thinking has so overly >>?complicated what in all likelihood are rather simplistic issues. >>? >>?I've thrown out a couple of theories, that cut like Occam's Razor to the >>?quick. However the "current thinking" has so convoluted reality that it >has >>?become incomprehensible and complex that it is unreal and does not >describe >>?reality. >> >>your 'theories' are based on nothing but your belief in them. you refuse to >>see reality. the reality is that water does not have to be liquid and >>aluminum foil will>not block a magnet. > >Outside of the denigration and hostility evident. > >Pray tell - when is water not a liquid. Explain that to poor stupid me. > >And where did I say that aluminum foil will block a magnet. I didn't say >that at all. >In fact before I posted my last response I was sitting here playing with a >magnet and aluminum foil. > >And finally I don't have beliefs, dear Sir. I am merely questioning beliefs. > >> >> you cannot say they do and then "POOF" they magically do. sorry but that >>only works in neverland ranch. > >What I have said is that this "atomic" theory of magnetism cannot be proven >either, it is only a theory. >> >>the worst part is your attitude of self-righteousness and projecting your >>clinging to unsound science onto your retractors. you need help. >> >>sorry for butting in but this bothers me. >> >>stupidity bothers me. > >And look who throws around Self Righteousness, judging by your hostility I >think the hand that points its finger at me, has three fingers pointing >back at them. > >How dare you resort to such ad hominems and scurrilous attacks. Who is >being self righteous? Sounds like you more than be, and as regards unsound >science. > >Metaphysics is unsound science. "All motion requires a current force and a >current force requires a physical process" - What could be more sound than >that? > >You shame yourself sir. > >Lee Markland > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 18:39:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06651; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:37:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:37:35 -0700 Message-ID: <008401bddc5c$41d63060$87649ad1@et-s> From: "Eric Tonkins" To: Subject: Re: Bob S. Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:38:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"LbQQz3.0.dd1.Urozr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6268 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: ...I'm really sorry to hear this. I know many people were looking forward to the publication. A great many things happened that stopped its publication, none of them good... T.B.C wanted to do a plastic spiral bound book, printed on demand, while many contributors deeply felt that a real, bound book was more appropriate for the quality of their work... Bob, Is the collective work centralized on the net somewhere? Till Later, Eric Favorite Quote: " Wonderful times only happen to you if you show up. Unless you show up, you'll never have one ! " Eric Tonkins EMail: vegan@sprynet.com Internet: http://my.name.is/free$100drawing4you Voice / Fax: (702) 358-7681 Home Office: 634 Oakwood Dr. # 3, Sparks, NV 89431 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 18:43:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07083; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:37:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:37:54 -0700 Message-ID: <35F755A3.380E@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 21:29:23 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Moderation References: <09bb01bddba8$2ae6cf40$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-8cjK3.0.Sk1.nrozr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6269 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Wallace wrote: > Bringing lawyers into things always mucks everything up, justified or not. Lawyers are tools, they can be used well. I have no love for lawyers in general, none what so ever, but I do know that I would not start a company or venture without consulting one first. Nor would I attempt to patent an invention without a good lawyer. If Jerry Decker refuses to address his actions here on freenrg-l then I have every right to address this elsewhere. A lawyer is an excellent tool for that job. > >My leagal recourse is very clear in this case. > > The lawyers already have so much money, is Jerry really worth it to you? Should I persue this and prevail, it will cost me nothing at all! The real question becomes what Jerry Decker and Keelynet are worth? > >But libel is another matter. > > And you may have grounds, but I would have more respect for you if you did > not make a lawyer richer based on them. Understood. Lawyers need to eat too, they are not all evil. (I understand that in many cases this is negotiable however!) Failing moderation, there is a matter of self respect, and the respect shared by my associates implicated in 'cult' activity. These are worth more than any satisfaction I might gain from seeing a slightly hungery lawyer. A good lawyer will not skip many meals for the lack of my business. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 18:52:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11590; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:50:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:50:23 -0700 Message-ID: <35F75897.2D10@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 21:41:59 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: markland@rockisland.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: re: Re: abuse@pacbell.net References: <3.0.5.32.19980910034021.008f5100@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980910100105.009e2a40@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1CCNw1.0.xq2.U1pzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6270 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee, I cannot beleive you are being subjected to this abuse, not that I disbeleive that it heppened, I cannot grasp the sick sort of person who would bother to do this kind of thing. While you and I have not seen eye to eye, nothing can justify this insult! I am taking the time to write this to you because I also received an email from this same sick person. The message I received was very different in its nature, but I wish to make that message freely available to you if it is of any value in identifing the person. If you wish, I will forward that message to you, or to any other agent you choose. I am deeply offended that this happend over freenrg-l. You have my complete support on this issue, whatever differences of opinion we may have on subjects of physics, I suspect that we would tend to agree with each other over matters of fair play. I am at your service in this matter. Respectfully, Bob Shannon. Lee Markland wrote: > > The following was just received. Two such back to back. I'm serious see the > subject of this Email, > > At 05:08 PM 9/9/98 -0700, gratnsell@pacbell.net wrote: From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 19:00:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14856; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:58:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:58:22 -0700 Message-ID: <35F83D76.E44AE228@ihug.co.nz> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:58:31 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: What is it? why are the lists like this? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"p4Q2v2.0.2e3.-8pzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6271 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What is it that has gotten the freenrg list so loud and aggressive, moon? solar flares? new people? People you are totally killing the noise to info ratio, please try to keep bickering off the list. What kind of impression are we setting? John Berry From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 19:06:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17539; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:03:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:03:49 -0700 Message-ID: <35F75BBC.323D@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 21:55:24 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: markland@rockisland.com Subject: Re: abuse@pacbell.net References: <3.0.5.32.19980910034021.008f5100@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980910100053.00b80210@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HAdJm1.0.qH4.4Epzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6272 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee, A fast point and click got me a copy of the resume of this person. I have it saved as an HTML file on my hard drive. May I email you this file privately as an attachement, or would that cause a problem with your software? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 19:48:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01996; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:43:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:43:40 -0700 Message-ID: <35F844D4.1D2D@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:29:56 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ohms Law References: <199809080623.XAA21432@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <35F7FC34.4772@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <35F7381A.3481@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9o4br2.0.4V.Rppzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6273 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi there Bob! Yes, I remember that technique too.....:-)) > > Its a funny thing about batteries actually. I work with batteries every > day > and see many things like this. > > The two loads have different load resistances, and draw differing > currents. Yes. > > Differing total current demands will cause a differing ammount of > voltage > drop across the internal resistance of the batteries of course.... > Yes. > > But that internal resistance is NOT a constant in this case! > > The internal resistance of a battery, rechargable or primary, be it lead > acid, copper zinc and a lemmon, or lithium polymer, varies in response > to several factors (often different from each type of battery) one of > which is the current demand placed on the cell. > Yes I agree Bob. This is my understanding of the "real world" too! But you see, I was trying NOT to confuse the issue by raising the possibility of that practical complication. It's not TOO much of a problem though, and I'll get to it in a moment. > > We can see this (sort of) in the way that................ > 'Big Snip' of battery characteristics and behaviour (I concede to your superior practical knowledge in this Bob)...... and some other very interesting information, which may not be "quite' relevant to the matter at hand........ > > You have not provided enough information to make an accurate prediction > of a real world experiment yet. How is the battery going to respond to > the differing load conditions? > > If you want to see an excellent example of a battery that can change its > source impedance based on the applied load, try your basic nine volt > battery. simple calculations assuming a fixed internal impedance will > quickly fail to describe its real world behavior for completely > conventional reasons. > Ah....., OK Bob, let's see what we can do about that. There are two ways we might satisfy your "real world" practical requirements, and still not have to do the experiment. (1) Let's try and get over the internal resistance variation problem by joining together a very large number of brand new, carefully monitored, fully charged, twelve volt lead acid automobile batteries. Let's say about one hundred of them, all wired in parallel. One advantage is that a lead acid cell has a low internal resistance. I seem to remember that a reasonable battery could have about 2.1 volts across each cell which would mean six cells might have an open circuit voltage of some 12.6 volts. The internal resistance of each cell would be about 0.005 ohms. Is that near enough in practice?? Which means that each battery would have an internal resistance of about 0.03 ohms. And if we connected 100 of these batteries together in parallel the internal resistance of the entire mess would be only 0.0003 ohms. Right? How much will the total internal resistance vary, as a result of the different currents drawn by the two different inductors? And do you consider that that difference is sufficient to alter in any significant way, the clear implications of And please don't tell me that 100 lead batteries is not a practical real world experiment. I once dropped a spanner into the midst of a ships very large, 220 volt, lead acid, DC power supply....:-(( The spark transmitter hardly hiccuped.:-)) (2) The second way we might address the "practical" objections here, is to simply alter the proposed practical/mental experiment. Let's IGNORE the internal resistance of the source. Who cares WHAT it is? Let's simply 'crank up' our power supply source, until it mimics the behaviour of our theoretical requirements. That's a lot simpler!..... and it gives exactly the same results .... and we arrive at exactly the same conclusions! So is there anybody who can, with conviction, (and without even cracking a smile) tell me that the magnetic field of an inductor is directly caused by a flow of electrons through it in the form of an 'electrical' current? That is, there is nothing else involved apart from that electrical action. I think not! If, like me, you can also see the obvious, and believe something else is involved, what is it? Do you not think it might just be the copper conductor itself, that is being affected 'catalytically' as it were, by the stress of an imposed electrical pressure "field" we define as voltage, rather than a great flock of bunny hopping electrons ?? Regards, Stuart -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 20:07:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08992; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:01:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:01:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199809100303.AAA20157@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:24:43 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Batteries [was Re: Ohms Law] Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <35F7381A.3481@tiac.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"rRzwb.0.GC2.U4qzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6274 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > This gets really complex when we pulse discharge and/or pulse charge a > battery. > We can often get FAR MORE energy out of the cell than we used to > recharge that very same cell only moments ago. Is this extra energy > free? No, when we do this we shorten the cycle life because we have > consumed chemical energy from the electrolyte. > Maybe the Tesla-Switch could be made to work sucessfully only with a correct type of battery ? > In many cases, a 'dead' battery can be 'recharged' simply by drawing > short, sharp spikes from the cell, lowering its intrernal impedance by a > huge factor. Again, this energy is not free, nor is it new to the > battery. We just unlocked stored chemical energy. This little trick > shows up very often in free energy claims. > Just for curiosity, do you know if some type of battery has a caracteristic resonant frequency ? --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 20:22:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16901; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:19:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:19:30 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980909232614.009c4a40@cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel@cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 23:26:17 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: What is it? why are the lists like this? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"kWUct1.0.-74.1Lqzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6276 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:58 PM 9/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >What is it that has gotten the freenrg list so loud and aggressive, >moon? solar flares? new people? Yes folks, I for one am getting a bit tired of this... Bob. You should know better. Lee. Please, if you don't believe in domain walls, by all means look for them yourself. Grow a crystal of a magnetic material, slice it thin enough so you can see thru it, then use a microscope. You'll see boatloads of little islands, each being a domain. Bulk magnetic material will have many of these with different polarities, giving rise to the net zero magnetic field associated with an "unmagnetized" magnet. K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 20:26:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15971; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:16:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:16:40 -0700 Message-ID: <35F76CD4.375@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 23:08:20 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ohms Law References: <199809080623.XAA21432@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <35F7FC34.4772@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <35F7381A.3481@tiac.net> <35F844D4.1D2D@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Q_pX81.0.Tv3.NIqzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6275 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stuart Rae wrote: > Let's IGNORE the internal resistance of the source. Who cares WHAT it is? > Let's simply 'crank up' our power supply source, until it mimics the > behaviour of our theoretical requirements. That's a lot simpler!..... and it > gives exactly the same results .... and we arrive at exactly the same > conclusions! Yes, it is much simpler if we assume a voltage regulated power supply. This eliminates many problems right off the starting block. > So is there anybody who can, with conviction, (and without even cracking a > smile) tell me that the magnetic field of an inductor is directly caused by a > flow of electrons through it in the form of an 'electrical' current? > That is, there is nothing else involved apart from that electrical action. Yes, I think. > I think not! Why not? Its true enough for a normal copper wire. Why is it different once we roll the wire into the coil, saving induction, etc? > If, like me, you can also see the obvious, and believe something else is > involved, what is it? What is obvious to you here that I'm missing? > Do you not think it might just be the copper conductor itself, that is being > affected 'catalytically' as it were, by the stress of an imposed electrical > pressure "field" we define as voltage, rather than a great flock of bunny > hopping electrons ?? Is there any evidence for this? This sounds a good deal like Mr. Newman's two coil experiment. The field we define as voltage, the vector difference in potential across the coil, is what sets the current flow. Copper itself is not specifically relevent to this process, other materials can be used, including forming spirals from electron beams in vacuum tubes such as multicavity magentrons. That electron beam 'coil' still has inductance just as if it were in a copper wire, so I see no difference in behavior when the copper is present, and find no evidence for such a catalytic reaction. But if you have evidence for such an effect, please do bring it forward! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 20:56:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA30989; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:54:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:54:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980910124526.008d7ab0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:45:26 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Psychodynamics of Interaction In-Reply-To: <35F740E5.4A79@tiac.net> References: <19980909.195242.10039.1.steve-nyeoka@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"k4IIW2.0.6a7.prqzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6277 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It is obvious that my questions and questioning of conventional wisdom is causing some people some grief. I am on at 5 lists and get hundreds of mails per day from various posters. Most of it I scan real quick. The more inane and ridiculous stuff I simply delete, I mean how does one even get into a conversation with someone that thinks that there is an inner Earth and that reptoids live in it or grey aliens travel to and from within that region. I just chuckle and hit the delete key. Some vexing people have earned a place on my filter (Eudora Tools Filter). They disappear from view. Accomplishes the same effect as unsubscribe. The person is still there talking, but the mouth is opening and nothing is coming up. The responses I do post are in situations where I take exception to something that has been said AND I feel is important. But once it becomes obvious that I've encountered a lose lose situation or that senseless bantering ensues. I just stop responding. It is my observation that people only respond to issues that they feel are important or threatening, at least in the public forum (it's the propaganda issue). Heresy must be corrected. Very little in the way of exchange of information ensues in such a situation. The significant point here is that the only reason I even emote a response is because what I am saying is perceived at some level as a threat. Thus just the fact that I'm being responded to means that there is some validity to what I am saying or what I am saying is perceived as a threat. It really is that simple. If I had made a statement, totally ludicrous, for instance that the Earth was flat. The other members of the forum would merely have chuckled, hit the delete key and went on to the next message. That didn't happen, in fact I have heightened emotions and a good detective would say, where there is smoke there is fire. I'm told on one hand that I've got my head up my you know what, in polite terms of course, then the same person goes on to argue with me thus contradicting the previous assessment. Or spending a whole Email telling me over and over again that I have my head up my you know what (in polite terms of course). Makes no sense to me. Again, let's strike a deal. If I jump in and say something that "everyone knows" is false, silly and stupid then hit the delete key or put me on your filter. However considering the number of personal and public responses that are favorable, I don't think that this is the case at all (well maybe sometimes) but not all the time. That's the way to handle troublesome, irritating and vexing people like me? Either that or resort to censorship - a common practise on forums, when heresie is espoused. I've seen folk unsubbed from listserves who didn't break a rule one, but merely exposed the hidden agenda or fallacy of a resident expert. Sincerely, Lee Markland From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 21:08:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA03392; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:06:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:06:13 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809100407.VAA22730@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Who owns this list Resent-Message-ID: <"6jp1x.0.vq.p0rzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6279 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee and all, With all due respect, what I think has bothered some members is that you appear to be doing what you claim "dogmatic science" of doing. I will paraphase some of the comments, so feel feel to correct them :-). 1. You state that the magnetic field is from excess electrons. This is a theory. By your logic, no theory should be accepted just because it is placed on the table. That would be just "dogma". Your example in a scout handbook no one else found. Someone correct me if someone did. You said to try to accept this, and then see what conclusions will follow. OK. The first conslusion I thought of is that the needle magnet could be "discharged", then it wouldn't be magnetic. I took a magnetized needle. I placed it in a closed metal container, then removed it. This is Faraday's "Ice pail" experiment that showed that a charged object could be "discharged" this way. Theory might have followed, but this itself was/is only observation. The needle was still magnetic. I think this type of evidence is what Bob was referring to. Does this mean your electrons are not the same as those observed "free" in a charged metal object? Another question, what is the interaction with a charged object with the earth's EM field that makes it a compass? I understand the "static" magnetic field lines, but don't see its force interaction with an electrostatic object. 2. Current motion requires a current force. You have stated this several times. Just accepting this on your (or anyone's!) word would again be dogma. When I roll a ball on a level track, it slowly stops. I understand (conventional) friction as a force which stops it. What force is keeping its motion after I release it? That is, can you please give your explanation? 3. This is metaphysical, at least in the original meaning, that is, in this case, a question about science. In your excess electron magnetic theory, *How* do you know what you do about electrons? Or more generally, how correctly is knowledge accumulated by science? 4. You discredit other non freenrg areas as well, such as religion. I am a Christian. True saying the Bible is the word of God in itself is not sufficient. Many people have claimed they were God. I believe so for other reasons, for example its description of the Human condition, and claims that are revealed in it that were fulfilled. Logic is part of religion, but so is belief or faith. Do you ever ask what your purpose in life is and why? I guess I am saying there is more to life than empirical information. Hope this helps, -Dave > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 21:09:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA03337; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:06:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:06:04 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809100407.VAA22656@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Ohms Law Resent-Message-ID: <"_MDeo.0.zp.h0rzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6278 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stuart and all! At 09:20 AM 9/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >> >There are many practical and experimental ways to test this most basic >> >assumption of Ohm's Law. For example, that it is the electrical current (as >> >envisaged in Ohm's law), that is the prime causal agent in the formation of a >> >magnetic field around an electrical conductor. Simple experimental evidence >> >and a close examination of this phenomena shows that this assumption is >> >clearly, patently, and provably incorrect! >> >> Can you describe these simple experiments? >> > >OK. For starters, how about we take 1000 metres of 2 mm wire (it's 25 degrees >C so it has a resistance of about 5.61 ohms per 1000 metres), and wind it >onto a coil former with a circumference of 1 metre. > >Grab a supply source of some sort (a battery?) that has an internal >resistance of anywhere and somewhere between say 6 ohms and .06 ohms and an >open circuit voltage of around 12 volts. Connect it to the inductor. After >L/R, what is the current in amperes, the field strength in Oersteds, and the >power in watts? OK, I'll do your exercise. Unless you explain it's importance to the results, I used an ideal 12 Volt supply instead of a battery. Less busywork calculations :-). Current = 1.35A (Is there any significance of 1 time constant?) Field strength (Sorry I forgot what an Oersted conversion is) 668 amp turns/meter. (This is only 8.4 gauss) Power at this time = 16.2 watts > >Let's grap some more 2 mm wire, but 2000 metres this time, and wind another >coil on the same size former, same length, but in two layers which doesn't >alter the diameter significantly. After L/R, what is the current in amperes, >the field in Oersteds, and the power in watts? > Current = 0.67A Field strength = 668 amp turns/meter Power 8.1 watts >By the way, what is the voltage across the inductor in the two different >cases? > The actual wire, 12 Volts. Why? >But let's not waste time actually doing the experiment. Yes, these are quite long solenoids :-). > >What would conventional understanding tell us to expect? > Here is a third coil. The same dimensions as the first, 1000m length, but aluminum instead of copper. Many motors now use enameled Al wire. It has 1.53X the resistance of Cu wire. The same conditions: Current = 0.88A Field strength = 437 At/m Power = 10.6 watts. So how does this disprove Ohms law? Or that that the assumption of current as the causal agent is "clearly, patently, and provably incorrect"?!? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 22:52:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00508; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:48:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:48:09 -0700 Message-ID: <35F86E6A.6489@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:27:22 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ohms Law References: <199809080623.XAA21432@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <35F7FC34.4772@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <35F7381A.3481@tiac.net> <35F844D4.1D2D@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <35F76CD4.375@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sioDJ.0.q7.OWszr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6280 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello there again Bob, > > > So is there anybody who can, with conviction, (and without even cracking a > > smile) tell me that the magnetic field of an inductor is directly caused by a > > flow of electrons through it in the form of an 'electrical' current? > > That is, there is nothing else involved apart from that electrical action. > > Yes, I think. > > > I think not! > > Why not? Its true enough for a normal copper wire. Why is it different > once we roll the wire into the coil, saving induction, etc? > Now, now Robert, that isn't really cricket old chap. You are not only ignoring any logic that I might have proposed, but you have also failed to answer even the simplest of questions put in my posts on this subject. I have certainly given you the courtesy of addressing yours. Having overcome the internal resistance problem by the substitution of a "supply", you STILL do not acknowledge the very clear evidence in front of you regarding the magnetic field produced, nor do you address the obvious fact that this particular magnetic phenomena is confirmed in the day to day actions of all the various electromagnetic devices we have surrounded ourselves with!! I find it extremely strange that you now refuse to accept the experimentally proven, and scientifically confirmed behaviour of an electromagnetic phenomena that has been known observed and tested for well over a hundred and fifty years. All I have been doing in my recent posts to this list is to use Ohm's Law itself to disprove rationally, using the example of an inductor's magnetic field, that the basic assumption in that 'Law', i.e. the 'electron current' theory, may NOT in fact be the prime causal mechanism of electrical phenomena, or the origin of an inductor's magnetic field. And if I might also remind you Bob, that it was Mr William Beaty who first brought this particularly odd anomaly of electromagnetics to the attention of list members some time ago, when he expressed the view that: Quote: >Also, if you put one watt into a big coil, it will create a much larger >field than if you put one watt into a small coil. (When doing this >experiment, you can set the volts/amps to whatever the coil will tolerate, >the only requirement is that the wattage be the same for both coils.) So, >to reduce the inefficiency losses in a magnetic system, put more pounds of >copper in the coils. It's a rule of thumb. >snip Please note the first sentence that follows: >I see the mass relationship as primary, because it sets the maximum field >attainable in a real-world coil. b=i*t doesn't discuss wattage or field >maximum, it implies that if you want higher field, you just increase the >current or rewind the coil with finer wire (more turns per pound.) This >doesn't work, because doing so will not change the maximum field that >occurrs just below the coil burnout point. > >In truth, if you use MORE wire (regardless of wire diameter), the coil >uses less watts to get the same field strength. This is a very strange, >little-discussed rule in magnetics. > >Changing only the number of turns (and keeping total wire weight the same) >does not change the maximum wattage allowed by a particular coil. Changing >the turns simply changes the type of power supply required. You could >wind a coil with one turn of 1" diameter copper bar, or you could wind a >coil with maybe 50,000 turns of about #40 wire. Both will give the same >field strength when driven with 50 watts. Of course one coil at 50watts >will have immense current at low voltage, while the other coil has immense >voltage at low current. So, varying the turns just varies the power >supply type, it does not vary the max field strength, and does not vary >the field strength per watt. Since the max field strength is determined >by the max coil wattage allowed, adding more pounds to the wire goes far >in increasing the possible field strength attainable. > >snip Unquote: > > What is obvious to you here that I'm missing? > I 'thought' I'd very clearly explained that. May I suggest you read my previous posts on the subject again very carefully. Perhaps I was a little too oblique? Where my questions misleading in some way? > > Is there any evidence for this? This sounds a good deal like Mr. > Newman's two coil experiment. > Now, then. That's not really cricket either Bob. I'm also aware of the history of that previous discussion here. And I hope you are NOT inferring in any way that I am on this list to advance any particular ideas or concepts that Mr Newman may entertain. However, the fact is that Mr Newman does have the intelligence to see the obvious so clearly implied in conventional electromagnetics. It doesn't matter how he expresses it. And the particular method of his "two coil" experiment is insufficient justification to denigrate it, as has been done previously on this list. I can only suggest that you consider again very carefully the conventional, established, scientific, experimentally confirmed behaviour, and understanding of an inductor's magnetic field, as clearly expressed previously by both myself and Mr Beaty, on this list. > > .... Copper itself is not specifically relevant to this process, other > materials can be used, including forming spirals from electron beams in > vacuum tubes such as multicavity magentrons. That electron beam 'coil' > still has inductance just as if it were in a copper wire, so I see no > difference in behavior when the copper is present, and find no evidence > for such a catalytic reaction. > > But if you have evidence for such an effect, please do bring it forward! > Conventional electromagnetics itself, which you so vigorously defend, provides that very clear evidence itself. And I have yet to read any rational response or alternative answers to my questions from anyone, as to just why I should NOT believe in that conventional view. -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 9 22:58:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA02745; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:54:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:54:52 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <9a6ad8ba.35f769c9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:55:21 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Questions on Newman's motor Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"nMl7c3.0.og.icszr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6281 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 10/09/1998 00:14:31, srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz wrote : << Congratulations, and thank you Jean-Louis for making this experimental information so readily available to us all. And my sincere best wishes to you in your further experimental research. >> Thank you very much for your comments, Stuart, your words encourage me to go further in the exploration in this domain of the research. Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 00:16:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA17076; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:13:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:13:27 -0700 Message-ID: <007201bddc8a$6e62acc0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Cell Death? Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:12:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"kruOf.0.fA4.Mmtzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6282 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Richard and All Come on Richard! it was only a single line comment. I couldn't be bothered to wade through all the books to find it again. If I had written a little more, then I would have spent the time. I accept your point though! Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: wood > This sounds like one of those vague free energy stories we keep hearing >about (some one ,some where , I'm not sure where, discovered by Prof. Igor >Buttski in Northern Solobania,etc.) No concrete names or places or >information that can be verified just a Weekly World News story. Lets keep >to the facts. If we can keep the bs and wishfull thinking off this list we >may be able to get somewhere. Promoting disinformation no matter how well >intended through this list will hurt the cause and may be seen by some as a >conspiracy. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 00:20:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19010; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:18:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:18:11 -0700 Message-ID: <00a301bddc8b$17bd78e0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Ohms Law Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:17:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZR1fv1.0.ye4.oqtzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6283 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Rae >That sounds like a really cool experiment. As soon as I can afford to buy >some extra wire, I'll try it!....:-) Just use half the length! ;-} >But isn't there a bit of a problem here. If this theory is right, and the >electrons are bunny-hopping from atom to atom, down the two wires, a metre >apart, how do they push each other aside? Do they have access to some kind of >magical force, throw things at each other, or just have very long elbows? I have never seen it defined, although I assume the force is generated by their magnetic fields. >No, I'm not being nasty or poking fun David.......:-) I didn't think your were. I don't care anyway :-) Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 00:36:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22968; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:34:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:34:40 -0700 Message-ID: <35F88A2F.3CB7@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:25:51 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ohms Law References: <00a301bddc8b$17bd78e0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m75WF3.0.jc5.F4uzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6284 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi again David, > > > Just use half the length! ;-} > Thanks David, good thinking. I needn't save up for so long after all!! > > I have never seen it defined, although I assume the force is generated by > their magnetic fields. > True enough, and I'm sure we would both like to know exactly what that is........:-)) > > I didn't think your were. I don't care anyway :-) > Thanks David. Above all, let's keep a sense of perspective, and a sense of humour!!....:-) Best Regards, Stuart -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 00:56:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26966; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:55:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:55:15 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:56:54 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: On the Way to Quantum Gravity? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_AaAg3.0.Gb6.ZNuzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6285 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Berkant Goeksel wrote: [snip, most all] 'According to the Einstein-Mayer theory of gravity, the energy-momentum density of gravitational fields is a measurable quantity, and thus, the quantization of this theory leads to a physically meaningful theory of quantum gravity. All this is due to the Machian properties of this theory such that measurable quantum effects here result as "Machian effects" with reference to the universe.' (p.148) 'So, "measurable gravitons" are in a similar sense a consequence of the Mach-Einstein "induction of inertia by cosmic gravity" as, according to Heisenberg's theory of a unified field (Heisenberg, 1967), the elementary particles with restmass. In both cases it is related to a cosmic breaking of certain symmetries.' (pp. 148-149) ----------------- Hi Berkant, And I have a cat named "Heisenberg!" (male 12 yrs B/W). What is your point?? Is this push or pull? &?..........? -=se=- steve (i'm assuming pushing gravitons) ekwall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 01:12:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA29822; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:11:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:11:10 -0700 Message-ID: <35F891C9.520E@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:58:17 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: What is it? why are the lists like this? References: <3.0.32.19980909232614.009c4a40@cnct.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vxjIe1.0.uH7.Tcuzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6286 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi John and Keith, > > >What is it that has gotten the freenrg list so loud and aggressive, > >moon? solar flares? new people? > > Yes folks, I for one am getting a bit tired of this... > Now you might just have a very important point there gentlemen! Perhaps we are all being manipulated by someone with a powerful scalar transmitter, .....and a very nasty sense of humour....... :-)) So whatever you do, just keep smiling, Regards, Stuart -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 01:50:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03318; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:47:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:47:44 -0700 Message-ID: <00a401bddc97$97b16640$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Hubbles Constant, Einstein's 'anti-gravity' Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:07:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"4j-173.0.ip.m8vzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6287 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All The other night I watched a documentary revealing the latest values for the Hubble Constant. These latest experiments suggest that not only is the universe expanding, it is actually accelerating. If these results are to be believed, we have to invent a new force that is in opposition to gravity to account for the acceleration. Einstein originally 'invented' this force to make his equations fit the then popular 'static universe' theory. After Hubble published his paper, Einstein apparently said that describing this 'force' was the greatest mistake of his career. We may now have to rethink our understanding of gravity if the data is concurred. For those who think I might be inventing this..... =================================== Broadcast Type: GB wide transmission Program Name: Equinox Station: Channel 4 Broadcast Time: 21:00 Monday 8 September 1998 Duration: 1 hour Or then again, did I imagine it? "If you want to find out anything from the theoretical physicists about the methods they use, I advise you to stick closely to one principle: Don't listen to their words, fix your attention on their deeds." Albert Einstein Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 01:50:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03393; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:47:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:47:54 -0700 Message-ID: <00a501bddc97$98c71c00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: RE DISINFORMATION Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:46:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"gq9Hg3.0.rq.v8vzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6288 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Richard and All -----Original Message----- From: wood > This sounds like one of those vague free energy stories we keep hearing >about (some one ,some where , I'm not sure where, discovered by Prof. Igor >Buttski in Northern Solobania,etc.) No concrete names or places or >information that can be verified just a Weekly World News story. Lets keep >to the facts. If we can keep the bs and wishfull thinking off this list we >may be able to get somewhere. Promoting disinformation no matter how well >intended through this list will hurt the cause and may be seen by some as a >conspiracy. This coming from someone who stated "Why do we need to hook a scope up? If he has a penlight battery at one end and a standard 110 v light bulb burning at the other I don't care what the little electrons are doing I am seeing over unity. " Now that's promoting disinformation. We can buy a variant on these 'FREE-NRG' machines at our local computer store. Why are we bothering discussing anything else? Or is it the usual, 12V isn't enough power 'cus it's 98V short and it 12V isn't enough of them voltage type things to make electricity power 'cus the bulb is 110V. And before you ask, YES I HAVE TRIED IT! (using a Merlin Geran 200W 12VDC to 220VAC inverter, output adjusted to 180VAC, using 6 x Duracell AA batteries in series as the source, and one Philips 40W, 230V clear ES lamp) This setup did something with the little electrons that lit the bulb and made the battery hot. (None of my remote controls work now!) Old Duracell Data Size Mass Nominal Capacity =========================== AA 22g 2.6Ah at 10R for 20.2hours to 0.8V David Callaghan PS I'll get back off this horse now ;-} From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 02:06:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07520; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 02:03:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 02:03:10 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bddc99$be82ebc0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Oops, Sorry Richard Wood Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:00:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"gcCgT1.0.Qr1.ENvzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6289 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Richard and All I accidentally sent my first draft of this message to the list (bloody Outlook Express)! Please ignore it, I had just woken with a headache. The first draft wasn't as amicable. Richard, you made a worthwhile and valid point and I hope you accept my apologies. In future I will try to include text that can be verified. I have made this mistake a number of times. My mood has calmed somewhat after two Nurofen. Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: David Callaghan >Hi Richard and All > >Come on Richard! it was only a single line comment. I couldn't be bothered >to wade through all the books to find it again. If I had written a little >more, then I would have spent the time. > >I accept your point though! > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: wood >> This sounds like one of those vague free energy stories we keep hearing >>about (some one ,some where , I'm not sure where, discovered by Prof. Igor >>Buttski in Northern Solobania,etc.) No concrete names or places or >>information that can be verified just a Weekly World News story. Lets keep >>to the facts. If we can keep the bs and wishfull thinking off this list we >>may be able to get somewhere. Promoting disinformation no matter how well >>intended through this list will hurt the cause and may be seen by some as a >>conspiracy. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 02:15:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA09517; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 02:14:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 02:14:50 -0700 Message-ID: <35F8A3C9.252AF227@ihug.co.nz> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:15:06 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hubbles Constant, Einstein's 'anti-gravity' References: <00a401bddc97$97b16640$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gDryW1.0.dK2.9Yvzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6290 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The effect you are talking about is implicated under conventional systems (and can be mathematically proven), and can be predicted because of time delay in forces (If any time delay as assumed in the forces between galaxies) due to it seeing the position of the other galaxy as it was some time ago the force is some what in the direction of motion speeding up velocity of each, this is an totally inescapable conclusion demonstrating free energy and is in effect on smaller scales as in water hammer but they still say there is no evidence for creation of energy, They even say it is impossible when if it was why is there energy at all? If you look at an energy transfer and break it into it's parts energy is being created and destroyed all the time just in equal amounts. David Callaghan wrote: > Hi All > > The other night I watched a documentary revealing the latest values for the > Hubble Constant. > > These latest experiments suggest that not only is the universe expanding, it > is actually accelerating. > > If these results are to be believed, we have to invent a new force that is > in opposition to gravity to account for the acceleration. Einstein > originally 'invented' this force to make his equations fit the then popular > 'static universe' theory. After Hubble published his paper, Einstein > apparently said that describing this 'force' was the greatest mistake of his > career. We may now have to rethink our understanding of gravity if the data > is concurred. > > For those who think I might be inventing this..... > =================================== > Broadcast Type: GB wide transmission > Program Name: Equinox > Station: Channel 4 > Broadcast Time: 21:00 Monday 8 September 1998 > Duration: 1 hour > > Or then again, did I imagine it? > > "If you want to find out anything from the theoretical physicists about the > methods they use, I advise you to stick closely to one principle: Don't > listen to their words, fix your attention on their deeds." Albert Einstein > > Best regards > > David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 06:09:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA29542; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 06:07:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 06:07:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199809101308.JAA14048@transfer.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Thu, 10 Sep 98 08:48:43 -0300 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980910071331.00796100@rockisland.com> Subject: Re: Water Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.40 (Unregistered) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id GAA29513 Resent-Message-ID: <"iTaSa1.0.UD7.Nyyzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6291 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In <3.0.5.32.19980910071331.00796100@rockisland.com>, on 09/10/98 at 07:13 AM, Lee Markland said: >At 03:03 PM 9/9/98 -0300, you wrote: >>In <3.0.5.32.19980910035013.008f3100@rockisland.com>, on 09/10/98 >> at 03:50 AM, Lee Markland said: >> >>>Could somebody please explain to stupid, stuck up the wrong tree me, how >>>water can exist on the surface of a body in the prescence of heat, and an >>>atmosphere hundreds or thousands time that of Earth. >> >>The melting/boiling points that we are used to , 0° C and 100° C >>repectively, are for what is refered to as STP: Standard Tempature and >>Pressure (well at least pressure in this case). Gas (water vapour) can be >>forced into a liquid (water) or solid (ice) with the right amount of >>atmospheric pressure. >Thanks, but when I extrapolate that to Jupiter, and consider not only its >atmospheric pressure but its INTENSE HEAT and LACKING a containment >bottle to isolate the water as in the propane. I don't see how one can >have liquid water in such an environment, and if it ain't liquid it ain't >water. Yes, but using the equation PV=nRT (which is actually for a gas), (R is a constant, (I forget it's value) and n, the number of moles (?) will not change since we have a closed system). Then if both P (pressure) and T (temp) rise proportionately then V (volume) will not change. Your containmaint vessel is the planet (athmosphere, gravity, whatever) itself. To see this for yourself, place a small amount of water in a Bell jar and evacuate it. By keeping T constant and lowering P, V will increase to the point that the water undergoes a state change. -Charlie- P.S. Let's next discuss 'Ice Stars' (stars undergoing nuclear fusion yet it's surface temperature is little above 0° K) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 06:50:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA17686; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 06:48:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 06:48:40 -0700 Message-ID: <35F8E3F8.51E6B471@ihug.co.nz> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:48:57 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Water References: <199809101308.JAA14048@transfer.stratus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ubhUV3.0.8K4.tYzzr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6292 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What the? Is astrophysics stranger than astrology? Stars where you are likely to get freezer burn, Either it's wrong or this is the strangest thing I have heard, Unless it's cold fusion ;) > P.S. Let's next discuss 'Ice Stars' (stars undergoing nuclear fusion yet > it's surface temperature is little above 0° K) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 07:41:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05230; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:39:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:39:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199809101440.KAA17919@transfer.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Thu, 10 Sep 98 10:25:19 -0300 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <35F8E3F8.51E6B471@ihug.co.nz> Cc: John Berry Subject: Ice Stars (was Re: Water) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.40 (Unregistered) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA05155 Resent-Message-ID: <"Stt3_2.0.TH1.VI-zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6293 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In <35F8E3F8.51E6B471@ihug.co.nz>, on 09/11/98 at 01:48 AM, John Berry said: >What the? Is astrophysics stranger than astrology? Stars where you are >likely to get freezer burn, Either it's wrong or this is the strangest >thing I have heard, Unless it's cold fusion ;) >> P.S. Let's next discuss 'Ice Stars' (stars undergoing nuclear fusion yet >> it's surface temperature is little above 0° K) The August '98 issue of Sky and Telescope contains an article entitled: "The Future of the Universe". It more or less is a history/prediction of how the universe has/will evolve (based upon current knowledge, theories and assumptions). At some point it is predicted that these will exist. Want to blow your mind even more? In the end, (10^100 years from now) when protons decay and all is left is a handful of neutrons and electrons, an electron will meet up with an neutron, creating an atom the size of the known universe! If your interested in any of this, the article is very worthwile reading. -Charlie- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 09:08:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA32535; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:05:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:05:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980911011456.00b519f0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:14:56 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: What is it? why are the lists like this? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980909232614.009c4a40@cnct.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"kqD1I2.0.7y7.aZ_zr"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6294 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:26 PM 9/9/98 -0400, Keith Nagel wrote: >Lee. Please, if you don't believe in domain walls, by all means look for >them yourself. Grow a crystal of a magnetic material, slice it thin >enough so you can see thru it, then use a microscope. You'll see boatloads >of little islands, each being a domain. Bulk magnetic material will have >many of these with different polarities, giving rise to the net >zero magnetic field associated with an "unmagnetized" magnet. Thanks Keith, now can I ask some scientific questions. The type I assume would be asked in a laboratory or during peer review process 1. What type of magnetic material would be grown? 2. Growing material sounds like crystals, what would be different between crystals and magnetic material? 3. Is the material magnetized after it is grown, or is it magnetized while it is growing.? 4. What would be the difference in structure between a non magnetic material that is grown and a magnetic material that is grown? 5. Can you slice thin other magnetic material and see the same effect? 6. Has this same effect (little islands) been observed under microscopes in steel and iron? 7. When you see little islands, what are you really seeing? I know you interpret what you are seeing as being magnetic domains, but does that really explain what you are seeing? For instance. Can you see an atom, an electron or do you see the effect and interpret them as "magnetic domains"?. It appears to me that some material that might be amenable to magnetism. For instance material whose molecular structure is homogeneous, might be loosely structured or bound enough for clumping or grouping of say molecules thus giving rise to little islands "domains". An effect that you would not see in something like iron, steel. Your comment "Bulk magnetic material will have many of these with different polarities, giving rise to the net zero magnetic field associated with an "unmagnetized" magnet." Seems a little outrageous and illogical, if not circular. An "unmagnetized magnet" describes any piece of iron or steel. The phrase itself is illogical, or an assault on logic.(Not trying to be rude I assume you are quoting theory, so it shouldn't be taken personally). Either something is a magnet or it isn't. Something has been magnetized or it hasn't been. You mention little islands with different polarities. Can you see these polarities? Can you see a negative polarity or a positive polarity? Or are you making an assumption based on a theory? If you can grow a crystal from a material that can be magnetized then it appears to me that when you slice this crystal you will see the structure of these crystals and they will appear as "little islands" or clumps. Perhaps what is clumping together is bonding of elements within the crystal (material). But this crystal or material isn't a magnet until it is magnetized. The idea of a net zero magnetic field seems preposterous to me (as does the notion of polarity). Unless one defines all nonmagnetic material, or material that hasn't yet been magnetized, as a net zero magnetic field. In that case my book in front of me has a net zero magnetic field, until someway can be found to magnetize it. Either an object has been magnetized and becomes a magnet or it hasn't. It's an assault on reason to call something an unmagnetized magnet, unless everything is an unmagnetized magnet. What you are saying is that some matter has the potentiality of being magnetized. When you "grow" this matter you see little clumps called islands. You interpret these islands as domains, you have no real idea of what they are except clumpings of matter, you can't see polarity (perhaps because there is no such thing in reality), but you interpret what you see withing the framework of the theory that you have been told or learned. But this islands are clumps, they do nothing, until something happens to the material. A jolt, a charge of electricity, some external force is applied to the material that causes it to become a magnet. Whatever, you're the expert. You, Bob and all the rest. An "unmagnetized magnet"? Of course. I have a box of nails that are unmagnetized magnets, silly me I should have thought of that before. Don't pay any attention to me. I'm merely a practical and logical person, looking for physics, not metaphysics. Seems to me that if something moves, something is making it move and all motion requires a current force and a current force requires a physical process. All I see instead are theories built around metaphysics. Things move because of some "inherent" force, a force imparted to matter by the hand of god at the creation of the universe. Such an idea overjoys those who need to see the hand of a god at work in the universe. And what has this wrought us, more metaphysics like this occult and supernatural statement. "The wave nature of an atom is necessarily hidden because, according to theory, the moment a quantum mechanical object is observed, it no longer behaves like a wave." (Dec 97, Discover P 104, Little Beams of Stuff). Is there not a sentient being who can read that statement for what it really is, and what it implies? It means that observation does not validate theory, but theory is sacred because there are "hard" mathematical proofs. (There's a lot of folk who would like to use a similar defense in a court of law). It implies that the atom "knows" it is being watched (has sentience) and is acting contrary and stubborn like a child (has intent, purpose and motive). It also ignores the very simple fact that a wave is a disturbance in a medium and that it is illogical and an assault on reason to even imply that an object has a "wave nature". This is the stuff you guys believe in - the supernatural, the occult, metaphysics and it is called physics. Had a discussion yesterday. Know this from my own experience at university. We go to school and are taught what to think, not how to think and matriculate believing that we are the recipients of Received and Divine Wisdom. I think I will shut up now, leave you "experts" alone with your beliefs. I did find something useful here though - Car runs on water. Have to follow that one up. Please don't feel the need to respond to me, it is obvious to all that I am a mere ignorant dolt that "just doesn't get it". The way to deal with silly asses like me is to just ignore them. Can't believe all of this started because I wanted to know the source of the Earth's EM field and if there was any hard empirical proof of that source. The answer of course was no there isn't, just theory. Which is to say - consensualized opinion. Thank you Lee Markland. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 11:11:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21495; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:08:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:08:35 -0700 From: bpaddock@csonline.net (Bob Paddock) Newsgroups: list.freenrg1 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: 2700 Farad Capacitor Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:07:31 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock@csonline.net Message-ID: Lines: 18 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.27Beta [95/NT] Resent-Message-ID: <"9Togh.0.kF5.YM1-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6295 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: We may or may not have "Free Energy" yet, but we now have a place to store it if we get it. What kind of things can you do with a 2700 FARAD capacitor? 2700 F/2.3V 135 F/14V 96 F/56V See http://www.powercache.com. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/ Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 11:32:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00417; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:30:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:30:45 -0700 Message-ID: <35F81A14.6EA9206D@harti.com> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:27:33 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list , dave dameron , Jean Louis Naudin Subject: Formular for electromagnet please ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zKp7Y.0.Q6.Lh1-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6296 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I have currently a problem. I am looking for the mathematical formular of an aircore electromagnet, but cannot find it. I need the formular, where an cylindrical aircore coil pulls in into its center an cylindrical piece of steel. How is the force F defined, which pulls in the piece of steel into the coil ? I need a formular like: F= ur x u0 x H x n x A x l / r^2 or something like this. It probably depends in square of the distance r and lienarly from the magnetic field H, right ? Can anybody help and find this formular , please ? Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 12:28:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22382; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:22:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:22:00 -0700 Message-ID: <35F8291B.3A166061@servtech.com> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:31:39 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Biefeld-Brown and Neumann Electrodynamics? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6WFs03.0.dT5.NR2-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6297 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have started to look into the Biefeld-Brown effect. I don't seem to be able to find any experimental description and results. Does anyone have a web address for *detailed* experimental setup and test results? Or has anything been published some place? I find *lots* of descriptions of what the effect is suppose to be, but I don't find any detailed accounts of experiments. I would like to know what has been done/tried and with what results, which would also tell me what hasn't been tried. Also, has anyone (else) thought that the experiments reported by Peter Graneau in his books "Ampere-Nuemann Electrodynamics of Metals" and the book "Newtonian Electrodynamics" in which a longitudinal force in the current-carrying metals (and in mercury) is reported, is somehow connected to the Biefeld-Brown force upon the capacitor? I understand that in the one case there is a current "flowing" and in the other there is no current. But in both cases we are stressing the material's lattice and obtainning "unconventional" results. And in both cases the unconversional result is a force (or forces) along the direction of the applied electrical potential. On the other hand, maybe there is a current flowing in both cases. Page 44 of "Ether-technology" by Rho Sigma has a letter from T Townsend Brown in which Brown writes "Bursts of thrust (toward the positive) were observed every time there was a vacuum spark within the large bell jar." "Spark" to me means current flow. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 12:55:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01206; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:52:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:52:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199809101954.QAA30543@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:52:22 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Questions on Newman's motor Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <9a6ad8ba.35f769c9@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"lpjAD2.0.gI.ut2-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6298 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > On 10/09/1998 00:14:31, srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz wrote : > > << > Congratulations, and thank you Jean-Louis for making this experimental > information so readily available to us all. > And my sincere best wishes to you in your further experimental research. > >> > > Thank you very much for your comments, Stuart, your words encourage me to go > further in the exploration in this domain of the research. > > Best Regards, > > Jean-Louis Naudin > (France) > It will be wonderfull if we had a TEAM composed of several JLNs ! --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 13:52:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25148; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:49:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:49:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980911033302.00b559e0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:33:02 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Hubbles Constant, Einstein's 'anti-gravity' In-Reply-To: <00a401bddc97$97b16640$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5UoU12.0.r86._i3-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6299 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From the May - June Newsletter, Science Frontiers, PO Box 107, Glen Arm, MD 21057 THE ACCELERATING UNIVERSE Many laymen are uncomfortable with the Idea that the entire universe originated at an infinitesimal point and is now expanding away from this cosmic navel. Many astronomers are equally disturbed by the recent discovery that all these fleeing stars and galaxies are not being reined in by the force of gravity. In fact, observations of distant supernovas indicate that this exodus of matter is actually speeding up. Some universal repulsive force, it seems, is operating on very-large scales of distance. From an unknown somewhere energy Is being added to all constituents of the cosmos. The universe is more than a cloud of debris flying away from the Big Bang's Ground Zero. Somewhere, perhaps beyond the ken of our primitive instruments, is a fount of energy of which we know nothing. All this is a serious challenge to our understanding of space, time, and matter. Cosmologists are now appealing to quantum mechanical "shimmers," to "X-matter," and to a property called 'quintessence." (Glanz, James; "Exploding Stars Point to a Universal Repulsive Force," Science, 279:651, 1998. Also: Glanz, James; "Astronomers See a Cosmic Antigravity Force at Work," Science, 279-1298, 1998.) Comment by Bill Corliss. When theorists toss around terms like "X-matter' and "quintessence," you can be sure that the basic laws of the universe are still unchalked upon science's big blackboard. God's face is still unread. My comment: Here goes Newtonian Physics again, when the evidence points to the logical conclusion that mass is only a concept, and that mass gravity is not even a valid theory, what do they do? Why they create another and call it the "repulsive force". Well the concept is just that-------repulsive. At 09:07 AM 9/10/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi All > >The other night I watched a documentary revealing the latest values for the >Hubble Constant. > >These latest experiments suggest that not only is the universe expanding, it >is actually accelerating. > >If these results are to be believed, we have to invent a new force that is >in opposition to gravity to account for the acceleration. Einstein >originally 'invented' this force to make his equations fit the then popular >'static universe' theory. After Hubble published his paper, Einstein >apparently said that describing this 'force' was the greatest mistake of his >career. We may now have to rethink our understanding of gravity if the data >is concurred. > > >For those who think I might be inventing this..... >=================================== >Broadcast Type: GB wide transmission >Program Name: Equinox >Station: Channel 4 >Broadcast Time: 21:00 Monday 8 September 1998 >Duration: 1 hour > >Or then again, did I imagine it? > >"If you want to find out anything from the theoretical physicists about the >methods they use, I advise you to stick closely to one principle: Don't >listen to their words, fix your attention on their deeds." Albert Einstein > > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 13:52:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25327; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:49:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:49:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980911044044.00b68910@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 04:40:44 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Water In-Reply-To: <199809101308.JAA14048@transfer.stratus.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980910071331.00796100@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA25238 Resent-Message-ID: <"EGSh52.0.XB6.Kj3-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6300 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:48 AM 9/10/98 -0300, you wrote: >In <3.0.5.32.19980910071331.00796100@rockisland.com>, on 09/10/98 > at 07:13 AM, Lee Markland said: > >>At 03:03 PM 9/9/98 -0300, you wrote: >>>In <3.0.5.32.19980910035013.008f3100@rockisland.com>, on 09/10/98 >>> at 03:50 AM, Lee Markland said: >>> >>>>Could somebody please explain to stupid, stuck up the wrong tree me, how >>>>water can exist on the surface of a body in the prescence of heat, and an >>>>atmosphere hundreds or thousands time that of Earth. >>> >>>The melting/boiling points that we are used to , 0° C and 100° C >>>repectively, are for what is refered to as STP: Standard Tempature and >>>Pressure (well at least pressure in this case). Gas (water vapour) can be >>>forced into a liquid (water) or solid (ice) with the right amount of >>>atmospheric pressure. > >>Thanks, but when I extrapolate that to Jupiter, and consider not only its >>atmospheric pressure but its INTENSE HEAT and LACKING a containment >>bottle to isolate the water as in the propane. I don't see how one can >>have liquid water in such an environment, and if it ain't liquid it ain't >>water. > > >Yes, but using the equation PV=nRT (which is actually for a gas), (R is a >constant, (I forget it's value) and n, the number of moles (?) will not >change since we have a closed system). Then if both P (pressure) and T >(temp) rise proportionately then V (volume) will not change. > >Your containmaint vessel is the planet (athmosphere, gravity, whatever) >itself. > >To see this for yourself, place a small amount of water in a Bell jar and >evacuate it. By keeping T constant and lowering P, V will increase to the >point that the water undergoes a state change. > >-Charlie- > >P.S. Let's next discuss 'Ice Stars' (stars undergoing nuclear fusion yet >it's surface temperature is little above 0° K) In your example you do things that aren't happening on Jupiter. 1. You start out with a temperature, apparently room temperature. Jupiter has a temp of 120 K (cloud tops). 2. You lower pressure, Jupiter has high pressure. 3. There is no bell jar on Jupiter, thus the constituents of water would break down and intermingle with other gases (as they are not isolated). In your example you evacuate the jar leaving only water in a vacuum. Two completely different examples and experiments, no analogy can be drawn. By the way two completely different and very interesting sets of "official" statistics vis a vis Jupiter Note the low atmospheric pressure in one and the differences in temperature at cloud tops. Also note that jpl nasa omits its atmospheric pressure. Temperature cloud tops jpl.nasa 120k. Mean cloud temperature hawastoc.org -121c Earth atmospheric pressure is over 1 bars, Jupiters is supposedly .7 bars Yet gravity alone is suppose to crush satellites exploring its surface. Humm. Kind of thought it was pressure that did the crushing, like when scuba diving. Of course, gravity would crush a satellite when it came to rest upon a solid surface, but Jupiter is a gaseous giant and has no solid surface, but if it has no solid surface then whence the water. Still no satisfactory answer yet. Sorry. http://pds.jpl.nasa.gov/planets/welcome/jupiter.htm Planet Profile Jupiter Mass (kg)............................................1.90 x 10^27 Diameter (km)........................................142,800 Mean density (kg/m^3) ...............................1314 Escape velocity (m/sec)..............................59500 Average distance from Sun (AU).......................5.203 Rotation period (length of day in Earth hours).......9.8 Revolution period (length of year in Earth years)....11.86 Obliquity (tilt of axis in degrees)..................3.08 Orbit inclination (degrees)..........................1.3 Orbit eccentricity (deviation from circular).........0.048 Mean surface temperature (K).........................120 (cloud tops) Visual geometric albedo (reflectivity)...............0.44 Atmospheric components...............................90% hydrogen, 10% helium, .07% methane Rings................................................Faint ring. Infrared spectra imply dark rock fragments. http://www.hawastsoc.org/solar/eng/jupiter.htm#stats Mass (kg) Mass (kg) 1.900e+27 Mass (Earth = 1) Mass (Earth = 1) 3.1794e+02 Equatorial radius (km) Equatorial radius (km) 71,492 Equatorial radius (Earth = 1) Equatorial radius (Earth = 1) 1.1209e+01 Mean density (gm/cm^3) Mean density (gm/cm^3) 1.33 Mean distance from the Sun (km) Mean distance from the Sun (km) 778,330,000 Mean distance from the Sun (Earth = 1) Mean distance from the Sun (Earth = 1) 5.2028 Rotational period (days) Rotational period (days) 0.41354 Orbital period (days) Orbital period (days) 4332.71 Mean orbital velocity (km/sec) Mean orbital velocity (km/sec) 13.07 Orbital eccentricity Orbital eccentricity 0.0483 Tilt of axis (degrees) Tilt of axis (degrees) 3.13 Orbital inclination (degrees) Orbital inclination (degrees) 1.308 Equatorial surface gravity (m/sec^2) Equatorial surface gravity (m/sec^2) 22.88 Equatorial escape velocity (km/sec) Equatorial escape velocity (km/sec) 59.56 Visual geometric albedo Visual geometric albedo 0.52 Magnitude (Vo) Magnitude (Vo) -2.70 Mean cloud temperature Mean cloud temperature -121°C Atmospheric pressure (bars) Atmospheric pressure (bars) 0.7 Atmospheric composition Hydrogen Helium 90% 90% 10% From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 14:08:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00913; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:06:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:06:03 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980910210739.006d37b4@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:07:39 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Oops, Sorry Richard Wood Resent-Message-ID: <"bndCp.0.BE.wy3-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6301 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:00 AM 9/10/98 +0100, you wrote: >Richard, you made a worthwhile and valid point and I hope you accept my >apologies. In future I will try to include text that can be verified. Nothin to apologize for. No offense intended. Just venting a personal pet peeve of mine. Thats whats great about this list is we can make comments and accept or reject any responses as we see fit or as the circumstances dictate. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 14:09:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01191; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:06:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:06:15 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980910210749.006f4f3c@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:07:49 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: RE DISINFORMATION Resent-Message-ID: <"pXsvM2.0.BI.6z3-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6302 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:46 AM 9/10/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hello Richard and All > > >This coming from someone who stated > >"Why do we need to hook a scope up? If he has a penlight battery at one end >and a standard 110 v light bulb burning at the other I don't care what the >little electrons are doing I am seeing over unity. " > >Now that's promoting disinformation. We can buy a variant on these >'FREE-NRG' machines at our local computer store. Why are we bothering >discussing anything else? Sorry if I didn't make my point clearer but if some one is able to run a 120v bulb off a penlight battery for an "extended" period I would be more apt to believe in his statement of overunity that I would if a guy shows me overunity spikes on a scope. I am a couple points dumber than a dandelion so I have a hard time seeing how my original statement promoted disinformation. Just my own meager way of understanding physics. Lets keep the flames off this list. If you disagree please respond privately so as not to bother the other list members. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 15:52:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14706; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:44:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:44:40 -0700 Message-ID: <35F95E09.806@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:29:45 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ohms Law References: <199809100407.VAA22656@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SJlhr2.0.ib3.NP5-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6303 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi again Dave! I really DO love your sense of humour Dave. You had me fooled there for a minute ......:-)) ............ROFLMAO................ "Down Under".......in the "Antipodes".......in the Back-side of Beyond, we still have this quaint notion that Ohm's Law means: V=IR ...... I=V/R ....... R=V/I ....... P=IR ....... etc. And we sometimes calculate the field H as..... 0.4PiNI/L Still ROFLMAO.....:-) > > Unless you explain it's importance to the results, I used an ideal 12 Volt > supply instead of a battery. Less busywork calculations :-). > I was just being 'sneaky' Dave . If your supply has an internal resistance like that, it means that the voltage is a little HIGHER across the second coil, but the current is LESS, and the circuit power is LESS,..... BUT the magnetic field strength is GREATER! Oops......... In other words, less electrical power, less electrical energy, and a bigger, stronger magnetic field to play with . So where does it come from? It's not from an increased electrical current!... that went down! It's not because we fired more electrical power at it.... that went down too! And please don't say that it took longer to get it up to .5LI^2. At this point we're talking about sustaining the field AFTER 5 or 6 L/R. > > (Is there any significance of 1 time constant?) > Only in terms of what I just said. > > >By the way, what is the voltage across the inductor in the two different > >cases? > > > The actual wire, 12 Volts. Why? > Just me being 'sneaky' again Dave...... Trying to squeeze the voltage up a twitch while still reducing the current . > > So how does this disprove Ohms law? > Not trying to "disprove" or say it doesn't 'work' Dave. Just the assumption, and perhaps the incorrect premise that it has been formulated from. That is, that the prime nature of an electrical current (and the cause of a magnetic field) is the movement of electrons or charge carriers in a conductor. I would be more inclined to conclude from ALL the experimental evidence, that the movement of electrons is simply a secondary effect of another far more immediate, but equally 'substantial', cause. In which case, Ohm's Law would be only a 'special case' of a particular electrical effect. Regards, Stuart -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 16:31:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29733; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:27:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:27:33 -0700 Message-ID: <35F96908.51F2@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:16:40 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ohms Law References: <199809100407.VAA22656@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nJtpC2.0.PG7.b16-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6304 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stuart Rae wrote: > > "Down Under".......in the "Antipodes".......in the Back-side of Beyond, we > still have this quaint notion that Ohm's Law means: > > V=IR ...... I=V/R ....... R=V/I ....... P=IR ....... etc. > Oops.... sorry.... typo.... Should read: V=IR ...... I=V/R ....... R=V/I ....... P=I^2R ....... etc. SR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 21:39:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08267; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:36:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:36:02 -0700 From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: <199809110437.AAA04471@juliet.its.uwo.ca> X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:30:42 -0400 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Davis Turbine Cc: jmanning@axionet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZXgCH3.0.112.nYA-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6305 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have been trying to find information on the Davis Turbine on the net but have not found much. I believe in J. Manning's "Free Energy Book" she mentions that plans are available on the net. Has anyone found these?? Thx Chris Gupta From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 22:28:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA23202; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:27:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:27:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199809110528.BAA32515@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Faraday replications via NIB-mercury Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:49:59 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"woxP32.0.Rg5.uIB-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6306 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Once upon a time Faraday made a correspondence that reached into our time frame via public television circa 1988. This seemed important to my friend who had taped the episode. We later set about to duplicate his experiment using the Neodium-Iron-Boron alloy magnets available in 1988. In the original two different effects are shown; one is shown through a suspended rod into contact with a pool of mercury in a dish. The magnet is introduced into the pool of mercury upon which it floats due the density of mercury. When the rod and pool of mercury is subjected to the polarity difference of a battery the rod will rotate around the suspended magnet. This is an easily reproducible effect. But in the public television special they also showed the opposite effect whereby Faraday showed that if the rod made a straight connection into the mercury the magnet will rotate around the rod. In the film it shows that as the magnet rotates it does an unusual twisting manuever. Almost like during every revolution it was attempting to untwist itself. This we tried to duplicate with little success. What would happen is that the magnet would tend to hug the current carrying rod, and not rotate around it. As discoveries go it was soon noticed that if the rod was raised the neodymium disc readily offered its center to the conduction point when the disc itself began to spin in the pool of mercury. I didnt like these experiments because I could see that ten amps of current sparking on mercury creating wisps of deadly smoke was not the place to be. But the remarkable thing consists of the fact that the NIB magnet could readily pass 10 amps of current without damaging it. Or then again maybe i need to review other peoples opinion in this matter. Sincerly H.Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 22:46:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA28524; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:45:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:45:31 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chicken eggs (not so off-topic ?) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 05:46:44 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3600b864.181569548@mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Qunil3.0.cz6.wZB-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6307 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:32:29 -0500 (CDT), Zack Widup wrote: [snip] >He mentioned he thought originally there could have been gases coming out >of the stove, but then realized that to generate enough heat to turn the >iron red-hot, there must be a tremendous draw of air into the stove. >Probably enough to create a lower pressure inside than outside it. So >any improperly combusted gases went up the chimney, not into the room. So he thinks the CO was formed on the outside? Sorry, but I think it's more likely that stoves being the shape they are, air flow through the stove would contain eddy currents, which could easily carry CO out through cracks at the corners etc. > >(That was his theory, not mine). Understood. > >Zack Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 22:52:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29063; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:46:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:46:50 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:52:24 -0700 Subject: Re: Cooling Effect and TEC Message-ID: <19980910.205440.12046.2.tv@juno.com> References: <199809091339.JAA18431@transfer.stratus.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5,7,9-19 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"4XqyL.0.x57.9bB-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6308 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 09 Sep 98 09:31:15 -0300 Charlie Hodgson writes: >Why must the heat move somewhere? If an electron slows down wouldn't >it absorb heat and store it as potential energy? Or perhaps kinetic energy ? In any case the TEC process would be converting low grade fluctuation energy to high grade energy. It would seem to be a macroscopic violation of the 2nd Law, but really it could thought of as countless atomic heat engines workings in a coherent manor. > >-Charlie- > > Tim ( tv@juno.com ) _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 23:17:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03448; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:12:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:12:29 -0700 To: MH2_BRIGGS@ODNVMS.A1.Ohio.Gov Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:47:34 -0700 Subject: Re: The Newman's Energy Machine - Cooling Effect Message-ID: <19980910.205440.12046.1.tv@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,5-7,9-17,19,21,23-31,33-52 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"m65JB.0.hr.CzB-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6309 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 09 Sep 1998 15:05:47 -0400 (EDT) Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 writes: >JLN did indicate that there was an ambient air temperature increase in >the area of the device. He made a point of having isolation periods, and not >contaminating the test area with intrusive sampling. Maybe the motor is like a heat pump except it uses electricity as a refrigerant ? > >Also where was his generated electricity going, did he keep track of >the ambient temperatures at that end as well? Needs more clarification I think. > >You may be able to isolate out the mechanical friction component by >turning the device with an extended shaft and removing the magnetic component. >The electrical-resistance generated heat is a different matter. Does all >the heat given off due to just resistance, or is some of it carried by the >electrons from it's source. > >If it was happening how would you differentiate the two effects? > >Has there been any work done on observing ambient temperatures in >generation site to consumption site in sealed environments? > I would like to see what would happen to the temperature of a Newman coil operating in a heavily insulated (like styrofoam) box. >Has there been any work on observing difference in resistive heat >generation in magnetic & equal but non magnetic devices? I don't think so. >Still just an amateur asking dumb questions, Me too. > >William E. Briggs Jr. >webriggs@concentric.net > Thanks for the thoughtful input. Tim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 23:21:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA05136; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:17:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:17:55 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:19:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809110619.XAA27949@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Ohms Law (Electromagnets) Resent-Message-ID: <"5JBNI.0.AG1.J2C-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6310 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stuart and all! At 10:29 AM 9/11/98 -0700, you wrote: Well I am glad you have a sense of humor! I need some right now. I actually agree with you in spirit about how to wind electromagnets. Only disagree on a point or two. > >Still ROFLMAO.....:-) I just found out what this stands for :-). > >> >> Unless you explain it's importance to the results, I used an ideal 12 Volt >> supply instead of a battery. Less busywork calculations :-). >> > >I was just being 'sneaky' Dave . If your supply has an internal resistance >like that, OK, this time I will use a 1 Ohm power supply resistance in both cases. it means that the voltage is a little HIGHER across the second >coil, Yes, I agree but the current is LESS, Yes again, a little more than 50% and the circuit power is LESS,..... .. still yes BUT the >magnetic field strength is GREATER! Oops......... Why Oops? The N*I/distance has no explicit constraint on power? Remember the superconductor electromagnet example? > >In other words, less electrical power, less electrical *energy*, OOPS, Stuart!!! We are still in the 1 time constant example. I think you are wrong here. Since you have given me 2 "homework" assignments, here is one for you: What is the L/R ratio for coil No. 2 divided by the L/R for coil No. 1? Use any power supply R in your spec's, that is <5.6 Ohms. I will accept an answer to 1 decimal digit. :-) How then do you calculate energy, given the power? and a bigger, >stronger magnetic field to play with . >So where does it come from? >It's not from an increased electrical current!... that went down!, Yes about 50% >It's not because we fired more electrical power at it.... that went down too! The steady state, about 50% > >And please don't say that it took longer to get it up to .5LI^2. Why not? It appears this is where you made your error:-). At this >point we're talking about sustaining the field AFTER 5 or 6 L/R. Changing the rules, again Stuart? :-) Why didn't you say so before? Then you could have said that coil No.2 has about the same field for ~1/2 the input power. And 2X the volume. I agree. More "efficient" But where is this power going? And since we are now talking about 5 or > L/R, What about for both coils: Energy delivered by the battery - energy dissipated in the R? By the way, You said before: Quote: >Also, if you put one watt into a big coil, it will create a much larger >field than if you put one watt into a small coil. (When doing this >experiment, you can set the volts/amps to whatever the coil will tolerate, >the only requirement is that the wattage be the same for both coils.) So, >to reduce the inefficiency losses in a magnetic system, put more pounds of >copper in the coils. It's a rule of thumb. Well *sort of* a rule of thumb... Lets define the "Stuart_goodness_factor" as Volume of wire*input power. For coil No. 2 it is about = to coil No.1, and the same H. ((2X volume as noted before, 1/2 power). Good! Here is another example. Take coil No. 1 and add 10% more turns, still in the same layer. Now crank up the voltage a bit to get the same power. The Stuart_goodness_factor is now 110%. What H do we get for this? -5% :-( And another example: Take a solenoid of length L, inner diameter d, and outer diameter D. It can be any number of layers. Scale it by 2X. That is: L=L*2 d=d*2 D=D*2 Lets leave the number of turns the same. So: Cross section of wire = 4X Length of wire = 2X Volume of wire = 8X Resistance of wire 0.5X Lets leave the current density the same, still Cu, so Current = Current X4 Voltage=Voltage X2 Watts = watts X8 The Stuart_goodness_factor has been increased 64X What did we gain for our trouble? H increased (at center) 2X only! :-/ Where am I coming from? About a year or so ago I decided to design an air core electromagnet with a field of 1 Tesla (10,000 gauss). Why 1 T? Well strong Neodym magnets can have that field intensity. Can I match it? Transformers (with closed magnetic paths) easily have this field. Why air core? Well it is hard to insert things into an iron core! Besides I might get ambitious and want 20,000 gauss, 30,000 gauss, etc. Why have an iron core here??? Well I got out my books and learned about current loops, solenoids, and how to combine them into multi layers. Started calculating turns... Boy was I in for a surprise!!! Not only is (No. turns)*I important, but so is the 1/distance! (See above example No.2, scaled 2X) (Remember your coil NO.2 only had a 8.4 gauss field) I found: 100 Gauss, no sweat... 1000 Gauss, well not trivial but I can do it. 2000 Gauss: How many seconds would you like it on? 10,000 Gauss? WHAT. Maybe with a capacitive discharge circuit. Now if you, Stuart can fit 100,000 turns of your 2mm wire into a cylinder 10cm long * 10cm diameter :-), THAT would be some magnet! Then to top it all off, heard on a radio show that the magnets on the "Philadelphia experiment" had 100 Tesla fields! SURE!!! Try this sometime. (And after that I found the "gravity resonance coil" with field of "only" 30 and 6 gauss... >Not trying to "disprove" or say it doesn't 'work' Dave. Just the assumption, >and perhaps the incorrect premise that it has been formulated from. That is, >that the prime nature of an electrical current (and the cause of a magnetic >field) is the movement of electrons or charge carriers in a conductor. > >I would be more inclined to conclude from ALL the experimental evidence, that >the movement of electrons is simply a secondary effect of another far more >immediate, but equally 'substantial', cause. In which case, Ohm's Law would >be only a 'special case' of a particular electrical effect. Am still looking for ANY experimental evidence... > >Regards, > >Stuart > >-- >============================= >S. N. Rae, >Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. >mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz > ps. >Within simple inductive constraints, and using conventional calculations, it >is clear that for a given input power required to maintain a steady-state >magnetic field in a coil, that: > >1) the magnetic field strength is proportional to the square root of the >volume of wire used times the square root of the input power, Can you describe the "Simple inductive constraints"? And thanks for your time. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 23:23:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06443; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:21:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:21:57 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:29:09 -0700 Subject: Re: TEC, 'laser' in wire Message-ID: <19980910.205440.12046.0.tv@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-8,10,21-22,26-29,32-40,42-57,59-65 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"lg8oD2.0.Ra1.46C-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6312 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Remi, If you get Infinite Energy magazine, checkout the article on page 49 of the latest issue Volume 4, Issue 20. The article, "The Theory of Excess Energy in a PAGD Reactor" by Prof. Lev G. Sapogin seems to propose a similar idea to Transient Electron Coherence(TEC), but in a plasma instead on a conductor. I am not familiar with the "maternity home solution" and the math is a bit beyond my experience, but I believe it describes a coherence of electrons as source of added energy during a gas discharge. Sagopin describes an asymmetric "potential well: created by an electric field. See figure 6 on page 51. I think this is a more abstract way of describing free electron behavior in the midst of periodic potentials such as electrons amongst ions in a plasma (or metal). This also would seem to me to be a transient phenomena because the potential wells would presumably build up energy as oscillating electrons and then periodically dump as a coherent pulse when induced by periodic gas breakdowns (abnormal glow discharges described by Correa). This idea may be just another way of describing the TEC effect, if it really exists. The TEC idea came to me a few years ago after reading a book called "Electrons in Metals" which described the free electron theory in a comprehensible way. J. Naudin's interesting results have encouraged me to take a second look. If this TEC idea has merit, why not in a plasma ? There needs to be more experiments to verify and perhaps optimize the cooling effect in the Newman type coil. A Newman coil could be run in styrofoam box for example. Best Wishes, Tim ( tv@juno.com ) On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:06:45 +0100 (BST) Remi Cornwall writes: >Dear Tim, > >I think all the laser talk of mine is bollocks. I just want to know >how to calculate a few things which could explain why:- > >. The excitation frequency and the mark space ratio of the pulse (how >long it needs to be on for in the period) > >. The surge current, maybe its profile or some means of approximating >it as a pulse. > >We know the voltage, the pd across the wire. We can work out the power >and then work > >You explaination then might shed light on how to make it better. I am >puzzled why the effect should get better in long lines - the more resistive, >the more effect. > >Confused, >Remi. > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 10 23:29:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06226; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:21:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:21:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199809110622.CAA27546@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Faraday considerations. Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:44:18 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Q2VaF3.0.CX1.n5C-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6311 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: One of the most mysterious observations claim to be from the days of Faraday; that a long circuit of conductance divided by 3 points; the begining,the middle,and the end. That consists of three air gaps; yet when conduction occurs Faraday noticed that an arc occured across the middle before the ends! Now what kind of person would go to them measures to construct and measure by mirrors? such a thing so long ago? It baffles my mind to say the least.Electric-magnetic interaction was easily deducable, but I wouldnt mind if someone else can explain with permissible spelling errors how this can be? Agian Yevrah mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 00:20:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA24506; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:14:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:14:30 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TEC, 'laser' in wire Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:15:45 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3601cd50.186927641@mail-hub> References: <19980910.205440.12046.0.tv@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19980910.205440.12046.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Y3F3d2.0.n-5.MtC-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6313 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:29:09 -0700, Tim Vaughan wrote: [snip] >I am not familiar with the "maternity home solution" and the math is a >bit beyond AFAIK, the "maternity home solution" refers to the creation of particles from the ZPE. There is also a matching mortuary. Normally both effects balance, resulting in conservation laws as a macroscopic phenomenon, but not microscopic. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 01:08:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA32704; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:56:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:56:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199809110758.DAA14812@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: Subject: Re: Biefeld-Brown and Neumann Electrodynamics? Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:19:28 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qVEtU.0.r-7.6VD-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6314 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rho Sigma was T.T.Browns handle or nickname or alias,depending how one wishes to view it. Too bad the good die young at heart. That leaves the rest of us to make up the difference. ---------- > From: Robert Gray > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Biefeld-Brown and Neumann Electrodynamics? > Date: Thursday, September 10, 1998 2:31 PM > > I have started to look into the Biefeld-Brown effect. I don't seem to > be able to find any experimental description and results. Does anyone > have a web address for *detailed* experimental setup and test results? > Or has anything been published some place? > > I find *lots* of descriptions of what the effect is suppose to be, but I > don't find any > detailed accounts of experiments. I would like to know what has been > done/tried and > with what results, which would also tell me what hasn't been tried. > > Also, has anyone (else) thought that the experiments reported by Peter > Graneau in his books > "Ampere-Nuemann Electrodynamics of Metals" and the book "Newtonian > Electrodynamics" > in which a longitudinal force in the current-carrying metals (and in > mercury) is > reported, is somehow connected to the Biefeld-Brown force upon the > capacitor? I understand > that in the one case there is a current "flowing" and in the other there > is no current. But in > both cases we are stressing the material's lattice and obtainning > "unconventional" results. And in > both cases the unconversional result is a force (or forces) along the > direction of the applied > electrical potential. > > On the other hand, maybe there is a current flowing in both cases. Page > 44 of "Ether-technology" > by Rho Sigma has a letter from T Townsend Brown in which Brown writes > "Bursts of thrust (toward > the positive) were observed every time there was a vacuum spark within > the large bell jar." > "Spark" to me means current flow. > > Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 03:26:00 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA23869; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:23:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:23:15 -0700 Message-ID: <01e201bddd6e$afce0ee0$291a0fcb@glenvils> From: "Glenville Sawyer" To: Subject: Off-Topic - but not all ! Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 19:55:49 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"r6yuK3.0.tq5.JeF-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6315 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Firstly before I steer away... The APFUEL Hydrogen generation concept by under-water Carbon Arc is rather interesting - those that have read the article would see SOME parallels to "Joe-X" - but not TOO many ! O.k onto the "meat" of my question, out there how many others suffer from bad R.F / Broad-band radiation from their P.C Monitor ??? My P.C is clean and reasonably quiet across the High Frequency R.F Bands, but while ever the monitor is running ( hard to use the P.C without it really ), then the "HASH" level around here increases DRAMATICALLY, yes it has the customary FCC radiation sticker etc etc, but that seems to mean Diddly in actual terms. I have tried a "Ferrite Clamp" on the power lead, tried running from a different power outlet to the receiver and P.C, and have tried a "Fe Clamp" also on the VGA cable to the monitor, can anyone throw some more (hopefully Easy) to implement ideas my way ? Thanks - trust me I need all the help I can get. P.S Was on the 'Phone tonight to Geoff Egel, his P.C is totally down, and will be a week or so before his new machine will available - this DOES not affect his excellent web site. Regards, Glenville Sawyer. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 03:35:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA26279; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:32:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:32:37 -0700 Message-ID: <007f01bddd6f$68eb4780$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Electromagnets Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:52:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"CqF6k.0.WQ6.4nF-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6316 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave and All -----Original Message----- From: dave dameron >Where am I coming from? About a year or so ago I decided to design an air >core electromagnet with a field of 1 Tesla (10,000 gauss). Why 1 T? Well >strong Neodym magnets can have that field intensity. Can I match it? >Transformers (with closed magnetic paths) easily have this field. >Why air core? Well it is hard to insert things into an iron core! Besides I Dave, it would be very interesting if you posted some 'keys' on winding electromagnets. Why couldn't you use a large soft iron (or something with better permeability) 'C' core and stick things in the gap? You could then increase the flux density by reducing the CSA of the gap pieces. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 03:35:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA26297; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:32:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:32:40 -0700 Message-ID: <008001bddd6f$6b70b9e0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: , Subject: Re: Faraday considerations. Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:31:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"fZH9O2.0.pQ6.8nF-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6317 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Meat Truck and All I've seen this effect as well while messing around with a 8KV laser power supply. I even went as far as placing photo-diodes to look at each gap (through optical fibre). The middle gap did (apparently) arc first, and also the PCB between was blacker than between the outer joints. Capacitive explanations didn't seem to explain it. The 'gaps' were simply solder joints on a PCB. The middle 'gaps' were supposed to be connected but I forgot to do this. Also, l have seen high speed photographs of lightning strikes to ground. Just before the actual strike, a number of arcs approx. 2 metre long emanated from the ground. The actual strike seemed to 'combine' with the tallest arc. (I saw this on Discovery Channel). -----Original Message----- From: Meat Truck >One of the most mysterious observations claim to be from the days of >Faraday; that a long circuit of conductance divided by 3 points; the >begining,the middle,and the end. That consists of three air gaps; yet when >conduction occurs Faraday noticed that an arc occured across the middle >before the ends! Now what kind of person would go to them measures to >construct and measure by mirrors? such a thing so long ago? It baffles my >mind to say the least.Electric-magnetic interaction was easily deducable, >but I wouldnt mind if someone else can explain with permissible spelling >errors how this can be? Agian Yevrah mnorris@akron.infi.net Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 04:11:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA30318; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 04:01:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 04:01:24 -0700 Message-ID: <35F90250.14B1A4D7@harti.com> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:58:25 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: Re: Steel kinetic energy bigger than energy needed for coil ? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"irUmS.0.ZP7.4CG-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6318 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> HI Stefan, >> The force on the edge of the steel where the magnetic lines are, is >> F=(permeability, u0)*H^2*Area/2. >> Of course H is a function of distance r and is a very nonlinear function, >> being a ferromagnetic material (as well as I, etc.) > > > Where is the permeability uR in this case in the formular ? > Does it go into H, as B= u0xuRxH ?? > > > >> >> >> >> >> This has assumed that H is that in air and <> When the steel is in the center, the magnetic field is conimg from both >> ends, so here the net force is zero. > Okay, I will try Quickfield, when I have more time.. I want to see, if I can get a case, where the Force along its way= energy won by the steel is bigger than the energy needed to power up the coil for one L/R timeconstant... Could be possible with the right dimensions of the steel and the coil..I guess... -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 06:28:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA23623; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:26:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:26:16 -0700 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:27:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Chicken eggs (not so off-topic ?) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3600b864.181569548@mail-hub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2cd7f1.0._m5.uJI-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6319 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > On Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:32:29 -0500 (CDT), Zack Widup wrote: > [snip] > >He mentioned he thought originally there could have been gases coming out > >of the stove, but then realized that to generate enough heat to turn the > >iron red-hot, there must be a tremendous draw of air into the stove. > >Probably enough to create a lower pressure inside than outside it. So > >any improperly combusted gases went up the chimney, not into the room. > > So he thinks the CO was formed on the outside? Sorry, but I think it's > more likely that stoves being the shape they are, air flow through the > stove would contain eddy currents, which could easily carry CO out > through cracks at the corners etc. > > > >(That was his theory, not mine). > > Understood. > > He thought the CO was transmuted inside the human body from nitrogen gas. By his theory, the nitrogen gas was still nitrogen gas, albeit in a "metastable" state, when it was breathed. The iron workers doing electric arc welding who also got CO poisoning was a similar occurrance. The arc welding didn't produce any carbon monoxide, yet they were getting poisoned by it. He attributed it to the same phomenon - nitrogen gas made metastable by red-hot iron, then breathed and turned into carbon monoxide iside the body. Who would like to volunteer for an experiment? It would be a simple matter to heat a plate of iron red hot with a propane torch (the blue flame produces no carbon monoxide, only carbon dioxide and water vapor). Just breathe over the red-hot plate for an hour or so. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 06:49:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA29356; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:48:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:48:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199809111350.KAA30852@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:48:59 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Bessler Wheel anyone ? Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br CC: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"cr_8Y3.0.bA7.-eI-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6320 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anyone experimenting with the Bessler Wheel ? Long time I heard nothing more about. --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 07:22:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA08005; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:19:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:19:21 -0700 Message-ID: <35F9313C.1FAB@sp.zrz.tu-berlin.de> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:18:36 +0200 From: bgoeksel@physik.tu-berlin.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Vortex models etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dqEMJ1.0._y1.f5J-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6321 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All! If you are interested in Tesla technologies and vortex models of the photon (swinging electron-positron pair?) and other particle structures, you can find a lot of interesting infos in the lectures of Prof. Konstantin Meyl (Germany). It's really a refreshing work, though it partly defines new dogmas. However, you can take what you can need. There are similarities to the forgotten Lord Kelvin vortex models and present advances in electromagnetism (existence of longitudinal solutions (--> Lehnert, Evans, Vigier etc.), photon is not identical with his antipart --> graviton=photon/antiphoton pair? --> timeless or killing time?). One problem: The work is in German and the download file is about 4.8 Mbyte. The web location is http://www.fh-furtwangen.de/TA-WWW/start.html. But the script can also be purchased (DM 24,50). In my other mails I talked about forgotten unified field theories or ansatzes. The authors are Prof. Dr. Hans-Georg Kuessner and Dr.(?) Burkhard Heim (mentioned by Maj. Keyhoe, also named together with Prof. Pascal Jordan, Dr. Edward Teller etc. in an article about electrogravity in the 50s. Look into Rho Sigma!). Searching for the first author in the net will give you no result. I was told that Heim has the today's most advanced quantum gravity theory ever developed and theoretical physics is going his way step by step. He also did some experimental proposals to leading aerospace companies in the very past and more recent times. So it could be interesting for people who have a good background in mathematics and physics. Nobody knows why he never published in a pre-reviewed mainstream journal etc. I don't want to speculate. But he is alive and can be asked. I visited him several month ago in Northeim. Dr. Hans Nieper has wrote in great respect about Heim in his latest books on the 'Revolution in Medicine,...'. People in the so-called free-energy research area may know Dr. Nieper well. On the other hand, Prof. Kuessner didn't like things like metric and used hypercomplex algebra (quaternions). One can find a lot of parallels to the studies of Tom Bearden and present advances in electromagnetism. Prof. Meyl's lectures are based on Prof. Kuessner's life work. By the way, Prof. Kuessner was a world leading and recognized expert in aeroelasticity though never mentioned in the web. Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 07:55:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA23374; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:52:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:52:21 -0700 Message-ID: <008601bddd93$adf22320$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Faraday considerations. Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:51:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"3FCLk2.0.gi5.YaJ-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6322 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Meat Truck and All (After more thought) The PCB was actually just a fibre glass sheet with holes drilled in it. I had thought that something was arcing to the middle joints on the other side of the fg sheet. Not wanting to get a 8KV shock I had the photo-diodes to look at the other side (in the bottom, unviewable side of the case), but not seeing any arc I placed them on the other side. The supply generated an initial 8KV pulse to 'strike' the laser tube, then dropped to about 2KV. The arcing only occurred during the initial 'strike'. The arcing only occurred on one side of the sheet, despite their being larger conductive objects on the other side (smaller gaps). Seems that I'm the sort of person that will spend time looking at something like this :-) After I had seen this effect I joined the middle two joints, the laser worked, and put the gap arcing down to experience. More fun to be had with the laser :-) Anyone got any clues as to what may have caused this effect? -----Original Message----- From: David Callaghan >Hi Meat Truck and All > >I've seen this effect as well while messing around with a 8KV laser power >supply. I even went as far as placing photo-diodes to look at each gap >(through optical fibre). The middle gap did (apparently) arc first, and >also the PCB between was blacker than between the outer joints. Capacitive >explanations didn't seem to explain it. The 'gaps' were simply solder >joints on a PCB. The middle 'gaps' were supposed to be connected but I >forgot to do this. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 08:30:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06955; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:28:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:28:08 -0700 Message-ID: <35F940B5.B5430B65@harti.com> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 17:24:38 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mark@plug-in.com.br, freenrg-l Subject: Re: Bessler Wheel anyone ? References: <199809111350.KAA30852@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RIJXP3.0.bi1.76K-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6323 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Marcelo Puhl wrote: > Anyone experimenting with the Bessler Wheel ? > > Long time I heard nothing more about. > > --- > Marcelo Puhl > mark@plug-in.com.br > Hi, have a look into: www.overunity.com/gb the modern version of it. In about 2 weeks the demo unit will be fixed again and hopefully run again and will be videotaped... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 09:25:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24223; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:19:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:19:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199809111621.NAA18278@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:11:15 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Off-Topic - PC Monitor Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <01e201bddd6e$afce0ee0$291a0fcb@glenvils> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"XICXI.0.Ew5.isK-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6324 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > I have tried a "Ferrite Clamp" on the power lead, tried running from a > different power outlet to the receiver and P.C, and have tried a "Fe Clamp" > also on the VGA cable to the monitor, can anyone throw some more (hopefully > Easy) to implement ideas my way ? > - Try making a Faraday's cage inside the monitor with aluminum sheet and grounding it to the monitor's chassis. - Make sure the signal cable is shielded. - Put those Ferrite Clamps on all cables, near the monitor's end. Hope this helps. --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 09:33:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03789; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:31:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:31:21 -0700 (PDT) From: binghac@zip.arc.losrios.cc.ca.us Message-Id: <199809111623.JAA16970@zip.arc.losrios.cc.ca.us> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 11 Sep 98 09:23:04 -0700 X-Mailer: ZipMail v1.21 X-Mailer-Info: http://zip.arc.losrios.cc.ca.us/ Resent-Message-ID: <"xjuik1.0.7x.N1L-r"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6325 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------------------------------------------------------------------ corbinj ------------------------------------------------------------------ unsubscribe- cancel all mail From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 09:35:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03957; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809111625.NAA19873@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:11:15 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Off-Topic - PC Monitor Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <01e201bddd6e$afce0ee0$291a0fcb@glenvils> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"Iclgv.0.jz.F3L-r"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6326 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > I have tried a "Ferrite Clamp" on the power lead, tried running from a > different power outlet to the receiver and P.C, and have tried a "Fe Clamp" > also on the VGA cable to the monitor, can anyone throw some more (hopefully > Easy) to implement ideas my way ? > - Try making a Faraday's cage inside the monitor with aluminum sheet and grounding it to the monitor's chassis. - Make sure the signal cable is shielded. - Put those Ferrite Clamps on all cables, near the monitor's end. Hope this helps. --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 11:02:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01593; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:57:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:57:56 -0700 Message-ID: <35F96486.3D8A@sp.zrz.tu-berlin.de> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 19:57:26 +0200 From: aybchgdj@cetus.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Keely and Vibratory Physics Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-yNjB.0.kO.YIM-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6327 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All! Some time ago I found following website: Sympathetic Vibratory Physics - It's a Musical Universe! http://www.svpvril.com/. In case of interest you can also find some infos about quaternions (http://www.svpvril.com/Quat.html), their relation to prime numbers ('A Quaternion is the square root of a prime number') etc. It's really fascinating (magic) number theory. Maybe someone knows the books of Peter Plichta. I don't accept everything he is writing. However, his book is also available through Infinite Energy Magazine Online http://www.mv.com/ipusers/zeropoint/. Does anyone could ever succesfully reproduce the Keely devices? Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 11:34:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13739; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:30:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:30:28 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:35:35 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Re: Faraday considerations. URL Resent-Message-ID: <"mnAWe.0.MM3.2nM-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6328 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See: http://www.padrak.com/ine/SUBJECTS.html#F >One of the most mysterious observations claim to be from the days of >Faraday; that a long circuit of conductance divided by 3 points; the >begining,the middle,and the end. That consists of three air gaps; yet when >conduction occurs Faraday noticed that an arc occured across the middle >before the ends! Now what kind of person would go to them measures to >construct and measure by mirrors? such a thing so long ago? It baffles my >mind to say the least.Electric-magnetic interaction was easily deducable, >but I wouldnt mind if someone else can explain with permissible spelling >errors how this can be? Agian Yevrah mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 11:36:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14904; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:33:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:33:02 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:35:32 -0800 To: mark@plug-in.com.br, freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Re: Bessler Wheel anyone ? Resent-Message-ID: <"rn6_T2.0.le3.SpM-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6329 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See: http://www.padrak.com/ine/SUBJECTS.html#B and do a find for Bessler. There ya go... PB. >Anyone experimenting with the Bessler Wheel ? > >Long time I heard nothing more about. > >--- >Marcelo Puhl >mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 11:50:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22405; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:47:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:47:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980911023950.00b8e140@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 02:39:50 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Biefeld-Brown and Neumann Electrodynamics? In-Reply-To: <199809110758.DAA14812@fh102.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ncFQf2.0.uT5.01N-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6330 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Correction Rho Sigma was really Rolf Schaffranke, not T.T. Brown. Some else on this list can validate that At 12:19 AM 9/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >Rho Sigma was T.T.Browns handle or nickname or alias,depending how one >wishes to view it. >Too bad the good die young at heart. That leaves the rest of us to make up >the difference. >---------- >> From: Robert Gray >> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: Biefeld-Brown and Neumann Electrodynamics? >> Date: Thursday, September 10, 1998 2:31 PM >> >> I have started to look into the Biefeld-Brown effect. I don't seem to >> be able to find any experimental description and results. Does anyone >> have a web address for *detailed* experimental setup and test results? >> Or has anything been published some place? >> >> I find *lots* of descriptions of what the effect is suppose to be, but I >> don't find any >> detailed accounts of experiments. I would like to know what has been >> done/tried and >> with what results, which would also tell me what hasn't been tried. >> >> Also, has anyone (else) thought that the experiments reported by Peter >> Graneau in his books >> "Ampere-Nuemann Electrodynamics of Metals" and the book "Newtonian >> Electrodynamics" >> in which a longitudinal force in the current-carrying metals (and in >> mercury) is >> reported, is somehow connected to the Biefeld-Brown force upon the >> capacitor? I understand >> that in the one case there is a current "flowing" and in the other there >> is no current. But in >> both cases we are stressing the material's lattice and obtainning >> "unconventional" results. And in >> both cases the unconversional result is a force (or forces) along the >> direction of the applied >> electrical potential. >> >> On the other hand, maybe there is a current flowing in both cases. Page >> 44 of "Ether-technology" >> by Rho Sigma has a letter from T Townsend Brown in which Brown writes >> "Bursts of thrust (toward >> the positive) were observed every time there was a vacuum spark within >> the large bell jar." >> "Spark" to me means current flow. >> >> Bob Gray > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 11:52:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22426; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:47:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:47:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980911024919.00b8fe60@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 02:49:19 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Faraday considerations. In-Reply-To: <008001bddd6f$6b70b9e0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"55gFg3.0.DU5.11N-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6331 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Two cents worth here. I've seen the same show, and others besides (big fan of Discovery and Learning Channel). When they really set the frame rate high, so they can slow down the film, they noticed that about half the strikes "appear" to be coming from the ground and leaping into the clouds, as if the Earth was overcharged. Scientists are still puzzled, but they don't dwell too long on such puzzlements. Lee At 11:31 AM 9/11/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Meat Truck and All > >I've seen this effect as well while messing around with a 8KV laser power >supply. I even went as far as placing photo-diodes to look at each gap >(through optical fibre). The middle gap did (apparently) arc first, and >also the PCB between was blacker than between the outer joints. Capacitive >explanations didn't seem to explain it. The 'gaps' were simply solder >joints on a PCB. The middle 'gaps' were supposed to be connected but I >forgot to do this. > >Also, l have seen high speed photographs of lightning strikes to ground. >Just before the actual strike, a number of arcs approx. 2 metre long >emanated from the ground. The actual strike seemed to 'combine' with the >tallest arc. (I saw this on Discovery Channel). > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Meat Truck > >>One of the most mysterious observations claim to be from the days of >>Faraday; that a long circuit of conductance divided by 3 points; the >>begining,the middle,and the end. That consists of three air gaps; yet when >>conduction occurs Faraday noticed that an arc occured across the middle >>before the ends! Now what kind of person would go to them measures to >>construct and measure by mirrors? such a thing so long ago? It baffles my >>mind to say the least.Electric-magnetic interaction was easily deducable, >>but I wouldnt mind if someone else can explain with permissible spelling >>errors how this can be? Agian Yevrah mnorris@akron.infi.net > > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 14:20:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15675; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:12:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:12:53 -0700 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:13:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: Berkant Goeksel X-Sender: aybchgdj@hercules.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Biefeld-Brown and Neumann Electrodynamics? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980911023950.00b8e140@rockisland.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA15564 Resent-Message-ID: <"_fsnv.0.eq3.K9P-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6332 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob and All! let me quote some lines from the book "Tapping the Zero-Point Energy" by Moray B. King (ISBN 0-9623356-0-6). I wil put some notes. Chapter 'Is Artificial Gravity Possible?', pp.25-28: Any hypothesis that explains the thrust must include the following key observations: 1. A large thrust was associated with a spark. A residual thrust existed without sparking. (in vacuum, 1956, gap capacitors). (Note: It is known, that in gas discharges so called nonlinear ionization waves are induced. Compare the present papers by Lehnert etc. What other can happen in vacuum? Prof. Bo Lehnert talks about 'Electromagnetic Theory with Space-Charges in Vacuo. You find a link from my site.) 2. A DC voltage (150 kV) caused a thrust when initially applied. The thrust would decay within 60 seconds. Two minutes of recovery were needed at zero volts before thrust could be produced again. (In oil, 1928, dielectric of lead oxide and wax). 3. The thrust varied with the time of day. (In vacuum and in oil). (Note: Look into the work of Prof. Leopold Halpern (former assistant of Prof. Schrödinger, Prof. Dirac etc.) at http://pages.pratique.fr/~desbrand/GV_INTRO.htm. They search for X-ray gravitational radiation from the sun. Look in the paper of Giorgio Fontana at my site) Point 1 requires identifiying the source of the vacuum spark. Could it be due to air mmolecules that were trapped in the positive plate, due to electrons ejected from the negative plate, or due to both? The second point was only observed in Brown's early capacitors of lead oxide and wax. It provides a clue to the optimum operating voltage for the capacitors. The dielectric should be polarized to the threshold of breakdown such that perturbation can cause avalanche breakdown. If the voltage is too high and the dielectric conducts, there will be no thrust. Thr thrust is associated with a change in state from polarization to breakdown. If the voltage is adjusted such that this charge of state keeps repeating, a maximum thrust occurs. Point 3 is surprise and needs explanation. Some possible hypotheses to explain the observations are listed below: 1. The surrounding medium is ionized and accelerated by the field (Ion propulsion). 2. Avalanche breakdown through the dielectric is associated with: a. Plasma formation in the dielectric. b. An abrupt change in polarization (Note: That's highly interesting for ferroelectric capacitors.--> Neal Graneau ) c. An abrupt change in dielectric permittivity. A rapidly modulated dielectric permittivity may act as transducer between electromagnetismm and any of the following (Note: Phase transition could be important.): 1. Zero-point vacuum energy. 2. High frequency gravitational radiation (Note: Compare the work of Prof. Halpern and the very recent paper of Dr. Fontana concerning the Tampere experiments. By the way, Dr. Brown was interested in superconductors as I could read at http://www.soteria.com/brown/). 3. High frequency permittivity waves (I don't know if it's identical with electrostatic waves. But look to the paper by Prof. Lehnert.) 4. Higher dimensional components of electromagnetism. 5. Neutrino flux 6. Ether flux 3. A resonant field is produced. The positive electrode is shaped to maximize the mutual interaction of the field with the metric. This may result in a spatially entended coherence of the vacuum energy fluctuations yielding a macroscoping metric fluctuation. Ion propulsion is a component of thrust, but it cannot explain all the behavior. To illustrate, consider two equal size capacitors, the first with a small dielectric constant and the second with a massive material that has a large dielectric constant. Apply the same voltage to both. Brown observed that the capacitor with the larger dielectric constant exhibits the greater thrust. This is exactly opposite to what ion propulsion would predict since the fringe field of the first capacitor is greater. In the vacuum rotor experiment, only residual air ions accelerated in the fringe field can cause ion propulsion. The air ions in the main field will bang into the negative plate and impede the thrust. However, air ions in the main field between the plates can trigger breakdown - causing an electron cloud ejection from the negative plate. The key to artificial gravity may be a rapidly accelerated, densely charged plasma cloud. It might cohere the vacuum fluctuations over a macroscopic region of space if there exists mutual coupling and connectivity of the particles in the cloud. Wheeler' superspace shows how a nonlocal connectivity may occur. A simultaneous avalanche breakdown across the entire dielectric might mascroscopically cohere the vacuum fluctuations in the region. If this were to occur in a perfect crystalline substance (e.g. ferroelectric), the coherence could be siginificantly larger due to the regular ionic lattice'S coupling to the vacuum energy. An outside energy flux could trigger and coherently couple the particle participating in the simultaneous breakdown. What possible energy source could be interacting with the polarized field to account for the sidereal correlations? Could it be high frequency gravitational waves? Or could there exist such a thing as permittivity waves, perhaps generated by a plasma modulating a medium's dielectric constant? Brown ruled out standard electromagnetism by recent shielding experiments. But could there exist a higher dimensional form of electromagnetism that penetrates shielding (Note: Barrett, Lohak, Rodrigues etc.)? Could neutrinos be interacting? Could an ether flux exist that Michelson and Morley did not detect because the flux was perpendicular to the plane of their interferometer ? (Note: Compare the paper 'The Complexified Aether' by Erol Torun at http://www.meru.org/Advisors/Torun/complethr.html. By the way, Erol is the guy who analysed the Mars structures. (Forget them here, please!) The meaning of the golden mean is expressed.) Those ideas are obviously speculative-only future experiments can give clues to develop a more concrete formulation. (Note: It fits well in present advances in electromagnetism!) Bob asked about currents. Dr. Neal Graneau at Oxford University is working in the Pulsed Power and Applications Lab (http://www.eng.ox.ac.uk/~ppampb/ppa.html). Interesting topics are nonlinear pulsed power technology and ferroelectric emitters. Ferroelectric emitters: The recently discovered phenomenon of electron emission from the surfaces of ferroelectric ceramics is being studied in order to clarify the physical processes involved. It is hoped that from this study it will be possible to engineer efficient electron emitters which can be used for a variety of applications such as in pollutions control, high voltage switches, infra-red detectors and as electro-active catalysts. (Note: There are some more interesting for electroaerodynamics and advanced combustion technology. The effect was discovered at CERN in 1988 (?) by visiting scientists from Berlin University of Technology. Dr. Gundel et al. are leading experts in this field and also published results at NATO Advanced Studies etc. There are only 20 institutes worldwide searching in FE-emitters and electron/positron beams. For details in the principle look at http://www-tet.ee.tu-berlin.de/jb/jb94/jb94-44.html. The effect is based on abrupt change of polarization which induces a compensating current in the vacuum. The pictures at the site above can explain the effect. Imagine an airplane having ferroelectric (electro-active) surface. You could induce coherent currents in the leading edge area. Remember the words by Dr. Paul LaViolette. He was talking about similar thing when talking about leading edge applications in an advanced aircraft. You could read my recent paper at http://www.physik.tu-berlin.de/~bgoeksel/megaliner/index2.html. If the theories or claims of Drs. Graneau are correct, then, aircraft without sonic boom could really be electro-gravitic. But only experiments can verify such speculations. Let's do. Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 16:04:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21087; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:59:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:59:29 -0700 Message-ID: <004a01bdddd8$6f7a4380$957584d0@tim> From: "Tim Kaiser" To: Subject: Re: Biefeld-Brown and Neumann Electrodynamics? Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:03:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"V7K9q1.0.M95.GjQ-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6333 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Please take me off this list! unsubscribe unsubscribe all unsubscribe tnkaiser@piasanet.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 16:10:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24977; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:09:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:09:13 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980911185356.007eee50@microtec.net> X-Sender: energeon@microtec.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:53:56 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Patrick Tremblay Subject: MICRO-INVERTER In-Reply-To: <008601bddd93$adf22320$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hjT1p2.0.666.PsQ-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6334 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi EVERYONE, The last thing I need to complete my experiment is a Micro-Inverter. I need an inverter that can convert the DC current of a 1.5 Volt battery into AC current 60Hz 1.5 volt. It is important that the output voltage and current stays the same, only that the DC current is now AC. I say 1.5 volts, but it could be 3 volts or 9V. The circuit is ready but this is the last component I need. Where could I find such a small Inverter circuit ? The inverters you find at Radio Shack are not good for my experiment. thanks. Best Regards, energeon, 7515 Jodelle, Laval West (quebec), Canada, H7R-5L5, FAX: 1-514-686-6083 PHONE: 1-514-962-1678 Patrick Tremblay energeon@microtec.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 18:43:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12429; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:40:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:40:28 -0700 Message-ID: <004201bddded$3937fc80$85ec060c@davelook> From: "davelook" To: "wes borg" , "Tom Bruno" , "Todd Knudtson" , "Steve Fowler" , "Robert Keller, Sr." , "Rich Lane" , "Peter Fred" , "Mike Connolly" , "Kyle R. Mcallister" , "KAZ Vorpal" , "Karl Krueger" , "Jerry Decker" , "Jenny Pike" , "FREE ENERGY" , "Eric Lackey" , "David Callaghan" , "Lee Markland" , "Peter Bros" , "garfield" , "Zadkin Mangin" , "Carey Johnson" , "Buehler, Doyle" , "Brooke Lackey" , "AlienPappy" , "Al Bennett" Subject: Floating Bricks Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:32:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"vsgbd3.0.423.B4T-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6335 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here's something interesting I'm forwarding from the Extropian list. Dave L. -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Roberts To: extropians@extropy.com Date: Thursday, September 10, 1998 2:32 PM Subject: Re: Room temperature superconduction in carbon fibers? other products? > > >Robin Hanson wrote: > >> Brian D Williams forwards: >> >4. ON THE FUTURE OF CARBON NANOTUBE CHEMISTRY >> >... 4) Perhaps of greatest interest Given all other applications >> for nanotubes, I guess I'd bet on them. But it could be many years >> still. >> I have a rather speculative question for the list. Does anyone know of >> the posibility of producing a structure of carbon ( nanotubes,other >> fullerenes) that is both quite rigid and is able to contain a gas(air) >> at substantially lower density than the surrounding atmosphere and >> still have the entire structure's (bubble) mass be a fraction of that >> of the displaced air ? The uses of a lighter than air structural >> material would add some novel products to shelves at Walmart. ( real >> sky hooks, bricks to construct permantly floating buildings, personal >> floatation devices(in air not on water) Care to add a few new >> products of your own? > > > >-- >Dennis Roberts http://netvectors.com > Boost your website with our start-up page! > >"Do not be decieved by...some false secondary power, by which, in >weakness, > we create distinctions, then deem that our puny boundaries > are things which we percieve, and not which we have made." --- >Wordsworth > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 19:53:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02134; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 19:51:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 19:51:30 -0700 Message-ID: <35FAE8DB.6D17@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:34:19 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ohms Law (Electromagnets) References: <199809110619.XAA27949@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tRkO4.0.GX.o6U-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6336 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: dave dameron wrote: > > Well I am glad you have a sense of humor! I need some right now. > I actually agree with you in spirit about how to wind electromagnets. > Only disagree on a point or two. >Snip Hi Dave, Having just re-read my previous post, I now realise how easily it might have been interpreted as something other than just good humored banter. If it appeared that way to you, I can assure you that was not my intention. I therefore unreservedly withdraw my previous comments, and apologise. With regard to the matter of L/R, I had thought it was clear we were talking about an inductive condition that exists after any significant influence of L/R, i.e. 5 or 6 time constants. And it was NOT my intention to "change the rules" in any way. However, in reading that particular post again, I can also see how easy it might have been to put such a construction on it. And in that I apologise for the inept wording of my post. I am also aware that there are many, many inductive permutations that might be discussed, and certainly more than one view on the nature of this matter. However, while I still hold firmly to my technical opinion in this, I can also see that any difference of view is not going to be resolved readily. I shall therefore withdraw from contributing any further comment on the subject, and get back to the more practical matter of completing my current experimental device, which will hopefully combine the principles of Dragone's high voltage spark gap, and Avramenko's plug. Sincerely, Stuart Rae -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 22:01:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06010; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:59:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:59:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199809120500.BAA17061@romeo.its.uwo.ca> X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 00:53:14 -0400 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Don J. S, Adams -" (by way of mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca) Subject: Re: Davis Turbine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9nnin.0.mT1.v-V-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6337 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Got the link originally form Jean-Pierre Lenten. tres cool! ;> Yaaaay!! Score one for the Canucks! Thanks Chris, hey I bet Keelynet folks would dig this... mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca wrote: > > Hi John: > > Concerning Davis turbine, have a look at: > > http://www.bluenergy.com/pages/fs.html > > No plans, but some pictures > > Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 11 22:41:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA18043; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:38:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:38:27 -0700 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809120539.WAA17929@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Electromagnets Resent-Message-ID: <"x4h8_2.0.mP4.IZW-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6338 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi David and all, At 10:52 AM 9/11/98 +0100, David wrote: >Hi Dave and All > > >Dave, it would be very interesting if you posted some 'keys' on winding >electromagnets. Well I can start. To see the "best" shape or aspect ratio for a electromagnet, I decided to try for the max H field at the center. This as opposed to a volume of uniform field, etc. I did this by starting with a current loop, radius a, the H on axis = I/2a. Now more loops were added, both along the (z) axis = a give layer, and increasing radius. Only keep the loops, say where the H contribution at the center is >50% of the initial loop. Using the formula for a loop: H= I*r^2/2(r^2+z^2)^1.5, I found that |z|<0.7a for the first layer. For z=0, r<2a. Thid fits that fact that adding turns to a single layer solenoid, the the H will approach a value, but not exceed it. In adding layers, the loop with twice the radius produces 1/2 the H, but it has 2X the R, so the increases are slow :-/. Anyway, this gives the general shape, which can then be scaled various ways. For example a air core solenoid which produces 2500 gauss (H=2500 Oersteds) used about 3kg of wire and ~300 watts. I have wound 2 of this type, with different sized wires and V/I ratios. But if you increase this field 5X to 12,500 gauss, I get (a particular design): 70kg of wire, and 8500Watts. Haven't tried this! By the way, along the z axis, the field is max at the center. Radially it is min there. An example is 80%. Have tried some simulations to see this. It is easy to see it in practice, with about 500 gauss or more, a solenoid will pick up a steel ball, any size that will fit into the bore. It stays at the walls, and enough below center that the force balances gravity. Another interesting test is to use a neodym magnet. Less field is required to float it, but is shows the field directions well. It is surprising how close to the solenoid the field direction is 90 deg. from axial, sometimes still inside it. >Why couldn't you use a large soft iron (or something with better >permeability) 'C' core and stick things in the gap? You could then increase >the flux density by reducing the CSA of the gap pieces. Yes this I am considering. Have tried rough steel setups with several solenoids. I don't have the machine tools to make what I really want, either solid or built up from flats. May go to a machine shop. For each cm gap, you need >8000 Amp-turns for each Tesla B field. Not all the same constraints on shape as an air bore electromagnet. This number of amp-turns gives you an idea of the size coil and thus steel pieces required. By tapering the gap pieces, the field can be increased, maybe up to 2 Tesla, where it will become completely saturated? >David Callaghan -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 01:37:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA12932; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:35:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:35:21 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:36:36 +0200 (MET DST) From: Berkant Goeksel X-Sender: aybchgdj@hercules.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Biefeld-Brown and Neumann Electrodynamics? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980911023950.00b8e140@rockisland.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mTcvb3.0.-93.89Z-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6339 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All! I would like to quote some lines in addition to my other mail. Foreword of Prof. Elizabeth A. Rauscher (Nuclear and Astrophysics) in the book Electrogravitics Systems - Reports on a new propulsion methodology edited by Thomas Valone: "Standard physical models include four fundamental forces in Nature. They are the nuclear force, the electromagnetic force, the weak, nuclear decay force, and gravitational force. The nuclear force and the gravitational force have the similar property of being attractive only. What of antimatter -- does it rise in a gravitational field? (Note: CERN is looking for answers.) Such an experiment was attempted at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center, Stanford, CA without confirmed result. In 1971, I published a book and several papers on a ten dimensional geometric model of quantum gravity (Note: Heim's model is six dimensional, though he recently extended it to 12 dimensions. But nobody knows what the meaning are. In contrast to Wheeler, Heim is told to know the physical meaning of additional dimensions) in which I treated the four major force fields on an "equal footing" in such a manner as to consider them as bi or duel polar (Note: Things which were told before decades.), having both attraction and repulsion. T. Towmsemd Brown, who I met in 1981, led me to replicate his research on some properties of electrostatics, capacitance and ANOMALOUS CURRENT FLOWS ON UNIQUE MATERIALS. Electrostatic phenomena is very complex, unlike the current view of the phenomena. How does this work relate to the ideas of UFO propulsion (an early interest of T. T: Brown)? Certainly he has presented the scientific communitiy with many questions we need to investigate. I have also theoretically examined a five and eight dimensional geometry which includes the Kaluza Klein geometry which is an abstract formalism relating electromagnetism to the gravitational field. THis model interested Albert Einstein in the 1930's. THERE IS A LONG PATH BETWEEN THEORETICAL CONCEPTS, ROMANTIC WISHES AND PRELIMINARY EXPERIMENTS TO DETAILED EXPERIMENTAL VERIFICATIONS AND ACTUAL DESIGNED TECHNOLOGY. Let us re-examine Brown's works and rethink some of the issues which he has suggested to us. Science is an ongoing process, not a fixed set of facts, ever changing and developing." Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 01:58:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA15105; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:57:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:57:09 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004201bddded$3937fc80$85ec060c@davelook> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:56:08 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Floating Bricks Resent-Message-ID: <"4G9Cx3.0.xh3.aTZ-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6340 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave - >Robin Hanson wrote: > >> Brian D Williams forwards: >> >4. ON THE FUTURE OF CARBON NANOTUBE CHEMISTRY >> >... 4) Perhaps of greatest interest Given all other applications >> for nanotubes, I guess I'd bet on them. But it could be many years >> still. >> I have a rather speculative question for the list. Does anyone know of >> the posibility of producing a structure of carbon ( nanotubes,other >> fullerenes) that is both quite rigid and is able to contain a gas(air) >> at substantially lower density than the surrounding atmosphere and >> still have the entire structure's (bubble) mass be a fraction of that >> of the displaced air ? The uses of a lighter than air structural >> material would add some novel products to shelves at Walmart. ( real >> sky hooks, bricks to construct permantly floating buildings, personal >> floatation devices(in air not on water) Care to add a few new >> products of your own? Perhaps it is possible to construct a hollow structure, maybe most simply a carbon-tube-spar/mylar-sheet tension structure, that could withstand the atmospheric pressure of drawing a vacuum within it. Could even be a cool toy - sold with a little plastic vacuum hand pump to pull enough vacuum to get them to float in the air. Compression skin structures assembled in hemispheres or other shapes might work too. But calcs I did years ago show that such gizmos need to be paper thin, and even then the individual cells can't be more than a few inches across before the pressures get too large. Might not be a good idea for a toy after all, as failure might be rather violent and involve bits of strong rigid structures. And I'm not very good at math, so the calcs may have not been giving me the right range of values. And the slightest flaw would be a weak point that would invite failure. Can you think of a material that acts as a barrier to helium where the gas can diffuse through it when the walls are heated, but not at all when it's cooled? You could charge a bulk foam or other cellular material with the gas that way without having the complexity of extensive valve systems. About the best use for a non-delicate zero-weight foam I can think of is for surfboards and hang gliders. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 03:00:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA21644; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 02:59:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 02:59:31 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:00:40 +0200 (MET DST) From: Berkant Goeksel X-Sender: aybchgdj@hercules.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Biefeld-Brown and Neumann Electrodynamics? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Nox-E1.0.6I5.3Oa-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6341 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All! Let me continue on Antimatter. It's interesting because duality seems to be fundamental in nature. Recently I found the book 'Worlds-Antiworls' (1966) by Prof. Hannes Alfven in my library and thought about a paper 'Does Antimatter Emit a New Light' by Prof. Ruggero M. Santilli. You can find it at the 'International Workshop on Antimatter Gravity and Antihydrogen Spectroscopy' site http://www.baltzer.nl/hyper/109-1,4.html. I hope, I put it right. Otherwise take the link at my propulsion site. Sorry, I forgot what I wanted to tell. But you can find an interesting paper on AquaFuel registered in the Los Alamos preprint server http://xxx.lanl.gov/find. Mark all archives, take 'all years' and put 'Santilli' as word/pattern for search. You will get two papers first. But there are more. You have to get the papers from the 'nose' of the server by clicking again to Santilli... Imagine aircrafts flying with water fuel. It's great and could be realized using present propulsion technology and advances in charged cluster experiments. In view of this I would like to quote some wise comments of Dr. Bernhard Haisch (http://www.jse.com): 'Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.' Very interesting is the following one: 'Be sceptical of the "Sceptics".' Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 03:00:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA21695; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 02:59:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 02:59:35 -0700 Message-ID: <005b01bdde33$f5f1ba00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: MICRO-INVERTER Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:50:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"I0vnf1.0.nI5.6Oa-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6342 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Patrick and All -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Tremblay >I need an inverter that can convert the DC current of a 1.5 Volt battery >into AC current 60Hz 1.5 volt. It is important that the output voltage and >current stays the same, only that the DC current is now AC. >I say 1.5 volts, but it could be 3 volts or 9V. It is currently impossible to convert DC to AC without any losses. * Do you require the AC output voltage to 'track' the DC input over a range of voltages * How much power do you require? * What will the AC be driving? * Is it important that the output is 60Hz? (Much better efficiency can be achieved at higher frequency) * What is the ideal input/output voltages? * Does the AC need to be a sine wave? If your power requirements are less than 6W you could hack into a NEWPORT DC-DC converter (carefully) and grab the high frequency AC before the final DC conversion. A Newport NMXS0505SO costs about USD 40, takes 5VDC in and puts out 5VDC at up to 1A. You could also use a H-Bridge to reverse DC at 60Hz, giving square wave AC to the load. The circuit I am thinking of could track the input voltage from about 4V to 46V (minus losses) using common components, at up to about 4A. PS Would you mind describing your experiment? Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 05:48:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA12603; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 05:47:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 05:47:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01bdde4b$61363d60$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: MICRO-INVERTER Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 13:46:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"dDYOQ2.0.m43.Irc-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6343 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Patrick and All More thoughts on what I sent earlier. (This uses a relay as a H-Bridge instead of transistors) You could achieve this with a small, fast double pole relay. You would need an external circuit to switch the relay at 60Hz though. The output would be a rough square wave so expect loads of noise. Don't expect it the relay to last too long either. Connect the normally open of contact 1 to the normally closed of contact 2. Connect 0V to this. Connect the normally closed of contact 1 to the normally open of contact 2. Connect +VDC to this. Connect your load across the wipers of contact 1 and contact 2 (Contact 1 is the first set of contacts, consisting NO, NC and wiper. Contact 2 is the second set) You could run the relay with a 555 free running at 60Hz. Don't forget to put a diode in inverse parallel with the relay coil to avoid destroying the coil driver. With another pole you could use the relay as the oscillator by feeding the coil through a set of NC contacts -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Tremblay >I need an inverter that can convert the DC current of a 1.5 Volt battery >into AC current 60Hz 1.5 volt. It is important that the output voltage and >current stays the same, only that the DC current is now AC. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 07:04:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24901; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 07:01:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 07:01:26 -0700 Message-ID: <35FA80F7.FD12494C@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:11:03 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electromagnets References: <199809120539.WAA17929@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nVJmy2.0.v46.rwd-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6344 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > In David Jiles book, "Introduction to Magnetism and Magnetic Materials" he gives some formulas for "real" solenoids. For a *given* power consumption, the *largest* magnetic field in the center of the solenoid will occur if the solenoid has the following geometry: alpha = 3, beta = 2 where alpha = (radius of outer winding) / (radius of inner winding) and beta = (solenoid length) / (2 * radius of inner winding) Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 09:10:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18902; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:08:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:08:21 -0700 From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: <30575336.35fa9c93@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:08:51 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Electromagnets Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Resent-Message-ID: <"HM6Mm.0.Dd4.qnf-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6345 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-09-12 10:05:57 EDT, you write: << For a *given* power consumption, the *largest* magnetic field in the center of the solenoid will occur if the solenoid has the following geometry: alpha = 3, beta = 2 where alpha = (radius of outer winding) / (radius of inner winding) and beta = (solenoid length) / (2 * radius of inner winding) Bob Gray >> Hi Bob I have a question are you a family member of Edwin V Gray that had EVGray Enterprises in Calif. back in the 70s and then had moved to Idaho in the early 80s? For I am trying to find some of his family members. Ron Hammar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 09:11:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19775; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:10:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:10:07 -0700 From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: <41edab9.35fa9c9d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:09:01 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Electromagnets Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Resent-Message-ID: <"3ySOb2.0.uq4.Upf-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6346 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-09-12 10:05:57 EDT, you write: << For a *given* power consumption, the *largest* magnetic field in the center of the solenoid will occur if the solenoid has the following geometry: alpha = 3, beta = 2 where alpha = (radius of outer winding) / (radius of inner winding) and beta = (solenoid length) / (2 * radius of inner winding) Bob Gray >> Hi Bob I have a question are you a family member of Edwin V Gray that had EVGray Enterprises in Calif. back in the 70s and then had moved to Idaho in the early 80s? For I am trying to find some of his family members. Ron Hammar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 10:27:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10504; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:25:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:25:32 -0700 Message-ID: <35FAB0CB.DEF0907C@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 13:35:08 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electromagnets References: <30575336.35fa9c93@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bm9aO3.0.zZ2.Bwg-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6347 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Hi Bob > > I have a question are you a family member of Edwin V Gray that had EVGray > Enterprises in Calif. back in the 70s and then had moved to Idaho in the early > 80s? > For I am trying to find some of his family members. > > Ron Hammar Nope... My family is from the East coast.... Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 11:54:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02094; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:53:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:53:09 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <41edab9.35fa9c9d@aol.com> References: Conversation <41edab9.35fa9c9d@aol.com> with last message <41edab9.35fa9c9d@aol.com> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "J. Keith King" Subject: Re: Electromagnets Date: Fri, 11 Sep 98 22:02:08 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CUP5x1.0.aW.LCi-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6348 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What part of Calif was Gray Interprizes from ---------- > In a message dated 98-09-12 10:05:57 EDT, you write: > > << > For a *given* power consumption, the *largest* magnetic field in the center > of the > solenoid will occur if the solenoid has the following geometry: > > alpha = 3, beta = 2 > > where alpha = (radius of outer winding) / (radius of inner winding) > and beta = (solenoid length) / (2 * radius of inner winding) > > Bob Gray > >> > Hi Bob > > I have a question are you a family member of Edwin V Gray that had EVGray > Enterprises in Calif. back in the 70s and then had moved to Idaho in the early > 80s? > For I am trying to find some of his family members. > > Ron Hammar > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 12:52:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11951; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:44:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:44:45 -0700 From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: <918dd8ef.35facf36@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 15:44:54 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Electromagnets Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Resent-Message-ID: <"RbweP1.0.fw2.jyi-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6349 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-09-12 14:56:10 EDT, you write: << What part of Calif was Gray Interprizes from >> >From Van Nuys or Northridge CA From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 13:45:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25158; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 13:40:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 13:40:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199809122041.RAA17152@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:39:55 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Electromagnets Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <35FA80F7.FD12494C@servtech.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"TWa3b.0.096.Zmj-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6350 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > > In David Jiles book, "Introduction to Magnetism and Magnetic Materials" he > gives some formulas for "real" solenoids. > > For a *given* power consumption, the *largest* magnetic field in the center of > the solenoid will occur if the solenoid has the following geometry: > > alpha = 3, beta = 2 > > where alpha = (radius of outer winding) / (radius of inner winding) > and beta = (solenoid length) / (2 * radius of inner winding) > > Bob Gray > If you have an air core solenoid generating say 1000 Gauss in its center, what happens with this magnetic field when you insert an iron core ? --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 14:59:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08948; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:57:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:57:36 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809122158.OAA04151@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Electromagnets Resent-Message-ID: <"NQw1b3.0.kB2.Fvk-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6351 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob and all, At 10:11 AM 9/12/98 -0400, Bob wrote: >> > >In David Jiles book, "Introduction to Magnetism and Magnetic Materials" he >gives some formulas for "real" solenoids. > >For a *given* power consumption, the *largest* magnetic field in the center of the >solenoid will occur if the solenoid has the following geometry: > > alpha = 3, beta = 2 > >where alpha = (radius of outer winding) / (radius of inner winding) >and beta = (solenoid length) / (2 * radius of inner winding) > Thanks, This sounds interesting. Hope to find the book soon and see what he did. It isn't cheap, so want to look at it first. In my design ideas, the outer diameter turns have the end windings left off, as these contribute the least. A common formula for the inductance for a single layer solenoid is L=r^2*N^2/(9r+10L). (add a scale factor for various units) I calculated the shape for maximum inductance for a given length and diameter of wire. (2*pi*r*N = constant, N/unit length = constant) I found 9r=10L, but the maximum was very broad. So Jiles' results would be very interesting. Would you recommend the book, otherwise? Thanks, -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 14:59:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09065; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:57:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:57:53 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809122158.OAA04175@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: mark@plug-in.com.br, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Electromagnets Resent-Message-ID: <"pVUNR2.0.TD2.Xvk-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6352 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Marcelo and all, At 05:39 PM 9/12/98 -3, you wrote: >> > >If you have an air core solenoid generating say 1000 Gauss in its center, >what happens with this magnetic field when you insert an iron core ? I guess the H in the air would increase, and the H in the iron would decrease, from that of air without the core. The relative amount is determined by the path lengths (Ampere's rule: integral of H.dl = N*I) and relative permeability. B (air) would increase as it is linear, B(iron) would also increase, as their tangential values at the interface is continuous. It's a set of simultaneous equations. > >--- >Marcelo Puhl >mark@plug-in.com.br -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 15:18:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16261; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 15:16:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 15:16:15 -0700 Message-ID: <35FB0E69.7DC7@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:14:33 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Helical antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"d-Zpf2.0.xz3.kAl-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6353 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: Anyone here know how to build a helical antenna for 100MHz with a phase velocity greater than C? If you do, email me. Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 18:01:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26448; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:58:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:58:14 -0700 Message-ID: <35FB1AEA.528FC42@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:07:55 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electromagnets References: <199809122158.OAA04151@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mY8vV1.0.5T6.bYn-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6354 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: dave dameron wrote: > Hi Bob and all, > At 10:11 AM 9/12/98 -0400, Bob wrote: > >> > > > >In David Jiles book, "Introduction to Magnetism and Magnetic Materials" he > >gives some formulas for "real" solenoids. > > > >For a *given* power consumption, the *largest* magnetic field in the center > of the > >solenoid will occur if the solenoid has the following geometry: > > > > alpha = 3, beta = 2 > > > >where alpha = (radius of outer winding) / (radius of inner winding) > >and beta = (solenoid length) / (2 * radius of inner winding) > > > Thanks, > This sounds interesting. Hope to find the book soon and see what he did. > It isn't cheap, so want to look at it first. > > In my design ideas, the outer diameter turns have the end windings left off, > as these contribute the least. > > A common formula for the inductance for a single > layer solenoid is L=r^2*N^2/(9r+10L). (add a scale factor for various units) > I calculated the shape for maximum inductance for a given length and > diameter of wire. (2*pi*r*N = constant, N/unit length = constant) > I found 9r=10L, but the maximum was very broad. > > So Jiles' results would be very interesting. Would you recommend the book, > otherwise? > Thanks, > -Dave I would recommend the book if you are looking for an intro to magnetic materials. I would not recommend the *whole* book otherwise. I would recommend the 1st chapter if you want a review/intro to "magnetic fields." The 1st chapter has some info on solenoids. Not extensive info, just general intro stuff. Overall, I like the book very much. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 18:42:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04360; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 18:39:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 18:39:34 -0700 Message-ID: <35FB249C.7D5414DE@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:49:17 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Biefeld-Brown and Neumann Electrodynamics?] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C7C36643B300A1E14E891973" Resent-Message-ID: <"B74Ev3.0.241.L9o-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6355 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C7C36643B300A1E14E891973 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------C7C36643B300A1E14E891973 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <35FB230C.B91747F1@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:42:37 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dave dameron Subject: Re: Biefeld-Brown and Neumann Electrodynamics? References: <199809122204.PAA21215@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dave dameron wrote: > Hi Bob, > At 03:31 PM 9/10/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >Also, has anyone (else) thought that the experiments reported by Peter > >Graneau in his books > >"Ampere-Nuemann Electrodynamics of Metals" and the book "Newtonian > >Electrodynamics" > >in which a longitudinal force in the current-carrying metals (and in > >mercury) is > >reported, is somehow connected to the Biefeld-Brown force upon the > >capacitor? > > Can you describe these experiments? I haven't seen this book yet. > > Thanks, > -Dave I *HIGHLY* recommend these 2 books. If you are not a technical kind of person, I would recommend the book "Newton versus Einstein: How Matter Interacts with Matter" by Peter and Neal Graneau which is not so mathematical but describes the essential points, philosophically, that are in the other 2 books. Essentually, Dr.(s) Graneau is writing about Ampere's electrodynamics in metals (current carrying wires, for example) He finds that the current electrodynamic *field theories* can not account for some *experimental* results involved in current carrying wire experiments. It seems to boil down to how a "current element" is to be defined in the 2 theories (Ampere theory vs field theory (Maxwell - Einstein)). In Ampere theory, the current element is a physical part of the wire which consists of the electron *and* the positive lattice points of the metal. The Maxwell-Einstein (special relativity) defines the current element to be *only* the electron. Using Ampere-Neumann electrodynamics, you can predict/calculate a longitudinal mechanical force in the current carrying wire. In Maxwell-Einstein electrodynamics there is no longitudinal force. Peter Graneau has done several (many?) experiments which seem to varify the Ampere-Neumann electrodynamics for metals which the Maxwell-Einstein theory doesn't handle. If I remember correctly, the Ampere-Neumann electrodynamics predicts that a wire can literally be ripped apart if the current is large enough. Note: *not* melt but *blown apart*(!) by the longitudinal force. High current experiments have been done and the wire *does* blow apart and the resulting wire segment lengths are the length predicted by the Ampere-Neumann theory. Very impressive. Note that Ampere-Neumann theory does not apply to a *single* particle traveling in a vacuum because the current element is now different. Note that the Ampere-Neumann theory is an "action at a distance" theory, not a field theory, i.e., energy is not stored in a "field".... There are other experiments described in the books that show Maxwell-Einstein theory to be lacking when dealing with metal (wire). (Experimental results, not just theory.) So, I am trying to learn as much about it as I can. Also, I am "cosmic fishing" for explainations for the Biefeld-Brown results. My latest idea is that if the Ampere-Neumann theory predicts a longitudinal force when a current flows and if the Brown result of a capacitor set in motion just at the point of dielectric breakdown (a current?) then maybe the longitudinal Ampere force is connected to the Biefeld -Brown effect. Maybe not since the Ampere longitudinal force is an action-reaction force. What part of the capacitor is dealing with the reaction force? But I am just "fishing" at this point. Bob Gray --------------C7C36643B300A1E14E891973-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 20:29:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA31174; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 20:26:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 20:26:42 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35FB249C.7D5414DE@servtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:25:42 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: [Fwd: Biefeld-Brown and Neumann Electrodynamics?] Resent-Message-ID: <"4UsVY1.0.0d7.ojp-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6356 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob - > Maybe not since the Ampere longitudinal force is an > action-reaction force. What part of the capacitor is > dealing with the reaction force? But I am just > "fishing" at this point. That's the thing. This force has to at least appear to be 'reactionless'. There are always Mach's "fixed stars" to take the reactive force. See Woodward's theory. If he has it right, then I bet there's a connection to what TTB claims to have seen. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 12 21:20:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09365; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:17:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:17:20 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809130418.VAA20723@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: cooling effect observed? Resent-Message-ID: <"1OejF3.0.FI2.GTq-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6357 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello all, I did my first electromagnet cooling experiment. My results were inconclusive. The coil was about 3km of AWG 33 wire, about 18,000 turns, 2000 Ohms. I connected it to a 414 Volt power supply through a motor driven interrupter. The rpm was about 2000 with 2 contacts/revolution. If the contact was good, the duty cycle would have been 5%. The coil was put into an insulated box. The temperatures, deg. C measured were: Time Inside Outside 0 min 25 25 deg. C 8 min 26 26 15 25 25.5 30 25.5 25.5 The temperature did not increase! I tried to measure the input current, power and duty cycle with a scope across a 10 Ohm sense resistor without luck- Could see lots of high frequency hash only, during the ~5%, >100 Volts peak. As a comparison, I placed a 1 watt load into the box and measured: Time Inside Outside 0 min 26 26 deg. C 15 30 25.5 30 30 25.5 -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 13 03:03:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA04133; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 02:56:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 02:56:16 -0700 Message-ID: <001f01bddefc$9d98bec0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: cooling effect observed? Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:54:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"ppfKm2.0.Q01.0Rv-r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6358 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave and All -----Original Message----- From: dave dameron >The coil was about 3km of AWG 33 wire, about 18,000 turns, 2000 Ohms. >I connected it to a 414 Volt power supply through a motor driven interrupter. >The rpm was about 2000 with 2 contacts/revolution. >If the contact was good, the duty cycle would have been 5%. *Was the 414V supply AC or DC? *How much current can the supply source? *Have you done energy stored calcs on the coil? >The coil was put into an insulated box. The temperatures, deg. C measured were: I take you mean thermally insulated by insulated. *Was the box (fairly well) sealed from the outside air? *Did you measure the temperature of the coil itself (before and during the experiment)? *Does the coil weigh about 1KG? *What diameter is 33AWG wire? *How about slowly heating the coil to a fixed temperature above ambient first (+10C ?), then running the experiment with the power supply then without the power supply? It would be easier to see if the coil is contributing to the heating or cooling of itself. By the way, it must be nice to have an ambient temperature of 25C :-) (Sorry for all the questions ;-} ) Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 13 13:41:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA15481; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:37:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:37:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980913031425.00f36200@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 03:14:25 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Gravitational anomaly In-Reply-To: <199809130418.VAA20723@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"alOS63.0.nn3.7q2_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6359 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is from the BBC's Internet SciTech News Thursday, September 10, 1998 Published at 15:06 GMT 16:06 UK Sci/Tech Spacecrafts pulled by mystery force It seems that space probes travelling through the solar system are not behaving according to the known law of gravity, puzzling scientists. Our science editor Dr David Whitehouse reports. According to Nasa's John Anderson it is a real puzzle. He said: "We've been working on this problem for several years, and we accounted for everything we could think of." It is all to do with the motion of space probes in the outer solar system. In 1972, Nasa launched Pioneer 10 to Jupiter. Since then scientists have maintained regular radio contact with it as it passed Jupiter and sped into deep space. By studying the doppler shift of the radio signals from the craft scientists have been able to calculate how fast it is travelling. The puzzle is that Pioneer 10 seems to be slowing more quickly than it should. Astronomers have detected an anomaly, as if Pioneer 10 were getting an extra pull from the Sun that cannot be explained. No-one is sure what is to blame. A fuel leak, friction from gas in space, thermal radiation from the spacecraft's batteries and gravity from an unknown asteroid have all been ruled out. Pioneer 11, launched in 1973, is also slowing at about the same rate. The Ulysses probe, launched in 1990, is also affected. Signals from Galileo, now orbiting Jupiter, may also show the same effect. Scientists are a long way from suggesting that Newton's law of gravity should be reworked. But the same strange effect seen in four space probes is making them think. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 13 19:01:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA20181; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:57:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:57:36 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bddf83$05aee620$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Gravitational anomaly Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:10:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"IjNII2.0.Cx4.FW7_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6360 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee and All -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland >It seems that space probes travelling through the solar system are not >behaving according to the known law of gravity, puzzling scientists. Our >science editor Dr David Whitehouse reports. > >According to Nasa's John Anderson it is a real puzzle. > >He said: "We've been working on this problem for several years, and we >accounted for everything we could think of." They say they are 80 billionth's of centimetre per second squared out. Now that's precision :-) Hope they're not using Windows Calculator or dodgy Pentium FPU's :-) They certainly haven't 'massaged' their findings to generate funding. Real science without garnish. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 13 19:20:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA27058; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:18:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:18:14 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980913091157.00f72770@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:11:57 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Gravitational anomaly In-Reply-To: <000201bddf83$05aee620$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZR9pA.0.ec6.bp7_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6361 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:10 AM 9/14/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee and All > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >>It seems that space probes travelling through the solar system are not >>behaving according to the known law of gravity, puzzling scientists. Our >>science editor Dr David Whitehouse reports. >> >>According to Nasa's John Anderson it is a real puzzle. >> >>He said: "We've been working on this problem for several years, and we >>accounted for everything we could think of." > > >They say they are 80 billionth's of centimetre per second squared out. Now >that's precision :-) Hope they're not using Windows Calculator or dodgy >Pentium FPU's :-) >They certainly haven't 'massaged' their findings to generate funding. Real >science without garnish. > >Best regards > >David Callaghan Have I posted this one yet? Notice the comment that G (Gravity is hard to measure) of course its measurement has no basis in reality and is derived from assumptions about mass which are mathematically derived backwards from measuring orbits. Circular reasoning, cause from effect (superstition) and metaphysical (the attractive qualities of little corpuscles of matter - Newton). Isn't it time to give it up and start looking at gravity as a current force caused by a physical process? "A FANTASTIC RESULT!" That's what Princeton Astronomer N; Bahcall said of the discovery that the very early universe was already partitioned by colossal walls of galaxies hundreds of millions of light years long. That walls of galaxies exist is not a new idea, but finding that they existed shortly after the Big Bang is highly disconcerting to most astronomers. How did these walls form so early? Why hasn't the force of gravity modified the basic structure of the cosmos over the billions of years that followed the Big Bang? The astronomical quandry is this: If the very early universe looks pretty much the same as today's universe, the implication is that mass, the source of gravitational sculpting, is scarce. But this is at odds with the cosmic expansion rate which implies a much higher density of matter. (Appenzeller, Tim; "Ancient Galaxy Walls Go up; Will Theories Tumble Down?" Science, 276:36, 1997.) Comment. The existence of galaxy walls, like so many astronomical constructs, depends upon the assumption that the red shifts of galaxies are proportional to their recessional velocities and, additionally, their distances and ages. So much rides on this one assumption. The same situation prevails in biology, where everything is found on the assumption that random mutations and natural selection can together generate any degree of complexity, sophistication, innovation seen in nature. The history science tells us that many paradigms have fallen because they have depended upon faulty assumptions. G: THE EMBARRASSING CONSTANT OF NATURE Of the four fundamental forces of nature, gravity was the first to be discovered. Even the Neanderthals knew of it! That's hardly surprising; it's everywhere. Unfortunately, we don't know much more about it than the Neanderthals. Though it seems powerful when you trip and fall, gravity is the weakest of the fundamental four. In a helium nucleus, the force yf repulsion between two protons is 104 times the gravitational attraction between them. Weak though it may be, gravity controls the trajectory of a baseball, the motion of the planets, and the shape of our Galaxy. Physicists describe gravitation with Newton's Law of Gravitation, which incorporates the Gravitational Constant G. Here's where the embarrassment arises. Many other constants of nature, such as the charge on the electron, are known to eight significant figures. We only know G to three. What's worse, modern attempts to refine the measurement of G come up with wildly different answers. Torsion-pendulum experiments in the U.S., Germany, and New Zealand are far apart in their G-measurements. And physicists are perplexed --- to put it mildly. Of course, G is hard to measure. Seismic waves from ocean surf hundreds of miles away can affect the experiments. If a colleague a few offices away brings in some boxes of books for his library, the experiment is compromised. Better instrument science may eventually resolve the too-large discrepancies between the measured values of G, but some physicists worry that perhaps the problem runs deeper. If experiments find that G is changing slowly over time, for example, physicists would have to rethink how space and time are stitched together in a single fabric. Einstein would groan in his grave. (Kestenbaum, David; "The Legend of Big G," New Scientist, P. 39, January 17, 1998. ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 13 19:20:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA27102; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:18:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:18:17 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980913091149.00f74df0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:11:49 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Gravitational anomaly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"j4ZFF2.0.Id6.dp7_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6362 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave second post in response: Are we looking perhaps at mounting evidence that gravity is not a property of mass. >From the May - June Newsletter, Science Frontiers, PO Box 107, Glen Arm, MD 21057 THE ACCELERATING UNIVERSE Many laymen are uncomfortable with the Idea that the entire universe originated at an infinitesimal point and is now expanding away from this cosmic navel. Many astronomers are equally disturbed by the recent discovery that all these fleeing stars and galaxies are not being reined in by the force of gravity. In fact, observations of distant supernovas indicate that this exodus of matter is actually speeding up. Some universal repulsive force, it seems, is operating on very-large scales of distance. From an unknown somewhere energy Is being added to all constituents of the cosmos. The universe is more than a cloud of debris flying away from the Big Bang's Ground Zero. Somewhere, perhaps beyond the ken of our primitive instruments, is a fount of energy of which we know nothing. All this is a serious challenge to our understanding of space, time, and matter. Cosmologists are now appealing to quantum mechanical "shimmers," to "X-matter," and to a property called 'quintessence." (Glanz, James; "Exploding Stars Point to a Universal Repulsive Force," Science, 279:651, 1998. Also: Glanz, James; "Astronomers See a Cosmic Antigravity Force at Work," Science, 279-1298, 1998.) Comment by Bill Corliss. When theorists toss around terms like "X-matter' and "quintessence," you can be sure that the basic laws of the universe are still unchalked upon science's big blackboard. God's face is still unread. My comment: Here goes Newtonian Physics again, when the evidence points to the logical conclusion that mass is only a concept, and that mass gravity is not even a valid theory, what do they do? Why they create another and call it the "repulsive force". Well the concept is just that-------repulsive. e.. At 01:10 AM 9/14/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee and All > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >>It seems that space probes travelling through the solar system are not >>behaving according to the known law of gravity, puzzling scientists. Our >>science editor Dr David Whitehouse reports. >> >>According to Nasa's John Anderson it is a real puzzle. >> >>He said: "We've been working on this problem for several years, and we >>accounted for everything we could think of." > > >They say they are 80 billionth's of centimetre per second squared out. Now >that's precision :-) Hope they're not using Windows Calculator or dodgy >Pentium FPU's :-) >They certainly haven't 'massaged' their findings to generate funding. Real >science without garnish. > >Best regards > >David Callaghan Have I posted this one yet? Notice the comment that G (Gravity is hard to measure) of course its measurement has no basis in reality and is derived from assumptions about mass which are mathematically derived backwards from measuring orbits. Circular reasoning, cause from effect (superstition) and metaphysical (the attractive qualities of little corpuscles of matter - Newton). Isn't it time to give it up and start looking at gravity as a current force caused by a physical process? "A FANTASTIC RESULT!" That's what Princeton Astronomer N; Bahcall said of the discovery that the very early universe was already partitioned by colossal walls of galaxies hundreds of millions of light years long. That walls of galaxies exist is not a new idea, but finding that they existed shortly after the Big Bang is highly disconcerting to most astronomers. How did these walls form so early? Why hasn't the force of gravity modified the basic structure of the cosmos over the billions of years that followed the Big Bang? The astronomical quandry is this: If the very early universe looks pretty much the same as today's universe, the implication is that mass, the source of gravitational sculpting, is scarce. But this is at odds with the cosmic expansion rate which implies a much higher density of matter. (Appenzeller, Tim; "Ancient Galaxy Walls Go up; Will Theories Tumble Down?" Science, 276:36, 1997.) Comment. The existence of galaxy walls, like so many astronomical constructs, depends upon the assumption that the red shifts of galaxies are proportional to their recessional velocities and, additionally, their distances and ages. So much rides on this one assumption. The same situation prevails in biology, where everything is found on the assumption that random mutations and natural selection can together generate any degree of complexity, sophistication, innovation seen in nature. The history science tells us that many paradigms have fallen because they have depended upon faulty assumptions. G: THE EMBARRASSING CONSTANT OF NATURE Of the four fundamental forces of nature, gravity was the first to be discovered. Even the Neanderthals knew of it! That's hardly surprising; it's everywhere. Unfortunately, we don't know much more about it than the Neanderthals. Though it seems powerful when you trip and fall, gravity is the weakest of the fundamental four. In a helium nucleus, the force yf repulsion between two protons is 104 times the gravitational attraction between them. Weak though it may be, gravity controls the trajectory of a baseball, the motion of the planets, and the shape of our Galaxy. Physicists describe gravitation with Newton's Law of Gravitation, which incorporates the Gravitational Constant G. Here's where the embarrassment arises. Many other constants of nature, such as the charge on the electron, are known to eight significant figures. We only know G to three. What's worse, modern attempts to refine the measurement of G come up with wildly different answers. Torsion-pendulum experiments in the U.S., Germany, and New Zealand are far apart in their G-measurements. And physicists are perplexed --- to put it mildly. Of course, G is hard to measure. Seismic waves from ocean surf hundreds of miles away can affect the experiments. If a colleague a few offices away brings in some boxes of books for his library, the experiment is compromised. Better instrument science may eventually resolve the too-large discrepancies between the measured values of G, but some physicists worry that perhaps the problem runs deeper. If experiments find that G is changing slowly over time, for example, physicists would have to rethink how space and time are stitched together in a single fabric. Einstein would groan in his grave. (Kestenbaum, David; "The Legend of Big G," New Scientist, P. 39, January 17, 1998. ) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 13 21:53:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA03147; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:51:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:51:47 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: ddameron@earthlink.net Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:48:24 -0700 Subject: Re: cooling effect observed? Message-ID: <19980913.214829.12158.0.tv@juno.com> References: <199809130418.VAA20723@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-6,8,11-14,16-17,20-25,27-28,30,32,34-57 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"_3_Ky.0.4n.Z3A_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6363 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave, Great to see others trying this experiment also. Here are some thoughts on ways to enhance detection of possible temperature drops.. 1. Use two thermometers accurate to at least 0.1 degrees C (or F), preferably 0.01 degrees. J. Naudin only detected a drop of 0.2 degrees C. He used 0.1 C resolution temperature probes. Leon Dragone detected up to 0.8 degrees C. drop. 2. Study J. Naudins commutator. He says a noisy commutator seems to work better. This would mean a higher pulse rate. Dragone used a micrometer adjustable spark gap. He had to carefully tune it for the "singing" spark. I have yet to try this yet myself due to other commitments, but I am encouraged that others are trying in addition to J. Naudins excellent work. Best Wishes, Tim Vaughan On Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:18:34 -0700 (PDT) dave dameron writes: >I did my first electromagnet cooling experiment. My results were >inconclusive. The coil was about 3km of AWG 33 wire, about 18,000 turns, 2000 Ohms. >I connected it to a 414 Volt power supply through a motor driven interrupter. >The rpm was about 2000 with 2 contacts/revolution. If the contact was good, >the duty cycle would have been 5%. > >The coil was put into an insulated box. The temperatures, deg. C >measured were: >Time Inside Outside >0 min 25 25 deg. C >8 min 26 26 >15 25 25.5 >30 25.5 25.5 > >The temperature did not increase! I tried to measure the input >current, power and duty >cycle with a scope across a 10 Ohm sense resistor without luck- Could >see lots of high frequency hash only, during the ~5%, >100 Volts peak. > >As a comparison, I placed a 1 watt load into the box and measured: >Time Inside Outside >0 min 26 26 deg. C >15 30 25.5 >30 30 25.5 >-Dave > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 14 01:51:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA14744; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:50:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:50:04 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:49:44 +0200 (MET DST) From: Berkant Goeksel X-Sender: aybchgdj@hercules.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE To: Lee Markland Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravitational anomaly In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980913091149.00f74df0@rockisland.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"y9UhT1.0.Dc3.yYD_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6364 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee, Bob, Rick and All! We should support the view of Lee. It's correct. Let's give up mass gravity concept and look for gravity as a current force caused by a physical process. What about tachyons which are obviously superluminal neutrinos (=gravitons?). Everybody interested in recent advances in electromagnetism should have a look to the following papers about subluminal and superluminal electromagnetism. For deeper insight you can use my propulsion site (e.g. Prof. Richard W. Ziolkowski's or Prof. Lu's Homepage). It's great stuff which will breakdown the relativity principle in the next time. Is there any way out? Don't ask me. Sorry, this are the words of the authors (professors) in the following papers. I am only an undergraduate student. By the way, what about riding on a tachyon beam? -) Let me quote again the Heim theory. According to Heim gravitons are partly situated in the fifth dimension. You can generate them by killing time using present day radar technology methods (often described by Tom Bearden). Such a concept was already published in the 50s. Heim was the author. Is that the current Prof. Elizabeth Rauscher was talking in her foreword? However, it's real hyperdimensional physics. The authors in the following papers use hypercomplex number theories like those used in Dirac's neutrino sea theory or Prof. Kuessner's more advanced lectures. Here are the papers located in the preprint server: 1. 9511181: Maxwell and Dirac Theories as an already unified theory 2. 9511182: Subluminal and superluminal solutions in vacuum of the Maxwell equations and massless Dirac equations. 3. 9606128: On the equation... 4. 9606171: On the Existence of Undistorted Progressive Waves (UPWs) of Arbitrary Speeds o<=v<>infinity in Nature 5. 9607073: Dirac-Hestenes Spinor Fields in Riemann-Cartan Spacetime 6. 9607231: Subluminal and superluminal electromagnetic waves and the lepton mass spectrum The special conditioned electromagnetic waves of Dr. Terence W. Barrett and David Frohning are nothing other than neutrino waves (electrostatic waves) which have higher topolgy called SU(2). There are many ways which lead to Rom. Why not take the easiest one and use ferroelectric ceramics as mentioned by Dr. Thomas Townsend Brown etc.? Nice fishings. Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 14 02:21:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA18081; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 02:20:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 02:20:13 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:20:01 +0200 (MET DST) From: Berkant Goeksel X-Sender: aybchgdj@hercules.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE To: John Winterflood Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Minato's Wheel ??? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980909093806.009bac90@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"V_nmt3.0.PQ4.C_D_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6365 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All! why searching for gravitational waves if could almost generate them with present or perhaps past day technologies in the lab? I suppose the cat is running away and we should think about how to catch it.-) Maybe no I have to be afraid about men in black. Sorry, it's really bad humor. Let's forget the joke. Normally I don'd like such thing. But I love righteous people. So science has to be more funny without dogmas etc. Then we can think freely and find inconsistencies in a lovely way. So let me quote one more time the wise words of Dr. Bernhard Haisch: "Be sceptical about the Sceptics." I should go back to study. University is coming to open the doors for the next term. Thank you. Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 14 02:45:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA21649; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 02:44:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 02:44:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:44:18 +0200 (MET DST) From: Berkant Goeksel X-Sender: aybchgdj@hercules.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE To: Tim Kaiser Cc: freenrg-l Subject: Re: Biefeld-Brown and Neumann Electrodynamics? In-Reply-To: <004a01bdddd8$6f7a4380$957584d0@tim> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ugetT1.0.9I5.wLE_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6366 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All! sorry, I forgot to add the following interesting reference: Donald Redd (1994) Archetypal Vortex Topology in Nature. Spec. Sci. and Tech. 17, pp.205-224. You can find another paper by Don in the book Advances in Electromagnetism edited by Dr. T. W. Barrett. Otherwise take the link on the site http://www.physik.tu-berlin.de/~bgoeksel/propulsion/propul2.html. But now I should slowly leave the list. Once more, thank you. I learned really much. No joke! Best regards, Berkant Goeksel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 14 07:51:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA27762; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:45:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:45:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809141445.HAA28260@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: cooling effect observed? Resent-Message-ID: <"7CKmE1.0.in6.wlI_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6367 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi David and all, At 10:54 AM 9/13/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Dave and All > >-----Original Message----- >From: dave dameron >>The coil was about 3km of AWG 33 wire, about 18,000 turns, 2000 Ohms. >>I connected it to a 414 Volt power supply through a motor driven >interrupter. >>The rpm was about 2000 with 2 contacts/revolution. >>If the contact was good, the duty cycle would have been 5%. > > >*Was the 414V supply AC or DC? DC. 414 Volts was measured with the coil and interruptor. >*How much current can the supply source? It's rated at 350Volts, 75mA continuous. The average current being drawn is much less than this. >*Have you done energy stored calcs on the coil? It has an inductance of about 5.5H. Have not been successful in measuring the current. The current spikes may be coming from charging the distributed caoacitance from the power supply output capacitor. > >>The coil was put into an insulated box. The temperatures, deg. C measured >were: > > >I take you mean thermally insulated by insulated. Yes. >*Was the box (fairly well) sealed from the outside air? The lid is press fit. The styrofoam is about 3.5cm thick. The thermometer is a dial type with a metal stem inserted into the box. >*Did you measure the temperature of the coil itself (before and during the >experiment)? No. Don't have a surface thermometer. If I get something promising, should get one. Jean-Louis said a 6km coil wasn't long enough? *Does the coil weigh about 1KG? 0.7Kg. >*What diameter is 33AWG wire? About 0.22mm with insulation. > >*How about slowly heating the coil to a fixed temperature above ambient >first (+10C ?), then running the experiment with the power supply then >without the power supply? It would be easier to see if the coil is >contributing to the heating or cooling of itself. Measuring time decays may be easier? > >By the way, it must be nice to have an ambient temperature of 25C :-) Cannot complain! It was about 10pm. >(Sorry for all the questions ;-} ) > > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 14 15:46:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA28367; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:42:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:42:17 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980914053543.00fe0e10@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 05:35:43 -0700 To: Brian Zinkle From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Gravitational anomaly Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Vt1sh1.0.zw6.8lP_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6368 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OK Brian here is something from the Free Energy website. Berkant Goessel is from Germany and has a paper posted on BIONICs, which has been peer reviewed, etc. I can give you his website if you wish. Lee Hi Lee, Bob, Rick and All! We should support the view of Lee. It's correct. Let's give up mass gravity concept and look for gravity as a current force caused by a physical process. What about tachyons which are obviously superluminal neutrinos (=gravitons?). Everybody interested in recent advances in electromagnetism should have a look to the following papers about subluminal and superluminal electromagnetism. For deeper insight you can use my propulsion site (e.g. Prof. Richard W. Ziolkowski's or Prof. Lu's Homepage). It's great stuff which will breakdown the relativity principle in the next time. Is there any way out? Don't ask me. Sorry, this are the words of the authors (professors) in the following papers. I am only an undergraduate student. By the way, what about riding on a tachyon beam? -) Let me quote again the Heim theory. According to Heim gravitons are partly situated in the fifth dimension. You can generate them by killing time using present day radar technology methods (often described by Tom Bearden). Such a concept was already published in the 50s. Heim was the author. Is that the current Prof. Elizabeth Rauscher was talking in her foreword? However, it's real hyperdimensional physics. The authors in the following papers use hypercomplex number theories like those used in Dirac's neutrino sea theory or Prof. Kuessner's more advanced lectures. Here are the papers located in the preprint server: 1. 9511181: Maxwell and Dirac Theories as an already unified theory 2. 9511182: Subluminal and superluminal solutions in vacuum of the Maxwell equations and massless Dirac equations. 3. 9606128: On the equation... 4. 9606171: On the Existence of Undistorted Progressive Waves (UPWs) of Arbitrary Speeds o<=v<>infinity in Nature 5. 9607073: Dirac-Hestenes Spinor Fields in Riemann-Cartan Spacetime 6. 9607231: Subluminal and superluminal electromagnetic waves and the lepton mass spectrum The special conditioned electromagnetic waves of Dr. Terence W. Barrett and David Frohning are nothing other than neutrino waves (electrostatic waves) which have higher topolgy called SU(2). There are many ways which lead to Rom. Why not take the easiest one and use ferroelectric ceramics as mentioned by Dr. Thomas Townsend Brown etc.? Nice fishings. Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 14 18:23:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA17966; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:21:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:21:38 -0700 Message-ID: <35FDC312.647D4BF3@servtech.com> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:29:54 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: T. Townsend Brown Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ktAAd1.0.cO4.Y4S_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6369 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just received 5 of T. Townsend Brown's patents from the patent office. They are interesting, to me, to read. They give a little more detail to the arrangements and the effect than I have seen before (the drawings helped.) (To order, just call the patent office at 703-305-8716.) I am still looking for other people that have *done* some *experiments* to reproduce his results. I would think this would noto be too hard if you had a high voltge unit (up to 250 to 300 kV.) Brown talks about just using a wire for the cathod. Bend it into a semi-circle. Then place a dielectric material between the wire and the anode. Anode is at the focal point of the semi-circle and *small* so the electric field is radial out to cathode. If the dielectric can be made non-linear and heavy, the better. Aside from selecting various dielectrics to try, this doesn't sound too hard (if you have the HV generator.) Has anyone tried this? There's got to be someone out there!! Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 14 20:30:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA12134; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:28:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:28:21 -0700 Message-ID: <35FDDEBA.97886C0D@GroupZ.net> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:27:54 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: T. Townsend Brown References: <35FDC312.647D4BF3@servtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_za_k3.0.Wz2.KxT_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6370 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robert, you should have this anyway...but check out J. Naudin's page, under electrogravitics...for experiments and devices.... http://hometown.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm hope this helps....steve opelc Robert Gray wrote: > > I just received 5 of T. Townsend Brown's patents from the patent office. > > They are interesting, to me, to read. They give a little more detail > to the > arrangements and the effect than I have seen before (the drawings > helped.) > > (To order, just call the patent office at 703-305-8716.) > > I am still looking for other people that have *done* some *experiments* > to reproduce his results. I would think this would noto be too hard if > you had a > high voltge unit (up to 250 to 300 kV.) Brown talks about just using a > wire for the > cathod. Bend it into a semi-circle. Then place a dielectric material > between the wire > and the anode. Anode is at the focal point of the semi-circle and > *small* so the electric > field is radial out to cathode. If the dielectric can be made > non-linear and heavy, the better. > > Aside from selecting various dielectrics to try, this doesn't sound too > hard (if you have > the HV generator.) > > Has anyone tried this? There's got to be someone out there!! > > Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 14 21:03:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA26049; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:01:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:01:17 -0700 From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: <12cad115.35fde57d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:56:45 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: T. Townsend Brown Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Resent-Message-ID: <"M_SQr2.0.xM6.CQU_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6371 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-09-14 22:07:41 EDT, you write: << Aside from selecting various dielectrics to try, this doesn't sound too hard (if you have the HV generator.) Has anyone tried this? There's got to be someone out there!! Bob Gray >> Hi Bob This is Ron Hammar the one that ask if you know Edwin Gray. The motor that he had build back in the 70s was powered by HV spikes that was made by the use of coils, diodes and capacitors. By the way I found his son but all the work his dad had done seems to be gone for he kept most of it in his head. :( Ron From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 14 21:15:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA30159; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:13:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:13:46 -0700 From: RHammar860@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:56:54 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: T. Townsend Brown Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Resent-Message-ID: <"Krd3A2.0.2N7.wbU_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6372 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 98-09-14 22:07:41 EDT, you write: << Aside from selecting various dielectrics to try, this doesn't sound too hard (if you have the HV generator.) Has anyone tried this? There's got to be someone out there!! Bob Gray >> Hi Bob This is Ron Hammar the one that ask if you know Edwin Gray. The motor that he had build back in the 70s was powered by HV spikes that was made by the use of coils, diodes and capacitors. By the way I found his son but all the work his dad had done seems to be gone for he kept most of it in his head. :( Ron From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 14 21:24:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA00946; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:21:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:21:56 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:21:46 +0200 (MET DST) From: Berkant Goeksel X-Sender: aybchgdj@w355zrz To: Lee Markland Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Fullerene and Application In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980914053543.00fe0e10@rockisland.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"CPbOo.0.cE.ZjU_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6373 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee and All! Let's repeat the wise word's of Dr. Bernhard Haisch: "Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers." I am on the second level now and could lift you up if you want. Everybody interested in Buckminster Fuller's work should visit the website of Robert W. Gray (http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray). Bob is the guy who started the question about the current and BB effect. Just remember. Once more thank you for your question. Okay. Has anyone ever heard about photophoresis? However, think about gravity. Gravitational waves are told to be quadrupolar spherical scalar waves. This means spherical symmetry is essential. Does it rings bells. No? Let's continue. Where in nature you can find spherical structures ? One thing we all heard are fullerene, recently discovered!? They are black because it's nothing other as highly organized carbon structures. It's possible to introduce heavy metal atoms in the center. What about elements like Uran? Think about it. Now back to photophoresis. Take some fullerene pulver (very expensive) inside a glass tube and put in a vacuum chamber. Just shake the pulver. Normally all the pulver should fall back to the tube ground. Now take a divergent mercury light source and observe what happens in the lighted area. I claim that most of the pulver would start to levitate. Why? The highly organized structure of the fullere molecules absorb the light and start a killing time procedure because of resonance. What happens is the radiation of gravitational waves I suppose. According to Mr. Heim photons are situated in fourth (time), fifth and sixth dimension. Gravitons are only located in the fifth and six dimensions. It'S timeless in our reality. That's theory like mostly all things but it could help to understand biological technical phenomenons. Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 14 21:48:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA11231; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:47:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:47:02 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809150446.VAA11202@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) From: dave dameron Subject: Re: cooling effect observed? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"qisGc2.0.Jl2.55V_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6374 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tim and all, At 09:48 PM 9/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >Great to see others trying this experiment also. > >Here are some thoughts on ways to enhance detection of possible >temperature drops.. > >1. Use two thermometers accurate to at least 0.1 degrees C (or F), >preferably >0.01 degrees. J. Naudin only detected a drop of 0.2 degrees C. He used >0.1 C resolution temperature probes. Leon Dragone detected up to 0.8 >degrees C. drop. My 2 thermometers now are readable to about 0.25 deg.C. I was hoping that the thermal insulation would increase the temperature difference enough to be easily measured. With my box, 100mW results in a 0.5 deg. C delta. Does anyone know about the National Semiconductor LM35 type of temperature sensor? Are there other preferred ones, like from Omega engineering? Was Leon's drop without insulation 0.8 deg. C or 2 deg F. (a 40% larger value)? > >2. Study J. Naudins commutator. He says a noisy commutator seems to work >better. This would mean a higher pulse rate. Dragone used a micrometer >adjustable spark gap. He had to carefully tune it for the "singing" >spark. Yes, my interrupter is "noisy" also, especially after a few minutes of running with mechanical rubbing and arcing. No luck with an arc gap yet. I read your TEC post again. It seems to be an atomic (electronic) effect, thus should work in any length or shape conductor with a transient pulse? Do you have any more ideas why the long coil length, a "macro" property should be important to the electrons? -Dave > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 14 23:11:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA07786; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:08:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:08:44 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:07:46 +0200 (MET DST) From: Berkant Goeksel X-Sender: aybchgdj@hercules.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE To: Lee Markland Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravitational anomaly In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980914053543.00fe0e10@rockisland.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uSd8N1.0.av1.hHW_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6375 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee, Thomas and All! It's a wonderful morning. Birds are singing. I am writing. In the last night I thought about Heim. He seems to be a unique theoretical physicist in our present time(!) who obviously successfully started the theoretical attempt to explain more phenomenons than we can experience with our common senses. Some other like Wheeler etc. tried similar ways but probably never reached Heim's level. Maybe there are some other we never heard about. Just look for. But the advancement of Heim is a possible explanation why he was never highly interested to publish. Who would understand or even try to understand him? Maybe the military? So he primaly searched for himself. But he loves to hold lectures to open minded people. In fact, I was very sceptical in the beginning. Now I am sceptical about my own sceptics. As I visited him and his wife I was impressed to see a highly refreshing soul. He is funny and seems to be able to talk about everything, also what happens around the world (news). Just remember, during an accident with energetic materials in World Wor II Heim lost great part of his arms. He can't see well etc. In Goettingen he worked with scientist like Pascal Jordan and von Weiszaecker (a brother of the former German president) etc. Just remember the article by Major Keyhoe. Von Weiszaecker is one of the leading theoretical physicists in Germany. The theory of Heim is six (now twelve) dimensional. He published books (not mainstream publishers) about the relations of physics and what some call methaphysics. In view of Heim they are connected. So he try to explain what could happen after death, paranormal events and many many other things we can read in esoteric areas and normally don't like to believe. Maybe when we deeply think about such things we can learn to forget our fear of death. There are dimensional parts of you which will never die. If we accept such 'metaphysical' things behind reality we will find together ways to make our dreams reality and use very advanced technologies in a lovely way. As Tom Bearden wrote, it's in your hand to make your world your hell or your paradise. It's not exactly his words but the content is similar. Here we are searching for so called free energy devices and claim that there are no such things ever produced. Some guys are really fighting. For what? For us because you believe to be able to give us the key to infinite energy? Or are you fighting because you believe that someone will steel your findings? Who can steel something which is already available and was never secret. There are no secrets. Sorry, I can't believe what happens here. On the other hand have you ever included nature? Have you ever thought once again that you are almost in great part a overunity 'device' because of your hyperdimensional structure and unique symmetry (just remember DaVinchi's human inscribed in a circle, the symbol of infinity). Just think about your highly polarized cell membranes. Peter Nielsen wrote several days ago that resonance seems to be essential. Has anyone made any response? It tells much about you and you... Maybe everything is living, just everything. Just think. Just think together. That's a good way to realize your mind over matter. Are you ready? Yes. Then, don't cry, just act and take responsibility. Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 14 23:51:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA16733; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:49:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:49:57 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:49:51 +0200 (MET DST) From: Berkant Goeksel X-Sender: aybchgdj@hercules.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Fullerene and Application Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"J4dvb3.0.N54.LuW_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6376 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee and All! Let's repeat the wise word's of Dr. Bernhard Haisch: "Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers." I am on the second level now and could lift you up if you want. Everybody interested in Buckminster Fuller's work should visit the website of Robert W. Gray (http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray). Bob is the guy who started the question about the current and BB effect. Just remember. Once more thank you for your question. Okay. Has anyone ever heard about photophoresis? However, think about gravity. Gravitational waves are told to be quadrupolar spherical scalar waves. This means spherical symmetry is essential. Does it rings bells. No? Let's continue. Where in nature you can find spherical structures ? One thing we all heard are fullerene, recently discovered!? They are black because it's nothing other as highly organized carbon structures. It's possible to introduce heavy metal atoms in the center. What about elements like Uran? Think about it. Now back to photophoresis. Take some fullerene pulver (very expensive) inside a glass tube and put in a vacuum chamber. Just shake the pulver. Normally all the pulver should fall back to the tube ground. Now take a divergent mercury light source and observe what happens in the lighted area. I claim that most of the pulver would start to levitate. Why? The highly organized structure of the fullere molecules absorb the light and start a killing time procedure because of resonance. What happens is the radiation of gravitational waves I suppose. According to Mr. Heim photons are situated in fourth (time), fifth and sixth dimension. Gravitons are only located in the fifth and six dimensions. It'S timeless in our reality. That's theory like mostly all things but it could help to understand biological technical phenomenons. Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 00:28:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA23190; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:27:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:27:29 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:27:23 +0200 (MET DST) From: Berkant Goeksel X-Sender: aybchgdj@hercules.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"UjlhV2.0.Gg5.XRX_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6377 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All! Everybody interested in exotic materials (ferroelectrics, fullerens, superconductors etc.) should be informed about the Jahn-Teller effect. In 1996 the XIII. Jahn-Teller Syposium was hold in Berlin. Berlin University of Technology is also leading in solid-state physics. Let's visit the location: http://troubadix.physik.tu-berlin.de/jt/symp.html. This year the XIV. JT98 was in Italy (http://martine2.difi.unipi.it/~jt98/index.html). There you can find a lot about (sympathetic) vibratory physics (electron-phonon couplings etc). It's really a musical universe. So resonances are fundamental in this dicrete system. For Dr. Barrett the space-time metric (gravitational metric or aether) is a neutrino network: http://www.physik.tu-berlin.de/~bgoeksel/propulsion/barrett.htm. By the way, the experiments by Jean-Louis Naudin are great. The question of Bob should be answered. But now we should look behind the physical process. Maybe Jean-Louis is so kindly to add a link to my propulsion site. Thank you in advance. Best regards, Berkant From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 01:33:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA02765; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:32:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:32:27 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 03:41:04 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Report re Phoenix, Part B Resent-Message-ID: <"NWMUM3.0.6h.ROY_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6379 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Report re Phoenix, Part B -- continued from Part A Synopsis of what Joseph Newman stated at his Phoenix presentation: Several months ago, Joseph Newman was approached by a motor manufacturing company (presently having about 45 employees) in Pennsylvania with a proposal to construct a commercial template Motor/Generator utilizing his technology. In going back through my Archives, I discovered that about a year earlier I had received a letter from one of the principal engineers with the company, requesting information. Information was sent to the engineer and that was the last I heard from him or the company until they approached Joseph Newman earlier this year. An Agreement was reached between Joseph Newman and the CEO of the motor manufacturing company (a man, I am told, in his mid-30's) to: Produce TWO (2) commercial versions of Joe's motor as soon as possible. Once these motors have been tested and perform as expected, then the manufacturing company would be the first to commercially produce the technology. An Agreement was signed by Joe and the company's CEO. In addition this individual signed a Confidential Disclosure Agreement relating to the technology. Final design and production of the commercial-type motor began in late Spring. The intention was to construct a Motor capable of delivering up to 20 HP which could operate as a stand-alone unit (to supply rotational torque for purposes such as irrigation, etc.) or connected to a conventional generator to produce up to 10kW which, I am told, should supply the electrical consumption requirements for the standard home. Joe planned to show the engineers at the manufacturing company the Motor's design and enable them to construct the commercial template motors. The chief engineer (who had originally contacted me by letter) seemed to quickly grasp the essence of the technology and the nature of the design specifications. Over several weeks, Joe would commute between Pennsylvania and Colorado, checking on the progress of the project. Joe also arranged for a gentleman (Mr. Benz, who had assisted him over the years and who has known him since 1984) to remain on-site to help with production. It became apparent to Joe that the abilities of the on-site engineers and motor builders were not as knowledgeable in understanding construction of the Motor as he had assumed, so Joe ended up spending more and more time in Pennsylvania to build the motor. [Also: Mr. Benz was in attendance at the Phoenix presentation and publicly corroborated events relating to the motor manufacturing company in Pennsylvania.] Towards the conclusion of the construction period, Joe stayed nearly an entire month in Pennsylvania and devoted 12-18 hours per day in the unit's construction. In addition, Joe brought several thousand dollars worth of his own neodymium magnets from Colorado to install in the motor under construction. The Pennsylvania company also did not proceed with simultaneous construction of the 2nd Motor even though the Agreement stated that both Motors would be produced "as soon as possible." [The original Agreement stipulated that one of the Motors constructed would become Joe's and the other would become that of the company's.] When construction was completed by mid-Summer, torque testing began. I was informed that in one instance two engineers (each individual weighing over 160 lbs) stood on either side of a wooden beam attached to (in a specific manner) and designed to apply a torque load to the operating shaft of the motor. In every case they were unable to have any noticeable affect upon the rpm rate of the shaft and could not "choke it down". The engineers were amazed by the unit's performance and efficiency. Joe then notified the engineers early in the week of August 3rd that his son's birthday was on August 10th and he planned to drive back to Colorado within several days with the newly constructed motor since he has promised his son that he would be present for his birthday. He also announced that he intended to hold a demonstration in the West with the new Motor although a date was not selected at that time. On Thursday of the week of August 3rd, Joe had been making finishing adjustments to his Motor and, after being up through the night completing such adjustments, he retired for an afternoon nap before a long drive back to Colorado. At about 7pm Joe returned to the company to load up the motor. Having been given a key to the company site, he went to the area where the motor was kept and discovered to his amazement that several individuals (the chief engineer and several employees) had substantially taken the motor apart without his knowledge or permission. He stated that they were unable to offer any explanation for their action except that they had wanted to "check out a possible short in the motor." He was very upset with their unannounced action and proceeded to gather up the component parts to be reassembled later when he returned to Colorado. The chief engineer who has been his principal contact with the company helped him load the Motor into his van and he then proceeded to head back to Colorado. At about 10pm that same evening, I received a telephone call from Olivia Newman (Joe's wife) who was in Castle Rock, Colorado. She sounded extremely upset. Apparently the owner of the Motor company had contacted her by telephone and immediately began shouting at her and issuing multiple threats in a loud, abusive tone of voice. He threated to have the "FBI" and the "police" arrest Joe when he showed up at his home in Colorado. She described the tone in his voice as both anger and PANIC. It was the panic of someone who had seemingly "lost control" over something that was very valuable to him. Since Joe was on the road somewhere between PA and CO, I told her to simply stay calm since there was nothing that she could do until she spoke with Joe. At a bit past midnight I received another telephone call from Olivia who told me that Joe had just called her (while he was en route) and that he was both surprised and upset that the owner of the company would call her, threaten her and Joe, and so abuse and intimidate her on the telephone. Joe stated that the individual was apparently "up to something" and could not understand why the man would sound so desperate in having the Motor removed from Pennsylvania since Joe was and had been prepared (for the proceeding several months) to assist with the construction of the second Motor per the original Agreement and he had notified personnel for several days that he planned to returned to Colorado with the Motor. Yet the company had never made any effort to follow through with the original terms of the Agreement and construct "as soon as possible" the second motor, as the Agreement stated. Joseph Newman has yet to see either the "police" nor the "FBI" emerge, as threatened by this individual in Pennsylvania. Within the terms of the original Agreement, Joseph Newman has stated that he had every right to take Motor #1 -- especially since he ended up physically constructing about 90% of the Motor and also installed several thousand dollars worth of his own neodymium magnets into the unit. The matter has now become an interchange of letters between Joseph Newman's attorney in Colorado and an attorney representing the CEO in Pennsylvania. I have seen the signed copies of both the Disclosure Documents signed by this CEO as well as the original Agreement signed by the CEO. Joe's position is that on the evening when he returned to the company to obtain the Motor, those who had disassembled the Motor without his knowledge or permission had done something to damage the Motor either intentionally (through sabotage) or in error. It should also be noted that the motor manufacturing company is a component supplier to the General Electric Company who, Joe believes has wanted to control this technology for many years without entering into a royalty agreement with its innovator. Joe has speculated that some entity (such as GE) had made an "agreement" with the CEO of the motor manufacturing company that, "if they could prevent Joseph Newman from having permanent possession of the motor, disassemble it and claim that it did not work, while turning over the physical motor (evidence) and specs to GE (or any such entity), that the individual involved would be 'rewarded'." Three questions that Joe asks: 1) If the Motor did not work, then why would be CEO be so desperate and frantic to get it back?; and 2) Why did the owner sound so desperate and threaten Olivia as he did, unless he felt that he had suddenly lost control over a situation that could have been very personally 'profitable' to him at Joe's expense? and 3) Why did those employees (knowing that Joe was to return to the company site that evening to take the Motor with him to Colorado) suddenly take the Motor apart at the last minute without Joe's knowledge or permission? On Wednesday, August 26th Joe notified me that he would be scheduling a demonstration of the new motor on September 12, 1998 and that two weeks notice should be adequate to allow people to make arrangements to attend the demonstration. He asked me to post the information on the website and to notify as many people as possible over the internet. I asked him if the Motor was ready to demonstrate. He said that it was not, but that it would be ready in time for the 12th. I told him that I thought it would be more prudent if he first totally completed construction then, secondly, completed a thorough series of test protocols, and THEN schedule the demonstration. He informed me that the unit would be ready to demonstrate on the 12th and requested that I post notices to that effect. I then proceeded to follow his instructions and posted to the internet. During those c. two weeks, Joe also proceeded to begin relocating from Colorado to Arizona. He had also announced that a Dynamometer would be employed to conclusively prove the nature of the torque and input power applied to the Motor. It soon became obvious that a Dynamometer (of a type/size applicable to the technology) would not be easy to locate. Initial price estimates ranged from $12,000, to over $20,000. Several people were working on trying to locate an appropriate Dynamometer. Finally, one was located and purchased two days prior to the demonstration --- a unit which costs $5,000. [It was later determined at the Phoenix presentation that the unit was not properly calibrated by the manufacturer.] Within the weeks prior to September 12th (the day of the presentation), it was apparent to Joe that whatever those individuals had done to the Motor in Pennsylvania on that final night -- it was not performing as it originally had performed because the shaft would hardly turn. As the September 12th deadline approached, Joe assured everyone that he would determine the problem and have it fixed in time for the presentation. He and engineer Milton Everett -- (resident of Phoenix and formerly of Mississippi who was the first engineer [of many] to come publicly forward in 1981 after having tested Joe's prototypes and endorsed the technology) -- worked on the unit. Back in 1981, Milton was HIGHLY skeptical at first and had stated that it took 3 visits to Joe's lab in Lucedale and extensive testing of his prototypes to know that the technology works. Milton has retired as an engineer with the Mississippi Department of Energy, is now living in Phoenix and has been assisting Joe there. Although Milt and Joe were up all night before the Demonstration working on the unit and also trying to get the Dynamometer operational, their efforts were for naught. The motor would still not properly operate. According to Milton, the unit's wiring needed to be thoroughly checked out again to make certain that there was no electrical shorting. As I write this, approximately 10 individuals (mostly from other areas of the country) have remained in Phoenix to see a demonstration of the Motor after Joe and Milton have had the opportunity to thoroughly check out and rebuild the unit as necessary. It is my hope that the unit will perform as stated and can be witnessed/videotaped by these individuals. _________________________________ Other than the Technical Explanation and Theory innovated by Joe, no one with whom I have ever communicated has been able to provide a definitive explanation for the anomalies produced by the many prototypes Joe has constructed over the years: results verified by hundreds of different meters, oscilloscopes and proney break testing. [Oscilloscope photographs are available to anyone requesting them.] Over a period of 30 years, Joe developed his Technical Explanation and Theory which he has presented in his book. His Theory of the Gyroscopic Massergy provides a precise and explicit mechanical explanation for Fleming's Rule and Magnetic Attraction/Repulsion. Joe has consistently encouraged others to build their own prototypes for their own use and experimentation. Others have done this and, like Jean-Naudin in France, have also reported a "cooling effect" produced by the system. I believe that these areas should be investigated in detail and every effort should be made to understand these observed anomalies. I applaud the more than 30 scientists who have signed Affidavits attesting to the operability of the technology and many of whom have publicly appeared with Joe (with their speeches preserved in videotape format) to endorse his work at presentations of the technology over the years: in New Orleans, Louisiana, in Jackson, Mississippi, in Atlanta, Georgia, in Biloxi, Mississippi, in Mobile, Alabama, and in Washington, D.C. Personal note: As I stated above, I have worked with Joe for more than 15 years. For the first four years, Joe was financially able to reimburse me for my telephone calls and postage/printing expenses that I expended on his behalf. For the past 11 years I have donated my time, money, and resources to help Joe bring forth this technology. My telephone expenses alone (which are considerable in the course of a month) and all website expenses and related internet/computer/printing expenses are borne by myself. So it has been for over a decade since Joe exhausted his available financial resources on legal battles with the patent bureaucracy and in purchasing new equipment/materials/parts to construct new generations of prototypes. >From personal experience, I know that Joe will continue to fight to bring forth this technology until he breathes his last breath. I will continue to volunteer my efforts to help him since I also believe in the importance of the technology, as does Milton Everett, Darryl Bonz, and many others. While anyone may prefer that Joe operationally plan his strategy and present his technology in a given manner, Joe is the only person who has the total and final control over how he proceeds. It may well be that those who have followed and hopefully mastered this technology (and there are hundreds of such individuals with whom I have corresponded over the past two years) will be also able to assist in bringing forth this technology through new applications and downstream developments long after the innovator is gone. For better or worse, this is how it happened with Wilbur Wright. Joseph Newman does not have access to the internet (I am in New Orleans and he is Phoenix at the moment) nor does he read internet posts. Specific questions regarding Joe's plans for the technology and the development of the Motor should be addressed to Joseph Newman at: (602) 977-2813 (Phoenix), or (602) 583-4333 (Phoenix), or (303) 814-3403 (Castle Rock), or 2050 Vineyard Drive Castle Rock, CO 80104 Milton Everett (in Phoenix) at: (602) 546-4031 Sincerely, Evan Soule' LATE UPDATE: 9/14/98 I have now been informed that Joseph Newman has made repairs on and demonstrated his Motor in Phoenix to 10 individuals who had arranged to remain in Phoenix through Monday. The newly-purchased dynamometer is still not functioning and the manufacturer is being consulted. Early Monday morning, Milton Everett and Joe had the unit drawing only 150 milliamps (with 110 volt input) and the rotating shaft of the unit could not be choked down. Following a period of testing it was believed that a wire came loose. After making additional checks on the unit it was demonstrated in the afternoon to the aforementioned 10 individuals. During this test the unit drew 2 amps and 110 volts and the current did _not_ go up when individuals attempted to choke down the shaft of the unit with their hands. Every attempt by the individuals present to hold down (choke) the shaft as it operated was unsuccessful -- the unit's shaft continued to turn and everyone expressed the fact that a very powerful torque was quite evident. In fact, even from a dead stop, the unit's shaft could not be held still once the 220 watts were applied. [Within the 400-lb machine, 90 lbs of copper have been utilized.] Joseph Newman has stated that he can hold down the shaft of a 5HP conventional electric motor from a dead stop and prevent it from rotating once current is applied. Joseph Newman welcomes positive and constructive input. In addition, Joseph Newman made this statement to me on the telephone this evening: "To anyone who does NOT believe that this unit has performed as indicated -- and as witnessed by those who specifically stayed in Phoenix to see it -- and/or who does not believe in the efficacy of this technology, I challenge you to contact me directly at the above telephone numbers and confront me with any comment, criticism, or input." I reported to him that I had received several negative (as well as positive) comments about him on the internet following the Phoenix presentation. Joe's reply: "It is typical that such people never have the courage to state such negative comments to my face or call me on the telephone and tell them to me directly. Unless they have the courage to do this, such comments mean nothing to me." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 01:33:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA02709; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:32:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:32:17 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 03:40:53 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Report re Phoenix, Part A Resent-Message-ID: <"Bg44X3.0.8g.HOY_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6378 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Everyone --- to friends, supporters, interested parties, skeptics, and sceptics: I have assisted Joseph Newman for over 15 years. I have done so honestly and sincerely with all the dedication I can "muster." Having returned from Arizona to Louisiana, I would like to provide the following text of my introduction for Joe on Saturday, September 12, 1998 in Phoenix, Arizona at the Sonoran Plaza Ballroom in Sun City Grand, Arizona. This will be followed by a Report of statements by Joseph Newman and recent developments. ___________________________________ Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Sun City Grand and a unique presentation. I know that some of you have traveled great distances to attend this presentation and I appreciate your sincere interest in this technology. My name is Evan Soule' and I have worked with Joseph Newman for many years. In fact, it was just this time of the year 15 years ago that I learned about Joseph Newman's work for the first time. In 1983 I was presenting in New Orleans the intellectual products of an astrophysicist named Andrew J. Galambos. One of the students enrolled in a course I was presenting alerted me to a multi-part documentary being featured by WWL-TV based in New Orleans. After viewing several of the TV segments, I contacted the television station and learned that Joseph Newman would be coming to New Orleans within two weeks to make a presentation to the Graduate Student Society of the IEEE at the Electrical Engineering College of Tulane University. I made arrangements to attend the Tulane presentation and I was very impressed with what I saw and heard. From that point forward I offered to assist Joseph Newman in any way that I could. Over the years I have maintained contact with the former Graduate Student who organized that original presentation. He is now an electrical engineer based in Georgia. He once told me something very interesting which only serves to underscore the reaction by some members of the conventional scientific community to Joseph Newman's work. At the time that he was arranging that presentation by Joseph Newman at Tulane University, the reaction from the students was very positive - they were interested to hear and, if necessary, challenge Joseph Newman. In fact, more than 60 electrical engineering students attended that IEEE presentation. However, the graduate student organizer told me that he was truly frustrated and saddened by the reaction of his electrical engineering professors and instructors. While he invited ALL such professors to the IEEE meeting, EVERY SINGLE PROFESSOR boycotted Joseph Newman's presentation despite repeated invitations from the students for the professors to attend the presentation. I believe that the actions of those professors speaks volumes about the intellectual dishonesty which has become rampant throughout the academic community. Fortunately there are those conventionally-educated scientists and engineers who DO have intellectual honesty and who are willing to approach a new technology with an open mind. Over the years more than 30 such scientists have tested, endorsed, and signed legal Affidavits attesting to the operability of Joseph Newman's Motor/Generator. I have considerable respect and admiration for these individuals. But with respect to the aforementioned professors, I believe Max Planck's famous quotation says it all: "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it" And on a positive note, it's been said that: "Every creative act involves a new innocence of perception liberated from the cataract of accepted belief." It will be the next generation that ultimately brings this technology forward. Through the internet, I have been in contact with thousands of students from around the world as well as in the United States and Canada. These students receive information with open minds that have not been biased and prejudiced by years of memorization. In addition, engineers from many different countries have contacted me to request information about Joseph Newman's technology. Slowly, but surely, his ideas are being disseminated across the planet. Having been a student of history - especially the history of the innovation and transmission of revolutionary scientific ideas - what strikes me is that there is a common thread running through the disclosure of such ideas to the world at large. It seems that the bigger the idea and the more profound its impact upon society, the greater the opposition. A better mousetrap inventor might have a relatively easy time of introducing his new product into the marketplace. But history has demonstrated that with an innovation as important as the Invention of the Aeroplane, the innovators are very likely to meet tremendous opposition. Actually, I have found that this opposition happens in a certain sequence: First there exists the innovation. Then some ridicule the innovation of being "impossible". Then others attempt to steal the innovation and claim it as their own. Then, much later, when the innovation is in full use throughout society, there are those people who talk about the innovation and say, "What's the big deal? It is obvious. Everybody knows that." As Christian Morgenstern said, "The obvious is that which is never seen until someone expresses it simply." In the space of one day, I had waiting for me in my email in-box the following: One email letter congratulating Joseph Newman on his pioneering work of the past 35 years and reporting independent construction of his technology by another. Another email letter attacking Joseph Newman's work as "impossible" and nothing more than a fraud. Still another email letter reporting evidence of the theft of Joseph Newman's pioneering technology by another individual attempting to claim it as his own. Thus we have first the innovation, then the ridicule, then the theft. This vicious cycle of innovation-ridicule-theft which destroys the incentive of the innovator MUST STOP if we are ever to truly mature as a species! As you may know, Wilbur Wright died an early death. I attribute his death in part to the despondency he suffered at the hands of that intellectual thief - Glenn Curtiss - who attempted to plunder the Wright Brothers Innovation. And for the remaining several decades of his life Orville was left to battle a long, lonely fight with the Smithsonian Institution to recognize that he and his brother Wilbur were the TRUE pioneering innovators of the Aeroplane. What other great innovations would have been developed by the Wright Brothers if they had not been so plundered and attacked? We will never know..... but yet we all suffer in the long run by their mistreatment. Joseph Newman should have been issued a patent for his pioneering innovation over 15 years ago. If this had been done, then future innovations/improvements to his technology could have occurred in a natural and productive fashion that would benefit all humanity. As it now stands, Joseph Newman has no recourse but to fight (as did Orville Wright) for what he believes in and for what rightfully belongs to him. And, as he has stated publicly many times, he fights not just for Joseph Newman but for all humanity and for all future innovators who should not need to be subjected to the injustices he has repeatedly suffered. [Sidebar addendum: whenever I travel by aeroplane, I always make it a personal point to mentally thank Orville and Wilbur Wright at the moment of take-off. This is my small way of paying primary gratitude to two human beings who took it upon themselves to make the world a better place for everyone. (I prefer to use the "aeroplane" spelling rather than "airplane" spelling since the former was that originally utilized by the Wright Brothers.)] Some people cannot identify with the anger felt by Joseph Newman or no doubt felt by Orville and Wilbur Wright towards the intellectual thief, Glenn Curtiss. This may be in part because such people do not have major innovations of their own (upon which they have labored all their life). But if a common criminal stole their automobile, or burned down their home, or robbed them at gunpoint, you can be sure that those same individuals would be incensed and outraged by such plunder initiated against them. Yet, when an innovator is plundered of his life's work, some people cannot identify with such plunder. This is unfortunate, because the plunder of innovators affects ALL OF US in the long run - directly or indirectly. If Wilbur, Orville and others in frustration and despair give up innovating, then we will never enjoy the benefits of their productive minds. There are some who postulate that if Isaac Newton had not been so frustrated with many of his fellow humans, and had he not essentially chose to squander (from our timescale perspective) decades of the most productive years of his life as the 'Master of the Royal Mint' - then we might now be well on our way to the stars. This is the "leverage" of the innovator: Foster and protect innovation and we can "move the earth." Stifle, plunder, and attack innovation and we will all suffer the consequences. Looking back over the way in which many major innovators have been treated throughout history - whether it's Galileo being threatened with death for his ideas, or Giordano Bruno being burned alive, or Goddard being publicly ridiculed for his ideas - is this to be the FUTURE history of the Spirit of American Innovation? Will future generations look back at the history of American Innovation and describe it as follows: "Such innovation was born in the resiliency of the Pioneer, and died in the suffocating arms of cynics and bureaucrats." I hope this is not the case, which is why I make my case for the importance of the innovator to the future of humanity. The cynical and bureaucratic resistance to innovation has its roots in negativism - which is the antithesis of such innovation. All too often a bureaucrat's non-creative solution to a problem facing humanity is to pass more political laws and regulations that only serve to restrict the creativity of us all - in other words, the motto of the bureaucrat is: "everything that is not forbidden is compulsory." Well, it's time for a change . . . a new beginning. And the speaker that you're about to hear has just such a new beginning in mind. A new beginning is what is needed to launch our species to the stars. A new beginning is what is needed to utilize a new technology that harnesses the very essence of our universe. As a major physicist of our century once said: "Sic Itur Ad Astra" - this IS the way to the stars. A couple of Ohio bicycle mechanics changed history in this century. A Russian schoolteacher from the past century is the father of modern rocketry. An obscure Austrian doctor innovated a complete cure for puerperal fever. Yes, the independent innovator is alive and well. I'm sure you have heard the famous quotation, "If I have seen farther than others, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants." When Isaac Newton said this, he was standing on the shoulders of Aristarchus, of Archimedes, of Copernicus, of Galileo, of Kepler. The man I am introducing today has also seen farther than others. And it is because, in part, because he stands upon the shoulders of Joseph Black, of Michael Faraday, of James Clerk Maxwell, and of Albert Einstein. Our history of the development of knowledge, of the struggle of innovation and inventors, represent our effort as a species to understand the universe. >From a seemingly simply but profound integration of thought processes based upon direct observation and experimentation, the speaker you are about to hear has moved our species closer to a greater understanding of the universe. Driven by that loftiest of human attributes - curiosity and enquiry - it is his thirty-five year persistence in the face of bureaucratic indifference, stupidity, ridicule, and academic intellectual dishonesty, that has enabled him to develop our access to a new source of energy that is actually as old as the universe itself. In essence, the speaker you are about to hear has a personal philosophy which could best be summed up as follows: "If it can't be done, it interests me." And like the Wright Brothers, whose bicycle shop helped them to finance their quest to fly in a heavier-than-air machine, the speaker has utilized his successful inventions to help finance his quest to create and develop a revolutionary energy machine. In his endorsement, one physicist who worked extensively with the inventor, once wrote, "The future of the human race may be dramatically uplifted by the large-scale, commercial development of this invention." Dr. Robert E. Smith, former Chief of the Orbital and Space Environment Branch at the NASA George C. Marshall Space Flight Center wrote regarding our speaker: "If the manner in which he conducted his experiments and the results were made known to the industrial or engineering community then, in my opinion, several companies and/or individuals possess the expertise and capabilities to construct the hardware required to fully exploit the apparent capability of his new concepts." And Dr. E. L. Moragne, a pioneer in the development of the first atomic bomb, wrote to the speaker: "You have opened an area in Astrophysics which may revolutionize the magnetic energy problems which is now the most paramount problem in future energy and space travel. I do believe with proper research funds, the results would not only be a great financial boon to your financiers, but would lead to developments that will be practical and beneficial to all mankind and develop a new step in science." I have personally known the speaker for 15 years. I will make the following bold statement based upon my knowledge of his work and my observations over the past decade: It is my belief that the speaker today has a deeper and more fundamental MECHANICAL understanding of electromagnetism than anyone alive on this planet. And I make this strong statement NOT to brag about the speaker - for whom I obviously have respect. I make this bold statement to encourage you, the listener, to utilize his talents and understanding to the maximum - while he is alive. Don't repeat the mistakes of our predecessors and provide recognition after the innovator has passed away. This only destroys the incentive of our innovators and impedes for us all, the progress of civilization. The inventor himself has said, "The finished prototype of what I teach will change the world drastically for the good of humanity, more so that any invention before this time." Ladies and Gentlemen, it is now my pleasure to introduce to you, inventor Joseph Newman. ___________________________________________ Evan Soule' end of Report re Phoenix, Part A -- continued in Part B From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 04:54:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA03448; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 04:49:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 04:49:42 -0700 Message-ID: <00d301bde09e$7db35040$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Report re Phoenix, Part B Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:46:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"DAQrA1.0.or.MHb_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6380 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Please pass this along to Joe for me, I see no point in making the phone companies richer when we have e-mail. Why on earth after so many years of waiting could he not have taken your advice and waited just a little while longer to ensure everything was working fine? Why the rush in the face of your objections? Also, if he is the world genius that you claim on this technology why the problems in not delivering on time? Certainly with all the experience and knowledge he has, putting one together at this point should be childs play for him. Why not make plans available, certainly all of us here will credit him with the invention, and he will go down in history as the creator, why not help humanity even if it is at a loss to personal gain? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one. >I reported to him that I had received several negative (as well as >positive) comments about him on the internet following the Phoenix >presentation. Joe's reply: "It is typical that such people never have the >courage to state such negative comments to my face or call me on the >telephone and tell them to me directly. Unless they have the courage to do >this, such comments mean nothing to me." From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 06:12:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA22316; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:10:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:10:29 -0700 Message-ID: <35FE5FD2.8FF6B29C@harti.com> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:38:43 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Evan Soule , newman-list Subject: Re:Motor fixed report, any "individuals" want to comment ? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"84Ggm2.0.cS5.5Tc_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6381 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: > Report re Phoenix, Part B -- continued from Part A > > snip... Can the company and CEO be named now or is this still under non disclosure agreement ? Maybe Joe should have told this part B documentation in front of the audience, so everyone would have known, why there was no demo. Then everyone could have understood and would not have been so disapointed.. > > > > > Sincerely, > > Evan Soule' > > LATE UPDATE: 9/14/98 > I have now been informed that Joseph Newman has made repairs on and > demonstrated his Motor in Phoenix to 10 individuals who had arranged to > remain in Phoenix through Monday. Could these 10 "individuals" please be named ? Do they have email addresses ? Or do they wish to stay anonymous ? If yes, please ask them to write an anonymous report for the Newman-List. > The newly-purchased dynamometer is still > not functioning and the manufacturer is being consulted. Early Monday > morning, Milton Everett and Joe had the unit drawing only 150 milliamps > (with 110 volt input) and the rotating shaft of the unit could not be > choked down. Following a period of testing it was believed that a wire > came loose. After making additional checks on the unit it was demonstrated > in the afternoon to the aforementioned 10 individuals. During this test the > unit drew 2 amps and 110 volts and the current did _not_ go up when > individuals attempted to choke down the shaft of the unit with their hands. By saying: "not going up" What do you mean by this: Does it mean: It does not go up another ONE Ampere. Or does it mean: It just only GOES UP a few milliAmperes... If it does not go up at least a few milliamps, then he really has an exciting new motor... When I visited Newman in 1987 in his Lucedale lab, his Fan motor drew more milliamps, when I tried to stop the fan on the shaft, so this breaking worked according to normal theory...although the fan motor has had quite an amazing torque already... but unfortunately Newman never published mechanical output power ratings of this fan motor... When I spoke with Dr. Roger Hastings once on the phone, he told me, the fan motor was only about 90 % efficient mechanically versus the 2000 Volts and about 2 to 5 milliamps input...(about 4 to 10 Watts DC input) I don´t know, if he lied to me or not, but that was at a time, when he was no longer supporting Newman. > > > > Every attempt by the individuals present to hold down (choke) the shaft as > it operated was unsuccessful -- the unit's shaft continued to turn and > everyone expressed the fact that a very powerful torque was quite evident. Okay, sounds good ! Maybe they should have tried to lift a weight by winding it up with a thread on the axis and calculate the potential energy lifted up by the weight and compare it to the used energy: 220 Watts divided by time. That would be a quick test, how much mechanical output power can be used.. Or maybe setting up a prony brake.. > > > > In fact, even from a dead stop, the unit's shaft could not be held still > once the 220 watts were applied. [Within the 400-lb machine, 90 lbs of > copper have been utilized.] I see, 45 Kg copper seems not very much to generate OU. Maybe it is sufficient, with all the used neodymium magnets.. > Joseph Newman has stated that he can hold down > the shaft of a 5HP conventional electric motor from a dead stop and prevent > it from rotating once current is applied. > This is interesting, but does prove nothing, cause it depends on how the motor is build... > > > > Joseph Newman welcomes positive and constructive input. In addition, > ...snip... I sincerely hope, that at least one of these 10 "individuals" who have fixed the motor on Monday can post a comment on this list to state their experience, if they think, the mechanical output power is bigger than the 220 Watts DC input. That would be great and would at least apologize for the non-taking place of the public demo. Looking forward to it. Thanks ! Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 06:48:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02229; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:44:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:44:36 -0700 Message-ID: <35FE6E37.73BE176E@harti.com> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:40:07 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , freenrg-l , Jeff & Judy Subject: Re: Newman demo and mechanical output ?? References: <000a01bddffe$2c7208c0$4a59bfa8@powermrkt.inc> <35FD7406.17076694@harti.com> <35FE0D3B.456B@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FbYmt3.0.fY.4zc_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6382 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jeff & Judy wrote: > Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > snips. > > > It did not looked like, as if all the coils together would have had 100 > > Kg of copper weight ?! Am I right ? Anybody knows ? > > I saw two people lift it to help load it into Joe's car. ( 4 people > eventually did the move, but I saw two people initially lift it ). My > guess would be, having looked closely into the thing, that there is not > 100Kg of copper. There was a lot of metal, plus magnets, plus a big > heavy 1" dia. stainless shaft, and the metalic core within the windings. Evan posted, that it was a 200 Kg total weight and just 45 Kg copper. > > > > Also, the windings looked to my eye to be no thinner than 14 gauge wire > - not what I'd expect if there were "miles" of wire wound into it. Please, what diameter in mm is 14 gauge ? I don´t have the US conversion table here right now.. Is it about 1 mm diameter ? > > > > > > Also does anybody know, if this motor is just a 2 pole motor or if it is already > > a 4 pole motor ? > > How is the commutator designed ? > > The commutator contained 24 sections, and it looked no different than > any other motor commutator ( except there were numbers written on the > sections, in ink, ie:"111222333....888" totaling 24 segments ). The > commutator had signs of usage. The brushes did not. According to one of > Joe's people, there are simply two brushes, and two wires going into the > motor, like any other motor. I see, so he still uses the "many breaks" design and just a current reversal after 180 degrees. Seems to be still a 2 pole motor...too bad, he never tried the more powerful 4 pole version I have a GIF on my overunity.com site... > No "fire, blank, short" segments like in > the book. With this segments you don´t get much mechanical power ! This was an older design to enhance electrical output... I have tested this myself in my prototypes and it had less mechanical output ! > No external equipment, just batteries. The brushes, again, > looked plain and ordinary. The only part of this prototype that looked > new, were the shinny end caps, and the threaded rods holding the caps in > place. Doyle's photos show that pretty well. I only received 3 photos from Doyle via the newman list and only 1 pic is of the motor, not showing much.. Did you get more photos of the motor ? Regards, Stefan. > > > > > Regards, > > Jeff C. > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 08:23:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA06780; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:20:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:20:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980915000510.00f43720@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:05:10 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Is Gravity Broken In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980914053543.00fe0e10@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"JZtFR1.0.qf1.3Ne_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6383 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Have I posted this yet? Is Gravity Broken? Back To The Drawing Board For Einstein? By Alan Boyle MSNBC www.msnbc.com >From Stig Agermose 9-11-98 MSNBC -- Is gravity broke? Or is it just the spacecraft? For whatever reason, far-flung probes such as Pioneer 10 and 11 are showing an anomalous slowdown effect. If the observations are correct, that could force a revision of Einstein's theories. THE EFFECT, reported Wednesday by New Scientist magazine, has been showing up for years in analyses of telemetry from Pioneer 10 and 11, which were launched in the early 1970s. "It's just recently that it became unambiguous, and we have no explanation for it," said John Anderson, a planetary scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and a principal investigator on the Pioneer team. Pioneer 10 is about 6.5 billion miles away from the sun, and Pioneer 11 is more than 4.5 billion miles away. Anderson explained that Pioneer 10 should have reached escape velocity but readings from the spacecraft show that the probe is decelerating by a tiny, constant amount. "If this force continues, then eventually it would just stop and fall back toward the sun," he said. "We thought this thing would go off into interstellar space." In fact, the Pioneer probes bear plaques that would serve as a greeting to extraterrestrials who might happen upon them. The "drag" also appears to affect the Ulysses spacecraft, which is in a polar orbit around the sun, at a distance of about 490 million miles, Anderson said. An analysis of data from the Galileo spacecraft, currently swinging around Jupiter, was less conclusive, he said. Anderson and his colleagues have ruled out fuel problems, aerodynamic drag from the interstellar medium and the effects of celestial bodies. Also, the anomaly hasn't been observed in the movement of the planets or other objects of substantial mass in the solar system. Currently, Anderson said, the prime suspect in the mystery is "something in the hardware that we haven't found" something that would systematically skew the data coming from the spacecraft. But the spacecraft's operators haven't been able to find such a fault, even though they've looked for years. If the effect is real rather than a glitch, astronomers and mathematicians would have to tinker with gravitational theories that have held up for decades. "It could have cosmological significance somehow," Anderson said. "It could be distorting space and time somehow." For now, Anderson sees that as a "low-percentage" possibility. He's prepared a formal paper on the anomalies that has been accepted for publication by the Physical Review Letters. And he's looking forward to new deep-space missions, such as the proposed Pluto-Kuiper Express, which will have a better tracking system and thus could provide more clues in the mystery. "I think it will be something that we'll be working on over the next decade," he said. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 09:39:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06129; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:36:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:36:56 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980915013418.00f5fe00@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:34:18 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"S81bp3.0.aV1.eUf_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6384 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: An interesting observable effect, the levitation of pulver's, if verified. Question though. Do we do ourselves justice, do we get closer to discovering what makes things move by conceptualizing any observed levitation as being caused by gravitational "waves". I guess I'm just stuck in the mud. To me a wave is still merely a disturbance in the medium, not the medium. And a wave, or the effect of a wave is measurable and observable. We can feel sound waves, and at the right frequency or pitch they shake buildings and break glass. We can see water waves, and observe the action of a wave front. My question then if there are gravitational waves, what medium are they the disturbance in. And what then is causing that disturbance (the gravitational or even light wave). Surely if there is a disturbance in the medium, something has to be causing it. I cause a water wave by throwing a stone in the water. I cause a sound wave by clapping my hands together. Action and reaction. So what causes a gravitational wave. Or is it a wave at all. The use of a light to levitate would indicate an EM force at work. As regards photons and tachyons. Have we seen them? Or are they too just hypothetical constructs, to explain phenomenon We know what a photo electric cell is, we know what a solar panel is. We know that light is the visible portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. We know that signals transmitted via the electromagnetic spectrum (e.g. radio frequencies) will open garage doors and guide remote controlled vehicles. So why do we need a photon, (a hypothetical sub atomic particle) to explain the photovoltaic effect and solar panels. Are we doing ourselves a service by clinging to these explanations? Or are we foreclosing on other lines of inquiry and perhaps a real explanation and other discoveries. Is this melding of the metaphysical and physical retarding our progress? If physics is then metaphysics or incorporates the metaphysical, then everyone should just close up shop and go home. We can comprehend, work with, measure, manipulate and control the physical - not so with the metaphysical. One reason why I object to mass gravity as a concept. It produces a current force (something which pulls things to its surface) without any action or activity and in defiance of the 2d Law of Thermodynamics - it doesn't run down, it's like the Pink Bunny it just keeps on going and going and going, without any apparent, discernible or measurable action, at least the Pink Bunny has a battery that does eventually run down. This theoretical work of Heim is merely replacing one metaphysical notion with another. And it is safe from exposure also,because there is no way to prove or disprove 4, 5, 6....25 dimensions. And thus science has gone full circle and returned to its pre-Copernican roots, in which all things were explained in terms of the metaphysical (The Hand of God). Perhaps we are witnessing with all of these metaphysical efforts a need to prove, mathematically, the existence of god. Lee Lee At 08:49 AM 9/15/98 +0200, you wrote: > > >Hi Lee and All! > >Let's repeat the wise word's of Dr. Bernhard Haisch: >"Advances are made by answering questions. >Discoveries are made by questioning answers." >I am on the second level now and could lift you up if you want. > >Everybody interested in Buckminster Fuller's work should visit the >website of Robert W. Gray (http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray). Bob is the >guy who started the question about the current and BB effect. Just >remember. Once more thank you for your question. Okay. > >Has anyone ever heard about photophoresis? However, think about gravity. >Gravitational waves are told to be quadrupolar spherical scalar waves. >This means spherical symmetry is essential. Does it rings bells. >No? Let's continue. Where in nature you can find spherical structures ? >One thing we all heard are fullerene, recently discovered!? They are >black because it's nothing other as highly organized carbon structures. >It's possible to introduce heavy metal atoms in the center. What about >elements like Uran? Think about it. > >Now back to photophoresis. Take some fullerene pulver (very expensive) >inside a glass tube and put in a vacuum chamber. Just shake the >pulver. Normally all the pulver should fall back to the tube ground. >Now take a divergent mercury light source and observe what happens in the >lighted area. I claim that most of the pulver would start to levitate. >Why? The highly organized structure of the fullere molecules absorb the >light and start a killing time procedure because of resonance. What >happens is the radiation of gravitational waves I suppose. >According to Mr. Heim photons are situated in fourth (time), fifth and >sixth dimension. Gravitons are only located in the fifth and six >dimensions. It'S timeless in our reality. That's theory like mostly all >things but it could help to understand biological technical phenomenons. > >Best regards, >Berkant > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 11:13:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA13797; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:08:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:08:06 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:16:44 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re:Motor fixed report, any "individuals" want to comment ? Cc: leoguitar@vossnet.de Resent-Message-ID: <"Fioec2.0.SN3.5qg_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6386 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Evan Soule' wrote: > >> Report re Phoenix, Part B -- continued from Part A >> >> > >snip... > >Can the company and CEO be named now or is this still under >non disclosure agreement ? Stefan, Here is Joe's telephone numbers: (602) 977-2813 (Phoenix), or (602) 583-4333 (Phoenix), or (303) 814-3403 (Castle Rock), or 2050 Vineyard Drive Castle Rock, CO 80104 It is his call if he wants to release the information. > >Maybe Joe should have told this part B documentation in front of the audience, >so everyone would have known, why there was no demo. >Then everyone could have understood and would not have been so disapointed.. Actually, what I stated in Part B was disclosed by Joe to the audience in Phoenix. Feedback has been positive, neutral, and negative -- the full spectrum. > > >> >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Evan Soule' >> >> LATE UPDATE: 9/14/98 >> I have now been informed that Joseph Newman has made repairs on and >> demonstrated his Motor in Phoenix to 10 individuals who had arranged to >> remain in Phoenix through Monday. > >Could these 10 "individuals" please be named ? >Do they have email addresses ? >Or do they wish to stay anonymous ? >If yes, please ask them to write an anonymous report for the Newman-List. I believe I know two of them because they stated to me on Saturday that they planned to stay in Phoenix until Monday. I've giving them time to return home (one individuals lives in Florida) and then I plan to send emails to them about what they witnessed. > > > >> The newly-purchased dynamometer is still >> not functioning and the manufacturer is being consulted. Early Monday >> morning, Milton Everett and Joe had the unit drawing only 150 milliamps >> (with 110 volt input) and the rotating shaft of the unit could not be >> choked down. Following a period of testing it was believed that a wire >> came loose. After making additional checks on the unit it was demonstrated >> in the afternoon to the aforementioned 10 individuals. During this test the >> unit drew 2 amps and 110 volts and the current did _not_ go up when >> individuals attempted to choke down the shaft of the unit with their hands. > >By saying: "not going up" > >What do you mean by this: >Does it mean: It does not go up another ONE Ampere. >Or does it mean: It just only GOES UP a few milliAmperes... >If it does not go up at least a few milliamps, then he really has an exciting >new motor... When I heard from Joe on Monday evening, Joe informed me that the current draw did not increase when an attempt was made to choke down the shaft. Evan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 11:13:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA13706; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:07:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:07:57 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:16:39 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Report re Phoenix, Part B Resent-Message-ID: <"3Ub0F3.0.3M3.ypg_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6385 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Please pass this along to Joe for me, I see no point in making the phone >companies richer when we have e-mail. Why on earth after so many years of >waiting could he not have taken your advice and waited just a little while >longer to ensure everything was working fine? Why the rush in the face of >your objections? >Also, if he is the world genius that you claim on this technology why the >problems in not delivering on time? Certainly with all the experience and >knowledge he has, putting one together at this point should be childs play >for him. Why not make plans available, certainly all of us here will credit >him with the invention, and he will go down in history as the creator, why >not help humanity even if it is at a loss to personal gain? The needs of >the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one. > >>I reported to him that I had received several negative (as well as >>positive) comments about him on the internet following the Phoenix >>presentation. Joe's reply: "It is typical that such people never have the >>courage to state such negative comments to my face or call me on the >>telephone and tell them to me directly. Unless they have the courage to do >>this, such comments mean nothing to me." Bill -- You're 'preachin' to the choir. If you wish to pass along your comments directly to him, you are welcome to do so -- you have his telephone numbers. I believe that from Joe's perspective if at first you don't succeed, you dust yourself off and do it again, or again, or again, or as many times as necessary until it is done right. He has done it right in the past -- and others have been witnesses to that (as in the more than 30 scientists who signed Affidavits attesting to the technology & as in the videotaped/documented results of tests run by various engineers over the years.) Joe consistently likes to say that "I work best under pressure" -- thus he sets dates for demonstrations that may be realistic or unrealistic. Chalk it up to his eccentricity. This is NOT how I would do things -- but then, that's just my opinion. As you probably realize by now, my past "heroes" are the Wright Brothers: they were meticulous in their planning and preliminary research (e.g. wind tunnel technology, wing warpage designs, etc.) and, to me, proceeded with proper scientific protocol. However their demonstrations have been known to fail. I refer you to the excellent book, THE PAPER OF WILBUR AND ORVILLE WRIGHT (McFarland), specifically Plate 69 which shows Wilbur Wright lying upon the damaged Flyer after an unsuccessful trial of December 14, 1903. In this case, the difference between Joe and the Wright Brothers is that the Wright Brothers did not invite the world to witness this first attempt at flight. When it failed, they failure would be kept to themselves and then they would "dust themselves off and keep going until they succeeded" ..... as they eventually did. Sincerely, Evan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 14:11:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA10094; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:08:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:08:23 -0700 Message-ID: <001e01bde0ec$f26ee720$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Report re Phoenix, Part B Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:07:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"fxJyt1.0.eT2.7Tj_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6387 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HI Everyone * Arranging a demonstration for an anomalous device (which is BOUND to attract ridicule and contempt) without first having at least one working device IMO does more HARM to the credibility of innovators than anything else I can imagine. Excuses such as being 'eccentric' or 'working better under pressure' just don't cut it. * Evan. Could you tell me the diameter of the shaft on Joe's machine, the shaft's diameter, surface texture, constructional material and RPM? Not only the power of the motor dictates how difficult it is to stop the shaft. There are many other factors such as torque, RPM, shaft diameter and surface texture. It doesn't seem to be very scientific demonstration either. What else was demonstrated other than 'I bet you can't slow this shaft with your hands'? I was really hoping there was going to be fantastic results with this demonstration. I was hoping to hear confirmations from some of this list's members along with some idea of the machines construction. It is early days yet though I suppose.... Jean-Louis Naudin's excellently executed experiments and results seem to prove an anomaly. If Joseph truly has the answer, I wish he would let someone guide him how to demonstrate his findings better. Evan's text seemed rational and well guided (although precious little was actually about the demonstration). Why couldn't he guide Joe? I sincerely hope Joe can be more successful in future. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 14:24:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA14442; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:16:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:16:31 -0700 Message-ID: <002301bde0ee$1618bc40$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Cc: Subject: Re: Re:Motor fixed report, any "individuals" want to comment ? Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:16:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"0lylf1.0.UX3.kaj_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6388 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Evan and All I forget to include in my last post the fact that the current was not going up under load is a good demonstration. Your text included a measurement of 150mA, implying current measuring ability much better that 1A. I would be amazed to see moving coil meters in a demonstration as well. Digital meters cost less for the same accuracy. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 14:31:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21137; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:26:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:26:57 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:35:38 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Report re Phoenix, Part B Resent-Message-ID: <"A3xRu3.0.AA5.Wkj_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6389 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >HI Everyone > >* Evan. Could you tell me the diameter of the shaft on Joe's machine, the >shaft's diameter, surface texture, constructional material and RPM? Not >only the power of the motor dictates how difficult it is to stop the shaft. >There are many other factors such as torque, RPM, shaft diameter and surface >texture. It doesn't seem to be very scientific demonstration either. What >else was demonstrated other than 'I bet you can't slow this shaft with your >hands'? Dear David, So that you can obtain the information "directly from the builder," I invite you to contact Joe directly at: (602) 977-2813 (Phoenix), or (602) 583-4333 (Phoenix), or (303) 814-3403 (Castle Rock), or 2050 Vineyard Drive Castle Rock, CO 80104 Sincerely, Evan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 14:36:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA25592; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:32:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:32:50 -0700 Message-ID: <35FFE476.6AF6@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:16:54 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application References: <3.0.5.32.19980915013418.00f5fe00@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_MXaO3.0.TF6.1qj_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6390 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > > I guess I'm just stuck in the mud. To me a wave is still merely a > disturbance in the medium, not the medium. And a wave, or the effect of a > wave is measurable and observable. We can feel sound waves, and at the > right frequency or pitch they shake buildings and break glass. We can see > water waves, and observe the action of a wave front. > I don't know anything about any of this (which might be an advantage), but putting aside the matter of the "medium" for a moment, would there be any objection to the concept that the "wave" might be longitudinal, and that this longitudinal wave may be in motion towards a relative point in space. In other words, a spherical longitudinal wave front moving inwards towards a neutral centre or point in space..... that we call a planet. If the "medium" were also the substance that forms the atomic material of the planetary body, there may also be a mechanism whereby that movement of the wavefront undergoes a relative transition and change of direction in its movement. The cumulative effect might just then provide a explanation for the macroscopic action of planetary rotation (from a current force), the orbit of the planets about a dominant structure we call the sun (action - reaction), and the reason for what we call the earth's magnetic field. That is, a motion relative to, and against a 'background', which might be considered to be as substantial as any magnetic or electrostatic field, and exhibiting by analogy, as substantial an action as would be expected in the movement of an armature against a magnetic field in an electric motor. It also seems to me that a number of different centres of longitudinal wavefront action could be relative spacially in terms of their phase relationships, and the intensity or field strength of the individual wave fronts. And then you wouldn't need any more than three current dimensions to explain gravity, or planetary motion, ...or a lot of other things. And it avoids all the problems raised by introducing some mysterious intermediary ingredient to justify the strange concept of a Newtonian, mechanical force of "attraction". In other words gravity might then be more rationally seen as a background "push" phenomena. And this "push" might also explain planetary motion in terms of a current force caused by a physical process. But then, as I said, I don't really know anything very much about any of this. It's just my "minds eye's" two penny's worth. Regards, SR -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 15:37:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA19074; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:34:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:34:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199809152234.TAA07725@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:33:42 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re:Motor fixed report, any "individuals" want to comment ? Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"vfl3K1.0.wf4.8kk_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6391 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >What do you mean by this: > >Does it mean: It does not go up another ONE Ampere. > >Or does it mean: It just only GOES UP a few milliAmperes... > >If it does not go up at least a few milliamps, then he really has an exciting > >new motor... > > When I heard from Joe on Monday evening, Joe informed me that the current draw > did not increase when an attempt was made to choke down the shaft. > > > Evan > > It would be interesting to know if the JNaudin's experiment do the same way. --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 15:49:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA21776; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:40:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:40:08 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980915072547.00f85100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:25:47 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application In-Reply-To: <35FFE476.6AF6@mlb.planet.gen.nz> References: <3.0.5.32.19980915013418.00f5fe00@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Dejte3.0.1K5.6pk_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6392 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Interesting response: Don't get me wrong STu I like your response and the thinking involved. half steps to discovery. I somehow don't think we can set aside the medium when considering waves, as I say incessantly (tautologically :) that a wave is merely a disturbance in the medium, and the effect of that wave can be measured. Lacking a medium and a means to disturb it I just can't conceptualize a wave. Perhaps we have another case of a misanalogy, a mis applied concept. Maybe there is an aether, but if so then why can't we feel or measure wavefronts and wave pressure as the waves of light and gravity travel through it, we can do that with sound and water waves. As regards gravity being a background push. Well if it is a push, something has to be pushing it and the only candidate would be the sun. It appears to me, in my simple mind, that since we have evidence that gravity does diminish by the law of inverse squares then the further from the source, the weaker the "push", therefore the closer to the source, the stronger the push. Makes some sense to me, if there is any validity at all to the inverse square law (and I think so, for that is one law that can be readily demonstrated and has been proven many many times, hint: not theory). At least we know it works when we shine a light and when we measure the rate of falling objects on Earth, and when we launch and recover space craft and satellites. Anyway if gravity were a push, and the source were the sun, then Mercury would have more gravity than Mars, Mars more than Earth and Earth more than Venus, etc as each of these planets are closer to the sun. Doesn't that make some sense? The question unanswered though if there is some background push to gravity then whence its source? I've got it. Those decellerating spacecraft, which I just posted. As they approach the outer limits of the solar system, they are slowing because our solar system is encased in a huge spherical shell with gravity pushing in on us from all sides and points. Thus the closer to the shell the stronger the push gravity. That's why Jupiter has so much gravity and Mercury so little. Then that means that the sun which sits at the center of this system actually is a null point and has no gravity, as the forces acting on it are equal in all directions. Humm. Wonder what makes the planets and moon orbit then, and how this push gravity can enfold and envelope a planet from all sides - equally. The mind becomes a wreck, everything is chaos, the center collapses. So what is wrong with a physical process from within the planet, in the same region that produces the EM field (or E Field, lacking heavy metals) causing gravity? Then again there are the mysterious decelerating spacecraft, if the instruments doing the analysis are calibrated and correct. Lee Markland. At 09:16 AM 9/16/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: > >> >> >> I guess I'm just stuck in the mud. To me a wave is still merely a >> disturbance in the medium, not the medium. And a wave, or the effect of a >> wave is measurable and observable. We can feel sound waves, and at the >> right frequency or pitch they shake buildings and break glass. We can see >> water waves, and observe the action of a wave front. >> > >I don't know anything about any of this (which might be an advantage), but >putting aside the matter of the "medium" for a moment, would there be any >objection to the concept that the "wave" might be longitudinal, and that this >longitudinal wave may be in motion towards a relative point in space. > >In other words, a spherical longitudinal wave front moving inwards towards a >neutral centre or point in space..... that we call a planet. > >If the "medium" were also the substance that forms the atomic material of the >planetary body, there may also be a mechanism whereby that movement of the >wavefront undergoes a relative transition and change of direction in its >movement. The cumulative effect might just then provide a explanation for the >macroscopic action of planetary rotation (from a current force), the orbit of >the planets about a dominant structure we call the sun (action - reaction), >and the reason for what we call the earth's magnetic field. > >That is, a motion relative to, and against a 'background', which might be >considered to be as substantial as any magnetic or electrostatic field, and >exhibiting by analogy, as substantial an action as would be expected in the >movement of an armature against a magnetic field in an electric motor. > >It also seems to me that a number of different centres of longitudinal >wavefront action could be relative spacially in terms of their phase >relationships, and the intensity or field strength of the individual wave >fronts. > >And then you wouldn't need any more than three current dimensions to explain >gravity, or planetary motion, ...or a lot of other things. And it avoids all >the problems raised by introducing some mysterious intermediary ingredient to >justify the strange concept of a Newtonian, mechanical force of "attraction". > >In other words gravity might then be more rationally seen as a background >"push" phenomena. And this "push" might also explain planetary motion in >terms of a current force caused by a physical process. > >But then, as I said, I don't really know anything very much about any of >this. It's just my "minds eye's" two penny's worth. > >Regards, > >SR > >-- >============================= >S. N. Rae, >Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. >mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 16:18:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA09980; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:15:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:15:37 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:20:39 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Re: Report re Phoenix, Part A Resent-Message-ID: <"D04EK2.0.sR2.NKl_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6393 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A very damn ghood goj! I am going to package your emails nicely and put them onto the INE website. Can you write a 1/2 to 1 page summary article on that meeting and demo for me, and I will get it into New Energy News. Thanks! PB. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 18:48:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA17039; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:46:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:46:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3600204E.2368@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:32:14 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application References: <3.0.5.32.19980915013418.00f5fe00@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980915072547.00f85100@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jtJF_1.0.2A4.RXn_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6394 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > Interesting response: > Big snip: Just a couple of quick questions... I know I'm not particularly bright, but my questions are genuine, and I really would like to understand this a little better. 1) How can one physical object remotely exert on some other object, a mechanical 'force' (current or otherwise) that we call an "attraction", without introducing some unknowable, mystical, or pre-existent cause. One that can only be described in terms of its 'action'. In other words, how can there even BE such a thing as a gravitational "attraction" .... acting as a force 'at a distance'? 2) In a singular case, if gravity were a 'push' produced by a longitudinal, spherical, wave (in concentric inwards motion), wouldn't the effect diminish inversely with the square of the distance from the central point or focus? (I am not addressing the origins of this spherical wave form) In other words is; "since we have evidence that gravity does diminish by the law of inverse squares then the further from the source, the weaker the "push", therefore the closer to the source, the stronger the push." quite right in the case of a "concentric external push" if the source is NOT the planetary neutral centre? 3) If gravity is not a wave because we can't feel it like waves in water or in air, does that mean that other wave-like characteristics such as an "electromagnetic wave" are similarly invalid? Genuine questions. SR -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 19:53:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA08169; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:48:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:48:57 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980915114557.00f6e2f0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:45:57 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application In-Reply-To: <3600204E.2368@mlb.planet.gen.nz> References: <3.0.5.32.19980915013418.00f5fe00@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980915072547.00f85100@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0TQN53.0.Y_1.NSo_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6395 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: As far as I understand all of your questions I agree with all of your observations, except number 3. I don't think there is anything remotely like an electromagnetic wave, however if that is a word that has been used to describe the concept, then by definition and concensus there are such waves (doesn't mean that the wave actually exists, merely means that consensus has designed to use those words to describe a phenomenon - like mircrowave). As regards other "waves". I think not. I posted that the most ridiculous statement I ever read in a "serious" article was "The wave nature of an atom is necessarily hidden because ACCORDING TO THEORY, the moment a quantum mechanical object is observed, it no longer behaves like a wave." (Discover, p104, Dec 1997) LOL: I wish I could use excuses like that one and get away with it, Maybe this is Joe Newman's out as well. Imaginase (Spanish) an object that obstinately refuses to behave according to theory because like a petulant child it know it is being watched. How can an atom have a "wave nature"? No wonder we are still grounded to Earth, we'll never get off of this planet. Lee At 01:32 PM 9/16/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: > >> >> Interesting response: >> > >Big snip: > >Just a couple of quick questions... > >I know I'm not particularly bright, but my questions are genuine, and I >really would like to understand this a little better. > >1) How can one physical object remotely exert on some other object, a >mechanical 'force' (current or otherwise) that we call an "attraction", >without introducing some unknowable, mystical, or pre-existent cause. One >that can only be described in terms of its 'action'. In other words, how can >there even BE such a thing as a gravitational "attraction" .... acting as a >force 'at a distance'? > >2) In a singular case, if gravity were a 'push' produced by a longitudinal, >spherical, wave (in concentric inwards motion), wouldn't the effect diminish >inversely with the square of the distance from the central point or focus? >(I am not addressing the origins of this spherical wave form) > >In other words is; "since we have evidence that gravity does diminish by the >law of inverse squares then the further from the source, the weaker the >"push", therefore the closer to the source, the stronger the push." quite >right in the case of a "concentric external push" if the source is NOT the >planetary neutral centre? > >3) If gravity is not a wave because we can't feel it like waves in water or >in air, does that mean that other wave-like characteristics such as an >"electromagnetic wave" are similarly invalid? > >Genuine questions. > >SR > >-- >============================= >S. N. Rae, >Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. >mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 19:59:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12754; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:57:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:57:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199809160256.XAA08313@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:55:24 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3600204E.2368@mlb.planet.gen.nz> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"EupQ.0.-63._Zo_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6396 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > 1) How can one physical object remotely exert on some other object, a > mechanical 'force' (current or otherwise) that we call an "attraction", > without introducing some unknowable, mystical, or pre-existent cause. One that > can only be described in terms of its 'action'. In other words, how can there > even BE such a thing as a gravitational "attraction" .... acting as a force > 'at a distance'? > > 2) In a singular case, if gravity were a 'push' produced by a longitudinal, > spherical, wave (in concentric inwards motion), wouldn't the effect diminish > inversely with the square of the distance from the central point or focus? (I > am not addressing the origins of this spherical wave form) > > In other words is; "since we have evidence that gravity does diminish by the > law of inverse squares then the further from the source, the weaker the > "push", therefore the closer to the source, the stronger the push." quite > right in the case of a "concentric external push" if the source is NOT the > planetary neutral centre? > > 3) If gravity is not a wave because we can't feel it like waves in water or in > air, does that mean that other wave-like characteristics such as an > "electromagnetic wave" are similarly invalid? > > Genuine questions. > > SR > > -- That keeps me thinking... 1. The electromagnetic waves as we know diminish by the law of inverse squares. 2. The lower frequencies are perceived as mechanical vibration. 3. Some frequencies are perceived as sound. 4. Another frequencies are perceives as light and heat. 5. Some frequencies can be blocked by metallic shielding. 6. Magnetic force too ! ( Wave ??? ) 7. Gravity is perceived as weight. My questions : 1.Magnetism wouldn't be just a wave of certain high frequency? 2.Magnetic attraction diminish following the law of inverse squares ? 3.Gravity follows the law of inverse squares so why it couldn't be a wave ? 4.What is the highest possible frequency generated/detected in a Lab ? Thanks for any idea. --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 20:35:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA27870; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:31:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:31:00 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980915120853.00f8edf0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:08:53 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qP-SM3.0.8p6.n3p_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6398 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If there is anything of substance to my Mantra. Then gravity can't be a wave, since it is not a disturbance in a medium. There is more to that disturbance in a medium that first sight would lead you to believe. Fill your tub, drop in soap and watch the wave form. clap your hands or pop a firecracker and the noise that hits your ear drum is the result of a wave caused in air. Both are disturbances in a medium. >From this the mind jumps to gravity, atoms, light, magnetism etc as a wave. Incredible. But that is what we were told by authority, so that is what we believe. Lee At 11:55 PM 9/15/98 -3, you wrote: >> >> 1) How can one physical object remotely exert on some other object, a >> mechanical 'force' (current or otherwise) that we call an "attraction", >> without introducing some unknowable, mystical, or pre-existent cause. One that >> can only be described in terms of its 'action'. In other words, how can there >> even BE such a thing as a gravitational "attraction" .... acting as a force >> 'at a distance'? >> >> 2) In a singular case, if gravity were a 'push' produced by a longitudinal, >> spherical, wave (in concentric inwards motion), wouldn't the effect diminish >> inversely with the square of the distance from the central point or focus? (I >> am not addressing the origins of this spherical wave form) >> >> In other words is; "since we have evidence that gravity does diminish by the >> law of inverse squares then the further from the source, the weaker the >> "push", therefore the closer to the source, the stronger the push." quite >> right in the case of a "concentric external push" if the source is NOT the >> planetary neutral centre? >> >> 3) If gravity is not a wave because we can't feel it like waves in water or in >> air, does that mean that other wave-like characteristics such as an >> "electromagnetic wave" are similarly invalid? >> >> Genuine questions. >> >> SR >> >> -- > >That keeps me thinking... > >1. The electromagnetic waves as we know diminish by the law of inverse squares. >2. The lower frequencies are perceived as mechanical vibration. >3. Some frequencies are perceived as sound. >4. Another frequencies are perceives as light and heat. >5. Some frequencies can be blocked by metallic shielding. >6. Magnetic force too ! ( Wave ??? ) >7. Gravity is perceived as weight. > >My questions : > >1.Magnetism wouldn't be just a wave of certain high frequency? > >2.Magnetic attraction diminish following the law of inverse squares ? > >3.Gravity follows the law of inverse squares so why it couldn't be a wave ? > >4.What is the highest possible frequency generated/detected in a Lab ? > >Thanks for any idea. > >--- >Marcelo Puhl >mark@plug-in.com.br > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 20:35:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA27839; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:30:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:30:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980915122710.00f73380@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:27:10 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: What is a wave? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"rDU6-.0.do6.l3p_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6397 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What is a wave? A wave is a disturbance in a medium, but what happens when that medium is disturbed. Energy ripples through the medium until it diminishes out of existence (inverse square law) or is expended. A noise pushes air molecules in front of it, the molecules expand outwards in a sphere, diminishing as they do, eventually they diminish out of existence and you can no longer hear the noise. Drop a rock in water, the rock disturbs the surface of the water and the energy expended expands outwards and diminishes by the inverse square law. The sound of the rock plopping also expands outwards in a sphere, interrupted only by the surface of the water or ground. The blast of an explosion will also disturb the surface of the water and cause a wave, as air is pushed downwards and disturbs the water The wave travels through water, but carries nothing with it. A stick floating on the surface will bob up and down as the wave passes by. Light was conceptualized as a wave because 200 years ago a guy named Young, shown a light through 2 slits in a piece of thick paper and the light expansion was interrupted by the paper, and as it reemerged through the slits it did so by re expanding in a sphere. He looked at the collecting screen and saw two slits of light seperated by a band of no light and theorized that light was a wave, and that the peaks of the waves were self cancelling like a water wave. If he had conducted a one slit experiment (maybe he did, but didn't publish the results) he would have seen the same phenomenon - but only one narrow slit of light. If he had an arc light he could have painted the outside edges and reflected a bat signal off a cloud. He didn't understand the simple fact that the expansion of light was interrupted by that piece of paper and that the light re expands when leaving the slits. He only wanted to prove that Huygens was right. As Huygens and the corpuscularean Newton had an argument. Newton said that light was made up of little corpuscles (just as he theorized matter was - and with matter the corpuscles were the source of gravity and matter as well). Huygens theorized that light was a wave. The experiment of Young was interpreted as proof that Huygens was right. 200 years later the great paradox swallower Einstein came along and said both were right, light was a wave and a particle - hence wavicle. And here we sit going into the 21st Century blindsided by these archaic centuries old theories, theories concocted when science was still called philosophy , while simultaneously acknowledging that light is the visible part of the EMF spectrum. Young never came up with an explanation of how light could be a disturbance in a medium, no one asked and apparently in the last 200 years, very few have even thought to ask. How can you, when august authority, the best minds of all the ages, drill you semester after semester as to what to think, and not how to think. Happened to me too, I've got a Masters as well. Wish I could get a refund though. Lee Markland. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 21:23:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15364; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:20:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:20:40 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <4cc0efb2.35ff3b36@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:14:46 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Motor fixed report, any "individuals" want to comment ? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"LkqKS3.0.zl3.Nop_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6399 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/15/98 6:12:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, harti@harti.com writes: << > The newly-purchased dynamometer is still > not functioning and the manufacturer is being consulted. Early Monday > morning, Milton Everett and Joe had the unit drawing only 150 milliamps > (with 110 volt input) and the rotating shaft of the unit could not be > choked down. Following a period of testing it was believed that a wire > came loose. After making additional checks on the unit it was demonstrated > in the afternoon to the aforementioned 10 individuals. During this test the > unit drew 2 amps and 110 volts and the current did _not_ go up when > individuals attempted to choke down the shaft of the unit with their hands. By saying: "not going up" What do you mean by this: Does it mean: It does not go up another ONE Ampere. Or does it mean: It just only GOES UP a few milliAmperes... If it does not go up at least a few milliamps, then he really has an exciting new motor... >> It is probably worth remembering that the power the unit is drawing from the 110 volt input is 110 x current x cos(theta) where theta is the phase angle between the voltage and current. So just measuring the voltage to the motor and the current drawn gives you no real indication of the power used by the motor. For that you have to use a true wattmeter or measure (or know) the phase angle. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 21:23:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15506; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:21:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:21:11 -0700 Message-ID: <36004446.4E92@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:05:42 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application References: <3.0.5.32.19980915120853.00f8edf0@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jL31F.0.Ao3.sop_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6400 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > If there is anything of substance to my Mantra. Then gravity can't be a > wave, since it is not a disturbance in a medium. > Well....... I'm not too sure about all that..... Did I miss something there?? This is a genuine question.... Do you not think that maybe what you are saying here might contain...... (how shall I put it) .... just a small bit of 'circular thinking ??...:-)) (Ducks for cover..) Which brings me to a much more serious matter at hand. The following IS AS TRUE as I sit here. Someone knocked on my door the other evening just before dinner, and when I opened it, there stood a trio of earnest, fresh faced young men, all wearing white shirts, black trousers and black ties. Each clutched to his bosom a matching black, leather bound book. The more intense looking young man waved his meaningly in my direction, and solemnly announced that he had a message for me from God, ...and did I have the time for him to give it to me. To which I immediately replied, "Ah Ha! Mr Markland sent you, didn't he? He looked somewhat puzzled at this, so quickly remembering the script I added, "But how do you know the message is from God?" This obviously pleased him immensely, because he smiled knowingly, and quick as a wink, slapped the open page with total conviction and announced, "Because it says so, here in the Bible!" For a moment Lee, I was so startled at this confirmation of your expectations, that I was almost struck dumb. I then had to address him quite firmly and said, "Now then young man, you really ARE from Mr Markland, aren't you?" "And I know...., this is some kind of TEST isn't it?" Three very confused young men eventually departed my door, promising they would give you my warmest regards, on the understanding that I in return would read my message from God in 'Exodus', later that evening. Regards, SR -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 22:23:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA04752; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:22:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:22:03 -0700 Message-ID: <032f01bde131$80eb6700$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:07:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"EwcWG.0.9A1.xhq_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6401 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >and the reason for what we call the earth's magnetic field. Well a field is not like a wave is it? Things are different between them. You can focus waves, sound, light, etc, but fields do not work like that do they? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 22:23:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA04777; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:22:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:22:05 -0700 Message-ID: <033101bde131$829fcdc0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:13:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"Vmb6N2.0.UA1.yhq_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6402 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I somehow don't think we can set aside the medium when considering waves, >as I say incessantly (tautologically :) that a wave is merely a disturbance >in the medium, and the effect of that wave can be measured. Lacking a >medium and a means to disturb it I just can't conceptualize a wave. Perhaps >we have another case of a misanalogy, a mis applied concept. But a wave is not like a field is it? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 22:58:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15171; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:57:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:57:14 -0700 Message-ID: <00f901bde136$a0ff2040$a8cdefd1@thomas> From: "Thomas Spellman" To: Subject: Re: Gravitational anomaly Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:55:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"bWLGp.0.zi3.vCr_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6403 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 1998 7:20 PM Subject: Re: Gravitational anomaly >Notice the comment that G (Gravity is hard to measure) of course its >measurement has no basis in reality and is derived from assumptions about >mass which are mathematically derived backwards from measuring orbits. > >Circular reasoning, cause from effect (superstition) and metaphysical (the >attractive qualities of little corpuscles of matter - Newton). > >Isn't it time to give it up and start looking at gravity as a current force >caused by a physical process? What is the physical process? movement? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 23:01:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15955; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:59:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:59:06 -0700 Message-ID: <039101bde136$ad913460$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: What is a wave? Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:55:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"O4jH53.0.8v3.fEr_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6404 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >The wave travels through water, but carries nothing with it. A stick >floating on the surface will bob up and down as the wave passes by. I have a surfboard however that rides the waves! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 15 23:39:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA25028; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:38:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:38:12 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Motor fixed report, any "individuals" want to comment ? Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:38:10 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <36005c55.5472093@mail-hub> References: <4cc0efb2.35ff3b36@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <4cc0efb2.35ff3b36@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"G7vKh3.0.-66.Jpr_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6405 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:14:46 EDT, Keasy@aol.com wrote: [snip] >It is probably worth remembering that the power the unit is drawing from the >110 volt input is 110 x current x cos(theta) where theta is the phase angle >between the voltage and current. So just measuring the voltage to the motor >and the current drawn gives you no real indication of the power used by the >motor. For that you have to use a true wattmeter or measure (or know) the >phase angle. > Ken Keasy@aol.com True, but won't ignoring the phase angle lead to an under estimation of the motor efficiency? IOW, if it's OU when ignoring the phase angle, then in reality it is even more OU. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 00:12:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA32701; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:11:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:11:12 -0700 Message-ID: <35FF649C.4F4B544E@datacomm.ch> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:11:24 +0200 From: Felix Meyer Reply-To: hb9abx@datacomm.ch Organization: hb9abx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Gravitational Converte - VISIT References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gdLsS2.0.s-7.GIs_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6407 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: DEMONSTRATION OF GRAVITATIONAL CONVERTER ---------------------------------------- Last week (Sept. 10.-11.) I visited the inventor of the gravitational converter in Germany. The description, photographs and plans can be found under http://www.overunity.com/gb/ I could see the functional machine (gb01) with over 2 meters height and received a funcional demonstration, nice explanation and a technical folder from the inventor. After lifting manually the gravitator this one moves down by itself, pushing up the remanence fluid and lifting up the accumulator. By seeing this, one get the impression, that the center of mass is moving up and that energy is gained. However, I measured the center of mass before and after this movement and the result was clearly that the center of mass is moving downwards. According to several animations found on the overunity page and according to the technical documentation of the inventor the machine should flip automatically at he end of the downward moving, and should repeat this process in a permanent manner to produce energy. The inventor told me that he never obtained this automatic flipping so far, but he is convinced that it will work. He spent already a lot of money during the last 7 years without any better result - so far. Felix Meyer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 00:12:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA32650; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:11:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:11:01 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <039101bde136$ad913460$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:08:38 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: What is a wave? Resent-Message-ID: <"YWQar.0.4-7.5Is_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6406 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill - >>The wave travels through water, but carries nothing with it. A stick >>floating on the surface will bob up and down as the wave passes by. > > >I have a surfboard however that rides the waves! Me too. And some of the most outrageous waves I've ridden have had a phase wave component - like the Wedge. In waikiki there's a seawall where boogieboarders sometimes catch a phase wave running parallel to the wall - when it's slow enough to do so. On some days I suspect that this wave approaches sound velocity, as it can sweep from one side of your vision to the other in less than a second, and it makes a very weird, very loud sound I suspect is a sonic compression wave in the air from the fast moving wave front. A live shot of the wall where this happens can be seen at: http://www.eng.hawaii.edu/~csp/Trafficam/waikiki.html Check it during daylight hours Hawaii time - 3 hours earlier than PST. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 01:51:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA21404; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:45:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:45:46 -0700 Message-ID: <008e01bde14e$601799a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: EM wave pressure, Joes Demo Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:45:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Q2h1C3.0.HE5.vgt_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6408 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee and All -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland >Maybe there is an aether, but if so then why can't we feel or measure >wavefronts and wave pressure as the waves of light and gravity travel >through it, we can do that with sound and water waves. You can (could) buy little evacuated bulbs with rotors that turn in sunlight. Anybody else seen them? They used to sell them at sea-side shops when I was a kid. I've seen a video of some US scientists shooting a metal disk upwards using a laser (this may have been due to super-heating the underside air though...) I've also seen the average sunlight pressure on Earth written somewhere........I'll try to find it. Evan offered that I should telephone Joe to ask the questions. What would be a good (UK) time to call him? (I've since read there was a 1" stainless steel shaft on his motor) I would prefer to have data from a third party as well though. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 06:38:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA06407; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:36:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:36:27 -0700 Message-ID: <35FFA10A.7C0F684A@harti.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:29:14 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Motor fixed report, any "individuals" want to comment ? References: <4cc0efb2.35ff3b36@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"479Aq1.0.zZ1.Qxx_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6409 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keasy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/15/98 6:12:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, harti@harti.com > writes: > > << > > The newly-purchased dynamometer is still > > not functioning and the manufacturer is being consulted. Early Monday > > morning, Milton Everett and Joe had the unit drawing only 150 milliamps > > (with 110 volt input) and the rotating shaft of the unit could not be > > choked down. Following a period of testing it was believed that a wire > > came loose. After making additional checks on the unit it was demonstrated > > in the afternoon to the aforementioned 10 individuals. During this test the > > unit drew 2 amps and 110 volts and the current did _not_ go up when > > individuals attempted to choke down the shaft of the unit with their hands. > > By saying: "not going up" > > What do you mean by this: > Does it mean: It does not go up another ONE Ampere. > Or does it mean: It just only GOES UP a few milliAmperes... > If it does not go up at least a few milliamps, then he really has an exciting > new motor... > >> > > It is probably worth remembering that the power the unit is drawing from the > 110 volt input is 110 x current x cos(theta) where theta is the phase angle > between the voltage and current. So just measuring the voltage to the motor > and the current drawn gives you no real indication of the power used by the > motor. For that you have to use a true wattmeter or measure (or know) the > phase angle. > Ken Keasy@aol.com > Hi, a Newman machine is a DC motor ! So you have a DC supply voltage and the current is just going up in an exponential waveform like 1-e^-t/tau (additional to all the RF bursts on the wire). So, if you just want to look at the input power you don´t need cos phi , but just have to integrate all the current input pulses over time by using the constant supply voltage. I hope this helps to understand it a bit better. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 06:39:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA06608; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:36:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:36:38 -0700 Message-ID: <35FFBD1B.CE2589A9@harti.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:28:59 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hb9abx@datacomm.ch, freenrg-l , newman-list , Jean Louis Naudin , dave dameron , "HLafonte@aol.com" , "W.D. Bauer" , Dieter Bauer Subject: Re: Gravitational Converter - VISIT and proof ?! References: <35FF649C.4F4B544E@datacomm.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TzopP1.0.0d1.bxx_r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6410 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I had suggested Felix Meyer should visit the inventor, cause he had tried previously to help to calculate the integral gear device used in this machine. Now I am quite disappointed, that he has posted this message. For several reasons. After his visit at the inventor we had many email exchanges, where we discussed , what he and Dieter Bauer and me had seen. It became more and more clear to me, that he never did fully understand or did not want to understand the principle behind the machine and always asked for things which were already clear for us a few emails ago... So it seems, he is not able to see the genius principle behind the machine and I regret, that I had proposed him to the inventor to let him see the machine in its current "non-setup-right" -"unfixed" state. Also Dieter Bauer, who has visited the machine with me together now rethinks his article about it and is waiting, that the machine will be fixed again hopefully in around 2 weeks from now. See my coments to Felix Meyer´s report below , please: Felix Meyer wrote: > DEMONSTRATION OF GRAVITATIONAL CONVERTER > ---------------------------------------- > > Last week (Sept. 10.-11.) I visited the inventor of > the gravitational converter in Germany. > The description, photographs and plans can be found under > > http://www.overunity.com/gb/ > > I could see the functional machine (gb01) with over > 2 meters height and received a funcional demonstration, > nice explanation and a technical folder from the inventor. > > After lifting manually the gravitator this one moves down > by itself, pushing up the remanence fluid and lifting up > the accumulator. > By seeing this, one get the impression, that the center of > mass is moving up and that energy is gained. That is indeed the case, if you look at ALL the masses and the additional masses are used at the akkomodator. Then the center of mass is going up. See below ! > > However, I measured the center of mass before and after > this movement and the result was clearly that the center > of mass is moving downwards. > He only measured it , when the additional weights were not present at the akkomodators, so then it is clear, that the center of mass shifts down... He just measured it with the wrong setup. It is the same as the NBS did with the Newman machine. They used a wrong setup, cause they did not understand the machine ! > According to several animations found on the overunity page > and according to the technical documentation of the inventor > the machine should flip automatically at he end of the downward > moving, and should repeat this process in a permanent manner > to produce energy. > This is the case, due to my calculations and what the inventor and one other guy has told me he has seen. > > > > The inventor told me that he never obtained this automatic > flipping so far, but he is convinced that it will work. > He spent already a lot of money during the last 7 years > without any better result - so far. > This statement is probably not true, cause always when I speak with the inventor he tells me, that it did already run for 4 months .... Here is now the proof, that the demo machine works: In the demo model we have different dimensions, than what the blueprints say in the web page. there the gb09.gif is already an enhanced version with the same principle. I present now here the correct dimensions of the demo model with the calculation, which shows, that the system can work: These are the parameters we have at the demo machine: generator= 98,9 Liter volume 30 cm diameter, 140 cm height kompensator(swimmer)= 60 Liter volume made out of styrodor total weight of generator + swimmer + rods + gears + iron threads = 30 Kg total weight of akkomodators = 30 Kg total weight of akkomodators when water is filled into the generator: 44 Kg ( 2 x 7 Kg iron plates have been added to the akkomodators) the akkomodators are a balance weight, which balance out all the other weights like in an elevator. So if there is no water inside the generator cylinder, the weights are compensated and the whole bodies remain stable and do not move, also when you turn them for e.g. 45 degrees. Then the bodies don´t move ! water inside generator= 38.12 Liters= 38.12 Kg consists of: Ringfluid Vring = 24 Kg plus Remanenzfluid Vrem = 14,12 Kg Movement of the bodies: Generator goes down for: 0.4 Meter, swimmerbody goes down inside generator: 0.2 Meter. total weight of akkomodators incl. additional weights go up (44 Kg): 0.4 Meter. Now here is the proof, that there is an anomaly in the energy balance of the system and that the center of mass goes up: We have as a source energy: 38 Kg Water going down in the earth gravity field 0.4 meters This represents our source energy of: 38 Kg x 0.4 Meters= 15,2 mKg Now the kompensator (swimmer body) must be pulled down for 0.2 Meters inside the water which needs an energy of: 60 Kg x 0.2 Meters = 12 mKg Now we have left an energy of: 15,2 mKg - 12 mKg = 3.2 mkG Okay, we have now 3.2 mKg energy left to pull up additional weights up. 3.2 mkg represents 8 Kg of weight to be pulled up 0.4 Meters (the akkomodators go up 0.4 meters) : 3.2 mKg / 0.4 meters= 8 Kg So, now the inventor tried to see, how much Kg he can add to the akkomodators and did put a scale under the buttom yoke (where the gear is located). The scale showed 20 Kg of weight at he location where the generator has almost gone down (about 35 cm of distance). Now he thought, I need still some loss for the friction and that it will still move, so he decided to put there 2 x 7 Kg= 14 Kg additional weight onto the akkomodators. (not 20 Kg) And now here is the anomaly: The whole generator and the swimmer inside is still going down, although the theory predicts, just maximum 8 Kg can be added ! If you put there the used 14 Kg, the akkomodators should pull the generator up ! But it is still going down on itsself ! This is the anonmaly ! Now as this happens also the center of mass shifts upwards over the shaft, so that with a little push by hand the whole system can rotate 180 degrees and then the process starts itsself again and can rotate on and on... a selfrunner... Here now the calculation for the shifting of the center of mass. (see gb01.mpg) We have: Ringfluid Vring = 24 Kg Remanenzfluid Vrem = 14,12 Kg Difference of height: for Vring = 0,4 m for Vrem = 1,20 m - 0,40 m = 0,8 m Energydifference (= potential energy won) Vrem x 0,8 m - Vring x 0,4 m = = 11,296 mKg - 9,6 mKg = 1,696 mKg ========== Additionally we have lifted the additional weight of 14 Kg at the akkomodator, so we have: Akkomodator energy won: 14 kg x 0.4 m = 5,6 mKg Now subtracting from this the 3.2 mkg the normal source energy still has available: 5.6 - 3.2= 2.4 mKg Gain ! Now 1,696 mKg + 2.4 mKg = 4.096 mKg gain ! This means the center of mass has shifted upwards over the shaft and the unit can turn and act as a selfrunner ! Regards, Stefan. P.S.: This ia also my last message posted about this device, before seeing a running prototype. I am now waiting until it is fixed again. Then I will report again, but not earlier.. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 09:43:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17763; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35FFE127.6C627F0F@harti.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:02:47 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l Subject: Re: Gravitational Converter - VISIT and proof ?! References: <35FF649C.4F4B544E@datacomm.ch> <35FFBD1B.CE2589A9@harti.com> <35FFD1B6.50E57141@datacomm.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MZ6UU1.0.RL4.Qc-_r"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6411 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > > > > The inventor told me that he never obtained this automatic > > > flipping so far, but he is convinced that it will work. > > > > > He spent already a lot of money during the last 7 years > > > without any better result - so far. > > > > > > > This statement is probably not true, cause always when I speak with the > > inventor > > he tells me, that it did already run for 4 months .... > > > > This is what inventor told to me: > > Yes, it was running in the way as I have seen, selflifting of > the Akkomodator while the generator is sliding down. > But he sayed to me that it never was doing a complete cycle > (= flipping) by itself. I bet, you have understood that wrong or did not get the right meaning out of his words. I will just call the inventor and ask him, what he told you. > > > > ... snip > > > > > Now as this happens also the center of mass shifts upwards over the > > shaft, so that with a little push by hand the whole system can rotate > > 180 degrees and then the process starts itsself again and can rotate on > > and on... a selfrunner... > > > > We all wait for this to happen. Me too. Stefan. > > > > > === IT WOULD BE GREAT ! === > > Felix > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 09:54:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19601; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35FFD1B6.50E57141@datacomm.ch> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:56:55 +0200 From: Felix Meyer Reply-To: hb9abx@datacomm.ch Organization: hb9abx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: leoguitar@vossnet.de CC: freenrg-l , newman-list , Jean Louis Naudin , dave dameron , "HLafonte@aol.com" , "W.D. Bauer" , Dieter Bauer Subject: Re: Gravitational Converter - VISIT and proof ?! References: <35FF649C.4F4B544E@datacomm.ch> <35FFBD1B.CE2589A9@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VDQxL.0.1o4.Jo-_r"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6412 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Hi, > > I had suggested Felix Meyer should visit the inventor, > cause he had tried previously to help to calculate > the integral gear device used in this machine. > > Now I am quite disappointed, that he has posted this message. .. snip > > > > The inventor told me that he never obtained this automatic > > flipping so far, but he is convinced that it will work. > > > He spent already a lot of money during the last 7 years > > without any better result - so far. > > > > This statement is probably not true, cause always when I speak with the > inventor > he tells me, that it did already run for 4 months .... > This is what inventor told to me: Yes, it was running in the way as I have seen, selflifting of the Akkomodator while the generator is sliding down. But he sayed to me that it never was doing a complete cycle (= flipping) by itself. > Here is now the proof, that the demo machine works: > > In the demo model we have different dimensions, than what the blueprints > say in the web page. > there the gb09.gif is already an enhanced version with the same > principle. > ... snip > > Now as this happens also the center of mass shifts upwards over the > shaft, so that with a little push by hand the whole system can rotate > 180 degrees and then the process starts itsself again and can rotate on > and on... a selfrunner... > We all wait for this to happen. === IT WOULD BE GREAT ! === Felix From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 10:41:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA02015; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:30:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:30:59 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:49:25 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: EM wave pressure, Joes Demo Resent-Message-ID: <"eO6_b3.0.aU.AN__r"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6413 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi Lee and All > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >>Maybe there is an aether, but if so then why can't we feel or measure >>wavefronts and wave pressure as the waves of light and gravity travel >>through it, we can do that with sound and water waves. > > >You can (could) buy little evacuated bulbs with rotors that turn in >sunlight. Anybody else seen them? They used to sell them at sea-side shops >when I was a kid. I've seen a video of some US scientists shooting a >metal disk upwards using a laser (this may have been due to super-heating >the underside air though...) I've also seen the average sunlight pressure >on Earth written somewhere........I'll try to find it. > > >Evan offered that I should telephone Joe to ask the questions. What would >be a good (UK) time to call him? (I've since read there was a 1" stainless >steel shaft on his motor) I would prefer to have data from a third party as >well though. > >Best regards > >David Callaghan Dear David, Usually in the evenings (Phoenix time, c. 9:30pm). You may wish to check with your long distance carrier to verify the time differences. You may also wish to contact engineer Milton Everett (602) 546-4031 who has been assisting Joe in Phoenix. [Milton is retired from the Mississippi Department of Energy] Evan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 10:51:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01373; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809161611.JAA07985@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: EM wave pressure, Joes Demo Resent-Message-ID: <"DWr053.0.DL.xb__r"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6414 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:45 AM 9/16/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee and All > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >>Maybe there is an aether, but if so then why can't we feel or measure >>wavefronts and wave pressure as the waves of light and gravity travel >>through it, we can do that with sound and water waves. > > >You can (could) buy little evacuated bulbs with rotors that turn in >sunlight. Anybody else seen them? They used to sell them at sea-side shops >when I was a kid. I've seen a video of some US scientists shooting a >metal disk upwards using a laser (this may have been due to super-heating >the underside air though...) I've also seen the average sunlight pressure >on Earth written somewhere........I'll try to find it. > I think the evacuated bulbs with rotating vanes operate on a thermal kinetic energy vs, straight radiation pressure. The dark surfaces move away, while the silvered surfaces move toward the light. Still have one, bought it from Edmund scientific a few years ago. Am sure though that radiation pressure has been measured using some lasers. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 11:20:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07696; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4DAE07365E6AD011BFFA00805FEA25A779017D@FAXSERVER> From: Edward Dinache To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: EM wave pressure, Joes Demo Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:10:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Resent-Message-ID: <"D_3RW3.0.8u1.w100s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6415 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I've seen this in the Edmund Scientific catalog, they can still be purchased today. I believe they're called Radiometers-Solar Engines. Here's a link where you can buy it online. http://www.efstonscience.com/edmund.html Hope this helps... Ed. -----Original Message----- From: dave dameron [mailto:ddameron@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 9:11 AM To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EM wave pressure, Joes Demo At 09:45 AM 9/16/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee and All > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >>Maybe there is an aether, but if so then why can't we feel or measure >>wavefronts and wave pressure as the waves of light and gravity travel >>through it, we can do that with sound and water waves. > > >You can (could) buy little evacuated bulbs with rotors that turn in >sunlight. Anybody else seen them? They used to sell them at sea-side shops >when I was a kid. I've seen a video of some US scientists shooting a >metal disk upwards using a laser (this may have been due to super-heating >the underside air though...) I've also seen the average sunlight pressure >on Earth written somewhere........I'll try to find it. > I think the evacuated bulbs with rotating vanes operate on a thermal kinetic energy vs, straight radiation pressure. The dark surfaces move away, while the silvered surfaces move toward the light. Still have one, bought it from Edmund scientific a few years ago. Am sure though that radiation pressure has been measured using some lasers. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 11:46:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14129; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:41:40 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980916223610.20b740be@pop3.friend.ly.net> X-Sender: geet@pop3.friend.ly.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Bob Colvin Subject: GEET Patent Resent-Message-ID: <"k5gmL1.0.dS3.kO00s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6416 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: GEET (Global Environmental Energy Technology) has just been issued a patent on Paul Pantone's, GEET Fuel Processor. Go to their webpage for a direct link to it. http://www.friend.ly.net/GEET Bob + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Bob Colvin - GEET of MD/WI + + + + http://www.Friend.ly.Net/GEET + + + + geet@friend.ly.net + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 13:23:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06603; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:17:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:17:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980916035925.00f7fba0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 03:59:25 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: What is a wave? In-Reply-To: <039101bde136$ad913460$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0gYwL1.0.Kc1.eo10s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6418 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:55 AM 9/16/98 -0400, you wrote: >>The wave travels through water, but carries nothing with it. A stick >>floating on the surface will bob up and down as the wave passes by. > > >I have a surfboard however that rides the waves! Ah, but only at the front where the water piles up on the sloping shelf, elsewise you just sit there and bob as the waves pass you by. Don't surf but lived in Santa Cruz and watched you guys, bob up and down, watch you catch the waves, move too far out and there is no wave to catch. Thus you are riding the wave front. Lee > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 13:23:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06636; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980916035720.00f7d9f0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 03:57:20 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Gravitational anomaly In-Reply-To: <00f901bde136$a0ff2040$a8cdefd1@thomas> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"C9q-N2.0.Td1.zo10s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6419 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:55 PM 9/15/98 -0700, you wrote: > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: Sunday, September 13, 1998 7:20 PM >Subject: Re: Gravitational anomaly > >>Notice the comment that G (Gravity is hard to measure) of course its >>measurement has no basis in reality and is derived from assumptions about >>mass which are mathematically derived backwards from measuring orbits. >> >>Circular reasoning, cause from effect (superstition) and metaphysical (the >>attractive qualities of little corpuscles of matter - Newton). >> >>Isn't it time to give it up and start looking at gravity as a current force >>caused by a physical process? > > >What is the physical process? movement? Bites me. What physical process is the source of the Earth's EM field, my original question. Perhaps the dynamic engine which lies under the Earth's lithosphere and which, according to seismological studies is moving, produces both the EM field and the Gravitational field (EMG). And maybe as the Earth cools both of these fields diminish. Just maybe's. Anything but metaphysics. Perhaps we should do some deep, deep, drilling - then again that might not be a wise idea. Lee > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 13:24:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06655; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980916033140.00f81640@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 03:31:40 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application In-Reply-To: <032f01bde131$80eb6700$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5XYxa.0.od1.3p10s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6420 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:07 AM 9/16/98 -0400, you wrote: >>and the reason for what we call the earth's magnetic field. > >Well a field is not like a wave is it? Things are different between them. >You can focus waves, sound, light, etc, but fields do not work like that do >they? Absolutely correct. How about this for a definition. A "field" is that area encompassed within an expanding sphere. A sphere that expands outwards from its source, diminishing in strength as it expands IAW ISL, eventually it expands virtually out of existence and is no longer recordable, perceptible or has any perceptible effect on anything. Such as the expanding gravitational field of Mars which at the surface of the Earth is zilch Using solely the ISL: Mars for instance is 48.9375 million miles from Earth. It's gravitational pull is suppose to be .533 that of Earth or 17.1626 ft per second squared. Mars has a radii of 2120.9375 miles, so that as we move from the surface of Mars outwards every time we double the distance the gravitational pull diminishes by the square of that distance. Thus at 4140.9375 miles from the center of Mars the gravitational pull will be 4.290625 ft per second squared. Mars is 48937500 million miles from Earth that equates to 229820.9568535 Martian radii(48937500/2120.9375) now square that 229821 (rounded radii) and you get 52817692041 divide that into 17.1626 and you get 3.249403625338e-010 for a gravitational acceleration at the surface of the Earth. This is so small that my calculator can't display it. Anyone care to check the math? Lee Markland From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 13:24:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06578; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980916033556.00f72100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 03:35:56 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application In-Reply-To: <033101bde131$829fcdc0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"PD3eM1.0.Dc1.co10s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6417 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:13 AM 9/16/98 -0400, you wrote: >>I somehow don't think we can set aside the medium when considering waves, >>as I say incessantly (tautologically :) that a wave is merely a disturbance >>in the medium, and the effect of that wave can be measured. Lacking a >>medium and a means to disturb it I just can't conceptualize a wave. Perhaps >>we have another case of a misanalogy, a mis applied concept. > > >But a wave is not like a field is it? I don't think so, and I don't think I said that. Lee > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 13:26:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06668; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917015258.00f66d20@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 01:52:58 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application In-Reply-To: <36004446.4E92@mlb.planet.gen.nz> References: <3.0.5.32.19980915120853.00f8edf0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"VyRfk1.0.5e1.Ap10s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6421 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: LOL Stu Rae, ROFL Great story, probably true,, Pssst, big secret it's Ms Markland, not Mr, as my credibility gap widens more. What? A damn woman, no wonder. And no I don't see where the mantra below is circular reasoning, with just the most casual of ontological circumspection it becomes readily apparent that the statement doesn't even border on such. Here is a definition of circularity: "Arguing by reasoning in a circle" First you must have a closed relationship, so that the subject is dependent upon the object and the object is dependent by the subject. Gravity is caused by mass (particles-matter), mass (particles-matter) are created by gravity. Another way to put it is self creation. Without gravity there would be no mass and without mass there would be no gravity. My Mantra does not fit within that category. It simply states that a wave is a disturbance in a medium, in the absence of a medium or a disturbance of that medium there is no wave. How can an object (a particle, an atom, have a wave nature?) What is a particle? Theoretically it is the matter defined or broken down to it's smallest constituency. But it is still matter, except perhaps as regards the hypothetical neutrino - which despite its lack of mass (meaning weight and substance) can still theoretical trip a device in a vat of cleaning fluid and make a light flash. Conceptualizing stuff like light as a wave, is tantamount to affixing conceptual blinders to our scientific vision, it limits what we can see and how we interpret what we do see. Science admits that light is part of the EM spectrum, but then goes on to talk about it as a wavicle. Does it do the same to other frequencies? (well yes, we do have a word "microwave" - another misnomer, another word which by its employ affects the way we conceptualize what is going on in reality). I admit to a level of ignorance in frequencies. But I do know this the higher the frequency the shorter the antenna, the lower the frequency the longer the antenna. I also know that very high frequencies don't penetrate matter, but bounce off of it and are returned to its source - Radar. And extremely low frequencies (ELF) can penetrate even the Earth and its oceans. At least the Navy thinks so, because they use them to communicate with submarines. The lowest frequency light emerging from the prism is blue light. Why do I say that? Because when one goes scuba diving, below 30' or so, one can no longer see the color red, red falls off, is filtered out by the water at that distance. Go back to the above example about frequencies. A higher frequency bounces off an object, a lower frequency penetrates an object. The lower the frequency the more penetration capability it has (of course density of structure plays a role here as lead and gold will shield (block) frequencies, and some still militarily classifed composites will permit even high frequencies to pass through, although they contribute to structural weakness. That red falls off or is filtered out within the first 30' of the surface of water, seems to me to be proof that red is a higher frequency of the EM spectrum and blue it's shorter frequency. This observation also turns redshift theory bass ackwards. Because empirical science has the blue and red ends of the spectrum reverse. When the stargazers measure blue, they think they are moving toward the star. When they see red they think they are moving away from the star. In fact, a shift to blue shows that we are moving away from the star and a shift to red shows we are moving toward the star. (Studies of color have shown that Red is a poor color for Emergency Vehicles, as it can't be seen at night - it falls off, the best color is low frequency blue, mixed with high frequency yellow - producing a nauseous chartreuse (lime green). To whom do we owe the majority of our technological advances and goodies? To the "theorists" scribbling on chalk boards reciting their mantras of Received Wisdom, laws and divine theories? Or to barely educated tinkerers with mere curiousity and ideas that were unhampered by "conventional physics" and Received Wisdom. Bell, Edison, the Wright Brothers would have been hollered down if "conventional wisdom" had the stranglehold it enjoys today on the thoughts and aspirations of others. "Everyone knew", the consensus said, that flight was impossible, but the Brothers Wright were ignorant or impervious to the consensus, and still five years after their flight, their achievement was debunked and ridiculed in the likes of the New York Times. One of my favorite books is by Eric J. Lerner, a disciple of Hannes Alfven, the plasmologist, now saying that doesn't make me a "believer" or worshipper of Alfven or Lerner, for there are points of contention I have with both, that is of that which I can understand of the theories. But Lerner makes a statement quite true, that except in the area of cellular biology, there has been no significant advance, no real new discovery of knowledge since the 1960's, that is because cellular biology has not yet become rigid with the infusion of orthodoxy. In other words it is too new a field to become stultified. All other modern technological marvels are merely improvements, refinements of stuff already understood and known. ( Is the core of the Earth really plasma? The Law of the centrifuge - originally question - seems to lead to that conclusion, as the heavy metals would be now congregated towards the outside of this sphere we call Earth).Could the source of gravity be plasma? This statement I especially like (page 97). According to Nicholas*, the human mind though finite in its understanding, is infinite in its capacity for understanding and in it's desire for truth. "The eye can never have too much seeing, so the mind is never satisified with SUFFICENT TRUTH." In this sense all learning is ignorance - not because it is false, but because it will never arrive at the final truth. There can be NO THEORY OF EVERYTHING." *German born (1401) bishop, Nicolas of Cusa, for the first time in a thousand years turned the finite universe of Augustine on its ears. How sad that 500 years later, Einstein and his disciples (like Hawkings, et al) have thrust that finite universe back around the neck of man like a slave collar or a yoke. No sooner does the inquiring mind of man start to make some progress and ask some real questions, religion and religiosity rears its head, blind belief takes over - knowing (omnescience - laws) are ordained. Newton invoked the hand of god, by embuing mass with gravity (gravitas), circular and metaphysical, Galileo did the same thing when he declare inertia (the hand of god) was responsible for the rotation of the Earth. And Einstein let loose a flood of metaphysics that even the Pope can embrace as both he and the astronomers see in the cosmos the hand of god in their holy big bang. And now some earstwhile "theorists" believe that by consulting the Torah (Gammatria) they can mathematically prove the existence of their god. It seems as though there is some alien intelligence interfering in the development of man and our knowledge and the tool that is used is our capacity for belief and our worship of authority. One step forward, two steps back or is it two steps forward, one step back. Maybe there is some "malevolent intelligence" in the universe, a god or space aliens, screwing with our minds and science. Whether there is or not this silly old, ignorant, non metaphysical, heretical, practical woman says "she isn't playing that game". What you guys choose to do is up to you. Lee Markland Thanks though for the confirmation, must have non plussed the Mormon's some. Lee. At 04:05 PM 9/16/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: > >> >> If there is anything of substance to my Mantra. Then gravity can't be a >> wave, since it is not a disturbance in a medium. >> > >Well....... I'm not too sure about all that..... Did I miss something there?? > >This is a genuine question.... Do you not think that maybe what you are >saying here might contain...... (how shall I put it) .... just a small bit of >'circular thinking ??...:-)) (Ducks for cover..) > >Which brings me to a much more serious matter at hand. >The following IS AS TRUE as I sit here. > >Someone knocked on my door the other evening just before dinner, and when I >opened it, there stood a trio of earnest, fresh faced young men, all wearing >white shirts, black trousers and black ties. Each clutched to his bosom a >matching black, leather bound book. > >The more intense looking young man waved his meaningly in my direction, and >solemnly announced that he had a message for me from God, ...and did I have >the time for him to give it to me. > >To which I immediately replied, "Ah Ha! Mr Markland sent you, didn't he? > >He looked somewhat puzzled at this, so quickly remembering the script I >added, "But how do you know the message is from God?" > >This obviously pleased him immensely, because he smiled knowingly, and quick >as a wink, slapped the open page with total conviction and announced, >"Because it says so, here in the Bible!" > >For a moment Lee, I was so startled at this confirmation of your >expectations, that I was almost struck dumb. > >I then had to address him quite firmly and said, "Now then young man, you >really ARE from Mr Markland, aren't you?" "And I know...., this is some kind >of TEST isn't it?" > >Three very confused young men eventually departed my door, promising they >would give you my warmest regards, on the understanding that I in return >would read my message from God in 'Exodus', later that evening. > >Regards, > >SR > >-- >============================= >S. N. Rae, >Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. >mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 16:21:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15614; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:16:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:16:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980916045006.00f84320@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 04:50:06 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: EM wave pressure, Joes Demo In-Reply-To: <008e01bde14e$601799a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"VSwiR.0.kp3.-Q40s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6422 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:45 AM 9/16/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee and All > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >>Maybe there is an aether, but if so then why can't we feel or measure >>wavefronts and wave pressure as the waves of light and gravity travel >>through it, we can do that with sound and water waves. > > >You can (could) buy little evacuated bulbs with rotors that turn in >sunlight. Anybody else seen them? They used to sell them at sea-side shops >when I was a kid. I've seen a video of some US scientists shooting a >metal disk upwards using a laser (this may have been due to super-heating >the underside air though...) I've also seen the average sunlight pressure >on Earth written somewhere........I'll try to find it. Huygens invented that "toy" it is sold in nature shops. The vanes rotate from the direction of the white painted surface (one side of the vane is painted black). The effect is known, the interpretation of what causes the effect is unknown. Since the inside of the chamber is evacutated, there is no "wave". But doesn't concentrated EM force have the capability of stripping atoms from matter. Thought that is what atomic accelerators were all about. In one experiment, at the costs of tremendous energy, they were able to "transmute" a small amount of Mercury into gold. The metal disk being propelled upwards by concentrated light is another clue, especially since it is metal. Perhaps an example of the Befield-Brown effect. As a matter of fact I've read somewhere that NASA is developing a concept by which a spacecraft can be propelled by a SPACE BASED LASER. We know this stuff moves, but sadly, alas, we don't know why it moves. Apparently then one can interpret these experiments as the effect of EM on matter. The absence of an atmosphere in the Huygens toy, would eliminate friction and enable the vanes to move easily. Lee Markland > >Evan offered that I should telephone Joe to ask the questions. What would >be a good (UK) time to call him? (I've since read there was a 1" stainless >steel shaft on his motor) I would prefer to have data from a third party as >well though. > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > > > > > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 16:53:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22745; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980916084717.00f78100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:47:17 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: EM wave pressure, Joes Demo In-Reply-To: <199809161611.JAA07985@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"zIMPo3.0.BZ5.qw40s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6423 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:11 AM 9/16/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 09:45 AM 9/16/98 +0100, you wrote: >>Hi Lee and All >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Lee Markland >>>Maybe there is an aether, but if so then why can't we feel or measure >>>wavefronts and wave pressure as the waves of light and gravity travel >>>through it, we can do that with sound and water waves. >> >> >>You can (could) buy little evacuated bulbs with rotors that turn in >>sunlight. Anybody else seen them? They used to sell them at sea-side shops >>when I was a kid. I've seen a video of some US scientists shooting a >>metal disk upwards using a laser (this may have been due to super-heating >>the underside air though...) I've also seen the average sunlight pressure >>on Earth written somewhere........I'll try to find it. >> >I think the evacuated bulbs with rotating vanes operate on a thermal kinetic >energy vs, straight radiation pressure. The dark surfaces move away, while >the silvered surfaces move toward the light. Still have one, bought it from >Edmund scientific a few years ago. >Am sure though that radiation pressure >has been measured using some lasers. >-Dave Interesting. I like the thermal kinetic explanation, however why would the light surfaces move away from the light while the dark surfaces do. I think we have an enigma, over which we can theorize for some time. With dark surfaces moving (being pushed) away from light, and/or white surfaces being attracted to light like a magnet. Any evidence of such elsewhere's. Maybe the thermal kinetic effect is merely pushing the white vanes away from the light and the black sides are neutral and not affected. Let's see what we know for sure. Light is the visible portion of the EM spectrum. Light is reflected off of a white surface (reason why cops paint the roofs of their cars white and a white car is much more comfortable to sit in in the mid day sun). The EM spectrum will bounce off objects dependent on the frequency. (Radar). Maybe the black painted vanes absorb the frequency of light, and the white painted vanes reflect it and the frequency of white light bouncing off the white painted vanes pushes the vane and makes it spin. Lee Markland From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 19:53:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19766; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <026f01bde1de$a22eb040$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: EM wave pressure, Joes Demo Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:20:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"qz8nK3.0.dq4.3a70s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6425 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >one experiment, at the costs of tremendous energy, they were able to >"transmute" a small amount of Mercury into gold. We know silica can be transmuted into calcium inside of the chickens right? I wonder what other transmutations are possible in organisms? What did they feed the goose that laid the golden eggs? (grin) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 19:53:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19756; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <026c01bde1de$9f661a60$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: What is a wave? Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:52:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"cAA9z3.0.Nq4.2a70s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6424 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Ah, but only at the front where the water piles up on the sloping shelf, >elsewise you just sit there and bob as the waves pass you by. Don't surf You should, it is a lot of fun! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 20:30:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02530; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980916203328.007ed100@microtec.net> X-Sender: energeon@microtec.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:33:28 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Patrick Tremblay Subject: TRANSFORMER MATERIALS In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980916045006.00f84320@rockisland.com> References: <008e01bde14e$601799a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"X088f2.0.Sd.A780s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6426 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I would like to know, transformers are mostly made with silicon steel laminations. If instead it would be made with NEODYM Rare Earth magnetic materials used to make powerfull rare earth magnets, could we make a more powerfull transformer by using those materials instead of silicon steel. If we used HARD FERRITE (the material used to make powerful ceramic magnets) instead of silicon steel to make transformers, could they be more powerful. thanks. Best Regards, energeon, 7515 Jodelle, Laval West (quebec), Canada, H7R-5L5, FAX: 1-514-686-6083 PHONE: 1-514-962-1678 Patrick Tremblay energeon@microtec.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 21:02:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12480; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:00:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:08:10 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Motor fixed report, any "individuals" want to comment ? Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id VAA12433 Resent-Message-ID: <"Uti4o2.0.u23.Lb80s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6428 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/16/98 6:38:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, harti@harti.com writes: << a Newman machine is a DC motor ! So you have a DC supply voltage and the current is just going up in an exponential waveform like 1-e^-t/tau (additional to all the RF bursts on the wire). So, if you just want to look at the input power you don´t need cos phi , but just have to integrate all the current input pulses over time by using the constant supply voltage. I hope this helps to understand it a bit better. Regards, Stefan. >> Sorry, I have not studied the Newman machine. I read the description of the 110 volt input, mentioned several times, and just assumed it was AC. In the US when you see 110 volts mentioned it is almost always referring to the home power 110 V AC. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 21:00:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA01184; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:54:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:54:02 -0700 Message-ID: <360099FF.579@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:11:27 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EM wave pressure, Joes Demo References: <3.0.5.32.19980916084717.00f78100@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JxW2A2.0.WE.-U80s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6427 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > Let's see what we know for sure. > > Light is the visible portion of the EM spectrum. > Light is reflected off of a white surface (reason why cops paint the roofs > of their cars white and a white car is much more comfortable to sit in in > the mid day sun). > The EM spectrum will bounce off objects dependent on the frequency. (Radar). > Maybe the black painted vanes absorb the frequency of light, and the white > painted vanes reflect it and the frequency of white light bouncing off the > white painted vanes pushes the vane and makes it spin. > > Lee Markland Try this experiment, and then lets see what we know for sure: Take a radiometer, and observe how quickly it turns under a good desklamp. Find the glass tip where the radiometer was partially evacuated. Note that I say partially here, the pressure inside that glass bulb is very important. Carefully open the tip with a small glassworing torch, glassgutter, or similar methods. Note that once the tip is opended to normal air, the radiometer no longer turns under the lamp. Connect a flexible line to the radiometer tip, and run this line to a vacuum pump and guage. Run the pump, and note any movement of the radiometer, still being under constant illumination. What happens is that as pressure falls to very low levels, the radiometer begins to run. As the pressure drops lower still, the radiometer also stops. If pumped down to the level of a vacuum tube a radiometer will not run. One interpretation of this behavior is that because the light warms the darker surface, those few molecules left in the bulb will gain more thermal energy, and speed, when they bounce off the hotter darker surface than if they bounce off the cooler and lighter surface. The added speed causes recoil, pushing the darker surface away from the light. We can duplicate this same effect with a known temprature difference between two identical sufaces. Again, as the pressure is lowered it will run, then stop as the pressure drops so low that the few collisions that happen cannot overcome the friction and it stops. The second heat driven experiment suggests that the combination of pressure and temprature difference is enough to cause the rotation. The black and white vanes are simply a way to produce the temprature difference with energy from the light source. The rotation of the radiometer is not conventionally described by radiation pressure. Its also important to know that if the pressure in the radiometer falls to low, it wil not run. Some air is critical to its operation, but not too much, and not too little. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 22:10:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA17486; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:00:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:00:08 -0700 Message-ID: <360081CF.323E@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:28:15 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: leoguitar@vossnet.de CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Motor fixed report, any "individuals" want to comment ? References: <4cc0efb2.35ff3b36@aol.com> <35FFA10A.7C0F684A@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HYm_h1.0.xG4.uR90s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6429 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Hi, > a Newman machine is a DC motor ! > So you have a DC supply voltage and the current is > just going up in an exponential waveform > like 1-e^-t/tau (additional to all the RF bursts on the wire). A laptop battery is a DC battery, but when it is subjected to large current demand pulses, the AC power factor between the battery and the switching power supply can be a factor in practice. Pulsed DC is AC, not constant DC. > So, if you just want to look at the input power you don´t need > cos phi , but just have to integrate all the current input pulses > over time by using the constant supply voltage. This is an opinion, and is correct only if the actual phase angle is zero. This is rarely the case for pulsed, reactive loads. It may also approximate pulsed resistive loads, but cannot predict the true behavior of complex reactances in actual systems. The only way to know if this is an important factor in the Newman motor is to actually measure it. Talking about it has been going on for many many years, far longer than freenrg-l has been around. Mr. Newman has personally assured me that there is no need for these measurments, so I guess there really is no need to worry. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 22:10:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA17607; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:00:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:00:06 -0700 Message-ID: <36007CDA.6690@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:07:06 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Motor fixed report, any "individuals" want to comment ? References: <4cc0efb2.35ff3b36@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aF8tL.0.CI4.AS90s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6430 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keasy@aol.com wrote: > It is probably worth remembering that the power the unit is drawing from the > 110 volt input is 110 x current x cos(theta) where theta is the phase angle > between the voltage and current. So just measuring the voltage to the motor > and the current drawn gives you no real indication of the power used by the > motor. For that you have to use a true wattmeter or measure (or know) the > phase angle. > Ken Keasy@aol.com Good point Ken, I have seen similar results from switching power supplies, increase the load, and the power factor changes significantly. E times I may suggest that the power did not change, but this is quite incorrect in reality. In this case, Ni-MHD batteries were being pulse-discharged through a switching regulator. Plug-in accessories with smaller internal batteries would be 'topped off' by the main (Ni-MHD) pack through the regulator. To properly recharge the smaller batteries in the plug-in modules, their charging regulators must switch between constant current, and constant voltage modes. The total power demand through the main switcher was very dynamic, and it was totally impossible to measure through current and voltage measurments alone. It was impossible for the existing measurment hardware to actually measure the true behavior of the system! Current and voltage alone can only fully describe power in steady state, DC systems. These are not the correct measurments needed to describe the real power level in the majority of real systems. To neglect the importance of the true AC power factor, often a dynamic value, in AC measurments is akin to voodoo. I have personally discussed this with Mr. Newman at some lenght, despite recent claims that no one has bothered to do this. This is a matter of record in the list archives actually....that is, this conversation was discussed here some time ago. I had hoped for an engaging technical discussion of measurment methods in a specific experimental context I had tested. Sadly my exchange with Mr. Newman failed to address the issues at hand, and ended as a mutual failure. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 22:22:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01076; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <36008B1F.EA3E0CA8@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:07:59 -0600 From: Henry Curtis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EM wave pressure, Joes Demo References: <026f01bde1de$a22eb040$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GTX2O2.0.iG.fm90s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6431 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Wallace wrote: > >one experiment, at the costs of tremendous energy, they were able to > >"transmute" a small amount of Mercury into gold. > > We know silica can be transmuted into calcium inside of the chickens right? > I wonder what other transmutations are possible in organisms? What did they > feed the goose that laid the golden eggs? (grin) Could you consider the possibility that if you tried it the grin might just drop off of your face? Henry Curtis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 16 23:42:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01403; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3601490C.69EB@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:38:20 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application References: <3.0.5.32.19980915120853.00f8edf0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980917015258.00f66d20@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JT1B8.0.nL.OsA0s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6433 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > LOL Stu Rae, ROFL Great story, probably true,, Pssst, big secret it's Ms > Markland, not Mr, as my credibility gap widens more. What? A damn woman, > no wonder. > ....Egads Chaps!..., A Chapess!.....:-)) ROFL.... But then, I'm just a simple minded practical everyday psychic myself. Regards, Stuart -- ============================== S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 00:21:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA18014; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:14:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:14:44 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980916115923.00fbc290@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:59:23 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: EM wave pressure, Joes Demo In-Reply-To: <026f01bde1de$a22eb040$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Zqrgt3.0.9P4.RRB0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6435 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:20 PM 9/16/98 -0400, you wrote: >>one experiment, at the costs of tremendous energy, they were able to >>"transmute" a small amount of Mercury into gold. > >We know silica can be transmuted into calcium inside of the chickens right? >I wonder what other transmutations are possible in organisms? What did they >feed the goose that laid the golden eggs? (grin) > Puffed Rice?( Big Grin) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 00:22:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA17740; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:14:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:14:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980916115636.00a29620@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:56:36 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: What is a wave? In-Reply-To: <026c01bde1de$9f661a60$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"NfuTt2.0.eK4.sQB0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6434 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:52 PM 9/16/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Ah, but only at the front where the water piles up on the sloping shelf, >>elsewise you just sit there and bob as the waves pass you by. Don't surf > >You should, it is a lot of fun! LOL, Too old and afraid of those Sharks, seen what they can do at DAvenport,CA From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 00:35:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA08897; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:05:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:05:41 -0700 Message-ID: <36007ED3.6134@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:15:31 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Motor fixed report, any "individuals" want to comment ? References: <4cc0efb2.35ff3b36@aol.com> <36005c55.5472093@mail-hub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VQDqs3.0.SA2.oQA0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6432 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > True, but won't ignoring the phase angle lead to an under estimation > of the motor efficiency? IOW, if it's OU when ignoring the phase > angle, then in reality it is even more OU. No, phase angles can cause errors in either direction depending on the net reactance of the load, I beleive, but the detailed explaination may be soemthing more complex than that. A given current and voltage can represent a wide range of actual power levels. If the load changes, and so does the power factor, total power can change far more than any change in current and voltage alone. Without the power factor, your reading random numbers. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 00:57:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA04354; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:41:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:41:50 -0700 Message-ID: <36008E53.7AA9@keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:21:39 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Rolling Ball website Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LKclF1.0.231.uqB0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6436 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! The following was sent in and I'm posting it here so all can check it out. Highly reminescent of the TOMI and the SMOT with some new twists. ==================== Anyone researching the pre-history of modern devices based on magnetic ramps with accelerated steel balls may find David M. MacMillan's Rolling Ball Web page of considerable interest. The URL is http://www.database.com/~lemur/rb-index.html It presents a wealth of information about rolling-ball clocks, rolling-ball sculptures, and rolling-ball perpetual motion machines. For example, it discusses the work of Johannes Taisnier (a.k.a. Taisnierus), a Jesuit Priest of the sixteenth century. He designed a device in which a steel ball ascended a magnetic ramp, fell through a hole, and returned to the bottom of the ramp to begin the cycle anew. Whether he actually built such a device is not known. -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 00:57:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA04442; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:41:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:41:56 -0700 Message-ID: <36008F9C.65C0@keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:27:08 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: John Hutchison Contact Info Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kcGD_1.0.r41.0rB0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6437 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Mark Solis shares the following Hutchison contact info; =================== The following web pages have been updated: John Hutchison's Web Page http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8863/index.html Beyond The Cutting Edge http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8864/index.html John Hutchison can be reached via E-mail at either of these addresses: john_hutchison@geocities.com john_hutchison@usa.net Your time and attention are both greatly appreciated. -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 03:11:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA04154; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:09:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:09:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3601EAFD.797AFA28@ihug.co.nz> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:09:18 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Motor fixed report, any "individuals" want to comment ? References: <4cc0efb2.35ff3b36@aol.com> <36007CDA.6690@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X0guJ3.0.k01.--D0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6438 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > Keasy@aol.com wrote: > > > It is probably worth remembering that the power the unit is drawing from the > > 110 volt input is 110 x current x cos(theta) where theta is the phase angle > > between the voltage and current. So just measuring the voltage to the motor > > and the current drawn gives you no real indication of the power used by the > > motor. For that you have to use a true wattmeter or measure (or know) the > > phase angle. > > Ken Keasy@aol.com > > Good point Ken, > > I have seen similar results from switching power supplies, increase the > load, and the power factor changes significantly. E times I may suggest > that the power did not change, but this is quite incorrect in reality. > > In this case, Ni-MHD batteries were being pulse-discharged through a > switching regulator. Plug-in accessories with smaller internal > batteries would be 'topped off' by the main (Ni-MHD) pack through the > regulator. To properly recharge the smaller batteries in the plug-in > modules, their charging regulators must switch between constant current, > and constant voltage modes. > > The total power demand through the main switcher was very dynamic, and > it was totally impossible to measure through current and voltage > measurments alone. It was impossible for the existing measurment > hardware to actually measure the true behavior of the system! > > Current and voltage alone can only fully describe power in steady state, > DC systems. > These are not the correct measurments needed to describe the real power > level in the majority of real systems. > > To neglect the importance of the true AC power factor, often a dynamic > value, in AC measurments is akin to voodoo. Yes but the problem is only with over-estimation of power and not under-estimation, if the input power into the motor is over-estimated it will only decrease the apparent overunity functioning of the device and not make an an underunity device look OU. John Berry From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 04:05:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA14379; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:59:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:59:02 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:09:03 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Report from Donny Appelbaum Resent-Message-ID: <"fk2Xk1.0.bW3.sjE0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6439 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear List Members, I just received the following from Donny Appelbaum of Florida who returned from Arizona: "Dear Evan, I would like to relate to you the experience that I had at the Sun City Grand demonstration in Phoenix Arizona. We had traveled to Phoenix to view the demonstration of Joseph Newman's latest prototype of the Motor/Generator. This one promised to be an advancement over the crude home built model shown in Joe's book. I had heard about the motor and the technology from a friend who had a print out off of the Internet. I read the information and immediately went to the Internet to find out everything I could about the technology. We went to the library and found a copy of Joe's book at the Tulane University Library in Louisiana, which they forwarded to us in Florida and I read it and re-read if for about 3 weeks. Evan Soule', the director of information for Joseph Newman Technologies Corp. kept me well informed and updated. So when Evan notified us that there would be a demonstration presentation in Phoenix Arizona on September 12th 1998, I made plans to go. The motor Joe had on display at the demonstration was sleek and compact and quite an advancement in design, but it was not running. During Joe's talk to the audience he explained the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the construction of the motor. Basically the motor company hired to build the motor had attempted to grab the technology and sabotage Joe's efforts to bring the motor to the public. Joe had visited the motor company and corrected their wiring errors, supplied magnets for the motor, assembled it and had it running. Upon his return to the motor company a few days later, he found that they had disassembled the motor and cut the internal wiring. Joe quickly removed the unit from their shop and brought it to Arizona for the demonstration. At the time of the demonstration the motor was not yet repaired and operational. Needless to say this was quite a disappointment to me and to everyone at the demonstration. We all knew that the motor worked as Joe had said, but we wanted to see it and experience it. After all a picture is worth a thousand words and an experience is worth a thousand pictures. Joe promised to have the motor operational by Monday for those who want to stay over. We decided to stay. By Monday afternoon Joe arrived with the motor and was ready to demonstrate it's power. He brought it to the Quality Inn where those that had remained in Phoenix during the weekend gathered for the experience. The motor was badly damaged by the motor company and was binding along the armature against the casing, but Joe and Milton Everett tapped the end bearing plates and turned the shaft searching for that critical spot where everything was mechanically aligned and the armature would free-wheel by hand. That spot was never found, but Joe, knowing the power of the motor, elected to run the motor for us even in this crippled condition. Twenty-four 6 volt drycell batteries was used for the battery pack. An ammeter placed in line with the battery pack to measure the current draw from the motor, and Joe started it up. Finally I was able to see it run, and even in it's crippled state of operation, it was amazing. The rpms of the shaft, which normally would be 600 to 700 rpms was a very slow 80 to 95 revolution per minute. That would be my best guess from watching the shaft. We each took turns trying to choke it down. We had a pair of gloves and we attempted to squeeze the shaft and put some strain on the motor. The motor drew 1.7 to 2 amps and no matter how hard we tried we could not slow the motor down at all and the current draw remained steady throughout all of our attempts. We even tried to hold the shaft and then start the motor and there was absolutely no stopping it, and realize this was at a very low shaft rotation. We operated the motor off and on for about an hour while we listened and talked with Joe about the motor, and about the possibilities it would provide for mankind, about manufacturing projections and plans, and about the amazing power produced by the immense magnetic field of this motor. This motor was sleek and powerful and absolutely quiet. Compared to the models in the book it was like a surfboard to a piece of plywood. It became obvious to me that from here on we can expect to see production. The time has truly come for the technology that Joe has understood and taught to manifest into products that we will be able to purchase and utilize in our lives. Joe's exciting plans for the 10K and 20K home power plants will just be the beginning. And for me, although Joe has been at it for over 20 years, this is the beginning and I am absolutely thrilled to be able to be a part of it. To see that motor come alive with the intense power that was at the shaft, and knowing, because I now understand the theory behind the motor, that the motor will continue to run with no need for additional fuel supplied from outside. The road to a pollution free, ultra modern society with unlimited energy potential, is incredible beyond words. The only words that I can really say are Thank You God." Best Regards Donny Appelbaum From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 06:47:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA31904; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:42:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:42:13 -0700 Message-ID: <002701bde241$1dbcb560$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Report from Donny Appelbaum Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:42:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"XVNF_1.0.Jo7.r6H0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6440 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All Even if the motor isn't O/U, Joe certainly seems to have something new in motors! -----Original Message----- From: Evan Soule >I just received the following from Donny Appelbaum of Florida who returned >from Arizona: [SNIP] Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 06:48:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA00330; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:44:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:44:59 -0700 Message-ID: <003001bde241$81085340$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: , Subject: Re: Report from Donny Appelbaum Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:45:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"HY4QG3.0._4.P9H0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6441 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Evan Could you ask Joe/Donny what type of meter was used to measure the input current? Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 08:57:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA17470; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:53:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:53:59 -0700 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:52:34 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:14:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: RE: Is Gravity Broken To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential UA-content-id: E1746ZXOKGZ6VT X400-MTS-identifier: [;43251171908991/3228636@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"4cjOa.0.oG4.M2J0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6442 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, Questions concerning the NASA space probes slowing down. 1) How was the distance traveled determined? (A) Actual position measurement by the probe. (B) Or calculated by the time it takes the signal to get there & back. If (B) then how do we really know that the probe is being slowed and not the signal being sped up, or not being slowed down as the case may be? Since we are being told to question everything, why not the speed of light constant? Perhaps it changes dependent on how far into a gravity well the observer is. Since all previous measurements of the speed "C" have been taken at our current gravity well position. Now we actually have something out far enough that we can time the bounce of a known signal, but at a significantly different gravity well depth. Something that we have taken for granted is wrong, either the probe is slowing down when it shouldn't, or our yard stick for measuring is being stretched. Or both? 2) If we can assume (ass-u-me) "C" is constant, perhaps in NASA's speed formula for the probe is a fudge factor to cover known but unexplained factors. Example, was solar wind taken into consideration. If the fudge factor is based again on our observations in our proximity to the sun, then it could be seen as a constant. But if it is a component of this fudge factor, the further out the probe goes the less this becomes a factor. Therefore it's not really slowing down, it's just not speeding up as expected. Perhaps there is even a galactic wind that is becoming more of a factor the further out from the sun it gets. In their current escape orbit are they going towards or away from the galactic drift. 3) Does the amount of error fall within the cumulative error of all the instrument tolerances of all the devices used to measure the influences that go into where we think the probe should be by now. I have seen cases where the tolerance of the instruments are specified by the customer. But when a constant error of 10% of the tolerance range for the instrument is introduced the results of the analysis calculation, again provided by the customer, are thrown off by as much as 60% in the case that I worked on. In the case of the probes, for example the instrument used to determine how close it approached an object while using the slingshot effect was off each time so that the result is more or less than expected as the case may be. 4) Are all the probes going out in a spin-ward or anti spin-ward direction from the rest of the planets. If they are not both the same, is there a difference in the amount of error. If they are both going out anti spin-ward perhaps they are bucking the "flow"? Again, just some honest questions from an amateur fumbling in the dark. William E. Briggs Jr. webriggs@concentric.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 13:53:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA32066; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:48:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:48:09 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:58:10 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Report from Donny Appelbaum Resent-Message-ID: <"K8_qp2.0.xq7.8MN0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6443 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi Evan > >Could you ask Joe/Donny what type of meter was used to measure the input >current? > >Best regards > >David Callaghan >Dear Evan, > >I didn't examine the meter closely, but it looked like a multi-meter like >you would buy a Radio Shack. It was set on the AMP setting and measured >the current draw by the motor on the battery pack. > >Best Regards >Donny Appelbaum From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 14:47:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA25740; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:44:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:44:50 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917042012.00f67810@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 04:20:12 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Fullerene and Application In-Reply-To: <3601490C.69EB@mlb.planet.gen.nz> References: <3.0.5.32.19980915120853.00f8edf0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980917015258.00f66d20@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"fkCUK1.0._H6.HBO0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6444 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:38 AM 9/17/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: > >> >> LOL Stu Rae, ROFL Great story, probably true,, Pssst, big secret it's Ms >> Markland, not Mr, as my credibility gap widens more. What? A damn woman, >> no wonder. >> > >....Egads Chaps!..., A Chapess!.....:-)) ROFL.... > >But then, I'm just a simple minded practical everyday psychic myself. > >Regards, > >Stuart Yeh, but you be OK, one kewl dude :) Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 14:48:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA25834; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:45:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:45:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917045024.00f728a0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 04:50:24 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: [AEF] The Sky is Shrinking! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"LBI2F.0.KJ6.UBO0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6445 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From today's Daily Telegraph. I kmow they say that the world is getting smaller but this is slightly ridiculous See article below my comments Pete ***************************************************************************** Since atmosphere is held to the Earth by gravitational pull (that's what causes atmospheric pressure by the way). And we are losing our atmosphere. Could that be a sign that the Earth's gravitational pull is diminishing? Only if gravity was not a property of mass, but a current force produced by a physical process. Still think the following is circular reasoning: Gravity is what causes mass, mass is what causes gravity. Lee Markland. Sky has shrunk by five miles, say scientists By Aisling Irwin, Science Correspondent THE sky is shrinking and has been doing so for the past 40 years, scientists have discovered. About five miles of sky have been lost since 1958, andthat figure may double over the next century. Researchers studying the Earth's upper atmosphere, 56 miles up, said the contraction isprobably a result of the greenhouse effect. They reassured peopleyesterday that it is unlikely to do us any harm. (Greenhouse effect, I think not - Lee). Dr Martin Jarvis, of the British Antarctic Survey in Cambridge said: "Nothing nasty is going to happen." But he said the change was a dramatic reminder that global warming is having profound consequences. The Earth's atmosphere is divided into several zones, the uppermost of which is the thermosphere. Interspersed within the thermosphere is the little-known ionosphere, composed mainly of ionised gases. The ionosphere is studied by bombarding it with radio wave pulses from below, in a technique similar to the echo-sounders used on ships to study the ocean floor. The new study, which probed 38 years of data gathered at the Antarctic peninsula and the Falkland Islands, reveals for the first time that the shrinkage is global, said Dr Jarvis, who worked with scientists from the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory in Oxfordshire. The work is published in the Journal of Geophysical Research. The effect is believed to be the result of carbon dioxide build-up. At lower altitudes the gas acts like a blanket, causing the Earth to heat up. This is because it absorbs infra-red rays and reflects some of them back down on to the Earth. But when carbon dioxide accumulates in the thermosphere, the gas siphons heat away, absorbing infra-red and reflecting much of it into space, where it is lost. As a result, it cools and the pressure then drops, which causes the ionosphere to shrink. Variations in the thermosphere can be up to 100 times greater than at ground level, and it can therefore be used as a sensitive litmus test of global change. Dr Jarvis said: "The drop in altitude is not in itself harmful to people. It is, however, another warning signal about what changes to the atmosphere can be caused by human impact." -- The universe may be not only queerer than we think, but queerer than we CAN think. J.B.S. Haldane ************************************************************** To unsubscribe: http://www.paradigm-sys.com/ae/aef-list.html or email to majordomo@zmatrix.com in the message body: UNSUBSCRIBE aefl your_email_address To get HELP file send in the message body: HELP ************************************************************** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 17:06:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA28563; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:03:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:03:10 -0700 Message-ID: <36004D85.676B@nf.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:15:09 -0230 From: Bruce Nickerson Reply-To: bruce.nickerson@nf.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SYMPA (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------50AC6C336718" Resent-Message-ID: <"R2dxl.0.B-6.zCQ0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6446 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------50AC6C336718 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I offer my theory as to the gravitational anomaly as follows: Since there is a body of work describing all electromagnetic radiation as a function of basic static electrical forces and that magnetic and gravitational forces can be described as spin waves. Then the anomaly could be explained as a resultant spin wave gravitational wave resulting from the total mass movement of the solar system. In other words the angular velocity of the spin wave would be equal to the angular velocity of the solar system and the sum of the charges in the rotational masses generates the superimposed positive and negative spin waves. A quantum density variations exists because of the moving spin waves which results in a slightly higher gravitational constant in the plane of the solar system rotation. This force does not exist in the axial direction because there is no velocity to the spin waves. Since most of the mass in the solar system is in the sun most of the spin waves are from this source. As a space craft travels farther from the sun then the effects of the individual planets would be more pronounced based on position. Therefore if the velocity profile of a space craft were very accurately known then this mechanism could be used as a verification. The variation of spin wave amplitude as the relative positions of planets change is an additional force over and above the traditional Newtonian gravitational forces. In observation we would simply think the gravitational constant was a bit larger which is indeed what has happened. --------------50AC6C336718 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp27.bellglobal.com by l.pop50.bellglobal.com (PMDF V5.1-10 #26718) with ESMTP id <0EZ8008BQPBAGK@l.pop50.bellglobal.com> for a1zaya92@pop50.bellglobal.com; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by smtp27.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23113 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA15480; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:37:28 -0700 Resent-date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:37:28 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 03:14:25 -0700 Resent-from: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Gravitational anomaly In-reply-to: <199809130418.VAA20723@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Resent-sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-message-id: <"alOS63.0.nn3.7q2_r"@mx1> Message-id: <3.0.5.32.19980913031425.00f36200@rockisland.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Precedence: list X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6359 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com This is from the BBC's Internet SciTech News Thursday, September 10, 1998 Published at 15:06 GMT 16:06 UK Sci/Tech Spacecrafts pulled by mystery force It seems that space probes travelling through the solar system are not behaving according to the known law of gravity, puzzling scientists. Our science editor Dr David Whitehouse reports. According to Nasa's John Anderson it is a real puzzle. He said: "We've been working on this problem for several years, and we accounted for everything we could think of." It is all to do with the motion of space probes in the outer solar system. In 1972, Nasa launched Pioneer 10 to Jupiter. Since then scientists have maintained regular radio contact with it as it passed Jupiter and sped into deep space. By studying the doppler shift of the radio signals from the craft scientists have been able to calculate how fast it is travelling. The puzzle is that Pioneer 10 seems to be slowing more quickly than it should. Astronomers have detected an anomaly, as if Pioneer 10 were getting an extra pull from the Sun that cannot be explained. No-one is sure what is to blame. A fuel leak, friction from gas in space, thermal radiation from the spacecraft's batteries and gravity from an unknown asteroid have all been ruled out. Pioneer 11, launched in 1973, is also slowing at about the same rate. The Ulysses probe, launched in 1990, is also affected. Signals from Galileo, now orbiting Jupiter, may also show the same effect. Scientists are a long way from suggesting that Newton's law of gravity should be reworked. But the same strange effect seen in four space probes is making them think. --------------50AC6C336718-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 18:51:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA12416; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:49:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:49:30 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917105000.00fc8460@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:50:00 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] In-Reply-To: <36004D85.676B@nf.sympatico.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"JrAGy2.0.o13.fmR0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6447 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:15 PM 9/16/98 -0230, you wrote: >I offer my theory as to the gravitational anomaly as follows: > > Since there is a body of work describing all electromagnetic radiation >as a function of basic static electrical forces and that magnetic and >gravitational forces can be described as spin waves. Then the anomaly >could be explained as a resultant spin wave gravitational wave resulting >from the total mass movement of the solar system. In other words the >angular velocity of the spin wave would be equal to the angular velocity >of the solar system and the sum of the charges in the rotational masses >generates the superimposed positive and negative spin waves. And might a naive one ask, whence the wave. What effect has been dropped in the pond (the medium, and what is that medium in the solar system?) To cause a spin wave, do waves Spin? What medium is there in space to produce a wave? And if there is a wave or one can cause a wave in empty, medium less space, then what action causes a wave. I apologize, I just can't get by this hurdle, of waves in a void. Especially when a wave is merely the transmission of energy by the disturbance of the medium. Plop a rock in the pond and you get a wave. Clap your hands and you get a sound wave. To get a series of waves you have to keep dropping rocks. Where are the ripples with all of these gravitational and light waves? And how does one get a wave in the void of empty space. Why do we even think like this? Because that is what we were taught? Then again one can describe gravitational forces as anything one wants or needs to. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 19:13:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA21142; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:11:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:11:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3601C1AC.3D96@keelynet.com> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:13:00 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: markland@rockisland.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] References: <3.0.5.32.19980917105000.00fc8460@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PEOki3.0.6A5.B5S0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6448 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee! Aether IS! the source of all waves, matter and energy. Refer to the following; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/reynold1.txt http://www.keelynet.com/energy/reynold2.txt http://www.keelynet.com/energy/reynold3.txt Matter as bubbles in the pressurized aether of space; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/bubble1.txt Some of the best aether theories on the web; http://www.magna.com.au/~prfbrown/aether.html The neutral center and cascading forceflows; http://www.keelynet.com/keely/neutral1.txt When we can learn to tap the inflow, we'll have most of the answers. My opinion. -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 20:04:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14978; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:01:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:01:26 -0700 Message-ID: <00b001bde2b0$54426200$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: What is a wave? Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:59:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"Oklya.0.Of3.2qS0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6450 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>Ah, but only at the front where the water piles up on the sloping shelf, >>>elsewise you just sit there and bob as the waves pass you by. Don't surf >> >>You should, it is a lot of fun! > >LOL, Too old and afraid of those Sharks, seen what they can do at >DAvenport,CA Well hell, the sharks are what make it exciting! (grin) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 20:06:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA15057; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:01:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:01:32 -0700 Message-ID: <00ac01bde2b0$5136a8a0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: , Cc: , Subject: Re: Rolling Ball website Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:31:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"iOnzw2.0.Pg3.6qS0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6451 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What is the deal on the finsrud machine, if it works why has it not been replicated? >Hi Folks! > >The following was sent in and I'm posting it here so all can check it >out. Highly reminescent of the TOMI and the SMOT with some new twists. >==================== >Anyone researching the pre-history of modern devices based on >magnetic ramps with accelerated steel balls may find David M. >MacMillan's Rolling Ball Web page of considerable interest. >The URL is > > http://www.database.com/~lemur/rb-index.html > >It presents a wealth of information about rolling-ball clocks, >rolling-ball sculptures, and rolling-ball perpetual motion >machines. For example, it discusses the work of Johannes >Taisnier (a.k.a. Taisnierus), a Jesuit Priest of the sixteenth >century. He designed a device in which a steel ball ascended a >magnetic ramp, fell through a hole, and returned to the bottom >of the ramp to begin the cycle anew. Whether he actually built >such a device is not known. >-- > Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To leave this list, email > with the body text: leave keelynet > WWW based join and leave forms and KeelyNet list archives > are at http://dallastexas.net/keelynet/ > ------------------------------------------------------------- > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 20:06:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14865; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:01:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:01:16 -0700 Message-ID: <00ae01bde2b0$52eb0f60$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: EM wave pressure, Joes Demo Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:51:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ez3Vl1.0.fd3.tpS0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6449 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> We know silica can be transmuted into calcium inside of the chickens right? >> I wonder what other transmutations are possible in organisms? What did they >> feed the goose that laid the golden eggs? (grin) > >Could you consider the possibility that if you tried it the grin might just drop off of >your face? Ok, what do you suggest I feed to the goose, or why even limit ourselves to geese, I am always open for suggestions, perhaps there is a certain strain of bacteria or fish or lizard out there that when put on lead digests it and excretes gold, how would one go about finding this out however? Why stop at gold, why not include all the ways that coal can be crushed to make a diamond, certainly with a high magnetic field you could create enough pressure couldn't you? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 20:19:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24370; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:15:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:15:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917121852.00fcbcf0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:18:52 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] In-Reply-To: <3601C1AC.3D96@keelynet.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980917105000.00fc8460@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_TudZ.0.Zy5.k1T0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6452 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks, kind of ambiguous on that theory, although I am aware of the work of Silvertooth and Marinov. Still in all, if Michelson and Morely were wrong, and there is an aether. Does that mean that it is the SOURCE of all waves. Remember a wave is a distrubance in a medium, and usually, you'll find the source of the disturbance is a singular event (or an ongoing series of singular events) punctuated by periods of no event. Hence rock drops, another rock drops. Firecrackers pop in succession. I can't make that leap from an ongoing event (gravity or light) to a wave, even given the aether. (Still unverified) What is the problem with reconceptualizing light for what it is - radiation. I understand that light is up in the tetrahertz band. Why does it have to be a wave,or gravity too? Because that is what we were told? I posted something on Young's two slit experiment and how the misanalogy has screwed us up, screwed up our concepts, our thinking and how we conceptualize stuff and configure our experiments. All because of a 200 year old misconcept. No skin off my butt though, I'm not the one doing the experimenting and trying to find answers. If I was I would be looking for new rows to plow as the old ground is fallow and bears no fruit. Frankly thought heat was made up of phlogesten, can you imagine where we would be today if that were taught as physics or believed so rigidly to be true? Lee At 09:13 PM 9/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Lee! > >Aether IS! > >the source of all waves, matter and energy. > >Refer to the following; > > http://www.keelynet.com/energy/reynold1.txt > > http://www.keelynet.com/energy/reynold2.txt > > http://www.keelynet.com/energy/reynold3.txt > >Matter as bubbles in the pressurized aether of space; > > http://www.keelynet.com/energy/bubble1.txt > >Some of the best aether theories on the web; > > http://www.magna.com.au/~prfbrown/aether.html > >The neutral center and cascading forceflows; > > http://www.keelynet.com/keely/neutral1.txt > >When we can learn to tap the inflow, we'll have most of the answers. My >opinion. > >-- > Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 20:56:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA06113; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:52:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:52:35 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:53:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980917105000.00fc8460@rockisland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"sIggv1.0.PV1.2aT0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6453 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Lee Markland wrote: > At 09:15 PM 9/16/98 -0230, you wrote: > >I offer my theory as to the gravitational anomaly as follows: > > > > Since there is a body of work describing all electromagnetic radiation > >as a function of basic static electrical forces and that magnetic and > >gravitational forces can be described as spin waves. Then the anomaly > >could be explained as a resultant spin wave gravitational wave resulting > >from the total mass movement of the solar system. In other words the > >angular velocity of the spin wave would be equal to the angular velocity > >of the solar system and the sum of the charges in the rotational masses > >generates the superimposed positive and negative spin waves. > > And might a naive one ask, whence the wave. What effect has been dropped in > the pond (the medium, and what is that medium in the solar system?) To > cause a spin wave, do waves Spin? > > What medium is there in space to produce a wave? And if there is a wave or > one can cause a wave in empty, medium less space, then what action causes a > wave. > I'd highly recommend the book GEOMETRODYNAMICS by John Archibald Wheeler. Having read it and other books and papers on QED, I've put together this concept: Spacetime itself is composed of "locations in space" which move or jump around in a random fashion (that's right, the locations change relative to one another on a submicroscopic level). This produces what is referred to as the ZPE, Zitterbewegung, virtual particle flux, quantum foam, etc. This co-motion also produces "time". A "wave" is altering the randomness of this fluctuation to some extent - it is producing correlations in the randomness. This accomplishes energy flow through the medium. The "aether" is actually spacetime itself. A wave "waves" spacetime. Wheeler outlined calculations in his book which derived value of the zero-point energy and the "speed of light". Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 20:58:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA07658; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:56:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:56:03 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:57:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: EM wave pressure, Joes Demo To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <00ae01bde2b0$52eb0f60$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Sa3BP1.0.4t1.IdT0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6454 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Bill Wallace wrote: > >> We know silica can be transmuted into calcium inside of the chickens > right? > >> I wonder what other transmutations are possible in organisms? What did > they > >> feed the goose that laid the golden eggs? (grin) > > > >Could you consider the possibility that if you tried it the grin might just > drop off of > >your face? > > > Ok, what do you suggest I feed to the goose, or why even limit ourselves to > geese, I am always open for suggestions, perhaps there is a certain strain > of bacteria or fish or lizard out there that when put on lead digests it and > excretes gold, how would one go about finding this out however? Why stop at > gold, why not include all the ways that coal can be crushed to make a > diamond, certainly with a high magnetic field you could create enough > pressure couldn't you? > Murphy's Laws dictate that what you have to feed the goose to get it to produce golden eggs will be 10 times as expensive as the gold it produces. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 21:01:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA09542; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:59:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:59:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917125058.00fd0e30@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:50:58 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: What is a wave? In-Reply-To: <00b001bde2b0$54426200$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"zDqIQ3.0.kK2.ngT0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6455 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:59 PM 9/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>>Ah, but only at the front where the water piles up on the sloping shelf, >>>>elsewise you just sit there and bob as the waves pass you by. Don't surf >>> >>>You should, it is a lot of fun! >> >>LOL, Too old and afraid of those Sharks, seen what they can do at >>DAvenport,CA > > >Well hell, the sharks are what make it exciting! (grin) For you maybe, I've seen what a great white can do to a surfer. But my best all time bud is a surfer, does Hawaii every year, has a secret spot. It must be addicting though, like idiots what jump out of airplanes and pay to do it. I can understand the military, they get paid, but to pay to do it? I ain't got nuttin' to prove, thank you. I'll keep my woosy butt nice, warm and comfortable and watch the sharks feed. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 21:02:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA09567; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:59:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:59:47 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917125130.00fcf940@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:51:30 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Rolling Ball website In-Reply-To: <00ac01bde2b0$5136a8a0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1NNNx.0.EL2.ngT0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6456 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It got lost in the fnord At 10:31 PM 9/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >What is the deal on the finsrud machine, if it works why has it not been >replicated? > > > >>Hi Folks! >> >>The following was sent in and I'm posting it here so all can check it >>out. Highly reminescent of the TOMI and the SMOT with some new twists. >>==================== >>Anyone researching the pre-history of modern devices based on >>magnetic ramps with accelerated steel balls may find David M. >>MacMillan's Rolling Ball Web page of considerable interest. >>The URL is >> >> http://www.database.com/~lemur/rb-index.html >> >>It presents a wealth of information about rolling-ball clocks, >>rolling-ball sculptures, and rolling-ball perpetual motion >>machines. For example, it discusses the work of Johannes >>Taisnier (a.k.a. Taisnierus), a Jesuit Priest of the sixteenth >>century. He designed a device in which a steel ball ascended a >>magnetic ramp, fell through a hole, and returned to the bottom >>of the ramp to begin the cycle anew. Whether he actually built >>such a device is not known. >>-- >> Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com >> http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" >> Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 >> KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> To leave this list, email >> with the body text: leave keelynet >> WWW based join and leave forms and KeelyNet list archives >> are at http://dallastexas.net/keelynet/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 21:24:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA20063; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:23:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:23:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3602E7D1.52F7@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:08:01 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] References: <3.0.5.32.19980917105000.00fc8460@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980917121852.00fcbcf0@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Lrzc33.0.Ov4.71U0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6457 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > Thanks, kind of ambiguous on that theory, although I am aware of the work > of Silvertooth and Marinov. > > Still in all, if Michelson and Morely were wrong, and there is an aether. > Does that mean that it is the SOURCE of all waves. > Big snip The following is from an article that expresses my own view on the matter far better than I ever could myself. Can you see any genuine fallacy in any of the concepts presented ? It seems to me that it expresses an eminently rational view. And one that clearly describes a graduation of substance, or 'Aether', in a manner that also explains the major problem of "action at a distance", including perhaps that of gravitational "attraction"....:-) "........anything which is absolutely indivisible -- whether we call it a particle of matter or a quantum of energy -- would be entirely homogeneous and inflexible. But how can something of this nature take part in interactions with other physical entities? If we apply a force to it, the force must cause deformation and be transmitted through the internal structure of the entity. But if it was truly homogeneous it would have no internal structure, there would be no deformation, and the force applied would have to pass instantaneously (infinitely fast) to the other side. Since this is impossible, everything must be composite and divisible. It might be countered that the concept of elasticity does not apply to particles as understood by modern physics, which are described as fuzzy and indistinct, a "ghostly melee of half-forms," which can be understood only in terms of mathematical abstractions. (The Matter Myth, p. 141.) But this is merely an evasion. Either these ghostly entities are entirely homogeneous and undeformable, in which case they are pure abstractions and exist only on paper, or they are inhomogeneous and deformable, in which case they must be divisible. Bohm points out that arguments on whether matter is fundamentally discrete or continuous go back to the ancient Greeks, and at first sight the two points of view appear to be incompatible. However, on closer investigation it would appear that any theory of the continuous nature of matter can in fact be based upon an opposing theory involving discrete matter that is so fine as to have never manifested its nature up to the present time. Conversely, any theory of the discontinuous structure of matter can be explained as arising through the localization and concentration of a continuous background. -- Science, Order & Creativity, pp. 72-3 Physical particles can therefore be thought of as concentrations of an underlying, continuous ether. But the ether is only relatively continuous. Further analysis would show that it, too, is discontinuous, and these particle-like discontinuities would be concentrations of a deeper, subtler ether, which in turn is relatively continuous, but actually consists of even finer particles, which are in turn concentrations of an even subtler ether, and so on, ad infinitum. Thus as we move from our own distance scale beyond the Planck scale towards the infinitesimal, there is no reason to suppose that an absolutely bottom level of matter, consisting of absolutely homogeneous particles, will ever be reached. Between the two abstract limits of the infinite and the infinitesimal, there is a limitless number of concrete, finite systems -- atoms, planets, stars, galaxies, etc.........." Unquote: SR -- ============================= S. N. Rae, Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 21:30:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA20922; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:26:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:26:03 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917132927.00fb5c70@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:29:27 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980917105000.00fc8460@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"zgCXb2.0.l65.Q3U0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6458 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zack I don't want to be facetious or argumentative. I've got to ask these questions though. Isn't spacetime a derivative Einstein's theories? I keep hearing people refer to him as though he was some god or messiah. I've got a number of good books, Especially The Einstein Myth and the Ives Papers, that really expose him and invalidate much of his theories. Ives called him a paradox swallower, given a choice between two things, he would say that both are true. Space time is a good example it is tantamount to adding pencils and oranges. A better example is adding kilograms and seconds together and then ask: How much does a second weigh? And this is assuming that there is indeed such a thing as time. Time is a subjective concept, born of man's mind. Man created this concept based on the apparent recurring cycles of the universe. The rise and set of the sun, the predictable return of the solstices, the observable decay of animate matter. 100 mph is in reality 100 mp 1/24th revolution of the Earth on its axis. In a year on the outer planets 20 generations would be born and die within the space of a year. On Mercury a day or night will be forever. One can not run smoke down a chimney and recreate a log, and one can not predict the occurence of an event in the so called "future" There is no such thing as time to contract, dilate, fold all we are left with is distance. The distance to the moon, to Mars, to the Sun from the tip of my nose to the end of my fingers. If time could be dilated, then communications with orbiting shuttles (whizzing at 17,000 mph) would be impossible. As Earth based transmissions would pass them by before they reached our point in time and their transmissions would be received before a request was sent. The answer received before the question was asked. Why do we fall on our knees and worship this man and his theories as though he were a god? To my knowledge they haven't been proved, and all the atomic clock experiments prove is that something affects the rate of decay of the cesium atom. They know that gravitational pull does, for instance, so maybe the proximity of the clocks to the suns gravity will slow down the emission rate as well. These questions are not asked, and no one thinks to ask them, because all that is sought is "proof" of the theory. And there is a lot of reputation, money, research and prestige (not to mention beliefs) wrapped up in proving these theories. Tunnel vision - always finding what ye seek. Sounds like a good definition of modern physics to me. Sorry Zack Lee :) At 10:53 PM 9/17/98 -0500, Zack wrote: >On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Lee Markland wrote: > >> At 09:15 PM 9/16/98 -0230, you wrote: >> >I offer my theory as to the gravitational anomaly as follows: >> > >> > Since there is a body of work describing all electromagnetic radiation >> >as a function of basic static electrical forces and that magnetic and >> >gravitational forces can be described as spin waves. Then the anomaly >> >could be explained as a resultant spin wave gravitational wave resulting >> >from the total mass movement of the solar system. In other words the >> >angular velocity of the spin wave would be equal to the angular velocity >> >of the solar system and the sum of the charges in the rotational masses >> >generates the superimposed positive and negative spin waves. >> >> And might a naive one ask, whence the wave. What effect has been dropped in >> the pond (the medium, and what is that medium in the solar system?) To >> cause a spin wave, do waves Spin? >> >> What medium is there in space to produce a wave? And if there is a wave or >> one can cause a wave in empty, medium less space, then what action causes a >> wave. >> > >I'd highly recommend the book GEOMETRODYNAMICS by John Archibald Wheeler. > >Having read it and other books and papers on QED, I've put together this >concept: Spacetime itself is composed of "locations in space" which move or >jump around in a random fashion (that's right, the locations change relative >to one another on a submicroscopic level). This produces what is referred >to as the ZPE, Zitterbewegung, virtual particle flux, quantum foam, etc. >This co-motion also produces "time". A "wave" is altering the randomness >of this fluctuation to some extent - it is producing correlations in the >randomness. This accomplishes energy flow through the medium. The "aether" >is actually spacetime itself. A wave "waves" spacetime. > >Wheeler outlined calculations in his book which derived value of the >zero-point energy and the "speed of light". > >Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 21:39:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA24445; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:36:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:36:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917134015.00f8fb30@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:40:15 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] In-Reply-To: <3602E7D1.52F7@mlb.planet.gen.nz> References: <3.0.5.32.19980917105000.00fc8460@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980917121852.00fcbcf0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"kKjzi2.0.tz5.WDU0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6459 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks. Actually I have the Matter Myth on my bookcase, haven't cracked it yet, been wading through The Einstein Myth and the Ives Papers. Can I get back to you? Have you in turn availed yourself of Electrogravitic Systems, Reports on a New Propulsion Methodology or Gregory Leo Harrigans, The Great Gravity Myth or Dewey Larson, An explanation of Gravitation (If you have read Larson, please explain it to me - I've got three of his books and they are beyond my kein of comprehension). By the way I don't think particles are fuzzy and indistinct, but neither do I think there are any particles other than atoms and electrons. all of the rest of the stuff like Neutrons (made up to account for weight) Protons (made up because of the belief in polarity) photons to account for the photovoltaic effect, dark matter to account for the fact that the universe doesn't have enough theoretical mass to comply with the theory of mass gravity, neutrinos, rainbows, quarks, snowflakes, sweets, charms and the whole zoology of sub atomic particles are made up stuff because the theory is not confirmed by observation, and rather than revisit theory, they just create new particles and given them a value (constant). And we slip further and further into the hole. Lee At 04:08 PM 9/18/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: > >> >> Thanks, kind of ambiguous on that theory, although I am aware of the work >> of Silvertooth and Marinov. >> >> Still in all, if Michelson and Morely were wrong, and there is an aether. >> Does that mean that it is the SOURCE of all waves. >> > >Big snip > >The following is from an article that expresses my own view on the matter far >better than I ever could myself. > >Can you see any genuine fallacy in any of the concepts presented ? > >It seems to me that it expresses an eminently rational view. And one that >clearly describes a graduation of substance, or 'Aether', in a manner that >also explains the major problem of "action at a distance", including perhaps >that of gravitational "attraction"....:-) > > >"........anything which is absolutely indivisible -- whether we call it a >particle of matter or a quantum of energy -- would be entirely homogeneous >and inflexible. But how can something of this nature take part in >interactions with other physical entities? If we apply a force to it, the >force must cause deformation and be transmitted through the internal >structure of the entity. But if it was truly homogeneous it would have no >internal structure, there would be no deformation, and the force applied >would have to pass instantaneously (infinitely fast) to the other side. Since >this is impossible, everything must be composite and divisible. It might be >countered that the concept of elasticity does not apply to particles as >understood by modern physics, which are described as fuzzy and indistinct, a >"ghostly melee of half-forms," which can be understood only in terms of >mathematical abstractions. (The Matter Myth, p. 141.) But this is merely an >evasion. Either these ghostly entities are entirely homogeneous and >undeformable, in which case they are pure abstractions and exist only on >paper, or they are inhomogeneous and deformable, in which case they must be >divisible. > >Bohm points out that arguments on whether matter is fundamentally discrete or >continuous go back to the ancient Greeks, and at first sight the two points >of view appear to be incompatible. > > However, on closer investigation it would appear that any theory of the >continuous nature of matter can in fact be based upon an opposing theory >involving discrete matter that is so fine as to have never manifested its >nature up to the present time. Conversely, any theory of the discontinuous >structure of matter can be explained as arising through the localization and >concentration of a continuous background. -- Science, Order & Creativity, pp. >72-3 > >Physical particles can therefore be thought of as concentrations of an >underlying, continuous ether. But the ether is only relatively continuous. >Further analysis would show that it, too, is discontinuous, and these >particle-like discontinuities would be concentrations of a deeper, subtler >ether, which in turn is relatively continuous, but actually consists of even >finer particles, which are in turn concentrations of an even subtler ether, >and so on, ad infinitum. Thus as we move from our own distance scale beyond >the Planck scale towards the infinitesimal, there is no reason to suppose >that an absolutely bottom level of matter, consisting of absolutely >homogeneous particles, will ever be reached. Between the two abstract limits >of the infinite and the infinitesimal, there is a limitless number of >concrete, finite systems -- atoms, planets, stars, galaxies, etc.........." > >Unquote: > >SR > >-- >============================= >S. N. Rae, >Blenheim, NEW ZEALAND. >mailto:srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 22:00:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA01540; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:59:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:59:12 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EM wave pressure, Joes Demo Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 05:00:25 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3605e8a7.172513721@mail-hub> References: <00ae01bde2b0$52eb0f60$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> In-Reply-To: <00ae01bde2b0$52eb0f60$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_dHAE.0.-N.WYU0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6460 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:51:24 -0400, Bill Wallace wrote: [snip] >Ok, what do you suggest I feed to the goose, or why even limit ourselves to >geese, I am always open for suggestions, perhaps there is a certain strain >of bacteria or fish or lizard out there that when put on lead digests it and >excretes gold, how would one go about finding this out however? Why stop at >gold, why not include all the ways that coal can be crushed to make a >diamond, certainly with a high magnetic field you could create enough >pressure couldn't you? [snip] Why bother, there is already a variety of kelp that concentrates gold from sea water? :> Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 22:27:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA11579; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:25:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:25:38 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809180526.WAA04995@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: TRANSFORMER MATERIALS Resent-Message-ID: <"RjZfD1.0.rq2.HxU0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6461 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Patrick and all, At 08:33 PM 9/16/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, > >I would like to know, transformers are mostly made with silicon steel >laminations. > >If instead it would be made with NEODYM Rare Earth magnetic materials used >to make powerfull rare earth magnets, could we make a more powerfull >transformer by using those materials instead of silicon steel. > The magnet material would be already "saturated", so not respond as much as the Si steel to the AC field. That is, they have a lower effective permeability. Of course there would be a strong magnetic bias from these permanent magnet. The AC field would have to be very strong to switch the magnet's field, that is, it would have to demagnetize and magnetize the rare earth magnets in the opposite direction every 1/2 cycle. You can also view the AC field adding to the magnet's on one 1/2 cycle and opposing it on the other. However the rare earth magnets are pretty stiff, with an (moderate) opposing H field, their B field doesn't change much. This is what "saturation" means in this case. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 17 23:46:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA02635; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:45:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:45:43 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809180646.XAA19005@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: EM wave pressure, Joes Demo Resent-Message-ID: <"1Wp6k2.0.le.N6W0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6462 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob, Lee and all, At 10:11 PM 9/16/98 -0700, Bob Shannon wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: > > > >> Let's see what we know for sure. >> >> Light is the visible portion of the EM spectrum. >> Light is reflected off of a white surface (reason why cops paint the roofs >> of their cars white and a white car is much more comfortable to sit in in >> the mid day sun). >> The EM spectrum will bounce off objects dependent on the frequency. (Radar). >> Maybe the black painted vanes absorb the frequency of light, and the white >> painted vanes reflect it and the frequency of white light bouncing off the >> white painted vanes pushes the vane and makes it spin. >> The white or reflective side moves _toward_ the light. >> Lee Markland > >Try this experiment, and then lets see what we know for sure: > >Take a radiometer, and observe how quickly it turns under a good >desklamp. > >Find the glass tip where the radiometer was partially evacuated. Note >that I say partially here, the pressure inside that glass bulb is very >important. > I found this interesting article on how it works - not just heating of the gas by the dark plates. On my radiometer the vanes are thin aluminum, so am not sure how much of a temp. difference would be maintained. The emmissivity of the 2 sides is of course much different. http://physics.hallym.ac.kr/education/faq/light-mill.html By the way, if light is incident only on a dark side, by using an opaque mask with a hole, the vanes still rotate. Or using a HeNe laser. I haven't been able to find the optimum pressure, yet. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 01:25:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA25252; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:24:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:24:28 -0700 Message-ID: <004801bde2dd$de85c380$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Atomic particles Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:24:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"vcZTr2.0.UA6.xYX0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6463 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee and All -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland >By the way I don't think particles are fuzzy and indistinct, but neither do >I think there are any particles other than atoms and electrons. all of the >rest of the stuff like Neutrons (made up to account for weight) Protons >(made up because of the belief in polarity) photons to account for the >photovoltaic effect, dark matter to account for the fact that the universe >doesn't have enough theoretical mass to comply with the theory of mass >gravity, neutrinos, rainbows, quarks, snowflakes, sweets, charms and the >whole zoology of sub atomic particles are made up stuff because the theory >is not confirmed by observation, and rather than revisit theory, they just >create new particles and given them a value (constant). We have photographs of the trails left by some of the particles mentioned above from particle accelerators. Atoms are comprised of at least of protons and electrons. Without protons we could not have a positively charged atom, which means all the well tried and tested chemistry maths wouldn't work. A lot of the other particles do seem to get invented to explain empirical anomalies, and sometimes given a 'constant' value. The given constants always seem to not fit somewhere else in empirical physics. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 04:40:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA23970; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:37:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:37:23 -0700 Message-ID: <003801bde2f8$d8cca920$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Special Water, Colloidal Silver etc Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:54:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"AW--Y2.0.Ns5.oNa0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6464 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All A recent report in New Scientist (12 Sep 1998) details the use of gold and silver compounds to kill cancer cells. (Susan Berners-Price and her team at Griffith University in Brisbane Australia, and Mark McKeage of the University of Auckland in New Zealand) The positively charged gold and silver compounds can cross the mitochondrial membrane of a cell, allowing the compound to disrupt the mitochondria, the energy producing mechanism of the cell. Disruption of the mitochondria leads to rapid cell death. IMHO, drinking silver suspensions that probably contain some silver compounds could be a risky thing. We need to better examine effects on healthy human cells as well as the effect on pathogens. Aluminium compounds are already believed to damage neuron's. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 04:47:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA24417; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:46:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:46:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003901bde2f8$d9a555e0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Is Gravity Broken Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:06:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"p1L-r1.0.Rz5.KWa0s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6465 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Bill and All -----Original Message----- From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 >1) How was the distance traveled determined? > (A) Actual position measurement by the probe. > (B) Or calculated by the time it takes the signal to get there & back. > >If (B) then how do we really know that the probe is being slowed and not the >signal being sped up, or not being slowed down as the case may be? They are measuring the deceleration rate using the Doppler shift of the radio signals. The deceleration rate is 80 billionth's of a centimetre per second squared out from the theory, which would take a car travelling at 60km/h 650 years to stop. They have been trying to identify the cause for some four years so it must be big enough an error to them at least. I say modify the theory! ;-} The same effects are occurring on other probes, all travelling in different directions. They have ruled out many causes including gravity from other objects. I hope they have checked the accuracy of the system performing the calculation :-) Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 04:46:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA26681; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:45:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:45:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3602463E.1F13CC47@harti.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:38:39 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-list , Evan Soule Subject: Re: Report from Donny Appelbaum, new Newman motor efficiency ?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uzqS83.0.pW6.yUa0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6466 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: > >Hi Evan > > > >Could you ask Joe/Donny what type of meter was used to measure the input > >current? > > > >Best regards > > > >David Callaghan > > >Dear Evan, > > > >I didn't examine the meter closely, but it looked like a multi-meter like > >you would buy a Radio Shack. It was set on the AMP setting and measured > >the current draw by the motor on the battery pack. > > > >Best Regards > >Donny Appelbaum > Hi Evan and Donny, thanks for the recent report about you wittnessing the new Newman motor in action. Well, it really needs to be measured via a dynamometer or a prony break. Otherwise you really don4t have any real idea, how much power the new motor puts out... Have you ever tried to bicycle a generator which was connected to a 100 Watts bulb ? Man, you really have to bike very fast and hard to get the bulb lightning at least a bit. I bet, you can NOT hold the bicycle wheel shaft , when I peddle to generate these 100 Watts of mechanical power ! So, if the new Newman motor would be say 95 % efficient in mechanical output versus electrical input, you have 190 Watts of mechanical power at the shaft and I bet, you really can4t stop that with your hands and some gloves... So now all depends on a real good dynamometer test and I hope this will be done soon. If it will not be done during the next 2 months, Newman will loose many more supporters, cause everybody will say, he is not showing a dynamometer test, cause the motor is not OU.... So I hope he will soon publically show a dynamometer test, which finally proves, that he is right... Just my point of view.. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 05:06:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA32093; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 05:04:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 05:04:59 -0700 Message-ID: <36024B26.F7128A74@harti.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:59:34 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , freenrg-l , Evan Soule Subject: Re: ***NEWMAN*** Re: Newman's motor References: <36018C3D.6447@technologist.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uabtK2.0.Ir7.gna0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6468 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Brian Snyder wrote: > > Dear Brian, > > > > I am assuming that you will contract with Joe prior to initiating > > production of his technology. > > > > Evan > > > > Evan, > Of course I would.... Im not out to steal his technology like > others......I just think that its taken long enough to get this out and > I am one that makes things happen and I am very disturbed that Joe hasnt > acheived a wherehouse full of these motor/generators in the past few > months.Especially with all the money he has raised.... > > Brian > Hi Brian, I guess, you should go ahead and do your own motors now and pay Joe some royalities, if they work... I guess 5 % is okay ?? Maybe you can give this 5 % to a "Joe Newman charity fond" and with this money only charity things would be financed. Maybe I should do the same over here... Good luck ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 05:06:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA32135; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 05:05:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 05:05:03 -0700 Message-ID: <36024A4C.48E50701@harti.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:55:56 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , "Doyle P. Henderson" , freenrg-l , Evan Soule Subject: Re: (Newman demo)MinnKoto trolling motor specs ?? References: <3.0.32.19980917150616.006b840c@bigbear.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bc5Dz2.0._r7.kna0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6469 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Doyle P. Henderson wrote: > > > > >Points well made, John. I would like to know if anybody got a close-up > look at > >the motor, especially inside. From Doyle's photo, it looks like the copper > coil > >is concentric with the rotating shaft. In a Newman machine the shaft is > >supposed to be transverse to the coil, unless there is some kind of transaxle > >gearbox inside. I could be interpreting the photo wrong, so does anyone > who saw > >the motor close up have a better description of the coils in relation to the > >shaft axis? > > > >-RJB > > > > RJB, et al, bear in mind that Joe has had the Minn-Kota motor > for a long time.... many months.... and may have "learned > something" from examining and testing it... So, comparing the > motor on display in Phoenix to his earlier designs may not be > meaningful.... And, I hardly blame him for not discussing > his latest ideas/changes after what all has happened to him. > > It is even possible that he may have scaled the trolling motor > design up in size/capacity to produce enough power for the > average home... I don't mean to be insulting or to infer > anything from stating that possibility... > > Is there any test report available on this Minn-Kota trolling motor ? What is its efficiency ? Was it ever tested and are the results somewhere available ? Do they have a data sheet at Minn-Kota about this motor ? Does it really have more than 100 % efficiency from mechanical output versus electrical input, or do the batteries just last longer due to the pulsed input ? Did anybody from this list buy one and examined it closely ? As I heard Dr. Roger Hasting or his brother were involved in designing this motor, so they should have learned from the Newman technology and do not pay license fees to Newman.... So Newman is a bit "freaked" out about stealing his technology without paying royalities... I can understand that, but I really want to see a test report of the trolling motor. Anybody knows ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 05:07:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA31890; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 05:04:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 05:04:00 -0700 Message-ID: <36024E75.863E85B2@servtech.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:13:42 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Good bye Maxwell-Einstein-Field Theories... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1_MCR2.0.Bo7.mma0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6467 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From the comments I am reading, it doesn't sound like many people here have read or heard about Graneau's work in Ampere, Neumann electrodynamics. It has been repeated shown that *in metals* Maxwell-Einstein Field theories do not hold. This is shown *experimentally* over and over again. (Maxwell-Einstein Field theories seem to work o.k. (so far) only when you consider a single charged particle moving in vacuum, which is not the case in metals, plasma, liquid metals). Please read "Newtonian Electrodynamics" by Drs. Peter and Neal Graneau. Or check out the article in summer issue of 21st Century Magizine, "Simulation of Amperian Current Elements by Magnetic Toroids" pp. 55 by Thomas Phipps and Jorge Guala Valverde. They give a very good experiment description anyone can do to show that Ampere's ponderomotive force equation's angular orientation is the correct relation, not anything from Maxwell-Einstein electrodynamics. In my opinion, for what little it might be worth, if your not up on Ampere Electrodynamics, your not up on the "latest", *experimental* results in electrodynamics. (Note that Ampere-Neumann electrodynamics includes induction, so those people interested in electromagnetic induction should look into Ampere Electromagnetics.) Personally, I have had enough of the Field *Theories* for a while. I'll spend my time working with experimental results. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 07:30:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09500; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:24:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:24:40 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <792a113a.36026cda@aol.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:23:22 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: The N-ZPF Motor v1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"1uHiq3.0.LK2.dqc0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6470 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, I have updated my web site with a new interesting device, this is the N-ZPF Motor v1.0. This ZPF Motor is based on the Trouton-Noble experiment that I have performed on April 24th, 1998. The Trouton-Noble experiment was intended to detect the motion of the earth through the aether: When a freely suspended parallel plate capacitor is charged at high voltage, it turns "spontaneously" so as to minimize its total energy, and seek a stable position parallel to the direction of motion of the earth through the aether (the Zero Point Field). When the voltage is applied with my Wimshurst machine the rotor (the capacitor) begins to turn counter-clockwise (whichever of the HV polarities) at about 10 RPM. Until now, the effect of polarity reversal was ignored. As a result, the capacitor behaves like a simple waterwheel in the aether.... You will find all pictures and diagram at : http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/zpfmotor.htm Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 07:32:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA10841; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:27:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:27:43 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980918094344.00cbda4c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:43:44 +0000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Good bye Maxwell-Einstein-Field Theories... Resent-Message-ID: <"H7hoX3.0.If2.Utc0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6471 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Maxwell's equations are really a simplification of the original theory. Oliver Heavyside left out many of the quaternions Maxwell originally used to define the theory. Only the 1873 first edition (and presumably second edition) of "Treatise on Electric and Magnetic Fields has all of Maxwell's quaternions. Enterprisemission.com is attempting to make the first edition available. At 08:13 AM 9/18/98 -0400, you wrote: >>From the comments I am reading, it doesn't sound like >many people here have read or heard about Graneau's >work in Ampere, Neumann electrodynamics. > >It has been repeated shown that *in metals* Maxwell-Einstein Field >theories do not hold. This is shown *experimentally* over and over >again. >(Maxwell-Einstein Field theories seem to work o.k. (so far) only when >you consider a single charged particle moving in vacuum, which is not >the >case in metals, plasma, liquid metals). Does Maxwell's complete theory better take into account these other conditions? Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 08:34:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02871; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:30:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:30:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bde319$5e2c6fe0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: "Stefan Hartmann" , Subject: Re: Report from Donny Appelbaum, new Newman motor efficiency ?? Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:02:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"nd3ZE1.0.Zi.Nod0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6472 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stefan and All -----Original Message----- From: Stefan Hartmann >So, if the new Newman motor would be say 95 % efficient in mechanical output >versus >electrical input, you have 190 Watts of mechanical power at the shaft and >I bet, you really can't stop that with your hands and some gloves... I tried slowing a 100W DC motor through a 25:1 reduction gearbox. Disregarding the inefficiency of the gearbox, even a fairly moderate grip on the shaft increased the input current. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 08:46:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA09034; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:44:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:44:09 -0700 Message-ID: <36027D8D.85F3D6F0@harti.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:34:37 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: "Stefan Hartmann" , David Callaghan , newman-list Subject: Re: Report from Donny Appelbaum, new Newman motor efficiency ?? References: <000001bde319$5e2c6fe0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LPd761.0._C2.9_d0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6474 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David Callaghan wrote: > Hi Stefan and All > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stefan Hartmann > >So, if the new Newman motor would be say 95 % efficient in mechanical > output > >versus > >electrical input, you have 190 Watts of mechanical power at the shaft and > >I bet, you really can't stop that with your hands and some gloves... > > I tried slowing a 100W DC motor through a 25:1 reduction gearbox. > Disregarding the inefficiency of the gearbox, even a fairly moderate grip on > the shaft increased the input current. > > Best regards > > David Callaghan > Hi David, the input current can not be raised in a Newman type motor, when it is already at the Volts/DC resistance level ! So when a Newman motor is standing still it also can not burn out the windings ! That is a big plus in safety ! Due to the high ohmic resistnace of the coil the input current can not go higher... But when the motor runs, due to the counter EMF of the magnets the input current should be at least 1/10 of the end current value ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 08:46:39 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA08236; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:41:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:41:31 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01bde31a$ef9c61a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: BBC recognition Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:42:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Iux7F1.0.c02.hyd0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6473 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Everyone I've just visited the BBC's Tomorrows World web site on: http://www.bbc.co.uk/tw/previous/ff6.shtml They have Bill Beatie's site and Stefan's site listed. Also they have a few words about Graneau, Tesla and Griggs. I'm just amazed to see any of this on the BBC! Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 10:51:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA30954; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:46:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:46:35 -0700 Message-ID: <36029C3D.E73ECCBC@bway.net> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:45:33 -0400 From: Khem Caigan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Special Water, Colloidal Silver etc References: <003801bde2f8$d8cca920$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7jqP11.0.ZZ7.wnf0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6475 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David Callaghan wrote: > IMHO, drinking silver suspensions that probably contain some silver > compounds could be a risky thing. We need to better examine effects > on healthy human cells as well as the effect on pathogens. Aluminium > compounds are already believed to damage neuron's. No question that the metallic compounds used in cancer treatments are toxic. The idea seems one of killing off as many cells as possible, in hopes that enough healthy cells remain to keep the show going. But colloidal silver is NOT a compound. It's pretty sensitive, so I don't advise folks to get any of the products marketed as such. I've been making & imbibing it for three years now, using water I distil at home, a hot plate/magnetic stirrer & .99999 fine silver electrodes. More info on the history & use of the stuff may be found in a little booklet published by Healing Wisdom Publications, New York, NY 10023, authored by Zane Baranowski, ISBN 0-9647080-1-9, entitled 'Colloidal Silver: The Natural Antibiotic Alternative'. Khem Caigan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 10:54:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA00262; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:50:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:50:36 -0700 Message-ID: <36029F9E.69D18A5E@servtech.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:59:59 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Good bye Maxwell-Einstein-Field Theories... References: <1.5.4.32.19980918094344.00cbda4c@popd.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kWI2q.0.R3.frf0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6476 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dennis C. Lee wrote: > Maxwell's equations are really a simplification of the original theory. > Oliver Heavyside left out many of the quaternions Maxwell originally used to > define the theory. Only the 1873 first edition (and presumably second > edition) of "Treatise on Electric and Magnetic Fields has all of Maxwell's > quaternions. Enterprisemission.com is attempting to make the first edition > available. > > At 08:13 AM 9/18/98 -0400, you wrote: > >>From the comments I am reading, it doesn't sound like > >many people here have read or heard about Graneau's > >work in Ampere, Neumann electrodynamics. > > > >It has been repeated shown that *in metals* Maxwell-Einstein Field > >theories do not hold. This is shown *experimentally* over and over > >again. > >(Maxwell-Einstein Field theories seem to work o.k. (so far) only when > >you consider a single charged particle moving in vacuum, which is not > >the > >case in metals, plasma, liquid metals). > > Does Maxwell's complete theory better take into account these other conditions? I don't think so. The problem is the definition of the current element. But then, I am not familar with Maxwell's original equations. > > > Tall Ships > http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 11:08:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA07115; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:05:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:05:11 -0700 Message-ID: <36029EAC.F261DFCF@harti.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:55:56 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: newman-list , freenrg-l , Evan Soule Subject: Newman sueing Minn Kota or maybe vice versa ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3cKeZ.0.5l1.N3g0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6477 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, if Joe wants to sue Minn Kota for stealing his technology, then he must probably have tested their motors. What is he claiming for an efficiency of the Minn Kota motors ? What does he say how much efficient the claimed "stoolen tech" motor is ? I bet, he can only sue them, if he has a proof, that the Minn Kota motor is really OU ?? So what and how has he measured its efficiency ? Maybe also Joe has just built a larger "Minn Kota" type motor as his latest "production" model, so maybe also Minn Kota will sue him back ??? Just a thought by looking at the trollingmotors.com WEB site and seeing how the Minn Kota motors look alike.... Joes4s new motor looks astoundingly simular , just a bit longer... I wonder, why he had such a small diameter and did not make it bigger ?? Always bigger diameter means more torque and more output power...I bet.. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 11:39:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA23344; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:36:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:36:29 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:46:26 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Another update: Resent-Message-ID: <"Y11KX2.0.Oi5.hWg0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6478 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Another update: Joe's motor is now drawing only 100 milliamps while the rpms remain c. 100; the motor still cannot be 'choked down' and the current does not go up when such an attempt is made. ERS From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 12:21:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA08286; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:18:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:18:59 -0700 From: dtmiller@mcleodusa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Special Water, Colloidal Silver etc Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:20:04 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@mcleodusa.net Message-ID: <36029dce.1478993@mail.mcleodusa.net> References: <003801bde2f8$d8cca920$96d2989e@david-callaghan> In-Reply-To: <003801bde2f8$d8cca920$96d2989e@david-callaghan> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id MAA08203 Resent-Message-ID: <"hI8Ox2.0.H12.Y8h0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6479 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi David, On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:54:13 +0100, you wrote: >IMHO, drinking silver suspensions that probably contain some silver >compounds could be a risky thing. We need to better examine effects on >healthy human cells as well as the effect on pathogens. Aluminium compounds >are already believed to damage neuron's. The use of colloidal silver has been extensively tested and there's plenty of anecdotal information (silverware has been around a long time). Look up "colloidal silver generators" on the WWW for the info. [I use a colloidal silver generator and the 5 ppm output seems effective for a wide range of situations, including killing surface bacteria that produces my son's acne, allowing an ulcerated sore on my cat's cheek to heal and getting rid of some types of fungus on my outdoor plants.] -- Dean -- from Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 12:24:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA08930; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:20:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:20:39 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917041106.00f98a60@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 04:11:06 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Special Water, Colloidal Silver etc In-Reply-To: <003801bde2f8$d8cca920$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"TC1DB.0.BB2.5Ah0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6481 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The following is a response from my friend Neil Freer (http://www.concentric.net/~freer1 Author: Breaking the Godspell. Neil has followed the monoatomic rubidium gold issue and David Hudson as well. Here is the exchange: Lee Markland wrote: > > Below has to do with monoatomic gold. Lee > > it supposedly killed some lady in Arizona, bacterial contamination or > something. she had cancer and was about to die anyway. > (I got these links from bill b. site) Yep, that story has been around quite some time. Can't tell whether he messed up or whether the medical techs and doctors in the hospital she was in deliberately tried to discredit him --- although the latter seems very possibly the truth. Neil MY COMMENT: How do we sort it out. Is their the usual AMA protectivism here? Lee At 11:54 AM 9/18/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi All > >A recent report in New Scientist (12 Sep 1998) details the use of gold and >silver compounds to kill cancer cells. (Susan Berners-Price and her team at >Griffith University in Brisbane Australia, and Mark McKeage of the >University of Auckland in New Zealand) > >The positively charged gold and silver compounds can cross the mitochondrial >membrane of a cell, allowing the compound to disrupt the mitochondria, the >energy producing mechanism of the cell. Disruption of the mitochondria >leads to rapid cell death. > >IMHO, drinking silver suspensions that probably contain some silver >compounds could be a risky thing. We need to better examine effects on >healthy human cells as well as the effect on pathogens. Aluminium compounds >are already believed to damage neuron's. > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 12:25:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA08796; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:20:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:20:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917034827.00f75a10@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:48:27 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Atomic particles In-Reply-To: <004801bde2dd$de85c380$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hVW1X1.0.K92.z9h0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6480 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:24 AM 9/18/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee and All > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >>By the way I don't think particles are fuzzy and indistinct, but neither do >>I think there are any particles other than atoms and electrons. all of the >>rest of the stuff like Neutrons (made up to account for weight) Protons >>(made up because of the belief in polarity) photons to account for the >>photovoltaic effect, dark matter to account for the fact that the universe >>doesn't have enough theoretical mass to comply with the theory of mass >>gravity, neutrinos, rainbows, quarks, snowflakes, sweets, charms and the >>whole zoology of sub atomic particles are made up stuff because the theory >>is not confirmed by observation, and rather than revisit theory, they just >>create new particles and given them a value (constant). > > >We have photographs of the trails left by some of the particles mentioned >above from particle accelerators. Atoms are comprised of at least of >protons and electrons. Without protons we could not have a positively >charged atom, which means all the well tried and tested chemistry maths >wouldn't work. > >A lot of the other particles do seem to get invented to explain empirical >anomalies, and sometimes given a 'constant' value. The given constants >always seem to not fit somewhere else in empirical physics. > >Best regards > >David Callaghan Thanks David, but don't you mean we have trails which we call protons or something else. What does a proton have to do with chemistry anyway? And my point was that the concept of neutrons was invented to give weight to mass, and thus with a neutron and the concept of polarity THERE HAD TO BE A PROTON. My hunch is that you back out the neutrons and protons, you can still get the stuff to work. That the concepts are unnecessary and only exist because of belief in mass gravity. Has anyone approached it from that angle. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 12:46:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18904; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:43:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:43:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3602B59E.75309ECF@harti.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:33:51 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , freenrg-l , Evan Soule Subject: Re: Another update: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"44T1z3.0.2d4.6Vh0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6482 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: > Another update: > > Joe's motor is now drawing only 100 milliamps while the rpms remain c. 100; > the motor still cannot be 'choked down' and the current does not go up when > such an attempt is made. > > ERS > So it seems the coils all together inside the new Newman motor must have about: 110Volts / 2 Amp= 55 Ohm DC resistance ? (45 Kg copper at 1.6 mm diameter...) Now when the motor turns at 100 rpm the input current goes down to 100 milliamps due to the counter EMF generated by the rotating magnets... Am I right ? BTW, 100 rpm is pretty slow for such a motor, I wonder if it can4t run faster at this input voltage ! Or is the motor not yet setup right and has got too much friction ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 12:57:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25035; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:54:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:54:59 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:04:58 -0600 To: freenrg-l From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Another update: Resent-Message-ID: <"Ubqvp1.0.576.Igh0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6483 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Evan Soule wrote: > >> Another update: >> >> Joe's motor is now drawing only 100 milliamps while the rpms remain c. 100; >> the motor still cannot be 'choked down' and the current does not go up when >> such an attempt is made. >> >> ERS >> > >So it seems the coils all together inside the new Newman motor >must have about: > >110Volts / 2 Amp= 55 Ohm DC resistance ? > >(45 Kg copper at 1.6 mm diameter...) > >Now when the motor turns at 100 rpm the input current goes down to 100 >milliamps due to the counter EMF generated by the rotating magnets... > >Am I right ? > >BTW, 100 rpm is pretty slow for such a motor, I wonder if it can4t run faster >at this input voltage ! Or is the motor not yet setup right and has got too >much friction ? > > >Regards, Stefan. > > >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com >Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net Stefan, Your above statement regarding the counter EMF is a reasonable supposition which, given the nature of the technology, sounds correct to me. In speaking with Darryl Bonz in Michigan this afternoon (who was in Phoenix earlier and spoke w/Joe & studied the new Motor), he believes that because the shaft is bent, the rpms cannot get much higher than 100. I have no idea at this time if Joe and Milt can correct this problem. Sincerely, Evan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 13:06:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29180; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:03:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:03:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3602B963.653F4301@harti.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:49:55 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: Newman-L Mailing List , freenrg-l , Evan Soule Subject: Re: Another update: References: <3602B59E.75309ECF@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: josephnewman@earthlink.net Resent-Message-ID: <"ikIYi3.0.l77.6oh0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6484 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Evan Soule wrote: > > > Another update: > > > > Joe's motor is now drawing only 100 milliamps while the rpms remain c. 100; > > the motor still cannot be 'choked down' and the current does not go up when > > such an attempt is made. > > > > ERS > > > > So it seems the coils all together inside the new Newman motor > must have about: > > 110Volts / 2 Amp= 55 Ohm DC resistance ? > > (45 Kg copper at 1.6 mm diameter...) > > Now when the motor turns at 100 rpm the input current goes down to 100 > milliamps due to the counter EMF generated by the rotating magnets... > > Am I right ? > > BTW, 100 rpm is pretty slow for such a motor, I wonder if it can4t run faster > at this input voltage ! Or is the motor not yet setup right and has got too > much friction ? > > Regards, Stefan. > I wanted to add: Now 110 Volts x 0.1 Amp = 11 Watts of DC input power Now if Joe can turn a generator with it and at least light ONE 100 Watts bulb very brightly I am convinced ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 13:33:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA10131; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:27:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:27:27 -0700 Message-ID: <3602C08D.66BE659C@harti.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:20:29 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: newman-list , Evan Soule , freenrg-l Subject: Re: Another update: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ms15T3.0.BU2.j8i0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6485 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: > > > > Stefan, > > Your above statement regarding the counter EMF is a reasonable supposition > which, given the nature of the technology, sounds correct to me. > > In speaking with Darryl Bonz in Michigan this afternoon (who was in Phoenix > earlier and spoke w/Joe & studied the new Motor), he believes that because > the shaft is bent, the rpms cannot get much higher than 100. I have no idea > at this time if Joe and Milt can correct this problem. I see, thanks for the info. If it is that problem that it runs so slow, I hope they can solve the problem by straigthening the shaft again and fix it. Best regards, Stefan. > > > > > Sincerely, Evan > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 14:35:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA01239; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:22:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:22:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917044720.00f974f0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 04:47:20 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Special Water, Colloidal Silver etc In-Reply-To: <003801bde2f8$d8cca920$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"G-F9y1.0.GJ.Jyi0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6486 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David: I thought that MtDNA was non functional, a useless leftover from some viral invasion, and its only use was to trace descent, through the female line, thus it is used to validate the Eve (common mother) hypotheses. Other than that I've been led to believe it serves no other purpose. Lee At 11:54 AM 9/18/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi All > >A recent report in New Scientist (12 Sep 1998) details the use of gold and >silver compounds to kill cancer cells. (Susan Berners-Price and her team at >Griffith University in Brisbane Australia, and Mark McKeage of the >University of Auckland in New Zealand) > >The positively charged gold and silver compounds can cross the mitochondrial >membrane of a cell, allowing the compound to disrupt the mitochondria, the >energy producing mechanism of the cell. Disruption of the mitochondria >leads to rapid cell death. > >IMHO, drinking silver suspensions that probably contain some silver >compounds could be a risky thing. We need to better examine effects on >healthy human cells as well as the effect on pathogens. Aluminium compounds >are already believed to damage neuron's. > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 14:54:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA17209; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:49:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:49:13 -0700 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:47:47 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:50:19 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:35:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Colloidal Silver, special water, cell death. In-reply-to: <2.2.32.19980910003653.006a168c@mail.wincom.net> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E1742ZXOLPF4A8 X400-MTS-identifier: [;74747181908991/3232384@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"3y6-k3.0.oC4.OLj0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6487 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Someone wrote: >There are some monks that live somewhere in the mountains (low oxygen), eat >small but varied meals, do moderate exercise and meditate/pray. Not a very >stressful existence. Their average life expectancy is above 100! Someone else wrote: >A recent report in New Scientist (12 Sep 1998) details the use of gold and >silver compounds to kill cancer cells. (Susan Berners-Price and her team at >Griffith University in Brisbane Australia, and Mark McKeage of the >University of Auckland in New Zealand) >The positively charged gold and silver compounds can cross the mitochondrial >membrane of a cell, allowing the compound to disrupt the mitochondria, the >energy producing mechanism of the cell. Disruption of the mitochondria >leads to rapid cell death. >IMHO, drinking silver suspensions that probably contain some silver >compounds could be a risky thing. We need to better examine effects on >healthy human cells as well as the effect on pathogens. Aluminium compounds >are already believed to damage neuron's. How does a few thousand years of human testing sound. Actually there are about 5 or 6 known groups of very long lived people, scattered across the planet. The biggest thing they have in common is that their primary source of water is glacier melt. This stuff has a very high mineral content. They drink it, but more importantly they irrigate their crops with it. Minerals that animals, and us, receive into our systems come in four forms. 1) Rock mineral, the basic raw stuff, we can only absorb between 3-12% depending on our age and metabolism. The vast majority of mineral products on the market today fall into this category. (Tums) 2) Chelated minerals, these have an amino acid wrapped around it, the average absorption rate is up around 45%. 3) Colloidal minerals (inorganic), these are minerals that have been pulled out of the ground (rock mineral, shale, clays, etc.). Ground up real fine, and often sold in liquid suspension. Because of there size they are absorbed somewhat more than normal rock mineral. But they are still just rock minerals, and the human body just isn't built to use minerals in this form. (Chewed on any good rocks lately?) Many of which can be toxic. 4) Organic Colloidal minerals have been absorbed by a plant and wrapped in an organic component. This is the same process that chelation is trying to duplicate. They have about a 95% absorption rate. The human metabolism knows what to do with the minerals in this form, this is how we used to get minerals into our diet. But the important major & trace minerals that we need have been depleted from our soils for a long time. The plants can't pull up what has already been removed. The only 3 minerals farmers are adding back into the soil are in NPK type fertilizers (Nitrogen, Phosphorus & Potash). In the Organic Colloidal form, even minerals that would normally be harmful in the metallic form, the body knows how to deal with. Any minerals in this form not used by or body are excreted in about 8 hours in our urine. In fact some studies show that that they actually help remove the harmful inorganic minerals that the body doesn't want. I have been using these products for just a few months, but I have already seen major improvements. Such as joint problems, among others, that the traditional medical experts say that I'll just have to learn to live with. Reference http://www.American-Longevity.com/pure.html (Sure there is a lot of sales hype, but good basic information as well.) Dean wrote: >The use of colloidal silver has been extensively tested and there's >plenty of anecdotal information (silverware has been around a long >time). Look up "colloidal silver generators" on the WWW for the info. >[I use a colloidal silver generator and the 5 ppm output seems >effective for a wide range of situations, including killing surface >bacteria that produces my son's acne, allowing an ulcerated sore on my >cat's cheek to heal and getting rid of some types of fungus on my >outdoor plants.] > -- Dean -- from Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) Silver has been known for a long time to inhibit the ability of a cell to reproduce, not to kill it but to keep it from growing. Which considering the short lifespan of many infectious organisms, if the silver is present longer than the bacteria can reproduce, the next generation can't take it's place let alone spread. Some of the better water filter companies add silver to the carbon filtration media to keep bacteria from growing in their devices. But they are careful not to say that it kills the bacteria, because strictly speaking it doesn't. But as long as the carbon can trap it, and the silver keeps it from multiplying it amounts to the same thing. However the carbon media does eventually get clogged from all the gunk (technical term) that it has been pulling out of the water, and the bacteria bearing water just slides past. Which is why the silver bearing filters still need to be replaced, just not as often. Question, does silvadine ointment/cream contain silver. It is a prescription drug generally used to treat sores, burns and frostbite. William E. Briggs Jr. webriggs@concentric.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 15:22:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA00296; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:20:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:20:25 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:08:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Message-ID: <19980918.151803.3518.0.tv@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-13,15-18,20-24 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"Dgqs-3.0.U4.eoj0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6488 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I believe there may be something to the Newman motor based on my observations of Leon Dragone's work and more recently the excellant work of Jean-Louis Naudin. Both of these researchers reported observing a small but signifcant cooling effect. Leon reported 2 degree F drop (1.1 C) and Jean-Louis Naudin about 0.3 C.. I have yet to find a satisfactory conventional explanation so that was why I proposed the Transient Electron Coherence hypothesis. It seems to me that it might be wise attempt an experiment in which the goal is to verify and optimize the cooling effect Jean-Louis, did you you try to observe the cooiling effect on the Newman motor again ? What were your results ? I just noticed that your Newman web pages cannot be accessed at this time. Tim ( tv@juno.com ) _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 15:41:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA12169; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:36:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:36:27 -0700 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:34:50 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:58:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: Is Gravity Broken In-reply-to: <003901bde2f8$d9a555e0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> To: freenrg-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:34:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E1747ZXOLQJF4M X400-MTS-identifier: [;05438181908991/3232454@ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"rHZgm3.0.ez2.d1k0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6489 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave & All, David Callaghan wrote: >They are measuring the deceleration rate using the Doppler shift of the >radio signals. The deceleration rate is 80 billionth's of a centimetre per >second squared out from the theory, which would take a car travelling at >60km/h 650 years to stop. They have been trying to identify the cause for >some four years so it must be big enough an error to them at least. I say >modify the theory! ;-} >The same effects are occurring on other probes, all travelling in different >directions. They have ruled out many causes including gravity from other >objects. I hope they have checked the accuracy of the system performing the >calculation :-) Thanks for the update. As you know Doppler theory has at it's core the belief that the signal will travel at a fixed speed. So that when an increase or decrease in frequency occurs, than the object producing the signal is moving towards or away from the observer. But if we can't depend on a constant speed "C" for the signal, then over extended distances Doppler shift measurement becomes suspect. If "C" is not constant over great distances, than two objects stationary relative to each other would show a Doppler shift in the signal being sent. We have seen many references on this list, that the constant speed of "C" has been called into question. Such as the references that Lee Markland has found for us. How does the amount of error vary between the different probes. It would be nice to see a chart of how much the probes have slowed down as the distance from the sun increases. Along with other observational points relative to: solar spinward & anti-spinward, north & south polar trajectories (solar), the same for galactic spinward & anti-spinward & polar, and what about galactic drift, towards or away from the universes center. Before we try to get a bunch of old theories to fit, lets do the basic scientific method work first. William E. Briggs Jr. webriggs@concentric.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 16:21:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA03163; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:12:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:12:52 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917080902.00fd7280@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:09:02 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Is Gravity Broken In-Reply-To: References: <003901bde2f8$d9a555e0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_jJy-.0.In.oZk0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6490 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:58 PM 9/18/98 -0400, you wrote: >Dave & All, > >David Callaghan wrote: > >>They are measuring the deceleration rate using the Doppler shift of the >>radio signals. The deceleration rate is 80 billionth's of a centimetre per >>second squared out from the theory, which would take a car travelling at >>60km/h 650 years to stop. They have been trying to identify the cause for >>some four years so it must be big enough an error to them at least. I say >>modify the theory! ;-} > >>The same effects are occurring on other probes, all travelling in different >>directions. They have ruled out many causes including gravity from other >>objects. I hope they have checked the accuracy of the system performing the >>calculation :-) > >Thanks for the update. > >As you know Doppler theory has at it's core the belief that the signal will >travel at a fixed speed. So that when an increase or decrease in frequency >occurs, than the object producing the signal is moving towards or away from the >observer. But if we can't depend on a constant speed "C" for the signal, then >over extended distances Doppler shift measurement becomes suspect. > >If "C" is not constant over great distances, than two objects stationary >relative to each other would show a Doppler shift in the signal being sent. > >We have seen many references on this list, that the constant speed of "C" has >been called into question. Such as the references that Lee Markland has found >for us. > >How does the amount of error vary between the different probes. It would be >nice to see a chart of how much the probes have slowed down as the distance from >the sun increases. Along with other observational points relative to: solar >spinward & anti-spinward, north & south polar trajectories (solar), the same for >galactic spinward & anti-spinward & polar, and what about galactic drift, >towards or away from the universes center. Before we try to get a bunch of old >theories to fit, lets do the basic scientific method work first. > >William E. Briggs Jr. >webriggs@concentric.net Good questions William. wonder why the "theoretical" scientists don't ask them, those repositories of infinite wisdom and perfect knowledge. Why do we get so wrapped up in our BELIEFS; and beliefs in theories and LAWS are beliefs. Is it because they are part of our identity, our ego, our social prestige and position? Are we threatened by heresy? Is an attack on the foundation of our beliefs perceived as a personal attack on us. The answer is yes. I have seen this on conspiracy forums, on science forums, on anomaly and enignma forums and even on inane and metaphysical forums. Question the basis or a basis of a belief and one instantly becomes the target of vehemence, outrage, slander, smears, non sequiters, obfuscation attempts to change the subject and even personalize it turning it back on the person who raised the question. The problem is not a science problem the problem is a psychological one. Identification of self and ego with a belief structure. And what untold harm has been done to the advancement of our species, by these religiously held beliefs. First it was the metaphysical that was dogmatic, then philosophy changed its name to science and struggled for a toehold, then it too became dogmatic and is now right before our eyes becoming again metaphysical and the adherents and disciples seem not to even notice or question. Heck we haven't even loosed the 300 year old metaphysical chains of Newton, Huygens and Young. Where in the hell are we going to be in the next 10 years not to mention 100 years, if we don't break this stranglehold of orthodoxy and dogma and let loose the creative energies of mankind? "Don't tear it down unless you have something to replace it with," is the cry from the Popes chair. The clarion call of stultifying repression and inaction if ever there was one - translation: My ego and reputation is at stake and get out of here unless you can come up with something better. So the heretic slinks off, tail between legs, and the Righteous one gloats, knowing that his ego, pride and reputation is saved again, "damned trouble maker". Lee Markland rant mode off. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 17:20:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA27128; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:18:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:18:00 -0700 Message-ID: <3602F600.BFBF66A2@harti.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:08:32 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: newman-list , freenrg-l , Evan Soule Subject: Minn Kota sales strategy ? Boat motor really OU ??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X8TYo.0.md6.tWl0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6491 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I am thinking about, what I would do, if I had an overunity motor... Do you really think, Minn Kota would only sell small sales volume fishing boat motors, if they really would have an OU motor ??? If they would have an OU motor, they would sell it like hot potatoes to all other kind of applications I guess.. The volume of trolling boat motors is probably not very high.... Am I right ? Regards, Stefan,. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 17:24:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA29342; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:22:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:22:16 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:23:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980917132927.00fb5c70@rockisland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"dr82S3.0.IA7.ual0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6492 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Lee Markland wrote: > Zack I don't want to be facetious or argumentative. > > I've got to ask these questions though. > > Isn't spacetime a derivative Einstein's theories? > > I keep hearing people refer to him as though he was some god or messiah. > Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "spacetime" if it is so imtimately connected to Einstein. I don't mean to pull his theories into what I'm talking about. There are other theories besides his which make use of the concept that space and time are inseparable in this universe - neither will continue to exist without the other. That phenomenon is what I'm referring to. Probably we need a different term for the phenomenon. > > And this is assuming that there is indeed such a thing as time. > > Time is a subjective concept, born of man's mind. Man created this concept > based on the apparent recurring cycles of the universe. The rise and set of > the sun, the predictable return of the solstices, the observable decay of > animate matter. > > 100 mph is in reality 100 mp 1/24th revolution of the Earth on its axis. > > In a year on the outer planets 20 generations would be born and die within > the space of a year. On Mercury a day or night will be forever. > > One can not run smoke down a chimney and recreate a log, and one can not > predict the occurence of an event in the so called "future" > > There is no such thing as time to contract, dilate, fold all we are left > with is distance. The distance to the moon, to Mars, to the Sun from the > tip of my nose to the end of my fingers. > In this particular universe, time happens to be very real. If you're living in it, you are experiencing it. If someone happens to be in such bad shape as to be unaware of time, then I wonder how that person manages to drive a car without being killed in short order. I'm not talking units - you can assign any units you wish to time. We commonly use "hours", "minutes", parts of a period of the earth's rotation, orbit, etc., but you could use any units you want as a reference. How about some multiple of the frequency of one of the D lines of sodium? That's plentiful enough that we could build cheap clocks to keep track of it. An excellent treatise on time is the foreword to "Communication, Organization and Science" by Jerome Rothstein. The foreword was written by Charles Muses. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 17:50:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA07655; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:48:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:48:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917094504.00fda160@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:45:04 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980917132927.00fb5c70@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZBAgO2.0.Pt1.Pzl0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6493 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:23 PM 9/18/98 -0500, you wrote: > >In this particular universe, time happens to be very real. If you're >living in it, you are experiencing it. Well no doubt we are living and experiencing something, and we call it time. But just because we call it time, doesn't mean that is something that can be contracted, dilated, bent, warped, traveled through.. As I said, can't run the smoke down the chimney to make a log. Time travel doesn't exist if it did then logically there would be no beginning or end to time, and the world we know wouldn't exist because some traveler changed "the past". Time isn't dilated by speed either. If it was then communications with spacecraft, including orbital vehicles would be impossible. So we have something that we are living, a flow of energy, like water flowing over a dam. Can't row up the dam, and if we manage to helicopter to it, the water that is there isn't the water that was there (bad analogy anyway). Whatever units we use to measure the passage of time is, IMO, irrelevant it is a social convention, taking advantage of the regularity, predictability and uniformity of events. That we can measure these predicatable, regular and uniform events doesn't mean that there is such a thing as time, other than the useful social convention that we have created. When it can be proved, without paradox, that time can be dilated or contracted, then discussions of time will have value. As it stands now, not even the GPS Atomic Clock experiments recently conducted can account for eliminate the paradox of how time could be contracted for them, yet still exist within our "time" frame, or how if time was dilated for them, they could still receive and respond to transmissions. If you were to dilate time for yourself, to move slower, to be in another time. I wouldn't see you and neither of us could communicate by radio transmissions. That is one example of the paradox. I'm glad we have this concept called time. But just the thousands year old useage of that word and concept doesn't bring it into existence as "something", something to be dilated, warped, contracted, bent or anything else. Mr. Rothstein and Muses notwithstanding. Then again I don't have a belief structure or theory wrapped up in this concept. Lee If someone happens to be in such >bad shape as to be unaware of time, then I wonder how that person manages >to drive a car without being killed in short order. I'm not talking >units - you can assign any units you wish to time. We commonly use >"hours", "minutes", parts of a period of the earth's rotation, orbit, >etc., but you could use any units you want as a reference. How about >some multiple of the frequency of one of the D lines of sodium? That's >plentiful enough that we could build cheap clocks to keep track of it. > >An excellent treatise on time is the foreword to "Communication, >Organization and Science" by Jerome Rothstein. The foreword was written >by Charles Muses. > >Zack > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 17:57:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA11332; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:56:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:56:15 -0700 From: mindtech@nor.com.au Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980919111417.006d9270@pophost.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:14:17 +1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] In-Reply-To: <36004D85.676B@nf.sympatico.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"4EMtF1.0.um2.k4m0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6494 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Since there is a body of work describing all electromagnetic radiation >as a function of basic static electrical forces and that magnetic and >gravitational forces can be described as spin waves. > If you think about it, spin is simply a way of picking up another dimension. For example, if we say electrical fields are two dimensional, then a magnetic field occupies three. By cancelling the B vector of ordinary EM, we can derive a hybrid form of radiation which is both electrical and scalar magnetic. Hooper did this with non-inductive hairpin coils and called it a "motional field". His own, and a few subsequent experiments, exhibited a slight weight loss. To my knowledge, he was working with DC. Perhaps by making the system self-resonant more substantial effects could be achieved. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 17:58:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA11375; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:56:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:56:19 -0700 From: mindtech@nor.com.au Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980919111508.006ea67c@pophost.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:15:08 +1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] In-Reply-To: <3602E7D1.52F7@mlb.planet.gen.nz> References: <3.0.5.32.19980917105000.00fc8460@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980917121852.00fcbcf0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"YTFR4.0.dn2.o4m0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6495 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >"........anything which is absolutely indivisible -- whether we call it a >particle of matter or a quantum of energy -- would be entirely homogeneous >and inflexible. > >SR > We could postulate that the aether has a Phi ratioed substructure and that its evolving fractality is resonsible for all phenomena. So who threw the original stone into the pond? Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 18:09:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA18082; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:07:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:07:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917100254.00f9a6f0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:02:54 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980919111417.006d9270@pophost.nor.com.au> References: <36004D85.676B@nf.sympatico.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jC7Rm2.0.QQ4.FFm0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6496 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:14 AM 9/19/98 +1000, you wrote: >> Since there is a body of work describing all electromagnetic radiation >>as a function of basic static electrical forces and that magnetic and >>gravitational forces can be described as spin waves. >> > >If you think about it, spin is simply a way of picking up another >dimension. For example, if we say electrical fields are two dimensional, >then a magnetic field occupies three. By cancelling the B vector of >ordinary EM, we can derive a hybrid form of radiation which is both >electrical and scalar magnetic. > >Hooper did this with non-inductive hairpin coils and called it a "motional >field". His own, and a few subsequent experiments, exhibited a slight >weight loss. To my knowledge, he was working with DC. Perhaps by making the >system self-resonant more substantial effects could be achieved. > >Peter Nielsen So we have an effect, and observed weight loss (potential antigrav) but we still can't call it a spin "wave". I like the hybrid explanation though, looks closer to a description of what is going on. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 18:11:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA18105; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:07:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:07:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917100415.00fae650@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:04:15 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980919111508.006ea67c@pophost.nor.com.au> References: <3602E7D1.52F7@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <3.0.5.32.19980917105000.00fc8460@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980917121852.00fcbcf0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"H5nUX1.0.pQ4.GFm0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6497 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:15 AM 9/19/98 +1000, you wrote: >>"........anything which is absolutely indivisible -- whether we call it a >>particle of matter or a quantum of energy -- would be entirely homogeneous >>and inflexible. >> >>SR >> > >We could postulate that the aether has a Phi ratioed substructure and that >its evolving fractality is resonsible for all phenomena. So who threw the >original stone into the pond? > >Peter Nielsen > Why YVHV, of course - Not. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 18:22:47 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA25214; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:20:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:20:06 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Another update: Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 01:21:15 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <360606be.245774116@mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0kU4T2.0.m96.4Rm0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6498 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:04:58 -0600, Evan Soule wrote: [snip] >In speaking with Darryl Bonz in Michigan this afternoon (who was in Phoenix >earlier and spoke w/Joe & studied the new Motor), he believes that because >the shaft is bent, the rpms cannot get much higher than 100. I have no idea >at this time if Joe and Milt can correct this problem. > >Sincerely, Evan > The bent shaft wouldn't be a consequence of two men standing on the ends of a plank resting on the shaft, would it? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 19:00:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA10063; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:58:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:58:40 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:59:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980917094504.00fda160@rockisland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"6ijBO3.0.3T2.D_m0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6499 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Lee Markland wrote: > > I'm glad we have this concept called time. But just the thousands year old > useage of that word and concept doesn't bring it into existence as > "something", something to be dilated, warped, contracted, bent or anything > else. > If we didn't have time, everything would all happen at once! :-) Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 19:12:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA13774; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:07:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:07:20 -0700 Message-ID: <36041A32.53A0@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:55:14 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] References: <3602E7D1.52F7@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <3.0.5.32.19980917105000.00fc8460@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980917121852.00fcbcf0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980917100415.00fae650@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oYCBL3.0.8N3.N7n0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6500 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee wrote: > > > >.....its evolving fractality is resonsible for all phenomena. > > So who threw the original stone into the pond? > > > > Why YVHV, of course - Not. > Don't blame ME!! I just lurk here......:-) SR -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 19:16:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16857; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:14:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:14:19 -0700 Message-ID: <36041C00.57BF@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:02:56 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MTEVC2.0.I74.wDn0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6501 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zack wrote: > > If we didn't have time, everything would all happen at once! > > :-) > The TRUTH is..... it DOES !......:-) SR -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 19:18:57 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA18129; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:17:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:17:17 -0700 Message-ID: <360310AD.A1FDE144@harti.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 04:02:22 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: newman-list , freenrg-l , Jean Louis Naudin , dave dameron , "mrandall@earthlink.net" Subject: Quickfield coil and magnet setup ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9wzpV1.0.5R4.iGn0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6502 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, does anybody know, how I can setup a permament magnet and a current carrying aircore coil inside Quickfield ? I want to use its calculation of the mechanical force integral to see, how much attraction can be get from aircore coils and a powerful permanent magnet versus distance. How do I design a 1000 windings aircore coil with a diameter of 10 cm and an 1 Ampere current inside Quickfield ? Please let me know. Many thanks ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 19:31:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22672; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:29:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:29:50 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:19:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980918213444.3bd7bd26@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: Minn Kota sales strategy ? Boat motor really OU ??? Resent-Message-ID: <"-NtYX.0.AY5.USn0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6503 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi, >I am thinking about, what I would do, if I had >an overunity motor... > >Do you really think, Minn Kota would only sell >small sales volume fishing boat motors, if they really >would have an OU motor ??? > >If they would have an OU motor, they would sell >it like hot potatoes to all other kind of applications I guess.. > >The volume of trolling boat motors is probably not very high.... > >Am I right ? > >Regards, Stefan,. > Hello All, If this Minn Kota trolling motor was/is so efficient... wouldn't it be cheaper to buy one of their motors and test it out and possibly make it more efficient than starting from scratch and ending up spending a lot more money with a lot more time with a trail and err method. Also I beleive it might be worth to rent one if any rental places have one and put a meter on it and see if putting any drag on the shaft would show no increase in the current and also another question is this drawing milli-amps of current also. Just thoughts... mike slivinski From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 19:57:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA31422; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:55:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:55:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917113722.00f94100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:37:22 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] In-Reply-To: <36041A32.53A0@mlb.planet.gen.nz> References: <3602E7D1.52F7@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <3.0.5.32.19980917105000.00fc8460@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980917121852.00fcbcf0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980917100415.00fae650@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"gNw6L1.0.sg7.Zqn0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6505 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:55 PM 9/19/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee wrote: > >> > >> >.....its evolving fractality is resonsible for all phenomena. >> > So who threw the original stone into the pond? >> > > >> >> Why YVHV, of course - Not. >> > >Don't blame ME!! I just lurk here......:-) > >SR Shalom HaShem , Adonai, Shalom, be not angry with me :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 19:58:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA31384; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:55:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:55:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980917113558.00fa37d0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:35:58 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980917094504.00fda160@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"78_H_3.0.Dg7.Wqn0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6504 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: LOL - Back and forth. Flow Zack flow. Time is still a concept only. Just goes to show you though we are ignorant, conceptually, of even the most basic things. The things we take for granted. Lee At 08:59 PM 9/18/98 -0500, you wrote: > >On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Lee Markland wrote: > >> >> I'm glad we have this concept called time. But just the thousands year old >> useage of that word and concept doesn't bring it into existence as >> "something", something to be dilated, warped, contracted, bent or anything >> else. >> > >If we didn't have time, everything would all happen at once! > >:-) > >Zack > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 20:49:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA16996; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:47:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:47:14 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:57:15 -0600 To: "Stefan Hartmann" From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Minn Kota sales strategy ? Boat motor really OU ??? Resent-Message-ID: <"IxLFg2.0.R94.1bo0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6506 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi, >I am thinking about, what I would do, if I had >an overunity motor... > >Do you really think, Minn Kota would only sell >small sales volume fishing boat motors, if they really >would have an OU motor ??? > >If they would have an OU motor, they would sell >it like hot potatoes to all other kind of applications I guess.. > >The volume of trolling boat motors is probably not very high.... > >Am I right ? > >Regards, Stefan,. > >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com >Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net Dear Stefan, While I don't have the figures in front of me (Joe has the sales figures for many years), the worldwide Trolling Motor Market is quite a bit bigger than one may think! This particular division of Johnson Motors has had worldwide sales of hundreds of millions of dollars! It does seem an interesting "coincidence" that the Chairman of the Board of Directors of Johnson Motors is also the Director of MOBIL OIL CORPORATION. It is Joe's position that Johnson/MinnKota have sought to introduce Joe's plundered technology by quietly capturing the "trolling motor market" which does not represent a real threat to the gasoline-powered motors. Also: From their own charts --- MinnKota reported that their Model 12 draws 300 watts and produces 18-lb thrust. Model 40 draws 144 watts and produces a 20-lb thrust. Why, in the mid-80s, after Dr. Hastings had been working for them, did MinnKota suddenly switch the rating of 'their' trolling motors from "Horsepower" to "Thrust"? Why, at the same time, did they start calling their motors "COOL POWER"? Joe has stated that, "The utilization of the term 'thrust' rather than 'horsepower' was a deliberate attempt by MinnKota to hide the nature of the revolutionary efficiencies obtained through their production and sale of a plundered Newman Motor. Regards, Evan Soule' From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 21:15:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA27151; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:14:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:14:04 -0700 Message-ID: <19980919041607.20546.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:16:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Re: Minn Kota sales strategy ? Boat motor really OU ??? To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"yqHcu3.0.9e6.B-o0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6507 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---Evan Soule wrote: > > > Also: From their own charts --- > > MinnKota reported that their Model 12 draws 300 watts and produces 18-lb > thrust. Model 40 draws 144 watts and produces a 20-lb thrust. > > Why, in the mid-80s, after Dr. Hastings had been working for them, did > MinnKota suddenly switch the rating of 'their' trolling motors from > "Horsepower" to "Thrust"? So -- what exactly does 20lbs of thrust mean? Is that 20ft lbs of thrust? Anyone know how to make that into a Watts-in to Watts-out comparison? == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 21:35:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA00409; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:34:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:34:27 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Minn Kota sales strategy ? Boat motor really OU ??? Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 04:35:41 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <360c33bc.257295362@mail-hub> References: <19980919041607.20546.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> In-Reply-To: <19980919041607.20546.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2Mu1b1.0.E6.IHp0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6508 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:16:07 -0700 (PDT), Anton Rager wrote: [snip] >So -- what exactly does 20lbs of thrust mean? Is that 20ft lbs of >thrust? Anyone know how to make that into a Watts-in to Watts-out >comparison? [snip] I suspect that it means the same thing as it does when talking about rockets. In that case I think it means "pounds force", so you really can't translate it into a power (i.e. you can't figure out the efficiency - well I can't ;). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 21:40:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA01972; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:39:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:39:28 -0700 Message-ID: <360335E1.E2C0C7BF@GroupZ.net> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:41:05 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Minn Kota sales strategy ? Boat motor really OU ??? References: <19980919041607.20546.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-kNmc.0.kU._Lp0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6509 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Its a more accurate rating than horse power, as it takes into account the shape of the propellor....easier to compare watts in to actual push....steve opelc Anton Rager wrote: > > ---Evan Soule wrote: > > > > > > > Also: From their own charts --- > > > > MinnKota reported that their Model 12 draws 300 watts and produces > 18-lb > > thrust. Model 40 draws 144 watts and produces a 20-lb thrust. > > > > Why, in the mid-80s, after Dr. Hastings had been working for them, did > > MinnKota suddenly switch the rating of 'their' trolling motors from > > "Horsepower" to "Thrust"? > > So -- what exactly does 20lbs of thrust mean? Is that 20ft lbs of > thrust? Anyone know how to make that into a Watts-in to Watts-out > comparison? > > == > Anton Rager > a_rager@yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 22:38:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA20562; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:37:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:37:16 -0700 From: dtmiller@mcleodusa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Colloidal Silver, special water, cell death. Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 05:38:22 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@mcleodusa.net Message-ID: <36033eb6.26876629@mail.mcleodusa.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA20544 Resent-Message-ID: <"K4Zoj2.0.B15.CCq0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6510 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill, On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:35:47 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: >Reference http://www.American-Longevity.com/pure.html >(Sure there is a lot of sales hype, but good basic information as well.) I checked that site. Looks good and I'll order some to try. (I already have some dissolved rocks :) ) >Silver has been known for a long time to inhibit the ability of a cell to >reproduce, not to kill it but to keep it from growing. Which considering the >short lifespan of many infectious organisms, if the silver is present longer >than the bacteria can reproduce, the next generation can't take it's place let >alone spread. It's not only bacteria, but appears to affect viruses, fungii, etc. More importantly, a tiny amount of 5 ppb colloidal silver (1 tsp per gallon) seems to be more effective than bleach in keeping bacteria from growing in stored water. (My tests are continuing in that area, and also am testing water in open pans -- apparently the chlorine eventually evaporates and loses it's effectiveness.) >Question, does silvadine ointment/cream contain silver. It is a prescription >drug generally used to treat sores, burns and frostbite. I'd like to know that, too. I've sprayed the 5 ppb solution directly on open sores and acne and it seems to be effective. Tests are ongoing in that area, too (I always seem to get small nicks, cuts and scratches from kittens climbing my bare legs). I also make eye drops of 1/2 the 5 ppm solution and 1/2 .9% saline solution. There are some ointment kits with which you can make your own ointments from colloidal silver you've made yourself. -- Dean -- from Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 22:56:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA24719; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:54:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:54:09 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <666e7af5.36034709@aol.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 01:54:17 EDT To: JCSnooky@aol.com Cc: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The N-ZPF Motor v1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA24696 Resent-Message-ID: <"fjLci2.0.926.1Sq0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6511 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, On 18/09/1998 23:18:08é), JCSnooky wrote : << Have you ever tried replicating any of the Townsend Brown experiments with charged capacitors? Brown would mount capacitor on a scale (positive pole down, negative pole up), charge it up with a static elect. generator (wimshurst, or Van de Graaf, or whatever); the capacitor would then exhibit some thrust--from positive pole--and would therefore, also show some corresponding weightloss (antigravity, if you prefer). JC Snooky >> Yes, today, I can say that the major T.T.Brown and A.H.Bahnson experiments and devices works perfectly, you will find some of them in my web site at : http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/elgmnu.htm Recently, we have published a book of 450 pages/220 pictures and diagrams : "The Biefeld Brown Effect, The secret history of the Antigravity". ( it is 60% in French, 40% in english ). The successfull replication of the Trouton-Noble experiment that I have conducted with Patrick Cornille has been presented during the "Physical Interpretations of Relativity Theory - VI conference" at the Imperial college in London (UK) on September 12th, 1998. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 18 23:31:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA00175; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:30:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:30:01 -0700 Message-ID: <077501bde396$adf29e00$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Colloidal Silver, special water, cell death. Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:28:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"iMF3_3.0.a2.ezq0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6512 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>There are some monks that live somewhere in the mountains (low oxygen), eat >>small but varied meals, do moderate exercise and meditate/pray. Not a very >>stressful existence. Their average life expectancy is above 100! > >Actually there are about 5 or 6 known groups of very long lived people, Who, where, you hear these things, but until you can get facts I chalk it up to urban legend. >scattered across the planet. The biggest thing they have in common is that >their primary source of water is glacier melt. This stuff has a very high >mineral content. They drink it, but more importantly they irrigate their crops >with it. I have seen where children have a problem of aging too quickly, they are only 7 but their bodies are like 90, if you can turn a switch and age too quick, why can't the reverse be true, age too slowly? Is diet the reason this switches get flipped, or is it something deeper in the DNA puzzle, where is our time and resources best spent investigating? Studying the effects of certain diets or investigating the possibilites of gene and dna manipulation? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 00:04:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA06650; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:02:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:02:45 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980919022012.00cce568@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:20:12 +0000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Good bye Maxwell-Einstein-Field Theories... Resent-Message-ID: <"0pAmK.0.qd1.LSr0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6513 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Enterprisemission.com people say that Heavyside left out the fourth dimensional stuff when simplifying Maxwell's electromagnetic theory. These higher dimensional effects may account for interactions you mention. Can you be more specific about the advantages of Ampere's theory? I've had interest in collisionless (ion acoustic) Landau damping plasma effects. It seems logical that O/U could be modelled as the opposite of this damping mechanism. Can Ampere's theory model collisionless plasma wave damping effects? Just got back from MIT's Hayden science library... some observations... Maxwell's 3rd edition 1892 'Treatise...' mentions Ampere's theory. The 1950's 3rd edition seems to have different diagrams from the 1892 3rd edition. The text seems to be the same in the places I checked anyways. People interested in practical experimentation over theory will be able to relate to these 1800's texts. Faraday's Experimental Research in Electricity ought to be on personal bookshelves. It doesn't seem possible that we could have a complete understanding of all aspects of the experimental electrical phenomenon mentioned in such texts of this period. One could probably go over this stuff with a fine toothed comb for years and continuously come up with further refinements to one's scientific understanding not possible only studying recent theory. My research indicates that hands on, first generation experimenters like Faraday, Maxwell, Tesla, (Ampere?) envisioned technology capable of what forums like ours are striving to accomplish today. Could it be that the 'theorists' (Heavyside etc.) who 'refined' first generation work for general consumption, intentionally 'tamed it down' (left stuff out - denying us the tools to understand higher dimensional effects) in the interest of 'national security' (J. P. Morgan's interests)? Or were they just stupid? At 01:59 PM 9/18/98 -0400, you wrote: >I don't think so. The problem is the definition of the current element. But then, >I am not >familar with Maxwell's original equations. Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 00:53:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA10854; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:46:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:46:09 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980911010322.00fa2300@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:03:22 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Colloidal Silver, special water, cell death. In-Reply-To: <36033eb6.26876629@mail.mcleodusa.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"k1XDq3.0.Rf2.05s0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6514 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:38 AM 9/19/98 GMT, you wrote: >Hi Bill, > >On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:35:47 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: > > > >>Question, does silvadine ointment/cream contain silver. It is a prescription >>drug generally used to treat sores, burns and frostbite. Yes, In 1985 I suffered massive 2d and 3d degree burns to my face and hands, and was literally bathed in Silvadine, kept a jar at home read the contents - Silver. Saved me from massive scarring, that and debrisding (painful process). Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 00:53:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA10982; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:46:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:46:14 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980911012324.00fa15e0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:23:24 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Three possibly related phenomenon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"llenw3.0.Eh2.55s0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6516 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: NASA and the Astronomers have reported three events as of late. Events I think might be related, however they are scrabbling for conventional explanations. 1. The moon is receding from the Earth at a rate of 2 inches per year. 2. In the last 7 years the Earth's atmospheric shell has diminished by 5 miles. 3. The apparent size of the sun has shrunk by 400 miles in the last 7 years. When is the last time anyone performed a gravity drop test, certified. Have they performed such tests at different locations (poles, equator, night side, day side and different latitudes). Rate of fall on Earth is historical 32.2ft per second squared. Wonder what it is now? Can the Earth's gravitational field be diminishing, thus causing the moon to recede and its atmosphere to shrink? If so how much longer do we have before we go the way of Mars and the moon? Lee Markland From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 00:53:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA10872; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:46:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:46:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980911011402.00fa3d10@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:14:02 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Good bye Maxwell-Einstein-Field Theories... In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980919022012.00cce568@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"vEbFr.0.of2.25s0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6515 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:20 AM 9/19/98 +0000, you wrote: I vote Intentional. It was the money interests, always the money interests. Didn't J.P. Morgan back out of Tesla's transmitted or "aetheral" electricity because he couldn't charge for it. "No place to put the meters". The first guy that comes up with a "free energy" machine or device that works, will be a dead man unless he just gifts it to society as a humanitarian, a "get them bastards "gesture, elsewise the powers to be will bury his butt, probably he will "commit suicide". Too much at stake. The international finance system, IMF, Chase, Citicorps all control trade through finance. For instance Colombia has to sell Cocaine to pay back loans for petrodollars, Brazil has to exploit its rainforest for wood and gold, same reason. Indonesia exploits its women and children in factories, same reason. Rothschilds and Rockefellers will kill anyone who threatens their stranglehold and power, not to mention the Investment Bankers on Wall Street. Joe Newman is still alive isn't he. Hendershott built a homopolar generator (O/U) that electrocuted him in an accident. J.P. Morgan funded a jerk name of Hochstetter (a proto Randi the Magician CSICOP type) to hound him, followed him around the country heckling and debunking him (no visible means of support). >My research indicates that hands on, first generation experimenters like >Faraday, Maxwell, Tesla, (Ampere?) envisioned technology capable of what >forums like ours are striving to accomplish today. Could it be that the >'theorists' (Heavyside etc.) who 'refined' first generation work for general >consumption, intentionally 'tamed it down' (left stuff out - denying us the >tools to understand higher dimensional effects) in the interest of 'national >security' (J. P. Morgan's interests)? Or were they just stupid? > > >At 01:59 PM 9/18/98 -0400, you wrote: > >>I don't think so. The problem is the definition of the current element. >But then, >>I am not >>familar with Maxwell's original equations. >Tall Ships >http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 02:32:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA24737; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:31:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:31:17 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <2.2.32.19980910003653.006a168c@mail.wincom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:30:06 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Colloidal Silver, special water, cell death. Resent-Message-ID: <"uxKt4.0.R26.bdt0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6517 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William - > Question, does silvadine ointment/cream contain > silver. It is a prescription drug generally used to > treat sores, burns and frostbite. Yes, it's silver based. Had it prescribed for a burn a while back, and it healed very well with very slight scarring. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 03:26:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA29136; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 03:25:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 03:25:17 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980911012324.00fa15e0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:23:57 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon Resent-Message-ID: <"Hqyil.0.577.DQu0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6518 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee - > Have they performed such tests at different > locations (poles, equator, night side, day side and > different latitudes). Rate of fall on Earth is > historical 32.2ft per second squared. Wonder what > it is now? Extremely accurate gravitometers are in regular use around the world in geological surveys. I don't know why these wouldn't reveal any small change. > Can the Earth's gravitational field be diminishing, > thus causing the moon to recede and its atmosphere > to shrink? I don't know why the moon has been receding either, but I bet a very slight *increase* in gravity would shrink the atmosphere by a noticable amount. And a like increase in the sun's gravity would shrink its surface and drag on outbound spacecraft. I don't have the skill to evaluate if a single given magnitude of change would account correctly for both phenomena, but at least the sense (direction) is right. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 03:46:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA30726; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 03:44:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 03:44:45 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 05:46:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Good bye Maxwell-Einstein-Field Theories... To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980911011402.00fa3d10@rockisland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gLFL5.0.0W7.Siu0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6519 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Lee Markland wrote: > At 02:20 AM 9/19/98 +0000, you wrote: > > I vote Intentional. It was the money interests, always the money interests. > Didn't J.P. Morgan back out of Tesla's transmitted or "aetheral" > electricity because he couldn't charge for it. "No place to put the meters". > > The first guy that comes up with a "free energy" machine or device that > works, will be a dead man unless he just gifts it to society as a > humanitarian, a "get them bastards "gesture, elsewise the powers to be will > bury his butt, probably he will "commit suicide". > This is exactly what was said by Moray B. King in "Tapping the Zero-Point Energy." Near the end of the book he mentioned what he calls the "Prometheus Game". I quoted part of this on this discussion group a few years ago. I don't think there's any way out. Whoever comes up with a free-energy device will just have to publish it far and wide for everyone who wishes to use it, no strings attached. Otherwise, if he lives very long, he will not lead a pleasant life, due to various factors in this society. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 04:27:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA06339; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 04:23:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 04:23:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3603920D.DC34AC3@harti.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:14:21 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, sno , newman-list , Evan Soule Subject: Re: Minn Kota sales strategy ? Boat motor really OU ??? References: <19980919041607.20546.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> <360335E1.E2C0C7BF@GroupZ.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qzKtW3.0.zY1.8Hv0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6520 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: sno wrote: > Its a more accurate rating than horse power, as it > takes into account the shape of the propellor....easier > to compare watts in to actual push....steve opelc > So waht does 70 pounds of thrust really mean ? Does it mean, if you put the motor under water and power it up full speed and you attach a scale to it, so it can not move away, the scale would show 35 Kg (70 pounds) weight on it, so as if the motor would pull on the scale-spring with 35 kg weight ? How many Watts does this represent ? Is there any conversion table ? I guess it is hard to convert, cause it also depends on the propeller screw used under water and its efficiency ! So it is probably a trick of Minn Kota not to say the horsepower or Watts output of the motor itsself ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 05:19:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA14626; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 05:17:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 05:17:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3603A31A.11CEF78C@servtech.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:27:07 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The N-ZPF Motor v1.0 References: <666e7af5.36034709@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l79zt.0.Qa3.J3w0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6521 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > Hi All, > > On 18/09/1998 23:18:08é), JCSnooky wrote : > << Have you ever tried replicating any of the Townsend Brown experiments with > charged capacitors? Brown would mount capacitor on a scale (positive pole > down, negative pole up), charge it up with a static elect. generator > (wimshurst, or Van de Graaf, or whatever); the capacitor would then exhibit > some thrust--from positive pole--and would therefore, also show some > corresponding weightloss (antigravity, if you prefer). > > JC Snooky >> > > Yes, today, I can say that the major T.T.Brown and A.H.Bahnson experiments and > devices works perfectly, you will find some of them in my web site at : > http://members.aol.com/overunity/html/elgmnu.htm > > Recently, we have published a book of 450 pages/220 pictures and diagrams : > "The Biefeld Brown Effect, The secret history of the Antigravity". ( it is 60% > in French, 40% in english ). > How can I obtain a copy of the book???? Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 05:57:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA21410; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 05:56:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 05:56:18 -0700 Message-ID: <00c401bde3cd$08e88960$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Atomic particles, Mitochondria, Silver, Life span Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:57:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"cqsXK1.0.NE5.ndw0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6522 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee, Dean, Bill and All -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland >What does a proton have to do with chemistry anyway? An atom where there are equal protons and electrons is neutral, more protons than electrons gives a positive ion, and more electrons than protons gives a negative ion. (Or I need to refresh my memory :-) ) Chemists make use of ionic values for making compounds with non covalent bonds. I do agree that many of the other 1300 or so 'identified' particles have highly suspect properties that do not fit in everywhere. --------------------------------------------------- Regarding mitochondria, see http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/go/carl/mitochon.htm The operation of the mitochondria was first described by Krebbs. They form the commonly known 'Citric Acid Cycle', used by all creatures that do not use photosynthesis for energy. The Citric Acid Cycle is used to metabolise sugars and oxygen into useful energy. ----------------------------------------------------- Also, from the excellent Web-Elements site: http://www.shef.ac.uk/chemistry/web-elements/index-fr.html >"Silver is very toxic to lower organisms. The metal itself causes few problems but silver salts irritate skin and mucous membranes. Sloppy laboratory technique when using silver nitrate solutions is shown up by very dark stains on the skin. Silver salts in small amounts may cause death if ingested and may be carcinogenic in very small quantities. "< I cannot imagine any silver suspension not containing any compounds, especially after it has been ingested. A couple of reports such as 'It made me feel a lot better' does nothing for me. Placebo studies indicate that many people taking the placebo even get the known side effects for the compound they believe they are taking. The mind is a powerful thing. I do know that silver and many other elements (like iodine) are good anti-septic's. Dettol is also a good anti-septic, but I can't manage more than half a pint ;-} I have yet to see a non-topical medication containing silver. There are non-topical medications utilising gold however, but these suppress part of our immune system. I followed advice to search on 'colloidal silver'. The first site I looked at was this: http://homepages.together.net/~rjstan/rose1.html A single report again, but adverse information is psychologically weightier than supporting information. I am not brushing aside reports for colloidal silver, I would just like to see a large, scientific study before I could feel safe taking it myself. -------------------------------------------------------- - Regarding the long life-span monks: Again, I cannot find the book containing the name of the monks I described earlier. I believe they live somewhere around Tibet (some sub-set of the usual Tibetan monks). They were also featured on an Equinox TV program. I have found a site listing minimal calorie intake to increase life span though: www.walford.com I will contact Channel 4 TV and find out the name of the monks. Bill detailed 5 or 6 long life span communities. Is one of them the monks I described? Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 08:15:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA14714; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:14:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:14:34 -0700 From: dtmiller@mcleodusa.net (Dean T. Miller) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Colloidal Silver, special water, cell death. Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:15:48 GMT Organization: Miller and Associates Reply-To: dtmiller@mcleodusa.net Message-ID: <3603c62e.61561790@mail.mcleodusa.net> References: <077501bde396$adf29e00$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> In-Reply-To: <077501bde396$adf29e00$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA14697 Resent-Message-ID: <"Powor.0.qb3.Pfy0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6523 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill, On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:28:11 -0400, you wrote: >>>There are some monks that live somewhere in the mountains (low oxygen), >eat >>>small but varied meals, do moderate exercise and meditate/pray. Not a >very >>>stressful existence. Their average life expectancy is above 100! >> >>Actually there are about 5 or 6 known groups of very long lived people, > >Who, where, you hear these things, but until you can get facts I chalk it up >to urban legend. Both Scientific American and National Geographic have had long articles on these groups of people. I don't know about the others, but there have been 4 groups written up. They lived in the 1) Andes, 2) Pyrenees, 3) Caucasus and 4) Himalayas. Common to all were: 1) large populations over 100 years of age (compared to developed countries), 2) mountainous regions, 3) the need to climb and descend mountain paths almost daily and 4) a diet of a milk-based food plus grains (yogurt/wheat in 2 cases, heavily buttered tea/oats/barley in another, don't recall the 4th). Some of the oldest people in 2 areas smoked cigarettes all their lives (over 110 years) and some rode horses, donkeys, etc. for sport (over 100 years of age). I had saved the National Geographic one article was in, but can't find it right now. I think it was from the mid-80's. NG has a series of CD-ROMs out (pretty cheap) that contain all of the NGs from the beginning. -- Dean -- from Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 10:05:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA13289; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:04:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:04:21 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: <9455b160.3603e426@aol.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:04:38 EDT To: rwgray@servtech.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The N-ZPF Motor v1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"eQhzW1.0.UF3.KG-0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6524 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 19/09/1998 14:20:30, rwgray@servtech.com wrote : << > > Recently, we have published a book of 450 pages/220 pictures and diagrams : > "The Biefeld Brown Effect, The secret history of the Antigravity". ( it is 60% > in French, 40% in english ). > How can I obtain a copy of the book???? Bob Gray >> I shall soon inform you how and where to get this book. For whose are interested to see some picture of my Trouton-Noble experiment replication you can visit : http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/troutnbl.htm Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 11:31:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA00742; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:22:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:22:09 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:32:11 -0600 To: "Stefan Hartmann" From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Minn Kota sales strategy ? Boat motor really OU ??? Resent-Message-ID: <"nK8Ti1.0.VB.HP_0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6525 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >sno wrote: > >> Its a more accurate rating than horse power, as it >> takes into account the shape of the propellor....easier >> to compare watts in to actual push....steve opelc >> > > > >So waht does 70 pounds of thrust really mean ? > >Does it mean, if you put the motor under water and power it up >full speed and you attach a scale to it, so it can not move away, >the scale would show 35 Kg (70 pounds) weight on it, >so as if the motor would pull on the scale-spring with 35 kg weight ? > >How many Watts does this represent ? > >Is there any conversion table ? >I guess it is hard to convert, cause it also depends >on the propeller screw used under water and its efficiency ! > >So it is probably a trick of Minn Kota not to say the horsepower >or Watts output of the motor itsself ! > > >Regards, Stefan. > > >-- Dear Stefan, In the newest Edition of Joe's book, he has Affidavits from individuals, who attempted to obtain from civil engineers and physics professors, a conversion between "THRUST" and "horsepower" --- these individuals were unable to provide such a conversion. What I have found curious is that MinnKota would 1) suddenly began advertising their product as "COOL POWER" and 2) simultaneously change the rating of their trolling motors from "horsepower" to "thrust" --- at the same time that Joe has stated they began using his technology in their products based upon the disclosure of trade secrets that they obtained from Dr. Roger Hastings who had signed a Confidential Disclosure Agreement with Joseph Newman. Evan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 11:31:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA05956; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:29:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:29:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980919001350.00f89480@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:13:50 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"RpRIh1.0.-S1.BW_0s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6526 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In regards to the following which I posted last night. It dawned on me as I was falling asleep that perhaps the apparent shrinkage of the sun might be a clue as to why the spaceships, previously posted, seem to be slowing down as they leave our solar system. Hypotheses: Either the sun is shrinking and hence its gravitational pull is diminishing, thus the Earth is moving in a wider orbit. Or the Earth's gravitational pull is diminishing causing the Earth to move in a wider orbit - or both. If the orbit of the Earth were to widen, then that would account for the apparent shrinkage of the sun, by the 400 miles mentioned. It would also account for the increased time delay of signals from these satellites (at least on 1/2 of its orbit. On the other half of its orbit, the signals would be reaching us sooner. Questions: At what point on our orbit are these measurements of time delay being made? Or they being made on all points on the orbit? When was the last time we measured our distance to the sun? How do we measure our distance to the sun? What degree of accuracy is involved in the method used? How can we accurately measure our distance to the sun? The only methodology I can think of that would yield accurate results is to reflect some frequency off the sun and record its return. All other methods are mathematical constructs based on assumptions. Are there any tools available to obtain such measurements, something more scientific and reliable than mathematical theories based on assumptions? NASA and the Astronomers have reported three events as of late. Events I think might be related, however they are scrabbling for conventional explanations. 1. The moon is receding from the Earth at a rate of 2 inches per year. 2. In the last 7 years the Earth's atmospheric shell has diminished by 5 miles. 3. The apparent size of the sun has shrunk by 400 miles in the last 7 years. When is the last time anyone performed a gravity drop test, certified. Have they performed such tests at different locations (poles, equator, night side, day side and different latitudes). Rate of fall on Earth is historical 32.2ft per second squared. Wonder what it is now? Can the Earth's gravitational field be diminishing, thus causing the moon to recede and its atmosphere to shrink? If so how much longer do we have before we go the way of Mars and the moon? Lee Markland From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 12:32:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14461; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3603FBD8.E942E078@harti.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:45:44 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , Evan Soule , freenrg-l Subject: Re: Minn Kota Maximizer circuit secrets ?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dexa-.0.tX3.bH01s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6527 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: > >sno wrote: > > > >> Its a more accurate rating than horse power, as it > >> takes into account the shape of the propellor....easier > >> to compare watts in to actual push....steve opelc > >> > > > > > > > >So what does 70 pounds of thrust really mean ? > > > >Does it mean, if you put the motor under water and power it up > >full speed and you attach a scale to it, so it can not move away, > >the scale would show 35 Kg (70 pounds) weight on it, > >so as if the motor would pull on the scale-spring with 35 kg weight ? > > > >How many Watts does this represent ? > > > >Is there any conversion table ? > >I guess it is hard to convert, cause it also depends > >on the propeller screw used under water and its efficiency ! > > > >So it is probably a trick of Minn Kota not to say the horsepower > >or Watts output of the motor itsself ! > > > > > >Regards, Stefan. > > > > > >-- > > Dear Stefan, > > In the newest Edition of Joe's book, he has Affidavits from individuals, > who attempted to obtain from civil engineers and physics professors, a > conversion between "THRUST" and "horsepower" --- these individuals were > unable to provide such a conversion. I see, yes it is probably difficult, cause the efficiency of the propeller screws goes into it too... > > > > > What I have found curious is that MinnKota would 1) suddenly began > advertising their product as "COOL POWER" and 2) simultaneously change the > rating of their trolling motors from "horsepower" to "thrust" --- at the > same time that Joe has stated they began using his technology in their > products based upon the disclosure of trade secrets that they obtained from > Dr. Roger Hastings who had signed a Confidential Disclosure Agreement with > Joseph Newman. Hmm, I just looked again at the trollingsmotors.com website and saw this maximizer circuit which comes with these motors. It seems Joe might have misunderstood, how these motors work. This maximizer circuit seems to be a square pulse driver circuit, which just pulses the input voltage with a fixed frequency and a variable duty cycle across the motor coils. This way also at slower speed they have almost no power losses in any "regulating input voltage" device, cause the motor coils just get "on" or "off", but with a very fast timing and changed duty cycle... This is why they can advertise them as "COOL POWER" ! The same is true in hobby RC controlled aircraft modells, where they use these type of switching power motor speed regulators... At lower speed there is almost no power loss ! Also the motors still draw around 45 Amperes maximum ! That means that there is definatley NO Newman technology in them ! I bet, if they would have stoolen Joe´s technology, they should have used small amperage and higher voltages. Maybe they also convert the low voltage first to a higher voltage and then feed it to the motor coils ? How many windings do these motor coils have and what gauge size ? If their Maximizer circuit does not generate a High Voltage input to the coils and the motor coils are still driven with 12 or 24 Volts, Joe could not say, that it is his technology that they are using. I guess an efficient Newman motor must use voltages above 100 Volts input and input current less than 1 Ampere to be an efficient Newman motor... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 12:36:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA27921; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:35:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:35:21 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3603920D.DC34AC3@harti.com> References: <19980919041607.20546.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> <360335E1.E2C0C7BF@GroupZ.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 09:34:11 -1000 To: freenrg list From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Minn Kota sales strategy ? Boat motor really OU ??? Resent-Message-ID: <"kc5Dm1.0.6q6.vT01s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6528 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan - > How many Watts does this represent ? > > Is there any conversion table ? I guess it is hard to > convert, cause it also depends on the propeller > screw used under water and its efficiency ! Pushing off against a huge flat plate having very little 'slip' through the water due to it's size might, say, produce 100 pounds of thrust at 1/100 of a watt of energy consumption. It would hardly move during the pushing interval, so very little force-through-distance occurs during the production of thrust. Pushing off against a very small plate with lots of slip to get the 100 pounds of thrust would require moving the 100 pounds of force through quite a bit of distance in the same time as the case above, with an obviously much higher energy requirement. The point is that any specified amount of thrust can can involve power requirements ranging from zero to infinity. And that's independent of boat speed too, although obviously lower hull speed tends to mean lower power required. In other words, saying an outboard motor has "x pounds of thrust" is *very* non-specific while at the same time sounding very much so, making it a marketer's dream phrase. They probably teach this sort of thing in marketing courses somewhere. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 12:50:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA30509; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:41:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:41:04 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980919001350.00f89480@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 09:39:51 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. Resent-Message-ID: <"IiZd7.0.bS7.GZ01s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6529 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee - > It would also account for the increased time delay of > signals from these satellites (at least on 1/2 of its > orbit. It's not a time delay they measured, it was the doppler shift - a phase shift in the frequency of the signal. That implies that the craft are slowing down faster than they should be, not moving farther away faster. Neither do the signal shifts come and go as the earth orbits. The graph shows a very consistent area of data points well clustered along a straight line. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 13:32:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA09531; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:31:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:31:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980919004129.00f94db0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:41:29 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Good bye Maxwell-Einstein-Field Theories... In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980911011402.00fa3d10@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZEXWE1.0.pK2.RI11s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6530 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:46 AM 9/19/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Lee Markland wrote: > >> At 02:20 AM 9/19/98 +0000, you wrote: >> >> I vote Intentional. It was the money interests, always the money interests. >> Didn't J.P. Morgan back out of Tesla's transmitted or "aetheral" >> electricity because he couldn't charge for it. "No place to put the meters". >> >> The first guy that comes up with a "free energy" machine or device that >> works, will be a dead man unless he just gifts it to society as a >> humanitarian, a "get them bastards "gesture, elsewise the powers to be will >> bury his butt, probably he will "commit suicide". >> > >This is exactly what was said by Moray B. King in "Tapping the Zero-Point >Energy." Near the end of the book he mentioned what he calls the >"Prometheus Game". I quoted part of this on this discussion group a few >years ago. > >I don't think there's any way out. Whoever comes up with a free-energy >device will just have to publish it far and wide for everyone who wishes >to use it, no strings attached. Otherwise, if he lives very long, he >will not lead a pleasant life, due to various factors in this society. > >Zack Is this why the government is ignoring Joe Newman (been monitoring a flame war on vortex). Seems Joe carted a 12,000 lb contraption off to D.C. and met wide acclaim, but the gov. spurned him. Now who really controls the gov. Gov. is only a tool, neither good or bad, just a tool. Who wields the tool? Who else the money power. Who is the money power. In part it is those who control energy (in part, control of energy is yet another tool). Is anyone familiar with Henderson's Homopolar generator. I understand his son is trying to continue his Dad's work. I have an interesting book The Homopolar Handbook, Thomas Valone, M.A..,P.E. Foreward by Gary L. Johnson, PhD. Integrity Research Institute, 1994. Valone has a number of very interesting books published you guys might be interested in. Including Teslas History in Western NY and T.T. Brown's Electrogravitics Research in the 1950's. Integrity Research Institute 1377 K St NW Suite 204 Washington. DC 20005 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 13:32:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA09553; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:31:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:31:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980919005352.00f95140@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:53:52 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Atomic particles, Mitochondria, Silver, Life span In-Reply-To: <00c401bde3cd$08e88960$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"uRaUz.0.4L2.SI11s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6531 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:57 PM 9/19/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee, Dean, Bill and All > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >>What does a proton have to do with chemistry anyway? > > >An atom where there are equal protons and electrons is neutral, >more protons than electrons gives a positive ion, and more electrons than >protons gives a negative ion. (Or I need to refresh my memory :-) ) I guess in theory it works out. But could there be some other cause for ionic differential. I have to go back to the idea that neutrons were conceptualized to give weight to mass (mass gravity again) and if a neutron then of course a proton because of the concept of polarity. Put it this way. Conceptualize the process without neutrons and protons. All we have is flow and differential in valiance (is that a good word). More electrons on one side than on the other, a constant imbalance, charging the ions in the atmosphere. Wouldn't it still work the same without invoking protons? > >Chemists make use of ionic values for making compounds with non covalent >bonds. I do agree that many of the other 1300 or so 'identified' particles >have highly suspect properties that do not fit in everywhere. > --------------------------------------------------- > >I am not brushing aside reports for colloidal silver, I would just like to >see a large, scientific study before I could feel safe taking it myself. -------------------------------------------------------- In truth I would too, but can we trust the AMA, FDA or the drug industry? I think not. They have their own interests to serve. And the last thing the government wants is for the common folk to draw Social Security pass their eligibility age. In fact it is in the best interests of the system to make it difficult to draw down retirement benefits. That privilege being left to the elite. (Like Claude Pepper who signed the Federal Reserve Bill in 1913 and retired from Congress only 2 years ago, I think he has died since then, allegedly). The press said he was in his 90's, but if he signed the Federal Reserve Bill and retired in 1996 he was a lot older than his 90's. > >Regarding the long life-span monks: >Again, I cannot find the book containing the name of the monks I described >earlier. I believe they live somewhere around Tibet (some sub-set of the >usual Tibetan monks). They were also featured on an Equinox TV program. I >have found a site listing minimal calorie intake to increase life span >though: Minimal caloric intake does lengthen lives (sorry meat and potatoes). They've proved it with lab rats. The more we eat, the faster and more we breath, the more work the body does to metabolize food and oxygen and thus the faster it wears down the machine. Reduce work and you prolong useful life. Maybe one of the reasons women outlive men :) Lee Markland From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 13:32:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA09663; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:31:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:31:37 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980919020052.00f9c100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:00:52 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980911012324.00fa15e0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"XE8Kr2.0.sM2.eI11s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6533 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:23 AM 9/19/98 -1000, you wrote: >Lee - > > > Have they performed such tests at different > > locations (poles, equator, night side, day side and > > different latitudes). Rate of fall on Earth is > > historical 32.2ft per second squared. Wonder what > > it is now? > >Extremely accurate gravitometers are in regular use around the world in >geological surveys. I don't know why these wouldn't reveal any small change. Actually Gravitometers are not accurate. They produce anomalies to the extent that, from a friend who did patent research for petroleum, the highest readings were over porous rocks and the lowest over igneous rock. In any event they have forgone gravitometers for exploration in favor of 3D-FTG methods using sound waves. http://www.bellgeo.com/ The only real way to test anything is with a drop test. > > > Can the Earth's gravitational field be diminishing, > > thus causing the moon to recede and its atmosphere > > to shrink? > >I don't know why the moon has been receding either, but I bet a very slight >*increase* in gravity would shrink the atmosphere by a noticable amount. Good try Rick. An increase in gravity would increase atmospheric pressure as well. A decrease in gravity of course would do the reverse. Bear in mind, if gravity is a physical process then it can't increase, but can only decrease as the engine that drives it cools down (the cooling continuum) and an a decrease in gravity will cause us to lose our atmosphere. What is at risk? Nothing just life on Earth, if not ours then our precious replicated DNA (children). >And a like increase in the sun's gravity would shrink its surface and drag >on outbound spacecraft. Again, a mechanism to increase gravity. Like a motor whose bearings are failing speeding up, I don't think so. It would drag and slow down. Lee I don't have the skill to evaluate if a single >given magnitude of change would account correctly for both phenomena, but >at least the sense (direction) is right. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 13:34:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA09591; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:31:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:31:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980919010403.00f8d100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 01:04:03 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Colloidal Silver, special water, cell death. In-Reply-To: <3603c62e.61561790@mail.mcleodusa.net> References: <077501bde396$adf29e00$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> <077501bde396$adf29e00$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HpJpd1.0.YL2.UI11s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6532 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Left out one thing in the commonality below. If they live in mountains then they are living in a reduced G environment. We know that the gravitational pull over mountain ranges is less than that over say ocean trenches thanks to gravitational mapping of the planet by satellites. Two years ago I downloaded from a Canadian Government site, some gravitational anamoly maps, the one I still have shows that the gravitational pull over the deepest part of the ocean floors (like the Mariannas Trench) is the greatest. I think I still have one that shows that the gravitational pull over the high plateaus and mountain ranges is the lowest. Hence matter absorbs gravity. A reduced G environment would definitely prolong life. NASA has discovered that using lab rats and that rats exposed to high G's age (deteriorate) quicker and dies sooner. Lee At 03:15 PM 9/19/98 GMT, you wrote: >Hi Bill, > >On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:28:11 -0400, you wrote: > >>>>There are some monks that live somewhere in the mountains (low oxygen), >>eat >>>>small but varied meals, do moderate exercise and meditate/pray. Not a >>very >>>>stressful existence. Their average life expectancy is above 100! >>> >>>Actually there are about 5 or 6 known groups of very long lived people, >> >>Who, where, you hear these things, but until you can get facts I chalk it up >>to urban legend. > >Both Scientific American and National Geographic have had long >articles on these groups of people. I don't know about the others, >but there have been 4 groups written up. They lived in the 1) Andes, >2) Pyrenees, 3) Caucasus and 4) Himalayas. > >Common to all were: 1) large populations over 100 years of age >(compared to developed countries), 2) mountainous regions, 3) the need >to climb and descend mountain paths almost daily and 4) a diet of a >milk-based food plus grains (yogurt/wheat in 2 cases, heavily buttered >tea/oats/barley in another, don't recall the 4th). > >Some of the oldest people in 2 areas smoked cigarettes all their lives >(over 110 years) and some rode horses, donkeys, etc. for sport (over >100 years of age). > >I had saved the National Geographic one article was in, but can't find >it right now. I think it was from the mid-80's. NG has a series of >CD-ROMs out (pretty cheap) that contain all of the NGs from the >beginning. > > > -- Dean -- from Duh Moines (CDP, KB0ZDF) > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 15:21:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA11667; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:19:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:19:33 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:20:39 +0200 Message-Id: <199809202220.AAA05489@cache.hb.vossnet.de> X-Sender: WDBAUER@pop3.vossnet.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: WDBAUER@vossnet.de (W.D. BAUER) Subject: Re: The N-ZPF Motor v1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"CDFAh1.0.-r2.qt21s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6534 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hallo Jean Louis ! I have a question regarding to your announcement of your quite originally ZPE- motor You wrote: >This ZPF Motor is based on the Trouton-Noble experiment that I have performed >on April 24th, 1998. The Trouton-Noble experiment was intended to detect the >motion of the earth through the aether: When a freely suspended parallel plate >capacitor is charged at high voltage, it turns "spontaneously" so as to >minimize its total energy, and seek a stable position parallel to the >direction of motion of the earth through the aether (the Zero Point Field). > >When the voltage is applied with my Wimshurst machine the rotor (the >capacitor) begins to turn counter-clockwise (whichever of the HV polarities) >at about 10 RPM. Until now, the effect of polarity reversal was ignored. As a >result, the capacitor behaves like a simple waterwheel in the aether.... > >You will find all pictures and diagram at : >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/zpfmotor.htm > If this motor is driven really by the ZPE-aether wind then you should see that the operation force of this motor changes daily and yearly due to the motion of earth relatively to the direction of this aether wind. Do you have untertaken experiments regarding such effects ? It is even possible with such (long-time and laborious) experiments to find certain preference directions in space. How do you have excluded the influence of electrostatic stray fields from atmosphere which are bend in the near of the soil if metallic things are present in the next environment ? Sincerly Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 15:32:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA18657; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:30:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:30:08 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980919223022.00679e10@mail.wincom.net> X-Sender: wood@mail.wincom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:30:22 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wood Subject: Re: Minn Kota sales strategy ? Boat motor really OU ??? Resent-Message-ID: <"xed1f2.0.RZ4.l131s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6535 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:57 PM 9/18/98 -0600, you wrote: >Joe has stated that, "The utilization of the term 'thrust' rather than >'horsepower' was a deliberate attempt by MinnKota to hide the nature of the >revolutionary efficiencies obtained through their production and sale of a >plundered Newman Motor. > Thrust is a marketing ploy. Most people don't really know how to compare HP to thrust. This is dependant on prop. Using some of my limited background in aviation you can get a prop to get you in the air quicker (more thrust) or to go faster once you are flying(Less thrust but pushes you farther through the air per revolution). It is a trade off and to a certain extent a 100HP engine still gives the same hp no matter what the prop. You may think of it as driving your car in first gear all the time or fourth all the time. More thrust in first for around town but once on the highway you probably want to go faster so you need fourth. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 16:18:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA11151; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:16:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:16:31 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:26:08 -0600 To: leoguitar@vossnet.de From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Minn Kota Maximizer circuit secrets ?? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA11071 Resent-Message-ID: <"WnRNK1.0.qj2.Dj31s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6536 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Evan Soule wrote: > >> >sno wrote: >> > >> >> Its a more accurate rating than horse power, as it >> >> takes into account the shape of the propellor....easier >> >> to compare watts in to actual push....steve opelc >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> >So what does 70 pounds of thrust really mean ? >> > >> >Does it mean, if you put the motor under water and power it up >> >full speed and you attach a scale to it, so it can not move away, >> >the scale would show 35 Kg (70 pounds) weight on it, >> >so as if the motor would pull on the scale-spring with 35 kg weight ? >> > >> >How many Watts does this represent ? >> > >> >Is there any conversion table ? >> >I guess it is hard to convert, cause it also depends >> >on the propeller screw used under water and its efficiency ! >> > >> >So it is probably a trick of Minn Kota not to say the horsepower >> >or Watts output of the motor itsself ! >> > >> > >> >Regards, Stefan. >> > >> > >> >-- >> >> Dear Stefan, >> >> In the newest Edition of Joe's book, he has Affidavits from individuals, >> who attempted to obtain from civil engineers and physics professors, a >> conversion between "THRUST" and "horsepower" --- these individuals were >> unable to provide such a conversion. > >I see, yes it is probably difficult, cause the efficiency of the propeller >screws goes into it too... > >> >> >> >> >> What I have found curious is that MinnKota would 1) suddenly began >> advertising their product as "COOL POWER" and 2) simultaneously change the >> rating of their trolling motors from "horsepower" to "thrust" --- at the >> same time that Joe has stated they began using his technology in their >> products based upon the disclosure of trade secrets that they obtained from >> Dr. Roger Hastings who had signed a Confidential Disclosure Agreement with >> Joseph Newman. > >Hmm, I just looked again at the trollingsmotors.com website and saw this >maximizer circuit which comes with these motors. > >It seems Joe might have misunderstood, how these motors work. >This maximizer circuit seems to be a square pulse driver circuit, which just >pulses >the input voltage with a fixed frequency and a variable duty cycle across >the motor coils. >This way also at slower speed they have almost no power losses in any >"regulating input voltage" device, cause the motor coils just get "on" or >"off", but >with a very fast timing and changed duty cycle... > >This is why they can advertise them as "COOL POWER" ! >The same is true in hobby RC controlled aircraft modells, where they use >these type of switching power motor speed regulators... >At lower speed there is almost no power loss ! > > >Also the motors still draw around 45 Amperes maximum ! >That means that there is definatley NO Newman technology in them ! > >I bet, if they would have stoolen Joe´s technology, they should >have used small amperage and higher voltages. > >Maybe they also convert the low voltage first to a higher voltage >and then feed it to the motor coils ? > >How many windings do these motor coils have and what gauge size ? > >If their Maximizer circuit does not generate a High Voltage input to the coils >and the motor coils are still driven with 12 or 24 Volts, Joe could >not say, that it is his technology that they are using. > >I guess an efficient Newman motor must use voltages above 100 Volts input and >input current less than 1 Ampere to be an efficient Newman motor... > >Regards, Stefan. > > >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com >Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net Dear Stefan, It is incorrect to only say "Joe teaches low current and HIGH voltage." This is what Joe has specificially said relative to his technology: Joseph Newman's Motor/Generators have generally been designed with the optimal purpose of "achieving the LEAST amount of current inputed to have the GREATEST amount of atom alignment in the conductor material (which causes the GREATEST magnetic field)." Note: Model 12 MinnKota Motor (Pre-Newman Motor) had a 2.5 inch diameter. Model 40 MinnKota Motor (Post-Newman Motor) had a 4 inch diameter. This increase in diameter size and high efficiency (per Joseph Newman's teachings) occurred ONLY after Dr. Roger Hastings traveled to my home/lab in the early 1980s and mastered such teachings and is only ONE example of a number of applications of specific technologies disclosed by Joe to Roger Hastings. It was in 1983 that Roger Hastings began working as a consultant to MinnKota Motors. Roger Hasting's brother, John Hastings worked full time at Minn-Kota. It was in 1985 that MinnKota began using technologies and trade secrets originally disclosed to Roger Hastings by Joseph Newman which resulted in the first Newman Energy Motor produced by MinnKota (without Joe's permission or contract). The following is the Confidentiality and Work Contract/Disclosure Agreement signed by Roger Hastings in 1981 and 1982: TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN I, Roger Hastings, on this day of September 26, 1981, am being shown and having explained to me a new source of energy device which has energy output greater than energy input (by use of Magnetic Energy) and which has U.S. and Foreign patents pending. I am being shown this in strict confidence and I will not disclose this information to any one else. I also agree that any improvements or inventions which I may develope from or as a result of the disclosure I have been shown and had explained will be the sole property of Joseph Westley Newman. [Signed] Dr. Roger Hastings (The above is in addition to numerous additional Disclosure Documents and Declarations signed by Dr. Hastings.) At one point Dr. Hastings told Joseph Newman that MinnKota would be very interested in utilizing Joe's technologies in their new Motors. Joe told Roger Hastings that he would be very interested in discussing a contract/royalty agreement with the company for production purposes. It was shortly after this that Dr. Hastings ceased all contact with Joseph Newman (other than to say "please do not release my telephone numbers/address because all the people who are continually contacting me are interfering with my business and personal life.") and MinnKota Corp. began employing Joseph Newman's technology in their motors. Joe has said that he gives credit to Roger Hastings for "mastering my work." Roger once said on the national CBS Evening News Broadcast: "If you have any conscience, you can't walk away from this (Joe's technology)." Well, Roger was apparently "right" in a _reverse_ sort of way: "He didn't walk away from it, and he had no conscience." Someone once said that "theft" is one of the HIGHEST (lowest?) forms of "flattery." Evan Soule' From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 16:43:38 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA24454; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:42:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:42:03 -0700 From: mindtech@nor.com.au Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980920095914.006f0dac@pophost.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:59:14 +1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980911012324.00fa15e0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hJepJ2.0.-z5.B541s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6537 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >1. The moon is receding from the Earth at a rate of 2 inches per year. > >2. In the last 7 years the Earth's atmospheric shell has diminished by 5 >miles. > >3. The apparent size of the sun has shrunk by 400 miles in the last 7 years. > >When is the last time anyone performed a gravity drop test, certified. > >Lee Markland > This points directly to the link between mass, variable time flow and gravity. It is a process of energetic exchange between them resultant in overall stability. Peter Nielsen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 16:53:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA27614; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:51:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:51:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980919052155.00a43e10@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 05:21:55 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980919001350.00f89480@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"e4-wN.0.Jl6.PE41s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6538 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:39 AM 9/19/98 -1000, you wrote: >Lee - > > > It would also account for the increased time delay of > > signals from these satellites (at least on 1/2 of its > > orbit. > >It's not a time delay they measured, it was the doppler shift - a phase >shift in the frequency of the signal. That implies that the craft are >slowing down faster than they should be, not moving farther away faster. >Neither do the signal shifts come and go as the earth orbits. The graph >shows a very consistent area of data points well clustered along a straight >line. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI Thanks for the correction. Miscommunication. I understand and understood that the signals received indicated that the craft were slowing down faster than they should be, not moving away faster. Thinking about doppler. Is this a result of an electronic signal being received from the craft itself? They use doppler in aircraft, especially on military craft for bombing runs and airdrops. It measures, to my knowledge, the time delay between interogation and return. I'm talking however about radar. Concerning the analysis of radio transmissions from these craft then, and I am assuming they are using radio transmissions to measure the doppler shift. Could you explain to me please, in plain language say understandable by a 6th grader, how that works. You really have my interest here, and will add to my education and edification. I've caveated my request for clear language comprehensible to a 6th grader so I can pass it on to my nephew. Thanks. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 17:06:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA31619; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:03:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:03:06 -0700 Message-ID: <003801bde42a$0f591e60$819cfbd0@default> Reply-To: "Clyde Knight Jr." From: "Clyde Knight Jr." To: Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:03:10 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"LMppu1.0.lj7.vO41s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6539 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee and All I think that you are on the right track... However if the Sun is shrinking as you hypothesized then this means the Sun is collapsing in on itself therefore its gravatational force will be magnified and its core would be dense. ie The birth of a black hole even thought the Sun is not large enough to become a black hole this is the idea that I think that you were getting at.. Clyde -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, September 19, 1998 2:32 PM Subject: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. >In regards to the following which I posted last night. It dawned on me as I >was falling asleep that perhaps the apparent shrinkage of the sun might be >a clue as to why the spaceships, previously posted, seem to be slowing down >as they leave our solar system. > >Hypotheses: Either the sun is shrinking and hence its gravitational pull is >diminishing, thus the Earth is moving in a wider orbit. Or the Earth's >gravitational pull is diminishing causing the Earth to move in a wider >orbit - or both. > >If the orbit of the Earth were to widen, then that would account for the >apparent shrinkage of the sun, by the 400 miles mentioned. > >It would also account for the increased time delay of signals from these >satellites (at least on 1/2 of its orbit. On the other half of its orbit, >the signals would be reaching us sooner. > >Questions: At what point on our orbit are these measurements of time delay >being made? Or they being made on all points on the orbit? > >When was the last time we measured our distance to the sun? How do we >measure our distance to the sun? What degree of accuracy is involved in the >method used? >How can we accurately measure our distance to the sun? The only methodology >I can think of that would yield accurate results is to reflect some >frequency off the sun and record its return. All other methods are >mathematical constructs based on assumptions. > >Are there any tools available to obtain such measurements, something more >scientific and reliable than mathematical theories based on assumptions? > > > > >NASA and the Astronomers have reported three events as of late. > >Events I think might be related, however they are scrabbling for >conventional explanations. > >1. The moon is receding from the Earth at a rate of 2 inches per year. > >2. In the last 7 years the Earth's atmospheric shell has diminished by 5 >miles. > >3. The apparent size of the sun has shrunk by 400 miles in the last 7 years. > >When is the last time anyone performed a gravity drop test, certified. > >Have they performed such tests at different locations (poles, equator, >night side, day side and different latitudes). Rate of fall on Earth is >historical 32.2ft per second squared. Wonder what it is now? > >Can the Earth's gravitational field be diminishing, thus causing the moon >to recede and its atmosphere to shrink? > >If so how much longer do we have before we go the way of Mars and the moon? > >Lee Markland > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 17:36:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA06829; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:34:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:34:57 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 00:36:13 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <36054d7e.329445379@mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"q32ZP2.0.dg1.ms41s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6540 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 09:39:51 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: [snip] >It's not a time delay they measured, it was the doppler shift - a phase >shift in the frequency of the signal. That implies that the craft are >slowing down faster than they should be, not moving farther away faster. >Neither do the signal shifts come and go as the earth orbits. The graph >shows a very consistent area of data points well clustered along a straight >line. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > I wonder if the blue shift due to decreasing stellar gravitational field with distance has been taken into account? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 17:43:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA09182; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:41:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:41:55 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809200043.RAA19815@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Resent-Message-ID: <"GzVz02.0.OF2.Iz41s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6541 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tim and all, I have done more experiments to explore the cooling. After this series of 4 experiments, I am now at a loss. The results were not what I expected. All 4 were done in my thermally insulated box. I measured its temperature gain as 5 deg.C/watt heat load. 1. I modified my interruptor for better contact, and slowed it down to about 400 rpm. This change caused a much higher current to flow through the 18,000 turn coil inside the box. I found: Experiment 1. Time inside temp outside temp current 0 24.5 deg.C 24.5 deg.C 2.5 to 3 mA at 405 Volts 10 min 25 25 20 25 24.5 30 25+ 24.5 40 25+ 25 1.5 to 2 mA So either the cooling matches the I^2*R heating, or the average current (measured with a 5mA moving coil meter) is no indication of the power dissipated??? Note for 0.8 watt for 2400 sec. is 1920 Joules. This anount of energy will heat 700g of Cu in the coil 7 deg.C with no heat loss. Experiment 2. A 2500 Ohm, 10w resistor was substituted for the coil. The coil was left in the box as a thermal mass. Time inside temp outside temp current 0 min 26 deg.C 26 1.5 to 2 mA 10 26 26.5 20 26 26.5 30 26 26.25 ~1 mA Experiment 3. Same as No. 2 except that the coil was removed from the box. The aluminum brushes on the interruptor were adjusted. They are slowly bent and eroded away. Time inside temp outside temp current 0 min 26 deg.C 27 ~2.5mA 10 27 26.5 20 27 26.5 30 27 26.5 ~1.5 mA Maybe something basic is wrong??? Experiment 4. Use a 150 Ohm resistor with a 12 Volt DC supply. No interruptor, coil, or 400V supply was used. Time inside temp. outside temp 0 min 25 deg.C 26 10 28 26 20 29.5 26 The resistor in No.4 feels warmer than that of No.3 Maybe the interruptor arc is where some of the emergy is going?? Any suggestions? -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 18:04:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA15301; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:03:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:03:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980919064207.00f70100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 06:42:07 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980920095914.006f0dac@pophost.nor.com.au> References: <3.0.5.32.19980911012324.00fa15e0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"TzrBa3.0.wk3.UH51s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6542 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:59 AM 9/20/98 +1000, you wrote: >>1. The moon is receding from the Earth at a rate of 2 inches per year. >> >>2. In the last 7 years the Earth's atmospheric shell has diminished by 5 >>miles. >> >>3. The apparent size of the sun has shrunk by 400 miles in the last 7 years. >> >>When is the last time anyone performed a gravity drop test, certified. >> >>Lee Markland >> > >This points directly to the link between mass, variable time flow and >gravity. It is a process of energetic exchange between them resultant in >overall stability. > >Peter Nielsen Thanks, but the statement says nothing. Meaning it lacks explanatory power. If by Mass, you mean weight, then maybe, however I just can't get beyond the circularity in the definition of mass. Or how mass is defined by its attractive power, which requires an assumption that mass is made up little corpuscles each attracted to each other. Mass causes gravity, gravity is caused by mass. And time flow. Already said all I'm going to say on that. A conceptual creation of man's mind. And a variable time flow? Hey though, if it works for you, whatever floats your boat. Excuse me, I just saw an elf scurry past. Going to have to catch it. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 18:18:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA18679; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:17:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:17:00 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 01:18:17 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <36065341.330921337@mail-hub> References: <199809200043.RAA19815@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <199809200043.RAA19815@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rB5CQ1.0.nZ4.CU51s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6543 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:43:12 -0700 (PDT), dave dameron wrote: [snip] >All 4 were done in my thermally insulated box. I measured its temperature >gain as 5 deg.C/watt heat load. [snip] >0 24.5 deg.C 24.5 deg.C 2.5 to 3 mA at 405 Volts This would appear to yield a coil resistance of about 130 ohms. [snip] >Experiment 2. >A 2500 Ohm, 10w resistor was substituted for the coil. The coil was left in the >box as a thermal mass. >Time inside temp outside temp current >0 min 26 deg.C 26 1.5 to 2 mA A 2500 ohm resistor with still only 2 mA current implies a power of 0.01 watt. This should produce a temperature rise of 0.05 deg. Well within the limits of your error bars. (I.e. exp. 2 is more or less meaningless). Note: The average voltage here is only 2500*2 mA=5 volt. >10 26 26.5 >20 26 26.5 >30 26 26.25 ~1 mA > >Experiment 3. >Same as No. 2 except that the coil was removed from the box. The aluminum >brushes on the interruptor were adjusted. They are slowly bent and eroded away. Ditto. >Time inside temp outside temp current >0 min 26 deg.C 27 ~2.5mA >10 27 26.5 >20 27 26.5 >30 27 26.5 ~1.5 mA > >Maybe something basic is wrong??? >Experiment 4. >Use a 150 Ohm resistor with a 12 Volt DC supply. No interruptor, coil, or >400V supply was used. v^2/R = 144/150 = .96 watt -> 4.8 deg. temp rise. Given that you got 3.5 deg. it would appear that your initial 5 deg./watt is slightly off (or you didn't wait long enough for it to stabilise). >Time inside temp. outside temp >0 min 25 deg.C 26 >10 28 26 >20 29.5 26 > >The resistor in No.4 feels warmer than that of No.3 Maybe the interruptor >arc is where some of the emergy is going?? > >Any suggestions? >-Dave > 1) I suspect a typo in a given value somewhere. 2) It has already been pointed out by several people that the current meter you are using is not appropriate to the task (i.e. rapidly switched current in an inductive circuit). 3) What are you using to measure the temperatures? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 18:23:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA19519; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:21:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:21:58 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 01:23:14 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <360757ec.332116486@mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X4mBn1.0.om4.sY51s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6544 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:23:57 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: [snip] >I don't know why the moon has been receding either, but I bet a very slight >*increase* in gravity would shrink the atmosphere by a noticable amount. >And a like increase in the sun's gravity would shrink its surface and drag >on outbound spacecraft. I don't have the skill to evaluate if a single >given magnitude of change would account correctly for both phenomena, but >at least the sense (direction) is right. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > Having made a fool of myself in one of the newsgroups on this issue, I was told that the moon is receding as it picks up angular momentum from the earth's rotation (which is slowing). This process is a consequence of tidal drag between the earth and the moon. Essentially the earth is "racing" around once per day, while the moon takes about 27-28 days to go around. So the earth tries to pull the moon around faster, and the moon tries to slow the earth down. Both succeed. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 19:22:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA04216; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:20:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:20:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3604682C.4621@lcia.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:27:56 -0400 From: B25B@LCIA.COM (RON BRENNEN) Reply-To: b25b@LCIA.COM X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Newman vs Min-kota Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ryl8P3.0.b11.PP61s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6545 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Evan: How can Newman sue Minn-kota if he does'nt have a patent? Some time ago when Newman first brought up the subject of Minn-kota infringing his tech. I bought a motor that they were advertising was four times more efficient than their other motors from K-Mart. I took it apart. The only reason it was more efficient was because it had pulse width modulation, while their other motors had resistors for speed control. Ron Brennen From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 21:05:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA03898; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:04:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:04:02 -0700 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com, sapogin@cnf.madi.msk.su, JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:32:03 -0700 Subject: PAGD and Cooling Effect Message-ID: <19980919.210111.3526.4.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-9,11-12,14,16,18-20,23,25,27,29,31,34-40,42, 44,46-48,51-56 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"1mQZ31.0.iy.nw71s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6546 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I was pleased to see the announcement that Dr Paulo Correa would giving an update on his progress with the Pulsed Abnormal Glow Discharge (PAGD) device at the Cold Fusion and New Energy Symposium on Oct. 11. There has been no change on his web page for over a year but I presume this announcement means Paulo and Alexandra are progressing toward their goal of practical application of this startling discovery. Does anyone have any current news about the Correas ? Also I have heard no comment about the article in Infinite Energy magazine "The Theory of Excess Energy in a PAGD Reactor (Correa Reactor)" by Prof. Lev G. Sagopin. Although Prof. Sapogin explains his idea in a different way that is not as easy to understand (for me at least), I think he has essentially a more rigorous way to describe a transient electron coherence, but in a gas plasma instead of in the "solid state plasma" of metal crystal lattice. Dr. Sapogin is trying to explain a transient energy gain in an electrical discharge (PAGD) occurring through a gas plasma. I was attempting to explain the temperature drops observed in a large Newman type coil of wire by Leon Dragone (1987) and J. Naudin which is an abnormal (non Joule heating) type of discharge through a very long "solid state plasma". Even if these ideas are not correct, they at least suggest a possible mechanism for a kind of "Maxwell's Demon" which should be considered before completely dismissing the possibility of cohering ambient fluctuation energy as a macroscopic "violation" of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. see J. Naudin's web page: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/NewMcool.htm I wish people would overlook Joseph Newman's quirks and focus on some of the apparent anomalies that may have been observed with his coils. The cooling effect, if it really exists, is an anomaly which can be quite easily measured and confirmed. I have yet to see an adequate conventional explanation for this. It certainly needs more experimental confirmation. Also the Correa PAGD is a very well documented but not independently confirmed observation (as far as I know). It seems very worthy of more attention. Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 21:07:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA03998; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:04:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:04:08 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: ddameron@earthlink.net, JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:33:02 -0700 Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Message-ID: <19980919.210111.3526.5.tv@juno.com> References: <199809200043.RAA19815@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-5,7,11,13,15-20,22,29,31-32,34,36,38-40,42, 45-47,49,51,53,55,57,59-61,64-70,73,75-96,98-100,102-106,108-169 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"AW3Ug2.0.M-.tw71s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6547 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dave, Thanks for your experiment report. In addition to the excellant observations by Robin van Spaandonk, I would like to add the following. When Leon Dragone did his "electroentropic" experiments he achieved the greatest temperature drops with a micrometer adjustable spark gap. He had to carefully adjust the gap to optimize the brightness of his load, a 60 watt light bulb. It was when optimal "tuning" was achieved that he was able to observe the cooling effect on the coil. His Newman type coil had a D.C. resistance of 18,000 ohms. As far as I know, after he died, nobody has tried to replicate it. That was why I was so happy to see the experiment by Jean-Louis Naudin. see his web page: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/Nmac0709.htm Leon Dragone told me that it was essential that the excess energy be "captured" from the coil for the cooling effect to be observed or else it would simply be converted back into heat. The coil would always have some amount of Joule heating from the current flowing through it. Therefore the only way the "negentropic" effect would be observed is if the negative entropy cooling effect exceeded the Joule heating. This requires that the cohered energy be utilized in some way other than adding to the Joule heating. In other words, the cohered energy would have to used somewhere other than inside the coil itself. In the case of the Newman motors like the one Jean-Louis Naudin built, some of this excess energy is presumably converted to mechanical energy. In the "Electroentropic device" of Leon Dragone, the cohered energy was presumably used to light the bulb. >From the description you give of your experiment, I would think that you are not putting as much energy into the coil as you think. It is not easy to measure pulses. Also, I think, your idea that the arc is using some of the measured energy is probably also part of the explanation. Leon Dragone told me that the arc he used was a "cold" arc which occurred at a point just after a corona discharge would be present between the electrodes. He said it was a blue colored spark as opposed to the hot white colored spark which was generated when the arc was not properly tuned. I have wondered how this might be similar to Paulo Correa's abnormal glow discharge. In any case, the arc that Leon described resulted in little heating of his arc gap whereas the white spark created significantly more heat. The objective of the cooling experiment is not to see how much energy you can put into the coil and make it disappear, but rather to stimulate the cooling effect with as little energy loss as possible. Please beware of the possible interference to thermocouple junctions by electromagnetic pulses generated by the commutator. Dennis Cravens has suggested that thermistor probes are better for this reason. You have further encouraged me to try my hand at this as well. It seems that an experiment to optimize the cooling effect might give clues necessary to optimize the thermal and/or zero-point energy coherence whether it is by transient electron coherence (TEC) or ZPE Pumping as suggested by Frederick Sparber. ( Frederick please explain more what you mean by this.) A few specific questions about your setup: What size wire is in your coil ? (AWG gauge) Have you found a good vendor for the wire ? (A good deal) Enamel coated, I presume ? What is the DC resistance of your coil ? Hope I have given some useful ideas, Best Regards, Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com ) On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:43:12 -0700 (PDT) dave dameron writes: >Hi Tim and all, >I have done more experiments to explore the cooling. After this series >of 4 experiments, I am now at a loss. The results were not what I expected. > >All 4 were done in my thermally insulated box. I measured its >temperature gain as 5 deg.C/watt heat load. >1. I modified my interruptor for better contact, and slowed it down to >about 400 rpm. This change caused a much higher current to flow through the >18,000 turn coil inside the box. >I found: >Experiment 1. >Time inside temp outside temp current >0 24.5 deg.C 24.5 deg.C 2.5 to 3 mA at 405 Volts >10 min 25 25 >20 25 24.5 >30 25+ 24.5 >40 25+ 25 1.5 to 2 mA > >So either the cooling matches the I^2*R heating, or the average >current >(measured with a 5mA moving coil meter) is no >indication of the power dissipated??? Note for 0.8 watt for 2400 sec. >is >1920 Joules. This anount of energy will heat 700g of Cu in the coil 7 >deg.C >with no >heat loss. > >Experiment 2. >A 2500 Ohm, 10w resistor was substituted for the coil. The coil was >left in the >box as a thermal mass. >Time inside temp outside temp current >0 min 26 deg.C 26 1.5 to 2 mA >10 26 26.5 >20 26 26.5 >30 26 26.25 ~1 mA > >Experiment 3. >Same as No. 2 except that the coil was removed from the box. The >aluminum >brushes on the interruptor were adjusted. They are slowly bent and >eroded away. >Time inside temp outside temp current >0 min 26 deg.C 27 ~2.5mA >10 27 26.5 >20 27 26.5 >30 27 26.5 ~1.5 mA > >Maybe something basic is wrong??? >Experiment 4. >Use a 150 Ohm resistor with a 12 Volt DC supply. No interruptor, coil, >or >400V supply was used. >Time inside temp. outside temp >0 min 25 deg.C 26 >10 28 26 >20 29.5 26 > >The resistor in No.4 feels warmer than that of No.3 Maybe the >interruptor >arc is where some of the emergy is going?? > >Any suggestions? >-Dave > > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 21:10:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA06441; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:08:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:08:32 -0700 Message-ID: <020901bde44c$162f7be0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Good bye Maxwell-Einstein-Field Theories... Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:25:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"OIw7y2.0.Ra1._-71s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6548 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I vote Intentional. It was the money interests, always the money interests. >Didn't J.P. Morgan back out of Tesla's transmitted or "aetheral" >electricity because he couldn't charge for it. "No place to put the meters". Cetainly there must be ways to transmit wireless electricity, but is it safe and how much would it cost? >The first guy that comes up with a "free energy" machine or device that >works, will be a dead man I disagree, perhaps in the past, but with the level of communication we have today there is no way for big brother to watch every person in the world. East German intelligence tried to watch all their citizens too, they ultimately failed too. unless he just gifts it to society as a >humanitarian, a "get them bastards "gesture, elsewise the powers to be will >bury his butt, probably he will "commit suicide". If someone makes this discovery, posts it to this list, how quickly do three or four of us have to die before you think a few thousand more find out about the info? There is just no way to control the flood gates anymore. >Too much at stake. Doesn't matter, they do not have the resources to do what you are suggesting. They missed the nukes in India right, intelligence just aint what it used to be. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 21:23:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA11359; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:20:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:20:38 -0700 From: harti@harti.com Date: Sun, 20 Sep 98 05:16:03 +0100 To: Message-Id: <980920051603108600@odin.dreams.de> Resent-Message-ID: <"tmdaR3.0.Pn2.LA81s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6549 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: QUIT From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 21:26:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13800; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:24:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:24:35 -0700 Message-ID: <360480E3.B03D92C5@harti.com> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 06:13:24 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: newman-list , dave dameron , freenrg-l , Evan Soule , "W.D. Bauer" Subject: QF simulations: Ideas how an OU Newman motor could work... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TVtuC2.0.ON3.1E81s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6550 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I just tried Quickfield and have succeeded with some help-files from Dieter Bauer to build a current carrying aircore coil and a cylindrical neodym permanent magnet. Here are some thoughts and some numbers: I don4t know yet, how I can see, what "L" the coil has inside Quickfield, so I am guessing this parameter. L= 50 Henries I have puting up 10 vertices of 1000 A as the coil. The coil has got inside Quickfield a displayed maximum of H= 35.000 A/m and B= 0.044 T= 44 mT maximum flux density in the center of this coil. This is something a Newman aircore coil can reach as H= n x I /length So as I=20 milliamps and n= 100.000 windings and length = 5 cm H= 40.000 A/m Now how much energy does one have to spend to generate this field inside the coil ? W= 0.5 L I^2 (not counting the losses inside the ohmic resistance) This now means 20 mA^2 x 50 Henries x 0.5 = 10 mWattsec Now Quickfield shows me, that a neodym permanent magnet in front of the aircore coil4s entrance is pulled into the coil with about 3000 Newton of force.(measured via QF) If we take this force= 3000 N as a constant for only 1 cm we already have a work done for: 3000 N x 1 cm = 30 Nm = 30 Wattsec So the mechanical energy generated by this device is 3000 times more than the electrical input needed ! Okay, this sounds too good to be true and also if we have some more losses due to heating the ohmic coil resistance, we still have more mechanical energy won, than puting in electrical energy to build up the coil4s field ?! BTW, if I use the same size steel instead of the neodym, the force generated is only about 250 Newton, so it is a factor 12 less mechanical energy generated, but still more than one needs for the electrical input. Thus Newman is probably right, if he says he can also build his Motor without permanent magnets at all ! Well, I hope I have setup all the Quickfield parameters right, so I have made no setup mistakes, but I can not find any errors so far. Can you all imagine that these numbers could be right ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 21:26:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13826; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:24:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:24:37 -0700 Message-ID: <36046CE5.C52A7B0A@harti.com> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:48:06 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, dave dameron , newman-list Subject: Re: Cooling Effect References: <199809200043.RAA19815@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gEYKa.0.pN3.3E81s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6551 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: dave dameron wrote: > Hi Tim and all, > I have done more experiments to explore the cooling. After this series of 4 > experiments, I am now at a loss. The results were not what I expected. > > All 4 were done in my thermally insulated box. I measured its temperature > gain as 5 deg.C/watt heat load. > 1. I modified my interruptor for better contact, and slowed it down to about > 400 rpm. This change caused a much higher current to flow through the 18,000 > turn coil inside the box. > I found: > Experiment 1. > Time inside temp outside temp current > 0 24.5 deg.C 24.5 deg.C 2.5 to 3 mA at 405 Volts > 10 min 25 25 > 20 25 24.5 > 30 25+ 24.5 > 40 25+ 25 1.5 to 2 mA > > So either the cooling matches the I^2*R heating, or the average current > (measured with a 5mA moving coil meter) is no > indication of the power dissipated??? Note for 0.8 watt for 2400 sec. is > 1920 Joules. This anount of energy will heat 700g of Cu in the coil 7 deg.C > with no > heat loss. > > Experiment 2. > A 2500 Ohm, 10w resistor was substituted for the coil. The coil was left in the > box as a thermal mass. > Time inside temp outside temp current > 0 min 26 deg.C 26 1.5 to 2 mA > 10 26 26.5 > 20 26 26.5 > 30 26 26.25 ~1 mA > > Experiment 3. > Same as No. 2 except that the coil was removed from the box. The aluminum > brushes on the interruptor were adjusted. They are slowly bent and eroded away. > Time inside temp outside temp current > 0 min 26 deg.C 27 ~2.5mA > 10 27 26.5 > 20 27 26.5 > 30 27 26.5 ~1.5 mA > > Maybe something basic is wrong??? > Experiment 4. > Use a 150 Ohm resistor with a 12 Volt DC supply. No interruptor, coil, or > 400V supply was used. > Time inside temp. outside temp > 0 min 25 deg.C 26 > 10 28 26 > 20 29.5 26 > > The resistor in No.4 feels warmer than that of No.3 Maybe the interruptor > arc is where some of the emergy is going?? > > Any suggestions? > -Dave > Hi Dave, you are at a Wattage level of 1 Watts only ! So try it just with using at least 10 Watts or better 50 Watts ! Then you can see much better, what is going on. At the 1 Watt level, you have much too many losses, like this arcing and thermal losses through the walls of your box, etc... Try 1500 Volts and and 11 mA input current ! That is about 16.5 Watts input ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 21:33:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA17255; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:30:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:30:44 -0700 Message-ID: <3603E609.AEBE9417@rockisland.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:12:41 -0700 From: Lee Markland Reply-To: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon References: <360757ec.332116486@mail-hub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"orYwx3.0.SD4.qJ81s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6552 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:23:57 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: > [snip] > >I don't know why the moon has been receding either, but I bet a very slight > >*increase* in gravity would shrink the atmosphere by a noticable amount. > >And a like increase in the sun's gravity would shrink its surface and drag > >on outbound spacecraft. I don't have the skill to evaluate if a single > >given magnitude of change would account correctly for both phenomena, but > >at least the sense (direction) is right. > > > >- Rick Monteverde > >Honolulu, HI > > > Having made a fool of myself in one of the newsgroups on this issue, I > was told that the moon is receding as it picks up angular momentum > from the earth's rotation (which is slowing). This process is a > consequence of tidal drag between the earth and the moon. > Essentially the earth is "racing" around once per day, while the moon > takes about 27-28 days to go around. So the earth tries to pull the > moon around faster, and the moon tries to slow the earth down. > Both succeed. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk I am aware of that theory, and only a theory it is, has not been proven can't be proven. However. Using solely the inverse square law and the "belief" that the gravitaional pull of the moon is 1/6th that of Earth. And objects fall on Earth (supposedly) at the rate of 32.2 ft per second^2. Then the rate of fall on the moon is according to Mass Gravity theory .165 that of Earth or 5.33 ft per second^2. Using as I said the ISL and figuring a distance of 250,000 miles center Earth to Center moon I come up with a tidal pull on Earth of .0001029 ft per second towards the moon. This is assuming that the gravitational force of the moon can even act through the stronger Earth's gravitational force. I have questions about that since NASA used the neutral point between the Earth and the moon to reacellerate the Apollo missions. A neutral point incidentally that was at 43,495 miles to 38,900 miles (depending on the distance between the two bodies). This is at variance with the 24,000 mile neutral point computed using Newtonian Equations of mass. Point here is that I find it hard to believe that the moon with such a weak pull can exert any tidal force at all on the Earth. But gee whiz. Theory is theory, holy and sacrosanct and one can't argue with one who knows the catechism front and back, except to say there ain't no god and at that point one gets burnt at the stake or excommunicated. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 21:35:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA18289; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:34:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:34:12 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980919073412.00faf100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 07:34:12 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. In-Reply-To: <36054d7e.329445379@mail-hub> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"PlVu71.0.gT4.3N81s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6553 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:36 AM 9/20/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 09:39:51 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >[snip] >>It's not a time delay they measured, it was the doppler shift - a phase >>shift in the frequency of the signal. That implies that the craft are >>slowing down faster than they should be, not moving farther away faster. >>Neither do the signal shifts come and go as the earth orbits. The graph >>shows a very consistent area of data points well clustered along a straight >>line. >> >>- Rick Monteverde >>Honolulu, HI >> >I wonder if the blue shift due to decreasing stellar gravitational >field with distance has been taken into account? > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk How about this. How about the idea that the theory of redshift is bassackwards, and a shift towards blue means the object is heading away from us, not vice versa. Posted something on that earlier. Light being in the Tetrahertz range. And the higher the frequency the less ability it has to penetrate. (Ex: Radar bounces off planes), ELF penetrates the Earth. Red is filtered out by 30' of water. Red is a higher frequency of light than blue. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 22:07:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA26790; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:06:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:06:33 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 00:16:37 -0600 To: b25b@LCIA.COM From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Newman vs Min-kota Resent-Message-ID: <"UEYIo1.0.RY6.Pr81s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6554 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi Evan: >How can Newman sue Minn-kota if he does'nt have a patent? >Some time ago when Newman first brought up the subject of >Minn-kota infringing his tech. I bought a motor that they >were advertising was four times more efficient than their >other motors from K-Mart. I took it apart. The only reason >it was more efficient was because it had pulse width modulation, >while their other motors had resistors for speed control. >Ron Brennen Dear Ron, There are aspects of this case which involve, among other things, Confidential Disclosure Documents signed by Dr. Roger Hastings. Since this matter has now been turned over to attorneys, answers that I could provide to your initial question above would be inappropriate. If Joseph Newman wishes to provide a specific answer at this time to your question, that would be up to him. You are welcome to contact him at: (602) 977-2813 and ask him. You can also ask him this Sunday morning: Joe can be reached by anyone, from any telephone, this Sunday from 9am-9:30am (Pacific Time)/12noon-12:30pm (Eastern) when he hosts his radio program. The telephone number to call: (602) 247-KFNX in Phoenix, 1100 on the AM dial. Regards, Evan Soule' From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 23:10:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA05651; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:08:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:08:18 -0700 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 02:09:03 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: WDBAUER@vossnet.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The N-ZPF Motor v1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows 95 sub 127 Resent-Message-ID: <"uCRDY3.0.DO1.Il91s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6555 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Dieter and all, On 20/09/1998 00:22:14, WDBAUER@vossnet.de wrote : << If this motor is driven really by the ZPE-aether wind then you should see that the operation force of this motor changes daily and yearly due to the motion of earth relatively to the direction of this aether wind. Do you have untertaken experiments regarding such effects ?>> Yes this experiment is under process, I need to rebuild the motor for with some addtional probes for an accurate measurement of the speed change and also I need to buy a new HV bipolar generator (full electronic) because the Wimshurst machine is very sensible to the humidity change and can't run continuously during many hours. --------------------- << It is even possible with such (long-time and laborious) experiments to find certain preference directions in space. >> YES, this is TRUE AND CHECKED, I shall soon post a video of the experiment about this. The Trouton-Noble capacitor experiment can give different results Vs its initial heading in space : - If the initial heading of the TN-Cap is the North-South axis, the TN-Cap TURNS to the axis East-West when the High Voltage is applied so as to minimize its total energy. - If the initial heading of the TN-Cap is the East-West axis, the TN-Cap DOES'NT TURNS or just tune a few degrees to be in lign with the "geographical" heading E-W. This experiment as been replicated successfully a lot of time with Patrick Cornille and myself and also presented at the the "Physical Interpretations of Relativity Theory - VI conference" at the Imperial college in London (UK) on September 12th, 1998. ------------------------- << How do you have excluded the influence of electrostatic stray fields from atmosphere which are bend in the near of the soil if metallic things are present in the next environment ? >> I have replicated successfully the Trouton-Noble in TWO different environnements (these two labs areas was at 50 kilometers far) and has you can see in my pictures, the second test has been conducted in a wider lab than the mine (the walls of this lab was at a distance of 2 meters of the TN-cap). You may see the Trouton-Noble experiment pictures experiment (at :http://members.aol.com/overunity2/html/troutnbl.htm) Best regards, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 23:24:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA07754; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:23:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:23:10 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:24:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809200624.XAA00006@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"v_h8F.0.2v1.Dz91s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6557 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Tim and all, At 08:33 PM 9/19/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Dave, > >Thanks for your experiment report. In addition to the excellant >observations by >Robin van Spaandonk, I would like to add the following. > > When Leon Dragone did his "electroentropic" experiments he achieved the >greatest >temperature drops with a micrometer adjustable spark gap. He had to >carefully adjust the gap to optimize the brightness of his load, a 60 >watt light bulb. It was when optimal "tuning" was achieved that he was >able to observe the cooling effect > on the coil. His Newman type coil had a D.C. resistance of 18,000 >ohms. > As far as I know, after he died, nobody has tried to replicate it. >That was why I was > so happy to see the experiment by Jean-Louis Naudin. > >see his web page: >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jlnaudin/html/Nmac0709.htm > I didn't think the Newman coils were tuned either for the cooling effect. You make a good point about a load for the energy. Am also thinking that the coils distributed capacitance and the pulses continuously charging it may allow for more current than first guessed. I did try some preliminary tests with an arc gap, but could not get a stable one with only 400 Volts. I tried just the coil and the coil in series with a 15 watt lamp which will glow dimly when the gap is shorted. The coil's DC resistance is 2000 Ohms. >Leon Dragone told me that it was essential that the excess energy be >"captured" >The objective of the cooling experiment is not to see how much energy you >can put into the coil and make it disappear, but rather to stimulate the >cooling effect with as little energy loss as possible. > >Please beware of the possible interference to thermocouple junctions by >electromagnetic pulses generated by the commutator. Dennis Cravens >has suggested that thermistor probes are better for this reason. I may just stop the current and just measure the coil's resistance after calibrating it with temperature. This could be done with thernocouples too and take only a few seconds for the reading. > >You have further encouraged me to try my hand at this as well. It seems >that an experiment to optimize the cooling effect might give clues >necessary to optimize the thermal and/or zero-point energy coherence >whether it is by >transient electron coherence (TEC) or ZPE Pumping as suggested by >Frederick >Sparber. ( Frederick please explain more what you mean by this.) >... I look foward to someone else trying this!! >A few specific questions about your setup: > >What size wire is in your coil ? (AWG gauge) 33 AWG, ~0.22mm diameter, about 0.7kg. So far only air core (no magnets). > >Have you found a good vendor for the wire ? (A good deal) I found this in a surplus store. The smaller diameter wire seems easier to find- especially the sizes too fine for me. The retail prices for small spools are way too high. > >Enamel coated, I presume ? Yes, and about 18,000 turns. > >What is the DC resistance of your coil ? 2000 Ohms. > >Hope I have given some useful ideas, Yes, Thanks. I will think about an appropriate external "load". >Best Regards, > >Tim Vaughan > -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 19 23:24:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA07710; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:23:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:23:05 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:24:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809200624.XAA29978@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Resent-Message-ID: <"GgNvf2.0.Ou1.9z91s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6556 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robin and all, At 01:18 AM 9/20/98 GMT, you wrote: >[snip] >>0 24.5 deg.C 24.5 deg.C 2.5 to 3 mA at 405 Volts > >This would appear to yield a coil resistance of about 130 ohms. >[snip] Do you mean 130K Ohms? The difference between this value and the coils 2000 Ohm DC resistance is from the reactance and the spark gap. The contribution of each is one thing I would like to find out. >>Experiment 2. >>A 2500 Ohm, 10w resistor was substituted for the coil. The coil was left in the >>box as a thermal mass. >>Time inside temp outside temp current >>0 min 26 deg.C 26 1.5 to 2 mA > >A 2500 ohm resistor with still only 2 mA current implies a power of >0.01 watt. This should produce a temperature rise of >0.05 deg. Well within the limits of your error bars. Yes. >(I.e. exp. 2 is more or less meaningless). Actually it shows the I^2*R loss of the coil is small too. This is why I was thinking that most of the approx. 1 watt from the power supply is going into the arc, not the coil reactance. The resistor was specifically chosen to have the resistance of the coil, but not its reactance. >Note: The average voltage here is only 2500*2 mA=5 volt. ... >>Experiment 4. >>Use a 150 Ohm resistor with a 12 Volt DC supply. No interruptor, coil, or >>400V supply was used. > >v^2/R = 144/150 = .96 watt -> 4.8 deg. temp rise. Given that you got >3.5 deg. it would appear that your initial 5 deg./watt is slightly off >(or you didn't wait long enough for it to stabilise). > Yes, that the calibration was about the same. I stopped when I was satisfied. >>Time inside temp. outside temp >>0 min 25 deg.C 26 >>10 28 26 >>20 29.5 26 >1) I suspect a typo in a given value somewhere. Not that I have found yet :-). >2) It has already been pointed out by several people that the current >meter you are using is not appropriate to the task (i.e. rapidly >switched current in an inductive circuit). This was the first time I used or mentioned it. I feel that a digital (sampled) meter would have been more of a failure than an "average" reading mechanical meter with these pulse currents, unless it was specifically made to measure this type of pulse waveform. There is also the factor of the coil's distributed capacitance- the type of measurements Greg W. was doing with his PMOD. >3) What are you using to measure the temperatures? Both laboratory dial and mercury thermometers. > Thanks for your comments, Robin. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 00:48:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA19251; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 00:43:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 00:43:29 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 07:44:46 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <360caa05.353140208@mail-hub> References: <199809200624.XAA29978@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <199809200624.XAA29978@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"POoC72.0.ei4.X8B1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6558 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:24:22 -0700 (PDT), dave dameron wrote: >Hi Robin and all, >At 01:18 AM 9/20/98 GMT, you wrote: >>[snip] >>>0 24.5 deg.C 24.5 deg.C 2.5 to 3 mA at 405 Volts >> >>This would appear to yield a coil resistance of about 130 ohms. >>[snip] > >Do you mean 130K Ohms? The difference between this value and the coils 2000 Yes, slip of the necktop computer ;). >Ohm DC resistance is from the reactance and the spark gap. The contribution >of each >is one thing I would like to find out. > >>>Experiment 2. >>>A 2500 Ohm, 10w resistor was substituted for the coil. The coil was left >in the >>>box as a thermal mass. >>>Time inside temp outside temp current >>>0 min 26 deg.C 26 1.5 to 2 mA >> >>A 2500 ohm resistor with still only 2 mA current implies a power of >>0.01 watt. This should produce a temperature rise of >>0.05 deg. Well within the limits of your error bars. >Yes. >>(I.e. exp. 2 is more or less meaningless). >Actually it shows the I^2*R loss of the coil is small too. Agreed, but I hadn't previously seen the R of the coil. >This is why I was thinking that most of the approx. 1 watt from the power >supply is going into the arc, not the coil reactance. The resistor was >specifically >chosen to have the resistance of the coil, but not its reactance. Understood. > >>Note: The average voltage here is only 2500*2 mA=5 volt. >... >>>Experiment 4. >>>Use a 150 Ohm resistor with a 12 Volt DC supply. No interruptor, coil, or >>>400V supply was used. >> >>v^2/R = 144/150 = .96 watt -> 4.8 deg. temp rise. Given that you got >>3.5 deg. it would appear that your initial 5 deg./watt is slightly off >>(or you didn't wait long enough for it to stabilise). >> >Yes, that the calibration was about the same. I stopped when I was satisfied. >>>Time inside temp. outside temp >>>0 min 25 deg.C 26 >>>10 28 26 >>>20 29.5 26 > >>1) I suspect a typo in a given value somewhere. >Not that I have found yet :-). (You found mine ;) > >>2) It has already been pointed out by several people that the current >>meter you are using is not appropriate to the task (i.e. rapidly >>switched current in an inductive circuit). > >This was the first time I used or mentioned it. I feel that a digital I was referring to all the posts both here and on vortex re. the Newman motor measurements. Your system would appear to be sufficiently similar to be subject to the same measurement considerations. >(sampled) meter would have been more of a failure than an "average" reading >mechanical meter with these pulse currents, unless it was specifically made >to measure this type of pulse waveform. There is also the factor of the >coil's distributed capacitance- the type of measurements Greg W. was doing >with his PMOD. Yes, you are likely to have a complex waveform. I think you'll at least need a scope as well. > >>3) What are you using to measure the temperatures? >Both laboratory dial and mercury thermometers. How are you ensuring good (and consistent) thermal contact between thermometer and coil? (And does coil temp. vary with position at which it is measured?) [snip] You seem to have demonstrated that only resistive losses lead to heat production in the coil, which doesn't really seem all that extraordinary ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 03:39:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA02962; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:36:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:36:31 -0700 Message-ID: <009401bde482$ac4f4700$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Sixth Grader's Doppler Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:25:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Xmgau.0.Ck.kgD1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6559 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland >Thinking about doppler. Is this a result of an electronic signal being >received from the craft itself? > >They use doppler in aircraft, especially on military craft for bombing runs >and airdrops. >It measures, to my knowledge, the time delay between interogation and >return. I'm talking however about radar. > >Concerning the analysis of radio transmissions from these craft then, and I >am assuming they are using radio transmissions to measure the doppler shift. > >Could you explain to me please, in plain language say understandable by a >6th grader, how that works. Think of an ambulance passing you with it's sirens on. As the ambulance approaches you its tone gets higher. As it passes away the tone gets lower. Its the same way that microwave and laser speed traps work. The distance away doesn't matter, it's the relative velocity. With RADAR (RAdio Direction And Ranging), the signal transit time determines the Range, and the Doppler shift determines direction. Blue light penetrates water further than red because it has greater energy. Gamma 'rays' are really very high frequency light, and pass through most substances. >From solid state laser science we know that red light is lower frequency than blue because the resonance cavities have to be a multiple of the wavelength. For instance, with a 480nm cavity we get blue light, and with a 670nm cavity we get red light. In this case the theory fits the practise. By the way, what exactly is a 'sixth grader'? Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 03:41:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA04412; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:40:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:40:57 -0700 Message-ID: <009c01bde483$4457dee0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: The N-ZPF Motor v1.0 Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:41:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"7dLLF1.0.s41.vkD1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6560 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis and All -----Original Message----- From: JNaudin509@aol.com ><< It is even possible with such (long-time and laborious) experiments to find > certain preference directions in space. >> > >YES, this is TRUE AND CHECKED, I shall soon post a video of the experiment >about this. The Trouton-Noble capacitor experiment can give different results >Vs its initial heading in space : >- If the initial heading of the TN-Cap is the North-South axis, the TN-Cap >TURNS to the axis East-West when the High Voltage is applied so as to minimize >its total energy. >- If the initial heading of the TN-Cap is the East-West axis, the TN-Cap >DOES'NT TURNS or just tune a few degrees to be in lign with the "geographical" >heading E-W. I may be mis-interpreting but does the TN-Cap seem to align to some 'absolute' inertial reference frame? Have you heard of the work being performed at the University of California by Richard Packard and Seamus Davis regarding liquid helium (a Bose-Einstein Condensate) and its connection with the 'absolute inertial reference frame'? Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 03:44:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA05312; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:43:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:43:48 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36054d7e.329445379@mail-hub> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 00:42:37 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. Resent-Message-ID: <"dzPHf.0.UI1.ZnD1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6561 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin - > I wonder if the blue shift due to decreasing stellar > gravitational field with distance has been taken into > account? I was wondering that, but I don't recall seeing it mentioned in the report. I might have missed it. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 03:53:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA06999; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:51:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:51:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3604DC3C.F4DB0A3C@harti.com> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:43:08 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l , newman-list Subject: Quickfield SIM as ZIP File available ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xy9F01.0.Bj1.EvD1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6562 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, everybody who wants to have the Quickfield files of an aircore coil attracting a permanent magnet, please email me and I will send it to you as a ZIP file via email... Just let me know, if you want it UUENCODED or via MIME encoded... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 03:58:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA08388; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:57:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:57:28 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980919052155.00a43e10@rockisland.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980919001350.00f89480@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 00:56:27 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. Resent-Message-ID: <"S_bcU2.0.-22.N-D1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6563 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee - > Thinking about doppler. Is this a result of an > electronic signal being received from the craft > itself? Yes. > They use doppler in aircraft, especially on military > craft for bombing runs and airdrops. It measures, > to my knowledge, the time delay between > interogation and return. I'm talking however about > radar. Actually doppler measures the frequency shift in the returning signal. That can be converted into relative velocity towards or away from the receiver. Of course such a measurement can also be taken with radar by taking simple time delay ranging at multiple times and calculating the position change with respect to time. But you can't do that on the spacecraft, since it's just an incoming signal and not a reflected radar signal. > Could you explain to me please, in plain language > say understandable by a 6th grader, how that works. Like a siren on a vehicle that sounds higher pitched coming towards you, then lower pitched after it passes you and is then moving away. You see relatively scrunched sound waves as the source moves towards you, and thus a higher pitch. They're stretched a bit as the source recedes for the opposite effect. The electromagnetic "sounds" from the spacecraft are not as "low pitched" as they ought to be, so the craft must not be receding into the distance as fast as expected. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 04:06:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA09977; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:05:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:05:44 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980919073412.00faf100@rockisland.com> References: <36054d7e.329445379@mail-hub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 01:04:31 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. Resent-Message-ID: <"oMTGq1.0.jR2.56E1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6564 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee - > Posted something on that earlier. Light being in the > Tetrahertz range. And the higher the frequency the > less ability it has to penetrate. (Ex: Radar bounces > off planes), ELF penetrates the Earth. Red is > filtered out by 30' of water. Red is a higher > frequency of light than blue. The blue shift refers to light of whatever frequency whose frequency has been raised (shifted *towards* the blue end of the spectrum) by some relative effect between source and reciever. Blue colored light itself need not be involved, it's just a name for the effect. This effect could be caused by relative velocity as in the example of the siren coming towards you, or by gravitational fields as Robin mentions. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 04:18:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA12726; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:17:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:17:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3604E23F.7441992C@harti.com> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:08:47 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. References: <36054d7e.329445379@mail-hub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"U-foz1.0.m63.EHE1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6565 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > Lee - > > > Posted something on that earlier. Light being in the > > Tetrahertz range. And the higher the frequency the > > less ability it has to penetrate. (Ex: Radar bounces > > off planes), ELF penetrates the Earth. Red is > > filtered out by 30' of water. Red is a higher > > frequency of light than blue. > > The blue shift refers to light of whatever frequency whose frequency has > been raised (shifted *towards* the blue end of the spectrum) by some > relative effect between source and reciever. Blue colored light itself need > not be involved, it's just a name for the effect. This effect could be > caused by relative velocity as in the example of the siren coming towards > you, or by gravitational fields as Robin mentions. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > Maybe the space craft is just slowing down, because the space is not soo empty as it seems to be and the spacecraft is just being braked by small particle like interstellar dust hitting the spacecraft surface and braking the speed this way ?? Just a simple thought might be the best answer... ?? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 04:26:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA14016; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:23:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:23:18 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <360757ec.332116486@mail-hub> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 01:22:06 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon Resent-Message-ID: <"zQFEj2.0.qQ3.ZME1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6566 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin - > Having made a fool of myself in one of > the newsgroups on this issue...[snip] :) -- which reminds me to mention (IOW, a disclaimer) that *I* don't think that the reason the atmosphere is shrinking, or any of these other phenomena, are really due to changes in gravity. I don't know that they aren't, but I seriously doubt it. The thermal explanation for the atmospheric effect sounds good enough to me, but I don't know enough about that subject to have a sense about it, so I really don't have much of an opinion there. I'm just playing along in the thread. The spacecraft thing is pretty intriguing though, because I do tend to believe that big G is composite, and may have variables in it. Just my opnion. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 04:26:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA14423; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:25:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:25:27 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 05:26:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. In-Reply-To: <36054d7e.329445379@mail-hub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"q5K_.0.HX3.cOE1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6567 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: [snip] I wonder if the blue shift due to decreasing stellar gravitational field with distance has been taken into account? ------------- Good point, are "WE" still moving out more + from point zero (Bbang!) -=se=- :) i vote red-shift? (doppler) in error somehow (yellow?) can we c it? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 04:27:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA14918; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:26:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:26:38 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <980920051603108600@odin.dreams.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 01:25:50 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"Z6QC_2.0.ne3.jPE1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6568 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan - >QUIT Darn. And we were just about to have you fired... - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 10:39:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA28034; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:37:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:37:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199809201738.OAA24103@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:36:35 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3603E609.AEBE9417@rockisland.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"oqP0A.0.yr6.yqJ1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6569 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote : > > And objects fall on Earth (supposedly) at the rate of 32.2 ft per second^2. > Then the rate of fall on the moon is according to Mass Gravity theory .165 > that of Earth or 5.33 ft per second^2. > > Using as I said the ISL and figuring a distance of 250,000 miles center Earth > to Center moon I come up with a tidal pull on Earth of .0001029 ft per second > towards the moon. > > This is assuming that the gravitational force of the moon can even act through > the stronger Earth's gravitational force. > > I have questions about that since NASA used the neutral point between the > Earth and the moon to reacellerate the Apollo missions. A neutral point > incidentally that was at 43,495 miles to 38,900 miles (depending on the > distance between the two bodies). This is at variance with the 24,000 mile > neutral point computed using Newtonian Equations of mass. > This neutral point exists between two bodies. And between two atoms ? Between two equal mass bodies, the neutral point is half the distance between its centers, is that right ? Can I say the same between two equal mass atoms ? So, wouldn't it be possible to say that inside a planet there is a neutral point caused by the sum of the attraction forces to the center of the planet and the attraction forces of the planet's upper layers ? This neutral point would be in a inner spherical layer. But this would be true only if the gravity is an attraction force. --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 10:50:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA02751; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:49:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:49:37 -0700 Message-ID: <36056857.54FE@tiac.net> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:40:55 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefan Hartmann CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: QF simulations: Ideas how an OU Newman motor could work... References: <360480E3.B03D92C5@harti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jYBA2.0.ug.n0K1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6570 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > If we take this force= 3000 N as a constant for only 1 cm we already > have a work done > for: > > 3000 N x 1 cm = 30 Nm = 30 Wattsec > > So the mechanical energy generated by this device is 3000 times more > than the electrical input needed ! Not really, some of the mechanical energy is only borrowed from the magnet, and must be paid back when you try to extract the magnet from the field. Many people have tried to trick nature by shutting off the field, etc, but no one has proven any actual energy gain so far. More importantly, no one has ever shown why you should expect to gain any energy in this type of process. We do know many reasons why it should not be possible, and there is a lot of evidence that supports that resoning. > Okay, this sounds too good to be true and also if we have some more > losses > due to heating the ohmic coil resistance, we still have more mechanical > energy won, than puting in electrical energy to build up the coil4s > field ?! Pull that magnet back out of that field and tell me how much free energy you just produced. This is exactly the same argument that claims that each time I pick up a bit of steel with a permanent magnet, the magnet ifself does measurable work. This is not true once you complete a full cycle! > BTW, if I use the same size steel instead of the neodym, the force > generated > is only about 250 Newton, so it is a factor 12 less mechanical energy > generated, > but still more than one needs for the electrical input. You have not generated any energy at all, you have only borrowed it and not paid for it by closing the cycle. This reminds me of the SMOT! > Thus Newman is probably right, if he says he can also build his Motor > without permanent magnets at all ! But a motor must have a closed loop. Why does the incomplete cycle you describe support Mr. Newman's claims? > Well, I hope I have setup all the Quickfield parameters right, > so I have made no setup mistakes, but I can not find any errors > so far. Close the loop and watch your free energy evaporate. > Can you all imagine that these numbers could be right ? > > Regards, Stefan. Stefan, its not a matter of the numbers. You are only looking at the energy 'loan' from lowing the magnets total energy state. When that magnet is pulled from the field, you must return all that energy. We have discussed this aspect of magnets and coils many times before. What we know of Nature tells us that we cannot gain any energy in such a process. You have not shown any reason to suspect such a gain in energy is possible at all. Can you show me an experiment where you do not have to pay this borrowed energy back after a full cycle, with all components returning to their exact starting positions and energy states? Not even SMOT was able to meet this challange. Looking at half the cycle only cannot prove over-unity operation, and does not support Mr. Newman's claims. The numbers may be correct but your model is not complete, so you cannot yet conclude that this supports Mr. Newman's claims. I have never seen a Newman motor in person, but the Minn-Kota does not appear to have the key features that made the original Newman motor unique. It seems that the Minn-Kota motor is much more conventional, and is based on the prior art rather than Mr. Newman's work. Looking at the agreement, I think Stefan was right when he suggested that Mr. Newman only has a valid case against Minn-Kota if their motor is over 100% efficient. If it is, and you bought two of them, you would never have to pay for energy again. I have been assured that the Minn-Kota motor does indeed discharge the battery used to power the motor, and does not charge it up during operation. This feature is a clear distinction between the Minn-Kota motor and Mr. Newman's claims. Lets hook two Minn-Kota motors together, then spin them up to speed and see how long they keep running with one as a motor and the other the generator. Will they keep running, or stop? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 17:39:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA08233; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:37:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:37:54 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:49:03 -0600 To: From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Minn Kota and Newman Resent-Message-ID: <"UbY_S3.0.B02.W_P1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6572 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Evan Soule' wrote: . > >> In the latest Edition of his book, Joe has reported the theft of his >> technology by MinnKota Corp. who have made a fortune employing his designs >> in their trolling motors. He has stated that Dr. Roger Hastings (who has >> been a consultant to MinnKota) has been the conduit of information to >> MinnKota. >> >> What I have found curious is that MinnKota would 1) suddenly began >> advertising their product as "COOL POWER" (a motor that runs cool) and 2) >> simultaneously change the nomenclature of their trolling motors from >> "horsepower" to "thrust" --- at the same time that Joe has stated they >> began using his technology in their products > >Well, I looked up Minn Kota on the web, and found this site: > >http://www.northlandmarine.com/MinnMaxxumBowMnt.htm#Anchor##MaxxumFootControl > >They do advertise "cool power" and claim that the "Maximizer" delivers five >times more power on a single battery charge. The cheapest one advertised is >$454. If they really stole Newmans ideas and really get 5x more power than a >normal motor, I assume that this motor should be OU (given that a standard >motor would be more than 20% efficient). > >How about this proposal: If you are certain this motor is OU, all of Vortex >together scrapes up the $454 to buy one of these motors and has Scott test it. >We make a wager -- if the motor is not OU, you agree not to post anything more >about Newman on Vortex. If it is OU, you and everyone connected with this >technology can write your own ticket to capitalize on the technology and make >tons of money. Willing to take the bet? > >Newman should not be complaing about this company. Surely he does not expect >to manufacture every electric motor used in the whole world. Giving up the >trolling motor market to validate the concept does not sound like a bad deal to >me. There should many billions of dollars left for him in selling into all >other markets for electric motors. > >-- Bob Horst Dear Bob, Thanks for your comments. The 46-lb "Thrust" MinnKota/Newman Motor is the Model tested by Joseph Newman (and Joe made a video of that test) --- if you wish to contact him at: (602) 977-2813 he can discuss with you his observations/test/findings which you are certainly welcome to repeat. No one should have to "give up" anything just because someone else has chosen to steal it. Tell, you what Bob, assuming you have an automobile, I would like you to happily and without further concern "give it up" to the first person who permanently removes it from your possession without your permission. Such a theft should not trouble you since there are millions of other automobiles which you can go out and non-coercively acquire. Sincerely, Evan Soule' From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 17:53:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA12279; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:44:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:44:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980920041303.00f9c180@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:13:03 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon In-Reply-To: References: <360757ec.332116486@mail-hub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"pbMBt2.0.z-2.W5Q1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6575 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:22 AM 9/20/98 -1000, you wrote: >Robin - > > > Having made a fool of myself in one of > > the newsgroups on this issue...[snip] > > >:) -- which reminds me to mention (IOW, a disclaimer) that *I* don't think >that the reason the atmosphere is shrinking, or any of these other >phenomena, are really due to changes in gravity. I don't know that they >aren't, but I seriously doubt it. Well we certainly hope not, don't we. The possibility and its outcome is, well scary isn't it? Perhaps science should consider everything instead of narrowly focusing only on "what they know is true". Only our survival is at stake. No big loss to the galaxy though. Lee The thermal explanation for the >atmospheric effect sounds good enough to me, but I don't know enough about >that subject to have a sense about it, so I really don't have much of an >opinion there. I'm just playing along in the thread. > >The spacecraft thing is pretty intriguing though, because I do tend to >believe that big G is composite, and may have variables in it. Just my >opnion. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 17:54:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA12343; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:44:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:44:40 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980920033526.009173c0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:35:26 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980919052155.00a43e10@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980919001350.00f89480@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hodMT2.0.P_2.Y5Q1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6576 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:56 AM 9/20/98 -1000, you wrote: >Lee - > > > Thinking about doppler. Is this a result of an > > electronic signal being received from the craft > > itself? > >Yes. > > > They use doppler in aircraft, especially on military > > craft for bombing runs and airdrops. It measures, > > to my knowledge, the time delay between > > interogation and return. I'm talking however about > > radar. > >Actually doppler measures the frequency shift in the returning signal. That >can be converted into relative velocity towards or away from the receiver. >Of course such a measurement can also be taken with radar by taking simple >time delay ranging at multiple times and calculating the position change >with respect to time. But you can't do that on the spacecraft, since it's >just an incoming signal and not a reflected radar signal. > > > Could you explain to me please, in plain language > > say understandable by a 6th grader, how that works. > >Like a siren on a vehicle that sounds higher pitched coming towards you, >then lower pitched after it passes you and is then moving away. You see >relatively scrunched sound waves as the source moves towards you, and thus >a higher pitch. They're stretched a bit as the source recedes for the >opposite effect. The electromagnetic "sounds" from the spacecraft are not >as "low pitched" as they ought to be, so the craft must not be receding >into the distance as fast as expected. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI Thanks Rick. I understand the doppler effect. I really do. Just trying to conceptualize in my mind and understand how the electromagnetic spectrum works by applying the doppler effect. The way that my mind works is to attempt to fully understand, to conceptualize, a process. It is obvious that I just don't bow to theory, or accept the word of authority. Got into quite a row with a teacher in 6th grade when I questioned the validity of the then dominant theory that oil came from dead dinosaurs. My poor little 6th grade mind could not conceptualize or grasp the ground opening up miles deep and all of these dinosarus (thousands up thousands of them) jumping or falling into these chasms. A friend says that they were still teaching that stuff into the '70's. I understand the doppler affect due to sound waves, and even RADAR. But not to EM radiations from spacecraft. For instance the idea of pitched EM radiation. I thank you for your info though. Just going to have to think about it some to really get a full grasp and understanding of it. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 17:54:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA11747; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:43:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:43:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980920030321.00915c90@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:03:21 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Sixth Grader's Doppler In-Reply-To: <009401bde482$ac4f4700$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"W75fR1.0.Mt2.h4Q1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6573 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:25 AM 9/20/98 +0100, you wrote: > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >>Thinking about doppler. Is this a result of an electronic signal being >>received from the craft itself? >> >>They use doppler in aircraft, especially on military craft for bombing runs >>and airdrops. >>It measures, to my knowledge, the time delay between interogation and >>return. I'm talking however about radar. >> >>Concerning the analysis of radio transmissions from these craft then, and I >>am assuming they are using radio transmissions to measure the doppler >shift. >> >>Could you explain to me please, in plain language say understandable by a >>6th grader, how that works. > > >Think of an ambulance passing you with it's sirens on. As the ambulance >approaches you its tone gets higher. As it passes away the tone gets lower. > >Its the same way that microwave and laser speed traps work. The distance >away doesn't matter, it's the relative velocity. > >With RADAR (RAdio Direction And Ranging), the signal transit time determines >the Range, and the Doppler shift determines direction. > >Blue light penetrates water further than red because it has greater energy. >Gamma 'rays' are really very high frequency light, and pass through most >substances. > >>From solid state laser science we know that red light is lower frequency >than blue because the resonance cavities have to be a multiple of the >wavelength. For instance, with a 480nm cavity we get blue light, and with a >670nm cavity we get red light. In this case the theory fits the practise. > >By the way, what exactly is a 'sixth grader'? > >Best regards > >David Callaghan Thanks Dave. We could have some fruitless bantering about why blue light penetrates further than red light into water. It boils down to beliefs and what we were told, and that devolves backwards to the theory of light as a wave. A theory in which I place no validity, but it really doesn't matter since I'm not doing research or have anything to publish. In the end we are all victimized by our beliefs. A 6th grader? Should I have used a lengthier sentence. A young person which is in the 6th grade of school. Shall I elucidate more clearly. How does one measure and record gamma rays by the way. How do we know they even exist or what their frequency range is. I know we can do that with radio frequencies, but gamma rays? And isn't it oxymoronic to call gamma rays (should they indeed exist) very high frequency light. Since light is the visible spectrum of the EM range, and gamma rays are not visible? I know, so called infrared and ultraviolet aren't visible to the eye, but they are visible to instruments which can be used to convert them to visible light. Is this so with gamma rays also? Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 17:55:17 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA12379; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:44:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:44:45 -0700 Message-ID: <36056CAC.5673@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:59:24 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: JL Naudin's ZPF motor and the Bifield-Brown effect References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rJX7N2.0.q_2.a5Q1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6577 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: Something I have been thinking about: If the Trouton-Noble experiment is truly detecting the morion of the earth through some absolute reference frame (an "ether"), I wonder if it is possible that the Biefield-Brown effect, assuming it is not due to electrostatic effects, works on the smae principle. Maybe the Bifield-Brown devices were actually pushing against a background ether to provide propulsion. If so, perhaps Vesselin Petkov's theories about the similarity of gravitational and electrostatic fields are correct. Anyone see a pattern emerging here? Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 17:56:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA11798; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:43:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:43:40 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980920034311.00915c90@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:43:11 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980919073412.00faf100@rockisland.com> <36054d7e.329445379@mail-hub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5l8AC2.0.5u2.m4Q1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6574 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:04 AM 9/20/98 -1000, you wrote: >Lee - > > > Posted something on that earlier. Light being in the > > Tetrahertz range. And the higher the frequency the > > less ability it has to penetrate. (Ex: Radar bounces > > off planes), ELF penetrates the Earth. Red is > > filtered out by 30' of water. Red is a higher > > frequency of light than blue. > >The blue shift refers to light of whatever frequency whose frequency has >been raised (shifted *towards* the blue end of the spectrum) by some >relative effect between source and reciever. Blue colored light itself need >not be involved, it's just a name for the effect. This effect could be >caused by relative velocity as in the example of the siren coming towards >you, or by gravitational fields as Robin mentions. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI Right Rick. Again I understand that. They actually don't see blue with the naked eye. I also have Quasars, Redshifts and Other Controversies by Halton Arp. Damn good explanation for the redshift theory. I'm merely suggesting that because of a misconception of light made 200 years ago by Young. That we don't really understand light at all. In fact there is very little devoted to light in physics books. Everything we think we know is just taken for granted and passed on as "fact". The gist of my questions and posts is that perhaps, our ignorance about light, what it is made up of and what it is, and the misinterpretation of what we see coming out the other end of a prism, has led us into to some bassackwards beliefs. That maybe a shift towards red, means the object is approaching us and a shift towards blue means the object is moving away. If we ever manage to get our butts off this Earth and do some real space travel (highly doubtful considering the current state of our beliefs in conventional physics) then we just might find out by actual experience and measurement that all we thought was true was 180 degrees out of synch with reality. Even now, data is coming in that throws these beliefs into question. But not much courage is being shown in revisiting these beliefs and "laws". Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 18:11:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA22529; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:04:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:04:00 -0700 Message-ID: <3605B8DA.5B12@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:24:26 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RF amplifier Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QtXfR3.0.cV5.zNQ1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6578 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: Anyone here know how I can build an amplifier to up 100MHz to 50W? Thanks, Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 18:18:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA27397; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:14:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:14:56 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809202235.PAA28176@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: mark@plug-in.com.br From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"3_TmX.0.gh6.BYQ1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6580 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Marcelo and all, At 02:36 PM 9/20/98 -3, you wrote: > >So, wouldn't it be possible to say that inside a planet there is a neutral >point caused by the sum of the attraction forces to the center of the planet >and the attraction forces of the planet's upper layers ? > >This neutral point would be in a inner spherical layer. > >But this would be true only if the gravity is an attraction force. > I think this is true, but the radius = zero. I think for a force that depends as 1/r^2, all the force from inside the spherical shell can be modelled as the same force from the spherical origin. The net force from outside the spherical shell to the surface =0. At least I think this is true for electrostatics, and gravity forces follow the same form. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 18:19:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA27211; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:14:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:14:41 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809202235.PAA28227@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Resent-Message-ID: <"ZsSnn.0.1f6.-XQ1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6579 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robin and all, At 07:44 AM 9/20/98 GMT, you wrote: [snip] >>This is why I was thinking that most of the approx. 1 watt from the power >>supply is going into the arc, not the coil reactance. The resistor was >>specifically >>chosen to have the resistance of the coil, but not its reactance. >Understood. >> I did 2 calculations at extremes to estimate the value of the current. 1. DC. I=400 Volts/2000 Ohms = 200mA. For a duty cycle of 5%, the average current is 10mA. 2. Short pulses, widely spaced. Say they are 1 uS wide. At each pulse, the starting current = 0. For 400 Volts and a 5H inductor, I get di/dt= V/L=80A/s. At the end of a 1uS pulse, I get 80uA, for an average current of 40uA in the pulse. For a 5% duty cycle, the average current is 2uA. 1uS is the approx value of some of the pulses. >>>Note: The average voltage here is only 2500*2 mA=5 volt. >>>2) It has already been pointed out by several people that the current >>>meter you are using is not appropriate to the task (i.e. rapidly >>>switched current in an inductive circuit). >> >>This was the first time I used or mentioned it. I feel that a digital >I was referring to all the posts both here and on vortex re. the >Newman motor measurements. Your system would appear to be sufficiently >similar to be subject to the same measurement considerations. > >Yes, you are likely to have a complex waveform. I think you'll at >least need a scope as well. > I have tried a scope, and it is not up to the task. I tried sampling the current by monitoring the voltage across a 10 Ohm resistor. I see very short (<<1uS) pulses >100 Volts. I now understand the difficulty Jean-Louis had measuring the currents in his Newman motor! I guess these are charging the coil's distributed capacitances? These pulses overload the vertical amp when I try an higher gain to see the L/R currents. The more noisy the current interruptor, the more abundant these pulses are. They generate enough RF hash to make a 100MHz FM radio unusable. Their average value is still <<1 mA. This is one reason I slowed the interruptor's frequency from 2000 to 400 rpm. I quess the thermal box is a measurement system in itself to measure the dissipated power, whatever the current waveforms. >> >>>3) What are you using to measure the temperatures? >>Both laboratory dial and mercury thermometers. > >How are you ensuring good (and consistent) thermal contact between >thermometer and coil? I am not assuming good thermal contact, just monitoring the air temp inside of the box. This is why I ran the tests 40 min or longer. >(And does coil temp. vary with position at which it is measured?) >[snip] >You seem to have demonstrated that only resistive losses lead to heat >production in the coil, which doesn't really seem all that >extraordinary ;) Yes, you seem to be correct. I have not demonstrated any cooling so far..:-/ -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 18:23:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA08051; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:04:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:04:37 -0700 Message-ID: <36054400.99B89F7E@GroupZ.net> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:05:52 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Minn Kota and Newman References: <199809201704.MAA09187@smtp.jump.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EE9ui.0.gz1.qEK1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6571 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well I've got 20 bucks, (us dollars)....and don't care if I get it back if it proves or disproves something .... So how about it Scott, if we send you the money will you buy and test a motor ??.....steve opelc Mitchell Jones wrote: > > >Evan Soule wrote: . > > > >> In the latest Edition of his book, Joe has reported the theft of his > >> technology by MinnKota Corp. who have made a fortune employing his designs > >> in their trolling motors. He has stated that Dr. Roger Hastings (who has > >> been a consultant to MinnKota) has been the conduit of information to > >> MinnKota. > >> > >> What I have found curious is that MinnKota would 1) suddenly began > >> advertising their product as "COOL POWER" (a motor that runs cool) and 2) > >> simultaneously change the nomenclature of their trolling motors from > >> "horsepower" to "thrust" --- at the same time that Joe has stated they > >> began using his technology in their products > > > >Well, I looked up Minn Kota on the web, and found this site: > > > >http://www.northlandmarine.com/MinnMaxxumBowMnt.htm#Anchor##MaxxumFootControl > > > >They do advertise "cool power" and claim that the "Maximizer" delivers five > >times more power on a single battery charge. The cheapest one advertised is > >$454. If they really stole Newmans ideas and really get 5x more power than a > >normal motor, I assume that this motor should be OU (given that a standard > >motor would be more than 20% efficient). > > > >How about this proposal: If you are certain this motor is OU, all of Vortex > >together scrapes up the $454 to buy one of these motors and has Scott test it. > > ***{This proposal has a flaw: after the testing, who owns the motor? A > better idea would be for some member of vortex who has a personal use for a > trolling motor to buy the thing and ship it to Scott for testing. After the > testing--non-destructive testing, presumably--Scott can ship the motor back > to him. Or, alternatively, I suppose it could be agreed in advance that, > after testing, the motor will be auctioned off to the highest bidder (by > placing a post in sci.electronics.equipment, say) and the proceeds will be > divided among the contributors in proportion to the relative size of their > contributions. --Mitchell Jones}*** > > >We make a wager -- if the motor is not OU, you agree not to post anything more > >about Newman on Vortex. > > ***{This is absurd. Evan has the right to decide what he will and will not > post. The question here is whether Newman's motor works. Period. If he, > Newman, will not supply a motor of his own for testing, then it is > reasonable to use the MinnKota motor as a substitute, since he claims it is > based on his design. But we will need Evan, who is apparently the only > conduit we have to Newman, to provide feedback during the testing process, > to ensure that it is conducted properly. Remember: it has been claimed by > Newman himself that there are difficulties associated with testing his > motors. He claimed, for example, that NIST screwed up their own testing by > grounding the motor. Since, presumably, we want to do a test that will > actually supply useful information, we need as much feedback from the > Newman camp as we can get. So let's drop these insulting suggestions that > Evan place duct tape across his mouth if the motor flunks Scott's test, and > start focusing on the question of how to determine whether the motor works. > --Mitchell Jones}*** > > If it is OU, you and everyone connected with this > >technology can write your own ticket to capitalize on the technology and make > >tons of money. Willing to take the bet? > > > >Newman should not be complaing about this company. Surely he does not expect > >to manufacture every electric motor used in the whole world. Giving up the > >trolling motor market to validate the concept does not sound like a bad deal to > >me. There should many billions of dollars left for him in selling into all > >other markets for electric motors. > > > >-- Bob Horst From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 19:03:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA21237; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:01:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:01:02 -0700 Message-ID: <001201bde4f1$277b86a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Fifth Grader's Doppler Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:47:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"5e9ls.0.hB5.TDR1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6581 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All After a quick note from another member :-) -----Original Message----- From: David Callaghan >With RADAR (RAdio Direction And Ranging), the signal transit time determines >the Range, and the Doppler shift determines direction. Oops: The antenna direction is used to determine direction, the doppler shift is used to measure the velocity. >Blue light penetrates water further than red because it has greater energy. >Gamma 'rays' are really very high frequency light, and pass through most >substances. >From Robin van Spaandonk, better reasoning! >I initially thought along similar lines, but closer inspection reveals >that it doesn't hold up. E.g. AM radio (low frequency) passes through >brick walls quite nicely, while light (high frequency) is stopped >dead. >I believe that what really determines the degree of absorption, is the >degree to which the impinging frequency matches that of atomic and >molecular resonances within the substance. The greater the mismatch, >the greater the transparency. IOW, the greater the match, the better >the absorption. This makes sense, in as much as we all know that if >you want to make an oscillator resonate, you have to stimulate it at >it's own inherent frequency. >Metals are reflective over a wide band of frequencies, because they >contain "free" electrons that can resonate with almost any frequency, >and re-transmit the energy. >BTW this also implies that gamma rays are best absorbed by substances >that have nuclear resonances with a matching frequency. That is of course assuming that light is actually identical to radio waves ;-} Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 19:44:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA08167; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:36:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:36:55 -0700 Message-ID: <002801bde508$c796f4a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 03:37:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"OMH692.0.O_1.5lR1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6582 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee and All -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland >I understand the doppler affect due to sound waves, and even RADAR. But not >to EM radiations from spacecraft. For instance the idea of pitched EM >radiation. I thank you for your info though. Just going to have to think >about it some to really get a full grasp and understanding of it. This has got me thinking. If they are measuring the Doppler shift from a transmission originating from the spacecraft, do they transmit data indicating the exact transmission / modulation frequency? Otherwise, how can they be sure the transmitter is not drifting in frequency due to, for instance, the lower gravity?!? Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 19:56:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA18106; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:54:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:54:55 -0700 Message-ID: <002f01bde50b$573c1c00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Gamma Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 03:55:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"YxAsG.0.UQ4.-_R1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6583 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland >A 6th grader? Should I have used a lengthier sentence. A young person which >is in the 6th grade of school. Shall I elucidate more clearly. :-) Yes please (I'll try to work out what a 7th grader is myself!) >How does one measure and record gamma rays by the way. How do we know they >even exist or what their frequency range is. I know we can do that with >radio frequencies, but gamma rays? I think Gamma rays are usually recorded with a Geiger-Muller counter, or X-Ray film. >And isn't it oxymoronic to call gamma rays (should they indeed exist) very >high frequency light. Since light is the visible spectrum of the EM range, >and gamma rays are not visible? True. If it was light it would be visible to the human eye. It's just like the falling tree in the empty wood question. >I know, so called infrared and ultraviolet aren't visible to the eye, but >they are visible to instruments which can be used to convert them to >visible light. > >Is this so with gamma rays also? Some X-Ray machines verge into Gamma wavelengths. X-Rays are usually classified as the band of wavelengths between UV and gamma. Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 20:04:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA22591; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:02:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:02:20 -0700 Message-ID: <04cf01bde50b$ffcbf700$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: The N-ZPF Motor v1.0 Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:36:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"lOsLC.0.YW5.x6S1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6584 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Have you heard of the work being performed at the University of California >by Richard Packard and Seamus Davis regarding liquid helium (a Bose-Einstein >Condensate) and its connection with the 'absolute inertial reference frame'? > I have not heard of it, could you provide any more info? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 23:49:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16014; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:47:54 -0700 (PDT) To: JNaudin509@aol.com Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:47:24 -0700 Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Message-ID: <19980920.164730.3606.0.tv@juno.com> References: <9d9776b5.36049bfd@aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,11,14,16,26-29,31-32,35-42,44,46,48,53-72 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"IKKYE1.0.8w3.OQV1s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6585 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Jean-Louis, Thank you for the reply. I believe the temperature is very important if it can be confirmed. On Sun, 20 Sep 1998 02:09:01 EDT JNaudin509@aol.com writes: >Dear Tim, >As far as I am concerned, I have really observed the effect and >noticed this weak change of temperature. I take your claim even more seriously since the physicist Leon Dragone also made the same type of observation. Another physicist, Dr. P.T. Pappas, from Athens, also observed Leon's tests and was convinced that there was a temperature drop. I also have a video of both Dragone and Pappas demonstrating the "Electroentropic Device" in 1987 to Alex Guy Obolenski, an electronics instrumentation engineer from New York, and George Hathaway, and engineer from Toronto Ontario, Canada. Obolenski made the video with help of his lady friend who accompanied him. In the video they clearly and carefully test the Electroentropic Device while the other take careful notes. Obolenski used a $10,000 digital storage oscilloscope to make the current and voltage measurements. He used a Tektronix current probe to make the current measurements. He was clearly convinced that there was something anomalous, especially after he observed the reverse current spikes from the coil. In this test, Leon used the neon sign transformer as the coil. Pappas also stated on the video that the cooling effect had been observed on a different coil (the Newman coil). Leon told me that he had the same type results with the Newman type coil and the neon sign transformer. The temperature tests were only done with Newman coils because it was accessible. > >-------------------- ><< Have you tried to repeat it ?>> > >I shall soon planned to replicate again my temp measurement with a >glass thermometer, I think that this will be the final proof of the effect >previously observed. In spite of all my attention during my measurement, I >think that that there is a possibility that the EMI can trouble the digital >thermometer. In need to recheck this again. In my setup I have tried to reduce this >fact by placing the thermal probe at the opposite side of the commutator and also at >the place where the aerodynamical effect due to rotation of the rotor are the weaker. >This test must be reconducted with some different means like a glass thermometer >or a special shielded probe. But, today, I have the feeling that the >cooling effect is real.... Dennis Cravens recommends an accurate thermistor probe. Some of the digital multimeters will give 0.01 degree resolution. > >-------------------------- > << How did you wind the coil ? On a lathe ? >> > >Yes, the coil has been wound by a friend on a lathe at very low speed, >my friend has done a very good and patient job during 5 hours !!! >The wire is very very thin and the risk to broke it is very high.... > Leon Dragone also remarked to me how long it took him to wind his coil on a lathe. Best regards, Tim Vaughan _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 01:04:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA04818; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 01:02:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 01:02:34 -0700 Message-ID: <360602C9.6EC@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:39:53 +1200 From: Robbie Rowntree Reply-To: rown@xtra.co.nz Organization: Robbie Rowntree's Amazing Magnetic Machine's X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Is Gravity Broken References: <3.0.5.32.19980914053543.00fe0e10@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980915000510.00f43720@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TeEJY2.0.AB1.PWW1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6586 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > Have I posted this yet? > > Is Gravity Broken? > Back To The Drawing > Board For Einstein? > By Alan Boyle > MSNBC www.msnbc.com > >From Stig Agermose > 9-11-98 > > MSNBC -- Is gravity broke? Or is it just the spacecraft? For > whatever reason, far-flung probes such as Pioneer 10 and 11 are > showing an anomalous slowdown effect. If the observations are > correct, that could force a revision of Einstein's theories. > > THE EFFECT, reported Wednesday by New Scientist magazine, has > been showing up for years in analyses of telemetry from Pioneer 10 > and 11, which were launched in the early 1970s. > > "It's just recently that it became unambiguous, and we have no > explanation for it," said John Anderson, a planetary scientist at > NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and a principal investigator on the > Pioneer team. > > Pioneer 10 is about 6.5 billion miles away from the sun, and Pioneer > 11 is more than 4.5 billion miles away. Anderson explained that > Pioneer 10 should have reached escape velocity but readings from > the spacecraft show that the probe is decelerating by a tiny, constant > amount. > > "If this force continues, then eventually it would just stop and fall > back toward the sun," he said. "We thought this thing would go off > into interstellar space." > > In fact, the Pioneer probes bear plaques that would serve as a > greeting to extraterrestrials who might happen upon them. > > The "drag" also appears to affect the Ulysses spacecraft, which is in > a polar orbit around the sun, at a distance of about 490 million miles, > Anderson said. An analysis of data from the Galileo spacecraft, > currently swinging around Jupiter, was less conclusive, he said. > > Anderson and his colleagues have ruled out fuel problems, > aerodynamic drag from the interstellar medium and the effects of > celestial bodies. Also, the anomaly hasn't been observed in the > movement of the planets or other objects of substantial mass in the > solar system. > > Currently, Anderson said, the prime suspect in the mystery is > "something in the hardware that we haven't found" something that > would systematically skew the data coming from the spacecraft. But > the spacecraft's operators haven't been able to find such a fault, even > though they've looked for years. > > If the effect is real rather than a glitch, astronomers and > mathematicians would have to tinker with gravitational theories that > have held up for decades. > > "It could have cosmological significance somehow," Anderson said. > "It could be distorting space and time somehow." > > For now, Anderson sees that as a "low-percentage" possibility. He's > prepared a formal paper on the anomalies that has been accepted for > publication by the Physical Review Letters. And he's looking forward > to new deep-space missions, such as the proposed Pluto-Kuiper > Express, which will have a better tracking system and thus could > provide more clues in the mystery. > > "I think it will be something that we'll be working on over the next > decade," he said. perhaps the ether, zpe, is thicker in low gravity space and thinner in dense gravity wells ,would this explain the massive stars spinning super fast and seaming to have perpetual momentum -- **RRAMM** Good Waves Robbie Rowntree experimental research Self powered*Magnetic Motor*Electric Gen*Anti gravity drive mailto:rown@xtra.co.nz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 01:46:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA12321; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 01:45:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 01:45:23 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 02:46:46 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" cc: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" , "'keelynet@dallastexas.net'" , "'editor@infinite-energy.com'" , "'haisch@starspot.com'" , "'halfox@slkc.uswest.net'" , "'ine@padrak.com'" , "'mica@world.std.com'" , "'paynen@tesla.org'" Subject: Oops :} Re: VORTEX MYSTERIES SOLVED!... Countdown to Disclosure.....10...... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Jvpy63.0.I03.Y8X1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6587 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, (dumb me, dumb me:} <-- sheepish grin deserved (sigh) Oops SORRY about that! just realized i resent count 10 to everyone. I promise to edit/clip & cut TO:'s and CC:'s in the future. My fault. Please ignore last mailing, it was sent to david dennard as a first (singular) posting! -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 03:02:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA24764; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 03:01:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 03:01:21 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980920034311.00915c90@rockisland.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980919073412.00faf100@rockisland.com> <36054d7e.329445379@mail-hub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:00:11 -1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. Resent-Message-ID: <"lJpUg3.0.m26.mFY1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6588 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee - > That maybe a shift towards red, means the object is > approaching us and a shift towards blue means the > object is moving away. It's my understanding that these things aren't hard to test in the real world and are quite consistent - and are the opposite of what you've written above. Now deep space and high velocities may indeed have some twists on this, but that's the basic idea. > If we ever manage to get our butts off this Earth and > do some real space travel (highly doubtful > considering the current state of our beliefs in > conventional physics) then we just might find out > by actual experience and measurement that all we > thought was true was 180 degrees out of synch with > reality. Well, there seems to be plenty of evidence that when an emitter moves towards you the wavelength it emits gets shortened, but whatever. Lee, I'm quite aware that you like to try to stir the pot a bit by simply contradicting basic understandings or asking questions as if you really didn't have knowledge of what the standard answers would be. I knew you knew the standard things, doppler shift, etc. Sometimes I like to play along too, because I often learn something myself from such challenges. Standing basic concepts on their heads does sometimes lead one to a deeper understanding of a concept than the more simple textbook explanations. So does real first hand work or calculations on real world problems in some given area. But really seldom does anything fundamentally new suddenly appear by simply reversing things that have been well known for years by many people quite a bit better educated in these matters than we are. I'm going to step out of this thread now. Have fun with your brain teasers. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 03:09:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA25921; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 03:08:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 03:08:06 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36056CAC.5673@sunherald.infi.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:06:51 -1000 To: freenrg list From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: JL Naudin's ZPF motor and the Bifield-Brown effect Resent-Message-ID: <"FU8pI1.0.uK6.6MY1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6589 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle - > Anyone see a pattern emerging here? Yes, a pattern consisting of a growing list of unconvincing experiments that stir up quite a bit of interest, suspicion and rumor, yet fail to properly take electrostatic or some other effects into account so that it amounts to proof that something anomalous is going on. Nobody wants there to be a real BB or related effect more than me. But I want to get it from an experiment that shuts the door on any possible electrostatic explanation. I don't believe what we've seen so far goes anywhere near proof that such effects exist. But I'm hoping. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 04:13:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA02819; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 04:12:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 04:12:16 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01bde550$cfa540a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Re: Superfluid Helium and the Inertial Reference Frame Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:13:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"HxAJV3.0.vh.FIZ1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6590 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill and All You can find the New-Scientist link describing this at: http://www.newscientist.com/usa/bayarea/bayarea.html Click on the superfluid helium link Best regards David Callaghan -----Original Message----- From: Bill Wallace >>Have you heard of the work being performed at the University of California >>by Richard Packard and Seamus Davis regarding liquid helium (a >Bose-Einstein >>Condensate) and its connection with the 'absolute inertial reference >frame'? >> >I have not heard of it, could you provide any more info? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 04:21:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA04764; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 04:19:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 04:19:53 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:17:07 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199809211117.NAA00259@imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin@mail.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Off-topic : David Hudson's "deadly panacea" Resent-Message-ID: <"TKaKv.0.MA1.PPZ1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6591 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Lee & all Lee Markland wrote: > Below has to do with monoatomic gold. > it supposedly killed some lady in Arizona, bacterial contamination or > something. she had cancer and was about to die anyway. (snip) >> Yep, that story has been around quite some time. Can't tell whether he >> messed up or whether the medical techs and doctors in the hospital she was >> in deliberately tried to discredit him --- although the latter seems very >> possibly the truth. >> Neil > MY COMMENT : How do we sort it out ? > Is their the usual AMA protectivism here? The sad story of the woman who died from septicemia after receiving an intraveinous shot of David Hudson's ORME powder can be read, as written in the Phoenix New Times, at http://monatomic.earth.com/ Click on "Deadly panacea". Actually David Hudson was not directly involved. Nor was any hospital or medical techs. It was the tragic mistake of an ill-advised "naturopathic" healer. Hudson, though, is IMHO guilty of making totally preposterous claims as to the healing properties of his "miraculous" powders. PS. Now, with Joe Champion in jail and David Hudson in mystical retreat, is it time to get back to serious research on low energy transmutations ? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 05:02:42 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA13167; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 05:01:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 05:01:24 -0700 Message-ID: <36064259.A977F1C3@servtech.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:11:06 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Biefled-Brown References: <666e7af5.36034709@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9vM3J2.0.aD3.J0a1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6592 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Jean-Louis Naudin > (France) I have looked at the info you have on the Biefeld-Brown on your web page. *Very nice*! I like the detail. Also like the video clip. Suggestion: In the video clip, you show what looks almost like an airplane wing suspended in the center. When the voltage is applied, the "wing" rotates. Please do the same experiment again but wrap the entire device in aluminum foil and attach the foil to the device. Then, any emision of particle (which might be imparting a momentum to the "wing" will impart an oposite momentum when it stricks the foil this canceling out any torque due to particle emission. I'd like to know if it still rotates. Maybe not aluminum foil. Maybe some other material. Also, what *current* was needed to *maintain* the voltage? If "large" current then you have a lot of partical emission. Bob Gray From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 06:35:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA03744; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 06:33:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 06:33:45 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:34:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"lkgTO1.0.Qw.uMb1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6593 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Lee, I'm quite aware that you like to try to stir the pot a bit by simply > contradicting basic understandings or asking questions as if you really > didn't have knowledge of what the standard answers would be. I knew you > knew the standard things, doppler shift, etc. Sometimes I like to play > along too, because I often learn something myself from such challenges. > Standing basic concepts on their heads does sometimes lead one to a deeper > understanding of a concept than the more simple textbook explanations. So > does real first hand work or calculations on real world problems in some > given area. But really seldom does anything fundamentally new suddenly > appear by simply reversing things that have been well known for years by > many people quite a bit better educated in these matters than we are. I'm > going to step out of this thread now. Have fun with your brain teasers. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > In one of my EE classes back in the early 70's we discussed reciprocity, and applied it to Maxwell's equations as a theoretical exercise. We made the equations symmetrical by adding the missing terms, and came up with such things as "perfect magnetic conductors". It was an interesting project, and we had some lively discussions. In his book, CAUSALITY, ELECTROMAGNETIC INDUCTION AND GRAVITATION, Prof. Oleg Jefimenko did a similar analysis of the gravitation equations. His predictions are also fascinating. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 09:18:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA19357; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:14:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:14:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199809211616.NAA13952@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:14:47 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br CC: tv@juno.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19980920.164730.3606.0.tv@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"vFXXg.0.Ik4.xjd1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6594 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > I also have a video of both Dragone and Pappas demonstrating the > "Electroentropic Device" in 1987 to Alex Guy Obolenski, an electronics > instrumentation engineer from New York, and George Hathaway, and engineer > from Toronto Ontario, Canada. Obolenski made the video with help of his lady > friend who accompanied him. In the video they clearly and carefully test the > Electroentropic Device while the other take careful notes. Obolenski used a > $10,000 digital storage oscilloscope to make the current and voltage > measurements. He used a Tektronix current probe to make the current > measurements. He was clearly convinced that there was something anomalous, > especially after he observed the reverse current spikes from the coil. > That anomalous effect was noted also by Osamu Ide on his paper : "Increased voltage phenomenon in a resonance circuit of unconventional magnetic configuration" from 1995. > In this test, Leon used the neon sign transformer as the coil. > > Pappas also stated on the video that the cooling effect had been observed on a > different coil (the Newman coil). > > Leon told me that he had the same type results with the Newman type coil and > the neon sign transformer. The temperature tests were only done with Newman > coils because it was accessible. > > > > >-------------------------- > > << How did you wind the coil ? On a lathe ? >> > > > >Yes, the coil has been wound by a friend on a lathe at very low speed, > >my friend has done a very good and patient job during 5 hours !!! > >The wire is very very thin and the risk to broke it is very high.... > > > Leon Dragone also remarked to me how long it took him to wind > his coil on a lathe. > > Best regards, > Tim Vaughan > Leon didn't make any relation between the coil's size or wire gauge and the cooling effect ? What he used in the core ? --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 09:23:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA20922; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:19:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:19:15 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980920123126.00fa0930@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:31:26 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. In-Reply-To: <002801bde508$c796f4a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"dOxSN.0.i65.2od1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6595 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:37 AM 9/21/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee and All > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >>I understand the doppler affect due to sound waves, and even RADAR. But not >>to EM radiations from spacecraft. For instance the idea of pitched EM >>radiation. I thank you for your info though. Just going to have to think >>about it some to really get a full grasp and understanding of it. > > >This has got me thinking. If they are measuring the Doppler shift from a >transmission >originating from the spacecraft, do they transmit data indicating the exact >transmission / modulation frequency? Otherwise, how can they be sure the >transmitter is not drifting in frequency due to, for instance, the lower >gravity?!? > >Best regards > >David Callaghan That's my job Dave, make people think. Just wish I had answers or understood all of this stuff :) Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 09:23:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA20973; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:19:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:19:20 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980920124248.00fa0930@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:42:48 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Gamma In-Reply-To: <002f01bde50b$573c1c00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"PH3Lb3.0.P75.7od1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6597 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:55 AM 9/21/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Lee > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >>A 6th grader? Should I have used a lengthier sentence. A young person which >>is in the 6th grade of school. Shall I elucidate more clearly. > > >:-) Yes please (I'll try to work out what a 7th grader is myself!) > > >>How does one measure and record gamma rays by the way. How do we know they >>even exist or what their frequency range is. I know we can do that with >>radio frequencies, but gamma rays? > > >I think Gamma rays are usually recorded with a Geiger-Muller counter, or >X-Ray film. > > >>And isn't it oxymoronic to call gamma rays (should they indeed exist) very >>high frequency light. Since light is the visible spectrum of the EM range, >>and gamma rays are not visible? > > >True. If it was light it would be visible to the human eye. It's just like >the falling tree in the empty wood question. > > >>I know, so called infrared and ultraviolet aren't visible to the eye, but >>they are visible to instruments which can be used to convert them to >>visible light. >> >>Is this so with gamma rays also? > > >Some X-Ray machines verge into Gamma wavelengths. >X-Rays are usually classified as the band of wavelengths between UV and >gamma. So a gamma ray isn't light then, just another part of the EM spectrum, like Xrays. Lee >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 09:24:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA20934; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:19:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:19:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980920122913.00fa0930@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:29:13 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Fifth Grader's Doppler In-Reply-To: <001201bde4f1$277b86a0$96d2989e@david-callaghan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"tu6gz2.0.075.3od1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6596 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wunderbar, communication in process, beliefs and paradigms being re examined. Progress, not perfection. Lee Can't say that light is exactly identical to radio waves, but here's a clue both are part of the EM spectrum. I think that tells us something C'est nes pas? At 12:47 AM 9/21/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi All > >After a quick note from another member :-) > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Callaghan >>With RADAR (RAdio Direction And Ranging), the signal transit time >determines >>the Range, and the Doppler shift determines direction. > > >Oops: The antenna direction is used to determine direction, the doppler >shift is used to measure the velocity. > > >>Blue light penetrates water further than red because it has greater energy. >>Gamma 'rays' are really very high frequency light, and pass through most >>substances. > > >>From Robin van Spaandonk, better reasoning! > >>I initially thought along similar lines, but closer inspection reveals >>that it doesn't hold up. E.g. AM radio (low frequency) passes through >>brick walls quite nicely, while light (high frequency) is stopped >>dead. > >>I believe that what really determines the degree of absorption, is the >>degree to which the impinging frequency matches that of atomic and >>molecular resonances within the substance. The greater the mismatch, >>the greater the transparency. IOW, the greater the match, the better >>the absorption. This makes sense, in as much as we all know that if >>you want to make an oscillator resonate, you have to stimulate it at >>it's own inherent frequency. > >>Metals are reflective over a wide band of frequencies, because they >>contain "free" electrons that can resonate with almost any frequency, >>and re-transmit the energy. > >>BTW this also implies that gamma rays are best absorbed by substances >>that have nuclear resonances with a matching frequency. > >That is of course assuming that light is actually identical to radio waves >;-} > > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 10:37:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20332; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:32:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:32:35 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:33:20 +0200 (ITADST) Message-Id: <199809211733.TAA05751@korovev.stm.it> X-Sender: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: sepp@lastrega.com (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon Resent-Message-ID: <"ahkcn.0.Rz4.ose1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6598 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Interesting discussion on gravity. Would it not be possible that a planet or larger rotating stellar body tends to form a hollow shell, with a small centerpoint and a rather distant shell, where a neutral gravity spherical "shell" would form between the two? Recent data on space probes slowing down after passing a certain distance from the sun might suggest that such a gravitational configuration could be true even for the solar system as a whole?? - Josef >>So, wouldn't it be possible to say that inside a planet there is a neutral >>point caused by the sum of the attraction forces to the center of the planet >>and the attraction forces of the planet's upper layers ? >> >>This neutral point would be in a inner spherical layer. >> >>But this would be true only if the gravity is an attraction force. >> >I think this is true, but the radius = zero. I think for a force that >depends as 1/r^2, all the force from inside the spherical shell can be >modelled as the same force from the spherical origin. The net force from >outside the spherical shell to the surface =0. At least I think this is true >for electrostatics, and gravity forces follow the same form. >-Dave Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com Check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 12:50:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA01659; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:44:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:44:35 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:37:33 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"BurDn.0.kP.Yog1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6599 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/20/98 11:13:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, DCallaghan@CallaghanSystems.Demon.Co.Uk writes: << This has got me thinking. If they are measuring the Doppler shift from a transmission originating from the spacecraft, do they transmit data indicating the exact transmission / modulation frequency? Otherwise, how can they be sure the transmitter is not drifting in frequency due to, for instance, the lower gravity?!? Best regards David Callaghan >> I don't know for sure this is what they are doing, but they may simply be using a repeater in the spacecraft. Whatever it receives in the frequency band they are using, it duplicates and sends back. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 13:46:27 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22134; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:35:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:35:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980921020231.00fcce70@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 02:02:31 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"LKy9S2.0.kP5.3Yh1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6601 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:34 AM 9/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Rick Monteverde wrote: > >> >> Lee, I'm quite aware that you like to try to stir the pot a bit by simply >> contradicting basic understandings or asking questions as if you really >> didn't have knowledge of what the standard answers would be. I knew you >> knew the standard things, doppler shift, etc. Sometimes I like to play >> along too, because I often learn something myself from such challenges. >> Standing basic concepts on their heads does sometimes lead one to a deeper >> understanding of a concept than the more simple textbook explanations. So >> does real first hand work or calculations on real world problems in some >> given area. But really seldom does anything fundamentally new suddenly >> appear by simply reversing things that have been well known for years by >> many people quite a bit better educated in these matters than we are. Educated or indoctrinated Rick. 8 years in University and I look back on the obvious, I was being told what to think, not how to think. And I am not simply reversing things that have been "well known for years". If the "well known for years" did in fact reflect reality and could be proven by experiment, sampling, testing I would not have made a post. It is our problem that we worship authority. It is simple a form of mind control.The oldest. Religion, history, science and the constant drill of the mis education system pounds in our heads by repition - the "facts" which we are suppose to memorize and regurgitate. It seems that belief (in authority, laws, etc) is all we have and we cling to it like a drowning man clinging to a straw. Strip away that belief and we stand naked, forced to accept personal responsibility for our own lives, failures, our own fears, needs and the future (or lack of one) that bears down on us. We be Word Controlled Humans and we need to deal with that to lift ourselves above and beyond. I'm >> going to step out of this thread now. Have fun with your brain teasers. >> >> - Rick Monteverde >> Honolulu, HI >In one of my EE classes back in the early 70's we discussed reciprocity, >and applied it to Maxwell's equations as a theoretical exercise. We made >the equations symmetrical by adding the missing terms, and came up with >such things as "perfect magnetic conductors". It was an interesting >project, and we had some lively discussions. > >In his book, CAUSALITY, ELECTROMAGNETIC INDUCTION AND GRAVITATION, Prof. >Oleg Jefimenko did a similar analysis of the gravitation equations. His >predictions are also fascinating. > >Zack Thanks Zack. I've got to get that book. Lee > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 13:47:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22353; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:35:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:35:53 -0700 Message-ID: <3607C0A6.6C40@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:22:14 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon References: <199809211733.TAA05751@korovev.stm.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"700-_1.0.5T5.fYh1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6602 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Josef Hasslberger wrote: > > Would it not be possible that a planet or larger rotating stellar body > tends to form a hollow shell, with a small centerpoint and a rather distant > shell, where a neutral gravity spherical "shell" would form between the > two? > Similarly described by John Keely, and referred to as a "Neutral Centre" ? And by others as a "Laya" centre ? SR -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 13:48:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22061; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:35:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:35:02 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980921005951.00fc31e0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:59:51 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Superfluid Helium Defies Common Sense In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980920034311.00915c90@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980919073412.00faf100@rockisland.com> <36054d7e.329445379@mail-hub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA21981 Resent-Message-ID: <"q6BMe1.0.WO5.rXh1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6600 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Source: New Scientist 05 September 1998 http://www.newscientist.com/usa/bayarea/helium.html After years working with the world's weirdest fluid, Richard Packard and Seamus Davis thought they'd seen it all -- until the fluid in their lab started whistling. Michael Brooks reports. SUPERFLUID helium is to liquids what Salvador Dali is to artists--full of surreal surprises. Put some in a bowl, set the bowl spinning, and the liquid inside will remain stationary. Draw a cupful out of the bowl, suspend it a few centimetres above the remaining liquid, then stand back and rub your eyes--the fluid in the cup will cheat common sense by pouring itself, drop by drop, back into the bowl. A drop climbs up the inside of the cup, then runs down the outside. When it falls, another begins climbing, and the magic continues until the cup is dry. When you have spent most of your life working with a liquid which brings the weirdness of the quan-tum world into our own, you would think nothing could surprise you. You'd think that once you had seen it defy gravity and climb the walls of its container, you would have seen it all. And that's just what physicists Richard Packard and Seamus Davis thought--until the liquid in their lab started whistling. Last year, Packard, Davis and their colleagues at the University of California at Berkeley linked two pools of superfluid by a tiny hole, and out came an eerie sound like a falling bomb, a whistling that gradually decreased in pitch. They had discovered the quantum whistle. In the days that followed, the two researchers couldn't stop playing with its strange sounds, but now things are becoming a bit more serious. For behind the light-entertainment value of this whistle lies a host of exotic applications. The group has already used the phenomenon to fashion a gyroscope that harnesses a superfluid's weirdness to measure how fast the Earth is spinning. They are hard at work on other devices too, some of which could be used to put Einstein's relativity theories through more demanding tests than ever before. Conceptually, a superfluid is little more than a liquid that lives by quantum rather than classical rules. To make one, you need to cool a substance down to extremely cold temperatures so that its particles move very slowly. According to quantum theory, this causes the waves associated with the particles to stretch out and become more influential--the quantum nature of one can affect the behaviour of others. But most liquids turn to solids long before this can happen. What makes helium special is that it remains a liquid at all temperatures. Near absolute zero, when the quantum waves associated with its atoms begin to overlap, a superfluid is born: the atoms suddenly lose their individuality and the liquid collapses into a Bose-Einstein condensate, a quantum substance in which the atoms move in lockstep. It's a strange and super-slippery stuff that can flow through pipes with no friction at all, and perform all sorts of other stunts. In 1963, physicist Brian Josephson of Cambridge University predicted that merely linking together two tiny pools of superfluid would cause a natural quantum oscillation, in which the liquid would rush back and forth through the link. Packard and his colleagues were searching for these oscillations in early 1997, but, like others before them, they weren't finding anything. The screens of their oscilloscopes--used to detect and display rapid oscillations--showed nothing interesting, and Packard's frustrated graduate students were ready to give up. Their sophisticated research equipment was getting them nowhere. Quantum dance When Packard suggested that they take a pair of headphones and listen for the signal, the students were less than enthusiastic. "They kept arguing that there was no point because there was nothing there," he says. He kept at them to try it, but they resisted. "They really didn't want to do it--in the end they simply argued that they couldn't do it because they didn't have any headphones in the lab." So Packard went to a local electronics store, bought a $50 pair of headphones out of his own pocket, and presented them to his students. "The connector's wrong," they said. He went back to the shop and bought an adaptor. Graduate student Sergey Pereverzev reluctantly plugged in the headphones and flicked a switch to start up the experiment. His jaw dropped. What he heard was just what the theory had predicted: a high-pitched whistle that gradually became lower in tone, like the sound of a falling bomb. People got so excited, Packard recalls, that the headphones only lasted four days. "Pulling them on and off, they tore them apart." But not before they were able to do the tests and measurements that pinned down the discovery, which they reported last year in Nature (vol 388, p 449). So what makes the whistle? According to Josephson's calculations, oscillations should occur in any two pools of superfluid connected by a tiny hole. All you need is a small pressure difference between them. In an ordinary liquid, the fluid would simply flow from one side to the other. But a superfluid has other ideas. Since each fluid is a quantum substance, it has a "wave function"--an undulating wave-like form that describes its properties. This wave function depends on, among other things, a superfluid's pressure, which means that the wave functions of the two superfluid pools differ. This leads to a kind of confusion involving the atoms at the boundary between the pools. Roughly speaking, these atoms try to occupy both regions at once and end up doing a rapid quantum dance back and forth between the two. The idea is simple enough. And yet it took ten years to detect the oscillations. To do it, Packard and his colleagues had to create what is known as a "weak link". This is a hole just large enough to allow the superfluids' wave functions to overlap, yet small enough to prevent the liquids from merging into one. Making the perfect weak link relies on creating a connection with a diameter roughly equal to the "healing length" of the superfluid--the length over which the wave function remains more or less constant. For the most common form of helium--helium-4, which has two neutrons and two protons in its nucleus--that would mean punching a hole between the reservoirs that was only 0·1 nanometres in diameter, which for now is technically impossible. But helium-3, a less common isotope having only one neutron in its nucleus, has a far larger healing length, so a weak link can be 500 times larger. Even with helium-3, however, there is a problem. A good, weak link would produce a whistling so tiny as to be undetectable. So Packard's team linked their superfluid baths with a grid of 4225 identical perforations in a tiny silicon wafer (see Diagram, opposite). They were hoping that the apertures would together produce oscillations large enough to be detected. As it turns out, they were lucky. Superfluid pools They started by embedding the silicon wafer in a stiff membrane, which they glued to the bottom of an aluminium washer. A chamber filled with superfluid was made by gluing a flexible, metal-coated membrane to the top of the washer. The object was then immersed in superfluid to create two pools--one inside and one outside--connected by the tiny holes in the silicon wafer. To apply a pressure difference, the team momentarily deformed the flexible membrane with a voltage, so compressing the helium-3 trapped within the structure. This caused an oscillation across the weak links, just as Josephson had predicted in 1963. An ultra-sensitive motion sensor placed next to the washer detected the movement and sent the signal up to an oscilloscope, or the headphones. As the membrane slowly returned to its original shape, the pressure difference slowly decreased. Consequently, the oscillation frequency--proportional to the pressure difference--also fell off slowly. This explains why it was so hard to see the signal on the oscilloscope. In sweeping over a range of frequencies, it left no single "spike" on the screen. But the human ear is adept at hearing sounds with changing pitches--so the falling bomb sound was clear through the headphones. The group is still working out a complete theoretical model for its whistling superfluid, but that hasn't stopped them seeking applications. Eventually, they hope to incorporate it into the world's most sensitive gyroscope. Gyroscopes use rotating bodies to sense shifts in the direction of movement. They are essential for navigation on board ships and aeroplanes, providing an absolute reference for their orientation and movement. Using helium-4, the Berkeley team has already produced a superfluid gyroscope that can detect changes in the Earth's rotation speed with an accuracy of 0·5 per cent. Using helium-3 and "whistling links", they believe they can do much better. The design of a superfluid gyroscope is based on the fact that these quantum liquids like to remain perfectly motionless. More specifically, they prefer to remain in a state of zero angular momentum. This can happen if the fluid remains completely motionless, or, if the "amount" of rotation clockwise and anticlockwise compensate one another. If you push one part of a superfluid one way, another part will move in the opposite direction to compensate. But if the flow velocity at any point gets too high, the superfluid can save energy by allowing a "phase slip", the sudden creation of a vortex-like tornado in the superfluid. This removes excess energy from the fluid by pinching all the rotation down into a tiny tube. Packard and his team have exploited this effect to build a highly sensitive device for measuring rotation. Their apparatus lives on a 1-centimetre-square silicon chip. An etched channel spirals around the edge of the chip. At one outer end of the spiral is a relatively large (1 millimetre in diameter) hole, and at the other end is a tiny 1 micrometre hole. When immersed in a superfluid, there is a circular path around which the fluid can flow. Essentially, the device forms a ring of superfluid with a weak link fixed inside it (see Diagram, 65K). As the Earth spins, so does the chip. And this is enough to cause a compensating flow in the superfluid--a small backflow through the tiny aperture. This is too small to measure, so Packard's team has had to develop an ingenious means of watching the superfluid's motion. They covered one side of the chip with a plastic membrane. When set vibrating, this membrane pumps superfluid back and forth in the channel, so inducing a corresponding flow through the tiny aperture. At a certain point in the cycle of this alternating flow, the fluid reaches a critical velocity, which forces a vortex through the aperture. This causes a jump in the position of the membrane, and a glitch on a nearby position sensor. The glitches would happen at a fixed rate even if the device wasn't rotating. But rotation changes how the glitches occur. By slowly turning the cryostat containing the silicon chip from an east-west orientation through to north-south, Packard and his team could watch as the effect of the Earth's rotation was gradually added to the oscillating flow velocity of the superfluid, changing the glitch's position in the cycle. This change gave them a way to measure the effect of the Earth's rotation. By adding more turns and increasing the loop area, Packard believes it may be possible to improve the gyroscope's sensitivity by up to 10 000 times. But they are currently working at the limits of their laboratory, and conducting experiments in the dead of night, when no one is around to ruin the results by, for example, flushing a distant toilet. Further improvements will mean quitting the Berkeley campus to escape such vibrations. Eventually, the gyroscope may even have to be calibrated in space. One of the possible applications of the instrument is in geodesy, which is concerned with surveying and mapping the Earth. Studying the vibrations and rotation of the planet can reveal what is happening in its interior. The signals involved are exceedingly tiny, and the only way the team will be able to tell if the gyroscope is up to the task is to detach it from terrestrial vibrations--by putting it in a satellite and letting it float. If it isn't up to the task, that would probably be due to the noise introduced by the vortices as they pass through the aperture. A gyroscope made to a different design, using the whistling helium-3 weak links, doesn't rely on creating vortices. Instead, it uses quantum interference effects to detect rotation. "Our belief is that the noise is going to be a good deal smaller in this system," Packard says. Helium-3 might make the ultimate gyroscope, but it has its own problems, Packard admits. "It would need to be a thousand times colder than the helium-4, so it's technologically more difficult. Whether one would want to do it depends on whether there's a scientific problem that justifies the effort." Modern aircraft and submarines employ ring laser gyroscopes, in which revolving beams of light detect changes in orientation and position. Packard concedes that they are already as good as they need to be. Who wants to make a gyroscope that needs cooling to near absolute zero? "It's clear," he says, "that nobody's going to put this in an aeroplane when laser gyroscopes are already good enough to get you from New York to London." But superfluid gyroscopes could be put to work in other fields. Their quantum sensitivity may, for example, be sufficient to finally settle a century-old argument about Einstein's general theory of relativity. That's because superfluids on Earth pick out what physicists call an "absolute inertial frame"--they have an unnerving ability to keep still while their containers revolve around them. But what constitutes true "stillness", and to what does the helium anchor itself so as not to rotate? In an absolute inertial frame, the laws of physics are just what Einstein's special theory of relativity says they are. In particular, a body at rest should remain that way. We rotate as the Earth spins, so we clearly don't live in such a frame. The superfluid shows us how much we're rotating with respect to the ultimate state of no rotation. "The question," says Packard, "is whether this is the same frame in which the distant stars are at rest. General relativity would say that it is not." Einstein's general theory of relativity deals with gravity, and says that the proximity of the spinning Earth should change the inertial frame of anything near it. To test this, you could make a highly sensitive superfluid gyroscope, move it around, and work out what it considers to be the absolute inertial frame near the Earth. Then you can couple the superfluid gyroscope to a telescope that points at a distant star. The aim is to find out if that distant star is moving with respect to the inertial frame as detected by the gyroscope on the Earth. The measurements involved would have to be more accurate than anything currently possible, and Packard is not sure they will ever get the required accuracy. "We'll continue the development and see what happens," he says. Whatever the future holds, he is confident that his team will discover more about superfluids. This laid-back, optimistic approach exemplifies Packard's philosophy of science. He sees his research as more of a leisure pursuit than a career. Some make model aeroplanes, some people make superfluids whistle. In a world where liquids climb walls, who's to say what's strange? Michael Brooks is a freelance journalist based in Lewes, East Sussex From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 14:26:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA06690; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:21:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:21:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980921050348.00fd1a20@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 05:03:48 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon In-Reply-To: <199809211733.TAA05751@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"LKUhw2.0.Ne1.6Di1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6603 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In different words that is exactly what the situation is. Gravitational fields expand outwards from their source and diminish as they expand by the inverse square law. NASA of course uses this to put satellites in orbit. The gravitational pull from the Earth at 875 miles is actually .64 that of Earth at its surface or 20.68 ft per second squared. As the gravitational pull of the moon and the Earth expand outwards from their source, and diminishing as the surface of an expanding sphere, they reach a point of neutrality or equality. That point according to documentation is in the range of 43,495 to 38,900 miles from the moon depending on the distance at that moment between the Earth and the moon. Lee At 07:33 PM 9/21/98 +0200, you wrote: >Interesting discussion on gravity. > >Would it not be possible that a planet or larger rotating stellar body >tends to form a hollow shell, with a small centerpoint and a rather distant >shell, where a neutral gravity spherical "shell" would form between the >two? > >Recent data on space probes slowing down after passing a certain distance >from the sun might suggest that such a gravitational configuration could be >true even for the solar system as a whole?? > >- Josef > >>>So, wouldn't it be possible to say that inside a planet there is a neutral >>>point caused by the sum of the attraction forces to the center of the planet >>>and the attraction forces of the planet's upper layers ? >>> >>>This neutral point would be in a inner spherical layer. >>> >>>But this would be true only if the gravity is an attraction force. >>> >>I think this is true, but the radius = zero. I think for a force that >>depends as 1/r^2, all the force from inside the spherical shell can be >>modelled as the same force from the spherical origin. The net force from >>outside the spherical shell to the surface =0. At least I think this is true >>for electrostatics, and gravity forces follow the same form. >>-Dave > >Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY >new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com >Check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new >energy at >http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 15:32:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03095; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:29:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:29:32 -0700 Message-ID: <3606EF01.59A2@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:27:45 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Looking for Bob Lee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iyCtX.0.Am.BDj1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6604 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All: Is there someone on either of these lists named Bob Lee? Is there someone on either of these lists who knows a Bob Lee? If so, E-mail me. ESPECIALLY if the "Bob Lee" you know is an experimenter! Thank you, Kyle R. Mcallister From bilb@eskimo.com Sun Sep 20 18:04:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA22277 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:03:52 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:03:52 -0700 X-Envelope-From: axe@landoflakes.com Sun Sep 20 18:03:28 1998 Received: from unix1.sihope.com (root@unix1.sihope.com [209.98.16.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22008 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:03:27 -0700 Received: from preinstu (tc3-026.sihope.com [209.98.18.128]) by unix1.sihope.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA14844 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:29:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000601bde4dd$7a853ee0$cdeefc0a@preinstu> From: "Axehandler" To: Subject: Re: Minn Kota and Newman Old-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:27:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: THREE LAKES, WI, is like 3 hours from me... since I live in St. Paul, MN... might be worth the trip just to look at these motors =) Axehandler -----Original Message----- From: sno To: vortex-l@eskimo.com ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, September 20, 1998 1:18 PM Subject: Re: Minn Kota and Newman >Well I've got 20 bucks, (us dollars)....and don't care >if I get it back if it proves or disproves something .... > >So how about it Scott, if we send you the money will you buy and test >a motor ??.....steve opelc > >Mitchell Jones wrote: >> >> >Evan Soule wrote: . >> > >> >> In the latest Edition of his book, Joe has reported the theft of his >> >> technology by MinnKota Corp. who have made a fortune employing his designs >> >> in their trolling motors. He has stated that Dr. Roger Hastings (who has >> >> been a consultant to MinnKota) has been the conduit of information to >> >> MinnKota. >> >> >> >> What I have found curious is that MinnKota would 1) suddenly began >> >> advertising their product as "COOL POWER" (a motor that runs cool) and 2) >> >> simultaneously change the nomenclature of their trolling motors from >> >> "horsepower" to "thrust" --- at the same time that Joe has stated they >> >> began using his technology in their products >> > >> >Well, I looked up Minn Kota on the web, and found this site: >> > >> >http://www.northlandmarine.com/MinnMaxxumBowMnt.htm#Anchor##MaxxumFootContr ol >> > >> >They do advertise "cool power" and claim that the "Maximizer" delivers five >> >times more power on a single battery charge. The cheapest one advertised is >> >$454. If they really stole Newmans ideas and really get 5x more power than a >> >normal motor, I assume that this motor should be OU (given that a standard >> >motor would be more than 20% efficient). >> > >> >How about this proposal: If you are certain this motor is OU, all of Vortex >> >together scrapes up the $454 to buy one of these motors and has Scott test it. >> >> ***{This proposal has a flaw: after the testing, who owns the motor? A >> better idea would be for some member of vortex who has a personal use for a >> trolling motor to buy the thing and ship it to Scott for testing. After the >> testing--non-destructive testing, presumably--Scott can ship the motor back >> to him. Or, alternatively, I suppose it could be agreed in advance that, >> after testing, the motor will be auctioned off to the highest bidder (by >> placing a post in sci.electronics.equipment, say) and the proceeds will be >> divided among the contributors in proportion to the relative size of their >> contributions. --Mitchell Jones}*** >> >> >We make a wager -- if the motor is not OU, you agree not to post anything more >> >about Newman on Vortex. >> >> ***{This is absurd. Evan has the right to decide what he will and will not >> post. The question here is whether Newman's motor works. Period. If he, >> Newman, will not supply a motor of his own for testing, then it is >> reasonable to use the MinnKota motor as a substitute, since he claims it is >> based on his design. But we will need Evan, who is apparently the only >> conduit we have to Newman, to provide feedback during the testing process, >> to ensure that it is conducted properly. Remember: it has been claimed by >> Newman himself that there are difficulties associated with testing his >> motors. He claimed, for example, that NIST screwed up their own testing by >> grounding the motor. Since, presumably, we want to do a test that will >> actually supply useful information, we need as much feedback from the >> Newman camp as we can get. So let's drop these insulting suggestions that >> Evan place duct tape across his mouth if the motor flunks Scott's test, and >> start focusing on the question of how to determine whether the motor works. >> --Mitchell Jones}*** >> >> If it is OU, you and everyone connected with this >> >technology can write your own ticket to capitalize on the technology and make >> >tons of money. Willing to take the bet? >> > >> >Newman should not be complaing about this company. Surely he does not expect >> >to manufacture every electric motor used in the whole world. Giving up the >> >trolling motor market to validate the concept does not sound like a bad deal to >> >me. There should many billions of dollars left for him in selling into all >> >other markets for electric motors. >> > >> >-- Bob Horst > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 15:40:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA08737 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:40:01 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:40:01 -0700 X-Envelope-From: fjsparb@sprintmail.com Mon Sep 21 15:39:54 1998 Received: from magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08618; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:39:50 -0700 Received: from default (sdn-ar-002nmalbuP266.dialsprint.net [168.191.180.196]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA09136; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <013a01bde5b0$cb1381e0$158f85ce@default> From: "Frederick J Sparber" To: , Cc: Subject: Re: Looking for Bob Lee Old-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:40:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Kyle R. Mcallister To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, September 21, 1998 4:31 PM Subject: Looking for Bob Lee I once knew a Robert E. Lee, but I think he died after the Civil War. :-) FJS >All: > >Is there someone on either of these lists named Bob Lee? Is there >someone on either of these lists who knows a Bob Lee? If so, E-mail me. >ESPECIALLY if the "Bob Lee" you know is an experimenter! > >Thank you, >Kyle R. Mcallister > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 17:06:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA10359; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:02:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:02:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3607112D.2A16@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:53:33 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. References: <3.0.5.32.19980919052155.00a43e10@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980919001350.00f89480@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980920033526.009173c0@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xwOEw.0.TX2.Kak1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6605 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > I understand the doppler affect due to sound waves, and even RADAR. But not > to EM radiations from spacecraft. For instance the idea of pitched EM > radiation. I thank you for your info though. Just going to have to think > about it some to really get a full grasp and understanding of it. If you understand doppler effects in RADAR, why is it any more difficult to grasp this same concept when applied to any other EM radiations from spacecraft or any other source? Pitch in this case, is simply the frequency of the emitted EM wave. If I move a transmitter towards a receiver, its apparent frequency of transmission goes up in direct proportion to its velocity towards the transmitter. If the transmitter is moving away from the receiver the aparent frequency drops. If the transmitter is fixed, and the receiver moves towards the transmitter the effect is the same, an increase in apparent frequency, or an apparent drop in frequency if the receiver is being moved away from the source. But in all cases the frequency shift is directly related to the relative velocity between the signal source and destination. This is true for signals from aircraft as well as spacecraft. This is not a problem for aircraft communications because their relativly lower speeds do not shift the apparent transmitted frequency far enough away from the 'standard' frequencies (around 120 Mhz in the US.). Oribital sattelites move much faster, and the effect is more pronounced. With relativly common equipment, we can actually measure the doppler frequency shift from transmitters moving at quite low speeds, such as transmitters place on cars, etc. Microwave motion detectors can often respond to doppler frequency shifts of only a few herts per gigahertz. This is a very real effect we can actually measure, not some absurd projection from an unsupported theory. BTW, I never recall anyone describing yawning chasms swallowing dinosaurs when they described how oil deposits form. Then again, I suspect that the fossil evidence complete with oil deposits, is unimportant, and the impressions of fern leaves in coal is only a theory. So why should we bother to teach anything any differently than we do now? Why beleive whats in the books at all? If you learn what is in the books, you should learn how to test for what is actually true. In school, it was far more important to show that we understood this than it was to show that you remembered the words in the book itself. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 17:12:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA14396; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:10:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:10:30 -0700 Message-ID: <3606EAC7.35CA8544@home.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:09:43 -0400 From: Tom Patierno Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-AtHome0404 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] References: <3602E7D1.52F7@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <3.0.5.32.19980917105000.00fc8460@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980917121852.00fcbcf0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980917100415.00fae650@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4YSOQ3.0.qW3.rhk1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6606 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > > could postulate that the aether has a Phi ratioed substructure and that > >its evolving fractality is resonsible for all phenomena. So who threw the > >original stone into the pond? > > > >Peter Nielsen > > > > Why YVHV, of course - Not. YHVH, eh? Patierno From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 17:31:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA23023; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:25:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:25:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3607167C.225B@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:16:12 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. References: <3.0.5.32.19980919073412.00faf100@rockisland.com> <36054d7e.329445379@mail-hub> <3.0.5.32.19980920034311.00915c90@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ud2KX2.0.fd5.Svk1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6607 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > The gist of my questions and posts is that perhaps, our ignorance about > light, what it is made up of and what it is, and the misinterpretation of > what we see coming out the other end of a prism, has led us into to some > bassackwards beliefs. > > That maybe a shift towards red, means the object is approaching us and a > shift towards blue means the object is moving away. This is clearly wrong. We do know that approaching objects are shifted upwards in frequency, and receeding objects shifted downwards. This is proven every day by many well proven technologies like RADAR. It was also pointed out that we can actually measure different colors or light to see which are longer or shorter than others. Optical resonator cavities clearly show that red light is longer than blue light. We know this from direct, mechanical measurments. This has nothing to do with books, laws or theory. > Even now, data is coming in that throws these beliefs into question. But > not much courage is being shown in revisiting these beliefs and "laws". Lets test this courage, more specifically, your personal courage in this matter! You wrote: > I'm merely suggesting that because of a misconception of light made 200 > years ago by Young. That we don't really understand light at all. In fact > there is very little devoted to light in physics books. Everything we think > we know is just taken for granted and passed on as "fact". Based on your earlier writings, it appears to me that you do not correctly understand the actual results of Young's experiment, much less the signifigance of those results. You suggest that 'we don't really undrestand light at all', and I suggest that you do not understand Young at all, and that the misconceptions here are mainly yours. I have some personal familiarity with Young's experiment. I'd like to ask you to describe the actual experimental setup, the results, and then please show us all this misinterpretation you claim we suffer from. You have made your claims, please present your case to support those claims. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 18:13:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA13283; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:11:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:11:39 -0700 Message-ID: <3607216E.6A53@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:02:54 -0700 From: Bob Shannon Organization: Fair at best X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. References: <3.0.5.32.19980921020231.00fcce70@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ta_aG1.0.NF3.Abl1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6608 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > Educated or indoctrinated Rick. 8 years in University and I look back on > the obvious, I was being told what to think, not how to think. Then you went to the wrong schools, long before you went to the University. A good school teaches you how to think before highschool graduation. > And I am not simply reversing things that have been "well known for years". > > If the "well known for years" did in fact reflect reality and could be > proven by experiment, sampling, testing I would not have made a post. I disagree Lee, Look back on the thread about Ohm's law only giving approximate results. Here was a claim that was directly testable. It was also a false claim apparently based on a misconception rather than on evidence. > It is our problem that we worship authority. It is simple a form of mind > control.The oldest. Religion, history, science and the constant drill of > the mis education system pounds in our heads by repition - the "facts" > which we are suppose to memorize and regurgitate. That opinion may have been formed by your educational experiances. Mine experiance was very different. We were taught to think critically, and test for what was true, and only then choose what to beleive. Maybe you should give a good education in science a second chance? It really appears that you are more interested in 'trolling' than any actual testing. Dogma is not an objective described in the list rules. While we all have a delete key, it still takes time to download and sort through the list traffic. Thats why we have list rules and delete keys. One is not a substitute for the other. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 18:39:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA25214; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:37:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:37:56 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980921093057.00fe4df0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:30:57 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. In-Reply-To: <3607112D.2A16@tiac.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980919052155.00a43e10@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980919001350.00f89480@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980920033526.009173c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"uWWwp1.0.r96.pzl1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6609 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:53 PM 9/21/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: > > >BTW, I never recall anyone describing yawning chasms swallowing >dinosaurs when>they described how oil deposits form. Then again, I suspect that the >fossil evidence complete with oil deposits, is unimportant, and the >impressions of fern leaves in coal is only a theory. Oh, they didn't describe yawning chasms. They gave no explanation at all, simply said oil was formed from dead dinosarus. If you believe oil comes from dead dinosaurs then explain to me how herds of hundreds of thousands managed to get trapped 2 or more miles below the surface of the Earth As regards fossil evidence from oil deposits. There is none. The current theory is oil is formed from sedimentation carried under the plate edges by subduction. This however invokes Maxwell's demon, directing rock to magma and biogenic material to oil formation. Stephen Jay Gould and others have advanced the notion that oil is abiogenic and have dug exploratory holes in Sweden where there is no subduction zones. As regards the formation of coal, that is a different story what so ever. Actually there is no theory offered, or none that I have heard, for the formation of coal. However it seems that, the only way coal fields could be formed was if there was a massive collapse of a portion of the Earth's surface, near say large bodies of water, the inrushing water would then sweep organic material in front of it. I can think of no other mechanism by which whole forests of trees could be found hundreds and thousands of feet below the Earth's Surface, and fossilized. As a matter of fact, if you look at the chemistry of the whole thing, it would take a tremendous amount of water overlying the broken trees to start and complete the carbonization process of making coal. How about this. When the Earths crust was cooling, pockets of gas got trapped in the crust (glass blowers and iron mongers know this). As the crust hardened these pockets were elongated into tunnels and chambers. The rotational force of the Earth (coriolis force) squeezed (squeezes) this gas through the chambers and tunnels. Eventually the pressure builds up and a chamber blows out. I would imagine that these coal forests were formed at a time before the mountains were formed and perhaps the ocean was say only a 100ft deep and the land a max elevation of 100ft. A blow out of a chamber and the subsequent subsidience of the land, would have an effect say of dropping a rock on the shore of a pond. Just speculating. But what interests me most of all is the story oft told, but never a mechanism is ventured. The same is true with the ice ages. We are told there were at least two, but no mechanism given. Imagine having two ice ages lasting hundreds of thousands of years, in a time in which the Earth was obviously much warmer than today, being much younger and orbiting a much younger and more vigorous sun. In any event there is a big difference between coal fields and oil fields in the depth at which they are found. Like 2 miles or more. >Why beleive whats in the books at all? Now that is a damn good question. It cames down to belief. Belief in authority. When belief takes hold, questions, exploration and the quest for knowledge and truth grinds to a halt. Belief is a profession of faith. A profession of all knowing. Strip a man of his beliefs and he stands naked having to take responsibility for his own thoughts and actions. His own lazines inability to think. Fill him full of beliefs and he avoids the necessity to think, but also avoids taking responsibility for his laziness, credulity and gullibility. > >If you learn what is in the books, you should learn how to test for what >is >actually true. In school, it was far more important to show that we >understood this than it was to show that you remembered the words in the >book itself. In school we weren't told to test anything. We were told what was and that was that, especially in 6th grade. And science believes in a lot of stuff that they can not test or prove except by virtue of mathematics. But one can prove anything mathetmatically, it all depends on the assumptions and the values assigned those assumptions. I guess a heretic like me, that refuses to bend the knee to august authority is a threat to civilization and science. Lee > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 18:40:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA25242; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:37:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:37:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980921092551.00fe7da0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:25:51 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: [Fwd: Gravitational anomaly] In-Reply-To: <3606EAC7.35CA8544@home.com> References: <3602E7D1.52F7@mlb.planet.gen.nz> <3.0.5.32.19980917105000.00fc8460@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980917121852.00fcbcf0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980917100415.00fae650@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0MK-o3.0.CA6.rzl1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6610 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:09 PM 9/21/98 -0400, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: >> >> > could postulate that the aether has a Phi ratioed substructure and that >> >its evolving fractality is resonsible for all phenomena. So who threw the >> >original stone into the pond? >> > >> >Peter Nielsen >> > >> >> Why YVHV, of course - Not. >YHVH, eh? > >Patierno YES YVHW. I AM THE LORD THY GOD DON'T EVER DOUBT ME. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 18:48:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA28820; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:46:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:46:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980921093938.00fdae00@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:39:38 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. In-Reply-To: <3607167C.225B@tiac.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980919073412.00faf100@rockisland.com> <36054d7e.329445379@mail-hub> <3.0.5.32.19980920034311.00915c90@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZG3qW3.0.D27.t5m1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6611 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Not arguing the doppler effect Bob. Just arguing the redshift means the object is receeding. With red being a shift upwards then it is approaching, and with blue being a shift downwards. Takes me back to the water thing. Higher frequency EM does not penetrate as far as lower frequency EM. Hence redlight is filtered out in the first 30'ft of water. Current redshift theory then is backasswards. Thank you for the confirmation. At 08:16 PM 9/21/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: > > > >> The gist of my questions and posts is that perhaps, our ignorance about >> light, what it is made up of and what it is, and the misinterpretation of >> what we see coming out the other end of a prism, has led us into to some >> bassackwards beliefs. >> >> That maybe a shift towards red, means the object is approaching us and a >> shift towards blue means the object is moving away. > >This is clearly wrong. We do know that approaching objects are shifted >upwards in frequency, and receeding objects shifted downwards. > >This is proven every day by many well proven technologies like RADAR. > >It was also pointed out that we can actually measure different colors >or light to see which are longer or shorter than others. Optical >resonator >cavities clearly show that red light is longer than blue light. We know >this from direct, mechanical measurments. > >This has nothing to do with books, laws or theory. > > > >> Even now, data is coming in that throws these beliefs into question. But >> not much courage is being shown in revisiting these beliefs and "laws". > >Lets test this courage, more specifically, your personal courage in this >matter! > >You wrote: > >> I'm merely suggesting that because of a misconception of light made 200 >> years ago by Young. That we don't really understand light at all. In fact >> there is very little devoted to light in physics books. Everything we think >> we know is just taken for granted and passed on as "fact". > >Based on your earlier writings, it appears to me that you do not >correctly >understand the actual results of Young's experiment, much less the >signifigance of those results. > >You suggest that 'we don't really undrestand light at all', and I >suggest that >you do not understand Young at all, and that the misconceptions here are >mainly yours. I have some personal familiarity with Young's experiment. > >I'd like to ask you to describe the actual experimental setup, the >results, and then please show us all this misinterpretation you claim we >suffer from. > >You have made your claims, please present your case to support those >claims. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 18:57:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA00348; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:54:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:54:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980921094806.00afe650@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:48:06 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. In-Reply-To: <3607216E.6A53@tiac.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980921020231.00fcce70@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"tejoM1.0.w4.oDm1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6612 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:02 PM 9/21/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: > > > >> Educated or indoctrinated Rick. 8 years in University and I look back on >> the obvious, I was being told what to think, not how to think. > >Then you went to the wrong schools, long before you went to the >University. >A good school teaches you how to think before highschool graduation. These then resorts to banter. All of our education is spent learning what to think, not how to think. Look at History classes for instance. >> And I am not simply reversing things that have been "well known for years". >> >> If the "well known for years" did in fact reflect reality and could be >> proven by experiment, sampling, testing I would not have made a post. > >I disagree Lee, Look back on the thread about Ohm's law only giving >approximate results. Here was a claim that was directly testable. >It was also a false claim apparently based on a misconception rather >than on evidence.] Ter hell with Ohm's Law. That was an issue you raised in the first place, as an example where the "law" holds, as though I was "attacking" all laws. In debate that is called setting up a strawmen. In reality it was a non sequitur. There are still those who work in the field that says Ohm's law gives only approximate results. You can argue that with them, till the cows come home. The Inverse Square Law has been tested, measured and proved and I have no problem at all with it for that reason. But it was "found" by Newton. I do have a serious problem with the Universal Law of Gravitation. He should have stopped while he was ahead. But like all authors, songwriters etc. They have to follow up a hit, with a sequel, and another and another. Barry Manlow should have stopped with Brandy. >That opinion may have been formed by your educational experiances. Mine >experiance was very different. We were taught to think critically, and >test for what was true, and only then choose what to beleive. Uh huh, if you say so. Then why do you believe in things which you can't test and prove. >Maybe you should give a good education in science a second chance? If I can find one. I will Bob. > >It really appears that you are more interested in 'trolling' than any >actual testing. Dogma is not an objective described in the list rules. >While we all have a delete key, it still takes time to download and sort >through the list traffic. Thats why we have list rules and delete >keys. One is not a substitute for the other. Thanks for the reminder, kiss, kiss. When David has enough I'll shut up and shut down. Meanwhile stop playing Herr Fuerher., or is that Herr Censor. Lee > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 21 22:33:25 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA26544; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:30:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:30:32 -0700 Message-ID: <028001bde5e9$e1d1b6c0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Superfluid Helium and the Inertial Reference Frame Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:44:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"HtYqT2.0.gU6.uNp1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6613 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Neat stuff, it flows up against gravity, could there be a supersolid? >You can find the New-Scientist link describing this at: > >http://www.newscientist.com/usa/bayarea/bayarea.html > >Click on the superfluid helium link > > >Best regards > >David Callaghan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bill Wallace > >>>Have you heard of the work being performed at the University of California >>>by Richard Packard and Seamus Davis regarding liquid helium (a >>Bose-Einstein >>>Condensate) and its connection with the 'absolute inertial reference >>frame'? >>> > >>I have not heard of it, could you provide any more info? > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 22 01:21:06 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA12576; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:19:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:19:10 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 04:16:23 -0400 From: Ralph E Griffin Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Sender: Ralph E Griffin To: Free Energy List Message-ID: <199809220416_MC2-5A33-CE75@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA12548 Resent-Message-ID: <"IVHbK3.0.J43.zrr1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6614 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, With all the talk about the cooling effect, would anyone care to offer a rebuttal to the comments made by David L. Wenbert (dwenbert@SPACEY.NET) on July 15? Would anyone care to identify the difference between the cooling devices under discussion and the cooling device described by David? I am not familiar with this effect known as 'adiabatic paramagnetic demagnetization'. I wonder, if heat is being pumped from one place to another, then where is the 'other' place to which the heat is being pumped? Quoted message follows: Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:40:27 -0400 From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Re: Re : Re: A COOLING effect has been observed. Message-Id: <199807151743.NAA00076@surfergirl.spacey.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lets not get carried away with ourselves.... I believe that I can help to clarify one of the current 'mysteries' that everyone is getting so worked up over. The cooling effect in Newmanesque dynamos, and in solid state high frequency zeroue devices is neither unusual nor does it require that 'reverse entropy' be invoked to explain it. It is not evidence of overunity performance, nor does it provide support for the theory of vacuum energy. The aether/vacuum/virtual particle flux/quantum state/dirac sea is not involved in this cooling process in any way, whatsoever. The cooling effect IS real, it most definately does occur, and it should surprise no one. In fact, we should find it more unusual if there were NOT a persistent refrigeration effect taking place in these devices. It is a phenomenon known as 'adiabatic paramagnetic demagnetization', and has been recognized for many years to occur when strong magentic fields are rapidly and repeatedly removed from certain conductive materials. It is known to be approximately as efficient as traditional mechanical refrigeration, when you take all of the system costs into account, but it is very energy intensive. Pulsed magnetic fields tend to dampen out the random molecular motion, thereby essentially eliminating heat; the heat doesn't go anywhere, it just stops. The process is not unlike nuclear magentic resonance used in medical Magnetic Resonance Imaging ("MRI") scans, where the magnetic moment of all of the atoms are suddenly aligned for a single instant by a strong outside magetic field; in APD refrigeration, the alignment is made to occur again and again, and this slowly overcomes the random molecular vibration that is heat. Its like putting your hand on a bell that has just been struck, and damping out the sound. Many industrial and scientific products are already on the market using adiabatic paramagnetic demagnetization to produce extremely cold temperatures. All of the record cold temperatures achieved in the last 20 years were obtained by this method, and nothing approaching absolute zero has ever been produced by any other means. This is also the only way that helium can be liquified. Laboratories around the world have deep cryo refrigeration units based on the technology, and they are now available off-the-shelf out of catalogues. In addition, the technology is being applied to the problem of cooling electronics enclosures where dense circuit boards radiate too much heat for simple air circulation via muffin fans to control. There is at least one IC out now which is a complete, compact, APD refrigerator on a single chip, sold under the trade name "Frigi-Chip"; you build it onto your printed circuit board along with the other discrete components, and it simply eats up the heat that the others throw off. Its pretty neat when you think about it....but it doesn't violate the superstitions of thermodynamics because it does require energy to eliminate the heat. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 22 02:15:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA24783; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 02:09:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 02:09:11 -0700 Message-ID: <360870F4.52EA@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:54:28 -0700 From: Stuart Rae X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. References: <3.0.5.32.19980919073412.00faf100@rockisland.com> <36054d7e.329445379@mail-hub> <3.0.5.32.19980920034311.00915c90@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980921093938.00fdae00@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5dmFQ1.0.636.sas1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6615 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > Not arguing the doppler effect Bob. Just arguing the redshift means the > object is receeding. With red being a shift upwards then it is approaching, > and with blue being a shift downwards. > Whichever way round it might be (and I've read both explanations elsewhere), I haven't seen anyone mention the "tired light" theory here yet. As I understand it, a 'red shift' can be caused by a slowing down of 'light' as it traverses space. In other words, what evidence is there that it has to move at some constant speed all the time?....(C?)... apart from Einstein that is.... If this is an alternative explanation to any doppler effect, so be it. And wouldn't it also perhaps explain exactly what NASA has observed? ---------------------- Another matter of passing interest... (was it about gravity or relativity?) Someone mentioned (Lee?) a possible different interpretation regarding the effects on atomic clocks in orbit ( i.e. is it time change, or a decay change caused by a different gravitational environment?). Just read an article recently that happened to mention: "....The satellite network known as the Global Positioning System has shown that all atomic clocks on board orbiting satellites moving at high speeds in different directions can be simultaneously and continuously synchronized with each other and with all ground clocks; no 'relativity or simultaneity' corrections, as required by special relativity, are needed." I guess that must say something. Regards, SR -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 22 03:31:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA16227; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 03:28:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 03:28:12 -0700 Message-ID: <000601bde613$d4ba7b00$96d2989e@david-callaghan> From: "David Callaghan" To: Subject: Interesting website Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:29:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"qfv5l3.0.Sz3.xkt1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6616 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All Very interesting ideas can be found at: http://www.energyscience.co.uk The author is a retired corporate patents director and also a qualified physicist. His email address is: h.aspden@physics.org (in case you miss it) Best regards David Callaghan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 22 06:53:48 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA07353; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:52:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:52:00 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:53:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <360870F4.52EA@mlb.planet.gen.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"qPgl9.0.mo1._jw1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6617 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Stuart Rae wrote: > Lee Markland wrote: > > > > > Not arguing the doppler effect Bob. Just arguing the redshift means the > > object is receeding. With red being a shift upwards then it is approaching, > > and with blue being a shift downwards. > > > > Whichever way round it might be (and I've read both explanations elsewhere), > I haven't seen anyone mention the "tired light" theory here yet. As I > understand it, a 'red shift' can be caused by a slowing down of 'light' as it > traverses space. In other words, what evidence is there that it has to move > at some constant speed all the time?....(C?)... apart from Einstein that > is.... > > If this is an alternative explanation to any doppler effect, so be it. And > wouldn't it also perhaps explain exactly what NASA has observed? > It's funny you should mention that! The thought crossed my mind last night just before I went to sleep. Back in the early 70's there was an article in an amateur radio magazine I subscribed to titled "Light Naturally Runs Down". I forget the author's name, but I remember his theory. He thought it was a function mainly of distance, so that objects farther away would have more noticeable red shifts than closer ones. He also stated that the intergalactic dist clouds, etc. also had some bearing, so it wasn't strictly a function of distance. I'll see if I can track down the article. Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 22 11:09:13 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA00108; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:04:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:04:31 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980922090306.00d23270@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 02:03:06 -0700 To: Bill McMurtry From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Power source/Searl story Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, vortex-L@eskimo.com, Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, alex@frolov.spb.ru, ahannan@MIT.EDU, deadnuts@deadnuts.com, lupem@world.std.com, peg@wintergreen.com, bso@acm.org, claudeg@world.std.com, DaleSVP@ipa.net, dtassen@c-zone.net, sweetser@world.std.com, clsmith@darwin.bu.edu, ccantor@sequenom.com, 76753.3551@CompuServe.COM, eben@ergeng.com, ehill@world.std.com, leep@world.std.com, ejp@world.std.com, wordpros@inforamp.net, moy@ziplink.net, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, jkokor@alum.mit.edu, Jeane Manning , 72240.1256@CompuServe.COM, Bensinger@bdhepa.hep.brandeis.edu, Jim Hile , jim@msri.org, discjt@servtech.com, John Ranta , jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk, joshprokop@worldnet.att.net, Leonard Dvorson , atc@wit.edu, ohl@world.std.com, pgm@world.std.com, rsmith@itiip.com, raddison@world.std.com, 71022.3001@CompuServe.COM, 73577.123@CompuServe.COM, thiahadge@aol.com, tcapizzi@world.std.com, tom.duff@poweroasis.com, TAFAUL@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"dETHF2.0.S1.kQ-1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6618 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:09 PM 9/22/98 +1000, you wrote: >Hi Dennis, > >At 13:59 21/09/98 -0700, Dennis C. Lee wrote: >> >>Could these people have been threatened? If threats were made, and Searl's >>technology checked out, would you tell everyone who called asking about it? >>Now that Fergie's mother has died in a car crash, there may be reason to >>question the ethics of happenings in England. > >So, you think Searl has nobody to back his claims because EVERYONE has been >threatened? Spare me the conspiracy theories Dennis. Too easy and totally >irrelevant! So if Professor Searl is right, you believe that the people who are receiving great wealth from the way things are now will take faith that they will be able to maintain their status after implementing the new technology. They know that it will be for the good of society and will therefore work to build from scratch. They all have access to David Hudson's monatomics so time is no longer a concern. They will trust that hard work and fair play will get them where they were because that's how they did it before. They have faith that mankind has the maturity and ethics to handle the responsibility of this powerful technology because it is understood by all that working for the greater good is the best one can do and brings one the most satisfaction and everyone has developed the ability and desire to do this by instinct. Money is only a tool which the wealthy have used to do only positive things for society. It would not occur to them to use theats or worse to suppress this new technology because they know negative acts stick to their life force energy and they realise it would be of no use for the technical people will continue research regardless. You say threats are irrelevent because you yourself would not stop working on this technology because it's for the greater good. Your life really isn't worth living if you can't do this research so you will risk the repercussions of ignoring the threats and you will tell anyone who calls whatever they want to know. Oh ya, and everyone is developed enough to be totally honest about everything, right? >>He has probably tried that approach. Searl is an example of society >>suppressing its' inventors for doing too good a job. Searl's behavior is the >>result of his having to do too much of the R&D without mainstream support >>for too long a time. We should all shed tears for what has happened to >>Professor Searl (we're probably next). :( > >Searl's behavior could be the result of a lot of things . Once again, >where is the evidence for all this R&D effort? Anything? While Searl >continues to hide behind a veil of smoke and mirrors, he deserves ZERO >respect, let alone tears. What makes you think that he is hiding behind a veil of smoke and mirrors? How can you be sure that alternative motives fitting the same facts are impossible? How much time have you researched Professor Searl's life and achievements? Surely you wouldn't consider making such statements without being absolutely sure. Giving the benefit of the doubt versus absolute condemnation calls for different levels of confidence in the facts in my opinion. >>Next time, offer Professor Searl 1500 pounds for a look at the magnet >>(market rate admission price for state of the art previews in the >>semiconductor industry I believe). > >What evidence do you have that Searl actually ever created a single working >device? Have you spent 1500 pounds for a private preview of Searl's proof >of principal? If not, then maybe it's not just 1500 pounds, maybe it's a >trillion pounds so that nobody can afford it and he gets to keep playing >'the game' - Come on! Professor Searl told me that 1500 pounds is the going rate. Then again, I honestly respect the man for his work. I keep in mind the hardship he's been through and will give him all the slack he needs and I will always maintain proper respect no matter what. BTW, if I came to you with the same attitude as you have for Professor Searl, how much would you charge me for your life's work? >>God willing and humanity being worthy, >>Professor Searl will find his properly respected place as being at least an >>equal to Tesla's level of technical genius. :) > >You know, there's a huge difference between Tesla's and Searl's >achievements - Tesla demonstrated over and over the creation of practical >devices. Searl just talks about it, over and over. (somewhat inconsistantly >over time, I might add). Should he actually produce some physical >demonstration to back up the hot air, then perhaps I could start comparing >him to other great achievers. Until then... what do you think? Do you remember how Tesla ended up? After he gave us AC power, he suddenly had completely wrong and delusional ideas and deserved to be deprived of R&D funding for the last 40 or so years of his life right? J.P. Morgan shut Tesla out because of the delusion that Wardencliffe would self resonate and give power to anyone in the world who could wind a coil. Morgan was sure this was impossible and his investments in conventional powerplants and the electrical powerline grid had nothing to do with stopping Tesla. Morgan was an honest and forthright person who only worked for the good of society right? >As for us unworthy, unwashed, ungrateful peoples of the world - give me a >break, heard it all before... utter crap! Professor of what? Ever asked >Searl how he obtained his professorship and from where and for what (nicely >of course)? You may be one of the faithful blind followers - not me baby, >it takes more than an endlessly meandering hot air ballon ride to turn me >on these days . I invite you to substantiate your support for Searl with >something more than idol worship. I assume it takes more than a tall story >to gain your support? Look up Herman Weyl's 'Theory of Groups & Quantum Mechanics'. Some of Professor Searl's Magic Squares are based on Klein 4 group math. In my opinion, Professor Searl is lightyears ahead of a personal acquaintance who spent at least 10 years working on the same math trying to do much the same thing. When I showed that aquaintance Professor Searl's Magic Squares, he immediately recognized the matrix structure. He then grew somewhat resentful and was quite negative toward Professor Searl's work. I think it has something to do with trying your best and seeing someone on a level you think you can never reach by your own efforts. I personally see such situations as opportunities to learn not reasons to get upset. To see such ability inspires me. >With evidence, belief becomes irrelevant. > >Regards, Bill. > >P.S. Just thought I'd mention it before you propose it: I've not been paid >off nor am I a government agent, CIA, alien cross-breed, God knows what >else, Searl hater. > >I just can not see the sense in allowing the unsubstantiated claims of >Searl (or anybody else for that matter) to continue waisting productive >lives in a mindless, fruitless search while real progress will be made >elsewhere. I think it should be said. How much money and effort and time >has been invested already by the 'unworthy' people of the world FOLLOWING >Searl's claims, with nothing to show for it? EVIDENCE BRINGS RESPECT. IMO, >Searl should prove his case or... but he can't, can he. You know Dennis, >this about sums it up - Searl will be remembered as one of the greatest >frauds of the latter half of the 20th Century. IMCO, of course. Wanna bet? 1500 pounds each for Professor Searl's preview tickets. Loser pays all expenses. If more than a few want to come along, I'll just accept 1500 pounds each. Professor Searl would then get the other 1500 pounds each. That's 1500 British pounds sterling of course. Be forewarned that I am capable of defending myself and Professor Searl, so there will be no funny business whatsoever. If necessary, my life says so. Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 22 12:38:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA08434; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:35:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:35:16 -0700 Message-ID: <19980922193734.29740.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:37:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Anton Rager Subject: Signing Off..... To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"l3mJx1.0.g32.ql_1s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6619 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: So long all, Due to the other activites in my life, I just don't have time to follow Vortex-L/Freenrg-L anymore. This will be my last post. My mailbox keeps filling up, and I must get on with other things in life. Good luck to the group[s] on producing a working OU/CF/AntiGravity device sometime soon. == Anton Rager a_rager@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 22 14:45:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06153; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:30:51 -0600 To: From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: AN INTERESTING LETTER... Resent-Message-ID: <"vvdVy2.0.3W1.4b12s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6620 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: AN INTERESTING LETTER... For those who might not have seen this letter..... [The following letter was forwarded to my attention. (To respect their privacy, several names and/or addresses/phone numbers are not included.)] [Letter on stationery with seal of USDOE] Department of Energy Washington, DC 20585 May 12, 1998 [date stamped] Mr. William Thomas Washington, D.C. 20038 Dear Mr. Thomas: Let me take this opportunity to thank you for participating in the Comprehensive National Energy Strategy (CNES) hearings in Washington [19FEB98]. During your presentation the Secretary committed to a response to your questions about the Department's investigation of Zero Point Energy (ZPE). Department of Energy scientists and others have investigated zero point energy sciences and are still in the stage of demonstratintg scientific feasibility. Thus far, results clearly show that there is a net residual energy even at the zero absolute temperature, under vacuum conditions. A number of technical papers have been published in respected journals stating that, theoretically, zero point energy can be extracted from electromagnetic fluctuations of the vacuum. Additionally, eight patents have been issued on zero point energy, including one issued to the Air Force Rocket Propulsion Laboratory. Presently, scientific feasibility studies are in the beginning stages and the development of a technology for energy production from ZPE may be decades away. More information about ZPE is attached for your use. I hope this information and the enclosure are helpful. Sincerely, Robert W. Gee Assistant Secretary Office of Policy and International Affairs ___________________________________________________ Personally, I find the above letter significant. For more than 30 years, Joseph Newman has sent the Department of Energy (and/or related Federal agencies) information about his discoveries concerning a new source of energy: the proper harnessing of the Gyroscopic Massergy's kinetic energy. Finally, this new source of energy is beginning to be "officially" recognized by the DOE. I also find of great interest the following statement from the above letter: "....EIGHT PATENTS HAVE BEEN ISSUED ON ZERO POINT ENERGY, INCLUDING ONE ISSUED TO THE AIR FORCE ROCKET PROPULSION LABORATORY." It would be interesting to read these 8 patents --- especially the one issued to the Air Force Rocket Propulsion Laboratory. The "ZPE" is actually the Gyroscopic Massergy about which Joseph Newman has written for over 30 years. Sincerely, Evan Soule' From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 22 15:17:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA16774; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:15:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:15:23 -0700 Message-ID: <36082A07.559@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:13:41 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: JL Naudin's ZPF motor and the Bifield-Brown effect References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QzGjS.0.z54.w522s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6621 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > Yes, a pattern consisting of a growing list of unconvincing experiments > that stir up quite a bit of interest, suspicion and rumor, yet fail to > properly take electrostatic or some other effects into account so that it > amounts to proof that something anomalous is going on. I doubt very much that stray electrostatic effects can cause a device to point in the same direction at two locations 50kM apart. The of that happening are exceedingly low. > > Nobody wants there to be a real BB or related effect more than me. But I > want to get it from an experiment that shuts the door on any possible > electrostatic explanation. I don't believe what we've seen so far goes > anywhere near proof that such effects exist. But I'm hoping. What do you suggest? Vacuum: not good enough. Metal shield: not good enough... Why don't we build a very HV power supply, 300kV+, build a B-Brown device, wrap it in layers of lightweight metal foil, and see if it lifts off? Get an e-meter nearby if you suspect electrostatic effects. I also forgot to mention that NASA is again interested in the effect... Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 22 17:20:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00710; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:17:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:17:21 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980922074412.0100f950@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:44:12 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: A tentative explanation for slowing of Spacecraft. In-Reply-To: <360870F4.52EA@mlb.planet.gen.nz> References: <3.0.5.32.19980919073412.00faf100@rockisland.com> <36054d7e.329445379@mail-hub> <3.0.5.32.19980920034311.00915c90@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980921093938.00fdae00@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ujAYM2.0.vA.Gu32s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6622 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks Stu: That's a keeper. And yes tired light is a possibility. We don't know for sure and have no way of knowing just what light does, or how fast it travels. I would suspect that as it expands outwards from its source, diminishing as it does, that it does get "tired" (weakened). Experiments have proven as stated that the speed of light does vary, thus it can not be considered a constant. And thanks for the posting on the atomic clocks, thus further validating my own observation. The only thing that holds true about the emission rate of the cesium in the atomic clocks is that gravity does affect their rate of emission. Speed ain't got nothing to do with it. I wonder if they will allow me to take over the NSF. I bet we will have ZPE and be zipping around in antigrav vehicles within 5 years - ROFL. Just turn those creative influences loose, throw money at you guys, no strings attached. Sure would make a better world and free us from the Oil Cartel. Lee At 08:54 PM 9/22/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: > >> >> Not arguing the doppler effect Bob. Just arguing the redshift means the >> object is receeding. With red being a shift upwards then it is approaching, >> and with blue being a shift downwards. >> > >Whichever way round it might be (and I've read both explanations elsewhere), >I haven't seen anyone mention the "tired light" theory here yet. As I >understand it, a 'red shift' can be caused by a slowing down of 'light' as it >traverses space. In other words, what evidence is there that it has to move >at some constant speed all the time?....(C?)... apart from Einstein that >is.... > >If this is an alternative explanation to any doppler effect, so be it. And >wouldn't it also perhaps explain exactly what NASA has observed? > >---------------------- > >Another matter of passing interest... (was it about gravity or relativity?) >Someone mentioned (Lee?) a possible different interpretation regarding the >effects on atomic clocks in orbit ( i.e. is it time change, or a decay change >caused by a different gravitational environment?). > >Just read an article recently that happened to mention: > >"....The satellite network known as the Global Positioning System has shown >that all atomic clocks on board orbiting satellites moving at high speeds in >different directions can be simultaneously and continuously synchronized with >each other and with all ground clocks; no 'relativity or simultaneity' >corrections, as required by special relativity, are needed." > >I guess that must say something. > >Regards, > >SR > >-- > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 22 20:59:40 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA17497; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:57:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:57:04 -0700 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Cc: ralph_griffin@CompuServe.COM Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:45:51 -0700 Subject: re: cooling effect ideas Message-ID: <19980922.205135.3590.0.tv@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4,6-10,12-23,26-31,35-44,46-53,55,57,59-63, 65-67,69-74,76-82,84,86-88,90-92,94-97,99-140,142-170,172-184 From: tv@juno.com (Tim Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"zJ_pM.0.2H4.F672s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6623 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Ralph E Griffin said: >With all the talk about the cooling effect, would anyone care to offer a >rebuttal to the comments made by David L. Wenbert (dwenbert@SPACEY.NET) on >July 15? Would anyone care to identify the difference between the cooling >devices under discussion and the cooling device described by David? >I am not familiar with this effect known as 'adiabatic paramagnetic >demagnetization'. I wonder, if heat is being pumped from one place to >another, then where is the 'other' place to which the heat is being pumped? Hi Ralph, Thank You for reposting the attached message from David L. Wenbert. First I would like to quote a definition of 'adiabatic paramagnetic demagnetization'. >Quote from NASA online glossary/thesauruses: >from: http://gopher.sti.nasa.gov/thesaurus/A/word183.html >ADIABATIC DEMAGNETIZATION COOLING > Use of paramagnetic salts cooled to the boiling point of helium in a strong >magnetic field, then thermally isolated and removed from the field to demagnetize > the salts and attain temperatures of 10(-3) K. and then... >MAGNETIC COOLING > Keeping a substance cooled to about 0.2 K by using a working substance >(paramagnetic salt) in a cycle of processes between a high-temperature reservoir >(liquid helium) at 1.2 K and a low temperature reservoir containing the substance to >be cooled. --------- from Tim Vaughan: Please note that ADIABATIC DEMAGNETIZATION COOLING is a cyclical process that works because some materials like the paramagnetic salts (certain Gadolinium compounds are particularly effective ) absorb heat when they are removed from a strong magnetic field or the magnetic field is otherwise removed. When these same materials are again placed in a magnetic field they give up heat. So like other refrigeration processes, it is a cyclical process. HEAT IS MOVED from one place to another. ADIABATIC DEMAGNETIZATION COOLING does not "simply eat up the heat". Energy cannot simply disappear, it must be transported or transformed ! Device that use ADIABATIC DEMAGNETIZATION COOLING to move heat do not necessarily have moving parts. Heat can be moved from one part of a material to another by cyclically magnetizing and demagnetizing adjacent regions of the material so that as one part gives up its "latent" stored heat during magnetization, another part is cooled by demagnetization and can absorb this heat. This acts as a solid state heat pump. There is a possibility that heat could be moved from one part of Newman type coil to another by a similar process. This is definitely needs to be investigated. If ADIABATIC DEMAGNETIZATION COOLING explains the cooling effect observed by Dragone and J. Naudin in the large coils they used, then there should be parts of the coil that are hotter than ambient and other parts that are cooler. If so, which way would we expect the heat to move ? Why ? All parts of the coil experience a cyclical magnetization and demagnetization, with some parts experiencing greater variations than others. But unlike the aforementioned solid state heat pumps, there is no sequencing of magnetization and demagnetization in adjacent regions apparent to me. So does the heat move from one part of the coil to another, or is it absorbed by the coil ? Unless the heat is moved from one place to another, it must be converted to some other form of energy such as electricity. If the entire coil cools below the ambient temperature, then there is still a violation of the 2nd Law (on a macroscopic scale, not microscopic). One way to test this might be to put the entire coil in a very well insulated box and search for temperature differences in the coil itself (delta T). However, if the entire coil cools below ambient then there is still an anomaly. This cooling effect is still not solved to my satisfaction. Like J.C. Maxwell and P.W. Bridgman, I still think it may be possible to order microscopic fluctuation energy into coherent macroscopic energy such as electricity. There needs to be better experiments done to settle this. I for one, am not ready to dismiss Joseph Newman's motors and Leon Dragone's "electroentropic" device as just weird refrigerators. Any other ideas or comments on this ? Tim Vaughan ( tv@juno.com) ----------------------- Quoted message follows: Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:40:27 -0400 From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Re: Re : Re: A COOLING effect has been observed. Message-Id: <199807151743.NAA00076@surfergirl.spacey.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lets not get carried away with ourselves.... I believe that I can help to clarify one of the current 'mysteries' that everyone is getting so worked up over. The cooling effect in Newmanesque dynamos, and in solid state high frequency zeroue devices is neither unusual nor does it require that 'reverse entropy' be invoked to explain it. It is not evidence of overunity performance, nor does it provide support for the theory of vacuum energy. The aether/vacuum/virtual particle flux/quantum state/dirac sea is not involved in this cooling process in any way, whatsoever. The cooling effect IS real, it most definately does occur, and it should surprise no one. In fact, we should find it more unusual if there were NOT a persistent refrigeration effect taking place in these devices. It is a phenomenon known as 'adiabatic paramagnetic demagnetization', and has been recognized for many years to occur when strong magentic fields are rapidly and repeatedly removed from certain conductive materials. It is known to be approximately as efficient as traditional mechanical refrigeration, when you take all of the system costs into account, but it is very energy intensive. Pulsed magnetic fields tend to dampen out the random molecular motion, thereby essentially eliminating heat; the heat doesn't go anywhere, it just stops. The process is not unlike nuclear magentic resonance used in medical Magnetic Resonance Imaging ("MRI") scans, where the magnetic moment of all of the atoms are suddenly aligned for a single instant by a strong outside magetic field; in APD refrigeration, the alignment is made to occur again and again, and this slowly overcomes the random molecular vibration that is heat. Its like putting your hand on a bell that has just been struck, and damping out the sound. Many industrial and scientific products are already on the market using adiabatic paramagnetic demagnetization to produce extremely cold temperatures. All of the record cold temperatures achieved in the last 20 years were obtained by this method, and nothing approaching absolute zero has ever been produced by any other means. This is also the only way that helium can be liquified. Laboratories around the world have deep cryo refrigeration units based on the technology, and they are now available off-the-shelf out of catalogues. In addition, the technology is being applied to the problem of cooling electronics enclosures where dense circuit boards radiate too much heat for simple air circulation via muffin fans to control. There is at least one IC out now which is a complete, compact, APD refrigerator on a single chip, sold under the trade name "Frigi-Chip"; you build it onto your printed circuit board along with the other discrete components, and it simply eats up the heat that the others throw off. Its pretty neat when you think about it....but it doesn't violate the superstitions of thermodynamics because it does require energy to eliminate the heat. Tim ( tv@juno.com ) _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 23 03:09:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA03321; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 03:08:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 03:08:29 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36082A07.559@sunherald.infi.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:07:20 -1000 To: freenrg list From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: JL Naudin's ZPF motor and the Bifield-Brown effect Resent-Message-ID: <"64EmS2.0.kp.TYC2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6624 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle - > I doubt very much that stray electrostatic effects > can cause a device to point in the same direction at > two locations 50kM apart. The of that happening are > exceedingly low. Magnetism can play a part too. > What do you suggest? Vacuum: not good enough. > Metal shield: not good enough... Good question. How about huge vacuum chamber (industrial metalizing chamber might be big enough) with the gizmo centered within it? As to orienting itself as above, at least a good magnetically shileded environment is not hard to get. That could be verified easily. If NASA is interested in it, maybe they can fly a test device in space. Seriously, it wouldn't be a costly device. Kick it out of the carge bay and see if it can self propel while some distance away from the shuttle. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 23 04:47:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA25710; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 04:45:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 04:45:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:46:47 +0200 (ITADST) Message-Id: <199809231146.NAA25337@korovev.stm.it> X-Sender: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: sepp@lastrega.com (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon Resent-Message-ID: <"X0nW6.0.VH6.azD2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6625 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stuart Rae wrote: (>> >> Would it not be possible that a planet or larger rotating stellar body >> tends to form a hollow shell, with a small centerpoint and a rather distant >> shell, where a neutral gravity spherical "shell" would form between the >> two? >>) > >Similarly described by John Keely, and referred to as a "Neutral Centre" ? > >And by others as a "Laya" centre ? > >SR > >-- Don't know about Keely or the Laya, but I have some books that report of the earth being thus conformed, and by extension, other planets and even the sun should be as well. Ref: "The Hollow Earth", Raymond Bernard, Citadel Press/Carol Publishing Group and "Moongate", William L. Brian II, Future Science Research Publishing Co. Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com Check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 23 04:47:22 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA25827; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 04:45:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 04:45:48 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:46:53 +0200 (ITADST) Message-Id: <199809231146.NAA25352@korovev.stm.it> X-Sender: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: sepp@lastrega.com (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon Resent-Message-ID: <"EzDbE1.0.8J6.hzD2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6626 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > >Gravitational fields expand outwards from their source and diminish as they >expand by the inverse square law. NASA of course uses this to put >satellites in orbit. > >The gravitational pull from the Earth at 875 miles is actually .64 that of >Earth at its surface or 20.68 ft per second squared. > >As the gravitational pull of the moon and the Earth expand outwards from >their source, and diminishing as the surface of an expanding sphere, they >reach a point of neutrality or equality. That point according to >documentation is in the range of 43,495 to 38,900 miles from the moon >depending on the distance at that moment between the Earth and the moon. > >Lee > > Yes, that is quite the conventional way of looking at it. But the question here was not gravitational equality between two different bodies (earth and moon) but inside the mass of a body itself. There is gravitational attraction of the outer shell, the crust, and there is gravitational attraction of the center point. Some actually contest the prevailing theory of the earth (or other planetary bodies) having a molten iron interior and say that it is quite differently conformed. The description is, that there is a center point, so compressed that it actually emits light, and that there is a hollow outer shell of a thickness of 'only' some hundreds of miles, which has it's own center of gravity and thus has an atmosphere adhering to it from both outside and inside. Between the outer shell and the central point there would be a zone of gravitational neutrality somewhere. My idea was that if space probes are seen to slow down after they go beyond a certain distance from the sun, possibly the solar system as a whole might have a similar configuration, having a zone of orbit that exhibits a gravitational anomaly, in that it is a gravitational "shell" (even if a very weak one) of it's own, which would then tend to slow a space probe, once it flies past that zone. Just speculation of course. We will for sure be figuring on this for years to come. - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com Check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 23 05:00:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA31641; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 04:59:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 04:59:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199809231201.JAA25772@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marcelo Puhl" Organization: Computec Ltda To: tv@juno.com Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:59:56 -3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Cooling Effect Reply-to: mark@plug-in.com.br CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19980922.205135.3590.1.tv@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"AbRDD1.0.Hk7.eAE2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6627 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > >That anomalous effect was noted also by Osamu Ide on his paper : > >"Increased voltage phenomenon in a resonance circuit of unconventional > >magnetic configuration" from 1995. > > Where can I find this paper ? http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/paper-ide.html > Was that "anomalous effect", the cooling effect ? No, no, he just got more energy with repel-repel magnets in his motor. I guess the temperature wasn't tested at that time. > >Leon didn't make any relation between the coil's size or wire gauge > >and the cooling effect ? What he used in the core ? > > Fine wire seemed to work better. > Sometimes no core at all. Sometimes a parmanent magnet core. He didn't mention any coil size ? Number of turns ? > Best Wishes, > > Tim > > ( tv@juno.com ) > --- Marcelo Puhl mark@plug-in.com.br From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 23 11:35:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA30109; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:32:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:32:48 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:38:40 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Freengr List) From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Status of INE 1998 Symposium Proceedings Resent-Message-ID: <"jfY3H3.0.DM7.FxJ2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6628 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:16:02 -0700 From: Hal Fox Organization: Trenergy Cc: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) We have really been busy getting moved and getting our new laboratory area constructed. Our new phone number is (801) 466-8680 and our new FAX number is (801) 466-8668. Our new street mailing address is: 3084 East 3300 South Salt Lake City, Utah 84109 and, the Post Office address as listed in the NEN still works. The contents of the proceedings of the August INE Symposium are available on the INE website, at http://www.padrak.com/ine/INEPAPERS98.html The cost of the proceedings (vol 3, no 2, Journal of New Energy) is $45. You may send bills through the mail. We have had good fortune in receiving all such funds transmitted to us from international locations. You may want to have the letter registered. If so, please use our new 3084 East 3300 South address as above. I hope that next year in August you will be able to attend our New Energy Symposium here in Salt Lake City, Utah. Best regards, Hal Fox, Editor, Journal of New Energy From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 23 13:06:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02412; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:01:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:01:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 02:55:44 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA02339 Resent-Message-ID: <"dkOlZ.0.Zb.nEL2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6629 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: After Study, Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery IS IT A MYSTERY OR IS IT JUST TIRED ELECTROMAGNETIC EMISSIONS? Lee. By MALCOLM W. BROWNE For 19 years space scientists, astronomers and physicists have been scratching their heads for an explanation of a mysterious force that seems to be pulling spacecraft in the direction of the Sun. A team of investigators has now announced that after examining and ruling out most of the possibilities they could think of, the mystery remains. This means, they said in a report accepted for publication in the journal Physical Review Letters, there is a slight possibility that some hitherto unknown phenomenon might be at work: "new physics," as physicists call such mysteries. A much more likely possibility, they acknowledged, is that some error in calculation or observation is responsible for the anomaly. But hope for something more significant springs eternal. On the rare occasions when experiments or observations have revealed genuinely new physics, discoverers have achieved renown and even Nobel Prizes. Heading the group of six scientists who studied the anomalous attraction mystery was Dr. John Anderson, an astronomer at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. Anderson said in an interview Wednesday that he had noticed the peculiar effect in 1980 while analyzing the trajectories of two outward bound and very distant spacecraft, Pioneer 10 and Pioneer 11. These trailblazing solar system explorers, launched in 1972 and 1973, are now at the very edge of the solar system some 68 times as far from the Sun as the distance between the Earth and the Sun. (Earth is some 93 million miles from the Sun.) Besides the two Pioneer spacecraft, two later probes -- Galileo, launched toward Jupiter in 1989, and Ulysses, launched into polar orbit around the Sun in 1990 -- have furnished radio data for the investigation. The trajectories of all four spacecraft have revealed evidence of a weak force that slightly perturbs their directions and velocities. The force was discovered by adding up the effects of all other known forces acting on the spacecraft and finding that something unexplained was left over. Anderson's investigation, later joined by Dr. Michael Martin Nieto, a theorist at Los Alamos National Laboratory, and scientists of Aerospace Corp. in El Segundo, Calif., and Astrodynamic Sciences Co. in Los Angeles, relied primarily on radio signals transmitted between the spacecraft and ground stations around the world. Their calculations, made using two independent methods and using two different types of radio data, took into account possible errors in the software and hardware used in computer analyses; the gravity exerted by the Sun, its planets and the Milky Way galaxy, as well as possible gas leaks from the space crafts' maneuvering rockets; errors in planetary motion tables; errors in accepted values of the Earth's orientation and motion; possible forces created by radiation from onboard power reactors; a possible drift in atomic timing clocks used to determine a craft's distance from the Earth, and the possible gravitational influence of hypothetical dark matter, the theorized particles thought to constitute a significant fraction of the universe's mass. But even reckoning these and other effects into their calculations, the scientists were unable to explain the force that is apparently slowing the outward progress of the spacecraft speeding away from or around the Sun. In contrast with the force of gravity, the strength of the mystery force does not decline proportionally to the inverse square of a space craft's distance from the Sun but at a constant (linear) rate; this argues against the force being a gravitational effect of the Sun. Anderson and his colleagues said that the Pluto Express, a mission to the planet Pluto planned for early in the 21st century, might shed further light. Among scientists who expressed great interest in the report was Dr. Robert Vessot, a professor of physics at Harvard University. "This is certainly a fascinating paper that has to be taken seriously," Vessot said, "although as the authors say, the chances that it involves new physics are small. But even if the explanation is simply something that has been overlooked, finding what that something is will be interesting in itself." "Clearly," Anderson's group concluded, "more analysis, observation, and theoretical work are called for." Thursday, September 17, 1998 Copyright 1998 The New York Times ---------------------- Write - subscribe - or - unsubscribe - in the message body (leave subject line blank), mail to: Dissent-Request@userhome.com ----------------------  Unique news? "What's Up Doc?" at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/5518/                    From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 23 13:09:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02485; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:02:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:02:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980923031849.00ff1dc0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 03:18:49 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon In-Reply-To: <199809231146.NAA25337@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-kobC3.0.lc.xEL2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6630 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:46 PM 9/23/98 +0200, you wrote: >Stuart Rae wrote: > >(>> >>> Would it not be possible that a planet or larger rotating stellar body >>> tends to form a hollow shell, with a small centerpoint and a rather distant >>> shell, where a neutral gravity spherical "shell" would form between the >>> two? >>>) >> >>Similarly described by John Keely, and referred to as a "Neutral Centre" ? >> >>And by others as a "Laya" centre ? >> >>SR >> >>-- >Don't know about Keely or the Laya, but I have some books that report of >the earth being thus conformed, and by extension, other planets and even >the sun should be as well. > >Ref: > >"The Hollow Earth", Raymond Bernard, Citadel Press/Carol Publishing Group and >"Moongate", William L. Brian II, Future Science Research Publishing Co. > >Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY >new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com >Check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new >energy at >http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger Don't think the Earth is hollow, but I'll wager there is at least a miniature "sun" something like a plasma field in the middle of the Earth. William Brian's book is good at the start, but towards the end he goes over the edge IMO. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 23 13:09:20 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02506; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:02:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:02:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980923032938.00ff4100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 03:29:38 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Three possibly related phenomenon In-Reply-To: <199809231146.NAA25352@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"y3QCl3.0.3d.zEL2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6631 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:46 PM 9/23/98 +0200, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: >> >>Gravitational fields expand outwards from their source and diminish as they >>expand by the inverse square law. NASA of course uses this to put >>satellites in orbit. >> >>The gravitational pull from the Earth at 875 miles is actually .64 that of >>Earth at its surface or 20.68 ft per second squared. >> >>As the gravitational pull of the moon and the Earth expand outwards from >>their source, and diminishing as the surface of an expanding sphere, they >>reach a point of neutrality or equality. That point according to >>documentation is in the range of 43,495 to 38,900 miles from the moon >>depending on the distance at that moment between the Earth and the moon. >> >>Lee >> >> >Yes, that is quite the conventional way of looking at it. But the question >here was not gravitational equality between two different bodies (earth and >moon) but inside the mass of a body itself. > >There is gravitational attraction of the outer shell, the crust, and there >is gravitational attraction of the center point. Some actually contest the >prevailing theory of the earth (or other planetary bodies) having a molten >iron interior and say that it is quite differently conformed. I too contest that the Earth has a molten Iron interior, but I don't think it is hollow either. I don't think there is a gravitational zone of neutrality either. Wm Brian was working from the hypothesis of Rene and Kaysing, that gravity is a property of mass. And given that belief, Rene and Kaysing came up with the notion that we didn't go to the moon and Brian came up with his own hypotheses as below. If however I am correct, that gravity is a current force produced by a physical process, then as the Earth (or any other body) cools the gravitational force diminishes. And if there is atmosphere it drifts off into space, and if there is water it "boils off and crystalizes". The centrifugal force of the object concerned would abet the loss of that crystalized water into space, leaving only the water at the poles (moon and Mars). The water thus crystalized would form a massive cloud, and being attracted by a much larger body with a greater gravitational field (like Earth) would slowly over thousands or even hundreds of thousands of years, drift to Earth, in the process blocking out the sun and thus causing an ice age or two. When the water finally reached Earth it would of course cause a massive flood (Geologists already admit there is too much water on Earth). The influx of water would further dampen the gravitational field, and the reduced gravity combined with the influx of water would surely wipe out life forms like Dinosaurs, burying many of them in mud which is more or less the condition in which the present finds of their bones are located. Creatures attenuated to a greater gravitational field can not exist in a weakened field, they would overbound prey, there would be a shortage of food for herbivores after such a flood and most of the offspring would not survive (we discovered that in space with rats). Such floods would then account for the Flood mentioned at the end of the Epic of Gilgamesh and borrowed by the Hebrews as the Flood of Noah. If Brian had this conceptual basis he might not have come up with the hollow earth theory. Lee > >The description is, that there is a center point, so compressed that it >actually emits light, and that there is a hollow outer shell of a thickness >of 'only' some hundreds of miles, which has it's own center of gravity and >thus has an atmosphere adhering to it from both outside and inside. > >Between the outer shell and the central point there would be a zone of >gravitational neutrality somewhere. > >My idea was that if space probes are seen to slow down after they go beyond >a certain distance from the sun, possibly the solar system as a whole might >have a similar configuration, having a zone of orbit that exhibits a >gravitational anomaly, in that it is a gravitational "shell" (even if a >very weak one) of it's own, which would then tend to slow a space probe, >once it flies past that zone. > >Just speculation of course. We will for sure be figuring on this for years >to come. > >- Josef > >Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY >new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com >Check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new >energy at >http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 23 14:50:11 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA18893; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:44:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:44:58 -0700 Message-ID: <006701bde73b$b6b45440$0b5cadd1@default> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: AN INTERESTING LETTER... Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:47:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"upTA53.0.zc4.PlM2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6632 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >A number of technical papers have been published in respected journals >stating that, theoretically, zero point energy can be extracted from >electromagnetic fluctuations of the vacuum. Additionally, eight patents >have been issued on zero point energy, including one issued to the Air >Force Rocket Propulsion Laboratory. I can't find any of them online. What other terms might have been used? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 23 16:30:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA32704; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 16:27:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 16:27:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:28:26 -0400 From: uban@world.std.com (Jim Uban) Message-Id: <199809232328.AA26283@world.std.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Back to Basics/TVQ Lives Resent-Message-ID: <"95YDm1.0.p-7.DFO2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6633 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I only just now caught up on my freenrg backlog, only to find this unfortunate thread. The fact is, that Bob Shannon has been one of the most forthright and helpful folks I've ever interacted with from the whole 'alternative science scene'. And, he's published buildable projects for anyone to tinker with, to explore this whole realm. What more could one ask? Also, he contributes thoughtful comments and criticism to many threads. Not nasty criticism, but reality-grounded criticism. The right kind. Jim U. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 23 17:45:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA01544; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:42:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:42:23 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:43:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809240043.RAB04410@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: AN INTERESTING LETTER... Resent-Message-ID: <"0w3hE.0.yN.kLP2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6634 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:47 PM 9/23/98 -0400, you wrote: >>A number of technical papers have been published in respected journals >>stating that, theoretically, zero point energy can be extracted from >>electromagnetic fluctuations of the vacuum. Additionally, eight patents >>have been issued on zero point energy, including one issued to the Air >>Force Rocket Propulsion Laboratory. > >I can't find any of them online. What other terms might have been used? > Here are 3. I don't know if any are included in the 8. They are about electrostatic generators.. US patent 4,897,592, Hyde, 4,127,804, variable polarization capacitor, 3,971,938 variable capacitors. The one I can't find is about a resonant dielectric sphere(s) to tap the ZPE. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 23 19:52:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA23383; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:49:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:49:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3609CF09.6E2F@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:48:09 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: AN INTERESTING LETTER... References: <199809240043.RAB04410@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vKwSE1.0.Hj5.BDR2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6635 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: dave dameron wrote: > The one I can't find is about a resonant dielectric sphere(s) to tap the ZPE. > -Dave It's author is Franklin(?) Mead, I believe. I will search around for it. Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 23 22:33:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA22990; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:31:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:31:42 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980923202724.00d0e7b0@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:27:24 -0700 To: Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, alex@frolov.spb.ru, ahannan@MIT.EDU, deadnuts@deadnuts.com, lupem@world.std.com, peg@wintergreen.com, bso@acm.org, claudeg@world.std.com, DaleSVP@ipa.net, dtassen@c-zone.net, sweetser@world.std.com, clsmith@darwin.bu.edu, ccantor@sequenom.com, 76753.3551@CompuServe.COM, eben@ergeng.com, ehill@world.std.com, leep@world.std.com, ejp@world.std.com, wordpros@inforamp.net, moy@ziplink.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, jkokor@alum.mit.edu, Bensinger@bdhepa.hep.brandeis.edu, Jim Hile , jim@msri.org, discjt@servtech.com, John Ranta , jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk, joshprokop@worldnet.att.net, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, atc@wit.edu, ohl@world.std.com, pgm@world.std.com, rsmith@itiip.com, raddison@world.std.com, 71022.3001@CompuServe.COM, 73577.123@CompuServe.COM, thiahadge@aol.com, tcapizzi@world.std.com, tom.duff@poweroasis.com, TAFAUL@aol.com, Leonard Dvorson From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: The Brick Wall - My first poem Resent-Message-ID: <"FwRJS2.0.7d5.-aT2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6636 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Imagine a big brick wall Are there a few bricks missing Some will look at the empty slots and say That's not a brick wall Others will look at the rest of the bricks and say That is a brick wall Still others will turn up the light and say Those bricks really aren't missing Dennis C. Lee - I don't think that I have been filled with this much enthusiasm and hope - since I was about 10 years old. Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 23 22:53:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA27045; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:50:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:50:34 -0700 Message-ID: <19980924055127.18762.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [161.142.213.15] From: "chen ce" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Brick Wall - My first poem Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:51:26 PDT Resent-Message-ID: <"MdwEY3.0.Uc6.fsT2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6637 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I don't think I understand the poem...can u please explain to me? Thank You Yours sincerely, Chen _______________________________________ >Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:27:24 -0700 >To: Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, alex@frolov.spb.ru, ahannan@MIT.EDU, > deadnuts@deadnuts.com, lupem@world.std.com, peg@wintergreen.com, > bso@acm.org, claudeg@world.std.com, DaleSVP@ipa.net, > dtassen@c-zone.net, sweetser@world.std.com, clsmith@darwin.bu.edu, > ccantor@sequenom.com, 76753.3551@CompuServe.COM, eben@ergeng.com, > ehill@world.std.com, leep@world.std.com, ejp@world.std.com, > wordpros@inforamp.net, moy@ziplink.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, > gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, > hic@world.std.com, jkokor@alum.mit.edu, > Bensinger@bdhepa.hep.brandeis.edu, Jim Hile , > jim@msri.org, discjt@servtech.com, John Ranta , > jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk, joshprokop@worldnet.att.net, > KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, atc@wit.edu, ohl@world.std.com, > pgm@world.std.com, rsmith@itiip.com, raddison@world.std.com, > 71022.3001@CompuServe.COM, 73577.123@CompuServe.COM, thiahadge@aol.com, > tcapizzi@world.std.com, tom.duff@poweroasis.com, TAFAUL@aol.com, > Leonard Dvorson >From: "Dennis C. Lee" >Subject: The Brick Wall - My first poem >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >Imagine a big brick wall >Are there a few bricks missing >Some will look at the empty slots and say >That's not a brick wall >Others will look at the rest of the bricks and say >That is a brick wall >Still others will turn up the light and say >Those bricks really aren't missing > >Dennis C. Lee > >- I don't think that I have been filled with this much enthusiasm and hope >- since I was about 10 years old. >Tall Ships >http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 24 00:10:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA11815; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 00:08:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 00:08:54 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 03:09:07 -0400 From: Ralph E Griffin Subject: re: cooling effect ideas Sender: Ralph E Griffin To: Free Energy List Message-ID: <199809240309_MC2-5A5C-ED6B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA11794 Resent-Message-ID: <"waBpg2.0.Su2.60V2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6638 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tim Vaughan said: >Thank You for reposting the attached message from David L. Wenbert. >First I would like to quote a definition of 'adiabatic paramagnetic >demagnetization'. >Please note that ADIABATIC DEMAGNETIZATION COOLING is a cyclical >process that works because some materials like the paramagnetic salts >(certain Gadolinium compounds are particularly effective ) absorb heat >when they are removed from a strong magnetic field or the magnetic field >is otherwise removed. When these same materials are again placed in >a magnetic field they give up heat. So like other refrigeration >processes, it is a cyclical process. HEAT IS MOVED from one place to >another. > >ADIABATIC DEMAGNETIZATION COOLING does not "simply eat up the heat". > >Energy cannot simply disappear, it must be transported or transformed ! > >Device that use ADIABATIC DEMAGNETIZATION COOLING to move heat do not >necessarily have moving parts. Heat can be moved from one part of >a material to another by cyclically magnetizing and demagnetizing >adjacent regions of the material so that as one part gives up its >"latent" stored heat during magnetization, another part is cooled by >demagnetization and can absorb this heat. This acts as a solid state >heat pump. > >There is a possibility that heat could be moved from one part of Newman >type coil to another by a similar process. This is definitely needs to >be investigated. > >If ADIABATIC DEMAGNETIZATION COOLING explains the cooling effect >observed by Dragone and J. Naudin in the large coils they used, then >there should be parts of the coil that are hotter than ambient and other >parts that are cooler. > >If so, which way would we expect the heat to move ? Why ? > >All parts of the coil experience a cyclical magnetization and >demagnetization, with some parts experiencing greater variations than >others. But unlike the aforementioned solid state heat pumps, there is >no sequencing of magnetization and demagnetization in adjacent regions >apparent to me. > >So does the heat move from one part of the coil to another, or is >it absorbed by the coil ? Unless the heat is moved from one place to >another, it must be converted to some other form of energy such as >electricity. With so many turns of such a small wire, it seems to me that the performance of the coil may be significantly affected by inter-winding capacitance, even at a low frequency. The inter-winding capacitance would allow different parts of the coils to conducts different amounts of current at the same time. This would allow some degree of sequencing of the magnetic feild within the coil. It could be acting like a distributed network of many L's and C's. Now drive it with a spark gap and watch the wigle-wagle bee-bop . From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 24 02:30:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA31725; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 02:26:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 02:26:09 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 03:27:41 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, alex@frolov.spb.ru, ahannan@MIT.EDU, deadnuts@deadnuts.com, lupem@world.std.com, peg@wintergreen.com, bso@acm.org, claudeg@world.std.com, DaleSVP@ipa.net, dtassen@c-zone.net, sweetser@world.std.com, clsmith@darwin.bu.edu, ccantor@sequenom.com, 76753.3551@CompuServe.COM, eben@ergeng.com, ehill@world.std.com, leep@world.std.com, ejp@world.std.com, wordpros@inforamp.net, moy@ziplink.net, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, jkokor@alum.mit.edu, Bensinger@bdhepa.hep.brandeis.edu, Jim Hile , jim@msri.org, discjt@servtech.com, John Ranta , jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk, joshprokop@worldnet.att.net, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, atc@wit.edu, ohl@world.std.com, pgm@world.std.com, rsmith@itiip.com, raddison@world.std.com, 71022.3001@CompuServe.COM, 73577.123@CompuServe.COM, thiahadge@aol.com, tcapizzi@world.std.com, tom.duff@poweroasis.com, TAFAUL@aol.com, Leonard Dvorson Subject: Re: The Brick Wall - My first poem In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980923202724.00d0e7b0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gqgax.0.dl7.n0X2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6639 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Dennis C. Lee wrote: Imagine a big brick wall Are there a few bricks missing Some will look at the empty slots and say That's not a brick wall Others will look at the rest of the bricks and say That is a brick wall Still others will turn up the light and say Those bricks really aren't missing Dennis C. Lee - I don't think that I have been filled with this much enthusiasm and hope - since I was about 10 years old. Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html ---------------------- Hi Dennis, I liked you poem, AND still most others will return missing bricks to their sloted position. It is a Wall after all :) -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 24 06:28:32 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA24472; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:26:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:26:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:25:46 -0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.50 b48 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"TRr8i3.0.I-5.RYa2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6640 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com>, on 09/23/98 at 02:55 AM, Lee Markland said: > In contrast with the force of gravity, the strength of the mystery >force does not decline proportionally to the inverse square of a space >craft's distance from the Sun but at a constant (linear) rate; this >argues against the force being a gravitational effect of the Sun. Hmmm, smells like aether to me. (A slight drag was a requirement for the aether to exist. Since they could detect no drag, the aeither didn't exist) -Charlie- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 24 09:49:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA14760; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:44:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:44:08 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809241645.JAA05539@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: AN INTERESTING LETTER... ZPE antenna Resent-Message-ID: <"uEc0p.0.Mc3.MRd2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6641 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Kyle and all, >At 05:47 PM 9/23/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>A number of technical papers have been published in respected journals >>>stating that, theoretically, zero point energy can be extracted from >>>electromagnetic fluctuations of the vacuum. Additionally, eight patents >>>have been issued on zero point energy, including one issued to the Air >>>Force Rocket Propulsion Laboratory. >> >>I can't find any of them online. What other terms might have been used? The patent for the ZPE antenna with resonant dielectric spheres is: 5590031 by Franklin Mead, Jr. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 24 11:00:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA15292; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:55:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:55:25 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@shell14.ba.best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:00:10 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Poem: "Our choicest dreams have fallen through," Cc: atech@ix.netcom.com Resent-Message-ID: <"0sCOv2.0.lk3.CUe2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6642 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Our choicest dreams have fallen through, Our airiest castles have tumbeled over, Because of lines we neatly drew, and Later neatly stumbeled over. Pete Hein, Poet. Let's see a device that "works" be tested with a high frequencey oscilloscope that stores v(t), i(t), and then calculates p(t) = v(t) * i(t), for each hf data point, and THEN calculates the average power per cycle. Until then; "all fall down". From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 24 13:08:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA32343 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:08:38 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:08:38 -0700 X-Envelope-From: tako@tako.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 24 13:08:22 1998 Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA32182; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:08:20 -0700 Received: from [193.237.60.203] (helo=tako) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.03 #1) id 0zMHhk-000465-00; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:09:33 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:04:52 +0100 Message-ID: <01BDE807.5B414060.tako@tako.demon.co.uk> From: Tayfun KOCAK To: "'Dennis C. Lee'" , Bill McMurtry Cc: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" , "KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net" , "vortex-L@eskimo.com" , "Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com" , "alex@frolov.spb.ru" , "ahannan@MIT.EDU" Cc: "deadnuts@deadnuts.com" , "lupem@world.std.com" , "peg@wintergreen.com" , "bso@acm.org" , "claudeg@world.std.com" , "DaleSVP@ipa.net" Cc: "dtassen@c-zone.net" , "sweetser@world.std.com" , "clsmith@darwin.bu.edu" , "ccantor@sequenom.com" , "76753.3551@compuserve.com" <76753.3551@compuserve.com>, "eben@ergeng.com" Cc: "ehill@world.std.com" , "leep@world.std.com" , "ejp@world.std.com" , "wordpros@inforamp.net" , "moy@ziplink.net" , "gjcheah@guybutler.com" Cc: "wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu" , "hic@world.std.com" , "jkokor@alum.mit.edu" , Jeane Manning , "72240.1256@compuserve.com" <72240.1256@compuserve.com>, "Bensinger@bdhepa.hep.brandeis.edu" Cc: Jim Hile , "jim@msri.org" , "discjt@servtech.com" , John Ranta , "jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk" , "joshprokop@worldnet.att.net" Cc: Leonard Dvorson , "atc@wit.edu" , "ohl@world.std.com" , "pgm@world.std.com" , "rsmith@itiip.com" , "raddison@world.std.com" Cc: "71022.3001@compuserve.com" <71022.3001@compuserve.com>, "73577.123@compuserve.com" <73577.123@compuserve.com>, "thiahadge@aol.com" , "tcapizzi@world.std.com" , "tom.duff@poweroasis.com" , "TAFAUL@aol.com" Subject: RE: Power source/Searl story Old-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:39:55 +0100 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 209 TEXT X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: As someone who personally know Prof. Searl it amazes me to hear so much rubbish about him and his work. If only 1000 of you gave as much as he has done then the world would be a different place to live for the better. Most people are totally unable to grasp the theory of the SEG technology which is based on the squares and does not have a bloody clue to their significance. He has given you the public this knowledge, the theory and the way he used to build the power generator, through his books. How many of you read the books? How many of you have the scientific background to understand what he is talking about? Most people want everything on a plate - and they still fail to see it when it is given to them! If he was a fraudster then how the hell does a University give him the title of Professor? Does any of you know the procedure for getting it? I have a few simple questions to ask. What right or justification do you people think you have in knowing what Prof. Searl is doing? What contribution have you made to humanity or the SEG? What is it to you? T. Kocak PS. If you are a supporter of Prof. Searl please excuse the tone of my e-mail. -----Original Message----- From: Dennis C. Lee [SMTP:atech@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 10:03 AM To: Bill McMurtry Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com; KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net; vortex-L@eskimo.com; Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com; alex@frolov.spb.ru; ahannan@MIT.EDU; deadnuts@deadnuts.com; lupem@world.std.com; peg@wintergreen.com; bso@acm.org; claudeg@world.std.com; DaleSVP@ipa.net; dtassen@c-zone.net; sweetser@world.std.com; clsmith@darwin.bu.edu; ccantor@sequenom.com; 76753.3551@compuserve.com; eben@ergeng.com; ehill@world.std.com; leep@world.std.com; ejp@world.std.com; wordpros@inforamp.net; moy@ziplink.net; gjcheah@guybutler.com; wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu; hic@world.std.com; jkokor@alum.mit.edu; Jeane Manning; 72240.1256@compuserve.com; Bensinger@bdhepa.hep.brandeis.edu; Jim Hile; jim@msri.org; discjt@servtech.com; John Ranta; jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk; joshprokop@worldnet.att.net; Leonard Dvorson; atc@wit.edu; ohl@world.std.com; pgm@world.std.com; rsmith@itiip.com; raddison@world.std.com; 71022.3001@compuserve.com; 73577.123@compuserve.com; thiahadge@aol.com; tcapizzi@world.std.com; tom.duff@poweroasis.com; TAFAUL@aol.com Subject: Re: Power source/Searl story At 10:09 PM 9/22/98 +1000, you wrote: >Hi Dennis, > >At 13:59 21/09/98 -0700, Dennis C. Lee wrote: >> >>Could these people have been threatened? If threats were made, and Searl's >>technology checked out, would you tell everyone who called asking about it? >>Now that Fergie's mother has died in a car crash, there may be reason to >>question the ethics of happenings in England. > >So, you think Searl has nobody to back his claims because EVERYONE has been >threatened? Spare me the conspiracy theories Dennis. Too easy and totally >irrelevant! So if Professor Searl is right, you believe that the people who are receiving great wealth from the way things are now will take faith that they will be able to maintain their status after implementing the new technology. They know that it will be for the good of society and will therefore work to build from scratch. They all have access to David Hudson's monatomics so time is no longer a concern. They will trust that hard work and fair play will get them where they were because that's how they did it before. They have faith that mankind has the maturity and ethics to handle the responsibility of this powerful technology because it is understood by all that working for the greater good is the best one can do and brings one the most satisfaction and everyone has developed the ability and desire to do this by instinct. Money is only a tool which the wealthy have used to do only positive things for society. It would not occur to them to use theats or worse to suppress this new technology because they know negative acts stick to their life force energy and they realise it would be of no use for the technical people will continue research regardless. You say threats are irrelevent because you yourself would not stop working on this technology because it's for the greater good. Your life really isn't worth living if you can't do this research so you will risk the repercussions of ignoring the threats and you will tell anyone who calls whatever they want to know. Oh ya, and everyone is developed enough to be totally honest about everything, right? >>He has probably tried that approach. Searl is an example of society >>suppressing its' inventors for doing too good a job. Searl's behavior is the >>result of his having to do too much of the R&D without mainstream support >>for too long a time. We should all shed tears for what has happened to >>Professor Searl (we're probably next). :( > >Searl's behavior could be the result of a lot of things . Once again, >where is the evidence for all this R&D effort? Anything? While Searl >continues to hide behind a veil of smoke and mirrors, he deserves ZERO >respect, let alone tears. What makes you think that he is hiding behind a veil of smoke and mirrors? How can you be sure that alternative motives fitting the same facts are impossible? How much time have you researched Professor Searl's life and achievements? Surely you wouldn't consider making such statements without being absolutely sure. Giving the benefit of the doubt versus absolute condemnation calls for different levels of confidence in the facts in my opinion. >>Next time, offer Professor Searl 1500 pounds for a look at the magnet >>(market rate admission price for state of the art previews in the >>semiconductor industry I believe). > >What evidence do you have that Searl actually ever created a single working >device? Have you spent 1500 pounds for a private preview of Searl's proof >of principal? If not, then maybe it's not just 1500 pounds, maybe it's a >trillion pounds so that nobody can afford it and he gets to keep playing >'the game' - Come on! Professor Searl told me that 1500 pounds is the going rate. Then again, I honestly respect the man for his work. I keep in mind the hardship he's been through and will give him all the slack he needs and I will always maintain proper respect no matter what. BTW, if I came to you with the same attitude as you have for Professor Searl, how much would you charge me for your life's work? >>God willing and humanity being worthy, >>Professor Searl will find his properly respected place as being at least an >>equal to Tesla's level of technical genius. :) > >You know, there's a huge difference between Tesla's and Searl's >achievements - Tesla demonstrated over and over the creation of practical >devices. Searl just talks about it, over and over. (somewhat inconsistantly >over time, I might add). Should he actually produce some physical >demonstration to back up the hot air, then perhaps I could start comparing >him to other great achievers. Until then... what do you think? Do you remember how Tesla ended up? After he gave us AC power, he suddenly had completely wrong and delusional ideas and deserved to be deprived of R&D funding for the last 40 or so years of his life right? J.P. Morgan shut Tesla out because of the delusion that Wardencliffe would self resonate and give power to anyone in the world who could wind a coil. Morgan was sure this was impossible and his investments in conventional powerplants and the electrical powerline grid had nothing to do with stopping Tesla. Morgan was an honest and forthright person who only worked for the good of society right? >As for us unworthy, unwashed, ungrateful peoples of the world - give me a >break, heard it all before... utter crap! Professor of what? Ever asked >Searl how he obtained his professorship and from where and for what (nicely >of course)? You may be one of the faithful blind followers - not me baby, >it takes more than an endlessly meandering hot air ballon ride to turn me >on these days . I invite you to substantiate your support for Searl with >something more than idol worship. I assume it takes more than a tall story >to gain your support? Look up Herman Weyl's 'Theory of Groups & Quantum Mechanics'. Some of Professor Searl's Magic Squares are based on Klein 4 group math. In my opinion, Professor Searl is lightyears ahead of a personal acquaintance who spent at least 10 years working on the same math trying to do much the same thing. When I showed that aquaintance Professor Searl's Magic Squares, he immediately recognized the matrix structure. He then grew somewhat resentful and was quite negative toward Professor Searl's work. I think it has something to do with trying your best and seeing someone on a level you think you can never reach by your own efforts. I personally see such situations as opportunities to learn not reasons to get upset. To see such ability inspires me. >With evidence, belief becomes irrelevant. > >Regards, Bill. > >P.S. Just thought I'd mention it before you propose it: I've not been paid >off nor am I a government agent, CIA, alien cross-breed, God knows what >else, Searl hater. > >I just can not see the sense in allowing the unsubstantiated claims of >Searl (or anybody else for that matter) to continue waisting productive >lives in a mindless, fruitless search while real progress will be made >elsewhere. I think it should be said. How much money and effort and time >has been invested already by the 'unworthy' people of the world FOLLOWING >Searl's claims, with nothing to show for it? EVIDENCE BRINGS RESPECT. IMO, >Searl should prove his case or... but he can't, can he. You know Dennis, >this about sums it up - Searl will be remembered as one of the greatest >frauds of the latter half of the 20th Century. IMCO, of course. Wanna bet? 1500 pounds each for Professor Searl's preview tickets. Loser pays all expenses. If more than a few want to come along, I'll just accept 1500 pounds each. Professor Searl would then get the other 1500 pounds each. That's 1500 British pounds sterling of course. Be forewarned that I am capable of defending myself and Professor Searl, so there will be no funny business whatsoever. If necessary, my life says so. Dennis Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 24 16:20:43 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA09539; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:18:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:18:48 -0700 Message-ID: <360AD131.F0FA24@harti.com> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:09:37 +0200 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: "Stefan Hartmann" Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l Subject: New MPEG movie uploaded of gravitational converter ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Lq11E3.0.vK2.NDj2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6643 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I have uploaded a new MPEG movie at: http://www.overunity.com/movies/gb11.mpg which shows the gravitational converter is in its initial position. Then the inventor lets it go. You see, how the water cylinder goes down and also the swimmer body inside. The water goes up and also the akkomodators with its additional weights. Due to the "non setup right" condition in this moment, there is too much friction and the swimmer body goes not down completely inside the water cylinder... In a few days the unit will hopefully be fixed again and can show the selfrunner effect again ! Here is the theory behind it: http://www.overunity.com/gb Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 24 20:34:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA28889; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:30:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:30:42 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980924182947.00d015ac@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:29:47 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: The Brick Wall - My first poem Cc: Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com, ahannan@MIT.EDU, deadnuts@deadnuts.com, lupem@world.std.com, peg@wintergreen.com, bso@acm.org, claudeg@world.std.com, clsmith@darwin.bu.edu, ccantor@sequenom.com, 76753.3551@CompuServe.COM, eben@ergeng.com, ehill@world.std.com, leep@world.std.com, ejp@world.std.com, wordpros@inforamp.net, moy@ziplink.net, gjcheah@guybutler.com, wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, hic@world.std.com, jkokor@alum.mit.edu, Bensinger@bdhepa.hep.brandeis.edu, Jim Hile , jim@msri.org, discjt@servtech.com, John Ranta , jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk, joshprokop@worldnet.att.net, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, Leonard Dvorson , atc@wit.edu, ohl@world.std.com, pgm@world.std.com, rsmith@itiip.com, raddison@world.std.com, 71022.3001@CompuServe.COM, 73577.123@CompuServe.COM, thiahadge@aol.com, tcapizzi@world.std.com, tom.duff@poweroasis.com, TAFAUL@aol.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"dSCFD2.0.C37.Yvm2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6644 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:51 PM 9/23/98 PDT, you wrote: >I don't think I understand the poem...can u please explain to me? >Thank You > >Yours sincerely, >Chen The Brick Wall - My First Poem v2 Imagine a big brick wall Are there a few bricks missing One will look at a slot and say That's not a brick wall One will look at a brick and say That is a brick wall One will turn up a light and say They really aren't missing Dennis C. Lee - September 23, 1998 1. The flame wars on Vortex-l these past few weeks was the inspiration to write it. 2. It could also be interpreted as team work. 3. To be right do you also have to look right? etc. I think that this is an example of objective art and it depends on ones level of development as to how many levels of interpretation you will find. Of course the day after I write the piece, I get the decision by the Board of Bar Overseers to keep a file closed. This is in spite of much research with references. The whole battle involves getting the paper work that was signed by the landlord 25 years ago. After paying off the 1% government loan, the landlord now wants to eventually disperse our art community by raising rent levels. All we want is to see original agreements. Might as well enjoy the process of conflict. It seems that this is what life is about at this time. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 24 22:27:19 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA01686; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:26:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:26:15 -0700 Message-ID: <360B29DC.5BA8@keelynet.com> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 00:27:56 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: PowerBall Pellets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WljDU3.0.EQ.tbo2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6645 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! This was shared yesterday by a friend, it deals with hydride pellets for the controlled release of hydrogen from water to use as fuel, check it out; http://www.powerball.net/inside/index.html -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 25 05:09:56 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA04883; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 05:08:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 05:08:08 -0700 Message-ID: <005001bde87d$6255fb40$4a11a098@data> From: "Edward Kauffmann" To: Subject: Re: Objective Art - When reasoning fails Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:09:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"vKeNQ3.0.DC1.dUu2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6646 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To All, Please let me know if this is really a Free Energy list or if it's a useless poem, triplicate message, 1mb attachment, anything-else-but list! If so, I am outa here. Thanks, Ed -----Original Message----- From: Dennis C. Lee To: Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com ; alex@frolov.spb.ru ; ahannan@MIT.EDU ; deadnuts@deadnuts.com ; lupem@world.std.com ; peg@wintergreen.com ; bso@acm.org ; claudeg@world.std.com ; DaleSVP@ipa.net ; dtassen@c-zone.net ; sweetser@world.std.com ; clsmith@darwin.bu.edu ; ccantor@sequenom.com ; 76753.3551@compuserve.com <76753.3551@compuserve.com>; eben@ergeng.com ; ehill@world.std.com ; leep@world.std.com ; ejp@world.std.com ; wordpros@inforamp.net ; moy@ziplink.net ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com ; gjcheah@guybutler.com ; wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu ; hic@world.std.com ; jkokor@alum.mit.edu ; Bensinger@bdhepa.hep.brandeis.edu ; Jim Hile ; jim@msri.org ; discjt@servtech.com ; John Ranta ; jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk ; joshprokop@worldnet.att.net ; KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net ; Leonard Dvorson ; atc@wit.edu ; ohl@world.std.com ; 71650.60@compuserve.com <71650.60@compuserve.com>; pgm@world.std.com ; rsmith@itiip.com ; RICHARDH@uucp-1.csn.net ; richard.quick@slug.org ; raddison@world.std.com ; 71022.3001@compuserve.com <71022.3001@compuserve.com>; 73577.123@compuserve.com <73577.123@compuserve.com>; tesla@pupman.com ; thiahadge@aol.com ; tcapizzi@world.std.com ; tom.duff@poweroasis.com ; TAFAUL@aol.com ; vortex-L@eskimo.com Date: Friday, September 25, 1998 4:40 AM Subject: Objective Art - When reasoning fails >I suggest that we start the 'Unified Field Art' art movement. The painting >was done shortly before the plasma experiment was performed. Both are shown >in ufa.jpg. Veredith cut the cone electrode for me out of her own initiative >and instinct. Incredibly, I measured the cone angle to be the same as what >is associated with the Great Pyramid, fifty one degrees as I recall. I later >tried to scale the electrode size up but this caused the spinning plasma >cones to collapse onto the electrodes. The plasma pattern was no longer >stable. Does accepting the help of an abstract artist for plasma physics >experiments increase the ability to produce tuned phenomenon on the first try? > >Below is a quote from P.D. Ouspensky's book. > > >Dennis > > > >26 In Search of the Miraculous > > "It is known," said G. "But it would be no advantage whatever for people to >know it. It would even be worse. Some would believe it, others would not >believe it, yet others would demand proofs. Afterwards they would begin to >break one another's heads. Everything ends this way with people." > > In Moscow, at the same time, we also bad several interesting talks about >art. These were connected with the story which was read on the first >evening that I saw G. > "At the moment it is not yet clear to you," G. once said, "that people >living on the earth can belong to very different levels, although in >appearance they look exactly the same. just as there arc very different >levels of men, so there are different levels of art. Only you do not >realize at present that the difference between these levels is far greater >than you might suppose. You take different things on one level, far too >near one another, and you think these different levels are accessible to you. > "I do not call art all that you call art, which is simply mechanical >reproduction, imitation of nature or other people, or simply fantasy, or an >attempt to be original. Real art is something quite different. Among works >of art, especially works of ancient art, you meet with many things you >cannot explain and which contain a certain something you do not feel in >modern works Of art. But as you do not realize what this difference is you >very soon forget it and continue to take everything as one kind of art. And >yet there is an enormous difference between your art and the art of which I >speak. In your art everything is subjective-the artist's perception of this >or that sensation; the forms in which he tries to express his sensations and >the perception of these forms by other people. In one and the same >phenomenon one artist may feel one thing and another artist quite a >different thing. One and the same sunset may evoke a feeling of joy in one >artist and sadness in another. Two artists may strive to express exactly >the same perceptions by entirely different methods, in different forms; or >entirely different perceptions in the same forms-according to how they were >taught, or contrary to it. And the spectators, listeners, or readers will >perceive, not what the artist wished to convey or what he felt, but what the >forms in which he expresses his sensations will make them feel by >association. Everything is subjective and everything is accidental, that is >to say, based on accidental associations-the impression of the artist and >his 'creation"' (he emphasized the word "creation"), "the perceptions of the >spectators, listeners, or readers. > "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything >in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist >knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce >one impression on one man and another impression on another, > > In Search of the Miraculous 27 > > presuming, of course, people on one level. It will always, and with >mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression. > "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions >on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never >receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, >objective art. Imagine some scientific work-a book on astronomy or >chemistry. It is impossible that one person should understand it in one way >and another in another way. Everyone who is sufficiently prepared and who >is able to read this book will understand what the author means, and >precisely as the author means it. An objective work of art is just such a >book, except that it affects the emotional and not only the intellectual >side of man:' > "Do such works of objective art exist at the present day?" I asked. > "Of course they exist," answered G. "The great Sphinx in Egypt is such a >work of art, as well as some historically known works of architecture, >certain statues of gods, and many other things. There are figures of gods >and of various mythological beings that can be read like books, only not >with the mind but with the emotions, provided they are sufficiently >developed. In the course of our travels in Central Asia we found, in the >desert at the foot of the Hindu Kush, a strange figure which we thought at >first was some ancient god or devil. At first it produced upon us simply >the impression of being a curiosity. But after a while we began to feet >that this figure contained many things, a big, complete, and complex system >of cosmology. And slowly, step by step, we began to decipher this system. >It was in the body of the figure, in its legs, in its arms, in its head, in >its eyes, in its ears; everywhere. In the whole statue there was nothing >accidental, nothing without meaning. And gradually we understood the aim of >the people who built this statue. We began to feel their thoughts, their >feelings. Some of us thought that we saw their faces, heard their voices. >At all events, we grasped the meaning of what they wanted to convey to us >across thousands of years, and not oily the meaning, but all the feelings >and the emotions connected with it as well. That indeed was art" > > I was very interested in what G. said about art. His principle of the >division of art into subjective and objective told me a great deal. I still >did not understand everything he put into these words. I had always felt in >art certain divisions and gradations which I could neither define nor >formulate, and which nobody else had formulated. Nevertheless I knew that >these divisions and gradations existed. So that all discussions about art >without the recognition of these divisions and gradations seemed to me empty >and useless, simply arguments about words. In what G. had said, in his >indications of the different levels which we fail to see and understand, I >felt an approach to the very gradations that I had felt but could not define. > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 25 10:12:03 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA02975; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:05:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:05:03 -0700 Message-ID: <360BCDAF.7A37758C@GroupZ.net> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:06:55 -0400 From: sno X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" , "USA-TESLA@list.iex.net" , "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Subject: New Patent Source On Line Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Yx4Nu2.0.Dk.-qy2s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6647 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: US Government to put patents on line... http://www.gcn.com/gcn/1998/september7/13.htm Steve Opelc From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 25 16:45:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA00683; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:42:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:42:16 -0700 Reply-To: From: "RNHuish" To: "Freenrg-L (E-mail)" , "KeelyNet (E-mail)" Subject: Dynamometer Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:38:17 -0700 Message-ID: <000901bde8de$2fff82e0$6b5b96d1@ns5.access1.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"nED86.0.UA.Nf23s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6648 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anyone have access to a appx 5-50 HP dynamometer in the Southern California area? I have an over-unity motor to test. Please email directly... - Reed ------------------------------------------ Reed N Huish, President & CEO Zenergy Corporation 5025 N Central Ave #414, Phoenix AZ 85012 Facsimile: 602.530.2549 Direct Email: mailto:reed@zenergy.com General Email: mailto:info@zenergy.com Internet: http://zenergy.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 25 17:42:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA22475; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 17:40:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 17:40:12 -0700 X-AirNote: 1 X-AIGTO: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <01BDE8BC.71AB7680.zpe@pdq.net> From: ZPE To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" , "'KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net'" , "'vortex-l@eskimo.com'" , "'afshou@pdq.net'" , "Arnold Narvaez (E-mail 2)" , "Brian Malatesta (E-mail)" To: "Charlott Duplantis (E-mail)" , "Darrel & Karen Ogg (E-mail)" , "David Jensen (E-mail)" , "Don Morris (E-mail)" , "Donna Carlton-Shavers (E-mail)" , "Edwin Averet (E-mail)" To: "Frank Haskel (E-mail)" , "Harry Howard (E-mail)" , "'hola100@swbell.net'" , "Joe & Kathy Walbaum (E-mail)" , "Joe Arms (E-mail)" , "Margaret Nikol (E-mail)" To: "Mike & Jackie Miller (E-mail 2)" , "Raymond Doyle & Kara Laurene Fruge' Gaines (E-mail)" , "Rhonda Duke (E-mail)" , "'sofasco@flash.net'" , "'wma@ix.netcom.com'" , "Bill McMurtry (E-mail)" To: "Chris Lautre (E-mail)" , "David Book (E-mail)" , "Edwin Strojny (E-mail)" , "Jean-Pierre Lentin (E-mail)" , "Jmag (E-mail)" , "Jorg D. Ostrowski (E-mail)" To: "Lance Ellinghaus (E-mail)" , "Terry Bastian (E-mail)" , "Zack Widup (E-mail)" Subject: COUNTDOWN...Update on progress Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 19:40:37 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 34 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"yKI5L1.0.3V5.hV33s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6649 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greetings all! I just wanted to bring everyone up to date on our progress. We have been negotiating the terms of a Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) with a very reputable 3rd party validation source which we located through our Aug 19th announcement. The terms have now been agreed upon and we are scheduled to meet together in a few days to sign the NDA and turn over disclosure material for their full evaluation. Within a week or so after that, they will make their decision. They have assured us that, if a positive decision is made, they have investors waiting to hear from them when a very promising technology is found, who will then provide the necessary funds to begin an official research/development project to verify our claims empirically to be immediately followed by the construction of a working prototype. Upon positive evaluation, we will be negotiating the terms of an intial working relationship that will last for the duration of the research phase lasting until a working prototype is constructed. This will, of course, be followed by efforts to isolate the first marketable design. Once this initial working (business) relationship has been agreed upon (within 4 weeks), our "countdown" will (unfortunately) be put on hold. If for some reason the new partnership which we will have developed with this 3rd party and its investors "breaks down" and is dissolved (which we seriously are NOT expecting), then our "countdown" will be accelerated to "ZERO" and full public disclosure of our discoveries will be made. If our new partnership proceeds as expected, we will be working together pushing very hard to make our F/E technology available to the world ASAP. Our estimates are that it could happen within a couple of years (in the year 2000). What a way to start the new millinium! Best Wishes, ZPE http://freeweb.pdq.net/zpe From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 25 21:03:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA21148; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:00:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:00:55 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980925190005.00cd8d78@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:00:05 -0700 To: "Kenneth Carrigan" From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Power source/Searl story Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, vortex-L@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"VIxxc.0.IA5.sR63s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6650 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The first band collects electrons. This is Neodymium. For some reason, the rare earth elements collect electrons from the environment. The next layer accelerates the electrons. The next layer slows the electrons to let the voltage level build up. The last layer emits the electrons. It's a macroscopic semiconductor or transistor of sorts. Dennis At 08:34 AM 9/25/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >Maybe Searl DID produce something? Again web site of INE > >http://www.padrak.com/ine/KONSEARL.html > >To copy a little..... from this page.. >"To recap briefly, the device uses a cylinder of Neodymium enclosed in bands of >Nylon, Iron and Aluminium. This unit generates 3 volts and 69 are used to attain >mains voltage, rotating around magnetised bands. This voltage suggests that a >pair of optically active electrons are involved, as 3 e.v. lies in the visible >spectrum. " > >This suggest that Searl did have a working device? .. the site tries to explain >that the Neodymium might have been an isotope? Maybe Dennis can enlighten >us with this one.... Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 25 21:20:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA25638; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:17:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:17:38 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980925191656.00d29060@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:16:56 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Objective Art - When reasoning fails Cc: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, vortex-L@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"tRnzT2.0.PG6.Xh63s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6651 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think the plasma structure in my Unified Field Art sculpture jpg may be in the same regime as the Correa's pulsed abnormal glow discharge (PAGD). What's more probable, getting a UFA sculpture with a piece of the puzzle? Or a finished marketable prototype with all the trade secrets handed to you on a platter - at no charge? As far as the poem goes, I was experimenting with different, nonconfrontational modes of communication as an alternative to flame wars. Please do me a favor and read Ouspensky's comment on Objective Art, which is quoted in my last message, one more time. Dennis At 08:09 AM 9/25/98 -0400, you wrote: >To All, > >Please let me know if this is really a Free Energy list or if it's a useless >poem, triplicate message, 1mb attachment, anything-else-but list! If so, I >am outa here. > >Thanks, > >Ed > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dennis C. Lee >To: Alan.CHEAH@adecco.com ; alex@frolov.spb.ru >; ahannan@MIT.EDU ; >deadnuts@deadnuts.com ; lupem@world.std.com >; peg@wintergreen.com ; >bso@acm.org ; claudeg@world.std.com ; >DaleSVP@ipa.net ; dtassen@c-zone.net ; >sweetser@world.std.com ; clsmith@darwin.bu.edu >; ccantor@sequenom.com ; >76753.3551@compuserve.com <76753.3551@compuserve.com>; eben@ergeng.com >; ehill@world.std.com ; >leep@world.std.com ; ejp@world.std.com >; wordpros@inforamp.net ; >moy@ziplink.net ; freenrg-l@eskimo.com >; gjcheah@guybutler.com ; >wellenstein@binah.cc.brandeis.edu ; >hic@world.std.com ; jkokor@alum.mit.edu >; Bensinger@bdhepa.hep.brandeis.edu >; Jim Hile ; >jim@msri.org ; discjt@servtech.com ; John >Ranta ; jsearl@tako.demon.co.uk >; joshprokop@worldnet.att.net >; KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net >; Leonard Dvorson ; >atc@wit.edu ; ohl@world.std.com ; >71650.60@compuserve.com <71650.60@compuserve.com>; pgm@world.std.com >; rsmith@itiip.com ; >RICHARDH@uucp-1.csn.net ; richard.quick@slug.org >; raddison@world.std.com ; >71022.3001@compuserve.com <71022.3001@compuserve.com>; >73577.123@compuserve.com <73577.123@compuserve.com>; tesla@pupman.com >; thiahadge@aol.com ; >tcapizzi@world.std.com ; tom.duff@poweroasis.com >; TAFAUL@aol.com ; >vortex-L@eskimo.com >Date: Friday, September 25, 1998 4:40 AM >Subject: Objective Art - When reasoning fails > > >>I suggest that we start the 'Unified Field Art' art movement. The painting >>was done shortly before the plasma experiment was performed. Both are shown >>in ufa.jpg. Veredith cut the cone electrode for me out of her own >initiative >>and instinct. Incredibly, I measured the cone angle to be the same as what >>is associated with the Great Pyramid, fifty one degrees as I recall. I >later >>tried to scale the electrode size up but this caused the spinning plasma >>cones to collapse onto the electrodes. The plasma pattern was no longer >>stable. Does accepting the help of an abstract artist for plasma physics >>experiments increase the ability to produce tuned phenomenon on the first >try? >> >>Below is a quote from P.D. Ouspensky's book. >> >> >>Dennis >> >> >> >>26 In Search of the Miraculous >> >> "It is known," said G. "But it would be no advantage whatever for people >to >>know it. It would even be worse. Some would believe it, others would not >>believe it, yet others would demand proofs. Afterwards they would begin to >>break one another's heads. Everything ends this way with people." >> >> In Moscow, at the same time, we also bad several interesting talks about >>art. These were connected with the story which was read on the first >>evening that I saw G. >> "At the moment it is not yet clear to you," G. once said, "that people >>living on the earth can belong to very different levels, although in >>appearance they look exactly the same. just as there arc very different >>levels of men, so there are different levels of art. Only you do not >>realize at present that the difference between these levels is far greater >>than you might suppose. You take different things on one level, far too >>near one another, and you think these different levels are accessible to >you. >> "I do not call art all that you call art, which is simply mechanical >>reproduction, imitation of nature or other people, or simply fantasy, or an >>attempt to be original. Real art is something quite different. Among >works >>of art, especially works of ancient art, you meet with many things you >>cannot explain and which contain a certain something you do not feel in >>modern works Of art. But as you do not realize what this difference is you >>very soon forget it and continue to take everything as one kind of art. >And >>yet there is an enormous difference between your art and the art of which I >>speak. In your art everything is subjective-the artist's perception of >this >>or that sensation; the forms in which he tries to express his sensations >and >>the perception of these forms by other people. In one and the same >>phenomenon one artist may feel one thing and another artist quite a >>different thing. One and the same sunset may evoke a feeling of joy in one >>artist and sadness in another. Two artists may strive to express exactly >>the same perceptions by entirely different methods, in different forms; or >>entirely different perceptions in the same forms-according to how they were >>taught, or contrary to it. And the spectators, listeners, or readers will >>perceive, not what the artist wished to convey or what he felt, but what >the >>forms in which he expresses his sensations will make them feel by >>association. Everything is subjective and everything is accidental, that >is >>to say, based on accidental associations-the impression of the artist and >>his 'creation"' (he emphasized the word "creation"), "the perceptions of >the >>spectators, listeners, or readers. >> "In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything >>in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist >>knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce >>one impression on one man and another impression on another, >> >> In Search of the Miraculous 27 >> >> presuming, of course, people on one level. It will always, and with >>mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression. >> "At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions >>on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never >>receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, >>objective art. Imagine some scientific work-a book on astronomy or >>chemistry. It is impossible that one person should understand it in one >way >>and another in another way. Everyone who is sufficiently prepared and who >>is able to read this book will understand what the author means, and >>precisely as the author means it. An objective work of art is just such a >>book, except that it affects the emotional and not only the intellectual >>side of man:' >> "Do such works of objective art exist at the present day?" I asked. >> "Of course they exist," answered G. "The great Sphinx in Egypt is such a >>work of art, as well as some historically known works of architecture, >>certain statues of gods, and many other things. There are figures of gods >>and of various mythological beings that can be read like books, only not >>with the mind but with the emotions, provided they are sufficiently >>developed. In the course of our travels in Central Asia we found, in the >>desert at the foot of the Hindu Kush, a strange figure which we thought at >>first was some ancient god or devil. At first it produced upon us simply >>the impression of being a curiosity. But after a while we began to feet >>that this figure contained many things, a big, complete, and complex system >>of cosmology. And slowly, step by step, we began to decipher this system. >>It was in the body of the figure, in its legs, in its arms, in its head, in >>its eyes, in its ears; everywhere. In the whole statue there was nothing >>accidental, nothing without meaning. And gradually we understood the aim >of >>the people who built this statue. We began to feel their thoughts, their >>feelings. Some of us thought that we saw their faces, heard their voices. >>At all events, we grasped the meaning of what they wanted to convey to us >>across thousands of years, and not oily the meaning, but all the feelings >>and the emotions connected with it as well. That indeed was art" >> >> I was very interested in what G. said about art. His principle of the >>division of art into subjective and objective told me a great deal. I >still >>did not understand everything he put into these words. I had always felt >in >>art certain divisions and gradations which I could neither define nor >>formulate, and which nobody else had formulated. Nevertheless I knew that >>these divisions and gradations existed. So that all discussions about art >>without the recognition of these divisions and gradations seemed to me >empty >>and useless, simply arguments about words. In what G. had said, in his >>indications of the different levels which we fail to see and understand, I >>felt an approach to the very gradations that I had felt but could not >define. >> >> >> >> >> > > > Tall Ships http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 25 22:06:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA04788; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:03:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:03:22 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:58:49 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-vRLy2.0.fA1.PM73s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6652 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:25 AM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote: >In <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com>, on 09/23/98 > at 02:55 AM, Lee Markland said: > >> In contrast with the force of gravity, the strength of the mystery >>force does not decline proportionally to the inverse square of a space >>craft's distance from the Sun but at a constant (linear) rate; this >>argues against the force being a gravitational effect of the Sun. > >Hmmm, smells like aether to me. (A slight drag was a >requirement for the aether to exist. Since they could detect >no drag, the aeither didn't exist) > >-Charlie- That would be interesting, to obtain verifiable proof of the aether. Of course it would have to be verified independently using different experiments. Anyway Silvertooth has supposedly done that and the late Stephen Marinov wrote a paper on it. Still in all, we can only specualte. Aether, tired light, push gravity from outside the system, misconception of the doppler effect. In fact it seems to me that it would be profitable drawing up a list of all possible causes for the "apparent" slowing of the spacecraft, regardless of whether or not the speculation fits within the framerwork of conventional physics. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 25 23:39:58 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA19497; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:37:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:37:29 -0700 Message-ID: <01ea01bde917$eaa76340$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: COUNTDOWN...Update on progress Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 01:57:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"gLeTL3.0.Wm4.ek83s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6653 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I just wanted to bring everyone up to date on our progress. We have been >negotiating the terms of a Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) with a very >reputable 3rd party validation source which we located through our Aug 19th >announcement. The terms have now been agreed upon and we are scheduled to As I predicted, we will never hear of it. >meet together in a few days to sign the NDA and turn over disclosure >material for their full evaluation. Within a week or so after that, they >will make their decision. They have assured us that, if a positive >decision is made, they have investors waiting to hear from them when a very >promising technology is found, who will then provide the necessary funds to >begin an official research/development project to verify our claims >empirically to be immediately followed by the construction of a working >prototype. What if their project takes years, could people not be helped by this today? >Once this initial working (business) relationship has been agreed upon >(within 4 weeks), our "countdown" will (unfortunately) be put on hold. HAHA! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 26 08:03:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA05308; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 08:01:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 08:01:55 -0700 Message-ID: <360D1DA5.1BDF@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:00:21 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: The ether References: <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_tcqL3.0.mI1.Y7G3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6654 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Charlie Hodgson wrote: > Hmmm, smells like aether to me. (A slight drag was a > requirement for the aether to exist. Since they could detect > no drag, the aeither didn't exist) Actually, an ether can exist without an ether drag. It is referred to as a "Lorentzian ether." Einstein didn't like it though, and called it superfluous. I like it better though, because it gives a material cause for time dilation and length contraction, where special relativity just says they happen. Below is a description of special relativity and lorentz ether theory: Special relativity: The speed of light is constant in all reference frames, no matter how fast you are moving. In other words, when an object (A) is stationary, and another object (B) is travelling 50% the speed of light, the speed of light is equal for both of them. Object B measures a beam of light coming out of his ship to be going 300,000km/s, and object A measures the speed of the beam of light+the speed of B to be 300,000km/s. I've studied relativity for quite a while and it makes no sense how this is possible. It is physically impossible for a speed to have two values at the same time. But relativity still holds that it is possible. Lorentz ether theory: The speed of light is constant only in one reference frame, the ether frame (E). Now, let us assume for a moment that we have object A at rest within frame E. Now object B is moving 50%C relative to A. Object A measures the beam of light sent from B to be going at a velocity of 300,000km/s. Object B measures the speed of the beam to be 300,000km/s also. But, since B is moving with respect to the ether, time dilation and length contraction alter his measuring process. Therefore, the value of 300,000km/s that B measures is flawed; the beam is actually going much slower. It is interesting to note that both time dilation and length contraction are present in the same values in special relativity and lorentz ether theory. Lorentz theory was abandoned for only one reason: it was slightly more complicated, with more 'metaphysical' requirements. I ask you, isn't the requirement that the simplest explanation be correct just slightly 'metaphysical' itself? Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 26 11:56:18 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA27331; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 11:55:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 11:55:09 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 06:09:11 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> References: <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"KHA8F3.0.yg6.DYJ3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6655 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:58 AM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 09:25 AM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote: >>In <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com>, on 09/23/98 >> at 02:55 AM, Lee Markland said: >> >>> In contrast with the force of gravity, the strength of the mystery >>>force does not decline proportionally to the inverse square of a space >>>craft's distance from the Sun but at a constant (linear) rate; this >>>argues against the force being a gravitational effect of the Sun. >> >>Hmmm, smells like aether to me. (A slight drag was a >>requirement for the aether to exist. Since they could detect >>no drag, the aeither didn't exist) >> >>-Charlie- > >That would be interesting, to obtain verifiable proof of the aether. Of >course it would have to be verified independently using different experiments. > >Anyway Silvertooth has supposedly done that and the late Stephen Marinov >wrote a paper on it. > >Still in all, we can only specualte. > >Aether, tired light, push gravity from outside the system, misconception of >the doppler effect. > >In fact it seems to me that it would be profitable drawing up a list of all >possible causes for the "apparent" slowing of the spacecraft, regardless of >whether or not the speculation fits within the framerwork of conventional >physics. > >Lee > > >I read your last post with great interest. I to have studdied the nature od mater with reguard to higher states of energy. I have developed a theory of energy mater states I call "Pure Non-manifest Energy" or PNE. This energy is hinter at in all manifest states due to conversion, ie, kenitic, thermal, electromagnetic. All these energied can be converted, back and forth with some losses, of course. But these simple facts point the way to a nutral of transitional modle of energy that can be expressed in multiple forms. In my work with hydrogen I have captured this energy. I can measure it, store it, and use it at will. Buy the way it occupies space, which then theoretically outer space can be full of it. Here is a url of one of my postings. http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html Please give me a read on this page All the best TR Knudtson you can find much more on the web by Search; Browns' Gas I am one of the 7 original researchers on this project. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 26 14:36:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA01671; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 14:35:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 14:35:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980927022620.00aa52e0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 02:26:20 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: The ether In-Reply-To: <360D1DA5.1BDF@sunherald.infi.net> References: <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"gHJao.0.1Q.SuL3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6656 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:00 AM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote: >Charlie Hodgson wrote: > >> Hmmm, smells like aether to me. (A slight drag was a >> requirement for the aether to exist. Since they could detect >> no drag, the aeither didn't exist) > >Actually, an ether can exist without an ether drag. It is referred to as >a "Lorentzian ether." Einstein didn't like it though, and called it >superfluous. I like it better though, because it gives a material cause >for time dilation and length contraction, where special relativity just >says they happen. Below is a description of special relativity and >lorentz ether theory: > >Special relativity: The speed of light is constant in all reference >frames, no matter how fast you are moving. In other words, when an >object (A) is stationary, and another object (B) is travelling 50% the >speed of light, the speed of light is equal for both of them. Object B >measures a beam of light coming out of his ship to be going 300,000km/s, >and object A measures the speed of the beam of light+the speed of B to >be 300,000km/s. I've studied relativity for quite a while and it makes >no sense how this is possible. It is physically impossible for a speed >to have two values at the same time. But relativity still holds that it >is possible. > >Lorentz ether theory: The speed of light is constant only in one >reference frame, the ether frame (E). Now, let us assume for a moment >that we have object A at rest within frame E. Now object B is moving >50%C relative to A. Object A measures the beam of light sent from B to >be going at a velocity of 300,000km/s. Object B measures the speed of >the beam to be 300,000km/s also. But, since B is moving with respect to >the ether, time dilation and length contraction alter his measuring >process. Therefore, the value of 300,000km/s that B measures is flawed; >the beam is actually going much slower. > >It is interesting to note that both time dilation and length contraction >are present in the same values in special relativity and lorentz ether >theory. Lorentz theory was abandoned for only one reason: it was >slightly more complicated, with more 'metaphysical' requirements. I ask >you, isn't the requirement that the simplest explanation be correct just >slightly 'metaphysical' itself? > >Kyle R. Mcallister Time dilation? Length Contradiction? Well I think we know one thing, if we use our noggins a bit. Time can not be dilated nor contracted. If for no other reason you can't dilate or contract things that are subjective concepts and exist only in the mind. I would even question length contraction. Hope I'm around when they discover light speed, and put the notion to rest. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 26 16:21:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA25162; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 16:19:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 16:19:36 -0700 Message-ID: <360D9240.590D@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:17:52 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The ether References: <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980927022620.00aa52e0@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nMJI23.0.296.7QN3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6657 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > Time dilation? Length Contradiction? Well I think we know one thing, if we > use our noggins a bit. Time can not be dilated nor contracted. If for no > other reason you can't dilate or contract things that are subjective > concepts and exist only in the mind. Time dilation (according to lorentz ether theory) does not occur per se...time is defined as an absolute. However, the _aging_ process or speed of clocks can be altered by moving them WRT the ether. In Lorentz theory time dilation is best defined as "the apparent slowing of moving clocks." > I would even question length contraction. Hope I'm around when they > discover light speed, and put the notion to rest. AFAIK, length contraction has been proven in laborotory. Time dilation certainly has. But a non-absolute time has certainly not been disproven. Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 26 17:46:08 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA21629; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 17:44:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 17:44:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980926053000.00aad210@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 05:30:00 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: The ether In-Reply-To: <360D9240.590D@sunherald.infi.net> References: <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980927022620.00aa52e0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"xaVdF3.0.oH5.ofO3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6658 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:17 PM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote: >Lee Markland wrote: >> >> Time dilation? Length Contradiction? Well I think we know one thing, if we >> use our noggins a bit. Time can not be dilated nor contracted. If for no >> other reason you can't dilate or contract things that are subjective >> concepts and exist only in the mind. > >Time dilation (according to lorentz ether theory) does not occur per >se...time is defined as an absolute. However, the _aging_ process or >speed of clocks can be altered by moving them WRT the ether. In Lorentz >theory time dilation is best defined as "the apparent slowing of moving >clocks." > >> I would even question length contraction. Hope I'm around when they >> discover light speed, and put the notion to rest. > >AFAIK, length contraction has been proven in laborotory. Time dilation >certainly has. But a non-absolute time has certainly not been disproven. > >Kyle R. Mcallister And what do you mean that time dilation has been proven in laboratories? Are you talking about the atomic clock experiments? All they have proven is that something has affected the emission rate of cesium. Tom Van Flandern told me that they know that gravitational pull affects the emission rate of cesium, I would suggest that perhaps there are other influences as well. Just because something affects the emission rate of cesium, doesn't mean that time is being dilated. As regards laboratory proof of the contraction of length. As far as I can determine. I don't think so. As regards the ageing process. It is a result of gravity, as much as anything else. Lessen gravitational stress and you decrease the stress on the systems and hence it's deterioration. Increase it and you increase stress and hence deterioration. NASA has discovered that with Lab Rats in laboratories. All things being equal I don't think that speed makes any difference, except where it increases or decreases stress or G's (which increase stress). Fighter Jocks beware, they are shortening their lives. Lee > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 26 18:48:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA02546; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:46:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:46:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980927111729.008318d0@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 11:17:29 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re:Fast Cars fuelled from Fast Food waste Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"tZzp41.0.id.4aP3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6659 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! ALL have added an interesting article on running a vechicle on used fryer oil from fast food outlets http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/diesel.htm have also added an article on a new building material stronger and better material than concrete made from waste materials as discovered by Melbourne University mail can be sent to the address below. Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 26 18:54:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA05274; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:52:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:52:57 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980927112341.008352d0@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 11:23:41 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re:Fast Cars fuelled from Fast Food waste Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ei2t6.0.AI1.ufP3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6660 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! ALL have added an interesting article on running a vechicle on used fryer oil from fast food outlets http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/diesel.htm have also added an article on a new building material stronger and better material than concrete made from waste materials as discovered by Melbourne University http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/concrete.html mail can be sent to the address below. Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 26 18:59:04 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA07587; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:57:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:57:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980927112748.008395f0@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 11:27:48 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: GEOFF EGEL Subject: Re:The Joe Cell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"M3aDN2.0.Ss1.ojP3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6661 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! ALL There has been I noticed some comments on the joe cell as reported in the Australian Nexus magazine. I had recieved information from anonamous source six months before hand and was not sure of what to make of it ,but put it on my website anyway. and now after the publication of their aticle in Nexus I have since bought the video out of the horses mouth and the book Whilst being no expert it did show a method of breaking water down by what one can assume to be a form of ectrolysis . It is has some differences I find different in that the cathode is place at bottom of the metal plate (stainless steel food grade non magnetic) and the use of neutral plates I havent seen before. >From what I have seen both on the video and in the booklet I am tempted to try some experiemnts when I can aford the stainless steel cyclinders required to perform the test. I wonder if the diffrening magnetic fields here in Austtralia can produce differing results elsewhere in the world. If there is a demand I will produce magnetic book with phots and construction details if the joe devices cost should be about $20 Australian I will put some additional photos and detials at running on orgone energy at my website shortly Geoff Geoff http://geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135 Solaris searching for natures energy sources. Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia Phone (08) (8584 5201) Usually can be reached hereafter 6 pm local time (Monday - Saturday) Central Australian time others times you cannot be certain of getting me here. Like to hear from You, I expect this to apply only to Australian viewers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 26 19:28:15 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA17038; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:26:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:26:56 -0700 Message-ID: <360DBE30.2A57@sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 21:25:20 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" Reply-To: stk@sunherald.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The ether References: <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980927022620.00aa52e0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980926053000.00aad210@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sdH7w1.0.q94.k9Q3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6662 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: > > And what do you mean that time dilation has been proven in laboratories? > > Are you talking about the atomic clock experiments? No. Muons. When muons are accelerated to high speed in a particle accelerator, their lifetime becomes longer. Meaning that either A: Time doesn't dilate, but they just live longer by precisely the same amount that lorentz theory/special relativity predicts, or B: time dilates. The atomic clocks also agree with the predictions for time dilation. > Tom Van Flandern told me that they know that gravitational pull affects the > emission rate of cesium, I would suggest that perhaps there are other > influences as well. Gravitational pull does affect the decay rate or nuclear substances. This is called 'general relativity.' However, I believe that general relativity will need to be modified to incorporate a Lorentz-type ether. So when I say that I think relativity is wrong, I simply mean that it needs: 1. A material cause for something, no ad hoc statements, and 2. It allows FTL effects. Kyle R. Mcallister From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 26 22:45:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA32224; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 22:44:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 22:44:02 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01bde9da$089b9c00$03faf0cf@default> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: Re:The Joe Cell Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 22:44:46 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"L4bY1.0.Qt7.Y2T3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6663 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Whilst being no expert it did show a method of breaking water down by what >one can assume to be a form of ectrolysis . Yes, the Joe electrolysis cell designs are given an initial charge from a 12VDC battery for less than 3 minutes to "charge the water". The cell was then connected by metal pipe to the car carburetor vacuum intake manifold port, as described by Joe on the video, to run a car. The cell would continued to produce a water gas, seen as vapor coming off the water surface being sucked into the engine, after the 12VDC input power was cut off to the cell. In Hilton's book he said that Joe later found that the connection from the cell to the carburetor could also work by just touching the body of the carburetor. >It is has some differences I find different in that the cathode is place at >bottom of the metal plate (stainless steel food grade non magnetic) and >the use of neutral plates I havent seen before. Yes, the Joe cell designs with 2 to 3 neutral plates with 12VDC input was similar to Brown's patent 4,014,777 with over a dozen neutral plates and 120 VDC input. >I wonder if the diffrening magnetic fields here in Austtralia can produce >differing results elsewhere in the world. Not indicated by Joe in his research, but used in Brown's patent 4,081,656 where he found that a magnetic field would attract the oxygen gas from his H&O mixture for use in cutting metal while the uneffected hydrogen gas could be used for welding. >I will put some additional photos and detials at running on orgone energy >at my website shortly Interesting, looking forward to seeing this :-) >Geoff Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 26 23:11:01 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA06298; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:06:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:06:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199809270607.CAA00180@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Amazing maze/Law of Squares Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 02:11:14 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gp6jX2.0.FY1.bNT3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6664 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello all. I spent many hours on the following chess problem which yields an amazing result when the solution is found. I would assume this is a unique or solitary solution. Start a chess knight at the corner of the board and move it 63 times so that it has touched every square. This implies that the knight cannot move to a spot that has been previously occupied. Trying to solve this problem gets like a maze of travel that leads to a dead end where the next move cannot be made because you've been there before. The best I was able to do was to leave 4 unoccupied spaces on the board before becoming trapped. When the correct 64 numbered sequence is found and each square is given a number on the board it is observed that all the rows and columns add to the same number. But the diagonals do not add to this number which means that it is not a perfect magic square. I was wondering if anyone out there could easily figure the odds on randomly selecting this supposed unique solution, (which could also be shown 8 ways). Speaking of odds and magic squares the following facts might seem amazing. Given a magic square of 100 numbers, how many different unique solutions could there be? Once the method of construction is learned it is readily evident that over 37,000 trillion,(yes 3.7 times 10 the 16th power) possible arrangements of numbers can satisfy the condition of being a magic square of one hundred numbers. Perhaps more amazing than this is that when Searl first shows a square of 100 numbers in book 1 of the Law of Squares he does not use one these easily readily shown solutions but rather uses tricks to derive a different solution in which if all the tricks were included the true odds become mind numbing or confusing to say the least. Three books and $150 dollars later we find at the end of book 2 a corrected square sent in by John Thomas,his American supporter and dealer of Searls books. To this Searl responds "yes I did dropped a clanger thanks John for pointing it out" (the professor doesnt bother too much with spelling or literary context). So okay everyone can make a mistake. But Two? The first square of significance in learning the construction of these squares is the eight square of 64 numbers. This can be shown to have 331,176 readily evident possibilities (according to what I deduced,not Searl) But does Searl use one of these? No, only in this square he violates his own construction laws but still produces a magic square which actually means a third of a million possibilities is a conservative estimate. In short Searl seems to want to make an explanation of construction of these squares a most difficult endeavor which is most irritating to someone trying to decipher the method. Again at the back of book 2 Thomas sends this message. "In doing the squares I noticed that square 8 was not symmetrical. I have enclosed a "corrected" square 8 and would like to know if it is correct according to your law of squares." Also a corrected square 12 is submitted by John Thomas. Searl also notes at the finish of these submissions "Most of the mistakes are there on purpose to check if you are studying these books or not." Well I studied the first 4 of these but the only way I was able to know that I had an understanding of what was going on was to construct the squares for myself. Since I was incarcerated for 4 months for traveling without a liscense I had time for these considerations, and plenty of chess games too. This kind of astounded inmates when I produced a magic square of 144 numbers and we weren't allowed to possess a calculator! Now if Searl had used a correct magic square of 64 numbers he could have left the following puzzle for everyones enjoyment, but he didnt and so I will. A uniform square consists of the numbers 1-64 in sequence in rows or columns. Construct a balanced or magic square in which only half of these numbers are allowed to be moved from their uniform position. Sincerly rebounding from past and current misfortune; Harvey D. Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net PS: To possibly glimpse where all of this led me visit my message board at www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb124201 or email me directly if interested in Searl book exchange. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 27 01:56:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA32052; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 01:55:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 01:55:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199809270857.EAA23848@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Gyromagnetic ratio Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 05:01:11 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"469_D1.0.kq7.MsV3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6665 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Another amazing Faraday observation; the magnetic lines of force do not seem to follow a rotation parallel to its magnetic field. That is to say if a cylinder is magnetized so that north and south poles are made on the ends,and the cylinder is then rotated about its cylindrical axis, the lines of force still appear stationary. This is supposedly due to the cohered ferromagnetic spins tilting to accommodate in a gyroscopic way to the added angular momentum introduced upon the system. This ratio for different magnetic materials is then termed the gyromagnetic ratio. This raises the inverse question; what would then occur if the sample were magnetized similarly while in cylindrical rotation. Would the "imprint" of angular momentum change the resultant gyromagnetic ratio? Is it not so far fetched to imagine that rollers composed strictly of strontium ferrite could be placed between aluminum rings to establish a capacity? This ceramic material offers the possibility of amplifying both the electric and magnetic fields. Imagine if you will that an alternating potential is placed across the rings accompanied by a simultaneous alternating magnetic field at right angles through the rollers. The Lorentz interaction of the AC inputs will cause rotation of the rollers by theory. Book 1b of Searl work suggests "We cannot at this stage state that a one material class will work the same as that of a multi-compound system that Searl uses. Only a real research program could identify if this were possible...it may well be so..." It would seem to me that this is misleading in that the cost of a single element system must be far less costly. People may not readily glimpse what I am implying but if two AC signals can cause rotation of an unmagnetized ferrite roller then at some time in the picture when the fields are sufficiently scaled up enough in strength by making increasingly larger and larger prototypes the point should theoretically be reached whereby enough mmf will exist so that the ferrite rollers could be magnetized in rotation with an alternating current input. I realize that this idea is not the norm but how else or what better way to explain how a substance could be magnetized with an alternating current imprint? This idea has taken awhile but in an earlier post I reffered to a magnetic cement in which the curing time was intended to be subjected to the same circumstances. A unique way of imprinting? Lets hope time will tell. Sincere in the work, H Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 27 02:18:24 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA02356; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 02:17:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 02:17:23 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: sepp@lastrega.com (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Re:The Joe Cell Message-Id: <98Sep27.051700-0400_edt.34842565-9013+21@hugin.request.net> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 05:12:55 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <"8L_pI1.0.ka.ZAW3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6666 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MRAND WROTE: > >Not indicated by Joe in his research, but used in Brown's patent 4,081,656 >where he found that a magnetic field would attract the oxygen gas from his >H&O mixture for use in cutting metal while the uneffected hydrogen gas could >be used for welding. > Very interesting point on the magnetic field. Italian Inventor Dotto claimed that his system, used to run a car, separated hydrogen and oxygen by a strong magnet with holes, which were alternately magnetized. (More on the Dotto system can be found on my home page under the heading technology, hydrogen). Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com homepage at http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 27 02:31:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA04782; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 02:30:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 02:30:46 -0700 Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 03:32:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: keelynet@dallastexas.net Subject: [off topic]Re: Amazing maze/Law of Squares In-Reply-To: <199809270607.CAA00180@fh102.infi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"iinl71.0.dA1.5NW3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6667 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Meat Truck wrote: [-snip-most] Hello all. I spent many hours on the following chess problem which yields an amazing result when the solution is found. I would assume this is a unique or solitary solution. Start a chess knight at the corner of the board and move it 63 times so that it has touched every square. This implies that the knight cannot move to a spot that has been previously occupied. Trying to solve this problem gets like a maze of travel that leads to a dead end where the next move cannot be made because you've been there before. The best I was able to do was to leave 4 unoccupied spaces on the board before becoming trapped. When the correct 64 numbered sequence is found and each square is given a number on the board it is observed that all the rows and columns add to the same number. ----------------------------------- Hi Meat Truck, :) How many ways to do this? (4 if corners only!:) Yes, the answer is 64 and the moves (or maze) is called the "Knights Tour" in chess. Actually there are 64 ways of completing this "tour" if one is allowed to place his knight ANYwhere on the board! If you start in the middle of the board for example you use the same path(s) you have found, and work your way out to one of the four corners. You cross over in-to outside exit opposite the center square you started on. Note: '^' below. The board 8x8 and 2x2 in the center, a little easier to go from the inside out hitting every square, though you can number them and see the 2x2,3x3,4x4,^,5x5,6x6,7x7,8x8 relationships as you move outward. Oddly(?) the smallest board of squares this will work on is 8x8.... I suppose 16x16 squares, 64x64 etc would work also, but I've never had the time to "try-it"... maybe IBMS Deep-Blue?:) Anyway (starting Knight postition), if your 4x4^ or less go inward than outward to a corner, if your starting knight is 5x5^ (to any given corner) go outwardly then end up in the center with your last move. For example a Knight starting on D5 to will exit on (corner) H1. a Knight starting on E5 will exit on (corner) A1. At least that's the way i remember it.. there are "a trillion WRONG ways!" Best to you & yours -=se=- steve (e4... if you'd like a game = offline:) ekwall ekwall2@diac.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 27 02:59:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA08233; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 02:58:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 02:58:42 -0700 Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 04:00:30 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: keelynet@dallastexas.net Subject: Oops [off topic]Re: Amazing maze/Law of Squares In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"qrOqm3.0.T02.InW3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6668 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Steve Ekwall wrote: Oops, quick correction: (sorry Meat Truck:} I wrote: " though you can number them and see the 2x2,3x3,4x4,^,5x5,6x6,7x7,8x8 relationships as you move outward." I meant to write "2x2,3x3,4x4, 5 ^ 5 ,6x6,7x7,8x8" ^ The center of any of these matrics will always have an opposing exit corner. [see a 5x5 (knights distance of attack) or 3x3 grid, floating ANYWHERE on the board there is always a closest "center square" to this floating grid, and the exit corner is opposite this square..], Or your in a SMALLER grid near a corner. exit opposite! Sorry for the previous typo -=se=- steve (it's late: 3:55 :) ekwall l8tr g8tr! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 27 03:40:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA12962; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 03:39:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 03:39:40 -0700 Message-Id: <199809271041.GAA30427@fh102.infi.net> From: "Meat Truck" To: , Subject: Third time's a charm. Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 06:44:31 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BmahU1.0.SA3.iNX3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6669 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Perhaps I havent always been an ideal Keelynet denizen but I would like to add that variety is the spice of life. Its wonderful to have a great many opinions on a submitted matter. I have learned to be corrected when I am wrong. I was very glad when Jerry Decker made some information available in Re:Magnetic Cement Vs Searl Rollers, 8/30/98,12:57PM To quote; Searl claims that he found there is a rotational angle associated with each element and that you can blend each element together in such a way that the spins REINFORCE each other to produce to produce a high intensity magnetic rotation from a fixed magnet. Such a fixed magnetic spin would make it possible to build a self running magnetic device using cylindrical magnetic rollers. Since I have already made two posts maybe a third is in order. This is from my jail writings,"What the dream means to Me." A man named John Searl had a dream. A great deal of symbolism containing mathematics has been attached to this dream. But I have understood the dream in a different context. I by no means understand this Searl effect, only that simularities in description of process exist. Searl states: There are two prime states within nature, energy and matter. Nature tends to be binary in its actions .. Thus within the expression of energy we have kinetic and potential energies. Within electrical energy we find an active state in the magnetic field and a passive state in the electric field. This corresponds to the kinetic energy of charge movement through space and the potential energy of charge storage in space. Now an electric field can cause charge movement through space in which case its potential or voltage is diminished. If this charge movement is at right angles to a magnetic field that field also exerts a force on the charge,which is at right angles to both the fields involved. But a magnetic field does not exert a force on a potential electric field in which no charges are moving. Searl states that nature sometimes makes a triangle arrangement with its actions or functions. An electric field at right angles to a magnetic field can produce motion at right angles to both fields. If one of these fields reverses direction so does the force that causes the motion. But if both fields simultaneously change direction the force that causes the motion does not. The negative of a negative is a positive. Sincerly, H Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 27 09:20:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA20889; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 09:19:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 09:19:48 -0700 Message-ID: <000601bdea32$dae2c140$3dfaf0cf@default> From: "mrand@access" To: Subject: Re: Re:The Joe Cell Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 09:20:33 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"xOJkx2.0.J65.aMc3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6670 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >(More on the Dotto system can be found on my home page under the heading >technology, hydrogen). > >Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY >new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com >homepage at http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger Written at your home page: >There seems to be another patent for a process of electrolysis by use of resonant electrical to Andrija Puharich, which I have seen mentioned somewhere but have no details on.> You might check out "Henry" Puharich's 120% eff. electrolyzer USA patent 4,394,230. I heard he had also powered a car with it. On the '79 PACE symposium video he describes his cell but no details were given. IMHO the Joe/Brown cell designs looked the simpliest way to do it :-) Michael From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 27 11:36:23 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA24727; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 11:35:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 11:35:12 -0700 Message-ID: <015801bdea45$59d646e0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: Subject: Re: Third time's a charm. Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 14:26:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"SDABI3.0.H26.WLe3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6671 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: So he says to use neodymium, with nylon, well I suppose the next step for verification is for you to find out their rotational angles and lets see how it matches up. Where would you look? >Perhaps I havent always been an ideal Keelynet denizen but I would like to >add that variety is the spice of life. Its wonderful to have a great many >opinions on a submitted matter. I have learned to be corrected when I am >wrong. I was very glad when Jerry Decker made some information available in >Re:Magnetic Cement Vs Searl Rollers, 8/30/98,12:57PM > >To quote; Searl claims that he found there is a rotational angle associated >with each element and that you can blend each element together in such a >way that the spins REINFORCE each other to produce to produce a high >intensity magnetic rotation from a fixed magnet. Such a fixed magnetic spin >would make it possible to build a self running magnetic device using >cylindrical magnetic rollers. > >Since I have already made two posts maybe a third is in order. This is from >my jail writings,"What the dream means to Me." > > A man named John Searl had a dream. A great deal of symbolism >containing mathematics has been attached to this dream. But I have >understood the dream in a different context. I by no means understand this >Searl effect, only that simularities in description of process exist. > Searl states: There are two prime states within nature, energy and >matter. Nature tends to be binary in its actions .. Thus within the >expression of energy we have kinetic and potential energies. Within >electrical energy we find an active state in the magnetic field and a >passive state in the electric field. This corresponds to the kinetic energy >of charge movement through space and the potential energy of charge storage >in space. > Now an electric field can cause charge movement through space in which >case its potential or voltage is diminished. If this charge movement is at >right angles to a magnetic field that field also exerts a force on the >charge,which is at right angles to both the fields involved. But a magnetic >field does not exert a force on a potential electric field in which no >charges are moving. > Searl states that nature sometimes makes a triangle arrangement with >its actions or functions. An electric field at right angles to a magnetic >field can produce motion at right angles to both fields. If one of these >fields reverses direction so does the force that causes the motion. But if >both fields simultaneously change direction the force that causes the >motion does not. The negative of a negative is a positive. Sincerly, H >Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 27 13:48:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29447; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:45:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:45:51 -0700 From: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca Message-Id: X-Sender: mbgupta@julian.uwo.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:46:09 -0400 To: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Re: Korean electric water breakthrough Cc: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Fred Walter , "magna-pak@lonet.ca" , "Vanderhooft, Mike (Sudbury)" , Harry.Willems@sympatico.ca, "Kurush Mistry", nm@execulink.com, wniski@hotmail.com, rife-list@eskimo.com, Rifers@Majordomo.net, silver-list@eskimo.com, list@oxytherapy.com, grappo@bahnhof.se, ShainMusic@aol.com In-Reply-To: <199808311145.NAA07046@imaginet.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"mI-Rk1.0.qB7.yFg3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6672 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean Pierre, thx for this wonderful tit bit, somehow I did not see it earlier. John Crane of the Rife fame has patented similar devices for killing bacteria in large gasoline (petrol to you Europeans) reservoirs in the US army... apparently the Nixon administration of that time wanted nothing to do with it as by doing so they would step on their oil friends! This is documented in on a Rife technology video tape that I have. For the last couple of years I have not used laundry soap in my house. And can vouch that cleaning with modified water works well - maybe not quite as good as lots and lots of soap but very close. The easiest way to reduce surface tension is to use piezoelectric materials. There are a number of device that are already on the market with money back guarantees. I have tried 2 types both work. How well they work may depend on the water in your area?? One is a puck type of affair that is filled with piezo ceramic beads and another is a supper saturated water (solution of some piezoelectric salt chemical) ball. The later works almost as good as soap. http://ww.total.net/~jerryg/geowash9.html I am in the processes of developing a simple water tensision device will - post if it is successfull. Maybe I will post even if it is not successuful so you can tell me what needs improvement! Chris Gupta At 01:45 PM 8/31/98 +0200, you wrote: >Hi all ! This piece of news was published last Friday (August 28th) in the >French daily paper Liberation, written by its Seoul correspondant Stephane >Lagarde. A quick Net search seems to indicate the news has not been relayed >yet by American media. Excerpts from the article : > >"Researchers from ShindongBangs Corporation, a partner of Daewoo >Electronics, announced they have a process that transforms water into a >cleansing agent. 7 years of research and 3 million $ were necessary. The >process is called Midas, a name from Greek mythology, "because changing the >nature of water is God's domain", said inventor Kim Hee-Jung." (snip) > >"The secret of this discovery is well kept so far. Kim Hee-Jung only >provides general comments. "Water passes through a valve covered with >electrodes. Electric shocks transform matter. Water thus catalyzed has the >same properties as a detergent." (snip) > >"Tests have been done in front of journalists and engineers. It works." (snip) > >"It's not a first attempt for ShindongBangs. Earler this year, its factories >produced a desinfectant and an insecticide without chemistry, using the same >water catalyzing process. The desinfectant is presently used in several >Korean hospitals. University of Seoul's Department of Medicine even >recommended its use for the prevention of liver cancer. For the insecticide, >results are less evident. "The system is costly and farmers cannot afford >it" admits the company." > >"The invention was originally developed by a small venture company, Kyungwon >Enterprise Co. It comes as a breath of oxygen for crisis laden Korea. Big >conglomerates smelled the potential and battled to acquire the license, but >Daewoo were first on the line and wants to make it the biggest Korean export >in 1999. After a series of articles in local dailies, the company is >overwhelmed by calls.Chang-In-Sang, spokes-person for Daewoo Electronics, >tries to calm the enthusiasm. "We have tests to do in September and we must >down-size the system to integrate it in ordinary washing machines." > >"If all goes well, the revolutionary machines will be on sale early next >year. Korea already exports 2 million out of the 47 million washing machines >sold each year, and hopes with this system to multiply that number by 10." >(end of article excerpts) > >Now, some footnotes of mine : > >1 / Electrically "magnetized", "activated", "dynamized", "structured" waters >have been around since the beginning of 20th century. So far they were >distinctly fringe affairs, well outside mainstream science Now, if an >industrial giant like Daewoo gets into the act, the whole field could reach >a new level of recognition. High time ! > >2 / Back in 1959, French water researcher Jeanne Rousseau took a patent (for >France, Germany, Switzerland and UK) on a vortex device (2 rotors with >vertical axes turning in opposinte directions) which produced water that >could clean dirty laundry in 5 minutes without detergent. Cleansing and >toxin elimination effects were also found on human subjects - on skin, >intestines, bladder. Development was begun, then interrupted due to >administrative hassles and threats of lawsuits for "illegal practice of >medicine", and Ms Rousseau was financially ruined. (Now she's a charming old >lady and mayor of her little town in Brittany, and she's not involved any >more. The patents are public domain). > >3 / The Korean process reminds me (except for the insecticide claim) of the >Japanese and Korean devices for "Microwater" or "Superoxyde water", that >produce 2 kinds of water, alkaline water for human consumption and acid >water for cleansing and antiseptic properties. Bit of a patent rip-off >somewhere ? > >4 / BTW, Jacques Benveniste once told me that he had tried lots of >"activated waters" in his experiments of electromagnetic "memory imprinting" >on water, that he never noticed any effect, except for this Japanese >Microwater device, whose alkaline water definitely enhances the effect... > >Well, there's no end to water's wonder stories ! > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Jean-Pierre Lentin >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To leave this list, email > with the body text: leave keelynet > WWW based join and leave forms and KeelyNet list archives > are at http://dallastexas.net/keelynet/ > ------------------------------------------------------------- > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 27 14:56:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA17010; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 14:55:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 14:55:21 -0700 From: rvanspaa@vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Third time's a charm. Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:56:38 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <360fb3fd.49331620@mail-hub> References: <199809271041.GAA30427@fh102.infi.net> In-Reply-To: <199809271041.GAA30427@fh102.infi.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1gCH_.0.f94.8Hh3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6673 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 27 Sep 1998 06:44:31 -0500, Meat Truck wrote: [snip] > Searl states: There are two prime states within nature, energy and >matter. Nature tends to be binary in its actions .. Thus within the >expression of energy we have kinetic and potential energies. Within >electrical energy we find an active state in the magnetic field and a >passive state in the electric field. This corresponds to the kinetic energy >of charge movement through space and the potential energy of charge storage >in space. > Now an electric field can cause charge movement through space in which >case its potential or voltage is diminished. If this charge movement is at >right angles to a magnetic field that field also exerts a force on the >charge,which is at right angles to both the fields involved. But a magnetic >field does not exert a force on a potential electric field in which no >charges are moving. > Searl states that nature sometimes makes a triangle arrangement with >its actions or functions. An electric field at right angles to a magnetic >field can produce motion at right angles to both fields. If one of these >fields reverses direction so does the force that causes the motion. But if >both fields simultaneously change direction the force that causes the >motion does not. The negative of a negative is a positive. Sincerly, H >Norris mnorris@akron.infi.net None of the above quoted text differs in any way that I can identify from accepted theory. What does Searl have to gain by teaching what is already well known? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 27 20:10:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA26125; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:09:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:09:08 -0700 Message-ID: <360EFDEC.3B96BACC@dcache.net> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 23:09:32 -0400 From: James J Jiamachello X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, keelynet@dallastexas.net Subject: Re: Amazing maze/Law of Squares References: <199809270607.CAA00180@fh102.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9IZ18.0.2O6.Ktl3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6674 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Morris Meat Truck wrote: Snip > Speaking of odds and magic squares the following facts might seem > amazing. Given a magic square of 100 numbers, how many different unique > solutions could there be? Once the method of construction is learned it is > readily evident that over 37,000 trillion, Snip One of the most elegant approach to magic squares is at: http://www.grogono.com/magic/ Check it out Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 28 03:35:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA04598; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 03:34:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 03:34:29 -0700 Message-ID: <360F66FD.7F0777CC@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:37:49 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Magnetic/electric/gravitational doppler effect... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"k3ja2.0.m71.qOs3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6675 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I once read in a book that says the speed of magnetic/electric/gravitational field formation is C. If that's true, then a fast-moving field source (mass, charge, or magnetic pole) would have a doppler effect. And an object at the front of the source would experience less force (from the field) than the same object at the back of the source (equal distances for both instances). If the above if true, then something like this can be made: (M)--> (M)--> (M)--> (M)--> (M)--> etc. The diagram represents an infinite number of identical mass objects in an infinite long line, each object equally distant to the next one and the previous one. Normally (when they are at rest) each object would get the same amount of force from the front object and the back object. When the objects are moving, each object would get more force from the front object than the back object, resulting in acceleration and increased energy. The faster they go, the greater acceleration they get. This self-accelerating "device" can be made into a wheel, so that each object chases the one in front of it. And it can be made with other kinds of field sources, such as magnets and charges, instead of mass, but the forces have to be attraction forces, otherwise, the device would get negative acceleration (slow down). I know in the universe exists a kind of star system such that two massive stars orbit the center of the two stars. If they are simply made of atoms they should accelerate due to the effect described above. I don't know what the stars are made of and what speed they have, but I would very much like to know the answer. PS. If what I said is unclear, I will describe in more detail. - Jim T. Lin By the way, can I include images in the emails? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 28 09:35:16 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA29793; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:30:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:30:19 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 01:17:46 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"JlGhb2.0.9H7.Pcx3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6676 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:09 AM 9/25/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 12:58 AM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote: >>At 09:25 AM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>In <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com>, on 09/23/98 >>> at 02:55 AM, Lee Markland said: >>> >>>> In contrast with the force of gravity, the strength of the mystery >>>>force does not decline proportionally to the inverse square of a space >>>>craft's distance from the Sun but at a constant (linear) rate; this >>>>argues against the force being a gravitational effect of the Sun. >>> >>>Hmmm, smells like aether to me. (A slight drag was a >>>requirement for the aether to exist. Since they could detect >>>no drag, the aeither didn't exist) >>> >>>-Charlie- >> >>That would be interesting, to obtain verifiable proof of the aether. Of >>course it would have to be verified independently using different >experiments. >> >>Anyway Silvertooth has supposedly done that and the late Stephen Marinov >>wrote a paper on it. >> >>Still in all, we can only specualte. >> >>Aether, tired light, push gravity from outside the system, misconception of >>the doppler effect. >> >>In fact it seems to me that it would be profitable drawing up a list of all >>possible causes for the "apparent" slowing of the spacecraft, regardless of >>whether or not the speculation fits within the framerwork of conventional >>physics. >> >>Lee >> >> >>I read your last post with great interest. I to have studdied the nature >od mater with reguard to higher states of energy. I have developed a >theory of energy mater states I call "Pure Non-manifest Energy" or PNE. > >This energy is hinter at in all manifest states due to conversion, ie, >kenitic, thermal, electromagnetic. > >All these energied can be converted, back and forth with some losses, of >course. But these simple facts point the way to a nutral of transitional >modle of energy that can be expressed in multiple forms. > >In my work with hydrogen I have captured this energy. I can measure it, >store it, and use it at will. Buy the way it occupies space, which then >theoretically outer space can be full of it. If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival speed and time at the neutral point. At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft towards the moon. If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of the gravitational force of the sun? The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of hydrogen is akin to oil floating on water. >Here is a url of one of my postings. > >http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html > >Please give me a read on this page > > >All the best > >TR Knudtson > >you can find much more on the web by Search; Browns' Gas > >I am one of the 7 original researchers on this project. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 28 11:51:21 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA25994; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:47:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:47:41 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <2cf04103.360fd9b0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:47:12 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Magnetic/electric/gravitational doppler effect... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"KHbdf3.0.1M6.Cdz3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6677 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/28/98 3:37:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jimtc@cm1.hinet.net writes: << I once read in a book that says the speed of magnetic/electric/gravitational field formation is C. If that's true, then a fast-moving field source (mass, charge, or magnetic pole) would have a doppler effect. And an object at the front of the source would experience less force (from the field) than the same object at the back of the source (equal distances for both instances). If the above if true, then something like this can be made: (M)--> (M)--> (M)--> (M)--> (M)--> etc. The diagram represents an infinite number of identical mass objects in an infinite long line, each object equally distant to the next one and the previous one. Normally (when they are at rest) each object would get the same amount of force from the front object and the back object. When the objects are moving, each object would get more force from the front object than the back object, resulting in acceleration and increased energy.>> Certainly you would expect this to be true if the objects are *accelerating*, (but if they are only moving at a constant velocity, then in the rest frame of the objects, nothing is happening). And at some force levels and acceleration, the difference in force levels on one object could be greater than the force you are using to accelerate the object? <> I think this is another way of looking the problem of one star experiencing a force coming from where the other star was some time ago (the distance apart divided by c). This results in a torque on the star system. This is a problem that has never been explained in a way I could understand. <> Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 28 13:26:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08077; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:22:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:22:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:24:20 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: gradiometer for sale? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"AGqUz2.0.1-1.U0_3s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6678 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anyone interested in helping this person below? Email them directly, since they are NOT subscribed here. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 17:04:25 +-1000 From: Tim Strachan To: "'billb@eskimo.com'" Subject: gradiometer Hi Bill Saw your interesting circuit diagram, and was wondering if you or anyone has any of these devices pre-assembled, not being much in the way of an electronics whiz! I'd be happy to pay a reasonable fee. I'm a dowser/acupuncturist/writer/etc. with a great interest in taking the dowsing phenomenon further. Regards Tim Strachan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 28 18:56:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA19913; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:51:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:51:01 -0700 Message-ID: <36103D67.6840@keelynet.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:52:39 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker@keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KeelyNet@DallasTexas.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Super Efficient Engine Techniques Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kA4ws1.0.2t4.4q34s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6679 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! Pat Bailey sent this interesting piece of info out about doctoring engines to vastly improve their mileage and horsepower; ================= > DR. BAILEY,Here is something that I have developed > and haven't a clue what to do with it at the moment. > I would be grateful for any input. > Thank you for your time....Don Keiser I would advertize it to all my friends interested in such things, and keep pushing!!! I will forward this BCC to all those on my Energy_Send List. Thanks! - PB. ------- From: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/7667/invention.html SUPER EFFICIENT ENGINE HELLO....My name is DON KEISER... This concept first entered my mind when I was working on the 1981 Cadillac 8-6-4 system. They achieved some impressive results merely by shutting off the fuel, (by electro-mechanically disabling the intake valves to 4 cylinders). At the time I was operating the Allen Smart Scope for the company I worked for and doing all of the computer diagnostic work for them. The problem was, the Allen Scope thought that every sensor was bad in that system. It interfaced poorly with the 8-6-4 system. So in an effort to understand the system better, I took advantage of an opening at the General Motors Training Center in Dallas, TX, and went there in an effort to learn more about the 8-6-4 system. To my dismay, everyone there treated it as a white elephant and told me that no-one really understood it and their policy was to just replace parts until fixed and not try to learn the system because it was fraught with problems and even Cadillac had relegated it to the scrap heap. This only heightened my desire to comprehend this system. Also,there was one of these cars waiting for me back at the shop. It had been to various other shops and the dealer but would barely make it around the block. So I bought the factory service manual and put myself through 8-6-4 school. It is a fascinating system. But it set me to wondering just how far improvements to the internal combustion process could go. And lo and behold after 3 years of continually racking my brain, I have developed the most significant advance to the internal combustion engine since it's inception. (please pardon my modesty) And when you visit the link below you will see that the former HEV Manager at MIT believes this concept to be SUPER EFFICIENT. THIS ENGINE WILL: 1. Double the fuel mileage on any engine. 2. Reduce emissions by 1/2 3. Increase power by at least 1/3 HEV PROJECT at MIT http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/7667/mit.html where this engine is already listed. The environmental and economic implications are overwhelming. If you want to discuss these modifications in detail E-MAIL ME at the address below. Email: engine@technologist.com -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 28 19:15:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA28392; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:13:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:13:39 -0700 Message-ID: <36105F18.A5E4DC59@chorus.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:16:24 -0700 From: Pat Fleming Reply-To: pfleming@chorus.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: keelynet@dallastexas.net Subject: Re: Amazing maze/Law of Squares References: <199809270607.CAA00180@fh102.infi.net> <360EFDEC.3B96BACC@dcache.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"85jMK2.0.Xx6.J944s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6680 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Please remove this address from your distribution list. My son provided it when he should not have ........Thank you ************************************************************************************* James J Jiamachello wrote: > Hello Morris > > Meat Truck wrote: > > Snip > > > Speaking of odds and magic squares the following facts might seem > > amazing. Given a magic square of 100 numbers, how many different unique > > solutions could there be? Once the method of construction is learned it is > > readily evident that over 37,000 trillion, > > Snip > > One of the most elegant approach to magic squares is > at: > > http://www.grogono.com/magic/ > > Check it out > > Jim From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 28 19:16:07 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA28573; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:14:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:14:27 -0700 Message-ID: <36105F44.A6CB0C87@chorus.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:17:08 -0700 From: Pat Fleming Reply-To: pfleming@chorus.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery References: <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"K_qiD1.0.L-6.2A44s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6681 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Please remove this address from your distribution list. My son provided it when he should not have ........Thank you ******************************************************************************** Lee Markland wrote: > At 06:09 AM 9/25/98 -0700, you wrote: > >At 12:58 AM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote: > >>At 09:25 AM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote: > >>>In <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com>, on 09/23/98 > >>> at 02:55 AM, Lee Markland said: > >>> > >>>> In contrast with the force of gravity, the strength of the mystery > >>>>force does not decline proportionally to the inverse square of a space > >>>>craft's distance from the Sun but at a constant (linear) rate; this > >>>>argues against the force being a gravitational effect of the Sun. > >>> > >>>Hmmm, smells like aether to me. (A slight drag was a > >>>requirement for the aether to exist. Since they could detect > >>>no drag, the aeither didn't exist) > >>> > >>>-Charlie- > >> > >>That would be interesting, to obtain verifiable proof of the aether. Of > >>course it would have to be verified independently using different > >experiments. > >> > >>Anyway Silvertooth has supposedly done that and the late Stephen Marinov > >>wrote a paper on it. > >> > >>Still in all, we can only specualte. > >> > >>Aether, tired light, push gravity from outside the system, misconception of > >>the doppler effect. > >> > >>In fact it seems to me that it would be profitable drawing up a list of all > >>possible causes for the "apparent" slowing of the spacecraft, regardless of > >>whether or not the speculation fits within the framerwork of conventional > >>physics. > >> > >>Lee > >> > >> > >>I read your last post with great interest. I to have studdied the nature > >od mater with reguard to higher states of energy. I have developed a > >theory of energy mater states I call "Pure Non-manifest Energy" or PNE. > > > >This energy is hinter at in all manifest states due to conversion, ie, > >kenitic, thermal, electromagnetic. > > > >All these energied can be converted, back and forth with some losses, of > >course. But these simple facts point the way to a nutral of transitional > >modle of energy that can be expressed in multiple forms. > > > >In my work with hydrogen I have captured this energy. I can measure it, > >store it, and use it at will. Buy the way it occupies space, which then > >theoretically outer space can be full of it. > > If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of > hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be > sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. > > NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its > spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. > > In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth > weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it > and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square > law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival > speed and time at the neutral point. > > At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the > gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft towards > the moon. > > If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations > would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have > got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. > > Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would > introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And > wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen > molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of > the gravitational force of the sun? > > The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its > weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of hydrogen > is akin to oil floating on water. > > >Here is a url of one of my postings. > > > >http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html > > > >Please give me a read on this page > > > > > >All the best > > > >TR Knudtson > > > >you can find much more on the web by Search; Browns' Gas > > > >I am one of the 7 original researchers on this project. > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 28 19:34:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA05297; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:33:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:33:21 -0700 Message-ID: <00ad01bdeb51$d58e6800$e458b1cf@default> From: "Wayne Muntz" To: Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:35:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"NyNOR1.0.bI1.lR44s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6682 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here's an explanation from a physicist who seems to know what he's talking about. http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9809070 Wayne ========================================================= -----Original Message----- From: Lee Markland To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 11:35 AM Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery >At 06:09 AM 9/25/98 -0700, you wrote: >>At 12:58 AM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>At 09:25 AM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>>In <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com>, on 09/23/98 >>>> at 02:55 AM, Lee Markland said: >>>> >>>>> In contrast with the force of gravity, the strength of the mystery >>>>>force does not decline proportionally to the inverse square of a space >>>>>craft's distance from the Sun but at a constant (linear) rate; this >>>>>argues against the force being a gravitational effect of the Sun. >>>> >>>>Hmmm, smells like aether to me. (A slight drag was a >>>>requirement for the aether to exist. Since they could detect >>>>no drag, the aeither didn't exist) >>>> >>>>-Charlie- >>> >>>That would be interesting, to obtain verifiable proof of the aether. Of >>>course it would have to be verified independently using different >>experiments. >>> >>>Anyway Silvertooth has supposedly done that and the late Stephen Marinov >>>wrote a paper on it. >>> >>>Still in all, we can only specualte. >>> >>>Aether, tired light, push gravity from outside the system, misconception of >>>the doppler effect. >>> >>>In fact it seems to me that it would be profitable drawing up a list of all >>>possible causes for the "apparent" slowing of the spacecraft, regardless of >>>whether or not the speculation fits within the framerwork of conventional >>>physics. >>> >>>Lee >>> >>> >>>I read your last post with great interest. I to have studdied the nature >>od mater with reguard to higher states of energy. I have developed a >>theory of energy mater states I call "Pure Non-manifest Energy" or PNE. >> >>This energy is hinter at in all manifest states due to conversion, ie, >>kenitic, thermal, electromagnetic. >> >>All these energied can be converted, back and forth with some losses, of >>course. But these simple facts point the way to a nutral of transitional >>modle of energy that can be expressed in multiple forms. >> >>In my work with hydrogen I have captured this energy. I can measure it, >>store it, and use it at will. Buy the way it occupies space, which then >>theoretically outer space can be full of it. > >If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of >hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be >sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. > >NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its >spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. > >In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth >weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it >and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square >law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival >speed and time at the neutral point. > >At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the >gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft towards >the moon. > >If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations >would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have >got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. > >Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would >introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And >wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen >molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of >the gravitational force of the sun? > >The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its >weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of hydrogen >is akin to oil floating on water. > > > > > >>Here is a url of one of my postings. >> >>http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html >> >>Please give me a read on this page >> >> >>All the best >> >>TR Knudtson >> >>you can find much more on the web by Search; Browns' Gas >> >>I am one of the 7 original researchers on this project. >> >> >> > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 28 20:17:59 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA28654; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:16:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:16:21 -0700 Message-ID: <024301bdeb57$4fe17660$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> From: "Bill Wallace" To: , Cc: Subject: Re: Amazing maze/Law of Squares Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:13:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"6R-dO.0.e_6.5454s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6683 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OH NO! Another young minds intro to new theories snuffed out! (grin) >Please remove this address from your distribution list. My son provided it when >he should not have ........Thank you >*************************************************************************** ********** > >James J Jiamachello wrote: > >> Hello Morris >> >> Meat Truck wrote: >> >> Snip >> >> > Speaking of odds and magic squares the following facts might seem >> > amazing. Given a magic square of 100 numbers, how many different unique >> > solutions could there be? Once the method of construction is learned it is >> > readily evident that over 37,000 trillion, >> >> Snip >> >> One of the most elegant approach to magic squares is >> at: >> >> http://www.grogono.com/magic/ >> >> Check it out >> >> Jim > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 28 21:04:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12810; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:02:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:02:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980928125914.00a74290@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:59:14 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: <00ad01bdeb51$d58e6800$e458b1cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"NZdVF1.0._73.nl54s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6684 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wonder what is causing the radiated wasted heat? Especially in the depths of absolute zero space. Lee At 09:35 PM 9/28/98 -0500, you wrote: >Here's an explanation from a physicist who seems to know what he's talking >about. > >http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9809070 > >Wayne >========================================================= > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Markland >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 11:35 AM >Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery > > >>At 06:09 AM 9/25/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>At 12:58 AM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>>At 09:25 AM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>>>In <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com>, on 09/23/98 >>>>> at 02:55 AM, Lee Markland said: >>>>> >>>>>> In contrast with the force of gravity, the strength of the mystery >>>>>>force does not decline proportionally to the inverse square of a space >>>>>>craft's distance from the Sun but at a constant (linear) rate; this >>>>>>argues against the force being a gravitational effect of the Sun. >>>>> >>>>>Hmmm, smells like aether to me. (A slight drag was a >>>>>requirement for the aether to exist. Since they could detect >>>>>no drag, the aeither didn't exist) >>>>> >>>>>-Charlie- >>>> >>>>That would be interesting, to obtain verifiable proof of the aether. Of >>>>course it would have to be verified independently using different >>>experiments. >>>> >>>>Anyway Silvertooth has supposedly done that and the late Stephen Marinov >>>>wrote a paper on it. >>>> >>>>Still in all, we can only specualte. >>>> >>>>Aether, tired light, push gravity from outside the system, misconception >of >>>>the doppler effect. >>>> >>>>In fact it seems to me that it would be profitable drawing up a list of >all >>>>possible causes for the "apparent" slowing of the spacecraft, regardless >of >>>>whether or not the speculation fits within the framerwork of conventional >>>>physics. >>>> >>>>Lee >>>> >>>> >>>>I read your last post with great interest. I to have studdied the nature >>>od mater with reguard to higher states of energy. I have developed a >>>theory of energy mater states I call "Pure Non-manifest Energy" or PNE. >>> >>>This energy is hinter at in all manifest states due to conversion, ie, >>>kenitic, thermal, electromagnetic. >>> >>>All these energied can be converted, back and forth with some losses, of >>>course. But these simple facts point the way to a nutral of transitional >>>modle of energy that can be expressed in multiple forms. >>> >>>In my work with hydrogen I have captured this energy. I can measure it, >>>store it, and use it at will. Buy the way it occupies space, which then >>>theoretically outer space can be full of it. >> >>If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of >>hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be >>sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. >> >>NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its >>spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. >> >>In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth >>weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it >>and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square >>law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival >>speed and time at the neutral point. >> >>At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the >>gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft towards >>the moon. >> >>If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations >>would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have >>got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. >> >>Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would >>introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And >>wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen >>molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of >>the gravitational force of the sun? >> >>The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its >>weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of hydrogen >>is akin to oil floating on water. >> >> >> >> >> >>>Here is a url of one of my postings. >>> >>>http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html >>> >>>Please give me a read on this page >>> >>> >>>All the best >>> >>>TR Knudtson >>> >>>you can find much more on the web by Search; Browns' Gas >>> >>>I am one of the 7 original researchers on this project. >>> >>> >>> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 28 21:25:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA20592; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:22:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:22:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:34:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Zack Widup Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jxJ1K2.0.e15.2264s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6685 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Lee Markland wrote: > > > >This energy is hinter at in all manifest states due to conversion, ie, > >kenitic, thermal, electromagnetic. > > > >All these energied can be converted, back and forth with some losses, of > >course. But these simple facts point the way to a nutral of transitional > >modle of energy that can be expressed in multiple forms. > > > >In my work with hydrogen I have captured this energy. I can measure it, > >store it, and use it at will. Buy the way it occupies space, which then > >theoretically outer space can be full of it. > > If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of > hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be > sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. > I don't think he meant outer space is filled with hydrogen - I think he meant it's filled with the energy he discusses. BTW, does ANYBODY know where I could obtain a copy of "The Sea of Energy In Which The Earth Floats" by T. Henry Moray? Zack From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 28 21:36:34 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA26070; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:34:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:34:51 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:45:08 -0600 To: freenrg-l From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Near the Eye of the Storm Resent-Message-ID: <"q1L2r2.0.CN6.gD64s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6686 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, to sum it all up: New Orleans was a very lucky city. But the Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida Gulf coast areas were not so lucky. As of Saturday evening, the National Weather Service and most local weathercasts were predicting Hurricane Georges' landfall at or very near to New Orleans. New Orleans averages three feet below sea level. The City is somewhat bowl-shaped, with the Mississippi River to the south of the main area of the city (further south is the Gulf of Mexico), and to the north is Lake Pontchartrain. To the east is more Gulf shoreline and smaller lakes. Swamps are to the west. For all practical purposes, the City is an island -- a below sea-level island at that. We are told that New Orleans has the most sophisticated pumping system in the world -- engineers from overseas often visit our city to observe our pumping stations. However, these stations have their limits in terms of "inches" of fallen water that they can pump per hour. I understand they can pump out 2 inches of rain in the first two hours and 1/2 inch of rain per hour after that. The problem is that the rainwater is pumped from the streets of the City out into the lake to the north of the City. But the hurricane threatened to drive lake water into the City from the north and Mississippi River water would be driver UPriver by the storm surge. While the City does have a levee protection operation, this levee system can work to KEEP the water IN as well as out if the rainfall becomes too heavy for the pumps to handle. Our famous "once-in-a-century" May flood of several years ago (we've had several such "once-in-a-century" rain-floods in the past several years) exceeded 14 inches of rain within a 24-hour period in some areas of the City!! I recall attempting to move my automobile to higher ground at the height of one of those rain storms -- and I can truthfully say that the "density" of the rainfall was SO intense, that one had a difficult time finding air to breathe "between the raindrops"! Anyway, the City feared the worst: as Hurricane George approached the mouth of the Mississippi River, the water would be driven UPriver and all surrounding lakes would dump overflow water into the City PLUS excessive rainfall predicted from the Hurricane carrying heavy moisture-laden water from the Gulf of Mexico. Tens of thousands of New Orleanians had fled the City over the past several days --- the interstate system was reported to be a 25-plus mile traffic jam as people fled east, north, and west. Unfortunately many fled to Hattiesburg, Mississippi which, as it turned out, lay directly in the path of the storm. The Louisiana Superdome and the New Orleans Convention Center were turned into makeshift shelters at the last minute. Over 13,000 people fled to the Superdome for shelter. Anyway, Saturday evening the "dean" of weathermen -- Nash Roberts -- came on television (the same station which my friend, engineer Ralph Hartwell works for, BTW). I can remember the hand-drawn, primitive-by-today's-standard graphics of weatherman Nash Roberts back in the 1950s --- and he was considered a middle-aged man THEN. Nash must be in his 80s now, and he rarely makes a TV appearance anymore. Nash Roberts has accurately predicted the correct path of so many hurricanes over the decades, that many New Orleanians' sets of eyes were on his latest weather report, the results of which could imply so much to the immediate welfare of the City. Using the same, primitive hand-drawn map of the Gulf and area around New Orleans, Nash was (to my knowledge) the FIRST person to publicly predict that the hurricane appeared to be ever-so-slightly jogging to the North -- it had been on a relentless Northwest path headed directly for New Orleans. Because the vortex action of the Hurricane causes it to continually vibrate and jog from side to side as it moves, the precise prediction of direction and final landfall is difficult, even when studying multiple satellite images. But Nash Roberts said that the Hurricane would probably landfall along the Mississippi Gulf Coast and just miss New Orleans by landing slightly to the East. As it turned out, he was right. By about 60 miles, New Orleans escaped disaster. The City still received high winds; the lakefront did suffer wave and area flooding; many lakeshore restaurants/homes were severely damaged; a number of stately 100+ year-old live oak trees were uprooted along St. Charles Avenue in the heart of the Crescent City --- and are "live" no more. Power outages have been reported across the City. But the damage is slight by comparison if the storm had scored a direct hit on the City. Flood estimates from this scenario were estimated between 3-8 FEET depending upon the section of the City. So, we escaped the worst. The Gulf Coast was not so lucky. Although they are on higher ground than our City, areas around Mobile Bay reported over 15 INCHES of rainfall within a 24 hour period. This does not include swollen rivers from inland rainfall as the storm dumps Gulf water in central Mississippi and Alabama. ************* Personal note: After helping my parents blackjack around the base of their chimney and seal up their windows, sandbag doors, move damageables to higher levels, etc., I assisted my neighbors in the apartment building where I live move outdoor furniture and potted plants indoors. My own windows were then taped up, supplies were stocked, and I was prepared for the worst. At about 8:30pm Saturday night I sat back to watch TV and awaited the coming of the storm. Things seemed pretty well under control. BUT..... just at that moment, first a single stream, then another, then another, then DOZENS of rivulets of water began cascading from my ceiling across my living and dining room areas!!! It seems that my neighbor above had decided to fill his bathtub with water (as back up water in case the City's water system broke down) and he FORGOT(!) about the bathtub! Since his tub has no over-flow drain, and the marble tiling on the floor of his bathroom has no caulking, the overflow dutifully obeyed the Law of Gravitation and sought _lower_ ground: my apartment! I was running about like the proverbial "chicken" trying to sop up the constantly appearing ceiling leaks with every available container .... but, since it soon appeared hopeless and totally out-of-control, I ran upstairs to his 5th Floor penthouse apartment and banged on his door. He was oblivious to the problem! My apartment quickly became a "tropical RAINforest" sans wildlife (not counting the mold that will probably form under my wall-to-wall carpting!) To give you an idea of the extent of the "waterfall": I'm on the FOURTH floor. My neighbor on the FIRST floor beneath me (as well those living on the SECOND and THIRD floors) suffered extensive water damages. While two friends staying with my upstairs 'neighbor' were kind enough to bring down towels and blankets and helped to sop up the waterfall, the 'neighbor' himself would not come down (according to his two friends) and would not talk on the telephone. At this point my living/dining areas/furniture/walls are a mess, and the carpet is slowly drying out. I bring up this personal "experience" for its irony: I was spared the wrath of the hurricane but fell victim to an upstairs neighbor! Good olde Murphy of Murphy's Law fame --- when you least expect him, he WILL strike! Moral of the story: "Expect the worst. And if it doesn't happen, something else from left field can come along and still catch you by surprise!" **************** Your water-soaked 'reporter' from the Big Easy......home to jazz, jambalaya, and cajun mudbugs --- Laissez faire les bon temps roule'..... Evan Soule' :-) What did the fish say when he hit a concrete wall? "Dam". From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 29 05:23:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA27992; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 05:20:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 05:20:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3610BB11.7271762F@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:48:49 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic/electric/gravitational doppler effect... References: <2cf04103.360fd9b0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LBtMJ.0.5r6.72D4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6687 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keasy@aol.com wrote: > Certainly you would expect this to be true if the objects are *accelerating*, > (but if they are only moving at a constant velocity, then in the rest frame of > the objects, nothing is happening). And at some force levels and > acceleration, the difference in force levels on one object could be greater > than the force you are using to accelerate the object? I don't understand why you think this only to be true when the objects are *accelerating*. Maybe I didn't state it clearly that I was assuming that the formation or changes in a force field travels at and only at light speed, just like sound in air travels at a constant speed regardless of the speed of the sound-producing device. So if something is traveling at light speed, for example, an object in front of it should get no force (from the force-field of the light-speed object). Keasy@aol.com wrote: > I think this is another way of looking the problem of one star experiencing a > force coming from where the other star was some time ago (the distance apart > divided by c). This results in a torque on the star system. This is a > problem that has never been explained in a way I could understand. Maybe they would accelerate up to light speed (but never reaching)? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 29 05:23:53 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA28054; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 05:20:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 05:20:25 -0700 Message-ID: <3610C0A2.D116F13D@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:12:34 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Third time's a charm. References: <015801bdea45$59d646e0$ba98a8cf@hh2152186.www.surfsouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"f9nlu3.0.-r6.82D4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6688 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Wallace wrote: > > So he says to use neodymium, with nylon, well I suppose the next step for > verification is for you to find out their rotational angles and lets see how > it matches up. Where would you look? Doesn't Searl use neodymium because "it has extra electrons and tends to emit them"? And use nylon because it restricts electron flow so that they(electrons) won't destroy your house? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 29 06:40:09 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA21685; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:38:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:38:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3610E24D.A0DE042@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:36:13 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: An idea about a special transformer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cL-B62.0.lI5.jBE4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6689 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is how I think a tranformer works: An AC magnetic field (magnetic field that changes over time) is started by the primary winding. When the field extends to the secondary winding, a voltage difference forms at the secondary winding in respond to the change in magnetic field strength. And this voltage difference creates another magnetic field, and this field extends back to the primary to cancel the original field. The more load the secondary has, the stronger the secondary field (the field the secondary creates). Because it takes time for magnetic fields to reach the other side, we can make the path (of magnetic field) so long or the frequency so high that the secondary field doesn't cancel the primary field but enhance it. Such transformer would be OU. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 29 09:41:45 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA04548; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:35:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:35:21 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <1cf7c5d5.3611092d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:22:05 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"6kCve2.0.-61.8nG4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6690 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/29/98 6:41:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jimtc@cm1.hinet.net writes: << This is how I think a tranformer works: An AC magnetic field (magnetic field that changes over time) is started by the primary winding. When the field extends to the secondary winding, a voltage difference forms at the secondary winding in respond to the change in magnetic field strength. And this voltage difference creates another magnetic field, and this field extends back to the primary to cancel the original field. The more load the secondary has, the stronger the secondary field (the field the secondary creates). Because it takes time for magnetic fields to reach the other side, we can make the path (of magnetic field) so long or the frequency so high that the secondary field doesn't cancel the primary field but enhance it. Such transformer would be OU. >> I agree this is an interesting idea and in fact posted a related proposal a month or so ago. One thing about this that is a little confusing, at least to me, is that the B fields in a transformer must be continuous, (if we believe Maxwell's equations) so it is not clear how a change in one winding is eventually felt in the other winding -- ie your "it takes time for magnetic fields to reach the other side" statement (especially on an iron core with the windings separated). I think there is more going on here than conventional theory addresses. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 29 11:59:35 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA10810; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:51:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:51:52 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:53:24 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnetic behemoth discovered Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"EZKvK3.0.be2.6nI4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6692 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Science & news brief: ASTRONOMY ~MAGNETIC BEHEMOTH DISCOVERED~ WASHINGTON - Astronomers have found evidence of what they called the most powerful magnetic field ever seen in the universe. They said they had seen the afterglow from a magnetar, which is a neutron star that has a mag- netic field billions of times stronger than the Earth's. This one, they said, was 100 times stronger than any magnetic field ever seen in the universe. They found it in the Milky Way, about 15,000 light years from Earth. -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 29 14:25:33 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA23503; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:16:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:16:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980929005117.00a6e280@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:51:17 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"JD-iz3.0.7l5.xuK4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6693 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:34 PM 9/28/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Lee Markland wrote: > >> > >> >This energy is hinter at in all manifest states due to conversion, ie, >> >kenitic, thermal, electromagnetic. >> > >> >All these energied can be converted, back and forth with some losses, of >> >course. But these simple facts point the way to a nutral of transitional >> >modle of energy that can be expressed in multiple forms. >> > >> >In my work with hydrogen I have captured this energy. I can measure it, >> >store it, and use it at will. Buy the way it occupies space, which then >> >theoretically outer space can be full of it. >> >> If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of >> hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be >> sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. >> > >I don't think he meant outer space is filled with hydrogen - I think he >meant it's filled with the energy he discusses. Then in what form is this "energy". Is it static? Is there some form of static energy which just lays there occupying space. What is energy? How is it created? What form(s) does it take? What happens to it after it is created? Does it just hang around the neighborhood like some generation X'er or does it move on, being propelled outwards in an expanding sphere from its source? I don't think anything energetic hangs around the neighborhood, unless it has form and substance - i.e. matter. Matter has energy potential, but matter isn't energy. Something has to happen to it, before it can realize it's energy potential. A boulder setting on a hillside isn't realizing any energy, but once set in motion will realize its energy potential. Is energy dynamic? Or is it static? Flowing water is not energy, it is potential energy. It flows only because of gravitational force and its potential is realized when it meets resistance, or it's molecular structure is altered and the molecules are then combusted. But water itself is not energy. Something has to happen to it to convert it to energy. > >BTW, does ANYBODY know where I could obtain a copy of "The Sea of Energy >In Which The Earth Floats" by T. Henry Moray? > >Zack > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 29 15:08:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA16574; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:04:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:04:23 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 04:06:05 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UYJMQ3.0.i24.cbL4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6694 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:17 AM 9/28/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 06:09 AM 9/25/98 -0700, you wrote: >>At 12:58 AM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>At 09:25 AM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>>In <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com>, on 09/23/98 >>>> at 02:55 AM, Lee Markland said: >>>> Dear Lee, You seem to suffer from selective reading, in that you often miss the point by focusing in on one thing in a statement that is part of the discussion but not the core issue. I simply state that I have worked in hydrogen, Hydrogen and Oxygen are simply a medium where energy can be stored. Other than this fact, it has little if anything to do with what I had written you about. Second you subjected my comments previous conversations, to some how infer that I thought space is full of hydrogen. None of this is the point. The energy is of what I speak. Non manifest, PURE ENERGY. The medium is of minor import, but the existence of this energy is. You say; If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of >hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be >sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. > >NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its >spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. > >In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth >weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it >and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square >law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival >speed and time at the neutral point. > >At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the >gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft towards >the moon. > >If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations >would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have >got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. > >Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would >introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And >wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen >molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of >the gravitational force of the sun? > >The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its >weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of hydrogen >is akin to oil floating on water. >>>>> In contrast with the force of gravity, the strength of the mystery >>>>>force does not decline proportionally to the inverse square of a space >>>>>craft's distance from the Sun but at a constant (linear) rate; this >>>>>argues against the force being a gravitational effect of the Sun. >>>> >>>>Hmmm, smells like aether to me. (A slight drag was a >>>>requirement for the aether to exist. Since they could detect >>>>no drag, the aeither didn't exist) >>>> >>>>-Charlie- >>> >>>That would be interesting, to obtain verifiable proof of the aether. Of >>>course it would have to be verified independently using different >>experiments. >>> >>>Anyway Silvertooth has supposedly done that and the late Stephen Marinov >>>wrote a paper on it. >>> >>>Still in all, we can only specualte. >>> >>>Aether, tired light, push gravity from outside the system, misconception of >>>the doppler effect. >>> >>>In fact it seems to me that it would be profitable drawing up a list of all >>>possible causes for the "apparent" slowing of the spacecraft, regardless of >>>whether or not the speculation fits within the framerwork of conventional >>>physics. >>> >>>Lee >>> >>> >>>I read your last post with great interest. I to have studdied the nature >>od mater with reguard to higher states of energy. I have developed a >>theory of energy mater states I call "Pure Non-manifest Energy" or PNE. >> >>This energy is hinter at in all manifest states due to conversion, ie, >>kenitic, thermal, electromagnetic. >> >>All these energied can be converted, back and forth with some losses, of >>course. But these simple facts point the way to a nutral of transitional >>modle of energy that can be expressed in multiple forms. >> >>In my work with hydrogen I have captured this energy. I can measure it, >>store it, and use it at will. Buy the way it occupies space, which then >>theoretically outer space can be full of it. > >If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of >hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be >sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. > >NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its >spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. > >In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth >weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it >and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square >law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival >speed and time at the neutral point. > >At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the >gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft towards >the moon. > >If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations >would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have >got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. > >Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would >introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And >wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen >molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of >the gravitational force of the sun? > >The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its >weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of hydrogen >is akin to oil floating on water. > > > > > >>Here is a url of one of my postings. >> >>http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html >> >>Please give me a read on this page >> >> >>All the best >> >>TR Knudtson >> >>you can find much more on the web by Search; Browns' Gas >> >>I am one of the 7 original researchers on this project. >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 29 17:31:44 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA19104; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:22:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:22:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:20:38 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ohz2C3.0.Og4.6dN4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6695 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'm sorry, it is a problem with being old, wearing trifocals and trying to read things from a computer screen, when use to a book. The scrolling bit gets me. I apologize for my selectivity. I still have a question about Pure Energy though. I'm suffering through the inability to conceptualize Pure Energy just hanging around. It just seems to me, in my unenlightened and addlepatted condition, that energy is what we get out of something after something happens. But I guess that is what the Free Energy conversation is all about - some source of pure energy, a pool so to speak, that can be tapped. There may be "something" in the universe, or there may not be, but if there is something then to my mind, it will requires some action. Like striking a match, or interrupting the flow of water with a paddle, something to cause a reaction. Lee >>>>> at 02:55 AM, Lee Markland said: >>>>> > >Dear Lee, > >You seem to suffer from selective reading, in that you often miss the point >by focusing in on one thing in a statement that is part of the discussion >but not the core issue. > >I simply state that I have worked in hydrogen, Hydrogen and Oxygen are >simply a medium where energy can be stored. Other than this fact, it has >little if anything to do with what I had written you about. Second you >subjected my comments previous conversations, to some how infer that I >thought space is full of hydrogen. > >None of this is the point. The energy is of what I speak. Non manifest, >PURE ENERGY. The medium is of minor import, but the existence of this >energy is. > >You say; > > >If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of >>hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be >>sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. > > >> >>NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its >>spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. >> >>In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth >>weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it >>and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square >>law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival >>speed and time at the neutral point. >> >>At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the >>gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft towards >>the moon. >> >>If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations >>would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have >>got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. >> >>Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would >>introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And >>wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen >>molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of >>the gravitational force of the sun? >> >>The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its >>weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of hydrogen >>is akin to oil floating on water. > > > > >>>>>> In contrast with the force of gravity, the strength of the mystery >>>>>>force does not decline proportionally to the inverse square of a space >>>>>>craft's distance from the Sun but at a constant (linear) rate; this >>>>>>argues against the force being a gravitational effect of the Sun. >>>>> >>>>>Hmmm, smells like aether to me. (A slight drag was a >>>>>requirement for the aether to exist. Since they could detect >>>>>no drag, the aeither didn't exist) >>>>> >>>>>-Charlie- >>>> >>>>That would be interesting, to obtain verifiable proof of the aether. Of >>>>course it would have to be verified independently using different >>>experiments. >>>> >>>>Anyway Silvertooth has supposedly done that and the late Stephen Marinov >>>>wrote a paper on it. >>>> >>>>Still in all, we can only specualte. >>>> >>>>Aether, tired light, push gravity from outside the system, misconception of >>>>the doppler effect. >>>> >>>>In fact it seems to me that it would be profitable drawing up a list of all >>>>possible causes for the "apparent" slowing of the spacecraft, regardless of >>>>whether or not the speculation fits within the framerwork of conventional >>>>physics. >>>> >>>>Lee >>>> >>>> >>>>I read your last post with great interest. I to have studdied the nature >>>od mater with reguard to higher states of energy. I have developed a >>>theory of energy mater states I call "Pure Non-manifest Energy" or PNE. >>> >>>This energy is hinter at in all manifest states due to conversion, ie, >>>kenitic, thermal, electromagnetic. >>> >>>All these energied can be converted, back and forth with some losses, of >>>course. But these simple facts point the way to a nutral of transitional >>>modle of energy that can be expressed in multiple forms. >>> >>>In my work with hydrogen I have captured this energy. I can measure it, >>>store it, and use it at will. Buy the way it occupies space, which then >>>theoretically outer space can be full of it. >> >>If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of >>hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be >>sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. >> >>NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its >>spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. >> >>In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth >>weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it >>and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square >>law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival >>speed and time at the neutral point. >> >>At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the >>gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft towards >>the moon. >> >>If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations >>would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have >>got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. >> >>Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would >>introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And >>wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen >>molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of >>the gravitational force of the sun? >> >>The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its >>weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of hydrogen >>is akin to oil floating on water. >> >> >> >> >> >>>Here is a url of one of my postings. >>> >>>http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html >>> >>>Please give me a read on this page >>> >>> >>>All the best >>> >>>TR Knudtson >>> >>>you can find much more on the web by Search; Browns' Gas >>> >>>I am one of the 7 original researchers on this project. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 29 18:10:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA15536; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:07:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:07:16 -0700 Message-ID: <01BDEC17.8F7D5300@av> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio_Vilela?= To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 02:10:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDEC17.8F7D5300" Resent-Message-ID: <"D5eKn3.0.bo3.1HO4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6696 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDEC17.8F7D5300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello everyone, Does anyone know if this anomaly has been checked on the Voyager probes? Best regards, Ant=F3nio Vilela ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDEC17.8F7D5300 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjkBAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAIAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tp bW8uY29tAFNNVFAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAZnJlZW5yZy1sQGVza2ltby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbScAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6RlJFRU5SRy1MQEVT S0lNTy5DT00AAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlo0AQSAAQAtAAAAUkU6 IE15c3RlcnkgRm9yY2UgaW4gU3BhY2UgUmVtYWlucyBhIE15c3RlcnkAjQ8BBYADAA4AAADOBwkA HgACAAoANAADAD8BASCAAwAOAAAAzgcJAB4AAgAJABUAAwAfAQEJgAEAIQAAAEQyNTVBMTlDMDc1 OEQyMTFCNkY2MDAwMDIxNTgzNDYyAM0GAQOQBgCEAgAAFAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkA AAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAwNK0Kg/svQEeAHAAAQAAAC0AAABSRTogTXlzdGVyeSBG b3JjZSBpbiBTcGFjZSBSZW1haW5zIGEgTXlzdGVyeQAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvewPKq2coVXT WAcR0rb2AAAhWDRiAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAFwAAAHZpbGVsYUBtYWls LnRlbGVwYWMucHQAAAMABhDuVSwwAwAHEGMAAAAeAAgQAQAAAGQAAABIRUxMT0VWRVJZT05FLERP RVNBTllPTkVLTk9XSUZUSElTQU5PTUFMWUhBU0JFRU5DSEVDS0VET05USEVWT1lBR0VSUFJPQkVT P0JFU1RSRUdBUkRTLEFOVPNOSU9WSUxFTEEAAgEJEAEAAADhAAAA3QAAAFYBAABMWkZ1fXKdJ/8A CgEPAhUCpAPkBesCgwBQEwNUAgBjaArAc2V07jIGAAbDAoMyA8YHEwKA/n0KgAjPCdkCgAqBDbEL YPRuZwHQNw3wCwoS8gHQECBIZWwUYCBldmUEkHkCIGUsCoUKhUQObweRAHAYwiBrbm/jB+AGkCB0 aAQAGjEDcVhseSARwAQgYgnhIOsRsAWQawmAIAIgGyEakCBWb3lhZwSQIHDTA2AcQHM/GRxCB5AF QFUU0GcLEXMZBkECMFzYJ2YzAwAYYFYDEBgwFmEKhRPxACJQAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAA BzDAA2X0Duy9AUAACDDAA2X0Duy9AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AAAamA== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDEC17.8F7D5300-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 29 18:35:14 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA29942; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:31:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:31:21 -0700 Message-ID: <36129523.E16B51B0@ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:31:31 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, "Jim T. Lin" Subject: Re: Magnetic/electric/gravitational doppler effect... References: <2cf04103.360fd9b0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SBk-I.0.jJ7.fdO4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6697 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keasy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/28/98 3:37:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > jimtc@cm1.hinet.net writes: > > << I once read in a book that says the speed of > magnetic/electric/gravitational field formation is C. If that's true, > then a fast-moving field source (mass, charge, or magnetic pole) would > have a doppler effect. And an object at the front of the source would > experience less force (from the field) than the same object at the back > of the source (equal distances for both instances). If the above if > true, then something like this can be made: > > (M)--> (M)--> (M)--> (M)--> (M)--> etc. > > The diagram represents an infinite number of identical mass objects in > an infinite long line, each object equally distant to the next one and > the previous one. Normally (when they are at rest) each object would get > the same amount of force from the front object and the back object. When > the objects are moving, each object would get more force from the front > object than the back object, resulting in acceleration and increased > energy.>> > > Certainly you would expect this to be true if the objects are *accelerating*, > (but if they are only moving at a constant velocity, then in the rest frame of > the objects, nothing is happening). And at some force levels and > acceleration, the difference in force levels on one object could be greater > than the force you are using to accelerate the object? > > < self-accelerating "device" can be made into a wheel, so that each object > chases the one in front of it. And it can be made with other kinds of > field sources, such as magnets and charges, instead of mass, but the > forces have to be attraction forces, otherwise, the device would get > negative acceleration (slow down). > > I know in the universe exists a kind of star system such that two > massive stars orbit the center of the two stars. If they are simply made > of atoms they should accelerate due to the effect described above. I > don't know what the stars are made of and what speed they have, but I > would very much like to know the answer.>> > > I think this is another way of looking the problem of one star experiencing a > force coming from where the other star was some time ago (the distance apart > divided by c). This results in a torque on the star system. This is a > problem that has never been explained in a way I could understand. Yes you are totally right, The same time delay effect can be used in one way transformers, water hammer devices and more, I have also in the past sent to the list an email about how auto acceleration should take place in a system of moving charges, I will send it again under this subject line. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 29 18:45:31 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24137; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3612958F.B65A68EA@ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:33:20 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jim T. Lin" , freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: How 'FREE-ENERGY' is implicated in CONVENTIONAL ELECTRODYNAMICS!!!!! Re: th] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------35BAF111C409AEFF9DA149F1" Resent-Message-ID: <"hrQF.0.1v5.fkO4s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6699 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------35BAF111C409AEFF9DA149F1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------35BAF111C409AEFF9DA149F1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by icarus.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA13565; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:10:45 +1200 (NZST) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06228; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:02:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:02:26 -0700 Message-ID: <35AD18AB.AFE3DEA4@ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:01:31 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How 'FREE-ENERGY' is implicated in CONVENTIONAL ELECTRODYNAMICS!!!!! Re: th References: <328e8acd.35ab74ff@aol.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C3D20768FF3204982BB6D570" Resent-Message-ID: <"Hjx6k1.0.1X1.ns0hr"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/20608 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C3D20768FF3204982BB6D570 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Look at the attached .gif and tell me what part is wrong, Is the magnetic field not as I say it is? Is it not in circles around the electron? do I have the direction of the field wrong? Does it not depend on relative velocity to the electron to see the magnetic field? Will the magnetic field not expand out and move from the electron (with acceleration)? Does a moving magnetic field not create a force on electrical charges? Is this force not at right angels to the motion and the magnetic field? Is the direction of the magnetic field and it's motion (due to expansion) not at right angels to each other and the electrons motion (they are not all three mutually orthogonal)? So why do you say that the two electrons with growing speed relative to each other not have a force that is increasing there relative velocity? John Berry Puthoff@aol.com wrote: > Unless I'm missing something in your description, the magnetic force vXB is > always perpendicular to v, and the power delivered to the particle is F . v. > Since the cross product means sin theta and the dot product means cosine > theta, the power delivered from the magnetic field (even if it is a > transformed electric field) is always zero. > > Hal Puthoff --------------C3D20768FF3204982BB6D570 Content-Type: image/gif; name="ELECTRIC.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ELECTRIC.GIF" R0lGODdhgALgAfcAAAAAAAAAgACAAACAgIAAAIAAgICAAICAgMDAwAAA/wD/AAD///8AAP8A ////AP///wAAAAAA+FDIMPj4+AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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vw1v+daxqVpob1GoQdZrZBUn+p0rAdboGxcy01oxHZ/Yd6YmQlrfMmqf/IJvDmqR8DJZzXUf JQukTwGjIXfyhsXx1Zwj1MXcchqgCAWrO8YRiwYXIKsyuaJdghmsJ8/yCbqZ0jGoLHYvvvrn K1ey6I4y3WnyINMyMR+l/e5gS+KxXBoa1IUkK9JfGwfihPFSavzn4zVMMWfzoBLwEWuzN+8k 0ipfN38zOZezOZ8zOqezOq8zO7f/szu/MzzHszzPMz3Xsz3fMz7nMxUT8mfqsz9/c93K8j8P dAkHNEEfdDE3LjQiNEN38jOPc0NHNFdKqkCDaQZLNEbHjghWtFvubkZ/NOr2cVRCNEgTtOPS bB26Xg6WNEunDElL8bDK3Eu3tD+HM/stsjUPMU3v9NPCoG5xNE8H9bsOpnUKtVFjrUqn20Uf NVMj7Ew3NVRHalRPNVVXtVVfNVZntVZvNVd3tVd/NViHtViPNVmXtVmfNVqntVqvNVu3tVu/ NVzHtVzPNV3XtV3fNV7ntV7vNV/3tV//NWAHtmAPNmEXtmEfNmIntmIvNmM3tmM/NmRHtmRP NmVXtmVfGDZmZ7ZmbzZnd7ZnfzZoh7ZojzZpN0pAAAA7 --------------C3D20768FF3204982BB6D570-- --------------35BAF111C409AEFF9DA149F1-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 29 18:58:12 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23561; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:37:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:37:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3612958C.E72517CB@ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:33:16 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jim T. Lin" , freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: How 'FREE-ENERGY' is implicated in CONVENTIONAL ELECTRODYNAMICS!!!!! Re: the Minato, John Berry's mesg.] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------74577C40A12F4615B2072CF5" Resent-Message-ID: <"dSSVA.0.ql5.NjO4s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6698 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------74577C40A12F4615B2072CF5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------74577C40A12F4615B2072CF5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (smartlst@mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by icarus.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA02595; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 02:17:25 +1200 (NZST) Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA30778; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:12:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:12:49 -0700 Message-ID: <35AC7271.83330FE5@ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 02:12:18 -0700 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: How 'FREE-ENERGY' is implicated in CONVENTIONAL ELECTRODYNAMICS!!!!! Re: the Minato, John Berry's mesg. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"u39ns1.0.oW7.WTsgr"@mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/20600 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com I challenge anyone to show that any part of this not totally in agreement with conventional electrodynamics, The physics of this are ALL totally conventional and only the realization that it predicts Free-Energy is not realized in convention. Ok, let me try again, an electric charge in motion has a magnetic field, in conventional electrodynamics motion is ALWAYS relative, so if there is relative motion between an observer and an electric charge there will be also an associated magnetic field, If the motion between the observer and the charge increases (no matter which is accelerating) the magnetic field from the charge will get stronger and expand, the expanding magnetic field creates a force on electric particles (in other words the moving magnetic field is creating an electric field) this electric force is in the direction of motion, if the observer is in fact an electric charge it will be accelerate or decelerate depending on if the two charges in relative motion and acceleration are of the same polarity or opposite. I do not have the abilities to put this into a mathematical formula, I know that if conventional electrodynamics is correct that this will work! I am not 'beating Faraday's/Lenz's law' to my knowledge, but it works on these principles of EM induction. You need to understand that in conventional electrodynamics motion relative to a magnetic field creates an electric field, and motion relative to a magnetic field creates an electric field (or force). The second can be shown by moving an electrically charged object past a compass and can be found in conventional texts, the first is created by generators and the like where a magnet has motion relative to a coil and electric charge's (electrons) are made to move, this is an electric force or an electric field. Now this is all conventional, a moving charge creates a magnetic field (because it's electric field is moving) and this magnetic field is only found in frames where there is relative motion to the charge, in the frame of the charge there is no magnetic field (at least not from the charge). Now if the velocity relative to the change increases the magnetic field will also increase and as it increases it expands out from the charge, it moves now this moving magnetic field will cut the observer, if the observer is charged to the same polarity as the charge the two will feel a force that will further increase their relative velocity, but if they were of opposite polarity (as in self induction) the acceleration would be resisted (but so would the deceleration). John Remi Cornwall wrote: > John, > > Try to formulate these ideas. Text is long and ambiguous. SHow the old > laws and then the new or how people misinterpret the old. I still don't > see how your beating Faraday's/Lenz's law. > > Remi. --------------74577C40A12F4615B2072CF5-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 29 19:06:02 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16089; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:03:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:03:24 -0700 Message-ID: <36103B77.5923@nf.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:14:23 -0230 From: Bruce Nickerson Reply-To: bruce.nickerson@nf.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SYMPA (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Mystery Force in Space Solved Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZWBoE1.0.Jx3.i5P4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6700 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The linear decay in the mystery acceleration component is the key. As I have proposed before, the mystery force is the result of an increased gravity component resulting from the angular velocity of the Solar System aether and the rate at which the space probe travels through it. The resultant spinning aether as observed by the probe is denser on one side of travel and less dense on the other side. Therefore creating an artificial gravity as seen by the probe. The probe will experience a gravitational force in the direction of the denser aether. When one considers that the probe began it's journey close to the Sun and close to the angular velocity of the Solar System and as the probe travels farther from the Sun it's angular velocity decreases. Since the spin wave gravity is a product of the aether density and the relative velocity through the eather. Then one would expect the aether density to decrease with the ratio of 1/R^2 as the probe travels fron the Sun. Since the probe began it's travels with an angular velocity close to the angular velocity of the Solar System and as the flight progressed the probe angular velocity decreased with the ratio 1/R the resultant angular velocity of the aether as seen by the probe would increase with the ratio R as the probe leaves the Sun. Therefore the product of the relative angular velocity and the probe velocity only decreases by the ratio of 1/R. For confirmation that spin matter creates gravity waves refer to the Wallace patents. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 29 20:30:41 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30813; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:22:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:22:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980929120744.00a001e0@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:07:44 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Solved In-Reply-To: <36103B77.5923@nf.sympatico.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"eHyMo1.0.NX7.5GQ4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6701 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:14 PM 9/28/98 -0230, you wrote: >The linear decay in the mystery acceleration component is the key. > > As I have proposed before, the mystery force is the result of an >increased gravity component resulting from the angular velocity of the >Solar System aether and the rate at which the space probe travels >through it. The resultant spinning aether as observed by the probe is >denser on one side of travel and less dense on the other side. Therefore >creating an artificial gravity as seen by the probe. The probe will >experience a gravitational force in the direction of the denser aether. > When one considers that the probe began it's journey close to the Sun >and close to the angular velocity of the Solar System and as the probe >travels farther from the Sun it's angular velocity decreases. Since the >spin wave gravity is a product of the aether density and the relative >velocity through the eather. Then one would expect the aether density to >decrease with the ratio of 1/R^2 as the probe travels fron the Sun. >Since the probe began it's travels with an angular velocity close to the >angular velocity of the Solar System and as the flight progressed the >probe angular velocity decreased with the ratio 1/R the resultant >angular velocity of the aether as seen by the probe would increase with >the ratio R as the probe leaves the Sun. Therefore the product of the >relative angular velocity and the probe velocity only decreases by the >ratio of 1/R. > For confirmation that spin matter creates gravity waves refer to the >Wallace patents. What can I say - a patent is a patent. But gravity waves? What object dropped into what medium to cause the wave? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 00:25:36 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA24995; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:24:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:24:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809300726.AAA11137@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: Magnetic behemoth discovered Resent-Message-ID: <"LcxZ22.0.Q66.uoT4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6703 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Steve and all, At 12:53 PM 9/29/98 -0600, you wrote: >Science & news brief: > >ASTRONOMY > >~MAGNETIC BEHEMOTH DISCOVERED~ > >WASHINGTON - Astronomers have found evidence of >what they called the most powerful magnetic field >ever seen in the universe. > They said they had seen the afterglow from a >magnetar, which is a neutron star that has a mag- >netic field billions of times stronger than the >Earth's. This one, they said, was 100 times stronger >than any magnetic field ever seen in the universe. >They found it in the Milky Way, about 15,000 light >years from Earth. > This must be millions of Tesla's strong, and in our galaxy! With its rotation, must be causing all kinds of effects! Maybe it's good that its 15,000 light years away! -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 00:27:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA24918; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:24:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:24:26 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809300725.AAA11068@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer Resent-Message-ID: <"wA_oI.0.A56.foT4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6702 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jim and all, At 09:36 PM 9/29/98 +0800, you wrote: >This is how I think a tranformer works: > An AC magnetic field (magnetic field that changes over time) is started >by the primary winding. When the field extends to the secondary winding, >a voltage difference forms at the secondary winding in respond to the >change in magnetic field strength. And this voltage difference creates >another magnetic field, and this field extends back to the primary to >cancel the original field. The more load the secondary has, the stronger >the secondary field (the field the secondary creates). > >Because it takes time for magnetic fields to reach the other side, we >can make the path (of magnetic field) so long or the frequency so high >that the secondary field doesn't cancel the primary field but enhance >it. Such transformer would be OU. > For pulses that have a short enough time to be over when the magnetic field reach the secondary core position, see Greg Watson's pmod at: Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/pmod.html For steady state (sine waves) your idea causes a paradox or conflict: The primary voltage is about equal to the self EMF generated in the primary with no load. (For a power transformer, one can test this by removing the vast majority of the self EMF by removing the core. Then measure the low voltage required to produce the same primary current.) If the phase is changed so that the secondary field adds to the primary, the primary EMF can easily be greater than the applied voltage. (Assume the core doesn't saturate). This means that the primary is now supplying power to the source and the assumption that the primary is the "source" of the magnetic field is now false! The current is also 180 deg. from what was assumed, as well as the direction of the magnetic fields. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 02:50:26 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA16954; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 02:47:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 02:47:23 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:49:11 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"yG57A.0.l84.huV4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6704 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:20 AM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote: I am old too! Not a problem Dear Lee Thank you for taking the time to stop for another look! I like you think that all science is of little value if not clearly understood by a normal reasonable mind. But, like many 18th century researchers, I feel that the learning of scientific principles should, to what-ever degree possible, be a mater of personal experience. Until the last 20 years or so, this was the practice of most universities. Remember lab class???? Now! All energy, that is manifest, expresses its' self in observable phenomenon. We learn by doing or watching, more or less, observing. The folly arises when we rely too heavily, on the math to describe nature. The math should just point the way, not be an answer in itself! Pragmatically verifying, mathematically predicted results, is what I call, "full circle" science. Now, to my work. I state that this new energy permeates every part of the universe! This energy is non manifest, but storable! It can be captured and quantified! It occupies space! It is non magnetic but can be expressed as electricity! Non thermal, yet can generate great heat. Non radioactive, yet can reduce radioactivity! Is neutral in reactance to water, yet can melt rock! Non kinetic, yet has resistance! And yes, it is in every other manifest of energy known! This leads me to call it "pre manifest energy" or "non-manifest energy" or Pure Non-manifest Energy. PNE! Combustion of the suspension medium, "Hydroxy" results in a flame like mantel, but with no radiant heat! In specific forms and pressures it is endothermic, while the same gas under other specific pressures is exothermic. It can be stored and release in nearly infinite amounts of energy! Now what would you call it? > >I'm sorry, it is a problem with being old, wearing trifocals and trying to >read things from a computer screen, when use to a book. The scrolling bit >gets me. I apologize for my selectivity. > >I still have a question about Pure Energy though. I'm suffering through the >inability to conceptualize Pure Energy just hanging around. > >It just seems to me, in my unenlightened and addlepatted condition, that >energy is what we get out of something after something happens. > >But I guess that is what the Free Energy conversation is all about - some >source of pure energy, a pool so to speak, that can be tapped. > >There may be "something" in the universe, or there may not be, but if there >is something then to my mind, it will requires some action. Like striking a >match, or interrupting the flow of water with a paddle, something to cause >a reaction. > >Lee > > >>>>>> at 02:55 AM, Lee Markland said: >>>>>> >> >>Dear Lee, >> >>You seem to suffer from selective reading, in that you often miss the point >>by focusing in on one thing in a statement that is part of the discussion >>but not the core issue. >> >>I simply state that I have worked in hydrogen, Hydrogen and Oxygen are >>simply a medium where energy can be stored. Other than this fact, it has >>little if anything to do with what I had written you about. Second you >>subjected my comments previous conversations, to some how infer that I >>thought space is full of hydrogen. >> >>None of this is the point. The energy is of what I speak. Non manifest, >>PURE ENERGY. The medium is of minor import, but the existence of this >>energy is. >> >>You say; >> >> >>If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of >>>hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be >>>sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. >> >> >>> >>>NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its >>>spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. >>> >>>In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth >>>weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it >>>and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square >>>law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival >>>speed and time at the neutral point. >>> >>>At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the >>>gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft towards >>>the moon. >>> >>>If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations >>>would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have >>>got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. >>> >>>Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would >>>introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And >>>wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen >>>molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of >>>the gravitational force of the sun? >>> >>>The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its >>>weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of hydrogen >>>is akin to oil floating on water. >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> In contrast with the force of gravity, the strength of the mystery >>>>>>>force does not decline proportionally to the inverse square of a space >>>>>>>craft's distance from the Sun but at a constant (linear) rate; this >>>>>>>argues against the force being a gravitational effect of the Sun. >>>>>> >>>>>>Hmmm, smells like aether to me. (A slight drag was a >>>>>>requirement for the aether to exist. Since they could detect >>>>>>no drag, the aeither didn't exist) >>>>>> >>>>>>-Charlie- >>>>> >>>>>That would be interesting, to obtain verifiable proof of the aether. Of >>>>>course it would have to be verified independently using different >>>>experiments. >>>>> >>>>>Anyway Silvertooth has supposedly done that and the late Stephen Marinov >>>>>wrote a paper on it. >>>>> >>>>>Still in all, we can only specualte. >>>>> >>>>>Aether, tired light, push gravity from outside the system, >misconception of >>>>>the doppler effect. >>>>> >>>>>In fact it seems to me that it would be profitable drawing up a list of >all >>>>>possible causes for the "apparent" slowing of the spacecraft, >regardless of >>>>>whether or not the speculation fits within the framerwork of conventional >>>>>physics. >>>>> >>>>>Lee >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I read your last post with great interest. I to have studdied the nature >>>>od mater with reguard to higher states of energy. I have developed a >>>>theory of energy mater states I call "Pure Non-manifest Energy" or PNE. >>>> >>>>This energy is hinter at in all manifest states due to conversion, ie, >>>>kenitic, thermal, electromagnetic. >>>> >>>>All these energied can be converted, back and forth with some losses, of >>>>course. But these simple facts point the way to a nutral of transitional >>>>modle of energy that can be expressed in multiple forms. >>>> >>>>In my work with hydrogen I have captured this energy. I can measure it, >>>>store it, and use it at will. Buy the way it occupies space, which then >>>>theoretically outer space can be full of it. >>> >>>If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of >>>hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be >>>sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. >>> >>>NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its >>>spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. >>> >>>In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth >>>weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it >>>and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square >>>law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival >>>speed and time at the neutral point. >>> >>>At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the >>>gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft towards >>>the moon. >>> >>>If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations >>>would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have >>>got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. >>> >>>Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would >>>introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And >>>wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen >>>molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of >>>the gravitational force of the sun? >>> >>>The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its >>>weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of hydrogen >>>is akin to oil floating on water. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Here is a url of one of my postings. >>>> >>>>http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html >>>> >>>>Please give me a read on this page >>>> >>>> >>>>All the best >>>> >>>>TR Knudtson >>>> >>>>you can find much more on the web by Search; Browns' Gas >>>> >>>>I am one of the 7 original researchers on this project. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 04:20:05 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA32282; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 04:18:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 04:18:25 -0700 Message-ID: <3612113A.E2F38CA9@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:08:42 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer References: <1cf7c5d5.3611092d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"im3p.0.Cu7.1EX4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6705 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keasy@aol.com wrote: > I agree this is an interesting idea and in fact posted a related proposal a > month or so ago. One thing about this that is a little confusing, at least to > me, is that the B fields in a transformer must be continuous, (if we believe > Maxwell's equations) so it is not clear how a change in one winding is > eventually felt in the other winding -- ie your "it takes time for magnetic > fields to reach the other side" statement (especially on an iron core with the > windings separated). I think there is more going on here than conventional > theory addresses. What exactly do you mean "continuous"? I don't know any Maxwell's equations, but I think if there is a changing magnetic field source (such as a coil with AC current) and a magnetic field detector a distance away, it takes time for signals to travel from the field source to the detector. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 05:23:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA22449; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 05:20:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 05:20:23 -0700 Message-ID: <361222A3.9936ACD2@cm1.hinet.net> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:22:59 +0800 From: "Jim T. Lin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer References: <199809300725.AAA11068@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VhJSn3.0.cU5.68Y4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6706 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: dave dameron wrote: > Hi Jim and all, > At 09:36 PM 9/29/98 +0800, you wrote: > >This is how I think a tranformer works: > > An AC magnetic field (magnetic field that changes over time) is started > >by the primary winding. When the field extends to the secondary winding, > >a voltage difference forms at the secondary winding in respond to the > >change in magnetic field strength. And this voltage difference creates > >another magnetic field, and this field extends back to the primary to > >cancel the original field. The more load the secondary has, the stronger > >the secondary field (the field the secondary creates). > > > >Because it takes time for magnetic fields to reach the other side, we > >can make the path (of magnetic field) so long or the frequency so high > >that the secondary field doesn't cancel the primary field but enhance > >it. Such transformer would be OU. > > > For pulses that have a short enough time to be over when the magnetic field > reach the secondary core position, see Greg Watson's pmod at: > Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/pmod.html > > For steady state (sine waves) your idea causes a paradox or conflict: > The primary voltage is about equal to the self EMF generated in the primary > with no load. > (For a power transformer, one can test this by removing the vast majority of > the self EMF by removing the core. Then measure the low voltage required to > produce the same primary current.) > > If the phase is changed so that the secondary field adds to the primary, the > primary EMF can easily be greater than the applied voltage. (Assume the core > doesn't saturate). This means that the primary is now supplying power to the > source and the assumption that the primary is the "source" of the magnetic > field is now false! The current is also 180 deg. from what was assumed, as > well as the > direction of the magnetic fields. > -Dave If we make the iron path longer, we wouldn't have to make pulses that short, right? What did you mean by "saturation of the core"? Do you mean that magnetic field is so great in the core that it cannot be any greater because that's the most the core can store? If we use a rotating magnet instead of a coil at the primary, it might be easier to understand. When the field direction changes and is detected by the secondary coil, the coil produces a field opposite in direction that travels back to the primary. Normally this would slow down the rotation of the magnet. But when the rotation is fast enough and iron path long enough, it does the opposite -- accelerating the magnet -- and there should not be any problem like the ones you described above (which I do not understand clearly). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 06:03:55 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA01402; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 06:01:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 06:01:51 -0700 X-Sender: sepp@lastrega.com (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: sepp@lastrega.com (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery Message-Id: <98Sep30.090124-0400_edt.34568671-954+7@hugin.request.net> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:56:00 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <"WqoKy1.0.cL._kY4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6707 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lee Markland wrote: >Then in what form is this "energy". Is it static? Is there some form of >static energy which just lays there occupying space. > >What is energy? >How is it created? >What form(s) does it take? >What happens to it after it is created? Does it just hang around the >neighborhood like some generation X'er or does it move on, being propelled >outwards in an expanding sphere from its source? I don't think anything >energetic hangs around the neighborhood, unless it has form and substance - >i.e. matter. >Matter has energy potential, but matter isn't energy. Something has to >happen to it, before it can realize it's energy potential. >A boulder setting on a hillside isn't realizing any energy, but once set in >motion will realize its energy potential. > >Is energy dynamic? Or is it static? >Flowing water is not energy, it is potential energy. It flows only because >of gravitational force and its potential is realized when it meets >resistance, or it's molecular structure is altered and the molecules are >then combusted. But water itself is not energy. Something has to happen to >it to convert it to energy. > Sorry for a lengthy reply to this, but I just drafted an article that has implications for the questions above. Here are the relevant parts: (Anybody interested in the whole article, please e-mail me.) Energy We are using electric energy in our daily lives without having a firm understanding of what this energy actually is. To be sure, we have a working knowledge of how electricity behaves, we can engineer applications of it, but ask anyone to explain the basic principles behind electricity or magnetism - if you dig far enough for a basic explanation, you will get an embarrassed silence. Thomas E. Bearden explains, in a recent article,(5) that there is a great disparity between the energy that flows from a dipole and that actually captured and put to use in our electric or electronic apparatus. The energy flow from a battery or a generator is much larger; something on the order of 1013 times the amount of conventionally used energy. According to Bearden, there are some basic flaws in our way of explaining and utilising electrodynamics. One might agree with Bearden or not, but to be sure, there are fundamental shortcomings in our understanding of energetic processes. Torsion fields are another case in point. They are highly penetrative energies which have been demonstrated to "propagate" at superluminal velocities. Our knowledge of these fields is based largely on research done in Russia(6) by A. Akimov and G. Shipov. A recent summary of relevant research has been published by Donald Reed(7). We are still grappling to find a mechanism that allows such speeds in physical space and are theorising "wormholes" and "time reversal". There may however be a much simpler explanation for these phenomena, if we can take the step and open our mind's eye to the possibility that the universe does not only consist of matter and energy located in and operating through space, but that at least part of that energy is resident in and operating out of what I described as hyper space. Life force I propose that all matter is created and continuously re-created by what I would call "life force". This force provides patterns of energy which "materialise" parts of the medium that fills space, coagulating it into what we perceive to be particles of matter. There is a vast range of complexity of these particles from hydrogen to the heavy elements. There is as well a vast range of extension, from single particles to planetary and stellar masses. And there is another distinction, between what we call "dead" matter and what we call "animated" or "full-of-life" matter, such as plants, animals and human bodies. The differences however are only quantitative, not qualitative. It is the same life force or life energy in different quantities and different degrees of mobility that is responsible for the various manifestations of matter. Interactions Electric, magnetic and gravitational interactions between matter are mediated by energy. Patterns of energy associated with matter are postulated as being provided by life force. Consequently, the interactions would appear to be between the energy patterns, rather than between the particles of the bodies themselves. Life force is not part of our three-dimensional space but, residing as it were in hyperspace it is, as discussed above, one step above the dimensionaltiy of space. It is not bound to travel "through space" and thus is capable of manifesting it's effects in distant and diverse locations at the same instant. Consequently, interactions that are energy-pattern interactions are not limited by speed of light. We thus have not only a possibility of "instantaneous action at a distance" but also of particles disappearing in one spot and reappearing in another, which agrees with recent experimental evidence. From here it is a simple step to extend the concept and include phenomena such as telepathy, telekinesis and teleportation, which so far have been relegated to the margins of science. These will, one day in the not too distant future, become normal occurrences quite within the province of scientific investigation. Bibliography: 6. A. Akimov, G. Shipov, "Torsion Fields and Their Experimental Manifestations." Proceedings of the International Conference 'New ideas in Natural Sciences' St. Petersburg, June 1996 7) Donald Reed "New Concepts for SpaceTime and Corroborating Evidence from Torsion Field Research" New Energy News Vol.6, Number 1, May 1998. Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com homepage at http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 06:11:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA08051; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 06:08:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 06:08:47 -0700 Message-ID: <36122C70.6609BE5A@harti.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:04:49 +0100 From: Stefan Hartmann Reply-To: leoguitar@vossnet.de Organization: Hartmann Multimedia Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Newman-L Mailing List , freenrg-l , Evan Soule Subject: Re: Real Newman 2 coil experiment trick ! References: <01BDEBF4.53895A60.jwrinkle@utdallas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tD8W_.0.Qz1.UrY4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6708 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jason Wrinkle wrote: > I am confused now, you are saying the conventional EM theory supports > Newman in this 2 coil demo? If this is the case, then what is the > importance of this demo??!! If current theory describes this demo, then > the fact that we get the results we do does nothing to point the arrow of > truth toward Mr. Newman's theory. It might indicate that Newman theory > encompasses current EM; however, the way I remember the tape going, Newman > says that this experiment proves that his theory is correct. > The real trick is: from a very very big coil you will get more mechanical energy: Force x distance on a permanent magnet attracted, than it is necessary to put electrical energy into the electromagnet (Newman-coil). See it this way: The Newman coil acts as a ON-OFF switchable permanent magnet with very small power input only ! The mechanical energy you can get out off one cycle can be bigger than the inputed electrical energy to switch the Newman coil ON and OFF ! I have simulated this with Quickfield simulation software and it can work, if you design the coil right ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com Use our automatic creditcard billing at: http://ccard.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 10:06:30 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA03724; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:02:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:02:46 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: <4ce38969.361263c6@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:00:54 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"HF9wd1.0.zv.sGc4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6709 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/30/98 4:21:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jimtc@cm1.hinet.net writes: << What exactly do you mean "continuous"? I don't know any Maxwell's equations, but I think if there is a changing magnetic field source (such as a coil with AC current) and a magnetic field detector a distance away, it takes time for signals to travel from the field source to the detector. >> You are certainly right , but by "continuous" they mean, among other things, if you have a current source that is changing, at any instant of time you have to be able to draw each of the magnetic field lines as a continuous line that closes upon itself. And it starts as a small circle around the current source in a plane perpendicular to the direction of the current (moving outward -in free space- at the speed of light). All that is fairly well accepted, I think. For me problems arise when I try to apply that to something like a toroidal transformer with windings on each side. With a change in primary current how does the resultant field get uniformly distributed in the toroid, especially if there is an opposing current in the secondary and the net field in the core has to be the difference between the two? (I may be working on this for a while :-) ). Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 10:17:37 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA09857; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:13:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:13:47 -0700 From: Keasy@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:10:51 EDT To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Is there a good 3-d magnetic simulation program? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Resent-Message-ID: <"RxLUa3.0.wP2.BRc4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6710 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is quickfield a general 3-d simulation program or does it assume everything extends uniformly in one direction? I need a 3-d simulation program that is inexpensive (free highly preferable). Another group where I work has one, but it is a custom program and unfortunately I don't have access to use it. Ken Keasy@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 12:55:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA15552; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:52:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:52:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:53:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer In-Reply-To: <3612113A.E2F38CA9@cm1.hinet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"iRnRT2.0.wo3.fle4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6711 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Jim T. Lin wrote: What exactly do you mean "continuous"? I don't know any Maxwell's equations, but I think if there is a changing magnetic field source (such as a coil with AC current) and a magnetic field detector a distance away, it takes time for signals to travel from the field source to the detector. ------------------------- Hi Jim, Maxwell's Equation = describes the behavior of the electro-magnetic field. In free space, vacuum, there are TWO basic field quantities, the electric field E(r,t) and the magnetic induction B(r,t), whose values at a given place and time can be determined by observing the force on a test charge q moving with the velocity v; / 1 \ F = q( E+ -- v x B ) \ c / Here c is a constant with the dimensions of a velocity that turns out to be the speed with which electromagnetic waves (light waves) propagate in free space. The sources of the fields are electric charges and electric currents. hope that helps. -=se=- source: pg 711 Encylopedia of Physics (2nd edition) ISBN 0-89573-752-3 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 16:12:46 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08423; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:09:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:09:17 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980930131421.0083c970@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:14:21 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer In-Reply-To: <3612113A.E2F38CA9@cm1.hinet.net> References: <1cf7c5d5.3611092d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"aA1_v.0.P32.Qeh4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6713 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:08 PM 9/30/98 +0800, you wrote: >Keasy@aol.com wrote: >> I agree this is an interesting idea and in fact posted a related proposal a >> month or so ago. One thing about this that is a little confusing, at least to >> me, is that the B fields in a transformer must be continuous, (if we believe >> Maxwell's equations) so it is not clear how a change in one winding is >> eventually felt in the other winding -- ie your "it takes time for magnetic >> fields to reach the other side" statement (especially on an iron core with the >> windings separated). I think there is more going on here than conventional >> theory addresses. > >What exactly do you mean "continuous"? I don't know any Maxwell's >equations, but I think if there is a changing magnetic field source >(such as a coil with AC current) and a magnetic field detector a >distance away, it takes time for signals to travel from the field source >to the detector. Does that mean these "signals" don't travel at the speed of light, at least? Which in small distances would be more or less instantaneous. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 16:13:28 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08388; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:09:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:09:12 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:11:34 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Ikrzd1.0.m22.Neh4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6712 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:49 PM 9/28/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 09:20 AM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote: > > >I am old too! > >Not a problem > >Dear Lee > >Thank you for taking the time to stop for another look! I like you think >that all science is of little value if not clearly understood by a normal >reasonable mind. > >But, like many 18th century researchers, I feel that the learning of >scientific principles should, to what-ever degree possible, be a mater of >personal experience. Until the last 20 years or so, this was the practice >of most universities. Remember lab class???? > >Now! > >All energy, that is manifest, expresses its' self in observable phenomenon. > We learn by doing or watching, more or less, observing. The folly arises >when we rely too heavily, on the math to describe nature. The math should >just point the way, not be an answer in itself! Pragmatically verifying, >mathematically predicted results, is what I call, "full circle" science. > >Now, to my work. > >I state that this new energy permeates every part of the universe! > >This energy is non manifest, but storable! > >It can be captured and quantified! > >It occupies space! > >It is non magnetic but can be expressed as electricity! > >Non thermal, yet can generate great heat. > >Non radioactive, yet can reduce radioactivity! > >Is neutral in reactance to water, yet can melt rock! > >Non kinetic, yet has resistance! > >And yes, it is in every other manifest of energy known! > >This leads me to call it "pre manifest energy" or "non-manifest energy" or >Pure Non-manifest Energy. > >PNE! > >Combustion of the suspension medium, "Hydroxy" results in a flame like >mantel, but with no radiant heat! > >In specific forms and pressures it is endothermic, while the same gas under >other specific pressures is exothermic. > >It can be stored and release in nearly infinite amounts of energy! > >Now what would you call it? Hydrogen? A storage battery? Your thesis is impelling and grabs my attention, but if there is something there we should be able to dip a ladle into it and pull some out, or sense or measure it to some degree. I rebel only against metaphysics and circular reasoning, and I applaud hands on science and experimentation. Lee >>I'm sorry, it is a problem with being old, wearing trifocals and trying to >>read things from a computer screen, when use to a book. The scrolling bit >>gets me. I apologize for my selectivity. >> >>I still have a question about Pure Energy though. I'm suffering through the >>inability to conceptualize Pure Energy just hanging around. >> >>It just seems to me, in my unenlightened and addlepatted condition, that >>energy is what we get out of something after something happens. >> >>But I guess that is what the Free Energy conversation is all about - some >>source of pure energy, a pool so to speak, that can be tapped. >> >>There may be "something" in the universe, or there may not be, but if there >>is something then to my mind, it will requires some action. Like striking a >>match, or interrupting the flow of water with a paddle, something to cause >>a reaction. >> >>Lee >> >> >>>>>>> at 02:55 AM, Lee Markland said: >>>>>>> >>> >>>Dear Lee, >>> >>>You seem to suffer from selective reading, in that you often miss the point >>>by focusing in on one thing in a statement that is part of the discussion >>>but not the core issue. >>> >>>I simply state that I have worked in hydrogen, Hydrogen and Oxygen are >>>simply a medium where energy can be stored. Other than this fact, it has >>>little if anything to do with what I had written you about. Second you >>>subjected my comments previous conversations, to some how infer that I >>>thought space is full of hydrogen. >>> >>>None of this is the point. The energy is of what I speak. Non manifest, >>>PURE ENERGY. The medium is of minor import, but the existence of this >>>energy is. >>> >>>You say; >>> >>> >>>If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of >>>>hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be >>>>sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. >>> >>> >>>> >>>>NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its >>>>spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. >>>> >>>>In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth >>>>weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it >>>>and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square >>>>law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival >>>>speed and time at the neutral point. >>>> >>>>At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the >>>>gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft towards >>>>the moon. >>>> >>>>If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations >>>>would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have >>>>got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. >>>> >>>>Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would >>>>introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And >>>>wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen >>>>molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of >>>>the gravitational force of the sun? >>>> >>>>The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its >>>>weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of hydrogen >>>>is akin to oil floating on water. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>>> In contrast with the force of gravity, the strength of the mystery >>>>>>>>force does not decline proportionally to the inverse square of a space >>>>>>>>craft's distance from the Sun but at a constant (linear) rate; this >>>>>>>>argues against the force being a gravitational effect of the Sun. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Hmmm, smells like aether to me. (A slight drag was a >>>>>>>requirement for the aether to exist. Since they could detect >>>>>>>no drag, the aeither didn't exist) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-Charlie- >>>>>> >>>>>>That would be interesting, to obtain verifiable proof of the aether. Of >>>>>>course it would have to be verified independently using different >>>>>experiments. >>>>>> >>>>>>Anyway Silvertooth has supposedly done that and the late Stephen Marinov >>>>>>wrote a paper on it. >>>>>> >>>>>>Still in all, we can only specualte. >>>>>> >>>>>>Aether, tired light, push gravity from outside the system, >>misconception of >>>>>>the doppler effect. >>>>>> >>>>>>In fact it seems to me that it would be profitable drawing up a list of >>all >>>>>>possible causes for the "apparent" slowing of the spacecraft, >>regardless of >>>>>>whether or not the speculation fits within the framerwork of conventional >>>>>>physics. >>>>>> >>>>>>Lee >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I read your last post with great interest. I to have studdied the nature >>>>>od mater with reguard to higher states of energy. I have developed a >>>>>theory of energy mater states I call "Pure Non-manifest Energy" or PNE. >>>>> >>>>>This energy is hinter at in all manifest states due to conversion, ie, >>>>>kenitic, thermal, electromagnetic. >>>>> >>>>>All these energied can be converted, back and forth with some losses, of >>>>>course. But these simple facts point the way to a nutral of transitional >>>>>modle of energy that can be expressed in multiple forms. >>>>> >>>>>In my work with hydrogen I have captured this energy. I can measure it, >>>>>store it, and use it at will. Buy the way it occupies space, which then >>>>>theoretically outer space can be full of it. >>>> >>>>If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of >>>>hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be >>>>sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. >>>> >>>>NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its >>>>spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. >>>> >>>>In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth >>>>weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it >>>>and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square >>>>law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival >>>>speed and time at the neutral point. >>>> >>>>At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the >>>>gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft towards >>>>the moon. >>>> >>>>If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations >>>>would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have >>>>got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. >>>> >>>>Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would >>>>introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And >>>>wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen >>>>molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of >>>>the gravitational force of the sun? >>>> >>>>The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its >>>>weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of hydrogen >>>>is akin to oil floating on water. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Here is a url of one of my postings. >>>>> >>>>>http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html >>>>> >>>>>Please give me a read on this page >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>All the best >>>>> >>>>>TR Knudtson >>>>> >>>>>you can find much more on the web by Search; Browns' Gas >>>>> >>>>>I am one of the 7 original researchers on this project. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 16:14:50 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08578; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:09:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:09:42 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980930142751.0084f350@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:27:51 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: <98Sep30.090124-0400_edt.34568671-954+7@hugin.request.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HMhqR.0.s52.reh4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6714 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It is obvious that our understanding of the universe is not as complete as we like to think it is. I have a question though as regards this statement of yours" "This force provides patterns of energy which "materialise" parts of the medium that fills space, coagulating it into what we perceive to be particles of matter."" Wouldn't these patterns of energy which "materialize" parts of the medium that fills space, introduce drag, friction, resistance to planets, moons, asteroids and space ships? I don't buy into that time reversal stuff, or wormholes either, but I'm not going to revisit my argument as to why not. As regards the disappearance and reappearance of particles. I sure wish I had access to those experiments and could ask plain questions and receive plain language answers to those questions. Meanwhile I'm stuck with either rejecting the results or the explanation for the results out of hand, or kow towing to authority and believing everything I'm told. I guess it all depends on what I have been set up and predisposed to believe or not to believe. If I'm predisposed to believe this or that theoretician then I will accept whatever "proofs" are offered. If I'm predisposed to hold in abeyance a rush to judgement, then I will demand a more substantive demonstration. Like putting these "proofs" to practical use. Kind of like holding the physicists feet to the same fire as Newman's feet are held to. Maybe I'll wait until I can buy such a machine at CostCo and teleport my paperwork to and from my office. Lee At 08:56 AM 9/30/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Lee Markland wrote: > >>Then in what form is this "energy". Is it static? Is there some form of >>static energy which just lays there occupying space. >> >>What is energy? >>How is it created? >>What form(s) does it take? >>What happens to it after it is created? Does it just hang around the >>neighborhood like some generation X'er or does it move on, being propelled >>outwards in an expanding sphere from its source? I don't think anything >>energetic hangs around the neighborhood, unless it has form and substance - >>i.e. matter. >>Matter has energy potential, but matter isn't energy. Something has to >>happen to it, before it can realize it's energy potential. >>A boulder setting on a hillside isn't realizing any energy, but once set in >>motion will realize its energy potential. >> >>Is energy dynamic? Or is it static? >>Flowing water is not energy, it is potential energy. It flows only because >>of gravitational force and its potential is realized when it meets >>resistance, or it's molecular structure is altered and the molecules are >>then combusted. But water itself is not energy. Something has to happen to >>it to convert it to energy. >> > >Sorry for a lengthy reply to this, but I just drafted an article that has >implications for the questions above. > >Here are the relevant parts: > >(Anybody interested in the whole article, please e-mail me.) > > > >Energy > >We are using electric energy in our daily lives without having a firm >understanding of what this energy actually is. To be sure, we have a >working knowledge of how electricity behaves, we can engineer applications >of it, but ask anyone to explain the basic principles behind electricity or >magnetism - if you dig far enough for a basic explanation, you will get an >embarrassed silence. > >Thomas E. Bearden explains, in a recent article,(5) that there is a great >disparity between the energy that flows from a dipole and that actually >captured and put to use in our electric or electronic apparatus. The energy >flow from a battery or a generator is much larger; something on the order >of 1013 times the amount of conventionally used energy. According to >Bearden, there are some basic flaws in our way of explaining and utilising >electrodynamics. One might agree with Bearden or not, but to be sure, there >are fundamental shortcomings in our understanding of energetic processes. > >Torsion fields are another case in point. They are highly penetrative >energies which have been demonstrated to "propagate" at superluminal >velocities. Our knowledge of these fields is based largely on research done >in Russia(6) by A. Akimov and G. Shipov. A recent summary of relevant >research has been published by Donald Reed(7). We are still grappling to >find a mechanism that allows such speeds in physical space and are >theorising "wormholes" and "time reversal". > >There may however be a much simpler explanation for these phenomena, if we >can take the step and open our mind's eye to the possibility that the >universe does not only consist of matter and energy located in and >operating through space, but that at least part of that energy is resident >in and operating out of what I described as hyper space. > > >Life force > >I propose that all matter is created and continuously re-created by what I >would call "life force". This force provides patterns of energy which >"materialise" parts of the medium that fills space, coagulating it into >what we perceive to be particles of matter. > >There is a vast range of complexity of these particles from hydrogen to the >heavy elements. There is as well a vast range of extension, from single >particles to planetary and stellar masses. And there is another >distinction, between what we call "dead" matter and what we call "animated" >or "full-of-life" matter, such as plants, animals and human bodies. > >The differences however are only quantitative, not qualitative. It is the >same life force or life energy in different quantities and different >degrees of mobility that is responsible for the various manifestations of >matter. > > >Interactions > >Electric, magnetic and gravitational interactions between matter are >mediated by energy. Patterns of energy associated with matter are >postulated as being provided by life force. Consequently, the interactions >would appear to be between the energy patterns, rather than between the >particles of the bodies themselves. > >Life force is not part of our three-dimensional space but, residing as it >were in hyperspace it is, as discussed above, one step above the >dimensionaltiy of space. It is not bound to travel "through space" and thus >is capable of manifesting it's effects in distant and diverse locations at >the same instant. Consequently, interactions that are energy-pattern >interactions are not limited by speed of light. > >We thus have not only a possibility of "instantaneous action at a distance" >but also of particles disappearing in one spot and reappearing in another, >which agrees with recent experimental evidence. From here it is a simple >step to extend the concept and include phenomena such as telepathy, >telekinesis and teleportation, which so far have been relegated to the >margins of science. These will, one day in the not too distant future, >become normal occurrences quite within the province of scientific >investigation. > > > > > >Bibliography: > > > >6. A. Akimov, G. Shipov, "Torsion Fields and Their Experimental >Manifestations." Proceedings of the International Conference 'New ideas in >Natural Sciences' St. Petersburg, June 1996 > >7) Donald Reed "New Concepts for SpaceTime and Corroborating Evidence from >Torsion Field Research" New Energy News Vol.6, Number 1, May 1998. > >Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY >new e-mail address: sepp@lastrega.com >homepage at http://www.lastrega.com/Hasslberger > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 17:15:29 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA00953; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:11:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:11:09 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980929022404.00869e30@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 02:24:04 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"yOC-41.0.oE.SYi4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6715 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:11 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 03:49 PM 9/28/98 -0700, you wrote: >>At 09:20 AM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >>> Dear Lee It is clear that you only respond to the individual text of the e-mail, and do not follow up with suggested reading,or support documentation, that would allow you to familiarize your self with the material or research, you care to evaluate. In many of the letters you respond to here, you follow this same procedure of failing to do your homework. A diligent member of this group is quick to identify your lack of effort, and blatant dismissal of basic scientific principles of the most reasonable nature. Perhaps, you may be well served in hooking into a gossip column, or chat format, where such practices are the norm, for you entertainment. Thank You TR Knudtson TR Hydrogen? A storage battery? Your thesis is impelling and grabs my >attention, but if there is something there we should be able to dip a ladle >into it and pull some out, or sense or measure it to some degree. > >I rebel only against metaphysics and circular reasoning, and I applaud >hands on science and experimentation. >> >> Dear Lee I am old too! >> >>Not a problem >> >>Dear Lee >> >>Thank you for taking the time to stop for another look! I like you think >>that all science is of little value if not clearly understood by a normal >>reasonable mind. >> >>But, like many 18th century researchers, I feel that the learning of >>scientific principles should, to what-ever degree possible, be a mater of >>personal experience. Until the last 20 years or so, this was the practice >>of most universities. Remember lab class???? >> >>Now! >> >>All energy, that is manifest, expresses its' self in observable phenomenon. >> We learn by doing or watching, more or less, observing. The folly arises >>when we rely too heavily, on the math to describe nature. The math should >>just point the way, not be an answer in itself! Pragmatically verifying, >>mathematically predicted results, is what I call, "full circle" science. >> >>Now, to my work. >> >>I state that this new energy permeates every part of the universe! >> >>This energy is non manifest, but storable! >> >>It can be captured and quantified! >> >>It occupies space! >> >>It is non magnetic but can be expressed as electricity! >> >>Non thermal, yet can generate great heat. >> >>Non radioactive, yet can reduce radioactivity! >> >>Is neutral in reactance to water, yet can melt rock! >> >>Non kinetic, yet has resistance! >> >>And yes, it is in every other manifest of energy known! >> >>This leads me to call it "pre manifest energy" or "non-manifest energy" or >>Pure Non-manifest Energy. >> >>PNE! >> >>Combustion of the suspension medium, "Hydroxy" results in a flame like >>mantel, but with no radiant heat! >> >>In specific forms and pressures it is endothermic, while the same gas under >>other specific pressures is exothermic. >> >>It can be stored and release in nearly infinite amounts of energy! >> >>Now what would you call it? > > >Lee > >>>I'm sorry, it is a problem with being old, wearing trifocals and trying to >>>read things from a computer screen, when use to a book. The scrolling bit >>>gets me. I apologize for my selectivity. >>> >>>I still have a question about Pure Energy though. I'm suffering through the >>>inability to conceptualize Pure Energy just hanging around. >>> >>>It just seems to me, in my unenlightened and addlepatted condition, that >>>energy is what we get out of something after something happens. >>> >>>But I guess that is what the Free Energy conversation is all about - some >>>source of pure energy, a pool so to speak, that can be tapped. >>> >>>There may be "something" in the universe, or there may not be, but if there >>>is something then to my mind, it will requires some action. Like striking a >>>match, or interrupting the flow of water with a paddle, something to cause >>>a reaction. >>> >>>Lee >>> >>> >>>>>>>> at 02:55 AM, Lee Markland said: >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>Dear Lee, >>>> >>>>You seem to suffer from selective reading, in that you often miss the point >>>>by focusing in on one thing in a statement that is part of the discussion >>>>but not the core issue. >>>> >>>>I simply state that I have worked in hydrogen, Hydrogen and Oxygen are >>>>simply a medium where energy can be stored. Other than this fact, it has >>>>little if anything to do with what I had written you about. Second you >>>>subjected my comments previous conversations, to some how infer that I >>>>thought space is full of hydrogen. >>>> >>>>None of this is the point. The energy is of what I speak. Non manifest, >>>>PURE ENERGY. The medium is of minor import, but the existence of this >>>>energy is. >>>> >>>>You say; >>>> >>>> >>>>If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of >>>>>hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be >>>>>sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its >>>>>spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. >>>>> >>>>>In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth >>>>>weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it >>>>>and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square >>>>>law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival >>>>>speed and time at the neutral point. >>>>> >>>>>At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the >>>>>gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft towards >>>>>the moon. >>>>> >>>>>If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations >>>>>would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have >>>>>got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. >>>>> >>>>>Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would >>>>>introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And >>>>>wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen >>>>>molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of >>>>>the gravitational force of the sun? >>>>> >>>>>The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its >>>>>weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of hydrogen >>>>>is akin to oil floating on water. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> In contrast with the force of gravity, the strength of the mystery >>>>>>>>>force does not decline proportionally to the inverse square of a space >>>>>>>>>craft's distance from the Sun but at a constant (linear) rate; this >>>>>>>>>argues against the force being a gravitational effect of the Sun. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hmmm, smells like aether to me. (A slight drag was a >>>>>>>>requirement for the aether to exist. Since they could detect >>>>>>>>no drag, the aeither didn't exist) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-Charlie- >>>>>>> >>>>>>>That would be interesting, to obtain verifiable proof of the aether. Of >>>>>>>course it would have to be verified independently using different >>>>>>experiments. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Anyway Silvertooth has supposedly done that and the late Stephen Marinov >>>>>>>wrote a paper on it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Still in all, we can only specualte. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Aether, tired light, push gravity from outside the system, >>>misconception of >>>>>>>the doppler effect. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>In fact it seems to me that it would be profitable drawing up a list of >>>all >>>>>>>possible causes for the "apparent" slowing of the spacecraft, >>>regardless of >>>>>>>whether or not the speculation fits within the framerwork of >conventional >>>>>>>physics. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Lee >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I read your last post with great interest. I to have studdied the >nature >>>>>>od mater with reguard to higher states of energy. I have developed a >>>>>>theory of energy mater states I call "Pure Non-manifest Energy" or PNE. >>>>>> >>>>>>This energy is hinter at in all manifest states due to conversion, ie, >>>>>>kenitic, thermal, electromagnetic. >>>>>> >>>>>>All these energied can be converted, back and forth with some losses, of >>>>>>course. But these simple facts point the way to a nutral of transitional >>>>>>modle of energy that can be expressed in multiple forms. >>>>>> >>>>>>In my work with hydrogen I have captured this energy. I can measure it, >>>>>>store it, and use it at will. Buy the way it occupies space, which then >>>>>>theoretically outer space can be full of it. >>>>> >>>>>If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of >>>>>hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be >>>>>sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. >>>>> >>>>>NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its >>>>>spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. >>>>> >>>>>In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth >>>>>weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it >>>>>and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square >>>>>law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival >>>>>speed and time at the neutral point. >>>>> >>>>>At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the >>>>>gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft towards >>>>>the moon. >>>>> >>>>>If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations >>>>>would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have >>>>>got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. >>>>> >>>>>Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would >>>>>introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And >>>>>wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen >>>>>molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of >>>>>the gravitational force of the sun? >>>>> >>>>>The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its >>>>>weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of hydrogen >>>>>is akin to oil floating on water. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Here is a url of one of my postings. >>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html >>>>>> >>>>>>Please give me a read on this page >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>All the best >>>>>> >>>>>>TR Knudtson >>>>>> >>>>>>you can find much more on the web by Search; Browns' Gas >>>>>> >>>>>>I am one of the 7 original researchers on this project. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 17:49:51 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA14627; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:44:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:44:22 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980930173845.00860100@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:38:45 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: Mystery Force in Space Remains a Mystery In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980929022404.00869e30@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"AwjAm.0.Sa3.a1j4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6716 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I apologize if I offended you. I thought I already apologized once, and explained. I guess not. I only asked honest questions, questions anyone from the general population pool would ask. Which incidentally weren't answered. Unfortunately I don't have your resources, or obviously your expertise so I thought some direct and simple answers might elicit a direct and simple response, rather than a disparagement. And no sir, I don't do chat rooms or trivia. I have a vast interest and an intense curiousity, but questions do arise, and are at least, in my very humble and insignificant opinion, worthy of note and answer. I'm reminded of the chastisement I received some 45 years ago, when I questioned my teacher on the oil from dinosaurs hypotheses. Or when I questioned the Bible, or when I raise any questions at all. Elsewise I just go muttering off to myself about another mad scientist, with wild metaphysical ideas and I don't want to do that. I guess I'm the only one with a problem as regards a pool of energy just lying around. :) Lee At 02:24 AM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 01:11 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >>At 03:49 PM 9/28/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>At 09:20 AM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>> >Dear Lee > >It is clear that you only respond to the individual text of the e-mail, and >do not follow up with suggested reading,or support documentation, that >would allow you to familiarize your self with the material or research, you >care to evaluate. In many of the letters you respond to here, you follow >this same procedure of failing to do your homework. A diligent member of >this group is quick to identify your lack of effort, and blatant dismissal >of basic scientific principles of the most reasonable nature. Perhaps, you >may be well served in hooking into a gossip column, or chat format, where >such practices are the norm, for you entertainment. > >Thank You > >TR Knudtson > > >TR > > >Hydrogen? A storage battery? Your thesis is impelling and grabs my >>attention, but if there is something there we should be able to dip a ladle >>into it and pull some out, or sense or measure it to some degree. >> >>I rebel only against metaphysics and circular reasoning, and I applaud >>hands on science and experimentation. >>> >>> >Dear Lee > >I am old too! >>> >>>Not a problem >>> >>>Dear Lee >>> >>>Thank you for taking the time to stop for another look! I like you think >>>that all science is of little value if not clearly understood by a normal >>>reasonable mind. >>> >>>But, like many 18th century researchers, I feel that the learning of >>>scientific principles should, to what-ever degree possible, be a mater of >>>personal experience. Until the last 20 years or so, this was the practice >>>of most universities. Remember lab class???? >>> >>>Now! >>> >>>All energy, that is manifest, expresses its' self in observable phenomenon. >>> We learn by doing or watching, more or less, observing. The folly arises >>>when we rely too heavily, on the math to describe nature. The math should >>>just point the way, not be an answer in itself! Pragmatically verifying, >>>mathematically predicted results, is what I call, "full circle" science. >>> >>>Now, to my work. >>> >>>I state that this new energy permeates every part of the universe! >>> >>>This energy is non manifest, but storable! >>> >>>It can be captured and quantified! >>> >>>It occupies space! >>> >>>It is non magnetic but can be expressed as electricity! >>> >>>Non thermal, yet can generate great heat. >>> >>>Non radioactive, yet can reduce radioactivity! >>> >>>Is neutral in reactance to water, yet can melt rock! >>> >>>Non kinetic, yet has resistance! >>> >>>And yes, it is in every other manifest of energy known! >>> >>>This leads me to call it "pre manifest energy" or "non-manifest energy" or >>>Pure Non-manifest Energy. >>> >>>PNE! >>> >>>Combustion of the suspension medium, "Hydroxy" results in a flame like >>>mantel, but with no radiant heat! >>> >>>In specific forms and pressures it is endothermic, while the same gas under >>>other specific pressures is exothermic. >>> >>>It can be stored and release in nearly infinite amounts of energy! >>> >>>Now what would you call it? >> > >> >>Lee >> >>>>I'm sorry, it is a problem with being old, wearing trifocals and trying to >>>>read things from a computer screen, when use to a book. The scrolling bit >>>>gets me. I apologize for my selectivity. >>>> >>>>I still have a question about Pure Energy though. I'm suffering through the >>>>inability to conceptualize Pure Energy just hanging around. >>>> >>>>It just seems to me, in my unenlightened and addlepatted condition, that >>>>energy is what we get out of something after something happens. >>>> >>>>But I guess that is what the Free Energy conversation is all about - some >>>>source of pure energy, a pool so to speak, that can be tapped. >>>> >>>>There may be "something" in the universe, or there may not be, but if there >>>>is something then to my mind, it will requires some action. Like striking a >>>>match, or interrupting the flow of water with a paddle, something to cause >>>>a reaction. >>>> >>>>Lee >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> at 02:55 AM, Lee Markland said: >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dear Lee, >>>>> >>>>>You seem to suffer from selective reading, in that you often miss the >point >>>>>by focusing in on one thing in a statement that is part of the discussion >>>>>but not the core issue. >>>>> >>>>>I simply state that I have worked in hydrogen, Hydrogen and Oxygen are >>>>>simply a medium where energy can be stored. Other than this fact, it has >>>>>little if anything to do with what I had written you about. Second you >>>>>subjected my comments previous conversations, to some how infer that I >>>>>thought space is full of hydrogen. >>>>> >>>>>None of this is the point. The energy is of what I speak. Non manifest, >>>>>PURE ENERGY. The medium is of minor import, but the existence of this >>>>>energy is. >>>>> >>>>>You say; >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of >>>>>>hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be >>>>>>sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its >>>>>>spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. >>>>>> >>>>>>In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth >>>>>>weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it >>>>>>and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square >>>>>>law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival >>>>>>speed and time at the neutral point. >>>>>> >>>>>>At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the >>>>>>gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft >towards >>>>>>the moon. >>>>>> >>>>>>If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations >>>>>>would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have >>>>>>got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. >>>>>> >>>>>>Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would >>>>>>introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And >>>>>>wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen >>>>>>molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of >>>>>>the gravitational force of the sun? >>>>>> >>>>>>The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its >>>>>>weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of >hydrogen >>>>>>is akin to oil floating on water. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In contrast with the force of gravity, the strength of the mystery >>>>>>>>>>force does not decline proportionally to the inverse square of a >space >>>>>>>>>>craft's distance from the Sun but at a constant (linear) rate; this >>>>>>>>>>argues against the force being a gravitational effect of the Sun. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Hmmm, smells like aether to me. (A slight drag was a >>>>>>>>>requirement for the aether to exist. Since they could detect >>>>>>>>>no drag, the aeither didn't exist) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-Charlie- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>That would be interesting, to obtain verifiable proof of the aether. Of >>>>>>>>course it would have to be verified independently using different >>>>>>>experiments. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Anyway Silvertooth has supposedly done that and the late Stephen >Marinov >>>>>>>>wrote a paper on it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Still in all, we can only specualte. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Aether, tired light, push gravity from outside the system, >>>>misconception of >>>>>>>>the doppler effect. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In fact it seems to me that it would be profitable drawing up a list of >>>>all >>>>>>>>possible causes for the "apparent" slowing of the spacecraft, >>>>regardless of >>>>>>>>whether or not the speculation fits within the framerwork of >>conventional >>>>>>>>physics. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Lee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I read your last post with great interest. I to have studdied the >>nature >>>>>>>od mater with reguard to higher states of energy. I have developed a >>>>>>>theory of energy mater states I call "Pure Non-manifest Energy" or PNE. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>This energy is hinter at in all manifest states due to conversion, ie, >>>>>>>kenitic, thermal, electromagnetic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>All these energied can be converted, back and forth with some losses, of >>>>>>>course. But these simple facts point the way to a nutral of >transitional >>>>>>>modle of energy that can be expressed in multiple forms. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>In my work with hydrogen I have captured this energy. I can measure it, >>>>>>>store it, and use it at will. Buy the way it occupies space, which then >>>>>>>theoretically outer space can be full of it. >>>>>> >>>>>>If outerspace was full of Hydrogen, so would innerspace be full of >>>>>>hydrogren. And although it is the lightest of elements, there would be >>>>>>sufficient molecules to constitute resistance, hence friction and drag. >>>>>> >>>>>>NASA would then have to factor this drag into the trajectories of its >>>>>>spacecraft. To my knowledged they don't do that. >>>>>> >>>>>>In fact in launching the Apollo Missions to the moon, the took the Earth >>>>>>weight of the entire craft after it fired its last rocket, jettisoned it >>>>>>and left orbit at 24,000 mph and then merely applied the inverse square >>>>>>law, the speed and weight of the Apollo craft, to compute it's arrival >>>>>>speed and time at the neutral point. >>>>>> >>>>>>At which point the craft had decelerated to some 2,200 mph and the >>>>>>gravitational pull of the moon took over, reacellerating the craft >towards >>>>>>the moon. >>>>>> >>>>>>If there had been any drag, from hydrogen molecules, their computations >>>>>>would have been extremely difficult and it is doubtful that we would have >>>>>>got a mission to the moon. Much less to Jupiter, Venus and Mars. >>>>>> >>>>>>Don't you think it is reasonable to expect that hyrdrogen molecules would >>>>>>introduce drag (friction) as a factor into interplanetary travel? And >>>>>>wouldn't it be also reasonable to expect that such dispersal of hydrogen >>>>>>molecules would actually be more concentrated towards the sun because of >>>>>>the gravitational force of the sun? >>>>>> >>>>>>The only reason hydrogren rises in the Earthian atmosphere is because its >>>>>>weight is less than the oxygen and nitrogen, thus the buoyance of >hydrogen >>>>>>is akin to oil floating on water. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Here is a url of one of my postings. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/hydroxy.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Please give me a read on this page >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>All the best >>>>>>> >>>>>>>TR Knudtson >>>>>>> >>>>>>>you can find much more on the web by Search; Browns' Gas >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I am one of the 7 original researchers on this project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 18:23:49 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA26197; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:22:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:22:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980930181542.00847e00@rockisland.com> X-Sender: markland@rockisland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:15:42 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Lee Markland Subject: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980929022404.00869e30@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"nTaw63.0.FP6.zaj4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6717 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential scientist once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are talking about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a student in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value that is given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only to be met with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me the subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible to a 6th grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the students how much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to them, so as not to confuse them. I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year physics students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of times. I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th grader, for they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on authority or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - attempt to embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 22:35:54 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA04626; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:33:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:33:48 -0700 From: trknute@earthlink.net Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980929074650.008663b0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: trknute@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:46:50 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wisdom and knowledge In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980930181542.00847e00@rockisland.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980929022404.00869e30@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980930131134.0083c280@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928154911.00863760@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980929092038.00934350@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980928040605.00863770@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980928011746.00a69b70@rockisland.com> <3.0.5.32.19980925060911.007c37c0@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980926005849.00a80c20@rockisland.com> <199809241327.JAA006.17@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> <3.0.5.32.19980923025544.00fee6c0@rockisland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5E9372.0.181.xGn4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6718 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:15 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote: > One think I will say about 6th graders, is that thay ask questions about the topic, and are quite focused, as most who will dare to ask questions read the material, and frame their questions corrctly. ON THE MATERIAL REVIEWED I mentioned this once before. But a very astute and credential scientist >once told me that if a person truly understood what it is they are talking >about, they could explain it in plain language understandable to a student >in the 6th grade. Meaning no appeal to jargon or authority. > >So I immediately asked him for a plain language explanation of the >methodology used by astronomers and physicists to obtain the value that is >given for the mass of the moon (.0129 that of Earth). > >Would you believe that he couldn't do such a simple thing. > >So I had to do volumes of research to come up with my own answer. > >I've thrown the question to a number of self styled experts, only to be met >with evasions, attempts at changing the subject, (including making me the >subject). I've received two answers both of them incomprehensible to a 6th >grader. One of them outrageously long, telling me to tell the students how >much of a genius Newton was, and then later telling me to lie to them, so >as not to confuse them. > >I even had a noted astronomer admit that he lies to first year physics >students "for their own good", so as not to confuse them. > >It's really simple though, two paragraphs, three at most, and the >embarassing thing (at least embarassing if one has integrityand is >perceptive) is that the word assumption has to be used a number of times. > >I don't think, however, that I would like to spring it on a 6th grader, for >they are still perceptive enough at that age, to notice flaws and ask >embarrassing questions, which can only be answered by calling on authority >or telling them to do some research, or the coup de grace - attempt to >embarass them in public, by denigration and innuendo. > >Lee > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 22:38:10 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA06325; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:36:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:36:32 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810010537.WAA20904@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer Resent-Message-ID: <"gRcBJ1.0.aY1.VJn4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6719 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jim and all, At 08:22 PM 9/30/98 +0800, you wrote: >If we make the iron path longer, we wouldn't have to make pulses that >short, right? Yes. > >What did you mean by "saturation of the core"? Do you mean that magnetic >field is so great in the core that it cannot be any greater because >that's the most the core can store? That the magnetic B field doesn't increase at the same rate as at a lower "exciting" H field. I don't think that the relative permeability falls below one, though. Permeability = 1= no ferromagnetic effects. The full load current and H field from the primary can be 20X the no load values in a typical transformer. If the secondary is added, that can be a 40X increase, so unless the initial H is low, the core will most likely saturate. It is the B field that appears to generate the voltages. > >If we use a rotating magnet instead of a coil at the primary, it might >be easier to understand. When the field direction changes and is >detected by the secondary coil, the coil produces a field opposite in >direction that travels back to the primary. Normally this would slow >down the rotation of the magnet. But when the rotation is fast enough >and iron path long enough, it does the opposite -- accelerating the >magnet -- and there should not be any problem like the ones you >described above (which I do not understand clearly). I hope now it is more clear. I quess the magnet would be accelerated at the "approach" at an increased amount with the delay, but the "drag" when leaving would also be increased. The highest frequency I've seen from an alternator with many magnet poles is about 100kHz, which would still require a much longer magnetic path length than easily produced, speaking for myself. -Dave > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 22:46:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19305; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810010537.WAA20767@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: ddameron@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: dave dameron Subject: Re: An idea about a special transformer Resent-Message-ID: <"EgLCW1.0.Zj4.-Rn4s"@mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6720 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ken and all, At 01:00 PM 9/30/98 EDT, you wrote: > You are certainly right , but by "continuous" they mean, among other >things, if you have a current source that is changing, at any instant of time >you have to be able to draw each of the magnetic field lines as a continuous >line that closes upon itself. And it starts as a small circle around the >current source in a plane perpendicular to the direction of the current >(moving outward -in free space- at the speed of light). All that is fairly >well accepted, I think. > For me problems arise when I try to apply that to something like a >toroidal transformer with windings on each side. With a change in primary >current how does the resultant field get uniformly distributed in the toroid, >especially if there is an opposing current in the secondary and the net field >in the core has to be the difference between the two? (I may be working on >this for a while :-) ). > > Ken Keasy@aol.com > Yes there seem to be 3 mechanisms in the transfer: 1. The magnetic field generated by the primary, and "radiated" 2. The magnetic domain switching, since the voltage is a function of the B field. 3. The transfer from the B field to the actual secondary. -Dave From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 30 23:53:52 1998 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA28786; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:48:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:48:09 -0700 From: mindtech@nor.com.au Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980930135641.006c5be8@pophost.nor.com.au> X-Sender: mindtech@pophost.nor.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:56:41 +1000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: schematic software advice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"V3No92.0.h17.fMo4s"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/6721 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am looking for schematic illustration software that will automatically change the connections between components when new ones are added. IOW redraw the entire circuit diagram, including repositioning of all previous components. I beleive the pin number connections need to only to be specified. Anyone have experience with this? I am aware of CircuitMaker, Protel and ORCAD. Do any have this capability? Peter Nielsen